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HomeMy WebLinkAbout99Jun15 CC mtg mins r MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING JUNE 15, 1999 The regular meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 7:30 p.m. on June 15, 1999 by Mayor Corrie. MEMBERS PRESENT: Ron Anderson, Keith Bird, Glenn Bentley, Charlie Rountree. OTHERS PRESENT: Mayor Bob Corrie, Will Berg, Bill Gigray, Bill Gordon, Gary Smith, Kenny Bowers, Tom Kuntz, Shari Stiles. Rountree: Mr. Mayor I move that we move public hearing item number 17 to the top of the regular agenda. Bird: I'll second that. Corrie: Motion is made by Mr. Rountree second by Mr. Bird to rearrange the agenda to have item number 17 which is a public hearing to be the first item. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion say aye. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. 17. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A GOLF COURSE CLUBHOUSE, PARKING LOT AND TEMPORARY CLUBHOUSE BY CHERRY LANE RECREATION tNC-4200 TALAMORE BLVD: Corrie: I'll open the - Bentley: Mr. Mayor, before we get into this, I need to make a disclosure. My sixteen year old son works part time as a summer job at Cherry Lane Golf Course. I don'# feel that this will have any problems with me rendering decisions on this, but I leave it up to the Council. Rountree: The way that boy eats, you probably need him working. Bird: I have no problem with it. Corrie: Mr. Rountree? Rountree: Not a problem. Anderson: No concerns. Corrie: Okay, you're in for the full duration tonight. Since this is a public hearing, we'll first hear from the staff. Staff, is there any recommendations from the Planning and Zoning to the City Council that staff has any problems with? Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, you have their recommendation dated, well the cover letter is dated May 26, 1999. One of our recommendations was deleted by action of the Planning and Zoning Commission and that was the need to have sidewalks constructed Meridian City Council Meeting June 15, 1999 Page 2 adjacent to the current roadways and future roadways and they deleted that due to the applicant's statement that that would be part of other subdivisions' requirements to do the roads and the sidewalks. That maybe the case on the one road. That plat has not been finalized yet. It's still in the process of some revision and it will be some time before that roadway is completed. So the staff still would recommend that our original comment that those sidewalks be constructed remain. I believe you have in your packets, have you all received a set of these plans? They're a little more detailed than what was seen by Planning and Zoning Commission. I did receive a letter today from Johnson Land Surveying that you may also have a copy of that in your packets indicating who their consultants would be and there was a little confusion about some of the notes that were made on the plans we received. They referred to Stucco and then when we received these plans, it was referring to a rigid foam that nobody was really familiar with and I see that Mr. Johnson in his letter dated today does indicate it will be drivot so if the Council has any concerns about any of the architectural details or I guess this would be the forum to bring those up, so since it will be a city facility and owned by the city. Corrie: Any other staff comments? This is a public hearing. What I would like to do - I'msure, Wally are you going to be the representative for the - no? Okay, we'll have the developer or the applicant for the conditional use permit to speak first. One question that I have. We have received a petition to the Meridian City Council for approval of the conditional use permit at Cherry Lane Recreation Association. Does everyone have a copy of this thing? Would you like to have that put in this record? Yost: Mr. Mayor l would. Corrie: Okay. This is stating that the petitioners recommended this be based upon the assumption that all phases of the conditional use permit, parking lot, recreation location of the temporary clubhouse and completion of the permanent clubhouse will be completed in the time frame described at the Planning and Zoning and they do recommend that we accept that, so we'll make that part of the record then. So City Clerk if you will do so. Bird: Mr. Mayor, let's make sure that he identifies that these plans dated 5/18/99 with no revisions are the plans we are talking about; is that not right? Yost: I believe that's correct. Bird: Okay. Corrie: I'll have you identify yourself and I have one question for you. Meridian City Council Meeting June 15, 1999 Page 3 Yost: Mr. Mayor, Councilmen, my name is James A. Yost, and I'm here tonight as a spokesperson for Cheny Lane Recreation, Inc. I reside at 2638 N. Sea Cove, Meridian, Idaho. Cowie: Do you have any specific questions about the recommendations that was given to us by the Planning and Zoning Commission? Have you seen those? Yost: Mr. Mayor, I have. Corrie: Do you have any particular questions on any of those? Yost: Mr. Mayor and Councilmen, we have been questioned repeatedly for the last couple of weeks on information. We're willing to supply whatever information was requested by Planning and Zoning Commission or individuals and we've been trying to do that. I have a different job that I work at most of the time has kept me busy, so I'm not sure exactly what the status of those conditions are. The homeowners association and the principals that I'm speaking for tonight approve of the Planning and Zoning conditions. We will comply with whatever conditions on that parking lot that the city requests and I'll go through that in my opening statements. Cowie: Okay thank you. Yost: As stated, Mr. Mayor and Councilmen, I'm here tonight to represent Cherry Lane Recreation, Inc. The principals would seek your approval of the Planning and Zoning Commission's recommendations and to approve the conditional use permit which basically follows three basic categories. The first condition would be the completion of the parking lot that exists there west of the current driving range off from Talamore. The second condition or request would be the relocation of the temporary clubhouse from its current location to a location west of the number two hole tee box area which is adjacent to the proposed site of the new facility and thirdly, the ability by the principals to apply for the necessary permits and conditions required to begin construction of the new clubhouse facility and as stated earlier the applicants will agree to various conditions that were imposed by Planning and Zoning Commission and expect to comply with those conditions. With that objective, please allow me to further explain that the intent, the plans, the information has never changed on behalf of the plaintiffs. The recommendation suggestions and conditions requested by Planning and Zoning and other members and individuals have been and will agree to be agreed to by the plaintiffs. They're not trying to hold anything back. They're trying to present all the information they have. I# has been confusing at times for the plaintiffs. They may be a bit unaccustomed to the regulatory process and the bureaucracy which it does serve a purpose and is duly recognized. So there was a bit of confusion there. In an attempt to clarify that and to provide the additional information that has been requested by various individuals is the Cherry Lane Recreation, Inc. has employed the following folks for Meridian City Council Meeting June 15, 1999 Page 4 structural engineering, they employed Staply Engineering. For mechanical, they've employed Musgrove Engineering. For electrical, Taylor Engineering and for landscaping, The Land Group. Civil Engineering Services are provided by Johnson Engineering, but allow me to continue. There's been some issues and some discussions about the shrubbery in the parking lot and the comments that it contained a large spruce tree or some evergreen and there's no problem with removing that tree. I think it's been removed in the plans at this time. Any and all changes that the city wants orr the landscaping and the vegetation of that parking lot will be complied with. The landscape architect will work with you and the city folks, Planning and Zoning or the City Engineer. We'll provide the proper vegetation and the other conditions for that parking lot without exception. There are three issues that have come up dealing with the new clubhouse that may clarify some of the information that's going around. First of atl the principals failed to fully understand that the complete plans architectural plans, mechanical engineering components would be required at the Planning and Zoning Commission. They thought that would perhaps come in the building permit side of the thing after the conditional use permit was provided. So the request for information have become more detailed so we have gone ahead and provided the proper engineering and for structural design, mechanical design, those types of things now. But one of the issues that came up was the issue about the stucco and on the original plans, we decided they put just stucco. However when questions were asked, they provided a more definite definition of a stucco like substance that is now used on Spurwing and Banbury clubhouses and that is particularly called exterior insulation and finish systems. It's a stucco type finish. If there's a problem with that, it can easily be resolved, but I think you'll find that for this area it's a particularly good construction material. Other construction materials have been questioned or more information has been requested by the principals is that the -dealt with the flooring materials for fire protection, two sheets of 5/8 sheet rock was requested. The city wants or desires one inch of concrete. There's no problem with the principals on doing that. If you have a preference over the type of building materials that go into your building, the principals are very accommodating as to how you want it done or how you want it constructed. We'll take those things into consideration. But we need to know what you want if that is the issue, and even thought they will construct the facility, you are deeply entitled to some preferences that you may want to select and they will not be a big issue with the principals. The final component questioned was the ventilation of the underground golf cart storage area. We didn't - I think originally they didn't think that was going to be a problem, but in lieu of the questions and concerns about that, we hired Musgrove Engineering who have provided similar service engineering at Spurwing, Hillcrest and Banbury where they provide the same type of ventilation services. We'll install that same system. If that isn't appropriate you tell us what - if you have a preference on the ventilation system, we will accommodate that request. In any event, on the construction of the clubhouse, the parking lot and moving the temporary facility to the new location, the Cherry Lane Recreation, Inc. will abide by all of the Idaho Codes, city and county codes. We have no intention of taking any shortcuts or not complying with any of those r Meridian City Council Meeting June 15, 1999 Page 5 codes. It's abit - it may have been a bit of a challenge to begin with, but I think the principals are now geared up and ready to fulfill whatever requests may come of them at this particular time. The financing has been arranged for this process and as agreed to by the Planning and Zoning Commission report that after they receive their final permits they will have a new clubhouse constructed within that six month requirement of the Planning and Zoning Commission. There isn't - in conclusion the principals request that tonight that if you have ques#ions about the clubhouse structure in and of itself, that there maybe some questions there that you're not comfortable with and we would provide and work with you on any additional information, but tonight specifically we request that at least you give the conditional use permit to finish the parking lot and move the temporary facility. It seems to be in the way of some other building arrangements in the area. So that we specifically request for tonight. I thank you for your attention and I'll stand for questions Mr. Mayor and Councilmen. Corrie: Any questions? Bird: I have none. Rountree: I have none. Corrie: Thank you. We'll take these in order of those who are in favor of approving the conditional use permit here tonight. If you will limit it to about three minutes, your comments, and then we'll have those who are objecting to it and then we'll have the last again will be Mr. Yost if he's still here will answer any questions that might come up during the testimony here tonight. So is there anybody here now that would like to testify in favor of the conditional use permit that are on the Council's agenda. Yes, sir. Grant: My name is Jim Grant. I reside at 3979 W. Harbor Point Drive in Meridian. My wife and I are charter members of the Cherry Lane Golf Club Associations having joined those groups in 1978, the firs# year of the Meridian Municipal nine hole Cherry Lane Golf Course. We were pleased to see the second nine holes constructed and then dedicated in September of 1997. Up to this point in time, golfers at Cheny Lane have always operated from a temporary clubhouse a limited parking and a remote driving range. The present application to build a permanent clubhouse and parking lot is based on the originally planned site and is the logical next step now that 18 holes are available. After the recent Planning and Zoning Commission public hearing and positive response, we encourage the City Council to give a rapid approval to the application of Cherry Lane Recreation, Inc. Naturally there should be some conditions placed on that approval. The new parking tot probably should be completed prior to moving the temporary clubhouse to the new site. A time limitation should be placed on completion of the new clubhouse and then the removal of the temporary clubhouse. The City of Meridian owns this land, the City of Meridian owns the golf course. Completion of the permanent clubhouse and parking lot would be a great asset to the Meridian Municipal Meridian City Council Meeting June 15, 1999 Page 6 Cherry Lane Golf Course. An asset also to the surrounding residential subdivisions. I believe time is of the essence and the City Council should not throw up roadblocks or delays, but instead show a decisive effort to get this project approved and completed and behind us. Thank you. Corrie: Thank you, Jim. Any questions of Jim? Bentley: I have none. Corrie: Anyone else? Yes, sir. Shelly: I'm a resident of N. Sea Cove Way 2566 and in my hands here I have a letter that I'm authorized to read from the Lake at Cherry Lane Homeowners Association, Inc. Corrie: Can I get your name one more time? Shelly: James Shelly. I'll give you a copy of this for your records after I'm finished reading it. This was dated June 15th, but Mayor and City Council, City of Meridian, reference construction of the permanent clubhouse at the Cheny Lane Golf Course. Dear Sirs, at a special meeting of the homeowners association held on May 13, 1999 the following motion was made from the floor. Be it resolved that the Lake at Cherry Lane Homeowners Association hereby goes on record as approving the construction of a permanent golf course at the Cherry Lane Golf Course. The motion was unanimously carried. The president of the assoaation was directed to prepare a letter to the Meridian City Council expressing the association's feeling on this matter. The secretary, who is myself, of the association was asked to read the letter into the record at the meeting June 15th, 1999. Now our association right now has approximately 116 to 120 families. There was 80 families that were represented at that association's meeting. Corrie: One question. Okay, you said approval of the golf course clubhouse. Shelly: Yes. Corrie: Thank you. Kingsford: Mr. Mayor, my name is Grant Kingsford. I currently reside at 4304 W. White Ash Drive Meridian. I recognize that things change. I have been gone for three and a half years and the applicant was not called the plaintiff I guess. lt's a little bit frightening for me to be here. Corrie: I had the same concerns, Grant. Meridian City Council Meeting June 15, 1999 Page 7 Rountree: You're always in trouble. Kingsford: I just wanted to make a couple of comments with regard to the golf course having been here since the city took it over in I guess 197$. After the second (inaudible) Cherry Lane Rec. took it over. I was involved with it before that when Mr. Lovan and I were on the golf committee and we received numerous phone calls at city hall that people didn't want the city to operate a golf course and so at that time the Mayor Don Storey said it would be a good idea if we could lease that rascal and so we did have one person that was a little bit interested that never came forward. So Mr. Lovan decided that he would do that to make sure that it worked and I think he had no idea that he would still be trying to operate a nine hole golf course in 1997. In any event we had the opportunity to expand the golf course. It's coming along I think fairly nicely for the limited funds that we put into it, but it's a nice playable golf course. Mr. Lovan also expected as all of us did that at the time that golf course was built that the city would have a clubhouse for it. At the time it was originally conceived Leavett New Pacific built the first nine holes, donated that to the city, and promised that we would receive another nine holes completed and a golf course clubhouse as well. None of that was forthcoming. As a result Mr. Lovan has never been able to operate a clubhouse on the city's property. Now we have that opportunity. Finally the deeds are completed and so forth and I would urge the City Council to move along posthaste to see that that is completed. It's an opportunity that the city has to receive roughly a half million dollar clubhouse at no expense to the city. I didn't have to strong arm Mr. Lovan too hard to get him to agree to that. Just over about a 20 what period beating him rather severely on some holes and losing to him on others, he come to the thinking that it would be a good idea and I certainly think it would as well and hope you guys concur. Thank you. Are there any questions because I do know it all. Corrie: I'm finding, Grant, that Mayors don't know it all. Anyone else would like to testify? Margulieux: My name is Gordon Margulieux and I live at 2040 Interlachen Way. I'm. about 50 feet from the existing temporary clubhouse and actually 1 am in favor of the new clubhouse but I would like to have the Council consider an option or restriction for the new clubhouse. The current clubhouse isn't quite adequate for parties or anything like that. Therefore they don't have a lot of parties. Sometimes they do and sometimes they go late into the night. Sometimes past 12:00. For particular instance now there is an ordinance part of the - I'm trying to think of the name of it but that does limit the time that you can actually be making a lot of noise and it's 11:00 but this is in the middle of a residential area. I've looked at the plans. There are no sound deadening materials they are planning on using. They are planning on raising the clubhouse six feet above the ground. My fence according to my covenants can't be above six feet, but their clubhouse is going to be six feet above the ground. They will have the facilities for banquets, for parties, for things that may make it go late into the night. This is a family Meridian City Council Meeting June 15, 1999 Page 8 subdivision around there. There are kids that go to school. Chaparral is a year round school. Tomorrow morning there will be kids going to Chaparral. If the weather is like it is today and they decide that they want to open the doors to the clubhouse while they have a live band or have a live band maybe not today because it's raining out there, but have a live band out there. They can have it until 11:00. My kids don't stay up on school nights until 11:00 but they would be forced to if the noise was loud enough and in the past it has been. Of course we're only 50 feet. I can throw a golf ball from where the clubhouse is proposed to be to the closest house on Harbor Point and it goes over the top of the lake too so the lake will carry it and I don't about you but I've pulled up next to a number of cars at stop lights where I can hear the music blaring with the windows rolled up because it's not the music you hear, but you hear the beat. And that's what we're going to hear at night at 11:00 and then they don't have to shut off unless I call or somebody else calls and tells them that it's too noisy and I want to file a complaint. That's the only way it will stop because they can stay open until the bar closes and they do have a bar and I've been witness to bar fights outside of the existing clubhouse. Now the clubhouse is going to be open later past the normal operating of the - so I just -what my proposal is and it's a very simple one is that they limit outdoor bands and music past 10:00. Now that's only one hour short of what is already allowed for the sort of noise ordinance that they have right now. That's my proposal and I would like you to think about it. Any questions? Thank you very much. Santi: My name is Ron Santi. I live at 1503 Northgate Avenue. I'm the secretary/treasurer of the Cherry Lane Golf Association. We have approximately 190 members right now, and our men's association has been growing because the golf course is getting a fot better and I feel that the opinion of almost all of these golfers is that we could have a very nice association with the approval of the City Council for the new golf course so our recommendation is that you do approve this conditional use permit. Thank you. Cooper: Good evening. My name is Deleta Cooper. I'm one of the senior members of Cherry Lane Golf Course. I'd like to address this that I have never heard any late parties going on at the golf course. I play there almost every day. I play more games in Idaho than any woman for the last three years. I'm also associated in helping Jennifer and my husband in the junior. We have a great junior program and if you've got people to come tomorrow to support your community you have to support the kids so they won't get in trouble. We keep them very, very busy and they're good kids. I would like you to approve all the bills that are on the agenda tonight for the clubhouse. Thank you. Lovan-Holloway: Mayor, Councilmen, my name is Jennifer Lovan-Holloway. I am the general manager of the Cherry Lane Recreation and I would like it just to be stated on record I'm not sure what the gentleman's name was that was here earlier. It is in our lease agreement with the city that we have to close the golf course at 11:00 so we cannot keep our hours until 2:00. The party that he was referring to it is on public Meridian City Council Meeting June 15, 1999 Page 9 record at the police department that it was shut down at 10:28 so if there is any question to that, it will be on record for you to look at. Thank you. Corrie: Anyone else? Parton: Mayor, Councilmen, I don't have any golf course affiliation here. My name'is Ross Parton. I live at 4219 W. Plumrose here in Meridian. I'm a recent resident here to Meridian and I just wanted to encourage you to approve this application as it's been submitted based on the fact that I consider this a tremendous asset to the city and to the residents of this community. Thank you. Corrie: Anyone else? Johnson: Dick Johnson 9225 Chinden Boulevard. I'm the surveyor and designer on the project. We in earlier testimony stated we have no problems with the conditions as set forth with Planning and Zoning and we want to affirm that. We don't have any problems whatsoever. We'll work with Planning and Zoning in any way and the Council in any way which you require for us to construct this clubhouse, the parking lot and move the temporary clubhouse. And I'm here to answer any questions you may have. Bird: I have none. Johnson: Thank you. Corrie: Anyone else want to testify in favor? Is there anyone here who would like to testify against the conditional use permit? McRae: My name is Russ McRae. I reside at 3757 W. Harbor Point. I haven't been a party to some of the previous proceedings. Is there a time frame set on the construction of the permanent clubhouse? Corrie: That will be discussed tonight. McRae: Okay, in my points I have two concerns. One is that is the utilization of Harbor Point as a feeder for the clubhouse? Harbor Point to my knowledge is not designed as an arterial feeder for the number of parking spaces currently designated in this parking lot and certainly not with the numbers that are designated for the future. I think that's an exceptional and a dangerous toad for strictly a residential driveway in that location. Secondarily, 1 do not oppose this project. I simply ask for reason to take place within it. The second component of that being the timely construction of a permanent clubhouse and maybe first and foremost that no temporary clubhouse be allowed until a permanent one is set. And the current clubhouse was a temporary clubhouse which as we've Meridian City Council Meeting June 15, 1999 Page 10 heard tonight is a 21 year project and I think what we need to see is a permanent site there not another 21 years of temporary clubhouse. Corrie: One question I have. What are they going to do for six months while there's construction going on? I don't think that a pickup with a bathroom in the back end of it and a cash register is going to make it and there's a lot of people who have paid money to play out there and we need something. McRae: They have a clubhouse now. That will do. Corrie: All right. McRae: I mean you've already got a clubhouse that servicing. Let them do 18 holes with this clubhouse then that apparently met with your approval previously. I don't understand your objection. Bentley: The problem is with a temporary clubhouse, there's construction going on. That land doesn't belong to the city. It belongs to Steiner and they're ready to build on that lot is why the temporary clubhouse needs to be moved. McRae: Well that would appear to be a timing problem. But not one to go on the backs of approving a project with an untimely time frame in itself. I don't think that's for us to just do another bandage on what needs to accomplish. Bird: I think in the Planning and Zoning Recommendation on 1.20, which they have agreed to go to, the temporary clubhouse shall be in use for a period not to exceed six months. So the existing one would only be moved down there for six months and at that time the new one would be up and running. McRae: Thank you, Mr. Bird and that's why I asked the question initially and I didn't receive an answer. You didn't tell me it was not going to be another 21 years. Corrie: I'm sorry I misunderstood you. McRae: So I certainly withdraw my concern about that now knowing this piece of data. But yes a timely construction which is required of any other building built within the city would seem to be prudent. Any other questions? I do have a very genuine concern about Harbor Point being used, because that would be used from several different traffic patterns I feel in the current design and it's not designed to handle that kind of traffic. People find a shortcut to some place and then that's it. Corrie: Thank you. Anyone else? Meridian City Council Meeting June 15, 1999 Page 11 Gasaway: My name is Ellen Gasaway. I live at 1950 Incline Way and I just have a question because I was at .Planning and Zoning's and they said six months, but 1 thought that two of those months was for this approval that we're having like tonight and that the clubhouse would be built in four months. Am I wrong on that? Corrie: Well actually I think if we gave them six months, it would probably be until January 1st. That would be the construction time. What the engineers have told us it takes about 30 days for concrete to set and be ready to do. The rest of it can go up pretty fast. They do have the different structural, mechanical, electrical and landscape engineers that are going to be following the procedures here and that was one of my main thoughts was I want to make sure of the protection of the golf course and also the houses around and also for Wally to make sure that everything is correct and as far as mechanical and electrical and all that by the engineering so I'm sure they will set a limit on how long the clubhouse. I can't say, I don't vote, but I think that that's probably what it would come out at. Gasaway: Will there also be some kind of a penalty clause in there that if it's not completed? Come: It's possible. Again I can't get in their heads, but they may. Gasaway: l'd like to see that aspect because since 1982 we've had a temporary and l think it's long past - 20 years. Thank you. Corrie: Anyone else? Yost: My name is Eva Gay Yost and 1 reside at 2638 N. Sea Cove Way. One of the things that I think that everybody has neglected to mention because we're fairly new in this area. We've lived here less than two years. We're from Boise and so we didn't really know too much about the golf course or what had gone on here, but I've heard so many people talk about this 21 year lapse that Wally should have had this clubhouse built. I've read some minutes from 1978 where Wally was asked a specific question, how long do you think it would be following the completion of the second nine holes of the golf course before you would have the clubhouse completed and he said very plainly within two years. That will be September of 1999. Now I think we're pretty close on that time frame and I don't think that we need to expect that it's going to be another 21 years before the clubhouse is finished. There are some things that have to be gone through here obviously with permits and so forth, but my theory is let's get on with it, let's get going and not just sit here and nit pick about what should have happened 21 years ago. It would be very difficult to justify a clubhouse and all the amenities with a nine hole golf course. It's very difficult. The other thing about Harbor Point is that Talamore is suppose to be the entrance into the golf course. It's been designed and set up that way. There are no houses facing Talamore and I don't know Meridian City Council Meeting June 15, 1999 Page 12 what the concern is so much about Harbor Point because Harbor Point is the same size as Interlachen and Interlachen has entertained this traffic for the last how ever many years it's been there, so that seems to have worked out just fine. So the way that it is set up with Black Cat and Talamore as being the designed entrance to the golf course and my understanding was that the sign would indicate that then I don't think that all the traffic is going to come from Ten Mile through Harbor Point to get to the golf course because it's not going to be indicated that way, and a lot of people are not going to know how to wind their way through the subdivision anyhow and one last thing I just wanted to mention about the petitions that were turned in. There were approximately 266 names on those petitions and I would appreciate it if that number would be entered into the record. Bird: Just did. Cowie: Any questions? Thank you. Any other comments? I want to thank everybody for keeping it under three minutes. You're a wonderful group. Mr. Yost, do you want to have anything to say on the as far as the one we had the utilization of Harbor Point as a feeder for cars as adequate of what was just said by - is that your husband? See, Grant, we don't know everything and I wasn't about to marry you here in this chamber tonight. Mr. Yost. Yost: Mr. Mayor, Councilmen, I defer to my wife. Cowie: Good point. Yost: Mr. Mayor and Councilmen, one issue that could be clarified. I stated previously that financial arrangements had been secured and we will provide a six months letter of credit for the complete construction costs so that this will be and we'll forfeit that if that is not done, so we will secure -we'll post a letter of credit for the entire construction amount. Financing has been secured. Cowie: Thank you. Bird: I got one question. You have no problem with the six months? And when does the six months start? If it takes six weeks to get through our planning to get a permit. Yost: Mr. Mayor, Councilmen, I'll trust your fairness on this issue. At the best, our folks are telling us they can construct the facility in four months. If it takes two months for you to give us a final permits to go ahead, it's cutting i# pretty close, we'll trust on your fairness on that thing. We think we can complete it in six months. We'd like to have it finished by the first of the year. At least four months for the construction of the facility. Meridian City Council Meeting June 15, 1999 Page 13 Corrie: I think probably one of the things that would speed it up a lot is to make sure all those plans get into the building department and I think with the different engineering companies it's going to be a lot faster and a lot of questions are going to be taken care of here, so the quicker they get into the building department and approved then they can go ahead with the building on that. Anybody else questions? At this point having a public hearing, I'll entertain a motion if you would like. Mr. Rountree? Rountree: I have some questions for staff. Shari, on the Planning and Zoning Recommendations item 1.20, it's been mentioned here tonight that clause to me is unclear. I've worked for the last two years with Wally on issues that are unclear, trying to get them resolved with developers and the city and I think we've made some head way but I think he needs some more dumped on him. The period of six months. We need to establish when that starts. Was there -and there was considerable discussion with Planning and Zoning. Does staff have a recommendation of when the timing might start the countdown on this six months? Stiles: Well I think with Council's action tonight, if they have a favorable recommendation, the Findings would need to be prepared. I would that with your action tonight, they could immediately get those plans ready to be submitted or hopefully they could do that within the three weeks it will be before the Findings are prepared and maybe we should make it more specific that plans be submitted for building permit within three weeks. Is that workable? (Inaudible) Johnson: I can't speak for the other engineers that were retained to do the structural, mechanical and electrical. I do know a couple of them said it would be two to three weeks out before they would be in full operation on the project. They wanted time to review the plans that we've been given by the architect and by my design plans and then they would proceed on. It may take them (End of Tape) Johnson: ...you know to have everything in place to turn into you as far as the actual building plans on the clubhouse. As far as on the temporary structure, moving it over, the parking lot, a couple of weeks is more than ample time for that. Bird: Mr. Mayor would you have him identify himself for the record this time. Johnson: Dick Johnson. Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, I think then we would ask them to get the plans in within one month from today and maybe give them a total of seven months for the permanent structure to be complete. That would a total of eight months, but maybe it would a - I Meridian City Council Meeting June 15, 1999 Page 15 Stiles: I would hope that the half million dollars would guarantee that. The quotes that I did see and what I added up was roughly $300,000. That didn't include landscaping and irrigation system or windows, but it did include restaurant equipment, sprinklers, framing, roofing, the parking lot. Johnson: If I may, we're waiting on an appraisal right now which will establish the value of the structure. Rountree: Okay, thanks. Stiles: That would be great. Rountree: Shari, you also had a comment about sidewalks. Would you direct me to the staff comment, is it staff comment number 8 that you wanted reinserted in the recommendations of P & Z? Stiles: Under general, it would be under 8. We got a little more specific under site specific comments number 7. Those roadways are not built at this time. I'm a little concerned also that we don't have any comments from Ada County Highway District, but I would think in order to complete the parking lot satisfactorily they should have the sidewalks completed at the same time. Johnson: If I may again, we have met with Ada County Highway District in session, have been approved. The parking lot itself has been approved. The sidewalks were a portion of an additional subdivision going in and at that time, they said we would not be putting in the sidewalks. The subdivision I believe it's number eight would be responsible for that. Stiles: I don't believe that will be completed yet this year. It shows existing streetlights. l was wondering - Johnson: Talamore is constructed. Stiles: It's all totally constructed with curb, gutter sidewalk. Johnson: Curb, gutter, sidewalk, island streetlights, everything. Stiles: So Harbor Point Drive is the only side - Johnson: Is the side in question. Stiles: Okay. And it would be part of Lakes at Cherry Lane No. 8. There is a little bit of a hang up on that project. I'm not sure when that will be completed. I guess if Ada Meridian City Council Meefing June 15, 1999 Page 16 County Highway District thinks you can complete the parking lot and you can complete the landscaping to our satisfaction without a sidewalk, I think that would be a little difficult to do though. Johnson: Well if we have to do it, we will do it. Stiles: Okay sounds good. Johnson: We have met with the developer and he has told us that we can enter into an agreement with him if we are required to do that. We would be reimbursed. Stiles: Great. Johnson: It's your pleasure. Rountree: Thank you Shari. Johnson: I do have one question if I may and that's getting back to tonight. Should we get approval, when can we submit and start on the parking lot and move the temporary clubhouse? Corrie: Welt we have to do Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law yet to approve those, but - Stiles: I would think they could start on getting those calculations done. At least get them in the cue so that Brad Watson can review your drainage. How soon can the Land Group get their landscape plan completed? Johnson: We're hoping within a week on that. As far as the stuff for Brad, it's sitting on the desk so it's ready to go. Stiles: Okay, so basically you just need the landscape plan and the drainage calculations for Brad to be able to review so that you can get started on tha#. Johnson: Correct. Stiles: As soon as you can get it in, we can at least start reviewing it. Johnson: Thank you. Rountree: That's it Mr. Mayor, thank you. Corrie: Any questions, comments? Meridian City Council Meeting June 15, 1999 Page 17 Bird: I have none. Corrie: All right, I'll entertain a motion to close the public hearing. Bentley: So moved. Rountree: Second. Corrie: Motion made and second to close the public hearing. All those in favor of the motion say aye. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Corrie: Discussion? Rountree: Mr. Mayor, given the testimony and the unclear issues as it relates to the move, the timing of the move, and the amount of potential guarantee for the completion of that move, and staffs concern for the sidewalk, I would suggest some modifications to the conditions that Planning and Zoning provided and those would be adding staff comments specific comment number 7 into the recommendations which would be 1.34 and modifying the recommendation 1.20 with language to the effect that the temporary clubhouse shall be used for a period not to exceed - I'm just going to put in seven months for discussion from the date of the physical moving of the current temporary clubhouse. Prior to moving the temporary clubhouse, a letter of credit or cash in the amount of the appraised value of the new clubhouse will be received by the City of Meridian as a guarantee for completion of the permanent clubhouse and parking lot. I have no other suggestions in terms of corrections or additions. Bird: Mr. Mayor, Charlie, I don't agree with the appraised value because t don't think anybody is going to go out and give them an appraisal on it. Rountree: It's my understanding from Mr. Johnson that they're in the process of getting an appraisal on the - Bird: An appraised value or a cost estimate? (Inaudible) Corrie: Hang on folks. We got a dilemma here. Do you want -we'll have to reopen the public hearing to hear any more testimony? Can you agree on something between your Council? Meridian City Council Meeting June 15, 1999 Page 18 Bird: How are we going to you know appraised value means one of us are going to hire an appraiser to go out and appraise it before we get a - Rountree: How do you get financing on something like this without - Bird: Well the financing don't have nothing to do with the appraisal. 1 mean if they got the financing. They don't have to have an appraisal. They got a cost estimate, but l don't think they have an official appraisal. Rountree: Cost of construction. Bird: Yeah. I just think we - Rountree: Give me a better word. Bird: I'm trying to think of one, Charlie. I don't like appraisal, but - Rountree: Mr. Mayor maybe Mr. Gigray has some verbiage that would hold up in court. Gigray: Given the evidence.presented at the hearing which you have to go from, I mean there was a figure of a half million and I didn't hear any objection on the part of the applicant to that figure which the staff felt I think covered what they saw in the information that they had. I guess you could leave it nebulous that it would be subject to an amount subject to the approval of the Planning and Zoning Administrator and then I guess if they get a hiatus over whether that approval is appropriate or not, then the applicant could come back to the City Council and seek an amendment of that condition. I think you could go either of those two ways. Rountree: Mr. Mayor, Mr. Bird, in the amount not to exceed one half million dollars. Bird: That's fine with me. Corrie: That puts a figure to it. Any other comments on the changes or additions to the recommendation of the Planning and Zoning? Gigray: Mr. Mayor just a point of question. Councilman Rountree with your proposal, would we substitute staff comment number 7 for the recommendation of Planning and Zoning at 1.8 because it references a five foot sidewalk. Rountree: It references the sidewalk, excuse me Mr. Mayor. It references the sidewalk but does not name the street specifically as number 7 does, so - Gigray: Right with your permission I'll probably put those together. Meridian City Counal Meeting June 15, 1999 Page 19 Rountree: That would be fine. Corrie: Any further discussion? Hearing, none, I'll entertain a motion to have the attorney draw up the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law. Anderson: So moved. Bird: Second. Corrie: It's been moved by Mr. Anderson second by Mr. Bird to have the attorney draw up the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law and bring them back to us on July 6`n. We're at the 15`n, and then July 6tn. Any further discussion? Rountree: Mr. Rountree, am I to assume that that motion includes the suggested changes that were discussed? Okay, thank you. Bird: Mr. Mayor, will this allow them to move the temporary over there by the 30tn~ Gigray: Point of information. In light of Councilman Bird's question, it would be my advice that one of the purposes for which we sought the conditional use permit in light of the history of this particular facility and the need to get a conditional use permit under existing ordinances part of that is to allow the moving of this temporary structure so my advice to the Council would be no, they could not move that until an order was signed granting the permit. If this is a major problem then the Council should consider having a special meeting to adopt those Findings. We can prepare them for you for your consideration at an earlier meeting, but I wouldn't recommend that be allowed until an order was signed. Bird: That's what I wanted to clear up. Corrie: Mr. Rountree when are you going to have your planning meeting? We could have a special meeting first and then if you wanted to on that combine the two of them. Rountree: We could do it on the 22"x. That would be the normal time. Bentley: Mr. Mayor, I believe both myself and I think Mr. Anderson are out of town that whole week. You'll be back? Okay, 1'll be gone. Rountree: We can do it on the 22"d Bird: We need to do it early enough to give them time to get the arrangements made to get that moved out. That isn't an overnight move. Meridian City Council Meeting June 15, 1999 Page 20 Corrie: Based on Mr. Johnson's reply here, they have to be at least by the 30th so if we had it on the meeting on the 22"d and approved the Findings of Facts that would give them a week and a day. I can't open the public hearing, but does that sound okay? I mean it's kind of stupid what I'm asking you, but - Bird: Mr. Mayor, let me ask a question. Is there any way that we can approve the removal of the temporary at this meeting without doing that? I think there is. I don't know how, but I think there is. Rountree: We're always open for a good story Mr. Bird. Corrie: I know the Council can do just about anything they want to within reason and the law, but is there a way we can do that? Gigray: Mr. Mayor and members of the Council my advice would be not to allow it until the order is signed because as part and parcel of the whole process and I think you impune your own process by doing it without those steps. That's my advice. Now whether you follow it or not will be up to you. My suggestion is also if there is a need, we will try to accommodate the need by preparing these Findings as soon as possible and if you wanted to have a special meeting even sooner than the 22"x, we would try to do that for you. Corrie: Well with all the activity with Dairy Days going on, it would be a Monday or a Tuesday so one day I don't think is going to make a big difference there. The testimony is they can do it. Glenn will be gone. You're going to be gone? Well that takes care of that. Gigray: We11 my advice also is that they could take whatever necessary steps they need in the meantime and the staff could process whatever other permits knowing that these findings will be signed so everything is in place by the 22"d. But we can have them ready for you by the 22"x. Rountree: Is it possible to have the order as it relates to the move by tomorrow? Gigray: It's all together so it's all going to be done atone point. Bentley: I think what he's asking is what are you doing tonight? Gigray: You set the meting. We just have to meet your request. Bird: Does it all have to be under one order? Gigray: It's more work - it will all be done in one - Meridian City Council Meeting June 15, 1999 Page 21 Rountree: Can we meet the notice requirements? Gigray: Well you're going to have to call a special meeting and then we're under a 24 hour notice provision under the open meeting law. Bird: Mr. Mayor, if we had it the 22""', there's no reason then they can't be getfing ready to go and move in. When we pass it the 22"x, what do they have to do then to be allowed to move the temporary? Anything from Planning and Zoning? Stiles: Wasn't the parking lot going to be built first? Bird: Yes. Stiles: Well they won't have that done by the 22"d Bird: You're right. Forgot about the parking lot. Corrie: Okay, I've been told we need to maybe open up the hearing once more just for a couple of comments and I think that that's a pretty good idea, so if I could have a motion to do that. Bird: I pull my second. Bentley: We need to remove the - Corrie: We need to remove the motion, right? Bird: I remove my second. Corrie: Okay motion has been removed. The second (inaudible). Rountree: Mr. Mayor, I move that we reopen the hearing for item number 1. Bentley: Second. Corrie: Motion made and second that we reopen the hearing for comments on item number one. Any further comments? All in favor say aye. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Corrie: For clarification who wants to be first on this? Dick? Meridian City Council Meeting June 15, 1999 Page 22 Johnson: My name is Dick Johnson. I heard something about the 22"d. It will be fine. Cowie: 22"d, the parking lot and the whole thing? Johnson: We'll certainly be trying. That's a lot of work between now and then. Cowie: We want it done right. Johnson: Right, it's almost impossible. We need to get our plans approved through Public Works. I can't swear that the -promise you that the landscape plan would be done by that time, but the landscape is part of the parking lot and you know we will have landscape according to the city's wishes. It's going to be really tough to get a parking lot in there, the underground in and move the structure. Bentley: Mr. Mayor, question for Shari. Your comments on what Mr. Johnson has to say. Stiles: I'm sorry Mr. Campbell was interrupting my listening. Johnson: I said I'd be Superman. Stiles: The 22"~ would be super? Johnson: I don't feel that it will work, but we will certainly try to accomplish this on tha# schedule. That's not practical. Cowie: I don't think it's going to get through in time. I really don't. Stiles: Obviously you're not going to be able to move it by the 22`"'. Right? Bird: No, they got until the 30th. Just a second. Stiles: The parking lot is not going to be constructed. The parking lot will take two weeks to construct. Johnson: Once we have approval, we're expecting a week yes from the time we start our underground footing and the storm drainage system and get the sleeves in under the driveways and get leveling courses on. First we have to get the engineer's approval. Bird: Mr. Mayor, -- Meridian City Council Meeting June 15, 1999 Page 23 Corrie: Dick can I have you -this is not very good, but can I have you step aside just a second. I think we might have something here that you have to tell us Doug. Campbell: I really didn't want to do this, but here I am. I think what we need - Bird: Identify yourself. Campbell: My name is Doug Campbell, address 4085 W. Ustick, Meridian, 83642. I think where we have to direct this thing is have the Council go ahead and have that special meeting on the 22"d so we have the order to when the parking lot is completed, if it's the 1st, the 2`~, the 3`~, we can move it. We're flexible. We can - we don't have to say Wally we're going to tear down the trailer on the 30th, but we want to go ahead and get the 22"d get the approval and then we'll start scheduling and get this trailer and like I say it's probably going to take a week or two weeks to get approval and probably two weeks to build the parking lot. At least we're taking the right direction and we're not waiting until the facts and findings are approved on the 6th and then start it from there. At least this thing is working simultaneously. Corrie: As long as it's done right is what I think we're concerned about. Everybody here is concerned that it's done right. Campbell: I'm not hiring, Steiner is not, but Wally will be hiring the contractors and put in specifications. Corrie: Okay. Let me ask a ques#ion to Council. Is everybody but Glenn going to be here the 22"x? Bird: Yes. Corrie: Okay so we will have a quorum then. Bird: I've got a question for Gary. On the parking lot Gary, why can't they start the underground and stuff now if you can approve the thing before the 22nd? If Brad can get the plans approved if the plans have been turned in, submitted, complete? (Inaudible) Bird: I understood they were. Have the plans not been turned in? I understood from Mr. Johnson they had. Smith: Councilman, I don't know. Meridian City Council Meeting June 15, 1999 Page 24 Johnson: Preliminary plans are turned in, the final draft was presented to him today about 3:00. They are still stamped preliminary until after this meeting at which time we would take the preliminary stamp and sign seal them by the engineer and deliver them sometime tomorrow morning. Bird: Can some of the preliminary work be done for the underground and stuff on that? Smith: By preliminary I don't know what you mean. Bird: I don't either. No, what I mean is can't you start putting the underground drainage and stuff in, getting the compaction down and stuff tike that? _ _ __ smith: That's pert of the plans. I mean that's going to be part of the approval is the sizing of the~drair~age beds and sizing of the piping and so forth. That's part of the approvals... _ Bird: It's the same plans we have then which we are approving now. All we're asking for is Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law and that's what we're going to pass, but the-plans aren't going to change. They've met all this staff things already so why can't you start doing the preliminary work out there if the plans meet our Public Works specifications? Smith: Well I guess as soon as we can review the plans, yes. Bird: Okay. Corrie: But we don't have the plans in yet. Bird: You will have them tomorrow morning. Johnson: We will have them tomorrow morning. I've been working with Brad all along on this. We gave him what he and I think are the final draft plans today, so that we can move along on this. According to Brad, it's not going to be a long time out before he gets them approved. It could be you know tomorrow afternoon. All the calculations ~'~ have been done, checked, everything over the period of the last two or three, four weeks. Corrie: It sounds like we could go ahead and do it the 22"d Council have a special meeting, and with what Mr. Campbell said they can go a little longer whatever the case may be and that will still give you time to do your parking lot. That gives our staff same time. I don't want to shove it down their throat. So it's going to be done right. I'm sure everybody wants it done right so is that all right Gary I mean as long as you have the time. Meridian City Council Meeting June 15, 1999 Page 25 Smith: We can move ahead as fast as we can on the drainage part, but we're still going to have to have a completed site plan with the landscaping and everything else that's required for that. Whatever Shari's requirements are is going to have to be part of the site plan approval. I guess they could start on the subsurface works as soon as we have it approved, as soon as approve what they have. t mean I understand the necessity for moving as fast as we can. But it always seems like every time we move fast, we get tripped up some place. We'll process it as quick as we can. Corrie: Was there anybody else that had information for us that wanted to -Wally you have anything you want to say I mean you don't have to, but I think we're going on the right road here and getting things done. We're just trying to find out the dates and get everything put together with staff. Thank you. Bentley: I move we close the public hearing. Bird: I second it. Corrie: Motion made and second to close the public hearing, all in favor say aye. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Corrie: Now, do we want to have that meeting the 22"d then and go ahead with that? Okay, 1'll entertain a motion. Bird: Are you going to add that to your existing motion? Mr. Anderson? (tnaudibfe) Rountree: Mr. Mayor I move that we instruct the city attorney to prepare Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law and Order of Decision to include the recommendations from the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission with changes on item 1.20 as discussed previously and the combining of staff's specific comment 7 with item 1.8, and that upon completion of the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law that the city hold a special meeting for consideration of those on June 22"d at 7:30 p.m. Bird: Second. Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Rountree and second by Mr. Bird to have the attorney draw up the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law with the recommendations and changes as stated in the discussion and hold a special meeting to June 22"d at 7:30 p.m. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion say aye. Meridian City Council Meeting June 15, 1999 Page 26 MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Corrie: So we'll be back the 22"d at 7:30 and we'll sign the rest of it. Bentley: Mr. Mayor I move we take a ten minute break. Bird: I second that. Corrie: Motion made and second to break. All those in favor say aye. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. (TEN MINUTE RECESS WAS TAKEN) 1. TABLED 611/199: FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW: REQUEST FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A CHILDCARE FACILITY LICENSED FOR 50 CHILDREN BY KATHLEEN ~ WENDELL LAWRENCE - SOUTH OF PINE STREET, NORTH OF HWY 30/FRANKLIN ROAD, ON CINDER ROAD: Berg: Mr. Mayor and members of the Council the development agreement was signed and recorded. The annexation ordinance was put in the paper and sent to the appropriate agencies and this is the last step for the conditional use to be approved. Corrie: Okay, thank you. Council, you have the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for the conditional use permit. Rountree: Mr. Mayor I move that we approve the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law and Order of Decision approving the conditional use permit. Bird: Second. Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Rountree second by Mr. Bird to approve the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for this request. Any further discussion? Hearing none, roll call vote. ROLL CALL VOTE: ROUNTREE, YEA. ANDERSON, YEA. BENTLEY, YEA. BIRD, YEA. MOTION CARRIED: ALL YEAS. 2. TABLED 6/1/99: DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT FOR HARTFORD SUBDIVISION: