HomeMy WebLinkAbout2009 03-10Meridian City Council Meetinu March 10.2009
A meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 7:00 p.m., Tuesday,
March10, 2009, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd, Keith Bird, Charlie Rountree, Brad
Hoaglun, and David Zaremba.
Others Present: Bill Nary, Jaycee Holman, Anna Canning, John Overton, Joe Silva,
Keith Watts, Tom Bany, Kyle Radeck, Ed Ankenman, Eric Jensen, and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
X David Zaremba X Brad Hoaglun
X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
De Weerd: Okay. I'll go ahead and call tonight's meeting to order. Thank you for
joining us here this evening. It is, for the record, Tuesday, March 10th. It's 7:00 o'clock.
I will start tonight's meeting with roll call attendance.
Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance:
De Weerd: Item No. 2 is our Pledge of Allegiance. If you will all rise and join us in the
pledge.
(Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
Item 3. Community Invocation by Tom Katsma with Valley Life Community
Church:
De Weerd: Is Pastor Katsma here? I'm song, I thought I remembered seeing you. Item
3 is our community invocation. We will be led tonight by Pastor Katsma and he's with
the Valley Life Community Church. If you will all join us in the community invocation or
take this as an opportunity for a moment of reflection. Pastor.
Katsma: Shall we pray. Almighty God, we recognize you as the giver of every good
and perfect gift. We thank you, Lord, for this gathering tonight that represents the
business of our city and we thank you for the civility, for the privilege that we have to live
in this place and we honor you for these public servants and staff in every capacity and
for all the citizens that are gathered here tonight to ask for your help in their matters.
We thank you, Lord, for this privilege of asking for guidance, for discemment, and for
wisdom. We pray for your blessing upon our community and our leaders and our
citizens in these times. We pray, Lord, for your blessing on our country, too, as well and
for all those who are working for financial recovery. Give them discemment and
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March 10, 2009
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wisdom, so that we can continue to lead the world. Thank you so much, Lord, for the
privilege that we have to ask for your blessing upon this tonight and we do this in your
mighty name, amen.
De Weerd: Pastor Katsma, I do have an updated City of Meridian pin I'd like to give to
you and thank you for being here.
Katsma: Thank you very much.
Item 4: Adoption of the Agenda:
De Weerd: Item No. 4 is the adoption of the agenda.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: On that agenda there are a couple of requested changes. No change for the
Consent Agenda. Under Item 6, Department Reports, there has been a request by the
Public Works Department to add an Item 2, which would be the reimbursement
agreement with JLJ Enterprises. So, that would be Item 6-B-2. Then, there has been a
request on the Purchasing Department report -- that's, actually, going to be presented
by Keith Watts, who is presently in another meeting and he has asked if that can be
moved to the end of the agenda, so it would become Item 11. And just for public
knowledge, Items 8 and 9, the applicant has requested that those be continued until
June 2nd. And Item 11 would become 6-C-1 from the Purchasing Department. With
those changes I move that we adopt the agenda.
Hoaglun: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda as amended. All those
in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 5: Consent Agenda:
A. Approve Minutes of January 12, 2009 City Council Special
Meeting:
B. Approve Minutes of February 17, 2009 City Council Special
Workshop Meeting:
C. Approve Minutes of March 3, 2009 City Council Regular Meeting:
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D. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: AZ 08-
013 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 32 separate tax parcels
owned by 28 different property owners consisting of a total of 55.6
acres that are currently receiving city water and/or sewer service by
City of Meridian -various locations (see application):
E. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: PP 08-
011 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 17 commercial lots on
approximately 8.7 acres in a C-G zoning district for Trade Plaza by
Trade Plaza Subdivision Development, LLC -Northwest Comer of
Meridian Road and Corporate Drive:
F. Approve Sanitary Sewer and Water Easement Agreement for
Great Wall by Kin San Chan and Xiao Hua Huang:
G. Approval of Task Order 06696 for Construction Staking of
Water and Sewer Improvements in Conjunction with the ACRD
Split Corridor Phase 1 Project for $6,020.00:
De Weerd: Okay. Item 5 is our Consent Agenda.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I move we adopt the Consent Agenda as published and for the Mayor to sign
and the Clerk to attest.
Hoaglun: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda. If
there is no discussion, Madam Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 6: Department Reports:
A. Legal Department:
1. Update on Meridian Heights /Kentucky Ridge Request
for Service:
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De Weerd: Okay. Item 6 under Department Reports. We will start tonight's meeting
with our legal department.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, although this is a Legal Department
report, it really is, probably, more of a report from the Meridian Heights Sewer and
Water Association. Not a whole lot of legal issues here. I think there are some issues
with the Public Works Department and Mr. Barry. I don't know if this would be the
appropriate time or whether or not it would make more sense to have the association's
representatives here make their presentation. This is based on initially a letter that was
sent to you by Sentra Consulting. Mr. West is here to have that discussion with you,
whichever your preference. Tom, do you think it would make more sense to have them
first?
Barry: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Mr. Nary, I think it would make the most
sense for Mr. West to make a presentation and, then, that would help the Council
maybe direct more specific questions to Public Works or also to the Meridian Heights
Water and Sewer Association representatives.
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. West.
West: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Mr. Nary. Mr. Barry. Mrs.
Canning. We appreciate this opportunity to come before you tonight and talk about the
request that you received from me and drafted at the direction of Meridian Heights
Water and Sewer Association. It's been a number of months in trying to resolve the
issues the residents of Kentucky Ridge and Meridian Heights Water Sewer Association
currently face. I thought what I would do is start by giving copies of a proposed water
district boundary. I brought eight copies and I will hand seven over to Mr. Barry, if that's
okay, in the event that questions come up about district boundaries, then, the map can
be passed out and we can refer to that, in case any questions come there. My name is
Steve West. I'm president of Sentra Consulting. Sentra is a small civil environmental
engineering, civil government affairs firm based out of Boise, Idaho, and we represent
the Meridian Heights Water and Sewer Association. With us tonight is Mr. Val Hill, who
is president of the association, and Ms. Stephanie Bonnie of the law firm of Moore
Smith Buxton and Turcke, who are also involved or retained on retainer with the
association to help move them through the process of establishing a water and sewer
district.
De Weerd: Welcome.
West: On February 16th I sent a request to the Council and the Mayor on behalf of
Meridian Heights Water and Sewer Association and kind of went through a little bit of
background and history, which I'm sure most of you are familiar with. Perhaps more
than what you'd like to be familiar with, but it was, essentially, a request to receive
sewer services and eventually potable water supply on a contractual basis upon
formation of the water and sewer district, moving from an association to a water and
sewer district. And as you're aware, Meridian Heights Water and Sewer Association will
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no longer be able to dispose of wastewater at wastewater treatment facility, wastewater
land application site, as of spring 2009, which is very nearly upon us. So, this inability
to dispose of wastewater at that site constitutes a public health emergency and, in
addition, the residents of the potable water supply is operating under a consent order
from the Idaho Department Environmental Quality due to uranium contamination, which
also constitutes another serious public health concern. This consent order will also
require that the Meridian Heights Water and Sewer Association resolve the issues
associated with water supply. There is a letter, Attachment A that was included in this
packet from Mark Mason, regional manager of engineering with the Idaho Department
of Environmental Quality attesting to the fact that it is an imminent public health
emergency and asked the city to assist in trying to resolve this, if it a suitable solution
could be found. As you're all aware, we have gone through a number of efforts to try to
identify the best possible solution for resolving initially the wastewater treatment issue,
but also the potable water supply and it has become clear to us that as a function of
cost, reasonable access to the Meridian sewer supply, efficacy, timing, and, frankly,
exhausting all other options. The only reasonable alternative face available to the
citizens of Meridian Heights and Kentucky Ridge is to connect with city infrastructure as
a means to secure continued services. We are all, I think, familiar with the history of
trying to address that. We initially looked at an annexation approach, prepared an
annexation application, submitted that to the city for review. There were a couple of
issues that are as yet unresolved with that annexation application. One is the issue of
contiguity, although we are informed that is resolvable. However, the bigger issue I
think lies with the potential request of asking the city as a government entity, to sponsor
the local improvement district necessary to pay for the upgrades with Meridian Heights
Sewer Association infrastructure. We understand that there are concems with that role
from the city's perspective and perhaps justifiably so. We also understand there are
concems with respect to city staff in recommending annexation move forward without a
better understanding of what the infrastructure shortcomings or issues are that would
need to be resolved to bring both the collection and distribution system into accord with
city requirements. Based on that, the city suggested that we approach the Ada County
Board of County Commissioners with a request for them to sponsor a local
improvement district and that was done on February 10th, 2008. A letter request was
made to the board. I presented to the board in their regularly scheduled business
meeting and they, after some deliberation, decided that it was not an acceptable
request for a variety of reasons and a letter to that effect was sent to the City of
Meridian explaining their position. I know that there were some additional discussions
as a follow-up meeting in the regular collaboration discussion meeting between the city
and the board of county commissioners, which I also attended, and there was an
opportunity to discuss some of those concems. The bottom line, though, is that the Ada
County Board of County Commissioners have declined to sponsor a local improvement
district and their letter is attached in Appendix B of the packet information that I sent to
you for your review and I would be happy to comment additionally on that if it becomes
necessary. Prior to that -- those two scenarios, we looked at a number of options in
trying to determine how to fund and how to move forward to resolve or avert this public
health emergency. We approached the state revolving loan fund for -- to secure funding
for that. We are in the cycle for funding, but the timing is such that it would no longer --
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it's not feasible to access the funds and get the project constructed in time to avert this
looming concern. We also I think looked into the establishment of a community
infrastructure district based on legislation that was passed last legislative session. I
know several of Council members, including the Mayor, attended workshops related to
community infrastructure districts. We went through some number crunching to try to --
working with experts in this particular area and at the end of the day the costs for doing
the community infrastructure district were exorbitant to the point of being prohibitive in
this instance. It worked out to somewhere between seven and eight percent interest or
fees for using the money. There were other issues as well, but it just -- there was no
way that this was going to work in terms resolving the concern. I approached the bond
bank, spoke with Senator Bart Davis to evaluate the bond bank's willingness to
underwrite infrastructure upgrades and he made it quite clear that they would be
unwilling to support that request, because they really needed to have a government
entity with taxing authority to fall back on in the event of default. They did not see any
advantage or didn't see it as appropriate to use bond bank money to fund an entity
without taxing authority and specifically their preference is with municipalities. We also
went and looked at private lenders and at the time there were none really interested at
the rate that would be necessary to make this a viable project. There was a number of
discussions with various lending institutions in town. Several banks looked at scenarios
such as credit lines, lines of credit, other types of loans, but at the end of the day, at
least at that time, they were not able to present a package or a product that was going
to be economically feasible in terms of funding the upgrades or the connection from
Meridian to the City of -- Meridian Heights Water and Sewer to the City of Meridian.
After additional discussion, it appeared that one scenario that might resolve -- well,
before I move to that, I would also say that there were other options explored, such as
pumping and trucking the wastewater to a wastewater treatment facility. As you might
imagine, the cost for that were exorbitant. Monthly fees went from roughly 50 dollars a
month per connection, up to around 400 dollars per month per connection based on
estimates that we got from pumping companies that would be able to provide that
service. We also looked at the viability of building a wastewater treatment plant, a
package treatment plant that would allow it to continue as a -- solving wastewater
treatment operation, but the costs for that are not insignificant. The other issue is that
the Department of Environmental Quality has a pretty rigid guideline with respect to
reasonable access and by virtue of the extension of the sewer lines from the City of
Meridian to the proximity -- to its proximity to Meridian Heights Water and Sewer -- or
Meridian Heights Subdivision and Kentucky Ridge Subdivision, the reasonable access
policy would preclude the approval of construction of a wastewater facility and, then,
you still have the issue with respect to disposal and so the -- with -- with the concern of
protection of groundwater quality in the area, the level of treatment that would be
necessary to be able to land apply wastewater in a more concentrated fashion probably
does not allow that to be a reasonable alternative to consider. After additional
discussion in trying to figure out how to move forward with this, it was suggested that
one possibility that might resolve concerns and in our view offer a solution that would
effectively insure no harm to the city or your residents would be for Meridian Heights
Water and Sewer Association to form a water and sewer district pursuant to Idaho
Code. This has a lot of appeal in that it is aquasi-governmental agency and in that
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March 10, 2009
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capacity able to compete for funding, bonding, at much more attractive rates, because it
does have taxing authority, but it also I think allows them to sponsor their own LID, if
that becomes the way that they choose to fund their upgrades. It also removes the
question associated with annexation of what to do about potential code enforcement
violations and it does put a contractual relationship in place on a fee for service basis
that would deal with the immediate public health threat, but also allow time to evaluate
the existing infrastructure and distribution for the water supply, perform the upgrades, to
move towards concurrence or compliance with the city requirements. And so that
seemed to have a lot of appeal, solve a lot of concems, put the city in a much better
position in terms of who they would be contracting with and by virtue of having an
existing group of patrons that already has a solid payment history, I think put the newly
formed district on pretty solid footing to be able to continue to manage that until the
other issues are addressed. By that I mean infrastructure and any upgrades that
needed to be done. So, with that, we decided to -- decided to come to you with a
request, recognizing that Moore, Smith, Buxton, and Turcke did -- have been retained
and are moving forward, I would defer questions with regard to the specifics of the
formation of a district and what they can do to Ms. Bonnie. But it appears that the only
viable option at this point is to move forward with the formation to the water and sewer
district and to respectfully request that the city considers granting our request to dispose
of wastewater on a contractual basis at -- through city sewer. And so I guess in closing
I would like to say that with respect to the sewer district contract with the city idea, there
are a number of success stories throughout the state where this has been done very
well. And, in fact, here in the Treasure Valley the Eagle Sewer District does contract
with the city of Boise for wastewater disposal. Their approach is to buy a certain
amount of capacity and that agreement's been in place for just about ten years now. In
fact, as I recall I think I was negotiating on behalf of DEQ with Eagle Sewer District and
the city of Boise at the time that that agreement was put in place. I took the opportunity
to speak with Mr. Lynn Moser, the president of the Eagle Sewer District and also Neal
Oldemeyer, who is the director of Boise City Public Works, who both affirmed that they
had had a very positive experience as a result of that relationship and felt that it was
working very well for them. There are other sewer district relationships that have not
gone as well within the city, but those were older agreements that were struck back in
the 1950s or 1960s. Bench Sewer District would be an example. They were 50 year
agreements. Didn't anticipate the authoring or the authorization of the Clean Water Act
-- the Federal Clean Water Act, or a number of other environmental regulations that
have caused problems with that agreement. The experience with Eagle Sewer District
and the city of Boise is that when there have been issues and they have teamed from
mistakes on the previous agreements, when there have been issues they have taken
time to work those out and make any necessary changes through opener clauses in
their existing agreement. So, I believe -- you know, the bottom line of this is that we
have members of the Treasure Valley community that are facing a .real public health
emergency. There is no way around that. They don't have any option. They have
exhausted all others. And they are within the city's area of impact. They recognize -- I
think the city's appropriate concems about -- with respect to annexation and have, with
the good help of members of your staff, come up with a potential solution that we are
asking you to consider. I think it's a much more urgent scenario than that people just
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coming to the city asking for sewer services. Their ability to dispose of their wastewater
is going away this spring. They have secured funding in the amount of 200,000 dollars
that would allow them to complete the engineering and the construction for a hook up to
city sewer. So, there is no question about their ability to be able to go forward and
provide the connection subject to the city's willingness to allow that to occur. I think that
this proposal allows for a fee for service approach that will avert the disaster at no harm
to the city. I think the residents of Meridian Heights and Kentucky Ridge Subdivision do
not have another option and time has all but run out. So, on behalf of Meridian Heights
Water and Sewer Association, as well as the citizens of Meridian Heights and Kentucky
Ridge subdivisions, I am respectfully asking this Council to allow Meridian Heights
Water and Sewer Association -- Sewer District, once formed -- and that's important --
once formed, to contract with the city for wastewater disposal services and toward that
end I respectfully request this Council authorize staff to immediately move forward in
working out the terms for that arrangement subject to Meridian City Council review and
approval. And with that I'd be more than happy to stand for questions. Thank you for
your time.
De Weerd: Thank you, Steve. Any questions from Council?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Tom, anything from you?
Barry: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, as you know, Mr. West and Mr. Val Hill
and other representatives of the association have been working closely with myself and
my staff on this issue for some time and have tried to resolve these issues over what I
understand is a period of time that predates even my time here with the city. I think Mr.
West's presentation and also his documentation is in line and I also would like to go on
the record and say on behalf of my staff and myself, I am very pleased to have been
working this closely with Mr. West and also Mr. Hill on this issue. It's an important issue
to get resolved here very quickly. The request that Mr. West makes seems like a
reasonable one and would, of course, require the -- your direction to me with regard to
allowing us to work on this agreement. There are several things that would need to get
resolved and issues and items that you should be aware of. One of those being the
term of the agreement and, then, also certainly some issues associated with the
services extended. For example, that capacity that we might bestow to the district once
formed over a specified period of time, how that might want -- how the Council may
want to equitably distribute the -- the loaning or granting of that capacity to the sewer
district, such that the rate payers are not bearing the burden of those -- those impacts of
the association. We have done a capacity analysis as it relates to the association's
daily demand for sewer effluent and based on their numbers they are suggesting
around 44,000 gallons per day. Our most conservative estimates, which I agree would
be somewhat high, are showing around 85,000 gallons. So, we feel that we are
probably in the ballpark around 60 to 65 thousand gallons of sewage per day impacting
our plant. That capacity is available now, but as you know, annexed properties have --
essentially have -- essentially reserved much of our capacity for the annexed properties,
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so that there would have to be some equitable distribution I think as it relates to the -- to
the capacity available to the association that we would have to work through and how
that capacity might want to be -- how the city may want to be reimbursed for that
capacity. A surcharge certainly is not an out-of-the-line type of approach or an outright
purchasing of capacity or the equivalent of requirement of all hook-up fees, which --
which over a short term could seem excessive, in my opinion. These are all different
types of things that will have to be worked out in the contract if you should so direct staff
to work on one with -- with -- with the organization. What is also important to note
regarding the term is that whether or not the Council would want any specific milestones
to be met under a contract such as requiring the district to upgrade its facilities or to
work towards annexation of its properties or those kinds of things. These can be
sticking points and, actually, with the formation of a separate taxing or governmental
entity, if you will, the district, could be very cumbersome and would certainly require
some time and attention to work through. The other thing that's important, certainly, is
the term of the agreement. If say, for example, the water and sewer association, which
turned into a district, had no intent of ever annexing, we would need to address that in a
contract, whether it be over a term period or whether it be over a longer period and what
sort of mechanisms might need to take place and noticing of that -- for that matter in the
termination of services should the Council at some future date decide to withdraw its
extension of services. The other thing I do want to mention, too, is the formation of an
LID if the district wants to move toward the acquisition of financing through an LID,
could be long and cumbersome and, in reality, may not come to fruition if it is highly
contested and so that may play a roll in the term that we may want to discuss. So, in
brief, what I'd like to say is that I think Mr. West's presentation and where we are at the
crossroads is a reasonable one and what we would need as staff is your approval to go
ahead dedicate staff time and resources to working on a contract, with the
understanding that the contract would come back before the Council, certainly be
reviewed by our legal department, and be only executed, of course, with your approval
of any terms and conditions you saw fit to enter into a contract. So, with that I might
take any questions you may have.
De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: At this point it's not really a question, it's more of a comment, I guess, but I
know I have a great deal of sympathy for the emergency that your people are in. I think
the concern that I have expressed and other Council members probably have
expressed, is that this is not the only county subdivision that may be coming at us with
this kind of a problem and the reason we don't just jump into help is that this could be a
huge problem compounded by -- I don't know how many, at least six to a dozen others
and that's part of the reason that we are trying to take the time to make sure we get it
right. It isn't that we don't want to help, but as I think you have acknowledged and has
been stated, we don't want the cost to end up being borne by our current taxpayers for
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doing this. So, I guess that's more of a comment than a question, but that is what our
concern is about not just jumping up and saying, yeah, let's do this.
West: If I may respond, Mayor.
De Weerd: Please.
West: Councilman Zaremba, in a -- I appreciate your comments and I think that the
advice of staff and the wisdom of the Council has resulted in us having a much better
proposal than what might have originally been the case and so while it may have been
desirable initially in the short term to have resolved this early on, I think we have a much
better solution for the long term as a function of not jumping in and allowing time to
thoroughly think it through and arrive at you with this request today. So, I guess that's
where we are at.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Question for Tom. Mr. West had said they had raised the 200,000 dollars for
hook up. That's for sewer and water hook up and how do we come to that -- that
amount, if you could kind of give me some background on that.
Barry: Yes, Mr. Hoaglun. The hook up that he's referring to is the physical connection,
not the hook-up fee. So, that would be the cost to extend the line that exists in the road
-- or on the north side of the road underneath the road and to their property and, then,
for them to continue that to their lagoon, which would, then, allow the connection. So,
that is strictly an engineering cost for physical connection, not any kind of hook-up fee.
West: And construction cost. Engineering and construction cost.
Barry: Engineering and construction. Yeah.
Hoaglun: And, then, to follow up on that, Madam Mayor, that was -- in early discussions
there was -- they talked about a single point for both water and sewer, so that would
accomplish that, and, then, they would maintain their own lines and their existing
service to service their customers if they form that district and that's -- that's how we are
going about this if this was to move forward.
Barry: Yes, Mr. Hoaglun, the only thing under consideration this evening is the
connection for and service to the association and soon to be district, we understand, for
sewer services only, not for water. And that sewer service connection would be a single
point connection and we would -- if we entered a contract, bill the district for all of the
effluent coming out. We would probably put a meter on that, for example, and, then, bill
them for all the effluent that comes out of that line and, then, they would be in charge of
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maintaining the infrastructure, the billing, all of those sorts of things within the
subdivision.
Hoaglun: Okay. And to continue, just thinking ahead, you know, if we are down the
road ten years from now and they want to be annexed, it's time -- whatever, how -- their
system, we talked about that earlier, if it's not up to speed, how do we go about doing
that if it's not where it needs to be down the road? And I guess that might be a question
for Mr. West. I don't know, Tom, if you want to take a crack at that. Just trying to gaze
into the crystal ball, what type of problems might we have down the road if we go ahead
with this now -- I'd rather not be surprised about it, but know about it right now, if
something like that were to occur.
West: Madam Mayor, Councilman Hoaglun, I think that's an excellent question and
certainly our intent in the contract discussions is to address those types of issues.
Meridian Heights Water and Sewer Association is currently undertaking a videoing of --
videoing the sewer lines now to evaluate the integrity and as a first step at assessing
the integrity of that collection system. And so it would be our intent to do whatever
upgrades are necessary to insure that that meets what the rules require and I think that
will be a big part of the discussions that we have with your staff if you direct them to do
that.
Hoaglun: Thank you.
De Weerd: I guess my question is -- and it was one of the statements made from one of
the county commissioners yesterday, is if we are providing service, why wouldn't we
annex? And so if it's a question of system compatibility and working out the bugs until
annexation and the associated issues can be ironed out before that annexation
applicant was done, is one thing, but indefinitely and not having a well defined plan is --
is not -- is not something I would think the city would enter into without that end result.
And I know there is a number of issues and those issues do need some detail plans and
phasing or however that is reached, but when we have in the past and consistently
when we extend services, we do also extend the expectation of that annexation
commitment and application. So, what -- what has been the discussion along those
lines?
West: Madam Mayor, I think the -- the question is well taken. Obviously, the initial
attempt was to move forward with annexation. There were a number of issues that
cropped up that posed to be problematic to where the formation of a district seemed to
be a preferable alternative at this time. I think the location of the subdivisions and the
anticipated growth in that area in your city's area of impact, eventually leads to
annexation and one of the things that we hope to nail down I think in our contractual
agreement is a term that would at some level address the annexation question.
Whether that's five years, seven years, I don't really know the answer to that. We
haven't sat down and worked out what that might look like. The advantage of doing it
this way, of course, is that the costs and liabilities are borne by the district and the city is
not involved, the city is just providing a service for people in desperate need of help and
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that will probably allow for more thoughtful discussion of how annexation should
proceed, as well as addressing the other issues, such as code violations, other types of
city services, that can occur over the next several years to -- to everyone's satisfaction I
think.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I'm still trying to get my head around the -- I mean we have been at this way
too long and I don't think our philosophy has changed. We don't want the city, nor the
rate payers to bear the burden of poor planning on the part of the county. I don't see
how this proposal gets us any closer to that. I can see where there is monies in the till
to do the engineering and make the hook up, but if it were a new lot, annexed into the
City of Meridian or an individual lot wanting to be annexed into the City of Meridian,
they'd be paying ahook-up fee to pay for the capacity. To me if we don't get that up
front, we are extending that credit to folks who don't want any part of Meridian, as near
as I can tell, or a good share of them. We have a bunch of annexed and subdivisions in
preliminary and final platting stages and a number in final stages that require capacity.
I'm not about to apportion capacity out to those folks. They have the expectation that
they have capacity or we shouldn't have annexed them. Until I have an answer to that
question, I'm not about to move forward with the accepting of the City of Meridian going
into the business of taking somebody else's sewage on a business basis. I'm glad to
hear that one of the issues that's been facing all of us is the lack of knowledge about the
existing conditions of the infrastructure. I think once we know that, then, some of our
reservations will go away or they might be compounded. I don't know. I'm hesitant to
say, staff, go ahead and start contractual negotiation or crafting. I'm not hesitant to
continue to explore an answer to the questions that need to be answered. How do I go
to a rate payer who is now going to be facing increased rates at a fairly significant rate
over the next three years, that we are going to be extending potential hook-up capacity
credits to folks that aren't even part of the city? I struggle with that as an elected official
of the City of Meridian. I have great amount of sympathy for the folks that are in this
situation. I don't know that when they bought their property that they understood what
they were doing, a good number of them, but I will come back to that philosophy that the
City of Meridian should not -- and I don't believe can necessarily, at the cost of our rate
payers, take on this potential burden. The contractual arrangements that we have
heard discussed so far -- the only -- the only action on the part of the city is termination
of service. Once that valve's in place and once it's opened, that won't happen. So, to
me, there is no recourse the city has once the deal is brokered.
West: Madam Mayor and Councilman Rountree, there is a number of issues you raised
from that and I'll try to respond to each of them and, then, perhaps ask Mr. Bany to add
in to the extent he thinks appropriate. The question of hook-up fee really is a de facto
commitment, I think, on the part of the city to provide service in perpetuity. Basically,
Meridian City Council
March 10, 2009
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that's what you're doing. In this contractual relationship that's not what's occurring here.
It is a fee for service for a term. So, the way that we have tried to address that issue is
through the concept of a surcharge and part of the discussion on a contract negotiation
would be determining what the right amount -- what a fair amount of that surcharge
would be. There are a number of services that come with annexation into the city that
are addressed not only through taxes, but also hook-up fees and other kinds of things
that are not being ask to be provided in this instance. It's purely a service for the
wastewater disposal for the immediate term. Whether the contract looks at such things
as stipulated penalties or performance milestones or things of that nature, contract
renewals that open it up and determine the -- the value of wastewater capacity that
potentially might escalate over years, there are a number of ways I think to address
your concerns to make sure that the city's -- the residents of the City of Meridian are
getting a fair shake in the deal. We have never asked, at least in my involvement in
this, we have never asked for a cart blanche or a never ending credit card when it
comes to this particular issue. We have tried to approach it in the spirit of what is a fair
and equitable way to resolve the -- the dire circumstance of the people in Kentucky
Ridge and Meridian Heights Water and Sewer Association and I have always
appreciated not only this Council's efforts in trying to help us find that solution, but also
members of your staff who have worked diligently. I think with a clear conscious, with --
upon review of a contract that you review and authorize signing, there will be elements
in there that allow you to say this is a fair deal and this is why. Here is a surcharge. It's
for a term. We are not agreeing to provide these services in perpetuity. This is a fair
and equitable way of resolving a concern at no harm to the city and whether they buy
that capacity or whether it's leased in some fashion for a period of time, I don't think
that's going to -- particularly in light of your pending MPDS permits, I don't think that's
going to be problematic for you in terms of future expansion once that permanent is
issued. So, I think there is a lot flexibility in there. I think that I have a lot of faith in your
staff and legal counsel and our ability to follow up on the concerns that you have raised
and to ideally come back with you with a contract proposal that will meet your concerns.
De Weerd: Any other questions?
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor, just a question for Mr. Barry. It's my understanding we don't
have -- we have not entered into any of these contracts before or we don't have any
current existing contracts where we are accepting outside sewer. Is my understanding
correct?
Barry: Yes, Mr. Hoaglun, that's correct.
Hoaglun: So, we have not gone through a process of setting rates for the amount of
gallons that will be metered through and trying to make that determination -- we have
not gone through that process, have we?
Barry: No, sir. But I directed staff to do a market analysis, if you will, in the valley as it
relates to that very issue, to identify what other utilities were charging for services
outside their service areas and we got anywhere from zero -- it's the same charge
Meridian City Council
March 10, 2009
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whether you're in the service area or outside the service area, to as much as two times
the total rate. So, there is -- and that's not unusual in the business to charge anywhere
from a one and a half to two times the normal rate as a buy back of that capacity or a
loan fee, if you will, for the capacity that is temporarily used or indefinitely for that matter
used. There is just a number of ways to try to get at the financial distribution of impact
on capacity by these services being extended to organizations or property outside of our
service area.
Hoaglun: Okay. Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions from Council? Do you have anything you would
like to add? Thank you.
Barry: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Bany: Was it your desire to direct staff or Mr. West? If so, I will await that direction.
Alternatively, I could boil down a couple of the things that you may want to consider in
the direction for you.
De Weerd: I think Council would appreciate that.
Barry: Okay.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Rountree: Before Tom does that, I have a question, I believe it's probably for Ms.
Bonnie.
Bonnie: Yes, sir.
De Weerd: If you will just state your name for the record.
Bonnie: Oh, I'm song. Stephanie Bonnie. Moore, Smith, Buxton & Turcke.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Rountree: We have heard there is a potential for the formation of this sewer district and
I know you're not an odds maker, but if you could give me some assurance as to the
likelihood of that occurring. It's in the process it sounds like. Are you pretty much
assured it's going to happen or --
Meridian City Council
March 10, 2009
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Bonnie: Madam Mayor, Mr. Rountree, we have already filed a petition. Because of the
timing we would like to be able to make the May 26th election, so discussed about
having a petition filed, even as we are going ahead with these negotiations, so that if the
city were to discuss the potentiality of a contract, that we would be going forward with
that district at the same time. That petition has been filed in district court. A district
court will set a hearing on that within the next 20 to 40 days, so approximately one
month. They are required to do that by statute. I'm just waiting for the day back from
the court clerk and, then, if -- as long as the petition meets the statutory requirements,
that will go to an election on May 26th. Provided at least a simple majority of the
property owners in that potential district vote for the formation for the formation and
based on the participation that we have had that in the petition, it seems very likely that
we would be able to hit that number. So, to be honest as of yet I have not seen any
road blocks to the formation of that district.
Rountree: And it's a simple majority of those folks who vote or the residents within the
district?
Bonnie: Correct, sir. A simple majority, 50 percent, plus one person, of those people
that actually would be paying the district that own property in the district.
Rountree: Okay. Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Anything else from Council? Council, would you like to hear Mr.
Barry's --
Rountree: Yes.
Bird: Yeah.
De Weerd: Mr. Barry.
Bany: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Just one point of
clarification before I begin. Mr. Hoaglun, your question just a moment ago about
whether or not we extend services in any contract basis similar to the situation being
presented this evening. I had answered no. I just want to make sure that there are --
that's qualified. Bitter Creek Meadows Subdivision, for example, and others like that are
outside of the city limits and we do extend services to those parcels, but under the
condition that they have all signed consent to annex petitions, thus, removing the
concern that we have here that those facilities -- or those properties would never
conceivably be annexed at any point in time. When they are contiguous they will
automatically come into the city and, therefore, that issue gets resolved. So, I just --
know it's a fine point, but I wanted to make that clear.
Hoaglun: And if I might ask to follow, then. Would we collect that hook-up fee at that
point in time when they annex or has that fee already been paid or --
Meridian City Council
March 10, 2009
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Barry: The fee has already been paid.
Hoaglun: Okay. Thank you.
Barry: Yes, sir.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Zaremba: The parallel of that also is that they have built their system to the city's
satisfaction; is that correct?
Barry: That is correct, Mr. Zaremba.
West: Madam Mayor, just one point of clarification, if I may.
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
West: In talking with Stephanie -- because I wasn't sure if I heard it right, but in
response to Councilman Rountree's question -- and correct me if I'm wrong, Stephanie,
but it's a simple majority of the people that show up to vote that are property owners, not
a simple majority of the property owners only. Right?
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Barry.
Bany: Thank you, Madam Mayor. As I have jotted in my notes this evening, I think I
can boil down the Council's concerns to four primary issues. This may have bearing on
how you direct staff to move from this point on. The first one is associated with the
capacity. As I mentioned earlier, the capacity is a concern certainly. We are dealing
with MPDS regulatory limits that even the plant capacity is greater than that, we cannot
exceed at this point in time. Extending services to these subdivisions will tie up some of
that capacity and compromise annexed properties. There is no way around that until
we got through our MPDS negotiations with the Environmental Protection Agency. So,
that is a definite impact that the Council would need to be comfortable with. However,
the payment for that capacity, loans or otherwise, extended to the district, I think is
something that is workable through an increase service charge or surcharge itself or
some combination of appropriate hook-up charges during the contract, those sorts of
things. So, I feel like that's workable. The second major issue is that of annexation. It
would be highly unusual for one govemmental agency in a contract to require another
govemmental agency to increase or improve its infrastructure with the intent that at
some certain date in time the entire govemmental agency -- in this case the sewer and
water district, would dissolve and the city would take over the services for that district.
And that would be highly unusual. So, that could be problematic from a legal
standpoint. And I'm not qualified to make remarks on the legalities of that. But it will be
very unusual for something like that to occur. The third thing that I picked up is the
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March 10, 2009
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service upgrades. It is a reality, I think, to consider that it is quite conceivable that this
district would never potentially be able to fully improve all of the infrastructure to meet
city standards. It is equally conceivable that they could, but under an LID form of
financing, I think it's more unlikely, because of the obstacles that need to be overcome
in acquiring full financing under an LID mechanism. On the other hand, if they were to
acquire say clean water state revolving funds through the stimulus package and were
granted for all of their needs as submitted, they could within a two year period
conceivably have all of their infrastructure surveyed and upgraded -- maybe a three
year period and the whole issue goes away. So, that is a questionable, but legitimate
concem. The second issue on service upgrades -- or, excuse me, I'm finished with ttie
upgrades. But the last issue I had with stopping of service, the contract itself could
allow for performance guarantees, which would, then, terminate service if those
guarantees were not met. However, the likelihood of us say executing that termination
agreement is probably fairly unlikely and, therefore, prevents the situation as Mr.
Rountree earlier suggested that once the valve gets tumed on, it in all likelihood would
not be turned off. So, the remedies for nonpayment, the remedies for failure to perform,
essentially, go without a hammer, so to speak, in bringing the -- the -- in meeting the
performance expectations as written in a contract. So, I think I have captured at least
the Council's concerns and with that, hopefully, we can move through this issue with
some direction to staff and also the association.
De Weerd: Thank you, Tom. Council?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: As difficult as this continues to be, I come down on the side of wanting to
continue towards a resolution, which would mean putting more staff time into it. And,
again, my concem is this is not the last one of these we are going to get and the more
we -- the more we can do to get it right with this group, the better off we will be when the
situation comes up with other groups. So, I -- I think I'm at the point of saying we seem
to have captured the problems and I would be supportive of more staff time in trying to
solve it.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Zaremba.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: And this is not a fun position to be, because we don't have many options up
here as the -- and your clients. This is a -- this is a shotgun marriage if I have ever seen
one. And from my perspective I think we are going to have to move forward and staff
continue to find a way to make this work, but there is a lot of work to be done to answer
some of the questions that Councilman Rountree, for example, raised. Very good
Meridian City Council
March 10, 2009
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questions on what are those fees going to be? How do they protect our current rate
payers and the use of that capacity that may impact folks that we have already annexed
and have agreed to provide to them when they build out and those are -- that's going to
take some time, but I think we probably have to move forward and see if we can find
some answers to that and work with you guys on making that happen and -- and I don't
believe that we should hold neighborhoods hostage to a price that is exorbitant to what
-- because they have no other options. But it has to be fair and reasonable to all parties
involved and I don't know what that is and, Mr. Barry, you and your folks will have to
give us some guidance on that and then -- and, then, if I'm satisfied forme, then, I might
be able to move forward with that. But we are going to have to take a close look at that
to see if that works.
De Weerd: And it will need to be in short order. Other comments?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I agree with Councilman Zaremba in terms of, you know, ultimately, we are
going to be a part of the solution here and I would encourage staff to continue to look for
answers to -- and work towards a solution. I am not in favor of it being, in terms of -- as
Brad indicated, a shotgun wedding. I'm not about ready to go out and buy the ring yet.
So, I think we spend some time -- again, answer some of these questions. I mean they
are real issues to me and I think everybody else on both sides. How can the sewer
district -- what mechanisms do they have to monitor flow, meter flow, tum flow on and
off if payment's not made, so they can make the city whole for the services. If this is a
term deal, what happens at the end of the term? We are not going to shut it off. Does it
result in a short press battle about the City of Meridian annexing the 280 some people
that don't want to be part of the city? I don't know. That's for some -- whatever we do,
we are creating for a future Council I predict. And I don't want to leave them with some
of the things that I have had to deal with over the years from other councils and some of
my own decisions. So, I want some good, clean answers to some of these questions,
so I can say comfortably, yeah, I think that's probably a reasonable solution. Let's craft
those in some contractual language and move forward. Or if we can't get some clean
solutions to some of these things, we will continue to try to hammer them out. But the
bottom line, it's all coming down to money and the creation of a sewer district and their
ability to generate finances to provide the services to their customers and, ultimately,
the service that we will provide that entity, not those individuals. So, Tom, again, from
my perspective, continue to work with Steve and Val and see if we can answer some of
the questions and I think they will have some better information as soon as they get the
reviewing done and as they move towards establishment of the sewer district. I know
time is short, but we work on some fairly short fuses around here at times, so if -- if we
have to talk about this on a weekly basis as to what the status of things are, then, we
will do that. But get me some more answers, as opposed to suppositions and that's
where I am, continuing to work on it.
Meridian City Council
March 10, 2009
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De Weerd: I guess I would ask if staff could start working on what an agreement would
look like and ask that you work with our representatives about an annexation plan and a
timeline, bring back examples of what others are doing that extend services beyond
their city that's in partnerships with another entity to provide those services and see if --
I think, Tom, you had mentioned some charge the same thing they charge their
residents. But look at if there is an opportunity to recoup that lost hook-up fee over a
period of time and if it's legal. I don't know. But I guess those are the kind of questions
that I know have been struggled with since we started the discussions on we charge a
hook-up fee to every other hook-up we receive. And this is a hook up. So, how do we
recoup those costs and what is the appropriate vehicle to do so. Is it after a period of
time when that renewal is made or is it during those monthly installments or what? And
so I think what this Council needs are examples of what they can do, what others have
done, and what would an agreement look like and, then, the last one is that annexation
question. Because, again, the policy of the city has been if we extend services you
annex. And this is inconsistent with that policy as well. So, those are some of the
things that we need. We know the time is short and certainly as you heard Councilman
Rountree, if we have to listen to this every week until May, they will do that. And we
have it on the record. We will remind them. You said it.
Rountree: That would be great.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Not to add a complication, but I agree that at some point the end result does
need to be annexation, because that is a requirement of services. I can see delaying
that, because we certainly have Public Works issues about annexing. The complication
I would add is at some point we probably need to know everything that needs to be
done for this area to qualify for annexation, which means that we need to involve
planning and zoning staff and probably fire and police as well, to really give us an idea
of what is it going to cost your people to annex. Some of that may have already been
done, but it does need to be included.
De Weerd: And when I said plans, that is --
Zaremba: Okay.
De Weerd: -- all part of it. And I know that planning has been working with us as well
for some time through various iterations as well, so -- okay. Mr. West and staff, do you
have enough direction at this point to move to that next step?
West: I think so, Madam Mayor, and I appreciate that. We are going to move forward
and answer questions for Rountree, even look at what else is being done and -- as well
as the rest of the Council -- and take a look at what's being done in other parts of the
valley and move forward to answer your question of what an agreement would look like
Meridian City Council
March 10, 2009
Page 20 of 59
and come back with potential solutions to the problem that have been identified, that
perhaps if I may suggest given the timing, move that forward as a potential agreement
document that would be considered and address the concerns that you're looking at
having addressed.
De Weerd: I think that's fine, Mr. West. But, again, what you have heard tonight is not
nothing new. The Council continues to reiterate the issues they have expressed every
time we talk about this. So, just looking for more information and a good solid plan.
And if -- if you can work on that through the development of agreements, so that all
those things are included in that, then, that's great.
West: Thank you very much for your time.
B. Public Works Department:
1. Reimbursement Agreement with Linder 109 for 21 inch
Sewer Trunk from Overland Road to Ten Mile Road for
$226,212.00:
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Item 6-B is our Public Works director -- or Department.
Director. Or is it Kyle?
Barry: Madam Mayor, Member of the Council, we have before you under department
reports two agreements for discussion this evening between the city and JLJ
Enterprises. Mr. Jewett is here to address questions and perhaps make a statement on
these two issues. You know, late -- and I apologize, but late this week we put on the
agenda for your consideration a -- essentially a reconsideration of an agreement that
you had approved last week. In that agreement for the reimbursement of services in the
Overland Road, we had put a condition under Section E of the agreement that required
that the developer was going to provide proof to the city that the developer had secured
a letter of credit guaranteeing the completion of the Overland Road realignment project.
This was to -- that was to be provided to ACRD so that ACRD had what they needed in
order to move forward with the full project. He was to -- or the developer was to provide
this evidence by March 13th of 2009. We had only today gotten response from Mr.
Jewett as it related to his concerns associated upon final signing of the agreement with
these changes or with that change -- I shouldn't say change, but with that condition that
he wanted a financial surety which was acceptable to ACHD, instead of the letter of
credit and we have submitted that change to you I believe in memo form and -- and this
evening I had several exchanges with Mr. Jewett via a-mail to get his concurrence on
this revision before it was brought to you and I was unable to obtain concurrence and,
therefore, was going to recommend removing this back off of the agenda for
consideration. The reason this particular agreement is on this evening and was -- well,
it was on last week for consideration, is that it is one of several associated with the city
and JLJ Enterprises in that vicinity and it was, essentially, an agreement that Public
Works staff wanted to have worked out before we addressed any other agreements for
reimbursement of projects in that vicinity. Since Mr. Jewett has not agreed with this
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March 10, 2009
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change, it is likely that we will get to March 13th without that condition being met and,
therefore, termination of that agreement, which, then, cascades to the other agreement,
which is on your agenda this evening, that being for reimbursement for the Linder 109
21 inch sewer trunk from Overland Road to Ten Mile Road, since the two are somewhat
tied together. So, Public Works staff would recommend if we cannot get to agreement
on the minor modification as presented to you in that memo this evening associated
with the changing of a letter of credit to financial surety acceptable to ACHD, that we
postpone consideration of the second reimbursement agreement, so that staff can work
with Mr. Jewett to figure out exactly what his issues and concerns are, because up until
now we thought we had all of those resolved. So, I don't know if you want to hear from
Mr. Jewett on these two issues, but that would be Public Work's position at this point
would be to pull both of those off for consideration this evening.
De Weerd: Question for Mr. Bang?
Bird: Let's hear from him.
De Weerd: Mr. Jewett.
Jewett: First time here in this new place. You want my name for the record?
De Weerd: Please.
Jewett: Jim Jewett, 1560 Carol Street, Meridian, Idaho.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Jewett: Madam Mayor, Council, I think there is just some confusion going back and
forth. My issue with the a-mails with Mr. Bany this evening was simply on the 13th. It's
the 10th. If -- if the agreement -- everything isn't dated on the 13th, whether I sign
tomorrow, if you agree to it, the change tonight, would be null and void on Friday and it
seems to be moot to do that when the possibility is 50/50 that all paperwork will get to
ACHD by Friday. Our plan is Thursday, but -- and the real issue comes down.to -- we
are well aware, you know, the financial markets have gone downhill since last fall and
it's a constant battle for us in this industry every day to make sure we keep all the
financial institutions on the right track and to date, you know, our bank, us, are still fully
committed to complete Overland Road, even though we have pulled back on every
aspect of South Ridge other than that. That is what we are proceeding forward with
now without any other construction -- any other residential lots a we are not putting
anything else on the market right now, we are pulling back to just the simple public
works project to get it finished. Last summer when -- when this agreement was first
negotiated with Public Works, it was made clear to me by your Public Works director to
his credit, that in the past some of the ordinances had not been followed and he had to
turn some people away and say, song, we can't reimburse you. We can't afford that.
You know, we need the reimbursement to what agreements are and as such I need to
make sure the agreements are something that we can all live with. If I sign something
Meridian Ciry Council
March 10, 2009
Page 22 of 59
that I know that might be null and void in three days, it seems kind of mute to go back
and start it all over again. So, what I simply asked staff late this evening was simply to
tie the reimbursement into the completion by the June 30th date, which is what is
worded in the other agreement we have. It's tied to that completion. And certainly
everyone understands that ACHD is not going to allow us to put the water line in until
they have the paperwork for the road. That's their right of way now and they are not
going to let us go in there. So, there wouldn't be reimbursement if the water line never
goes in. And that's a worst case scenario. But to tie it to a three day out window seems
to be short changing the process when, really, the goal is completion by June 30th,
open by June 30th. And so all I ask that you somehow modify it to simply read that the
reimbursement is tied to the same verbiage in the sewer agreement, which is
completion by June 30th.
De Weerd: I don't think that's a big issue. 1 know Council wanted to have a date that
the expectation would be completed by. If that's the acceptable language for ACHD as
well, I -- but your comment about that you started your discussion with, you know, some
might take exception to it. You would get paid if you followed the processes and
policies that are outlined and so with that being said I just think -- Council is that small
change something that you can live with? It doesn't change the intent of the discussion
that was expressed last week.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: The important date to me is the completion by June 30th. I -- whether or not
we have to specify what date ACHD gets all of their paperwork, I guess I'm not so hard
nosed about that one. But if -- if we have all clarified that however it gets done, this is
completed by June 30th, that's enough forme.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Either a clarification from Tom or Bill on this particular section of the
agreement and maybe Gary plays into this, too, but was this something that ACHD
stipulated a number of months ago and, therefore, we included -- and is the March date
a magic date or could that be March 17th or 24th or some other date?
Barry: Madam Mayor, President Rountree, the language on March 13th is under
Section E, which was a condition required of Mr. Jewett to insure on our part, on behalf
of the city, that he had fulfilled his duties to ACRD to allow ACHD with certainty to
continue the Overland Road construction project as a full five lane roadway, as opposed
to pulling back and only incorporating a two lane road through the -- through the --
through Mr. Jewett's property. So, we have received -- staff had evidence an a-mail
from Gary Inselman from ACHD saying that he was considering pulling the project back,
Meridian City Council
March 10, 2009
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because Mr. Jewett had failed to provide a letter of credit or financial surety that would
give ACRD certainty that they could build a five width roadway and, of course, that five
width roadway has impact to water services as to where it's located, whether it's in the
roadway or outside the roadway, a two lane road versus a five lane wide road and so
we wanted, as a performance guarantee by Mr. Jewett, to incorporate language that
obligated him to, essentially, commit fully with ACRD on the Overland Road project and
Mr. Inselman had said that to do so Mr. Jewett needed to submit to ACRD some weeks
back a letter of credit guaranteeing the roadway improvements. That has failed to
happen and I have tried working with Mr. Inselman to come up with a mechanism that
would encourage Mr. Jewett to execute his obligation to ACRD, which we are,
obviously, tied to for water services. So, last week we had put the date of March 13th.
Council had approved the agreement. It was with the March 13th deadline and on
March 14th staff worked to get the final agreement back in front of Mr. Jewett with some
of the very few modifications that had been made, so that he was comfortable before we
executed the agreement. He was somewhat in -- out of reach over the last of couple
days until very recently where we were trying to work diligently this evening to get his
agreement to change this letter of credit requirement at Mr. Jewett's request to the
language submitted tonight, financial surety acceptable to ACHD to give him flexibility
that the surety could be something other than a letter of credit. So, the fact that Mr.
Jewett is claiming that three days is insufficient, I would agree somewhat with.
However, this was supposed to have been completed last week, which we gave him ten
days to do. So, because we are delayed on that, the March 13th deadline is now
compromised potentially. Could that shift? Potentially it could shift at the Council's
direction. Our concern on staff is that at what point is the deadline date for ACHD? You
know, we just don't have what we need for Mr. Jewett and we are just going to build a
road as a two lane road, in which case the value to the city is less than the value of the
five lane road and, therefore, is tied to the reimbursement agreement.
De Weerd: I guess we can ask Gary to comment.
Rountree: Gary's here.
Barry: Great.
De Weerd: Nice to see you.
Inselman: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you for being here. If you will state your name for the record.
Inselman: Gary Inselman representing Ada County Highway District, 3775 North
Adams, Garden City.
De Weerd: Thank you.
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March 10, 2009
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Inselman: Madam Mayor, our agreement with Mr. Jewett has a completion date of
October 31st. The -- so, you know, his commitment to the city to complete it by June
30th is just fine with us. It is for half of the project that we anticipated, but it still gets the
realignment portion of the road completed. The issue with financial surety is we do
need that before we can allow him to begin construction, because once it starts we can
guarantee that we can finish it if there is a default on their part. I did have a
conversation with your Public Works Department today about, you know, a letter of
credit versus another form of financial surety and that's what we have been trying to
work out with Mr. Jewett. The dates keep kind of slipping, so that's prompted an a-mail
from me to Mr. Jewett a week or two ago. You know, we are seeing reduced revenues
and some budget constraints and I wanted some assurance of when we may see that,
because I do have money budgeted to this project in this fiscal year that if it's not going
to happen, could go to other projects or be used to do what we could on our own to try
and make a connection there. But we certainly have had no plans made or approved by
our commission to do anything other than what our agreement with Mr. Jewett is today.
Do you have any other specific questions?
De Weerd: Council, any other questions?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Have you been given any deadline by your commission to say on this date
we are going to move this money?
Inselman: Councilman Zaremba, I have not.
Zaremba: Okay.
Inselman: We want to see this project happen as much as anybody else. It's just that,
you know, I'm trying to work with Mr. Jewett to get a date when we will see this. It was
last October, then, December, then January, February, March. At some point we will
reach a point where he wouldn't be able to complete the construction and we would
have to look at other alternatives.
Zaremba: I will ask everybody individually, I guess. But if we propose the new deadline
was one more week to the March 20th, is that a deal breaker?
Inselman: Not for ACHD. The project they will build at this time I think if they started in
May we would still be fine to complete it by the end of June.
Zaremba: Okay. I'll ask the same question of Mr. Jewett, then, I will ask it of Mr. Barry.
De Weerd: Thank you, Gary.
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March 10, 2009
Page 25 of 59
Bird: Thanks, Gary.
Zaremba: Can you live with March 20th as a deadline?
Jewett: Well, let me clarify that with a few more clarifications. First of all, we did issue a
letter of credit to ACHD for the bridge construction and the bridge construction has been
ongoing for several months now. It's in the backfill stage right now, to try to get a March
15 deadline from the irrigation company. So, we -- we have moved forward with
segments of it. Instead of doing it as one big package, we are taking it in smaller
packages. Let me explain to you what the difference between the different sureties and
why it may be problematic. In the current state of our -- the banks, to issue a letter of
credit they, essentially, want to double lend the money. They want to say, okay, you
have -- let's just use a million and a half as a round number. They want a million to
build the road, okay, here is your million and a half. But if you want to issue acredit --
or acredit for 110 percent, then, we need to have collateral for another million six fifty.
And that in today's market is just not doable. And that in past markets has never been
required. You have cash, a letter of credit is backed by the cash, but today's market
they want that double. So, that's where the problem where we simple propose giving
ACHD the cash saying -- and you would distribute it back to us as the project proceeds.
Simple. ACHD's agreed to it. The bank needs this agreement to finalize the budget.
Budget. Budget. Budget. They need this agreement to know what's coming back from
the city on the water main, so they can finish the budget and approve it. It's really that
simple. So, when I say I need time, I need time from when this agreement is signed for
the bank to approve the budget and issue the approval and, then, the check will be cut
and sent over to ACHD. They will hold the money for the water main and when the
water main is finished they will do it. It's really that simple. That's why I say I can't sign
the agreement that I have potential of failure. Failure is not an option to me. It's not.
Zaremba: While I'm -- I'm sensitive to it would probably fail by the 13th, but can you get
all this done by the 20th? One more week.
Jewett: I can't -- I don't believe I can sign an agreement that says the 20th. I believe
that we might be into April. So, if I sign something that says the 20th, the 21 st I have a
null and void agreement.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Mr. Jewett's already indicated he'd like language in here that the completion
date is June 30th. I think that's something that we have all looked forward to. I would
propose that we put language in Item E and that the language state that prior to the
start of construction in 2009, the developer shall provide surety to ACHD. That's not a
date certain, but you will. But the date is you're going to be done by June 30th or you're
not going to get any of this.
Meridian City Council
March 10, 2009
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Bird: I second that.
Hoaglun: I third it.
Jewett: See you later.
Rountree: Thanks, Jim. I hope you were someplace fun.
De Weerd: Okay.
Rountree: Does that work for you, Bill?
Nary: Absolutely.
De Weerd: I heard a first and a second and a third.
Zaremba: And a fourth.
De Weerd: Okay. We had a motion last week and Council did you need to make any
changes to that? Or was it your desire to?
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, what we were simply seeking was your
direction, which I think your motion covers that, but you probably actually need to vote.
De Weerd: Well, it wasn't really a motion either.
Nary: But I think that was the only issue left was this date and what's satisfactory to
ACHD. It sounds like that's something that can be worked out. The June 30th date was
the critical one. So, I think we just need some finality to that and I think it's the same for
the -- for both of these agreements and so we can get it done.
De Weerd: Okay. So, would you like to make a motion, Mr. Rountree?
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I would move that we change the condition E-1 and remove
the date and add the verbiage that prior to the start of construction in 2009 the
developer shall secure finance or surety acceptable to ACHD, etc., and that we also
include in this -- this agreement already has the June 30th completion date in it, if I'm
not mistaken, so that's --
Nary: That's correct.
Rountree: All right. So, that's the end of my motion.
Meridian City Council
March 10, 2009
Page 27 of 59
Bird: I second that.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second. Any discussion?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Zaremba: Is that covering both item B-1 and 2 or just one?
Bird: No.
Rountree: That's -- that's --
Bird: You're just covering one.
Zaremba: Which one?
Rountree: That would be --that would be B-2.
Bird: We'll have to do one by itself.
Zaremba: Okay. Just wanted to clarify.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other discussion? Okay. Madam Clerk.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. We did add another item to department reports.
Bird: Madam Mayor --
Rountree: Madam Mayor, we -- that was, actually, ahead. We need to -- we need an
action on 6-B-1 and I have a question for Kyle or Tom, either one. I think that's already
been agreed to by Mr. Jewett, so I would not -- I would move that we approve the
agreement in item 6-B-1.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. Any discussion? Anything on that?
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March 10, 2009
Page 28 of 59
Barry: Madam Mayor, we were going to hold that agreement up until we got resolution
to the first one that you just got resolution to, so we are fine with moving that back on
and moving forward and it has been signed by Mr. Jewett. So was the one last week.
But we are proposing now that you can consider that and make a motion on it.
De Weerd: Any discussion by Council? Okay. Hearing none, Madam Clerk.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
C. Purchasing Department:
1. City Hall Enhancements:
De Weerd: Okay. Item 6-C we moved to the end of the agenda.
Item 7: Items Moved from Consent Agenda:
De Weerd: There were no items moved from the Consent Agenda.
Item 8: Continued Public Hearing from November 25, 2008: AZ 08-005
Request for Annexation and Zoning of 73.10 acres from RUT in Ada
County to R-15 (Medium High Density Residential) (5.68 acres), L-O
(Limited Office) (3.22 acres) and C-C (Community Business) (30.72 acres)
and C-G (General Retail and Service Commercial) (33.47 acres) zoning
districts for Meridian and Amity by Hawkins Companies -Northwest
Comer of West Amity Road and South Meridian Road:
Item 9: Continued Public Hearing from November 25, 2008: VAR 08-008
Request for a Variance to UDC 11-3H-4 which prohibits new approaches
from directly accessing a state highway to allow 2 right-in /right-out
access points (approximately 660 feet from the north and south
intersections) and 1 right-in /right-out /left-in access point at the'/ mile to
State Highway 69 /Meridian Road for Meridian and Amity by Hawkins
Companies - NWC of W. Amity Road and S. Meridian Road, south of
Harris Street:
De Weerd: Items 8 and 9 have been requested to continue to June 2nd, 2009.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Meridian City Council
March 10, 2009
Page 29 of 59
Zaremba: I move that we continue Items 8 and 9 to our regularly scheduled meeting of
June 2nd, 2009.
Rountree: Second.
Hoaglun: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to continue Items 8 and 9 to June 2nd. All
those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 10: Continued Public Hearing from February 24, 2009: AZ 08-014
Request for Annexation and Zoning of 2.74 acres from RUT district in Ada
County to the L-O district for Kinds Conc>IreAation Church by King's
Congregation -1201 E. Victory Road:
De Weerd: Item 10 is a continued public hearing from February 4th on AZ 08-014. I will
ask for staff comments.
Canning: Madam Mayor, the applicant had requested on Items 8 and 9 that the
applications be continued to June 2nd.
Rountree: We just did that.
De Weerd: We just did that.
Canning: Did you already do that? Am I -- song.
De Weerd: But we appreciate you --
Canning: Sony. My head computer had turned off. I had to focus on it momentarily. I
apologize. This is the King's Congregation project. It's located at 1201 East Victory
Road and the applications before you tonight are annexation and zoning of 2.74 acres
and they are requesting L-O zoning. The church is currently operating at the existing
7,000 square foot building and it formerly housed the grange hall. You may know that
icon out there. The applicant has submitted a conceptual site plan and building
elevations showing how the site is proposed to be developed and it is in phases. They
would use the existing building in their first phase and this dark line indicates the extent
of the first phase that they would improve the parking lots and the landscaping and,
then, the second phase would include a new 42,500 square foot building on the
southern portion of the site. This is the first phase elevations and the changes they
would make to the existing grange hall. They are doing a new color scheme and, then,
and blue metal roof is existing. And, then, the second phase the new structure, this is
what it would look like and they have kind of designed it to compliment that better than
the existing 7,000 square foot building. The Commission recommended approval at
Meridian City Council
March 10, 2009
Page 30 of 59
their January 15th, 2009, public hearing. Ty Momson and Allen Burrows spoke in favor
of the application. No one spoke in opposition, commented, or provided any written
testimony. There were no key items of discussion by the Commission. There were no
changes to staffs initial recommendation and to our knowledge there are no outstanding
issues before City Council and we have not received any written testimony since the
staff report was forwarded to City Council. With that I will answer any questions Mayor
and Council may have.
De Weerd: Thank you, Anna. Council, any questions for staff at this time?
Rountree: I have none.
Bird: I have none.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I have one mostly irrelevant question, but what happened to the grange?
Canning: The first building is the grange. That is the grange -- existing grange. What
happened to them, I don't know, sir. I thought you meant the building.
Zaremba: The association --
Canning: I'm not sure. Perhaps the applicants could tell you.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Question for Anna. This really goes beyond their request for annexation and
zoning, but I look and see their plans of 42,000 square plus -- foot plus building on 2.74
acres. Is there going to be enough parking for that?
Canning: It's sufficient parking to meet our code and you can see that they have got a
fair amount of parking around the building. It does meet our code.
Hoaglun: It does meet code. Okay. Great. Thank you.
De Weerd: Would the applicant like to make comment? Please state your name and
address.
Momson: Madam Mayor, Councilmen, my name is Ty Morrison. I represent King's
Congregation Church as the applicant. Obviously, we have no issues with the
recommendation that's before you this evening. In answer to Councilman Zaremba's
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March 10, 2009
Page 31 of 59
question what happened to the grange, the grange is still there and they are sitting out
there right now. The issue was kind of a complicated one that had to do with the fact
that the county no longer would grant the grange tax exemption and for various reasons
an offer was proposed to King's Congregation to purchase the building and we
conditioned that option on seeking the approval for annexation and rezoning of the
property into the city. And I kind of tongue in cheek am pleased to say that we will
connect to the sewer and the water.
Zaremba: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Another way to say it, thank God.
Morrison: About the only other thing that I would like to state is that we have submitted
a project in two phases in part because of the requirements for annexation and zoning.
We certainly have plans for the first phase and we certainly understand the first phase
and we are willing to enter into a development agreement with the City of Meridian that
would condition the second phase of the project. However, we, at least at this point in
time, have no need or desire to expand to the second phase, so the second phase
represented one of those rare opportunities to design a what if, as opposed to a what
we want, and, you know, as we hammer out the development agreement, we recognize
that at some point in the future we may have to come back in for a slightly scaled back
version of phase two. This does represent the maximum that we could develop on the -
- on the site, so we chose to present that for consideration.
De Weerd: I thought our biggest question was going to be where are we going to hold
elections.
Canning: Madam Mayor, I did want to say -- I was talking to staff today, that I think that
this is one of -- actually, an exceptional example of how an existing property that doesn't
meet all of our codes thought about how they could bring it in incrementally and meet
those codes and address the things that the city was looking for while, basically, kind of
holding off or phasing in improvements on the rest of the property and I did want to
compliment the applicant and whoever is helping them, that they did a really nice job
thinking about what the city might need in addition to what they would need.
De Weerd: That's high praise.
Morrison: I appreciate that. I don't get that very often.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions?
Rountree: I have none.
Bird: I have none.
Meridian City Council
March 10, 2009
Page 32 of 59
De Weerd: Thank you very much. This is a public hearing. Is there anyone who would
like to provide testimony on this application?
Silva: If I may add just a clarification to a part that we called out in the staff report that
due to the age of the building there may be some concems and this was specified in the
staff report, that we may have some concems about the exiting systems that lead out of
the basement. So, we just requested a condition of annexation that the exiting systems
be brought up to the current standard.
Canning: Madam Mayor, might I ask the fire marshal a question?
De Weerd: Yes.
Canning: Mr. Silva, are you saying that needs to be added or you're just pointing out to
the applicant that that was one of your conditions?
Silva: I just want to point out the clarification that that may need to be added with
respect to the exiting out of the -- and particularly out of the basement, because of the
size of the basement, the building's unsprinklered, and the travel distance to the existing
exit.
De Weerd: Okay. And did you have that comment as a written comment and have you
been in discussion with the applicant?
Silva: We have not been in discussion with the applicant lately. We had been -- there
had been a phone call from the applicant previously -- or a representative, I believe,
from -- representing the applicant some time ago, and they had indicated they were
going to do some sort of analysis with it, but I have not to date seen anything yet. We
would be willing to work with them to come up with a time schedule to, you know, meet
any of those requirements. Item 3.9 on the report.
De Weerd: Okay.
Morrison: Madam Mayor, Councilmen, Mr. Silva, we are aware of that requirement. We
have met with the -- a representative of the city fire department and discussed the fact
that the current exiting in the building leaves a little bit to be desired. And we do
understand that those are -- that that is a condition that we would need to satisfy. Our
understanding is that that would be a requirement that would have to be satisfied as
part of the, A, development agreement and, B, the certificate of zoning compliance that
we still have as an issue to resolve.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Any other questions for the applicant? Thank you
see no further testimony. Mrs. Canning, do you have any further statement?
Canning: No, ma'am. The applicant did mention there is a development agreement.
We are recommending that.
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March 10, 2009
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De Weerd: Very good. Council, if there is no further information needed, I would
entertain a motion to close.
Rountree: So moved.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close Item No. 10. All those in favor say
aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we approve the request on Item 10, AZ 08-014, subject to staff
and applicant's comments.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Hearing none, Madam
Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
C. Purchasing Department:
1. City Hall Enhancements:
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. We did move department reports to the end of our
agenda and seeing that Mr. Watts is here, I will go ahead and ask for under department
reports, Item C, our purchasing department regarding City Hall enhancement.
Watts: Good evening, Madam Mayor, Council Members.
De Weerd: Got your tour all done and --
Watts: I did. It went well. Thank you. Everybody was very impressed. They were --
they thoroughly enjoyed the tour. Thank you for the proclamation, by the way. That
was much appreciated.
Meridian City Council
March 10, 2009
Page 34 of 59
De Weerd: You bet.
Watts: Tonight I am trying to bring all of the wish list items together in one -- in one
report. I have Eric here tonight and I believe Ed is on his way as well, in case you have
questions for them. I have, essentially, turned the construction and the maintaining of
these items over to Ed and Eric, but I have been the keeper of this list thus far. And if
you have any items that we do not have on, we will be happy to add them to our list
tonight as well. And Jaycee is passing out the list to you right now that -- this is a
combination of the list that Eric, Ed, and myself have had. The items that are listed on
the list in red have been completed. There are several on here that we do not have firm
costs on, but we have on the list just for yeas and nays to move forward or not -- with
pricing as well. The first one is the microphones in that multi-purpose room up front
when you first walk in the door, at one point I know Will Berg had talked about getting
wireless microphones in there for other agencies to use and we don't have a spec on it
at this point. If Council would like we can move forward with getting quotes and specs
on those microphones and what it would take to run that room from a separate
standpoint from the clerk's equipment.
Holman: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Mr. Watts, I believe, if I understand
with limited knowledge of electronics, the way this system works -- we have a rack in
that closet and there is a section that looks like a receiver where you tune the digital
mikes and we have digital mikes for this room. What we have already in that little room
that's kind of like the observation into MUBs, there is a rack mounted up in the ceiling
that's about a quarter of the size of this one here, which runs the audio-visual in those
two rooms and my assumption would be it would be in addition to that system, but I
would think some of that -- a good deal of that cost was already -- we have already
vested that in the system that's mounted. It runs those two rooms. But that's just --
that's how I think it would work.
Watts: I believe that is correct. That's -- what I was saying, in addition to what we have
already. There are jacks in the walls in there -- I believe actually in the wall. It's a hard
mounted jack system for microphones and other items in there.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: That's not real high priority with me.
Bird: Second.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor, it sounds like something that would be nice at sometime in
the future. I guess my question would be are they going to operate independently, so
that there could be a meeting in both rooms using microphones?
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March 10, 2009
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Watts: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilman Zaremba, I believe so,
because the way we walked through the system there is two different digital tuners and
one is for each of the mikes. That's what we have here. We actually have two different
ones, so I would assume that that's what we could do in that room also and, then, have
one that's dedicated to each room. But, again, that's a guess on my part.
De Weerd: And I guess I would echo the other Council Members comments. Those
are small enough when they are divided into two and not that large that someone can't
hear what's being said.
Watts: Agreed.
De Weerd: Not a high priority.
Watts: Okay. I will put that on hold until further notice
was changing of the light fixtures in the plaza from the
high pressure sodium. That was discussed at one
Estimated cost on that was merely 20,000 dollars.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
Item number three on my list
bright white light to the yellow
point. It's been put on hold.
De Weerd: I guess it ruins the ambiance during an evening performance, but, you
know, at this point, until even we look at LEDs and solar type of options --
Hoaglun: That would be my comment, Madam Mayor. You know, unless there is some
energy savings there to offset the cost of that, I think we can wait on that.
De Weerd: I would have been nice if we could have done it right the first time, but --
Watts: Correct. Item four I have on here was the heated water for the entry pools. We
put that on hold. That had been discussed to possibly put something like cattle trough
heaters in to try to keep it just from -- just from reaching the freezing point. As you
know, that was not done this winter and we did have a period where the reflecting pools
froze over. If you would like, we can instruct staff to move forward to get pricing on a
low cost option to possibly heat those pools. It would -- from talking with the people
who designed it and our own staff, it would be a trial and error process of relatively very
inexpensive cattle trough heaters. Something similar to that.
Hoaglun: And, Madam Mayor, those go on sale during the spring at D&B, so --
Bird: And they work about half the time.
Rountree: And on Tuesdays you can get senior prices.
De Weerd: You're getting a lot of help here. I guess the ancillary question here is are
the pumps designed to run year around?
Meridian City Council
March 10, 2009
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Watts: I don't believe that was an issue when we have discussed this -- the pumps -- as
long as the water didn't freeze it wasn't going to affect the pumps at all.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Rountree: You know, we can debate all one hundred of these things on here, but it
seems to me that this one -- we take the water out of the system in the winter, winterize
it and be done with it. We are spending a lot of money on energy pumping that water
and now we are going to spend some more energy heating it. I'd say let's get it out of
the system and not have the sidewalks get splashed on and icy, because, then, we are
going to start putting heating elements in the sidewalks and on and on and on and on.
De Weerd: You must be in a better mood this week. Okay. That's no.
Watts: Okay.
Rountree: For me.
Watts: Item five deals with some card swipes and I believe Bill Nary has some
information on the card swipes that he could share with you.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, we have talked about these before.
These are the card readers' access. There is some that we have considered to be
higher priority. One of them is the -- in the basement there is a women's locker room. A
number of women have asked if we could put a card reader on that. We do have
contractors in the building that have access to the basement and, of course, employees
have access to the basement. And the number of women that approached me about it
were concerned about safety and security, at least in the locker room. We don't have
any card reader on the workout room, because you have to have access to the
basement to use it. We haven't had an issue of security in that area yet. I think I did
request Mr. Jensen to see when -- it could be a cost to adding a window to that door,
but that would probably at least help with the security. I think the last time we spoke
about this the biggest priority security concerns that we had for the card readers was
both for this -- the chambers here, there is no security at all for this room from the lobby
and, then, second -- and so when there are events here that are not city events, there is
no one that -- that can -- there is no way to prevent access into this room with all the
equipment and such that's in here. And, then, the other one we have talked about a
number of times and we -- I would like to at least price out the cost of -- it appears at
least for my office there is a plate. I don't know if there is any wiring attached to the
plate. It appears that somehow contemplated to put a card reader for our front door of
my office and it never was installed. So, there is a plat in the wall. I don't know if there
is wiring. We would like to have some security. We have no front door security for my
office. There is three doors that access the rest of my office and the files and such, that
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every night have to be locked by my staff and the custodial staff to be sure that nobody
can access the sensitive information we may have. And secondary --
De Weerd: Mr. Nary, you want to just go over which locations you're recommending. If
Council has any questions on why any of those places are in there, then, we will ask for
more detail.
Nary: Certainly. The primary ones that we have discussed a number of times are my
office, the Mayor's office, and the Council chambers and, again, the women's locker
room in the basement. I think those are the biggest priorities. There is a number other
ones that at some point in time it might make some sense to have more of a plan from a
budgetary standpoint, but right now I think those are the priority areas.
De Weerd: Okay.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Zaremba: If putting the card reader on these sets of double doors is part of the thought,
then, that solves a question I was going to ask and that's this second hallway over here.
You need a card reader to get into it from the first hallway, but you don't need a card
reader to walk in from here. So, I -- I have been curious about that and if we are putting
them on those doors, then, that solves that problem.
Nary: The intent of this -- the reason this door doesn't require it is because it's an exit
door for fire. But, yeah, without it having on these front doors, you're right, there is not --
but once you get into that hallway without a card reader you can't get anywhere --
Zaremba: Right.
Nary: -- except to exit out again. The Council conference room here, it has a key lock
door, they can't -- as long as the door is locked in there, can't access in there. But this
is the one that's been the concern, because, again, if we have activities or events here
that aren't city events, there is no city staff here.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Hoaglun: Mr. Nary. So, these doors cannot be locked -- I mean as they are configured
now --
Nary: No.
Hoaglun: -- they cannot be locked?
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Watts: You would have to add hardware to it. They don't have a locking mechanism on
the handles as they are.
Bird: They have a -- you can lock them from the inside.
Watts: Yeah.
Bird: The panic hardware can be locked down and you can't get in from the outside.
Watts: You can?
Rountree: Got to have a little wrench.
Watts: Is that with a dogging key, Mr. Bird?
Bird: Yeah.
Watts: Yeah.
Bird: You can lock them down and, then, they can't get in from the outside.
Jensen: I also had another location that I was kind of putting in priority when I talked to
Keith and that would be the janitorial closet downstairs and the big reason for that is
right now we have the janitorial staff taking keys home at night and by putting a card
reader there they would gain access to the building through a card and into that that
would be a recorded event and say if they were let go or didn't show up for work, the
card could simply be shut off and we wouldn't have a key out there that would -- in order
to really make the building secure again we'd have to do a lock change out. And with
that card access that we'd ultimately provide better security for the building with a
recorded event.
Watts: Yeah. We would be -- the city would be experiencing the cost of eliminating the
cards, rather than being concerned that we have actual keys out there.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any comments on this? Move on? Okay with it?
Zaremba: Yeah. I would move it ahead.
De Weerd: Okay.
Rountree: I would get costs, because we still need to sit down and say, you know,
what's a priority.
De Weerd: Well -- and that -- if we can get through this list we will drop off what you
nixed and, then, bring a completed with costs back.
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Rountree: Okay.
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Watts.
Watts: Number nine I'm going to need just a minute. Item number nine we are going to
have to get additional information on. It appears it has been approved from -- but I will
get information and bring that back. We jump to item 11, which were additional rooftop
lights that were suggested to flood the wings of the building.
De Weerd: No.
Rountree: No.
Watts: Okay. Number 14 was the remainder of the signage revisions, which had been
already approved and put in place and the sign contractor has told us all signage will be
completed by the end of this month. Number 18 is the HVAC vent relocations for
various departments. It was estimated at 15,000 dollars by Petra to move floor boxes
and possibly the VAB boxes. I will -- I will ask Ed and Eric to comment on this at all. I
don't believe we are having nearly the complaints that we had when we first moved in,
but Ed would know that -- I mean, excuse me, Eric.
Jensen: Through educating the occupants of the building, we have been able to
eliminate a lot of that, for them to understand the migration of the heat from the outside
to the center, you know, during the heating season and we have moved a number of the
vents with the temporary help that is familiar with the building. We have probably
accomplished about 70 percent of it. They did that, along with a few other tasks for
around 2,000 dollars, I believe, is what we have spent so far in accomplishing that at
this time. I would think we would be looking at maybe another 1,500 tops to complete
any other items that would be needed to -- for these vent relocations right now.
Watts: So, in order to accomplish this as staff we would have to hire Labor Ready back
I believe is what Eric is saying, for around 1,500 dollars to come back and move the
additional vents.
De Weerd: So, 1,500 versus 15,000.
Watts: That is correct, Madam Mayor.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor, I'm in favor of making the staff as comfortable as we can. I
think that's a fair amount to spend for that.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other comments? Okay. Move on. Thank you, Eric.
Watts: The next item is the -- the electrical block -- or boxes in the small grassy area
out in the plaza. I spoke with Ed on this and we have not yet a price on that, but we
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wanted to get a price on lowering those boxes in ground. Besides being an eye sore, I
just think they are a trip hazard the way they are set up right now and I don't understand
why there were built that way to start with.
De Weerd: I don't either.
Watts: And we have electrical boxes on a four-by-four post that sticks up about six
inches off the ground -- six to eight inches off the ground. There has got to be eight to
ten of them out there in that small grassy area.
Hoaglun: That's one of those that if they would have done it right the first time it would
have been fine. They just didn't do it right.
Watts: And we will move forward with getting prices and we'll bring that back. The next
item is -- that one's -- I'm going to go to number 37. That is -- I think it's from the -- it's
the etched glass for the city clerk's area behind the reception area. I do have one quote
so far for- approximately 2,400 dollars and that is for the glass, the framing, the etching.
There is still a separate price. I'm awaiting a second quote from another manufacturer
-- or contractor as well and I will bring those prices back to you for a yea or nay once I
get the second quote.
De Weerd: Okay.
Watts: Number 38 is the -- the noise that we hear up in the third floor lobby in front of
the Mayor's area, which is estimated -- or anticipated to be corrected with a blanket or
insulation up in the ceiling around the piping, I believe, and I will let Ed just talk about
this as well.
De Weerd: And is that the -- in the art gallery the loud --
Watts: Correct. Yes.
Jensen: Exhaust fan number two is what it's referred to on the mechanical drawings.
De Weerd: Okay.
Ankenman: Yes. They make a blanket to cover that. It helps -- it's a sound blanket
with insulation in it. It's designed to keep the noise from emitting past the unit and we
anticipate if we put that on we can eliminate a lot of the noise in that area.
De Weerd: Wouldn't that be considered a design flaw? I mean that was for a livable
workable space. You know, why wouldn't they have sound proofed it?
Watts: Madam Mayor, I agree. I view that as the same as you do. We have met with
the contractor and the architect and determined that they bid -- built it exactly as it was
designed. I have a hard time with -- with the contractor just walking away from it,
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because that's what was on the paper, even though it still is making a loud noise. I can
see the contractor's point of view as well, as he -- he bid it and constructed it as
designed and I agree it is a design flaw.
Bird: Maybe we need to talk to the mechanical engineer that designed it, let them help
pay for it.
Jensen: Madam Mayor, Council, I had a conversation today with the commissioning
agent Chuck Hem with Heery, the one that the city hired in commissioning this building
and this item came up and that's something that he has taken some interest in in also
pushing back on the engineering and seeing if there is some other options or if they will
accept some of the responsibility is what was discussed today. I'm supposed to follow
up with an a-mail to him and he was going to see what avenues he would have to take
for the city.
De Weerd: Thank you. If you can provide that update when you bring this back.
Watts: We will do so. Thank you. The next item is number 39. This is for a hoist for
the artwork that the arts commission has commissioned for the main lobby. The artist
has -- had came back to the city and recommended that we put a hoist or a winch
system in to be able to lower the artwork for cleaning and I believe there was also some
safety issues, possibly, with it as well. Originally he wanted to put a winch in and they
thought that they could absorb the cost of a winch in the cost that -- for the entire art
piece. After researching it was more expensive than they thought. The artist would like
the city to pick up the cost for that hoist. They had to move from a winch to a hoist for
an amount of 2,300 dollars. Just roughly right at 2,300 dollars.
De Weerd: I thought it was the city's recommendation that they move from --
Watts: The artist actually brought that to us. They had put a piece in in the Seattle
airport, I believe it is, and they had commented how dirty it was and they recommended
that we put a winch in to bring it down for cleaning.
Jensen: Madam Mayor, on that item they originally had proposed a hand type of winch,
which we requested at the time the -- an electrical one, but they hadn't looked into the
specs on it and for safety it had to be an actual hoist, not unlike something you would
use in a fabrication shop, because it would be -- you would have the same risk as
somebody working underneath a hanging object. This will also have an additional
safety cable as a backup, but it could not be just a free wheeling winch assembly, it has
to actually be a hoist for the safety concerns.
De Weerd: But this is for the maintenance and -- of this piece, it's not part of the art, it's
part of the building.
Watts: It is not a part of the art piece. It is for the maintenance of the art piece.
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De Weerd: Okay.
Watts: The city's mechanical engineer also, Jen Stapley, has also reviewed the hoist
and the specifications and she agrees with what the artist has proposed.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Bird: Is 2,300 a solid price, Keith, or is that a guess?
Watts: Yeah. I believe it was like 2,295, Mr. Bird.
Bird: I think it's a good buy myself.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I think we did previously discuss this
when the arts commission did their update for you. And I do agree that part of the
concem was the safety aspect as well. I think the 2,300, to be honest, is really just the
cost of the device. I mean the installation of it is going to be done with the art piece, but
it is really the cost of the actual device itself and that's what the artist couldn't afford to
absorb that in addition, but they are installing it as part of the art. It is a safety concern.
This is a 1,500 pound art object hanging in the lobby. So, any additional -- any
additional assistance we can have to assure it's not going to fall I think is a good thing.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Bill, is this artist a qualified installer of something like this? You just hit it. That's a
heck of a liability for everybody that walks in the building here. I'd feel a lot more
comfortable if I had a -- if it was engineered and I knew exactly -- I thought this had all
been engineered and the right amount of -- size hoist and everything was done and it
would have to be wired up, it will have to have controls and --
Watts: It has been, Mr. Bird. The artist actually has their own engineer who engineered
the design for this and -- but we did also run it through our own mechanical -- or
structural engineer who worked on our building as well and got their approval as well.
Jensen: Councilman Bird, we also at the same meeting had requested that they --
since it is a welded piece that they have the welds inspected by an independent source.
We are trying to cover all the aspects, since it is in a public building to protect the city.
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Bird: Because we are looking at quite a liability, so let's make sure we do it right.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I would add one more complication and that is that the controls to operate it
should be in a secure area.
Jensen: Councilman Zaremba, those will be, actually, in the ceiling out of the public
reach. It is -- it will be on an SO cord, which you will, actually, remove the ceiling, bring
that out, so -- and it will also be in the balcony area, so the person operating those
controls is able to observe the movement of the piece and hopefully eliminate any
injury, but, yes, it will be in a secure location.
Zaremba: The public won't have access to the controls.
Jensen: Not unless they start removing ceiling. We had originally thought about putting
a key switch on the wall, but that would, actually, cost more and really not make it any
more convenient, so we went with the conventional crank controls.
Zaremba: Thank you.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor, does this mean that when I attend my first arts commission
meeting tomorrow afternoon as Council liaison I can deliver good news?
De Weerd: Absolutely.
Hoaglun: We are going to cover this cost.
De Weerd: Yeah. We will let you get off on the right foot. Okay, Keith.
Watts: Thank you. The next item is a thermostat up on the third floor. With the
redesign of the third floor area there was a thermostat that was neglected or missed or
just not designed in Robert Simison's office upstairs. He is the only office in the building
without a thermostat.
De Weerd: Ah, it's only Robert.
Watts: And we have to investigate to see if we need more than a thermostat. There
may be other things that we'd have to buy as well.
Ankenman: Yeah. On the thermostats in that particular area that one thermostat is in
the copy room and it runs the heat box in the copy room, besides the heat box in
Robert's office. And right he has to go in the copy room, turn it up or down, and it just
makes sense to put it where he can use it. And I don't think that we have a lot of
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expense there, but it all depends on whether or not the cable is long enough to reroute
from one office column to the next just right beside it and we have not investigated that
to see if it is, in fact, long enough. If it is it's real insignificant. If it's not, we will have to
get a longer cable, because they area full length cables, they are not spliced.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: If I'm understanding what you just said, is we already have the equipment,
you just need to relocate it.
Ankenman: That's correct.
Zaremba: That works forme.
De Weerd: Okay.
Watts: Thank you. The next item was brought to me by Lila Hill. She has informed me
that the -- the temperature and the humidity down in their storage area in the basement
is not sufficient for their documents. She would like to be able to keep that area cooler.
We have not investigated this any further. I knew it was going to be quite an expense
that -- that she was saying that we have -- Ed and I have come up with responsibly
putting a unit in that's like the units that are in our elevator control rooms in the
basement.
Hoaglun: Do we know, Madam Mayor and Keith, what the requirements are for properly
storing documents and exactly what the -- I mean in the basement there shouldn't be a
lot of fluctuation and kind of measure that to see are we within that range to begin with
or is it just a preference to bring that down some more?
Watts: I don't have any official documentation on what astorage -- historical document
storage area requires. Lila had just told me that her -- she had document that were
curling and peeling and she was concerned about what would happen later on in the
summer.
Holman: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I will be happy to call the state
archivist tomorrow and find out what their standards are for their storage.
De Weerd: That would be good, because, as I recall, a portion of this was being stored
in the basement of the Idaho Independent Bank and I don't see how our basement's
going to be too much different from what their basement was, so, yeah, Jaycee, if you
could look into that and see if ours is that much different.
Watts: We will do that, Madam Mayor. Thank you. I'll get that information from Jaycee
and, then, we will -- we will document what we actually have in our basement.
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De Weerd: Okay. Does that sound reasonable?
Bird: Yeah. That sounds good to me.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: But, then, the second question would be whether we need to build into the
system -- if we do need to change something, do we need to build in a system or is
there a movable plug-in system that could be --
Watts: I believe it would be an add on. I don't believe there is anything in the -- within
the building that we would be able to do in that area. Because humidity is also an issue
with her.
De Weerd: What is?
Watts: Humidity.
Bird: We can definitely figure out how much the humidity is. It just takes alittle -- I can
get you a little tester.
Watts: We will get that information and bring that back. Yeah. These next items I'm
going to let Ed describe these and go over those with you.
Ankenman: Madam Mayor and Council, I have on here some items that I have listed.
The exterior paint on the roof and the miscellaneous steel, our architect is telling us that
they did not have a paint spec for some of the miscellaneous items up on our upper roof
areas. For example, we have structural steel holding up our chiller. We have some
miscellaneous metal holding up brick facades and some of those items needs to be
coated and for some reason that got missed and so we had our painters give us a quote
and that's a pretty firm quote, I believe, of 1,910 dollars to get all that coated. Basically,
to keep it from rusting and enhance the lifetime of the -- of the items up there.
De Weerd: Any questions on this?
Rountree: I guess do we know it's not Corten steel and it's supposed to rust?
Bird: I thought it was, but --
Ankenman: No. I believe it is -- it's a mild steel, square tubing.
Bird: Oh. Okay.
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Ankenman: A lot of their structural brackets and things like that that hold the chiller up
are just mild steel, something they weld on all the time.
De Weerd: Go ahead.
Ankenman: The next item, item number 48, is -- I have listed a need for an I box for a
backup unit. We seem to be having considerable amount of trouble with our I box units
and we have six of them in our working areas throughout the three floors, just one for
each half of the building per floor and right now we have one in for service and we don't
have control over how the air handling units work without the I box sending signals back
to the Yamas controller and Eric has got a real good handle on that if you want to add to
that, Eric.
Jensen: Well, the -- currently, all six are operating. We have had two failures since
November and they seem to have a high failure rate. What happens is when that I box
fails, it continues to operate, but we are not able to see into our front end controls. The
only way that you're -- the only way that they are operating at the time is through the
wall stats, so that the system's compromised while we are waiting for them. The last
one took us a little over -- right at two months to get replaced, waiting, because they
carry one in stock, the company does here in town, but since we had two fail, they -- we
were without one of the I boxes for about two months.
De Weerd: Council, any questions on this one?
Bird: Madam Mayor, I do. On these I boxes, how come -- is it a design flaw or what --
what is going on that we keep losing them?
Jensen: It's -- well, it's the electric -- it's the brain that actually runs your floor units that
communicates with our Yamas front end. The -- I haven't heard anything outside of
what were experienced locally in this building. I do know that -- that same company is
doing the Idaho Power building up in Valley county and they have gone away from the I
box configuration where staff has the actual communication to the front end and they
have eliminated the I box since. So, I would -- my guess would be that the I boxes was
not really the best design. They have since changed to where the thermostat is actually
smart enough to communicate to the front end. But that's what we have is an I box and
we are kind of stuck with it.
Bird: I think you're probably right, Eric.
De Weerd: Okay. So, no issue on this? Okay. I would have an issue on this next one.
What is -- what is that? Is that my window?
Ankenman: Yes.
De Weerd: Well, I don't think it's the city's responsibility.
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Ankenman: And I've listed I think we can hold this against our CM that did the work
there. We cannot pinpoint who damaged the windows in your office area and your
conference room. They are damaged and we have that as verified from Custom Glass,
they have come out and taken a look at them and they said it was due to the
construction and nobody's caught them until now and Custom Glass is -- we'd like that
replaced and --
De Weerd: They were caught -- they were caught at the walk through.
Watts: Yeah.
Bird: Custom Glass should replace them. They are getting away with it.
Watts: Custom is claiming that they were installed without any flaws that -- that cutting
of the steel studs has thrown elements onto the glass and has pitted those glass.
Bird: That -- those look like hot flecks have been put to it. Where were you welding
when you had the glass in? I can tell you it can come from the factory that same way.
They can stand behind their -- behind their job. Have we held enough retainage?
Watts: Yes, sir.
Bird: Well, tell them -- call Sheldon and tell him to get over here and get them replaced.
De Weerd: Yeah.
Bird: And I will be glad to if you don't want to.
De Weerd: What he said. Okay. Council, do you have any issues with the next firoo?
think we have talked about -- I know at least 51, but, if not, we can go to next page.
Bird: A phone in the penthouse is what you're talking about, Mayor?
De Weerd: Fifty or fifty-one.
Bird: I have a problem with that. Eight hundred dollars to put a piece of glass and
frame in that door down there, I'd like to do them all day.
De Weerd: No, we can't hire you.
Bird: I don't know where you come up with that price, but I'm glad the company's doing
pretty well.
Ankenman: Councilman Bird, that's -- excuse me. That's just an estimate. We didn't
get a hard bid on that one. And I was pressured in time and I did not -- I just give a
ballpark estimate. That -- we probably can do a better job than that.
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Bird: What do we -- what do we need a phone in the penthouse for?
Ankenman: I was just concerned about security up there. Sometimes we are up there
without a cell phone and if someone was to get hurt, it's a floor and a half down before
we get someone -- we can get a phone up there. It just -- it's more for a safety reason.
Watts: I think we also discussed that if you had somebody up on the penthouse and
somebody in another location in the building and they were working back and forth, they
could have communication, rather than going up and down the stairs.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor, I have a dumb question. What's the penthouse?
Jensen: The mechanical room.
De Weerd: The mechanical room on top.
Zaremba: All right.
Jensen: I would have to say that that's probably more the generous estimate on what
that's going to cost. I have talked to Terry in IT. There is a chance of kind of back
feeding through our controller that runs the building systems. A small chance that we
might be able to do it a little cheaper that way and we just really haven't investigated
that thoroughly. Worst case would be to bring a line out of the third floor north corn
room, which depending upon how hard that would be, we could possibly even do it in
house. It would just take a little longer time.
De Weerd: Okay. Just make sure if anyone goes up there they have to have a cell
phone. Safety first.
Jensen: Mayor and Council, there is one item that's not on here that I wanted to bring
up and that is currently we have the generator that sits out there and has a -- an
ovemde button that anybody can push and the generator will not operate. We have had
that happen several times and that's done for safety reasons, but we don't even know if
it's been compromised unless somebody happens to walk by the electrical room in the
basement and hears the alarm going off there. The building controls we have, the
Yamas controls, have line capabilities and one of them is -- I got an estimate for 1,500
and what they will do is tie into the enunciator off the generator and those alarms would
send a text to my cell phone 24-7 if that's been shut off, if the generator's running, which
would tell you that you had a power failure and the generator's running. It would also
log the generator run time when it -- when that is happening and, in addition, it also will,
then, text as to operations of all the mechanical systems in the building, which if we had
a --the data errors go down in the server room, it would send a high temp alarm, so that
when they are unoccupied nobody's here on the weekends you would receive
notification that there is a high temp in that room and be able to address that issue. So,
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what it really does is give you 24-7 monitoring of all the building's critical systems and
for 1,500 dollars I thought it would be a really good investment for the city.
De Weerd: Council, any question on that?
Rountree: Makes sense to me.
De Weerd: Okay.
Ankenman: Okay. Item number 52 is -- we have that set of stairways going from the
third and a half floor up to the penthouse area where the mechanical room is there.
None of that sheetrock got finished and the stairs never got painted. They still have just
the -- the plain metal on that and we could -- we could do this in house. I think that
needs to be finished up and dressed up as that's considered part of our building and
part of our -- our overall look. And I just think that something like that is not a priority by
any means, but I think it needs to be addressed sooner or later, so we can get it
finished. The sooner we get this finished up the better it will look and -- and if we wait it
could continue to deteriorate and may cost more down the line. Again, the amount
there we just put an approximate -- we could probably get by for -- you know, if we was
to -- to do it in house with some labor ready guy, we could probably do it for a few
hundred dollars, instead of 1,500. So, that would be a consideration.
Watts: And it is -- right now it is bare sheetrock with no texture or anything and it is dark
in there. I think part of it was to brighten it up and make it a little bit brighter inside there
as well.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Are you going to paint the metal stairs, too? Is that what it -- is that -- so, this is
going to be an ongoing yearly thing?
Ankenman: Well, there is the stair treads. The rails.
Bird: Yeah. Oh, the rails, not the actual treads. Oh. Okay. Yeah. I understand that,
then.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor. You're going to -- you're going to tape the sheetrock. Has
that been done?
Ankenman: Yes. It's been fire taped.
Hoaglun: And, then, you're going to texture it or just go ahead and prime it and paint it?
Ankenman: I think we should just seal it and paint it.
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Hoaglun: Okay. Yeah.
Ankenman: It doesn't need to be done fancy, but right now it's unfinished.
De Weerd: Okay.
Watts: Okay. We will move forward with that.
Ankenman: And, then, the last item that I had listed was the barrel roof trusses and we
have some outstanding issues that I have real heartburn about. On the -- on the barrel
roof trusses we have metal that just didn't match, they have gaps in it. It just looks
horrible and I'm ashamed that it -- it's up there and finished the way they want it
finished. This is -- this is something that we need to discuss on someone else's dime to
fix this, because it's just not done correctly. I'm not happy with how -- the roundness of
the arch facing out front looks. It looks like it's bent and it should be -- look all the same
and I don't know what it takes to get it that way, but I'm just not happy with how that
looks and that's why it's listed here is this was a concern that I have. And now is the
time to get this fixed.
Bird: Have you -- have you discussed this with LCA -- and I agree with you a hundred
percent, Ed. I think it's just crap, to put it bluntly. Why -- why the architect and
construction manager accepted that is beyond my belief. I -- that's something that --
and this is where it goes back to the retainage of who installed it, have we got enough
money held out, which, you know, we jump on Keith for not getting it out and, then, we
jump on him if he did send it out. So, it's between a hard and the rock. But, anyway, I
think we need to have a sit down with the Mayor and the Council and the architect and
the construction manager and get that thing taken care of, because that is not
acceptable work, Ed. I wholeheartedly agree with you. I -- it just -- it's a poor way to
finish out a 25 million dollar building, in my opinion.
Watts: Mr. Bird, Madam Mayor, Council Members, I would also like to add another item
to that same -- along that same line. I know it is not visual, but the two main beams that
run along our barrel all the way back, I haven't been up in quite some time. I know they
were going to attempt to make it look decent, but it is extremely wavy all the way down.
It was -- it didn't look like it was sealed for water at the time. I think we definitely --
before we have that sit down meeting we need go up there and take some pictures and
make notes and bring that up as well, because I'm not sure if they have corrected it, but
the last time I did, it did not look very well.
Jensen: The gaps into those welds up there, the only direction I had received from
Petra was that was a springtime. They were going to actually caulk those gaps when
the weather had stabilized, but that is all I had heard for resolution to some of that poor
work on that.
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March 10, 2009
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Bird: They are going to try to cover up their crappy work with -- with caulking? You got
to be kidding me.
Watts: I had not heard that, but that would not be acceptable, and I can't imagine LCA
would accept that either. I sure hope they don't.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Are those beams purely decorative or do they actually have a purpose to
support something?
Ankenman: They are -- Councilman Zaremba, they are structural beams. They -- the
barrel trusses go from end to end and they hold the gable -- or the -- the fascia together
and the trusses are welded into this piece and it just comes down and hangs down and
for some reason --
Zaremba: And if they are poorly welded they are not doing their support job.
Ankenman: Well, Idon't -- I'm not saying they are poorly welded, I think they are
probably doing their job, but they didn't line them up and so when you look down
through there, there is one that's here, there is one that's here, and, then, they didn't line
the ends of the trusses up, so you have got them going this way, too. So, you got to go
this way and this way, in and out and up and down, and it's horrible and I'm
embarrassed that it's that way.
Watts: Madam Mayor and Council Members, I'd also like to add to the record that we
pointed this out extremely early on during construction and continue to bring this up with
our construction manager time and again. I mean this was -- this was brought up way
before we had any walls up, when they were actually putting that barrel up and it was
brought up when John Anderson was here and I hounded John about it for months and
never did get resolve on what they were going to do to correct. Like I said, I have not
been up there for months, but I would like to get up on the roof again and take a look
and see if they have done anything, but it sounds like they haven't.
De Weerd: Well, it sounds like you need to bring us back that and the barrel issues
that --
Watts: Correct.
De Weerd: The barrel trusses or whatever they were.
Watts: Thank you.
Meridian City Council
March 10, 2009
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De Weerd: Council, on item number 54, the interpretive panels. This is for the
interpretive panels in the plaza, not on the wood panels -- the three wood panel things
in the plaza. I don't know what they are. I don't know. I did ask Keith Watts to find out
what those are, because, you know, tasked --
Bird: They aren't even supposed to be --
De Weerd: No, they are not. The interpretive panels -- we had some of the committee
members from the Generations Plaza historical interpretive panels that are in that little
pocket park together today. LCA had mapped out locations based on the amenities in
the plaza and where the sign postings should be and they listed five locations. We have
kind of moved two of those locations to other ones, but the estimated price tags -- you
have listed on your sheet and what we would like to do is get those ordered -- they will
be 30 by 36, I think. I turned off my computer, otherwise, I could tell you. But it will be
the same material that was used in Generations Plaza, because of --
Bird: From Noel Webber?
De Weerd: Yes. And because of the angle it's going to have to withstand the elements,
the heat and freezing, so they thought that those were the -- the best materials to use.
Mike Barton of the Parks Department was there and will work on how to best support
those. But this is the cost estimate and we -- we would like to order those now so that
we could have those available before the concerts in the -- the amphitheater are here in
June, so --
Bird: Has anybody talked to Noel Webber down at Plastic Signs?
De Weerd: Yes. Walt Lundgren talked to him today.
Bird: Okay.
Watts: Madam Mayor, Council Members, I would like to add -- I know this dollar amount
is on here on this wish list, but this was part of the original design from the beginning
and I don't think they just ever got the verbiage and the specs to actually do it earlier on,
but it was actually intended to be in the plaza from the beginning.
De Weerd: Well, the interpretive signs were -- and, then, those -- those wood things,
I'm not sure -- and I know that was kind of another project that Will was working on. I
asked HPC, the Historical Preservation Commission, if they were working on what
would go on there, because I think what was once envisioned that that would have the
creamery kind of historically depicted, if I remember correctly, and HPC said they -- they
had not been asked to work on it. Walt -- Walt Lundgren and Frank Thomason. So, I
don't know who is working on it.
Watts: It was a good chance that that had gotten dropped, Madam Mayor. I'm not sure
what was originally to go on those as well. And I have vague remember -- or
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March 10, 2009
Page 53 of 59
recollection that it was supposed to be something from a historical value. I do know the
wood in there actually came out of the creamery. The wood that was on those signs
actually came out of the creamery, so it is the actual wood from it.
De Weerd: Those are the wood beams.
Watts: Correct. And that is portions of that as the two-by-sixes that were taken off the
roofing that was in there.
De Weerd: Okay.
Bird: You sure -- you sure it wasn't Lila and Terry Smith? That's who did the
Generations.
De Weerd: No. Lila was in the meeting today as well. So, I -and she didn't say
anything either.
Bird: Well, she -- her and Terry are the ones that did and the ones that -- I took down to
Noel Webber and introduced.
De Weerd: Yeah.
Simison: Madam Mayor, City Council, I did talk with Steve Simmons today with LCA
and he did indicate that the -- the three wood -- wood structures that are currently in
existence were envisioned to be something that would be put together that would talk
about the creamery specifically. That was what was envisioned, but it was never tasked
and that it talked about some sort of ceramic thing and, then, having it encased in
something. So, I didn't talk to them about what the cost to finish those panels would be.
In the end it can be whatever the city wants it to be, that that was just what was
envisioned in that space and no one has been tasked to go forward and come up with it
at this point in time from LCA. They were never instructed to do anything beyond what
was up there. So, it would be given to somebody to figure out what to do.
De Weerd: Okay. And that we would bring back at some later date. I don't think for
those -- the priority is as high as to really put a teaming opportunity on why the design
elements were what they are in the plaza and have that available when that park is in its
highest use. Yes, Keith.
Watts: I had a vague recollection
could be a possibility that this tie
the creamery that was there.
required to do any of that for LEE
bell with me. So, I will check.
-- I don't have any facts to substantiate it, but there
d in with the LEED somehow for public notification of
will check with our LEED people to see if we are
D. I don't know for sure, but for some reason it rings a
De Weerd: Well, just --
Meridian City Council
March 10, 2009
Page 54 of 59
Bird: We are going to do it anyway, let's go.
De Weerd: Just to let you know on the five that will be done, there is one for the
irrigation aspect, one for the village aspect that would use the tree boss and the Five
Mile Creek and the settling. The urban -- the inter-urban and rail for the -- the rail lines.
The creamery itself and also a placard that's close to the doors that would talk about the
transportation from past to future through the sustainability. So, we will have some
LEED piece to each of those in some degree. If that might satisfy it, otherwise, I do
know they wanted to have some kind of historical salute to the creamery and -- and I -
knowing now that those are the beams, that's what those things were for.
Watts: Thank you.
De Weerd: I just didn't know they were envisioned like that. Robert, do you want to talk
about this last piece, which -- or the artwork? Okay. Keith.
Watts: Okay. Madam Mayor, Council Members, I do -- actually, I had one more that's
above there and this is -- this just came to me late this aftemoon through IT, that there
was a desire to be able to have the agenda and other information scroll on the LCD
screen out in the main lobby and IT has done some research and I believe in the last
couple of days and get a price for a computer and the software that would enable us to
do this. Mrs. Holman may be aware of this as well, but I got a number from the IT
department this aftemoon of 9,300 dollars for a PC and software to enable that monitor
to be able to scroll various information.
De Weerd: Can you just use the little thumb drive?
Hoaglun: I think that's more of a want than a need, though, Madam Mayor. I mean it
would be nice to have, but in the economic conditions we have right now, that's --
Rountree: The bulletin board --
Bird: Yeah.
Simison: It's 2,300 dollars -- it's not 9,300 dollars, it's 2,300 dollars for it and,
essentially, what -- the way it's designed is we don't have a way to operate that --
De Weerd: You need to talk into the microphone.
Simison: -- half of the cost is associated directly with trying to get it so that we can
actually do something with that. You're correct, it is -- it is a want, it's not a need, but
that's -- half the cost of that and half is the computer to operate the system. Ada
County's said that they would give us what they -- have you been in the courthouse,
their scrolling stuff, we can use their software. We don't have a software cost. It's,
actually, a computer cost and up to a thousand dollars is what Aatronics told us it would
Meridian City Council
March 10, 2009
Page 55 of 59
cost to get it off the system. There may be some other -- some other way that we can
reduce it, but that's just what they told us. So, up to 2,300 is what the thought is.
De Weerd: So, a thumb drive won't do it?
Simison: No. It doesn't have the inputs that allow it to be used in that fashion.
Hoaglun: If you can get it lower than 23, I might be convinced.
Bird: I think the -- I think the bulletin boards out there with the paper in do it very nicely.
Rountree: Right now.
Bird: That -- I -- we can use the 2,300 dollars in different places.
Zaremba: I would agree with that. I wouldn't drop it as a future, though.
Watts: We will keep it on our list and we just put a hold on it.
Hoaglun: If IT comes up with some spare computers down the road or something that
they can use and patch together -- yeah.
De Weerd: Don't we have some computers or --
Bird: Last time I was up there they had about 12 of them sitting around. I don't know.
De Weerd: If you could look into that.
Nary: Madam Mayor, they will. And I know Teny well enough to know if we have the
ability to do it, then, we do it. It may need acertain -- it may be the certain -- it may be
the type of need to run that and that may be what we don't have, so -- but we will
certainly look at it more.
De Weerd: Maybe go on Craig's List.
Rountree: Go to MPC tomorrow.
Watts: Yeah. That is a thought.
Nary: Not a good thought, no.
Watts: Madam Mayor, Council Members, the next item we have on here is the
department artwork that is -- the artwork for the department lobby, which was also part
of the original design from LCA. We have -- the dollar amounts listed by the department
here and I would like to point out that these dollar amounts are significantly lower than --
than what was originally planned for the area. We have redesigned it to --
Meridian City Council
March 10, 2009
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De Weerd: By a quarter -- it's about aquarter --
Watts: Yes. It's about a fourth of the original cost. That is correct, I believe.
De Weerd: And all the pictures you saw for each of the lobbies, they had that in the
background and what -- we took the frames off and -- and mounted them -- it is canvas
over wood frame.
Watts: With a foam core, rather than -- I believe, rather than aframed --
De Weerd: Yeah. With a foam core.
Watts: We do believe that this artwork could probably be framed in the future if the city
so chose to do that and we will try to guarantee that when we finalize this. I believe
after looking at these numbers that it's probably about a quarter of the original cost for
the design that was originally presented by LCA.
De Weerd: Any questions from Council?
Rountree: So, what's the status of -- to me it's --
De Weerd: It's just waiting for approval.
Watts: Yeah. We will move forward upon Council's authorization. The departments, I
believe, will be choosing their artwork along -- each individual department will chose the
artwork to go in their departments. That was what was originally envisioned.
Hoaglun: So, this is what was originally planned. It was budgeted for about 20,000
dollars. You reduced the cost. So, you want our approval that --
Watts: Correct.
Hoaglun: -- to spend less.
Watts: Correct, Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: How is that for spin?
Watts: That is correct, Councilman Hoaglun.
De Weerd: That's excellent spin.
Watts: It's on our wish list just because we have not done it yet, not that it wasn't
originally budgeted and planned for.
Meridian City Council
March 10, 2009
Page 57 of 59
Bird: Let's go for it. Get on it.
Hoaglun: That's -- get her done.
Watts: Thank you. The next item I'd like to thank Ed for. This is the wallpaper that's
been damaged up on the third floor by the lobby after trying to get Petra to -- to repair it
for the last six months. Ed has got the contractor agreeing to do it at no cost. So, we
will be taking care of that, I believe, by the end of next week.
De Weerd: Thank you, Ed.
Watts: The last four items are cubicles that has needed to be completed. One of the
issues was our -- was several of the cubicles that were designed were -- they were
designed by our architect and the furniture supplier bid them exactly as designed and in
the case of the finance, they have done some of it, but it was, essentially, dangerous. I
mean if you leaned on Kathy's desk, my assistant, the whole cubicle could fall down. I
mean it was pretty ridiculous and they have done some of the work and the remainder
of this is to finalize the 825 dollars to finish out the cubicles and make it the way it was --
that should have been done in the 1,190 dollars for finances to finish the cubicles in the
MUBs department where they are -- they look like they are half done, because there is
no front to any of them and no panels. Many of them half the work surfaces is not there.
I have confirmed that they -- they did supply what was speed. The clerk's --the cost for
the clerk's cubicle, there was originally a cubicle that was going to be in clerks, but when
I noticed the -- they weren't concerned about their cube, but -- at the time when we were
moving and the finance cube was about to fall down, so I scavenged what I could out of
the clerk's cubicle to make that one at least stand up for the time being. And, then, the
1,825 dollars is for the Parks Department. They put square cubicles against the
curvature of the back of the building and Rachel Myers and Greg in Parks have a six to
eight inch to up to 12 inch gap behind the cubicle where things just fall off behind the
wall and get stuck behind the wall. We looked at possibly moving those and, actually,
angling them with the wall, but it made their entry into their cubes only like 18 to 24
inches, which wasn't feasible.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions on this item?
Bird: No.
De Weerd: Okay.
Watts: Move forward with that also. Thank you. And we will -- when we are ready to
come back we will get it on the agenda as soon as we can with any outstanding
questions that we had. Oh, Eric has one more item for you.
Jensen: I had an item that didn't make it on this and that was -- that's for some of the
attic stocks for the maintenance of the building. Ceiling the we are pretty well out of with
all that has gone on and paint for touch up, which paint is -- covers very poorly, so it
Meridian City Council
March 10, 2009
Page 58 of 59
requires a lot, really, to do any repairs. Just miscellaneous items to have on hand in
order to maintain the building. It's looking around a 2,000 price tag to try to get that on
hand to avoid the inconvenience and unnecessary trips to acquire those items as they
come about.
De Weerd: Council, any issues?
Bird: I don't have any problem with it, but I would sure look in my bidding specs to see if
they were required to leave some paint or -- in fact, in the glass see if they weren't
required to have on hand some -- a percent of extra units for this job.
Watts: And, Mr. Bird, Madam Mayor, Petra has provided an attic stock list, I believe.
The reason we are needing to order ceiling panels is largely due to when we moved
Congressman Minnick in we changed out the light fixtures and did some things and
used up a large majority of our attic stock there. But I also have to think that some of it
was used up for our leaking roof, replacing our wet seal, leaking roof as well.
De Weerd: Well, if some of that was, we need to charge it back to them.
Watts: Correct.
Hoaglun: And I think we need to get the the before they discontinue that line and have
the right stuff on hand.
Watts: Exactly. That is our concern.
De Weerd: Yeah.
Bird: And your paint is the same thing.
Watts: Yeah. And I have a hard time --
De Weerd: And the painter, (mean --
Watts: I have a hard time calling back to my painter and asking him to provide more
attic stock. I mean I honestly believe we have had him do way more than what's called
for -- I know he -- he didn't eat the cost, because of us, but he probably ate the cost
from management, because every time somebody came in to do some work they would
scar the walls, mar them, or get fingerprints all over them and nobody made those guys
take care of it and so our -- our construction managers just dumped in on our painter to
come in and take care of it time and again.
De Weerd: Okay.
Watts: We will move forward with that as well. Thank you.
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March 10, 2009
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De Weerd: Thank you, all three of you. Council, we are at the end of our agenda.
would entertain a motion, if there is no further business in front of this Council.
Hoaglun: Move to adjourn.
Bird: Second.
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: All those in favor say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 9:56 P.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
MAYOR TA De WEERD
ATTEST:
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