HomeMy WebLinkAbout1998 03-17MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING MARCH 17. 1998
The regular meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 7:30 p.m.
by Mayor Corrie.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Ron Anderson, Charlie Rountree, Glenn Bentley, Keith
Bird.
OTHERS PRESENT: Wayne Crookston, Bill Gordon, Shari Stiles, Will Berg, Matt
DuVall, Deana DuVall, Luis Hine, Linda Hine, Donna Szathmary, Jennifer Bell,
Jodi Fife, Drew Fife.
Corrie: Council you have the minutes of the meeting held March 3, 1998 are
there any corrections or alterations to the minutes?
Anderson: None.
Rountree: None.
Bird: None.
Bentley: None.
Bird: I make a motion we accept the minutes of the March 3rd meeting.
Rountree: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bird second by Mr. Rountree that we accept the
minutes as written on March 3, 1998. All in favor say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: All ayes.
Corrie: At this time I would like to make a little deviation Council, do a
proclamation here. This is for read week and it said the proclamation whereas
reading is a very important part of our every day lives, whereas reading is an
important part of our learning process to communicate with one another, whereas
reading allows us to go anywhere anytime we want in fiction, mystery, non-fiction
and poetry, and whereas reading allows families to exchange ideas, thoughts,
and spend time together, whereas reading allows the community to become a
better place to live, work and exchange ideas, now therefore I, Robert D. Corrie,
Mayor of the City of Meridian, Idaho do hereby proclaim March 16-201h as read
week in the city of Meridian, Idaho and I urge all citizens to celebrate read week,
to support it, efforts by setting aside a time to read and further I urge all citizens
to read more and promote the well being of this and further generations dated the
16th day of March 1998 and I would like to present this proclamation to Leslie
Meridian City Council
March 17, 1998
Page 2
Dunbar with the Horizon Reading Council President of Nampa, Idaho and would
Leslie come forward.
ITEM #1: TABLED MARCH 3,1998: INSTALLATION OF SEPTIC SYSTEM FOR
A WAREHOUSE BUILDING BY MCCALL PROPERTIES:
Corrie: Is there a representative from McCall here tonight? Council, to give you
an update on this I've sent a letter to Mr. Roland Saums and haven't got his
answer back yet as far as the system is concerned but Ron Van Auker is going to
give us an update sometime next week on the figures on the sewer line across
his property so I would like to see us table this for another two weeks until we get
with Paul and Mr. Saums representative.
Bentley: Mr. Mayor, I move we table this to April 2nd
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bentley second by Mr. Bird that we table till April the
7th, any further discussion? Mr. Rountree?
Rountree: Do we have some assurance that Mr. Saums' representative is going
to be available in two weeks?
Corrie: Yes, he's in Florida this week or he would have been back, they're having
a meeting next week and I thing Gary Smith is going to represent me at that
meeting and they think that it will be done by that time. Further discussion? All
those in favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: All ayes.
ITEM #2: TABLED MARCH 3,1998: DISCUSSION OF STUB STREET NEEDED
IN CROSSROADS NO. 6 SUBDIVISION BY LARRY SALE - ACHD:
Corrie: Larry, welcome to the Council meeting.
Sale: Mr. Mayor and Council, should I be sworn first?
Crookston: No. If you want to be we can do it.
Sale: Maybe I should be because the first thing I want to do is make my sincere
apologies to the Council, Mayor and staff for not being here two weeks ago. I had
written it down, unfortunately it was on last Tuesday instead of (inaudible).
apologize. Do you have the letter I sent over in the packet?
Corrie: I think we do, yes.
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March 17, 1998
Page 3
Sale: If you could refer to that first map and I'm sure you all know where
Crossroads Subdivision is southeast (inaudible) of Fairview and Eagle Road.
Then turn to the second map which is on the third page, it shows the entire
preliminary plat, it shows the location of the stub street (inaudible) I would
certainly ask a favor of you to grant approval to provide that stub street to the
neighboring property. We just frankly screwed up when it came through and I
mean all of us collectively, for some reason we didn't think of any neighborhood
connectivity when we approved the first subdivision and there's quite an area to
the east of it to the north of that big church parcel that can be developed for
residential services. There's probably some of it that would go for commercial too
along the frontage but the owners of the adjoining property have contacted the
Highway District to start as a pre -application review to discuss their plans for the
property. They're planning residential and at that time it leaked out to us that we
probably over (inaudible). I contacted the developer of the subdivision Capital
Development, Mr. Yorgason who looked at it and agreed that they would make
the changes to the plat and the street configuration if I would come make the
plea to the Council. (Inaudible) I understand that you've approved the final plat
for the subdivision you haven't signed the plat so that it will necessitate you re -
approving the plat with this change and maybe then the third map on the last
page shows you a little more detail. It looks like this and I would just ask first of
all your forgiveness and secondly your approval of the change for that plat as
described. There's no change in the number of lots, it does eliminate a triangular
lot and divide another rectangular lot. We will make sure when the adjoining
property comes through that that street won't get extended very far in a straight
fashion so that it won't turn into a drag strip. We will try to get it T'd into another
street as one lot (inaudible) adjoining property. That about does it, any other
questions?
Rountree: I have no questions of Larry.
Corrie: Questions? None? My question I guess would be to Counselor, can we
make that amendment, legally?
Crookston: I think that Ramon Yorgason needs to be here to consent to that.
Sale: Will his written consent — or could you make it contingent upon — (Inaudible
— too far from microphone)
Crookston: Yes you could.
Corrie: Gary do you have any problems with that or Shari?
Smith: I don't Mr. Mayor.
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March 17, 1998
Page 4
Corrie: Any questions from Council?
Rountree: I had a question for Shari. Isn't that right on the edge of our impact
area, or very close?
Stiles: Yes that next quarter mile would be the end of our impact area there.
(Inaudible)
Rountree: I have no further questions.
Sale: I will ask Mr. Yorgason to send a letter of request or consent —
Corrie: -- Consent to make that change, addition — actually or taking away
number ten lot, put into a street so we need his approval on that to do that.
Anything else, Mr. Bentley?
Bentley: Do we make the approval now with that contingency then have this done
with?
Corrie: We can, yes, with that contingency.
Bentley: Mr. Mayor, I would move we approve the amendment to approve the
stub street for Crossroads No. 6 contingent upon the written approval of Ramon
Yorgason.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bentley second by Mr. Bird on the motion, any
further discussion?
Rountree: Mr. Mayor, a point of clarification per the guidance that Larry has given
us in looking at this. He indicated there wouldn't' be any lots gained or lost, there
would be a lot lost it appears.
Sale: The lot that goes through would be replaced up in the upper north east
corner. There wouldn't be any change in the number of lots.
Corrie: So they're going to make it up here at the front?
Rountree: There's a lot there. There's a lot there, and there's a lot there now.
Sale: I think he can put three lots in where those two —
Rountree: You think that those will meet frontage?
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March 17, 1998
Page 5
Stiles: Seventy feet.
Rountree: Seventy feet? Okay, thank you. That's all my question.
Corrie: Any further questions? All in favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: All ayes.
ITEM #3: NEW FINDINGS OF FACTS AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW FOR A
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A DAY CARE CENTER BY JODI FIFE:
Corrie: Council, any discussion on the new Findings of Fact and Conclusions?
Hearing none I will entertain a motion on the Findings of Facts and Conclusions
of Law.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor, I move that City Council hereby adopts and approves these
Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Rountree second by Mr. Bird to accept the Findings
of Facts and Conclusions of Law as written by the Council, any further
discussion?
Bentley: Mr. Mayor, I've got some problems with a couple of issues on this.
Everybody understands there is a need for good quality day cares throughout
the city but part of the Condition Use process states that it must be harmonious
and work well with the neighbor included, Mrs. Fife spoke that in her
conversations with Mr. Alverson she felt that she could get along with everybody
and everything should be fine but in the same token she stated that if Mr.
Alverson wanted privacy they should have bought a piece that was more out in
the country, a bigger piece or maybe even a piece with retired people in it or
something. I have a little problem with that, with the problem of being able to
work with your neighbors and the amount of changes that have been made in
this since it came through from P & Z, the substantial changes, house location,
size of the backyard, the amount of people that was originally on the permit, and
I'm not satisfied that Mr. Alverson who is the next door neighbor in this is going to
— is really settled on even having this thing reduced down to six or less children,
so—
Rountree:
o—
Rountree: -- Actually twelve, six to twelve.
Bentley: Six to twelve, down from the twenty-four so my feeling is this should go
back to P & Z for reconsideration and hopefully they can get the problems that
seem to be present right now cleared up.
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March 17, 1998
Page 6
Corrie: Any further discussion?
Rountree: Without total review of the testimony there was indication on part of at
least some folks testifying that a reduced number of children in this particular
setting was something they could be agreeable to, that was our discussion at our
last meeting. Our direction was to prepare new Findings of Facts to reflect that
which these do, short of total denial of this application I'm not sure that that
particular issue is going to be resolved and I guess it's upon us to make that
decision one way or another so I having said that I would call for question on the
motion.
Corrie: Question's been called.
ROLL CALL VOTE: Mr. Bird — yea, Mr. Bentley — nay, Mr. Rountree — yea, Mr.
Anderson — nay.
Corrie: I have two nay's and two yea's so the Mayor gets to break the tie. I think
that there's people in the area that do need this type of service, no question
about that, my main question is that they petitioned the Planning & Zoning for
twenty-four, they found out that they weren't going to get twenty-four through the
Planning & Zoning so they changed it to twelve which eliminated that major
problem. There was some question as to the people around there, one I believe
in particular, that didn't get the letter but I think it went to the people who owned
the house, is that correct? I would assume that you will try to do as much as you
can to your next door neighbor and the dogs and the dogs probably are going to
bark a little bit but maybe you can work that out, your comment was a little bit
rough on that one but I think you understood that so I'm going to vote yea on this
one and hope that it's correct in that assumption that you will work with them.
Decision.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor I move that the City Council hereby approves the
Conditional Use Permit requested by the applicant for the property described in
the application with the conditions set forth in the Findings of Facts and
Conclusions of Law and the property shall be required to meet the water and
sewer requirments, the fire and life safety code, the uniform building code, and
other ordinances of the City of Meridian. The Conditional Use shall be subject to
annual review upon notice to the applicant by the City.
Bird: Second it.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Rountree second by Mr. Bird on the decision, any
further discussion? All those in favor of the motion say aye. All those negative
say no.
Meridian City Council
March 17, 1998
Page 7
MOTION CARRIED: All ayes.
ITEM #4: NEW FINDINGS OF FACTS AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW FOR A
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT BY
STEINER CORPORATION:
Crookston: Mr. Mayor, I have declared a conflict of interest on that, John Prior is
here to answer any questions if the Council has any.
Corrie: Council this is one that was brought to my attention and I brought it to the
attention of the Council. Any discussion on this Findings of Facts and
Conclusions of Law? Anything that you want to say before we do this?
Rountree: Mr. Mayor, I don't necessarily see that a threat of direction or action is
shown in the findings to the applicant and that's probably a weakness on our part
for not providing that specific information to counsel in the preparation of the
findings. My thoughts and direction of this particular action at the time of the
hearing was that the difficulty I had with it was a lack of being harmonious with
the surrounding R-4 neighborhood and the larger lots and larger homes that it
abutted and that if you'll recall I gave the example of the kinds of things that we
had done in Meridian Greens and another subdivision that escapes me with
providing larger lots and establishing a particular architectural style in a new
requested subdivision that would reflect the architectural and lot size in those
adjacent lots and then transition into the proposed use be it smaller lots or in this
case a P.U.D., planned unit development, I've indicated to Mr. Campbell that I'm
willing to sit down and discuss those issues with them, having said that that the
way the findings are set up it's set up as a denial to the original application by
way of discussion I'm not opposed to tabling this until we have an opportunity to
discuss this with Mr. Campbell and maybe make further modifications to make
the direction clear to them and that we don't have double actions on this, that
approach would also require the delay in tabling of the next item on our agenda
as well which is a subdivision plat. Those are my comments.
Corrie: Any further comments? Mr. Rountree do you want to make that into
motion and we'll see where it goes?
Rountree: Mr. Mayor I would move that we table action on this finding as well as
the next item on our agenda until we have an opportunity to sit down with the
applicant and provide specific direction to them with this particular application.
Bird: I'll second that.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Rountree second by Mr. Bird to table item #3 and #4
with the time to sit down and discuss the Findings of Facts and the ways that the
Council would like for them to go. Any further discussion?
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March 17, 1998
Page 8
Bentley: Mr. Mayor, I think we're going to have to come up with a date though I
don't think you can just throw out an indefinite table on it.
Rountree: I would amend that to add a date certain — has it been seconded?
Corrie: Yes, withdraw your second.
Bird: I withdraw the second.
Rountree: I'd amend by motion to propose a date certain —
Corrie: My suggestion would be four weeks.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor, again I would modify my previous motion to include a date
certain that we would decide on our regularly scheduled meeting April 21St
Bird: I'll second that.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Rountree second by Mr. Bird to table the motion of
item #3 and item #4 until the 21 St of April. Any further discussion? All those in
favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: All ayes.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor, on that subject I would request that Shari work with the
developer and get a date established that we could sit down with them,
preferably an evening.
Corrie: Shari?
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, once we do sit down with them and explain some
of the things that we would like to see in the proposal is do you have an idea of
when that would go back to public hearing or are you suggesting it go back to
Planning and Zoning Commission for a public hearing or to the City Council?
Rountree: I don't know what the resolve is going to be, it may very well have to
go back through Planning & Zoning and I suspect that's what's going to have to
happen.
Stiles: Okay.
Corrie: So if you'll set up a time and notify Will so we can put a notice at the City.
Stiles: Is that the entire Council that wants to meet with them or is that just —
Meridian City Council
March 17, 1998
Page 9
Corrie: -- Do you want to have two at a time?
Rountree: That probably would be easier to discuss two at a time.
Stiles: Okay, thanks.
ITEM #5: TABLED MARCH 3,1998: PRELIMINARY PLAT, 48 LOTS FOR THE
VILLAS AT THE LAKES SUBDIVISION BY STEINER CORPORATION:
ITEM #6: ORDINANCE #789 — THURGOOD REZONE:
Corrie: Item #6 is Ordinance #789, this is a rezone ordinance. Ordinance #789 is
an ordinance of the City of Meridian amending and changing the zoning of
certain real property in the City of Meridian which is generally described as a
portion of the south-east corner of section 1, township 3 north, range 1 west and
also known as 236 W. Cherry Lane, Boise, Meridian, Ada County, Idaho and
providing for effective date. Is there anyone from the audience that would like to
have Ordinance #789 read in its entirety?
Bentley: Mr. Mayor, just for verification this is #789 is that correct, because
there's no number on our ordinance.
Corrie: Right it's #789. This is rezoned from R-4 to a residential L -O, limited
office. Any discussion on Ordinance #789? If none I'll entertain a motion for
Ordinance #789.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor, I move that City Council approve Ordinance #789,
authorize the Mayor to sign and the City Clerk to attest.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Ordinance #789 with suspension of rules, all in favor say aye. Opposed
no. -- Oh I'm sorry that is a roll call vote. Back-up on a roll call vote.
ROLL CALL VOTE: Mr. Bird — Yea, Mr. Bentley — yea, Mr. Rountree — yea, Mr.
Anderson — yea.
MOTION CARRIED: All yeas.
ITEM #7: APPROVAL OF CHANGE OF ADDRESS FOR LIQUOR AND BEER
LICENSE FOR BILL MARTELL — BILL 'N LYNN'S PLACE:
Corrie: Chief, is everything in order on this one?
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March 17, 1998
Page 10
Gordon: Yes sir it is. I believe the application has been filed with the City Clerk
for transfer of the premise to be served by the license.
Corrie: Any question of the Council?
Bentley: We can't hear your head shake Will.
Berg: Yes, I have received the application and he's paid a change of address fee.
He also has brought in the state and the county license with the address
changes.
Corrie: Any further questions?
Rountree: Just a point of clarification for me with — it's moving from where to
where? I know it's here somewhere but it's kind of hard to figure out.
Corrie: Chief, do you want to do that one?
Gordon: It was up in the mall area across from Albertson's on Fairview, it's
moving down to Franklin across approximately from Geisler's Auto into the old
Farmer's Club.
Corrie: Any further questions? I'll entertain a motion for approval or denial.
Anderson: Mr. Mayor, I make a motion we approve the change of address for the
liquor and beer license for Bill 'n Lynn's Place.
Rountree: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Anderson second by Mr. Rountree to approve the
change of address for liquor and beer license for Bill 'n Lynn's Place, further
discussion? All those in favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: All ayes.
ITEM #8: DISCUSSION BY DEANA DUVALL REGARDING POSSIBLE POT
BELLY PIG ORDINANCE:
DuVall: I have some papers here that I'd like to —
Corrie: Are you Deana?
DuVall: I'm giving you some papers that are the first two pages are copies of a
permit in the city in which we previously resided that shows the different
requirements that we had to meet to be able to keep our pig. The third page is a
copy of Penny's registration showing proof that she is a registered miniature pot
Meridian City Council
March 17, 1998
Page 11
belly pig. The fourth is a copy of licensing that we had done in city of (inaudible),
she was licensed as a dog, and the fifth is a copy of suggestions or proposals for
an ordinance for pot belly pig keeping. On that page some of the requirements
are listed on the pot belly permits page, and one gives you a zoning minimum,
your lot requirement that we previously decided was ten thousand square feet
just shy of a quarter acre lot. The second was a height requirement of no more
than twenty-two inches at shoulder. The third is a weight requirement of no more
than 120 pounds. The fourth is proof of registration with a pot belly pig
registration proving that undoubtedly your pig isn't going to turn into something
that's 800 pounds or so. The fifth was adequate fencing for keeping in a pot belly
pig. The sixth was a suggestion for licensing yearly, the same as a dog, the same
fees. The seventh, the fee requirements — a one time reasonable fee for the
permit and licensed yearly as a dog. The eighth is an agreement signed by
owners acknowledging the keeping of the animal, that you may not keep it if it
exceeds your height and weight requirements and these to us were all
reasonable things that in order to get a permit to be able to keep our pig and I
wanted to propose these as some sort of basis or a guideline for an ordinance for
a pot belly pig ordinance in the City of Meridian. I wanted to let you know too that
I had talked to the animal control officer in Meridian and he said he had no
problem with pot belly pigs being kept in with the basis that there were
requirements by height, weight, yard restrictions and he'd like to be able to see
the animals tracked as with the licensing program.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor, it appears that our animal control officer and Penny have
become acquainted, I guess if he doesn't have any problem rounding it up when
it's at large it must be okay. I guess in seriousness though my comment would be
it appears that our sister city to the west has just dealt with this issue and they
may have somewhat of an ordinance that we might want to look at. I've looked at
what we have and what we have is pretty inadequate to address this and a whole
lot of other creatures that people have become accustomed to keeping at their
residence so I think we probably need to take a look at the whole area of exotic
pets in our ordinance activity on this and I didn't see anything in our ordinance
that would necessarily preclude the pot belly pig but then there are some areas
that are quite unclear so —
DuVall: Well it really depends if you want to consider them a pet or an agricultural
animal.
Rountree: Those are my only comments at this point.
Anderson: I was wondering if we could get Deana to maybe give us a little
education about pot belly pigs, I don't know a whole lot about them but if you
could tell us a little bit about the nature, the size they typically grow to become,
whether they're kept in the house, outdoors, when you talk about fencing does it
require special fencing or —
Meridian City Council
March 17, 1998
Page 12
DuVall: -- No, but we have in the past, in our other residence taken special
precautions. We buried our fence down a foot to keep any digging which we were
fortunate Penny isn't one who digs so that never was an issue. The biggest issue
the animal control officer had in our neighborhood there was an animal that was
loose that might hurt her and might come over the fence and had asked that we
have a fence of at least five feet which our fence was six feet and therefore
adequate. They range anywhere from fifty to a hundred and fifty pounds. I put
down a hundred and twenty pounds on this as a suggestion because that's what
Lathrop had suggested. Nampa I think I read in the paper said that they were
going up to 160 pounds which I thought was really generous. As to people
keeping them indoors or out that's a preference. With our animal she is definitely
an indoor animal. She like being outside but she hates the cold weather, she'd
rather be in front of a fireplace or fighting over a heat register.
Anderson: Are they protective by nature or what's their temperament?
DuVall: They're not aggressive as a rule. Their whole life is food based, I mean if
you have food there they're there for life or until the food runs out, whichever
comes first. Like I said they are not aggressive animals. They are protective, I
know a lady whose pig has a toy truck and he won't let anybody play with it,
children, animals or otherwise, that's just something that he's fixated on. Penny's
not got anything that she considers worth protecting except maybe her food dish.
Bentley: I've got to ask a question. When you're cooking ham or bacon what
does the pig do?
DuVall: Sits and begs. We're having BLT's for dinner tonight (inaudible)
Corrie: I have a question, just for my own edification. I noticed that the City of
Lathrop dog license had the rabies vaccination crossed off, do they have to have
a rabies vaccination?
DuVall: No, there's something called a pseudo -rabies but when I took Penny to
our vet in California he asked if she was ever in contact with other pigs and I said
no and he said he wouldn't give her the shots then otherwise. There was
something with contact and he suggested that if we wanted to take her to any of
the local fairs or anything where there would be other animals that I bring her in
and have a pseudo -rabies as well as maybe a couple other shots done, other
than that she was licensed as a dog and if we were to have her fixed they were
willing to give us the breakdown for a neutered animal fee.
Corrie: Okay, I was just wondering in making up of the ordinance if that would be
a requisition they're required to have a vaccination of any kind.
Meridian City Council
March 17, 1998
Page 13
Bentley: Mr. Mayor, one serious question. How many do you have?
DuVall: One. She's all we need. It's really liking having a really spoiled three year
old hanging around.
Bentley: Do you have any other exotic animals?
Duvall: We have two snakes and I wanted to bring up too about your exotic
animals because we have pythons and they do not exceed four feet and I was
going to suggest that you might want to look to your fish and game regulations
for keeping of exotic animals because in Lathrop we did have a regulation that
you could not have snakes over four feet long and other places had them where
they were ten or twelve but I really find it appalling that people can buy Burmese
pythons and reticulated pythons something that's going to be twenty feet or more
when they do not realize really and truly what they are getting because they are
dangerous at that point, they're very dangerous and I like my exotic creatures
they're harmless and there are a lot of people who do not take responsibility and
that's — like I said I just find that appalling.
Bentley: Do you take your pig out for a walk?
DuVall: It's more of a drag because my idea of walking is a little fast her idea of
walking is like ambling and sniffing every potential food source that's in her path.
Bentley: Do you load them like you do regular pigs, put a bucket over their head
and go backward real fast?
DuVall: No, actually I take her over to the car and tell her to load up and she puts
her front feet in and we boost her in and that's her version of loading up.
Bentley: Yeah, I had to load pigs once and that was real fun and you put the
bucket on their head and you go backwards very fast, faster than you think they
can go.
Corrie: I think I'm learning more about pigs than I want to know. We might be
able to use some of your knowledge though to help with this ordinance, I'm sure
that we have some people from Nampa that could probably help us on this one
but Council —
Rountree: I had another question about the life span.
DuVall: The last I had heard from anyone the expected life span was twenty-eight
years.
Meridian City Council
March 17, 1998
Page 14
Rountree: And they maintain that weight of 120 pounds or less normally in that
life span?
DuVall: They can be allowed to hugely over eat but at that point you're talking
they're going to be breaking legs because for their size their legs and joints are
just too weak. At fifty-five pounds our vet was concerned that Penny was five
pounds over weight and that it would affect her knees. So anything that's going to
get too huge for it's body size is going to be crippled very shortly.
Anderson: One more question. Sanitation, I mean do they — is there a lot of odor,
do they create a lot of waste?
DuVall: There's not a lot of odor we found out with the pig in fact we compost her
yard waste for our garden a lot. There is no odor unless it's like broken open or
smeared.
Corrie: Any further questions?
Rountree: We have a lady that would like to provide some input.
Corrie: Would you like to come up here?
Szathmary: I have a pot belly pig, she's ten years old —
Rountree: Would you just state your name please.
Szathmary: Oh I'm sorry, Donna Szathmary. I've had a pig for ten years and I
went through this in Arizona where I moved from Scottsdale and they have much
less restrictions as far as having one. There's no requirements as far as height or
anything like that or weight. I'd just like to see you maybe do away some of —
that's a lot of restrictions. They're less harmful than dogs, they're defenseless,
they can throw their heads and that's about it. Their poop does not smell if they're
fed Purina Pig Chow, which is what they need. It's just a feed that doesn't break
down like a dog's food does. It doesn't attract flies, your neighbors would never
know you had one unless you told them.
Corrie: What about the weight, you mentioned weight — not a restriction on
weight, what if they get — how high do you think they should go?
Szathmary: Well the restriction was that they be a registered pot belly pig and
because in the beginning — because these pigs as far as life span really don't
know how long they're going to live because they've only come about in the last
fifteen to twenty years so my pig is about sixty pounds but the earlier ones that
had been bred they're up there, they are up there.
Corrie: What does up there mean?
Meridian City Council
March 17, 1998
Page 15
Szathmary: They could be (inaudible) pounds but still as docile as a forty to fifty
pound one.
Corrie: Okay, any questions?
Rountree: I do have a question. Are you a resident of Meridian as well?
Szathmary: Yes, I am.
Corrie: That's two you get to chase Chief! I will leave to the Council's discretion
would you like to look at an ordinance then and —
Bentley: Mr. Mayor, I think it's something we could look at and as Councilman
Rountree said there's a lot more that we need to deal with on the pet issues of
exotic pets and stuff and it's just something that we're going to have to pick up at
planning and maybe get Nampa's ordinance over here and take a look at it.
Rountree: I agree, I think we go forth with compiling information and looking at
drafting an ordinance that would include this species as well as some of the other
exotics that we're going to be seeing and probably already have in the
community and take it up at a yet to be determined but relatively soon planning
session probably in the next month or two.
Corrie: Okay, that's exactly what we'll do then. Thank you for telling us about pot
belly pigs both of you I appreciate that, we'll go ahead and work on an ordinance
then and sister city and see what they have on that as well. Thank you.
ITEM #9: DEPARTMENT REPORTS:
Smith: Thank you Mayor and Council, first item I just want to pass out a little
activity report of public works for your reading enjoyment at a later date.
(End of tape) That's just kind of a quick summary of what we're doing and where
we are in life at public works department. The first item on the agenda is the Tully
Park agreement with Nampa / Meridan Irrigation District and Wayne reviewed
this for us and had quite a few comments. I think it would be best if I request your
indulgence here and that we put this off at least for one more meeting for your
approval because Wayne did have a lot of questions and I don't think it would be
appropriate for you to deal with it in its present form.
Rountree: If you'd just give an explanation of what the need is.
Smith: The agreement is the pump station operation and maintenance
agreement in Tully Park and it would be an ownership issue with Nampa /
Meridian Irrigation District for that pump station (inaudible) they would own it,
they would operate it and maintain it and they would provide water to Tully Park
Meridian City Council
March 17, 1998
Page 16
from Five Mile Creek and there would also be provision for a later date to provide
water to the Turtle Creek development if it's resurrected.
Rountree: And the resolution of those fees coming to the City is included in the
agreement?
Smith: The fees for the cost of the construction? I don't believe it is. This
agreement did not talk about, that's a good point, but I don't think they did talk
about the cost of the pump station, we need to be sure —
Crookston: -- They did not.
Rountree: We need to recoup that. We need to be the one who receives it not
Nampa / Meridian Irrigation District.
Smith: That's right, yes. This is just my recommendation that we leave this until
next meeting, hopefully we can resolve any issues by that time. I will make note
Councilman Rountree on my comments here to make sure that cost is —
Bentley: Mr. Mayor, I don't have a problem with this but I do have one question to
pose for the two of you there. I know we're still hanging in the wind with Tully
Park's pathways project with Nampa, Mr. Mayor, Boise is working on Federal
Way, they are also doing a pathway project which since I drive on Federal Way
everyday the only place that I can see that they're going to put it is along the New
York Canal, maybe we can get ahold of them and see what kind of agreement
they've got with New York Canal Company and see if some of that or maybe all
of it could apply over here to ironing out the problems that we can't seem to get
solved with these people over here.
Rountree: To that point, I believe our issue with Nampa / Meridian on our
Meridian to Linder bike way is resolved by virtue of the fact of Bureau of
Reclamation accepting what it is we're proposing to do and they're the owners,
Nampa / Meridian are just the operators but we still have to work out some kind
of an agreement with Nampa / Meridian as far as the effort with New York Canal
Company that may provide some information but I doubt it but I would suggest
we get with ACHD and see what kind of agreement they have if any, Larry's right
here he could probably tell us.
Corrie: Oh yeah, Mr. Sale?
Smith: Bureau of Reclamation has ownership of part of that project, part of that
distance but not all of it from Meridian Road northwest to the eastwest center
section line is owned by Bureau of Reclamation north of that eastwest section
borderline is an easement only to the property owners from property owners.
Meridian City Council
March 17, 1998
Page 17
Rountree: And the property owner issue is probably a greater issue than Nampa /
Meridian in terms of getting an easement.
Smith: That's right. We do have a problem with one property owner.
Corrie: Larry would you like to address that?
Sale: Mr. Mayor and Council members, I'm Larry Sale. The pathway along the
Federal Way project is all within the right of way it's going to be upon the bench
above the canal it won't be (inaudible — away from microphone)
Corrie: Okay, thank you. We'll postpone that until the 7t"
Smith: Okay, thank you. The next item I have are the bid results for the City Hall
remodel and I have some additional information that I will pass out to you. I think
the first sheet that you had in your packet the bid results of the two contractors
submitting bids, Beniton Construction from Meridian was the low bidder at
$24, 683.00 the second page of what I just handed out is a breakdown of that bid
and the items that were surprising to all involved in this project was number 6 the
floor covering and number 8 the electrical bid. Those two items alone made up
the amount that the architect had estimated the project to cost. The next two
sheets is a letter from the architect to me at my request they met with the low
bidder, discussed the project and the budget that we have and they have made
several recommendations to reduce the cost of the project. They are asking to
meet with myself and the Mayor and anyone else from the Council that would
want to be involved in this to resolve the situation and I guess that would be my
recommendation at this point because what I did was to take the approved plan
from the architect and put some very abbreviated contract documents with it for
bid and put it out the door. We took out the window frame in the Mayor's office
that would be taken care of by others by the City, we've taken out the counter
that was in there, we cut that up and utilized that in other departments within the
City so there was no demolition there. I guess read through the suggestions by
the architect and those from my standpoint are Mayor and Council decisions that
need to be made before perhaps we want to talk to the contractor or at least
have some thought in mind to meet with the contractor to discuss the price. The
electrical subcontractor has calculated 140 hours to do his electrical work in there
which was a little bit unbelievable by everybody else involved in the project and
he had included the cost to use rigid conduit in which to run his electrical lines
instead he could use that (inaudible) called smurf tube and that's perfectly legal
and allowable and has been used in the rest of City Hall anyway so there are
some cost reductions that can be realized through his bid as well. What you
might want to do to the floor covering as far as future use of the building is a
consideration if you want to maintain the quality of floor covering that we have in
the rest of the City Hall or do something other than that and try to utilize part of
what's there in one office, I think they were talking about the northeast office,
Meridian City Council
March 17, 1998
Page 18
utilize that carpet in place. These are things that we need to consider, meet with
the Contractor, see what kind of cost adjustments are available and then make a
decision on how you want to proceed.
Rountree: Is the Contractor willing to sit down and negotiate some of these?
Rountree: If that's the case my recommendation is push forth with sitting down
with him and the architect and redefining the scope of work and press on with it
we need to get it done.
Bentley: Mr. Mayor, I have a question for counselor. If we're going to scale back
some of the stuff we're going to do, do we take and award this on the lowest bid
and then scale back from there or because we're scaling down do we have to go
back before both of these guys.
Crookston: I think that you can — as long as it's agreeable with the low bidder —
then you can deal with him in any fashion that you desire.
Corrie: Gary, I went in to check that northeast corner office and the carpet is in
pretty good shape really and I think that would probably be a place to start. I
would suggest to the Council that the $25.00 a yard is pretty expensive, I think
that we could probably get that down to $10.00 a yard would be nice, and is that
price installed?
Smith: I assume that it was.
Corrie: I think we could probably look at something at $10.00 a yard I think would
be a lot better so I agree I think we could talk to them and the electrical and the
flooring part so if that would be okay with the Council I'll have Gary get with them
and we'll do this as soon as we can or if they can't —
Smith: Do you want the same committee from the Council to meet, Mayor, and
discuss this negotiation --
Corrie: Who was on that?
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Corrie: Okay that would be fine.
Bird: Mr. Mayor, Gary, can't we award this and lower it by change orders as we
negotiate down, get the thing going, they can get started on some of this stuff
that we can afford? I don't see us ever getting down to the — staying with the
Meridian City Council
March 17, 1998
Page 19
existing plans we're not going to get down to the architects estimate but I think
we can get down to where we can afford it and I think to be legal we have to
award the contract and then we change it by change orders by changing the
description of the carpet, changing the specifications on the conduit —
Smith: If we award the contract and then we can't resolve the change orders —
Bird: --Then we're stuck with it.
Rountree: There's no leverage to go down.
Bird: Well you can just change your specifications I mean if you go down to like
the Mayor said $10.00 a yard carpet you save a lot or if you change
specifications on that, I don't care how you do it but —
Corrie: Mr. Crookston, what's legal on this?
Crookston: I think that you're much better off to work out an agreement on the
total cost to begin with rather than try and do it through change orders.
Corrie: Can we do this within a very short period of time then?
Smith: Yes sir, I'll stay right after it and I would hope that by the end of the week
we should be able to get something finalized on it.
Corrie: I hope so, I'm not going to be here the following week and I'd like to know
what we're doing over there if I could but —
Rountree: If we know a date certain and people are available how much notice
do we need for the Council to come together and decide to award the contract?
Is that a twenty-four, forty-eight hour —
(Inaudible)
Bird: Mr. Mayor, I've got another question then. If we're going to go back and
negotiate with the low guy and we're going to change specifications and stuff I
don't think it's fair to the next guy. In my business if I'm bidding a job and they
change stuff I want a chance to bid again if I wasn't low.
Bentley: And that was where I was heading.
Bird: And that's what Glenn was getting at and I just — I don't know , if you're
going to change specifications and everything you're changing the bid for them
so it has to go out for re -bid and I don't want that. That's why I think you negotiate
— I mean you can wipe out a whole section and get it down with a change order.
Meridian City Council
March 17, 1998
Page 20
Smith: Well I think — I don't know, looking at the cost breakdown I don't know that
there are too many areas that we can mess with, that we can change to reduce
the cost. We are — I don't know, I just have a — in dealing with contracts in the
past it's always more difficult to deal with change orders than it is with a contract
up front where everything's settled up front and sign a contract and —
Anderson: Mr. Mayor, I have a question. Do we have to bid this if we're going to
get the cost of this down below $25,000.00 then it could simply be done with
estimates and doesn't have to go through a formal bid process is my
understanding.
Smith: That's correct.
Corrie: It's there already and that's what he's saying.
Smith: We're just required to get three estimates if we can and that's what we
tried to do going into this thing.
Anderson: Yeah, but at this point we're saying that the bids are all too high, we
can reject them all and go out for simple estimates based on changing the spec.
Bird: I don't think they're too high, the only thing I think, I'm like the Mayor, maybe
some cheaper carpet but there's a lot of work in there, electrical there's a lot of
stuff in there, you've got to come up through in the Mayor's new office you've got
to do a lot of pulling up through the ceiling and dropping down to get in the
existing walls because everything's been exposed. I don't think it's unreasonable,
yeah I hope they can get some stuff out but —
Smith: I don't know Beniton Construction but they do seem to be very informed
and they're very interested.
Bentley: Gary do you have a breakdown of Russell's stuff?
Smith: No, I don't. I didn't get that because he wasn't the low bidder. It wasn't
required in the bid.
Rountree: How about if we do something like this, is the committee get together,
consider what's bid here, tighten up the specs, those specs be handed to the two
responsive people that provided estimates, based on their results we can move
forward. It's not a bidding process it's an estimating process. It appears that the
cost no matter what's going to be less than $25,000.00 but if the architect
believes it's excessive if we can knock a fair amount of money out of the
electrical and maybe that was most of the other guy's costs maybe if there's two
interested maybe we ought to do it that way in fairness to both of them since they
Meridian City Council
March 17, 1998
Page 21
already started working with us and get away from the change order just have it a
lump sum.
Bird: At a remodel you're going to have some change orders anyway because
there's going to be some areas in there that we didn't foresee.
Rountree: Yeah, but those usually go the other way.
Bird: Yeah they usually go up. This we're going to ask for deduction change
orders, I get that every few times too so that's why they always take out first the
glass. (Inaudible) I'm with you Charlie let's let Gary and the two committee
members get back with Beniton and go, is that agreeable with you?
Anderson: Depends on what time of day. If he wants to be here at 8:00 in the
morning and be done by 9:15 that's fine.
(Inaudible)
Corrie: Charlie yours was to drop them both out and then just go by the "what" I
don't quite understand what you mean.
Rountree: Okay Mr. Mayor I'll make a motion that we reconstitute the remodel
committee made up of Councilman Bentley and Anderson and City Attorney
Prior to work with the Public Works Director, resolve the specifications for the
remodel with the architect provide that information to the responsive bidders on
this job and ask for a re -bid.
Corrie: Do I hear a second to that motion?
Anderson: I'll second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Rountree second by Mr. Anderson, further
discussion?
Bird: Mr. Mayor, I don't like that working with both of them, simple fact is
Beniton's break out is sitting right here, they work through, they were low, I think
it's unfair advantage, if you're going to go in and negotiate stuff we take the
apparent low bidder and go do it that way if we're going to do that, if we're going
to throw it back out for open bids then I think we solicit a couple more contractors
to come if we're going to open it back up again then we're back into another
month delay.
Corrie: Mr. Bentley?
Bentley: I agree with Mr. Bird, because if I'm Beniton I'm going to squawk.
Meridian City Council
March 17, 1998
Page 22
Corrie: Okay, any further comments?
Anderson: I disagree with that because if I'm the other contractor I'm going to say
that since you've changed your specification it would have changed my bid
amount and I should be entitled to a re -bid there too so I guess either way it
seems unfair to me that if you exclude the second bidder on this but I do agree
with the fact that if you open this back up to everybody we're going to delay the
project at least another thirty days. I think it's fair in the case where we're not — it
shouldn't be a formal bid it should be an estimate, where it's an estimate then we
open it back up to both of these folks with what changes that we make.
Bird: Yeah, but I think you've got to go through the bidding process though if
you're going to do it you can't just estimate and when you open it back up if
somebody else comes in and bids it then you've go to let them do it Ron. We
can't shut it off and that's the only thing I've got. I think being in this business if I
was Beniton, I was low, I'd expect you to come back and work with me. I can't
see the — I agree with Charlie's motion except that I can't see giving it back — if
you're going to give it back to both of them then you've got to open it back up to
the public again, am I being at a contract and was busy at this time that will come
in here and he might shoot both of them out of the water so I think that these two
people bid this thing in good intentions expecting to get it, there was no value put
to it in the bid it was up to "x" amount of dollars so I think in all fairness that if
we're going to change the stuff and not put it back out for public bid then we get
with Beniton and work the difference out with him because he was low and it's
only fair to him and if we're going to open it up to both of them then we open it
back up to public bid.
Bentley: Mr. Mayor, if I can jog the Council's memory several months back we
went through the same thing with Tully Park, felt the bids were high so we turned
around and re -bid it and some of them didn't bid at all, we wound up paying
$20,000.00 more.
Bird: I don't think this bid is out of line personally.
Corrie: Well if I may, the reason it's out of line is we were given an estimate by
the architect and that's where I think the remainder of the Council feels it's out of
line, we were looking at wow! this is the figure and it's double that so —
Bird: Anytime you get an indoor remodel when you bid the thing you've go to —
you put a little back because you don't know what you're going to run to on each
trade and you're not going to get per square foot the price that you do if you go
out and build a new building but we've got a motion on here to vote on but I just
feel that if we're going to go back and do it, we do it with Beniton or we through it
open to everybody again.
Meridian City Council
March 17, 1998
Page 23
Rountree: Mr. Mayor, I have (inaudible) call question.
Corrie: Okay question's been called for. All in favor of the motion say aye. All
opposed say no. Motion is 3-2 and no so Mr. Bird do you want to make a motion
the other way now?
Bird: Mr. Mayor I'd like to make a motion that Councilman Bentley, Councilman
Anderson, Attorney John Prior and Gary from the Public Works meets with Mr.
Nichols of Beniton Construction and the architect and see if we can't work this bid
down a little lower and work with Mr. Beniton Construction.
Corrie: Okay do I hear a second to that motion?
Bentley: Second.
Corrie: Motion made and seconded. Mr. Bird is the motion and second by Mr.
Bentley, any further discussion?
Bentley: Discussion. Point of order, don't we have to accept this bid before we
can assign somebody to work it over?
Bird: Yeah, you're probably true, I'm probably out of order.
Corrie: Withdraw the second and — (inaudible)
Bird: -- I'll withdraw the motion and make it over. Mr. Mayor I would make a
motion that the Meridian City Council accepts the low bid of Beniton Construction
Company for the City Hall remodel at this time and not to exceed $24,683.00.
Bentley: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bird second by Mr. Bentley, any further discussion?
Rountree: Mr. Mayor, I understand where we're going but I can see that this
piddly little contract is going to be a nightmare for Gary so having said that press
on.
Corrie: No further discussion, all those in favor of the motion say aye. Opposed?
Okay we've got a tie. Gary I'm sorry, I'll help you work with this, I vote yea and
get it on the road here.
MOTION CARRIED: 3 aye, 2 nay.
Smith: Next item I have is an engineer agreement with Keller & Associates for a
Wastewater Treatment Plant, I'll pass a copy of that out to you. This is an
Meridian City Council
March 17, 1998
Page 24
agreement for engineering services for the design and construction or the design
to construct a new screening facility at the (inaudible) station, a new digester
500,000 gallon digester and to do some record drawings for our electrical facility
at the Wastewater Plant. The preamble to this thing the first five pages and I've
got a little sticky note on the service of what they are providing starting on page
6, if you read down through the first part of that exhibit A of what this project
consists of. Our screening facilities at the beginning of the plant is an inclined fine
stream increasing capacity there from 7 to 10 MGD, we have 5 MGD capacity
there now. This would be a build out of that particular unit of process at the plant.
That is it would build out to the capacity that we're constructing this existing plant
to handle. The process logic controller is a computerized plant monitoring system
that would replace the existing (inaudible — too far from microphone) building,
develop a master plan for the electrical system of the plant. This would include all
of the buried conduits (inaudible) because we have a splitter box, there's a
confusion as to what our actual low (inaudible). Update the yard piping that we've
constructed over the years and the last but not least would be to design a half
million gallon primary digester. Also included in these services would be to
investigate a new digester technology that we refer to on the next page as
thermal filling/nestle filling to do with the temperature of the sludge and the
amount of digestion that takes place.
Bentley: Are they running out of words?
Smith: Well, I don't know, I'm not familiar with these myself but they do use a
higher temperature than what we're using in our existing digesters. You can see
by the following the next few pages the number of drawings that are involved in
this thing. It's a big project and they will provide the construction services during
the construction phase, these are going to be on a (inaudible) basis though
because they're just estimating as to how much time they will need to be there.
We will do as much inspection as we can utilizing my department, utilizing John
Shawcroft and his department too so we'll (inaudible) the inspection required by
the consultant if possible. Page 10, where I've got it tabbed again is the cost of
the project as proposed by the engineer and I highlighted it on your sheet. The
lump sum for the pre -design of the design phase is $149,270.00. The phase one
and the phase two, the phase two is (inaudible) that would come along after the
screening facility is constructed and the electrical work is done.
Bird: Gary, is that the electrical work and stuff is this a master plan or is this the
as-built's that he's going to for all the existing electrical and everything so we'll
have a real good master build out there, and while we're on there did we get a
master build set of the new administration building turned in by the contractor?
Smith: I don't know if they turned in a record drawing on that yet or not.
Bird: Okay but this would be great because they're gonna —
Meridian City Council
March 17, 1998
Page 25
Smith: We've had a lot of projects that have been done out there and
unfortunately we haven't had a good handle on the record drawings part of it as
far as what's been constructed, where it is, so for both the electrical and for the
yard piping every time they start a project and start digging they find it but they
find it unfortunately where they shouldn't or where they didn't think it was going to
be. But anyway, Keller has done a good job for us they've been very responsive,
we haven't had problems and if we have had problems they've been very
responsive in getting there and working out the problems and taking care of it.
They're going to bat for us with the contractors, they're not shy about doing it at
all.
Bird: You feel real comfortable with Keller?
Smith: Yeah, both John and I do.
Corrie: Any further questions?
Bird: Mr. Mayor, I make a motion that we accept the agreement for engineering
services from Keller & Associates.
Anderson: Second.
Corrie: Do you want to put the amount in there too?
Bird: Yes I will, for $149,270.00.
Anderson: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bird and second by Mr. Anderson for Keller &
Associates in the amount of $149,270.00 for the fee, any further discussion? All
those in favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: All ayes.
Smith: Council did that authorize the Mayor and City Clerk to sign that
agreement?
Bird: Do I have to make a new motion? I would add that to my motion for the
Mayor to sign and the City Clerk to attest.
Anderson: I would second that.
Corrie: Okay, a new motion to have the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to attest
added to the motion. All those in favor say aye. Opposed no.
Meridian City Council
March 17, 1998
Page 26
MOTION CARRIED: All ayes.
Smith: The next item I have is the 1998 sewer cleaning and TV inspection
project, I'll pass this out. This bid was opened the same day that we opened the
bid on the City Hall remodel and as you can see we had one bidder and this
bidder is Municipal Services Company of Idaho. They are the contractor that's
doing the work for us at this time, they've been doing the work for us all along in
the other phases of our sewer cleaning and TV inspection. We did have two
other plan holders, one was from Boise it was Roto Rooter and the other one
was from Utah I believe, either Utah or Nevada but anyway they had problems
with (inaudible) and Roto Rooter did not choose to bid and John Shawcroft and I
both think that the reason was because Municipal Services is holding their
previous bid (inaudible) and they're considerably less than what the other bidders
have been in the past so the other bidder just did not take any time to submit a
bid, I think they felt they were beat before they walked in the door with
(inaudible). They've been doing quality work for us and so I would recommend to
the Council that we accept their bid and authorize the Mayor and City Clerk to
sign and award the agreement (inaudible).
Bird: Mr. Mayor, I make a motion that we accept the bid from Municipal Services
Company of Idaho for the amount of $93,345.74 and for the Mayor to sign and
for the Clerk to attest.
Bentley: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bird second by Mr. Bentley. Any further discussion
on the motion? All those in favor say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: All ayes.
Smith: Thanks Mayor and Council, last item I have is a budget line item from
Superintendent Shawcroft of the Wastewater Department, he is requesting an
adjustment or a transfer of money from one budget line item to another in order
to facilitate the purchase of a backhoe. I think you all have a copy of his letter I
believe, do you not? I have one (inaudible) —
Bird: Gary has John found a backhoe for the $30,000.00 or is that just the high
he will spend?
Smith: He hasn't indicated to me that he's actually found one but he's been
shopping I know that.
Bird: Let me ask you a question Gary and this is regarding a backhoe but it's off a
deal that's been brought up by other departments that might need to use a
backhoe once in awhile. How many hours will the wastewater use the backhoe?
Meridian City Council
March 17, 1998
Page 27
Smith: In a day?
Bird: Yeah, or you know in a week. I know it's not --
Smith: John indicates to me that it would be used every day. The backhoe would
be used every day. I believe that he wrote that in there.
Bird: Yeah, he did I just — you know there's been some discussion about maybe
other departments being able to use the backhoe for one day or something if the
other one's not — and you know to me that's a feasible cost savings if we can do
that but if it's being used that much —
Smith: We're trying to do that with the Parks and —
Bird: Yeah, that's the department I was thinking about if we could —
Smith: The Water Department and The Park's Department because the Water
Department doesn't use their backhoe all that much but the problem with this — I
guess one of the issues with the backhoe at the Wastewater Plant is what they
use if for. If they've got it in the sludge drying bed and they're scooting the sludge
around the next thing you know it's — that backhoe is smelly, sludgy —
Bird: You don't think the Parks Department would like that?
Smith: I don't know that (inaudible) have it out on the street transporting it
anywhere to do other kinds of work plus the type of material that they're working
with —
Bird: Gary, with this backhoe would you also buy a trailer or do we have a trailer
to tow our backhoes?
Smith: We don't have a trailer yet, the Water Department had talked about buying
one several years ago and they had a line, a really good price on one and we
didn't buy it, we should have.
Bird: Why can't we find a backhoe and a trailer for $30,000.00? 1 think we need
one around here because if we're hauling — you never know when there's going
to be an emergency come out.
Smith: The further out we get with our subdivisions the more difficult it is to road
a backhoe out from the Water Department to the site and it would be better if we
could put it on a trailer and take it to the site.
Bentley: Mr. Mayor, how big is our dump truck?
Meridian City Council
March 17, 1998
Page 28
Smith: They're both the dump truck at the Water Dept. and the one at the
Wastewater Dept. are 5 or 6 yarders, there little ones.
Bentley: Oh they're aren't big enough.
Bird: They can tow though.
Bentley: They can tow but if you've got a big enough dump truck you can throw
the backhoe on the dump truck.
Bird: Oh yea, I agree with you there, but a trailer I think would be — what are you
looking at for one of those trailers?
Smith: Well the one that we messed up on by not getting they wanted $2500.00
for it so it was really a good buy we really messed up on that one.
Bird: Maybe when we look around we can get both of them for a good price.
Anderson: Yeah, I'd say going rate for construction trailers is about $4,000.00 to
$5,000.00.
Bentley: Mr. Mayor, there's been one for sale down off State Street I'll have to go
look, I don't know what size it is or what amount — well, I've seen it it's big enough
I believe for a backhoe, I don't know what the guy's asking but I'll have to when
I'm out cruising see if I can find it.
Smith: That'd be fine, if you could let me know —
Bentley: Yeah let you go out and take a look at it.
Bird: Mr. Mayor, I'll make a motion that we transfer $30,000.00 in the Wastewater
budget from line item #600435.40-73 Wastewater Plant improvements to item
#60-0435.40-76 account POTW new equipment.
Rountree: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bird second by Mr. Rountree for the transfer of
$30,000.00 between the two funds, any further discussion? All those in favor of
the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: All ayes.
Bentley: Mr. Mayor, awhile back we discussed that form that we put together.
Corrie: We have the form and he'll get the appropriate people to sign it.
Meridian City Council
March 17, 1998
Page 29
Bentley: And I'd like to see a copy go to Gary and then I don't know whether you
put a suspense somewhere but so he's got a record. Of course he knows the
Treasurer pretty well so ...
Bird: Can I ask a question here? If he finds something — if he can buy a backhoe
on a trailer at $30,000.00 or under that's okay isn't, I mean it's legal?
Corrie: We've already transferred the money, yes.
Bird: I hope we can Gary, I think a trailer would be very — maybe Glenn can go
down and look at that one.
Rountree: If you could find a utility tractor that would go along with that that would
be very helpful as well. You might get lucky!
Bird: The Park's Department pays for that though.
Bentley: Mr. Mayor, how is the repair doing or is it done out at the sewer plant
that broke?
Smith: Well the necessary measures to stabilizing the (inaudible) have been
taken and they're in place (inaudible) the contractor is proceeding with his work
to extend the (inaudible). The wall that failed and fell was scheduled to be
removed anyway as part of the project so it's gone and it's not going to be
replaced and it was just unfortunate the way it went down but luckily --. They did
in my report that I handed out first I did want you to all know the great job that
Shawcroft and his troops did but the good response that we got from contractors
and also from our neighboring cities, they helped out (inaudible). They did a great
job.
Corrie: Good, thank you Gary. Mr. Chief Gordon?
Gordon: Now that the press is gone, the comment by the unnamed councilman is
no problem I've been called worse, as far as pot belly pigs you guys' officers
already carry lead halters in the trunk and lariat's in the trunk we'll just add a
bucket to the equipment and go get some training on how to use it, I've never
heard that routine but we have room for a bucket.
Bentley: Well Chief I want to tell you, you can't believe how fast a pig can run
backwards.
Gordon: (Inaudible) a pig farmer once and how he did that I'll check tomorrow
and see how he got him into that little pickup.
Meridian City Council
March 17, 1998
Page 30
Bentley: Food, (inaudible) donuts and coffee.
Gordon: How did I know that was coming. I think in this case we may name him.
I'm not really sure what I'm doing here I'll have counselor bring this up he's the
one that (inaudible) I didn't see where there was a problem. I gave all the council
this breakdown in January, did a budget adjustment for the existing building and
also for the new trailer. I think the comment or the problem is in the motion that
was made for the budget adjustment. (Inaudible)
Crookston: Thank you Mayor and Councilmen, the motion that was made at the —
I think on the March 3rd meeting was to have a budget adjustment of $24,930.00
but what we were talking about was entering into an agreement for the two
trailers and that was not done because the cost of those trailers is approximately
thirty-two thousand and some odd dollars so I think that we need one motion to
enter into the lease for the two trailers and the lease amount is $32,490.00, what
that amounts to is $24,480.00 for $1020.00 per month payment for the two
trailers plus there is an $8,010.00 set up and take down fee for a total of
$32,490.00 that was not discussed.
Corrie: What page are you on, on the March 3rd — (end of tape)
Crookston: -- But the lease says that there are two trailers, that's the way the
lease is worded.
Anderson: How can there be two?
Crookston: Well I think that —(inaudible)
Anderson: If they're not put together they don't make — they're one unit, two
halves brought together and you have to lease half and half?
Gordon: No sir.
Anderson: I didn't think so.
Gordon: Counselor is reading the lease where they're charging for each half and
I have a registered letter from Capital Mortgage who leased us the building that
said that's not correct that two halves make one building, all they're leasing is
one building, one structure but it's listed by serial number as A and B on the
lease and that's where the counselor is. Dave said that that's not the way it is.
read it that that's not the way it is but there's still an issue.
Bird: I've never heard of that Bill have you?
Gordon: I haven't either, no sir.
Meridian City Council
March 17, 1998
Page 31
Bird: I mean and they're not complete if they're not put together and then it's one.
Gordon: Correct, you can't use half.
Anderson: My question then is on this sheet that you just handed out Police Chief
Gordon is says costs for 1998 including the above which includes that $8,000.00
it looks like to me is $24,930.00.
Gordon: Yes sir it is.
Anderson: So that does include the $8,000.00 set up fee?
Gordon: Yes sir it does, the only thing I see here is I believe the motion was
made for the lease of the trailer to be $24,930.00 and that's not correct. The
lease for the trailer would be the six months at $1000.00 which is $6120.00, the
tear down fee of $8,010.00, we're talking $14,000.00 here.
Anderson: $14,130.00.
Gordon: Yes sir. The $10,800.00 is for the $1800.00 that was not put in my
budget for the lease on Pine Street.
Bird: That was a six-month lease that you have paid out of your budget?
Gordon: Correct, I have already paid that and I added it in and I think the motion
was made for $24,000.00 for the lease of the trailer which would make that a
technical issue, I think that's what the counselor is referring to.
Bird: That was a technical. I think Ron made the motion.
Rountree: I think I might have. One of us are the guilty party but the intent was to
cover the cost of the lease of the facility on Pine and the six months in set up
costs for the modular.
Gordon: Yes sir that was my understanding.
Rountree: Which is the $24,930.00.
Crookston: Well Mr. Mayor and Council, I think that the way the lease reads it is
for the $1020.00 per month for both of the trailer units plus the $8010.00 for the
set up and take down which totals thirty-two thousand something.
Gordon: No sir, (inaudible) from the manufacturer stating that that's not true.
Anderson: Six thousand and eight thousand is fourteen thousand.
Meridian City Council
March 17, 1998
Page 32
Crookston: All I'm saying is what the lease says, I don't' care what they're telling
you, I'm reading the lease if they want to put together a lease that says what
they're doing then that's fine but the way you read the lease it says $1020.00 per
month and then it says $8,010.00 set up and take down, that roughly is
$32,490.00.
Bird: Mr. Mayor, the lease says $1020.00 for the unit —
Crookston: -- You're not looking at the lease.
Bird: No, I'm saying what you're saying. You're saying the lease is $1020.00 per
month okay that's the $6120.00 for the six months and then the $8,000.00 tear
down that's $14,000.00 what we didn't do is we didn't word it right. We should
have come in with $14,130.00 for the lease and installation of the building and
then we should have had another motion to cover the $10,800.00 for the East
Pine lease that he's already expended, am I not right there Wayne?
Crookston: I think that that's probably correct, I'd have to read it and look at it
again but you were confusing what has been previously paid or budgeted for the
Pine Street property with what was being done on the lease for the two trailer
units.
Bird: Yeah, we should have split them up and we put them together.
Crookston: That's right.
Bird: Now what do we have to do, make a motion to adjust — was that in your
budget Chief because the $10,800.00 was not in your budget okay so you need a
motion for a budget adjustment of $10,800.00?
Gordon: Yes sir.
Bird: And then we need another budget adjustment for $14,130.00. Wait a minute
— Will what have you got?
Berg: Well personally I think you have one line item that you're making a lease
office space so you have one line item that didn't exist before. I don't think it
exists currently in your budget so you need a line item adjustment to put both
those amounts into this line item.
Anderson: That's what we did.
Berg: But then you also have to have a motion to approve this lease agreement
for however much money it is separately.
Meridian City Council
March 17, 1998
Page 33
Crookston: I think that that's correct Will. You're confusing the lease with a
budget adjustment and they have to be differentiated.
Bentley: Yeah but Wayne don't we — you got me so — okay I see what you're
talking about we've got to make it a budget adjustment for $24,930.00 then we
come back and approve the lease for $14,130.00 for the lease, now am I right
and then that lease is just taken out of the $24,930.00, well then our motion that
Charlie made in February 3rd is okay, now all we have to do is approve the lease,
we've already approved the money.
Anderson: But we mis-worded that by saying that we didn't make it a budget
adjustment we said it was for the lease and it's not all for that lease.
Corrie: Then if you make a new motion to cover that —
Bentley: (Inaudible) it's covering the lease for the Idaho property and it's covering
the lease for the Pine property.
Anderson: But in our motion we stated it was only for the lease of the modular we
didn't state it as —
Bentley: Oh did we?
Corrie: Then you can make a new motion to correct the other one.
Bentley: I make a motion that we do a line item adjustment for the 217 E. Pine
Street lease for the Police station for six -months in the amount of $10,800.00 and
Crookston: -- Excuse me, when you say are you taking that out or are you putting
it in?
Bentley: If you'd let me finish you'd know.
Crookston: Thank you.
Corrie: Go ahead Mr. Bentley.
Bentley: That money is to be put in as a budget transfer to the Police Department
budget and also we need to transfer the amount of $14,130.00 into the Police
budget to cover the lease for six months of the new building with set up and tear
down in the same line item for a total of $24,930.00.
Meridian City Council
March 17, 1998
Page 34
Bird: I will second that.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bentley second by Mr. Bird, is there a discussion
now?
Rountree: Question. Point of clarification, the money for that budget adjustment
is the money that is received that paid off the City's portion of payment towards
the police grant.
Bentley: That's correct.
Corrie: Question has been called for. All those in favor of the motion as stated
say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: All ayes.
Corrie: Okay then when you come out for the next year you put it in your budget
for —
Gordon: I will budget (inaudible)
Bentley: Mr. Mayor, we now need a motion to approve the lease.
Corrie: That's correct.
Bentley: Chief, what is the total of the lease so I get it right. Is that $14,130.00?
Gordon: Yes sir.
Bentley: Does that include the set-up fee?
Gordon: Yes, set up and tear down.
Bentley: Mr. Mayor I would move that we approve the lease for the new annex for
the Police station in the amount of $14,130.00, authorize the Mayor to sign and
the Clerk to attest.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bentley second by Mr. Bird. Any discussion on the
motion? Hearing none. All those in favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: All ayes.
Corrie: Mr. Crookston do you have a resolution?
Meridian City Council
March 17, 1998
Page 35
Crookston: Thank you, yes I have two more items that I'd like to bring up. The
Cherry Lane local improvement district, we need to know how we're going to fund
the money for that. What will be the source of funds?
Bird: Does that come out of general fund, I hate to be so ignorant but I think it
does.
Crookston: It probably does but I think that it's been budgeted, Will do you know
whrere that — have funds been set aside or what was your thinking on where
those monies would come from to pay for that?
Berg: My thinking of where the money was coming from was not thinking it was a
pretty fast and rush decision that we plug in something for incoming and
something for outgoing so as far as any funds coming from that no there wasn't
any funds coming from any kind of LID the first year because we have to wait for
a full — unless somebody sells a property — but we'd have to wait for a full tax
year before we got funds from that.
Crookston: We could fund it by means of obtaining a loan. We could fund it by
means of trying to pass a bond issue on it but the people there had said that if we
didn't get it done within ninety days they would just a soon drop the whole thing.
Anderson: I don't blame them, how long has this went on?
Crookston: Two years.
Bird: I think — I'm up for a loan unless it's inner departments and I'm certainly not
for a bond, this is a five year payback as I understand it Mayor?
Corrie: That's right.
Bird: How much are we talking about?
Rountree: $49,000.00
Bird: $49,000.00? And it wasn't budgeted anywhere that you know of and it's
been passed for two years?
Rountree: No it's been —
Bird: When was it passed?
Corrie: It was passed about six months ago wasn't it?
Meridian City Council
March 17, 1998
Page 36
Rountree: No, it's been longer than that but it hasn't been — it's been one
complete budget cycle and part of another it's kind of in between.
Bird: Charlie what can we do? I mean it's not fair to these people, they went out
and passed an LID and we've got to come up with the money.
Rountree: Well we did the LID — which they have to pay back —
Bird: They pay it back but we've got to come up with it in front to award the
contract and get the thing going.
Rountree: The problem with our budget is it is in the budget it's on both sides in
the line and has a total payback within one year so we're whatever the one year
payment is to the good but we're short four years of back payments in terms of
balancing on both sides of the line.
Bird: Can these funds come out of enterprise or do they have to stay with the
taxation Gary? Can we borrow it?
Smith: I guess you could borrow from the Enterprise Fund just like we did when
we bought the park property from Vern Otter but the Enterprise Fund charges
interest.
Bird: Well we're getting interest on our LID aren't we, a five year payback?
Rountree: No.
Bird: We don't get interest?
Crookston: I think that we do.
Rountree: It's factored into that $49,000.00 —
Crookston: I don't think that that's true. The $49,000. 00 is a principle amount.
Bird: We will actually in five years receive more than $49,000.00 1 hope with
interest.
Crookston: I hope so to.
Rountree: Well I don't have the language of the LID —
Bird: I don't either, I don't know what the —
Smith: I don't know what it says either, all I know is —
Meridian City Council
March 17, 1998
Page 37
Bird: But most of the time don't LID's or any of these things you pay interest,
right?
Smith: Well as I understand it there's an interest factored into it for the period of
time that the LID exists.
Bird: That's what I thought.
Smith: Right. If it's written, like Shari said if it's written that way that's correct. I
don't know —
Bird: Who would have that LID?
Smith: Well I've got a copy of it in my file if you want me to run over and get it.
Bird: No, let's look it up, but I think it's something I don't know about the other
councilmen but I think it's something that we've got to get on for these people,
mean they pass this thing and we've got to get going for it.
Rountree: I guess I'll just throw this out — I think it's a moot point. I think when we
put it out for bid we're going to find that it can't be done for that amount anyway
so by virtue of that process it's going to go away. I agree with Keith though we
probably ought to advance it and I guess if we have to set up a loan from the
Enterprise Fund to pay for it at the end of the year if we don't balance we can do
that otherwise we look at carry over monies to apply towards that and then have
those revenues paid back whether it's Parks, Police or Public Works or wherever.
We did make a commitment to those folks to at least try. I think that they're also
aware that there's probably not enough money to do the project and I don't think
it will come as any great surprise to them if that happens but I think we ought to
get it out to bid and get going on it and take our lumps and learn from this the
next time we do an LID that we look at both sides of the line when we do our
budgeting and the anticipated payback and the cost. That's something that I think
we haven't done enough of and it just budgeted as a portion and it really doesn't
work that way.
Bird: Well I think you know our City we've been very fortunate and been very
conservative and haven't had to go into these much so we don't know anything
about them and like Charlie says it's something we learn but I would make a
motion Mr. Mayor that we proceed on with this LID, get it prepared to go out for
bids and get some bid results back —
Corrie: If it is for $49,000.00 then —
Bird: The bid's not to exceed $49,000.00.
Meridian City Council
March 17, 1998
Page 38
Rountree: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bird second by Mr. Rountree on the LID not to
exceed $49,000.00 and go out for bid. Any further discussion? All those in favor
of the motion say aye. Denied no.
MOTION CARRIED: All ayes.
Crookston: The other item I had is in trying to work with Boise State on the old
sewer treatment plant, I'm trying to work out an agreement with Amanda Horton
who is the attorney for Boise State and her question to me was would the City be
willing to let Boise State continue to use that site for an additional ten years?
Anderson: Is this the Water Department?
Crookston: It's the Water Dept. now.
Rountree: What kind of revenues does that generate?
Crookston: At this (inaudible) it generates no revenue.
Corrie: Absolutely none.
Smith: A dollar a year I think —
Crookston: One dollar.
Rountree: What's the cost to the City to have them there? Do we have to buy
them out if they leave because of the improvements they've made there?
Smith: We're talking about the lineman college out in the back. They're just using
ground out there to plant their poles and pull their wire and set their transformers
and that sort of thing.
Bird: Don't they also have some people in the office in there?
Smith: Well right, yes they do, they have a classroom and then a building that
they use, correct.
Bird: And is that — what kind of liability Gary does this entertain to us?
Smith: That's a question that ICRMP had raised to Will and that was one reason
why Wayne was working with Boise State to get a lease agreement panned out
that would address the liability issue because ICRMP had raised that to Will on
their —
Meridian City Council
March 17, 1998
Page 39
Berg: It needs to be zero liability to the City for them to use it and that's what they
want in that agreement.
Bird: Will can't they do that by just giving us a certificate of insurance but through
their insured.
Berg: They need to do that each year. That also needs to be part of the
agreement, we have not got the property deeded over to us yet.
Crookston: That's correct, that's what we're trying to work out right now.
Corrie: So in other words if they deed the property to us and we get an
agreement BSU each year on the agreement for the next five years they will
agree to hold us harmless and use their certificate of insurance then we can go
with that procedure is that what they're asking?
Crookston: Yes, but they asked for ten years.
Corrie: Oh ten years.
Rountree: What's the deed arrangement, they own property out there then?
Smith: I don't believe so I think we have the property back don't we Wayne?
Crookston: No, they have not issued a deed back to us at this time that's why
we're having the problem.
Rountree: Is getting the deed conditioned on whether or not we agree to lease it
for ten years?
Crookston: Lease it to them for ten years?
Rountree: Yeah.
Crookston: They have asked — they have — we haven't discussed the lease at
least Amanda Horton has not discussed the lease I have mentioned it to her, she
hasn't talked about it recently but I thing that we need to get the property back
and lease it to them with a requirement that they hold us harmless and give us a
certificate of insurance for all liability.
Corrie: Otherwise I think we're going to have a real donny brook on our hands
because they had that first. We gave it to them and then they didn't use it for a
year and then we said okay since you didn't use it for a year then we get it back
and —
Meridian City Council
March 17, 1998
Page 40
Crookston: -- which the initial agreement was.
Corrie: -- but they were a little reluctant so they moved most of that out to the
Canyon County campus but they left the pole riders there so —
Bird: Charlie is there any problem with a ten year lease to them? Gary do you
see anything wrong with a ten year?
Smith: Yes sir. If we continue to grow at the rate we've been growing we're going
to need that extra space.
Rountree: Five maybe?
Corrie: I would suggest it just go for five myself, I don't know about the Council
but —
Rountree: That was my thought before you mentioned that is that I think five is a
maximum and maybe even two years at a time.
Smith: That might be better to shorten up the time period just as much as we can
because of the growth that we're experiencing and the additional staff that we're
going to have to put on and you know we can still move around and expand in
the facilities that we're in without utilizing that classroom without utilizing the yard
area but if we continue to grown and it seems like every time we put somebody
on we buy a pick-up that takes up more space and —
Corrie: They want ten we could say two and a half and compromise at five or we
can say five and compromise at five. I think they're helping as much as they can.
Smith: Yes I think that's the intent Mayor that we want to work with BSU as much
as we can because we do as Mayor said it was a bit of a strain on them when we
said we'd like the facility back and they had to move because that was, like
Wayne said, that was part of that agreement that we signed on in the very
beginning when that building was built but in good faith with Boise State we
wanted the Council at the time this move was made wanted to work closely with
them and allow them to utilize that facility as much as possible.
Crookston: What the initial agreement stated was that they quit using that
property for sewer operator training then it would come back to the City of
Meridian and it quit being used for that purpose for over a year.
Smith: That's correct.
Meridian City Council
March 17, 1998
Page 41
Bird: Well how did they get the deed? Was it their property, I always thought it
was our property?
Crookston: It was, but we --
Bird: And then we deeded it to them?
Smith: Apparently we had to do that in order for the state to pay the cost of
constructing the facility, I don't know.
Crookston: I don't know why that was done but we did deed it to them without
any charge.
Bird: I would think Boise State would deed it back to us. But it's holding up we
need some lot work done out there.
Smith: We're going to go ahead and do the improvements to the parking area in
front of the park and also to the back of the where the Water Dept. is putting their
vehicles. We're also going to impact a little bit of the area where the poles are
being set now by the school for their work with a detention pond for the storm
water but they've looked at the plan they've agreed to work within it and so it's
going to be constructed as designed but we do have a drainage problem there as
you've probably noticed by going in and out of that facility and we're trying to
rectify that plus provide some parking for the use of that park.
Bird: Have you discussed the deed with them lately?
Crookston: That's what Amanda Horton and I were talking about was I requested
the deed as it was initially agreed on that they would deed it back to the City and
then she raised the question that they wanted to use it she start out initially with
twenty years.
Rountree: I guess Mr. Mayor my recommendation is tell Amanda Horton that the
deal was it would come back to the City when they meet the terms and
conditions of their original agreement then we'll entertain leasing the lineman
school back to them but until such time as that gets done it may become a legal
battle because I don't think I want to be or have the City held hostage to that so
we have to enter into that lease. I don't mind working with them but Tom
McGregor understood that was the deal, Tom's gone but that was understood
that's part of the agreement I'd say we're willing to enter into that agreement
upon the resolution of the deed. When we know that's resolved we'll sit down
with them and we'll look at working with them to provide them a space for
lineman school whether it's there or maybe even at another location we may
acquire at some point and time. I think with their push towards Canyon County
Meridian City Council
March 17, 1998
Page 42
campus with starting building here in the next year that they're (inaudible) in that
direction real soon anyway.
Crookston: I asked Amanda whether of not this was something that they could
move over to Canyon County and she said at the time that they'd that's one thing
that she dropped from the twenty years back to the ten.
Rountree: So, I mean that would be my position, let's get one thing done at a
time without being hog tied into something we don't necessarily agree to.
Bird: I agree with you Charlie. I hate to be held hostage by anybody over
something like that when the original agreement was to come back to us I don't
think I'd even talk about leasing it back to them until I got the deed back to us. I'm
like you Charlie, I think that's enough.
Rountree: I agree. Do we need a motion to that affect?
Corrie: You can or you can take it to them and see what they say.
Crookston: I would say let me take it to them.
Corrie: I would suggest you take it to them first because once you put it into
motion and make it a (inaudible) then that's pretty final. You can but I think that
with the agreement of all of the Council, is that yours as well? Okay that's
agreement of the Council maybe we'll back it up with an ordinance (inaudible).
Crookston: Okay thank you that's all I have.
Corrie: Do you want to do the resolution?
Crookston: Oh, yes I do.
Corrie: Resolution #166.
Bird: What number Mayor?
Corrie: #166. This is the one I brought up last meeting the Agreement of
Understanding, The Memorandum of Understanding, the APA has adopted that
memorandum and they are just now asking for each entity to accept the
Memorandum of Agreement and their resolution. The resolution proving the
Memorandum of Agreement among Treasure Valley governmental agencies on
their application of intelligent transportation system and providing for an effective
date.
Meridian City Council
March 17, 1998
Page 43
Bentley: Mr. Mayor I move we approve resolution #166 and authorize the Mayor
to sign and the Clerk to attest.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bentley second by Mr. Bird to approve resolution
#166, any further discussion? Hearing none, all in favor of the motion say aye.
ROLL CALL VOTE: Mr. Bird — yea, Mr. Bentley — yea, Mr. Rountree — I abstain,
Mr. Anderson — yea.
MOTION CARRIED: 3 yeas, 1 abstain.
Corrie: If you can get me a copy of that I'll send it on to the APA Board.
Bird: I don't have anything, we've covered it all pretty good.
Bentley: I've got two things I've passed out tonight, animal control revenue, as
you can see on the one sheet contains the dollars, in 1998 we've got 9675 and
some change compared with the entire year of FY '97 where we only had 14608,
licenses in '97 we had 2131 for the year as of '98 right now we've done 1219 so I
think our fee increase is working, we haven't tried to even calculate out what
we're going to generate out of this but this is in hopes as we set it up this way
was to help fund or possibly totally fund the dog warden program and sometime
along the way we need to take a look how and if and what we want to do with
that dog pound out there, the building itself. As I stated before we looked at trying
to get Job Core but they don't do the type of work we need done anymore and I
think we're almost going to be better off just to erect a new building instead of
trying to work over that one there and expand it. Do they have modular pounds
Chief?
Gordon: No.
Bentley: Secondly, Mr. Crookston passed out a letter he received from the Union
Attorney for the Fire Department stating that they didn't think we should have
gone through and revamped the basic agreement that we had already agreed on.
The Fire Department knew going in, they even admitted going in, that the
tentative agreement before we started signing off on articles had to be approved
by the joint group of the City Council, both the City Council and the full Rural Fire
District. I don't know where he's getting this information from or how it's coming
about but it's the same process that what their part of the agreement that they
totally agreed upon they have to take back to their rank and file and they vote on
it, if they turn it down we go back and meet and fix what they don't like, or try to.
The same principle holds true on the management side they have the same
rights and the rights were excersized, the Union tried to get us to have the two
Meridian City Council
March 17, 1998
Page 44
units get together and vote on this because they wanted to enact part of the
contract that was tentatively agreed upon, both the City Council and the Rural
Fire District said no they wanted an entire contract before they'd implement
anything and that was taken back to them too so I don't really see what the jest of
their letter is, I mean it's things that they agreed upon at the very beginning so for
the new councilmen that brings them up to speed as to where we're at from that.
I guess (inaudible) they'd like to sit down and discuss the wage package which is
fine but they also need to make if they have a problem with the rest of the articles
of the contract they need to sit down and discuss them, Councilman Anderson
and myself made it very clear to them that they take the time to review it and
when they were ready sit down, if they had some problems with it to get back
with us, we have not heard a thing until this letter showed up so that's where
we're at there.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor, question regarding that is it appropriate at this time for the
City to respond to this letter and say, reiterate what Glenn said in terms of it
taking the full body to approve and/or consider the terms and conditions and
articles of this agreement and that it's been offered to them in hopes that we
would strike a dialogue and to this point that hasn't happened.
Crookston: I will respond to it because the letter was sent to me and I will
respond in that fashion but I wanted the Council to know what position at least
they were inquiring about.
Corrie: Well if need be we can always get the tapes dictated.
Bentley: And I want to state one thing that if we do wind up at hearing I believe
it's the 2nd not the 4t", the 4t" is a Saturday.
Crookston: It's the 2nd
Bentley: Is it going to be the 2nd and the 3rd or just the 2nd or do we know?
Crookston: That I have no idea about.
Bentley: I will need a suppoena as before and I would strongly urge that we may
have to have Marty there and Brad Janicek might have to be there too and we
wind up getting Ron Tolsma there, we may have to have the whole original crew
and maybe the new team too before it's over with especially if some of these
issues are brought up that were stated in that letter.
Crookston: That may very well be the case I have no idea how Brad Janicek was
involved in it and Mr. Johnson, wasn't he on the rural board prior?
Meridian City Council
March 17, 1998
Page 45
Corrie: Charlie was on the Board but he was not on the negotiating team, Brad
and Marty were.
Anderson: Question for the Counselor, Wayne I was just wondering what you
thought about if I was to make a phone call to Alan Hurshfield and explain to him
the process that we went through with the City and Rural and why some of the
language changes came about in an interest to try and get these folks back to
the bargaining table.
Crookston: I don't think that it would be wise for you to do it on your own, I can
ask him if he would be willing to sit down with you and I and have you explain
what was done, that would be fine but I don't think it's appropriate for you to call
him by yourself.
Bentley: Mr. Mayor, first off we don't negotiate with their attorney, they have set a
procedure up to negotiate with their negotiating team, he is not part of their
negotiating team nor would I sit down and negotiate with him. I was still the lead
negotiator in this and we made the ground rules very clear, they would not allow
observers in there, I wanted to have an observer in there for training purposes,
it's done in other Union negotiations and they didn't want any part of it and I'm not
about to have that attorney sit down at the negotiating table.
Anderson: I'm not suggesting negotiating with their attorney, he seems to be
giving them legal advice on what to do I'm just suggesting explain to him what
went on to try to get him to advise them to come back to the table with us.
Bentley: Well they've requested to come back to the table on the wage issue and
that's fine but they need to come back — if they are requesting to come back to
discuss the wages we can sit down and discuss the wages, we have a legal
obligation to do that otherwise we're going to be sitting with an unfair labor
practice but the problem too is they need to address the rest of the issues if
they've got heartburn with the rest of the stuff they need to let us know and you
and I made that point very clear to them that if they need to have some
discussions on the other articles we're more than willing to sit down.
Anderson: Well I guess I would suggest then that we respond to their negotiating
team and say that we're in receipt of Mr. Hurshfield's letter and we would like to
get together to discuss wages and the agreement.
Bentley: Correct.
Corrie: Based upon their earlier conversations with the team. They knew that we
would not accept until the Council and the District accepted that — the wording
and not until then, they just signed off with what they had put together but we
didn't sign off on it.
Meridian City Council
March 17, 1998
Page 46
Crookston: That's correct.
Bird: Mr. Mayor, what are they hung up on these audits for? I mean their salary,
benefits or nothing has anything to do with the audits, I mean they're just —
Corrie: They want us to show that we can't afford to give them any more money
but by their own attorney's admission they are negotiating equally with the City as
well as the Rural District and we all know the financial status of the Rural District
and so do they because they already have their audits so their point of view is
that we take and pay more of the rural side, well that's not the way the
negotiations are because we have an agreement with the rural to be fifty-fifty and
that's just the end of the situation.
Bird: Well I think they think they get into the Enterprise Funds.
Corrie: There's no question about it, it's none of their business really.
Bird: That's right, that's the way I look at it Mayor.
Bentley: So Mr. Mayor, we need to draft up a letter, send it certified mail and we'll
take a copy over to the Union at the Fire Station and let them know we're willing
to come back and set up a time.
Corrie: I think we can have Mr. Crookston write up the letter.
Crookston: I don't think that it needs to go by certified mail I will send a letter to —
Corrie: -- This wasn't certified.
Crookston: No, it wasn't certified. That's a letter to me and I will explain to him
what the City desires to do.
Bentley: Okay that will work for me.
Crookston: If that's what the Council wants to do.
Bentley: Well I think it's what the negotiating team wants to do if there's more
negotiating that needs to be done then we need to get the teams together.
Bird: Yeah but you wouldn't go to Hurshfield would you? You'd want your letter to
go to whoever's the head of the business agent or the president of the Union.
Crookston: Well my letter will go to Mr. Hurshfield —
Meridian City Council
March 17, 1998
Page 47
Bird: Yeah, you can do that but I mean our negotiating committee should draft a
letter and get it like Glenn's saying to the Union so that Ron and Glenn and the
Rural District can sit down with them.
Anderson: I almost feel like there should be two letters Wayne should respond to
Mr. Hurshfield and then —
Bird: He can respond to Alan Hurshfield but you guys should respond to the
Union themselves, the negotiating team.
Anderson: And maybe just a simple letter stating that you guys have had this
agreement in your hand for however many weeks now and we would like to get
back together with you and discuss it, what would be a convenient time for you?
Bentley: And that's it, something real simple. So Mr. Mayor if you could put that
together and —
Corrie: You put it together.
Bentley: Okay.
Corrie: Then give it to me and I'll get it typed and send it out.
Bentley: Okay, I'll slide in here in the morning and beat on your computer.
Corrie: Okay, or you can just write it out in long hand and give it to the secretary
and she can print it out and then for your edification.
Bentley: I'd better print it if I write it.
Corrie: Okay, then Mr. Crookston you'll do your letter to him based upon what
you heard tonight.
Crookston: Yes I will.
Corrie: Is that agreeable to the Council? Mr. Bird — yes, Mr. Bentley — yes, Mr.
Rountree — yes, Mr. Anderson — yes.
Bentley: One more point, where are we at with the appraisal?
Rountree: Very interesting topic, in both to Wayne's and my surprise, one they're
hard to come by, two they're awfully busy and three they're darned expensive.
The first people we talked to talked what about three or four months? The second
people we talked to —
Meridian City Council
March 17, 1998
Page 48
Crookston: They talked about two months minimum.
Rountree: --Two to three months minimum, the second group we talked to was
$4500.00, we have an outfit that says they can do it —was that the two to three
weeks and it's going to cost around $2500 to $3000 to get it done. Wayne can tell
me if he's got them going or not.
Crookston: I talked to this individual his name is Eric Alberti and he told me that
he could do it for $3000 he could get it done in two weeks, another appraiser told
me that he could do it for $2500 but it would take four to six weeks. I had talked
to Charlie earlier about the $2500 thing and he said well we need to get it done
quicker than that and that we would spend more money than that, that's when I
talked to Mr. Alberti who told me he could get it done in two weeks for $3000 so I
told him that we'd better get it done.
Rountree: So we'll have that by the end of the month?
Crookston: He told me two weeks.
Bentley: So it's under way then.
Crookston: I told him to go ahead and do it.
Corrie: Let's get Council for the $3000 though.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor I would move that we authorize the expenditure of three
thousand dollars for the appraisal of the joint ownership property between the
City of Meridian and the Rural Fire District.
Bentley: Second.
Crookston: Okay, that's paid by the City of Meridian?
Rountree: Paid by the City of Meridian.
Bird: What location Charlie?
Rountree: There is only one location.
Bird: Just the one location?
Rountree: Yes, it's lots 1,2,3,4 and 5 of block 2 of the original Meridian town site.
Meridian City Council
March 17, 1998
Page 49
Corrie: Okay you've heard the original motion with the addition there by Mr.
Crookston by Mr. Rountree and second by Mr. Bird, any further discussion on the
motion? All those in favor say aye. No?
MOTION CARRIED: All ayes.
Bentley: I be done.
Corrie: Okay, Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: We've seen the words for the plaques, have the plaques been
delivered to Lila, Terry, Malcolm and Keith Borup for regio sprinter and —
Bird: They have been delivered?
Corrie: We've got — tomorrow we're having them printed up on the walnut
plaques, one for Mr. Malcolm McCoy and Mr. Terry Smith and Keith Borup, they
have an 8x10 and a 6x8 for Lila Hill and one for Keith Borup.
Bird: Are you going to present them then April 7t" Mayor?
Corrie: Right.
Bird: Good.
Rountree: Shari what's the status of any work towards getting the irrigation
ordinance pulled together? — One of those deals huh?
Stiles: I think if we've got — Wayne do we have to have that go before Planning &
Zoning, we do don't we? Because in the zoning and subdivision ordinance —
Crookston: If it's in the zoning and development ordinance yes we do.
Stiles: We could get that scheduled for next month.
Rountree: Please. — You're committed.
(End of Tape)
Stiles: -- at P & Z next month.
Rountree: I believe the status on the mechanical ordinance update or resolution
you have the information you got to get it noticed in the next few days so it can
by part of the public hearing next meeting hopefully on the 7t", let's get 'er done
because we've got to have that if affect by the first of the year or sooner.
Meridian City Council
March 17, 1998
Page 50
Bird: Will you make a motion to that Charlie? Don't we need a motion?
Rountree: No, we need a motion on the ordinance when it comes before us for
the modification of fees. Generations Plaza committee met yesterday afternoon,
the consensus of that group was to press on with the project as planned, there's
continual discussion about buying the adjacent property and the ultimate
discussion is that it's probably going to cost additional $100,000 and probably
mean another year delay. The group's consensus was press on with the project,
there's some difficulty yet with the architect that was going to be resolved today
or tomorrow and if it's non-responsive then we will press on with our own
resources to able to put the plans together so they can go to bid. There was also
consensus of that group to utilize the Meridian Historic Foundation as the
recipient of any monies that people were hesitant to just give to the City but could
go to that foundation as a 5031 CXYZ tax break deal, there apparently are some
people out there that are willing to put money into one of those for this project,
they're not willing to donate it to the City so that's been set that's going to be
bounced off of the Meridian Historical Foundation that the Generation's Plaza
group is also pursuing an establishment of a foundation for these kinds of things
and other things for the City of Meridian that would be some kind of incorporated
group that would serve as a recipient of donations for the City of Meridian so
that's another activity that they're going to pursue.
Berg: Who's the contact person for that foundation —
Rountree: Lori — oh for the Park's —
Berg: -- the historical.
Rountree: Historic? Terry Smith is on that board.
Berg: I just wondered if somebody inquires and they need to know — or apply or
direct — through Terry Smith.
Rountree: Through Terry and I believe Lori knows the details of that as well.
Question came up last evening at the Parks and Recreation Commission about
the establishment of fees for the summer rec program. The summer rec program
is going to be expanded somewhat this year we're going to have some adult
softball and maybe some other adult activities as you will recall last year we
expanded the program, activities way exceeded the monies that were
established in the budget for them the activities were set up to pay for
themselves which they did. The question came up does the Council establish
those fees do we have a presentation of those fees and authorize to move
forward or is there just interest on the park of the Council to know what's going
on. My direction to Tom and the Commission was to put the program together,
Meridian City Council
March 17, 1998
Page 51
establish the fees to cover the costs and bring them to the Council for
consideration but not necessarily approval. If we decide as a body we want to
bless the summer rec program and those additional fees we'll have that
opportunity so you'll at least see them this year.
Bird: Charlie, I think that between our Park's Department head that we hired and
our Commission that I as one don't think I need to approve it —
Rountree: -- But you need to know about it.
Bird: --You know that's fine yeah if they want to let us know about it but I don't
think as a council that we have to approve it.
Corrie: Well just think about that Keith.
Rountree: Think it about it between now and then, we may want to authorize it
and make it just so we don't get into a situation where somebody challenges the
establishment of the fee without the opportunity to due process.
Corrie: I think the council needs to overview this and vote on it, I really do.
Bird: You think we need to vote on it?
Corrie: Yeah, we do, it's public money.
Bird: I don't know as long as they get the costs out of it, it's like fees for planning
& zoning or any other fees you work up your costs and you know we're not in a
profit making deal like you are in the private so as long as you get your costs out
and your overhead I have no problem with it but I understand —
Rountree: I just point that out as you're going to see it, the action we take on it is
going to be a decision we make but I do want to point out it did not happen last
year and that's why it's going to happen this year.
Bird: But you know, I'll stand up for the City Rec last year, I've been involved with
the athletics around here so I seem to always get calls even from City Hall telling
to call me and I only had two complaints of the City Rec program and both of
them was because we wasn't full time babysitters after I checked it out.
Rountree: Yeah, that's the only complaint I had. I had one complaint and that's
because we weren't open like we were open before and it cost more than it cost
before and you couldn't leave your kids here all day for —
Bentley: I think what Keith's probably getting at a little bit and I sort of feel the
same way, I'm not here to micromanage, they can set the fees and we can get
Meridian City Council
March 17, 1998
Page 52
them and look at them and if we don't have any heartburn that's fine but you
know they need to — we've hired somebody to do the job and we need to give
him the opportunity to do it.
Corrie: I agree that he can do it I just think that the Council when it comes to any
money, the Council better approve or disapprove and go over it because you are
responsible for the financial and no one person can do that it's the Council's
decision —
Bird: Well that's true but that's what our Commission — Mayor I thought the Parks
and Rec Commission can help him and stuff and I know those people on there
you've got some pretty conservative people on there and I think that — I'm like
Glenn, I'm not here to manage the Parks and Recreation —
Rountree: They're advisory and they will offer the advice when they see this but
the Council will see this information so just for your — that was decided last
evening by that group. We need to make a decision, are we going to meet for a
planning session? Mayor Corrie is going to be out of town the week of the 23rd
does anybody have a problem with the 31 st? A couple agenda items for that
planning session is if you'll recall I gave you a list of ordinances that had been
suggested to be repealed, I asked that you get together with your respective
department heads and go over ordinances that they may have some grief with
and that need to be gotten rid of, maybe at that session we can get department
heads and us — out heads together come up with a list of things that we can
delete, get the deletion taken care of and get our ordinance book in a state to
where we can get a ordinance book for all of us to have that makes sense that
we can follow and that our new enforcement officer can carry around and not
have to have a personal computer to find the index of the thing to find where
things are, violations or not, but that's the one thing I'd like to do is identify those
and then by action of the Council at the soon to follow meeting that we delete
those archaic ordinances about hypnosis and etcetera. I'd also like us to talk
about, and this has been mentioned, a copulation of the ordinances that relate to
reviews, meeting procedures, hearings and whatnot with the City so we can
streamline our meeting process and I would like to start getting our feet wet in
that area in the planning session so we can get some things rolling on drafting a
copulation ordinance that establishes our hearing and meeting procedure or at
least brings it all together in one spot so we can make sense out of it and know
how we can or can't modify that with respect to consent agendas and maybe
reducing the number of hearings for certain things, maybe ultimately having the
possibility of a hearing officer, be it one of the City Attorneys or the Planning
Administrator take care of certain things, those kinds of things. My last thing is
Gary have you and Will — do you have good enough direction from us on seeking
information in the way of the City Hall plan? Do we need to clarify that and I'd like
to do that this evening so those guys can get going on that. I guess I've talked to
you about it and I don't know if I've been clear as what needs to be done, maybe
Meridian City Council
March 17, 1998
Page 53
I misguided you. Again, my desire is a concept plan and I have a piece of paper
that came from CSHQA talking about a flash plan, maybe that's what it is we
want, a flash plan of a site and a possible building for City Hall so we can have
something tangible to look at and have people to comment about. My concern is
if we do a bid process for that we're looking at a couple months and my
discussion with Gary is that we've got ZGA on retainer to do that if they can do it
for $1000 maybe we can get that in a week from them and we can chart a course
of action, otherwise we may be looking at several months to go through some
kind of a consultant selection process. Those are my thoughts, they need some
help because they haven't been able to get of dead center on this thing.
Comments?
Bentley: What kind of help do they need?
Smith: I guess the only thing that I — and I apologize Charlie I don't remember
talking about it if we did.
Rountree: Well I think it was an evening that you weren't particularly happy. It's
been about a week, I can't remember the circumstance but we were together
here I think during another meeting.
Bentley: Probably when he found out he couldn't move.
Rountree: It may very well have been prior to the last planning and zoning
meeting — (inaudible) special meeting and their meeting, that's when I think you
and I talked about it and I detected a fair degree of confusion as to what to do
and where to go.
Smith: -- Oh when you had your early meeting? Okay — So ZGA has got a handle
on the area that we need as far as square footage from their space analysis
plan?
Rountree: Yeah, we were looking at three stories, 25,000 square feet.
Smith: Three stories, 25,000 square feet on two to three acres of ground.
Rountree: Two to three acres.
Bird: Whatever the parking requirements would be Gary on that.
Bentley: Right, I think they recommended I think it was 2'/2 and we discussed
maybe going a full acre bigger, if we didn't need it we'd turn it into a mini park. If
we had to do some expansion we could take it over then.
Meridian City Council
March 17, 1998
Page 54
Smith: So if I talk to ZGA and they can put something together for a nominal fee
do you want Will and I to proceed on that basis then?
Corrie: What are you going to have them put together?
Smith: A concept plan for — just something for us to look at as I understand it to
get us started saying that yes this is what we want or — we talked about —
Bentley: --Just a shell and a site. A minimum site plan requirement.
Smith: Something that we can start as a show and tell project for the public to
comment on.
Bird: Gary you could probably go to Dave Broman and he could draw you up, you
know 90% of these big buildings start out as a picture and you know draw you up
— I mean I don't envision anything fancy, I don't think anyone on the Council after
that or the Mayor after that planning session we didn't figure anything being
jogged here and there and everything but just the concept that we can show
people is the way I took it, if you had just the shell of the building you know and
of course put a lot of windows in it and —
Bentley: -- doors —
Anderson: -- and a fire pole —
Bird: No elevators just a fire pole.
Rountree: And maybe what we need is to ask ZGA or somebody say what is it
we're asking for because I don't — it probably has a name whether it's concept or
like on this thing it calls it a flash plan, I think that's just a quick and dirty concept
of what could go on a piece of property, and we're looking at the same kind of
thing that would fit the bill of a three story building that has 25,000 square feet,
reasonable cost, reasonable design.
Corrie: If there is a cost to it maybe some other architects might want to do the
same thing so we need to look at that part of it as well. We don't want to say just
because they got the building here we're just going to start giving everything to
them because we're going to get some contractors and architects pretty upset at
us so I think we need to ask them about what we need to do there.
Smith: Well do we need to go to put out a little RFP real quick to some
architectural firms and get some proposals in if that's —
Rountree: Well if we can put a date certain response on that I don't have a
problem with it. I have a problem if we're looking at another couple months.
Meridian City Council
March 17, 1998
Page 55
Bird: I've got a problem like Charlie because I think if you put a RFP out you're
going to do it. I think what you do is we've got them on retainer —
Corrie: They're not on a retainer.
Bird: Oh okay well I think you can go to a draftsman, they can draw you a picture
of what this building's going to look like and you need to decide whether you want
brick, how much of this and all that you want, then when you — each developer or
whoever player we go that comes in and selects to bid on this thing for us they
will bring their own architect and their general contractor and all this with them.
Corrie: Yeah we don't even know where it's going to be yet.
Bird: We don't you know and they'll get the land and everything else, we just
wanted — Gary what I understood in our planning session is we just wanted
something that we could hang up on the wall here and show people and get
some kind of an idea what we wanted. We want three stories, 25,000 square feet
with parking and landscaping and stuff and I think the guy's name is Dave
Broman who does a lot of those sketches for developers that I know and he
might be able to do exactly what your concept is, you might not even have to go
to an architect right now —
Corrie: We'll have to eventually but maybe we could just get a concept of what
we think we would like to do.
Smith: Well Broman for one I know is not cheap.
Rountree: No, you're talking a minimum of $1500.00 for a fairly small sketch and
more like $2500.00.
Smith: I mean to get that kind of a drawing, of a production drawing, it's an art
type — it's an artist thing —
Rountree: Yeah, because he does things to scale perspective.
Smith: But I — well I don't know, I guess I can talk to ZGA or I could talk to Alan
down at CSHQA and try to get some understanding of what they would do for
this flash plan if that's the right name for it. If just seems to me that when we
hang something on the wall for the public to comment on it ought to be
something that has had a little thought and if it's going to be brick or if it's going to
be all glass or if it's going to be steel and glass or steel and brick and you know
what it looks like is going to dictate what it's going to cost.
Meridian City Council
March 17, 1998
Page 56
Bird: That's true, but then in the same token if your lease agreement has you
doing maintenance you want it as maintenance free so you probably want brick
over (inaudible) or siding or anything like that.
Smith: Right, and on a multi -story building I'm sure they're going to be able to
give us some advice as to how we should proceed. I for one don't want to see
anything like the hotel that went up in downtown Boise, I don't find that very
attractive but that's my own personal taste.
Rountree: You don't like that art deco stuff huh?
Bird: You mean the new BA center?
Smith: The one where the hockey team is and the hotel. Bank of America, yes.
Corrie: Why don't you have Gary check that out and come back with us the 31St
and tell us what you find out.
Rountree: That would be good, yeah bring that back to the planning meeting.
Corrie: I think you can talk to different architects and get an idea what they're
doing.
Rountree: I've talked to Paul and Alan both.
Bird: Yeah I think Alan would be a good one to —
Rountree: Because we did talk about also in the planning session that we may
want to take that beyond and have a — do a little RFP to have a firm help us in
the public relations aspect. I'd forgotten about that but we did talk about that.
Corrie: I have two things. One, I got a letter today from Mr. Wallace D. Lovan. It
says Dear Bob, Cherry Lane golf course will be raising green fees one dollar for
the year of 1998, the prices will be as follows: weekdays $14 to $15 and
weekends $15 to $16.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor what do you suppose he would say if we wrote him back
and say you can't do that because the terms of his lease says the City Council
has to approve that. If you read the fine print City Council is supposed to approve
any fee increases on the golf course. To my knowledge that's never been done.
Corrie: To my knowledge it's never has been either. Has it ever been done?
Rountree: Has City Council ever approved —
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March 17, 1998
Page 57
Berg: Yes, City Council has in the past approved green fees.
Bentley: We didn't the last ones.
Berg: I just said in the past it has been approved.
Corrie: It's been pre 1991.
Bentley: I think that should be done.
Rountree: By the terms of the agreement it needs to be done by the City Council.
At least that's my reading of it, I don't know about Mr. Crookston if he can
remember any of the language there.
Corrie: Can you remember some of the language Mr. Crookston off the top of
your head, probably not?
Crookston: That's a very good assumption.
Corrie: That's a long time ago.
Crookston: It's a long time ago but I do believe that the City Council is supposed
to approve of any increase if there is one.
Bentley: I think a letter should be sent back to that affect.
Corrie: Okay, I will send him back a letter that the City Council has to approve
these, this and —
Rountree: I don't mind approving a rate increase if it's competitive with
surrounding golf courses but if it's excessive —
Bird: Well if he's raising to that he's still cheaper than any place else around.
Rountree: Okay if he's still cheaper than any place else then I don't have a
problem with that, they're going to get plenty of play with the eighteen holes.
Bird: Whatever the lease agreement says I'm for it, if it says we have to approve
it we have to approve it.
Corrie: Well let's just — do you want to approve $14 to $15 and $15 to $16 tonight
or do you want to look at it or do it April the 7th .
Bentley: No, I think he needs to come forth with a request.
Corrie: Well whatever you say, I'll write him a letter.
Meridian City Council
March 17, 1998
Page 58
Rountree: Put it in terms of a request to the City Council to approve it. We very
well want to check the lease though I may be speaking out of turn here but I —
Bird: I think the Mayor's got a good point, I think — I for one councilman will go
ahead and approve it tonight if you want because we might be in the wrong.
Corrie: Do you have the lease?
Crookston: Yes, I do.
Corrie: Okay, would you phone me in the morning?
Crookston: I'll phone you as soon as I can find out.
Corrie: Okay, let me know then and I'll tell him that the Council, if that be the
case, then the Council will vote on the increase that he has asked for on April the
7th
Bird: And if not, good luck. Go ahead and raise it.
Corrie: Second, the APA retreat is going to be April 16th, it's a Thursday at the
Double Tree Downtown in Boise, all council members are invited to attend that.
We will discuss all kinds of things I guess, it will be probably about 8 to 5 and
there will be a light dinner or something or luncheon at that time. I'll give you
more information on it as we get closer to it. That's all I have, do you have
anything? I'm sorry we did forget Shari.
Stiles: I was wondering maybe if we could have a staff retreat at the Cayman
Islands?
Corrie: I think it would be great, it's 90 degrees in the day and 73 degrees at night
and the (inaudible) is 93 percent.
Bird: Shari, how's your space, did they get everything —
Stiles: We got our counters in today, it's starting to look a little more like home
and probably have a couple of desks in this —
Bird: And Mayor tells me that you and him are going to get some people on
board here maybe this week?
Stiles: Well at least talk to them.
Bird: Great, don't get yourself caught behind.
Meridian City Council
March 17, 1998
Page 59
Stiles: Oh that happened a couple of years ago.
Bird: And it's going to happen — yeah, I know you can't go through it again. You
can do while you're young but when you get old that gets to you.
Stiles: I'm pretty old.
Bentley: You ready to play with the ordinances?
Stiles: Not yet.
Bird: Let her get caught up on her planning and zoning and on her move.
Stiles: Yeah. I've got eleven applications this last Thursday so I've been spending
most of my time reviewing those this week.
Bird: How many?
Stiles: Eleven. Some of them are combined, annexation, zoning, conditional use,
but this last time it was like the first time anybody had ever submitted an
application, the mess they submitted. I had a couple questions about the budget.
I've spent, well I haven't paid it yet, but $2500 for the lease improvements over
there that can't come out of capital improvements and also the counters were
about $2500 so there's a total of almost $5000 that I don't know if there's any
money budgeted at all for that or if you want to approve a shift from the salaries
to go to pay for that. I've got about $30,000 extra in salaries for people that
haven't been paid so if that's where you want to take it or —
Bentley: They're working for free?
Bird: They're not hired.
Rountree: I guess to that comment I would suggest that you bundle up all of
these costs and we do just that, look at the salary savings and take care of them
in one flail swoop as opposed to (inaudible) and you know on the interim if you've
got to do it coming in it's going to get paid anyway so — and if you've got that kind
of salary savings I don't see that it's critical.
Corrie: You have $10,000 on capital improvements don't you?
Stiles: That can't be used. That's not capital improvement —
Corrie: That's capital outlay — that's not capital outlay?
Meridian City Council
March 17, 1998
Page 60
Stiles: No, that's not going to go with the City when we leave, it's going to stay
there, it doesn't belong to the City.
Anderson: That's a leased building.
Stiles: And also I didn't know about the lease, I've never seen the lease so I
really don't know what the terms of it are, apparently we've already paid them
some money and I don't know where that money came from.
Corrie: We don't even have the lease yet, we're trying to find it. I don't know
whether I signed it or —
Stiles: So there's no lease but they've been paid money?
Corrie: No they haven't been paid the money for the lease yet I don't think.
Stiles: Well Janice said that they had been paid for two months already and we
haven't even been in there a month.
Corrie: I don't recall signing the lease and he doesn't recall signing it either.
That's why I told this Tim Reed to call me with — I need a copy of that agreement,
I don't remember signing anything --
Bentley: -- I thought you said you signed it?
Corrie: -- and he doesn't remember attesting to it and I don't have it so we better
find out about what's going on here.
Stiles: But do you have a line item that's going to cover that lease amount or is
that something I need to cover in my budget somehow? I think our space was
about a thousand a month plus or minus.
Bird: Wasn't that put in your budget?
Stiles: Wasn't ever planned when —
(Inaudible)
Bird: What do we do there?
Rountree: Just make a budget adjustment —
Bird: She isn't financed by the general fund though. Planning and Zoning is
Enterprise Fund.
Stiles: It's partly funded by the Building Department, no enterprise funds.
Meridian City Council
March 17, 1998
Page 61
Bird: It's not a general fund item, she's being funded for her lease out of
enterprise funds as I understand.
Stiles: There's no enterprise funds.
Berg: Enterprise funds is water and sewer, general fund is the rest of us. Now we
have an ordinance that deals with Planning and Zoning and Building Department
funds but it's still a general fund.
Corrie: Then why do we have Planning and Zoning Enterprise Fund on the title
up there?
Berg: Because that's the term that you use in the ordinance which I didn't really
like because I didn't want to connect Enterprise with the water and sewer.
Bird: Yeah, but the same token that is not tax revenue that is generated revenue
from within department resources.
Berg: That's what you have determined it but if you go to the state code it's —
Bird: That isn't tax — she isn't being — none of the taxes coming in is funding her.
It's from work fees and stuff out of the building and the Public Works, am I not
right? I could be wrong Will, I'm not arguing with you I'm just asking a point of
question.
Berg: I think that's the proposal that it's all paid for by fees and permits but it's still
a general fund account.
Rountree: Sematics.
Bentley: Yeah it's just semantics, because the same point would hold true if she
stayed here she wouldn't be paying rent out of here, she wouldn't be paying rent
out of her deal.
Bird: So who's budget does it come out of Glenn?
Rountree: It comes out of Planning and Zoning budget.
Stiles: Can I rent out my old office to Janice?
Bird: But it comes out of general fund Charlie? Because that's what I'm asking.
Rountree: Because that's where all that money goes. It doesn't go to the
enterprise accounts, it goes into the general fund.
Meridian City Council
March 17, 1998
Page 62
Corrie: Then you'll have to make a budget adjustment (inaudible) at the end of
the year.
Rountree: So the fees that are collected go into the general fund account.
They're earmarked but —
Bird: They're earmarked for the Planning and Zoning, they don't go to fire, police,
administration or anything like that.
Bentley: We may have to make a separate line item just to cover our lease.
Bird: Can we do that at this point of the budget year?
Bentley: No, it has to be an adjustment.
Rountree: We're just going to have to adjust hose budgets at the end of the year
based on cost expenditures and availability of funds.
Stiles: So I'll just not worry about the lease part then.
Corrie: I wouldn't at this point.
Rountree: Apparently we don't have one to worry about.
Berg: We may have to create line items —
Bird: -- We shouldn't be paying them then, if we've paid for two months they've
got to be showing up somewhere on the deal, I'll look at my printout.
Bentley: Are we done?
Corrie: Any thing else Shari?
Stiles: Just an informational note, there's a gentleman that would like to operate a
fruit stand at Eagle and Fairview provided he gets the appropriate approvals for
the access to get onto this property, he will be applying for an itinerate merchant
license and hopefully it won't take six months to get through that process but I
would like to be able to let him start May 1 St if the process ends up taking some
ridiculously long period of time. The Chief and I talked about it and he wouldn't
have a problem signing off on it, apparently — do you have a son named Alex,
Charlie?
Rountree: Yes.
Meridian City Council
March 17, 1998
Page 63
Stiles: I guess he was a fraternity brother with him, he said he spent a night at
your house, I don't know if you know him I think his name was Ryan Hansen? I
think that's what his name is but usually — this is one of the ordinances that
needs to be revised as far as this itinerate merchant background check, the Chief
said that the history of that is to find out the prostitutes, the real criminals and that
you know if we're going to be requiring itinerate merchants we shouldn't be
making them wait so long to get it. I mean they're out of town by the time they
can get through that, their whole season's are lost and —
Bird: Get their money and set up.
Corrie: Well we went through that with the other one.
Stiles: But that was just to let you know if you see some fruit —
Bentley: His exit isn't going to be onto Eagle Road is it?
Stiles: Not unless ITD says it's okay.
Rountree: He's going to be working with both ITD and ACHD to see if —
Bentley: Well I mean on the part they're tearing out.
Rountree: No, it's where they have the Lion's Club Rodeo.
Bentley: Oh the rodeo site? Yeah.
Stiles: ACHD, I talked to Larry Sale tonight he said he would rather not know
about it and then if there's a problem then they'll deal with it but I think there's
already a curb cut there on Fairview so —
Bentley: Yes, there is.
Stiles: Yeah, they sold Christmas trees on that same lot so —
Anderson: Would that guy be living there then?
Stiles: No.
Anderson: I mean a lot of them do, these fruit stands you see them pull a camp
trailer in there and those people are living in them.
Stiles: I don't believe that's his intent, he will have a refrigeration unit to have
some of the produce kept cool but other than that he didn't indicate he planned
on living there.
Meridian City Council
March 17, 1998
Page 64
Corrie: Where are they getting the electricity?
Stiles: There's a power pole on the lot probably that was erected for the Lion's
Club I don't know. That's all I had thanks.
Bentley: Motion to adjourn.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion to adjourn, all in favor say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: All ayes.
►TAINso9I►[e1_1911L4111ZUIII II_11m11SIMaOTA I
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
APPROVED:
ROBERT D. CORRIE, MAYOR
ATTEST:
WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., CITY CLERK