HomeMy WebLinkAbout2009 03-09 Joint Ada CountyMeridian City Council Special Joint Meeting March 9, 2009
The Meridian City Council special joint meeting was called to order at 9:30 A.M.
on Monday, March 9, 2009 by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd, Keith Bird and Brad Hoaglun.
Members Absent: David Zaremba and Charlie Rountree.
Staff Present: Bill Nary, Jaycee Holman, Andrea Pogue, Anna Canning, Joe
Silva, Pete Friedman, Tom Bany, Robert Simison, Emily Kane.
Ada County Commissioners: Fred Tilman, Sharon Ullman, Rick Yzaquirre.
Item 1. Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
O David Zaremba X Brad Hoaglun
O Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
De Weerd: Well welcome to the City of Meridian's new facility and we hope to
see you take advantage of this and I know we have been in discussions with Dee
on utilizing it for a town hall meeting and hope we can help get the word out so it
is successful and we see you more often. Just for the record, we do have a
quorum of our County Commissioners. All three are present and we don't have a
quorum with our City Council Members. Councilman Bird and Councilman
Hoaglun are present. Councilman Zaremba and Rountree are absent. Welcome
and we launch into the agenda.
Item 2. Coordinating Capital Plans for Fire/EMS:
De Weerd: Unfortunately our Chief had asked to put this on and he is at the
Legislature this morning. They called a meeting, but we do have Deputy Chief
Joe Silva with us today and I don't know, Joe, if you can give a brief overview? I
will kind of kick it off and then maybe you can finish where I left off. We had Troy
Hagin in in December and he gave an update on what is going on and Council
had and I believe I sent you the minutes to the meeting sometime ago, but we did
want you know what was discussed at that meeting and some of the items that
the Council had brought up and questions for Troy and our desire to show a
cooperative and collaborative partnership with EMS and to start some
discussions on how we can start firming up and improving our relationships
through better communication and see how we can also coordinate better our
plans for our capital improvement plans and really start leveraging our taxpayer
dollars. So with that, I will tum it over to Joe.
Silva: I didn't have a chance or an opportunity to discuss (inaudible) that, so with
that behind us I just kind of wanted to let you know. One of the challenges
associated with delivering public safety services during in this case, what I would
perceive as being extended power outages. We don't have the ability to get fuel.
We have currently used the standard oil carts because there are standard oil
stations throughout our jurisdiction, so currently that. is how we fuel our vehicles.
One of the challenges associated with that is they have no backup power, so in
an extended power outage like we had back in, I think, 1995 or 1996, our
vehicles whether they are police vehicles, fire vehicles, ambulance or sheriffs
vehicles may be faced with some challenges associated with getting fuel. I think
that the reason why this was put on the agenda is to see whether or not we could
explore some partnership possibilities along these lines and whether or not we
could issue cards to be specific to an inventory number that we would know the
fuel is going into what vehicle and a tracking system similar to what we do with
our current card system. I think that may have been what the Chiefs intent was
with respect to this discussion on this item. The key thing being back up power
and more than one option to fuel and opens up another option to us for fueling
purposes.
De Weerd: I also understand in addition to that that the information that we got
back from Troy did not take into consideration how we can utilize our paramedics
when a new ambulance station is built. I think that was probably the most over
arching discussion item that we had when Troy was here and how we can start
utilizing that and maybe even allowing a one person ambulance so that our
paramedic is a second on in command and kind of defining some of those
procedures of when they arrive, how things can be better organized. So there is
less redundancy of process. So, I don't know, Council, if you had other items to
bring up?
Bird: I just had the email that we got from Deputy Chief Mark Niemeyer and that
was basically what it was Commissioners was is there a way that we could cut
costs for both of us by using our paramedics and having the ambulance running
with the EMT in our location because the paramedics have their same training
regardless of whether it is county or city or whatever. (Inaudible) with Boise too, I
think they have paramedics on every station don't they?
De Weerd: Not everyone.
Bird: Not now? We do. We have one on every shift at every station. That was
basically what it was. I will be glad to give you a copy of this if you want?
Tilman: Sure. I guess I will start on the fuel, refemng to the fact that we are
trying to potentially create a fuel station -
Silva: A fuel depot -
Tilman: -- right, where you folks would utilize it with police and basically all of the
Meridian vehicles I guess. We are moving a head with that. We have got
delayed a little bit. We had to go back on the first design. We didn't like it. It
was not meeting our needs and so we had to go back, select a different
engineer. We have done that and we are expected to have that redesign plan to
us very soon and at that point we would love to sit down particularly with the fire
folks to make sure that it meets your needs. But, the backup power part of it is
not something that we had thought about, at least to my knowledge. But, we will
definitely check on that and make sure that - it may be an issue in our whole site
over there because we have got an EMS station as well, our Weed and Pest
where we do have a lot of chemical storage too, so the back up power situation
may be something that we need to look at in our whole campus to make sure we
have some kind of a way of making sure that that fuel station is operational. I
don't think it would be that big of deal to draw that much, but as far as the card
procedure that you are talking about, I believe it is exactly what we use. It should
be very, very similar. It is my understanding that the software that they use
shouldn't be that big of a deal where you could -you may have a different card
than what you use at a Chevron Station, but hopefully they can figure out that
there are two different cards there.
Silva: The way I would envision that that would work out, Mr. Tilman, is that
probably only one of the stations typically would use that because we wouldn't
want to bring units out of there respective districts to fuel under routine
conditions, but I think it is really important to consider emergency power even
though it may not be part of that plan as this process moves forward, it is really
something that I would highly recommend that we give serious consideration to
the county if they can afford to that.
Tilman: But, I don't see that that is something - we will go back and talk to them
and make sure we have that issue taken under consideration when we actually
go up. Because they do have the money budgeted to build and we do want it
built this year for sure. But, like I said we got delayed a little bit because the first
design on it was a little bit over the top. I will just leave it at that. So, that seems
like it is an easy fix for us. How many of your vehicles want to use it that is up to
you. That is your operation. We would just simply make it available to whatever
will help you. That is kind of the way we looked at that. But, the back up power
is an issue that we will definitely take a look at. As you pointed out if the power
situation is such that even a lot of the other fuel stations aren't even available, at
least this one would be. So, you would then operationally maybe have to take
your vehicles over there to fuel.
Silva: That is correct. We have made arrangements. United Oil has offered to
deliver fuel to us, but what I envision is that business being what it is that they will
take it to their regular customers, where we are an emergency service, but not
one of their regular customers, they may be more apt to take care of their regular
customers first on a priority basis on an extended power outage, but we do have
arrangements for that. If something were to happen today, there is a much
longer time delay getting the driver, say for example on the weekend, back to the
yard and picking up a vehicle and getting back to our respective spots.
Tilman: Of course all of your vehicles do run on compressed natural gas, don't
they?
Silva: Uh, not yet sir.
Tilman: Just checking. As far as the EMS side of it, we would be happy to sit
down and work with you or whatever, but we have got certain requirements that
we have got to meet and one of the concerns, too, is you have got different
medical directors. Rather or not you want to adhere to our medical directors or if
you have got somebody that you want to set your own medication direction that
is one of the issues that have to be resolved and coordinated. But, we already
run the EMT's on some of the wagons with a paramedic just so you have got two
people there. As far as, I think, the capital side of it too we are in the process of
trying to get a couple more stations. One at Star, which we just let the bid on
that, which should help Ithink -right now a lot of that is being served either out
of Boise or from that Glenwood even and or what is available in Eagle, there is a
box there.
De Weerd: And off of Ten Mile.
Tilman: Well, and sometimes it might come out of the Ten Mile station, it just
depends on what is available. So that should help to some degree and make
some of those available to come the other direction, I think. So, we do have also
plans to look at some other locations and I can't tell you exactly where because
we haven't purchased the property yet, but to shore up that Ten Mile area with
the anticipation that sooner or later the Ten Mile Exchange will be built and that
will certainly give us an opportunity to go south. So we are looking at trying to
make sure that we have enough stations in the right locations, just like you guys
do with your fire. Your response time is different than ours and so sometimes
they don't necessarily match up the same.
De Weerd: You know the Ten Mile is going out to bid next month. The bonds
were sold and they are taking the overpass out. That is one of the discussions
that they have with Council and we would buy an additional year off the timeline
of that project and save considerable dollars. So, we said do it. So, they will not
have that north south access on Ten Mile, just the south side.
Tilman: Yeah. Let's hope that they get some of the others finished before they
do that, so at least you can go down the road one way -
De Weerd: -- and that was a criterion. They have to have those and I think they
were going to put in temporary signalization as well. Sharon did you have --?
Ullman: Yeah, a couple of comments. As far as the coordinating of the fuel
during power outages, we might want to get Ada, City, County Emergency
management involved because it won't be an issue just for you and just for us,
but for everybody else out there. So, we need to identify those facilities within
the county that can be accessible during power outage. I am certainly willing to
help coordinate that. Commissioner Tilman talked about different medical
directors. I would like to see consistent -you know if we could get everybody on
the county on board with either one medical director or at least standard
operating procedures that are accepted county wide -you know we have
different - we have Kuna doing their own thing. Boise is talking about doing their
own thing. You have got paramedics. We have got EMS, with EMT's and
paramedics. Everybody is kind of out there doing their own thing. If we can
create some consistency so that the delivery of services are saying to the benefit
of the public, I don't need to overlap. We don't need to duplicate. I am not sure
what it will look like in a couple of years, but I am trying to get everybody on
board, trying to get my feet wet and finding out what is going on at this point with
the Fire Chiefs. I know we have got some communications issues going to the
700 megahertz - I guess fire is having trouble communicating when there is
noise in the background and so there are fixes apparently that are available. But,
anyway I am happy to work with you all and see where we can go with that. I
think it is going to take some effort, some coordination, some time and energy
and a lot of buy in from everybody to make it work.
De Weerd: I did notice that the citing plan was drafted in 2005 and this is what
Troy had shared with us and he wanted to update that. So, we would love to
participate in that process as it relates to this part of county.
Tilman: Citing plan? What do you mean by that?
De Weerd: He had --
Tilman: -- where the stations are located? EMS stations?
De Weerd: Uh-huh. It is the citing plan, the overlap coverage stations, the
station relocations and that sort of thing.
Tilman: Just so you will know, too, we finally got approval to where the Eagle
Station will no longer be in the fire station. They kind of wanted their room, but it
looks like we are going to be able to partner with St. Luke's and so that will be
another change -shouldn't be that much of a change.
De Weerd: Well, that is very positive. I like the public private partnerships. We
have had a good partnership with the county at our Station No. 2.
Tilman: Well, it has worked well and the ones where we have some places that -
you know the population changes too which we all have to continually look at that
to see where we need to place them to meet the needs. The other thing is we
are very, very pleased with, I think even with Pine Street being punched through
and the station we have over there on Pine and then Locust Grove going over
there -that gives us a lot more flexibility too, even in the time that you are talking
about with the overpass coming up, Ten Mile. At least that will give us some
other options depending on where particular ambulances are located given time.
This gives us that much more flexibility. It will be challenging.
Bird: And to get back to what Sharon said we have had a committee going for
almost three years on this task force, which I think, Fred and Rick are probably
familiar with - we have gotten a little forward, but we have taken about three
steps backwards too. That was what is was is to get EMS districts.
Tilman: Districts? We already have a district.
Bird: Well, an EMS district (inaudible) is what they were proposing. The
counties were for it. I think you guys were the only ones.
De Weerd: I think there was some legislation out there right now and I believe
that is where Chief Anderson is right now.
Bird: That isn't the one that the task force brought forward.
De Weerd: Well there is a desire to get the cities and counties together and
finding a compromise because there was one piece of that legislation that had
some consternation to it and a potential conflict and so I think that is what they
are doing this morning is working together with the other parties on that
language. I don't know too much more. I do know a little, enough to be
dangerous.
Ullman: I would like to comment on that. I talked to Mayor Bieter about it. I
know the Boise Fire Chief says that he can provide EMS services better, faster
and cheaper, but has no particular plan. For us it is not about turf. It is about
provision of services, whether residents of Boise, residents of Meridian or all our
constituents as well and you know whoever does it we need to do it better, faster,
cheaper and we need to provide the best medical service we can at the most
affordable cost. So, again, this concept of all of us working together, we all need
to be sitting down, listening and coordinating and getting on the same page. I
don't know about my colleagues, but I am certainly not opposed to doing that.
We just need to move that effort forward and somebody is going to have to come
up with some sort of a plan or proposal that shows us it can be done better,
faster and cheaper. I haven't seen anything at this point. There is a lot of talk,
but nothing specific.
De Weerd: Well, as we noted in our meeting with Director Hagun, we want to
show that that can work and if we had to take a piece of our county first and work
with one fire district and show how we can create that kind of collaborative
model, we would love to be at the table and try and figure that out. If you would
like my office to help in coordinating that meeting to start those discussions, I
think Troy got a really good list from the Council in December and some of the
questions on our side, we would then like to know the questions on the other side
and start working towards that middle ground. When we started by adding
paramedics on our fire truck is because we had one ambulance over here, one
responder to EMS. If it presented an opportunity when we look at Station No. 4,
as we looked at staffing that, there was a little bit of an increase in our Firefighter
1's that we could train or hire paramedics, train as firefighters and put those
paramedics in each of our station with very little cost to our citizens because we
were adding those personnel anyway. It was a win, win situation in particular for
our citizens in looking at that enhanced level of service. So now that they are
there, we want to make sure that we have a good solid partnership with our
ambulance provider and we want to make sure, the Chief has said numerous
times, we can figure it that we are that paramedic support to a basic ambulance
driver, we will put them in that ambulance, take that fire engine out of service to
do that because we already do it anyway. We have been assisting in other
regards regardless so that engine is out of service, we might as well make it
leverage those resources to the greatest degree.
Tilman: I think to sum it up, you aren't going to find any resistance on the part of
the county to sit down and try to work with anybody. There never has been. So,
we would be happy to sit down and share and see what you have in mind or what
the plan is and move forward. I don't think you are ever going to find us being
resistant. We have some issues that we need to be cognizant of, you do too and
that is what we need to make sure -like the medical directors and there are
some legal issues involved that we need to walk through and make sure we do
this in a thoughtful manner, but I don't think you are going to find that we are the
one that is going to be the problem.
De Weerd: That is great. So, we will work with Commissioner Ullman.
Tilman: She is the liaison to the EMS Department.
De Weerd: And we will put that meeting -
Tilman: I just want you to know, she is only one vote.
De Weerd: I remind our Council that often.
Tilman: You remind them that there is only one vote that counts. But again, we
would be happy to sit down and visit with you. We do have certain plans and we
recognize that we have got some parts of the county that are our responsibilities
for the whole district, for the whole county and we recognize we have had some
areas that we have not been able to been able to meet service that we were
happy with. The Star area is a classic example and so we stepped up and I think
we have got that one resolved. So, anyway there is a lot of different things
because of the growth and all the things that have been happening that we need
to constantly sit down and take a look at what is the best way to provide the
service and you aren't going to find any resistance on our part to do that.
De Weerd: Does Eagle have paramedics on their engines?
Bird: No.
Yzaquirre: They call it 451. It is a suburban that responds with two people.
Bird: Are they paramedics?
Yzaquirre: Yeah, paramedic EMT's.
Tilman: Part of the problem that we are running with some of the places where
they are trying to be firemen and EMS people is if they are out on a fire, being a
fireman, then you have got some other challenges there, too, which are just
strictly operational, but all things are possible. But, there are some other main
issues too like particularly the medical directives and things like that. We have
tried to work very closely with the hospital and we think we have got everybody in
that environment pretty well in tune on what that directive should be and so that
is one of the big challenges to make sure that we are all - it doesn't matter who
is treating them it is has got to be through the EM's physicians that is making the
call on what needs to be done. That is -you know I think we all have different
medical directors and they seem to be in agreement, but it seems like the rest of
us can't seem to get there.
De Weerd: You know in often times the only way to eat an elephant is one bite
at a time and -
Tilman: -- oh, pick something else; I am tired of eating elephants.
De Weerd: Okay, donkeys. But I guess if we can show a model that works with
meeting the county's needs and our city's needs and that can be something that
we can show does work and we can look at a county wide initiative after that and
I appreciate your interest in moving forward and having the dialogue and seeing
what we can come up with. Thank you. Councilman Hoaglun do you have
anything?
Hoaglun: No, it looks good.
Item 3. Kentucky Ridge/Meridian Heights:
De Weerd: Okay, on this item I will ask Mr. Barry if he wants to give me an
overview on where we are at. I see that we have Mr. West here to also make
comment, but we though it was important to get an update and reiterate this is
one reason why we don't like urban densities in county pockets that we get to
inherit.
Bany: Thank you Madam Mayor and Members of the Commission and Council.
Tom Barry, Public Works Director for the City of Meridian. We wanted to bring
this item to you today. I know we are not unfamiliar with the issues and concerns
associated with the Meridian Heights and Kentucky Ridge Subdivisions and
again, county subdivisions which lay in the City of Meridian's area of impact. We
have -Meridian staff that is has had a long standing relationship of working with
members of those two communities and also their consultant, currently Steve
West of Centra Consulting who is here today and also can provide some
additional information if needed. We have been dealing with a variety of pretty
serious issues and concerns associated with these subdivisions and have been
working diligently in trying to overcome some of the big concerns that are
associated with the infrastructure in both of those communities, the wells itself,
as well as the sewer systems. I believe everyone is aware that both of those
systems are a concern to the Idaho Department of Environmental Quality, most
notably, the sewer systems. In working diligently for many years and specifically
over the last year or so, Steve and his staff and my staff have been trying to
come up with solutions that make sense for the community as well as the City of
Meridian and have probably moved forward, Steve, would you say at least half a
dozen or more different options or alternatives for consideration, which proved
unfortunately not workable? The one that we had last pursued, which I think
everyone was aware of was the annexation route and the fact that those
communities or at least one part of the subdivisions are not able to annex,
therefore, to receive services as an annexed part of the community became
problematic to the City Council.
Ullman: Can I ask for a clarification? They are not able to be annexed?
Bany: That is correct. The one subdivision in Heights is contiguous, in Kentucky
Ridge is not contiguous. Both communities, again, 286 or so properties share a
common water, sewer system and we will not be able to separate those systems
out. We are treating them essentially as one giant subdivision if you will. So, the
concern also associated with annexation was that the city did not want to burden
our rate payers with the associated costs of the infrastructure that is not to the
city's specifications. So that became also problematic to us. There had been
several attempts, I think, by members and representatives of the Meridian
Heights Kentucky Ridge Water Sewer Association and to essentially develop or
try to get sponsorship with LID. That was something that our City Council did not
want to pursue as a sponsor; most importantly because they were not members
of our community and therefore, we could not sponsor them. In addition, they
could not become members of our community because of the annexation issues I
had just mentioned. So we had encouraged them to come see the County
Commissioners since they are essentially residents of the county and to pursue
the county with reference to sponsorship for the LID. We have since received a
letter indicating the county's lack of desire to that and that has at least fulfilled
one of their obligations, the Meridian Heights Kentucky Ridge Association's
obligations to pursue all available courses of action. That seemed to be one of
the ones that was remaining. So, I believe that our Mayor had sent to the
Commission a letter of our concern; again, associated with the sponsorship of
the LID or lack thereof on the county's part and didn't know if you wanted to have
a conversation about that today or if we wanted to continue to brainstorm the
issue or ideas as it relates to the two communities. So, with that, hopefully that
background helps at least bring up us all on the same page as it relates to the
condition and issues associated with the communities in the county.
De Weerd: Mr. West do you have any additional updates?
West: Just a couple of additional comments, Madam Mayor, Members of the
Commission and Councilmen, I would just note that we did go through the
process of developing the annexation application. The issue of the continuity
with respect to Kentucky Ridge Subdivision is real, but it is not insurmountable.
There has been willingness expressed in some of the adjoining property owners
that would establish continuity, however, with the concern about the LID
sponsorship it did not appear that annexation was going to be the preferred
route. The issues that Director Bany brings up with regard to the question of the
status of existing infrastructure, the collection for the sewer and the distribution
system for the water. We do not think that that is as much of a problem for
Kentucky Ridge. There are unknowns with regard to the Meridian Heights
Subdivision and so an ongoing analysis is currently being conducted to evaluate
or scope the sewer. Once that is done it will give an indication of how much
needs to be done to bring it into compliance with city requirements. I can add that
the Association has received approval for funding, which will allow for a hookup
in the amount of roughly $200,000 from Zions Bank and that would be enough to
complete the interim connection to advert the looming public health emergency
with respect to wastewater disposal and we have been, I think, very fortunate
and very thankful for the collaborative effort and the work with the Meridian City
Public Works and Planning Departments. They have been very helpful in helping
us get through this maze. We have had a number of different approaches that
we have used in trying to come to resolution. I think we are narrowing in what
appears to be the preferred option, but I realize we still have some discussions to
have to get that resolved. That is really all I have to add. I would be happy to
answer any questions.
De Weerd: Pete, did you have anything that you wanted to add on the land use,
annexations or any background that you would like to share as well.
Friedman: Thank you Madam Mayor, Council Members and Commissioners. As
both Tom and Steve indicated we did receive an application for annexation and
as Tom indicated Meridian Heights is contiguous with Meridian city limits,
Kentucky Ridge is not. We did approach two property owners who were
essentially the lynch pins that could create the contiguity, wanting to find out what
their thoughts were, what kind of comfort level they needed in terms of joining the
annexation. We also indicated that we are not the sponsors of the annexation,
we are simply reviewing the application and that we know that they have had
numerous conversations with their neighbors. They were concerned about
requirements for hooking up the sewer and some of the future land use issues.
While those decisions are ultimately Council decisions, both Planning and Public
Works staff told them that we would be comfortable going forward at least
recommending that certain requirements for sewer hookup and associated costs
would be waived until sewer was adjacent to their property and then any of the
other issues in terms of future land use, we could work out through some form of
development agreement. We thought at the time that they were open to the
possibility of annexing or joining the annexation; subsequently we have heard
that they have either no longer are comfortable or just taking a wait and see
approach. So, there was one other possibility that Mr. West brought up last week
when we met that may still further achieve the contiguity, but they are working on
that and we need to look at what they are looking at. So, right now the
annexation application is being held in advance until we get contiguity for
Kentucky Ridge.
De Weerd: Thank you. Questions from the Commission?
Ullman: I guess I just want to clarify on the record. So if you do create a path so
that you have contiguity, you are willing to annex both subdivisions?
Friedman: If the path is created and we get evidence, Commissioner, that we
have contiguity then we will move the application forward through the public
hearing process and see what recommendation Planning and Zoning
Commission makes to the City Council and what decision the Council makes is
based upon all the evidence, not only the land use. Obviously we have some
code compliance issues as well as the infrastructure concerns that are going to
be right there in the forefront for consideration.
De Weerd: I think too it was looked at one time Kentucky Ridge doesn't have
quite the same issues that Meridian Heights does and so they were looking at
doing maybe separate ventures, but because we didn't have an annexation path,
we were looking at what options we could and I can tell you that the staff time
resources has been extensive on this trying to work on the situation and trying to
find an amenable solution. Again, I will go back to what Mr. Barry had
mentioned. As Council has a concern that we protect the interest of our current
rate payers and not put the burden of whatever these improvements would be on
our existing rate payers. So, that policy in place has been what has been driving
a lot of the discussion in how do they fund what is needed with the assurance
that our existing rate payers would not have been the responsibility of the burden
if that plan should fail.
Tilman: Just for the record, I live in the area that you are talking about so I did
not vote on the issue at the county, so just for the record. But, I can tell you that
if one of the other options is being considered as far as an LID as opposed to an
LID is to create their own sewer district, which would then as I understand give
them other options. If it is a district, you have even other funding options that an
LID doesn't give them. So I think that - it is my understanding at least that this
group is looking at other options of how to create an opportunity to get the
infrastructure improvements, get the money, has a quasi government entity as a
taxing district certainly qualifies them for a lot of other options out there to try and
meet their concerns, but again, you guys got to do what you guys have got to do
and these homeowners are going to have to do what they have to do and step up
and create an opportunity for them to get these issues resolved. That is pretty
much the way that works.
De Weerd: Well, and I guess the bottom line is the cost and the City of Meridian
has not been wanting to force annexation and so they also wanted to show that
there was support in being annexed into the city to get those services. Kentucky
Ridge, I would say, has been very cooperative in trying to move in that regard.
Meridian Heights on the other side has not -certainly their simple majority, I
believe, is there, but not the kind of numbers that I think Council felt more
comfortable with. You know we always get concerned when we hear our
residents saying oh, yeah, you just want our taxes. Well, no we really don't. We
don't really want their discharge quite yet either because that puts an extra
burden on planned capacity that we have already annexed into the city, we have
approved preliminary plats, we have committed services to them and that bottom
line is by adding this number of immediate homes to serve into our capacity
when we still don't have an updated NPDES or whatever permit. We are still
operating on our 99 permit; haven't received an update from the EPA and it has
been almost 10 years in our application. So, I think that those are the
complications of something that looks like it should be simple, but it is far from
that.
West: Madam Mayor, if I could just add, the Meridian Heights Water and Sewer
Association is moving forward with the formation of water and sewer district. I
think that that does solve a number of potential concerns that the city may have
had with regard to funding who is responsible and we are approaching it in and I
think in working with your staff in looking at the potential of contracting for
disposal of the wastewater. That solves a lot of problems or concerns in the
sense that it does allow Meridian Heights Water and Sewer District to be sponsor
of their own LID or other funding mechanism and so that responsibility or
obligation or liability that would rest with the District as opposed to anything that
might be construed as the city's responsibility. A specified term of contract for
wastewater disposal would then also ensure a fine (inaudible) time, if that is the
right thing to resolve the other issues. The issues of the wastewater
infrastructure and to address the distribution of the water system. It also takes
the nose bleed of dealing with some of the potential code violations off the table
for the time being to allow time to determine what is the best way to deal with
those kinds of things. The important thing, I think to keep in mind is that they
really are dealing with a - it is not a gee would you like to do that sort of thing, it
is a public health emergency by definition and the Department of Environment
Quality has been quite adamant that there needs to be resolution. There are no
other options. There is a no option in terms of trucking the wastewater. That bill
would probably jump rates from their current $50 a month to well over $400 a
month per household. There is no way to for many of the households for many
of the households, particularly Meridian Heights to absorb that kind of cost.
There is absolutely no way that the Department is going to approve a pilot or
satellite wastewater treatment plant because reasonable access to the City of
Meridian's sewer system, so their ability to approve a wastewater treatment
plant, assuming you could demonstrate that land application would not impact
the aquifer, it is really not viable. The other thing that I would just note that of the
280 some homes in the two subdivisions, roughly 73 or 74 percent of them
signed affidavits of consent in support of annexation. So it does go beyond the
simple majority. There are those that did not respond with an afFdavit and some,
a few, a very small number who were violently opposed to annexation. However,
in the sense that whether they are in support of annexation or against it, I am
quite sure they still want to be able to flush toilets and take a shower and so that
will probably ultimately be a driver. My hope is that we can find a way to develop
an appropriate contracting mechanism that will further ensure that the city suffers
no harm and enjoys the revenue of receiving that waste for some period of time
to allow these other issues to be resolved and it is not something that is unheard
or of hasn't been done before in other areas and I think that we will be able to
show where instances of water and sewer had contracted to other entities for
other disposal of the wastewater, then by and large a win, win situation for both
the receiving entity and also the generators. That is probably what I am hoping
to present to you tomorrow night and I would be happy to answer any questions
in this setting as well.
De Weerd: Thank you, Steve, and I do want to make it clear. We do have the
capacity at our sewer treatment plant. Unfortunately because of our expired
permit, whether we have the capacity or not, it is immaterial and it is our high flow
times, I think, late August and September is when those flows are of most
concern because we are still operating under a 1999 permit. So, it we continue
the pursuit of how we can work together in being a part of the solution and
certainly would like to let the Commission in nowhere are we trying to be the
obstacle. We do have existing rate payers that we have to look out for their best
interests, while balancing that desire to be part of the solution in a crisis for these
residents are just on our fringe. We will continue to work towards that end and
keep you abreast as to what is going on.
Barry: Madam Mayor, if I may make one or two other remarks. Our City Council
in moving forward with the concept of contracting is going to have to become
comfortable that this could be potentially a very long contract period and that is
primarily associated with the legitimacy of the formation of an LID after the
development of the water and sewer district. Many of us know that the
development of an LID is cumbersome, long and sometimes painful and if those
who are required to participate in the LID choose not to or dispute over long
periods of time, the assessments on the LID, you could see a great period of time
pass before any LID monies were available for improvements to the
infrastructure. Not knowing those time periods, but knowing full well the time
associated with moving through those obstacles would need to be made aware
certainly to our Council as relates to any engagement through a contract
mechanism with the Water Sewer District, since that contract period again could
be very lengthy and it is quite conceivable that some of the improvements may
not get constructed at all if the LID goes a very different direction than we all may
hope it goes. Secondarily, our Council will have to address at some level the
impact of these communities on our system since the annexation is not moving
forward with, the ability for the utilities to collect hookup fees is potentially not
there and those hookup fees are designed to capture the impact each property
has on the capacity and the infrastructure that those properties utilize and so a
surcharge may need to be considered by our City Council in a contracting
mechanism as a means to recapture some of the investment that our rate payers
have made, but that the two communities in the county will be benefiting from.
So those are just two other issues that I wanted to bring forward and make
everyone aware of. With that I will stand for any questions that you might have.
Ullman: Just maybe a comment from the county's perspective. We are not in
the sewer and water business and since this area is in your area of city impact
and you are in the sewer and water business, it made sense to us to look to the
city to help resolve these issues and obviously it is a very complicated situation.
Barry: I agree. It does make a lot of sense, but again, as the Mayor has
mentioned what doesn't make sense is an un-equitable distribution of impact
associated with our extension of services to the two communities.
De Weerd: So, stay tuned.
Barry: Thank you all.
De Weerd: Okay, if there is nothing further on that item, we will move to the next.
I will tum this over to Anna.
Item 4. Title IX Revisions:
Canning: Thank you Madam Mayor, Council Members, Commissioners. Now
that we have our new area of city impact amendment -- and thank you and all
your staff for your help in getting that done. That was a big accomplishment.
There are a number of things on my to do list from Council that I thought this
might be a good opportunity to raise some Title IX amendments that we had all
considered and give the Council and Commissioners an opportunity to talk about
them. One of them is impact fees. You may have remembered that we tried to
have the county adopt our impact fees within the area of city impact and ran into
a number of issues. One, being that we needed to completely redo our impact
fee ordinances and the way that we construct those. We have done that now
and given the potential for the Bittercreek Subdivision, which we will be bringing
sewer down that way and we will be bringing the county the potential for that and
also the potential for planned communities with or without annexation. We
thought that that might be a good time to initiate that impact fee collection within
the county again. I wanted to thank Ted Argo and Meg Rush for including us in
the planned communities' discussion and we kind of suggested some things to
them during that one too. So that is a possibility. Blue Print for Good Growth.
They are the consortium, right? I can't get that straight. They did move to have
the cities work with the county to adopt some of that subarea planning process
within our Title IX agreements and we would certainly be interested in that,
although, we don't foresee any in the future; it just is good planning process and
it may apply to planned communities within the area of city impact depending on
how those code amendments work out as well. So, we thought that those would
be good amendments to initiate. The city has been interested in having the
county adopt some of our zoning standards, similar to what other cities have
within the Title IX agreements and I know that will be something that Mr. Tilman
will discuss here probably first off the bat here, but there are a number of those
that we would be in favor of if there is a way to figure out if we could successfully
do that within the Title IX agreements. Then finally I just wanted to kind of
highlight some recent changes in the county code that Council Members and
Mayor may not be familiar with that were beneficial to the City of Meridian, aside
from the area of city impact boundary. I was hoping Mr. Gibbons would be here
to clarify, but I believe that within the areas of city impact the county code has
been changed such that urban services are better defined in that it would require
that Meridian Public Works Department provide those urban services within the
area of city impact if someone were seeking a rezone. You may or may not be
able to clarify that. Then I also believe you no longer allow cluster subs within
the RUT zone and you no longer allow non farm subdivisions within the RR zone.
So all of those were beneficial to us. That was my short presentation and then I
would answer questions or -
De Weerd: Okay, any questions for Anna?
Tilman: I appreciate you working with our staff Anna. We are trying to redraft the
ordinances dealing with planned communities. So I think that is - I don't think
our goals are necessarily conflicting, I think it is just a matter of trying to figure
out how to work your way through that, but making certain too that we each have
our own statutory authority that we need to make sure that is possible. I don't
know that you are going to find us - it is just a process that we are going to have
to work through.
De Weerd: 1 know Commissioner Tilman you have mentioned that at Blue Print
for Good Growth that cities really need to look at how we can make planned
communities more practical in an area of impact and we agree with you on that. I
do believe that Anna has been looking at a number of things in that regard as
well.
Canning: Well the concern we have I think at this point is trying to figure out how
some of our standards get applied within the county given that statutory limits on
everybody's authority and I think that is really going to be the biggest challenge is
so that we make sure that when we are at that door to annex that it meets our
standards. Hence, the previous discussion is what it really boils down to. So,
think that that is the big issue to somehow overcome and find something that
works for both governmental agencies.
Tilman: Well, in all fairness in order to eliminate this situation that you just
mentioned that was discussed earlier; that is one of the reasons that we
eliminated the two different subdivisions in that RUT area so that it wouldn't
happen again in the future.
Canning: Yeah, that will help a lot.
Tilman: And also in those subdivisions the density was quite different and the
non farm, for instance, so if you are going to annex that density would always be
a lot higher, at least an acre and that wasn't always necessarily consistent with
your urban density -you know, I don't know how you deal with that -it's the
same issue you have got now - if you look at your city limits and the number of
enclaves that you have got, it is the same issue. How do you deal with those? I
mean, that is exactly the same concerns and it is something that I don't have a
good answer for you. Those are things that have been that way long before any
of us ever got here, but now that the annexation has occurred around them, how
do you deal with those little enclaves? Does Meridian go out and put out the
fire? What do you do - we are going through and looking through different
contracts for picking up waste. Is that going to be Meridian contractors? Is that
going to be the incorporated contractor?
De Weerd: That is a mess, you know, that we have BFI in our community
serving those enclaves and because -
Tilman: Well, that is the point. How do you deal with that as a land use issue?
De Weerd: Exactly and I guess we continue to look like Swiss cheese in the City
of Meridian because we don't like the forced annexation. Staff has began the
process and Council just recently approved the annexation of a number of
enclaves that are receiving services of either water or sewer. That did justify.
We went out and we worked with those residents. We communicated with them.
We didn't have any of them that came and were up in arms, so I credit our staff in
really being good at going and working with each of these different parcels. We
could get into now areas that are a lot more difficult and certainly we are not sure
if we want to go there. But, then you have the trash service, you have the sheriff
and police issues. Fortunately, we have a rural city fire district, so we have
compatible coverage.
Ullman: -- EMS district.
De Weerd: -- and EMS district. So, anyway I think that they are trying to work
out some of those bugs. We found that in the clusters in one of the subdivision
as the urban density started to -they were contiguous; they were able to then
have the higher density. The lower density was on the street and so the higher
density had to travel through it and no one wants those people to drive through
their subdivisions and we also had the issues that those county subs did not
have sidewalks. We had kids that needed to go to the school across the street
and they were walking in this county standard sub without the sidewalk,
infrastructure and some of that. So, we appreciate that now those obstacles
aren't going to be there and it makes adopting some of our city standards into
county and trying to work out the planned community aspect because I do
believe we have similar sized developments in our community and they are
great. You see a big picture. You see how it connects. You see a community
within a community and I believe that they belong in the city's area of impact and
where we can work together on ironing out the details that might be potential
pitfalls later on. We will be able to serve them because we will be adding them
into our system a few at a time, instead of all at once and that certainly works a
lot better as well.
Ullman: I for one -Commissioner Tilman can probably relate and appreciate
your caution with regard to annexation given that I live out in the southwest
community and of course everybody in the community is aware of the problems
of Boise City annexing out there and the hard feelings on both sides, I think.
De Weerd: When we annex, we want it to make sense to all parties.
Tilman: Again, I think what doesn't make sense either is to continue to provide
urban services out in the area of impact without annexing and that is what
created the whole issue in the southwest and -
De Weerd: And that is what Council just cleaned up in our city as well.
Tilman: But I do think - at least one of the things and I appreciate you looking at
it, is I do believe that all cities need to take a look at their enclaves because the
law does allow and it does make sense to clean up all of the service provision to
take a hard look at those and try to get it resolved and as far as what you are
talking about having growth that is close to the city or requested projects in
subdivisions or whatever that is close enough where you can consider bringing it
in the city is one thing; but where you have got other major property owners that
are looking to do major types of projects, I think that is where we need to have a
good well defined process for -you know we try to condition things even saying
things like when we did approve some of those projects, even smaller the non
farm or whatever, when city services were available they were required to
hookup. Now we are finding out we had no authority to tell them to do that. So it
doesn't make a lot of sense to try to build everything to a standard that met at the
time we thought was a standard that was -for fire service, you need to have a
hydrant, you need to have all of the different things. But again, once the city gets
there if they are not going to annex, it doesn't make a lot of sense either. So
those are all issues that you know in trying to protect private property rights and
letting people use their property for their highest, best use without creating
hardships for people that buy those homes even down the road. Believe me, we
recognize that some of the things and the planning things that have been going
on for years, weren't necessarily in the long run the best decisions and that is
why we made a lot of those major changes, but I think we are going to find too
that we have a time struggling too with, if you will and I have stated many times,
if we could get everybody to agree on some planning boundaries and stick to it
then it makes sense for us to start adopting plans that are long term, long enough
that make sense, but then if somebody else comes in an annexes it, they have a
whole different vision for their city and we built it or designed it in such a way that
it doesn't meet their standards, those are the kinds of things that we wrestle with
between other competing city interests, I guess. So that is what we struggle with.
I wish the heck, frankly, that you guys would get a planning area and just annex
the whole thing and it will be done with.
Canning: I am hoping that we have such boundaries, Mr. Tilman.
Tilman: You could do whatever you want to do with it -
De Weerd: Well let's just do that.
Tilman: So I understand the hesitancy and the concerns, but the annexation part
of that is an intricate part of it and unfortunately, the area of impact legislation law
doesn't necessarily match up to the annexation law. There is a lot of conflicts
between the two. Hopefully someday they will figure that out and get it resolved.
The problem is the cities and the counties have been fighting over that forever. I
don't know that it will ever get resolved. I don't think you are going to find us any
- you know we are going to try to work with you wherever we can. The idea of
even planned communities, where they really came from is that they were
outside of anybody's planning area, outside of anybody's -really designed to be
anew city. Somebody had the vision to create a new city and that is what the
law even says. Now that we as a county have grown to the point where some of
those distances now might not even be applicable because you have got to be so
far from the city to even be a new city, so some of those things now are starting
to come into play, too, depending on where your city limits are. We will be happy
to work with you.
Canning: I have to mention one thing that when we had that meeting with Ted
and Meg, there were five or six planners there and it turned out we were all
former county employees. I thought that that was rather amusing.
Tilman: It is interesting that we are having some of those that were at county and
now at the city and now looking to come back to the county.
Friedman: Well, not at this point and time.
Tilman: No, I am saying they are looking because we are all having our
challenges in that whole arena. It is interesting, though, how some things go full
circle.
De Weerd: Anything else on this item. We have a few more minutes. Is there
anything under item 5, other?
Tilman: I don't have anything.
Yzaquirre: I don't.
De Weerd: Commissioner Ullman?
Ullman: Nope.
Tilman: I appreciate the meeting.
Bird: We appreciate you coming.
Yzaquirre: We need to continue to meet. I know some times these agencies
forget about getting everybody together, but I think it is very valuable.
De Weerd: Thank you, we do too.
Tilman: We can be available anytime you got something you want to talk about.
All we have to do is schedule it. That is the tough part.
Ullman: I really look forward to working with you on the whole emergency
services' issue.
De Weerd: Well, thank you so much. With that we will adjourn.
Item 5: Other:
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 10:44 A.M.
(AUDIO ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
APPROVED:
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