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HomeMy WebLinkAbout03Jun04 Golf Course Committee Mins• • GOLF COURSE COMMITTEE Wednesday, June 4, 2003 at 6:OID pm Mayor's Conference Room Meridian City Ha// Attena-onoce: X Wo/t Morrow _~ Chor/ie Rountree X ~t'eith Bird ~ JoAnn But/er ~ Tom Funkhouser X Shoron 6o//ivon ~ Jim Johnson ~ Jennifer Lovon-Ho/%woy D Dovid Moe Creg Stee% ~ Brod Wotson 1C E/rby Huff ~_ Wi// Ber,~g Golf Course Committee June 4. 2003 The Golf Course Committee Meeting was called to order at 6:00 p.m. Wednesday, June 4t" , 2003, by Chairman Walt Morrow Members Present: Jim Johnson, Jennifer Lovan-Holloway, Brad Watson, Elroy Huff, Sharon Gallivan, Joann Butler, Keith Bird, Charlie Roundtree, Tom Funkhouser, Creg Steele, Walt Morrow and Will Berg. Members Absent: David Moe. Guest: Nancy Link. Morrow: Okay we are going to open our meeting for June 4t". It's a comeback meeting because our meeting on the 21St was cancelled, didn't have enough folk with information and we had some other conflict with people being out of town primarily me. And so we cancelled that particular meeting. So all of you that were at our prior meeting to that will be familiar with where we are. We got some minutes, that are pretty good minutes as usual we've got some inaudibles though. So all of you should have your copies of minutes and you've done the best you could in terms of being able to read them. Jennifer. Lovan-Holloway: I didn't get a set. Morrow: No minutes. Butler: Walt. Morrow: Yes ma'am. Butler: Could I ask you? I guess the golf course committee was discussed last night at the City Council and it seemed like their just looking at it - it looks like maybe there's some confusion on what the committee is. Maybe if you could restate what you think is a committee and Keith maybe you could help us out is what the City Council -what we think the City Council's charge to us is. Morrow: Okay I would be more then happy to do that. There were a couple of (inaudible) comments that I wanted to make with respect to the committee. At any rate I'm not familiar what the Council may have discussed last night I did have a conversation with the head of the Parks Department and based on his conversation with the City Attorney it was his understanding that we were an oversight committee. I indicated to him that we were not an oversight committee that we were a special function committee that we were here strictly to determine what type of physical improvements that it would take to the golf course to bring it to whatever the standard might be. With respect - as Tom explained with the USGA standard is not a standard that's cast in stone for each golf course its Golf Course Committee June 4, 2003 Page 2 of 22 something that makes a golf course more playable. Our charge to the City Council, from my understanding being a special purpose committee is simply to determine what type of physical improvements can be made to the golf course, the approximate costs of those improvements, the recommend ways of maybe financing those costs and at that point in time then we present our report to the City Council and the Mayor and the Council can determine what standard they want that golf course to be and how to pay for that standard. The purpose of this committee is not to assign any type of blame with respect to how the golf course is gotten to where it is. We are not in my opinion we are not to look at any one individual as being responsible or not responsible. From the historical standpoint were all familiar about how the golf course evolved into the City of Meridian. We are also familiar with the fact that it was supposed to be a 18 hole golf course with respect to the lease and the issues with the lease and that there were certain amenities and certain standards that folk wanted to have of which I don't find any listing of standards its always referred to the USGA standards. The USGA being -standards being subjective in my opinion as rather then objective. It seems to me that further supports my position that we are simply here to be a fact finding group and present those facts to the City Council and to the Mayor. And then the Mayor and City Council can make a decision as to the standards they want to set for the golf course. Fund those standards and then hold the current operators or any operators in the future to whatever that set of standards might be. It seems unreasonable to me to expect a set of standards without the physical plan to do it. It also isn't fair to me that over the years that everybody has done the very best they could with what limited resources and limited facilities that they had to make the golf course work and work as well as it can. And I think the expansion of the new nine are given the parameters of funding and other political issues was extremely well done. Many of the issues that were discussed in our first two meetings were issues that most of us that participated in that were unaware of. Needless to say those are part of the issues that we are discussing now. So having said that that's all I see the committee's function here. If the Mayor and Council want some different function out of this committee then they need to advise us of that and given that then we will take a look at ourselves and decide whether we want to do that away or whether we would rather have somebody else do it and pass it on from there. Johnson: Well let me ask JoAnn some (inaudible) that the City Council discussed last night and what they see has the purpose of the committee then. Butler: I'm not really sure, maybe Keith could help. It seemed like they were confused, just confused about what the function was that the committee does and I thought that time we met when Keith wasn't there I think Tammy when she roped you two into co cheering this I thought it was pretty clear but -and so I was kind of surprised to see that they seemed to be confused. Is that how it seemed to you Keith? Golf Course Committee June 4, 2003 Page 3 of 22 Bird: Not being at the original one you know I don't know what they were. thought it was an ADHOC, it isn't an appointed committee and that's what I kind of thought. I thought the purpose of this committee was just like Walt had stated and that's what was brought to me and I was asked if I could sit on it -just sitting on the thing and I said yeah because -and (inaudible) an advisory committee that's going to come back with some ideas and we've got to determine as a deal as a Council and Mayor of what we are going to do and how we are going to do it and if we are going to do it or what we are going to do, so. Butler: Okay. Bird: And that's the way I understood it and I thought that its and I thought that's what the committee was shooting for myself, that's the way I understood it. I don't know Will was in on probably more of the discussion then I was (inaudible) real formal discussion. Butler: I guess Will's (inaudible) on the same memo and I was just concerned that maybe the Council was confused but if you don't think so. Bird: I don't think so, I don't think they are. Butler: Okay. Bird: I know the Mayor and (inaudible) got the same (inaudible) as we do this committee is formed. Morrow: Any other questions? Charlie we just had barley started. Roundtree: On that discussion it seems to me that there is some question (inaudible) move it out so Will can get it recorded but -and I, do the Council get our meetings (inaudible) if they did they saw what we think we are about and if they (inaudible) or was this in question. Butler: Actually that is a question. Does the Council get the minutes too Will so they see over time where we are going? Bird: I'm the only one who gets them. Butler: Oh okay. You are the (inaudible) just let them know. Bird: I'm the (inaudible) it's a committee and you know we're going to have to (inaudible). Roundtree: Maybe we could have Keith verify with the Council (inaudible). Golf Course Committee June 4, 2003 Page 4 of 22 Bird: I think we did Charlie last night, I think it was pretty well (inaudible). I think everybody understood Charlie. Steele: Oh. I want to bring up maybe a little bit different point. I talked to Doug the Parks Director the other day and he said there has been a lot of complaints on the golf course and an extreme amount of complaints to him. He didn't say how many. But he brought up the issue of basically it was the dandelions. And I don't know Keith, he said that the Mayor said no loaning of equipment and I didn't know where that came from because you know we talked about it three weeks ago and as a group and you were with us on that same page as it was find to share equipment and I was kind of wondering why the Mayor all of a sudden said no and maybe you know I don't know. Bird: I agree with you. I think this is something that the lawyers need to look into. This is -you got a contract with the city and Cherry Lane and there were certain things that were said that is each persons responsibility. Steele: Right. Butler: Are we talking about equipment? You know (inaudible). Bird: Yeah we are talking about equipment JoAnn. Morrow: I think I can answer that because I met specifically with the Mayor and had that discussion concerning the use of equipment. And the issues from his perspective were two or three. My discussion with him is that we and Western Ada Recreation and the golf course do is somehow we got a boat that apparently came about shortly after (inaudible) boat from the ARC, I don't know. But the issue is is that we use it to clean our ponds and the golf course uses it to clean their pond, its been going back and forth forever. What we (inaudible) subdivision the golf course folk that operate it are not. Mayor Corrie's added two ideas and it's a well made point a couple is that one is that the sprayer that the city parks department has is a publicly funded, publicly owned piece of equipment. What we talked about at our last meeting was the ability of folk to trade equipment back and forth. Without and it appears to me that in following up on his point without agreements and liability issues and those kinds of things back and forth were not going to be able to trade equipment you know back and forth. I've seen the sprayer that the city has, its warehoused in the old fire station a real spendy piece of equipment. His point was also well made that the operator of the equipment spent time in school in learning how to operate it and I agree with that also. It seems to me that if we are going to be able to trade recognizing that in today's world its widely different then it was ten years ago. That we get in place agreements that allow that to happen and the Council would have to approve that. So the short term solution to the problem in my discussion with him was is for the golf course to - it is clearly a maintenance issue -but for the golf course to talk to the Ada County Weed and Pest Control and see if they Golf Course Committee June 4, 2003 Page 5 of 22 still will come out and spray. You used to be able to call them up and have them spray property for you. I don't know if they can still do that at one point you could actually rent sprayers from them. They got out of that business because it was a potential liability. I don't know whether they will do private property or not that is a question that would have to be asked. Lovan-Holloway: Actually they sprayed a couple times last fall for us. Morrow: Okay so they still do that. So that's an avenue that in the short term would have to be called up. I am one of those folk that strongly believes that if equipment sits around more then 60 percent of the time then it's not worth owning. But that doesn't mean that the city shares my opinion. So. Butler: On the other issue, and I will look into the lease and what not but from my gut that (inaudible) although you are a tenant and a private organization it's a municipal golf course and its part of the whole parks system for the city. So I would imagine, I can appreciate the concept of having qualified people operate the equipment and possible liability issues being addressed but it would seem that from the idea of what we were talking before about not everybody not having their own set of toys that it makes a lot of sense and since it is municipal property I think you ought to address that -things like that will help cure a lot of the ills in you know that face us as a municipality and the golf course is part of a municipality. So then I guess I will address that with the attorney and bring (inaudible) its important. Bird: (Inaudible) something was made on the deal and you know it involves was very fair with (inaudible) until we have a policy in place. I agree I mean I don't see why we have half of the equipment we have in the city anyway, in any of our departments. Half of the time you use 100 hours and you can rent it for that and then it sits all year so you know its something that we got to look at within our system here. Steele: I didn't know because the last I heard they said it was okay for Cherry Lane to use they just had to get somebody trained to use it so and then I heard that from Doug and it kind of caught me by surprise. Morrow: And me likewise. That's why I talked with Bob about it and when I talked with Doug concerning the very issue with respect he thought that we were overseeing the people that were complaining about dandelions or whatever should call us. I indicated to him that was not our function at all and that we were in the business of only looking at capital improvements and standards for the golf course and nothing further. Butler: And because I wasn't there I don't know exactly what the conversation was but I just wanted to say this. I think that comment meant decision underscores maybe something that we ought to look at as a committee here Golf Course Committee June 4, 2003 Page 6 of 22 because if the comment was made or and the decision was made because that's a private entity and it sounds like bare bones that the city is not recognizing the golf course, that's exactly what it is a municipal golf course owned by the city and if that's the case here we are as a ADHOC committee with the tenant and city people all trying, people that have long been involved with the parks trying to put together and make a municipal thing matter and if the City Council or the city's fathers and moms think that its not part of a municipality, I think we need to address that. You know as amongst us and with the Council because we are not going to get very far. We are going to get (inaudible) I think unless we see that there's just what it is. Morrow: I don't disagree with that. Maybe let's each one discuss what their thoughts are. Charlie do you want to kick it off? Roundtree: On this particular topic. Morrow: Yes. Roundtree: Where are we going here, out in the weeds? Morrow: Could be without a sprayer yes. Roundtree: To JoAnn's point I think that's probably one of the fundamental issues here is the recognition the little recognition that inspired me basically it still is city property and its still part of the city's infrastructure. I disagree with that concept. If you'll recall the first meeting we had with the city I was trying to get somebody from the city to admit that it was some degree their responsibility and what ever it is to them. So I think it's a problem. Butler: I think it is a problem and I'm concerned about and I'll just say it. watched Jennifer at all spend a lot of time and money to try to pull together information. City spent some money too on the golf course study and what not but if that isn't a theory then a clear recognition of that it is part of the city and maybe the golf course -maybe this committee if the consensus is yeah that it is part of the city and maybe this committee if the consensus us yeah that's exactly what we have here is a large piece of (inaudible) infrastructure make that clear and to the point to the council. I feel like this committee is going to be hamstrunged. I've been working with a bank to try to get somebody to just give us a general overview of bonding and just as an example. And I mean who am I. I'm just a lawyer that keeps telling everybody that well I sit on this committee in Meridian and yeah the Council actually said I could do that and you know I have no real authority and I don't have a financial person from the city kind of sitting in on this and talking about it and out of their good (inaudible) they'll talk to me but I don't think I'm going to get that much farther and I'm beginning to feel that I'm not going to be able to call on the city to say can I bring the best finance guy to come talk to me you know with the bank so that you know you Council get more Golf Course Committee June 4, 2003 Page 7 of 22 information and I guess I'm just voicing maybe a late in frustration, are we spinning our wheels? Morrow: To address that I don't think so. I think that you know our biggest challenge here, and I got to tell you guys the challenge goes back over essentially 24 years in history and the thing in my mind is that we have to get folks convinced that the lease is an operating agreement only. And that the physical plant of the golf course is a municipal golf course and its up to the city to put together the physical plant with a set of standards and the operating agreement that maintains that set of standards for that physical plant. Somehow we have to get through all this bologna that's been going on for 25 years and get folk to understand its no different then anyone of us going out and leasing a house so to speak and when something breaks on the house we look to the landlord to repair that house and then we maintain it in that condition. I mean it's as simple as that in my mind. Somehow we got to get folk off the (inaudible) and get rid of the emotionalism that's involved in this issue from the last 25 years and get folk to understand that it's a city owned facility, they set the standards the lease addresses maintaining those standards and it's a (inaudible) of a deal. Johnson: The problem is though, your analogy is not a very good one because of the historical fact that we the city didn't get involved in setting standards initially and it was left to the operator on his free will to come up with a (inaudible). And your lease agreement doesn't address all those issues. You start talking about city participation and something -you can't do that without talking about revenue sharing and you get to that point you got to (inaudible). Steele: And that brings up another thing because in that same conversation there was talk that the city then would break the lease and have the city take over the golf course because of maintenance issues. So. Butler: I hope your not talking about like recent conversations or anything. Steele: Yeah. Bird: That was never come forward to my knowledge. That was never came forward. Jim hit it right on the head. Morrow: Jennifer. Lovan-Holloway: So as we are talking about - and I don't know and maybe we will because I haven't looked at it. You talk about bringing it up to USGA standards. Bird: (Inaudible). Golf Course Committee June 4, 2003 Page 8 of 22 Lovan-Holloway: Whatever they are. Does it say in the lease that it has to be current USGA standards? Bird: No. Lovan-Holloway: Does it say these standards were set in 1975? Bird: No. Lovan-Holloway: So. Bird: It says acceptable standards. Lovan-Holloway: It says acceptable standards from 1975 or 1978, whenever the lease was done. Morrow: And what we are about here is to give them a menu of things that could be done to the golf course using the USGA report as a basis to start with and if the City Council wishes then to set a set of standards with say having a certain amount of green or whatever that necessitates building a new sprinkler system then they can make that decision. Lovan-Holloway: But on this also is this is not something that maybe we should ask the USGA and say what were your things in 1.978. I think if you are going to bring it up to standards or say that you have to bring it up to current USGA whatever quote standards then maybe - like I said if the lease doesn't say that maybe you need to look at what it said in 1978. What did the USGA have as their standards in 1978? Morrow: Well and I think Jennifer that's part of the issue here is that the city needs to determine what the standards are. In 1978 as far as I'm concerned is immaterial but today is the standards and if they want -they need to tell the operator and themselves what standards they want to see at their own facility. And then if they want standards that are different then what exists everyday then they need to determine how the funds go and how to get those in place. Lovan-Holloway: And I agree with that but like I said there are two issues here. There is one that Cherry Lane Recreation's being held to and there's one that yes we would all everybody on this committee would like to see some things happen out at Cherry Lane, the City Council, the committee, the public. There is two issues here. One is I think though you need to bring to the Council and say when you made this lease agreement in 1978 here is the USGA standards quote quote what they had back then, this is what we have. Morrow: Well I guess my question with that would be is that you know I've never ever seen any documentation that said it had to be USGA standards at any given Golf Course Committee June 4, 2003 Page 9 of 22 point in time and I think that from our perspective we present the report to the Council and say here's all these things that you could do and if that's what you want you need to make a determination of what you want the standards to be and then reduce them to guidelines by which the current operator can accomplish those then. I don't know if there has ever been certainly that I'm familiar with or anything that I would in the history anybody that has set any kind of standards of anything. Lovan-Holloway: That is correct but I'm just going off of you made the lease in 1978 and this is when you set this into policy that the USGA standards is supposed to be up to those from 1978. Johnson: Standards are market driven. And if you have 1978 standards that nobody wants to play on anymore then its irrelevant point. Lovan-Holloway: I'm not arguing that but Ithink - Johnson: I'm not arguing it either I'm just saying I think you have to set standards for courses in the area that are successful that are similar city owned courses or you know Warm Springs or private owned public courses takes like that is kind of your benchmark for standard because they are getting played because of it and I think Cherry Lane is suffering from getting enough play because they are not competitive in that market. Butler: Let me ask this you know how do we -Ithink as a committee we're in (inaudible) telling the Council what the standards are in the sense that -when we put together our wish list that - I don't know if we are done with it that was pretty bare basic stuff I mean it was the bare minimum, water. So I think what we are kind of saying is we need to get it to just the bare minimum. We are not talking about building berms. We are not talking about increasing bunkers, we are not talking about different things like that we are talking about bare basics. So I think in a sense we're setting .that standard - Johnson: There is nothing cosmetic on your list at all, I mean its all functional necessary. Morrow: And once again as I see our goal here is that to present the Council with that menu so that they can develop a list of standards because in my opinion based on what Todd told us last time about I had always had the attitude that USGA probably had a certain set of specs. But those things don't exist so it's all subjective. So the point is in my opinion there has never been a set of standards to have held the golf course to. Even when there was an attempt to Leavitt Nu- Pacific to take the original nine holes back. I got to tell you guys that in my reading of all those minutes that that was also politically driven to some degree on the part of a member of the council of that point in time. And that I don't recall ever one reference to USGA standards or anything else along those lines. So it Golf Course Committee June 4, 2003 Page 10 of 22 seems to me as a committee we got to get by that stuff and then our presentation to the council we charge them but its up to them to set the standards and here is a whole menu of things that you can do depending on what standard that you want to set. If your standard is to have the golf course totally green then you need to invest in a new sprinkler system. If your standard is to have it struggle along like it is now then you need to understand that that's a result of that sprinkler system and the same is with everything else that's there. It's up to them to set the standard, its up to us to suggest to them what things can be done to set a standard of whatever level they may want to set it at. And then at that point in time there has to be an agreement between the operators and the city as to what those standards are going to be and when those inspections are going to be and when the (inaudible). Steele: Okay so we are going to have different basically recommendations that we are going to give. So we are not going to come out with okay we are going to have a green golf course and this is not physically possible for the golf course then to do what it is. Morrow: That is correct. Steele: Okay. Morrow: We are saying if you want a totally green golf course then you've got to invest this kind of money in this sprinkler system and the numbers are one million to one million five. And then they make the decision. Steele: Okay. Morrow: Any other thoughts with respect to that on where we are headed here. Jennifer does that help at all. Lovan-Holloway: It's fine. Morrow: You and I can discuss that later. Okay from that perspective, where we were last time was JoAnn you were going to try and get Bud to give us some information in terms of direction. Butler: And I'll tell you where I got with that. I did talk with Bud this week and we had gotten him the information and he was on track to be coming out here tonight and so I'm sorry he's not but I think if I'm reading into this he indicated to me because of the most recent court decisions internally at his bank, which is Wells Fargo they have been asked to not you know approach this type of financing and that maybe true. But what I think we need to do for the committee and for the council ultimately is still meet with Bud and not here but one or two and not just people from the committee I think we also need somebody like Bill Nichols. Golf Course Committee June 4, 2003 Page 11 of 22 Because this is the issue on -for those of you who don't know that recently Boise-City tried to -what was it the Police Department? Bird: The Police Station. Steele: Police and Library. Butler: Yeah and they tried to get that financed with the judicial conformation and the judge basically said yeah this is ordinary and a necessary expense and you can go ahead and charge for it and you don't have to ask your (inaudible) both that its okay. Well Boise City got turned down and Boise City chose not to appeal that so it's not a Supreme Court decision. So now it's hanging there. And all the municipalities are probably very nervous -you know how can we get financing easily or do we always have to get a vote and I think that the banks are a little skittish about you know diving into spending their time and effort to address it but I think they need to address it for Meridian in the sense of these are the parameters under which we as a financial institution would look at this type of financing. Would they do it just for a golf course? Would they do it under what parameters with the city? Would they say you know we really think that Meridian is on thin ice we might want to look at a bigger park issue and a park plan (inaudible) and see if you can vote that through and make this a part of it and I think that's something that as a committee if we do our kind of wish list and don't give the Council some parameters of how they might finance it. I don't think we are going to get very far. And the reason I mentioned Bill Nichols is because and maybe it's the finance director or the treasurer or somebody that can tell me within the city that we should also have the (inaudible) but going back to Bill, his firm has been involved with several judicial conformation and bond issues and what not and so since he is your attorney I think he would be able to ask some of the hard questions and he also knows Meridian and heck of a lot better then I do in terms of your internal structure and so on. So that's what I would suggest if the committee might get the Council to give us one or two people for a couple hours. You know Bill and the Finance Director to meet with (inaudible). Bird: We did the Police Station that way. Butler: With the judicial conformation? Bird: Yeah. Bird: I think it depends on which judge you get huh? Bird: No we had no problem with it, anybody that goes (inaudible). We just didn't offer to pay back 20 million dollars over 15 years in interest. Butler: You did or you didn't? Golf Course Committee June 4, 2003 Page 12 of 22 Bird: We didn't ,like Boise did. Butler: Oh. Bird: Boise was given 35 million fora 15 million dollar bill. So its how you use your deal. Butler: And I think what you are saying there - Bird: I went to Bud and said I got a crazy idea and he said lets go for it, end of the deal and Nichols took us through. Bill Nichols is very good. Butler: See and what I'm afraid that I maybe running up against is to those that weren't here before. I'm just a committee member, I'm not (inaudible). So I think that if somebody from Meridian is there asking you know I think the response might be lets go for it lets look at it. And so I think we need to do that. Morrow: Okay so that's one avenue and I think we can address that avenue. Let me talk to Bob and see if I can get Bill Nichols and maybe somebody from finance to sit down and have that conversation. So that would explore that avenue. You know another name that pops up that might make some sense to visit with is - Bird: Lloyd (inaudible). Morrow: Lloyd is a good one I haven't thought about at least yet but very candidly the guy that did all the stuff for Nampa, Ken Harwood. Bird: From AIC? Morrow: Yeah. Bird: Yeah he probably - Morrow: He knows a ton of - Bird: He knows a ton of ways - I mean he's a financial genius. Morrow:. Those conversations can take place, let's do that. Bird: You bet they can. Morrow: I think the other thing that came up in the original at least the part of the City Council presentation that I was at at the Police Station was stuff in terms of impact fees was a possible source of funds. LID. Neighborhood LID's. I think that what else was there other sources of funds? Golf Course Committee June 4, 2003 Page 13 of 22 Butler: Grants. Bird: Grants. When you get into the parks. Elroy is here now he probably but I think there is some grants and stuff in the parks that we probably didn't have available for us for a police station or something like that but where you are working on land I think there is sometimes there is grants out there that we could get that we are not allowed to get on the other part of the stuff. I'll tell you another thing. You got financial people right over here at Farmers and Merchants, Terry or Clarence either one that have sit in on bonds with us and helped and stuff. I mean those guys if you don't want to bring Floyd in they can give you an idea of what kind of bonds and stuff we can get. There is a lot of different financial ways to do it, we just got to figure out how we pay it back is the main thing and like you say grants and impact fees and stuff like that is a possibility. Morrow: And Isee - I'm sorry go ahead. Steele: I was just going to say. Elroy you have been working with the impact fee committee, can we use impact fees in this way or how are those set? Seeing how you have been - Huff: We (inaudible). Butler: (Inaudible) right. Huff: (Inaudible) stuff out there that grants and stuff that (inaudible) Butler: An overall financial strategy is what we are talking about and (inaudible) one way and maybe (inaudible). So if a couple people can just put that together and bring that to the committee I think that would be - I think we are going to have to give the Council some idea of, I don't know if we can get to this, how much staff time is it going to take to pull that package together and who should be there. Morrow: Well I think that once again in terms of the scope of what we are doing is that we can give them that menu of those things that are available out there and then they can make the determination once again between the Mayor and Council of what it is they want to do in terms of improvements and then they can go ahead and have the study group because none of us have the horse power to do anything with (inaudible) and I don't know if that is an appropriate function for a committee. I think that that's probably something that ought to be done by elected officials and their representatives because openly they are the ones that make the deal. Anything else that anybody can think of in terms of financing people or avenues that we ought to explore? Golf Course Committee June 4, 2003 Page 14 of 22 Butler: Maybe you ought to put some (inaudible) we actually also you know the different people. You know a couple of them (inaudible). Morrow: Well I see those guys and I'll do it -who else wants to be involved in terms of this financing research? Anybody besides JoAnn? Roundtree: (Inaudible). Morrow: So Charlie you'll take Ken and JoAnn you and I will touch bases and determine about talking to these other guys and put together some notes for our next meeting with respect to the financing. Bird: Walt I think it would be good to get -try to get some grants too. Ask Elroy to look into some and what kind of grants we can have and stuff like that because I think there probably is more grants for park land then anything else around here (inaudible). Butler: Has the city done many local improvements (inaudible). Bird: No we did one LID 20 years ago and I think we probably just billed for the last two a month ago. Butler: So your making it sound like something that - Bird: Something that we never got real big into it. Just this downtown thing, the only LID that I know of that has been done. (Inaudible discussion) Bird: Cherry Lane, oh okay I forgot about that one. Johnson: You might contact the MDC people too because they are (inaudible). Morrow: The who people? Johnson: The Meridian Development Corporation. Morrow: The MDC. Johnson: Because they've had guest people come in and make presentations on optional (inaudible). Bird: That's Clarence's seat. Clarence sits on that too so. Butler: Ryan Armbruster is the attorney (inaudible). Golf Course Committee June 4, 2003 Page 15 of 22 Johnson: (Inaudible) Stacy Kilchenmann (inaudible). Butler: Well Ryan is one flight of stairs above me and so I'll make it (inaudible). Morrow: So you will talk to Ryan? Butler: Uh huh. Huff: Excuse me Walt. (Inaudible). Morrow: No not as of yet. Huff: (Inaudible). Morrow: Do you know (inaudible) introduce each other and talk about park stuff in general. (Inaudible). (Inaudible discussion) Morrow: Well I think we were thinking in terms of the end of the week. So I'll talk to them tomorrow. (Inaudible discussion) Morrow: Okay. And I think you guys were buying lunch is what I think the deal was. Johnson: That is where we are getting all your inaudibles is all the mumbling that goes on in here. Morrow: I see okay. So we should be comfortable with - we got a great start on the finance and we got some folk who (inaudible) financing issues and we will press on from there with that. Has anybody had any thoughts for additional projects that ought to be on the list in terms of capital facility improvements that we don't have on there now? Berg: JoAnn was going to get an updated list (inaudible). Butler: There you guys go (inaudible). We will have to share a little bit here. Berg: I can make some more. Butler: And then also, you did these maps (inaudible). This is a copy of the golf course as you know it just based on the assessors map. (Inaudible discussion) ' Golf Course Committee June 4, 2003 Page 16 of 22 Morrow: Okay has everybody had a chance to study the (inaudible) these are all issues that we talked about last time and assigned recently accurate dollars and cents to them. Any other - (End of Side One) Morrow: Keith? Jennifer have you had a chance to review that? Lovan-Holloway: I have. Morrow: And your thoughts are? Lovan-Holloway: I don't have any thoughts on it. Morrow: Okay. (Inaudible discussion) Morrow: Sharon? JoAnn? Butler: No I don't but if anybody does or if there you know partly this was pretty bare boned do we want to put in any (inaudible) as well. And I don't know exactly what I mean by that (inaudible). Johnson: I have no idea what you are talking about? Butler: Things like rebuilding bunkers. Johnson: You got bunkers in there. Butler: I mean I don't know if anybody wants to do anything like that but I thought I'd throw that out. Morrow: JoAnn I think from the standpoint of the committee's credibility I want bare basic, bare boned stuff. The Mayor and Council can always take that and enhance it as they wish. Jim. Johnson: I just had a question for clarification. You are only adding one restroom? Morrow: Yes because the one was close. I did get from Gary Smith topo maps of where the two outlets are. It is on a big 24 by 36 sheet of paper so I didn't bring it but we do have that technical information now. So there are a couple provisions for restrooms (inaudible) elevation issues. Further questions? Steele: I'm fine. Golf Course Committee June 4, 2003 Page 17 of 22 Johnson: I don't have any, it's a pretty big wish list (inaudible). Morrow: Brad? No. And Will? Berg: I think we discussed it very thoroughly last meeting. Morrow: That's true. Okay so we are good with the wish list. Johnson: Let me make one comment. Morrow: Okay. Johnson: I think in my mind that you are real light on equipment okay. And so this is -these are probably something these two items they need right now but (inaudible) trimmers all that stuff put it under miscellaneous. You need another item under there. Is that true Tom you could use more equipment? Funkhouser: You could always use more equipment. But again it gets back to so called standard or raising the bar. How far do you want to go. At this point you don't have turf out there that's going to (inaudible). Johnson: We are assuming that we are going to build the new irrigation system and everything else. I think down the road you are going to need more equipment. I don't think down the road is very far. Butler: Okay. Any other suggestion on amount? (Inaudible discussion) Morrow: That is valid because Jim has just been through all (inaudible). (Inaudible discussion) Johnson: All kinds of stuff. Morrow: I think that is sufficient. Any other thoughts there then with respect to the miscellaneous? Berg: Elroy had a comment that have you talked about large spray equipment of any sort? Morrow: Well we talked about that already with the respect to the - Berg: Sharing things as far as then owning something? Golf Course Committee June 4, 2003 Page 18 of 22 Morrow: No. Berg: Partially. Morrow: No we haven't talked about that. Butler: And maybe in addition to -maybe we ought to add a category on equipment rental too. (Inaudible discussion) Butler: I'm not saying that we are done but what we can do is revise it and email it out to everybody so that anybody that is going to talk on financing has something in hand that they can use and they just wanted to (inaudible) for a minute while they suppose we just get any information to you or just compile it somehow. I guess we can just figure that out. Morrow: Yep. And you and I will be corresponding back and forth with respect to the financing issues in terms of dealing with these guys at any rate and what you give to me then I will get to Will to be able to disperse. Butler: Got ya okay. Morrow: I think that where we are at for tonight is is that we've got our list pretty well defined and the next major issue is with respect to possible avenues of financing. Are there any other topics that anybody wants to discuss tonight in terms of where we are at this point in time? And I'll start with you Charlie. Roundtree: Financing is an important point once we have that information (inaudible) scenarios is (inaudible) to the city. Morrow: That's correct. Roundtree: Leasee Lessor responsibility. All of that stuff. The longer we put that off the harder it's going to be. Morrow: And I agree with that. It seems to me what we are about is that we are fact finding now in terms of doing the brainstorming to get everything on paper that we can get on there. And then at that point in time we start putting it into a format and press on from there. We have two challenges first to get all that information that financing issue and the capital improvement issue and then we put it into format and we have the Mayor and Council press forward as they see fit. Tom any other issues that you want to discuss? Funkhouser: No. Golf Course Committee June 4, 2003 Page 19 of 22 Morrow: Okay. Keith? Jennifer? Lovan-Holloway: No. Butler: We will pull together some of those and more less table this possibility and (inaudible). Morrow: That's fine. Anything else JoAnn? Butler: No. Morrow: Jim? Johnson: No I just got a question. Was there any follow up or any success in getting that Hubble survey? Morrow: Not that I. Johnson: I just saw it in the minutes (inaudible) (Inaudible discussion) Berg: I got a map to David Moe that's what I was assigned to do so he could look at the sprinkler set up and do costs that way. I didn't have any survey but we did get a map. Morrow: Was that the map from COMPASS that (inaudible). Berg: Yes the colored map that showed the area of the golf course and that he was just going to get some scales and figure out how much area (inaudible). Butler: Its not. Berg: I made a copy of it but it was one sheet but it looks - I mean it was like this it shows the lots and (inaudible). Butler: Came from the assessor's records (inaudible). Berg: (inaudible) recorded document. But it doesn't have measurements or anything of that nature. I'm sure you could do that but you'd have to go and (inaudible) areas and get them numbers. Morrow: To answer the rest of your question is that I will follow up with the Hubble Homes. Okay. Anything else? Creg? Steele: No. Golf Course Committee June 4, 2003 Page 20 of 22 Morrow: Brad? Elroy? Will? All right the final issue is the next meeting. (Inaudible discussion) Morrow: I think two weeks is probably appropriate given the meetings that we need to have with financing folks. How is everybody for the 18th same time same place. Lovan-Holloway: I'm gone. Berg: I'm gone. Butler: I'm going. Morrow: Well the 18th is not good so what's your preference the 21St or no the 25th. Butler: I'll be gone all that week so I can work with you ahead of time. Morrow: Okay. Are you here the 25tH Lovan-Holloway: Yes. Morrow: Will are you here the 25th? JoAnn you are gone the 25tH Lovan-Holloway: I'm gone the 15t" through the 23~d. Morrow: The 15th through the 23~d. I don't have a bias in terms of staying on a Wednesday if we want to - I think the switching of nights is contingent upon space here at the City Hall. Will do we have any other option of nights other then a Wednesday. Berg: Slim to none. I'll just have to pull out the calendar and check to see what we have. Tuesdays are booked. Thursday are P and Z. Some Wednesdays are Parks and Rec. We have a homeowners association meeting right now. And this room is a little bit better. Do you want me to go look? Morrow: Yeah lets do. Is June a month a lot of you are going to be out of town. Butler: It looks like it. And you're right it's going to be vacation time for a lot of people. (Inaudible discussion) Golf Course Committee June 4, 2003 Page 21 of 22 Morrow: It seems to me that unless he gives us a better date that probably the 25th is the Wednesday is what we are going to go with. Because to go any further then we are in that week of the 4th of July and - (Inaudible discussion) Berg: The 25th is wide open. Morrow: I think we will do that. Okay the 25th it is at 6:00 in this room. Then I presume Mr. Berg that the final thing that I have to do is call for an adjournment motion. Berg: You didn't approve the minutes. Morrow: Oh I'm sorry. Okay. All right. Berg: You should mention who all is here that would be great. Morrow: All right then for the record. People here are Will Berg, Charlie Roundtree, Tom Funkhouser, Keith Bird, Jennifer and Nancy and Sharon and JoAnn and Jim and Creg and Brad and Elroy. Everybody on the list is here except David Moe. Okay. So much for roll call. Now is there a motion to approve the minutes from the meeting of May 7tn~ Roundtree: So moved. Morrow: Its been moved is there a second? Steel: Second. Morrow: Moved and seconded to approve the minutes of May 7th. All in favor? Opposed? Do we have the famous motion Mr. Roundtree? Roundtree: I move we adjourn Morrow: And is there a second to adjourn? Steele: Second. Morrow: Moved and seconded by Mr. Steele to adjourn. All in favor. We are out of here. Thank you very much for your time. MEETING ADJOURNED AT 7:09 P.M. Golf Course Committee June 4, 2003 Page 22 of 22 (TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) APPROVED: WALT MORROW, CHAIRMAN / / DATE • • WORKING LIST OF GOLF COURSE NEEDS PRELIMINARY ESTIMATES OF COSTS Improvement ProjeetedCost' SoureeofFunds Irrigation system $1-1.5 M Maintenance Building Metal building? No paint / no maintenance 40x80 $45 per sq. ft. $150,000 Lightweight Fairway mower $60,000 ($30,000 each) Tom = 2 are needed. Dedicated rotary mowers $24,000 each (1 necessary) New Greens2: 1 $5,000 to $8,000 6 $5,000 to $8,000 7 $5,000 to $8,000 9 $5,000 to $8,000 Aerating equipment or contract3 Contract $12,000 if buying Plant grass over Irrigation canal $1,000 (No. 3 Fairway) Cart paths throughout system4 $50,000 Trees about 100 trees initial planting ($50 - $100/tree) $10,000 (immediate need) Re-build bunkers on new nine $2,000/bunker x 10 = $20,000 'All costs are +/- 10% ZOthers could be rebuilt but not necessary now; not due to bad slope. 3Lease now which may be the way to go. Secondary issue. 4Throughout greens & tees on front 9 only -gravel or cinder u u Carts (continuing) Picnic Area: Tables, Gazebo, BBQ, $50,000 Scoreboard area Flags for driving range lake $1,000 (different colors) New Restrooms $75,000 + sewer and water Clubhouse Maintenance $3,000 (ongoing annual) s ~ T-°= SECTION 0~ T3N R1 W ~ .~ ~. ~d,~, U G ~~r11~`n~ List ~ ~o~~ P~`~el l~nn~~r~r~~ Cst-~ rv~~tes ,- - ~t»proveii~ent ~ Projected Cosa j~~ ~ofF s Irrigation system 4~~ 1-1.5 M~~-~ ~ ~ ~ Gt ~-~- SS Maintenance Building Metal building? No paint / no maintenance 40x80 $50,000 ~ ~~~" ~ ' 77 ~. ~ Lightweight Fairway mowers $30,000 ~~': ~~ ~, Dedicated rotary mowers $24,000 , ~~ New Greens: 1 $5,000 to $8,000 `~.... 6 $5,000 to $8,000 7 $5,000 to $8,000 ~~~' ~~`"`= 9 $5,000 to $8,000 Aerating equipment or contract $12,000 p~ ~, ~ ~~~ 1> ~ '~ G ~ ~, ~ ~~/ ~ G r~ '~ C„ Plant grass over Irrigation canal ~ -~ $1,000 j , _ ~ /~ .~ ~~~rl-~.. Cart paths throughout system $50,000 ~ ~- ~~Z~,~-~`I'CwC~ ~' Trees about 100 trees this year ($50 - $100/tree) ~~ C~ ~~~"L'~q ~~~ '~r~ Re-build bunkers on new nine `~000/bunker x 10 = ,0,000 Carts (annual cost) $30,000 ~-- ~-~y~;y~ ~ ._ n~_~ ~~ /~J~ Re-doing the lake on 4 $1,000 ~ ~~ ~ ~~- ~, ~. ~,h ,ifs' . Picnic Area: Tables, Gazebo, BBQ, Scoreboard area ~s10; -- ^ , ~~ v'~ _ c Flags for lake (different colors) $1,000 ~~~cy~t, P~ New Restrooms $r(1; - ~ ., f ~,~~ u ntenance (oirgoing annual) $3,000 ~~~~~u O ~~ ~~' ~~ ~ ~ c;(~-~Z- ~i~l Z'' ~. JS d,~ r~~~~ ~ti ~~~~~P ~~ 7`~'/ ~.I`~i~~ L~f~ ~~~' ~fE~~ C©ur~e l~S,e des o-~ C~sfs ~ - ~a Sc