HomeMy WebLinkAbout2008 07-15Meridian Citv Council Special Workshop Meeting Julv 15, 2008
A meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:37 p.m., Tuesday, July
15, 2008, by President Charlie Rountree.
Members Present: Tammy de Weerd, David Zaremba, Keith Bird, and Charlie
Rountree.
Members Absent: Joe Borton.
Others Present: Bill Nary, Tara Green, Bob Stowe, Keith Watts, Joe Silva, Clint Dolsby,
Matt Ellsworth, Anna Canning, Scott Colaianni, Pete Friedman, and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
X David Zaremba Joe Borton
X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
Rountree: All right. We do have a quorum, so I'm going to go back to the start of the
agenda and open the workshop meeting for July 15th at 6:37. Roll call attendance,
please.
Item 2: Adoption of the Agenda:
Rountree: Next item is item to adopt the agenda.
Zaremba: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I move that we adopt the agenda, with the notation that report number 4-B
was held before we opened the meeting.
Rountree: So, the motion would be to remove that item?
Zaremba: I believe that would be correct. I'd say yes.
De Weerd: Or incorporated into the meeting minutes.
Zaremba: A recording was made of it, so that people could listen to it.
Bird: Before I'm going to second that, I would agree if you would incorporate that in.
Rountree: Okay.
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Zaremba: Yes. It was not being transcribed, but it was being recorded and available.
Rountree: It's been moved and seconded to adopt the agenda with the comment about
Item 4-B. All those in favor? Unanimous.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 3: CONSENT AGENDA
(a) Change Order No. 1 with K2 Construction for Water Division Phase
2 for $27,377.13
(b) Agreement for Remote Deposit Capture with Bank of the Cascades
for $2736.29 plus Batch Scanner for $2,870.00
(c) Change Order No. 2 with Brown Construction for the Black Cat
Trunk Sewer Phase 4 for $77,400.00
Rountree: Item 3, Consent Agenda.
Bird: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve the Consent Agenda as published and for the Mayor to sign
and the Clerk to attest on all papers.
Zaremba: I'll second that.
Rountree: It's been moved and seconded to approve the Consent Agenda. All those in
favor? It's unanimous. Approved.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 4: COMMUNITY ITEMS /PRESENTATIONS:
(a) Update on New City Hall from Petra & Update on Parking with Keith
Watts.
Rountree: Item 4. 4-A. Update on the new City Hall. Gene. And, again, I apologize to
everybody for the delay, but we needed all to be present in order for us to have an
official meeting. And I hope you threw a strike.
Bird: Uh?
Rountree: Did you throw a strike?
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July 15, 2008
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Bird: No.
Rountree: You got it across home plate, though.
Bennett: Thank you. My name is Gene Bennett, I'm with Petra, 1097 North Rosario,
Meridian, Idaho. On the report this month for Meridian City Hall, we have before you
the -- the report manual. I'll briefly go through the Executive Summary and from there
each of the members of Petra will give reports on their various areas. On the schedule,
the project will still be completed on October 15th of this year. On our LEED we are still
going to achieve silver. And, then, on the financial, the budget still remains the same
budget that we established back in December. ASIs to date, there are a total of 117
ASIs. RFIs are a total of 177. Four are still active, 173 are closed. Submittals, 245
submittals to date. All but three have been approved. At this point I would like to move
into section two, which is the schedule. Jack, our superintendent, who is supported by
two superintendents out in the field, Scott, electrical and mechanical, and Pat who is
reviewing the site. Jack will summarize where we are at schedule-wise.
Vaughn: Thank you, Gene. Mr. President, Madam Mayor, Members of the Board, my
name is Jack Vaughn, I'm the senior superintendent for Petra, Meridian City Hall
project. Let's flip to section two, our first page on section two is our master production
schedule, which we have reviewed every month and continue to update. No surprises
here, although I did notice the red line that you see down there is actually a red line that
indicates the 7/11 date that you see at the top and as I was putting the percentages
together for this, I put my percentages together for the 1st, so that may be why that red
line's a little distorted. As we have discussed previously, we are a little behind on the
third floor, but not in any critical situation. We are having some issues up there and I
can further explain that simply by looking back at what we have on say line 19 where we
have our roof system, you see that we are only 97 percent complete. It's not through
lack of effort or so forth. We have been waiting on some answers, which we received
on some ballasts over the front roof and so now we can complete with that project --
expect it will be completed out this month. The store front -- the reason we are at 95
percent there is we are on purposely holding off on the installation of those front doors,
just so we don't get them torn up. So, once again, it's not through lack of -- of effort.
We are holding certain things off just to keep them from getting damaged. Access floor,
as you well know, we have had to take out panels on the first floor to continue on with
our MEP process and we are moving those now, panels up to the first floor, so that will
actually, probably, .complete this week and get back up to a hundred percent. So,
although it looks like we are behind on our VARS, we are really not, it's just a matter of
the process that we go through during the construction process. The elevators, the
same situation. The elevators are complete, however, we are using an elevator as part
of our construction activity, so we can't really finish it, because we don't want to put the
inside panels in, but all three elevators are within a week of being completely wrapped
up and ready for state inspection. Once again, we just kind of have them on hold. As
you can see down near the bottom are -- are specialties, our MEP trim are started and
those are not -- those, actually, look to be a little bit ahead of schedule, but, in essence,
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they are just right on time. We need to get these things started now, so that we can be
complete and ready to go for our commissioning, which we anticipate starting in
September. The next page -- we have revamped this three week schedule and I have,
actually, extended it out -- I wanted to cover the entire month of July, so that you could
look at July, what we plan on proceeding and accomplishing and we have thrown some
color in there just so you can see the -- the activity level of the basement, the first floor,
second, and on up, including the penthouse mechanical room. And you can see we
flow pretty good. The dark line on July 4th is, obviously, a holiday. As it goes down the
page -- and the little numbers inside the boxes are floors -- floor levels. First floor is in
yellow and so forth. We have actually got a little bit ahead of things here. Our -- our
ceiling grid, we will be starting on third floor, actually, tomorrow hot and heavy. We are,
basically, ready to wrap up first and second floor. The basement is pretty well wrapped
up. We have actually received our first final inspection on the project in the basement
by our HVAC contractor. It was received last Friday. So, it kind of gives you an idea of
our progress. It's a process in work here. I will continue on with our next page. This
jumps to the outside site work. This schedule has been revamped once again
completely. You see some different configuration here. We have a new superintendent
on site taking over after Drew's departure. We wish him good at his new position. Pat
Child is actually -- I consider him my equal. He is a superintendent with Petra. Been
with the company a long time. Having Pat's experience on the job has really made a big
difference in the progress of the outside site work. We have got the dock poured, so
now we are getting -- the dock area is our primary entrance into the building for delivery
of materials, simply because he's got all of the front torn up and excavated and footings
poured and block going up and the roadwork along the west elevation along Meridian
Road, we anticipated about 14 days of having that signage out there and he was able to
complete that in four. We still have some barricades up out there to minimize the traffic
flow, but he's progressing well. The curbs are already demoed out and poured back last
week and all this. As you know, we were all waiting until after the July 4th weekend to
do that work and it's only been a week and it's completed. So, having Pat's experience
on the job is, in my opinion, made a big difference for us. I will be more than happy to
entertain any questions you have on the schedule. We are -- Pat on the site is looking
to be done in September, which is per the original schedule that Drew had drawn up.
He's just kind of moving a few things around. He's pushing -- some of his priorities are
a little bit more important. We do plan on having pavement on the south parking lot
somewhere around the end of this month. July. July 28th is when it's slated at curb. All
the curbs are poured now, including the one we had to leave out, so we could get in and
out. That's now poured back as of today. Sidewalks are poured. We have added some
electrical for some future decorative Christmas lights out there. We are in the process
of putting those in, at which time we will be lifting the generator in place this week, first
part of next week at the latest, depending on -- we are doing some modifications on that
as well. Standing the street light poles. At that point we will have all the heavy cranes
out of that area, we will be able to lay our paving down. So, that's, actually, going to
finish ahead of Drew's original schedule. So, we are in good shape there. The masonry
on the Heritage building, we will finish the block work tomorrow. We have got the lift up
to the roof level on one side today. The masonry on the canal started today and they
have already got it up to four foot high. So, things are progressing well. We actually got
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our first brick delivery today, so we can work on the Five Mile Creek overflow. So,
things are beginning to fall off here quite well. Very pleased with the progress of the
work.
Rountree: Any questions?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: Thank you, Jack.
Ploetz: Hello. My name is Nick Ploetz, Council President, Madam Mayor, Members of
the Council. I'm project engineer with Petra. I will be taking over all your LEED on the
project as of Adam's departure. If you turn to section three, we will take a brief overview
on the project. You're attempting 36 points, which is silver. I see no problem with
achieving that right now. Turning to the commissioning -- fund level commissioning of
the project, Heery International has brought a new agent online. He is from the
Spokane area. He is very knowledgeable, very experienced. I think we should have no
issues within that. Pressure testing on first floor, under floor plan systems, first floor
south went in at 11.9 percent. First floor north went at 8.4 percent. And the second
floor completely went in at 4.6 percent. We are way under manufacture specs and
engineering specs. I think there is a possible credit that we could look at involved with
that and, then, work with Heery on possible extra credit on that, since we will probably
not be maintaining the 95 percent construction waste on site. Indoor air quality is
ongoing. They have been maintaining there our weekly site visits, as well as I have
taken over that as well. Our house air is on at this time. We are supplying a hundred
percent outside air to the first and second floor. Next page is a brief overview on the
recycling materials. We are currently showing at 81.7 percent diversion. That's roughly
eight trash dumpsters that have gone off site. The rest has been recycled. Turn to the
next page. It will give you another brief overview of the checklist. Not much has
changed on it. The column has been added to show -- kind of represent responsibility,
who is responsible for each credit within these LEEDS. Is there any questions?
Rountree: Go ahead, Nick.
Putts: Thank you.
Rountree: Thank you.
Coughlin: Madam Mayor, Council Members, I'm Tom Coughlin, also with Petra. If you
flipped to section four for the financials. The first item is the current billing. We have --
of the 21.1 million, approximately, allocated to the project currently we have billed 17.1,
approximately 90 percent overall, which represents 90 percent on the building, about 16
percent on the plaza, which would give 81 percent overall. Sorry. The second page is
a summary of how that breaks down by the individual contractors involved in the project
and where their current status is. The third page is the summary -- your budget
summary. It remains unchanged since basically November. The change that it does
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reflect as additional work is allocated to the various contractors, the contingency is
adjusted, but the overall amount remains unchanged. We have allocated for the interior
sign package that was approved last month, the additional scope for that. The following
two pages are an overview of your contingency and how it's been allocated through the
allocations to the various contractors for the additional scope increases. Current
balance allocated -- or allocated is 331,000, approximately, and the uncommitted
portion of that is approximately 188,000. The difference being things currently being
considered. Is there any questions concerning --
Rountree: Doesn't appear to be any. Thank you, Tom.
Coughlin: Thank you.
.Bennett: In closing, the new item of business is the new parking lot where the gas
station was. You will see that the monitoring wells will be going in this week. From
there the drawing will be completed here in the next week to two weeks and will be out
to bid for that bid package as well. With that, I would stand for any general questions.
De Weerd: Mr. President?
Rountree: Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: I guess is -- yeah, Keith is over there. I can't see him.
Watts: The only thing I had to add is I did speak to Terracon today and they were able
to locate two of the existing wells that were on the property and they do think that they
are going to be able to reuse those. They did drill two borings today and install one well
and so far they are pretty optimistic that they are going to locate other existing wells and
save us some money on drilling as well.
De Weerd: Mr. President?
Rountree: Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: Keith, did you want to discuss the wall treatment?
Watts: Yes. I sent you all an a-mail earlier today. I don't know if you have had a
chance to go by and take a look at that west wall on the back of the building. There is a
-- as you were aware, there was three panels that were treated a couple weeks ago for
you to take a look at and you had asked for a sand blast sample to be done. The sand
blast sample is currently on the wall, as is a -- a textured treatment as well, that has a
tan color to it for you to take a look at. Just -- have you all had a chance to go in and
take a look at that?
De Weerd: I have.
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Zaremba: I did not have a chance to look at it live, but I did look through the pictures
that you sent in the a-mail.
Watts: Okay.
Zaremba: And I commented back to you the one that's attractive to me is the little patch
of colored texture that matches other colors on the building, as opposed to being gray
De Weerd: Mr. President?
Rountree: Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: I guess we had a group that walked over this morning, including the
architect and our construction manager, and really took a look at it esthetically, as well
as practically. If you look at the panel that the color is on, it has a smooth finish and
that's part of the contract for the -- the concrete. What it does is it does give a finished
look to it and it takes away the seams. That is the recommendation of the architect and
certainly of myself -- and I'm not a professional, so I won't profess to be, but being privy
to some of the discussion on that, if you look -- if you consider the front side of the City
Hall project, there is a great deal of concrete and the gray finish. They feel that this
would tie into some of the finishes on the plaza side and wouldn't look abnormal or out
of -- out of character. The sand blasting really does have an unfinished pocketed look
to it and it would be exposed in some cases, from what lunderstand -- and, Gene, if I
say something that is really rookie'ish, just step in and tell me. But you can see -- in
some cases you might even expose some rebar and they would have to do some
finishing on that. Am I correct?
Bennett: There could be some pockets show up.
De Weerd: Okay. So -- I saw Mr. Bird laughing, so I thought maybe I better double-
check. So, the idea was to -- to keep with the same gray tone as the panel that the
color is on. However, where the recommendation would be to use the same texture
that's in that color, but with the gray, would be on the loading dock wall. That is going to
be very large and exposed and -- is Will around?
Rountree: No.
De Weerd: He did talk -- oh, yeah, he's at the school district.
Rountree: School board.
De Weerd: He did talk to the architect and the construction manager again on that and
there was a recommendation that they would have a section of brick, then, use the
finish with the texture on it. If you use the texture on the foundation, it's an additional
20,000 dollars, so -- maybe that's also what helped sell me on the -- the part that's
already covered in the contract, because there is no additional cost. So, that's some of
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the discussion that we had as a group. They do need to have a decision, so that we
can get moving on it while the contractor is on the site, so that they can continue their
project. Any corrections, Keith or Gene?
Rountree: So, I don't disagree with the recommendation, do they need a color choice
or --
De Weerd: No. We are hoping if the recommendation was followed, you wouldn't have
a color, you would have the gray tone.
Rountree: The gray tone. Unless Jack needs more specifics.
Vaughn: If I could clarify the recommendation. The recommendation on the foundation
of the building itself is to just go with the gray plastering, no cost -- no additional cost on
the project. However, because that wall at the -- at the dock does protrude up so high,
the recommendation for the. architect just to take the top three feet or so and put a red
band in that to match the color of the brick that's on the building, that would help break
that wall up a little bit and on that area we do recommend that we use the elastomeric
coating. A red kind of rail on the top three feet, just to kind of blend in with the rest of
the building, and, then, the bottom would be a gray elastomeric, but only in that dock
area, just because it's such as protruding thing outside of the building.
De Weerd: Protruding thing. I am glad you use very technical terms. I avoided those.
Rountree: An architectural term, I think.
Watts: I would also like to clarify that the coating that she was talking about -- that the
Mayor is talking about, is the furthest one to the left, which is the one -- the panel on the
south.
Vaughn: You don't have a cost involved in the -- just the elastomeric finish --
Watts: North. Correct.
Vaughn: But it's nowhere near 20,000, because that included all the buildings. We can
get that for you if that's the direction you want to head.
De Weerd: Mr. President?
Rountree: Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: On the second page of the pictures you have where Tom and I don't
remember the other guy's name, they are kind of showing you the angle of the
landscaping or the ground level. It will angle from the top where his right hand is to his
left at the -- where the foundation meets the dirt and so that's the angle of the
landscaping it would come -- if you look at the panel or the picture underneath that,
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about the top of the -- or a little bit above the -- or below the top of the color would be
the ground line. That's how much concrete would be exposed and that would pretty
easily be covered by the landscaping. So, it just seems that to justify additional cost,
there is not going to be too much of it exposed and that's another reason we came with
our recommendation.
Rountree: Any recommendations for the loading dock?
De Weerd: I would go with what's proposed.
Rountree: What's proposed. Concurrence?
Bird: Yes.
Zaremba: The only thing I would question is whether -- appreciate the band of the brick
that matches the building at the top. I wonder if that's a tall enough structure that
somewhere in the middle there might be another two or three bands. Or is that even
possible in a wall like that?
Bird: You can put it anywhere, that coating.
Zaremba: I'm just wondering if it might look funny with asingle -- with only that single
line across there and a second line might make it look better.
Bird: Well, David, as I think about it, to break it up -- if you break it up -- I don't think it's
going to look as attractive if you break it in the middle.
Bennett: It's an eight foot wall and what the architect was trying to achieve was a
parapet type look, a cap, on top of a concrete wall. That's what he was trying to achieve
with that suggestion of just the single band.
Rountree: That would be my preference.
Bird: 'It would be mine. I don't want a stripe.
Rountree: So, let's go that way. Heads shaking in the right direction? Okay. All right.
Did you get that, Keith?
Watts: Yeah. Thank you.
Rountree: But, Gene, you will -- or, Jack, you will get us a price on that -- on that band?
Coughlin: Absolutely.
Watts: And the elastomeric for the -- the trash enclosure wall.
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Bird: Yeah.
Rountree: Yes.
Bird: We know there is no price on that.
Watts: Yeah.
Rountree: Very good. Thank you. Next item is Item 4-C.
Watts: Excuse me, Council President, Madam Mayor, I have one City Hall question or
issue to bring up. I have -- we have been trying to evaluate whether or not to do -- to
contract out for janitorial services or hire staff to take care of janitorial throughout the
city and just wanted to get direction from Council as to which direction you would want
to move. I'm not sure -- I believe something was brought up during the budget hearing
as well and I don't know if any direction was given.
De Weerd: Mr. President?
Rountree: Madam Mayor
De Weerd: We did have it as a part of -- I think our city attorney's presentation. We
didn't have discussion on it afterwards. The price that's included in the budget will not
change. In fact, the option by not contracting out is less. You don't have to have it on
tonight if you don't need to. We will need to take action -- maybe we can provide that
detail to you again over this coming weeks and you can have it as the discussion item
next week. Is that --
Watts: Yes. If Council is interested in entertaining that, we will move forward with that.
Bird: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Keith, what -- that price that we had for contracted out, how accurate was that or
was that just an estimate thrown in or --
Watts: That was an estimate and after talking to a couple of contractors, I believe that's
-- that's even on the low side and that is using our own materials as well, just as they
have done so far. So, I have also talked to two supplier manufacturers and they have
both -- and they are suppliers to the industry, but they also pointed out that in their
opinion the best cleaned buildings and the best maintained buildings have been
buildings where they had staff on site. That was -- when I -- when I was asking the
suppliers of the materials what their experience has been, they have told me that they
have seen cleaner buildings when staff has been part of the organization, rather than
subcontracting out. Either direction we had would probably be --
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Bird: I'd like to see you check with some of the larger developers and some of the other
people that's got large buildings and see which way they go.
Watts: We can do that as well. Sure.
Bird: Because, I'll guarantee you, the private go the cheapest and they make them look
the best.
Watts: That has been contradictory to what -- the conversations I have had. One of the
things we are also moving forward to is having a green program as well as far as our
janitorial goes. But we will move forward and try to get some more data, back that up ,
and --
Bird: Get us some more data.
Watts: -- I will come back either next week or in three weeks, whatever is --
Rountree: Any further comments? I concur that we need to solidify some of those bids
and get some more information before we take action on that as a budget item.
Watts: Okay. Thank you, Mr. President.
Zaremba: That discussion brings up the question whether we get LEEDs points if the
cleaning crew uses environmental friendly materials.
De Weerd: Yes.
Watts: Yes. That's part of --
Zaremba: I was trying to find that on the list and I couldn't find it. Also, Mr. President?
Rountree: Dave.
Zaremba: There may be one other hanging question. I got another a-mail from Keith
Watts today asking about the partitions.
Watts: Yes. I think we have direction on that.
Zaremba: You got an answer back --
Watts: Yeah.
Zaremba: Okay.
Rountree: Robert.
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Simmons: I had some conversation with finance on the -- one of the issues with trying
to get an estimate for the building is people don't want to give a good firm estimate until
they can get in and see what type of services they are cleaning, so any estimate that
you get from the company is going to be extremely rough until they physically can see
what services there are in the building, which could be as late as, you know -- I don't
know when they are going to have everything completed, but -- so, it will be another
month or two before you can get real hard estimates from the companies. Just so you
know that for budgetary purposes.
Watts: Yeah. We will -- we will have to go to existing companies, businesses that have
large buildings and get numbers from them and we will be able to use that date as well.
Rountree: Very good. Thank you.
Simmons: Thank you.
Rountree: Anything else?
Watts: No. That's it. Thank you.
(c) Discussion of Main Street Program
Rountree: All right. Moving on. 4-C. Discussion on the Main Street program. David.
Zaremba: Thank you, Mr. President. And, actually, I just wanted about two minutes to
really ask the question -- the flier that was handed out at the AARC conference -- AIC
conference has a statement in it that says every dollar a community uses to support its
local main street program leverages an average of $25.75 in new investment, making
the Main Street program one of the most successful economic development strategies
in America. That certainly caught my attention and having heard this program
mentioned before, I wanted to ask Council and Mayor whether we wanted to ask either
staff or MDC to spend any time exploring this and report back to us.
De Weerd: Mr. President?
Rountree: Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: Has MDC already explored what the Main Street program is all about? Had
a discussion already?
Rountree: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Thank you, Mr. President, Madam Mayor, and Council Member Zaremba. I did
receive the flier on the updated Main Street program last week. We are currently
reviewing it. It's something that the Meridian Development Corporation looked at in the
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past. I believe it's a program that may become more appropriate as we see
reinvestment from the local merchants. That's really, I believe, what the program is
designed towards. We are very interested in leveraging every private dollar that we can
in the urban renewal agency and so with your permission the Development Corporation
will look at it from our side and we will find the appropriate departments within the city to
work with if -- if you so choose to do that.
Zaremba: That would be great.
Wardle: Thank you.
Rountree: And you are going to be looking at this again in terms of its applicability?
Wardle: We are currently -- as you may know, tomorrow morning the Development
Corporation has its fiscal year 2009 budget hearing -- not hearing, tentative budget and
so one of the things that we are working on -- we are working potentially to look at some
historical preservation slash facade improvement programs. We are looking at both the
legal status of the funding mechanisms for that. In addition, we are currently working
through a capital budget where we have some un-programmed dollars for fiscal year
2009. In the past it's been a preference of the board to find projects to do that can show
some immediate impact and one of the areas that we are looking at is Idaho, Main
Street, along with all the projects that are going on on Broadway. I would suspect that
the board of directors will allocate enough money to do both sides of the block, which
could, then, potentially leverage some of these grand dollars as well. And so we will
have enough in terms of matching funds, I believe, to qualify for the programs.
Rountree: Very good.
De Weerd: Mr. President?
Rountree: Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: Does -- Anna, are you familiar with the Main Street program? Or Pete?
Canning: Madam Mayor, I am not. I have heard it referenced throughout the years.
Don't know about it. It's generally referenced in favorable light -- and I feel somebody
kicking my chair, so I think Pete is --
Friedman: Council President, Madam Mayor, Council Members, it's been a number of
years since I have been exposed to it, but I have worked for an organization where we
were involved in a Main Street program. Briefly, that program was sort of a combination
of achieving some physical improvements, as well as getting involved in marketing and
programs and activities and so forth and entailed hiring a Main Street coordinator as a
separate entity. I think there was an organization -- shell or umbrella organization
formed. Now, it may have -- probably has evolved over the years, but it did generate
quite a bit of excitement and involvement with the local merchants and at least in the
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community that I was involved with it -- and as Council Member Zaremba has said, it
has been around for a number of years. It's been a very successful program and the
fact that it's still in existence I think is a testimony to its success. So, if it's something
that, you know, you choose that you want to explore further, we would be happy to do
that.
De Weerd: Pete, in -- I'm sorry. Follow-up.
Rountree: Go right ahead.
De Weerd: I get used to running the meetings I forget I'm supposed to ask permission
to talk.
Rountree: That's a good thing.
De Weerd: Pete, I guess my question is do some communities use this kind as a
downtown business association as well? Is that some of the rules it might play?
Friedman: Council President, Madam Mayor, I don't know directly if that's what it does,
but it certainly brings them together. As one community I was involved in, they actually
formed a downtown business improvement association, so it was kind of like an LID, but
it didn't involve the property owners, it actually allowed the business owners to
participate in physical improvements and so forth. But, you know, I'd have to do some
follow-up research. It's been quite a few years and I'm not sure where the program has
gone in those days.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Rountree: Does that start answering your question, Mr. Zaremba?
Zaremba: I believe does it.
Rountree: Okay. Very good. Thank you, Shaun. If you'd look into that and let us
know. Very good.
(d) Guidance to Planning Director on Time Extensions
Rountree: Next item. 4-D. Anna.
Canning: Council President, Madam Mayor, Councilmen, we have been saving up a
number of time extensions and kind of dreaming up questions for you, so that's what we
are going to go through. I have about six slides. Not too much. But there is kind of a
lot of questions on each. As we are processing these, there -- please remember there
are director decisions and, then, there is the Council decisions on these time
extensions. So, what I'm looking for is what you want me to do or to consider on my
decision and, then, what you want in the staff report for your decision. And with regard
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to that, there are a number of options for each one. So, as I go through the following
slides think about these things. I could just deny these time extensions and, then, they
can appeal them up to you or ask for City Council review. I can add or modify
conditions. I can hold approval contingent on conditions. For example, you know, if you
install the water pipe, we will approve the time extension. Something like that. We
have a fair amount of latitude on these time extensions. I cannot give -- I can withhold
the full 18 month extension and just a six month extension and -- or if there is other
options that you think of as we go through these, please, just let me know and, then, we
will incorporate those into the reports.
Rountree: Anna, what latitude do you have at this point?
Canning: On time extensions?
Rountree: Yes.
Canning: They are completely discretionary and the code specifically says we can add
new provisions and conditions.
Rountree: And that's -- and that's at the discretion of the director?
Canning: Uh-huh. And the Council.
Rountree: And Council.
Canning: The one thing I can't do is I can't make them -- if there is not a rezone
associated with it or if there is not already a DA in place, I can't make them do a DA
without a rezone or an annexation request. So, that's the one limitation we could think
of. These are plats, so they need to be kind of typical plat requirements, but as you see
as we go through, we could flush that out more. I think as I get further into it, I think you
will -- you will see some of these things, but -- okay. So, let's get started. So, the first
set of them are things that I can ask based on changes in the UDC and these are really
clearly allowable. The big changes that as staff we felt we wanted some guidance from
you on are the open space increase from five percent to ten percent. So, do you want
us to go get that additional five percent? It probably is going to mean for some of them
losing a lot, to be frank. A lot of them already had around seven percent or ten percent
and they may not be affected. The multi-family standards are drastically different from
pre-UDC. I don't think we have any apartment buildings out there under the old one, but
there may be one. But we have typically been asking them to meet those new
standards. One recent change that you probably aren't aware of, really, yet, on the
MEW development with private streets, we asked for private streets here and here,
because there was no ACHD street standards that was suitable in that instance. It's not
an alley, because these properties actually have to be addressed off of it, but ACRD
recently changed their policies and they do have a public street standard that is nearly
identical to our private streets in these situations. So, we could have them install public
streets, rather than private streets, if that's the preference of Council, or just give them
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the option of public streets versus private streets. And, then, most recently we just
adopted the access to collector and arterial streets, so if it's commercial project typically
those -- a lot of them may still have access to a collector where we could possibly close
that down now or to an arterial. And there may be a few out there that were previously
approved as planned developments and so I guess I'd like a quick run down of these as
we go through on which ones you kind of want me to include, speak out. General nods
of heads. Do you want to do it that way, sirs?
Zaremba: Mr. President?
Rountree: David.
Zaremba: I may be not remembering this correctly, but it seemed to me along with
increasing the open space requirement from five to ten percent, we also added that
landscaping between the road bed and a detached sidewalk would count as that open
space. So, I'm -- if I'm remembering that correctly, requiring time extensions to include
this change probably wouldn't be that painful, would it?
Canning: President Rountree, Council Member Zaremba -- wow, I'm going to have a
hard time with that tonight. Most of the UDC plats, that -- that provision of the UDC has
not changed. Most of the plats that came in under the UDC came in around seven
percent. So, we may be asking an additional three percent. If they were pre-UDC,
then, they may be able to go back and count. That's what you were talking about. A lot
of them are going to be UDC plats. So, they won't be able to take advantage of that
one. But it will require recalculating, based on today's standards, so -- there is --
thumbs up or thumbs down on --
Rountree: I guess, Anna, my position -- and I think what we have said most recently on
some of these, is that they are that old that, then, they should be brought up and meet
all the standards of the UDC and if they are -- at the approval of the director and if that's
onerous, then, they can appeal that to the Council and we can make the -- we can make
the overriding decision. But I don't know that I necessarily want to have you have to flip
a coin on all of these things and say, well, this one I might go with on and that one I
might go that way on. Or your staff.
Canning: Okay. That's fine.
Rountree: And that's my position. I don't know about everybody else.
Zaremba: Mr. President. I was going to say almost that exact thing. I would add
somehow checking to make sure if there has been changes in fire codes or other things
as well, that they should be upgraded and as President Rountree said, happy to have
you make that decision. If they feel like appealing it, then, we would discuss it.
Bird: Mr. President?
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Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Anna, 99 percent of our time extensions is plats and subdivision stuff, they are not
buildings and stuff like that, am I not right?
Canning: Correct, sir. It will be plats and conditional use permits.
Bird: And a lot of times time extension is because the market's fell through the floor or
something has come up and they haven't been able to proceed with it. So, while I agree
with what Councilman Rountree says, I don't know if it's practical to -- unless they
changed the PP or something like that, Idon't -- I mean they are just coming in asking
for a time extension and I'm sure there is a reason that they didn't go ahead with it and it
was probably a market reason. So, in my opinion, it's very touchy. Like you say, most
of the ones we get are seven percent open space. The three percent isn't going to
make or break it for me. We don't have to worry about fire code or anything. We --
before we approved it, I hope we had fire flow in there anyway and there are buildings --
any buildings or don't have any buildings. They are not asking a time extension on that.
So, all the other life safety codes aren't affected. So, unless they -- unless they come in
and want a major change in the preliminary plat or the zoning or something like that, I --
Ihave ahard time jacking around too much.
Canning: President Rountree?
Rountree: Anna.
Canning: Council Member Bird, you can get time extensions on conditional use permits
also, so that would be the one where they may have a building.
Bird: And --
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Anna -- and that's the one I was talking about. If they -- you know, if they do
something on a CUP or something like that, but an actual just a -- just a plat, you have a
hard time -- I have a hard time doing -- now, for the building or something, a CUP or
something, yeah, then, they -- they have to come up to current codes.
De Weerd: Mr. President?
Rountree: Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: I guess it goes back to Councilman Rountree's first statement that you want
consistency and, you know, it's when you say, well, in this case it should apply and in
that case it shouldn't that staff has discomfort and, then, there is more chance for
confusion. So, it's hard to apply rules on a case-by-case situation. I guess -- I think
what staff is needing is clear direction and they will make the determination. If the
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people don't think it's inappropriate, they can appeal it up to City Council and let you
make those terminations. And so, you know, Anna, one of the things that in the MEW
development, with the -- the different classifications by ACHD -- I do know we have had
discussions about the turning radius of both our garbage trucks and our fire engines out
of those -- those narrow streets. Is that in our current UDC or can that be a part of any
considered changes, having those -- those aprons or those turn aprons -- I don't know
what they are called, but --
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council -- you did it wrong. President
Rountree, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, we worked on our code to make
those changes to the alleys and we increased the width and, then, we increased the
turning radius into it. So, we accommodated that and, then, Lori den Hartog working for
ACHD, worked on both the alleys and, then, also these minor public type -- minor public
streets, the one that could replace the MEW streets that we have and we were fortunate
in that they used ours as a kind of template, so they are very, very similar. So, we can
mix and match pretty comfortably with that, but we did address those concems and the
fire department come forward with the private street ones as well.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Canning: So -- and that does bring up the question -- we couldn't offer public streets
before, so would you like us to at least offer to those applicants that they can make
those public streets now if they choose, but just let them choose?
Rountree: That would be my preference.
Canning: Okay.
Bird: I will second that.
Zaremba: And I would chime in that as well. The private streets make me nervous in
that 20 years from now some homeowners association or business associations are
going to discover that they have an unplanned huge expense for something and the
more of them we can avoid, I -- if they will take the public option and have it conform to
the public streets, ACHD rules, I sure would encourage that.
Canning: Okay. So, offer and encourage, but don't mandate public streets. Is that
what I'm hearing?
Zaremba: Well, I think we have tried -- Mr. President. I think we tried mandating it
before and we keep getting pushed back and exception applications and if they already
went for a private street, I don't know how much leverage we have to move it to a public,
but I -- I would be in favor of a mandate, but I'm not sure that we can make it work.
Canning: Okay.. I think we are ready to move onto the next set. The next set would be
design concerns. So, the option here -- well, we have several different situations. We
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have an instance where there is no DA and/or no elevations tied to a project and that
could be a residential project or a nonresidential project. It may just be that we don't
have a concept plan for a nonresidential project, but we actually do have a DA or it
could be a project that's not subject to design review standards. In this -- this is an area
that has really come way more to the forefront in the last couple of years than it was a
few years back. Like I said before, I can't make them come get a DA. I guess I could
hold it until -- well, I can't make them come get a DA. So, the question is do you want
me to just deny them if they don't have a DA and elevations or -- that's really kind of the
only option I have on that, because I can't require it. If there is a DA, I can ask them to
do a modification and hold it until they modify it to include elevations or a concept plan.
The other option we could do, if there is a DA is to ask that it be modified to include that
it be subject to design review standards.
Zaremba: Mr. President?
Rountree: David.
Zaremba: It's a question that I probably should know the answer to already, but in all
cases when they come up to their expiration time, if it were not extended or there were
no provision to extend it or the extension was denied, what do they do next? Start with
a new application for a plat and any CUPs they need?
Canning: Yes, sir.
Zaremba: So, from their standpoint it would be probably cheaper and quicker to accept
any requirements you put on the time extension than it would be to start over.
Canning: Generally, yes. There is one exception I'll get to where the answer is no, but
we will -- generally, yes. Plus no public -- no extensive public hearing.
Zaremba: On the specific question of design concerns, I might lean towards your
suggestion of denying it. Although there was a time, even anticipating the new UDC
being developed, that we required a lot of DAs that had the design element in them and
I've lost track of how much time ago that was and how long ago those should have
expired, but haven't we -- there shouldn't be that many that don't have something in it.
Canning: President Rountree, Council Member Zaremba, there -- the UDC was
adopted about three years ago. So, what we might see coming up fairly soon is ones
that got a director's extension and now we are asking for a Council extension. But all
the others should have -- well, we may start seeing --
Zaremba: Should have either been built or totally expired by now.
Canning: Yes.
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Rountree: I guess that being the case, you're asking for directions so you can just
explain to the applicant what they are going to have to do?
Canning: Well, I'm asking for direction on if there is no DA and there is elevations, do
you want me to approve or deny the time extension, if it's just my decision?
Rountree: This is a first time extension?
Canning: Right.
Rountree: Any thoughts?
Bird: Yeah. I have got thoughts, but I better keep them to myself.
Canning: And, President Rountree, Council Member Bird, they can always appeal my
decision. Now, it's not inconsequential to ask for City Council review of my decision, it
is another public hearing, it is a fee, it is an application. But it's not the end of the road if
deny it. They always have recourse with you all.
Bird: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: My one thought, Anna, on this is that we evidently approved the project originally
without a DA or the stuff and it's been a long time since we have approved it even
before the UDC without at least elevations. So, if we approved the project, I guess,
without that stuff, then, I have a hard time, if they do everything else, asking for a time
extension, of not letting them have it. Of course, I have got a different thought on
design review than anybody else sitting up here, so I just -- I just feel that if we pass the
project without that requirement, then, why shouldn't we give them a time extension.
And there is a lot of them before UDC that we required a development agreement and
elevations. So, that's my thoughts, Anna. And I think, you know -- and Ithink -- I don't
want you having to jump around and do all this kind to stuff, I want to make it like the
Mayor said, let's get it consistent and deal -- that's my consistency on that.
De Weerd: Mr. President?
Rountree: Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: Anna, what is -- what is the time frame for expiration? Is it 18 months?
Canning: It's 18 months for a conditional use. It's -- and I always have to look this up,
so if I misquote incorrectly, don't think that I do this on a regular basis, because I always
look it up. Ithink it's two years for a preliminary plat, 18 months for a successive final
plat and, then, 18 months for conditional uses. And if it's a Conditional Use Permit and
a plat, it's 18 months.
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De Weerd: Thank you. I guess just to follow up, one of the reasons we started asking
for the elevations and that sort of thing is because of lessons learned and I don't know if
those lessons learned go back more than 18 months from this -- from 18 months ago.
But there is a reason we started tying elevations to either development agreements or
to the plat, because of some of the stuff we started getting that were inconsistent with
what was communicated to us during the public hearing, as well as to anyone who
would have come testify on the project. So, 1 guess if we don't have elevations and 18
months ago -- I don't know. We did ask staff to go and start giving a better definition of
the expectations and that sort of thing for a reason and, again, that's the reason why we
are tying elevations to developments now. I can argue with myself on this, you know. I
don't know. I think we are all struggling with the same thing..
Rountree: Madam Mayor, on the lessons learned in terms of this gives us an
opportunity to remedy some of the situations that we have learned from, if we were to
get another plat similar to the one specific one that occurred on Cherry Lane that now
needed a time extension, we probably could impart the wisdom we learned on a
previous subdivision on anything that could come up. So, I think it's an opportunity to
impose, if you will, or get consistency with the direction .we are going as far as design
and the direction we are going as far as conditional uses and concept plans and
conditions of what kinds of activities can be adjacent to those transition zones or
neighborhood activities between commercial and neighborhood areas. So, I'm not
going to be able to give you a good call on that tonight, but Iwould -- I would like some
side boards established -- that we establish those side boards that you can either
thumbs up or thumbs down if the applicant's willing to meet those side boards, they can
move forward and if they are not, then, again, they can bring it to Council and we can
work through it with them. But I'm inclined to move towards utilization of the new design
guidelines. I'm inclined to take a hard look at commercial activities where there is no
concept plan that are adjacent to neighborhoods and make sure that we get some of
those uses that are allowed in commercial areas not to occur next to somebody's
bedroom, if there are some of those out there. But I'd like some more time to think
about it and maybe if we had a session flushing these out, just specific to those areas.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the -- President Rountree --
Rountree: That's okay.
Canning: -- Members of the Council, perhaps what I will do is I don't think that any of
our current time extension applications that we are holding have this situation, so we
can hold onto ones that do qualify under this one until we have the design guidelines
before you or are closer to being complete and perhaps -- perhaps we won't even have
to address this issue.
Rountree: So, you're giving us this headache before we even have to have it?
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Canning: I'm trying to consider everything that's going to come up, so I can only ask
you once.
Rountree: I appreciate that. Thank you.
Canning: So, I will hold this until -- I will just kind of put these on hold and see how
many we get, see what kind of guidance I need on these.
Zaremba: Mr. President?
Canning: The other ones I don't think are difficult. Okay.
Rountree: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Just for my knowledge, you made it clear that you can't require a DA if they
don't already have one, but if you were to deny it, could the Council require a DA where
they don't already have one?
Canning: No. And I think on these we are particularly stymied, because the annexation
may have already gone through or probably already have gone through, so there is
already an annexation. So, if -- if there is not a DA in place, probably even the Council
doesn't have the opportunity to do that.
Zaremba: Thank you.
Canning: And my attorney watch dog will tell me if I'm being an incorrect junior attorney
over here, but Ithink -- I think I was correct in that one, so --
Nary: You were correct.
Canning: Okay.
Nary: t don't think we could by -- as a discretionary act require something that statute
dictates when it can be imposed and they are not at that point asking to be annexed or
to rezone, they are just asking to extend the time to complete their project. So, I don't
think we can do that.
Canning: Ithink our best option is just adoption of design guidelines is really what it
boils down to, so -- okay. These are some infrastructure ones. There is one particular
case where we have a developer asking for a time extension where there is a reverse
reimbursement agreement where we, as the city, have already paid the other developer
the reimbursement agreement and we have not yet received the money, so -- did that
make sense? I'm not sure if I -- okay. So, you all understood that. Okay. It's not a
great situation by any stretch of imagination. Their timing for their need to pay that is
signature of the final plat. So, I just kind of casually mentioned this to -- to the
developer as he was in the door one day and he said, fine, just deny me. I mean he's
Meridian City Council Special Meeting/Workshop
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not going to pay 177,000 dollars in reimbursement fees to get the final plat extension.
So, it's a significant chunk of money and it probably is just going to move them towards
giving up that particular plat. So, it's -- that's a hard decision in some ways, because it's
-- do we -- do we make them start over again? The other one is just the Public Works,
similar to planning, they can go through and impose their new changes and conditions,
so there might be a condition that says pick up sewer from your west property line,
because that's where we thought it was coming from, but now it's coming from the south
property line. And we can just make those changes as necessary. The other question
that could come up is where there is a property waiting for sewer and there is one
property in between and that property comes in for the time extension, do you want to
consider -- say we will grant the time extension if you get -- put the sewer in, you know,
even if you're not going to do all the rest of it, get the sewer in, so that this other
property can move forward with development. Or get the water in. Or get both. And
suspect we will have a couple of those coming up.
Bird: I feel you're right.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I guess my comments on the first starred point up there is
that that's something that the Council is going to have to deal with and I don't know that
we can give guidance that's going to be one size fits all. If we have got more than one
of those we will have to deal with them individually.
Canning: So, staff will deny it and inform them they can appeal it to Council if they'd
like.
Rountree: Either that or explain to them that you don't have discretion on that and it has
to go to Council. That would be my preference. Some previous Council made that
mistake. I guess we will have to deal with it.
De Weerd: What a great pass on that.
Bird: Find out what year it was approved.
Rountree: Yeah. Yeah. Probably about '96.
Bird: It was '97.
Rountree: '97. As far as the other two go, I think that change of conditions would only
benefit .the subdivision or development that's going to be extended. So, I think that
would be something that they would -- we would want to have them do and the impact
on adjoining properties, I think it would be a good idea as a condition of the extension to
complete the infrastructure.
Canning: Okay.
Zaremba: Mr. President?
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Rountree: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Are we still making new reverse reimbursement agreements?
Rountree: I hope not.
Canning: I don't believe Public Works is. No. I'm getting a shake of the head from Mr.
Dolsby here. Okay. And, then, the last category 1 have entitled general uneasiness.
Rountree: Hold on for a minute, Anna. We have a scout troop that's debating on
whether they want to crash our meeting. So, guys come on in and find a seat upfront.
De Weerd: It's never an interruption when you enter the room. Welcome. Good luck
on your citizen badge.
Rountree: And Deputy Chief Silva is going to sneak in as well, so -- thank you, Anna. If
you would go ahead.
Canning: No problem. Some projects similar to Silver Oaks, which was coming before
you, but a project where all I can say was this is a subject of much debate and I knew
that there was probably room for improvement in what was proposed the first time and I
think that Milt did step up to the plate and drastically improve that project. So, that's the
kind of project I'm talking about here where maybe it didn't match what I perceived to be
our -- your current quality of development, your current standards. Not anything
quantifiable necessarily, but just a perception on my part. The other ones that I have a
little bit of problem with are those that lack any progress in the site development at all
and where, in fact, they have stated they are just keeping it alive and they have actually
come in and scheduled pre-applications to resubmit on a different project. So, to me
those -- I'm not sure that -- why we need to keep it alive if they aren't interested in
keeping it alive, really. I guess I look for your guidance on that.
Rountree: Anna, I will just keep going here. 1 think the first two are taken care of by the
first slide or the second slide --
Canning: Okay.
Rountree: -- where we talked about design guides and that sort of thing. As far as
subject to much debate; that was the original application and if the new guidelines take
care of some of those issues that we had, then, we are probably there anyway.
Canning: Okay.
Rountree: And to the third bullet up there, it seems to me if they scheduled apre-
application re-submittal on a piece of property, why are they or why are we going to the
trouble to keep something alive if they are going to submit a change to. It doesn't make
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any sense. I mean they are going to have to have another hearing and re-plat it
anyway.
Canning: So, would the direction be if they -- if we know they are planning something
else, they probably just won't start -- they will stop talking to us until they get their time
extension is what will happen, but if we know they have scheduled something else,
should we just deny it and have them bring it up to you all?
Rountree: That's what I would do.
Canning: Okay.
Rountree: So, I -- why spend your time working on a project you know there is an
application in the works to change? Now, if you don't know that, which is going to be
very few cases, then, you won't have that information to work on.
De Weerd: A lot of hypothetical situations here.
Canning: No.
Rountree: Some of them are real. Any other comments?
Canning: All right. I think that's it. Unless you had others that I didn't come up with in
my mostly non-hypothetical questions.
Rountree: I guess I would ask you to summarize what you think you heard tonight and
get it back to us.
Canning: Okay.
Rountree: And we can either add to it, delete, or take some kind of a formal action in
adopting that guidance to you.
Canning: Would you like that as a deportment report in -- I won't be here next week, but
in two weeks?
Rountree: I think either an a-mail or a department memo to us would be sufficient.
Canning: Okay. Thank you sirs and madam.
Item 5: DEPARTMENT REPORTS
(a) Update on Split Corridor Phase 2 Design
Rountree: Thank you. Next item on the agenda is Department Reports. Matt, you're
going to talk to us about items A, B, C, D and E and with some help from ACHD, I
assume?
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Ellsworth: Mr. President, that's correct.
Rountree: Okay.
Ellsworth: Sorry to hit you all at once with these, but I figured while I had your ear I
might as well roll it all out for you, so --
Rountree: Now, you notice in the column on the agenda there is no time, but time is of
great importance this evening, since we started late.
Ellsworth: Noted. Thank you, Mr. President. The first item that I was going to get in
front of you this evening is an update on the split corridor design phase two. Now, you
guys received a brief update about this -- this project at the joint meeting with ACRD on
July the 7th. In order to allow you guys an additional opportunity to provide staff
feedback as I move forward working with ACHD on projecting for this project and also to
relay to you some of the thoughts conveyed by the Transportation Task Force when I
got this in front of them. That's the reason why I brought this to you this evening, so --
De Weerd: Matt, do you want to pull that microphone a little closer.
Bird: I can't hear you, Matt.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Ellsworth: Okay. Is this working a little better?
Rountree: Much better.
Ellsworth: So, what is the project going to entail? As you guys will recall, it --
component number one we construct the cross-over, which will start at roughly King
Street. And to orient you, toward the left of the screen up on the overhead there is
Franklin Boulevard. The top of the screen is Meridian Road. South of the screen here
is Main Street. The cross-over again at roughly King Street, continue north to the
railroad tracks and that's to complete cross-over for the partial couplet. The next
element of this -- switching gears now, we are looking at -- at Fairview Avenue, Meridian
Road, Main Street over here. We will reconstruct the intersection of Meridian and
Fairview and some of the specifications of those I can go into greater detail if you'd like.
I assume ACHD hit on that. But, essentially, it will widen that intersection and moving
over further to the east here, the Main Street and Fairview intersection, the free right
that currently exists on the other side of the street from Albertson's here is designed to
be removed. The other change that will occur, based on the preliminary design up here
is removal of your westbound left turn into the Albertson's plaza. Instead, folks coming
from the west who wish to access the plaza will make a left turn here at the Meridian-
Fairview intersection and, then, access further up here to the north. So, that said, when
I went to the Transportation Task Force several weeks back, there were two roadway
Meridian City Council Special Meeting/Workshop
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elements in particular that they -- that they suggested I touch base with Council on to
see whether or not it's something that the City of Meridian wishes to pursue with ACHD.
The first one of those was medians and the opportunity in the glance where medians
would be worth requesting a further analysis of would be further south, of course, of
Fairview Avenue. But working your way further south back down toward the cross-over,
it appears that there may be an opportunity for medians. The treatments within those
medians would -- would probably require an additional conversation about funding, if
landscaping is going to be a piece of that puzzle and installation of the trees
themselves, if that's the direction that might be desired. But in any event, that was
suggestion number one that Task Force members present at that meeting suggested
we get in front of you guys. ,Suggestion number two that they felt might be worth
considering for further analysis is taking a look at wider -- wider pedestrian areas, wider
sidewalks, wider separation in areas where sidewalks will be -- will be present. Now,
one of the things that ACRD is looking to do with this corridor is it's a constrained
corridor, they are looking to -- to the extent possible to avoid taking full properties and
impacting structures. So, especially if you continue north on Meridian Road toward
Fairview Avenue, it's a more constrained right of way width than a typical five lane
roadway and any additional increases to the sidewalk width and some of these
pedestrian areas would, of course, require adding onto the right of way impacts to
adjacent property owners. But as I said in the intro, to recap I wanted to gauge your
initial response, so that I know what to keep an eye on as we move forward in
discussion with ACHD and to request our feedback on the two suggested roadway
elements from the Transportation Task Force. So, with that I would stand for any
questions.
De Weerd: Mr. President?
Rountree: Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: I guess at our joint meeting this was presented and as -- I think we have
had discussion on closing off that -- that North Main entrance into the Cherry Lane
Plaza and that certainly, I believe from Council discussion, is a preference, which
should help that flow. I guess my question is on the vacated right turn lane that's -- that
abuts our flag pole pocket park, if that's what you call it, area, what happens with that?
What happens with that lane? Is it going to be, then, absorbed into the landscape area
we currently maintain? What is the plan there?
Ellsworth: Mr. President, Madam Mayor, I haven't heard any tangible plans for the use
of that right of way just yet. I think there is several possible options. I'm not sure if MDC
had anything in particular in mind, but there -- it's additional space and I suppose that
would be an additional conversation as to what Council might prefer to see happen and
that's another element of the discussion that I can, then, bring back to ACHD as
involvement in their project team continues.
De Weerd: It's worth discussing.
Meridian City Council Special Meeting/Workshop
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Zaremba: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I'm concerned by the phrase constrained corridor right of way on Meridian.
As that becomes a more major arterial and as we try and shift the through traffic off of
Main Street onto Meridian, that's going to need standard full lane widths. It's going to
need some extra treatment, sidewalks certainly, which it doesn't currently have. It
would probably make more sense to make bike paths be on one of the other parallel
streets and I think that's in the plan as well not to have bike paths on Meridian. But the
word constrained usually means narrower lanes and other restrictions that might not
attract the traffic to use that street and that worries me a little bit. Am I interpreting that
correctly?
Ellsworth: Mr. President, Council Member Zaremba, I don't have the specs for across-
section just yet. In fact, I'm not entirely sure if those have been developed just yet.
Unfortunately, the project manager had -- had an unforeseeable circumstance come up
this evening, so he was not able to join us tonight. But first I will follow back up with him
to confirm all of these. What I recall, based on the concept designs and the discussions
to date, those constraints will come from things like removal of the separation for
sidewalks, in other words, no planter strips in some of these areas where the corridor
becomes more constrained, things of that nature. Bike paths -- or, excuse me, bike
lanes, rather, within the curb to curb area, the discussion so far has been that those will
not be a part of this -- this project. Part of that reason being that Main Street will have
them. Like I said, those are specific elements -- that's exactly the sort of thing that I was
hoping to hear from you guys. These are the elements that -- that I need to know to
keep an eye on once more complete cross-sections and more tangible designs start
coming together, rather than -- than receiving word later on in the process too late in the
game to provide the input from the city. So, Councilman Zaremba, if I understand, are
there particular roadway elements that you would -- I'm trying to think of how best to
couch this. What are some of the elements that should be asked for in the discussion?
I heard -- I heard bike lanes. I heard lane widths.
Zaremba: Well, no, I'm satisfied that the bike lane probably should not be on Meridian.
That is not a problem for me. But lane widths I think need to be the full standard 12. It
will be the truck route. It will be the major through traffic route in that area and I don't
think we want people to feel constrained as they drive through it, because this is where
we want the traffic to go.
Ellsworth: And, Mr. President and Councilman Zaremba, the reason that I chose that
phrasing, it was just to indicate that ACHD is looking at a right of way that's a bit more
narrow than a typical 96 foot five lane section and I wasn't implying that it's going to be
across the board cut, things of that nature, it's just they are looking to avoid structural
impacts on the adjacent properties, therefore, they are looking to get this into a right of
way that's more narrow than a 96 foot right of way.
Meridian City Council Special Meeting/Workshop
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De Weerd: Mr. President?
Rountree: Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: I guess at one time one of the discussion points were if that had to be a five
lane or could it be a four lane. Because of the lack of cross-streets between Carlton
and Fairview, can you choke that down to a four lane? Would that be of any help? I do
know there is a couple of turn movements, then, on the west side of that, but that might
be an option.
Ellsworth: Mr. President, Madam Mayor, I appreciate the input again. That's the reason
that I wanted to start this sort of dialogue and, then, that's certainly something that I
bring back to ACHD, their project manager as the conversation continues to move
forward.
Rountree: Matt, my comments on what you presented there in terms of the barriers or
medians or whatever you want to call them, given the volumes of traffic there, I'm not
sure I want to put anybody in jeopardy having to maintain something out there. So, if, in
fact, they have to do be there, I would suggest that the stamped concrete solution with
routine maintenance might be the best way to go. They will probably get driven over
frequently anyway. As far as Meridian goes, recognizing that it is a narrow right of way,
I would like to have whatever is designed there consistent, so you don't create
unexpected situations for drivers, like a separated sidewalk, and, then, an adjacent
sidewalk and a turn lane and, then, no turn lane. It doesn't work well. It's tough enough
when the traffic volumes are going to be what they are going to be on that road to stay
in your lane and not be distracted by what's going on around you. So, I think
consistency is the secret. What I would like to see is across-section or a typical section
of what we might ultimately yield through there as it redevelops, so that would be
consistent with the efforts that's going forth with TLIP, maybe something out of that that
-- as that part of town redevelops and it's slowly doing that, we could make some
changes, particularly with the pedestrian and the access situation. As far as the triangle
park, I think that's going to be a bit confusing for all of us, because I don't know who
owns what. I don't know whether the city owns all that corner or if ACHD owns it all or if
we own it jointly or separately or apart, but I think we probably ought to figure out
something to do with it, whether expand our areas of some kind of a monument or
something with MDC.
Ellsworth: Thank you, Mr. President.
Zaremba: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: On the medians in Meridian where they might exist, I wasn't really
envisioning those to be landscaped, I was thinking of some places they might even just
be the curbing that's narrower than a standard median. I think there are stretches along
Meridian City Council Special Meeting/Workshop
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there where we need to eliminate left turn movements and that would to me be the
purpose of it, not necessarily the decoration of the landscape.
Bird: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I believe that we need to have a turn lane on Meridian Road and which goes five
-- would make it five lanes that way, because as we redevelop we are going to
encourage business there and if you -- you have got to have some way that they can
turn across. I can imagine Fairview Avenue as it is now that size, two lanes south, two
lanes north, and a turn lane in the center. I'm like Mr. Rountree, I do want to be
consistent from Cherry Lane all the way down, not -- you know, not come up to Carlton
and, then, change it, because there isn't any cross, because, hopefully, there will be a
lot of business retail one of these days that we will be wanting to turn into.
Rountree: Any other guidance for Matt?
De Weerd: Steve.
Rountree: Oh, Steve. Yes.
Siddoway: Mr. President -- I lost my voice. It's coming back. Mr. President, Madam
Mayor, Members of Council, I want to concur and support what you're saying and going
back a few years to my involvement in the concept plan for this --
De Weerd: No. He lost his voice. I won't tell you how.
Siddoway: In the concept planning phase of this we were talking about a constrained
right of way, but it was full -- full lane widths. The example that was given at the time
was Franklin Road, which is built in a constrained section. Still has fuN lane widths, but
it is consistent. So, you can get the consistency, you can get the full lane width and you
can do the constrained section, but those are the things you need to watch out for.
Bird: I agree.
De Weerd: Hey, Steve, do you have any idea who owns the north curb?
Siddoway: I do not.
De Weerd: We maintain it.
Siddoway: Yes. We maintain it.
De Weerd: It is --
Meridian City Council Special MeetinglWorkshop
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Bird: I know Jimmy -- Jim Fuller, Frank, might be able to help us on this. It was named
after Jim and I don't know if he purchased the ground and donated it to ACHD or -- I
don't know what the deal was on that. And I was at the -- the dedication deal, so I don't
-- but I don't know who owns the property.
Siddoway: We can maybe pull up the assessor's records.
Rountree: I'm sure ACHD will be telling us.
De Weerd: That can be part of the study.
(b) Discussion of Draft 2009-2013 TIP
Rountree: Yeah. Carryon with item B, Matt. Discussion of the TIP.
Ellsworth: Thank you, Mr. President, Members of the Council, Madam Mayor. So, at
the COMPASS board meeting on June 16, 2008, the COMPASS board released for
public review and comment the 2008 Transportation Improvement Program. That
comment period runs for 30 days, so it will be open until July 22nd, 2008. Due to the
funding situation that we are all well aware of, no new major projects are proposed for
inclusion and reviewing this document for projects that are of high importance for the
city and throughout Ada county, there weren't too many major shake-ups, but prior to
submitting any comments to COMPASS for consideration and this year's update of the
TIP, I did want to bring the issue to you -- or this item to you to see if I was on the right
page as far as comments to submit. The first two comments are the projects on which I
would propose comments for relate to just the standard update to the TIP. In that I
mean two projects were initially proposed for construction in 2008. For one reason or
another those two projects have been delayed. When ITD and COMPASS come in the
first thing that's cut are projects that would have been constructed in the year that just
fell, 2008. Those two projects are Eagle Road from I-84 to Valley. If you will recall, that
was an amendment that the city proposed to the regional long range transportation plan
and to the TIP in order to allow the developer to move forward using the Stars financing
mechanism for improvements along Eagle Road. In order to allow that possibility to
remain on the table in 2008, a suggested request for that project is that it's included with
a target date of 2009. There is no financial implications of this project on the TIP, so
proposing it for inclusion in 2009 seemed a reasonable request. The second project --
De Weerd: Mr. President?
Rountree: Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: Before you move on, that is correct, we are still working with the governor's
office on that. In looking at the current legislation and what the proposed changes might
be needed, but definitely we would want to have a comment on that particular project.
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Ellsworth: Sure. Mr. President, Madam Mayor, my concern was that if it's removed,
that might disallow that project from moving forward. So, that's why I wanted to keep
that one in there. The second project on which I would recommend acomment --
similar situation, but it's Eagle Road from Victory to Ridenbaugh. That's a project that's
being funded entirely with local dollars. So, the situation is somewhat different, but
ACRD during their five year work plan update ended up having to -- having to slide that
back in order to make up for some of the cost overruns and so forth. So, a construction
date of -- split construction date of 10 and 11 -- 2010 and 2011. Again, just to insure
that that project remains in the TIP in this next iteration, the comment is to -- is to
include it with the corrected construction year from ACRD. The third and final project on
which I would propose comment from the city relates to -- and this one is, actually, a
new project. It's a very minor project program for 2013. It is to resurface the bridge at
the Meridian interchange. The comment that I would suggest --suggest making relating
to that project is -- if at all impossible include pedestrian and other related improvements
while it's under construction. Now, the amount of money that is indicated for that
construction project is 1,200 -- or, excuse me, approximately 1.2 million dollars. It's --
again, in conversations with COMPASS staff, it's a minor resurfacing project. So, they
weren't proposing to widen the bridge or anything along those lines, but just to keep that
on everybody's radar and let folks know, as the Mayor pointed out earlier this evening,
the city is still very interested in seeing some improvement occur at that location. It
seemed an appropriate request, given that this is a new project and resurfacing at that
same location. So, those were the three -- three comments that I would suggest and I
would entertain or do what I can to answer any questions that you have at this time.
Also, here with us this evening is Tony Tisdale from COMPASS. Thank you for your
time, Tony, for being here and so with that -- with that I would turn it over to you for any
questions you may have.
Rountree: Any questions for Matt?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Mr. President?
Rountree: Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: I guess, Matt, I can't even fathom spending 1.2 million dollars to resurface
something we hope will be totally rebuilt. I mean what a waste of money. I guess to --
to maybe have a place holder to have the Meridian interchange and the need for the
rebuilt, I don't know if that could be a place holder or not, but it is important to know that
that project is on there, but with a footnote that a rebuild is needed, rather than a -- a
pave over, because of safety concerns and because of the amount of traffic that the
interchange is carrying right now and probably will continue to. So, however we can put
a placeholder and, Mr. Rountree, you might have a better idea of how we can do that.
don't know.
Meridian City Council Special Meeting/Workshop
July 15, 2008
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Rountree: Madam Mayor, I appreciate your comment about is that appropriate use of
that kind of money. Unfortunately, it's that kind of money that is going to have to be
spent on that to keep people from breaking their teeth off when they drive over it the
next few years and I don't anticipate -- if they started studying it today, it would be
something on the order of seven to ten years before we would see a replacement. And
that's assuming funding is in the near future. So, I would support that project. I suspect
that project and maybe another one might be worn out by the time we get a new
interchange. But at least that one is needed. It's not a very good ride and it's getting
pretty bad going over that structure right now and it's not really pleasant coming into the
city that way.
De Weerd: Mr. President?
Rountree: Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: I guess, Matt, what I would appreciate is perhaps an update by the CIP
team. There were certain assurances they gave us when they pulled that particular
project off of the GARVEE eligible projects that -- because it was part of the
environmental from Karcher to Five Mile that they have be able to -- to include design --
in fact, I believe they were going to use a similar design at Orchard or Overland,
whichever -- Orchard, I believe. And that if there is savings that they would be looking
at, considering that going to the Meridian interchange. I would just like to get an update
as far as some of those discussions and where they stand in today's scenario.
Ellsworth: Mr. President, Madam Mayor, I'm happy to look into that and I will report
back once I -- once I'm able to connect with folks over at the CIP about where that --
where that moved between then and now. For the purposes of submitting comments on
-- on the draft TIP, if it seems reasonable to you, Mr. President and Madam Mayor, I'd
be happy to relay the comments or refine the comments that I feel like I'm hearing so
far, put them into aform -- into the form of the letter and get them back to you as a
Consent Agenda item on next week's -- next week's agenda.
Rountree: I think we have concurrence on that and we will see it next week for the
Mayor's signature.
Zaremba: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Matt, you mentioned the comment period, but correct me if I'm wrong, I
believe it's tomorrow at COMPASS there is, actually, an open house where this is being
presented and I think it's from 10:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. -- to 7:00 p.m. So, any of the
public or anybody else that wants to go see what's being presented and make
comment, that's a good opportunity to see it in visual right in front of you at COMPASS
tomorrow from 10:00 to 7:00.
Meridian City Council Special Meeting/Workshop
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(c) Transportation Task Force Recommendation on Lane Widths
Rountree: Okay. Go ahead with Item C.
Ellsworth: Thank you, Mr. President. Item 5-C is a Transportation Task Force
recommendation regarding travel lane widths on collector and arterial roadways.
Excuse me. Based on a presentation from the Ada County Highway District several
months back, the Transportation Task Force began discussion about lane widths --
what lane widths are appropriate on arterial and collector roadways and so forth. The
recommendation that they forwarded to City Council is that a minimum 12 foot lane
width on all travel lanes should be required on all arterial and collector roadways city
wide. In the weeks leading up to that discussion at the Task Force level, staff was
doing some research and looking into the pros and cons of this -- a give and take,
basically, with lane widths and so forth and one of the -- one of the documents that staff
came across is released by the Institute of Transportation Engineers pointing to some
instances in which flexibility and roadway design may have certain benefits for the
community and may also allow urban thoroughfares to function the way that urban
thoroughfares may need to function. My giant disclaimer on that is that I'm not an
engineer by any stretch of the imagination, but the way that I read this document, that
was -- that was sort of the long and short of it, is that some flexibility may be appropriate
with certain lane use considerations in mind. When I continued to consider the Task
Force's direction that they have indicated at prior meetings and some of the actions that
the city had taken, some actions of the city began coming to mind that -- that seemed
relevant to conversation and I'm considering the Ten Mile interchange specific area plan
within which more emphasis on pedestrian movements and multi-modal movements,
rather than a sole focus on auto oriented consideration in roadway design came to the
surface. You have a downtown transportation master plan was another one where
identifying your appropriate areas for through traffic, as opposed to destination.
Through traffic and some of the accommodations in order to make that work. And in the
interest of time, this -- this is one of those unique situations where -- where I'm relaying
to you a recommendation from the Transportation Task Force and I'm accompanying
that with an additional recommendation from staff. One more time, the
recommendations from the Task Force is that the City of Meridian require on all arterial
and collector roadways minimum 12 foot travel lane widths. Staffs recommendation is
that endorsing the committee's recommendation may not be in the best interest of the
city, because, on the one hand it may send a conflicting message to ACHD based on
some of the actions that we have taken in the past and also it may -- a one size fits all
approach may disallow certain creative solutions to roadway planning that may,
essentially, be able to benefit the community, when you view transportation corridors
through the sphere of moving more than just automobiles. So, with that I will turn it over
to you for questions, comments.
Rountree: Comments for Matt?
De Weerd: I agree.
Meridian City Council Special Meeting/Workshop
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Rountree: My comment, Matt, is I agree with staff, I think that the report you're referring
to says it all and flexibility is the answer for a lot of land use activities. It helps in
ultimate cost and in some cases flexibility yields traffic calming. So, I think you look at it
on a case-by-case basis and as far as I'm concerned, if we want to establish a
minimum, it's probably nine feet, but --
Zaremba: On arterials?
Rountree: You have driven them.
Zaremba: I don't like them.
Rountree: I don't either. But they work.
Zaremba: I don't mind them in my car. I hate them in my wife's --
Rountree: I mean that's a minimum. But I don't know that we constrain ourselves with
minimums. I think we -- we use sound engineering and sound land use planning and try
to accomplish what objective it is we are trying to accomplish in that particular part of
town and, I agree, in the Ten Mile area plan we did some innovative things that if it
comes off it will be unique to this part of the country.
Ellsworth: Thanks, Mr. President.
Rountree: And that's for two way traffic. Update on East 3rd Street.
Ellsworth: Thank you, Mr. President. And 1 am -- pardon me for a minute. The East
3rd Street extension alignment study analysis has been moving forward and it may be a
little bit tough to see specific portions of the matrix up on the overhead there, but I can
zoom in and I'm happy to do so. With this item I wanted to bring back before you the
findings of the analysis to seek your -- your approval of a preferred alternative. And the
reason that this is relevant right now is because the scoping for this project -- the project
team felt it might be more appropriate, rather than considering specific detail right of
way needs for each of the alignments under consideration, to the cost savings -- cost
savings measure, identify preferred alignment, and move forward only with that one as
far as specific identification of right of way needs. So, the analysis to date is based on
stake holder and public input, estimated right -- estimated right of way and construction
costs, a qualitative examination of traffic operations by our consultant and also review of
the adopted and active plans. The long story short, as summarized in the analysis
matrix on the overhead there, is that in all these categories, if any one rose to the
surface it was the 3rd to 3rd Street alignment and the only -- the only one of those --
those criteria where that was not the case was considering this alignment in light of
adopted plans, active plans, so on and so forth. In that instance all the alternatives
under consideration did conform or at least not counter any of the -- the adopted or
active plans that are currently on the table. So, if there are any questions on that we
can go into some of the specifics as to how -- how that analysis was prepared. There is
Meridian City Council Special Meeting/Workshop
July 15, 2008
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a second component of this agenda item that I can move to if things are coming through
fairly clearly. There is also a draft alternative on this alignment that, again, just spells
out in greater detail the -- the considerations that went into the analysis thus far. So, I
guess just to break this up, first, are there any questions about the analysis that's before
you as far as cost of right of way, anything along those lines?
(d) Update on East 3rd Street Extension & Alignment Study
Rountree: Move on.
Ellsworth: Thank you.
Rountree: Thank you.
Ellsworth: Mr. President, the additional component of this is that there are a couple
property owners along this 3rd and 3rd Street alignment and I know that some of them
are in the audience this evening, who -- who have either projects under construction in
this area or -- or property that will be substantially impacted by -- by one of these
alignments. The case I'm referring to more specifically here is the four-plex in the 3rd to
3rd Street alignment. Mr. Russell, who is the owner and developer of that parcel,
submitted a letter to staff several -- several weeks back, which I'd now like to read into
the record for you. We need to know what the city's intentions are concerning the
buying of this building. I would think the city would benefit from buying the unfinished
building from a willing seller, as opposed to four unwilling sellers. We would appreciate
a decision on this matter. In follow up -- and I have been in regular contact with Mark
throughout this process. He has been great to work with. And I have conveyed to him
that the city is a non-road building entity, is not typically in the process of purchasing
right of way for future roadways. However, having raised the question, I felt that this
was appropriate to get it in front of Council for their take. So, again, the two
components of this are on the one hand hearing your response and I guess seeking
your nod on moving forward with the 3rd to 3rd Street alignment as a preferred
alternative for a specific identification -- down to the foot level, essentially, of right of
way needs for a future corridor. Number two, a response to Mr. Russell on his request
as to how he can move forward with his project in his situation.
Rountree: Comments?
Zaremba: Mr. President?
Rountree: Go ahead, David.
Zaremba: Not to complicate the issue, but I also spoke to the gentleman that owns a
house that's address on Washington that would probably have to be entirely taken out
for this and he had similar concerns. He is not opposed to that alignment, but he's
facing a situation where in maybe two or three years from now he needs to remove his
house and that's a considerable expense, if a couple years after that it's going to have
Meridian City Council Special Meeting/Workshop
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to be bought for right of way. So, these are decisions that we need to help with and
move along and I don't necessarily have the answer, but I want to say that -- and I think
those -- the four-plex and this house are the only occupied -- or potentially occupied
structures. The four-plex is not occupied yet. But in the alignment I think they are the
only real usable habitat -- habitable structures that are affected by this, but I understand
the need of both parties to have an answer pretty quick.
Rountree: Matt, question. I assume these costs do not incorporate right of way
acquisition. Typically, they only refer to construction costs.
Ellsworth: Mr. President, Members of the Council, Madam Mayor, one component of
this was right of way costs and those estimates were based on discussions with ACHD's
right of way -- right of way division.
Rountree: Okay.
Ellsworth: Now, their big disclaimer on that is until we get in and we are designing
something, we won't know for sure. This is a very high level estimate, but based on the
information they were provided -- able to provide back to us, again, the 3rd to 3rd Street
alignment appears that this is based on the work that's been done to be the more cost
effective alignment of the four considers.
Rountree: And my question, then, is is this project something that will be scheduled in
ACHD's capital improvement program?
Ellsworth: Mr. President, Members of the Council, we intentionally sort of extracted the
implementation of this project out for the time being and there were several reasons for
that. ACHD is under the same funding realities as the transportation department and
everybody else at the moment and -- and, typically, they need to invest money where
the needs are the greatest and there is no good solid spot in their funding prioritization
methods for undesignated and non-existent roadway. I think it is, basically, to reiterate
the response in those early on conversations to you. There were a lot of other reasons
why -- why this study was important to the city, of course, in identifying future right of
way to provide certainly to these people on the ground about where future roadway is
going to go. To open the door for a future reinvestment. It's a situation where one
might be able to -- or be reluctant to invest in a project if you're not sure if a road's going
to go through it in five, ten years. So, short of -- of looking toward implementation and
construction of this actual roadway, there where other reasons to try to identify an
alignment for where it will go when it is constructed. Now, again, the response that I
have heard from ACHD is basically that right now it's not on their radar to construct it.
Now, they can be included with the city's list of project requests for the five year work
plan and it can work its way through their process like any other roadway project may.
And that's the conversation for the next few weeks here. They are reopening that
process. But, in any event, a long winded response and I apologize.
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Rountree: That's all right. I have got a question for Mr. Wardle. So, where is MDC on
this particular project and thoughts on funding and what's the time line?
Wardle: Mr. Chairman, I can tell you that this is a project that we are jointly funding with
the city planning department in terms of our consultant getting on the ground, working
through these studies, because we feel it's very important that we have some sort of an
alignment. One of the -- one of the examples that Matt brought up is there is a
development that was approved by a former Council and as I remember that discussion
from a former Council, that the Council really didn't have any idea whether they should
deny the project -- they didn't really have any standings to deny the project, based on no
future alignment and the property owner had the expectation to -- to get their project
approved and has done so. The real -- in my opinion, the real quandary that we have
today is we have two property owners which are impacted in terms of structures, other
property owners which are here today, all which are -- I'll use the term loosely --
reasonably anticipating that this will be the alignment and have worked with the
development corporation and the staff and are willing to -- to -- in their terms be
reasonable in terms of price. In my estimation of what I have seen in the past right of
way acquisitions, that's a positive step, one which should not be discounted. Matt
brings. up an excellent point in terms of it's not in the capital improvement plan, this is
typically something that the highway district does, as you saw earlier tonight in the
phase two of the split corridor, the project's planned, the alignment's there, and, then,
right of way acquisition is, essentially, moved forward before construction. The
Development Corporation doesn't have a -- a definitive position, other than it seems
from the studies that we have had and the citizen input that we have had, that this will
really help traffic flow through downtown, it will help the redevelopment of this entire
area. We have talked to a number of property owners. There is one property owner
with -- with large parcels of ground on 2 1/2 Street that has -- has, essentially, made the
commitment that at some point in the near future he would like to develop his
properties, but he won't do so until he knows where the roadway is.
Rountree: Okay.
Wardle: So, did I answer at least part of your question?
Rountree: Yeah. As close as you could.
De Weerd: Mr. President?
Rountree: Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: I guess, Shaun, some of these types of projects have been developer
driven. Are there the opportunities in that area, as you have been talking to some of the
property owners, for redevelopment that -- that might be a potential funding of that?
Wardle: Mr. President, Madam Mayor, I can tell you that the interest level from outside
development is very high for this area. There has not been a -- to my knowledge, a
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consistent consideration of property consolidation and that's what it would really take is
someone to come in and consolidate these properties with the expectation that they
would be developing in the future. I know that there are a number of people who have
looked at one of the vacant pieces of property which this roadway cuts through at the
corner of Carlton and 3rd Street and are in discussions, but to my knowledge they
haven't really looked at that entire corridor. So, from a developer driven initiative, I think
what you're referring to would be someone to consolidate those parcels and, then,
making improvements, with the expectation that they would be reimbursed through
potential impact fees or something like that. The one area that I would say is -- as I
understand it -- and, Matt, you can correct me if I'm wrong, that even if something like
that were to happen, it wouldn't be eligible for impact fee reimbursement today, because
it's not in the capital improvement plan.
Ellsworth: And, Mr. President, if I may, as I understand it, legislatively ACRD also can't
collect impact fees for collector roadway. So, that would be the other -- the other side of
that. And I don't know if there would be an opportunity at some point in the future to
form an LID to get this roadway constructed or if it's other opportunities for apublic-
private partnership, looking forward to implementation, again, I mean I feel like the -- the
thought from -- from the beginning or they are moving in -- to insure the project can
move forward for the other reasons that we have already brushed on in working in any
of those different directions, conversations with ACHD, conversations with property
owners, conversations with MDC developers, so on and so forth, that one can see
identifying a line and that was -- that was the direction that we were trying to take it in.
Wardle: And, Mr. President, just -- I can tell you that we have another project in our
southern border, which -- which we have dealt with the same issue in terms of it -- not
having the roadway improvements and the capital improvements program, have really
stalled that developer's ability to -- to seek reimbursement for what they feel are really
public improvements, so -- am I getting that right? I'm not. Perfect. I'll sit down.
Rountree: Christie, if you will help us out.
Little: Mr. President, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Christie Little with Ada
County Highway District at 3775 Adams Street, Garden City. If my cell phone buzzes,
it's because I'm talking to Adam Zaragoza, PM, for Meridian split corridors, so we are
still working on things here. So, I apologize. First, just impact CIP 101 briefly and that
is if a project is not in the CIP, then, ACHD cannot use impact fees to construct the road
or to purchase the right of way. Projects get into the CIP based on the COMPASS
model and that analysis. It's far different than the five year work program, where the
lead agencies submit request lists to ACHD and we take a look at that. CIP is much
more engineering specific and it's not something that we can manipulate based on a
developer's wants or needs. From the highway district standpoint with this 3rd Street
alignment study, we see this as a tool for the city and for ACHD that if a developer can't
consolidate or doesn't and we see some of these smaller pieces develop one at a time,
what it does allow us, if there is an approved alignment and adopt the alignment shown
on a map, preferably the city's comp plan map and it allows us to get the right of way as
Meridian City Council Special Meeting/Workshop
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those properties develop, have the developers, if they don't have much frontage on the
new road, road trust for those future improvements, so that in the future there can be a
road constructed. But because this isn't even classified as a collector roadway, this isn't
going to show up. It's not even in the COMPASS model, so it's not going to .show up in
the CIP and this type of roadway is typically as development occurs, they dedicate the
right of way, they construct the road and if there are small pieces and can't do that
individually, then, we make sure that that alignment is preserved and funds set aside by
the developer to do that. Any other question? Thanks.
De Weerd: Mr. President?
Rountree: Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: I guess what I would ask staff and MDC is -- and I know they have been
working with the property owners and it's difficult being put on hold, but when we are not
a road building entity, it's hard to make decisions on something that's not really in our
control. But if staff and MDC would take a look at what are some of the different funding
possibilities for this type of thing, you know, whether it's an LID or if it's something that
can fall in the entitlement opportunities or if it's something that MDC would entertain
some form of partnership with the potential future developer or something -- I don't
know. But if some of those funding ideas could be outlined to maybe help answer some
questions on if this road alignment is important, how that those possibilities could be
realized.
Ellsworth: Mr. President, Madam Mayor, I'm happy to work with MDC and others
involved in looking at some of those and report back to you.
De Weerd: That's all.
Rountree: Matt, I assume you're asking which of the options ought to be the line for
future planning and future decisions as they may arise from what development that's
being anticipated or being brought forward in that area? So, do we need to get that on
a map or do we just need to get that in terms of a Comprehensive Plan amendment that
-- that this seems to be the preferred alignment and recognize that there is no funding
mechanism and people that are on that line should not anticipate that their property
would be acquired until such time as that their property is acquired by somebody else to
make a development and -- I mean in one sense it makes sense to put a line on the
map and in another sense it doesn't, because the reality of it coming true depends on,
essentially, what a developer and what development wants to occur there. We do not
build roads and this road is not the type of road that ACRD would put in their program
and build, unless, for some reason, it could be a minor arterial and I don't think it's ever
going to qualify as that. Or unless the city makes a decision that we are going to go into
the road building business. Tom's not here to appreciate that.
De Weerd: I don't know. I know I'm not.
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Ellsworth: Well, Mr. President, Members of the Council, Madam Mayor, I guess what
I'm hearing, then, is without -- without some idea of how the actual construction of this
roadway could occur, it sounds like you're reluctant to identify an alignment for it; is that
-- is that safe? Is that fair or --
Rountree: This particular Councilman is not reluctant to identify an alignment, but that's
all it is. I mean I have identified some things I'd like as well, but that's -- they are just
there. Never going to happen.
De Weerd: Maybe.
Rountree: But if it's there it may happen and it may -- knowing that it's a preference
may stimulate some other activity.
Zaremba: Mr. President?
Rountree: MDC might decide that that's something important for the area and they may
explore at least right of way acquisition and corridor preservation. Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I would ask that we at least get the line on a map someplace and my
preference would be the 3rd Street, 3rd Street, 3rd Street alignment. It does give us the
advantage of being able to say there has been thought put into it. This is something
that has to do with the whole circulation of the downtown area, takes advantage of the
railroad crossing, which are precious. Meets Fairview at a good distance from Main
Street, so that maybe some day it could be signalized and the discussion that came up
at the time I was on the Planning and Zoning Commission, then, when the project came
through to do four-plexes, was there was nothing in anybody's record that said this
might ever happen anywhere and didn't really give us a way to discuss it. So, even if it
doesn't make it happen, I think our preserving the idea by getting a line on the map,
getting it on our Comprehensive Plan, maybe even suggesting that it should be
classified as a collector or minor arterial, at least puts us on record as saying we hope
that that will happen some time. I think it's important to take that step.
Bird: I agree. I agree with Dave a hundred percent.
De Weerd: Mr. President?
Rountree: Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: You know, I agree with it. I still think it's worth looking at funding options. I
don't know if any of them would be --
Rountree: I do, too.
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De Weerd: -- under, but I believe that information would be helpful to all of -- all the
property owners and investors, ACHD, the city, and MDC. At least to know what the
options are. And potential investors.
Herndon: President Rountree, Madam Mayor, Councilmen. Craig Herndon with the
Ada County Highway District, 3775 Adams Street, Garden City. I wanted to come up
here and speak about an issue regarding this alignment. MDC and the City of Meridian
had went through -- I have participated in the study through the process, but have not
had the opportunity to take it before our commission and ask for their -- or even bring
the potential alignment to them. I know that the property owners, if you delay an
alignment until I can get it before them, but l would like to have their input on whether
they see the recommended alignment as a viable option, as the road builder agency.
And they may have some idea of what to do about something with a right of way
through there. I don't know exactly how that affects what's being asked for you, but -- or
from you today, but that would be my comment or my request on it, so --
Rountree: I think that's an excellent suggestion. If they haven't seen it, they certainly
need to.
Herndon: And earlier I talked with Matt and I had tried to get the staff report before our
commission, just to give them an update and the Fourth of July holiday didn't work out
real well in trying to get discovery viewed properly, so I will try to get it onto our agenda
before our commission as soon as I can and I will alert city staff, let them know what's
going on with it, so that we can get information back to you on that also.
Rountree: Would that be by mid August anyway?
Herndon: Uh-huh. Definitely. I think we could do it by then.
Rountree: And, then, you could send a response back to us, either by letter or have
Christie be the messenger.
Herndon: President Rountree, Council, Madam Mayor, yes, I believe we could.
Rountree: Thank you.
Herndon: Thank you.
Rountree: And I would entertain a motion for that to that happen on this item.
Bird: Mr. President.
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move that on the alignment of 3rd Street that we hold off any recommendation
until the ACRD commissioners have had a chance to look at it and agree upon it, as
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July 15, 2008
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they are the road builders for the county, and they will have to report back by our
workshop in August, which is the third Tuesday.
Rountree: 19th meeting.
Zaremba: I'll second that.
Rountree: It's been moved and seconded.
Zaremba: And I have a question for discussion.
Rountree: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I agree with the sensitivity of having the ACHD Commission take the lead in
the decision making on this. My question is can we provide them with sales
information? Can we sell it?
De Weerd: You're invited to attend the discussion.
Zaremba: Okay.
Bird: I can sell anything that I don't have to pay for.
Rountree: Does that answer your question?
Zaremba: I think so.
Rountree: {t's been moved and seconded to send this item -- or to have ACHD review
this item before we make the final recommendation. All those in favor? Opposed?
Pass.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Rountree: We will see you August 19th or thereabouts. Thank you.
(e) ACHD Update Fairview Concept Design
Ellsworth: Thank you, Mr. President. The last item in front of you -- and I'm failing
miserably on the time constraints here and I apologize. 5-E is the ACRD update on a
Fairview concept design that's currently in process. For this project a ,policy group was
formed comprised of elected officials on which Council Members Bird and Zaremba are
representing the City of Meridian. One major component of phase two of this project,
which they are just now initiating, is the development of an access management plan for
the Fairview corridor and gathering input from adjacent property owners, so on and so
forth. At the last policy group meeting, the group decided that it was appropriate to get
-- get this issue out in front of city councils of Boise and Meridian for several different
Meridian City Council Special Meeting/Workshop
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reasons. On the one hand because certainly the implementation of an access
management plan along this corridor will require joint implementation by both the road
building entity and the land use entity. So, they really just wanted to take an opportunity
to introduce you to the approach that's currently on the table for this and to request your
feedback on what additional information will be necessary for you as the City of
Meridian to feel comfortable working with them on joint implementation and I know that
sort of thing is extremely hard early on in the process without seeing anything to
respond to, but just to make sure that they aren't missing anything from the city that you
would need out of stake holder involvement from interviews, so on and so forth. That's
the sort of input that the project manager was hoping to receive tonight. So, with that
brief introduction, I will turn it over to Kendall Kemmer, who is the project manager of
ACHD's concept design of Fairview Avenue.
Kemmer: Mr. President, Madam Mayor, Council Members. Kendall Kemmer, Ada
County Highway District, 3775 Adams Street, Garden City. As you know, I'm the project
manager for the Fairview corridor concept design project that we are doing right now, as
Matt mentioned. I want to give you a heads up primarily of the business workshops that
we have coming up. At the policy meeting that he referred to -- I believe it was Council
Member Bird or Zaremba had made a great suggestion that we do need to bring this
before Boise, Meridian, and I also brought it to the ACRD commission last week,
because I think it's vitally important that you know what we are planning and what we
are doing for various reasons. So, we have got three workshops set up. They are
August 18th, the 20th, and the 21st and we are working on the invitations and the
locations of the meetings and I will be able to provide that to you as we get that done -- I
guess a little further developed. We have broken up -- as Matt mentioned, too, we have
got an access management plan we are developing for the Fairview corridor as part of
the concept design. For these different workshops we have broken up the corridor into
three segments. One is from Linder to Eagle, Eagle to Maple Grove and, then, Maple
Grove to Orchard. The purpose of it is primarily for those business owners in those
regions, they come to these workshops -- we are not excluding anybody who is along
that corridor to come to any meeting, because, obviously, some people may not be able
to make the meeting that best fits them. The purpose of the workshop is I'd say two or
three fold. First off, we want to find out from the business owners their concerns, what
they see as visions of Fairview and Cherry Lane in Meridian. And part of this feeds off
in the first phase of the project we did do a limited stake holder interview process where
we contacted business owners -- we actually met with the city staff, then, too. And it
would be somewhat the same thing, just trying to get their feedback and input on
concerns and issues that they see. But I think probably the biggest aspect of this is to
educate them and provide them some information on some of the access management
tools we are looking at for implanting on the Fairview corridor. A couple of those that
we have talked about -- you know, potential for medians. I know one thing that we are
looking at is -- even with traffic volumes right now on Meridian -- on Fairview and --
except at the two very ends, they exceed some of the standards right now for where --
what the traffic engineers say we should have. Median controlled access. We are also
going to be looking at cross-access that for the most part will occur during
redevelopment, but there could be some cross-access opportunities that happen prior to
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that. Relocation of access points through redevelopment is another option. Backage
roads is another thing we talked about. One thing I thought that was kind of a good
point at the policy committee meeting that we had was -- and I believe Council Member
Bird, again, was pointing out that one thing that would really help the various corridors if
we all have a plan that we have all agreed to, ACHD and the city, we got it on paper, we
have got it laid down, so everybody knows what the expectation is when development
comes in and I think that's one thing that's kind of been lacking on the corridor and
made it difficult for all of our agencies I think to help that corridor.
De Weerd: You were visionary, Mr. Bird.
Nary: Let's not start that again.
Rountree: When is it my turn?
Kemmer: One other thing that we think is vitally important, though, too, is giving you the
heads up that you should and will expect phone calls, things like that from business
owners could happen before the workshop, it could happen after. There is going to be a
lot of questions about access control and what does this mean for us and what is this
going to do to my business. I have a couple of things --
De Weerd: You can't talk unless you're speaking into the microphone.
Kemmer: I'm sorry. Thank you, Mayor. We passed this out at the policy committee
meeting. This is one of the -- an FHWA brochure and we are going to be having these
available at the business workshop, too, but this is a tool to educate and inform
businesses, I guess, and some of the concerns. It addressed a lot of their issues. That
is when they came up with that policy committee with a recommendation for talking
points that the Council may wish to have when they have this discussion or they have
got angry business owners or just concerned business owners asking questions. If you
look through the documents -- I wonder if I could get one of you -- I may have given one
of you one of my -- did I give you the one that's marked up?
Bird: Yeah. You did. I think --
Kemmer: As you look through this document, they have got some great areas identified
there in the green text and are some great talking points that you may wish to use if you
have questions that arise. And I don't know if you want me to bore you with going
through a few of them right now, but --
De Weerd: Mr. President?
Rountree: Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: I guess, you know, I appreciate this and I'm sure I will read it, but if you feel
there are particular talking points that are pertinent to the west and to Idaho and
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particularly to -- to this stretch of road, if you could pull those out of this report and put
them together that would be --
Kemmer: Sure. We can do that for you.
De Weerd: And, then, we are all speaking off the same sheet of music.
Kemmer: Yes, ma'am.
Rountree: Is that another way of saying you're not going to read it?
De Weerd: I'll read it. Promise.
Bird: I was going to say, what a cheap out.
Kemmer: But, yes, there are certain ones in here that are highlighted that are more
appropriate in the situation we are looking for. So, I appreciate that comment that I
provide that for you.
De Weerd: I appreciate it, too. Thank you.
Kemmer: I haven't gotten around to doing that yet. And we do have some time before
the workshop. Trying to think if there is anything else, then, too. You know, one of the
other -- the other big thing, though, too, is just -- I guess one thing we are going to try to
lay out for the business owners is -- and we have got Fairview now. We know the
conditions that are out there now, but I think one of the biggest challenges we have is
widening the road is going to create some issues for access, but, more importantly, the
increase of the projected traffic for that roadway is going to make things I guess a little
bit more difficult and I think the thing that we are trying to I guess notify or let the
business owners know is we are not doing this to hurt their business, we are -- I mean
access management is a tool that is used to help the vitality of their business to keep --
you know, to keep the corridor functioning and be viable in the future and just what the
traffic lines are projected, it's only going to get worse, it's just to try to alleviate some of
their fears and concerns. Besides the workshop -- and part of the things we will have --
after we have -- the consultant's going to be doing about a half hour presentation on
access management options. He'll talk about what's been developed so far. The
consultant has already done -- they are in the process of doing the safety analysis for
the corridor. So, they will have some ideas and options they will present at that
meeting. After we are done with the -- the little educational segment, we are going to
have these break-out sessions where businesses can get more of a one on one with
staff members and with the consultant to address their individual concerns -- specific
concerns to their business and, then, also within our contract we have also allotted for --
I believe it's around 60 individual meetings with property owners if there are businesses
that just want to have some additional meetings with us afterwards as the project moves
forward. We have got some opportunities in there for them as well. So, I guess this is
-- you know, this is one of the biggest tools we have for our outreach for the business
Meridian City Council Special Meeting/Workshop
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owners is these business workshops and we hope they are well attended and the
advertisement that I believe will be going out probably in a couple weeks. I know our
communications department are just working on finalizing the invitations and the
announcements.
De Weerd: Mr. President?
Rountree: Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: Can you tell me is -- on Parks -- Park Avenue -- Park Creek Avenue --
Park --
Kemmer: Park Center Boulevard?
De Weerd: Yes. There you go. Was -- were those medians in when they built the
road? Were the businesses in prior to that? Do you have examples of where access
management has happened in existing business areas that could perhaps -- you know, I
look at the quotes in here, they are all in Iowa or -- you know, we may think that is
Idaho, but since we live here we know Iowa is not Idaho. But I would be curious to get
more local comments or quotes and how that has affected their business and it's
actually that business-to-business type of relationship that would have greater credibility
than this might.
Kemmer: And, Madam Mayor, Mr. President, one thing we have been working on with
our traffic department and with the consultants is trying to identify those local areas that
we can highlight and show that have been a success in an access management. Now,
this region doesn't have a lot of that. Park Center Boulevard, as far as I've understood,
when that project was built the medians were built with the project and Iguess -- I have
only been in Idaho eight years. I don't know what the -- how many of the businesses
were there prior --
Bird: Not very many.
Kemmer: What I have been told is it's not very much. So, those businesses, I guess,
from a positive standpoint is they came in with having that access control, having the
medians on Park Center Boulevard. Iguess that's one of the good examples where we
actually got ahead of the curve. But we are -- but I know our traffic has identified some
local areas to the consultant that I know they have taken photos of that, they are going
to be having those at the presentation, because I think it is very important to show the
local success stories, because a lot of the reason there, too, is, you know, we can talk
hypothetically about what happened in some other region -- it doesn't really translate to
local businesses, because conditions are different and one thing, too, that kind of came
up during our development of this was should we bring in someone from outside who
has gone through this and they could talk to the business owners. We didn't see that as
being that effective, because 1 think the concern is that it's -- that's elsewhere, that's not
here, but -- and we are also trying to work on getting some good success stories. One
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success story that we did have through the first round when we did our stake holder
interviews, was D&B Supply across from the Fred Meyer there off Locust Grove. When
we did our interviews with him, he had pointed out to me that when that median -- that
extending that curb out in front of that business, when that first came in he was against
it. He was very concerned about impacts to his business. But he did say now that it's
in, it's cut down on the accidents, my customers can get in better, the traffic is flowing
better with the new overpass on Locust Grove. More traffic can access the business off
Locust Grove and he did say that he is very much supportive of what we did there. He
wasn't at first, but that's one of the local -- that's a local success story and right on
Fairview, too, which I would think is key. And we are looking for more of those, but
there aren't that many.
Bird: Mr. President. Also, right across the street from there -- Avest or Fred Meyers,
eliminated one of their accesses and was very happy. Wasn't happy at first when
ACHD had demanded it. My biggest concern, Council -- and I know David feels the
same way -- is Fairview is unique, let me tell you. Fairview is unique. I -- that business
has got -- we have got a couple gentlemen out here that have two properties that
depend on Fairview. So, it is unique and very little of it isn't developed. We have
probably got from the church on -- there on Meridian -- to Meridian Road is one little
area that isn't developed and -- and, then, on across there where the Center Cal
development's going on, so it's going to be touchy, but we have got to get the
businesses to buy in. That's my personal opinion. And also we have got to make sure
that both councils and mayors buy in. And now is the time, if you have any
disagreements, get them out on the -- at these public meetings and to get them out and
get it ironed out, so that we go in united, not divided.
De Weerd: Another visionary statement.
Bird: Another visionary statement. Man, I'm just so visionary.
Nary: There is not going to be enough room to sit up here.
Kemmer: Mr. President, Councilman Bird, wholeheartedly agree and that's why in
terms of the whole development of this Fairview concept design, I think every time I
have gotten before the councils I have stressed the importance of having the council's
support for access management -- it's just very vital to the corridor and very appreciative
of ACHD to have your support to help try to get us to succeed for Fairview Avenue. And
Fairview Avenue is very unique and we know right, too, ACHD is in the process of
updating our access management policies, looking at things a little more stringent than
what we currently have, but the thing about Fairview and the way our policy is written,
too, is if there is a specific corridor plan or an access plan for a corridor, that will
supersede and I think that's what we are trying to create here on Fairview is we are
trying to create the best solution for Fairview, not necessarily have a cookie cutter policy
that fits everywhere, but really try to tailor it to Fairview and the consultant has been
doing a lot of work, even in the first phase, too, going out there, looking at the land uses,
what's out there right now, with what the city is envisioning. During the first phase we
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worked with your staff to kind of identify those areas that are more prone to
redevelopment and part of that was just to help within the access management plan to
look for those key areas. Aback-age road, we talked about it at the policy meeting, and
we can create some locations where we have got aback-age road plan and everybody
is on board. It will make it a lot smoother when development comes in if everybody
understands where -- where those certain features need to be. So, with that I guess I'm
open for questions if you have anything and thank you for the time tonight.
Rountree: Any questions? Comments? My comment is that I think it's great that you're
doing that. The idea of a management plan for -- access management plan for a
corridor is an excellent idea. The tough part is getting everyone to agree.
Kemmer: Yes, sir.
Zaremba: You didn't mention the part about us planning it to be 15 lanes, though.
Somehow that didn't come up.
Rountree: That's the concept of the design, not the concept of the access
management.
Kemmer: Mr. President, Councilman Zaremba, no, I mean if you want me to reiterate,
we are planning for seven lanes on Fairview between Meridian Road and Curtis, but on
the two very ends from Meridian to the west and, then, Orchard -- or between Curtis and
Orchard, we are looking to keep that five. That was what came out of the first phase
and, actually, working with the policy committee meeting in our first meeting, what was
one of the big questions that we had for them is what -- what options should we be
looking at for lane configuration, so -- okay.
(i) Approve new Beer and Liquor licenses for Teco One LLC., doing
business as Bill and Lynn's BB, 229 W. Franklin Ave., Meridian,
Idaho 83642
Rountree: Very good. Thanks, Kendall. Okay. I'm going to make a slight adjustment
in the agenda. We have kept the Ewings sitting long enough. They probably should
have been out of here two hours ago. So, I would like to move item (forward --
Zaremba: So moved.
Rountree: I'll second that. All those in favor? Aye. So, Bill.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilmember Rountree, this
application is in front of you, because you may recall a few years ago we changed the
licensing requirements in the city in regards to what we term closet bars and what the
ordinance requires is that each license must be located in a place with an actual
physical street address as issued by the postmaster. I believe this does. I had this
conversation with Lieutenant Overton. It does have a suite number that was issued by
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the post office that is, essentially, arear -- and that's the only thing I was unsure from --
from Lieutenant Overton's discussion was whether or not it's a separate building or if it's
enclosed inside of Bill and Lynn's. I think it's totally enclosed. The ordinance also
requires that there is no more than one license at each address, which I think this
complies with. The location address must be included in the application. If it is located
within, connected, or immediately adjacent to the licensee, it must provide a floor plan
so that the police department can tell which is the license area that this place is serving,
which is the license area that the adjacent property is serving. And that -- on the
drawing I couldn't tell if it's one business or two or one building or two and so that was
part of the discussion we had and I don't know if -- Lieutenant Colaianni is here, I don't
know if Lieutenant Overton even gave him any information about this. It appears not.
But, finally, the final decision was to be decided by the Mayor and the Council. So,
that's the reason it's on your agenda is when we had this discussion a couple years
ago, these were fairly unique circumstances to issue these types of licenses and the
direction at the time was that you wanted to see them, so that you would be able to
decide does this comply. Now, Mr. Ewing's back in the room, I don't know if he heard
all of those things that were concerns with this particular application. But Mr. Ewing,
senior, did, so -- anyway, that's why it's in front of you, Mayor and Council, is you do
have to approve it and it was just to make sure there is some clarity for the police
department between what is this licensee, as well as the Bill and Lynn's license.
Bird: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: This is a closet bar; right? There is -- there is two licenses at the one location at
one --
Rountree: One roof.
Nary: You have to come up here.
Bird: Come on up here.
Nary: While he's walking up, the reason our ordinance is written that way is, obviously,
there is many places where there is one roof with a number of businesses in it, which is
why we have allowed it to be a suite number. Some places have physical addresses,
like the Whitewater Saloon has a separate physical address than that rest of the
structure. In other places you may have one business address with the various suites.
So, we weren't as concerned about that. We were primarily concerned from an
enforcement standpoint that we could distinguish one license serving area from another
license serving area.
Ewing: Tuck Ewing, representing Teco One. Could you, please, repeat the question?
We do have -- it is under one roof, but it is two different suites. Same address, two
different suites, but it does have two different access points. The way it is set up at this
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time is you cannot access the bar in question from the front of Bill and Lynn's existing
access right now, you have actually got to go through a designated door to get into it
and it is controlled by the management staff. So, there is no -- you can't intermingle
between the two.
Bird: Without going outside and going around.
Ewing: That's correct.
Bird: Okay.
Rountree: So, Tuck, the question seemed to be on staffs review is they could not
distinguish the separate serving areas and that was an issue. So, if there is law
enforcement issue, they need to be able to tell by map or a drawing or --
Nary: Yeah. On the application, what is unclear, when I look at this map, Tuck, it's -- I
can't tell that it's a separate structure or if it's within the structure. So, it's two separate
-- it's separated by a wall. There is no access in between them; correct?
Ewing: There is access in between them, which would be the kitchen, which was a
concern at the time, but how -- what we did in concern with that is is that the operating
hours of the bar in question does not run during kitchen hours, so the kitchen will not be
in use for Bill and Lynn's. So, there will be no access granted from the back area
through the kitchen to Bill and Lynn's. That's prohibited through the management side
of it. So, to get in from -- into the bar in question, you have got to go through its
entrance in the back, which you can't get into Bill and Lynn's that way and you can't get
into the bar in the back through the front entrance of Bill and Lynn's, if that makes
sense.
Nary: Okay.
Ewing: Because that area in between is, then, closed, which is the kitchen, and it's
closed.
Nary: Okay. Mr. President, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Ithink --Ithink
that's sufficient from the information we have to be able to go forward and it does
comply. But I was just trying to make that clarity that there isn't an access between
these two, because it really is just a line drawing and so it's not -- it's not very clear on
the drawing as to how the accesses are to those, so I wanted the police to be able to
not have to question -- if someone's in one location, where the alcohol was located and
where it came from, just like if they are in the other -- Bill and Lynn's to where they can
find where the alcohol came from.
Ewing: And Ithink -- okay. Any other questions forme?
De Weerd: So, how do we partake in a drink at your establishment?
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Bird: You go in the back door.
Ewing: Just give me a call and I will take you on a personal tour -- no. You record this.
Nary: We got it on --
Rountree: That's okay, Tuck. We all know what you --
Ewing: You know what I meant.
De Weerd: We do know.
Bird: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: If nobody has anymore questions, I move we approved the beer and liquor license
for Teco One, LLC, doing business as Bill and Lynn's BB at 229 West Franklin,
Meridian, Idaho.
Zaremba: Second.
Rountree: It's been moved and seconded to approve the bear and liquor license for
Teco One. All in favor? Okay. Unanimous. It's approved.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
(f) Update on Tree Replacement Program
Rountree: Thank you, gentlemen. Now, we will go back to Item 5-F and G. Mr.
Siddoway.
Siddoway: Thank you, Mr. President, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Before
you tonight to bring you two updates and solicit your counsel. Tara is passing out a
map of the downtown tree placement. It was requested that I -- I give you an update on
where the tree placements have been made and what we plan to do. So, that's what
this is. I do have it up on the screen. You will see on this -- on this map that it
illustrates those that have been -- the tree wells that have been placed in downtown due
to new construction around the Bank of the Cascades, formerly Farmers and
Merchants. There are 12 of those. We have those that have been replaced by parks
and rec staff and there are 24 of those. And, then, we have future ones related to City
Hall. And, then, those that are proposed for this year and I'm going to walk you through
those. So, today we have 24 trees downtown in tree grates that have been installed by
parks and rec over the last several years. We also have 12 that have been installed by
new development, for a total of 36 new tree grates that are in downtown today. If you
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were to walk around downtown today you would see 36 tree grates that are out there
existing that we maintain and have installed over the last several years. What are we
planning to do this year? We have got three trees that will go in as part of the Old Town
library project right across the street here. That project is ready for bid. The help desk
ticket has been submitted to purchasing and it's ready to have Keith Watts work his
magic and get it out to bid. The anticipated cost for that project is 30,000 dollars. We
are sharing those costs between the city, MDC, and the library. We also have identified
four this year that are in urgent need of replacement. One at 706 Main Street has an
irrigation leak in the line. One at 140 East Idaho, which has a break or a plug of some
kind in the line and we determined that the three trees downstream from it are not
receiving water, so we are going to get in there and get that one addressed. And one at
52 East Idaho, which is leaking irrigation water. And, then, one right in front of Sunrise
which has some significant concrete and brick damage from roots. I was -- I was
interested and pleased to see the number that are out there. So, if you -- in addition to
those that we are planning to do, there are more coming this year. We have 15 new
tree wells and grates coming as part of the new City Hall project and we will be involved
in maintaining those. As mentioned during the budget process, we are building the tree
well frames for those. We do not have a specific number, as we have not seen a plan
for the proposed parking lot that will or may be developed at the Bower Shell location.
We know that there will be trees associated with that, if and when it does happen. If
you add to those the seven that we are planning to do on the previous slide, we have
got 28 tree wells that are going to be added to downtown this year. If you add those to
the 36 that we have out there today, by the end of this year there will be 64 new trees
and grates by the end of year. And also asked about -- you know, what do these cost
and it's hard to come up with a typical amount, because as you get under the ground
every one is its own unique situation, but, in general, we find that those tree well
replacements cost us about 6,000 dollars. That includes the stump grinding and
removal, the excavation, concrete demolition, which varies, depending on how the roots
are. The hauling. The concrete box, forming it and pouring it. The irrigation. Now,
what we find is that some of these existing tree wells are not in the locations that MDC's
adopted plan has them for the future. So, if we have to relocate that tree well location,
there is about another thousand dollars associated with filling in and covering up the
one hole and moving it to a new spot. Based on our current budget of 50,000 dollars,
we can do five to seven trees annually. That's based on current costs and that does
cover the -- oh, I skipped over the utility repairs. As we get underground there is always
some utility repairs that need to be made. We spend roughly five to 15 thousand
dollars, depending on what we find underground each year. So, five to seven trees we
can cover each year, based on our current budget. That covers the replacement cost,
plus the utility repair. This is our first year with the 50,000 dollar budget and that's
partially funded by the city and partially funded by MDC as a partnership and this is
what we are doing with those funds. I do have a couple of the discussion items for
Council. One, we have got the site right out front here; it has some issues, as we know.
This spring the -- we did do some grinding to try and take down a lot of those high
spots, but there is some pretty bad situations out here. It's been our understanding that
this -- the future of this site is in flux and it may not make sense to spend money to
replace the tree wells out in front here if this site to be redeveloped, then, we would
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have the new tree -- tree locations interfering with that. It might be better to do those
with the future development. So, I would seek some counsel from you as to if that
should be the case, if you would like to see the ones along this street replaced next
year, but it seems to me, based on the current discussions, that it may not make sense
to do that, but I have heard enough debate that I wanted to ask that question and get
some guidance and maybe I'll stop there for a minute.
Rountree: Comments? Guidance?
De Weerd: Mr. President?
Rountree: Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: I guess I'm to blame on the hold off until you know what's going on and they
did the grinding to help with the -- the traffic flow that goes by there and until we know
what's going to happen with the City Hall site, didn't want that reinvestment without the
knowledge of what we were going to do long term.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I agree with you and I would say let's hold off until we really
and truly have an idea of what we might do here, but it's not been solidified and that
could change.
Siddoway: Okay. Right now given the funds that we have and as you see from the
ones we selected to do this year, every year we do find those when we fire up the
irrigation system that have developed new leaks, problems, issues and those are the
ones that we prioritize for replacement and I believe under the current situation that that
is how we need to continue functioning and I would just seek any discussion or counsel
from you on that as well.
De Weerd: Mr. President? I guess, depending on cars driving through trees or trees
that were damaged due to wind -- and I think that's what happened to one of them in
front of Bank of Cascade, is one that apparently snapped in two.
Siddoway: Yes.
De Weerd: We just walked by it today.
Siddoway: And we are getting that one replaced as well. That one doesn't have -- it
already has the box, so that's just a tree replacement, so we can do that without the full
cost of a new tree box and everything like that.
De Weerd: Okay. So, the cost is not participated in by the business, then?
Siddoway: No.
De Weerd: Okay.
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Zaremba: Mr. President?
Rountree: David.
Zaremba: Is there any tracking of -- over some span of time you have had to replace
the same tree three times or -- that makes you suspicious about the soil or the irrigation
or something that you --
Siddoway: I could ask --
Zaremba: I agree with replacing them as the need appears, but are there any spots
where the same tree goes bad every other year?
Siddoway: No. Not that I heard have of. The only case where that might happen is if
one was replaced and, then, it was hit by a car or something, but not from issues
associated with soil or irrigation or something like that.
Zaremba: Okay. Thank you.
(g) Update on Settler's Tennis Courts Phase 1
Rountree: Okay. Let's hear about the tennis courts.
Siddoway: Okay. Again, we have -- so far this year we have completed the
construction documents, we have done our detail cost estimates, and we have made
those corner improvements for the barn removal, irrigation. I do have -- one of the
questions that came up during the budget hearings was what will it cost if we want to
add the -- the championship tennis court, the lit court, to phase one, and I, actually,
have worked on that since the budget hearing and, Tara, if you'd pass out those two
cost estimates. One of the cost estimates she's passing out is the one that you have
already seen for phase one as it currently is proposed. And the second one is a revised
phase one that would include the championship court. So, this is the draft phasing plan
that has been before you before. Three phases from west to east and the first phase to
include shelter, two tennis courts, and a horseshoe area. The area that's in question for
the championship court is just to the east of that in this location. Taking Council's
direction from the last time we talked about this, I want to make sure we are building a
complete phase, so that phase one line would extend to and include the area
surrounding that court, including the additional paving, utilities, lighting, et cetera. Just a
quick reminder -- on phase one -- on the phases as they currently stand, in today's
dollars, 603,000 for phase one, about 1.2 million for phase two. Just over a million for
phase three. For a total of 2.8 million dollars for all three phases together and any
future structure that would be placed in the phase three area would be in addition to
that. So, phase one as currently depicted, 603,000. If we add the championship court,
we have a phase cost of 784,000. The additional add-on is 181,000 dollars. And you
have the details of that in the cost estimate in front of you. So, the -- let me -- let me
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pause there and just ask if there are strong feelings one way or another as to whether
we should be sticking with current phase one or the phase one with the championship
court.
Bird: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Steve, didn't we, in fiscal year'08, budget -- budget something for phase one?
Siddoway: Yes. You budgeted 459,800 dollars as part of this fiscal year. I came
before you as part of the budget hearing -- came before you as part of the budget
hearing to request the additional 150,000 that would be needed.
De Weerd: Mr. President?
Rountree: Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: Just to help Steve out, because he's losing his voice or -- he's gaining it
back, but I guess we asked if you put this on the workshop agenda to give an update, to
give the additional cost estimate if we were to include the championship tennis court, to
talk about how he can get them built sooner, rather than later. At this point Steve's
been in discussion with finance and this was also mentioned last week to look at
borrowing funds from the land fund and, then, paying it back in next year's budget,
which was the 150,000 dollars difference between what was budgeted in last year's
budget and. the actual cost, because last year's budget was an estimate. They did not
go through per a design to come up with the specific total. You also have in front of you
the additional cost for the championship tennis court. And I guess what the direction
being sought tonight is if we were to borrow the shortage from -- and we are talking just
right now the 150,000 from the land fund, there wouldn't have to be any transfers. Next
budget year it would immediately be transferred back into the land fund and you could
start construction on the tennis facility this fall, rather than later and -- did that
summarize it, Steve?
Siddoway: That does. I have one additional piece to add. So, a piece of that 459,000
is spent and -- as it was planned to be on the green up of that corner and removal of the
barn. That was part of the -- what those funds were intended for. We spent about
15,000 dollars on that this spring. We are fortunate this year in that we have had three
out of three construction projects come in under budget, I'm pleased to announce. But
our Settler's maintenance building, the Adventure Island playground, and the Heroes
Park landscape project have come in under budget.
De Weerd: Hurray, huh?
Siddoway: Yeah. So, we -- I have only requested an additional 150, even though if you
subtract 15,000 off of 459, you get a little more than that. But the savings that we have
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realized off of Settler's maintenance building makes -- will make up the difference. Now,
we also have -- we were before Council this spring about -- talking about the splash pad
and seeking direction on several options to do there. The Settler's Village Square is in
the same fund item as -- it's Settler's Park improvement fund. So, this money is in
there. The Settler's maintenance building money is in there. Another capital for
Settler's Park is in the same line item. We have been spending funds out of that line
item for the splash pad and we have been trying diligently to just absorb those costs
with the savings that we have realized on those projects. But I don't believe we can do
that, so one item that I would like to discuss is we have spent -- I tallied all the line items
up associated with the splash pad. The UV unit was just under 20,000, like we talked
about. There was modified pluming, safety equipment that was purchased. Signage.
Changing stations in the restrooms. Anew non-slip coating for the splash pad that were
all implemented as safety features. We spent about 34,000 dollars out there. In talking
with finance, they believe that we should delay the second bullet on there for 34,000
from 72. Transfer those costs out of the Settler's Park construction account and to the
Adventure Island and come to you with an amendment next week for that amount. But I
didn't want to just bring it to you next week without first talking about it. That does free
up a little money in the Settler's Village -- or Settler's Park improvements line item that
the Settler's Village Square project comes out of. I got to tell you I have been working
with finance on making sure that we have enough money -- everything that's been taken
out and that is planned to be taken out of that account. I have every indication right now
that that is true, but I have been finding some -- some questions in the data when we
pull funds that are encumbered versus not and it's doing some strange things. So,
finance is working on those numbers for me and I would ask that I can continue working
with them next week -- the rest of this week and maybe solidify that confidence that --
that we do. But right now it appears from the numbers that I'm looking at that we have
-- we have the money that if we had the 150,000, plus the amount in the account, we
can build phase one as it's currently proposed. But in order to do that, I would propose
that an amendment -- the Adventure Island account that we cover the cost that we have
incurred associated with the splash pad improvements that came up after the budget
cycle last year. We were not budgeted for this year and, as I say, we have been trying
to absorb them, but I do believe we will need that amendment to keep things whole.
And with those proposals, we would propose to go out to bid immediately and see if we
can't get that built this fall.
Bird: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Steve, if I understand right -- and I'm not going to -- you can say yes or no. I don't
want you to talk too much. I feel sorry for you. We have got 603 for phase one.
Siddoway: Yes.
Bird: Forget about the championship court.
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Siddoway: Okay.
Bird: Okay. We budgeted 459, which we used 15,000 out of that.
Siddoway: Correct.
Bird: And didn't we take the 34,472 out of that, too?
Siddoway: Well, yes and no. That's what I'm saying. It's out of the same account, but
it's not --
Bird: We did. We did. Right now. So, if we borrow 150 from the land acquisition and
add to what we have got left in phase one, then, we are looking at having approximately
560,000 dollars towards phase one. And your estimate, which you're telling me is pretty
accurate this time. It's 603. And, then, if we take -- if we take and budget amend the
34,372 to the Adventure Island account, which is where, in my opinion, should probably
wind up?
Siddoway: Yes.
Bird: Then, we are back up to 594,000 dollars. So, basically, we are only, you know,
9,000 short of what phase one is. If -- if this math works out this way -- and I'd
personally would like to see it get started on the thing.
Siddoway: Yes.
Bird: And get phase one going, because, basically, we are that close.
Siddoway: Right. And the difference, like I was saying, can be made up with the
savings that we have realized from the Settler's maintenance building in the same
account. So, I think we have the 603,000 dollars with this scenario.
Bird: Well, even if we don't get five hundred and some -- and, hopefully, the way the
bidding market is out at the construction world right now, it will -- it will come in under,
as you found out on two of your projects.
Siddoway: It's our best chance to --
Bird: As I believe Clint found it out in our utility bids and stuff, they are coming in, so I
would like to get started on it. I'd like to see something going on out there. It's --
anything we do adds to getting rid of the weeds and the dirt and stuff we have got out
there. I would like to see it get started if we got the money. That's my personal opinion.
Rountree: I'd entertain a motion to --
Zaremba: Can I ask a question?
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Rountree: Go ahead.
Zaremba: Well, my question is we are still only talking about the old phase one --
Rountree: Yes.
Zaremba: That's not including the --
Bird: Not the championship court.
Zaremba: That leads me to the other question, which is the championship court is in
phase two and the question is whether it ought to be done next year or whether it ought
to be done the year after.
Siddoway: We -- we have prepared an enhancement for phase two, but pulled it out of
consideration to keep the balanced budget. So, we do know the cost associated with
that, but it does not appear that we can build it next year under the current proposal.
Budget proposal.
Zaremba: Okay. So, it wouldn't just be a matter of shifting money from one year to the
other, we -- we can shift it forward a couple of years, because this is going to be farther
out.
Siddoway: Correct.
Zaremba: In that case, I would leave it alone. Just old phase one.
Bird: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would agree and Ithink -- I think -- I wouldn't even worry about phase two in this
'09 budget, because let's get phase one done and done properly. We are going to be
going into the winter, so you know there is going to be a lot of days we are not going to
be able to do stuff. Any asphalt, after October you're probably not going to have a batch
plant up and running, so --
Siddoway: We are up against the wall.
Rountree: -- you know, let's -- let's get phase one done and, then, fiscal year '10 we
can look at phase two.
Siddoway: I have talked with Stacy Kilchenmann, see if we needed to bring forward
some type of an amendment to be able to borrow these funds. She said no. What I
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need is some formal direction from Council and they can take care of that as an
accounting exercise on their end.
Zaremba: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I move that we move forward with the phase one construction, which
includes temporarily borrowing 150,000 dollars from the land acquisition account and
transferring the expense of 34,372 for Adventure Island to the Adventure Island
account.
Bird: Second.
Rountree: It's been moved and seconded to -- I have a question to the maker of the
motion. Does that also include the stipulation that it be repaid in 2009 to the land --
Zaremba: Yes. That the land acquisition would be repaid in 2009.
Rountree: Okay.
Zaremba: I agree.
Bird: Second agrees.
Rountree: All those in favor of the motion?
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Rountree: Thank you.
Siddoway: I will bring forward next week the amendment for that Adventure Island
account.
(h) Update on Police & Fire Games in August
Rountree: Very good. Bob.
Stowe: Mr. President, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, thanks very much. In
the fall of 2006 I came before you with a proposal about bringing the 2008 Western
States Police and Fire Games to Treasure Valley. And also asked for money, which I
got both, I got your approval and I got money. So, I'm going to come before you tonight
and give you an update as to where we are with the games, how that money was spent,
and where -- where we are. The games are going to be here in a little less than five
weeks and we are very excited still. Our public information has started to go out
regarding the games. We got Channel 12, Fox News, doing PSAs. We are pushing it
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July 15, 2008
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will all the media outlets. We are -- we have a web site that's up and running. It gives
the location of all the events, what the events are. It allows for volunteers to register.
So, everything is -- is on track. The registration is actually picked up in the last month or
so tremendously. We have had a little setback in the amount of participants that we are
going to probably have up here. Originally, it was right around the 5,000 competitor
mark. We, too, are feeling the effects of th_ a gas prices and we are getting a lot of
people that's saying, man, I just can't come up there because of gas prices. So, we
expect to have probably in the range of 2,800 to 3,000 competitors. Still a pretty
significant amount. Some of our events have been canceled due to lack of competitors,
but it hasn't really hurt us a lot, because logistically there was some problems we were
coming up with anyway. Some of the events required a certain standard of referees or
judges. We were going to have to fly them up from out of state, put them up in rooms
and pay for their time and effort. So, really, we are kind of saving some money in that
respect, too. We still have between 40 and 50 events that are planned. I wrote down
five, but I think six will actually be held in Meridian. During that time -- during those six
events the police department is going to have a large presence at those events through
not only uniform personnel, but also through a volunteer system. Community Services
is pretty much going to allow all of their people to work in the different venues
throughout the week, so there will be a big, big police presence there. As far as fire
presence, I do believe that they are also going to have fire uniform personnel at the
games. To kind of tell you what our involvement is as a city -- as a city. We have on
the board of directors, which has been in place since the fall of 2006, we have one fire
department personnel, which is Drew Young. And one police department person, yours
truly. And we have been coordinating this entire thing for, like I said, almost two years
now. We have six sports coordinators or event coordinators, one of which Lieutenant
Colaianni is of the racquetball event. Four come from the police department. Two
come from the fire department. And we have, like I said, a lot of volunteers from the
police, the fire. Parks department is helping us tremendously with helping obtain
venues and equipment for the venues. And, then, even City Hall -- we have recruited
volunteers from City Hall, too. So, we see the whole city becoming involved in this
event. We have several local sponsors that have helped in a big way, such as Idaho
Athletic Club, Harley-Davidson, Roaring Springs, so -- and, then, we have also been
directed through Madam Mayor and Councilman Bird to obtain equipment, gain those
sponsorships, get donations, so we thank you for that. That's been a big help. One of
the big things that we have looked forward to on this, too, is as a -- kind of a recruiting
investment for the police department. And I hope the fire department will look at it, too.
We have been able to secure booths in The Grove, which is where the host hotel is, and
we will man that booth the entire time that it's -- that The Grove will be open, which I
think is 8:00 to 5:00 every day. We will have a police officer in that booth with recruiting
-- a recruiting video and some fliers and someone to really talk up our department and
try and get some people here, get some good officers that want to move up here and
take advantage, like some of us other transplants have. Actually, Lieutenant Colaianni
has been working real hard on putting together the booth, which will have a partition and
a pull down poster -- I don't know what you call it. But pretty impressive. And, like I
said, we are kind of excited about that We want this opportunity to really show our stuff,
both as a community and a city, but also as a police department, too. Just some of the
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July 15, 2008
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special events that are going to occur during that week. We have -- Tuesday night the
Fraternal Order of Police is going to hold a family night at Roaring Springs. Roaring
Springs has given a big discount for us and all the participants. Wednesday -- all day
during the day Wednesday Harley-Davidson is having its 105th anniversary party and
they have invited us to participate in that, so -- and we may even have one of our local
police officer bands playing there. I know they are going to be playing at some other
events, too, which -- Wednesday night we are going to incorporate Alive After Five with
our boxing event, which will be held at The Grove or at the Qwest Arena. And boxing is
the only event that will be held during the nighttime, so we are going to, hopefully, get
the people from Alive After Five to attend boxing. Thursday night we are having -- the
Boise fire and police associations are going to be holding a party on The Grove for all
the competitors and their families and whatever. Again, a band Johnny Law, and some
other band that I think is Ada County Sheriffs Department, will be playing at that event.
So, we are kind of looking forward to maybe to heckle them a little bit. Saturday night
we will have our volunteer appreciation event and that's where all of our volunteers --
we hope to gather them there and show our appreciation. I don't know if it's going to be
a dinner, hors d'oeuvres or whatever, but there will be events going on the entire week.
Some of the events I thought might be interesting for people, including yourselves to
attend, would be -- number one is boxing. That is an awesome thing. The finals will be
held Friday night and we are probably going to make that like a first class event with the
ring announcer we are bringing in from California, I believe, who is a professional ring
announcer. We will have a memorial service for fallen police officers and firefighters.
We hope to bring in this really good honor guard from the state of Washington that's --
not only do they march in and perform -- and post colors, but they actually perform by
twirling rifles and marching in step. They are supposed to be phenomenal. So, we are
trying to get those, too.
De Weerd: Don't ours do that?
Stowe: Yeah. About that -- they twirl the rifles, they just don't catch them.
Zaremba: And they are not allowed to handle them loaded right now.
Stowe: Right. Yeah. Right now they are just using the stick ones. Baseball is going to
be held at Settler's Park, along with flag football. Baseball -- we are going to hold the --
the major portion of the tournament here at Settler's Park. However, the championship
game we are going to have at Hawk's Stadium. So, that gives the competitors and
everyone a little bit of an extra bonus. Softball at Willow Lane. Softball is a big event if
you like that kind of thing, going out and watching -- there should be a lot of good ball
playing out there. And, of course, the police service dogs at our new K-9 facility. That's
going to be something good to come watch, too. The website gives -- I don't have all
the dates and times that these events will be held, but our website does have the dates
and times of all these different events and I don't know if you want to write it down. It's
www.2008wspfg.org.
Zaremba: Say that again, please.
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July 15, 2008
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Stowe: It's 20082wspfg.org.
Zaremba: Thank you.
Stowe: And in conclusion, Ijust -- I want to thank your support and it has helped
tremendously. We feel it. It's something that without your support it would be very
difficult to pull off and because you have shown the support it has lent credence to it
and allowed everyone else within the city to feel comfortable volunteering and getting
involved. So, with that I'd say thank you and if you have any questions I will answer
them.
Rountree: How many teams and participants are we going to fill between your
department and the fire department?
Stowe: I don't know exactly how many. I get every day -- for some reason I don't know
why policemen and especially the firemen sign up late. Okay. Maybe, it's policemen,
too. But every day I get someone coming up to me and saying, hey, I just signed up for
this, just signed up for that, and as a command staff I have to admit we are being a little
bit slow in registering, too. We are probably going to register for the dodge ball event.
De Weerd: Dodge ball.
Stowe: Yeah.
De Weerd: I thought you were a boxer.
Stowe: No. You know, I got tired of hitting guys fists with my face. But we are going to
have quite a few participants and, hopefully, in various different arenas. I know we are
going to have some in wrestling, some in softball, I believe. Football. I don't know what
all we are going to have them in. Even -- possibly even bodybuilding. So, it's -- it's
going to be big, it's going to be a lot of fun, and we are still very excited about it.
Rountree: Great. Thanks, Bob.
Stowe: Thank you.
De Weerd: Mr. President, I guess I'd recommend to you, Bob, if you would -- you and
the chief could do an announcement at the chamber, I think there is probably one or two
chamber members -- or meetings between now and the games. Announce it, let people
know more about it, and encourage participation and give them a heads up. We want to
make sure that our hospitality is the best. Again, we want our community to shine
during these games. And I'm sure Steve -- Steve and his staff are busy readying our
facilities to, again, show our community pride and we want to help with your recruitment.
(j) Discussion of City Clerk's Fee Schedule
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Rountree: Very good. Now, we have Item J, discussion of the City Clerk. Fee
schedule. Is that yours, Bill?
Nary: Mr. President, Madam Mayor, yes, it is. This is really just a heads up. In your
packet you see there is a table. Mrs. Kane from my staff and Ms. Holman have been
working on consolidating all of the fees that the clerk's office charge into a schedule, so
that we can follow the same practice we do with the other fees in the city. Many of
these have --are contained in the ordinances. Some of them aren't. One of the ones in
here that's probably the most significant to all of you that we have talked about for
awhile, is dealing with copying costs. We get -- we get occasional voluminous requests,
we will probably get more voluminous requests for public records in the future and
currently we don't have a schedule to charge for that. So, this will include that. Mrs.
Kane told me that she needed to finalize a few things. Ms. Holman's at a seminar
yesterday and today, so she will be back tomorrow. So, we anticipate probably bringing
an updated discussion to you within the next couple of weeks before we set it for the
public hearing process. So, I just wanted to give you a heads up and this is something
that was getting worked on. This table, if you get a chance to look at it, basically,
unfortunately, many of the license fees the clerks office charge are set by statute, so
they may or may not be really related to what the cost of it is to really prepare that
license or put it out. But some of them are. So, it does, in the table, try to -- try to
capture that data so that you're aware of what we are charging and why and how it
relates to the cost and such. So, anyway, it's not finalized yet. I don't know if Mrs.
Green had any other information, but I think we are ready to bring it back in a few weeks
when we get a few more wrinkles gone out of this. But that was just an update for you.
Item 6: CITY ORDINANCE REVIEW:
(a) Review of Massage Ordinances
Rountree: Thank you. Questions? Item 6. City ordinances. I assume those are yours
as well, Bill.
Nary: Yes. Mr. President, Madam Mayor, I think the one that's -- I wanted to talk about
-- if I can find the right -- the city ordinance -- oh, with regard to the massage ordinance.
There has been a request by a citizen -- it's in your packet -- regarding our massage
license and they, actually, are asking for an exemption, but they don't qualify for an
exemption. The requester -- if I can find her name real quick. Under our city's massage
license it lists people that can be exempt and, basically, it's for doctors, medical
professionals, nurses, things like that. The person in here, she wrote a letter and she
was requesting an exemption, because she gets requests from parents to allow their
athletes to get -- they want their athletes to be able to get I guess deep tissue massages
and she's located over near Mountain View High School and I guess that's part of her
clientele. Our city ordinance doesn't allow it, so she's asking for an exemption,
although, again, it doesn't qualify for that, we can either create an exemption, which I
think may be difficult to enforce, or we can amend the ordinance to allow minors, with
Meridian City Council Special Meeting/Workshop
July 15, 2008
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the permission of the parents, to receive these types of massages. I don't have a
particular preference. I certainly am not going to comment on massages. So, I think all I
could do when we were presented this letter -- I think it went to the Mayor's office
originally and contact was made through the clerk's office to this lady that what we
would have to do is bring it in front of you and your direction, if that's what you'd like us
to do to prepare an amendment to the ordinance to allow this type of activity.
Rountree: Comments?
Bird: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Bill, the only question I have got is do we -- a minor in -- accompanied by a parent
-- because if it's a note, you know, neighbor kids can write a lot of excuse notes. Been
there, done that when I was a kid, so I -- how do we -- how do we control them? That's
my biggest concern. I know -- I know the situation out there and from what I have heard
from some of the people, she does a real good job with the kids and stuff and there is
nothing bad about it.
Nary: Mr. President, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Bird,
the requestor's name is Valerie Pavalas and certainly whenever -- if the Council's
direction is to bring it -- bring back an amendment that you can review, we can certainly
fashion it any way you want. My honest opinion is a majority of these types of licenses
are sort of hold overs historically from bad practices and bad behaviors that may have
occurred a number of years ago. Certainly this particular profession has progressed
more so. But even when we consider recently we repealed a couple of licenses that we
didn't find that were even practical any longer to enforce, like the ones for arcades and
such. When I had a discussion with Ms. Holman, she was concerned if we were to
simply repeal this entirely -- because there is the potential that this can become a very
inappropriate activity in the community and certainly if you want to direct that we require
that a parent be present -- a parent or guardian be present with the minor, we can
certainly fashion it that way and that's more than what we have today.
Bird: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Follow up on that, Bill. I think that's a great idea, but I also see a problem with
that in the atmosphere of today where so many -- both parents work and most kids --
especially with the location of her clientele, probably go there after practice at sports or
after school and it's short there, it's not as if they have to go across town. I don't know
how -- that's what we pay for --
Meridian City Council Special Meetinglworkshop
July 15, 2008
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Nary: Well, we could certainly kick that around with the clerk's office and maybe with
the police department and figure out a proposal that we could -- we could live with from
an enforcement standpoint, because that's really the key.
Rountree: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I might suggest that there be a written form, but it not be brought in by the
child, but a parent does have to appear in person, sign the form, then, they could keep
that form on file for subsequent visits, but -- visits. But a parent would have to at least
show up one time to sign the form in the presence of the masseuse or staff or whatever
there is.
Bird: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Bill, I definitely do not want to lose this license. I mean I think we have to keep
these established -- establishments licensed and -- and so I believe we have to have an
amendment to it. I don't think you just scrap the license.
Nary: Well, Mr. President, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I will work with the
police department and the clerk's office and we will come up with a proposal and, then,
bring back that as a department report here in a few weeks. I'll get in touch with Ms.
Pavalas and tell her we are working on this process and we will see what we can do.
I'm assuming, again, partly because she's -- her business line is directed towards
athletes, probably if we can get something maybe in place before school starts or at
least the beginning as part of the school year, that might be of some benefit to her. So,
we will work on this quickly and bring it back in front of you here just as quickly as we
can.
Bird: Thank you.
De Weerd: Mr. President?
Rountree: Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: I like Councilmen Zaremba's idea, if that helps.
Nary: Yeah. I think at least if we have some way to show that the parent at least at one
point was physically there, so that way there is some proof that the parent had
consented to that activity would make some sense. We will just figure out how we can
make that make sense for our end. Thank you.
Rountree: Thank you.
(b) Licensing Ordinance Amendments
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Nary: Mr. President, the other one that's on the agenda --
Rountree: Licensing ordinance amendments.
Nary: Other licensing --
Rountree: It says license ordinance amendments.
Nary: I don't know what that is.
Rountree: It's probably a sub of the one above.
Nary: It could have been: It could have just been regarding -- if there was anything
else. But I don't have any other licensing ones that we were considering at the time,
so --
Zaremba: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Since we don't know what that refers to, maybe I can make something up
that I can ask a question about.
Nary: Certainly.
Zaremba: I do not have any pet animals, but am I right that people with dogs are
required to re-license them every year?
Nary: Yes.
Zaremba: Is there some rationale behind that?
Nary: Well, certainly to keep track of -- to keep track of the number of animals, because
-- I don't know of any -- I don't know of very many places, at least in Idaho, that don't -- if
they require licensing, that they don't require it annually. So, it is just a common
practice to make sure to keep track of the number of animals in a residence. You can
only have a limited number of animals within the city limits per residence. I guess those
are probably to two biggest reasons, just to make sure that the dog is -- usually you
have to accompany it in many places with rabies certificates or ways to track dogs,
since those are the ones we are out catching out in the street more than we are snakes
-- snakes, you know, guerillas, everything else we talked about before. So, that's the
other reason, just to make sure that the dog and the animals still match up if we were to
catch that animal out of their property, then, we would have a way to track where it
belonged to.
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July 15, 2008
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Green: Mr. President. Mr. Nary, on that last item, on the licensing ordinance
amendments, Emily submitted that for the deletion of fees from the ordinances
regarding the schedule and also she did a draft ordinance for the massage.
Nary: Okay. Is that -- I didn't see that in the material. We had a discussion about it, I
just didn't see it in the material. So, we can bring -- we will meet with the police on that
and I think, as we talked about Council, if we bring it back in a schedule form, then, we
will take those little provisions out of every ordinance, so that we can match up the fees
in one place, rather than have to amend every ordinance every time we amend the. fees.
Rountree: That's an excellent idea.
Bird: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Can I -- I got a couple things I'd like to mention, if I could.
Rountree: Go right ahead.
Bird: First of all, I had the privilege of throwing out the first ball at the Babe Ruth and
little league state tournament. I wish Steve was still here. I'm very, very proud as a
citizen of Meridian to be able to see 18 teams with probably 15 of them from out of town
throughout the state come in and get to play in that nice facility. I'm very -- I'm very,
very proud of what Meridian Youth Baseball, who Mr. Rountree was one of the first guys
that started that and the Layton family have done out there, along with the help of the
city and I -- I just think that that is a facility that everyone of us in this community can be
proud of and we have got a lot of kids getting to be able to use it. My second thing is
we have got a fire chief and an association -- fire association that wanted to make sure
our chili cook off and their salmon feed was done a little more first class, so they went
up there and they are pouring concrete and working under the covered patio at the dairy
show barns. Ron raised the money -- or the -- and the police association. And the
volunteers were all up there doing it. I just -- when associations within the city and like
Bob and Stephanie, who I know worked real hard on the police and fire games, step
forward and stuff, I -- I just think that's a real asset for the City of Meridian and for the
employees. I'm very proud of both things.. I think everybody that's done this -- because
this is what we built Meridian on was volunteerism and I hope we keep it that way.
Thank you, guys.
Rountree: Thank you very much. We need to recognize that in some fashion. Plaque.
Ceremony. Some such. You got that handled?
De Weerd: Yep..Don't you, Robert.
Rountree: Any other comments? Workshop items that are not on the agenda? We
have one more motion, then.
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July 15, 2008
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Zaremba: So moved.
Bird: Second.
Rountree: Motion to adjourn. All those in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Rountree: We are adjourned.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 10:12 P.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PRO~FEDINGS)
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