HomeMy WebLinkAboutMeridian Manor No. 3
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MEMORAb'DL?:
To: Honorable Mayor and Council Members
From: Gary D. Smith, P.E., City Engineer
Re: Meridian Manor No.3 Subdivision-Surface Water Drainage
Date: April 7, 1986
The following comments are a chronological compilation of events beginning
in February of this year, that I have record of, concerning the subject item.
In early February Mr. Jon Thompson, 459 Cranmer,Meridian Manor No.3, called
me and subsequently came in to talk about some water that was standing in the
crawl space of his house. At his request I went to his home to observe the water
and the general area. I suggested he contact his builder to discuss the problem,
which I understand he subsequently did. There were several meetings and conver-
sations after this initial contact involving various people including Ben Wenick
(Benco), builder of the house, Mr. Thompson, myself, and Bob Mitich, our building
inspector.
On the 19th of February Mr. Jim Kimball, 602 Willowbrook Drive, called me to
report he had 3 inches of water in his crawl space and wanted to know who is re-
sponsible for getting rid of it. He advised me that several other residents in
the subdivision also had water in their crawl spaces.
On the 25th of February Mr. Steve Brown of Ellis-Brown-Shields & Steele
Attorneys in Boise called to say he had been asked by two people in Meridian
Manor Subdivision to look into the situation of the water in their crawl spaces.
Mr. Brown was interested in reviewing the city files for this subdivision to
follow the review and approval process. He asked what regulations existed con-
cerning the groundwater level, [he dates of the subdivision development, and
if we had a building department. I told him the City Clerk was the official
keeper of the City records and he would need to talk to him about reviewing the
files. I answered his other questions and said our clerk would call him when he
returned to the office.
Page
Meridian Manor ?Go.3 Subdivision-Surface Water Drainage
April 7, 1986
On February 27, a group of homeowners headed by Mr. Kimball and Mr. Thompson
met in the City Council Chambers with Mayor Kingsford in attendance. The situation
of water in the crawl space of a number of homes was discussed. A committee of
homeowners, consisting of Jon Thompson, Jim Kimball, and Ray Fischer, had made an
inventory of most of the homes to see whether or not water was in the crawl space
and if so how much was there. I was not in attendance at this meeting and there-
fore, cannot comment on the proceedings thereof.
On March 3, I made a brief report to the Mayor and Council on what events had
occurred to date.
On March 4, I met with Ray Fischer and Jon Thompson at Mr. Fischer's home
to review their inventory list of the homes they surveyed and the results of the
survey. I also observed the water in Mr. Thompson's and Mr. Fischer's crawl spaces
to be 3z inches and 7z inches respectively. The inventory prepared by the committee
lists varying amounts of water, from 1 inch to 8 inches, to dry. In all, 42 homes
were surveyed by the committee. (A result of this survey is attached for your re-
view.) I plotted the survey results on a plat map of the subdivision to see if
there was any correllation between amounts of water and the homes geographic 1o-
cation. There doesn't appear to be any correllation.
On March 17, I made in interum report to the Mayor and Council on the events
that had occurred to date and what my opinions were as of that time.
On Tuesday, March 18, I made a field survey of 36 of the homes shown on the
committees' inventory. My survey included a hand-level evaluation of the height
of finished floor above the street curb; a visual inspection of the amount of yard
slope away from each house; how much, if any, of the roof had rain gutter; and
whether or not splash blocks were installed at each down spout. Of the 36 homes
surveyed, only 3 have a finished floor set lower than the Lot Grading Map showed
and 3 have a finished floor elevation set near the maps requirement. All the
others have floor elevations set higher than the Lot Grading Map requirements.
Page 3
Meridian Manor No.3 Subdivision-Surface Water Drainage
April 7, 1986
The major deficiencies I noticed during this survey were lack of adequate back-
yard slope away from the house and lack of backside roof rain gutter.
There does appear to be a correlation between the amount or lack of water
in the crawl spaces to the slope of the lot grading and the presence of roof rain
gutter. The presence of good grading and rain gutter doesn't preclude the water
in the crawl space, but in most all cases it certainly reduces it. The homes
reported as "dry", "muddy", or "puddles" generally have a good slope and rain
gutters, or at least rain gutters.
Mike Preston, of J-U-B Engineers, volunteered to become involved in helping
to determine what could be done to mitigate the water problem in the crawl spaces.
On March 20, I met Mike at City Hall and then drove to Ray Fischer's home to in-
vestigate constructing a drain pit alongside its southwest corner. During this
same time period, contractor Bill Davis, was involved in constructing 2 drain pits
at a home he had just finished at the east end of Willowbrook Drive (lot 1, block
10). Mike Preston and I drove to the Davis home to observe the installation of
the pit and also found that contractor Ben Wenick (Benco) was going to install a
drain pit at the house he was finishing on lot 4, block 10. While we were in this
area we noted quite a bit of standing water on lot 19, block 4 (at the corner of
Longford and Willowbrook Drive). We asked Bill Davis, and he readily agreed, to
let us use his backhoe and operator to dig a drain hole on lot 19 approximately
3 feet horizontally from the ponded water. The hole was dug approximately 5 feet
deep and ground water was found at about 42 inches. (This substantiated to us that
the water we are dealing with in the crawl spaces is surface water and not ground-
water.) The excavation went through about 24 inches of a silty-clay material and
then exposed a dirty sand and gravel. No hard-pan or caliche layer was encountered.
A trench was then dug from the ponded water to the excavated hole and the hole was
filled to within a couple of inches of the ground surface. The trench was then
filled to block the flow into the hole, and the water level in the hole was moni-
tered. The water was measured to percolate 4 inches in 30 minutes into the dirty
sand and gravel. We now felt more comfortable than ever that a drain pit would
Page
Meridian Manor No.3 Subdivision-Surface Water Drainage
April 7, 1986
convey any water in the crawl space into the subsurface gravel strata. Also,
it is now evident that the top strata of ground in this area has enough of a
clay content that once saturated it acts as a barrier to prevent any further
transmission of moisture. The clayey material retains tha moisture well and
it is slow to dry, unless exposed to sun and wind. Our conversations with
builders of homes in this area reveal that the bottom of the footings of their
houses were constructed at a depth of about 6 inches into the natural ground
surface. Therefore, once surface water has found its way into the crawl space
area, it is difficult for it to leave. Mike Preston and I returned to Ray
Fischer's house and Mike decided, because of the amount of digging involved,
to hire a small backhoe. The particular machine and operator was not available
until the following morning so the decision was made to return then.
On the evening of March 20 at 6:30 p.m., I met at Jim Kimball's home with
several members of the homeowners committee. Included in this meeting were
Jon Thompson, Ray Fischer and wife, Cary Hooper, Jim Kimball, and Ray Amoreaux.
I related to the committee what we had found that particular day and what we
were doing at Ray Fischer's home. Mr. Kimball discussed many aspects of the
situation and stated he has requested to be on the City Council aggenda for
April 7 and has contacted Channel 7 television to also be there. I expressed
my concern to the committee that all the publicity was creating an adverse impact
to many people in many different ways. Mr. Kimball talked about warped floors
in 2 year old homes, about garages separating from the houses, about cracks in
wallboard and plaster areas, about contacting the Idaho Attorney General for
State violations, about contacting Senator Craig's office for Federal violations,
and other things. Cary Hooper expressed his concerns about the direction the
committee was headed and stated he was withdrawing from the committee. I left
the committee meeting at about 7:45 p.m. because of another engagement.
The morning of March 21, I arrived at Ray Fischer's house to find Mike
Preston and backhoe with operator digging the drain pit. They were pumping
the water running out from under Fischer house to the street for drainage away.
The street curb and gutter carried the water in good fashion to the storm drain
inlet near the north end of the subdivision. The hole. was dug to a depth of
Page 5
Meridian Manor No.3 Subdivision-Surface Water Drainage
April 7, 1986
about 6 feet and backfilled with clean drain rock. The drain rock was brought
up to a level about 6 inches below the bottom of the footing. At this level,
a 4 foot length of perforated PVC pipe was installed horizontally under the footing
into the crawl space area. The end of the pipe was covered with a wire screen
material to prevent intrusion of any objects that could cause the drain pit to
plug up. The backfill was completed with red rosin paper being installed on
top of the drain rock. A vertical PVC stand pips was installed in the pit,
adjacent to the footings so the ground water level in the pit could be monitored.
This operation was completed slightly before noon.
On March 26, I investigated the depth of the groundwater in the open ex-
cavation areas in Meridian Manor No.4 Subdivision. The depth to groundwater from
the natural ground ranged from 3 to 3~ feet. I stopped at Ray Ficsher's house
and measured the water level in the standpipe at 4 feet below ground level. I
stopped and talked to Bill Davis at a home he was constructing on N.W. 8th St.
to see what the status was of the crawl space under his house at the east end
of Willowbrook Drive. Mr. Davis reported that 2 days ago he was under the house
to check and found no new water and also found the ground surface starting to
crust over. As soon as it wa; dry he was going to install the visquten ground
cover. He indicated a willingness to install the drain pit(s) in the homes he
has built, to date, that have water in the crawl space.
It is my opinion, along with others, that we are dealing with surface water
that has entered the crawl space area for a combination of several reasons. The
reasons include, but are not limited to: lack of rain gutter, lack of adequate
downspouts with splash blocks, lack of adequate ground slope away from the house
proper.
We feel quite confident that drain pit(s) installed at each home, with
water in the crawl space, will mitigate the water problem. Some grading work
in the homes crawl space may be necessary to assure drainage of any water to the
drain pit area.
• Page 6
Meridian Manor Ivo.3 Subdivision-Surface Later Drainage
April i, 1986
I would like to thank those people who have helped to investigate this
situation namely Mike Preston, Bill Davis, Ben Wenick, Jon Thompson, Ray Ficsher,
and Ed Bews. These people, along with yourselves, are truly interested and committed
to resolve the situation.
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NOTE
Ground Water is Approximately
4~- 4~' Below Existing Ground.
Clean Gravel is at Least 6' Below
Ground. Each Sump Only Needs to
be the Width of a Back Hoe Bucket.
Recomend at Least 2 Sumps Per
Home. If Crawl Space has Standing
Wafer, Pump
BaCkfilling.
From Sump Before
Backfill Wifh
Topsoil -~
Existing Ground
in Yard ~
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6
\ Separate Backfill
With Rosin Paper
Hand Tunnel
Original Ground -~ 1 ~ "•" ~ Under Footing
Clayey Silf J ~
1 Approx. Ground 4" PVC or DWV Pipe
Water ~ Screen Inlet
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~ Initial Gravel 1 ~, 2"+ Drain ~ NOTE:
(Dirty) ~ 1 Rock ~ Owners Should Dig Smal I
~ _~ . ~ Ditches To Sump in Crawl
Clean Sand & Gravel -z.. Space To Enhance Drainage.
RECOMMENDED DRAINAGE SUMPS
FOR CRAWL SPACE DRAINAGE
NOTE
Ground Water is Approximately
4'- 4Z' Below Existing Ground.
Clean Gravel is of Least 6' Below
Ground. Each Sump Only Needs to
be the Width of a Back Hoe Bucket.
Recomend at Least 2 Sumps Per
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Backfilling.
Backfill Wifh
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Hand Tunnel
Original Ground ~ •:.~; ~ Under Footing
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Water ~ Screen Inlet
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Initial Grovel 1 ~, 2"+ Drain ~ NOTE
(Dirty) ~ ` Rock ~ ~ Owners Should Diq Sn-al I
~ _ _ . ~ Ditches To Sump in Crawl
~-Clean Sand a Gravel Z,. Space To Enhance Drainops.
RECOMMENDED DRAINAGE SUMPS
FOR CRAWL SPACE DRAINAGE
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MERIDIAN CITI' COUNCIL • •
APRIL 7, 1986
PAGE # 3
Item #5: Homeowners from Meridian Manor:
Jon Thompson, 459 Cranmere was present to ask some questions of
the Council regarding the water in the crawl spaces of some of the
homes located in Meridian Manor #3, Thompson, some pipe was put
in Mr. Fischers yard and into the crawl space does anyone know the
results of that?
City Engineer, I have not been under the house or talk to Mr. Fischer
about the water level. I did go by and measure the stand pipe and it
was four feet to water.
Mr. Fischer advised it was still muddy under his house but the water
had disappeared.
Thompson would it not be better to lay perferated pipe around the
foundation rather than digging trenches in your crawl space?
City Engineer, I suppose this would pickup the water before it got
to the crawl space.
Thompson, who is going to be responsible for repairing this problem?
Mayor Kingsford, pursuant to our earlier meeting, I offered the services
of the City Engineer and I think he spent quite a lot of time out there
if you are interested in remedying the problem, I think we have worked
with you on that, if you are looking for liability, Z don't think you
are going to see us assume liability, I don't think we have been in
error, if you want to try to work with us we will try to remedy that.
Thompson, you think that the homeowner should be responsible for a
problem that they bought into and did not know anything about?
Mayor Kingsford, I certainly take care of my house, it's my assumption
that if no one was in error that you need to take care of your own
house.
Thompson, why was construction allowed to continue when the problem
was reported three years ago by Mr. Fischer?
Mayor Kingsford, do you have any questions that are new at all from
when we discussed it I answered that in a meeting with basically
the same group, the Council was not informed of that.
Thompson, if the lots were meant to meet a drainage requirement, why
were the requirements not met, if it is indeed surface water that we
are dealing with?
-Mayor Kingsford, as far as I know the requirements were met. I have
no idea what those are, Mr. Smith can you speak to that?
Smith, of the 36 homes I surveyed, only 3 of those homes have a fine.:..;
fished floor set lower than the lot grading map showed and 3 have a
finished floor elevation set near the map requirments,all others are
set higher than the lot grading map requirements.
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL •
APRIL 7, 1986
PAGE # 4
Thompson, since these drainage requirements were not met, what do we
do now?
Mayor Kingsford, if they were not met and were supposed to be, I
assume that would be something to take up with your builder.
Thompson, since there has been a problem what are the plans for
Meridian Manor 4 & 5 to cure the problem and if Meridian Manor #4
& #5 do have a problem who will be responsible for the repairs to
those homes?
Mayor Kingsford, the plat is in process, they have been approved
and there is development taking place there, if they are built to
standards, I would assume they will be built to standards, if they
violate those then that would be an obligation of the builder or
the developer.
Thompson, basically we have a problem out there and we would like it
taken care of, Mr. Smith has been out a few times and he has worked
with us and I have no problems with that but it seems like it is
taking longer than it should, I would like to see some results,
if this is the cure by putting the drainage pipes in the ground
who is going to be responsible for getting this all taken care of
and getting this done, will this be the builders?
Mayor Kingsford, I certainly could not speak to that.
Gary Smith, have you talked to your builder?
Thompson, not lately.
Smith, when you first brought the problem in, that is what I suggested
that you talk to your builder and to me the builder and the person who
bought the home should be able to work the problem out. I think most
of the builders are willing to work with the people. I take exception
to the point you brought out that it is taking so long, I think it
has been about a month and in that length of time quite a bit has
happened, and I think all the people involved in that subdivision
are willing to work with the people who live in that subdivision to
resolve the problem as long as the people who live in the subdivision
are willing to work with those people.
Zane Smith, I am in the process of purchasing a house in Meridian
Manor and this problem was bought to my attention by the Committee
and I found in looking into it no basis for bringing before the
City Council, the State, County or any other organization. I do have
a signed statement here by twenty homeowners stating we do not feel
there is a water problem in Meridian Manor area nor do we believe that
--qur property values are affected by it, I am not representing them, I
~ am only representing myself but I do agree with you Mayor that when
' ire buy our homes we are responsible for them and I do agree with Mr.
Sm~h, I talked with the builders involved in the area and they are
all willing to work with the homeowners. (COPY OF THIS STATEMENT ON
FILE WITH THESE MINUTES AT CITY HALL)
Mayor Kingsford, is there anyone else from Meridian Manor who wishes
to make comments?
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL •
APRIL 7, 1986
PAGE ~ 5
•
There were no other comments by the homeowners in Meridian Manor.
Mike Preston, JUB Engineers, I was working with Mr. Smith on this and
I do have a drawing,we wanted to determine if this was a ground water
problem, so we worked on one specific house and while we were out there
a couple of other homes were fixed very simply and we determined
absolutly as Mr. Smith has already reported that it was not a ground
water problem just a surface problem because of the soil, Mr. Preston
showed the drawing to the Council (ON FILE WITH THESE MINUTES) this
will work very simply that the homeowners could work with their builders
or however to resolve the problem
Mayor Kingsford, Mr. Smith has prepared a summary of what has taken
place out there for myself and the Council and any of the homeowners
are welcome to a copy of this. (COPY OF THIS SUMMARY ON FILE WITH
THESE MINUTES AT CITY HALL)
Department Reports:
Gary Smith, City Engineer reported on the progress on Cherry Lane Road.
City Attorney, Wayne Crookston, Bill Nary will be attending a Drunk
Driving Seminar in April and I would appreciate the Mayor & Council
approving $180.75 for Mr. Nary to attend this Seminar, I believe this
will be very helpful to Mr. Nary as City Prosecutor.
The Motion was made by Tolsma and seconded by Giesler to approve of
this expenditure.
Motion Carried: All Yea:
Being no further business to come before the Council the Motion was
made by Myers and seconded by Tolsma to adjourn at 8:05 p.m.:
Motion Carried: All Yea:
TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS:
APPROVED:
ATTEST:
GRANT KINGSFORD, MAYOR
Jack Niemann, City Clerk
pc: Mayor & Council
~ P&Z Members ACHD,NIMD,ACC,
`''Police, Fire, Atty, CDH, ACZ,
Eng, Stuart, Ward
Mitich, Keibert, Hallett File (3)
Valley News, Statesman Mail (2)
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We the undersigned homeowners own property in the subdivision known as
Meridian Manor, located in the city of Meridian, Idaho. We do not believe this
subdivision has a water problem any greater than any other subdivision in the
Meridian area. Our concern is based upon recent rumors and accusations to the
city government and public media that our property is not as valuable as any
other property in the community due to the high water level for which Meridian
and the surrounding area is well known for. We do not support the committee
or any movement that purposes the above, and would appreciate the support of
our local and state government and their agencies in our beliefs.
C
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NOT E
Ground Water is Approximately
4'- 42 ~ Below Exis ting Ground.
Clean Gravel is at Least 6' Below
Ground. Each Sump Only Needs to
be the Width of a Back Hoe Bucket.
Recomend at Least 2 Sumps Per
Home. If Crawl Spa ce has Standing
Water, Pump From Sump Before
Backfilling.
Backfill With
Topsoil
Existing Ground
in Yard
D' -
\ Separate Backfill
With Rosin Paper
~S F i I I z-
Hand Tunnel
Original Ground ~ ~ Under Footing
;...
Clayey Silt ~ 1 Approx. Ground ~ 4" PVC or DWV Pipe
Water ~ ~ Screen Inlet
/~ ~~ ~
llnifial Gravel 1 ~2+Orain ~ NOTE
(Dirty) ~ ` Rock ~ ~ Owners Should Dig Small
r ~ ____ _ ~ / Ditches To Sump in Crawl
Clean Sand a Gravel z, Space To Enhance Drainage.
RECOMMENDED DRAINAGE SUMPS
FOR CRAWL SPACE DRAINAGE
•
MEMORANDU"".
To: Honorable Mayor and Council Members
From: Gary D. Smith, P.E., City Engineer
Re: Meridian Manor No.3 Subdivision-Surface Water Drainage
Date: April 7, 1986
The following comments are a chronological compilation of events beginning
in February of this year, that I have record of, concerning the subject item.
In early February Mr. Jon Thompson, 459 Cranmer,Meridian Manor No.3, called
me and subsequently came in to talk about some water that was standing in the
crawl space of his house. At his request I went to his home to observe the water
and the general area. I suggested he contact his builder to discuss the problem,
which I understand he subsequently did. There were several meetings and conver-
sations after this initial contact involving various people including Ben Wenick
(Benco), builder of the house, Mr. Thompson, myself, and Bob Mitich, our building
inspector.
On the 19th of February Mr. Jim Kimball, 602 Willowbrook Drive, called me to
report he had 3 inches of water in his crawl space and wanted to know who is re-
sponsible for getting rid of it. He advised me that several other residents in
the subdivision also had water in their crawl spaces.
On the 25th of February Mr. Steve Brown of Ellis-Brown-Shields & Steele
Attorneys in Boise called to say he had been asked by two people in Meridian
Manor Subdivision to look into the situation of the water in their crawl spaces.
Mr. Brown was interested in reviewing the city files for this subdivision to
follow the review and approval process. He asked what regulations existed con-
cerning the groundwater level, the dates of the subdivision development, and
if we had a building department. I told him the City Clerk was the official
keeper of the City records and he would need to talk to him about reviewing the
files. I answered his other questions and said our clerk would call him when he
returned to the office.
Page 2
Meridian Manor No.3 Subdivision-Surface Water Drainage
April 7, 1986
On February 27, a group of homeowners headed by Mr. Kimball and Mr. Thompson
met in the City Council Chambers with Mayor Kingsford in attendance. The situation
of water in the crawl space of a number of homes was discussed. A committee of
homeowners, consisting of Jon Thompson, Jim Kimball, and Ray Fischer, had made an
inventory of most of the homes to see whether or not water was in the crawl space
and if so how much was there. I was not in attendance at this meeting and there-
fore, cannot comment on the proceedings thereof.
On March 3, I made a brief report to the Mayor and Council on what events had
occurred to date.
On March 4, I met with Ray Fischer and Jon Thompson at Mr. Fischer's home
to review their inventory list of the homes they surveyed and the results of the
survey. I also observed the water in Mr. Thompson's and Mr. Fischer's crawl spaces
to be 3~ inches and 7'~ inches respectively. The inventory prepared by the committee
lists varying amounts of water, from 1 inch to 8 inches, to dry. In all, 42 homes
were surveyed by the committee. (A result of this survey is attached for your re-
view.) I plotted the survey results on a plat map of the subdivision to see if
there was any correllation between amounts of water and the homes geographic lo-
cation. There doesn't appear to be any correllation.
On March 17, I made in interum report to the Mayor and Council on the events
that had occurred to date and what my opinions were as of that time.
On Tuesday, March 18, I made afield survey of 36 of the homes shown on the
committees' inventory. My survey included a hand-level evaluation of the height
of finished floor above the street curb; a visual inspection of the amount of yard
slope away from each house; how much, if any, of the roof had rain gutter; and
whether or not splash blocks were installed at each down spout. Of the 36 homes
surveyed, only 3 have a finished floor set lower than the Lot Grading Map showed
and 3 have a finished floor elevation set near the maps requirement. All the
others have floor elevations set higher than the Lot Grading Map requirements.
Page 3
Meridian Manor No.3 Subdivision-Surface Water Drainage
April 7, 1986
The major deficiencies I noticed during this survey were lack of adequate back-
yard slope away from the house and lack of backside roof rain gutter.
There does appear to be a correlation between the amount or lack of water
in the crawl spaces to the slope of the lot grading and the presence of roof rain
gutter. The presence of good grading and rain gutter doesn't preclude the water
in the crawl space, but in most all cases it certainly reduces it. The homes
reported as "dry", "muddy", or "puddles" generally have a good slope and rain
gutters, or at least rain gutters.
Mike Preston, of J-U-B Engineers, volunteered to become involved in helping
to determine what could be done to mitigate the water problem in the crawl spaces.
On March 20, I met Mike at City Aall and then drove to Ray Fischer's home to in-
vestigate constructing a drain pit alongside its southwest corner. During this
same time period, contractor Bill Davis, was involved in constructing 2 drain pits
at a home he had just finished at the east end of Willowbrook Drive (lot 1, block
10). Mike Preston and I drove to the Davis home to observe the installation of
the pit and also found that contractor Ben Wenick (Benco) was going to install a
drain pit at the house he was finishing on lot 4, block 10. While we were in this
area we noted quite a bit of standing water on lot 19, block 4 (at the corner of
Longford and Willowbrook Drive). We asked Bill Davis, and he readily agreed, to
let us use his backhoe and operator to dig a drain hole on lot 19 approximately
3 feet horizontally from the ponded water. The hole was dug approximately 5 feet
deep and ground water was found at about 42 inches. (This substantiated to us that
the water we are dealing with in the crawl spaces is surface water and not ground-
water.) The excavation went through about 24 inches of a silty-clay material and
then exposed a dirty sand and gravel. No hard-pan or caliche layer was encountered.
A trench was then dug from the ponded water to the excavated hole and the hole was
filled to within a couple of inches of the ground surface. The trench was then
filled to block the flow into the hole, and the water level in the hole was moni-
tered. The water was measured to percolate 4 inches in 30 minutes into the dirty
sand and gravel. We now felt more comfortable than ever that a drain pit would
C`
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Page 4
Meridian Manor No.3 Subdivision-Surface Water Drainage
April 7, 1986
convey any water in the crawl space into the subsurface gravel strata. Also,
it is now evident that the top strata of ground in this area has enough of a
clay content that once saturated it acts as a barrier to prevent any further
transmission of moisture. The clayey material retains tha moisture well and
it is slaw to dry, unless exposed to sun and wind. Our conversations with
builders of homes in this area reveal that the bottom of the footings of their
houses were constructed at a depth of about 6 inches into the natural ground
surface. Therefore, once surface water has found its way into the crawl space
area, it is difficult for it to leave. Mike Preston and I returned to Ray
Fischer's house and Mike decided, because of the amount of digging involved,
to hire a small backhoe. The particular machine and operator was not available
until the following morning so the decision was made to return then.
On the evening of March 20 at 6:30 p.m., I met at Jim Kimball's home with
several members of the homeowners committee. Included in this meeting were
Jon Thompson, Ray Fischer and wife, Cary Hooper, Jim Kimball, and Ray Amoreaux.
I related to the committee what we had found that particular day and what we
were doing at Ray Fischer's home. Mr. Kimball discussed many aspects of the
situation and stated he has requested to be on the City Council aggenda for
April J and has contacted Channel 7 television to also be there. I expressed
my concern to the committee that all the publicity was creating an adverse impact
to many people in many different ways. Mr. Kimball talked about warped floors
in 2 year old homes, about garages separating from the houses, about cracks in
wallboard and plaster areas, about contacting the Idaho Attorney General for
State violations, about contacting Senator Craig's office for Federal violations,
and other things. Cary Hooper expressed his concerns about the direction the
committee was headed and stated he was withdrawing from the committee. I left
the committee meeting at about 7:45 p.m. because of another engagement.
The morning of March 21, I arrived at Ray Fischer's house to find Mike
Preston and backhoe with operator digging the drain pit. They were pumping
the water running out from under Fischer house to the street for drainage away.
The street curb and gutter carried the water in good fashion to the storm drain
inlet near the north end of the subdivision. The hole. was dug to a depth of
Page 7
Meridian Manor No.3 Subdivision-Surface Water Drainage
April 7, 1986
about 6 feet and backfilled with clean drain rock. The drain rock was brought
up to a level about 6 inches below the bottom of the footing. At this level,
a 4 foot length of perforated PVC pipe was installed horizontally under the footing
into the crawl space area. The end of the pipe was covered with a wire screen
material to prevent intrusion of any objects that could cause the drain pit to
plug up. The backfill was completed with red rosin paper being installed on
top of the drain rock. A vertical PVC stand pipg was installed in the pit,
adjacent to the footing, so the ground water level in the pit could be monitored.
This operation was completed slightly before noon.
On March 26, I investigated the depth of the groundwater in the open ex-
cavation areas in Meridian Manor No.4 Subdivision. The depth to groundwater from
the natural ground ranged from 3 to 3'~ feet. I stopped at Ray Ficsher's house
and measured the water level in the standpipe at 4 feet below ground level. I
stopped and talked to Bill Davis at a home he was constructing on N.W. 8th St.
to see what the status was of the crawl space under his house at the east end
of Willowbrook Drive. Mr. Davis reported that 2 days ago he was under the house
to check and found no new water and also found the ground surface starting to
crust over. As soon as it wa; dry he was going to install the visquien ground
cover. He indicated a willingness to install the drain pit(s) in the homes he
has built, to date, that have water in the crawl space.
It is my opinion, along with others, that we are dealing with surface water
that has entered the crawl space area for a combination of several reasons. The
reasons include, but are not limited to: lack of rain gutter, lack of adequate
downspouts with splash blocks, lack of adequate ground slope away from the house
proper.
We feel quite confident that drain pit(s) installed at each home, with
water in the crawl space, will mitigate the water problem. Some grading work
in the homes crawl space may be necessary to assure drainage of any water to the
drain pit area.
Page 6
Meridian Manor No.3 Subdivision-Surface 6later Lrainage
April 7, 1986
I would like to thank those people who have helped to investigate this
situation namely .Mike Preston, Bill Davis, Ben Wenick, Jon Thompson, Ray Ficsher,
and Ed Bews. These people, along with yourselves, are truly interested and committed
to resolve the situation.
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MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL , •
MARCH 17, 1986
PAGE # 4
the request by Western Recycling to place a can collection unit at
Smiths Food King with the stipulation that the area be kept properly
policed and maintained on a daily basis:
Motion Carried: All Yea:
Department Reports:
Gary Smith, City Engineer, to update the Council on the problem at
Meridian Manor #3, I met with Mr. Thompson and Mr. Fischer two weeks
ago tomorrow, we reviewed at the time the inventory of the ,houses
in the subdivision that had water problems under their house. We dis-
cussed at that time how this problem may have occurred and I told
them I would be getting back to them as soon as I could get some infor-
ation put together. I met with Mr. Thompson last Thursday and I related
to him a few of my opinions, nothing of any concrete nature and I dis-
cussed with him the ditch that runs along the South side of the property
which in his case is right behind his home, the status of that ditch
and what if anything might happen to it in the future, we also discussed
the lot grading map that was prepared by the design engineer for the
subdivision, that was subsquently submitted and approved by FHA & VA
and the relationship with several of the houses with the elevations
shown on that lot grading map. At that meeting I was asked to see if
I could find out what the ground water level was at the time the sub-
division was designed. I did make some phone calls one to the design
engineer and one to FHA and was not able to find out anything from
either one, they did not have any record. I think from my observations
to date, plus the excavation work that is going on at the North side
of the subdivision, it is my opinion that we have kind of a combination
of events that has caused the problem, one is according to the Weather
Bureau this is the wettest year in seventy years, we also have in that
area and other areas a hardpan layer beneath the surface of the ground
and it varies in depth from 30 inches to in some place 18 inches, I
think it is a combination of the fact we have a hardpan layer down there
the fact that the soil above the hardpan layer contain enough clay to
make the soil semi-impregnable to movement of water through it and the
fact that some of the houses may not have been built to an elevation
in relation to the approved grading map. I believe the fact that the
footing which all set on or above the hardpan layer preclude the water
from going down. The impregnable of the soil prevents the water from
traveling horizontally to an area where it could get down, so cons-
quently once the ground is saturated there is just one place for the
water to go and that is up. I also think if the water can get away from
the house it would help, one way would be to provide rain gutters on
the house to direct the water away from the house, the dther is to have
the slope of the ground drop at least six inches in the first ten feet
from the foundation. It may be some of the homes will need to have some
water gathering trenches around them to facilitate getting the water
away from the house. Starting tomorrow morning I am going to go out
and check the elevation of the floor level above the curb and gutter
in the street, I am also going to check for rain gutter and check the
ground around the house just for general grading purposes. One other
thing I have considered due to the fact we do have a hardpan layer
if a hole was punched through the layer it would help relieve the
water that was in the soil, my only concern with this is what effect
.MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL • •
MARCH 17, 1986
PAGE # 5
it might have on the ground water under the hardpan layer.
Myers, you mean the ground water might come back up through?
Smith, Yes, incidently I had a visit from a couple that lives in
Park Estates which is off Ustick Road about 3/4 mile east of Clover-
dale and they have had for five years they have lived there a water
problem under their house and havehad everybody out there to look
at it they could think of to call, as yet they have found no answer
to this problem, I have not spoken to Mr. Thompson or Mr. Fischer
as yet but one thing I am going to propose is that we pump out the
crawl space under their homes to get rid of the water and see what
happens then. This is where I am now.
Mayor Kingsford, I might say that since the article in the newspaper
I have had at least twenty people call me from around the Valley and
advise me if we find a solution to this they would be interested in
knowing to, so it is not a problem that is exclusive to us but we'
certaining need to deal with it. Mr. Smith keep us posted on this.
Being no further business to come before the Council the Motion was
made by Myers and seconded by Tolsma to adjourn at u:20 p.m.:
Motion Carried: All Yea:
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
APPROVED:
GRANT KINGSFORD, MAYOR
S2ity
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