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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2009 01-12 SpecialMeridian City Council Meeting Joint Meeting January 12, 2009 The Meridian City Council Joint meeting was called to order at 12:00 P.M. on Monday, January 12, 2009 by Mayor Tammy de Weerd. Roll Call Attendance: City of Meridian: X David Zaremba X Brad Hoaglun X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird X Mayor Tammy de Weerd ACHD: X John Franden X Sheny Huber X Brad Hoaglun X Rebecca Amold Sara Baker X Carol McKee, President De Weerd: Okay. Shall we go ahead and get started? Well, welcome to the new City Hall. I think most of you have all been here and we appreciate you coming to our neck of the woods for this meeting. McKee: This is lovely and we'd like to introduce our brand new commissioner, Mrs. Sara Baker. De Weerd: Hi, Sara. Welcome. Zaremba: Welcome. McKee: I'm sure you -- everybody knows Sara, but -- and that's okay, we do that in this all the time. Zaremba: Uh-huh. Baker: Well, I'm glad to be here and I'm glad to see Dave. I met him. Talked with Tammy. Know Bill Nary. And I guess Brad Hoaglun is not here, but he used to work for the city, so sort of old home week. Not totally. De Weerd: Yeah. Well, good. Well, we appreciate you being here and do we need to do roll? I think Susan and Jaycee, just go ahead and do it for the record. Correct? Item I: Presentation on HUB Project on the Northeast Corner of Broadway and East 2oa Street De Weerd: Thank you. And we have all but one of the commission member, Commissioner Franden is not with us. Okay. Item No. 1 is presentation on the HUB Meridian City Council - ACHD Commissioners Joint Meeting January 12, 2009 Page 2 of 24 and we are going to move that down below three by the request of the administrator for MDC. Item II: Discussion on Meridian Speed Limits De Weerd: So, we will start with Item No. 2, which is the discussion of the Meridian Speed Limits and, Bill, are you doing that? Nary: I guess so. I have speed limit maps and they are all being shown up there, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Commissioners. I can pass these around, so it might be a little easier for you to see. Should be enough for everyone. What this item is is we have had adiscussion -- we have -- for those of you who may or may not be familiar, we have a Meridian Traffic Safety Commission. One of the members of that commission is an ACRD representative John Wasson is the person that represents ACHD at those meetings. We have had a discussion for the last two meetings -- we meet monthly -- on speed limits and what was prompted -- what prompted that discussion was a request by the City Council that the commission look at the current speed limits on both the north and south roads, as well as the east and west roads, and, then, try to bring a recommendation back to the City Council in regards to some consistency of speeds. And as you can see on the map, the speed limits vary -- sometimes they vary for a good reason and sometimes they vary for reasons that may or may not be current today and so that was the nature of our discussion. The Council has heard the recommendations from the commission for the east-west roads and the Council did have recommendations that have been communicated back to Mr. Wasson, but we wanted to bring that out for the commissioners as well. I will try to go through them fairly quickly. I know you have a lengthy agenda. On the -- on the major arterials through the city, McMillan, they had no recommendation. As you can see, McMillan is almost one consistent speed through most of the city. It's approximately 40 miles an hour from Eagle to about a half a mile between Ten Mile and Black Cat. Based on the level of use at this particular time that seemed appropriate. Now, I have all the maps up here and there have been a couple of revisions, so if your map has a change in it, that may have been revised since, but the most current one, that's what it shows. On the Ustick, we also -- the commission had no recommendation, again, on changes. Some of the speed limit changes there were driven by developments that are along it. Fairview and Cherry there has been a discussion. Currently Cherry -- or Fairview in the area approximately where Fred Meyer is and B&D supply on Fairview, the speed limit changes in that area to 35 miles an hour from 45 -- or, yeah, 40 miles an hour, excuse me, and I think ACHD is currently in the process of reevaluating that and moving that 40 miles -- or that 35 miles an hour further to the east, as far as probably Hickory, because, again, the level of development has increased in that area and, then, some of it's waiting for Pinebridge and that development. The commission was supportive of that, as was the Council. Pine Street, there has been a discussion there. There is a walk zone there for schools. Right now the 25 mile an hour zone is very close to Meridian Elementary and very close to Meridian Middle School. The Council 's recommendation was -- is to consider moving the flashers for the school zone closer to the intersection of 8th Street and Pine Street, because of the walking in both directions for kids, both to Meridian City Council -ACRD Commissioners Joint Meeting January 12, 2009 Page 3 of 24 elementary and middle school, and so I think that was the proposal that we were asking ACHD to consider. Not to move the 25 mile an hour zone all the way to that intersection, because off hours from the school it was not quite as vital that it be 25 miles an hour all the time. On Franklin there was a request to move it all from 40 -- currently it's 40 from about where Touchmark is located, where the RC Willey, Ashley Furniture, Meadow Lake Village area is and, then, it becomes 35 right towards Main Street and, then, it takes 35 all the way to Linder. The road is a five lane roadway. There is not a tremendous amount of development that fronts that street, so the Council did recommend that we move it to 40 all the way to at least to Linder. So, that way the -- the roadway does change a little as you continue west and we felt with the Ten Mile interchange project that that will probably change some at that point anyway, but right now they didn't -- they did lower it a tiny bit a year ago from 50 to 45, because of the buses are there and SSC is there on Franklin as you head westbound and because of those two large users on Franklin they felt that 50 was alittle -- a little too fast, because having to pick up in that direction, so they did recommend leaving that to where it is right now, which is 45. Overland, again, they were looking at -- and Council was requesting that it be more consistent. If you notice on the map, Overland is 40 up until the intersection of Meridian Road. There is a grade change there, anyone that is familiar with area, there is a new Lowe's there and a Walgreens and such. Part of the reason -- and this Council had asked ACHD to consider looking at that area, whether newer traffic studies have been done, that the road change was part of the reason for the lower speed limit. I think it's 25 miles an -- or 35 miles an hour, because it's difficult getting in and out, but we weren't sure from the commission side or the Council that the studies are more recent and whether or not there have been any new studies since the roadway has been expanded and now that it's a fairly large road and a larger intersection that that may or may not make the difference and this Council had requested that them moving the 40 all the way to at least Stoddard area. Again, Victory, there was no recommendation on the east-west roads. Last month the commission did discuss the north-south roads and I will just briefly go over those again. The City Council has not had this report presented to them yet, so I'm just doing that now. On the north-south road on McDermott it's currently 50 from Ustick to Franklin. There are no changes that were recommended on that. Black Cat between Ustick and Cherry and Chevy Lane to Franklin, if you notice on your map it says the -- on Black Cat it is 45 -- or, excuse me, 45 between Ustick and Cherry and 35 between Cherry and Franklin and the commission's recommendation is that it be one or the other, that it be consistent and this commission was favoring 45 miles an hour. They felt that it was adequate on Black Cat in those areas based on the level of -- of development, that 45 would still be a safe travel speed on that road. At Ten Mile there was no changes recommended, again, in anticipation of the Ten Mile interchange. The commission's feeling was that the roadway will change significantly as that process goes on and it was probably premature to make any recommended changes at this time. On Linder the commission recommended moving the speed down to 35 from Chinden to Ustick, due to the fire station, Rocky Mountain High School and Sawtooth Middle School. If you notice on Linder it is 40 from Ustick to just that first mile to McMillan and, then, it's 35 the rest of the way. So, it's the area right in front of Rocky Mountain High School and Station Five. The commission recommended that move all to 35 at this point. Meridian Road, again, Meridian City Council -ACRD Commissioners Joint Meeting January 12, 2009 Page 4 of 24 it°s 35 -- it's 45 miles an hour from Chinden to about a half mile south before you get to McMillan and, then, in turns to 35. There are -- Heritage Middle School is at the comer there. Meridian and McMillan is about where the 35 changes. The commission recommended it be one consistent speed the entire way, instead of half mile change. The Locust Grove -- this is another one -- right now if you look on your map it's 50 miles per hour from Chinden until McMillan. There are two charter schools that are there. One is under construction. I don't know if the other one is actually up and operating, but the Foundations Academy is under construction there and I think it's -- I can't remember the other charter school. Compass -- no, it's not Compass. De Weerd: It's an alternative school. Nary: Alternative. That's right. De Weerd: Central Academy. Nary: Central Academy. That's right. And so with -- with that area they felt 50 -- the commission thought 50 was too fast for that and so they recommended that it go -- all the way from Chinden be one consistent speed and, then, that last mile between Overland and Victory -- there was a lot of discussion. It's currently on the map as 40. The commission .did recommend 35. Mostly because there was a recent accident there that probably many of you were aware of. There was a recent collision with a pedestrian there on the roadway. There isn't a tremendous amount of businesses fronting that road. There are all residences, I think, fronting that road in that area. There is an exit from Mountain View High School that comes right out at that particular location. But because of the increased volume of traffic, that was the recommendation at least from the commission. Again, Council hasn't necessarily heard that or agreed with that recommendation at this point. Anyway, those are the -- the discussions we've had on those speed limits. We haven't gotten drilled down further than that. We tried to focus on the major roads first. So, anyway, if there is other questions? De Weerd: Any questions? McKee: I do. De Weerd: Sara. Baker: Why would you not want the speed limit on Victory Road to be more consistent? It goes from 40, to 35, to 45, to 35, 50 -- I mean it seems to me that what we want -- and not only in Meridian -- I'm glad you guys did this and I think it's something that should be done in every city -- is to make the speed limits more consistent, because one of the things we keep hearing -- or I keep hearing is it's almost like a speed trap type situation, you know, and people get very angry about that and I can understand it. So, if you're going to set the speed limits they ought to be fairly consistent, at least over a mile, and, hopefully, more than that and just, you know, make them standardized, not only throughout Meridian, but also throughout the county. But I mean Victory, why would Meridian City Council - ACHD Commissioners Joint Meeting January 12, 2009 Page 5 of 24 you want Victory like that? Or even Overland from Meridian to Ten Mile? There is nothing there. Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Commissioners, Commissioner Baker, well, on the Overland one, part of the reason why they recommended moving 40 all the way at least to Stoddard, which is about where that half mile mark is -- Baker: That green? Nary: Yes. And the reason the other part is still 45 is because, again, there is almost no traffic fronting that street at this particular point. The part of the commission's discussion on Overland was, again, with the Ten Mile interchange, the potential rerouting of Overland up above the gray there, that probably is going to change anyway with the construction, so it seems premature to make much of a change and that's why the recommendation only goes to -- really to Stoddard at this point. But on Victory, again, we did look at that and you have got -- you have got -- you're right. It starts at 40, it changes to 35 as you get west of Eagle Road. Part of that is the grade there it changes so greatly. Yeah. There is a huge grade there and so right now, again -- and there is four way stops, so although I do agree with you that consistency would be better, the commission at this point didn't make a recommendation to change that, just because the grades were so significant and, then, of course, as you get in towards Meridian -- or to State Highway 69, that part of that, that little curve that's around it is 35, it's probably more for safety than anything else, because Idon't -- I don't even know that you can go 35 around that curve very safely anyway, and so part of those were, basically, due to the road grade, more than anything. So, that's why. Like I said, the road grade was an issue there at Meridian Road and Overland and the Council didn't -- I guess wasn't necessarily emphatic that it should change, but because the -- the information was based on studies that may have preceded the roadway improvement, because the roadway now -- I believe at least -- and that's what I think ACHD was going to look at, the studies that were done was when the road was still a three lane roadway and the intersection wasn't expanded at Overland and now that it is, maybe there would be a change of thought, because there is more clearance and more visibility. Baker: Yeah. But I -- but I come out of that and tum east onto that and they come down off that hill whipping pretty good. Nary: Right. Exactly. And there is no way to really improve -- Commissioner, you're exactly right. Now is the part of that -- I guess the discussion was there is no way to really improve the visibility orclearance -- Baker: No, because you can't see until they are right on top of you. Nary: -- from the side -- that's JB's and the gas station. Baker: They can't see you until they are right at that top and if you're hitting that at 40 or 45 and somebody pulls out thinking they got time -- Meridian City Council - ACHD Commissioners Joint Meeting January 12, 2009 Page 6 of 24 McKee: Well -- and another issue we have there at Eagle and Victory is the Tuscany Subdivision that we put a brand new full size elementary school in there, so we will have issues of people pulling in and out and it needs to be slower through there. Lary: Yeah. And there has been -- and there has been requests from the neighbors about -- across from Locust Grove as well, because there are -- McKee: Correct. Lary: -- there is a case -- if you're not familiar, there is a case relate school in Tuscany that's on their main entry road -- McKee: Right. Lary: -- some of the traffic does walk across Locust Grove and so there has been some discussion I think from the school district and a few folks about a crosswalk or a light or some other protected crossing in that area. McKee: Yeah. A pedestrian crossing. Yeah. Absolutely. Madam Mayor? ®e Weerd: Yes, Commissioner. McKee: Mr. Mills has some comments for us. ®e Weerd: Okay. Mills: Thank you. I really just wanted to reiterate that we are working with -- with Bill -- with the traffic committee and right now all of our traffic engineering people are going to be looking at each one of the requests that Bill outlined, doing speed studies, checking for accident histories and all of that to see what can fit in. So, I just want to let you know that we are moving forward with it and it's probably going to take about two months to go through all of the intersections and all the roadways that are proposed, so we will be back hopefully with some answers in about two months. ®e Weerd: Well, I would just like to reiterate what Commissioner Baker has mentioned. The reason we requested this map was because there is an impression that we are creating speed traps to -- to cushion our coffers, to get the citizen as much as we can and -- and it really made us sit down and take a critical look. When Council looked at it after our traffic safety commission had a chance to review this, we also understand there is a balance of moving traffic and not necessarily always slowing it down. So, we wanted consistency, we wanted to help move the traffic and make sure that it is done in a safe way, but at least give the consistency. And the best example would be on Pine Street. When kids are present there necessitates that 25 miles an hour, but that's a major corridor and so when kids are not present and the flashing lights are not flashing, they should be able to go 35. And that's where a lot of people are really caught is in our Meridian City Council - ACHD Commissioners Joint Meeting January 12, 2009 Page 7 of 24 ®Id Town area that they don't recognize the speed differences. Main Street is another one. And my husband would probably kill me that I'm using this as an example, but we were driving down it just the other day and I said slow down, the speed limit is 25. He said, no, it's not. Yes, it is. McKee: He was arguing with the Mayor? De Weerd: Well, you know, the speed limit as you get off from Franklin it says 35 and does anyone notice it changes to 25 shortly thereafter? No? So, I guess those are the kind of things that we really need to be sensitive to and make those transitions more logical and so we don't have to tie a balloon on the dang sign so someone might notice it. Yes. (Unknown Speaker): For purposes of this map, would it be difficult to put on here symbols for schools and things where we know there is a -- just to show the reason for the slow down in the traffic? Bird: Sure. (Unknown Speaker): Actually, we have already -- we have got that. I brought a set of maps, but they are (unintelligible), but it does tum on the school (unintelligible) and so I'll give those to Bill. (Unknown Speaker): Because that -- if we had that information on here, it might make it a little easier to discern why the speed limit is slower in certain areas. De Weerd: Yeah. But, again, I'll go back to my first comment is when kids aren't present what is the logical speed? (Unknown Speaker): Certainly. It needs to be consistent. De Weerd: Yeah. Yes. (Unknown Speaker): Is there a difference between the slower speed limits where they have the lights? I'm not familiar with Meridian, so we will say like Curtis Road there with the flashing lights or some of the other places versus ones that only have signs that say school zone? What I'm saying is if you have a flashing light, clearly that -- you can't miss those. So, they should be at least 35 when -- on off (unintelligible), because when the flashing lights go on doesn't it go down to 20? (Unknown Speaker): Yes. (Unknown Speaker): Twenty. (Unknown Speaker): Yes. Meridian City Council - ACHD Commissioners Joint Meeting January 12, 2009 Page 8 of 24 (Unknown Speaker): Which is, basically, you know, crawling through it versus when they don't, so -- (Unknown Speaker): And, typically, Commissioner, that is the case. (Unknown Speaker): Okay. (Unknown Speaker): Usually they are up to 35 when they are not flashing. We did quite a large project about two, three years ago where we put in quite a few flashers all the way throughout the district. There is still some other ones that we need to do and this one that we are talking about on Pine is more an adjustment, but -- (Unknown Speaker): Yeah. Nary: More the newer schools will have those -- you know, unlike a lot of -- (Unknown Speaker): (Unintelligible) go back and retrofit. Nary: And a lot of -- unlike a lot of schools we have them even by the high schools, which wasn't common a few years ago. Meridian High and Mountain View all have flashers. But most of the schools have flasher now. They don't just have when children are present signs. But it certainly isn't all of them, but I think it's certainly a majority of them. The other thing I was going to add to what the Mayor said as well, I do believe that if it hasn't happened yet, ACRD did tell us at the Traffic Safety Commission, their representative, that they would move the 25 mile per hour back to Franklin, so there wouldn't be a break on Main Street any longer, because it is very counter intuitive to folks that it's 35 and it's almost immediately, within about a hundred feet it's 25. So, they would move that back to Franklin, so that it would be consistent all the way. De Weerd: Yes. A follow up? (Unknown Speaker): Just one other thing on the Ten Mile and I understand there is that big project happening, but how quickly -- I mean this is kind of like -- well, I will say what Carol said on Wednesday, it's not rocket science. It goes from 50 to 45 to 35 to 50 and, you know, all within the space of a mile. Can it not be standardized quickly, choose a speed limit and standardize it? I mean we are talking about changing out a couple signs is all and pick a -- pick a speed limit and -- (Unknown Speaker): Commissioner, we certainly can look at it. I don't have all the information on Ten Mile. (Unknown Speaker): Because we have 50, 35, 45, 50 and I'm sure they write quite a few tickets in that area. De Weerd: No, we don't. (Unintelligible). To help our coffers. Meridian City Council - ACHD Commissioners Joint Meeting January 12, 2009 Page 9 of 24 Zaremba: But there are no trees to hide behind. That's the problem. De Weerd: Well, there is no shoulder either. (Unknown Speaker): And I agree with the consistency, but I think we have to be careful just looking on a map, because it always looks so logical on this flat straight line and that's why I think our traffic people can offer some more insight. I mean it's easy to say -- logically you'd always agree with the same speed limit for the whole mile, but like on Victory there is that hill and (unintelligible). De Weerd: Well -- and there is a hill right here, too. (Unknown Speaker): (Unintelligible) when they come down that hill and hit the intersection. Nary: Yeah. Ten Mile in that area, if you're going northbound on Ten Mile on this map, where Lamont is where the speed starts to slow, is -- there is residences there and, then, as, of course, it gets to 35 it's because there is a huge grade drop down there where that Overland connects and, then, it gets 50 on the other side of the bridge, but it is only for a portion of a mile, but there is no other access onto that roadway, except I think one house. So, I think that's why that's there. But I mean certainly I think the commission would be supportive of that and probably the Council. I think, like we said, that Franklin and Ten Mile area, the commission just felt there is probably going to be no one driving on that road six months from now at all, so changing the speed probably didn't make much sense to us. (Unknown Speaker): And nobody wants a speed trap anyway. (Unknown Speaker): And Bill's correct, we have got to look at all the factors -- (Unknown Speaker): Yeah. (Unknown Speaker): -- before we (unintelligible). De Weerd: Well, in that area there is a road realignment, so that should help with a consistency in speed there, it would be our hope. Zaremba: This is backwards a little bit now, but when we were talking about the school zones and there is a number of things that are being retrofitted that weren't there originally, but the mast arm lights that do the flashing and slow -- but also the crosswalk lighting like out in front of Lowell Scott, the more places that we can put that and just to throw it on the radar screen, we have had a request from our parks department to actually do that in the couple of places where we have parks, but no schools. Tully Park in particular could use a crosswalk that has those kind of things and I'm sure there is parks in other cities that attract a lot of youth that that would be helpful for, so -- Meridian City Council -ACRD Commissioners Joint Meeting January 12, 2009 Page 10 of 24 De Weerd: And just a perspective on that one. That's between Cherry Lane and Ustick off of Linder Road, which is a heavily traveled road and our park is -- goes to the -- about the half mile. So, you have all of the residences, subdivisions across the street, you know their kid is not going to walk half mile down to the cross at the crossing light, go across there and then, walk a half mile or a quarter mile back to get to the skate park. So, that's -- that's more the issue there at Tully Park. And, again, maybe having the map that shows where parks and schools are would give that a greater perspective. (Unknown Speaker): Madam Mayor, we did do that. We have parks in here, but -- on the one I brought, but we do have schools. We can add that. And also with the new vehicle registration fee money we are looking at spending a dedicated portion of that money now towards some school -- safe route to schools and a lot of these pedestrian crossings around most schools and we also can do parks, yes. Bird: How about a sidewalk from Ustick to Sawtooth on Linder? De Weerd: They are working diligently on it. (Unknown Speaker): Well, yes, that's Sawtooth Middle School; correct? Yeah. (Unknown Speaker): This coming summer when we do the Ustick project, we will at least be connecting with a paved asphalt pathway I believe all the way up on the (unintelligible). Bard: That's great. (Unknown Speaker): So, they can get their feet off the dirt and the mud and the snow Bird: Not only that, to get them away from the traffic. (Unknown Speaker): Yes. De Weerd: Well -- and you put out a bid and let the bid at least on the first piece of that; correct? Doesn't it start this month, because you need to get that done by -- Sally, you want to just give us an update? Goodell: Sure. Just on Linder generally? We have put out the bid on -- to do the Creason and Coleman Laterals that (unintelligible) is today. Zaremba: Yeah. Your letter said today. (Unknown Speaker): I know it (unintelligible). Goodell: The purpose was to get those two waterways, where we are not allowed to do work during -- when it's wet, when the -- during the imgation season is done and, then, we are going to let the bid in -- I think in March when we go back out -- I had a note so I Meridian City Council -ACHD Commissioners Joint Meeting January 12, 2009 Page 11 of 24 will remember. We will be going back out to complete that -- yeah. We will be going back today and, then, early March for the rest of the project. What we hope to do is have almost all that construction done during the summer for the intersection, so that it will have the least impact on the flow into school. So, it's on track to get that work done in that sequence. It's a little bit more disruptive to the public, because we are going to be closing the road down for a few days to get those two crossings and, then, have to come back in and do it for the intersection, but it -- that was the sequence of events that allowed us to make sure that we get the entire project done either at or before or slightly into the beginning of the school year. Item III: Five Year Work Plan Draft A • Programming /Timing for Specific Projects 1) Eagle, Victory to Ridenbaugh 2) Split Corridor Phase 2 3) Ten Mile /Amity Roundabout • Impact on Programming if ACHD acquires Federal stimulus money De Weerd: Thank you, Sally. Okay. Any other comment on this? Well, we look forward to having our staff work together on this map and having it come back in front of the commission and the Council for adoption of new speed limits. Okay. Item three is our five year work plan. Draft A. And I understand now there is a Draft B; is that correct? Oh, there he is. I'm looking for Caleb and so I did not see him. Flood: (Unintelligible) and I guess that's one of the reasons that it's on the agenda today is could get an update from (unintelligible) on where that is. We did send over a common safety sheet on Draft A a couple of weeks ago. I understand that Draft B is in the works, so don't know if we are ready to discuss Draft B or not, but particular, including the (unintelligible) projects that are listed on the agenda, as well as the maybe if I could throw in a fourth one, there would be Ten Mile, Ustick to Cherry would be our -- another one that's in the memo that we sent to Andrew a couple of weeks ago, just -- I don't know if that was changed or not. It didn't have time to (unintelligible) maybe address that one, so -- (Unknown Speaker): You bet. And I think I can address them all relatively easily. The concern that Meridian expressed, I'm going to start with the split corridor and come in from there. With the split corridor was that originally we had it funded in two years, 2012 and 2013. I'm sorry, Ishould -- before I even start I should tell you we are taking Draft B for review to our commission this Wednesday, so we will be -- we will be discussing it with them and, then, it will be available, assuming there is still concern, we will make it available to everyone for review. In Draft B the Meridian split corridor is now entirely funded in 2012. The Ten Mile, Ustick to Cheny, which was also (unintelligible) years is now entirely funded in 2013. So, we were able to pull those together. The Ten Meridian City Council -ACRD Commissioners Joint Meeting January 12, 2009 Page 12 of 24 Mile and Amity roundabout, the Council had indicated that it was not as high of a priority to you and you would not be concerned about seeing that delay. We looked at that and it's scheduled in 11 -- 2011 and right now there is no projects of comparable size that would be an obvious trade, say to 2012, for example, but we will continue to look for those opportunities as -- as we get a little closer. Eagle, Victory to Ridenbaugh, still remains funded in two years. It's still partially funded in '10 and partially in '11. Timing is extremely tight and we have two or three things in motion here. One of them is what's going on -- going to happen with the economy. On the one side we see some bids coming in low and we are hopeful that we will get some better prices this year than what we had otherwise expected. On the other side, if the economic stimulus package should end up with a lot of projects funded in this area, we are thinking that the demand for the construction forms will go up again and we might not see quite as good of prices as we are seeing right now. So, we are pretty unclear what that's going to look like. Also, depends, I guess, a little bit on what happens with GARVEE funding, you know, and getting those projects out and into construction. That will put some further demand on the local contractors. So, we are kind of looking at -- we are doing everything we can with Eagle, Victory to Ridenbaugh, to get it funded in '10 or as much in '10 as possible. And it's going to be a nickel and diming kind of thing. We are looking to see if there is some small things that we can move around from '10 to '11 to open up some space, even from Draft B. We will be looking at bids that come in. If they come in lower, you know, that will be priority to fund as much of that project in '10 as possible. It's just real tight. (Unknown Speaker): That's my number one project. (Unknown Speaker): Yeah. I bring it up all the time. De Weerd: Yes, Commissioner McKee. McKee: Sally? (Unknown Speaker): I can tell you how long it takes to get through there and it's a minimum seven, eight minutes and it looks like it's as bad east-west. (Unknown Speaker): It's a mess. McKee: But, Sally, even though that we are doing this in 2010 and 2011 there could be a chance that we go from one part of the project into another? Goodell: Yes. Start the construction in '10 and try to manage the -- (Unknown Speaker): Construction and -- Goodell: -- so that it flows. (Unintelligible). Meridian City Council - ACHD Commissioners Joint Meeting January 12, 2009 Page 13 of 24 (Unknown Speaker): -- from 2010 and to 2011 and our budget (unintelligible) in October. (Unknown Speaker): Yes. (Unknown Speaker): It's not optimal (unintelligible) to have it over two years either. It makes the construction sequencing not ideal. We would like to get it all funded and go in one year if possible. We are just struggling with (unintelligible). Bird: You're better off to get it all in one if you could. De Weerd: Well, I think, too, you put that in a project that would be on the stimulus package if there was any money that came in. I have a copy of -- (Unknown Speaker): Well, let me just make a couple more remarks about things in Draft B of the five year work plan and, then, I'll address the stimulus money. A couple other things that we see in Draft B, we did drop some of the Fairview projects -- of course, they had a little bit in Draft A. We dropped them back. Those in the Meridian did not go, we had (unintelligible). We have Fairview projects from (unintelligible). (Unknown Speaker): (Unintelligible) widening it to what -- (Unknown Speaker): Well, that's what we are determining in the Fairview concept design that we are doing right now -- (Unknown Speaker): Thursday. (Unknown Speaker): -- at this point. Yes. (Unknown Speaker): But I thought the eight mile goes to -- what is it, Linder? Is that it? (Unknown Speaker): No. (Unknown Speaker): Or to Linder? No? That's not eight mile? (Unknown Speaker): It's -- well, maybe the whole project does go to Linder, but the -- Bird: Orchard to Linder is the whole project. (Unknown Speaker): Yes. (Unknown Speaker): Yes. The three mile -- the miles that are in here for Fairview in Eagle -- Bird: I was going to say, that's -- Meridian City Council - ACHD Commissioners Joint Meeting January 12, 2009 Page 14 of 24 (Unknown Speaker): -- are -- got to get the right version in front of me here. The right page. Eagle -- Eagle to Locust Grove, Locust Grove to Meridian, it's those (unintelligible). Yeah. And we did not push those back quite as far, although they are still back in -- you know, back in 2014. Baker: And you will have to forgive me. I'm trying to get up to speed here. So, what exactly is the proposal or the idea from Eagle to Locust Grove, Locust Grove to Meridian? You said you're pushing those back. What do you mean pushing them back? Construction? Design? Concept? What? (Unknown Speaker): In previous years Fairview was a relatively high priority for both Meridian and Boise. Baker: Uh-huh. (Unknown Speaker): When we went and requested their project list this year, Boise dropped it out of their project list and Meridian dropped it lower in their priority. In response to that, the priority of the roadway itself dropped somewhat and we let them slip back a little later into the program in order to make room for higher priority projects. Baker: And this is the concept of widening it to seven lanes? (Unknown Speaker): Yes. Baker: Okay. And perhaps -- I can't speak for either Boise or Meridian, maybe you guys can, but Ihave afeeling -- because that project's been around for so long, nothing's happened, it's just -- you know, maybe they think it's pie in the sky. I think it's important, though. It's good we are discussing it on Thursday. (Unknown Speaker): No. But I think part of that, why it (unintelligible) why it changes with maybe everybody's priority is because the development that was going to go -- you know, there was that big development, that seems to have slowed. (Unknown Speaker): Stalled. (Unknown Speaker): You know. So, that's stalled. So, there has been some stall between that big project between Locust Grove and I guess Eagle in that section to the south. De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Zaremba. Zaremba: And the one comment -- and this would I guess just be general background. Meridian also has a transportation task force, which makes recommendations to our Council and, then, to your commission about what our priorities are. This year when we looked at them there were 42 items on that list that were high priorities to us and, in my Meridian City Council -ACHD Commissioners Joint Meeting January 12, 2009 Page 15 of 24 opinion, most of them were deficiencies already. They were not a wish list for something that we think should be in the future. So, we are struggling with it every year, because the same -- yeah, the same things continue to be on the list and I guess you have all heard me say this before, we can only go so far in ACRD balancing the budget by slipping projects off. At some point -- and I know Meridian is behind you and will stand up next to you and support you -- you need to go to the public and get more money and that impacts how Meridian works, because everybody else's traffic comes through Meridian and -- (Unknown Speaker): We did that. We just did that. Zaremba: Well -- yeah. You're going to have another four million a year, but we are talking about 120 million dollars. (Unintelligible). (Unknown Speaker): And you did support us and we do appreciate Meridian supporting us, but we certainly are aware that the vehicle registration fees is only apart -- Zaremba: It's kind of a draw. (Unknown Speaker): -- of the puzzle. Zaremba: And we appreciate that and congratulate everybody on it passing, but -- (Unknown Speaker): We have to move forward. Zaremba: The point I need to make -- when -- when you see that in Meridian's list Fairview may have dropped a little bit, it's a difficult decision that we go through when there is 40 things that should have been the number one priority or should have been done four years ago or eight years ago and, yeah, it doesn't mean that we care less about Fairview, but maybe Ten Mile is the hotter issue, because it was supposed to have been done last year and now we are looking at the interchange coming in and it needs to be -- you know, we shuffle. De Weerd: Well -- and a lot of that -- the discussion has also centered around making the east-west corridors that are functioning even less improved intersections and I'd rather see an improved intersection on Ustick and McMillan to how we can move traffic on that before we improve Fairview to see how much wider Fairview needs to go. If -- it's abalancing act for our community and has a lot of need, because we are still living as rural roads and we are moving urban traffic on it and so at this point intersection improvements make greater sense than improving Fairview to -- to be another rift dividing our community like I-84 does. Bird: Madam Mayor, though, the problem -- I agree with you a hundred percent, but we need to know what -- if it's going to be seven lanes, we need to know what footage and Meridian City Council - ACHD Commissioners Joint Meeting January 12, 2009 Page 16 of 24 right of way we need, so that a lot of the areas that are not developed yet we can get that the same thing that we got out on Chinden. We need to know. We are not -- we know that in my lifetime time I'm never going to see a seven lane road of Fairview. (Unknown Speaker): We need to give you a (unintelligible). Bird: Well, we need to know when these developers come in how much right of way we need and not have to go back after they have developed and buy it -- (Unknown Speaker): Yeah. Bird: -- because that's where your expense is. De Weerd: Or even curb cuts. (Unknown Speaker): And that's where our concept design is going to tell us that. Correct. Bird: That's what we are working on. (Unknown Speaker): Yeah. (Unknown Speaker): The concept is structured to define what that footprint needs to be to define the sequencing which construction should be occur and I really expect that the focus will be on opening up the intersection. That's consistent with what we are doing in the (unintelligible) Fairview and it will describe a sequence of events and the timing in which the improvements should occur. And also we have all been working very closely with your staff on access management strategy as well to implement it over time and the funding to do some implementation for that has been included in the five year work plan as well. (Unknown Speaker): What year? (Unknown Speaker): It may have to move a bit. I think it's in '11, but let me double- check. De Weerd: Well, we wouldn't get the plan until '11? (Unknown Speaker): No. No. We are doing that -- the plan right now. And the plan will be available, so that we can work on things like consolidating driveways and taking those actions that are necessary during the development and review process to advance the overall goals, but there will be -- there is currently funding to do some design work in '11 and, then, potentially put some -- I don't see the medians in here until probably -- to put the medians in on (unintelligible). Meridian City Council -ACHD Commissioners Joint Meeting January 12, 2009 Page 17 of 24 (Unknown Speaker): Madam Mayor, while she's looking for that, if I could just speak to Council Bird's question. We are presently preserving for seven lanes. Whenever development (unintelligible) come in along the Fairview corridor. So, that's -- it's been that way for several years now (unintelligible). (Unknown Speaker): Construction of the -- construction of the -- construction of the medians out in (unintelligible). So, it's still out there a ways. (Unknown Speaker): Madam Mayor, when do we expect to have the Fairview concept study done? Or do we have an ETA on that? (Unknown Speaker): You know, I think it's later this year. (Unknown Speaker): Okay. (Unknown Speaker): We have accelerated the access management plan. We are actually going to be reviewing that with the policy committee this Thursday. We will be coming out and talking with the Council and the Commission on what those provisions are, trying to actually move that ahead and, then, wrap up the rest of the Fairview concept. (Unknown Speaker): Okay. So, in 2009. (Unknown Speaker): Yes. (Unknown Speaker): Great. De Weerd: And we will always also get the plan -- you know, our concern has also been, as you turn that corridor into seven lanes -- so, we are going to have asphalt, curb, and asphalt. And that, to me, is not acceptable. Is it -- it has been a concern and, you know, we are looking at how that's going to be handled. (Unknown Speaker): I absolutely agree and, you know, I just spent three weeks in Daytona, Florida, but on their Route 1 -- and Route 1, if you know anything about back east, Route 1 goes from the tip of Miami, below Miami, all the way up to Maine and, you know, I guess you could -- it would take you a month and a half to drive it. But they are now through -- through Port Orange, South Daytona, Daytona Beach, and they are putting these median strips in. I was talking with Lisa Applegate about this and they are landscaped and they are just gorgeous and, you know, you don't have to get really fancy with them, but you just have to make sure that they are not weedy and that they are maintained and you put trees on them and it's great. And that's what we need to do, because I absolutely agree, it would be -- it would be a crime to put medians that are just nothing but concrete that get, you know, filthy. We have got to do something with them. Meridian City Council -ACHD Commissioners Joint Meeting January 12, 2009 Page 1 S of 24 (Unknown Speaker): But I -- yeah, but I think we are already past that. That's why we have TLIP and that's why there is options in that. I think the only discussion that really probably not settled with each city is just distribution of cost. But we have already stepped forward, you know, in (unintelligible) certain cases we will buy the additional right of way and, you know, there is these agreements. So, I think we are already past that and we are offering those options. (Unknown Speaker): The cost share -- the concept design is looking at I believe three separate footprints, which include kind of the minimum in terms of what's outside the curb and, then, options for an enhanced extra outside the curb and it will create cost estimates, so that we can have a much more substantive discussion about what it is we want to do. (Unknown Speaker): We are already there. Ue Weerd: Well, no, I don't think how the city is looking at paying for something that usually development has put in. You're taking their right of way. In some cases you're going to be taking their parking lot and, then, they are going to have to be finding other - - other parking alternatives. But, again, we don't want to see a situation where it just turns into a pavement, curb, sidewalk, pavement. And I don't see the city paying to look at landscaping that we are already created, because we followed the required right of way at that time. Of course, that's my opinion and I don't have a vote unless they tie. (Unknown Speaker): I don't think you're going to have to wont' about that. ®e Weerd: Yeah. I know. I don't think I do either, so -- (Unknown Speaker): Are you talking about taking our existing landscaping? ®e Weerd: Absolutely. (Unknown Speaker): Is that what you're refemng to? (Unknown Speaker): Okay. We are going to make sure that we evaluate what that is or isn't when we are working through the concept design. Huber: But even when we take it out, if, in fact, everybody agrees and you guys agree and everybody gets whatever figured out and lots of times I think it does come down to a parking issue. Well, then, that gets back to the city, so, then, the city is going to have to retook at that parking situation and see if you can give some on it, because it can't be us all give and, then, we don't -- you don't address the parking, because I know a lot times that is what happens, it's the parking becomes the bigger driver than anything else, because they lose X spaces and, then, they don't meet the requirements or that building's, you know, then, changes its use, so -- Meridian City Council - ACHD Commissioners Joint Meeting January 12, 2009 Page 19 of 24 De Weerd: Well, they are not going to park out on the street, Sherry, so I mean that's parking is, of course -- Huber: Oh, no. I know. Parking is a big deal. De Weerd: Yes. Well, we'll wait and see. Zaremba: Yeah. Well, I'm -- Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes. Zaremba: I was just going to comment on the median part of it. I think the Fairview concept committee is in favor of medians and most of us are along Fairview, particularly if we are going to add another lane in each direction. The turning movements just are not safe and the median needs to be there to stop it. What part of the issue will be -- I think we all buy into this, but the people that have their businesses along there expect people to be able to turn left immediately into their driveway, to exit their driveway and turn left across three lanes of traffic, and that's where we are all going to have a sales job that we need to do is to convince them that your public will be safer if we put this median in. So, to us it's a done deal, but it isn't necessarily a done deal to our constituents, you know -- (Unknown Speaker): Certain times of the day it's sort of scary to make that (unintelligible). Zaremba: Oh, absolutely. I think it's unsafe will it being a five lane. (Unknown Speaker): No. I do, too. De Weerd: Okay. Well -- (Unknown Speaker): You had one more question on here about the economic stimulus funding. I wanted to respond to that. De Weerd: Thank you. (Unknown Speaker): And this point there is the opportunity -- as we understand everything we are hearing about the economic stimulus package, the projects that we have -- most of the projects that we have are ineligible. It's really quite unfortunate. The two big projects that we have that are being designed to federal aid standards, which is Franklin, Touchmark to Five Mile, and Five Mile, Fairview to Ustick, are both, basically, in an entering right of way, either in or entering right of way and these projects have to be shovel ready this summer. There is no way we can get either of those projects shovel ready by -- for -- in a timely manner. Just it's tembly unfortunate. There is a few smaller projects, but other projects that we have ready to go you all are well aware. We have about 40 million dollars worth of work that's on the shelf ready to roll. Meridian City Council - ACHD Commissioners Joint Meeting January 12, 2009 Page 20 of 24 None of it's been designed to federal aid and we have taken those lists and we have provided them to the congressional delegation and we have provided them to COMPASS and said if you're willing to relax those requirements, we have these projects ready to go, but we have yet -- and perhaps Commissioner Amold can speak to this more, she was at the ITD special board meeting last week. At this point no one has heard that there is any conversation that they are going to relax those requirements for federal aid. Now, having said that, we are still looking at several types of projects that we could do quickly under like programmatic categorical exclusions. It's those dam environmental (unintelligible) that are so time consuming. So, we are looking at what we can do in an overlay, the (unintelligible) overlays, maybe some curb, ramp, and sidewalk repair types of activities and we are quickly trying to evaluate a couple of ITS options as well. But if they are not -- the things that we believe we could get ready, given the requirements that appear to be imposed on the fund, are not any of those big projects that we'd love to be building just as you wish we would. (Unknown Speaker): If they are not designed to federal standards, I don't know what that means. You don't have to tell me. (Unknown Speaker): It means it costs 30 percent more, number one. Zaremba: Uh-huh. Environmental impact report. (Unknown Speaker): How quickly would it be to redesign those and how expensive would it be? (Unknown Speaker): A year. (Unknown Speaker): Easily. Easily. (Unknown Speaker): And tons of money. (Unknown Speaker): Yeah. (Unknown Speaker): That we don't have to spend. (Unknown Speaker): No. But we talked about that. If we spent the money, we'd have no guarantee. (Unknown Speaker): So, I wish -- I'm sure everyone just wishes that we could say that we could use some of that stimulus package funding for those projects that are sitting on, unless we absolutely, are our commissioners have directed, gee whiz, if you just relax these requirements a little. (Unknown Speaker): Well, we are no seeing anything yet. (Unintelligible). Meridian City Council -ACRD Commissioners Joint Meeting January 12, 2009 Page 21 of 24 De Weerd: There is too many conversations going on right now. Zaremba: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Zaremba. Zaremba: Is there -- if we aren't able to apply any of that stimulus money to actual ACHD projects, is there any way that we and ACRD help identify projects that we want to support ITD in going after? I mean there must be places where we intersect with their needs and their improvement would help us as well. (Unknown Speaker): That's a great suggestion. Zaremba: And get that money spent in Ada county. (Unknown Speaker): Because nothing's (unintelligible). Zaremba: What can we do to help? (Unknown Speaker): I can address that issue, because I did attend the special board meeting that ITD held last week and they opted by a four two vote not to include any Treasure Valley projects in the stimulus package. Zaremba: Wondertul. (Unknown Speaker): And the governor wasn't pleased. Zaremba: Thank you so much. (Unknown Speaker): There was a lot of bickering among the board members and even at the end it was only a four to two vote. So, I -- my personal opinion is that if we want Treasure Valley projects in there, we are going to have to direct the congressional delegation to try to get that done. We cannot go on with ITD to cant' the ball for us on that. (Unknown Speaker): But wasn't -- I mean this is the one what Butch Otter was upset about; right? (Unknown Speaker): Yes. (Unknown Speaker): So, they might be -- working with him might be actually to effect change on ITD, might be another way to go. (Unknown Speaker): And in particular, because so many times on our projects it really does relate to safety. It's not just an expansion. Meridian City Council - ACHD Commissioners Joint Meeting January 12, 2009 Page 22 of 24 De Weerd: We are trying to build a case on both state and local roads that are certainly Meridian needs and we can get you a copy of the list we have been sharing, so -- and the federal aid thing is just going to have to be figured out, because I think they have that same challenge at ITD in getting things ready within the 180 days or whatever it was. Yes. Zaremba: Are we ready to go backwards to a -- have we exhausted that? One of the first things you said was about the split corridor and I missed the gist of it. Are you saying that -- really, what I'm interested in is phase two able to follow phase one without a delay? (Unknown Speaker): There is a gap. Phase two is scheduled for construction in 2012. So, there is a gap. Zaremba: Of about one year? (Unknown Speaker): Well, two, because -- De Weerd: And that hasn't changed. Zaremba: That hasn't change. Okay. (Unknown Speaker): Well, actually, it would be three, because -- Zaremba: I didn't hear you mention the phasing, so -- (Unintelligible). De Weerd: Uh-huh. This summer. (Unknown Speaker): Phase one will be constructed in 2009 and a pause of '10 and '11, and, then, phase three will be constructed in -- excuse me. Phase two will be constructed in 2012. Item I: Presentation on HUB Project on the Northeast Corner of Broadway and East 2~a Street De Weerd: Anything further on this? Okay. A presentation on the HUB project by Mr. Wardle. Wardle: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Members of the Commission, my name is Shaun Wardle, I'm the administrator for the Meridian Development Corporation. Thanks for having me today. It's great to have you in downtown Meridian. Unfortunately, I looked at my agenda and -- so, if you want to know how long it takes to get from Adam Street back downtown Meridian, I can let you know that. Thank you for Meridian City Council -ACHD Commissioners Joint Meeting January 12, 2009 Page 23 of 24 moving me on the agenda. We are here today to discuss, really, 2nd Street in Meridian. So, I will give you just a little bit of background that you have heard before. We have a mixed use project on the corner of Broadway and 2nd Street, which is supposed to begin construction in this spring. The project is through design review, through construction documents, is in the City of Meridian awaiting, essentially, a building permit. And so the Meridian Development Corporation originally assembled those parcels, has tamed that to a private developer that is going to do a three story, 27,000 square foot project. As a part of that initial design phase, the Development Corporation took a look at what was happening within the downtown core. One of the -- one of the Urban Renewal Agency's focuses is pedestrian access and so we looked at 2nd Street in Meridian and looked at the opportunity to make that pedestrian friendly core as part of the construction of this new development and so we have engaged an engineering firm to take a look at the particular item -- I'm going to get on the screen here and just to orient you real quickly, we are exactly one block east of here. So, Main Street and, then, 2nd Street. And what we are looking to do, in phases, obviously, is to create more of the pedestrian feel in this area and as a result of that we have done some engineering and on Friday submitted a letter to your development services, after having met with your staff, getting some direction, and I appreciate ACHD staff working with us to get through the proper channels. Have submitted a letter requesting that 2nd Street in Meridian be changed from a two way traffic situation to a one lane, southbound traffic from Idaho to Broadway. And so just wanted to bring that up as a point of discussion. I know that it's working through your process again. We just submitted Friday afternoon to your staff. And so that's what's happening in that time frame. De Weerd: Any questions? Wardle: One other item. I know that we have been working on -- city legal staff has been working with ACHD legal staff and that is the licensing of sidewalk improvements in the downtown area as we -- as we do both sidewalks and as we do hardscape items, such as street lighting and benches, trash receptacles, as well as business comes in -- businesses come in and do outdoor cafes, I believe they are working through a process, at least on the very initial phases, and it's something that I think is true this spring. So, with that I'd stand for any questions. De Weerd: Any update on the striping plan? Wardle: The downtown striping plan has been resubmitted to the highway district. There were a number of changes to the plan. I believe that we have got final review of that. Our consultant has made all of the required changes and have resubmitted that to the highway district. So, I believe in terms of our portion of work, everything is done and is working through the process. De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions? Well, we appreciate you all being here and it's two weeks into the year, but Happy New Year. (Unknown Speaker): Thank you. Meridian City Council -ACRD Commissioners Joint Meeting January 12, 2009 Page 24 of 24 De Weerd: We are adjourned. (AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) ~~ C~3 / t n /~~1 MAYOR TA De WEERD ~ DATE APPROVED A ARA GREEN, DEPUTY z a r~9 AA o ~ ua ~~P1 0 ~r•~ vi 7~" ,~~b ®`S ~t• ~O