HomeMy WebLinkAbout1999 07-20MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING JULY 20, 1999
The regular meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 7:30 p.m. on
July 6, 1999 by Mayor Corrie.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Ron Anderson, Keith Bird, Glenn Bentley, Charlie Rountree.
OTHERS PRESENT: Mayor Bob Corrie, Will Berg, Bill Gordon, Tom Kuntz, Gary Smith,
Shari Stiles, and Steve Rutherford.
Corrie: I'll open the Meridian City Council Meeting, Tuesday July 20, 1999, 7:30 p.m.
Mr. Clerk could you have the roll call please? Thank you. I want to welcome everybody
here this evening and thank you for coming. Council you have the consent agenda,
Item A approval of the minutes from the previous meeting held July 6, and then Item B
the authorization for real estate purchase and sales agreement.
Bentley: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Bentley.
Bentley: I move we approve consent agenda items A & B.
Corrie: Do I hear a second?
Bird: I'll second it.
Corrie: Ok. On this the attorney will have to draw up a resolution and present that to
you at the next regular scheduled meeting in August, and if you have any questions
there. Any other discussions?
Bird: Mr. Mayor? That's when we get the resolution in and we'll discuss it?
Corrie: Right, that's correct.
Bird: That answered my question.
Corrie: Motion made and seconded we approve the consent agenda. All in favor
say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Corrie: Opposed, nay. All ayes.
ITEM #1 TABLED 7/6/99: APPEAL OF ZONING ADMINISTRATOR'S
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT REQUIREMENT BY CINDY CHACE d/b/a KID'S CLUB:
Corrie: Shari, we'll have you go first.
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July 20, 1999
Page2
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and council I believe this was tabled so they could come up with
some additional information regarding their original conditional use permit and why they
should not be required to go through a modification of that. This is the original plan that
was submitted with her conditional use permit. This is where the parking lot would be,
here's the single car garage, this is where the existing house is. This is the plan that
they've submitted with a (inaudible) conditional use permit application. We have not
started processing that yet, pending the outcome of this. This was the original house
and then the garage and this is the proposed building that they're showing. The staff
still maintains it is a modification of the existing conditional use permit and should follow
the procedures outlined in the ordinance.
Corrie: Does the council have any questions for Shari at this time?
Bentley: I have none.
Bird: I have none right now.
Corrie: Ok, I believe it's Mrs. Chace.
C. Chace: (inaudible)
Corrie: Give your name and address for the record please.
C. Chace: Do you want my home address?
Z.7TiC_ NO
C. Chace: Cindy Chace 1302 E. 1St St. In an attempt to do as you requested to get
together with the administrator, I met with her today and I was told that she was not
willing to discuss it and she had already made her decision. So I've prepared a
statement for you and if you have any questions, I'll address them. "I'm sure you are all
aware that Idaho ranks last in America's quality standards for child care. The standards
are set by the Department of Health and Welfare and it was those standards and those
of the Meridian Fire Department that we used when determining our capacity and when
we filed for our original conditional use permit. Last winter we determined that although
our capacity of 30 is adequate most of the year, when winter comes with inclimate
weather, the children can not be accommodated for ten hours a day, five days a week in
the current facility. We have complied with each aspect of the original conditions of the
conditional use permit and are requesting you to appeal the decision of the Planning
and Zoning Administrator to allow us to add an accessory building which meets all of
the planning and zoning criteria of accessory building, to the property to provide a
greater play area for the children; increasing the current 35 square foot per child to 63
1/3 square feet per child which is only an 8x8 space per child; without the need for an
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July 20, 1999
Page3
amended conditional use permit. We relied on the Department of Health and Welfare
telling us the space would be ample for our needs when indeed they turned out to be
inadequate. The argument of planning and zoning is we are requesting to change the
original conditional use permit and it should be reprocessed. However, aside from the
objection of Faye Buchanan regarding children darting into the center which could be
killed or injured, which is not an issue due to the required fencing, there were no
objections of the child care center and I find it unlikely that anyone would disapprove of
a child care center improving its quality. Thus, no need to have another hearing if the
conditions of the original conditional use permit have been followed."
Corrie: Ok, council, do you have some questions?
Rountree: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: The original conditional use permit spoke of only the use of the existing
property and the existing structures on the property. That was what was brought to the
public. That's what the public hearing addressed and that's what the public had an
opportunity to comment on. And if Shari's representation is correct, and is that a correct
representation of what it is you're going to do?
C. Chace: It is, but I don't want you to be misled by the size of the addition because it is
actually 38% of the building because it is a three-story building. So it looks like the
original is smaller, but it's not.
Rountree: But it's essentially the same layout and it would be in that particular location
on the property.
C. Chace: Yes. Well, we found out last week that there is one thing that it would have
to be set back into the back yard. We just did that for aesthetics for the city to make it
look nice, but if you wanted it set back into the back yard that wouldn't be a problem
either. But yes, we want to add that size of a space.
Rountree: I guess the point I'm making is that that concept was not part of the public
process in that part of town which requires a conditional use for that kind of conversion.
I can understand your frustration with the city's ordinances, but we have them and we
try to live with them to the benefit of all the folks in the community. I guess I'm of the
opinion that that's enough different than what was presented publicly previously that I
would probably have to lean towards Shari's recommendation of requiring an
amendment or a new conditional use permit. That's all I have to say.
Corrie: Any other comments, questions council.
Bird: I have none now.
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July 20, 1999
Page4
C. Chace: Thank you.
Corrie: Mr. Chace do you want to say anything?
R. (Raymond) Chace: I would, if that's alright. Again when I initially brought this
forward to the zoning administrator I was lead to believe this is simple accessory use
permit requirement. It's incidental to the building, we're increasing the capacity of the
child care, and we have not changed the conditional use permit for which this was
submitted. In answer to your question, Mr. Rountree, I was also under the impression
that the site of the conditional use permit was approved for the site for the buildings for
which it sat. However, I was lead to believe that when an additional building of a certain
size structure meeting certain bathroom, square footage requirements, kitchenette
requirements, it would be encompassed in that conditional use permit as an accessory,
as incidental to the building. Again, when I went before the administrator in February of
this year, I was told to do that, which is what I did. Also, Brad, but I don't know his last
name, did concur with me and only when I submitted the conditional use permit was it
flipped to this particular hearing that we're at now. That's my frustration. That's her
frustration. Thank you.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I had a question. You indicated you'd been led to believe that it was an
accessory use. Was that based on your interpretation of the city's ordinance and the
reading of what accessory use may be?
R. Chace: Yes, and concurring with Brad.
Rountree: Thank you.
Corrie: Any comments, council?
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Ok, well you have before you the appeal for the zoning permit requirement. So
either deny the appeal or approve the appeal. I will entertain a motion to (inaudible).
Rountree: Mr. Mayor I have a question for Shari.
Corrie: Ok.
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July 20, 1999
Page5
Rountree: Shari what process at a minimum would you advise going through to enable
you to issue a zoning compliance for a building permit for this particular activity?
Stiles: A modification of the conditional use permit, going through the original process.
Rountree: And is that a two hearing process or a one hearing process?
Stiles: It's actually in a CC zone so it could be done through planning and zoning and
then go directly to council.
Rountree: Ok.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Shari, I've got a question. If they were to add a walkway and make that as an
addition would they have to go through this?
Stiles: There's been confusion as far as what and accessory building is and there are
some criteria for an accessory building, however it's not the issue of whether it's an
accessory building or not, the issue is it's a pretty substantial change to their initial
conditional use permit.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor, another question for Shari.
Corrie: Ok, Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: If there were a common wall or simply a building modification is it still a
significant change? What I heard the applicant say is that is was more additional space
for the existing child care facility, not to increase the number of children they care for.
Stiles: I don't believe the original conditional use permit stated any minimum on the
number of children. Even though they represented that they just want additional space,
not additional children, there would be nothing to prevent them from adding as many
children as they could house within that new building. If they came in, when I initially
talked to them, it was January 15t", they looked in my records and phone log, it was just
discussed about an addition. I can't state over the phone what's going to be required. I
get those calls all of the time. It's getting to the point where I'm going to have
something in writing and respond in writing because of the misinterpretations. Had they
come in, say they wanted to enlarge a room by 100 square feet or something like that,
we'd probably not say they had to go through a conditional use permit. But I think when
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July 20, 1999
Page6
you're talking about 830 square feet, that's not a minor modification, plus an additional
building.
Rountree: Is the language in the ordinance specific about minor modifications?
Stiles: No, it's purely a judgement call.
Rountree: Is it specific about separate structures?
Stiles: Number of buildings on a lot. It talks about principle buildings. It says when
there's more than one principle building on a lot. Let's say they wanted to move out,
make an office building out of the one and do whatever with the rest of the existing
structure, we wouldn't have a whole lot to do with it. It would just be approved.
Rountree: Ok, thank you.
Corrie: Any further discussion? Hearing none, I'll entertain a motion.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we deny the appeal for the P & Z Administrators requirement for
CUP for this particular application for the day care.
Bentley: Second.
Corrie: Motion made and second to deny the appeal (inaudible) CUP as requested.
Any further discussion? All those in favor of the motion, say aye.
Anderson: Aye.
Bentley: Aye.
Rountree: Aye.
Corrie: Opposed, no.
Bird: No.
Corrie: Ok, 3-1 the appeal is denied.
THREE AYES, ONE NAY: MOTION CARRIED
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July 20, 1999
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ITEM #2 FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW: REQUEST FOR
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR AND OFFICE/RETAIL BUILDING BY BRIAN
CHAMPION -129 E. PINE STREET:
Corrie: Council do you have any questions of the staff on the findings of fact and
conclusions of law and the recommendations of that?
Rountree: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Could we have Shari give us a little run-down on this particular application?
Corrie: Sure. Shari, they'd like a little back ground on this just to get it on the record.
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and council I didn't bring my slides or my transparency for this project.
This is the project that's immediately east of the city's parking lot on Pine Street. If
you've driven past there he's done considerable amount of work. It really fits in with the
neighborhood now, he's paved his back parking lot. He had come to an agreement
with the ACHD that he would deposit the funds for paving of the alley immediately
adjacent to his property. He's replaced the sidewalk and the curb on Pine and it'll make
a nice little office project there.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I would move that we approve the findings of facts and conclusions of law
and approval of the conditional use permit for this application.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion made and second that we approve the findings of facts and conclusions
of law of the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission and approve the conditional
use permit as requested by the applicant. (Inaudible) further discussion.
ROLL CALL VOTE: ROUNTREE, YEA. ANDERSON, YEA. BENTLEY, YEA. BIRD,
YEA.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL YEAS.
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July 20, 1999
Page8
ITEM #3 FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW: REQUEST FOR
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A DRIVE-THRU FOR MOXIE JAVA BY AVII
L.L.C.---1800 N LOCUST GROVE RD.
Corrie: Before we get started on this council, I've been advised by legal that in a code
section 112418E, that might be a good idea since we could have a public hearing reset
to the city council on the original application. Because we got some information back
that was not in the public hearing and it needs to be under a public hearing. (Inaudible)
do that so that would be one of the suggestions that we could do to have a request for
that proposal again. It wasn't a public hearing the last time and I think some information
was given that the public had not been aware of. My recommendation is to reset this to
the city council for the original application again in a public hearing. Discussions?
Nobody's going to take my (inaudible)?
Bird: We're thinking.
Corrie: Oh, you're thinking.
Bird: It takes a long time.
Anderson: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Anderson.
Anderson: Explain to me then how the applicant would ever get to put their project
before us? Do they have to go back to P&Z?
Corrie: No.
Anderson: Or they come back and request a public hearing from us?
Corrie: That's correct. On the original application. Then you could do it. They wouldn't
have to go through planning and zoning. They could come directly to you for the
hearing and information to you. But that's about the only way you're going to be able to
take any information from them that they didn't have at that time and didn't give us
because they didn't have the opportunity to give it to you. Or you can just deny the
whole thing and just leave it as it is.
Anderson: Well, I would like to see them have the opportunity to present their
information to us. And if that requires a public hearing I would like to see it go in that
direction.
Bird: I agree with you Ron.
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July 20, 1999
Page9
Rountree: Is that a motion?
Anderson: Then I'll make that in the form of a motion.
Bird: And I'll second it.
Corrie: Ok, motion being is that is that on Tuesday, August 3rd they will have a public
hearing. Is that all right Mr. (inaudible)? Can you notify that next one? OK, that's right
so it would be the 17th. So you can notice it? The 17th? Ok. So the motion is to have
the public hearing reset for the 17th of August in a full city council meeting on the original
application. Motion made and second. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all of
those in favor of that motion, say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Corrie: So, City Clerk, if you will notify them on that we can hear that request.
ITEM #4 FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLSIONS OF LAW: REQUEST FOR
VARIANCE FOR REINSTATEMENT OF APPROVED PRELIMINARY PLAT FOR
OLSEN BUSH II BY R2 DEVELOPMENT, INC. ---WEST END OF LANARK STREET:
Corrie: Steve, did you find anything on the old findings of facts on this one.
Rutherford: Mayor and members of the city council, I did. I spoke with Will a little bit
and reviewed the file and spoke with my secretary. Bill wanted that old findings of fact
sheet and conclusions of law for the purposes of the development agreement that he
was in the process of looking into before the final plat of this deal comes about. So I
don't think you need to consider that tonight. I think you can go forward on your
decision on the variance.
Corrie: Ok, council you had the findings of fact and conclusions of law on the variance
request. Any discussions?
Rountree: I have none
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: I entertain a motion on the request on the findings of fact and conclusions of law
on the request.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor?
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July 20, 1999
Page10
Corrie: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we approve the findings of fact and conclusions of law. A
decision in order which grants the variance for reinstatement of the approved
preliminary plat for Olsen Bush II.
Bentley: Second.
Corrie: Motion then made my Mr. Rountree and second by Mr. Bentley to approve the
request for variance of the development inc. Any further discussion?
ROLL CALL VOTE: ANDERSON, YEA. BENTLEY, YEA. BIRD, YEA. ROUNTREE,
YEA.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL YEAS.
ITEM #5 FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW: REQUEST FOR
ANNEXATION AND ZONING OF 6.15 ACRES (FOR R-40 ZONING) FOR PROPOSED
COBBLESTONE VILLAGE BY IONIC ENTERPRISES, INC. ---SOUTHWEST CORNER
OF LOCUST GROVE AND FRANKLIN:
Rountree: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I have a question for Shari. What was the date on staff comments on this
particular project.
Stiles: April 9th, 1999.
Rountree: 9th, thank you. Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Well, I had a rather lengthy memo from legal counsel regarding this
particular finding. And I guess I would propose to move forward with the finding with
two amendments to the conditions of the finding. One that would include a requirement
of a development agreement and two, that would include the conditions of staff's April
9th 1999 recommendation.
Bird: Is that a motion?
Meridian City Council Meeting
July 20, 1999
Pagel1
Rountree: No, If you want to talk about that, that's great.
Bentley: Mr. Mayor, I concur.
Bird: I do too.
Corrie: Two concurrence.
Rountree: Maybe I ought to make a motion.
Bird: Did you make that a motion?
Rountree: Mr. Mayor, I move that we approve the findings of facts and conclusions of
law and the decision in order for the annexation and zoning of Cobblestone Village with
amending the findings of facts including a condition that would include staff comments
of April 9th, 1999 and include a requirement for development agreement for this subject.
y 001110-.• •.1
Corrie: Motion is made by Mr. Rountree, second by Mr. Bird to approve the findings of
facts and conclusions of law and order with the two amendments and the staff approval
of the April 9th, 1999 requirements and also the development agreements. Any further
discussion? Hearing none, roll call vote.
ROLL CALL VOTE: ANDERSON, NAY. BENTLEY, YEA. BIRD, YEA. ROUNTREE,
YEA.
MOTION CARRIED 3-1.
ITEM #6 CONTINUED PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR CONDITIONAL USE
PERMIT FOR A GROUP DAYCARE OF 6-12 CHILDREN BY VOANNA C. WARD
d/b/a/ VO'S DAYCARE ---924 E. 4T" STREET:
Corrie: This is a continued public hearing and I will open up the continued public
hearing. We will have comments from staff to kind of get us back up to where we are
here on this. Shari.
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and council, I believe that the main reason that this was continued
was so that the fire chief could look into the code requirements. They haven't had any
information from here one way or the other. I don't know if the applicant has any
information on that.
Corrie: Ok.
Meridian City Council Meeting
July 20, 1999
Page12
Ward: Voanna Ward, 924 E. 4t'. I talked to, I believe his name is Kenny, the Fire
Marshall, and he said there was a question of whether my doors need to swing out and
he said when if I was going to have 30-50 children then I would need to have the doors
swinging out. And there was a question about the fire wall and that fell under the
building and I could never get a hold of someone and talk to them about that. I was
trying to get a hold of Ken Thompson, he's the one who built the house, to see if he'd
built one in, but the thing is that we have hurricane strips on our roof, so he really really
really built that house so nothing could happen to it. Also I went through all the
inspections from Health and Welfare. They came out to my home and they looked at
everything and basically I have a license, but it won't be final until this hearing is over
and I have the Fire Marshall come out, if I was approved.
Corrie: Any questions from council?
Anderson: I have none.
Corrie: Ok. (Inaudible) public hearing. Kenny do you have any comment on the
request about the walls and fire doors?
Bowers: Mayor Corrie and council, I went by and looked at the house and I talked with
Daunt, the building inspector from the building department. The only wall that uniform
fire code recognizes is a four-hour fire wall so that's completely out of our hands at this
time on the fire wall. Now the exits that I had talked about last time, as councilman
Keith Bird had mentioned, the doors have to swing out. That's only when there's an
occupancy of 50 or more on that so we're ok there. And she doesn't have any exits out
toward the back part where there's only three foot so we wouldn't be exiting out that
way anyhow.
Bird: Ok. Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I've got a question for Kenny. Then you're telling me then that the only fire wall
that we recognize is a four-hour fire wall in the city of Meridian?
Bowers: In the uniform fire code.
Bird: How about the building code?
Bowers: Now the building code does recognize, I believe something. .
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July 20, 1999
Page13
Bird: And isn't there something that states that if you're within 5 foot of the property line
you have to be a fire (inaudible) where a fire can't jump and go out to the other place or
the other place can't come to you?
Bowers: I had talked to Daunt that day and he was going to go run by the house and
check it and see what he was going to recommend on this. The lady had called me and
I had asked her to call Daunt to get things squared around with Daunt and I'm not sure if
they got together or not on that, Keith.
Bird: Ok. I don't have any problem with it, I just want to make sure that we're not
breaking a code because once you start remodeling or bringing up then you have to
bring up the code and I know that is one of the uniform building codes.
Bowers: And the only thing you can make a four-hour fire wall out of, of course, is brick
or pumice.
Bird: And four hours is not in this area.
Bowers: Right.
Bird: Ok.
Corrie: Someone else from the public would like to issue testimony in this request for
conditional use permit? Ok. Any other questions from the council?
:3R0MII VVYTi O MW
Corrie: Ok, I'll entertain a motion to close the public hearing.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we close the public hearing for the Vo's day care center.
Bentley: Second.
Corrie: Motion made and second that we close the public hearing on the Vo day care
center. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
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July 20, 1999
Page14
Corrie: Ok, I'll entertain a motion to have the attorney drop the findings of fact and
conclusions of law in the proper order.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move that we have the attorney drop the findings of fact for conditional use
permit for the group day care center of 6-12 children, doing business as Vo's Daycare,
924 E. 4t" Street.
Bentley: Second.
Corrie: Ok, motion is made and seconded. We'll have the attorney drop the findings of
fact and conclusions of law in the proper order. Any further discussion? Hearing none,
all those in favor of the motion say aye.
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ITEM # 7 CONTINUED PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR PRELIMINARY PLAT
FOR DEE JAY SUBDIVISION (14 BUILDING LOTS ON 15.04 ACRES) BY J -U -B
ENGINEERS, INC. ---EAST OF STRATFORD DR & NORTH & SOUTH OF
WATERTOWER LN:
Corrie: So at this point I'll reopen the continued public hearing. Shari, we'll have you
first. Gary's down there waiting for us.
Bird: I'm glad you had to bring all that paper work instead of us.
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and council, this is for a property that was already annexed into the
city at a zone C -G. The state law enforcement facility is here. The Meridian Cemetery
owns property here. This is currently vacant land, designated as single-family
residential in the comprehensive plan, but they will undoubtedly come in for a change
on this 40 acres. Stratford runs down here to Franklin Road. We have the Medimont or
Stonebridge subdivision here. The full size blue line prints you may have in your
packet, show stub streets to the north and to the south. The showed that to meet our
ordinance requirements but they also asked for a variance on the block length. In
discussions with Mr. Burton Roberts of the cemetery board, they have no desire to have
any stub street going into the cemetery property there. There's a little triangle here, you
can't quite see it, but that's owned by Bill Hon. It's useless to him. I believe the
cemetery board is working with him so that they can acquire that so that they can have
a legal access to this portion back here. The cemetery board's main concerns were
some kind of buffering. It will be difficult to have much buffering because there is an
Meridian City Council Meeting
July 20, 1999
Page15
existing ditch that runs along here that will need to be piped and they won't be able to
plant anything within that easement over the ditch. But the applicant and his
representative are aware of the concerns of the cemetery board and will attempt to at
least have some conversations with them when they go to develop those partials. The
other stub that went to the south here, it's very unlikely that this will ever redevelop and
doubt that they wanted a public street access going into that facility. Staff recommends
approval of the project, provided that the access or the turnaround at the end here
meets the Fire Department requirements. Bruce Freckleton had the suggestion that as
this property is owned by the same person as this property that they could build that
temporary cul-de-sac on this other property until they're ready to develop that. They
also were trying to work out some kind of an agreement where they can loop the water
system back into the Medimont subdivision to create better flows and pressures in that
area. Have any questions?
Corrie: Council do you have any questions of Stiles?
Bird: I have none. Very good Shari.
Corrie: This is the public hearing developer, Mr. Lee.
Lee: My name is Gary Lee with J -U -B Engineers at 250 S. Beachwood in Boise. I'm
representing the applicant Kevin Howell Construction. I think Shari covered most of the
high points on the development. This particular project will be commercial in nature.
The lots will range anywhere from .8 of an acre to almost an acre in size. The overall
density then, is about .9 of a lot per acre. We did discuss some possible buffering
techniques with the cemetery board last week. We're kicking around some ideas of
planting some evergreens along that northern boundary to act as a sound barrier
between the businesses and the cemetery. I did speak with the developers in house
project manager, Tracy (inaudible) and she did concur that they would be willing to work
with the cemetery board and construction of the landscape buffer through there.
(Inaudible) in the plants or some sort of method, but they will work with them on that
particular situation. The stub streets, Shari did speak to, ACHD is in favor of not having
those stub streets as well because of the circulation in that area. Watertower lane will
eventually connect to Locust Grove Road, I'm sure through future developments. I
guess the variance application will be the next public hearing and we can speak to that
then, unless you want to go through that now. It basically is just a variance increase in
the 1000 foot block length in that area to about 1300 feet. There wouldn't be any need
for a cul-de-sac, necessarily, but there should be an approved emergency vehicle
turnaround at the end. Irrigation would we provided out of the hunter lateral. As you
can see in the vicinity map, the hunter just barely touches the corner of lot seven block
one. And we had requested a waver of the requirement to pipe that short stretch of
open ditch. It amounts to probably 10-20 feet in length. There will be some piping
installed along the east boundary conveying water down to the southerly property
owners and along the northerly boundary that will feed our future irrigation pump station.
Meridian City Council Meeting
July 20, 1999
Page16
And there will be pressurized irrigation supplied on all the lots. I don't believe I have
any further comments. If you have a questions, I'd be glad to answer those.
Anderson: You said there should be a turnaround at the end, are you going to build
that?
Lee: Yes.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Gary, you said that you had kicked around the idea of shrubbery or
something on that border or buffering. (Inaudible) non -committal, committal. Are you
going to work with the cemetery board to put some kind of reasonable aesthetic barrier
there? I don't think it really needs to be a sound barrier.
Lee: No. I guess the sound we're trying to guard against is the sound from commercial
operations during a ceremony at the cemetery. But, like I said, I did meet with the board
personally, although the developer who is spending the money wasn't there at the
meeting, I can't speak for him. I did speak to his representative today and they're willing
to participate in some sort of cost sharing in there.
Rountree: Thank You.
Corrie: Since you testified for the variance at this time Gary, your request for variance
didn't include not to tile that ditch. Is that a tilable ditch or not?
Bird: No.
Stiles: Mr. Mayor, we're not requiring that an actual variance be filled out for that since
the council can wave that if they determine it's in the city's best interest to leave it open.
Corrie: Ok, but they would have to do that in the motion, is that correct? Or can we do
it later?
Stiles: I think you can include it as part of your approval of the plat.
Corrie: All right. Anything else? Thank you. Is there anyone else from the public who
would like to issue testimony in the request for preliminary plat? Ok, hearing none,
council any questions for the staff? I entertain a motion to close the public hearing.
Bentley: Mr. Mayor?
Meridian City Council Meeting
July 20, 1999
Page17
Corrie: Mr. Bentley.
Bentley: I move to close the public hearing for Dee Jay Subdivision.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion made and seconded to close the public hearing on item #7 for the
discussion. Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Corrie: Any further discussion?
Bentley: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bentley.
Bentley: The only discussion I'd have is on the ditch. I would prefer not to tile that
ditch.
Bird: I concur with that.
Corrie: Ok. Any further discussion.
I'll entertain a motion for the order and mayor to sign.
Bentley: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bentley.
Bentley: I move we approve the preliminary plat for Dee Jay Subdivision subject to staff
conditions, the non -tiling of the ditch, and that the developer work out a buffering with
the cemetery.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion made my Mr. Bentley, seconded by Mr. Bird to approve the requested
preliminary plat with the variance on not to tile the ditch and incorporate staff reports,
and for the attorney to draw up the needed order and for the signature of the mayor.
Any further discussion? Mr. Rountree.
Meridian City Council Meeting
July 20, 1999
Page18
Rountree: Does that motion include the inclusion of recommendations from planning
and zoning?
Bentley: Yes.
Corrie: Any further discussion?
Anderson: Mr. Mayor?
: TOTS1 OTA WTITIreM9- l
Anderson: I guess I'd just like to be on record that I don't have any particular problems
with this project, but as we've discussed in the past, this whole area around the central
valley and the area that's coming out onto Stratford and that's going to eventually be
dumping onto Locust Grove, that everyone of these projects that we approve in this
area is compounding the problem. I don't think the roads were put in wide enough to
begin with and we're inching ever closer to Locust Grove where we're going to be
dumping traffic onto that road; a road that has not been scheduled for any
improvements yet. So, I just want to be on record as throwing out kind of a
precautionary statement that I think we're asking for trouble in this area by getting too
dense.
Corrie: Who are you calling dense?
Bentley: Just pick one of us.
Corrie: Any further comments? Hearing none, all in favor of the motion, say aye.
Opposed, no.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
ITEM #8 CONTINUED PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR VARIANCE FROM 1000
FOOT MAXIMUM BLOCK LENGTH FOR DEE JAY SUBDIVISION BY J -U -B
ENGINEERS, INC. ---EAST OF STRATFORD DR & NORTH & SOUTH OF
WATERTOWER LN:
Corrie: At this time I'll open the continued public hearing and invite staff comments first.
END OF SIDE 1
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and council, as I mentioned previously, the request was to exceed the
1000 foot block length requirement and staff recommends the approval of that variance,
as the access is not needed to either of the adjacent properties. As the plat is already
Meridian City Council Meeting
July 20, 1999
Page19
now approved, it's kind of a mood point but I believe the findings would need to be
prepared for the variance. They didn't indicate the cul-de-sac length. I guess Gary and
I have a little difference of opinion. I still consider this as going to be a cul-de-sac until
such time as it is connected, but it will exceed our cul-de-sac length by 450 feet. But
that's primarily a fire department requirement due to the spacing of the hydrants. If they
had no objections, staff would have no objections to that either.
Corrie: Ok, is there anyone else from the public who would like to issue testimony in
this variance request.
Lee: Yes, my name is Gary Lee with J -U -B Engineers 250 S. Beachwood in Boise.
just wanted to reaffirm my statements I made during the previous public hearing of the
preliminary plat. Again, I'd like to answer any questions that you may have about the
block length and/or the requirement for the variance on that cul-de-sac length. I
mentioned in my letter to staff in response to that, it was our view that it was a stub
street with the intent of continuation in the future, but we will provide a temporary
turnaround for emergency vehicles.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: On the last deal he agreed to all the comments and 1.21 states that they will pave
a temporary turnaround at the east end of the stub with a temporary easement provided
to the district designed that the turnaround should be coordinated with the district staff.
So, that's all covered.
Corrie: Any further comments?
Bird: I have none.
Bentley: Thank you.
Corrie: Thank you. Anyone else from the public would like to issue testimony. Council
do you have any questions for the staff or further questions on the public hearing?
Bentley: I have none.
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: I entertain a motion to close the public hearing.
Bentley: So moved.
Meridian City Council Meeting
July 20, 1999
Page20
Rountree: Second.
Corrie: Motion made and seconded to close the public hearing on item #8. Further
discussion? Hearing none, all in favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we have the city attorney prepare findings of fact and
conclusions of law to reflect favorably on the request for variance for this application.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Ok, motion made and seconded to have the attorney draw up the findings of
fact and conclusions of law in favor of the variance and (inaudible) proper order. Any
further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
ITEM #9 CONTINUED PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR REZONE OF .967
ACRES (FROM R-4 TO R-8 WITH CONDITIONS FOR SINGLE FAMILY
RESIDENTIAL) FOR TREMONT PLACE SUBDIVISION NO 2. BY LARRY & KAY
HANSEN --- BROADWAY & 8T" STREET (951 W. PINE STREET):
Corrie: At this time we'll open the public hearing and we'll have the staff comments first,
Shari.
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and council, this rezone application was submitted due to the fact that
there was an error on the original ordinance as far as rezoning it to a R-4. But the R-4
also placed conditions on it that it was required to be developed as a planned
development and that town house units be proposed. They now want to develop in
conjunction with Tremont Place Subdivision No. 1, and would like to continue the single
-family residential development that they have with Tremont Place Subdivision No. 1. 1
guess I'll just address just that rezoning right now. We have the plat right after this so if
you have any questions.
Corrie: Any questions for the staff?
Bird: I have none.
Meridian City Council Meeting
July 20, 1999
Page21
Rountree: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Just to refresh my memory Shari, didn't we discuss this and look at this
possibility when Tremont Place was here for approval and annexation?
Stiles: Yes, we did.
Rountree: And the applicants testified that they thought they might be doing this in the
future.
Corrie: Public hearing, is the applicant for the request for rezone here (inaudible)?
Unger: Mr. Mayor and council members, my name is Bob Unger and I'm with Pinnacle
Engineers. Our address is 870 N. Linder Suite B, Meridian, Idaho and we represent the
Hansens on this project. We're requesting the rezone on the property. These are the
lots that we're looking at right here to develop. We're requesting the rezone to make it
more compatible with the previously approved Tremont Place No. 1, which was
approved by this council approximately six weeks ago. We have four new building lots,
which are right here, and we have the fifth lot which is their existing residence which
already has sewer and water off Pine. We would continue the sewer and water from
Tremont No. 1 into the four lots. We're providing a temporary turnaround and as in No.
1 we'll be providing pressurized irrigation for the additional lots. The lots are 6500
square feet which does comply with the city code. Of course this is their existing
residence and I think they're going to retain approximately 14,000 square feet, a little
over 14,000 square feet, for the existing home. The project is in compliance with the
city comprehensive plan and the city code and it will be an addition, like we said, to
Tremont No. 1. Both projects are compatible with the surrounding areas and uses. I
think that's a pretty good summary of it and we'll stand for any questions you might
have.
Corrie: Questions, council?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: I have none.
Corrie: Ok.
Unger: Thank you.
Meridian City Council Meeting
July 20, 1999
Page22
Corrie: (Inaudible) like to issue testimony in item #9? Hearing none. Council,
questions, testimonial?
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Ok, I entertain a motion to close the public hearing.
Bentley: So moved.
Anderson: Second.
Corrie: Motion made and second to close the public hearing on item # 9. Further
discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Corrie: Any discussion of council.
All: I have none.
Corrie: Hearing none I'll entertain a motion then on the request for rezone.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we have the city attorney prepare findings of facts, decision in
order and in annexation, no we don't need annexation, excuse me rezone ordinance for
rezone of Tremont Place No. 2.
Bentley: Second.
Corrie: Motion is made and seconded to approve the rezone and have the attorney
draw up the findings of fact and conclusions of law in the proper order. Any further
discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
ITEM #10 CONTINUED PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR PRELIMINARY PLAT
FOR TREMONT PLACE SUBDIVISION NO. 2 (ONE EXISTING, FOUR NEW
BUILDING LOTS) BY LARRY AND KAY HANSEN --- BROADWAY & 8T" STREET
(951 W. PINE STREET):
Meridian City Council Meeting
July 20, 1999
Page23
Corrie: At this time I'll open the public hearing. First will be the staff.
Stiles: I had one question to ask of the applicant on the rezone. Did that include this
little strip here? And we did request a revised legal description. We want to make sure
we get that so that they can prepare the ordinance.
Corrie: Let it be known that Mr. Unger is shaking his head yes.
Stiles: This plat would include these four lots plus this existing lot where the house is
now. They will meet setback requirements. The approved preliminary plat for Tremont
Subdivision No. 1 did include a little portion of some of these lots so that they have used
some of Tremont Place Subdivision No.1 to make these meet the minimum 6500
square feet. They will provide the turnarounds as requested. They had asked for a
reduction in the minimum house size, but staff did not feel that was necessary given that
the configuration of the lots and the size they have plenty of room to have the 1301
minimum house size requirement. I believe they've concurred with that now. We had
initially made a request that this house be hooked up to sewer and water, but I think
they've confirmed that is already is hooked up to sewer and water. They do have an
access out to Pine for the existing home and then the other homes will front on the new
roadway. So staff recommends approval with compliance with our comments.
Corrie: Thank you Shari. Any questions of Shari?
Rountree: None.
Corrie: Since this is a public hearing, Mr. Unger.
Unger: Mr. Mayor and council members, I'm Bob Unger of Pinnacle Engineers. We
represent the applicant again. We have reviewed all of the conditions of approval as
presented to us by the staff. We have no problems with the conditions and we already
have provided the revised legal description for the rezone itself. And as Shari said, the
existing residence already has access and sewer and water from Pine. As far as the
rest of my testimony, it would be the same as I gave you earlier.
Corrie: Any questions of Mr. Unger?
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Thank you.
Unger: Thank you.
Meridian City Council Meeting
July 20, 1999
Page24
Corrie: Anyone else in the public like to issue testimony for this request? Hearing
none, the council and the questions of staff or what else?
Rountree: I have none.
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: I'll entertain a motion to close the public hearing.
1-10111111111110 03 0=0 @1
Corrie: Motion made and seconded to close the public hearing on Item #10. Any
further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Corrie: Any further discussion of the council?
Rountree: I have none.
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Ok, I entertain a motion on the request for preliminary plat for Tremont Place
Subdivision #2.
Bentley: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bentley.
Bentley: I move we approve the preliminary plat for Tremont Place #2 subject to staff
and P& Z comments.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion is made and seconded to approve the preliminary plat subject to staff
comments and for the attorney to draw up the needed order. Further comments?
Hearing none, all in favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
ITEM #11 CONTINUED PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR ANNEXATION AND
ZONING OF 27.86 ACRES (FROM RT & R-4 TO R-8) FOR PROPOSED WILKINS
Meridian City Council Meeting
July 20, 1999
Page25
RANCH SUBDIVISION BY STEINER DEVELOPMENT LLC ---SOUTH OF USTICK &
WEST OF TEN MILE:
Corrie: So, I'll open the public hearing at this time and (inaudible) staff comments first.
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and council, I thought I had a better vicinity map. If you can see that
it is just west of the Dakota Ridge Subdivision, this would be the elementary school site
on the Ashenbrenner property. This we've seen before, hated it. Now Becky's come
back with a new plan. They're requesting an R-8 even though the majority of these lots
meet an R-4 requirement. So, we were a little concerned about the request for an R-8.
We've always thought that as we went out further, it would go to less density, not more.
We have the proposed Lakes at Cherry Lane #9 Subdivision here that's been approved
with some very large lots in comparison to some of the R-8 lots. We have requested
that they have some kind of a pathway along the eight mile and try to work that out with
Nampa Meridian Irrigation District. This property is still in the county. The
waste/water/treatment plant is just north and we would like to make sure that they have
the right to farm note put on the plans and the plat. Another concern we had was that
this portion of the property was not being requested for annexation at this time. There
had been no plans submitted. It would be our preference that we saw the whole picture
instead of just a piece of it. It's a great improvement over the last submittal. I think
there's still some areas that need to be worked on. Maybe Becky can offer why the
request for the R-8. If the R-8 were approved staff would recommend that there be put
a definite limit on the number of houses, the units that would be allowed within that
area. So, if it's turned over once again to a new developer they don't come back in and
do a straight R-8 development. Do you have any questions?
Bentley: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bentley.
Bentley: What limit would you recommend?
Stiles: Four per acre. I think we put a number on it and it was just based on what they
proposed here. It's not a particularly bad plan. There's a little variety in the frontages
and there are some larger lots and some smaller lots. I know one of the planning and
zoning commissioners wish that we had something in our ordinance that would allow for
a little more variety on the frontages so we don't end up with a cookie cutter 80.00 x
100.00 lots. And I think they kind of provided that here, but again they're just a little
concerned with the R-8 zoning without some restrictions through a development
agreement.
Bentley: Thank you.
Meridian City Council Meeting
July 20, 1999
Page26
Corrie: Have any questions.
Corrie: Thank you Shari. Public hearing, Becky.
Bowcutt: I got too much stuff. I need an assistant to help me get up here.
Corrie: He's sitting back there.
Bowcutt: No, I told him he can't talk.
Corrie: (Inaudible)
Bowcutt: Ok, let me just get situated here, my file's too thick.
Corrie: Looks like we may need to get a bigger podium.
Bowcutt: Well, the wood here's not think enough to set your file on and then stuff slides
out.
Corrie: See if (inaudible).
Bowcutt: City clerk comment.
Bird: You shouldn't have so much stuff.
Bowcutt: Becky Bowcutt, Briggs Engineering 1800 W. Overland, Boise. As Shari
indicated, this is a redesign of another project that came before you. Just to quickly
refresh your memory, this came to you as Wilkins Ranch a while back. The council at
that time did not like the site plan. The council I believe denied the preliminary plat, I
believe was going to approve the annexation to an R-4 designation. I sent a letter in
asking that the application be remanded back to the planning and zoning commission
and that was eventually what this body did. We went ahead and submitted a new
application so we did not take advantage of being remanded back so we paid the fees
all over again and came back through the process. Staff said that would be cleaner and
we agreed. This is what came before you, if you recall.
We remember.
Bowcutt: You remember, good. This is what we brought before you just a couple of
months ago, or a month ago I guess it was, called the Lakes at Cherry Lane No.9. They
had a lot of townhouses in here, townhouses in this pocket here. They had private
roads which the council and staff were very concerned about. They did not have
adequate buffering, the 20 foot required along the collector. They were asking for
Meridian City Council Meeting
July 20, 1999
Page27
reduction of setbacks, reduction of lot sizes. They utilized calculations on perimeter
landscaping to meet their 10% on the PUD. Staff thought that because that was
mandatory that should not be included. There was no stub street connection out to
Dakota Ridge and the elementary. The site plan just had a lot of problems, design
problems where radius's do not meet current standards for fire access or ACHD
standards. So, we basically scrapped this plan. Let me mention that this had 260
dwelling units in it. We scrapped that plan and decided that the best way to deal with
this project was in a three stage process. The Lake at Cherry Lane No. 9 there that we
brought before you, like I said a month ago, was already in the city, already zoned R-4.
Based on the staff comments, your comments, and the Ashford Greens comments, we
came in with very large lots, a density of 2.98. 1 believe there are a couple lots that are
almost a half -acre at 22,500 square feet. We came up in here, these lots got a little bit
smaller as they adjoin Wilkins Ranch and then we made these connections. Just for the
record we had the issue of the fifty feet, gapped between the right away in this. We
have met with Brighton and for $17,000 we got 50 feet. It is included in our final plat so
that has been resolved because that was an issue that was of concern to the council.
So that was our stage one. Stage two is what you see before you now. This is Wilkins
Ranch. We're proposing all single family dwellings, no duplexes. We do not want to
have the different percentages in the square footage of the homes. We want to go in at
that 1301. Our smallest lot in here is 7600 square feet and they range, I think my
largest lot is 14,931. So they range from 7600 to 14,931. What we're trying to do is
provide a little bit of variety. I know council has an aversion to the R-8. I was around as
everybody did R-8 and then the R-4 came about. Council Morrow made statement that
we have enough entry level housing, we need bigger lots, we need bigger homes. So
we've been doing R-4 for years now and we haven't done any R-8 for I think at least 4
years in the city of Meridian. The problem we're seeing now is on the 8,000-9,000
square foot lots. The homes aren't $125,000-135,000 anymore. They're $175,000,
165,000, 155,000. So, our concern is we're not getting the right mix of homes. Your
comprehensive plan states that you try to provide housing for all different economic
levels. As the price of these lots escalates, lots that were 22,000-24,000 just a couple
of years ago, the developers are now selling in the 30's and some are even up in the
40's if they have a view. So we're seeing the balance, where the R-4 was supposed to
bring us back into a balance, now we're going the other way. This particular area, there
is some R-8 down in the Lake at Cherry Lane. It is predominantly R-4, but under your
comprehensive plan it designates this area as single family residential. When you look
at the purpose statement in your ordinance, and I know it is out of date, it just states in
here the district, under R-8 meeting and density development, the district delineates
those areas where such development has or is likely to occur in accord with the
comprehensive plan with the city and is also designed to permit the conversion of large
homes into two family dwellings. The comp plan doesn't give us any guidance. When
you look at this map is just says single family residential. You see it all in the pale, kind
of beige color. If R-8 is not appropriate in those areas, then where is it appropriate? In
mixed residential? Well, we've only got three little areas, those are what you see in
Meridian City Council Meeting
July 20, 1999
Page28
yellow, that are designated mixed residential. Those are along railroads where typically
high density development takes place, not something like single family development.
Our density in here is 3.28 so we are within the R-4 density. We feel we have a good
project. This is a collector street, no front on housing. We've got landscaping, 20 foot
minimum all along. We open up in different areas. We have ped paths that make
connections up here in the north, along here and here. We have connection here to the
school between the block and then we've got a micro connection here. Let me get to
this. The reason we have not brought this is is I think we're on our fifth site plan now
and we're working towards something that I feel the council could support. We have the
intention of submitting it. We had hoped to submit it July 1. In my comments to staff
that's what I put. We're trying to hit the August 1 now. To give you the full picture this is
kind of what we're looking at. We've played with townhouse in this little corner. It's up
against Ustick, which is a major arterial. It backs up against a collector street and the
elementary school site. So we thought, let's create a pocket. We're trying to create a
community here. We've got a nice neighborhood here with a loop, a nice cul-de-sac, a
nice little loop here, no intrusive traffic with our collector going through the midsection.
We come over here next to Ustick and our lots get a little bit smaller. This corner is what
we'll bring in, but as you can see this green here, shows you what it would visually look
like when it's developed. We've bounced back and forth between patio homes,
townhouses and so forth and that's why we're doing this in a three stage process. I'm
not trying to circumvent the rules or pull anything. It's be coming in. We've done this
before at other jurisdictions where just a portion of a large parcel is annexed and then
we bring in the next portion. Our overall density, when I calculate all of this plus the
Lake at Cherry Lane No. 9, will be 3.58. So, we'd be under that R-4 density. When you
calculate the old plan, which had 260 lots, their density was above 5, 1 think 5,25 or
something like that, close to six, something like that, in that 5-6 range. So, really what
calculate is that we've got about a 28% decrease in density. And we feel that we've got
a pretty good project. All public streets, not asking for any deviations and setbacks and
so forth. Let me get to staffs comments. I believe that we agreed with staff, I gave
Shari some of her questions were or some of her comments were in a question type
format asking for further explanation. I've covered some of those why we brought in just
this portion of the project or the property. Her question on the R-8 lot, since we were so
close at 7600 why did we opt for the R-8 designation. We've got one culcesac that
does exceed 450 feet, it's 480. Shari asked that we give another pedestrian outlet
pathway out of that, which we did right here. I had this one and we did that one. So, if
the fire department wants a 20 foot emergency access into the cul-de-sac we can outlet
it at either one of those points and it could also be used for ped path. We have some
lots that are split. Part of these are in the city. The city limit runs right across the middle
of these lots. Shari brought to my attention, it was something that I did overlook. These
all meet the R-4 standard. Shari said if we zone those R-8, we're going to have half of
them R-4 and the other half of the lots R-8. I sent a legal description to Will stating that
this would all be R-4, whatever is not in the city already that includes these lots. It's just
the north portion, the city limits run here, so it's just this area right there. So, these lots
Meridian City Council Meeting
July 20, 1999
Page29
would all be R-4 and they meet the R-4 standards. We have the eight -mile lateral that
traverses us along our western boundary. It's too large to pipe. There is a ditch access
road, it runs on the south side. Staff has asked us to get with Nampa/Meridian to see if
we can get them to agree to a pathway. I told the staff that I would get with them and
see what can be done, but please don't make it a condition of approval that it's
mandatory I put that path in in their easement, because I'll have problems with that.
Staff asked the question if these lots would be subject to the golf course fees. I stated
that I'd answer that in the hearing because I didn't know the answer. My understanding
is the Fuller and the Barney property were the two properties where the golf courses
originated so those parcels as developed were subject to the golf course fees. This
parcel was not related so therefore it is not. Other that that, I believe we agreed with
Shari's comments. The right to farm act, we'll put that on the plat. The right to fume
act, we put that on the plat because the sewer treatment plan is a hop and a skip from
us. Do you have any questions?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Becky, how many lots in that proposed subdivision are less than 8000
square feet?
Bowcutt: If I had to guess?
Corrie: You know exactly.
Bowcutt: Exactly.
Bird: No, you know exactly.
Bowcutt: Can I have a second.
Stiles: 17.
Bowcutt: What do you count Shari?
Stiles: There were 17.
Bowcutt: You counted them already? God, you're fast.
Rountree: How many again?
Meridian City Council Meeting
July 20, 1999
Page30
Bird: 17 out of 88.
Stiles: 18 lots.
Bird: 18?
Bowcutt: 18 lots drop below 8000 square feet? And I've got a total of 88 buildable lots,
15 common lots, and 2.76 acres of common area.
Corrie: Have you got any idea what sized homes are going to be out there? From what
to what.
Bowcutt: That would probably be a question for Doug. We're agreeing to the 1301. We
don't want the percentages or drop below that. What I've been seeing lately is the
homes are bigger than your minimum standards. In the R-4 zone what, we've got the
1400. All the subs I've got, I don't think any of them are building 1400 square foot
houses. They're 17-1800. In fact they're complaining that they can barely fit the homes
on the lots and meet the setbacks. So, now we're kind of moving to get them bigger for
that market.
Corrie: Shari, could that be a development agreement, about the size of the homes?
Not all of them 1301?
Stiles: The council could dictate any size of home if you're going to approve the R-8.
Corrie: Ok, just for my own clarification. Any questions from council
Bowcuttt: Thank you.
Corrie: Is there anyone else in the audience who would like to put testimony in this
request for annexation and zoning? Ok, any other questions for staff or public.
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: I'll entertain a motion to close the public hearing.
Bird: So moved.
Bentley: Second.
Meridian City Council Meeting
July 20, 1999
Page31
Corrie: Motion made and seconded to close the public hearing on item #11, annexation
and zoning of Wilkins Ranch Subdivision. All those in favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Corrie: Comments, discussion?
Rountree: Are you going to ask that question?
Corrie: Mr. Rountree?
Rountree: Mr. Mayor. Shari of legal council, either one, can the specifications on an
R-4 zoning be varied to allow lesser? Like in this case, an R-4 with a variance to allow
18 lots with lesser square feet.
Stiles: It would kind of be a strange thing to do.
Rountree: I didn't ask if it was strange about, I asked if it was doable.
Stiles: I guess it would be doable, it would more likely be done under a plan
development scenario with an R-4 zone that could permit this. But then they would be
required to have the 10% open space. I'm not saying it couldn't be done, but it wouldn't
be the preferred way to go.
Corrie: Does that answer your question?
Stiles: (Inaudible).
Corrie: (Inaudible). Any other questions?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: I have none.
Corrie: Ok. I'll entertain a motion in the request for annexation and zoning.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: For discussion, I guess, prior to the motion I get the sense that nobody's
really red hot about an R-8, but that's not unusual given the history. I agree with what
Shari stated that this is a considerable improvement as to what we've seen prior.
Meridian City Council Meeting
July 20, 1999
Page32
Conceptually I don't have a real problem with it on it's face, but the problem we've seen
with these kinds of things in the past is they go from this to a resale to a new developer
and then the promises and good will that we see when we're asked for these approvals
tend to create ill will amongst the city and the new owners. Having said that, I with a fair
amount of reservation, probably could not support the R-8 in that particular area, given
the nature of the housing that's in and around. I guess whether you want to call it a
gem or not, one of the assets that makes Meridian a city and that's our golf course.
Anderson: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Anderson.
Anderson: Just along those same lines, I tend to agree with Councilman Rountree's
comments. I like the concept of the project and I like the way you're kind of phasing it
away from the golf course and the lots are getting smaller, but I do have a difficult time
and struggling with the R-8 rezone and I guess I would tend not to support the project if
it's a request for R-8 versus and R-4.
Corrie: Any other comments. (Inaudible).
Bentley: Mr. Mayor I'll make it so you don't have to vote tonight on this one. I too really
have a problem with leaving ourselves wide open with an R-8. They have done a great
deal of improvement on what they're proposing over the last time, but I do to have the
problem with the R-8.
Corrie: Mr. Bird, do you have any comments?
Bird: I guess I'll be the one that's different. I'd like to see it stay R-4, but I also
understand that every development can't be an R-4. We have swung back to the R -4's
and I think we don't have the level of building that we need to be a community. I think
it's a very well planned out development. I'm like Charlie, it scares me because I don't
have any time (inaudible) lands change property or change hands out around there and
every time they come in we have some confusion on what went down. So, I don't see
any problem with the R-8 at this point, myself.
Corrie: All right, hearing that, I'll entertain a motion to whatever you'd like.
Bird: I'll make the motion, but it's just going to die of a second.
Rountree: Go ahead, it's your turn.
Bird: It'll just die of a second.
Meridian City Council Meeting
July 20, 1999
Page33
Rountree: Oh, I might second it.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move that we have the legal draw facts of findings and conclusion of law for the
annexation and zoning of 27.86 acres from R -T and R-4 to R-8 for proposed Wilkins
Ranch Development by Steiner Development, LLC.
Corrie: Ok, motion been made.
Bentley: Did you want some staff comments?
Bird: Oh, and to go along with the staff comments.
Corrie: Do I hear a second?
Rountree: I'll second that.
Corrie: Mr. Rountree second the motion to approve the annexation of 27.86 acres from
R -T and R-4 to an R-8 in the Wilkins Ranch Subdivision. Any further comments? All
those in favor of the motion say aye. Opposed, no.
MOTION DEFEATED: THREE NO'S, ONE AYE.
Corrie: I'll entertain a motion for an amendment motion.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor I move that we have findings of fact and conclusions of law
prepared by the city council that reflect staff comments, planning and zoning comments
and that the desire that this particular parcel be annexed as an R-4. Findings and facts
and decision in order.
Anderson: Second it.
Corrie: Ok, motion made by Mr. Rountree and seconded by Mr. Anderson to approve
the request for annexation and zoning of the 27.86 acres to a R-4 rating with a
conclusion of staff comments and have the attorney draw up the findings of facts and
conclusions of law in the proper order. Staff comments, (inaudible).
Rountree: Mr. Mayor, that may not be the proper motion.
Meridian City Council Meeting
July 20, 1999
Page34
Bird: I was going to say, we'd deny that.
Corrie: I think you're probably right, they've got to request it (inaudible) for the
annexation and zoning from an R -t and an R-4 so the motion needs to be to deny the
request.
Bird: Denied (inaudible).
Rountree: Mr. Mayor, I withdraw my motion.
Anderson: Withdraw my second.
Corrie: Motion withdrawn, second withdrawn.
Bird: Move on to the next item I guess.
Corrie: Go to the next one. We're going to leave them with then indication that they
need an R-4 then to bring back.
Bird: That's up to them.
Corrie: You can make a motion to. .
Rountree: This is a public hearing, correct?
Corrie: Yes.
Bentley: It was, it's closed.
Corrie: It's closed, but it was. But you have denied the request for annexation and
zoning and the order that it was asked for.
Rountree: We haven't denied it. We haven't a motion on it.
Corrie: You had a motion to deny his motion. Now you've still to have a motion either
to deny it or you can change that motion to do what you ask for.
Bird: Mr. Mayor, it's already been denied.
Corrie: No, yours was denied.
Bird: That's right. What is on the agenda has been denied.
Meridian City Council Meeting
July 20, 1999
Page35
Corrie: No, no, your motion was denied.
Bird: Request for annexation?
Corrie: Right.
Bird: From R-4 to R-8.
Corrie: That was your . .
Rountree: That's been denied.
Bird: That's been denied. Ok, now what do we got to do?
Corrie: Punt.
Bird: Punt, yeah. Well, we can't tell them they have to come in as an R-4. That's up to
them to come through isn't it?
Corrie: Actually, your motion (inaudible) to prepare findings to indicate approval has
been denied not their. .
Bird: So, now we have to have a motion to deny it. Find findings of fact and
conclusions of law and deny it, ok. Let's do her.
Rountree: I think there's another option for the applicant to leave it open for them to
submit additional information.
Bird: Not public.
Corrie: Ok.
Rountree: And reopen the public hearing to do that.
Corrie: I have to reopen the public hearing. I motion to reopen the public hearing.
Bird: So moved.
Bentley: Second.
Corrie: Ok, motion made to reopen the public hearing. All those in favor say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Meridian City Council Meeting
July 20, 1999
Page36
Bowcuttt: Becky Bowcuttt, Briggs Engineering. Just want to make a quick comment.
It's within your per view to specify whatever zoning designation you feel is appropriate.
So, if the zoning designation is already unacceptable to the council, then you may make
a motion to approve it and annex the property as R-4.
Bird: Ok, that's right.
Bowcuttt: It's done many many times. I've done it at Boise. They feel that they don't
want that kind of density, they want it less. So, boom they make the motion.
Bird: And that is what Charlie's motion was.
Rountree: I just wanted to add one caveat to it.
Bentley: I thought you didn't like caviar.
Rountree: Caviar.
Corrie: Thank you Becky. Anyone else from the public that would like to issue
testimony here? Ok, you have any questions of anyone who has testified here in this
one?
Rountree: No.
Corrie: Ok, I entertain a motion to close the public hearing then.
Rountree: So moved.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion made and seconded to close the public hearing on item #11. All in favor
say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Corrie: Ok, Charlie now you can
Rountree: Mr. Mayor I move that we deny the request of annexation, excuse me,
move that we approve the request of annexation and deny the rezone to R-8 and
maintain the zone at R-4, have the city attorney prepare findings of fact and conclusions
of law, decision in order and annexation ordinance that reflects that upon being notified
of the developer and owner that that is consistent with their desires. If it's not consistent
Meridian City Council Meeting
July 20, 1999
Page37
with the desires of the developer, I would add to the motion that we not annex and
rezone at this time.
Bentley: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Rountree and seconded by Mr. Bentley. It's on record
(inaudible). Mr. Bentley. Any further discussion? Mr. Bentley.
Bentley: Yes, in your motion you said to let it remain as R-4, isn't part of it R -T?
Rountree: Well, there's a portion that's R-4, I don't know.
Bentley: Yes, there is a portion that's R-4, but isn't some of it R -T?
Bird: Yes, R -T.
Bentley: So I think your wording is going to have to. .
Bird: Have to reflect that.
Corrie: That it all be R-4.
Bentley: And second, I have another question on the recommendation from P&Z 1.22
provision A. And that's for them to have a provision of a pathway along eight -mile. We
all know how difficult that is to forcibly require. Are we addressing her wishes that it be
left semi -open to see if we can get this accomplished?
Rountree: I did not intend to include the planning and zoning comments in my motion.
Corrie: Any further discussion. Hearing none, all those in favor of the original motion by
Mr. Rountree and second by Mr. Bentley signify by saying...
END OF SIDE TWO
MOTION CARRIED: 3 AYES, 1 NAY.
12. CONTINUED PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR PRELIMINARY PLAT FOR
WILKINS RANCH SUBDIVISION (89 BUILDING LOTS ON 27.86 ACRES) BY
STEINER DEVELOPMENT LLC — SOUTH OF USTICK & WEST OF TEN MILE:
Corrie: I will open the public hearing at this time. Staff comments?
Meridian City Council Meeting
July 20, 1999
Page38
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, you have our comments dated June 4t", 1999. This plat
could be revised to comply with the r-4 requirements fairly easily. But they would need
to come back with a revised plat in order to meet the R-4 requirements. I don't know if it
can be —just have it continued public hearing to enable them to come back or if that's
something you want sent back to P & Z. The Planning and Zoning Commission didn't
have any problems with it to begin with as it was, so I don't know what purpose that
would serve. I don't know if the applicant is willing to make those changes and come,
but the rest of our comments would not change unless they significantly change the
layout of the subdivision.
Bentley: I don't have a comment for Shari, but I do have a comment on procedure. If
we change the zoning, I think we more or less probably continue this until we can see
what the applicant's feelings are. This plat is going to change now. So if we continue
this hearing -- we go on with this hearing tonight, it's going to serve no purpose.
Corrie: All right we can continue it if you like. Since this is a public hearing, Becky
comments.
Bowcutt: I guess we have two choices here. The R-8 is not acceptable. You have
concerns about that leaving the door open. I feel that the issues that the Council has
had in the past can be dealt with in the development agreements. Those are binding
recorded documents, so any fears about increased density or conversion to duplex lots
or all those items can be addressed in the development agreement. However the R-4,
we'll have to live with that. I guess my question is does the Council have a problem with
the lot sizes as proposed? I heard a comment that they felt that this particular area with
the golf course should have larger lots. We have larger lots down by the golf course.
We have transitioned the smaller lots as we go north up to the arterial. So I'm not sure.
I'm getting mixed feelings here. I guess we have two choices. If we turn this into an R-
4 subdivision, the streets are not going to move. We're just going to reduce lots and
widen these lots out. Their depths are acceptable. It's the widths that have the problem
as far as the R-4 standard. Our widths are 75, 76, 79 and we have to have 80 foot
minimum frontage. So as far as the streets moving would not. The lots would just be
reduced. The other choice we have is to come in with a PUD. Defer the preliminary
plat, obviously the preliminary plat cannot be approved as is with the R-4 standards so
we have to either one defer it for redesign to bring it to R-4 standards, or two, to defer it,
remand it back to the Planning and Zoning Commission and have us bring a PUD in
that accompanies it and I have done that before. I had a project on the west side of
Eagle Road and I asked for R-1 C. The City of Boise gave me R-1 B and I had a plat not
in compliance. That's what they did to me, remanded me back and said submit a PUD,
demonstrate some amenities and so forth, and then we'll take a look at your project.
That's how we proceeded and we got through the process. The City Council got what
they wanted, the R-1 B zone. We still got the same project with just a reduction of a few
lots and increase in open space. So those are our two choices.
Meridian City Council Meeting
July 20, 1999
Page39
Corrie: Which would your preference be Becky?
Bowcutt: Well, I think my preference would be I know Shari doesn't like the PUD's
because it's such a convoluted process under the current ordinance, but I think we have
a good project. I guess the issue is left up to the Council. Are these lots problematic?
Does the Council see this as unacceptable development in the City of Meridian? The
applicant stated that he'd agree to go to 1400 square foot minimum house sizes
because their square footages are running above what your minimums are. So I'm not
sure where the fear is coming from. I think it's just something that's got entrenched and
has continued on, but I think we're going to have some real serious problems. I see you
guys are getting ready to go for grants and so forth in the paper, and they start HUB and
those government agencies start looking at what our mixes are and our values and stuff
and I for one think it is important that we provide balanced housing. My first house was
on a 7500 square foot lot, and it was affordable. Then you move up. But we need to
provide that type of housing in different areas. What you're doing is you're just
specifying this whole area is going to have one socioeconomic group, and another area
is going to have another socioeconomic group, and Shari has brought up to me that she
has seen that happen north of the freeway where the larger homes are starting to go in.
We're not getting our mix. You might talk to her about that. Thanks.
Corrie: Is there anyone from the public who would like to testify at this point? Hearing
none, any other questions from Council? I'll entertain a motion to close the public
hearing.
01W4iE•• u• -0
Rountree: Second.
Corrie: Motion made and second to close the public hearing on the request for
preliminary plat item number 12. All those in favor say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor question of Shari. Shari, what do you think about the PUD
process? Is it too convoluted as indicated or what would your recommendation be?
Stiles: Staff refers to them as puds because it is not written well. I have entered into an
agreement with Carla Olsen of Carla Olsen Planning Associates. She has done a
significant amount of work on planned unit developments and she will be coming up
with a revised draft for us to present to the Planning and Zoning Commission and the
Council by the end of September for a brand new planned unit development ordinance,
but it is difficult to work with. We don't have any real criteria for the open area except
Meridian City Council Meeting
July 20, 1999
Page40
for whatever Planning and Zoning Commission may approve, and I don't think we're
getting enough for the concessions that are made on the zoning ordinance, I don't think
we're getting enough back with the way it's currently written. I still think this is a good
project. It could easily be — I don't know, they may lose a lot, maybe two. But I still
think it's a good project and could proceed as it is without having to do the PUD. If they
were willing to give up those two or so lots.
Anderson: Thank you.
Corrie: I think Charlie's comments were valid. There's a possibility of a change if it's an
R-8, it can go into smaller homes and not saying that smaller homes are not desirable,
and we need the proper mixture, but you don't know what's going to happen down the
road. This is of course a Council meeting, not a Mayor's meeting. I have to agree with
Charlie. I really think being an R-4, you are close to the golf course and that. My
preference would be it stay at an R-4, PUD and refer it back to Planning and Zoning
Commission. If it comes to a tie, that's where I would go, but let's see where you want
to go with it.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor I move that we table the action on this preliminary plat until
August 3rd and have an opportunity to have the applicant respond to the annexation and
rezoning findings and facts at that meeting, and give us some direction on whether or
not they wish to pursue a PUD or modification of this plat.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion made and second to table until August 3rd. This is not a public hearing.
You are just going to table the request.
Rountree: Right.
Corrie: To August 3rd to have the applicant give us some ideas whether they want the
PUD or R-4 subdivision. Any further comments?
Anderson: Mr. Mayor, it seems to me like that's what the applicant was asking us is
what — they would like us to tell them what direction that they should proceed in this
matter, and I don't think we're doing that here by tabling it and asking them to come
back.
Corrie: We have a motion on the floor. Any further comments?
Bird: I have none.
Meridian City Council Meeting
July 20, 1999
Page41
Corrie: The motion is to table until August 3rd with discussion with the developer. Any
further discussion? Hearing none all those in favor of the motion say aye.
ROLL CALL VOTE: ROUNTREE, AYE. ANDERSON, NAY. BENTLEY, NAY. BIRD,
YEA.
Corrie: Thank you very much. I vote will be yea, so that we have it tabled and have
them come back with the understanding that you know what we want. It comes down to
a tie vote again, you know where I'm going.
MOTION CARRIED: 3 YEAS. 2 NAYS.
Bentley: Mr. Mayor, I move we take a ten minute break.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion made and second to take a ten minute break. All those in favor say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
(TEN MINUTE BREAK)
13. TABLED 7/6/99: FINAL PLAT FOR SHERBROOKE HOLLOWS NO. 4
SUBDIVISION BY GEM PARK II — EAST SIDE OF LOCUST GROVE AND
NORTH OF VICTORY:
Stiles: ...last time because Becky wasn't here to address the drainage problems. Isn't
that this one? Wrong project sorry. This project had previously come in in this
configuration when the whole preliminary plat came in. They since have submitted
another preliminary plat where they deleted this access on to Locust Grove. Staff
recommended a denial and Council did deny that plat, so they've come back with this
project which is virtually the same as the original preliminary plat. We did have one site
specific comment I'm not sure if Becky has addressed about we recommended that
building permits be restricted on this until the access is constructed. That won't be until
at least the water is out. That's probably the main issue we had with this particular
subdivision.
Corrie: Thank you Shari. I believe there was some comments that they wanted Becky
to give to the Council. Is that correct on this one? Mr. Bentley's response for drainage
issue. Is that on yours?
Bird: I think it was Mr. Shipley, wasn't it?
Meridian City Council Meeting
July 20, 1999
Page42
Corrie: It's the drainage on his property I think was one of them and two proposed
roads and a number of homes being built until that's built.
Bowcutt: Becky Bowcutt, Briggs Engineering, 1800 W. Overland. I believe we agreed
with all of staff's comments. Site specific number five, the question arose. This is a
new condition. They're asking if we do not have an over flow in our retention area, that
within a maximum of 24 hour period that those drainage swales basically percolate so
we don't have standing water. For the record Gary, Kathy indicated ours are designed
on that particular project with 10.3 hours. So we're fine. Staff indicated that we were
not in compliance with the street name committee evaluation based on the last
evaluation we received, we're in compliance so I guess we'll just work that out with staff.
Just for the record we did submit a preliminary plat deleted that access to Locust Grove.
The reason being is ACHD's design would not work with our approach. We withdrew
that application from the city. It never got to you guys because ACHD when we
proposed that, then sat down with us at a round table and we worked out the design
problems with the bridge. My understanding is the bridge is in the policy plan to be built
this fall. However the commission has not approved that new policy plan. They'll do
that I believe the end of the month. They've been jumping back and forth. We
understand that staff has asked that no permits be issued until that connection to Locust
Grove is made and the new bridge is installed and I've informed the applicant of that
and he has agreed.
Corrie: Any other questions of Becky?
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Any further discussions or questions from Council? Hearing none, I'll entertain
a motion then on the final plat for decision.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor, I move that we approve the final plat for Sherbrooke Hollows No.
4 subject to staff comments.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Rountree second by Mr. Bird to approve the final plat of
Sherbrooke Hollows No. 4 with staff comments and the attorney to draw up the needed
order. Any further comments? Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
14. APPEAL OF PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION'S RECOMMENDATION
FOR DENIAL OF INTERSTATE HIGH RISE SIGN BY EAGLE PARTNERS:
Meridian City Council Meeting
July 20, 1999
Page43
Bird: Mr. Mayor, I've got to excuse myself on this one.
Corrie: Okay.
Anderson: Mr. Mayor I would like to point out a possible conflict and I'll tell you what it
is and you guys can decide, but my wife is employed by the sign company who is the
ones that would be doing this sign. My wife is not the sales person and we would not
benefit in any way financially from this but I just wanted to clear that and you guys can
decide if that's a conflict or not.
Bentley: You're not going to get out of it that easy. I don't see a conflict there.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor, I personally don't see a conflict and I would let Mr. Anderson's
conscience be his guide on this. That's certainly his prerogative.
Rutherford: Mayor and members of the Council, I think that the fact that it's disclosed is
the biggest hurdle at this point. I don't see a problem with Mr. Anderson participating.
Corrie: Okay, this is a reconsideration of the denial of Planning and Zoning. We
haven't had any public hearing on this or really gotten any public testimony other than
through the Planning and Zoning. You could probably if you want you could handle it as
the same as we did in number three to delay it to a public hearing reset to have the
Council hear it on the original motion for the denial or you can address it now. That
would be entirely up to you. If you feel you have the information for the
recommendation of denial. Staff, is everybody here know what the denial was on the
sign for the 100 foot sign. Are you familiar with that?
Anderson: Maybe have staff go over what P & Z's recommendation was and the
reasons for it.
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, Chairman MacCoy could correct me if I'm wrong, but my
understanding was that they approved the Idaho Power Credit Union sign. They also
approved the sign on Eagle Road for the Chevron, McDonald's provided they had a
step down transformer for the night hours, and that that 100 foot pylon sign was denied.
Anderson: And the reason for denial of the 100 foot was based off our ordinance?
Stiles: Well because it is a part of a conditional use permit, the issue of signage came
up repeatedly throughout the public hearing process was never really addressed. The
applicant stated that it had been addressed, but that was in the initial application for
annexation and zoning and conditional use permit. This is a totally separate application,
brand new application. The reason for wanting the 100 foot sign is so that they could be
seen over the St. Luke's building. 100 feet will not allow them to be seen over the St.
Meridian City Council Meeting
July 20, 1999
Page44
Luke's building. We stated several, the staff stated several policies and goals within the
Meridian Comprehensive Plan and did not feel that this 100 foot pylon sign in keeping
with the Comprehensive Plan as I stated in my comments. The Hubble Engineers,
although they are a different kind of business, they have limited their free standing signs
to ten feet high. I personally don't care to see a Chevron, McDonald's sign coming into
work every morning as the high point on the horizon. We have a considerable amount
of acreage left to be developed in that area. If everyone wants a 100 foot pylon sign,
we can call ourselves something else besides Meridian.
Rutherford: Mayor and members of the Council, this is much the same situation as we
had in item number three. In my discussions with Mr. Gigray, the appeal situation in
Meridian in the ordinance is kind of odd. It doesn't allow for a public hearing. And so at
this point the posture before this Council would be to act on the recommendations of the
Planning and Zoning Commission which apparently would be to deny the request or to
act as you did in number three, which would be say essentially we agree that we want
to reconsider. We agree with the appeal. We want to reconsider this issue and acting
in the authority that you acted in item number three, you would essentially say we would
like to set the original application for a public hearing in front of this body, the City
Council. It would be renoticed and both Shari would have an opportunity to speak as
would any other interested party. That would avoid any potential problems we would
have with due process in this situation.
Bentley: That would be my preference. I have some questions and I'm sure Mr. Eddy
has some input he would like to have into it and so my feeling would be to have this go
back to a public hearing before us.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor, having pondered some 40 plus pages of previous hearings, I
guess that I don't find that there's probably been a stone unturned. I'm not necessarily
wanting to deny due process, but I'm not so sure that at least from my point of view my
position would change. I'm of the position of going with the recommendation of
Planning and Zoning, but we've yet to have a motion and a vote. So that's my position.
Anderson: Mr. Mayor, I guess I'm kind of the same line as Councilman Bentley. I would
like to give people the opportunity to at least hear their case as we did in the earlier
item, and I would be interested in seeing this come before the Council later on and have
it be a public hearing.
Corrie: That would be the original application for the high rise sign. It would have to go
back for a public hearing on August 17th. Is that — (inaudible) make the motion.
Anderson: Mr. Mayor I would like to make a motion that we bring this back before the
Council in the form of a public hearing at our meeting on August 17th for the interstate
high rise sign appeal of P & Z's recommendation.
Meridian City Council Meeting
July 20, 1999
Page45
Bentley: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Anderson second by Mr. Bentley to have the appeal
recommendation for denial a public hearing on August 17th of 1999.
Rutherford: Mayor, members of the Council, we should be clear that the public hearing
that we're setting on August 17th again is noticed as well as the public hearing with
specific regards to the original application and has nothing to do with any appeal. We
dispose of essentially the whole appeal vehicle here tonight by taking this action.
Corrie: All right thank you. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of
the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: 2 AYES, 1 NAY.
15. REQUEST FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT INCLUDES SIGNAGE FOR
CHEVRON C -STORE WITH GAS PUMPS & DETACHED CAR WASH,
MCDONALD'S WITH DRIVE -UP WINDOW (SAME BUILDING AS C -STORE) &
IDAHO UNITED CREDIT UNION BY EAGLE PARTNERS—NW CORNER
EAGLE ROAD & MAGIC VIEW DR:
Corrie: Staff, Shari kind of give us an idea where we're going here with this conditional
use request?
Bentley: Don't we need Mr. Bird?
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council this is the same project.
Bentley: I was wondering if he doesn't have to make the same disclosure again or
whether –
Corrie: Mr. Attorney, does he need to do it again on this one? On the record, we need
to have him do the same thing he did on the last one.
Bird: Okay I'll have to abstain from this and excuse myself.
Anderson: Mr. Mayor I would again state that my wife still works for that sign company
and my position has not changed over the previous one.
Bentley: Mr. Mayor my position hasn't changed either. He can stay.
Corrie: Do you still wish to stay Mr. Anderson? All right, --
Meridian City Council Meeting
July 20, 1999
Page46
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, this is the request for modification of the original
conditional use permit to include the signage that was never submitted as part of the
original conditional use permit. We did consider the proposed signage to have a
significant impact on the neighborhood and asked that they come through with a
modification to their conditional use permit to include the signage package.
Corrie: Shari, what's the difference between this and the one we just — the 100 foot sign
still there?
Stiles: Yes.
Corrie: Point of clarification Counsel. This conditional use permit, we're going to be
talking about the signage of that 100 foot pole. What is our options here? I'm a bit
confused. Do we need to table this until after that? Can we do that or do we need to —
we have to hear from the developer from this as well, but —
Rutherford: Mayor and members of the Council, as I went through the
recommendations drawn up by Mr. Gigray, I believe this findings and recommendations
deals with all three signs. If in fact it does deal with all three signs, yes this matter
would be better tabled to accompany item number 14. I'm trying to find whether it deals
with the 100 foot sign or not.
Corrie: It does.
Rutherford: Then that would seem to be the appropriate course of action.
Corrie: Any other comments from Council?
Rountree: None.
Corrie: I'll entertain a motion on item number 15 then to be tabled until the August 17th
item 14th on the agenda.
Rountree: So moved.
Anderson: Second.
Corrie: Motion made and second that we table item number 15 to August 17th to follow
item 14 after the public hearing. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in
favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Meridian City Council Meeting
July 20, 1999
Page47
16. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR ANNEXATION & ZONING OF 4.6 ACRES
BY TREASURE VALLEY BAPTIST CHURCH / K. D. ROOFING—NORTH OF
OVERLAND RD, SOUTH OF 1-84 & EAST OF TEARE AVE:
Corrie: I'll open the public hearing and have staff comments first.
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, I don't have a transparency on this. It's for some
property that's immediately south of the existing Treasure Valley Baptist Church. It
would run from their existing parking lot and their new building south to Overland Road.
They're proposing two separate zones. One is the L -O and then there is another that
they are proposing C -G. They want to split the property to have K.D. Roofing have their
business there on Overland Road. The next public hearing is for – well 17 should be a
public hearing for the conditional use permit for the parking and the recreational uses
and the contractor's business. Unfortunately I don't see anyone here to represent the
applicant tonight. In light of that I would ask that the public hearing be continued to the
next meeting so we can make sure that the applicant is going to be here and be able to
present their application.
Bird: I understand 17 should be a public hearing too on the conditional use permit?
Stiles: Yes, because it's not yet annexed into the City.
Corrie: Is there anybody else from the public who wants to enter testimony into the
public hearing? See none, yes Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move that we continue the public hearing for the request for annexation and
zoning of 4.6 acres by Treasure Valley Baptist Church / K.D. Roofing until August 3rd
1999.
Bentley: 3rd or 17th?
Rountree: 17.
Bird: She said the next meeting.
Corrie: The next meeting would be the 3rd. We have to still – do we have to notify?
Bird: This is already a public hearing.
Corrie: Yeah, but we need to – the next one is going to be a public hearing and we
have to notice it. So we've got to put them together.
Meridian City Council Meeting
July 20, 1999
Page48
Bird: Oh, yeah. I change that to August 17th, 1999.
Corrie: Is there a second.
Bentley: Motion made and second to continue the public hearing on number 16 until
August the 17th. Any further comment? Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion
say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
17. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR
CHURCH PARKING, RECREATIONAL USES AND CONTRACTOR'S
BUSINESS BY TREASURE VALLEY BAPTIST CHURCH / K. D. ROOFING—
NORTH OF OVERLAND RD, SOUTH OF 1-84 & EAST OF TEARE AVE:
Corrie: I'll entertain a motion to do that for the 17th as well.
Bentley: So moved.
Rountree: Second.
Corrie: Motion made and second that we have the conditional use permit on number 17
noticed for a public hearing for August 17th. Further comments? All those in favor of
the motion say aye.
►TAIs] 19I L[y_1VV1'210l/_1IW_\'1'2•01
18. DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT BY MATTHEW & DANITA HARTZ FOR 1990
N. MERIDIAN ROAD:
Corrie: We do have that development agreement.
Bentley: Is it signed?
Corrie: Yes, looks like it. Mr. Clerk, that has been signed. It shows here it has. Any
comments or questions on the development agreement, item number 18?
Rountree: Mr. Mayor I just ask that staff has any comments?
Stiles: No.
Corrie: No staff comments, all right.
Meridian City Council Meeting
July 20, 1999
Page49
Bentley: Mr. Mayor I move we approve the development agreement, authorize the
Mayor to sign and the Clerk to attest.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion made and second to approve the development agreement for the Mayor
to sign and the Clerk to attest. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor
of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
19. ORDINANCE #833 -- REZONE ORDINANCE BY MATTHEW & DANITA HARTZ
FOR 1990 N. MERIDIAN ROAD (R-15 TO L -O):
Corrie: City Clerk to read the ordinance and give it a number and read it by title only.
Berg: Thank you Mr. Mayor. (ORDINANCE #833 WAS READ BY TITLE ONLY)
Corrie: Is there anyone present who would like to have Ordinance #833 read in its
entirety? Hearing none, I'll entertain a motion for Ordinance #833.
Bentley: Mr. Mayor I move we approve Ordinance #833 with suspension of rules,
authorize the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to attest.
Rountree: Second.
Corrie: Motion is made by Mr. Bentley second by Mr. Rountree to approve Ordinance
#833 with suspension of rules, the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to attest. Any further
discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion roll call vote.
ROLL CALL: ROUNTREE, AYE. ANDERSON, YEA. BENTLEY, YEA. BIRD, YEA.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL YEAS.
20. DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT BY CURTIS & KIM PECK FOR 2400 E.
OVERLAND ROAD (JOHN BEAGLEY CUP):
Corrie: Question here Mr. Berg, is do we have a signed agreement?
Berg: Mr. Mayor and members of the Council, no I did not receive the signed
agreement. We were made commitments that were not followed through to meet the
agenda, so either we can table it or just strike it off the agenda until I get a signed
development agreement.
Meridian City Council Meeting
July 20, 1999
Page50
Corrie: Is there a reason they're not signing it, a particular reason?
Berg: Mr. Mayor and members of the Council, we had contacted them. They said that
they would get it in by last Wednesday. We didn't receive it by last Wednesday.
Further comments or correspondence with them said we'd have it Friday. We've called
them back and they have not got it to us. I do not know of any problem with signing it or
any sections or concerns of the development agreement. So I'm kind of up in arms
about what the concerns would be.
Bentley: Mr. Mayor I move we remove it from the agenda until such time as they
present it to the Clerk.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion by Mr. Bentley second by Mr. Bird to remove item number 20 from the
agenda until they come back and decide they want to do it. Any further comments?
Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
21. REPEAL OF ORDINANCE #775 — ORDINANCE #834 VACATION OF GENTRY
WAY:
Corrie: This ordinance will be Ordinance #834; is that correct Mr. Clerk? Okay the
Clerk will please read Ordinance #834 by title only.
Berg: Thank you Mr. Mayor. (ORDINANCE #834 READ BY TITLE ONLY)
Corrie: Is there anyone from the audience who would like to have Ordinance #834 read
in its entirety? Hearing none, I'll entertain a motion on Ordinance #834.
Bentley: Mr. Mayor I move we approve Ordinance #834 with suspension of rules.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bentley second by Mr. Bird to approve Ordinance #834
with suspension of rules, the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to attest. Any further
discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion, roll call.
ROLL CALL: ROUNTREE, AYE. ANDERSON, YEA. BENTLEY, YEA. BIRD, YEA.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Meridian City Council Meeting
July 20, 1999
Page51
01 9]212.1:49OVi121►1r:1�1�]:i��
A. JANICE SMITH:
TREASURER'S UPDATE.
Corrie: Is Janice here?
J. Smith: Councilmen, Mayor Corrie, you all got in your packets tonight the expenditure
reports and the investment sheet, and I'm just handing out tonight a summary of some
of the budgets that we have received. I understand that you have a notebook now.
This is a summary of everything except for the Parks, because I didn't receive that yet.
Then Councilman Bentley you request a worksheet. Do you want to check those last
two pages that I just handed out? Will that work? There is two different styles.
Bentley: That ought to help.
J. Smith: Then the notebooks that you received shows the detail of all that.
Bentley: Right, thank you.
J. Smith: We're working on the enterprise and the building and the planning and
zoning. I just want to check with you. It was — you probably need to relate to those
other departments that we're working with the 3% on the wage increase at this time.
Bentley: I have a question, Mr. Mayor. I wasn't here for the meeting when that was
discussed. Is this 3% supposed to be cost of living? Or is it somewhat of a merit?
Rountree: Having discussed the pay policy and the compensation tables, it was
concluded that we would look at initially a 3% increase, which was the cost of living.
Am I right? Adjustment to the compensation table, and after we had an idea of what
that was going to result in in terms of budget impact as compared to revenues, we
would then look at the possibility of an additional increase to that amount for meritorious
which is how our compensation plan is set up, so the 3% was an initial cut for the
department heads to budget to and then anything above and beyond that in terms of
meritorious will be up to the Council to determine as a result of a review in the budget
presentations so we've yet to determine that.
Bentley: Okay, thank you.
Meridian City Council Meeting
July 20, 1999
Page52
J. Smith: So on the enterprise accounts and the building fund, you will need to go back
because those are calculated at five percent. So I will have them turn in a new report
with the three percent.
Anderson: When we had the meeting, our Human Resource gal, who is probably more
familiar than any of us with our salary compensation study had indicated that it probably
was not kosher to give a 3% (End of Tape) because that was not how the salary survey
was based and that those should be merit increases and so obviously that was a
meeting at which no decisions could be reached, so if we want to do something formally
then I'll imagine this would be the process to do that.
Corrie: One of the things if it's not going to be a cost of living across the board and you
do it as a merit just type of thing, it will be based upon their anniversary dates rather
than October 1 st so if somebody's anniversary date is April 5th, then that will not go into
effect until April 5th of the year 2000. It will carry over the way the compensation study
was done. That was indicated by IEC. So just so you know that, Mr. Bentley.
Bentley: Mr. Mayor I have a problem. If you're not going to adjust for cost of living, then
we've wasted a lot of time and a lot of money in putting this salary survey together.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor, we've had a fair amount of discussion on that particular issue and
the process for adjusting for that is through the Human Resources Department to
annually review compensation and the program that's established and evaluate what
this consumer price index has done to wages, and if they do get out of whack, then we
adjust those wages according to the change in the market, but not necessarily a set
cost of living across the board annually and the way our compensation program is set
up, it's based on performance and where we just gave the department heads the 3% for
initial budget. What we did discuss is there are essentially four levels, five levels of
performance to would not result in any increase in wages. The standard would increase
in a certain percentage. The exceed standard, I think it was, would get a different
percentage than the exceptional would get yet another percentage. We didn't arrive at
a percentage for those three performance raises.
Bentley: I'm confused. If you just said to tell them to give everybody three percent,
then you've defeated what you just said.
Bird: No, no.
Rountree: ..to see what the impact is in terms of dollars and cents as it compares to
revenues.
Bentley: But have they assigned those figures to individual's wages?
Meridian City Council Meeting
July 20, 1999
Page53
Bird: No. They've just taken an overall Glenn. It isn't a cost of living raise. It's like
Charlie said and we can change that to four or five percent if we see what the thing is,
but going over this deal, it's total. Pauline — if we just give a general three percent raise,
we're defeating the purpose that we just spent the IEC thing for. My thought is and I will
state this forever, if you've got somebody who undesirable and you're not going to give
them a raise, you shouldn't have been around. They've been here over six months.
That's six months too long, so everybody should get a raise. But Charlie said we go out
with different raises per their performance. I didn't know Bob that we had changed to
the anniversary date and Pauline probably explained it to me and it went over my head.
If we don't do it this way, the way I understood Pauline is we're defeating our purpose of
having that IEC study.
Corrie: You would have to have department heads go back and to the anniversary date
and Pauline could do that as well and if you say it's two percent, three percent or four
percent, it depends on what they get in the rating, then they can go back and calculate
that into each person's performance evaluation and show what it would be and give you
a figure. Three percent was we were trying to get a basis for what three percent would
be. Not everybody is going to get it at the same time on October 1 st, so it won't be as
costly that way, but still it will rotate in with the anniversary date.
Rountree: As far as the three percent goes, it was just to see what the budget impact
was. None of the department heads, well they weren't present, but the ones that were
in our meeting indicated they couldn't off the top of their heads say how many standard
performers they had, how many of those standard, how many exceptional. There was
an indication that there weren't any exceptional. The vast majority were standard, so
we took the three percent as pretty rounded off as CPI, which was like 2.91 and said
okay let's see what the impact of that three percent is. If we have to go three and a half
for the above standards, and there's only 15 or 20 people in the entire city, it's not going
to be that significant of a budget impact. We're going to need to know that number.
We're going to have to know what that number is going to be in terms of percentage of
increase. Then they apply that percentage of increase to and I wish Pauline was here,
but it's to the mid range of the pay scale. Then whatever the percentage at the mid
range comes out dollars and cents wise, that's the increase to the wages, the
employees earning now will increase.
Bentley: And I understand that. My problem is that I have heard from department
heads and I've heard from employees that they're getting three percent cost of living.
So somewhere there's been some miscommunication.
Anderson: And that probably needs to be have the Mayor direct all the department
heads that that is not the case and give them a clear understanding so that the word
does get out and doesn't get misrepresented to everybody is going to get three percent.
Some people are going to be real disappointed.
Meridian City Council Meeting
July 20, 1999
Page54
Bentley: My point is I don't want to see the work that's been done get away, and —
Rountree: And we didn't either and we were assured by Pauline that she will keep track
of those classifications and pay ranges and as they start to creep away from us, then
we're going to have to take action to increase them and change the pay ranges to be
consistent with the market.
G. Smith: Mayor and Council, I guess I am confused because I was under the
impression that we had two different things that we were talking about on salaries.
We're talking about market value for positions which the IEC survey established, but
there's also a cost of living that everybody endures. If you're in the marketplace and
you have a job, you're cost of living goes up. Because prices increase and if we tie
some kind of a increase to salaries against the cost of living index or the CPI, Consumer
Price Index, that's going to allow the employee to maintain a standard of living just
based on the values of the market around him or her. The other part of the salary
increase has to do with the merit of the employee's value and the job that they're doing.
I thought they were two separate things that we're talking about. If an employee is
doing a standard to average job and that employee is worth maintaining as an
employee, but the cost of living goes up, that employee loses out if they don't get a cost
of living increase.
Anderson: Can I explain that because I was thinking exactly the same as you were
Gary, and I think Bill was thinking the same way as I was. As Pauline explained this to
me, what she will do is she will annually update the figures for our survey and will adjust
the salary ranges. That will be the cost of living or the COLA adjustment. So what we
will actually give every year is a merit increase, but those salary ranges will be adjusted
every year.
Bentley: Okay.
Rountree: If necessary.
G. Smith: If the cost of living goes up.
Rountree: No, that's not my understanding. My understanding is that the salary range
will be evaluated based on the market. The same market that was done to establish it,
and if there's no increase in the market range, the range will stay the same.
G. Smith: So the range stays the same, the cost of living doesn't come about.
Rountree: No, but if you're a standard employee essentially what we've established is
you get a three percent increase or thereabouts.
Meridian City Council Meeting
July 20, 1999
Page55
G. Smith: As a cost of living or as an increase?
Rountree: As an increase based on the mid range — based on your performance. If you
perform standard in effect if you want to look at it, yeah, you've got compensated for
cost of living, and if you're above standard, then you're going to get compensated for
the three percent plus a little bit more and if you're above that, then you get the little bit
more and little bit more. But that's performance. That way — I know what Keith is
saying about if you have a bad performer, but you might have somebody that's a bad
performer that might have some hope for. Those individuals are not even going to get
anything. They're not going to get an across the board cost of living. They are not
going to get an increase. They're not going to get that three percent. So I think the end
result is the same. It's just different terminology.
Corrie: Not everywhere in the work place does everybody get a cost of living increase.
Rountree: I can attest to that.
Corrie: I never did get a cost of living increase for 35 years where I worked. It was
based upon the merits and if you did the good job, you got a raise and that was it. If
you didn't you looked for another job. I think that based upon what we're doing here is if
the cost of living is 2.5, we're giving a three percent. If you are doing what you are
supposed to do, you can call whatever you want in your own household. But as far as
the city, it's based on performance and it's adjusted accordingly and if you don't do the
job if you're not doing it, you probably shouldn't be there anyway. I don't think we have
a lot of employees that are (inaudible)
Rountree: I think on either extreme, we don't have many if any.
Corrie: I know in my case, I never had any supervisors or department heads that had
five as an overall range. I got some close, but they're not fives.
G. Smith: I was confused.
Corrie: I know and there was others confused.
Bird: So were we, Gary.
Corrie: I will take care of the confusion in the morning if that's what the Council wants to
do.
Bentley: That would definitely be my choice and maybe have Pauline explain it to them.
Meridian City Council Meeting
July 20, 1999
Page56
Rountree: Yeah, I think have Pauline explain it to them because I think she sort of
11unconfused" most of us. There's still confusion on my part.
Bird: Mine too, Charlie.
G. Smith: I guess the cost of living maybe should be just removed from conversation
then.
Bird: I'd change it to merit.
Rountree: It's a merit increase, but the reality is the merit is going to be based on some
kind of an index and it's probably going to be CPI.
Corrie: In a very, very theoretical sense the cost of living happens to go down, you
surely wouldn't want your pay to go down. If you do a merit job, you'd want to be
compensated for that. It will never happen, but in the context of that, you can't have it
both ways. Any other comments on the fund survey. I think we'll get some others
coming into — figures coming in.
J. Smith: I'll update this summary. I'll be meeting with Kenny on the fire wages with the
union and then when I get parks I'll get you an update. I guess that's — okay.
Bird: We got the parks.
Bentley: The parks is new. We have the new one.
Corrie: The new one and you'll have yours in the morning.
J. Smith: Okay, thank you.
B. CHIEF KENNY BOWERS:
FIRE DEPARTMENT BID RESULTS.
Bowers: Mayor Corrie and City Council members, as you know we've had a committee
together for a building of a new fire station on Franklin Road. We had advertised for
bids for the new building. Eleven companies came and got packets for bids for the new
fire station. Eight of them turned in bids, so we were very pleased with the bid numbers
that we got this time. ZGA was also pleased with that many bids. The bids ranged from
$1,034,218 was low up to $1,135,000 so all eight bids were within just minute numbers.
ZGA has went through the contract, went through the bidding process and
recommended that we would go with Beniton Construction here in Meridian. Low bid
was $1,034,218. Beniton had checked all the subcontractors, they all they their current
Meridian City Council Meeting
July 20, 1999
Page57
Idaho Public Works Contractors license. They're all new. The bid bond is in the
appropriate amount and the dates are correct. Do you guys have any questions on
this?
Bentley: Kenny the question I have is, does you or ZGA have any problem with the
amount of this bid considering ZGA figured 1.6?
Bowers: That was with land. Yes, that was with land and we were talking very heavy
you know moving dirt around, bringing dirt in, taking dirt out, so that was 1.6 was with
the land and everything.
Bentley: Thank you.
Anderson: I have a couple of questions. I am not sure it's of Kenny or maybe just
anybody in the room. Maybe Gary would know because he deals with these types of
bids, but there's a couple of items besides the based bid price of $1,034,000 but there's
some alternates on there. One is they give us by the yard price for cleaning and
grubbing and removing soil at the lot and another one is by the yard price for structural
fill. They don't actually know how many yards that's going to be until they do that work.
So if we approve the base bid in a set dollar amount, then do we got to come back then
and get approval for those additional excavation and fill charges or is there some way
that we could word the motion to include the base bid fee and these unit prices?
Bird: I think they're in the document.
G. Smith: Mr. Mayor and Council members, Councilman Anderson I haven't looked at
the bid documents. I'm not sure how it's structured.
Anderson: It's AIA document and the unit prices are included in that document for those
yardages but we don't know what those yardages will be until they actually start cutting
and filling material.
G. Smith: There wasn't a bid item in the bid document for those two items then to
establish any bid price. This was just established as part of the bid. Is that correct?
Bird: It was an alternate bid part of the bid package for unit prices, and I think in the AIA
that addresses and that becomes part of your package, but you can't put down a total
bid until you know how many yards is going to be cleaned and how many is going to be
brought back in. Isn't that right, Gary?
Smith: Yeah, if they didn't do any kind of a detailed — if there's —
Meridian City Council Meeting
July 20, 1999
Page58
Bird: It's an alternate bid part of your bid package if I remember right seeing the bid
package, it was an alternate part of it.
Anderson: The alternate Keith I think is only the fire sprinkler system. The unit price is
not an alternate.
Bird: It's a unit price, which is an alternate. It's a unit price per yard and then they just
multiply that by your base bid to do as that and then this is all added in depending on
what you have.
Bowers: Councilman Anderson, I'm not sure if this will confuse you more or confuse me
more. Paul the way he explained to me was if we had to remove more than 2,082 cubic
yards or if we had to haul in more than 4,740 yards, that these prices would kick in.
That's the way he explained to me.
Anderson: That makes sense to me now then.
Bowers: What those figures for those cubic yards are in the $1,034,218. That's the
way I understood it from Paul.
Corrie: Okay does that base bid have that fire sprinkler system in it then too as well?
Bowers: Yes. That base bid is with a fire sprinkler system in it. If we did not want the
fire sprinkler system, then we would take out the $24,000.
Corrie: Okay.
Bowers: Does that confuse you any more?
Anderson: It helps.
Bowers: Also Paul from ZGA had made up a contract, an AIA contract. He brought and
put in your boxes. We didn't get it until 5:30 tonight so we haven't — I haven't got to go
through it and Will hasn't got to go through either I'm sure. I'm not sure if you can
approve this type of a contract with Gigray looking into it later or what your rathers are
on that AIA contract.
Bird: What did your specs call? Did the specs call for an AIA standard contract; didn't
it? Okay then it's a standard form that's used for millions and millions of dollar jobs. Is
this what you use, Gary? What do you use? Just one of your standard forms?
Smith: We have an engineers agreement.
Meridian City Council Meeting
July 20, 1999
Page59
Bird: Okay. I'm not familiar with them.
Smith: It's similar but we're a little different.
Bird: Yeah, but this AIA is a standard form which you are well familiar with.
Smith: It's a standard form Councilman, yes. I might add that typically what we do and
I had a telephone conversation with Paul today is that we present the bid results to
Mayor and Council for your acceptance on Public Works projects and if you so desire to
accept the bid as the award to issue award of the bid tonight and then the award goes
out to the contractor. The award is signed by Mayor and attested by City Clerk and then
that goes along with three originals of the contract to the contractor and then he signs if
he accepts that. He signs off on the contract and returns that to us to you along with the
performance and payment bond and certificates of insurance. Once that's all received,
then Mayor will sign the contract for the City of Meridian. But I think typically and this is
probably the same kind of deal and Paul made up a notice of award based on some
information I sent to him that this evening you would accept the bid and award the
contract to Beniton on the basis of what they did if that's your desire.
Bowers: I was a little confused on this contract also because I had never heard Gary
when he gets up and does his bids, talking about contracts, so I was a little concerned
that I didn't know how far we needed to discuss this.
Anderson: I would make a motion that we accept the bid and award the contract to
Beniton Construction Company of Meridian, Idaho in the amount of $1,034,218 for the
construction of the new fire station on Franklin Road.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Anderson second by Mr. Bird to approve award the notice
of award to the low bidding contractor which was Beniton Construction Company in the
amount of $1,034,218. Any further discussion on the motion? Hearing none, all those
in favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Bird: Mr. Mayor, I would like to state something publicly and I know Ron, Kenny and the
Fire Department people and Malcolm worked very hard on this. Also I thank ZGA, Paul
in particular, and Mike Simmons need to be commended. Very few jobs come under
estimate and these people I was fortunate enough to look at the specs and the plans
first class, that's why I believe you see such close bidding, so I would just like to say
thank you to all these guys that have worked hard to get this thing off the ground. I'm
sure we're going to have a great building and Beniton will do a good job.
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July 20, 1999
Page60
Bowers: I had one more quick thing. Two days ago I put in your box the ordinance for
creating a fire department. I didn't know if you got to read that or not. I was under the
impression that possibly the attorney would have something tonight, but I found out he's
out of town so probably put that on the agenda for another night, but do you guys have
any questions on that, bring them to Ron or myself and we'll try to answer them for you.
Thank you very much.
C. GARY SMITH:
1. BID AWARD OF BIOSOLIDS DEWATERING TO TURNKEY.
Smith: Thank you Mr. Mayor, I would echo what Councilman Bird said about the results
of the bid for the fire station. When you get them that close, that is indicative of a fine
set of plans and specifications. Also I had the opportunity to work with Beniton
Construction on a small job here at city hall remodeling the Mayor's area, and they were
a real pleasure to work with. They seem like a real class act. I think you had a good
contractor too. The item I have to present to you tonight is a request — well we had a bid
opening for the biosolids dewatering project out at the Wastewater Treatment Plant, and
we had five bidders. The low bidder was Turnkey, Inc. out of Ontario, Oregon at
$1,165,104. Again we had a good group of bids very tight, very close to the engineer's
estimate. Turnkey has done several projects for us at the Wastewater Plant. Based on
the work they've done, they could probably just open up a satellite office out there and
maintain staff on site. We've reviewed their bid and everything is in order. We would
recommend the award of the contract to Turnkey, Inc. from Ontario in the amount of
$1,165,104 for the construction of the biosolids dewatering project. I don't know if you
are aware of what this project is. It has to do with removing liquid from the digester
material so it won't be hauled and spread as a liquid any longer. It will be hauled by — it
will be a class A biosolid, usable on lawns, yard, shrubbery. That sort of thing. It gets
us out of a lot liabilities, a lot of record keeping and presents us with a lot better product
for disposal.
Bird: Gary, where does this go on line at? Just out of curiosity. Does it go back by the
ponds is this where this goes in or is it part of the system right now?
Smith: It's near the digester area.
Bird: Is it part of the existing digester or is it its own building sitting —
Smith: It's its own building.
Bird: And the solids run through that?
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July 20, 1999
Page61
Smith: After they come out of the digester.
Bird: After they come out of the digester, then it goes through that.
Smith: Right, it's called centrifuge is what it is. If you remember the chemistry days, it
spins the liquid out of the material.
Bentley: Gary, how close is that to the compost?
Smith: Well it's actually taking the place of the compost project. The compost was an
alternative (inaudible).
Bentley: But it puts us actually at the same stage.
Smith: Oh, yes. I don't know that much about it, Glenn, but I'm thinking we're probably
getting a better material than we would by composting it. I'm not sure of that.
Bentley: So Tom won't have to buy fertilizer any more.
Smith: Well it will certainly be available. I'm not sure that he won't have to buy it. But
there will be availability of that material.
Bentley: Is this something that we're going to sell or just giveaway? How do we get rid
of it?
Smith: I don't think we're going to have a problem getting rid of it once people know
we've got it once it's available. The farming community will still be a client so to speak,
but instead of hauling it out now if we get to the point where we're generating a lot it.
Because the amount is going to shrink dramatically just because we're taking the liquid
out of it. I don't remember now pounds how much we're going to generate, but it's a
very small number of trips out of there now that we're hauling compared to what we haul
in liquid form.
Bentley: Thank you.
Corrie: Any questions?
Rountree: Mr. Mayor I move that we award the biosolids dewatering project to Turnkey,
Inc., Ontario, Oregon authorize the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to attest for $1,165,104.
Bird: Second.
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July 20, 1999
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Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Rountree second by Mr. Bird to award the $1,165,104 to
Turnkey bid and the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to attest. Further discussion? All
those in favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
2. ENGINEERING AGREEMENT FOR TRUNK LINE EXTENSION AT
WWTP.
Smith: The second item Mr. Mayor I would request we table that until the next Council
meeting please.
Rountree: Well I'll move that we table the engineering agreement for trunk line
extension at the WWTP until our next regularly scheduled meeting.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Rountree second by Mr. Bird to table the item at Gary's
request on item 2 until the next scheduled meeting which is August 3rd. Any further
discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Smith: Thank you Mr. Mayor and Council. That's all I have unless you have questions
of me this evening.
Corrie: I have two items left. One is Charlie and then Glenn wanted to give you a
daycare update.
D. CHARLIE ROUNTREE:
1. DISCUSSION OF PLANNING & ZONING COMMENTS.
Rountree: Actually I have two. One relates to a discussion that we had with Touch
Mark Living Center who is going to — wants to be a neighbor to St. Luke's and St. Luke's
and Touch Mark are working out a potential land swap to expand the St. Luke's site by
possibly an additional ten acres and moving Touch Mark's retirement extended care
facility further east which would incorporate a piece of property roughly from Eagle
Road to Cloverdale from the interstate to Franklin all in medical facility or extended care
facility by both St. Luke's and Touch Mark. I have some site layouts. I have a brochure.
I think Shari, do you have some additional copies? I'm just going to pass these out and
pass them around and see what they're talking about. We're in discussion with legal
right now on seeing whether or not we need to amend our comp plan in order to
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July 20, 1999
Page63
accommodate what it is they're trying to do or whether we can possibly do this through
some other mechanism like calling it an R-8 residential and moving forward with that.
It's quite a set up. St. Luke's is impressed with them. We want to be neighbors and
they want to work together, they are working together. Yeah, nothing but dollars there,
but it would be one heck of a complex and it is probably the largest piece of property
I've seen in my 12 years here with the City of Meridian developed in a master plan
development. When we get through the question of whether or not we're going to have
to do a comp plan, we'll probably see them in here real soon. Anyway that's
information. The other thing I have relates to this episode with Byron Smith, some
comments that were related to me and that I reviewed on the tapes of the Planning and
Zoning Commission meeting on some of the publicly made comments as to what the
Council did and didn't do with respect to asking for Mr. Smith's attendance at meetings
and those kinds of things. In reviewing that tape there were some other comments
made that I find absolutely unacceptable to the point of almost being libelous and I think
the Council needs to be aware of that. Council has been represented as having met
and discussed the issues with Byron Smith and reviewed tapes as it related to some of
his actions, and made recommendations that he not attend meetings and those kinds of
things and in my opinion the Council has not met and made any discussion on that
particular item. There was also another comment made on the tape that related to the
Council's action on Cobblestone, which apparently is the situation that got Byron
crosswise and that the Council had voted two to two and the Mayor had to break the tie.
The statement was made publicly on the tape that that was an arrangement and the
results of that was that the Mayor came out looking good. I find that totally
unacceptable. That was not an arrangement in any way, shape or form. I don't know
how that information has been related to Mr. MacCoy. He's the one that made the
statements. Some other representations of what the Council did and didn't do primarily
what the Council didn't do, but represented as if the Council met and made decisions
related to that particular instance. There was also some indication that the City Council
wants to get involved in sign ordinances and what do they know about signs I believe
was the comment that was at the planning and zoning meeting, and then there were
specific comments made about Mr. Bird. Again I find that these kinds of statements on
the public record are — I'm not so sure libelous. I for one can't accept them. I'm on
record tonight saying that the Council has not met on this particular issue, did not make
any decisions or recommendations, that the Council did not arrange any vote as it
related to Cobblestone apartment complex on the corner of Franklin and Locust Grove
and has not indicated in any way, shape or form that they want to do anything but get a
sign ordinance and get it so we don't have the situations that we've seen tonight. I don't
know what action the Council wishes to take. I've looked into it. Planning and Zoning is
an independent commission for the City of Meridian and one that we find very valuable
and does a good job for us. I've been a bit concerned of late with some of the disarray
at some of the meetings and some of the recommendations that have been made, but I
guess we all can't see eye to eye. But there is some indication here that the Council
has control over Planning and Zoning to the extent that we can override their
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July 20, 1999
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recommendations or approve nominations to that particular commission or in fact we
can discharge individuals with a majority vote of the City Council. I'm not proposing
anything. I'm just pointing that out. The other thing that really bothers me is that and
think we all received in our baskets either yesterday or today a draft of that particular
meeting and there are words that are on that tape that are not in this, so I'm not
accusing anybody, but I'm telling folks right that if this is the record, I am going to the
Attorney General's Office and have an investigation made. There is something going
on here.
Bird: Mr. Mayor, I am going to try to be very, very politically correct. If this would have
happened three or four days ago, I'd be up in the ceiling. I don't like stuff publicly
coming out like this. It is just ridiculous. I mean when you say there's arrangements
made so the Mayor can look good, I want to know where that stuff is coming from to the
Planning and Zoning. We have nothing to do with Planning and Zoning. They're a
separate entity. I would like to know why all this stuff is coming out about this and
where it's coming from. That makes us look like a bunch of crooks and I have never
talked to another Councilman regarding a vote of anything nor have they talked to me.
Corrie: Charlie, you said there was something on the tape that wasn't on the written
down on the transcript.
Rountree: I don't find anything in this particular transcript this evening that relates to the
discussion that I overheard on the tapes, and that particular statement that there was a
vote two to two, there was an arrangement made and the Mayor came out looking good.
Bird: Okay, here's the original. Here's the first bunch that was taken. Charlie, do you
have that now? That's the first one I went in and asked for when I and I'll be up front, I
was called by a commissioner to go ask to get it, I called Angel, got it and I also got the
tape. Is that not in the one we got tonight?
Rountree: It's not in there.
Bentley: I was looking at that tonight. You know I just got back in town, so I haven't
had a chance to go through it. If you read the last sentence on the first page, and the
first sentence on the second page, it's missing.
Rountree: That's where it's missing, so I don't know if there's a page missing. I don't
know if it's intentional. But —
Corrie: What we need to do is listen to it and have it transcribed right.
Bird: I want to know why this stuff is happening.
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Rountree: I agree.
Bird: This isn't the first time, this is just the first time it's been brought to our attention.
Bentley: The copy I've got is not this one. It's missing a page or pages.
Rountree: Like I said, I'm not accusing anybody. I'm saying the record needs to be
recorded right. This stuff is all on the record. I would rather not talk about it on the
record, but it is on the record or going to be on the record, and I tend to agree with
Keith. However, why ever or whatever is causing this needs to cease. The
representation of the Council is the causation or the doer or the director of some of
these things has to stop unless there's a meeting with the Council and the Council
makes that information available to whomever is going to speak those words. I don't
think you want that on the public record.
Bentley: I wasn't even aware of that until just now because I haven't seen it. Like I said
I'm missing pages.
Rountree: I know, and I'm sure (inaudible). Not only do we not want it, it's an untruth.
Anderson: Yes, I mean if someone is going to make a statements about things that I've
said or things that I've arranged, I'd like to know where they're coming from and what
basis they're making those accusations from.
Rountree: I guess from the Council's standpoint we get this transcript cleared up, I will
go to the Planning and Zoning, and I will make a statement to that group that there's
misinformation being provided to them as it relates to what the Council has said and
done on the specific points that I'm aware of. In the future if there is a representation
that the Council took a position, I would request that they investigate that with the
Council before they make a decision. I would further say we as a body can do whatever
remedy we want with the Planning and Zoning Commission and with the statements
that are being made. I just wanted to discuss it. I don't know that we necessarily take
an action. I know that I was as angry as Keith was when I first got involved in it. I've
since mellowed, but I think there ought to be some action.
Bird: What I want to get clear is why they're a separate entity and unless — is there an
amendment to this ordinance? Do you know? Shari, do you know? Okay, there isn't a
thing that says here that the Mayor and Council runs the damn thing, but — excuse my
language, but I'll tell you every other word is Mayor said this. He met with the Council.
Well I can get myself, my mouth by myself. I don't need no help from anybody else.
And I think it's time it stops. We're two separate entities dang it.
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July 20, 1999
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Rountree: We are and we need both and we need to have the autonomy and
independence that you know we can work together and make good decisions, but we
can't be making good — right now as near as I can tell, any way we go on this particular
development we're right for going up and grabbing the arrows and start sticking them
into ourselves. We've got to get the record clear and —
Bird: That's so libel, it's not even funny.
Rountree: It starts with a discussion I think with our legal counsel on how to do that. I
guess my position tonight for the record is that those statements were not made, those
meetings were not held with the City Council, there were no arrangements made and
there were no decisions made by the City Council as it relates to Byron Smith, as it
relates to the Cobblestone apartment complex and as it relates to the workings of the
Planning and Zoning Commission. Having said that I think the record should be clear if
you all want to have that followed up with a motion and you endorse that statement,
that's fine, but this is not the end of this issue. We've got to get it taken care of.
Bird: Charlie, I think it's a good idea. I would like to know where this person is getting
this is being done and that's being done, and that's being done by the Council or by the
legal or by the Mayor. I want to know where it's coming from. That's the place it's got
to stop.
Rutherford: Maybe that should be subject to an executive session.
Bird: Okay.
Anderson: (inaudible)
Rountree: No, but we didn't notice it so I wouldn't suggest we do it this evening.
Corrie: (Inaudible)
Bird: I would move that we have an executive session next meeting the 3rd. (End of
Tape)
Bird: ...you bet I can.
(Inaudible)
Bird: Wait a minute. We can't be sitting here and discussing something and then have
an executive session?
Rutherford: You can discuss having an executive session, but you can't have one.
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July 20, 1999
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Bird: Why?
Corrie: Because you haven't noticed it.
Rutherford: It requires noticing.
Corrie: What you need to do Keith is exactly what you did.
(Inaudible)
Rountree: If we're discussing the motion and it's been seconded because I throw my
two bits in as I agree. We probably ought to do it right now, but in the heat of passion
and —
Bird: I think we better wait until the 3rd
Rountree: Glenn and Ron, you probably need to look into it a little more and maybe
discuss it, think about it, calm down. I guess my question to Keith would be do you
have the Chairman of the Commission or have the entire Commission in that executive
session?
Bird: My thing is with the entire commission. I think they're involved. I think I would like
their viewpoints. I mean I was called by a member when this happened that asked me
to do this because of their concern and I'm very concerned about it Charlie.
Rountree: My question is does your motion include that entire body?
Bird: Yes, I'll take the entire body.
Rountree: For our next —
Bird: August 3rd
Corrie: Do you want to have it before or after the meeting?
Bird: I would like to have it before.
Bentley: Discussion. Can get a new transcript so we've all got the same pages?
Rountree: Let's make sure we get a transcript of — and if you want copies of the tape to
listen to, I'm sure we can do that as well.
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July 20, 1999
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Bird: All you need is section 17 and the first, and I will — I don't have the tape on me.
One of the other Councilmen has got the tape, but I did get the tape. I will tell you that.
If anybody wants to come after anybody's head, they can come after mine.
Corrie: Okay we have a motion on the floor to have executive session on August 3rd
and have the entire Planning and Zoning Commission at that meeting, and we would
like to have it at the beginning at the meeting so (inaudible).
Bird: The shorter the better probably for me guys.
Rountree: I suggest that we probably put that at 6:30.
Corrie: All those in favor of the motion?
Bird: (Inaudible) to also invite the member that resigned? What's the other Council's
feelings?
Corrie: I think you're going to get into a kicking contest there. I don't think it's
necessary at this point.
Bird: Okay no problem. Okay.
Corrie: Any other discussion? All those in favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Corrie: Note that for 6:30.
Bentley: That's the 3rd.
Corrie: 3rd of August. Will, would you get a new transcript the whole thing and we can
put that to each one of them, because I didn't have the whole thing either.
Berg: Mr. Mayor and members of the Council, it's my understanding that that meeting —
the transcription is completed so I will review and make sure all the pages are in the
right order and make sure you have a complete copy of those minutes and you can pull
the pages that you would like to, because you normally get a complete copy anyway.
Bird: No, we don't. Planning and zoning?
Corrie: Yeah, you should.
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July 20, 1999
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Bird: I believe I haven't. Why would I want a complete copy of Planning and zoning?
see enough of it when I do my things here.
Berg: Okay, you'll get a complete copy of this.
Bird: This one is fine.
Bentley: Yes, just an update on the daycare. I stopped by tonight and gave them some
more stuff, which thrilled them, actually they wanted it. It's stuff from the (Inaudible) and
they are looking at a time table of either mid to the end of September bringing it before
us for our review and before they do that, they will meet with the providers and then
they will make corrections there, and I told them at that point when they get it corrected
then to give me a copy so we can get it to the legal beagle and have him go over it and
put it in ordinance form and then they'll present it to us for review and I told them we'd
schedule a public hearing.
Rountree: Glenn, you have you provided them any direction, I mean are they just going
— we don't know where they're going with this thing until we see it.
Bentley: No, at the opening meeting we had, I gave them the directions that we had
discussed as a Council what we were looking at and the direction we wanted them to go
and what they have done, they have been pulling ordinance together from Boise, other
cities, other states, working with the State Health and Welfare getting stuff for them, the
State regulations and trying to pair everything together, and from what I've seen so far it
looks good.
Rountree: We're not creating an enforcement — an ordinance nightmare.
Bentley: I made it very, very clear to them that what they were doing was going to have
to be reviewed both by legal and by us and at the public hearing that there would be
probably changes made, and you know it was up to us for the final approval, but we
wanted to them to get the ground work done to what they think is workable.
Rountree: One direction you might give to them is that we may want to look at that in
draft form and get comments back to that committee prior to it being submitted for
drafting into an ordinance.
Bentley: We can do that.
Rountree: Thank you.
Corrie: I'll entertain a motion to adjourn.
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Bird: So moved.
Rountree: Second.
Corrie: Motion made and second to adjourn. All those favor say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 11:10 P.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
APPROVED:
ROBERT D. CORRIE, MAYOR
ATTEST:
WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., CITY CLERK