HomeMy WebLinkAbout2007-08-14 Pre
E IDIAN--
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL
PRE-COUNCIL MEETING
AGENDA
Tuesday, August 14, 2007 at 6:00 p.m.
City Council Chambers
33 East Idaho Avenue, Meridian, Idaho
`Although the City of Meridian no longer requires sworn testimony,
all presentations before the Mayor and City Council are expected
to be truthful and honest to best of the ability of the presenter."
1. Rall-call Attendance:
David Zaremba ~ Joe Borton
_~ Charlie Rountree ~ Keith Bird
~_ Mayor Tammy de Weerd
2. Adoption of the Agenda: ~/a/~-
3. Follow Up on LEED Program Proposal for New City Hall Binding by
Petra, Inc.: ~ii~-o vie- zyi~ ~rc~•, /v+~ ~ ~,v .ems c,ecd 2 ~~, ®mv ~^-
(*45 min) ~; ~~~- ~, ~iYi7,a~fz'o~
4. Discussion of Transportation Task Force Recommendation
Regarding the Draft FY2008-FY2009 ACHD Capital Projects Budget ~
by Matt Ellsworth: ~t~~~idf,r.~- ~1s~-raj ~~~ ¢ Q,,e.~.L,,,~.,~r~
* Approximate allowable time set for agenda item may change
depending on the discussion. Please use the designated minutes as
a guideline only.
Meridian City Council Pre-Council Meeting Agenda -August 14, 2007 Page 1 of 1
All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearing,
please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting.
•
E IDIAN,-
AHD
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL
PRE-COUNCIL MEETING
AGENDA
Tuesday, August 14, 2007 at 6:00 p.m.
City Council Chambers
33 East Idaho Avenue, Meridian, Idaho
`Although the City of Meridian no longer requires sworn testimony,
all presentations before the Mayor and City Council are expected
to be truthful and honest to best of the ability of the presenter."
1. Roll-call Attendance:
X David Zaremba X Joe Borton
X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
2. Adoption of the Agenda: Approve
3. Follow Up on LEED Program Proposal for New City Hall Building by
Petra, Inc.: Approve Change Order Not to Exceed $205,000 for Silver
Certification
(*45 min)
4. Discussion of Transportation Task Force Recommendation
Regarding the Draft FY2008-FY2009 ACHD Capital Projects Budget
by Matt Ellsworth: Discussed Priority List Sz Alternatives
* Approximate allowable time set for agenda item may change
depending on the discussion. Please use the designated minutes as
a guideline only.
Meridian City Council Pre-Council Meeting Agenda -August 14, 2007 Page 1 of 1
All materials presented at public meetings shall become properly of the City of Meridian.
Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearing,
please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting.
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CITY OF ,~;2_ ~ ~ _'~L-~ -~,
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MAYOR
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Tammy ae weerd NOTICE OF PRE-COUNCIL MEETING
CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS
l~eith Bira
J~~~e~,h w. Borton IlAERIDIAN CITY CQUNCIL
Charles M. Rountree
David Zaremba
NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN that the City Council of the City of
CITY DEPARTMENTS
c;ry Attorney/HR Meridian WiN hold aPre-Council Meeting at City Council Chambers,
703 Main Street
s9~-5506 (city Attorney) Meridian City Hall, 33 East Idaho Avenue, Meridian, Idaho, on
898-5503 (HR)
Fax 884-8723
Tuesday, August 14, 2007 at 6:00 P.M. The Meridian City Council
Fire
540 ~. Frankl;n Roaa Will b® discussin the folloWin a ends items:
888-1234/fax 895-0390 9 9 9
Parks & Recreation
11 w. Bower street Follow Up on I..EED Program Proposal for IVew City Hal!
888-3579 /tax 898-5501
Building by Petra, Inc.
Planning
66o F. watertower Lane Discussion of Trans nation Task Forc.~e Recommendation
Suite 202
884-5533 /fax 888-6854 Regarding the Draft FY2008-FY2009 ACRD Capital Projects
P~h~e Budget by Matt Ellsworth
1407 F. Watertower Lane ~~t~~llulinlil~~~~~
s8s-6678 i fax 846-7366 The public is Welcome to attend the meeting. \`\ooo~~ ~>>,,o®'
Public Works ~~` ~ ~ ~ °~
660 E. Watertower Lane ~ ~~
stl~te 20o DATED this 10th day of August, 2007. '
898-5500 / Eax 898-9551 im~s~~ • ~ _ ~ °^s .~
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- Building ~~~
660 E. Watertower Lane WILLIAM (~'. BERG, .JL~:~~ p(_I ~ ~~~~~~
Suite 150 `~`~' ,~,
887-2211 ;fax 887-1297 ///''/'~~t///1111 Ii1VN~~~ ``\~~
- Wastewater
340]. N. Ten Mile Road
888-2191/fax 884-0744
- Water
2235 N.W. 8th Street
888-5242/fax 884-1159
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting Agenda -August 14, 2007 Page 1 of 1
All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents andlor hearings,
please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting.
~ITY HALL 33 EAST IDAHO AVENUE MERIDIAN, IDAHO 83642 (208) 888-4433
CITY CLERK -FAX 888-4278 FINANCE & UTILITY BILLING -FAX 887-4813 MAYOR'S OFFICE -FAX 884-8119
Printed on recycled paper
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MAYOR
Tat~~1n~~ de Weerd
CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS
f~:.eith Bird
;u~epl-~ 1N. Borton
Charles M. Rountree
David Zaremba
CITY DEPARTMENTS
Ciro P iforney!HR
703 Main Street
898-5506 (City Attorney)
598-55(1, (HR)
Fai 88-~-87?~
r, e
540 E. Franklin Road
888-1234 /tax 895-0390
Parts & Recreation
] 1 W. Bower Street
858-35;'9 /fax 898-5507
L'Iai ininy
660 E. Watertower Lane
Suite 2(12
eti+-55:,3 ~ fay 888-6854
~_~,~; ~e
7407 E. Watertower Lane
;;SS-ci6-8 /tax 846-73(16
Public Works
i~6U E. tWtertower Lane
`~uiC<?00
898-5500/fax 898-9551
Building
660 E. ~1~atertower Lane
Suite 150
887-2271 /fax 887-1297
- Wastewater
i401 I`~. Ten Mile Road
888-2191 /fax 884-0744
Water
~2~0 ".L W. 8th Street
8.88-5242 % tax 884-1159
NOTICE OF P'RE-COUNCIL MEETING
MERIDI~4N CITY COUNCIL
NOTICE IS HEREBY GNEN that the City Council of the City of
Meridian will hold aPre-Council Meeting at City Council Chambers,
Meridian City Hall, 33 East Idaho Avenue, Meridian, Idaho, on
Tuesday, August 14, 2007 at 6:00 P.WI. The Meridian City Council
will be discussing the following agenda items:
a Follow Up on LEED Program Proposal for New City Hall
Building by Petra, Inc.
Discussion of Transportation Task Force Recommendation
Regarding the Draft FY2008 FY2009 ACHD Capital Projects
Budget by matt Ensworth
The public is welcome to attend the meeting.
DATED this 10th day of August, 2007.
~s~~~~
WILLIAM G. BERG,
~. ~~ r~
'~ ®:•
b~~
t -
.~
.~~~ ~~~
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o~iH 19th
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting Agenda - August 14, 2007 Page 1 of 1
All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents andlar hearings,
please contact the City Clerk's Office at 8$8-4483 at least 4$ hours prior to the public meeting.
~IT'Y EIALL 33 EAST IDAHO AVENUE MERIDIAN, IDAHO 83642 (208) 888-4433
CITY CLERK -FAX 888-4218 FINANCE & UTILI'T'Y BILLING -FAX 887-4813 MAYOR'S OFFICE -FAX 8848119
Printed on recycled paper
E IDIAN-'-
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL
PRE-COUNCIL MEETING
AGENDA
Tuesday, August 14, 2007 at 6:00 p.m.
City Council Chambers
33 East Idaho Avenue, Meridian, Idaho
`Although the City of Meridian no longer requires sworn testimony,
all presentations before the Mayor and City Council are expected
to be truthful and honest to best of the ability of the presenter."
1. Roll-call Attendance:
David Zaremba Joe Borton
Charlie Rountree Keith Bird
Mayor Tammy de Weerd
2. Adoption of the Agenda:
3. Follow Up on LEED Program Proposal for New City Hall Building by
Petra, Inc.:
(x`45 min)
4. Discussion of Transportation Task Force Recommendation
Regarding the Draft FY2008-FY2009 ACHD Capital Projects Budget
by Matt Ellsworth:
* Approximate allowable time set for agenda item may change
depending on the discussion. Please use the designated minutes as
a guideline only.
Meridian City Council Pre-Council Meeting Agenda -August 14, 2007 Page 1 of 1
All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearing,
please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting.
d~
• •
Meridian City Pre- Council Meeting August 14, 2007
The Meridian City Council meeting was called to order at 6:00 P.M. on Tuesday,
August 14, 2007 by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd, Keith Bird, David Zaremba, Charlie
Rountree and Joe Borton.
Staff Present: Bill Nary, Matt Ellsworth, Anna Canning, Keith Watts, Joe Silva,
Bob Stowe, and Will Berg.
Item 1. Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
X David Zaremba X Joe Borton
X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
Item 2. Follow Up on LEED Program Proposal for New City Hall
Building by Petra, Inc.:
Borton: Item number two is the follow-up and decisions on the LEED certification
program, follow-up for the new City Hall and I'll tum it over to Wes Bettis to
continue the discussion from last week.
Bettis: Council President Borton, Mayor de Weerd, City Council Members, and
City staff, for the record my name is Wesley Bettis, construction manager with
Petra, Inc., 1097 North Rosario, here in Meridian, 83642. Tonight we are going
to continue our discussion. Mostly we're here to take your questions and find out
what you need to know to understand LEED better as best we can share with
you. With us this evening we have Russ Moorehead from LCA, as your architect
of record, to address any of the design issues. And we have a special guest in
the person of Dave Logan with Ada County to give us some first-person
information based on his experiences developing LEED buildings with Ada
County. First, for the record, Councilman Bird, I would like to make note that
there is some very tall gray steel sticking up out of the hole today.
Bird: Hallelujah. Appreciate that.
Bettis: Secondly, it's important to note that in our current design no changes
need to be made to this building to make it a LEED building. The energy
efficiency, the components that were utilized in this design process are the most
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
August 14, 2007
Page 2 of 26
cost-effective and the most efficient in this application and therefore there is no
additional cost in the material, design, or construction of the building. We're
merely talking about does the City want to have a certification and at what level
for this energy and environmentally-friendly building? With that, I will tum it over
to Russ Moorehead and let him take it from there.
Moorehead: Thanks, Wes. Madame Mayor, City Council Members, Russ
Moorehead, LCA Architects, 1221 Shoreline Lane. I'm here basically just to
again answer any questions and, as Wes pointed out, the design has all the
components in there for a sustainable and green building. It's just at this point
we need to have direction as to whether we're going for the certification process
and what level of potential certification that might be. With us today we invited
Dave Logan with Ada County Operations, who can address to you from a
building owners' perspective. He currently has three LEED certified buildings.
One silver, two certified, and several in the works as Operations Manager for Ada
County through that county. So I'd like to introduce Dave Logan with Ada County
Operations and let him address the Council from a building owner's standpoint.
Logan: Thank you. Good evening. My name is Dave Logan. I live at 9200 Lyle,
Boise, Idaho, and I'm the Operations Director for Ada County. And where would
you like me to start? It's one of my favorite topics - -green buildings. And I like
to refer to them as high performance buildings. Green buildings I don't think do it
great justice in describing the buildings that we're building. High performance is
a much better term. But where would you like me to start?
Borton: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Dave, what I would like, and I think the Council's - -give us some idea of
the pros and cons. And I know there's very few cons. Mostly pros in having a
highly efficient building like the Courthouse or your other buildings that you're
doing. That's what I'd like. And, you know, is the dollar tradeoff worth it?
Logan: Well, I think so. And, you know, I'd like to, as we all know, that the initial
cost of the building is only a fraction of what we'll really truly spend on this facility
or the lifespan of the building. It's less than 10%. And so how we operate it and
the standards that we set on what we build it out of and how we operate it will
really kind of set the tone of where you're going to spend your money in the
future. And we know that high performance buildings will operate 25 to 30%
cheaper over time while producing a much more efficient environment for your
employees to work in. I really think you're going to like the fact that you have an
indoor air quality plan because it's kind of part of the process that you'll go
through. You'll establish policies for operating your building day one, the day you
move into it. You're going to have that indoor air quality plan that you can show
• •
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
August 14, 2007
Page 3 of 26
your employees, that you're protecting their environment. You're also going to
have policies on chemical use and I was there one time. I felt, as Director of
Maintenance at Ada County, that we had a really good indoor air quality plan and
really good policy on chemical use. Well, I found out different. You know, LEED
sets the standard so high that this is an opportunity for you to regulate, to keep
hazardous materials out of your building and protect the environment and for the
people that are working in your building and for the people that come to the
building to do business. It gives, LEED will be, a template over time for your
maintenance people in how to operate the building. Nine months after you
operate your building you're going to be applying for Energy Star certification. I
know that, your engineer knows that, and your LEED people. LEED is going to
put you in the position to do that and hit Energy Star certification every year that
you operate the building. And it just lines you up with that. Some day, well, let
me go on and tell you that you're going to have an altemate transportation
program with the LEED certification. Your LEED certified professional is going to
help you develop that plan and kind of put it in place and you'll be able to track
how many people take advantage of altemate transportation that come to your
building and that also work in your building. You're going to know what's
happening to your storm water. Where's it go? And how to treat it and is it done
properly? And your maintenance people are going to know how to deal with
that. I thought again I had a handle on maintenance and a handle on policies
that we set for our buildings but when we went through the LEED process and
the scorecard we started establishing new standards that were above and
beyond what we were doing. And doing it once is really good. And right now,
like Russ said, we're doing it building after building. But we also have buildings
and projects that we don't do LEED certification but we have the trained
personnel and the policies of the programs that we're able to implement and put
it into the buildings that we don't use and they may or may not ever see a giant
remodel or major alteration to the building. But we implement the programs. We
have the trained people to understand it and it's a benefit to all our buildings. I
can rattle on about LEED for quite some time, but go ahead.
Borton: I got a couple questions. One, a quick one to Keith Watts. My
recollection is that we had decided and approved money for at least the LEED
certification, not at any level. I think that was the $80,000 figure. Is that correct?
Watts: Yes, we've already done that (inaudible). (Inaudible) contractor meeting
for Gary to come into do the commission, the LEED Commission Project.
Borton: So does that mean that, I thought the decision isn't whether or not we're
going to go LEED certified, it's whether or not we're gong to choose to go for a
higher level.
•
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
August 14, 2007
Page 4 of 26
Watts: I believe that is correct.
Borton: Yeah, we're all on the same page.
Watts: The building is designed to be certified. We're thinking it will be LEED
certified with the building as it is. For it to be an additional level, you'll have to
help me out for now. (Inaudible). You have that handy? (Inaudible). Monday
morning.
Bettis: Council, President Borton. It's a little more difficult than just to look at it
as a single cost item. And that's why we asked to come before you and talk
about the LEED certification process as a total aspect to the building. Cost-wise
the Council approved the $80,000 for Heny International to provide
commissioning for the HVAC and electrical systems which also applies to the
LEED criteria. It is one of the criteria that must be met for LEED certification. As
we began looking further into the LEED certification process we discovered that
indeed this building met the minimum criteria for LEED with very minimal
additional information. That cost to get to the certified level we've asked for,
primarily for the purposes of documenting this information, basically sorting the
trash and documenting how much material comes into the building and how
much goes out in recyclables of an allowance not to exceed $45,000. In
addition, we ask for an additional $5,000 to fund, again an allowance item, to
fund a publication for the innovation in the design process that would guarantee
another LEED point which would allow us to have a level of confidence that we
could achieve certification for LEED at that level.
Watts: Which is just a straight LEED certification, correct, Wes?
Bettis: Which is just a straight LEED certification.
Bird: But Wes, what we have right now. We've got points but we don't have a
guarantee of a LEED building. At $80,000 all that did was give us a certificate. I
mean, I realize there's two of us sitting up here that thought that did give us a
LEED building but it didn't. I mean, we've got points towards it, and we might
have it without this extra stuff. But it's no guarantee that we will have it for this,
what we got to already. I thought it did but it doesn't. And I think we all did.
Bettis: Council President Borton, Councilman Bird, you are correct. One of the
prerequisite requirements for LEED certification is complete commissioning of
the HVAC and electrical systems. This is also an aspect that you would want to
have occurred anyway as a part of your building operations start-up so that you
make sure all systems are balanced and working correctly. We have the
advantage of also making this part of the LEED process in this application.
•
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
August 14, 2007
Page 5 of 26
Watts: And I don't speak for LCA directly but they have agreed to also do all
their documentation at no additional charge which they in fact thought Heny was
doing that as well and they are not doing that. So LCA will be doing that division
of documentation without any additional charge.
Bird: Joe, Mr. President, I'm song. Wes, when here a couple, three weeks ago
you gave us the original and if I added it up, the top dollar to get this to him - - do
you know which - -?
Borton: Silver.
Bird: Silver was about $205,000. We figured maybe we could get it down to
$185,000 am I not right? I forgot to bring that paper that had it on it.
Bettis: Council President Borton? Councilman Bird, you are correct. The
handout included the total that added up to $205,000 which included the
allowances that I have reviewed here this evening which include the $45,000
allowance to document and sort the trash and recyclables, a $5,000 allowance
for funding the publication, $10,000 for modeling the HVAC system which is
critical in determining some of the indoor care quality points that are available
through LEED and then a $40,000 allowance for finding and developing an
alternate water source, nonpotable, for the irrigation and the water features. And
if we look at the low end of that plus the, I'm song, I left out the $105,000, which
is the complete documentation allowance for the LEED application which is
essentially a fulltime person following around the installing contractors and the
Heny commissioning people documenting every step of the way and filling out
the application forms for LEED certification. Those add up to $205,000. That's
at the high end. We believe we can do it for maybe as little as $185,000.
Bird: Mr. Bettis, if I could. David, Dave, would you, on $205,000 expenditure,
how much, how long do you think it would take for the payback? I know we've
done, on the high performance class, when it first came out in the 1980's, it was
four or five years to pay for the high performance class in heating and air
conditioning. But if you go to a Platinum building or stuff, how long do you think
the energy savings, it would take to pay back yourself at $205,000, plus having a
better building, a better environmental building for your people? Do you have
any idea, Dave?
Logan: Well, I don't have enough information to be able to find out what kind of
solutions they're looking at in the HVAC. What they're going to do is put some
options together on HVAC efficiency and pick the one that'll give them the best
payback. And they'll probably present these items to you as, like the option for
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
August 14, 2007
Page 6 of 26
the water supply. They're going to submit them to you and you'll be able to pick
one because they're probably not going to be cheap. Well, they may be cheap.
And they need to look at the payback at that time. Part of their job is to sell these
energy efficiency issues to you and provide that payback to you for you to make
a decision. The paperwork is staggering. There is a lot. The USGBC does not
hand out these ratings. You know, likely, a lot of times you'll submit one, two,
three times. And I even was rejected one time on the third time and I appealed
and I got it on the fourth. For a lousy credit. But you do, you go after the credits.
But by the time you're done you really have a great understanding of how you got
there. It's actually a process that you follow through. Probably I would guess
that the amount of material that you'll have to pass on to your maintenance
people and the next generation of people that are sitting here is going to be
staggering. The volumes of information on the type of building you built and the
decisions that you made as you went along and why you made them. You'll
actually have volumes of it and it'll be these guys' job to put that together and
submit that to the USGBC and provide you copies afterwards. They have a
steep road ahead of them to do it. I believe like they're saying that certification is
readily achievable. You don't have to go through every point out there. I'm
happy with certification if it's easily - -. You have to evaluate these costs to see if
it's worth going the extra points. And I missed Silver by one point. And I'm not
going any further. I'm not paying another dime. Because the payback wasn't
there. If I'm right, you know, are you guys saying you'll provide them the option
to say yea or nay on some things?
Watts: I believe they've done some of those.
Gorton: I'll address your question with a question. And I left a message for
Steve this morning and so you can be in the hot seat for us along that - -. And I
kind of asked him before, either to you or to Wes, and I might be the dumbest
guy in the room on LEED certification. I read like crazy on it and the thing that I
think I need to see to understand if we're going to go for a Silver certification and
the high end is 38 points, will it be helpful for me in reviewing the criteria that you
guys have provided is to see the action plan of which specific 38 items you're
suggesting we go to, the action plan on how each of those is going to be
accomplished and maybe there's some sort of eco-charrette where we sit down
and go through each one of those. I have concern that this is unreasonable only
because it doesn't really show a whole lot of capital expense. You know, the
vast majority of it's documentation, and then when I look at the list, there's a lot of
actual hard expenses to meet some of those criteria so I might not get it. But that
would be so helpful for me to see you guys say, oh, do you want to be Silver?
We're going to go for 38 points. Here's the criteria for those 38 and here's the
specific action plan of how each of those points are obtained. That's my
confusion.
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
August 14, 2007
Page 7 of 26
Logan: Councilman Borton, if I'm understanding this right, and I know I'm on the
hot seat right here. The cost that you're paying, the cost for certification,
manage, and document material waste at $45,000. That is managing,
documenting, separating, and making sure the subcontractors manage it, which
helps the landfill. So you're recycling as much materials. Funding a publication
for innovative design process helps us get one point with an allowance of $5,000,
which will get us to the certification level. The rest of this, fund and develop a
nonpotable water source. If we do that, and they would certainly bring the
numbers to you if they haven't already been developed. But that's going to save
you water cost even though you provide your own water through the City sewer.
It does save water and if you were a private entity that would save you cost by
having that for water efficiencies. The other two items, funding the HVAC
modeling and higher indoor air quality efficiency rating at $10,000. Correct me if
I'm wrong, Wes, but that is basically running a modeling for documentation to the
US Green Building Council that in fact we have achieved indoor air quality
certification in levels that are expected for a Silver certification. It's basically
documentation. It's the cost to document all of that. Same thing, the allowance
for application documenting. As Dave pointed out, there is a ton of paperwork to
do. And that's an allowance to get the paperwork, the documentation, to submit
it to the US Green Building Council which then certifies it. In fact, we have
designed an energy or high efficiency building. I'm not sure if I answered your
question.
Borton: No, the question when I look back on the sheet is, are we able today to
check boxes so to speak and say - -.
Bettis: If we can check boxes - -.
Gorton: Which specific ones? Each of the 38?
De Weerd: Mr. Chairman, Mr. President. I guess what it comes down to for me
is one, it's important that we're building a sustainable and efficient building. With
assurances to our employees that it is important to us that their air quality is good
and a lot of things that David stated. What I'm not necessarily interested in is
spending a lot of money just to document, if it doesn't make any sense. I mean if
certification is what we're trying to achieve and that is reasonable to acquire
within a reasonable price, but to spend a lot of money in documentation that isn't
necessary to gain one more point. That doesn't make sense to me. Because
you're only throwing money at it to get the point. If we already have the points
because we hired an architect, LCA, and a consultant to make sure what we are
going to build is sustainable and efficient and pays attention to the whole premise
of why you want a LEED certified building, that's what I'm interested in. But I
• •
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
August 14, 2007
Page 8 of 26
don't need to buy extra points that we're not going to need. We just want to do
the right thing. So can you separate out the points that are already there
because of design and because they're meeting the goal of sustainability,
efficiency, and health.? And tell us what we need to do to get certification to
show that we're doing that. But I don't need to buy extra points. I won't do it in
my mortgage and I'm not really interested in doing it here so - -. Does that make
sense?
Watts: Madame Mayor? Council Members, to try and clarify, the hold on the
cost. I'll need Wes to confirm but I believe we started out at $205,000 was an
estimated cost to attain Silver. And I believe presented to us on Monday morning
it would be, through Value Engineering, a $105,000 savings to go strictly just for
LEED and I wish I could confirm that but I believe that's where we are, just to get
certified.
Bettis: Council President Borton, Council: That is correct. That is what we
presented. And to take it one step further if I could, and I apologize because I
realize that we have these Mayor's Building Committee meetings every other
Monday and we discuss this in detail at times but that is not discussed with the
entire council. So my apologies. There is a checklist which I believe we included
in the book. It's part of LEED. And part of our analysis in bringing this
information for you was to sit down with all of the consultants and go through this.
All these consultants are LEED experienced. They've worked on LEED projects.
They have a good feel for what is achievable and what is not, based on their
design. Through the sustainable sites, there are 14 points available. We believe
we have nine points right now. There are three other points that are possibly
achievable that we would need to look at further. Additional cost involved there,
none from the City's standpoint, other than our time working on this. One of
those items is an altemative transportation plan which we would need the City to
buy into either through ordinance or through proclamation. Under the water
efficiency, there are five points available. We believe we can achieve two with
the current design. There are potentially two more points available to us. Maybe
achievable. One of those is the development of the altemative water source for
the imgation and the water features that are to be included in this project in the
Community Plaza. That has a cost associated with it because that source is not
available on the site at this time. That is either through a shallow, non-potable
well in exchange for surface water rights or to use during the season of your
seasonal surface water rights from the irrigation district. Is there a cost involved
with those? There is some. And that would be reflected in the irrigation and the
water plan for the site plaza. Under Energy and Atmosphere, there are 17 points
available. We believe we can achieve five with the current design. Part of that
has to do with the way the building is oriented and the limitations we had with the
site that we started with and the more traditional design to optimize the space
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Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
August 14, 2007
Page 9 of 26
and optimize your construction dollars. So we aren't getting a whole lot of points
there but we are picking up the commissioning for the HVAC and electrical
control systems. Under Materials and Resources, there are 13 points available.
We believe we have four at this time. There's an additional point available if we
can show that we have material reuse within the building, that is recycled
materials equaling at least 5% of those specified materials. We believe that we
have that with our acoustical ceiling tiles. They're loam but would require
additional analysis. Big item is the indoor environmental quality. Fifteen points
available. Right now we believe we have 13. The HVAC modeling, which is an
additional cost of $10,000, will spell out if we can pick up the additional points but
also be the crux of our defense for our certification application and provide
information back to you, the Council, on the cost of operating this building as
designed versus a more traditional design. Under the Innovation Design
Process, there are five points available. We only show one right as achievable
because this project has been designed by LEED accredited professionals.
However, there is an additional point available with the publication which we call
"Gary Christensen's Blow Your Own Hom" publication to advertise that you are
indeed a LEED building and meet the highest of standards for energy and
environmental design and concern. Based on that information, we believe we
have between 29 and 33 points right now in our design that are achievable. Will
we get those? We don't know at this point. But we believe we have a certified
building. That's why we decided to bring this forward to the Committee and
discuss it in more detail and why it has been brought forward to the Council for
your discussion. To achieve Silver, you just need 33 points. If we can pick up
even one or two points and we get the full 33 that we believe are achievable now,
we are comfortably in the Silver range. Can we guarantee that? No,
unfortunately. But we do have a good basis to start from.
Borton: Wes, for me that's awesome information. I appreciate you providing that
and the patience in my trying to get some of that information. That totals 34 on
my list, which is great.
Bettis: Plus or minus. (Inaudible).
Logan: I need to run so I just wanted to say thank you for letting me come here
and kind of ramble about LEED. I would like to say that your decision was so
wise to do the building commissioning. That effort alone is going to help you
bring that project in on time. It's going to help you bring it at 100% operational
when you expect to move in. And it's going to provide a lot of information for
your maintenance people on how to operate the building. It's really good and it
gives you LEED points. It sounds reasonable, the numbers that they're
presenting to you for certification. And it is a big job. But anyway, I commend
you for your efforts. And I thank you for letting me come here today.
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
August 14, 2007
Page 10 of 26
Zaremba: I do have a question for Logan. Other people have gone ahead of
me but - -. Part of what we're discussing is process. I think we're all in favor of
the high efficiency building and we want to go for that and we want to let the
community know we're going for that. Part of what we're discussing is how much
do we want to pay just to get a plaque on the side of the building? And I feel we
need to advertise it but what we're discussing is not whether or not we're going to
have a high efficiency building but how we're going to document that in order to
prove that we've got it. And my question for you really is as you have done
several of these, have you found, it would seem to be, there must be software
out there. If we are in our bid process telling suppliers that they need to supply
certain equipment, telling builders that they need to build it in a certain way,
telling operators that we're going to have a plan for operating them in an efFcient
way. That work is already being done and what scares me is spending $200,000
to prove that we're doing that work when in fact it's already on paper somewhere.
Isn't there some software that can say we're doing all of this, this is how it puts it
together, and we don't have to reinvent all the documentation?
Logan: Well, in a way there is documentation. And your LEED professional is
going to kind of lead you through that but you'll find that it's - -there are things
that you have to do as an organization. They can't do it for you. It's kind of like
that indoor air quality plan that they were talking about. They can create one,
suggest it to you, but you'll have to evaluate that and decide if you're going to
implement it in your building and pass an ordinance or the resolution in adopting
it. You'll have several of those plans and you'll have other issues that you'll have
to do and somebody will have to step up from the City and say okay, we're going
to uphold the City's end of the process and kind of participate along with it.
There'll be things that you have to do and every project is tailor-made to the
building and the community that you're in. Every single one. And to a point,
there are now templates that they follow and they'll do that for you and walk you
through that and do the documentation. There are some things that you'll have
to do unfortunately and somebody will have to kind of take charge for you and do
that work. You know, maybe Len will do that for you, you know, I don't know but
it's quite a bit. Also this is a way of life. This is an operating philosophy. You
can't put --. You can't buy it and put it on the wall. And it doesn't work that way.
This is a program and a process of, it's a way you do business. It's high
performance maintenance and operation of your building. It's high performance
construction and it's high performance government at its best. And it does work.
And you'll see, you can read articles today across the country where people have
built high performance buildings and go grab that plaque and put it up on the wall
and then walk away. And they find their buildings never perform the way they
thought they were going to. This is a partnership. And negotiate, negotiate,
negotiate. If you don't like $200,000, come back to amend a different dollar
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
August 14, 2007
Page 11 of 26
amount. If you don't like $100,000, come back with them. Negotiate this thing
down and find out who's going to do the documentation. Who's responsible for
it? Are you going to do it - -Phil? Or Russ? Because it's a big job.
Borton: Thank you very much.
Logan: Thank you.
Rountree: Probably a question for Wes. There's no question in my mind that we
want to pursue this high performance building and certification. Whether or not
we want to spend the money to get the higher level, that's for all of us to decide
but I hear things like, well, there's no guarantee and it's documentation and you
have somebody looking over somebody's shoulder to see if something's done
and points are going to be based on model and assumed model results. To me
all of this is based on somebody else's performance besides ours. And quite
frankly it's your performance in terms of how well you've overseen these
activities. And for instance, if in the HVAC model we know we're going to get 13
points and the model says so and we tum it on and it doesn't work. And to and
behold, a square widget is in the system where an oval one should be and we've
paid the freight. We've accepted the building. We've assumed we're going to
get certification but now we don't get the points. We don't have a system that
works that's going to cost an unknown amount of dollars to get it to work not only
to have the high efficiency system but to get the points for the certification so to
me, I appreciate that we have a building designed that's pretty nearly certifiable
as long as it's built according to the specifications. If we're paying another
$200,000 to have somebody else look over somebody else's shoulders, and
there's no guarantee that they're going to look over that shoulder well enough to
make sure the high performance is going to result and there's no guaranty to us
that they're going to do it in such a way as we can get the points then to me it's
kind of a - -you know - -it's like rolling the dice.
Logan: Councilman Rountree, I certainly understand where you're coming from.
Certainly if a round widget was supposed to be used and a rectangular widget
was installed that's when we typically point the finger at the design team and say,
hey, you messed up. No, that's not correct. If it is specified with a round widget
and a triangular widget is put in place, it's no cost to the City to get that round
widget back.
Rountree: I understand that.
Logan: It's the responsibility of your project team, that is your construction
manager, your design team to make sure that with those construction
professionals that we have out there that you get the project you're paying for
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
August 14, 2007
Page 12 of 26
and then some. The certification process in and of itself is separate from the
building and the building performance. It is, for lack of a better term, simply
documentation that you've set the standard for all buildings to follow. In my mind
anyway. And the reason we're asking for the additional cost to process this
documentation is as we sat down with LCA and we looked at the process
necessary and LCA realized that Herry was not including the lead documentation
for the commissioning. That they were stepping up to take care of it. We looked
at our contract, at the total project from where it began to this point and said, you
know, we want this to be right by the City but we can't do it at our current
contract. We will cut it to the bare bones but we want to be able to help you
deliver the product you want.
Watts: Madame Mayor, Council Members: Just to try to put it in simplistic terms,
I believe that the LEED process has nothing to do with overseeing the
construction of the building. It is simply to document what was built, correct
Wes?
Bettis: Partially correct, Mr. Watts.
Rountree: That doesn't sound correct to me.
Bettis: Council President Borton, Councilman Rountree: Part of the process that
is involved in documenting is where ever we have a plenum between rigid walls
that comes down to the hard deck floor. It has to be caulked in place for the
LEED certification because we have to ensure an airtight plenum. Is this
required for the specification? No, not really. For the LEED certification,
absolutely. So we have to have somebody observe that, take a photograph of
that, document what gridline that occurs on, and fill out the application form that
goes with that documentation and goes into that binder. For every one of the
ducts that get installed, the supply clamps that are installed in the floor before
they go to the pressurized floor system, those ducts have to be sealed until they
are hooked up to the final distribution box. That again has to be documented,
photos taken, entered into the application form, and then documented again
when it is unsealed and hooked into the system. The US Green Building Council
reviews the plans of specifications and then they go through the application and
confirm that every step along the way we follow those plans, those specifications
and the additional criteria that they establish for a green building. That is where
the true cost to being the babysitters for that aspect of it, as Councilman Bird
called it in one of our meetings, really comes in to play.
Watts: So it does include that additional caulking, it's not just the documentation
(inaudible) that includes that extra work as well?
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
August 14, 2007
Page 13 of 26
Bettis: No, that's written into the specs, Mr. Watts. The caulking is part of the
insulation process. It's not required by code but it is part of the building process.
Watts: And is it a part of our cost that we've bid out to date?
Bettis: Yes, sir.
Watts: Okay, so I think that clarified it forme. Thanks.
Borton: Thank you, Wes.
Bird: Let me ask a question, Wes. And I was under the impression on this job
that we were probably getting tapes of everything that's going up. Most
construction management jobs that I've been on this size have continually all the
mechanical, electrical, structural, taped as they are put on - -what do you call
them now - -digital cameras that you all visual - - go around and take it. Is this
being done on a daily basis or a weekly basis?
Bettis: Council President Borton, Councilman Bird, we are taking the normal to
excessive number of photographs, digital. We are keeping those in an orderly
format for the job progress as is dictated by our contract as part of our
documentation and we are sharing those with the City. Those are being passed
along on a weekly basis to both Mr. Berg and to Mr. Watts for the City record.
Bird: And this, are those kind of records, Wes, help with the LEED certification?
Like are they something that we could use as proof?
Bettis: Council President Borton, Councilman Bird: Yes, for much of the
information we could be able to use some of this historical documentation and
that would help offset against the allowance that we've asked for so we wouldn't
have to spend as much allowance. It's the more specific items such as sealing
each of the ducts versus the weekly photograph showing where we have sealed
ducts that comes into play as the difference in cost
Bird: So as I understand it, to be guaranteed of our LEED certification, just the
LEED certification, is another $50,000.
Bettis: Council President Borton, Councilman Bird - -
(End of tape).
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
August 14, 2007
Page 14 of 26
Bettis: Guaranteed to attempt to achieve - -too many years working for an
attorney, sir. We want to achieve those points and we believe we can achieve
them. Can we guarantee them? No, we can not.
Bird: That was a wrong word, Wes. But it is - - . So the $50,000 we are pretty
positive will get us the LEED certification.
Bettis; Correct.
Bird: I've got, if I could, one other question. On the HVAC for $10,000 we get
better interior air quality and this might be Russ or yourself, that to me is kind of
an extra that would be nice but should be a necessity. With the way the air
quality and stuff is beginning to become in this valley. I mean, we've had, I get
daily and all of you guys get daily air quality reports and this summer's been bad.
Am I not right? Can this system for $10,000 get us that interior air quality
better?
Bettis: Council President Borton, Councilman Bird, and Russ, I'll let you step in
and add anything you want. The indoor environmental quality is one of the key
issues not only in terms of LEED but in my mind as well from my perspective,
being in the construction industry for over 30 years now. There's a minimum
indoor air quality performance that must be met as a prerequisite. The HVAC
modeling allows us to take a deeper look at the system and to see what little
tweaks we can make to the performance of how the different motors operate,
how the different fans are operating in sequence, the variable speed drives, the
frequency drives are operating. Trying to achieve 30% greater than what is
required by Ashray or recommended by Ashray as a standard for the industry for
increased ventilation to improve and continue to improve that indoor air quality.
Borton: Council, we've got one item on the agenda so we need to have a
discussion and get some direction and I'll be brief and throw my thought out first
on LEED certification. Hearing all the information, my sense is to go forward with
the Silver certification. Understanding of this, I hear the word guaranteed even
though he doesn't want to use the word guaranteed. I'm going to treat it as the
word guaranteed. (Inaudible). I understand it is about a $200,000 expense and
I'm sensitive. One, I want the documentation (inaudible) assures some of these
elements get done and as difficult as a meat grinder process as this might be, I
would like to see us go through it before we subject the developers that are going
to follow. Again, with whom we take a lead on this issue. If it's a horrible, difficult
process maybe we ought to experience it firsthand before we subject private
developers in the future to go through it so - -. It's a risk that I think is worthwhile
for us to go forward.
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Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
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Bird: Mr. President.
Borton: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I thought all along that I'd like to go for Silver. I think you give the reason
whether or not we're going to ask private developers to be LEED certified
(inaudible) efficient buildings. I think we should take the lead. And I'll be truthful
the money we spend I would say that within five years we will recoup it and then
more. Our next generation of employees will thank us for doing it. I firmly
believe that. And our taxpayers also.
Zaremba: Mr. President.
Borton: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I'm strongly in favor of high energy buildings or high efficiency
buildings. I agree that we need to take the lead on that. I do think that it's fair
that we take the extra step even at some expense to prove to developers that we
wish to influence and our own public and our employees who will use the building
that we are taking these steps so I also support the LEED certification. I'm sorry
that I didn't come in on this at the beginning.so I've missed some of the
discussion. I'd be interested in discussing what it would cost to go even farther
than that. There are other levels above that and I don't know whether there's
been discussion of cost versus benefit on making the roof out of solar panels. I
don't know if there's been discussion about capturing rainwater in a tank so that
one, it's never runoff and two, it can be used in the irrigation system. I don't
know if the discussions have been had unfortunately because I came into it late
but there are a lot of things that could be done so let me just say if we are at the
stage where we're discussing Silver and we think that what we're already doing
is enough points, I certainly support that, and it may be too late for a discussion
of whether we could go even farther or pad ourselves with extra points so that we
know we get it. I'm in favor of proving to the world that we're serious about this
and I think it needs to be certified.
Borton: Councilman Rountree.
Rountree: Mr. Borton, I've all along supported the idea of certification. The
levels of certification kind of rolled in as it looked like we were going to certify and
then maybe be able to do something better than just certification in the multiple
levels that are available. I get a little concerned about having to spend money to
document what it is you're doing. Basically you're trying to buy trust. But I also
appreciate the idea that Meridian's kind of taking the leading edge on sustainable
buildings and we are trying to be leaders in the community as far as development
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Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
August 14, 2007
Page 16 of 26
and future direction in the City and for that reason and that reason alone I would
support the effort. But I still would have to say I really get imtated about the cost
of an application.
De Weerd: Ditto.
Borton: Agreed. I wouldn't feel so comfortable if we didn't have a guarantee.
Rountree: Yeah, the guarantee is a concern. (Inaudible).
Borton: Do we need a motion to approve going forward with the Silver LEED
certification?
Bettis: Yes, Mr. President, I think that probably would be appropriate.
Watts: I need approval to enter a change order.
Bird: Mr. President, I would move that we entertain a motion to direct the
change order not to exceed $205,000 for Silver certification on a new City Hall
building.
Rountree: Second.
Borton: It's been moved and seconded to approve the additional $205,000
change order.
Bird: Not to exceed.
Borton: Not to exceed, excuse me, for the Silver LEED certification. Mr. Berg,
role call.
Berg: Thank you, Mr. President. Council role call, vote. Bird.
Bird: Aye.
Berg: Rountree.
Rountree: Aye.
Berg; Zaremba.
Zaremba: Aye.
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Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
August 14, 2007
Page 17 of 26
Berg: Borton.
Borton: Aye.
FOUR AYES. MOTION CARRIED.
Borton: Thank you very much. Russ and Dave left. Wes, I appreciate you guys
coming, sharing your information. (Inaudible) City go through this.
Item 3. Discussion of Transportation Task Force Recommendation
Regarding the Draft FY2008-FY2009 ACHD Capital Projects
Budget by Matt Ellsworth:
Borton: One more item on the Pre-Council agenda. I'll tum it over to Matt
Ellsworth. Matt, I apologize for the delay in getting to you but we've got in front of
us the proposed ACHD Budget for 2008-2009 and some drastic changes to it so
Ellsworth: Mr. President, Members of the Council, that is correct. I'm here this
evening to seek your direction on and make sure that you're aware of a couple
issues surrounding this year's proposed ACHD fiscal year 08-09 Budget. Diving
in briefly, this is what was adopted last year for fiscal year 2009 and the reason
that I show it, if you wanted to focus your attention at the pie chart at the bottom,
that shows the distribution of construction funds proposed for fiscal year 2008.
Pretty much evenly distributed between Boise and Meridian with the remainder
among the other three communities. Unfortunately, when they started penciling
things in, going to this year's budget cycle, they noticed a $16.3 million shortfall
as predictable with cost escalations and so forth. Bottom line is, some projects
had a delay. So the projects that were proposed for a delay, that are proposed
for a delay are Ten Mile-Franklin to Cherry, Eagle-Victory to Ridenbaugh, the
intersection of Victory and Eagle, (inaudible) McAlister to 36~', and Deer Flat from
Meridian Road to Kuna. As you can see with this next slide, you have, the
amount of the burden that with this proposed action is now placed on the other
projects within the City of Meridian. Staff felt it was worth some discussion so we
increased that burden up to 87.8% as opposed to 12 for the rest of the County.
The Transportation Task Force discussed this matter last Thursday and they too
felt that that was a bit of an unfair level of the burden for any one community to
have to shoulder so recommendation that they asked me to come forward to you
with conceptually speaking is to separate out the intersections involved in those
projects to see if there's any way to construct them over atwo-year phase period
in that intersections in fiscal year 2008, roadway segments in fiscal year 2009.
Kind of a secondary component to the recommendation that they sent me
forward with is that the Park Center Bridge construction project is slated to begin
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Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
August 14, 2007
Page 18 of 26
construction next year, that's fiscal year 2008 with a little bit over $6 million.
They're still waiting, some of the (inaudible), the four permits from the Corps of
Engineers and the other permitting entities. They're still out and by all accounts
there's a good chance those will come through in time but there is a chance that
they will not. So part of that recommendation is also to request that ACRD
channel those funds to target other projects if the Park Center Bridge
construction does happen to fall out. Of course, to do any of these, and that's
from atwo-phase, two-year phase construction schedule to full on trying to get
any of these Meridian projects included in the construction budget for next year
would require delay of other projects. So here is, I have a list, and this is also on
the handout that I provided, the support materials that the ACHD Commission
does also have the authority to shift around should they feel it's beneficial for the
district. Unfortunately, over the course of the past couple days I've teamed that
there are some complications involved in extracting these intersection projects
out of what was proposed for 2008 and 2009. Particularly Ten Mile and Franklin
intersection, right-of-way scheduled for this project is already delayed. It's
running a little bit behind. So that coupled with bullet point number two up on the
overhead there, irrigation facilities, limited window for construction. So when you
pair those two together along with the fact that this is going to be the alternate
route when ITD and the connecting Idaho partnership rebuilds the Black Cat and
Robinson structures in 2008 and 2009, it is no longer possible to construct, to full
on construct the intersect of Ten Mile and Franklin in 2008. Now ACHD has
already begun discussions with ITD to construct an interim. signal and related
intersection improvements on the ground, widening the lanes and so forth. So
they're hoping to get that included. It's kind of a precursor to the Ten Mile
Interchange construction but that's a discussion that's in process. Moving along,
Eagle from Victory to Ridenbaugh, in speaking to ACHD staff, as it turns out, it
wouldn't be practical to separate the intersection of this project from the greater
roadway project. When we start looking at drainage, taper lanes, so on and so
forth, if you're going to do one, you might as well do both is basically ACRD
staffs take on this. One of the larger projects that the Task Force considered for
recommending to allow one of these Meridian projects to bump up to 2008 or
remain on track, I should say, was the intersection of Fairview and Cloverdale.
Now this is one where the technical warrants may or may not be there but this fell
out of the project from program, rather from last year, and that coupled with the
fact that it's currently coordinated along with the City of Boise Public Works
project. ACHD staff feels that this one might be an extremely tough sell to their
commission. Another factor weighing into all this is other cities' priorities. One of
the, the second project that the Task Force discussed rather heavily
recommending for delay in favor of keeping some of these projects in Meridian
on track for 2008 is up in Eagle, Floating Feather from Eagle to Edgewood. This
is another one that has been delayed over the course of the past several years.
ACHD staff indicated to me that that would be essentially like suggesting another
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
August 14, 2007
Page 19 of 26
delay of Locust Grove overpass, just to bring it home and so that everybody
understands the weight that the City of Eagle has on that. So, for Council's
consideration tonight, it's a couple of different things here. First and foremost, is
Council willing to outwardly accept what is proposed in the draft budget? And if
this is something that you'd like to consider making a request of the ACHD
Commission of, what projects would you suggest requesting fallout in favor of
some of these Meridian projects? Before we dive into discussion, the timetable
on this - -ACHD has aPre-Commission Workshop for this tomorrow morning
and that's one week in advance of the public hearing for the budget. The public
hearing is actually going to be a week from tomorrow so my thought was if it's at
all possible to even get some preliminary thoughts in front of them if we are going
to suggest anything that deviates significantly from what is proposed in front of
them right now to plant the seed and then come back with something a little bit
more concrete, some more specific recommendations prior to the hearing. Or
even at the hearing at that point. I think that would be better than trying to spring
something, that shakes things up this much on them on the spot the day that they
are hoping to take some action on the budget. I did prepare a couple potential
options which sort of could paint a picture for possible recommendations that the
City could consider but before we dive into that, I guess I'll turn it over to you to
see if you have any initial thoughts or any questions, anything along those lines.
Borton: Thank you, Matt. Council? Any questions, comments, concerns?
Rountree: Matt, I don't know if it was a Freudian slip or not but you got bossy on
here and it seems like they came out ahead on the third page of the pie chart.
Ellsworth: That'll show 'em. No, that's - - . I apologize. A lot of information, like
I said, was coming in over the course of the last couple (inaudible).
Borton: Matt, why don't you walk through your options and considerations and
what you think your recommendation is?
Ellsworth: President Borton, we can do that. And again, these are (inaudible).
These are two examples of the sorts of things that you guys may wish to
consider. As option number one, would be to request the separation of Ten Mile
from Pine to Cheny so it basically would cut in half that greater roadway project.
Then also to embrace that recommendation, to construct the interim
improvements down at Ten Mile and Franklin. Conversations with ACHD staff
indicate that approximately one-third of the greater roadway project would be
necessary to construct, adjust the segment of Ten Mile from Pine to Cheny,
which would be at about $3 million. So one possible project to request delaying if
they rub that is Floating Feather from Eagle to Edgewood, and again I mentioned
the issues that are attached to that suggestion just a moment ago. But between
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Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
August 14, 2007
Page 20 of 26
that and some cushion that was already built into ACHD's proposed budget for
next year, that would get up above that $3 million and presumably allow the
construction of at least half of that roadway segment to move forward. Projects
delayed - -the only difference between this and what is currently proposed is
one, the adjustment of the Ten Mile-Franklin to Cherry roadway project to scale it
back to only include Ten Mile from Franklin to Pine. And then like I said, the
inclusion of Floating Feather from Eagle to Edgewood. And that would get back
up above that $16.3 million shortfall that the district is currently experiencing.
Advantages and disadvantages, of course. This would still allow at least two of
the three recommended intersections that the Task Force sent me forward with
today. And the relatively few additional projects that would need to be delayed.
Disadvantages - - it would still allow Eagle from Victory to Ridenbaugh to slip.
That project was initially proposed for construction in 2007. During last year's
Five Year Work Program update, it fell back to 2008. This should the proposed
ACHD budget go forward, it will fall out again another year for proposed
construction in 2009. Again, in fact, the Eagle project politically could be a tough
sell but it is an option for request from the City. This would slightly more
equitably distribute the burden of making up for that $60 million shortfall. As you
can see, it takes 15% of that burden directly away from Meridian and
unfortunately, puts it in Eagle's lap at that point. But again, like I said, that is an
option the City could consider. Second option would be to again request the
interim improvements of the Ten Mile and Franklin and also to request the full
Eagle from Victory-Ridenbaugh project, the estimated cost of which is
$5,757,000.00. One option to offset that delay could be pushing back from 2008
to 2009 the construction of Fairview and Cloverdale that has a price tag of $4.7
million. SO you can see with the map up on the screen there that could offset
the $5 million plus that would be needed for the old Victory-Ridenbaugh. Overall
projects delayed - -guess we're going to have a few more. The first couple
projects here are as opposed by me out of the draft budget would also have to
include Third Street and Myrtle. That's a construction project over in Boise. The
last three down here are actually design projects - -the 30~' Street extension,
Ten Mile and Amity intersection and also Five Mile from Franklin to Fairview
intersection. Advantages and disadvantages, again, this would take care of two
of the three intersections but the Task Force really focused on affording a
recommendation that allows the construction of that project that was already
delayed from 2007 to 2008 in Eagle, Victory, Ridenbaugh and it even more
evenly distributes the budget shortfall among constituent municipalities. There
are, of course, some disadvantages. It delays a whole lot more projects so the
political liability of this is questionable and I did put up more of a fight trying to
convince folks that this is the appropriate move to make. ACRD staff did express
some concern with delaying project design right now because it could lead to
somewhat of a lull in future construction years. And again, it impacts Boise's
project. However, here's that burden of distribution and this much more closely
•
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
August 14, 2007
Page 21 of 26
mirrors that pie chart from the very beginning jumping back here. If you look
down at the bottom here, that was what was initially proposed for construction in
2008. And, again, evenly split between Boise and Meridian. Jumping back
forward. And, again, it's not a perfect split. But this does distribute things a little
bit more evenly around the County and so any combination of those two
recommendations could theoretically come from City Council. There are several
of those projects. You know, again, the pros and cons of recommending some of
them for delay are apparent and I can elaborate on those some more if the
Council wishes to hear. But, again, I was hoping to come here today seeking a
little bit of direction from you. Right now this item is scheduled for an ACHD
Commission Workshop coming up tomorrow morning. So if the Council would
like, I could somewhat ambiguously recommend a couple of different strategies
that could help even things out a little bit without really nailing down a direction at
this time. Bring it back before you after discussing those further with ACHD staff
to again seek direction from you one week from tonight prior to the hearing and
that way I'd have a better idea of what the appropriate testimony would be to
provide, what materials should accompany that, and so forth. And once again,
that budget hearing over at ACRD is on August 22"d, one week from tomorrow
night.
Zaremba: Mr. President.
Borton: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Just a comment. And, Matt, this is excellent work to not only analyze
but provide alternatives to a budget of a whole government agency that we hope
to influence but have actually no control over and for you to have analyzed it and
provided excellent suggestions, I think is just great. And one of the things that
concerns me is that ACHD has established and had in place for four or five years
now a system of prioritization of projects and Meridian has been a part of that
and their work plan, their Five Year Work Plan has been something that we've
participated in and agreed to. And it seems like even their own process is just
being thrown out because of the budget. What they have selected to drop out of
their budget, again, this is still a draft so I'm hoping that we can have some
influence on it but what appears to have been selected are the high priority
projects. Perhaps because they're expensive ones but that has happened in
prior years where they dropped an expensive priority project to enable them to do
five or six less expensive projects. And I, the scary thing about threatening
anything along Ten Mile is that we have another agency to worry about and that
is ITD. If ITD sees any of the Ten Mile preparation for the interchange slipping
they are justified in saying you guys aren't ready. The interchange is going to
slip. Because they have budget problems too and they're looking for places to
fiddle with their budget and I think it's important for the City of Meridian if we
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
August 14, 2007
Page 22 of 26
need to do some more study on what our further recommendation would be, that
would be one thing but I do feel it's important to have presence at their workshop
tomorrow and I'd be very comfortable with that being Matt if he's comfortable with
that but we need to wam them that we are taking objection to slipping an
extremely important project in and we need their help and they need our help in
deciding how else to deal with that. What else can slip instead? And there may
be more information. Information that needs to pass between our two staffs - -
ours and ACHD's, but I do think they need to be put on notice tomorrow that we
are objecting to the one thing has been selected and we are hoping to work
together to seek alternatives, which we hope to present before the real budget
hearing on August 22"d. So my personal opinion and my opinion from
participating in the Meridian Transportation Task Force and ACHD's Citizen
Advisory Committee is that Ten Mile is not the project that should slip. There are
too many other things regionally. This does not just impact Meridian. It impacts
the whole region and it's an extremely high priority project. I realize it's an easy
way to get $16 million out of their budget but I believe we need to send a strong
message that that particular choice is not the right choice. And help them find a
better choice.
Ellsworth: And, Mr. President, if I may. In conversations with ACHD staff while
the proposed budget indicates that the Ten Mile from Franklin-Cherry project
would delay until 2009, in fact, for programming reasons they've indicated that
it's more likely to be 2010 for that move to construction. So that's head's up, FYI
on the delay of that project.
Bird: That scares me.
De Weerd: Mr. President.
Borton: Madame Mayor.
De Weerd: I think there's probably a couple of messages that need to be sent.
You know, one, that we understand that there are some funding constraints that
they have but they can't keep doing this as a method to balance their budget,
continue to cut projects. They have to start taking a hard look at when are they
going to do be able to build an adequate and efficient system. And they're going
to have to take the political steps to do what it needs. What needs to be done to
have an adequate system. They seem to look at all the communities they want
to cut projects in to be their solution and they are the road authority. We are not.
They need to take the lead and do the things that need to be done to find
solutions other than just cut. I can tell you what, that this Council if we had a
similar situation, would not step away from their responsibility to find that
solution. And that would be the expectation from this City as our road
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
August 14, 2007
Page 23 of 26
department and the expectation of this citizen of my road department. So that's
a first point. When we discuss this at the Transportation Task Force I think first
and foremost we need to start moving traffic and we need to get rid of these four-
way stop sign intersections. And so at this point if we only have limited funds we
have to look at intersection improvements that are going to help achieve that.
We were at a meeting yesterday specifically on the Ten Mile interchange where
again ITD committed that they are on schedule, on task, and they are committed
to staying that way. With that said, they still have to get Phase, Round Three of
GARVEE passed to fund the construction. But they are very determined to move
that forward and that request and we will make sure every step of the way that
we are walking side-by-side with them as a partner and maybe pushing them
forward as we walk. But they did commit, both ACHD and ITD that a temporary
intersection improvement would be done at Ten Mile and Franklin Road because
they do recognize that there will be a secondary need once the construction on
184 is under way. And that is moving forward. They also will do a temporary
intersection light at Black Cat and Franklin. And they're looking similarly on other
Intersections in Canyon County so that you will have traffic flow on Franklin as a
two-lane road. They also talked, ACHD, on what kind of schedule that they can
commit to, making sure that the improvements are needed on that piece of Ten
Mile that would be parallel to the construction of the Ten Mile interchange. And
so there is some comfort there. We do need to put in our letter that the Overland
realignment has got to move forward. That is developer-funded and that can not
be delayed. Right now, even with Ten Mile interchange set aside there is a huge
safety issue and as Councilman Rountree and I talked earlier, we are fortunate
there hasn't been a fatality there to begin with. So that is not a funded project by
ACHD. It will be funded by the developer and we need to get that alignment
done. That's not even on this list but certain elements have to be emphasized
that those are absolutely critical to move forward on some of these transportation
improvements. The project on South Eagle Road and Victory is an absolute
must. At least the intersection. They gave some guarantees to us as it related to
the construction of our fire station down there. We can not move our fire and
emergency personnel and equipment through that intersection without certain
improvements. This is a life safety issue as well. So that one, we really need to
push on. What they gave us in remaining projects were two intersection
improvements. One was funded by a developer. So that left us with actually one
funded project. I'm song. I understand that they need to balance their budget
but we accommodate the valley's traffic and their responsibility is to help move
that traffic. And so we don't want to be the whole burden, to accept the whole
burden of balancing their budget and how we can put that in a letter to
emphasize that, we need to do that. But we need those intersection
improvements and at minimum the one at Victory and Eagle, if we can't do the
Ridenbaugh to Victory improvement then I guess that one can be delayed to
2009. As long as there're some assurances that what we do today doesn't then
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
August 14, 2007
Page 24 of 26
come back to bite us in 2009 because we're the only ones with projects because
we're the only ones who've moved into that. And we have some critical funded
projects in 2009 that are "have to" projects as well.
Ellsworth: Mr. President, again if I may, Madame Mayor, you bring up a good
point there because already based on a proposed 2008-2009 budget, they're
already anticipating an upward of $16 million shortfall again next year. In other
words, they're not solving the problem with anything's that proposed right now.
They're pushing it out until 2009.
Borton: Matt, you can convey my message and I'd be glad to go down and
convey it myself that no, this is not an acceptable proposal for a budget. We did
spend considerable time with ACRD yesterday. The Mayor has articulated the
kinds of things we talked about. We did get some concession in terms of
temporary intersection improvements. If I were to be project-specific at what
ought to be included in this budget or back into the budget, I think the Eagle-
Victory, Ridenbaugh to Victory, Eagle intersection, the Franklin-Ten Mile
intersection improvement, and interim signals and they actually indicated they
would put lanes and/or the ultimate signal location in at that location. And
Franklin-Black Cat interim. As far as Ten Mile-Franklin to Cherry I hate to see
that slip but ITD has said they will have right-of--way and plans ready if funding is
made available by the Idaho Legislature next legislative session. That project
could go to construction in fiscal year 2009, which would be the summer of 2008.
In order to phase the Ten Mile project with that, I could see it slipping out of 2008
but not beyond. And I'd want some guarantee from them that it will stay in the
program. Otherwise it needs to stay where it is. And that's just the tip of the
iceberg of what we need but I understand their funding issues and the Mayor's hit
it right on the head. They've got to face those.
Borton: Matt, does that give you enough guidance for tomorrow? At least
Councilman Rountree might be driving it in.
Ellsworth: I would welcome that, Mr. President, and I was, my initial thought is
that with the political nature of some of the comments involved, I'm happy to
relive those to the best of my ability but I'm not very accustomed to carrying
maybe the appropriate tone before another elected body. So like I said, I'd be
happy to plant the seed on these but if it's okay with you, before really tightening
the screws on official hearing testimony language I would, I suppose I request,
an opportunity to get together with Mr. Berg to decide on aPre-Council time slot
for next week, something along those lines, to get the exact wording back in front
of you. And like I said I will get the memo to ACHD staff this evening for
inclusion into tomorrow's workshop.
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
August 14, 2007
Page 25 of 26
Zaremba: Mr. President.
Borton: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I'm not sure it's entirely politics but my major ask is that they stick with
their existing priority system and not let the budget trump the priority system.
The projects that appear high on their priority list are the ones that they're cutting
and I'm not sure that's a political statement and they had a priority system and
the budget should not rearrange that if it trumps it and just throws the priority
system out the window. That would be my request and I don't know if that's
politics or not.
Rountree: Mr. President, Matt, what time is that session tomorrow?
Ellsworth: 10:30.
Rountree: At ACHD?
Ellsworth: Yes, sir.
De Weerd: Mr. President.
Borton: Madame Mayor.
De Weerd: I guess Gary can help with the tone of this discussion certainly so it
doesn't put Matt or Councilman Rountree on the spot although I don't think
Councilman Rountree will hold back. But I agree with Councilman Zaremba. It is
a discussion we had at the Task Force as well in that our frustration is that a tool
was developed specifically to identify road projects and that tool has to be used.
And that tool should really focus on safety, on volumes, and on congestion. And
that it what they told us this tool was supposed to help eliminate the politics and
prioritize the appropriate roadways that have the need. And we want them to
utilize the tools that they sold us on and that they should be planning and
prioritizing with.
Borton: We'll keep going on this one for many hours if need be but I think you've
gotten the information, I think some of the highlights and some help tomorrow to
convey these important points and then we'll come back again next week with an
update and plan of action for the hearing on the 22"d. That sound good?
Ellsworth: Mr. President, Members of the Council, yes it does. And I appreciate
your time.
• i
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
August 14, 2007
Page 26 of 26
De Weerd: We appreciate yours.
Borton: Thank you very much. Council members, that brings us to the end of
the regularly scheduled Pre-Council Meeting.
Rountree: Move to adjourn
Bird: Second.
Borton: Moved and seconded to adjourn. All those in favor say aye.
FOUR AYES. MOTION CARRIED.
De Weerd: To those of you in the audience, we apologize for the late start of our
regular agenda - -
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 7:34 P.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
APPROVED:
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TAMMY D EERD, MAYOR DATE APPROVED
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•
August 10, 2007
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING August 14, 2007
APPLICANT ITEM NO. 3
REQUEST Follow Upon LEED Program Proposal for New City Hall Building by Petra, Inc.
AGENCY COMMENTS
CITY CLERK:
CITY ENGINEER:
CITY PLANNING DIRECTOR:
CITY ATTORNEY
CITY POLICE DEPT:
CITY FIRE DEPT:
CITY BUILDING DEPT:
CITY WATER DEPT:
CITY SEWER DEPT:
CITY PARKS DEPT:
MERIDIAN SCHOOL DISTRICT:
ADA COUNTY HIGHWAY DISTRICT:
SANITARY SERVICE COMPANY
CENTRAL DISTRICT HEALTH:
NAMPA MERIDIAN IRRIGATION:
SETTLERS IRRIGATION:
IDAHO POWER:
US WEST:
INTERMOUNTAIN GAS:
MERIDIAN POST OFFICE:
See Pr®vious Item Packet
',~~,~ ~,
~~ e~`~ .
~, ~j-vi"
OTHER:
Contacted: Date: Phone:
Emailed: Staff Initials:
Materials Aresented at public meetings shall become properly of the City of Meridian.
August 10, 2007
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING AUgUSt 14, 2007
APPLICANT ITEM NO. ~ 4
REQUEST ®iscussion of Transportation Task Force Recommendation Regarding the
Draff FY2008-FY2~9 ACRD Capital Projects Budget by Mate Ellsworth
AGENCY
COMMENTS
CITY CLERK:
CITY ENGINEER:
CITY PLANNING DIRECTOR:
CITY ATTORNEY
CITY POLICE DEPT:
CITY FIRE DEPT:
CITY BUILDING DEPT:
CITY WATER DEPT:
CITY SEWER DEPT:
CITY PARKS DEPT:
MERIDIAN SCHOOL DISTRICT:
ADA COUNTY HIGHWAY DISTRICT:
SANITARY SERVICE COMPANY
CENTRAL DISTRICT HEALTH:
NAMPA MERIDIAN IRRIGATION:
SETTLERS IRRIGATION:
IDAHO POWER:
US WEST:
INTERMOUNTAIN GAS:
MERIDIAN POST OFFICE:
OTHER:
Contacted: Date: Phone:
Emailed: Staff Initials:
Materials presented at pubNc meetings shall become property of the City of Meddlan.