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HomeMy WebLinkAboutSeptember 2, 2008 C/C MinutesMeridian City Council September 2, 2008 Page 15 of 71 Watts: We are anticipating to start on the 8th. We are still awaiting -- well, actually, we have our consultant Terracon is working on -- working with DEQ to get our approval to move the dirt on the site. We have verbal approval from DEQ, which, basically, has told Terracon that they won't issue a written, because they are more interested in the groundwater and they don't anticipate that this is going to cause any issues with the groundwater, as long as we pave over it. So, we are anticipating to move forward on the 8th. De Weerd: Okay. Very good. Okay. Anything you would like to add? Okay. Council? Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: I move we approve the bid for our east parking lot phase five for the City Hall construction, Terra West, 127,900. Axelson Concrete Construction, 28,720. Sunshine Landscape, Incorporated, $57,317.37. Tri-State Electric for 67,540 dollars. For a total of $281,277.37 and for the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to attest. . Rountree: Second. De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Madam Clerk, will you call roll. Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea. De Weerd: Thank you. All ayes. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 7: Items Moved from Consent Agenda: De Weerd: There were no items moved from the Consent Agenda. Item 8: Continued Public Hearing from August 12, 2008: AP 08-004 Request for City Council Review for a McDonalds Redbox (DVD kiosk) located in an approved C-N zone by Anna Canning, Meridian Planning Director - 3415West Cheny Lane: De Weerd: So, we will go to Item No. 8, which is a continued Public Hearing because of posting requirements on AP 08-004. I will start with staff comments. Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is the McDonald's Redbox project. It's located at 3415 Cheny Lane, near Ten Mile intersection. The application before you tonight is a City Council review of a certificate of zoning compliance and that Meridian City Council September 2, 2008 Page 16 of 71 certificate of zoning compliance was to install a Redbox movie DVD rental kiosk on the southwestern portion of the property. De Weerd: Hey, Anna, can you talk into the mike a little bit. You're not that loud. Canning: And that the Redbox is located just north of the entrance for the drive-up window. You can see it here on the site plan. The kiosk is about 24 square feet in area. We do have some photos. This isn't the facility. This is a different one. But this is the general look of the Redboxes. Staff approved the certificate of zoning compliance on June 26, 2008. And although the plans comply with current code, they are concerned that the proposed 25 hour use conflicts with information that was given the neighbors during talks with the developers and the builders when the McDonald's itself was being constructed. I requested City Council review to insure that the neighbors can express their concerns to Council. And with that I will answer any questions you may have. De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions for Mrs. Canning at this time? Zaremba: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba. Zaremba: And this may be a question for the police department. If people are going to have access to it 24 hours a day, it would make sense to me, both for the benefit of the neighbors in the residential area behind it, but also for surveillance by police, that it actually be on the north side of the building. Has that been discussed? Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Zaremba, we did talk to the owner about relocating the facility on the east side to be further away from the residents, but we never discussed the north site. De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions for staff? Rountree: Madam Mayor, given that question, the police chief is over there. Do you have any issues with the surveillance question? Lavey: Madam Mayor, Council, we don't really have any issue as far as where it's at. If it's going to be there, then, we will address it as it's there. It's just a matter of if it's something that's there, then, we know that we need to pay more attention to it. We like to encourage our officers to actually drive into the parking lots anyways and so I'd rather have them drive into the parking lot or get out and walk around than actually just drive by Cheny Lane and think that they have already checked it. So, I know it's an issue for some people, but as long as it's visible and as long as it's lit, I really don't have an opinion of where it's at on the building. Meridian City Council September 2, 2008 Page 17 of 71 De Weerd: Okay. Is the applicant here? Would you like to add -- would you like to provide testimony? If you will, please, state your name and address for the record. Seamons: My name is Scott Seamons. I'm with Baumgard Construction. Address is 880 West Amity in Boise. De Weerd: Thank you. Seamons: I'm here on behalf of Redbox. We are the general contractor that submitted the application. Redbox is intended for the McDonald's customers. The machine doesn't attract a large quantity of traffic outside of McDonald's customers. It's primarily used during the day for McDonald's customers. As far as averages go, after hours I know they -- the machine is operational 24 hours. They are averaging three to five rentals from 11:00 to 3:00 p.m., but -depending on the site it's around. The intent of this machine isn't to disrupt the neighbors, it mainly just serves the McDonald's customers. De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: You meant 11:00 p.m. to 3:00 a.m., didn't you? Seamons: Yes. 11:00 p.m. to 3:00 a.m. I'm song. Bird: Just wanted to clear that up. Seamons: Yeah. De Weerd: So, you have in -- you have two boxes at Albertson's. Seamons: Redbox currently does, I believe, yes. De Weerd: Okay. So, this would be by a different owner or franchise or -- Seamons: It's the same company as far as Redbox goes, yes. De Weerd: Okay. And so are you taking the three to five rentals during that time period from the experience of those two Redboxes? Seamons: No. It's based off of their -- on some other sites throughout the valley at McDonald's restaurants. De Weerd: Okay. Bird: Is there a Redbox at the McDonald's on Corporate, isn't there? Up in that area? Seamons: Yes. Meridian City Council September 2, 2008 Page 18 of 71 Bird: And it's 24 hours, isn't it? Seamons: Yes. Yeah. All of the external machines are 24 hours. De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions at this point? Okay. Thank you. Okay. This is a public hearing. I did not have anyone signed up to testify. Is there anyone who would like to provide testimony? Okay. Yes, please. If you will, please, state your name and address for the record. Caldwell: My name is Steve Caldwell. I live at 3476 West Fir Creek Court in Meridian. My home is directly behind -- I share the longest property line with the McDonald's development. I would like to start out by putting a little context to how we got where we are today. I want to read from the Meridian City Council meeting minutes from March 15th, 2005. Several members were here, some were not. This was when the Conditional Use Permit was reviewed for what was, then, known as the Shops at Cherry Lane. The -- Brent Dixon, who was the applicant, gave some pretty thorough testimony as to what his plans were. Highlighted at the bottom is what I'd like to talk to. His statements, in the developer's words: In terms of type of use, I mentioned a bank. I'm also in discussions right now with a cell phone company. I could see an ice cream parlor coming in here. A Hallmark-type shop. A quick sandwich Subway-type use. There is some certain obnoxious uses that I would be willing to, as conditional approval, shy away from. I don't think this is the right spot for a fuel center. I don't think this is the right spot for a contemporary fast food restaurant in the sense of a McDonald's or a Taco Bell. As a condition of approval the Planning Commission asked if we would be willing to move the drive-thru right to here and we are willing to do so. So, he's speaking to some specifics about how the layout was proposed at that time. Not happily, but notwithstanding, as well as a condition of that there was some concern -- we are going to hear about that in a moment from some of the neighbors as far as noise and lights go. As some of these were similar concerns that were raised when Albertson's was originally approved several years ago and part of that was mitigated by the erection of a masonry wall that we have agreed to continue the wall up to the southern edge of the property and so, then, also remove the drive-thru. And, then, the meeting goes on to a bunch of other questions. So, just the context of the mere fact that the McDonald's is there. So, the developer was unable to fulfill his tenants as he originally proposed. Two and a half years later development started after he worked with the city to bring in McDonald's, which he stated in his original testimony was an obnoxious use. We have a McDonald's now. We can't get past that. The Redbox is yet an extension of their business operation to 24 hour operation and so I -- I'm also on the homeowners association board. I reviewed the request with the board members, so I'm here to speak on my behalf, as well as the homeowners association board and -- De Weerd: You want to add two minutes to that. Caldwell: -- current operation at the restaurant now is 11:00 p.m. weekdays, 1:00 a.m. weekends. What we are talking about is a 24 hour unsupervised vending operation Meridian City Council September 2, 2008 Page 19 of 71 immediately adjacent to a residential neighborhood. We have concerns about lights, noise, a potential for loitering and vandalism. We have no proof of that. And increased traffic flow. There is two existing Redboxes already on the site at the Albertson's, which everyone discussed, which is completely shielded from the neighborhood. This Redbox will be immediately adjacent to and visible from the neighborhood. I discussed this with the homeowners association and we were in agreement and this -- I'll read for you the letter that I sent to Anna and Robert regarding the homeowners association perspective on this. The letter I sent says: I discussed this with the HOA and we are in consensus that we do not want a 24 hour business operation immediately adjacent to our sub development. We are not opposed to a Redbox movie unit rental inside the McDonald's building where it is subject to normal business hours and under business supervision, but do strongly oppose a unit on the exterior of the building. An interior placement is also consistent with several other McDonald's in our area. A comment that's not in the letter here. The McDonald's that's by the Fred Meyer on Cheny Lane and Locust Grove, internal unit. The McDonald's in Eagle, interior unit. So, interior units are placed in McDonald's and so this is not an usual situation. And we are not opposed to them having a Redbox where it's under supervision, normal business hours. I closed the letter by saying: Please contact me if you wish to discuss this further. We are very happy that you sought our input and hope it's reflected in your decision. Please inform me of the outcome of this matter. And I understand that they have continued to pursue this and so, you know, we are here to voice our opposition to it. We did have traffic access, but the latest one I have photos of. These occur right on my back fence. Occurred the 21st of August. A rather significant one took two hours to clean up. I don't know if you want to see those. And I also have several photos of the -- the view from -- Ithought Ihad one here. How did I get here without it? So, I took some photos from the location of the Redbox unit and its adjacency to the neighborhood, as opposed to how the Redboxes are positioned at Albertson's. Completely shielded on the Albertson's side, but on our side they are immediately adjacent to our housing development and the homes of the neighborhood. De Weerd: Thank you. Caldwell: I think that's all I have to say. Thank you for the extended time. De Weerd: Council, do you have any questions? Bird: I have none. Rountree: I have none. De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Theasons: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, my name is Daryl Theasons. I live at 3487 West Fir Creek, right next to Steve Caldwell. A lot of my points mimic what Steve says. Our main concern is the lighting that is going to be needed for security for this location. As of right now the lights are deemed, most of them are turned out for the Meridian City Council September 2, 2008 Page 20 of 71 parking lot when the business closes. If the Redbox is put in, in order for it to be secure we feel that they would need to have lighting on this parking lot 24 hours -- or at least during dark. And that will be shining light into our bedroom window. As it is right now, those are extinguished, you know, at 11:00 p.m. week days and 1:00 p.m. on the weekends. Other things that we were concerned about is the late night traffic that's going to be driving through that parking lot. The main access to that Redbox, the driveway is right next to our fence. Parallel to our fence, so those cars that are coming in there will be driving right by our fence at all hours of the day and night with their music on, whatever. You know, right now that ends at 11:00 o'clock on the weekdays and that will not be the case if there is a 24 hour business there. Loitering in the parking lot. You know, right now it is unattractive for people to be loitering in that parking lot, because there is nothing to draw them there. We are afraid that if there is a 24 hour kiosk there that it will be more incentive for them to loiter there. There are two existing Redbox machines, as Steve mentioned, on the same property, but where they are shielded from the neighborhood up under the awning at the Albertson's. These will handle the three to five returns, rentals, that are needed in those off business hours. I cannot see that two machines cannot handle the traffic flow from 11:00 a.m. to 6:00 -- or 11:00 p.m. to 6:00 a.m., that there should be a machine that needs to be added to this McDonald's. And, again, we have no problem with -- with putting in a Redbox inside the location. It seems to work quite well for the McDonald's corporation at the Locust Grove and Fairview location. It's supervised -- it's still accessible during business hours and it would have no impact on our neighborhood, no additional lighting, no additional noise. That's -- again, we came before the Council to just state our opposition to a 24 hour exterior kiosk. De Weerd: Thank you. Chrisman: Mayor de Weerd and Councilmen. I think several of you are aware, know me by now. Mary Ann Chrisman. I live directly behind McDonald's and most of you are aware that -- Nary: Address, ma'am. De Weerd: Oh, I'm sorry. Nary: For the record. De Weerd: If you can -- Chrisman: I'm sorry. 3440 West Elm Creek. Directly behind McDonald's. And I think many of you are aware that I have been kind of battling with this McDonald's issue for a long time and it's a sore subject with many of the neighbors in Parkside Creek. This may appear to be a small situation with the Redbox, but it does impact us and I do speak for several of the neighbors along side that were not able to make it tonight as well. They are all opposed. I have not met one that was not opposed to having a box Meridian City Council September 2, 2008 Page 21 of 71 there. I have -- I have seen the two boxes in front of Albertson's and there are times where there is quite a crowd there and the later it is it seems like the younger the crowd is. And I have two teenagers and I'm amazed at how they want to run out at midnight and go rent a movie. I mean that just amazes me. But that's what they do. And if you remember, Mayor, we were concerned about the little bench and the seating area with the grass area at McDonald's. We wanted to get rid of that, because we didn't want to do anything to promote congregation of the kids and we feel that this Redbox -- it gives these kids an opportunity to go out late and rent movies in our backyard. Now, you may not be aware of this, but all of us that are anywhere remotely near the McDonald's can no longer ever sleep in in the mornings thanks to McDonald's. When they dump that dumpster in the moming, it is, what, from 6:00 -- say around 6:00 a.m. We all get a wake-up call. Right? We all get awake-up call around 6:00 to 6:30 a.m. Saturday moming, Sunday moming, every moming. And I could tell you it's very disheartening, because none of us can ever sleep in again and it's very loud. Now, we are wanting to put a Redbox out there to where kids can congregate lay at night and they do do it, because I have observed it. So, we are not going to be able to get to bed early, either. Now, that's not to say every one of them are going to be loud and noisy every night, but there are going to be nights that that is going to happen. I have seen it at Albertson's. So, we feel -- and we have all talked about it, that we don't have a problem with a Redbox within the structure itself. That's fine, because, then, it can be monitored. There is the time issue involved. There is not going to be the congregation. That's a different issue. So, we are comfortable with that. To have it outside is a real serious problem for us, because we feel that McDonald's itself is a poor location, because of where its -- the situation is located. Now to add a Redbox is just going to promote additional lighting, additional traffic, and additional kids congregate later at night. And if any of you have seen some of those, kids to congregate there very late. Thank you very much. De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Additional testimony? Hi. Chacamino: Hello. Mike Chacamino. I am vice-president of Baumgard Construction. De Weerd: You want to also pull that up and, then, state your -- Chacamino: Mike Chacamino. Vice-president of Baumgard Construction. I live at 2160 West Canalo Drive in Meridian. De Weerd: Thank you. Chacamino: I have a unique perspective on this in that being involved with McDonald's and working with several of them and oftentimes late at night when we are doing work between shifts and whatnot, a lot of all minors I have observed. I have observed the Redboxes and how they -- how they are frequented during the evening. I have -- it varies site to site and I have observed that it's -- that the traffic and the impacts in the off hours has been pretty minimal. I have, honestly, never seen a congregation of teenagers around Redboxes, any of them. And I have been in several -- several stores Meridian City Council September 2, 2008 Page 22 of 71 late at night. Usually what I'll see is I'll see a customer pull up, stare at it, car might be idling. Usually they shut it off. Headlights are facing towards the Redbox and they pick a movie and, then, move on. I had mentioned that I have a unique perspective, because I'm also a neighbor of this neighborhood. I don't live in the neighborhood. And I certainly am sensitive to their concerns. I wouldn't want to be woken up at night either. But .being in the neighborhood and frequenting that McDonald's and that Albertson's quite a bit, I haven't ever observed anybody congregating there. The other thing I wanted to point out is that the Redbox does not -- got to remember this, does not require 24 hour lighting. It's self lit. I have been in several stores where the lights were dimmed because it was after hours and the store wasn't on and, yet, the Redbox -- its canopy was illuminated enough to allow people to come in and do their business. I don't feel traffic increase is a valid argument. If you're going to have two to three cars a night going in there utilizing this, maybe four, that can't be anymore of an increase than people just driving through there for whatever reason. My big concern about this is -- and lempathize with the neighbors the process that they have gone through to get to this point and the perception, true or not, that they were misled, I would probably be a little frustrated, too, with that. However, my concern is that this debate about this Redbox is not about the Redbox, it's more about the McDonald's being in place. Accidents on Cheny slash Fairview, that's, not a novel concept, that's a busy street with a large Albertson's in there and several other stores. I find it difficult to blame that on the McDonald's and I certainly do not see the Redbox application being relative to accidents on the street. It was mentioned -there was mention of other McDonald's having Redboxes installed inside and there are several of them. However, they tend to be older stores that are -- have a Hitch or a spot that easily accommodates the inside Redbox and that's not the case of this store. That's all I have to say. Thank you. De Weerd: Thank you. Yes, sir. Baker: Mayor, Council Members. My name is Rich Baker. I live at 3468 West Elm Creek Drive, Meridian. I'm right behind the McDonald's and the Albertson's as well. And I would like to say that I'm with my fellow neighbors and I strongly oppose the Redbox at night. If there was only three or four people that were going to be going up there between 11:00 and 6:00 in the morning, then, they wouldn't really have a desire to have it in the middle of the night I wouldn't think. I think that definitely there will be more people that would go to the Redbox in the middle of the night and in addition to the - to the noise problems with people just loitering there, we have a tendency of a lot of screeching and motorcycles as well that are really loud and I think that in addition to the -- just the kids being loud that will go there in the middle of the night, because I mean any kids that are -- you know, even two people that are going to go in there in the middle of the night, they are going to have a tendency to be loud, they are not going to be -- you know, if they are up that late they are not really concerned about the neighbors and in addition to that, you know, I have noticed that -- I have only lived there for five months, but that there is a lot of screeching and the motorcycles, they just are really loud and I feel like we will have a lot more of that going on in the middle of the night as well. So, again, I'm definitely, strongly opposed. I would hope that they would just put it inside. Meridian City Council September 2, 2008 Page 23 of 71 De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Any additional testimony? Typically we don't have rebuttal from the -- but Council? Bird: I don't care. De Weerd: Okay. Bird: Whatever. Chrisman: Mary Ann Chrisman. I just want to make one quick comment. I do disagree with one comment the gentleman made and it's not to be argumentative, but I have personally witnessed massive amounts of people at the Redbox in front of Albertson's very late at night. Not every night, but I have seen it and Iwas -- and that's why I think they have added a second one, because at one time they had one and, then, they added a second one. I think it's because it couldn't handle the amount of people. So, I have personally -- and I go there all the time and I have personally seen large amounts of people standing around at the Redbox very late at night. So, I do disagree with that. Thank you. De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. If there is no further testimony, if the applicant would like to have wrap-up remarks. Final comments. No? Okay. Thank you. Council, any additional information needed at this point? Rountree: I don't need any. Other than some guidance from the planning administrator. De Weerd: Okay. Canning: Yes, sir. Rountree: What's -- I guess the note I have to myself, what's the action from Council? You have asked us to review this, but you have said that it is consistent with code. So, what are our action choices? Canning: Mr. Nary and I were discussing that via a-mail and perhaps Mr. Nary can help me out. Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Ithink -- I guess it sort of depends on what you want to do. I mean if -- some of the testimony is wanting either a limitation on that type of use adjacent to residential properties --Iwas trying to look at the code to see if we have -- in that particular type of zone if we have time limitations. Normally, unless done at the annexation stage there really isn't any time limitation on those. But if your concern is this is a use that's adjacent to the residential properties that isn't allowed in other parts of the city or currently isn't found in other parts of the city, we can certainly look at that if you would like us to take a look and see whether there is some restrictions that might apply. That's the only thing I can think -- see. I mean I think the Meridian City Council September 2, 2008 Page 24 of 71 testimony I think is accurate, I mean most of the Redboxes that are in -- some of them are near residential properties are inside the stores, some of them that are in more commercial areas are outside the stores. I don't know if that's just a preference of the customers -- or of the property owners -- I have no idea. I know the testimony is correct, the one at McDonald's on Locust Grove and Fairview is in the store. The one at McDonald's by the freeway, both at Eagle Road and Meridian Road are outside the store. But, again, there is no residences that are adjacent to it. Right now these are found in limited areas. We don't have a lot of 24 hour uses in the city in general. We do at the Maverick at the comer of Cheny Lane and Linder, but there are no external uses to the facility. But, again, that's not where you're being asked to decide that. So, I don't know right off the top of my head in looking at the code if we have specific time requirements for these in our code or by the district. This one I don't believe is a neighborhood commercial district. I think that's what Mrs. Canning asked and I don't recall that this is a neighborhood commercial district. It is? Okay. De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Nary. Any further questions from Council? Bird: I have none, Mayor. Rountree: Well, Madam Mayor, that was a good response from a lawyer. Now, what did you tell me? Bird: Now condense it down. De Weerd: It's your decision. Nary: What you would like us to consider -- Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, if you would like us to look and see if what you're seeking is some time restrictions -- currently our time restrictions are done at the time we annex the property, we make that maybe a condition of a development agreement. For example, the Walgreens that's across the street at Ten Mile and Cheny Lane has a time restriction that was done at the time that we rezoned that property, but there isn't a general time restriction in our city code in all circumstances and I think Mrs. Canning and I were both trying to see if there was a specific one by this zone, but I'm not aware that there is. Mrs. Canning seems to be looking rather intently, but I'm not aware that we have a specific time restriction otherwise for this type of use. If you'd like us to craft that, I guess we would like a week for us to figure out if that's something we can do in our code. De Weerd: Okay. Zaremba: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba. Zaremba: We have a number of things in our code and I guess they are all over in different sections that limit what can be done within 300 feet of residences, what can be Meridian City Council September 2, 2008 Page 25 of 71 done within 100 feet of residences. I'm not sure this distance -- I'm sure it's within 300 feet. I don't know if it's within 100 foot. I don't know. Legal or not, I don't think it's fair to put it there. It is an additional drive-up business. I would think that would require a CUP and if that's the way we need to go I'd ask that we pursue that. But it would seem to me it either needs to be inside or on the north side of the building. It's not appropriate to me to have it near the residences. Someway we need to get that done. Rountree: Anna, if you would put up the first slide. I think it was an exterior shot showing the location. Okay. The first photo. Excuse me. Thank you. You have to remember who this is coming from, but it seems to me that to put -- and there is nobody here from McDonald's, apparently, other than our contractors. Well, this question would be for McDonald's. Is the next thing we are going to be seeing from the McDonald's corporation is the World Bank of McDonald's in a drive-thru banking situation? It appears we have got a banking situation going on there. So, is that an approved use? Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is a photo from a different location. Rountree: Oh, this isn't at that location? Canning: No. Rountree: Okay. Canning: This is not. This would be a stand alone kiosk and it's unfortunate that this is the photo we have, because I believe the one at Cherry is more attractive than this one. It's a stand alone kiosk as well, but -- Rountree: Okay. Obviously, it wouldn't be this location. It doesn't have a Redbox. I stand corrected. But the banking activity is yet another issue. Canning: And, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Rountree, with regard to the -- what I was intently looking for is we did pass an ordinance recently -- it's not on the codified pages yet for some reason and I don't remember exactly how it goes, but the C-N district does have time limitations, but I believe it's only in the purpose statement and the idea of putting in the purpose statement is that we could make arrangements with folks as they were annexing to put that into the DA provisions, because the existing uses to put a limitation on them didn't seem the appropriate way to go when we passed that ordinance change. So, that's what I was looking for to verify that, but that is my recollection. I can't verify it at this moment. Regardless, that ordinance codification change was not done when this application came in, it had happened since we accepted the CZC for the Redbox. Rountree: Thank you. Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Rountree. Meridian City Council September 2, 2008 Page 26 of 71 Rountree: A question for the representative for McDonald's, if you would. De Weerd: If you will, please, just state your name and address for the record. Darmody: Sure. It's Rick Darmody. 12959 North Andy's Gulch, Boise, Idaho. De Weerd: Thank you. Rountree: You have heard a number of testimonies this evening. My question relates to your willingness or ability to explore the Redbox in an interior location. Darmody: As was stated by one of the representatives from Baumgard, the design of the new building, which is what is on Cheny Lane, does not as easily accommodate the inside location. The other reason to pursue the outside location isn't so much to get late night transactions, as the neighbors are concerned about, which I understand, as it is just to make it more visible so people know that it's there. The two locations that you're referring to that have -- that the neighbors have referred to that have inside locations -- excuse me -- inside Redbox locations are the only two that we have in the valley and just happens one's in Meridian and one's nearby in Eagle. The one in Eagle does significantly fewer transactions than a McDonald's restaurant of similar volume. The one at Locust Grove does slightly less, not significantly less, but it's also right at the front door as you walk in. So, that helps the visibility as well. I would be happy to pursue that with Redbox. It's definitely not Redbox's preference to pursue an inside machine if they don't have to and it wouldn't be my preference, because it takes up space in the lobby and I think it detracts from the overall ambiance in the restaurant, so that wouldn't be my choice either. And if I could just address the picture, I -- Councilman Rountree, I apologize, I didn't understand what you were asking, but this picture is taken at a co-branded Chevron - McDonald's location and those signs are Chevron's signs, to give an example of the Redbox, it just so happens that they have some signs posted on the wall there that referenced their ATM and apparently they sell money orders as well. I wasn't aware of that. So, that was the reference to the banking. It has to do with the Chevron side. Rountree: John's in the banking business. Zaremba: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba. Zaremba: Would you consider or be able to put it on the north side of the building? Darmody: We haven't explored that option. One thing that was done during construction, because it was, to be honest, much cheaper to do it during construction, was to put in the infrastructure to accommodate the Redbox, the weight of it and things. It needs reinforced concrete and we didn't put it on the north side, but we could look at Meridian City Council September 2, 2008 Page 27 of 71 that, I suppose, putting it towards the front on the -- I'm sorry, around the comer on the front the building. It will require some additional construction to make that happen. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: Going to the north side there, that's your drive-thru? As you come out you can either go right or left? Isn't there a driveway there on the north side? Darmody: Are you speaking the north -- can we look at this -- can I approach the picture? De Weerd: Yeah. And you can take that microphone right there. Darmody: Sorry, I'm not very tall. Yeah. Right there. Is that the side of the building that we are referencing? Bird: Yeah. Darmody: Well, the drive -- the drive lane goes on the east side of the building and, then, there is a decision making process right there at the end of the drive-thru lane after you have received your food to go left to that exist or I suppose around the building or to the right through Albertson's parking lot. Bird: Okay. Is there room between there -- between the building and the drive-thru to -- because Mrs. Chrisman's right, I have seen -- during the day I have seen big stacks at the Redbox -- at a lot of the Redboxes, so I fear for the safety aspect if you had -- if you put it on the north, as long as that's going to be a drive-thru and think it has to be a drive-thru, because everybody don't want to come out through Albertson's parking lot. Darmody: I'm sorry, I'm not sure I understand the concern. Bird: Well, do you have enough room between the building and the drive-thru? Darmody: The kiosk would fit on the sidewalk, I believe. I would have to go with Baumgard representatives on the north side. Bird: Okay. Darmody: There is a grassy area there as well before you get to the drive lane across the front of the building. My only concern there would be parking as well. People pulling up to quick drop off a movie and parking in the drive lane. We wouldn't want that. That was initially why we picked the location back here, is because there is parking there. Meridian City Council September 2, 2008 Page 28 of 71 Bird: I understand. Darmody: Can I address the Albertson's Redbox briefly? De Weerd: Uh-huh. Darmody: Just in terms of the groups that are there renting movies late a night, I don't have numbers to back this up and I'm not related really to Redbox, other than to partner with them on these kiosks, but they have indicated to me that the Redbox at that Albertson's is one of the busiest Redboxes that they have in the state of Idaho. Bird: I can believe that. Darmody: Not just in the surrounding area, but it's a very busy -- which is -- to Mrs. Chrisman's comments why they put a second one there and, then, also why they would like to pursue one at a new McDonald's location, because they want to spread that demand out a little bit and provide better service for their customers. De Weerd: Well, I guess probably my kids have been some that have congregated around it and they can't just go in ones, they have to -- to group around to make a team decision on which movie they are going to rent. So, it depends on the age group. I guess, you know, your representative stated that you wanted to serve your customers and I can understand that. Your customers can be served during your hours of operation and inside -- and having been part of the discussions prior to tonight's meeting, there was a commitment not to do the 24 hour activity and so I'm a little hung up on that and I know that you inherited the testimony of the developer, but these are the kind of things during annexation that would have been put on there had a certain use been anticipated, but because of that testimony that was never requested by the neighbors, nor thought of by Council, because of the statements that were made. So, the 24 hour operation to me is -- is a big deal and when you can go to get three to five of your movies just right on the other side of the parking lot, that makes more sense and certainly I have seen -- because I have gone to the McDonald's at Main Street, because the line was too big at Ten Mile and people do idle their cars. There is -- there is some people that just don't like to stand and wait in line outside their car and that would concern me as well if I was a neighborhood. So, for me, this makes sense inside your building and so it can serve your customers during the hours that you're open. Darmody: Okay. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: I got one suggestion, too. On .your kiosk you can make those so that they could be lockable. So, if you wanted to keep it outside, then, when you're closed you close them up, too. There is folding gates, there is all kinds of things you can add to it. So, it Meridian City Council September 2, 2008 Page 29 of 71 don't detract from your inside. You get too much inside and you get into the life safety of your occupancy and how they can get out. So, it's really beyond me why anybody needs to be go getting a movie after 11:00 o'clock anyway, but -- De Weerd: Talk to our kids. Bird: My kids wouldn't. De Weerd: Okay. Bird: We didn't have it when my kids were growing up. Anyway, I would have no problem with it being outside. I do have a problem with 24 hours. But I think you could put a gate or something on that that was automatically locked up. As you close up, it gets closed right at the same time. And that way have got it outside during the day, so you're not interfering with your inside customers, but you're not open 24 hours. That's an idea. Darmody: And that would be something that I'd have to take back to Redbox. This is a really unique relationship in that it is their kiosk, but it operates at different businesses, obviously. It operates at Albertson's. I think a few Mavericks have them and, obviously, they have a partnership with McDonald's, but we don't design or we come to an agreement on the placement, so as not to inconvenience the customers that don't want to be inconvenienced by it inside, outside, those types of things. So, it's not my decision ultimately to put a gate on it, although that's not a bad idea. I don't know that they have the capacity to do that, but I could explore that with them. Bird: If I was the manager of a McDonald's store and they were going to interfere with my customers coming in and out and I'm working off of percentage profits, I wouldn't want it inside. I wouldn't want it there period. Because I'm sure they are not getting any part of that. But that's my own personal opinion. I don't -- I'm like the Mayor, I don't see why we have to have a 24 hour Redbox there at that location when we have got two of them over at Albertson's. De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Darmody: Thanks. De Weerd: Okay. Council? Rountree: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Rountree. Rountree: I move that we close the -- well, I'm going to move that we continue this public hearing and direct staff to see if there is anything as it relates to the neighborhood commercial that can restrict the hours of operation. Meridian City Council September 2, 2008 Page 30 of 71 De Weerd: Mr Rountree, would that include if restrictions were put on if it were inside or outside, if you could restrict use if it was outside? Because I think the owner is -- Rountree: Madam Mayor, my motion relates to what we can do. De Weerd: Okay. Rountree: I could make a motion to have the applicant do that as well, I suppose, but I don't know that they would necessarily abide by my motion. De Weerd: Okay. Bird: I'd second it. De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and asecond -- Rountree: And that would be to continue it until the 9th. De Weerd: Okay. So, the motion is to continue this item to the 9th for specific information from staff; is that correct? Rountree: Yes. De Weerd: Okay. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carves. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 9: Public Hearing: VAR 08-007 Request for a Variance to UDC 11-3H- 4B.2.a, which prohibits new approaches directly accessing a state highway, to allow aright-in only access to the site from SH 55/Eagle Road for Jacksons Food Store #105 by Jacksons Food Stores, Inc. - 3291 East Pine Avenue: Item 10: Public Hearing: VAC 08-003 Request to Vacate note #6, which prohibits direct lot access to Eagle Road and Pine Avenue, on the recorded plat for Porky Park Subdivision No. 1 for Jacksons Food Store #105 by Jacksons Food Stores, Inc. - 3291 East Pine Avenue: De Weerd: Okay. So, this will be continued until next week. Okay. Items 9 and 10 are a public hearing on VAR 08-007 and VAC 08-003. I will open these two public hearings with staff comment. Wafters: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the next item before you is a request by Jackson Food Stores for a variance to UDC 11-3H-46.2.a, which prohibits new approaches directly accessing a state highway other than at the half mile between