HomeMy WebLinkAbout2008 09-23Meridian Citv Council Meeting September 23, 2008
A meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 7:00 p.m., Tuesday,
September 23, 2008, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd, Keith Bird, Charlie Rountree, Brad
Hoaglun, and David Zaremba.
Others Present: Ted Baird, Jaycee Holman, Anna Canning, Bill Parsons, Sonya
Wafters, Matt Ellsworth, Kyle Radek, Ron Anderson, Jeff Lavey, and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
X David Zaremba X Brad Hoaglun
X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
De Weerd: Okay. I will go ahead and call tonight's meeting to order. We'd like to
welcome all here with us tonight and thank you for joining us. We will start tonight's
meeting with roll call attendance. Madam Clerk.
Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance:
De Weerd: Item two is our Pledge of Allegiance. If you will all rise and join us in the
pledge.
(Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
Item 3: Community Invocation by Worth Wheeler with Ten Mile Christian
Church:
De Weerd: Okay. Tonight we will be led in our community invocation by Worth. He's
with Ten Mile Christian Church. If you will all join us in common invocation or take this
as an opportunity for a moment of reflection.
Wheeler: Would you bow with me. Heavenly father, we just thank you for this evening,
take this opportunity to thank you also for the privilege of living in our great City of
Meridian and I'd like to pray, Father, that you would bless our Mayor, City Council
Members, and the other officials of our city government who strive to make this a great
place to live. Father, just ask your blessing upon them in their deliberations this
evening, in Jesus' name I pray, amen.
De Weerd: Hey, Worth, I know this is the first time here. I would like to offer you a city
of Meridian pin for joining us. Thank you.
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September 23, 2008
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Item 4: Adoption of the Agenda:
De Weerd: Okay. Item 4 is adoption of the agenda.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I will make some comments about a few of the items. Under the Consent
Agenda, Item 5-G, there has been a request to continue that to October 7th. Item 5-P,
the proposed resolution number 08-619 for the no smoking policy. Items 5-Q and 5-R,
there has been a request to withdraw those by the Public Works director. On the
regular agenda, Item 12 dealing with Una Mas, the applicant has requested to continue
that until October 28th. Item 15 and 16, Eagle and Victory, there has been a request to
continue those until October 28th. Item 18, Volterra Commercial, the applicant has
requested to continue those to November 5th. Item 25, Postal Annex, the applicant has
requested to withdraw that entirely. Item 26, 27 and 28 are ordinances. The proposed
ordinance numbers are 08-1381 for the Dogs Off Leash Ordinance. 08-1382 for the
Alter Property. And 08-1383 for Stake House. And with those amendments I move that
we accept the agenda as amended.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda as amended. All
those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 5: Consent Agenda:
A. Approve Minutes of July 7, 2008 City Council Special Joint
Meeting:
B. Approve Minutes of August 12, 2008 City Council Regular
Meeting:
C. Approve Minutes of August 19, 2008 City Council Regular
Meeting:
D. Approve Minutes of August 26, 2008 City Council Special Meeting:
E. Approve Minutes of August 26, 2008 City Council Regular
Meeting:
F. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: VAR
08-007 Request for a Variance to UDC 11-3H-4B.2.a, which
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prohibits new approaches directly accessing a state highway, to
allow aright-in only access to the site from SH 55/Eagle Road for
Jacksons Food Store #105 by Jacksons Food Stores, Inc. - 3291
East Pine Avenue:
H. Development Agreement: AZ 07-019 Request for Annexation
and Zoning of 15.49 acres from RUT to L-O zone for Stake House
by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints - 5555 North
Locust Grove Road:
I. First Amendment to Development Agreement: MDA 08-001
Request for a Development Agreement amendment to include a
church and other specified uses designated by the UDC as
permitted or conditional in the L-O zoning district for Paramount
Subdivision by Paramount Development, Inc. -west of N.
Meridian Road and north W. McMillan Road:
J. Amendment to Task Order No. 0766 with Parametrix for Sewer
Improvements for Franklin -Ten Mile to Linder Project for
$41,900.00:
K. Approve Response to ACHD Regarding East 3rd Street:
L. Approve Response to Draft Traffic Study Report
Recommendations for Split Corridor Phase 2:
M. Task Order No. 0778 with DC Engineers for Whitestone Lift
Station Upgrades for $9,550.00:
N. Irrigation System Connection Agreement with Settler's
Irrigation District for 1100 North Hickory Avenue:
O. Change Order No. 1 for Class A Reclaimed Wastewater
Disinfection Sz Distribution Improvements with Star
Construction, LLC for $7,572.41:
P. Resolution No.: No Smoking Policy:
S. Professional Services Agreement with J. Amber Conger for
City Hall Public Art Proposal:
T. Professional Services Agreement with Francis Fox for City Hall
Public Art Proposal:
U. Change Order No. 4 with K2 Construction for the Water
Division Phase 2 Project for $581.69:
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V. Art in Public Spaces Purchasing Agreement -Brook Blues by
Joyce Green:
W. Art in Public Spaces Purchasing
De Weerd: Item 5 is our Consent Agenda.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor'?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: As previously commented, Item 5-G has been requested not to be dealt with
tonight, but moved to October 7th. Item P is resolution 08-619. Item 5-Q and R are
withdrawn. With that I move we accepted the Consent Agenda and for the Mayor to
sign and the Clerk to attest.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda as
changed. If there is no discussion, Madam Clerk, roll call.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Hoaglun: Quick comment for the record. If the record could reflect my abstaining on
the minutes, since I was not there and not participating in that -- those discussions, I
have no way to ascertain whether they are true or not, but the other items I have read
the minutes and gone through the -- all the records and feel comfort voting on that.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. So noted in the record.
Item 6: Department Reports:
A. Planning Department:
1. Transportation Project Request List:
De Weerd: Okay. Item 6 is our Department Reports. We will start with the Planning
Department.
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Ellsworth: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. This item is a follow-up
from last week, if you will recall, which was the city prioritization of transportation
projects, which we will forward along to ACHD for their use in updating this year's five
year work plan. I did what I could to translate my scribblings into a revised list, which is
before you on the screen up here. And this is really a sort of ground check to make
sure that I was able to accurately pick up on the suggestions that Council had prior to,
like I said, finalizing the list before we send it off to the highway district. So, again, here
is sort of the compiled list with ACHD roadways, ACRD intersections, ITD projects.
Scrolling down here we have just the roadways and, then, the next two slides here are
the intersections, as well as the ITD state projects. But the request before you this
evening is that you, please, review the lists that are in front of you here, if there is any
additional changes that I missed or if you would like to see at this time, if you could let
me know, then, I will go ahead and clean up a final request list. The timeline that ACHD
is looking at on receiving these from the city is to have these finalized lists in by
September 30th. So, pending Council approval, what I would propose doing is cleaning
up the list per Council's direction this evening and forwarding that to ACHD staff as an
informal submittal, with the understanding that Council will not meet on the fifth Tuesday
this month, but to have the full list, along with a letter to go to Council for a Consent
Agenda item the following week, if that seems reasonable. With that I would request
any input you have on the list that's before you here, starting with the roadways.
De Weerd: Council?
Rountree: Madam Mayor. I think you did a good job with your scribbles.
Ellsworth: Thank you.
Bird: You know, I forgot mine. I'd have to go over yours.
Rountree: I concur in the list.
Ellsworth: Madam Mayor, if it's okay, then, we can move onto the ACHD intersection
priorities and the same question before you.
De Weerd: I think that looks good, Matt.
Ellsworth: Madam Mayor, then, finally, the joint list there.
De Weerd: Council, any comment?
Bird: Looks okay to me.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, my only comment on the list is I think number 19 is
something that's -- we all dream about. It seems to me the rest of the items up there
are things that actually might happen at some point in time in the future. I would say
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that's probably a local funded activity and it -- though it needs some priority, I don't think
it's going to happen before the roadways are improved.
De Weerd: So, do you have a suggestion?
Rountree: I would suggest that that would be number 30. That's the rail comdor
preservation.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Zaremba: I would agree with Councilman Rountree that it shouldn't disappear entirely,
but many of the projects probably have a higher likelihood of happening sooner if we
rate them as priorities.
De Weerd: Okay.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Zaremba: I don't know if this is the right time to bring it up, but since the split corridor is
one of our high priorities, I have been alerted by one of the ACHD commissioners that
there may be a discussion at their commission meeting tomorrow night, somebody
objecting to the split corridor and I'm wondering -- I'm not able to make it to their
meeting, but I'm wondering if we should have a presence to explain what the process
was that got us to this point.
De Weerd: I believe Matt will be there, won't you, Matt?
Ellsworth: Madam Mayor, I was planning to attend.
De Weerd: Can any of the Council members been there?
Bird: I don't think you want me.
Rountree: You don't want Mr. Bird. I will look at my schedule and see if I can get there.
I think one of us needs to be there.
Zaremba: The point I would raise is how public the process was and all that both ACHD
and the city have put into the decisions that were considered.
Ellsworth: And, Madam Mayor, the last contact that I had with the project manager for
the split corridor, he indicated that as of late last week that item had not made it onto
ACHD's agenda. However, he was informed by the person who pulled the petition
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together that -- that individual that was going to be in touch with ACHD's commission
and there is a -- the formal hand off, basically, was going to occur at tomorrow night's
meeting. So, if Councilman Zaremba has spoke to somebody since last week, then, I'm
sure your information is more up to speed than mine.
De Weerd: And interesting to the public process, he's been meeting individually with
the commission members.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I'll get back to you in the morning on my schedule and see if I
can get it in there. If so, I will work with Matt on the -- some form of testimony, if it need
be. I don't have any idea what the forum is going to be.
De Weerd: Robert, perhaps you can call ACRD and verify -- find out what the format is
and maybe work with Matt and put together a chronological timeline or something on
the process that we followed. The various agencies that all chose this particular option
as the best choice and just put together some talking points for Councilman Rountree.
Okay. Anything further on the transportation list from Council? Any further information
you need, Matt?
Ellsworth: Madam Mayor, like I said, if this seems reasonable to you and to the Council,
what I would like to do is go ahead and forward this list over to ACRD as the informal
submittal in order to fall within their timeline and I will draft a letter to go along with the
list as a more formal submittal and that will be a Consent Agenda at your next meeting.
De Weerd: Okay. Sounds good.
Ellsworth: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Zaremba: Thank you.
B. Mayor's Office
1. Art in Public Spaces Selection Committee
Recommendation on Art for City Hall:
De Weerd: Okay. Item 6-B is our Art in the Public Places. Is David here?
Canning: No, ma'am. I am.
De Weerd: Oh, you're David tonight, uh?
Canning: Yeah. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is an update on the Art in
the Public Spaces. David could not be here tonight and asked me to fill in for him.
was a member of the committee. As you will remember, David presented three artwork
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purchases to you and those were approved last week by City Council. They were Brook
Blues by Joyce Green. Meridian Creamery No. 5, by Charles Hoffman. And Lost
Generation by Sherri Carter, which was an oil painting. Sherri Carter sold the painting
and it's no longer available. She sold it at Art in the Park. I didn't know that fancy
animation was in there. That's pretty fun. Emily did this. So, there are two additional
artwork pieces that the committee wanted you to consider for purchase. In looking at
their revenues, they felt they could purchase two, not just one additional, so they are
asking for approval of these two pieces. One is Summer's Eve. Although we had
discussion about perhaps changing the name of the piece, but the artist's description I
can't bring up right now. This is a depiction of a local Meridian area. He is a Meridian
artist. I can go find the notes, but it will take me a second. I apologize. And, then, the
second is Dwight Williams piece, a water color, called Old East Meridian. And if you
wait just a moment, I can give you the background on those pieces. Okay. Mr. Russell
submitted the following statement to describe this piece. Summer's Eve is a 30-by-40
inch oil painting depicting a local Meridian farm at sunset. The piece is painted in
tonalist tradition, set forth by the tonalist movement of the 1880s. The warm hue of
Summer's Eve provides warmth to the viewer and, again, brings familiarity to a seen so
common in the Meridian community. A row of Cottonwood trees stand silhouetted
against the golden hues of summer sunset. And, then, for Old East Meridian, Mr.
Williams submitted the following statement to describe Old East Meridian. This bam,
now gone, was on the north of the railroad tracks below Franklin Road between Eagle
and Cloverdale Roads. The painting, done recently, was from a rather old black and
white photo. This painting was done only recently in the summer of 2008. So, with that
I think the committee would ask for your approval to purchase those last two pieces and
with authorization for the Mayor to sign purchase agreements with the selected artists
prior to September 30th and, then, the executed purchase agreements will be placed on
the October 7th Consent Agenda for Council ratification. And with that I'll answer any
other questions you may have.
De Weerd: Mr. Baird, would the purchase agreements being signed before September
30th meet the obligation under this current budget year?
Baird: Madam Mayor, that's correct. Our office specifically recommended this motion, if
that's your desire, to move forward on that basis.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any comments?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I'm certainly not an artist, but I like the last two additions even better than the
previous group and I think as a group of five they represent different styles, different
mediums, it's a good representation of taking all five together. I assume they will be
hung near each other. I think it's a good selection. I see Councilman Bird shaking his
head. Maybe they are not going to be hung near each other.
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Bird: We are only getting four.
Zaremba: Oh, you're right. Yeah.
Bird: The third one has already been sold.
Zaremba: Yeah. But, anyhow, the four of them are a good representation of different
styles and mediums and that's fine by me.
De Weerd: Thank you. Anna, the only comment I would ask that you bring back to the
art selection committee is perhaps giving us -- if you're asking for three, give us five to
choose from.
Canning: Okay.
De Weerd: If -- and I'm not suggesting that anyone here does not like one or all, but it
certainly gives a little more flexibility to Council to choose their most favorite.
Canning: Yeah. And, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I don't think the
committee understood that as a -- as something that Council wanted, an option to
choose which ones they preferred, so I will pass that along to the committee for next
time.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: As I understand, we are, basically, just approving the two additional
recommendations. We have already recommended -- we have already accepted the
three and one we could not get, so --
De Weerd: That's correct.
Bird: -- if there is no more discussion, I move that we approve the two additional artists
and for the Mayor to sign a purchase agreement with the artists prior to September 30th
and for the clerk to attest.
Hoaglun: I second that.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second. Any discussion?
Rountree: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Madam Clerk, roll call.
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Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
C. Legal Department
1. Detox Center Agreement:
De Weerd: Okay. Under 6-C we have our legal department report. We will start with
the detox center agreement.
Baird: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. In your packet tonight is an
agreement establishing a joint powers entity to operate -- to establish and operate the
long awaited detox center in Ada County to serve the Treasure Valley. The reason it's
on a department report is there is a couple of items in there we just wanted to point out
to you. They are not necessarily good or bad, but we just wanted to have a moment to
point these out before you consider the agreement for approval. It's my understanding
that the entities involved are looking to have this finalized by the end of September, so if
it's your desire, we would be looking for a motion this evening. Just very briefly, the
items I wanted to point out -- the first year financial commitment to the City of Meridian
is based on population. One dollar per person for 52,000 dollars. And that's just for
operations for the first year. Beyond the first year the agreement is not clear as to what
your obligations will be. However, there are ways for you to withdraw if you don't like it.
What it does -- what concerns me is that in order to establish the budget for the second
year they sort of look at how things go on the first year and the operating committee will
establish this through bylaws. So, you don't know what is going to be in there when you
sign this agreement and once you're part of that entity, your voting powers are weighted
by your financial contribution. So, among the five parties, which include the state of
Idaho, Ada County, Boise city, city of Eagle, and City of Meridian, Meridian's vote for the
first year is only weighted at 3.57 percent. In contrast, the state of Idaho's vote is 61.73
percent. Atwo-thirds vote being required for most action. So, once this is formed, your
ability to make big sway is sort of gone. But it's a very well drafted agreement. I
understand it was drafted by the Ada County's head attomey, civil attomey. It does give
you opportunity to pull out. It doesn't commit you beyond the current fiscal year. I just
wanted you to be aware that beyond the first year we don't know what the financial
commitments are going to be. With that, I'll leave it open for questions.
De Weerd: Mr. Baird, I guess in the first year will it be pro rated to the year that we are
actually covering?
Baird: Madam Mayor, that was one of the questions. It doesn't specifically state that. I
would like to see something in that -- with that -- with that regard. For example, if the
facility opens on September 1st, obviously, there is just one month left of the fiscal year.
We don't want to spill our entire 52,000 dollars. If it's your direction that I get some
clarification on that, I can do that.
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De Weerd: I guess I would also like to get clarification -- when the amounts were
determined -- I think that was several years ago and they are using the Department of
Commerce numbers, so will it be the population at that time or the population today?
Baird: Madam Mayor --
De Weerd: That 52,000 is what we budgeted.
Baird: And that 52,000 is the amount that's in the agreement. It's not set to change. I'
don't feel the need to inform them that the numbers -- our population numbers have
gone up, because this is what you agreed to as the ticket to admission for the first year
and that's what the agreement says.
De Weerd: Okay. Because there is no provision for how much they could change it. I
do believe there should be something in there that would restrict how much they could
increase it. Again, I believe that you raise the point -- because we have so little in our
weighted vote, we better get everything clarified now, because once we are in this
agreement, I don't think we will have too much more say.
Baird: Madam Mayor, shall I take that as direction to request that rather than setting
forth the criteria in bylaws, that they actually put it in the agreement before signature?
Is that your desire that we try to negotiate that?
De Weerd: That would be mine.
Rountree: That would be my recommendation, Madam Mayor.
Baird: So, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I have two items of direction so far
that I'm getting some direction for. Obviously, we don't have a motion ayet, but one of
them would be to put in some language regarding proration for the first year, depending
on starting date within the fiscal year. Number two, getting some more specifics up
front about criteria for the subsequent years contribution.
De Weerd: At least capping the --
Baird: At least a cap with a percentage.
Bird: Madam Mayor'?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: And whose fiscal year are we using, the state or the city's?
De Weerd: That's a good question.
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Baird: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Bird, in reading
through it, there is a provision that respects the state's fiscal year, but it looks like the
majority of the jurisdictions are municipal with the October 1. I will get a clarification on
that for you on how that works.
Rountree: Madam Mayor? Go ahead, Ted.
Baird: I guess when I said respecting the state fiscal year, the legislature can't act on
approving money until March -- February and March. So, that's what -- it's in there with
regard to that, but there might be some more information here from someone who is
more familiar with the state than I am.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, I'd love to --
Hoaglun: No. The only question I had for Mr. Baird is the fact that the Department of
Health and Welfare is in for almost a million dollars -- 900,000. And if that were to be
reduced, knowing that the governor is looking at a hold back in the future and there is
financial pressures there, if that is reduced, does it -- do they look to the other parties,
the other four members, then, to come up with that difference? Is that what we are
looking at down the road or -- hard to say. Okay.
Baird: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, there is a budget attached at the end of
that agreement and there is only a limited number of parties at this point, so I think your
suspicion may be true.
De Weerd: Mr. Baird, I guess I have one final comment in getting clarification. It looks
like the state is covering for the other counties that this detox center would serve and
Ada County and its cities are covering the rest. If a shortfall should occur, it certainly
shouldn't be to the only county that's actually paying their own local dollars for that,
they really need to go -- and I know that the percentage of use will be from Ada County,
but there will be some use from the other counties.
Baird: That's correct, Madam Mayor. The service area includes the entire Fourth
Judicial District, which is Ada County, Valley county, Elmore county, and Boise county.
And as you pointed out, none of those are present. There are some -- in addition to
Ada County, there is some fairly large jurisdictions that are also absent from this that will
be using it as well. It doesn't appear at this that Meridian is being asked to share or
shoulder more than its proportionate share of the burden, but that is certainly something
that you will want to be on the lookout for in the future.
De Weerd: Well, I guess that would be what we need to negotiate in the price cap or
what have you, that we are only paying our proportionate share.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
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De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: And there are even other cities within Ada County that aren't included in that.
I wonder if there should be a clause in there with a provision for charging nonmembers
on a per person basis or something like that. If your jurisdictions that are smaller only
send one person a year, you could be billed for that one person -- I assume Meridian
may have enough presence that our annual stipend is going to be worth it to us
eventually, but if small jurisdictions that aren't one of the members could be billed on a
per person basis -- not for resident basis, but per person that gets into the program --
per patient basis, I guess.
De Weerd: Well, I think we just have some suggestions and would like you to come
back with an update.
Baird: Madam Mayor, I think your direction is clear. Despite the fact that there is some
sentiment that this wanted to be finalized by September, I think you have raised enough
issues of concern that I will contact Mr. Argyle with the intent of coming back with some
answers to your questions on October 7th, hopefully, with a revised draft as well.
De Weerd: I guess you can reiterate our commitment to the 52,000 pro rated for the
first year.
Baird: Okay. Very good. Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council.
2. Ingress-Egress Easement for Generations Plaza
Parking Lot Required as a Condition of VAC 00-
005 for the Partial Vacation of the Alley
Intersecting Main Street between Pine and Idaho
Avenue:
De Weerd: Okay. Then, Item 6-C-2.
Baird: Okay. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this item came to our attention --
it's regarding the half of the alley over there by Generations Plaza that's adjacent to the
building where the Flat Bread Pizza is going in. They approached our Planning
Department for a CZC approval for a patio on what they were refemng to as the vacated
alley. In checking the records of the Ada County Highway District, it appears that in the
year 2000 the city made an approval recommendation to the highway district and the
highway district conditionally approved the vacation of half that alley, but it was
conditioned on the city executing an access agreement to the parking lot and that
agreement was not completed by your staff in year 2000. So, the district is willing to
pass a new resolution to vacate the partial alley and all they are looking for is that
access agreement from the city that was agreed to back in 2000. The document is in
your packet tonight. It's very similar to an agreement that we executed in order to get a
partial alley vacation on the Creamery block to accommodate the construction of City
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Hall. ACRD does not prefer to vacate partial alleys, because of traffic flow, but in both
instances they were convinced that using the parking lot as exits, it provides sufficient
circulation. Regarding the financials on this, they valued the alley at that time at 10,200
dollars and in exchange for actually charging that, they took the value of the substitute
access through the city's parking lot as compensation and so in order for the city to get
half of the vacation and for Generations Plaza to get half of the vacation, Gary Benoit
and Vencor paid the city in the year 2001 5,200 dollars. I confirmed with our accounting
department that we did receivd that payment and they haven't gotten their land six years
later. So, what I'm looking for tonight is your approval of the access agreement, which
would allow this six year old transaction to be completed.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions from Mr. Baird?
Rountree: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. If there is no questions, do I have --
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Rountree: I move that we approve the access agreement before us for the vacation of
the alleyway, intersection of Main between Pine and Idaho, and authorize the Mayor to
sign and the Clerk to attest.
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Seeing none,
Madam Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 7: Items Moved from Consent Agenda:
De Weerd: Okay. Item 8 -- Item 7, we had no items moved from the Consent Agenda.
Item 8: Request for Reconsideration for Overland Village by Relo
Development:
De Weerd: So, Item 8 is a request for reconsideration for Overland Village. Council,
you do have the letter for your consideration. If we have any questions, certainly we
could get further clarification, otherwise, I will ask for your direction.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
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September 23, 2008
Page 15 of 73
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: If we don't have any question needed, I move we approve --what one are we on?
Rountree: Eight.
Bird: Eight.
De Weerd: Then, you would like to reconsider this?
Bird: I'm sorry, I was looking at something else. Let me think a minute.
De Weerd: Council, I don't know if I take your silence as a desire not to reconsider this
item --
Rountree: I'm waiting on Mr. Bird. He had a motion started and I'm not sure if he wants
to make one or finish one.
Bird: No. Go ahead.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, just for discussion, there is an indication that there is some
new information. Our big issue was emergency access. They say in their letter that
they have a possibility of providing emergency access, as well as contributing two
additional accesses, I would be willing to at least listen to their new proposal, but if they
don't answer the questions we had previously, it's not going to be beneficial use of their
time or our time. So, I'm willing to reconsider based on what they said in their letter.
Bird: Second.
Rountree: I didn't move that, but --
De Weerd: We didn't have a motion yet.
Bird: Oh, I thought that was a motion.
Rountree: That's my position.
De Weerd: Okay. Well, if you are willing to make a motion, I know Mr. Bird will second
it.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I move that we approve the reconsideration for Overland
Village.
Bird: I second it.
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September 23, 2008
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De Weerd: Okay. Discussion? Okay. Madam Clerk, will you, please, call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: Okay. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Canning: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: We will -- yes.
Canning: For the benefit of the applicant I did want to explain that there is a fee for the
reconsideration that she will need to pay before we schedule a heairing date for her.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Canning: Thank you.
Item 9: Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Denial: AZ 08-001
Request for Annexation and Zoning of 9.06 acres from the RUT & R1
zoning districts in Ada County to the C-G zoning district for Overland
Village by Relo Development - 3330 East Overland Road:
Item 10: Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Denial: VAC 08-001
Request for a Vacation of the existing right-of--way of S. Rackham Way for
Overland Village by Relo Development - 3330 East Overland Road:
De Weerd: Item 9 is Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law for denial on AZ 08-001.
We have the same on Item 10 for VAC 08-001.
Baird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Baird.
Baird: Given the motion to reconsider that matter, I would suggest the appropriate
motion will be to vacate Items 9 and 10.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Rountree: I move to vacate Items No. 9 and 10 pertaining to Overland Village.
Zaremba: Second.
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September 23, 2008
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De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to vacate Items 9 and 10. All those in
favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 11: FP 08-015 Request for Final Plat approval for 19single-family residential
building lots and 7 common lots on 6.78 acres in an R-4 zoning district for
Bancroft Estates Subdivision by Providence Development, LLC - 2180
East Amity Road:
De Weerd: Item 11 is SP 08-015. I will ask for staff comments, if they should have any.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, we do have a letter from the
applicant stating they are in agreement with the conditions of approval.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Council, any further information needed on this item?
Rountree: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Do I have a motion?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I move we approve Item 11, final plat 08-015 for Bancroft Estates
Subdivision.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to approve Item 11. Madam Clerk, will
you, please, call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 12: Continued Public Hearing from August 26, 2008: PP 08-007 Request
for Preliminary Plat approval of 21 building lots on 12.62 acres for Una
Mas by Una Mas, LLC - 3945 E. Ustick Road:
De Weerd: Okay. Item 12 has been requested to continue to October 28th. I would
need a motion to do so.
Rountree: So moved.
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September 23, 2008
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Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to continue Item 12 to October 28th,
2008. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 13: Continued Public Hearing from September 2, 2008: AZ 06-063
Request for Annexation and Zoning of 38.68 acres from RUT and R-1
zones to C-G zones for Waltman Property (aka Browning Plaza) by
Waltman, LLC - 505, 521, 615 and 675 Waltman Lane:
Item 14: Continued Public Hearing from September 2, 2008: PP 08-001
Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 52 commercial /office lots and 1
common lot on 38.21 acres in a proposed C-G zoning district for
Browning Plaza (aka Waltman Property) by SLN Planning, Inc. - 505,
521, 615 and 675 West Waltman Lane:
De Weerd: Okay. Items 13 and 14 are continued public hearings from September 2nd
on AZ 06-063 and PP 08-011.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, at the last hearing Council directed
staff to document the changes discussed at the hearing and bring them back to Council.
Mrs. Wafters and I met with the applicant to come to agreement on the DA provisions
and, then, Mrs. Wafters prepared a memo for tonight's hearing date that was in your
packet based on that conversation. Staff has no outstanding issues and the applicant
indicated to me that he's in agreement. I believe we -- well, does Council have any
questions of staff?
De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Rountree: I have none.
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Okay. Council, what would like to do? You asked and staff
delivered.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Rountree: I would move that we close the public hearing on Items 13 and 14.
Bird: Second.
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September 23, 2008
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De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing on Items
13 and 14. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Okay. Any discussion?
Rountree: Question for Ted. We had approved the annexation and zoning, as well as
the preliminary plat for this project previously. There was a reconsideration of some of
the conditions of that approval. We have dealt with those the last time and staff has
corrected those. We don't move to reapprove an approval. Do we have a motion to
amend the previous conditions of approval?
Baird: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, and Council Member Rountree, that
sounds like as good a plan as any. Maybe the planning director has an idea, since you
have been more intimately involved with what's been going on here.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Rountree, I believe
the reconsiderations are, essentially, a new hearing. So, I think that you need to take
action. It would be like -- it would be like the first time.
Rountree: Okay. Then, a question for either Anna or Ted. How do we address the
conditions of the development agreement? As amended by stafFs letter this evening?
Canning: Yes. I think that would be appropriate.
Rountree: Okay. Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I would move that we approve Item 13, AZ 06-063 with the amended
conditions as outlined in the staff memo.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to approve Item 13. Any discussion?
Madam Clerk, roll call.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: Thank you. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Item 14.
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September 23, 2008
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Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Rountree: I move that we approve the preliminary plat for 08-001, again, reflecting the
conditions that were put forth for the annexation.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Okay. Roll call.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: Okay. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 15: Public Hearing: CPA 08-002 Request for Comprehensive Plan
Amendment to modify the Future Land Use Map by changing the land use
designation for approximately 10 acres from Low Density Residential to
Mixed Use -Community for Eagle and Victory by Rose Law Group -
Northwest Comer of East Victory Road and South Eagle Road:
Item 16: Public Hearing: AZ 08-010 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 3.75
acres from RUT and R1 to C-N zoning district for Eagle and Victory by
Rose Law Group -Northwest Comer of East Victory Road and South
Eagle Road:
De Weerd: Items 15 and 16 have been also requested to continue. I will open these
two public hearings on CPA 08-022 -- 002, song, and AZ 08-010.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we continue CPA 08-002, AZ 08-010, until October 28th, 2008.
Hoaglun: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to continue Items 15 and 16 to October 28th.
All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
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September 23, 2008
Page 21 of 73
De Weerd: I think with the removal of some of those items -- sir, generally when they
are requested to continue, we do ask that -- because the people are not here to make
the presentation on that application -- are you the applicant?
Holman: Madam Mayor, he's talking about Waltman.
Rountree: Waltman.
De Weerd: Oh, Waltman. It was only continued for those specific directions that the
Council requested. I'm sorry. Those -- it was continued for just limited information for
Council to determine how to make their motion. So, I am sorry if that gave you a false
impression, because it was not a public hearing, other than to accept additional
information for clarity on the motion. We have had -- we have had a gajillion public
hearings on this item.
Rountree: Eighteen, I think.
De Weerd: Well, I just added a new Webster word.
Rountree: A Gajillion.
De Weerd: Gigantic was just recently added. Sir, all I can tell you is we have had -- I
believe that Councilman Rountree said 18 public hearings and today's public hearing
was only for limited information specific to the motion to the development agreement
that was a result of all the public hearings and all the testimony that we have received
up to this date and I apologize that it was misleading, but that was continued only for
that information. And it's the only way -- we can't -- it has to be a public hearing in order
to accept that information. So, it has to be listed that way on the agenda and it was
misleading to you I can see, but the motions had already been made, they were just
waiting to have all of the information consolidated, so that they could make sure all the
points of their approval were captured. So, I would ask you, sir, to ask staff some of
your questions -- Mr. Baird, maybe you can step to the back of the room and help
answer --
Baird: Madam Mayor, I would be happy to and to what you have just added, I'd just say
that after the hearing is closed and the motions are made, we can't reopen it without re-
noticing and there is no reason to do that based on the very limited reason for which
you continued the hearing tonight. And that's just for the record. I will be happy to step
out and give what information I can.
De Weerd: Okay. So, sir, if you could have the dialogue with Mr. Baird, we would
appreciate that.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Sonya will go out there also.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Okay. Where was I?
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September 23, 2008
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Item 17: Public Hearing: CPA 08-004 Request for Comprehensive Plan
Amendment to modify the Future Land Use Map by changing the land use
designation of approximately 40.5 acres from Medium Density Residential
to Mixed Use-Regional for Meridian and Amity by Hawkins Companies -
Northwest Comer of West Amity Road and South Meridian Road:
Canning: Item 17.
De Weerd: Okay. Since we did have changes to our agenda, I was going to remind
those in attendance tonight that after a certain time in the evening you don't want us to
continue, so if it gets really late we might have to continue some of these items. But it
looks like we might be getting through them. So, I will go ahead and open Item 17 for
public hearing on CPA 08-004 with staff comments.
Canning: Madam Mayor, before Mr. Parsons makes his presentation, I did want to
inform you that there are concurrent applications to this that will be heard by the
Planning and Zoning Commission on October 5th and I didn't know if that might
influence your decision on whether to hold the public hearing tonight or if you wanted to
wait for those.
De Weerd: What is the desire of Council? Shall we ask what the applicant's preference
would be? First, what is the Council's preference? We will start with that. Or do you
have one?
Rountree: Madam Mayor, it's kind of a chicken and egg thing with me. Without hearing
what's being proposed, I don't know how to react to the Comp Plan amendment
request. If they have specifics about what they want to do with this piece of property,
that might help build their case if I'm inclined to not agree with the Comp Plan
amendment, but without hearing their case on the amendment, we are not going to
know what's going to be done or why it's being requested, so -- plus they could have a
P&Z hearing on their proposal and we could reject the Comp Plan amendment at some
future date. So, I think my preference would be let's start the hearing, let's take some
testimony. If it appears that we might need additional information, then, we can
continue it, but at least we have heard it and have a start of what's going on.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I would concur with Councilman Rountree's conclusion. I think not only for
us, but for the Planning and Zoning Commission, it would help for us to hear some of
this and perhaps offer a consensus, even if we don't make a final decision tonight, so
that the Planning and Zoning Commission knows whether it's worth their time to hear
the other matters.
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September 23, 2008
Page 23 of 73
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I also concur. Let's see --
De Weerd: Can you, please, speak up.
Bird: I also concur. Let's go ahead with it.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Anna, it sounds like they would like to hear this item, so
I will ask for staff comments.
Parsons: Thank you, Members of the Council. This is the Meridian Amity CPA before
you tonight. If you look at the zoning map that I prepared for you, you can see right now
it's a pretty undeveloped site. It's all currently zoned RUT in Ada County. The Comp
Plan before you tonight really is for two parcels. That's this larger portion to the north --
the northern half, just south of Harris Street, and a five acre parcel here in the northwest
comer of the development. Here is the aerial again. You can see it's pretty much
agricultural land. The applicant's wishing -- right now these designations for this
portions -- or those two parcels are medium density residential and they are requesting
to go to a mixed use regional designation. This is what the current Comp Plan looks
like as we speak today and this is what it should look like if you so choose to
recommend approval -- or approve the project tonight. One discrepancy I would point
out is when GIS did this map, they left that portion of the parcel off, so that didn't get
that designation on there, so we will try to have that corrected before the resolution is
completed on this -- for this project. The applicant has submitted a conceptual site plan.
As Anna pointed out, the annexation request will be -- will be before Planning and
Zoning Commission on October 16th and right now I'm waiting -- I'm holding the
variance application in my office until we get recommendations on that annexation, so
that that variance staff report can catch up to the annexation request. The reason why
the applicant is requesting the variance -- if you look at the submitted concept plan here,
you will see that they are proposing three access points onto Meridian Road, which is
not permitted in the UDC. The other thing I'd like to point out to Council and the Mayor
tonight is that this is not the submitted concept plan that the P&Z -- the Planning and
Zoning Commission will hear on the October 16th hearing. This is what they acted on
when they recommended -- forwarded a recommendation of approval to you tonight. I'll
let the applicant -- my understanding is they are going to have somewhat of a revised
version for you to look at tonight. I won't get into that, I'll let them -- as Councilman
Rountree pointed out, let them provide that additional information for you to help you
guide -- to help guide your decision on this Comprehensive Plan amendment.
De Weerd: Excuse me, Bill, but would they be able to hear it?
Rountree: No, not if it's an application before the city. We have to act on it. We can't
here.
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September 23, 2008
Page 24 of 73
Parsons: Very well. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, that's -- typically, we try to
encourage the applicant to hold up -- try to have them hold the applications and have
other applications catch up to that, so that you guys can act on that and have the
appropriate information before you.
De Weerd: So, by the end of this they may find that they want to continue it, so they
can hear it all at the same time.
Parsons: Absolutely correct.
De Weerd: So, we will work very hard to keep it focused on just the CPA.
Parsons: Absolutely. So, one thing Iwould -- so, some of the outstanding issues for
you tonight and some of the things that Commission discussed -- the Commission did
recommend approval of this project on August 14th, 2008. There were some folks that
spoke in favor of it at the public hearing. One was Lance Evans, Jason Overy and
Carol Gossett were in favor. Also Steve Hasson, who is the planning director from
Kuna, was there and provided comments on the application as well. He was making
comments in reference to restricting access to Meridian Road. Key issues that
Commission discussed was is this an appropriate mixed use development in this area.
Is there compatibility with surrounding residential subdivisions and is it appropriate for a
big box retail adjacent to future residential. Outstanding issues before you tonight is,
one, access points to Meridian Road. Is the Comprehensive Plan amendment
consistent with a mixed use regional designation. Again, is it compatible with future --
the surrounding residential to the north and west of the site and is it appropriate for
Council to take action on the CPA application tonight. With that staff would be happy to
answer any questions you may have regarding the project.
De Weerd: Thank you, Bill. Any questions for staff at this point?
Bird: Madam Mayor, none.
Rountree: Not right now, but I'm sure I'm going to.
De Weerd: Okay. Would the applicant, please, come forward. And I will apologize that
I'm standing, not sitting. It's not that I want to have a better angle of looking down at
you, I have three bulging disks in my back and so sitting is not pleasurable. Sir, if you
can kind of keep it angled to Council and the audience as well as you can.
Canning: Madam Mayor, may I question Mr. Evans? Mr. Evans, if that is not what was
presented to the Planning and Zoning Commission for the Comp Plan amendment, you
will not be able to show it.
Evans: Okay.
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September 23, 2008
Page 25 of 73
Canning: If that is the application you have going to P&Z you can't show it now.
Evans: Okay.
Canning: And if you wanted to, this would be a great time to request continuation, if you
are so inclined.
Rountree: And I will express my frustration as well, but the courts tell us that, it's not our
rule, so --
Evans: Okay.
Rountree: We all feel the same way.
De Weerd: So, sir, first, if you would state your name and address for the record.
Evans: Thank you. My name is Lance Evans. I'm with Hawkins Companies. Address
is 855 Broad Street, Suite 300, Boise, Idaho.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Evans: I think it's quite simple, the reason we are asking to go forward at this time for
this development application of this Comprehensive Plan amendment is to keep the ball
rolling, so to speak. This is a multi-step process. There is a lot of different faces for this
development. The first step is this Comprehensive Plan amendment. The request is
actually for -- and it's a little deceiving to look at the whole site. It's just for the northern
half. Okay? The lower half is already mixed use regional. Okay. We are adding the
five acres to the west of that, the small parcel. It makes it a little straighter line. And Bill
pointed this out, but it's just real important to understand that this is just an expansion of
what's already there, given it is a change, but we do want to get the ball rolling on this
one element of this whole development proposal. The steps that are to follow -- I mean,
yes, we still have to annex and zone. We have to come back through for staff
approvals, design review. There is a lot of work to be done on this site, but we thought
we could take one step at a time and get the sign off on that and that's why we haven't
asked for a continuance. All of these details -- and they are all -- there is several issues
that are brought up in the staff report for this Comp Plan amendment that really relate to
the zoning application. That's why I wanted to show you a new site plan. We have
done a lot of work. We have been working with staff, meeting with them. We have
submitted -- to address their concems. We have submitted a trafFc study that's being
studied by ITD and ACHD for their comments. We have added aback-age road. We
have modified the pedestrian pathway. We have changed the zoning designations and
re-noticed and that's part of why this isn't together is because of those modifications.
We have changed the densities and the allotment of office and the residential and the
commercial to meet staffs request and address their issues and we have done some
other site modifications. Changing the size of some of the buildings in the proposal to
meet other concems as the development goes forward. That is why we are here is to e
Meridian City Council
September 23, 2008
Page 26 of 73
we -- there is a lot of changes and other things that are happening, but we'd like to get
your go ahead before we keep working on the zoning and annexation and just see --the
big picture, is this an appropriate thing to do. And I think that's, essentially, why we are
before you tonight is just that one item. I think there is several benefits to the city for
approval of this development. We will provide commercial services and residential and
office services south of I-84 where, really, there exists no -- no regional services and
neighborhood services to meet the needs and go to the city to the south. Many
residents already exist. The commercial services are still needed. And we want to get
those in there as soon as we can. It will be -- you know, hopefully, this development will
bring retailers into the area and provide those services to current and future residents.
The development also expedites the expansion of water and sewer services to this
southern section of Meridian. We are going right down to the Comp Plan area boundary
with this development, right to, hopefully, the annexation line of the future designation.
We want to see that go forward. It will create that annexation pathway to the south to
allow the city to expand in that area. The location and the site design will also take
advantage of existing and future residential uses and traffic patterns and create a single
point for retail services. It's a big issue in the Comprehensive Plan. You need to have
that done. We want to create it in a location where it will be successful and that's why
we proposed this development where it is. And there is also the commercial land will
increase the tax base for the City of Meridian. As I said, this is just the first step and we
thought we could take a look at just this single issue of in the Comprehensive Planning
land use map is it appropriate to have that area -- that 40 acres be designated as mixed
use regional or should it stay medium density? We have done a lot of the site design
and buffering with the adjacent sites -- with our future neighbors. It's vacant now, but
even to future neighbors we agreed to a very expensive back-age road that will help
with the site circulation. There is a lot of elements that we are still refining, but we want
to give a kickoff on this large picture, like today. Give your approval of that, hopefully.
Are there any questions?
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: Madam Mayor. Your application is from medium density residential to mixed
use. If we could go back to the concept that apparently was presented at the Planning
and Zoning hearing. There we go. If you'd explain the mixed uses that you're
proposing and how they relate to one another.
Evans: Well, to the north of the site -- to the northwest comer we have residential and
that is one of the things that we have expanded a little bit to try and add in that area.
Then there is office and, then, we go into --
De Weerd: No, Bill, you need to show the other one. The bubble map. Because the
other one is really not there.
Rountree: No. That's -- they presented that at Planning and Zoning.
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September 23, 2008
Page 27 of 73
Evans: That's correct.
Rountree: Both of these.
De Weerd: Did they?
Parsons: Madam Mayor, yes, both those were presented at that hearing on October --
or, excuse me, August 7th and August 14th.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Evans: This is the retail area, then, the office is in this area. We have got some
restaurants and those types of uses in this area. We are trying to keep aconsistent --
you know -- well, to reduce the impact to the properties to the north. And, then, we
come into a commercial area to the south. We have got several box retailers and, then,
larger and, then, out here on the periphery we have, you know, .numerous other -- and,
really, we don't know what the mix is going to be exactly. Services, restaurants, the mix
is yet to be determined. So, that's why we are starting this process and trying to go
through it all to get down that road, so that we can start marketing it with specifics of
here is what the City of Meridian has approved.
Rountree: Excuse me. Madam Mayor'?
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Rountree: So, your proposal, in terms of the actual change, would be that northern half
of that parcel, if you will. About that point north.
Evans: About this point north is where the mixed use regional -- it's currently medium
density and that would turn into mixed use regional.
Rountree: So, what kind of percentage of that land mass are you talking about as
residential?
Evans: Residential we are proposing right at seven acres and, then, office would be
about three. So, we are talking 25 percent office-residential and, then, the rest would
be commercial.
Rountree: Retail commercial.
Evans: Retail commercial.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
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September 23, 2008
Page 28 of 73
Hoaglun: You had mentioned that you already had some mixed use regional. Was that
the southern part?
Evans: Correct. Everything down here is already -- well, except for that five acres that
sits right in there. About five acres. This whole comer, basically, is mixed use regional
today.
Hoaglun: Okay.
Evans: If I could hold that steady, it would be a lot better, but I'm -- so, this is the mixed
use regional today. We are adding this and this.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor. Question, then, for staff. Has all that brown that we see at
that intersection -- is all that mixed use regional on both sides of the highway?
Parsons: Madam Mayor, Commissioner Hoaglun -- Hoaglun -- apologize for that
butchery there. This portion here is a mixed use community. This site -- east of
Meridian Road is mixed use regional and, then, also that little portion as well. But, yes,
essentially, it's all mixed use, just a different classification, community versus a regional.
Hoaglun: Thank you.
Parsons: You're welcome.
De Weerd: Council, any other questions? Okay. Thank you.
Evans: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. This is a public hearing. Is there any additional testimony on this
item?
McKay: Becky McKay, Engineering Solutions, 1029 North Rosario, Meridian. I'm
representing Greg Johnson. He owns 52 acres on the western boundary of the
Hawkins property. He did want me to go on the record that he is supportive of their
Comp Plan map amendment and they have worked with us closely to coordinate their
efforts with ours and to look at the big picture here and we are supportive of this and
ask the Council to approve their application. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Rountree: Question for Becky. I'm going to laser it here.
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September 23, 2008
Page 29 of 73
McKay: Okay.
Rountree: This parcel or -- give me the 52 acres.
McKay: This parcel right here.
Rountree: Okay. Thank you.
Parsons: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, one thing staff failed to mention is
they did receive two letters -- some written comments in favor of this application as well
from folks that live in the area. That should be in your packet tonight, too.
De Weerd: Yes. Thank you, Bill. Okay. Council, any further -- oh, I'm sorry. Is there
any additional testimony? Council, any further questions? That you would have of staff
or the applicant? Would the applicant have any further remarks?
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I have a question for Anna and it relates to an issue that she
brought out. As it relates to taking action on the Comprehensive Plan amendment
without the associated annexation information. Help me understand that again.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, it isn't that you can't take action
separately, of course, it's -- typically, the Council has asked to see the whole picture. In
the words of former Council Member Nary, it was -- I don't know that what we are
seeing is any better than what we have got, unless we can see what their actual -- the
details of what they were proposing. So, that is why we strongly encourage folks to get
the whole application up to you, so that -- for your consideration. It's just because you
have been reluctant to act on things without all of the pieces together. So, it's not that
you can't.
Rountree: No. I'm just trying to put the -- juggle the pieces here. The applicant's
indicated that they could do that this evening, but we are reluctant to hear it on this
hearing, because it's an application before the city Planning and Zoning for annexation
and zoning of the concept plan.
De Weerd: That's correct.
Rountree: So, Mr. Baird, could you help me try to figure this out, not only for myself, but
for the applicant.
Baird: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, what you don't have the ability to do
tonight is to tie them down to any of the proposal, the bubble that was just shown as a
concept. When that comes before you in the form of an annexation, you have the ability
to require that it be -- execution of the development agreement that would pin those
things down. Certainly your approval tonight sets you down the road to do that, but it's
been your desire in the past to do it all at the same time.
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September 23, 2008
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Canning: Council Member Rountree, I think what you're talking about is that typically
you're not allowed to hear and make judgment on an application in process before the
Planning and Zoning Commission makes their recommendation up to you. Is that more
along the lines of --
Rountree: That's what I'm thinking, yes.
Canning: And that is just --
Rountree: So, I guess my question is how do we get beyond that? I mean I'd like more
information, but the more information is now before the city in the form of an application.
Baird: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, you could simply continue this matter to
a mid November date, at which time we'd anticipate having the other matters on the
agenda and you could consider them all at the same time.
Rountree: But, then, that gets back to my question previously. There is a presumption,
then, that we are going to approve it and that kind of puts the applicant out there doing
work that we may not accept. I'm trying to make logic of this.
Baird: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, if your desire is to not go forward with
the Comp Plan amendment, you can make such a motion tonight and, then, there
wouldn't be any reason to have the other matters come back in November.
Rountree: I guess if -- my question is in terms of directions to the applicant. We can't
condition a Comp Plan amendment, but we can certainly let them know what our issues
are, they bring forth an annexation and not addressing those issues might very well be
the death nail to their annexation. Is that the appropriate way to convey the
information?
Canning: Madam Mayor, Council Member Rountree, I would be concerned that it would
be construed as a public hearing on an application that was not properly noticed. You
would, basically, be providing guidance on an application that's not ripe for you yet, so --
Rountree: I think -- I'm not wanting to see anymore information that they might have
before Planning and Zoning. What I'm saying is that we have a concept and there are
things on the concept that we can't establish conditions on with an approval of the
Comprehensive Plan amendment and I'm speaking specifically -- we have an ordinance
against access on state highways. Yet, this proposal shows three accesses on the
state highway. We heard, even though we weren't supposed to, that they are now
proposing aback-age road.
De Weerd: Which is a good thing.
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September 23, 2008
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Rountree: Which is a good thing. Yeah. But -- and something that I would suggest if
we move forward with this, but, again, we --
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Hold on. I'm going to speak first.
Rountree: She's going to help us out, because she knows where to go.
De Weerd: You know, we just went through this on the corner of Victory and South
Eagle and we annexed it with a -- more of a bubble map like that and I would probably
advise the applicants not to show any detail when it's just a Comprehensive Plan
amendment, just so we don't get into the -- we are supposed to be looking at the 20,000
foot level and not the ten foot level and so I guess we could reiterate the goals of these
mixed use areas and some of the designer types of things that we would like to see, but
to comment and remind our -- our access management ordinance, but, certainly, what
we need to consider today is -- does adding more -- 40 additional acres of mixed use
regional make sense to that area, to service the number of house tops that we putting
out there and the big picture, because right now we are looking at the big picture and
I'm sorry that the Planning and Zoning Commission saw that. I do know we have a
preference that when we annex we know what we are annexing in and what that might
mean. But I guess in my opinion a Comprehensive Plan change is trying to look at the
big picture and say does it make sense for our community as it is building out, that
these additional services at the regional level are needed and that is what we based our
decisions on, not what might be put there in front of us that we will see further down the
road. And so that's -- that's kind of the perspective that I place on the Comprehensive
Plan changes.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor, I, actually, was going to venture an opinion and the two ways
that I see to go are to discuss a consensus and, then, continue it for the other items to
catch up with it, so that we hear them all at once or we could act on this and I would
propose that either my or my consensus would involve that I think this would be an
appropriate change to have mixed use there and we envision not what Meridian Road is
today, but what State Highway 69 is going to be in the future with all the growth that's
going to happen in south Meridian and Kuna and other areas down there. I'm sure it will
be the equivalent of Eagle Road at some point and to me that means that the mixed use
regional would be appropriate down there. I would add onto that that my opinion about
approving mixed use regional does not include giving up our developments along state
highways, which means it would not include three accesses.
De Weerd: Or at least more access than at the half mile.
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September 23, 2008
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Zaremba: Yes.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I believe this application is just strictly a Comprehensive Plan --
De Weerd: That's correct.
Bird: -- amendment. I, too, agree that mixed use regional, I believe, is a good
designation for that area. I, basically, wish they hadn't of shown the concept for just a -
the Comprehensive Plan amendment, because I'm like Mr. Zaremba, you know, we - in
a Comprehensive Plan we - we don't determine how many egresses and ingresses
they are going to have, that all comes when they come in with an application, which I
believe is coming forward. So, I have no problem passing on this CPA today, as just a
Comp Plan amendment. It has nothing to do with anything else.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Bird.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Bill, could you put that - when I had that question about the other brown and
what was the regional back up there, you know, when you take that 20,000 foot view,
you, obviously, see that there is some plans out there and there has been some
designations for mixed use regional already in place in different areas to add -- to make
that half section along the state highway there on both sides of the road mixed use
regional, you know, they say the devil is in the details and that may be coming, but I
don't see that as being a problem to go that route and to change that farther down to the
north. It sounds like there is a lot of things to consider later on when a plan actually
comes forward, but for now it looks like I think the developers are looking at the
population growth and what's happening out there and I see what they are doing and I
wouldn't have a problem supporting a change to that. Of course, I don't have the battle
scars some of you do yet, but --
Rountree: You will.
Hoaglun: Yeah. That's where I am right now.
De Weerd: Okay. So, any final remar>1cs from the applicant?
Evans: Yes. Thank you very much, Madam Mayor. Madam Mayor and Council, I just
-- I want to just reiterate that we are not trying to jump ahead or - we realize there is
issues that need to be worked on, but we would like to get the assurance of at least,
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September 23, 2008
Page 33 of 73
hey, this much is okay and I echo exactly what you said, Madam Mayor, that's why I
wanted to get up here and say that, hey, this is the big picture, this is one application.
The zoning and annexation is another application. After that is -- you know, there is
different applications and different review processes for each of these different layers
and we will have to go through those as we go forward, but we want to get as far down
the road and over and down as many steps as possible before we invest a lot more time
and money into what's going on. Thank you very much.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Council, anything further?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we close the CPA 08-004, public hearing.
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to close the pubic hearing on Item 17.
All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, what's your pleasure?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would move that we approve CPA 08-004, the request for a Comprehensive
Plan amendment, to modify the future land use map, by changing a land use
designation approximately 40.5 acres for medium density residential to mixed use
regional for Meridian and Amity by Hawkins Companies and to include all staff,
applicant, and public comment.
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 17. Is there any further
discussion?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor, yes.
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Meridian City Council
September 23, 2008
Page 34 of 73
Zaremba: I would just clarify again, as I think we have all stated, that in agreeing with
the Comprehensive Plan amendment, we are not agreeing or disagreeing, but
particularly not agreeing to the accesses.
De Weerd: I'm sure the applicant took note of that comment. Any further discussion?
Madam Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 18: Public Hearing: CPA 08-003 Request for Comprehensive Plan
Amendment to modify the Future Land Use Map by changing the land use
designation from Medium Density Residential to Mixed Use-Community
for approximately 94 acres for Volterra Commercial by Primeland
Investment Group, LLC -west of North Ten Mile Road and north of West
McMillan Road:
De Weerd: Council. Okay. Item 18 was also requested to continue to November 5th.
Do I -- I will open the public hearing on CPA 08-003 and ask Council for a motion.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we continue the public hearing on CPA 08-003 to November 5th, 2008.
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to continue Item 18 to November 5th,
2008. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carves.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 19: Public Hearing: CPA 08-009 Request for a Comprehensive Plan
Amendment to modify the Future Land Use Map by changing the
designation of approximately 9 acres from Medium Density Residential to
High Density Residential for Biskay by Greg Johnson -south side of
Harris Street, west of South Meridian Road (SH 69) and north of West
Amity Road:
De Weerd: Okay. Item 19 is a public hearing on CPA 08-009. I will ask for staff
comments as I open this public hearing.
Canning: Madam Mayor, I'm going to jump in front of Mr. Parsons again, but it -- one of
the things we don't like to do is annoy you, but every single one of these applications
Meridian City Council
September 23, 2008
Page 35 of 73
has a concept plan. So, would you like to us present the concept plan to you tonight or
--okay. I just wanted double-check.
De Weerd: We appreciate the checking on if you're annoying us yet. It's not the
designated hour.
Rountree: It's not the concept plan, it's the logic.
Parsons: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is the Comprehensive Plan for
the Biskay project. Again, this site is west of the last project we just heard, the
Meridian-Amity project, so, again, the site encompasses 52 acres, but the Comp Plan
amendment is only for approximately nine acres of that site. The aerial. Again, it is
underdeveloped, just like the adjacent parcel. This is a little bit skewed again. I
apologize for that. But here is what they are proposing to change going from a medium
density residential to a high density residential designation and if you see this green line
here on the -- as the map exists today, that's really the portion that they are proposing to
change, is that -- that line and, then, going northeast of that is that -- that's roughly nine
acres. Again, here is the concept plan that they are proposing. It's a little skewed, but
this is the high density portion proposing -- the concept plan shows a higher density
residential here, transitioning to a medium high density residential, your typical four-
plexes, and, then, your single family detached units here as they get farther away from
that mixed use -- proposed mixed use project.
De Weerd: Okay. You're making me dizzy with that.
Parsons: I apologize for that. So, during -- the Commission did recommend denial of
this project at their August 7th and 14th hearing. Speaking in favor was Becky McKay
and Jason Overy. Staff did not receive any comments prior to tonight's hearing.
However, we did receive comments from the Parks Department. The Comprehensive
Plan -- and I will go up to that previous slide. If you look on this -- this lot here, that
symbol represents a possible park location on this site and based on the park's
comprehensive plan, it's designated for what is a community park, which is your typical
15 to 30 acre site. Now, if I go back here to the concept plan, the applicant is proposing
3.5 acres. So, I had asked the parks director Steve Siddoway to provide staff with some
comments to kind of see what direction they were looking or what they were looking for
in that area of south Meridian and that memo should be in your packet tonight. If you'd
like, I could go over those details a little bit later. So, some of the discussion items at
the hearing, the Commission hearing, was, again, the park site, the need for a high
density residential designation and mixed use development and, then, again, Planning
and Zoning did deny that based on that. They thought that the mixed use designation --
regional designation would provide enough of a transitional buffer for those future
residentials to the west. So, outstanding issues for Council tonight would be how do
you want the applicant to proceed as far as the park requirements and what's dictated
by comprehensive parks and, then, also is a high density designation appropriate for
this site. With that I'd be happy to answer any questions Mayor and Council may have.
Meridian City Council
September 23, 2008
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De Weerd: Thank you, Bill. Council, do you have any questions at this time?
Bird: I have none, Mayor.
De Weerd: Okay. Would the applicant like to come forward.
Canning: Mrs. McKay, I wanted to inform you that we will not have podiums at the new
City Hall for you to put your large posters on. I'm sorry.
McKay: Old habits are hard to break. I'm becoming obsolete. Becky McKay,
Engineering Solutions, 1029 North Rosario, Meridian. I'm representing the applicant on
this Comprehensive Plan map amendment. What I have up there on our board is what
we presented to the Planning and Zoning Commission. I guess, you know, one of the
things that puzzles me -- the staff did encourage us with Comp Plan map amendments
to provide as much information as we could. Obviously, realizing the fact that, you
know, we are coming up with some different ideas, but we will be coming back through
the process with our annexation, conditional uses, et cetera, which is where the site
specific details will be worked out and -- but we thought it was important -- we agreed
with the staff that we'd kind of give the Council an idea of what our thoughts are. What's
before you this evening -- as I indicated, there are 52 acres in this particular piece of
property. To kind of give you a history, initially here, a year and a half, two years ago,
we did a single family layout on this particular piece of property. We also did a single
family layout on the property to the north for Mr. Centers. At that time we met with Doug
Strong, chatted with Doug about what he thought as far as parks needs in this particular
area and he indicated to us that he envisioned like some type of a neighborhood park at
the center section. The reason that he thought that would work well was the fact that
Mr. Centers owned this property, he owned the two properties west and, then, Mr.
Johnson owned that property and a combination could -- could be created from each
parcel to make up this center piece. This is Hams Street, that's the half mile, so that
would be a signalized intersection. Harris would come and that continuous collector
would go ahead, drop in, and go westward to Linder. The other thing that we discussed
with the parks department was the northwest pipeline. There is a 75 foot easement that
runs diagonally through this property. It also goes through the Hawkins property and
the northwest pipeline runs through that. It was our idea to Doug that, you know, we
thought that would make an awesome greenbelt, amulti-use pathway, and, then, it
would interconnect with the park and continue in a northwesterly direction. He agreed
with us. So, we kind of, you know, hung onto that -- that concept and when we heard
about the Hawkins project, they met with Mr. Johnson and he came back to us and said,
you know, I think we need to retool here. Obviously, this particular area is changing.
This was initially approved as a single family development that I did a couple of years
ago, they kind of abandoned the project, so we are seeing kind of a change -- a little
changing of the gears here. Now, in looking at this, with the pipeline there, it created a
natural boundary, dropping in the collector also created a boundary. And it was our
thought that, you know, what better place to put some high density residential would be
next to a mixed use regional area. If there is any area out there where it makes sense,
that's it. As far as the 52 acres, the nine acres, just constitutes 17 percent of the site.
Meridian City Council
September 23, 2008
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So, we were looking at 17 percent of this site being some higher density apartments
and it would be along the greenbelt here, with park access here, then, we would
transition to another multi-family type component here. What you see there is a loop.
Those are like -- kind of like four-plex type units and, then, we transition to single family
dwellings here. We met with Victoria Laidlaw. She indicated that it was her desire to
have detached single family next to her and, then, Mr. Centers was concerned, he
wanted detached single family next to him. So, that's kind of the premise that we used
in this design. So, what you see here is -- you know, we have got about six acres of
open space, three and a half acres up here. It was our desire at the time when we
came up with it was that that would be like donation and, then, all of a sudden it cropped
up this regional park issue. I think that's where we kind of got bogged down at the
Planning and Zoning Commission, because they were -- they were kind of caught up in
the memo from Mr. Siddoway as far as the parks. I did have the opportunity to meet
with Steve and Elroy. Elroy informed me that Doug Strong brought this particular
Laidlaw property before the Council here three plus years ago and inquired about the
city purchasing it for a park site and at that time the Council said, no, we don't think
that's the right location due to lack of services, due to public street access, that there
were issues with it. So, Mrs. Laidlaw sold the property to Mr. Johnson. When we look
at your Comp Plan land use map, in evaluating what is south of the freeway, I could
only find one high density designation and that's over at Resolution Park by Mountain
View High School along Overland Road. So, there is very little high density designation
out south of the freeway. In reading some of the periodicals that have been put out,
there is one particular book, it's called Getting Density Right, Creating A Vibrant
Compact Community, and I think that's what we are looking for here. Meridian Road is,
obviously, a transit corridor. We got regional shopping and other essential uses as far
as office and so forth that will be located next to us. If we can't -- where are we going to
place high density multi-family, if not someplace like this. Another thing that o a
periodical that I looked at it talked about compact, sustainable, walk-able neighborhoods
and, you know, using awalk-able village design. I think with this multi-use pathway, the
Hawkins Group also incorporated into their site plan, it's going to be extremely
convenient for people to walk into their commercial complex, bike in there, and for
others it will be inviting to bring them out of the commercial complex and into the park
system and the multi-use pathway continuing on. As far as a regional park, I looked at
your parks plan and in here it states that -- I think they call it C-23, is to be located -- C-
23 proposed park site, community park, intended to serve the southwesterly portion of
the community. The ideal location is at the northwest corner of the intersection of Amity
and Meridian Road. But, yet, the asterisk is kind of right in this area in your parks plan.
You have Bear Creek Park just a hop and a skip over at Stoddard, so I was kind of
puzzled that Steve talked about a regional park in this area and in the middle of a
section, because your other regional parks have been located along the arterials where
they are visible, very accessible, and esthetically pleasing along those arterial corridors.
So, we are not opposed to some type of a park, but, for goodness sakes, you know,
when you're talking a regional park, they are talking 50 acres. Obviously a 50 acre
donation is not viable. We are in changing times here. Changing, interesting times.
We are trying to rethink some of our planning principals. We are having to step back
and look at what we have done and try to guess where we are going and I guess my
Meridian City Council
September 23, 2008
Page 38 of 73
opinion -- you know, on this particular piece of property is mixed use makes sense.
Mixed residential use makes sense. We want to have something that, obviously,
creates a buffer and compliments what the Hawkins Group is doing. We show this
back-age road here, so we get vehicular interconnectivity with Hawkins. They bought
off on that and pedestrian interconnectivity. We think this makes sense. It's
reasonable. I guess where else are we going to put high density residential if we don't
put it on parkways next to easily accessible commercial and close to major arteries. We
have no opposition to this and we feel this is reasonable and this density will, obviously,
create a buffer. Now, the Planning and Zoning Commission, they kind of got hung up
on the other issue of where the mixed use regional should create its own buffer. But
why can't we work together and create a buffer and look at the big picture and that's
kind of what we have done and we have been coordinating closely with the Hawkins
Group to make sure that all of these projects fit together and compliment each other and
we ask the Council to approve this Comp Plan amendment for just this nine acres to
high density residential. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, Becky. Council, any questions for the applicant?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. This is a public hearing. Is there any members of the public who
would like to testify on this application? Yes, sir.
Overy: Hi. Jason Overy, 5537 North Brigadoon Avenue in Meridian. I represent
Hawkins Company and I, too, am personally an owner in the Hawkins project, located at
Meridian and Amity Road. As Becky had stated, we have worked closely with Mr.
Johnson and with Becky to come together with a plan that makes sense. We feel that
their proposed change for the Comprehensive Plan to increase the density for that
section that is in between the pipeline and our proposed higher density residential
component only makes good sense and is good planning for that greater area. So, we
are in support of this requested Comprehensive Plan amendment.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Any further testimony? Seeing none, Council? Becky,
do you have any further comments? Thank you.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Just to start the discussion going, I don't have any problem with going to a
higher density and particularly since we have had the two subjects tonight, the previous
CPA we took away some residential area and not that the number is exactly right, but if
we started out with an acre in this project of medium density and an acre in the other
project of medium density and now we took the other acre away, it makes sense that
doubling the density in this one is a good trade. We are going to have that population
growth somewhere and I think it's fair to accommodate it, considering these two
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September 23, 2008
Page 39 of 73
Comprehensive Plan amendments as a pair. So, I don't have a problem with a higher
density. I do still want to have a discussion about the park part of it. Typically, even a
neighborhood park is seven acres minimum and I understand we are talking about
some paring with another property next door, Mr. Centers' property, I guess. Assuming
that he would make up the difference, but even that is pretty small for an area this size,
so I would like to see a discussion of at least a little bit larger park, if not regional.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Along those lines and it would be a question for Becky to respond to, is that
she made the chess pieces way too fast on the park, because I'm not sure what they
are proposing or not proposing. So, if you could explain what you actually have in mind
with what you have on your concept plan for that piece of property.
McKay: Madam Mayor, Councilman Rountree, initially it was the desire of the parks
department to have a neighborhood park. Okay. But that --
Rountree: What are you going to do? What are you thinking about doing?
McKay: I met with Mr. Siddoway and he said that, obviously, those asterisks just state
that they need a park in this section. That he was open to some other ideas. Mr.
Centers called Mr. Siddoway to discuss his 40 acre parcel that's north of us to see if the
city parks department would be interested in that parcel. If they were to go say, you
know, community regional size. They had some dialogue. Mr. Siddoway talked about
limited budget, that they only have 800,000 dollars, I guess, allocated for this. Mr.
Johnson also approached the parks department about the property over on Linder and
Victory, to see if they would be interested in that one. Steve said he rejected that one
due to a canal and topography. So, I mean we are still open to discussions with the
parks department. I guess the problem, as Steve indicated, he was looking for donation
and where we have 52 acres, obviously, the threshold of our donation couldn't be, you
know, 25, 30, 40 percent of the property. But Mr. Johnson was still willing. That's three
and a half acres that you see there north of the collector and, then, there is two and a
half acres in the northwest pipeline comdor and it's 75 feet wide. And Mr. Centers at
the time was agreeable to donating some land also, but not to the scope that Mr.
Siddoway has been talking about. Did I answer your question?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Rountree: Becky, this is not an insult, but you should have been a lawyer. My question
is -- and I think you answered it.
McKay: Okay.
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September 23, 2008
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Rountree: You don't propose to do anything, other than leave it as medium density
residential at this point in time?
McKay: Correct. For the remaining acreage? Yes, sir.
Rountree: Okay. Thank you.
McKay: Yes, sir. Okay. Always taking the long road. Sony.
Rountree: Yeah.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any other questions, further information needed? Okay. Do
I have a motion to close the public hearing?
Bird: So moved.
Hoaglun: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing on Item 19. All
those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carves.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, if there is no additional information desired, do I have a
motion?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve CPA 08-009, the request for a Comprehensive Plan
amendment on nine acres from medium density residential to high density residential for
Biskay by Greg Johnson, to include all staff, application, and public testimony.
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second. Any discussion?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: This proposed Comp Plan amendment with its concept in the previous one,
the success of which, if we approve this, depends entirely on both parties being able to
communicate and agree to making their pieces of the property fit and work together,
Meridian City Council
September 23, 2008
Page 41 of 73
whether it be transportation or green space or pedestrian access or whatever. If, in fact,
this high density is the right thing for this location because of the potential retail
commercial that might be next to it, then, I sure don't want to see somebody living in
that area having to hop in their car to go to the grocery store or, God forbid, Walgreens.
De Weerd: That's an inside joke.
Rountree: That's an inside joke. So, I guess that's my advice, that it's got to work
together~or it's not going to go. Just my comment.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Rountree. Any further comment? Okay. We do have a
motion to approve. I will ask Madam Clerk to, please, call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Okay.
Rountree: And I guess for the public, I have nothing against Walgreens. I shop there
regularly.
De Weerd: I do, too. My husband has to pick up my prescriptions. Okay.
Bird: I think they are a great addition.
Item 20: Public Hearing: CPA 08-005 Request to amend the Comprehensive
Plan Future Land Use Map to change the land use designation on 33.59
acres of land from Industrial to Commercial for Kennedy Commercial
Center /Western Electronics by DBSI Meridian 184 LLC and Herman-
Treasure Valley Business Park ILLC -1250 W. Overland Road:
Item 21: Public Hearing: RZ 08-003 Request for Rezone of 27.17 acres from I-L
to C-G zone for Kennedy Commercial Center by DBSI Meridian 184 LLC
-1250 W. Overland Road:
De Weerd: Item 20 is a public hearing on CPA 08-005. I will open this public hearing
with staff comments.
Wafters: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the next project before you is the
Kennedy Commercial Center. It's located on the north side of Overland Road.
De Weerd: Okay. Excuse me, Sonya. I will open Item 21 as well for public hearing RZ
08-003, because I'm sure you will need to kind of cross -- cross on both these items.
Wafters: Yes.
Meridian City Council
September 23, 2008
Page 42 of 73
De Weerd: Okay.
Wafters: Kennedy Commercial Center is located on the north side of Overland Road,
south of Interstate 84, approximately a quarter mile east of Linder Road. This is an
aerial view of the property. This property right here was recently platted as Kennedy
Commercial Center. This is the existing Western Electronics building here. The
application before you is a Comp Plan amendment to change the land use designation
on 33.59 acres of land from industrial to commercial. All of this site is included in the
Comp Plan amendment application here. A concurrent application is a rezone request
for 27.17 acres of land to be rezoned from I-L, light industrial, to C-G, general retail and
service commercial. Only the portion previously platted as Kennedy Commercial Center
is proposed to be rezoned. So, this excludes the Westem Electronics property. A
conceptual site plan was submitted with the rezone request that shows how the property
proposed to be rezoned may develop in the future. The concept plan depicts 11
buildings proposed to consist of 5,500 square feet of restaurant, a 7,500 square foot
bank, 14,000 square feet of retail uses, 208,475 square feet of office uses and a 35,000
square foot adult education facility for the University of Phoenix. Pertinent development
agreement provisions that I'd like to mention. The first one is DA provision number two,
as modified by the Commission, reads as follows: The detailed site plan and building
elevations submitted with any Conditional Use Permit and/or certificate of zoning
compliance application for this site, will generally comply with the conceptual site plan
and include the materials found in the building elevations submitted to the city as shown
in Exhibits A.2 and A.3 of the staff report as amended herein and with the requirements
of the subject development agreement. The city acknowledges the ultimate owners and
users of each parcel within the property will be determined by market demand and,
therefore, the ultimate number and design of the buildings within the property may vary
from those contained in Exhibit A.2 and A.3. Construct a minimum of eight and a
maximum of 20 buildings on this site. The maximum total square footage for all
structures located within Kennedy Commercial Center Subdivision shall be limited to
324,570 square .feet, which is 120 percent of the square footage listed on the
conceptual site plan. No single building shall exceed 80,000 square feet without the
developer obtaining a Conditional Use Permit. Further, no building shall exceed three
stories in height. DA provision number five states the application shall comply with all
applicable previous conditions of approval for this site, including those associated with
CUP 01-009, PP 07-013, SP 07-036. The applicant -- staff would like to know that the
applicant has requested that that provision include the following wording, to the extent a
conditional -- a condition of approval and/or zoning determination for this site conflicts
with other conditions of approval and/or zoning determination for this site, the more
recent condition of approval and/or zone determination shall control. Staff has no
objection to the proposed change by the applicant. Last, DA provision number six
states the uses allowed pursuant to this agreement are those uses allowed in the C-G
zoning district listed in UDC Table 11-2B-2. The applicant has submitted conceptual
building elevations of the retail, restaurant, bank, single story, two story, and three story
office buildings and the school building. The Commission recommended approval of
the subject Comp Plan amendment and rezone application at their August 14th public
Meridian City Council
September 23, 2008
Page 43 of 73
hearing. Richard Andrus and Russ Merrill spoke in favor. No one spoke in opposition
or commented on the application. Richard Andrus submitted written testimony. Key
issues of discussion by the Commission were a concern about how 35 buildings as
proposed by the applicant would be situated on the property. The applicants request to
modify DA provision number two per the letter submitted by Richard Andrus and
discussion about limiting the maximum number of buildings on the site to 20, instead of
35, as requested by the applicant. Key changes to the staff recommendation were to
modify DA provision number two to allow up to 20 buildings to be constructed on the
site, instead of 14, as previously mentioned, and to modify DA provision further to reflect
other changes requested by the applicants. And those were all included in DA provision
number two that I just read. Outstanding issues for the City Council are that the Council
should determine if the Commission's recommended changes to the development
agreement, as noted on page 11 of the staff report, are appropriate. Additionally, the
Council should determine if a commercial land use designation and C-G zoning district
as requested is appropriate for this property. And I already mentioned that the applicant
was requesting DA provision number five and include an additional sentence, so
Council should include that in their motion if they wish to approve that. Staff will stand
for any questions that Council may have at this time.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, questions?
Rountree: I have none.
Bird: I have none at this point.
De Weerd: Okay. Is the applicant here?
Clark: Good evening, Madam Mayor and Members of the Council. My name is Hethe
Clark. I'm at 251 East Front Street in Boise. As an aside, my colleague Richard Andrus
had planned to be here, but he's presently in the hospital with his wife who is in labor.
So, I am pinch hitting for him.
De Weerd: What kind of excuse is that?
Clark: I know. That's pretty harsh. So, as you know, this is a rezone and Comp Plan
amendment request. We believe that -- and we want to thank staff for all the work that
they have put in throughout this application process. We have had a great relationship
with them and we feel like we have come to a -- we have been able to work out a lot of
the minor details that need to be worked out. We have been able to work through some
of these details that include the development agreement and some of that language.
And I would be happy to answer any questions that you might have about this proposed
change that we -- that Sonya discussed with -- with number five, which is on page 11 of
your staff report. But, generally speaking, we believe that this Comp Plan amendment
comports with the other planning that has gone on in this area. It's consistent with the
other commercial uses and it would allow for an important higher educational use to
come into the area that we believe would be a boom to the local economy and with that
Meridian City Council
September 23, 2008
Page 44 of 73
I believe we would not add too much and not take up too much more of your time,
unless you have any additional questions for either me or for Russ Merrill of DBSI, who
is here -- DBSI, of course, being the applicant.
De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Rountree: With the university being proposed to be on the site -- and this relates to the
zoning. I think in the DA on that we need some kind of a stipulation that if there is to be
any outside study areas, teaching areas, or whatever, that they be on the south side of
the building and if -- and to preclude any outside use on the interstate side, strictly for
noise and noise abatement purposes, unless they want to build a noise abatement wall,
as opposed to having the tax payers build one at some future date. So, that would be
my concem with an educational facility adjacent to the interstate and I guess I think the
building codes would address the sound proofing of the building, because it's an
extremely noisy site.
Clark: Madam Mayor and Council Member Rountree, I have Russ Merrill here with me,
who may be able to provide some additional detail on that point to you, but I'm not sure
if you were trying to solicit any sort of these particular plans with that question.
Rountree: I guess my comments are that we need to be aware of that and we need to
accommodate that in the development agreement and you need to be aware that that
would be a condition.
De Weerd: We do have a representative from that university, should you want more
detail.
Rountree: You bet.
Bach: Bill Bach. I live at 3011 North Rin, Meridian. I am the director of the University
of Phoenix here in Meridian. With respect to your concem, I appreciate that and thank
you for bringing that to our attention. We do not have any plans or anticipate teaching
outside on any side of the building at this point. I mean we might have a birthday party
at some point, but no plans to teach outside and we will take what you said into
consideration.
Rountree: Thank you.
Bach: Thank you.
De Weerd: It would be hard to celebrate a birthday with the traffic noise, unless you
wanted to hide the age, you know. Okay. Any other questions?
Meridian City Council
September 23, 2008
Page 45 of 73
Rountree: I -have none.
De Weerd: Any other comments from the applicant?
Clark: Nothing further from the applicant. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Council -- I'm sorry. Is there anyone else that would like
to provide testimony on this application? Okay. Okay. Council, seeing no further
information desired by the Council or comments from the applicant or the public, I would
entertain a motion to close the public hearing.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we close the public hearing on CPA 08-005 and RZ 08-003.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to close the public hearings on Items
20 and 21. All those in favor say. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Okay. Any discussion? If not, I would entertain a motion on Item 20.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I would just make acomment -- and this is something that's discussed at the
Planning and Zoning Commission and I think Council has discussed it before. First, let
me say I do think this is appropriate and I'm in favor of it, but be aware that we are
running out of land that's designated as industrial and I guess somewhere along the line
we need to make a decision about whether we want any industrial in our mix. There are
reasons that certainly the railroad track sounds like it should have industrial around it,
but we keep finding reasons to change that. The interstate probably makes sense to
have industrial around it, but we keep finding reasons to change that. And in the mix I
think we are having a good mix of residential and commercial and, as I say, I believe
this project is appropriate, it's just we need to keep in mind as we chew away the
industrial, we need to start thinking about whether we really want to defend it at some
places or not. Just a comment.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
Meridian City Council
September 23, 2008
Page 46 of 73
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I'll address that, because I have some confusion about that myself. And
anymore I have a hard time discerning the difference between commercial and
industrial, given that we are moving to or have become a service oriented economy. To
me, the University of Phoenix, if you will, is -- or education in particular, is as much an
industry as one might think of a steel foundry. They aren't in the planning and zoning
books together, but they provide jobs, they are sustainable, they are good for the
community.
De Weerd: They are producing a product.
Rountree: They do produce a product. A product that we really and truly need. Now, I
won't say a steel foundry is good for the community, but Imean Ihave a -- I struggle
with that, David, and I agree with what you're saying, but I think we need to address that
as a community. What -- what brings jobs to our community? What's sustainable for
our community? As opposed to what in my mind's eye -- and I think probably in yours
as well -- is what industry was, but what has it become. I mean I hear a lot about we
need this industrial ground, but I don't see us building too many engine blocks, I don't
see us building too many airplanes, I don't see us -- even the electronics fabrication,
you don't see a lot of new. But is software an industry? I don't know. I think so. But I
think it probably could locate in a commercial area in the City of Meridian. Maybe.
Anna and I might disagree about that point, but -- I mean I think we need to address that
in our -- in our Planning and Zoning guidelines.
De Weerd: It certainly is a discussion that we need to have, if you look at some of the
projects that are coming in for economic development referral, they are looking for
existing shell and core and that's a heck of an investment risk to put a shell and core
sitting there empty waiting for someone to, hopefully, land in it, until the city and the
state can come up with some kind of incentive to have those facilities available, that's
just not going to happen. And I think that your statement that some of the new -- new
industries are -- Meridian is not going to attract the heavy manufacturing. It's not
something that is conducive to the land that we have and being the center of the
Treasure Valley. We do have quite a substantial amount of industrial -light industrial
office type in the Ten Mile area specific plan and we do hope that that -that plan in and
of itself will be something that can attract industry to invest in that area. I, too, kind of
hoped around DBSI you would have additional businesses similar to Western
Electronics, which is just a great employer and industry that we have in Meridian, but I
know they have been trying to market it as such and unless you can have a shell and
core sitting there empty for a number of years waiting for the right buyer -kind of like
the Jabil building. Until the school district bought it, no one wanted it, and it seemed like
after they bought it there were all kinds of buyers who were going to go in there. So, it's
really -- it's a crap shoot. But if there are different industries we want to attract, we need
to figure out how to bring them in. Any further comments from Council? Okay. We do
have a motion, if I remember right. No?
Meridian City Council
September 23, 2008
Page 47 of 73
Zaremba: I didn't really make one, but I would be happy to.
De Weerd: Well -- okay. I just made a motion out of what you said.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor, I move that we approve Item 20 and 21, CPA 08-005 and RZ
08-003, to include all staff and public comments, including the requested change to the
development agreement provision five. We didn't discuss this, but I want to add one
element to it. I am accepting the change that the applicant is requesting, but I would
add one additional sentence and that is that Meridian's planning administrator, the P8Z
director, will determine if there is a conflict between earlier and later provisions. End of
motion.
De Weerd: Do I have a second?
Rountree: I'll second that.
De Weerd: Okay. Do we have discussion? Was the motion clear?
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Zaremba and
Council Member Rountree, I suppose. Did -- did all staff and applicant comments
include adding a DA provision that says any outdoor area for the proposed education
facility shall be on the south side of the building?
Zaremba: The applicant said they don't intend to do that, but I think it would probably
be wise to -- you know, uses change over the next hundred years and it probably would
be wise to include that in the development agreement as well.
De Weerd: Second agree?
Rountree: I agree.
De Weerd: Okay. If there is no further discussion, Madam Clerk.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: Okay. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Okay. Before I open the public hearing on Item 22, we will take a five
minute break.
(Recess.)
Item 22: Public Hearing: CPA 08-001 Request to amend the Comprehensive
Plan Future Land Use Map to change the land use designation of 15.46
Meridian City Council
September 23, 2008
Page 48 of 73
acres of land from Medium Density Residential to Mixed Use -Community
for Janicek Ten Mile /Chinden Property by Janicek Properties, LLC -
Southwest Comer of North Ten Mile Road and West Chinden Boulevard:
De Weerd: Okay. I will go ahead and bring this meeting to order again. We are on
Item 22, on public hearing CPA 08-001. I will open this public hearing with staff
comments.
Wafters: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the next project before you is the
Janicek application. This is the zoning map here. It's located on the southwest comer
of Chinden, State Highway 20-26, and Ten Mile Road. This is an aerial view of .the
property. Currently vacant agricultural land. The application before you is a request for
a Comprehensive Plan amendment to change the land use designation on 15.46 acres
of land from medium density residential to mixed use community. You can see on the
overhead here this is the current Comprehensive Plan designation here and this is the
proposed designation and the surrounding designated land. The applicant did submit a
concept plan showing how the property may develop in the future with one multi-tenant
retail building, consisting of 12,808 square feet and one big box retail building,
consisting of 50,180 square feet, fronting on Chinden Boulevard. Four retail office
buildings, consisting of 2,853 square foot each fronting on Ten Mile Road. And 39
multi-family residential units at the southwest comer of the site behind the commercial
uses. Access for the side is depicted from one full access driveway to Chinden
Boulevard and one full access driveway to Ten Mile. No development is proposed at
this time. A note here to the Council. The concept plan does not comply with our
standards for access to a state highway here on Highway 20-26. The applicant did not
submit building elevations for this property at this time. The Commission recommended
approval of the subject application at its August 14th public hearing. Becky McKay
testified in favor of the application. There was no opposing or commenting testimony on
that night. Written testimony was submitted by Christian Buhler. Key issues of
discussion by the Commission was the proposed location of commercial uses at the
intersection, rather than the half mile, as depicted on the future land use map and the
effecf on traffic flow. If property is developed as a mixed use development, access to
Chinden should be prohibited and connectivity to the Bainbridge development should be
provided and the appropriateness of a mixed use designation for this property with the
high traffic flow that will result on Ten Mile from construction of the Ten Mile
interchange. Changes to the staff recommendation by the Commission. The
Commission recommended approval of the subject Comp Plan amendment request to
change the future land use map designation to mixed use community and outstanding
issues for the Council is the appropriateness of a mixed use community designation for
this property. Staff will stand for any questions that Council may have at this time.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none, Mayor, at this time.
De Weerd: Okay. Is the applicant here? Twice in one night.
Meridian City Council
September 23, 2008
Page 49 of 73 '
McKay: What's that?
De Weerd: Twice in one night.
McKay: I'm sorry. I apologize. I do have to say one thing.
De Weerd: First say your name and address.
McKay: Becky McKay. Engineering Solutions. 1029 North Rosario, Meridian. I'm
representing Mr. Janicek on this particular application. I have been sitting there for 16
years and I'm starting to really get stressed about the move to the new City Hall. You
know, I have been sitting there so long I thought eventually I'd get my name on the
chair, but now I have to start all over.
Rountree: After October 15th we will put your name on that one, okay?
McKay: Oh. Okay. Thank you. Oh, crud. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, we
submitted this Comp Plan map amendment -- if you could do the vicinity map. There
we go. Thank you. On this particular 15.5 acres right here. Just to kind of give you a
little bit of history on this particular property, Brad and Louann Janicek own 220 acres
here, which included that 15. They sold 205 acres to Brighton, retained the 15 acres.
In their contract with Brighton there was a provision in there that said that Brighton
would assist them when they were developing or obtaining their approvals for the
Bainbridge project. Two, to get that comer parcel designated some type of a
commercial designation. Initially Bainbridge came in and it did include this area. The
staff indicated at the time that the commercial designation here wasn't in compliance
with the Comp Plan, since that was designated medium density residential. And so,
therefore, they needed to eliminate that area from their request or come in with a Comp
Plan map amendment. So, Mr. Turnbull at the time decided that he would go ahead
and cut off here at this collector roadway and, then, leave this area out, including the 15
acres that Mr. Janicek owned. So, the Bainbridge project was approved on the
remaining area. The Janiceks have sat and waited patiently. Obviously, this is served
by the new Black Cat trunk, waiting for services to come towards them and, obviously,
to be contiguous to the city limits, which the city limits are right here at the proposed
Irvine Subdivision. We looked at different concepts. We worked with the staff, met with
them multiple times and came up with some various -- you can put the site plan up.
Some different types of site plans. The staff encouraged us to come in with a mixed
plan, if we were going to request mixed use community and so that's what you see here.
We kind of had a retail component here. We have townhomes here with attached
garages there on the green. We got plaza's e a little plaza gathering place, play
equipment and so forth and, then, we have an office component. We aligned with the
future roadway here to the east on Irvine. This is Ten Mile. This is Highway 20-26. It
was my client's desire to show this access point here. It is in alignment with Double
Eagle. Obviously, your ordinance does not promote the Comprehensive Plan, it would
not be approved without ITD approval or a variance from the Council. The -- one of the
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September 23, 2008
Page 50 of 73
things that the Comp Plan talks about is interconnectivity. We did meet with Brighton.
met with Mr. Wardle and I met with David Tumbull. They reviewed our site plan. They
stated that I could go on the record that they were supportive of our Comp Plan map
amendment to mixed use community. They are currently working on some ideas for the
property that surrounds us from the west and on the south and he recommended that
we have townhomes versus some other type of multi-family component. He thought
that would work best and be most compatible with what they are proposing. They don't
know -- they know it will be a residential component around us, but they don't know
what type. It definitely he said will not be detached single family dwellings. Mr. Tumbull
indicated he's not objecting to some vehicular pedestrian connections, but he does not
want to make a commitment until they finalize their site plan. So, it is our intention that
we will make a vehicular connection and a pedestrian connection. We have got a lot of
pedestrian access and pathways around the periphery and so we didn't want to dictate
that location to him, we are waiting for them to come up with it. As far as this
connection here, this roadway could, obviously, come in and, then, go westward. I don't
want the Council to, obviously, get hung up on that approach to Highway 20-26, since
that is kind of a hot button. The Commission did approve this four to one. Their
comment was we like what's proposed, with the exception of the street connection to
Highway 20-26. We have incorporated a lot of pedestrian friendly crossings through
here. You can see the pedestrian -- this is like -- it would be kind of like an elevated
stamped area to bring people from the west into the commercial uses. One of the
things that we looked at is, obviously, they are working on the comdor study for 20-26.
Eventually we know that will be five lanes. With the medium density residential
designation that's currently on this, we don't feel that that is appropriate when this is
going to be five lanes and we know that the Ten Mile interchange is going to take place.
And the trips are going to skyrocket on Ten Mile as soon as the interchange is
constructed. And here this property is at the comer. One of the things I wanted to
mention was the fact that I worked on the Renaissance Apartments on Highway 20-26
at Boise Research Center. In that instance we placed three story buildings next to 20-
26, in the belief that they would create a sound buffer for Hobble Creek and, then, ITD
told me that when they went in to do the improvements to five lanes through there, they
had to compensate them for noise damages and that was based on federal matching
funds and because they were closer than 200 feet to the edge of the new improved
roadway, they had to give them damages. So, I think for medium density residential to
be right up here at this intersection would be a definite mistake and that's why we are
here asking for mixed use community. We will, obviously, have to come back through
with annexation. Everything in the mixed use designation is a conditional use, so that
the Council would, obviously, have the opportunity to look at the mix of our uses, the
vehicular patterns and the pedestrian interconnectivity. The other thing I'd like to
mention is I worked on Madison Park Subdivision at the comer of Eagle Road and
McMillan. At the time that I did that project Eagle Road was a two lane rural state
highway. We really didn't think that far ahead. And every time I stood at that
intersection at the signal I kick myself for backing single family dwellings up to Eagle
Road there at the intersection and I guess what I'm asking the Council is I don't want to
make the same mistake twice. We have got to look ahead. This is going to be five
lanes. This is going to carry, you know, 30, 40, 50 thousand vehicle trips. It's going to
Meridian City Council
September 23, 2008
Page 51 of 73
be another Eagle Road and I guess I'd like the Council to ask yourself, you know, would
I want to live at that intersection. I think the question is - or the answer is no. The
residential component tucked in here adjacent to Brighton, making interconnectivity, but
yet having some type of a commercial buffer and, then, an office buffer here we think
makes sense. And the Commission thought that it makes sense. This designation
doesn't guarantee us anything. All we are doing, you know, is asking fora re-
designation. We will be back here so you guys can look at the details. We hope that
the Council looks at this as just an example and doesn't get hung up on the specifics of
it. In closing, the Comp Plan land use map is a living changing document and that's
why the state law allows you guys to come in every six months and reevaluate these
uses and we believe this makes sense and we have the support of Brighton. .They think
that this makes sense. And we ask you to approve this as mixed use community. Do
you have any questions?
De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: I have none.
De Weerd: Thank you.
McKay: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Is there any member of the public who would like to provide
testimony on this application? Okay. Council, if there is no further comments or
questions, I would entertain a motion.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we close the public hearing on CPA 08-001.
Hoaglun: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second on Item 22 to close it. All those in favor say
aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Meridian City Council
September 23, 2008
Page 52 of 73
Bird: I guess nobody else wants to talk, I move we approve CPA 08-001 and include all
staff, applicant, and public testimony.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to approve Item 22. Is there any
discussion?
Zaremba: Discussion.
De Weerd: Yes.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor, I would just add the thought that agreeing with the
Comprehensive Plan amendment does not mean that we agree with access to Chinden.
Just as a waming.
De Weerd: I'm sure that waming has been heeded.
Rountree: And, again, Madam Mayor, I'll restate that the success or downfall of this is
gong to depend on how well it's coordinated with the surrounding property and, again,
not looking at the concept plan, but the interconnectivity, the functionality has got to be
consistent throughout that whole comer.
De Weerd: Thank you. Any further discussion? Madam Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: Okay. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 23: Public Hearing: CPA 08-007 Request for Comprehensive Plan
Amendment to modify the Future Land Use Map by changing the land 'use
designation from Medium Density Residential to Mixed Use -Community
for approximately 10 acres for Zamaows Chinden by JR, LLC -south
side of Chinden Boulevard, approximately'/ mile east of Meridian Road:
De Weerd: Item 23 is a public hearing on CPA 08-007. I will open this public hearing
with staff comments.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is the Zamzows Chinden project.
It's located on the south side of Chinden Boulevard or State Highway 20-26,
approximately a quarter mile east of Meridian Road at 545 East Chinden Boulevard.
The application before you tonight is a Comprehensive Plan amendment. The
applicant's request the Council amend the Comprehensive Plan future land use map by
changing the land use designation on approximately ten acres of land from medium
Meridian City Council
September 23, 2008
Page 53 of 73
density residential to mixed use community. Although the applicant has not submitted
an annexation or development application, the applicant has submitted a conceptual
development plan showing how the site may develop in the future. In addition to
retaining the existing business, additional retail businesses and residential uses are
shown on the concept plan. Access to and from the site is proposed from one full
access driveway on Chinden Boulevard, located approximately in the middle of the
property and one shared driveway located at the west property line. This does not
comply with our standards for access to state highways. This is, obviously, the site of
the existing Zamzows on Chinden. I guess I should have stated that previously. The
Commission recommendation was approval at their August 14th, 2008, hearing. Darin
Eisenbarth and Doug Zamzow spoke in favor of the application and no one spoke in
opposition, commented, or provided written testimony. The key issues of discussion by
the Commission were the access to State Highway 20-26, the past and current
Comprehensive Plan future land use map designation for this property and adjacent
land uses and feasibility of vehicular interconnectivity. The key Commission changes to
staffs initial recommendation -- staff had recommended denial. The Commission is
recommending approval. The Commission feels like mixed use community is an
appropriate land use designation for this property, given the current and long term use
and based on the concept site plan submitted. Outstanding issues for City Council.
There are currently two full access driveways to Chinden Boulevard, a state highway,
on this property. If the Comp Plan amendment is approved, a variance to allow access
points for commercial development will most likely be requested by the applicant in the
future when the owner requests annexation. Currently there are no other city approved
access point driveways to Chinden Boulevard, except public streets at the mid mile.
Staff believes access to Chinden should be prohibited to the site in the future once
annexed, as Chinden should be preserved as a transit corridor. The land use and
associated access points shown on the applicant's concept plan do not further this goal.
The Council should determine if mixed use community is an appropriate land use for the
property. The second outstanding issue is the applicant has submitted a letter
requesting reimbursement of the fees paid for this application and we have received no
additional testimony since the staff report. With that I'll answer any questions Council
may have.
De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: What's the basis for requesting of the refund of fees?
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, if you look on the lower left-hand
comer, you will notice the neighborhood center designation and this is the Zamzow
property. When Hightower -- Hightower? Is that the right name? When the
development came in along this comer, the -- we shifted the location of the
neighborhood center in order to line up the road with the street across the street. We
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September 23, 2008
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made note of that during the public hearing. We actually didn't process a variance
request, because ITD said that they were going to acknowledge that new road as the
half mile. Not truly at the half mile. We needed to shift it. When we shifted it -- this was
during the north Meridian area plan discussion. When that shifted, Mr. Hawkins-Clark
and I looked at the area, we tried to evaluate what was the appropriate action to take.
We were concerned with continuing the existing commercial use on Chinden because of
the access requirements that they would need to Chinden. So, as part of the north
Meridian area plan, this neighborhood center shifted and just became the one property
in this area and, then, the other properties became medium density residential. So, the
applicant is requesting the -- that the fee be returned to them based on having a former
Comprehensive Plan designation as a neighborhood center.
De Weerd: What was the public process at that time?
Canning: It was a large scale Comprehensive Plan amendment. We did do the
required noticing through public notice. It's largely public service announcements, as
well as newspaper articles, whatever press we could get and, then, we notified
individual property owners I think with 20 acres or more with written notice, but written
notice was not required on a large scale Comprehensive Plan amendment. There was
more than 200 properties involved, so individual notice is not required.
De Weerd: Thank you. Any further questions from Council?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Would the applicant like to come forward. Good evening.
Eisenbarth: How are you. My name is Darin Eisenbarth, I'm the president of Zamzows.
My address is 307 Winther Boulevard, Nampa, Idaho.. What we are actually asking is
what was stated is actually to return our designation back to us. This property was
originally developed 17 years ago as a garden center and we purchased the property
about five years ago. The preliminary site plan or -- it was actually drawn up when we --
right after we purchased the property. We met with the planning department, we told
them what our ultimate use we thought for the property and what they thought and they
said, yeah, that works great, you're in a neighborhood town center, mixed use would fit
with our plan and so we actually had this drawn up then. When we were in the process
of developing our Overland property and going through that annexation and rezone, we
were in and we just looked up and noticed that our designation on the Comp Plan had
changed and we asked what happened to our designation and they said, well, it didn't
fit. We moved it -- we moved it farther east. It fit with another property owner better.
Okay. And I'm not saying -- I guess we should have noticed the notices e we should
have something, but, you know, we own five -- we operate five businesses -- or four
businesses and another rental property in Meridian, a simple phone call would have --
hey, do you realize that this is going to affect your property and the future use of your
property would have been nice. I understand it's probably not required in the law, but if
you can go back to the current Comp Plan, what they are saying is is that if you were
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split that -- cut the section in half and flip it back over, they are saying that that's an
appropriate use for that property on the right half side, but it's not an appropriate use on
the left-hand side. So, in making us a medium density residential, we butt up against
both sides. We have Holy Apostle Church to the west and, then, we have the -- I
believe it's Zion Lutheran Church to the east. So, there is two commercial properties --
or quasi-commercial properties there already and so we feel that mixed use is a great
transition in between the two commercial properties on each side and, then, we have
true mixed use in the back through some higher density residential property to the back,
which will buffer into what will ultimately be residential property behind us. So, we feel
it's a good transition and feel what we are trying to do is fulfill the original request of us,
which was to be an actual town center, which is a mixed use, and we feel we have done
that. As far as accesses to Chinden, we are not requesting any additional -- any
additional access to Chinden, just the one that~Vve already have and we have had for 17
years. If that was taken from us, we actually would be landlocked at that time. So, we
would be unable to operate our business. So, I realize that it's normally the Planning
Department's -- they don't like to see commercial access through residential and so
unless they would negotiate an easement for us with another property owner from
behind, we literally would be landlocked and sitting out there ourself. So, what we are
requesting is not really anything that doesn't already fit the property and hasn't fit it for
17 years, it's actually just to take us back to what we originally were and what we feel is
the best use of the property. That's why we are requesting also the reversal of the fees,
because we are still a little dumbfounded on why this decision was made. We feel the
decision was made because it fit another property owner, so our designation was
actually taken from us to facilitate another property owner farther to the east and, then,
it leaves us to just, I don't know, figure out -- you know, tear a building down and
establish residential property or something. And even at that, residential for that --
straight residential, medium density, would not be a good fit for that property abutting
two other commercial properties on each side with the state highway to the north, so --
De Weerd: I think staff said why it was shifted, it was shifted because of the lining up
with the access point to the north and it made sense to shift over. It wasn't to
accommodate one property owner, it was also to integrate the land use and the
transportation to be more cohesive than disconnected.
Eisenbarth: I guess I can understand that, but I would ask why, then, was our
designation taken away from us. I can understand expanding it and saying this is an
appropriate use for this piece of property, but I can't understand taking it away from a
business that's been there for 17 years and saying that is no longer an appropriate use
for that property that's been there for 17 years. You know, I can understand expanding
it, I can't see taking it away in that way, I guess is my problem. And I absolutely believe
that everything was done, you know, legally. That's not my contention at all.
De Weerd: Council, questions for the applicant?
Bird: I have none.
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September 23, 2008
Page 56 of 73
Rountree: I don't have any.
De Weerd: I guess, Anna, we have had a lot of discussion tonight with the other
applicants that -- that are looking for Comprehensive Plan change amendments and
saying how will this connect to your neighbors, yet I think I heard the applicant say we
would have to obtain the easements for them. Did you have these discussions on that
particular thing, how they would work with the back-age connectivity? I think the church
is their -- to the west --
Canning: Madam Mayor, I'm not sure I understand the question. You mean in 2002 or
so when --
De Weerd: No. Even when they were making this application with the suggested land
use.
Canning: Okay. Go to the site plan. My understanding is I think they share a driveway
currently on the west side of the property, I believe, with the church; is that correct, Mr.
Eisenbarth?
Eisenbarth: I don't believe it's a recorded easement that we have, but we do share
access on that side of the property. Our main access to the property is in the -- is in the
center. We do have access off of that side, but that is -- that is their property.
Canning: And, then, the other access -- the cross-access points would need to be
negotiated in the future, I believe. I don't believe they currently share cross-access with
the property to the east.
Eisenbarth: I can tell you that we have had -- that won't happen with that -- Mr. Gupe
who owns that property in the back. He's very adamant -- as a matter of fact, he put up
a fence to stop us from actually accessing off of that on that side and he's not amenable
to that whatsoever.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor? Anna, if we could go to that Comp Plan map that was back a
couple -- right here. Darin, what are the -- your facility is right there?
Eisenbarth: Yes.
Hoaglun: Okay. So, what property do you own, then? Is it that area right through there
or --that would be a better --
Eisenbarth: No. Our property is right there.
Hoaglun: Just that property.
Eisenbarth: Yeah. There is ten acres there and that was actually -- if you see, there
was 40 acres that were split 20 some years ago.
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September 23, 2008
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Hoaglun: And, then, Madam Mayor, follow up probably for staff. Then, I see an
asterisk. Is that -- do we have a potential park or somewhere in that vicinity?
Canning: Council Member Hoaglun, those -- those parks, yes, they float.
Hoaglun: Okay.
Canning: But it's located --
De Weerd: Floating parks.
Canning: There is one generally in each section.
Hoaglun: Okay. So -- to follow up, Madam Mayor and Darin, then, your proposal --
when Isee that other plan, there is a concept plan, that is just for that -- that property
right here. Here we go.
Eisenbarth: It is.
Hoaglun: Right there.
Eisenbarth: You know, we would be very willing to work and we spoke with the property
owners that are just to the south of us. That's farmland back there now. And we would
be very willing to work with them and to work with the church on cross-access at all. I
don't believe going east that there is really any chance for a negotiation on that at all.
But we spoke with -- you know, because we would like to get annexed into the city and
we spoke with the church, I believe, who has been speaking with the Planning
Department about being annexed and with that the people directly behind us. At this
time I don't know that they want to go in because of the difference in taxes. They don't
have any current plans to develop, they want to keep this farmland. So, right now our
only -- our only access to Chinden and that's the only thing that Ican -- you know, in the
conceivable near future that I could ever plan on. And, then, accessing commercial
through residential would -- I don't think would ever be in anybody's best interest.
De Weerd: Well, I just will say a little editorial is I frequent your business often and it is
extremely dangerous getting out on Chinden. Chinden is so busy anymore, it is hard to
make alert-hand tum out of your parking lot. It's -- with the church as well with the
soccer field they have around there. That area it is -- it is -- our goal is to consolidate
and try and get those access points reduced and consolidated. So, looking for those
opportunities and certainly as you heard with almost every other application tonight that
was along a state highway, is, you know, the access and I think I remember that on a
number of those businesses along Chinden, those are temporary and we do hope that
they will go away at some point, because they have -- our biggest -- our biggest
responsibility is public safety and continuing some of those access without signalization
is an accident waiting to happen and I think our police department could probably speak
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September 23, 2008
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to a lot of that, with the speed that people are traveling and encouraging more trips
going out of that access, it's -- I don't know if it's responsible. So, you know, that's my --
for what it's worth -- comment as we have made similar ones along the way tonight.
Accesses are very --atop concern along the state highways.
Eisenbarth: And we can understand that. Currently we are operating as a growing
store and employ 12 people. You know, it hasn't been an issue. As I look at the staffs
report, ITD has no -- in their ten year plan I believe they are not showing any
development into that -into five lanes and they don't have any money. Their statement
is they don't have any money to do it and they don't see it happening in the near future,
so -- I understand. It wouldn't be our goal to have an access into our property that was
dangerous either. Right now the problem is the way it --
De Weerd: You don't have any other choice.
Eisenbarth: We don't have any other choice, you know, but we do understand that.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Okay. This is a public hearing. Is there any further
public testimony? Seeing none, Council, any further information needed? Okay. I'd
entertain a motion to close the public hearing, if you so desire.
Bird: Everybody sure they don't need anymore?
De Weerd: I can't make the motion.
Rountree: Go ahead and make the motion.
Bird: Okay. I move we close CPA 08-007.
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing on Item 23. All
those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carves.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any discussion, further information desired from staff?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor, discussion.
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I don't have any problem with it --
De Weerd: If you can speak up a little bit more.
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September 23, 2008
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Zaremba: I'm song. I don't have any problem with it being mixed use community. I can
see how that would be appropriate. And I can understand their point about that's,
essentially, what they thought they had to begin with and why are they having to apply
to get it back, but I would also add that I'm not sold on permanent forever access to
Chinden there. Somewhere along there we need to make other arrangements.
De Weerd: Okay.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I have the same feelings that Council Zaremba has regarding -- I have no problem
with it going back to --
De Weerd: If you will move closer to --
Bird: -- to medium -- or to mixed use community egress-ingress, which it has nothing to
do with our Comprehensive Plan amendment, I guess we take care of that if and when
they decide to develop it. That would be my -- I don't think we 'are asked right now to --
to look at what kind of a site they are going to have. They give us a conception. I, too,
am like you, I cannot see that -- right now I could not see that being anything but aright-
in and right-out, so -- but that's not what we are voting on.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Bird.
Rountree: Madam Mayor. My comment is everything we have seen tonight is having
adjacent property that's either been planned or in the process of being planned. This
one has adjacent properties that are already there, with the exception of the
undeveloped properties that are around it. We don't know what's going to happen.
Access is an issue. I just think it's -- if we change it tonight, we are probably going to
change it again in the future. I don't see it working and I would say let -- I mean my
position is not to make any changes in the Comprehensive Plan at this point in time.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: My thoughts on this -- down the road I don't see it working as a medium
density -- medium density residential. I'm kind of like Councilman Rountree, you know,
what will it be in the future. It might be mixed use, but that's going to be incumbent
upon the current owner or future owner to be working with some adjacent property
owners on how to make it work. It's a unique situation where he's got a business, he
needs to operate his business, and -- but down the road when that road changes even
more -- that time will come, but what will it be and how will we make it work -- 1 suppose
that's -- when the details come in and we will see what we have got and what they have
Meridian City Council
September 23, 2008
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done with -- with their neighbors to -- to make something work. I'm not opposed to
changing it now. However, I think there is some things there that President Rountree
had mentioned that we might be changing again.
De Weerd: Thank you, Council. Just sensing there is a possibility for a tie, but, you
know, I -- I just recall what our last applicant saying about the use along Chinden and
residential is not necessarily desired. The business is a desired buffer and transition
between a pretty major transportation corridor and housing. So, I think it makes sense.
It makes sense today and who knows what will happen when they do bring in a plan, if it
makes sense, and as you stated to most of the other applicants tonight, we want to see
how it interacts with the surrounding property. So, just so you know the direction I'm
going is -- in case I do break a tie. But sometimes I like to feel useful, so --
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I would add a comment that the city of Eagle, which is on the other side of
Chinden from us at this point, if I'm picturing the right area, does have a residential
project there, but they have a berm that is, what, 20 feet high and probably three acres
wide and, you know, there is not that much property available on this side to do that
kind of a berm.
De Weerd: They put in their sound wall.
Zaremba: Yeah.
Bird: I'll guarantee you it isn't medium density.
De Weerd: No.
Zaremba: But I don't think there is the opportunity to do that kind of sound protection on
this side, so I, for one, don't see residential as the future of this property.
De Weerd: Council?
Zaremba: In which case let me float a motion.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Zaremba: See where it goes. I move that we approve CPA 08-007, a change in the
land use designation from medium density residential to mixed use community. Along
with that approving the reimbursement of the fees paid for the application and adding
the caveat that we are not approving access to Chinden.
Bird: Second.
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September 23, 2008
Page 61 of 73
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to approve Item 23. Any further
discussion? Madam Clerk, will you, please, call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, nay; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: Thank you. Three ayes, one nay. Motion passes.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE NAY.
Item 24: Public Hearing: CPA 08-006 Request to amend the Comprehensive
Plan Future Land Use Map to change the future land use designation on
11 acres of land from Mixed Use -Waste Water Treatment Plan to Office
(2+/- acres) and Low Density Residential (9+/- acres) for Kartchner by
Richard Kartchner - 4325 and 4315 North Ten Mile Road:
De Weerd: Okay. Item 24 is a public hearing on CPA 08-006. I will open this public
hearing with staff comments.
Wafters: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the next item before you is the
Kartchner Application. The property is located on the west side of Ten Mile Road.
De Weerd: Is your mike on?
Wafters: Yes, it is.
De Weerd: Okay. You want to put it closer to you.
Wafters: The property consists of two tax parcels located at 4315 and 4325 North Ten
Mile Road, on the west side of Ten Mile, approximately a third of a mile south of
McMillan Road. This is an aerial view of the property. There are two existing homes,
one on each parcel. One's right here, one's right there. Kartchner and the Rassmussen
properties. The applicant is requesting a Comprehensive Plan amendment to change
the land use designation on 11 acres of land from mixed use wastewater treatment
plant to office, approximately two acres, and low density residential, approximately nine
acres. This is the current Comprehensive Plan map here. It shows the subject
property. Here is the proposed amended Comprehensive Plan map. A conceptual site
plan was submitted with the Comp Plan amendment that shows how the property may
develop in the future with 17 single family residential building lots back here on the rear
of the property, one commercial office building lot, with four office retail buildings, and
one common area lot. Staff would like to note that retail uses would not be allowed in
areas designated for office uses, although they would be allowed in the current
wastewater treatment plant mixed use designation. Access to the site is proposed from
a public street via a public access driveway from North Ten Mile Road. No
development is proposed at this time. The applicant has submitted building elevations
for the proposed residential units. They are here in the comers of this concept plan. No
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September 23, 2008
Page 62 of 73
building elevations were submitted for the commercial portion. The Commission
recommended denial of this application at their August 14 public hearing. Richard
Kartchner and Brent Rasmussen spoke in favor of the application. No one opposed or
commented on the application. Richard Kartchner did submit written testimony with a
petition with ten signatures on it. Key issues of discussion by Commission were if the
Comp Plan amendment is approved, a note could be placed on the plat making future
property owners aware of possible noise and/or odor issues associated with the site,
because of the proximity of the treatment plant. The effect is that prevailing winds and
noise and/or odor generated by the treatment plant in this area. The increase of noise
and odor with future expansion of the treatment plant and the effect on properties within
the treatment plant designated area. And hesitant to recommend approval of a
residential development in this area without a development agreement to tie the
developer to a specific development plan. The Commission did not make any changes
to the staff recommendation of denial for this project. Staff took into consideration
largely the odor and noise assessment that was prepared in 2004 for the wastewater
treatment plant designated area in staffs recommendation. The subject property is
within the area that is affected by the odor generated from the treatment plant.
Outstanding issues for the Council. The Council should determine if a map amendment
for mixed use wastewater treatment plant to office and low density residential is
appropriate for this property. With that, staff will stand for any questions the Council
may have.
De Weerd: Council, any questions for staff?
Bird: Not at this time, Mayor.
De Weerd: Okay.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Not really a question for staff, but a comment. This looks familiar to me and
my recollection is that the applicant has talked to me about this. I would have promised
the applicant only that I would be open minded.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. We hope you're always open minded.
Zaremba: I try to be.
De Weerd: Is the applicant here? Good evening.
Kartchner: Madam Mayor, Councilmen, Richard Kartchner, 4325 North Ten Mile in
Meridian.
De Weerd: Thank you.
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September 23, 2008
Page 63 of 73
Kartchner: I don't know exactly what to say, except that I will be very brief. The staff
and the Commission denied this, basically, because of their concem of odor and noise
on the property being in the wastewater treatment plant designated area and I want to
point out that there are basically -- I mean there is no odor or noise problem on this
piece of property. I have shown you -- I submitted a letter that states that -- and has
been backed up by our neighbors on both sides -- do you have an overview of that
again, so I can just identify that? These -- everybody on both sides of us who were
petitioned and all signed that petition stating that they have never heard any noise on
the property and signed the petition stating as much and only have smelled a little bit of
odor every once in awhile. On still calm nights occasionally they will smell a little odor.
Probably no more than you smell from your neighbor's dogs once in awhile. Very small
amount of odor ever on this property. And so our contention is that that is not an issue
and not being an issue shouldn't be an -issue with the Council or the Commissioners
either in approving a request for a change. The staff report itself indicates that noise --
it wasn't even considered and I agree that the -- that this study that was done was a
good study for the purpose that it was done, to give you some general idea of what
needed to happen in the area was important, but when you look at the application of
that study on this particular piece of property, the property falls outside of any of the
concerns of the report and so we don't feel that the study supports the need or the proof
that there is any odor or noise problem and intrinsic proof says that there is not any. I
have lived there for 20 years and have no problem with it. Have never heard a noise
and very -- like I say, very seldom smelled any noise and the concem from the Council
and the staff has been that if we expand that treatment plant, then, by doing so it's going
to expand the noise and the odor onto this piece of property, but any expansion of the
treatment plant is going to have to address current control of odor and noise and current
control will, again, leave us in an area without any impact from it. So, we feel
comfortable about doing that and feel comfortable also about putting something on our
application or our sale of land that indicates where we are, if that's an issue with the
Council.
De Weerd: Okay.
Kartchner: So, I'll stand for any questions that you might have.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions for the applicant?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I don't have any for Richard, but I would direct a question to
Kyle about the study that was conducted and the conclusions it reached and Richard's
conclusions versus any conclusions you might have reached in reviewing the study.
Radek: Madam Mayor, Mr. President, Council Members, I have reviewed the report
and as the gentleman suggested, it seems to be a very well written report. I think -- I
think we have a slide of one of the diagrams and it's actually -- you boil it down and the
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September 23, 2008
Page 64 of 73
report says at the year 2023 -- and this is according to models and we have a little
experience with models, such as a model you might expect in a floodplain, so, you
know, models, we take them with a grain of salt, but this is a prediction for 2023 and I
guess that's one thing we make clear is that it's a prediction for 2023, not -- not a
representation of what somebody might smell out there right now. This diagram shows
-- to put this in context, this -- this shows peak levels of odor and a typical detectable
level as put out by the report is round seven on this -- on this chart and these are peak
levels and a more applicable chart, I believe, is one we don't have a picture of, which
predicts that in the area of concern approximately -- oh, no, we do have it. There it is.
In the area you see the 200 contour going through that area, which indicates that
approximately 200 hours out of the year a and a year is 8,700 odd hours, so 200 hours
out of 8,700 you're going to have detectable levels of odor in that area is what that
model is predicting. I think that's -- that's, basically, all I have to say about it, unless
there are other questions I can try to answer.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor, I do have a question for Kyle. Kyle, then, that 200 line is e
and this 100, does that mean it's going to be between 100 and 200 and that's 200 to
300 -- I mean there is, of course, a variable in there you can't predict, but that's how you
read that right there?
Radek: That's correct. You'd interpolate between those two contours.
Kartchner: Can I interject here?
De Weerd: Yes.
Kartchner: I want to indicate that there were three different studies done. One that
says 2023, which, basically, means this no improvement of sound -- of noise or odor
improvements. There will be no improvements made to the existing plant or the
expanded plant. And this is the level. Now, if you look at the level two or level one
containment, which is -- then, you can see that those numbers change dramatically.
This is level one containment, which means all -- I can't remember the word they use --
serious odors, I think. Can you go back to -- show another one up there has another
level. Level two containment and now we are between -- what are those numbers?
Ten and 20. So, if there is any containment done of the odors with the development,
then, these numbers become smaller and smaller and our contention is that certainly
you're going to have to do some containment, because if you don't, then, you start
affecting all of these homes down here where they already can detect some of that odor
and you will have more and more complaints, which you don't want, so that containment
is going to have to be done in the future and it leads us further and further out of any of
these problems. And if I can mention just one other thing about this report, it does not --
it is only a model, there has never been an odor measurement taken anywhere on this
property or even at the plant itself. This is just a model of -- a computer model of what
might happen with the kind of equipment that you have got in the plant. It does not take
into account any kind of blockage of that odor and noise from the plant, trees, homes,
shrubbery, and it does not take into account prevailing winds that go this way. So, the
Meridian City Council
September 23, 2008
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study has a place, but it's also got some weaknesses and those weaknesses, in my
opinion, put us well out of a problem with the noise or the odor in the area.
De Weerd: I don't know. I think i live within three-quarters of a mile of that and every
once in awhile I smell it, so -- it -- the odor does travel and our concem is setting
ourselves up for those -- those frequent phone calls and -- of concem and certainly
when the wind shifts, so that it's flowing out of the west, which doesn't -- well, which -- it
does happen often.
Kartchner: Sometimes in the evenings it will go this way.
Bird: The prevailing wind is from the north, so it would hit you more than --
Rountree: Well, no, we are southwest. Yeah.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor, I just might mention where I live is right here. I am due west
of the plant. Now, for the first several years that we lived on this property -- my wife --
my in-law's dairy farm was here. We did not notice the sewer plant with a working dairy
farm. I had people say did you smell -- well, we had some people over here complain
that they could smell our dairy farm. We suspected it was the dairy and it was
confirmed one time after the dairy was sold and moved out and it was bare ground, they
said, oh, we smell your dairy and we were, no, it can't be our dairy. Mr. Kartchner is --
you know, the prevailing wind thing does -- it does tend to go this way. There are
occasional evenings you might get a whiff of it. The question is, you know, long term
when you expand the treatment facility out what happens and I guess you don't do any
odor control and whatnot, but, then, in my mind I keep thinking going back to, well, this
is -- these are the folks that are down -- down range of that right there. If you get a
breeze coming from this direction usually, you know, if it's out of the southeast it's a
pretty strong wind. That means we get some changes in weather and it's blown right
through there, so -- can you go to that number three, level three you had? 2023.
Kartchner: This is -- this means no treatment.
Hoaglun: No treatment. Right.
Kartchner: No additional treatment of existing odors.
Hoaglun: There I am --
Kartchner: By the way, this is just odors, no noise.
Hoaglun: You know, I'm like, hum, this is going to be interesting. But at the same time
I'm thinking, okay, from -- when that breeze blows -- now, of course, we are having
climate change. Now, you never know which way the wind is going to blow now, but I
don't want to go there.
Meridian City Council
September 23, 2008
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Bird: You would admit that?
Hoaglun: Things change every day. I'm not saying who caused it. That's right.
Kartchner: So, yeah -- and I agree what happens if there is no treatment and these
levels exist and -- you are going to get more and more problems down here and out
here. There is going to have to be a little bit of treatment.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Rountree: I guess I don't necessarily want the record to reflect -- or Richard to --
depending on how this goes, but as a potential marketing is the City of Meridian is going
to do something in the future. Given the state of the finances and the ability to collect
revenue to operate our public works, I'm not sure that we will be doing anything in the
future. So, I think that would be a very poor thing to tell any future resident in the area
that things are going to get better, because we are going to be making improvements at
the plant, because, quite honestly, I'm not sure I want anybody to be told that. I don't
know that it's going to happen, given some of the regulatory things that we see coming
down the pike, we are going to have a tough time just meeting bare minimum regulatory
requirements.
De Weerd: They are all unfunded mandates.
Rountree: All unfunded mandates.
Kartchner: I just know that there is not a problem. I mean I don't understand why we
say there is, because empirically there is not. So, that's our --our statement.
Rountree: I have a question. Kyle, you wanted to make a comment? Excuse me,
Madam Mayor. He's over there ready to talk.
Radek: Madam Mayor, Mr. President, Council Members, I was waiting for a little
opportunity just to -- just to make a point of order that it -- atmospheric conditions,
including wind speed and direction and temperature and cloud cover from every hour of
1991 were included in the development of the model. Also, just a point of information
for you, project costs for level two construction and design approximately 5,300,000
dollars at the time the study was done.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I had a question for Anna as it related to issues for
discussion, the fourth one it seems to me that -- again, the conditions in a development
agreement would be something that we would do at annexation, not at this stage, so if
that was a concern of P&Z, that certainly could be taken care of, depending on how we
move forward with this amendment, but it could be done at the annexation stage.
Meridian City Council
September 23, 2008
Page 67 of 73
De Weerd: Okay. Any additional questions from Council for staff or the applicant?
Richard, any further questions?
Kartchner: No.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Kartchner: I'll put myself on the altar of our decision.
De Weerd: Wow.
Rountree: Ooh.
De Weerd: Any additional public testimony?
Bird: I don't need any.
De Weerd: If you will, please, state your name and address for the record.
Rassmussen: Brent Rasmussen. 4315 North Ten Mile.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Rassmussen: I'm the other resident right there. So, I don't want to beat a dead horse
here, but the biggest restriction seems to be odor and I have lived there for 17 years
and, honestly, I have only noticed it at the most twice a year when I have gone through.
I can notice it when it comes around, but it's only been a couple times a year and from
what Brad was saying, he --
De Weerd: He thought it was his cows, uh?
Rassmussen: Right. It comes a little more often and so I guess what I'm looking at is
kind of the precedent that has been set already. There are -- if you follow the contour
around, there is already a lot of houses that have already been put in within the range of
what we are proposing here and it's only a small group that's there. You don't want to
add more to it, but as far as a precedence being set, that's usually grounds for law
making is something that's already existed to build on that. I don't think it will be a
problem, just because of all of the other houses in the area that -- they are there
already, preexisting, and are living with the results. If we don't make anymore changes
it won't make it any worse, because it's still within the boundaries of what already exists
there. And if you go beyond that and accept that, then, you have the part about what
makes sense for the area and we have heard a lot of testimony today about buffer
zones and things. So, having a nice office area on the front of the acreage to match
what's over here on Bridgetower makes sense in my mind and, then, we have
residences right here and have more residences around there makes sense, too, and
for all the property owners around there, that's what they would prefer first is the current
Meridian City Council
September 23, 2008
Page 68 of 73
mixed use proposals that could be as part of the development. And one thing that
doesn't show here is Bridgetower and there are a lot of houses all over in this area, too,
that exist, again, within the contours of the preexisting on this, so --
De Weerd: You know -- and all I can say is, you know, that's the definition of insanity,
keep doing the same thing and expecting different results. So, you know, I guess
knowing the prevailing wind and what their average or normal flows are and where --
what that means to that property, you know, that's a point of consideration. But certainly
what has been done in -the area surrounding that without this map, I think Council's
never really seen this map and how those odors flow and, you know, how it influenced
decisions that were made ten years ago. Oh, my time is up. But, you know, I think, too,
what decisions have been made in the past, that's why we designated a certain area
around the treatment plant, because we didn't want to continue to do more of the same,
we wanted to make sure that what we did was -- was thoughtful and took all of those
different considerations in mind.
Rassmussen: Right. I can understand that, but there is also a lot that -- it's just a -- it's
a square and it didn't take the study into account at all and there is a lot of dwellings
outside that square that still are outside ours.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor, just to comment further, if this were property here -- if we
were talking about it down here, you know, I'd probably be looking at it in a little different
light, because of the way the wind blows. I mean that would -- that would change the
argument significantly in my mind, but because of that location being north -- and that's
something to take into consideration. I mean this is very helpful to see where that goes
and what the look is and where they are on the -- you know, whether you agree with it
or not, at least is gives you some idea of what -- what's out there and potential impacts
are going to be, so -- and if I'm on the Council in the future and that's where the sewer
plant is, they need to expand and the monies there to expand, I'll vote to expand it
there, even if the neighbors oppose it, I mean that's a that's where it is and I think
people have to take more responsibility -- when they go to buy a home, they need to
check out what's in the area. They look at schools, you look at sewer treatment plants
-- I mean those are the types of things you got to -- you know, even though I know, you
guys have borne the battle scars and I haven't yet where folks come in and complain,
but once it's there -- but -- it's not going anywhere.
De Weerd: Fire station.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Rountree: I guess to play off of your comment saying we have never seen this, we
commissioned this study for this very reason, to help us with these decisions in this
area. And I guess to speak to another point about -- if you don't have. any problems
now, this won't be a problem -- we have continual complaints right now from folks that
Meridian City Council
September 23, 2008
Page 69 of 73
live around and downwind of the plant, if I'm not mistaken, and on a first name basis
with a number of people, as a matter of fact, at the plant. So, just so the record's clear,
we do have an issue. Because of those issues that's why we commissioned this. I
think it's correct given this contour this -- this is the level of information and the type of
treatment level we should be considering for future decisions, not the stage one and
stage two clean up and/or noise abatement levels, but what's there now and what could
be there given the state of the art that we have at the plant now. So, this I believe is the
worst case model and that's what we, I believe, need to take into consideration.
De Weerd: So, when they call we say you only get 200 hours of it?
Rountree: Yeah. Just, you know --
Hoaglun: Holidays and weekends.
Rountree: Holidays and weekends. Hopefully, you're at work those 200 hours.
De Weerd: No. That's when they are home flushing their toilet.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I would just chime in on some of the observations that -- the reason that the
mixed use wastewater treatment overlay was done -- south of Ustick those houses were
there before the overlay was done and it was done because they were complaining.
However, at the time the overlay was a big square, because this study had not been
done yet and, you know, the study shows that maybe the square wasn't the right shape
necessarily. There might be some spaces out on the margin that aren't as heavily
impacted as some of the people that were already there. Not to go a totally different
direction, but my comment earlier about industrial space, to me this is prime area for
industrial and if we are going to have any anywhere, if you consider what Ten Mile is
going to do when the interchange is in and what Ustick is going to do when Highway 16
is extended and has an interchange at Ustick, one of the things industrial needs is
access to transportation and there they have it. So, you know, if there is any use for
this area, I sure would like to see us re-designate it industrial. But that being said, I can
see that this little sliver doesn't need to be included in that. So, I could go either way.
That's not very helpful, but --
De Weerd: But thank you. Okay. Council, anything further? Any additional closing
remarks, Mr. Kartchner? Okay. Thank you. Okay.
Bird: Madam Mayor, I move we close CPA 08-006.
Rountree: Second.
Meridian City Council
September 23, 2008
Page 70 of 73
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close Item 24. All those in favor say aye.
All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, what's your pleasure?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve CPA 08-006, request for the Comprehensive Plan future land
use map to change the future land use map designation 11 acres of land from mixed
use wastewater treatment plant to office, two plus or minus, and low density residential,
nine plus or minus acres, for Kartchner by Richard Kartchner at 4325 and 4315 North
Ten Mile Road, to include staff, applicant, and public comment and also on the issues --
we don't have to wont' about that development agreement at this time. I don't believe
we -- I don't believe it would be an appropriate Comprehensive Plan amendment to put
-- to make them put something on their plat regarding the odor or something, that's
something we could do when preliminary plats are coming through. Not that I don't
agree that it needs to be on there. So, with that I move that we approve it as has been -
- the applicant has brought forward.
Hoaglun: I'll second that.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 24. Any discussion?
Hearing none, Madam Clerk.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: Okay. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 25: Public: CPA 08-008 Request for Comprehensive Plan Amendment to
modify the Future Land Use Map by changing the land use designation
from Medium Density Residential to Mixed Use -Community for
approximately 5 acres for Postal Annex by Jack Gish -Southwest Comer
of Meridian Road and McMillan Road:
De Weerd: Okay. We have ordinances on No. 26, 27 and 28. Oh, I'm. On Item 25, the
applicant requests withdrawal of the application.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Meridian City Council
September 23, 2008
Page 71 of 73
Zaremba: I move we accept the applicant's withdrawal of CPA 08-008.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to accept the withdrawal of this item.
All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carves.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 26: Ordinance No. :Dogs Off Leash Ordinance:
Item 27: Ordinance No.: AZ 08-006 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 0.92 of
an acre from R1 to an R-2 zone for Alter Property by Denise Alter - 2741
East Leslie Drive:
Item 28: Ordinance No.: AZ 07-019 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 15.49
acres from RUT to L-O zone for Stake House by the Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter Day Saints - 5555 North Locust Grove Road:
De Weerd: Okay. Ordinance No. 08-1381, 08-1382, and 08-1383. Madam Clerk, will
you, please, read these ordinances by title only.
Bird: Madam Mayor, may I insert something before she starts reading. On proposed
ordinance 08-1382, councilmen listed is Gorton, Rountree, Bird, and Hoaglun. It should
be Zaremba, instead of Gorton. On 08-1383, Gorton is listed in place of Hoaglun. It
should be Hoaglun in place of Gorton.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Bird.
Baird: Madam Mayor, the city --
De Weerd: I'm so impressed that you're reading these.
Baird: The city attorney's office will make sure we update our forms.
Bird: I just accidentally found it.
De Weerd: Well, we don't want to read it all the way to the last page unless the public
so desires, but, Madam Clerk, will you, please, read it by title only.
Holman: Thank you, Madam Mayor. City of Meridian Ordinance No. 08-1381, an
ordinance of the City of Meridian amending Title 6, Chapter 2, Section 1, relating to
animals running at large and providing an effective date.
Meridian City Council
September 23, 2008
Page 72 of 73
Holman: City of Meridian Ordinance No. 08-1382, an ordinance AZ 08-006, Alter
Project for annexation of a parcel of land being all of Lot 8, Block 2, of Carol Subdivision
No. 2, as filed in Book 39 of Plats at page 3248, records of Ada County, Idaho, and
portions of public rights of way located in the northeast one quarter of Section 5,
Township 3 North, Range 1 East, Boise Meridian, Ada County, Idaho, as described in
Attachment A and annexing certain lands and territories situated in Ada County, Idaho,
and adjacent and contiguous to the corporate limits of the City of Meridian, as requested
by the City of Meridian, establishing and determining the land use zoning classification
of said lands from R-1, Ada County, to R-2, low density residential district, in the
Meridian City Code, providing that copies of this ordinance shall be filed with the Ada
County assessor, the Ada County recorder and the Idaho State Tax Commission as
required by law and providing for a summary of the ordinance and providing for a waiver
of the reading rules and providing an effective date.
Holman: City of Meridian Ordinance No. 08-1383, an ordinance AZ 07-019, Stake
House Project for annexation of a parcel of land being a portion of the parcel as
described in warranty deed instrument number 7734535, Ada County records, said
parcel being situated in the northeast one quarter of the southeast one quarter of
Section 30, Township 4 North, Range 1 East, Boise Meridian, Ada County, Idaho, as
described in Attachment A and annexing certain lands and territories situated in Ada
County, Idaho, adjacent and contiguous to the corporate limits of the City of Meridian,
as requested by the City of Meridian, establishing and determining the land use zoning
classification of said lands from RUT, Ada County, to L-O, limited office district, in the
Meridian City Code, providing that copies of this ordinance shall be filed with the Ada
County assessor, the Ada County recorder and the Idaho State Tax Commission as
required by law and providing for a summary of the ordinance and providing for a waiver
of the reading rules and providing an effective date.
De Weerd: Thank you. You have heard these three ordinances read by title only. Is
there anyone who would like to hear them read in their entirety? Seeing none --
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve Ordinances 08-1381, 08-1382 and 08-1383, with suspension
of rules.
Rountree: Second.
Hoaglun: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve these three ordinances. If there is
no discussion, Madam Clerk, would you call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
Meridian City Council
September 23, 2008
Page 73 of 73
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: We are at the end of our agenda and look at the time. Isn't that exciting. I
would entertain a motion to adjourn.
Rountree: So moved.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion
carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 10:50 P.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
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