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Home My WebLink About1997 01-07MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL JANUARY 7 1997 The regular meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order by Mayor Robert D. Corrie at 7:30 P.M. MEMBERS PRESENT: Walt Morrow, Glen Bentley, Charlie Rountree, Ron Tolsma: OTHERS PRESENT: Will Berg, Wayne Crookston, Shari Stiles, Gary Smith, Jim Shearer, Chief Gordon, Boy Scout Troop #172, Bert Brennen, Steve Sweet, Tom Ensley, Terry Leighton, Kent Kampus, Steve Bradbury: Corrie: Council, with your permission before we do the minutes approval for the previous meeting I would like to make a presentation to Jim Shearer. If I might, Jim would you come up here please. Jim has served the City of Meridian quite (inaudible) member of our Planning and Zoning Commission, he was well paid for that job he did get a turkey once a year for that. He has done an excellent job for us and on behalf of the City of Meridian and the City Council I would like to (inaudible) for all you have done. It says to Jim Shearer, Planning and Zoning Commissioner presented in appreciation for the contribution (inaudible) January 1984 to January of 1997. Your volunteer time and efforts as a public servant (inaudible) presented by the Mayor and City Council January 7, 1997. Jim once again thank you for all you have done for us. We appreciate everything you have done for us as a City. Also Troop #172 Boy Scouts, welcome to the City Council meeting tonight. We are glad to have you and hope that we give you some political science review here and City government. MINUTES OF PREVIOUS MEETING HELD DECEMBER 17,1996: Corrie: Council, you had a chance to review the minutes of the previous meeting held December 17, 1996. Are there any corrections or alteration you would like to make? Hearing none I will entertain a motion that the minutes be approved as written. Morrow: So moved Rountree: Second Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Morrow, second by Mr. Rountree to approve the minutes of December 17,1996, any further discussion? All those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea ITEM #1: TABLED DECEMBER 17, 1996: MOUNTAIN VIEW EQUIPMENT COMPANCY: REQUEST HOOK UP TO CITY WATER AT 700 W. OVERLAND ROAD: Corrie: Mr. Smith? Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 2 Smith: Mr. Mayor and Council members, I have a letter a memo that I typed out late this afternoon that I would like to distribute to each one of you. After our last Council meeting I did some review of the request by Mountain View Equipment and consequently I wrote a letter or actually I met with one of the owners Tom Nicholsen and discussed the situation. After that discussion I sent a letter to Mr. Nicholsen outlining the items that we discussed and the costs as I envisioned them. I gave a copy of that to Will and do you have a copy of that tonight, that was the December 26th letter. There were some rather big numbers in there as far as water assessment is concerned dollar wise. Subsequent to the writing of that letter I met again with Mr. Nicholsen and also with his partner Randy Stewart and the building contractor Bert Brennen in fact this morning. We discussed the costs, assessment costs that I had determined earlier. I did some additional research especially with our sister cities, Boise, I was not able to get information from United Water. The people that I needed to talk to were out of the office and didn't return by the end of the day. But I did talk to Nampa, Caldwell and Kuna. Also, the building permits that we have been issuing for commercial buildings have not included an assessment for fire sprinkler service. They have been assessed for domestic water use facilities only. So the contents of this interoffice memo that you now have in your possession basically conclude that and I will just read the last paragraph. "In retrospect and that is to my December 26 letter, an assessment for strictly fire sprinkler protection is probably not warranted. They have agreed to extend the water main in Overland Road to the west boundary of their property and install at least one fire hydrant along the Overland Road frontage. Along with that, they are currently utilizing an on site well for their domestic water use. I don't know what the amount of water is that they use but Mr. Nicholsen and Mr. Stewart tell me that it is considerable because they do a lot of steam cleaning operations. My own feeling as far as their connection to that to our system for their domestic water is that I would rather not see that happen at this time anyway. We have enough places for our water to go and I would rather keep that use off of our water system. They also recently installed a new on site disposal system for their sewer. Central District Health has approved that so I see no reason requirement for their connection to the sewer system. It is actually the end of the line so to speak for the Ten Mile Trunk, it wouldn't go any farther to the west. Everything west of them will drain into the, I think it is called the Purdom Gulch drain. Can I answer any questions? Tolsma: What, we went (inaudible) same problem we had when we were on 2'/2 street here a few years back? Smith: I don't recall (inaudible). Tolsma: Smelly water and things like that of a dead end line or would that a blow off system? Smith: There would have to be a blow off installed at the end of the line. It is, on 2 '/2 street we had a problem there with there was some kind of an algae in the fire sprinkler pipe that created this onion odor. They didn't have an adequate back flow prevention Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 3 device on that system and that was one of the problems. The water was able to leak back through the check valve that they had and into our system. That requirement for back flow devices is much more stringent than it was at that time. Tolsma: (Inaudible) Smith: No sir, I recall that very clearly. Tolsma: That is the only question I had. Corrie: Mr. Rountree? Rountree: Do you have a ball park figure of what the cost would be to the city for this installation in terms of inspection and that sort of thing? Smith: No I don't, as far as the main line is concerned in Overland Road, the line from Overland into the building? Rountree: No, just the cost if they were allowed to connect to City water for the fire sprinkler, what inspections would be required and what is the cost to the City? Smith: Well the City's involvement would be in the street in Overland Road. They are in the County, I assume that the State will inspect on site plumbing for them. Rountree: So we would just look at the connection? Smith: We would just be looking at the main line installation in the street. I don't recall what their frontage is but it is something like 350 feet maybe is that correct. So 350 feet of line would probably be maybe a couple of days at the most of contractor time to install the water main. In terms of cost to the City labor costs, I don't know we are probably $300 to $500 ball park guess. Rountree: Thank you Morrow: Mr. Mayor, final question, the fire sprinkler system there was some question at one point in time or at least at our last meeting whether it was going to be (inaudible) in the new addition or retrofit for the existing building. The resolution of that was or is? Smith: I didn't discuss it particularly, I think it is just the new building isn't it? Brennen: I am Bert Brennen the contractor, the portion that is required to be sprinkled is the H-4 occupancy only which is the hazardous portion which is the existing service bay. None of the new is actually required nor is any of the office area required to be sprinkled. Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 4 Morrow: So the sprinkler requirement is for existing Brennen: For the existing H4 repair garage. Morrow: Where the shop is? Brennen: Correct. Morrow: Thank you Corrie: Counselor? Crookston: Mr. Smith, there is a minimum fee for fire protection service even though they don't use any water isn't there? Smith: Yes there is, it is a monthly flat rate fee depending on the diameter of the fire line? Crookston: And they are aware of that? Smith: Yes Morrow: One more question Mr. Mayor, is the diameter of the fire line that is going to be installed the service line going to be installed is that being sized in such a manner that future expansion or should the building need to be sprinkled in the future that line will handle that sprinkling for that site? Smith: Yes, Mr. Brennen says yes. Are there any other questions that you might have of me? Thank you Corrie: Any further comments or questions from Council? Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I would move that we allow Mr. Nicholsen and Mr. Stewart doing business as Mountain View Equipment Company to install a fire sprinkler line to their building under the condition that they do extend the 12 inch water main to their westerly property line and they reimburse the City the cost of the inspections for that installation. Rountree: Second Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Morrow, second by Mr. Rountree to allow the installation of a fire service line to the building and extending the 12 inch main on the westerly boundary of the property, any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 5 ITEM #2: TABLED DECEMBER 17, 1996: REQUEST FOR ANNEXATION AND ZONING FOR HIGHLANDS RANCH SUBDIVISION BY GEM PARK II PARTNERSHIP: Corrie: Council, I think this is more of a house keeping thing here. Morrow: Mr. Mayor, if I might at our last meeting according to my notes and a copy of the minutes the item was to bring this onto the agenda so that we could grant the withdrawal as requested by Gem Park II for Highlands ranch by Gem Park II. That is what we are attempting to do tonight with this item being on the agenda. I would then move that we withdraw the Highlands Ranch Subdivision by Gem Park II from the City agenda. Tolsma: Second Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Morrow, second by Mr. Tolsma to withdraw the request for annexation and zoning from further agendas, any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor? Opposed? OTA Is] 19I L[ay-WIVV121D7-_11\'[x1 ITEM #3: AMENDED FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR NEW/USED RV SALES/SERVICE FACILITY BY ZAMZOWS: Corrie: All of the members of Council have the amended findings. Morrow: I do Mr. Mayor, I have read the amended findings and I am in agreement with the amended findings to the extent, in terms of it asks that the whole parking lot be paved, as I remember our discussion at our last Council meeting we had talked about requiring the approaches and driveways only being paved. The reason for that was is there is an upcoming road construction improvement project to Franklin, East First and Meridian Roads that would impact this parcel of property. So it was my understanding that at least from my perspective we were not going to require pavement and or landscaping along Meridian, only to be torn out and redone a year or 18 months from now. My thought was that, I think it was Mr. Rountree in that conversation mention that it made sense to do the approaches and driveways only and then do a dust abatement or dust control on the remaining portion of the lot. These findings do not reflect that, I won't be supportive of these findings for that reason. It seems to me that it makes sense to discuss those things in the findings perhaps grant it to pave the approaches and the driveways, use a dust abatement on the road mix portion of the paving, I mean road mix portion of the parking lot until such time that the improvements are done to Franklin, East First and Meridian Road. And then require the landscaping, the lot paving to be done. Possibly to guarantee that in fact does happen after that road is rebuilt, requiring some sort of bond or letter of credit or some sort of contractual Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 6 obligation on the part of the Zamzows who are the owners that work will in fact get done. Corrie: Any further discussion? Rountree: Mr. Mayor, I agree with what Walt said about the paving, I believe that is a good synopsis of what we discussed. I would suggest that we might just amend these findings to include that so we can get on with this. Bentley: Mr. Mayor, I would agree with both the Councilmen on the parking lot issue and amending the findings. Tolsma: I would agree with them, that will make (inaudible). Morrow: Mr. Mayor, if I might I would like to ask the Councilmen's opinion in terms of the requirement of some sort of security or some sort of contractual relationship that guarantees that paving and landscape in fact is done upon a reasonable time period after the completion of the road way rebuild. Rountree: My recollection and I think the minutes will support that the applicant agreed to do that when they presented it to us when that question came up. So I think that we could include that in here. Morrow: Do you feel comfortable based on that testimony or would you like to see something stronger? Rountree: I think that the testimony ought to be reflected in the amended findings. Morrow: That being the case Mr. Mayor, I would like to move that we approve the findings of fact and conclusions subject to amending them to reflect that the driveways and approaches be paved and that a dust abatement application be done on an annual basis for as needed for the remaining road mix portion of the lot. Upon completion the rebuild of Franklin, East First and Meridian Roads that the landscaping be installed along the Meridian Road side and that the remainder of the lot at that point in time be paved within six months of the completion of that road. Bentley: Second Corrie: Motion is seconded, any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor o the findings of fact and conclusions being approved subject to amendments being discussed? Roll call vote. ROLL CALL VOTE: Morrow - Yea, Bentley - Yea, Rountree - Yea, Tolsma - Yea MOTION CARRIED: All Yea Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 7 Corrie: Entertain a motion for a decision? Bentley: Mr. Mayor, the Meridian City Council hereby decides that this conditional use permit requested by the applicant for the property described in the application is approved with the conditions set forth in these amended findings of fact and conclusions of law and that the property be required to meet the water and sewer requirements, the fire and life safety codes, the uniform building code and all other ordinances of the City of Meridian including the property that shall be paved. Rountree: Second Corrie: Motion made and seconded on the decision, any further discussion? All those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea ITEM #4: FINAL PLAT FOR ASHFORD GREENS SUBDIVISION NO. 2 BY BRIGHTON CORPORATION: Corrie: Is there a representative of Ashford Greens here this evening? Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, Bruce Freckleton and I have met with the applicant's representative and we will meet again with the applicant and their representative on Monday morning. We felt one of the main issues was the public versus private road and the gated entries that they were proposing. When this first came through in the public hearings they were going to have to be private because of the roadway section they were proposing with only I believe 29 feet of pavement. ACHD has since agreed to accept that road as a public road and because it was a little bit confusing during the process we would like your thoughts on whether it was our intent that they be private roads with the gated entries or that with the new information we have from Ada County Highway District you would accept that as a public street and we could do away with the gated entries there. The Fire department and the Police department have both expressed some concern about the gated entries in that subdivision. Morrow: Mr. Mayor, to answer your question from my perspective, the entire project from the very beginning and all of its representations and the only reason for the acceptance of the private road or the project was because of the private road concept and the gates that made it because it is less in width than a normal road the gates kept the general public out and kept the confusion out. Now basically our fire department and police department if they are having a problem with the concept need to go to the east side of the valley to Boise and see all of the gated communities and how those gates and things are handled. It is a coming phenomena that they are going to have to learn how to deal with it. There are solutions to that problem and widely used solutions not only in this valley but in several other areas within the Western US. So from my Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 8 perspective if we are going to have a narrower road ten it needs to be done in such a manner that we discourage a lot of traffic use on that road and that needs to be a private road with a gate. That is the policy or the concept that I accepted when I voted to approve of the presentation made by the Brighton folk for this parcel. If the road is going to be public and going to be sub -standard in with then I will change my position in terms of my thinking about the approval of that project. Rountree: Shari, did you indicate that Brighton wants to pursue this or this is a staff comment about private versus public? Stiles: It is really a staff comment but it did come up through the public hearings that when Mike Wardle made his presentations he indicated that if Ada County Highway District would accept the streets as public then they had no problem with dedicating those as public streets. Rountree: But as approved and the concept that we have heard as a private community private gated community in respect to that approval I agree with Walt. If we are going to change that concept we may very well be back here looking at a new subdivision So I guess I would support that it stay as it is and that ACHD not even be requested to accept ownership. Corrie: Shari, was that the primary objections that they had of any of the comments you made was that the major one? Stiles: I don't know that they even objected to that, but they would like to meet with us to go over, I think we have five pages of comments there and hash out those details. Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I would move that we approve the final plat for Ashford Greens Subdivision No. 2 by Brighton Corporation subject to the original conditions by which it was approved and subject to the staff working out the staff comments with the Brighton Corporation folk and that if there is any deviation from those staff comments that it reappear before the City Council for a public hearing. Rountree: Second Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Morrow, second by Mr. Rountree, to approve the final plat subject to the conditions as stated in the motion, any further discussion? All those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea ITEM #5: PUBLIC HEARING CONTINUED FROM DECEMBER 17,1996: REQUEST FOR ANNEXATION AND ZONING TO C -C BY CHERRY PLAZA ASSOCIATES: Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 9 Corrie: At this time I will open the public hearing and invite the representative from Cherry Plaza Associates to come forward. Steve Sweet, 405 S. 8t" Street, Boise, was sworn by the City Attorney. Sweet: Mayor and members of the Council, we are following up on a plat that we originally brought before the City Council on March 5, 1996 where we talked about a resubdivision of the Cherry Plaza property at First and Meridian and Fairview, pardon me. The Council endorsed a resubdivision which proceeded on May 3rd, and was consummated on May 3rd, the site was resubdivided. With the resubdivision, Albertson's has purchased a parcel. I am before you tonight representing Cherry Plaza Associates and Albertson's in this request. We have proceeded with the application for annexation and zoning which we have here before you tonight, staff has made recommendations of conditions of approval, findings of fact and conclusions of law. I have handed to the Mayor and City Attorney a copy of some house keeping items we would like to see made to the annexation and zoning findings of fact and conclusions. The items which there are a number of items marked, staff has received a copy of this I believe previously. What we would like to bring to the attention of the Council is that the Highway District since we have been through this process have come up with final conditions. We would like to see on page 6, condition 19 where the Highway District has submitted draft conditions that the Highway District has submitted final conditions and we would like to see the appropriate portions of the Highway Districts final conditions incorporated in the findings of fact and conclusions of law. Pardon me Walt that is the correspondence I gave to Council it is dated 12-27. Another item we would like for clarification is on item 16, page 13, states that all ditches, canals and waterways should be tiled and we would like to go on the record that we understand this excepts the Five Mile Drain which is shown as a waterway to be left open in the City of Meridian. We are operating under the impression that waterway will not be tiled. There are a couple of other minor points on here of what we would like to do, is request the City Council to direct the City Attorney to look at our request and make the appropriate changes to these conditions to reflect what we believe are the true conditions. With that we would also request Council approve the annexation and zoning for this 12.6 acre parcel. I would be pleased to stand for questions. Bentley: Mr. Mayor, Steve you and I spoke out on the site concerning reconfiguring the parking lot, is that going to be taken care of? Sweet: Yes it is, before Planning and Zoning we have presented a number of changes we would make to the site. We are looking at an entryway, I can show you the overhead that was introduced and in the City record. Actually that is modified to some extent. What we will be doing, the primary concern as I understand it is that at First Street we have quite a bit of confusion with the traffic trying to leave the site at the stop light. We have talked to the Highway District about reconfiguring the light sequence. We are working with staff on extending an island in to minimize the conflict that is occurring at that intersection. I think staff may be able to talk to that. Our intention is to, while this Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 10 site is under parked, we acknowledge that we do not want to lose any more site, any more parking areas. The Highway District has requested a 12 foot strip off of the front, we are working toward reconfiguring our parking and keeping the same number of parking spaces but also Councilman Bentley's concern about the traffic is revising that area and putting in parking islands and turn restriction islands. Corrie: Any further questions of Council? Sweet: In conclusion we request your favorable motion and (inaudible) thank you. Corrie: Is there anyone else from the public that would like to enter testimony on this Cherry Plaza annexation and zoning? Hearing none, Council, discussion or questions? Hearing none I will close the public hearing. Morrow: Mr. Mayor, in light of the issues that Mr. Sweet brought up with respect to amending the findings of fact and conclusions, I guess my question would be is, I think those are small enough that we could do them just request the attorney to, from my perspective amend the current findings of fact and conclusions and allow them to proceed forward. I don't have a problem with that I would like to hear discussion from the other guys. Rountree: I would just like to get some assurance from staff that their issues have been addressed. Morrow: I agree with that. Shari and Gary, your input on this project with respect to all issues, the findings, the staff recommendations? Smith: I don't think we have any concerns as long as the applicant is willing to abide by the staff recommendations and I believe they are. Bentley: Mr. Mayor, I have a question for Shari, since ACHD has changed their approach to what they need to do, does this affect your landscaping plans? Stiles: I haven't seen any landscaping plans, I don't know what they are proposing to do. That was one of my comments is that they were to submit detailed landscaping plans prior to signature on the plat. Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I would move that we approve the findings of fact and conclusions of law for the annexation and zoning to C -G by Cherry Plaza Associates subject to the amendments that we have discussed tonight and subject to meeting all of staff conditions. Rountree: Second Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 11 Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Morrow, second by Mr. Rountree that we approve the findings of fact and conclusions of law as amended subject to all the amendments and the conditions of staff, any further discussion? Hearing none, roll call vote. ROLL CALL VOTE: Morrow - Yea, Bentley - Yea, Rountree - Yea, Tolsma - Yea MOTION CARRIED: All Yea Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I would move we instruct the City Attorney to prepare and annexation ordinance for Cherry Plaza and Associates. Rountree: Second Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Morrow, second by Mr. Rountree to instruct the City Attorney to draw up an annexation ordinance, any further discussion? All those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea ITEM #6: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR PRELIMINARY/FINAL LAT FOR FIRST STREET PLAZA BY CHERRY PLAZA ASSOCIATES: Corrie: I will open the public hearing at this time and invite the representative of the Cherry Plaza Associates. Steve Sweet, 405 S. 8t" Street, Boise, was sworn by the City Attorney. Sweet: Mayor and members of the Council, same project. We have been through the resubdivision that staff has put out a letter dated September 11, 1996 with conditions for the preliminary and final plat. Conditions 1 through 10, item 10 on the conditions was respond in writing to each of the comments contained in the memorandum and submit to the City. That letter was submitted on October 7 that Ms. Shari Stiles where we respond to each of the ten conditions. One of the conditions that was placed was a landscape plan. We have been working with the Highway District to decide how much ground we are going to have to work with on landscaping. We have not done a landscaping plan. We intend to submit one for staff review and comment and approval prior to requesting the City Engineer to sign the final plat. In this letter we have just again for house keeping purposes we have requested that the landscaping meet staff review and approval. That we not necessarily meet the current standards and that the shopping center was built prior to the standards coming into effect. We will put as much landscaping in as we can fit. We would like to keep the current number of car parks in there, perhaps be a little more efficient in our design of the parking area. Landscape areas which are not going to be needed for parking or control of parking through travel way. The other request that we are making is that we are asking for a variance in our parking count. We don't presently meet the existing ordinance although Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 12 we did lawfully erect the shopping center prior to the ordinance and we are looking to maintain the same number of parking places on site. With those criteria that we have some flexibility in landscaping and we have some flexibility in parking. We are prepared to continue to work with staff and develop a landscaping plan which would enhance the City's gateway. I would be happy to answer any questions that you may have if you would like any more specifics. In conclusion we would request a motion for the approval of the preliminary and final plat for First Street Plaza plat. Thank you. Corrie: Is there anyone else from the public that would like to enter testimony on this preliminary and final plat? Council, discussion or questions of staff? Rountree: Question for staff, in your meetings with the applicant, have your issues been resolved with the exception of the landscaping, Shari and Gary? Stiles: Councilman Rountree, Mayor and Council, I believe we have worked on the majority of the issues. My main concern is the landscaping and I also have a question about the additional piece that is being annexed into the City that whether Council is proposing that the variance for the parking include they be able to build additional structures on that site and still not meet the parking requirements. Morrow: Is that a question for all of us? Stiles: Yes Morrow: Mr. Mayor, from my perspective the existing parking and existing shopping center were built to the standards that applied at that time. We are annexing that ground knowing that there could be nothing reasonably done about the parking requirements. In my mind we need to live with that. I do think that we need to take care of the landscaping issues and make sure that they reflect a nice looking shopping center and it is consistent with what we are asking along the Fairview and Cherry Lane corridor. With respect to new property that might be added to the site then in my mind if there is nothing been built on it and it is being added to the site then it complies with the current ordinances and current requirements that are in effect today because they have access to those and they know what they are. So they can plan their buildings and parking lots based on those ordinances that are in effect today. Stiles: Thank you Rountree: I concur Bentley: I concur Corrie: Any further discussion, Council questions? Hearing none I will close the public hearing. Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 13 Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I would move that we approve the preliminary and final plat for First Street Plaza by Cherry Plaza Associates subject to resolution of staff conditions specifically concerning landscaping and parking issues. Rountree: Second Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Morrow, second by Mr. Rountree to approve the preliminary and final plat subject to conditions stated in the motion, any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea (END OF TAPE) ITEM #7: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A VACATION OF FARMINGTON ESTATES NO. 2 PLAT AND STREETS BY ED BEWS: Corrie: I believe this is also a house keeping thing Council too. You all have that in front of you. Any questions or discussions? Is there any representative from the Farmington Estates No. 2 here this evening? Anybody from the public that would like to enter testimony on this subject? Hearing none I will close this public hearing. Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I would move that, Council advises me we do not have to have findings, so I would move that we grant the vacation of Farmington Estates No. 2 by Ed Bews. Bentley: Second Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Morrow, second by Mr. Bentley that we approve the request for vacation of Farmington Estates No. 2 plats and streets, any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea Crookston: Mr. Mayor, we do need an ordinance on this. Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I would move that we instruct the City Attorney to draw an ordinance for the Vacation of Farmington Estates No. 2 plat and streets by Ed Bews. Bentley: Second Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Morrow, second by Bentley to have the attorney draw up an ordinance for the vacation of Farmington Estates No. 2 plat and streets, any further discussion? All those in favor? Opposed? Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 14 MOTION CARRIED: All Yea ITEM #8: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A REZONE FROM R-4 TO L -O; PARKING FOR NEW MERIDIAN LIBRARY BY MERIDIAN FREE LIBRARY DISTRICT: Corrie: I would invite a member from the Library to come forward. Tom Ensley, 1197 Main Street, Boise, was sworn by the City Attorney. Ensley: We are requesting as noted a zone change on a piece of property. You are all perhaps familiar with the new library that is under construction East of Linder Road and East of 13th. The property on Cherry Lane existing Library is sitting on about 2.2 acres in the midst of a residential area. You entertained and approved a rezone change on this I think it was last Fall of 1996 or 1995. The existing library facility as I said is under construction due to be completed in another month or two. There are two drive ways off of Cherry Lane that surround the (inaudible) with existing parking on the north and south of the building. The library district is looking at purchasing additional parking area. Of course which is our request tonight. A piece of property that is just under a '/2 acre, actually it is 3.9 acres. It abuts to the East of the existing library property. There are three (inaudible) to the East and one to the north. The property is L-shaped as you can see Leisure Lane is a private lane is to the east of this property. We are not gong to access onto Leisure Lane at all. What we are looking at is providing 21 additional parking places one of which is a handicapped parking. It will access off of this East drive way and it will be landscaped around the perimeter. The cedar fence then matches the fence that will be around the library property fence. It will be lit, it will be (inaudible) grassed with trees around as you can see around the perimeter. Then off the existing driveway a grassed area that will accommodate both the on site drainage and will serve as a garden area or a green area for the library people. So we are requesting that you approve this zone change. Corrie: Council, any questions? Bentley: Mr. Mayor, on the short piece of grass that you have that runs into Leisure Lane, what do you propose to do to keep vehicles to drive through there? Ensley: That will be fenced, there will be no access through the fence. Bentley: And you lighting you are going to control? Ensley: Yes, the same lighting that we are using on the library parking? Bentley: Is your roof finished yet? Ensley: Almost Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 15 Corrie: Thank you very much, is there anyone else from the public that would like to enter testimony? Terry Leighton, 1811 Leisure Lane, Meridian, was sworn by the City Attorney. Leighton: I have a few concerns and I would just like to go on record and maybe a recommendation. My first one would be possibly to have the Library District consider looking into possibly a couple of gates right here. I have concerns about that being so isolated people parking back there and getting into trouble. I am about ready to have the police come out because of people screwing around at the back of the library back there. That is one of my concerns, another one I would just like to go on record as to make sure the drainage would go into this controlled area and not go into where my drain field is that I just had approved in the last year by Central District Health. I just also want to go on record to say that it would be controlled like Mr. Ensley said as far as no access to Leisure Lane because that would be a lot of traffic right by my master bedroom. I had one other note here, I have a question as far as the fencing. I understand they have to have a six foot fence to match around the library, but yet as far as the City zoning requirements and up to roads, once they get within the setbacks you have to be down a three foot high so I would like to have that answer on how that is going to be addressed and whether they are going to keep that within that distance or they are going to drop it down to 3 foot or what that is going to be. I thank you for your time. Corrie: Anybody else from the public that would like to enter testimony at this time? Ensley: Let's see, the issue of the fence will be constructed strictly according to City ordinance requirements as far as height and of course we do want it to match what is going on, what is happening around the rest of the property. The other issue was the, the parking lot will be fully designed to handle, again according to City ordinance, will be designed to handle all on site parking. There will be no run off. I have forgotten the other question. Tolsma: He was wondering about controlled access back there after hours, (inaudible). Ensley: No, it is open at this point. Rountree: We talked about that in the original hearing (inaudible) Chief had some problems with that. Morrow: (Inaudible) Tolsma: The other issue is that fence that he had on there. If they run back out to the set back requirements you are going to end up with a three foot fence (inaudible). Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 16 Bentley: I have a question for Gary on this fence, seeing that Leisure Lane is privately owned and not in the City does the fence requirement apply as far as the height and setback? Smith: Councilman Bentley, as far as the requirements, it is in the City, it is a private road way that is true. The main thing that we look at on these fences is that we don't impede vision from the traveling public or from people backing out onto a roadway so that they can see. We do have in places in the City where a 6 foot fence has been constructed adjacent to a roadway but the access to that road way is restricted from the lots. So it is basically a corridor fencing. There is no access from the lots onto the roadway. When we get to an intersection street off of that corridor road then we require that the fence be reduced in height to comply with our ordinance. That is on a public road. Now, I don't know what the set back requirements have been in that subdivision. Property lines go to the center of the street. So if you are talking about a setback from a property line I am not sure where that is. I don't even know how buildings permits were issued out there. It is an illegal subdivision and has been since it began. But that is neither here nor there. Bentley: But if the whole purpose of the fence in this issue is to keep people out of there I don't think a three foot high fence is going to do them any good. Smith: It is not going to keep pedestrian traffic out of there no. But I think you have to be careful as to the location of that fence concerning Mr. Leighton's property adjacent to it. I don't know where his driveway is, whether it is on that side of his residence or on the other side, but he has to be able to see out of there when he comes out onto Leisure Lane. If you are looking at access restriction only maybe a solid wood fence isn't the type of fence that you want to build. Maybe you need to consider some type of open fence that you can see through, I don't know. There is going to be landscaping in there also Morrow: Question, Gary, how wide is Leisure Lane currently, do we know? Smith: I don't recall what the easement width is on it Councilman Morrow, I just don't recall. It might be 40 feet wide, 20 foot on each side of the centerline. Morrow: What keeps this from becoming a public street ultimately? Is it not (inaudible) Smith: Well I don't think anybody wants it. As far as the Highway District is concerned they wouldn't take it as a public street without significant improvement. Morrow: Of course that improvement would have to be either done through an LID for the property owners? 6Y"Mi dW Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 17 Morrow: The point of my question was going to be is if it is going to be improved to a public street at some point in the future that may very well mean that the fence gets moved back and forth anyhow if we allow the fence to come out to the I guess the setback line if you can determine where the setback line is. It seems to me like the dilemma here is do you approve the fence at a lesser height because of the site issue or do you move the fence back and allow it to be at the six foot height and if you move it back at what point do you move it back from? Smith: I think Councilman Morrow that from my standpoint it would be better to move the fence back. Now, how far you move it back I don't know, I don't know how long that finger of property is, how deep that finger of property is. Ensley: It is 95 feet. Smith: 95 feet, typically in platted subdivision areas the fences are located no more than 20 feet or no closer than 20 feet for right of line for the street which is 25 feet from the center of the road. That is in a platted subdivision. So, from the center of the road is 45 feet back to fence, a 6 foot fence. I don't know in this case it would have to be back that far. I am not, I am just not familiar with what is adjacent to it. Morrow: Let me ask you this, is this maybe an issue that, I don't want to get hung up on this issue, is this maybe an issue that could be dealt with at the staff level and make that determination after doing some on site looking and meeting with Mr. Leighton and getting some input from him and maybe walking the parcels of property and making the determination where it ought to go? Smith: Yes sir. Corrie: Would that meet with your approval? Ensley: Yes, I think we are flexible. Leighton: (Inaudible) I just was wondering if there is going to be any more addressed about the gates, it kind of just got stopped as far as (inaudible). Corrie: Gates, that was one of your questions. Ensley: Again as I say we are fairly flexible, I think they would just assume not have gates because they just assume not have public access back there. But again we are, whatever the City is going to require. Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I believe his question was with respect to gates on the entrance to the parking lots so people couldn't gain access to the parking lot after hours if I understood Mr. Leighton's questions. Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 18 Leighton: (Inaudible) Ensley: I think they would rather not, that would not be very desirable for someone to have to go out and open and close gates that wouldn't be a normal operation and it would be somewhat of a hardship for them to have to control gates on their own property. Morrow: Mr. Mayor, Chief Gordon, would you refresh my memory and the Council's memory, you testified in the original hearings on this proposal for the main building concerning the gates, gating off the area around so there wouldn't be after hours access. You were opposed to the gating off, could you refresh my memory in terms of the reasons for that please? Gordon: Just that the access for the patrol cars would be limited also. We would have to, the officers would have to leave their cars to go back and check the area. Morrow: Thank you Corrie: Any further testimony from the public? Council any further questions, concerns, dialogue? I will close the public hearing at this time, Council there are findings of fact and conclusions with this I believe. Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I have a question for the Counselor, the issue concerning the fence and what we talked about earlier, a solution to the problem is not in the findings of fact as prepared for us (inaudible). Crookston: That is correct. Morrow: How do we move to approve the findings of fact as written and insert then, can we do that as a simple amendment? Crookston: Yes you can. Morrow: Mr. Mayor, if I might, I would like to move that we approve and adopt the findings of fact and conclusions of law as prepared for P & Z with the amendment stipulating that the fence that borders Leisure Lane be negotiated between the City staff and Mr. Ensley from Architects Inc. and Mr. Leighton the adjacent property owner and that the fence group do an on site resolution of that problem. Bentley: Second Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Morrow, second by Mr. Bentley that we approve the findings of fact and conclusions of law as prepared by Planning and Zoning Commission with the amendments as stated, any further discussion? Roll call vote. Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 19 ROLL CALL VOTE: Morrow - Yea, Bentley - Yea, Rountree - Yea, Tolsma - Yea MOTION CARRIED: All Yea Corrie: The decision? Morrow: Mr. Mayor, the City Council of the City of Meridian approves this rezone request by the applicant for the property described in the application with the conditions set forth in the findings of fact and conclusions of law as amended. And that the property be required to meet the water and sewer requirements, the fire and life safety codes, uniform building code and other ordinances of the City of Meridian including that all parking areas shall be paved and the fence ordinance shall be met as per the adopting motion. Bentley: Second Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Morrow, second by Mr. Bentley, to approve the decision as per the adopted motion, any further discussion, all those in favor? Opposed? OTA Is] 19IM 01[OL`1: V1210=0IW'[x1 Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I would move that we authorize the City Attorney to draw up an ordinance for the rezone from R-4 to L -O for the new Meridian library by the Meridian Free Library District. Rountree: Second Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Morrow, second by Mr. Rountree to have the City Attorney draw up the ordinance, any further discussion? All those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea ITEM #9: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A REZONE FROM R-4 TO C -C FOR AN ANTIQUE, CRAFT AND COLLECTIBLE SHOP BY EUGENE PETERS: Corrie: At this time I will open the public hearing and invite the representative from the Antique, craft and collectible shop. Eugene Peters, 1323 N. Meridian Street, Meridian, was sworn by the City Attorney. Peters: Mr. Mayor and Councilmen, upon meeting on November 8t" with the Planning and Zoning Commission we have agreed to and are in the process of drawing up plans right as we speak, detailed plans in regard to the parking in the back of this property. We have agreed to do our best to comply with the lighting and so on. As I get these plans drawn up I will submit them to Shari in the office to where we can make sure they Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 20 are approved. Because of the time of the year of course we haven't stepped forward and gotten very far on this. It has been under snow and everything else but we met with Ada Asphalt in regard to measuring and doing things like that as far as how we would pave it. I plan on getting an engineer in there to come up with or help us agree on a design for the drainage and to make sure it drains on our own property. As far as lighting goes, I think I know what I have to do there and I will make sure that with going through Shari again there. I think I just have to put a small light in the back so it doesn't interfere with the neighbors. In regard to one of the Council or Planning and Zoning Commissioners had a concern about turning around. I have measured all of that out and like I say I don't have the drawing exactly together yet but there will be plenty of turn around room back there once I move that fence forward. The alley way is now 15 feet wide and they have requested going 12 feet wide with paving. Then where my property starts I am going to push that fence to the east to where we will have a 44 or 45 foot area in the back. It will be very similar parking arrangement as the All State Insurance company up the street. They have their full back yard paved. This, you have to come in past one of our other neighbors to get to it but there will still be room to get in and turn a car around rather easy and go back out. It would sure be nice if the City would pave that alley for me. Anyway, that is kind of where it stands at this time. Corrie: Council, any questions? Thank you, anyone else from the public that would like to enter testimony on this project? Kent Kampuson, 1304 W. First Street, Meridian, was sworn by the City Attorney. Kampuson: I just received the paper in the mail that said they were wanting to rezone that. I own the house that is across the alley on the corner there. My main concern was, we bought our house there in a residential district and you drive down East First Street now and all of those houses have turned into businesses and stuff. What is it going to do to my property that I bought to be a residential house that gradually now all of these on Meridian Street get turned into businesses and paved and my alley gets paved. Right now it is a very quiet street, it is basically where it is closed off there with the school we have very little traffic. My kids can ride their bikes and stuff. What is going to happen when we start rezoning and getting businesses all over across the alley from my house there, what is that going to do to that. I just wanted to say something about it. And wondered if that was really something, it is not something that I see as a desirable thing in the subdivision that I belong in. I just would ask that Council would consider that as they consider this rezoning change. Corrie: Questions of Council? I have one question, you say you just got the notice? Kampuson: We received it here a couple of weeks ago. Corrie: All right, thank you, anyone else from the public that would like to issue testimony at this time? Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 21 Peters: I certainly understand my neighbors concern on that. This particular business, how do I put it, I don't anticipate it to be something like an Albertson's. This is something that kind of is going from a hobby to a business. It is something that isn't going to draw your everyday shopper just stopping there for any particular reason. This will be something that you won't get everyone off the street in other words that is interested in stopping at this particular type of business. At that point too, or also we have parking in the front, the only reason that Planning and Zoning wanted me to pave the back part was for additional parking. This street is eventually as everyone knows is going to run south. I don't know when that is going to happen, it is going to run south one way. Many of the area residents are already zoned commercial. Other than that certainly, that is just my view point on that. I certain understand neighbors, I am a neighbor that loves a quiet neighborhood myself. I think though in all honesty paving that alley will improve that alley more than do harm to it because that alley is kind of a mess (inaudible). I really don't know how much traffic we will get in that alley but anyway, thank you. Morrow: Mr. Mayor, if I might comment to Mr. Peters with respect to the one way grid system that you are referring to. That study is going on this fiscal year with ACHD, I think the contract if very close to or has been let to do that study. So we should see some results of that by mid -summer or late summer so that process is an on going process. Mr. Mayor, I also have a hypothetical question for Gary, trying to be sensitive to the comments here is there any reason that these properties need to access the alley, paving the alley makes some good sense but do these properties that are along there need to have access to the alley so that cars drive up and down the alley. If the parking behind this building is intended for additional parking can it not enter and exit by the front entry way and not have access to the alley? Smith: Shari, mentioned, Councilman Morrow, Mayor and Council, Shari mentioned that was a Highway District requirement, not City of Meridian's. The properties on East First Street that have a commercial use enter and exit off of East First Street. But there isn't an alley there. Morrow: Let me ask the question from a different standpoint, there is an alley there but we have historically where hasn't been an alley we have had a requirement for landscaping and fencing and stuff like that to separate residential from commercial areas. How does that apply in this case where there is an alley present? What serves as the buffer to the residential uses, the obviously the stuff that is to the west side of the alley is going to remain residential. The neighbor makes a good point, how do we protect his property value in terms of a buffer zone where there is an alley involved? Smith: I think the buffer zone, Shari probably should speak to this but I think the buffer zone is more intended as a to be located on the property line. That would shield activity on the property from adjoining property. Whether it would be an alley which is a public right of way, platted public right of way, or a street which is a platted, public right of way, I think the buffering is still a property line situation. That alley, you really can't and Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 22 obviously the improvement of the alley is going to increase the use of the alley. But it is a public right of way, it is not restricted. If the Highway District is saying this is a requirement from their standpoint because I guess they are envisioning this is going to be an access to this parking area, I am not familiar with the parking plan if there is one that has been submitted. So I don't know what it looks like as far as access to Meridian Street is concerned. Morrow: Could I have Shari's comments on the same issue? Stiles: Councilman Morrow, you are asking about the buffering for the adjacent residential property? Morrow: Yes, if you are going to put, Gary raises a good point, if you are going to put landscape buffering as per our ordinance on the applicant's property then if you are doing that all the way across, that would preclude access to the alley would it not? Stiles: If they were doing that for the full length of the property. There is an existing access from the alley now? Peters: There is at this time, the fence is jogged back there to where you can park an RV a long RV and I do have a truck back there part of the time. But that is all going to get pushed forward. If there was a buffer put in other than, of any kind now of course then wouldn't be able to use that as a parking area. If it was to stay on our property, I take it what you mean is like a berm or fence or a row of trees or whatever then of course it wouldn't be accessible. As far as the alley goes, other than myself I do see other vehicles in there including City of course garbage and patrol now and again we see go through. Not a whole lot of use at the moment. Morrow: Well that is what it is used for (inaudible) Stiles: The only reason I can think that Ada County Highway District made that requirement is that they visited the site and saw that there was an access there and expected that access would continue to be used. Morrow: Let me ask the question in this manner then. If we are going to follow our ordinances and have that required buffering there which is typically a landscape and or fence or both then there would be no access from this property to that alley way is that correct? Stiles: I don't think that is necessarily true because in the past there have been planting strips that you have to have access to the property to make it work. If they don't need that access to make this work I don't see any reason why they would even need to pave the alley at all if they don't need it to make the project work. But you can't expect somebody that needs to use that access to have any planting strip across the access. Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 23 Morrow: Then how do we comply with our ordinance as to have a buffer between residential and commercial uses? Stiles: It would be difficult in that particular area. I haven't been out and looked at the site except for Meridian Road. I haven't gone down the alley. Peters: Mr. Mayor, I can answer that perhaps. All of the surrounding property is now fenced with a 6 foot fence, everyone has wood fence in that area, including my neighbor in the back, neighbors directly to the back of us. Morrow: I think Mr. Peters we are talking about theoretically here how to solve the problem long term for other properties. Maybe a solution is self evident when the road becomes one way and one direction. Then maybe there is no need for access to the alleyway by any property that might have commercial property. Therefore we can buffer and protect property owners to the west the full length by not having any access to that alley way. My concern is that the neighborhood allow or have a chance to be a neighborhood. Thank you Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Any further testimony? Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I think Mr. Smith has a point that he wants to bring up. Smith: Mr. Mayor and Council members, I just wanted to make a clarification on something that was said by the applicant earlier concerning the future of Meridian Street. There is an RFP out, request for proposal from the Ada County Highway District at this time for an engineering study of a couplet through Meridian of which Meridian Street would be one leg. There has been no determination how that is going to happen. Morrow: That was the point that I was making earlier too that proposal is in this budget year for ACHD for the study only. (Inaudible) Corrie: Thank you Gary, any more questions from Council? Hearing none I will close the public hearing. We have findings of fact and conclusions as prepared for Planing and Zoning for your consideration. Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I think for point of discussion, I don't have any problems with the findings of fact and conclusions as they are written, I would like to see us maintain the buffer zone along the property line and the fence and no access to the alley way. If that is supported by the other Councilmen then I would offer a motion to approve the findings of fact and conclusions as prepared for us by P & Z with the amendment that staff and the applicant work out the landscape buffering and fencing as it relates to the alley way. Bentley: Mr. Mayor Rountree: is that for Discussion? Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 24 Morrow: That is for discussion. Corrie: Is that a motion? Morrow: It is not a motion per say, it is for discussion. Corrie: I too fail, if there is no need for having that access I can't see following their requirement because I too feel the gentleman needs to have as much buffering as he can. I think if we starting paving that alley we are just going to increase the traffic on it. Rountree: Page 6 of the findings, item 10 actually specifies that the applicant shall meet our ordinances including landscape requirements. Which is my understanding would include the buffering requirement. So if we just want to restate that and indicate that it will be worked out with the staff, just an emphasis area I guess to be sensitive to the testimony that we have heard. I would add to what you said Walt that we possibly amend the findings to include the testimony we received tonight from the property owners. Morrow: I guess that and I am in agreement with what you are saying, I guess my concern was that there seemed to be some confusion certainly in my mind and the staff's mind when you have an alley way what constitutes the landscaping requirements and buffer and so on and so forth. So, for purposes of discussion maybe specifically incorporate language (inaudible) that covers our intent here. Rountree: I have no objection, I think that would be a good clarification. Corrie: Who would like to make the amendment to the (inaudible) Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I would move that we approve the findings of fact and conclusions of law as prepared for us by P & Z with the amendment that the property line to the west be in conjunction with the alley way or adjacent to the alley way be landscaped as per, landscaped and fenced as per the City ordinance and that there be no access the alley way by vehicular traffic. And to remove the requirement for the pavement of the alley way. Bentley: Second Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Morrow, second by Mr. Bentley, is there any further discussion? Roll call vote. ROLL CALL VOTE: Morrow -Yea, Bentley - Yea, Rountree -Yea, Tolsma - Yea f�1019to] L[41G1VVIaID7I_11VM.I Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 25 Corrie: Entertain a motion on the decision? Morrow: Mr. Mayor, the City Council of the City of Meridian hereby grants this rezone, the approval of this rezone requested by the applicant for the property described in the application with the conditions set forth in these findings of fact and conclusions of law as amended. That the property be required to meet the water and sewer requirements, the fire and life safety code requirement, uniform building code requirements, and other ordinances of the City of Meridian including that all parking areas shall be paved and the buffer zone and alley way issue be resolved by staff. Rountree: Second Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Morrow, second by Mr. Rountree to approve the decision as written plus the buffer zone addition to the decision, any further discussion? All those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea Morrow: Mr. Mayor (inaudible) instruct the City Attorney to prepare an ordinance for the zone change from R-4 to C -C for an antique, craft and collectible shop by Eugene Peters. Rountree: Second Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Morrow second by Mr. Rountree to have the City Attorney prepare an ordinance for the zone change, any further discussion? All those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea FIVE MINUTE RECESS ITEM #10: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR THE LAKE AT CHERRY LANE SUBDIVISION NO. 7 BY STEINER DEVELOPMENT: Corrie: At this time I will open the public hearing and ask if a representative from Steiner Development would like to speak first. Steve Bradbury, 300 N. 6t" Street, Boise, was sworn by the City Attorney. Bradbury: Mr. Mayor and members of the Council my name is Steve Bradbury, I have been asked to represent Steiner Development tonight. What you have before you I guess technically on the agenda is an application for a conditional use permit for a planned development for a 60 unit senior living development. You also have a preliminary plat which is the next item on the agenda. In order to save time I am going Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 26 to try to go through everything at one time and just incorporate my comments into the record for the second one. This is the last of a multi -part development project on what was Mr. & Mrs. Teters 40 acre parcel over on Ten Mile Road. In order to orient you, you might get behind tab 1 in the booklet that we passed out and pull out this color coded map so we can give you an idea of where we are. The colored portion of that map is the entire 40 acres and what you will recall you have approved in the past is the, in the westerly well a little over half of the property is a single family detached residential subdivision which is partly an R-4 zone which is in pink and partly an R-8 zone which is in blue. You have also previously passed upon and approved a single family detached single living subdivision or area of the subdivision which is shown in yellow. That is in the southeast quadrant. The parcel that we are talking about here tonight is the northeast quadrant of the 40 acres and is shown in orange on this map and the rest of the Lake at Cherry Lane Subdivision is of course also shown on the map. Hopefully that gives you an idea of just where we are. Now you will probably also recall that the concept for this project the entire project was to provide a variety of housing choices in a single planned area. What we have is we have traditional single family detached dwellings on 8,000 square foot lots, that is in the R-4 zones. Some similar sized homes and in slightly smaller lots those are 6,000 square foot lots in the R- 8 portion of the property that is the blue that I showed you on the map then we have the senior single family detached senior area which includes the club house which is in the yellow portion on the map. Now what Steiner Development is proposing is a more moderately priced senior area which consist of mostly two unit, zero lot line buildings and you can see a drawing of the proposed lay out (inaudible) there on the board in front of you. Most of them I said are two unit zero lot line buildings, there are also two three unit buildings and three four unit buildings. (Inaudible) most of them are two units. There is a total of 60 units on 60 separate building lots most of them being zero lot lines. Behind tab 1, but in front of the map, you will see a list of the kind of project features, it is the second page in behind tab one I believe. The size of the parcel is about 6 2/3 acre. You might recall and the staff pointed out in their report that this parcel was once shown as 7'/z acres. What we think has happened to those other, that over half plus that 2/3 acre or whatever it is, is that some of that ground got platted into the number 5 subdivision for the 20 foot landscape buffer out on Ten Mile Road. This ground hasn't diminished it is just that the area got calculated into a different phase of the project. The density of the project as you can see would be about 9 units per acre which of course is substantially less than the 15 units per acre maximum under the zone. The lot sizes range from 3200 square feet to about 4800 square feet and of course that exceeds the 2400 square foot minimum for the zone. The home sizes were proposed by Steiner Development to be 1160 square feet, the Planning and Zoning Commission recommended approval of this project with a requirement that the homes be a minimum of 1100 square feet. So the proposal exceeds the minimum by 60 square feet for each unit. We are asking for some relief from the set backs pursuant to the Planned Unit Development provisions of the City's code. Which in case you are interested is 9-607 E. What we are asking for is relief from the standard 20 foot front setback and the 20 foot street side set back so that the front set backs would be 18 feet and the street side yard setbacks would be 15 feet. The rear set backs are 15 and that Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 27 is standard in the zone. The internal side yard setbacks are 5 feet which is a standard in the zone. This request is consistent with what the City approved in senior development on the other side of the street with the one that was previous approved. The Planning and Zoning Commission by the way recommended approval of that relief. The structures are proposed to be single story, originally when this plan was first brought to you or shown to you some couple of years ago they were talking about 2 story town house development. Steiner development is committed to constructing a senior citizens project so the idea of two story structures didn't really make much sense and we figured that seniors are not likely to want to be going up and down stairs. That is one reason, the second reason is that we would they would like to keep the buildings with a little bit lower profile at the entry to the subdivision. As you recall this will be immediately adjacent to the very to the entry off of Ten Mile. We are trying to keep the buildings low in that location. In any event, what is being proposed is 60 units that previously we were showing 58 units in this area. So that doesn't change the number of units dramatically. The street frontages, required street frontages on each lot under the zone is 50 feet. The lots that are proposed for this project are 33 feet each except on the corners and they are something a little bit less. What we, I guess what we need to do is ask for relief from the standard 50 foot street frontage requirement. What I would like to suggest that you do and I think what the Planning and Zoning Commission recognized is that since we are talking about zero lot line units that is each building will consist of two units on two lots. So we will have a total of 66 feet of frontage for each building minimum 66 feet of frontage for each building. With the 4 unit buildings it will be even more than that. What you get is you get essentially the same amount of frontage for each building, you just don't have exactly that 50 foot frontage for each lot. I think what you end up with is as you can see is you end up with something that has essentially the appearance of single family dwelling or nearly to a single family dwelling on reasonably sized lots. So, what we are asking for is relief from the 50 foot street frontage requirement in order to comply with what is shown on the preliminary plat. Parking facilities, each unit will have at least a two car garage and there will be a drive way for each unit that will hold at least two cars. There is some off street parking that is shown on the plat (inaudible)that is a total of 12 spaces I believe. Consistent with what was approved for the senior project on the other side of the street we are asking for relief from the four foot set back requirement from the right of way. Typically of street parking needs to be four feet back from the street right of way. Since these are private streets and consistent with what was approved before we would like to be able to take access directly onto the street for these parking spaces. Essentially what we are talking about is these are used for guests. The streets will be proposed to be private streets on 40 feet of right of way, 28 feet of pavement, 2 feet of curb and gutter on each side. Steiner Development originally proposed a 4 foot sidewalk on one side the Planning and Zoning Commission preferred a five foot wide sidewalk on one side and that is what they recommended approval of and that is acceptable, we will go along with that. The streets would be constructed to the Ada County Highway District construction standards and all of that is also consistent with what was approved for the senior project across the street. On the next page of your booklet there you will find a list of amenities and I won't go through them all. One of them is the gated security entrance Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 28 we would like to provide some, a little more security for the residents of the subdivision similar to the one across the street. There will be the privacy wall that surrounds the project and that too is consistent what is approved for the project across the street. The 20 foot landscape buffer along Ten Mile Road. There is also a common area, the drawing that you see here shows the entrance to that common area between two lots here (inaudible). The common area consists of approximately'/2 acre. Now it is a dual purpose common area and it is going to sound a little bit funny to you but the engineers tell us it really works. What we have in mind here is that this area would be used as a drainage retention facility during the wet time of the year. It would drain out except when there are storms obviously, like last week there would be water in it and theoretically this week there wouldn't. Dry most of the year. The typical storm the engineers tell us would bring two feet of water into this area and it would take 48 hours to drain. In 100 year storm this area would have 4'/2 feet of water in it and then it would take a little bit longer to drain that out. The idea is to make use of these drainage areas rather than to have them simply be ponds when it is wet and weeds when it is dry. So this area would be improved with sod, let me back up a little bit. This area first of course there would be a pond developed into it and it would have sloping sides and then there would be a drainage facility constructed in the bottom of it according to engineering plans. Then it would be improved with sod on the sides and the bottom and it would be landscaped with trees and shrubs around the edges and there would be picnic tables and benches put in strategic locations and you can see that there is a proposed kind of gathering area gazebo area that would be built to the front. Obviously when it is wet and stormy that area would not be very usable. But of course when it is wet and stormy we are not expecting there will be too many people out wandering around wanting to use that area. On the other hand when in the spring and the summer and fall months when it is dryer that area will be usable rather than being a weed patch which I know the City is concerned with in some of the other subdivisions. So the idea is to make this a nice area that would be usable by the homeowners, it would be owned and maintained by the homeowners through the homeowners association. What else can I tell you, behind tab 2 in the book are the application materials, I don't know that we need to go through those unless you have any questions about any of them. Behind tab 3 in the booklet is a drawing of the preliminary plat, there are actually 2 versions one just shows the lot lines and the second shows the footprints of the buildings for those buildings on those lots. Behind tab 4 you will find a typical floor plan for a two unit building and a typical elevation for a two unit building. These are two bedroom, two bath, two car garage. Behind tab 5 you will find proposed construction materials for the units. I guess we are talking about stucco and siding colors and the type of brick accents and roofing materials and what not and we can talk about those if you are particularly interested in any of them. Of course we received the staff report for the Planning and Zoning Commission meeting and went through that in some little detail that night. We can go through it again a little bit more. For the most part the staff report is acceptable. Under general comments the number 8, the only concern that we have there is the requirement that the off street parking areas are not to be closer than 4 feet to any street right of way. Of course we are asking for relief from that particular requirement. Under the site specific comments and requirements, number one Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 29 pressurized irrigation, yes pressurized irrigation will be provided through the Nampa Meridian Irrigation District. It will be the same system that provides pressurized irrigation for the Lake at Cherry Lane No. 3 and 4 and 5 as they come on line. Street lights, yes, the developer would like to probably put in some more decorative street lighting rather than the standard stuff and we will work with staff to make sure that the staff is satisfied with the street lighting issues. The parking along number three, parking along the private roads, the proposal would be to treat these roads consistent with those across the street that is parking be permitted on one side of the street only. That would be a provision contained within the restrictive covenants to deal with that and the homeowners association would then be charged with the responsibility of enforcing it. Signs could be installed, whatever it is that the Fire Chief would like to have done is certainly satisfactory. Number 4, the developer understands that approval is subject to capacity in the waste water treatment plant. Number 5, we were talking about the size of the acreage and density, I already talked about that one. Number 6, the common areas as indicated with the common area that is shown with the recreation area along with the landscaping treatment that comes along down through here along the boundary and into entry, our engineers calculate that meets the required 10% under the code, actually it exceeds it. Number 7, sidewalk, yes, we are proposing rather than a four foot we are talking about a five foot sidewalk one side as P & Z suggested be approved. Number 8, Fair Housing Act, we intend to comply with all of the requirements of the Fair Housing Act. As a matter of fact just this past month I took another run at trying to understand the Fair Housing Act and discovered that last December the statute was amended significantly and new regulations are proposed and not yet final. But when they are made final of course we will do everything that is required in order to meet the requirements of that act and the regulations. Number 9, 1 think staff is expressing a little bit of frustration about the difficulty we have had in keeping all of the various phases of this project straight and consistent and moving along. I can give you a little bit of an update. Number 3 is built and lots are being sold. Number 4 has been approved for final plat approval, it has not yet been constructed because of the difficulty in obtaining required sewer easements. Last month a non - development agreement was submitted to the City Council which I understand the City Council passed upon with some changes and the City Attorney and I are trying to get our heads together to figure out exactly what it is we need to fix up on that. Number 5 has got final plat approval and is under construction. Number 6 has preliminary plat approval and final plat has been submitted and scheduled for consideration by the Council next month. That brings us to number 7 which is the one that we have here. So I think there has been fairly reasonable progress, progress is being made in the order of the development applications. What we would like to ask the Council not to do is to put the developer into a position where he is in a lock step where one project has to be completed before the next project can be started. That will simply make, it will not be very efficient and it will simply slow things down before, it has been slow enough without having that happen to us I think is what I am trying to say. Number 10, yes we will prepare restrictive covenants, I have a draft of the restrictive covenants that I have prepared for the project across the street and I expect these will be very similar to it. We can provide that to the City whenever they would like to see it. Number 11, staff is Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 30 suggesting that we perhaps should have 1300 square feet homes in this phase of the subdivision. Planning & Zoning recommended approval for 1100 which is consistent with what is proposed and we would ask the Council to do the same. Number 12, all ordinances of the City of Meridian shall be met, we understand that, subject of course to the various requests for relief that are embodied in this application. Finally number 13, the development agreement is required, we understand that, we will provide the City with a development agreement at just any stage of the proceedings that you might like. If you want to see a development agreement at final plat, if you would like to see it before final plat that is fine. You tell us when you want it and we will have it for you. With that I will answer any questions. Corrie: Council, questions? Rountree: Mr. Mayor, I haven't seen, I am just going to ask, have you submitted a written response to the City Staff's letter of November 8 " to the staff? Bradbury: Have not, would be pleased to do that if you would like. Rountree: It is part of their comments. Corrie: Steve, the common area is it also irrigated with sprinkler system, so when there isn't any water it will be green? Bradbury: Yes, the whole idea it to make it into something that would be usable. Bentley: On that common where you are going to have your drainage pond how much of that area is going to be actually usable to these seniors? Bradbury: Well theoretically the vast majority of it would be, as I recall, let me pull it out so I don't guess. I have these engineered drawings here. It is a little iffy to have a lawyer try to interpret engineering drawings but I am going to do my best because it looked to me like I looked at this distance before. The slopes, the area of slope in that area are going to be 15 feet wide, there will be a slope, I guess a 3 to 1 slope, so those sloped areas themselves the 15 feet that constitutes the slope probably won't be particularly usable for seniors. The rest of the area though would all be usable. So what we have is the, I am going to estimate the pond area is going to be in an area about like this. So you have the outside edges on the top and then you have all of the inside area in there that would all be usable. Of course the gazebo is not going to be in the water it will be above water. Then you can see that there are other areas there. (Inaudible) Bradbury: Except for the actual sloped portion of the pond itself, the theory is that the entire site, the entire lot would be usable space. Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 31 Bentley: Next, are all of these units, I haven't dug through the book, but are all of these going to be identical? Bradbury: The proposal is to create them to all be of the same floor plan and basic elevation. But cosmetically they can be different, they might have different treatments on the exterior treatments, slightly different brick treatments. Then there are going to be some color choices. Structurally and floor plan they are all the same. Morrow: Steve a question, I want to revisit this slope issue on the retention pond, you indicate that it is a 3 to 1 and the wall is 15 feet. That means from the, if I am understanding this correctly from the level at where the gazebo is the bottom of the retention pond is five feet below ground level? Bradbury: You can probably do the math better than I can, I had the idea we were about 4 feet, maybe 4'/2 (inaudible). Three to one you are right it would be five feet. Morrow: My follow up question here is how do you expect senior citizens to traverse that 3 to 1 slope to have access to the bottom so that it qualifies as green space. Bradbury: That is a good question and I didn't fully explain it. The front portion of that the entry way portion here will be a 4 to 1 so it won't be as steep. The idea is to put in some also to provide ramps and steps so that people can get down into it and in and out of that area. Morrow: I guess my concern here is that a senior citizens housing project if you are going to use that as green space to qualify for the 10% requirement and it is going to be usable a good percentage of these folks may have canes, they may have walkers and so on and so forth. I think what you will find very candidly is that 3 to 1 and 4 to 1 slopes are just not acceptable for those folks. Bradbury: I have no doubt that you are right, certainly about the 3 to 1 and you could very well be right about the 4 to 1. If the City would like to see an alternate arrangement for access into the area I am sure we will do it. We certainly don't want, one of the things you have to understand this is conceptual. That is that the idea for the use of this is not carved in stone but that is the proposal is something we would like to see accomplished. If you are concerned about access let us know we will do something with it. Morrow: I think the issue in my mind is that if it is going to count as usable green space, it has to be usable. Bradbury: You have to be able to get to it and I agree with that. Morrow: The rules that apply to senior citizens don't apply to the normal public. Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 32 Bradbury: What if just as a suggestion what if we were to suggest that there be a condition imposed that area be made accessible under the requirements of the ADA, does that do it? Morrow: That is fine as far as I am concerned. Bradbury: Maybe that can take care of it. Morrow: I guess my next question is, this is a hypothetical question and it was alluded to by the staff, based on my recent experience in other areas plus one before our Council in terms of La Playa is that the concept here in terms of joint ownership and small lots and so on and so forth, hasn't worked in the marketplace in Treasure Valley, Idaho. I guess and certainly this is the private sector, it is not up to us to dictate what the private sector is going to do and try because there may be a new gimmick here that does work. I guess from my standpoint is if the concept fails, does this layout lend itself to conversion of something that we don't end up with a problem like we have at La Playa for example. Again, I guess maybe that is a word of caution. From my perspective is we are approving this and buying this and if for whatever reasons it fails, you are basically stuck. Bradbury: I understand your concern and I have to tell you I am not a marketing person either as you all know, I am just a lawyer. So I have to think that these guys aren't going to invest the kind of money that they are going to have to invest on this project without having given that some thought. I guess I share your observation that yes this is the private sector and if they don't do it, if it doesn't work it is on their nickel and I think these guys understand that. Morrow: The point I am making is don't come to governmental sector and expect us to bail your buns out of an issue that you got yourselves into. Bradbury: I understand, caution dully noted. Bentley: Mr. Mayor, I have a question too on the, with the narrow streets and sidewalks on one side and controlled parking on one side, what are you going to do with the seniors that decide to go strolling around out there with cars parked on one side and no sidewalks on the side they are on? Bradbury: Because we have a rather controlled environment our thinking is that with the gated entrance that the only people who are going to be coming and going are the people that live their and their guests. And I am going to tell you just what I think, that is, I don't think we are going to see a lot of traffic, a lot of activity in and out of this place. I don't think. Because it is in a relatively controlled area and it is a relatively confined space I don't think that sidewalks on one side are going to be too hard to find. I think if people want to get onto a sidewalk at most all they are going to have to do is walk across the street in order to get there. The parking issue, again, we have plenty of Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 33 parking spaces for the residents and most of the time any guests that would be there because we have on each unit four parking spots. So the restrictive covenants that I just drafted and which are proposed for across the street would prohibit parking on the street by residents and only for guests. So it would be only those occasions where there are theoretically more than two car loads of people visiting any one unit at any one time that we are going to see too much on the street, I think. So, I understand your concern but I think because this is a relatively controlled environment I don't foresee that there are likely to be any conflicts. Bentley: What type of mail delivery are you going to have in there? Bradbury: I don't know the answer to that question. Bentley: If it is curb delivery that is going to impact your sidewalks too. Bradbury: I have to think that it is going to be curb delivery although I did talk to Mr. Campbell about putting a single delivery spot out at some location in the project. The concept is something that I think the developer might like to try. Assuming the post office would agree to it. Bentley: I don't think the seniors are going to like it. Bradbury: They would have to walk to get their mail so they may not be too happy about that, I don't know. It is a good question and I don't know the answer to it. Tolsma: This 18 foot setback you propose, does that include the sidewalk? Bradbury: It does not, the sidewalk would be in addition. Actually if you look at the street section on the plat Tolsma: What I was getting at (inaudible) Bradbury: One of the things, and we talked about that a little bit at the Planning and Zoning Commission too. What we have with 40 feet of right of way, only, well it would be 37 feet of that would be improved. (Inaudible) so we have an extra 3 feet of right of way unimproved right of way. What the Planning and Zoning Commission suggested that be done in order to solve the very problem that you are talking about is to be certain that the improvements are centered in the right of way such that there is some additional space on either side of the street so that we won't have the conflict, so that we provide a maximum amount of space in front of each lot, from the building to the actual improvements of the right of way. So what we end up with is I guess 3 extra feet that we can work with there. Which helps some, perhaps doesn't help in the case of the suburban that gets parked there that would certainly be long. I think we can, by laying the thing out we can minimize the concern that you have got. Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 34 Bentley: Now, how does that apply to the lots that don't have sidewalks? Bradbury: It will be exactly the same thing, because we have got 37, the sidewalk is not included in the 18 feet all right so we will have an equal amount of space on either side. The space would be the same on either side. (Inaudible) Bentley: But the problem would be though if we have the big car that he is talking about on the side of the street that doesn't have a sidewalk, and instead of overhanging on the sidewalk he is overhanging now on the street. Bradbury: Well no because we will have there will be an extra, the, some additional distance that is not included in the 18 foot setback (Inaudible) it just won't be improved. So there will be that extra space, that is part of the right of way. For all intensive purposes it is going to look like a part of the lot because it will be landscaped. Corrie: Any further questions? Thank you Steve, anyone else from the public that would like to issue testimony on the request for a conditional use permit? Tolsma: Mr. Mayor, I probably have to ask the Council here if I should declare a conflict of interest mainly because these two people here that (inaudible) Crookston: You do need to declare that you feel that way and make the declaration and then it is up to the Council as to whether or not should be allowed to submit a vote or participate in the proceedings at all. Morrow: Mr. Tolsma, I think the answer this time is the same as it was last time, we are not going to let you off the hook as far as I am concerned. Rountree: But you can make that decision on your own. Morrow: I don't have a problem with you making a decision given your history of long standing fairness, that is fine. (Inaudible) I don't have a problem with that either. Corrie: Mr. Tolsma it is up to you. Tolsma: I don't have a problem with it, I just wanted to make sure the Council was aware of that. Corrie: Council is all in agreement that the conflict of interest is not there. So you are back on (inaudible). Hearing no other testimony I will close the public hearing. Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I have some questions of staff, would you please re -open the hearing so that the staff comments could be part of it? Corrie: Okay, I will re -open the public hearing. Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 35 Morrow: Thank you, Gary and Shari, in the past when we have had a private road situation it seems to me and I am thinking that it was Ashford Greens in particular one of the requirements that the City Council placed on private roads within the homeowners association was that there be a fund established for repair and maintenance of those roads. I want to make sure that any application that comes before us with private roads if we are going to accept those private roads that is comments in terms of site specific or whatever that same funding mechanism and requirement be included in any application for private roads so that at such time those roads need to be repaired they can be repaired and not do as we have seen done in other areas that there is an attempt to have them made public so that the burden of repairing the roads is placed on us the general public and not on those that have benefited from it. Smith: Yes Councilman Morrow, Mayor and Council, as I recall from Ashford Greens No. 2 subdivision that is the case, the Council placed a requirement on them to establish a sinking fund that would generate moneys to replace the roadways and I believe there was a ten year time period placed in there that the money would be available after ten years to completely replace the roadway. Morrow: Was that not done with negotiations back and forth between, the numbers that were arrived at with (inaudible) Smith: I think their traffic engineer had submitted that information to you. Those requirements I believe to be part of the CC&R's. Morrow: Was that to be included in the development agreement and addressed in there also, I am asking I don't know, was it just the CC&R's? Smith: Shari said Ashford didn't have one, a development agreement. Morrow: That same thing would apply to this and any other private road. Smith: We would recommend that be made a requirement from the City Council, yes sir. Morrow: I guess what I am asking in the future in terms of site specific comments could you include that verbiage in your site specific comments? Smith: Yes we will. Morrow: Thank you Corrie: Did I understand it would be in the CC&R's or the development agreement one of the two? Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 36 Smith: Or both yes sir. May I make a couple of comments concerning this plat? Corrie: Go ahead. Smith: Number as Mr. Bradbury commented we would like to receive written comments responding to the staff comments. The second item that I would like to address is the drainage pond, I don't know the elevation of the pond bottom at this point but there is standing water in the pond. There has been and there was before we were diluted with rain, I am concerned with the depth of that pond there is going to be water in it. We are not in a high ground water period of time right now. The chief made a comment, I think that area could be used year round, could ice skate in the winter, fish in the spring, water ski in the summer, duck hunt in the fall. On a more serious note, we are right at this moment making a study of our water system in that area, the Cherry Lane Village area and I don't have any information that I can give you. We have got some areas in Cherry Lane Village that are experiencing some low water pressure and we don't know why. But, I am supposed to have some preliminary information back by the end of this week. I just want you to know and the applicant to know that we have got to get that figured out before we can start plumbing any more homes into our water system. The pressurized irrigation system is critical as far as the use of domestic water. It is an absolute requirement as far as I am concerned that these subdivisions be connected to a pressurized irrigation system when the first building permit is issued. That system is going. Not only from the standpoint of utilizing irrigation water that is available in lieu of putting domestic water on the ground. But also, we circumvent a resident having a double connection. Making connection to the City system and then later connecting to the irrigation system that has been required. I don't know the status of the irrigation system, Mr. Campbell maybe can enlighten us on that right now. But as I understand it it is mostly done, this irrigation system is a combined effort that is supposed to supply irrigation water to Firelight I believe and I am not sure if Englewood is involved in that, I think it is. And also the Lake at Cherry Lane, all of the phases of the Lake at Cherry Lane. As Mr. Bradbury outlined the Lake at Cherry Lane No. 3 off site improvements have been constructed, that is the streets, everything has been built there, homes are being constructed and there have been some homes that had to be connected to the City water system for sprinkling purposes. That was an agreement that I made with Mr. Campbell the minute that pressurized irrigation system is available those houses are disconnected from that irrigation system. But the important thing is that irrigation system be completed before irrigation season starts Spring of 1997. As far as the use of the pond area to ADA purposes, Shari informed that the maximum slope on an ADA bases is 12 to 1. If we are going to be five feet in the ground that is 60 feet horizontally. So, you may have to look at that again. The other concern that both Shari and I have and just discussing it informally is how the amount of open space was calculated. It doesn't appear on a visual basis that there is 10% of open space outside of the platted lots. I think we need to see some drawings, scaled, calculated drawings that show yes there is a minimum of 10% open space if this is a PUD. I guess that they have answered for the most part the comments that were made on site specific item 9, which Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 37 concerns the numbering and the development of the different phases of the subdivision. (End of Tape) We would like to see the CC&R's submitted as soon as possible. They should be submitted with the preliminary plat at least a draft copy of the CC&R's that is an ordinance requirement. I think as far as the development agreement is concerned we would like to see that developed as soon as possible also. I think the more of these documents that we get up front the better off we are all going to be when we get to a final plat stage. That is all I have Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Do you have all of these conditions that he is referring to? Bradbury: I wrote down notes as Gary went along. The written responses to the staff comments we can have those things back to you this week, next week at the latest. The concern with the depth of the pond and the ground water, we recognize that too, I say we, the owners recognize that too. The engineer has been retained to come up with a solution to that. Some preliminary engineering plans have been prepared which would utilize a combination drainage system, perforated pipe and a bed liner in order to prevent ground water and surface water from coming together. We have those preliminary drawings now, they are not final but we should be able to submit those for Gary to take a look at any time real soon. Water system, okay, we have water pressure problems, we understand we have to resolve that issue first. Pressurized irrigation system, it essentially completed, the pumps are installed, the lines are in. I don't know what else is required other than just turning it on and making it work. I guess we probably don't want to do that until this spring. The issue on access to the common area, yes, that is a legitimate concern and I think that what we would propose to do is provide you folks with some sort of a drawing that would show you how we propose to solve that problem. Open space calculations we had some, I was leafing through my file, I can't find them, we will have to provide those to Gary and would be happy to do that too. Restrictive covenants, we can have a proposed set of restrictive covenants for Gary to look at, probably the same time that we have these other materials that is in another week I would think. A development agreement, I am going to suggest that we probably need to sit down with staff and decide just exactly what we want with respect to a development agreement. That is, do we want to talk about a development agreement that covers all 4 acres, all three phases of this project. Do we want a separate development agreement for each of the three phases of the project. I want to try and make it so it is not too complicated but at the same time I think we want to cover all of the bases. So I suggest that we sit down with staff and figure out what the best route might be. Once we can come to an understanding on that we will get you one. Bentley: You mentioned that talking about a pond liner, if you are having trouble getting rid of the water without it, how are you going to get rid of it with it? Bradbury: The idea of the liner is to keep ground water or surface water from mingling but the whole system here is designed to drain into the Nine Mile Drain. That pond is just a collecting pond and then with the drainage structure all of the water eventually Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 38 goes into the Nine Mile Drain which has been approved pursuant to a license agreement with Nampa Meridian. Tolsma: So you also in that proposed (inaudible) Bradbury: We will sure see if we can't figure out a way to properly depict that. Tolsma: I think there is a drain ditch that (inaudible) Bradbury: I don't know exactly what they have done with it, but I understand that ditch was their and has been taken into account in the entire scheme, the drainage scheme out there. Unfortunately we don't have an engineer here tonight who can address those engineering concerns and I have just got to rely on Mr. Jacobs to, I guess Mr. Jacobs (inaudible) Mr. Smith gets to look at it and Ada County Highway District gets to look at it and I suspect that the Ada County Engineer might have an opportunity to look at the drainage issues on this thing. I understand that there are some drainage concerns but the engineers are working on those. We certainly want to make sure that Mr. Smith is entirely satisfied. I am making a note about the car parking here. Tolsma: (Inaudible) Corrie: Any further comments or questions? Morrow: My concern is about this drainage pond and the fact that it is going to be counted as landscape area. I think that what Mr. Bradbury describes is accurate to this extent that it does go into the Nine Mile Drain. But the reality is that it is designed in such a manner to settle out in (inaudible) and so the elevation and the drain line is some distance above the bottom of the pond allowing sediment to settle out so in reality the water could stay in the pond pretty much as Mr. Smith has observed now for a portion of the year. I guess the second thing is in terms of comments is from my standpoint we are dealing with 7 or 8 major issues that need to be resolved. I think that is clearly outside of what we ought to approve tonight subject to all of these things being resolved. I would like to see the resolution of most of these things in the public arena before the Council and have it be a matter of public record. From that standpoint I think I would be inclined to support a motion of some sort that continues the public hearing until our next meeting to give the staff and representatives of Steiner an opportunity to resolve these 8 or 9 issues and then come back before Council and present those issues in the public forum and adopt them as part of the public record. Bentley: I would agree, I think we have a couple of pretty major issues here especially on this drainage pond that I think need to be addressed. I too think it should be continued. Rountree: I have been looking at this thing for the last 25 minutes trying to figure out why I would as a consumer want to live in this community and I can't find anything Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 39 appealing about the whole concept. It is so squeezed in there it is about ready to pop. I think that there needs to be consideration for open space more than what has been given. It appears that this open space is more of a side line, a spin off if you will to accommodate the engineering requirements of drainage for the community. At a minimum it looks to me like they are probably going to lose 4 units to even accommodate their drainage needs in that area. I can't say that I am particularly excited about 60 units that all look the same. Maybe there is a magic price point for this kind of housing that will make them look good, I can't see it. I agree there are some significant issues that need to be resolved and maybe by continuing the hearing I might find some redeeming factors in this particular proposal. Tolsma: I think we need to continue the public hearing (inaudible) Corrie: It seems to be pretty unanimous of the Council, I would entertain a motion for continuance of public hearing. Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I would move that we continue the public hearing on both agenda items 10 and 11 those being the request for conditional use permit for the Lake at Cherry Lane Subdivision No. 7 by Steiner Development, I am sorry I wish to start the motion again because we are only dealing with item 10. Mr. Mayor I would move the public hearing for the request for conditional use permit for the Lake at Cherry Lane (inaudible) until January 21, 1997 to allow our staff and the representatives of Steiner Development to work out the 8 or 9 issues that have been discussed tonight that have not been resolved. Bentley: Second Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Morrow, second by Mr. Bentley to continue the public hearing on item 10 request for conditional use permit for the Lake at Cherry Lane No. 7, any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea ITEM #11: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A PRELIMINARY PLAT FOR THE LAKE AT CHERRY LANE NO. 7 BY STEINER DEVELOPMENT: Corrie: At this time I will open the public hearing, Mr. Bradbury. Steven Bradbury, 300 N. 6t" Street, Boise, was sworn by the City Attorney. Bradbury: I have no additional comments, I would simply like to ask that the comments made in the previous item be incorporated into the record into this one and suggest that in light of the tabling of the previous to simply table this item as well. Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 40 Corrie: Noted and recorded. Anybody from the public that would like to enter public testimony at this time? Hearing none I will entertain a motion of Council. Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I would move that we continue the public hearing for the preliminary plat for the Lake at Cherry Lane No. 7 by Steiner Development. Bentley: Second Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Morrow, second by Mr. Bentley to continue the public hearing for request of preliminary plat for the Lake at Cherry Lane No. 7 until the meeting of January 21, 1997, any further discussion? All those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea ITEM #12: MARTY GOLDSMITH: DISCUSSION OF SALMON RAPIDS NO. 3: Corrie: Is there anyone here? Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, I believe the motion at the last meeting was to table that until the 21St Corrie: That was the original motion, so that will be on the 21 St, it was on the agenda by mistake. Smith: Mr. Mayor, on Salmon Rapids No. 3, in reading the minutes the Council wanted to visit a little bit about this I guess with me. You were going to consider it, I don't know if that was individually if you wanted to meet with me in my office before the next Council meeting. The impression that I got from the minutes was that you wanted some conversation to take place between yourselves and staff before the Council meets on the 21St to consider this issue. Did I misunderstand that or how did you want me to proceed because there was some concern by Councilman Rountree there was concern by Councilman Morrow and I don't know if the other two councilmen had similar concerns, I don't recall, that you wanted to think about this situation. If you want to get together with me individually just give me a call and we can do that before that 21St meeting. Tolsma: I think that had to do with the extension of the sewer line (inaudible) Corrie: So Council if you will check in with Gary we can get those questions answered. ITEM #13: WATER/SEWER/TRASH DELINQUENCIES: Corrie: This is the cut off schedule for January 8, 1997, this is to inform you in writing if you choose to have the right to a predetermined hearing at 1-7-97 before the Mayor and City Council to appear in person and be judged on the facts and defend the claim Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 41 made by this City that your water, sewer and trash bill is delinquent. You may retain counsel. This service will be discontinued on 1-8-97 unless payment is received in full. Is there anyone present that wishes to contest their water, sewer, and trash delinquency? Hearing none, you are hereby informed that you may appeal and have the decision of the City reviewed by the Fourth Judicial District Court pursuant to Idaho Code. Even though they appeal their water will be shut off. The amount of the turn off list is $14,513.21. We are making progress folks. Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I would move that we approve the shut off list. Tolsma: Second Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Morrow, second by Mr. Tolsma to approve the shut off list, any further discussion? All those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea ITEM #14: APPROVE BILLS: Bentley: I move that we approve the bills. Rountree: Second Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bentley, second by Mr. Rountree to approve the bills, any further discussion? All those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea ITEM #15: DEPARTMENT REPORTS: Corrie: Chief Gordon? Gordon: Nothing Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Shari Stiles? Stiles: Nothing Corrie: Mr. Smith? Smith: Mr. Mayor, I didn't get on the agenda officially but I did have a bid opening Friday on a pump station, can I present that to the Council? Mr. Mayor and Council members we had a bid opening at 3:00 on Friday, last Friday, which was January 3rd We opened bids for pump and pump house for Well No. 17 which was previously drilled. We received five bids and my Assistant Engineer Brad Watson did some Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 42 compilation of the bids and some background checks for experience for the low bidder and I will pass that out to you right now. The first two pages concern the background of Mr., the low bidder which was Irminger Inc., the bid results are on the third page. The low bid by Irminger, Inc. is 163,017,98, that includes the bid items that were listed to the left side of the page which will equip the well that was previously drilled by Riverside Inc. out of Parma. Well No. 17 if you are not familiar with it is located at the entrance to Los Alamitos Subdivision off of Locust Grove Road. The background check and experience check that Brad did for me the references were all rather glowing. We don't have any reason to not recommend that you award this bid to Mr. Irminger so that would be the City's Engineer's recommendation to you. If you have any questions I can try and answer those for you I will. Corrie: Council, question of Mr. Smith? Morrow: I have one Mr. Mayor, Gary you indicated on or at least Lynd Hoover has indicated in his recommendation that Stocky Plumbing is listed as a subcontractor in this proposal, is that correct? Smith: Yes Morrow: Having been such I would like to stress to the Council that Stocky Plumbing is a plumber who does work for my construction company so I would ask if that represents a conflict in terms of me voting on this issue? Rountree: Do you own interest in Stocky? Morrow: I do not. Corrie: I assume that you were not aware of his subcontract at the time (inaudible) Morrow: I was not aware until this proposal was given to us at this moment that Stocky Plumbing was a subcontractor. Corrie: Council, any problems? Morrow: I do business on a monthly basis with Stocky Plumbing. Corrie: Any objection from Council? Do you want to stay then? Morrow Yes sir, that being the case Mr. Mayor, I would move that we accept the bid from Iminger Inc. for the Well No. 17 pumping facilities in the amount of $183,017,98 and that we authorize the Mayor to sign and the clerk to attest that contract. Rountree: Second Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 43 Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Morrow, second by Mr. Rountree, one question you said $183,017.98? Morrow: Yes that is a typo on my deal, it is actually $163,017.98. Corrie: Okay, (Inaudible) you heard the motion by Mr. Morrow, and second by Mr. Rountree for the approval of Iminger Inc. for $163,017.98, all those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea Smith: The only other thing I need to do this evening is put together an organizational chart for public works and building department. I will pass a copy of that out to each one of you for you to look at. If you have any comments get a hold of me. Corrie: Thank you Gary, Mr. Johnson do you have anything this evening? Johnson: No Corrie: Mr. Crookston? Crookston: Nothing Corrie: Mr. Morrow? Morrow: A couple of things, first is to remind the Council that the transportation committee meets tomorrow evening. I don't have any input from any of you for special projects. So unless I have some in my box by start of the meeting tomorrow night we will press on with our normal meeting. Mr. Tolsma cannot be there due to a conflict so if one of the other Councilmen would like to attend in his place I would be more than happy to have you there. That would take care of that. I want to know about the status of the enclaves, we talked at our last meeting about setting up a format by which we can do an annexation and zoning of the enclaves. Are we preliminarily underway with the procedure for that to happen. I guess Gary it would be one of your departments or Shari. Also, we have talked about and do not yet have in ordinance form but at our first meeting of January of each year electing Council President and Council Vice President, I guess my question would be is that do we want to do that tonight or in fact wait until we have the ordinance completed? Corrie: Where are we on the ordinance? Morrow: Well we are to the point now where in our last strategic planning session we had prototype ordinance for three or four things. Each Councilman was supposed to review, give that to Wayne so that we could come with a composite for a trial finished Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 44 ordinance. And then once moving through that have a final ordinance ready for adoption. Corrie: Council's pleasure? Rountree: It would be my preference that we wait to do that coincident with the approval of the ordinance. Morrow: The last question that I have is I have been asked by several City employees the status of their insurance policies that we don't have any answers for them. I would like to find out what it is that we are doing in the insurance thing if anything. I know that there have been no contracts or proposed contracts presented to the Council for their approval or for their renewal contract. So is anybody aware specifically of anything going on with that insurance? Corrie: Yes, it is the same as it is has always been. We are getting a read out for the Council and also for the employees of what they have. There are some employees that didn't even know what they had here. So we are getting, the policy is the same there is no change whatsoever. We change the agent of record because the company said that they were going to work with the employees and the employee meetings. We haven't changed anything, actually Blue Cross has given us a little more coverage and as soon as I have that all put together we will give it to council and also the employees. There is no increase, at a five percent increase rate from Blue Cross which is across the board from everything. Morrow: So when that package is put together then the renewal contract will be presented to the Council for its approval and then authorization. Corrie: Right, actually it comes due the first of the year. We didn't have any contracts given to us at that time. So we will have it all, probably by the 21 st. Morrow: And then we review it and do the authorization for signature and attesting. Corrie: We had to keep it going because if we didn't we had an interruption of coverage. Morrow: Then hopefully we will deal with that at the Council meeting of the 21 St. Other than the status of the enclaves I think that is everything that I have Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Okay, we want to work with that at the 28th, well we will know that next meeting. Morrow: I am sorry, one more issue, it may very well be that at the strategic planning meeting on its normal schedule, both Mr. Tolsma and I may be out of town for our annual trip to Phoenix. That is the 28th, so I guess the question would be is do we want to move that meeting up or do we want not to have it this month for the lack of a quorum? Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 45 Corrie: For a planning meeting you don't need a quorum (inaudible) Rountree: If we could move it up I think it would benefit to have everybody there. I don't know what schedules are like. Corrie: Well how long are you going to be gone, that full week? Morrow: Well I don't know the schedules for now but it could be anywhere from the 25th through the 3rd or 4th. The 25th being Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and back the following Sunday night or Monday at the latest. Corrie: Let's tentatively schedule it for the 23rd then and then or the 22nd Bentley: I will have to check the basketball schedule. Smith: Mr. Mayor, we have 2 Planning and Zoning meetings next week, Tuesday and Thursday and then we would have a Council meeting on the 21 St , staff is wilting a little bit. Morrow: Well I am not so sure Gary if we had a staff meeting, let's say if we had it on the 23rd that it is necessary for all of staff to be there. Because we can be dealing with ordinances and those kinds of things that we are trying to get (inaudible) and ready to go. (Inaudible) Corrie: Well let's possibly think about the 23rd or 22nd and kick it around and see where we are. Rountree: When should we get back? Corrie: Let's do it (inaudible) about the 15th to Will or myself. Anything else Walt? Morrow: No sir. Corrie: Glenn? Bentley: I have a whole list of things here. The only thing that I have got is the rec center survey has gone out and starting to come back. That is all I know. Corrie: Charlie? Rountree: The Parks Department has asked me to bounce off and give the Council some food for thought in terms of registration fees for the park and the activities and facilities over there. At this point in time we charge a $10 registration fee flat, correct? Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 46 Smith: Reservation, yes. Rountree: And that reserves a shelter. What they are seeing is that a lot of folks are hearing that and getting rather large (inaudible) that is the best deal in the country side. Compared to Boise they have a prorated charge set up for a number of people in order to take care of the additional cost associated with registration and reservation of those facilities in terms of clean up, set up, tables, what not, they have it set up by number of people, number of tables, that sort of thing. The Parks Department would like the Council to consider that and possibly amend the ordinance to look at that kind of a schedule. I will get this information that Gary provided me from Boise to you for you to consider. We may want to talk about that at the strategic planning meeting. Morrow: May I ask a question Mr. Mayor, could you also at that same (inaudible) have maybe a proposed fee schedule that the Parks Department would like to see as part of that package? Rountree: I am sure we could work something out. Morrow: Then we can deal with the issue fairly quickly prior to the part of the season. Rountree: We have plenty of time. But between now and the first of May. Morrow: Time slips away when you are having fun. Rountree: Okay, first of March. The Parks and Recreation Commission would like to get a read from Council on where they are about the consideration of either a part time or full time parks director? Morrow: Do you want an answer tonight? Rountree: Just a sense, not a vote of confidence. Morrow: Mr. Mayor, from my perspective I think that the Parks Department is going to b our next aggressive growth thing given the residential activity that we had last year with Park impact fees. I think we are within a couple of years of being able to develop the regional park at Meridian Road and Ustick. It seems to me that in this coming budget year that we ought to bring on board a full time director or parks and recreation. Probably a degreed person with recreation or background experience. Take applications for that and have that person involved in the coordination of all of the taxpayer owned facilities and those kinds of things and it seems to me that person ought to come on board as quickly as possible to implement the concept of utilizing school facilities, Western Ada Recreation Facilities and so on and so forth. So from my perspective I see that as a key player to be brought on as quickly as possible. Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 47 Bentley: I would agree, but you are confusing me, you are talking about bringing them on now or are you talking about bringing them on next budget year? Morrow: Budget year, we can't bring them on now we have no budget for it. Bentley: I agree Rountree: To let you know where they are coming from they recognize their limitations in terms of a volunteer group. I think that a good portion of them recognize that in order for the City to be effective in that area we need somebody who can provide continuity. So they are very supportive of that, they would like them as soon as possible. Okay, had another item discussed at the last meeting about the city's willingness to support additional rec programs similar to the summer program but maybe something that would be in the Fall or winter, the sport that was identified was basketball. Apparently PAL has an opportunity and has some facilities identified that they were not willing to take it on as a PAL project but some of the people in that organization indicated that if the City could sponsor this in some way they could get a rec youth basketball program going. (Inaudible) Rountree: Probably very similar to the Y program. Berg: The Y Ball (inaudible) Rountree: (Inaudible) I don't know what all that would involve but I think that probably some Berg: Well most of the grade schools in Meridian School District are dealt with the YMCA Ball, girls and boys. Rountree: Right, it is Coed. Morrow: You will have to walk me through this because I don't have any expertise in it. Why do you do a basketball program if the schools are doing a basketball program, do you do that off season or different season or what is the issue? Rountree: The issue was that apparently there was sufficient interest expressed by some publics that the programs that are out there are either limited or full. To be honest with you the Y program runs for 6 weeks. Berg: It varies but yes, they have staggered different age groups, girls one time and boys another time. Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 48 Rountree: But any one age group I think six games which would be 6 weeks plus the initial practices leading up to that. I think that is what precipitated the discussion. Morrow: From my point of view it seems to me that again that is something for the next budget year but certainly if you have a full time recreation parks director it would be part of the program that he or she would put forth as a proposal to the Council. Rountree: I agree with that, that is the guidance I will provide. That is all I have. Corrie: Mr. Tolsma? Tolsma: I have nothing. Corrie: I have a couple three that I need to go with. One, the Planning and Zoning Commission appointment. I discussed this with Jim Johnson and also have met with Sharon Spencer and talked with her. Consequently I would like to recommend to the Council to replace Jim Shearer with Sharon Spencer. The time would be 1/97 to 1- 2002. Morrow: Question, what occupation is Ms. Spencer in? Corrie: She is in building. Morrow: She is a builder? Corrie: Yes Morrow: I have a problem with that, not from the standpoint of the person, I have a problem from the standpoint with respect to it being a builder. Currently on the P & Z we have an independent businessman, we have two engineers and we have one builder, this would make a second builder. Although those are representatives of my own industry I don't think that represents a cross section of our community. I think that we need on a P & Z a designated builder seat and a designated, excuse me a designated builder/developer seat and a designated engineer/architect seat. The remaining three seats ought to be members of the general public so that we don't get a bias of one industry in terms of how we view and deal with these projects and how we develop our community to represent what those that are citizens of the community truly want to have. I guess that I would vote for this person for because it is somebody willing to serve on almost any capacity but I don't think that I can honestly support that person with the occupation on the P & Z at this time. It seems to me that it is unfair to the community. Corrie: Other comments? Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 49 Rountree: I guess I don't feel quite as strongly as Walt but I, in terms of having to establish seats or technical levels of competence for the P & Z folks. I still think that we need a citizen representative and I think this gives us an opportunity to do that that is not represented by a group that is currently on P & Z. I don't know Ms. Spencer and if she is willing to do it I would give her a gold star. But I still, I go back to the comment I made I think the last time we made appointments for the Committees and I think the City needs to do some outreach to the community. Develop some lists of people that are interested in doing these kinds of things and have some kind of an advertised selection process so we don't get fingered as trying to direct Planning and Zoning or even try to load the Council with a group or a certain expertise. I guess I am hard pressed to vote to support this individual from a technical standpoint but their willingness speaks volumes so I am a little torn what to do. I guess I would maybe give it back to you Bob and say if you could do some research and if this is the best and most willing individual out there I will support it 100% but I would like to see, this is a pretty significant issue, pretty significant group of folks that we rely on heavily that maybe now is the time that we go out and solicit some input from the public through the Valley News, the Statesman and say we have this vacancy are there any interested folks. We are looking for a concerned citizen primarily. Corrie: I had three approach me on this and two I eliminated for obvious reasons, one was with an agenda and the other was not qualified. I was looking for somebody with an architectural background but I don't seem to have any left in town at this point. I did talk to Shannon quite a bit and she, her impression of the job was one that she wanted to help with the community. She has lived here practically all of her life I guess and (inaudible). Is she actually in the building profession as such, Jim, I don't know her that well? Morrow: She does own a building company. Johnson: We didn't do an extensive search, we didn't advertise for candidates or people that were interested. I have known Shannon for probably ten years, Will Berg has known her longer than that. As you know she is the daughter of Norm Fuller and sister of Chuck Fuller who are also in the building industry. But Shannon is a person who is in my opinion is her own person and just because she comes from the building industry doesn't necessarily mean that she is going to support issues that would favor that industry in my opinion any more so than Ron Tolsma would favor his aunt and uncle or Walt Morrow might favor his (End of Tape) Candidates that Bob has made reference to and I would agree with him in his assessment of that situation. So Bob came to me and wanted to know my opinion and whether I had any objection to her serving and we did talk specifically about the fact that she would be representing the building industry. But I don't see that as a total negative and that is my comments with respect to her nomination. Corrie: Thank you Jim. Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 50 Rountree: Well I guess a comment, I respect Jim's endorsement or acceptance of this individual and that speaks well to me. I still would like to see possibly some additional, some pro -active effort on the part of the City as opposed to just. I know when I was nominated to P & Z it was kind of the same kind of thing, I let them know I was interested. There may be some people that are interested that just don't know that the opportunity exists. Johnson: If I might, that is a good point, and I think there are two openings right now in Eagle and I know the Eagle paper this week came out with a solicitation to the public. Anyone interested in serving on Planning and Zoning, I don't think we have done that and I think that would be a good idea for the future. Corrie: I agree 100%, the fact is that it is going to be a requirement from now on. Morrow: Mr. Mayor, if I might add, it seems to me to take Councilman Rountree's analysis a step further, it may make a lot of sense for us to advertise as a City for a pool of folk not only for this specific seat but a pool of folk in general. Then maybe put together an interview committee when we are looking at someone for a position and if we have an appropriate response the interview committee narrows it down to 2 or 3 individuals from which they recommend to the Mayor to offer one to of those tow or three to the Council for conformation and then press on from there. I am sensitive and I truly respect my dear friend and colleague Mr. Johnson's opinion concerning this person but I still think that even the perception of bias should never appear within government. Here it is a very short step to say that it is industry oriented when you have two engineers and you have two builders comprise your P & Z and that it seems to me you can justify one architect or engineer position and one builder or developer position or a person that is a combination of both for their expertise that they bring to it from a technical standpoint and then have other facets or areas of the community represented. Maybe a pool of applicants, I am sorry, maybe a pool of those willing to serve the City in any capacity would give us a broader base from which to ask from the interview from and then pick the best available. Maybe that is what we want to look at. Johnson: I might just comment on one thing there. I think when you try to put titles on people, engineers, builders, Malcolm MacCoy is one of the engineers you are talking about, well he is a retired Lockheed engineer that had really no ties to this area until he moved here. He is really in my opinion on that committee as a citizen and his comments reflected in the minutes will reflect that. That he is concerned about the growth and life safety features of developments and I don't see anything coming from him that would even tie him to the engineering field with respect to a bias in that respect. I grant you, you have got one engineer and now we have two builders and your point is well taken. The only alternative I see to that is to forestall this and advertise. That might cause some problems in the short term but that is where we are at. The only discussions I have had are a couple of short discussions with Mayor Corrie. Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 51 Morrow: Well in response to that it may cause some problems in the short term, but it seems to me that I would rather see a few inconveniences in the short term as opposed to a long term public perception issue or actual conflict issue and I think that it is time well spent in terms of broadening the pool and taking a look and seeing. It may very well be that we don't get a response and if we don't get a response from the community then what that tells me is that they don't care and in that case we will press forward with those that are willing to serve no matter what their background or potential conflict or bias might be. But I would like to at least give that an opportunity. Bentley: Mr. Mayor, could we conceivably do some advertising and maybe have this before us at our next meeting? Do you think we could get responses that quick? Corrie: I think you are probably rushing it a bit. By the time we get it in the paper. I have to agree with Mr. Johnson, I think you have an excellent candidate here, she is willing to serve regardless of whether she is in the building industry or if she is a homeowner. She knows the community, she has the community at heart and talking with her a couple three times she wants to do something for the community. I really feel that whether she is a builder or not a builder has nothing to do with this. And if you are going to say how does the public look at this how would the public look at this that you are turning down a woman. So you can put a lot of emphasis on this thing. But having talked with Shannon I don't get the same feeling that Mr. Morrow is getting that you have two builders on the Committee. I think Jim is correct, I think we need to look at them as individuals. As far as the public is concerned I don't think they are going to look at it that way, I could be wrong but so could Mr. Morrow be wrong. But I think that talking with her she was very wanting to do this. She has the community at heart and I just, I also brought to her attention that with her family being in the building industry it doesn't have anything to do with her opinions of what she would do to the City and she said absolutely not. I think Jim Johnson also felt the same way by talking with her as well. I think we need to either Bentley: Mr. Mayor, what has been said here tonight, I am going to go ahead and make the motion that we accept your nomination of Shannon Spencer to the position of P & Z. Rountree: I will second Corrie: Motion has been made by Mr. Bentley, second by Mr. Rountree to accept Shannon Spencer as the new appointee for the Planning and Zoning Commission, any further discussion? All those in favor? Opposed? TIE VOTE: 2 YEA, 2 NAY Corrie: Okay so we have two to two, since I nominated her I think the obvious answer would be that I approve her as an appointment to the Planning and Zoning Commission. Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 52 Morrow: Mr. Mayor, point of order, Crookston: You do need to vote though. Corrie: I said that I voted for Shannon Spencer. Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I think there is a point of order here, I don't think that by State Statute on an appointment that there is tie breaking vote. I think the State Statute requires that any appointment garner a'/2 plus 1 majority of the Council. So I think on a tie vote the nomination fails. Corrie: If that be the case then that would have to show that it does fail then. Counselor? Crookston: I believe that Councilman Morrow is correct, but if we have a minute I would like to go look at the book. If you will give me a minute I do that. Corrie: You certainly can and I have some other things I need to bring up while you are doing that. We will wait for that one to see which way we go with that. There was also in your box a request that I made for transfer of funds from one account, Shari Stiles account for secretary account to be put in the Mayor's account for a secretary on Anita. She is answering about 45 to 50 phone calls a day for me, she is getting pulled in a lot of different directions. Talking with Janice she would like to have her, to work in the delinquency files which she is doing a good job there. Also doing some of the things, the work that I need to be done and follow through for me. So I guess my request for Council in the letter was if we could transfer the moneys that was not used by the Planning and Zoning for the secretary and also for part of the Assistant Planning and Zoning is that correct, which is actually $5200, excuse me that has not been used with the transfer of the $1400 to take care of the secretarial function for the Mayor at this time to help me get some of my work done. Rountree: Mr. Mayor, I believe in the preparation of the budget that the secretary and the Assistant P & Z person were pretty specific items that the Council wanted the Planning and Zoning Administrator to get after and get hired to take care of the work load in that area. I still am convinced that we need the help and we need to get on with hiring those people. I am not at this point favorable of manipulating the budget, taking away from the Planning and Zoning requirement. I understand your need but I am not real supportive of the area in the budget where you find the money. I guess my comment to Shari is you need to get with it and get those people hired. (Inaudible) Rountree: Well get them hired and we will find a place. Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 53 Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I have a question, currently this, currently she is working and being paid through the sewer and water (inaudible) and what you are proposing is that she is not going to be 50% office of the Mayor and 50% which office? Corrie: In with the delinquency accounts and the accounts payable. Morrow: Okay, so that would be still that half funded from there. Let me ask you guys this when I was looking at the budget trying to figure out how to do this. Two things in the first couple of lines popped out at me. One was as Councilmen and Commissioners each of us has $1000 by which on an annual basis to spend for AIC and any other functions that we as Councilman may attend or for educational things and so on and so forth. That totals $4000, for some reason in the budget there is $5000 in that account. We could take $1000 out of that account and put it back to $4000 where it belongs, I don't know why $5000 is there. Corrie: You mean the total? Morrow: The total for the four Councilmen is $5000 and it should be $4000. Here it is line item 2 under administrative where it says legislative and administration Council travel and meetings, Council. Historically we have had $1000 per Council seat so that is $5000 and it should be $4000. Corrie: Well it was approved for $5000 Rountree: Well there is a place to find $1000 Morrow: There is a place to find $1000, the next thing is Berg: Do you want to know why, that was presented to you at the AIC conference in Sun Valley which was a higher (inaudible) Morrow: When we went to the leadership conference in Sun Valley I think that we only spent $100 a piece for that 2 days in there. So there is a potential for savings. Then the other item I looked was the same thing travel and meetings for the Mayor, before Mayor Kingsford last year in office that amount was $2000 per year. His last year it was bumped to $4000 for special events and so on and so forth because of the last year. As I understand it, it was supposed to revert back to $2000, it is currently listed as $5000, 1 guess the question that I would ask there is that if $2000 is adequate we could pick up another $3000 there for a total of $4000 that we could get out of those two areas that we have direct control. Then fund the rest of the salary requirements from some of the unused portions of jobs that was supposed to be filled that were supposed to have been filled based on October first hiring that haven't occurred. Corrie: That is where this was originally coming from, is that her salaries were set at $1300 a month for secretary and $2500 a month for assistant. If you take those October, November, December, January which hasn't been used, it comes out to Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 54 $15,200 if you go back and say we are going to hire them with what you approve you are going to hire a secretary at $1300 a month and you assistant at $2500 so then it comes out. I guess I can't follow your reasoning, you are going to take it out of one why can't you take it out of the other. And you said that the Mayor's was going back to $2000 1 don't recall that ever being, going from $4000 to $2000, where did that come from? Morrow: When we approved the budget for Mayor Kingsford's last year, two years ago. We approved a bump up from $2000 to the $4000 for ceremonial things and then it was to revert back to the $2000 after the expiration of that last year. Corrie: Why was it to go back to $2000 if it went up to $4000 with him? Morrow: Well it was to go up to $4000 with him for the events of the last year because of special events that may have occurred or were going to occur. And then as a normal course of business it would go back to the $2000 and remain the same as the Councilmen's deal which was $1000 per Councilman per year and the Mayor's office was $2000 per year. And so Corrie: Well you have a better memory than I do. Morrow: When I was looking for money I guess to follow up on Shari, I am sorry On Charlie's point, is that if we take all of that money we may have to hire positions for Shari at slightly higher which some of that money would be available to that. I am simply looking to say here is maybe $4000 that can maybe reduce the impact on those salary ranges that were budgeted. With the contributions of us elected officials to fund the position that is all. Corrie: I would certainly hope you don't knock the Mayor's down to $2000 because there are a lot of things that we are going to be needing at the end of the year. Since you have control of that part let's leave it. You are going to have to make an adjustment then again if you increase the secretarial and the $2500 to the assistant. I was just looking at the same thing you were trying to figure out where it is going to come from. We were (inaudible) combination of secretary for both her and I and we didn't figure that would work out real well because she was probably (inaudible) at the same time so it doesn't work out that way. You are still, I would recommend the Council does not take that Mayor's travel down to $2000 and meetings. I think you are really cutting me off pretty short for what I am having to do now. I can see some things coming down the road that is going to require me to be out of town and unless you want me to take it out of my own pocket which I will have to do you are going to run into a few problems with $2000. Morrow: Well I don't know that $2000 is a number, I am simply going by where it was we needed to get some money. Maybe $2000 isn't the number, maybe $3000 is the number and we can still pick up a couple thousand to help fund the position (inaudible). Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 55 I don't know what that number is but that was an obvious place to start looking for money. Corrie: I guess it could be, I was just looking in a different place. Bentley: Well I think we will have to transfer some funds from somewhere to fund the position and if everybody is in agreement to fund the position then we can go ahead and take a look at where we are going to pick it up. It is quite obvious the works there. Morrow: We fund the position we also develop a job description and a salary range and so on and so forth and get that inserted into the personnel manual. That is a technicality. Will? Berg: I didn't know of this memo or any of this paperwork, I would like to have time to look through the budget and see what I could propose to you as far as suggestions on how to transfer some funds. I think that was part of my job description and I would like, there are other costs involved not just the salary, there are other costs of benefits that have to be pulled out and things like that. Morrow: I think then in order to delegate some responsibility from my perspective that is a good job for you. You fund out how the position is funded and you get the position in place, and we will press on from there. Tolsma: Will you write the job description and the salary range too while you are at it? Bentley: And find another desk. Berg: There is a card table down stairs that I am very familiar with the first couple months of my position. Morrow: To move along, I don't have any problem with the position I think (inaudible) it is Will's project, part of his job description to find the funding for the position and make a recommendation to us and let's press on from my standpoint. Corrie: Counselor, what did you find out? Crookston: I will give you the short version, 50-205, refusal to confirm appointments - vacancies. If the City Council shall refuse to confirm any nominations the Mayor shall then within ten days thereafter nominate another person to fill the office and he may continue to nominate until his nominee is confirmed. If the Mayor fails to make another nomination for the same office within the ten days after the rejection of an nominee the City Council shall appoint a suitable person to fill the office during the term. The affirmative vote of '/2 plus 1 of the members of the full Council shall re required to confirm any nomination made by the Mayor. Whenever a vacancy shall occur in the Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 56 appointive office the vacancy for the unexpired term shall be filled by appointment in the same manner as the original appointment. So it is'/2 plus 1. Corrie: So in ten days I have to come up with another one, is that the way it reads? Crookston: That Corrie: (Inaudible) Morrow: Well it says in ten days and at the expiration then the Council can come up with an appointee on its own. I think from my standpoint that is not something that I would support that the Council come up with somebody on their own. My concept would be and I would be supportive of the advertisement and the pool and drawing from that what the person would be. Corrie: That is going to take more than ten days. Morrow: I understand that Bob, what I am indicating to you is that I would not be supportive of the Council at day eleven appointing or voting to appoint somebody to the position. What I want to see if that the case is that we develop a pool and interview from the pool and go from there. Corrie: Well we can develop a pool, I am going to give you another name in less than ten days though, you can count on that. In between time we can make advertisement for people coming on board and you can refuse that again until we get somebody we want to do. I don't, I think that you need to have another nominee presented to you within ten days. I will make the announcement to the press and see who comes up with it. See who comes up asking, so that takes care of that. Morrow: Well the question I have, are we going to run an add soliciting volunteers for the vacant P & Z position the same as the City of Eagle has done? Corrie: If that is what you are wanting that is what we will do. I had one other question, a citizen, I guess this is you Mr. Morrow. What about rest rooms in the back nine of the golf course, are there any plans for that? Morrow: It is my understanding from Mr. Lovan that there is one on the front nine, a public rest room on the back nine. Corrie: Does he know where those are going or anything like that? Morrow: I have not seen a plan for that, I think that is part in partial of the coming club house plan. There are also public rest rooms in the club house plan. Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 57 Corrie: Are we going to get a report, we need a report of what is going on out there. What has gone on, moneys that are spent and moneys that have come in, can you get that report? Morrow: We will be having a final committee meeting to put together all of those issues we have one contract with which to let today and that was discussed today which is the head works project for the culverts that have been installed in the ditch system. So we will be soliciting bids for that head works system and that will be the final contract that we are letting. As soon as we have that let or have that ready to let then we will have our final meeting with our final figures and have an entire cost break down for each member of the Council. Corrie: And you anticipate that to be when? That next meeting you are having. Morrow: It will be within the next 30 days, it will probably be the first of second Monday in February will be where we would naturally fall. Corrie: I have one other question I guess, it comes out that Mr. Johnson is also up for Planning and Zoning appointment. Is that correct Jim you are up as well. Morrow: So I would move to approve the appointment of Jim Johnson to seat one of the P & Z for the term of four years. Corrie: Well in all due respects, let's don't do one or the other. I think Jim is great but you are going to have it both ways here. Morrow: How is that? Corrie: You are asking for an appointment on the Board to have them come in and do advertising and Jim even though I think I want him there, you are saying he doesn't have to do that. Now which way are you going to go here? Morrow: That is correct because in my opinion he is a qualified applicant, he is not an applicant he is a reappointment to an existing position. He is not a new appointment and so that is the difference between a reappointment and a new appointment. Corrie: Does the rest of the Council feel that way? Rountree: Well first off I haven't heard his name put into consideration as a nomination, I don't think it would be unwise to look at folks that are interested and let people know that the appointment is there. But I think the fact that Mr. Johnson has been the Chairman of Planning and Zoning for a number of years and has experience and I guess it is kind of up to him. If it is a reappointment and he is willing and it is a nomination on the part of the Mayor I would not be hesitant to vote knowing his background and having worked with him. Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 58 Corrie: Well I am going to at this point I have talked to Jim and I am going to nominate him for reappointment for Chairman of the Planning and Zoning. I just want to make sure that we are all on the same field here and I approve him 100°/x, that is for sure. So the second appointment which we were discussing we have five people and two of them are coming up at the same time we didn't quite figure that out, the City Clerk is trying to figure out how that happened. But I will, I am going to put Jim Johnson's name up for reappointment and ask the City Council for your approval. Morrow: Mr. Mayor, question, I have seen the document that Will is trying to derive the information from which is to say the least highly confusing. Would it maybe make some sense to identify these as Seat #1 and so that we know that Seat #1 runs from January 1 or 2 1997 through January 2, 2003 and so that if he should decide to leave it would be fairly simple to identify the amount of time that an appointee would have to serve for that seat. In the book that Will is dealing with it just has names, it doesn't have as near as I can tell seat designation. Rountree: I think that would be a good housekeeping measure. Berg: After looking through some of the historical documents for P & Z from times that they had six members of the Commission to times that the whole Commission resigned and people being moved up from being elected to Council and taking over seats it is kind of a jumbled mess and I am trying to review that. But I think the seat concept of knowing this seat goes from this year to year and if you have to have somebody appointed to fulfill the rest of the seat it is easier to keep track of. I am still trying to find out how we got five members in a six year span to be reappointed or come to appointment on the same year. Morrow: Maybe to help clarify the situation is that we do this seat for six years, we do the next seat that we need to fill for 5 years and then that starts the rotation or something like that Berg: After I figure out maybe where that odd year is then we can nominate it that way. Corrie: We will put seat 1 as his seat, Jim Johnson's seat. Seat 1 is up for reappointment or appointment and under the circumstances I have reappointed him as Planning and Zoning Chairman, I will need to have a confirmation of the Council. Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I would move that we confirm the appointment of Jim Johnson to be Chairman of P & Z for seat 1 for a six year term. Bentley: Second Crookston: May I make a comment, I am going to have to look at the law again, but I think the Commission itself decides on who the Chairman is. Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 59 Corrie: We will put Rountree: I think he is right and I don't think there are going to be any changes. Corrie: The motion, do you want to redo the motion Mr. Morrow? Morrow: If Mr. Bentley will withdraw? Bentley: Withdrawn Morrow: I would like to re -move that we confirm the appointment of Jim Johnson to seat #1 for a six year term to the Planning and Zoning Commission of the City of Meridian. Bentley: Second Corrie: Motion made and seconded, all those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea Corrie: Jim would you do me a favor and see that they appoint you again, I will personally get a hold of each one of their lapels and talk to them if you don't mind. Johnson: (Inaudible) Corrie: I will entertain a motion we adjourn. Rountree: So moved Tolsma: Second Corrie: Motion made and seconded we adjourn, all those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea ►�I11211I►[e1_1D11L0111:7►121�7_�fi§W4ila►TA1 (TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) APPROVED: ROBERT D. CORRIE, MAYOR Meridian City Council January 7, 1997 Page 60 ATTEST: WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., CITY CLERK