HomeMy WebLinkAbout1999 06-15MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING JUNE 15, 1999
The regular meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 7:30 p.m. on
June 15, 1999 by Mayor Corrie.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Ron Anderson, Keith Bird, Glenn Bentley, Charlie Rountree.
OTHERS PRESENT: Mayor Bob Corrie, Will Berg, Bill Gigray, Bill Gordon, Gary Smith,
Kenny Bowers, Tom Kuntz, Shari Stiles.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor I move that we move public hearing item number 17 to the top of
the regular agenda.
Bird: I'll second that.
Corrie: Motion is made by Mr. Rountree second by Mr. Bird to rearrange the agenda to
have item number 17 which is a public hearing to be the first item. Any further
discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
17. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A
GOLF COURSE CLUBHOUSE, PARKING LOT AND TEMPORARY
CLUBHOUSE BY CHERRY LANE RECREATION INC -4200 TALAMORE
BLVD:
Corrie: I'll open the —
Bentley: Mr. Mayor, before we get into this, I need to make a disclosure. My sixteen
year old son works part time as a summer job at Cherry Lane Golf Course. I don't feel
that this will have any problems with me rendering decisions on this, but I leave it up to
the Council.
Rountree: The way that boy eats, you probably need him working.
Bird: I have no problem with it.
Corrie: Mr. Rountree?
Rountree: Not a problem.
Anderson: No concerns.
Corrie: Okay, you're in for the full duration tonight. Since this is a public hearing, we'll
first hear from the staff. Staff, is there any recommendations from the Planning and
Zoning to the City Council that staff has any problems with?
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, you have their recommendation dated, well the cover
letter is dated May 26, 1999. One of our recommendations was deleted by action of the
Planning and Zoning Commission and that was the need to have sidewalks constructed
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June 15, 1999
Page 2
adjacent to the current roadways and future roadways and they deleted that due to the
applicant's statement that that would be part of other subdivisions' requirements to do
the roads and the sidewalks. That maybe the case on the one road. That plat has not
been finalized yet. It's still in the process of some revision and it will be some time
before that roadway is completed. So the staff still would recommend that our original
comment that those sidewalks be constructed remain. I believe you have in your
packets, have you all received a set of these plans? They're a little more detailed than
what was seen by Planning and Zoning Commission. I did receive a letter today from
Johnson Land Surveying that you may also have a copy of that in your packets
indicating who their consultants would be and there was a little confusion about some of
the notes that were made on the plans we received. They referred to Stucco and then
when we received these plans, it was referring to a rigid foam that nobody was really
familiar with and I see that Mr. Johnson in his letter dated today does indicate it will be
drivot so if the Council has any concerns about any of the architectural details or I guess
this would be the forum to bring those up, so since it will be a city facility and owned by
the city.
Corrie: Any other staff comments? This is a public hearing. What I would like to do —
I'm sure, Wally are you going to be the representative for the — no? Okay, we'll have
the developer or the applicant for the conditional use permit to speak first. One
question that I have. We have received a petition to the Meridian City Council for
approval of the conditional use permit at Cherry Lane Recreation Association. Does
everyone have a copy of this thing? Would you like to have that put in this record?
Yost: Mr. Mayor I would.
Corrie: Okay. This is stating that the petitioners recommended this be based upon the
assumption that all phases of the conditional use permit, parking lot, recreation location
of the temporary clubhouse and completion of the permanent clubhouse will be
completed in the time frame described at the Planning and Zoning and they do
recommend that we accept that, so we'll make that part of the record then. So City
Clerk if you will do so.
Bird: Mr. Mayor, let's make sure that he identifies that these plans dated 5/18/99 with
no revisions are the plans we are talking about; is that not right?
Yost: I believe that's correct.
Bird: Okay.
Corrie: I'll have you identify yourself and I have one question for you.
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June 15, 1999
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Yost: Mr. Mayor, Councilmen, my name is James A. Yost, and I'm here tonight as a
spokesperson for Cherry Lane Recreation, Inc. I reside at 2638 N. Sea Cove, Meridian,
Idaho.
Corrie: Do you have any specific questions about the recommendations that was given
to us by the Planning and Zoning Commission? Have you seen those?
Yost: Mr. Mayor, I have.
Corrie: Do you have any particular questions on any of those?
Yost: Mr. Mayor and Councilmen, we have been questioned repeatedly for the last
couple of weeks on information. We're willing to supply whatever information was
requested by Planning and Zoning Commission or individuals and we've been trying to
do that. I have a different job that I work at most of the time has kept me busy, so I'm
not sure exactly what the status of those conditions are. The homeowners association
and the principals that I'm speaking for tonight approve of the Planning and Zoning
conditions. We will comply with whatever conditions on that parking lot that the city
requests and I'll go through that in my opening statements.
Corrie: Okay thank you.
Yost: As stated, Mr. Mayor and Councilmen, I'm here tonight to represent Cherry Lane
Recreation, Inc. The principals would seek your approval of the Planning and Zoning
Commission's recommendations and to approve the conditional use permit which
basically follows three basic categories. The first condition would be the completion of
the parking lot that exists there west of the current driving range off from Talamore. The
second condition or request would be the relocation of the temporary clubhouse from its
current location to a location west of the number two hole tee box area which is
adjacent to the proposed site of the new facility and thirdly, the ability by the principals
to apply for the necessary permits and conditions required to begin construction of the
new clubhouse facility and as stated earlier the applicants will agree to various
conditions that were imposed by Planning and Zoning Commission and expect to
comply with those conditions. With that objective, please allow me to further explain
that the intent, the plans, the information has never changed on behalf of the plaintiffs.
The recommendation suggestions and conditions requested by Planning and Zoning
and other members and individuals have been and will agree to be agreed to by the
plaintiffs. They're not trying to hold anything back. They're trying to present all the
information they have. It has been confusing at times for the plaintiffs. They may be a
bit unaccustomed to the regulatory process and the bureaucracy which it does serve a
purpose and is duly recognized. So there was a bit of confusion there. In an attempt to
clarify that and to provide the additional information that has been requested by various
individuals is the Cherry Lane Recreation, Inc. has employed the following folks for
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June 15, 1999
Page 4
structural engineering, they employed Staply Engineering. For mechanical, they've
employed Musgrove Engineering. For electrical, Taylor Engineering and for
landscaping, The Land Group. Civil Engineering Services are provided by Johnson
Engineering, but allow me to continue. There's been some issues and some
discussions about the shrubbery in the parking lot and the comments that it contained a
large spruce tree or some evergreen and there's no problem with removing that tree. I
think it's been removed in the plans at this time. Any and all changes that the city
wants on the landscaping and the vegetation of that parking lot will be complied with.
The landscape architect will work with you and the city folks, Planning and Zoning or the
City Engineer. We'll provide the proper vegetation and the other conditions for that
parking lot without exception. There are three issues that have come up dealing with
the new clubhouse that may clarify some of the information that's going around. First of
all the principals failed to fully understand that the complete plans architectural plans,
mechanical engineering components would be required at the Planning and Zoning
Commission. They thought that would perhaps come in the building permit side of the
thing after the conditional use permit was provided. So the request for information have
become more detailed so we have gone ahead and provided the proper engineering
and for structural design, mechanical design, those types of things now. But one of the
issues that came up was the issue about the stucco and on the original plans, we
decided they put just stucco. However when questions were asked, they provided a
more definite definition of a stucco like substance that is now used on Spurwing and
Banbury clubhouses and that is particularly called exterior insulation and finish systems.
It's a stucco type finish. If there's a problem with that, it can easily be resolved, but
think you'll find that for this area it's a particularly good construction material. Other
construction materials have been questioned or more information has been requested
by the principals is that the — dealt with the flooring materials for fire protection, two
sheets of 5/8 sheet rock was requested. The city wants or desires one inch of concrete.
There's no problem with the principals on doing that. If you have a preference over the
type of building materials that go into your building, the principals are very
accommodating as to how you want it done or how you want it constructed. We'll take
those things into consideration. But we need to know what you want if that is the issue,
and even thought they will construct the facility, you are deeply entitled to some
preferences that you may want to select and they will not be a big issue with the
principals. The final component questioned was the ventilation of the underground golf
cart storage area. We didn't — I think originally they didn't think that was going to be a
problem, but in lieu of the questions and concerns about that, we hired Musgrove
Engineering who have provided similar service engineering at Spurwing, Hillcrest and
Banbury where they provide the same type of ventilation services. We'll install that
same system. If that isn't appropriate you tell us what — if you have a preference on the
ventilation system, we will accommodate that request. In any event, on the construction
of the clubhouse, the parking lot and moving the temporary facility to the new location,
the Cherry Lane Recreation, Inc. will abide by all of the Idaho Codes, city and county
codes. We have no intention of taking any shortcuts or not complying with any of those
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June 15, 1999
Page 5
codes. It's a bit — it may have been a bit of a challenge to begin with, but I think the
principals are now geared up and ready to fulfill whatever requests may come of them
at this particular time. The financing has been arranged for this process and as agreed
to by the Planning and Zoning Commission report that after they receive their final
permits they will have a new clubhouse constructed within that six month requirement of
the Planning and Zoning Commission. There isn't — in conclusion the principals request
that tonight that if you have questions about the clubhouse structure in and of itself, that
there maybe some questions there that you're not comfortable with and we would
provide and work with you on any additional information, but tonight specifically we
request that at least you give the conditional use permit to finish the parking lot and
move the temporary facility. It seems to be in the way of some other building
arrangements in the area. So that we specifically request for tonight. I thank you for
your attention and I'll stand for questions Mr. Mayor and Councilmen.
Corrie: Any questions?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: I have none.
Corrie: Thank you. We'll take these in order of those who are in favor of approving the
conditional use permit here tonight. If you will limit it to about three minutes, your
comments, and then we'll have those who are objecting to it and then we'll have the last
again will be Mr. Yost if he's still here will answer any questions that might come up
during the testimony here tonight. So is there anybody here now that would like to
testify in favor of the conditional use permit that are on the Council's agenda. Yes, sir.
Grant: My name is Jim Grant. I reside at 3979 W. Harbor Point Drive in Meridian. My
wife and I are charter members of the Cherry Lane Golf Club Associations having joined
those groups in 1978, the first year of the Meridian Municipal nine hole Cherry Lane
Golf Course. We were pleased to see the second nine holes constructed and then
dedicated in September of 1997. Up to this point in time, golfers at Cherry Lane have
always operated from a temporary clubhouse a limited parking and a remote driving
range. The present application to build a permanent clubhouse and parking lot is
based on the originally planned site and is the logical next step now that 18 holes are
available. After the recent Planning and Zoning Commission public hearing and positive
response, we encourage the City Council to give a rapid approval to the application of
Cherry Lane Recreation, Inc. Naturally there should be some conditions placed on that
approval. The new parking lot probably should be completed prior to moving the
temporary clubhouse to the new site. A time limitation should be placed on completion
of the new clubhouse and then the removal of the temporary clubhouse. The City of
Meridian owns this land, the City of Meridian owns the golf course. Completion of the
permanent clubhouse and parking lot would be a great asset to the Meridian Municipal
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June 15, 1999
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Cherry Lane Golf Course. An asset also to the surrounding residential subdivisions.
believe time is of the essence and the City Council should not throw up roadblocks or
delays, but instead show a decisive effort to get this project approved and completed
and behind us. Thank you.
Corrie: Thank you, Jim. Any questions of Jim?
Bentley: I have none.
Corrie: Anyone else? Yes, sir.
Shelly: I'm a resident of N. Sea Cove Way 2566 and in my hands here I have a letter
that I'm authorized to read from the Lake at Cherry Lane Homeowners Association, Inc.
Corrie: Can I get your name one more time?
Shelly: James Shelly. I'll give you a copy of this for your records after I'm finished
reading it. This was dated June 15th, but Mayor and City Council, City of Meridian,
reference construction of the permanent clubhouse at the Cherry Lane Golf Course.
Dear Sirs, at a special meeting of the homeowners association held on May 13, 1999
the following motion was made from the floor. Be it resolved that the Lake at Cherry
Lane Homeowners Association hereby goes on record as approving the construction of
a permanent golf course at the Cherry Lane Golf Course. The motion was unanimously
carried. The president of the association was directed to prepare a letter to the
Meridian City Council expressing the association's feeling on this matter. The
secretary, who is myself, of the association was asked to read the letter into the record
at the meeting June 15th, 1999. Now our association right now has approximately 116
to 120 families. There was 80 families that were represented at that association's
meeting.
Corrie: One question. Okay, you said approval of the golf course clubhouse.
Shelly: Yes.
Corrie: Thank you.
Kingsford: Mr. Mayor, my name is Grant Kingsford. I currently reside at 4304 W. White
Ash Drive Meridian. I recognize that things change. I have been gone for three and a
half years and the applicant was not called the plaintiff I guess. It's a little bit frightening
for me to be here.
Corrie: I had the same concerns, Grant.
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June 15, 1999
Page 7
Rountree: You're always in trouble.
Kingsford: I just wanted to make a couple of comments with regard to the golf course
having been here since the city took it over in I guess 1978. After the second
(inaudible) Cherry Lane Rec. took it over. I was involved with it before that when Mr.
Lovan and I were on the golf committee and we received numerous phone calls at city
hall that people didn't want the city to operate a golf course and so at that time the
Mayor Don Storey said it would be a good idea if we could lease that rascal and so we
did have one person that was a little bit interested that never came forward. So Mr.
Lovan decided that he would do that to make sure that it worked and I think he had no
idea that he would still be trying to operate a nine hole golf course in 1997. In any event
we had the opportunity to expand the golf course. It's coming along I think fairly nicely
for the limited funds that we put into it, but it's a nice playable golf course. Mr. Lovan
also expected as all of us did that at the time that golf course was built that the city
would have a clubhouse for it. At the time it was originally conceived Leavett New
Pacific built the first nine holes, donated that to the city, and promised that we would
receive another nine holes completed and a golf course clubhouse as well. None of
that was forthcoming. As a result Mr. Lovan has never been able to operate a
clubhouse on the city's property. Now we have that opportunity. Finally the deeds are
completed and so forth and I would urge the City Council to move along posthaste to
see that that is completed. It's an opportunity that the city has to receive roughly a half
million dollar clubhouse at no expense to the city. I didn't have to strong arm Mr. Lovan
too hard to get him to agree to that. Just over about a 20 what period beating him
rather severely on some holes and losing to him on others, he come to the thinking that
it would be a good idea and I certainly think it would as well and hope you guys concur.
Thank you. Are there any questions because I do know it all.
Corrie: I'm finding, Grant, that Mayors don't know it all. Anyone else would like to
testify?
Margulieux: My name is Gordon Margulieux and I live at 2040 Interlachen Way. I'm
about 50 feet from the existing temporary clubhouse and actually I am in favor of the
new clubhouse but I would like to have the Council consider an option or restriction for
the new clubhouse. The current clubhouse isn't quite adequate for parties or anything
like that. Therefore they don't have a lot of parties. Sometimes they do and sometimes
they go late into the night. Sometimes past 12:00. For particular instance now there is
an ordinance part of the — I'm trying to think of the name of it but that does limit the time
that you can actually be making a lot of noise and it's 11:00 but this is in the middle of a
residential area. I've looked at the plans. There are no sound deadening materials they
are planning on using. They are planning on raising the clubhouse six feet above the
ground. My fence according to my covenants can't be above six feet, but their
clubhouse is going to be six feet above the ground. They will have the facilities for
banquets, for parties, for things that may make it go late into the night. This is a family
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June 15, 1999
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subdivision around there. There are kids that go to school. Chaparral is a year round
school. Tomorrow morning there will be kids going to Chaparral. If the weather is like it
is today and they decide that they want to open the doors to the clubhouse while they
have a live band or have a live band maybe not today because it's raining out there, but
have a live band out there. They can have it until 11:00. My kids don't stay up on
school nights until 11:00 but they would be forced to if the noise was loud enough and in
the past it has been. Of course we're only 50 feet. I can throw a golf ball from where
the clubhouse is proposed to be to the closest house on Harbor Point and it goes over
the top of the lake too so the lake will carry it and I don't about you but I've pulled up
next to a number of cars at stop lights where I can hear the music blaring with the
windows rolled up because it's not the music you hear, but you hear the beat. And
that's what we're going to hear at night at 11:00 and then they don't have to shut off
unless I call or somebody else calls and tells them that it's too noisy and I want to file a
complaint. That's the only way it will stop because they can stay open until the bar
closes and they do have a bar and I've been witness to bar fights outside of the existing
clubhouse. Now the clubhouse is going to be open later past the normal operating of
the — so I just — what my proposal is and it's a very simple one is that they limit outdoor
bands and music past 10:00. Now that's only one hour short of what is already allowed
for the sort of noise ordinance that they have right now. That's my proposal and I would
like you to think about it. Any questions? Thank you very much.
Santi: My name is Ron Santi. I live at 1503 Northgate Avenue. I'm the
secretary/treasurer of the Cherry Lane Golf Association. We have approximately 190
members right now, and our men's association has been growing because the golf
course is getting a lot better and I feel that the opinion of almost all of these golfers is
that we could have a very nice association with the approval of the City Council for the
new golf course so our recommendation is that you do approve this conditional use
permit. Thank you.
Cooper: Good evening. My name is Deleta Cooper. I'm one of the senior members of
Cherry Lane Golf Course. I'd like to address this that I have never heard any late
parties going on at the golf course. I play there almost every day. I play more games in
Idaho than any woman for the last three years. I'm also associated in helping Jennifer
and my husband in the junior. We have a great junior program and if you've got people
to come tomorrow to support your community you have to support the kids so they won't
get in trouble. We keep them very, very busy and they're good kids. I would like you to
approve all the bills that are on the agenda tonight for the clubhouse. Thank you.
Lovan-Holloway: Mayor, Councilmen, my name is Jennifer Lovan-Holloway. I am the
general manager of the Cherry Lane Recreation and I would like it just to be stated on
record I'm not sure what the gentleman's name was that was here earlier. It is in our
lease agreement with the city that we have to close the golf course at 11:00 so we
cannot keep our hours until 2:00. The party that he was referring to it is on public
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June 15, 1999
Page 9
record at the police department that it was shut down at 10:28 so if there is any question
to that, it will be on record for you to look at. Thank you.
Corrie: Anyone else?
Parton: Mayor, Councilmen, I don't have any golf course affiliation here. My name is
Ross Parton. I live at 4219 W. Plumrose here in Meridian. I'm a recent resident here to
Meridian and I just wanted to encourage you to approve this application as it's been
submitted based on the fact that I consider this a tremendous asset to the city and to
the residents of this community. Thank you.
Corrie: Anyone else?
Johnson: Dick Johnson 9225 Chinden Boulevard. I'm the surveyor and designer on
the project. We in earlier testimony stated we have no problems with the conditions as
set forth with Planning and Zoning and we want to affirm that. We don't have any
problems whatsoever. We'll work with Planning and Zoning in any way and the Council
in any way which you require for us to construct this clubhouse, the parking lot and
move the temporary clubhouse. And I'm here to answer any questions you may have.
Bird: I have none.
Johnson: Thank you.
Corrie: Anyone else want to testify in favor? Is there anyone here who would like to
testify against the conditional use permit?
McRae: My name is Russ McRae. I reside at 3757 W. Harbor Point. I haven't been a
party to some of the previous proceedings. Is there a time frame set on the construction
of the permanent clubhouse?
Corrie: That will be discussed tonight.
McRae: Okay, in my points I have two concerns. One is that is the utilization of Harbor
Point as a feeder for the clubhouse? Harbor Point to my knowledge is not designed as
an arterial feeder for the number of parking spaces currently designated in this parking
lot and certainly not with the numbers that are designated for the future. I think that's an
exceptional and a dangerous load for strictly a residential driveway in that location.
Secondarily, I do not oppose this project. I simply ask for reason to take place within it.
The second component of that being the timely construction of a permanent clubhouse
and maybe first and foremost that no temporary clubhouse be allowed until a permanent
one is set. And the current clubhouse was a temporary clubhouse which as we've
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June 15, 1999
Page 10
heard tonight is a 21 year project and I think what we need to see is a permanent site
there not another 21 years of temporary clubhouse.
Corrie: One question I have. What are they going to do for six months while there's
construction going on? I don't think that a pickup with a bathroom in the back end of it
and a cash register is going to make it and there's a lot of people who have paid money
to play out there and we need something.
McRae: They have a clubhouse now. That will do.
Corrie: All right.
McRae: I mean you've already got a clubhouse that servicing. Let them do 18 holes
with this clubhouse then that apparently met with your approval previously. I don't
understand your objection.
Bentley: The problem is with a temporary clubhouse, there's construction going on.
That land doesn't belong to the city. It belongs to Steiner and they're ready to build on
that lot is why the temporary clubhouse needs to be moved.
McRae: Well that would appear to be a timing problem. But not one to go on the
backs of approving a project with an untimely time frame in itself. I don't think that's for
us to just do another bandage on what needs to accomplish.
Bird: I think in the Planning and Zoning Recommendation on 1.20, which they have
agreed to go to, the temporary clubhouse shall be in use for a period not to exceed six
months. So the existing one would only be moved down there for six months and at
that time the new one would be up and running.
McRae: Thank you, Mr. Bird and that's why I asked the question initially and I didn't
receive an answer. You didn't tell me it was not going to be another 21 years.
Corrie: I'm sorry I misunderstood you.
McRae: So I certainly withdraw my concern about that now knowing this piece of data.
But yes a timely construction which is required of any other building built within the city
would seem to be prudent. Any other questions? I do have a very genuine concern
about Harbor Point being used, because that would be used from several different traffic
patterns I feel in the current design and it's not designed to handle that kind of traffic.
People find a shortcut to some place and then that's it.
Corrie: Thank you. Anyone else?
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June 15, 1999
Page 11
Gasaway: My name is Ellen Gasaway. I live at 1950 Incline Way and I just have a
question because I was at Planning and Zoning's and they said six months, but I
thought that two of those months was for this approval that we're having like tonight and
that the clubhouse would be built in four months. Am I wrong on that?
Corrie: Well actually I think if we gave them six months, it would probably be until
January 1 st. That would be the construction time. What the engineers have told us it
takes about 30 days for concrete to set and be ready to do. The rest of it can go up
pretty fast. They do have the different structural, mechanical, electrical and landscape
engineers that are going to be following the procedures here and that was one of my
main thoughts was I want to make sure of the protection of the golf course and also the
houses around and also for Wally to make sure that everything is correct and as far as
mechanical and electrical and all that by the engineering so I'm sure they will set a limit
on how long the clubhouse. I can't say, I don't vote, but I think that that's probably what
it would come out at.
Gasaway: Will there also be some kind of a penalty clause in there that if it's not
completed?
Corrie: It's possible. Again I can't get in their heads, but they may.
Gasaway: I'd like to see that aspect because since 1982 we've had a temporary and I
think it's long past — 20 years. Thank you.
Corrie: Anyone else?
Yost: My name is Eva Gay Yost and I reside at 2638 N. Sea Cove Way. One of the
things that I think that everybody has neglected to mention because we're fairly new in
this area. We've lived here less than two years. We're from Boise and so we didn't
really know too much about the golf course or what had gone on here, but I've heard so
many people talk about this 21 year lapse that Wally should have had this clubhouse
built. I've read some minutes from 1978 where Wally was asked a specific question,
how long do you think it would be following the completion of the second nine holes of
the golf course before you would have the clubhouse completed and he said very
plainly within two years. That will be September of 1999. Now I think we're pretty
close on that time frame and I don't think that we need to expect that it's going to be
another 21 years before the clubhouse is finished. There are some things that have to
be gone through here obviously with permits and so forth, but my theory is let's get on
with it, let's get going and not just sit here and nit pick about what should have
happened 21 years ago. It would be very difficult to justify a clubhouse and all the
amenities with a nine hole golf course. It's very difficult. The other thing about Harbor
Point is that Talamore is suppose to be the entrance into the golf course. It's been
designed and set up that way. There are no houses facing Talamore and I don't know
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June 15, 1999
Page 12
what the concern is so much about Harbor Point because Harbor Point is the same size
as Interlachen and Interlachen has entertained this traffic for the last how ever many
years it's been there, so that seems to have worked out just fine. So the way that it is
set up with Black Cat and Talamore as being the designed entrance to the golf course
and my understanding was that the sign would indicate that then I don't think that all the
traffic is going to come from Ten Mile through Harbor Point to get to the golf course
because it's not going to be indicated that way, and a lot of people are not going to
know how to wind their way through the subdivision anyhow and one last thing I just
wanted to mention about the petitions that were turned in. There were approximately
266 names on those petitions and I would appreciate it if that number would be entered
into the record.
Bird: Just did.
Corrie: Any questions? Thank you. Any other comments? I want to thank everybody
for keeping it under three minutes. You're a wonderful group. Mr. Yost, do you want to
have anything to say on the as far as the one we had the utilization of Harbor Point as a
feeder for cars as adequate of what was just said by — is that your husband? See,
Grant, we don't know everything and I wasn't about to marry you here in this chamber
tonight. Mr. Yost.
Yost: Mr. Mayor, Councilmen, I defer to my wife.
Corrie: Good point.
Yost: Mr. Mayor and Councilmen, one issue that could be clarified. I stated previously
that financial arrangements had been secured and we will provide a six months letter of
credit for the complete construction costs so that this will be and we'll forfeit that if that is
not done, so we will secure — we'll post a letter of credit for the entire construction
amount. Financing has been secured.
Corrie: Thank you.
Bird: I got one question. You have no problem with the six months? And when does
the six months start? If it takes six weeks to get through our planning to get a permit.
Yost: Mr. Mayor, Councilmen, I'll trust your fairness on this issue. At the best, our folks
are telling us they can construct the facility in four months. If it takes two months for you
to give us a final permits to go ahead, it's cutting it pretty close, we'll trust on your
fairness on that thing. We think we can complete it in six months. We'd like to have it
finished by the first of the year. At least four months for the construction of the facility.
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 13
Corrie: I think probably one of the things that would speed it up a lot is to make sure all
those plans get into the building department and I think with the different engineering
companies it's going to be a lot faster and a lot of questions are going to be taken care
of here, so the quicker they get into the building department and approved then they
can go ahead with the building on that. Anybody else questions? At this point having a
public hearing, I'll entertain a motion if you would like. Mr. Rountree?
Rountree: I have some questions for staff. Shari, on the Planning and Zoning
Recommendations item 1.20, it's been mentioned here tonight that clause to me is
unclear. I've worked for the last two years with Wally on issues that are unclear, trying
to get them resolved with developers and the city and I think we've made some head
way but I think he needs some more dumped on him. The period of six months. We
need to establish when that starts. Was there — and there was considerable discussion
with Planning and Zoning. Does staff have a recommendation of when the timing might
start the countdown on this six months?
Stiles: Well I think with Council's action tonight, if they have a favorable
recommendation, the Findings would need to be prepared. I would that with your action
tonight, they could immediately get those plans ready to be submitted or hopefully they
could do that within the three weeks it will be before the Findings are prepared and
maybe we should make it more specific that plans be submitted for building permit
within three weeks. Is that workable?
(Inaudible)
Johnson: I can't speak for the other engineers that were retained to do the structural,
mechanical and electrical. I do know a couple of them said it would be two to three
weeks out before they would be in full operation on the project. They wanted time to
review the plans that we've been given by the architect and by my design plans and
then they would proceed on. It may take them (End of Tape)
Johnson: ...you know to have everything in place to turn into you as far as the actual
building plans on the clubhouse. As far as on the temporary structure, moving it over,
the parking lot, a couple of weeks is more than ample time for that.
Bird: Mr. Mayor would you have him identify himself for the record this time.
Johnson: Dick Johnson.
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, I think then we would ask them to get the plans in within
one month from today and maybe give them a total of seven months for the permanent
structure to be complete. That would a total of eight months, but maybe it would a — I
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 14
would hate to have it so restrictive that six months came down and somebody says they
are in violation of their conditional use permit and we've got another problem.
Corrie: I think probably if they're willing to — if they're going to do it I mean they're
setting up a bond here. If they don't we would so I don't you know we don't want to
restrict them to the point like you say that they're in violation but we do need some kind
of a guideline for them to get it done.
Gigray: Mr. Mayor and members of the Council for purposes of discussion is I see the
recommendation to the City Council from Planning and Zoning, this request for
conditional use permit not only for the construction of the new clubhouse, but — excuse
me. Not only for the construction of the new clubhouse but also for the temporary
clubhouse at this new location. One of the things if you choose to include as a condition
a little clarification of 1.20 could be that the six month period would start to commence
at the time the temporary clubhouse was moved to the new location under this
conditional use permit which probably I don't know when that would be, but that would
probably put you pretty close to the first of the year when that six month period would
start to commence.
Corrie: Mr. Johnson, when is the temporary have to have moved before they knock it
down? They're so close now out there?
Johnson: The 30th of the month is final. That's my understanding. Originally it was set
for the 25th. There's some talk of maybe the 30th, but the 25th is the court date.
Corrie: So they're pretty well limiting themselves on that. Okay.
Johnson: That's correct.
Corrie: Mr. Rountree, you still have the floor.
Rountree: Well let me get my notes taken here. The other point in that paragraph talks
about and I've heard what the applicant is saying, but it doesn't say that in this point. It
just says a letter of credit or cash should be received by the city as a guarantee for
completion of the permanent. Should it state in there the amount?
Stiles: We have received some quotes from them. They're not complete, but they've
knocked around the half million dollar price. I don't know —
Rountree: I'm not worried about the dollars and cents, but some verbiage in there to the
value of the building or some kind of an explanation of what that means.
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 15
Stiles: I would hope that the half million dollars would guarantee that. The quotes that I
did see and what I added up was roughly $300,000. That didn't include landscaping
and irrigation system or windows, but it did include restaurant equipment, sprinklers,
framing, roofing, the parking lot.
Johnson: If I may, we're waiting on an appraisal right now which will establish the value
of the structure.
Rountree: Okay, thanks.
Stiles: That would be great.
Rountree: Shari, you also had a comment about sidewalks. Would you direct me to the
staff comment, is it staff comment number 8 that you wanted reinserted in the
recommendations of P & Z?
Stiles: Under general, it would be under 8. We got a little more specific under site
specific comments number 7. Those roadways are not built at this time. I'm a little
concerned also that we don't have any comments from Ada County Highway District,
but I would think in order to complete the parking lot satisfactorily they should have the
sidewalks completed at the same time.
Johnson: If I may again, we have met with Ada County Highway District in session,
have been approved. The parking lot itself has been approved. The sidewalks were a
portion of an additional subdivision going in and at that time, they said we would not be
putting in the sidewalks. The subdivision I believe it's number eight would be
responsible for that.
Stiles: I don't believe that will be completed yet this year. It shows existing streetlights.
I was wondering —
Johnson: Talamore is constructed.
Stiles: It's all totally constructed with curb, gutter sidewalk.
Johnson: Curb, gutter, sidewalk, island streetlights, everything.
Stiles: So Harbor Point Drive is the only side —
Johnson: Is the side in question.
Stiles: Okay. And it would be part of Lakes at Cherry Lane No. 8. There is a little bit of
a hang up on that project. I'm not sure when that will be completed. I guess if Ada
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 16
County Highway District thinks you can complete the parking lot and you can complete
the landscaping to our satisfaction without a sidewalk, I think that would be a little
difficult to do though.
Johnson: Well if we have to do it, we will do it.
Stiles: Okay sounds good.
Johnson: We have met with the developer and he has told us that we can enter into an
agreement with him if we are required to do that. We would be reimbursed.
Stiles: Great.
Johnson: It's your pleasure.
Rountree: Thank you Shari.
Johnson: I do have one question if I may and that's getting back to tonight. Should we
get approval, when can we submit and start on the parking lot and move the temporary
clubhouse?
Corrie: Well we have to do Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law yet to approve
those, but —
Stiles: I would think they could start on getting those calculations done. At least get
them in the cue so that Brad Watson can review your drainage. How soon can the Land
Group get their landscape plan completed?
Johnson: We're hoping within a week on that. As far as the stuff for Brad, it's sitting on
the desk so it's ready to go.
Stiles: Okay, so basically you just need the landscape plan and the drainage
calculations for Brad to be able to review so that you can get started on that.
Johnson: Correct.
Stiles: As soon as you can get it in, we can at least start reviewing it.
Johnson: Thank you.
Rountree: That's it Mr. Mayor, thank you.
Corrie: Any questions, comments?
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 17
1:3woMII U-3Aitm
Corrie: All right, I'll entertain a motion to close the public hearing.
Bentley: So moved.
Rountree: Second.
Corrie: Motion made and second to close the public hearing. All those in favor of the
motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Corrie: Discussion?
Rountree: Mr. Mayor, given the testimony and the unclear issues as it relates to the
move, the timing of the move, and the amount of potential guarantee for the completion
of that move, and staff's concern for the sidewalk, I would suggest some modifications
to the conditions that Planning and Zoning provided and those would be adding staff
comments specific comment number 7 into the recommendations which would be 1.34
and modifying the recommendation 1.20 with language to the effect that the temporary
clubhouse shall be used for a period not to exceed — I'm just going to put in seven
months for discussion from the date of the physical moving of the current temporary
clubhouse. Prior to moving the temporary clubhouse, a letter of credit or cash in the
amount of the appraised value of the new clubhouse will be received by the City of
Meridian as a guarantee for completion of the permanent clubhouse and parking lot. I
have no other suggestions in terms of corrections or additions.
Bird: Mr. Mayor, Charlie, I don't agree with the appraised value because I don't think
anybody is going to go out and give them an appraisal on it.
Rountree: It's my understanding from Mr. Johnson that they're in the process of getting
an appraisal on the —
Bird: An appraised value or a cost estimate?
(Inaudible)
Corrie: Hang on folks. We got a dilemma here. Do you want — we'll have to reopen the
public hearing to hear any more testimony? Can you agree on something between
your Council?
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 18
Bird: How are we going to you know appraised value means one of us are going to hire
an appraiser to go out and appraise it before we get a —
Rountree: How do you get financing on something like this without —
Bird: Well the financing don't have nothing to do with the appraisal. I mean if they got
the financing. They don't have to have an appraisal. They got a cost estimate, but
don't think they have an official appraisal.
Rountree: Cost of construction.
Bird: Yeah. I just think we —
Rountree: Give me a better word.
Bird: I'm trying to think of one, Charlie. I don't like appraisal, but —
Rountree: Mr. Mayor maybe Mr. Gigray has some verbiage that would hold up in court.
Gigray: Given the evidence presented at the hearing which you have to go from,
mean there was a figure of a half million and I didn't hear any objection on the part of
the applicant to that figure which the staff felt I think covered what they saw in the
information that they had. I guess you could leave it nebulous that it would be subject to
an amount subject to the approval of the Planning and Zoning Administrator and then I
guess if they get a hiatus over whether that approval is appropriate or not, then the
applicant could come back to the City Council and seek an amendment of that
condition. I think you could go either of those two ways.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor, Mr. Bird, in the amount not to exceed one half million dollars.
Bird: That's fine with me.
Corrie: That puts a figure to it. Any other comments on the changes or additions to the
recommendation of the Planning and Zoning?
Gigray: Mr. Mayor just a point of question. Councilman Rountree with your proposal,
would we substitute staff comment number 7 for the recommendation of Planning and
Zoning at 1.8 because it references a five foot sidewalk.
Rountree: It references the sidewalk, excuse me Mr. Mayor. It references the sidewalk
but does not name the street specifically as number 7 does, so —
Gigray: Right with your permission I'll probably put those together.
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 19
Rountree: That would be fine.
Corrie: Any further discussion? Hearing, none, I'll entertain a motion to have the
attorney draw up the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law.
Anderson: So moved.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: It's been moved by Mr. Anderson second by Mr. Bird to have the attorney draw
up the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law and bring them back to us on July 6th
We're at the 15th, and then July 6th. Any further discussion?
Rountree: Mr. Rountree, am I to assume that that motion includes the suggested
changes that were discussed? Okay, thank you.
Bird: Mr. Mayor, will this allow them to move the temporary over there by the 30t"?
Gigray: Point of information. In light of Councilman Bird's question, it would be my
advice that one of the purposes for which we sought the conditional use permit in light
of the history of this particular facility and the need to get a conditional use permit under
existing ordinances part of that is to allow the moving of this temporary structure so my
advice to the Council would be no, they could not move that until an order was signed
granting the permit. If this is a major problem then the Council should consider having a
special meeting to adopt those Findings. We can prepare them for you for your
consideration at an earlier meeting, but I wouldn't recommend that be allowed until an
order was signed.
Bird: That's what I wanted to clear up.
Corrie: Mr. Rountree when are you going to have your planning meeting? We could
have a special meeting first and then if you wanted to on that combine the two of them.
Rountree: We could do it on the 22nd. That would be the normal time.
Bentley: Mr. Mayor, I believe both myself and I think Mr. Anderson are out of town that
whole week. You'll be back? Okay, I'll be gone.
Rountree: We can do it on the 22nd
Bird: We need to do it early enough to give them time to get the arrangements made to
get that moved out. That isn't an overnight move.
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 20
Corrie: Based on Mr. Johnson's reply here, they have to be at least by the 30th so if we
had it on the meeting on the 22nd and approved the Findings of Facts that would give
them a week and a day. I can't open the public hearing, but does that sound okay?
mean it's kind of stupid what I'm asking you, but —
Bird: Mr. Mayor, let me ask a question. Is there any way that we can approve the
removal of the temporary at this meeting without doing that? I think there is. I don't
know how, but I think there is.
Rountree: We're always open for a good story Mr. Bird.
Corrie: I know the Council can do just about anything they want to within reason and
the law, but is there a way we can do that?
Gigray: Mr. Mayor and members of the Council my advice would be not to allow it until
the order is signed because as part and parcel of the whole process and I think you
impune your own process by doing it without those steps. That's my advice. Now
whether you follow it or not will be up to you. My suggestion is also if there is a need,
we will try to accommodate the need by preparing these Findings as soon as possible
and if you wanted to have a special meeting even sooner than the 22nd, we would try to
do that for you.
Corrie: Well with all the activity with Dairy Days going on, it would be a Monday or a
Tuesday so one day I don't think is going to make a big difference there. The testimony
is they can do it. Glenn will be gone. You're going to be gone? Well that takes care of
that.
Gigray: Well my advice also is that they could take whatever necessary steps they
need in the meantime and the staff could process whatever other permits knowing that
these findings will be signed so everything is in place by the 22nd. But we can have
them ready for you by the 22nd
Rountree: Is it possible to have the order as it relates to the move by tomorrow?
Gigray: It's all together so it's all going to be done at one point.
Bentley: I think what he's asking is what are you doing tonight?
Gigray: You set the meeting. We just have to meet your request.
Bird: Does it all have to be under one order?
Gigray: It's more work — it will all be done in one —
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 21
Rountree: Can we meet the notice requirements?
Gigray: Well you're going to have to call a special meeting and then we're under a 24
hour notice provision under the open meeting law.
Bird: Mr. Mayor, if we had it the 22nd, there's no reason then they can't be getting ready
to go and move in. When we pass it the 22nd, what do they have to do then to be
allowed to move the temporary? Anything from Planning and Zoning?
Stiles: Wasn't the parking lot going to be built first?
Bird: Yes.
Stiles: Well they won't have that done by the 22nd
Bird: You're right. Forgot about the parking lot.
Corrie: Okay, I've been told we need to maybe open up the hearing once more just for
a couple of comments and I think that that's a pretty good idea, so if I could have a
motion to do that.
Bird: I pull my second.
Bentley: We need to remove the —
Corrie: We need to remove the motion, right?
Bird: I remove my second.
Corrie: Okay motion has been removed. The second (inaudible).
Rountree: Mr. Mayor, I move that we reopen the hearing for item number 1.
Bentley: Second.
Corrie: Motion made and second that we reopen the hearing for comments on item
number one. Any further comments? All in favor say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Corrie: For clarification who wants to be first on this? Dick?
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 22
Johnson: My name is Dick Johnson. I heard something about the 22nd. It will be fine.
Corrie: 22nd, the parking lot and the whole thing?
Johnson: We'll certainly be trying. That's a lot of work between now and then.
Corrie: We want it done right.
Johnson: Right, it's almost impossible. We need to get our plans approved through
Public Works. I can't swear that the — promise you that the landscape plan would be
done by that time, but the landscape is part of the parking lot and you know we will have
landscape according to the city's wishes. It's going to be really tough to get a parking
lot in there, the underground in and move the structure.
Bentley: Mr. Mayor, question for Shari. Your comments on what Mr. Johnson has to
say.
Stiles: I'm sorry Mr. Campbell was interrupting my listening.
Johnson: I said I'd be Superman.
Stiles: The 22nd would be super?
Johnson: I don't feel that it will work, but we will certainly try to accomplish this on that
schedule. That's not practical.
Corrie: I don't think it's going to get through in time. I really don't.
Stiles: Obviously you're not going to be able to move it by the 22nd. Right?
Bird: No, they got until the 30th. Just a second.
Stiles: The parking lot is not going to be constructed. The parking lot will take two
weeks to construct.
Johnson: Once we have approval, we're expecting a week yes from the time we start
our underground footing and the storm drainage system and get the sleeves in under
the driveways and get leveling courses on. First we have to get the engineer's
approval.
Bird: Mr. Mayor, --
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 23
Corrie: Dick can I have you — this is not very good, but can I have you step aside just a
second. I think we might have something here that you have to tell us Doug.
Campbell: I really didn't want to do this, but here I am. I think what we need —
Bird: Identify yourself.
Campbell: My name is Doug Campbell, address 4085 W. Ustick, Meridian, 83642. 1
think where we have to direct this thing is have the Council go ahead and have that
special meeting on the 22nd so we have the order to when the parking lot is completed,
if it's the 1 st, the 2nd, the 3rd, we can move it. We're flexible. We can — we don't have to
say Wally we're going to tear down the trailer on the 30th, but we want to go ahead and
get the 22nd get the approval and then we'll start scheduling and get this trailer and like
say it's probably going to take a week or two weeks to get approval and probably two
weeks to build the parking lot. At least we're taking the right direction and we're not
waiting until the facts and findings are approved on the 6th and then start it from there.
At least this thing is working simultaneously.
Corrie: As long as it's done right is what I think we're concerned about. Everybody
here is concerned that it's done right.
Campbell: I'm not hiring, Steiner is not, but Wally will be hiring the contractors and put
in specifications.
Corrie: Okay. Let me ask a question to Council. Is everybody but Glenn going to be
here the 22nd .
Bird: Yes.
Corrie: Okay so we will have a quorum then.
Bird: I've got a question for Gary. On the parking lot Gary, why can't they start the
underground and stuff now if you can approve the thing before the 22nd? If Brad can
get the plans approved if the plans have been turned in, submitted, complete?
(Inaudible)
Bird: I understood they were. Have the plans not been turned in? I understood from
Mr. Johnson they had.
Smith: Councilman, I don't know.
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 24
Johnson: Preliminary plans are turned in, the final draft was presented to him today
about 3:00. They are still stamped preliminary until after this meeting at which time we
would take the preliminary stamp and sign seal them by the engineer and deliver them
sometime tomorrow morning.
Bird: Can some of the preliminary work be done for the underground and stuff on that?
Smith: By preliminary I don't know what you mean.
Bird: I don't either. No, what I mean is can't you start putting the underground drainage
and stuff in, getting the compaction down and stuff like that?
Smith: That's part of the plans. I mean that's going to be part of the approval is the
sizing of the drainage beds and sizing of the piping and so forth. That's part of the
approvals.
Bird: It's the same plans we have then which we are approving now. All we're asking
for is Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law and that's what we're going to pass, but
the plans aren't going to change. They've met all this staff things already so why can't
you start doing the preliminary work out there if the plans meet our Public Works
specifications?
Smith: Well I guess as soon as we can review the plans, yes.
Bird: Okay.
Corrie: But we don't have the plans in yet.
Bird: You will have them tomorrow morning.
Johnson: We will have them tomorrow morning. I've been working with Brad all along
on this. We gave him what he and I think are the final draft plans today, so that we can
move along on this. According to Brad, it's not going to be a long time out before he
gets them approved. It could be you know tomorrow afternoon. All the calculations
have been done, checked, everything over the period of the last two or three, four
weeks.
Corrie: It sounds like we could go ahead and do it the 22nd Council have a special
meeting, and with what Mr. Campbell said they can go a little longer whatever the case
may be and that will still give you time to do your parking lot. That gives our staff some
time. I don't want to shove it down their throat. So it's going to be done right. I'm sure
everybody wants it done right so is that all right Gary I mean as long as you have the
time.
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 25
Smith: We can move ahead as fast as we can on the drainage part, but we're still going
to have to have a completed site plan with the landscaping and everything else that's
required for that. Whatever Shari's requirements are is going to have to be part of the
site plan approval. I guess they could start on the subsurface works as soon as we
have it approved, as soon as approve what they have. I mean I understand the
necessity for moving as fast as we can. But it always seems like every time we move
fast, we get tripped up some place. We'll process it as quick as we can.
Corrie: Was there anybody else that had information for us that wanted to — Wally you
have anything you want to say I mean you don't have to, but I think we're going on the
right road here and getting things done. We're just trying to find out the dates and get
everything put together with staff. Thank you.
Bentley: I move we close the public hearing.
Bird: I second it.
Corrie: Motion made and second to close the public hearing, all in favor say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Corrie: Now, do we want to have that meeting the 22nd then and go ahead with that?
Okay, I'll entertain a motion.
Bird: Are you going to add that to your existing motion? Mr. Anderson?
(Inaudible)
Rountree: Mr. Mayor I move that we instruct the city attorney to prepare Findings of
Fact and Conclusions of Law and Order of Decision to include the recommendations
from the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission with changes on item 1.20 as
discussed previously and the combining of staff's specific comment 7 with item 1.8, and
that upon completion of the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law that the city hold a
special meeting for consideration of those on June 22nd at 7:30 p.m.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Rountree and second by Mr. Bird to have the attorney draw
up the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law with the recommendations and
changes as stated in the discussion and hold a special meeting to June 22nd at 7:30
p.m. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion say aye.
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 26
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Corrie: So we'll be back the 22nd at 7:30 and we'll sign the rest of it.
Bentley: Mr. Mayor I move we take a ten minute break.
Bird: I second that.
Corrie: Motion made and second to break. All those in favor say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
(TEN MINUTE RECESS WAS TAKEN)
1. TABLED 6/1//99: FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW:
REQUEST FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A CHILDCARE FACILITY
LICENSED FOR 50 CHILDREN BY KATHLEEN & WENDELL LAWRENCE -
SOUTH OF PINE STREET, NORTH OF HWY 30/FRANKLIN ROAD, ON
LINDER ROAD:
Berg: Mr. Mayor and members of the Council the development agreement was signed
and recorded. The annexation ordinance was put in the paper and sent to the
appropriate agencies and this is the last step for the conditional use to be approved.
Corrie: Okay, thank you. Council, you have the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of
Law for the conditional use permit.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor I move that we approve the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of
Law and Order of Decision approving the conditional use permit.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Rountree second by Mr. Bird to approve the Findings of
Fact and Conclusions of Law for this request. Any further discussion? Hearing none,
roll call vote.
ROLL CALL VOTE: ROUNTREE, YEA. ANDERSON, YEA. BENTLEY, YEA. BIRD,
YEA.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL YEAS.
2. TABLED 6/1/99: DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT FOR HARTFORD
SUBDIVISION:
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 27
Corrie: The development agreement has been signed, is that correct Mr. Clerk?
Berg: Mr. Mayor and members of the Council, yes, I have a signed development
agreement by the property owners.
Corrie: Okay do we have a resolution number for this one?
Berg: Yes, Mr. Mayor and members of the Council, resolution number 235.
Corrie: The resolution for the development agreement for Hartford Subdivision
resolution #235.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor I move that we approve the development agreement for Hartford
Subdivision, authorize the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to attest.
Bentley: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Rountree second by Mr. Bentley to approve the
development agreement and the resolution #235 and they Mayor to sign and the City
Clerk to attest. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion
=-in-W
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
3. TABLED 6/1/99: ORDINANCE #828 - ANNEXATION AND ZONING OF
HARTFORD SUBDIVISION:
Corrie: Mr. Clerk, if you would read ordinance number — what would this ordinance be
numbered?
Berg: Mr. Mayor, members of the Council, ordinance #828.
Corrie: Would you read Ordinance #828 by title only?
Berg: (ORDINANCE #828 WAS READ BY TITLE ONLY)
Bentley: Mr. Mayor I move we approve Ordinance #828 with suspension of rules.
Bird: Second.
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 28
Corrie: Is there anybody from the audience who would like to Ordinance #828 read in
its entirety? Motion made by Mr. Bentley second by Mr. Bird to approve Ordinance
#828 with suspension of rules. Any further discussion? Hearing none, roll call vote.
ROLL CALL VOTE: ROUNTREE, YEA. ANDERSON, YEA. BENTLEY, YEA. BIRD,
YEA.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL YEAS.
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5. ANNEXATION AND ZONING ORDINANCE # -- ALICE CULVER
AT 911 E. PINE:
Corrie: Mr. Berg, is that agreement signed?
Berg: Mayor and members of the Council I do have a signed development agreement.
The attorney had some discussions with the applicant. I'll refer to him as far as what
those discussions were.
Gigray: Mr. Mayor and members of the Council, I was advised by the Clerk's Office that
the applicant had some concerns with one of the provisions which is a standard
provision in our development agreement unless we're instructed otherwise not to have it
and that is section 6, which is in the one that's in your packet that has a compliance
period of two years. The applicant as I understand it had indicated that they had not
intended to do any present construction, that this was an annexation upon request for
the extension I think of a water line. We checked the record, double checked the action
taken by the City Council, and given that advice prepared a revision of the development
agreement that took that section out. I spoke with the Clerk's Office this afternoon and
was advised that Mrs. Culver had in fact signed this agreement which you have and
advised the Clerk's Office that they might notify here that we have this other agreement
with that taken out. There was a couple of other things that I thought were
extemporaneous to a development agreement I also removed, and I don't know whether
or not and I spoke with Angel Sims in the Clerk's Office whether or not that contact was
made or not. But we know that there is you know the safe play might be to hold and
table this as well as the annexation and zoning as it being our policy that we don't
annex and zone until we have a development agreement signed. If you choose to
accept the agreement as it's signed because she has signed it the way it is, then you
can act on what's here. I don't know. I have not spoken with Mrs. Culver myself.
Bird: Mr. Mayor, who had talked to Mrs. Culver? The City Clerk?
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 29
Berg: Mayor and members of the Council, Mrs. Culver came in and talked with us and
pointed that out that they had no intentions to develop the property right away, thought
two years was even more than they anticipated. They felt they were following the
direction of the City Council and the City of Meridian as to be annexed because of the
sewer hook up I believe is what it was, and she was very concerned about the two year,
but she didn't want to delay our benefit, but I don't think a delay is going to benefit one
or the other intentions of getting it right the first time. So I would concur with Mr. Gigray
to make sure she's signing the right documents that she feels is best for her property
and the right intent towards the city of which her intentions are.
Gigray: Yeah, and it's all there.
Corrie: Okay we can table item four and five until the next meeting or what is your
pleasure?
Bird: Mr. Mayor I move that we table the development agreement by Alice Culver at
911 E. Pine and also the annexation and zoning ordinance of Alice Culver at 911 E.
Pine until July 6t", 1999 so that that she may look at the new development agreement
the attorney has drawn up.
Anderson: Second.
Corrie: Motion made and second that we table item number 4 and number 5 as stated
until July 6, 1999 meeting. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of
the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
6. DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT BY THE LDS CHURCH AT 1985 BLACK CAT
ROAD:
Corrie: Mr. Berg, they have signed that I understand. Is that correct?
Berg: Mayor and members of the Council, they have signed the development
agreement.
Corrie: I'll entertain a motion on the item number six for the resolution as well.
Bentley: Mr. Mayor, I move we approve the development agreement by the LDS
Church 1985 Black Cat Road, authorize the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to attest and
the resolution.
Bird: Second.
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 30
Corrie: Do we know the number of the resolution then would be?
Berg: 236.
Corrie: 236, all right. Motion made and second that the development agreement be
approved and the resolution number 236 be approved and the Mayor to sign and the
Clerk to attest. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion
say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
7. ANNEXATION AND ZONING ORDINANCE #829 -- 1985 BLACK CAT ROAD
(LDS CHURCH):
Corrie: Mr. Clerk would you read that be title only?
Berg: Mr. Mayor and members of the Council, (ORDINANCE #829 WAS READ BY
TITLE ONLY).
Corrie: All right, is there anyone from the audience who would like to have Ordinance
#829 read in its entirety?
Anderson: Mr. Mayor, I would make a motion that we approve Ordinance #829 for the
annexation of the property at 1985 Black Cat Road with suspension of rules.
:31�'01110"T99021 :1
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Anderson second by Mr. Bird to approve the annexation
and zoning ordinance #829 with suspension of rules. Any further discussion?
ROLL CALL VOTE: ROUNTREE, YEA. ANDERSON, YEA. BENTLEY, YEA. BIRD,
YEA.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL YEAS.
8. DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT BY JOINT SCHOOL DISTRICT NO. 2 ON E.
PINE:
Corrie: I guess Mr. Clerk, has the Board signed that one?
Berg: Mr. Mayor and members of the Council, I do have a signed development
agreement. They met last night and approved the agreement. I will have a copy of the
minutes for my record as soon as they are written.
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 31
Corrie: Mr. Gigray, is there a resolution on this one or did we not get it in the packet?
Gigray: I would ask the Clerk whether they have one. We certainly will supply one if
they don't have one. We're suppose to send one along with each development
agreement. I would think there would be one in the packet because there's been one
prepared and then there was a problem with the legal description and that was revised.
If there isn't I'll just put a note on here and we'll supply one.
Berg: Mr. Mayor and members of the Council, I do not have a resolution, but the same
general format for that resolution number 237 should be sufficient.
Bentley: Mr. Mayor I move we approve the development agreement for the school on
E. Pine and authorize the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to attest and resolution number
237.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion is made by Mr. Bentley second by Mr. Bird for the approval of the
development agreement by Joint School District No. 2 on E. Pine and the Mayor is to
sign and the Clerk to attest and the resolution number 237. Any further discussion? All
those in favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Berg: Mr. Mayor, just a comment. I know there's confusion with Crossroads and a
subdivision in Crossroads. This will be known as Lewis and Clark Middle School.
Corrie: Is that one on E. Pine, okay gotcha. Thank you. I got so many phone calls.
9. FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW: REQUEST FOR
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR AN APPROXIMATELY 8,000 SQUARE
FOOT BUILDING BY BILL & PAT GEYER — NE CORNER OF WILSON &
LOCUST GROVE:
Corrie: Council you have the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law on this project
on number 9. How do you wish to proceed?
(End of Tape)
Rountree: I move that we approve the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law and
Decision and Order for the conditional use permit for 8,000 square foot building.
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 32
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Rountree second by Mr. Bird to accept the Findings of Fact
and Conclusions of Law on the Bill and Pat Geyer project item number nine. Any
further discussion? Hearing none, roll call vote.
ROLL CALL VOTE: ROUNTREE, YEA. ANDERSON, YEA. BENTLEY, YEA. BIRD,
YEA.
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10. FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW: REQUEST FOR A
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR MULTIPLE BUILDINGS ON ONE LOT BY
WES WORCESTER D/B/A SANTEE CONSTRUCTION—SOUTH OF E. PINE
ST. & WEST OF N. RALSTIN ST.:
Corrie: Any questions for the Counselor or staff?
Bentley: I have none.
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Okay, I'll entertain a motion on item number ten.
Bird: Mr. Mayor I move that we approve the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law
for a conditional use permit I for multiple buildings on one lot by Wes Worcester d/b/a
Santee Construction south of E. Pine Street and west of N. Ralstin Street.
Rountree: Second.
Corrie: Motion is made by Mr. Bird second by Mr. Rountree to approve the Findings of
Fact and Conclusions of Law on item number ten and have the proper order drawn.
Any further discussion? Roll call vote.
ROLL CALL VOTE: ROUNTREE, YEA. ANDERSON, YEA. BENTLEY, YEA. BIRD,
YEA.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL YEAS.
11. FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW: REQUEST FOR A
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A BANK WITH DRIVE-THRU LANES BY
OLSON & ASSOCIATES ARCHITECTS (HOME FEDERAL)—SE CORNER OF
FRANKLIN & MERIDIAN RD:
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 33
Corrie: Are there any questions between staff or Council?
Bentley: I have none.
Bird: I have none, Mayor.
Corrie: Hearing none —
Bentley: Mr. Mayor I move we adopt the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law and
Decision and Order granting conditional use for a bank with drive through lanes by
Home Federal.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bentley second by Mr. Bird to approve the Findings of Fact
and Conclusions of Law request for a conditional use permit for the Home Federal Bank
drive through lanes and approved and order be drawn. Any further discussions?
Hearing none, roll call vote.
ROLL CALL VOTE: ROUNTREE, YEA. ANDERSON, YEA. BENTLEY, YEA. BIRD,
YEA.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL YEAS.
12. FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW: REQUEST FOR A
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A SPECIALTY RETAIL MUSIC STORE BY
JOHN BEAGLEY—NORTH OF OVERLAND RD BETWEEN S LOCUST
GROVE RD & S EAGLE RD (2400 E. OVERLAND RD):
Corrie: Is there any discussions or questions of Counsel or staff?
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Okay, hearing none, I'll entertain a motion on the item number 12.
Bird: Mr. Mayor I move we approve the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law and
Decision and Order for a conditional use permit for a specialty music store by John
Beagley, north of Overland Road between S. Locust Grove and S. Eagle Road, 2400 E.
Overland Road actual address.
Anderson: Second.
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 34
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bird second by Mr. Anderson to approve the Findings of
Fact and Conclusions of Law on item number 12 and have an order drawn. Any further
discussion?
ROLL CALL VOTE: ROUNTREE, YEA. ANDERSON, YEA. BENTLEY, YEA. BIRD,
YEA.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL YEAS.
13. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR ANNEXATION & ZONING FOR
PROPOSED CHERRY LANE ESTATES BY JEFFREY L. MANSHIP-4375 W.
CHERRY LANE:
Corrie: At this time I will open the public hearing and first hear from staff. Staff, do you
have any questions as far as the recommendation on the Planning and Zoning
Recommendations? Shari.
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, I don't really have any questions. I'd kind of like to let
you know what has happened on this project. It's gone on since I think they initially
submitted in November. They're proposing one acre lots on septic systems. They are
immediately adjacent to the Parkside Creek Subdivision and there is no sewer available
at this time to serve the property. So they came in for the annexation and zoning to an
R-2 density. They then also submitted a preliminary plat. There was extensive
discussion because of the fact that a five acre parcel exists to the south of this property
that they also want to develop, but the staff told them that we wouldn't recommend that
more than the four lots be on a private road. They're proposing a 30 foot wide gravel
road to serve these three additional units, two additional units. There is an existing
house on the property on Cherry Lane. As we were going through the process with
Planning and Zoning Commission, one of the commissioners noted a paragraph in our
comprehensive plan that said if density below three units per acre were proposed, it had
to be considered as part of a conditional use under the planned development guidelines
and also that they had to provide a cost benefit analysis to the city. There has been an
additional development since this project has come in. It's something that you will see
in the future. I don't know how much I'll say without Mr. Gigray stopping me, but there is
an application in the process for 40 acres at the southeast corner of Black Cat and
Cherry. I'm not sure how the Public Works Department is going to review that and what
their comments might be as far as using the existing sewer system to serve that as part
of the Planning and Zoning Department's review, we would require that at least the stub
be extended to the Brown property, which is the five acres to the south of this property.
I don't know if that will have any impact on your recommendation. Staff did have a very
hard time with this project because of the many terms in our comprehensive plan that it
was not consistent with. Other than that, Mr. Manship is here and anxious to at least
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 35
get some kind of decision so he knows where he's going and what he can do with his
property. If you have any questions of me, that's about the history I have of this project.
Corrie: Shari, I had a question. There's a lot of conditions on this from the Planning
and Zoning Commission. Do you feel we need the developer's agreement on this or
not?
Stiles: I believe we did request a development agreement.
Corrie: You could have. I didn't notice one, just a question to you.
Stiles: I have to look at my comments again.
Corrie: I'll let you look that one up then. Any questions of staff report?
Bentley: Not at this time.
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: I have none.
Corrie: Since this is a public hearing, we'll invite the applicant to step forward. I'll ask
you the same question. Have you had a chance to see all those of the Planning and
Zoning Commission's recommendations and do you have a problem with any of them?
Manship: No, I did not sign any written agreement. Just verbal agreement.
Corrie: Can I have your name please?
Manship: Jeff Manship 4375 W. Cherry Lane.
Corrie: Anybody else would like to testify on this item number 13 public hearing request
for annexation and zoning? Okay, questions from Council?
Anderson: Yes, I have a question of Jeff. Have you seen any of the plans of the stuff
that's going to go in now to the west of your property and how does that tie in with what
you're thinking about developing?
Manship: The last I heard, a doctor out of Seattle purchased the property next to me
and was sitting on it as an investment. This is news to me tonight about the future
development of that property.
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 36
Anderson: So I guess in my mind, would you be opposed to looking at what he's doing
and do something that's conducive with —
Manship: I would at this time. Every month that goes with this, it's gone on since
November, is dollars out of my pocket keep going on it and I'd hate to wait another year
or so to see what the other gentleman is doing.
Anderson: Is this like a flag lot just has a narrow 30 foot entrance coming in off of
Cherry Lane and then goes back in the back.
Manship: It's actually about 120 something feet of Cherry Lane frontage and the 30 foot
easement goes along the north / south on the west side of the property to service the
five acres behind me. I'd like to add a note. A gentleman just put earnest money down
I guess for an agreement to purchase the back five acres and just hold on to it as farm
ground and keep it and he is here and I don't know if he's going to speak or not. But he
has no plans on developing it. We had a discussion today about it. Thank you.
Anderson: Thank you.
Gigray: Mr. Mayor and members of the Council, point of information and you may want
to inquire of the staff about this. As I was preparing for this meeting reviewing the
recommendations to the City Council from the Planning and Zoning Commission, it
didn't appear to me that there was a recommendation on this particular matter that a
development agreement be entered into although it appeared that the recommendation
posed a number of conditions of annexation, which I don't believe we can do without
doing a development agreement. Although it looked like many of these conditions were
relative to the platting process and I know that there's a preliminary plat I believe is the
next public hearing and what would be helpful I would think in your consideration would
be to clarify with staff whether or not they feel that the conditions are important to have
for annexation in case something happened and the plat didn't go through or whatever
and whether they would recommend that a development agreement be prepared in
conjunction with the annexation and zoning and then you would probably if that question
were asked and then answered, I think Mr. Manship should have an opportunity to
respond as to what his position is since it's not specifically stated in the
recommendations.
Corrie: Shari, comment?
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, I would agree that one of our comments should have
been that a development agreement should be entered into for this property.
Corrie: Jeff, do you have a comment on that?
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 37
Manship: (Inaudible)
Corrie: Thank you. Any other questions?
Bentley: I have none.
Corrie: One more crack. Anybody from the public want to have testimony added to
this? Hearing none, under those conditions you have all the questions you need to ask.
I'll entertain a motion to close the public hearing.
Bird: Mr. Mayor I move that we close the public hearing.
Bentley: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bird second by Mr. Bentley to close the public hearing.
Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion say aye.
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Corrie: Discussion?
Rountree: Mr. Mayor as much as I sympathize with what Mr. Manship has gone through
since November, I have a real difficult time seeing that this annexation and subsequent
plat is of any particular benefit to the City of Meridian. I can see that given the amount
of land around it that's within the city that apparently is going to be developed that
there's future inconsistencies with what it's zoned, what it could developed at, what's
being asked for here or living with these little piece meal annexations in some instances
and some rather large ones in other instances that are inconsistent with what's going on
around them and I for one have a real difficult time supporting this application. Though
as I said before, I really sympathize with what you've got and gone through to try to do
something with this. We can't service it. I think that is something that we need to
consider if we're going to be annexing properties that we cannot service even on a
relatively small scale in my opinion that establishes a precedence and makes it difficult
to say no the next time.
Corrie: Any further discussion from Council? Hearing none, the Council has four
options here. They can continue the public hearing, they can accept the
recommendation from the Planning and Zoning Commission, modify the
recommendation from the Planning and Zoning Commission, or they can deny the
annexation. Any further discussion? Hearing none, I'll entertain a motion on the
request for annexation and zoning on item number 13.
Anderson: Mr. Mayor I would make a motion that we deny this request for annexation.
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 38
Rountree: I'll second that.
Corrie: Motion has been made by Mr. Anderson second by Mr. Rountree that we deny
the request for annexation and zoning of item number 13. Further discussion from
Council? Hearing none roll call vote.
ROLL CALL VOTE: ROUNTREE, YEA. ANDERSON, YEA. BENTLEY, YEA. BIRD,
NAY.
MOTION CARRIED: 3 YEAS, 1 NAY.
Gigray: Mr. Mayor for purposes of procedure, I assume I will be directed to prepare
Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law and an Order of Denial in conformance with
your decision here tonight for your consideration at the next Council meeting.
Corrie: Is that your recommendation?
Anderson: Yes, I'm sorry.
Corrie: Also have the attorney draw up the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law.
Anderson: So moved.
14. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR PRELIMINARY PLAT FOR CHERRY
LANE ESTATES BY JEFFREY L. MANSHIP — 4375 W. CHERRY LANE:
Corrie: Mr. Gigray, would that be — do we need to still have the public hearing or it's just
Gigray: Well I think since it's on the agenda, you have to open the public hearing and
then proceed and then it's going to be in the first instance up to the applicant the issue
of the preliminary plat. Since this is now in the county I assume with somewhat depend
upon our relationship with Ada County on approval of the plats. That are in the impact
area. Although this does change I think the way you look at this. If you do not have an
annexation as you've taken action here, you would not have any ordinance within which
to consider a conditional use permit and so that would become moot in my opinion after
your order of denial.
Corrie: With that recommendation, item number 14 is a public hearing request for
preliminary plat for Cherry Lane Estates by Jeffrey L. Manship. I'll open the public
hearing. Comments from staff?
Stiles: None.
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 39
Corrie: Since it is a public hearing would the applicant — nothing? Anybody else wish to
issue testimony on this item number 14 request for preliminary plat? Okay, I'll entertain
a motion to close the public hearing.
Bird: Mr. Mayor I move we close the public hearing.
Corrie: Do I hear a second?
Anderson: Second.
Corrie: Motion is made by Mr. Bird second by Mr. Anderson to close the public hearing.
All those in favor say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Corrie: Then I presume Mr. Gigray we need a motion on the preliminary plat; is that
correct?
Gigray: Yeah, you've had a public hearing so at this point, I guess you have to make a
decision about whether you're going to grant the request, grant it subject to conditions.
You have recommendations from Planning and Zoning Commission before you for
denial, and I would have to prepare the appropriate paperwork based on your decision.
Corrie: So I'll entertain a motion then on the preliminary plat.
Anderson: Mr. Mayor I would make a motion that we would deny the preliminary plat for
Cherry Lane Estates and instruct the legal staff to draft the appropriate orders.
Corrie: Any second to the motion?
Bentley: Second.
Corrie: Motion made and second that we deny the preliminary plat, that the city
attorney prepare the appropriate order and decision and that the Mayor have the power
to sign the same. Any further discussion?
Rountree: I have none.
ROLL CALL VOTE: ROUNTREE, YEA. ANDERSON, YEA. BENTLEY, YEA. BIRD,
YEA.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL YEAS.
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 40
15. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR
DEVELOPMENT DENSITY BELOW 3 UNITS PER ACRE FOR PROPOSED
CHERRY LANE ESTATES BY JEFF MANSHIP-4375 W. CHERRY LANE:
Corrie: I assume that the item number 15 is moot at this point, Mr. Attorney.
Gigray: Mr. Mayor and members of the Council, it is my opinion and as you will know
it's been standard advice of mine to the Council that you never take action on
conditional use permits until you've completed annexation. We've held public hearings,
taken the information, but we've always held the orders and the held the approvals and
since you have now denied the annexation, you would have no ordinance under which
to consider a conditional use permit, and my recommendation is that you would
determine that it's moot at this point. If the applicant would try to submit some kind of
new proposal or whatever at some point, then they can go back through the process.
But there really wouldn't be any authority in which you would have a public hearing I
would think at this point in time.
Corrie: Do we need a motion on that? Just remove it from the agenda then?
Gigray: To dismiss it.
Corrie: Dismiss it, okay. I'll entertain a motion to dismiss item number 15.
Bird: Mr. Mayor I move that we dismiss from our agenda any future Council meetings,
request for conditional use permit for development density below three units per acre for
Cherry Lane Estates by Jeff Manship at 4375 W. Cherry Lane.
Corrie: Do I hear a second?
Anderson: Second.
Corrie: Motion is made and second that the proposal on the public hearing on item
number 15. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion say
aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Bird: Mr. Mayor I would like a clarification for just myself being a not too smart guy, but
why would even act upon the preliminary plat after we denied the annexation and
zoning? It's out of our jurisdiction if we don't annex and zone it.
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 41
Gigray: Platting is still within your jurisdiction. You have the authority over all plats in
your impact area, and there was I think some pending jurisdiction there. I think you
would want to relook at the preliminary plat given your action you could have tabled it if
you wanted to for further report from the administrator, but as I interpret and how I will
prepare the order from the action taken and the discussions of the Council is that we
had I think a finding that it wasn't compatible with the comprehensive plan, which is an
essential consideration of any zoning designation. You have absolute discretion on
annexation anyway and I believe as I understood the facts and as I understood the
decision making of the Council, I would preparing Findings on the denial of the
preliminary plat in line of the fact that the proposal is presently submitted and the ability
of the city to provide services is just not compatible with your comprehensive plan.
Bird: Okay, thank you.
16. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR REZONE OF .323 ACRES (FROM R-15
TO L -O) BY MATTHEW & DANITA HARTZ-1990 N. MERIDIAN RD:
Corrie: At this time I will open the public hearing and staff comments.
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, this is the existing home on Meridian Road. They would
like to turn it into a music store and be able to give lessons there. They have agreed
with all of our recommendations for approval. The staff has recommended approval of
the project.
Corrie: This is a public hearing. I'll invite the applicant to come forward.
Hartz: Matthew Hartz, 1990 N. Meridian Road. Any questions?
Corrie: Have you read the recommendations of the Planning and Zoning?
Hartz: Yes.
Corrie: Do you agree with all of those?
Hartz: Yes, agree to comply with everything.
Corrie: Anything else?
Hartz: No.
Corrie: Thank you. Is there anyone from the public who would like to issue testimony
on item number 16 here tonight? Hearing none, Council any further questions?
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 42
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: I'll entertain a motion to close the public hearing on item number 16.
Bentley: So moved.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion made and second we close the public hearing on item number 16
request for a rezone. Any further discussion? All those in favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Corrie: Discussion Council? I'll entertain a motion on the request for rezone.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor I move that we instruct the City Attorney to prepare Findings of
Fact and Conclusions of Law, Decision and Order, and annexation ordinance for the
requested rezone.
Bentley: Second.
Corrie: Motion is made and second that we have the attorney draw up the Findings of
Fact and Conclusions of Law on the request for rezone. Discussion? I have one. Do
we need a development agreement here Shari? No? We do? Yeah, you're right.
Thank you Mr. Attorney. Okay, any further discussion?
Gigray: It may be worth opening the public hearing because I think —
Bird: Let's amend our thing —
Gigray: I mean if you're going to have conditions I can tell you (inaudible) if you're
going to have conditions on annexation, you're going to have to have a development
agreement.
(Inaudible)
Gigray: You can do it on a rezone.
Rountree: It's part of a rezone.
Bird: That's part of your motion was the development agreement.
Rountree: Include that as part of the motion.
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 43
Corrie: Motion is to have the attorney draw up the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of
Law and development agreement for the rezone of .323 acres by Matthew and Danita
Hartz. Any further discussion? Hearing none, roll call vote.
ROLL CALL VOTE: ROUNTREE, YEA. ANDERSON, YEA. BENTLEY, YEA. BIRD,
YEA.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL YEAS.
18. FINAL PLAT FOR MAWS NO. 3 SUBDIVISION (7 BUILDING LOTS) BY
TEALEY'S LAND SURVEYING—NORTH OF PINE & WEST OF LOCUST
GROVE RD:
Corrie: Staff report, Shari?
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, hopefully you have our comments that are dated June
11th, 1999 because of the lateness of our comments, we did not ask for a written
response. We would like the issues of pressurized irrigation to be addressed. I don't
think that was ever finalized and also the other item that may be of concern is we have
requested the copy of the Ada County Highway District's storm drainage easement.
They're showing a 30 foot easement. Typically those easements are not encroachable.
If that were the case, it would not be a usable area and should not be included as part
of a lot. It should be a separate lot. They do show that five feet of the 30 feet
encroaching on to a buildable lot. Those are the major items that we would ask that the
applicant's representative respond to.
Corrie: Is the applicant here tonight? Yes, sir.
Pavelek: Mr. Mayor and Council, my name is Richard Pavelek. I'm with Tealey's Land
Surveying. We have offices at 915 W. Jefferson in Boise. I do have a response to the
two issues. The first one if I could approach I have a letter from Nampa Meridian
Irrigation District.
Bird: What's the date on this letter? I can't read it.
Pavelek: I'm sorry. This came in the latter part of May. It was faxed to me June 4th and
it was a response to an inquiry made by Mr. Gregory regarding the irrigation. This is not
exactly clearly what we had hoped to get from Nampa Meridian, but in the start of the
second paragraph, it clearly states there is no currently operating capacity. This letter is
actually the second inquiry. Mr. Gregory did in fact contact the developer of Danbury to
inquire whether or not there would be water available for Maws No. 3 and was told that
there would not be. I think if you look at paragraph three, what Nampa Meridian is
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 44
proposing is an LID for the purpose of expanding the facility. The chances of this
happening are probably slim to none. If this condition of pressurized irrigation is
maintained in this plat, it's very unlikely will be able to complete the conditions of
approval. Now if we go back to the earlier discussions on this issue. Maws 1 and 2
under the ordinances the Meridian ordinances at the time applied for the fees for
granted irrigation exclusions and they paid the well development fees. We went through
the records and we found that to be the case. It's unclear to me as to whether or not
the fees in fact were paid for this phase vacant land or not. But the facts are that for us
to try and satisfy this condition through a series of third parties form a local improvement
district to fund improvements to off site facilities controlled by other is just not going to
happen and so I think we would be frustrated if the condition is maintained. I would ask
that this condition be removed. The other condition I believe I looked at the plat, and I
didn't have a copy with me earlier when I saw this, but I believe the reference is in fact
to a private drain that was located during the construction of phases one and two and it
passes between the lots. It is not a highway district drain. It's a drain that runs under
the property. It was maintained. Is that not true? That was my understanding of that
facility. The only facility that I was aware of that was for — this is condition number 15
that I'm referring to. It refers to lot 33. Lot 33 is in the middle of the project. Pardon?
Do you have a copy of the plat so I can take a look at it again? I think what may have
happened is when I looked back on it, I was looking at the preliminary plat. If the
numbers have changed, then I'm in error. That issue we'll be happy to deal with the
highway district, so I'm not concerned about that one. When I first saw that, I thought
there is an existing private drain that runs underneath the middle part of the project, and
I thought that was what you were referring to so we'll deal with that condition number
15. The only change that we would request is the irrigation condition, condition 11.
Gigray: Mr. Mayor and members of the Council, just a point of information. You may
want to seek clarification both from the applicant as well as from staff as to whether or
not the relief requested here by the applicant here on the condition number 11 would
require them to file an application for a variance, which if that were the case they may
want to request that you table this platting until they file that application so you can have
a hearing on the variance to determine whether or not — what circumstances you're
going to grant the final approval of the plat. I mean you may want to address staff on
these issues and the applicant as well. So they can respond, but I just raise those
questions.
Pavelek: Mr. Mayor, it's my understanding that when a subdivision starts out in terms of
platting process that certain conditions are established and certain rules are established
which it is developed under, and if you are form continuity of development, once you
start under a set of rules, that you would enjoy those rules throughout the life of the
project. There are many things that can happen in terms of the specifics of
development. We are meeting all the ordinance requirements in terms of the setbacks
and everything else, but it's a fundamental question in terms of how this project was
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 45
serviced. It was recognized, it was done within the ordinance of the time and developed
accordingly the services were set up. This is one that a decision was made in the early
two phases that preclude the ability for us to in fact provide a pressurized irrigation
which is not now currently required. It would be my feeling that a variance would not be
required because this is a pre-existing condition within the development of this parcel of
land. Therefore would not be subject to that. If in fact it's determined legally and I'm not
a legal mind, but I guess I've looked at various land use applications and my
observation is when an issue like this comes up that there are certain grandfather rights
that are enjoyed in terms of the development. The developer relied and counted on the
decisions that were made. He's followed through and all the items that he has been
asked to with this one exception in terms of this earlier series of decisions now make it
impossible for him to proceed with this condition so if legal counsel in fact does
determine that a variance is needed we will step back, we'll ask for a variance and
proceed, however from my view point in this circumstance a variance is not required
because of the conformance of the subdivision at the time that it was presented to
Council and previous phases were in fact approved on that basis.
Corrie: Staff comments?
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, this project is not part of a previously approved project.
The preliminary plat has come in in the last year. In fact, I don't know if it's fortunately
or unfortunately, I wasn't here when Maws No. 1 & 2 came through, in their applications
they submitted they did indicate that there was pressurized irrigation, they marketed the
project as having irrigation, I received numerous complaints from people within the
subdivision that the pressurized irrigation was never completed, and in fact after the
approval of the preliminary plats for No. 1 & 2 the Developer opted to go to Nampa -
Meridian and exclude himself from having water rights. Perhaps if an LID is needed
they should go back to 1 & 2 and get the — I'm sure those people would enjoy having the
pressurized irrigation that was promised to them when they bought the lots, but as far
as this having any grandfather rights, none exist in my opinion. The ordinance that
existed at the time, is the same one that exists today, I don't know if it was actual
ordinance that said lots could pay a certain amount, they did accept certain dollar
amount at that time for lots within the subdivision to pay into the well development fund
but as far as I know there have been no changes to the Zoning & Development
Ordinance & Subdivision Development Ordinance that would indicate that they have
any kind of grandfather rights. The way the ordinance reads now it basically says if they
want to build a well for the City and put it on line or pay for all the materials to put it on
line, then the requirement for pressurized irrigation could be waived.
Pavelek: Mr. Mayor, I'll try and find before the evening is over basically records from
the City of Meridian, the Developer does not pay Nampa -Meridian for the exclusion of
the pressurized irrigation. They paid the City of Meridian and if I can I'll try and find the
receipts for the payment to the City of Meridian for exclusion.
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 46
Bird: Exclusion from what?
Pavelek: The requirement of pressurized irrigation. At one point, the City of Meridian,
the ordinance gave the option to the Developer of either to provide pressurized irrigation
or to essentially buy out of it. In this case, the Developer paid the City of Meridian well
development fees to in fact be excluded from providing irrigation to individual lots within
the development. It was an agreement between City of Meridian and the Developer. In
1993 that's what the ordinance provided and I'll try my best to find the receipts that we
in fact got out of the Treasurer's files for that purpose.
Bird: Mr. Mayor, the problem is that this is a new subdivision which is out of the new
plat, which is Maws No. 3, which in your preliminary plat required you to have to get a
variance so that if you didn't have pressurized irrigation, disregarding the other two
subdivisions so I think that maybe we need to table this for a week and let people get
some receipts and stuff and get down to the bottom of this.
Pavelek: Mr. Mayor, what I have found so far is a letter, a resolution, excluding the
property from irrigation from Nampa -Meridian. There is a letter there of exclusion.
Bird: That's from Nampa -Meridian.
Pavelek: That's from Nampa -Meridian and I'll find basically — I'll find the receipts that
we had been given previously from the City of Meridian's files, in fact I just found them.
(Inaudible)
Pavelek: It all goes back to basically the land base associated, and this is basically the
conclusion from Nampa -Meridian.
Corrie: This is from 1993, correct?
Bird: This one's 1992 here.
Pavelek: I guess I was not involved in 1992 or 1993 of this like Ms. Stiles and possibly
would have done it differently but the fact is is that the Developer entered into a series
of understandings both with Nampa -Meridian as well as with the City of — I'm sorry,
Nampa -Meridian Irrigation District as well as the City of Meridian and we have basically
the hole in the donut and we have no way of providing water to that hole at this point
and time either for water rights or for availability. Our only avenue would be in fact a
very unsure process of an LID and in the three weeks since we've contacted Nampa -
Meridian there has been no further action — (end of tape) there is — if there's a request
for a variance that's required we will make a request and present that to you for your
consideration.
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 47
Bird: Mr. Mayor, I'm thinking these things that you know, preliminary plat for No. 3, 1
and 2 disregard it, they're done with, states that if they are not going to put in
pressurized irrigation they've got to come back in for a variance before the City Council.
I think it's pretty clear for the preliminary plat.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor, the way the current ordinance reads is the only way we can
waive the requirement for the pressurized irrigation system if they'll commit to doing a
well, etc., etc., as Shari explained so it seems to me the variance would be the only
option and then have to demonstrate justification for the variance.
Gigray: Mr. Mayor, members of the Council, point of information for your consideration.
It seems to me that the issue on this final plat is down to this item #11 whether
pressurized irrigation is required under the present ordinance. A variance would be
required, I don't know whether they can prove factually that they had this particular
application in the hopper before the ordinance was changed. I would agree that they
are entitled to the rights of the ordinances that exist at the time they make their
application but I don't — you know without facts as to whether or not Maws No. 1 & 2
included this real property I wouldn't know what the answer to that question is.
Secondly, if they have already paid a well development fee that would somehow
(inaudible) to not have to comply with the pressurized irrigation and some evidence has
been produced this evening, it seems to me that in the interest of insuring that we have
good evidence that this matter ought to be continued to allow that evidence to be
reviewed so that the staff can respond as to whether or not it was or was not a payment
that would exempt them. I also suggest that a continuance would be in order so that the
Developer can determine whether or not on their own they feel that they need to make
an application for a variance because I don't think the City Council should tell them you
have to make a variance or not, I think the City Council's action will be that you're either
going to require the condition of final plat approval or you're not, they can decide
whether or not they need a variance or not and if they don't feel that legally they're
required to and that they're somehow exempted from this requested condition, certainly
they should be given an opportunity to prove their case but I think you need to have a
forum where that can be done and then the staff would be in a position to respond to
their evidence which it doesn't seem to me that people are prepared to do this evening.
Bentley: I would agree. I think that we need to take some time on this and let the staff
work through it and have the gentlemen with the application see if they can pull together
the information that is needed so I'd be prepared to offer a motion to table this until
7/6/99.
Bird: You're tabling the public hearing until 7/6/99?
Bentley: Well this isn't a public hearing, it's a final plat.
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 48
Bentley: So I would move we table this until 7/6/99.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bentley, second by Mr. Bird to table till July 6, 1999 the
final plat on Maws No. 3 Subdivision in order to give the staff and the applicant time to
pull together the recommendations and conditions. Any further discussion Mr.
Rountree?
Rountree: I guess I just don't see where we're going with that. What we did in the past,
we did in the past, this is a new proposal, a new subdivision, we don't have provisions in
our ordinance any more to accept well development fees, apparently we haven't for a
number of years, given the ordinance book the back part of 1992 maybe. It seems to
me the direction it needs to go is a variance needs to be requested by the applicant and
the Council needs to act on a variance not what we did in the past, unless we're
desirous to make up some rules as we go on the deal.
Bentley: Mr. Mayor, I'm not desirous to make up rules as we go, all I want to do is get
the results and if the gentleman has some kind of proof that this was tied to the other
two then we need to have that come forth. I guess to speed it up we could take and just
Rountree: Well it seems to me that the variance is the way to go and at least that keeps
them moving forward and if they can provide evidence as it relates to the question of the
variance that they paid money for this particular development in the past then the
variance wouldn't apparently be required. It was stated here this evening though that it
wasn't known. That clouds hung over this thing since it came in here. There was some
other folks that represented the applicant originally that were emphatic that we paid it,
now we're here at the final stages and we don't know, I don't know that we're ever going
to know, if you look at those receipts you sure can't tell. The issue is the elimination of
their rights to water with Nampa -Meridian irrigation is an issue between them and
Nampa -Meridian Irrigation not the City of Meridian, though it does relate to Maws No. 3
according to the letter but that's not anything we even deal with so I don't know, just for
the applicant to think once they move forward — he's either going to have to get a
variance or we're going to have to deal with that question of did we accept well
development fees for this phase of the project or not and the question I have was that
even doable? Apparently it must have been at some point and time but I guess I agree
with tabling the action on the final plat but I think that the course of action is that we look
at a variance.
Anderson: I guess I ultimately agree with you, it might be a variance but I guess I'd like
to at least give the staff time to look and see if there was anything that tied this into
those other two phases and if there was any guarantees or anything made and if there's
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 49
any documentation to support and (inaudible) a tabling and if they work out that it's not
tied in then at that meeting at the 6h then we'll be looking at a variance.
Rountree: The applicant needs to know that in sufficient time so it can be noticed.
Pavelek: Mr. Mayor, if I could just speak very briefly. It is a confusing issue and it's
frustrating for everybody concerned but this was a single piece of property, under one
ownership and there was a series of plats that moved through from preliminary to final.
One property. And every time you launch off a piece of the property it goes through the
system. There haven't been any time frames that we haven't met in terms of the
submission so even though we didn't submit a preliminary plat for the whole property at
any given time we went through a submission, preliminary, final, phase 1. We carved
off a portion of the property for that subdivision, we went to the next one and now we're
coming back for the final one. There isn't anything in the ordinance that deals with the
time that's gone on but we basically have one parcel and to my thinking there is some
continuity established in terms of how this thing was developed. If there were more
than a number of parcels, if another parcel was brought in that had nothing to do with
the original parcel I would agree but this it totally an independent application having
nothing to do with the previous phases but this is one parcel that has moved through the
system and therefore I do believe that this is a legal point, however, I can spend a
bunch of time, Mr. Gigray can spend a bunch of time, and I'm not sure we'll get
anywhere, and the same thing is the analysis, the receipts, clearly money was paid in
for well development fees, in light of the owners they feel that they paid for the entire
property and I don't know whether they can argue it right or wrong, I know staff has got
their opinion and the client has theirs. I would like to move ahead and get this thing
resolved. It's a small subdivision, it needs to go on, we've been at it now for nearly a
year and we think we have outside of this one condition, a viable subdivision. With this
condition we don't have a viable condition, it's that simple. If you want me to prepare an
application for variance I'll do that and get it into you as quickly as I can.
Corrie: We have a motion before the Council whether to table this until July 6th till staff
can — till we can all get together. I don't think we're going to answer the question here
tonight and I think everybody here is — (inaudible) good questions and good answers
here so — Gary?
Smith: Mr. Mayor, maybe a little history here on the well development fees. That was
an alternative that had been offered to some developments and it was offered at the
time that the final plats were approved and any well development fees were paid on the
basis of the final plats and so I can almost guarantee you without doing any research
that there were no well development fees paid on this piece of property. This piece of
property came about after the preliminary plat for phases 1 and 2 was approved and the
final plats for 1 and 2 were approved and then the Council felt that it was important
enough to develop pressurized irrigation systems that they went away from the well
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 50
development fee concept. I don't recall what the ordinance says specifically towards
that. I do remember that the ordinance is much more strict on requirements for
alternatives than what the previous Council had required in terms of what Shari had
mentioned actually providing a well for the City or materials for a well, a domestic well
for the City which is a substantial investment and so I think the well development fees
was a spin off from the requirements of the ordinance and much more lenient than the
actual requirements of the ordinance at that time, but it was an alternative at one time
for final plats.
Anderson: Mr. Mayor, I guess in light of that information, if Gary feels that confident that
it wasn't part of it then the only choice would be a variance so I guess I would be leaning
towards instructing that come back for a variance at the next meeting.
Corrie: We need to take care of the motion. The motion was to table item #18 until July
6, 1999. Any further discussions on that motion? Hearing none. All those in favor of
tabling item #18 till July 6, 1999 say aye. Opposed?
Anderson: Can I get clarification. I was listening to the discussion and some people
were talking about tabling it and some were talking about continuing. What is it?
Rountree: It would be tabled, it's a final plat.
Corrie: An aye vote would mean that you table it until July 6th, a nay vote that you
would not table it until July 6th. Those in favor of tabling until July 6, 1999 on the final
plat say aye. Opposed no?
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Corrie: Item #18 is tabled till July 6, 1999.
19. FINAL PLAT FOR SUE'S SUBDIVISION (6 BUILDING LOTS) BY MIKE STIPA —
NORTH OF BROADWAY AVE., SOUTH OF PINE, WEST OF W. 4T":
Corrie: Staff, comments on the final plat?
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, this is for a subdivision that was also known as Meridian
Acres at one time. I hate to bring up the issue of pressurized irrigation. We do have
evidence from them that they do not have surface water supply available and they've
agreed to pay the well development fees in lieu of that pressurized irrigation. I don't
know if that's an ordinance or where that came from. The Public Works Department
analyzed it and based on the amount of the square footage of the land they will have in
landscaping and maybe Gary can clarify, since it is below the half acre — I don't know if
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 51
that's ordinance or what but there would be less than a half acre irrigated and so in that
case they would allow city water to be used but I'm not sure where we are on that.
Corrie: Gary?
Smith: Mr. Mayor and Council members, our recent water rights that we obtained from
the Idaho Department of Water Resources restricts us to the amount of water that we
can place on land for irrigation and we therefore have to follow those requirements and
we are limited to a half acre of sprinkling, common lot area of sprinkling, with domestic
water and as I understand it this is less than that so we don't have a problem in allowing
them to sprinkle the common area with city water as far as the requirements of our
water rights are concerned.
Bird: Gary, what about our ordinance? Our ordinance is pretty definite that says that
you will either — and there's no well fee or whatever you want to call it, it says that you
either put in a well or you pay to have a well put in, no if's and's or but's about it or you
hook up to pressurized irrigation and that's the same thing we're just talking about
earlier, are we going to change every situation that comes or are we going to live by the
ordinance?
Smith: Well I don't think we have a choice, that the ordinance requires it, unless a
variance is granted as I understand it.
Bird: Okay, Gary. I don't know what a well — Shari said a well development fee is a — a
well costs us three to four hundred thousand dollars, is that what they're going to give
us or what?
Smith: No.
Bird: I don't think so. I mean that definitely isn't what the receipt we saw was for.
Smith: No, that well development fee was based on the number of homes that a well
costing three hundred thousand would serve proportioned out on that basis.
Bird: But our ordinance doesn't state that.
Smith: Right. I think there are some cases where there are extraordinary
circumstances that —
Stipa: Can I comment on that?
Corrie: It's not a public hearing.
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 52
Stipa: I was just going to clarify what Bruce Freckleton wanted.
Corrie: Gary, are you done?
Smith: I guess so.
Stipa: I'm Mike Stipa, the owner of the property and I've been working with Bruce
Freckleton on this and we redesigned our landscaping to a certain extent to
accommodate the footages that he said that the guidelines would fall in for the area, the
minimum required, and I think my footage came out around 19,500 feet and the
minimums are over 20,000. He did make a request of me to put in a meter, there's six
lots all together, a meter for each lot dedicated totally to the irrigation that would be
separate from the rest of the buildings so basically I've tried to follow along with what he
recommended and in terms of the fee I don't know if he called it a well development fee,
I don't think he called it that, there was some fee per building and I frankly don't
remember Shari what he referred to it as.
Corrie: Gary, you don't know your comment on that one (inaudible)
Smith: I don't.
Corrie: Okay, thank you. Thank you Mike.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor, the sentence in the ordinance, one of the outs, says that if you
can't do the pressurized irrigation system the requirement can be waived if they deed
land for a well, drill wells, put wells on line, etc., etc., or to the subdivider deposits gives
and grants sufficient funds with the City to purchase all necessary equipment to put the
well on line with the City water system. I suppose one could construe that direction as
identifying a cost for putting a well on line or a system on line that would accommodate
those number of lots and that might have been the genesis of a well development fee. I
don't have a problem stretching it that way but I think we — again, we see this issue not
frequently, but enough that we ought to get a sub -ordinance or a clarification statement
that what we've been doing as a result of maybe that sentence and what we've been
doing is based on a formula created by Public Works and it's related to the current cost
of providing domestic water. I don't have a problem with doing the well development fee
but I just think that we're kind of on thin ice in some of these things at times and I don't
think the Developers do either, if they can't provide water I — what can you do?
Bird: We're being so inconsistent though. I mean one time we're doing well
development, next time you've got to put it in and stuff like that, the poor Developer out
there he doesn't know what he's supposed to do.
Bentley: I agree.
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 53
Bird: I think we need to go through with a variance on anything that don't go word for
word with our ordinance and I have no problem with it.
Corrie: Gary?
Smith: Mr. Mayor, Council members, I think there are instances where extraordinary
circumstances exist and I think in those instances this so called well development fee
could be and should be utilized. The impact of the pressurized irrigation is to utilize
waters that are available and not let those waters pass through Meridian for
downstream use but to keep them here, use them, maintain the water rights and that
was the reason for the pressurized irrigation. Every once in a while we're going to run
into pieces of property for one reason or another that don't have adequate water
available to them that are of such a size that it's not feasible to provide a pump system
and in that case then I think this well development fee could be an alternative and I don't
know if you construe the language that Councilman Rountree read to be the well
development fee, if that's an allowance without a variance I don't know — but I think that
we need to keep in our back pocket this alternative for instances where water is not
available, surface water is not available, the size of the project is such that the
installation of a subsurface gathering device may not be economically feasible, but
again I think that needs to be proven to us by the Developer that those avenues are not
available and I can remember a small subdivision off of Cherry Lane, I don't remember
the name of it, it was a long straight street and they went out there and dug a shallow
well and they put in an irrigation system because they didn't have surface water that
was available on a regular basis and that was included as part of their development, so
it's always possible, nothing is impossible, some of these systems may be very small,
there have been individual lots in the City of Meridian that have just dug a shallow well,
10 -feet or so in depth, plenty of water for sprinkling of their lot, so alternatives are
available, the fee is an alternative but I think first and foremost we need to try and utilize
the waters that are available for sprinkling and not utilize domestic drinking water for
irrigation.
Bird: I agree with you Gary 100% but I think we need to be very consistent on what we
do. I mean, if the Developer proves he can't then we have a well development fee or
whatever you want to call it. I mean, for a four or five lot subdivision it isn't feasible for
him to put in a big well but I think we've just got to either — if they can't put in
pressurized irrigation or pay for a new well like our ordinance says then I think they
have to go for a variance and if one does, all does.
Gigray: Mr. Mayor, point of information to the Mayor and the Council, it would be my
opinion that in the variance process you're given certain flexibility but what you can
grant variances and you can grant them subject to conditions and I think you've got a lot
more leeway through the variance process than you do with the language of this
ordinance without making the requirement of final plat the condition of the ordinance as
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 54
it's stated. Now we can change this ordinance if we come up with some rational to
change it but you also have the variance process in there so if they need relief and they
can make the basic proof would follow right in line with what Gary just mentioned then
they can make that case and then you can deal with the variance.
Corrie: Any further comments?
Rountree: I'm not sure you want to hear what I have to say.
Corrie: Let's take a look at it.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor, I think we all recognize the potential problem and possible error
in our ways but it seems to me that this particular development has gone through the
process and we've all been aware of the inability to provide surface water, I'm sure by
record you could see discussions from the Council as well as the applicant as well as
staff discussing well development fees or whatever those fees might be. I hate to see
them sit yet another couple weeks to a month waiting for a subdivision final plat
approval because we're learning a lesson here. Having said that I would hope that we
can resolve this water issue that we've got tonight but I would recommend that based on
what the applicant said tonight and the willingness to move forward with the fee that we
approve the final plat and let them move forward.
Bird: Second. Subject to conditions.
Rountree: Subject to conditions.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Staff? Motion made by Mr. Rountree, second by Mr. Bird to approve the final
plat of Sue's Subdivision by Mike Stipa with the approval of the conditions of staff. Any
further discussion? Hearing none. All those in favor of the motion say aye. Opposed
no?
1:11210]WAIRWAY 0]
20. FINAL PLAT FOR SCOTTSDALE SUBDIVISION (8 BUILDING LOTS) BY
WOLFE COMMERCIAL ENTERPRISES, LLC — SOUTH OF FRANKLIN RD &
WEST OF SOUTH WEST 7T" AVE.:
Corrie: Staff?
Stiles: I believe that the way it's written now that it did allow you to make that
determination and I'm glad that you did make the determination you did on these two
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 55
plats. My biggest issue is when somebody comes in and represents that they are
providing pressurized irrigation, I do have the final plat for Maws Addition No. 1
submitted in June of 1992, their application clearly indicates they're providing
pressurized irrigation, I remember when I first started work here that they had very bold
advertisement that they are providing pressurized irrigation and I got the comments and
the complaints from the people that bought those lots and found out they were
paying for city water for their subdivision. There's clearly a big difference between
someone that comes in and tells us they don't have the water rights, Nampa -Meridian
says no, we can't provide you the water and someone that's submitting a final plat in
June goes to Nampa -Meridian in November of the same year to exclude themselves
from the district so it's not that the Maw's Addition did not have water rights it's that they
chose to get out of it and they can get back in just as easy as they got out so thank you
very much for that one. Scottsdale Subdivision looks great! They're providing
pressurized irrigation and I don't think they have any problems, it's nice to have a plat
submitted where they did everything you asked them to and you're not having to start
over with the same comments that you made on the preliminary plat so staff
recommends approval of the Scottsdale Subdivision.
Corrie: Is there anybody here from Scottsdale Subdivision that wants to argue the
point?
Briggs: There's this one fine point. Item #1 in the site specific requirements, it's just a
clarification that says to put sewer to and through, we're kind of a enclave and it would
be pretty confusing to try and take sewer to people that already have it, so I just would
like that stricken.
(Inaudible discussion)
Corrie: Okay, thank you. Any further discussion Council? Hearing none. I'll entertain
a motion on the final plat.
Bird: Mr. Mayor, I move that we approve the final plat for Scottsdale Subdivision by
Wolfe Commercial Enterprises, L.L.C., south of Franklin Rd. and west of S.W. 7t"
Avenue with the conditions set forth by the Public Works changing the wording in site
specific #1 to eliminate "and through".
Bentley: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bird, second by Mr. Bentley to approve the final plat
subject to conditions stated in the motion. Any further discussion? Hearing none. All
those in favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 56
21. REQUEST BY STEVE YOUNGERMAN FOR A STREET DANCE IN THE
LUMBERMAN'S PARKING LOT JUNE 18TH:
Corrie: Item #21 I'm just going to entirely skip it. I don't think we need — sorry Steve.
Bentley: We danced all night anyway.
(Inaudible discussion)
Youngerman: It's the same Dairy Days street dance we did last year, same set-up, so
we'll make sure there's no open containers floating around. We'll start it at — what's the
noise ordinance, what time?
Rountree: Eleven.
Youngerman: Well I think it will be done — we're going to start it right as the end of the
parade goes by, I don't think it's going to last till eleven if we start it that early.
Corrie: Council, any questions of Steve?
Bird: No, I'd just like to say that we went up last year and spent an hour or so up there
and it was very well organized, very nice.
Corrie: Okay, if there are no further questions I'll entertain a motion for the request by
Steve Youngerman for a street dance in the Lumberman's parking lot June 18tH
Bird: I move that we give Steve Youngerman the go ahead for a street dance at the
Lumberman's parking lot on June 18th, not to go past 11 p.m.
Bentley: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bird, second by Mr. Bentley to approve the request by
Steve Youngerman for the street dance at the Lumberman's parking lot June 18th, not to
go past the eleven p.m. hour. Any further discussion? Hearing none. All those in favor
say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
22. A. 1. DEPARTMENT REPORTS: JANICE SMITH: TREASURER'S UPDATE:
Smith: You all received in your box this evening your expenditure report for the month
of May and also the investment report. I know we're having a little trouble getting the
reports from the investment — to get those printed out in a timely manner to review them
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 57
so I don't have any comments on the investment other than if you have had time to go
through it, if not, get back to me later to go over any points that you see that needs to be
explained. It's just the summary, if you need detail I have it here in the book here.
What I handed out to you just a minute ago was updates for the budget fiscal year 2000.
If you look at the revenue report, that's the green sheet, we've calculated the property
taxes and franchise fees that would be coming in. The next step is to get with the
departments on what they project that would come in, we do have on this revenue
report is the actual 1997-1998 and also what was budgeted so that will give you a good
figure. I've also — while I was waiting for the other agenda — I printed out a percentage
of increase which I'll make before you leave tonight. It shows the increase of the 1999
budget, the 2000 budget and I put a formula off to the right that will calculate out the
percentage increase or decrease, I think that will be helpful. Also, the 1997 and 1998
has been reviewed and is the actual figures so I think this will help on your budget
workshops. Did you have any questions on any of these? I know you just got them
tonight but —
Rountree: Janice, will you have some projected figures for the other revenue sources?
Smith: Yes I could, I would like to get with the department over those and I was going
to work on that tomorrow.
Rountree: Okay.
Corrie: Any other questions, Council?
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Anderson: I have none.
Rountree: Looks good.
Bentley: Looks good.
Smith: Thank you.
Corrie: Council's going to have to get some ideas about wages here shortly so we can
get some figures to give to the department heads on cost of living, if you want to go that
word, or one of the other words that we've talked about so just keep that in mind.
22. B. 1. TOM KUNTZ: APPROVAL TO SELECT CONSULTANT FOR PARKS
AND RECREATION COMPREHENSIVE PLAN:
Kuntz: First item I have is approval to select a consultant for the Parks & Recreation
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 58
Comprehensive Plan. I handed out a memo earlier tonight describing that we had four
firms who submitted proposals. We narrowed those down to two finalists. We had a
sub -committee made up of four commission members and myself and after reference
checks, narrowed that down to our top selection who is Landerman-Moore Associates
of Anacortes, Washington. What I'm asking for is approval to move ahead with making
contractual arrangements and also fine tuning the scope of work that we would be
requesting.
Bentley: Tom, do we have a not to exceed amount on this?
Kuntz: $25,000.00
Bird: Is that what you're here for, do you want to select this firm Tom, is this the one
you guys have selected?
Kuntz: Correct.
Bird: Mr. Mayor, I move that we select Landerman-Moore Associates to do our
consultant for our Park & Recreation Comprehensive Plan with a figure not to exceed
$25,000.00.
Bentley: Second.
Corrie: Motion is made and seconded to approve the fee proposal of Landerman-Moore
Associates in the amount of $25,000.00 not to exceed. Any further discussion?
Rountree: Tom , if you and the selection committed having used criteria related to
expertise and individuals that may work on this project, I would suggest that don't
assume they'll work on the project, include that in the contract language so that they
won't be drafted onto another project and we become the training ground for new
employees, so I think you should definitely include that in the contract language.
Kuntz: I appreciate that.
Corrie: Good point. Hearing none. All those in favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
22. B. 2. RECOMMENDATION TO RESTRICT DOGS IN TULLY PARK:
Kuntz: Second item you should have in your mailbox tonight, an ordinance pertaining to
the restriction of dogs in Tully Park. Did everybody — This is an ordinance drafted by
our City Attorney Bill Gigray. It is drafted in such a way that will enable us to add
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 59
additional policy rules type of thing in our park system as we grow. Mr. Gigray I don't
know if you wanted to comment on that or not.
Gigray: Mr. Mayor, members of the Council, we have been working with the codifiers,
you know we're about ready to get the last bit of ordinances in so we can get ourselves
a new code here and I've worked with them and I anticipate that we will have more park
regulations as time goes on so what we're going to — they're trying to dedicate a chapter
for park regulations so this is kind of set up with that in mind and it looks like a lot of
structure for one particular thing to prohibit dogs in Tully Park but it's designed so that
as we may develop more criteria that would apply to that park we can add it in here.
The definitions that are included in here is Tom's office provided us with a legal
description, I thought we should have that in the ordinance so it's clear what Tully Park
is and we use the definition for canine out of a comprehensive animal control ordinance
that I'm familiar with and then we'd also use the definition for owners so that if we don't
get into the issue of well this isn't my dog, well if they have custody of the dog or
whatever, they're walking (end of tape) -- statute is middle ground, Federal law is — the
Lord brought that forth so you never challenge that so if you provide a little rash now in
your ordinances I think it helps insulate against those kind of challenges, so with that
kind of background that's what this was prepared. I anticipate we'll be doing something
with Fothergill and you know all those license agreement provisions that we've got we're
going to have to go forward with some regulations so that we can cite people when
they're in there when they're doing what we don't want them doing.
Corrie: I guess Council would like to look at this for the next meeting, or do you want to
do it this meeting or — since we just saw it tonight.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor, I have a couple of comments. One, -- and I haven't had a chance
to go over this, but it doesn't seem to me that this makes provisions for guide dogs or
other canine uses for handicapped or impaired people, and there are a lot of additional
uses besides just guide dogs for the blind, I think we need to be sensitive to that. The
other issue is that I can understand where we're going with not wanting dogs in a
particular park but if we'll remember we have some neighbors down there that are
particularly inclined to raise pot bellied pigs and they get out on occasion and this
doesn't preclude those pot bellied pigs, it doesn't keep me from bringing my cats,
though I don't have any, or my pet boa constrictor, or my pet cougar. The problem with
these kinds of things is where do you stop. I can cite you an instance in our building, in
downtown Boise where we had to put up signs in a public service office to disallow
animals because people were bringing in boa constrictors, waiting in line to get their
driver's license, or pet mountain lions — now this stuff happens! I just point that out
because, you know, try as we might we're not going to get all of the little nuances of this
taken care of. Maybe we need to look at animal control as opposed to dog control, but
again I don't have a problem with this ordinance but — other than if we're going to speak
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 60
to canine, we need to be sensitive to those uses that allow folks with disabilities to
utilize that park.
Corrie: You would restrict canine seeing eye dogs.
Rountree: Oh you would.
Corrie: In this case. I --
Bentley: Mr. Mayor, then maybe the appropriate thing we need to do is send this to the
workshop and have everybody review it in the meantime and see if we can't get the
language turned around to what we need for the next meeting.
Corrie: Thank you. Is there —
Rountree: There are counsels too that will help you too that could provide you with
information about what disabilities might need assistance with dogs so that we could
write in the appropriate language and that's a very good point.
Bird: ADA can help.
Corrie: In agreement the whole is for a workshop project then? Okay —
Kuntz: Just for clarification then, do you want me to work with Mr. Gigray and bring it
back to you or will it go back to another workshop before the Council or —
Corrie: What was your suggestion on that, how do you want to handle it?
Anderson: Well the Council hasn't really had a chance to review it since we just got it
tonight.
Corrie: Well then why don't you work with the attorney then and see what you can
come up with.
Anderson: And we can pull it all together at the workshop and twist the language
around and see if we can find something that will work.
Kuntz: So it will go back to the Council for another workshop or do you want me to
bring it back to you after we've reworked the —
Corrie: Why don't you work it and then bring it back to the workshop.
Kuntz: Okay, great.
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 61
Anderson: Comment, I think Councilman Rountree you know and we're trying to get
this ready so Tom can make this presentation, brings up an excellent point. One of the
things you get into with regulations in public settings is you get all these exceptions and
it can get be a huge can of worms but there can be some very legitimate reasons to
regulate and what I was trying to do with this is kind of get us knowing we're going to
head in that direction we've got to get a little format to work with —
Rountree: That's fine.
Anderson: -- but we can try to — if disabilities is one of your main concerns we can try to
source that to get the appropriate information.
22. B. 3. TOM KUNTZ: DISCUSSION OF GENERATIONS PLAZA OPENING
CEREMONY:
Kuntz: The third thing you have is an order of events for the Generation Plaza
dedication, which is this Friday at 4:00 p.m. We've sent out approximately 300
invitations and if you don't want to take the time to comment tonight that's fine, if you
want to give our office a call if you've got suggestions. There are two additions that we
plan on making right now. One is to have the Chamber of Commerce President speak
at some point and also recognize the Burns family in the ceremony, possible maybe
helping the Mayor cut the ribbon at the entrance, but if you've got other suggestions or
ideas we're certainly open to hearing those. I don't want to take your time up tonight so
if you'd like to call our office great, if you have the suggestions tonight I'll take those.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor, I'm going to be out of town at a graduation ceremony and I was
going to ask you if you would express my regrets for not being able to be there and my
delight in the opening of the Plaza. After being in on the ground breaking ceremonies
some almost three years ago it's great to see that we've got something finally. So if
you'd do that for me and apologize for my absence I'd appreciate that.
Bentley: Mr. Mayor, I too appreciate the work that Tom and especially the committee
did and the Girl Scouts for help in getting it going, I will not be here either as I will be out
of town, so if you could pass on my thank to all I would appreciate it.
Rountree: Ron, were you going to be there?
Anderson: I too will be out of town (inaudible) — so if you would pass on the (inaudible)
Corrie: Alright, I know Mr. Bird's going to be there so —
Bird: I wouldn't miss this after five years for nothing.
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 62
Rountree: I don't want to but —
Corrie: I understand and that's perfectly understandable and probably Keith if you want
to say something you can.
Bird: No, Lila will. You'll do fine Mayor.
Corrie: Alright, okay I will do so, thank you.
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Kuntz: Mayor, one last item that's not on my list but I've got two change orders that
came through for Generations Plaza. One of them is as you recall we lowered the wall
by twelve inches, the front two walls after discovering that they really obscured the
vision into the rest of the Plaza. That change order is for $668.00 to lower the wall by
twelve inches and then the second one is to apply a vandal guard, graffiti resistant
coating to all of the masonry and stucco and that's a total of $310.00, so I'd like
approval to have the Mayor sign off on those tomorrow.
Bird: What's the total Tom? Three hundred and what and —
Kuntz: Six hundred and sixty-eight for cutting the wall —
Bird: Nine seventy eight?
Kuntz: Yes sir.
Corrie: Mr. Bentley?
Bentley: Mr. Mayor, I move that we approve the two change orders for a total of
$978.00 for Generations Plaza.
Rountree: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bentley, second by Mr. Rountree to approve the change
orders totaled $978.00. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the
motion say aye. Opposed no?
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Anderson: Mr. Mayor, on the cutting down of the wall Tom, I don't know who caught
that but they sure did a great job of catching that because that really improved the looks
in the park.
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 63
Rountree: There were about three of us at the same time that came to that realization
that it was too high.
Anderson: Yeah, but boy that was a good catch before it got finished so -- and it didn't
impact the lettering at all, the lettering looks great.
Kuntz: We are going to have a second dedication, we have to replace the large plate
that has the Mayor and the Council members names on it, it was approved with the
correct spelling on Rountree and when it came and got concreted in it has a "d" in his
name, and then also that back wall will be finished up during the month of July.
Rountree: It just proved they're human.
Kuntz: Thank you.
Corrie: Okay, thank you Tom.
(Inaudible)
22. C. 1. GARY SMITH: ADOPTION OF CITY SANITARY SEWER INTERCEPTOR
SYSTEM MAP:
Corrie: Gary?
Smith: First item on the agenda tonight under my department is a request to adopt the
City Sanitary Sewer Interceptor System Map and the study that J -U -B Engineers has
completed of which they have completed a draft. I don't know how much time you've
had to review the document, it's got a lot of information in it and Phil (inaudible), the
author of the document is here this evening from J -U -B Engineers to answer any
questions that you might have. I also brought along some maps that they had prepared
for the three different study areas along with a total system map. I think the executive
summary is good reading and it is a summary of what the study is about. It highlights
three areas that we have some immediate concerns with of our existing system, along
with the information on our ten year Capital Improvement Plan. So if you have any
questions, I believe also that the City Attorney prepared a draft resolution to accept this
study. It wasn't intended that you do this tonight unless you're so inclined. It's very
straight forward, it's only a page and a quarter long, Mr. Gigray outdid himself — double
spaced even, right. He was headed for band practice and I told him he had to
(inaudible) — first things first.
Bird: What resolution number is this?
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 64
Rountree: Mr. Berg, what's the number?
Corrie: I asked that three times already.
Rountree: 238.
Corrie: Okay.
Smith: Is there anything that you would like to look at on the map, the large scale
drawings, or any questions that you might have of Phil or myself this evening on this
study?
Bentley: I have a question. When are we going to start the north end?
Smith: Well, I think that's the direction that I'm looking for from the Council and the
Mayor is where you want to go. There are people tugging at us from all directions it
seems.
Bentley: Well, we've got a time clock running on part of it.
Smith: Yes we do, and that part of it I think we're going to accomplish in a relatively
short period of time and it mainly revolves around that Vienna Woods Subdivision, but
we're going to be doing a temporary fix for that, of which part of my thoughts and Phil's
thoughts would be construction of that no -name trunk and we can then pump from that
northeast area into that no -name which will not impact the south slew or the Five Mile
Trunk which is on a critical path right at the moment.
Bentley: And I think also that in some short time we're probably going to need to sit
down at a workshop session and go over this and get our directions mapped out.
Smith: Yes.
Anderson: I guess the other thing I'd like to have is maybe something about when these
subdivisions come in for approval we were told in that study that part of these lines
could only accommodate so many houses is kind of a running total of where we're at on
each one of those lines each time we approve one of those subdivisions, and then also
a plan on the areas where we were at capacity and where we needed to parallel those
and do some of those I'd like to really look into those and see what we can do to make
those fixes in addition to the no -name trunk line that you're talking about.
Smith: Right, and Phil and his staff did a good job in pointing out that Councilman
Anderson in that executive summary under existing system on page two. Those three
sections of line need to be paralleled and we need to get involved in that right away and
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 65
as you can see the number of homes that we have on reserve capacity for those three
lines is very limited. So you're exactly right, those three projects are probably projects
we need to address next year, next year's budget.
Corrie: Gary, when are we going to bore that under 1-84 just north --or west of Eagle
Road?
Smith: Well, I was hoping that we'd be able to do that fairly soon. I've been trying to
run a water line project with it and Briggs Engineering has got the engineering
completed on the sewer line, J -U -B Engineers has the engineering completed on the
water line, it's just a matter of coordinating those two now. I've been in contact with
Craig Groves and Gary Voigt and they both say that they're going to move right ahead
with it, straight away. I don't have anything in a written form, but in order to coordinate
the water and the sewer they need to go together and I need to get the water across
right away because we've got two bores, the water's up here and the sewer's down here
quite a bit deeper but they're only six feet apart horizontally so they've got to happen at
the same time.
Corrie: Yeah, I've had two inquiries already in the past two days.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor excuse me, it seems to me that there's not a whole lot of
difference between any of the Councilman on where we need to go and what needs to
be done. I think we're all pretty much in general agreement that the no -name trunk is
the trunk to concentrate on at the moment, that the three projects do parallel the lines
where we have some great problems need to be advanced as well as the boring under
1-84. 1 don't know that we need another workshop to come to those conclusions. We
are in a forum now to where we can make decisions. I guess I'm prepared to make a
motion that we have the City Engineer advance the preliminary engineering and
budgets for all five of those activities if you will, and present that to Council so we can
bless the numbers and know what we'll be looking at for the remainder of this year and
what we'll be looking at in terms of budget next year.
Bird: I'll second that, and the sooner the better.
Corrie: Okay.
Bentley: Yeah I would agree with that, and my purpose for maybe having more
discussions in a workshop is to maybe go over some of the points for future projects
that we may not have an idea on to get his input because he can understand this
document where the rest of us probably don't really have a hard feel but my whole point
was to get the north quadrant rolling and the boring and the parallels to fix our problems
that's a definite must so I'm definitely in favor of giving you the go ahead and turn the
lights on and get after it.
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 66
Rountree: Glenn, my intent is not to stifle the conversations with Gary on what it is we
need and where we need to go but he needs some guidance from us and right now is
probably better than a month from now.
Bentley: Well I agree.
Corrie: Okay, a motion before the floor made by Mr. Rountree and seconded by Mr.
Bird. All those in favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Smith: Thank you Mayor.
Bentley: I would move we approve Resolution No. 238.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bentley, second by Mr. Bird to approve Resolution No. 238.
Any further discussion? Hearing none. All those in favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
22. C. 2. GARY SMITH: AERATION BASIN/PUMPING FACILITIES CHANGE ORDER
NO. 4 WASTEWATER TREATMENT PLANT MODIFICATIONS:
Smith: Thank you Mr. Mayor and Council members, I appreciate it, we'll move right
ahead. Second item I have is change order No. 4 for the aeration base and pumping
facilities at the Wastewater Treatment Plant. I believe you have in your packet tonight
the agenda item No. 22 C.2, which is that dissertation on the request for the change
order. This is information coming back to you from a previous Council meeting where
this information request was made by the project engineer from Keller Associates for
extended overhead costs claim by the Contractor who is Turnkey Incorporated out of
Ontario, Oregon. My memo to you outlines the reason for the extended overhead costs
and it's all based on the length of contract time allowance that was extended because of
situations at the plant primarily the failure of that one wall on the aeration basin. There
were some other factors that happen during the length of the contract that caused it to
be extended and these extended overhead costs are costs that were reflected in the
extension of the contract, the time of the contract. Dennis also copied off some pages
from the contract document and underlined the appropriate areas that speak to these
costs that are allowed. Also, the Contractor was assessed some liquidated damages
because some of the contract time overrun was his making and that amounted to
$9500.00. The detailed information that was submitted by the Contractor at the back of
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 67
the packet has been reviewed by Dennis Sukanan of Keller Associates and has been
reduced in accordance with what Dennis feels is appropriate. It was reduced from the
amount submitted by the Contractor of $35,619.00 down to $24,611.00. Reducing the
amount of the claim by the amount of the liquidated damages of $9,500.00 results in a
net claim of $15,111.00 and it's Dennis' recommendation that we make this offer to the
Contractor. I don't believe the Contractor has seen this change order request.
Bird: He hasn't signed off on it.
Smith: He hasn't signed it, correct.
Bird: Is it fair Gary, to you?
Smith: Yes. After reviewing all the figures I don't think the Contractor's going to have a
problem with it, he just started a project out there.
Bird: Mr. Mayor, I move that we approve the change order for the aeration
basin/pumping facility for the sum of $15, 111.00 to Turnkey Construction and for the
Mayor to sign subject to the Contractor's agreement.
Rountree: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bird, second by Mr. Rountree to approve the aeration
basin/pumping facility change order to Turnkey in the amount of $15,111.00. Any
further discussion? Hearing none. All those in favor of the motion say aye. Opposed
no.
MOTION CARRIED: 3 AYES, 1 NO.
Smith: Are there any questions that you would have of me this evening? Thank you.
Bird: Thank you, Gary.
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Corrie: Okay, Mr. Bill Gordon.
Gordon: I received notification from the Federal Government that our grant for two
additional police officers has been accepted. It is a three year grant diminishing, the
first year they pay 75%, second year is 50%, and the last year is 25%. We were the
only Police Department in the state of Idaho to receive a grant. We have 90 days in
which to sign off on this and get back to them. Any questions?
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 68
Bird: Chief, tell me what the 75% pay is, does it pay 75% of their taxable salary?
Gordon: Seventy-five percent of wages and benefits.
Bird: Okay, the wages and benefits. No part of their equipment or anything like that we
furnish?
Gordon: No sir.
Bird: And the seventy-five, fifty and twenty-five over a three year period.
Gordon: Yes, total a hundred and fifty thousand dollars is what we get from the Federal
Government.
Rountree: For the three years.
Bird: For the three years per officer.
Gordon: That's the total.
Bird: That's what I thought, for two officers, seventy-five apiece.
Gordon: Yes sir.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Rountree?
Rountree: When does the countdown start, the ninety days?
Gordon: Once I receive the acceptance which they assured me is in the mail so I'm
guessing about September, it'll be the end of the ninety days, just prior to the budget
year.
Bentley: When do they have to be hired?
Gordon: Like the last two, just within a year. Once it's approved then I can slow down
and I've got time to go through the hiring process, it takes approximately two to three
months to go through testing and hiring by the time we do the backgrounds and all the
testing. So in essence we could be looking at November, December, before I could get
them on.
Corrie: Chief, what do you anticipate these fifteen new liquor license to be presented.
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 69
Gordon: I presently don't have any idea. The Director of Alcohol Beverage Control kind
of assured me that unless somebody actually pressured them they're not going to
arbitrarily issue them. He also assured me that they're not going to issue all fifteen at
one time realizing that that would be suicide.
Corrie: Yeah, your relationship of needs of officers in bars are very related.
Gordon: Yes, they are.
Corrie: I'm not telling you something you don't already know but....
Gordon: Approximately fifty percent of my work is due to bars, right down to domestic
violence, vandalism, fights, drunk drivers, crashes and if there was some way we could
tax bars on a user type situation I think the citizens of Meridian pay for servicing bars far
more than the bars do, so I'm not excited about fifteen more bars.
Bentley: Chief, with the new population figures where are we at on officers per
thousand?
Gordon: With the thirty-seven seven we're down to 1.1 per thousand. I anticipate by
the time the budget year hits we'll be at thirty-eight thousand at the rate we're growing.
Bentley: What's the state at?
Gordon: The state average is 1.7 per thousand, national is 1.6.
Bird: What's Boise?
Gordon: Boise's running about 1.3 to 1.4, they're looking at putting on another thirty
officers when they annex thirty thousand more people, and by the way they're going to
hire nothing but certified officers so I anticipate they're going to try and snatch some of
our people so — I don't blame them, they're good guys.
Bentley: Well, they want the best.
Gordon: They're trained. I would recommend that sometime between the next three
years we're going to need these guys and this is the last of this grant, so I would
recommend that we take advantage of it.
Bentley: Mr. Mayor, I make a motion that we accept the grant for these two officers.
Corrie: Okay, do I here a second.
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 70
Rountree: I'll second it.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bentley, second by Mr. Rountree that we accept the grant
for the two additional officers within the thirty day period. Further discussion?
Anderson: Just a point of clarification about what does accept the grant mean?
Corrie: That you accept that you're going to get the seventy-five, fifty and twenty-five
over a three year period of approximately a hundred and fifty thousand dollars to hire
two officers, to help pay for those two officers.
Anderson: I guess what I'm getting at I mean is we're going to be working next month
through the budgeting process and determining the needs for each department and the
hiring, does this commit us to at this point hiring two officers or is this just to accept the
grant, I mean we've already applied for the grant.
Corrie: Right, if you accept it then you have to make the decision of when you want to
hire them.
Anderson: Does it still give us the flexibility to either hire or not hire these two guys is
what I'm asking?
Bird: Yes.
Gordon: That's correct.
Rountree: That's been my understanding in the past.
Gordon: It's not locked in concrete.
Anderson: In the past before this grant was due to run out, if you accepted the grant
and then did not hire within the specified time then you were penalized that you couldn't
apply for three years for the grant. This grant was only extended for one more year so
the grant virtually dies unless they extend it again at the end of the cycle.
Gordon: The penalty would be a mute point.
Corrie: Any further discussion? Hearing none. All in favor of the motion say aye.
Opposed no.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 71
Gordon: One more item that isn't on here, I'd like to compliment Mr. Gigray and his staff
as far as Steve Rutherford and Kathy Edwards, the quantity and the quality of
prosecution that we're getting out of those two is probably the best that I've seen in my
career so —thank you.
Gigray: I might add I have loads of confidence in those two, I think they have done an
excellent job and Steve's been with us the longest and he helped get Kathy trained and
into this and I'm just real happy and I appreciate the Chief's comments.
Corrie: Kathy goes after them doesn't she.
Gigray: Yes, she does. She won another one today I think.
Corrie: Oh did she? I wouldn't want to go up against her but I'm not an attorney so --
Bill Gordon — he already did that. Kenny Bowers, fire protection agreement with
Nampa.
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Bowers: Mayor Corrie and City Council members, we had not had a mutual aid
agreement between Nampa and Meridian, it's always been just a handshake and with
the problems going around people wanting to sue everything and everybody we decided
we better get some things down in writing. This is a mutual aid agreement between
Meridian and Nampa and what this is is if they need manpower or any other equipment
and ask for it we are able to go over and supply it or vise versa. There's also wording in
this contract that if I have people on emergencies already that we can say no to Nampa
and we won't need to scrounge and leave our city unprotected which I will not do. The
Meridian Rural Commissioners have already signed it, Ron was going to take it to his
Commissioners last night and we thought we'd bring it to the City Council tonight and if
you guys have any questions we'd sure like to answer them for you.
Corrie: Kenny, since a handshake isn't any good anymore is that because of Ron's
being here?
(Inaudible)
Bentley: Kenny, has the attorney reviewed this?
Bowers: Yes Councilman Bentley, the attorney for the Rural has went through it, our
attorney Gigray has went through it, Nampa's attorney has went through it, so all of
them have went through it and did their final is and I's and it took us quite awhile but we
got it fixed up.
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 72
Bentley: Thank you.
Bowers: Was there any wording in there you had questions on or anything?
Bird: What's the resolution number?
Bentley: That's the only wording we're missing.
Bowers: And Ron, do you have the originals?
(Inaudible)
Bentley: Mr. Mayor, I move we approve Resolution No. 239, authorize the Mayor to
sign and the Clerk to attest.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion made and seconded that we approve Resolution No. 239, Mayor to sign
and the Clerk to attest. Any further discussion? Hearing none. All those in favor of the
motion say aye. Opposed no.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
22. F. 1. MAYOR CORRIE: SET UP MEETING TIME FOR RURAL FIRE BUDGET:
Corrie: Set up a time for the Rural Fire budget, when do you guys want to meet with the
Rural on the budget?
Anderson: Mr. Mayor, just a comment. Most of us have forgot but in that Joint Powers
Agreement that the City signed with the Rural Fire District last year there was a clause
in there that we would meet ninety days prior to the budgeting process and go over
capital expenditures and things like that with the Rural District and most of us have
forgot that and that's why they are requesting this meeting and I think it's probably
prudent that we discuss that with them with all the plans of this station coming on line
and then the planning for the second substation.
Rountree: Okay, the question is when?
Anderson: How about the twenty-ninth?
Corrie: Of June?
Bird: Okay with me.
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 73
Bentley: Might as well tie up another Tuesday.
Bird: We've got them all tied up this month, we might as well finish them out.
Corrie: Does that seem reasonable to everybody? I'll entertain a motion to —
Rountree: I don't have a problem with that, go ahead and set it up.
Corrie: Alright we'll just set it up for 6-29-99 at 7:00.
22. F. 2. MAYOR CORRIE: SET UP MEETING TIME FOR NICK CORRAL:
Corrie: Set up meeting time for Nick Corral. They seem to think that they want to be
face to face and I guess we can, they would like to meet with Council I guess on some
disagreements about not being — class compensation. After reading the contract forty-
five times I don't think they have a grievance but we need to sit down and talk to them
so when would you like to do that?
Rountree: That's a Council (inaudible)
Corrie: It's just a matter of sitting down and telling them how you feel. I don't imagine
whatever we do it's not going to please them but the way we looked at it there was not a
grievance procedure there anyway, the Chief had the opportunity to do that.
Bird: I think there's just a misunderstanding of stuff and I feel that we owe them the
right to at least sit down and talk to them. (inaudible)
Rountree: What's the format of that session? Is that an executive session because it
relates to the Union contract or —
Corrie: I would imagine it would be — yeah, a grievance procedure (inaudible)
department. It's not going to take very long —
Anderson: Just do an executive session and discuss personnel matters.
Bentley: That would be an executive session.
Corrie: Yeah, it would be you're right. If you want to meet with them on the twenty-ninth
you can have the executive session and —
Anderson: Mr. Mayor, what about the twenty-second?
Rountree: The twenty-second would be fine.
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 74
Bird: We've got that meeting —
Bentley: We've got that special meeting on the --
Corrie: Okay after we get done with that meeting we'll go into executive session and tell
them — and I'll send a letter to Nick Corral registered that it will be on 6/22/99.
22. G. 1. SHARI STILES: CONTRACT FOR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN UPDATE WITH
SAIC:
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, we have finally worked out the details of a contract for
the Comprehensive Plan update. I don't know if you've had a chance to read this or not.
Gigray: Mr. Mayor, members of the Council, Shari, I had Steve vanguard this because
was out of town and I wanted to be sure we got it done but Steve did show m e the last
version, I reviewed it, I gave it back to him, he's I think supplied it to you, we feel that
we've accomplished what we wanted to accomplish and I can tell you that Shari and our
office have gone through a number of issues on this proposed agreement. One of the
things that I think we want to maintain a vigilance for the City about is I'm seeing quite
often from engineering circles, architectural circles and some of these consulting type
agreements where they want to limit their liability only to the amount that is paid, there
are all kinds of limited warranty provisions and other things in these things and we're
trying to maintain a fairly hard posture about not exceeding those kinds of requests and
I think we've bandied back and forth with this group for some time and we've now got an
agreement that we're comfortable with and I believe that Shari believes that this is the
best group to perform this —
Stiles: Yes, we did meet, we had a committee meet and interview the two remaining
applicants for the Comp. Plan update. We selected SAIC, they did have good
references from the people they had done work with. They did some work for Twin
Falls, also Kuna, and their contract price is $63,031.00. They have outlined a time line
in their statement of qualifications, it was eighteen months, they will try to work to
shorten that up if they can, part of the problem is it's real hard to hurry up a
Comprehensive Plan update and I think that part of the problem we had with getting this
contract together was there's a lot of people, planners that are doing these
Comprehensive Plan updates that have learned from the experience of Eagle and what
they're going through right now and that's why they're so cautious now is because they
end up losing money on the deal because of the extensive public hearing process but
hopefully we won't have the same experience Eagle's had.
Rountree: Properly managed, that doesn't have to happen.
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 75
Bird: They said eighteen months, is that right?
Stiles: Their statement of qualification has a time line of eighteen months.
Bird: Is there any penalty if they don't make it with eighteen months?
Stiles: No.
Rountree: That's pretty good.
Bird: Well I was going to say it's pretty good, I'm questioning their mentality if they were
going to give us back money if they went over.
Corrie: Considering that I think they can, if we get all our apples in the row here.
Rountree: I'd make the same comment to you Shari about personnel (inaudible) earlier,
there's people in SAIC that drew you to that company because you thought they'd do
you a good job, you'd best identify them in this agreement that they're the ones that are
going to do you the job or I guarantee you with the workload they've got you're going to
end up with somebody you've never heard of and you may not like it.
Stiles: They have identified Dale Ralstin as their team and Sherri Freemouth and in
their statement of qualifications they did identify the main people that would be working
on the project.
Rountree: But that doesn't mean a thing, you may never see those people, so you need
to be real specific that you want some of those qualified people to work on this, you
need to tell them that.
Stiles: We did add in the scope of work that they would update it as requested in our
request for qualifications and in accordance with their statement of qualifications but at
$61.00 an hour — that's a good idea, so we don't have the $15.00 an hour secretary
doing most of the work.
Rountree: Don't learn the hard way.
Stiles: Do we want to do that in this contract then or —
Gigray: I'd leave it to the judgement of the Council and the Mayor. One of the
leverages I think we can have is a business leverage and that is in a response that has
been represented to us who those people will be and that we expect that they will
perform it and send that back and a letter that we relied on those representations as a
condition of entering into the agreement and we could move forward with it this evening.
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 76
We have prepared a resolution on this simply because I think Steve was waiting on
Shari to get back with him, she figured we were okay on this. I think if you want to move
forward, we'll just submit a resolution for the Clerk to have on this and you can sign later
if you want to take action tonight.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor, I move that we authorize the City to enter into an agreement with
SAIC for the update and revitalization of the Meridian City Comprehensive Plan for an
amount not to exceed $63,031.00 and not to exceed a duration of eighteen months.
:3R"iE• E 0=0 @1
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Rountree, second by Mr. Bird. (End of tape) the SAIC with
conditions stated in the motion. Is there any further discussion? Hearing none. All
those in favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Stiles: Thank you.
Corrie: Thank you. I'll entertain a motion that we adjourn at 11:45 p.m.
Rountree: So moved.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: All those in favor say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 11:45 P.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
/G1WW00]T1'2191
ROBERT D. CORRIE, MAYOR
ATTEST:
WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., CITY CLERK