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HomeMy WebLinkAbout03April30 Golf Course Committee MinsGOLF cou~sE coMMrrTEE Wednesday, Apri/ 30, ZOi03 at 7:OID pm Mayor's Conference Room Meridian City Ha// Attendonce: Wcr/t Morrow 0 Choy/ie Rountree ~ Keith Bird ~_ JoAnn But/er X Tom funkhouser ~_ sharvn 6o//ivan ~_ Jim Johnson X Jennifer Lovan-Ho/%way )C DQVid Moe _~ Creg stee% D Brad Watson D E/roy Huff ~(_ Wi// Berg Golf Course Committee April 30, 2003 The Golf Course Committee Meeting was called to order by Chairman Walt Morrow at 7:00 P.M. at the Meridian City Hall. Members Present: David Moe, Sharon Gallivan, JoAnn Butler, Keith Bird, Jim Johnson, Jennifer Lovan-Holloway, Tom Funkhouser, Creg Steele, Walt Morrow and Will Berg. Members Absent: Charlie Roundtree, Brad Watson and Elroy Huff Morrow: I'd like to welcome you all to our organizational meeting for the golf course. What we are going to do here as a way of establishing what the protocols are going to be and how we are going to go about this. First of all each of ,you have been selected by myself and Charlie to be members of the committee in terms of your input. I met with Mayor Corrie I asked for three city folk, one was Will Berg as the City Clerk to do the recording. One was a City Councilman with the most experience in terms of recreational things in the history of Meridian and that was Keith Bird. Then I asked for Brad Watson who is the City Engineer in terms of having him acknowledge that they smashed up the golf course to begin with. All three of those will be here for their input to help us arrive at completing our task. I view our task to be one of information only. We are going to proceed to determine issues with respect to what's wrong with the golf course. Then we are going to figure out cost and fix and then we are going to make available potential solutions and turn them in a draft, final report and give that to the City Council and then the Mayor and Council can make a decision as to what it is they wish to do to solve the issues. I think that (inaudible) biased so that we were approving fact finding (inaudible) partial with respect to (inaudible) solutions. I think that one thing that each of you hasn't seen that I think will lend a lot of help is that you ought to tour the golf course as it stands today because of the super amount of rain that we have had over the course of the last 30 days. The golf course is (inaudible) that's probably the, when I've looked at and mowed the golf course at least from the out side I didn't see any dry spots and so I think by a large amount of nature has given us some guidance as to what the issues may be (inaudible) that part of the report. That is how I would like to go about this. The second issue that I'd like to add is that I think this location is a neutral location that's convenient for everybody. I visualize us having meetings every other Wednesday. Time limit of each meeting should be an hour and a half. I don't think this is going to take more then four or five meetings at the most. So (inaudible) we are prepared with a package of information, including leases, minutes of the City Council Meeting that most of you were at and familiar with. Addendums to the leases and so I will ask Will to hand those out between now and our next meeting each of you can read those and familiarized yourself with them and see that you have a good background of what it is we need to do and how we need to get there. Also the historical descriptive of how we got to the point that we are at now. Having said that we Cherry Lane Golf Course Co~,~mittee April 30, 2003 Page 2 of 16 have a s ign i n s heet t hat y ou a II h ave s igned s o t hat w e h ave a ccess t o y ou either by fax or email or any information that we may need to give to you. I think that what I would like to do at this point is take you each in sequence and have you read (inaudible) of what you see is issues and see what we can get kicked off with respect to (inaudible) as a place to start. Now I recognize you are operating a t a bit o f a h andicap s tandpoint of n of h aving g one t hrough a II t he information but at any rate let's start with you. Steele: Do we need to say our name for the recorder? Morrow: Yes please for our records and the tape. State your name and then you can talk and we can go in sequence. Steele: Creg Steele. I guess part of, you know and I think everyone sees the issue is there are problems with the golf course due to various different factors. There is different problems due to greens, tee boxes, water, those types of things but I think the real big issue is basically who is responsible for fixing those. Funkhouser: Tom Funkhouser. I'm just the Golf Course Superintendent. I've tried to lend my expertise the best I can to help the problem. Lovan-Holloway: Jennifer Lovan-Holloway. I don't know what my - I'm kind of at a loss here because I mean I want it all but of course that can't happen. Mostly my biggest issue is the sprinkler system and kind of how it is working and how it doesn't work. I would like to see some solution to that fixed. Johnson: Jim Johnson. I found it very difficult to go through the minutes because there was so many inaudibles in there that it didn't make sense. I didn't really get much of a feel for the first meeting. I did review all the leases and the (inaudible) report. I'm familiar with that I've had it a couple of times on our golf course. To me the first (inaudible) brought up the issues pays and I think that's probably key and as you notice pick up some of that money so there is still some (inaudible) expansion (inaudible). The key to the whole thing is the irrigation system and in order to do that it has to be number one priority in my mind. You also have to get with Tom and the people out there as to where you are going to relocate greens and tees, if you are going to do that. If you are going to work in the same locations you can probably go ahead and do the sprinkler system design n ow. I f there is g oing t o b e r elocation t hen y ou h ave t o set t hat a s a priority to get those first and put in the sprinkler system because everything is going to spin off that sprinkler system. That's the key to any golf course. Very expensive they are all computerized and without that system (inaudible) USGA standards. It's impossible. Morrow: As the means of offering a little guidance here. One of the major reasons that I asked Jim to be part of this committee is that he has been (inaudible) involved in Spurwing in terms of the hiring of their grounds (inaudible) Cherry Lane Golf Course Co~,~mittee April 30, 2003 Page3of16 and that all has just occurred within the last three or four months. He is really up to speed as to what it takes and what kind of labor is out there. Doing the interviews, actually going to Spokane. (Inaudible) those types of things so he is areal good information source there. Besides that he does bring pie and ice cream once in awhile. Butler: JoAnn Butler. (Inaudible) sounds like Jim has seen a copy of the USGA report. I don't know how many others, may be we should make a copy. Is it in the p acket? Okay great. At our last m eeting and m ost of you k now that we approached the city may be six or eight months ago because there had not been a base line report done on the golf course as was originally contemplated on the new leases. The city has worked with Cherry Lane to have Matt Nelson out there and the USGA to do that based on (inaudible). At our last meeting we (inaudible) what Jim says (inaudible). At our last meeting we talked about a plan adapt as necessary i n t erms o f t he i rrigation. That j umped o ut a s t he t hing that w as - plans going to be needed and I know Tom suggested that we locally talk to maybe Eugene as somebody that may be a person, there are may be some other people locally and then the USGA. Or Matt Nelson suggested some others that we could contact. That seems like may be one of the initial things that we could do as we start. I also wanted to tell the committee that as we suggested or asked of those to do at the last meeting we knew that we need to look at municipal findings and Bill Nichols had suggested at that meeting that we contact Rick Skinner who has been running counsel for the City (inaudible) and Bud Way over at Wells Fargo. I did meet with Rick Skinner and did meet with Bud Way and both of them were very encouraging. Bud has been known to take just even initial numbers knowing of estimated costs of what would be needed on the course knowing that they are guesstimates at this point and run it through their models in terms of (inaudible) and willing to work with the committee on cover (inaudible) as we get him information he will feed that through and tell us you know what we are looking at or some of the alternatives and Rick has also said that he would help as well to give information to the committee. Gallivan: I'm Sharon Gallivan and I went on the tour when Matt Nelson was here. I thought his report was excellent in laying out what he felt was needed and priorities as well. The irrigation first but not forgetting the other things that are needed as well. That would be my focus. Moe: David Moe. I was on the Parks and Recreation years back. A couple of the major items that we dealt with were lots of complaints in the golf course. Things that had to be taken care of over the years. Quite frankly I think over the past couple years the golf course has done a fabulous job getting themselves back together and there was a time when there was a lot of problems and its been going forward. One of the biggest problems I see is how we do finance this and who is going to be paying for something that could be done with this golf course. Especially if the city recommendations are as such that the city is going to have to come up with some dollars. I don't know where the city is going to Cherry Lane Golf Course Co~~~mittee April 30, 2003 Page 4 of 16 come up with the money. So speaking of (inaudible) and what not so I'm kind of looking forward to seeing how that shakes out. Morrow: Thank you. The next question that I want to go over and Joann touched on it a little bit (inaudible). I would like to have a sense from you who you would like to make presentations to us because certainly I don't think anyone of us would pretend to have all the answers to this and I would like to have guest presenters that are, at least at our first two or three meetings to establish our baseline information of who (inaudible). I also want to stay out of the arena of assigning blame, second-guessing what was done in the past. I think that is counterproductive, Iwant this committee be extremely positive and come forward with recommendations that the Mayor and Council can make the decisions that they need to make and then (inaudible) fall where they fall but at least the document that we present them with (inaudible) this day forward. With respect of how we handle all this and (inaudible) and the recommendations that we make. We will recognize the facts as they exist and that's all and move forward with that. Having said that I don't think that I really have anything else that I wanted for tonight's agenda. I promised you this would be a short group meeting and (inaudible). Having said that any last thoughts from any of you or anywhere place else that you would like to go tonight with respect of where we are at? Johnson: I just had a question. What has been the city's opinion as best you can gauge in terms of contributing towards the golf course in reconstruction (inaudible)? Morrow: I would defer. I'm not (inaudible). I would defer that to Keith Bird. Johnson: I noticed Tammy was in your meetings. Morrow: The last meeting? Johnson: The January meeting. Morrow: That would have been the entire Council and then - I was late because I had a conflict with ACHD advisory meeting that particular night. I don't know what went on at the first part. I like you was in hope that the minutes (inaudible) but it was a large meeting. It struck me has being kind of a brainstorming session by the time that I got there. Butler: (Inaudible). Johnson: It just seemed like her vent was that the city would certainly cooperate in the effort to get to the bottom of whatever the problems might be and seemed to (inaudible) over where the finances would come in to do that because we are talking a substantial amount of money. (Inaudible) that is why I'm interested in hearing about the bond issue with Mr. Way. (Inaudible). Cherry Lane Golf Course Co~~~mittee April 30, 2003 Page 5 of 16 Butler: And I think not to put my foot in Tammy's mouth but I think if there was any (inaudible) it was only because it was our initial meeting and we all recognize that it was a large cost and that it wasn't something that your typical green fees were going to (inaudible) something that we (inaudible) in order to get enough money to do that. We talked at the last meeting about possibilities of could we phase the system in or do the whole thing at once. What was better? It was really just I think most of the financing is we just need to find out what. How has it been funded in the past by the city what funds (inaudible) funds come from me. What are the lots contributions that are left and just kind of figure what the overall funding package could look like. I think its just nothing more then - I think the city has indicated their willingness to look at all the aspects. Johnson: Our next step would probably logically be to get our hands around what the projective costs might be. We can't do that without a plan. Morrow: I think that what the procedure will be is that we are going to sit down and develop what needs to be done. Then the next step would be cost to do those things. Then the last step would be the menu of recommendations on how to accomplish those things and then we put the final draft and the council can recognize that I think they pretty well know what the problems are but I would like to see that as part of the document solutions, costs take it from here Mayor and Council. Johnson: Are there any questions with the lease and the wording on the lease as to where the responsibilities would be? Butler: (Inaudible). Johnson: Okay that hasn't been ironed out (inaudible). Butler: I think you should get a different opinion but yeah I guess (inaudible). Johnson: I understand y ou a re a n a ttorney. I j ust w onder i f i t had g one a ny further then what I can see in the notes anywhere. Morrow: I think that part of what the committee will do is we will step out and recognize what our interpretation of the (inaudible) and that question would be did the golf course get what they were supposed to get? In the very beginning there were a couple potential equipment operators that were essentially all from my reading of those minutes at that time were all essentially promising the same thing and none of those things ever came to pass. There were lots of reasons, economy, bankruptcies, multiple bankruptcies (inaudible) and so forth. I think that one of the challenges that we will have in the final in the end of this is to say that this is what the city's obligation is as we see it and this is what Cherry Lane Rec (inaudible) their obligation to our terms. Cherry Lane Golf Course Co~~~mittee April 30, 2003 Page 6 of 16 Johnson: That is a different twist then what I thought it would be. I didn't think we would get into the obligation part. I thought we were going to look at what the course needed to bring it up to standard since (inaudible) USGA standard and we can do that without getting the responsibility (inaudible). Morrow: Well I think if we can do it and do it very well but I think that we need to make a statement somewhere along the line that one of the recommendations very well may be that the city has the option of dropping the USGA requirement through the golf course. That is one of the solutions (inaudible) potential solutions that (inaudible). I think that we need to recognize for example that its our opinion if that's what the opinion of the committee is is that the original lease and those numbers were predicated upon whoever had the lease up had to gain USG quality golf course to begin with. Johnson: Tom will tell you that USGA standards have changed a lot since 1978, that's when that lease (inaudible). Morrow: And once again that's an issue for the City Council and one or more recommendations may very well be to modify those conditions. We are talking in terms of 1978 then that's obviously much different then what the conditions are today and if we are going to recognize that today's report we had is the goal here then that is certainly different then what was originally (inaudible). I don't think we ought to make any judgment whether who got it from USGA standards in 1978 to 2003 that's kind of outside of what we need to do. Butler: And what we would like to do too is add that one of the things and I think that Matt mentioned in his notes in the baseline reports was no matter what it was I ike 3 0 y ears a go. 3 0 y ears i s a bout t he I ife a xpectancy o f a s ystem s o which is where we are today and so we are starting sort of fresh and not calling out too much, who was supposed to do water or whatever 30 years ago and behind (inaudible). Moe: How many courses in this valley are USGA? Johnson: Almost all of them. That is the goal on all of them. Like Tom says there is only a few certified green superintendents in the valley and we haven't had one (inaudible). The course is (inaudible) that is standard other wise they can't (inaudible). I would say that those n ames you are f amiliar with most of them are USGA standard in terms of drainage and green construction and apparently the surveys I had read from that (inaudible) cut the grass as short as you can get it so (inaudible). There is just all kinds of issues there with (inaudible) and (inaudible). Cherry Lane Golf Course Co~,~mittee April 30, 2003 Page 7 of 16 Morrow: I would like to move now. I would invite who ever you would like to make the first presentation to us. Does anyone have any recommendation who they would like to hear from first? Butler: Since I talked to Rick Skinner at (inaudible) and we did know very initial numbers I don't want to commit them to anything but it may be good to start out to have somebody tell us a little bit more about municipal finance and how this works. How it could work and maybe it means contacting them this week and maybe seeing if they could work together something in very rough form and maybe it would be just an initial presentation and that they could come back at a later time with more information. I'm not really sure exactly how to structure that. Johnson: I think that is a good idea because they can talk with one range they don't need specific (inaudible). Bird: (Inaudible) Skinner is going to tell you how you go through you got to have your judicial review or take you through that. Or bonds if you are going to do bonds. The one thing and Bud's well aware of that we couldn't sign a contract with him without getting bids from other place, I mean he's the one that did the Police Station, him and Skinner did the Police Station. They're quite familiar and I agree with Jim I would like to see those (inaudible) from those two guys. At least Bud from Wells Fargo. He can give you some kind of range of what its going to cost and whether its worth going for a bond or what it is you finance through the city. Morrow: Is the consensus then you want to see the financing presentation of the (inaudible) department or the presentation first and then roll back and start doing technical aspects so that we can get a feel for what all is involved. Then once we do we end up with some sort o f n umbers f rom the technical p eople a nd then have the financial people back again when we have more information about the numbers that we are going to need. Steele: Do you think getting the numbers out there f first is going to influence things that we want to accomplish? If we want to just lay out say okay here is the problems with the golf course. If we get that money issue out there first it kind of is putting the cart before the horse. Bird: I'm just going to tell you that you are going to get the numbers out there first for the public and the tax payers (inaudible). Morrow: Well Keith I think it's a (inaudible) approach here. I think the numbers in terms of improvements are what they are. I think that that's a really objective goal, its not subjective in anyway. It's a bid item. Certainly if we want to know what a sprinkler system costs and we got the specs of the sprinkler system, there it is. If we knew a little something about the financing and the financing avenues to begin with we can be thinking about those things as we are getting these Cherry Lane Golf Course Co~~~mittee April 30, 2003 Page 8 of 16 presentations with respect to cost of construction to (inaudible) problems. I think there is some benefit to knowing that because in the final analysis we made by virtually the information from financing (inaudible) that some things just aren't doable. But once (inaudible) we can make that recommendation and the City Council can do whatever they wish to do with that information. Butler: If I could suggest since you talked about only a short number of meetings which is great because we (inaudible) so this is good. Maybe one thing that happened in the intro is next week we have a presentation on numbers and financing but on the same time a couple folks on the committee could pull together the laundry list of what they think are the problems and maybe also make that presentation of this is what we think all of our issues are. It might just short-circuit some of that and then doesn't mean they have to (inaudible) at that next meeting but maybe (inaudible). Morrow: I don't have a problem with it at all it certainly takes (inaudible) in the right direction. I would like to have presentations from the (inaudible) that we talked about earlier. It would be beneficial I think for us as a committee to have some sense of what (inaudible) drop it by with specific questions we need to ask. I'll go along with the idea of (inaudible) putting together a best menu that you can in terms of (inaudible). Johnson: You actually have (inaudible) at least two lists. One is the list of things that we need to get done. The second list is the list (inaudible) its obvious from the report they don't have the equipment to do the job and that can be a substantial (inaudible). Morrow: Good thinking. The three of you are agreeable to that. Creg, Tom, and Jennifer you'll handle that assignment. Joann and Sharon will handle the assignments with the two financing people Rick and Bud. Any other issues that we would like to present for? Butler: Not an issue but there are park people here and golf personnel and people that love golf and one of the things that we brought up at the last meeting. I guess what I'm going to say is as long (inaudible) if there are other issues that we might be able to address. If people could just throw them at the table maybe we could take them up and I'll give you an example at our last meeting in January Jennifer mentioned the thing that she is running into an issue with trespassing on the golf (inaudible) kids whatever and so what we have been doing is collecting a couple of ordinances from other cities like McCall just to and what we were going to do was just get them to Bill Nichols and the Council to say (inaudible). Bird: Haven't you done that already? Butler: No we haven't done anything. Cherry Lane Golf Course Co~~~mittee April 30, 2003 Page 9 of 16 Bird: Okay because I'm just - Butler: Maybe Bill did. Bird: -- somebody sitting over that was supposed to. Butler: (Inaudible). But if issues like that come up and then that with this group that they have noticed it or they just you know maybe throw out maybe there's also some other side (inaudible) -addressed as well. Steele: I brought it up in the Parks Commission. I couldn't find it and then Tad and Jennifer said that they had found the ordinance or whatever it was. I was actually t aking i t t o t he C ommission and then s end i t o n t o y ou guys. I d on't know if that's probably appropriate. Lovan-Holloway: And Creg I have a copy of that ordinance and I know Will also has acopy - Bird: That has nothing to do with the contract. Morrow: Right I think where I want to keep that (inaudible) as a sidelined and that can be handled through the Parks and Recreation Commission. That is not within our purview but if those things come up then Creg you can carry the ball through your folks at the Parks and Recreation Commission and then it can work its way up to City Council. Steele: Okay. Morrow: With (inaudible). Moe: One question I have and again I've gone over this the last few years and what not. I understand the concerns of the golf course and what they think they need and one thing that I'm a little unclear on is what's the city looking for in this? I mean I bring it back to you know the city did the initial review of the golf course and basically it just wasn't a real good experience in my opinion (inaudible) trying to get review of the golf course and everything else. They had issues with the golf course and the golf course came back with the issues that we are here to start trying to resolve. We are putting a list together for what the golf course is looking at. Is there something that the city is looking for in return? Morrow: The answer to that I think the city is looking for the information about the USGA standards and the City Council at least my take at this meeting that I was at (inaudible) was that there was enough confusion in their mind as to what the options were out there and what the (inaudible) with respect to the USGA Cherry Lane Golf Course Co~~~mittee April 30, 2003 Page 10 of 16 (inaudible) was there or not there and how you get to that standard and that is why they ask us to put together a potential list of recommendations. Moe: Will is there anything in here about that? Berg: Yes the minutes from that meeting are in there. Morrow: (Inaudible). Do the best you can. Other issues? Funkhouser: Not at this time. Moe: How did the first -there were irrigation costs put together to kind of mow around what it was going to cost? You talked about another presentation I mean what. Morrow: (Inaudible) that were talked about at that first meeting. Lovan-Holloway: On this USGA rates. Johnson: There are three in this report and then another gentleman (inaudible). Lovan-Holloway: Yes that was one my questions. If we do want them to come in for presentation I guess that's one of things that they are out of state. Cost factor for that? Morrow: Is there one in state person? Lovan-Holloway: We have one locally that I know of with Tom I just am - we don't have any money to go and ask them to come in. I don't know how much they would charge. Steele: Isn't the one that came in and did the inspection isn't he from down around from Twin Falls or something? Lovan-Holloway: Matt. We have his services for a year. We can have him come in but they are also talking about if you had somebody come in and look at cost to doing a sprinkler or a pump house or whatever you are doing. If we had those people come in the people on Matts list were from out of town. Morrow: Well I'm thinking for our purposes we need to do this locally. Lovan-Holloway: and that's what Iwas - Bird: I'm not sure David Moe is going to get you (inaudible). Lovan-Holloway: Right so. Cherry Lane Golf Course Cor~~mittee April 30, 2003 Page 11 of 16 Moe: We don't have any monies from the city (inaudible). Johnson: We have people locally that are capable of putting (inaudible) construction and installation (inaudible). It's a whole different ball game. Morrow: So what is your thought and how we get a handle on that design or at least enough information that we can generate a cost. Johnson: Well I think t hat y ou c an c ontact t hese p eople w ithout h aving t hem come in. Email them or whatever you do. The construction of it is just (inaudible). Funkhouser: Can I say something? Morrow: Sure. Funkhouser: And I might be out of step here but from a golf course superintendent I look at Cherry Lane golf course with separate areas of deed. You have the old nine which (inaudible) needs a water system no question about it. You have the first nine the newest nine, which has some construction problems such as the greens that are too slopey and the water system. Which one do you want to address first? I mean are you going to prioritize any of these? I mean as Jennifer said a minute ago she wants everything. Well that may not be possible. Lovan-Holloway: So you need to kind of decide where you want to start. Now in February - Moe: I think his points well. This is going to totally depend on money and I'm sure we are going to have to prioritize. Morrow: I think that where we want to go here is that, I don't want you to far down the road with respect to sprinkler system design and those kinds of things. I think that where we end up at the first meeting is that we go through and we list everything that is wrong. We have the presentation with respect to the financing then we had a total listing of what is wrong now then we have the conversation of bringing folk in to generate information in terms of fixing whatever is wrong. With respect to that. So our first challenge is to get a menu of everything that is wrong (inaudible) equipment that is missing or not there so that we then pick them off item by item. Is how we (inaudible). Johnson: (Inaudible). Morrow: And I don't disagree but I think that is ready for our next meeting after the upcoming one. Cherry Lane Golf Course Committee April 30, 2003 Page 12 of 16 Johnson: (Inaudible). Morrow: And I guess the part of what we do with the City Council is that they recognize that the numbers are perhaps ball park and based on their decisions that they could go out and bring folk in and (inaudible). Johnson: Let me ask a dumb question? I read somewhere in the minutes that the lease up in October of 03, is that right? Lovan-Holloway: We had to renew it. Johnson: You had a 30-year option to renew it. Lovan-Holloway: Yes and it was renewed before the - Johnson: (Inaudible). Why are we all in this room how did that come about? Morrow: Well I think I can answer that from the standpoint that it was the desire of the city to enforce or begin down a trail to enforce the provisions of the original lease. I think that (inaudible) started in 1996 and that since that point in time - Johnson: There was some kind of an addendum since the lease was (inaudible). Butler: Was it the financing in the clubhouse and stuff? Bird: No it was just (inaudible). Johnson: The city's (inaudible) what came out what (inaudible). Morrow: The city's emphasis or desire to address the USGA standards and the golf course issues and the golf course lease. Johnson: They just discovered that on their own. Morrow: No that came out in the political campaign (inaudible) office in 1996. And it came out as a campaign issue. Up until that point in time, Mayor Kingsford on his own tried to get the city in position through land donations to acquire the land for the back nine. As all of you know, I think you know, that it was several bankruptcies and several other things that occurred (inaudible) changing landowners. He was there ready to get that accomplished in the short term then in late 94 or 95 that stuff started to come together and then the committee was put together to expand and make the final acquisition of the golf course (inaudible). The ultimate players (inaudible) Jim Fuller and his family were the developers that began to develop the new area. Cherry Lane Golf Course Coi~~mittee April 30, 2003 Page 13 of 16 Johnson: That part of the history I know but I just wondered a II of a sudden (inaudible) we are in this room trying to figure out how to direct these problems. I can see where the origin of that came from. You said it's the city because they don't think its up to standard according to the lease. Is that kind of what you are saying? Morrow: That is correct. Johnson: Okay but its not being brought by the operators of the golf course because they think the city should contribute more to help bring it (inaudible) is that now a second issue that's come up? Morrow: I think that is a secondary issue but as time as gone by and I think part of that surveying has been driven by neighbor complaints when there is yellow spots in the grass or those types of things. That is certainly added to the issue but I still think the driving force on the part of the city has been its supposed to be kept to USGA standards and so thus the first inspection came this year in terms of USGA standards. Now we are here because I don't know that the city or the City Council (inaudible) is comfortable understanding what USGA standards are, how the golf course is not at USGA standards. I think there is a lot of question, was it ever USGA standard from the very get go. I think that what this City Council wants to do is put this to rest completely at this point in time. Find out what it takes to get to USGA standards, what the potentials are in terms of getting it there in terms of dollars and cents. If they have that menu form us as a committee then they can make the decision whether to be USGA standard or do something different, leave it as it is, whatever it is that they may want to do as a council. Certainly, where you have a lease in place that demands USGA standards and you don't have a USGA golf course to begin with there is something that has to be (inaudible). Johnson: I'm kind of feeding off David's comment about what is in it for the city or what does the city (inaudible). What is the benefit for the community? You can talk about the benefit about for the community (inaudible) but is the city visualizing some kind of cash (inaudible) that they can eventually control? Morrow: Well I think the answer to that very clearly is that there's an example of Centennial Golf Course in Nampa that has been similar to the cash (inaudible) for some of Nampa's infrastructure and from the very beginning that was a thriving factor that this golf course ought to be able to generate those same kinds of funds. I don't think that anybody ever recognized or took the time to look at comparing apples to oranges between Centennial, Ridgecrest concept, and Cherry Lane concept. I don't know that there has ever been an honest discussion on the record with respect to the potentiality of that. Johnson: It sounds to me like you are kind of talking around that and I will shut u p now. Cherry Lane Golf Course Co~~~mittee April 30, 2003 Page 14 of 16 Morrow: We are kind of talking around an issue here that looks like a violation of the lease that somebody wants to (inaudible). Butler: Who actually got the base line started was the leasee and we actually met with Mayor Corrie a little bit because there were a lot of things going on or happening at the golf course a little bit feeling like the leasee was kind of sandwiched between the city and the developer. There were things happening out there that were making it much more difficult for the leasee to operate a golf course which is (inaudible) develop and give the city x amount of ground. Then all of a sudden when they would survey it a neighbor's yard would stick out into the golf course. Then all of a sudden a sprinkler would be cut off and so there were a lot of things that we said to Mayor Corrie and brought up to the Council was that, you know there has never been a survey that we could find of the entire golf course. Although one was paid for by the city but as I was saying, we haven't ever been able to locate it. We just said you know maybe it's a good idea to just figure out what the city got originally, who that original baseline and we identified the USGA service and brought it to the city and the council very generously said this looks like a good way to go so that we know what it is we need. It was a combination of, I'm sure the city they have, gotten (inaudible) I'm sure you have also heard it from the leasee in terms of problems that were being (inaudible) we did actually go through all the files from 1978 on. It was a great exercise I mean you got to hear Grant scream about the developers that took the topsoil off. We realize that the city had really not always gotten what it had expect to get and so we thought okay how do we help remedy the situation. The only way we can see was not so much going back and reminding everybody about the top soil that had been taken off and then (inaudible) and get that phase lined out as just that a baseline so the city and the leasee can say okay how do we go forward. Johnson: The base issues (inaudible) developers in 1996. (Inaudible). Lovan-Holloway: And just -everybody is still skirting the issue and I'll be real. An employee of the city a Parks Director came forward and really pushed the issue once Mr. Kuntz came on board being able to oversee the golf course and willing to take over. Not to take over you know taking to golf course back but just him wanting to have control and be out there at the golf course and I think that's what really started the process of well here's an inspection that was supposed to of been done was never done. I think Mr. Kuntz just helped get that inspection process started to an answer to your question is how we ended up in this room. Bird: We also have had some help, political people that asked for letters to be wrote by probably don't know anymore about a golf course then I do but goes out there and sees a brown spot here and there doesn't know the history of it and anytime we think Cherry Lane is going to be even close to (inaudible). Cherry Lane Golf Course Co~~~mittee April 30, 2003 Page 15 of 16 Morrow: Any other issues, final issues? David? Moe: (Inaudible) Wednesday? Morrow: If you'd like to go next Wednesday we can or if its two weeks from now. I don't have a (inaudible). How do you all feel about that? Steele: In two weeks is a parks commission meeting on Wednesday. Morrow: Our original deal was for two weeks let's go for the two weeks and stick with that. Bird: Maybe we will have a parks and rec commission meeting the same time. Steele: Keith and I will both be in that. Morrow: I misunderstood you. I thought you were talking about next Wednesday. All right if there is a Parks and Recreation then how do you feel about one week? Joann can you get your deal done with the guys? Butler: I will call Bud Way in the morning and if that's not possible then I'll let you know right away. (Inaudible). Morrow: Jim are you good from a week from today? Johnson: Yeah - (End of side one) Morrow: So Will is going to check in terms of the room one week from today and everybody is good with that from our standpoint. If we are good for the room lets go for that. Lovan-Holloway: Is that seven o' clock Walt? Morrow: Yes one week from today will be the seventh. Okay is there a motion to adjourn? Butler: So moved. Morrow: Is there a second? Lovan-Holloway: Second. Morrow: Its been moved and second to adjourn, all in favor? Opposed? Thank you so much all for coming. Cherry Lane Golf Course Co~~~mittee April 30, 2003 Page 16 of 16 (TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) APPROVED: WALT MORROW, CHAIRMAN v` ~ 7 ~ 03 DATE