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Home My WebLink AboutNovember 20, 2008 PZ Mins"t:_ -,r1 ~:~~ ..' ~- :~:, ;-., ,,, :~,;, ~`` <<.. ~~; g ;r~ ~`. =s> .: its Y %t~, i ~, ~} ~. f,~~,: -r,.:r w 4}' ~~, ~ ~Y >~. ~~ ;~. :.:~. .;} ~ ~~ d ~T~! ~;~r Meridian Planning & Zoning November 20, 2008 Page 27 of 48 with the 21 available stalls, that gives you a cushion of five more stalls and I don't see that as being problematic. As far as the hours go, I'm not even going to address that, since it's not within our purview and beyond that I like the project. Canning: Sony. Madam Chair? I did want to mention that all these projects were developed together, these units, so they do have a cross-parking and access agreement amongst them. Newton-Huckabay: Thank you. O'Brien: I have nothing to add. Newton-Huckabay: Commissioner Rohm? Rohm: I'm done. Newton-Huckabay: Someone like to make a motion? Marshall: Madam Chair, after considering all staff, applicant, and public testimony, I move to approve file number CUP 08-030 as presented in the staff report for the hearing date of November 20th, 2008, with no modifications. I further move to direct staff to prepare an appropriate findings document to be considered at the next Planning and Zoning Commission hearing on December 4th, 2008. Rohm: Second. Newton-Huckabay: All those in favor? Opposed? Motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. ONE ABSENT. Newton-Huckabay: Now it's appropriate for us to take a break, so we are going to reconvene at 8:30. (Recess.) Item 11: Public Hearing: CUP 08-029 Request for Conditional Use Permit approval to construct two drive thru establishments in a C-G zoning district within 300 feet of other drive thru establishments for Sonic /Taco Time by Boise Food Service -north of E. Overland Road, east side of S. Millennium Way and south side of E. Cinema Drive: Newton-Huckabay: We will open the public hearing for CUP 08-029 for Sonic and Taco Time and start with the staff report. Parsons: Thank you, Madam Chair, Members of the Commission. Before you tonight is a CUP for two drive-thru restaurants, with another drive-thru facility. Currently ~, ~: tr '- Meridian Planning & Zoning ~ _ November 20, 2008 Page 28 of 48 ^4; surrounding the site you have commercial property zoned C-G. On the west side are ~,. , ~s, : multi-tenant buildings with multiple uses. On the east side you have the same multiple ~s`-, tenant buildings. To the north you have the Cinema, .Harley Davidson dealership, ,~ zoned C-G and, then, again to the south of the site is a Dutch Brothers kiosk, zoned C- G. Here is the aerial of the site. Right now it's a little bit built out more than what you ~~. ~ see here, but that pretty much shows you what's happening in the area. This is the site plan that the applicant has submitted to us. This is a revised site plan based on `~ conditions in the staff report. Try to get this mouse here to try to follow this arrow on a ~~ .; white background. Might be a little difficult. But here is where they are proposing Taco r ' ` Time drive-thru, which is 2,250 square feet and, then, here is the Sonic drive-thru, which is roughly 1,526 square feet. One thing these driveway approaches -- this approach right here is the access --one of the access points into this development and, then, both .r - these access points, the one to the north as well, both these are existing driveways. So, one thing I would point out is this north driveway has to shift approximately 25 feet " to accommodate the applicant's design that you see before you tonight. The other thing ~! J.S: I would point out is when this Dutch Brothers CZC was approved with the staff -- with F , the planning department, there was a requirement along the southern boundary here for ~~~~ ~= cross-access and we have met with the applicant at some pre-applicant meetings and ' we didn't feel that two way cross-access would benefit the site, so we agreed with the ~` applicant to just allow them to have aone-way exit here and, then, go up and use that ~s, access to get out of the Dutch Brother's site. So, these are the changes that we have °` had in place. The other thing that I would want to point out to you, if you can follow my ~_ x~ ~~ mouse here and as I head north, this is the current property line as we speak tonight. `` This portion here is on a separate parcel or not on the two parcels as it is platted today. ~~ ~ - = the applicant would have to submit a what we have conditioned in the staff report So ~' -- > ~ , , property boundary adjustment to staff and have that approved and recorded prior to s : ,;z commencing any building on this site or the other option the applicant has is he can get ' permission from the owner of that property and submit that affidavit with his permission ~. ~' `' to go ahead and do construction on that building until such time as that property ~~ ~~ boundary adjustment is in place. So, I wanted to bring that out to you, too. The other thing is you would notice on this site plan that the applicant has provided some s ~ ` ~ pedestrian connections here. There is some highlighted crosswalks to help facilitate ' ~ k pedestrian movement within the facility. There is signage here. Watch -- caution, ~ ~ pedestrian crossing located throughout the site. and, then, also there is do not enter ~ signs and moving traffic -- excuse me -- do not enter and one way traffic signs on the ~ ' site as well. One thing I did bring out in the staff report and, really, it's up to you tonight, ~}~ ;. = we have an outstanding issue for you, because there really is -- there is a potential to ~'-'`'~' have a traffic movement issue with this site. Basically -- particularly when you have s~ three drive-thrus in a row like you do here. There is a potential to have some ~~~ °. congestion and some traffic jams within this project. So, if you can follow my mouse F<~ ;`: here, here is what I tried to convey in the staff report. Here is one of the main drive _ aisles for this development. We have folks that will try to back out of this facility and you have folks here where you have somewhat of a short stacking lane there. You're at ~ ~x your peak time, these folks could potentially stack up in this drive aisle blocking these ~'° ~ ~ folks from backing out. Then, we have Sonic here with their drive-thru and pickup ~~~ window that would -- that want to leave and get out of their -- from their pickup orders ,~,: ~ti kr, ~ ~., ,~ ~~~ ;. .. ._ Meridian Planning & Zoning November 20, 2008 Page 29 of 48 and possibly getting out here and conflicting with these folks trying to exit out of here and, then, you have possibly Dutch Brothers that could come out here and also want to ~-~'= tum out at this site as well. So, that's what I tried to convey in the staff report to you is this site really appropriate for two drive-thru businesses. Really, we are looking at -- we are acting on two applications, but they are really three drive-thrus within close proximity ~~' ~' ' to one another, so there is a potential for congestion and conflict during peak times. This is the landscape map staff evaluated. The applicant is in substantial compliance. Minor changes I won't discuss those in detail with you tonight, they are in the staff _ report, basically just adding trees. The applicant is in agreement to do that. No issue - from them. Here are the elevations that the applicant is proposing again. The Sonic 3*~ , are similar to the ones that you saw with the Southern Springs that had concrete paneling. The menu boards. Their traditional dark gray, silver canopy with the red and blue color scheme and, then, Taco Time is dressed up a little bit more and has the stucco and stone accent finish. Both restaurants will be featuring outdoor seating areas. The Sonic -- excuse me. The Taco Time has a three foot decorative wall with a ;;~ lattice -- lattice work over top and, then, again, the Sonic, if you remember, it has an arched canopy over the front of the facade, so folks can sit out there and eat. Staff is 4 ~`. recommending approval of the CUP and I would be happy to answer any questions the ~' Commission may have. - Newton-Huckabay: Bill? _ Parsons: Yes. Newton-Huckabay: Doesn't Dutch Brothers have adrive-thru on each side? . , r '~~ Parsons: Madam Chair, that is correct. They have two drive-thrus. ~~`~_~~ Newton-Huckabay: So, we actually have four drive-thrus. Parsons: Technically speaking, yes. ,,;~' Newton-Huckabay: Thank you. Any questions for staff? O'Brien: Not at this time. ,.. Newton-Huckabay: Would the applicant like to come forward, please? Strite: Madam Mayor, Members of the Commission, Billy Ray Strite, 1010 Allante, Boise. I'm here, along with Kevin Knighten, who is the original developer of Destination ~~ ~ Place, and also David Roberts, who represents Boise Food Services as well. First of ', ~r~` all, I'd like to thank staff for the positive staff report and the support for this application ~- . and I think probably, unless you have other questions, I'd like to address the comments relative to internal traffic. Speaking with the applicant, who, incidentally, is the franchisee for both Taco Time and Sonic, I asked him to sit down with the folks at the Dutch Brothers, so that we could determine, in fact, what are the peak hours of all three ;. }~ ~`.~~ 4 <. Meridian Planning 8~ Zoning r~N;' November 20, 2008 Page 30 of 48 Ei'";, ~.~ . of these o erations. As it turns out, the eak hours for Dutch Brothers coffee -- and P p think he told me that it was somewhere in the neighborhood of 60 to 70 percent happens at 6:00 a.m. in the moming until 9:00 a.m. in the moming. Sonic, on the other ;~ hand, three percent of their business is in the moming. Their peak hour is what they refer to as happy hour is 2:00 to 5:00 and also the Taco Time peak hour is between ~~~ "„~° 11:30 and 1:30. So, I think what I'm trying to point out to you is that the peak hours ~:b fluctuate and they vary considerably, especially as it relates to the southerly portion and `~~=- the access to the west. Because by the time Taco Time and the Sonic is operational, _`~~ basically, Dutch Brothers peak hours have been completed. Same thing occurs in the evening as the Taco Time and Sonic go through their sessions. So, I think that was '~ ''~ important to note. Plus also discussing this with our traffic engineer he says that he felt that because of the controls that the staff has put on this, as well as the fact that this is ` an intemal circulation system with short stops and little less opportunity for acceleration, = ~x:~ the signage in itself should be more than sufficient to avoid any intemal conflicts. Now, looking at the drive-thru for the Taco Time, you will note that right now Taco Time -- and U` I can't verify this, because, quite frankly, I don't think I have ever enjoyed a 45 second ~a`` ~~ - wait, but according to Taco Time their average turnover is 45 seconds. Well, if you have asix car stack, you're going to have a pretty difficult time getting people out into the drive aisle. Again, I will suggest I have never been lucky enough -- or maybe I order greater than most people, but having said that, I think with six cars the second and third ~, - car at the bottom of that will have already had orders placed and so I think that the -- ~, r', certainly that's adequate and it is, in fact, greater than the existing Taco Time that we did over here at Central Valley corporate park. So, I think the drive-in numbers are s' .; . { certainly illustrative of the fact that they feel -- and certainly as the -- as the franchisee of L ~e both facilities it would not be to his advantage to have intemal traffic issues. So, having said that, we have looked at the -- the conditions of approval and we find them all to be ~ certainly acceptable. I did -- I thought I had already taken care of 1.2.C, a letter from ~~, ~' - the transportation authority when I had the approval from Ada County Highway District. ~~~ ,, However, if there is another letter that I need to -- need to address we would certainly ~ be happy to do that. I have their approval letter and it should be in your packet as well. ~,:.. ; And I think that's the only issue we have and I guess I would open that up to questions if ~::; ; you should have the same. Newton-Huckabay: I have one question, Mr. Strite. What is the demographic of the --~ ~.. typical Sonic or Taco Time patron? ;~~`~ Strite: Well, I guess you're looking at one. That would be me. You know, I don't know ~f that I -- I don't know that I could tell you that. I never even considered asking the applicant what demographics he's looking for. I mean I -- you know, as a patron myself - and as I think most people that -- that utilize fast food restaurants I think it's fairly varied. You know, I don't see a lot of oun eo le, other than the employees, using them any Y 9p p more than -- than people my age. So, I guess I would be hard pressed to answer that question. ~i a5~~ Newton-Huckabay: Okay. Thank you. f; ri ,,, R K ~3C~ i ~ ~ ~tf `~'"f~ 3 '~ ~y~ ~ ,. , x3 ' ti7o ~ si Meridian Planning 8~ Zoning November 20, 2008 Page 31 of 48 O'Brien: Madam Chair, I have a question. Newton-Huckabay: Commissioner O'Brien. .,` O'Brien: The -- I think maybe after a little bit as far as demographics go, you put two of these very popular places close to each other, Taco Time and the Sonic, is the fact that Mountain View High School is a very, very short distance away and I would anticipate high usage during peak times and I would guess your peak times have changed based on the hours of lunch that these children have after school. So, I anticipate that adding ~-~ to considerable traffic loads, if you will, especially with so many drive-thrus, it's such a i small base. I'm concerned with that. Your take on that? . ~ Strite: Well, again, I think that -- and I guess I would not -- certainly not quarrel with the fact that the peak hour in this particular location may be similar for the two facilities, based on the fact that you do have a high school that's adjacent and, quite frankly, you have a theater as well. The theater, of course, is operating in late hours -- I believe evening hours, so that's probably not an issue. But I think by providing a secondary ~~# access to the north, as well as allowing the Dutch Brothers, which I think is really insignificant in terms of traffic. I think that there is -- there is adequate circulation on this _~,` site dimensionally and certainly I think with -- with the signage that the staff has requested, I, for myself, I don't believe that the traffic is going to become an issue. And, again, I'm quite certain that the applicant feels the same way or he would not be jeopardizing either one of his entities. c: :7. i ,, ,r;< •~~ r, ;:. ,~. r:: ~,'~ ~. ~'~ ~T., "~ Meridian Planning & Zoning November 20, 2008 Page 32 of 48 Newton-Huckabay: There is no one signed up to testify at this hearing. If you would like to, please, come forward. Huse: Hi. I am Casey Huse. My address is 1703 Norcrest Court in Boise. Just thought I would mention something that struck me as I was looking at it. If you flipped the Sonic so that the drive-thru were to the south, you could orient the drive-thru traffic to eliminate some of your traffic conflicts at the west entry point, potentially, and that might -- I don't know if there is enough room on the site to do that or not, but that could help your traffic flow. It would encourage people utilizing the Sonic to exit through the north end there, rather than having to cross traffic that's coming into the Taco Time. Again, the designers -- site designers have to see if there is enough room to still accommodate the parking design or not, if they made that change, but it might eliminate some of the potential traffic congestion. Newton-Huckabay: Good suggestion. Thank you. Would anyone else like to testify? Would the applicant like to rebut? Okay. From the audience the applicant does not want to rebut, since they have moved the design all over the site. Who would like to close the public hearing? Rohm: Madam Chairman? Newton-Huckabay: Commissioner Rohm. Rohm: I move that we close the public hearing on CUP 08-029. O'Brien: Second. Newton-Huckabay: Discussion? Marshall: Did we want to vote to close that or -- Rohm: We need to vote. Newton-Huckabay: Oh, yeah, we do, don't we. All those in favor? Opposed? Motion carves. MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. ONE ABSENT. Newton-Huckabay: Now we can discuss it. O'Brien: Well, Madam Chair, this thing -- my thing is that I think it's a classic case of trying to put too much in too small of space, similar to a fast food establishment that was along Meridian Road that we covered here not too long ago, it was trying to squeeze this particular space in too small of space where there was conflict with cross-traffic and cross-access, et cetera. So, I think this -- this presents the same kind of problem. I think the demographics, like I mentioned, I think is going to be -- especially during the ~J._ }:: xt , ' v r t ~ ,. .~jr t 7r `y ~ r Y` t; '~ ~!~' y i S y ~+ ~ r< ~'~at"t x.,~~, a,~ ` } Arm 5 '`~ ,~'~ ~ ~,F.~..~ ~ ~~' ,~ v +~~ - r ~ ~.a ~A t yT, t ti ~ i' - ~ 1r3.Mw.~ ~i* { ,,, ~ ,~ ~ '~ ~r~ ~ - ,,~~-~~ ~ 'Mipt ~!J~r ,J g .,~' °~' s r +' ~ ~ r ,~1 r^~~ n,,~ ~ a Lf uZ 1 d ~ ++~~ ~ i 1 ~{' + ~ ~n ~ `fir 3li'L~.{ U T tir~~ 3 4 ~~~~ r-t ~, ~~ Jf a r~~,~~e, .. t } ~ ` 1+N ~'~ q. xt#sy +q ,,, ~~f a~ ~iS ... R ~4k Y ~~~~7iy K.h'Ct ! R'~~s F 11 q.~~ [4 S R. .`r}y ~ Meridian Planning & Zoning ``^ ' November 20, 2008 Page 33 of 48 ~~<~ school year, is going to be a lot of high school lunch seekers that's going to try to utilize this -- this establishment, because of the proximity to the school and I think you're going to see a lot of traffic and bottlenecks for kids trying to get out of there very quickly to a'r ~` have their lunch and leave. I just -- I just can't see having both those establishments try `~` ' to squeeze in there. I can see one of them easily do nicely and without any traffic woes, r but two of them with the coffee shop being there right -- being right next to it, I just don't see this working very well. , -~~~° Rohm: I thought Meridian School District had closed campus. They do not? Nary: Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, they have -- I believe it's ninth and tenth graders aren't allowed to leave the campus, but juniors and seniors are. Rohm: Okay. Thank you. Y=~ Newton-Huckabay: Only two to a vehicle, though. "'.~ Marshall: Madam Chair? >° - ~ Newton-Huckabay: Commissioner Marshall. ~~ ~- `! Marshall: I'm really tom here. I do see potential for bottlenecks, but I keep coming back r:; - .,~. ;,, to it's going to happen at the lunch hour and who does it hurt, other than the owner that ~4~`" owns both these establishments. The only cross-access is to the coffee shop that has hours in the morning, they -- all their peak hours are long done before these two have ` any traffic issues. If there are bottlenecks in here, people are going to avoid it. I think ~" " there is potential for it. Will it happen? I don't know. Even if there were bottlenecks "x think we can still get fire and EMS in, because the bottlenecks are so local, people pulling in and out of the stalls and stuff that are going to have the problems. There is no Ai `I cross-access to any other lots, other than the Dutch Brothers. It's the two facilities that ~:~ will be having problems with each other if there is a -- if there is a bottleneck problem. '~~ They are both owned by the same developer and it's in his best interest to make sure there is not and. they are coming in and saying in our opinion it's not. I mean I don't want to see bottlenecks, but at the same time if they were two separate entities I'd have probably a little less patience with it, if that makes any sense. J O'Brien: I don't think it matters who -- if the -- if it's owned by the same person, people are going to choose one or the other when they go there. It's going to be regulated. ~~~` Marshall: That's not what I'm refemng to. I'm referring to the problem of bottlenecks and who does it hurt and the question is who is hurt if there are bottlenecks here. Well, kx -~,: ~ the customers are going to be hurt, which means the businesses are going to be hurt, because they are not going to come back. '- A O'Brien: Yes, I agree with that. ,',. ~'Y Mx-,, S l~(~~ ti ~.~`r :_-, `~~ ~:-1 &C '~ Tr,~~nd ,f~ ~ ~~ri. c ~~~.",r ~ ` 4 y+. I~ ~h y h ~ ~~ 4 ~ ~ >.a t fi4~ ~~r^~+ c X - '~ t i ". r -~~ ~.N 9j1L ~' '~~4.~ ~,' ,~ y[ q,k+t~, ~Y? i ~~dy~ r , M '~ _;~ 7 ~..` ~ ;' '~',,~" E~'"~tL{ rr S X~i a Jr ~~ti; ~ ~ ~ r r ~ ~ ~. ,~ i~ ~~ ~ ~ 1 ,~~ i "- _ rS ~° r r t e+r~ ,r :v y ~...~ 4 ~~ 4 F. v ~``', r rt r: z ~ 1t~cr ~ ~1 ~~~' ~ < ;: ~' ,• ~ t ~ ~ ~'~ ~ ~, ~y ~x ,~ } 4ou } t ~*~~ ,f`,',5'~ g - ,~ t~~ 3 ~ 2^ 7 t ~ ~ ~. q p`t .b fJ~ ~~5~i9~,~Wyfih; fi n t ~~E: tyik`°,y ~,~ ~~F Meridian Planning & Zoning November 20, 2008 Page 34 of 48 Marshall: And in this case it's the same owner, owns both of them, and they are feeling r%,- that they are not going to bottleneck here. There is nobody else cross-accessing this at ~;; a time that is going to be detrimental to them, meaning the new -- I don't know, maybe r.:- there is a lot of people get coffee at noon, but they are saying the Dutch Brothers main ,~~; a : peak hours are 6:00 to 9:00, well over before that lunch rush. F~; ~~-° Newton-Huckabay: Commissioner Rohm? Rohm: As far as the traffic flow, I kind of agree with Commissioner Marshall that the only person that it is going to hurt, if there is congestion, is the applicant themselves and the things that we need to concern ourselves with, in my opinion, are the safety issues, ~nr~T: as far as having access to the property for our fire protection and what have you and <`~ ~ that is not compromised by congestion in the drive-thrus or otherwise. So, from my perspective I think we should move this forward with our blessing. j v Newton-Huckabay: Okay. I, actually -- I wish we had a laser pointer. Are we going to have a solution to that, by the way, a laser pointer solution at some point. T~,~~~ Canning: Maybe. a :~ ~. Newton-Huckabay: Well, Iwill -- I will do my best. I would like to have seen -- I mean, ~ : obviously, Idon't -- don't have expertise here, but maybe one that enters in from South Millennium Way and the traffic flow pushes it out --out onto East Cinema Drive and one that maybe is encouraged to come in on East Cinema Drive and out through South ~' Millennium Way, rather than everyone -everyone accessing and -- predominately on South Millennium Way. The thing that strikes me about this is we are talking about all :r ; the great signage that we have done so that people know where they are going -- well, hr} r y,. _ ~S"' a really well designed parking lot doesn't need a whole bunch of signage to tell people _ where they need to go and where they can't go, it kind of has a natural flow that makes sense and if it doesn't have a natural flow that doesn't make sense, then, you need a lot of signs to get people where you want them to go. So, I have -- I have some concerns -- concerns that way. As I was alluding to earlier -- and Commissioner O'Brien's commented, too, looking at the demographic, you have a high school that has about 2,500 students or some crazy thing that -- I know I have two high school students and r~-~,`.`_,', Sonic is definitely their demographic or they are definitely Sonic's demographic and/or "~ Taco Time and they also, behind the wheel of a car, don't know how to read a sign or go ' the direction they are supposed to go very well often either, so that said I mean it's an excellent place for this. I would like to see you go back to the drawing board and see if there isn't a way that you could get a more natural flow, maybe the Taco drive-thru enters, then, off of East Cinema Drive and the Sonic enters in off South Millennium ~, Way, maybe that would work. I'm not sure - I'd like to see if it could happen. I think x ~,~.§I' this is a great place, but I think it's a little cramped area and I think it's confusing to me. <, ;~~ That would be the end of my comments. :"=` ' Rohm: Well, I'm going to make a motion and we will see where it goes. 4 ,~ s._: r , '- ., ~ ~-ax~,s t-3 Yf`ri ilw'~~;np ~~ .may ~` ~, ~ _ ~~~. r~x~ '. ', N T q~,~,,,~ 1 v~ 'a ""5" F .,~ sttf4. x ~.. . ~.} ' ~ ~,~~ t a ri ~ ~'Z"~'~~~'rrc rte,- ~. ~F ~ ~.~U'. a r r r;. ~Cd ~ _: . ~t.k.- w TF~,3 '' ~~`{ 5 7 ? r 4 ~~ 1}, ~' ~ ~ ~ :a ~ S ~ Fl ~~ ~~~~i+ S ~ r'. ,~ `: 3 ~~~r~} va. ~ / ~ rtY ~* ~~ j 'K F lj R t ~~ ~ !Ka'i'; T'1 ~~. t:, ~` .; Meridian Planning & Zoning November 20, 2008 ;:~r Page 35 of 48 may, Newton-Huckabay: Fair enough. ~;~ ~'; Rohm: Okay. Madam Chairman? Newton-Huckabay: Commissioner Rohm. q Rohm: I move that we approve CUP 08-029 as presented in the staff report -- and I'll z""~ have to wait for the thing to come back. Okay. And I'd further move to direct staff to -~ ~: prepare a findings document to be considered at the next Planning and Zoning ~~ ~~ , Commission hearing on December 4th, 2008. End of motion. Marshall: Second. Newton-Huckabay: All those in favor? Opposed? °~~~` ;n MOTION FAILED: TWO AYES. TWO NAYS. ONE ABSENT. ~, ,- ; Newton-Huckabay: So, motion does not carry. We have a tie. . Rohm: We are tied. I guess we will have to -- oh, so that we can make this thing work, ` can I now make a motion to continue it to the next meeting and, then, all five of us could be here and we will act on it at that time? Is that appropriate, Mr. Nary? `:'k~. ~"'~~~ Nary: Madam Chairman, Members of the Commission, Commissioner Rohm, yeah, I certainly you can do that. I don't know -- I mean as long as Commissioner Rohm is -- ~ ' or, excuse me, Commissioner Moe is able to be prepared. I'm assuming he should be. ~ . ', Rohm: I think that's the appropriate answer. .<~»~:_' Marshall: He hasn't heard any of this, so -- ~: ': Newton-Huckabay: I -- I think maybe we should spend a few more minutes discussing ~~.-' to see if there are some changes we might recommend and could make another motion. O'Brien: I agree with that. f; Marshall: Okay. We can go that direction. =~w~' O'Brien: I agree with Madam Chair, if you will -- I think. I agree with you in that I think ::~ ' the applicant should come back with maybe another diagram, another way to address _ the traffic flow and see how we could come up with some means to avoid peak hours. I think we are going to find it's going to be during the high school's lunch program. I think they are great, two popular spots and it is cramped for space, especially for traffic and I ::} think if they came back with another design that might address those issues, I think we would be better -- at least we could see something in a diagram that would maybe make ~~~ sense and better come up with a -- with a decision. ~' T" t'i: ;-. ir, 4;,1 ~~ ~ ~ kr s'; r-i ~~°. t "~' ;stk. »7 f b ~ T,~. i~~ k ~~`' 3~~~ c~ ~'~ _ _ ~±~ F 't' ~~ t ,y ,Y, "~ ~ '~' t :A~ ~~ y;, nyy~'-$, - rSi. x - ~ ~~-,, ~~~*-~ ~ a ~x ~^ ,~Sp~•; x ~.r t ,~ ~ n - r °', i#~ ~ Zt~F r~r ~~~C~.~. '. ~,• # ~~~ _ '. }[~Cl, }y 4 } +"A'~f ~ ~'' r7 ST , ~~ ~' `~ ~~~ Meridian Planning 8~ Zoning November 20, 2008 _ '; ~ Page 36 of 48 ~'s Newton-Huckabay: Okay. I think we probably want to reopen the public hearing and give the applicant a chance to respond as to whether or not they would like to continue. ~r° Is that appropriate? Is there more discussion to be had before doing that? }- ' ` Rohm: I think as long as the applicant's here that's the best way of doing it, I guess ` their weigh in as to -- ' . Nawtnn-Hi ~rkahav RafnrP I rln that arP thr~rP anv nthPr rnmmPntc7 3~;_Y Rohm: I have none. :f ~ Newton-Huckabay: You have none? Commissioner Marshall? ~ _ Marshall: My simple one hang up on design was simply having the -- the drive-thru on . ; the Sonic crossing traffic to get out. It's crossing oncoming traffic to get out and if you're :~' looking to getting out of there and you're watching oncoming traffic, you see a -- see ~~^ k, traffic go past and, then, they shoot out for it, and the problem is you're going to have ~~~~~ traffic coming from behind them that's going to be the .problem. There is my biggest problem with it. I don't think it's the stacking at the Taco Time or the stacking in front of Sonic, it's the exit at the Sonic is my biggest issue. Newton-Huckabay: Okay. May I have a motion to reopen the public hearing on CUP 08-029? .. ~ Rohm: So moved. r.~ :~ Marshall: Second. s ~~;. ~~ Newton-Huckabay: All those in favor? Opposed? Motion carries. ~: ~ .J;r MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. ONE ABSENT. ~~}±~ Newton-Huckabay: Would the applicant like to come forward and comment on whether ~~~~-4', or not they would be willing to attempt a site redesign and a continuance to do so? And when would be the appropriate time period? How much time will you need? ~'`~. Strite: Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, Bill Ray Strite, once again. I'm not ' ` sure at this point in time what the motion was. I still have yet to figure out what was x, ~`'~ said. Perhaps you can enlighten me and, then, I will make comment. ~~ " Newton-Huckabay: Two of the members of the Commission would like to see a site redesign to improve the traffic flow in the -- through the drive-thru. Two members of the Commission are generally okay with the site design as it is today. 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Meridian Planning & Zoning November 20, 2008 Page 37 of 48 ^ hear it again in its entirety, would we not, if we waited for Commissioner Moe, since he was not here at this hearing? Canning: Madam Chair, if Commissioner Moe reads the full transcripts, then, you could just continue the hearing. You would not have to rehear the item. But if he hasn't, then, you would have to rehear it in his presence. Newton-Huckabay: Okay. Well, I guess the third option is to -- your third option is to continue the public hearing -- or agree to a continuance of the public hearing with -- and make no changes to your site design and wait until the Commission can have a vote with an odd number of members. Suite: Madam Chair, I think there was some conflicting testimony by the Commission and some inaccuracies, so -- and probably would be best if I addressed those at a future hearing. So, perhaps it might be to everybody's advantage that we defer this until a date certain when all five Commissioners are here. That might be the most appropriate approach. Newton-Huckabay: Okay. Everyone is in agreement with that? Okay. I feel pretty strongly that there is not a middle ground here with the four of us. Rohm: I do, too. Newton-Huckabay: Okay. Is this -- this is my December 4th agenda? We have lots of room on December 4th, Mr. Strite, if you would like to return, then. Strite: We'd love to. Newton-Huckabay: Okay. I'd like a motion to continue the public hearing to our regularly scheduled meeting of December 4th, 2008. Rohm: So moved. Marshall: Second. Newton-Huckabay: All those in favor? Opposed? Motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. ONE ABSENT. Strite: Thank you. Item 12: Public Hearing: CPA 08-011 Request to amend the Comprehensive Plan by adding the Design Manual as an addendum for Design Review by Meridian Planning Department: