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HomeMy WebLinkAboutOctober 2, 2008 PZ MinsMeridian Planning & Zoning October 2, 2008 Page 34 of 45 now, but within the next couple of days isn't very typical either. So, apologize for even bringing it up, but I thought I would ask. Moe: You're excused. Thank you. Newton-Huckabay: Can we take five minutes? Moe: What's that? Newton-Huckabay: Can we take five minutes? Moe: We are going to take a ten minute break. (Recess.) Item 10: Public Hearing: CUP 08-024 Request for Conditional Use Permit for outdoor speaker systems for the Meridian High School ball fields in an R-4 zoning district for Meridian High PA System by Joint School District No. 2 - 1900 W. Pine Avenue: Moe: All right. At this time I'd like to open the public hearing for CUP 08-024 for Meridian High School PA system and have staff make their report. Wafters: Thank you, Chairman Moe, Members of the Commission. The Conditional Use Permit before you is for two outdoor speaker systems for the Meridian High School ball fields in an R-4 district within 100 feet of a residential district, per requirement of UDC 11-3A-13. The property is located at 1900 West Pine Avenue, north of Pine, approximately a quarter mile west of Linder Road. This is an aerial of the property. Switch back for a minute here. To the north are single family residences in the Vineyards Subdivision, zoned R-4. To the south is Meridian High School property, zoned C-G and single family residents. The Geile property, zoned RUT in Ada County. To the east is Meridian High School property, zoned R-4. And to the west, again, is the Geile property, zoned RUT. An aerial view of the property. The ball fields are right here and right here, in relation to the residential home right here. A little history on this project. The ball fields were annexed as an R-4 zoning designation in 2006. A Conditional Use Permit was approved with the annexation for ball field lighting adjoining a residential district. A variance was also approved for exposed light bulbs in the light fixtures on the ball fields. This is a copy of the proposed site plan. The locations of the speakers are highlighted in yellow. The red arrows indicate the two speakers that are within 100 feet of the adjacent residence. The proposed hours of operation are from 3:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m. during the baseball season, March through May; during the summer season there will be sporadic games during the weekends used by youth leagues and other community baseball groups. If other affiliations use the fields, they must abide by the same hours of operation as the school does, as stated by the applicant. These are some photos of the existing speakers. They are mounted to the light poles around the field. Written testimony was received from Paul Geile on this Meridian Planning & Zoning October 2, 2008 Page 35 of 45 application. Staff is recommending approval of the Conditional Use Permit request per the conditions of the staff report. Significant conditions of approval are as follows: The existing four speakers, two on each ball field, should be relocated either to the rear or side of the bleachers facing away from the Geile property to enable the volume level on the speakers to be decreased and still meet the purpose. The applicant shall work with Aatronics, the folks who did the sound system, and staff to determine a suitable location and possible shielding for the speakers that meet the intent of this requirement. The applicant shall submit written documentation from Aatronics with the certificate of zoning compliance application that defines what volume level is appropriate for the proposed use and proximity to the residence. An appropriate decibel level should be determined at the shared property boundary of the school and the adjacent Geile residence that serves the purpose for announcements, but does not create excessive disturbance to the neighbors. The determined decibel level shall not be exceeded. Last, the hours of operation for the proposed speaker system shall be limited to the hours between 8:00 a.m. and 10:00 p.m. Staff will stand for any questions the Commission may have at this time. Moe: Sonya, what was the time? Wafters: Chairman Moe, Commissioners, 8:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. Moe: Okay. Thank you. Any questions of staff? Marshall: Yeah. Sonya, in the report somebody at staff went out to the field and looked at new positions with somebody at Aatronics; is that correct? Wafters: Chairman Moe, Commissioners, Commissioner Marshall, myself and Pete Friedman in our office visited the site. Aatronics was not with us, so we just went out to see where everything was adjacent to the residence -- or in relation to the residence. Marshall: And you felt there were some alternate positions that might be better suited? Wafters: I felt there were. Currently, the -- like I said, the speakers are located on the light poles quite a distance up and out and they are positioned towards the residence and the bleachers, so I felt that they may be able to be relocated and the volume level decreased and closer to the target in the stands. Marshall: Which would probably require the construction of a pole or something to hold them? Wafters: Probably. Marshall: Okay. Thank you. Moe: Any other questions of staff? Would the applicant like to come forward, please. Meridian Planning & Zoning October 2, 2008 Page 36 of 45 Kennedy: Good evening, Chairman and Commissioners, last but not least -- I can't even hold it down here. Thank you for hearing our application tonight and I thank staff for working with us on here. My name is -- Moe: Can you give your name and address? Kennedy: Okay. My name is Margie Kennedy; I'm with Hummel Architects, 2785 Bogus Basin Road in Boise, Idaho, and I am representing the Meridian School District and on behalf of the Meridian School District I'd like to address and comment on one of the conditions of approval in Exhibit D that Sonya talked about and it's item 1.1A and it talks about relocating four speakers, so that the sound can be decreased and still meet their purpose. The school district doesn't feel that all four speakers would create a hardship and excessive noise level at the adjacent property line. I know there is a requirement of about speakers less than a hundred, but we do have two speakers that are over the hundred foot limit from the property line and do meet the ordinances. And I must point out that that third light fixture is 95 feet away from the property line, so it's kind of a borderline right now. So, I believe that there is just one speaker that's in question with proximity to our neighbor's property line. In addition, the purpose of the speakers is also to announce to the players on the field and not just the people in the bleachers. With that in mind we'd like to propose to relocate, as Sonya talked about, just one of the speakers that is closest to the west property line or the Geile's house there. The condition talks about mounting the speaker on the bleachers and our only concern here -- and I think you kind of followed up with an additional pole, but we might throw out there, too, that we don't want to put them on the bleachers, because kids will get to them and vandalize them and whatnot. So, we would like to propose to put them on the poles of the nets that are right in front of the bleachers, you know, six feet and put them at a height that brings them a lot further down than those pictures that kind of show them way up on the pole. So, we will bring it down to just above the level of the last height of the bleachers or another option here is that there is a forthcoming concessions building that's 12 feet from the bleachers. In other words, the concession building is -- let me point out to you. And this concessions building was approved in the original CUP. Just due to funding we haven't built it yet, but it's right there and the bleachers are right there. So, we do have an option of mounting speakers on that building, you know, really close and kind of getting down at the level, as opposed to some of those pictures that you saw way up there. So, we feel that this speaker, having the closest proximity to the property line -- you know, we will test different locations and appropriate sound levels for the speaker, working with our neighbors, Mr. Geile, for determining the appropriate sound level for the speaker. It's not the school district's intention to blast the sound system, you know, having respect for Mr. Geile's privacy, but we'd like to have a reasonable announcement system that brings to life a baseball game which includes and informs the spectators, keeping them part of the game, just as much as the players are. So, it's an important element to the ball game and we will work with that one speaker that's probably a little too close to his house there. So, we have no objections to that. So, with that I thank you for your time. Meridian Planning & Zoning October 2, 2008 Page 37 of 45 Moe: Margie, can you take the pointer and just kind of show where the speakers are located on the plan. Kennedy: So, that -- Chairman Moe, this one here is the one that's kind of in question, because it's -- it's real close there. This one here, you know, it's over a hundred feet and so is this one and this is the one that's like 95 feet going across there. So, I'm thinking this is the one that -- if you look back to the pictures, this is the one we are talking about right now and you can see how high it is up in the ground and up in the sky and Mr. Geile's house is down here. So, by taking that and, you know, seeing this pole with the nets on, we could either do that or the concessions building will be built right here and, you know, we can put the speaker on that building and, you know, try to aim it here, opposed to everywhere. Newton-Huckabay: Would that be a hundred feet from the residence or the property line? Kennedy: No, it would not be. Newton-Huckabay: How far would it be? Kennedy: I mean from here to here is probably 70 feet. I mean we are still within the hundred feet, but we would be willing to work, you know, with Mr. Geile as far as a, you know, decibel level at his property line. Marshall: I'm curious, what is this speaker pointed at right now? I mean the camera is pointed at it, right where 1 would be standing if I were here? Kennedy: Well, the bleachers are right here, so the theory is that this was announcing down to these people. Marshall: Is that -- is that speaker pointing away from me, then, is what you're saying? Kennedy: It's kind of pointing right at you right now. Marshall: Right. It kind of looks like it's pointing away from the bleachers. Kennedy: Oh. No, it's really -- that black is pointing to there right now. Marshall: Okay. So, it's pointing away from me. Kennedy: Yeah. I mean it's pointing towards the bleachers. Marshall: Yeah. I see -- is this the same one? Moe: See, that pole is on the other side of the bleachers. Meridian Planning & Zoning October 2, 2008 Page 38 of 45 Kennedy: And these bleaches here are the ones that are to the right. These are different bleachers. Marshall: I've got one eye. No depth perception there. I got it. All right. Okay. So, this really isn't pointing towards the -- the players at all, is it? Kennedy: No, but Ithink -- Marshall: There is another one pointing at the players? Kennedy: No, but I think because of the height, that, you know, the sound -- the intention of the sound is that, you know, it spreads like this, whereas if we took that speaker and moved it down, we felt like this one, the level of the noise -- you know, is addressed to here and, then, this one that's over a hundred feet and if it's kept up higher, you know, it would work enough for the players on the field. So, that I would like to keep this one up high and bring this one down low. And, you know, I have had several conversations with Mr. Geile and I know his biggest concern is the noise level and maybe I'll let him speak himself, maybe not so much as where it's at, but I think to him it's his noise level on his property. Marshall: I want to speak to an audio engineer that can help me. Moe: Any other questions? Okay. Kennedy: Thank you. Moe: Thank you. Paul Geile. T.Geile: May I stand with him? Moe: You sure can. Geile: My name is Paul Geile and my address is 4717 Willow Lane in Boise, Idaho. And I'm here presenting some -- T.Geile: And my name is Tom Geile. I am the one next to the speaker and I live at 2150 West Pine. Geile: He's the owner of the property. One of the -- I guess one of the things that sort of brought this whole issue to .light is I happened to be there one day when Aatronics came out to test this system and I became aware of its potential. It is -- it can be incredibly loud. So, we were -- we were kind of concerned about our own welfare and living in that same house. There is, in fact, just one residence directly to the west of there. But that sits on a 20 acre parcel that's currently in the land use map as high density residential, so there is potentially another 200 doors of people that might be affected by the decision that's made tonight and when I heard what -- how loud this Meridian Planning & Zoning October 2, 2008 Page 39 of 45 thing could be, we started looking immediately for a regulator to project ourselves and our future -- future development potential and what we found was that the high school is, essentially, exempt from -- from noise violation and -- or noise violation complaints and, then, this thing of the CUP came up and we needed to interject any possible limitation that was going to ever happen in this CUP process and the neighbors -- we had a little neighborhood meeting, as imagined -- or is required, but at that meeting there was some discussion of having some limitation of hours, some redesign of the system, so that the spillage wasn't as bad. We asked specifically about design work that had been done to sort of limit the spillage and I got the impression from that meeting that, essentially, since none had been done and that wouldn't be surprising in the event that the school knew already they were exempt for a noise spillage violation. I have a quick question. of clarification here real quick. Several places on the application it mentions an 8:00 -- or 3:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. time limitation and the very last one has an 8:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. Which of those will be in effect? The 3:00 to 10:00. Excuse me. And one has an 8:00 to 10:00. Newton-Huckabay: It's 8:00 to 10:00. Geile: The 8:00 in the morning until -- 8:00 to 10:00 is what's proposed to be passed tonight? Newton-Huckabay: The 3:00 to 10:00 -- the 3:00 to 10:00 would be -- what they are saying -- would be during the school year, that's when it would most likely be used. Geile: Okay. We also have a kind of conceptual agreement that we will negotiate a db limitation and we sure would like to see that before they get a CUP passed, because it seems kind of odd that we are going through a fair amount of regulatory process here that may create something -- essentially a completely unregulated use if -- if they have the right to do whatever they would like with those speakers without anybody's ability to complain. It seemed alittle -- not very defensible for a neighbor. And the last point is the hundred foot rule is probably not as huge a concern to us as -- as how loud the thing is. It has demonstrated its potential to be incredibly loud from however distant it is and we -- if we can get with the applicant to negotiate time of use, which seems to not be an issue, and a db limit at the property line, that would put us -- start us off in the right direction. And on the question of a sound engineer, if these are proposed as separate systems, each producing say a 70 db at the property line, I don't know what that will produce in combination, if they were both in use. And that's the end of my testimony. T.Geile: Well, I'm, basically, in agreement with Paul. The day that they tested the system -- that Aatronics tested the system -- essentially, I'm in agreement with Paul on pretty near all of it. The day that they tested the system I had to ask them to turn it down. I was in my yard and I -- it was unbearable. So, it could be very, very unbearable at our house. Our house from the property line to our garage is approximately, oh, 30 feet. So, we are still within the hundred feet of the speaker at our home, let alone anything else. The hours of operation I don't have any problem with. And as Paul said, the decibel level at the property line, both on the west side and the Meridian Planning & Zoning October 2, 2008 Page 40 of 45 north side of my property, is what we would be concerned about, which is something that I would hope that we could put in this Conditional Use Permit. The speakers as to Margie talked about, moving the speakers off of the pole, I believe would help getting the noise level down to a certain extent. And this one speaker that we were talking about here on the left, it is -- it is almost turned parallel with the -- the fence, the backstop. So, it really isn't pointing too much at our house. A little bit, but not very much. But the other thing that I want to bring up is that this last spring I have had a real good working relationship with Geoff -- Geoff Stands, is he still there -- the principal -- in returning the baseballs that come into my property from the foul balls. I returned approximately 30 balls, including softballs and baseballs, from the baseball and softball diamond in the back. I asked him not to have the kids climb over and we worked out a very nice agreement to get that done and I'd like to continue those kinds of things with the school. So, I'm hoping that we can work something out with a decibel level at the property line and we'd work from there. And I think that covers it. Thank you. Moe: Thank you very much. Moe: Gil. Maclennan: Gil Maclennan. I live at 1210 North Rutledge, which is on the -- would be the northwest corner of the baseball field. It would be right up in the corner up there. Let's see. Right there. That's our property right there. Basically, the PA system works really good. This summer the hours of operations we don't have an objection to, but the db level. The other night they had things going on and Iwent -- I wish I had a db level thing, because it was deafening. During the weekends on -- in the -- when they rent the baseball fields out, the other teams we had -- it was so deafening up at the softball field, which is the closest one to our house, they had one set of music going on and the maintenance guys were out there running their machinery and they had it loud enough so they didn't have to have ear phones on. I came back around, because we were trying to get them to turn it down and I went by the Geiles down by the other baseball diamond and they had theirs on a different system and it was deafening. I mean literally deafening. When they have -- it's -- the PA system itself, they don't -- the voice is great. What the complaint is is -- now, I'm a musician, so I'm not objecting to music, but the decibel point of the music -- and some of the music that they play on that thing is just -- you wouldn't have it in your own home. And as loud as they run those things, we have it in our open home. We have gone inside, closed the doors, and it's just boom, boom, boom, boom. So, there is an issue of regulating the sound volume on it. I have no problem at all with them using it at the baseball -- you never hear them when they are calling a game, but you definitely hear them when they crank the radio up. And they do crank it up. And that's about all I have to say, is that there needs to be some control on the sound level of what's going on and I know the high school is not always under control of it, because they lease that thing out, but I mean it is -- it's loud. Very loud. They work great. But you don't hear the game being called. What you hear is the music going on. Thank you. Newton-Huckabay: Thank you. Meridian Planning & Zoning October 2, 2008 Page 41 of 45 Moe: Thank you. There is no one else, so would the applicant -- oh. Please come forward. Stewart: Chairman and Commissioners, my name is Scott Stewart, I'm the district administrator, representing the Meridian School District, at 1303 East Central Drive here in Meridian and I agree with a lot that has been shared tonight regarding the fields and everything. If we could go to the picture of the -- of the speakers and this particular speaker is of concern, because Mr. Geile's home is right here and that flow goes right out there and -- and I'm not much concerned about, as we have heard, the location, as much as the decibel level and that is something that -- whether we need to have the company come out and work with us in turning that speaker, so we don't have as much flow over the shared property line or whatever it takes, I'd like to be able to get to the point where we could, myself personally, go out there and work with them on an acceptable level, so that it meets our purpose to announce the game and to serve as a public address system, but at the same time we are good neighbors as a school district and we have been there awhile and plan on staying there and so that's what I'd like to share tonight. Moe: Well, I have a question for you, just -- maybe I'm just out of it here, but public address, calling a game, who's doing the music? Stewart: Commissioner, the spirit of baseball and baseball games, a lot of times between innings as a batter comes up, a lot of times they will have a little blurp of music, that can be regulated. Also, the field maintenance that occurs are the kids. We don't have a number of maintenance people out there working, the kids work it, when they are working after a game or something, they turn music on for entertainment. Now, I think we probably all could agree that the choice of their music would not be our choice, but at the same time the decibel level would be the concern. I'd like to be able to work with our vendor Aatronics to get some sort of a mechanism where we have control where there is a limit to the volume that can be done on that -- those systems, so that even if they were to crank it, it would crank well less than that, but that was -- Moe: That's my concern, you have got two neighbors here and they are off the sides of the field and they are both having -- they are both here with the same complaint. Stewart: And those are two different systems. Correct. And that's what we would like to address as well. Any further questions? Moe: Thank you. Well, everyone in the audience has spoke, other than the applicant now may come back up and address the issues that have been brought. Kennedy: Chairman, Commissioners, Margie Kennedy again. I just want to comment that when the system was new and first brought out, my guess is that it probably was abused a little bit, kids get their new toys- and they crank them up too high and I don't believe that there is probably been a policy with the district as far as how loud it can be Meridian Planning & Zoning October 2, 2008 Page 42 of 45 yet and so we are kind of working our way through this, kind of seeing what the Commissioners and staff would do and, then, we are going to need set up policies for the students who will be supervised by faculty members. So, I think what they heard was a new toy and it will be brought down and we will try and limit it to the games and try not do so much maintenance and an ongoing thing, because the idea is that it is for the baseball games. Moe: Is there the possibility that the school district and neighbors and Aatronics can all get together and review the decibels at the property line to see how we can regulate the whole system to make sure it doesn't go -- Kennedy: I have got control of one myself personally, so I have one to go out there just to see what the sound level is, even with the one high up in the air, just, you know, out of curiosity to see how it is and after speaking with Aatronics, they did tell me that the system they have is controllable and can set limits on it, so knowing that I can do that, I think that we should be able to come to an agreement. Moe: My concern is putting the one speaker on the pole of the backstop and getting it down low enough to be below the top of the bleachers and, then, it was probably going to be in site of someone watching the ball game and they are not going to want that either, so putting it on the concession stand is probably a better idea there. Marshall: Again, I don't care if they don't move them. The issue, I think, is not to hit a decibel level that doesn't bother neighbors and I think the whole idea behind moving them, the suggestions of where they go, things like that, were simply ideas on how to control that and if Aatronics can come in and control one of the speakers over the other, I guess through balance -- you know, just stereo; right? They can just change the balance and push it more towards one than the other. I don't know -- or maybe they have some other means of doing that, but whatever it is, if they can control it to everybody's satisfaction, I think that's the issue. Moe: Any other questions of the applicant? Newton-Huckabay: I don't have any questions of the applicant. I would just say that someone who works in the sound industry for my paid job, I'm pretty confident that Aatronics has a lot of things in their tool box to fix this issue and they have db, they have hertz, they have frequency, they have lots of things that -- at their disposal that they can use to make this system I'm most certain more palatable in putting db levels at -- so, I'm comfortable there. I guess my question is more procedural in how do we proceed forward on this with the unknown of how it's going to be resolved? We can't really issue a Conditional Use Permit with a bunch of open-ended solutions or potential solutions, I don't think. Moe: Well., we can -- I would anticipate we could probably just continue this hearing until said time that Aatronics has been out to the site and they have made some changes and we can get verification of those changes. Meridian Planning & Zoning October 2, 2008 Page 43 of 45 Newton-Huckabay: Have we ever continued a CUP before? Moe: No, but we can probably get some instruction from the gentleman down at the end of the table here. Mr. Nary. Nary: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, no different than any of your other hearings. You can continue it for that specific evidence and, then, obviously, offer the ability to come and testify about that new evidence. I would agree with Commissioner Newton-Huckabay that without knowing specifically where these would be located or how that would be impacting to the neighbors, you really couldn't go forward without that. So, I don't know if -- it seems like two weeks might be a little rapid to get that information, but you certainly can continue it, that's not a problem. I don't imagine they are using it much right at the moment anyway, so -- Newton-Huckabay: I was going to say, I think that we are not in the midst of high school baseball season. Nary: Right. Moe: Any other comments? Newton-Huckabay: I think I have said quite enough for one day. Moe: Before the applicant left so quickly here -- I guess I want to get -- get an opinion. Would you have a problem, you know, with some time limit as far as getting Aatronics and you folks together to see what can be done and get the sound levels down to a point where neighbors might be okay with the system? Kennedy: Uh-huh. Chairman Moe, I think that -- you know, that November 20th hearing date, I think that would be something we could shoot for. Moe: Excellent. Perfect. Thank you very much. Kennedy: All right. Thank you. Moe: It had to be on the record. That's why you had to come back up, so -- Marshall: Should we leave the public testimony open? Newton-Huckabay: I believe so. Moe: Yes. I believe so. So, having said that -- Marshall: After considering all staff, applicant, and public testimony, I move to continue file number CUP 08-024 to the hearing date of November 20th, to provide time for the Meridian Planning & Zoning October 2, 2008 Page 44 of 45 school district and the neighbors to get together and get a hold of Aatronics and come to some type of mutual understanding as to the decibel level that would be acceptable to everyone involved. Newton-Huckabay: Second. Moe: Yes, Mr. Nary. Nary: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, if Commissioner Marshall would consider for his motion that it be a sound engineer, in case Aatronics, for some reason, isn't available, they could still use a sound engineer, rather than one specific business is -- Marshall: Any sound engineer. Nary: Okay. Newton-Huckabay: Second. Moe: It's been moved and seconded to continue CUP 08-024 to the regularly scheduled Planning and Zoning meeting of November 20th for the purposes as noted. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? That motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. ONE ABSENT. Hood: Mr. Chair, before your last motion, if I can ask one more clarification question. You make it a motion, said all parties involved, I assume you're referring to the two -- three parties this evening that testified, not necessarily everyone that mayor may not be within 300 feet. Marshall: That was correct. Hood: Okay. Just wanted to make sure. Moe: Okay. Now, you can make that motion. Newton-Huckabay: I move we adjourn. Marshall: Second. Moe: It's been moved and seconded to adjourn. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? That motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. ONE ABSENT. MEETING ADJOURNED AT 9:17 P.M.