HomeMy WebLinkAbout2008 08-26Meridian Citv Council Meetin4 AuAUSt 26, 2008
A meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 7:35 p.m., Tuesday,
August 26, 2008, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd, Joe Borton, Keith Bird, Charlie
Rountree and David Zaremba.
Others Present: Bill Nary, Jaycee Holman, Anna Canning, Kyle Radek, Ron
Anderson, Jeff Lavey, Scott Colaianni, Steve Siddoway, and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
X David Zaremba X Joe Borton
X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
De Weerd: Okay. I will go ahead and call this meeting to order. We apologize
for the late start, but we appreciate your indulgence of that delayed beginning.
For the record, it is Tuesday, August 26, and it is 7:35. We will start tonight's
regular meeting with roll call attendance.
Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance:
De Weerd: Item No. 2 is our pledge of allegiance. Tonight we will be led in the
pledge by Councilman Rountree.
(Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
Item 3: Community Invocation by Pastor Dave Murphy with Capital
Christian Center:
De Weerd: Item No. 3 is our community invocation. Tonight we will be led by
Pastor Dave Murphy with Capital Christian Center. If you will all join us in the
community invocation or take this as an opportunity for a moment of reflection.
Pastor.
Murphy: Let's pray. Dear Heavenly Father, it is only fitting to open tonight by
asking you to bring comfort to the family of Mary Ellen Ryder who lost her life in a
devastating fire in neighboring Boise just last night. Lord, I ask you to restore the
hope and joy to the families affected. I thank you for your hand of protection on
all the emergency responders and thank you for the outpouring support from this
Treasure Valley. We acknowledge that you, Lord, are sovereign and I ask that
you would impart wisdom for the decisions made tonight, so that the City of
Meridian would continue to prosper. I pray the blessing of God upon every
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August 26, 2008
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Council Member and their household, as well as ask for your covering and
protection on the city's civil servants, schools, businesses, churches, and its
residents. As your word in Ephesians 4:16 says: The whole body joined and
held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love as
each part does its work. God, I pray that for this community that together as
each person who calls Meridian home or conducts business here, would come
along side this Council to support, not to tear down, to honor, not to discredit.
Lord, these Council Members have a duty, because of an election, but we as
citizens have a responsibility to aid them in those endeavors. I pray that all of the
citizens of this great city would rise up and serve one another to see the destiny
of this city and of their lives fulfilled, in Jesus' name we pray, amen.
Item 4: Adoption of the Agenda:
De Weerd: Thank you. I do have a City of Meridian pin that I would like to
present to you and thank you for joining us. Okay. Item No. 4 is the adoption of
the agenda.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: On the agenda I would like to comment on a few changes. In the
Consent Agenda, item I havs been requested to be withdrawn. Item 7,
Department Reports, B, Legal Department number two, discussion of fiscal year
'09 benefits, has been requested to be withdrawn. On the regular agenda, Items
10 and 11 have -- we have a request to move those to the end of the meeting, so
that other people can gather for those and I would suggest that we actually put
them after 19 and before 20. That's Items 10 and 11 being moved to after 19.
Item 12 we have a request from I believe the applicant to continue that one until
our regularly scheduled meeting of September 23rd. Item 19 we have request to
move that earlier in the agenda and I would use it to replace ten. That we moved
that near the end. Item 20, the proposed ordinance number is 03-1376. Item 21,
the proposed ordinance number is 08-1377. And, then, we would add to the
regular agenda the -- an Item 22, which is the Executive Session per Idaho State
Code 67-2345(1)Q), which was removed from our special meeting earlier. And
with those changes I move that we adopt the amended agenda.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda as changed. All
those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 5: Consent Agenda:
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A. Approve Minutes of July 22, 2008 City Council Regular
Meeting:
B. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval:
RZ 08-002 Request for Rezone of 0.55 of an acre from the
R-4 to L-O zoning district for Meridian Library Parking Lot
Expansion by the Meridian Library District - 1727 N.
Leisure Lane:
C. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval:
VAR 08-006 Request for a Variance to UDC Table 11-2A-5,
which requires a 15 foot rear yard building setback; and
UDC 11-3A-7C, which limits fencing to 6 feet in height in the
R-4 district for Maxwell Patio 8< Arbors by Sylvia Maxwell -
1065 E. Peacock Street:
D. Change Order No. 14 with Primeland Development for
the North Black Cat Trunk Sewer Proiect for $14,365.58:
E. Joint Funding Agreement for U.S. Geological Survey for
6 800.00:
F. Water and Sewer Easements for Destination Place
Subdivision No. 2 Proiect (Construction):
G. Master Agreement for Professional Services - Pharmer
Engineering'
H. Chance Order #1 to Task Order 076 with Hydro Logic for
Hvdroaeoloaic Well Rehabilitation Consulting for a Not
to Exceed Amount of $15,000.00:
J. Addendum No. 2 to Development Agreement: MI 08-006
Request for Miscellaneous application to modify Sub-section
6, "Conditions Governing the Subject Property" item A3 of
the recorded Development Agreement which requires CUP
approval for any future church /office uses for Verona
Subdivision by Primeland Investment Group, LLC -
Northeast Comer of West McMillan Road and North Ten
Mile Road:
De Weerd: Item 5 is our Consent Agenda.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
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August 26, 2008
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De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Noting that Item I is withdrawn from the Consent Agenda, I move that
we approve all other items on the Consent Agenda.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to approve the Consent
Agenda as changed. Council, any discussion?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Rountree: I assume the motion that I seconded includes the authorization for the
Mayor to sign and clerk to attest?
Zaremba: Yes, I did mean to say that. Mayor to sign and clerk to attest. Thank
you.
De Weerd: We appreciate that. Madam Clerk, will you, please, call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 6: Confirmation of City Council Member Seat #2:
De Weerd: Thank you. Item 6 is confirmation of City Council Member Seat No.
2. Council, as you know Mr. Borton is going to be stepping down effective
September 2nd at noon. I think it was high noon; right? I hope that's not an
indication for anything, but --
Borton: It is.
De Weerd: But we -- before I ask for confirmation of the appointment of the
name that I'm bringing in front of you today, I would like to say a few words. You
know, when we did this for Mr. Wardle, we were able to tum it into kind of a roast
opportunity. I have been too busy today to compile thoughts of how I could
adequately roast you, but, believe me, I will look for opportunities when you're in
front of us in the future, because I have some great quotes that I'm sure might
come back and haunt you. It has been certainly a pleasure working with you,
Joe. You have added a great dimension to our Council. You have added great
discussion and perspective. Certainly have appreciated getting to know you in a
professional manner, as well as a more personnel one. So, I have certainly
valued your time on this Council and we know that we will continue to see you.
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My sincere thanks for your service to this community. Council, I guess I do have
a presentation for Mr. Borton and I always do this in front, so, Mr. Borton, if you
will, please, join me in front.
Borton: Okay.
Rountree: Public display.
Borton: What's that?
Rountree: Public display.
Borton: I guess.
De Weerd: I think they always appreciate when I don't cry, so I'll work on that.
It's only Joe. So, Joe, this is presented -- and I will read the plaque. Joe Borton,
City Council Member, City of Meridian. Presented in recognition of your
contributions and service to the City of Meridian as City Council Member from
January 2006 through August of 2008. The City of Meridian greatly appreciates
your dedication and commitment to serve the city and community. With our
thanks I would like to present this to you.
Borton: Thank you very much.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Borton: Thank you, Madam Mayor and to Members of the Council and the staff,
it's been an absolute wonderful, awesome experience to be on City Council.
Learned a lot. Hopefully, I have helped and assisted and mucked things up all at
the same time.
Nary: Oh, yes.
Borton: So, thank you. Again, I love the city, it's been a blast being on City
Council. I look forward to, hopefully, one day coming back and doing this again.
I just really appreciate all the support. Thank you.
De Weerd: Council, any further comments or roasting remarks?
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I'm not going to take the opportunity to roast Joe,
other than I don't know what we are going to do without the second attorney on
the bench up here, but I think we will get by. But, Joe, it's been a pleasure
working with you these past few years. I have enjoyed our disagreement and our
agreement and in the relationship that we all have with you and the reciprocal. I
wish you well in your new business and with your family endeavors, the things
that you're going to be taking on as Mr. Mom to some degree, and look forward
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August 26, 2008
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to seeing you in front of us and really look forward to the opportunity to grill you.
Thanks for all your service, Joe, and I hope and I fully anticipate to see you in
this type of endeavor in the future.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I just echo Councilman Rountree's words, Joe. I've really enjoyed working
with you here. You're a brilliant young man. I know you will be back here once
you get where you're able to. You have done a very good job and I appreciate
everything you have done. Thank you.
Borton: Thanks, Keith.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor and Joe.
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I have really appreciated sitting next to you and have enjoyed all of
your comments and your outlook and I actually think we have agreed most of the
time. I don't even remember times that we didn't. There probably were some,
but I have very much enjoyed working next to you and getting to know you as
well and look forward to not losing that relationship as you move on, but have
been very happy to have you here and you have done a lot of good for Meridian.
Thank you.
Borton: Thanks.
De Weerd: Thank you, Joe.
Borton: Madam. Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Borton: Is it appropriate if we just go through the room? I like how things are
going.
De Weerd: I think your head is big enough.
Borton: We will just go left to right.
Bird: I'm sure there is one out there that would love to give you a --
Borton: We will just skip them.
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De Weerd: You might be careful what you ask for.
Borton: It's becoming a bad idea. I take that back.
Rountree: Wishful thinker.
De Weerd: You might have some real, true, honest public testimony here.
Borton: I take it back.
De Weerd: Yeah. I would say, Council, the name I bring to you tonight for your
confirmation is for Brad Hoaglun. I think that Brad can ask the probing questions
that we are used to Councilman Borton asking. He brings a very diverse
background with him in private business, all levels of government, public and
constituent relations. I know Brad. He's got great ethical standards and I am
very honored to bring to you tonight for confirmation Brad Hoaglun for Council --
City Council Member Seat Two. And you had a chance to grill him earlier and I'm
sure that Frank is going to reprint all of your grilling in the paper. But certainly I
would be available to answer any of your questions.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, seeing no questions, it's my pleasure --great pleasure
to move that we accept and confirm the nomination of Brad Hoaglun for City
Council Seat No. 2 and that would be effective September 9th?
De Weerd: Yes. Which it would be when he was sworn in.
Borton: Second.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a couple of seconds on this confirmation. Any
discussion?
Zaremba: I may as well add my second to it as well, so we have three seconds.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Madam Clerk, roll call.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Well, usually -- it will still be Mr. Hoaglun right now. I didn't ask if you
agreed until after the vote. Would you like to make comment?
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Hoaglun: Madam Mayor, Members of the City Council, thank you very much. I
appreciate that. I am a little concerned, however, after hearing the accolades for
Councilman Borton that I can fill those shoes, but I will do my best.
Borton: I wrote them for them.
Hoaglun: Okay. I appreciate that. You're going to have to leave me some
notes, too. But, anyway, I look forward to serving with you and this is a great
community and I'm going to join with you to do what we can to continue to make
it better. Thank you.
Item 7: Department Reports:
A. Public Works:
1. IDWARN Mutual Aid Aareement:
De Weerd: Thank you. And we look forward to welcoming you on September
9th. Okay. Thank you, Council. Item No. 7 under Department Reports. Public
Works. Kyle.
Radek: Madam Mayor, Mr. President, Council Members, a WARN is a
Water/wastewater Agency Response Network and the IDWARN is Idaho's
version of that. Last week Boise city executed their Mutual Aid Agreement and
Idaho officially became, I believe, the 35th state to have a WARN, a network
which is intended to provide emergency assistance to other utilities in times of
need. This Mutual Aid Assistance Agreement that we bring before tonight for
discussion and, if appropriate, approval for signature by the Mayor, is the vehicle
to make that happen. We think that it's the right thing to do. It's a very loose
agreement. It doesn't tie us down to anything. The way it works is a member will
request aid assistance from all the other members of the network. The other
members of the network choose whether they can respond or not to help out in a
disaster-type situation and the agreement has been reviewed by legal. Legal has
a few comments. Other than that, I guess I would let Mr. Nary make the
comments they have and, then, turn it over to you folks for discussion.
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. We had asked to
bring this with public works to -- just to make you aware. There is a -- for lack of
abetter way of expressing it, maybe some fuuy lawyering language that's in the
indemnification provision of this agreement and what it says is although it's
limiting the city's liability as permitted by law, it also says that the public entity
would indemnify any party that we request to come assist us in the time of
emergency that this agreement applies to. And we would be, then, indemnifying
any action that they take. What it doesn't say is any action that they take at our
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direction or any action that they take in furtherance of our authority. So, our
concem was simply that you be beware that it's sort of fuzzy and somewhat open
ended as to what our risk and liability might be by other people assisting within
our city that may not be under the direction of our staff and don't work for us. I
haven't sent this to ICRIMP at this point to see whether or not they have any
other issues with it. We did contact the city of Boise and what they felt was that
they made a staff level decision, they didn't even discuss this with their counsel,
but they felt that it was simply a cost of doing business that if they wanted to be a
part of this -- this network agreement, that that was just the way they would have
to do it and because -- and Kyle's exactly right, we do control whether or not we
use other personnel. We do make our own decision on whether or not we even
invoke this agreement before we do anything. So, the risk is fairly limited in that
regard, because there is some control. We were just concerned from legal staff
that you would at least beware that if we do choose to participate in this that it's a
little fuzzy, it's not totally clear who may be responsible. I wouldn't have a
concem if it was clear that it was at our direction, which is our normal course in
mutual aid agreements we may have say in public safety or with some of our
roadway agreements, like we recently enacted with ITD where we said if we are -
- if we employ them or they are our agent and they are acting under our direction
we are responsible. This doesn't have that, so I just wanted you to be aware of it
before you moved to approve it.
De Weerd: Kyle, can you tell us what kind of situations this would incorporate?
Radek: Madam Mayor, Council Members, it's -- it's hard to predict what kind of
disaster we are going to have, but --
De Weerd: Just examples of perhaps how others have used it.
Radek: The city of -- it's in Colorado. Last summer (believe -- it may have been
Arvada. It was one of the -- one of the front range cities in Colorado that this
really helped them out. It was a smaller city and I think generally it's probably
more help to a smaller city, but they had a contaminant in their water supply. I
can't remember what exactly it was. But within, you know, hours of the call the
people in the WARN network responded to help them sample water, flush water
lines, notify public, things like that, and in that case really helped that little city
out.
De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: The indemnification issue yet comes before us. I think this is certainly
a good tool and one we need to take advantage of, but (would -- I would like to
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August 26, 2008
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give it another week at a minimum to see if we can't explore what our potential
risk is and whether or not (CRIMP would cover us in that risky situation. Unless
it's that urgent. But if we can give it -- give it a few more days of research get us
an answer and, then, we can act on it.
De Weerd: Okay.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I will send it to (CRIMP in the
morning and see if they have any -- like I said, the limitation language in the first
paragraph is good. The very expansive language in the second paragraph is
very concerning. I can certainly think of lots of what ifs that may never happen
that we would be responsible for. But I will send that out to (CRIMP in the
morning and see if we can get a response from them. They are generally pretty
good at getting back to us within a day or two. So, we can report back next week
and I will certainly share whatever we get with Public Works and Kyle so that you
know at least what their opinion is.
Rountree: Thank you.
B. Legal Department:
1. Discussion of Amendments to Director Position
and Titles Ordinance:
2. Discussion of f=Y09 Benefits:
De Weerd: Okay. Any other comments? Thank you, Kyle. Okay. Item 7-B is
our legal department.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, it came to my attention that we --
as we were reviewing some ordinances that some -- because of the time that has
past, if you notice in this ordinance regarding appointments of directors of the
city, as well as some of the duties and responsibilities for both the Public Works
director and the finance department and chief financial officer, some of the duties
have changed, some of the responsibilities have changed, some of the language
is very archaic. As you probably noticed in the ordinance some of this was
actually implemented in 1955. We have grown significantly since then. And so
all we are doing is, essentially, cleaning up this particular ordinance, making sure
the titles match the positions that we currently have and the responsibilities
match what we currently do. The other ordinances of the city, the different
sections regarding the city attorney was done in 2004. The parks director ones
are already contained in the parks code. The planning director is already
contained within the planning code. Those have been reviewed more recently
and so they were updated, these just haven't been. So, I was bringing it in front
of you for your review. If it's satisfactory to you we can put it on next week's
agenda for approval.
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De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I want a couple of weeks to look it over. I don't see where it's been like this
since 2004, I don't see why we need to take a week. There is some things in that
that I'd like to go over. I just got it e-mailed out to me I believe yesterday and I
copied it off and I haven't had a chance to look it over and don't see where it
would hurt to do it the 9th when we have a full Council.
Nary: Sure.
De Weerd: Okay. So, two weeks, Council?
Rountree: I'm okay with that, Madam Mayor.
Zaremba: That's fine.
Borton: I'm okay with that.
Rountree: Thanks, Joe.
De Weerd: I think Joe must be a lame duck. Okay. We will continue this until
September 9th.
Item 8: Items Moved from Consent Agenda:
De Weerd: Okay. There were no items moved from the Consent Agenda.
Item 9: Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: PP 08-
005 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 5 commercial lots and
1 other lot on 10 acres in a C-G zoning district for KniAhthill
Center by James Wylie - SWC of W. Chinden Boulevard and N.
Linder Road:
De Weerd: Item 9 is PP 08-005, to approve the Findings. Anna, has the
applicant agreed with staff recommendation?
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, normally this would be on
your Consent Agenda. I asked the clerk to pull it off, so that I could clarify one
minor issue with you. During the public testimony I had mentioned that the
applicant would ask for an increase in the square footage from 40,000 to 50,000
square feet and during the applicant's presentation he mentioned that he would
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August 26, 2008
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like to increase the allowed square footage from 40,000 to 50,000 feet, but
Council never said a word one way or the other about it. So, when we went to
prepare the Findings we just concluded that 40,000 square foot number, because
you had not discussed it. But I just want to clarify that that's what the Council
intended was to have the 40,000 square foot number, rather than the 50,000
square foot number and --
De Weerd: Thank you, Anna. Council?
Rountree: Madam Mayor, my recollection is that we -- did I make the motion?
De Weerd: I believe so.
Rountree: I believe I did. That -- to support staffs recommendation and that was
at the 40,000.
Canning: Okay. Then, the Findings you have in your packet are the ones that
should be approved. Or can be approved if you choose.
De Weerd: Okay. Council?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we approve the Findings for Item No. 9 for the Knighthill
Center.
Zaremba: Second.
Rountree: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 9. Is there any
discussion? Madam Clerk, will you roll call.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 19: Public Hearing: Downtown Meridian Striping Ptan:
De Weerd: Okay. Items 10 and 11 were asked to move towards the end of the
agenda and 19 is -- replaced these two items. Number 19 was a public hearing
on the downtown Meridian striping plan. Mr. Wardle. .
Wardle: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Shaun Wardle, 2239 East Greiner Street in
Meridian. I am the administrator for the Meridian Development Corporation.
Thank you for having me here this evening. And thank you, Mr. Borton, for all of
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August 26, 2008
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your service to the city as a Council member. I will point out there are as many
former or lame duck Council members in the room as there are current or new
Council members, so I think that's a testament to the service of this city. In
keeping with that --
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle, I might also mention on your last day who was giving
you a hard time?
Wardle: I believe I'm going to save my comments for a nice project that Mr.
Borton can come up with and come here and testify in that capacity. So, I
appreciate that. The Development Corporation in this item has at their -- a year
ago approved a budget item to -- to help configure the parking situation in
downtown Meridian. We have known for some time that parking is one of the
items that really helps a thriving downtown community come forward and one of
the items that we saw in downtown Meridian is there currently is not a consistent
striping plan for public parking spaces and so last fall we undertook the effort, we
hired Keller & Associates to put together a striping plan and we presented that
plan to the board of directors. They approved it. We submitted it to the Ada
County Highway District and, then, in the spring they sent us a letter, which,
essentially, explained that we needed to revisit our parking striping plan pursuant
to Idaho State Code and there is a specific provision that I'll talk about. When we
had the consultant prepare this item, we had them prepare the number of spaces
in aggregate to the block in relationship to the required number of spaces per
code. Okay. The one particular area code which we did not address is that --
that particular item that says that each block face -- or each block, as defined by
code, block face must also carry an ADA accessible space and so we looked at it
as an aggregate, as opposed to looking at it per block face and that's the reason
we are here today. We have convened a committee, which the City Council
confirmed. That committee was comprised of at least one half of the members or
persons with a disability defined by Idaho Code and I can tell you that city staff
put the committee together, as well as facilitated this -- this committee and it was
really insightful in terms of looking at downtown parking and the need for ADA
accessible spaces. A couple of noted items from the original plan to the current
plan, which has been submitted for public comment and that is in the original
plan there were no ADA accessible spaces on parallel parking only streets and
the committee actually had some in-depth conversation about how those spaces
would be appropriate, why they are appropriate and, then, looked at the total of
downtown and actually added a number of spaces where they thought it would
be appropriate to allow people access and so that plan has been -- we took all of
the comments back, we had the consultant redraw the entire plan and we
submitted it to the clerk's office and it's been available for public comment and
that's why I'm here this evening is -- is to ask for -- obviously we are in a public
hearing and to ask if there are any additional comments that can be incorporated
into this ordinance.
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August 26, 2008
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De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Wardle. Any questions for --
Rountree: I have none.
De Weerd: Are you the applicant?
Wardle: I --
De Weerd: For Shaun.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I believe the committee
actually took action and recommended the plan to you, so it's -- Shaun is acting
. for -- as the voice of the committee at this point. Mr. Wardle is. Excuse me.
Wardle: Thank you.
De Weerd: No questions for Mr. Wardle? Okay. Thank you. This is a public
hearing. Is there anyone who would like to provide testimony on this Item No.
19? Okay. Seeing none, Council?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we close the public hearing for Item No. 19, Meridian
Downtown Striping Plan.
Gorton: Second.
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 19. Any discussion? I
guess just a comment. I'm thrilled to see that this is finally done. Talk about a
lengthy process. Madam Clerk, will you, please, call roll.
Holman: Madam Mayor, the motion was to close the public hearing.
De Weerd: Oh, yes. Sony. I was already voting on the striping plan. All those
in favor say aye. Okay. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Hey, we haven't voted not to approve it yet, we just closed the public
hearing.
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August 26, 2008
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Borton: Madam Mayor? All kidding aside, I wanted to say thanks to Mr. Wardle
here and the efforts to do this and it's a lengthy process, it's critically important
for downtown, but it's lengthy because you did it the right way and you got the
right people involved and it takes kind of a plodding process to do that and you
did it and you steered it through and I appreciate the effort. I know it was a long
time coming. So, good job.
Wardle: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Mr. Borton, and I believe that you have the
first of three scheduled readings as Item No. 20 at the end of your agenda and I
appreciate that. And, Mr. Borton, I believe I heard the term Mr. Mom utilized this
evening, so I'm going to remember that and --
Borton: Did you say something nice?
De Weerd: Well, you know, he's leaving, so when we get to Item 20 you can --
Borton: Okay. Good point.
Item 12: Continued Public Hearing from August 12, 2008: PP 08-007
Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 21 building lots on 12.62
acres for Una Mas by Una Mas, LLC - 3945 E. Ustick Road:
De Weerd: Okay. Item 12 was also asked to be continued until September
22nd. Council, do I have a motion?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we continue Item No. 12 until September 23rd.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to continue Item 12 to September
22nd. All those in favor say aye.
Bird: 23rd.
De Weerd: 23rd. Sony. I will be here on the 22nd.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Meridian City Council
August 26, 2008
Page 16 of 65
Item 13: Public Hearing: AZ 08-007 Request for Annexation and Zoning of
4.79 acres from RUT to C-C zoning district for Shops at Victory by
LDR-I I/DMG, LLC - 3210 S. Eagle Road:
Item 14: Public Hearing: PP 08-006 Request for Preliminary Plat for 3
building lots on 3.68 acres in a proposed C-C zoning district for
Shops at Victory by LDR-II/DMG, LLC - 3210 S. Eagle Road:
Item 15: Public Hearing: CUP 08-011 Request for Conditional Use Permit
approval for adrive-thru pharmacy in a proposed C-C zoning
district within 300 feet of an existing residence per UDC 11-4-3-11
for Shops at Victory by LDR-II/DMG, LLC - 3210 S. Eagle Road:
De Weerd: Okay. I'm going to get a fresh start on this one. Public hearings on
Items 13, 14 and 15, on AZ 08-007, PP 08-006, and CUP 08-011. I will open
these three public hearings with staff comments.
Borton: Madam Mayor, I do need to recuse myself from the application.
De Weerd: Okay.
Canning: And, Madam Mayor, on that last striping plan, really, the credit goes --
a lot of it goes to the Mayor's office, who often doesn't get the credit they
deserve, but they spent enormous efforts getting -- pulling the committee and
doing what needed to be done. So, thanks to them as well.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Bird.
Bird: I second that. Robert and Will worked their fannies off getting that set up.
De Weerd: And sometimes coordinating schedules is not as easy as it seems,
like it should be. But thank you for that comment and I hope you will pass that
on.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is the Shops at Victory
project. It's located at 3210 South Eagle Road, on the southeast comer of
Victory and Eagle Road. The applications before you tonight are preliminary plat
and conditional use approval and annexation and zoning. The applicant is
requesting annexation and zoning of 4.79 acres to C-C zoning and, then, a
preliminary plat for three commercial building lots on 3.6 acres of land.
Alternative compliance is also being requested to reduce the buffer width in
certain areas adjacent to the residential use along the southern property
boundary. Lastly, the applicant requests conditional use approval of a drive-thru
pharmacy in the proposed C-C zoning district within 300 feet of an existing
Meridian City Council
August 26, 2008
Page 17 of 65
residence. The proposed development is planned to include neighborhood
commercial retail uses, such as the drugstore, complimentary retail shops,
services, office, and restaurant components. The final mix of these uses will be
dependent on market conditions at the time of development. I wanted to point
out a number of the DA provisions -- the kind of site specific DA provisions and
those include that the applicant shall construct a minimum six foot tall Verti-
Crete, which is a sound wall, adjacent to a residential property to the south in the
areas where the buffer width is below the required 25 feet, as shown on the
fencing plan, and as approved in the alternative compliance. They will also
construct a minimum six foot tall solid vinyl fencing in all other areas along the
perimeter boundary adjacent to residential uses. The second one is that access
to the site shall only be provided from the one full access point to and from Eagle
Road, located as far north as possible, in compliance with ACRD distance
requirements for the intersection. So, what that means is on Eagle Road you
won't have the two entrances, you will just have one and, then, they need to
move this one as far north as possible, while still maintaining the ACHD
intersection separation requirements from Victory Road. Then on Victory Road
you will have one full access and one right-in, right-out only. The third item is to
provide a pedestrian connection, which is -- includes a pathway and a break in
the fence from the site to the future Harcourt Subdivision, which is to the east,
and, additionally, a pedestrian connection to the property to the south,
somewhere along here. And there will be additional testimony on that as we go
on tonight. Fourth, a minimum of two buildings shall be constructed on the site
and a maximum building footprint of any one building shall not exceed 20,000
square feet. Hours of operation for the businesses within the development shall
be restricted to the hours of 6:00 a.m. and 10:00 p.m. The detailed site plan and
building elevation submitted with any future CUP and/or CZC application for the
site shall substantially comply with the conceptual site plan and building
elevations in this staff report, which I'll show you those elevations in a moment.
And the applicant shall submit a letter of final approval of Ada County
Development Services for the boundary line adjustment and the recorded copy of
the record of survey. And I -- let me go up for a second. As you can see, the
parcel shaped now extends quite a bit further south. They are adjusting the
property with Mr. Aldridge. He owns this property. So, they are picking up a
portion here and giving away a portion of this southern flag. And you can see
that there. Now, I can go through some of those elevations. This is the drive-
thru location on the south side of the building. And here are the elevations.
That's for the pharmacy. For the Walgreens, for Mr. Rountree, who is already
smiling.
De Weerd: I don't think he was smiling.
Canning: And, then, these are the other pads. The Commission recommended
approval at their July 17th, 2008, public hearing. Tamara Thompson, Bob
Aldridge, Bob Carpenter, and Greg Owens all spoke in favor. No one spoke in
opposition or commented. And we received written testimony from Charles
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August 26, 2008
Page 18 of 65
Axlerod. The key issues of discussion by the Commission were the eligibility of
the site for reimbursement agreement with the city for a main line extension to
the site. The extent of the Verti-Crete wall fencing along the south property
boundary. The number, type, and location of access points to the site from Eagle
and Victory Roads and the proximity of the southern access point for the site to
Eagle Road in relation to Falcon Drive. The key Commission changes to the
staff recommendation were to modify DA provision G, page 10, to restrict access
to and from the site to one full access point to Eagle Road, located as far north
as possible in compliance with ACHD distance requirements. And also to allow
both access points to Victory Road as proposed by the applicant. We do have a
couple of minor outstanding issues for the Council. One is the access points to
and from the site and the second is installing the sidewalk along Eagle Drive to
Falcon Drive. And, again, going back to this, we are going to have a small
section of sidewalk that because of the property boundary adjustment will not get
built, so it would be in this general location. You may recall that the Council
recently approved Maxfield, which will construct the whole sidewalk along this
portion. So, we will have a good section of sidewalk along Eagle Road, but we
will be missing a small portion. We contacted the applicant this afternoon about
possibly providing that and she has a possible solution with regard to that issue
and I'll let her bring that up. And with that I will answer any questions that
Council may have.
De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Anna, to the east of this parcel -- I know the concept plan shows an
access right on the property line and our history with the proposed retail outlet, at
this point being negative towards cross-access agreements, has that been
considered for the potential future development to the east?
Canning: To these properties to the east?
Rountree: Yes.
Canning: We are proposing just a pedestrian access. This was approved -- you
have an approved preliminary plat for a residential development to the east. Did
that not answer your question, sir?
Rountree: That helps. But we do have a pedestrian way through there?
Canning: Yes.
Rountree: Okay.
Meridian City Council
August 26, 2008
Page 19 of 65
Canning: And it stubs to a pedestrian pathway in Harcourt Subdivision.
Rountree: All right.
De Weerd: Okay. Anything further from Council at this time? Is the applicant
here?
If you will, please, state your name and address for the record.
Ballard: I will. My name is Brian Ballard. I'm an attorney with Hawley Troxell,
877 Main, Boise. 83702.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Ballard: Thank you. And it's a pleasure to be here this evening with you. This is,
perhaps, the first time that I had the opportunity to appear in front of you. I'm
pleased to be able to do that. I would explain to you first why Greg Goins, who is
the partner and the applicant developer, excuse me, is not here, he's -- to put it
bluntly, his father lies on his death bed and so Greg is back there with him and I
volunteered to get thrown under the bus in his stead, so here I am, so --
De Weerd: Congratulations.
Rountree: We won't run over you many times.
Ballard: Also with me tonight I'm very pleased to have Deb Nelson from the law
firm of Givens Pursley here with me. And also Tamara Thompson from
Landmark Development Group. It's always a pleasure to associate with anybody
from Givens Pursley and I'm pleased that Deb is here. Dave McKinney, Greg's
partner, and also Greg is his good friend and he's offered to be here as well for
backup as needed. First of all, I think it's very important that in your review of the
records you will note that the developer has been very conscientious in working
with the neighborhood. I think that's important to you and it's important to this
developer. There was no objection at the lower hearing and I think that's
because, first of all, the neighborhood is in need of this mixed -- mixed use
project commercial opportunity, if you will. So, they want this to happen. And,
second of all, I think that the developers want to do what's right. If that's a
mantra that they have, then, I think it's a good one. And doing what's right I
suspect will oft times meet with the neighbors' approval and the result of the
appropriate interaction is a proposal which offers a high quality commercial
development in the neighborhood that needs and appreciates the services that
will be made available. The odd thing is that the applicant is very much in favor
of all of what's gone on, is happy with and supports the P&Z's recommendation
as made with just -- just a few minor comments, perhaps, and, then, one a bit
more major issue and that certainly has to do with the access and we will talk
about that in a minute. The minor comments, with respect to the Verti-Crete
Meridian City Council
August 26, 2008
Page 20 of 65
block or sound wall, which separates the project from our good neighbor to south
Mr. Aldridge, the developer -- and I don't know whether you're aware of this or
not, has agreed to extend that a bit longer to the east than what is required and
that was done at the option of Mr. Aldridge. We talked to him and he said that
we could either do the vinyl fence or do the extension of the sound wall and he
chose the extension of the sound wall, so we have done that, indicating, again,
the fact that we have worked pretty hard with the neighborhoods and Mr.
Aldridge is here tonight, if he has any comments to offer on that he will do so.
With respect to the connectivity issues, Councilman Rountree brings up a good
point, but we have met with our neighbors to the east and it's a reciprocal sort of
connectivity issue back and forth between those properties and it's a residential
development and they are -- they are most pleased, as are we, with the result of
that mutual agreement. As regards, again, our good neighbor to the south, Mr.
Aldridge, the five acre residential parcel owned by him is still in the county. We
simply -- I guess probably we came into this tonight saying we were willing to
offer yes as an answer and, then, have you all tell us how to -- how to get you to
accept that answer and I think we have a solution. Anna, we chatted with her,
and we also chatted with Mr. Aldridge and the issue with respect to the
connectivity to the south was that Mr. Aldridge doesn't have his plans finalized
and, therefore, it wouldn't make a heck of a lot of sense to put something in now
that doesn't meet with his final plans. And, then, Anna came up with the fact that
there is going to be a bit of a gap in the sidewalk along the street, so I think that
we'd like to offer to take care of that problem for you with respect to the sidewalk,
in exchange with no connectivity elsewhere. In other words, just swap the build
out of the sidewalk, if you will, through that gap area, in exchange for which that
would sufFice as the connectivity with our neighbors to the south and we can
either do that with -- I think that Mr. Aldridge will be here to speak to that issue
and I think he proposes an easement of some sort across his portion of the
property that will be needed to build that sidewalk and we chatted briefly with Mr.
Inselman from ACHD and I think that the way it's proposed is that we can either
put the money into trust or we can, pursuant to their plan, build that little gap
sidewalk, if you will, on our own. I would propose that maybe that's an item for
inclusion in the DA, which we could just work out the details and make sure that
that's covered adequately with everyone. Does that adequately state the way
that we have sort of agreed? So, we would offer that as a marvelous solution to
this sticky little problem. The real issue, then, that we come to, of course, is that
whereas we are happy with the three exits, we really think that the four access
points would be in order and a bit of history, as I understand it, may be helpful to
your decision. When the applicant approached the owner of this site, the Axlerod
Trust, one of the first items reviewed was the condemnation sale and purchase
agreement with ACHD, pursuant to which ACHD contractually -- contractually
agreed that in addition to the monetary amount of just compensation, ACHD also
contractually obligated itself, as part of the negotiations in the condemnation
proceedings, to construct four commercial curb returns and I stress the word
commercial, because I think there was at one time some concern that this was
really for -- intended for residential purposes. It was not -- never has been
Meridian City Council
August 26, 2008
Page 21 of 65
intended for residential, it's been commercial from the get go and ACHD agreed
that part of the compensation would be that ACHD would construct those four
access points and one full tum on the Victory, one right-in, right-out, one full tum
on Eagle, one right-in, right-out. So, these four commercial access points were
approved, planned, funding was provided 'and it was scheduled on ACHD's work
plan. So, taking -- taking its cue from that which ACRD contractually obligated
itself to do, we asked -- the developer asked for the construction drawings from
ACHD and those were stamped September 28th, '07, and I think that we have
copies of those available for you for your review and I also think that Tamara has
marked the particular pages upon which are drawn the four access points. May
we -- yeah. We will get those handed out to you. Cutting to the chase a little bit
quickly, your review of those marked pages will indicate to you that the site plan
that you see up on the wall matches precisely -- matches exactly the four access
points that were planned by ACRD less than a year ago and shown on these
drawings. So, the applicant simply followed that template and said if it has been
approved by ACHD, has been planned for, has been funded as part of the plan,
meets with policy, and is the deal, then, it's only fair, probably, to expect that
that's the deal. So, we proceeded with the site plan based upon that plan that
exactly matches the ACHD construction drawings. Now, with all due respect,
what we find now is that in this process of annexation ACRD has, again,
approved those four access points and you will note in the ACRD approval report
that's in your file that that's exactly what they have done, they have approved
those four access points with a little bit of a twist that has an interesting aspect.
It's presented in the form of an option and I suspect that it was best stated by
staff person Wafters, who said in her testimony before the -- or presentation
before the P&Z that ACHD has allowed the applicant an option to either have the
two full access points or, as they have shown on their plan, with two right-in,
right-outs close to the intersection, along with the two full access points. Now,
the premise upon which ACHD, to my understanding has set that option before
you, as opposed to just approving the four access points, is that the option allows
the opportunity for the applicant to choose a proposal that will make the
circulation within the site better. The exact words is that choosing option --
choosing door number two would improve circulation within the site. So, ACHD
approves the four access plan -- four access site plan, but also says that if the
applicant chooses the two access option, such will improve on-site circulation.
Well, in reaction to that, the first thing that we did -- and you have in your file a
letter that we have submitted from Gary Funkhauser of Stanley Consultants and
Mr. Funkhauser reviewed the matter and he concluded the last part of his report
to you by saying: I concur with ACHD in their design engineer -- six mile
engineering, that the four driveways proposed to service the southeast comer
property will safely accommodate the traffic proposed for that site and meet
current ACRD access and spacing policy. Now, the next thing that we did, after
our own safety engineer said that what ACHD originally agreed to do in its
condemnation agreement is safe and meets with current access and spacing
policy, the next thing that we did is that we test ACHD's offer with respect to on-
site circulation and we now have, for presentation to you, a site plan that's been
Meridian City Council
August 26, 2008
Page 22 of 65
marked up showing you the results of an application of traffic flow through the
center, based upon that -- that option, that door number two. And I'll wait for that
to be passed out, so that you can look at it briefly.
De Weerd: Just want you to note that the light is blinking, Brian.
Ballard: So are my eyes. I'll see if I can get done fairly quickly.
De Weerd: Since it is your first time in front of us, you are limited to your time.
Ballard: Okay. All right. So, we tested out the theory -- if you will look at that
map and you will see that the truck, as the pose it, it doesn't work. They bump
into the comers, they can't get out. If we expect to entice and get the high quality
tenants into this center that you want and deserve, then, I would say to you that
we should stick with the plan that ACHD originally proposed that was safe that
was within the policy, it's own policy. That as of a year ago was on the
construction drawings and they were going to put it in. So, I will conclude,
Mayor. Thank you. We are here tonight to say yes to everything, essentially,
that's been proposed. Yes and more to the Verti-Crete wall. Yes to the
pedestrian connectivity with just a little bit of a twist, we are going to swap out the
sidewalk and we will say yes to the four access option A. We will choose that
option and subject to the foregoing, then, we are, essentially, very happy with
what's gone on here and would be pleased to answer any questions you might
have.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, questions? Okay. I do have a question. This
is a nasty intersection and it's also an intersection whose improvement has
continually been delayed. When is the anticipated construction date and how do
you think you will get or attract retailers with the congestion that happens at this
intersection with the four way stop?
Ballard: Madam Mayor, I think that one thing I can call to your attention that I do
know about and I may have to rely upon others to fill in the background. I know
this is scheduled to be signalized on ACHD's five year work plan. So, there is a
signal that is supposed to be there pretty soon, which should alleviate some of
the congestion there.
De Weerd: And it's supposed to be built this year, I think, originally. And it keeps
getting delayed. But I know it's on the five year work plan, but --
Thompson: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Tamara Thompson. 2462
Sunshine Drive in Boise. I have been in contact with the construction department
for ACHD and what they have given me is the work is scheduled to begin in their
fiscal year 2010, but their fiscal year is a little bit different than the calendar year,
so that means fall of 2009. So, we are about a year away.
Meridian City Council
August 26, 2008
Page 23 of 65
De Weerd: Okay. I didn't see Gary here, so I might have questions for him, too.
Rountree: There is two Gary's here.
Thompson: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. This is a public hearing. I do have two people that have
signed up on the public hearing sheet. If you would like to provide testimony
when I call your name, please, come forward at that time. Bob Aldridge has
signed up for.
Aldridge: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Bob Aldridge. 3300 Falcon
Drive. If you go back to the aerial. Of the actual aerial site. Thank you.
De Weerd: The technology in this facility is not always --
Aldridge: Unmatched, Madam Mayor. I'm the property here and I first want to
state that as they have indicated, it has been an absolute joy to work with them. I
went into this with a great deal of trepidation. I have lived on this property for 25
years. I intend, if possible, to be at least another ten there. I'm the little white
blob and hope I stay that way for a long time. So, my concerns are those of the
landowner is going to stay there. The things that, first of all, in confirmation with
what they said, along this area they have agreed to extend that Verti-Crete wall
and that purely as a favor to me, realistically. That's my backyard and it's going
to make it much better looking, instead of having half Verti-Crete and, then, half
vinyl fence. And they did that, which is a considerable expense to them.
Number two in this area. I certainly agree that because I'm going to keep this
residential, it makes no sense to have holes someplace in this wall, when I don't
even have a clue what ten years or maybe even 20 from now, may be
development and I'm perfectly willing to do an easement agreement to allow
sidewalk along here. I think that makes eminent sense and it greatly improves
the neighborhood. The item that I have the greatest concern with is traffic and
that's where I want to raise a couple of issues. Back when this particular
development was done, the original plans called for East Falcon to be connected
here and come across and exit there. I worked at that time with that developer
and ACHD and it was moved down here. Part of the reason for that is that there
is a crest right here and when you come up at Falcon Drive you have -- and I
tested it as I came here, a four second window for traffic coming over that. That's
with the current situation where they are coming to a flashing red light and a stop
sign. If they are at high rates of speed, it would be less than that. So, when you
come out you have to look to your left and, then, when you exit you are gunning
to get out and get into the traffic. The current plan calls for the entrance here.
That's approximately a hundred feet or a little bit more. Under my testing for me,
I'm a medium heavy foot, but it was about three seconds to get there. So, what I
have proposed at the P8Z hearing was that this entrance be moved somewhat to
the north, give a little bit more room in order to allow some time for traffic coming
Meridian City Council
August 26, 2008
Page 24 of 65
out of here to, then, merge in, because you're going to have traffic coming in,
you're going to have traffic that's coming from here, and eventually when this 60
acre -- excuse me, the 60 platted subdivision around me develops, one of their
roads comes out and comes right here at the edge of the property and they are
also developing in the cul-de-sac here. So, there is going to be more traffic
coming out. I have no problem with having the second right-in, right-out. As a
matter of fact, speaking as someone who drives this all the time, I would prefer
that, because that's going to shift some of this traffic up and allow them to exit
there. Otherwise, we would be exiting here and crossing the traffic coming from
Falcon or coming in. So, the only thing I would request -- otherwise being in full
agreement, is that this be moved, to the extent possible, to the north to give that
additional ability to have merging traffic from Falcon Drive come and merge into
Eagle Road traffic. I recognize the red light has come on. I'm sorry to have
inflicted you with yet another attorney in this whole process. I would be happy to
answer any questions.
De Weerd: And it was a little concerning when I saw several attorneys in our
audience.
Nary: Makes you feel safe, doesn't it.
De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Rountree: I have none.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Is there any possibility -- okay. Just counting the accesses on both
sides, one, two, three, four in a short distance there. It doesn't sound like a good
idea to me. Is there any possibility of you and what looks like three other people
that have Falcon Lane as your access, would actually sell them that piece and
share that access with them, so that their access will stop in lane, plus maybe
one other?
Aldridge: In response to that, Councilman, there are various technical reasons
why that just doesn't work. Trying to come in from here you're far too close to the
Falcon intersection, as I understand it. And that was explored. The real time
when Ithink -- and I think the part I blew it by not showing up and requesting it, is
when this was approved for the assisted living units, it would have been nice to
have readjusted the Falcon Road interchange at that time, move it a little bit to
the south, and that would have greatly helped that whole situation. That's locked
in place. That's been fully approved by City Council and is starting construction.
So, with that and the access they have right across from my driveway, that will be
handy, because when I get done with my ten years I can just put my roller skates
Meridian City Council
August 26, 2008
Page 25 of 65
on and go right down into the assisted living units. That's simply too much too
close to try to do that. That was looked at early on in the process and that simply
couldn't work.
Zaremba: Okay. Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any other questions?
Bird: I have none, Mayor.
Rountree: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. The only other person I have signed up is Bob
Carpenter, who also signed up for.
Carpenter: Bob Carpenter. 3250 East Victory Road, Meridian, Idaho.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Carpenter: I am not a lawyer.
De Weerd: And thank you.
Rountree: Congratulations.
Carpenter: My wife and I own the property right here on the north side of the
property in question and have about nine acres there and we have been very
pleased with Mr. Goins and the development that they are proposing here. I
don't have an opinion on the right-in, right-outs or full access points on Eagle
Road, although what Mr. Aldridge stated about the two of them taking pressure
off just one, tends to make some sense. I'd like to see the -- it's the first time I
have seen the operation hours of 6:00 to 10:00 and 10:00 o'clock's kind of a bad
time to close a Walgreens, if we are still across the street, because I like to watch
the news and, then, tend to like to have milk and cookies and if I run out of milk I
could run across the street, if it doesn't close until say 11:00 or 12:00. So, that's
my -- that's my most serious problem with the whole thing.
De Weerd: You may have to change some habits.
Carpenter: I may have to. I don't know.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, that's the first time I have heard a sweet tooth as the
reason why. That's quite original.
De Weerd: It is the first time we have had a neighbor testify to extend the hours,
too, I might say.
Meridian City Council
August 26, 2008
Page 26 of 65
Carpenter: Well, when we -- when we -- when you approved the C-C zoning
here a couple of years ago for this area, we thought the road would be in by now
and so forth and -- and the property would be on and developed. For my
understanding, ACHD in their 2009, 2010 budget hearings tomorrow, I believe,
show Eagle Road on the 2010 budget. So, that corresponds with what they said
about it. I think they want to get the road down there at the bridge at the fire
station done starting October of 2009, so they can meet that winter season. So,
I'll stand for any questions.
De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Rountree: I have none. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, sir. This is a public hearing. Is there anyone who would
like to provide testimony on this application?
Wheeler: Madam Mayor, Council Members, my name is Nate Wheeler. 2989
East Loon Creek, Meridian, Idaho. 83642. I live in Thousand Springs and I have
lived there, have a family, and I grew up off of Cloverdale in between Victory and
Amity and so this intersection here of Victory and Eagle is very familiar to me.
I'm also working with some of the landowners on the northwest comer. I think
that this project that's going in here is a great service to south of the interstate.
It's very much needed and especially it's just a logical choice for that. The
developer that's here is -- that's behind this project is seasoned, good, working
well with the neighbors, so I think what is planned is and happening here seems
to be very beneficial to the community. My biggest concem, as you have already
expressed, Madam Mayor, is the danger of this intersection here. For three
years I drove through this intersection at least twice a day going to high school
and I remember when I got my driver's license in 1990 I was 16 years old. My
dad looked at me and said you don't go through that intersection and I did one
time and it was almost of life-ending accident that I got into. So, I have some
strong concerns about that intersection there. I know that Meridian has done a
great job in putting up a four way signalized light there, which has really turned
down the risk that's in this intersection, but with the accesses that are proposed
here, I think we are ready to resurrect that and that's my biggest concem. You
have a narrow two lane road south of Victory Road that is if someone was to turn
-- that's a 50 mile an hour road. If someone is to stop, make alert-hand access
onto the southeast comer, they have to not only navigate Falcon Drive, they also
have to navigate Schauer, which is the community for Medford Place. They also
have to make sure that that blind spot that's there that they are seeing enough
cars, plus you also have Roan Street, which is the main access into Tuscany,
1,100 plus sites there and the new Sienna K through 8 school, which is 752
student capacity there. So, you have buses, you have afternoon kindergarten.
You have -- you have commuters coming in and out of it and there is no way to
get around them to the right, if you were to access this place to the left. What I
Meridian City Council
August 26, 2008
Page 27 of 65
think would be a good solution is to only allow aright-in, right-out until the road
improvements happen. At that juncture allow a full access onto the property.
That would allow median tum for somebody who -- a patron that wanted to visit
the southeast comer, could move into that, traffic could still flow, there would be
no danger of turf farm trucks that come back and forth for the turf company that's
located at Lake Hazel and Eagle Road. Also, the buses that would come up and
down that place and just normal commuter traffic that happens from all the
subdivisions that are south of there, Kingsbridge, F&C Financial, or investment
that's there, Tuscany, all of that would happen -- I think a right-in, right-out would
be the best option until the road improvements are finalized, then, allow a full
access there. I think that's the safest option. I'll stand for any questions.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: I have none.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Any further testimony? I guess I would like
comment from ACHD. And a guarantee on that intersection improvement.
Inselman: I'm afraid I'm the wrong guy. Madam Mayor, Gary Inselman,
representing Ada County Highway District, 3775 North Adams, Garden City.
De Weerd: Thank you. Gary, I guess my question is what are the plans and
time schedule for that intersection?
Inselman: The plans are as has been testified and it is proposed in our 2010
fiscal year budget and in our five year -- current five year work plan for the 2010
fiscal year construction.
De Weerd: And so does that mean in 2010 construction that it would start in fall
of 2009?
Inselman: Generally that's the time frame we would begin the work at the bridge
over the Ridenbaugh when water went out of the canal in the fall of '09 and, then,
complete the work -- the road work and the intersection in the spring was
generally how that would work.
De Weerd: Okay. So, my next probably more difficult question for you is as you
go through balancing, is this going to be delayed again? I mean this has been a
priority for our community for some time and it hasn't mattered that it's been a
priority and, unfortunately, I can't awaken the residents of south Meridian enough
to scream loudly at ACHD. It's only been us. But with the challenges of budget
and if the registration fee does not increase on or be re-what-evered, what is the
likelihood that this will stay in the slot that it's in?
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August 26, 2008
Page 28 of 65
Inselman: Madam Mayor, I would probably say that's the million dollar question.
De Weerd: Your crystal ball, please.
Inselman: We recognize that it's a high priority for the city and it's a priority for
ACHD. I can tell you that our current budget going before our commission for'09
and projected budget for '10 in our hearing tomorrow night is much more
conservative than we have been in the past. I'm not sure how much you followed
our past five year work plan process and budgeting, but we --
De Weerd: We follow it.
Inselman: -- consistently over-programmed in the past. We have not done that
in this budget year. They are both balanced for '09 and '10. So, if revenues
come in as projected, which we are fairly conservative in those projections again
'09 and '10, the likelihood of this slipping is considerably less than in past years.
But, again, as you know, there are no guarantees if our effort at the renewal of
the registration fees fails, if revenues continue to decline more than we have
projected, who knows what projects would have to slip to keep a balanced
budget.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Council, any questions for Gary?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Bird: I do have one. It's not on a time deal. What is a signalized intersection
costing, approximately, Gary? Something like we put in on McMillan and Ten
Mile.
Inselman: An intersection like that we are talking about a million and a half, two
million.
Bird: Thank you.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I realize ACRD apparently has approved all the accesses that have
been talked about, but that does seem odd that in that short distance there are
four accesses, one the other side and, then, three pretty close together on the
east side. I don't know if I read it right, but it looked to me on one of them like the
-- if they have -- if this project gets two accesses to Eagle and the south access
Meridian City Council
August 26, 2008
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is 100 feet from Falcon -- at least that's what it looked like to me. Is that
reasonable?
Inselman: Councilman Zaremba, we had in our purchase and sale agreement
with the former owner of the land the agreement to build the access points as he
requested, but as you know we do not deed access points, we do not guarantee
them into the future. So, at our initial review of this application we suggested the
alternative we put in our reports, perhaps we should consolidate -- have a couple
of access points instead of four. The problem arose because we had not
contracted the project yet, we still have this agreement out there saying we are
going to build four access points. So, rather than -- and they do technically meet
the minimums of our policy. Our policy does allow us to review access points for
the development application with, first, the assertion that access to arterials is
restricted. Next every parcel needs an annex to a public road. Next what's
necessary and reasonable to serve the parcel and the project. And, then, what --
you know, does it meet our spacing requirements. Mr. Ballard's right, we did
agree to build four commercial access points with the project. We did not
guarantee them into perpetuity. If they had already been built, we'd probably be
recommending that they be modified, because there is no traffic reason that this
parcel has to have four. But we allowed it in our report, because we agreed to it
in the sale and purchase agreement and we have not built the project yet, so
that's where we are at. We still think it would be reasonable what your staff is
recommending, but we didn't feel it was worth the potential battle over the
language of that sale agreement and the review of the application to require it, so
we wrote our staff conditions as an either/or.
Zaremba: Thank you.
Inselman: Okay.
De Weerd: Okay. Nothing further from Council?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Thank you, Gary.
Inselman: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Last call for public testimony. Don't worry, you get the last
word. Okay. Rebuttal comments.
Ballard: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Brian Ballard, attorney for the applicant. I
think that the time limit's going to be probably practically okay, because it's -- we
are a year away from getting anything built and opened anyhow, at least. I
chatted with Tamara about that and so I think that's a moot point, essentially.
Meridian City Council
August 26, 2008
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De Weerd: So, if your conditional -- or your CO were tied to the intersection --
Ballard: See, I think that asks for a little bit too much, Madam Mayor. I think
that --
De Weerd: I can always ask.
Ballard: I know, but you have asked for maybe a little too much with that one,
because it ties it to something that's probably not fair, in all deference to Mr.
Inselman in his good comments. We -- if you try to entice the national tenant to
come in and do a good job and you stillborn the opening, because you can't get
to the site, we -- it's not going to work. When we have to at least have some
assurance that when we open doors that we are going to have the access, that --
and Iwould repeat again, ACRD is contractually obligated to provide under that
agreement under the condemnation agreement -- and I understand the context of
the annexation and all of that, but the fact that you don't guarantee it -- every
contract has no guarantee that it will be performed. Everybody to a contract has
the ability to default under that contract and I, essentially, think that's what's
happening. If they don't build it, I think that's a default under that agreement.
The compensation that was paid was paid in two ways, money, but also the
promise by ACHD to do what it is they said they would do and the price that was
paid was less because of that. You understand that a piece of property with four
access points or a piece of property with three access points, that which is taken
away is one access point, that's worth some money, and I don't think that it's
quite right or fair that because of the inability to perform as what it's promised to
do, that somehow that gets gerrymandered into an, oh, sorry, we took your
access and we didn't pay you for it. I mean that's just kind of a side bar.
Because I think there is so much more at play here than we -- we sort of think
about. What I have to repeat is that this was planned, it's within policy, there is
drawings for it, it's not minimums, it meets policy. Now, if we can work to help
Mr. Aldridge with respect to moving that as far north as we can, we will do
whatever we can to do that, to accommodate him. But he's right, having that
right-in, right-out closer to the intersection will mitigate some of the traffic that
comes his way. It's approved, it's planned, it's been funded, it's supposed to
have been built and I think that we fairly ought to be able to rely upon that when
we come before you and say come on, it's only fair.
De Weerd: You know, I guess just my observation. We have a little bit different,
I think, responsibility in our decision making than the highway district. Ours are
based on safety. Public safety is our first responsibility. What we have found
through experience on Eagle Road is that more is not necessarily better and in
some cases can be a detriment. There is where you have a county wide
highway district and a city land use decision making that can have conflict and
certainly that decision is this Council's to make, as far as the land use side of it.
You know, if your argument is those should have been built, I totally agree that
intersection is supposed to have been built. Unfortunately, it's not. And when we
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August 26, 2008
Page 31 of 65
look at these comers in changing the Comprehensive Plan to allow commercial,
it really was on the premise that those -- that intersection would be built. Traffic
is horrible in that area and, you know, I don't know the decision this Council's
going to make, but development before a needed improvement adding more
traffic to an area that is already choked, I don't know if the responsibility that the
city has is being met and those are my concems.
Ballard: Madam Mayor, I have thought about those concems and I have tried to
come up with a good answer, because sort of expected that maybe you might
want to talk about that a little bit and Ihave -- have to agree with you to a certain
extent, but -- I'm reading a book right now, it's the biography of John Adams and
the quote: It is what it is occurred back then. There was a politician who said it
is what it is, it can't be something else. It doesn't work that way. This is what it
is. It is not Eagle Road as it goes down through your commercial core. So, it's a
little bit different. It stands on its own. Out here, as it stands on its own, under
the guidance of your exclusive road jurisdiction, ACRD, who is supposed to serve
as the safety engineer for you, under that guise they looked at it less than a year
ago and made drawings and said -- and approved -- and again approved today in
their conditional approval, they approved a four access approach as being safe,
as being within policy, and being funded and ready to go. You're sort of in -- I'm
in the same situation you're in, we are depending upon ACHD -- and it's not
Gary's fault, I mean we are depending upon them to do what it is that they say
they are going to do. There is nothing more that we can do. I think that we are
entitled to be treated to obtain -- to get what we were promised, essentially, when
we looked at this, which was something that had already been approved as being
safe and effective and was being planned and was going to be built and it will be
built. I mean the signal will go in and it will be built and I think that the way that I
said before, that the timing is enough out there that I think it's all going to work,
but that's about -- that's about the best I can do. This is what it is. It is not what
has already been created and it can't be. So, I think that you should approve
what that is -- what ACHD -- they have the exclusive jurisdiction. They are
saying that is safe, it meets policy, and we will work with Mr. Aldridge to the
extent that we can to accommodate his desire, because, again, we are working
with the neighbors and you have seen the result, we are trying to do the right
thing. So, I'd like for you to do the right thing, too.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: This it is a little different. Would you like to be a participant, your
development, in putting the lights and working on that intersection and getting
pay back through impact fees from your project and the other comers and stuff,
like we have had out at the north end? It certainly does help.
Meridian City Council
August 26, 2008
Page 32 of 65
Ballard: I anticipated that that's where you were going, Councilman. That's why
my knee was -- my leg was jumping up and down. It's a new issue.
De Weerd: You know -- and I guess maybe not even being pay back for impact
fees, but being paid back at the time frame that ACRD had, because sometimes
impact fees are a little bit slower coming in than what a fully funded project might
have been.
Ballard: I think that puts Mr. Inselman unfairly on the spot, perhaps, because we
are --
De Weerd: That's all right.
Ballard: Okay.
Rountree: We like to do that.
Ballard: Secretly so do I. I don't know.
have got to talk about. I don't -- I'm n
program that we just made here tonight?
It's a new issue. It's something that we
~t really -- to be a participant in a new
Bird: No. I mean we have had it done two or three times within our deal. We
have had intersections improved by developers for their projects and not even
any guarantees of pay back.
De Weerd: Plus the economic --
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I'm just going to throw this out for Brian to consider,
with Mr. Bird's comment, to me it's a matter of timing. I'm with you on the access.
I think the access is -- you know, we are not in a win situation if we do something
other than that, if our transportation officials that we rely on say it can be done.
However, it seems to be a disadvantage to your developer as well to invest funds
out there, particularly for an organization who is in the market, at least they are
advertising in the market of human health and services. To put a store out there
when the intersection potentially could remain a two lane rural four way stop
intersection when your doors are about to open and ACHD has slid the project
one more time and that's nothing against ACHD, they are working within the
bounds of reality. They can only spend as much money as they have got.
Ballard: I agree.
Rountree: And on this particular intersection we have been there twice the past
couple years. It just keeps moving on out, because there are other things that in
their prioritization scheme of life take precedence over their funding.
Ballard: Yes.
Meridian City Council
August 26, 2008
Page 33 of 65
Rountree: So, what Councilman Bird is saying is in order to take advantage of
the timing of the people who you represent and the potential national chain want
to open a store, it might be beneficial if you contemplate at building the half of the
infrastructure that borders your property, so you have multiple lanes to utilize for
right-in, right-out and full turning movements at the other two intersections to
minimize the -- what could very well be a significant rear-end accident situation
that would be created with the two lane four way stop happening. It's a timing
issue. If we have the perfect storm in terms of funding and/or door opening and
the ribbon cutting on the new intersection is a week before the ribbon cutting and
your chain coming in there and deciding that now is the time to open, I do know
that they do build buildings and leave them unoccupied for an undetermined
amount of time, because they can get financing that way, but --
Ballard: Well, that's --
Rountree: That's my issue.
Ballard: Councilman Rountree, I agree with your perceptions and your
comments. It's a new issue. It hasn't been brought up before. I think that we
have to take into consideration whether these new issues make it such that you
have unintentionally defeated the economic development now at that comer. So,
that's a problem that you have to weigh as well, which is -- and we all understand
how that works. The problem is that we have -- and Gary said it best, he said
there is no guarantees, so we are between a rock and a hard place here. If I
could have a couple seconds just to chat with my principals to see what they
want to do. Want to take a --
De Weerd: You bet. We will take a five minute recess.
Rountree: I'll throw this out, too. There is probably just as much risk or
guarantee on the other side of that equation. I mean they could go south as well.
Ballard: Absolutely.
De Weerd: Okay. We will recess for five minutes.
(Recess.)
De Weerd: Okay. I will go ahead and call this meeting back to order and we are
still on Items 13, 14 and 15.
Ballard: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Let me begin by saying that our initial
reaction was one of we need some additional time to think about this and we are
probably headed in that direction, but we were able to reach Greg on his cell
phone and we have kicked it around a little bit and we would like to work with you
Meridian City Council
August 26, 2008
Page 34 of 65
and share with you, maybe, a suggestion and the suggestion would be that
based upon the assumption that we would get the approved option one that
ACHD has approved, the four access points, then, we would agree that the
certificate of occupancy would not issue until the road improvements were made,
with -- oh, sorry, Bill.
Canning: That's all right. He doesn't vote.
Ballard: That's not what he told me. So, if we get the option one, which is the
four access points and we would agree, because it's a timing issue and it's a
funding issue, we would agree that there would be no CO until the road
improvements were made, with the option on our part, if there were slippage on
the part of ACHD, we would have the ability to work with them. on some sort
cooperative agreement, reimbursement agreement -- some kind of a cooperative
development agreement, if you will, for want of a better word and work with
ACHD as best we can, one, to hope that they can do this high priority project as
soon as they can, but, two, that if we get what we want, then, we will go along
with what you want, which is the no C of O until it's built and, then, we will work
with ACHD to come up with a way, if they slip, at our option, to see irf we can
work out some sort of a reimbursement mechanism. We are sort of swimming in
new waters here, I think, Councilman Bird, but I'd appreciate anything that you
might offer to that not very well articulated suggestion.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Brian, I think it's great that you have come back with this offer and I don't
see any problems with it at all. You know, as long as no COs are offered until --
or is issued until that is done, at least we have got that in the scope and I, for
one, firmly believe that you need the four accesses, so I have no problem with
that.
De Weerd: Well -- and I could tell you that we will continue to push aggressively
for this intersection improvement and you have three vocal neighbors also in
here that I got your numbers and we will make sure they will be rallying their
neighbors in support. This is an intersection that is long overdue and we have
had a number of the Commissioners also go on the record as saying that as well.
So, certainly, if that is of any reassurance, I can be squeaky and we will definitely
be on your side.
Ballard: Okay.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Any final comments?
Ballard: No.
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August 26, 2008
Page 35 of 65
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Okay. Council, any further information needed
for staff or the applicant?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: If there is no further information needed, I would entertain a motion to
close the public hearings on Items 13, 14 and 15.
Bird: So moved.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearings on these
three items. All in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: If we have no discussion -- first of all, I want to thank the applicant for
cooperating and knowing -- realizing that we do have a problem out there and
trying to help us solve it and we certainly will, as the Mayor and Council, help you
all we can and I know Gary and them will, too. I would move that we approve AZ
08-007 annexation and zoning of 4.79 acres from RUT to C-C for Shops at
Victory, to include all staff, applicant, and public testimony.
Rountree: I'll second that for discussion.
De Weerd: For discussion?
Rountree: Please.
De Weerd: Okay.
Rountree: Do we want the development agreement addressed with this motion?
Bird: Yes. Oh, that's - I'm sorry.
Canning: Yes. I believe the changes to the development agreement that we
have discussed are not providing a pedestrian access to the property to the
south, adding a condition that the applicant will construct a sidewalk in an
easement on the Aldridge property to Falcon Lane, and adding a timing
agreement with regard to the certificate of occupancy having the completions --
Meridian City Council
August 26, 2008
Page 36 of 65
having the intersection improvements complete or giving the applicant an
opportunity to work with ACHD on a funding mechanism.
Rountree: And the four access --
Canning: And the four access points.
Rountree: Two full, two right-in, right-out.
Canning: Shoot.
Bird: That was included in the motion.
De Weerd: That is what Mr. Bird said. Was that what second agreed to?
Rountree: That was what I would agree to after the discussion.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further discussion on this item? Madam Clerk, will you,
please, call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, absent.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd: Thank you. Item 14.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve PP 08-006 with staff, applicant, and public testimony.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 14 with the same
stipulations as were detailed in the prior motion. Is that correct, Mr. Bird?
Bird: Yes, ma'am.
De Weerd: Thank you. Any discussion? Madam Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, absent.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Meridian City Council
August 26, 2008
Page 37 of 65
Canning: Madam Mayor, quick clarification. To Mayor and Council's knowledge
was there any change necessary on the preliminary plat? I don't think there was.
I think it was all just the annexation.
Bird: It was all on the annexation, wasn't it?
De Weerd: It was in the annexation. This shows the points of access. I don't
know if it showed the sidewalk to the south.
Bird: That was in the annexation.
De Weerd: Yes, it did.
Bird: And the fence was in the annexation, too.
De Weerd: The comments were captured I believe with Mr. Aldiridge's property,
so --
Canning: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Roll call.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, absent.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd: Thank you. Item 15. CUP 08-011.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve CUP 08-011 with staff, applicant, public comments.
De Weerd: Do I have a second?
Zaremba: I'll second. Did we want to have a discussion at all about the hours?
De Weerd: I think Mr. Carpenter and his ..sweet tooth, you know, had a real
compelling argument, but I don't think the applicant was asking for extended
hours.
Bird: He didn't ask for any. Did they want it?
Rountree: I guess my point on that is that I don't know that we want to establish
the precedent. We have held with those hours, so --
Meridian City Council
August 26, 2008
Page 38 of 65
Zaremba: Okay.
Bird: That's why I left it alone. They didn't --
De Weerd: Yeah. We just thought that he could change his habit. I know that
Walgreens has good milk. My husband's abig --
Bird: He'll just have to get his sweet tooth a little earlier.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any further pertinent discussion? Okay. Roll call
vote.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, nay; Zaremba, yea; Borton, absent.
MOTION CARRIED: TWO AYES. ONE NAY. ONE ABSENT.
Item 16: Public Hearing: PFP 08-001 Request for Preliminary /Final Plat
approval of 2single-family residential building lots on 0.33 of an
acre in an R-8 zoning district for Fullmer by Jeffrey Fullmer -end
of E. Carlton between E. Fifth Street and Cathy Lane:
De Weerd: Okay. Item 16 is -- oh, could someone get Councilman Gorton.
Okay. Item 16 is a public hearing on PFP 08-_011. I will open this public hearing
with staff comments.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is the Fullmer project. It's
located at the southeast of and at the terminus of East Carlton Street, which is
east of Northeast 5th Street and it's zoned R-8. The development includes two
single family residential lots on .33 of an acre. The property is currently zoned R-
8. The majority of the sight is currently designated Old Town on the Comp Plan
and smaller portion on the north boundary of the site is designated as high
density residential. The portion of the property that lies at the terminus of East
Carlton Street consists of an un-platted land and, then, the southern portion of
the property was previously platted in 1897 as Lot 12 and a portion of Lot 11,
Block 8, of Cottage Home Addition to Meridian Subdivision. The applicant has
done a property boundary adjustment and that's in process, but has not been
recorded and that's to provide frontage for the two adjacent platted properties.
Let me point some of this out. The property as it currently exists -- this is the un-
platted parcel and these are Lots 10, 11 and 12 of the Cottage Home Addition.
You will note that none of these has the required in their -- in their original
configuration none of these have the required frontage on a public street. Parcel
A there has apoint-to-point connection, but that's all. So, the applicant has done
a property boundary adjustment to give frontage on the public street using a
common driveway and now they are seeking a combined preliminary/final plat to
split this lot or this parcel into two lots. The parcel boundary adjustment was
Meridian City Council
August 26, 2008
Page 39 of 65
approved by the planning. department on June 11th and that includes the three
lots previously platted as Cottage Home Addition and the un-platted parcel. And,
then, there is just a note that because the two proposed lots are parcel C at the
property boundary adjustment, the record of survey for the property boundary
adjustment needs to be recorded prior to signature of the final plat by the city
engineer. There is a condition of approval regarding the -- tying the elevations to
this plat. The applicant submitted those elevations as part of the plat and said
that those would be the homes they were building on them and I can show those
to you here. That's a detail of the driveway configuration as it comes off of
Carlton Street. I think this site plan shows the drive. This will be the common
drive and here you have the four proposed homes. The Commission
recommended approval of their July 17th public hearing. Sheri Stiles spoke in
favor. No one spoke in opposition or commented or provided written testimony.
Key issues of discussion by the Commission was the method of imgation for the
proposed lots. The key Commission changes to staff recommendation were to
strike the condition of approval 1.2.4 requiring the applicant to submit evidence of
approval of right of way construction and public utility improvements and to strike
condition of approval 1.3.1 requiring construction of a sidewalk along East
Carlton Street. The outstanding issue before City Council is with regard to the
common drive. The fire department originally asked for bollards to be placed at
the end of the drive and now they are asking for those bollards to be removed.
Both of them make sense, so it's really Council's decision. This is a challenged
area of the city with regard to access. You have State Street comes and does a
substandard cul-de-sac at the end and, then, you have Cathy Lane, a private
street, comes up at a minimal right of way, I think it's about 20 feet. And, then, it
widens to 40 feet kind of in this location and, then, it exits here onto Cathy
Avenue, which comes into Washington Avenue. So, this is all a private lane.
You have an alley here that is unimproved. And the ACHD staff report for this
application has not required that the alley be improved through this lane. And,
then, you have Carlton Avenue, which dead ends here and will become a private
drive that kind of swoops down a little bit and connects to Cathy Lane. It will
become a common drive that swoops down to Cathy Lane. The bollards that will
prevent it from acting as an extension of Carlton, but without the bollards it does
improve access in the area and the ability of the fire department to get in and out.
Either way this is certainly a constrained area of town with regard to access. We
did carefully check this parcel. It certainly looks like it should be a stub street -- a
continued stub street. There is a JUB application that originally had it as part of a
preliminary plat, but it didn't make it into a final plat, so it does appear to be a
remnant parcel and that's the -- that's this application in a nutshell. I'll answer
any questions you may have.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none, Mayor.
Rountree: I have none.
Meridian City Council
August 26, 2008
Page 40 of 65
De Weerd: Does the applicant have comments?
Stiles: Very brief. Sheri Stiles. Engineering Solutions. 1029 North Rosario
Street in Meridian. Mayor de Weerd, Council Members, I'm not sure that Anna
mentioned the second -- second item that the fire department requested to be
stricken from the conditions of approval. I'll give this memo to Jaycee. They
have requested that conditions of approval 1.2.12 and 3.9 be stricken that refer
to the bollards. I just wanted to clarify that those were two items. As Anna said,
this is a very difficult area. Some of you might remember the Sterling Creek
Subdivision that came through and that it did have that un-platted piece there,
but Mrs. Overton; John Overton's mother, I believe, still lived there and she had
an old shed there that she wanted to maintain as long as she was alive and so
that kind of shifted the property line, but for some reason this wasn't part of a
dedicated roadway or anything, it was just an un-platted parcel and, then, you
have the Cathy Lane there that it doesn't really go to 40 total feet, whereas
Sterling Creek starts up at the -- where Sterling Creek is here, there really is like
a physical boundary there. They have got some plantings and some curbing
there. So, people from Cathy Lane don't -- don't go out through this way. You
may remember this from a long time ago, the previous building inspector did this
subdivision, kind of a substandard subdivision, and it's -- it is what it is, as you
say, so --
Rountree: Yes, it is.
De Weerd: John Adams.
Bird: We weren't going to bring that up.
Stiles: But we are just requesting this two lots to kind of straighten everything out
and make it all legal and we would ask for your positive approval of this plat. If
you have any questions I will be glad to answer any.
De Weerd: Counsel, questions?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay.
Stiles: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Is there any public testimony on this item? Okay. Council,
seeing no public testimony on this item, what is your pleasure?
Meridian City Council
August 26, 2008
Page 41 of 65
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we close the public hearing on PFP 08-001.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing on
this item. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Any further information needed or do I have a motion?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve PFP 08-001 and eliminate the bollards as requested by
the fire department and uphold the Commission changes one and two as shown
by the department and to incorporate all applicant, public, and staff comments.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have motion and a second. Any discussion? Okay. Roll
call.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
De Weerd: Okay. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 17: Public Hearing: AZ 08-008 Request for Annexation and Zoning of
approximately 5 acres from RUT to an R-8 zone for Redmont
Health Services by The Land Group, Inc. - 5075 W. Chevy Lane:
Item 18: Public Hearing: CUP 08-015 Request for Conditional Use Permit
for an Assisted Living Facility consisting of 2 residential treatment
buildings and 1 administrative building in a proposed R-8 zone for
Redmont Health Services by The Land Group, Inc. - 5075 W.
Chevy Lane:
De Weerd: Okay. Items 17 and 18 are public hearings on AZ 08-008 and CUP
08-015. I will open these two public hearings with staff comments.
Meridian Clty Council
August 26, 2008
Page 42 of 65
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is the Redmont Health
Services project. It's located at 5075 West Cheny Lane between Black Cat and
McDermott on the south side of Cherry Lane. The applications before you
tonight are annexation and zoning and conditional use approval of the residential
care facility. The applicant is proposing to develop the site as a residential care
facility, consisting of two 9,000 square foot residential treatment buildings kind of
on the southeast and southwest portion of the site and, then, one 6,000 square
foot administrative office building. Future pads for two Alzheimer's buildings are
also shown on the site plan. However, they are not proposed for construction at
this time and they would require separate conditional use approval. One of these
is the site plan and one of them is the landscape plan. That's why they are both
up here. I wanted to point out some of our kind of site specific DA provisions and
those include that until a future CU is approved they can have a maximum of
three buildings and that's the two residential buildings and the one administrative
building and, then, all future uses on the site will require a new CUP, unless
waived by the planning director because the use is principally permitted.
Treatment on the site -- and that includes counseling and therapy a shall be
limited to the residents on the site. Continuing care of the residential patients is
allowed, provided it is consistent with the Redmont Health Services
business/treatment plan for residential care facilities. And, then at a minimum an
amenity should be constructed on the site as proposed on the site plan and that
includes a walking path and a garden area and, then, a ropes course, which is
down in this area. With the CZC application the applicant should include
mitigation details with a plan approval by the city arborist and there are up to 354
existing caliper inches on the site, so that it will be a significant number of inches.
Any future buildings need to substantially comply with the elevations. And here
is the elevations for the administrative building and, then, the resident buildings.
Construct private streets to the east and west property lines and those are kind of
the extension of that drive aisle there. This includes the pavement and the
adjacent sidewalk. Place signs at the east and west property lines stating that
the roads will be extended in the future and due to the length and lack of the
turnaround to the east leg, stripe the asphalt at 150 feet and the striping shall be
removed once the property to the east is developed and the private street is
extended. Cross-access shall be provided to the properties to the west and east
of the development. Copy of a recorded easement shall be submitted to the
planning department prior to occupancy of the first building. And, then, the
applicant shall construct a five foot wide detached sidewalk along the northern
boundary of the property as proposed and the developer shall maintain a ten foot
wide compacted gravel shoulder meeting the construction standards for ACHD,
with the remainder in lawn or other vegetative ground cover. That one's not site
specific. I don't know why I forgot to delete that one. Sony.
De Weerd: I figured that's why you mumbled.
Meridian City Council
August 26, 2008
Page 43 of 65
Canning: Yeah. Okay. I will articulate better. The Commission recommended
approval at their July 17th, 2008, public hearing. Doug Russell, the applicant's
representative, spoke in favor, as did Robin Hinkle, and no spoke in opposition.
Don Glower and Jeff Morrell spoke -- or commented and, then, we received
written testimony from Don Clower for denial after the P&Z meeting. So, there
was just a comment at the meeting and, then, written request recommending
denial after the meeting. Key issues of discussion by the Commission were the
differences between residential care facilities and out-patient care facilities. The
sewer stub to Mr. Glower's property west of the site. The need for private streets
required by the fire, police, and planning department. And, then, they also
discussed the relocation of the trash enclosure from the location proposed on the
submitted site plan. The Commission discussed the trash enclosure be placed
within the stub driveways until future connectivity to the east parcel was extended
through. This location was discussed as the solution for meeting the 150 foot
length for the fire department requirement, without having to provide a temporary
turnaround. A motion was not made by the Commission to relocate the trash
enclosure. So, I think as it stands it has not been relocated. The key
Commission changes to staff recommendation were that they modified several
DA provisions as follows: They modified their condition regarding patient care to
allow some outpatient care for past residents at a proposed facility. They
modified the striping requirements -- or added striping instead of bollards as
requested by the fire department. Provision 1.1.2 was modified to require
construction of a five foot detached sidewalk along the north boundary, instead of
a ten foot multi-use pathway. Condition 1.2.1, bullet four, was modified to be
consistent with one of the other DA provisions, removing a bollard, and condition
1.2.13 was stricken as the Parks Department communicated to staff that the
multi-use pathway was proposed along the north side of Cherry Lane, instead of
the northern property boundary of this site. So, it was moved to the other side of
the street. Outstanding issues for City Council. The City Council should
determine if the proposed treatment facility, including care of residents and
follow-up care of past residents -- basically out-patient care, is appropriate in an
R-8 zoning district and the applicant should follow up with the fire department
regarding the replacement of the bollards with the striping at the 150 foot mark at
the east leg of the drive aisle and modify condition 3.14 accordingly. With that I
will answer any questions that Mayor and Council may have.
De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: None right now.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Zaremba. Mr. Zaremba.
Meridian City Council
August 26, 2008
Page 44 of 65
Zaremba: I'm waiting for the director to notice.
De Weerd: Anna. Just -- we have a question your way.
Canning: I'm sorry.
Zaremba: It's not really a question, just would you go back one slide to identify
the area again. Okay. I thought the previous one showed it across the street, so
--thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Chief, did you have any comments? Other than what's been
given? Okay. Thank you. Does the applicant have comment?
Elg: Good evening. My name is Van Elg. I'm with The Land Group, 462 East
Shore, No. 100, Eagle, Idaho, representing the applicant this evening. I'll take
you through a -- kind of a brief -- brief synopsis of where we are at and where we
have come from and where we are at tonight. We have got a Powerpoint
presentation, but I think we are not too far off the mark, I hope, and if you have
any questions I'd be glad to answer those in more detail. We have dealt with this
project for quite some time. It's been an ongoing and we have looked at our
various options for the design of this site. With the recent annexation and rezone
of Incline Subdivision to the north, we had our contiguous access point for -- for
annexation and rezone, which we -- which we needed. That's up in the
northwest comer of our site. Initially, the application included a stub street
coming in directly off of that northwest comer, but after discussing it with ACHD
we have moved it to where you will see the access point later on in the site plan.
The annexation that we -- as we proceeded with the annexation of this project,
we first discussed with Public Works the availability of service and as you pointed
out there was a letter of protest - it might be -- instead of opposition, maybe -
but Mr. Clower was interested in obtaining sewer service. Well, we are located
outside of the Black -- or right on the edge of the Black Cat trunk line and we
have talked with Public Works and they have agreed to allow us to extend into
that. It can be serviced. There isn't a great deal of coverage beyond our site, so
we expect that it wouldn't be a to and through project, but if for some reason
Council decides that it's worthwhile to extend that to Mr. Clower and can do it -- I
don't know that it can be done, you know, we can certainly address that. But I
think that's another issue that Mr. Clower needs to address as well. With that I
think he understands that we can't get it and I think he's talked to Public Works, if
I understand it correctly, and they told him the same thing. So, with respect to
the annexation, we have our path of connection. We have available public
services. And we believe that the property is ripe for annexation into the City of
Meridian. With our site design, as Anna mentioned, there are -- you will see five
buildings in the site. Anna, if you would go to the next slide. Or next -- beyond
those. There we go. No. Yours is better. Go back to yours. Okay. You will see
the -- as Anna mentioned, the two Alzheimer's units up here, assisted living,
which we understand will be there or will have to require a conditional use
Meridian City Council
August 26, 2008
Page 45 of 65
application. They are just there for site planning right now. These are the three
facilities that we are looking at with the ropes courses, the garden area, and you
can see that we have tried to provide some sort of a secure campus, but with
ample amounts of vegetation, buffering, screening for the surrounding
neighborhood. This area -- along this area right here you will -- the -- according
to the Comp Plan is a designated community center designation, so we think that
we have created a compatible use with that community center area there. This --
as (mentioned, our access point was here. We have moved it over to here to
provide fora more convenient access for the project. I guess one of the things
that we talked about with staff that -- well, I guess we understand where the fire
department is coming from on it, but they have asked that we provide two staff
level approved -- I believe that's correct -- private streets and that's okay, but it
seemed to us that providing an access -- or an address off of Cheny Lane for
these facilities is better than providing an access off of Cheny that comes to a
private street, then, to another private street in order to get to this one. But
having said that, we will do two private streets if we need to. I don't think the
standards of construction are going to be much different that what we are going
to do. But it did seem that it was a little bit -- we considered just more of a
parking lot and our own access drives, rather than private streets. But if that's
what the ISC requires, then, we will -- we will comply with that. The only other
issue we really had with the fire department in discussions -- we met with Joe
Silva and everything seemed fine, the buildings are all sprinkled, so the 150 rule,
the hose drag length, we talked about all those issues. Access drives around.
Because they are sprinkled we have a different standard that we -- and we are in
compliance, according to Joe, with that. The only issue is right here. From this
curb line to just about a foot or two beyond --afoot or two right there of that
parking stall, at the 150 foot mark. Now, Joe wasn't concerned about those two
parking spaces, I understand, but the issue was technically, by ordinance, we
have exceeded the 150 foot mark, because we are trying to provide an access
for our trash enclosure here and we didn't want to build an expensive trash
enclosure around this and, then, have to move it later on. There is not a lot of
other very convenient locations for that trash enclosure. The neighbors here, the
Glowers, certainly didn't want the trash enclosure next to their -- their site and as
we looked at it, this does provide an emergency vehicle a little more access to
get to the back of this building if they needed to, but what our proposal was is in
lieu of providing a temporary turnaround over on this side of the project for his
private street, that we be allowed to just stripe this off, we will put some signage
-- whatever we need to right there to indicate that this is a no parking zone and,
therefore, we will be able to maintain our 150 foot mark right there. So, the
private road will, essentially, end right there at the 150 foot line. This is just
asphalting, no parking zone, that's made -- that's simply there for the trash
enclosure and for accessing that facility. So, we would ask that the Council
consider that for us. Let me step back just a little bit with respect to the uses and
there was some confusion about continuing care versus out-patient care. Robin
Hinkle, the owner of the Redmont health facility, is here tonight and would like to
address that very issue with you tonight. I think we have come up with a solution
Meridian City Council
August 26, 2008
Page 46 of 65
that will probably eliminate this concem altogether. But there was some concem,
I just in clarification of the code, I was told that when there is a gray area that
oftentimes the NFES code is consulted to see what kind of uses might be used
nationally or how they -- how they define specific uses and a residential health
facility or residential care facility like this or a rehabilitation facility says --
indicates that they often are associated with residential use, with intensive out-
patient or -- and counseling services. So, we think we are compatible. It's
probably a scenario that's not clearly defined in your -- in your definitions, but --
but with that Ithink -- again, I think we will be able to sooth any raw nerves that
might be there with respect to out-patient and settle that here shortly. Anna
mentioned that there were 300 and some odd inches of trees that need to be
mitigated. We have had Elroy already go out to the site from parks and I think
he's identified 96 inches of trees that are -- that will be mitigated. He couldn't get
onto the site completely, because he had a -- there was some dogs and things in
the way and weren't friendly to him. So, we will meet him out there again if we
need to and let him do the count. But he felt pretty comfortable with the number
that he had given us.
De Weerd: Yeah. He doesn't get the same hazard pay that police and fire do.
Elg: So, with respect to the staff report, I don't think there is anything that we are
really out of, you know, disagreement with of staff on the report or with what P&Z
has addressed, other than would ask you to consider the private roads, just for
clarification.
I would ask you to consider the length of that private road, the 150 foot length,
and the striping of the trash enclosure there. We'd rather not put the bollards up
there, because, then, we have to move the trash enclosure somewhere else and
to construct the temporary turnaround right now, we don't know what's going to
happen to the other -- the other portion of that project at this point. So, I believe
those are the only questions or comments that I had today. If you have any
questions I'd sure be glad to answer them.
De Weerd: Council, do you have any questions?
Bird: Not at this time.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Anna, I must have missed something. The report makes reference to
350 some odd caliper inches of trees and you said 92.
Elg: Ninety-six.
Borton: Ninety-six inches?
Meridian Clty Council
August 26, 2008
Page 47 of 65
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, it's not uncommon for that
number to drop drastically if they are what Elroy terms junk trees. So, I mean
you can have several hundred caliper inches of trees that don't really need
mitigation on a property, but that's why we always have Elroy go out on site.
Borton: Okay.
Elg: Madam Mayor, Councilman Borton that is the case. Elroy has indicated that
a number of them weren't going to need to be mitigated, because they were trash
trees. And the neighbor I think testified at the P&Z meeting that they would just
as soon have a lot of them cut down, because they were hazards to them, so --
De Weerd: Council, do you have questions that need clarification on the
proposed treatment facility and in-patient, out-patient type of information?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Question about the parking lot with the first phase, if you will. I can't
tell by the drawing if there is any sidewalk access into those buildings or a place
where a gurney can be rolled out of the buildings and into an ambulance for
transport of patients that need that. It appears to me to either be all parking or
parking and landscaping. So, that would be a concern for me, because these
kinds of facilities seem to have a lot of emergency. calls and get -- and they are
going to be -- there will be at least one fire engine and one ambulance in there
and they will be hauling more than the two people out, probably as many as three
or four times a week. Has there been provision made for that?
Elg: Mayor and Councilman Rountree, let -- if I would -- if I could, I will turn some
time over to Robin Hinkle, who has some experience with that kind of a with this
facility and probably could answer some of those questions better for you.
De Weerd: Okay.
Elg: But there are sidewalks -- I don't know if you can see those from there, but
there are sidewalks extending around the entire perimeter of the project into each
of the buildings. Those are -- of course, those are the future ones -- into these
buildings here. Sidewalks running along the back, side, fronts of all the buildings
here for --
Rountree: I guess my question is, though, if all of those parking places are
occupied adjacent to that sidewalk, it's -- all of a sudden you have got to carry
somebody over a car to get them to the emergency vehicle.
Meridian City Council
August 26, 2008
Page 48 of 65
Elg: We can certainly take a look at that -- at that issue. Robin.
Hinkle: Hi.
De Weerd: Hi.
Hinkle: Mayor, Council, I'm Robin Hinkle. I'm the president and CEO of
Redmont Health Services. 1500 1st Avenue North, Birmingham, Alabama. And
I'm pleased to be here today. We are very excited to be bringing a residential
drug and alcohol treatment facility to the Treasure Valley area. We have been
working hard with the Idaho Substance Abuse Agency, the state substance
abuse agency, as well as -- along with Debbie Fields, the drug czar for the state
of Idaho, to bring this facility to this area. We are going to be working in
conjunction with the -- with the hospitals and the detox center for the community
to provide the next step in care for folks and families that are suffering from this
disease. To go to the very first question as to access by the emergency
personnel into these facilities, there are sidewalks going into each building and if
you see right there by the administrative building, that's an entryway on the left
side -- let me see. Right here. That we can design so that have we got folks --
there can be access in through there for the ambulance -- if there is an
ambulance or the fire trucks, they can go in, but that's where the entryway would
be into the building. This is a 48 bed facility. We will be serving both
adolescents and adults and it is -- there will be no detox taking place -- no
detoxification services being -- medical detox taking place on the facilities. We
will be working with the hospitals and the detox center. Once the patients are
stabilized, then, they will transfer into this facility for the -- to begin the residential
treatment. This is not a lockdown facility. It will be secure, though, in that there
will be monitored access and security -- you know, key pads, the typical security
for a medical type facility, but it is not a lockdown. We will serve state clients.
We will serve employer's assistance program clients. We will be also serving just
anyone who -- primarily we will be targeting middle class folks that need
extended affordable residential treatment that is not available in this area. We
would also -- we would like to be able to treat -- what we are making available
here is treatment for folks who live in Idaho in their community, so they are not --
they don't have to travel out of state or hundreds of miles in order to get the
treatment that they need. Community based treatment, especially of the
extended care version that we will be offering with our services here and with the
related out-patient clinic, is the type of extended care program that has the --
which is shown to have success in recovery. Now, this is the residential facility
here. We are also opening an out-patient facility in -- by the end of November of
this year at a separate building located on Cole Road. So, what will happen here
is the residents will come in here for the residential portion of their stay, typically
30 days, and they and their families will begin their treatment here. The day after
they check out of this facility, they will go and report for the continuing care of
their out-patient care at the Cole Road facility. And, then, they can continue on
the several months of continued treatment that they will need to maintain good
Meridian Clty Council
August 26, 2008
Page 49 of 65
recovery. So, that's how we are set up. There will be -- I wanted to clarify,
because I was reading back through the staff report and at one point it was clear
that families are going to be coming as part of the treatment -- as part of the
residential treatment the families will be involved in some of the group sessions
and the education sessions at this facility. That's standard residential treatment.
And so I just wanted to make certain that that -- that is understood. Also, there
may be occasion when alumni may come back to encourage the residential folks
that are in treatment to help them through their program. That is -- it's not
something they would pay for or anything like that it's just part of a support
network that we would provide to the residential patients that are in the facility at
the time. So, if you all have any questions, but the way that we are set up is this
is the residential treatment. Once they graduate to out-patient they go to Cole
Road and that's where they continue on with that care and that is also -- the way
that our treatment program is set up, once they go to out-patient, they will be able
to go home and, you know, resume a life with their families and their jobs, but
continue on with their treatment. So, if you all have any questions I'm happy to
answer them.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, questions?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: I have none.
De Weerd: Thank you very much.
Hinkle: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. This is a public hearing. Is there testimony?
Canning: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Canning: The staff report indicates that a flood plain permit is not required. The
flood plain administrator would like to reserve the right to double-check that,
because the Ten Mile Creek is just to the south of this property. So, there may
be a permit required for the Ten Mile.
De Weerd: Okay. Remarks from the applicant? Any final comment?
Canning: Madam Mayor, I guess I'll say one last thing to -- the condition as
written does not include families. It says treatment on this site shall be limited to
the residents on the site, continuing care of the residential patients is allowed.
So, to make the modification that -- the woman with the southern accent --
Meridian City Council
August 26, 2008
Page 50 of 65
wonderful southem accent, whose name I have forgotten at this moment -- you
probably want to put to the residents and their family and that's in the DA.
De Weerd: Okay.
Canning: Robin Hinkle. There we go. I'm sorry, ma'am.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further questions from Council or final comments from the
applicant? No final comments? About the flood plain or anything? Just thought
I'd ask.
Elg: Yeah. Sure. I think we took a look at that. I don't think there is a flood plain
issue there. The Ten Mile -- yeah. It's a deep channel, there is a large
embankment against the southem side. I don't think we are in the flood plain
there, but I think we looked at that once long ago and we weren't worried about it.
But I guess if you want to leave that condition open we can do that. We can look
at it.
Radek: Yeah. I don't remember specifically seeing this. I think I was actually on
vacation when this came through, so I'd have to look at it.
De Weerd: Okay. And you were good with the striping, but not the bollards on
the east end.
Elg: Right.
De Weerd: Okay.
Elg: Correct.
De Weerd: Are you okay with that? Fire department?
Anderson: Yep.
De Weerd: Yep. That was yep for the record.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I would just ask for a clarification, I guess, on the private street. Are
these intended for future access to the neighboring properties?
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, it took me a moment to
remember why we wanted a private street. If you look at the surrounding
properties, these are all shown as residential on the Comprehensive Plan as
Meridian City Council
August 26, 2008
Page 51 of 65
medium density residential. By placing apseudo-commercial one in the middle,
it potentially affects what may come after it. The applicant, (believe -- it's been
awhile, so Mr. Tverdy can tell me if I'm wrong, but I believe they own these two
properties and they want to do a gated community off of a private street in this
area, so it's just -- it allows future opportunities for residential access, because
you do have to have frontage on a street for residential properties, you can't --
you can't have access off a commercial drive aisle. So, it just -- if like say an
apartment complex were to develop, it provides addressing opportunities for the
fire department and things such as that. So, that's why we were looking for
private streets, rather than just common commercial drive aisle connections.
De Weerd: You can't have two way discussion off the record.
Elg: Can I be on the record?
De Weerd: You sure can. If you will just restate your name, just in case.
Elg: Van Elg. The Land Group. There won't be a gated -- there is no plans for a
gated community there.
De Weerd: Well, dang, we are ready for one.
Elg: And, by the way, we have no problem with -with extending the easements
as identified in the staff report and the conditions of approval, providing those
cross-access easements, and we think that accomplishes the same thing as the
private streets might accomplish. So, as I understood it, it was a -- I think it was
more involved because of the fire department, something to do with the private
streets. I don't know exactly where that did come up, but --
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, as I stated before, the private
street option is, really, the only option for residential development. If we thought
it were going commercial, the drive aisles would be sufficient, but for future
residential development we need to have a private street for addressing and
frontage purposes.
Elg: As I mentioned, we are fine either way, we just wanted clarification on it,
so --
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: As a follow-up question, if -- if these are to be extended and -- they
would be cul-de-sacs. If this is the only access, just thinking to the future, would
there be more than 50 homes accessing it, 50 residential units accessing, or how
-- as a cul-de-sac, if it's already 150 feet, how much longer could it go?
Meridian City Council
August 26, 2008
Page 52 of 65
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I think that we will have an
opportunity to address that in the future. That will have to come back to you and
there is an opportunity to loop it back to Cheny Lane. It doesn't have to be a cul-
de-sac.
Zaremba: Oh. Okay.
Canning: But we will need to -- we will need to evaluate the plan when it comes
forward.
Zaremba: All right. Thank you.
De Weerd: Sounds good to me. Okay. Council, any further questions? Any
final comments?
Elg: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Council?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I guess if nobody wants to -- nobody don't need anymore, I move we close
the public hearings on AZ 08-008 and CUP 08-015.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. All
those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Before we go any farther -- and I'm not making a motion at this time. I am
so pleased to see a facility like this come to our area. I applaud you for doing
this. It's something badly needed in this Treasure Valley. Thank you guys very
much for doing it. Appreciate it.
De Weerd: Okay. Do I have motion? Mr. Bird?
Bird: Yeah, I'll do that. Madam Mayor?
Meridian City Council
August 26, 2008
Page 53 of 65
De Weerd: Yes.
Bird: I move that we approve AZ 08-008, request for annexation and zoning of
approximately five acres from RUT to an R-8 zone, for Redmont Health Services
by The Land Group, and to include all staff, applicant, and public testimony and I
believe we had -- we would include in treatment of patients and families, am I not
right on that, Anna? Is that the way we want it? We took care of the bollards.
De Weerd: By removing them; right?
Bird: By removing them.
De Weerd: Okay.
Bird: And I believe that does it.
Rountree: Access out of the front.
Bird: Uh?
Rountree: Access out of the front for emergency personnel. Out of the front of
the facility.
Bird: Yeah. Out of the parking lot, making sure that that is an open lane to get
down in there, so that we can get emergency vehicles in there and patients out.
And that should do her.
Rountree: I'll second that.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Madam
Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Great. Thank you. All ayes. Motion carried. We still have Item 18,
CUP 08-015.
Canning: Madam Mayor, before a Council Member might make a motion, on this
one if we could get a little more clarity on the emergency access to the front of
the structure -- front of the building. Is that only on the admin building -- if I could
just get that clarified, that would be great. It probably needs to be in the CU as
well, so --
Meridian City Council
August 26, 2008
Page 54 of 65
Bird: It needs to be in the CUP, don't it?
Canning: It can be in the DA as well, but since you're acting on the CU now, if
you could clarify it that would be wonderful.
Bird: Okay. Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve CUP 08-015, a request for Conditional Use Permit for
Redmont Health Services and clarification on the emergency entry into the
administrative building will be on the west side and --
Rountree: I'd add to that that there is sufficient access provided from the building
into the parking lot --
Bird: Into the parking lot --
Rountree: -- for emergency purpose.
Bird: And what kind of width? Twenty foot?
De Weerd: Yes. It's walking, not driving, correct?
Bird: No. No. It's driving.
Rountree: Backing into it.
Bird: Backing in.
De Weerd: Backing into it?
Bird: With the ambulance. Is twenty feet sufficient?
De Weerd: Can you just have them work the details out with the chief?
Bird: He's right there.
De Weerd: Or the fire guys.
Anderson: Yeah. That would be fine. We could work it out, but we are going to
need access to each building, not just the admin. The admin is not the only one
that we are going to have patients that we are going to have to pick up.
Meridian City Council
August 26, 2008
Page 55 of 65
Bird: I would, then, make my motion that they just work out the agreement with
the emergency personnel, with the fire chief, and to include all staff, applicant,
and public testimony.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. Discussion?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Just -- it sounds like the chief wants us to confirm that that access very
well might need to be provided to each and every building and we are supportive
of that.
Bird: That's something they can work out, yeah.
Borton: Okay.
De Weerd: Okay. Further discussion? Hearing none, Madam Clerk.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 10: Vacated from July 22, 2008: MFP 08-005 Request to Modify the
previously approved Final Plat (FP 05-076) by removing the
requirement fora 5-foot detached sidewalk along Lots 54-66, Block
5, which are located on the south side of E. Deerhill Street between
Montague Way and Genoard Avenue for Messina Meadows by
Tuscany Development, Inc. -'/2 mile west of South Eagle Road and
%2 mile south of East Victory Road:
Item 11: Continued Public Hearing from July 22, 2008: VAR 08-005
Request for Variance to UDC 11-2A-6 which requires building
setbacks to be measured from sidewalk or property line; applicant
requests to measure street setback from the back of ribbon curb for
12 lots, located on the south side of E. Deerhill Street between
Montague ay and Genoard Avenue in Messina Meadows
Subdivision No. 1 for Messina Meadows by Tuscany
Development, Inc. -south side of Deerhill Street approximately %2
mile west of South Eagle Road and approximately'/2 mile south of
East Victory Road:
Meridian City Council
August 26, 2008
Page 56 of 65
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. We had swapped Item 19 with Items 10 and 11
and that means we still have 10 and 11. Yes, you know, I would like to thank
you, Robin, for coming all this way to be present at this hearing and certainly
echo Mr. Bird's comments. This is a facility that is needed in this Treasure
Valley. We appreciate your selection of Meridian. I believe we spoke on the
phone.
Hinkle: We did.
De Weerd: And we are thrilled to have you.
Hinkle: Well, we appreciate it and we look forward to being here and, you know,
you all just let us know what you need, but we will be -- this facility we are
anticipating open by June of next year.
De Weerd: Well, I don't anticipate being an in-house patient, but we will come
as --
Bird: Thank you very much.
De Weerd: Okay. Item 10 and 11, MFP 08-005 and VAR 08-005. I will ask for
staff comments on these two items.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I think Trent is really
regretting the fact that he had to give up his place at the front of the agenda
tonight, but he did make it. This is the Messina Meadows project. The subject
site is generally located about a half mile south of Victory Road and
approximately a half mile west of Eagle Road. The applications before you
tonight are a final modification and a variance. The applicant is requesting a final
plat modification to remove the existing four foot sidewalk requirement from the
final plat and, then, a variance from the UDC setback requirements to allow the
street setback to be measured from back of curb, instead of the property line as
required by the UDC. Mr. Johnson and Trent and I spent many hours trying to
figure out how to accomplish this. The applicant is requesting -- what's
happened is the applicant has had success with a single floor -- a single level
floor plan that has been selling and that requires a certain length. As the
properties get in this -- in the blocks to the east, they did fit on those lots. As they
come to the west the lots narrow down a bit and they have not been able to fit
that same house plan on these lots. So, that's what's originated the request
before you tonight. As far as pedestrian pathways, what you have here is on the
north side of this street going into this -- the park you have an existing six foot
sidewalk and, then, you have the four detached sidewalk on the south side of the
street and, then, you have an existing four foot sidewalk at the rear property line
and, then, another four foot sidewalk on the north property line of these units.
So, you have several pedestrian pathways through this area. What the applicant
is asking to do is remove these two and install -- remove this section of the
Meridian City Council
August 26, 2008
Page 57 of 65
sidewalk and, then, install some crosswalk markings to facilitate pedestrian trafFic
from some of the other sidewalk connections. Those being here. And one here
underneath this yellow. And, then, here. So, staff is recommending approval.
We've had no written testimony since the staff report and there are no
outstanding issues before Council. And with that I will answer any questions.
De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none, Mayor.
De Weerd: Does the applicant have comment? The applicant has no comment.
And he appears to be in agreement with staff comment.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, the variance is open, so if he has comments there. Is
it not?
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Canning: And perhaps I didn't touch on the variance enough and he's got some
-- what it is -- it's a little hard to understand, but with the sidewalk gone, we no
longer have anything to measure from. So, the code says if you don't have
anything to measure from, you measure from the property line. Well, there is
quite a bit of difference -- distance between the property line and the back of
curb, so what the variance is is to be able to measure from the back of curb,
rather than the property line.
NefFinger: Trent Neffinger. Oh, man. What's my address. 660 East Franklin,
Suite 240, Meridian. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I appreciate the
opportunity to talk tonight. I will keep it brief. With this final plat modification we
did point out that there will be -- we do want to remove those two sidewalks on
the north end of that block -- the block being Block 5 there. We will be happy to
put in some strategically placed crosswalk areas to help render that removal.
The reason why the variance for Lots -- I don't know if you can see that very
clearly, but we will just talk about it here. All right. So, the lots in that block they
get narrower as you go west and so what we need to do is make the lots work for
the houses that we -- that the builder has proposed and this is being the north
side here, there is a two foot ribbon curb there, an eight foot swale, four foot
sidewalk that's being proposed to be removed and, then, you have a 90 -- this
particular lot has 97 deep and, then, there is a four foot sidewalk on the south
end of each one of those lots. Currently setback is here and that's pulled 20 feet
from the front of the curb or the back of the swale, basically. Twenty feet back.
And that is where our problem is. We can't get the length of the house on there.
I believe they need a 77 foot deep house to make that work. So, what we would
like to do with this final plat modification is remove that sidewalk and, then, with
the variance pull the setback from the back of this ribbon curb 20 feet, which
Meridian City Council
August 26, 2008
Page 58 of 65
would, then, put us here. And, then, therefore, we have a deep enough lot to fit
the 77 foot deep house on. So, that being said I can stand for questions.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions?
Bird: I don't have any.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I do. I have -- I guess related to the swale. Isn't that
part of the -- the drainage system out there and does that get somewhat
compromised if you do that or is it just an architectural feature?
Neffinger: Basically, the swale will remain the same. If -- regardless of where
the setback ends up, there will be a 20 foot concrete drive approach across that
swale and, then, you will still have the capacity that's required on the other side
to hold the water storm drainage. So, that won't be compromised at all.
Rountree: My next question is could you not move the four foot sidewalk to the
back of the curb and still measure from the back of curb for our setback? That's
probably for Anna, Trent. I --
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this drawing is actually
inaccurate. We measure from the far side of the curb. So, he would still be short
four feet if he were to attach the sidewalk and, then, we'd have to reconfigure the
drainage for the area, but he would still be short four feet.
Rountree: Okay. Thank you.
Neffinger: Are you sure?
Canning: Yes, I'm sure.
Neffinger: Let me point to just how I'm unclear what you're telling me. Though
we ~ measured from there, that's where the pin -the lot pin is, is on that side of
the sidewalk and not this side of the sidewalk.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the way the code reads it's
from the edge of pavement going back. The intent with the 20 foot is that there is
sufficient area for someone to park a vehicle without blocking the sidewalk. And
that requires 20 feet. So, it's meant to get it out of that sidewalk area.
Rountree: So, Anna, what you're telling me -- if we did what I suggested, then,
there would be four feet of sidewalk in the driveway.
Canning: Potentially.
Rountree: Potentially. Yeah. Okay. That makes sense.
Meridian City Council
August 26, 2008
Page 59 of 65
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Since this is, essentially, right next to -- was it Renaissance Park, the
newly dedicated park, or we are expecting that people that want to walk clear to
the park are going to walk in the street or they are going to go around to the other
side of these two lots and walk down -- what is that between the houses? Is that
a --
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, there are several homes on --
on Deerhill. There is a sidewalk on the north side of Deerhill and I believe there
is also a ten foot pathway within -- that's the wrong way. Sony. There is also a
ten foot pedestrian path within the park, I believe, on the north side of the park.
Neffinger: Right there.
Canning: Yeah.
Neffinger: Just a path there and the sidewalk there.
Canning: There is no doubt that it will be a little odd to have a sidewalk here and,
then, lose it as you cross the street and it will look a little odd, but this -- because
of this development plan there are a lot of pedestrian facilities. You have one on
each side of the street, as well as one on each side of the open space. And,
then, again, on each side of the street and on each side of the open space. So,
we are really getting twice as much pedestrian pathways as we normally get.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: But, Anna, I can't believe that people aren't going to be walking down that
swale. I think there is some way that we can figure out to get his setback like he
needs and still have that sidewalk across there. It's just natural, in my way of
thinking that people are going to -- to want to walk along the street back, you
know, in the alley. What I would call an alley.
NefFinger: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I have a comment for that. If
we went -- if we go to the other alleys here.
De Weerd: Okay. You're going to have to take the microphone.
Neffinger: Okay. So, if we go to these other alleys that are existing in the sub,
where there actually is an alley, this is a normal street. These alleys do not have
Meridian City Council
August 26, 2008
Page 60 of 65
any sidewalk on them. So, the people are -- the people need to walk -- and this
isn't a true to type, because the sidewalks are actually not down the middle, they
are right along the front -- or the top of the lot, like was shown in that diagram.
So, really, it would be not too much different than walking down this alley. You're
going to walk this way or down here. Particularly these homeowners, they are
going to come out their front door and walk along that sidewalk, I think, before
they would walk in the street. Now, somebody that's coming from this side of the
subdivision, yeah, there may be a slight change, they might have to come this
way and walk down the sidewalk or across the street and walk through the park.
But I still think that they could make headway there to get to the park, if that's
where they are headed.
Bird: Maybe I screwed up the a is the front of the house the south?
NefFinger: Yes.
Bird: Oh. Okay.
Neffinger: Yes.
Bird: Oh. Okay.
Neffinger: So, this is just like an alley load.
Bird: Okay. I was screwed up. It wouldn't be the first time. It won't be the last,
either.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any other questions?
Bird: I have none, Mayor.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Neffinger: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Is there any public testimony on this application? Had to ask.
Council, any further information needed from the applicant or staff?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Seeing none, do I have a motion to close?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Meridian City Council
August 26, 2008
Page 61 of 65
Rountree: I move that we close Items 10 and 11.
Bird: Second.
Borton: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close Items 10 and 11. All those in
favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carves.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, what is your pleasure?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we approve the requested modification for Item No. 10,
MFP 08-005 and that would include staffs comments and recommendations.
Borton: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to approve this item. Any
discussion? Hearing none, Madam Clerk.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
De Weerd: Thank you. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we approve the variance request for Item 11, VAR 08-005
for the reason outlined by Director Canning in her explanation of the variance.
Borton: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Hearing
none, Madam Clerk.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Meridian City Council
August 26, 2008
Page 62 of 65
Item 20: Ordinance No. Downtown Meridian
Striping Plan (1 of 3 Readings):
De Weerd: Okay. Item No. 20 is the first reading of three on Ordinance No. 08-
1376. Madam Clerk, will you, please, read this by title only.
Holman: Thank you, Madam Mayor. City of Meridian Ordinance No. 08-1376,
an ordinance of the City of Meridian adopting a downtown parking plan, with
modified standards for designated parking spaces for disabled persons, pursuant
to Idaho Code Section 49-213-1-B and providing an effective date.
De Weerd: You have heard this ordinance read by title only. Is there anyone
who would like here it read in its entirety? Okay. We will have it on next week's
agenda for the second reading.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I might suggest that we have the second and third
reading.
De Weerd: Okay.
Rountree: I'm not sure why we need it set up for three readings, if that's okay
with legal counsel.
Nary: We could do that.
Rountree: Good.
Item 21:
Ordinance No.
Hydrant Ordinance:
Amendment to Fire
De Weerd: Okay. It's done. Okay. Item 21 is ordinance number 08-1377.
Madam Clerk, will you, please, read this by title only.
Holman: Thank you, Madam Mayor. City of Meridian Ordinance No. 08-1377,
an ordinance amending Title 9, Chapter 1, of the Meridian City Code regarding
damage to the fire hydrants, providing for a waiver of the reading rules and
providing an effective date.
De Weerd: Oh, wow, these are short. You just heard this read by title only.
Rountree: Go ahead.
De Weerd: Anyone who would like to hear it read in its entirety? Seeing none.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
Meridian Ciiy Council
August 26, 2008
Page 63 of 65
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we approve Ordinance 08-1377 with suspension of rules.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to approve this ordinance on
Item 21, with suspension of rules. If there is no discussion, Madam Clerk, will
you call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 22: Executive Session as per Idaho State Code 67-2345(1)Q) (To
engage in communications with a representative of the public
agency's risk manager or insurance provider to discuss the
adjustment of a pending claim or prevention of a claim imminently
likely to be filed. The mere presence of a representative of the
public agency's risk manager or insurance provider at an executive
session does not satisfy this requirement:
De Weerd: Actually -- so, Councilman Gorton, do you have a motion to make to
Adjourn into Executive Session?
Borton: So moved pursuant to --
De Weerd: (1)(j).
Bird: (1)(j).
Borton: (1)(j).
Rountree: I'll second that.
Gorton: 67-2345(1)(j).
De Weerd: Do I have a second?
Rountree: I'll second that.
De Weerd: Thank you. That was your last motion and you almost messed up.
Gorton: Oh, I did mess it up.
Meridian City Council
August 26, 2008
Page 64 of 65
De Weerd: I gave you an almost. Okay. Madam Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
EXECUTIVE SESSION:
Bird: I move we come out of Executive Session.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Do I have a motion to adjourn?
Rountree: So moved.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Oh, come on, let Joe make that.
Bird: Joe.
Rountree: Joe.
Borton: I just did. Motion to adjourn.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: All those in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 11:30 P.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
MAYOR TAM a WEERD DATE APPROVED
Meridian City Council
August 26, 2008
Page 65 of 65
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