HomeMy WebLinkAbout2008 11-25Meridian City Council November 25, 2008
A meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 7:00 p.m., Tuesday,
November 25, 2008, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Tammy de Weerd, David Zaremba, Keith Bird, Brad Hoaglun, and
Charlie Rountree.
Others Present: Ted Baird, Jaycee Holman, Tom Bary, Keith Watts, Pete Friedman,
John Overton, Ron Anderson, Bob Stowe and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll -call Attendance:
Roll call.
X David Zaremba X Brad Hoaglun
X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
De Weerd: Good evening. I'll go ahead and call this meeting to order. We thank you
all for being here this evening. For the record it is Tuesday, November 25th. It is four
minutes after 7:00. We will first begin with roll call attendance.
Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance:
De Weerd: Okay. If you will all rise and join us in the pledge of allegiance.
(Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
Item 3: Community Invocation by Tim Pusey with Valley Shepherd Church of
the Nazarene:
De Weerd: Okay. Item No. 3 is our community invocation and before I ask Pastor
Pusey to come forward and lead us in the invocation, I would like to make a comment.
Pastor Pusey had opened up the Valley Shepherd Nazarene Church on Sunday for our
community Thanksgiving celebration, which all members of any place of worship or all
members of our community were invited to gather together in thanksgiving in
celebration of all that we are thankful for and it was a beautiful facility certainly. But we
had 250 people be entertained and join in our celebration for Thanksgiving. So, we
appreciate, Pastor, that you share your community asset, your place of worship, with
this community to gather. So, with that said, I will ask you to, please, come forward and
lead us in the invocation and invite our members of the public here tonight to join us or
take this as an opportunity for a moment of reflection.
Pusey: Heavenly Father, in this week of Thanksgiving we pause to thank you for your
many many blessings in our lives and particularly tonight we thank you for the
opportunity of being apart of the community of Meridian. I thank you, Lord, for these
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who serve our community, our City Council, and our Mayor, and we pray your blessing
upon them. We ask, Lord, for your guidance for them tonight in all the work that they
are doing and I pray that as we rejoice over our blessings in this week you would help
us to be ever mindful of the needs of people around us and teach us how to be
responsive to those needs. Lord, for your many, many thanks for your many, many
blessings we give you our deepest thanks tonight, amen.
Item 4: Adoption of the Agenda:
De Weerd: Thank you, Pastor. Okay. Item 4 is adoption of the agenda.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: On the agenda, under the Consent Agenda, Item G, the resolution number
will be 08-632. Item H, the resolution number will be 08-633. Item I, the resolution
number will be 08-634. Item J, the resolution number will be 08-635. On the regular
part of the agenda we have been asked to move Items 15 and 16 up on the agenda to
follow Items 10, 11 -- 9, 10 and 11. So, we propose that 15 come right after 11 and,
then, 16. And, then, we would go back to 12. Item 17, the ordinance number is 08-
1390. And we need to add an Item 18, which would be an Executive Session under
Section 67-2345(1)(a), the considering of hiring an individual agent. And with those
modifications I move we adopt the agenda.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda as amended. All
those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 5: Consent Agenda:
A. Approve Minutes of October 14, 2008 City Council Regular
Meeting:
B. Approve Minutes of October 21, 2008 City Council Workshop
Meeting:
C. Approve Minutes of October 28, 2008 City Council Regular
Meeting:
D. Approve Minutes of November 5, 2008 City Council Special
Meeting:
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E. Development Agreement: AZ 08-003 Request for Annexation
and Zoning of 12.06 acres from RUT to R-40 (10.56 acres) and C -C
F. Approve CDBG PY08 Subrecipient Agreement with Meridian
Boys & Girls Club:
G. Resolution No.: Use of Fitness Facility& Recycling:
H. Resolution No.: Solid Waste Collection Rate Change:
1. Resolution No.: Declaring City HallCampus a Park:
J. Resolution No.: CPA 08-002 Request for Comprehensive Plan
Amendment to modify the Future Land Use Map by changing the
land use designation for approximately 10
acres from Low Density Residential to Mixed Use — Community for
Eagle and Victory by Rose Law Group — Northwest Corner of East
Victory Road and South Eagle Road:
K. Development Agreement: AZ 06-063 Request for Annexation
and Zoning of 38.68 acres from RUT and R-1 zones to C -G zones
for Waltman Property (aka Browning Plaza) by Waltman, LLC —
505, 521, 615 and 675 Waltman Lane:
L. Agreement with ACHD for Roadway Construction / Sewer and
Water Line Improvements for ACHD Project No. 305048 Ustick
/ Linder Intersection:
M. Task Order 0782 Ground Water & Wells Data Compilation with
Hydro Logic, Inc. for $29,685.00:
N. Change Order No. 1 with JUB Engineers for Ten Mile Creek
Sewer Crossing for the Not to Exceed Amount of $6,986.00:
O. Development Agreement: AZ 07-012 Request for Annexation
and Zoning of 258.39 acres from RUT to C -G zone for Meridian
Town Center by CenterCal Properties, LLC — Northwest Comer
and Northeast Comer of North Eagle Road and East Fairview
Avenue:
De Weerd: Item 5 is our Consent Agenda.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
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Zaremba: Repeating that under the Consent Agenda Item G will be resolution 08-632.
H, resolution 08-633. I, resolution number 08-634. And J the resolution number is 08-
635. 1 move we adopt the Consent Agenda.
Hoaglun: Second.
Zaremba: And for the Mayor to sign and the clerk to attest.
Hoaglun: Second.
De Weerd: Thank you. I have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Hearing none,
Madam Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 6: Department Reports:
A. Mayors Office:
1. Economic Development Report by Phil Stiffler with
AspireOn:
De Weerd: Okay. Item 6 under department reports. Tonight we will start the reports
with -- from the Mayor's office. Phil Stiffler to give his economic excellence update.
Stiffler: Madam Mayor and Councilmen, I'm pleased to be here this evening to be able
to give you an update and I guess that update being a concern and looking at times, we
look at economic times across our country. I think it's important to put things in
perspective and that's what I'd like to be able to do this evening and what I have done is
I have actually identified various bullets of items that I think are important for discussion.
The first one of those that I would like to indicate is really, again, reminding everybody
and members that -- members of the Council and the people that are here of the
mission and the vision that we have outlined for economic excellence for the city. We
still maintain that. I still think that the story that's being told to our businesses and our
stakeholders and our citizens is I think they are very respectful of the Council and
Mayor's efforts to make sure that those are the direction that we are going. With regard
to the focus areas that have been identified -- and the Council back in June we
approved those and we looked at what we have gone through and we stayed on that
focus of those main focus areas. We still have focused on the business enterprise
corridor concept, the engagement with actually existing and emerging Meridian
businesses, the positioning for the sustainable economic base of our community
longstanding, that's IB, where we have also talked about the economic excellence,
rather than just economic development and the target marketing to look at what really is
to attract new value added businesses here in our community and finally looking at --
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looking at all that information in regard to the fact of making sure that we have got data
and other information that goes to help those businesses that are here, as well as
looking at the data information important to attracting or emerging other businesses. I
would also mention -- and I have left with the city clerk -- there is a packet that I have -- I
think that each of you may have, which I will not go through in depth, but I will mention
in the packet there you're going to find several items, including what we would call a fact
sheet, it's something that we can utilize, more of a summary. We were asked for this.
More of a fact sheet document that's more of a quick and easy read to be able to
provide to those people that have inquiries in what goes on in our community and give
me more of the economic issues. There is also things specific where we have drawn
upon a lot of businesses here. The same as identified. I know that Councilman
Rountree, for example, and myself we are actually at the top 75 businesses in the state.
At that time with the count we actually had 12 and potentially 13 actually out of that
group that were very proud to be Meridian businesses. I think the reality of looking at
some of the businesses that are headquartered here and the entities that here will lead
into some of my discussion about more of the updated -- the realities we face today.
Also, I would mention there is one other document that I would definitely invite you to
read. I think Councilman Hoaglun was -- I don't know if at the time he got a copy of that
when I presented it to the state legislative committee. But that was the document that
was presented there in support of our health science tech corridor and I'm pleased to
say -- and I will report a little bit later that ended up being an eight zero vote in favor of
that going forward. So, with that, more on what I would call recent activities, but I will
call the first one there as economic reality. I'd like to report to the Council something
that I know that you're very aware of and I must repeat it in the context of talking with
businesses, small, medium, large throughout our community. If everybody is faced with
the national economic issues that we know, that we read about everybody in the
papers. I would say that one of the responses that I continue to get from a lot of the
businesses are, Phil, we have got to pay attention to running our business and the idea
of understanding that we all know -- I know Councilman Bird -- we talked about it before.
If you look at the fact running your business is a primary focus of what must be done.
The thing that they ask me continually is related to let's make sure that we stay the
focus on Meridian, on the macro things that we can do, to help gamer jobs and help our
businesses that are here today and I will say the traction related to even the health
sciences tech corridor -- look what hit is. They look at that how that will impact that
restaurant, how that will impact the other businesses in our community and they want to
stay focused on that. We have got a leading ledge and we are taking something to be
that driver or catalyst -- what I call more of that economic engine. And so in those
realities -- I think the realities are is we need to stay optimistic. I think our business
community and our stakeholders view of that they want us to stay optimistic, but they
want us to say in focus on the attention of what we can have in impact and
understanding what we may not be able to have an impact on. And I think that that
leads into my next statement of something I talked with the Council in June is the next
bullet there is relationship building and networking. I would say that right now the
economic base that we have -- that we have -- or the economic situation we have today,
it's very paramount that we look on how we can build from within and I want to use a
couple of examples to share with Council that some of them you may be aware of and
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some of them you may not be aware of. That we look at the fact that some of the
growth and some of the new things that we have seen happen -- I'm going to use an
entity in town here called Venga Works. As you may see and read in some of the things
in the Idaho Business Review, that was started by two tech -- tech individuals out of the
Silicon Valley and moved up here. They bought the Freedom storage. They have now
opened the building -- I think some of you have actually toured their facility over off of
Overland. Well, they are now starting to fill that facility and the exciting part about it is
some of the things they are filling it with are things that we targeted. Take for example
T Sheet, which is one of the leading software companies with regard to tracking and
time sheets on an automated basis, that was going to look at maybe going to Boise --
the connectivity side of that relationship, which is exciting, is we got them there and they
are staying there and they are now looking at bringing other entities. Are they 10,000
employees? No. They are six to eight employees and there are six to eight employees
that bring other ones. They are also very good jobs. But that ends up being a catalyst
to the kind of thing that we can grow from within and connect those relationships. I
would also say that if you look at -- if you look at examples of even right now is -- I was
sharing with the Mayor the other day -- I had a long discussion with ESI and we all know
that ESI, for example, what they are doing as far as that construction and moving their
headquarters over to Portico. Well, Neil was telling me, Phil, I have got two other
entities related to what it is that I'm going to make the arrangements to make sure we
introduce -- that they are doing some jobs in other parts of the Pacific north west, they
have heard about Meridian. So, we have got to build off taking that networking and that
concept from the players that are here that have something at stake -- to be very blunt,
they have the same passion and enthusiasm that this Council has and I think our
citizens have and we need to build from that within, because the reality is that we are
not going to see a lot, in today's economic times, we are not going to see the big boys
popping in here and saying I'm going to employ 10,000 people. It's just not happening.
So, we need to make sure that we take, I guess, our roll in accountability to do what we
can from within those groups. The other one I'll mention is that that target marketing
side of that third bullet, the best source for joint target marketing is to me comes right
from the businesses and the people we have here. It's gone to the point that I go to the
point asking someone like the people from -- I will use Venga Works. Who else do you
know in the Silicon Valley? Who else is supplying you? What can you do? We are,
actually, going to do a survey to actually do it -- and we want it to be simplified, but I
want to get it so I don't want to take too much of our business people's time, but I want
them to help us connect. It's part of their welfare. Connect who you know. Sometimes
it's a family member, sometimes it's a business associate you met at a convention.
Whatever it is. I think that's where we are at today. We knew the realities of it and we
got to face realities and we deal with the things that we can actually change and make a
difference. In that -- in that same type of marketing, both on a regional basis leading
into the health sciences tech corridor, I will tell you that I know in economic times that
the attraction -- and I think most of you -- and you will find in your packet you will see
the article that was recently in the Idaho Business Review. The Idaho Business Review
has even caught onto it. I don't know if there is a representative here tonight, but they
have caught onto the idea of how can we continue to tell that story and understand the
economic impact of it. We have got a pretty much commitment I think you're going to
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see over the next few issues, they are going to start featuring a lot of the businesses
that are in our health tech corridor and start telling a story about what they represent,
whether it could be research and development, whether it could be the new complex
care hospital, which come January they will employ close to 200 people. What comes
out of that, too, is we start talking to the people, whether it's EI Dorado, whether it's
Silverstone, whether it's Gramercy, whether it's Bridgetower, where ever it might be in
the developments in our community. We start to find out that they are now going to
attract physicians, of specialty groups, to be part of that group and it's the best
economic engine on a reality with regard to return on the dollars invested that we find
today in the country that's still being financed, still growing, and to be honest, I'm one of
those guys in that demographics that require that kind of health care and those things.
We have got some focus in the state -- Tammy's smiling at me, because it won't put hair
back on my head -- but we have got some focus in the state right now, even from the
governor's office, if understanding the importance of that. So, the health sciences tech
corridor -- as you know, I have talked for some time about it and I guess this was why I
was very much thankful that Councilman Hoaglun was there also to help support it. We
tried to look at supporting the idea that you cannot find a health sciences tech corridor in
the United States that I'm aware of that does not have the educational component that
needs to be there. As you may be aware -- and I gave you the actual presentation, it's
in your packet, is the summary bullet that I gave to the state legislative committee that
day. I had testified previously with the state board of education and I, again, on the
follow up, on staying on the track of the fact in support of the fact of the community in
Meridian, but supporting what we can do to have the influence of that educational entity
that can be the catalyst and supplemented by other educational institutions in our
community, just push that whole medical program forward, because to do the clinical
trials, to do the other testing, to get the other research and development, we need that
component. As you may be aware, the good news is -- I don't know, I didn't get a
chance to talk to Council -- I told Councilman Hoaglun -- I switched my whole
presentation today. I was at the legislature. I will be very blunt. They had listed the
facts and numbers for about four hours and you guys all know me that I like to talk and
the Mayor wasn't there to kick me, but the point is I wanted to speak a little bit from the
heart and I told them the ideas, I do have a dream, and I have a dream of the fact that
we are going to be a regional medical center and it will be in Meridian. The good part
about it is I left that legislative committee -- I know Councilman Bird didn't get a chance
to stay, because our meeting ran late at St. Luke's, but I have to admit the St. Luke's
advisory board, the day I was there, it was exciting to talk to those people and the day
before where they had just -- I just left the legislature, hadn't known what the vote was
going to be yet, but, actually, a lot of the senior people at St. Luke's included Skip
Oppenheimer was there from the systems and some other people to come and, I tell
you what, Charlie, I had a tough time getting away, because it was like they said -- and
as you know, I sat there and told them we are sitting right at the heart of that -- of that
health sciences tech corridor. And the reality is is that St. Luke's, as you know,
launched their bond issue I think about that same day, because they have some vested
interest in looking at what's going on. They are looking at investing a billion dollars over
the next ten years. We need to be part of that in looking at those returns on those
values of dollars that tie into that to spin off from it. So, with that -- with that next thing in
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the ISU update, the idea is that now they do have the go ahead. They have been --
they have given the go ahead to present their business plan. The discussion in the
legislature and both the State Board of Education have said is that the reality is they are
-- they are given the direction to go to the pursuit of looking at a medical degree, looking
at what they need to do to move forward as ISU being an institution in the state to be
able to -- to be able to provide that medical degree. The direction came out that they
said actually will stay -- still stay with planning as it is, we are going to add seats. It's
sort of like -- I use the analogy maybe it's time for the kids to move out of the house and
go on their own, but it takes time. It takes transition while it still takes the realities of
making sure that we are educating those doctors to be back here. So, that update there
is a very positive one. The second one I think some of you may be aware of. Delta
Dental has actually contributed another half a million dollars to help with the ISU
campus and the school district there, which is going to be another positive thing. The
announcement even with some of the cuts in the states we are still going to -- with the
cuts with some of the institutions in the state we are still going to see the pharmacy
program moving forward. So, I would say that ISU, in my view, is alive and well and I
would also say that I think a lot of the other educational institutions, which I'm going to
touch on a couple of the other ones, too, also see the benefit and the idea of how they
can help each other. It isn't independent. That just happens to be the catalyst that's
going in our community and I think we will see those programs continue. The next one,
as most of you have attended or been involved, we are going forward with the next
economic excellence series in conjunction with the chamber. That will be on January
25th. As of today I got an e-mail this afternoon and it, actually, looks like that Ed
Dalberg is probably going to be one of the primary speakers. We have gotten the
hospital, some of the medical people, and some of the other individuals even -- we are
getting a representative from the governor's task force that also is going to speak. It's
going to be focused, again, on the health sciences tech corridor and we have
tremendous support from the chamber and the people there and it's the idea of let's
move the traction forward in looking at how that has that kind of impact and putting the
word out there and telling the story to look for the benefit of the stakeholders that are in
that in our whole community. Lastly, as an update, as some of you were aware I
reported to Council back -- back at the last meeting that we actually -- we had engaged
and had an involvement with Northwest Nazarene University to look at what I call a
feasibility study related to the feasibility study related to the northwest corridor is how I
first pegged it and I explained it to Council and some of the discussions you had to say
what could really be out there? How could that impact our economic future of the
community? What could we do? But I would have to say that it's interesting, because it
falls into asking -- asking Northwest Nazarene University to take a look at that and say
what do you think? Actually, it was a little bit somewhat directed. I participated with
them and we had -- but it was not -- it was not dictated, it was more you need to take a
look at it, plant some seeds with ideas with them. We had help from part of their senior
faculty and three other students. We also had participation on behalf of a lot of our
major stakeholder developers in that area. I know Frank's in the audience
tonight. Bridgetower participated, people that -- excuse me. People from Tree Farm,
from Derek O'Neil, other -- David Turnbull, people that we have that had a vested
interest out there to get their insight on the students in their first setting. So, with that I'd
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like to give a little bit of report on that. I want to point out that you will see this area has
the seals district, that's not my name and that's not -- you see please look in the bottom,
it says Northwest Nazarene University student project draft approach. What I
summarized here is that the students, after they had completed that study, they, then,
actually looked at doing a presentation for us and we invited the same stakeholders in
that area to be involved in that and I'm not picking on Frank, he's one of the ones here,
but Frank's here today and he actually -- he had a chance to sit in that and I think he
would share with you that it wasn't dictated, we shared ideas. I think it was a surprise to
a lot of the developers there, but it was also saying wait a minute, not a bad idea, let's
look at it more. And so the reason I present it -- we are not in a stage to say this is
really where we need to go, this is just more of the beginning of the feasibility side of
that and so I just will mention, you know, the geographic area when we first had
identified it, we kind of took a little pocket out there just in that northwest corridor, which
had included at least we think the three major developments, but included other areas
beyond it. So, what -- what they kind of said was what the students did was they just
identified some initial thoughts with regard to the items that you may see there.
Climate. Specialized farmers. They were trying to say a variety of processing industry
in the area, presence of university infrastructure, local access to medical research and
hospitals. Well, they tried to say what's the really feasibility of a bio ag, bio sciences,
what's my business enterprise -- kind of looking at the business enterprise corridor
concept, is it feasible, does it make sense. And the reality is is that when it looked at
that one of the people that I also drew upon is I actually drew upon Jan de Weerd, who,
then, was -- you know, some of you know Jan's background, because I went to him,
because I knew he had actually worked in an area to get his input and invited him to
come to the meeting and not because he's the Mayor's husband, because of his
expertise in the area and I know in looking at to sit down and say let's look at -- let's look
at this, what do we really need to do as far as that first analysis take on it. So, out of
that the students, then -- actually, when they -- when they kind of listed all these other
things of saying it was kind of the broader brush and the broader brush of saying here is
some realities and they went out and looked at some comparable, other areas around
the country and so said we said what could -- what could this mean to northwest
Meridian and the bio -- if you look at bio energy technology industries, most of you have
been to the Salt Lake corridor, if you want to look at what's driven the Salt Lake corridor
when even the tech side went down, what was driving it's been the Neutraceutical bio
life sciences field and we sit here with entities that you will all know here from the
Simplots to the people out there to the University of Idaho's program, a lot of the things
that are there that give us an opportunity to look at it. So, these are positions of saying
of where that is northwest -- and I'm going to interject right now, it was interesting in our
meeting with the developers, they said to me, they said, well, we kind of got in this
general discussion and they said, Phil, is it really just the northwest, is it truly a corridor
-- is it really part of this beautifully planned -- I don't see it on here tonight -- the Ten
Mile, they said here is a Ten Mile corridor and they said if we look at this as a more
economic corridor, what drives what? It's sort of like if you still got developments and if
you still have a plan that the city's approved and we have and we know where we have
seen the attraction of the Ten Mile whole master plan, can that be part of that -- part of
that whole corridor to drive an economic engine that puts the right kind of jobs, the right
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kind of quality of life that we'd like, and all of a sudden you go, wow, you know, I do
have a dream. It's kind of like we have the infrastructure, we got those pieces there, but
what can we use to drive that industry towards it. So, some of the industries that you
would say you would target would be bio energy technology industries, the
Neutraceutical medical -- guess what, I happen to bring it up now, they help to feed
each other in a community like us, we'd end up having the health science tech corp over
here. We got the bio sciences related to -- and guess what, to go to the North Carolina
triangle people think you just have hospitals -- no, you don't. You got the hospitals, the
bio sciences, the Neutraceutical, you got a lot of the other things that are all linked into.
So, I'd even say in today's economic times I'm recommending to Council that I want to
and I want to continue to pursue and say to come back and say here's a -- here's a
potential of something that has very strong meaning to us, has an opportunity to drive
that job growth and so what I'm doing is I'm looking -- I'm actually looking at pushing
forward on that whole business plan white paper and I'm looking at -- actually, I'm
attracting -- I'm contracting with Jan to help me do part of that thing, because he already
has connections to the University of Idaho, so that we can come back and say here is --
here is an execution plan and looking at the steps. We are not going to do it unilaterally
without, as Derek O'Neil was contacting me and Frank is there, we have all known the
realties and one of the realities we know we are going to have to face -- and, Frank, I'm
picking on you because you're here tonight -- but Frank said to the point -- he said to us
that day -- he said, Phil -- he said, Phil, all of that sounds good, but what are we going to
do when it comes to some of the attractions? We got the state on board, do we need to
get some of the legislative issues? The answer is we got to create part of the story and
the opportunity, so they see how that impact can be on it. It's got that combination of
bio ag, it's got a lot of the things that are at the roots of our community, but it's got a lot
a things that go to the future of it. And so I would say to you -- I think it's -- I'm very
pleased and I think we should be thankful and the Mayor and everybody did give the
appreciation to NNU, they did this free of charge, you know, they went about this and it
was a great exercise for the students and we got a lot of commitment from a lot of
people about it. So, I would tell you maybe in summary when I was saying my update,
is I'm not -- I don't want to chase dreams, I want to change realities and I want us to
deal with the realities we deal with today and it comes from the back. We have a
chance to control our destiny -- well, we need to take the actions focused in those areas
where we have got part of that infrastructure and opportunity that we can control
ourselves and I think a lot of the -- the thing I would say, I don't find a lot of negativity.
Sure, every business is struggling, but I can tell you what, I don't want to take the hope
away from them and the excitement that they know we have a council and leadership,
just as I told the legislators that day that do care and they are looking at economic
excellence and I even said that to the legislature, we are looking at economic
excellence, not just economic development. So, with that I'd like to answer any
questions on any of the information in the packet or any questions I could answer.
De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none.
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Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Hoaglun: No question, just a comment that Phil does an excellent job before the
legislative interim committee on medical education and -- and he did do a change of
pace and I think that was a good thing. It really worked well. What was interesting was
he had spoken to them before and they had invited him back and I -- to hear what
Meridian is doing and 1 think they are very pleased to see a community step up and we
are not asking them to do something for us, but we are taking the initiative and moving
forward and now they are working to solve a problem and they have a community that's
willing to help them find a solution and I think that's very positive for this community and
Phil did an excellent job in that presentation.
Stiffler: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Any other comments?
Rountree: Madam Mayor, just a comment. This whole concept I think is unique. It's
exciting. If I'm a futurist and visioning, I think it can generate some real traction, but it is
going to take a lot of folks, from the legislature to the individual property owners to make
it happen and I think your initial study or your work plan feasibility study is the place to
start and, hopefully, that will coalesce the energies if we can get of all of these people
and actually see something start out there and I would hope relatively soon.
De Weerd: Well, Council, I -- Councilman Rountree and I were able to do a mobile
workshop and look at a community who is utilizing these type of industry cluster districts
in their own community and the economic growth and vitality even in this tight market
and tight economy, they are thriving and they are bringing investment, high paying jobs
to their community at a time where many communities are losing those jobs. So, this is
the right approach and we want to proceed with a strategic plan in moving forward and
making sure that it's not pie in the sky, that it is right for this valley, for Meridian, and we
can help define why -- why Meridian and I think that's important in moving forward and
in getting all the key stakeholders on board to make an investment of time at this point
to join us in making sure that this is realistic for Idaho. So, any other questions?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I would only add that one of the things that you try and do in marketing is find
what your differentiation is or what your specialization is and this particular concept may
be a new idea to many people and that actually can be an advantage. If there are -- if
there is nobody else within a thousand miles doing this, why shouldn't we, and I do
agree that the people that would really know whether they could make it work or not are
probably the developers and the landowners, but if we can convince them that this is
Meridian City Council
November 25, 2008
Page 12 of 75
just as good for them as the typical cookie cutter that we are doing everywhere else or
everybody is doing, then, this can become a differentiator from Meridian that could be a
draw for a hundred years. It could be great.
De Weerd: Anything further from Council? Thank you, Phil.
Stiffler: Thank you.
2. Economic Development Coordinator. Agreement with
Virtus Enterprises, Inc.:
De Weerd: And thank you, Frank, for being the Guinea pig and his example. Okay.
Item 6-A-2. You have an agreement in front of you. Legal has reviewed this
agreement, as well as our scope of work and it is in front of you for approval.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I have not seen the agreement and it is not in our packet.
De Weerd: It was in the packet last week.
Holman: Madam Mayor, that may have been our mistake, burning it from last week's
meeting to this one, but we just thought there was something that was going to be
presented at the meeting, since we didn't have anything in here, so that was probably
the clerk's mistake.
De Weerd: It was just pulled off the last week's so that this presentation could be --
could accompany it. So, Council, what would you like to do?
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I don't know if legal counsel or city clerk or yourself have the
bottom line particulars on that agreement.
De Weerd: It's -- nothing has changed, other than some of the scope to update it from
the last year's scope. The numbers have not changed. They are no increases.
Holman: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, just moved that into this week's
Consent Agenda in your packets if you need to pull it up and look at it.
Baird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Baird.
Meridian City Council
November 25, 2008
Page 13 of 75
Baird: Members of the Council, the meat of the agreement is in the scope of services
which is at the end. It's a detailed three page attachment. Difficult to summarize, but it
appears to be very comprehensive.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Seeings how I'm the one that raised the question and I don't like approving
contracts that we haven't read or amendments of something, as long as Ted feels
comfortable with it.
Baird: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Bird, Mr. Nary worked
on this directly and he's okay with it, that's why it was on your agenda last week, so with
his endorsement I think you're good to go.
Bird: It's a one year contract; right?
De Weerd: Yes.
Baird: It's based on the standard form professional services agreement that the
purchasing department uses and everything's covered.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: With that I move we approve the contract agreement with Virtus Enterprises,
Incorporated.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Madam Clerk, will you,
please, call roll.
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: Okay. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Item 6 -- oh, before I move to Item 6-13, 1 have a little presentation to do.
This is so cool. I would like to ask Mr. Baird to, please, join me down here. At our
grand opening for the City Hall we recognized a handful of key staff members that
helped make this a reality and Mr. Baird was sick and so I did want do give an
opportunity to publicly thank Mr. Baird for the roll that he played in bringing this building
Meridian City Council
November 25, 2008
Page 14 of 75
-- I'll read this. In appreciation for your dedication to the building of the new City Hall,
2008, it's just one of our commemorative coins for the city and it is a small token for a
ginormous -- ginormous -- it's also a word I told you was really in the dictionary -- the
task that you helped us complete and we greatly appreciate the roll that you played.
Baird: Thank you very much.
B. Planning Department:
1. Budget Amendment for Valley Regional Transit for
$8,402.00:
De Weerd: I know that wasn't on the agenda, Council, but I did take the privilege of the
chair to add it. Item 6-B under our Planning Department, I'll turn this -- well, it's under
planning, but, Pete, I will go ahead and do this. You have in front of you a budget
amendment for VRT for the amount of 8,402 dollars. You were given a presentation
two weeks ago -- or maybe it was just last week from VRT. This is a result of increased
ridership on the transit system. You did vote and approve this amount. There was
discussion afterwards on where this amount would come out of. It came out of your line
item in the City Council funds for money set aside for special amounts like this. So, we
have brought this official amendment in front of you to authorize my signature on and
the transfer of that line item. So, Council, any questions or discussion?
Rountree: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we approve the budget amendment for VRT in amount of 8,402.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second. Any discussion. Hearing none,
Madam Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Council, I would also share with you on these budget amendments from this
next month forward you will only be seeing these on workshops and on those
workshops on the -- we have revised the budget amendment form, so when you look at
this you will see a recommendation on if it's a line item transfer or if it's a new money
Meridian City Council
November 25, 2008
Page 15 of 75
request, the line item we are suggesting it come out of or if it's new money, that would
also be noted on there. We want to take the guessing work out of this. So, just wanted
to let you know that we talked about it at our directors meeting and we are moving
forward under that -- that new process.
C. Police Department:
1. Budget Amendment for Community Services
Coordinator for the Drug Free Communities Grant for
$3,950.00:
De Weerd: Okay. Item 6-C under Department -- or our police department.
Overton: Good evening, Madam Mayor, Members of Council. You should have before
you tonight a budget amendment for 3,950 dollars. Simply put, this ended up being
really kind of a finance oversight that we are correcting. We put in for these funds two
years ago for a grant that we did not get. We put in for them again last year for a grant
we did get and finance is very efficient, they realized -- they realized it was a one time
expense and, unfortunately, subtracted out the year that we actually got it. So, we had
to go back in and add these funds back in to fulfill the grant that we now have. As I
said, it was something that we recognize with finance. They even were nice enough to
do the budget amendment for me. So, with that, if I -- any questions I'll answer them for
you.
De Weerd: Wow. You had a special consideration there from finance, uh?
Overton: They don't admit a mistake. They didn't admit a mistake, but this is as close
as I'm going to get.
Bird: I was going to say, you didn't get a full disclosure.
Overton: That's correct.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions for Lieutenant Overton?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Do I have a motion?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Meridian City Council
November 25, 2008
Page 16 of 75
Bird: I move we approve the budget amendment for community services coordinator for
the drug free communities grant for 3,950 dollars.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Hearing none,
Madam Clerk, roll call.
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion Carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Overton: Thank you.
D. Purchasing Department: Approve Multiple Change Order for
Additional Work for Not to Exceed Amounts for a Total Amount
of $38,632.00:
1. AATronics Budgeted Contract Amendment No. 3 for
$3,018.00 (Owner Initiated & Architect Changes):
2. American Wallcover Budgeted Contract Amendment No.
6 for $528.00 (Owner Initiated Change):
3. Architectural Building Supply Budgeted Contract
Amendment No. 6 for $1,603.00 (Owner Initiated &
Architect Requested Change):
4. Advanced Sign Budgeted Contract Amendment No. 1 for
$4,542.00 (Owner Requested Changes):
5. Axelsen Concrete Budgeted Contract Amendment No. 1
for $12, 298.00 (Contractor / Architect / Owner Initiated
Changed):
6. Buss Mechanical Budgeted Contract Amendment No. 5
for $5,855.00 (Architect / Deign & Owner Initiated
Change):
7. Cobblestone Construction Budgeted Contract
Amendment No. 2 for $2,175.00 (Architect / Design /
Owner Initiated Changes):
8. Commercial Painting Budgeted Contract Amendment
Meridian City Council
November 25, 2008
Page 17 of 75
No. 2 for $1,100.00 (Architect Initiated Changes):
9. Paige Mechanical Group Budgeted Contract Amendment
No. 1 for $2,132.00 (Owner Requested & Architect /
Design Initiated Changes):
10. SBI Budgeted Contract Amendment No. 5 for $4,700.00
(Owner Initiated Changes):
11. Seal Co. Budgeted Contract Amendment No. 4 for
$418.00 (Architect / Design / Contractor Initiated
Changes):
12. TTE Preconn Budgeted Contract Amendment No. 4 for
$263.00 (Architect / Design / Contractor Initiated
Changes):
De Weerd: Thank you. Item 6-D, our Purchasing Department, Mr. Watts.
Watts: Good evening, Madam Mayor, Council Members. Tonight you have 12 change
orders. They are budgeted change orders to the City Hall project. The majority of these
are all owner or architect requested changes. Total amount on the 12 changes is
38,632. They are listed individually. You should have a copy of them as well in your
packet. Here for any questions.
De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: None.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move that we approve the change orders, 12 of them, for a total of 38,632
dollars on the City Hall building.
Hoaglun: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve these items. Any discussion?
Madam Clerk, roll call.
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
Meridian City Council
November 25, 2008
Page 18 of 75
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. can
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Before we move on and not having a dictionary here, I wonder if Mr. Watts can tell
me what -- on Item 6, who is d -e -i -g -n? You know, our computers have spell checks.
De Weerd: They do not.
Bird: I couldn't let that pass, Keith.
De Weerd: It might be a new word in the dictionary, like ginormous.
Bird: That's what I said, I don't have my dictionary here, so I was going to -- I wanted
somebody to correct me if I was wrong.
De Weerd: Thank you. I think we found our spell check. It's Mr. Bird.
Item 7: Items Moved from Consent Agenda:
De Weerd: Okay. There were no items moved from the Consent Agenda.
Item 8: Continued Public Hearing from October 7, 2008: AP 08-003 Request
for City Council Review for an Appeal of Director's Determination to deny
alternative compliance to allow a portion of the former Idaho Truss site to
be used for shared parking for the Broadway Integrated Project (CZC
08-018) by Ward Schwider — 130 East Broadway Avenue:
De Weerd: So, we will continue on to Item 8, which is a continued public hearing from
October 7th on AP 08-003. 1 will ask for staff comment.
Friedman: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Council Members. This is the fourth request
from the applicants who were denying a director's -- or appealing a director's
determination on our denial of their alternative compliance request for parking in the Old
Town district. The original hearing date for this was July 1st, 2008, and at that time
Council directed the applicant to acquire a long term lease of the site, which was the old
Idaho Trust site. Since that time they have requested continuation September 9th and
October 7th public hearings respectively. To our knowledge the applicant has not
secured a lease. We actually didn't receive an official request for continuance, other
than an e-mail to Mr. Parsons and we do not see them in the audience tonight.
De Weerd: Okay. Is there a representative here this evening? Seeing none --
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November 25, 2008
Page 19 of 75
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: -- Council? Yes, Mr. Bird.
Bird: With that I would move that we close the public hearing on AP 08-003.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing on Item 8. All
those in favor say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move that we remove AP 08-003 as an active agenda item from the City
Council's agenda.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to remove this item as an active agenda item
from --
Baird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Baird: Before you take action -- pardon my interruption. I might suggest that since you
have an appeal you might decide to take -- take final action on that tonight based on the
information that's in front of you.
Bird: Would it be best for us to deny it?
Baird: I beg your pardon?
Bird: Would it be best for us to deny it?
Baird: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Bird, I can't tell you
what's best for you to do, I just wanted to remind you --
Bird: I think you just did. I withdraw my motion.
De Weerd: Okay. So, is it an option to remove it from the agenda?
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November 25, 2008
Page 20 of 75
Baird: Madam Mayor, that's correct as well. You just have to re -notice it up when it
would come back. It leaves you in sort of a -- one more thing to track, but that could
certainly -- could certainly happen or it could continued to another date certain.
De Weerd: And the applicant would have to post and pay for any public noticing.
Baird: If any would be required on an appeal of this nature.
De Weerd: Oh. Okay.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mrs. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Question for Mr. Baird. If we were to table this, does it -- that still keeps it
active, but it won't be coming back up time and time again. I mean is that an option, just
as we are looking at options?
Baird: Madam Mayor, that's, essentially, what the motion -- the original motion was and
I apologize for interrupting. That may, in fact, be the best path to pursue. I don't know.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, I did have a motion and a second. Was there --
Bird: I would withdraw that and make a motion to deny it, if that's what would be the
best. I just -- we played with it long enough.
De Weerd: Well, I think, Mr. Bird, we know how dealing with the Union Pacific Railroad
is. Nothing is easy. So, it is a choice of whether you want to remove it and ask them to
officially request to put it back on the agenda, if that's when that happens or you can
make the motion to deny. But right now I do have an active motion, because your
withdrawal did not get a second. So, at this point I would need to seek your direction.
Bird: Leave the motion on, then. I have no problem with that. Or withdraw it.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further discussion, Mr. Zaremba?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor, as a procedural matter, if we cannot withdraw the original
motion, I would just signal to everybody I would vote no on it and request that the
second motion be made. My feeling is that the right thing would be to deny it for the
purpose of upholding the director's original ruling on it. If the applicants are able to work
something out with UP and reapply, I have no problem considering that. I hope they are
able to. But I think it would be wiser at this point to uphold the director and take it off the
agenda. So, my signal is if we need to vote on the original motion, I would vote no and
ask the maker to make his second motion after we do that.
De Weerd: Well, it's nice to know everyone's vote before we do it. Okay.
Meridian City Council
November 25, 2008
Page 21 of 75
Rountree: So, are we going to have a substitute motion or are we going to vote --
Bird: Are you going to pull your second on the original one?
Rountree: I don't need to if we are going to vote on the motion.
Zaremba: I didn't second it. I don't believe.
De Weerd: Well, that wasn't the question.
Rountree: I seconded the first motion.
Bird: Checking the first one, we can --
De Weerd: I'm glad we have a lot of chairs tonight.
Rountree: And I think we are discussing the — so, nobody asked for call for question at
this point, so I guess I'd throw that out. If somebody wants a substitute motion. Mr. Bird
suggested one, but didn't make it, so it couldn't have been seconded. If he wants to
make that as a substitute motion, he could make it and see if there is a second.
Bird: I will make a substitute motion that we uphold the appeal of the director's
determination to deny AP 08-003.
Zaremba: I'll second that.
Bird: Now the question.
De Weerd: We have a substitute motion. Any discussion? Okay. Madam Clerk, will
you call roll.
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: Okay. All ayes. Motion carried. That was a substitute to the original.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 9: Continued Public Hearing from November 5, 2008: CPA 08-003
Request for Comprehensive Plan Amendment to modify the Future Land
Use Map by changing the land use designation from Medium Density
Residential to Mixed Use -Community for approximately 94 acres for
Volterra Commercial by Primeland Investment Group, LLC — west of
North Ten Mile Road and north of West McMillan Road:
Item 10: Continued Public Hearing from November 5, 2008: RZ 08-004
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November 25, 2008
Page 22 of 75
Request for Rezone of 93.64 acres from L -O (Limited Office) and R-4
(Medium Low -Density Residential) to C -G (General Retail and Service
Commercial) (25.10 acres), L -O (Limited Office) (10.70 acres), C -C
(Community Business) (37.84 acres) and R-15 (Medium -High Density
Residential) (20 acres) zones for Volterra Mixed Use by Primeland
Development Company, LLP — west of North Ten Mile Road and north of
West McMillan Road:
Item 11: Public Hearing: MDA 08-002 Request to Modify the recorded
Development Agreement for Volterra Subdivision AND create a new
Development Agreement for a mixed use / commercial employment area
for Volterra Mixed Use by Primeland Development Company, LLP — west
of N. Ten Mile Road and north of W. McMillan Road:
De Weerd: Okay. Items 9, 10 and 11 are continued public hearings from November 5th
on CPA 08-003, RZ 08-004, and MDA 08-002. 1 will open these continued and the new
public hearing with staff comments.
Friedman: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Council Members. The proposal before you is a
Comprehensive Plan amendment, rezone, and development agreement modification for
mixed use and commercial development at the northwest comer of McMillan Road and
Ten Mile Road. Mr. Parsons will be presenting the staff report and recommendation.
Parsons: Thank you, Pete. Madam Mayor and Members of the Council, as Pete
mentioned, this is a Comprehensive Plan amendment rezone and DA modification. The
map before you is a zoning map, shows the area proposed for this change. As you can
see, you can see this subject property has been platted before back in 2005. You see a
portion of it with C -G, L -O and residential R-4 zoned lots. Here is an aerial of the site.
At this time, again, it's all agricultural, vacant at this time. I would point out to the
Council that the intersection improvements at McMillan and Ten Mile have been
completed and so that portion has been done to move forward. Here is what -- if the
Comp Plan amendment is approved tonight, here is what it would look like. Currently to
the left you see what it is not, today's Comp Plan standards and, then, in the right-hand
side you see what a mixed use community designation -- what the change would look
like. The other thing I would point out to you is the applicant has chose not to
incorporate the C -G zoned portion in with the Comprehensive Plan amendment, so he's
elected to keep that zoned -- or land use as commercial and zoned C -G as well. This is
the concept plan that was submitted with the CPA and the rezone. You can see here
there is a mix of uses for the site. Sorry we don't have a pointer anymore, but if you can
follow my mouse here, this portion of the concept plan is slated to be zoned R-15 and
that would be more of your assisted living and condominium projects there. Office and
C -C zoned property here and, then, office with buffer along the Bainbridge project here.
And, then, this portion here would be C -C as well. And, then, coming down along Ten
Mile and, then, at the end of that C -G zoned portion would remain your typical general
commercial retail type uses. The applicant is really trying to market this similar to a
Silverstone and EI Dorado project where you would have a mix of uses, an employment
Meridian City Council
November 25, 2008
Page 23 of 75
center, similar to what Mr. Stiffler was commenting to you on tonight. This area is part
of that BEC corridor that he had mentioned to you in the earlier presentation. So, one of
the requirements that -- the applicant has submitted photos, basically, depicting some of
the uses on the site. So, here is the assisted living, some of the big box that they are
proposing there on the comer of McMillan and Ten Mile. Here is some of the general
businesses. Your medical tech buildings. Hotel uses out there. Even possibly a
hospital, skilled nursing facility, health club services and these photos were taken --
primarily taken from buildings within Meridian. My understanding is there was some
other photos taken from additional buildings in the -- from Arizona. And, then, here is,
again, some other retail elevations. And, then, again some of their senior living
housing. Again, with this -- because there is a development agreement modification
and because when you guys -- when this site was previously approved back in 2006
that development agreement had different stipulations and so now since this project has
changed significantly from what was approved in 2005, staff felt it appropriate that they
remove at least the mixed use community potion or the rezone portion of the property
before you tonight, remove that from the original DA and, then, incorporate a new DA
for the 111 acre site with the rezone. So, with the DA provision before you -- it is not a
comprehensive list as everything within that DA -- requirement for the DA, but it's really
just to give you some of the meat and potatoes of that -- of the new DA required for this
Volterra mixed use project. Again, the C -G portion will have a minimum six buildings,
nothing to exceed 250,000 square feet. And, then, maximum allowable square footage
of 558,000 square feet. The C -C zoned property -- again, a memo, the 11 buildings, not
exceed 200,000 square feet, with a total square footage of 364,000 square feet. The L-
O zoned portion shall consist of five buildings, with no building exceeding 20,000 square
feet, with a maximum nonresidential square footage of 120,000 square feet and the R
zoned property shall consist of three buildings and minimum of density of eight
dwellings to the acre or -- and maximum of 75 buildings, provided it does not exceed the
density requirements of the R-15 zoning district, with no one building exceeding
130,000 square feet. Also, on the concept plan the applicant did generally depict
locations for five plaza areas to add some of that pedestrian connectivity there. So,
staff felt it proper and the Commission held with that recommendation to at least have
the applicant construct a minimum of five plaza areas and the connective pathway to
connect those plaza areas and, again, staff has tied the applicant -- at least the
elevations, those photos to the DA, so that future buildings will be constructed generally
consistent with those photos. And, lastly, the subject site does have a pathway that
runs along the northern boundary of the site and so staff felt it appropriate to have a DA
provision in there requiring the applicant to coordinate with the parks department on the
location of that pathway and their design standards for that pathway. Excuse me.
Things brought up at the hearing. The Commission did recommend approval of the
CPA at the August 14th hearing and recommended approval of the rezone at the
October 2nd hearing. Summary of that hearing, speaking in favor was Comell Larsen.
No other written testimony or opposition was recorded against the project. Key issues
discussed by Commission -- really nothing was too disconcerting for the Commission.
Everyone felt it was appropriate uses proposed for the site and approved of the concept
plan and the applicant has sent a letter to staff in agreement with the staff report and the
conditions of the DA. So, those aren't a topic of discussion from their standpoint. And,
Meridian City Council
November 25, 2008
Page 24 of 75
then, I guess the only outstanding issues for tonight is is this really an appropriate use
for a mixed use community designation and is rezoning the property from R-4 and L -O
to R-15, L -O, C -C, and C -G appropriate for the site and in the best interest of the city.
And with that staff would stand for any questions Mayor and Council may have.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions for staff at this time?
Bird: I don't have any.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Bill, could you display the map that shows what the zoning is proposed to be
and put it in context of the surrounding.
Parsons: Yeah. We don't have an exhibit that shows what the proposed zoning will be,
but I will try to kind of depict this as best as I can and describe it to you as I can,
Councilman Rountree. This portion here that's currently zoned C -G, it's to remain C -G.
And, then, if you can see my -- my mouse arrow going up, the C -G portion will run up
here and, then, move towards this area and, then, end about right here. So, you have
about 25 acres -- see if I have that in my notes for you here. Yes, I do. So, the C -G
portion of the property, there is roughly 25 acres that will be zoned C -G. The L -O
portion is 10.7 acres and that roughly runs along the northern boundary located this
way, so -- and so that provides a nice transition from this approved Bainbridge
Subdivision to this denser mixed use project here. I will also go to the concept plan.
That would probably be better to depict that. So, basically, anything north of this road
would be zoned L -O. This road -- this north -south road this way depicts the C -G zoned
properties. So, basically, you'd have that at the center line of this roadway heading
south -- heading west back to the second roadway heading north -south and, then,
following the center line of that roadway to McMillan and that would be zoned C -G. This
portion -- this centrally located portion here from the future park site to the west -- so,
from this boundary along this roadway going back against that C -G zoned boundary
and, then, again that northwest boundary, that would be zoned C -G and that's roughly
37.84 acres. And, then, again, as I mentioned, this kind of the southwest comer here
will be zoned R-15 and that's your assisted living, possibly retirement type condominium
units. If that helps any. If that helps clarify anything or helps confuse the situation.
Rountree: Madam Mayor? On that last piece that you talked about, the R-15, is
adjacent to an R-4, I'm not sure that I'm picking up that -- how the transition is made.
I'm not sure I'm seeing in the development agreement -- and I'm just trying to anticipate
some issues that we have been struggling with the reality of these things being next
door to one another right now. How do we assure in the development agreement that
this R-15 is one of the low level, not multiple stories, and is of a quality that you
probably would see in the lower density in the R-4 as neighbors. I just see that
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November 25, 2008
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apartment argument rearing its ugly head for not only us, but the future developer
and/or the future owner of that property.
Parsons: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilman Rountree, certainly it's
at the discretion of the Council to modify that DA provision, but staff has at least tried to,
in their R-15, at least in that zoning, tried to put some kind of density requirement on
that. The R-15 zone I believe has a maximum height limit on structures. I don't recall if
it's 35 feet or 40 feet. So, there are assurances there that that -- you won't have too
high of a structure. You have a collector road -- if you look at the concept plan, there is
a collector road that will buffer against those residences and typically what the applicant
is proposing with the -- at least the assisted living from of the last couple hearings that
we have had before you, there have been projects that come before you that have
proposed assisted living and I don't recall a lot of opposition to those projects moving
into the -- into neighborhoods.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, that's because we haven't had them built yet.
Friedman: Madam Mayor, Council Members, just one addition to that. I think in looking
at the provisions of this development agreement where it consists of a minimum of three
buildings and has some density minimums on there, if the Council would be more
comfortable you could probably include language in there that other than the large
assisted living complex of -- other residences in there, have a unit limitation on them, so
that you don't get a series of eight-plexes or four-plexes or something like that. And
perhaps after the applicant makes their presentation, we can revisit that, so we can
maybe craft some language that would at least assure your comfort level on that.
Rountree: Thanks, Pete.
De Weerd: And, Pete, I guess I don't remember in the development that was approved
in the Ten Mile area if -- oh, south of Franklin Road and west of Ten Mile, it's the only
residential piece. It's, actually, the only development that's been approved in that area
between Ten Mile and Black Cat south of Franklin. There were apartments or higher
density in there and we did a requirement that there be a plat note and there would be
signage, so that any future residences would know what the intent of that property was
for. I don't know how it was worded, maybe Mr. Baird might know, but that's something
as well that can be put on the development agreement. But I guess one of the things
that we found from just the square mile to the east of there is when that was parceled
out, because it came in as a planned development -- when that was parceled out that
was not included on the plat that the homeowners got when they closed on their homes
and I think that was really what served the reaction that we got.
Friedman: Madam Mayor, Council Members, yes, I agree, I think -- you know, we put a
note on the plat and that's fine and well, the plat gets recorded and most home buyers
never look at the plat or it's the unusual home buyer that does the level of research to
investigate what the plat notes -- heck, they hardly ever even read the covenants, I will
bet you. So, I think the Mayor has a good point and we would need to craft some kind
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November 25, 2008
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of a condition that would at least try to get as much full disclosure as we could and that
might be posting a sign on the adjacent properties. Given, you know, the vagaries of
the market and time, you don't know how long those signs last and so forth and at least
we have made an effort. We could still put a note on the plat and any other suggestions
the applicant might have for at least getting as much full disclosure about the future
uses of the property as we could.
De Weerd: Well, -- and I believe the applicant, Mr. Variel, and when they sold lots in the
subdivision -- or in his development that's kitty comer from that in Bridgetower, that
included the whole vision for that area. So, not that we are questioning it, but we learn
along the way, so -- any other questions from Council?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: On the concept plan, would you identify for us the access points.
Parsons: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I apologize, I did leave those out.
Full access at -- north of this site on -- so, the applicant is proposing three access points
onto north Ten Mile along the north here, which is consistent with the approval in '05
and aligns with a stub street -- or aligns with the street to the east of this, the Verona
project. They have full access here for the commercial portion and I believe this is right -
in, right -out at this location and the southern portion for the commercial development.
And, then, you have access again for that commercial -- three access points along West
McMillan Road, this portion for the C -G, full access for this local collector road and,
again, full access with this roadway. As you can see, those two align with the future
collectors proposed for the Volterra South project, which was -- goes back in '05 with
the original Volterra project. So, the two access closest to the intersection, one on
McMillan, one on Ten Mile, those are both proposed for right -in, right -out?
Parsons: Let me --
Zaremba: That isn't quite the way it reads in the notes, though. That's why I'm
checking.
Parsons: One right -in, right -out only on West McMillan. And, then, full access for the
public street connection, the two public streets there along West McMillan.
Zaremba: So, the southern most access on Ten Mile, we will discuss with the applicant,
but that's not being proposed as a right -in, right -out?
Parsons: You mean on North Ten Mile? Excuse me, Madam Mayor --
Zaremba: The one where your pointer is.
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November 25, 2008
Page 27 of 75
Parsons: Right there. Yes. That is the right -in, right -out only.
Zaremba: Okay.
De Weerd: Okay. Anything further from Council?
Bird: I have nothing.
De Weerd: Okay. I would ask the applicant's representative to the come forward.
If you will, please, state your name and address for the record.
Larsen: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. My name is Cornell
Larsen. Address is 210 Murray in Garden City. I'm here tonight representing the
applicant on the project. We have been about nine months or so working with staff and
-- and the applicant on the project and we are very happy with the staff report and the
approval from the Planning and Zoning Commission. We have no real issues with the
staff report at all. I would be happy to go through the project a little bit with you, if you'd
like to do that, or answer questions. However you would like to go. Talk just a little bit
about the access points and I'm not sure I can make this work, but this one -- the south
one on -- on Ten Mile Road is a right -in, right -out. The three on McMillan were
proposed as full accesses. Because the one closest to Ten Mile actually aligns with
another street that we are going to propose on the southwest comer of the -- that
intersection in the future. The project is conceived to have a large retail user in the
corner of McMillan and Ten Mile. Along Ten Mile as you go up we have looked at
hotels and other business applications. Our intent is to have a large employer in the
facility at some point. We have shown that -- and, again, I'm not sure how this work, but
somewhere right in here.
Holman: If you just push -- I'm song. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, on the
top of the board you will see some keys that have a highlighter on them, maybe pick the
red one and push that button.
Larsen: Okay.
Holman: And now try writing with that.
Larsen: Okay.
Friedman: We can drive it from here, Cornell, is you just show us where to go.
Larsen: Okay. This would be the -- this would be the area of the large employer and,
then, directly to the west of that -- this area was conceived to have some offices with an
open court area. Trying to attach -- or connect a pathway going to the -- to the -- I'm
doing not good at all with this. Going to the north and south. There is also to the west
of the area that I was just speaking of, there is a park in this area that's planned, so
there is an open park there that would inner -tie to the businesses as well. As we move
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November 25, 2008
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down into the R area, we had looked at some smaller offices along the north, along that
road, and as we move farther south, these would be more of a senior living facility,
might be gated. They have done several of these around the city. They have a garage
in the center and, then, four living units in the different quadrants and, then, as we move
south from into the last facility there, we looked at a skilled nursing or an assisted living
facility that would be part of that comer there, giving us an area that would -- would
buffer a little bit of the living area from the -- from the -- or the living area, single family
units to the west would buffer that a little bit from the big box user in the comer. With
that I'd be happy to answer any questions. I think we have interconnected the pathways
and tried to -- to facilitate some of the requirements that we were looking for in
connectivity of paths and roads. We have also worked with the applicant -- or the owner
to the north and have some flexibility on where we might put the access point there to
service into their development.
De Weerd: Hey, you're getting pretty handy with that little pen there.
Larsen: Actually, I think Bill helping me out.
De Weerd: He's helping you out. You can't teach an old dog new tricks. Okay.
Council, questions?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: First off, my comments to staff is I hope we are not taking an indication of my
concern about this particular applicant. My concern is that -- though I think there is
some, there is not as certainty that this will be developed by the current applicant. The
potential that it could change hands. And that's when we get askew of what we
understand it is going to be on and what ultimately comes in. So, I want to get this tied
down pretty well. I also wanted to express my appreciation for the work that you did
with the new intersection out there, so -- that's great -- that's a great improvement. But,
again, my concern is that we get this information conveyed as best we can to the folks
that might be living out there in the future, that we get the information conveyed well in
the development agreement. So, if it, by chance, does change hands, there is not this
confusion that we get in with new owner, new neighbors, and potentially new City
Council, because it's been a bit of extra time on everybody's part in some instances
where we have not done that. So, if you have got any suggestions how we might do
that, I'm just asking and hope -- hope that there is a willingness on your part to
understand where I'm coming from anyway to tie it down.
Larsen: Madam Mayor, Councilman Rountree, we have in the past on some other
projects posted those, as you had mentioned in your previous comments along the
boundary saying that -- what they would be and what the intent of that area was. That
seems to have worked well, at least the neighbors are aware of that, as long as you get
the signs fairly close to the road, to the back of the property lines, it works pretty well.
Meridian City Council
November 25, 2008
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They do have to be replaced, because they get tom down from time to time or
destroyed. So, there is some -- but there is willingness on our part to work with you on
those conditions. We do want to -- we won't be developing the property to the west and
so we'd like to make sure that the neighbors are aware of what's going on, on the site
we are proposing now.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, just a follow up. Another thing that would be helpful is a
sense of timing. You know, if, in fact, this is there before we see anything to the west,
then, it may not become an issue. So, are you looking at within the next three years or
are you waiting for the market to be just right and we don't know when that is? And I
wish I could tell you, Frank. Mine's not any good either.
Larsen: Madam Mayor, Councilman Rountree, we, obviously, would like to go as fast s
we could on it, but, again, market conditions sort of dictate that. There has been some
interest in -- in some skilled nursing in that area. There has been some interest in some
senior living in that area. So, if it would move sort of move forward fairly quickly and
given the economic times we are probably at least a year, maybe a little longer, away
from -- from even being able to start some of the improvements and moving forward, we
need to, obviously, your approval on the comp plan amendment rezone development
agreement and try to work through the next year and see if we can get something going
there.
Rountree: Thank you.
Larsen: Thank you.
De Weerd: Any other questions from Council?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: At the risk of repeating what Councilman Rountree has already said, I just
want to add that I share his concern, not necessarily about this applicant, but we have
instances where you describe something that we all like the result of that is it needs to
be an R-15 once we designate it as an R-15, some future owner of it says, oh, I have
got R-15, there is all these things I can do. So, I would suggest that there may be
things that we could do in a development agreement that may be what you are already
proposing to do, but don't leave us so open to what a possible future owner might
change to. Are we covering that?
Friedman: Madam Mayor, Council Members, we do have a provision in the
development agreement before you tonight that binds the applicant to the site plan that
is going to be an exhibit to the development agreement. In addition, if it's the Council's
pleasure through your motion we could also add some language that would place a
requirement on them to put some form of on-site signage that would at least prevent an
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November 25, 2008
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opportunity of any members of the public to have some awareness that it is what needs
to occur in the future there and, of course, if the project were to change hands, if you
will, and there was another concept thought about, then, that concept would have to
come back to Council -- any Council for a development agreement modification.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I think you're addressing my concem. I have been concerned that concepts
are not necessarily final and if we are able to tie the concept in with a development
agreement, then, I'm comfortable.
Friedman: And, Madam Mayor, Council, the multi -family development also requires
conditional use permit approval and, in addition, if we don't have it in the development
agreement now we should have it in the development agreement that development on
the site should be subject to any design review regulations that are in effect, such time
as they make building permit application.
De Weerd: Okay.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I, too, hope we can -- you know, I want the development agreement to spell out
everything, but I believe what -- Comell's word is as good as going to the bank and I
was just sitting there thinking, knowing this applicant for 45 years or better, I don't know
of any project that they have ever sold without developing it themselves. So, I would
have a -- I don't have the concem that I have on other projects regarding this.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions or comments for the applicant?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Comell has heard some suggested additions to the development agreement.
Are any of those onerous to you or the applicant you're representing?
Larsen: Madam Mayor, Councilman Rountree, I think that we all understand that some
of those things will come back as a conditional use and those are okay with us. They
vary from time to time and concept plans in our mind are just concept plans, because
we -- as Silverstone and EI Dorado move the lot lines and things around so many times
it's almost not even funny and you may not even recognize it from the concept plan. But
it came out okay and so we -- we intend to work the same way on this, we just don't
Meridian City Council
November 25, 2008
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know in a commercial project who our final user is and as it goes through the -- from
start to end, the users may change and if some of the things Phil mentioned earlier in
the meeting come to fruition, some of our thoughts may change out there as well. So,
again, keep in mind it is a concept plan and we are trying to apply zoning to the concept
plan at this point in time to the best of our knowledge, so --
De Weerd: I think a lot of it is more -- as long as the intent doesn't change. And our
staff has tried to work out some of those bugs, but it's important that at least the intent
as portrayed in front of Council -- maybe some of the lot lines move or that sort of thing,
but it's the intent.
Larsen: Madam Mayor, the way we had asked -- we had requested the zoning was
some of the things that we had talked through with staff is what do you want to see for
buffers and where and what kind of uses do you want to see in there and what type of
things would be attractive to Meridian that are not here now that may be or we may
desire to have in this particular quadrant of the city, so a lot of the things we talk about
are things that we had discussed with staff about where some of those uses might go.
We ran that by them as we went through the planned concept, so our intent was to try to
put the best buffering items next to the residential areas that we could, work with the
park, keep the north boundary office oriented in case you get some residential up along
that boundary as well.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any other questions?
Bird: I have none, Mayor.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Larsen: Thank you.
De Weerd: This is a public hearing. Is there anyone who would like to provide
testimony on any of these items, nine, ten and 11? Okay. Any final comment from the
applicant? Council, any further information needed?
Bird: None from me.
De Weerd: If not, do I have a motion to close?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we close the public hearings on CPA 08-003, RZ 08-004, MDA 08-002.
Rountree: Second.
Meridian City Council
November 25, 2008
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De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearings on Items 9, 10
and 11. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Okay. Council?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move that we approve CPA 08-003 the Comprehensive Plan amendment for
Volterra Commercial by Primeland Investment Group, LLP, and to incorporate all staff,
applicant, and public comments.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 9. Any discussion? Madam
Clerk, roll call, please.
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Item 10.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I'd move we approve RZ 08-004, request for rezone of 93.64 acres from L -O,
limited office, and R-4 medium low density residential, to C -G on 25.10 acres. L -O on
10.70 acres. C -C on 37.84 acres and R-15 on 20 acres for Volterra Mixed Use by
Primeland Development, Incorporated, and to incorporate all staff, applicant, and public
testimony.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 10. Is there any discussion?
Seeing none, Madam Clerk.
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: Item 11.
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November 25, 2008
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Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move that we approve MDA 08-002, the request to modify the recorded
development agreement for Volterra Subdivision and create a new development
agreement for mixed use commercial employment area for Volterra Mixed Use by
Primeland Development Company, LLP, and to take staff, public, and applicant
testimony and apply it to the new development agreement and to make sure that signs
as the applicant agreed to are posted within the location of the development and that,
you know, the plat and everything as noted -- notes on it also.
Rountree: I will second that.
De Weerd: Discussion?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Would the maker of the motion also
agreement that at the development of future
applicable to this project and the intent as
buffering between uses here and neighboring
development agreement.
Bird: The maker can agree to that.
include a reference in the development
design review guidelines they would be
stated by Mr. Larsen to accommodate
uses would be -- be referenced in the
Rountree: Second agrees with the agreeable maker.
De Weerd: Aren't we agreeable tonight. Okay. Any further discussion? Seeing none,
Madam Clerk.
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 15: Public Hearing: AZ 08-005 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 73.10
acres from RUT in Ada County to R-15 (Medium High Density Residential)
(5.68 acres), L -O (Limited Office) (3.22 acres) and C -C (Community
Business) (30.72 acres) and C -G (General Retail and Service
Commercial) (33.47 acres) zoning districts for Meridian and Amity by
Hawkins Companies — Northwest Comer of West Amity Road and South
Meridian Road:
Meridian City Council
November 25, 2008
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Item 16: Public Hearing: VAR 08-008 Request for a Variance to UDC 11-3H-4
which prohibits new approaches from directly accessing a state highway
to allow 2 right -in / right -out access points (approximately 660 feet from
the north and south intersections) and 1 right -in / right -out / left -in access
point at the'/ mile to State Highway 69 / Meridian Road for Meridian and
Amity by Hawkins Companies — NWC of W. Amity Road and S. Meridian
Road, south of Hams Street:
De Weerd: Okay. Items 15 and 16 were requested to move above Item 12, so I will go
ahead and open public hearing AZ 08-004 and VAR 08-008. 1 understand these have
been requested to continue to March.
Friedman: Yes. Thank you, Madam Mayor, Council. I will address that for you. Just
by way of background, on September 23rd of this year Council approved a
Comprehensive Plan amendment for this site and that changed a portion of that site
from medium density residential to mixed use regional on our Comprehensive Plan
future land use map. The applicant, then, brought forth an annexation zoning request to
the Planning and Zoning Commission and at their hearing on October 16th of this year.
The Planning and Zoning Commission did recommend approval of the annexation and
zoning request to City Council, but in their recommendation they had recommended that
there only be one access to Meridian Road as depicted -- or as recommended by staff.
Subsequent to the Planning and Zoning Commission's action, the applicant submitted a
variance request to our restrictions on access to state highways, so we thought it would
be best to bring the annexation request and the variance request to you together. The
applicant did inform us that they wished to continue the variance until March of -- geez,
next year. Staff had discussed that with them and informed them that we were not
comfortable with bifurcating the application and that we would recommend to you that
you either continue the variance and the annexation request. They responded, then,
that if Council's implying not to continue the variance separately, then, they would just
like to proceed with the annexation and the variance application tonight.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, what's your direction?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: It would be my choice not to separate them. The default would be the
applicant's request to consider them both tonight, then. One man's opinion.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
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November 25, 2008
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Rountree: There is some degree of risk to the applicant that if things don't work out
quite as they anticipate with -- with ITD and the ultimate variance request, so I would
think that it's kind of a hand in glove deal.
De Weerd: Why don't we ask --
Rountree: I'd like to see them go together. But, again, I guess if the applicant's willing
to take the risk and do something on the application that might be acted on tonight and
only to have to change it in March, I guess that's the risk I see.
De Weerd: I guess at this point I'd just ask the applicant or the applicant's
representative to address this specific item. It seems like we will move forward, we will
have staff do their reports, et cetera. If you will, please, state your name and address
for the record.
Evans: Lance Evans. Hawkins Companies. 855 Broad Street. Suite 300. Boise,
Idaho. 83702.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Evans: We have requested the deferral on the variance only because of the staff report
that we received on Thursday that enumerated some things and there was some
politically -- I should say shifts in position in some of the previous meetings with ITD to
the letter that is in the packet and there is other items that we would just like the
opportunity that we think we can go back to ACHD and ITD and potentially -- potentially
get -- get in more agreement. We'd just like the opportunity to work on those. And
those issues are all specific to the access points and we realize we have to work
through those access points one way or the other, sooner or later. We do want to go
forward sooner, but we would also like to do proper diligence in working with those
agencies to get what we need. At the same time we don't want to delay the annexation
and zoning request, because it would -- we are afraid that we just need to keep that
process moving. We want to keep this project going forward as much as possible and
there really are minor issues on that project that I think we can work out here tonight.
So, that's where we are coming from.
De Weerd: Okay. Council? I think you have heard Council at least, too, say that they
would see those two going together or -- anyway, that's what I heard.
O'Very: Hi. Jason O'Very. 5537 North Brigadoon Avenue, Meridian, Idaho. 83646.
I'm also with Hawkins Companies. I think that the point -- the additional point, we just
want to say we didn't feel like we had to hear that, but I -- in our response to you I guess
at the Council's wishes it's both or nothing and we just want to be clear that that -- when
we spoke with staff we said, hey, look, we don't necessarily see that we have to have
the zoning annexation tied to the variance request for the access. We have been kind
of following some of the other projects and we have seen this Council make decisions
related to zoning and annexation and table a decision for -- or defer a decision as it
Meridian City Council
November 25, 2008
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related specifically to the access. So, our request in the letter we submitted to staff was
that is it possible that we can hear the zoning and annexation today? Let's take that
step forward. We recognize we have issues with the variance request for access and
give us the time to work with the fire department, police department, with ITD, with staff
again, showing how our proposed access drives, tapers, et cetera, are different than
what's existing out anywhere else on Eagle Road, et cetera, given the distance of the
taper, the width of the drive aisle, et cetera. So, our goal, really, is not to say, hey, hear
us or don't hear us, we really want to bring those two items separately to you and say
this is a great project for the City of Meridian, we want to get your support, bring it into
the City of Meridian and can we come back and present to you the variance at a
different time. And that's really what we'd like to do.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I still would keep them together and my preference, I guess, would be to hear
them tonight. I think we need to move forward on the variance as well. And my thinking
behind that is to let you know that it was the City of Meridian that initiated the agreement
with ITD about access to state highways. This Mayor and Council are the reason that
you're asking for the variance, not the other departments or ITD. So, it is germane to
the annexation question, in my opinion.
O'Very: I understand where you're coming from with that. Again, I also know that
Council has granted variances to that, specifically at Fairview and Eagle, and we are
trying to make sure that our presentation to you has the same merit that this Council
could get behind and support that variance access to that development. So, that is why
we are trying to keep those -- keep those items -- you know, we recognize the concern
that this Council would have, but we want to build that support for that. So, again, our
request would be to do -- to bring these to you separately and bring a great project that
we hope that this Council will see does belong to the City of Meridian and at the same
time give us that time to go work with these other agencies and, again, I understand
your position, Councilman Zaremba, at least I'm trying to read between the lines there
and say -- but let us give us -- give you an opportunity see the information that we have
to present on that and not jeopardize zoning and annexing this project, because it may
be conditioned upon what individual thoughts are as related to access and we think that
might be, you know, to the service of the project.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Jake, while I, too, agree with Councilman Zaremba, I'm not dead set on not
splitting it out, but my biggest concern is if the variance is not approved, you don't get
cooperation from the other entities, are we going to be back in here changing the
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November 25, 2008
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annexation and zoning? Because without those access points is it going to work to
have the zoning and annexation under these classifications?
O'Very: We believe that -- we believe that this will be a good center. We believe that
we do need those access points and what our -- we think ultimately with the information
we confide, that our traffic consultant's prepared to share with you the design of the --
the actual tapers, the design of the decel lane, that we hope, again, merit the support
that this Council could see that this does make good sense for this project. So, I'm --
Bird: And I don't disagree with you, Jake, on that, but the point is some of your retail
and stuff might not be able to go in there if you don't have the access points you need.
So, are we going to be changing it? I mean I realize that getting this annexation and
zoning approved puts a little bit of hammer on the other two entities, because it's saying
the city thinks that's a -- a proper annexation and zoning area out there and stuff, but my
biggest concern is if you don't get the variance will this annexation and zoning work.
And it's -- and, you know, like Councilman Rountree said, it's your -- you would have to
decide to go forward or not.
O'Very: Well -- and if the -- if the decision is today and given what I believe I'm hearing,
an initial read on -- from -- from Council, that -- then, we probably need to defer to go
spend that time working with the agencies to come back and see where we can get with
them.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, maybe if I can
have the ordinance in the City of Meridian
highway, other than at the half mile.
O'Very: Right.
give a little history. As you well know, we
that we don't approve access onto a state
Rountree: You referenced that we have varied that. We typically have varied that only
after we made a decision that there will be no access and the applicant has obtained
permission and an access agreement with the transportation department. We have not
granted variances in advance of that and we have denied them and continue to deny
them when there isn't an access permit granted by the transportation department.
That's your risk. Though, your risk tonight is at best you will get an annexation with no
access onto Meridian Road, with the exception at the half mile mark. Now, that's a risk
-- I'm just putting it out there, that's the best you're going to get, probably.
O'Very: Uh-huh.
Rountree: Not that we have had the hearing and made the decision, but I'm just giving
you the history. But I'm willing to hear it if you want it heard and let the chips fall where
they may, I guess, if you're willing to take the risk. And, then, having to come back.
Evans: Madam Mayor and Council Member --
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November 25, 2008
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De Weerd: If you will just state your name once more for the record.
Evans: This is Lance Evans again.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Evans: I guess we understand that there are some fine tuning details that need to be
worked out, that's why we have the development agreement conditions, which, you
know, 80 percent, 90 percent of them we are good with. And we are willing to go
forward with those -- I just don't want us to confuse the issue of, you know, should we
be in the City of Meridian, should we be zoned these zones. And can we have -- the
third question is is can we work out and develop and address the access issue and can
we get to a better agreement with the transportation agencies. We realize your
authority is -- is definitely there as well, but as those -- those transportation bodies are
also very important and I don't think -- and I could be wrong, but I don't think that having
it annexed and zoned into the City of Meridian helps us at all with ITD. You know,
maybe it would, but I can't believe it would make too much of a difference. And I guess
we just want to keep this process going along. We have had good success with the city
in identifying issues, working through them, and coming back to, hopefully, a successful
situation. I mean we have kind of went through a similar process with the
Comprehensive Plan. So, that's our hope and it's just to keep the process rolling, but --
and that's why the deferral to work on those variance issues and get those nailed down
a little better, but we still need to know if we want to be -- you know, we are welcome as
a part of the City of Meridian or if that's not something that you guys want to see.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: If what the applicant's requesting is the annexation and zoning tonight, the
variance continued to a certain -- certain time, while I'd like to keep them together, I can
split it up if that's what they want. They are the ones paying the bills. I have no problem
with that. That's my opinion.
Rountree: So, do we need a motion on whether to continue with our agenda?
De Weerd: I don't think you need a motion; I just need an indication of the Council's
desire.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I can sit here and have a hearing and have the testimony,
but I can't commit that there will be a decision this evening.
De Weerd: Well, I'm hearing at least from two Council Members to move forward with
the --
Bird: Annexation and zoning.
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November 25, 2008
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De Weerd: -- item and decisions apparently will be made at the end. That's the best I
can offer is --
Rountree: If they want to continue the variance hearing, they can continue that, but we
need a date certain.
De Weerd: So, Mr. Baird, I guess with this open public hearing that there really are
three choices. One, they can ask for it to be continued at the end of the discussion of
the annexation. Two, they could withdraw. And, three, Council could deny it. Anything
I missed?
Baird: Well, Madam Mayor, one of the considerations could be -- rather than having two
open public hearings is to just proceed on one of them -- on the first one and when you
get to the end if there is a desire to continue that, then, continue them both to a date
certain. That implies what you just said, that -- you know, lots of different ways you can
cut it here.
De Weerd: As chair I certainly don't have -- I think it's probably best split and, then, if
Council wants to hear about the variance request, I will, then, open it at that time.
Baird: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council that would keep the record as clear as
possible. So, if, in fact, there are two open hearings now, you will probably want to at
least table one of them until then.
De Weerd: Okay. Do I table it or just reverse the opening of the public hearing, if you
can do that?
Baird: Either one would be sufficient.
De Weerd: Okay. Why don't I reverse the opening of the public hearing on VAR 08-008
and we will go ahead and move forward with the public hearing on AZ 08-005, unless I
hear differently from Council.
Bird: Fine with me.
De Weerd: Okay. So, we will start hearing staffs comments on Item 16. I'm not -- I'm
sorry, on Item 15, AZ 0-005.
Friedman: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Council Members. Based on I think what I just
heard from the Council, in the event that there may be a decision tonight, I think -- and
Mr. Baird can correct me if I'm wrong, if Council gets to the point and they feel
comfortable in making a decision and if that aligns with the recommendation of the
Planning and Zoning Commission, then, the applicant does -- is at the risk of having that
in place and moving forward being annexed into the city with a development agreement
and, then, having to come back with a variance for the access; is that correct?
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Baird: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, your discussion over the last 15, 20
minutes has made that abundantly clear.
Friedman: I just wanted to make sure of that. I'm going to tum this over to Mr. Parsons
to walk you through some of the specifics on the applications and the recommendations
from the Planning and Zoning Commission. There will be a discussion -- Mr. Evans
indicated that there were a couple of provisions of the proposed development
agreement that they have some concerns about. We received those this afternoon and
after we give our presentation and they give their presentation, then, we can, may get
into a discussion of those with you and any other items that you might have questions
on. So, I'm going to turn it over to Mr. Parsons at this point.
De Weerd: Well, just a reminder right now we are not hearing any staff presentation on
the variance.
Friedman: Correct. We will discuss the annexation and the recommendations of the
Planning and Zoning Commission --
De Weerd: That's correct.
Friedman: -- on the annexation and the zoning.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Parsons: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. This time I'll make sure
to hit the access points for this presentation, as it seems to be relevant to the
annexation of this property. I apologize for that. Again, as Pete mentioned, this is an
annexation for 73.10 acres of land currently zoned RUT. The applicant is proposing to
-- excuse me. The site is located on the northwest comer of West Amity Road and
Meridian Road and does continue all the way up to the half mile at West Harris Street
on the west side of Meridian Road that is. The applicant is requesting annex --
annexation again, 73 acres from RUT for R-15 medium high density residential, L -O's
under office, C -C community business district, and C -G, general commercial zoning
districts. Again, currently what surrounds the subject site -- here is the aerial of the site.
It's pretty undeveloped, the land right now is currently used for agriculture. The only
development, to this -- close proximity to this site is a resident subdivision currently in
the county known as Meridian Heights to the north. Here is the concept plan that the
Planning and Zoning Commission acted on at their hearing on October 16th. I kind of
highlighted the accesses for their concept plan. Again, what the applicant is proposing
is, basically, a large scale retail development and includes large box retail in the
southern portion, kind of a mid box retail site along the northern half, ten individual retail
buildings, including several drive-thrus, three office buildings, and a 7.5 acre multi -family
development, which is located in the northwest comer of the site. And if you can follow
my arrow, those are the three office pads that the applicant is proposing as well.
Buildings on this site are proposed to range from 2,000 square feet all the way up to
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November 25, 2008
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184,000 square feet and total square footage of office and retail uses proposed on the
site is approximately 478,800 square feet. Now, to the access points for the site, the
applicant is proposing two full access points to Harris Street, which is located here and,
then, an access point from the multi -family development -- proposed multi -family
development. Three access points to Meridian Road. One right -in, right -out, left -in at
the quarter mile. A right -in, right -out only at the eighth mile and, then, another right -in,
right -out at the eighth mile located and labeled as access three. Two full access
driveways and one right -in, right -out driveway access is proposed on West Amity, this --
where my arrow is on the south, that was proposed as right -in, right -out only. Access
located centrally along the southern boundary and, then, on the western boundary is
another full access point roughly at the quarter mile. These were the access scenarios
that were discussed in the -- the applicant's TIA -- TIS impact study -- or traffic impact
study. These are the four scenarios that they analyzed. I'll let them dive into that more
and provide more of those details for you. The applicant has provided elevations for
particularly the large box in the multi -tenant large retail building along the southern and
northem boundaries. Basically one of the requirements -- the reason why you see a lot
of the side and rear elevations of these larger boxes is one of the DA provisions staff
has required that they provide modulation and some architectural detail on the rear
facades of those larger buildings to kind of help blend in with the surrounding
neighborhood if future -- because of the future residential that is -- is planned to happen
in along -- to the west of this site. And, basically, these elevations were primarily just to
show -- depict the type of building materials that would be used on the site. One other
thing I would let the Council know that a DA provision is in place that requires the
applicant receive design review approval prior to any building permit on the site. So,
whether it's the current provisions in place now or the future provisions coming before
you in January. So, I am going to try to hit on some of the DA provisions that we have
tied to the staff report and Planning and Zoning Commission had heard and acted on
and these are -- again, these aren't all of the provisions, but, really, these are the ones
that seem to be most of the topic of discussion at that hearing. So, again, the biggest
one -- all future buildings will be subject to design review that are current -- and I just
kind of paraphrased that, but it is mentioned that any development standards that are in
place at the time of application submittal. And, then, minimal 15 buildings,
nonresidential buildings, and a minimum seven acres set aside for future residential
uses. One other thing I did want to point out to you is there is a pretty substantial gas
easement that runs through the property, it's currently an 85 foot easement and it's a big
public safety issue from staffs standpoint and, of course, from fire and police and so we
definitely want to make sure the applicant coordinates with that entity and make sure to
give staff recommendations or at least a verification that they have agreements from
that company to proceed. Again, there is a DA provision that requires half of the
backage road be put in place prior to occupancy on the site and, then, again, at that
hearing Planning and Zoning entertained the idea that a right -in, right -out -- right -in,
right -out access point at the quarter mile would be doable from their recommendation,
so we have modified that DA provision to reflect that change. Oh. Excuse me. And,
then, of course, the development of this site shall be generally consistent with the
conceptual site plan. So, basically, what you're acting on with the annexation request
and, then, we also have a requirement for the landscape buffers as well. So, if I can get
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November 25, 2008
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back up here, let you look at the concept plan while I go over some of the items -- the
key items of discussion at that Planning and Zoning Commission hearing. I guess the
biggest point, again, was access onto Meridian Road. Again, Commission felt it was --
had recommended that they be allowed to have one right -in, right -out only at the quarter
mile, not a right -in, right -out, left -in, as proposed by the applicant. Again, they talked
about -- if you could follow my arrow, this is -- this depicts that gas easement that I had
referenced to you earlier with a DA provision. So, there is discussion there by the
Commission that they have some concerns and they wanted to make sure that the
applicant coordinated with the gas company as well. Again, when the staff originally
took this project before the Commission, staff had originally recommended that the
backage road be constructed -- the entire length of the backage road be constructed on
the site and P&Z felt like the -- or recommended that only half of this road be
constructed with first occupancy. So, it was the intent of the applicant to, really, develop
this southern portion first, so the intent was to really construct this portion of the road
once this large box kind of came in. One thing that wasn't discussed at the hearing and
I think it's important, staff still feels it's important to have that backage road constructed
with the first building -- the entire backage road constructed with first occupancy I will
explain why. If this portion of the site were to develop first and there is a DA provision
that only requires this portion of the backage road to be constructed, theoretically, these
folks that live in this subdivision would have to get on at Harris Street, tum onto
Meridian Road, and, then, drive all the way down on a 55 mile highway just to access
this retailer here to the south. So, staff -- if this motion can be changed, if either one
requires that entire backage road be in place or at least have the northern portion here
constructed to have that connectivity with that subdivision, so if this site does develop
first, these folks will not have to go onto a 55 mile an hour highway just to do some
shopping, they can actually access -- access the project from the backage road and
provide a separate safe travel route for those folks. One other thing discussed as well
was one of the DA provisions we have in place is to construct the entire 35 foot
landscape buffer along Meridian Road, which the applicant was in agreement with. The
Commission also discussed the traffic impact study. During that hearing the applicant
did present some information regarding accesses and regarding the TIS study and so
that was discussed and, then, again, one other DA provision that was changed during
the Council hearing was the fact that because this will be a collector road in the future,
there is a requirement in the UDC that requires a 25 foot landscape buffer adjacent to
that roadway. So, P&Z granted the applicant's request and just required a 20 foot along
the northern half of the backage road and, then, from the center drive aisle here at the
quarter mile south to Amity that would transition to a ten foot wide landscape buffer. So,
basically, what staff has done, the changes to the staff report since the Commission key
changes -- one, at that time we had not had parks department comments regarding the
pathway proposed for the site, so staff has attached that in the staff report. We
modified DA provision number three to add verbiage for reimbursement agreements.
We modified DA provision number four to include as generally depicted on the concept
plan. Basically, that referenced this open space area here that was centrally located to
the site adjacent to the pathway that is proposed to be constructed on the site. We
modified DA provision number 13 to reduce the landscape buffer as mentioned earlier.
We modified DA provision number 14, allowing a single right -in, right -out access along
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November 25, 2008
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Meridian Road at the quarter mile, as recommended by the Planning and Zoning
Commission. We modified DA provision number 18 -- basically, the reason why staff
initiated this change and the reason for it is we are okay with that backage road -- we
are okay with Commission's recommendation to allow the -- allowing the applicant to
construct their half -- a portion of the backage road, but we didn't know how to have the
timing in place to require the additional half and so, basically, what we have done is ask
the applicants to provide a phasing plan, so we can have an appropriate timeline and
have that in the DA to require the addition -- additional half of that backage road. Again,
if the Council is inclined to require that entire backage road be constructed with the first
building on site, we can modify that condition to do that as well. We modified condition
number 19 to, basically, have the applicant provide staff with written verification from the
pipeline company in agreement that the applicant has met all of their requirements for
upgrading the pipeline, so that they can commit to development on the site. And, really,
as Pete mentioned -- Mr. Friedman mentioned, number 14, number 18, and number 19
are, really, the development agreement provisions that the applicant wants to discuss
tonight -- has to do with the access, the additional phasing plan for the requirement for
the other half of the backage road and, again, that additional language staff put on
condition number 19 that says we need written verification from the pipeline. They are
in agreement that they want to work with the pipeline, they agree with that portion, but
they feel like that condition might -- staff will let them go forward with a building permit
on the site. So, outstanding issues for Council tonight, again, is three access points -- if
Council is so inclined to recommend no access to Meridian Road or one access point or
however -- however it comes out, staff is recommending the applicant revise the site
plan to depict whether no access, one access, or three accesses -- I guess with three
accesses we wouldn't have to change, but if there is any changes to those access
points we recommend a revised site plan, so we can evaluate it. Two is annexing this
property the best interest of the city. Staff -- again, staff had recommended the
applicant construct the entire length of the backage road. P&Z Commission
recommended the applicant construct half of that roadway and so staff has asked
Commission -- or, excuse me, Council to act on whether or not it's appropriate to have
that entire backage road in place. And, then, of course, the other thing is is this mixed
use development and intensity of these uses suitable for a site next to a major natural
gas facility that not only serves this area, but, basically, serves the whole northwest
region. You know, with that staff will be happy to answer any questions Council may
have.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions at this point?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Is the applicant --
Evans: Good evening. My name again, Lance Evans. 855 Broad Street, Suite 300,
Boise, Idaho. 83702. We appreciate you hearing the request tonight for the annexation
and zoning to the City of Meridian. The concept plan -- I have been wanting to show
you this for a long time you may remember, the --- all the changes that we have made
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and we just want to, first, go through some of the changes that we have made to the
site. We have a -- I guess the first thing would be that we have addressed as the buffer
concerns along the western property line, increased the setbacks and the landscapings
as much as possible. We have requested the reduction to the ten foot landscaping
buffer, because we have a canal issue and the roadway and there is quite a bit to go on
there, so we hoped to work with the adjacent property owner on that to increase the
buffer beyond on the west side of the property. We have relocated the pathway
network, instead of -- we originally had it going around to -- to the south and around the
site. We now have it going directly through the middle of the site and have added a
landscape pedestrian open space amenity and we have also committed to and provided
the backage road along the western property line to provide connectivity for the existing
and future developments in the area. We believe this plan has improved quite a bit and
it will utilize the land and serve the needs of the growing community south of Interstate
84, as stated in the Meridian City Comprehensive Plan. We, agree with staff on their
recommendation for approval of the annexation and zoning. We'd just like to address a
few of the comments in the development agreement provisions. We agree with 16 of
the 19 provisions, but we have got three items we'd like to address and modify. First,
on condition 14, that limits our access to Meridian Road to one right -in, right -out access
at the quarter mile. Our proposal will allow us to pursue a variance. We want to change
that wording so that we can pursue a variance for these three access points on Meridian
Road as shown on the concept plan. It's critical -- this access is critical to the
functioning and success of the development. Retailers investigating the site continually
raise the importance of the multiple accesses for their customers as a factor in site
selection. In these tougher economic times these accesses are absolutely necessary to
complete -- to compete with other potential development sites throughout, really, the
entire country. Our proposed language simply allows us the opportunity to pursue the
variance. The traffic impact analysis shows that three access points, constructed with
dedicated deceleration lanes, will allow traffic -- sufficient traffic flow on Meridian Road.
We are only proposing three of our seven deeded access points, which have been
deeded by the state of Idaho and are valuable property rights. We have continued to
work with Idaho Transportation Department and ACHD on these designs and we are
asking for your support in exploring all these agent -- these details. We really want the
opportunity to have these -- this variance -- all the work that we can put into it go
forward and really see how it plays out before we have a decision on that. The second
condition that we would like to make a modification to is on number 18. We would like
to require -- which would require us to submit a phasing plan. Unfortunately, this would
not be based in any economic or fiscal basis. It would be very hard for us at this time to
say, oh, this is exactly when that second half of that development is going to go forward
and we have discussed the issue at length with the Planning Commission and at that
Planning and Zoning hearing they decided to have the backage road sections
completed prior to the certificate of occupancy of the north or south side of the
development. So, as a -- anytime a certificate of -- the backage road will have to be
completed say on the northern portion prior to a certificate of occupancy there.
Staff is in sort of -- their concerns and comments on this at this time after the Planning
and Zoning Commission, we would just like to go back to the Planning Commission
recommendation and delete the additional language. The third item is condition number
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19, which addressees the gas pipeline and it adds -- what it does is, essentially, adds
another level or regulation to a use that is already controlled by the federal regulation
through the Department of Transportation and an easement agreement between the
two private parties, the pipeline and the property owner. We have met with the pipeline
company and we feel we have an understanding of how we can best work together on
the pipeline. It's not necessary to add an additional layer of oversight requiring their
approval of whatever we do prior to, really, anything going forward. They acknowledge
that there is growth in the area and that Department of Transportation regulations will
eventually trigger an update to their pipeline, it's just an issue of when it's going to take
place and how and we would like to leave that open and flexible to work on. We agree
with the recommendation for approval and we'd just like to have these modifications to
the development agreement. And we respectfully request your recommendation of
approval. I will stand for any questions.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: We have asked for a reduction in the landscape buffer on the south end on
the west side or the back side of what you're referring to as a big box. The graphic that
someone provided, whether it was you all or staff, the one that's being displayed now
shows an area to the west of the backage road that is landscaped, but I'm not sure is
that part of this proposal?
Evans: Council Member Rountree, the property line is the somewhat dashed line that
you see going along the inside of the backage road.
Bird: That's what I thought.
Evans: So --
Rountree: So, my concern, if that's a fair misrepresentation of what could happen
there --
Evans: Well, it certainly -- it's meant to show simply what is a potential that -- that there
is plenty of room, should that development come in. We had a significant amount of
landscaping that was going to be behind these buildings, even with access points, but
we elected to add in the backage road to provide that access. So, I guess, yes, we are
asking for a little bit of leniency in exchange for that backage road that's being put in
there.
Rountree: Another comment and it's on -- it's on this letter to the city dated, apparently,
today. And I will quote from it -- Hawkins Company's comment: Access to the site from
Meridian Road is critical to the successful operation of the center. So, back to our
earlier discussion. Based on that statement from you all, this annexation and zoning
would not be successful with no access, other than Harris Street and Amity.
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Evans: Well, Council Member Rountree, I think what we are saying there is that the
access needs to -- is a critical element, that without it, you know, the retail sites are not
going to -- you know, you're not going to have a viable site that's really going to function
and be profitable and stay full and active.
O'Very: Jason O'Very. 5537 North Brigadoon Avenue, Meridian, Idaho. 83646. I'd like
to elaborate a little bit on that. I think what's critical is we -- Hawkins Company has
been an Idaho developer for over 30 years. We are doing projects in 17 states. And
what we are seeing in this economic environment is that the number of deals that
retailers are pursuing has shrunk significantly in half or greater than in half today. So,
the viability issue related to access, we want this project to be as attractive to these
tenants when they are going to their boards and saying we are going to build 30 stores
this year, not a hundred like we did last year. Where should we build them? What
gives us the best opportunity to be successful? Where do we think we can gamer the
highest sales and -- and make this site the one they want to be at. So, while, yes, is
there a way that they could make sense and today if we are -- if we have the limited
access, maybe. Are they going to be as attractive to retailers when they are
considering site across the entire United Stated to do? I don't know. I don't know. And
I think that we want to make this as attractive to bring the tenants to Meridian, because
the goal isn't just to get it zoned and annexed, the goal is how do we get the tenants to
come to this site so that they open up their business, we have a construction project, we
have projects to lease up in that will ultimately be jobs and services provided for the
people south of the interstate. That's really why that access is going to be so critical
when we say to the viability or the success of the development. And if you -- if I could,
Commissioner Rountree, 1 would also point out as it's related to the -- to that southern
portion, Mrs. Laidlaw that owns the property directly to the west, we have met with her
several times, she's come to our meetings, she's very much in support with what we are
doing. The reason we requested the change on that landscaping was we will be
obligated to build half plus 12 feet and we were just trying to get a portion of that back.
She's not opposed to the building of the road, but today she's just saying, hey, I sold a
portion of it to Mr. Johnson to the north, I plan on living in this until I go meet my maker
and we are -- and I'm just -- I'm happy to support you with what you're doing, but I don't
know that I want to do anything else until her heirs have to. So, that was the reason
that we requested that. Planning Commission and staff had also requested how might
this property develop to the west. So, what we did was draw a design -- and this may
even be a smaller version of it that showed, hey, here is how this could function, here
they tie into the backage road. So, the intent of that design to the west of our backage
collector's road -- collector road, let's really give a feeling for how that might develop to
the west.
De Weerd: Any follow up? Council, any other questions?
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Hoaglun.
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Hoaglun: Just an odd question. I noticed on the zoning map and, then, it shows a little
bit here between the label Amity Road and access point three, there was a little jog out
that -- a cut out. Tell me about that.
O'Very: If you drive by that you will see there is -- it's, basically, the transition point
between the gas lines and Intermountain Gas. So, there is a little parcel there -- it's,
actually, two small parcels that the Northwest Pipeline people run.
Hoaglun: Okay. Thank you.
De Weerd: It's prettier in green.
Rountree: Yeah.
O'Very: Well -- and one thing that we did, you know, include in our site plans as it
relates to that was we are bringing the pathway along the frontage of Meridian Road, we
are not dead ending it at that parcel and we are -- we are sweeping it around it and so
we have some connectivity. I think we see a lot of developments where people have hit
a property line and the development just stops. So, we are trying to address that, so
that there is still connectivity all the way through the intersection.
De Weerd: Any other questions from Council?
Rountree: A technical question, I guess, and something that I'm not necessarily looking
to regulate, but what are the federal regulations on that easement? How close can you
build to that line?
O'Very: Well, Commissioner Marshall and Commissioner Rohm at the Planning and
Zoning Commission questioned Mr. Hamilton pretty extensively on and in our meeting
what we learned was there is, basically, a sliding mile scale that says as long --
whenever there is ten or more people within one mile of that pipeline, they have an
obligation to upgrade that pipeline and so they go out every fall, they have their system
where they run along that pipeline to determine what -- what residences or businesses
are located within that pipeline parameters. Once a building is located in there, they
have a 24 month trigger to take action. What we learned in that meeting was it doesn't
necessarily mean they have to replace this pipeline, they simply go to the federal
regulations and say, hey, here is some testing, here is some -- here are some results
and we are requesting a variance, because this pipe was sound and it will not require
any action at this time irrespective of the density of the population that's there. This
pipeline travels through Seattle, through Portland, we recognize the importance of it and
you have -- we have significant meetings with Northwest Pipeline and we started this
process fifteen, sixteen months ago. So, we have been meeting with them periodically
through this process. So, how it may impact us and the concern that we have as it
related to that specific development agreement item was we really didn't want to give
one side or another, as Commissioner Rohm had statement, an unfair advantage on
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how we may deal with this, because if there is an obligation to upgrade that pipeline,
then, we don't necessarily want it to have to be solely on our shoulders to say, you
know, you built this through an area that was going to grow and if we design and build
the site and do buildings and such that they can come in and still do that, that they
would potentially share that obligation to upgrade that pipeline and we offered to work
with them to say maybe we do it now before anything happens and we can alleviate
some of those concerns. When we worked with Public Works to determine how the
utilities will get to this site, that was part of the other reason of our concern on why we
only wanted half of this backage road to be constructed at that time was we said, hey,
wait, we are going to extend utilities from Victory all the way down to this side, we are
taking on some pretty significant financial exposure and we would like just flexibility to
say if we do something on the south half, we will put in a backage road that covers that
south half. If we do something on the north half we will put in the backage road that
covers that north half, but give us the flexibility to do that and if we do something on
both sides, then, that entire backage road would be put in place and that's the nature of
why we responded to the comment to those two items that we did.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I very much appreciate your enthusiasm and your wealth of information, but
my question was how close can you build to the east side?
O'Very: Oh, we can build -- I'm song if I didn't address that correctly, Commissioner
Rountree. I -- or Councilman Rountree. You can build right on -- right up to the edge of
it and, in fact, in that meeting they stated that it goes underneath buildings, underneath
garages, et cetera, and there are easements that govern it. We will not build over the
top of it any building. We will build parking over the top of it. It can be used for
detention, it can be used -- it varies at different depths. But, you know, as they -- as
they stated, it just goes through Seattle, it goes through Portland, I mean they have
buildings directly adjacent to the easement varying width differs as it goes through the
country. And it will impact us as others come on -- online in this area, as well as density
of homes are built up adjacent to us on what they have to do.
Rountree: Thank you.
De Weerd: Any other questions? I guess I do. I see a couple of green spots there at
the -- let's see, I guess it's the northeast comer of your development. Yes. Right there.
As well as that stated park. What are the plans for those? I know that there is a
concept plan, but I don't know how much can change, but if you'd have stated intentions
or amenities in those, a vision.
O'Very: We do have a vision in that area and that -- if you drive -- if you drive out to the
site you see there is some topography restraints and -- that we will deal with. We look
at that comer as more essentially a detention area with a water feature that maybe we
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could attract some restaurants or something that would like an outdoor patio
overlooking that water feature and that's kind of our vision for the comer -- this comer. I
don't know if that's -- where that -- at the comer of Harris and Meridian. The second
area that we show green space -- looking with staff we said, hey, look, we understand
we are not going to build a big wall of buildings and let's break that up and let's open
that up and let's -- everyone talked about this pathway network that doesn't lead to
anywhere or doesn't lead to somewhere that you can go if you come to the shopping
center, so that's where we said, hey, let's put together a green space with a -- with a --
maybe a covered area or some seating area or something to that, so that if people do
come to shop and want to go get ice cream or go get what they have, they have a place
to go sit and enjoy and, of course, it breaks up what's perceived as a wall of buildings
along that western boundary.
De Weerd: Thank you. Now, you did show some elevations I assume for that first set
of buildings on the north -- on the south in the big box. Will that have different
modulation and -- or are you following that same design?
O'Very: It will have that same concept. And, again, as staff alluded in the development
agreement, it is an entryway corridor and it will be subject to the design review
standards. That's what we try to -- that Kohl's is not, obviously, as large as that other
building, but we wanted to pick up the same spirit in that architecture that you have,
the --
De Weerd: For the side and the back, but for the front?
O'Very: Well, the whole -- the whole project would be -- the whole -- every building I
think is -- I believe was subject to the design review standards that would require the
similar breaking up of the front facade.
De Weerd: I know, but sometimes there is a different application. So, I'm just trying to
get a better idea of what -- what your vision for that application would be. We were in
Orlando and saw, for example, a big box like Wal-Mart that was very esthetically
pleasing, because it was more like the amenity that you show up there. It was one big
box, but it certainly didn't look like it. So, I'm just trying to get a better sense to -- is your
vision for that big box -- that big box of Kohl's or is it a big box that doesn't look like a big
box?
O'Very: Well, obviously, we don't know who that big box might be, but it's similar to
those pictures that you saw in the previous application. We would envision it to be that
same quality architecture where you can see how they have broken up a food center
and broken up a -- you know, we would like to attract a Fred Meyer or a Target or a
Wal-Mart type user for this and we would love to have that type of -- similar type of
.architecture that you're describing.
De Weerd: Okay. Okay. Council, anything else? Thank you.
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Zaremba: Madam Mayor, I would comment that if you're reference to Orlando was at
the north end of International Boulevard where there is a large complex of shopping
centers, there are accesses around the half mile only.
De Weerd: Thank you. This is a public hearing. Is there anyone who would like to
provide testimony on this application?
Anderson: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Oh. Yeah. I was looking out in the audience. Yes.
Anderson: I'm hidden over here behind the screens.
De Weerd: Chief Anderson.
Anderson: The fire department has expressed a concern about the pipeline and just
like to elaborate a little bit on what our concerns are. These are 22 inch and the 24 inch
natural gas pipeline that run through there. They are high pressure lines. They are
significantly greater sizes than what we see in residential subdivisions when we are
talking four inch, two inch lines, you have about a three-quarter inch line coming into
your house. So, when one of those lines gets hit, the fire department normally
responds. We evacuate the area. Keep everybody away to make sure that there is no
ignition sources, those types of things, until the gas company can get there and close
that off. If one of these lines gets hit it's a major deal. We will make the national news.
And if you look at the drawing here, there is going to be a whole bunch of excavation
that's going to be going in, around, on top of these natural gas lines. That green space
that Councilman Hoaglun asked about is a metering station and the fire department
over the last ten years has probably responded out there over 300 times because of
people driving by on the road and they smell the natural gas. If you put this type of a
development next to that metering station you may as well build a fire station out there,
because we are going to be out there all the time unless something is done with that --
that metering station. I don't know what Seattle and Portland have done if these lines
run through there, but it would probably be worth investigating and finding out what kind
of setbacks, what kind of requirements they did. I have real concerns about putting high
density residential and commercial this close to and on top of the pipeline, because we
will have to deal with it when an emergency occurs and I don't want to necessarily
always, you know, seem like I'm worried about the doom and gloom, but this has some
major impacts. If that line was to break and we had to evacuate that area, 22 inch gas
line, we wouldn't be talking about evacuating a couple of houses, we would have to
evacuate a mile. Can you imagine what that -- that would tax your fire department and
your police department trying to get that many people out of that area that quickly
before that gas finds an ignition source?
De Weerd: So, Chief Anderson, my question to you would be, as we plan the Ten Mile
area -- the Ten Mile plan we have a big chunk of this pipeline going through there.
What were the discussion points in that area? Because that is very vertically integrated
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November 25, 2008
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with a lot of high density and an employment center and all of that. Was that part of the
discussion there?
Anderson: I'm not sure it's even been brought up or discussed. I think it needs to be
revisited and I think we need to look and see what some of these other cities have
done.
De Weerd: Were those in the staff comments for this applicant?
Anderson: Yeah.
De Weerd: Okay. We will ask them to respond to that and see if they have done some
of that research and the plans for the metering station. Thank you.
Anderson: Uh-huh.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: I would suggest, though, that we haven't contemplated this same thing in
the Ten Mile area that as the pipeline -- this area starts to develop, because most of it is
in green field, it is something that we need to certainly help and get a plan for. Mr.
Zaremba.
Zaremba: I can't comment on the entire Ten Mile area plan, but I'm just -- in the area of
the south redevelopment where we are talking about putting fire station number six,
there is a pretty wide easement over this pipeline as it goes through the -- I think it's the
same pipeline.
Bird: It is.
Zaremba: As it goes through that area there is a very wide easement over it that is
different than what's being proposed here. I don't know how far north and south that
same width of easement goes, but I do know that in the neighborhood of our discussion
of fire station six it's pretty wide and I think that's wide.
Friedman: Madam Mayor and Council Members, not.having the Ten Mile plan right in
front of me, I do recall though, that part of the open space network that we
contemplated in the Ten Mile plan did incorporate the gas line easement. I will look into
it further and, obviously, we have an opportunity, because we don't have any
development proposed out there just yet, but there may be some coming that we do
have an opportunity to address those. I'd just like -- if I may indulge the Council, just
build on what the chief was saying, because I think the condition that they are referring
to in the development agreement isn't specifically prohibiting development on that, we
were concerned that the condition was that the applicant coordinate with the Northwest
Pipeline Company and in our opinion because of the public safety issues involved and
because of the far ranging impacts, essentially, to the northwest, should a rupture
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occur, we felt that it was critical that we not only have coordination, but that we have
written verification of the result of that coordination that we would like to have that in
hand before, essentially, a spade of dirt is turned, for a couple of reasons. In his
testimony Mr. Hamilton at the Planning and Zoning Commission indicated to us that 22
inch diameter pipe was constructed in 1955. Twenty-four inch diameter pipe was
constructed in 1981. And as he indicated that these gas pipelines not only serve
southern Idaho, but most of the northwestern United States. So, building upon what the
chief said, you know, we would not only make the national papers, I could imagine the
reaction of some of our neighboring states. And so he said, basically, they like to see
open space, but recognizing the development proposal that was before the city, we just
want to insure that there have been not only coordination, but written verification that
whatever concerns have been ameliorated through whatever means, that the two
parties could come up with and that we receive verification from the pipeline company
prior to the approval of any site development plans. Because as we do know, we have
experience on -- you know, call before you dig, that accidents do occur and given the
magnitude of the accidents that could occur in this area and as I recall, these aren't very
deep pipelines, we just felt that the public health, safety and welfare was a predominate
concern here. So, again, the recommendation was noted on it, it's just how do we
anticipate and ameliorate for development in this area.
De Weerd: Very fair discussion.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Zaremba: I just -- in support of staff, I would say that while I would like to take the
applicant's word that they are going to work with the pipeline company, I think we need
to hear from the owner of the pipe -- that all of their requirements have been complied
with. There may be federal requirements of which is there is no discussion, but I just -- I
still feel that the due diligence that the city needs to put into this to me requires us to
have the owner of the pipe write us a letter and say this works for us, what the applicant
is doing is okay.
De Weerd: Thank you. Any other comments, questions?
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor, question for Pete. I have a question about deeded property
access rights. There is a -- you know, that's -- the state highway is in rural property.
Does -- if there is a home or an access point for an agricultural field right now, that
remains with the property, even though the use of that property changes or -- what can
you tell me about that?
Friedman: Well, I can tell you a little bit and, then, I may have to refer to Mr. Baird down
there. As Council Member Rountree had indicated earlier, of course, our city codes
have mirrored the state transportation department's access requirements, thus we have
the requirements for the single half mile access. We also have provisions in the code
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November 25, 2008
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where access is available from something other than an arterial, then, that access is to
be utilized or provided for and the other accesses are to be abandoned. There have
been some discussion where there are deeded accesses between -- you know, from the
Department of Transportation that is unclear whether or not they have to honor those or
not and, you know, we are getting into a legal area that I'm really not privy to or
comfortable discussing, so I can't really directly answer your question, all I do know is
that through our current code we have amended the code to say where access can be
provided via another street, other than an arterial and it should be taken that way and
those accesses should be abandoned.
Hoaglun: Okay. Madam Mayor, could I have Mr. Baird take a crack at it?
De Weerd: Yes. If he would dare to venture.
Baird: I'm not sure I can dodge this one. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council,
Council Members Hoaglun, the ones that I have seen they appear to be sort of site
specific, so I would -- we always attempt to rely on what ITD is telling us about them, so
rather than looking generalities, I think we would need to -- the inquiry would need to be
more specific as to what's on this site. And, really, I don't want you to see this as a cop
out, but much further discussion about access is intertwined with things that you've said
you're not going to talk about with the particular application. There has been quite a bit
of talk about access, to be honest with you. I think it's -- it's a good question and the
one that needs to be answered perhaps with regard to the variance application, if you
get there.
Hoaglun: Thank you.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: This is not a legal opinion, but this came up a number of times while I was on
the Planning and Zoning Commission and the response that we got from transportation
agencies and advising attorneys at the time was that a farm driveway access was just
that and while it may be deeded for that purpose, if the use changed we have the right
to change the access.
De Weerd: Hi, Mr. Vance. Please state your name and address for the record.
Vance: Tracy Vance. I am at 4840 West View Place, Meridian, Idaho.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Vance: I thought maybe if you wanted a little bit more information on the deeded
access points -- I don't know if I can --
Meridian City Council
November 25, 2008
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De. Weerd: I'm not sure if we really do, but --
Vance: If you don't, I can sit down. If you want a little bit more information on just what
the deeded access points are and where they are located at and the documents
themselves, I'm more than willing to supply the Council and Mayor that information.
De Weerd: It's probably more pertinent to the variance application. I don't want to blur
the process here.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: I know, you started it.
Hoaglun: I did and I apologize. And I think it's something that I would withhold -- have
that answer if it was only to the variance portion of a public hearing, so -- but that is a
question I have and would like to hear some sort of answer at that point in time.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Certainly the applicant has the last word. Council, if you
have no further questions for the staff at this point, I would invite them up to --
Evans: Thank you very much. Lance Evans again. Basically we just -- there are two
issues. One is access and we will discuss that with the variance. In regard to the
pipeline, I guess we would just like to -- you know, we understand what staff is
requesting, that some sort of verification and Council -- Commission -- yeah, Council is
asking for is some sort of verification or something that will allow us -- you know, you
the assurance that, hey, we are doing our job right and the pipeline is doing their job
right. And I guess the language in the development agreement now gives them, really,
the -- the ability to say yes or no to us. If they don't like how we are proceeding, even
though it may be within the federal guidelines and regulations, even though it may be
within the easement, they could still -- they still have a hammer hold over us and could
effectively prevent us from going forward with our development and that's our concern,
that we have to go get written verification that we have done everything correctly -- I
appreciate what that's trying to do and it is not easy, but it does state that the applicant
shall coordinate with the Northwest Pipeline Company and submit written verification
that all requirements of the gas company have been met. That is why we have
submitted our -- we'd like to propose the alternative language that just says if we will
coordinate with the Northwest Pipeline Company regarding the construction and
development with the gas line easement, pursuant to the terms of the easement and the
governing federal regulations. We want to leave those as the two guiding documents.
Not that we don't want the City of Meridian involved, you certainly should be aware, you
know, the correspondence on the federal regulations would be out there and would be
available, but to have to take that extra level and that extra step and require us to get
written verification that we have met everything poses a challenge to us.
O'Very: Jason O'Very again. I'd like to just kind of expand on that. We are okay giving
the city some level of assurance, but I think what we are trying to avoid is if they don't --
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I mean they have submitted, hey, sure, we'd like to have a green space, that gives us
easy access to this easement, but if they just don't like what we are doing, we don't
want them to say, oh, you didn't do it, you didn't -- we don't -- we just kind of want to
figure out how we can get the assurance to the city -- and whether it's working through
with Public Works as a comment or something that relates to that, because we are
going to work with them, we have roads that cross this pipeline, I know it seems like it's
a scary thing, but the city and everyone is already dealing with these -- these issues
anytime utilities cross underneath it, over it, or roads cross over it. So, I don't want you
to come away that we are saying we don't want to provide you with some level of
assurance, but we are just saying how can we structure that that you can be
comfortable with it, but it doesn't give them the perception that they have a -- some third
level of approval over us, that, yes, the city supports our development and we have
given you the design, we have worked with you on the design -- in fact, we asked them
who do you recommend we use for our engineer to lay out these utilities and they gave
us one name and so I mean we are definitely trying to do that and we are just trying to
figure out how we massage it that it doesn't give them the perception that they don't like
it, that they don't have to do it, because there is significant amount of money at stake
here on the phasing and if they have to replace the pipeline or they don't and if in their
mind they are saying, well, you know what, in three years or four years or five years we
may have to, if you build this building, so we don't like it, don't pave over it and we are
just trying to avoid that. They can take the practice dances like today, which is let's
figure out an agreement to replace it before the construction starts and we can work
through that. But we just -- I hope I'm making myself clear on that.
De Weerd: I think you are. And I certainly understand your conundrum. I guess I
would look to staff, what we want you to understand is first and foremost our
responsibility is public safety, whether it's with this pipeline or it's with access points and
traffic flow and in causing traffic accidents. It's all the same. That is our first priority is
public safety and how it impacts -- it has everything to do with annexation and the
development agreement and what we -- what assurances we can secure at this level of
approval to get those in the development agreement and I believe that's what the
attempt is in this, it's not to give them another party authority. Were they not a
commenting agency?
Friedman: Madam Mayor, Council Members, they were not a commenting agency. I
would have to check and see if it was transmitted to -- however, Mr. Hamilton did
appear at the Planning and Zoning Commission hearing and did offer comments at that
time.
De Weerd: Have those comments wrapped into expectations in the development
agreement that are in black and white that we can have the applicant agree to in
advance? I guess what I'd like to do is -- is not create a moving target and -- because I
understand what they are saying. Are they going to be requiring something over and
above what the federal governing, federal regulations do require and, if so, what is that?
And is that something that is probably also a requirement or a recommendation by our
fire department and our Public Works Department. I don't know how this goes, but I do
Meridian City Council
November 25, 2008
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know what a moving target is and how difficult it is getting signature and getting the
building permit waiting for the next thing to change and that's what I don't think is right,
but we do need to help stop the potential of a moving target.
Friedman: Madam Mayor, Council Members, I'm just going to, if I may read verbatim
from Mr. Hamilton's testimony, I have the Planning and Zoning Commission minutes
here. It's probably better than me trying to search my memory for exactly -- or
paraphrase what he said. And he talked about the age of the pipeline and he said it's a
critical item for us that we do numerous inspections for corrosion. We are able to do an
electrical inspection over the ground and that will help us find areas we are having
problems with coating or corrosion and if we find anything like that, we have to excavate
the pipeline and repair it. We also run tools through the pipeline and these tools will go
through and measure the wall thickness, look for any areas of corrosion or damage to
the pipeline, dents, or anything along those lines. Once again, if we find something that
concerns us, we have to be able to excavate it immediately. So, we have to be able to
access these pipelines and, in fact, our easements do give us the right to have these
accesses. We have had some conversations with the applicant. I think it's been more
than a year since we have spoken and I don't think we have reached any conclusions at
that time. I'm sad to see that there was an indicated open space trail system here and
I'm sad to see the applicant has changed that. So, I guess that's about the extent. I
could take any questions you have. So, I think one of the things we really need to do is
get together with Mr. Hamilton, because I certainly can appreciate the Mayor's concern
about not having a moving target. On the other hand, we need to somehow at least
recommend to the Council that it's in the best interest of the public that it not be left wide
open. I get a little nervous when I see terms like coordinate and consider and, then,
without any book ends on those types of terms.
De Weerd: Like book ends. Yeah. I would like to have more of the details, too. And,
again, it probably goes to future applications, as well as this is trying to figure out what
those are appropriate to detail. I do understand -- and in your case you'd like to build
that system now with an agreement in advance with the pipeline on what the
reimbursement or -- if they do latecomers or whatever it is, would be and that's
something we can't tell you. What we can tell you is what you have heard the chief say,
this has been an area of high level of volume of response call, because the perception
of the smell and you start putting buildings like this out there, you might as well put a
substation in one of your buildings, because they will have to be on site. I won't tell you
you have to build us a substation, but you get the drift; right?
O'Very: Right.
De Weerd: Don't look at me like a deer in the headlights. I was just making a comment.
Anderson: Madam Mayor? I was curious. The one comment that I read, too, in this
staff report dated November 25th was it said that Mr. Gordon Hamilton from Northwest
Pipeline had informed staff that the gas company was not in favor of paving being
placed over the easement and the pipelines would need to be upgraded before
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November 25, 2008
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development could begin on the site. The gas company also informed staff the
upgrades to those pipelines may not be budgeted until 2011. The gas company has
acknowledged discussion with the applicant, but no agreement has been reached
regarding the upgrades to their facility and so I see in this plan there is asphalt over the
top of it and one of the things they talked about in that report is if they -- if their
equipment detects that there is a thinning of the walls in the pipe, they need to dig down
immediately and repair that. I guess there is just a lot of things that are in the staff
report and Mr. Hamilton's comments that really concern me about pushing ahead
without knowing more from Northwest Pipeline about how this pipeline is operated and
how close people can build to it and what kind of access they need and all those kind of
things.
O'Very: I guess I would also just kind of like to respond, because I understand the
comments Pete made --
De Weerd: If you will just restate your name --
O'Very: Oh. Jason O'Very again.
De Weerd: -- so Dean knows who's talking.
O'Very: Following the information that Pete shared with the Council is when the
Commission began their questioning of Mr. Hamilton. So, subsequent to his testimony
there was a round of questioning by both Commissioner Marshall and Commissioner
Rohm, which led to the revelation that, yes, this does go through these very dense
urban areas and that it crosses under roads and utilities cross it and they went through
these items and subsequent to our approval at Commission, Commission said, hey,
we'd like you to pick back up discussions with the pipeline and we met with Mr. Hamilton
again and shared with him our plans and what they shared with us is, yes, they do need
testing stations, but they would be approximately four inches and every 50 feet or so in
the asphalt and so they were very small wells and we definitely are doing our homework
with it. I mean, obviously, we are going to have a vested interest in making sure nothing
happens to our shopping center and, again, if we can find a way to address the
concerns of this Council and come up with language that we are comfortable with that
says we are assured and the governing terms of the easement agreement, the federal
regulations are met, and safety -- by all means we have safety. I have kids and I live. in
Meridian and I understand the concern for safety. So, how do we class that and we are
happy to work with staff to do that, invite Mr. Hamilton to a meeting with them to
formulate something, so that they can -- staff now understands our concern and
Northwest Pipeline can get their concern out there again and we can craft some
language for that specific development agreement item.
Friedman: Absolutely. Madam Mayor, Council Members. Yeah. I mean in the minutes
he did indicate, obviously, their pipeline runs through major urban areas and, you know,
ideally, they have certain expectations, but, realistically, they have others. Again, our
concern is let's just get those specified to the best of our ability, because to do anything
Meridian City Council
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less than that probably would be remiss on our part. So, again, you know, if we need to
rework this language we -- so be it, but I think just left saying we shall coordinate with
them is just a little too open ended, at least in our opinion.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I would add that the evidence that their pipeline is subject to urban areas
already would be an indication that they do not reasonably hold up agreement for
people to build such, so I still support hearing from the owner that they think that what is
going to happen is going to be okay. And after discussion with Mr. Hamilton. It doesn't
sound to me like they have prevented urbanization from happening over their pipeline
other places, so I guess I'm not as uncomfortable as the applicant is with their potential
requirements.
O'Very: Well, I can share with the Council their position, which they clearly state in the
letter they submitted was any development would require one hundred percent
reimbursement by the developer for any work that needs to be done. So, you can tell
we started all the way on the far end, which said, hey, guys, if you come do anything,
you're responsible for everything. So, if that helps explain why we have concerns
saying, wait a second, why is that fair and reasonable, we have an easement
agreement and there is rules and regulations and because your company chooses to
address a potential development in the -- in the path of growth, whether it's in Meridian
or any other entity by saying we don't have money for two years, I don't -- that's why we
have concerns about giving them too much approval and, again, we are happy to sit
down with Pete and Bill and Gordon Hamilton and sit in a room and say let's craft some
language for the development agreement that gives the city the assurances that they
need to say you're happy that the design is going to take place, but we are not
necessarily putting that lurch all the way to say, sorry, guys, you're -- no matter what
here is your bill. And that's -- that's why I say we are a little bit more leery, I guess, of
them. And I can't comment to what circumstances surrounded the -- the prior
developments or the existing path.
De Weerd: Ted, can a development agreement before this Council approves it, can that
be crafted in if Council were to take action tonight with the premise that both parties
would sit together and craft that language? Is that --
Baird: Madam Mayor, I think the Council would want to see the language before it's
approved. I would point out that the e-mail from Gordon Hamilton that's been
referenced that was submitted -- it's in your packet under the P&Z items, it references a
developer's handbook that the pipeline had. It's possible -- I haven't seen that
handbook. It says they gave a copy to the city planning. It's possible there may be
some objective standards in there that you referenced. That's just another idea. But
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given the -- what seems to be a very important issue, I would think that you would want
the exact language brought back to you for approval.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I'm having real difficulty with this argument, but Ted makes the most sense
so far, but it seems to me that if there is hesitancy on the part of the applicant that the
city requiring them to provide us notice that they've done their appropriate due diligence
with the owner of the easement across this property, then, I'm not sure where they are
coming from. All we are asking for is have you done it. If you haven't done it and they
are not satisfied, they are the ones that are holding you up, not us. All we want to know
is have you satisfied them. I'd be perfectly comfortable if you'd guarantee or tell us you
have met all of their safety requirements for -- but we are not going to hold you up,
because you can't work out a deal with them. I'm really disappointed that you don't
have better sense of what your deal is going to be with the gas company. I mean that to
me is a major obstacle. And I have the same problem with the access word that we are
not supposed to talk about now, that you haven't got that worked out. And, Madam
Mayor, this project is starting to fall in my category of not quite ready. But I don't agree
with your argument that it's going to cause us to be -- put a heavy hammer over this if
we annexed it and waited for some assurance that the thing's been done right. I think
that -- I think the language that staff submitted on Item 19 gives no approval to the City
of Meridian. It gives all the approval between you and your easement holder. All we
want to know is have you done your work. I don't see that that gives them any approval.
De Weerd: Any final comments?
O'Very: Again, you know, we believe this is a great project to bring to the City of
Meridian and we think it does belong in the city and Tracy would like to say something,
too.
Vance: Tracy Vance, 4840 West View Place. Mr. Rountree, ma'am, I'm responding to
your concerns, Mr. Rountree. I agree with you that it doesn't give the city a hammer.
What our concerns are is it gives Northwest Pipeline the hammer. In that condition,
you're right, it does not give the city the hammer. The way that it's drafted is that at the
Northwest Pipeline's sole discretion they can approve or not approve and there is not
objective standards in place. If we meet all the safety requirements like you're talking
about, the way that it extracts it, the Northwest Pipeline can still reject the project. So, I
hope that goes to your concern.
Rountree: Well, Madam Mayor, Mr. Vance, I -- I go back to I guess if that's the case
and that's your sense, I don't want to put the city in a position of either helping or
hindering leverage on your part or the gas line's part to resolve this issue. Get it
resolved and bring it back to the city.
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Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I need to support Councilman Rountree. I agree with him. I would say in
comment that there are elements of this proposal that I hope to go forward. The layout
of it, as I recall, this required a Comprehensive Plan change and I was in favor of that.
I'm in favor of the ideas that you are proposing in the way of annexation and zoning.
There are a couple of very serious issues that I think need to be worked out before I
would be ready to go ahead with it. I want to give you the feeling that I'm not against
the proposal. I think it would be -- when these other problems are worked out, I think it
would be a good addition to Meridian. Before I could vote for it, the other issues need to
be worked out, so I -- that's my comment. That has to do with the pipeline and it has to
do with the accesses.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I, too, have the same feeling that Councilman Rountree and Zaremba, but I also
believe that there has been enough development between developers and Northwest
Pipeline that I don't understand why this development is having such a problem of
getting clarity of what they can do. If you -- if you read the minutes of the Planning and
zoning, Mr. Hamilton seen one concept he thought was pretty good and, then, when this
one come back through planning the concept had changed without -- and from the way I
took it from his testimony that he hadn't talked to anybody from the applicant's company
in a year, but, you know, they have got this pipeline that runs miles -- hundreds of miles
through the northwest and I can guarantee you it's not all open land and agriculture that
they go through. So, I, too, believe it's dependent upon the developer to go get the
agreement of what you can do within that easement and bring it back to us and tell us --
and I'm -- I like your project, don't get me wrong, but I can't vote on it without those
things in place, to be truthful with you.
De Weerd: Well, it sounds like this Council would like to have more detail to build into
the development agreement on what those stipulations are, so, again, like Councilman
Rountree said, we are not the hammer. Those -- those are clearly delineated between
yourself as the applicant and the pipeline and it can be put into the development
agreement, so there is no question. And I think that -- that is fair, so there is no
remaining question on what those expectations are and we are not put in the middle of
something that could potentially tum into something we don't want to be in the middle of.
And I think you can understand the position we don't want to be in.
O'Very: Sure.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
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De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I just wanted to add my two cents worth. I think something can be worked out
here down the road. It has to be resolved. I'm in agreement. We just can't let this go.
We have got to have assurances from Chief Anderson that, you know, he's reviewed
things, he understands it, he knows what's happening, if there is an agreement that
what he sees or what they tell him is something that other communities have dealt with
and it works. It is something that I think we could put in the development agreement
down the road, find the right language, that gives us a lever to make sure it happens,
but at the same time not giving the gas company complete veto power over the project.
I mean if -- if they do their due diligence I think we could find that language and that
common ground. It's just we have go to -- we are going to have to work at it a little bit
longer to make that happen. But I think we can get there.
De Weerd: Well, I guess to the applicant, because this is still an open public hearing,
would you desire to have a continuation of this item, so that that language can be
worked out?
O'Very: Madam Mayor and Council, yes, we would look to have a continuance of this
and we'd ask, I guess, for some -- for an ample period of time to work through that. I
definitely heard Councilman Rountree's concerns related to additional issues related to
access and this pipeline and our initial deferral request for the variance was for March.
We are coming into a holiday period with the pipeline people. They are based out of
Salt Lake. It took us almost two months to get that first meeting scheduled and so if we
can have an ample period for the continuance to try and resolve some of these issues
and share not only those issues that were discussed tonight, but those issues for our
pending application. So, we'd ask both of those applications be continued.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: I'm song. Just a moment, Mr. Zaremba. Do you have, then, a date that you
would like us to Consider?
O'Very: What was the date, Bill, that we submitted? Was it March?
:1R'i■817- R, Di
O'Very: March 10. Would March 10 be acceptable? That would work for us to give us
ample time to at least give us the couple months after the holidays to try and work
something out with them.
De Weerd: It looks good on our end. Mr. Zaremba, did you have something in addition
to that?
Zaremba: Actually, I was going to make two comments. One, I was going to suggest
that we use the early March date and March 10th sounds good to me. The other was I
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November 25, 2008
Page 62 of 75
was going to comment that I'm glad that we did open the hearing today and have
discussion today and get it started today. If we were starting this discussion in March I
don't think that would be helping anybody, so I'm --
O'Very: We definitely appreciate Council's time and comments.
Rountree: You would have found out how grumpy I can get.
O'Very: Okay.
De Weerd: Okay. That's very helpful. We appreciate that and I think staff knows what
Council is looking for and would be available to help and meet Chief Anderson I'm sure
as well.
O'Very: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. So, Council, what I will need from you on this is a motion to
continue this item until March 10th.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we continue Item 15, AZ 08-005 until March 10th, 2009. Boy,
that's hard to say.
Bird: Second.
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to continue Item 15 to March 10th,
2009. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Bird.
Bird: Do you want to -- are you going to open up -- put 16 first and, then, continue it,
too?
De Weerd: Yes. So, we don't have to repost. I will go ahead and open the public
hearing on VAR 08-008 and with the intent to open it and ask for a motion from Council
to continue this public hearing to March 10th.
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Rountree: So moved.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to continue Item 16 to March 10th, 2009. All
those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 12: Public Hearing: 2007 Consolidated Annual Performance and
Evaluation Report (CAPER) for Meridian's Community Development
Block Grant (CDBG) Program:
De Weerd: Thank you. I would like to say we made that as painful as we could, but we
really tried to make that easy. Okay. Item 12 is a public hearing on 2007 on
consolidated annual performance and evaluation report for the Community
Development Block Grant Program.
Friedman: Madam Mayor, Council Members, I think this hearing will probably be a little
easier than the last one.
De Weerd: That's appreciated.
Friedman: Federal regulations require the city to submit and prepare consolidated
annual performance and evaluation report every year, provide documentation to
Department of Housing and Urban Development, as well as city officials and citizens
about the activities and accomplishments undertaken during our 2007 program year to
meet the 2007 CBDG action plan. No action is really required by the Council tonight.
The main objective is to open a public comment period and so we are recommending
that you open a public comment period to extend until December 10th, 2008, and, then,
continue the public hearing from tonight until December 16th, 2008, at which time we
will come back to you with a resolution adopting our keeper.
De Weerd: Thank you, Pete. So, a request has been made. I don't see any member of
the public, unless Shelly would like to provide testimony -- that would like to make
comment that we are asking for this to be extended for written comments December
16th, where Council will take final action. Is that what I understand? Okay. Council,
any comments, questions?
Rountree: I have none. Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Move to continue hearing on Item No. 12 to December 16th.
Bird: And public comment.
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Rountree: And public comment.
Bird: To December 10th.
Rountree: December 10th.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second. This is a voice vote. Okay. All those
in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 13: Public Hearing: Water / Sewer Rate Increase:
De Weerd: Okay. Item 13 is a public hearing on the water -sewer rate increase. It was
-- we had a lot of concerns. Mr. Barry. I have opened the public hearing. I would
appreciate your introduction of this item.
Barry: Thank you, Madam Mayor, President Rountree, Members of the Council. At the
November 5th Council meeting the City Council asked that I bring back information
regarding a financial impact on possible inflationary adjustments to the water and sewer
rates. You should have received in your packets that information. It's a spreadsheet
that identifies several different scenarios and the impacts associated with those
scenarios for inflationary adjustments to water and sewer rates. The recommendation,
as you may recall from the last meeting on November 5th that we -- when we discussed
this item, is for 4.6 percent. That's based on the federal index, which are -- which
currently is being tracked between January and through September. October is not
posted yet. For water the recommended rate increase increases the base fee from
$4.04 to $4.23 and the water usage charge from $1.39 to $1.45 per thousand gallons
used. For sewer the recommended rate increases the base fee from $4.74 to $4.96
and the usage charge from $3.04 to $3.18 per thousand gallons. These adjustments
would equate, essentially, to a total bill increase for the average family in the month of
$1.61 for that month or for each month I should say. Again, while this does offset
inflationary adjustment -- inflationary cost associated with bringing services, as you
know, this does not meet the needs -- or the projected needs of the utilities and, as you
know, we are undertaking study to pursue implementation of modification at a later time.
Just for your information, the last adjustment was made in July of 2007, about 16
months ago. So, with that I'll address any questions or comments you may have.
De Weerd: Council, any questions at this time? This is a public hearing. Would you
like to provide testimony? Okay.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I would like the record to note that there are no public
present this evening and Ralph is not even here with us this evening, so --
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November 25, 2008
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De Weerd: But Shelly is.
Rountree: Staff is here and, Shelly, we will count you as a public.
Bird: Frank isn't even here.
Rountree: Yeah. Frank's not even here.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you for that note for the public record. Council, any questions
at this point for Tom? I think we -- he's been pretty specific in the steps and in this
model. Okay. Hearing none, Counsel, I would entertain a motion to close the public
hearing.
Bird: So moved.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing on Item 13. All
those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Okay. Do I have a motion?
Rountree: Madam Mayor, just a point of discussion before we have a motion, that when
you look at the -- the 4.6 that we talked about for inflation and, then, the table also
shows what -- a five percent, which was, actually, what was noticed, not to exceed, we
are only talking a few cents difference between the two and given that we are looking at
relatively large increases to reflect the actual cost of doing business yet to come, I
would suggest that we move -- consider, contemplate, act on, an increase of five
percent.
Zaremba: If that's a motion, I would second it.
Rountree: Well, I just wanted some discussion on -- that's kind of what the numbers tell
me. There is not that big of difference between the two.
De Weerd: Well, any further comments from Council?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I, too, agree that we may as well go the five percent and -- there isn't that -- and
we noticed it as up to five percent, so we are okay. I -- there certainly isn't any
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heartburn on my part. Just some heartburn we have to raise it. I have to pay higher
fees.
De Weerd: Further comments or do I have a motion?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I would move that we implement an increase for sewer and water utilities in
the amount of five percent to reflect the inflationary impact of -- on our Public Works this
past year.
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second. For the record, the five percent equates to
$1.76 as stated on the chart in front of the City Council. Is that correct, Tom?
Barry: Mayor, that $1.76 is just a reflection of the average monthly bill increase. So,
you would probably want to be as specific as possible as it relates to the -- to the base
and usage charges for water and for sewer, so if I understand you correctly -- and the
Council's intent possibly is at the five percent the base water rate would go to $4.24 and
the usage for water, that rate would go to $1.46 per 1,000 gallons. And, then, for sewer
the base rate would go to $4.98 cents and the usage charge would go to $3.19 per
1,000 gallons used. So, those are probably the four numbers you would want to use in
a motion to not apply the rates at the five percent level.
De Weerd: I believe that's what he said.
Rountree: That was my intent.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Just restating what -- the chart that is referenced in front of the Council in
the public record and was this chart the one included in the public noticing or was it just
stated up to five percent?
Rountree: Up to five percent.
Holman: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, just up to five percent.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Yes, Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: First, the second agrees with the maker of the motion that that is included.
Second, have we established an effective date? We at one time discussed about
January 1st.
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De Weerd: What is the recommendation from the director?
Rountree: What's the recommendation from staff?
Bary: The recommendation, I believe, would be mid January and for that reason -- the
reason that is being recommended is to get through the billing cycles for noticing, just
as a courtesy to our customers who would like to get through each billing cycle and my
understanding was that having this hearing tonight would require an implementation of
mid January in order to make sure we have fulfilled those notices. So, my
recommendation would be probably the 15th of January. I don't know what day that
falls on, but probably somewhere around there would be sufficient.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor, do we know what the actual billing date is?
De Weerd: January 15th is on -- excuse me just a moment. So, January 15th is on a
Thursday. The 16th is a Friday. Any preference there?
Bary: I'm not familiar exactly with the billing cycles, so I'm probably not the best person
to ask and if I may Shelly Gallagher, our utility billing manager, is here and she might be
able to address that and help provide some guidance as to a more suitable date for
implementation.
De Weerd: Come on down. Mr. Zaremba, did you have a question?
Zaremba: Yes. My question was what is the billing cycle date.
Gallagher: Well, we bill on the 5th and the 20th of each month, but the reading dates
are different than the billing cycle dates, so I'd really have to look at my calendar in my
office to give you a good answer to that question on what the day might be. And I think
we ought to go with the reading date, instead of the cycle date, just because -- just
because I think it's fairer to do that.
De Weerd: The reading date is when?
Gallagher: It's -- well, it's usually -- seems to be about 20 days before the billing cycle
date. So, if it was the 5th, it would be -- I don't have a calendar in front of me, so --
because we read ahead before we bill. I think we'd probably be safer to go with
January 5th. I think it's going to be close in there, Tom. It would be close in there. If
we go with the 15th or if you get closer to the 15th, you're talking about probably the
next billing cycle. I think we should probably go with the 5th. That's a Monday.
Bary: Madam Mayor? Mrs. Gallagher, does that provide sufficient time for us to notice
in the upcoming bills our customers in both cycles?
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November 25, 2008
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Gallagher: Well, yes, we have the billing on the 5th of December and, then, the 20th of
December.
Barry: Okay.
Gallagher: So, yes, they would get one billing cycle notice.
Barry: Great.
Gallagher: And we were actually talking about it in our department and we think that
maybe we ought to do a little insert on a color piece of paper, instead of just putting a
little blurb on the bottom of the bill. It seems to get the customer's attention a little bit.
You know, as far as -- they really kind of look at it. At the bottom of the bill when we put
a tag line in it seems to -- you know, I don't know about you, but sometimes I don't read
that little section on my bill, so we were thinking we'd like to take the extra expense to
do that.
Zaremba: I agree.
De Weerd: I agree. They don't read it. Okay. So, January 5th.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, the maker of the motion agrees that that's an effective date.
Zaremba: Second agrees.
De Weerd: Okay. Okay. We have a motion to approve the new rates to be effective
January 5th, 2009. If there is no further discussion, Madam Clerk, will you, please, call
roll.
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: Okay. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 14: Public Hearing: Fee for Rental of Rooms in New City Hall:
De Weerd: Okay. We are at Item 14, which is a public hearing on fee for rental of
rooms in the new City Hall. Mr. Baird, are you doing this one?
Baird: Madam Mayor, I can certainly take a stab at it. Mr. Nary briefed me regarding
the rental fees for the room we are talking about, the meeting room on the right as you
enter the building. It's, actually, two separate rooms. The proposal is to utilize the
existing rates as have been set at the police department, that one of those rooms would
be 25 dollars for a rental period. Both rooms would be 50 dollars. I do have a draft of
the revisions to the meeting space reservation policy and regulations that set the times
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November 25, 2008
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and dates for use of that room would be identical to what are currently in the police
department, that would be Monday through Friday only from 8:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m.
Purposes for the meeting were for only for meetings, not for profit type ventures,
commercial enterprises, displays or shows, acceptance for City Hall would have to be
approved by the Mayor.
Holman: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, if I could just interject for one second
and clarify a little bit more on what Mr. Baird said. The 25 dollars and the 50 dollars, it's
for a half day rate. A full day rate would be 50 and 100 if they were -- does that make
sense?
De Weerd: Yeah. We have that as --
Holman: Okay. Just making sure that's clear.
Baird: So, those are the big things.
De Weerd: We got the big things. We did have a short discussion on this during a
workshop session. Any questions from City Council?
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I have a question on what Jaycee just said, the notice
indicates that it's four and eight hour rental and it's 25 and 50, but for both rooms it's 50
and 100. That's what you just said?
Holman: That's correct. It's just double the price if you're doing both rooms.
Rountree: Okay.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: A question for discussion, I guess. Would we want to add the statement
someplace that if a group brings in food service they are responsible for cleaning it up
as well?
Baird: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council that actually is in the existing policies
that apply both to the police and here. You're the only ones who get to bring in food as
a City Council. The public is prohibited from bringing food into -- it says no food will be
allowed in the meeting space. Beverage such as coffee, soda, and water are allowed
only in appropriate containers with lids and that's in an effort to reduce the wear and
tear on the floor and the clean up cost.
Zaremba: Thank you.
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Rountree: Madam Mayor, I'm sure it's there, but, Ted, would you refresh my memory
on who would be assessed these fees.
Baird: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Rountree, the entity or
person requesting the rental and filling out the agreement would be paying the fees in
advance. There is a provision that they would be subject to assessments if they left the
room dirty that required additional cleanup, that kind of thing. So, it's a system that
seems to have been working pretty well at the police department. We are just adapting
it for this building. I do have a concern about the hours and the locking of the door
under the current security that we have, but I think those details can be worked out as
we put the fix on our -- our card system and the door locks and whatnot. But if it
appears that the room may be rented out by an entity when the building is otherwise
vacant, leaving somebody to have to lock that front door and that could be an issue.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, my question is does the fee apply to another governmental
entity?
Baird: Ah.
Rountree: Is it fair or is that kind of a subjective call on the part of the city clerk or
whoever is going to control that?
De Weerd: From my understanding, when we had this discussion in the workshop is if
a City Council member is involved or the Mayor, that it isn't. Which has been how it's
been dealt with at the police station.
Baird: Is that something that you'd like to have set out in the policy or --
Rountree: Well, Madam Mayor, I see like VRT is going to be using our building next
week.. There could be a point in time where say in their executive committee there isn't
a member from the City of Meridian on that and they might want to use our facility,
would they, then, have to pay a fee? The other one is like Western Ada Recreation
District utilizes a room currently. There is city representation on that elected board, but
it could be six years from now where that's not the case. Would they, then, be subject
to a fee?
And I suspect there is some other folks that are out there that -- the historic preservation
group that's not necessarily a city committee --
De Weerd: The preservation commission is not, but the Meridian Historical is.
Rountree: One of those groups is not, so I guess my feeling is they have historically
used City Hall without a charge. I would be okay if that continued, but I think it needs to
be in policy somewhere and I don't know what everybody else thinks about that.
De Weerd: Well, I might note, too, one where the --
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Rountree: Our fire district.
De Weerd: -- our Boys and Girls Club are leased to the former police department.
They agreed to withdraw that with the promise that they would be able to meet here and
it is a lunch meeting, so those need to be captured.
Bird: They can't meet in their new facility, the Boys and Girls?
De Weerd: It's built for kids, not for the board.
Bird: They just have no way?
De Weerd: Yeah. There is no meeting room.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I have a hard time -- like Charlie, there is -- you know, there is a lot of nonprofit
organizations that -- there is a couple that do have council participation, but not all the
time, maybe. I have a hard time charging them. A lot of these organizations is -- have
spent their money to improve the City of Meridian's facilities. But where do you draw
the line? To me he -- the main athletic roundtable who -- strictly nonprofit, that has put
in over 200,000 in Storey Park, whether there is a Council Member on their board or
not, shouldn't be charged here. Western Ada, who is a partner with us, even though
they are a taxing entity, should not be charged. They do nothing but add to our park
system. So, like I say, where do you draw the line? That's my real concern. It's
charging for facilities in a public building I guess is like charging for parking at a public
deal. I don't like it. Now, if it's to -- if people come in and use these and leave them in
clutter and stuff, then, that's something else. But everybody I have ever seen that's
used our City Hall leaves it just as clean as when they left it -- or when they come in.
So, I don't -- I don't know. I -- I have a real problem with it. But I can certainly
understand that that there is people -- you know, some guy comes in here and charges
50 dollars a head to put on some seminar or economic thing, well, heck, yes, he should
have to pay for the rental, but --
De Weerd: Well, as it is they can't rent it.
Bird: Uh?
De Weerd: They would not be able to rent it.
Baird: But, Madam Mayor, you point out sort of a conundrum here. What if a nonprofit
sells tickets to a seminar? Are they going to be exempt?
Bird: You're right. I agree with you.
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November 25, 2008
Page 72 of 75
Baird: If I could take a step back and sort of give the statutory philosophy of charging
fees for things like this that are already supported by tax dollars, the reason that a public
hearing is required, of course, you get these all the time, is you do have taxpayers
already paying for it, but certainly people receive additional benefits and in receiving
those benefits the city in incurring additional expenses on lighting, heating, clean-up, so
it's for you to decide as you're trying to wrestle with now, who gets those benefits, what
are they charged, you know, is there going to be a sliding scale perhaps? Will there be
an approved list of those who are exempt that can be updated annually. Is the Mayor
the authority for approving requests for waivers of the fee? Those are all different ways
you could -- you could deal with that. The Mayor, the City Council --
De Weerd: I think it should be the --
Bird: You don't want to do it?
De Weerd: It's Council President, if you ask me. I think we need an annually approved
list and that kind of puts it in the annual cycle as things change, but we need a list and it
can't be fluid. And if someone wants -- and I don't know -- maybe there is someone we
don't consider, we catch them next year. I just think you need to have some finality to
this and that's my suggestion.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I agree. I mean we got to charge, but where do -- we need to make a list and
you know, like I said earlier, there is a lot of -- there is -- and by the time the list gets
we probably -- we probably won't be charging, because there won't be anybody else
outside of the list, so, anyway, what do you do? I don't know. I just got heartburn doing
something like this. But I know it's necessary.
Rountree: Move forward with the list and we will --
De Weerd: So, approve the fee structure tonight?
Rountree: Yeah.
De Weerd: And bring back a list and --
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I move that we approve the meeting fee structure as
presented --
De Weerd: Can we first close the public hearing?
Rountree: It would have to be held over?
Meridian City Council
November 25, 2008
Page 73 of 75
De Weerd: No.
Bird: No.
Rountree Well, I move to close the public hearing.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing on Item 14. All
those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I move that we approve the fee structure as presented in the
posted notice for the use of the City Hall meeting rooms and direct the preparation of a
list of those entities that will not be subject to the fee structure. Sorry, Dean.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to do what he said. And a second. Madam
Clerk, will you, please, call roll.
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 17: Ordinance No.: AZ 06-063 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 38.68
acres from RUT and R-1 zones to C -G zones for Waltman Property (aka
Browning Plaza) by Waltman, LLC — 505, 521, 615 and 675 Waltman
Lane:
De Weerd: Item 17 is an ordinance proposed 08-1390. 1 will ask -- on AZ 06-063. I'll
ask Madam Clerk to, please, read this by title only.
Holman: Thank you, Madam Mayor. City of Meridian Ordinance No. 08-1390, an
Ordinance AZ 06-063, Waltman Property, for annexation of parcel for annexation
purposes located in the northwest one quarter of the southeast one quarter of Section
13, Township 3 North, Range 1 West, Boise Meridian, Ada County, Idaho, as described
in Attachment A and annexing certain lands and territories situated in Ada County,
Idaho, and adjacent and contiguous to the corporate limits of the City of Meridian, as
required by the City of Meridian, establishing and determining the land use zoning
classification of said lands from RUT and R-1, Ada County, to C -G and service
commercial district in the Meridian City Code, providing that copies of this ordinance
Meridian City Council
November 25, 2008
Page 74 of 75
shall be filed with the Ada County Assessor, the Ada County Recorder, and the Idaho
State Tax Commission as required by law and providing for a summary of the ordinance
and providing for a waiver of the reading of the rules and providing an effective date.
De Weerd: You have heard this ordinance read by title only. Since there is no member
of the public in the audience, I will not ask if anyone wants to hear it read in its entirety.
So, Council, I would entertain a motion.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we approve 08-1390, with suspension of rules.
Hoaglun: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second on Item 17 to approve with suspension of
rules. There is no discussion. Madam Clerk, will you, please, call roll.
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 18: EXECUTIVE SESSION: IDAHO CODE 67-2345(1)(a).
De Weerd: Okay. Last item on our agenda, Council, is an Executive Session.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we go into Executive Session as per Idaho State Code 67-2345(1)(a).
Hoaglun: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second. Madam Clerk, will you, please, call roll.
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carnes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
EXECUTIVE SESSION:
Meridian City Council
November 25, 2008
Page 75 of 75
Rountree: I move we come out of Executive Session.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: A motion and a second to come out of Executive Session. All in favor say
aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Rountree: I move we adjourn.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: A motion and a second to adjourn. All those in favor.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 11:24 P.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
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