HomeMy WebLinkAbout2008 10-21Meridian City Council Special Workshop Meeting October 21, 2008
A meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:00 p.m., Tuesday,
October 21, by President Charlie Rountree.
Members Present: Tammy de Weerd, David Zaremba, Keith Bird, and Charlie
Rountree.
Members Absent: Brad Hoaglun.
Others Present: Bill Nary, Jaycee Holman, Tom Barry, Keith Watts, Matt Ellsworth,
Bruce Freckleton, Scott Steckline, John Overtson, Steve Siddoway, Mark Niemeyer,
and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
X David Zaremba X Brad Hoaglun
X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
Rountree: I will open the Meridian Council Special Meeting Workshop for Tuesday,
October 21st, 2008. And it's certainly an honor and privilege for me to officiate and
open the first official City Council meeting in our new City Hall and there will be many
more to come. Before we get into our agenda items, I don't know if anybody up here
wanted to make a comment. Madam Mayor? Council?
De Weerd: Comment about what?
Rountree: First meeting City Hall. That kind of great stuff.
De Weerd: I don't have my glasses, so I can't think.
Rountree: So she can't think. All right.
De Weerd: Mr. President?
Rountree: Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: Well, this is day two residing in the new City Hall and it's a phenomenal
building and we appreciate those that are here to report to us all of the effort and time
that's gone into this. Certainly we know in the upcoming days and maybe the next
couple of weeks we will be working out a couple of bugs and fine tuning it, so by the
time we have our official opening on the November 21st we will be ready to show it off
in true fashion that is -- is befitting a beautiful building like this. I had the privilege of
hosting a Boy Scout meeting today and of those Boy Scouts probably a dozen of them
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Meridian City Council Special Meeting Workshop
October 21, 2008
Page 2 of 46
-- three of them wanted to be mayor and they wanted to be mayor at this City Hall. So,
you have built a building where the youth of our community have a pride and a sense of
belonging enough that they want to belong in it and I think that really speaks to the
intent in creating not just four walls, but a building that lives generation after generation
that our community can take pride in and those boys set the tone very nicely today.
Zaremba: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I would comment that I am thrilled to be here in this new City Hall. Many of
the decisions about the City Hall were made before I became a city councilman, so if
you find things that you like, I'll take credit for them and if you find things you don't, it
happened before my watch, so --
De Weerd: ®h, brother.
Rountree: Sounds like a politician.
Zaremba: But I am thrilled and this is an exiting moment for the city and for me to be a
part of it I'm very proud and this is something that we can look forward to using for years
and years and years. We have left some space to grow into as the city continues to
grow and even before I got involved, the planning that went into this and the preparation
that went into this I think is outstanding work and I'm thrilled to have a small part in it
and to continue in it as long as I can.
Bird: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: This is something that Mr. Rountree and I have been looking forward to since I
think our first space study was '98 and when we started really getting plans going for it.
It definitely turned out as nice or nicer than I dreamed it would. It's something that the
citizens of Meridian will have for years and years and years and can be very proud of.
We -- I felt we have tried to do everything first class to make sure that this building is a
lasting legacy to this community and I'm sure it will be. I'm just very thankful of being
able to be involved with it and I thank everybody -- all the staff and everybody that
worked so hard to see that this got done and I certainty appreciate it.
Rountree: I echo all those comments and express my thanks to everybody that was
involved. So, with no more to do, I will ask the city clerk to take attendance.
Item 2: Adoption of the Agenda:
Rountree: Next item on the agenda is the adoption of the agenda.
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Meridian City Council Special Meeting Workshop
October 21, 2008
Page 3 of 46
Zaremba: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I move we adopt the agenda as published.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to adopt the agenda. All those in favor?
Opposed? Motion passes.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 3: CONSENT AGENDA
A. New Beer 8~ Wine License for Good Thyme Grille ~ Catering,
LLC at 750 S. Progress Ave. Ste. 170
B. Task Order with MTI for Settler's Square Phase 1
Improvements for $2,905
Rountree: Next item is the Consent Agenda.
Zaremba: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I move we adopt the Consent Agenda and for the Mayor to sign and the
Clerk to attest.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to adopt the Consent Agenda. All in favor?
All ayes. Motion passes.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 4: COMMUNITY ITEMS/PRESENTATIONS
A. Valley Regional Transity Discussion on transit Amenities
Rountree: Next item on the agenda is Department Reports and -- no. We are not on
that. I'm a page ahead of myself. Sony about that. We have a presentation from
Valley Regional Transit. Mary Barker.
Barker: Is this the correct spot? I'm not used to your new setting.
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Meridian City Council Special Meeting Workshop
October 21, 2008
Page 4 of 46
De Weerd: Neither are we.
Rountree: You are the first.
Barker: There you go. Thank you, Chairman and Members of the Council. I was asked
to come today to kind of open a discussion about the bus bench project that Valley
Regional Transit is doing. If you're not aware, Valley Regional Transit has just
completed putting in a bus stop system. We now have over 700 bus stops in Ada and
Canyon County. It's been a huge project for us. It was completed today. Our next step
on this project is to implement infrastructure amenities at these stops. We have a
budget that has been building up over the last couple of years to work on this project
and, then, we will continue to get federal funding each year to add onto the project. So,
we have a pot of about 300,000 dollars to start with and we will be adding onto .that
each year as federal money becomes available. We have targeted at this point four
things that we would like to do with that budget for the infrastructure at the bus stops.
One is benches for customers. One is shelters. The other one is bike amenities. And
the fourth is ADA enhancements to make sure that our stops, at the very least, meet
ADA requirements, if not exceed ADA requirements. Those four are not presented to
you in order of priority; they are just the four that we have on our list that we would like
to -- to use this budget to work towards. The first one that we are going to do timing-
wise is the bus benches.. We worked with our board and our on local cities and decided
that given our limited budget, we would like to do bus benches that have advertising
benches. The reason we are taking this approach is that a lender would, then, foot the
capital bill for those benches, so that we would be able to put in benches for our
passengers and our customers and the cost would be at the vendor's cost, as opposed
to ours, which would, then, preserve the budget that we have for some of those other
priorities that we would like to do at the stops. I have been meeting with all of the
different cities, including the City of Meridian staff, over the last month to talk to them
about this project. Our goal is to have a consistent vendor throughout the two county
area, so that everybody who comes to a bench will know it's a bus stop, will know it's a
bus bench, and so that we have a consistent look throughout the region. In talking with
all of the different cities, they have all -- pretty much all of them indicated to me that they
have downtown historic areas where they would like to preserve a look that may be
different than they would like to preserve -- need to preserve in outlying areas. So, the
request for proposal that we are putting together for a bid on this project includes
requesting a bench for these downtown designated historic areas or downtown districts
as the cities define them, that isn't a typical advertising bench. It might be a sponsored
bench or a bench that has no advertising on it at all. But we are requesting that the
vendor come back and propose to us how they would handle these special areas. The
reason I'm here today is that in my meeting with the Meridian staff, currently your city
code does not allow for a bus bench -- or for bench advertising and I would just like to
bring this project that we are working on over to you, so that if you would like look at
your particular code and decide whether you want to keep that code or change that
code, so that you can participate in this project with us, that we can -- we can start that
process, if that's something that you choose. The way I'm putting together the numbers
Meridian City Council Special Meeting Workshop
October 21, 2008
Page 5 of 46
for the proposal for the request for proposal does -- currently does not include the
Meridian stops. Any vendor I'm sure who receives the award would be happy to do
more stops, rather that fewer stops, so if the City Council should decide to re-look at
that code and make a change in it, we would I'm sure be able to add those stops in the
future. So, that was what I wanted to bring forward, just to make you aware of that
opportunity to participate and what your code allows and doesn't allow in respect to that.
Rountree: Thank you, Mary. Any comments or discussion? I would say I think we all
understand why our ordinance is the way it is and it seems to me that we could go
through a process to amend our ordinance to accommodate what we now see as some
unified action for advertising bus benches, as opposed the randomness that was
mentioned in advertising on benches that weren't bus stops to people of the city. I
guess from my perspective I think we will now take a look at our ordinance and try and
make those corrections. Anybody else?
Zaremba: Mr. President, I would agree that the existing ordinance was kind of an
emergency and because we had people calling and complaining that they sat on a bus
bench someplace and no bus came by and we discovered that advertisers were just
making things look like bus benches and many of them were not of a quality that
probably were even safe to sit on. So, I agree with President Rountree, we are ready to
look at that ordinance and revise it and accommodate the needs of Valley Regional
Transit. At least I am.
Bird: I agree.
Rountree: Mr. Bird. I guess the direction from the Council is work with Mr. Nary to take
a look at our ordinance and come up with a draft that will address not only the benches,
but some way to tie it to the vendor that is selected, so we can have a unified approach
in the two counties.
Nary: Mr. President, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, we will do that. I will
contact Mrs. Canning from Planning and we will start processing that, because it has to
go through the Planning and Zoning Commission, as well as the City Council. So, it
does take us awhile to do that, but we will be in that discussion so we can bring that
forward.
Barker: My timing is to try and have a vendor selected, so that the benches can start
going in in the spring. There will be seven to eight hundred of them, so it will take some
time and we are certainly welcome to have Meridian join us whenever the code and the
ordinance is ready to go, so -- and the other thing I wanted to add is that our goal is to
put out there an amenity for the citizens of the community is funded by an
advertisement, not a piece of furniture whose sole purpose is to post an advertisement
along the street. So, they will look very different than what's out there now. And I have
also asked staff to provide a member from the city of Boise -- or the City of Meridian
staff to be on our selection committee for that request for proposal, so you will have
some input as to the vendor selected.
Meridian City Council Special Meeting Workshop
October 21, 2008
Page 6 of 46
Rountree: Very good.
Barker: Thank you.
B. Update on new City Hall Building.
Rountree: Thanks, Mary. Next item on the agenda is the update on the new City Hall.
Gene.
Bennett: Thank you, President Rountree, Madam Mayor, and Members of City Council.
Before we get into the report, which is in front of you, I'd like to give you a short version
and that is welcome to your new City Hall. With that I'd like to let you know that the
project was completed within the projected budget. The project was delivered when it
was promised time-wise. Actually, five weeks ahead of the contract -- contractual
requirement dates. You don't do that without some men spending some nights and
some weekends and I'd like to recognize those men right now. Jack, general
superintendent. Scott. Scott's our electrical mechanical superintendent and took care
of the commissioning on the building. Nick is still working nights and weekends. He's
taking care of your -- your lead requirements. And Steve with Lombard Conrad, the
architect, put together the drawings.
De Weerd: Now, I didn't see him, Gene, all weekend and at night, but I did see the
other ones.
Bennett: He was doing that before we got here. With that tonight's presentation -- Jack
will brief you on what -- what remains to be done with the east parking lot. Nick will
bring you up to speed on LEED. And Steve has a short presentation on a potential
addition to some of the site work. Thank you.
Vaughn: Mr. President, Madam Mayor, Members of the Board, it's my pleasure to be
here tonight in this building. It's my personal pride that goes into every one of my
projects and I'm very proud of this building. I'd also like to expand Gene's
acknowledgement. We have had a lot of wonderful trades, electricians, HVAC -- I could
go on and on, the workers, wallpaper hangers, painters -- that I have had a privilege to
work with over the last few months and I would like to recognize them as well. My topic
is schedule. The building is complete and you're moved in. We are continuing to help
support the move in of the next three buildings, I believe. The five departments still
need to move in will be this weekend and we will continue to help support that. Josh
over there with AAtronics is here tonight to support the new system and make sure
everything is running good. Once, again, an indication of the support from our
subcontractors. The east parking lot is continuing. We are finishing the last seepage
bed now. We have removed all the unnecessary underground that was part of the
demolition. We have moved all electrical poles. We are relocating telephone lines and
so forth like that. We are in the process of laying the underlayment for the curb and
gutter to go in. As soon as we get that intersection portion done, we will go ahead and
Meridian City Council Special Meeting Workshop
October 21, 2008
Page 7 of 46
pull our permit to close down lane closures on Main and Broadway, so that we can do
the demolition of the necessary curbs out there and get those put back in a timely
manner. We do at this point anticipate having black top down before November 21st,
which is the proposed grand opening date here. We don't believe the landscaping will
be a hundred percent complete, but we will be progressing on that. December 20th is
the expected completion date -- no later than that is what the contractors -- the four
contractors involved out there are committed to. We have -- in the process in trying to
wrap up the plaza, our architectural engineer -- excuse me -- our landscape engineer
visited a couple weeks ago to look over the initial process and the flow of water and we
have had some minor adjustments on those to make involving some copper weirs and
so forth and that's, actually, due in tomorrow, the new copper for those. So, not all the
water features are running. It's a very delicate process to try to balance all the water
from different sources and so it's almost a field adjustment, if you will, and we made that
a couple of weeks ago and we are getting that material in now. As you have seen, the
water features out front, the two primary water features are .running. We anticipate
having that building -- the restroom completed, the Heritage building, within the next
week or week and a half, where we can totally open up that plaza. That will just leave
us the east parking lot. The retaining wall that was added between there and Zamzows
is proceeding and we should be able to landscape all that back hill for the amphitheater
within the next two weeks as well. So, that will just leave us just the parking lot on the
east to have construction activity. As we complete the activity we will continue to move
out our construction banner, so that more and more of the plaza is available for public
use. I will entertain any questions you have on schedule.
Rountree: Any questions for Jack? Thank you.
Vaughn: Thank you, sir.
Rountree: Nick.
Ploetz: Council President, Madam Mayor, City Council. Brief LEED updates. We had
commissioning agents in last -- two weeks ago to finish their functional testing. Things
went relatively smoothly. As much as possible. We are getting reports back from them
Friday on their findings and we should mitigate any situations in those. The indoor air
quality -- the flush went well. We let it out a few days based on their commissioning of
the building. We are projected out to 36 points as proposed. Right now I'm currently
filing documentation to submit the USGBC. If you tum to the next page, recycling
content is running roughly 83 percent and today I got the rest of it and it's going to come
out at 83 percent for the entire building, so --
Bird: That's great.
Ploetz: Any further questions?
Rountree: Nick, I'd just ask you -- you project 36 points or are you pretty optimistic that
that's where we will end up?
Meridian City Council Special Meeting Workshop
October 21, 2008
Page 8 of 46
Ploetz: Based on the construction points, yes, and based on what I hear from the
architects and the engineers, we should be able to obtain that. We won't be able to see
if that's certified for at least another year it's going to take. The commissioning agent
will have to come back and recommission the building in roughly ten months. So, we
won't see that -- those credits submitted until at least a year before we see the
certification, but you should be able to achieve silver.
Rountree: Thank you.
De Weerd: Mr. President?
Rountree: Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: I would like to congratulate you and Petra. Certainly the recycled material
percentage is very impressive and I know that you took great diligence to keeping that
number in the 80 plus percentage points and I don't know how many projects, if any,
have achieved that kind of recycle rate, but we appreciate your diligence and tenacity in
making sure that you kept those numbers high, so --
Ploetz: Subs helped out a lot with that and SSC, the waste management service, they
did a very good job helping us out with that.
De Weerd: SSC is tremendous. And we really want to make sure that as we progress
towards the grand opening that those subs are specifically and specially invited, so we
can recognize them in a more formal way. But thank you.
Ploetz: Thanks.
Rountree: Thanks, Nick. Gene, did you have any further comments? Or Steve.
Simmons: President Rountree, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Steve
Simmons, LCA Architects, and a couple things we'd like to go over tonight is we want to
have one last opportunity to look at some historic reflection, if you will, in connection to
the project, but, first, I'd also like to chime in and thank everyone for the opportunity on
behalf of the design team to work on this project. Earlier on, like Gene referenced, we
did spend a lot of late night hours working -- there were over seven different engineering
architectural firms involved in the project and 17 different design professionals that
worked on it as well. So, it is, along with the city and the committee that was put
together, it's been an effort on all of our parts to get to today and I know its been -- I
equate it oftentimes to having another child. I have two and now I have three, I guess,
another one, and hope that things go well here as well. So, it is a privilege for us and
we do appreciate the opportunity and thank you very much. I'm also tonight -- if the -- if
this was on, if we can tum on the projector. We have an overhead. Can everybody see
that? I have also handed out to you a small eight and half by 11 of this and during the
design process the committee -- the design committee and the -- your committee, your
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Meridian City Council Special Meeting Workshop
October 21, 2008
Page 9 of 46
design committee as well, working jointly with us, looked for all the opportunities we
could to tie this facility and this campus and this core of the city to the -- to the historic
opportunities that we could, that the city had spring from. As you recall, several of those
are the Heritage building itself, which has the recycled brick that we salvaged from the
creamery facility that is now -- it was to our south originally. We also have the cast iron
door from the smoke stack that's on that that will house the time capsule that the city will
put in there. Wood from that demolition was -- is being used to make the panel signage
for the historic folks to be able to display those artifacts as well. The water feature as
well, it ties into the history, springing from File Mile Creek, which is reflected in our pools
and our creek on the south end of the plaza, or the more structure engineered solution
on the north side, with the canal troughs reflecting how that all came to be an
agricultural base of Meridian. We have one last opportunity and the railroad tracks that
were here in the alley that went east-west have -- of course, are long been abandoned
and there is an opportunity to look at perhaps utilizing those and making one last
connection to the history of this site and what this building currently sits on. What you
have before you is a -- we have a hundred feet of track that, actually, was on Zamzow's
property and they have donated to the project to be put back in, along with a paver
connection section headed to the east from our plaza east over towards Main Street.
There is a hundred foot there, because that's what we have, we have a hundred feet,
two pieces of track, if you will, so what we are proposing, if the city would wish to do
that, would be to embed those rails and a paver section, along with pavers and
concrete, so they are permanently attached, and, there, again, tied back to what the
history of the site was, what it came from,and be able to preserve that for future
generations to appreciate. We can't make -- we don't go any further east, because we
are just flat out of track and, then, that would -- also, there is some of the site drainage
that Zamzows and others have in that area that it's not really -- we can't get into it at this
point in our project. But there is that opportunity to make one last attachment, if you
will. I would also encourage you not only -- no matter what you do, is to look at some
opportunities to put in interpretive signage. The features that we have talked about and
all these connections, if they are there, need to be out there in the public so they
understand some of those. Some might be very subtle, some might be very obvious,
but it's nice for the folks to understand that, so perhaps we ought to look at doing some
signage out on site of some of these amenities, so people understand what they came
from and where they have been and where they are going. The cost of that additional
work would be roughly 15,000 dollars for that concrete extension, along with a rail
embedment and, then, does provide, basically, the back bone for a future connection --
pedestrian connection over to Main Street back over to our plaza. So, with that I could
answer any questions regarding that.
Rountree: Any questions?
De Weerd: Mr. President?
Rountree: Madam Mayor.
Meridian City Council Special Meeting Workshop
October 21, 2008
Page 10 of 46
De Weerd: I guess we are looking for your agreement with this addition and it is an
addition.
Simmons: It is.
De Weerd: We did get Mr. Zamzow's -- Jim Zamzow's permission to utilize the railroad
ties and, you know, as we looked at the design, we wanted to preserve that alleyway as
the view comdor into the City Hall, but it also was the desire to work those rails into
some kind of a feature to preserve the significance and the importance of that rail
corridor to the historical value of this site. So, it's -- and you did mention the amount,
15,000 dollars?
Simmons: Yes, ma'am.
Rountree: Any other comments? Discussion?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: I would comment that I would like to see the interpretive signs for sure. As
far as the new sidewalk utilizing the rails and pavers, as long as there is a condition that
that facility would be replaced upon any activity on the adjacent property that might
disturb them, but if we couldn't obtain that, I'm not sure I would be willing to move
forward with making that improvement, only to have them removed in the next four or
five or six years.
De Weerd: Mr. President?
Rountree: Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: I'd certainly be willing to work with Mr. Zamzow on that.
Rountree: Any other comments, direction, thumbs up, thumbs down?
Bird: Oh, I have already given my opinion. I think it's -- I think it's a nice deal. The
signs -- interpretive signs I think are absolutely mandatory. They don't have a price on
them yet, but -- but I agree with you, Charlie, if we can get some kind of agreement, but
I think that we -- not only do we need a walkway there, but it would be nice to tie in the
rails -- rails and have the pavers and everything. While I hate to spend anymore
money, it's something that I think it is part of our lasting legacy that we are doing.
Rountree: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I would just chime in I think on what has been said. I do like the idea, but I
would want the safeguard that it's not going to get tom up, but I like the idea of having
interpretive signage, probably not ~ only there, but around where there have been
historical things saved, preserved, and used, because we may be aware of it now
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Meridian City Council Special Meeting Workshop
October 21, 2008
Page 11 of 46
because you have told us, but, you know, the general public I think would be very
interested in being able to wander around from sign to sign and see it. But it sounds
like a nice thing to do.
Simmons: Thank you. Any other questions?
Bird: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Could you direct Mr. Simmons to come back with some signs and the cost of
them, different types we can put up?
Simmons: Absolutely.
Rountree: If you would do that, appreciate it. And Mayor's office work with Keith on the
sidewalk.
Bird: Yeah.
Watts: Yeah.
De Weerd: We need a motion.
Watts: Yes, please. Upon acceptance of an agreement.
Bird: I move that we have look into interpretive signs for -- throughout the plaza for
each historical item we have out there.
Zaremba: Second.
Rountree: It's been moved and seconded to -- I believe you said look into, but contract
with LCA to --
Bird: After they bring the price back, yeah.
Rountree: Okay.
De Weerd: Mr. President, under discussion does this include authorization of
proceeding with the rail-sidewalk feature, provided we have the agreement from
Zamzows?
Bird: No. We will do that separate, because we have a price on it.
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Meridian City Council Special Meeting Workshop
October 21, 2008
Page 12 of 46
De Weerd: Okay. Just one other comment. Steve, if you can work with either Frank
and the Historical Preservation Commission or the historical society to -- on the
verbiage in explaining the different historical features, that would be fabulous.
Simmons: Madam Mayor, we would love to do that. We think it's very important. We
have a similar project we are working with -- Noel Webber, maybe many of you know
them -- had some very nice weather resistant sorts of signage that we can work with
and we were out there the other day when you hosted the media and realizing we
understand what all this is, but lay people need to walk up and be able to understand it
as well. It will have a lot more meaning to them, I think, in their heart. So, no, we'd love
to do that. Absolutely.
Bird: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Noel's the one that did the ones over in Generation Plaza, the signs over there,
and those have been up, what, 12 -- ten, 12 years and there is not a -- they haven't
even yellowed, so something like that. Anyway, question.
Rountree: Okay. The question is called. All those in favor of the motion? Motion's
passed.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Bird: Now, Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I got the cart before the horse, but, anyway, I move that we approve laying of the
rail lines with the pavers and concrete, not to exceed 15,000 dollars.
Zaremba: Second.
Rountree: It's been moved and seconded to enter into an agreement to do the pavers
on rail tracks, not to exceed 15,000 dollars.
Zaremba: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Zaremba, discussion.
Zaremba: Is that including the caveat that we have aguarantee --
Bird: Oh, yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Uh-huh.
Rountree: Okay.
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Meridian City Council Special Meeting Workshop
October 21, 2008
Page 13 of 46
Zaremba: Second agrees.
Rountree: Motion maker and second agrees that we would have the condition that be
met with the owner of the property, that it wouldn't be removed or it would be replaced if
it had to be. All those in favor of the motion? Motion passes.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Simmons: Thank you.
Rountree: Thanks, Steve. Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Before we move on, just a question for our tech people. I was able to see
that display on these screens. Should I be seeing it on my monitor as well?
Bird: No.
Zaremba: The answer is no. Okay. Thank you.
De Weerd: Eventually.
Watts: We hope to have that up next week.
Zaremba: Oh, that is going to be possible in the future?
Watts: Yes.
Zaremba: Oh. Okay.
De Weerd: You can toggle it.
Zaremba: Very nice. Okay.
Bird: Not on mine.
Item 5: DEPARTMENT REPORTS:
A. CARE Card Discussion.
Rountree: Next item on the agenda is Department Reports. Mayor's office. Care card
discussion. There is Robert.
Simison: Council President, Madam Mayor, Council, what we were tasked with doing
was after the last State of the City address and moving forward was trying to find a way
to somehow get some measurements about how we are serving our customers here in
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Meridian City Council Special Meeting Workshop
October 21, 2008
Page 14 of 46
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the city, so working with Mr. Nary and AspireOn and at the same time not trying to
reinvent the wheel, what we came up with was a very simple card that we would like to
have out at all city departments. When people come in, they get service, or potentially
when they have a contact with a police officer who just pulled them over for speeding,
that they have an opportunity to provide feedback to the city on the type of service --
customerservice that they received.
De Weerd: That includes building inspectors and everyone.
Simison: Exactly. I don't know how to operate the -- I don't know how to operate the
Elmo, but, basically, you know, we are not trying to reinvent the wheel here, this is very
similar to what Albertson's and many other businesses do, just to give us some sort of
feedback on how we are serving the community and our customers. The intention, as I
mentioned, would be just to put these up in each department on a stand, they can fill
one out right there, whether they are happy or whether they are sad and, then, either
mail them to us or deposit them into a drop box that would be located in the City Hall
lobby. So, we just wanted to bring this to your attention to get any comments that you
may have about this process before we went ahead and started getting them printed up
for distribution.
De Weerd: Can you read that?
Simison: I have additional copies.
Holman: I'm teaming. Sorry.
Simison: So, here is the rough idea, you know, just be printed on small card stock that
would be put out in the lobbies on plastic displays and with that I would be happy to
answer any questions or Mr. Nary or even perhaps the Mayor, if she's so inclined.
Bird: I say go for it.
Rountree: Any comments? Questions?
Zaremba: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I don't know quite how to phrase it, but you're asking excellent questions
here and I think it's a good idea to do this. I might add one more column -- or not
column, one more row, I guess, that would be something like how fast were you served
or did it seem to be efficient or did you feel like you waited too long? I don't know quite
how to phrase it, but that's a big customer service item for most people is did they wait
20 minutes before somebody helped them for five minutes.
De Weerd: Responsiveness.
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Meridian City Council Special Meeting Workshop
October 21, 2008
Page 15 of 46
Bird: Yeah. Responsiveness takes care of that, don't it?
Zaremba: Okay. I interpreted that to mean were they able to answer the question, but
employee knowledge is the same thing, so --okay. Responsiveness works.
Nary:. Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Mr. President, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I think what part of the
idea would be is if we notice we get a lot of comments that seem repetitive, that we are,
obviously, not capturing it in some other fashion, we may end up amending these at
some future printing, but we thought of the initial one that might -- this might be the
easiest way to get it out the door and give people some way to respond, but we will take
that in mind, if we get something that somebody doesn't -- response just means I had to
wait for a long time and we get a comment like that consistently, maybe we could add
that.
Zaremba: Okay. Thank you. And I do think it's a good idea.
Rountree: The only comment I might have, Robert, is I'm not sure -- some folks might
get confused between the Building Department and Public Works, who they had contact
with. And, then, my other comment is that I care as a councilman, as well as the Mayor
does. I know she's the one that gets the initial phone calls, but maybe between the
Mayor and Council and the city we can --
De Weerd: Okay.
Bird: 1 agree with you, Charlie, on -- I have no problem with --
Rountree: Okay with that? I think it's a grand idea.
Bird: I think it's great.
Rountree: Let's move forward and get it going.
Simison: Okay.
Rountree: Thanks, Robert.
Simison: Thank you.
B. Renaming of Kiwanis Park to Gordon Harris Park.
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Meridian City Council Special Meeting Workshop
October 21, 2008
Page 16 of 46
Rountree: Next item on the agenda is the renaming of a city park to recognize the
diligence and grand effort of one or our finest. Steve.
Siddoway: Thank you, Mr. President, Mayor, Members of Council. There is a large
group behind me to your left. We are all here to recognize one person, so, Mr. Gordon
Harris, would you come join me up here for a moment? I think Gordon Harris probably
needs little introduction to many of you and I'm probably not even the most qualified
person to be the one introducing him to you, but it is my honor to do so tonight. Gordon
has been involved with the city for years, as many of you know, and has done alot --
specifically for the parks department, but also for the city as a whole, the school district,
and others across this community. I did a little research today just to see what Cordon's
involvement has been in with what's currently known as Kiwanis Park specifically, and in
that park Gordon was involved with the fencing, with the prep for the irrigation, with the
excavation for the pond that we have out there, the wet well and the pump station
installation. The underground sewer and water that went into that park. The grading.
Gordon was instrumental in coordinating with Sesco to get donated equipment to do the
work out in that park. He also worked toward getting the shelter out there and
coordinated the inspections that were done. He's also -- that's not the only park he's
been involved in. Many of you know the large shelter that we have out at Tully Park and
Gordon and his brother, who is here tonight, were instrumental in getting that -- the
large shelter in Tully Park put up. As we thought about the contributions that this fine
man has made to our system -- parks system and our community, we thought it would
be a fitting tribute to rename Kiwanis Park to Gordon Harris Park. We have taken this
idea to the Kiwanis and we have a letter from that organization recommending that we
do so. Earlier this month we also took the .idea to the Parks and Recreation
Commission and part of your packet that you should have tonight is a formal
recommendation from the Parks and Recreation Commission suggesting that we take
action and rename the park to Gordon Harris Park. I recommend to you that we do so
and before maybe turning the microphone over to Mr. Harris, I'd like see if the Mayor
has anything she's like to add at this time.
De Weerd: Mr. President?
Rountree: Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: Yesterday Steve and I met with Gordon and first he thought we had called
him to City Hall to be a greeter and I guess we will try trickery to get anyone here. But
he cut his fishing trip short, which we appreciate, Gordon, and at first he was very
caught off guard and, then, I thought for a minute he felt I was asking for his permission,
which I wasn't. We were just there to inform him. But this is -- this is one of my mentors
and yesterday at -- Gordon had mentioned that he thought he might be tearing up and I
think, as you all know me, I never tear up, but I might. Gordon has been one of my
mentors on Kiwanis and his ability to build community -- he's not just building this park,
although I would imagine that without his tenacity this park wouldn't be built today. He
has built the fabric of the community that we are all sitting in by his actions and his
deeds and, certainly his words, but he is a man of action. He is also someone that is
Meridian City Council Special Meeting Workshop
October 21, 2008
Page 17 of 46
very committed to youth and that's why I believe that there could be no other way to
show this man the City of Meridian's gratitude more than a park that is to serve the
youth of our community and to serve the future generations that he has laid a strong
foundation of values and citizenship and if this is one small way, Gordon, that we can
show you how much your actions mean to us, we are very honored that you will allow
us to put your name on one of these parks.
Rountree: Thank you. I will take a moment to say that the effort -- and some of us
know how hard it is to get things accomplished, but the diligence and tenacity is a word
that's been used -- to me epitomize what makes Meridian a great place to live and I
thank you and your family for supporting you in these efforts and you are why we are
such a fine community and thank you.
De Weerd: Yeah. I think it was Sue that was sewing the Kiwanis K Kid vest and his
brother-in-law that was out erecting a picnic shelter with Gordon. I think he's probably
left each and every one of you in the room here to celebrate with him in one way or
another. Mack, I know I met you through one of his harebrained ideas. But we
appreciate -- we see the family support that is strong and stands tall behind him. So,
thank you for sharing this wonderful man with this community.
Siddoway: Mr. President, I'd like to give Gordon Harris a moment to share a few words.
Harris: Well, thank the Council and Mayor for all your kind words and I'm a little
overtaken. I also would like to call the fact that one of the things that was -- made
capable for me to do that -- there was a time in my life when I could and, like I said, I
have enough experience to be dangerous and so we got by with that. But I have to
recognize my wife Mary, because sometimes she didn't always support me a hundred
percent, but she didn't complain about it either, so it was -- made life a lot easier for me.
And all of my family, because without their love and respect, you know, we couldn't go
there. And, of course, the Kiwanis Club gave me the ideas and the vision that they had
to serve children fit right in with myself and so -- and I really appreciate this honor and
it's a great honor to me and to my family and so that's about all. I don't dare say too
much more. So, thank you all very much.
Rountree: Thank you. And let's get on with this and let's make it official. I'll entertain a
motion.
Bird: Mr. Chairman?
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Mr. President I mean. With great honor, for a well deserving gentleman, I would
like to see the Kiwanis Park as known now -- be change the name to the Gordon Hams
Community Park.
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Meridian City Council Special Meeting Workshop
October 21, 2008
Page 18 of 46
Zaremba: I would comment in seconding that that I have heard your name mentioned
with reference -- reverence both around Kiwanis and around the Parks Department for
years. I didn't have the pleasure of meeting you until about a year ago and it was an
honor and a pleasure and I'm very happy to second this motion. I think you honor the
community by allowing to name the park for you.
Harris: Well, I'm certainly honored, no question about that, so thank you all. And my
family. They are standing right there behind me, so --
Rountree: It's been moved and seconded to name the park in honor of Mr. Harris and
all those in favor say aye. Motion passes.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Rountree: How about a round of applause.
Siddoway: Mr. President, one quick follow up on timing. There is still some work to be
down out there before a public dedication. We need a playground for sure and we are
also looking -- we want a shelter. We are looking for ways to get that done soon, within
this fiscal year, and plan to have a public grand opening of that park next year. So, we
will publicly make the name change with a new sign out there in conjunction with a
grand opening next year with that authorization that you have given tonight.
Rountree: Very good. Thank you, Steve.
Siddoway: Thank you.
C. Parks Action Plan Implementation / Meridian ~ Amity.
Rountree: And to the Harris Family, if you wish to entertain the rest of our meeting
you're welcome to do so, but I won't hold you here if you desire to move on and
celebrate in your own ways. But thank you all for being here. Next item on the agenda
is the parks action plan. Steve.
Siddoway: Thank you, Mr. President. I wanted to take the opportunity in this less
formal workshop setting to just engage the Council in some dialogue for some counsel
and direction from you, make sure things are going to right direction. There is a general
-- some general direction that I'm looking for and, then, I'm going to focus in on a
specific area. Generally what I'm looking for is some general direction on the flexibility
that I have as director and the implementation of the parks action plan. I have a copy of
that plan here. I believe all of you are familiar with it and in the -- it's usually referred to
as the action plan and in it sets forth the plan for future park locations, sizes, et cetera.
When development applications come through one of the first things that I reference as
a director is the Comprehensive Plan map and I have a copy here of an example. I
don't know if I can see it on my screen -- yeah, I do see it on my screen. And the -- you
can see the green stars. This is an example. There is another example over here.
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Meridian City Council Special Meeting Workshop
October 21, 2008
Page 19 of 46
That represent future park sites. Now, it's always been interpreted that those park sites
can and do float, but that, in general, we want to get a park in that area. This particular
area of the Comp Plan is zoomed in near the -- the intersection of Meridian Road, which
runs north-south here, and Amity Road here and there was recently a project that came
through City Council for a Comp Plan amendment, which was approved in the area of
that park star and so this is a specific example that we can apply to a general
application. But as I -- as I refer to the action plan and look at how that is defined, it
does identify that park as site C-23 in the action plan. It gives -- it gives it an acreage --
Ithought it was on that page, but I believe it's 30 acres, and it says that its ideal location
is near the intersection of Amity and Meridian Road. Now, the very intersection is
shown on the Comp Plan map as mixed use regional, will likely be used for commercial
type uses, certainly more expensive ground than we would typically buy for a
community park that's 30 acres or larger. And one of the reasons why I bring this
specific site to you is that the site plan that's been worked on by Becky McKay, in
coordination with the landowners in that area -- so, on this map Amity Road is down
here. This is Meridian Road. They are showing a future park in their conceptual plan
there that would be shared among several different parcels and -- but the size of that --
the park that they are planning on is a neighborhood park, approximately seven acres in
size. I know -- I understand in researching this area that in the past a potential land
purchase was brought forward, but was not pursued because it was landlocked and
other issues. So, it seems to me that the right thing to do here is not to hold tight to a
30 acre community park, but to follow the direction set here and continue to search for
sites that do make sense for the community park in south Meridian. And I guess with
that as an introduction, I would just entertain any feedback that you would be willing to
give me on is that direction on track with what you would anticipate or would you like to
see some other approach taken?
Bird: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Steven, I agree with you wholeheartedly on a neighborhood park in there. I know
we need another community park south, but I believe you have to be on some kind of a
major road -- you will go to a -- a community park needs to be very visible, like Bear
Creek, Tully, but something like that is a nice neighborhood park. So, I think you're -- I
think you, in my opinion, your statement is a hundred percent right. If you can get
somebody to put in one or --
Siddoway: A portion of one, yeah.
Bird: -- a portion of one do it and if some property comes along that is a good location
in the south there -- I don't think it has to be exactly right on the comer of Amity and
those stars that were put in there were just general locations, so -- but I feel you have to
have a much better expose -- exposure for a community park than what being
landlocked back there is.
Meridian City Council Special Meeting Workshop
October 21, 2008
Page 20 of 46
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Siddoway: The center of the section. Uh-huh. Thank you.
Bird: But I agree with you.
Zaremba: Mr. President?
Rountree:. Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: And I agree with you as well. I think the one thing I would wont' about -- and
we have had this come up in a couple places in north Meridian as well, when we are
trying. to envision sometime somewhere having 30 acre parks, there probably isn't any
one project that can supply that to us and as we -- certainly appreciate the seven and
ten acre parks and do want to accept them, if somebody's willing to do it. And if it's on
the edge of a parcel where maybe the next parcel might add five acres to it ten years
from now, something like that, but I just want to be careful that we don't lose sight of the
need to have a 30 or 40 acre park sometime and let all the property be used up in
development -- you know, at some point we are going to have to say, look, here is a
spot where we are not going to get it unless we buy the land and just be alert to that and
don't let it get away from us.
Siddoway: If I might respond. I agree and I think with those larger parks, the 30 and 50
acre parks, you know, we can't expect that whole thing to come in as a donation. You
know, certainly as with Heroes Park a portion of it may be, but we are going to have to
step up and look for areas where we might purchase land to make those large
community parks happen.
De Weerd: Mr. President?
Rountree: Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: I guess I would agree with what Councilman Zaremba has stated, although I
might take it a step further in that working with the developer and maybe saying, you
know, we would like to purchase maybe five of the acres adjoining that and hope that
you get -- you know, you have property that is just to the left of that that does have
opportunity, if you can create that, and have multiple points of access or how to get to
that park, you could make it more a community asset than just a neighborhood access.
So, I wouldn't want to close the door to an option such as that with maybe the adjoining
property owners and looking at acquisition for some and maybe land donation for
another portion of it. It is close to where a pretty sizable park is, so I don't know if that is
the right location, but just to keep the dialogue open between your department and the
awareness with the planning department that that would be a desired discussion to
have.
Siddoway: To explore the options of whether it would be a community park or a
neighborhood park, but to not close the door on the community park.
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Meridian City Council Special Meeting Workshop
October 21, 2008
Page 21 of 46
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Siddoway: Okay.
Rountree: I agree with all the comments. I think anytime we have an opportunity to
expand a donation with our efforts to maybe upsize the park to something bigger than a
neighborhood park we need to look at it. We need to do that particularly in the south,
given the number of acres that we now have or will have with the 60 acres at Fairview
and Eagle in the northern part of the city. So, I think we need to work hard to try to find
some location south. I'd also caution that we don't want to go too far south.
De Weerd: Someone might be annexing.
Rountree: Yeah. It might get annexed, but --
Siddoway: But I don't hear anyone saying that -- for one project that I should be trying
to hold their feet to the fire on 30 acres for their specific site. We will work out the -- we
can get a portion, look at expanding that with other adjacent property owners and build
it from there.
Rountree: Well, I guess if you can ,get a developer to agree that over a period of time
we will pay them for the 30 acres, but they are not going to be willing to do that, I
wouldn't think.
Siddoway: Yeah. And I don't have the money to run out and buy 30 acres right now.
Rountree: Right. But I think that's something that we need to anticipate and save for.
Siddoway: Okay.
De Weerd: Look to create opportunities.
D. Care to Share Policies.
Siddoway: Yes. Okay. Well, I appreciate that very much. So, I guess we can move to
the next item. My third item on the agenda is regarding the Care To Share program
policies. The Care To Share program is a program that's been around since 1999. It's
a program that we use to provide financial help to families that can't afford to pay the full
price of recreation classes, camps, things like that and funding for that fund is received
through donations and/or grants and has not been a part of the city's general fund, but
is one that we -- we advertise the program, you know, in our activity guide and I have a
couple -- this is our current activity guide. Inside there it talks about the program, tells
people how they can donate to it and if they are someone who needs assistance, how
they can apply for it. As I have looked into this program I found that there is not a lot of
set policies for it in terms of how much money should be given to an individual who
applies. The application form that we have had in the department says that they can
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Meridian City Council Special Meeting Workshop
October 21, 2008
Page 22 of 46
receive a hundred percent funding. All they really need to do is ask. I felt as a director
that there needed to be some limit set on this policy as I work to implement it. I have
been working with the public outreach subcommittee with the planning -- the parks and
rec -- Parks and Recreation Commission and earlier this month they made a
recommendation that went through with a motion of the full commission and that is --
let's see if I need to zoom in on this. Or out. The proposed policy is that we will be
willing to fund through this program 80 percent of the cost of a class or camp, up to 150
dollars maximum per child per year and this way we have a -- by taking it from 100
percent to 80 percent, we are still providing significant assistance, but requiring some
commitment from the family that is applying for the assistance. We also have a
maximum and the way the maximum was reached, we looked at our most expensive
single offering, which is outdoor adventure camp in the summers. It's 159 dollars for a
week. Eighty percent -- if they were to apply for that, they could get -- they could get
approval to get their kid to one week of outdoor adventure camp with that upper limit.
Of course, most of the requests that we receive are not that high. I'd say they typically
are in the 30 to 40 dollar range and -- but this would give us some -- some direction, so
that -- we had one person request to be able to send their child to -- to summer camp
for the entire summer, a hundred percent funded, and I didn't think that was appropriate
to drain the entire account and spend every cent that we had on one person. So, we'd
like to -- we'd like to make sure that the limit is set at a point at which we can make sure
it gets shared among the needs of the community. A few notes. They do have to
document their -- their need, using proof of another assistance program, so that we
don't get in the business of having to assess need, they just have to provide us proof of
some other federal program or state program. Awards are granted on a first come, first
serve basis and I have proposed that the program will continue to be administered at
the department level, using that policy guidance and unless this Council would like
every request to come before them, but the last nine years it's been implemented at the
department level. I just wanted to make sure you were comfortable with that and with
that I will stand for any questions.
Rountree: Any questions?
Bird: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Mr. President, I want it to, I think, stay at the department of -- this is a -- I don't
know, Steve. I don't want to ever see any kid be excluded from any program because
of finances. And don't get me wrong, I know it's abused. I happen to belong to an
association that underwrites some scholarships and 99 and 9/10s percent of them are
worthy of the scholarships. The other one percent of it probably isn't. But I have a real
problem when a kid can't be involved because of lack of funds. And, you know, 20
percent -- even if it's ten dollars or 15 dollars, sometimes to some families it's not
possible. Steve, I think you're a hundred percent right, if somebody applied and says I
want to send my kid all summer to summer camp and I can't afford it, I think that's -- you
know, that's overboard. But I think your policy is a fair policy. I think you have to have a
Meridian City Council Special Meeting Workshop
October 21, 2008
Page 23 of 46
policy, to be truthful with you. So, I back it, but I think it needs to stay on the department
level. It don't need to come to us, because I don't want --
De Weerd: Because he would be paying for it every time.
Zaremba: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I do agree with the policy and the ideas behind it. Councilman Bird brings up
a point, though, that this is a policy that should be administered at the department. It's
funds that aren't actually city funds. I don't believe they are taxpayer funds, they are all
contributions. But if there were a special need -- I don't know if I would call it an appeal
process, but if there were a point where you, as director, thought, gee, this ought to be
an exception, I probably wouldn't have a problem with that coming to the Council if there
were city money that could be added. I don't want to deplete this fund, you know, on
one person or otherwise, but I -- if I'm understanding Councilman Bird's concern, I do
share that concern. I think the policy that you're proposing is a good policy and should
be exactly as you stated and administered that way, but maybe we would add -- I don't
know what you call it, an appeal process or something.
Bird: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I -- let's put it this way -- and I -- so help me God, I would do anything for kids or
families, but I'm not willing to allow taxpayer dollars to go to this. As long as it's
donations and stuff like that, I'm for it. I mean I'm personally -- if there was a hard case
or something and there isn't a single guy sitting up here -- and I can guarantee that --
that wouldn't go out and help -- try to help raise money. But when it comes to the
taxpayers' dollars, then, it's hard to judge, because, then, every taxpayer is entitled to
that benefit. So, as long as it's donations and stuff, but I'm not -- I'm not in favor at all of
taking any taxpayer dollars for something like this.
Rountree: Steve, I'm with Keith on the idea of I don't want any -- any youth in the
community to go without if the opportunity is there. I also agree that it ought to be done
on a volunteer or donation basis. We simply don't have this item budgeted and haven't
in the past and more than likely won't in the future. I agree with your policy. I have a
question for Mr. Nary. Do we need to have a resolution to adopt this policy? Can policy
stand in the guiding documents for any individual department? It seems to me we need
someplace for this to reside.
Nary: Mr. President, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I mean normally the
department's policies on operations don't need a Council resolution, but here because
we are talking about how dollars are going to be expended or the authority that you
would wish the director to exercise at the director's discretion on that, it might be wiser
Meridian City Council Special Meeting Workshop
October 21, 2008
Page 24 of 46
to have a resolution that we can bring forward, so that if Mr. Siddoway were to get a
concerned citizen that didn't think he was administering it fairly or that it was somehow
his own -- his own discretion without your approval, we would have some way to show
that. So, because there is a fiscal component we are talking about here, it probably
would be wiser that we bring that back in the form of a resolution, so we could have a
record that that was your direction to him.
Rountree: And that's where I was going. I just needed the official legal stamp of
approval. The other comment I would make, Steve, is that we need to make sure that
the audit trail is good on these funds that we know where it's coming from and we know
who is receiving those, so we don't have any indication of impropriety or the use of the
funds. I believe it needs to be at the department level and if you would work with Mr.
Nary on getting a resolution for us to consider, I think that's the -- that's the guidance I
would suggest. Do we agree with that up here? I don't think we need a motion, but --
Zaremba: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Yes, I do agree with that. Another thought occurred to me that I probably
should have asked. You and I have talked about this before, probably, starting seven or
eight months ago, I think, but I should have asked at that time is the organization that's
providing -- let me ask it a different way. Are the funds coming from a group that is an
organization that might want to put rules to this or --
Siddoway: No. The funds typically come from donations. When people are signing up
for classes, they will often write their check for more than the amount and, then, say to
put the additional toward the Care To Share program. That's often how it -- how we get
the money. The other way is, for example, the parks department won the -- one of the
Dairy Days cow contests and so did finance, we won 100 dollars and that money went
into the Care To Share program. We just put that into there. So, it's just sources like
that that they typically come from.
De Weerd: Mr. President?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: You know, I appreciate all the comments about not wanting to turn children
away, but the funds that we get in the Care To Share program are limited and there is
going to have to be some kind of selection criteria for this. And, again, I will go back to,
you know, the premise that we have maintained this on the Care To Share contributions
and the pennies off of the bills and all of that, but that money doesn't go very far and so
having a statement that we don't want to turn kids away is unrealistic, when the pennies
don't go very far. So, I heard the feedback that it should be the department's call, but I
guess we will always have the challenge that families and children -- I mean you can
have a family walk in that is very needy and want all eight kids to sign up for a program
Meridian City Council Special Meeting Workshop
October 21, 2008
Page 25 of 46
at one hundred percent and wipe out the whole fund. So, there will have to be a lot of
discretion practiced and, unfortunately, choosing how far you want to go in sponsoring
that child or that family, what limits and those kind of things.
Siddoway: And these are the limits that I would propose and I would just manage
based on that. If someone applied who could demonstrate the need and we had funds
available, they would receive assistance.
Rountree: And I would suggest -- and I made one of the comments about not letting the
kids go without, but I don't know how many you tum away. That would be beneficial to
me and it might be beneficial to Mr. Bird, because we might be able to find somebody
who will donate some money to the program. But without that information, as far as I
know, everybody that asks gets something. I'm sure that's not the case, but that's the
basis I have to go from, so if we tum away two, 25, 150, it would make a difference in
how we might approach people and say, you know, we are turning away a bunch of kids
that, you know, for ten bucks or 25 bucks, you would sponsor a couple kids through this
class or whatever.
Siddoway: And I would say this year we had five requests. Four were funded. The
only one that was not funded was the one that requested all summer long, so they didn't
have to do daycare and when -- we did come back and offer to do a week and -- but this
individual didn't take advantage of that. We would have funded aweek -- or I would
have and -- but this individual didn't want their child to be at one place for part of the
summer and another place in the park, so they just found another option. But all the
requests that were for a single class were funded. The balance currently in the fund is
just over 2,300 dollars. So, if -- you know, at the maximum rate, which we don't get
many requests for, that would be about 15, 16 kids, but we typically have more like four
or five requests a year. With the economic times we are going into, we expect we may
see more.
Bird: I think -- Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I -- what Mr. Rountree just said I agree with wholeheartedly. You get short -- I
know if you talk to either one of us, we will figure out somewhere to get -- we will twist
some arms some way. We have done it before and we will continue to do it. And the
sad part of it is -- is I think you're going to see more of it. I have seen alot -- we have
seen a lot more of it in the baseball program this year than we -- in fact, it was the
largest group of scholarships that we had to pick up. We have seen it in the optimist
football this year, too.
Siddoway: Yeah.
Rountree: Thanks, Steve.
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Meridian City Council Special Meeting Workshop
October 21, 2008
Page 26 of 46
Siddoway: Okay. Thank you.
resolution.
Zaremba: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Zaremba.
I will work with Mr. Nary and come back with a
Zaremba: Did you want a motion on that or --
Rountree: I don't think we need a motion. He can work with Bill and they will bring
something for us to consider.
De Weerd: Yeah. I'd like to be able to read it.
Rountree: Yeah. Maybe next week.
De Weerd: This is really small. And I really had my glasses on, too.
E. Request for Gallery Maintenance Fee.
Rountree: Next item is the gallery maintenance fee. Mr. Nary.
Nary: Thank you, Mr. President, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Mr.
Sippoway.
Siddoway: Thank you to the clerk's office for their close attention to detail.
Holman: It wasn't my idea.
Rountree: That's better than Slippoway.
Nary: Sure. Certainly not intended at the first meeting we have in this building was like
mostly me. It was more of a -- it was mostly because of I wanted to cover a number of
different topics. The gallery maintenance fee is, actually, an Arts Commission request
and I can give you a little background. I don't think Robert was at that meeting for that
discussion -- now, why doesn't this come back up? The Arts Commission is going to be
sending out another call for artists and one of the things that is, I guess, common in the
industry for artists is that there is a fee that is charged to the individual to apply for the --
to submit their art. Well, because we are a governmental entity we just can't charge a
fee for anything we wish. What my staff -- Mr. Baird and Mrs. Kane looked is to see
whether or not there is a possibility we could charge a fee and, then, to seek your
direction. We felt, as the legal staff, if the Council's desire is -- the purpose of the fee
was to help maintain the gallery, to be able to replace items as necessary, to maintain it
for future, to use it for the Arts Commission to have some funds to be able to -- be able
to use the gallery as it's intended and that without just always going back for either
donations or for city funding. If you wanted to -- again, as we advertise that, that it
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Meridian City Council Special Meeting Workshop
October 21, 2008
Page 27 of 46
would be for -- that the fee that's attached to these applications was for maintenance of
the gallery, then, we believe that would satisfy the statutory requirements on charging a
fee, because there is no processing cost to us, those are done by volunteers, but if the
fee was directed for that purpose, we believe that would be compliant. Again, that's
your decision if you'd like us to go that way, but that was a request from the Arts
Commission. Questions?
Rountree: Any questions? Bill, you said that this, apparently, is something that's done
commonly for the artists when they go to a gallery or whatever.
Nary: Right. It's a nonrefundable fee and that's what -- and that's what we understand
from the Arts Commission's perspective is that it's not uncommon and from their
research with other commissions, that there is some minimal fee charged just for the
application, just for the ability to be selected. And the other thing that it does -- it does
tend to take -- it does tend to, I guess in their mind, elevate the quality of responses. If
you're going to have to pay -- the minimal fee they are talking about is 35 dollars. But if
you're going to have to pay some fee to be considered, then, it may get more -- I guess
maybe more professionals or people who are a little more serious about it. Now, we
didn't have an issue in the first go around that I was aware of that we had sort of
unprofessional or inappropriate submissions, but I think that's a concern they wanted to
address.
Rountree: Should we somewhere identify what this is to go towards? And also I see in
the proposal if they ask for donations based on selling of art, would that also go to this
upkeep of the gallery or expansion of the gallery fund?
Nary: That was part of the discussion and I think that was one where it -- where Mrs.
Kane was at the meeting. I guess, again, it's fairly common in the industry that when
the artist is selected they would, then, donate a portion of that back from what they get
paid for their art that gets selected. It's sort of -- excuse me. When their art gets sold.
When their art gets sold, that a portion of that would be, then, returned to the gallery
and would go into this same fund. Again, because we are the government, it would be
difficult for us to mandate it, but we certainly would encourage that -- if the Arts
Commission wanted to encourage that, you would put that in the brochures, list the -- I
guess the basis for that and how that's been done in other places. It certainly can be
done.
Rountree: It seems to me that if we at least in the brochure or the literature to the artist,
what this is proposed to do. I mean I would be more inclined to be in favor of it if I was
an artist if I knew it was going to go to the gallery and maybe even ultimately buy a
piece of my work, as opposed to just going to the City Hall or the city coffers, so --
Nary: And that was the intent. It was, basically, to help create a fund for the Arts
Commission to be able to use and that was the intent. It would be advertised as a
gallery fee, the money from this goes to the support of the gallery or the Arts
Commission.
Meridian City Council Special Meeting Workshop
October 21, 2008
Page 28 of 46
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Rountree: Okay.
Nary: And so, yeah, that was the intent was that it would be very clear that it wasn't just
going to go back to general funds -- we likened it to the solid waste funds that we have.
Again, we would create a certain account. That would be what it would be for. And,
then, we would administer it that way.
Rountree: Okay.
De Weerd: Mr. President?
Rountree: Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: I guess I would like to see it defined what -- you know, it could be used for
these uses, not just cart blanche, but what specific uses would qualify under these
funds.
Nary: Okay.
Bird: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Bill, Igot a -- and this isn't really on the fee. You know, not being a great arts
connoisseur, what -- I mean our art gallery is going to be open five days a week from
8:00 to 5:00, am I not right?
Nary: Yes.
Bird: As an artist I would think that you would want to be able to have the public see it
on Saturdays and stuff like that, too, also, because that's when, you know, a lot of us
that work during the week can't always get away during working hours to go see it. So, I
-- while I think we need a maintenance fee or stuff, are we going to be -- in tum give
them the same quality that they would get in some other artist -- in some other gallery?
I do know they pay a fee to work in another -- or to display their works in another -- in a
gallery, but are we going to give them the hours that the public are able to come in and
look and sell and stuff, because that's why they are buying this time in this area is to sell
their works.
Nary: Well, Mr. Bird, Mr. President, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, (certainly -
- (mean that is, I think, part of the call for artists is them understanding -- I mean this is
a government and a public building that has limited hours. It isn't like the Boise Art
Museum. It isn't like a private art gallery that would have that. We don't have -- at this
time we don't have building security to be having the public in this building when most of
the public -- when most of the workers in the building aren't here. So, we don't have the
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Meridian City Council Special Meeting Workshop
October 21, 2008
Page 29 of 46
means to do that. But I mean we are talking about 35 dollars. I mean not -- you now,
not 300 dollars, you know, so it's a fairly small fee in relation to I guess -- and I think that
was the discussion -- again, I wasn't present, but I mean it's a fairly small fee for the
opportunity to have your art displayed in a venue that's going to have hundreds of
people at least a week that would see it, that might not go to a private art gallery and
may not go to the Boise Art Museum or some other place. So, I think that's the trade off
that the commission was looking at.
Bird: And 1 don't disagree with that either. I think that -- I think that they will be glad to
pay a small appearance fee.
Rountree: Any other comments?
Zaremba: Mr. President, I would support the idea of having a fee. Certainly this is not
an enlightened way to look at artwork, but it is product that somebody hopes to sell and
it would cost them something to display it where ever. I might add, along with
Councilman Bird's comment, that there are days when the gallery won't be open, that
also it being on the third floor is in a location where a lot of people could come and go
from the building and never even know the gallery is there and I know this is a directory
sign by the elevator that says there is a gallery, but I wonder if there might be another
way to have an extra sign that says now showing in the galley and maybe list some of
the artists, so that there -- and, then, underneath it it says on the third floor, so that they
get a little extra exposure than just people that come and go from the second floor and
never even know it's there.
Nary: Mr. Zaremba, I mean that's a great idea. I mean I certainly will pass that back to
Mrs. Kane to bring to the commission, because I do think that would make a lot of
sense, that they do want a lot of exposure, I mean that gallery is a real show piece for
the city and I'm sure it's the desire of the Mayor and the Council, as well as the Arts
Commission, that it be seen. So, I think that's a great idea and I certainly will have her
take that back to the commission for their consideration. I can't imagine them not
wanting more advertising out here in the lobby or whatever to make sure people know
there is something there and they can go look at it. I'm sure they would love to do that.
Rountree: Well, I support the maintenance charge. As long as we are helping the Arts
Commission here, I would suggest that in their overview they seem to be selling it
simply as a space to hang art. Given the floor space up there, I would suggest that
there is an opportunity for sculptures and other kinds of -- maybe some kinetic art of
some sort in the open space. So, they have sold themselves a little short there, I
believe.
Nary: Mr. President, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, what I would suggest --
obviously, if they advertise for public hearing, before we prepared the advertisement, we
will define the specific general uses that the hourly fee is going to be for, because we
would include that in the call for artists that would require the fee. We will bring that
back to you to see that, so that we can make sure you're comfortable with what the
Meridian City Council Special Meeting Workshop
October 21, 2008
Page 30 of 46
specified uses are for and, then, we will just keep the process going, so we can get a
fee hearing scheduled and they can get the call to artists put out here. I can't remember
what the timing was, but it was fairly soon, so we will get that moving forward.
Rountree: Do you need a motion to bring that resolution back?
Nary: No, I don't think so. I think we can just go ahead and bring it back to you.
Rountree: Okay. Thank you.
F. Approve new Beer & Wine license for Flatbread Community
oven at 830 N. Main Street.
Nary: Madam Mayor -- or Mr. President, Members of the Council, the next item, F, is
about a beer and wine license. The reason it is on the regular agenda and not your
Consent Agenda is it's a little bit different. The Flatbread Community Oven is hoping to
be able to open for business next Monday. So, before your next Council meeting. They
do not have a certificate of occupancy at this time, but what they were seeking was your
approval of their beer and wine license contingent upon them receiving their certificate
of occupancy. The reason we have to do it in this fashion -- I think you will probably
recall we have had a few of these before, where once we have granted them the
license, we don't have really a means to take it back just because their CO isn't
approved, but the building department isn't comfortable, the clerk's office is not
comfortable in issuing these without a certificate of occupancy, so if -- if it meets your
criteria and your desire, the recommendation would be that you approve it contingent
upon that being signed off on by building and fire prior to them being issued the license.
Rountree: Comments? Questions?
Zaremba: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I believe we have done something like that before, we just asked the clerk to
hold it until they showed proof that they had the signature. We authorized it, but we
didn't hand it to them.
Nary: Correct. Yeah. The approval is contingent, rather than it's just the proof,
because they don't have a means of -- if it's approved tonight, Mrs..Holman doesn't
have any authority under our code without it, but if it's contingently approved, then, it
can't be signed off until then, that's all we need.
Bird: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
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Meridian City Council Special Meeting Workshop
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Page 31 of 46
Bird: I have got a question, Bill, on that -- this license is to this address, am I not right?
Nary: I would assume so.
Bird: I mean isn't that legally -- isn't it to that? So --
Nary: Yeah.
Bird: -- basically, if they don't get a CO, they can't use this license anyway.
Nary: Correct.
Rountree: Correct.
Bird: Okay.
Nary: But we have had situations in the past where people have gotten a license and
their CO was still waiting and never got done.
Bird: Yeah. I know.
Rountree: Further comments? Questions?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: I need a motion.
Zaremba: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I move we approve Item F, the beer and wine license for Flatbread
Community Oven, subject to completion and signature of the certificate of occupancy
and authorize the clerk to hold the license until she sees proof of that occupancy permit.
Bird: Second.
Rountree: It's been moved and seconded. Do I need a roll call or can that be voice?
Nary: Roll call, since you would normally do it like your consent, so roll call.
Rountree: Roll call.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, absent.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
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Meridian City Council Special Meeting Workshop
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Page 32 of 46
Item 6: City Ordinance /Policy Review.
A. Parking Permit Policy.
B. Parking Ordinance.
Rountree: Bill, I think the floor is yours.
Nary: Thank you, Mr. President, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. There is a
number of these on here and you will understand why some of this -- the one that's
actually listed as Item A, parking permit policy, on your packet, it actually is the parking
ordinance revision and it kind of dovetails with the parking permit policy. So, I will talk
about them both together. The parking -- the parking permits, with our new City Hall
opening and all of the employees that are going to be in this location, approximately a
hundred employees, we have parking on site and we have parking over at the former
City Hall site at 33 East Idaho. Because it's also used by other people occasionally for
parking, whether it's other businesses or other people for various reasons, it would
severely limit our employees' ability to park if we didn't have some method to control
that lot. So, we have had in the works for a number of years -- and Lieutenant Overton
is here, can give you the police perspective, the thought that code enforcement would
be the ideal mechanism to enforce parking in city lots or on the street if necessary within
the downtown area as the downtown became more active and changes occurred and
we had to really be more restrictive on parking than we have been today. So, we did
create a parking permit policy that I would like to bring back to you and it's really pretty
straight forward. We have permits for every employee that works in this building. We
don't require permits for cars that are already marked with City of Meridian logos,
because we know it's a city car. We don't require it for emergency vehicles, because
we know it's a city car. We just require it for employees' personal vehicles that they are
going to park and that's our way to discern the people that are going to be allowed to
park at 33 East Idaho or here in the private -- or in the permitted parking area and those
that are not. Then, those that are not would, then, be subject to the ordinance
provisions that we have. So, we do have a parking permit policy. I'm song it didn't
make it into your packets. I will get those to you as quickly as I can. Well, I will get this
to you -- I think I sent you a draft yesterday, so it is fairly straight forward, it just doesn't
allow employees to transfer them to one another, they aren't for sale, they belong to the
city, they can't park motor-homes and big things that don't fit in the parking lot. I think
it's fairly self-explanatory. The other one -- now I pushed the auto manual button, but I
think I have to push a different button. This one's a little more complicated, but we have
talked about it for a long time, so it probably won't seem all that bad, once we look at it a
little closer. We looked at the whole parking code for the city and instead of just simply
addressing the permit parking only, we thought it was more appropriate -- let's see, can
I make this closer? It probably won't make it a whole lot better for you, even as close as
I could make it. But it is on your packet, so it should be there in front of you as well.
Okay. Oh, I see what you're doing. Thank you. Probably harder to see it. One or two.
It's in front of them as well. But, anyway, the parking code -- the parking code revision
captures both the permitted parking -- just a little further back. I'll tell you it is on page --
Meridian City Council Special Meeting Workshop
October 21, 2008
Page 33 of 46
page seven of eleven and there is a new code section that just says parking on city
property where a parking permit is required. If you don't have the permit, it's unlawful,
you could be issued a citation. The other one is things we have talked about for a
couple of years on trying to renovate -- trying to fix some of the parking around town
and the one that's probably the most important or the one that would possibly generate
the most interest is the parking on public property and also parking on public streets.
The parking on public streets -- and, again, Lieutenant Overton has my back, I hope, on
this -- as we have talked about this a number of times, what it would do, basically, it
would prohibit parking for longer than 72 hours on a public street for a vehicle that's
over 12,000 pounds. So, you will not -- you will not -- or excuse me. Yeah. For longer
than 72 hours every vehicle -- it has to be under 12,000 pounds. It would allow amotor-
home or a recreational vehicle to park up to three days. Those are defined in the state
code, so that's -- we felt comfortable with those -- those being parked on the street,
those are your typical motor-home size vehicles. And utility trailers that are attached
and the reason for that is there is another provision later where if it's an ongoing project
we felt it was appropriate to allow that to go for up to three days in one location. Utility
trailers are also defined in the state code. Two hours, though, is utility trailers that are
not attached, because the problem is people with unattached -- will drop those and
leave them for more than three days, sometimes for a very long period of time, and not
move them and one of the concerns is when they are not attached to a vehicle many
times they are not as visible as a vehicle, so their concern is that from a safety
standpoint. The one that will probably be the most interest to folks is that we wouldn't --
by this ordinance our recommendation is it would not allow vehicles over 12,000 pounds
to park on our city streets at anytime. So, anywhere. Right now the issue becomes --
the issue has been problematic -- is there are areas in the city that we have allowed it,
because our ordinance in the past has allowed it in -- or has -- excuse me. Has not
allowed it in residential areas and it puts the police sometimes in a quandary. Some of
the officers who work traffic often are very familiar with residential zones versus
commercial zones, but most -- not all the officers have that knowledge and it's not that
easy to figure out when you have a mixed use area, is it a residential zone or is it a
commercial zone, is it industrial or not. It was the feeling of our group -- and this is,
basically, my staff and the police, that our city streets are not truck stops and that
whether it's in a neighborhood, whether it's even in a commercial area like the area that
is probably used the most that we are familiar with, the area behind Krispy Kreme and
where Food Services of America is, there is a lot of trucks that park back there. There
is a lot of trailers that get left there on the weekends. Right now they don't get in
anybody's way and nobody complains about them, but there is a lot of them out there.
Bird: Have you drove down that road, Bill? If two of you meet, you can't get by.
Nary: Right. Exactly. And that was, really, our feeling was that, really, our city streets
are not for truck parking. There are places to do that and the streets are not those. So,
that was the reason for that. Pull trailers and semi trailers are, again, defined by state
code. A pull trailer is, obviously, that, it's one that, basically, moves like telephone pole
size poles. And, then, also farm or construction equipment. There is exemptions,
again, for construction equipment and for active construction projects. They are allowed
Meridian City Council Special Meeting Workshop
October 21, 2008
Page 34 of 46
to have them there. They have to be within a certain number of feet, they have to be,
basically, in the general vicinity of that. They have to have an active permit and those
types of things. So, that we try to take into account something that was actively
ongoing, versus people just parking it and leaving it. You know, we have had this issue
on Linder with large semi trailers being parked there south of Cherry Lane. We have
had large semis parked south of Cherry Lane on Ten Mile. We have had them parked
north of Cherry Lane on Ten Mile. I mean lots of areas that are large three to five lane
roadways that are not residential streets, but they still are in areas that we really don't
believe semis should be parking and using as a truck stop. We also have, you know,
truck trailers with cars -- car haulers parked in neighborhoods and things like that. So,
this ordinance would prohibit that. They wouldn't be allowed to park at anytime on the
streets. Public parking on public property, other than streets and alleys, was really
trying to address mostly the parks --didn't want people parking their motor-homes in the
parks. Parks are supposed to be closed at night. We didn't want them taking up -- the
law deferment does allow a limited amount of time, but really those are things that
unless there was some exemption for them or some other specific purpose, then, we
really didn't want those parked in the parks for any length of time. The other issue that
probably would be of interest to you -- we looked at the fines. The fines were fairly
antiquated. There were fines of ten dollars, 25 dollars, and four dollars. Our concern
was for four dollars there are probably some people who would just as soon park for
four bucks and not worry about it.
Bird: I'd leave my semi out over the weekend. Yeah.
Nary: For four dollars. Yeah. Exactly. And so the fines we looked at for, essentially,
some of the prohibited parking and parallel or angled parking we were recommending a
15 dollar fine, 25 dollars for parking on the public streets or in the alleys that were
prohibited -- or, excuse me. Thirty-five dollars. And, then, for parking in the permitted
parking it was 50 dollars and for parking in the handicapped spaces it's a hundred
dollars. Again, that's your discretion as to whether you think that's too much or too little.
The hundred dollars is the maximum allowed by the state code and that is specifically
designated for handicap. We are working with the city of Boise to be able to create a
system for our parking tickets that could, then, seamlessly be transferred to the court,
the way the city of Boise has been able to get their tickets. The court likes that better.
They prefer that. We will -- a question -- we brought this to traffic safety today, the
traffic safety commission, for their input. They didn't have any really -- any negative
response, they were fine with it. They thought there probably would be a point that the
Council may have to consider when you have a number of parking tickets you may
recall the city of Boise now has an ordinance that if you have a certain level of amount
that you owe the city for parking tickets, they will tow your vehicle, because the courts
won't suspend driver's licenses for parking tickets. So, that was their means to deal
with scoff laws and so the traffic safety commission's only real comment was is that
there might be a point in time that we may have to consider that, too, so -- questions?
Zaremba: Mr. President?
Meridian City Council Special Meeting Workshop
October 21, 2008
Page 35 of 46
Rountree: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I was going to make a suggestion that you actually answered. I was going to
suggest that the fine should be a dollar per pound, but if the state limits the fine to be a
hundred dollars, then, that changes my question to could we re-ticket a vehicle once a
day and charge them a hundred dollars a day?
Nary: We could and I don't recall -- Lieutenant Overton, we didn't put a provision that
we could ticket them every -- I know we have talked about that type of thing, but I don't
recall that we included that. We certainly can. My experience has been that you
normally would have us -- and the ordinance would say you could re-ticket them every
two hours -- you know, some gap in time. So, you wouldn't just stand there and hand
them tickets, but you could come back if they are still there two hours later, you could
give them another one. Certainly on the streets of Boise they. do.
Overton: President Rountree, Madam Mayor, Members of Council, my experience is if I
let Bill talk long enough he will answer the question and I won't have to. We never
addressed that, actually hanging -- you know, I always hated looking at cars that had
three or four tickets under the windshield on the windshield wiper and we didn't really
address going back and doing that. One of the avenues we discussed in the meetings
we had -- because we have had these meetings over a period of about two years -- is if
we have a parking ticket we might also have an abandoned vehicle and if we are going
to put that many parking tickets on it, there ain't going to be too many and we are going
to tow it away. So, it will take care of itself one way or the other.
Zaremba: Okay. Thank you. And, Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Another comment about the parking permit in the adjoining lot and this would
be about implementation I would think. I would think it would be a nice thing to do to put
some permanent signage that says a parking permit is required and, then, for
enforcement I might have like a three month grace period where we put a note on each
car that says you are parked here without a permit. If you're a city employee, please,
get it. If you're not, please, park elsewhere or something and beginning on X date you
will be fined.
Nary: Madam Mayor -- or Council President Rountree, Council Member Zaremba, that
was the process we talked about. We haven't printed signs yet, because, obviously, we
wanted our direction that we were on the right track. We would have to print signs, we
would have to put notice that a permit is required. The grace period probably might be
three weeks, not three months, because we really think people could figure it out once
that they are not supposed to park there if we tell them, but -- but that was our -- that
was our desire. We would print up very visible signs. We actually -- I don't know that
most people know this, but we have signs there now. Let's say two hour parking strictly
enforced -- which because we don't, most people don't pay any attention to it.
Meridian City Council Special Meeting Workshop
October 21, 2008
Page 36 of 46
Zaremba: And some of the wheel stops are marked reserved parking --
Nary: Right. Exactly. So, we were planning on getting newer signs, fresher signs, so
they would look like a permanent parking only, they would be very visible, have the city
logo on it, language as to when parking was allowed, because we are really talking
about 8:00 to 5:00, you know. Before 8:00 in the morning it's not really an issue, no
one's going to come out there and cite somebody at 7:00 o'clock, as long as they are
not there when they are not supposed to be, no one's going to be there at 6:00 o'clock
to cite them either. And that's not a problem for -- for the use by anybody, but during
the day when a majority of our employees are here, we really do need to have it
available for them, because there won't be anywhere to park and what will happen is
they will just end up parking on the streets and trying to get to the building and having to
move their car and we just don't think that's very logical. So, that was the intent is we
would have all of that in place and start warning folks and I know we are sort of running
right up against building move, but we will just have to deal with it and we will just keep
moving forward if that's your desire. Obviously, we are going to clean up the ordinance,
bring it back in ordinance form, bring it back in front of you, whether you would like it for
one more discussion, so you have more opportunity to review it, or whether you want it
for a first reading and leave it on for a first reading and give you time to review it that
way is your decision.
Rountree: Comment?
Bird: I don't mind bringing it back, but I'd like to see it personally a couple three days
before the Tuesday meeting.
Nary: Sure. You want it for another discussion next week, Councilman Bird? Is that
what you mean?
Bird: A discussion --
Rountree: My position it's drug on long enough, let's get it to a first reading as soon as
we can. I have a couple of comments. Your fines indicate that the fines are for each
violation, so I guess if it's a two hour violation and they are still there two hours from
now, it's another violation. If it's re-ticketed, it's re-ticketed. So, I'm not sure -- I didn't
go through the definitions of how you define violation, but I think that's something that
you might look at before we get it back. And the other thing is you have indicated that
parking of trailers, et cetera, et cetera, on public property, we now have -- and I'm not
supporting of the situation we have with PAL parking trailers in our parks. I think it
creates a liability problem for us and a liability problem for them and I think this takes
care of that. And if they want to seek an exemption, they can come and plead their
case.
Nary: Okay.
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Meridian City Council Special Meeting Workshop
October 21, 2008
Page 37 of 46
Rountree: But it would help I think in some instances. I don't know if they are still doing
it, but -- just give me a yes or no.
Siddoway: They are, but we have asked them to move them from the front and center
location that they had been located back over toward where the dumpster enclosures
are. So, we may -- I will explore that with Mr. Nary before we bring it back.
Rountree: Okay. Other than that, yeah, let's -- thanks for the long hard process and
apparently it's set up to where it can be enforced and that's a good thing. It's worth the
weight, if that's what we are looking for?
Nary: Like I said, our thought was rather than just biting off a little chunk of the permit
piece and still having to deal with the big one, we will just deal with it all, all at once.
Rountree: Great.
C. Prox Card Policy.
Nary: So, we will bring it back -- we will put it back in code format and bring it back to
you for a first reading as soon as we can. We will bring the parking permit policy for
probably next week. The next one that's up on the policy review also is the identification
and prox cards. All of you have them. Some of them work. We are still working
through the process. It's a little more complicated than we all thought it would be. I
think once we figure it all out it will be much easier. I think that's really what everyone's
telling me. But all this requires, again, is employees are required to wear it. We have
had issues occasionally where the public has interacted with city employees and weren't
always sure they were city employees. It doesn't happen very often, so there is a
provision in there that says if a member of the public wants to see it, they can see it, to
make sure that they are -- they are a city employee. It's a little bit confusing, but, really,
it's just to distinguish -- we have ID cards. There are some employees that will only
have an ID card. Those are seasonal employees that don't have access to this building
and don't have any access rights anywhere in this building. All the other employees of
the city permanent and -- permanent, full, or part-time employees have access to this
building, because we have the workout room in this building and it's for all the
employees to be able to use. So, they have limited access outside of 8:00 to 5:00, but
they have access, essentially, to the basement and to the workout room. So, all those
employees have prox cards. We are in the process of printing all of those. We -- in
fact, we used up so much ink we already ordered more ink to get those printed, but we
will have those distributed to the next phase of employees that will be here by next
week and, then, the last group we will print is the folks that aren't residing in this
building, but are in other buildings and, then, they will have theirs shortly thereafter.
Again, it's a fairly straight forward policy. I will bring that forward. I'm sorry that you
didn't have it before yesterday, but, again, it's not -- to me not very complicated, it just
requires employees to wear it. If they lose it, they need to tell us immediately, so we
can tum off the access and provide them with a new one.
Meridian City Council Special Meeting Workshop
October 21, 2008
Page 38 of 46
D. Amendment to Massage Ordinance.
Nary: The massage ordinance. The massage ordinance -- if you recall, a number of
months ago we had a request from -- I think it's Element's Massage and they wanted to
be able to provide massages for minors and so I did speak to Mrs. Pabolis, who was the
one that requested it. I did ask her -- I did tell her the Council's concerns about making
sure parents were involved in that decision that a minor might be receiving a massage
and they had some proof of that. I asked her if that would be a hindrance to her
business to be able to have that and they said currently they have -- they already do
that. They already have that. When they have operated in other cities that's how they
do it. And there are other people in the industry that's fairly common. The only thing
that's probably a tiny bit more onerous is they have to be notarized and the only reason
I told her I thought notarization was probably important is to, again, assure that it really
is the parent that's signing it and all they have to do is just get a notarized consent form
and they could provide that. She didn't think it would that much of a hindrance. I did
send her the ordinance, after we drafted it, and asked her for any other comments and
followed up with her and she didn't have any, so I think it's -- I think it's fine. I think it
meets the concerns that you folks raised and had and if you think it's all right, we will
bring it forward next week for your approval.
Rountree: Comments?
Bird: Bring it forward. I like it, Bill.
Rountree: Let's get it done.
E. Flyer Distribution Ordinance.
Nary: All right. The next one is a -- there was a flyer distribution ordinance request.
We had a gentleman, Mr. Baumgardner, who had written a couple of letters to the
Mayor's office and was concerned that sometimes when he's gone that flyers get left on
your door or advertising flyers get left in your driveway or pizza coupons get hung in
your door handle and it's a real signal to folks you're not there. So, we met with our
code enforcement team that we have and the problem is -- is the enforcement. The
ordinance isn't that difficult. It would be fairly easy to create an ordinance that would
prohibit people from leaving things without invitation on your door, but that also would
apply to people like with the phone book and everything else. I mean there is a lot of
people that would affect. But we thought we could probably craft an ordinance. The
problem we would have is enforcement. It would be very difficult for us to create an
ordinance that would make the person on the flyer be the responsible party. It really
would be the person who left it. And since most of the time the police and code
enforcement felt they wouldn't have any way to really verify who that is, they were very
uncomfortable with us creating an ordinance that it would give people the false sense of
security that they could -- we would do that and we don't have, really, a means to do it.
I haven't gotten back with Mr. Baumgardner. We were going to try to get a hold of him.
Meridian City Council Special Meeting Workshop
October 21, 2008
Page 39 of 46
I don't know if the clerk's office will be able to find him to advise him that we were going
to have this discussion tonight.
Holman: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Mr. Nary, he -- all I had for him was
his physical address, so what I was going to do is follow up with him, give him the
meeting minutes and contact information if he wanted to get back together with us on
this.
Rountree: Okay. I guess my comment, Bill, is it would really create a field day during
this season with campaign literature and who is putting whose literature on whose
vacation doorstep and who is going to get the gears for it. The other thing, I guess, in
correspondence with Mr. Baumgardner is to me that's -- if that's an issue, then, he
ought to be spearheading a neighborhood watch group in his neighborhood and his
neighbors ought to be out watching for those kinds of things and he ought to be letting
that group know I'm going to be out of town and, you know, if you see a newspaper or
whatever on my doorstep, please, remove it. And to me it's a neighborhood concern. I
don't know how we'd ever enforce it.
Nary: Mr. President, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, that was exactly the
discussion the code enforcement folks had was that -- because I had said this is -- this
has gone on forever. People have always left advertising. And that's exactly what their
response was. Most of the time it's a neighbor and they watch your house and people
know that. So, it isn't something, really, they felt that it was really something in
ordinance to really address properly, that really was more of a neighborhood concern.
De Weerd: Mr. President?
Rountree: Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: You raise a great point and maybe it's something that Lieutenant Overton
can work with the crime prevention outreach and Robert can work with the community
liaison or our staff to make sure that kind of notice is put on our website. It's reminded
to our neighborhood watch captains, also provided to our HOA presidents or
coordinators to do that kind of activity, to be the watch for their own neighbors to keep
that literature clean from the vacant homes or those neighbors that are on vacation,
because I do know having gone door to door I didn't leave literature on doors that
looked -- and homes that looked vacant and others that already had literature on there
and it looked old. But I guess if we want to keep our neighborhoods safe, that would be
the preventative measures that we need to take responsibility for as neighbors and so
whatever the city can initiate to get those words out, because it is a sign, you know, I do
agree with Mr. Baumgardner that actions need to be taken, I just don't think it's
necessarily government that needs to take them, it needs to be us that live in the
neighborhoods taking control of our own neighborhoods.
Nary: All right. We will .get back in touch with Mr. Baumgardner and let him know we
have discussed that.
Meridian City Council Special Meeting Workshop
October 21, 2008
Page 40 of 46
F. Engine Idling Ordinance.
Nary: The next you have a -- on your packet you have a memo from Mrs. Kane from
my office. This is regarding engine idling. We were asked to look into that. We have --
if you recall recently you had approved no idling zones in the parks and around this
building and whether or not -- what the next step you would like us to take, whether it's
to create a city ordinance that would prohibit it on city property, whether it's a city
ordinance, other places have actually created city ordinances that prohibit it anywhere
in their city. One city -- or city of Salt Lake had prohibited all of their city vehicles from
excessive idling. So, I think we are really just looking for direction as to what's the next
step you'd like us to take it.
Rountree: Comments?
Bird: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: While I firmly agree with this engine idling ordinance, I have a hard time doing it,
because our police cars, our fire vehicles, our water meter reader vehicle all idle, but I
know we are coming to the point where this emission -- if we were in Canyon county I
wouldn't mind seeing a draft ordinance, Bill. If you and Emily and Ted can come up with
something, that Iwould -- I would be interested in reading it, because I think it is a
necessity, but I do have a hard time making it too limited, you know what I mean?
Because we have to -- our vehicles have to idle, too, and -- but I do know -- I think air
quality -- it is coming to this in this valley and I think if we can deter it a little bit with the
public, it would definitely be a help. So, I would like to see if -- with Charlie and David's
okay, I'd like to see adraft -- some kind of a draft ordinance approval that we could --
that our citizens can live with.
Rountree: Well -- and I would further state that enforcement can live with.
Bird: Yeah. Enforcement.
Rountree: Because I don't know that we can go the ultimate extreme. I think we have
taken the pledge to do something for air quality and this is part of it. So, I think we
ought to couch our ordinance in those terms. I think we ought to maybe be specific to
the -- the no idle zones that we have identified. Maybe through education or
encouragement, try to extend that through the rest of the city. I'd also like to see it
extended to larger vehicles, gross vehicle weights in excess of 12,000 pounds. So, you
don't have reefers parked even on private property, running all night long in hotel
parking lots and I think some of us have experienced that in our travels and those kinds
of things. I guess that's where I'm coming from. But I -- Emily did a great job of finding
examples and I'm not sure that we have enough enforcement staff to try to incorporate
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Meridian City Council Special Meeting Workshop
October 21, 2008
Page 41 of 46
all of that, but just -- some place to start, because it was our intent to try to do
something for air quality as it relates to this.
De Weerd: Mr. President?
Rountree: Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: I guess I -- I'm not for creating something knew and something we have to
enforce. I guess what I would like to suggest is to start with more of a voluntary type of
effort in building awareness and working with DEQ to identify some of those businesses
that have more of a propensity of having idling vehicles outside of them, i.e., daycare,
you know, parents running in to get their -- their kids and -- and having their vehicle
idling the whole time, those kind of things, working on kind of an educational process
where we work in conjunction with their efforts to raise awareness in helping get the
word out to some of these and helping host those business specific meetings to
education and to talk about if we don't do these kind of activities now voluntarily, there is
a huge likelihood that they will be mandated by the federal government to do so through
a nonattainment type of a plan that they are going to have to live with for the next 20
years. So, I would like to see that we start by working to educate and -- instead of
creating a law that is difficult or maybe not, to enforce, but more in working with the
different avenues to kind of the more likely culprits of having idling vehicles and working
on an education and a voluntary process and they will go to the next step. If that makes
sense.
Zaremba: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I certainly think it's a good idea to start with having a policy for our city
vehicles and city employees, therefore. I do feel that at some point we probably will
want a city wide ordinance and I would go the direction of not just making it on city
property, but anywhere within the city limits there are some rules. Now, put to that that
my major work experiences is large vehicles, mostly buses, many of which are diesel
engines and they have a long warm up period, the massive block in them needs to be
warmed up for 15 to 20 minutes before the vehicle operates efficiently, many of those
kind of vehicles have air brakes and those need to build the pressure up. So, if you turn
it off for ten minutes you may be there another 20 minutes trying to get it up to speed
and ready to go again. So, there does need to be sensitivity. I would think that
probably the larger semi tractor-trailer trucks have a similar problem that buses do. One
of the other problems with buses is that for many of them the starter is not robust
enough to start a bus five or six times a day. They start it once in the yard and if they
turn it off a mechanic has to come out and start it again. And I would imagine that there
are trucks in the general fleet that have the same problem. So, again, the stuff that
Emily supplied I kind of scanned through it, I didn't read it word for word and it --
different municipalities are addressing issues and solving different problems, but it's -- I
don't know whether we can come up with a one size fits all, but I do think it's the
Meridian City Council Special Meeting Workshop
October 21, 2008
Page 42 of 46
direction we need to go and I probably suggest that we start at least with a policy for city
vehicles.
De Weerd: Mr. President?
Rountree: Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: I know our directors have had this discussion and the police department has
had discussions among their officers and have been looking at ways to reduce their
idling. There are sometimes that it's not appropriate, nor is it safe that they do. As has
our Fire Department with their fire trucks. I do know that Mr. Bany has talked to some
of his staff about it. I don't know how deep that has gone, but we have had those
discussions and if a policy is appropriate, certainly we can go that route, but I did want
you to know that those efforts and steps have begun and you are seeing certainly
behaviors changed and maybe not all quickly, but certainly building that awareness and
educational process among our own employees. Certainly I do believe that we need to
be the example first and, then, we can start working to recruit others to jump on board. I
would like to see us avoid maybe not the policy internally, but an ordinance until we can
see if voluntary efforts can make a difference.
Rountree: Do we have some kind of consensus here?
Zaremba: Mr. President?
Rountree: Okay.
Zaremba: I think so, but Madam Mayor brings up a point that I -- I forget when it was,
but I had a ride in a police car a little while ago and observed all of the equipment that is
in them. I would suspect that if you tamed one off the battery would be drained within
15 to 20 minutes, probably, and you may never get it started again, unless we equipped
all of our cars with double battery recreational vehicle kind of systems. So,
unfortunately, there are reasons why there need to be some exceptions, just from a
practical nature. But other than that, yes, I have consensus, I think, with what
everybody is saying.
Nary: Yeah. I think for police, you know, one of the ones that was the first thing they
have is the K9 vehicles most of the time do have to be left on, because of the safety of
the animal. I think Chief Anderson was saying with the new ladder truck there was
some requirement sometimes it did have to be idled for a period of time, because many
fire vehicles, of course, as you can imagine, they start from a cold stop, they run to the
fire, they run it for awhile and they tam it off and so sometimes it does build up a lot of
carbon and so they do have to idle those to help maintain the engine, kind of like you
were saying with the other diesels. So, we will work on finishing up that policy and
bringing it back for you to review. And, Madam Mayor, I guess whatever we could do to
work with your office on educating the public on what those idling zones mean in our
different areas of town and, then, putting out other information. I can attest to the day
Meridian City Council Special Meeting Workshop
October 21, 2008
Page 43 of 46
care thing. My wife runs a day care and someone left their car idling in front of our
house and it got stolen. She has never left her car idling again. She locks her car even
when it's not idling. So, it certainly is -- it can be a problem, so I certainly know that.
G. Private Sewage Disposal System Ordinance.
Nary: The next item, Private Sewage Disposal System ordinance, it's actually my
name, but it's really Rick Dees from Public Works and Tom Bany that will talk about this
a little bit. We just put it in an appropriate format and they can explain what the
changes to this ordinance are and why it's necessary that we bring it forward.
Dees: Mr. President, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, he just didn't want to talk
about the unmentionable this late at night. We had an incident, as you know, in July of
this year where we had a privately owned sanitary sewer lift station overflowed, we had
to report it to the EPA. Since, then, we have taken over that lift station and we now
control it and maintain it. We are working with Mr. Barry's office to do the contracts up,
so we will officially own it here very shortly. There are some five other lift stations in the
same -- not the same state, but there are five other lift stations out there that still need
to be attended to and taken care of. One of them, Tremont lift station, have indicated
they want us to maintain theirs and take it over. The others they say, no, we are doing
okay and they are maintaining them properly. So, we checked the ordinance,
Ordinance No. 9-4-32, which is in front of you, it talks. about private sewage disposal
systems, there is no best management practices or any indication of what that means to
maintain a lift station. So, we thought it would be a pretty good idea to put that in the
ordinance, so they had an -- so they knew what to do and what was expected of them to
maintain -- maintain a sanitary sewer lift station and that's what these changes are all
about. It simply adds a clause to require them to follow BMPs if you're going to keep a
lift station. We would encourage them to give us the lift -- not give us the lift station, but
certainly let us maintain it and eventually own it ourselves, but if they are not going to do
that or don't want to do that, then, it would make sense to at least give them some
guidelines and some best management practices for that and that's what those changes
are. I'd be happy to answer any questions.
Bird: I have none.
Zaremba: Mr. President?
Rountree: It looks good to me. Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Mr. President. Is there any kind of a system where there is a licensed
inspector -- I mean like elevators have to have a licensed inspector every once in awhile
and people have a private planter facility like you're talking about, is there a way to have
them certified, inspected, and require that every six months or something?
Dees: Councilman Zaremba, yes, not an inspector, but there is a requirement they
have to be licensed operators.
Meridian City Council Special Meeting Workshop
October 21, 2008
Page 44 of 46
Zaremba: Okay.
Dees: This particular one that failed had a licensed operator. Are there requirements
that they be inspected regularly, no, there is none. Once you have a licensed operator,
then, you run the lift station and, hopefully, you run it correctly without having it overFlow.
It's not like -- we right now in our pretreatment ordinance, for example, have routine
inspections for grease traps. There is no such -- there is no such inspection for a lift
station. But they do have to be a licensed operator, which says you have to operate
and maintain according to the EPA guidelines.
Zaremba: Thank you.
Rountree: I guess our input is let's move forward with it and let's get it scheduled and
heard and get it implemented.
Dees: Thank you.
Nary: Mr. President, I think that's all I have.
Item 7: Executive Session:
A. Executive Session per ISC 67- 2345(1)(c) - to conduct
deliberation concerning labor negotiations or to acquire an interest
in real property, which is not owned by a public agency) & (f) - (to
consider and advise its legal representatives in pending litigation)
Rountree: That concludes that portion of the agenda. Next item is Executive Session.
Before we go into Executive Session, for the directors and Jaycee, now that we are
moving into City Hall and we actually have space for Council, I would ask department
heads and Jaycee if you could -- and I'm not asking you to jump out and do it right now,
but over time build a library in the Council Chambers that would include all pertinent
plans, policies -- we have got them at home, some of them. Some of them are
outdated. I intend to bring mine that I use in and if we could get a library of that up there
for us to refer to and once we have it, hopefully, we can keep it maintained and
updated. But, again, I'm not saying doing it -- do it at your leisure. If you run across
something, put it in a pile and bring some stuff over once a week or whatever, just get it
up there on a bookshelf for us. I would appreciate it and I think the rest of us would use
that.
Bird: My stufFs gone here, so I'm with Charlie on that.
Rountree: We don't need four sets of the same thing. One would be sufficient.
Zaremba: Uh-huh. Mr. President, I very much agree with that. I would just suggest
and perhaps you know this -- there are systems for tracking revisions and it begins with
.
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Meridian City Council Special Meeting Workshop
October 21, 2008 "
Page 45 of 46
every page having either a date time stamp on it or a revision number on it, so that
when a page is removed and a new one is put in, you know that when you pull that
whole binder you have all the most recent pages and not every page has the same date
on it, because they weren't all revised at the same time, but there are systems for doing
that.
Rountree: Anyway, I need a motion to go into Executive Session.
Bird: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we go into the Executive Session as per Idaho State Code 63-2345(1)(c)
and (1)(f).
Zaremba: Second.
Rountree: It's been moved and seconded to go into Executive Session. Roll call vote.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, absent.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
EXECUTIVE SESSION:
Bird: Mr. President?
Rountree: I move we come out of Executive Session.
Zaremba: Second.
Rountree: It's been moved and seconded to come out of Executive Session. All in
favor? Motion passes.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Rountree: Another motion?
Bird: I move we adjoum this special meeting.
Zaremba: Second.
Rountree: Moved and seconded to adjoum. All those in favor? Motion passes.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
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Meridian City Council Special Meeting Workshop
October 21, 2008
Page 46 of 46
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 9:30 P.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
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TAMMY DE WEERD,
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