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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1997 02-04MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL FEBRUARY 4. 1997 The regular meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order by Mayor Robert D. Corrie at 7:30 P.M.: MEMBERS PRESENT: Walt Morrow, Ron Tolsma, Glenn Bentley, Charlie Rountree: OTHERS PRESENT: Will Berg, Wayne Crookston, Shari Stiles, Gary Smith, Chief Gordon, Mike Baldner, Wally Lovan, Brian McColl, Steve Bradbury, Keith Jacobs, Mike Ballantyne, Stephanie Churchman, John Schwartz, Stewart and Kris Haskell, Lisa Sexton, Dave Roylance: MINUTES OF PREVIOUS MEETING HELD JANUARY 21, 1997: Corrie: Any corrections or alterations on those minutes? I do have one, on page 33, there are two places where it says roll call vote Tolsma - Yea, and he was absent so we will correct those two. Any other corrections? I will entertain a motion to accept the minutes as corrected. Rountree: So moved Tolsma: Second Corrie: Motion made and seconded that we accept the minutes of January 21, 1997 as corrected, all those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea Corrie: Council, with your permission, I would like to move item 10 up to item one. This is the discussion of the Albertsons certificate of occupancy. Mr. Lovan is here and think the representative from Albertsons is here. Rather than to have them sit through a meeting for that they have to tell us with their permission I will put them as number one if there are no objections, thank you. Would the attorney or somebody from Albertsons like to start and give us the information? Baldner: My name is Mike Baldner, I am with Albertson's, the Surplus Property Representative. Mayor and Councilmen I would like to thank the City for their cooperation in the last couple of weeks in pushing this issue along. I am sure you will all be happy not to see me again for a while. I am pleased to announce we have arrived at a solution on the utility easements. As you recall originally Mr. Lovan was going to hook into the easements. We have asked for $3200 for a hook up fee upon connection. He offered us $1600 and we accepted it in the interest of moving forward on behalf of Mr. Lovan. We would like to thank him, he was very cooperative and very responsive to this and frankly I think some of the issues we had were a lack of communication caused by the folks we paid to get in between us. In addition I am also pleased to announce we have resolved the cross access easement which was not of particular relevance to Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 2 the certificate of occupancy but would have been an issue on the plat that will be in front of you shortly. So all of those things are gone and you won't have to listen to Albertsons and Mr. Lovan squabble back and forth anymore. We have submitted the copies of the easements in the past at least a form for Mr. Crookston to take a glance at. The easements that we will execute will be identical except for the price decrease. We have talked about and well both of us had to give a little I think ultimately the decision was fair. That was the condition that was placed our certificate of occupancy, we are here to request a final certificate. I understand at the last meeting the planning and zoning administrator raised a concern about the lights. We were aware of that but that is the first time the City has brought that to our attention. We have been spending a lot of time and money trying to resolve that. Frankly for us the issue is while we appreciate the city's concern we are more interested in protecting our customers because all of our neighbors are our customers. So we are going to take care of that problem one way or the other. So I am here tonight to ask that the conditions be removed from the certificate of occupancy and that a permanent CO be issued. Corrie: Council, any questions? Thank you, Mr. Lovan, is that your understanding, your agreement with what they have said? Lovan: My name is Wally Lovan, I have the adjoining property to Albertsons. We have been in a little tiff over easements and sewer and the thing has been resolved now. I think we will end up being pretty good neighbors. I want to thank the Council too for their involvement in this thing. Corrie: Thank you Wally. Morrow: Mr. Morrow, I would like to thank both Albertson's and Wally Lovan for getting this matter resolved. I know that it was a difficult issue for us and it was a difficult issue for them. It has been done and taken care of on schedule as originally requested. I would like to move at this time that as a Council we remove the condition of the settlement between Mr. Lovan and Albertsons as a hold on the permanent occupancy. If all other City departments have signed off on that occupancy that the temporary occupancy be converted to a permanent occupancy, Mr. Mayor. Rountree: Second Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Morrow, second by Mr. Rountree, Council you have heard the motion, any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea ITEM #1: TABLED JANUARY 21, 1997: MARTY GOLDSMITH: DISCUSSION OF SALMON RAPIDS NO. 3 SUBDIVISION. Corrie: Would you like to come forward and continue with that discussion? Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 3 McColl: Brian McColl, Mr. Mayor and Council, when we last left this topic I think we agreed that we would go home and think about it. Unfortunately when that happens sometimes we go home and put it on the back burner. Just to remind the Council as to what the problem was, there is before the City Council right now a final plat for phase 3 of Salmon Rapids Subdivision that is not in conformance with the preliminary plat. In that it provides that all some 72 lots I believe would sewer into the Nine Mile Drain. The preliminary plat and the findings that went with it and the testimony that went with it were pretty consistent that although most of the lots in this phase could physically go into Nine Mile, the southwesterly low lying lots could not and they would have to go into Ten Mile. When it was pointed out to us that the final plat that we submitted that basically called for filling those lower lots so that they would all go into the Nine Mile was inconsistent with the preliminary plat and that there was another problem and that was that really the City Engineer wanted all of these lots including the phase before it that is in Nine Mile to go into Ten Mile. When then put this item on the agenda and we brought for discussion the concept that we would like to be able to build a lift station. That lift station would temporarily permit all lots in this third phase to go into the Nine Mile but when the Ten Mile got pushed on down it is not partially in Meridian Greens but when it got completed for Meridian Greens and then through Kachina Estates we would abandon the lift station and all 70 lots would go into the Ten Mile. Thinking that might help the sort of over all capacity problem down the road. I believe one of you or all of you decided you needed a little more time to think about it. Our thought was if the lift station was not acceptable then we would sort of have to back up. We would withdraw the existing final plat and submit a new final plat more consistent with the preliminary plat that has been approved. But we didn't want to do so if you all thought the lift station was a possible solution to the capacity. There is no capacity problem but potentially there might be down the road. We are just looking for some direction. Morrow: Mr. Mayor if I might, I think one of the questions was that you were also going to do some research with the extension to Ten Mile or the extension of Ten Mile Creek line that currently is someplace in Meridian Greens and getting to this property. Did any of that research go on? McColl: The Salmon Rapids Phase 3 in question, we brought the Nine Mile Trunk down here and here and into Salmon Rapids. The Ten Mile Trunk now is to approximately this point. As Meridian Greens is developed that developer would bring it to the end. It then enters into this older subdivision, Kachina Estates. There are two lots affected a bridge here, a public right of way here. This property owner is pretty adamant about not giving any kind of easement at all at this point. He has at least in this section of his property, this is Mr. Reed McDonald, a very well established kind of estate. He has huge, mature trees, he has an asphalt drive, he has a water wheel that he has sunk into the Ten Mile Creek with concrete pilings. So, anything is engineering wise possible and I suspect that some day when the pressure comes down from developers here there will be enough pressure to find a solution to that. If our section here were to be required to sewer into here immediately we would just probably not develop those lots Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 4 at this point in time. It certainly isn't cost efficient for somewhere between ten and maximum 20 lots our engineer tells us it is about 13 lots that physically will not sewer into the Nine Mile. For 10, 13, 20 lots the cost would be a lot, $200,000 including estimates on easements, even if we could get an easement. Corrie: Other questions? Thank you is that all we had. McColl: Again, if we could get some sort of direction, if the Council was against us proposing a lift station then we will just file a new plat with those lots (inaudible) if you would like us to pursue the lift station we would be happy to do that. Corrie: I guess the question would be Council are you prepared to do that tonight or do you want to have more time? Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I would like to hear some input from Gary Smith, he has also had a couple of weeks to give this some thought. At present if he has an opinion on that could we have that please? Corrie: Mr. Smith? Smith: Mr. Mayor and Councilmen, I guess there is a policy decision that the Council needs to make. Whether you are going to allow this drainage to go into the Nine Mile Drainage instead of the Ten Mile Drainage or not. The lift station is an alternative, the past two subdivisions in which we have had lift stations have carried with them that the homeowners association pay the maintenance cost on these lift station. The City actually performs the maintenance but the subdivision is assessed and pays those costs. I don't know whether this developer is willing to proceed on that basis or not. I haven't spoken to him or Brian about that. But he indicates to me now that he is willing to proceed with that. I guess I look at lift stations in two ways. One is a permanent lift station situation. I look at very carefully and weigh the long term requirements. Second is an interim, temporary lift station of which this would be. Once the Ten Mile Creek interceptor is extended. Temporary is a difficult word to define because of what I have seen happen in the past. Those lift stations in some cases have been temporary for ten to fifteen years. During that period of time they wear out and then they are more costly to operate. Again, I think that if the Council wants to proceed along a temporary lift station proposal that the maintenance cost for that lift station should be borne by the development. Obviously that doesn't affect the developer except it is a liability that the lot owners will carry as long as the lift station is in operation. From a stand point of putting sewage flow from drainage area into another drainage area and not knowing what can or will develop in the drainage area to which you are pumping or to which you are flowing say by gravity then that is pretty difficult. That is one reason why my policy and I think the Council's policy in the past has been to confine sewage to specified drainage areas within reason, within limits, within the common sense factor. We talked about that at the last Council meeting. Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 5 Morrow: Question Mr. Mayor, Gary, refresh my memory on the prior two lift stations that are being maintained by the homeowners subdivisions were those lift stations done for interbasin transfers or was there an elevation issue that caused those lift stations to be done pending another line being put in or something. Smith: One of the lift stations is an interbasin transfer, the other is not. But it is interim, they are both interim, temporary lift stations. Both would be abandoned upon extension of gravity sewer. Morrow: The one with the interbasin transfer the location of that was? Smith: That is Whitestone Subdivision on Linder Road. Morrow: And that is pending the Ten Mile Drainage being completed and it is immediately adjacent to the Ten Mile Drainage. Smith: Yes correct Morrow: The other one as I recall was in Packard Subdivision. Smith: Yes Morrow: And that was a question of linkage in terms of lines was it not? Smith: Yes, that one will be pumping into the drainage area that it is supposed to gravity flow into. At this point they are having difficulty in crossing property with gravity line. Morrow: Thank you, I have no further questions of staff? Corrie: Any other questions from Council? I guess to reiterate my question before do we wish more time? Morrow: Mr. Mayor, if I might I need to ask a couple of questions or throw out a couple questions in terms of or comments I guess. I am not really in favor of going against our policy of interbasin transfers. My preference would be to continue that policy, recognize that based on Mr. McColl's presentation there appears to be some obstacles in terms of extension of Ten Mile that are not overcomable at this time. I guess the other thing is as point of discussion is that if there is a resubmittal of something close to the original plat and the lots are not going to be developed what state are those lots left in? The thought comes to mind that maybe it is a usable common area for the short term that is maintained by the homeowners association in some sort of grass or something so it doesn't become a fire hazard and a mess. But I think that presentation ought to come from the developer and or his representatives. I think that from my perspective I would like to hear some solutions to that issue before I voted on what it is Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 6 that gets done here. I think in summation I want to see from them a presentation which maybe be at our next meeting and that I am not in favor or an interbasin transfer. Rountree: Walt's comments raise a question that I have for Gary, this entire sub, not just that one corner portion of lots, is identified to drain into the Ten Mile Drainage correct or just the corner? Smith: Well Councilman, if you utilized Eight Mile Lateral as the line dividing the two drainages, which in our facility plan it does, then all of this subdivision was in or is in the Ten Mile Drainage. However as I mentioned at our last meeting you can't physically say that a home on the northeast side of the Eight Mile Lateral has to drain into the Nine Mile Drainage a home on the southwest side drains into Ten Mile. That is where that common sense factor comes. You make a determination how far you can go south and west of the Eight Mile Lateral and still drain into within reason into the Nine Mile Drainage. So, part of the subdivision that is being proposed as I think it is number 3 does drain into by gravity the Nine Mile Drainage without much difficulty. But when you get into the southwest corner then that is the area in question. In my own mind you are really pushing as far as this interdrainage is concerned. I think you are moving over the line so to speak. Even though as they say physically all but 12 or 13 lots can drain into the Nine Mile Drainage. It is contrary to what our policy has been in the past as far as permanent gravity flow. Corrie: I was going to say you pointed to the wrong corner. Rountree: You were in the southeast (inaudible) (Discussion Inaudible) Rountree: Another question for Gary and Counsel, if the lift station concept were approved as a temporary solution what vehicle would need to be in place to switch that over to a gravity drain into Ten Mile. Who would pay the cost and how would the associated cost of extending the sewer to that point be paid for? Smith: I can address part of that councilman, the lift station can be designed and built such that the inlet pipe and there can be an outlet stub constructed at the time the wet well is built for extension to the gravity sewer at such time that the gravity sewer is available. The conversion of the lift station to a manhole is relatively easy with those pieces in place. It is pretty much a pull the equipment out of it, put a standard ring and cover on it if it doesn't have one, and usually they don't. But put a standard ring and cover on it and fill the bottom, the wet well and build a concrete channel through it similar to a manhole and then away you go. You second part of your question is who pays for that cost of connecting the lift station site to the gravity sewer line. I don't think that has been addressed but it is a good question and it needs to be addressed. Somebody will need to pay that cost, the developer could put into escrow. Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 7 McColl: (Inaudible) the developers obligation and we would be prepared to do the engineering and the cost estimate and the bonding for it if that was the way the Council decided to go. Rountree: Question for Counsel, is that a standard practice? Crookston: It is the standard practice that the City of Meridian to have a developer pay for all costs to provide sewer and or water. I would think that would be within the realm of that policy of the City. The City would in essence be providing a granting capacity to Mr. Goldsmith to have sewage. I think that the transfer from lift station to gravity flow would have to be the developer who is Marty Goldsmith. Corrie Thank you Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I think that part of the question here also is that in reference to long term speculation on my part that getting from the end of or to the end of Meridian Greens I don't think is long term, I think what we have is reasonably short term. Getting across the two five acre estates in Kachina Estates represents a major issue. If those are going to remain estates so to speak and not be subdivided into building lots then the question in my mind is that who pays the cost of getting it across those two lots. Or does it have to be at some point in time when there is enough demand upstream that those developer folk are willing to pay that cost. The issue that Mr. Smith raises is well founded in my mind that the lift station is a ten to twelve year life span before rehab, is that correct? Smith: It is the mechanical part that breaks down yes sir, pumps and motors. Morrow: I don't see that development upstream taking place in that time frame. So who pays for the repair and rebuild so to speak of that particular lift station at the time it needs to be done. I am uneasy about those things or about the answers to those questions. I think in the case of the other two that we have done there clearly was short term really kind of (inaudible) just some technical issues that needed or land acquisition issues in the case of Packard that needed to be able to over come and Whitestone was limited because there was a sewer line existing in Linder Road that was an easy shot to get there plus it was immediately adjacent to Ten Mile Creek. So those would be my observations. Also, with respect to this and I think again that we need to think through and see a proposal (inaudible) Rountree: Given those responses I think my position would be to look at a replating that did not show development of the particular portion of the parcel. But did take into account some kind of care and maintenance of that portion of the subdivision until such time it could be sewered. Like maybe a neighborhood park or something like that. Morrow: Well Mr. Mayor if I might interject, as a point of protection for the developer as a future owner I think if a neighborhood park or a ball diamond for the kids is going to Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 8 be utilized there short term. It needs to be all spelled out and all kinds of homeowner documents and association documents that is in fact a temporary use and that it is subdividable property to be divided at some point in the future. I wouldn't want to see in fairness to the developer, I wouldn't want to see something that ends up becoming permanent at his expense. Corrie: Any other comments? Smith: Mr. Mayor, I guess I need an item of clarification, the original preliminary plat had approximately 38 lots I believe that were deemed non-sewerable and that preliminary plat was approved with that condition. The engineer is now telling us that all of these lots but 12 or 13 can be sewered out of the approximate 70 1 guess there is in this next phase. What are your wishes, where do you want to cut this off? Morrow: Mr. Mayor, if I might answer that from my standpoint, I will support whatever the decision of the Public Works Department is in terms of where that cut off line ought to be. It is those folk that have to put together the system and make it work long term. And so if it is 13 that is fine, if it is 37 or 38 that is fine or if it is somewhere in between that is fine. But it ought to be reasonable for both parties. Smith: I guess my comment is the preliminary plat was approved originally with 38 lots not being developed. The rest of those are an interbasin transfer, that is a permanent transfer of flow. I am not interested personally in approving any more lots than what has been approved to flow in the Nine Mile Creek on a permanent basis. Corrie: If I recall you said, the original is what you are going to come back with so that it would be these 38 lots are non-sewerable, is that correct? McColl: No, we would request that the number of lots that be turned into this neighborhood park would be those lots that now that the engineering has been done physically cannot sewer into the Nine Mile. When the original preliminary plat was presented there was on that plat sort of a gray area, none of the engineering work had been done obviously it was at the preliminary stage. I think it was done by Mr. Roylance and he just on the basis of conservative approach indicated that there would be a number of lots down there and if you count them all out and look at the foot note yes there were 38. But in fact it is much closer to I believe now that the engineering work is done we can talk to our engineer about 12 lots. The, it would seem to me that the solution that we were looking for was not to do the lift station and to have those lots that are truly non-sewerable maintain as some sort of ball diamond, ball field, park or park for the subdivision the number 13 would be, 5 acres, a pretty substantial park. If we were talking about 38 that is a hayfield of substantial proportions. So because the precedent has already been set in terms of sewering 43 in Salmon Rapids No. 1, 1 think there are 37 in Salmon Rapids No. 2 and another 30 in this phase under the preliminary plat we would request that all lots that could sewer into the Nine Mile be permitted to sewer in the Nine Mile. Or again (inaudible) all go into the Ten Mile. I think there had Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 9 been some dealings between the City Engineer and the developer that indicated that the actual number would be based upon the engineering that was to be done and then in particular any lot that could end up with four feet of fill on top of it would meet those requirements, it that right Gary? Smith: We have a minimum cover in the street over the sewer line that is correct. would like to make one other comment though. When we require a preliminary plat be prepared it is more than a guessing game. There is a contour map prepared on that preliminary plat, two contours. Granted these contours are not absolutely accurate, but the reason that the contours are required is so they can design in a preliminary manner, sewer, water and storm drain. I am hanging my hat a lot on the preliminary plats. The final drawings that come in are details of the preliminary plats. I don't remember exactly the words that I used with the developer but there was a restriction of sewering the southwest corner of the subdivision because of the elevation of the ground. I know all things change when you finally get out there with an instrument and start running profiles down the road. But in my mind it is difficult to understand how they change from 38 lots to 12 lots. Maybe we are splitting hairs I don't know, as far as the total drainage area of Nine Mile Drain. Rountree: Gary, possibly that question would be resolved with the replatting of this parcel. Smith: I don't know Councilman, I don't know what it is going to look like when it comes back if it is going to have a similar roadway alignment or what I have no idea if that is what they are talking about. McColl: I think it would require a resubmission at minimum of the final plat, we hadn't at this point contemplated going all the way back to the preliminary plat stage. But I suppose if that was absolutely necessary to solve this problem that also could be accomplished including a public hearing. The reality is that now that the engineering work has been done our engineers are telling us and I think if the City engineer had some questions surely they could get together and decide on that from a physical flow point of view we are talking about more like 13 lots. Now if it turns out it is 20 it is 20 and if it is 38 1 suppose it is 38. This is the best information we have from our engineers. I also think that would be more consistent with kind of a park than whatever, there are about 3 lots per acre, 3 goes into 38, we are talking about 13 or 14 acres. Bentley: Mr. Mayor, it seems kind of obvious that the two engineers are not on the same page on this. I would not be prepared to render a decision until they can get together and maybe see if there is a problem between the preliminary drawing with the 38 lots and what is being talked about here. Morrow: Mr. Mayor, since this on the agenda as a discussion is seems to me that it be appropriate that at this juncture, I am satisfied with the discussion, we have talked about the concepts, we have talked about possible solutions. I would like the discussion Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 10 to continue between the engineering staff, the developer and see where it goes from there. I think the desire of the Council is pretty clear that they don't want to be involved in a lift station if at all possible. Also that the City Engineer needs to be giving some direction to Mr. Goldsmith and his engineers as to what is acceptable to him. Whatever that proposal is it comes back before the City Council at that time. Corrie: Do I hear any objections from the Council? Okay, that is it. Before I go to item 2, 1 want to welcome Scout Troop #81, forgive me for not recognizing you guys before I started the meeting. ITEM #2: FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR THE LAKE AT CHERRY LANE NO. 7 BY STEINER DEVELOPMENT: Corrie: Council you have the conditional use permit, I believe in front of you now. Morrow: It would be nice Mr. Mayor if we could pause for a few minutes and preview this. Corrie: We will take a pause for just a moment here. PAUSE IN MEETING Corrie: Mr. Rountree? Rountree: I have a question for staff Mr. Mayor on this, it would be for Shari. Are you up to the assignment of design review for this proposal if we were to act favorably on the conditional use permit, be honest? Stiles: Well I guess are you ready too, it says City Staff and Council. Rountree: You know my position. Stiles: I don't know if the applicant would accept it under those conditions. Rountree: Thank you that answers my question. Corrie: Any further comment of Council, questions? Bentley: Mr. Mayor, I am still not satisfied with this common area being used as a water basin and a drainage situation on it. I still don't feel that has been addressed adequately for myself along with the design review. That is all I have. Morrow: Mr. Mayor, question for Mr. Bentley, what do you want to see more on the basin issue, your thoughts there. Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 11 Bentley: My thoughts are like I stated before I am really concerned on how the elderly are going to be able to use an open area, if it is floating in water. They speak of putting a liner in and I just know how the water is going to get out of there. With the sloped edge, even though they say they will put a ramp or something down in there I am just really concerned on the elderly's ability to use this. Morrow: Mr. Mayor, question for Gary Smith, when we last met and discussed this there was some study stuff being done with respect to the layout of this drainage pond/common area. Have we seen anything come forward in terms of drawings or specifics that address the question of the ramping in and out and those issues? Smith: Mr. Councilman, I haven't seen anything personally, I don't know if it was submitted to any of my staff or not, but I haven't seen it personally. Morrow: I think the drainage issue that Councilman Bentley talks about is by virtue of the over flow that flows into the drain line and that type of thing is pretty well addressed is it not from a technical stand point if I recall? Smith: Could you say that again? Morrow: On this retention pond the drainage issue for when the water comes in and then it actively goes out in terms of piping into the drain ditch and is carried away. The issue that Mr. Bentley is talking about with respect to the liner, is to prevent the cross drainages of the infiltration basin that is in the old ditch right of way as I recall, is that correct? And this detention pond. The detention pond has a settlement provision by virtue of the out flow device being higher than the bottom of the pond. Is that how that works? And the liner is to prevent (inaudible) mingling. Smith: There is, the pond design incorporated two different things. One was a liner, the second was a subsurface perforated drainage system that would drain into an existing drain perforated drain paralleling Ten Mile. There is a, I guess you can call it a transfer structure in the northeast corner of this pond that takes the storm water from the pond and discharges it to Nine Mile Drain at a predetermined rate, at the pre -development rate. So if you had a design storm, I haven't chased through this calculation that made but if you had a design storm the pond would fill up to a certain level and then it would drain through the transfer structure into Nine Mile Creek or Drain. The size of the opening in the transfer structure determines how much water is draining into Nine Mile Drain. After a period of time the pond would be empty. Did I answer your question on that? Morrow: Yes to that portion, now explain the significance of the liner, please, as it relates to this drainage pond that is allowing settlement and then drainage into Nine Mile Drain. Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 12 Smith: Typically in this area we don't have much storm water during the summer months. But we do have a high ground water. So the combination of the bed liner or the pond liner and the subsurface collection system, pipe collection system, would keep the ground water out of the pond. Because the bottom of the pond is below the ground water level. You would have some hydrostatic pressure against that pond liner that would want to force that thing up if they had 6 inches of soil, 6 inches of, well 6 inches of sand and 6 inches of sod you would call it, 12 inches above that bed liner to keep it in place. Then the subsurface collection system, was installed to further ensure that the hydrostatic pressure wasn't going to uproot that bed liner. So the combination of those two units, 2 installations are meant to keep the ground water out of the pond, out of the depressed area because the elevation of the grass and the pond is below the historic ground water level out there. If you didn't have that in place then you would have a couple of feet of water in the bottom of that pond throughout the summer months when the ground water level is up. Does that answer your question sir? Morrow: Yes, that explains it the way I was after. I thought there may be some confusion as to (End of Tape) Corrie: Any further discussion from Council? Tolsma: (Inaudible) the average passenger car (inaudible) over 20 feet (inaudible) off the sidewalk (inaudible) I walked (inaudible) Now if they only have one sidewalk on one side of the street that makes it twice as bad. I think Mr. Bradbury last time mentioned something about seeking out a solution to that problem. The possibility if you could have the garages with the 24 foot setback or 20 foot setback (inaudible). Would that be a solution? Bradbury: Mr. Mayor and Councilman Tolsma, unfortunately I think perhaps maybe you weren't here at the last Council meeting when we raised this and what we had done is prepared a drawing showing how if the roadway is centered and being constructed so that it leaves, since the width of the actual improvements of the roadway are less than the right of way width that if the roadway is centered properly there is actually going to be additional space made available for the parking of cars in those front driveways, that is there is not going to be just only the 18 feet setback there is also going to be at least an additional foot on each, between the lot line and the improvements to the roadway making it a total of 19 feet theoretically from the nearest point in the structure to the point where the sidewalk is. Although that doesn't entirely solve your concerns. Tolsma: (Inaudible) with the five foot sidewalk that would be 25 feet from the house to the edge of the street then? Bradbury: Right, exactly, there is, because we have this extra space that is contained in the right of way but is not actually improved with right of way then it appeared to us and according to the drawings that were submitted last time it appeared to us that there was going to be enough room to park most cars. If you are parking a suburban there you are Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 13 probably going to have some troubles. We thought that with that additional space it would satisfy hopefully 90% of those concerns if not more of them. In addition so that this doesn't get lost in the shuffle, each of these units is of course provided with a two car garage. So, I am expecting that most of the time the vehicles are going to be parked in the garage and there will only be on those occasions when there are guests that are parking in the driveway and that certainly is going to happen from time to time but I don't suspect that every driveway is going to be covered with cars every day. I think that there is going to be enough space to resolve those concerns, we are certainly willing to look at any other solutions that might help you. Tolsma: The second problem (inaudible) no law enforcement inside the subdivision as far as blocking the sidewalks or parking on the sidewalks. If the streets are public then at least maybe they can go in there and enforce that (inaudible) two fold problem here you are short a distance and you block the sidewalk, there is really no way to enforce it if you are a private street. Bradbury: I understand your concern with respect to that and we can sure include provisions in the restrictive covenants which would prohibit people from parking on or across the sidewalks just as the CC&R's will include provisions that prohibit people from parking on the street or on one side of the street, I have only just been through these findings just briefly, assuming that would be approved. Then we can certainly include some enforcement mechanism through the homeowners association and that may not be as good as getting a ticket. It at least provides you with hopefully some comfort. Tolsma: If the garage (inaudible) I notice a lot of garages on buildings now the garages are set forward away from the front of the house. I have also seen several that the garages are set back and the houses are set forward. That could be a plus situation there if the garage was set 2 or 3 foot back further away from the driveway. I was looking at it as 20 foot and most of the cars are 21 feet today, the average mid-size car, unless they run them up against the garage door they are still going to be sitting on the sidewalk. Most people walk back far enough so they can walk across the front of the car which is 2 or 3 feet back. So they are literally going to be blocking the sidewalk anyway, with 20 feet. Bradbury: I certainly understand your concern and I guess hopefully that with the provisions that have been made for off street parking and with provisions that are made for space to park in the garage I would hope that those kinds of conflicts would be minimized. I am not going to try to pretend to tell you that you will never see it happen because you wouldn't believe me if I tried to say that. I guess we can't solve every problem, every potential ill I the world here tonight but what we can do is try to minimize them and I think that the design that is proposed certainly intends to do that. Maybe we can, maybe there is way to redesign these units or to take another look at a different design that would push these garages back. I don't think that the developer is adverse to the idea of at least looking at that possibility. I do know that he has already worked on some alternate designs, elevations so that we can solve some of the concerns that Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 14 some of the council people had with respect to the fact that everything was going to look the same. So that work is already underway. There is perhaps the issue with the location of the garages can also be taken a look at too. Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I think that the answer to part of your issue there Ron is that in a development like this that is a gated community and it is private streets clearly historically the enforcement provision rides, that responsibility rides within the subdivision itself and the association there. There is more than ample precedent for those CC&R's to constructed so that it can reduce to a minimum that type of thing that you are talking about. The other thing is that if we do adopt these findings of fact and conclusions it clearly stipulates that there is design review to resolve the problem of the front elevations and the things that were proposed to us before. Which would go a long ways towards cleaning up some of those issues with respect to the garages and you can you are absolutely right, you can off set the house 20 feet and set the unit, put the garage back. You can also do things like side entry garages. I have worked in subdivisions where the side entry garage system was used and it allowed a seven foot setback from the back of sidewalk. Clearly the same type of proposal as this is. So there is lots of flexibility there. I think very candidly I was one of those who strongly objected and still strongly feels that it looks like an army base barracks system based on the elevations that were presented to us and that is clearly unacceptable. I am a strong proponent of the design review by staff and by Council so that we don't see that in fact happen. Perhaps in that scenario there is some flexibility for those designs to solve those parking issues. Thank you Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Any further discussion? Rountree: Mr. Mayor, as far as the language in the findings of fact, I still have two concerns. I think it needs to be more clear that the design review is in there as a condition of providing an opportunity for the City to review a concept that presents multiple different street elevations. I am also concerned about the open space required by the PUD even though in numbers they have 10%, that concept means to me that is usable space to those residents for their enjoyment. When it is full of rain water I don't think it is going to be too particularly enjoyable. So I think additional open space per our ordinance would be required. I would like to see that specifically pointed out in the findings of fact. If we can do that this evening I have no objections with the conclusions reached. If not I would recommend that we take another run at them and get that included. Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I have no problem with Councilman Rountree's suggestions from my perspective I am in agreement with those. I guess the question would be rightfully posed to the counselor, if we can get that handled tonight, then that would be fine. If he feels more comfortable reworking it and bringing it back next meeting that is fine also. Your opinion please? Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 15 Crookston: I would rather do it out of the meeting time and get it worked out as best that I can and so that it is presentable to the Council would be my preference. Morrow: That being the case Mr. Mayor, I would move that we instruct the City Attorney to prepare findings of fact and conclusions of law for the Lake at Cherry Lane No. 7 by Steiner Development for our review on the meeting of February 18tH Bentley: Second Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Morrow, second by Mr. Bentley to do new findings of fact and conclusions of law to be prepared at the next council meeting, any further discussion? All those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea Smith: Mr. Mayor, can staff have a clarification on design review? Does that involve the structures that are to be built on the lots that have been proposed to be platted. Does that have to do with the location of the streets? How extensive is the design review. I don't think that is formally part of our ordinances. Morrow: The design review is part of our subdivision and development ordinances (inaudible) Crookston: It is part of our zoning ordinance, all it says is that City Staff and City Council have the right of design review. You are correct that we do not have any ordinance that says specifically what is required to be done. That is correct Gary. Smith: I guess I just need some as your staff, Shari and I need some clarification as to what that involves. Morrow: Well the design review from my perspective is the Council would be the frontal elevations it would not be things such as colors and paints and location of landscaping and those types of issues. I think that what I would like to see from staff and from the Council standpoint is and it can be accomplished if there is going to be five different plans for this subdivision then we design review the five elevations for those plans and the placement on the plat of those plans. If it is something that each one is going to be individually built and sold as a unit then, and each might be designed slightly different we take a look at the front elevations, it meets the other conditions of the staff with respect to setbacks and all of those kinds of things then that is all there is to it in this case. It is not a in my mind it is not an extensive design review that you can see done sometimes this is an elevation design review and that is it. Rountree: Mr. Mayor, I would add one other point in this particular instance it would include the usability of space or amenities in the facility. The open space for the Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 16 enjoyment of the residents as well as how well the storm water detention pond functions. I think those are critical portions of this particular development. ITEM #3: PRELIMINARY PLAT FOR THE LAKE AT CHERRY LANE NO. 7 BY STEINER DEVELOPMENT; TABLED JANUARY 21, 1997: Morrow: Mr. Mayor, point of order did we vote on the last motion? Corrie: I think we did. Steve, would you like to say anything in reference to the preliminary plat? Bradbury: I don't have anything to add. I suspect that it might make sense to go ahead and table the plat until you are happy with your findings on the conditional use because obviously one follows from the other. Bentley: Mr. Mayor, I move we table the preliminary plat for the Lake at Cherry Lane No. 7 until February 18tH Rountree: Second Corrie: Motion made and seconded that we table the preliminary plat until the February 18th meeting, any further discussion? All those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea ITEM #4: FINAL PLAT: WHITESTONE ESTATES SUBDIVISION NO. 2, 37 LOTS NORTH OF WALTMAN, WEST OF LINDER ROAD BY WHITESTONE DEVELOPMENT COMPANY: Corrie: Is there a representative from Whitestone, are they here? Jacobs: Good evening, Keith Jacobs, Pacific Land Surveyors. This is a continuation of a preliminary plat you have approved of Whitestone Estates Subdivision. This is our second phase, 37 lots on 10.62 acres. I did receive the staff comments, read them and responded to the City with a letter accepting the general comments and the site specific comments. The two issues on the site specific comments, issue 5 and 6 1 have not had a confirmation from staff that I did interpret their comments correctly. However we will work that out, if we need to do that before this is approved, fine. If we don't we can do it with staff and consultant level. Do you have any other questions? Corrie: Any questions of Keith? Thank you Keith. Morrow: Mr. Mayor, question of staff, Gary and Shari are you satisfied with the responses that were provided to you by Keith Jacobs for those questions that you had. Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 17 Smith: Yes I am Councilman. Stiles: Yes I am too. Morrow: Thank you Corrie: Any further questions? Hearing none I would entertain a motion on the final plat. Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I would move that we the City Council approve the final plat for Whitestone Estates Subdivision No. 2 subject to all staff conditions. Bentley: Second Corrie: Motion made and seconded to accept the final plat of Whitestone Estates subject to approval of staff, conditions of staff. Any further discussion? All those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea ITEM #5: FINAL PLAT: TROUTNER BUSINESS PARK, 38 LOTS SOUTH OF FRANKLIN ROAD, WEST OF MERIDIAN ROAD BY JIM BALLANTYNE WITH COVENANTS, CONDITIONS AND RESTRICTIONS: Corrie: I believe I saw Mike. Ballantyne: Mr. Mayor and members of City Council we believe we have all of the items to the City that the City has required. We have received the staff comments and responded and there were a couple items on the staff comments that I would like to address real quick. I don't know if I really need to go over these for the sake of time as long as the City Council has had a chance to see our response to the staff comments and they don't have any questions. I think they are pretty clear. Corrie: Council, any questions of Mr. Ballantyne? Rountree: Mr. Mayor, for the record I would like to have Mr. Ballantyne explain the changes in access on this subdivision? Ballantyne: Are you speaking specifically of item two on site specific comments? Rountree: Yes Ballantyne: David, he is from Keller, he is holding a copy of the final plat. Originally on our preliminary plat the comment was made by staff and I don't have the exact verbiage was basically that the fire department requires once we cross the lateral that a second Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 18 point of access is available. We all along had assumed that would be the easement through Norm Fuller's property that would provide that second point of access. In discussions with the Fire Department, the fire department made the comment that they would allow the sewer easement which was also a pedestrian pathway to be used as a secondary access for fire use. As long as it met certain criteria which we have outlined I believe there is a letter from the fire department that discusses that. We have agreed to that so we would use that as a secondary access until such time that we crossed about the middle of the project and went into phase 2, then if we were to cross that we would need the second access through Fuller's property. Our desire if you remember back, I think we started this process I wrote this date down August 8, 1995. If we look back in the process we discussed that Fuller Easement and that Corporate Drive extension and the fact that the preference I believe for the City and for Ada County Highway District was not to see that road go in and create another traffic situation on Meridian Road. But rather to see those dollars go toward a Corporate Drive extension which would be about I think about 150 feet to the South of where that extension would be. So our goal was to find a way to provide a secondary access without having to punch that street through with the hopes that within the next while that corporate drive extension would be put in and there wouldn't be two streets in effect within a hundred yards of each other. So the other advantage to doing that is that it provides a second access to the property owners on Pennwood and points west if Southwest 7t" I believe is blocked for some reason the fire department can't get through. So really it benefits both. The way it is set up, I know there is some concern as we went through the process by neighbors about that street going through. The way it is set up there are ballards there and it is a green area with a walkway and concrete pavers with grass growing through it for the fire department but there is no access for any other vehicles. The only other vehicle would be a City vehicle to work on the sewer system. Rountree: Thank you Corrie: Any other comments or questions? Thank you Mike. Council any further comments or questions you have? Morrow: Question for Gary, in terms of, this is a walkway sewer easement, is the grass an acceptable permanent solution for maintenance of the sewer item there. I guess the point of my question is that at such time as a natural second road access comes available into this unit does it make sense to have the grass still in place? Smith: I don't, Councilman, I don't think that it would need to be removed if that is what you are asking. I have seen some installations of grass (inaudible) as far as I know they continue to function as a semi grassy area that can support a vehicle. So I don't know that it would need to be removed, it might facilitate, we need to have or, I guess it would conform to what we have required in the past when we have a sewer line outside of a public right of way and we have an access line way above the sewer line. I think it should stay in place. I did have a note from Bruce Freckleton that we need to have a Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 19 letter from the fire department that this is an acceptable secondary access for them. I don't Morrow: In our packet there is a copy of a letter from Ken Bowers our Fire Chief to Keller and Associates outlining four items concerning that particular area. I guess my question would be is that sufficient for your needs, it would be the last page of the response received February 3rd from Keller and Associates. Smith: That is fine. Corrie: Any further comments or questions? I will entertain a motion for the request for final plat approval. Bentley: Mr. Mayor, I would move we approve the final plat for Troutner Business Park. Rountree: Second Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bentley, second by Mr. Rountree that we approve the final plat for Troutner Business Park, any further questions? Morrow: Question Mr. Mayor, the agenda item talked about also with the covenants and CC&R's, I guess my question is in terms of the motion is that just for the final plat? We have not had any discussion with respect to the CC&R's and are we going to split that out and talk about that after the motion. Crookston: I can inform the Council that I have the CC&R's, they are relatively thick, have not gotten through all of it yet. Corrie: Then maybe we can approve the final plat and bring the covenants and CC&R's up later. Is that the motion? Bentley: That is the motion Rountree: Second Corrie: You heard the motion, all those in favor of the motion? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea Corrie: We will bring those up now. Ballantyne: Mr. Mayor and Council that is fine with us, my only question is in regard to the development agreement, is it possible to do those together to approve the CC&R's and development agreement together so it doesn't cost us any time? Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 20 Corrie: Yes Ballantyne: Great, thank you. Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I would move then that we table the portion of item 5 with respect to the CC&R's until our meeting of February 18t" Bentley: Second Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Morrow, second by Mr. Bentley to do the CC&R's on the 18t", any further discussion? All those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea ITEM #6: FINAL PLAT: THE LAKE AT CHERRY LANE NO. 6 SUBDIVISION, 52 LOTS NORTH OF CHERRY LANE VILLAGE NO. 5, WEST OF TEN MILE ROAD BY STEINER DEVELOPMENT: Corrie: Steve? Bradbury: Mr. Mayor and members of the Council, my name is Steve Bradbury, I am representing Steiner Development. You have the final plat for Lake at Cherry Lane No. 6 before you. Yesterday Keith Jacobs of Pacific Land Surveyors faxed to the City a letter responding to staff's comments and I am going to kind of assume that staff has seen it, they are busy ignoring me right now. In any event and Mr. Jacobs is here of course as you and can respond to any questions that you may have with respect to any of those. But as I understand it Mr. Jacob's responses were all positive that he took into account the staff's comments and was willing to make whatever revisions or corrections were necessary. There is only one issue that we would like to have the Council take another look at. That has to do with, I guess it was a site specific comment number 10 which reads the club house and pool within this development shall be constructed prior to obtaining building permits on any of the residential lots. It goes on as discussed and acknowledged to Council by the developers representative on March 19, 1996 1 guess that must have been me, site plan to include parking and landscaping are to be approved prior to obtaining building permits. I went back and looked over the findings of fact and conclusions of law on the preliminary plat for this project and looked for the references for what the developers intentions were with respect to the construction of the club house, the recreation facilities. In fact I did represent to the Council that the developer's intention was to instruct those improvements up front with the balance of the subdivision improvements. That is in fact the developer's intention to build those things up front. As a matter of fact we would like to try to do is to have approval from the Council to commence construction of those improvements immediately along with the other subdivision improvements even perhaps before the final plat is actually recorded. Obviously we know we have to get the darn thing in the right place and that we want to work with the City staff to get that accomplished. The Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 21 problem with the proposal as staff has suggested is that it requires that thing be completed and an occupancy permit theoretically I guess issued before one single building permit can be issued for the construction of any of the residences in the subdivision. That it seems to us is perhaps a little bit of a harsh requirement. We don't have any problem with the idea that you folks would probably like to see some progress on that construction. It doesn't seem to us that it ought to be necessary that thing be absolutely completed and buttoned up and ready to go before we can dig one hole for one foundation. What we would like to ask the Council to do is to approve the construction of that facility in advance that is up front, but allow for the issuance of building permits and the balance of the subdivision conditioned on your satisfaction that there is adequate progress made toward the completion of that facility. I guess what we don't want to do is end up for whatever reason we can't get the darn thing absolutely 100% completed before the time that we are ready to at least start some of the dwellings out there that we end up having to lose all of that time. It seems to me that with some work with some staff to have them comfortable that the thing is getting built and second to have some bonding in place which the developer is willing to do that your concerns and your legitimate concerns that the facility will actually be built ought to be met without holding up the building permits on anything else out there. I think we all know that it is a fairly common practice to try to build the recreational facilities in subdivisions like this along with some of the first dwellings in the project. We would kind of like to have the Council consider allowing the project to go forward under those circumstances. That is all I had to say, I would be pleased to respond to any particular questions you might have of me. And as I said Mr. Jacob's is here and he can respond to any questions that you may have of him that have to do with engineering issues. Corrie: Council any questions? Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I guess my response Mr. Bradbury would that it was represented to the City in the public hearing that this would be built as part of the improvements. The same improvements of curb, gutter and sidewalk and so on and so forth. As we both know you can't sell lots until the final plat has been signed off in terms of at least in our City having those improvements in place. From a construction standpoint I don't see a major problem with all of those things going on at the same time so that it is in fact completed at the same time as the rest of the improvements are. To separate myself from the issue and address it as a builder. One of the major problems that you have as a builder on lots with these kinds of improvements if they are in fact not built or not under construction is convincing early buyers that they are going to be there and that they are going to be something to their liking. The advantage of having it done with the rest of the improvements of the plat is that from a marketing standpoint the potential homeowner sees what in fact he is going to get and either he or she will like that or dislike it and make their decision based on that. That is a personal opinion that won't enter into my desire to go with the representation that we bought off on in the public hearing process. I don't think it constitutes a hardship given the time of year. Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 22 Bradbury: I guess just in response and I certainly don't want to be argumentative but I guess in my mind I see a difference between saying we are intending to construct them up front with the subdivision improvements and the requirement that is now being imposed and that was never discussed that all of these things be completed prior to any building permits being issued for the balance of the subdivision. In my mind that is a leap, now perhaps it isn't in yours but in mine it is. I agree with you, I think that in the perfect world it is better to have all of the common elements built and constructed so that everybody who drives by or happens to look at the thing can see it and say yes it is there. But of course the practice is to try and be efficient and try to build these projects so that you can shorten the time frame between when you start spending money and the time that you start receiving money from the sales of the building lots. We just don't want, we are hopeful that the Council will take that into account and not hold up the issuance of any building permits just because we don't happen to have the facility entirely constructed and an occupancy certificate issued. The hope and the intention is to get it done as quickly as possible. We just would like not to be caught in the lock step of not being able to go forward while we are waiting for something whatever that something may be. I can't even predict what it might be and hopefully it will never happen. Anyway, that is what we would like to ask the Council to do, if the Council is so inclined. Corrie: Any further questions? Morrow: Mr. Mayor, question for staff, your response Shari and Gary, do you perceive this to be a difficult issue? Smith: Mr. Mayor and Councilman, I guess one of the questions not addressing that particular item but we did have a question concerning the width of the driveways. Site specific comment number 4, the comment from the developer's representative was that 15 foot wide driveways acceptable and will work in this development. We are concerned that is not going to be wide enough. Typically you have a 20 foot driveway on a double car garage and you need five feet from the edge of the driveway to the property line which is a highway district policy for a residence. I know under the PUD that most all of the rules are tossed out the window and the developer tries to do whatever they can get approval to do. We don't agree with the 15 foot driveway. Morrow: Question Mr. Mayor, Gary are you addressing for example on the plat map lot 40, lot 35, lot 29, 23, those are pretty much the corner lots in this layout? Smith: Yes Morrow: If I could answer your question from a standpoint of what we really do in the field with respect to flag lots and driveways. Generally the flag portion of the access to the lot. Often times your width of the driveway is only 12 feet because it serves as a roadway because the house itself from a practical standpoint sits back on the body of the driveway, I am sorry the body of the lot and in front of the garage if it is a two car Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 23 garage. You have 20 to 24 feet in terms of width for the parking pad if it is a three car garage you have 28 to 36 feet of parking pad with full service bays in front of the garage and at that point it (inaudible) and serves as really a roadway from the street to the parking pad. In today's world it is not uncommon on some three car garages where you have an off set face for there even to be an off set driveway parking pad in front of that portion of the garage. So I have to tell you from a practical standpoint the request for a driveway that is say virtually wide enough for a couple of cars to pass each other is outside of what the common practice is, 15, 16, 18 feet. In some cases you may want that. But that is usually a builder subdivision decision based on the CC&R's in the subdivision and on the design that the builder has approved by the owners association. So if you are going to honor, and the other point I wish to make is that on some flag lots there is a common driveway access between two lots such as the case of 35 and 34 where the approach is in common and then it veers off to access each unit and the 5 foot issue with respect to ACHD doesn't apply at all. Because the property line in fact ends up being under concrete. Thank you Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Any other questions or comments from Council? Rountree: Gary, did you have any other concerns or Shari? Smith: No Morrow: Mr. Mayor, to follow up on Mr. Smith's point I think it is appropriate that the developer be aware that on the flag lot the throat of the flag lot is an access driveway and not a parking driveway, is that clear and you will address that in your CC&R's and design review process internally. I have a question for staff that comes to mind, with, Gary and Shari, with respect to the club house and the pool as being part of the development process that the on site improvements are being done did you visualize issuing a building permit for that portion at start of construction. Do we have a process that allows that building permit for that structure even though the final plat has not been approved. Does that present a problem at all? (End of Tape) Smith: (Inaudible) it is not a lot until the plat is recorded. Morrow: So then the requirement of having it constructed prior to the final plat being recorded we wouldn't be able to do is that what you are saying because we couldn't issue a building permit for it? Smith: Well this subdivision No. 6 is a resubdivision of a lot in Number 6. Now if you, suppose we could issue a building permit for a structure on that lot in number 5 subdivision which is recorded I believe. Rountree: Five is not recorded, but it is going to be I believe. Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 24 Smith: So if number 5 was recorded we could issue a building permit for a structure on lot whatever this lot is that comprises number 6 which will be a different number after it is recorded. Rountree: That could be referenced though couldn't it? Smith: I suppose. The building permit would not be issued until the sewer and water were in the ground, a road base was constructed, the water line was active for fire protection purposes, street signs were installed. I think those are the minimum requirements that we have for a building permit to be issued. Corrie: Are street lights required at that time Gary? Smith: No sir, I don't believe so. Morrow: Mr. Mayor, in a sense then at that point what really happens is that they are within a matter of a few weeks of having the subdivision completed because basically all you are short is some asphalt for roadways and some street lights and those kinds of things. So, the course of construction with respect to the pool and the pool house or club house then would delay the ability to sell lots by as much as 45 to 60 days after essentially the subdivision was buildable. Am I thinking right there? Smith: I guess I didn't correlate those two together. Morrow: All right, my point is we can't issue a building permit for the pool house or the club house and the pool until essentially we have everything done in the subdivision in terms of development of that. Sewer and water lines, active water, curb, gutter and base for the street. If you can't issue a building permit for the structure until that point then and it is going to take 60 days to construct those items then the issue is that you have a subdivision sitting with nothing going on in it awaiting for that 45 days to construct that before you issue other building permits. So, it sits and does nothing. The requirement or the request of number 10 and even though the representative agreed according to this that the thing would be done prior to obtaining building permits on the residential lots it seems to me to represent an undue hardship when we could maybe bond around that and require by virtue of the bonding being in place a completion date of the pool house or the club house and the pool so that we has a City are guaranteed that stuff is completed prior to the majority of the subdivision being sold off and completed. Smith: I understand what you are saying Councilman, that is a decision the Council will have to make. I think my staff was just making reference to what the representative of the developer had stated at the time they last came before the Council. Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 25 Morrow: Don't misunderstand the staff is to be applauded for picking that up, it is obviously a representatives mistake but he went to the same school as the good attorney so it figures. Thanks Corrie: Any further comments of the Council? I think you pretty well got the eyes opened of what you need to do. If somebody wants to jump in and make a motion and see how it flies. Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I would move that we approve the final plat for the Lake at Cherry Lane No. 6 subdivision subject to all staff conditions with the exception of No. 10 underneath site specific. And that we require the developer owner to post a bond for completion of the club house and pool 90 days after the recording of the final plat and acquiring the appropriate building permit. Tolsma: Second Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Morrow, second by Mr. Tolsma, you heard the motion, anybody need the motion repeated? Any further discussion? Rountree: I am trying to understand the motion. Posting a bond 90 days upon successful recording of the final plat and getting a building permit. One or the other or both, are they going to be coincident? Morrow: No, the issue is that it requires a building permit to start the project. The building permit can be obtained prior to the final plat being recorded by virtue of the streets being in and the scenario that Gary painted for us. But in any event they require that the building permit at final plat date and they have got 90 days to construct their club house and pool and if not then the bond becomes collectible on the part of the City. Rountree: I understand now. Corrie: I will call for the question, all those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea TEN MINUTE BREAK ITEM #7: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A VARIANCE BY BUILDERS MASONRY PRODUCTS: Corrie: I will open the public hearing at this time and invite the member of the Builders Masonry Products to come forward. Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 26 Stephanie Churchman, 1300 East Franklin Road, Meridian, was sworn by the City Attorney. Churchman: Builders Masonry Products is requesting a variance from the to and through ordinance. I have reviewed the comments submitted by the Meridian sewer department, the Meridian public works department and Properties West and have addressed each concern below. I will give you a copy of this when I am finished. For the Meridian sewer department to hook up to the sewer system we understand and are in agreement to pre -treat the processed water before discharging to the sewer. An oil separator tank will be utilized in according with the City of Meridian pre-treatment personnel. With the Meridian public works department in reference to the sewer main installation in 1995 as part of the Five Mile Trunk Line extension to St. Luke's the Meridian public works department stated, "The applicant did not participate in the cost of the extension nor were they willing to aid in routing." From their comment the Meridian public works department implies we should have participated in the cost of this extension. This comes as a surprise to us. Builders Masonry Products was never notified of a requirement to participate in the cost for the sewer extension. Builders Masonry Products representatives also met many times with consultants retained by St. Luke's and with the former Mayor Grant Kingsford to find the best possible solution. During one of our first meetings a consultant suggested running the sewer line directly across our property under the asphalt. After much discussion re agreed to this if the construction could be finished before the beginning of our busy season. They stated that this could not be accomplished within the set time frame. This project would have been extremely disruptive to our business. Apparently the consultants agreed and rerouted the sewer line. Builders Masonry Products also feels the coordination of the prior sewer line installation should have no bearing on the approval of this variance. Meridian public works suggests that we be allowed to continue the use of the existing well for the protection of Masonry Products only and that we convert the office/warehouse and block plant areas to the City water system. Under this application for variance our plan was to have the office/warehouse area remain on well water and its existing septic system. Builders Masonry Products would make a decision to connect to the city water and sewer system for the office/warehouse area at a later time if that need exists. Demanding that we hook up to the city water when we already have an existing well for our facility is unreasonable and puts and undue financial burden on Builders Masonry Products for services that are not needed at this time. Their final statement, "Although Builders Masonry Products wouldn't realize a great benefit from the City's water system they would reap the benefits of the city sewer system" is accurate and the very reason that we are requesting a variance. By connecting to the sewer system we would be able to wash our trucks on site and discharge processed water through the sewer system. The alternative would be to design a treatment and disposable system on site. There would be no benefit for Builders Masonry Products to extend the water main across the property since we already have an existing on site potable water well that is in good operation and which capital investments have already been made. For Properties West Inc., Builders Masonry Products has already stated Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 27 that the hook up to the city water is unnecessary for purposes at this time. I can give you a copy of this. Corrie: Council, any comments or questions of Stephanie? Thank you, is there anyone else from the public that would like to issue testimony on this variance request? Hearing none, Council, question or discussion? Morrow: Just a question, the letter from Properties West that will be entered into the public record. Corrie: Any further comments or questions? I will close the public hearing, Council? Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I would like to have Gary Smith's comments with respect to this project. Smith: Mr. Mayor and Council, the request was to hook to the sewer only I believe. Our concerns in the past in particular where just a request for sewer is made is how do we monitor the amount of material entering our sewer, quantity wise. I think in this particular case we suggested that they connect at least part of this facility to the water system. Because of the ordinance requirements that are in existence today that permit the City Council to require a development or a property that is within 300 feet of a City facility to connect within 15 days after notice. That is part of the ordinance. We don't have a problem with them using their well for their production water. I don't know how much water they use, maybe they can give us some indication. But, under our present water demand for the City I would make the same statement, I don't remember who it was recently that was requesting to utilize or to connect to City Water, Mountain View Equipment wanted to utilize city water for only fire protection because they had an on site well and I didn't have a problem with that particular request. They are in the County. Morrow: Mr. Morrow, question Gary, I have worked on industrial projects where on the project by virtue of the special circumstances there was a flow meter station within the sewer line that monitored the actual flow or the out flow from the industrial entity and then they were billed according to that actual flow in that flow meter station and it is recorded 24 hours a day. Do we have provision in our ordinance to allow for that type of station? Smith: I don't think our ordinance is specific to the type of monitoring that would be installed but there are electronic devices that are available to monitor flow on a recorder. Morrow: And that would be maintained by the owner and read by the city if it is a normal application. Smith: We would have to make a provision, we don't have one of those in the system at this point, none exists. So I am a little bit ignorant as to what that will actually be, what Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 28 that piece of equipment looks like and how often we would have to physically read it, remove charts or whatever it might be. But I am sure that equipment is available. Morrow: I have actually worked on projects with those and it is readily available and the system seems to work pretty well, I think as we develop more of an industrial base we will have more of those site specific things if we want to have in position including pre- treatment and those other kinds of things that are designed specifically for a user. If this is a case for that. Smith: If we don't have a water metering device available that is correct. Water coming through a meter that we can relate to what is going into the sewer. Rountree: Question for Mr. Smith, do we have any numbers that relate to capacity demand from this user and the type of discharge that we would be receiving? Smith: No I don't. Churchman: According to your question we have our engineer that is representing us from Century West he can address that question if the Council allows? Corrie: Do I need to open the public hearing back up? Crookston: Yes Corrie: I will open the public hearing back up. John Schwartz, 5257 Fairview, Boise, was sworn by the City Attorney. Schwartz: There are a couple of things that I would like to mention and this is my discussion with the folks over at the sewer district. I understand what Gary's concern is, I was led to believe that the time that there were other ways to quantify the flows that are actually going to the treatment system. One would be to give our best estimate as to how much water was being generated from the industrial processes and also from the wash racks and so forth and take an average that way and be billed on that type of basis. There is the other mechanism that you mentioned that we could put in a flow meter that would measure the depth of flow over time and from that you could calculate the volume that would be going out through the lines as well. My concern is additional to that and you folks have this drawing in your package. The building that we are looking at hooking up to is the block plant building which is probably 500 to 600 feet south of where the main line runs across Franklin. The Masonry Builders Center at this point is not looking at the option of wanting to hook up the building that is up front which is where the warehouse and office facilities are located. So to best serve their needs it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to be running that water line through the full length of their property and then have to run a 500 to 600 feet to the south to run down to that block plant because they want to run a sewer line to that particular facility. The sewer Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 29 line itself runs if you will to the east or to the right side of that page or down along where that description of basin two is. It is about a 400 to 500 foot run to make that connection to the building. Again to make the requirement to run that water across the full length of the facility and then all the way into the block plant to accommodate relatively small flows I think is a pretty heavy requirement on that. The estimated flows are probably going to be maybe on the order of, well they have three drains into the cure room that they want to connect and then they have to deal with the wash area. So at best you are probably going to be looking at maybe 15 to 20 gallons an hour going into that facility. I am not sure if that addresses all of your questions on volumes. So the flows themselves are pretty insignificant it is just the issue that they want to use the vehicle was rack which is shown here on that drawing as well as run some other industrial drains into the system. In my mind I think it would be best served to allow us to estimate the flows to the system. I know it is easy to say we have a connection to the potable water line and you can put a flow meter on it. In this particular application you have a block plant that is using a lot of water into the process of batching of concrete and so forth. To be using a flow meter on the supply lines to calculate the usage of the sewer lines I think would be a major injustice as far as the actual quantity of water going back to the sewer system. So either a flow meter in line or estimating the quantities per month that would be agreeable to the sewer district I think would be the best approach for the client. Morrow: Mr. Mayor may I respond, the concept Mr. Schwartz in terms of the flow meter was on the sewer line not on the supply line. The flow meters that I am familiar with are actually on the sewer line. Schwartz: I understand that, but I believe Mr. Smith's comment was if you monitor the flow going into the facility then you charge that for the flow going out of the facility on the sewer lines, do I understand that statement? Smith: That is correct, that is what our ordinance requires on a commercial business. Schwartz: I don't think that is really represented here, it is not as if all of the water (inaudible) where they are going into a sanitary rest room facility where the water in pretty much matches the water going out that really doesn't apply here. Morrow: Well to take the point to clarify it a little bit more for you and my reason for discussing industrial uses and the need for us to begin to look into discharge flow meters is that in certain processing facilities they supply themselves with clean water which is well water and then they discharge major volumes of water into the sewer system and a city has now way of monitoring that except by virtue of a flow meter on the sewer line discharge side. What I am suggesting to you here is that you have the reverse where you use a lot of water if it were supplied by the City to use that water usage a means of calculating your sewage uses would be unfair. So in this case and in the former example flow meters on the sewage discharge side or the best and fairest way of monitoring that usage. Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 30 Schwartz: I agree to that approach but I think to take it a step further to require a client to comply with the to and through policy and run a water line for the full length of their property because they want to make a connection to the sewer system when they are willing to pay a hook up fee of $6000 to $7000 to make the connection to the line to defray the cost of running the line and building the facilities. In addition to that to run the line through the property and make them hook up to it when they don't need to I think is a little excessive. Morrow: Another comment Mr. Mayor, I think ultimately Mr. Schwartz for purposes of corporate planning the realities are that is going to happen before very long given what we are seeing going on in the sewage treatment business. The days of individual septic systems and those types of things are rapidly coming to close and I think that the issue here is that if it is not required at this time it will be soon so you need to adjust your plans accordingly. The two and through policy is a fair policy for land owners on down to develop. The question is that if it is paid for by somebody else then at such point in time when this facility hooks onto that water supply which is coming then they are unfairly enriched at somebody else's expense and I don't think this Council or future Council's is going to allow that to happen. So it is a question of timing as to what it is you are going to pay is what it boils down to. Schwartz: Well I worked on a similar project up in Idaho Falls, not to bring another project into this scenario, it was that same type of a situation where the City of Idaho Falls was requesting a client to bring a line up through the full length of their property which amounted to probably 3/4 of a mile, it was probably an $80,000 installation and they only wanted to install a fire hydrant to protect one of the petroleum tanks. The City did give them a waiver saying it wasn't necessary to run the line for the full length of the property because it wasn't really that much of a beneficial use for the people on through on the other side of the property at that time. So it seems to me that there may be some flexibility here to either delay the requirement or to waive it altogether and that is what Builders Masonry Center is (inaudible). Morrow: I have no more questions Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Council, any further questions or discussions? Rountree: I just have a clarification I guess I need from Council. It seems to me that what is being asked for is only one part of the equation, a variance to hook up to the sewer. It seems to me that there also needs to be a variance to our existing ordinance at that their request to not hook up with City water. Isn't that a requirement of our ordinance that they do that? Crookston: If they are within 300 feet of city water they are required to hook up to both sewer and water under our ordinance. Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 31 Rountree: And that is the case? Smith: Yes sir. Morrow: Did I understand you Mr. Smith that the water is at their western boundary. Smith: Yes Morrow: So to follow up on Councilman Rountree's point, are we short a variance here Counselor or is this variance (inaudible) asking for both? Corrie: Well they are requesting a variance Mr. Morrow from the to and through ordinance. Rountree: That is the request for the variance? Morrow: For the water Corrie: For the water, and then they are asking for variance that they don't have to hook up to the water, but they want to hook up to the sewer. That would not be a variance. But they don't want to do the to and through nor do they want to hook up to the water, is that correct? Crookston: The to and through is in both the sewer ordinance and the water ordinance. Corrie: So then counselor, if I am not mistaken they would have to get a variance both ways? Crookston: That is correct if they are within the 300 feet. Corrie: Which they are. Smith: Mr. Mayor, the sewer is already existing along their east boundary. So their only involvement in the sewer would be to construct the service line from their facility to the interceptor. So it is to and through on the water is the variance request. Morrow: And the requirement to hook up to water, it is two fold right? To and through and hook up. Smith: Correct. The connection to the sewer line is going to require crossing Five Mile Creek I believe that is going to require a corp. of engineers permit. I would also respectfully request that a metering device be required to measure the discharge to the sewer. And that our comments from our Waste Water Superintendent be required as part of the agreement if that is agreed to. Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 32 Corrie: I have a question Counsel, if we have a development on the east side of this development, who puts in the water line to those people? Crookston: It depends on where the necessary flow would have to come from. It would be, if they put it to and through their property to the water and it goes to the edge of their line to service property to the east of their property the developer of that property has to pay for it. Corrie: If we give them the variance then the person that wants to develop next to them do we come back on the property owner of Masonry and they have to put that to and through at that time to extend water to those people so they can have water and sewer. (inaudible). Crookston: I believe that would have to be part of the agreement if that was granted. That should be part of the variance or conditions (inaudible). Morrow: Mr. Mayor, as a point of follow up, if memory serves me there is a development application before us now for the property immediately on the east side. Corrie: That was my point. Morrow: It is for that 40 acre parcel and we have approved I believe the first phase of that or are in the process of approving that first phase plat which is the northeast corner of that 40 acres that currently borders what is now called Locust Grove. Gary on that proposal where is their water coming from, do you remember? I don't remember the presentation? Smith: The Tamura Berry project, that is coming off of Lanark and Locust Grove extension of that water line for that first phase. Eventually it would be extended down Locust Grove and Franklin and then west along Franklin. Morrow: To create the loop. Smith: Correct Rountree: So this would be the completion of the loop? Smith: Yes Rountree: Could that be a condition of the variance. Morrow: Well I think in terms of the variance is yes it will probably be a condition of the variance but we are talking a matter of months here not years. Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 33 Bentley: Mr. Mayor, in our packets there are comments from Chief Bowers on this issue, it states that we need this line to run and tie into the loop system to get the water flows brought up and in other areas. Plus we need the fire hydrant. So this line is going to have to be put in soon. Corrie: Are you following what we are saying here. If you are ready to make a motion then I will close the public hearing. Churchman: There is also another development that we have, I think it is Properties West who is directly across the street from us on Franklin to the South of us, and I don't know how far along they are in their development process. But that would close the loop and there are options there that down the road could share the cost in an equitable manner. Corrie: Would that work Gary? Smith: Yes Morrow: Question Gary, does the Properties West proposal project go that far west, I thought the Properties West proposal was primarily the property on top of the hill to the east of this site. Smith: I think without a map in front of me I think it is just about directly south of Marketplace. Morrow: (Inaudible) part of the cemetery and a couple of brick houses and then the property west property? Smith: The houses I think are mostly across the street from the industrial park, Meridian Industrial Park. I think that Barnes' project is just about straight across the street from Builders Marketplace. Morrow: To go back and revisit this, on the corner, the 40 acre parcel of the original parcel that McClure's had is on the corner of the southwest corner of Locust Grove and Franklin Road. Now the five acre portion or whatever it is that is actually that corner is not part of the Barnes proposal. Smith: That is correct Morrow: Then what happens is that essentially that proposal is the property on top of the hill, right? Smith: There is a narrow little strip between the five acre that McClure owns and I think the beginning of the Barnes piece which pushes it farther to the west. Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 34 Morrow: But the properties west proposal has the obligation to take the line to and through his property and his property is not in common or is in common with part of the Builders Masonry property. Smith: I think it is pretty close to being straight across, south. That is what Stephanie said that cost could be shared between the two properties. I don't recall where Mr. Barnes is in his proposal. Morrow: He is in P & Z somewhere. Smith: I don't know how fast the phasing of the Tamura -Berry project is going to move forward, it has been quite a while getting through this first phase I know that. It could be awhile before Tamura -Berry makes the corner on Locust Grove and Franklin and heads west. I just don't know what their schedule is. Morrow: Well the loop system that Chief Bowers refers to doesn't occur until that turns the corner and gets to the west in any event. Rountree: You can close the hearing as far as I am concerned. Corrie: I don't know what is going on down at the end there but we will go ahead, I will close the public hearing. I guess we can entertain a motion for findings of fact or any further discussions, it is entirely up to you. Morrow: I guess for point of discussion to give the owner from my perspective where I see this thing going is that I do see a flow meter flow station mandatory to monitor the flow so it is both fair to the City and to the owners. I do see if a variance is to be granted from my perspective the requirement when the water line needs to be put in it gets put in and it doesn't hold up anybody because development is well underway in that particular area. I think those things need to be addressed so the delay is (inaudible). That is my position. Corrie: Any further comment of Council? Rountree: I would agree with that summation if we were to act favorably on the variance request those would be the minimum conditions. Morrow: Mr. Mayor with that, I would move to that we instruct the City Attorney to prepare findings of fact and conclusions for the variance requested by Builders Masonry Products. Rountree: Second Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 35 Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Morrow, second by Mr. Rountree to direct the City Attorney to draw up findings of fact and conclusions of law for the variance request by Builders Masonry Products, any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea ITEM #8: CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A TAEKWANDO SCHOOL BY JOHN AND BECKY SCHIEBOUT: Corrie: Would John or Becky or their representative come up first. Is there anybody from the Taekwando School here? Morrow: Mr. Mayor that being the case I would move that we table to our meeting February 18. Rountree: Second Corrie: Shari? Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council I don't know why they are not here tonight, we did try to expedite this so that they could get in as soon as possible. Corrie: They did know it was tonight? Stiles: They were informed it was tonight. If you are not familiar with it, it is the Idaho Tent and Canvas school, they may have misunderstood and thought if they had no problems with the findings that there was no need to be here. Corrie: Was there any testimony at the public hearing for them? Berg: I don't believe there was any public testimony for them at the public hearing at the P & Z level. It was just their explanation and comments, to the staff comments. Corrie: Since I have a motion on the floor I would need to have the motion rescinded and the second rescinded if that is so desired by the Council. Morrow: Mr. Mayor, although I prefer testimony by the applicant on any issue, based on Shari's input I would withdraw my motion to table to the 18tH Rountree: I will withdraw my second. Corrie: The motion has been withdrawn. Bentley: Mr. Mayor, I have a question for Shari, did you address the signage in this? Did you address the A -frames? Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 36 Stiles: Yes I did. Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I would move that we adopt the findings of fact and conclusions as prepared for us by P & Z. Rountree: Second Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Morrow, second by Mr. Rountree that we accept the findings of fact and conclusions of law that were drawn up by Planning and Zoning, any further discussion? Roll call vote. ROLL CALL VOTE: Morrow - Yea, Bentley - Yea, Rountree - Yea, Tolsma - Yea MOTION CARRIED: All Yea Corrie: Entertain a motion for the conclusion. Morrow: Mr. Mayor, the City Council of the City of Meridian hereby approves the conditional use permit requested by the applicant for the property described in the application with the conditions set forth in the findings of fact and conclusions of law or similar conditions as found justified and appropriate by the City Council That the property be required to meet the water and sewer requirements, the fire and life safety codes, uniform fire code, parking, paving, landscaping requirements, all staff conditions and all ordinances of the City of Meridian. The conditional use should be subject to review upon notice to the applicant from the City. Tolsma: Second Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Morrow, second by Mr. Tolsma on the decision and recommendation, any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea ITEM #9: CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A CRAFT STORE WITH AN ESPRESSO SHOP BY CLIFF & LISA SEXTON AND STEWART AND KRIS HASKELL: Haskell: I am Stewart Haskell, I am representing my partners and my wife. The business in question is at 141 East Carlton. I live in Boise, I don't know if that makes any difference to you or not, I retract that last statement. Our intentions are to operate a craft store with an espresso shop on the side to enhance the, one to enhance the other. The craft store is currently under the transfer of a conditional use permit for the Flowers of Nature shop that was there before. And now we are here to get the conditional use permit to add the Espresso shop to the building as well. We have a few questions about some of these facts and findings that I am not real familiar with, this is Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 37 a first time process for me and my partners. Hopefully you can answer those questions for me. Actually I believe this all starts with number eight, is that correct, 8 on page 10, is that where the requirements start there? As far as the conditions placed on the granting of a conditional permit to minimize adverse impact on development recommended by Planning and Zoning. I assume that 8 alpha and bravo those are the conditions. Well I am going to start right off the top here, I notice in 8b, that Ada County Highway District is not listed as one of the required people to sign on this, but they have put their input in and they do need to sign off on it or something along that line. Rountree: That is actually covered by 8c. Haskell: Right, but it wasn't listed here nor was it listed back here in the decision of the Planning and Zoning Committee. That really is the, ACHD's requirements or recommendations or, that is what we have the most concern with because we really didn't plan on spending that extra money to put in new curbs and gutters. I don't know, I may be wrong in the way I read this, but the ACHD statement here on their facts and findings under b, it says that it meets their standards and policy, the site itself meets their standards and policies but it could be made to conform with their requirements. Then the next paragraph down says that ACHD doesn't have a problem with the site unless the site itself is going to be changed. At this point in time we have no plans in changing the site and so I guess what I am asking is are we still going to be required to put in new curbs, and gutters with the approach cuts and the pedestrian ramps on the corner? Morrow: (Inaudible) approval of the original flower shop (inaudible) immediately to the south those requirements were not waived (inaudible) it did put in a pedestrian ramp on the corner. It is my understanding from talking to the inspectors involved in that, that ACHD is aware that the requirements (inaudible) chose not to enforce it because it had been waived on the corner site that this application is for (inaudible) are that at some point in time that the whole site would be re -developed and that at that juncture (inaudible) curb and gutter and curb cuts would all be (inaudible) so that was the reasoning behind the waiving of the requirements and the prior usage as a flower shop. Haskell: The pedestrian ramps on the corner really I checked with Jeff Lincoln over at Record Steel and Construction and he gave me some estimates on the entire curb and gutter as well as the pedestrian ramps and the approach. The pedestrian ramps really wouldn't be that much of a burden, I figured around $250 to put those in. So we can do that right now. The curb and gutter is rather expensive and it is going to be, I figured this all up, it is pretty close to around $4000 to replace the curb and install new curbs and gutters. That, like I said, that wasn't a cost that we had figured in for our start up. But like I said, the pedestrian ramp we can put those in. However, there on that corner of 2nd and Carlton there is a storm drain there that sits up higher than the corner itself. So if there were heavy rains or anything the water would build up and flood out that pedestrian ramp before it would go into the storm drain. So I don't know that could cause a problem there. Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 38 Morrow: The other part of the issue though would be and not to be technical (inaudible) is substandard in terms of (inaudible) double transition, you have to do the curb and gutter (inaudible) Although I think your cost estimates are really optimistic I don't think it is taking into consideration those technicalities that are involved with that particular site and curb and gutter (inaudible). If you physically look at the pedestrian ramps on the Alger site you can see where the transition of (inaudible) and those were not done quite correctly. So at some point in time the curb and gutter is replaced part of that stuff has to be dug out (inaudible) Haskell: Well, we would like to request that the curb and gutter at a minimum be postponed if not waived as well for us. But at a minimum postponed until we can get our business on our feet and create some cash flow to where we can put that new curb and gutter in. So I guess I did misunderstand the reading of those paragraphs that said that it does conform to their standards but it can be made, do I misunderstand that? I know when we were at Planning and Zoning there was some confusion with Mr. Borup and Mr. Oslund as to the exact meaning of these two paragraphs. Morrow: I think the answer is yes and no. The confusion is Haskell: That is basically what Mr. Borup and Mr. Oslund said. Morrow: The confusion is when the ACHD inspector himself comes out he will say that this portion conforms, this portion doesn't conform and it is a real, basically it is kind of a mess. It is a situation where you are trying to integrate new with the old. Again to go back to the (inaudible) but with the provision that if the property is redeveloped meaning that you do a substantial addition or something or you demolish a structure and use the site to build a totally new building then all of the provisions of ACHD would be required (inaudible) because it is a total rebuild or it is a major add on, whatever the case may be. If you are not (inaudible) then there is some real rationale with waiving those requirements. Haskell: Well as far as the site itself goes at this point in time we have no intentions of changing anything on the site itself. You should have the drawing of the house itself and basically all we are going to do is put a coffee shop in this 8 foot by 24 foot porch. There is really going to no change to the site itself other than the building of a pedestrian or a handicapped accessible ramp from the loading area. We were thinking that we would put handicapped parking right here in the loading area or slash driveway if that would be acceptable so that they have easy accessible to the walkways and the ramp up to the east door there into the espresso shop. Other than that, that is all the site plans changes that we have at this time. Now eventually if our business really picks up then we may add a parking lot back here in the grass area and then at that point we would conform to the curb and gutter requirements with the approaches and those other items. Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 39 Rountree: Do you have any other comments on the findings then? Haskell: I just had some questions is all. As I start through, okay, outside lighting, basically we are just going to provide security flood lights, outdoor lighting type stuff. The, now on the signage, there is already an exterior sign there and I assume that has been permitted and do I need to provide or obtain a permit for that sign at this point? I am sure that it must meet the standards of the City, I don't know. Stiles: I am not aware whether a sign permit was obtained for that or not. I don't think there is any problem with the sign. Haskell: My next question is Mr. McCoy was concerned about flashy neon signs or whatever. Do we need permits for interior neon signs, open and close or espresso signs? Bentley: Just so the airplanes don't start landing. Haskell: Not a problem, I did have a question about the A -frame signs though. It says in here they are not permitted however as we drive through Meridian up and down the streets the A -frame signs are all over the place. Rountree: And they are not permitted. Haskell: (Inaudible) Corrie: You would probably get it taken down. Haskell: I understand, that was just a question I had. Bentley: It is being worked on. Haskell: Where can I get the life safety requirement codes from? Stiles: The building department would as part of your inspection. Haskell: So building department and fire department, okay. The underground sprinkling, is that something if I am going to change my landscaping I need to require underground sprinkling? Or, does my existing property need to be underground sprinkled or is that just for parking? That is item 12 (inaudible). Stiles: Are you currently flood irrigating? Haskell: Yes it does have flood irrigation. Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 40 Stiles: I don't believe that we have been requiring people to quite flood irrigating however if you did want to do your parking lot and we would expect it to be done when those improvements are made. Haskell: I figured that was probably parking lot areas. We are in the process of obtaining a letter, a notarized letter from Mr. Brewer about using his, backside of his mortuary parking as an off site parking and (inaudible). I have called Mr. Freckleton and gotten in touch with him about the sewer. Other than that, Central District Health I have contacted Central District Health and they have given me the requirements and everything for what needs to happen and I will just obtain the appropriate permits, I have already gotten a plumbing permit and any other work that needs to be done. Our main concern was the curb and gutters. Is there any kind of program that is available that we can sign up for. The lady at the Highway District had told us that there was some kind of neighborhood enhancement project that you could sign up for to get help to pay for the curbing and guttering or put a lien on the house. Morrow: I think what she was referring to was an LID, an LID is a fairly complicated process by which you have to have several neighbors come together and sign and it requires a majority of 75% or 80% or something like that, it is a major majority, 60% approval and then you take on yourselves as that group in terms of the LID and do the approval. It is not normally (inaudible) it would be a whole neighborhood. Haskell: All that I asking that we either postpone the curbing and guttering or just waive it. That is all I have. Corrie: Thank you, Council, any further comments or questions of staff? I guess I will entertain a motion on the conditional use permit, on the findings. Rountree: Just for discussion I and per the applicant's request the item I believe he was concerned with is on page 12 of the findings of fact and conclusions is it item C3. I am not sure replacing the curb and gutter at this point in time is particularly necessary in that part of town. I would suggest that we either delete item 3 or rewrite it to state that the applicant shall not be required to replace damaged curb and gutter at this time. Morrow: If I could discuss that a little more, I guess from my perspective we have some problem with some other conditions there. The applicant shall construct a 16 to a 20 foot wide curb cut on 2nd Street located a minimum of 50 feet south of Carlton Street. What is the purpose of that? Rountree: I think that is if they choose to put that loading area in there. There is a driveway and (inaudible) Morrow: I understand that, but it seems to me that the way it is written if we adopt that in that format he is going to do it whether (inaudible) Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 41 Rountree: (Inaudible) condition the requirement on them putting in the loading area and getting a permit to do such. I assume that would require a building permit. Morrow: Well at the very least it requires for a curb gutter permit from ACHD to make the curb cut in which case then the conditions apply. Rountree: There is already a condition they have to meet ACHD's permits or needs to get a permit to do the work in the public right of way. That also ties into item 5 about paving that particular driveway. That would be covered by City ordinance that if they put in a driveway it has to be paved. Morrow: Well is that item 5 in your interpretation or is ACHD mandating that they have a minimum of a 30 foot driveway in terms of length is kind of what that tells me. Rountree: Yes, if it is going to be 28 feet long they are kind of out of luck. Morrow: I am not sure that given the distance to the garage or wherever that is, if they have got 30 feet that they can (inaudible). Haskell: As far as the curb cuts, there is already an existing one there for that driveway but it is not 16 or 20 feet, it probably more like 12 feet. The driveway itself is not made of gravel it has two paved strips that run up with grass in between. I think when we talked to a lady at ACHD her main concern was that it wasn't a gravel driveway that when we backed out it would be gravel into the street. Morrow: Well (inaudible) document is written it appears that they have to do that (inaudible) to say that if (inaudible) driveway that it will conform to the ACHD standards. Rountree: I don't have a problem with that, the easier solution would be just to delete items C2, 3 and 5 from the conditions. Corrie: I don't understand, you are not going to be building anything at all because they are going to charge you impact fees if you start building there. Haskell: There is no construction as far as, no construction, just interior remodeling. Corrie: Because there is an impact fee they are going to tag onto you. Haskell: No exterior construction. Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I would move that we grant the conditional use permit for a craft store with espresso shop. Mr. Mayor, I retract everything I said thus far. I would move that we adopt the findings of fact and conclusions of law deleting under item C, page 12 conditions number 2, 3, 5 on page 13. Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 42 Rountree: Second Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Morrow, second by Mr. Rountree that we approve the findings of fact and conclusions of law of the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission with the exclusion of item C 2 on page 12 and C3 and 5 on page 13, any further discussion? Roll call vote? ROLL CALL VOTE: Morrow -Yea, Bentley - Yea, Rountree - Yea, Tolsma - Yea MOTION CARRIED: All Yea Corrie: Conclusion? Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I would move that the City Council of the City of Meridian approve the conditional use permit requested by the applicants for the property described in the application with the conditions set forth in the findings of fact and conclusions of law as amended or similar conditions as found justified and appropriate by the City Council, that the property be required to meet the water and sewer requirement, the fire and life safety codes, uniform fire codes, parking, paving and landscaping requirements and all of the ordinances of the City of Meridian. The conditional use should be subject to review upon notice to the applicants by the City. Rountree: Second Corrie: Motion made and seconded on the decision and recommendation with the inclusion of as amended after conclusions of law, all those in favor? Opposed? f•Is] 19I L[N_1VV121OW-11IViW.I Morrow: Mr. Mayor, as a point of discussion here should this pedestrian ramp prove to be unfeasible (inaudible) should the drainage problem prove to make that thing unfeasible I think there ought to be some flexibility that they not have to do that. Rountree: I agree, if it (inaudible) possibly that is something that staff and the others can work out with ACRD. Corrie: Staff do you know what you are do with the recommendation of Council on the water issue and you accept that responsibility without mental reservation or hesitation whatsoever. ITEM #11: VALLEY SHEPHERD CHURCH: REQUEST FOR HOOK UP TO WATER AND SEWER: Corrie: Is there a representative from Valley church here tonight? Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 43 Roylance: Mr. Mayor and City Council my name is Dave Roylance, I am a civil engineer and land planner representing the Nazarene Church. In the audience is a few of the church members here, you probably know them, Dale Ownby, Randy Peterman (inaudible) they are here on behalf of the Nazarene Church. What we are requesting is water and sewer service to our project that is 34 acres located (inaudible) Corrie: David, I hate to interrupt but can you get closer to the mic. Roylance: I wrote you a letter on January 28th of this year and maybe what I will do is just paraphrase or read parts of that to explain our request. The Nazarene Church is attempting to purchase approximately 34 acres immediately south of Elk Run subdivision No. 2 on the west side of Meridian Road. The property purchased is subject to obtaining adequate sewer and water facilities along with other utilities and the correct zoning and approvals to allow construction at the facility. It has been the intent of the Nazarene church to submit an annexation and rezone request to the City of Meridian and we have diligently pursued that objective for the past few months. In order to be annexed into the City we must be contiguous to the current City limits. There is one property owner between us and the existing City boundary and currently that property owner after thought and study doesn't wish to be annexed into the City. We have aggressively pursued this annexation route and all other annexation routes without success. In order to develop this property we are left with one option. We would like to submit a land use application to Ada County and seek approval with City water and sewer. It is doubtful that Ada County will support the project without central sewer and water services. We anticipate that in the near future there will be an annexation path to Meridian city limits and when that occurs we agree to annex without delay. We are currently in the impact area of Meridian City and agree to comply with all Meridian city requirements and recommendations including the Meridian city design review of the project and facilities and executing a development agreement if necessary. We propose extending the sewer and water mains south along Meridian Road to our project at our expense and in conformance with the requirements of the Meridian City Engineer. So in a nut shell I guess in summary we are about 165 feet away from being contiguous and despite our best efforts we can't get contiguous, we can't get a path. We don't think that we can develop it, with septic tank and wells and we really want to be in the City. We want to be served by the City and that is our request. We are in the urban services planning area. We think in the near future that being that close that there will be a path. And as stated the second there is in a heart beat we will apply for annexation. So that is our request. Corrie: I have no questions of David I have one of Gary. Rountree: Do you have either an on site well or plans for a well for irrigation purposes? Roylance: There is an on site well and I think we will convert it to irrigation uses. believe there is on site surface water and if there is to the extent possible we want to use that to irrigate the bigger areas, soccer field and park. Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 44 Corrie: Any further questions of David? Thank you, questions of the Council to staff? Morrow: Technical question Gary, why is the sewer line short of what it is on the plans, do we know that? Smith: Yes sir, US West fiber optics strayed outside of their easement along the west right of way line of Highway 69. When the contractor exited Elk Run No. 2 with the sewer and installed his manhole and turned to go south he clipped the fire optic conduits. They are outside of their easement, we have contacted the State Highway Department, the State Highway Department has contacted them and US West told them that they are going to have to move their fiber optics and US West said no we are not. So there is a bit of a stalemate there. Bentley: Finish clipping it. Smith: In order to continue south the only option that we have with the sewer is to move out toward the road and get into the shoulder of the highway. The State Highway Department doesn't want to talk to us about that. So it is a little bit of a difficult situation and I am not sure how it is ever going to get resolved. Rountree: Maybe this is an opportunity to get it resolved. Morrow: Well very candidly I guess the issue boils down to that is what ought to be done. (Inaudible) outside of its deal and it gets cut, the person doing the cutting has no liability. Smith: Can we quote you on that Councilman? Crookston: Mr. Mayor, the City does have condemnation authority and if we have to do that we can do it. If it is outside of the easement (inaudible) if it is not a proper use of the easement we don't have to pay anything, I don't believe we have to pay anything. Smith: Should we proceed on that basis then, can our City Attorney advise me of how we should proceed to get that sewer line finished to the underside of the Kennedy lateral where it is suppose to be. Bentley: Yes Corrie: Do you want a vote on it, it is a consensus of the Council on record that is what we will do. Rountree: I have a question for Gary, do we have the water? Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 45 Smith: Yes, the water is on the east side of the highway and it doesn't seem to be, nothing is interfering with its extension. Rountree: Do we have sufficient water supply for this development to take care of both potable and fire supply? Smith: We should have, well no. 17 is going to be coming on line within a couple of months. This is in that high pressure zone so we should be all right. They will have to bore under Highway 69 to get water service to this property. Corrie: Any further questions? Morrow: I have one question, with respect to the property that doesn't wish to be annexed, obviously the sewer line is going to come across the front of that is there not a provision for late comers so that these folk could recapture some of their cost from that piece of property? Smith: Yes Corrie: I guess we are ready for the question on the request for hook up to water and sewer then. David how soon are you going to plan on start building in there? Roylance: Start building, that could be awhile we still have to go through the Ada County processes, then we have to do all of the planning and that. Does anybody know when we might start building, it could be a ways out (inaudible). Corrie: Two to five years, thank you. You may be annexed by the time (inaudible) Morrow: I would move that we grant the request for the hook up to the City water and City sewer services to the Valley Shepherd Church subject to ordinance conditions. Rountree: Second Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Morrow, second by Mr. Rountree that we grant the request for sewer and water hook up be granted according to ordinance conditions, any further questions? Hearing none all those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea ITEM #12: WATER/SEWER/TRASH DELINQUENCIES: Corrie: This is to inform you in writing if you choose to you have the right to a predetermination hearing at 7:30 P.M. Tuesday, February 4, 1997 before the Mayor and City Council to appear in person and be judged on the facts and defend the claim made by the City that your water, sewer or trash bill is delinquent. You may retain Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 46 counsel, this service will be discontinued on February 12, 1997 unless payment is received in full. Is there anyone present that wishes to contest their water, sewer or trash delinquency? Seeing none, they are hereby informed that they may appeal or have the decision of the City reviewed by the Fourth Judicial District Court pursuant to Idaho Code. Even though they do appeal their water will be shut off, the amount of the turn off list is $27,739.74. 1 will entertain a motion for the turn off schedule to be approved. Bentley: So moved Tolsma: Second Corrie: Motion made and seconded for the approval of the turn off schedule, all those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea ITEM #13: APPROVE BILLS: Bentley: Mr. Mayor, I make a motion we approve the bills. Rountree: Second Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bentley, second by Mr. Rountree for approval of the bills, all those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea ITEM #14: DEPARTMENT REPORTS: Corrie: Gary Smith Smith: Thank you Mr. Mayor, Council members, first item concerns the concept plan or the preliminary plat for Tully Park. I am here this evening to request any comments that you may have. I have received some comments that Councilman Rountree forwarded to me from the Parks and Recreation Commission, which I distributed to you on January 25th. Also today I received a preliminary set of drawings that are stamped 75% complete. If it is your wishes to makes some changes to the original plan that was submitted to you in line with what the Parks and Recreation Committee has suggested I would really like to have your decision so that we can proceed because we are getting to a point with this consultant that we are going to have to quit Bentley: Gary, on the drawing, I don't know if I spoke to you about this or not. I talked with the Chief and we talked about not doing any paving along the fence line. Looking at this latest drawing they were going to pave through about 3 or 4 lots for a walk way. Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 47 The chief and I both feel we should move that down to where you have the basketball courts along the wall that it splits between there and goes direct to the rest rooms. That way you can prevent the kids from being on their roller skates and roller blades and skateboards and raising noise at the back of those lots. Do you understand what I am saying? Bring me your drawing. (Inaudible) that way we can keep the kids away from the back fences. Is that doable? Smith: (Inaudible) so you want the pathway to split the basketball court and the gravel road would remain where it is, is that correct? Bentley: Right Smith: Where does the pathway go once it gets to the restrooms? Does it stop at the restrooms? Bentley: Right and continues down toward the fountain, or you took out the one to the fountain didn't you? Smith: No Rountree: Gary actually suggested that it be retained to provide access to the ball fields (inaudible) Smith: We need some way to get things back and forth across there. Morrow: So if I understand this right you are coming off the (inaudible) and then down between the baseball diamonds to a point on the north boundary, is that what (inaudible). Smith: That is the sketch that you have in front of you (End of Tape) Morrow: (Inaudible) then it continues down here (inaudible) road stays a gravel surface as opposed to being paved. Bentley: Mr. Mayor, I have one other question Gary, are we going to put sidewalk around the inside of the parking lot? Smith: Yes, it would be sidewalk on the park side of the parking lot. There wouldn't be any sidewalk on the south side of the parking lot and there would be sidewalk on Linder Road on the west side of the landscape buffer strip. Corrie: Are we still stuck with that $61,000 impact fee? Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 48 Smith: I don't know, I asked Wayne Crookston to look into that for us, Council had requested his advice and help on that several meetings ago. I don't know the answer to that. Corrie: You want a time scheduled a definite date to notify you on any changes they want to see (inaudible) Smith: Yes sir if we are going to continue I need to do that because our consultant is running out of work. He submitted these drawings to me this afternoon and he is just coming to a halt to when he can proceed and finish the final details. He is saying he is 75% done with the way it was laid out and he is going to continue I guess if that is the wishes of the Council with the way the original was laid out. I haven't transmitted any of these changes from the parks and recreation committee to him yet. So his drawings right now show the design of the park as it was originally proposed because he hasn't heard anything otherwise. Corrie: Does Council have any further changes that you know of, or do the parks and rec. people? If not why don't we just submit this to him then if the Council so approves. Rountree: I make a motion that Gary advance the recommended changes to the consultant and have him press on with final details of the plan and be on concept for Tully Park. Morrow: Second Corrie: Motion made and seconded, any further discussion? All those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea Smith: The second item I have concerns the Transportation Task Force Committee and the minutes that were distributed, if you have any comments on those and I can finalize that. Morrow: Unless there are no comments I would move that the City Council endorse the Transportation Task Force study and forward that to ACHD. Rountree: Second Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Morrow, second by Mr. Rountree to move it to the ACHD stage now, all those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 49 Smith: Thank you, Councilman Bentley directed us to some fill for the Tully Park which we have secured and Cloverdale Nursery has been contacted to provide us with a price to haul that material which they have. They have quoted us $3.75 a yard and I think the last time they hauled material it was $4.00 so it is a little bit cheaper than it was. We are estimating somewhere between 1000 and 1500 yards are available there. So, I told them with your approval to proceed, it will be somewhere between $3750 and $5620 dollars. Again depending on how many actually loads they haul. Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I would move we approve the expenditure of $3.75 per yard to Cloverdale Nursery to haul the fill dirt to Tully Park. Rountree: Second Corrie: Motion made and seconded, all those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea Bentley: If you will check with Bob Hailey at the School District, I talked to him about getting the dirt that they were talking about having to move to construct the stadium over at the high school, they need a home for it too. Smith: Thank you Corrie: I would ask the Council, I believe this is donated dirt is this correct? Smith: Yes Corrie: Perhaps with their permission I will send a letter. If you each would like to have your name on it I will be glad to attach that to it with the letter. Smith: Thank you that would be good. Morrow: I think as a matter of policy what we ought to make sure what happens in the future for these kinds of things is that yes we do send a letter of thanks and it is endorsed by all five elected officials. Rountree: Should we indicate some kind of monetary value of that to the individual so they can utilize that as a tax advantage, because they are going to need that. Morrow: I think that would be a side letter. Smith: I think there is a form down there (inaudible). Corrie: (Inaudible) Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 50 Smith: The next item is a bid opening that we had on Thursday, January 30th concerning roadway rehab at the Waste Water treatment plant and seal coating of the City's parking lot on Broadway, East Broadway. I think you have copies of the bid tabulations in your packets do you. The low bidder for the reconstruction and seal coating at the waste water plant was Park Town Construction. That company, the president is Brad Wheeler and they have listed Idaho Sand and Gravel as their subcontractor. Idaho Sand and Gravel will be doing all of the asphalt work for them. The low bidder for the seal coating of the City Hall parking lot was Hukill's Fine Grading of Nampa, $1275, excuse me I should back up, Park Town's bid was $27,040. The Public Works Department would recommend that these contracts be awarded to the two low bidders, Park Town construction At $27,040 for the waste water treatment plan work and Hukill's fine grading for $1275 to seal coat and restripe the City Hall parking lot on East Broadway. Corrie: Entertain a motion. Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I would move that we award the bid for the road rebuild to Park Town Construction in the amount of $27,040 and that the seal coat for the City parking lot to Hukill's Fine Grading in the amount of $1,275. Rountree: Second Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Morrow, second by Mr. Rountree to approve the Park Town Construction and Hukill's Fine Grading in the amounts stated, all those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea Bentley: Mr. Mayor, while we are in the paving mood, I have talked to Mrs. Nanni over at Paisano's and she has to talk to her other two partners but she is still interested in helping contribute on the paving of that City owned lot we have over there on Pine. So she is supposed to get back to me shortly. Smith: Thank you Mr. Mayor and Council, the last item I have concerns the Locust Grove Road name change. Do you all have this information in your packet, there is a letter of explanation and a small map. This comes about because of the platting of Railside Park Subdivision and also because of the development work that is being constructed or the first phase of which is being constructed on the south side of the railroad on the east side of what is now called Locust Grove Road. That piece of Locust Grove road has always been a dog leg in the overall alignment of Locust Grove. With the platting of Railside Park it seemed logical to continue the name Locust Grove Road southward along the east boundary of Railside. Of course it is logical to continue and provisions are being made to continue Locust Grove Road through the Tamura Berry park on the south side of the railroad tracks. Which will ultimately line up with Locust Grove on the south side of Franklin Road. So, with the platting of Railside Park a name Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 51 had to be shown on that extension of Locust Grove and it seemed appropriate to me to name is Locust Grove. When we do that then we have to do something with that piece of Locust Grove Road that is off set. So Ada County street name committee can make that change but they need concurrence from City Council of Meridian to do that. There are three businesses on Locust Grove Road, three addresses on Locust Grove Road right now that would be affected by this change. They are all three south of the railroad track I believe. Cope Auto, and I think there are two residences. Although Cope takes their access off of Lanark, I believe they have a Locust Grove address. Then John Anderson our Nampa Meridian guy lives south of Cope and he has a Locust Grove address. Corrie: Gary, that Railside Park on the west side it says North Locust Grove Road would that be called Locust Grove Road rather than North Locust Grove Road? Smith: Franklin Road is the zero line north and so it would be North Locust Grove Road. Corrie: Okay Smith: Locust Grove Road along Railside Park is not going to be constructed as part of the subdivision. They are being required to road trust funds for I guess half of that roadway I think is what it is for future construction. They also will deposit half of the cost of construction of a water line in Locust Grove Road when it is constructed. I don't believe the Tamura Berry is constructing their piece of Locust Grove either. But the problem had to do with platting of Railside Park and the naming of the street. It didn't seem to me to be very logical to name it something other than Locust Grove. Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I would move that we forward to Ada County Street Name Committee a letter of our desire to have the existing Locust Grove Road renamed to some other appropriate name and Locust Grove attached to the soon to be proper aligned or realignment of Locust Grove Road. Rountree: Second Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Morrow, second by Mr. Rountree for the motion as stated, discussion? Bentley: Mr. Mayor, I have some, is this the same committee that hands out the street numbers? Smith: No, we do the numbering for the lots here. Bentley: You do the numbering here, we need to make sure that you don't use the duplicate numbers for the three buildings that are already on the old Locust Grove onto the new Locust Grove, it sure plays hell with the map, don't duplicate them. Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 52 Smith: The old Locust Grove will have a new name. Bentley: It will have a new name but it will still have the same numbers and the mail will still come addressed to Locust Grove for at least 18 months. If you have then (inaudible) so if you can give them different numbers it really helps. Smith: We can do that. Corrie: Any further discussion? All those in favor? Opposed? Smith: That is all I have, who was going to right that letter? Corrie: You are, it is more logical, I would be happy to sign it. Chief? Gordon: A couple of quick items. Our detectives arrested the armed robber from the Maverick Store Monday morning, he was a heroine addict out of Nampa who was over here and after he was picked up he decided his supplier here was the one that turned him in so he turned in his supplier to us. So the dog is sitting down there just waiting for somebody to leave and we will do a check on him. Speaking of the drug dog first 60 days of operation she has been responsible for 9 felony arrests and removed drugs off the street of a street value of $12,000. So she is earning her keep. The new cars are in and I have two used Chevy Caprice's, I mentioned that to Will today. So if there is a need for one or both of them somewhere else in the City. Mechanically they are as sound as you can have them for $93,000 miles on them. We took good care of them, but they go pretty fast is the only problem. These are some of the high performance engines so (inaudible). Once they are moved to another department they are not my responsibility and they still go fast. The radio communications or Meridian Communications center is moving right along. We have a room established down at the police department and I did give up the conference room and moved the lieutenants over. We should have the equipment all in place by the end of next month and we will be ready to go 24 hours with the except of personnel. That brings up the antenna lease, I would like to get a yea or nay on that antenna with AT&T if we can do it, come to some type of agreement or something. We did get the master lease, does everybody have a copy of that the lease agreements. Council, any problems with it? Morrow: I have no problem with the lease subject to counselors working out their issues which are as I interpreted about a page and a half of issues that needed to resolved from their standpoint. Gordon: AT&T won't change that lease, that is a standard lease that they use on all antennas and they are not going to change it. This is basically a donation, but they have got to cover their tails and most of that lease does not pertain to us. Crookston: Most of the base lease or our lease? Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 53 Gordon: The one that they want us to sign. The base lease governs them. Crookston: it also governs us. But on the basis of financial reward or award I can't see an objection to a lease. That needs to be pointed out to the Council and the Council may be made aware of it and it is up to the Council as to whether you want to enter into the lease or not. Bentley: The only question, what I wanted to say was concerning, we also, Chief has also passed out estimates on building our own tower. It comes up to about $10,250 without equipment and without ground. I have discussed with some of the people before that I think we are going to have to take control of these towers in the town so we don't have them all over the place, that is something we are going to have to address through an ordinance I expect. If we can piggy back some of this stuff we can get 100 foot up on their tower and we have got a 30 day notice to terminate that lease and we are only getting it for $1200. 1 think that is a pretty good deal because we don't have the liability with it. Gordon: 150 is what they will let us (inaudible). Bentley: I would like to hear what the other Councilman have to say on that. Rountree: I don't have a problem with it, I think it is a reasonable price for the service. I am not sure that I understand the difficulty with the lease that the counselor has. Corrie: I believe Chief that there are other cities that do this and have this and there haven't been any problems, it is really a courtesy to the City. Gordon: It is and he, the representative from AT&T explained it to me that they needed the signed agreement so that we wouldn't go in there and start tearing things up. And basically that is what it limits us to. Now, in support of Council, I understand some of his concerns but from lay standpoint and I believe that contract is addressed from a lay standpoint and I understand why AT&T requires that. They don't vary, that is their standard contract for all lease agreements on their towers. Once it is signed, I guess we are accountable for everything and anything on that agreement. We, the Council and I had talked about maybe a letter of understanding or memorandum of agreement if you will as to how we interpret that contract or how Council does. On the other hand I don't see a problem with the contract. Corrie: They do the maintenance and they put the antenna up themselves so it is all on their tower? Gordon: Yes, they are required to do all maintenance, anything that happens to it, any of the lights go out, anybody interferes with it they are required to correct it, unless of course it is us causing the interference. Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 54 Morrow: Mr. Mayor, question for counselor, in terms of your document, I know you talked about interference and definition of (inaudible) can you (inaudible) talk about your reservations there and are the reservations of such nature that (inaudible) not viable for us to enter into the lease? Crookston: I think that first of all that the Council can enter into a lease if they desire to enter into it. All I am doing is giving a legal opinion that I have to say is not totally or adamantly against the lease. There are just some problems with the language in the lease. The interference, it says we have liability if we create the interference but it doesn't say what interference is. There are just some language errors or needs in the lease. Morrow: Well I guess worst case scenario if you are going to create interference (inaudible) 30 days to get out of the lease and that solves the problem. The issue is you have to do it someplace else (inaudible). Gordon: From a layman's standpoint my interpretation of interference when you are talking about radio equipment is we can put antennas up there and change the volume or frequency and screw up their entire antenna and everything that is put out there. That is the way I interpret interference is if we put anything on that antenna that interferes with theirs then we will change our frequencies or our output and that is the way I interpret the interference. Morrow: Do we know what those issues might be to begin with? Gordon: They won't be anywhere near our bands no sir. I say near our bands, we have got one problem in town and it is with Surge down here across the tracks. They are legal according to Federal Communications but every time our cars get within a block of surge and their radios are on it locks up the scan of all of our cars. That would be if we put ours up on their antenna I am sure they are going to check all of their frequencies and all of their cell phones and have us do different checks with them. If it interferes in anyway we will change at that time. But our frequency shouldn't be even close to those cell phone frequencies. That is why they want to keep us down to 150 feet also because (inaudible). As long as you maintain that separation even with same bands and frequencies you shouldn't have an interference level. (Inaudible) Gordon: I am not sure, Councilman. (Inaudible) Corrie: One of the things, the benefit here too is of course being able to have officer safety because there are some dead areas in this City that you can't get to. Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 55 Bentley: Mr. Mayor, I make a motion that we sign into the lease agreement with US West. Rountree: Second Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bentley, second by Mr. Rountree that we go into the lease with AT&T Wireless on the tower, all those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea Corrie: Shari? Stiles: I have nothing. Corrie: Mr. Crookston? Crookston: Yes, I would like to bring up the proposed resolution #165 that is LID for the Cherry Lane Village for the fence improvement. The resolution basically sets forth that the City will have a public hearing on it which will be held at the next Council meeting on February 18th. I put it at 7:00, 1 have no idea whether or not we will have a large input or no input or whatever. So that could create somewhat of a problem if we had a whole lot of people, but I don't know if we will. We need to pass the resolution and then we will have the notice of hearing published. It will be published on two Fridays, the first publication has to be ten days prior to the hearing which is on the 18th so we need to get it done if that is the desire of the Council. Morrow: I would move that we adopt the Resolution #165 authorizing the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to attest. Rountree: Second Corrie: Motion made and second to adopt Resolution #165, any further discussion? Hearing none all those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea Corrie: Mr. Crookston you said was 7:00, 1 didn't see anything here that says 7:00 but read it kind of hurriedly, 7:00 it is. Anything else Counselor? Crookston: No, thank you. Corrie: Mr. Morrow? Morrow: Mr. Mayor, the only thing that I have, in our packet tonight Will dropped off a letter from the Idaho State Insurance Fund talking about a rebate for our Workman's Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 56 Comp, I note that amount of that dividend check was $26,399. 1 think a letter to our employees signatured by the Mayor and the Councilmen congratulating them on a job well done in safety is appropriate. I would also like to discuss the concept of maybe with this $26,399 that it might not be appropriate but fair to give each one of them a $25 or $30 bonus, which basically buys their dinner and says thanks and see what everybody thinks about that. (Inaudible) Morrow: That is open to discussion also I guess. Corrie: Personally, I think this is just coming from a personal standpoint, I think we do the Christmas dinner rather than just a flat $25. If you are going to do something like that I have a little bit of heart burn of giving that type of refund back to the employee. I agree with Mr. Morrow, it is good that they do that and that they have saved us that amount of money but I hope that wouldn't have to be rewarded to be safe. I don't know my next question would be the legality of it from Mr. Crookston, could you give us a little help there? Crookston: I have never addressed this issue before, I would believe that the City has received this refund in the past, I don't know what has been done with it in the past. I think that there is a question as to whether or not these funds could be used for the employees but right now I don't have an opinion of whether it is right or wrong. Morrow: I guess from my perspective the issue is that it is income that has been realized to us as a City and to our taxpayers based on the extra efforts of the employees. It seems to me that it might be fair to buy them a dinner like we buy them a turkey at Christmas and say thanks for the help and press on from there. It doesn't have to be a continual thing, it just seems like without their efforts in that direction we wouldn't get the money back. Rountree: Mr. Mayor, I think my position on incentives has been stated before, I think they are a good idea. I don't know if a bonus or a safety merit is the right answer but I think that without the employees effort whatever this might cost in terms of a token remittance back to the employee the City is still going to benefit for quite a few dollars. If in fact the bonus is not palatable or even legal possibly setting up some kind of a safety program and utilizing some funds from this to award performance and safety for five years of service without an accident, ten years without an accident, 15, 20 and 25. Have give aways if you will, fire extinguishers, emergency blankets, those kinds of things that recognize the employees effort that they can, a kind of badge of achievement as another option. But I think we ought to recognize the employees for doing a good job. Bentley: Mr. Mayor, I would agree with both Charlie and Walt, I think there is some recognition due, I don't have a problem with giving them a monetary award just so we Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 57 are within the legal bounds. I know other organizations that where I work at the post office does it also. Corrie: Like I say I think we need to find out where we stand on the legality of it then we can, if it is legal than you guys hold the purse strings. Berg: I would just like to make a comment, first of all I think I need to check and see how it is with our auditor budgeting something of this nature (inaudible) earmarked more or less a premium for our workers comp. And because of performance in previous years is why we get the dividend. So, I think I need to find out that way, the other thing is after going through some of the safety inspections and finding out a few of things that we need to improve then maybe some of this money should go into those improvements without pouring good money after bad things. That might be another idea because as far as if you have good working conditions you have less accidents. That is just another idea. Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I don't disagree with many of Mr. Berg's observations, it still seems to me that you have $26,000 of unrealized income, if you spend $25 gift certificate for dinner or $25 cash for each employee that amounts to a couple of thousand dollars that leaves $24,000 for safety improvements or other types of things that he is alluding to. And so I think any of that makes good sense. I think the important thing is we recognize the human factor involved here and it never hurts to give a job well done, a pat on the back and that is my purpose in wanting to get something to those folk directly. Corrie: Can we postpone this until the next meeting and let the counselor find out what we can do and (inaudible) go from there. Morrow: I just want to figure out an avenue to get it done. That is the only thing I had Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Counselor if you will do that and get back with us post haste. Mr. Bentley? Bentley: I have a few things, we had this letter from ACHD concerning Central Avenue. They were asking us for a response and whether we wanted them to proceed post haste with extending that island. I know we have had this discussion before they are well aware of what they want to do and extend it down to I can't remember how many feet now, it is somewhere in here. I was just wondering if we want to tell them to go ahead and get it done now before that park gets built out and we have more people complaining about it. Maybe we should notify them. Morrow: I don't have a problem with them pressing on and getting it done. Rountree: They have been talking about it for 2 years, they ought to get it done. Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 58 Bentley: One other thing I wanted to address the Council on. We have been having trouble with the City credit cards. Every time the police have gone out a couple of times out of town they get down to wherever it is they are going and find out the cards aren't any good due to lack of payment. What I would like to suggest would be that since the police has the highest budget for their training and stuff I would like to see them get their own set of cards with a $5000 limit on each one and that they be assigned to the Chief and then he can check them out. If there is a problem with the auditing end of it that he be responsible for the budget end of it. Then they can continue using the other cards that they have through the City and will can issue them out as you have been doing. Rountree: I guess I am a little uneasy with that being a check out for them being issued to the Chief. There are other avenues with credit cards and I know American Express has a corporate card that can be issued to the employee and they are responsible for their bill on a monthly basis. The employee submits an expense account and gets the expense account check and pays the American express card. That takes the potential for misuse away and puts it on the responsibility of the employee. It is essentially no cost to them if they pay their bill on a monthly basis. If they want to charge other things that they don't get reimbursed for travel then that is their business, but I would prefer to go that way and encourage the employees that do travel to look into that. And maybe the City help them in that avenue. Corrie: Is there some way the City backs this up (inaudible). Rountree: No, it is just a corporate card and I believe it is sponsored but there is no liability. So if he is sponsored by the City of Meridian the card would be issued to them according to (inaudible) Rountree: The card is issued to the individual employee. Bentley: Would we be issuing cards to each officer or each person? What I am getting at is you may not have the same person going out of town all of the time. Rountree: Each person can have their own card it is their card, it is just like your master card, but it is a way to dedicate their credit for travel. They submit an expense voucher and get paid and they pay their credit card. Gordon: Up until recently that is the way we have been doing it is everybody using their own credit card, but some people don't have credit cards. Plus, I am opposed to using personal expenses to do City business. This is the first agency that I have worked with in 27 years where there weren't cards issued to department heads. The misuse and I don't understand the paranoia here with misuse of these cards. The card only goes out for specific items. It comes right back, the misuse is immediate, the card is turned in and the receipts are turned in with it. The expenses are paid for on a monthly basis that way. The cards don't float, they are in nobody's wallet, they only go out for specific Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 59 items. I have got guys that don't ever go out of town and then I have other people that go out on a pretty regular basis. I do exactly what you are saying, I use my personal card, I am not about to get caught in Jacksonhole or Las Vegas that you can't charge anything to. Those guys down there could not use, they couldn't charge the rooms, and they wouldn't charge food to them on the City card. So they consequently went back to their own personal cards. I still think it is the City's responsibility if we send them out of town that we provide the expenses for them. Rountree: I disagree with that. Gordon: I have never been anywhere that has been a problem. Rountree: Work for the State of Idaho Morrow: My question here would be is what is the problem with the City credit cards, why won't somebody honor them? Gordon: Well, the first problem, in fact the problem has been all the way along is they are either maxed out or the payments weren't made. This last trip in Las Vegas the credit card company said there wasn't a payment from last November, the cards weren't maxed out but no payments were made. Rountree: So cards to everybody is going to solve that. Gordon: No, not cards to everybody. Rountree: Well multiple cards to each department head is going to solve that? Gordon: Not multiple cards, I need two cards and that is it. Every time a card goes out I keep a book on that card. When he brings the receipts in I know exactly how much is spent, I do a purchase order every month just like I pay all of my bills, it comes down it is a separate purchase order. I know how much is charged and I know when the bills are paid on it. Corrie: What we have Council is we have 5 visa cards, what could be done if you don't want to change anything other than the two cards like card one and card two would be issued to the Chief of Police. Card three, four and five would be staying here at City Hall. Card one and two would have a total of, right now there is a total of $10,000 on the five cards, $2000 per card. I have instructed Janice now that all credit card bills are paid each month. Then we are getting a read out and that has been a problem that they have been trying to put them together with PO's and it gets behind and there are some other things that have been involved here and we are straightening those things out. But under the circumstances of this you keep the card system we have, you can issue those two cards to the police department, card one and two. He is responsible for that, it is his budget and then he has to still make the recommendation or excuse me Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 60 the PO's back to the City but those cards are paid for and so is 3, 4 and 5 every month. There is a new system that is going into effect as a matter of fact right now. I guess it is a matter of if you use the same system you have now rather than him checking out a card each time somebody comes in that card 1 and 2 is checked to the police department alone. He is responsible for it, he is the department head, he spends over his limit it is his that gets cut off at $2000 but he also gets those cards paid every month and comes in when they are supposed to. When we are dealing them out one at a time like that I think is fine but it is a problem for him and he is assigned those two cards and they make the payments. Those cards are going to be paid monthly now, they have not been I have to say. Gordon: I am responsible to you folks and you have me with almost a $2 million budget that you just give to me. I spend to, I am getting ready to spend $60,000 on cars, we are talking hundreds of thousands of dollars you think I am going to jeopardize or allow anybody that works for me to mess with $2500 credit (End of Tape) Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I have to kind of disagree with some of this, we went through the issue here before and it is a point of control. Obviously if the credit cards are not getting paid and that is the root cause of the problem then we are not getting our job done right with respect to getting them paid. I am not convinced that a PO system and the card being vested in the department heads hands is going to solve that portion, that is an administrative problem that we need to resolve there. My preference quite candidly in terms of those credit cards is the system that we have where the credit cards are checked out. Currently by motion of or by action of the Council the system is the credit cards are kept by the City Clerk, they are issued by the City Clerk for expenses and then they are returned to the City Clerk. It is a means of control. I think the system works fine, I can certainly understand if we are not paying the bill why the cards don't work. I can't see that issuing them to department heads is going to solve that problem any. I think we need to address the problem where it is at now. Two things are bad about it, one is it is tough on the credit card credit rating of the City and secondly is we are paying interest and that shouldn't apply to any bill for any purpose whether it is cars or meals or whatever. But I have a problem from my standpoint in terms of we have a system in place here that is working except it is not working from the standpoint of payment. If the payment is done correctly then the system works. Gordon: But this is not a unique situation, this has happened 3 separate times over a two year period. Morrow: Well the issue is then it is to us as a Council to take the corrective action and say whoever is making this not work needs to make it work and that is part of sound fiscal policy or sound fiscal management. I don't think that you tamper with the concept that works simply because the folk aren't making it work, you make the folk make it work. Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 61 Gordon: That is what I am saying is the process doesn't work but if you give it to me I will make sure it works. Morrow: (Inaudible) lose total control. What I am suggesting to you is let's give the system a chance to work now the way that it was designed and do some follow up and some management to make sure that it works. Obviously from our standpoint as a Council we haven't been doing our audit procedure very well to make sure the system is working and bills getting paid. And so the responsibility for it not working is our fault. Now that we know that it doesn't work or hasn't been working properly it is up to us to go to the sources and say okay this is what in fact you will do. Gordon: What I am saying is the problem is not I the field but the ones in the field are the ones that are taking it in the shorts. Morrow: I don't disagree with what you are saying. (Inaudible) we will make sure that it works at the administrative level where it is supposed to be, the problem is not in the field. Gordon: It kind of gets back to I can solve the problem real quick. Morrow: We have to solve the problem on a city wide basis because we can have every department head coming up here with the same solution, the same scenario and then we get back into a situation where we are totally out of control of keeping track of that. Gordon: There is where I don't understand that paranoia being out of control. We are only talking about a credit card for $2500 credit, I have more than that on my signature. Morrow: In terms of PO's that is correct. Gordon: With everything, you guys trust me and I appreciate the trust don't misunderstand me, but I fail to understand where you think I am going to jeopardize or I am going to allow one of my guys to jeopardize anything over a couple of hundred stinking dollar charge. It would be so much easier if I could keep track of the amounts that they were spending and pay the cards, issue them out and take them back. Morrow: Somebody ought to be keeping track (inaudible) that ought to be going on as we speak. Gordon: It is. Morrow: Who is doing it now? Gordon: I am, if they go out of town if the card is usable which in the last two times it hasn't been, so they come back with two vouchers one for a couple of city charges, one for a couple of personal charges and one for a couple of cash charges. So the auditing Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 62 is being done by me and the City is issuing two checks one for their card and one for the City card, it is a mess, but I am keeping track of the money. Corrie: Let's try this Bill, we are on track now. In other words card 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 is paid for. They are open and good for $2000 a card. If you have 3 people going to classes check out 3 separate cards, one for each one, and you can keep track of those 1, 2, and 3. It sounds like they are not in consensus to give the cards to the departments heads at this point. So you have card 1, 2 or however many people you have. They use those cards and they come back, I guarantee you they will be able to use those cards. Bentley: Mr. Mayor, I have a question, each card is worth $2000 correct, do we have any mechanism in place to know that card one was just used and umpteen dollars were just spent on it before it is sent out on a trip that is too expensive and this trip put on puts it over the max do we have anyway of checking that? Do you understand what I am saying. Corrie: All we can do is call them and ask them what is put on the card right now. Morrow: The other thing is when they return them they ought to be returning their receipts or (inaudible) Bentley: But I am saying if he has a long distance trip on board that is going to cost $600 to $700 and somebody had just got back with that card and they spent $1400 they are already going to be maxed when they get there. Corrie: They don't get the same card. Bentley: That is what I am asking is there any way to watch that? Corrie: I think that can be done, again, not taking anything away from Will but I think we need to have the card where the people are making the phone calls. If Will wants to make the cards, he wants to do the cards he has to know exactly how much is on those cards. So if card 1, 2 and 3 have been out or 1 and 2 is out and 3 and 4 hasn't been out and he knows that or whoever takes charge of these cards knows that he calls at that particular point in time. He knows what is out there. I think that is the way we are going to have to do it for awhile here, knowing the consensus of what is happening here. Rountree: I think I kind of now understand what is going on, but I don't understand what the original intent of the previous Council was. My only concern is not fiscal misuse my concern is how many cards are out there. The current situation is that the City Clerk gets the cards and checks them out. There is no stipulation that you can't check the cards out for a year or a budget cycle. So why doesn't the City Clerk then be the person responsible for acquisition of credit cards. He checks them out to various departments Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 63 for a budget cycle. The departments who want to utilize that take care of the tracking and the payments simplifying the budgeting, the payment process. You are responsible in your budget to budget for it and take care of it. You provide him, us as an audit function of what the activities are on those cards on an annual basis that is still not yours if a department head needs one and go to the City Clerk and at least we have an inventory of five, 10, 25 cards out there. To me that is the only issue is just keeping some kind of an inventory of where these things are. Gordon: That is what I am asking for, you can have the inventory with anybody you want, but I will keep track of the cards on a by use basis so they won't be (inaudible). Rountree: So you will get them clean and keep them clean. Gordon: But if we are going to leave them with the Clerk than I would like a phone number every time we draw a card I want to call and find out if the card is good before these guys ever leave town and what the amount is on that card. We are back down to spinning our wheels. What I am trying to do is, he has the responsibility for those and the Council goes on a couple of trips and I go on a couple of trips or the department does I am not sure we know how much is on every card unless we call down and check with them. Morrow: I would say that is the responsibility of the person (inaudible) it is his responsibility to get you a clean card. (Inaudible) and away they go and it is his responsibility to see that happens. Gordon: That is where I disagree. Corrie: You would like to think about it for two weeks? Morrow: Well I would like to think about it for a long time but (inaudible). Corrie: That is being taken care of posthaste (inaudible). Bentley: I am done Corrie: Mr. Rountree? Rountree: I have nothing. Corrie: Mr. Tolsma? Tolsma: Nothing Corrie: Okay, I guess we go with mine, the appointment to Planning and Zoning Commission. We looked it up, according to the ordinance and law they have to live in Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 64 the County six years and the City limits or area of impact, Mr. Hal Ford does not qualify under that. So, I am going to have to give you another one. Morrow: Can we have a little bit of discussion on this? Corrie: You can discuss it that is fine but I have to give you a recommendation. Morrow: No you don't (inaudible) Corrie: Well I say you don't unless you change the ordinance because I recommend and you approve, you don't recommend and approve. Morrow: I understand that, what I am suggesting is that the provision of the State statute is that if the Council choose and the Mayor hasn't suggested a name within that ten day period the Council has the capability of appointing and approving. What I am suggesting to you is that is not something that I would be supportive of at all here. I think that we in our last strategic planning meeting have some revision coming up and want to bring on board the traffic safety commissioners (Inaudible) within the City. (Inaudible) and so my point is that very shortly we will be in position to advertise for folk wanting to serve on that commission and it makes a certain amount of sense that we advertise perhaps in the statesman to get broader coverage and we advertise for a P & Z person in that same format talking about what the qualification requirements are by statute so we can get a cross section of folk to interview for those positions (inaudible). Point of conversation in terms of this issue. Bentley: Mr. Mayor, haven't you been advertising? Corrie: Yes, an article in the paper and I haven't gone to the Statesman, that was in the Valley News which is the official publication. The only problem I am seeing here is the longer we wait the deeper we get in the hole if one of those commissioners can't be there or if Malcolm goes to Stanford for a liver transplant your Planning and Zoning is shut down. So we need to move somewhere along here on an agreement to put somebody on that board. Now I have got four applicants and three of them aren't qualified by the residency and I have one that is but they are in the building and construction industry which you didn't want in the first place. So there we are. Rountree: Well I don't know, at least this Councilman didn't not want that individual, wanted the opportunity for other individuals to express an interest. At this point, I think that we have made the effort, I agree that Jim is gone, Malcolm is tentative, reviewing the minutes on the approvals of the findings of fact and so forth on Planning and Zoning Greg is gone a considerable amount of time. I agree that we have to do something to get them up and running. I thought the article was good in the Valley News it did generate some interest. Unfortunately nobody has been around town for five years or longer is interested that reads the Valley News. I do have a bit of hesitancy with the building trades being represented again on Planning and Zoning but I think the Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 65 individual is probably qualified and was spoken highly of by the Planning and Zoning Commissioner. So I guess that is where I am just to clarify your comment Bob. Corrie: And I stand corrected, it was two and two. Bentley: Well do we want to wait any longer or do we want to try and reappoint her or try to appoint her, renominate her? Morrow: Well from my perspective I am not going to support another member from the industry on that commission from the standpoint that makes 80% of the Commission building/development, engineer/architect and 80% of our population is not in those occupations. If you are going to have boards and commissions they ought to be representative of the mix of your City. The issue is that we need to make and effort to get some folk on there. Now with respect to the issue with Malcolm we have had some conversations about putting a temporary folk for when somebody is indisposed and there are 3 or 4 former P & Z members that would probably serve in that capacity for a month or two while Malcolm heals up depending on what the time frame is for his need. So, from my perspective I can't support somebody from that, either one of those two industries for that position. Bentley: Mr. Mayor, I would agree, we definitely need the mix if the mix is available. As far as using temporary fill ins I have a little problem with that because whether they are former members or not if they haven't sat in on some previous hearings involving the same issue they are walking into something pretty cold. I can't see somebody on an on call basis somebody coming down here to sit every night because if they are going to sit here every night they would be on the Commission to begin with. Morrow: Glenn, I think in the case of Malcolm let's assume it is a two month absence, if Tim Hepper or Jim Shearer or whoever Corrie: (Inaudible) Morrow: It is a temporary thing Bob, if Moe Alidjani is available, in a situation like that, all of us have to read our minutes anyway and that brings somebody who has had experience up to speed. I think the same issue could be said for any one of us on the Council. If we were going to be off the Council for health reasons and not be able to perform for a couple month period it makes a certain amount of sense for the Council to have the capability to put a fill in on a temporary basis. Corrie: Well I suggest if you have some names give them to me so I can give them to you. We need to get this thing filled. I will make an advertisement also in the Statesman. But when you start picking and choosing like that you are going to cut qualified people out and I don't say I disagree with you about everybody being from on occupation but folks we are going to get ourselves in hot water here. So I would Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 66 suggest that if you have any names that you would like me to recommend give them to me and I will get the letter out and go from there. Morrow: Mr. Mayor if I might, I am sitting here thinking back, a lot of the members that were appointed to the P & Z that I am familiar with were actively recruited by the Council, and Mayor in the past. And so between a letter to the Statesman or an article in the statesman and us looking at the issue I am sure there is somebody there. Crookston: Mr. Mayor, I just had a comment about use of the Statesman and the Valley News. I think because the Valley News is the City's by ordinance it is the City's paper. If you are going to use the Statesman I think that you would have to publish in both papers. Morrow: I am not talking about a public notice I am talking about a news article that is often done in terms of, you see reports on Boise Council meetings or whatever and it says the P & Z is looking for qualified members. (Inaudible) Corrie: Well I suggest you do this posthaste, I am running out of names people. There has to be three of you that agree and I don't know if you will ever get it. Mr. Berg? Berg: Hopefully in your packet you will have a copy of the agreement between hopefully ourselves and Farmers and Merchant State Bank. I will address any questions that you may have but it deals with the automatic clearing house, electronic transactions. Corrie: Do you guys know what this is all about, seriously? Bentley: I don't that was my next question. Berg: What this is all about is an automatic clearing house which automatically processes and deposits moneys into accounts without writing checks or depositing checks or transferring checks. We are hoping to get this on board, should I say it is the electronic age or the computer age, people pay their bills electronically without writing a check. We are hoping to do payroll electronically, have it in people's accounts the morning of the day of payday rather than getting it in the afternoon. The checks and balances are still the same. What is does do is save us time in labor of signing all the checks and processing all the checks and getting it to all of the department heads to hand out all of the checks. The other thing is it is quicker for the employees to get their money in their account. Obviously you are not going to have everybody sold on the idea of doing that so you will have a few people that will get their checks. But, in order for them to do this we have to go into an agreement with Farmers and Merchant to provide this process. They have federal regulations that they have to comply with and this is one of them is to go into this agreement. Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 67 Morrow: Does that mean that the employee has to have an account at Farmers and Merchant? Berg: No it does not Corrie: Wherever their account is, this also can eventually lead into if people want to pay their water bill and sewer bill and things like that on a check basis when it comes it is automatically taken out of their account and they get a receipt for it. That is just another way of Berg: One of the ideas is when we have these people that go south for the winter time that they don't have to write a check, that the utility bill will come automatically out of their account. Morrow: Mr. Mayor I would move that we authorize the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to attest the agreement that we approve with Farmers and Merchant State Bank for the automatic clearing house provision. Rountree: Second Corrie: Motion made and second, all those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea Berg: Thank you very much for your cooperation. Bentley: Motion to adjourn. Rountree: Second Corrie: Motion made and seconded, all those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea MEETING ADJOURNED AT 12:20 A.M. (TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) APPROVED: ROBERT D. CORRIE, MAYOR Meridian City Council February 4, 1997 Page 68 ATTEST: WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., CITY CLERK