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HomeMy WebLinkAbout03Jan27 Spc Mtg MinsCITY OF MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL WORKSHOP /SPECIAL MEETING AGENDA Monday, January 27, 2003, at 6:00 p.m. Meridian Police Station Conference Room Tammy de Weerd Bill Nary Cherie McCandless Keith Bird Mayor Robert Corrie 1. Introductions: - Ties to the project - What do they want to see accomplished? 2. Report by Cherry Lane Golf Course by Jennifer Lovan-Holloway and Nancy Link: - Youth program - Vision for the future 3. Historical Overview: - Old nine holes - New nine holes 4. Key Elements of the USGA Report: - Good aspects - Challenges ~ Irrigation -- Maintenance facility Equipment Construction 5. Funding Options /Alternatives: 6. Identifying Roles: 7. Goals for the future: - Interim Objectives, sub-committee assignments? - Scheduling for future meetings Meridian City Council Workshop /Special Meeting Agenda -January 27, 2003 -Page 1 of 1 All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian. Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearings, please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting. Meridian City Council Special Workshop January 27, 2003 The Special Workshop of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:00 P.M. on Monday, January 27, 2003, by Mayor Robert Corrie. Members Present: Robert Corrie, Bill Nary, Tammy de Weerd and Cherie McCandless. Members Absent: Keith Bird Others Present: Gary Smith, Brad Watson, Bill Nichols, Will Berg and Elroy Huff 1. Introductions: - Ties to the project - What do they want to see accomplished? Corrie: Okay. Will said that he would retype the minutes for all of us and send it to each one of you and he also said talk loud. I want to thank everybody for being here this evening this is a workshop at the Meridian Police Department of course with the City of Meridian and also -there he is Brad haven't seen you more then 30 minutes ago -but anyway this is concerning the golf course improvements and like I said I want to welcome everyone here. What we might do is just go around the room and introduce yourself and then we will go right into the agenda and see where we need to go from there so. Berg: Will Berg, City Clerk. De Weerd: Tammy de Weerd. Meridian City Council. Lovan-Holloway: Jennifer Lovan-Holloway. General Manager of Cherry Lane Golf Course. Funkhouser: My name is Tom Funkhouser. Superintendent of Cherry Lane Golf Course. Link: I'm Nancy Link I'm Vice President of Cherry Lane Rec. Gallivan: Sharon Gallivan with Spink Butler Clapp. Butler: Joann Butler (inaudible). Steele: Creg Steele Parks and Rec Commission. Kingsford: Grant Kingsford. Ada County Commissioner. Ewing: John Ewing. Meridian City Council Special Workshop January 27, 2003 Page 2 of 27 Giesler: Bob Giesler. Yerrington: Max Yerrington. Smith: Gary Smith. Watson: Brad Watson. McCandless: Cherie McCandless. City Council. Nary: Bill Nary. City Council. Nichols: Bill Nichols. Meridian City Attorney. Corrie: Okay and the ones in back here. R. Lovan: Rick Lovan, Cherry Lane Golf Course. L. Lovan: Laree Lovan. Holloway: Tad Holloway, Cherry Lane Golf Course. Corrie: Okay and Elroy is with us today. This way you can't get out. Okay I'm going to follow the agenda that Tammy and the attorney, Joann Butler, put together and I want to thank you for that. I was gone all last week and got it put together so thank you Tammy. Ties to the project and what do they would like to see accomplished. So I guess we can go around the room and anybody that would like to say what their ties are to the project and what they would like to see accomplished here this evening. Anybody have anything that they want to do before we get started. De Weerd: I'll start. What I would like to see is to talk about the things that need to be improved and find a solution on how to move forward with them. Lovan-Holloway: I don't either. One of the things, maybe not what's accomplished but maybe for some of those that are new here maybe like Grant or Tommy or whatever would like to tell them what their ties are so they know what the involvement. Whether they were on Council at the time or something like that. Corrie: That would be a good idea. Grant. Kingsford: I was on the golf committee first in 1977. (Inaudible). I served on the City Council for six years and was Mayor for 12. (Inaudible). Meridian Ciry Council Special Workshop January 27, 2003 Page 3 of 27 Corrie: John. Ewing: I'm here because I got invited I guess. I think on the second nine I was on the committee that helped put that together and so that (inaudible). Giesler: I was councilman. I was on the (inaudible) with Grant all that time. (Inaudible). Yerrington: I'm Max Yerrington and I served on the Council with Grant and I hit a ball out there once in awhile, about two or three times a year. Inaudible Speaker: (Inaudible). Corrie: Nancy. Link: I'm just interested in helping departments (inaudible) and see what can do to make the golf course an asset. Corrie: Tom, I know Tom. Funkhouser: Just an observer. Corrie: Creg. Steele: Just here to help if I can in the process. Corrie: Anybody? Gary Smith or Brad? Any of the Council? I do want to echo what Tammy had said that we want to look at some solutions here the best we can and partnership and see if we can't make that the best golf course in Meridian that maybe the only one right now but we want it to be the best. I think we can all work together and see if we can't iron out some problems and what the city can do and what the lease can do and everything else. 2. Report by Cherry Lane Golf Course by Jennifer Lovan-Holloway and Nancy Link: - Youth program - Vision for the future Corrie: S o with that let's have the report by Jennifer about the Cherry Lane Youth Programs and Vision for the Future. Lovan-Holloway: On the page that everybody got it does have the Cherry Lane Golf Course 2000 I think it's on the third page. I'm just going to kind of read from that. I have a couple things that I will add to that. Mostly I'm going to go over our junior stuff that we have. W e have a very good junior program and I'm very Meridian City Council Special Workshop January 27, 2003 Page 4 of 27 proud of what we are doing out there on that. Cherry Lane Golf Course has been committed to bringing the (inaudible) the activities that follow indicate the level of dedication to that commitment. The Meridian High School varsity golf team finished the 2001 and 2002 golf season as state champions. This is due to a large part because the team has Cherry Lane Golf Course as the home course. The team played beginning late February and continues the end of May. The girls' team also qualified to go to the state tournament. The junior varsity players that rival other school varsity quality. 32 players regulate the use of the facility and the staff at the golf course (inaudible) top quality team. The golf course also allows the team, to use the facility for fundraising. We support the memorial tournament for fundraising for scholarship funds for playing (inaudible) for Meridian High. We have given six scholarships since the beginning and we (inaudible) started that foundation in 1995, 96 but we are in (inaudible). Cherry Lane is front course in hosting other high school tournaments. They sponsor the regular high school team meet as well as special tournaments. They host Wally Lovan invitational high school tournament. In 2002 20 teams played at that tournament. It will host the SIC and girls district this year. Meridian High School also brings PE classes in the fall and (inaudible) use, of the driving range. Although it no longer has a program for the Middle School has used the facility for PE classes too. (Inaudible) have also been given at the request that Meridian Elementary students considered at risk. Other districts use the course. Kuna High School team practices once a week throughout the season in the spring, some players from Bishop Kelly also practice on the course. In the 2003 Idaho City will bring several players to (inaudible) in an effort to establish a team at their school. Meridian City Recreation has two sessions we cover June and Jufy. Approximately 20 to 25 youngsters come out for lessons and range. Volunteers teach the lessons. Cherry Lane (inaudible) the range the City fees provide golf clubs. Pro volunteers also offer lessons to adults in the city recreation program. Cherry Lane records the Idaho Junior Golf program hosting one to two tournaments each summer. Students from western Idaho play various course we did competitive play. Sometimes Cherry Lane is asked to host additional tournaments if other courses refuse. Cherry Lane has (inaudible) reputation for golfing. The staff was on the state board regulating the Idaho Junior Golf Program. Cherry Lane has had since 1988 its own junior league, which plays throughout the summer, 50 to 60 players from ages 5 to 17 play on a Wednesday morning in a variety of games. LPGA juniors come to Cherry Lane once a year for instructional play. This is those from Cherry Lane and the PGA. The final item to mention is not golf. The course is to host cross country meets for the high school and junior high. This represents the Cherry Lane (inaudible) needs to be a model of the community to serve to you. And I have to tell you again I'm currently on the Idaho Junior Golf Board and I have another two terms two years left on that. My husband Tad Holloway was also on the Idaho Junior Golf Board. We believe very strongly on junior stuff in that. It's very - I just can't say enough about that. My other things that I wanted to kind of touch base on and I know you guys have it. Some of the front page tells some of the things we've done during the year. A couple of things that I want to just touch base on a couple of Meridian City Council Special Workshop January 27, 2003 Page 5 of 27 capital improvements that we did this last year. We finished one tee box that was incomplete on number eight. We put in a new tee box on number seven. We are in the process of having dirt and that out on number one. Where there will also be a new tee box put there. W e have the homeowners for Ashford Greens Subdivision was gracious enough to buy fountains for us this year so that we could aerate our pond. We have hooked up with Idaho Power, which Cherry Lane does pay for all of that. We had to reconstruct the lake at the back of our driving range for those of you that have been near the pond was washing out the homeowners property behind the lake. So that was a big construction that we had to go in and put rock in and make sure that would no longer wash their property (inaudible). One of the other things that we did do which Tommy has been very great in coming to us this last year and has been with us a year and a half now. One of our lightweight bowlers from him he has been using out on the golf course. We were able to purchase a n ew tractor last year a nd t his year hopefully we will be purchasing a new aerator and a sprayer. We will also be increasing and updating our golf cart squeaks. So that's my -and I'm going to turn it over to Tommy - oh one other thing, we did finish the driving range that was incomplete. I'll also let Tommy kind of tell you a little about what he's going to be doing in the near future. Funkhouser: First off I'm going to let you have a little bit of background of who I am. I'm (inaudible). I'm one of the few certified golf course superintendents in the state of Idaho. I've worked at various golf courses in the Treasure Valley including Hillcrest, Ontario, Cherry Lane in the beginning and Centennial. At Centennial I was supervised by an all volunteer crew that (inaudible). Installing the water system and (inaudible) fee and (inaudible) and then I maintained it for ten years after that. During the time I was maintaining that I helped the City of Nampa with Ridgecrest Golf Course doing the same thing. Supervising the water system. I didn't have any volunteer help. (Inaudible) but I was there as technical advisor and did most of the watering and the grass (inaudible) when I left Centennial Golf Course I was no less retired for about four years until I got a call from Laree Lovan to come over and give a little hand flash which I was glad to do. I was getting tired of playing golf everyday, which I did for two years. So that brings you up to par of where I am. As far as Cherry Lane Golf Course. It does have potential but right now its getting held back because of some things that were built into it during the construction particularly on the new nine. And my focus is try to improve Cherry Lane Golf Course that everybody (inaudible) be proud of and the City can be proud of that will be comparable to other surrounding golf courses. Now granted that Cherry Lane and the City of Meridian don't have the resources that Falcon Crest, Banbury and Spurwing that some of these have but I think there are some things that can be done down the road to bring it (inaudible) white line against some of your competitors and if it isn't brought up to standard. People are not going to play on your golf course, they are not going to increase the revenue, increase the participation (inaudible). Corrie: Thank you Tom. Meridian City Council Special Workshop January 27, 2003 Page 6 of 27 Link: Sorry I have to stand and speak because I am a school teacher and I have to use my hands and stuff. I hope you don't mind. I want to just echo Tommy's last statement because improving the play at Cherry Lane is really paramount to anything we want to do in the future. We all know that the economy has been kind of slow and so golf business has been kind of slow in line with many other businesses. But we also I believe have had a reduced amount of play simply because we have some areas that need to be competitive and in order to do that and I've listed in the list entitled visions of the future. Item c through six. These items are ones that you'll see from out of the PGA reports that you have in front of you. But they all rely on item number one to be completed in order for those to really come to (inaudible) without number one those next f ive items you can't really improve. Down on number seven though we begin on items that Cherry Lane Recreation would like to see in the future taken care of and we do intend to take care of these. One would be to put some decorative and protective fencing on the roadways where the golf course is exposed. We have continually problems with mostly juveniles playing a game of run around on the golf course and its really frustrating to us to have them race across the greens and damage - major damage I might add. So we would like to put up something that would maybe r estrict t he a ccess t o t hose a reas a nd h opefully m ake i t l ook n ice t oo. Also to maybe reduce the amount of walk on traffic or maybe (inaudible) through the pro shop. We would like to landscape the picnic area to the south of the clubhouse where there will be scoreboards and areas for tournaments, picnic type activities. We would like to add parking and park staging to the south of the golf course or north of the golf course. Currently if we have a big tournament and we pull carts into the area that is currently paved its extremely crowded and with traffic patterns of people coming and going. I see people hopping out there trying to get out of the way. So we would like to arrange that a little more efficiently. We would like to complete the landscaping directly in front of the clubhouse. Currently it's in need of some additional work. We would like to work with Nampa Meridian Irrigation to improve the area on number three where a ditch was covered and it is currently just road mix and we are concerned about the air quality and that is mentioned at the beginning of the PGA report and water shed quality and currently we do have a problem with the traffic that goes across there is a nice shortcut for the elementary students that go to Pioneer Elementary School. We are concerned that maybe there is a safety issue with people golfing and students crossing that area. And I didn't list one other item and that is to prepare a new greens nursery. Currently we have an old practice green that we use to maintain a section of green turf so when we do have damage we can pull a section of that out for repair on the damaged areas. We need to phase that out its far enough away that if also if bordering the street that its not being damaged too. So we would like top prepare a new green nursery closer to the clubhouse and we envision putting that down somewhere around our picnic area where it won't have the access to trap (inaudible) from the street that the current one has. And all of that I hope is going to result in number 12 which is to increase the amount of play. Meridian City Council Special Workshop January 27, 2003 Page 7 of 27 Lovan-Holloway: One thing that is not here and I know that (inaudible) mention is and I know that this is something that the Council will probably need to do or come up with. I have asked Keith and I know Keith is now not feeling very well but I had asked to maybe the city to look into writing an ordinance, kind of like McCall city (inaudible) for non golfers being on the golf course. Some type of an ordinance so that we don't have these little kids and so those homeowners know and the parents know that these kids can not walk across to get hurt. I would just like somebody maybe to look into that. Link: Well have a process too that those non paying golfers (inaudible). Kingsford: The code and I see this not only in McCall but (inaudible) quite the (inaudible) on municipal courses (inaudible) in entry points. Anywhere along there where you can put that sign there. Ordinance such and such with the City of Meridian prohibits (inaudible) something to that effect. Do have a little bit more (inaudible) removing that area and are aware of the fact that isn't a park it's a golf course. (Inaudible) dogs and kids (inaudible). Corrie: So we do have some other ordinances that we can look at. Kingsford: It all depends on - I think Nampa does (inaudible). Pretty sure Caldwell does it. Lovan-Holloway: Warm Springs. Kingsford: Warm Springs does. Lovan-Holloway: They do that because I asked them. Nichols: One caution I make with that is I think all of those other courses are all truly municipal courses. McCall and certainly Nampa is Municipal courses they are not leased or (inaudible). I mean we can look at it certainly. (Inaudible). It would appear to me that if somebody is on there without paying the greens fee or without your permission (inaudible). Lovan-Holloway: It is and my biggest concern. I'm not so much worried about the people that are sneaking on. My biggest concern is (inaudible) Subdivision isn't using it as a park, they are told by their realtors it's a park. You know things like that, walking the dog, strolling dogs that kind of thing is more then likely. Link: Football, volleyball and soccer. Lovan-Holloway: Especially the elementary school with the elementary that is - if they go around the elementary school its almost a mile if they go around. If they go through the golf course right by your house. A nice little pathway. Meridian City Council Special Workshop January 27, 2003 Page 8 of 27 Kingsford: (Inaudible) you will share that liability if somebody gets plastered by a ball. Lovan-Holloway: Something I would like to see done in the future. It won't stop everybody. Corrie: I want to welcome Charlie Roundtree here and thanks Charlie. He was on the Council when Grant was Mayor. Roundtree: Oh no. When I heard he was coming on I left. (Inaudible discussion) Corrie: Okay any other comments? 3. Historical Overview: - Old nine holes - New nine holes Corrie: Okay we have historical overview, old nine holes and new nine holes. I suppose Grant you would probably be the one that has been there the longest. Kingsford: Well the history I think was back to farmers in the early seventies that it would be ideal to develop a section of land that apparently they all sold to create a golf course to the city. And I think seventy five well there were a lot of efforts and I think in seventy-five they sold (inaudible) a company out of Seattle called Leavitt Nu Pacific and they took options on what became the front nine and options for what (inaudible) the back nine. They exercised those options on the front nine and did in fact (inaudible) construction architect. There were all kinds of problems to that. The engineering firm was JUB and Gene Wright was the engineer and he admitted that he never did a golf course. He said that he would (inaudible) estimate of where the golf course was (inaudible). As the subdivision, by phases was completed the out of bounds sides (inaudible). The sprinkler s ystem w as b uilt. I t w as p robably w orking reasonably w ell a II t hings considered except they were all (inaudible) and every time that they would build a house then all of a sudden the sprinkler hit their house and so Cherry Lane (inaudible) had to make modifications to extremes and if that happens of course you don't have the coverage (inaudible) everybody wants the golf course to look just like their lawn but you can't do that with the sprinkler system that's all (inaudible). A lot of the issues there, I think there was a certain amount of (inaudible) involved (inaudible). The first year there was all kinds of problems in it (inaudible). As time progressed a lot of things (inaudible) on the back nine that reverted back to those two farmers and (inaudible) but it reverted back and there was pressure there on city government to do away with the concept of building the back nine. The mayor at that time (inaudible). So having two ownerships Meridian City Council Special Workshop January 27, 2003 Page 9 of 27 there. I did never get those guys in agreement to put together a development plan that would develop the back nine. I did sit down with both those guys and say hey what about you all looked at a development fee per lot that would generate some money and perhaps the city could get involved and build that back nine (inaudible). (Inaudible) that the lot fees generated or would generate a build out and then of course that was (inaudible) a build out at particular densities (inaudible) proposed not was eventually approved. I don't know how that came about to the point where they approved (inaudible). There were some condominiums and concept of townhouse and zero lot line homes in the center. Any rate then two developers agreed to that (inaudible) then they exercised some options that Brighton Corporation dropped. But (inaudible) Brighton, Law and Bishop where you got those 40 acres modified the development of (inaudible) it would be laid out, made it a lot more playable in a lot of respects, more land develop (inaudible) a little wider. (Inaudible) taxpayers (inaudible). There's a lot more land on the back nine then there is front nine. What was it some 38 acres I believe of golf course property on the front nine and then it's about 60 or 70 on the back nine. Going through the history of the latest originally the developer Don Blevins proposed that that in this was a part of getting annexation approval from the city and then taking it over west that they would build the back nine and then build a club house and other amenities a maintenance shed, and all (inaudible) accumulated over some 30 years (inaudible). They were going to build those things and turn those all over to the city on the (inaudible) early 80's (inaudible) went back to Seattle and saw her (inaudible). Several of these kinds of meetings took place though before they left (inaudible) quality construction. They (inaudible) a ton of golf courses in the golf (inaudible) whatever you want we'll amend it to the golf course or amend (inaudible) shoestring golf course. He built what Don Blevins told him to build which is your golf course (inaudible) with the front nine. The back nine as I said we (inaudible) shoestring we got the - I keep picking on (inaudible) and I apologize. (Inaudible) Ralph got some people to help with some fund raisers to supplement the money that was set aside for the lot piece. Those people three or was it four got passes that they could use for a total of a (inaudible) period if I remember right they all donated either real cash money (inaudible) or materials (inaudible) 10,000 dollars. Several of us, well not several there were some of us that (inaudible) wrote a check for 1,000 bucks I think from just anumber of -Max Yerrington was one I think and (inaudible). We set up a budget at the end of (inaudible) construction. (Inaudible discussion) Kingsford: And we did. We were able to con one of John's good friends Odale (inaudible). I think one of the things that really let down (inaudible) but the construction of Cloverdale nursery had contracted the sprinkler system on t he back nine and (inaudible). And the city then pressed them to do a quality construction. I think they had asked (inaudible) what was designed and that never h appened. S o what w e h ave n ow o n t he back n ine i s i nterior s prinkler Meridian City Council Special Workshop January 27, 2003 Page 10 of 27 system as well doesn't have coverage and the right heads. There are a number of issues with that. So along the (inaudible) long on any subject but the long short of it is that we have a golf course that has problems. It has a lot of potential I think that (inaudible) through the years kind of dumped on Cherry Lane Recreation (inaudible) standard of golf course. (Inaudible) country club and certainly that is not the case. Added to that is the (inaudible) everywhere else they call it bleach. (Inaudible) history and the soil is now (inaudible) and not very good for that. Those of you who have tried to grow grass and lawns, recognize that (inaudible) top soil you have to really work at growing a lawn. I can answer questions but from memory that was kind of (inaudible). Corrie: Anyone else. Butler: I just wanted to comment on although we weren't involved in the project from the back nine. Mostly Sharon went through all of the city's files (inaudible). Just including the pattern on what we saw in the file that was a real sure (inaudible). (Inaudible discussion) Butler: But it clearly showed if I could just say that it sounds like looking at the file it wasn't (inaudible) a long history of a lot of frustration that the city has faced. (Inaudible) or taking the (inaudible) and especially Cherry Lane Recreation (inaudible). Corrie: Okay anyone else have anything to say. Link: I really want to compliment the people who were on the gold course committee. As I have looked through the records myself, I was looking at the questions they were imposing and the concerns that they had over issues. And they asked exactly the right things and I'm concerned too that they didn't get what they thought they were getting. And so I just want to make sure that they hear my compliment about how they went about thinking about what they should get. Kingsford: (Inaudible). As we have looked at Cherry Lane over the time it was being constructed (inaudible). And then the new nine in the late 80's. There was some real shortage of golf courses at that time. I think what we have seen since then is a lot more holes (inaudible) and I think the numbers Cherry Lane (inaudible) adjust to the economy. It's the golf (inaudible) substantially more golf courses, if you look at the number of holes played today and equate that to the number of people that have increased there is about double the number of holes increased with the current population. As I look at other p laces a nd certainly (inaudible) originally. Cities have a tendency not to run golf courses very well. I just was in Idaho Falls Friday last week and in the Idaho Falls paper. The City of Idaho Falls owns three golf courses and the argument over there they got a lot of Meridian City Council Special Workshop January 27, 2003 Page 11 of 27 debate with raising fees (inaudible) because they are running in excess of 100,000 dollars on each one of those in the red. And two of those golf courses, I have played there and they are really nice golf courses (inaudible) and they are running in the red at Idaho Falls. And I know that was true in Ontario for some time the city would not (inaudible) leases them and people scraped by sometimes. It's a tough business and its particular tough market today because of the number of golf courses that are around. I know that because I can get a tee time. Corrie: Walt Morrow just came in and I'll introduce you all. He was on the Council numerous times and the P and Z. Walt just jump in here anywhere and if you want anything you want to say. We are kind of getting right now the historical overview of the first nine holes the second nine holes and Grant has given us some of the background on that. Anything else anyone would like to sound out. I guess one of my questions I had in the back nine if some of that work was gone and that -why was it not put in, just because of money is that what it was or it wasn't followed or I don't know I'm missing something here that you were talking about Grant that the city I think put in that back nine with the money from the homes to put in there and we find out now that the top soil is bad and the irrigation has been bad. Kingsford: We knew that (inaudible). Irrigation I think is a major thing and we keep going in if that wasn't the absolute best irrigation system you could buy. I think that (inaudible) a year before we golfed (inaudible) put in a new sprinkler system that (inaudible) and we golfed nine holes (inaudible). Link: Even in whatever it cost the actually design and the lucrative design of the actual sprinkler system on that nine. It really isn't a golf course system. Golf Course, well Tommy can tell you better about the configuration of where you locate the sprinkler head and how that ties into the rest of the system. And on the new nine that doesn't exists. You can't isolate heads, there are clusters of heads that work together that go onto the green, going to the fairways. You got to water the fairways the same as you water greens. So being able to utilize that particular system. I admire anyone who would be out there working and trying to figure out how to adjust things so they can get any kind of grass out there growing. Lovan-Holloway: And I do have a couple things. You did ask about topsoil. I know Grant did not go into this but I do know that we had one developer on our first three holes that did take all of the topsoil off those fairways. It was already used so there wasn't a lot Grant could do at the time. But he did put that developer on the hot seat and he did finally admit to taking that. Kingsford: Interestingly enough. He filled up a drainage ditch. (Inaudible) when he covered the drain ditch over on east and the one side of number two. There Meridian City Council Special Workshop January 27, 2003 Page 12 of 27 was ditch about seven or eight feet deep but the (inaudible) fairway off number two. (Inaudible). Lovan-Holloway: And we planted it that way cause they gave us (inaudible). We are still picking rocks. Kingsford: (Inaudible). De Weerd: (Inaudible). (Inaudible discussion) Corrie: I remember it was in 82 and they scraped the topsoil off of our place too at home. And digging done about three feet I got a lot of plywood and a place where no grass would grow. Kingsford: (Inaudible). Nichols: Commissioner Kingsford did Baldock sign the back nine too. Kingsford: No. Nichols: (Inaudible) Kingsford: I guess you could say that JUB and maybe (inaudible) initially had a concept plan and I think you could find that somewhere in the file. We indicated that we added 40 acres or that is the same of Brighton Corporation added 40 acres. And improved some of those holes widen (inaudible) things out primarily the same based on that (inaudible) Lovan-Holloway: And Mr. Nichols just for your own benefit. As we talked about Mr. Baldock. Mr. Baldock, that was the first automatic sprinkler system that he had ever done. So (inaudible) guinea pig for that. Corrie: Okay any other comments (inaudible)? 4. Key Elements of the USGA Report: - Good aspects - Challenges ~ Irrigation Maintenance facility Equipment Construction Corrie: Okay lets move on to key elements of the USGA report. I think everybody has a copy of that. (Inaudible). Meridian City Council Special Workshop January 27, 2003 Page 13 of 27 (End of Side One) Steele: (Inaudible) multi-hole approach. I started at one end and (inaudible) checked fairways talked about pathways talked about the water checked sprinkler heads. And when he looked at the sprinkler heads on the newer nine it was his (inaudible) that they were residential and have never ever been put on a commercial golf course. But again we checked soil samples on both fairways and greens and he was really thorough in just going through the process, you know but I guess that's what he does. Explained the process that he was looking at going through the pictures he was taking and what he wanted to see and show and (inaudible) you can see the dry areas. But I was pretty impressed with you know the way he went through (inaudible). Lovan-Holloway: I can't say enough good about Matt Nelson. You know he comes in he's not for the city, he's not for Cherry Lane Recreation he's just a very neutral guy that either one of the city or Cherry Lane Recreation in the next year have that service to rely on him for questions at any time anybody can call him and that is great. I think he was very, very efficient with the stuff in his report. You can't disagree with him. The things that are in here are very, very much problems or not problems out at the golf course and one of the things that I think to touch bases on and I don't know which page, I didn't highlight it. But one of the things that he said. Oh he talks about aerating fairways, which is great to help with the poor soil conditions. One of the things that is not in this report and the other guys can tell you (inaudible). One of his things was if you don't have a sprinkler system and y ou aerate a b rown spot you a re still just g oing to have holes in a brown spot instead of - so if we still don't have a sprinkler system to maintain it its not going to do us a lot of good to aerate part of those areas that don't have any system to work with. Steele: (Inaudible) Matt in talking to us if he would (inaudible) report out what he felt the most important (inaudible) so in (inaudible) irrigation first and went through what he figured were the important factors in order. So (inaudible) when you look at the report you guys know where he's coming from. Butler: Another thing that I would point out in the report is that his last comment in the introduction where he says Cherry Lane Golf Course has the potential to compete favorably with the Boise Golf Market (inaudible) irrigation and (inaudible) and I think that is a real positive that even with the number of golf courses we have in the valley (inaudible). And he did (inaudible) priority of the things that he felt needed to take care of and then priority with the golf course irrigation first of all, maintenance facility, the equipment and the construction (inaudible). Funkhouser: I've got to say about golf course irrigation system. The irrigation system is the most important ingredient to have in your golf course. It's probably the least understood by most golfers and many people abuse it just because of Meridian City Council Special Workshop January 27, 2003 Page 14 of 27 that reason but you can't go good terms without a good water system and along those lines you can have the best designed water system installed poorly and you can still have a bad water system. You can have the best water system put in by the best you can and have people operate it properly and still have (inaudible) so the most you just have to have it all together. And if you start with the first one with the bad design it doesn't make a difference what you've got, down the road I don't care how much equipment you got, ho many people you got, how big your (inaudible) you still have a problem. Corrie: Well we know the irrigation is definitely a problem. Equipment (inaudible). Nichols: Let me ask Tom a question about irrigation. Is it possible to design irrigation system that can be put in by phases? Funkhouser: Put in by phases? Nichols: Yeah. Finkhouser: Yeah you can have one designed. You can put it in one hole, two holes, and three holes. But its probably going to cost you more money in the long run in less you are doing it in house. In your own work force because contractors, they aren't going to come in and do one hole and then go away and come back in another year. So to answer your question yes you can. If you tried to do it in stages, your going to be able to buy a new part with the old part so you still maintain what hasn't been renovated. That sometimes gets to be a little difficult. Butler: Having saying that, if you do it in phases its clear to (inaudible) for the rest of the system or - as you go along (inaudible). Funkhouser: You can. The first thing you are going to decide is when you have your new water system is what the water demand is and that takes you to the pump station and if you don't have a pump station start a new one. Design a system (inaudible) w ater s upply o r t he o Id system. But y ou h ave t o h ave t he whole package is what I'm tying to say ahead of time. Kingsford: Along that line really to tie into the old system out there and least from my knowledge the front nine (inaudible) the main line is inadequate really to - if you did it right lets say for holes 10, 11 and 12 if you construct those for example. There wouldn't be enough water even to push it in through the existing three inch line to add new service plus the remaining holes on that line. Funkhouser: Your 100 percent right. Kingsford: I'm an old farmer I know this stuff. Meridian City Council Special Workshop January 27, 2003 Page 15 of 27 Lovan-Holloway: I think one of Mr. Nichols questions is could you do one nine maybe and then another nine the next year or start out with your pump house and the answer to that yes you can do that in stages - I mean that is feasible. Nichols: My question was (inaudible) irrigation (inaudible). It seems to me part of the problem was identifying the poor design (inaudible) get a good design that's one thing but then (inaudible) but where there is options but even if it is more expensive in the long run it still maybe the way you do it. Just like if I go out and pay cash for a car and the car doesn't cost me as much as if it would if I made payments but that' the only way I could do it and so one of the things we need to look at to approach this is (inaudible) critical first steps and what are the options (inaudible) options and be selective is it an option. If so is it going to be nine or (inaudible) layout of the holes (inaudible) discussed (inaudible). Butler: (Inaudible) that you know when you get to that last three your still going to have (inaudible). Corrie: Sounds like the front nine is taking what its got now (inaudible) from what you are telling us. The back nine is not that much better either. Kingsford: It seems like the new nine at least has adequate (inaudible). Funkhouser: Sections in there that are undersized. Corrie: But you got a sprinkler problem. Kingsford: What ended up happening I think (inaudible) in terms of design is the coverage (inaudible) and then there was (inaudible) amenities taken away from (inaudible). So spread those heads out (inaudible) have adequate coverage in spots as well. The old nine I did (inaudible) for every quarter mile you push water through a good size pipe you get a lot more resistance (inaudible) and what they have done is for a lot of that I recall is a three inch (inaudible) standard sprinkler you know at a park (inaudible) and eighth of a mile of pipe on it on a three inch line. And (inaudible). Funkhouser: (Inaudible) the back nine was the first automatic system that (inaudible) ever attempted to put in up to that point it was always been (inaudible) system. So all you had to have was a main line that (inaudible) water and you didn't run anymore then you had to if you understand what I'm saying. But now when you automate it your asking for a demand at a certain time and now the main lines are to small. That was part of Bob's problem. (Inaudible) in fact 25 years ago that was quite a big deal to have an automatic system. Lovan-Holloway: And one of my biggest concerns as we go into (inaudible) irrigation and maybe I sound selfish but I would like somebody that does a golf Meridian City Council Special Workshop January 27, 2003 Page 16 of 27 course irrigation system to design - I don't know where the money will come from or where (inaudible) but I don't feel that especially (inaudible) you know I don't know what their qualifications were. I was only eight so I can't tell you what they were doing when they were putting that in. The new nine I know was designed by Randy Risedale with evergreen sprinklers to (inaudible) engineer it was never engineered. The stuff that Brad put out to bid that was told to put out to bid was not qualified, it was a rough draft and I really feel that if we are going to accomplish anything or see it improve that's one of the things that needs to be done - we need a qualified engineer to do that. Link: I absolutely second that and addition to that I think there needs to be some sort of a project overseer that actually follows through on is it installed the way it was meant to be installed. Lovan-Holloway: I know from speaking to Walt and I talked to John about it but the s ystem t hat t hey t hought t hey were g etting b ecause t hey wanted t o make sure that the new nine was not like the old nine. I mean that was one of their biggest concerns after minutes after minutes that I read from their meetings and that Walt was very shocked I don't know if shocked is the word but to learn that the new nine sprinkler system was not accidental. I'm putting words in your mouth but that's kind of - Unidentified Speaker: (Inaudible). Link: Just to repeat what Jennifer said. She's really not being selfish she's just saying what the golf course inspector said. That's his advice for Cherry Lane is to (inaudible). Corrie: I guess what's come to mind here is who did oversee the last nine holes. I mean Walt was I don't know surprised or what but - Watson: I was the one on site on the construction of the second nine. Jennifer is right the design that we had was (inaudible) sketch. (Inaudible) and has Mr. Kingsford said the area that that was based upon grew based on shorter (inaudible). The land was donated. We had a fine (inaudible) amount of money for sprinkler and irrigation materials that those heads (inaudible) but realistically Bob that nine was (inaudible). Lovan-Holloway: And just to touch what Brad said on (inaudible) on page three of your report it does talk about those heads are between 65 and 75 is pushing it (inaudible) 100 feet in between which doesn't (inaudible). Link: That's pretty (inaudible) even the distance aside there not in the proper configuration for good water coverage. Keeping in mind that you are watering different areas at different rates and you can't control that. Meridian City Council Special Workshop January 27, 2003 Page 17 of 27 Butler: (Inaudible) subdivision got completed but the actually boundaries (inaudible) but a survey was done of the golf course boundaries and so there is actually a survey now and at least you've got that to start with. And now (inaudible) at least there is a starting point now (inaudible). Kingsford: Interesting (inaudible) the out of bounds moved at the whim of the people of the subdivision each evening (inaudible). Lovan-Holloway: Along the (inaudible) survey lines just for Mr. Nary and Mrs. McCandless that weren't there on surveyings you know we did have (inaudible) that was redone after it had already been surveyed, we did have tee box (inaudible). So there is things like that we've had to deal with on the new nine that - t he g reen w as probably t he b iggest i ssue b ecause t he g olf c nurse w as already growing and seeded and coming up and having to move that was abig - Kingsford: (Inaudible). Lovan-Holloway: So what it did cause us a six-month delay on opening. Corrie: Anything else on the report that we need to bring up? It's a good report it's very comprehensive and it says it the way it is. So we know the irrigation, equipment and construction and all that was lacking in many areas. I guess that being said we are getting down close to wear the rubber meets the road here is how are we going to (inaudible) any of the changes that are being contemplated here. 5. Funding Options /Alternatives: Corrie: So I'm sure you though about that where we need to go. Council is here and we would like to h ear what your funding options are and alternatives and how we might be able to help, if we can or not. Unidentified Speaker: (Inaudible). Butler: (Inaudible) I mean we can be as creative as possible. (Inaudible). We would like to work with the city to explore some of the ways to (inaudible) the city more then Cherry Lane (inaudible). Explore that with the city and maybe (inaudible) come off of the (inaudible) ideas (inaudible). Some of the things that we thought of - I mean these are not municipal (inaudible). But I know in other cities very often those same areas (inaudible) for the city (inaudible) is a city amenity. That's just one small (inaudible). Kingsford: (Inaudible) Centennial being classy for example. (Inaudible) parking (inaudible) start looking at conditional uses be sure that (inaudible). Meridian City Council Special Workshop January 27, 2003 Page 18 of 27 Lovan-Holloway: (Inaudible) the second fundraising committee for the new nine and you know how tough it was to bring funds in. I mean I don't know what the volunteer - I wasn't doing a lot at that time. Kingsford: Certainly one of the things that (inaudible) interest rates are (inaudible). Smith: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Gary. Smith: As far as funding is concerned I think that we need to know where we are going. (Inaudible) if the irrigation is the biggest issue then one of these gentleman or one of these firms that's listed on page five of the report can be contacted or (inaudible) cost to develop a plan for the irrigation system and based on that plan, based on that cost then I guess you can start more seriously discussing alternatives that might be available for funding but without that kind of information its going to be awfully difficult to know where you are going and how much its going to cost to get there. Unidentified Speaker: (Inaudible) Nary: I was just going to say what Mrs. link said from the outside and from everything I've heard until we get that particular issue on the irrigation system decided its really hard to prioritize everything else and I guess the hard part from the city's perspective is I don't think its to difficult to see that we really have one of two options (inaudible) and the city gets back a tremendous amount of money which the city of Boise (inaudible) pretty expensive. Secondarily we can look at those types of things and at least that gives us some idea of what kind of cost we are looking at because we don't have any (inaudible) I would guess that the (inaudible) is not going to give us that. Even if we were going to go to the tax payers with some type of bond to do that we need some sort of priority plan of what we are going to do. Why is it worth it, why would the non-public want to pay taxes to a public golf course? Why they think that is a amenity to the city, because I think it's a great amenity but I think we have to start with what's that going to cost and I think if we at least have an idea of the irrigation system because I think we are exactly right. I mean (inaudible) report unless we do that it's a waste of money we are (inaudible) rat hole if we don't at least figure out how do we make sure that what we do after we fix the irrigation system. Is this going to work, is this going to grow is it going to make the golf course playable (inaudible). Kingsford: I believe that has a separate (inaudible). It doesn't have to be that. Nary: I mean even if its half of that, I mean we don't have 500,000 dollars laying around but even that we still don't know what it is. I guess number one is we Meridian City Council Special Workshop January 27, 2003 Page 19 of 27 need to know what it would take what are the costs for design and then we would look at the other priorities we have that we can do. You know even from looking at this from a partnership, which is the way I think we are. (Inaudible) Cherry Lane Recreation want to promote and sell partnerships, memberships or whatever it is to (inaudible) one side fundraising you are going to need that as well to be able to show the public what you can do and what can be there for them (inaudible). Kingsford: (Inaudible) you are absolutely right Mr. Nary (inaudible). The thing looks like (inaudible). Butler: (Inaudible) municipal funding (inaudible) overall plan to (inaudible) and then also (inaudible). Those kinds of things (inaudible). Lovan-Holloway: One of my other questions on that and maybe I'm jumping ahead of stories. One of the things -- do we have any - I realize that a final inspection was never done at the new nine and it was supposed to of been done. Was there a reason that was not done? Is there someone -those people who did put in the sprinkler system that was inadequate is there some reason we can say to them. You know here it is, you guys didn't do this right. Is that an option? Corrie: (Inaudible) Lovan-Holloway: I was just putting that out that there was supposed to of been a final inspection had there been one we probably not have --. Funkhouser: (Inaudible) we can't go back and I do believe there wasn't a formal final inspection and I know that we didn't come here to talk about why we got here but there were people there all the time (inaudible) we had meetings after it was done to talk about it. I think Walt said there that I was very disappointed and (inaudible) need to go back now to the contractor and tell him he did a (inaudible) job we should've (inaudible). I think that they did use the material that they were supposed to. Some of the areas that isn't being covered it probably should've been brought up in the growing season. Its kind of hard to tell that you are going to have dry spots until the grass starts to grow but I think (inaudible). Kingsford: (Inaudible) inspection done (inaudible). Funkhouser: Maybe not a formal one but we had kind of a year (inaudible) to go through there. And I do believe that (inaudible). Watson: (Inaudible) inspection was walking around the golf course with Wally. (Inaudible). Unidentified Speaker: It seems to me that (inaudible). I don't think at this particular point (inaudible). Meridian City Council Special Workshop January 27, 2003 Page 20 of 27 Roundtree: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Charlie. Roundtree: I agree with what (inaudible). It seems to me that (inaudible) at this point I have not heard anybody say I accept a certain responsibility (inaudible) the city needs to step up and say we did what we could (inaudible). Otherwise we go out and (inaudible) 60,000 dollars a hole for the irrigation system and everyone's going to throw up their hands and (inaudible). To agreement initially that we want to solve the problem (inaudible). So I think we need to get some commitments. (Inaudible). De Weerd: I agree with a lot of the statements Charlie made. We do need to go out and contact the organizations and see if we can get some prices on design and (inaudible) and I think we all need to accept the responsibility for this (inaudible). Make a committee up (inaudible) chairman of the golf course and (inaudible) that would then take that information and raise some ideas to the council and Cherry Lane Rec on how we can pursue the finances. What are our options (inaudible) our attorneys need to look at that. I think the committee can look at that and also like Charlie said as a homeowner out there I (inaudible) I can't say if all residents would or if they even want to play. I think from what I have heard they would. If they can see improvements (inaudible) but that's something that the committee can really take and focus on from the finance part of it and find the solutions to this because it is going to be throwing money out the window by trying to do the other improvements without the irrigation and look at phasing and see if we can just start -just make up a strategic plan on how we can go about correcting this. It doesn't do any good (inaudible) that opportunity is gone (inaudible). Corrie: You are absolutely right, we don't need to point fingers we want solutions here. My main point that I want to bring across is this is a lease type situation with the city and a leasee and where we fit in as far as the lease there and the money. So I think Charlie is on the right track and then so are you, we need a committee but a committee can not go so far then you've got to put the money down and that's the one that's going to be the hard for all of us because there are people that have nothing to do with it at all and there is homeowners out there like myself. I think that is a great idea I want to see it go. (Inaudible) because I own a home out there but the city has to account to the (inaudible) and so we are going to have to sit down and look at this pretty hard and where the money is coming from in relation to the lease. The way I read the lease is a lot different then some people read it and somebody else reads it and they have a different idea on what they think. So from a city standpoint we are the keepers of money so we got to get out here and make sure we all understand where this is coming from. If we can help the golf course in loans or whatever the case maybe or who could be part o f it. That's got to b e done b y this committee b ut I agree with Meridian City Council Special Workshop January 27, 2003 Page 21 of 27 Charlie there is people out there that will more then do the share that they want to do that happen. So if we got to go the next roll I think do we want to form a committee on both sides and see (inaudible). Any suggestions? Butler: (Inaudible) recreation (inaudible). I think there is a huge funding (inaudible). It may not take a lot of effort to just consider (inaudible). Kingsford: (Inaudible) to my knowledge Cherry Lane has never turned down (inaudible). Typically we (inaudible). (End of Side Two) Unidentified Speaker: (Inaudible) whatever the funding package comes out part of the sales pitch has got to be the Association of Cherry Lane Rec (inaudible) I know (inaudible). Nary: I guess I would also agree I think like Mr. Roundtree said I mean I guess that's what I thought was my point and that the only option from the city's perspective was either nothing or get it all and I don't think nothing (inaudible) and I think our main role besides working through the funding issues is tying to get that message across to the general public. You know obviously the connections and the contacts Cherry Lane Recreation has in the golfing community is going to be the strongest asset in the golfing community to score whatever long term project there (inaudible). Obviously the other people that need to be around this table or in this committee is the homeowners association route (inaudible) that m aybe a small piece b ut it's a piece that - I'm going to assume that most people bought a house there because there is a golf course there. I'm going to assume they didn't all buy because (inaudible). So I am going to guess they would like it to remain a golf course and they would like it to remain a viable playing golf course not just for them but for everyone else because it adds to the value of their home if they do that. So those folks need to be r equired t o g et t hat p iece d one a nd o bviously we n eed t o w ork with t hese funding issues but until - ultimately I guess I would say through that committee work some sort of master plan that would go out to the public. This is what you want (inaudible) like Walt said it might be five years or ten years of ultimately where Cherry Lane golf course is going to be and I don't golf and I'm the opposite. I don't golf so I'm the opposite of what Joann said but I recognize how much of an asset that can be if you look at the buy dot com tour not everybody gets to golf at Hillcrest but yet having that there adds to the City of Boise adds to the golfing interest in this community adds to a lot of other courses by people being interested in (inaudible). So I think you know that's ultimately where we want is some sort master plan saying where is Cherry Lane Golf Course going to be i n f ive y ears t en y ears a nd h ow d o we get t here a nd i f w e d on't h ave t he private funding piece of it what's going to happen. We are going to have to work hard on that and hopefully get the Cherry Lane Recreation can take the lead on that side. We can only do so much on the city side of the funding but we can Meridian City Council Special Workshop January 27, 2003 Page 22 of 27 look at least doing it over a time period. We can phase it in a lot better (inaudible). So we can look at those things but I think that's also where we have to start is that committee (inaudible). The irrigation thing obviously is the first step. I think we can all probably agree if we don't get that done then nothing else will (inaudible). Funkhouser: We have two things to add here. You talk about the irrigation system you don't have the design (inaudible). There is a local person semi- retired you does golf course design, irrigation design and parks (inaudible). He did Centennial Golf Course, he did Ridgecrest and he did Banbury and he doesn't have any (inaudible) as far as one brand over the other. He only charges a fee if he charges anything. (Inaudible) total package. Some of these are tied in with the construction. I'd like to throw his name into the hat you can contact him. He would be glad to meet with this group or (inaudible) to give you some guidance. His name is Lee Bean and I find him (inaudible). Nary: I was going to say if he doesn't charge anything that sounds pretty inviting to me. Link: As long as he really is qualified and I certainly trust Mr. Funkhousers opinion about that. I just know that's some of what has gotten us in this trouble. Nary: And that maybe one of those things that after you look at that and still go through a consultant or someone else just look at that design and not necessarily start from scratch but looking at what we have kind of like what USGA did. So again your not just starting with how it was done before but it sounds like you at least have somebody that has a tremendous amount of experience and maybe wasn't --. Lovan-Holloway: One of the other issues and it might not have anything to do with it but as you were talking about funding and going to the homeowners. We or I shouldn't say we. You and the City also have an outstanding balance still on the a xisting nine. That will probably come up, I do know that we have some homeowners out at Cherry Lane that the lot fees to pay for the new nine that was incorporated, there is still an amount out there. Corrie: We'll have to go back with our finance director to find out all that. Lovan-Holloway: You know coming up with that. That might be an issue that comes up. If you still only have an outstanding amount of money that is owed on this now you are wanting us to do more. So to just throw that out to you. Unidentified speaker: (Inaudible) but talking about this Mr. Bean. He explained to us he (inaudible) they can design a water system but like Tom said you got to tell them what you want. (Inaudible) what we want. Meridian City Council Special Workshop January 27, 2003 Page 23 of 27 Corrie: Okay how many do we want on this committee? You want to have the golf course people come up with so many names and then the city can and we can (inaudible) together and we will have a workable committee. We don't want it to big (inaudible) but I don't want it to be so small well never get anything done either. Grant. Kingsford: (Inaudible) that I would suspect. (Inaudible) but I would suggest that you put it out and encourage (inaudible) for all of our (inaudible). Corrie: Okay. Butler: (Inaudible) we really appreciated working with the parks department and especially Elroy. When we think about Cherry Lane we think about Meridian we don't think about (inaudible). Then we also know (inaudible). Lovan-Holloway: I (inaudible) Elroy not only from the City's point but ours (inaudible) he also from the City's point can tell you. I look at a list and it has a whole bunch of sprinkler heads on it, I can't tell you what that means, that`s not my job I can't tell you what a two inch pipe is and that you need so many pounds of pressure. That's not my area. Elroy from the city's point can come in and look at that and say yeah I understand that because he works in that (inaudible). Corrie: Well then we can do some newspaper ads and see who would like to be on the committee and screen those and we've started tonight. Again I want to emphasize that we want solutions and that's what we are all here for. If we all work togetherwe'll get it done. (Inaudible). So when would you like to meet again to see where we are and what's come in and - get a screening committee together and screen those out. Unidentified Speaker: (Inaudible) Corrie: Any suggestions? Thirty days. I think thirty days is very adequate to get (inaudible). Steele: Are we going to start with a (inaudible) group Cherry Lane and the city and then add more people or is it just going to be (inaudible). Corrie: I think we want to (inaudible) newspaper ads and who would like to help. We can take a certain core out of there. I think this is too big a core to work with that and people (inaudible). You may get 10 people you may get 100 and it's impossible. So if we can set a time that we can meet again and go over those things in 30 days. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Yes. Meridian City Council Special Workshop January 27, 2003 Page 24 of 27 De Weerd: If we could just establish somewhat of a time today and I'm (inaudible) like a member of the parks staff and a member, Tom would be ideal with his knowledge. Ask that Ashford Greens and Lakes at Cherry Lane I don't care what phase but ask that you have a representative from each of those and then fill it in with citizens. Just set your core and then have that brought back to the Mayor and for the Golf Course to look at and we can confirm it if you would like but I don't think we need to all get back together again just to look at who is going to serve on the committee. I would much rather empower the committee to get started and just a skeleton of ideal situations or seats should at least be at the table ask that for this initial meeting as the parks staff if they could to just coordinate it and then at that meeting somebody could be designated Secretary and person in charge of contacting. Lovan-Holloway: And I agree with Tammy on that. I mean its such a big area and its going to take anumber of -its not going to be done over night. You know we need to do the committee smaller. One of the things that from the City that - I would like to request from the City is we will have the city engineers, I assume will be involved in part of this. I would like them from the City Engineers part I would like them to be able to say, if they see something to be able to say you know I see that its not going to work where I think they have had their hands tied in the past and I would like their office to be able to come to the city and come to whoever is on this committee and say you know I see something and its not working. You know from their opinion because that's what we have them for. (Inaudible). Corrie: (Inaudible) Elroy Tom and hopefully Brad. (Inaudible). Is there anybody here that would like to? Kingsford: (Inaudible) I would suggest to that (inaudible). De Weerd: Can I nominate Walt Morrow? For the chair, if we have to designate a chair tonight. You have a great background and knowledge and knowledge of the community. And (inaudible) you work well with committees and you get results. Corrie: (Inaudible). Morrow: (Inaudible). He has all those qualifications to (inaudible) actual construction. De Weerd: Walt has already given a committee before. And I think that is something that the committee would come with a recommendation on, I think there are some first steps and we need to know what the price of that purchasing would be. So I would say that Walt should be (inaudible). They are ideal but they are over burdened (inaudible). And maybe even a parks commission Meridian City Council Special Workshop January 27, 2003 Page 25 of 27 member should be on that but if we could just set the core and get the names when the Mayor gets back we (inaudible). I maybe this Mr. Bean can be at the (inaudible) meeting but I would prefer that out chairman would be there. Lovan-Holloway: A nd M r. C hairman I by n o m eans w as t tying t o p ut Brad or Gary on the spot as far as them being in charge of it again. I just wanted to be able to make sure if they saw something that they can say something where I feel and I probably putting words in my mouth. They were just told to get it through lets go you know and I just want to make sure that they feel comfortable (inaudible). Corrie: Charlie. Roundtree: I would like to see Walt's committee work on the assumptions (inaudible). One of the better quality Golf Course (inaudible). Who's going to fund the evaluation (inaudible)? What is the committee to do? (Inaudible). Butler: (Inaudible) getting the USGA (inaudible) from that perspective we got that based on (inaudible). I agree with (inaudible) we need to - at the same time -its really easy to talk about it (inaudible) and so the committee for the folks that we have named here Walt, Charlie (inaudible). I think we can (inaudible) take a look at the legal aspects and the financial aspects. (Inaudible) so that when a committee (inaudible). Lovan-Holloway: I guess the question is still not answered from Mr. Roundtree, if we m eet w ith t he c ommittee w ho's g oing t o p ick u p f he a d i n t he p aper,who starts this and who pays for it. I guess that's black and white, on the table. Who does that and who is responsible for it? De Weerd: Jennifer I think that the Mayor had mentioned that he would get - I'm sure he can contact the Statesman and the Valley Times and (inaudible) be appropriate to post (inaudible) at the golf course. Lovan-Holloway: One of the things Will does and we can do that do -Will does and (inaudible) bulletin boards also so we can (inaudible). Nary: We can also work through the press sources and things like that - I mean I guess the only thing I'm going to disagree with what Mr. Roundtree said (inaudible) we don't have any idea of what its going to cost. I mean I think from the city's perspective, I think we are very committed to make this a better situation of where we are today. What that's going to cost I don't know. I think that's what the hope is that this committee work is going to tell us. Long term this is what the cost is going to be. Short term this is what the cost is going to be. You know how much of that can Cherry Lane Recreation absorb. How much of that does the City have to (inaudible) and do we have it. We will have to answer Meridian City Council Special Workshop January 27, 2003 Page 26 of 27 all those questions, I agree but I don't think we are not committed to doing those things. I think we just need to know what they are. Link: There are some initial costs it sounds like might be incurred in seeking the advice of some expert people who I guess (inaudible). Butler: (Inaudible) if the city is (inaudible) talk about right here tonight (inaudible). At this point the city could (inaudible). Corrie: And that is going to come down (inaudible) like Charlie said. Walt and Charlie you heard the train go by and smelled the smoke but would you both like to serve on that core committee. De Weerd: (Inaudible). Lovan-Holloway: (Inaudible). Roundtree: (Inaudible). Corrie: Okay well I got Elroy and Tom, Walt and Charlie and then we can meet with the Council and see what (inaudible). That gives you five right there and get back and I'm sure that we can use this room again. And we will get the Council's (inaudible) and I`II get the advertisement papers taken care of. Holloway: (Inaudible). Corrie: You can. Again we are looking for a core right now and then they can (inaudible) let the committee decide how many they want (inaudible) with the Parks and Rec Commission. If you want we can do the -. Nichols: Just a couple of observations. One is if you do that, I think you probably are already thinking that way. One is the holes you want to build. (Inaudible). With regard to Mr. Rountree's point about (inaudible) I don't know if all of you are aware of this but (inaudible) and there were a couple options. There was a half day option or a full day option and the city said lets go with the (inaudible). So just so you know that. That the city had made that commitment and (inaudible). I would also encourage you just because it helps (inaudible). To identify the sequence of things that are happening (inaudible) to the point where things are where you would like to see them. This contact (inaudible) what they include in terms of ideas solutions and goals (inaudible) design options. Study those things a nd s ay (inaudible) w hat h as t o c ome first (inaudible). F rom t he municipal finance side of it. Several factors, you have to look at the LID and I know you can certainly look at that but typically those are infrastructure and (inaudible). Golf Course irrigation system (inaudible). You are sitting in a police building (inaudible). Do you think we will be really interested? Meridian City Council Special Workshop January 27, 2003 Page 27 of 27 Lovan-Holloway: I would also volunteer to - Mr. Bean coming in and talking to everybody on the committee but I would also be willing to contact the other two or three or whoever is on there just to say what is your first initial that they could even give me over the phone a consultation (inaudible). I could at least come up with those numbers to report back so at least those other two or three or whoever's on here. So you would have some knowledge at least to that if that's (inaudible). Corrie: Why don't we do this suggestion, to have Elroy, Walt and Charlie and Jennifer on that core committee. I don't want to get it so cumbersome that I have to repeat myself but I think you people can handle it. So Charlie has good ideas of what we need. How we are going to finance this, who is going to do it and look at that leases and everything else. So if that meets everyone's approval right now. Then we will have those six as a core and then I will get the information back from t his c ore g roup and i n t hirty d ays w e c an h ave a nother meeting here. I'll set that up with the department and get the time and whatever you guys want to do (inaudible). Smith: We have a conference room at the Public Works Department that's a lot smaller then this and its very accessible and you are welcome to use that (inaudible). Lovan-Holloway: And that is another option too if the meeting is something else when the meeting is scheduled we can meet out at the golf course. So we have that (inaudible). Corrie: Anything else? Butler: I know that there is a sign up sheet moving around (inaudible). Corrie: Okay we can get that to everybody. Anything else. Thank you everybody for being here tonight and I think we got a good start. (TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) APP f ~ ~ ~ ~ ®3 OB RT D. CO`RFj~~,~,I~A~YOR DATE \.~~`y O~ ~Rr %,,~ ,~~~ ~'~ ~iSTED: ~ ` ~' ~~~o~~rFO ~ WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., IT CLERK SEAL ~ .~` ., ~ •,