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HomeMy WebLinkAbout99May11 P&Z MinsMeridian Planning and Zoning Commission May 11, 1999 Page 12 MacCoy: Let me ask the attorney about this one because the letter we received is that they're pulling it off entirely. Rossman: They're withdrawing their application in its entirety? MacCoy: Well they're certainly entitled to do that. I don't think it's appropriate to continue it. It's just a - MacCoy: I don't either. Borup: Wasn't that the motion to withdraw it? De Weerd: Yes. Rossman: Just to withdraw it in its entirety and it won't be brought back before the Commission. MacCoy: No, it won't come back, so it's a continued public hearing and they're asking that they -what they're telling us they're solved their problem. They don't need the thing to go on. De Weerd: Right, so I moved to withdraw. MacCoy: Second on that. Borup: Second. MacCoy: All in favor. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. MacCoy: I'm going to stop here for a moment . I want to ask the question from the audience. We have a full house here. How many of you are here item 15? I suggest that at this moment in time we move item number 15 forward to the next slot so you people can get a chance to get this completed and go home. Otherwise you'll be here until at least 10:30 tonight. Some of you people are standing up. I don'# think you want to stand that long. 15. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A CONDITIQNAL USE PERMIT FOR A GOLF COURSE CLUBHOUSE, PARKING LOT AND TEMPORARY CLUBHOUSE BY CHERRY LANE RECREATION INC-4200 TALAMORE BLVD: Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission May 11, 1999 Page 13 MacCoy: Staff what do you have to say about that? Stiles: Chairman MacCoy, Commissioners, we have reviewed the application that was submitted. This permit application was required because of the fact that a clubhouse is not a permitted use in the zone. In fact the golf course is not a permitted use in the zone .There was temporary conditional use permit granted for the modular home back in 1982. Apparently the conditions for the future site have just become ready for them to have access to it and have the sewer and water. Those areas are just now being platted. They apparently do have sewer and water to the site at this time. But though the application itself doesn't indicate the temporary building, it doesn't indicate anywhere in the narrative that they're requesting a temporary building. It is shown on the site plan, and so if there was any misunderstanding by any of the people out here that may have reviewed the application and only looked at the written portion of it. It would have been confusing to you, but that's basically where we stand. We have made comments as far as our recommendations for some modifications to the site, and I'm sure you'll hear lots of other testimony here tonight about what they would like to see in their neighborhood. MacCoy: Thank you. Bruce, do you have anything? Okay, is the applicant here? Oh, great. All right, we'll start off the other way then. Not having an applicant present, all those who would like to speak in favor of the request, you can come one at a time forward. JAMES A. YOST 2638 N. SEA COVE, MERIDIAN, IDAHO Yost: My name is James C. Yost. I live at 2638 N. Sea Cove. I would like to speak in support of the operation of the permit to allow them to move their temporary clubhouse to the construction site of the new clubhouse and then we can get the new clubhouse constructed and then the temporary clubhouse can be removed and we'll have us a new clubhouse and we'll finally have everything where it belongs having a Cherry Lane Golf Course. I know that it's been difficult for some folks out there. I think the traffic situation will be much better with the access coming in to the golf course and a parking lot that's paved and more functional. If it comes in from Black Cat Road. Right now Interlachen is about the only way to get in there. I think the traffic will be much easier on everyone once we get that new parking lot built over there. I think it's something that needs to be done and I know there's been a lot of struggle with getting power to the site, working with the irrigation districts, working with the power companies, the gas companies and everyone. I think we're finally in a stage to do that. I recommend that you support this and allow the operator to get on with finishing up that facility. It will be asset not only to the community that we live in there, but to the entire City of Meridian. I think it will be something that we can be proud of. It will generate revenue to the city and those of us that constructed in the area waited a long time for an 18 hole golf course to be constructed. We waited a long time to move out of that temporary facility where it is, Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission May 11, 1999 Page 14 and we're anxious to get a new facility constructed and do away with the temporary things and get back to a permanent life there. Thank you. MacCoy: All right, stay right there a moment. Commissioners, do you have any questions of him? De Weerd: I have none. Borup: None. MacCoy: Okay, thank you very much. Anyone else who would like to speak in favor or support of this applicant? Okay, let me turn it around the other way. Anybody here that would like to speak in the other direction? Yes, go ahead. MIKE KESLER 3450 W. WOODMONT DRIVE, MERIDIAN Kesler: My name is Mike Kesler. I live at 3450 W. Woodmont Drive, and I'm opposed to the temporary structure. I'm certainly not opposed to a permanent structure on the new site. I first looked at Cherry Lane Village 11 years ago, and oh you bet. There's going to be a permanent facility there. It's going to be there just a few years. Well it was placed in '82 by this P & Z Commission and is still there and it's going to get moved again and it may be there for the next 15 years. So maybe whoever buys my house will have the same cherishable rights that I've had just dreaming about a new clubhouse. If it is moved, I think there should be some very strict requirements that is replaced within "x" months. I certainly wouldn't go out years. It only takes about two hundred days to build the clubhouse. If they can build a house in 120 days, I'm sure they can build a clubhouse in 200. So I'm opposed to moving a temporary facility. I suggest that the person that individuals or company that has the use of that the rights of that golf course proceed with a permanent clubhouse to match the rest of the zoning in that area, which his permanent. We do not allow movable residences in the areas. So why should we have a movable clubhouse? MacCoy: Good point. Borup: Mr. Chairman, I have a question. Sir, then are you proposing to leave the temporary trailer where it's at until the new clubhouse is built or close down the golf course? Kesler: I don't know when they have to have that build by. Borup: I'm not sure, but they need to operate out of something. What's your proposal besides - I understand what you're saying. Let's not have another temporary thing there for going on forever, and that makes - Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission May 11, 1999 Page 15 Kesler: There is a temporary you know to meet other - I can't understand why the planning was done for the other plat before this was done. I guess I could ask that question, Mr. Borup. Meaning it's kind of the cart before the horse. It's almost like the residents out there you know you're dog gone if you do and dog gone if you don't. Borup: Well no that's what I'm trying to figure out is what do you see as the ideal solution to keep the course operating while the new building is being built? Kesler: Certainly and I think the thing is that there is a restriction of no more than so many days and certainly less than a year to have normal construction done. We're coming up on the prime construction months as you well know. MacCoy: We don't disagree with that, but we've understood that I'm going to have the applicant has been called. He'll be here quickly that Steiner Corporation which owns that property has asked them to be moved out as of the last of April and now we're into May already and we're living or they're living on a borrowed time situation. That's the reason the temporary situation has come up to light because now - Kesler: How long ago was the occupant notified that he had to move? MacCoy: I'm not sure. I'm not sure of the details. I was hoping that they would have somebody here that can answer that question because I hear various things. Kesler: It's a good way to chase the commission. MacCoy: Well we look at it as this is a new commission compared to what the date on this thing is because they've had this thing in operation 17 years, and we're wondering come it took them this long to wake up the fact that they had to get moved, so we had our problems too. Kesler: Right. MacCoy: Okay we'll get some answers. Thank you. Barbeiro: Mr. Kesler, I had a question for you. So that I can clarify your opinion, you do not object to the moving of the temporary clubhouse to its new location on the premise that a permanent be in place within one year. Kesler: Less than one year. Barbeiro: Okay thank you. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission May 11, 1999 Page 16 MacCoy: I understand now my message that the applicant is here. Will he come forward? He or she, I don't know who is going to speak. Is Wally here? WALLY LOVAN LESSEE OF CHERRY LANE GOLF COURSE, MERIDIAN Lovan: I would like to try to answer the question someone has. I came here this evening to ask for a temporary permit to move the clubhouse existing clubhouse to get our parking lot going. That is the number one thing to move the clubhouse. We have to have the parking lot done and to also start construction of the new clubhouse. I would like to have Mr. Dick Brown be my speaker. He knows all these things. He's been working with me for almost a year now. He is a surveyor and has a company that does some of the engineering for him so he's very, very knowledgeable of the technical things that you people might waht to ask. I'd be most happy to try to answer any questions that anyone has now. De Weerd: Mr. Chairman, I guess I would just have a question as far as what is your time frame? Lovan: My time frame right now here the first of March, I had all my subcontractors already lined up. Borup: Have you applied for a permit? It looks like you got a full set of construction plans. Have you applied for the building permit yet? Lovan: Yes. De Weerd: No, I just wanted to know the time frame when you think construction will be completed. Lovan: I would say within four months of the date of starting. De Weerd: And that's the parking lot 2nd the building itself? Lovan: Yes. De Weerd: Okay, that's the only question I had. MacCoy: Okay, Mr. Lovan just to clarify in my mind here, I have read some material and I have heard about some of this where you presently have your trailer, Steiner wants that land back and he indicated that he had given you an eviction notice the end of April. Lovan: Yes. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission May 11, 1999 Page 17 MacCoy: And you're living on borrowed time now. Lovan: I am. MacCoy: Is he willing to let you sit there a little longer because I hate to move a temporary unit. I'd like to see you build the new unit where it is and we don't have to fiddle with the temporary unit. Lovan: I would prefer not to move the unit. I'm not sure that he would wait as long as another four months or so. MacCoy: He wants that land back I guess to build on is what he's talking about. Lovan: He has already started part of the construction. MacCoy: Oh, he has. Lovan: He's constructing the roadways now. MacCoy: I've seen equipment out there. I was wondering what was going on. So the reason you're asking to move your temporary operation is because the very fact that he wants you out of there and otherwise you would be preferred to stay where you are until you finish your final building, right? Lovan: Yes. MacCoy: Okay, I just wanted a clarification. Lovan: One of the reason the clubhouse itself is now sixteen, seventeen years old, but it is wired so that we can do our rental carts, and all we have to do is move it and have it hooked up and we can service in all our rental carts. We have 52 rental carts now. MacCoy: We're working to actually a legal case here from the standpoint that you're going to have to move it because of the owner of the property says you must be off of it. Lovan: Yes. MacCoy: So that's the reason the board will have to look at making a temporary change to a permanent, change. Okay, can Mr. Brown come forward? Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission May 11, 1999 Page 18 Borup: Mr. Chairman, maybe I'd like to just reiterate maybe what Mr. Lovan has said. At this point, your application, your building permit is applied for. Is it ready? Have they approved it yet or are they still reviewing? Lovan: I really don't know. Borup: But it's in the process? So it's your intention then would be to start construction as soon as you have approval from the city to begin? Lovan: Yes. My number one thing is to get the parking lot done, and we have all the plans in. We have the - Borup: You need that done to even use the temporary building. Lovan: Yes, right. Borup: And then as soon as the city has approval on the plans and the building permit received then you're ready to start immediately on construction. Lovan: Right. 6orup: I think that probably would answer a lot of their concerns that other people here have. Lovan: I guarantee you that as soon as we get the new clubhouse open that we will get rid of that mobile home. MacCoy: Commissioner Borup, we have a staff comment coming up here. Borup: Okay, I think that is all the questions I had. Stiles: I just wanted to clarify for you no building permit has been submitted for anything on this project. The plans we got the revised plans that you got in your packets which are dated May 1999 we got Friday. So this has not gone -they would need to have a certificate of zoning compliance before they could start processing the building permit application, and they can't get a certificate of zoning compliance unless they receive a conditional use permit and #hey comply with those conditions. Borup: So you're saying they can't even turn it in until it gets through this process? Stiles: Right. Borup: Okay. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission May 11, 1999 Page 19 Stiles: Once it gets through your possibly once it gets through Planning and Zoning Department, it goes to City Council prior to findings. There's a possibility that they may consider starting to process it based on all of the conditions of approval but we don't know what those conditions are right now so we can't issue a certificate of zoning compliance. Borup: That makes sense. So you're saying if everything looks good, they could maybe start on the parking lot. Perhaps not the building, but get the parking lot going. Stiles: Well at least once they get through at least through the council at their public hearing. Borup: Right, okay. Stiles: Which normally we would wait clear until the findings were done and approved so that would save them some time. Borup: So the faster this gets approved, the faster they can start building. De Weerd: Shari, does that mean probably July until it gets through the process? MacCoy: It's hard to tell. Stiles: It could be June or possibly the first meeting in July. De Weerd: Okay. MacCoy: All right, can we have Mr. Brown come forward please. Lovan: I would like to ask one question. If we cannot get this done and Mr. Steiner gives us an eviction notice, what do we do then? How do we operate the golf course? MacCoy: Well that's what we're trying to work out for you from our side here, so we're not disagreeing with you. We're trying to get the job done for you in the proper format. DICK JOHNSON Johnson: My name is Dick Johnson. Dr. Brown is my golf partner. My address is 9225 Chinden Boulevard and I can try to answer any questions you might have or we can go through the conditional use permit whichever you wish. MacCoy: The items that -you've received the staff s comments? Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission May 11, 1999 Page 20 Johnson: Yes, we have. MacCoy: Okay, all right let's start with those. Johnson: On the CU comments themselves, we have no problems with items 1 and 2. Item number three, the sewer and water, if I may put my glasses on here. No utilities are shown on the site plans and how the temporary structure will be serviced (End of Tape) Johnson:... permitted, installed, inspected and all approved prior to this meeting. It happened about three months ago that we put in the utilities for the temporary clubhouse structure. The gas, power and telephone are not in place. They are pending the power company's time table. The telephone company has said they would put in a temporary phone for us. Item number four we have no problem with. Item number five as far as signage, there is a sign proposed on the drawing. It's a 4 x 8 redwood sign. It is out of the site area for the traffic. there again it would be four foot high. A request will be made for a future sign at the intersection of Talamore at Black Cat Road which we anticipate to be a stone an engraved stone set in the median there if we can get that approved. There's an existing sign on Cherry Lane indicating where the present clubhouse is. We would like to leave that in place for sixty days. That would give us time to notify the public that the clubhouse has been moved. And drainage plans for item number six are complete and ready to be submitted. We're just holding under the outcome of this meeting. MacCoy: I'm looking for a diagram of the sign. Johnson: Oh you want to see a picture of the sign? MacCoy: Yes. We need that to take a look to see what you're going to say. Johnson: Yeah, it just say Cherry Lane Golf Course. MacCoy: We have to know how big and what it looks like and so on. Johnson: Okay. MacCoy: Go on. Johnson: That was under conditional use comments for general requirements. There again for items number one, irrigation ditches what have you, we agree with that. Item number two domestic wells, we agree with that. It's not applicable for this project. Number three the off street parking will be provided in accordance with the local Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission May 11, 1999 Page 21 ordinances. We concur with that. The parking lot, landscaping, lighting, drainage, traffic flow, what have you are all designed and ready for submittal. Items 4, paving and striping, we agree with that. That is shown on the plans. Borup: Mr. Johnson, I don't want to interrupt you, but at least for my benefit, I would rather you just went through and mentioned items that you maybe didn't agree with. Johnson: Items we don't agree with. Borup: Or something you had a concern with because we've read all the others, so if there's any -- Johnson: Site specific, I had one question on the 45 trees required. In a previous conversation with Shari Stiles, we talked about the tree count including the area around the clubhouse lying east of the Eight Mile Lateral, and I wanted to make sure that was still part of the tree count. Stiles: If we can count what is shown on the plan, east the Eight Mile Lateral takes in a lot of territory over there, so - Johnson: No, only within the bounds of the project. The line shown in there, Shari. Stiles: If they meet our requirements for a three inch caliper tree. The spruces would not be included as meeting that requirement. They need to be at least six to eight feet high. No conifers of that size, three inch. Johnson: We have no problems with that. My next question would be with the sidewalk. There's a comment in here about installing number 8, providing 5 foot wide sidewalk in accordance with the city ordinance. This project is already part of the Lakes No. 4 Subdivision and they are required to put in curb, gutter, sidewalk, full street restoration through there. We are prepared to get with them and widen the sidewalk to five feet. That's not a problem. Borup: They should already be five feet. Johnson: Pardon? Borup: Aren't they already five feet? Johnson: The ones on Talamore are. Talamore is constructed. On Harbor Point Drive that is not constructed. The plans were signed February - Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission May 11, 1999 Page 22 Borup: Okay, you're saying that the developer is putting in streets, curb, gutter, sidewalk and you're doing the developing within the site. Is that what you are saying? Johnson: The developer of the Lakes - Borup: Yes, is doing all the roads. Johnson: Yes. Borup: Okay. MacCoy: He's required to put in five foot as it is. Barbeiro: Mr. Johnson, when will the W. Harbor Point Drive be operational? Johnson: I tried to find that out today, but they didn't have a time schedule that they could tell me. Hopefully - Barbeiro: Within a year? Johnson: Oh, yes. PI2~ns have been approved and everything. They just preparing for construction now. MacCoy: Okay moving on what else did you have comment? Johnson: We don't have a problem with anything on that. I just wanted to clarify the points on the tree count and the sidewalk. As far as Mr. Lovan's comments about when we're ready to start construction, the parking lot is designed, ready to submit this week upon approval of that, we're ready to start paving. Like I said we have the underground utilities in for the temporary site and there was a comment in there about six months maximum for the temporary clubhouse. We feel that's more than enough. MacCoy: Okay you're saying that you wouldn't have to have it that long in other words, right? Johnson: Well we would certainly hope not. It depends on the approval process. MacCoy: I understand that yes. That's the part you can't control and neither do we. Johnson: And how soon he gets kicked off the current site. MacCoy: Yeah, I realize that. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission May 11, 1999 Page 23 De Weerd: Mr. Chairman, one other comment I would like Mr. Johnson to remark on would be the fire chief s comments. Johnson: Regarding the fire hydrant? De Weerd: Uh-huh. Johnson: There's an eight inch currently stubbed out to the property line. That eight inch in order to be taken over to the east side of the canal has to be engineered showing the valve structures and the bends in the pipe. Once the pipe is over there we just put the fire hydrant on it right there and then once the clubhouse is actually operational we remove the temporary clubhouse then that eight inch line will connect to the existing clubhouse with the backflow prevention valves and we'll have sprinklers in the clubhouse. De Weerd: But you will have an adequate hydrant for the temporary? Johnson: Yes, yes. MacCoy: And you understand the requirement for sprinklers in the building? Johnson: Yes. MacCoy: Basement. Johnson: Yes, it will be throughout the building both levels. MacCoy: That's for your protection as well as the code. Johnson: Sure. MacCoy: You got anything else on that? Staff, do you have anything at this moment? Freckleton: Mr. Chairman, members of the commission, I just wanted to make a couple of points of clarification. Site specific comment number three, we talked about repayment of late comers fees. I learned today that the clubhouse area was not included in the late comer service area, so they will not be subject to those fees. So just want to clarify that point and then on site specific item number seven the sidewalk - those sidewalks are included in the planning for Lake at Cherry Lane No. 8 so they will be built. Johnson: That's correct. I did say number four, didn't I? Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission May 11, 1999 Page 24 Barbeiro: Mr. Johnson, assuming that you had a building permit tomorrow, how quickly could you have parking and clubhouse constructed and ready for operation? Johnson: If we had the building permit tomorrow, the contractor is prepared to start tomorrow on the parking lot. Once the parking lot is in place, we can move the temporary structure over. We're ready to break ground if funding is available and you know we have to have the approval of the actual building plans, but then we'd be underway and we are hoping for four months from beginning to completion. Barbeiro: 120 days of construction from -that's for the building alone. What I'd like to know is it's a bare piece of land now, parking lot, clubhouse operational. If you had your building permit tomorrow for everything. Johnson: Maximum five months. Barbeiro: Thank you. MacCoy: Staff do you happen to have a set of drawings yet other than the stuff we have right now? Okay how soon will we - Johnson: Which drawings is that, sir? MacCoy: Well all I have so far is this set right here which is very difficult one to read. I am looking for a set of drawings that we can take a look at, the building material, the structures and everything else. So I'm looking for when can we see something like that? Johnson: We will approach or get a hold of the contractor or the architect right away and ask him for a full set of 24 x 36 (inaudible). MacCoy: Ship them down to the Planning and Zoning Department. Johnson: Oh yeah. MacCoy: All right thank you. You can take a seat I guess now at this point. All right, where were we? Is there anyone else that would like to make a statement for this? Let me go back to that point right now since we interrupted our run. Okay, anybody else here would like to make a statement to in the opposite direction against this operation? PAUL NEWCOMB 3837 W. HARBOR POINT DRIVE, MERIDIAN Newcomb: 1'd like to make several points on this. I'd like to start when I first received the notice from the City about this hearing, I concocted my own letter and spread it out Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission May 11, 1999 Page 25 amongst the area residents and spoke with numerous residents and request they give me their written were they not able to make it to this meeting. I'd like to submit these to the commission for your perusal at a later date. Now absolving myself as the spokesman for those people, I'd like to change my hat back to Paul Newcomb, zealot and make a few points here. The contract between Cherry Lane Recreation and the City of Meridian was nudge, nudge, wink, wink signed on the 3'~ day of October, 1978. I believe at that time the director of Cherry Lane Recreation probably had an inclination that he needed a structure to operate out of and a conditional use permit was let in 1982 allowing the current trailer house to be sited at its current location and for the last 17 years, the trailer house has been the primary operating facility. The information that was given by Cherry Lane Recreation tonight makes me extremely concerned. They seem to be very evasive as far as a start date. The question that was posed to them numerous times was how long from the day that you have your building permit in hand, how soon will you have a structure made. Well it depends on funding, it depends on this, it depends on that. I would question the commission on a couple of issues. I've reviewed the conditional use permit. There is no mention in it anywhere of a concrete time line. They will have the temporary structure out in 120 days. They'll have the temporary structure out in 180 days. There is no mention of that anywhere in the conditional use permit. Borup: Mr. Newcomb a permit hasn't even been issued yet. Newcomb: In the application, excuse me. Borup: This commission would put restrictions on it. Newcomb: I understand that. It just occurs to me that this process has been drug out seventeen years through conditions and circumstances which Cherry Lane Recreation has really done nothing to mitigate and it would very much be my request that were the commission to approve it that they put extremely strict time lines and if possible a monetary bond be put up or a monetary fund be enforced should that time line be violated. My personal preference is here is that the City take the opportunity to right a wrong that was written on October 13t" of 1978 allowing me a moment to read the paragraph three from the agreement of lease between the City of Meridian and the Cherry Lane Recreation regarding rental. In lieu of paying any monetary rental until the second nine hole golf course is constructed and leased to the lessee, lessee shall at its own cost and without any obligation liability or indebtedness of the lessor, and within a reasonable time operate, conduct and carry on a golf course upon the leased premises for the use and benefit of the public generally in accordance with the objects or purpose of its incorporation. Lessee, meaning Cherry Lane Recreation shall pay the sum of $6,000 per year in advance as rental. This annual payment shall first become due on the first day of October next following the date upon which an additional nine hole golf course shall have been constructed by or on behalf of lessor and leased by it to lessee Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission May 11, 1999 Page 26 herein on substantially the same terms and conditions as contained in this agreement. Since the day the Cherry Lane Golf Course was opened, Cherry Lane Recreation did not pay the City one single dime in revenue in any way, shape or form. It was not until the second nine was opened up that the rental clause in the lease actually came into effect, and I believe that was September of '97. Would someone please correct me if I'm wrong. I believe that we as a city have the opportunity to correct this wrong. I can tell you the obvious not having figures to recite, but having researched it to some degree, $6,000 for an 18 hole golf course is a lease payment that anyone would love to have, myself included. But it's not realistic for a municipal golf course to only be receiving $6,000 in rent. I would request that the Commission deny the conditional use permit application, allow the golf course the current lessor to be evicted from the temporary facilities, allow the golf course to be shut down, which would cause the lessee to be in default according to paragraph nine page 4 of the agreement of lease and at that point, the City would be able to take over ownership and management of the Cherry Lane Golf Course and receive the monetary reimbursements that are due with an 18 hole course for the City. Any questions? Borup: Just a comment. Do you realize you're talking to the wrong body? We don't have the authority to - Newcomb: You do have the authority to decline -you have the authority to recommend that the conditional use permit not be granted. At that point then it's up to the rest of us to go to the City Council. Borup: It goes to City Council and they're the ones that negotiated the lease and the whole thing anyway. Newcomb: I understand that. All we're looking for is your recommendation that the conditional use permit not be granted. Borup: So your recommendation is to shut down the golf course essentially. Newcomb: No, my recommendation is for you to - Borup: f mean your preference is for the golf course cease business and anew - Newcomb: Iwy preference was to allow the golf course to shut down to correct an error which could have been fixed 17 years ago, and allow the City to number one take control of the revenue which the golf course generates. Borup: Again those are issues that we can't address, so as far as (Inaudible) Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission May 11, 1999 Page 27 Borup: You're asking us to deny the request. Newcomb: Yes, I am. Borup: Okay, thank you. De Weird: Mr. Newcomb, what would that -your recommendation to deny based on what? Newcomb: Based purely on the fact that the city has the opportunity to - De Weerd: I know but we can't take that into account. We can't look at those factors. What is your recommendation? Newcomb: Cherry Lane Recreation had a conditional use permit granted in 1982 that is 17 years ago. Cherry Lane Recreation has a history of ignoring the obvious. They know the conditional use permit is conditional. They have ignored the obvious that they need to have a permanent structure. Not until they received an eviction notice from their landlord did it actually inspire them to actually do something to mitigate the problem. It is my opinion that given the opportunity Cherry Lane Recreation would move the trailer house to the end of what is now number two and leave it there for another 17 years. I would recommend that this commission does not take Cherry Lane Recreation's application as it currently stands. As there is no enforceable way to prevent them from leaving it sit there for another 17 years as the application is written, there is no enforceable way to prevent them from leaving the temporary structure there for 17 years. MacCoy: Let me tell you a little bit here. We have the date that you talk about. We have it in stacked here. We have the history, we have everything and this commission is a different commission than allowed this to happen before and we have been in consultation for the last couple of months on the legality of all this and how we can straighten it out. We agree with a lot of the people here that it has been 17 years. That should never have happened, and so we can't talk about the history. We can talk about the future and that starts now. Newcomb: I am merely that as the P & Z Commission, you have an opportunity to make a recommendation to the City Council and then you leave it to us to go to the City Council and make our views known to them in the same light. MacCoy: And you will because that's the way the system works. Newcomb: Yes. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission May 11, 1999 Page 28 Barbeiro: Mr. Newcomb, speaking from the present and the future, it's fair to say that you have little faith in the word of Cherry Lane Recreation. Newcomb: Yes. Barbeiro: Your recommendation is not necessarily one that is operational, but one that is procedural. It is your recommendation and correct me that we decline the temporary use permit, that procedurally that would not allow the golf course to continue operations under the lease with Cherry Lane Recreation. At that point Cherry Lane Recreation would be in default of the lease and would allow it or open it up to either the City or other bidders to be Newcomb: According to the lease, if the lessee is in default, it automatically reverts the City's ownership and management. Barbeiro: Okay that opens it up to either the City operating it or the City putting out to bid shall we say and which would also allow Cherry Lane to be amongst the bidders to operate the facility. Newcomb: Correct. Barbeiro: Thank you. Rossman: I think it's important before we have any further testimony to keep this proceeding from exploding into issues that are not relevant for this proceeding, and relevant issues for this proceeding are whether or not this application for a conditional use permit for a temporary clubhouse and a permanent clubhouse comply with the Meridian Planning and Zoning ordinance and are compatible with the standards set forth within the ordinance regarding conditional use permits. Whether or not the golf course is an efficient outlet for the City of Meridian is not a relevant issue for this proceeding. Is the clubhouse and the application consistent with the standards and the ordinance are the only relevant issues in this proceeding, and obviously delay as to whether or not they are going to actively construct this facility once the zoning is permitted and the building permit is issued is certainly a relevant issue. (Inaudible) De Weerd: Mr. Kesler. MacCoy: Do you want tp come forward here? (Inaudible) Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission May 11, 1999 Page 29 MacCoy: Wait a minute. You got to get up to the mike here, because it's got to be (inaudible). Kesler: Okay, just one question. You were going to wait to answer and that was when was the eviction notice provided to the present tenant? MacCoy: You'll have to ask them, but my understanding was that it was in the month of April and it gave the date as the end of the month of April. I don't know when they received it. I don't have that information. Rossman: The City didn't issue that notice, sir. MacCoy: Steiner issued it because it's their property. Kesler: Okay. MacCoy: All right come on up here. Tucker: I agree with Mr. Newcomb, but what I'm concerned about is the parking area. It shows an entrance or exit on the W. Harbor Point. I don't know if you have the same drawing. MacCoy: Excuse me, would you state your name again for the record. Tucker: Dave Tucker and I live at 4014 W. Harbor Point. This schematic that I have of the - is this what you have? It shows the parking area and thQ main entrance is on the boulevard, the Talamore Boulevard, but it shows another entrance or exit on W. Harbor Point. What I would like is that eliminated because on W. Harbor Point, there are retirees and down the street if people go that way and there will be a lot of traffic. There's a lot of little kids down there. But if you eliminate that entrance or exit from that parking area on Harbor Point, all traffic will be on the boulevard. MacCoy: Okay good point. Tucker: Very good point, thank you. Borup: I have a question Mr. Chairman. Yes, you were saying there's -where are the residents on Harbor Point? I assume that it's further down the street north and east. Tucker: If you go east on Harbor Point, there's no homes right there just east of the canal yet, but there will be. But as you go east on Harbor Point, there are ~ lot of retirees who bought homes - Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission May 11, 1999 Page 30 Borup: Well I guess my question would be why would that other exit put more traffic on W. Harbor Point? Tucker: I'm saying if you get rid of that, there will be no traffic on Harbor Point. Borup: Well yes it intersects down there with Talamore. The same cars can still go. Tucker: Right, but that's the boulevard and they will be heading out towards Black Cat. Borup: And so if they turn in on Harbor Point, they won't go to Black Cat if that's where they want to go? Tucker: Well they may, but they might turn right too, so what I'm telling you is as a citizen I don't want that there. Borup: Well I'm saying it's not going to make any difference. People are going to go where they want to go. Tucker: Yeah, that's true. Borup: And if someone lives on W. Harbor Point, they are not going to drive to Black Cat and come around - Tucker: I'm not talking about the people that live there, and I think you know that. Borup: But people are going to go the shortest and most convenient way, and whether they have to come out on Talamore and circle around to W. Harbor, they are still going to go there and I don't know, maybe I -there may be some - I think there's probably some other issues on the amount of exits that are required on a project this size. MacCoy: Yes, I think there is. We have to take a look at that, but he's raised the question so it's fine. Borup: Most of the homes are to the east though. Is there anything directly across the street was what I was wondering really. Tucker: On Harbor Point? No. Borup: Okay thank you. MacCoy: Anyone else? Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission May 11, 1999 Page 31 SHIRLEY TUCKER Tucker: My name is Shirley Tucker and I'm at 4014 W. Harbor Point, and I just want to clarify something that my husband had brought up. What we're talking about is on W. Harbor Point Drive all the houses face the road. We have a setback of I don't know what it is. MacCoy: About 20 feet. Tucker: Yeah. We all face the road. We have children, we have family things going on there. Talamore does not have any houses facing the road. It's a boulevard. It's all just a greenway through there. What we were thinking is if they could open up if they closed this and open up another exit here, it would naturally flow all the traffic or the majority of the traffic towards Talamore and back on Black Cat. Now you get someone who lives there, they're going to be aware of the way the houses are on W. Harbor Point Drive and they will go slow. We have a problem with speeding now, but it's mainly the construction guys. So we're kind of looking at people who get lost, people who you know, it's a very easy thing just to come in Talamore and if the exit flows back out Talamore, they won't get lost where it goes out Harbor Point, they're going to sit there and go now which way did I come in? I don't know maybe men don't do that, but women do. And so we were thinking that it might just be a better traffic flow if you had them come in and go out another exit right on the same boulevard where there no houses facing and less chance of children running out there. Thank you. Any questions? MacCoy: I guess not. Thank you. Anyone else would like to speak at this time in our open public hearing? JACK FROST Frost: My name is Jack Frost. I live at 2200 Oak Hills Drive. I'm wearing two hats here tonight. The first one is I'm president of the Cherry Lane Homeowners Association 3, 4 and 5, which is (Inaudible) and Oak Hills and Woodmont and (Inaudible) and Birdie Drive and Tupelo and all that area in there. Speaking for the president and not of all the homeowners, what I'm concerned about is making sure that we do have a professional and good clubhouse and outbuildings that are new. That's our biggest concern so that our property value stays the same, not increases and it's a beautiful area out there and we want to keep it that way. I know there are new homes going in on Lake Harbor or-I think that was the street and on Talamore and all that area out there. We do-we are concerned about that and want something professional in there. Along time coming and we're glad to see the clubhouse is going to be built. My other hat is an individual on Oak Hills Drive. I do approve and would approve a conditional use permit, but I do not approve of moving the trailer house over there. I don't even see how it's going to make Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission May 11, 1999 Page 32 it when they (Inaudible). To answer the question, what's the alternative, I don't know what the alternative is. He's had 17 years to think about this and so that's-I don't know, but if you do approve it and let him move that trailer over there, there better be some restrictions for removal within 60 days, or whatever. I'm with the gentleman who was up here earlier. If there-if he does not comply with the building conditions in four months, or five months, whatever it is, but that (Inaudible) clause be included. It's a long time coming, nothing personal against Mr. Lovan, I like Mr. Lovan and a lot of people that work there, but I think we ought to move on and let's get that sucker built and make it professional. MacCoy: We agree, maybe to ease your mind, one of the things I just asked for earlier was the drawings because we agree collectively that we want a quality place out there, if we are going to have a house, let's make it right. Frost: Yeah, Mr. Lovan showed me the drawing and it looks real nice. MacCoy: Yeah, we still have a lot of questions yet. We are going to be looking at it pretty tightly. Any other questions for him? De Weerd: I have none. MacCoy: Any other person out here who would like to feel inclined to come up and say something? Come ahead. GORDON MARGULIUX, 2040 INTERLACHEN WAY, MERIDIAN. Marguliux: I'm actually less than 50 feet from the clubhouse right now. My concern, I just got here, I don't know what else other people have mentioned. My sole concern right now, because it's actually to my benefit because the traffic will cut down drastically. We often have traffic parking on our street for the golf course, so I'm glad to see they have a lot of parking over here. There is a lot of things that they've done well, but my concern is the noise that will come from the new clubhouse, not in the sense from the golfers, but #rom the sense-the fact that they have a new clubhouse and will want to have things in it like parties and things like that. Over the course of ten years where we have lived we have had a couple instances where the golf course has had parties and in those cases we've felt the brunt of the vindictiveness of the Lovans for our concern about the noise that they generate. A number of times we've had to go out there after midnight to ask them to turn down their amplifiers, and we've done it nicely, we're not ranting and raving out there, but we have gone down and found Wally and asked him. I've had, I've felt the vindictiveness the following day from Wally, my kids have felt the vindictiveness, my wife has felt the vindictiveness. At one time, they even had a wedding which the police came, we didn't call them, but the police came and had to break it up because of a fight between the bride and groom, but what we did in each Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission May 11, 1999 Page 33 case, the following day or following week, we've gotten some (Inaudible) from the Lovans showing their discomfort with our apparently in being there, as in the case with the wedding, which we didn't call at all. There is no as far as I know, no noise ordinance in Meridian-there is now? We called on the second time, since they didn't seem to want to do anything about it. We called the police and they told us that there was no noise ordinance and because they owned a liquor license they could go a lot later than 12:00. So my concern is that in the middle of the summer time when the weather is really nice out there and they open the doors and they come onto the golf course and the band is playing and the school children who have to go to Chaparral, a year round school and trying to get some sleep and they could care less. This is an open golf course, there is no barriers. They are going to build this thing six feet above the ground. My fence can't be over six feet above the ground, but they are going to put this thing six feet above the ground and taper it off in the direction of the golf course, or across these houses. I can throw a golf ball from where they want to have it over to the first house on Lot 1$ on Harbor Point. My concern is that they don't care, they haven't cared in the past, and they won't care in the future and if you give them a nice golf course clubhouse, they will want to do that. What my proposal is that they use sound deadening material which is not specified right now in there that they make the windows smaller, they have big pane glass windows which will just carry that sound through there, that they will have a curfew that at 10:00 which is not unreasonable, that 10:00 there will be no outside activities at the golf course, I don't care if they play golf, that's never been a problem, but I think if you look at the plans, their plans are set up with a dining area that faces that lake, which there is no noise barriers there. All they have that keep-is used as a buffer, they have three trees, three inch diameter Ash trees that they are going to have in there. So that's my concern. Any questions? MacCoy: No, anyone else? Come ahead. DICK JOHNSON. Johnson: I just have, I have to comment on a couple of'things that have been said. It keeps coming back to the 17 years of this clubhouse being there. In 1982 at the Planning and Zoning Commission hearing, Mr. Lovan said he would move that clubhouse the day the road was in and utilities were there, that happened in 1997. We have taken a year to do the design. We are ready to start. The parking lot was not owned by the city until 1995. Therefore, no construction could have been started in there prior to that time. Parts of the clubhouse site (Inaudible) were not deeded to the city until 1997. Thus establishing a complete clubhouse site. Just one other thing about that old clubhouse, believe me, Wally and every player out there wants it gone as soon as possible. Once we are allowed to start our construction, we will get in there and we'll get it done and we will get rid of that clubhouse. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission May 11, 1999 Page 34 Borup: Mr. Johnson, the site that this application is for, is that the site that had been planed for the clubhouse from the beginning? Johnson: Since 1975, yes. Borup: Okay, so it was just waiting for the roads to get in? Johnson: For the roads to get in place and the infrastructure as far as power, sewer, water, that became available in the fall of 1997, we started on the project in 1998. Borup: So this was the original site that was planned all along? Thank you. Johnson: Yes, we just didn't have parking or the area for the parking lot. MacCoy: Somebody back here wanted to have a say. LOREE LOVAN. Lovan: It's probably not for the benefit of the commission here, just for my own knowledge, I work with ReMax professionals, we've had to have party permits and noise permits and that. There is a noise ordinance at 11:00 P.M. So I just wanted to clarify that for those of you who don't knov~if a permit is issued by the police department, that is when you shut down and that's when we have always shut down out there, if not before, as in the case of the wedding and that was a half an hour before at 10:30. MacCoy: Anyone else at this point? Do you see anybody else? Here comes Mr. Grant. GRANT KINGSFORD, 4304 W. WHITEASH, MERIDIAN. Kingsford: With regard to-I didn't come in at the very beginning and I don't know everything that has been said, but this has been a project that has been a pain in the butt probably for everyone involved. For most the people surrounding the golf course, and I can assure you it was a pain in the butt for myself. We have a situation here that in 1977 when the first nine was built, the developer was going to build a clubhouse and he was going to exercise his options, build the next nine all of which would be deeded to the city. At that time, I had just got elected to the council, I didn't start to serve till that January, this was in November. The economy went up side down, and that developer bless his heart went back to Seattle, which I could think of a few places that I would've rather he gone. But any event, the project was never able to be built, the clubhouse and those sorts of things because we didn't own the land where it needed to go. Mr. Borup is exactly correct, it had always been planned and designed to be where it is going to go now. We didn't have those other nine holes and the area that the clubhouse Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission May 11, 1999 Page 35 will occupy, those things didn't take place until 1997 and 1998. Really the Lovans nor the City of Meridian had an accurate legal description as to where it went until this year. So to have that project go forward, while everybody has been frustrated, I think the Lovans have been as frustrated as anyone. Certainly, of the things that I tried to do while I was at this city, I'll have to admit this was the most frustrating. It was a situation where the city owned a piece of land, we had a developer with the original nine that had some control over that, the Aires to Lewvitt-NuPacific, you had a pair of old farmers that owned some land, you had developers that then optioned those pieces of land, some of those options had switched hands during that time. I'll tell you, if you could have a legal and real estate nightmare, there is one there, but I don't think you can hoist that off to the Lovans. I think probably if there were errors made, maybe the city made them. When we annexed that property, the design was to be annexed for a golf course, that whole section of land was designed, prior to my occupation with the city, while I was teaching school here but hadn't moved into town, it was designed and annexed to be a golf course, an 18 hole golf course. The owners of the property that is now being developed as the back nine both came to me and said the development, the economy is up side down, let us build some other things, let us have a nursing home, let us have a hospital, let us have a racquet and swim club and I said let us have what you annexed the property for, a golf course. So we stuck to our guns and finally some twenty plus years later, we have an 18 hole golf course. Hopefully, we can have a clubhouse that people can check in and have a sandwich, on rare occasion maybe have a beverage after they played. Certainly an issue, let's not be pointing fingers at who is to blame, probably I would like to point fingers at attorney's, I always like to pick on them. Surely, don't like him and I don't even know him. I used to sit up here and really bash him. I've gotten out of that habit. I think what we have is a situation where we have new legal counsel in the city and the reason that the lawyers do so well is there is so many of them. We used to have one in town, boy I tell you he could barely live and they got two and they did a little better and now my God, they are doing real well. I think the issue is now we have a different legal counsel and they are saying the zgne is not right. It was right as early-as recently as a year ago, but we have a different attorney. So things have changed, so don't be pointing fingers at each other, let's get the damn thing zoned and built. Thank you very kindly for your indulgence. MacCoy: Is there anyone else who would like to add to this? De Weerd: Was Mr. Kingsford for or against? MacCoy: We are trying to get this thing finished correctly, go ahead. Lovan: I would like to get this thing consummated too. It's been one of the most frustrating things I've ever had happen to me. To stand up here and listen to people, some are for it, some are against it. (Inaudible) That is not the issue, the issue is that Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission May 11, 1999 Page 36 this thing has sat under being there in 1975. That's when it first started, it was a dream of a couple of farmers there. I became involved in this thing in Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission May 11, 1999 Page 36 this thing has sat under being there in 1975. That's when it first started, it was a dream of a couple of farmers there. I became involved in this thing in (End of Tape) Lovan: I finally took over this golf course and I was going to operate it because nobody else wanted to do it. The city had no money, the one percent thing went on the ballot, there was no money anywhere. I did not want the thing to go by the waste side. Every good city must have a good golf course. I've done my best to make it a good golf course. I think I have done a pretty good job. We are right now, in the later years of getting this thing finished. We need a little push right now. The place where I'm at right now, Mr. Steiner, he wants to develop it. He's wanting us off of there. In order to make it work for him and for me, I would like to move that mobile home for another four months or so. At that point in time, I will have built a club house of about 8,000 square feet and this was never in my lease agreement. I'm doing this now for my town. You better believe it, this is my town. I went to school here, I sent my kids to school here, I have my granddaughter going to school now and it is all of our towns. There is nobody here who has worked as hard for so many years tried to do something and make our town better. So all I need now is just a little help to get us through this little period here. Mr. Steiner who owns the property that our clubhouse is on now, he would like to develop it. So all I'm asking for is the club house, temporary clubhouse that I have right now. I agree with everybody, it is getting tattered now. It was never supposed to have been used as long as it has, but I've been moving as fast as I possibly could to have it completed. It will be completed by the end of this year if I have cooperation. That's it. MacCoy: Thank you very much, any questions for him before he walks away. Anyone else? I think we've pretty well exhausted the material. Staff do you have anything you want to add at this time? Commissioners, what is the verdict? What do you want to do? De Weerd: Mr. Chairman, I guess I would like to ask staff a question. Shari, during the testimony I believe the Tuckers brought up the suggestion to close off one exit and perhaps add another curb cut on Talamore Boulevard, is that a possibility? I guess I should be asking the developers as well. Stiles: It would need to be addressed by Ada County Highway District, there is also the issue of the landscape island that exists in that road or is planned to be in the road. It's there? That would make that hard to do unless you removed part of it. De Weerd: Have we received comments from ACHD? Perhaps Mr. Johnson can answer that. Johnson: Ada County Highway District required 24 foot paved entry on Talamore and on Harbor Point each place, and it's also for fire access for access for the fire truck to Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission May 11, 1999 Page 37 come in (Inaudible). This was approved by Ada County Highway District about a month ago. MacCoy: Sounds reasonable because the code requires two entrances. Borup: Mr. Johnson, it looks like the design is indicating that the entrance exit on Talamore would be the major entrance. It looks like it's designed that way and that's the intention? Johnson: That is the intention, that's the highest traffic count road, so that would be the main entry. Borup: Thank you. MacCoy: Commissioner De Weerd did he answer your question? De Weerd: Yes, thank you. MacCoy: Okay, all right, the commissioners, do you want to continue the hearing or do you want to close the hearing or what do you want to do? Borup: Mr. Chairman, I move that we close this public hearing. De Weerd: Second. Mac~oy: All in favor? MOTION CARRIED: All ayes. MacCoy: What's your motion? Barbeiro: I have a question if I may. As I read here their request says conditional use permit for a golf course clubhouse, parking lot and temporary clubhouse. If we approve this, we are approving all three. MacCoy: That's what you are doing yes. So how do you want to phrase it? You can break it up, you've been given this as one item, but you can break it down. Borup: I think there is one staff recommendation that seems to be well in line with what most of the public testimony was and that is the time frame. Shari's suggestion on item no. 12 that maximum time frame of six months on the temporary clubhouse. Most of those who talked were talking even up to 12 months. The letters were saying, that we read, that were 6-12 months. The six months seems to be in line with what the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission May 11, 1999 Page 38 applicant says would work for them. I think that would be an appropriate condition to leave in there, to include in... De Weerd: Do you want to finish reading that paragraph because the rest of that also addresses some other comments. Borup: IT says the maximum time frame of six months needs to be established for allowing the temporary clubhouse, prior to moving the temporary clubhouse a letter of credit or cash should be received by the City of Meridian as guarantee for completion of permanent clubhouse and parking lot. The applicant did say that they had no problem with any of the conditions and that was one of them, so I guess that was included. That was one of the site specific. I think the only thing that needs to be worked out with staff is the amount of the letter of credit or bond. MacCoy: As long as you put tha# in your motion. Borup: The motion will include all staff comments would handle that. MacCoy: Let's make sure that come in there. Barbeiro: Okay, my concern is that according to the owners representative, the building and parking lot could be built in no less than five months. The permitting process based upon their having a complete set of drawings available today would be two months. There is seven months. (Inaudible) itself, this could not be built from today, where it sits today in six months. Borup: I had the same concerns, in fact I wrote down a note that six months from the time of issuance of building permit. Maybe we need to put a timeframe on that too on when the permit is applied for. They have testified they are ready, they are needing the approval before they can submit for the permit. De Weerd: It's too bad that we didn't ask someone out there if they could give us an idea of when that trailer needs to be moved. I was going to ask it, but didn't want to put him on the spot. It would be nice to have that information. MacCoy: When they are going to move the trailer? They can't move it anyplace because there is no agreement to move it. De Weerd: When that trailer needs to be off it's current spot. MacCoy: Well, their eviction notice is already passed. It's like off now. That's one of the things that has been concerning the Lovans because they are at a point of shutting down the golf course. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission May 11, 1999 Page 39 De Weerd: Well, as I read it, it's six months after the approval of this CUP. It sounds like they can do that. Shari, what kind of time frame is it to get a building permit? Stiles: Commercial building permits I think are typically taking them about 4-6 weeks from the time that they start the process. De Weerd: And do they need a building permit before they put in a parking lot? Stiles: They need to have an approved plan. Borup: Approved by the building department? Stiles: It goes through the public works department. Borup: For the parking lot? Stiles: But the use itself is not currently permitted. Borup: I think what Tammy is wondering can the parking-construction of parking lot can start prior to the issuance of the building permit on the building? Stiles: It could. I mean once it goes through City Council. If council directs us to do that. Borup: Then commissioners, is the question is when does the six months start? Isn't that what you were leading to as a problem? De Weerd: That would certainly be my question. Barbeiro: Well, as I read it, it says six months and I'm reading it from the day that we approve the conditional use permit. We've already established that there is no way they can build this in six months. Borup: Right. Rossman: But you are not really approving the conditional use permit. You are recommending approval. What I think the staff recommendation is directed to is six months from the approval of the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law by the City Council. Borup: I think Tom is wondering if that's... Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission May 11, 1999 Page 40 Rossman: That may not be sufficient, that's up to you. Borup: Well if you are talking six weeks for a building permit, now we are down to four in a half months. De Weerd: They said they could build it in four. So lets go, lets do it. Borup: You know how some of those contractors are. MacCoy: I know Keith. You have the best feel for that, where do you want to sit down for timing? Borup: I think six months from the issuance of the building permit gives plenty of leeway there. Then maybe we need to say six or eight weeks from the approval to have the building permit. Or just go eight months from the time of approval. That would be a month and a half or so for approval of permit and six months to have the construction. Barbeiro: In addressing the letter of credit or cash, do you want to continue with a specific recommendation? We can do a performance bond, we could do a... De Weerd: I would prefer to leave that up to staff. Borup: Me too. Barbeiro: Okay. MacCoy: Okay, do you got a motion? Rossman: Please include within any motion if there are any staff recommendations that you don't want to-well, just what your direction is with regard to the staff recommendations. De Weerd: Such as omitting three and seven of site specific comments. Rossman: That's fine. Borup: Oh, something else just hit me on how this... De Weerd: Were those right Bruce? Freckleton: Yes. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission May 11, 1999 Page 41 Borup: Staff recommendations were no more than six months for the temporary clubhouse. The temporary clubhouse wasn't going to move in my understanding until after the parking lot was built. Is that correct? MacCoy: That was said, but he is going to have to move that. Borup: He's not going to move it until there is parking at the new site. Was the testimony that I heard. MacCoy: That's what happens, if he's got a house out there, a temporary house, and he can't park the car, he's stuck anyway. Borup: Okay, so then I don't know that six months is a problem. That's after the trailer is moved, you are talking six months. Isn't going to move until the parking lot is built. MacCoy: Well that's what he said anyway. We've got a limbo state here that has been. De Weerd: I'm hoping the powers that be are working it out back there. (END OF TAPE) Borup: Well I believe that was how I heard earlier, so I don't know that we needed to change anything on staff comments other than, what was already mentioned. We are not talking about six months from now, we are talking about having the temporary clubhouse for six months and that time doesn't start until it's moved. Isn't that correct? We are not talking about giving-so the six months will start from the time that the clubhouse is moved and how fast that happens is going to be up to... MacCoy: It's a chain reaction. Borup: Well no, but they've got some control there. So I don't think we have a concern. De Weerd: Well it first has to clear tonight, let's just get this going. Barbeiro: Yeah, what I see as a problem and I'd like to ask the staff this, as it stands, we do not have permits or anything operational available for them to build the parking lot yet. De Weerd: No. Barbeiro: So we need a parking lot first and then they can move the temporary building to it's site, we are still two months out before they can even have a parking lot going. Borup: That's what they are going to have to work out with their landlord or sit dawn. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission May 11, 1999 Page 42 MacCoy: We have no control over that. Barbeiro: Now established a time frame, thank you. De Weerd: Mr. Chairman, I move that we approve a conditional use permit for a golf course clubhouse, parking lot and temporary clubhouse to omit comments site specific comments 3 and 7 and to underline comments number 12. Borup: Your motion was to recommend approval? Okay, second that. MacCoy: Discussion? Barbeiro: Point of clarification, there has been a discussion of the operations of the new clubhouse that perhaps if I were to infer that it is operational during daylight operations only during the time that active golfers would be on the course and returning off the course. Do we have the right to establish the recommendation that the clubhouse be operational during daylight hours or golfing hours. MacCoy: I don't see where that comes into our jurisdiction. De Weerd: Does Bruce have a comment? Freckleton: Mr. Chairman, members of the commission, I just wanted to make one small point of clarification on site specific item no. 3. The latecomer fees is the only portion of that comment that we need to strike, the requirement for the... De Weerd: Entering into an assessment agreement. Okay. Freckleton: Still needs to be in there. Borup: Actually we probably don't need to strike that, it says may be charged, it doesn't say will be charged anyway. De Weerd: Okay, well I would amend my motion to include site specific comment no. 3. Borup: Second. MacCoy: Any more discussion now? De Weerd: No. MacCoy: Okay, I'm going to call for the vote. All in favor? Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission May 11, 1999 Page 43 MOTION CARRIED: All ayes. MacCoy: All right, thank you for coming this evening and putting your two bits in. It makes it easier for us believe it or not. It's 9:00 let's take a break right now and reconvene in 15 minutes. (BREAK) MacCoy: The commissioners and they've decided to go the distance tonight so we may be here till along time, we request that you work with us and we can get this thing done fast. Item 3 now, having completed item 15, it's a continued public hearing. ITEM NO. 3: REQUEST FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR AMULTI-BUILDING COMMERCIAL OFFICE INCLUDING BANK FACILITY WITH DRIVE-THRU (TREASURE VALLEY BUSINESS CENTER) BY CLARK DEVELOPMENT- SOUTHWEST CORNER OF EAGLE RD & FAIRVIEW AVE: Stiles: Mr. Chairman, commissioners, we did receive a revised plan, we got that late Friday and was put in the packets and put in your boxes on Monday I believe. I have not had time to review it. I feel like they are perfectly willing to meet all their requirements, however, without having any time to review it, I don't feel comfortable making comment on the adequacy of the existing plan. Apparently we still do not have any utilities shown. Bruce has indicated that he does need to see that. The response was that the utilities are existing, but we don't know where those are, they are all private lines and I think as part of Bruce's review he does want to see that and I'm not sure whether waiting till the building permit application is submitted is adequate. Other than that, without having like I say the actual time to do a review of ordinance requirements, I can't comment that I would recommend this to go forward tonight. MacCoy: Bruce do you have anything? Is the applicant here, after all this? Come forward and state your name. BILL CLARK, 479 MAIN STREET. Clark: Commissioners based on what Shari just told you, I wonder if you might want to wait until she has had a chance and the rest of the staff to review the revised plans put together. Just as a general comment I think that we have complied in these revised plans with the concerns that were brought out in the initial staff report and with respect to the utilities, these utilities are part of those that have already been approved and installed for Treasure Valley Business Center who are simply hooking in to those and so those have already been approved and reviewed and accepted by the highway district and City of Meridian. I guess that's our view of it. It would be something that we would expect to be dealt with at least for the portion to be developed onto our site to hook into