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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1998 05-05MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING MAY 5. 1998 The regular meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order by Mayor Robert D. Corrie at 7:30 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT: Ron Anderson, Charlie Rountree, Glenn Bentley, Keith Bird, Mayor Corrie. OTHERS PRESENT: Wayne Crookston, Gary Smith, Bill Gordon, Will Berg, Angie DeGrange, Kathy Sokoli, Tammy de Weerd, Elaine Estacio, Steve Padoris, Bernie Jestrabek, Moe Alidjani. Corrie: Council, I just have a proclamation that the Good Sam Club has asked if I would do, and I've done it for them. So, I'll just read the proclamation by the Mayor on Saturday, May 16, 1998. (Proclamation read in its entirety.) Council, you have the minutes of the previous meeting held April the 21St, 1998. How do you vote on the minutes for April the 21 st? Bird: Mr. Mayor, I make a motion we accept the minutes of the April 21 st meeting. Rountree: Second. Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bird and second by Mr. Rountree we accept the minutes of the April 21St, 1998 as written. All those in favor, say aye. MOTION CARRIED: All ayes. Corrie: We have the minutes of the special city council meeting held April 7t" 1998. Rountree: Mr. Mayor, I move that we approve the minutes of the special city council meeting held April 7t", 1998. Bird: Second. Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Rountree and second by Mr. Bird that we accept the special city council meeting held April 7t", 1998. MOTION CARRIED: All ayes. Corrie: And the last one is the minutes from special joint city council rural fire district meeting held April the 14t", 1998. Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 2 Anderson: Mr. Mayor, I make a motion we accept the minutes as written. Bird: Second. Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Anderson, second by Mr. Bird that we accept the minutes as written of the joint city council rural fire district meeting held April the 14th. All those in favor of the motion, say aye. MOTION CARRIED: All ayes. Corrie: I'd like to welcome the scouts here tonight from troop 30 in Meridian. Welcome fellows, and hope we can give you some highlights on city council here. ITEM NO. 1: FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT FOR THE VILLAS AT THE LAKES SUBDIVISION — NORTHWEST OF CHERRY LANE VILLAGE NO. 1 BY STEINER CORPORATION. Corrie: Council, is there any discussion on this tabled item? Crookston: Mr. Mayor, I have declared a conflict of interest on this. I will step down. Bentley: Mr. Crookston, before you depart, I need to ask did you author these findings? Crookston: No, I did not. Bentley: Thank you. Rountree: Just to get some discussion going on this item and item number two, tabled preliminary plat for the same subdivision. We had met individually with the developer on this particular issue, have discussed some changes in the preliminary plat that would reflect, need some changes in the findings of facts. I understand by letters that I have received and phone calls and information that's been received by the city, that there are a number of individuals that would like to see what the changes are in this preliminary plat. Being that we had not taken action on the public hearing even though we did close the public hearing, I would suggest that we consider either moving this back to P & Z for hearing or rehearing before the city council. Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 3 Bird: I concur with Charlie. I think that some people would like to have a clearer deal of what the changes were. I feel comfortable with them, but I think that some of the other people aren't. Bentley: I would agree that it needs to go back. Anderson: I'd like to see it go back to P & Z and go through the process again. Corrie: Okay, if that's what the conclusion is of the council, I'll entertain a motion to that effect on items one and two. If that is the council's pleasure. Rountree: Mr. Mayor, I move that we move items one and two tabled April 21 St related to findings of fact and conclusions of law for a conditional use permit for a planned unit development for Villas at the Lakes Subdivision northwest of Cherry Lane be reheard before planning and zoning with the amended plat and that be scheduled at the earliest possible date for planning and zoning. Bentley: Second. Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Rountree and second by Mr. Bentley to refer back to planning and zoning for the earliest public meeting on the agenda of the planning and zoning. Any further discussion? Rountree: I believe the information that we have received from the public desiring information and expressing some concerns about this should made available to the applicant so they can take that into consideration in the next hearing. Corrie: Okay, we'll do that. Any further discussion? Berg: Since the attorney is not here on this issue, Charlie is your motion desire to go through the whole process of two public hearings? One before P & Z and one before City Council, or would you like the recommendation of the P & Z after the hearing is done? Why I say this is it should be pretty clear what they are going to do, just have one hearing or go through the whole process again. Rountree: I didn't know there was an option. I'm thinking it goes to planning and zoning and comes back to us with their recommendations. That was my intent. Corrie: They have to have another public hearing, yes. Inaudible. Rountree: Either that -- as far as discussion could we — we've closed the hearing. By motion can we remand it back to P & Z and request them to reopen Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 4 their hearing, and then when they are done, come back to us and reopen our hearing. Corrie: We can do that if that's your desire, yes. It's going through the process again is what you're doing. Rountree: Well, I see some structure difference from just what the applicant has to do. Corrie: The way I understand it, you want to at least let the public have another crack at this. Rountree: Yes. Berg: Just a comment. You've heard the application. You've made some comments. He's willing to make some changes. You want the public to have more input on those changes, but you are not totally rejecting the project. Rountree: Correct. Berg: So that's not really going through the whole application process with him reapplying, but you are just going through the public hearing process to make sure the public get the input. Rountree: Correct. Berg: Okay, I think that's what the intent was. Corrie: Just for my clarification. They are changing some changes on the plat as well. So they are going to have to address that at planning and zoning as well. Rountree: My motion included both items one and two, which is the findings as well as the plat. Corrie: Any further discussion? All those in favor of the motion, say aye. MOTION CARRIED: All ayes. Corrie: I'll make sure planning and zoning gets that same word. Rountree: That Mr. Campbell get that information. Corrie: I will see that he gets that too. Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 5 ITEM NO. 3: REQUEST FOR INSTALLATION OF SEPTIC SYSTEM FOR A WAREHOUSE BUILDING BY MCCALL PROPERTIES. Corrie: Gentlemen, we are still getting stonewalled by Mr. Saum and the group. I think we better make a discussion on that to have the septic system — or not septic system — the 200 hundred feet and that land we are probably have to go through condemnation procedures and put in that section of the sewer line and then follow up later with Mr. Van Auker's 300 acres that's going to be for sewering. So if you want us to put this on the agenda for the next meeting, and for the finalization for that procedure, I think Councilmen — Council, I think there's a procedure we have to follow; is that correct on the condemnation? Crookston: Yes. Rountree: Mr. Mayor, I would have a question why we have to put it back on the agenda. It seems to me action on our part would initiate the condemnation (inaudible) this evening, if that's what we desire to do. Corrie: Okay, if you want to do that, I just wanted to have some discussion. Smith: Mr. Mayor and Council, I guess I need some clarification from Mr. Crookston. Can the City declare condemnation on this easement if it's not a City project? In other words this is a private project at this point, as I understand it. It's funded by others than the City. Crookston: If the land is in the City of Meridian, the City can condemn it. Smith: For this purpose? Crookston: For this purpose. Smith: Even though it's not a specific city project. Crookston: That's correct. Smith: Thank you. Crookston: There has to be a need for it. Corrie: If I'm understanding that right, the City does not have to do that 600 feet across there. It could be done by others other than the city. Correct? The condemnation, but there has to be 600 feet of sewer line. Does that have to be done by the City, or can it be done with the private enterprise? Crookston: I don't know that there's any 600 feet limitation on it at all. Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 6 Corrie: I understand there's no limitation, but there's 600 feet in question. That's what the amount is. Does the city have to do that or can it be done by somebody else out there. The land has been condemned for that purpose. Crookston: A governmental agency has to do it. Because they are the only entities that have condemnation rights. Corrie: Did that answer your question, Gary? Crookston: The condemnation, you go through a legal — a lawsuit to do that for any type of condemnation. Bird: Gary, you are asking though if we have to — if the city has to pay for it as it goes through, and I think that's what the Mayor was asking. Smith: Yes. Bird: And the private developer that's putting in the sewer with the latecomers fee, paying him back. Can he take it through or does the city have to fund the 600 feet that you condemn of sewer. We know the city has to do the condemnation, but do we have to pay for the sewer through that 600 feet, or can the developer that's putting it in pay for it, and then get his money back in the latecomers fee. Crookston: I think that's something that would have to be worked out between the city and the developer. But I think if the city is going to condemn it, they either have to pay for it by themselves, or work out an agreement with the entity that is going to benefit from having that sewer to service their property. Rountree: I think the point to be made is that the sewer is the city's no matter who builds. Smith: It would be the city's at a point after it's built, after it's accepted. Then it would become the city's. Up to that point, it's not. And that's why I wanted to be sure that the condemnation, that the city was going to enter into, I assume it has to be tied to the project. And does the city have to be the primary moving force for the project. The construction of the project through the condemned area. Crookston: Since the city is the entity that would be condemning the property, they are the proper party and any cost would the city's. Smith: To build the sewer line. Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 7 Crookston: To build the sewer line. I mean it's not an easy situation because of the dollars it's going to cost to condemn the property. Smith: Then Mayor, may I ask a follow up question? Will the city be required to enter into a contract with a contractor to build that length of sewer line through the condemned area? Crookston: Yes, they would if that's what the city wants to do. The city has to decide first of all whether or not they want to condemn that land for the placement of the sewer line. Smith: But if the city does decide to condemn it, they have to enter into a contract to build the sewer line through that condemned land. The line can't be built by the developer. Is that what you are saying, Wayne? Crookston: Actually I'm not certain as to how that could work out, but it's the city — if it is the city's decision that they want sewer to go through that property, then they are the entity that has to condemn it. How they go about funding that is totally a different question, but I think it's a real hard question to get someone else to fund it when the city is going to be doing the condemnation. Bird: But you're doing the condemnation because to get to the other property so it can all go on by. Once that property is condemned, then the joint deal that you do with the developer would cover that ground too. I would think. I don't know why we would have to pay for it unless we wanted to if the developer is willing to take it through. Once we get the property cleared, it wouldn't be any different from the other properties going down because he don't own all the property down there. He's got to get — you know, he's got right-of-ways to get through that. Rountree: It seems to me we might be jumping to a conclusion here about condemnation. I would suggest the city consult with an acquisition firm, seek acquisition of sufficient right-of-way or easement for the extension of the sewer through this property to and including if need be condemnation. My guess is it probably wouldn't ever get to that point. But I think we need a professional acquisition person to do that to make the appropriate appraisals and offers and get on with this. Apparently the developers involved can't get it done. It's imperative for the city to get that sewer extension in there for other reasons. That's how I would suggest going about it. Corrie: Okay, I can entertain that as a motion then and move it on. Rountree: Mr. Mayor, I move that we instruct the city attorney and public works administrator to work to consulting with an acquisition firm for the acquisition of a right-of-way or easement for the extension of the sewer line in question to and including condemnation action on the part of the city if that need be. Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 8 Bird: Second. Crookston: Motion made by Mr. Rountree, second by Mr. Bird on the motion as stated. Any further discussion? All those in favor of the motion, say aye. MOTION CARRIED: All ayes. Rountree: Mr. Mayor, I believe when we last talked about that particular septic system someone was — I think Shari was going to consult with McCall Properties and see what the timing was. I don't know if anybody is here from those folks tonight. Gary, have you heard from? Smith: No, I haven't. Rountree: So I don't know if they are on a tight schedule or if they are just kind of flexible waiting for us. Corrie: I think that's what it is. What I would suggest is that we reject the request for installation of the septic system and move that off the table here and get it out of — Bird: I make a motion that we reject request for the septic system by McCall Properties. Rountree: Second. Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bird, second by Mr. Rountree that we reject the request for installation of the septic system for warehouse building by McCall Properties. Any further discussion? All those in favor of the motion, say aye? MOTION CARRIED: All ayes. ITEM NO. 4: REQUEST FOR HOOKUP TO SEWER BY CATHERINE D. JESTRABEK. Corrie: So, Catherine, would you like to come up and tell us what we have here. Jestrabek: Just to say what I need to have done? Corrie: Yes. Jestrabek: Okay, we have property there that we — our septic system I mean our drain field isn't working well, so we'd like to hook up to the city. We really don't wish to hook up to the water if we can help it because we have a wonderful Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 9 artesian well. And it would be sad not to be able to use it. We have two — the big house and the little house. There's just two of us that live there. We want to hook up the big house because when we — down the road if we sell the property, I doubt that it would be sold together because where it's located and such. So we felt that the big one would be the one to hook up and the little one, the drain field would be okay to be one there. Rountree: Do you understand the arrangements that the city makes with these hookups in terms of double fees and that sort of thing. Was that explained to you? Jestrabek: Yes, because we're in the county, I understand it costs twice as much, yes. Rountree: I think the other question I had was whether or not for sure both houses would be hooked up or we're just talking about the one. Jestrabek: We would just like the one. Corrie: Any other questions? What is your name? Hart: Bernie Jestrabek Hart. Bentley: I have a question for Gary. Is everything all right with hooking this up and setting the rates? Smith: There shouldn't be any problem. We did stub a service line into the property from the Englewood Creek Subdivision, and the use fee would be a fat rate of whatever the homes in that area are using for a minimum during the winter. That would be your sewer bill. Monthly would be same. Bentley: Thank you. Corrie: Any other questions? Okay, thank you very much. Council, your pleasure on the hookup? Rountree: I move that we approve the request for hookup to the sewer by the Jestrabeks on Ten Mile Road, understanding the double fee for the hookup. Bentley: Second. Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Rountree second by Mr. Bentley that we accept the request for hookup to sewer with the double fees involved. Any further discussion? All those in favor of the motion, say aye. Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 10 MOTION CARRIED: All ayes. ITEM NO. 5: REQUEST TO AMEND DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT FOR RAVEN HILL SUBDIVISION PHASE 2 — EAST OF LOCUST GROVE AND SOUTH OF OVERLAND. Corrie: Is anybody here from — Chandler, is he here? Yes. Would you like to tell us what you need the amendment for? Chandler: Mr. Mayor and Council, my name is Allen Chandler. I'm representing Raven Hill Partnership. What we're asking is to continue with our second phase of development for Raven Hill. We've platted the whole thing to start with, and when it entered into non -development agreements with Ada County and City of Meridian. At this point in time, it's impossible to tile the Hunter Lateral, which was part of our requirements. We are also required to install perimeter fencing. What we have planned all along was to install perimeter fencing at the 20 foot easement line back from the property line along the Hunter Lateral even after it was tiled. What we'd like to do is go ahead and fence that, continue with our construction. We are planning to work with Nampa Meridian Irrigation District to tile that. We will furnish the materials. They will install per their specifications with their equipment. We can't get to tiling that ditch of course until fall at this point. We would like to start construction. Corrie: Council, questions? Rountree: Discussion last meeting relative to this request was about the irrigation system, pressurized irrigation system. Chandler: Unfortunately I didn't know we were on the last agenda. We did not even have water supplied by Nampa Meridian to that system at that point in time. Since then it has all been worked over. I have personally supervised the installation of that pumping house station, and it is all in working order. We are finalizing the delivery systems with Nampa Meridian at this point. I've been working very closely with them the last two weeks. In Raven Hill, we have no problems whatsoever. They have not accepted this system in whole because there are still some things with Salmon Rapids in their final phase, I believe is what they are finishing up now, but there is not any problem with the irrigation system. Rountree: And you do have water? Chandler: We have water. At the time that this was rejected, there had not even been — or set aside, there not even any water being delivered to the pumping station. Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 1 l Rountree: Thank you. Bentley: I have a question. It's my understanding that Nampa Irrigation District is pretty full for the construction for this fall. Do they have this scheduled on their schedule to be done? Chandler: They do not have anything schedule for this fall. The way I have been instructed by Bill Hanson from Nampa Meridian Irrigation District is they set their schedule at the first board meeting in September, and not until. I've been asking for well over a year to be included in this, and he says do not even send it in. Be at the first board meeting in September, and get in then. We are also having to supply a bond for this. If this is not going to happen within 90 days of the water going out, I will put the pipe in, and I would be happy to have that be a stipulation. I would just like to work with Nampa Meridian so they are happy with it when we get it in. But if there's any chance we are not on their schedule, we will go ahead and put it in within 90 days of the water going out. But they are not accepting anything for their schedule at this point in time. Rountree: Just a comment to that. If you are working with Nampa Meridian Irrigation District at the September meeting, your materials better be on the job site or they won't even do it. Chandler: Yes. I'm talking with Bill Hanson about that. Corrie: Further questions? Smith: Mr. Mayor and Council, I've been in contact with Nampa Meridian Irrigation District, and in accordance with what Allen has said, John Anderson made the comment that Allen has been working really hard to get the pump station going and running and since the water was put into the ditch. I haven't talked to John lately but he didn't have any concerns with the system as far as the pump station is concerned or Raven Hill. Although as Allen said they haven't made a final acceptance of the system yet pending some things that have to be completed in Los Alomitos, maybe Salmon Rapids, I'm not sure which subdivisions, but the final phases of those two subdivisions are being completed now too. I've also been in contact with Far West Developers' representative, and Kim didn't call me back today, but I'm waiting for some conversation with her to see what's left to be done in those two subdivisions, so this they can be finally accepted by Nampa Meridian and put to bed. As Allen said, he's going to construct a fence along the lateral and I was going to recommend although he already said he would bond for the pipe and the installation, assuming that Nampa Meridian wasn't able to do it for one reason or the other. It would get done. And I think from that standpoint all that this exercise Allen wants to be able to receive building permits for the lots along Hunter Lateral that would back up to the fence that he would install along the Hunter Lateral, and that's the Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 12 reason for the bonding and so forth so that he could have building permits for those lots. I think that's all I have unless you have some questions of me. Rountree: Gary, one of the issues that we talked about last time was the fence. And the unsightly conditions that result. What are your feelings at this point? Do you get any sense from Nampa Meridian that they will work with us in taking care of that problem or are they willing to not have these rights-of-way or easements fenced so that homeowners can take care of them. Smith: I guess I really haven't visited with them specifically about that issue other than I have made a comment or two to them that it is a rather unsightly situation and we're really concerned — we the City are concerned about what's going to happen to that sort of no man's land area. But we haven't resolved anything. There hasn't been any comments from them of another way to do it to handle it. Rountree: I might give that same question to Mr. Chandler if he's had an opportunity to discuss that with them. Chandler: I have not discussed that specifically with Nampa Meridian. I've dealt with this situation in the past. With the tiling of the ditch, we will put up a 6 foot cedar fence rather than a chain link fence which blocks it off. What that does is allow them to put a road down there which normally is what the situation has been. With the large pipe lines, when we put those in the back yards of homeowners, it tends to cause more trouble than if we let them use that portion. I have been involved in that in the past with different irrigation districts, and really recommend that you don't allow that to happen. If the ditch is there, then you fence it off and let them have it, but if you put that big pipe line in there, the first thing that happens no matter how many times you tell them they can't they put a storage shed in there. The irrigation district comes through. There's a plug somewhere. They plow the fence down and dig up the pipe. I don't know what the plan is for that piece of property that borders that. I've heard several things from the subdivision to a high school. There should be — there's a 40 foot easement there. By the time the pipe is put in, if it's all done properly, they should all be done on our side of the 20 foot, so the next developer won't have any problem with that. A 20 foot easement through there, and they would have their road to go through for maintenance, get gravel and weed abatement taken care of should alleviate most of the problem. I know what your deal is with that. If there's a high school in there, it also makes a good pedestrian path. That's a tough situation. If we put up the cedar fence rather than the chain link, it will help somewhat. Corrie: Any further questions? Thank you very much. Any further discussion on the amended development agreement? Okay. Hearing none, what's your pleasure? Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 13 Rountree: I move that we approve the development agreement amendment requested for Raven Hill Sub. Phase 2 with the stipulation that a bond be provided the city for the pipe and installation of the pipe in the event that Nampa Meridian Irrigation District does not get that accomplished this fall. :3T0111111II&V..iON Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Rountree, second by Mr. Bird to approve the amended development agreement for Raven Hill Subdivision Phase 2 with the stipulation of having a bond for the pipe and installation of Hunter Lateral should the other not work with the irrigation district. Any further discussion on the motion? All those in favor of the motion, say aye. MOTION CARRIED: All ayes. ITEM NO. 6: REQUEST FOR BEER, WINE AND LIQUOR LICENSE BY MOE'S INC. Alidjani: Mr. Mayor, gentlemen, and Council, I really don't have anything to add on to my application except the fact there is a letter in there that if it is possible to refund a portion of the application since that application has been already paid for by original owner January 1 st, and if it's at all possible to consider that. Rountree: We don't refund anybody. Alidjani: Thank you, Mr. Rountree. (Inaudible) Corrie: Any questions of Mr. Alidjani? Council any questions? Bentley: Mr. Clerk is it customary to do pro -rating on these? Berg: Mr. Bentley, in the past we have pro -rated six months I believe. I would have to ask Wayne if he can remember, but I think that's what we've done in the past at least the six month period. So it's a half year, not quarterly. I'm not sure what exactly our ordinance stipulates unless Wayne can remember. Crookston: I don't think our ordinance speaks to pro -rating, but I think that the City Council has done it in the past. Corrie: For a half year? Crookston: I don't know if it would be a half year. Corrie: Quarterly? Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 14 Crookston: Quarterly. Corrie: That's what I thought, but I thought I heard something mentioned about half a year. Bentley: If there's no further discussion, I would move that we approve the beer, wine and liquor license for Moe's Inc. and pro -rate it to the proper quarterly figures. Bird: Second. Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bentley and second Mr. Bird to approve the request for beer, wine and liquor license by Moe's Inc. with the adjustment on the quarter. Any further discussion? All those in favor of the motion, say aye? MOTION CARRIED: All ayes. ITEM NO. 7: REQUEST TO AMEND DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT FOR DEVLIN PLACE SUBDIVISION BY D.W. INC. Corrie: Is there a representative for that here tonight? Wood: Mr. Mayor and Council, I've got the same problem the previous developer had. I've got the Rutledge Lateral up there in the very southwest corner, and so for me to comply with my development agreement, I can't complete that ditch until the irrigation water is out. So what I'm asking the Council to do is allow me to get my building permits when my sub's done with the understanding that I will complete that as soon as the irrigation water is out of the ditch. What I see happening there is I'm going to have to tile the ditch. It's going to affect part of the sidewalk there and that temporary turn around so I've faxed this to the fire chief and Kenny kind of took a look at it. He thought with that little bulb there, the knuckle there at the cul -da -sac, he though temporarily we could use that as a turn around for the 60 days or so. So what I'm hoping to do is go ahead and complete it as far as I can, but knowing that I can't finish that temporary turn around, maybe hold back a couple of those building permits so that you know that we won't have any problems there, but I'd like to get the building permits at least to that knuckle. So I've put x's there on those lots to make sure that we don't have any problems with fire service or anything like that. That's what I'm here for, and just like the previous one, I'll have to bond for that anyway to make sure the work gets done, so I don't have any problem with that either. Bentley: Kenny, is this suitable enough to you, give you enough room and everything? Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 15 Bowers: Yes, we discussed this with Dan last week and also this morning, and as long as he's just going to build it. We have allowed in the past to allow two lots to go by a turn around so this will work out okay with the Meridian Fire Department. Bentley: Thank you. Corrie: Any further discussion? Wood: Thank you. Corrie: Any further discussion from the council? Anderson: I make a motion we approve the amendment for the development agreement for Devlin Place Subdivision with the stipulation that he provide a bond for the tiling of the ditch at a later date. Bird: Second. Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Anderson, second by Mr. Bird to approve the amended subdivision development agreement by Devlin Place with the stipulation of a bond for the tiling. Any further discussion? Rountree: Can we understand from the information that Mr. Wood provided us that he would not be requesting building permits for the designated lots in the illustration or should we include that as part of the motion? Corrie: Well, if you want to narrow it down, we can. Rountree: I trust him. I don't have a problem. He's on the record. Corrie: Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion, say aye. MOTION CARRIED: All ayes. ITEM NO. 8: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A ONE STATION HAIR SALON — 503 W. PINE BY STEPHEN & KAYE PADORIS. Corrie: So at this time I will open the public hearing and invite Stephen or Kaye or a representative would like to come up. STEPHEN PADORIS 503 W. PINE WAS SWORN BY THE CITY ATTORNEY. Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 16 Padoris: We have an existing home that we would like to take one of our utility rooms and make into a one station hair salon. And I'd like to comply with planning and zoning, their requirements. I've talked with Ada County Highway District and their first recommendation was for me to widen the driveway and subsequently dealing with them, they have told me that as long as I provide a turn around where people can pull out of the driveway head first of their vehicles as they enter the highway, that would work out real good with them as opposed to widen the driveway by basically 50 feet, and I think that's about where we are at right now. Back at a couple of the hearings at the planning and zoning I believe was suggesting that maybe the sign for my wife's shop might be put on the house itself. I'm not sure whether they are going to hold us to that requirement, but as far back from the road as the house sits, the fact we have apartments on one side of us and large trees on the other side, people driving along the street would not be able to see the sign if it is that way back at the house. So I guess at this point, I'd like to request that we might be allowed to have a smaller sign out closer to the sidewalk and the street area. (End of Tape) Corrie: Any questions from Council? Bentley: I believe in the planning and zoning minutes and the findings, someone asked you a question did you know whether the covenants allowed this. Padoris: By that question if I am in a subdivision with restrictions and covenants, no we don't have that on my property. I'm not really in a platted subdivision per say where I am tied to the rules and regulations. Bentley: They discussed with you I believe the handicapped access. Padoris: Where my wife has been dealing with Shari, and to iron out what's required so that we can comply with the American Disabilities Act. I know that there's a — my understanding is that we can comply if it's somewhat reasonable. Now there's two areas that I've got to get ironed out. One would be on the steps leading to the entryway. It would be very difficult to put any kind of a ramp from the steps out to ground level because it would block the access to my garage, and if I run the ramp along side the house, then it would require moving the gas meter, which would be a considerable expense trying to move that. As far as say a handicapped bathroom, providing wheelchair access, that would require a major remodel on our part, and financially that would just shoot our desire to put in the salon. It wouldn't be very cost — it would be cost prohibitive to us at this point to consider any large remodel. Bentley: One final question I have on the sign. In the findings of facts from P & Z, you stated that for the most part the shop would cater to friends and family. If that's the case then why you really need a larger sign up out in the yard. Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 17 Padoris: Maybe I should take part of that back. We would like to have drop ins, and we would like have (inaudible) cut some hair. But I think with my comment at the time, it was to indicate that she wants to be just a small basically low volume. We probably can't see more than maybe 3, 4 haircuts a day over the course of the month. I really can't see much more than that. So, basically it would be hair cuts, really no perms. It would be a small amount of water, sewage being used because of the low volume. Bentley: Have you discussed signage with your neighbors? Padoris: A couple of them on either side, and they seem to have no problem. They are actually encouraging us to put in a shop so they can come over and visit and get their hair cut. Bentley: That's all I have. Rountree: Just a point of clarification. It appears that the motion to approve the findings of facts included the addition of the language for the small sign attached to the building. So that is part of the findings of facts. My question to you, do you have any difficulty with any other aspects of the findings of facts that were prepared by the planning and zoning? Padoris: No. I was a little bit disappointed last month when I was down here and they talked about putting the sign up on the building. My impression from the previous month that they made the suggestion of putting it up there. Last month at the facts and findings, the one member stated, he said, well, we are going to require it to be on there, and I really wasn't allowed to speak up and say anything at time. Rountree: I just wanted to point out that that actually is part of the Findings and that's what we had before us. Padoris: Right, I guess that's why I brought up the sign is that they're recommending there I guess this is my shot with you gentlemen and especially if you drive down First Street or 99% of the businesses around take a look and all their signs are right up by the sidewalks, you know right up along the street, there's very few that have signs actually on the building face itself and just the fact that our house sets so far back we even went so far the other day as to take pictures of our house to show you gentlemen but — Rountree: I guess not to belabor the point but those instances that you site are actual commercial districts and you are in a residential zone so there's difference in terms of what people expect and there's also some difference in terms of the way you're taxed so — Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 18 Padoris: Okay. Corrie: Any further questions? Alright thank you very much. Any questions of staff? Anybody else from the public that would like to enter testimony at this time? Hearing none I shall close the public hearing. Any further questions from Council? We have a Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law here on the conditional use permit so — what would be the Council's pleasure? Bentley: Mr. Mayor, I would move that the City of Meridian hereby adopts the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law as presented to us by Planning and Zoning. Bird: Second. Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bentley second by Mr. Bird that we approve the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law as presented by the Planning & Zoning Commission. ROLL CALL VOTE: Mr. Bird — yea, Mr. Bentley — yea, Mr. Rountree — yea, Mr. Anderson — yea. Corrie: I'll entertain a motion on the decision recommendation at this time. Bentley: Mr. Mayor, City of Meridian hereby approves the conditional use permit requested by the applicant for the property described in the application with the conditions set forth in the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law or similar conditions as found justified appropriate by the City Council and that the property be required to meet the water, sewer requirements, the fire & life safety codes, uniform fire code, parking requirements, the paving and landscaping requirements and all ordinances of the City of Meridian. The conditional use permit shall be subject to review upon notice to the applicant by the City and also must follow the sign requirements. Bird: Second. Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bentley second by Mr. Bird on the decision recommendation with addition and follow the sign ordinance. Any further discussion? All those in favor of the motion say aye. MOTION CARRIED: All aye. ITEM #9: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT TO CONSTRUCT A NEW CHILD CARE FACILITY BY SUSAN EHTESHAMI — 875 W. FRANKLIN ROAD: Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 19 Corrie: I'll open the public hearing and have the representative from the applicant — Cook: Mr. Mayor and Council, my name is John Cook of Cook Design Studio Architects. Crookston: Your address? Cook: 1111 S. Orchard, Boise. Crookston: Do you promise, swear or affirm that the testimony that you give tonight at this public hearing be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you? Cook: Yes sir. Crookston: Please proceed. Cook: This evening I'd like to re -iterate the discussion about the project that's located at 875 W. Franklin. The applicant has commissioned our office to design and develop a child care facility, Dreamland Education Center. The project is comprised of a single structure 80x80 to give you 6400 square feet and attached to the building is a covered playground equipment area, it's 32x40, and if you're looking at the site plan you can see that in our initial application we had a parking configuration which we had parking designed that had been adjacent to the property on the west side. In our last hearing it was recommended by commission members that we re -design that site plan, we have done so, our total parking is 24 parking count, the facility is going in for licensure of up to 150 children, we're looking at the property as designed to carry staff load of nine to ten and that would leave fourteen for parent parking, we have access on a secondary street which goes into the commercial development, the owner Mr. Gray Wolfe will be leasing the facility to our applicant Susan Ehteshami, we're looking at the site being landscaped and one item that was brought up during our commission hearing was adequate landscaping to buffer the adjacent residential area, we've gone back and brought in a denser landscaping configuration for all the adjacent properties located on the west side, we're looking in the new site development plan of relocating the enclosed trash enclosure, that has been relocated on the site no longer adjacently as we had previously shown next to the subdivision neighborhood, we've taken it clear over to the other side of the property. The playground area will be enclosed with 6 -foot high fencing that will be kept locked as far as fence and gate, the Fire Marshall is making very specific requirements on his gating requirements, the building itself will have sidewalks around it and it will have stucco finish, we're trying to come in with a theme which will be a play land as far as the design theme you see in the documents. We've got an amended vicinity map that was brought to our attention which we've Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 20 shown the new configuration of all the adjacent subdivisions, that is no longer an issue, Fenway Park No. 2 & 3. My client would request your approval this evening on this project. Bentley: Mr. Cook are you aware or is the owner aware of the construction that's going to take place on Franklin Road, changing it to virtually six lanes, five lanes of traffic? Cook: We'd heard that there would be five or six lanes and we're working very closely with ACHD. Bentley: So you understand that traffic is going to be significantly increased out there? Cook: We understand that, it probably won't make a difference whether the child care center is there or not. Bentley: Well that's not my point, I'm talking about the safety, the safety issue of the children. Cook: Right, and we pulled our playground clear to the back of our site development plan. Bentley: Do you have any plans for what the — you said the building was to be constructed of stucco, what your color schemes are going to be? Cook: We do have that — Mr. Chairman I have a colored board if would be of any benefit tonight to show you. Bentley: Yeah, I think it would. Cook: The color theme selected by my client, basically light beige tans as far as the general stucco color coming in with light gray accent and we were looking at just natural sealer tones as far as a shake roof and there off different roof materials out there that are textured as shake would be or metal roofing material, I'll get into that as far as architectural document. The corner design features are not occupied, there is no glass in the upper corner turrets, we're looking at the glazing itself in and around the building as far as natural light and ventilation it will be a very well lighted natural light facility. The landscape plan that we've got in our application here has landscaping adjacent to the building to soften the architecture, we're looking at fairly high ceilings on the inside, ten foot ceilings would be very spacious inside. That's all I have for right now, thank you. Rountree: You indicated that the turrets on either side really don't function? Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 21 Cook: They're not occupied, basically a strictly design setting. Rountree: Does the design work one without them and two with them reduced in scale in terms of height? Cook: We've looked at a couple themes with them reduced in scale, we've felt that the design proportion didn't work but that's not saying that that may be a consideration. Rountree: Is there a function for the center turret as well? Cook: Yes, the center turret is a clear story for a large center area that would bring basically a lighted glass center, the glass in the center. Rountree: Do you have a plan view that shows the landscaping that's proposed at this point? Cook: We do have on your site plan, the site plan is a combined site plan and landscape plan. Rountree: I was just wondering if you had something that some other folks could see that you might stick up? Cook: I didn't color up a landscape plan but we could make that available. Rountree: I have no further questions. Corrie: Any further questions of Council? Bird: I have none. Corrie: Okay, thank you very much. Do we have anyone else in the public that would like to issue testimony? Crookston: State your name and address please. Embury, C.: I'm Clarence Embury of 948 Crestwood Drive and we are along with our neighbor that's sitting back here — Crookston: Excuse me sir, you need to be sworn. Embury, C.: Oh, I'm very sorry. Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 22 Crookston: That's fine. Do you promise, swear or affirm that the testimony you give tonight at this public hearing is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? Embury, C.: Absolutely. Crookston: Please proceed. Embury, C.: Thank you. We are joining this property that's just been described, now gentlemen think of this, think of this, a hundred and fifty cars go in there to drop off the children, I've got no objections to children but you've got heavy traffic on Franklin and it's getting worse every day and I think that you want to think this pretty serious, in the first place it's zoned for housing not for commercial and the next thing you're going to have to do is put in stop lights to control the traffic on Franklin and into this business, now that's something you want to think about before you okay this here and besides it's not a good location, it should be on another street someplace where it isn't a five lane highway where there's traffic and it's getting worse everyday because I live there. Now I don't know whether I'm telling you anything that's worthwhile listening to or not but you're going to find out you're going to have to put stoplights in just as sure as I'm sitting in this buggy that's what it's going to end up doing and I don't think it's the proper place, now I got nothing against children, I respect them very much because I've got two good ones anyway that's my thought and that's my little input. I think the people themselves are doing a sad, sad mistake by putting it in that location. I think that by you gentlemen and I forgot to acknowledge all you gentlemen including the Mayor and that's all I've got to say about it so if my suggestions are any value at all — Corrie: Thank you for your input, appreciate it. Anybody from the council have any questions at this point. Rountree: No I don't have any for Mr. Embers. Embery, C.: I used to be able to walk pretty good but not anymore. Corrie: That's okay I'm glad you — Rountree: You drive really well. Corrie: -- do a good job driving. Thank you. Is there anyone else here who would like to issue testimony in this? Crookston: Would you state your name and address please. Malory: I'm Gene Malory, I live at 958 W. Crestwood Drive. Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 23 Crookston: Do you promise, swear or affirm that the testimony you give tonight at this public hearing will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you? Malory: Yes I do. Crookston: Please proceed. Malory: I'd just like to add my little bit of weight to declare there what he said, we've watched this thing be rezoned several times next to us and I think now it has a R-15 rating on it which is small houses and this just doesn't seem to be the thing and we're not like he says, we're not on a small street anymore or we won't be within a year and we worry about the traffic and the noise and we had a lot of worries about where they're going to put the dirty diapers for a week, I assume that's been taken care of, it's sounds like it but I haven't seen what it is and I think that's about it. Corrie: Okay. Rountree: Mr. Mayor, just a point of clarification from Mr. Malory in terms of what that property is zoned for, it is R-15, that does not equate to small houses, that equates to potentially multi-level, multi -family type of development so in your mind it might be something similar to Stubblefield, just down the street to the east, those apartment there so I just wanted to make sure you understood. Corrie: Anyone else from the public that would like to issue testimony? The young lady in the back? Crookston: Would you state your name and address please. Secoli: Kathy Secoli, 503 North Avenue H, we'll be moving to 2534 Flat Ridge. Crookston: You need to be sworn. Do you promise, swear or affirm that the testimony you give tonight will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you? Secoli: I do. Crookston: Please proceed. Secoli: Mr. Mayor and Councilmen, I'm here as a concerned parent. Since I'm going to be moving to Meridian I have been looking for childcare centers and cannot find anyone adequate for my child. The only thing that I'm hearing here is traffic and I feel that Franklin is going to be busy anyway and I think most parents who are going to be traveling that road will be traveling it anyway whether there's the facility there or not. One hundred and fifty or a hundred and sixty cars aren't Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 24 going to be coming all at once, they're going to be coming in in moderation, I've been in this business for twelve years and have worked in facilities larger than that and it doesn't happen like that. Also it's only in the morning and in the afternoon that the traffic's going to be there, it's not going to be all day. As for diapers and garbage and things like that I don't think that's a problem because they're all in bags, everything's covered, it's away from the residential areas so me personally I feel that those two things are minor and the City of Meridian really does need a good quality child care center, thank you. Rountree: If I might, if this is approved and becomes a reality would you utilize this facility? Secoli: Yes, I would. Rountree: Okay, there's a customer for you so — Corrie: Thank you. Anyone else? Yes ma'am. Crookston: Would you state your name and address please. Embury, M.: I am Mabel Embury, I live with that man that was in the wheelchair for 65 years. Corrie: Congratulations! Embury, M.: Thank you. Crookston: Do you promise, swear or affirm that the testimony that you give tonight at this public hearing will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you? Embury, M.: It is our last home I'm sure, it's our life saving and our backyard will be right beside where those little children are going to play, yes we love children, we are great -great-grandparents but we spend a lot of time in that yard, he can't get out and get to parks and everything like other people, that is where we spend our time and there will be and little children are noisy and that's where we'll be is right next to a facility and when we bought that it was residential and I understood it would be residential and we wonder you know how it could be made so easily when there is so much property around I'm sure that might be better for such a facility. That's all, I'd welcome them somewhere but not at my back door, thank you. Corrie: Thank you, congratulations to both of you by the way, I thought my 41 years was a lot but not 65 so congratulations! Anyone else from the public? Yes ma'am. Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 25 Crookston: Would you state your name and address please? Estacio: Elaine Estacio, 232 South Outfield Way, Meridian. Crookston: Do you promise, swear or affirm that the testimony you give tonight at this public hearing will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you? Estacio: Yes, I do. Crookston: Please proceed. Estacio: Mr. Mayor, Councilmen, if anybody has any objections to Meridian getting a new daycare facility they obviously don't know the frustrations we as parents face trying to find good care for our children of all ages. According to the list given to me from the child care licensing department as of the end of March 1998 we have only 47 licensed day cares in Meridian, six of which are out of city limits, 27 of which care for less than 184 children which leaves the balance of 14 day care centers to care for all the rest of our children while we work. With the population of Meridian nearly 30,000 and 20,000 children enrolled in our schools where do our infants, pre-schoolers and after-schoolers go? As an adjacent property owner too and resident of Meridian I believe having daycare close and near my home is to my neighborhood's benefit. A lot of our children are latch key kids because they do not have the facilities in our part of town and near our grade schools for our children to go before and after school. As for the noise, well I welcome the laughter and noise of a child to help drown out the industrial noise we already do have on the Franklin Road area but in reality these children are not going to be dropped off into an empty field but a large building and divided into smaller groups and not left outside to scream and shout day and night. As for traffic, well I can't see parents that are already driving down Franklin Road headed to work stopping to drop their children off adding that much more to the traffic. The owners of this facility have done everything they can to accommodate everyone's concerns and as a state -licensed facility they will face scrutinizing from every department as long as they are open. Something is going into this vacant lot eventually, I'd much rather it be something safe and beneficial for our youth. I give my support for this proposal, thank you. Corrie: Any questions? Anyone else? I believe there's a hand back here, yes ma'am. Crookston: Would you state your name and address please? DeGrange: My name is Angie DeGrange and I live at 900 West 12th Street in Emmett, Idaho. Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 26 Crookston: Do you promise, swear or affirm that the testimony you give tonight at this public hearing will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you? DeGrange: Yes I do. Crookston: Please proceed. DeGrange: Mr. Mayor and Councilmen, basically I just wanted to give my support to this child care facility because I also am going to relocate and when I have checked into the current childcare situation right now especially for after- school latch key children there is like a year's waiting list at this time which means that I cannot relocate and move over here for employment until I can find a place for my son and he is also is attention deficit and I understand that this is going to be an educational center which is going to offer programs for children for like that that need to be doing something all the time and so actually unless I move here and take my child out of Meridian there is not, other than a couple of small homes, for my son and so I am definitely in support of this and that's what I was here to say. Corrie: Okay, thank you. Any questions? Thank you very much. Anyone else wish to — yes ma'am. Crookston: Would you state your name and address please? Ehteshami: My name is Susan Ehteshami and I live at 5569 North Tumbleweed Place. Crookston: Do you promise, swear or affirm that the testimony you give tonight will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you? Ehteshami: Yes I do. Crookston: Please proceed. Ehteshami: Well I'd like to — I've been working on this opening but instead I'd like to apologize to Mr. & Mrs. Embury for inconveniencing them and making them and making them travel down here and I'm sure it wasn't a pleasant trip for them and I really would like to apologize for that and we have seen some of their concerns and as Mr. Cook went over every thing we have tried to do the best we could to accommodate their concern, we have put in an indoor playground area so when the kids are in need of some activities they can play in the indoor playground area and that's not to say that the kid's are never going to be outside if you know, there are going to be times if the weather cooperates, teachers will take the kids outside and they take turns and they will be supervised so the kids Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 27 don't get overly loud but mainly this society has given me and my family so much and I value education and family so much that that's one of the ways that I can give back to this society. Some of the parents have made the comment to me that I'm not in this business only for the financial end of it, we do own another business, a successful business in Meridian, and as a mother I had my kids in daycare until February. I walked into a center back in February and I saw my child being placed on top of a washer and there's not a worse feeling than that, I looked everywhere and I couldn't see my three-month infant and finally I found the director and I said where's my baby and they said oh, she was sleeping so we didn't have a place for her, we put her on a washer in the kitchen and I thought it's time to do something, make a difference and financially it's not an easy thing for us to go through but again hopefully the payback will be to the community and to us as parents as well. Again the concerns, we really have tried to address the concerns and if there's anything else you would like to have us to change or propose we're more than willing to go ahead and make the changes but really our kid's they need a good daycare yesterday so I would like you to take that into consideration and let us know and the traffic has been coming up again, we all know that Franklin is going to be widened and then the main entrance to this facility it's going to be on the side street that Mr. Wolfe is going to put in his property and it's not going to be directly from Franklin so there's going to be a side street that goes there and from what I understand R-15 you can put in fifteen homes per acre, this is about I think 5'/2-6 acres so that can easily add 150-160 cars traveling that route so I'm really asking you to please consider approving this proposal for the people of Meridian. Thank you. Rountree: Did you get an opportunity to read the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law from Planning & Zoning? Ehteshami: Yes sir. Rountree: Do you have any issues, concerns with those? Ehteshami: No, there was a problem with the garbage and we were careless in placing it where we had placed it to begin with and we took action on that and we moved it as far away as we could from residentials and I also have spoken with Mr. Alidjani and he referred me to another gentleman at Meridian Sanitation and they said they can have pick-ups six days a week if we pay the additional charges which we're willing to do. Rountree: Thank you. Ehteshami: Thank you. Corrie: Any further testimony? Yes ma'am. Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 28 Crookston: Would you state your name and address please? Berry: My name is Sandy Berry, I live at 9696 Gloria Road in Middleton, Idaho. Crookston: Do you promise, swear or affirm that the testimony you give tonight will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you? Berry: I do. Crookston: Please proceed. Berry: I just want to let you gentlemen know that I'm another concerned parent. I live in Middleton but I work in Meridian, I'd like my kids near me so they're not so far away so if they're sick or something I don't have to go all the way to Middleton to take care of them. I have physically been to several day cares in Meridian, we really need quality daycare. I'm in support of it, a lot of the daycare centers are also on the other end of town and you know if you go down First Street it's getting harder and harder to get to the other end of town so I'm really in favor of one on Franklin on this end and that's all I have to say. Corrie: Any questions? Thank you very much. Anybody else that would like to make testimony tonight? Yes sir. Crookston: Would you state your name and address please? Howell: My name is Ryan Howell, I live at 661 W. Woodbury. Crookston: Do you promise, swear or affirm that the testimony you give tonight at this public hearing will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you? Howell: Yes. Crookston: Please proceed. Howell: Gentlemen I would like to lend my support also to these people and their efforts to build a quality child care facility in this good neighborhood that we live in. I'm a very fortunate father, I have two young children and I'm lucky enough that my wife is able to be home with my children however I have a lot of friends who do not have that ability and I see the frustrations that they go through. I also have seen some of the frustrations that they've had as they've gone in and seen what's going on with their children and I would like to vouch for the character of the owners. I've been associated with them in business and I've also met their children and the way that they behave and I would love to have more children like that in my neighborhood personally and so not only do I believe that it's a Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 29 gook asset for our community but also that these individuals will do an extremely good job as well, thank you. Rountree: Thank you Ryan. Corrie: Anyone else issue testimony? Yes ma'am. Crookston: Would you state your name and address please? McDonald: Lona McDonald, 1019 E. Puffin, Meridian. Crookston: Do you promise, swear or affirm that the testimony you give tonight be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you? McDonald: Yes, I do. Crookston: Please proceed. McDonald: There again I am a very concerned parent with a child in Meridian. I would like to be able to go to work knowing my child is well cared for in a good facility. There's nothing worse than going to work not knowing what type of care your child's getting so I just think that Meridian needs a very good quality center and I'm in support of it. Thank you. Corrie: Thank you. Anyone else? Mr. Cook you have the last work since you were the first representing the client's, do you have anything to say? You don't have to come up if you don't want but you can. Bentley: Oh he does. Corrie: I stand corrected. Would you come up please? Crookston: You have previously been sworn just state your name please. Cook: My name is John Cook, I wish to basically also testify to the character of my client. I have put together a number of large care facilities in the Treasure Valley area and we have gone through extra exerted effort to meet a design criteria that satisfies the community as well as the Commission and it's my pleasure to represent Susan Ehteshami and this project. I concur with the way here neighbors feel. Meridian does need a larger full care facility. Thank you. Corrie: Okay, I believe Mr. Bentley has a question for you. Bentley: Mr. Cook, I wanted to ask you about your signage, what you propose. Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 30 Cook: Right now we have got a free standing monument sign and we have an illustration on our site plan. The Commission has asked us to reduce the scale of the signage and in our amended plan we reduced it down by about a third of what we had proposed before which would be a sign that would be four feet high, seven foot long and that includes the graphic caricature of a castle motif to go along with the signage and the words that are up there. We're looking at a five- foot high as far as the scale of the sign to the building, it'll be probably in proportion as far as what we're looking at as far as the sign we really don't know what kind of other signs may be developed in the total property parcel and as Susan has testified if there needs to be an amendment to the signage we'll address that. Bentley: Okay, and I probably should have asked her this but maybe you know, do you know how many provider's they're going to have if the thing is filled to capacity? Cook: My experience in child care facilities they have to go for a license (inaudible) at the state and usually it's a two-thirds occupancy and that allows for a few drop ins on an intermittent basis, that's been my experience. Bentley: Okay, thank you. Anderson: I have a question. I was reading the landscape schedule here and along those adjacent properties where we're concerned about the noise levels and that, it states in here that you have three -gallon size, is that correct? Cook: They shouldn't be, they should be three-inch caliper. Anderson: Oh three-inch caliper. How tall would these trees be when they're originally planted? Cook: Originally planted they would probably be in the height of ten -feet and it would mature to a 30 -foot canopy, 20 to 30 -foot diameter, and that's usually an eight to ten year growth period. Anderson: Okay, thank you. Corrie: Any further questions? Thank you. I will close the public hearing at this point and entertain discussion from council. Bentley: Mr. Mayor, I would like to hear comments from staff on this. Corrie: Okay, Mr. Smith? Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 31 Smith: Mr. Mayor and Council, I think the only comment that I would make concerns the sewer connection and as my assistant Bruce Freckleton mentioned there is no sewer in Franklin Road at this time. It is to be constructed as part of the re -construction of Franklin Road, it's included in that contract if and when that happens but right now there is no sewer available on Franklin Road, water does exist on the north side of Franklin Road at this point and sewer exists inside the subdivision to the west of this site and to the east in the Franklin Square Subdivision but there isn't anything in Franklin Road. I have been in contact with an engineer, Briggs Engineering, they called me about this providing both sewer and water sub outs to the property at specific locations and I corresponded with them saying that yes we could accommodate whatever they want wherever they want it placed and I think that Mr. Wolfe was — I think his name was used in my correspondence with Briggs Engineering on that issue. Bentley: And the capacity for that line, would it support this? Smith: Yes, it's not a problem there. Bowers: Mayor and Council, we don't have any problem with it at this time as long as all the codes are met and possibly Councilman Ron Anderson could help me, I received a letter today from the State Fire Marshall and I have not got to read it yet but it talks about new ratios of staff to children and could you talk on that Ron at all? Anderson: I haven't seen the letter yet, no. Bowers: Okay, I just received it today and I didn't go through it so there's a new ration coming out in June or July on staff to children. Rountree: I guess I would direct this to City Clerk Berg, we have a -- (end of tape) -- anyway, we have a larger facility on Fairview. As I recall one of the issues that came before Council was noise and the proximity to the neighborhood, I believe it was granted a conditional use permit, to my knowledge I've never heard any complaints related to the activities that are going on there either you or Gary or even the Mayor. Berg: I have not received any written complaints of that or even verbal ones that I know of and that is a conditional use and it would be reviewed annually if there were any complaints unless Shari has gotten any from the Planning and Zoning Administration. Rountree: Okay, thank you. Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 32 Corrie: Further discussion? Hearing none. What is the Council's pleasure on the conditional use permit for a child care facility at 875 W. Franklin Road? Counselor? Crookston: I think that there has been a fair amount of additional testimony and the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law need to be amended to incorporate what has been testified to. Corrie: Council? Rountree: Mr. Mayor, I have no objections to the testimony being included into the Findings, I think they should, there's considerable more testimony particularly supportive in terms of the decision, the recommendation with the revised Findings and Facts. My preference would be to indicate to acceptability with the new revised site plan any efforts on the part of the applicant to address the issues that have been brought up. Corrie: Any further discussion? I'll entertain a motion then. Rountree: Mr. Mayor I would move that we have counsel redraft the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for the conditional use permit request for the new child care facility at 875 W. Franklin. Bird: Second it. Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Rountree second by Mr. Bird that we have new Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for the conditional use permit for a child care facility at 875 W. Franklin Road. Any further discussion? All those in favor of the motion say aye. MOTION CARRIED: All aye. Corrie: Counselor if you'll draw up those new findings and we'll Crookston: -- Two more weeks Corrie: Next meeting. What they're doing, they're adding the testimony tonight to the new facts and — Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law and then we'll bring it back the next meeting and we'll vote on it so we just want to add the new testimony that was given here tonight to this. No more public hearings we'll add the testimony tonight to that. Bentley: Mr. Mayor, I move we take a ten-minute break. Rountree: Second. Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 33 Corrie: We'll have a ten-minute break. -- Okay the Council is all back in their seats and hands folded so I'll call the meeting to order. Sorry, I talked to a third grade class today and it was just come natural that they had to be quiet and fold their hands and listen to me. ITEM #10: PUBLIC HEARING: PRELIMINARY PLAT FOR ENGLEWOOD CREEK ESTATES SUBDIVISION NO. 2 BY ENGLEWOOD DEVELOPMENT CORP. — WEST OF TEN MILE ROAD AND 1/4 MILE SOUTH OF USTICK ROAD: Corrie: At this time I'll open the public hearing on item #10 and invite the persons with Englewood Creek Subdivision to step forward. Crookston: Would you state your name and address please. Tomlinson: My name is Richard Tomlinson, I work at Hubble Engineering, 9550 Bethel Court in Boise, Idaho. Crookston: Do you promise, swear of affirm that the testimony you give tonight at this public hearing be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you? Tomlinson: Yes. Crookston: Please proceed. Tomlinson: Thanks. Just to kind of start off with Mr. Mayor and Council members, this Englewood Creek Estates Subdivision No. 2, it's the second phase of a subdivision that was originally preliminary platted in 1993, the development I think has changed hands a couple times and I'm here on behalf of the current developers, Englewood Creek Development Corp., and because the preliminary plat had expired they are reapplying for a preliminary plat and not a lot of things have changed from the original one that was approved some years ago, there's been a little layout change but it's been basically dictated by the surrounding areas that have developed since the original preliminary plat had been taken so it's met all the conditions needed for development. I received the general comments and site specific comments from Bruce Freckleton and the Public Works Department and have addressed those in a letter to you all and also have agreed with all the comments, there was one that we touched on during the Planning and Zoning Commission about needing a 20 -foot wide common lot for the sewer line from the south. There's an undeveloped phase of the Lakes at Cherry Lane, I believe is the kind of townhouse area on the east end of the Lakes at Cherry Lane, the sewer that comes through there, I'd spoken with Bruce Freckleton and I think he talked with Gary and we've kind of worked out Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 34 that we would have a twenty foot easement there as opposed to a common lot. The easement would be completely on one lot so there wouldn't be a fence down the middle of the easement to get access to the line or any maintenance that would need to be done on that. We would like to do this in lieu of a separate common lot because the lot wouldn't go anywhere except to the backyard of — well not the backyard but the common area of the townhouses that'll be developed sometime on the south. Other than that, have you received the letter that I sent to you last week addressing the comments from the Public Works Dept. and staff? If you have any questions I am available. Corrie: Questions, Council? Bentley: I have none at this time. :IToMIITVVX1L7it-3 Corrie: Alright, thank you. Anyone else from the public that would like to issue testimony in this preliminary plat public hearing? Hearing none I'll close the public hearing. Questions from Council, staff? Rountree: Comment from Gary. Smith: Mayor and Council, we don't have any problems with their responses to our comments and Rich has related the information on the sewer easement as Bruce Freckleton related it to me, it's a relatively short length of line that's accessible from both ends with a manhole, the common lot didn't make any sense because it wasn't going anywhere other than it was dumping into another common lot that belongs to that subdivision to the south so it wasn't really serving any purpose and it would probably create a problem for the adjacent lots so we felt that in this case an easement was most appropriate. I think that was the only issue really on our comments and that has been resolved, thank you. Corrie: Any further comments? Rountree: Mr. Mayor, I make a motion that we approve the preliminary plat for the Englewood Creek Sub. No. 2 subject to staff comments. Bird: Second. Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Rountree second by Mr. Bird that we accept the preliminary plat subject to conditions of staff. Any further comment, discussion? All those in favor of the motion say aye. MOTION CARRIED: All aye. Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 35 ITEM # 11: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST TO LIFT REQUIREMENTS IMPOSED REGARDING EXISTING WELL LOCATED IN SALMON RAPIDS NO. 4 BY FARWEST DEVELOPERS — SOUTH LOCUST GROVE BETWEEN OVERLAND AND VICTORY: Corrie: At this time I'll open the public hearing on item #11 and invite the attorney to start. Crookston: Would you state your name and address please. McCall: My name is Brian McCall, my address is 420 W. Washington, Boise. Crookston: Do you promise, swear or affirm that the testimony you give tonight will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you? McCall: I do. Crookston: Please proceed. McCall: Thank you. Mayor and Council, the agenda item is a bit of a misnomer, this is a request by my client, Farwest Developers to modify and/or clarify a particular portion of the Findings of Fact that were passed by the City in February of 1996 with respect to the phase of Salmon Rapids Subdivision that was then known as Salmon Rapids No. 3, those who are Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law with respect to the annexation and the rezoning of what was then the balance of the Salmon Rapids project. Just briefly, Salmon Rapids together with Los Alamitos Subdivision are subdivisions somewhere short of 300 single family lots. The pressurized irrigation system that serves both of those subdivisions has two sources of water, there is a well located in the Salmon Rapids property and there is surface water comes out of Hunters Lateral it goes to a pumping station, actually there was some testimony on it tonight on the Los Alamitos property, it's a closed system, there's both of those sources of water then serve as — those all stages of both of those subdivisions and Raven Hill Subdivision. When Salmon Rapids was originally developed and Los Alamitos, the well was approved to be sufficient enough water for Salmon Rapids No. 1, Los Alamitos No. 1, and a very small stage of Los Alamitos No. 2. When the developer came to request annexation and zoning for Salmon Rapids No. 3 the public hearing was in August 15, 1995, at that public hearing there was testimony from an individual neighboring property owner that he had concern about the impact on his well and some other neighbor wells, hypothetically, of the use of the well on Salmon Rapids. That created a great deal of inquiry by the City Council at that point and time, they instructed the City Engineer to inquire with Water Resources at to whether or not the City had any liability in this area and the upshot of it was to ultimately pass those Finding of Fact that we referred to in February of 1996 and a portion of those Findings required that the developer monitor this well and Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 36 neighboring wells. The particular language that went in there, it's not clear that there was any public testimony on it and it's not really clear where the source of it came from but nonetheless the portion that we seek tonight to modify is the portion that is found on page fifteen and I'll just read it and then I'll tell you what we'd like it modified to. "That the monitoring shall be performed bi-weekly during the months of April, May, June, July, August, September and October and that the applicant shall approach two adjacent landowners if possible to obtain permission to monitor their wells on the same bi-weekly schedule" and then down a little bit further "that this monitoring of the well shall go on until the well's are no longer used for pressurized irrigation and shall also be addressed in the development agreement that the applicant shall annually provide the well monitoring information to the State of Idaho Department of Water Resources and have it determine if possible the impacts on the ground water of applicant's use of well water for pressurized irrigation." Now what happened next was the City Engineer requested or retained a hydrologist to give the City some sort of guidance on how to implement this well monitoring and you have before you Mr. Edward Squire's, the hydrologist's report. The City Engineer, Gary Smith had retained him and asked him to issue his report. In his report, and you have it on page three, he recommended a slightly different monitoring schedule and I quote from that, "We recommend monthly monitoring of water level, total production and discharge rate if pumping for the Goldsmith, Babbitt and Shipley wells over the course of the year so that the seasonal groundwater fluctuation can be quantified and separated from possible interference affects and to establish baseline water levels for the monitoring wells. Once the data has been accumulated for a year monitoring frequency of the observation wells could be relaxed to one or two measurements per year. The Goldsmith well should be measured monthly through the winter non -pumping season for the first year (1996) a particular importance are the pre -irrigation season measurement taken in early March and the end of season pumping water level measured in early November for subsequent years only the early March and early November measurements should be necessary with no winter measurements." Now the difficulty is and I was before the Council back in January, I think it's the policy of this Council to have developers turn over to the appropriate irrigation district, in this case Nampa -Meridian Irrigation District, the pressurized irrigation system. We have been trying to turn over this system to Nampa -Meridian for the better part of a year. I'm not going to represent to the Council that this is the only problem but everything seems to be pretty much go now, they have a few items on their punch list but they refused to take this well because they don't like the open ended well monitoring verbiage if you will in the existing Findings of Fact. I came before the Council before and sort of suggested that based upon this hydrologist's report who says that there should not be any interference from this well on other wells number one and based upon the Department of Water Resources' response to the City Engineer saying that they didn't feel it was appropriate for, that it was the proper jurisdiction for a city to get into water competing disputes. I had come before the Council and suggested that we lift Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 37 these in their entirety. The Council I believe was somewhat sympathetic because you know we need to get these things moved around so that we can get the water system over to Nampa -Meridian but indicated to me that because these Findings were the result of public testimony at a public hearing we should come back at a public hearing, in the meantime and so that's why we're here tonight, but in the meantime I have met with Nampa -Meridian and Nampa - Meridian has indicated that if the well monitoring language in the Findings of Fact are modified or amended to have them replaced with Mr. Squire's recommendation with the further caveat that they have a five year sunset clause, they would then be comfortable taking over this well. Now, do we care whether the well is taken over? The pumping station that utilizes surface water that's over in Los Alamitos was designed with enough capacity to do all of Los Alamitos, all of Salmon Rapids, all of Raven Hill, so there is more than enough capacity there and that we have sufficient water rights so the developer in one sense really doesn't care and the developer wants to get it over to Nampa - Meridian and they can just cap off the Salmon Rapids well but the City Engineer has indicated that that would be a substantial waste of a water source. This particular subdivision like a lot of them has as a secondary source city water so that when the water goes out of the ditches for surface water that homeowners have available to them city water but they wouldn't have to use city water if we could keep this well in production because it is a secondary source and it would be a source that there would be water there and historically always has been water there as best I know, nobody has reported otherwise, both before the season and after the season so it was at the City Engineer's instance that we moved ahead with this request by way of public hearing to modify the Findings of Fact in the February 6, 1996 hearing to be amended to incorporate in their place the recommendations of Mr. Squires as I've read into the record. Thank you. Corrie: Any questions Council at the present time? Bentley: You say that this serves all of Salmon Rapids and Los Alamitos? McCall: Well right now there's the well and then there's the pumping station, if you cap the well the surface water that's already in Los Alamitos and the pumping station that Farwest Developers put in has the capacity to service both subdivisions and in fact, should service both subdivisions exclusively during the irrigation season because the water right associated with the well is -- from the Department of Water Resources — has a condition on it that it be utilized only in years where there's insufficient water or only as a backup so it would be actually a fairly nice fit to utilize this well primarily under — consistent with the license from Department of Water Resources, consistent with their restrictions. Bentley: But is the entire pressurized system in and functional? Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 38 McCall: Yes, the entire system is in and it is looped, in other words there is a valve that goes from Salmon Rapids across Locust Grove to Los Alamitos so you can screw that off — I mean you could isolate it if you wanted to, that's probably not answering your question. Bentley: It seems to me and Gary you might have to help me with this, we have a problem with one of these subdivisions of Mr. Goldsmith's where it's not hooked up. Smith: Mayor and Council and Councilman Bentley, I think there are some problems existing with the Los Alamitos and the Salmon Rapids pressure irrigation system as of today, I'm not sure what they are, I don't know that they're major, I think there are issues that Nampa -Meridian needs to have addressed before they will sign off on the system and totally accept it, that's what Alan Chandler has been working on from the Raven Hills development on his subdivision in terms of the distribution system I think that the pump station as Brian has stated that serves all three subdivisions is functional, is operation, the things that need to be corrected in Los Alamitos, the last phase of Los Alamitos and the last phase of Salmon Rapids, I don't know what they are, typically I think what they amount to in most any subdivision is leakage and pipes, height of risers for homeowners to connect to, detail type stuff. McCall: This is somewhat hearsay but Mr. Goldsmith's right hand assistant Kim, I spoke with her yesterday and that's why I say there is a punch list that we're working through with Nampa -Meridian Irrigation, I asked her "A" what that was, "B" when she thought it was going to be resolved. The punch list as I understand it and I don't have any direct knowledge of this, is that in Salmon Rapids No. 4 on some of those lots that have — that are still in the development stage, the risers that indicate where the stub out if you will to the system have been buried. Nampa -Meridian won't take it until we go find them, locate them, there is a portion of the line in Salmon Rapids that is and I don't know whether we're talking main line or some sort of lateral that is uncovered and needs to be appropriately buried and she also spoke of there have been some leaks but as Gary says that's in the distribution system, Mr. Chandler put in the pumping station, it has the capacity obviously if there's a weak chain and there's a leak somewhere it probably upsets the whole thing but I'm not sure that — that may be another issue that we may need to address but it's not particularly on point with respect to the monitoring requirements in the well. Bentley: Thank you. Rountree: You indicated that the well would be operated per either the permit or the guidance or certification or whatever by Water Resources, is the well identified for a certain capacity and that capacity would not be exceeded is that what I understand from that comment? Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 39 McCall: Yes, it is. There are actually three different water permits. The original permit dates back to sometime in the early fifties and it was a permit for then 23 - acres that didn't speak to residential lots. When Mr. Goldsmith started this development he applied to Water Resources to have that water right transferred across the street so that water from the well could be sprinkled on lawns and Los Alamitos. That's the second water right and that covered only Salmon Rapids No. 1, Los Alamitos No. 1, and I believe under twenty lots in Los Alamitos No. 2, then as development progressed and we added a whole bunch more lots in Los Alamitos and Los Alamitos the rest of No. 2 and No. 3 and Salmon Rapids now No. 4, we went back to the department of Water Resources and they substantially expanded the water right in terms of their measurement and I believe the original 1953 water right was at .46 CFS, they added an additional 1.5 CFS's so we actually think that we've got enough water out of that well that during the non -irrigation system all three of those subdivisions probably would not have to use any city water and I think that's the City Engineer's interest in this. Smith: Yes. Rountree: So you're close to 2 CFS with that expanded water right. McCall: That's exactly right, translated into acres it would be 75 plus 23 -acres, translated into lots, although the first water right was not stated in lots we've used their formula and I know that Gary disagrees with us on this but under their formula it comes up to 306 lots and with the — I'm not going to get into the lot issue because I'm not absolutely certain on this. A lot of lots. Rountree: So you have a water right that's substantiated by Water Resources to use that water anyway. McCall: That's correct. Yeah, the only question — yeah we can use it, we've sort of like to use it and I think it makes sense to use it but Nampa -Meridian who knows all about water running in ditches and doesn't know very much about water in wells, when we sat down to discuss the fine print of turning this thing over I opened my big mouth and said that there are some restrictions attached to this as imposed by the Meridian City Council back in February of 1996 and they said oh, what's that? and then I read them and they said oh, we've got to sign on to monitor Mr. Babbitt's well for the rest of history, we won't take it with those restrictions and I said well actually the hydrologist says that it's not necessary so I'll go in front of the Council and see if we can get it changed. Rountree: Thank you. Corrie: Is there anyone else who would like to issue testimony? Mr. Shipley? Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 40 Crookston: Would you state your name and address please. Shipley: John Shipley, 2770 S. Locust Grove, Meridian, Idaho. Crookston: Do you promise, swear or affirm that the testimony you give tonight at this public hearing will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you? Shipley: I do. Crookston: Please proceed. Shipley: Let's see where will I begin at. He told you about the original allotment for the well, I'm going to tell you about the end of the draught which was six years ago, about six years ago we had the end of the draught when we stopped the irrigation water on the 15th of July and that 23 -acres up there was being watered one early day in October and I couldn't get a shower that morning, we'd been out of water most all summer from the 15th of July so the surface water that goes back on the ground does have an affect. Jerry McDermott owned that land over there, that well I think it was put in in 1953 or 1957 or something like that just to irrigate that hill up there because they were going to have to pump water out of the ditch uphill anyway and I went over and I said I need some water to drink I'm (inaudible) in my faucet and I've got to get the well guy out, he says I wonder if my well's doing that, I've been pumping that sucker for two or three days longer than I really needed to so he went up and turned the pump off and by that afternoon I had water back in my well and I never experienced another problem. Now that land out there is real funny, it's got layers in it you know and I suppose the water gets down in there eventually but a lot of our surface water just runs off into the nine mile drain or off onto the other side of my property there's a ditch that runs down there that goes back to the Nine Mile Drain but last summer the lightening hit my well and I had to have a new pump put in and I found out I only have a 45 -foot hole for my well and my pump was only sitting at about 23 -feet, I put it a little deeper than that, the new pump, so that could really — you know there's probably a lot of water down in the ground there but as we keep adding more houses and more subdivisions, they're putting another 43 -acres of houses in on my south side now and each footprint of each house that goes in there doesn't allow water to absorb into the ground anymore and the streets and the sewers you know, people that have lived out there for years that have a septic system and they pump water out of the ground they're actually it right back in the ground again so with more and more houses by the hundreds and the city well that goes 300 -feet deep or something like that and they're all pumping water into their houses and out into the sewer and it never goes back into the ground, eventually it's going to make an effect and the reason that you guys here in the City Council impose that monitoring situation was because Water Resources, Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 41 and check me if I'm not right, they said something to you guys to do that, you were hand and hand in talking to them at the time the last testimony was done on that. Now I've got — there's two wells on my property, one of them's the old 1897 well that hasn't been used for years but they can still monitor it without causing any trouble, they can go in there any time they want, I told them that, they were in and out of there last summer occasionally and dropped a thing down it and it's about 50 -foot away from my well. This well that we're talking about is probably 150 -yards away and sits up on the hill up there but it goes deep enough that it evidently has had some effect on mine. If they don't want to monitor that any more if they'd just put some kind of a bond forth if I've got to spend money on my well to — that you know, if it starts going dry that somebody else pays for re - putting the pump in there, I just put in another pump last year because the lightening got me so I'm just trying to protect my water right and if they're going to water a whole bunch of other houses you know and you'll go up there and you'll find it running out in the gutters and everywhere else because that's what it does when they sprinkle things. We just got to remember that what goes in the ground comes out and what comes out and it don't go back is — the hammer's going to fall somewhere along the line and that's why you people have put the monitoring on those wells but you know just to make sure that with all this addition and that isn't going to be all of Salmon Rapids or Los Alamitos fault when they're putting more houses in that used to add water too you know so it's a concern because I can't look into the ground like Superman and tell you what's going on down there I just know at one time I did have a problem and so that's why I'm here at the meeting tonight so you guys figure it out, if they don't want to monitor anymore maybe they can pay for putting a new well in on me that's deeper. Rountree: Mr. Mayor, I had a question for Mr. Shipley. I'm pretty sure you've told us this before but I just wanted to get my memory back. Your well just provides domestic water, you don't irrigate with that or do you have a garden or — Shipley: No, it might water the flower patch, the roses in the front of the house and it goes out to the stock water where the cattle drink. There's two outside spigots and the rest of it goes in the house. Rountree: And then you irrigate with surface water? Shipley: I irrigate with surface water, front lawn, everything irrigated with surface water, the whole place, anything, any other questions? Rountree: That's all I had. Corrie: Anyone else wish to issue testimony here tonight? Crookston: Would you state your name and address please. Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 42 Inmen: Chad Inmen, 2634 South Weber Rapids Place, Salmon Rapids Subdivision, Meridian. Crookston: Do you promise, swear or affirm that the testimony you give here tonight will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you? Inmen: Yes. Crookston: Please proceed. Inmen: I just want to let you know that I do live in that subdivision and I have paid Nampa -Meridian Irrigation District, I don't know where it is as far as who controls it, I know I paid them and I've had questions about my water not being turned on at the beginning of the summer when there is irrigation water in the ditch and I called them and they said that they couldn't get any answers to me that it was — I was paying them but they still had control so I just want to make sure I get water you know, the city water, I don't want to take the city water, it's a lot more expensive to water my lawn and wash my cars and I do feel for Mr. Shipley though and I grew up on a well and I know how that goes so if we can get water from Los Alamitos in that pumping station over there during the — when they're irrigating, when the irrigation water is in the irrigation ditch I feel that would be fine it just comes down to just a few dollars for all those people that want to wash their car if they want to or water their lawns in that time of the season. Anderson: Are you getting water now? Inmen: Yes. Corrie: Okay, anyone else wish to issue testimony here? Do you have any back-up, follow up that you would like to do, any questions they haven't answered? Anderson: Mr. Shipley is obviously correct that there's more and more development that there's greater pressure on a limited resource. His well has a defined water right with the Department of Water Resources, this well has a defined water right, when the city wrote to the Department of Water Resources and asked them a few questions one question was precisely that, what happens if there is an interference from one well to the other and the department wrote back, it's in your files, and said that there is a procedure for resolving these issues, that there is a whole history of water law based upon priority first and right, first and time, based upon other ways of perfecting your water right and the second question was from the City to the Department of Water Resources does the — should the City be involved in this and the response was approval of appropriation and use of a source of water for irrigation purposes is normally the Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 43 responsibility of the Department of Water Resources not of municipality. I'm not aware of a role for the municipality in a well interference matter so — and there was a draught year and we were all here and I'm sure that impacted everybody's use. This water right has been granted to Salmon Rapids, it has restrictions on it, it has quite frankly restrictions on it that probably better protect Mr. Shipley than do the well monitoring, the restrictions being specifically that it requires the user to utilize surface water that may be available first and then only go the well water. The issues that Mr. Shipley raises I think go way, way back to the fundamental issue of whether or not there should be any restrictions by this City Council on this well and I think we've sort of passed that issue before us tonight is the monitoring and Nampa -Meridian has said that they would prefer that the monitoring requirement be as found by the hydrologist and the hydrologist talks about looking at it at the beginning of the season and at the end of the season, they talk about a different frequency and I think at this point we probably should defer to their expertise. Thank you. Corrie: Okay at this time I'll close the public hearing and have comments from Council, questions? Rountree: Mr. Mayor, I have a question for Gary Smith. Do you have anymore to add to this particular item, I think we all know quite a bit about it or at least I remember quite a bit about it. Smith: Mayor and Council, Councilman Rountree, I don't think I have anything to add, any facts to add that Brian McCall hasn't given you. As he said my interest is that we utilize the shallower ground water that this well is pumping for sprinkling purposes in lieu of the deeper ground water that we're pumping in well #17 to supply drinking, for drinking purposes and that's always been my concern that we — and I think Council and the Mayor's concern too for a number of years has been to utilize the upper aquifers and our surface water for irrigation purposes and I didn't — since Nampa -Meridian is involved in taking the system for the three subdivisions, operating and maintaining it and this well is an intrical part of that system then that was my interest too was to see that that well went along with the rest of the system for Nampa -Meridian's operation and ownership. Corrie: Gary one question, how deep is our #17 well? Smith: Mayor, I think that it's around 700 -feet, something like that. Corrie: Thank you. Smith: You're welcome. And by the way just as a side light, on our well construction recommendations of Ed Squire, our hydrologist consultant, we have been kind of pioneering standards for well construction through IDWR as far as sealing the hole so that we don't get down hole contamination from upper Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 44 aquifers that are more susceptible to surface contamination and I'm not saying that the lower aquifers are being contaminated because there are some deeper drill holes that weren't sealed very well but we're going to extra expense to see that we don't get that kind of contamination coming down hole and that we seal ourselves off from well interference or interfering with adjacent wells pumping from higher levels. So we're trying to make that extra effort on our production wells. Corrie: Council, which way would you like to go on this? Rountree: Mr. Mayor I more that we have counsel prepare Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law, actually the request to modify the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law as it relates to monitoring of the well for Salmon Rapids No. 4. Bentley: Second. Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Rountree second by Mr. Bentley on the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law to be drawn up for the modification and clarifying of the well monitoring. Any further discussion? All those in favor of the motion say aye. MOTION CARRIED: All aye. ITEM #12: PUBLIC HEARING: AMENDMENTS TO ZONING AND SUBDIVISION AND DEVELOPMENT ORDINANCES: Corrie: This was a request, is there anyone here that would — let's do it this way, I'll open the public hearing now for amendments to zoning and subdivision development ordinances. Is there anyone here who would like to issue testimony on that at this time? I would recommend to the Council that we continue this public hearing until Shari Stiles is back the next meeting — (end of tape) — and I know Mr. Rountree has questions as well and I'm sure you others do — Bentley: -- Mr. Mayor, I move we continue the public hearing on the amendments to zoning and subdivision development ordinances until the meeting of the 19th Rountree: Second. Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bentley second by Mr. Rountree to continue the public hearing until the May 19th meeting, any further discussion? Hearing none. All those in favor say aye. MOTION CARRIED: All aye. Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 45 ITEM #13: REQUEST FOR TIME EXTENSION FOR SPARKLING SPRINGS SUBDIVISION PRELIMINARY PLAT BY PACIFIC LAND SURVEYORS: Corrie: Is a member of Pacific Land Surveyors here this evening? We have a letter I guess requesting this plat will expire April the 1 st, Gary do you have any comments on this one? Smith: No, I don't Mayor. Shari didn't brief me at all — she didn't give me any information on this particular item. It sounded like it was kind of a — well I guess shouldn't even comment on it because she just didn't go into it very deeply. Corrie: Councilman Anderson has a good point, it expired a month after the letter came out so I guess I'll let Council decide which way they want to run with this. Bird: Mr. Mayor do they have a grace period? Corrie: There is no grace period, I mean you can give them a time extension on this project, it looks like they're going to have within the next two or three months develop the plans and final plat but nobody's here to testify to that so I guess we have not had an extension yet so they can have one according to the ordinance. Rountree: Yeah, we typically would extend the request up to a year, one time. Corrie: That's correct. Rountree: As near as I can tell they're asking for two months but who knows. guess to save having it on the agenda this time or getting it off the agenda we could either deny the request or grant them an extension of six months and no more or table it. Corrie: Gary who is the developer on this one do you know? Smith: Mayor, I noticed on this evaluation sheet from Ada County, the street names committee, that they have Carey Homes listed as the developer, that was in September of 1997 when that evaluation sheet came out. Corrie: It looks like you have a couple of choices, you can table it or you can an extension. Bentley: Mr. Mayor, I move that we extend the preliminary plat submission date for Sparkling Springs to six months after the — is it April 1St it expires? Extend it six months? tn Corrie: October the 6. Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 46 Bentley: October 1 st Corrie: October 1 st, okay. Bentley: October 1, 1998. Bird: Second. Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bentley second by Mr. Bird the request for time extension be extended to October the first, six months, October 1, 1998. Any further discussion? Hearing none. All those in favor of the motion say aye. MOTION CARRIED: All aye. ITEM #14: WATER/SEWER/TRASH DELINQUENCIES: Corrie: This is to inform you by writing if you choose to to have the right to a predetermined hearing at 7:30 p.m. Tuesday, May 5, 1998 before the Mayor and the City Council to appear in person to be judged on the facts and defend the claim made against the City that your water, sewer, and trash bill is delinquent. You may retain counsel, this service will be discontinued on May 13, 1998 unless payment is received in full. Is there anyone present who would wish to contest their water, sewer, trash delinquency? Big smile, I guess not. You're hereby informed that they may appear to have their decision of the City Council or City reviewed by the Fourth Judicial District Court pursuant to Idaho Code even though they appeal their water will be shut off, the amount of the turn-off list is $20,707.34. I'll entertain a motion for the acceptance of the delinquency and turn-off schedule for April 15, 1998. Rountree: Mr. Mayor I move that we accept the turn-off and delinquency report for this past month. Anderson: Second. Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Rountree second by Mr. Anderson to approve the delinquency and turn-off schedule for April 15, 1998. Any further discussion? All those in favor of the motion say aye. MOTION CARRIED: All aye. ITEM #15: APPROVE BILLS: Anderson: Mr. Mayor, I make a motion we approve the bills. Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 47 Bird: Second. Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Anderson second by Mr. Bird that we approve the bills. All those in favor say aye. MOTION CARRIED: All aye. ITEM #16: DEPARTMENT REPORTS: Smith: Mayor and Council, I've just got a couple of them. One is the — I talked to you by telephone on the agreement for the remodel at the Wastewater Plant and I'd just like to get that formally accepted by you folks tonight. That was, to refresh your memory that was to Ellsworth Kincaid Construction Company for remodel of a shower room facility at the Wastewater Plant the old control building and I think it was an answer to your question Ron on a facility for our female employee out there, there is a shower facility in the new administration building for her, for the female employees which she is — we have one female operator and then Celeste, she's a pre-treatment person and Audi is the receptionist so there's three females there but they have a shower facility in the new building, this would be a shower facility in the old control building for the men. Corrie: Okay we'll take that item number "A", do I hear a motion? Bird: Mr. Mayor, I make a motion that we accept this contract with Ellsworth Kincaid Construction and for the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to attest, $13,305.00. Bentley: Second. Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bird second by Mr. Bentley to approve the Wastewater Treatment Plant's operations billing remodel agreement in the amount of $13,305.00. Any further discussion? All those in favor say aye. MOTION CARRIED: All aye. Smith: Thank you. The second item is a two party agreement between the City of Meridian and ACHD concerning the improvements that we're going to make for the parking lot and drainage system at the north end of northwest 8th Street where our Water Department is located and our little pocket park up there that we refer to as the 8th Street Park. For years we have had water, storm water, from 8th Street, from Delmar, from Willowbrook, all running into the parking area for the park or the entrance for the what's now the Water Department and the water continues to run north and it floods the back lawns of some residences along there and I don't know why they haven't complained but they never have Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 48 apparently, anyway with our position down there now with the Water Department and trying to improve the parking area for the park the storm drainage needs to be taken care of and we've put together a project, had the engineering done for it and it's actually out for bid right now for construction, that would improve that parking area, it would improve the storm drainage facility or take care of the storm drainage off the public streets and the park area or the parking lot area for the park, it would also take care of some of our drainage areas behind the Water Department building itself and the Highway District has agreed to pay for a share of this cost that has to do with taking the water from the public right-of-way. Wayne has had an opportunity to review this agreement and he had some questions that I got from him this afternoon, what his concern entailed was the insertion of how much the Highway District is going to pay of the cost, the percentage, that was omitted from this two party agreement, we'll put that in so that it's at least spelled out as to what the percentage of the cost will be at this point we don't know what that cost will be until after the bids are received. We have an estimate of cost but that's all. So I don't know whether you want to wait until this two party agreement is completed to Wayne's satisfaction or how you want to proceed. I think the majority of the language in it is pretty typical of their two party agreements and we had signed a couple in the past, one with Meridian Road improvements, we've signed one for Franklin Road improvements which is to be done in the future and they've used that as their model and revised it to fit this project but definitely the percentage of the cost needs to be inserted into the body of this thing and it's by the way 48% Highway District I think it was and 52% City on the portion dealing with the public right-of-way drainage. Bird: Is that the agreed percent Gary? Smith: Yes, they have agreed to that, we have a letter from ACHD that they've agreed to that percentage so it just needs to be added into the agreement. Bird: Mr. Mayor, I make a motion that we enter into this two party agreement, the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to attest with an addition of a 48% Ada County Highway District and 52% paid by the City of Meridian. Bentley: Second. Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bird second by Mr. Bentley to agree to the two party agreement for north west 8t" Street parking lot and drainage system with the addition of the percentage of 48% for ACHD and 52% cost to the City. Any further discussion? Hearing none. All those in favor of the motion say aye. MOTION CARRIED: All aye. Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 49 Smith: Thank you Mayor and Council. Last item I have is just an information item, we received some bids back on the Cherry Lane fence project and I'll pass out the results of that bid. Do you want this entered into the record or not? Corrie: Are we going to have John continue talking to the people and see what they want to do or are we going to cancel it or what? Crookston: Well the City has the right to increase the contract on the LID by 20%, that's totally up to the City Council. Corrie: That still put us out of the bid too much? Crookston: I think the initial amount was $49,000.00. Corrie: And 20% would make it — Bird: It would be $9,800.00 or 10,000.00 so you've got one bid here that you could (inaudible) as I understood it we hadn't budgeted for that $49,000.00 even have we? Corrie: Nope. Bird: Well how are we going to come up with that? Smith: Mayor, in answer to your question I believe John Prior said he was going to contact the property owners and talk to them one by one and see what they wanted to do. I don't know if he's aware — is he aware Wayne of this 20% allowance? Crookston: Yes, he is. Smith: Okay. Corrie: So I believe that before we discussed this about paying for it we were going to have to bite the bullet and pay for it and then get the money back, we went backasswards here on that but I guess that's how you learn. Smith: Yeah right, and I just wanted you to know what the results of this bid opening were and subject to what kind of response John Prior gets in his conversations with the property owners. Rountree: It was my understanding that the homeowners had come to a consensus that and that's why this is bid this way, a A & B schedule, that if it exceeded the LID amount they would forego the landscaping treatment but did want to proceed with the fence if it was within that limitation so it looks like we Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 50 have a fence, we don't have landscape rock and weed protection or weed fabric but it seems to me that we need to have John either reconnect with those folks and make sure that that's what to do and if that's the case let's proceed with the fence and get that done. That fence out there is falling down. Corrie: Yeah and it's going to look like the devil if everybody has their own fence designed. It's going to be a -- I agree with Charlie it's going to look terrible. Bird: The only problem is Charlie if we leave out some of this stuff isn't that going to kind of look bad? Rountree: If you put the staining and gates and I assume that's fence staining and appropriate gates you're still well within that $49,000.00 that you've got to — in the low bid you've got $23,000.00 that's landscaping only and fabric and rock so that doesn't have any impact on the fence. Bird: You take your landscape rocks out, that weed fabric I'd like to see left in there if at all possible and you take out the landscape rocks then that $57,000.00 you're down into your $49,000.00 — Bentley: -- But you don't have the rocks to hold the fabric down. Bird: Yeah, that's true. Bentley: Well the sun will ruin it. Rountree: It's got to be covered or it rots. Corrie: I think Charlie's got a good idea there at least make it known to them that they got a fence staining of the gates anyway — Rountree: Mr. Mayor I would make that official by making a motion that the neighborhood group be contacted, be advised of the bid results if advancing the fence is acceptable to them that we instruct the contractor to proceed with the construction of the fence including the staining and the appropriate gates and defer the landscaping portion of schedule B from the contract. Bentley: Second. Corrie: Motion has been made by Mr. Rountree second by Mr. Bentley to go ahead with the cedar fencing, the steel post, the staining and gates and hold the fabric and rock possibly indefinitely on the motion and that would be to the low bidder, Roberts & Son Fence. Further discussion? All those in favor of the motion say aye. Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 51 MOTION CARRIED: All aye. Smith: Mr. Mayor, clarification is the contact to be John Prior, is he to contact — Corrie: I think he's talked to the property owners. Bentley: Unless you want the irritation. Smith: No thanks, I think he's doing fine, I guess, at least they're not calling my office. Corrie: They're calling me but I'll let him do it that's for sure. Smith: We had a bid opening today for a vehicle storage building at the Water Department, we received no bids so we will select a contractor on that basis then to do the work. I just wanted to let you know that we had six plan holders and nobody submitted a bid. Bird: Was there a reason Gary? Smith: I — by the time I got myself gathered up I haven't called anybody to find out why we didn't get a bid but — it was a simple straightforward project and we're estimating somewhere around twenty-five, twenty-six thousand — Rountree: No profit. Smith: Possibly, but I keep hearing people are really hungry for contract construction work so I don't know. Rountree: Yeah it doesn't make sense to me something simple like that. Smith: Thank you Mayor and Council. Corrie: Kenny, anything? Bowers: Yes Mayor and Council, we are having our open house this Saturday from noon till 4:00, we're going to be cooking hot dogs also handing out fire prevention and equipment so — red hats, so if you're available or through town stop in and see us, appreciate it. Also our one ton chassis came in today Twin Falls so we'll go pick that up Thursday and get it back here and start putting equipment on it and get it ready for the wild land season and we should if Will is willing be in our new office over here Monday so — if Will is willing. Corrie: Are you talking about a desk? He's willing, believe me he's willing. Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 52 Bowers: He's been under a lot of pressure lately so — Corrie: He's feeling like it's been salmon week, he's been swimming upstream. Bowers: Mayor and Council that's all, thank you. Corrie: Thank you Kenny. Do I see Tom Cruise over there? Kuntz: Just a couple of items. One is I was contacted by Eric Thierhouse on Friday of last week, he has been given an offer for one of the lots on the north side of Generations Plaza for a private individual to purchase it and turn it into private parking and he just was inquiring whether the City had any further interest in acquiring that "L" shaped piece of property that borders on the north and the east side. Bird: What price? Kuntz: The two lots together are $50,000.00. Corrie: What's the appraised value of that? Kuntz: It was appraised in 1994 at about $43,000.00. Rountree: Generations Plaza. I guess my question is not related to whether or not we want to buy it or not is that property subdivided to where they can sell a lot? Corrie: Well it seems as though our (inaudible) is not here, I don't know whether they can or not. Is that two lots? Rountree: I don't know. Corrie: I don't either, (inaudible) Smith: The lots are in the old parts of town — the lots are historically 25 to 30 -feet wide and 120 -feet deep with an alley in between and so I don't know the dimensions — the piece that we own is 60 -foot square so I think there's another 30 -foot lot to the — isn't' there a 30 -foot lot east of our piece? Rountree: Yes. Smith: Okay so that's a lot that would extend a 120 -feet to the north to the alley, what we bought was half of two lots, the south half of two lots, the north half of those two lots would still exist to the alley which would be another 60 -feet so the two end lots of that block of which we own the south half have already been cut, Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 53 split and I would suspect there's one full lot between our property and the building that is being remodeled at this point, 30 -foot wide lot by 120 -foot. Corrie: Is anybody wanting to buy that little east lot there then at this point? Kuntz: No sir. Corrie: And they think it's going to be a parking lot there, we don't know but they think it is. Kuntz: He's indicated to me that the individual wants to put a private parking lot in that 60 -foot strip. Corrie: Gary do we have from the EPA that that could be covered over without any problems or do we not? Smith: We can't get a written response to that question, the only way they'll respond is if a problem exists or if a person purchasing the property borrows the money through a lending institution that requires an investigation. Those are the only two ways that EPA or DEQ will respond to that question. Kuntz: Will's asking about the construction and power easement for the Generations Plaza and I talked to Wayne tonight and both those were mailed out today to Betty Thierhouse's attorney. Crookston: That's correct. Kuntz: So we don't have any of those secured at this point. Berg: I got a chance to talk to Mr. Thierhouse Friday afternoon when Tom wasn't here and he mentioned that about the construction easement that the only way that we'd have — they would sign a construction easement if we put their property back in the order in which it was before they started tearing up the ground which included re -paving and — Rountree: I think all that needs to be done on that site is it needs to be hosed off, the pavement underneath the dirt over there appears to be in pretty good condition at least when we were driving fence posts through it. I think if it was hosed off he'd be surprised at what he had. Berg: He could be but that's what he said was going to be for sure in the agreement that it was going to be put back, the pavement was going to be put back like it was originally when we demolished the building and I don't know what extent that is. Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 54 Bird: Holy cow, I don't know any company that can lay stuff like that, that stuff was beat up anyway. Corrie: We don't have an appraisal do we of that property over there yet? Kuntz: We have no appraisal other than I talked to a realtor with Meridian Real Estate downtown here, Rich Ellison, and he says we have about 7,100 square feet there and he said fifty to seventy thousand dollars would not be inappropriate in his opinion. Bentley: I tell you, I really don't want to see that park turned into a mess and I think that's where it's headed. I think we'd ought to take a look at purchasing the rest of the land and finish the thing off the way we discussed earlier and you know (inaudible) cars and junk and trash and everything else I think it's just going to detract from it. Corrie: He said he wants $50,000.00 for the whole thing? Kuntz: Correct. Corrie: That's the "L" shape, the whole deal? Kuntz: Right. Bird: Mr. Mayor, I'll tell you something, I think instead of worrying about purchasing anymore ground let's get the 60x60 going, we don't have — we've got the financing — let's get our Generations Plaza in, if we get that later we can landscape it but let's take and get the stupid thing in for once. Corrie: Well we've got a little problem with an easement right now. Kuntz: Well Brad's working on the bid package right now so it's moving — the project's moving ahead — Bird: I was going to say we've got a bid package out or something, we've shoved some things around, in fact if that pathway comes through we're going to really be scrambling in the budget, let's get to what we've got drawn, it's a beautiful little plaza over there that's going to be very nice and let's get it out and get that thing build and if we get the other land it'll be great but we couldn't afford to develop it now if we did buy it. Bentley: Well if I may, I agree with what you're saying Keith but the thing too I'm looking at is the finished product, I'm not saying we've got to stop with what we're doing, I'm not saying we've got to complete the thing, I just want to block off the Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 55 rest of it so we don't have to worry about what's going to happen there because we're going to dictate what's going to happen there. Bird: You've got a point Glenn, I agree with you but — Bentley: I think we could take a look at the general fund and take an adjustment out of there and pick it up if we need to or at least tie up the property until the next budget year. Bird: Pretty soon we're going to get so much adjustments out of that general fund that we're not going to have a general fund. Corrie: This is not probably the time to tell you but we were almost 99.9% assured of the franchise fee with public service so that will take some pressure off of there so I was going to tell you that later but you might as well know it now but I don't know, I have mixed emotions with that too, I don't want to see that messed up over there but yet it could end up as a private parking lot of tractors and everything else but I guess it has to be what you are comfortable with. Bird: He's got an option on — what's he got on it? Does he have any earnest money down on it? Kuntz: No he doesn't, I think what's happening is the gentleman who is taking the building back is going to move his business into the upper floor and needs parking for himself, clients and I think that's what's happening is that individual's Bird: It's the Holloway's who've made the option on the one on the north of there? Kuntz: That's who's making it -- that's who I'm thinking. Bird: Does it run all the way back to the building? Kuntz: No. Bird: The east property is the one that goes through? Kuntz: Right, the east property is 30 -feet wide by 120 -feet long, the north property is 60 -feet wide by 60 -feet deep. Bird: When Halloway's came in here and presented their plan for the old Mangum building they wanted the property to the west which is to the east of ours so they could make an entry out of that so they could have their little mall in there, had that fallen by wayside now? Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 56 Kuntz: They're no longer pursuing that. Bird: They're going to come out the front still, but they're looking at getting that 60 -foot or whatever it is for private parking? Kutnz: Correct. Corrie: Could we possibly if it's going to be parking make it so it would look halfway decent to the requirement to pave it and all that at the time so they don't run into the park? Bird: They're going to have to landscape it. Rountree: They're going to have to landscape it. My opinion if that's what they want to do, I can see that we could require them to put in a masonry wall, landscaping, bollards on the sidewalk side so people don't drive off out of the front of that across the sidewalk and that could be incorporated into that aspect of the park. This issue at hand is yeah we'd all like to have that thing look as nice and be as big and as nice as we can get but I'm not sure that we make a change at this point we're a month or two away from trying to get anything pulled together in terms of a contract, if we've got more that we have to develop it won't get developed, there isn't sufficient monies set aside for that, it's somewhat questionable whether we can even fund the 60x60 in terms of the construction project with the available funds. I guess I'm inclined to agree with Keith as far as the budget goes, we don't know, I think it's irresponsible to take on yet another debt unknowing if I knew we had three million dollars for sure in the general fund that's a one time expense that I think would be very beneficial to the City but I don't know that and I'm not real comfortable making that decision at this point even though it is -- you know it's just another fifty thousand dollars, well that's — then you add another hundred thousand to that to develop it and all of a sudden it gets to be a big ticket deal. Bird: Cement will be up to $70.00 a yard by the time we get — Rountree: See your $5,000.00 clock is about $15,000.00 so -- I'd like to stand up here and say yeah we need that for the City and it is a park related thing and that is the area that I've taken on as a responsibility but I think on my part it's irresponsible to say let's go ahead with it without knowing we've got the money, if I knew we had the money I'd champion the thing. Corrie: Why don't you bring it back in two weeks and we'll know — (inaudible) (Inaudible) Corrie: I guess the one comment — I haven't heard from Ron yet (inaudible). Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 57 Anderson: I hate to find myself agreeing with Keith and Charlie but I think we have too many unknowns, we still don't have our 1996 audits back let alone our 1997, we keep committing money that we don't even know that we have, there's a lot of other priorities the City needs right now besides adding on a little more land and a little more expense to the Generations Plaza, I'm like Keith I'm saying let's do this project and let's get it done and let's get it over with. Corrie: Okay, that sounds like I'm not going to have to break a tie so just hang on — Kuntz: I guess the one thing I would like to do is check with Shari tomorrow to make sure that if a parking lot goes in there that we're within our powers to ask for landscaping or subdivision or a barrier wall or whatever, I think that would make a big difference in how that would appear versus a parking lot right next to the park. Corrie: It will make a big difference whether they buy it or not too so if they don't buy it we've still got a mud hole there so let's wait and see what we've got coming and -- (inaudible) Kuntz: -- But I'll proceed to talk with Shari and then if that's possible I'm just going to call Eric Thierhouse back and tell him we're not interested. Corrie: (inaudible) Kuntz: Two other things, we are moving into the Bower Street site this week, pretty much moved in just waiting for the phone system to be finished hooked up, we are using the Storey Park number as our main number over there so that way there won't be a lot of interruption with the public. Our summer program guide was printed today over at the Valley News and we're going to pick those up tomorrow and start distributing them, I'll make sure all the council members get one, it's eight pages in length — Bentley: The newspaper printed it? Kuntz: Yeah, it's 11x11 folded deal, kind of like the T.V. — not he T.V. Guide but something similar to that and we did all the typesetting in-house on our own computer and then we will be having an open house one afternoon at our office, we'll have prime rib and champagne for all those that would like to attend and the chair of our Parks and Recreation Commission is here tonight, Tammy DeWeerd. Corrie: Welcome. Okay, Chief? Gordon: Nothing Mr. Mayor. Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 58 Corrie: Okay, Tammy do you have anything you want to say, I mean a report of any kind that — DeWeerd: Well I would like to get on the agenda for the next meeting so we can present the March for Parks information but I would like to thank those of you who spent the day with us at March for Parks and we appreciated all your help and it was a really good show to the community that you're there to serve them but we did appreciate you being there so thank. Bird: Thank you guys for all your help. Corrie: (Inaudible) May 19th, that's right. Is anybody else sitting over there? Bird: Kenny's over there. Corrie: Kenny's already — (Inaudible) Bird: Chief, aren't you going to tell us about your bust? Which we appreciate — appreciate the phone calls. Gordon: I can answer any questions. Rountree: Did you find the other guy? Bird: Did you get the other guy? Gordon: The other guy turned out to be his wife and yeah we did get her, so far we — the only thing we don't know is how long they've been in operation and in talking to Kenny evidently they were over there a year or so ago with a roof fire and they were really nervous at that time so we've been getting hints about a lab up in that end of town for about the last six months. We think that's the one we were getting the information on, we hope that was the one but you know they set that thing up in a little camper sitting out in a field so it gives you some idea how tough it is to find these things. In the old days where they'd set up and have all of the hardware and the smell, there's no smell to this new method and they just punch it out within about 48 hours they can make eighty to a hundred thousand dollars depending on the size so — Bird: Is that a liquid — is meth — I mean my daughter-in-law is the one that comes out to the busts and stuff from the crime lab but I don't know does that come out of liquid or just solid? Gordon: Well it can be either. They had some meth oil that they seized out there. It can come out of powder form, a paste form, liquid form or in a hard rock form. The latest method that they're using it comes out kind of brown pasty like Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 59 stuff and they don't even bother purifying it anymore, cleaning it up, they're just selling it as fast as they can punch it out. The only thing they got was a little bit of meth oil and either he sold the last batch that he just manufactured or — Rountree: Do we have a tax on it yet? lei 4159031111111►re] Rountree: Do you need a camper? Gordon: Well that's not even his. There's sales tax on it. Bird: Is it digested Chief? Gordon: No, it's a chemical compound and it's a reaction to chemicals and Ron could probably answer your questions or Kenny a little bit better than I could there but the chemicals they use are extremely toxic and that's where some of them get in trouble is it becomes very volatile at a certain stage and if it gets away from them then that's how we find them, we like to find them that way. You guys give us a call and boy the thing is usually at the ground and you got two or three of them running down the road as fast as they can go but unfortunately like this one here they put them in residential areas and a lot of small kids around and other houses and when they do go boy it gets nasty. We have information of a couple more in town that we're working on but it used to be you had to have some intelligence, some chemical background and some type of an education but now they get it on the internet, how to make this cheap stuff and their biggest problem is finding the precursors to put the chemicals together, any dummy can do it in a garage anymore, make it in a bathtub, make it in a kitchen sink, -- yeah it used to be there was just a few chemists that were around and they'd do the cooking and boy they made lots of money by these guys, now any dummy that's got a computer gets on the internet and gets the recipe and all the instructions for fourteen dollars a month for America on-line fee and that's why we're getting so many of them. Anderson: They've got a cook time now that's less than eight hours, they can take bunsen burners and a lot of them will go right into a motel now, cook it in a motel room and they're gone the next day. They've already — you can buy everything at local hardware stores and grocery stores and it's a pretty simple process. Gordon: They'll rent a truck and go up here to one of the rest areas and do it right there. They've got the water from the rest area and they just take their electricity and the bunsen burners, rent the truck for a day, turn it in the next day and they've made like I say ten to twenty thousand dollars profit so what we're Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 60 doing now and what the state's doing is trying to clamp down on the chemicals used for precursors and that's the only way we have of tracing these guys. Rountree: Can the dogs pick it up? Gordon: Manufactured state yes but the precursors no, they're not trained in that. Rountree: Well there's too many things that the precursors are in. Bentley: Regular stuff you'd have in your household. Rountree: Your car, your battery or — Gordon: So no not yet but I'll try to keep you guys informed on that kind of stuff because you're going to get questions I realize that so — Bird: Appreciate it. Rountree: Appreciate the info. Bird: Thank you Chief. Corrie: Mr. Bird, or wait a minute — I'm looking at Wayne Crookston, number three here. Crookston: Yes, thank you. Mr. Mayor and Council, Gary Fores, he runs Northwest Turf and Garden, he's the contractor that was awarded the Sewer Plant landscape development thing, he had contacted me some time ago and said that his north boundary line and he just lives off of Linder Road, south of I can't remember the name of the subdivision but — I beg your pardon? The Landing, thank you Gary, and he was telling me that there were fences on his property line that should not be there, he says that he doesn't know whether or not they had construction permits for the fencing or not, he thinks that it is a City problem, he thinks that something should be done about it. While I was over there he showed to me the Kennedy Lateral which was supposed to have been tiled but there's about fifteen to twenty-five feet that has not been tiled that extends that fifteen to twenty-five feet is on his property and he say s that he wants it to be tiled or he wants it totally torn out. He did not want that Kennedy Lateral to be tiled in the first place and I'm just bringing it up to raise the question to the City Council as to what they want to do. Rountree: I guess I find it hard to believe that either a misplaced fence or a fence that an individual feels is misplaced is a City issue, seems to me that that's and issue between two adjacent property owners. Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 61 Corrie: I've told him that about ten times and every time he comes in I'll get drunk but — and that's for the record. Bird: That's off the record isn't it? Rountree: Shut that tape off! Corrie: I keep thinking of Keith Bird's comment back in while I shouldn't do that but that's what I told him so — Crookston: As I understand it the reason he thinks it's a City problem is because they did not get their fence construction permits and they've constructed the fences but that's totally -- Rountree: I'd be willing to bet he didn't get a permit to do any of the — (end of tape) — well if it's tiled to his property — Crookston: No, it's not that's the problem. Rountree: It's tiled through his property? Crookston: It's tiled short of his property. Rountree: And he didn't want it tiled? Bird: It's tiled through part of it though isn't it Wayne, all but fifteen feet -- of it is through his property if I understood you right, now he wants to either finish the tiling or — Crookston: It's through — fifteen to twenty-five feet — Yes — and Nampa -Meridian tiled it. Corrie: If it's not in the City how can it be our problem? Crookston: Because we required The Landing to tile it. Corrie: But not his property. We couldn't get onto his property. Crookston: But they had to tile the Kennedy Lateral, no matter who's property it was on they had to tile it. Bird: Just through their subdivision didn't they? Just through The Landing and he's not in the The Landing is he? Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 62 Crookston: He owns property that abuts the Kennedy Lateral that the south side of that is part of The Landing's property. Corrie: So we're up against it there and they didn't finish it out. Crookston: That's the way it appears to me just from viewing it, he said that they missed some property pins and they didn't get it done. Corrie: So do we have a recourse to go back to Landing and make them finish it up. Crookston: I think that we do. Bird: Yeah, let's do it. Where's the agreement? Crookston: Well the agreement is probably is between Nampa -Meridian Irrigation District and — Bird: -- Not if we made it go through, if we in a condition to develop that sub, if we made them tile the Kennedy Lateral then it should be back in the City records and we should be able to go through it. Crookston: But the agreement — the City wasn't involved in the agreement, that was a requirement for The Landing Subdivision. Bentley: But that's a requirement that they didn't finish it. Bird: That's a requirement that we made in their final plot so I don't care whether Nampa -Meridian did it or who did it we're still responsible to see that it gets done aren't we? Corrie: It should be our responsibility to see that it's done. Bird: And how do we do it Mayor? Corrie: I guess we send a letter to The Landing telling them to finish up the tiling or else we'll — Rountree: We might be premature, they may be done, it may be just his interpretation of what he thinks is his and what isn't but I think we need to investigate that a little more. We need to research it and if in fact it does appear that they're a few feet short we should direct them to finish the job. Corrie: Well we need somebody to — would that be Shari that would know on that one? Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 63 Bentley: That would be Shari. Rountree: How about your construction inspection? Smith: (Inaudible) locate some property lines. Corrie: Location of the property lines, would that be in your department? Smith: Well we don't have the equipment to do it, we'd have to get a (inaudible) out there to locate it or somebody but that's the only way you can tie this down is to where the pipe should be, where the property lines are and where the ditch is. Rountree: I think that's a discussion that needs to take place between Shari and the developer and let them know that there is an issue and have them prove that it either is or isn't an issue and if it's their responsibility they fix it and if it isn't we tell the gentleman that it's not part of their development and not within the City. Corrie: Okay I'll visit with Shari tomorrow and tell her to get on the developer and the discussion with him and where we are and go from there. Crookston: That's all I have. COiTfi=- A=.13wo[a Bird: I have nothing. Corrie: Mr. Bentley? Bentley: Yes, we need and I said this last meeting and Shari's not here to hear it again, especially with this rural fire situation and stuff we need to get these enclaves annexed into the city or we're going to have a hell of a time if this thing splits apart doing coverage. Rountree: Have we even identified them all? Corrie: I think (inaudible) five acres I think we have but — Smith: Mayor, Council, I was just wondering, I know Shari's having a difficult time hiring someone to help her or finding someone and I don't know what consultant planners if they exist like consulting engineers do but I wonder if some of these things could be contracted to a consultant in that planning field and they could take it and get it done so that she wouldn't have to be worrying about that or you wouldn't have to be worrying about getting it done and I don't know how this all falls out in her budget but maybe Mayor if you're going to be talking to her on this other issue it might be worth mentioning I don't know, I don't know what Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 64 the — I know I wouldn't get much done in Public Works if it wasn't for consultants because it just takes too big of a staff to do that kind of work and to have that kind of expertise. Corrie: She went over some applications with me last week and boy it's a mess. Planners they got that's coming just right out of school they want $45,000.00 and no experience whatsoever, the ones that have experience want $60,000.00 so she's up against the wall here. I think we've got a couple of ex -police officers that are going to be code enforcement people on some part-time basis so we can save some money there but I really would like to talk to her about that because that's a good idea, I don't know whether there are planners consultants or not, (inaudible) is a planner but he's not in that field, there may be some others so we can — if council wishes me to talk to them I sure will. Smith: Some of the civil engineering groups have planners on staff and — Corrie: Well yeah there's Jerome Mapp — Yeah they could do some private work I don't know how the — Anderson: I think we've got to get going on this, I mean we're losing revenue off the properties to begin with but yet we're providing the damn service and you know we're getting nothing in return. Corrie: Well she's got money in her budget, there's no question about that, maybe we can talk to her and see — she may know some people on a temporary basis. Rountree: Mr. Mayor, on that point, yeah there are — JUB, for instance, I know has several planners on staff, one of them is fairly familiar with the City of Meridian, (inaudible) I'm not so sure that — I don't think Jim has one on staff yet but he's probably not far from it, there are a bunch of those types out there that could provide assistance so I don't think that's a problem and as far as the salary demands and commands I don't know where they're coming from because they're not getting that in the industry, I mean one or two in a graduating class of honor students might get those kind of wages but in a planning field at least it's not in my experience that they're getting those kind of wages so — and the competition isn't that tough out there so maybe we need to look at what we're asking for and see if we can't maybe get a different source of potential candidates. Corrie: I know Boise's looking for another one but they're having the same problems, we'll look them up and see what else has come in but these are the applicants we got so — we'll look at JUB and (inaudible) for consultant work and get this other done. You're right, that (inaudible) in the city limits is going to have to be taken care of real fast because if — that's another story so — Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 65 Rountree: I have two items Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Are you through Mr. Bentley? Bentley: Yeah, I'm through. Rountree: He's damn near ready to fall asleep for the record. Bentley: I love you all but it's past my bedtime. Rountree: It's my understanding and has been for some time but apparently it's official or going to be official soon that we're going to have to replace a P & Z individual, I guess I wanted to find out what the status of your list is for those kinds of folks and if not then maybe encourage another invite in the newspaper for potential candidates and I guess if any of us know people that might be interested it would be a good idea to have them come talk to the Mayor. Corrie: Yep, I'll be glad to talk to anybody that you've got in mind. I've been talking to Malcolm MacCoy and Jim, we've been having a lot of conversations here pretty fast, I know Jim wants to get out about June so — Rountree: My thoughts on those changes is if we do get somebody on and there is a change in terms of the chairmanship that maybe we ought to be looking at our planning meeting in May and if not May, June as a joint meeting with P & Z and (inaudible) because there are some issues that they've got that they'd like to get going on a new comp plan amendment which I think we're in need of and some other things that they can help us with so I think we need to get something going there. The other item I have is the Turtle Creek Subdivision, I had Steve Bradbury contacted me Thursday or Friday on the resale of the Turtle Creek Sub., for those who that don't know where that is it's right across the street from the new Tully Park on Linder. The history of that subdivision goes back to 1994 and it's been up and down and the City has granted it two extensions to meet its — to extend it's time limitations for filing plats and apparently the previous owner got in a situation financially to where he had to let it go. The property has sold to a Dr. Tidwell, he has formed a new group consisting of Leon & Bruce Blaser, they have a subdivision that is essentially complete, it's been through the final platting, it's had various final plat certifications, it's to the point where — the owners have signed it, Central Health has signed it, it needs to go to ACHD, I guess we need to finally sign off on it at some point and time but the deal is is their last extension is expired, they're asking — apparently they asked Gary and talked to Shari about what they can do, what would the Council's pleasure be as far as this subdivision goes — the other twist is that this is the sub that was going to participate in the bulk of the cost of the pump facility for Tully Park. They generally agree to all of that, I even threw out that well being's that we're Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 66 improving our side of the road we might want them to improve their side of the road just to have it done around the park, they didn't seem to hesitate what they do want to know is what's the correct order here, do we send them back to P & Z and they start over with preliminary plat, can we pick it up from where it is and have a public hearing — Gary's going say please do — if that's staff's desire because of the principle's now involved and the status of that plat because it is so old I'm not opposed to that they just need to know. Bentley: Mr. Mayor, I don't have a problem with it continuing where it left off if staff doesn't have a problem with it, it would be nice to get it done and like Charlie says get that side done and get our pump house taken care of so we don't have to put out any more money. Smith: Mayor and Council, I think we had figured their share at around $50,000.00 on that pump station and that would heal up the budget on the park by a bunch and second thing is that that subdivision is partially constructed and they've excavated streets and they've dug some pipe lines, irrigation and I'm not so sure about water and sewer but anyway — Rountree: I don't think they've done anything below the sub ex for the roadways. Smith: They piped part of the Settlers ditch I know that and they've got — some of the contractors have got some pretty good sized leans against the property. Rountree: Apparently that's part of this is that they will be paid. Smith: Right, so there are people that are out money other than developers or the previous developer, contractors that is that have put money in there to make the improvements that have not been paid, that's one item the other would be the Tully Park pump station which they would jump in the middle of so — and I think if my memory serves me right at this time of the day and so forth, I'm not positive of this but I don't think that Shari had a real, any heartburn with letting this thing go forward even though the time schedules have not been met but I can't speak absolutely for her. Rountree: Would you want as a minimum them to present the plat as it is for re- review by the City on their dime before we authorize them to advance it to ACHD and then it come back through the other aspects of the approval process? Smith: From my standpoint as City Engineer, I don't. Rountree: You don't see any changes that are necessary? Smith: No sir. Corrie: They're pretty much the same then as far as — Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 67 Smith: Yes sir, the plat was approved and the development plant were approved and they as Councilman Rountree said they had two intention I think, one was one more than they're supposed to get but it was granted and because of some of he comments that the developer made at the time, promises and so forth, but Rountree: Actually there was another six months extension in there which would have required the plat to have been recorded by March 20tH Corrie: I don't see any problems there with planning and zoning I just want to get (inaudible) but that doesn't seem to be a problem so — Rountree: So I suppose if we desired we could grant another six months extension. Corrie: You can do it. Rountree: It's not typical but we can grant extensions on these and have normally just for a year. Smith: Well the ordinance I think is specific as to how long the approval's are good for and if you exceed that I don't know for sure but I assume there's a mechanism that throws the thing back or something else happens or needs to happen according to the ordinance, that's Wayne's — I just see it sitting there, see people that have money in the ground that they can't get the money out, I see that we've got $50,000.00 in there in the park's budget that apparently can be — we can grab hold of — Corrie: Can't we (inaudible) grant them another six months after we did the two? I'm asking — Crookston: That's totally up to the City Council. Corrie: It can be done by the City Council, the ordinance — Crookston: Our ordinance does not indicate that that can be done. Anderson: But it doesn't say it can't be done. Crookston: That's true and the City has done it before. Corrie: Well I would say if you want to do that, we could extend it six months and Rountree: Any other discussion? Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 68 Corrie: Do you have any further discussion on it? Bird: (Inaudible) Rountree: Leon and Bruce Blaser and Dr. Tidwell. Smith: Mayor and Council, I guess there's another aspect to this whether or not the Blaser's are involved and I can't say that -- Bruce and Leon did Haven Cove Subdivision, I can't sit here and say that we had any big problems with them really, I mean the subdivision was approved by planning and zoning —the layout was approved by planning and zoning and City Council and it was and R-4 subdivision and it's not very imaginative but it serves the purpose and houses are built and it's a pretty decent subdivision so we didn't have to my knowledge, we didn't have any big problems with Bruce and Leon as developers, I think they've got some money behind them, I don't know who Dr. Tidwell is but the subdivision was laid out, this subdivision was laid out by JUB and again it went through the process, it's got streets that aren't straight as a string and they've got some curvature to them, it's a fairly attractive subdivision, it has some green space in it, it has a parkway on it's entrance, there was a lot of testimony by the adjoining subdivisions at the time it was approved concerning traffic and those things were kind of ironed out I believe — they weren't — Bird: No, I'm not saying that I just want to make sure that they've got the money behind them and these other people — we're not going to have a subdivision out there with a whole bunch of liens, or we're going to get halfway through it again and run out of money, I don't know how you solve that to be truthful but I have no problem with going an extension with them if the rest of the Council would want to do that. Corrie: Any further discussion? Rountree: Gary did you get a sense from them that they could do this in short order? Smith: The only person that I've talked to on this project is Steve Bradbury and at the time I talked to him I didn't know who the developers were and all he said was that they were ready to — they wanted to go on it, he was representing a client that was wanting to do the project. Rountree: I don't have a great amount of grief with the extension if they can get it done. Bird: I don't either Charlie, I agree with you let's give it a shot. Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 69 Rountree: I think if we have those developers take that piece of ground and re - plat it we won't have the (inaudible) in the one that's platted and they could very well do that. Smith: I think that was the point I was making (Inaudible) Rountree: I don't mind saying it on the record Gary. Corrie: I guess we have one more question over here. Berg: I have a question for Gary. Are we going to want that $50,000.00 cash then when it comes signing for that pumphouse to us? Smith: I think it's — I'm getting the plans — we had to make some modifications to the diversion structure in Five Mile drain for the Nampa -Meridian folks and they're making those changes now, JUB is, so that we can get it out the door for bid so I would say we would be in need of the funds in fairly short order. Berg: Is it a portion of the total cost? Smith: Yes. Berg: Okay so it's not -- $50,000.00 is just a ball park figure and then all the other bonding requirements as required by signing the plat before recording. Smith: Yeah, as I remember it Will it was around — the split was around 70/30 or something like that, 70% developer and 30% city on that pump station. Berg: Thanks. Corrie: Okay, I think we're all in agreement so if somebody wants to, since it's a park thing, let's — Rountree: Mr. Mayor, I move that we grant an extension for the approval of Turtle Creek Subdivision final plat with the condition that the developer provide to the city the appropriate percentage for the pump station to provide pressure irrigation system for the subdivision as well as Tully Park and that they include as part of their development the improvement of Linder to a full width in front of their subdivision. Bird: Second. Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Rountree second by Mr. Bird for the whole enchilada there so — any discussion? All in favor of the motion say aye. Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 70 MOTION CARRIED: All aye. Rountree: It's 11:30, we need to have an executive session whether it's tonight or we get together early tomorrow but we've got some things we've got to talk about. I wouldn't request one at this hour but Glenn's going to kick me — Bentley: How long are you going to be? Rountree: Well how long are you going to be? It could be an hour or it could be ten minutes but — Bentley: Well let's go see. Bird: Let's see. Rountree: I'll make that motion after — Corrie: Anything to bring up? Okay, I just eluded to it earlier this evening, I got a call from Layne Dobson that the Board of Directors has approved the franchise for a new franchise for the City of Meridian and it has to be signed by the vice president of the company and I think it will be done by the end of this week so I'll know next week whether we got it, I'm about 99% sure so — Rountree: Is that a 1 %? Corrie: It's a 1 %, you can go up to 4 but it has to be voted on, you can go up to 2% without a vote but they're going to bring it back and work with the re -vamping of the comp plan and what have you so that's fine I have no problems with that so — but I think it's 1 %, it's somewhere in the $500,000.00 range to % of a million. That's all I had so I'll entertain a motion for executive session. Rountree: Mr. Mayor I move that we go into executive session. Bird: Second. Corrie: Motion made and seconded that we go into executive session. All those in favor say aye. MOTION CARRIED: All aye. (EXECUTIVE SESSION) Corrie: We're back from executive session, the time is 12:40 a.m. and we had a discussion on personnel, no decisions were made at this point. I'll entertain a motion for adjournment. Meridian City Council May 5, 1998 Page 71 Bentley: So moved. Bird: Second. Corrie: Motion made and second that we adjourn. All those in favor say aye. MOTION CARRIED: All aye. MEETING ADJOURNED AT 12:41 A.M. (TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) APPROVED: ROBERT D. CORRIE, MAYOR ATTEST: WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., CITY CLERK