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HomeMy WebLinkAboutAugust 14, 2008 P&Z MinutesMeridian Planning & Zoning Special Meeting August 14, 2008 Page 2 of 49 evening. I will open the public hearing on this evening and those hearings that we will be looking for public comment would items four, five and six only. All others on the agenda have -- all those public hearings have already been closed and we will do deliberations beyond that. Having said that, once I do open the hearing, the staff will give a brief overview of the project, giving the reasons for their findings and whatnot. After that time I will request that the applicant come forward and they will be given 15 minutes to give their side of the hearing itself as far as what the staff comments were and their reasoning for wanting to move their project forward. After that 15 minutes -- there are sign-up sheets in the back. I don't know if you have signed up for that, but all the folks that have signed up in the back will be given three minutes to explain their opinion of the hearing and whatnot. Once the sign-up sheet has been completed, I will again, then, ask if there is anyone else in the audience that would like to come forward and speak and you also would have three minutes. Based upon the crowd this evening, if there is a homeowners association that is here with a representative that would be speaking for these subdivisions and whatnot, they would be given more time to speak at that point. After the public's had their time, I will, then, ask the applicant to come back up again and at that point give rebuttal to the comments that were made during the public hearings. After that is done, then, the Commission, then, will deliberate and make a decision. Item 4: Continued Public Hearing from August 7, 2008: CPA 08-002 Request for Comprehensive Plan Amendment to modify the Future Land Use Map by changing the land use designation for approximately 10 acres from Low Density Residential to Mixed Use -Community for Eagle and Victory by Rose Law Group - NWC of E. Victory Road and S. Eagle Road: Item 5: Continued Public Hearing from August 7, 2008: AZ 08-010 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 3.75 acres from RUT and R1 to C-N zoning district for Eagle and Victory by Rose Law Group -NWC of E. Victory Road and S. Eagle Road: Moe: So, having said that, I would now like to open the continued public hearings on CPA 08-002 and AZ 08-010 for the Eagle and Victory and ask the staff report. Parsons: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission. Before you tonight is a Comp Plan amendment request and an annexation request. The applicant's proposing the Comprehensive Plan amendment to change it from low density residential to a mixed use community designation for approximately 15.5 acres of land. The annexation itself is primarily these three parcels located at the northwest comer of Eagle and Victory Road and that area includes 3.75 acres. As you can see, surrounding the site there are some built-out subdivisions. This is Woodhaven to the north, as well as Thousand Springs Subdivision to the north. To the east is Thousand Springs and some agricultural land. East of that -- or, excuse me. West -- excuse me. West of that is agricultural and Thousand Springs. To the east of this is agricultural RUT zoned property. And, of course, south of this is Medford Place, zoned R-8. Currently this is what our Comp Plan looks like now. Again, you can see the low density Meridian Planning 8~ Zoning Special Meeting August 14, 2008 Page 3 of 49 residential designation. If this goes forward with an approval, you could see down here on this -- this area would change. Staff is recommending denial of the Comp Plan amendment and the annexation request tonight for reasons being, one, if you look at this current Comprehensive Plan map here you will see that there is a neighborhood center here designated. Here is some opportunities for mixed use community on this site to the east as well and, then, unfortunately, I don't have a blow up, but if you look at this plan here you can see there is an abundance of commercial opportunities there along Eagle and Overland Road. Here is the concept plan the applicant's proposed tonight. Roughly, 20,000 square feet. Proposing -- they are proposing two drive-thru businesses. One, obviously, will be a Walgreen's pharmacy. The other one is proposed as a bank. Because they are within 300 feet of a residence, they will have to go through CUP approval to get further development applications to get this approved on this site. Access to this development is proposed. One right-in only from Eagle Road and, then, the applicant is proposing a full access point here on Victory Road roughly 300 plus or minus feet from the intersection. Also, if you note on the concept plan here, this is how this intersection is supposed to be developed by ACHD in the future. As Council -- as the Commission is aware, this won't happen until 2011. The other thing that staff would like to point out is on the southeast comer the Commission just forwarded on a recommendation of approval for a similar project with some drive- thru businesses, a potential Walgreen's on that comer as well. So, staff feels there are some opportunities already in this area that would allow for that. The other concern staff had was on this submitted concept plan currently the applicant is not proposing any pedestrian or vehicular connectivity. We just adopted some new code requirements that require that -- that requires that connectivity. Of course, the Comp Plan also states in our mixed use language that if you're going to have neighborhood commercial you should provide that connectivity with the adjoining neighbors and at this time the applicant hasn't provided that on this site. Again, the landscaping and elevations were not submitted for staff to review either, so staff doesn't really have a clear vision on how or if this would blend in with the surrounding neighborhood. Staff has received quite a few comments on the project. Just prior to last week's hearing we received 27 signatures, a petition in denial of the project. And as of today staff received five more letters of written testimony from neighbors in the surrounding neighborhoods, also asking for denial from the Commission tonight. Again, staff is recommending denial of the CPA and annexation request and staff will stand for any questions Commission may have. Moe: Are there any questions of staff at this time? Newton-Huckabay: I have none. Moe: Okay. Would the applicant like to come forward, please. State your name and address for the record. Nickel: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Commissioners. My name is Shawn Nickel. Address 6223 North Discovery Way in Boise, Idaho, here tonight representing seven property owners and a development company. We are requesting, as staff indicated, a Meridian Planning ~ Zoning Special Meeting August 14, 2008 Page 4 of 49 Comprehensive Plan and also we have annexation and a zoning request for three of the properties that are within that Comprehensive Plan amendment. As staff has indicated, the Comprehensive Plan for this area shows quite a lot of medium density residential surrounding this -- I call it an island, because it really is an island surrounded by higher density residential and with a mixture of medium density residential. Medford Place is a four-plex development and as staff indicated, Woodhaven, Thousand Springs, and those -- and Tuscany to the south. Staff has indicated in their report that this proposed Comprehensive Plan amendment is not in the best benefit of the city. The purpose statement for the mixed use areas states that the designation will provide for a combination compatible land uses developed under a master or conceptual plan. The purpose of this designation is to identify key areas which are either in-fill in nature or situated in highly visible or transitional areas of the city where innovative and flexible design opportunities are encouraged. Bill, could you change the slide, please. Could you go one more time? Those three points that were part of the purpose statement, the in-fill, the high visibility and transitional areas, and the innovative and flexible design, all apply to this property and these seven -- these seven properties that are part of this amendment. To the north of these properties is a 15 foot imgation easement that pretty much separates this -- these properties from the development to the north. Unfortunately, when Woodhaven and Thousand Springs were developed, there was no consideration for these properties given and, therefore, no stub streets, no pedestrian connections or anything as part of those developments and so when I -- when I say this is an island, it really is kind of a low density island with individual single family houses that are directly accessing an arterial roadway. In the stated goals and objectives of the Comprehensive Plan, as part of staffs recommendations, they present the following: No provided pathways or vehicle connections to the adjacent properties. And, again, unfortunately, there was no allowance for that to the north. However, staff will -- change the slide again. Thanks, Bill. This is a concept plan that we have -- that we are providing. This is based on staffs analysis and recommendation. So, what we have done is we have made sure to insure the city that -- and, again, the annexation and zoning is only for this portion of the property right there, but when we originally met with staff, they thought it appropriate to bring in all these properties as part of the Comprehensive Plan amendment, instead of piecemealing them or further leaving another island in here, just to focus on this comer. So, the main changes that we have that we are -- we are showing a commitment to those cross-accesses for vehicle cross- access and circulation to the west and we would agree to dedicate cross-access easements across our property. In addition, we have provided -- we can hardly -- you can't really see it on this site plan, but the existing sidewalk comes in front of Woodhaven right here and, then, our plan on the annexation portion is to provide a pedestrian pathway along the north boundary that will stub here and, then, with across- access easement, continue that concept through here. Obviously, the sidewalk along our portion of the annexed property and, then, again, the cross-access and pedestrian concept throughout that -- throughout that whole area to provide that -- that connection that staff said that we originally -- we originally left in our first plan. And, again, we have gone through ACHD. They have approved aright-in only on Eagle Road. They did not feel it was appropriate to have aright-out due to the distance between the intersection and our northernmost portion of that property. We have agreed with that. They have Meridian Planning & Zoning Special Meeting August 14, 2008 Page 5 of 49 also provided us with a full access that will align with this property over here. I believe their future intention is that once the properties to the west redevelop, cross-access is granted and gained, that a future full-time full access will be right here about mid section of that -- of these properties and aligning with that Tuscany access point. Right now this -- this would -- it meets -- it's been approved by ACHD. It meets their policy. It would probably become right-in, right-out at some point once the access to the west was gained. Staff also indicated under the transitional use -- transitional uses are encouraged through the Comprehensive Plan, because the area to the -- to the north and surrounding residence uses are low and medium density, higher density at the comer of Medford Place with the four-plexes, we believe that given the fact that there is -- that these properties can no longer -- and you will hear some testimony from those neighbors when they come up, but these properties are no longer suitable for residential as they are today. That a low density designation is not an appropriate designation at this time and that's one of the reasons we are requesting a change to the Comprehensive Plan. And with regards to the variety of commercial and retail opportunities, it is stated that the current mixed use designations are to the east. Large commercial developments on Overland and Eagle Road. Staff, can you change the slide? Actually, go back to that one, please, Bill. One up. The other way. Stop right there. Sorry. Thanks. This slide right here indicates the nine existing access points that are currently on these properties accessing Victory Road. So, as you can see, if these uses were to stay single family, we have nine separate access points coming out to Victory. Our proposal again -- and a responsible build out of this area would eliminate the majority of those access points and the functionality of Victory Road would be maintained. Or the future functionality of Victory Road will be maintained. Okay. Bill, forward, please. The other direction. That right there shows the -- again, the cross- accesses that we would establish with this one right here and, then, those access points. One more forward, Bill. Again, this is the annexation and conceptual site plan that is part of the annexation request. I wanted to point out that one of staffs comments with regard to buffering and transition to the north -- and I do want to point out that there is a 15 foot wide existing canal easement on the north side of all these properties going from intersection to the west that provide a natural permanent buffer in addition to what landscaping that we would provide within our site as part of the buffer requirements of the city code. So, in all you're going to end up with about a 40 foot wide buffer. Fencing or wall would be provided, as far as -- in addition to landscaping, trees, a berm and, then, that setback, that all provides that transition. If you could go one more, Bill. And that's a little different look with the -- the existing aerial underlaid, just to show how that -- how the -- the existing houses and, then, the transition to the future buildings on this portion. And, again, we would continue that concept all the way to the west. One more, please. This is across-section showing what it would look like at that northern property line with that -- with that buffer. The property line with the wall or fence, the berm, and, then, a dedication to the lighting, make sure that the lighting does not -- does not bleed into those -- into those properties. That's all part of -- it will all be part of a future Conditional Use Permit if we move any further forward, we would come back with a Conditional Use Permit because of the drive-thru uses that are proposed with this. So, you will be able to get more specific on all the details of this -- of this concept plan that's in front of you. Bill, one more. That's a picture of that 15 foot buffer, so this is the north Meridian Planning 8 Zoning Special Meeting August 14, 2008 Page 6 of 49 boundary of the properties I represent. This is the south boundary of the lots in Woodhaven and Thousand Springs and that easement. Again, Bill. Okay. You can back up. Okay. Thanks. So -- sorry, Bill. One more time. Can you go back to the very first slide? Right there. That will work. Thank you. So, as staff has indicated with the -- the amount of existing mixed use in the area, I do want to point out the Silverado and EI Dorado developments that are up here -- keep in mind those are mixed use regional and as we go along in the years and see how those are developing out, those are more of -- the majority of those are destination type of commercial. Call centers, hotels, engineering firms and the like. Those are commercial uses and mixed uses that are drawing from the whole valley. People are coming from -- from outside the Meridian area to go to work at those places. What we are proposing here and what we proposed two years ago on this side over here is community mixed use that's going to provide neighborhood and community services to the residents that are in this area right here. As you can see -- one more slide forward, Bill. You can see this slide right here represents all of the existing -- and, then, these little hatched areas here are all the proposed and approved preliminary plats of all the residential developments that are in this area compared to the small amount of service, mixed use, and commercial that is actually provided if you take into consideration that Silverado and -- or EI Dorado and Silverstone are -- are that regional quality. Staff has indicated there is a neighborhood center designation right here. There is also one over on this side. And staff can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that this area right here has been approved. There a very small amount of commercial that is actually approved with that and the majority of it was residential. I just -- it's my opinion and the opinion of some of the other developers in the community that those mid block commercials are -- they are just not embracing those mid -- those mid mile commercial designations at this time, because you're not really seeing those develop too much. So, again, we are proposing -- we actually have a use that wants to go here. We are proposing this area to -- to that service mixed use, such as you see on the east side. And, then, staff goes into an analysis of the site ~~of the site plan, the concept plan. I have already addressed the cross-access. Again, our commitment to those cross-accesses and to those access points. We have provided some elevations and if staff wants to go forward to the very end of my presentation, I think I have one elevation there that -- and, again, this is not necessarily part of the Comprehensive Plan discussion, although it -- it's related. If you guys feel that you need more detail, more elevations, the annexation and zoning portion of this application, we can definitely present more information for you if you -- if you so desire. I also want to point out that Victory Road is currently a three lane -- three lane roadway in front of all of these properties where we are proposing access, so there is a two travel lanes and, then, a tum lane in the middle. So, staff has indicated that there is a delay in that construction of the intersection of Victory and Eagle until I think 2011. The roadway in front of these properties we do have sufficient circulation and roadway pattern right now and, then, in 2011 that whole intersection is going to be -- going to be redesigned, hopefully. Moe: You need to finish up, please. Nickel: Yes. With that I will stand for questions. Thank you. Meridian Planning & Zoning Special Meeting August 14, 2008 Page 7 of 49 Moe: Any questions of the applicant? O'Brien: I have one question, Mr. Chairman. Moe: Mr. O'Brien. O'Brien: Yeah. Shawn, on -- you say that that's already a three lane roadway at Victory? Nickel: On the west side of Victory from Eagle Road it is three lane to the west, I believe until the Tuscany access and, then, it goes back down to -then, it goes back down to two. So -- you can go to the one aerial, Bill. Right there. So, what I'm saying is in front of this -- in front of these properties it is -- actually, it's tapered down right about here after where our access point would be. So, yeah, this is three lanes along this stretch right here. I don't know how far down it goes before it goes back. O'Brien: Okay. Thank you. Moe: Any other questions? Okay. Thank you. Nickel: Thank you. Moe: First person on the sign-in sheet is Rex Young. When you folks come up, please, state your name and address for the record, please. Young: My name is Rex Young. My wife Marla and I live at 2950 East Victory Road, Meridian. When you look at the map up here, our property is located where the numeral four is on the map. We are directly across from the entrance to Tuscany Lakes off Victory Road. We moved to this location to take advantage of country living and we have lived there now for a little over 37 years. I still remember the first night that we spent there, the next morning I got up and went out to get my newspaper and something seemed strange. Part way back I remembered what it was. It was so quiet. It's not so anymore. Over the years we have observed many changes. At the time of o that hearings were held for Thousand Springs Subdivision, we had some concems. Those concems were resolved by restricting to single stories those homes that abutted our properties and by the lots being made larger, transitional lots, as required by the Comprehensive Plan that was in effect at that time. During the hearing process before the Planning and Zoning Commission, one of the Planning and Zoning Commissioners told me, after -- or during my testimony, he said, Mr. Young, whether you like it or not, one of these days your property is going to be commercial. When Woodhaven Subdivision hearings were held, we had some of the same concems. We given no concessions for larger transitional lots and restrictions were not made requiring single story homes on lots that abutted our properties. In fact, the largest lot in Woodhaven is smaller than the smallest lot that abuts our property in Thousand Springs. Now, when I'm working in my garden area, I have an unrestricted view no longer of the mountains, Meridian Planning & Zoning Special Meeting August 14, 2008 Page 8 of 49 but the back side of a two story home and we all know how unattractive the back side of some homes can be. When Tuscany Lakes Subdivision -- or Tuscany Lakes Subdivision across Victory Road to the south of our property. During those hearings I had violently objected to the placement of the entrance and exit road into Tuscany Lakes. I suggested that it be moved to the west and aligned With Brandys Jewel, which is the entrance and exit road from Thousand Springs. That would permit them to shave off the hill and improve the safety of that intersection and at a future date when the school was completed, install a traffic signal. I was given no consideration on my objection. Now, I can sit in my -- in front of my kitchen window during the hours of darkness and as I look out at that window, I have an unrestricted view of vehicle after vehicle, their lights flashing on my kitchen window as they make left turns onto Victory Road. To the north of our property is the Nampa-Meridian Irrigation District easement and Mr. Nickel showed you a view of that easement, which is behind the property that they intend to develop and I've got a couple of photos here that I want you to take a look at. This was taken kind of from the center of my property looking to the east and also looking to the west. Moe: You need to wrap it up, sir. Young: When -- when I measure the distance across that -- he says it's 15 feet, but according to my measurements at the back of my property it's about 30 feet of distance between us and where their property fence lines would be, which would help reduce any adverse impact upon them. One comment that I want to make. A lot of the people who live to the north of us have made comments that the reason they bought their homes was that they wanted to look at our trees and I have got some nice trees on my property. Some of those same people to the north that want to look at my trees, use that as a target when they discharge their illegal fireworks around the Fourth of July. And some of those same neighbors to the north of us, they like to throw their garbage across the fence into that easement and I frequently have to go out there and pick it up. With the high cost of fuel -- Moe: Mr. Young, you were given three minutes you have gone way past that, so you really need to wrap it up fairly quickly, please. Young: Yeah. I certainly will. With the high cost of fuel, we would certainly welcome a Walgreen's in our neighborhood. I am sure it would save us from many six mile round trips to secure prescriptions and other miscellaneous items. I believe that the best use of our property would be to approve this mixed use designation and we recommend such, because as all these events have unfolded, our property has become less and rest desirable for residential purposes. Thank you. Do you have any questions of me? Moe: Any questions? Newton-Huckabay: I have none. Moe: Thank you very much. Meridian Planning & Zoning Special Meeting August 14, 2008 Page 9 of 49 Rohm: Thank you for that testimony, though. That was a -- you did a good job. Moe: Next on the list is Vem Irwin. Irwin: Yeah. My name is Vem Irwin and my wife Jean Irwin and I live at 1803 Primrose Drive in Nampa, Idaho, for one reason -- I bought that whole comer there, the whole piece that's in question I used to own. I farmed the whole 40 acres when I was there and that property -- the reason I live in Nampa now, because -instead of there is because the traffic and everything else and all them houses was built in behind me that I had no say so to why they were there or if I could stop them. When I moved there it was a gravel road and I could ride my horses up and down the road, but, then, they paved it and that took away that privilege. And, then, the taxes had gone up so much - I just own the comer, number nine right now, and I got my tax assessment this year, I called the tax assessor and he wanted to -they figured on raising it a considerable amount and I asked him how come they -- why they thought they could justify raising it, he says, well -- I says because it's zoned RUT. And he says, well, you know, it should be commercial. I says, yeah, but it isn't, so you got to tax it as what it's zoned today, not what the future might be. And he says, well, let me go out and take a look at it and I says would you buy that property and build a house on it and he says, no, I probably wouldn't. And says, well, I don't think anybody else would either, because we used to have accidents on that comer that rolled almost to our house and we were set back from the house and so he went -- he went out there and took a look at it and he says, you know what, he says I think I'll just leave the tax the same as it was last year, which I thanked him very much for, because I didn't want to pay the increased taxes. But the neighbors on the -- the neighbors on the north, the ones that are objecting to it, I didn't have any say so when they moved in there or not and so you -- there is two things that are fairly primary in -- in real estate and that is growth and change. You're going to have that whether you like it or not. So, this is just a process of that -- of those two things, growth and change. When we moved there in 1958 there wasn't much there. Other than the house on each comer -- I mean to the other comers, the next closest house was a quarter mile away and we kind of liked that. But that's why I'm not there now, because I don't like living in a congested area and I think the highest and best use for that property, even though your -- your biggest opponents of this property -- or this change is the one on the southeast comer and -- and they don't want that property to go, because -- to mixed use, because they want theirs already, which is already, I understand, been approved and they don't want any possibility of a tenant being stolen from them to go over there. So, you know, you can't -- you can't control growth to a point. But I think the highest and best use of that property is mixed use commercial and, you know, the staff, they have got their personal feelings and I think they ought to put their personal feelings aside and approve it for this request. Thank you. Moe: Thank you. Any questions? Thank you very much. Wendell Jeffries. Meridian Planning & Zoning Special Meeting August 14, 2008 Page 10 of 49 Jeffries: My name is Wendell Jeffries and I live at 3130 East Beamer Court. I am the secretary for the Woodhaven Neighborhood Association and am speaking on behalf of the association. We have submitted petitions earlier to the Commission -- Moe: Mr. Jeffries? Jeffries: Yes. Moe: Is there anyone in the audience that you're speaking for that could identify themselves? Jeffries: I don't know if anybody -- Mr. -- Moe: Raise your hand if he is speaking for you. Okay. Jeffries: Okay. Our subdivision consists of about 29 homes. We submitted a petition that was signed by virtually all of the homeowners in the subdivision opposing this development. The only ones that hadn't signed it are ones that I couldn't get ahold of, out of town people, people on vacation. The -- some of the concerns we have are the traffic access into this area, as most of the people know, this area is very congested already. That's one of the reasons why ACHD wants to widen it to a five lane road on Eagle Road to handle the traffic. Putting more commercial into that area will only increase traffic into that area, whether it's just a store or seeing their development plan, they have got other businesses and everything in there that are going to increase the traffic. There is also issues as far as the access off of Eagle Road. The only thing they have is they right turn only access coming in, which will help the people coming in from the north, does nothing for the people coming in from the south, east, or west, so that traffic is all going to be diverted onto Victory Road and will have to come into the development from that area. And I sympathize with the homeowners that are in this area and they want to get out of this mainly because it's not the way they remember it and everything. We are trying to take of care our residential area -- it's developed into residential all around the development and to put commercial in between residential to the south, to the north, and to the east does not seem to be the best use of that area. We recognize something's going to happen. I think -- if staff will move back a little bit to the street map of the area and join -- our subdivision consists of Moon Dipper, Beamer Court, Hood Ranch, and Crater Place, which are just to the north, occupying about two- thirds of this proposed development. If you look at that, the number of homes that are in there and the amount of area that's in the proposed area, there is probably more room in that area for homes than there is where Woodhaven is right now. So, to say it's not conducive to residential I think is misleading. You could develop that area into a residential with some berms on the roads. The -- most of the homes in Woodhaven that border this development are two story homes looking out over this area. The developer has indicated that they would plant trees along that area. That's good. Fifteen years down the road when the trees get mature. What about for the first 15 years when we have got lights out there, two story homes looking out on a commercial development with lighting and everything else 24 hours a day. That's going to be an issue. Probably Meridian Planning & Zoning Special Meeting August 14, 2008 Page 11 of 49 decline some of the values of the homeowners that live in that area. We also have concems about the noise from the businesses in that area. As you noted from the earlier map, the drive-thru accesses for the two businesses, the Walgreen's and the bank, are on the subdivision side, not on the Victory Road side, so that traffic is going to be coming through, the speakers from those drive-thrus are going to be echoing back to the north. So, those are some of our concems. The developer earlier indicated that roads around there are three lane. They are, actually, two lanes at the intersection of Eagle and Victory and that will not change for three more years. Eagle Road is three lanes just before Moon Dipper and that's the street that enters our subdivision. Victory is three lanes up to about where this commercial development starts, then, Eagle to the south and Victory to the east are both two lane roads. So, there are no real three lane roads at that intersection. Moe: Mr. Jeffries, you need to conclude. Jeffries: The last item that we have more of a technical issue is the posted notice for the property indicates that it is 15 acres and I notice in the agenda for this meeting it indicates that we are considering approximately ten acres and so the posting on the public notice on the property we feel are misleading as far as the number of acres that this development entails. It also does not indicate exactly how much of that development is going to be commercial. It says the northeast comer of -- or the northwest comer Eagle and Victory. That's what this whole development is. So, how much of that is commercial versus the whole project. So, with those items we have a technical objection to the proposal. Moe: Thank you. Are there any questions? Rohm: I just have one. Jeffries: Yes. Rohm: You heard a couple of the other testimonies before you that are property owners as part of this development. It seems to me that had your development not occurred, then, there wouldn't have been the issue for them to not be able to develop at this point in time. So, it -- so, it seems to me like if one is allowed, certainly the other should be considered. Jeffries: Yes. And we realize that that area is probably going to develop into something. I'm not sure that commercial is the right type of development for that area. Some of the other areas like to the east of Victory -- or east of Eagle Road has been proposed as low density office buildings, things like that. I think something like that might work in that area, have less impact on the homes around it. Commercial, I think, is going to have a more negative impact on the remaining homeowners that are around there. Rohm: Thank you. Meridian Planning & Zoning Special Meeting August 14, 2008 Page 12 of 49 Moe: Any other questions? Thank you very much. Next on the list is Jim Allen. Allen: My name is Jim Allen. I live at 3040 East Victory, Ada County. We are still Ada County. Thank you. When we moved there about 20 years ago, I had three neighbors. Two of them are here now. The third one is down about there. We moved from Kuna 20 years ago. A subdivision was built around us. A subdivision is built around us again. Is it time to move? It might be. What I can see, as far as the ground, there is always going to be kids being born, there has got to be some place for the kids to grow, there has got to be someplace for development to support the kids. You might be able to control some things with kids, you can't control others, because there is going to be more kids. You can control the development as to how you see the best usage of it. I think the best usage for my piece of property, which is one with the cul-de-sac that has the V at the top just south of Carter. Would probably be a mixed use. Not necessarily commercial, but mixed use. Thank you. Moe: Thank you very much. Next on the list is Barbara Marquart. Marquart: Hi. My name is Barbara Marquart. I live at 3100 East Victory Road, which is with these neighbors and all of the issues that have been addressed to you this evening. And as you visit our neighborhood I think we have all come to the conclusion that it's changed. Now, I guess the challenge is to best see how we can improve that area and not leave these residential homes to simply act as a buffer to the subdivision that moved in around us. What is needed are ways to protect the neighbors and address their concerns and also to allow that property on Victory to transition to new growth issues, which are a part of your Comprehensive Plan. I wish our property was like it was when we moved there and the neighborhood had not changed. We loved our open fields, the deer, the pheasants, the quail and the sunsets that weren't obstructed by two story homes. Those days are gone and now we see a need for change to that area and the best use would be for it to be a transition into your Comprehensive Plan that becomes probably not commercial, but a mixed use property and not keep those homes in a residential area that were appropriate years ago and certainly not today. Thank you. Moe: Thank you very much. Any questions? Thank you. Next on the list the Bob Aldridge. Aldridge: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, Bob Aldridge, 3300 Falcon Drive. I'm to the southeast of this area. The whole essence of a Comprehensive Plan is to control growth. Is to channel where things are to go. I have been here far too many times now as we looked at the east side of this Eagle Road situation going to the north. We have now approved well over 20 acres, not counting the Easy Jet area, of commercial use in this area, that will develop. This is supposed to be a neighborhood area. I'm afraid it's going to turn into another Overland and Eagle. We are currently two lane roads in that area. At the last hearing this Commission properly said that the access on Eagle Road for the division at the southeast should be single and should be Meridian Planning & Zoning Special Meeting August 14, 2008 Page 13 of 49 moved away from the existing areas. We have to control this area. I agree that this is going to change. I have been there for 25 years. I intend to stay for awhile. But I want to be able to drive through that intersection without fear for my life. The problem is going to be what is the best use for that area and right to the south of that is a very probable use for that. That was approved because that comer is one that doesn't work well with straight residential, because it's going to be next to a five lane road one of these days. They did a good job of internalizing coming from a different direction and having high density residential. This is not transitioning, because you have residential to the north, to the south, to the west, et cetera, that the transition is to have different kinds of residential in there. You have properly, I think, segregated the commercial usage on the east side and that will continue, that will allow some control of that, it will allow you to control access on that. If we place this into a more commercial area, you have abandoned the whole concept of the neighborhood division. I think the idea of putting things in mid sections is going to take some time. It's going to have to be pushed. It's going to have to be held to. And if that concept continuously gets chipped away at, those central half mile areas are not going to work, because you allowed too many commercial comers to develop. That destroys the whole reason for the half -- the half mile comers. I think simply in this case there is plenty of commercial in this area. It will develop. The real problem is that even though you're doing a Comprehensive Plan change for ten and a half acres, despite the sign is 15.5, all that we see before us with any kind of guarantees is a small comer section on a two lane road with a do not access across that, it's far too close to the intersection, with no guarantees down the road, that same developer or somebody that you can control access with, comes in and you can control what happens, more that to another area. You have to deal with what's here. It's simply premature. If when the entire area is ready to develop, when they have had the entire plan in place, that's the time to approve all of this. Doing it as a unified whole and planning out what's the real uses are and, then, setting proper controls. Moe: Any questions? Okay. Thank you very much. Newton-Huckabay: Actually, Mr. Chair, I have one. Moe: Commissioner Newton-Huckabay. Newton-Huckabay: Mr. Aldridge, did you -- you state that we need to give the center -- neighborhood centers a chance to -- for the idea take hold, but did not you benefit from getting your comer -- don't you own the comer on the southeast side? Aldridge: I do not own that comer. I'm the land owner to the southeast who is coming in saying, please, buffer it. Please, hold down the access, so I can get out of Falcon Road. Newton-Huckabay: Okay. Aldridge: I don't -- but all from that comer. I think my statements in the prior meetings I wish everybody would go away, just like the -- just leave me alone. Meridian Planning & Zoning Special Meeting August 14, 2008 Page 14 of 49 Newton-Huckabay: Okay. That was my mistake. I had -- I had thought you -- Aldridge: No. I appeared in support of that, because there the landowners or the principal developers did an excellent job of working with surrounding and buffering, changing and this Commission I think took the final step by changing the access on Eagle. That's a proper way to do this. And this is not being done in this case, it's being done piecemeal. Newton-Huckabay: Okay. Thanks. Rohm: Well, now I have a question. Moe: Mr. Rohm. Rohm: As you stated, we made the changes on that previous parcel to the southeast comer. How would you suggest ingress and egress to this property, whether it's mixed use or otherwise now -- is before us this evening. They suggested right-in, right-out only off of Eagle and -- Newton-Huckabay: Right-in only. Rohm: Yeah. Right-in only. Excuse me. And how would you view -- how would you say it should be accessed? Aldridge: Commissioner, if I were king for a day, I guess, and trying to design this project, what I would look at -- there is access coming through the back of Thousand Springs, coming into the back of this project and on the west end of that project. When you have the entire project in place, you can have access that comes in not directly off, you can have access coming in down further that lines up with Tuscany. The problem is right now you have no guarantee of that. The only access that's being provided is far too close to the intersection, with no guarantees it can be moved. And staff properly pointed out in its report that they would want to have that either closed completely or turned into a right only down the road, because you have no guarantee in doing that. So, you have got to figure out some way that you take this away from intersection as far as access and that can be done in two ways. One, going further west, just as on Eagle Road you go in from the north to get away from other roads. And, number two, having cross-access, access coming in from the Thousand Springs area, so the people -- especially if it's residential, because that and it gets rid of this problem of commercial usage that conflicts. What I'm afraid of is with this kind of access, especially when it turns into five lanes, if you come out to that and you're sitting there trying to get onto Eagle Road, and you're looking at five lanes of traffic, you come clear across on that with the intersection now stop lights, people coming through at speed, you're going to immediately look and say the way I'm coming out is is to go back out, go through Thousand Springs, come around out to Eagle Road and, then, come south and you're going to have a heavy amount of commercial traffic exiting through a residential area. I Meridian Planning & Zoning Special Meeting August 14, 2008 Page 15 of 49 think that's one of the reasons why Thousand Springs and the other subdivisions there are as concerned as they are. We have seen that happen in other areas here in Meridian and it's been, frankly, a disaster for those neighborhood areas. Rohm: Thank you. Moe: Any other questions? No? Okay. Next on the list would be Dave Marquart. D.Marquart: Good evening, Mr. Chairman, Commissioners. Change is -- Moe: Name and address. D.Marquart: Dave Marquart. Thank you. 3100 East Victory, Meridian. This is not -- Bill, could I have another -- or Anna. Thank you. There we go. My home is located right here. One of the nine different kinds of entrances into this piece of property. Change is inevitable. We see it every day. Every day. Some of it's good. Some of it's planned and some of it's not. I have lived on this property for many years now. Not as long as others in this area, but -- and I have seen the change happen. Some of it's been good. Some it's not been good for me. I have had the opportunity to testify at both Thousand Springs and Woodhaven's proposals. I was not in favor of nor against either one. I just wanted to make it better for us. It was going to go into the City of Meridian, we were in Ada County, and we knew that eventually we would become Meridian and we wanted to make it the best -- I wanted to make it the best that we could in that change for the city when they took it over. Well, it's coming to that soon and this may be that time. Well, change is coming again to this particular piece of property and to my wife and I. Seven of us live in this small strip of land that you can see listed here and we are surrounded by the city and you could call it an island and I don't know, someone ahead of me did, but it's -- it is surrounded by city all the way around us and so we are sitting there in the plan right now with RUT, R-1 s and large residential -- excuse me -- area. Well, here is the opportunity for us to fix that. Now, there may be some challenges in terms of access, but I think the developer has given you the reasons why they can live with that and, apparently, the person who was willing to purchase this is willing to live with that, too. So, it's I think not necessarily a good thing for us to ask for where the road access is to be if it's not on Eagle, because the build up is totally to the north. You can't punch roads through that. The only other place you have besides Victory Road is Brandys Jewel to the far west and, then, you need that conductivity and that's not what we are here for tonight. We can plan for that. One last thing that I might say is when Woodhaven was developed and came through this group, back behind us to the north, that is R-4s. This is R-8s. And so you are transitioning into this particular area in here. You have made your plans and it's planned well and I am in support of this Comprehensive Plan adjustment -- amendment. Thank you. Moe: Thank you very much. Questions? Newton-Huckabay: I have none. Meridian Planning 8 Zoning Special Meeting August 14, 2008 Page 16 of 49 Moe: Next on the list is Teddy Hepper. Hepper: Hi. I'm Teddy Hepper. I live at 3130 East Victory. I'm the comer closest to the traffic and I was raise on the southeast comer, so I know that area really well. And I bought that comer kind of for sentimental reasons, but I knew when I bought there I would probably have ten or 15 good years and it would be commercial. I run a little rescue ranch. I have, sheep and cats and dogs and help with the Humane Society and it's turned into a nightmare with the Fourth of July, the traffic, the neighbors, it's just not a residential place anymore. It needs to be mixed use commercial, something for them to say -- to redesign it and make it residential. Someone needs to come spend a Saturday night there, because the traffic from the races -- everybody thinks that's the comer to take off, you know. My bedroom rumbles and things fall off the wall. I mean it's really a commercial comer. So, I'm in favor of it getting changed to mixed use. Moe: David Currier. Currier: David Currier. I live at 3130 East Victory with Ms. Hepper. Basically, everything I was going to say has just about been said, but I would like to reiterate about the noise. The house is situated right there and that comer with the Harley Davidson motorcycles, the construction vehicles, the semi diesels, everything going through there, is just -- it is a nightmare and things do fall off the wall and it's just -- it's very hard to sleep there. I can't understand how -- if you were to put houses in any of this particular area right here, how anybody would get any sleep or even buy a house in that area. You can tell about the amount of traffic that goes through there as evidenced by the ruts in the road right here. They are about a foot deep, if you have ever been through there. It's tapered in there, so you have got a lot of heavy, heavy construction traffic going through there, which is actually going out Eagle Road to the -- you know, to do construction on the subdivisions and stuff out there. But it gets to be very, very noisy. It is a commercial comer. Let's see here. I think the reason why you're putting the money into the intersection is because you realize that there is more traffic going to be out there. I think that's your plan to make sure that that's a safe intersection. Cloverdale and Victory is -- I'm thinking it's about what you're going to be doing right there and I cross that intersection every morning and it is such a super intersection to get through now. The traffic flows through it. It's ten times better than it was. I don't know if you have ever sat at any of the Eagle or Victory stop signs at 5:00 o'clock at night when all the traffic's going home, but it usually takes me about ten minutes to get through that intersection, because of the stop signs and, you know, doing that intersection is definitely going to free up an awful lot of traffic through there. It's going to make it flow a lot better. I doubt very much putting a Walgreen's on the comer there is going to create more traffic in that area that that intersection couldn't handle and that's about all I have got to say. Moe: Thank you very much. Any questions? Thank you. Next on the list is Chantelle Krusinski. How did I do? Meridian Planning 8 Zoning Special Meeting August 14, 2008 Page 17 of 49 Krusinski: You did pretty good. My name is Chantelle Krusinski and I live at 3475 East Falcon Drive. I don't abut the proposed area. I'm actually on the south side of Victory over and I have five acre property and it's already been approved as to subdivisions all around me. So, I understand the homeowners there and what they are saying. I don't plan to move. I just got there five years ago and when I did get here and all this started to happen, we went and looked at the Comprehensive Plan to see what was in store for us and, you know, it seems like we are back here an awful lot with people trying to amend that and, you know, it seems like sticking to the guns a little bit and actually keeping the plan in place, because some of us moved out here thinking this was how this area was going to develop, because that's what the city planners had come forth with. But now every time we come back and somebody comes up and says, well, you know, I want to sell my property, it's like, well, yes, you can sell your property. Everybody when they are ready to move on would want to sell to commercial, they make lots of money. But not everybody has to and not everybody needs that opportunity. They can still sell. So, I just would like to say that, that, you know, it doesn't have to be commercial on every comer. Not every property owner is going to get to sell commercial. It just -- you know, it has to be -- it has to be a plan that is going to be put forth going forward, so that people can know what to expect and it just seems like every time we come here it's like, well, we are going to amend it, we are going to amend it, we are going amend it and it's like why do we have to do that? You know, let's just stick with the plan. That's all I have to say. Moe: Thank you very much. Harold. H.Krusinski: My name is Harold Krusinski, 3475 East Falcon. Again, that's east -- or, yeah, southeast comer in what is Golden Eagle Estates. I guess what I would respectfully encourage you to do is for any development on any of these comers, wait until we actually have a preliminary plat and can actually put in place a developer's agreement, which will insure what really happens. The south -- or not the south. The northeast comer we saw very -- pretty nice looking business and mixed business and residential a couple years ago, which didn't look like a bad idea until we found out that we were sort of naive, we found out that was just a conceptual plan, which really had no basis in reality and had no connection to what would have to go in there in the future and now I'm hearing all these stories about big boxes. That had been a 15, 16 acre connected property and I see the sign there now, it says eight acres are for sale, which either means somebody's dropped out or someone bought part of it, and it is being developed potentially piecemeal. This one here -- I guess it would just be -- I think it's premature to come up with a change until we see something that you can actually hold the future property owners to and say this is what you presented, this is a real plan, we can have a developer's agreement, whether it's residential or whatever, a mile or so down the road we have the comer, I believe it's called Sage or Sageland, which is a small residential community on the comer of Locust Grove and Victory. The one to the southeast -- or southwest, again, is four-plexes and single family homes on a similar narrow strip. So, obviously, something is going to change in the future. I don't know that I agree it has to be commercial, but I would certainly -- whether it's residential or commercial, I would urge you to -- to just -- to look at something real, a real plan that Meridian Planning 8 Zoning Special Meeting August 14, 2008 Page 18 of 49 you can actually hold, whoever the property owners or developers are, too. So, I would just urge you to wait on this one until we have a better idea, if at all possible. Moe: Thank you. Any questions? Thank you very much. Well, that's all that has signed up. If there is anyone else in the audience that would like to come forward, you're more than welcome to come forward. I see no one in the audience. You have already spoke, sir. Pardon me? No, you have already had your time. I'm sorry. and, again, that's all that -- well, can I get the applicant to come back up? Nickel: Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Commissioners. Again, for the record, Shawn Nickel. A lot of great -- great testimony, so I will try to -- try to address some of the things that came up real briefly. Vem did state -- he was the first one to get up and he did speak of growth and change and that's exactly the reason we are in front of you today. If you know what a Comprehensive Plan is, it's a guide to development -- future development and it's somewhat of a moving target, because they are not -- they are not all perfect and so that the need for the changes from time to time and as you all know in this room, this area has experienced great change in the last five to ten years. Just a year and a half ago we changed this comer right here. You're probably -- in six months you're going to see some more changes -- well, maybe not, because it's a little bit slow right now, but that slowness is not going to last, it's going to -- it's going to get busy again, change is going to occur. This property right here is a product of that change. The folks that lived there the last 15, 20, 30 years are a testament to that. You know, they have talked about how this -- this area right here was all farmland and they were at that time probably high density for the area with their -- with their small one acre and two acre properties, but the area has changed. Had it not -- had it not changed and the density not come, there would be no need for the service commercial that we are -- that we are speaking of today. So, it is a product of its surroundings. Can't read my own writing. Sony. As far as the traffic, could you put back up the concept plan again, Anna? And as far as the -- as far as the traffic, I'm not going to sit here and claim that that is not a terrible temble intersection and a temble strip up and down here. We had a neighborhood meeting yesterday evening and -- where were we coming out of? This property right here and I almost got tagged just coming out. There is -- there is mature landscaping along here and all these access points and it's -- those are not safe uses. Whatever we decide to change this property at, what it is currently now is not -- not safe for that existing comdor and for what is planned when those -- when those improvements go on. Again, that's a product of the change and the growth in the area. It is no longer a rural little two lane highway -- or two lane road anymore, it's a -- it's going to be a major thoroughfare. Nine access points is what we see out there today. Service commercial is going to capture some of that. It's not going to capture all of it. There is going to be people driving from a mile or two to -- to the service area, but they are not going to have to drive two and three miles to get their basic services, because we are -- it's servicing the immediate area. Staff has said they -- in their staff report that they support high density, such as what we have -- what we did over here on Medford Place with four-plexes and that's going to increase traffic, too. High density is going to increase the impacts on the schools and -- I mean it's -- growth does -- does that. We are anticipating that this intersection is going to move forward in 2011, hopefully, and be Meridian Planning & Zoning Special Meeting August 14, 2008 Page 19 of 49 approved -- be improved by the highway. They, obviously, like to bump things back as they prioritize that five year work program, but they could -- if you start seeing some approved uses in the area, they are going to make that a higher priority to get that -- to get that intersection improved and not bump it back, because there is nothing, really, warranting that change. Right now there is not a whole lot of residential growth to the south and so that -- that need is not -- you know, it's the same as it's been for a couple years and the need's not there. I did indicate in my presentation that the three lanes were only on the west side. I wasn't stating that they are, you know, anywhere else, but the important thing is that immediately we have got three lanes in front of this property, with a tum lane that is going to help if -- you know, if uses do develop in the future before those improvements in the intersection that you -- you will have some safe entrance into that -- into that -- into that property. Mr. Aldridge pointed out -- or stated that what we are doing is piecemeal and that's what we are not doing, we are trying to -- if we would have come in originally with just this piece right there, small piece, that would be one thing. We are finishing out this entire island. I mean there is nothing left in this quarter section over here. It's all built out. So, we are a we are doing the right responsible thing by looking into the future. Yes, we only have a plan for this corner right now, but what we are doing is we are setting up future development here by providing those cross-access -- cross-access stubs and easements by providing those pathways, so when these next properties come in front of you for annexation, you will know what's there and staff will know to analyze what is approved, what ACRD is looking at for the future build out and the access points on this roadway and that development is going to -- is going to occur. If you look at this concept plan -- and I just -- we just threw this together, everything that's in the brown right here, just to give you an idea of what mixed use can be. So, we have thrown in an office building right here. We have thrown a -- this is, actually, an assisted living facility that would utilize Mr. Young's existing home with all his beautiful landscaping and trees back there. These are some four-plex concepts right here and these are some neighborhood offices, like a chiropractor or a dentist or something like that that could take access off of Brandys Jewel. Again, we have no idea if those will occur, but that's what we envision with multiple -- with multiple use. We don't envision this all being commercial, heavy commercial. It might all be office. Walgreen's is looking at this comer as well. It's not going to be -- and we know how Walgreen's is, they like to be real close to each other, but, guarantee, there is not going to be a Walgreen's on each comer. So, you know, this might not be a pharmacy here, but we are proposing the annexation at this time. So, we are -- this is what is in front of your for the annexation concept plan is for the whole thing. I think that's a responsible way to look at future growth and to justify the need for the Comprehensive Plan. Again, ACHD has looked at this, they have approved -- my client originally wanted that full -- there was a full access. Then, the right-in, right-out. ACHD said, no, this is too dangerous and we all agreed to the right-in access only, so we are not going to -- we are not going to affect -- no one's going to be able to get out here and tum left and go back up Eagle Road, they are going to have to come out here and, eventually, they will come out to a -- to a better full access point in the future. I will stand for any questions you have. Moe: Any questions of the applicant? Meridian Planning & Zoning Speaal Meeting August 14, 2008 Page 20 of 49 O'Brien: I have one, Mr. Chairman. Moe: Mr. O'Brien. O'Brien: Shawn, so the area that you currently show Walgreen's, that is -- if you -- if this was approved, that would be the first build up area -- built out area that you would tackle and you would have an access shown right there, but nothing else until later? Nickel: This boundary right here is what is part of the annexation and development agreement. So, again, if that's important, as you guys know, the development agreement we can lock in specifics into that annexation as far as lighting, landscaping, and all that. But, yes, that is the full access that was approved by ACHD -- O'Brien: Well, that's aright-in, right-out; right? Nickel: No. Right now that's afull -- that's a full access. O'Brien: Full access. Nickel: Yes. O'Brien: Not signalized. Nickel: And originally we had proposed it over here further away from the intersection. ACHD wanted us to move it back and align with this driveway across the street right there. Again, they have approved that access. O'Brien: Okay. -Thank you. Moe: Any other questions of the applicant? Thank you very much. Well, Commissioners, any comments? Newton-Huckabay: These are tough. Moe: Yes, they are. Newton-Huckabay: These are very tough. Rohm: I'll start, if you don't mind. Moe: Mr. Rohm, please. Rohm: Thank you all for your testimony and I know it was all heart felt and, believe me, we listen to it with that same amount of intensity. The three things that -- that I think that this property currently has that we need to take a look at is the fact that it is an island. Meridian Planning & Zoning Special Meeting August 14, 2008 Page 21 of 49 It's developed all around it. The second thing is that the proposed development will actually reduce the accesses onto Victory Road. And the third thing is there is currently a very good natural buffer to the north and those are the three things that I see related to this proposal that compel me to be in support of the project and I think that the fact that there are other mixed use designations down the road doesn't change the fact that this particular parcel of ground to be developed any other way I think would be -- add more congestion to the vicinity than the applicant's proposal. So, that's my position. Thank you. Marshall: Mr. Chairman? Moe: Mr. Marshall. Marshall: While I am very sympathetic to the fact that it is an island and that there is a number of accesses and those could be limited, I truly feel that our -- the ideal and the efforts behind the Comprehensive Plan was to move the neighborhood retail to the center of the section, to the half mile points, for a very good reason. A lot of thought and effort went into that. We show that here. There is a spot for it, it's available, and if we keep allowing retail to move out to the comers, because that's traditionally the way it's been done, because that's the way it's always worked and that's -- you know, we don't want to move to the center points, because, you know, it always works out on the comer. We don't want to try anything new. Well, this works elsewhere and that's why a lot of years of study effort went into it and that's why this was placed here and if we keep approving it here it won't move here. And, personally, I am not in favor of allowing commercial out on the comers of the sections, because it does create traffic issues. I know -- I understood there are nine accesses, but there are only one family accessing each one of those. When we start having two and three accesses off there, where you have got people running in and out of Walgreen's and offices and four-plexes, you have got significantly more traffic going over maybe a couple fewer accesses, but in that same area that's going to cause more traffic issues. Even though there was fewer accesses, there is going to be a lot more traffic using those accesses. So, that's where stand. Moe: Thank you, Mr. Marshall. Mr. O'Brien, any comments? O'Brien: Mr. Chairman, yeah, I agree with the two previous Commissioners on what they say. There is a lot of credence to both ways and Ifeel -- also feel sympathetic to the homeowners in that area. They are an island, as Commissioner Rohm had mentioned, you know, and we just, what, approved an area to the northeast -- or southeast area there where it has similar accesses to that particular area and I don't understand the difference between that -- between that, this area here, and this. In fact, I think it would be safer having one or two accesses along Victory than it would be with eight or nine. So, again, caught in a quandary about the Comprehensive Plan and what we need to see in the future is -- you're right, this is a neighborhood center, which should draw in what we planned on doing -- should draw in businesses in the future. But, dam, you know, this -- I don't know what to think about what to do for the property Meridian Planning 8 Zoning Special Meeting August 14, 2008 Page 22 of 49 owners here when Eagle Road gets -- or Victory Road gets built out to at least the three lanes, which is not going to help the traffic much on Victory Road, because of all the access -- I have seen Victory Road here go all the way across to Cloverdale, as well as Eagle Road, even when it's built out with the full signalized intersection I think it's going to be very very difficult traffic flow along this area. That said, I'm not going to say one way or the other right now, because I'm really tom between both. I see it working one way and I see it working another. Looking at the long term Comprehensive Plan, I'm tom with that and I just think this is a unique situation that's really going to take some thought and I'm not sure. if we have to approve it tonight. Maybe six months or a year downstream might be a better time to look at it, I'm not sure. I'm just going to leave it like that and listen to what the rest of the Commissioners have to say. Thank you. Moe: Well, I'll tell you what, if you'd like to go last, I'll go ahead. How is that? Newton-Huckabay: Either way is fine with me. Go right ahead. Moe: Well, I, too, am very tom on this one here. Quite frankly, I could see this basically staying the way the Comprehensive Plan is anticipated. I, quite frankly, am probably leaning more towards that than I am looking at the change. Again I was involved in a lot of the Comprehensive Plan changes and whatnot and the neighborhood centers, I will tell you I am one of the folks that have spoken long and hard that I wanted to see the neighborhood concept looked at, you know, in the center areas and whatnot and I do believe we still need to give this a chance. You know, we have just a couple that we are doing and it seems that we keep making these changes on the map to go back to comers, so we are already defeating the plan. So, I'm a little bit concerned with that. Having said that, though, the fact that this is mixed use community, I would anticipate on the annexation that is along with this, I could almost anticipate that that would be the only commercial that I could see that I could approve if this thing went forward for the rest of the property to be something other than commercial, you know, and, basically, what the applicant brought forward, you know, tonight in explanation of what they thought it may be able to happen with it, that would be very favorable to me. But, here again, that's a concept, we don't know what happens there. And, Mr. O'Brien, I don't know that -- you may have said the smartest thing of all and that is we maybe wait six months to a year to see how things are going before we do make a decision, you know, make a change on this property. I don't know. I'm a little bit tom both ways, too. Commissioner Newton-Huckabay. Newton-Huckabay: I have a couple comments. You all -- at least most of the staff know that I actually grew up in this area and who was it -- I think Mr. Jeffries talked about the accidents on Victory Road and Eagle. I was one of those about 30 years ago when I was kid. So, this is an area that this is very hard forme to see the changes and I have seen a lot of you in here -- I'm still confused, I don't even know where Mr. Aldridge owns property, obviously, anymore. I'm a little concerned that that is the low density on the map, I don't think that low density residential on that is the appropriate designation for that comer. I'm not -- you know, I'm looking at the transition and someone made the comment that we go from R-4 to R-8 and, then, I'm looking at Bedford Place below it Meridian Planning 8 Zoning Special Meeting August 14, 2008 Page 23 of 49 and the fact that it is - if we ever actually develop that, a neighborhood center in the academic nature that they are presented. I could see that in my mind I think residential in that area and those people who live in Thousand Springs and Woodhaven are probably going to cringe when they hear me say this, but I think this is a great place for four-plexes, similar to Bedford Place. I think it would be an excellent place for multi- family development on this comer. I think it's close to schools. It's close to employment centers. It has -- it will be, if it develops out, close to a neighborhood center. So, I am going to lean towards moving with it -- with residential, with the -- that's my opinion and -- I mean I'm not a professional planner and I'm not a planning academic, but I think that maybe transitioning to an R-8 to an R-15 in that area would -- might be the best use -- best use of that property and it might give us some -- some additional multi-family in that part of town to serve those employment centers. So, for that reason I think I'm going to stick with the recommendation of the city and tell all the homeowners out there I -- I do appreciate and I empathize, because it is very difficult live in a rural area and be surrounded and feel like you have no control over what goes around you. And Idon't -- there is nothing that I can or do that can fix that, but I do think that -- that your property and residential -- my second choice would be mixed use community, but I do think a higher density residential would be -- would be a great addition to that part of the city, so -- but I thank all of you for coming out tonight and I -- again, I apologize for that, because it's a tough situation. Moe: Thank you, Commissioners. Can I get someone to make a motion to close the public hearing? Marshall: Mr. Chair, I move that we close the public hearing on -- find it here. Thank you. CPA 08-002 and AZ 8-010. Rohm: Second. Moe: It's been moved and seconded to close the public hearing on CPA 08-002 and AZ 08-010. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? That motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Moe: And, Commissioners, as we discussed earlier, we move this one to the end of the agenda, so that we can get through the -- item number six and, then, we would, then, start acting on all others. Rohm: So moved. Newton-Huckabay: Do we need to make a motion to that? Marshall: Is there any way we could move it to after number six? Newton-Huckabay: So that we could wrap up for those who are in the audience for this Comprehensive Plan amendment. Meridian Planning & Zoning Special Meeting August 14, 2008 Page 24 of 49 Moe: Well, that's -- whoever is going to make the motion, put it where you want. How is that? Rohm: Mr. Chairman? Moe: Mr. Rohm. Rohm: I move that we continue Items No. 4 and 5, CPA 08-002 and AZ 08-010, continue them to after the hearing of No. 6, which is CPA 08-008. O'Brien: So moved. Newton-Huckabay: Second. Moe: Continue AZ -- excuse me. CPA 08-002 and AZ 08-010 to the -- after the Hearing No. 6 on our agenda. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? That motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Moe: Because this next hearing is going to be awhile as well, we are going to go ahead and take a ten minute break. (Recess.) Item 6: Continued Public Hearing from August 7, 2008: CPA 08-008 Request for Comprehensive Plan Amendment to modify the Future Land Use Map by changing the land use designation from Medium Density Residential to Mixed Use -Community for approximately 5 acres for Postal Annex by Jack Gish -Southwest Comer of Meridian Road and McMillan Road: Moe: Well, at this time we will be back in session and at this time I would like to open the continued public hearing on CPA 08-008 for the Postal Annex and start with the staff report, please. Canning: Thank you, Chairman Moe, Commissioners. Nice to see you all again. This is -- as you know, Caleb did the project, but I am -- he has prepared me -- give me notes, so if it doesn't sound like me, it's because it's Caleb. But I will be presenting this application tonight and forgive me if I call you Madam Mayor, Mr. Moe, so I will try not to do that. The project before you tonight is the Postal Annex comp plan amendment and, please, note there is an associated annexation application, but that one has been re- noticed for September 4th. But, again, because the two are integrally tied, as you saw on the previous one, I will be talking about the annexation and the associated site plan with that annexation. The property is located on the southwest comer of McMillan Road and Meridian Road. This five acre property contains two parcels. One parcel contains