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Home My WebLink About2009 01-20 SpecialMeridian City Council Special Meeting Workshop January 20, 2009 A meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:20 p.m., Tuesday, January 20, 2009, by Council President Charlie Rountree. Members Present: Tammy de Weerd, Charlie Rountree, Keith Bird, and Brad Hoaglun. Others Present: Bill Nary, Jaycee Holman, Anna Canning, Caleb Hood, Keith Watts, Thomas Bany, Jeff Lavey, Scott Colaianni, Ron Anderson, Bruce Freckleton and Dean Willis. Item 1: Roll-call Attendance: Roll call. David Zaremba X Brad Hoaglun X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird X Mayor Tammy de Weerd Planning $ Zoning Commission -Roll-Call Attendance: Roll-call X Wendy Newton-Huckabay Tom O'Brien X Michael Rohm -Vice Chairman Joe Marshall X David Moe -Chairman Rountree: Good evening. I apologize for being tardy tonight, but let's get this meeting going. First item on the agenda is the roll call. Item 2: Adoption of the Agenda: Rountree: Next item on the agenda is the adoption of the agenda. Bird: Mr. President? Rountree: Mr. Bird. Bird: I move we adopt the agenda as published. Hoaglun: Second. Rountree: It's been moved and seconded to adopt the agenda. All those in favor? Motion passes. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT. Item 3: CONSENT AGENDA: Meridian City Council January 20, 2009 Page 2 of 50 A. Approve minutes of January 6, 2009 City Council Regular Meeting B. Task Order No. 0784 with Hydrologic for Framework and Ground Water Studies for $47,515.00 C. Award Bid and Contract with Cascade Pipeline Corp for 2008 Water System Flush Lines for $55,054.00 8< spending authority fora 10 % contingency of $5,505.00 Rountree: Next item Consent Agenda. Bird: Madam Mayor or -- Rountree: Go right ahead, Mr. Bird. Bird: Mr. Armstrong. Rountree: That's who. Bird: Mr. President. I move we approve the Consent Agenda and for the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to attest on all papers. Hoaglun: Second. Rountree: It's been moved and seconded to approve the Consent Agenda. All those in favor? Motion passes. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT. Item 4: COMMUNITY ITEMS/PRESENTATIONS: A. Presentation on Transportation Land Use Integration Plan (TLIP) Rountree: Next item on the agenda would be the community items and presentations. ACHD. Nary: Mr. President? Mr. President? Over here. Out of place. Mr. President, Members of the Council, Madam Mayor. There is no quorum for the Planning and Zoning Commission. So, Chairman Moe is aware of that, there isn't a quorum, so they aren't going to be able to convene their meeting, because of lack of quorum. They certainly can participate as any member of the public and listen to the presentation, but I Meridian City Council January 20, 2009 Page 3 of 50 wanted to make it clear on the record that they didn't have a quorum tonight, so their meeting can't get started, their meeting has to be cancelled. Bird: Thank you. Rountree: Very good. Lucas: I feel like I'm driving a complicated piece of equipment here. I don't know if I'm qualified. Madam Mayor, Members of the City Council and members of the Planning Commission, thank you for letting me come and represent ACHD this evening and give this presentation. We always appreciate your time and I will do my best to keep it as brief as possible. The way the presentation is set up I'd like it to be as interactive as possible and feel free to interrupt me at anytime if you have any questions and Ican -- I might be taking notes at times just to try to capture what you're saying, because as this is -- I will be presenting some -- some draft, you know, policies other things that we are here to really receive your input on and give you updates on and so we want to make sure at ACHD that we are getting all the information we can from -- from our partner agencies. With that said, the purpose of the workshop this evening is to -- is to provide context for the draft complete streets policy that has been circulated to this -- to this body and also to all of the jurisdictions within the county and soon will be circulated among wider -- it's gone to several stakeholder groups and will be circulated even wider than that. We are here to request comments from the city on this policy and briefly review some of the other TLIP products that are associated with this -- with this policy. And when I say TLIP, I'm referencing the Transportation Land Use Integration Plan that's been an ongoing effort for probably over a year and a half now, maybe longer. It's a pretty significant effort that we have been working on in partner with our other jurisdictions and we are doing our best to bring this to a close as soon as we can, but with any large project there is -- you know, the details that come up in that last ten percent are many and we are working through those right now. And we also would look to discuss a proposed adoption process in kind of a draft roll out schedule that we have put together regarding a lot of these products that I will be discussing -- discussing tonight. The complete streets policy and its relationship to TLIP, what it does is it clearly states ACHD's commitment to all users of the public right of way. It's a pretty broad policy document that, in essence, is just -- it's a form of saying that as we plan for transportation modes within the public right of way that we are going to do our best to plan for all the modes we can, whether it be transit, whether it be pedestrians, whether it be bicycles. And so it's our purpose to state that in a broad policy, so that as we make decisions that we always keeping that in the back of our minds, both as you make decisions and as the ACHD commission makes decisions. It provides a foundation and, really, a policy foundation for several other of the TLIP products, in which I'll discuss tonight and it will also, as I mentioned, hopefully -- and it will, if adopted, inform policy and project level decision. So, it will have the broad policy basis, but it will also affect level decisions. For example, deciding how wide a bike lane might be on a project that ACHD is doing or how wide the sidewalk needs to be and all those types of things that it will play into -- play into all of that. What I'm going to do now -- what I'm going to do now is I kind of break the complete streets policy down a little bit, is start with a guiding Meridian City Council January 20, 2009 Page 4 of 50 principal and, then, there is four major policy statements that are made and as I go through this if there is any comments or wording issues or things like that that you have, I would be glad to try and respond to those and take those down as we go through, so I can get your input core. The guiding principal -- and I'll just read it. It's not very long. Is streets, bridges and transit stops within Ada County should be designed, constructed, operated, and maintained so that pedestrians, bicyclists, transit riders, motorists and people with disabilities can travel safely and independently. And it's -- once again, it really speaks to trying -- trying to accommodate all modes -- all modes of transportation within -- within the public right of way. I'll pause after every statement just to make sure I capture all the comments. The first major policy statement is that bicycle and pedestrian ways should be established and new construction and reconstruction projects in all urbanized areas, unless one or more of the following conditions are met. That first one is if they are prohibited by law. The second one would be significant safety or other challenges exist. The third one is that the cost is excessively disproportionate to the -- to the proposed use or probably future use. And, then, where current and projected future populations are sparsely forecasted. Rountree: Justin, if I might interrupt. If you folks have any comments or questions, just -- would you interject, so I don't have to make sure I'm looking both ways. De Weerd: They would. Rountree: Well, I figured you would, but just -- so it's okay. Lucas: I can -- if you'd like, I can, as we go, update you on some of the comments we have received. Like on -- for example, on this first statement, some of the comments we have received thus far that were -- that were valid we think is the question of what does excessively disproportionate mean and maybe that's a little bit too vague. And where in Ada County is there a population that's sparsely forecasted. I mean so there is -- you know, there is things that we are looking at as we -- as we break down the language a little bit that we are -- that we are sensitive to and that's why we bring it to these meetings is to try to get those type of -- those kinds of comments. Rountree: The first bullet under your policy, I don't believe there is a law that prohibits bicycle use and pedestrian use. Lucas: Yeah. We looked at that pretty carefully. The only area where there is some gray area is the interstate highway system, which -- and as I have looked into it, I haven't found that and we -- that's one of the ones that we have received comments on several times that will probably have to be stricken, because it's just not accurate, so -- Rountree: That's not --that's correct. It's not accurate. Lucas: Thank you very much. The second major policy statement is in -- in rural areas paved shoulders should be included in all new construction and reconstruction projects on roadways used by more than 1,000 vehicles per day and on paved shoulders there Meridian City Council January Z0, 2009 Page 5 of 50 are safety and operational advantages for all road users in addition to providing a place for bicyclists and pedestrians. De Weerd: Mr. Chairman? Rountree: Madam Mayor. De Weerd: So, what do you mean rural areas? We really don't have rural areas, do we? Thus is just for Ada County Highway District; right? Lucas: Madam Mayor, correct. This is just for -- this is just for Ada County. One of the reasons we did include this -- this statement is projected there may not be -- in the future there may not be a lot of rural areas left in Ada County that's for sure. But what we do -- what we do have are in some areas -- for example, Swan Falls -- Swan Falls Road is probably the best example of this, where we actually have a project to widen the shoulder of that road to accommodate bicyclists and pedestrians. De Weerd: Really? Lucas: Yes. It's under construction I believe right now. I don't know how often you get down that way, but -- Bird: There is a lot of bicycles rode out to Swan Falls. De Weerd: You know -- Mr. President? Rountree: Madam Mayor. De Weerd: I don't want to be crass, but how does a project like that have a greater priority than the plethora of projects we have in the valley that have life safety issues -- I mean this might have a life safety issue, but I mean we are talking large numbers of vehicles and we are spending money putting in a shoulder. Lucas: Madam Mayor, it's a very valid concern and we certainly are sensitive. That specific project I mention is -- it received special funding through a specific grant for bicycle projects only and so it's something that was applied for and specifically had to be used on a scenic byway, which Swan Falls Road is. So, it's aunique -- it's a very unique project that doesn't have funding that would be considered for normal -- a normal project like you were referencing for roadway expansion or -- De Weerd: Okay. And I have no intent to kill the messenger or anything, so when they are questions they are really -- Lucas: No. It's a very valid question and -- you know, and I understand why -- why that would be asked, but -- and there may be a lot of things about the -- you know, the Meridian City Council January 20, 2009 Page 6 of 50 funding structure and things where there may be questions and so -- and I just try to clarify that specific example. De Weerd: I appreciate that. Thank you, Mr. President. Lucas: Were there any other comments on this one? The third policy statement is that all pedestrian facilities, including sidewalks, shared use paths, street crossings, including over and under crossings, pedestrian signal signs, transit facilities and all connections should be designed, constructed, operated, and maintained so that children and the elderly and people with disabilities have safe access. And this is just a statement in response to our -- you know, our responsibility to the public to provide access to all those types of facilities. The fourth statement is that the design and development of the transportation infrastructure should improve conditions for all likely users to the following steps. Plan projects for the long term and make -- you know, make decisions based on -- on good information. The second one. Coordinate with transit agencies to insure that transit services and facilities are reasonably accommodated within the street network. The third bullet. Consider enhancement, such as landscape medians and buffer areas, pedestrian lighting and on-street parking, new construction, and reconstruction projects. And I have the bullet -- the parenthesis that some elements of that may require financial partnership. Get material exceptions approved by the Commission and design facilities based on recognizable standards. De Weerd: Mr. President? Rountree: Madam Mayor. De Weerd: On these two bullets that say -some elements may require financial partnerships, are those defined somewhere? Lucas: Yeah. The document -- well, I can speak to probably one of those better than the other. When speaking to the transit agencies and how those financial partnerships are going to work, those are not as well defined, as will be most likely -- well, as will be the enhancements, such as landscape medians and other things like that. Those are going to be captured in what's been called the cost share policy. It's the ACHD cost share policy that is a document that will lay out, you know, what the responsibility would be of ACRD as a transportation jurisdiction and what the responsibility would be~for the city and county or developer, whoever it may be in a situation where there is enhancements beyond the normal that ACHD would usually do. De Weerd: Just -- follow-up? Rountree: Madam Mayor. De Weerd: In the on-street parking is -- what kind of incidence would that have some financial partnership requirements to? Meridian City Council January 20, 2009 Page 7 of 50 Lucas: It's a -- it's a valid question. I don't know if I can answer it to the extent you would like. In general, on-street parking is located within the right of way and is -- and historically has been a cost that has been borne by ACHD and I think that -- that is anticipated to continue in the future. It's -- it would probably be a case-by-case basis of how that would work and it would -- it should and will be more clearly defined in the -- in the cost share policy. But it's a good note that maybe it shouldn't be included here as a broad -- as a broad statement. De Weerd: You know -- and I guess I would also have that on pedestrian lighting. We know in subdivisions and projects the developer puts the lighting in the project, but on minor or major arterials ACHD wouldn't be looking for the cities to put in lighting. I mean we already pay for the operation of it, but not the installation of all the poles. Lucas: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council and Commission I think when it says pedestrian lighting it's specifically referring pedestrian. De Weerd: Okay. to esthetic lighting that would be solely for Lucas: That would be the intent of that statement, but I can clarify that. Hoaglun: Mr. President. This might be a good time, since we are talking about pedestrians and bicyclists -- Justin, what -- do you work with like our parks department on our pathways programs? Because we have some areas where they have to deviate from the -- the pathway to follow a street and they are looking for bicyclists to have wider sidewalks and different things like that. Is that something that's already -- you're plugged into our parks department on? Lucas: Mr. President, Madam Mayor, Members of the Commission and Council, yeah, we do -- we certainly do our best to coordinate with -- with the parks department, the planning department, on those issues. Right now, actually, it's another project I'm heavily involved with where we are working on the final draft of our bicycle master plan, which is a county wide plan that looks at those -- looks at those issues and those connection points and it's something we certainly -- we certainly do want to capture that, because although ACRD doesn't -- doesn't have jurisdiction over those off-street pathways or those, you know, pathways that go through some of the -- whether it be Meridian pathways or pathways from the neighborhoods, we certainly want to make sure that the connection points that need to happen happen, so that cyclists and pedestrians can get through safely. Sure. Hoaglun: Thank you. Lucas: That's the -- the end of the policy statements that -- that we had on the complete streets policy. And I really appreciate your input and we have received a lot of good input as we have brought this out and, you know, we want to make sure that when we bring these out sometimes it seems like they are in some final form, but they are Meridian City Council January 20, 2009 Page 8 of 50 certainly not, and it's going to take some revision to get this to a level that -- that our commission's comfortable with and, hopefully, that all of the jurisdictions are comfortable with. Before I -- I'm going to come back to a little bit about the complete streets policy, but I wanted to touch on some of the other TLIP products that we have just briefly, so that you can kind of see the whole picture as we -- as we prepare to bring this out for public involvement and other things this year. The product that is really directly related to the complete streets policy and really breaks it down in a lot more detail is called the livable streets design guide and what it does is it's a booklet of street cross sections -- there is several of them. I think there is over 20 -- that really link the -- the street design to the surrounding land use context and so rather than just building a standard ACRD arterial through any context, there would be a different street section that would be looked at for all the different land use context, whether it commercial, whether it be rural, whether it be residential. And so this booklet takes from the complete streets policy and tries to define in much more detail, you know, how those streets are going to actually look and how we can achieve the goals from the policy and it's -- it's a design guide. It will really -- hopefully over time, as we get it more refined, will replace a lot of the existing street sections that we have. But in its infancy here it will be presented as a guide that will really be used as projects are designed to -- to inform how they should -- how they should be used. The next -- the product that is really associated with that very closely, if I can get to it here. There we go. It's called the -- the typology map. The design guide contains all those 20 street typologies and what we have done over the last year or so is worked with -- with your staff and looked at your Comprehensive Plan and done a very iterative process to try and match those street typologies to the land use designations that -- that exist here in the City of Meridian, whether they exist now or whether they are planned through your Comprehensive Plan. And so it really -- it makes that link between the complete streets policy to actual, well, what are the streets going to look like, and, then, it goes all the way to designating, well, here is where we are going to put those streets and here is how they are going to -- here is how they are going to look. And so, for example, on the map there you can see this is the majority of the City of Meridian and, you know, all the different colors represent a different street section or a different -- different look. For example, the red is indicative of -- of commercial arterials. The purple color is a town center, so that kind of represents a more downtown look. And so we have gone to a lot of -- a lot of work working with your staff and trying to, you know, refine this and getting it to a level that -- that we are comfortable, hopefully, pretty soon to take it out to the public for review. And the other thing this map does is it also defines a proposed collector network for the -- for the city and, once again, through staff workshops we have been able to try and identify as many existing and proposed collectors that we could and include them on this map. Any specific questions .about that? We can certainly come back if you think of something. Some of the other products that I wanted to briefly touch on, as I mentioned, are that cost share policy, which is a document that's specifically designed to outline, you know, what -- on these street designs, we have the design guide and it shows a wide range of -- basically the -- between the curb dimensions are, you know, what ACHD is not going to modify, but outside the curb there is so much that can be done, either through development -- maybe a city partnership, you know, maybe there is some areas -- for example, on your Comprehensive Plan you Meridian City Council January 20, 2009 Page 9 of 50 have gateway corridors and in some of those areas there may be a desire to -- to really expand those or make them more esthetically pleasing than they otherwise might be. And so what the cost share policy is designed to do is to describe how the interaction will take place between ACHD and the city and define clearly what would be the financial responsibility of the highway district and what would be the financial responsibility of the city. And that -- that policy has been out for comment and, once again, staff has -- your staff has commented pretty extensively on it and so what's happening now with that is it's going to be going back before our -- our commission in a work session format on January 28th. So, it's moving along. And after that, once the commission speaks to it and looks at all the comments that have been received -- hopefully we will have another draft out for review that you can look at. I wish I could speak more to the detail, but I really don't want to go there without our commission looking at it, because I can't speak for them. I'm not really sure how they are going to respond to a lot of the comments that were -- that were given. The other thing is a -- is a major streets map, which is -- it's going to be a very useful tool I think both for the cities and for ACRD is it's a map of the entire county that will show the existing and planned number of lanes on all the arterials countywide. So, there will be a clear -- a clear planned vision for, you know, how wide are these streets going to be and how wide are we going to let them get, you know. And so we have also been working with your staff and in receiving comments on that and trying to, you know, nail down those comdors where there may be some discrepancy between ACHD's plan and what the city's vision is for that comdor and we are trying to resolve a lot of those -- a lot of those issues. De Weerd: Mr. President? Rountree: Madam Mayor. De Weerd: You know, I don't know, Justin, if it's regarding the major streets map or if it has something -- a question applicable to the livable street design guide, but at what point does your plan include recommended speed limits? I guess, you know, we just recently had a discussion with your commission on what are appropriate speed limits and how can some of this design provide maybe the streetscape buffers to enhance the safety, whether it's creating the planting strip or widening the sidewalk or -- I don't know what some of the topics or ideas would be, but it would be really helpful if you could start even looking at what are recommended speed limits for our different comdors and how to move traffic versus the pedestrian piece to it. So, has that been a consideration in one or the other of these areas? Lucas: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, it's an excellent question and, fortunately, I have a good answer for it. Yes, it was looked at very carefully in the livable streets design guide. I don't have a full set of pages here, but what the design guide does, as you can see -- actually it shows it on this table -- is under the -- it shows the graphic of how the street is laid out, but, then, there is a table which the first thing on there is actually design or target speed. Meridian City Council January 20, 2009 Page 10 of 50 De Weerd: Okay. Lucas: So, it really clearly defines what the design or target speed should be for -- for let's say a planned commercial arterial, which may be different than an arterial street that's designed to move more traffic, the speed would be higher. But in some commercial settings the speed is lower, because there may be more pedestrians on the street, there may be more bicycle activity. And so that is something that we -- we did our best to look at and all of those types of things -- as I say, it's a guide and so when you get into specific situations, the traffic engineers become involved and there is a lot of, you know, other things, but this will be a good starting point for all of those further discussions regarding that exact thing. De Weerd: Thank you. Lucas: I want to just -- you know, before -- I know I'm taking a lot of time here, if you could just indulge me for a little bit longer, I wanted, really, to get into a little bit of the adoptions strategy that -- this is -- that has come out of this. What we have done recently over the past -- it's probably been three months is we have established a staff level steering committee to inform the TLIP process and it contains members of all of the jurisdictions and -- and we know -- we have had a lot of good success with this committee as we have tried to decide, you know, well, how do we take a project like this with so many details and so much information out to the public, you know, how are we going to share this with people, how are we going to get input. And so what we did with that committee is we are talking about those issues and what we have come up with is a -- is, basically, kind of a two phased adoption strategy for -- for what I have been discussing tonight. In that first phase we envision the complete streets policy, the livable streets design guide, the typology slash collector map and the major streets map will go out -- all those things will go out for public comment, really, the last couple weeks -- well, it will probably be the first couple weeks in March. We are trying to get venues right now. So, we will be bringing all these documents out for public comment in March. After that period of time there will be some of the products that may be ready to move forward for -- for adoption. There may be some of them that need further work. And so I think this graph -- or this table shows it a little bit better. What we envision is once they go out for that public involvement, after that we see the complete streets policy, which I shared with you tonight, the livable streets design guide, which is that -- you know, the design with all the different cross sections in it and the costs share policy moving forward for our commission adoption in May of 2009, hopefully. So, those first three pieces, what they really do, the complete streets policy it provides that base. The livable streets design guide provides a good technical documents that we can immediately begin using when -- when designing streets and roads throughout the county. And, then, the cost share policy, this was on recommendation from the steering committee, was moved up into that first group, so that the cities would have a good idea of, well, what's this going to cost everybody. So, we are not really adopting anything until everyone has a -- hopefully, a good idea of the financial commitments necessary to make some of these things happen. And so that would be the first group of documents that would be ready to go hopefully for adoption in May or June of this year. The other Meridian City Council January 20, 2009 Page 11 of 50 documents, the big typology and collector map and that major streets map, what we envision there -- because they are so detailed and because we envision maybe a lot of public comment regarding those maps, it may take a little bit longer to get those adopted. And is there also, from the steering committee, a very strong -- a strong thought that we should really -- rather than having all these separate maps, combine those maps into one tool that can be used at the end of the day. We'd call it a master street map or something like that and that tool would be -- would be available for use -- obviously, within ACHD, but it also would be available for use for the local jurisdiction. But creating that and making a map that's interactive, that it would be based on all this information that we have received, we just envision it taking staff time and technical hours to make that happen and so there is -that's why that would probably lag a little bit behind the adoption of other documents, but we still anticipate adopting those -- those documents at the end of the summer or early fall of this year. That would be the strategy. De Weerd: Mr. President? Rountree: Madam Mayor. De Weerd: So, Justin, how far out does this major streets map look in terms of corridor width and out into the future? Lucas: It really is -- it contains -- the major streets map contains all of the existing arterials within the county, but it also -- it contains a lot of planned roadways. For example, if we have done a specific area plan, those would be incorporated into that and so they would show up on the map as dashed lines, because they are not existing, they are not even built, but we would, hopefully, define preservation needs for roadways that don't exist through this -- through this map. De Weerd: Well -- and I guess that -- that would be my question. Communities in Motion looked at the transportation corridors and what the anticipated width would be, but I don't think you're looking out long enough at 25 years. You take, for example, Idaho Power, they do their long term planning in 75 year increments and that gives you a better snapshot, per se, of what kind of width you're going to be looking at. It's helpful to the cities, so you're not putting a building in a future right of way that just adds to the future cost of that road improvement and so I guess in terms of when you bring it back or -- I'd like to have a better idea of what that -- that time frame, that timing picture or planning picture of what you're looking at and seeing when will it be revisited and can it be extended to a longer term vision. Lucas: Thank you very much, Madam Mayor. I can certainly include that in the comments and we can -- we can look at that. I know currently, just to provide the information, a lot of -- a lot of the planning that goes on both through COMPASS and through ACHD is restricted by some of the modeling that has to take place to project population out into the future and so all of those things have to work together to make those projections as accurate as possible and so you can -- you can see what it would Meridian City Council January 20, 2009 Page 12 of 50 look like if you built out the whole county. But I know might now that's something, even looking beyond 2030, which has been kind of the current benchmark, looking beyond that is something that -- it makes a lot of sense to see what's going to really happen out there, especially in those areas that haven't developed a lot and will certainly be developing in the future. So, thank you very much. We can do that. De Weerd: Just to follow up -- and in terms of Meridian, you know, our Comprehensive Plan, although it's -- it's a fluid document, I think that's what the whole goal was and adequate public facilities planning, was to try and look at what are today's needs and you look at all of our Comprehensive Plans and say, okay, these would be what the needed widths are and if someone came in with a Comprehensive Plan change or you have a planned community that needs to come in and it changes that corridor, that that impact, then, would be mitigated through, you know, that adequate public facilities thing. So, we can plan for full build out, but if that were to change, you have to figure out a way for that change to pay for the associated expenses in mitigation or something. Rountree: Is the typology map fiscally constrained or is that just a generalized wish list? Lucas: Madam Mayor, President Rountree, the typology map is not currently fiscally constrained, because what it -- what it does is it references those -- those street design guide items that are in the livable street design guide and there is really a wide range -- a wide array of possibilities that can happen within that. You know, there is street sections that show full landscaping and lot of amenities, whereas that may not be desirable fiscally for ACHD or the city to make streets like that everywhere. And so it's hard to know until we have those further discussions on -- and that's when it goes back to creating that kind of master street map. One of the discussions that needs to happen is where does the city really want to see that type of investment, both from ACHD and from the -- and from the city, where do we want to make those partnerships to make those corridors that are special, that stand out, because certainly I think everyone understands that it's almost impossible to do that everywhere, just because of the fiscal constraints that exist in any type of roadway funding or any type of long range planning. So, those discussions are what we are going to have to continue to have with staff and, obviously, with the -- with the City Council to determine where are we going to expend these resources and make these streets more -- you know, more beautiful than they are today. Rountree: Any further questions, comments? You're going to wrap. it up, then? Lucas: Yeah. This would be my last slide -here. Thank you once again. That -- just to give an idea of how some of these things may be adopted, I have been talking about adoption, but, obviously, the City Council has ways of adopting things and ACRD, as a separate elected body, has ways of adopting things. What we envision, at least for the complete streets policy, is that ACHD will go ahead and move forward with -- the Commission will go ahead with adoption of that policy and once it's been revised and changed. The -- what we are hoping to see, at least in this instance from the city, would be showing support for the policy through a Council resolution. We don't see the need Meridian City Council January 20, 2009 Page 13 of 50 for joint adoption, because some of the items may not -- may not have that -- that need. But what we would like, especially with this policy, is to ask the Council to -- once it's been revised take another look at and, hopefully, we could get a .show of support through a resolution. Some of the other products we may come and ask you for adoption of those -- of those products, because there may be some -- some real need to have joint adoption. Specific situation, we see a resolution as being -- being a good option, because, then, if it were to be modified or changed it could be referenced through your Comprehensive Plans or you could even include to choose elements, because it's really one of those documents that belongs -- which fit better within your Comprehensive Plan, rather than maybe a stand alone document, whereas at ACHD it probably works better as a stand alone document. So, there is just some of those issues. And so that would be our -- our request regarding that specific -- or specific document and I will be back or through -- through some sort of correspondence we can -- once the policy is done we can -- we can ask for that. Any comments on that or -- Moe: Mr. President? Rountree: Mr. Moe. Moe: Justin, I am just kind of curious as far as -- you're going to take this back to your commission, you're going to review that, and, then, you're going to come back and something will be shown at that point. Where I'm going, this excessive disapportionment, you know, for cost and whatnot, I'm kind of curious, are you going to have some criteria as to what that's going to entail? Because that's pretty wide ranging, if you ask me, and what might be in one spot, you go a mile down the road, could be a totally different thing if you're -- and it could be the same type of a project, but, yet, the cost could be a whole different matter at that point. So, I -- but that's going to be -- I'm very interested to see how the criteria is established for that. Thank you. Lucas: Thank you. Rountree: Further comments? Questions? Bird: I have none. Rountree: Thank you, Justin. Lucas: Thank you very much. De Weerd: Mr. President? Rountree: Madam Mayor. De Weerd: I guess just to answer Commissioner Moe's question, is that what will come back in the cost share policy and we will have an opportunity to -- to have comments and I -- I share your concern as to what some -- we wish we could turn back the clock, Meridian City Council January 20, 2009 Page 14 of 50 so at least before of lot of the development happened, so that a lot of this could be happening as development occurred. Unfortunately, you can't do that. B. Presentation on Transportation Land Use Integration Plan (TLIP) C. Update on City Hall Punch List /Wish List Rountree: Next item on the agenda, update on City Hall. Gene, are you going to do that? De Weerd: Mr. President, as Gene comes forward, I just want to let you know that our Mayor's Youth Advisory Council is in our Conference Room B and they are watching how local government does their business and so just -- they are utilizing the --away we can televise this over our monitors and so I just wanted to let you all know that the youth of today are watching you. Rountree: Keep that in mind, Gene. Bennett: Thank you, Chairman Rountree, Madam Mayor. Before we get into the report, on behalf of your project team, pleased to announce that the project has received an award and this is what it says. It's from the Intermountain Contractor and Intermountain Contractor has an award that goes through the projects every year and they award awards in Utah and Idaho. For Idaho the Meridian City Hall has received the award of merit for a public building over five million dollars. Congratulations. De Weerd: Thank you. Bennett: And with that I will tum it over to Tom to give a brief report on how things are. Coughlin: Madam Mayor, Mr. President, Council Members, Commission Members, these parking lot jobs with the changes that were made with the irrigation box and the addition of the Zamzow's railroad sidewalk, those two are currently under way. The projects should be completed the end of next week. It will be striped, weather permitting, next week. So, by the end of the week will be able to open it for public use. On the building side of it, there is about 22 punch list items on the exterior, including some remedial work that will have to be done on the fountain that will be done pending warmer weather. Warmer weather probably end of March, early April, at this stage to do that work. As far as any of the interior changes, we are currently in the building doing the addition of the emergency power to the system. Is there any questions on the progress of the work or -- De Weerd: Mr. President? Rountree: Madam Mayor. Meridian City Council January 20, 2009 Page 15 of 50 De Weerd: I guess we -- we have a punch list and we have a warranty list and I guess -- I believe that, Gene has been working with -- with Keith on putting time lines to those items, is that correct, Keith? Watts: Yes. Actually, Jack had told me Gene was going fo have that for tonight. Bennett: Your interior punch list items -- there is two items left. Both those items are on order and they will be here during the month of February. Your exterior punch list items Tom has already addressed and those are mainly paint and touch up items that will occur when the weather gets warm. The warranty list is changing daily. There are approximately two dozen items on the warranty list. The bulk of those that are on there right now will get finished up in January and February and we are working with Eric, your building maintenance man, as he takes that over and handles that work himself. Bird: Mr. President? Rountree: Mr. Bird. Bird: What are the two punch list items, Gene, remaining? Bennett: The two interior punch list items are all from the ABS Doors. As you notice as you come through the double doors there is a gap that's larger than normal. The reason that gap is there is that those doors came with a metal strip that the architect didn't care for and so it was deleted and at this point the architect is going back through and looking at those doors, which had recently been shimmed out and in our opinion the gap is still too wide and they are going to have to reorder the doors. The second item is that on one of the lady's rooms they are changing the door hardware from a privacy to a push-pull and that's on order and will be in here this next month. Bird: Okay. Thank you. Rountree: Further questions, comments? De Weerd: Mr. President? Rountree: Madam Mayor. De Weerd: I guess, you know, we have some doors that need locks on them and some that have -- I think they were punch list, some are warranty. When will we see all of those, Keith, to -- to have Council kind of make some determinations on what we need to do and whatnot? Watts: Jack had that list. I apologize, Madam Mayor. I talked to him at 5:00 o'clock today and I thought it was going to be presented and I will get with Jack in the morning -- or, actually, he's having surgery, so I believe it will be Friday when I see him again and I will distribute that to you personally. We have had our troubles with our door Meridian City Council January 20, 2009 Page 16 of 50 hardware getting -- getting the bidder to respond has been an issue. We have had some frustration there, but we are moving forward with it. I believe -- I had Jack call them this afternoon and I believe they showed up shortly after that. We gave them a rather urgent -- left them a rather urgent voice mail and they did show up today and start working on the doors. We still had issues with the front door out front with not unlocking this morning. It wouldn't unlock. So, they were out here working on it. I did see them out here about 4:00 o'clock working on it. They did get it fixed to working today. I can't tell you that it's fixed for good until I hear what ABS found on it. The doors are probably our main issue right now. Our door hardware. Getting the hardware here is still our main issue. Eric has actually looked into possibly finding a replacement manufacture of some of the door hardware that he could use in place of what was bid on the project, so that it might be easier to get. He's also putting a list together of parts that he would like to order and keep on -- in stock here for when we have issues. Not a lot of expensive stuff, but a couple of items that he is going to provide me a list with that. And as far as the actual warranty left and the -- where the punch list will be taken care of by Petra, the warrant list, Petra has agreed to stay involved at least through the end of February to be calling the vendors and coordinating the work. Starting March 1st Eric will be actually coordinating that work for warranty items that are left over, will remain, or come up -- additional things within this 12 month period. As Gene says, we are -- we are closing some things out and adding stuff all the time right now, so as we find things, I assume for the 12 months until October of this year, we will be discovering new items and working hard to get those taken care of before the warranty period expires. De Weerd: So, I guess, Keith, can we see that as an agenda item next week? Watts: Yes, Madam Mayor. De Weerd: And perhaps -- I know we have an operational directors meeting tomorrow, perhaps we need to have the punch list and warranty list available to the directors, so that -- I know they were going to do a walk through. Watts: Correct. The individual directors are going to make that appointment themselves when they -- when they have the time to do that. We e-mailed out all the punch lists for all the individual departments and asked them to make that appointment with Eric, Jack, and Ed to go over the three -- the three of them with the department directors to review their punch list. De Weerd: Okay. So, our directors know that? Nary: Do now. Watts: They should have got that a-mail Friday. De Weerd: Okay. Rountree: Further comments? Questions? Thanks, gentlemen. Meridian City Council January 20, 2009 Page 17 of 50 Bennett: Thank you. Item 5: DEPARTMENT REPORTS: A. Budgeted Contract Amendment No. 5 with AATronics for $750.00 B. Budgeted Contract Amendment No. 6 with SBI for $2,295.00 C. Budgeted Contract Amendment No. 1 E. Parking Lot with Sunshine Landscape for $7,797.00 D. Budgeted Contract Amendment No. 1 E. Parking Lot with Terra West for $19,364.00 E. Budgeted Contract Amendment No. 1 E. Parking Lot with TriState Electric for $2,343.00 F. Budgeted Contract Amendment No. 5 with TTE-Preconn for $3,396.00 Rountree: Next items on the agenda, Item 5, Department Reports. Keith, it looks like you have the first six. Watts: Yes, President Rountree. These are six changes to the City Hall building. These are owner requested and I can go through them one by one if you would like. Rountree: Not necessary. Watts: Okay. Rountree: No. Watts: Okay. Rountree: Any questions on any of these in particular of Keith? Bird: I have none. Rountree: Madam Mayor. Meridian City Council January 20, 2009 Page 18 of 50 Watts: Madam Mayor, President Rountree, these have been reviewed by both Eric and Ed as well and confirmed that these are what we -- the request that we had made and the work was done, actually, or is scheduled to be done. Rountree: So, you're requesting amendment approval of all six of these items -- Watts: All six of them. Correct, sir. Rountree: -- for action. Bird: Mr. President? Rountree: Mr. Bird. Bird: I move that we approve the contract amendments for AAtronics of 750 dollars. SBI for 2,295 dollars. Sunshine Landscape for 7,797 dollars. Terra West for 19,365 dollars. And TriState Electric, 2,343 dollars. And TTE-Preconn for 3,396 dollars. Hoaglun: Second. Rountree: It's been moved and seconded to approve the budget amendments for Items 5-A, B, C, D, E and F. All those in favor of the motion say aye. Opposed? Actually, we probably ought to have roll call on that. Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, absent; Hoaglun, yea. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT. Watts: Thank you. G. Mission, Vision, Values Update Rountree: Next item, Item G -- 5-G. Is that you, Josh? Grant: Everyone got a copy? I have been asked to provide a brief update -- I'll keep it brief -- of the process that's been undertaken by the city in revising the existing mission vision, city focus areas, and initiatives. In the past several months the Mayor and directors have engaged in discussions and some exercises in reviewing and determining if the existing mission vision, focus areas, and initiative effectively communicate the message and provide direction to departments in their strategic planning efforts. To the process, some minor modifications were found to be made and you will see them on page one of the handout provides the existing. Page two provides the revisions. And if you have. a few moments to look at those and notice that there weren't a lot of changes made, but the changes made do provide some clarity in the message and the departments are now taking the next step of taking this -- these revisions and folding them into and looking at their departmental strategic visioning and Meridian City Council January 20, 2009 Page 19 of 50 planning efforts and making any modifications to that that are necessary and, then, working collaboratively back with all departments in assuring consistency and connectivity to the overall city vision. I don't know if any of the directors have any comment to the process to add. Tom and Bill were closely involved in it on a subcommittee. And I think JefFs in the crowd there, so -- Chief Lavey as well. Rountree: Any one or all of you have the floor if you want to take the opportunity. Nary: Mr. President? Rountree: Bill. Nary: Mr. President, Members of the Council, Madam Mayor, I guess I can start. It probably looks like a fairly minor change in the -- in the mission statement, but, really, what the purpose was is when we met last year after our workshop with the directors and the Council Members, you recall we had a workshop over at the police department, we talked a lot about long term visioning and long-term strategic plans and the place to start we felt was to look at the mission and to make sure it still made sense and that it still had connection to the vision and the focus areas and so although it may seem like a fairly minor change, I think if you read it it doesn't -- it doesn't have a huge amount of change to the mission or the vision. There is some and, really, there was some -- a lot of discussion that went into it from all the departments and I think this is just a step and, really, I think the focus areas is where we ultimately felt that as the leadership team that -- where the city -- where the -- I guess more time was worthwhile to be spent in evaluating and making sure we were all on the same page with you, as the Council, as well as the Mayor and the leadership group, that we made sure we were in the same direction. So, it -- although, again, it may seem fairly minor, I think it was critical to at least have that discussion. It was a fairly lengthy, numerous discussion between both the subcommittee, as well as the directors in trying to wordsmith something that you're sure it made some sense to everybody, that we all felt a connection to and, then, I think our next step is to, then, work together as a group on the focus areas and bring those back to you. So, this is really a step in the process and we plan on having another discussion with you in the -- I guess not too distant future on some more of the particulars as we get to them. Rountree: Comments? Questions? Bill, you seem to be the one that's stepped up and Josh. If we do have comments as we go through this, can we direct them through the Mayor's office -- okay. So, I would recommend that if you do have comments or questions at this point or concerns or kudos in the next few days -- De Weerd: Kudos are always good. Rountree: Yeah. They are the best. But in the next few days if you could coordinate that through the Mayor's office. De Weerd: Yes, please. Meridian City Council January 20, 2009 Page 20 of 50 Grant: Thank you. Rountree: Thank you. De Weerd: Um -- Rountree: Madam Mayor. De Weerd: Mr. President. I guess, you know, it was a collaborative effort and the directors were really challenged. I'd hate to tell you how this mission thing went. Rountree: I can imagine. De Weerd: Oh, my God. I think everyone just were at the end of it ready to just say, okay, the old one was just fine. In fact, I believe they started saying that, because it was so painful. But we did have some come in and challenged a lot of what we had put together a couple years ago in terms of the vision mission and focus areas slash initiatives and ask some pretty tough questions and did bring in some perspective from the outside looking in, community members, they went out and got a sampling and so this -- this really resembles some minor changes, but really thought the thought that was part of that discussion into what you have in front of you. H. All Things Transportation Update Rountree: Very good. Any other comments? Next item on the agenda. Caleb, all things transportation. Hood: Thank you, Mr. President, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council and Commission. De Weerd: All about transportation. Hood: Don't let the agenda item deceive you. All things transportation was already presented to you in the packet, so I have given you my update, basically, in writing and I'm just going to take a couple of minutes of your time to update you on some things that have come to light over the past week or so since that memo dated January 15 was given to you in the packets. I have also provided the Planning and Zoning Commission members that are here also a copy of that memo. I do -- that memo contains, basically, updates on what I have been doing, basically, for the past two and a half months or so in my new position and you will see me on a fairly regular basis. I'm planning on about every other month or so coming and giving a similar memo to you on just where things are at in the process, so you're kind of in the loop on all things transportation. So, if you have any questions on that memo, I'll stand for any of those. Quickly, though, let me run through a couple of -- the transportation studies, roadway projects, and plans that are in the memo and just provide you with a couple of updates, it may answer some of Meridian City Council January 20, 2009 Page 21 of 50 your questions. First, East 3rd Street extension alignment study. Matt Ellsworth did make contact with a consultant there and by the end of February they expect to have some more information. They are doing some functional classification analysis to see if, in fact, the extension of East 3rd Street needs to be classified as an arterial or a collector roadway and, if so, maybe a modification is necessary to the 2030 functional street classification map. So, they are crunching the numbers now and, again, by the end of next month probably will have a little bit more concrete idea of what 3rd Street will look like, similarly to what Justin presented earlier. Again, number of lanes, is it a three lane, is it a five lane, is it a two lane, kind of that type of analysis. So, we will bring that back to you shortly. Fairview corridor study. Council Member Bird sits on the policy committee of that plan and he's aware of this, but last week we had a policy meeting and the policy committee decided to take a step backwards and do some more internal looking with how they are going to do the public out reach regarding Fairview Avenue, so that's been kind of put back on the consultant team to get the word out, if you will, on what's being discussed with Fairview Avenue before it's brought public to the rest of the general public, they are going to, again, try to touch base with the stakeholders and get some more input from them on what Fairview Avenue should be. So, that kind of put a little quirk in their time line of when they'd like to have Fairview Avenue corridor study complete, but I think it's a good thing and at the end of the day they are doing the right thing. But it does put a little bit of a crimp in the -- the original timeline. Some good news. Ten Mile interchange, some of you may have saw in the paper, ITD is going to go ahead and release the bonds for sale there to fund the construction of Ten Mile interchange later this month is what -- I think it was in the Statesman I read it they said. So, later this month they decided to go ahead and issue those bonds for sale. I think -- oh, one more. Sony. I've got four. The five year work plan. That will be an agenda topic at the alliance meeting this Thursday. After that meeting this Thursday ACHD will probably make its final tweaks and, then, next week have their final draft of the five year work plan. I'm not going to run through all of those projects. We've had a couple of meetings on that at this point, but if you're interested -- Ihaven't talked to the Mayor if she's going to be able to make that -- that meeting -- alliance meeting this week, but there are those four projects that we really want -- pressed on ACHD to make sure they keep moving forward. So, I'm continuing to work with them and we will see what we can do. We are trying to get every -- every project in Meridian we can on the -- in the hopper ready to go, but it's -- certainly work is not done, but I just wanted to give you a status update of where that is in process and with that I will stand for any questions you have. Rountree: Questions for Caleb? De Weerd: Mr. President? Rountree: Madam Mayor. De Weerd: I guess just to answer Caleb's question, yes, I plan on going. Meridian City Council January 20, 2009 Page 22 of 50 Hoaglun: Mr. President? Question, Caleb, on East 3rd Street extension alignment study. Talked about the qualitative analysis coming in the next few weeks and, then, you'd present the COMPASS results to the Council. Is it going to be a long time frame after that or is it -- what's your anticipation of time frame for presentation? Hood: Mr. President, Councilman Hoaglun, maybe I'd ask a question before I try to answer that. Are you curious about when 3rd Street would be constructed or when it -- Hoaglun: No. Just when you're coming forward, Mr. President and Caleb, with -- with their findings of the COMPASS results. Hood: Oh. We plan to do that right away. I mean -- so, end of February, first part of March, shortly after we know what the analysis is coming back as, we will certainly share that with you all and decide what the best course of action is to pursue to actual construction of it or change in classification map, so -- Hoaglun: Mr. President, if Caleb does have insight into when it's going to be constructed and what it is designed as, feel free to share it, we'd love to know, so -- Hood: Some of that may be evident through the cost share policy. ACHD may be asking us to pay for it, so we will see what happens there. De Weerd: Mr. President? Rountree: Best not ask. Madam Mayor. De Weerd: I guess I was going to offer Caleb the opportunity to go in my place to the growth alliance if he would so desire. Really, my question is -- I know we have had discussion about the concern of the Fairview -Cherry plan and the lack of coordination between 3rd Street, Main Street, and Meridian and how all of those intersections are going to work together. How do you feel is the best way to approach that? Do we need to write a letter to request that those specifically are coordinated as part of the plan or -- Iguess Iwould be looking for any of your suggestions. Hood: Mr. President, Madam Mayor, I think I understand your question. Again, though, almost similar to my earlier question we talk about how they will coordinate the timing of construction of those things or just are they -- besides talking to each other on what design will look like and making sure that you have 3rd Street intersecting Fairview and they understanding that Fairview is going to be either a five or seven lane roadway with center medians or whatever, that there is project team level coordination. De Weerd: Team level coordination. Hood: That's kind of what I thought. And we have had those discussions, either myself or Matt serves on the Fairview Avenue team, East 3rd Street team, or the split corridor team and so we are represented at each one of those and make sure that there is some Meridian City Council January 20, 2009 Page 23 of 50 of that coordination. Similarly, in ACHD's design and planning and programming team, they seem to have some pretty good internal discussions there with their design folks. At least from my experience where some of it seems to get lost is when you bring in right of way folks and development folks and the right hand may not know what the left hand is doing then, but I think a lot of our issues are -- are already covered, because we are beating that drum. Certainly a letter wouldn't hurt anything. I don't know how much it would help, though, because, again, Matt and I are there first person, making sure that those things -- those types of things are considered when their -- when these plans or designs are being developed. De Weerd: I guess I would have a continued concern, even though you and Matt are riding herd on it, that because they are three separate projects, that that coordination has a greater propensity to slip through and so it -- and maybe this needs to be a joint meeting discussion that we ask for next meeting on -- for an update on those three projects and how the coordination of -- because I mean the coordination of those three will make or break how that whole area functions. Hood: Mr. President, Madam Mayor, just to follow up on that thought. With the timing of all three of those projects certainly none of them are going to be constructed or moving too far in design. So, I think another -- we just had our quarterly meeting with them, but I think even another three month delay or talking about that in another three months with ACHD commissioners, certainly we haven't missed the boat on making sure that that is in the forefront of their minds that all three of these projects are coordinated simultaneously, so I will -- I have made a note and I will add it to that agenda, since I ask for agenda items for that joint meeting. So, I've got a note and I will add it to that. De Weerd: Thank you. Bird: Madam Mayor -- or Mr. President? Rountree: Mr. Bird. Bird: On that subject, Mayor, they -- we will be having Fairview meetings -- we have not even -- on the Fairview Avenue we haven't discussed getting into Meridian yet into that area. So, like Caleb said, we kind of took a -- two steps back, but we figure it will get us about five steps forward when we get done and so we will make sure that that is all coordinated through the Fairview plan and we need -- we need to stay on top of it, because it is very important to our north end of town. Rountree: Any other comments, questions, on transportation? I'd just shed a little light on the GARVEE bonding. We should know by the end of the week if this sale has been successful. They were put out in the retail market I believe today. If they are not successful this week, I believe there will be an attempt next week. Hopefully, the market will rebound a little bit after today and there might be some interest. So, we should know Friday if the bonds were sold. Meridian City Council January 20, 2009 Page 24 of 50 Bird: Do they have a minimum, Charlie, that they have to - I. SWAC Public Outreach Plan Rountree: Next item on the agenda is the SWAC public outreach plan. Bill. Nary: Mr. President, Members of the Council, Madam Mayor. This is just a quick report. At our last meeting the SWAC did move to go forward with the plan to move towards automated collection starting in October of 2009. We are working as a group with SSC. Obviously, the first thing that we -- before we educate the public we also have to come up with some reasonable idea of what a fee schedule would look like and although we don't -- may not have particular fees, because some of that's driven by the landfill's cost, we felt it was imperative to be able to educate the public on both the change, as well as the necessity for the change, as well as the cost that it may be to them. So, Mr. Sedlacek wasn't going to be here tonight, because he wanted -- he knew we were just going to report that we were still moving forward. The plan is to bring something back to you in the early part of the spring, so within the next two months. As we briefly discussed when the presentation was made back in November -- or December by SSC, obviously, there is a point in time. where the SSC is looking for a recommendation from the Solid Waste Advisory Committee, as well as a -- I guess a going forward approval from the Council on this program, so they can, then, make the investment on the number of vehicles that are going to be necessary to switch to this system and what it's going to take. But the intent is to bring a full plan back to you with some -- I guess some timeline as to when these public presentations are going to need to be made, how that's going to look, what the public type of outreach is going to be, so that you can see that. So, I would anticipate that in the next couple of weeks -- or next couple of months. Rountree: Thank you. Bird: Mr. President? Rountree: Mr. Bird. Bird: Bill, we are staying on the same program, then, until at least October; am I right? Nary: Yes. Absolutely, Council Member Bird. There is no changes until then. What -- in fact, we discussed that a little bit, is how would we both educate folks and make the transition and at least in SSC's studying of this issue in many other communities, they have done a lot of pre-education, but the real switch is about 40 -- between 45 days to 30 days prior to the actual switch, because, really, it's trying to get people sort of figuring what they are going to need and what the costs are and, again, that's a relationship on the cost issue, but -- so that's why we pushed October out as the date, because that's, really, the time period where we could get the most I guess information out. That's when the normal time of transition comes for SSC and the rates. That's when the rates Meridian City Council January 20, 2009 Page 25 of 50 to the landfill have been changing is sometime in the fall. So, yeah, up until October nothing's planned on changing. Bird: Thank you. J. Planning Department Strategic Focus Discussion Rountree: Further questions? Next item on the agenda is the Planning Department's strategic focus discussion. Anna. Canning: President Rountree, Madam Mayor, Council Members -- and also we have the pleasure of having our three planning commissioners here to hear this discussion tonight, so -- or three of the five, so I think that's wonderful that you all get to hear this discussion as well tonight. This is the first in a series of workshops for the Council. You may recall from your strategic planning workshop last April you asked that each department come back to you with ideas on how they would implement the strategic focus areas and initiatives. Well, we are back. So, I am the first, because -- I volunteered to go first, because you all know a lot of what my department does, just by virtue of us being here week after week. So, I thought that I would kind of pony up and take the first shot at this. So, you may see the format change over time, depending on what you find as most effective. Throughout my presentation tonight I will explain where I'm headed with regard to meeting the focus area initiatives and at the end I will ask for your feedback and comments on the course I have kind of set. And unlike some city activities, in planning it's never too late for a mid course correction, so I will welcome your comments and direction particularly at the end here. I thought it was important to start with this slide and this is -- may look familiar. Bruce and I used it in the budget presentation this year for the development services fund. It highlights the many functions of services that we provide to support development in the city. It's not all of what we do, but it highlights those functions. At the request of the Public Works Department, Josh Grant recently conducted a survey of the development community for their comments on our review process and the comments were generally positive, but we did uncover a number of items to work on and the common theme throughout the comments was communication. So, I was looking at this diagram that we had in the budget and I started thinking about how we go about communicating with one another during the review and construction of a development proposal. This is what I came up with. Rountree: Where is the spider? Canning: I mean the good thing it shows we really do talk to one another. The problem is we just don't know when or what was said and I think last week and the week before, same project, we had a great example of how a developer took advantage of the situation. So, one of the big strategic initiatives for the Building and Planning Departments are to communicate more efficiently and effectively. This is what we have proposed and I think you have heard this before. We have talked about having a single Meridian City Council January 20, 2009 Page 26 of 50 point of contact for the developer within each department and, then, those individuals communicate with one another and with our economic development folks, both Aspireon and MDC. So, restructuring our departments was key to our efforts, but we are also working on some other communication tools. These all were brought about from the survey that Josh conducted. So, we are working on detailed standard operating procedures, which provide great training tools for new staff and also improved consistency within our department processes. And, then, more specifically some flow charts that diagram -- diagram those procedures. I think these are really key to understanding where different organizations or different individuals have an opportunity to provide input and it's also a way of kind of shopping it around and seeking additional partnerships. We -- ACHD is asking us for exactly one of these kind of flow charts, so that they can understand our development review process to know where it's most appropriate for them to provide that input. Another item that was raised was working closer with Council. Now, we are not quite sure exactly what that means, but I have shifted the planning staff over to -- you've started seeing them at your Council hearings to present the more complex projects and this was, one, to provide more accurate information during the hearing procedures, which was a comment made during the survey, and also for them just to sit through some of the Council hearings and better understand Council priorities. I'm going to address the other planning related concepts brought up in the survey in the second half of my presentation, which is coming right up. And I know that Bruce will present others during his workshop time with you. So, this is just kind of a smattering of those related to communication. Now, we are to the second half of my program, so these are the focus areas that Josh just presented. Economic excellence, services meet demand, strategic growth, stewardship of the public trust, and organizational excellence. And to remind you, the strategic focus areas are crafted such that at least one initiative under each focus area would apply to each department. So, there is no silos. However, not all initiatives would apply for all departments. So, for the Planning Department I'm going. to go through each focus area, highlight the initiative that pertains to planning and provide my ideas on new processes and/or programs to better meet that initiative. So, our first focus area is economic excellence and the initiative that most applies is to first apply the economic opportunities within the Comprehensive Plan. Kind of hard for anybody else to have to claim accountability for that one, so this one's all ours and we are looking at a couple different things. One of the big kind of new ideas we are looking at is a way to integrate profitable agricultural uses within the urban fabric, so that agriculture doesn't just sit there as land waiting to be urbanized, it's a real viable, profitable use within the plan. There are double benefits of economic development and preserving some of our cultural heritage. Other communities and organizations are very interested in the outcome of this effort and I think they are kind of ready to jump on the band wagon if it looks like it's going to work. Pete Friedman just had a meeting with Ada County today and they are very interested in developing planned community provisions inside areas of city impact and this might be one of the tools we use in achieving this profitable agriculture within the urban fabric. We will also integrate the other business districts into the Comprehensive Plan. The next focus area is strategic growth and the primary initiative there is be responsive, innovative, and opportunistic in planning for growth and plan for infrastructure needs. What I'd like to do is restructure the Comp Plan around these strategic initiatives. I think Meridian City Council January 20, 2009 Page 27 of 50 it gives more weight to the strategic initiatives. I think it kind of -- or the focus areas. think it gives us a way of telling the story completely, because they are tied together or our review of our staff, our Comp Plan, everything is tied back to those focus areas and the mission vision and values, I think it would also give us a great way to incorporate some new ideas into our Comp Plan without changing it significantly. Those ideas would be efficiencies, economic development, infrastructure development, water conservation, rails with trails idea, and, then, kind of leaving the architecture of the plan open the way it's put together, so that we can add the census update from 2010. I'm not saying we are going to wait until 2010 to do this, I just want to leave it in a structure such that I can fold those new census numbers in. And I also want to work more with MDC. Now, I'm still kind of exploring how best to do that. The Planning Department used to do a -lot for MDC and, then, as they kind of got their feet, we did less and I think perhaps it's time to try and help them more -- at least integrate more of what they do into what we do. I'm still exploring that idea. The next focus area is services meet demand and in particular meet the current demand while preparing for future needs. Follow up with tools to meet those demands. And, really, now it's time to plan for our future. We have got some time. We are not overwhelmed by 5,000 single family lots per year recently. So, the Comprehensive Plan restructure is one of those items I'd like to do and, then, also integrating economic development into the plan. We are going to start to get a little redundant here, so I will go faster, so I apologize, but a number of these things I want to do fall under different focus areas. From the surveys that Josh conducted they also wanted us to retook at standards and ordinances and we are continually doing that. We always have a list of updates to do and kind of get one done and shuffle that through and start on the next. So, we are constantly trying to improve our code for clarity and usability. Also working on the new enforcement communication tool. I think I should have this up and running quite soon. We started involving a lot more people in the enforcement discussions. It was a good communication starter. We all talked to one another, but we found that we weren't -- there was too many of us at the meetings to communicate effectively. They just got too big. So, we are going to look at kind of a case management system. And I think this is the final one. Organizational excellence. No. Second to the last. Sony. And the first initiative I'd like to talk about is using information technology to enhance staffs ability to respond efficiently and effectively. Some of the things from the survey were the unified tracking data base and, then, use CIF more and in more departments. I'd also like to work on the clerk's more with e-filing, just creating less paper file, getting those electronic copies down and getting rid of some of the 15 file cabinets I have in my offce is a goal. And working on developing concise and clear conditions of approval, such that, you know, as developers come in for their approvals they understand what they need to do, who needs to do it, and when it needs to be done. The second initiative under organizational excellence is positioning the city to achieve strategic growth and maintain quality of service and, again, redirecting staff priorities to work on these projects I'm talking about tonight. We are also looking at -- to fully utilize our online data base and to position the city for energy efficiency grants. We let a small contract out for HDR to help us get the materials together in the event that the feds provide an energy efficiency grant. That may get folded in with some of the more incentive programs that are being talked about recently. We won't know until it's -- the final version is released, but we are positioning Meridian City Council January 20, 2009 Page 28 of 50 ourselves to apply for those grants. And, finally, through the public trust demonstrate financial responsibility, encourage fiscal conservatism. And, again, these concepts of energy efficiency, water conservation, what they really mean are doing more with less and less in this case means less money as well. So, we not only had a budget from the planning department this year, but we are also trying to save money for the city in other ways. So, this is the summary of those projects kind of lumped together as best I could. We can come back to these when you have comments and -- well, that's what I'd like to do is come back to these in just a second when we have comments. I just wanted to wrap up first and say, you know, our present reality is that development has slowed down a lot and -- but we are not just about accommodating development. I wanted to make it clear. We are proactively anticipating and guiding growth and we are always in the process of preparing improved standards and processes. So, we are putting the plans and tools in place to create lasting quality developments that will just sustain the city for decades to come. That's the end of my presentation, but I will go back up to the summary of projects and this is where I'd like your input if there are things that you feel are wrong for me to be heading down that road or other things you'd like to see on this, now would be the time to let me know. Can you read those from -- you have your screens, don't you. Rountree: Yeah. Any instantaneous comments that we have for Anna? I guess my first reaction, Anna, is there is a lot of good things in the list. I would like to see some priority assigned to them. Canning: Okay. Rountree: And I think there is some things that in my mind really stand out as it relates to economic development and incorporating that into the Comp Plan. And I'm sure I could apply numbers to all of these, but I'm not going to sit here and do it right now. I don't know about the rest of the Council. Bird: Mr. President? Rountree: Mr. Bird. Bird: I think it's very good, Anna. Two things I would request. Can you hard copy this for me? Canning: Sure thing. Bird: So I can look it over better. Then, I'd like to -- I'd like to see a copy of the survey that Josh did, if possible. Hard copy. I don't know if the other Councilmen would like to see it. I'd be very interested. I -- this is a very, very good presentation and we know that we got thrown in -- you haven't had time from '94 to 2006 to look at anything like this and now we do have time, so we can be prepared if and when we get hit again. You got some very good ideas and I'm like Charlie, I could probably sit here and put Meridian City Council January 20, 2009 Page 29 of 50 some priority numbers to them, but I'd sooner look it over and stuff, but I loved your presentation. You did a nice job. Canning: Thank you. And we can provide that copy of the survey results from Josh. We debated about what Charlie was just saying this week, we were debating about how to present that or if to present it, so we are happy to provide those copies. If you would like us to do a workshop presentation on that, we are happy to do that as well. But I think you will find as you read through the document it's pretty self-explanatory. Bird: I was going to say if we need a workshop, I'll come see you after I read it Canning: Okay. Rountree: A comment from Councilman Bird's comment about now is the time to do some of this stuff. I can certainly reflect back and remember when we had to take a moratorium and sit back and hurriedly try to get a handle on a lot of these things a number of years ago when we were looking at double digit growth. We don't have that growth pushing us, but in a way it's somewhat of a moratorium again and we have an opportunity now to do some of these good things with -- with the process procedure, customer service, Comp Plan, some of the things I think we have been wanting to do, but certainly haven't had an opportunity or the resources to do. P&Z Commissioners, if you have some thoughts. Mike? Rohm: I do, Mr. President. Anna, I think you did a great job with this presentation and as I look through it, all of these bullet items are very interesting, but there is also bullet items under the bullets that isn't part of the PowerPoint itself in your notes and as Councilman Bird mentioned, he'd like to have a copy of -- hard copy of it, I'd like to have an electronic copy of it, because that includes the notes that go with it and for me it's the notes that make the substance more than the bullets themselves and so from my perspective my assessment of the presentation as a whole gets more meat to it if we see that thought behind some of those bullet items. That's end of comment. Rountree: Thank you. Any other comments? Canning: Mr. President? I'm happy to provide that copy, but I only really have notes of the first few slides, just so you're warned. Rountree: Very good. Rohm: Anyway, it was a great presentation. Thank you. Canning: Thank you. Rountree: Thank you, Anna. Good job. Bird: Very good, Anna. Meridian City Council January 20, 2009 Page 30 of 50 Canning: Is there -- I'm -- pardon me. President Rountree, Madam Mayor, Councilmen, is there direction for the other directors as they come forward to you as their -- they might benefit from having your thoughts on how you want to structure these conversations? Prioritize came out in the discussion and probably some advanced presentation of -- or advanced warning of the presentation would have helped as well. Are there other items that you would like to see? Rountree: I think both of those are probably valid points and observations, Anna. I would say probably to the directors that they sit down with their liaisons before they make these presentations and run through them with their liaison and make sure that at least whomever is up here can also be attune to what it is the department director's presenting, so you can have some clarification from the Council's -- the liaison's perspective. But other than that, I thought the presentation was clean. It's succinct. It's to the point. It addresses the strategic areas. And it, actually, does identify how things are put -- the other thing you can put on some of these is what's the outcome, what is it we are trying to accomplish. Instead of counting widgets, having quality widgets. Canning: Thank you, President Rountree. And point well taken and I apologize, Council Member Bird, for not getting this to you sooner. Bird: You're fine. Canning: I finished it about ten minutes ago, just so you know. Bird: You did such a nice job that it didn't bother me at all. Canning: Okay. Item 6: CITY ORDINANCE/POLICY REVIEW: A. City Parking Ordinance and Parking Enforcement Update Rountree: Very good. Again, thank you. And look forward to the rest of these. I was neglect, because I was late, welcoming the Planning and Zoning Commissioners here this evening, but welcome. We have come to a point in time in the meeting where you may not be interested in staying, but I would certainly encourage you to if you wish, but don't feel obliged to hear the next two items on the agenda if you have got things you want to do. Having said that, again, welcome and I appreciate you taking the time to be here. Next item is 6-A, city parking ordinances endorsement. Bill. Nary: Mr. President -- thank you Mr. President Members of the Council Madam Mayor. I have a very short report. You have an item in your packet from Mrs. Kane from my staff, really just an update on the last issue that we discussed on the parking ordinance, which was the enforcement portion in regards to scofflaw type of Meridian City Council January 20, 2009 Page 31 of 50 arrangement. We looked at a couple different options. The city of Boise uses towing for scoff laws when they build up a certain amount of either outstanding citations or an outstanding amount of fines, the parking enforcement has the ability to contact their towing company that's under contract and when they find the vehicles on the street they tow them and they find that to be a hundred percent successful in getting the rest of the fines collected, because the fines have to be paid prior to the cars being released. We did also look at a couple of other cities. The city of Ketchum and the city of Moscow and they use car booting as a method to collect their unpaid fines. Both of them also found it to be very successful because, again, before the boot could be released the fine had to be paid. Both of those -- or all three of those cities have enacted their ordinances in different fashions. Some have put them in ordinance, some have created them by policy for scoff laws. But none of them use it for anything other than a build up of fines and outstanding citations. So, it's our belief and our recommendation that we have the ability to go forward with what's in the packet for you today for parking. The police department is ready to move forward as well and code enforcement is also on board to be a part of that and we are also looking at part of the budget to hiring a code enforce person that would predominately work on parking issues. So, my recommendation is that if you are comfortable with it, we can bring the ordinance forward on the 27th for first reading to see what type of response from the public we get. I think we have tried as every way we could to incorporate all of the issues and concerns that we have had regarding parking in various fashions throughout the city, whether it's in parks or on the street. So, I think we have tried to be as comprehensive as we could. I think we may be having a discussion with you at some point in the future that if there is a problem with scoff laws of people not paying citations, that we may look at some method, but I don't know that that method needs to be in place today before we initiate an ordinance. I think it may be something we may be looking at this year if we find that there are a number of people not paying citations and not going forward to court or not addressing them properly, then, we may be looking at some other method. But rather than hold this up further just to figure out a method that may or may not work for us at the moment, we felt it was appropriate to recommend that we go forward with the first reading. Rountree: Any comments? I agree, Bill. It's been a long time coming. Let's move it forward. Hoaglun: Mr. President? I just had a question for Mr. Nary. Under 7-2-6, the parking on public property, other than streets and alleys, my question was I got to thinking that probably would pertain to our city parks and I got to thinking about some events that are held in our parks are longer than duration of two hours, especially when volunteers are involved and I doubt they would be going out there looking for people to -- to hit, but, you know, volunteers -- I was thinking at Bear Creek where they have the Easter egg hunt, volunteers are there for four or five hours at a time, they are parked, I don't think we are going to be -- they are going to be moving their vehicles. How does that work? Is there a way to -- is that just one of those things where the enforcers would know that event's going on, it's not going to be an issue -- issue for them at the time? Meridian City Council January 20, 2009 Page 32 of 50 Nary: Mr. President, Council Members, Council Member Hoaglun, yeah, Ithink --Ithink the first exception to that probably would allow that, because there was talk about whether there was a permit or a policy that would allow that type of activity. So, I mean really the enforcement on the -- on the park property is going to be handled by city personnel. So, they do have the ability to choose when -- because they have the discretion to issue citations, they have the ability to allow that based on the activities or events. Really, you know, in those ones we are not usually as concemed about people parking in the park as we are about parking on the streets adjacent to the park. That's when the neighbors usually are more concemed that there is no turnover and people are parked there for four or five hours and so trying to keep folks out of that. I would say at least one of the recommendations Ithink we will be bringing you at the first reading is we want some introductory period before actual implementation, because we do want opportunity time -- logistically, one, the police have to order citations, that takes a little bit of time to get those in, so there is, obviously, some run up time. But we also want an opportunity to warn folks. We want people to know that rules may have changed, they may not be what they used to be, so giving warnings is -- is our first way to educate folks as well, so that they know there are changes to what's been done, but we have the ability to -- to, I guess, exercise greater enforcement in the circumstances. If appropriate, we may -- we certainly could look at whether or not we want to give, you know, specific authority to the park director on whether or not this is an activity in the park that we have granted a permit, like a large activity say at Storey Park, we are not going to enforce parking, we just want to make sure we provide notice to folks. What we are trying to guard against is the more routine situation where somebody parks a camper in the park and doesn't move it for three days and there is no activity necessarily associated with that, they just don't intend to move. So, we are trying to keep up those types of things and certainly not trying to dissuade the types of things you're talking about. Hoaglun: Thanks. Rountree: Any other comments? Bird: I have none. Rountree: Everybody in agreement let's move this thing out? Okay. Bird: Yeah. I have no problem with it. Rountree: Okay. Let's go. Nary: Thank you. B. Discussion of Clerk's Fee Schedule Rountree: And the next item. Meridian City Council January 20, 2009 Page 33 of 50 Holman: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, what we have before you tonight is the first phase of our process of reworking the fees that are charged in the clerk's office for the different permits and licenses. This has been a work in progress that started around the time that we enacted the temporary use ordinance, which has been close to a year now, not quite yet. It's been a lot of work on Emily Kane's part in the legal department. Nancy Radford, myself, and the other various departments that have time that's invested in these permits and licensing. So, what we have attempted to do is actually put a dollar value to the true cost of time and materials that go along with these permits and rework some of the fees that we currently have in the clerk's office. We don't actually have what I can see as a set fee schedule, we have in-text references to fees in our ordinance, but what we'd like to do is adopt an actual fee schedule which will also include_the temporary use permits and the different variations that we have. Nancy has a schedule that's a little bit easier to see than what you have scanned into laser fiche. I opened it and thought, no, I can't read it either. So, she's going to hand those out to you. Bird: Thank you, Nancy. Holman: We originally met soon after the temporary use ordinance was approved and tried to come up with the amount of time that we thought that each department spent as these licenses and permits, the check-off process goes through. We ended up reworking it a little bit a couple weeks ago as Nancy's become more proficient in the licensing and coming up with what we feel is a true cost. One of the -- the approach that we are going to go with is -- what we are hoping to go with that Emily has come up with, we want to put before you tonight and get your -- hopefully your approval or any ideas you have as how we should handle it. A lot of the -- what I mentioned earlier are in-text references to fees in our ordinance. If we enact or approve this fee schedule, the ordinance won't match up and so what we are -- the first phase would be to try to institute a fee schedule and remove the in-text references in the ordinance of fees and, then, legal has -- is going through and they want to make substantive ordinance revisions. We thought about doing it all at once and just bringing it before you as one item, but we really feel that we need to get the fee schedule in place first and be able to start charging for the temporary use permits or establishing that fee and not waiting for two more months until we can get the entire -- all the substantive ordinance changes done or accomplished. So, what are hoping to do is enact this fee or I guess implement these fees. We have a draft ordinance which I put in front of you tonight also that Emily has come up with, try to get those past, have the first -- as far as the fee schedule, have the first ad run in the Valley Times on January 26th and again on February 2nd and prepare a resolution for the February 10th agenda. We would have the public hearing on the 10th, hopefully it would be adopted with an effective date of March 2nd. At the same time with the ordinance we would be hoping to have a first reading on January 27th, a second reading on February 3rd, a third reading on February 10th, with an effective date of March 2nd, so those two things would coincide. I had Nancy join us tonight, because I anticipated you may have some questions regarding how the temporary use permit has been going, how much time they are taking, what we are seeing come to our office since we past the temporary use ordinance almost a year Meridian City Council January 20, 2009 Page 34 of 50 ago. And with that I would stand for any questions and ask for any direction that you might have as to how we should go ahead with establishing a fee schedule. Bird: Mr. President? Rountree: Mr. Bird. Bird: I take it these fees are the existing fees; right? You've done a great job of getting your costs out, by the way. Holman: Thank you. That was led by -- I think Mrs. Canning helped with that and so did Emily and all of us met together. It's really been quite a work in process. So, hopefully, you can read it. Bird: These are the existing fees I take it? Holman: Nancy. Radford: Mr. President, Madam Mayor, Councilman Bird, these are existing and some are being -- they are part of the implementation. All the temporary use fees that you see -- this is new. There is no fee currently for this. Bird: The red -- the red are new, the black is existing fees? Radford: Correct. Bird: Okay. Now, these aren't the fees you're proposing, are they -- are they the old ones? Radford: Well, one thing to remember -- and I was a little confused by this myself -- is that when -- see, for example, mobile sales unit license, see that right under expedited processing, it says 75 dollars, but that is including the background check fee of 29.25. See ISP 29.25. That isn't a negotiable amount. That's what Idaho State Police charges period. So, it's 29.25, you know, minus that, and the rest is our fee. The clerk's office fee. Holman: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilman Bird, we collect that fee at the time that they apply and,- then, Idaho State Police, then, charges us and so that's removed from the actual fee that we collect. The cost. Bird: Follow up. Most of these fees -- existing fees compared to your costs -- and, like said, you guys have done a tremendous job of getting your costs, in my opinion. We lose money on it and there is no sense in it. We should at least get cost. I mean the -- you've got wine license and stuff. Here is a good example. Your beer license retail, it costs you 85 dollars, basically, and you sell it for 50. Meridian City Council January 20, 2009 Page 35 of 50 Holman: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member, those are set by Idaho State Code. We -- Bird: That's what I was going to ask. That's the next thing I was going to ask. Holman: Those and the permits -- or the fees that we charge for the fireworks, those are set regardless of what our cost is. We are -- we have a ceiling on those. Bird: You have done a good job. Hoaglun: Mr. President? Rountree: Yes. Hoaglun: I might follow up on that line of questioning, then, Jaycee or Nancy. So, if it says set by Idaho Code 23-1016, for example, the very first one and, then, the others were just Idaho Code, that's a reference to the fees, but if it's set by, it is set by Idaho Code and we have to go by that amount. Is that how I read that? Holman: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilman Hoaglun that is correct. Those ones that say set by, they actually list a fee in their code. The Idaho Code 63- 1311 that you see on all these other ones, those ones say that we can charge what our cost is, essentially. And so what we are trying to do is establish our cost and, for example, if you look at the citizen's use permit, which is about the eighth or ninth one down, if I'm correct, Nancy, those -- a lot of those area ones where they are going to block a public street. That one -- the true cost to us is almost 75 dollars. We had suggested making that one 50 dollars to make it less painful, because we get a decent amount of these and people are normally not very happy in the first place that they are having to come in and have this permitted. That was just -- go ahead, Nancy. Radford: One of the things with the citizen's use permit that we discussed as far as keeping it at a lower cost is that it's usually a community event. We are talking, you know, parades, Dairy Days, things like that. So, that was part of the thinking behind, you know, a straight 50 dollars instead of -- Holman: It's something that benefits the community normally. So, that was our -- our thought between -- it was mainly Emily and Nancy and myself that came up with all of these and,we are definitely looking for your thoughts and what you think on -- on what we have tried to come up with. Hoaglun: So -- Mr. President? Jaycee, the red then -- explain that to me. I didn't quite catch as you were explaining to Councilman Bird about the red numbers. Holman: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilman Hoaglun, when we -- when the Council approved the temporary use ordinance last year, they agreed at that time to go for one year and charge no fee, because it was a new ordinance, it was a Meridian City Council January 20, 2009 Page 36 of 50 new process, we were trying to -- we really didn't know how much time it was going to take, what it was going to involve. Now we have a little bit more clear idea of how much it takes, what's involved, and so these are our suggestions as to what we would like to put forward and if we were to, hopefully, get this resolution past and the ordinance approved at the beginning of March, that would be right at I believe the one year mark of our -- essentially one year free. Hoaglun: Okay. Thank you. Radford: Mr. President, Members of the Council, Madam Mayor, one thing about where it says mobile sales renewal and all the red renewals, currently in our -- the way the ordinance is written there is no provision for renewal. So, that is something that is -part of, I believe, why the fee -- the standards have to be revised, so that we can -- because right now if someone were to come in to renew their mobile sales unit, it would be nothing. Bird: You're kidding me. Radford: It's the way the ordinance -- it doesn't provide for it. Holman: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, that -- essentially, what we are trying to do now is rework all of the -- the ordinance, along with the legal department, establish the different types of permits and uses that we have come through our office and just update this as a whole. It's fairly hit and miss. For example, the mobile sales unit license, we do the background check when they come and get the original -- correct? The original license, but when they come in for renewal -- DeWeerd: You don't ask for it? Holman: We have to -- I believe we should be -- it should be in our ordinance that they do this every year, because -- and not just -- I know we do an Ada County check right now, but I think we need to do a background check, because what if they committed a felony outside of Ada County. I believe that should be part of it every year and we should be charging that fee every year. De Weerd: Over that last year. Holman: The other thing that I have put in here, too, which is a small item at the bottom is I would like to put in our fee schedule the use of -- be able to offer -- if someone has a public records request, offer it on a thumb drive and I've looked into cost of buying one gig thumb drives in bulk, because some of the stuff that we get -- we hand them a 12 inch thick stack of paper and if we are charging ten cents a sheet after the first one hundred pages or for our labor, I think they would -- any of the public that would have these requests would probably prefer to have it on a thumb drive and I have asked for $7.50, I don't think that's unreasonable. And that way they can keep it. It's probably easier to throw a thumb drive in your file than have a gigantic file full of papers. So, Meridian City Council January 20, 2009 Page 37 of 50 that's the other thing that I have added is to try to look towards the future and technology to just be able to offer it in that medium. Nary: Mr. President? Mr. President, Members of the Council, Madam Mayor, just also to maybe answer the earlier question, some of these fees -- one of your questions was is are all -- what's the current fees and some of them we don't charge a fee now. So, the ones for public records request, we don't charge a fee for some of those things and, then, the ones that are in red I don't believe we charge a fee for those. That's why those are highlighted for you, because those are the ones that were, essentially, given a one year moratorium on fees until we could assess what the cost and time was. One thing I would like you to think about, I guess, as part of this workshop and when we bring this forward is one of the things that I know is sometimes difficult for this Council to have to address is fee waivers and I guess it would be our opinion from the legal department is there isn't any more logical reason to give someone a fee waiver for a Conditional Use Permit -- or a citizen's use permit any more than there is for a dog license. If the decision is is that these are fees for licenses or activities that we wish to regulate and have information about, for whatever purpose the city felt was important, then, there is not a reason to not collect a fee for it, because there is a fee that the taxpayers are absorbing if you waive it. And because as we have addressed a few times, it's very difficult for Council to have either a parade of people coming in asking for a fee waiver or to set any real standard for what that is, because it costs -- no matter whether it's a -- a citizen's group that is doing a car wash for a fundraiser for someone who has an illness versus a commercial enterprise that running an car wash as a promotional way to gain business, they still take the same amount of time for the clerk's office to process the application to make sure it fits all the standards and requirements that we have. So, my recommendation is is that once we establish a fee schedule, if you want to establish whatever criteria you think would allow you to grant a waiver, like we did with the room rentals, then, we can certainly have that discussion. But, otherwise, once you tell a member of the public they can come here and ask for a fee waiver, again, there is no logical reason between any of these why there would be a waiver, because it still costs the public money. Some of them we are collecting the full recovery. Many of them we are -- you know, not collecting the full recovery, so it's just a different issue for you to think about as you look through this list and look through how our profit is, but that's something I know is not always the most easy to deal with, but I think we really have to establish whatever it is, if there is a criteria for waiver, then, we should put that in an ordinance. If there isn't, then, there isn't and they'll just have to pay the fee, because, again, if they don't pay the fee, then, it's just absorbed by everybody else. Radford: Mr. President, Madam Mayor, Members of Council, you will notice on the temporary use permit there is about three different standards. Special event. Outdoor markets tend to take more -- a lot more staff time, quite honestly. And you will see that the fee is higher. Promotional sales unit is next and the fee is slightly lower. Temporary sales unit, that -- one of the functions that goes under that standard of a temporary sales unit are those high school fundraising car washes and pretty much out of 30 -- let's see. We got 22 temporary -- or sorry. Thirty-six temporary uses. Twenty-two of Meridian City Council January 20, 2009 Page 38 of 50 them were temporary sales and 11 of those this year were high school or school function car washes. So, even though it says 50 dollars, I'm -- I don't know, I mean I think they are going to be coming in and asking for a fee waiver. I mean 20 dollars to a high school -- that's a lot of money. That's what they are doing is raising funds. So, that's just a thought that I had that even the 50 dollars on that one -- that way if you set something that's standard -- maybe a little less, then, we don't have people coming in asking for a waiver if it's something that's reasonable. Hoaglun: Mr. President, question for Nancy. Then is there -- the temporary sales unit, there is profit and, then, nonprofit? I mean is there two distinct entities asking for that, those that want to make money for a commercial venture and those that are doing it for a school or public activity more or less? Radford: Correct. Hoaglun: Okay. Bird: Mr. President? Rountree: Mr. Bird. Bird: And I think every one of us, including Mr. Nary, has given temporary use to nonprofits when they have come and applied for it and I think that that's something, Mr. Nary, that you could look at and writing it in. I think it was to nonprofit, because most of the nonprofits that come back is for the benefit of our community and -- now, if somebody's out there doing for profit, he should pay a fee, but if it's a high school or a club that's raising money for dogs for the D for deaf -- I don't know -- for the deaf or something like that, Ithink -- I don't think you charge -- you know, they shouldn't have to pay for it, but that's just my personal -- on these renewable licenses, are those -- in the other cities is all those fee licenses on a yearly renewal basis; do you know? Radford: Mr. President, Madam Mayor, Councilman Bird, it depends on the city. I have done some phone calls as far as what they require. Some of them do one month, three months, six months, but that's more for a mobile sales unit, you know, solicitors. We didn't find that beneficial, because that takes up a lot of staff time when they come back and keep coming back and keep coming back. So, one year seems to be a good standard and the fee itself is very reasonable beyond the background check fee. Bird: Yeah. I have no problem with it. Holman: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilman Bird, to go back to your comment regarding the not for profit organization, my understanding, if we were to institute that and say that the not for profits would not have to pay a fee, what we would be tasked with is determining who is a not for profit and who isn't. So, the indicator there is a 501(c)(3), but most of these schools and organizations I believe are not Meridian City Council January 20, 2009 Page 39 of 50 501(c)(3). So, 501(c)(3) we can look on the state's website and verify that, but how would we go about determining that without being able to use that as an indicator? Bird: Mr. President? Rountree: Mr. Bird. Bird: If you look, all the kids -- all the high schools are doing it under a Meridian, Rocky Mountain, or something and each one of those is a 501(c)(3), same as when you donate money to athletic programs at the high school, even though you're donating it to the soccer club, it still goes through their 501(3)(c), so they are still basically a -- Holman: So, Councilman Bird, they could provide us with that information that we could verify? Bird: You bet they can. Nary: Mr. President? Rountree: Bill. Nary: Mr. President and Mr. Bird, I mean I don't agree with you -- I mean I do agree with your statement, I think there is a need in this community for that. I guess the difficulty is is that up front, if that's the -- if that's the rule the Council wishes to establish, it would have to be 501(c)(3) approved organization, that's still -- most of the ones that I'm familiar with -- with the athletic organizations, they have a tax ID number; right? They have a tax ID number that they are able to use as a part of the school. They are not all 501(c)(3)'s, they are not all necessarily the organization, but, again, if you want us to do that, that's fine. My other recommendation is you make the fee low enough that you feel comfortable that everybody's got to pay it, because, again, you are absorbing the entire cost if you make it zero and you will have a lot of folks thinking they qualify and that's the burden that we were trying to avoid at the Clerk's Office is trying to have them determine you fit the category or you don't. But if you want to make it 501(c)(3)'s, that's fine. If they don't qualify, then, I guess they will have to pay. But having a tax ID number may not be adequate to prove that. So, that's the only concern I have is that we are trying to enforce -- it is trying to fit a one size fits all. It's the same discussion we had with the room rental policy in trying to deal with HOAs who were not for profit or to deal with other -- again, if it's a charitable organization it's easy. The Optimist Club, the Lion's Club, those things, those are 501(c)(3)'s, they already have that. But like we have had some discussions, there are some groups around town that have existed for a long time, like the Lion's Club, our local Lion's Club is not a 501(c)(3) or at least wasn't up until maybe September of this year. They have existed for a long time. But because they have never actually done that, because the local chapter doesn't have that status, their national organization does, but they can use their status, but they aren't by themselves separate. If you go to the Secretary of State's website, they are not included. So, those are the problems from an enforcement standpoint and Meridian City Council January 20, 2009 Page 40 of 50 a registration standpoint it's difficult to manage and, again, your staff is absorbing the cost. I mean the city's just absorbing all the cost of it for them. I agree it's not an easy answer when you have a high school band that just wants to do a car wash, but from an enforcement standpoint it does make it difficult for them, so -- Rountree: Bill, I'm still trying to understand all this. I know where -- the root cause of this particular problem, because we established this permit, therefore, we created the burden for staff to work on it. I'm not sure what we get by issuing a temporary use permit for a temporary sales unit. I'm not sure what they -- what they get for the 50 dollars. I see the time and I understand the time involved, but is that just to comply with the ordinance that we have established in terms of notifications and coordination? Is there some safety piece implied by the fact that the fire department is spending a half an hour working on it and the police are spending a half an hour working on it? Do they really get something out it, other than those folks know it's going on? And, then, my final question is it seems to me most of these things are happening during a period of time during the week where enforcement's difficult at best, even if they get a permit. But it seems to me like there is probably a lot of them that occur without permits. So, are we just fooling ourselves? Nary: Well, I can probably -- maybe I will start -- I'm sure the chiefs and Lieutenant Colaianni probably have some and Anna, but most of these types of activities, the reason we made a decision to regulate there is to prevent the proliferation of these unpermitted activities and these deal with all kinds of different sales. This is Christmas tree lots, this is rock gardens out on Franklin and Main Street, these are dogs -- people selling dogs in the landscape buffers by Sportsman Warehouse and Wal-Mart. These are folks selling fruit on the side of the road. I mean these are all different kinds of things. If we chose not to regulate them, then, we couldn't prevent any of them and that's, I think, the problem. Code enforcement has stepped up their activity, they have been more active on the weekends. I know they are looking at -- they now already have Saturday enforcement. They probably need another person in addition to the one they already have, because there is so many, especially if springtime is coming, but that was the main reason, is a majority of these activities are going on without any regulation at all, we would be inundated with sales units selling food out of vending trucks on the side of the road, in the parks, in the dirt somewhere, those -- that's the reason that it came about. So, is it valuable? I think it is in the sense that I don't think we would have any other means to regulate that type of activity to prevent it and the rock -- the rock sale place is probably the best example. It might have taken us three or four weeks to get it removed, because it wasn't allowed to be there and because our ordinance also prohibits that particular property owner from having future sales there that are legitimate and do have permission, it took awhile to get rid of it, but it would still be there today if we didn't. We had dog sales out there by Sportsman's Warehouse and Wal-Mart every weekend throughout November and December and the early part of January and code enforcement took a proactive stance and now they are not there anymore. It was becoming a nightmare just as a consumer to drive through that area when there is people crossing the street, there is dogs all over the place and there is trucks parked in the landscape buffer and there is people still trying to do business in that area, so I think Meridian City Council January 20, 2009 Page 41 of 50 there is value to it. I mean so do the licensees or the permitees get value -- they do in the sense that you do have police and fire looking at the type of activity they are doing and making sure it's being done safely and so that they are making sure that they are not in the traffic lanes, they are not in drive aisles and those kind of -- they don't have tents, they don't have combustibles stacked up next to fuel sources and those kind of things, so they are trying to address those issues, but I think more than anything it prevents the proliferation of them being everywhere and so I guess that's my answer. I don't know if the chief or Lieutenant Colaianni has something from a law enforcement perspective. Rountree: Well, you have answered my question and I think you have answered it for them. I'm just trying to figure out how do you do something that isn't going to be considered or looked at in terms of discrimination action? I mean we are talking about tax deferred and maybe fraternal groups that are benefiting the community that I think we are getting on some thin ice if we start going there. Nary: And that's the objective standard that we are looking for. I mean that --and that's why, again, it's problematic sometimes, although it does seem easy just to look at a 501(c)(3). It may not fit everybody and that's why I have said you're probably wiser, because, again, we are not dealing with content, we are not dealing with what they are selling or what they are promoting or who they are, but where they are and whether they can actually be there and that's all it is, whether they are selling something -- again, if it's a door to door -- for example, we had a question a few months ago with code enforcement that we had a church group that was simply going to door to door, they weren't selling anything, they were promoting their church, they were handing out information about their church. That's a perfectly constitutionally protected activity. They are not selling anything. If they were selling something that's different, because, again, the consumer needs -- deserves some protection that these folks are actually legitimately selling something, that there is a product that's safe or they are entering your home or accessing your home. It's a little different if you're selling something. But here we are -- again, that's why I said if you want an objective standard, the standard is is that the fee is low enough or you're willing to just accept that particular one and say we are willing to not charge anybody. Our cost recovery is minimal, we are recovering it on other areas, this is one activity we are comfortable with, so it doesn't matter who it is, they can do this. But, again, I would be cautious in doing too many of them, but I just think the waiver issue is where you have the discrimination concem where someone feels like they should have gotten a waiver if somebody else got a waiver. Those are ones that is where we have more trouble and concem about discrimination. Bird: Mr. President? Rountree: Mr. Bird. Bird: Bill, you just brought up a can of worms in my mind. You said going door to door and selling stuff. You have got Girl Scout cookies. Every grade school sells these things. Our Optimist football sells -- kids go door to door also and sell those five dollar Meridian City Council January 20, 2009 Page 42 of 50 cards. High school -- and I'm sure your son's club sells those things door to door. Now, is every one of them going to have to get a license? Nary: No. Courts have exempted them, because I think the Girl Scouts is a majorly large organization and they have been exempted, so they are allowed for what courts have determined to be legitimate school fundraising activities. So, the Girl Scouts can do that. And anything that looks like the Girl Scouts, they can do that. So, if it's a school activity, door to door sales, they don't have to get a permit. Anyone else that's selling brushes, vacuums, whatever, yes, they have got to get a permit. Bird: That's for profit. That's what I have been -- that's what I have been saying, what's the difference between a high school club having a car wash and my Optimist football kids going door to door? Nary: Because the courts have said door to door was okay and the courts have not said everything else is okay. Everything else is on the table to argue that it's discriminatory, because we choose one group over another. If you find some objective standard again, if it's -- if it's going to be that they have tax exempt certificate, because groups that we may or may not particularly like get a tax exempt certificate, can get tax exempt status from the IRS, that's okay. If that's the basis, that's okay. I'm just -- all I was saying before is not everybody you think may fall in that category may and that may be very problematic from the clerk's standpoint. But that's about the only thing that a court might give us some coverage, but the door to door has been litigated and it has been allowed, so we don't have an issue with those. De Weerd: Mr. President? Rountree: Madam Mayor. De Weerd: And it's more intrusive. I mean I'd rather choose to stop at a car wash than have someone come and sell me something at my door. I guess that's one way you can -- you can define it is to use those definitions on door to door sales and apply them to the temporary sales, that would exempt, you know, several nonprofits and at least the school organizations, then, you could add nonprofits and fraternal organizations and include the Lion's Club per se. But I guess the justification, too, is the money they raise goes back into the community. You know, oftentimes it's just an offset that they are putting it back into a park or some other kind of city program or community program that I guess would be justifiable. It doesn't pass that sniff test, I guess, of how you find out who is and who isn't, but -- Canning: President Rountree? Radford: Mr. President, Madam Mayor, may I speak? Rountree: Give us the solution. Meridian City Council January 20, 2009 Page 43 of 50 Radford: Okay. Again, the temporary use permit, the reason -- it just came to us as a temporary use permit. Then, the standards were separated out by the kind of temporary use permit. Special event. Promotional sales. Mobile home park, mobile -- mobile home sales with the trailer, you know, on the -- on the site. Temporary sales. We -- if it's the Council's desire, these other bigger events can have a fee and possibly not for the temporary sales unit. Now, there would be -- because we are going by the standards in the ordinance, there would be some uses under temporary sales that would fall into that category. If you chose not to have a fee for temporary sales because the majority of car washes and fundraisers and all that, then, you're going to -- you're going to exempt Christmas tree lots and the smaller type sales that fall under those standards in the ordinance. So, that's just something to chew on a little. Hoaglun: Mr. President, let me wade into this there, too. Bill, you had mentioned groups. We can't discriminate against groups, but can you discriminate by activities? I was trying to think what do high schools and other groups do to raise money -- you know, a lot of them are doing the car washes. I mean if we exempt an activity, such as car washes do not require a permit, because, you know, like the dogs you mentioned, I mean we want to regulate that. That is a problem. But -- and I don't know if there is other activities that high schools are out there doing -- I mean we already covered door to door, but is a car wash specifically -- if we exempt that activity from being -- having a permit -- temporary permit, are we okay doing that? And it might take some research, but, you know, I tried to think what schools do to raise money and that seems to be something -- you see the cheerleaders, you see the drill team, you see the band, you see the football team doing the car washes and might be a way around it. I don't know. De Weerd: And my family's going to go have a car wash every day and that's going to be our family annual income. I guess, you know, you have to think of it in terms of that, too. Rountree: Nancy wants to jump in on that one. Radford: Mr. President, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council -- De Weerd: You can donate to my family income. That would be okay. Radford: If they have a car wash in a location that changes the use of that location -- and (think that's part of why this came about. Pioneer Federal is a common applicant this past year. It changes -- you're not parking there, you have tables and hoses and soap and buckets and so even if -- you know, whatever the fee is or not or whatever, it's good that they come in with that application, because they are saying this is what we are doing, this is how it's going to be set up, and that helps with the weekend code enforcement or whatever. They know that that's happening. So, there is a benefit to that. If they have a car wash at their school, I believe that's an exempt because it's something a school does is have fundraisers like that. I don't know, maybe planning can -- Meridian City Council January 20, 2009 Page 44 of 50 Canning: President Rountree, that is correct, any activity that the students take on school grounds is considered an accessory use. If it's a curricular or extra-curricular or community event, it -- a temporary use permit is not required. For example, the Mayor's State of the City does not require a temporary use permit. I'm always happy of that one every year. De Weerd: They have to pay.. Nary: It's always problematic and I know it makes -- I know it makes perfect sense to everybody here in this room, but a court doesn't necessarily find that Fat City's Christmas tree lot is that much different than the Optimist Christmas tree lot. The purposes of the clubs may be different and what they do -- what they do with the money may be different, but that's where courts, then, have found that that's where your discriminatory action takes place. Now you have decided that this nonprofit organization fits your code and they are okay with what they do with their money, but what Fat City does with their money isn't okay with you, so they should pay a fee for it. That's where the courts care about discrimination and that's why I said we could certainly look at the ones for nonprofits, because at least courts in general have found that to be okay in some activities, but, you know, that was why we allowed the schools to allow them to do it on their property. The problem is they don't always want it on their property, they want it in Pioneer Federal parking lot, because it's more visible than doing it on the school ground and I understand that, but it may seem okay until it's every single week. We had problems with garage sales every week. We had problems with outside garage sales in the bank parking lot, the same bank parking lot every week. Those are the problems is it makes it difficult from the clerk's standpoint or code enforcement to differentiate between why this garage sale this week is okay and that the car wash next week is not. And that's the -- that's the problem we try to get uniformly, but, again, courts have just not been very sympathetic about cities trying to support certain types of activity and not others, because that's where they felt that that was discriminatory. Hoaglun: Mr. President -- and I don't mind if we decide one activity they still require a permit and, then, we set the fee very low where we can still allow tracking of that activity at what location and let code enforcement know, I mean that's -- you know, I think that could be reasonable if you set it low enough for a -- a blessed activity, such as a car wash. Yeah, you might have people in this economy might be out there every week having car washes to make some extra money down the road, but, you know -- but overall I don't want this discussion to overlook the fact that I think the city clerk's office did a good job with this and overall is really good. We wandered off on this one issue, but overall I think this is -- this is very good and something that's -- Holman: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilman Hoaglun, as I tried to tell Nancy, Excel is your friend. So, one of the issues -- we talked about the temporary sales unit possibly having a very low fee or no fee or whatever the Council decides -- Christmas tree lots also fall into that category and those are ones that we will be requiring if it's not a paved surface. Planning will be doing site visits next year. We had Meridian City Council January 20, 2009 Page 45 of 50 some this year that really took a lot of staff time from several departments. So, I just want to make sure that you all are aware of that, that if we set it very low we will be absorbing the cost -- a substantial cost on some of them that require site visits and things like that and I don't know if planning wants to weigh in on that or not, but that was my understanding from this year's sales. Canning: President Rountree, Members of the Council, yes, what you could do is the opposite of what Council Member Hoaglun suggested and just charge Christmas tree lots and we'd probably work out better that way. But that was a little bit tongue in cheek, but I apologize, but they were a lot of work this year. Bird: Mr. President? Rountree: Mr. Bird. Bird: Christmas trees lots -- some of them are just identical to fireworks sale stands. Bill -- I mean when you get -- when you get to that, somehow or the other we have got to determine what's nonprofit, what the court will consider nonprofit continually and what isn't nonprofit. Nary: Council Member Bird -- Bird: I know what my thoughts are on that. Nary: Yeah. And the fireworks ones are regulated by state statute. They regulate how much we can charge for those. So, they've, basically, taken the attitude like we were talking about it is there is some cost to you, but we are not going to allow the cities to charge whatever they want to, we are going to regulate what it is specifically. So, they - - so, again, there is no waiver for that. I mean they got to pay it, but it's only 25 dollars. You know, I mean we make up for it some on the liquor sales and that's -- again, that's a situation set up by the state to allow cities to charge a specific amount for certain things that, as you noticed in there your cost recovery on this is generally pretty good. So, at least on the non-package sales. The stores we don't recover any money, but the other ones we did. Rountree: I don't know what the balance is of these columns, because I don't have the - - obviously, the number of permits issued, but it seems to me that part of the philosophy of the permits is a control strategy, not a money making strategy. But for the sake of trying to get this discussion to an end, I would suggest that we either eliminate the fee on the temporary sale unit permit for a year and evaluate what we have and don't have or make it a minimal fee of around 20 dollars and move on. To me a lot of the issues that we are talking about, like Christmas tree sales and that sort of thing, get me confused about what temporary is and what temporary continuous is. A garage sale at the same site every weekend for ten weekends in a row, is that really and truly a temporary use? I don't think so. I think there is something wrong with our definition. A fire -- or a Christmas tree lot at the same location for a week before Thanksgiving Meridian City Council January 20, 2009 Page 46 of 50 through Christmas Eve. To me that's -- that's a little more than temporary. So, I think maybe one thing we might want to look at is what our definition of temporary is. But, again, if our intended purpose -- if, again, the outcome is to control some of these things, then, I think the city needs to be willing to absorb some of those costs on some of these issues where we actually have not equated on this spreadsheet the value back to the community that's gained. Holman: 'Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilman Rountree. My suggestion is -- like he was telling me, I would advocate for doing a minimal fee versus no fee, because that gets them .in here filling out the application, paying their fee, walking them through the process. That would be my -- my preference. De Weerd: Mr. President? Rountree: Madam Mayor. De Weerd: I guess I'd like to see the minimal fee, because, yeah, we do want to know about it, but also ask that our attorney look at our definition of temporary and see where you can distinguish between the actual fundraiser versus for profit or, you know -- yeah, I don't know if it's promotional sales. To me that seems fireworks or a trade lot that has promotional sales or even especially them, because it's geared around a special event. But if we can just have a better definition, I think it will help this conversation and -- Nary: Mr. President, Madam Mayor, in addition to that, we will also look at what Council Member Hoaglun raised is whether or not we could find any court support for separating that service, which is all the car washes, because they are not selling you anything, they are just washing our car. First, as an activity where they are selling you something and whether or not courts have distinguished between those types of activities, because one, like you said, Madam Mayor, you choose to go to a car wash and have them service -- provide you service, versus a sales unit that's still selling you something that may have an impact on you after you leave the lot. So, we will see if there is something else in that kind of definition and maybe we could find a distinguishment for that, too. Hoaglun: And just to add to that, Mr. President, that a lot of these car washes, if I recall, they request a donation and they are not saying X amount of dollars. Bird: That's right. Hoaglun: So, that might be a variation in that. And, then, if you could work in there for the fire department; anything related to salmon feeds get free, you know, too, so -- Nary: If salmon is related, yeah, that might be okay. Rountree: Now, we have talked about fees to a great extent here, but I think our real action is the proposed ordinance and the resolution establishing fees, so from my perspective, I think you have done the right thing and I think it's a good piece of work. I Meridian City Council January 20, 2009 Page 47 of 50 would suggest if it's just that one fee we are talking .about that we come to some consensus on that fee and move forward. So, I'm going to throw out 20 dollars. Bird: For temporary? Rountree: For temporary use. Do I hear ten? Bird: You know, Idon't -- Mr. President, I don't think that 20 dollars is exorbitant to ask, but I think it's -- I think it's the thoughts behind it. If you're going to do it for that and we have our fun run sponsored by the City of Meridian Parks Department, are we going to charge for that? Are we going to charge for the chili cook off, which is a benefit to the downtown association and to the fireman thing, the same as the salmon barbecue? I don't know, I -- I don't mind -- I don't mind having to pay if I was putting on a benefit having to pay 20 dollars, but some people -- some organizations are going to think not, so -- Rountree: Can we establish the fee and Bill's got a laundry list of things to evaluate, which will require an ordinance change of yet another visiting on this, in order to do that at such time as we get that, then, we can modify that particular item. Bird: Twenty's fine with me. Nary: Council Member Rountree, I think what the thought process would be is that we would notice up a fee hearing, because we are establishing some new fees, as well as some increased fees and if -- and we can't -- just like our earlier discussion about fees regarding public works, we could set whatever we want in the -- in the fee hearing notice, we can certainly make it lower if the Council chooses to do that at that particular point, we could probably answer that. The ordinance going forward that we are looking at bringing really is just going to change the bare language in the ordinances now that just say you have to pay the scheduled fee, instead of in every one of them having a different fee and every time we have to change it it would just say you got to pay the established one. So, that's what I take was our game plan. Am I correct, Ms. Radford? I think that was the intent. Radford: Yes. Nary: Okay. Hoaglun: Mr. President, I'm good with 20 dollars on that and I did have one other comment on renewals that if renewals are something where they don't need another background check and it's a lower cost to do, I don't mind seeing renewals at that lower cost. But that's just my thinking and -- you know. Holman: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilman Hoaglun, I believe the ones we were talking about that require the background check are the same process when you renew. So, what we are asking for at this time -- or direction from you is to Meridian City Council January 20, 2009 Page 48 of 50 allow us to go forward with the fee schedule and publish and, then, come back on February 10th with a resolution and also come back with the third reading on February 10th of the ordinance that just removes the text from the existing. We will be coming back later with substantive ordinance changes regarding all of this, rewording different things in the ordinance having to do with these fees, but for now that's all we are asking for is establishing the fee schedule that requires us to remove and change some of the language in the existing ordinance. I'm song. With an effective date of March 2nd of '09 is what we are hoping for. Rountree: I think we are all in agreement with that. We'd just like to solve problems that we created. Holman: I'd like to put on the record that I was brand new when we said the clerk's office could do this and I would like to retract that and say the planning department should do it. Rountree: I thought you were going to retract that you were brand new. Bird: Nice job, Nancy. Rountree: Yeah. Good work. I mean that's -- Bird: Appreciate it. Rountree: On everybody's part putting together those tables. Holman: Emily did a lot of work on this -- the bulk of it. Bird: Well, pass it on to her. Item 7: EXECUTIVE SESSION: A. Executive Session per Idaho State Code 67-2345(1)(a)(d) 8~ (fib Rountree: Well, that brings us to our last item on the agenda. Bird: Mr. President? Rountree: Mr. Bird. Bird: I move we go into Executive Session as per Idaho State Code 67-2345(1)(a), (1)(b), and (1)(f). Hoaglun: Second. Meridian City Council January 20, 2009 Page 49 of 50 Rountree: It's been moved and seconded to go into Executive Session. We'll have a roll call vote. Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, absent; Hoaglun, yea. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT. Rountree: But before we break and so staff doesn't necessarily have to stay here, tentative assignments for liaisons -- if you don't like them let me know. De Weerd: I thought those were grades. Rountree: They are grades. Yeah. We got K grades and D grades and B grades, no A grades. Mayor and the clerk's office I will remain liaison. Legal, HR and IT, Keith Bird. Finance, Brad. Planning -- I'm going to take Planning. Public Works Keith Bird. Parks and Recreation, David. Fire, Brad. And that will be an adventure for you. Bird: Which ones have I got, Charlie? Rountree: And police will be David. Keith, legal, HR, IT and Public Works. Holman: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, can I read this back to you, Charlie, to make sure I did it -- I'm song, Councilman Rountree. Rountree: That's okay. Holman: So, Councilman Rountree will have Mayor, Clerks, and Planning. Rountree: Correct. Holman: Councilman Bird will have legal, HR, IT, and Public Works. Rountree: Right. Holman: Councilman Hoaglun will have finance and fire. And Councilman Zaremba will have parks and rec and police. Rountree: Correct. EXECUTIVE SESSION: Bird: I move we come out of Executive Session. Hoaglun: Second. Meridian City Council January 20, 2009 Page 50 of 50 Rountree: It's been moved and seconded to come out of Executive Session. All those in favor? MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT. Bird: I move we adjourn. Hoaglun: Second. Rountree: Moved and seconded we adjourn. All in favor? MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT. MEETING ADJOURNED AT 10:39 P.M. (AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) MAYOR T Y DE WEERD ATTEST: YCE.B L 01 / .3 / ~~ DATE APPROVED ~,°„°° u... r r r,,,,r~ rFo CFI( LE i 9 M 's O ~~ '., 9® T 1ST ' Q`Z ~~~~~ ~~~hJrrnrn n~°°`°°°~