HomeMy WebLinkAbout1985 06-03!
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A G E N D A
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL
June 3, 1985
ITEM:
MINUTES OF PREVIOUS MEETING HELD MAY 20, 1985:
1: ORDINANCE # 449: ANNEXATION & ZONING OF FENSTERMAKER PROPERTY:
FINDINGS OF FACT & CONCLUSIONS ON FENSTERMAKER VARIANCE REQUEST:
APPROVAL OF VARIANCE REQUEST BY LEROY RENSTERMAKER:
APPROVAL OF CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR LEROY FENSTERMAKER:
2: APPROVE THE BILLS:
3: PRE-TERMINATION HEARING WATER/SEWER/TRASH DELIQUENCIES:
4: PUBLIC HEARING REQUEST FOR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AMENDMENT BY CLAREMONT
DEVELOPMENT COMPANY:(DECISION TO BE MADE AT 5:00 P.M. MAY 31,1985
WHETHER HEARING TO BE HELD)
5: DEPARTMENT REPORTS:
NOTE: THIS MEETING TO BE HELD AT MERIDIAN PRIMARY SCHOOL:
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P~I~P.IDII~,I~1 CITY COUTJCIL I~~lEETIPIG
I1~1 RL: Rccqu~~t far Compr~hensive )
Plan Am~nc~m~nt by Clarem~nt )
U~;v~lopr.~e~nt Com~any )
)
~~rQ,PE
I-3ERIDIIIIT CITY COUPICIL
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l~a~e : June 3, 1 c~5
7 : 30 Y~, r:~.
Place: C•I~ridi~n Primary School
~~ c~a~st st~t~ s`tr~et
I~Icric~ian, Idaha ;3707
COPIPU^iERIZED T~2AT^1SCP.IPTIOPI EY
TUCF:~R & ASSOCIATES
605 ti~~est I'or~ Stree~, Boise, Ic7aho v3702
( 20 u) 345-37 0 ~
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ti_1 I'~' Pd E S S~ S
t^7itn~ss Paae
1. Phil Davic~son 10
2. Y3i11 Palk l~
3. Richard Orton 22
~. Phil Han54n 27
5. Fr~d Bruning ~8
G. Duain~ Rasmussen 45
7. Davic~ L~wis 50
~. G~orge VaUil 5~
~. ~ob~rt Davis 57
10. I~iarvin Boc~in~ 63
11. G~ra1d ~'.uyf 65
12. Berrr~:r~ F:insey 6B
13. Delbc~rt P~Z~tlock 71
14. Ch~ryl r~7atlock 72
1~. John ScYrr;~~k 73
1G. Patricia ~uyf 74
17. Patrick IIarbert ~ 77
1~'. F.~vin .abe.rtson 79
1~. I-~owzrd Fc~1ey 86
20 . ~c~bbi L ~yn~ 92
21. ~tab~r~ G~:,s 94
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F~d I T P1 E S 5 E S
~~~itn~s;es (Continuec~
22. Lelanc~ I~ans~n 95
23. Steven S~art 97
2~. I~enny Bow~rs 10 ~
25. S~.~ve Grattan 107
2G. Dick ~~illianla 108
27. L~,eslc~e Ho~lst 112
2~. 1~1 fiarscien 115
2~. Alan Lance 119
30. St~ve Ancl~rson 123
31. vvris 0liason 124
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T~3ERIDIAt1, IDAHO
~ionday, Jun~ 3, 1~ t35 , 7: 30 p. m.
fl2t~Y0R KIi1GSFORD: Those of you standing, I
apologize. There are some seats available, but could
we have it qui~~ anci we' 11 praceed with the hearing.
It looks like w~ might b~ here a few minu~e5.
y~~e'll start the meeting with the clerk
calling ro11.
f~TR. P~~I~P~TAT~1Pd; Councilman Brewer?
T}~1R. BF~EV7EP: Here.
t~1~Y0R I.Ir1G5FORD: Councilman Tolsma?
T1R. TOLSt•IA: Her~.
T~IAYOR F:INGSFORD: Councilrnan f{Tyers?
t:~?R. I~YERS : Her e.
P~IR. NIET~IF~NT~3: Councilman Giesler?
T~~Ft. GIESLER: Here.
~~i~YOR KIT~IGSFORD: I' m here, too, Jack.
r~7R. P~IE~lAt1~d: Par~on me, t•~r. i~7ayor.
T~SAYOR ~:I1~IGSFORD: The f irst thing on the agenda
is th~ approval of the minutes of th~ ~~revious meeting
h~^ld t~n I~~ay 20, 1985. Are there any corrections,
ac~ditions or dele'tions?
(I3o response.)
I~3R. I~fIYEFtS: I move to accept the minutes.
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£~~IF . B R Et~~ E R: I se c o n c{ .
t~AYOR KIrIGSFORD: It has been moved and seconded
to accept th~ minutes. All in favor?
(All respond aye. )
T~SAYOR ~:INGSFORD: Opposea?
(Na response.>
PIAYOR KINGSFORD: Nlo~.ion carries. The next item
on the agenc~a is Ordinanc~ PJo. 4~9: Annexation & Zoning
of F~nstermakc~r property. This was heard at the last
me~ting. ~~1~ now have th~ minutes available.
This is an ordinance annexing and zoning
c~rtain r~al property which is described as part of the
nartheast on~-quarter of the southeast one-quarter,
S~ction 11, 7'ownshi~ 3, an~i north range one west,
Bnise, I~ericlian, Ada County, Iaaho, and providing for
an ~f ~ective c~ate.
Would anyone in the public li}-,e the
Ordir~ance ~~9 reac~ in its entirety?
(I~Io response.)
P~IR. BREWER: ~4r. T~ayor, I would make a motion
ta approve of Orc~inance No. 4~9 which includes
annescation anc~ zoning f or the Fenstermaker issue, that
the rules anct provisions of 50-902 and rules and
pravisions rec~uiring the orainances be read under three
s~parate e~ays b~ dispensec~ with. Anc! that ordinance
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P~Ia. ~~~ be ~~asseet and approvec~.
t~iF:. TOLS~iA: I second it.
~~IAYOR KIT~IGSFORD: It has been maved and seconded
~o ~pprr~ve of Ordinance i1o. 4~~, as mentioned to the
rules of south line (phonetic) . All in favor?
(~11 respond aye.)
P~ZAYOR KIr~1GSFORD: Oppos~d?
(No r~spanse.)
~~TAYOR KI~IGSFORD: t~2otion carries. Next item on
the agenda i~ to a~prove of the findings of fact and
conclusions ot ~.aw on the Fenstermaker varianc~
r~quest.
MR. TOLSt41A: NIr. P~~ayor, I move the approval of
findings of fact and conclusians of law on the variance
rec~u~at nf I'enst~:rmaker.
PiF.. BitEU7 EI~ : I se co nd .
T~1AYO.R KIP~GSFORD: I~ has been moved and seconc]ed
to approve af the variance, findings nf fact and
conclusions of 1aw. ~~~Ie'll have our roll call.
Cnuncilman Giesler?
t~1P.. GIESLE£t; ror.
T~2AYOFt &~IPIGSFORD: t~~yers?
t~IR. I~IYERS: Y~s.
I~~AYOR KIi~GSFORD: Tolsma?
c~R. ToLSr~7A: yes.
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~IAYQR IC221GSFORD: Brew~r?
MR. BREWER: Yes.
1+~AYOR KINGSFORD: t~~otion carries. Next item on
~h~ agenda is --
P~1R. BREWER: t~Zr. Playor, I make a motion to
a}~prove the variancc requested by Leroy Fenstermaker.
P~IAYOR ~:IP~IGSFORD: Is there a second?
r~R. TOLSMA: Second.
P~ZAYOR KIPdGSFORD: It has been moved and seconded
to approve of th~ variance for Leroy Fenstermaker. A11
tho~e in favar?
(All respond aye. )
P~ZI~YOR KINGSFORD: Opposed?
( Nn respons~. )
F~IAYOR KIPJGSFORD: T~Zotion carries.
I~IR. GIESLER: t=~r. i~laynr.
T~41~YOR KIt~GSFORD: t•~1r. Giesler?
t~~iF~. GIESLER: I would lik~ to state for the
r+~cnrd that an~ of the main reasons I approved that
variance was that T~Zr. Fenstermaker had his business
there for son~e time before it was lost in the fire.
And I waulcl recommend to the council that on further
a~plications that we pay real close att~ntion to our
r~sidential ar~as of further applications coming in.
I think that wc really need to -- we have a
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1ot of anne.. anc3 zonec7 praperty all r~aay to ga. And I
think that we n~~d to try to promote our business areas
to thos~ ar~as. And I just feel that we really need to
ke~~ our residential areas as residential as we can.
t2R. EiI2~WER: I would suppart that statement
wholeheartec~ly.
P~TAYOR KIP~GSFORD: I certainly agree with you,
Councilman Giesler.
Th~ last item with regara to the
Fenstermaker proposal is to approve of the conditional
use ~ermit for allowing that in a residential area. Do
we have a mo~ion?
t~IP.. I~~YERS: I make a motion we approve that,
al ~o.
P~IR. TOLST-3A: Secondi.
t•1I~YOR KINGSFORD: It has be~n moved and s~conded
to approve of the condi~ional use permit requested by
Leroy F~n~termaker. Prior to a vote on that -- is
t~Ir. Fenstermak~r here?
r~2~. Frras~E~r:AZ,ER: Yes, z am.
f~iAYOR KIrdGSFORD: Leroy, I would like to remind
you again, as we discussed in my office, that there are
conditions ~that apply to that conditional use permit
and w~ ~xpect tha't you will honor those. And recognize
that if they ar~ nat honored, th at the co nditional use
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p~rmit coula be~ pulled at anytime.
I~lR. FEPISTERNIAK~R: Yes.
P~~AYOR KIPIGSFORD: Could we have a vote, then, to
move and s~conc3 to approve?
I~1R. GIESLER; Aye.
T1R. TOLST~IA: Aye.
I>IAYOR F:II~TG SFORD :
Do you want a roll call?
Fob?
MR. GIESLER: For.
I~IAYOR IZINGSFORD:
T~~R. BREL~IER: Y~:~.
P~IAYOR KING SFORD :
P~IR. TOLStt°lA: Yes.
I~iAYOR KIPdGSFORD:
Bert?
Ron?
Bill?
T~IR . B~t EL~1 E P: Y e 5.
t•Z1~YOR KINGSFORD: Motion carri~s.
D1ext item on the agenda --
t~i~. GI~SLER: Mr. T~iayor, I would like to
apologize to F~2r. Fenstermaker far all the hard times he
dic~ hav~:. He had an awful struggle through a lot of
legal things that hac7 to happen and I just want to
apologize to him.
I know it has been very taugh on him
physically and nlentally, and I hope that he
und~rstancis. I'm sure he do~sn't with all the things
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tha~ had to happen. But I want to wish him well in his
bu~in~ss.
i~SAYOF. KI~JGSFORD: I' d certainly add to that,
t1r. F~nstermaker. Good luck on your business, and we
apoloqize for the red tape. The legislature says that
that is nec~ssary, so it is necessary. Good luck.
A1ext item on the agenda is to approve
bills.
i~~R. GIESLER: I move the approval of the bills.
i~IR. TOLSr~A: Second.
I~ZAYOR KItJGSFORD: It has been moved and seconded
to apprave the bi11s. All in favor?
(All respond aye.)
142AY0R KINGSFORD: Opposed?
(No res~onse.)
P~2AYOR KIPIGSFORD: t~~otion carries.
The next item is the pre-termination
hearing. This is to inform you in writing that if you
choose to, you have th~ right to a pre-termination
h~aring set at 7:30 p.m., June 3 before the mayor and
councilmen to appear in person to be juc3ged on facts
and claims made by the city that your sewer, trash and
water is c3elinquent. You may retain counsel and the
s~rvice shal]. be discontinued June 11, 1985, at
~:00 ~.rn. unl~~s payment is received in full.
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Is there anyone from the public wha wishes
to co n~est th~ir sewer and water and trash
cielinc~uenci~s?
(Na response.)
MAYOR KINGSFORD: Due to their failure to pay
their water bill or present a valid reason why their
bill has not bEen paid, th~ir water wi1]. be turned off
June 11, 1985. In order to have their water turned
b~ck an there will be an additional fee of $1Q.
They are hereby informed they can make an
app~al or have the decision reviewed by the 4th
Judicial Court for same timE imposed even though their
water has bcen shut off. The amounts for the record of
the delinquencies far ~.his month is $3,549.70.
Do we have a motion to carry the turn aff
1i~t?
c~IR. TOLSt~~A: I' d mov~.
P~IR. Bi2Eti^]~R: I seconcl.
I~lAYOR KINGSFORD: It has been moved and secondec3
to ~approve the turn off list. All thase in favor?
(All r~s~and aye.)
P~~AYOR I{IP3GSFORD: Opposeci?
( tJo response. )
t~iAYOR F:IP3GSFORD: fWiotion carries.
Next item on the agenda is th~ one to do
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with th~ ~uc~ience. Have we rsceived the testimony --
t~I1~. NIE~ At1r1: P4r. nTayor, before we start I have
twa items here to enter in the recorc~.
1:1~Y0R KIPIGSFORD: Okay. At this time I will
o~en ~h~ public h~~~,ring on the request for the
com~~r~hensive plan am~nc~nlcnt by Clarer~ant Developmen't
Com~~any.
Unc~er ~th~ pravisiorls t~iat we operate now in
t~rr~~, of public hearing Ordinance IIo. 446, certain
proc~c~u~es ~vi11 bt followea. Each person asking to
giv~ t~: timony wil l be sworn in as to tk~ei r-- taking
an aa~h on ~heir testimany. Tha~t will b~ administered
by th~ ci~y attorney who is a nctary public.
The developers, bath pro and co n on this
is~ue, w~ wxll be somewhat lax in allowing you that
time y~u'll need. Hop~fully you will keep your remarks
at a reasonabl~ l~vel.
Individuals who would Iik~ to offer public
testinmony, l~t's ~ry anc~ keep it to thre~ minutes,
p1 ~ase.
At this time I'll open the public hearing.
Jack, r~a you wr~nt ta introciuce th~ information we have
receiv~d?
rriR. Y~IET~3~P1N: Yes, r~1r. t4ayor. I have a letter
her~ from Frank T~iartin of 2180 Cacfillac Drive,
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t~~~r~ric3ian, Idaho, who supports the ma11 at Eag1e Roac3.
I al so h~ve a-- I do n' t know what you' d
call it here
f~1AY0R KIAIGSFORD: Nice stationery.
tWIR. NIEMANII: -- nice stationery that supports
the sentiments of Councilman Foley.
~~SR. f~iYERS: Thank you, Jack. I think it
probably woulcl be well if we' d begin the hearing with
T~ir. Davidson from Claremont, please, Phil.
PH IL DAV IDS ON ~
havi.ng been f irst duly swarn, gave the following
sta~tem~nt :
MR. DAVIDSOII: f~2r. t~7ayor, members of the
council, once again I'm Phil Davidson, Claremont
Development Com~any, Bellevue, Washington.
r~4AYOFt ICINGSFORD: Phil, that is not very loud.
If you could stand --
tiR. DAVIDSON: Phil Davidson, Claremont
D~velopment Company, Bellevue, ~tlashington.
I have with me tonight some team members
that I would like to introduce to you. First I think
it would be only appropriate to describe the developing
~n!tities tanight that I'm going to be introducing to
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you.
I am a shopping c~nter developer from
ti•~ashington, and I have hac3 the Eagle Road site under
option on a long-term option since July of 1983.
In December of 19II4 I entered into a
partnership agreement with ~he John Price Development
Comp~ny out of ~al t Lake City. And -- can' t hear?
A VOICE ; Can you speak up, please? We can' t
hear you bacis here.
t~iR. DAVIDSON: All right. I can speak louder.
I have had the Eagle Road site under option on a
long-'term o~ation situation since July of 1983. And in
Decemb~r of 1984 I entered into a partnership agreement
with th~ John Price Development Company out of Salt
Lake City. Sn you' 11 be h~aring f rom both of the -- of
the developing entitie~ tonight.
The speaker behind me will be Bill Polk,
our project architect from Seattle. And after Bill
will be Rich Orton who is a partner in the firm of
Taothm~n-Orton, which I'm ~ure a lnt of you are
familiar with.
And then we have an economic consultant
h~re tonight, Phil Hansan, who will speak next. And
then we have two people from Price Development Company.
Fr~d Bruning who is the vice-president and in charge of
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th~ir Los Angeles operation. And Duaine Rasmusse n, who
is vice-president in charge of site acquisition.
We're h~re tonight to request an amendment
to the camprehensive plan. To secure such an
amendment, we have to show that there are conditions
that have taken place since the last plan was put in
eff~ct to warrant such a change.
Anc~ I think after you hear what we have to
say tonight, you will agr~e that there have been
changes in the canditions here in t~Ieric3ian.
We realize that there are some very touchy
issue~, tfiings such as tax revenue, utilities, police
and fire protection and whatnot which will need a lot
of further negotia~ting between the city and the
dev~loper.
So we' re not looking for any kind of
approval to our rezoning and annexata.on applications,
but rather tonight just to move forward with the change
in the comprehensive plan.
~~e would also like to be s~t on a positive
course as far as our findings of fact and conclusions
of law are concerned.
Our application stated that we would be
willing to enter into an annexation agreement with the
ciity before any kinr~ of rezoning or annexation approval
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would be grantec~, And we are willing to stick by that.
But we also urge you to agree with us that time is of
~he essence here. And we' re ready to move forward.
We have don~ our homework, as you will see
tonight. And we want to get an affirmative nod from
the city council. And with that we feel that we can
jaintly pull this whole thing together without putting
the project at risk.
You have heard me several times before
singing the praises of Eagle Road. I'm a firm believer
in i~. I have been working in this area now since 1982
anr3 the rninute I saw Eagle Road, I felt that it was a
na tu r al .
But let me just give you
highlights as -- sorry. Let m~ just
highliqhts as I see them. 110 acres
accommodate a mall of over a million
we feel the Treasure Valley not only
t'~ES~rV(:S.
some of the
give you some
large enough to
square feet which
needs, but
T~7e're locatec3 on a major east-west freeway
provic~ing trem~ndous exposure to people traveling to
and frorn Boise. We're situated in the geographic
center of the papulation. In our trade area, which
will run out many miles, we seem to have as many people
west of us as we ~ave east.
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~~e took a count within a 30 mile driving
time and we have 100,000 p~ople on the east side of us
and 90,000 peo~le on the w~st side of us. These are.
people that can get to us within 30 minutes. So we
feel that we' re right in the heart of the action.
~ve will saon have a new freeway interchange
out there which wiZ]. provide ease of ingress and egress
to the cen~.er without clagging some already overtaxed
county arterials.
A soon to be improved Eagle P.oacl running
narth-south will provide alternate access for people
living in t~ieridian. Thereby alleviating the congestion
that -- and parking problems that could occur on the
main downtown business streets in Meridian.
t~~ have a good clean annexation route. One
that will cl~arly square off and define I`leridian's
westerly city limits. And as you can gather, I really
believe that Eagle Road has it all and a little more.
We' re now hooked up with a develnper that
has a proven track record. John Price has built and
op~ned 13 regional malls and they are, right now, as
~ctive as any major developer in the country, with
another 10 on their drawing boards.
With experience like this, the city should
feel confident that tough problems such as utilities
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and fire and police protection can be worked out to
everyUne's satisfaction.
The Price Com~any has been through all of
this before, so the challenge presented to them now is
nat foreign to them by any stretch of the imagination.
And lastly, but far from least, we have to
talk about maj or tenants. I don' t think that there is
any developer, and you have seen a lot of them around
here, or gov~rnmental official, either in Boise or
t~ieridian who would deny that the major tenants plainly
anc~ simply call the shots.
They banded together amongst themselves,
anc] that is important ~o them. They don't want to
split u~ and fragmen~ the market. And they decide
where they want to locate and then they stick
steadfastly to the commitment that they make either to
a particular d~v~loper or a particular site.
In this case it happened to be a developer.
And her~ is where I be~.ieve that John Price scores an A
plus again. These department stores, as you have found
with the letters that we have presented and telephone
calls that have b~~n made, plain and simply like to do
business with tne Price Company.
I know from experience that this is true.
B~for~ I formed Claremont Develapment Company, I was
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wi~th a very substantial developmen~ company in
Californi~. One that we liked to think was every bit
~s goor7 as John Price.
I spe nt two years trying to break the
tenants away from John and bring ~hem down to
Eag1e Road, which I was convinced was the right place,
and I had no success at a11. So enter John Price and
here we are before you tonight to talk about Eagle. So
it shaws the strength that thei r company has with the
nlajo.rs.
t~e have opposition here ~onight, I realize
that. And I'd call it plenty of opposition and good
opposition. Yau have valid concerns -- that when we
talk about a project of this magnitude -- can
justifiably turn to fears. •
And if we're allowed to take our next step
and move forward in this whole process, we would like
to sit docvn with each and evcry one of you who would be
interested in ~t~lking to ua and see if we can't
overcame and allevia.te those fears.
And just for my benef it, as you march to
th~ podium tonight, I would hope that you would give me
an inc3icatian as to whether there is any better site
than ~agl~ Road to place a regional mall.
I think there are about seven choices right
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now, and I'm a true believer in this one. Thank you.
I would like to present for the record to
the city clerk som~ supplemental information to our
application. That has not been reviewed by the
council, Jack. So any extra copies you need, we'll be
sure anct g~t th~m ta you.
P~IAYOR KIPJGSFORD: rlr. Davidson, would it be too
much to ask for a copy of your agreement with the Price
Company? You are the applicant, but a lot of this
applicatinn i~ hinging an their performance. I'd like
to see that, if I can.
t~iR. DAVIDSOPI: There is a lot of economic issues
in there that would prabably have to be whited out.
Eut as far as I'm concerned, I think that we could go
ahead and pravide that.
PTAYOR KIidGSFORD: All right. Go ahead with your
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introduction.
r4R. DAVIDSON: VJith that, Iy c~ like to introduce
you tn Bill Polk.
ti~. GIESLER: ~Zr. ~~layor, I'd like to ask him one
question.
P~i1~Y0~ KINGSFORD: Go ahead.
T~IR. GIESLE~2: How many malls has Claremont
them~elves developed?
t~iR. DAVTDSON: Claremont is a brand new company,
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Bob, it has only been in operation for seven months.
Befare that I was with the ~utter Hill Company out of
Pala Al~o, California, and I was the northwest regional
inanager for them.
And they have been in business since 1960.
~hey are r~nk~d as the 26th largest cleveloper in the
country. Anci they have don~ many community sites and
r~gianal ma11s.
T~SR. GIESLER: Sutter Hill is in where?
t~1R. DAVIDSON: Palo Alto, California.
I~IAYOR ~:IP~IGSFORD: ti^das there other questions?
I~iR. GIESLER: No. Thank you.
~^7ILLIA~~1 POLK,
having b~en first duly sworn,
statement:
t~1R. POLK: I have got
'ta get a little bit eloser to
talk tonight, for my part of
of what a regional mall would
site.
gave th~ following
a drawing here, I'd like
it. I' d 1 ike to j ust
it, about the architecture
be like on the Eagle Road
~.Che drawing that you see before you depicts
a two-l~v~l shapping center with six major department
stores. The developer is not saying that they are
going ito open th~ c~:nter with six major department
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stores, but with four probably and woula have an
apportunity to op~n a fifth and sixth in the future.
But the site will definitely hold six
majors. For those of you in the audience that have not
had a chanc~ to look at the drawing before the meeting,
~the darker brown areas are the major department stores,
the yellowish-brown are the shops, shop areas, and
the -- this area up here, the slightly different colar
is a convenience shopping center.
6ahen we talk about a two-level mall, there
is one secret to making them function that everybody
shaulc~ be aware of. And those of you that did come up
befor~hand would see that there are some words noted on
here "high, low, high, low."
And that refers ic~ the sculpturing of the
graunci that has ta take place to make a two-level
center wnrk, because the object is to get people to
enter the mall at both levels, at the lower level and
the upp~r level.
Sn even though you have a two-level mall
~nci ~wo-1eve1 department stores on one side, it is only
on~ level, on the other side of the department store it
would ba two levels, as would be illustrated here.
Low, so it woulci be two stories from this side and high
would be one l~vel from that side. It is a fully
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spr inkl ~c~ mal l .
A lot can happen between now and the final
construction of the mall because of the desires of
r:~ajor departmerrt stores which can change the
conf iguration, but we have at least shown for ourselves
that it does wark.
The way we have d~picted the use of the
site wauld indicate a rinq road within the boundary
which would control the major traffic flow on the site
rather than having that on the city streets. We have
an access to Franklin Rnad. ~~Te have two places of
access onto Eagle Road.
One right about in the middle and one at
this edge. This one provicles us a free-turning -- or
free-flowing right turn coming off I-84. There is no
light to stop them and they, can come right in, which
would k~ep from having traffic jams at that
intersection.
And w~ are studying this and we'll work
further with the ci~y to get sufficient backup space to
k~:ep cars on the sit~ when they are exiting -- when
they h~ve a light there and they're trying to exit
ciuring peak hours.
Also available on the site are places for
what you see are blue places which could be other
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businesses of a variety of kinds that would normally b~
found around a regional shopping center. I mentionea a
co nveni~nce center up here.
A convenience center is simply the kind of
a center that people c7rive to, run in, get something
and it may be a dry cleaner, it may be a hardware
stare, it may be some business like that, drug store,
cvhere people just come because they want to run into
that store and leave again. It is for their
convenience; whereas, the regional shopping center is
there fnr comparison shopping for people going to store
to store to find the best price anc3 the best quality
that they are looking for.
The site will hold about 5,000 cars. And
it will hald about 1100 square feet -- I'm sorry,
1,100,000 square feet of shopping space in the center.
And with that, t~2r. ~~iayor, and members of
the council, if there are any questions of ine,
atherwise, that would conclude my testimony.
T~IAYOR KING SFORD : Que sti ons?
(1~o respanse. )
P~IAYOR KIT~dGSFORD: None.
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1 RICf~ARD ORTOrd~
2 having been first duly sworn, gave the follawing
3 statement:
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5 PdR. O~tTOP1: 1~2y name is Richard Orton, I' m with
~ Toothman-Orton Engineering in Boise.
*
7 A VOICE: Can't hear you.
a P~~R. ORTON: Thank you. My name is
9 Richard Orton. I'm with Toothman-Orton Engineering
~ 10 Company in 33oise. I have been on retainer with the
11 Claremonit and Price Develpoment companies to provide
12 consulting services with regard to utilities and
~ 13 roadway design associated with the mall.
14 ~ Tonight I'm h~re to present a couple
15 arawinc~s, anc~ I' ].1 bring them up so I can be closer to
~ 16 th~m. Thank you.
17 First of all, very briefly, we have
l~ c~esigned a water-sewer cancept that attach~s our
~ 19 development to existing city utilities. That concept
20 has b~en developed over about four years and has been
21 review+~c~ with the public works folks here in Meridian.
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22 And i feel the concept is firm enough at this point to
23 where we can just allow you to laok at the drawings ancl
24 go pn to other important information such as traffic.
~ 2 5 The tr af f ic -- the most impor tant tr af f ic
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~ 1 aspect associated with this mall is the work that is
2 now uncierway by the Idaho Department of Transportation
3 in the area of t~e interchange at Eagle Road. They
i 4 hav ~ be u n tw o
g projects, bath scheduled for this fiscal
5 year. And in direct terms, that means that they intend
6 to pu~ them out into bid yet this calendar year and
~ 7 perhaps even start construction on these two projects.
8 The first project is a major interchange on
9 I-84. It is an interchange with the same geometry as
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10 our i~~ericli~n Road interchange, except all the lanes are
11 bigger; they are a11 three-lane roads.
12 Furthermore, the project includes five-lane
~ 13 widening of Eagle Road from Overland to Franklin Road.
14 Again, that is one project scheduled to bid this year.
15 The curren~ plans are five lanes in
~ 16 Eagle Raad anc7 the future plans in light of the
17 acquisition at this time is for seven lanes.
18 The overpass itself wi11 be constructed for
~ 19 seven lanes at this time. Plans for completion of that
20 project are in 19a8, in the fall of 19a8. And the
21 ~unciing for that program is the Federal Highway
~ 22 Administration ancl state funds in a mixture. I can't
23 specify what the mixture is; it varies. '
2~ In order to accommodate the mall location
~ 25 I we have spoken with the Idaho Department of
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1 Transportation and hav~ requesteci consideration on ~two
2 items, both of which they approachec~ favorably.
3 First of all, we asked if we might arrange
4 to have ~he full running -- free-running right, excuse
5 me, off the westbound lane of I-84 so that people could
6 enter the mall without stnpping. That right lane, if
7 it is alloweci, will be fr~~ of stop signs and will be
~ fr~~ of weavinq from other lanes.
9 Furthermore, we have asked for two
10 entrances on Eagle Roac~. They have asked us to put the
I1 two entrances at the northern extremity of our
12 property, appro~.imately 300 feet into the property and
13 approximately 100 feet into the property. That is
14 because there is a r~stricted construction zone coming
15 off the interstat~ they won't let us have access on.
16 The second project I'ci like to talk about
17 is ag~in the Idaho Department of Transportation; that
1$ ~raj~ct goes fram Franklin Road to Fairview. Again,
1~ wid~ning of Eagl~ Raac~ to f ive lanes, plan for seven
20 lan~s.
21 That project is also in this fiscal year's
22 buc3get and will also be bic3 this fiscal year and should
23 also b~ com~aleted before the fall of 19~8.
2a~ The third ~roj~;ct of immediate concern that
25 th~ Iclaf~a Transportation ~~~.artment is considering is
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1 ~h~ wiaening of Eagl~ F:oact i rom Fai rview to Chinclen.
2 "i'hat is ach~duled in their 19~8/19E~ budget. And the
3 plan is less sp~cific for it. It can be moved up if
~ the n~ed is there, and i~ could be moved back if the
5 n~~cl i s not there. So I can' t specif ical ly say what
6 dat~ they intend to proceed with those improvements.
7 The Ac1a County Highway District has
8 jurisdiction of Franklin Roac] across our site. ~+le
9 spoke with those fniks also. And they 'indicated to us
10 that the burc7en was on us to propose the improvements
11 that we intended to do on Franklin Road in this area,
12 they woulcl review them anc~ work with us to get to a
13 final project. We have not proposed anything yet. We
14 felt it would mnre appropriate after this hearing.
15 ~~Ie have, however, given both transportation
16 ag~nci~s our preliminary traffic plan, and it is in the
17 submittal we gav~ you tonight. I have got one more
18 drawing here.
19 R~alizing that we were having some
20 opposition ancf some concern, legitimate concern, from
21 residen~.s of hiontvue Subdivision, we have studied the
22 issue carefully and held a me~ting with some of the
23 re~identa of that neighborhood.
24 To get the facts str~ight, the proposed
25 mall bord~rs t~lontvue Subclivision for approximately
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1 1,000 feet on its -- on the mall's northern border an
2 ~~Zontvue' s southern border.
3 On the east side of ~Zon~vue Subdivision we
~ do not border the subdivision specifically there.
5 There is a farm approximately 300 feet wicle, with a
6 couple homes up near Franklin Road. There is also
7 another farm that is nat part of our proposal with a
& home up here on Franklin Road.
9 However, in discussing methods of screening
10 with those resid~nts from Montvue Subdivision, we
11 proposed some alternatives that we felt would meet the
1.2 wording of the t~leridian screening ordinance.
13 After some discussion of those issues, the
1~ folks from A~ontvue Subdivision expressed more
15 ~nthusiasm for the mounted concept than for any of the
16 other concepts. Ancl so I think if we do propose any
17 screening on P~lontvue Subdivision, I believe we will
18 wor k arouncl the moundeci typ~ concept.
1~ Furthermore, the residents of Montvue
20 Subdivision, some of them, asked if it might be
21 ~ossibl~ to turn this row of buil dings around and put
22 them on the other boundary so that they were facing the
23 front of an a+ttractive building rather than the back of
2~ an attractive building.
25 ~~e beli~ve that is -- we believe that is
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y possible. We have already had some time to
2 study the concept, and we believe that we can simply
3 switch that store around and change the entrance
~ 4 configuration, if that is important to satisfy those
5 needs.
6 t~ith that I would like to turn the
~ 7 remaincl~r of our
presentation over to r~r. Phil Hanson
8 to discuss eca namic issues.
9 Thank you.
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11 PHILLIP HATISON,
12 having been first c7uly sworn, gave the following
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15 I~~R. HANSOi~1: I hope that all of you can hear me
! 16 very clearly because I have to talk about something
17 that is extremely important in connection with any
lE d~velopment in any city, and that is money,
e
. 19 particularly tax money.
20 In talking about this subject I'm going to
21 be talking about a subject that is extremely complex,
~ 22 not only to the layman but even complex to those who
23 wander around city hall and county buildings trying to
24 figure out where their next tax dollar is coming from.
~ 25 I'm goinq to simplify it somewhat, but I
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1 would like to mak~ sure that you understand that we
2 have notes that amend -- as an amendment to our
3 document which help answer some of the questions about
4 tax rev~nues, that is the first thing.
5 Anci the second thing is I' d like to make
G sur~ you understand that I am available during this
7 meeting or after this meeting to c3iscuss any of the
8 things that I'm abaut to mention in very brief form.
9 I' ci like to bring to your attention only
10 seven items. The f irst item that I' d like to bring to
lZ your attention is the way in which Ic3aho state law is
12 structurecl. Ic~aho state law is structured to the
13 disadvantage of cities. So if all of you are looking
14 ta save money or to make money in connection with any
15 growth of your city, whether it is a mall or
16 H~wlett-Packarc~, it will not come because of state law.
17 State law does not permit local governments
18 to collect large amounts of their awn revenue, but
19 insteacl collect the revenue for them and qives them
20 bacl: a portion of it. That is a very important issue
21 remember and it will be involved in all of the other
22 items that I will be mentioning.
23 The second item which is shown on this
24 ch~rt, cahich I'm sure most of you cannot see in detail,
25 is th~ bottorn line. And the bottom line in connection
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1 with a ma11, and it is nat unlike other development
2 that may ~ccur in this city, such as Hewlett-Packard,
3 although Hewlett-Packard is in the school district, not
4 in th~ City of Meridian -- the bottom line to this
5 clevelopment is shown in this chart as two columns.
6 The column on the far right shows all of
7 the tax revenues generated from all sources or all
8 governments because of the mall. The column in the
~ middle shows that tax revenue which will accrue to the
10 City of Nieridian based on our estimates, which are in
11 many cases conservative.
12 The total amount of tax revenue that this
13 mall will generate will be between S10 and S12 million
1~ per y~ar in sources such as property tax, water and
15 sew~r service fees, water and sewer hookup fees, sales
16 ~ax, s~ecial fees for building permits and so on.
17 So the fact of the matter is that whether
18 the City of f~Teridian realizes all of its S10 million or
l~ S12 milli.oi~ benef it, there is a large amount of revenue
20 g~nerateci.
21 The third thing, and perhaps the most
22 import~nt to all of you, has to do with only one item
23 on thi~ chart. It's the top it~m, it is property tax.
24 T~e property tax law in this state is structured in
25 such a fashion, based on the one percent initiative so
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that that alsn does not work to the local governmen~s'
advantage.
The state has said cities' and counties'
local governments have two alternatives, they can
either increase their budget by five percent per year
or they can take a growth factor which reflects things
such as the mall occurring in the city.
So the city in this case, the City of
t•iericiian has both of those choices. If they choose the
five p~rcent initiative, or the five percent
alternative, they will increase their budget by five
~ercent for ne~t year. If they choose to reflect the
gra~ath of ~he mall will bring the city, they will
increas~ their budg~t or their assessed valuation and a
por~tion of their budget up to 51 percEnt.
The next thing to remember about property
tax is the amount of tax that is actually being paid by
th~ mall versua the amount of taxes the city will get a
chance ita take advantage once again because of state
1 aw .
The ma11 f or th e nom inal val ue of 10 0
millian dollars will pay a property tax of between 200
and 2~0,000 per year. That is direct money paid out of
~he developer's -- or the owner's pocket.
Now, of that amount, approximately 5184,000
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will accrue to the advantage of the city because of the
way the state law is written. The clifference between
the 230, the lE4 or about $40,000, will go to recluce
taxes for all other homeowners in thE city of P~Ieridian.
And that is the way the law is written.
The fourth it~m that I would like to bring
to your a~ttention is that also on this chart is the
school district. The precise manner in which the
school district wi11 b~nt~f it or not benef it from this
has not been workecl out in connection with the school
district, but the way in which the state law is written
will result in the payment by the developer and owner
of this rnall of approximately one-half million dollars
per y~ar in taxes towards school and education programs
in the state.
T~Tow, once again as to the city, the schoal
district will nat be able to take fu11 advantage of
that amount of money, or perhaps even a small or even a
fair portion of it. But once again, that is th~ way
the state law is written.
The f ift~i item I' d 1 ike to bring to your
a~ttentic~n is an even mare dismal, terrible problem in
th~ State of Idaho and that is sales tax. The mall
wi11 g~nerate som~thing on the orci~r, a conservative
est~mate, ;amething on the order o~ 140 million dollars
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in sales ~ach year. Anc~ that amount will incr~~s~ as
the mall aa~s, as i~: acc~uires more snoppers.
Out c~f that 140 million dollars will
pr~sent a four ~Frcent tax in the State of Idaho, it
~aill g~rt~rate b~tween five and a quarter and five and
six-t~nth~ rnillion ciollars of sales tax revenue per
y~ar. Once ag~in, the st~.t~ law do~s not permit the.
City caf ~~Zeridian to be the large beneficiary of that
incom~. Insteac~ the City of Nleridian will get
ap~rUximat~ly t~~uo to $3,000 out of those total sales
tax r~venues.
Th~ si~~h i~em T' c~ like to point out on
this chart are those it~m5 which are self-supporting in
this state. In this sta~e and this city, particularly,
th~re ar~ enterpri~e funds. And what enterprise means
is alm~s~ what it says. It has ta be a func7 that
su~~ports i~self.
Ti~a~ is true of water, sewer, water
service, ~~wer s~rvice and building permits. In thase
cases the ordinance specified is the amount of money
that must br~ paid to cover the cost of th~ city doing
that business.
The seventh item that -- the last item that
I' a lik~ ~to bri.nq to your attention, one small item I' d
3ik~ to m~ntion in connection with the chart is the
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it~m shown as Iir~uor ~ax. Liquar and gasoline tax ar~
~lso sourc~s of revenue, but since this city cloes not
hav~ a roac~ department, it c~n't prof.:~ or benefit from
gasolin~ tay. And becaus~ th~ shopping mall will not
have a liquor outlet, there will be either an unknown
or a knawn r~venue g~nerated from liquor tax -- sal~s.
~'he seventh item is really not a separate
item, it is simply a canclusion of this chart and the
r,ies~ag~ ~.klat I' c~ like to leave you with.
Anc~ that mcssa~e is very clear, there are
b~tw~~ri 10 and 12 million dollars' worth of taxes -- or
in t~axes that ar~ paid by th~ mall each year that go to
the peopl~ in the State of Iaaho. A large portion of
those, bu"t nat th~ largeat portion of ~hose, will go to
~nc Ci'ty c~f T~i~ridi~n. Ancl a par~ion of those thai~ go
to the City of r~~i~ridian, because of the way in which
property tax l~ws are structured, will go to reduce
prop~rty tax on present ham~own~rs.
Tne n~.~t thing I~aould like t~o point out is
that in vie~a of: this cost -- anc~ there is no growth
that occurs in any cammunity that I'm familiar with, in
~he view af this cost, there will be some cost
assaciated with th~ developm~nt.
But if this represents a benef it of 10
million c~c~lldrs, t~~~n there is prol~ably a cost to the
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city af b~tw~~n 7C10,000 and one million dollars in
co~cs. 5a the co~t b~nef it relationship is somethinc~
on th~ order of l2 to 1.
Anc~ to me, aft~r loaking at malls and other
ci~v~lcprnents in other cornmunities throughout the Uniteci~
States, that woulu s~em to me to be an overwhelming
auvant~ge tt~r arguing in favar of this particular
dev~l opm~nt.
As I sa icl bef or e, if any of you have
questions, I'11 be happy to answer them either now or
later.
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I~TR. GIESLER; I have one.
P~T~YOR KIPIGSFORD: Councilman Giesler has a
qu~stion.
r~ir~. xAr~lsora: Yes.
T~IR. GIESL~R: You saic~ you have approximately
140 million in gross sales. Now, is that new sales or
is that the s~l~s shift from the city out there or
Boise out -- that we're already colleeting?
~ZI~. H1~i~dSOrd: The sales will come from a lot of
differen't source~. So lEt me explain, there are three
different sources. The first source of sales will be
brand n~w sales ta this communilty. That sales -- the
buyers in this community who have previously not gone
to ~a mall to purchas~ items that are offered in the
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mall such as thi~. So there will be new sal~s. It is
clifficult to estimate what propartion that will be.
The second category pf sales will be those
that now go to the mall -- or that will go to the mall
and will be lost to other areas in the city. Now, that
loss -- and I don't mean just this city, but I mean the
whole shopping area -- that loss, in all other cities
that I have lookec~ at, fallow a very distinct pattern.
[~ncl tha~ patt~rn is as follows: For the
first 90 to 120 days the existing businesses
experienced a loss of sales or at least a flattening of
sales, but almast without exception after that period
of time, sales increased for the very sim,ple reason
that a mall of this magnitude draws people and shoppers
to this community.
The third and probably the most important
source of shopping -- or shopp~rs or buyers in this
mall will be buy€~rs who now go to other communities.
And I can' t hel p but br ing to your
atten~ion a littl~ experience that I haci standing in
line at a window at a bank. The ga1 at the bank who
was serving me says, l~iy, that is a nice outfit you have
on. A2y shirt and my tie and my slacks. And I said,
Yes, well, I had to gn to a large city to buy it. I
bought it at a shopping mall in Grand Junction,
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Colorado. And the lac7y behind me almost fell over
b~cause she was from Grand Junction, Colorado.
But the fact of the matter is not only do I
anc~ some -- probably some of you out there buy in other
communities, but a very large proportion of people do.
Particularly in Salt Lake, San Francisco, Seattle, that
sart of place.
tIR. TOLSiiA: I notice on your revenue
proj~ctions there tY-at there is no loss factor shown
far f ire and pol ice which is two of our maj or items.
P~2R. HANSON: The items that I have shown on this
chart are those that are reasonably unequivocal or
unarguable because of the way in which state law or
those arc~inances are written.
I have not put on here those items which
have a large discretion ~rom your point of vi~w and
fire and police are certainly amongst those items. In
my experience in working with mall developers in other
cominuni~ties, I discovered that it is very easy if you
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c~o not have experience with the impact of a mall to
either overestimate or unc7erestimate the cost that will
b~ incurred.
t~ae have in notes that we have provided you
suggested to you that it would be perhaps prudent to
r~tain an inciependent adviser to suggest to you what
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~he real costs are.
I can only give you the experience that I
hav~ seen. It has ranger~ all the way from very gooa to
very bac~. In the City of Chubbuck the experience
was -- the plans w~re that they woulcl have to have many
mare firemen, many more policemen and many more pieces
of equipment.
In fact, in talking to the fire -- the
police department, they hired only one new person, and
they haven't hacl to acquire any new cars. That is an
extrer~lely good er.p~rience.
There are others that perhaps are not as
good. I would hope that in the City of hieridian we
will have a good experience if you decide to support
those services.
In any event, those services are supportec~
out of the property taxes or other fees or levies that
we will develop.
t~iAYOR KIP~GSFORD: Council, do you have a
questa.on? Any other questians from the panel?
( r~da response. )
F~i1~Y0R KIP~GSFORD: Thank you.
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FRED BRUI~ING,
having been first duly sworn, gave the following
st~tem~nt:
P~iR. BRUNTNG: f~~r. t~iayor, members of the city
council, and residents of Nieridian, my job tonight is
really to speak on a very narraw issue, ~ut the issue
that makes all this happen is the major department
stores and tenancy requirements that the city council
has ask~d us to fulfill in order to prove to you that,
in fact, this mall as we are presenting ~today can be
buil ~ and wil l b~ buil t.
To do that, fi rst of al l, I' d 1 ike to
mention a little bit of my background because it may be
helpi'ul. But for 30 years I was an employee for Sears
Roebuck & Com~any. Part of that time as a real estate
attorney, but for a good portion of that time as real
estate director for western United States, which of
course incluae~ Idaho. And I spent a number of years
in that role looking at this community.
Now, I can't say that I speak for Sears at
this point, because I certainly do not. G~Ihen I left
Sears I went to work for another developer in
C~lifornia. The Florence Company (phonetic) which owns
anc~ operates the largest malls in the continental
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Unitec~ States, the DeLoma t~iall tphonetic) .
And af ter spending some time with them and
John Price openeci his west coast office, I quit there
and joined him.
So I wanted to make two things clear.
First of all, in doing this I'm not speaking for Sears
~onight, even though you will find my name on one of
the letters in your submittal, back from the days when
I was at Sears.
And secondly there was this gap in time
from the time I left Sears before going to John Price,
wor king f or another devel ope r, because I' m a very
sensitive person, they thought that there may be some
kind of collusion or something going on in a situation
like this.
t~7ith that as a background, what I'd like to
s~y is that we have tried to comply as best we could
with the requirements of the city in proffering
evidence thaf. shows the interests of the major
department stores.
The way I understanci the shopping center
industry to work, particularly what a major department
store looks for is a zoned piece of land in an
accept~ble location with all the acceptable elements of
traffic and taxes anc! all the rest of things worked out
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b~f or e they wil l go ahead anc~ put thei r corporate name
on the proj ect.
The reason they c~o this is because as soon
as they put their name on that project, they have to
allocate funds for it. And ther~ is no sense
allocating iunds and messing up the corporate profit
and loss stater:tent if the project really can't be
bu il t.
Naw, I personally was witness to about five
yc~ars af the struggle in this comrnunity of trying to
put a r~gional shopping center tog~ther. The way I
~~rsonally saw it when I was wi~h Sears, and my opinion
no~a~, I'm not speaking for Se~rs, but in an opinion
which was basically shared by my frienc~5 who were other
real estate directors in other companies, was that
ther~ were two sites func3amentally not acceptable to
the r~tail depar~ment stores. If they were acceptable
th~y would have committed, and a mall would have been
buil t.
The major department stores got together
and said we think we would like to be at Cloverc3ale
Road first. It is an excellent site. It's in the
suburbs. I~ serves the overall Tre~sure Valley
community with the major department stores saying they
neec7 to serve the community.
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That resul ted in one maj or shopping center
which did not split the market and result in a bad
product, which perhaps, as an e~:ample, woulc! be seen in
Ogden, Utah, where you have no~. two, but three malls
split~ting up the cammunity, none of which is
successful, all of which are now a drain on the
community, police and fire and other services because
they are nat carrying their own weight.
[~dell, in any event the major department
stores committed to Cloverdale. They also submitted
letters in the past for the site at Westpark. But when
our company -- when John Price was approached relative
to the sit~ at ~aql~, we felt at the company that Eagle
hac! a11 of the criteria necessary to be a successful
shopping cen~er.
You are talking about l~ss than a mile
difference really between the Cloverdale site and the
Eagle site. And yet you are not so far west that you
lose touch or lose contact with the City of Boise,
which in the major department stores line is a key
co n~ideration, I believe.
That being the case w~ have come tonight
with a numb~r of items in our submittal package. We
have letters of interest or letters of intent from five
major department stores, all of whom support the
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conc~pt of a suburban mall site, all of wham reference,
I believe, or if it is not in a letter itself or in
canversations which several members of the council had
directly with t~e retailers, the concept of the mall at
Eagle Roaci, all of them are supportive of a mall at
Eagle Road. In addition to their support and their
continuing support for a site at Cloverdale.
The only major department stores, and I'm
kinu of cabbaging on to a little bit here, like I said
before, the only department stores we find that really
aren't too excitec3 about a mall happening out here are
those department stores in Seattle and Salt Lake City
th at are curr~ntly taking a11 your sales away from you.
But the department stores that we have here
are sincere in their interests in putting a store
tagether anc3 what they are asking for. And I believe
they Yl~.ve reaffirmed this, at least to some extent in
t~lephonic cammunications.
They are asking for a measure of response
from the city saying, Yes, this site will be zoned.
Yes, it will go forward based on these concerns. And
once they see that, I believe that you' 11 find this
mall here very clearly developable in the near future.
In addition to the letters from the major
department stores, we took one further step and said,
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~~1e11, based an th~se letters -- we went ta a lender
that we wor k~.~d with in the past and said, Based on
these letters, would you finance this mall? And they
cam~ bac~ and said, Yes, we will. We'll put up the
Money to do the construction phase of this project
because we now have the tenants' word, and we feel they
are deliverable.
Finally, with this submittal we have 45
l~tters representing 67 mall figures, representing
appraxim~tely 175,000 square feet of mall shop space
who wil l give thei r unequivocabl e suppor t f or the site
at Eagl~ Roa~i and say as soon as that mall gets going,
we're th~re. Because it is a wonderful community. It
is a communi~y that deserves a regional shopping
center.
I was up in Vancouver, Canada, just
recen~cly and there is a large mall up there that is
actually planning on working with Western Airlines to
draw people frnm the Boise comrnunity to shop at the
ma.ll in Vancouver, Canada, because they see this as
such a tremendaus untapped mark~t. And I think that is
criminal.
I really think that this is the time that
the city council can move forward, workinq with the
tenants, t~nants are active partners in this and the
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developer is -- you know, as 1~Sr. Taubman has certainly
found out, the developers don' ~ tell the majors where
to go. The majors will say, This is acceptable. We
would entertain this. ~•~e' 11 go forward.
But before we put our corporate assets on
the lin~, we will need to know that this site is in
fact deliverable and that the community as a whole
wants a shopping center there.
And if the community as a whole wants a
shopping c~nter there and i~ the city council in
r~sponc7ing ta that need moves forward with the zoning,
then, I think, it is quite c1Ear that you wi11
def ini'tely have a regional shopping center at this site
in say f~ll of 1988.
And with that, I think, that concludes my
segm~nt o~ the presentation.
P•~AYOR KINGSFORD: t~Ir. Bruning, I would like to
clear up a point that not all five of those c7id state
that they would locate at Eagle Road, the telephone
c~idn't tell us that th~y -- with the addition of those
two --
f•~R. BRUPIII~G : I wasn' t pr ivy to thase
conversations, but again you do have a very good point.
Thank you.
i~3AY0R KINGSFORD: Any questions, council?
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1 (No response.)
2 A VOTCE: Could I ask --
3 ~~iAYOR KINGSFORD: You'll have an opportunity --
4 did ynu sign up to speak? You can certainly ask at
5 that time, 1et' s move along at this time.
6
7 DUAINE RAS~TUSSEN~
B having been first duly sworn, gave the following
9 statement:
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11 MR. RASI~IUSSEN: TZr. t~iayor, members of city
12 council, T know we're begging your indulgence as we
13 continu~ ~o take your time, but we felt as though there
14 are a number of issues that needed to be addressed here
15 ~his ~v~ning. And I'll try to wrap this up as quickly
16 as possible in discussing some of the final issues that
17 w~re on our agenda.
18 First of all, let me say that I have been
19 in this community for the last week anc7 a half solici
20 working with members of this community as citizens or
21 working with members of the city council and various
22 governmental staff agencies. And i find their process
23 ta be v~ry thorough, very professional; and I
2 4 coMpl iment you f or your ef forts in terms of the city
25 council in pursuing and trying to resolve this issue to
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the best benefit of the members and citizens of the
cor~munity of t~ieridian.
We have, I believe, this evening submitted
a preponderance of evidence, and we will continue to do
that so there is a need for a change in the
comprehensive plan of this community.
ti°~e recognize there are a number of issues
yet to be resalved in terms of financial commitments by
the developer and negotiations between the developer
and the community. We did not feel, and I believe
ther~ ar~ tl~ose amang you who don' t feel a
cornprehensive plan change time is the time to address
that. T~at the time between now and the time we come
back to you for actual planning and zoning annexation
is tl~e time ~o sit down and negotiate that with the
members of cit~~ council. ti•~e welcome that time to sit
down ~nd determine for you what revenues this will
praduce and what your costs are as a city.
tae know that there is going to be a gap.
~~Je stanc7 reaciy as a developer not asking at this time
for a blank ch~ck from the community, not asking as
sonle residents of your community have claimed this will
put this community into bankruptcy over the next few
years, but to sit down as responsible entrepreneurial
enter~ris~ ancl suggest ways of solving those issues.
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~~~e know ~ir. Taubman and police and f ire are
particularly large issues. We have been able to solve
them in oth~r cornmunities. I cite for you particularly
the comr~unity o~' Chubbuck. 6~Ie have invited for your
edification this evening the public works director,
P~gr. Stev~ Smart, to join us from Chubbuck. And I
believe he'l1 have something to say later on on his
awn, not as actually a part or a member of our team,
but will b~ subject to your questions.
V7e recognize that the city has a bottom
line, and w~ stand ready to sit down ancl negotiate that
bottorn line with you in a professional fashion. We
know tha~t the city fire department has submitted
numb~rs to you this c~ay as to what they believe it will
cost thern to provide fire protection to a mall at this
~articular site. Vae suggest that that is probably true
as it applies to any site that is currently available
for a mall development.
We also believe that if it is true, that if
it applies to any particular site. Let me rephrase
that. ~ae would like the opportunity again to sit down
anc3 determine what the real needs are.
I think that that basically covers all of
the issues. There are those of you who have expressed
some concern that if we zone this site, we still will
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develo~ for years ~o came. There are ways I believe in
which we can approach and meet the city's concerns in
th at regard as well. And we also stand ready to do
that.
We would urge you this evening to pass this
comprehensive plan change based on the evidence
submitted to you tonight.
Are there any qu~stions? Mr. Giesler?
P~ZR. GIESLER; 1~1r. Rasmussen, I understand -- do
you feel that the Eagle Road site is the best site?
You're representing Claremont Development, and they
have saic3 that they feel this is the best si?~e. And
may I ask what you are doing tomorrow night at
~~estpark?
P~~R. RASMUSSEN: You surely, may. We, as you
know, cantinue to hold options on all -- on West Park
and Clov~rdale and Eagle Roac3 as well. Those are done
for high priority business reasons in which this
comrnunity -- I think P~Ir. Bruning has indicated that
this community is one in which there is a great amount
of interest in the clevelopers and it would be foolish
for me -- we would be foolish to drop those opitons
behind us.
6~Te ar~ no~t a part of the application being
submitted by ~~Ir. Leasure at his taestpark site. He's
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doing that entirely on his own and with our concurrence
I might add. And if both sites were available
tomorrow, Duaine Rasmusse n personally, and I think
Price D~velopment Company would pursue Eagle Road.
tive have not tried, incidently, t~r. Giesler,
ta hic7e that, it has been a very open fact ta, I think,
all members of this comrnunity.
And I might just add that our mission as
the developer is to build with major tenants, like you
have c1. i~nts whp come into your shop and so for th. And
it is our job to make them happy. And we're charged
with clelivering them a site in this comrnunity that
would b~ acceptable for the need to put a major retail
facil ity on.
Iti7R. GIESLER: Thank you.
ri~AYOR KIr~GSFORD: Does other council have
questions of t~Ir. Rasmussen?
(No response.)
P~R. RASMUSSEN: Thank you. That concludes our
publication.
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P~~11YOR KIrdGSFORD: There are a number of
incTivic~uals who did sign up to give testimony. We will
gn through those in the order in which they signed up.
Again, I would appreciate it if you would limit your
remarks to three minutes.
Th~; first person who signed up is
David LewiS.
DAVID LELaIS~
having been first duly sworn, gave the following
statement:
I~IR. LEWTS: r•4ayor, councilmen, ladies and
g~ntlemen, last Friday night, D1ay 31, 1985, 660
tleridian high school seniors graduated, the largest
grac~uating class in the history of Idaho.
Vahere do those graduates go and why? Your
children and granclchildren when they enter this outside
world? For sure many leave Meridian for elsewhere and
everywhere. Some are educated locally and then they,
too~ dcpart for jobs in pl~ces yet to be identified.
ti~That is at stake here tonight? Let' s recap
a minute to the crossroads wher~ P~Ieridian now stands.
For some 20 years some of Boise's illustrious leaders
have attemp~eci to throttle this center intercore with
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1 I their version of a dream.
2 who ~aid the bills? We all did. ~vho
3 suffereci the losses? We all did. And who has left the
4 vall~y from 1~65 ~0 1985 among many others, your
5 children and granc7children.
6 And over the years while the politicians
7 and planners pushed aside the criticism and common
8 sense it has been estimated that 100 million dollars
9 annually leaves this valley because no regional mall
10 exists.
11 In Febr ua ry 19 82 many I~Ser idians testi f ied
12 to the extreme importance of the Eagle Road I-84
13 interchange. An interchange which the Boise
14 politicians, notably Mayor Dick Eardley, desperately
15 wanted tU control. For whoever controlled the
16 int~rchange cauld ciictat~ k~y planning elements within
17 the pathways of the city's future. In this case, the
18 future of T~leridian.
1~ That night Eardley testif ied; a delay he
20 said. More study he said; new information he said.
21 Eardley lost. And the approval for the I-84
22 interchange that belongecl to the City of Meridian and
23 its future.
24 Concurrently, anather regional mall
25 dc~veloper anr~ dream has fermented in Ada County. The
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12-year-olc~ dream of I-84 Kuna-r~ieridian Road. And
~very so often whenever a glimmer of opposition arises
like three years ago September, that developer delivers
a rousing Rah, Rah, Rah speech on what he doesn't have,
but what he's going to get. And then he, too,
disappears back west.
Now, we all know, Boise's dream has busted,
and the dilapidated 12-ycar-o1c3 patience is golden
signs swinging in the breeze among the annual sca ttered
farm crops year after year after year.
This recent fragmentation is far-reaching
and concrete. There will be a suburban mall in western
~da County. And where before those same Boise city
~aoliticians who fought so desper~tely against anything
hap~~ning in Eagl~ Poad are now clamoring to right
~hough they wrong, to ~ppease the d~veloper they offend
with deeds and word. Price of the straw man, Eardley
said.
L~1hy is Boise all of a sudden so desirous of
a suburban mall? Why on r7ay 28, 1985, did Boise lawyer
Jim i~~lebb state, It would be a travesty for Boise to
lose the regional tax mall base to the City of
t~eridian? And why just last week was a resolution
placed before the Boise City Council to encourag~ the
regional shopping center inside Boise city limits and
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to oppose, to oppose a development of a r~gional mall
center in the l~ieridian area?
I~~AYOR KIrdGSFORD: Mr. Lewis, you have gone five
minutes, pl~ase try to wrap it up.
P~~R. LEWIS : Times are changing and common sense
dictates the graduating class of 1995 and the leaders
of this community will have witnessed these changes.
~•7h~th~r it be a 100 m~illion dollar construction mall
with 100 million dollar sales base producing some 3,000
jabs and controlled by taleridian or will it go
elsewhere?
It has been said that a battle is a series
of mistakes ancl the party which blunders the least
~m~rges victoriously. Th~ City of Nleridian is a
crossroac7, a reraaining submissive child in the bedroom
o:f Boise. Are adminstrators trying to provide a new
financial ciirection for its citizen in the future to
y~our granclchilaren and your chilclren? A choice of your
c~oosing tonight. Thank you.
C42AYOR KIPIGSFORD: The next speaker is
Georg~ Vasil. He will b~ followed by Robert Davis. Be
r~aciy, please.
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GEO~'.GE VAS IL,
havinc~ been first duly sworn, gave the following
statement:
T~IR. VAS IL : I' 11 make my remarks br ief here.
TZAYOR KII~GSFORD: George, could you speak into
th~ microphon~, please?
T~~~. VAS IL : Yes.
Y~iAYOR KINGSFORD: Thank you.
r~IR. VF~SIL: r~y name is George Vasil, I live at
5325 North Eagle Road in l~leridian. And my wife and I
both favor a yes vote for the proposec7 mall to be built
~t I- 84 .
I have just eight reasons here. The first
one, t.hat it will bring new business ta ~Z~ric~ian.
Peapl~ will shop and spend money where businesses are
loca~tecl. New business will give Nleridian a shot in the
arm far an increased buciget, school funds, city service
funcls and oth~rs.
The mall will bring increased employment to
T~Teridian. People will have jobs building the mall,
working the mall, and when it is completed, Meridian
people will work and spend maney in town. Working
peopl~ are happy peapl~ and cnntribute much to the
community spirit.
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The mall will give t~~eridian a large tax
base for all services anc! give the property owners a
lif.tle tax relief, hopefully. Every need for funds
m~ans property ~ax increases. This is one way to raise
the funds for schools that we desperately need.
The mall means P~ieridian will no longer be a
veteran city. t~seridian will be a zoning city and
peaple will come and spend their money here as well as
people ~aho live here.
The mall wil]. be an increase in business
far the e~cisting h~eridian merchants. They will improve
their shops anci merchandise to bring the shoppers in
the mall for their developers. t~ieridian will look to
r~l~uild -- Ileric~ian ca.n look to rebuilding of downtown
areas in a mix~ci plan to include businesses and
offices.
The mall will not devaluate property.
Commercial business increases property values as
business graws. Due to the m~ll t~2eridian will develop
al 1 the way out to Fr ankl in and Fai rv iew to Eagl e Road
and be a business center for the county.
The offering that Eagle might get, Eagle
Roac~ and I-II4 will be built in the next year or so.
Your ciecision does not change that. The increase in
~tr af f ic me~ns nar e pe opl e shoppi ng i n the new mal l.
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The tr~ffic will not congest th~ central part of
Boise -- or tdZ~ridian, parclon me. And will not have to
continue waiting and waiting for Nahas to do something.
This is your last chance to build a
regional ma21 in the tieridian ar~a. Boise has
annauncec~ they will not own up to building a mall in
the suburbs of Bois~. And they certainly will not
builc~ it here in M~ridian for ~Ieridian to get the
business.
I woulc~ urg~ your vote of yes on the
proposed mall and let's move ahead. I would like to
call your attention to the sign above the city council.
It says, "The secret of making dreams come true is
car~fid~nc~, courage, constancy anc! curiosity." I hope
the City of t~teridian and the council will take this and
vote y~s. T,hank you.
t-iAYOR KINGSFORD: Thank you. The next speaker
is Robert Davis, and then l~tarv Bodine.
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ROBERT DAVIS,
having b~en first duly sworn, gave the f ollowing
statem~nt:
I~3R. D11VIS: Nlayor ICingsford, members of the
council, first of all, I want to ~:press my
appreciation for the opportunity to testify here
tonight. Thank you for even co nducting this public
hearing. It was of a great deal of interest to a great
many people. Anc1 I' m sure there are a lot of people
that da appreciate it.
I would like to allude briefly to a flier
which I think everybody has here in which the word fact
is significantly displayed, ancl I don't know on how
many occasions, and it portrayed as being fact and as
being truth an~l what have you. And I would like to
specifically refer to the on~ sentence, "annexation
would adversely affect the existing retail community of
~•Zeridian." And they make reference to source number
two which is the finding of facts, laws, conclusions --
tieridian City Council. And I have to assume that was
probably in r~lationship to the request by the Quong
annexation in 1~~3.
~°7ould also like to say that I have been in
business in r7eridian for the past eight years. And
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came tc~ this area in 1934 and lived in and was
associated with the City of t~leridian ancl people in it
tar some 51 years.
I'd like to take an exception to the
statement, and again, perhaps even read this somewhat
ric~iculous statement. "Annexation woulc7 adversely
affect the ~xisting retail community of t~eridian."
Let's take a look at what the track record
ha~ been since that time, and I assume that is probably
t~7arch of 1983, and see exactly what has happened to the
retail community of Meridian in that approximately
25-month period.
I'd like to read you the names of the
businesses that have gone out of business in Meridian
during that period of time. Starting with the Ace
Hardware, Fullmer' s Western Wear, Royal Oak Interiors,
Fashion Place, The Hanger, Ross' Furniture;
And now in process r~adison Furniture,
Don' s Shoe Store, Rocky Niountain A~eats, Poj o' s, Don Lee
Fabrics, Stiehl's Jewelry, Bernie Gratton Real Estate,
Pratect-A-Cneck, Lutz Realty, 4~lright Specialty Meats,
the Danan Restaurant, t-7y Place Restaurant, Chiefy's
Restaurant, Idaho Photo, Keystone Pizza, the Vac 5hack;
Ttie Pillow Palace, Service Plumbing, the
Pro Shop, Boothill Shoe Repair, Calico Pizza, La Shaloo
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Beauty Salon, Pdew Creations, Waterbed Warehouse,
Sp~ghetti Showtime, t~ieridian Laundromat, Interior
Pools, Old c~~orld Arts, Payless Lumber Supply, Johnson
Equipment, Holiday Boats, Potter & Associates, American
Personnel, Huico, Total Transportation, Sunray Dairy,
Field Tech, Bob Allen Chevrolet. Anc~ as of last
Friday, taZeridian Fitness Center, who, incidently was my
co-tenant right next c3oor to my business. Bedlong
Jewelers, ~~Zeridian Ca,b, Meridian Family Practice,
Win~low Photography.
I count 52 business that have gone out of
business or left ~~Ieridian or closed their doors in the
course of approximately 25 months. That averages about
two a month.
I would like to refer once more to this
fact. "Ann~xation of this location would adversely
affect the existiny retail community of Meridian." I
present for the consideration of the city council a
petition signed by those of us who are in need.
Th~ petition reads as follows: We the
following t~leridian businesses recognize that growth is
essential to our business success. For the past ten
y~ars we have hoped for the growth resulting from a
regional mall at I-8~ and Meridian Road.
Hawever, with the inabil ity of the
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dc:veloper to secur~ tenants to this locatian, we must
therefore make the business judgment that a regional
ma11 a~ this location is not feasible and will not be
accomplished.
we therefore pe tition the Meridian City
Council to amend the comprehensive plan to allow for a
r~gional ma11 at I-8~ and Eagle Roac3, and to direct the
city at~orney to initiate favorable findings of facts.
This petition lists the business name, who
it is signed by and their title. For the sake of
brevity I'll read only the business name, but it is
~ignecl by ~ither a presiaent or an owner or manager of
the cami~any. The petition is signed as follows:
Ada County Real Estate, Meridian Ford,
J& J Recreation, Wholesa]:ers Incorporated, Idaho Tent
and Canvas, Vern Ewing Agency, PTL Agency, Meridian
Auta Sales, Local Travel, Photography By Ray, Murphy &
Associates, Elite Cleaners, Murri Electronics,
i~i & D Specialties, Earl Bolen Eonds, Valley News, Audio
Electronics, Willis & Sons;
1~Ieridian P~ieat & Sausage, Hoff Building
Center, t~Tright Patterson, Klein & Company, Big M
Upholstery, Sheer Pleasure Styling, Zamzow's Meridian,
Jerry ~ Bill's Foodtown, t~feridian Glass & 5creen, Idaho
Insul~tion, Snow Shack. Incidently, that is the little
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p1ac~ u~a by Smi~th' s that sells snow cones. It is nice
to see that they are interested in the welfare of our
community.
Pit Stop, Fast Lub~:, Carpet Headquarters,
Bobby's Transmission, Unit~d Sales Associates, Fuller &
Associates, Bodine Oil Company, All-American Insurance,
The I~ew Beginnings, Don's c~~larket, Hoalst Anderson
Insurance, Fronti~r Tire, Cok~ Bottle, Incorporated,
Palace Hallmark;
The Adventure Land Videos, JCAi Fine
Jewelry, Nan's Floral, Big 0 Tire, Servpro of rieridian,
t~'iarcum Incorporated, United Mechanical Contractors,
Buchanan & Ols~n, Ownby & Com pany, Foley & Lance, and
Taco Incorporated, T-a-c-o, Incorporated.
Members of the council, I present you with
this petition on ~he request that they be entered as a
part of ~he public recorc~.
In closing remarks I would call your
attention that in the space of time that we have been
in business sinc~ 1971 there have been a total of 73
busin~sses close their doors or go out of business in
Meridian. Since -- of that 73, 52 have been since
19~3. ti~ahich m~ans that in the five years preceding
that th~re w~re 22 businesses which closed.
I believe that there is a sufficient amount
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of th~ expertise in this community by the business
community to the ~xtent that their expertise should be
hearc3.
I think that a car dealer, for example, in
T-~I~ridian, Ic3aho, that weatherecl probably one of worst
r~c~ssions since the beginning of the Alimo (phonetic)
deal, and not only suceeded but survived and prospered
and e~pancled. I think his expertise should be listened
to.
I~hink the taholesaler Incorporated that
survived one of ~he worst building recessions in 40
years, who survived, praspered, I think his expertise
shaulc3 be listened to.
And I have to believe that collectively
those people who sign~d this petition have an expertise
~hat ~the entire community should take advantage of.
Anu I would urge the city council to ~eed their goal.
Thank you very much.
T~I.~YOR KIAIGSFORD: Ti~ank you, Bab. I just might
say that Bab is also president of the Treasure Valley
Chamber of Commerce. We allowed a certain amount of
the over, I3ob, and that is f ine.
~>>ould be appreciated, folks, if yau could
limit those remarks. we have some 30 who have signed
up to give testimony. ~nd it will take a good while.
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The next speaker is t~ir. t~iarv Bodine.
t~IARV IP1 BODINE ~
having been first duly sworn, gav~ the following
s~atem~nt:
P~ZR. BODINE: Looking here at the council, and I
~robably have lived here just about as many years as
maybe all the council put tog~ther, maybe not q uite,
but darn near. And as I look out across this crowd,
there is not very many out there I don't know.
i~ios~ of them I have known a good many
years, and there are a lot of real good friends out
there. And I don't think I have ever tried to guide
anybody in the wrong direction. I hope I haven't. I
have made som~ mistak~s, but I've tried to not ever put
th~m over on the other person.
But I am very strong in my feelings. We
need the mall at Eagle Road right now, because I feel
this caay. I helcl an for many months, for a long time.
We are eith~r gning to get a deal or we're going to get
involvecl; it is just about that simple.
I listeneci to the mayor and the council
talk today to some of the peopl~ at the stores and it
waa just th~t plain, that either we want it or accept
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it. It will come. They will pay their way, I promise
you. I){I"104J that they' re probably dubious, but I' m
not.
I think they ar~ good people. I think we
got to put faith in them just like v~e have everybody
else that has come into town. We have to put faith in
these areas.
And I think I pay my fair share of taxes
right along with the rest of you; I have tried. I
probably have more at stake than rnost of you fellows
have, so maybe I-- I don' t feel that I have -- that
I' m barking out of turn.
But right now, if that mall, if it goes
through it will be paid, whether most of you realize it
or not, that will be 10 percent of the revenue we' re
g~~ting for our school~. 10 percent is quite a bit.
That is a heck nf a 1at ta throw out ~the window, and
t1n~y're going ta need it.
There is no use taking up time throwing any
facts and figures at you, because you can make anything
lie if you wan~t to. But I' 11 promise you that I think
it is a real goad step for us. I hope the council will
listen to us. Anc~ I promise that it is going to be
good f or everybody.
Thank you.
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t~iAYOR I~INGSFORD: ~h~ next speaker is
Gerala Ruyf followed by Bernerd Kins~y.
GER~LD RUYF,
having been first duly sworn, gave the following
stat~ment:
NiR. I~UYF: W~11, it seems that my prepared
sp~ech will hav~ ~to wait ~ seconci, because I happen to
have h~re in front of ine f indings of fact of the
~~ovember 22 meeting, I believe it was 1982, in which
the statements that you read on the salmon pamphlet or
salmon flier --
A VOICE: Talk into the mike.
r~iP.. RUYF: 0lcay. The statements there on the
salman-colored flier were taken from. And I read to
you now from the statements of fact anc~ the findings.
And in paragraph A under 38 it says, "It would not be
orderly and it would not b~ in the balance with the
existent city.
"It is concluded in addition that mention
in th~ above that the annexation would not strengthen
the ci~ty' s abil ity to f inance and open publ ic
improveraents and servies. To the contrary, the
annexation would financially strap the city and weake n
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its ability to provicle services to the existinq areas
of the city.
"It is concluded that the annexation would
do the exact opposite to the above goal, which is to
encourage a balance of land use. That is to have a
mall located at that far distance from existing
services would not encourage revenues to pay for the
s~rvices.
"It is concluded that the annexation would
be in direct conflict with above policies. The '
shopping center would encourage urban sprawl and would
def initely remove agricultural lands from production.
"It is again concluded that the Overland
annexation area would create a commercial strip, not a
consolidation of e~isting commerical activity."
And tha~ is where the message came from
that appeared.
Your Honor l~ayor Kingsford, distinguished
cauncilrnen, tfleridian citizens, and other interested
parties, on 11 September, 1984, an Idaho Statesmen news
articl~ quoteci Phil Davidson of Claremont Constructian
Company as saying, This is a resurrection of the Quong
site.
I agree Wl'~I1 that statement and resubmit to
the council i~ts findings of fact ana conclusions of law
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derived f rom tne hearings of the Quong-~~~atkins proposal
on rdovember 22, 19a2, ancl the entire demurral study
that relates to it.
In the same article h1r. Davidson was quoted
as saying he was not asking for anything from local
af f icials until he came up with f irm commitments.
Since then the council has twice asked --
has b~en twice ~sked to consider Price proposals and
~till there are no really firm commitments.
T~layor Kingsford mentioned that all these commitments
were not e~cactly made to the Eagle site.
And I hav~ in my possession now petitions
gathererl, not by menc~ants, but by citizens that shop
in r~~eridian, during a six-hour period in June 1985.
These petitians contain desires of the people and not
thos~ of special interest groups.
477 people said they did not want a mall at
I-~a ~ncf Eagle Road. 417 people stated they wanted a
m~ll at I-84 and Meridian Road.
Npw, if the Price-Claremont people are
really sincere in their desires to do their best for
the peo~3le of Tieri.dian and the surrounding areas, then
l~t's do some~hing -- let's take a new attack. Let's
have them sit down with the T~ahas-Simon owners of the
prop~r~y anc~ form a joint ventur~ at that site, which
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will be th~ least cost to the City of I~Ieridian.
The site I'm talking about, of course, is
I-8~ and t~teridian Road. Then let them break ground
together as quickly as possible and build the mall in
the T~~eridian area before a mall can be built at Boise.
Let their actions bring the people of this town back to
a united front. Unless of course their interests in
the Clov~rdale and Westpark site would preclude this.
Thank you.
r7AY0R KINGSFORD: The next speaker is Bernerd
Kinsey followeci by Delbert I~Iatlock.
BERNERD KIi~ISEY,
having been first duly sworn, gave the following
statem~nt:
P~ZR. I:INSEY: I appear on the situation of these
cammitrnents that were given to the city council as f irm
commitmen~s, it was told. T~ieridian reports praise for
the Price Development. We are willing to take an
ap~lication to provid~ financing. I presume Idaho
First will, any bank will take an application. Pay and
save. This is a letter writ~.en to a NIr. Frasier
(~honetic) of Price. Says Price Development Company
h~reafter referred to as developer owns a regional
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shopping c~nter. Owns. They do not own; they have an
option to buy a site at the intersection of I-84 and
Eagle Road.
The developer has promised to Lamonts, that
Lamonts may lacate a store in the shopping center. And
Lamonts has ac~vised the developer that it is
inter~sted, only interested providing the project
cr~ntains all the elements deemed essential by Lamonts,
which is far banker retail, 1.3 million square feet it
says.
Se~rs -- naw, this is dated 17-1981, which
really isn't pertinent to this area in this respect
because it wasn't even in that there. It says here
again, though, in that one. This -- I'll read the
first par~t. "You hereinafter referred to as developer,
have re~resented to us, Sears P.oebuck & Company,
hereaft~r referrec~ to as Sears, that you own land at
the Int~rsection of I-8~ ancl Cloverdale." That I do
nat believe is it, which is the plan on a regional
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rnall.
Ancl S~ars has, if you' 11 read what they
gav~ to the city council as a-- back then, it is
very -- they hav~ an awful lot of stipulations, whether
Pric~ could ev~r come up with them, I don't know.
Then t~ontgomery ~7ard's, it is very short.
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"I wrote you this l~tt~r of interest in becoming a
partner of sho~ping." Letter of interest only.
Shopping cent~r at I-~4 and Eagle.
Your Shopco. "Since we plan on joining
your clevelopment in Twin Falls and Pocatello, we would
also be interested in investigating the possibility of
joining the Eagle Road." No commitment.
ZCT~~I, by this letter -- you see these are
all excerpts from these letters that were given to the
council. "ny this l~tter I would like to r~confirm our
commitment to your r~gional mall cievelopment to be
co-enltered with Sears and JC Penney's." There is no
doc,~nplay as s~ated in tnere. "c~~e didn' t want
r~o~~~ntown." But they saic3 no specific site.
As f~r as I'm concern~d this site, which is
r~a11y th~ b~s~ si~e ti~~r~ can be is at th~ t~Zeridian
exchange cah~re i~ will benef it th~ city more than it
will out ther~. It will harm -- they are taking land
that is zon~d for single family residences. One
anne~ed and zonec~ for busin~ss. I can't see no family
ri:ka, whic~ I dan't b~li~ve is correct. Thank you
very mucr~.
t~lAYOR KIr1GSFORD: Delbert P~iatlock fallowed by
Cheryl t~~atlock.
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DELBERT tIATLOCi:~
having b~en first duly swarn, gave the following
st~t~rn~:nt:
t~iR. I~1~TLOCK: Could I get on~ of those sketches
brought aver here for a second.
Okay. This is my hause right here. This
is wh~re we live right here (indic~ting>. The impact
on a niall, as far as I'm concernecl, would drop the
current market l~vel of our property in case we wanted
to s~ll dawn the roac~. Also, the wid~ning of Eagle
Roacl here, we YYave one access road that would come out
onta Franklin.
~nd what this is going ~.o do to us in the
futurc a~ far as getting out, a projected 36,000 cars,
5,p00 cars af which th~ mall is supposed to have an
irr~pact on, I just want to knaw who's responsibile for
that, T~Zr. tfiayor? Do you -- woulu that be the highway,
right?
I'~I~YOR KIr~1GaFORD: It is the highway. ~~e dan' t
own th~ circuits.
T~~R. NiATLOC~:: But that is all I have on this
subject. Sa thank you very nuch.
P~~,AYOR KINGSFORD: Delb~rt, I commend you for
b~;ing the first speak~r to stay under the limits.
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Okay. Cxz~:ryl I~latlocit ~ollawec~ by Jor~n Schmek.
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CI~ERYL I~TATLOCF:,
h~ving b~en first c~u1y sworn, gave the following
sta~~r~~~nt :
P~iI2S. Y~IA'rLOCI~: That was my husband that spoke
ju~t previously. I'm rath~r concerned about fire
protection witk~ th~ mall going in. Is the City of
t~i~r idian goinq to be able to af ford it?
~~~e have the t~ieridian Volunteer Fire
Departnlent. What happ~ns if we have a fire out at our
house ana the city isn'~ able to provide for that
service, claES our hause burn down because there is not
~naugh fir~rn~n to come and take care of it? There
isn"t ~nough ec~uipment to fight it.
I also have a concern for my children with
the increas~ in ~he traffic caused by the mall.
Th~y're pretty much limited to staying right insic3e of
aur subdivision, because I certainly don't want to let
a six-year-old chilcl out of the subdivision into that
much traf f ic.
Thank you.
T•~AYOR KINGSFORD: John Schmek followed by
Patricia Ruyf.
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JOFIr~ SCH~~~EK,
having been first duly sworn, gave the following
s~atement:
T~IR. 5CHt1EI:: I' 11 keep it real brief. I have
already given n1y opinion as a businessman, but I'd like
to do it as a family.
This valley needs a little bit of growth of
some kind. And if we don' ~t start looking a little
farther ahead insteac~ of behind, we're going to get
ourselves in trouble.
This is something that this whole valley
ar~d IIois~ has been doing, they keep saying, Well, we' re
going to, we' re going 'to, we' re going to. And we have
nev~r done anything.
All I'm asking is let's give these guys a
chance. Let's get something going. Let's at least
try. T~leridian is going to have to have a fire station;
~they are going ~o have to have more pol ice. They are
going to have a lot more and now is the time to look at
it. Let's start giving ourselves a reason for it.
Thank you.
t~IAYOR KINGSFORD: Patricia Ruyf is the next
speak~r. If I could have your indulgence for a second.
Gr~g Richardsan, did you plan to speak? You didn't
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sign one way or the oth~r. Ar~ you here?
l~ VOICE : I th ink he lef t.
i~iAYOR RItIGSFORD: He probablY doesn't want to
sp~ak then. And Donald Class (phonetic)?
( TJo response. )
t~1AY0R RINGSFORD: Same category that the other
fellaw. Okay. 6~~~' 11 assume not then.
PATRICIA RUYF~
having been first duly sworn, gave the following
statem~nt:
T`iS. RUYF: P~Zy is name Patrici~ K. Ruyf. I live
at 360 ~Zontvue Driv~. Right in the Elbow of that
funny-looking map over there.
Ladies and gentlemen, it looks like we have
gone to -- from the ridiculous to the sublime. Last
~~lednesday night Price Development team spoke to a group
of 20 p~ opl e, which total s a very smal l pe rcentage of
the honl~ownArs in the P~Zontvue Drive area.
In effect, they more or less told us shut
up and eat your oatmeal. The next night there was
selectec~ members of the business comrnunity and members
of the P~Ieridian Chamber of Commerce as honored guests
at the Red Lian in Baise.
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As a former peace officer I worked for a
large metro police department. I served for 67 years
as a police investigator of crimes spawned by urban
shopping malls, perpetuatec3 by the thousands of people
attrac°ted to th~m.
I saw suburbia grow and with it my
department soarec7 from 400 to 1400 officers.
This propased mall may attract 36,000 cars
per day by the promoters' own estimates. We can
therefnre expect crimes against persons and properties
to skyrock~t: auto theft, joyriding, destruction of
prop~rty, traffic congestion ancl injuries,
fendEr-benders, police chases through our streets --
involving cars ~lone.
t~iolests, abductians, neglect, child-induced
car fires, delinc~uency, h~nging out, drag racing are a
few crimes by and against our children.
Armed and strong-~rmed robberies, forgery
arson, burglary, haul-outs, shoplifting, safecracking
wi11 involve the stores and merchants.
These are but a few of a legion of crimes
and incidents th~ alreaay overburdened NZeridian police
and f ire departments will endure. All far from the
cen~ter of t~ieridian and with increased response times.
A three-way interchange moving in four
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c~ir~ctions accommadates rapid flight by robbers of
convenienc~ stores. And our buc~dies' homes are fair
gam~. I hope you never have to hear me say, I told you
so.
In addition to co~ts to life and property,
~7eridian coulc~ double in taxes. Our insurance rates
may escalate due to the increased water tables in our
wel l s.
In Novemb~r 1~82 the t~teridian city attorney
said, In light of the cost factor only, it may well be
that to have any shopping center wauld be financially
deva~ta~ing to P~ieridian. The city cannot deannex the
I,3eridian site; ~ve must live with it.
The developer has not addressed the direct
and indirect environmental impact that may result from
his praposed activity. Adverse and cumulative and
long-terrn effects upon the earth's surface, flora,
f~uria ancl atmosphere as in the rape of the City of
Orange in California and those folks who gave us
Disneyland.
I will request that an environmental impact
study be required.
Finally, this developer has not fulfillec{ a
single ~~romise to t~Ieridian. Please do not cut
o~erating options; leave the doar open for a developer
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who can ~erform with the least personal and social
costs to us all.
Thank you.
T~IAYOR KINGSFORD: The next speaker is
Patri-ck Harbert followed by Kevin Robertson.
, PATRICF~ HARBERT~
having been first duly sworn, gave the following
statem~nt:
t~~R. HARBERT; Basically, I have got a Iot of
conc~rns about t~2eridian and the community. In 1968 I
graduated from hiqh school here and stayed around the
valley for a couple years until I was forced outside
the valley ta find emplayment.
Th~re wasn't rea].ly anything available to
do in Meric3ian. And i finally moved back after seven
y~~rs af absence, and i find the same thing within
t~ler idian.
So what I have been forced to do, and not
really by my own choice, but just the economics of
being an independent businessman is buy a business in
BOl SE:.
One of the things that I would like to do,
is buy a business in the town that I live 'in, that I
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was raised in. Anc7 I think with the mall as an anchor
it will help facilitate me and my vested interest of
wanting to do business within the community that I have
known and loved for a long time.
I have also, in the last three years,
work~d with the Price Developm~nt Company in Salt Lake
City. ~ve as a corporation openec~ a restaurant in a
foa~ park ~hat was co-anchorec~ with -- the restaurant
that I was in involved with, Luther's, a Tlarie
Callenc3er' s a~d a number of others.
I have found them to be a company that
meets their commitments, requires the people that do
busine5s with them, their tenants, to come up front
with the cash. No maybe tnmorrow-type situations with
the Price Cor~pany. They get the money from the tenants
anc3 away we go.
I don' t know that in the last 20 years we
have had a c7evelo~er come to rieridian and make an offer
to go to bat for us so that we might be able to take
c~re of the problems within the community as they sit
now .
Sure we still have a volunteer fire
department. Maybe we can afford to have a real fire
department in thos~ terms of the "big city" or
c~hatev~r, somebody workinc~ th~re all the time, not a
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volunteer situation, with the tax monies supplied by
the mall and the tenants.
That is really about a11 I wanted to say.
Thank you.
P~ZAYOR FCINGSFORD: F:evin Robertson followed by
Howara Fo1ey.
xEVZr~ ROBERTSON~
having been first duly sworn, gave the following
statement:
r7R. RO~E~TSOPI: Mayor Kingsford, members of the
council, ladies and qentlemen, a few months aqo I was
s~rving as acting chief of the RZeridian Police
Depar~m~nt and th~ city council asked me --
A VOICE : Spealc into the milce, please.
PSR. ROBERTSON: Pardon?
A VOIC~: S~eak into the mike.
t~iR. ~ZOI3ERTSOP~: Ladies and gentlemen, a few
months ago while serving as acting chief of the
t~~eridian Police Departnient, members of the council
askecl mE ta prepar~ a report as a means to try to
estimate the increase in calls for service that a
regional mall would generate to the t-ieridian Police
DepartM~nt.
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I went aheac~ and did the repor t as they
r~quested. Anc1 when I submitted the report to them, I
add~c~ a cover sheet to it. And to mare or less make
everynne clear as to where the Iieridian Police
Departm~nt stancls I'd like to read this cover sheet at
this time. (Reading):
The intent anci purpose of this report is to
show the impact a regianal shopping mall located in the
city limits of t~Ier idian would have on the T~Ier idian
Police Department. As preparer of this report I would
like it clearly understood that I along with the police
department obj~ct to the construction of a regional
mall in T~tericlian, nor do we support any one developer
or ma11 sita over the other.
I would also like to say at this time that
the P-I~ridian Police Department encourages and supports
any developm~n~t that can increase economic growth and
b~ an asset ~to the quality of life in this community.
I3opEfully this report will benefit those
who are ~aced with providing the resources that will
allow the Ptl~ridian Police Department to deal with the
demands that will result from this type of a growth and
development in nur community. (End reading.)
In preparing this report, what I did was I
contactec3 the police departments in Idaho Falls,
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Chubbuck an~ N~mpa. And those thr~e citi~s currently
have shopping ma11s in their cities. Howev~~:, none of
those malls are as large as the one that is being
propased in P~ieridian at this time at the Eagle Road and
I-£3~ si~te.
Those statistics were used to compile a
base i n or de r f or me to pr oj ect how many of f ice rs,
increase in equipment, that type of thing that the
police departr~ent would need.
I also used statistics from the existing
busin~sses in ~leridian. In compiling these statistics
I did come up with an av~rage number of calls per month
per stor~ that w~ can expect from a mall.
The inter~sting thing is that those malls
in those thre~ cities and the current businesses we
hav~ in T~~ieriaian all have about the same average. That
average works out to be about 2.7 calls per store per
y~ar.
The thing that you have to look at when we
talk~c7 abou~ that, is most of the calls that we get
from businesses are calls that are such things as
issuing checl~s without funds, forgery, ill~gal use of
credit card~, ~haplifting, th~fts, burglary, and to a
small extent, armed robberies.
I caant you to understand a lot of those
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crimes or a majority of those crimes are ones that
r~quire a large amoun~t of follow-up investigation; that
is, they are not something that can be handled
immediately by an officer that gaes to the scene and
can take a report anci it is taken care of.
In looking at what we have to cope with now
in the City of tieridian ancl the size of the Mieridian
Palice Department, also taking into consideration that
if a mall were to go in at Eagle Road and I-84 we would
have to 1QOk at adding officers on the department not
only to handle the increase in calls, but the fact that
w~ wauld be servicing an area as far as police services
are concerned that we don't even do now. It is not in
the city limits.
In my estimation, looking at a mall this
size, th~ number of stores, we coulc~ expect an increase
of 250 ta 300 reportable crii:~es a year from that mall.
Th~at m~y be a little low, because the statistics I
obtainea from those other departments does not include
traffic accidents or traffic complaints that require
traific enforcement, ~hat does not include reports
non-reportable calls for service.
And what we mean by that is if we get a
call b~cause som~on~ has a stalled vehicle or that type
of thing that the officer goes out maybe to assist a
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citizen, but it ia not a criminal activity, there is no
report taken.
Another thing that doesn't include is calls
ar crim~s in which a citizen is a victim rather than a
business. If you have your vehicle parked out at the
shopping center, someone broke into it, you are the
victim, not th~: business. So that 250 to 300 calls a
y~:ar would probably -- reportable crimes would not
include individuals a; victims, mainly the businesses.
That also doesn't include initial reports
from any businesses that may start and sprinq up in the
area b~cause of the mall.
In orcier for us to increase the Meridian
Police D~~artrnent ta where we could load up our shifts
~o wh~r~ w~ would have adequat~ cov~rage and have
acleyuate r~s~onse ~im~s to em~rgency calls and be abl~e
to muster ~nough people to cover emergency situations,
we woulci have to probably increase the P~ieridian Police
D~partm~nt by six to eight officers. That is a
mininlum.
In looking at that ~ype of increase in our
police departrnent, using figures from this year's
budg~t and figuring an increase in salary for that many
offic~rs, insurance, ~ae would need approximately four
mor~ vehicles, the cast of runninq those vehicles,
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1 m~intaining thase, et cetera, you are looking at an
2 increase the first year of about 5250,000 in the police
3 de~~rtr~ent' s budget.
~ This would allow us ta maintain the level
5 of s~ rv ice that we have now. If we were to not have
~ th at much, it would be a thing of our response times ~o
7 certain types of calls woulci increase. There is a
B possibility that we would have situations where there
~ would b~ ~mergency calls and ~~e would have to try to
10 pull officers off of other calls to responcl, therefore,
11 your response time goes up there~.
12 Another thing, if we don' t have the
13 officers, the officers' safety is not good because of
14 the fact that -- if officers are asked to respond to an
15 alarm c~11 or r:~ayb~ a rabbery in progress, those type
16 of calls you n~ec~ backup units.
17 And ~aithout six to eight officers we
1~ couldn't maintain enouqh officers on call to what we
1~ would probably have officers going to alarms, fight
20 situations, et cetera, nnt only in the mall but
21 ~hroughout the city. Where yau have got one officer
22 gaing on a ca11 like th~t, that is extremely hazardous.
23 Also with that number of officers we would
2~ be able to, like during peak hours, probably keep a
25 v~hicl~ -- or a v~hicle anc~ an officer in the area of
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~.h~ mall and on Eagle P.oad to handle traffic problems.
That is all I have at this time.
t~iAYO~ KIt~1GSFORD: Any questions?
F~~R. BRE~~7EF:: Just one. Some of your statistics,
F:evin, are really out of sight in comparison to other
studies that have been done in regards to security in a
regional shoppinc~ center. And that is, I can' t help
but believe on -- good on-site security deters a lot of
crime ~hat might ordinarily takE place if they weren't
there.
Do you bElieve this coulci, taking that into
good hanest realistic values, change your estimates?
l7P. RQBERTSON: Nat a whole lot, Councilman
Ere~a~er. Two of the malls that I contacted do have
s~curity and those police departments spoke very highly
of th~ security they had at their malls.
Th~ problem that we have in Idaho, ~he way
the state laws are, basically what security guards will
do, is they are nothing more than a-- somewhat of a
deterrent. Security guards have no power of arrest any
mor~ than a citizen's arrest. And if they do place
someone und~r arrest, the tJTeridian Police Department
will have to be~ sumnoned to take reports, transport the
suspect to jail or whatever has to be do ne.
So the statistics I have got are from two
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ma11s ~ha~ do have security.
Mi~. BREW~R: Thank you, Kevin.
P~ZAYOR KIr~dGSFfJRD: The next speaker I have is
Howard Foley followed by Bobbi Layne.
~iOV~ARD FOL EY,
h~ving been first duly sworn, gave the following
s~.atement:
t7R. FOLEY: In prefacing my remarks, I want to
also indicate that I own real properties within the
City of I~leridian, 77 East Idaho in I~~eridian and 815
Ea~t First Str~et in t~~eridian.
T•~r. I~iayor, members of the city council, the
topic which is noticec! for this evening involves the
amendm~nt to the comprehensive pian to the City of
I~Zeric3ian to allow more than one regional shopping
c~nter.
I hav~ asked to speak to you and testify
tonight from twa perspectives. One as an individual
businessman in P~Teridian. And seco ndly, as the
Pr~sident of the f•Zeridian Chamber of Commerce.
Inaividually I' m absolutely convinced that
~he application that i5 before you now is I~Ieridian's
shat at a regional mall center. Never before in the
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volum~s, pap~r, articles or testimony that we all have
b~.~en ~hrough in these past few years concerninq the
regional mall site in t~leridian have we had a combined
fact of a site that is large enough to accommodate the
number of anchors anc3 other tenants necessary for a
truly successful site.
T~1umb~r two, we have never had a site who
produc~d a number of letters of intent or interest or
commitment or v~hatever you want to call it. We simply
hdv~ never had any other letters ever before. We have
heard a lat of discussion about letters that are on
thei r wy or that they are in the mail concept, but they
riever arrived.
F,nrl I commit that to you as part of the
commitments ~hat John Price and Claremont Development
is abl~ to bring to this site.
~~ae never had a substantial lender in
bringine~ aur financial services expressing the
willingness ~o accept and process a planned development
mall t~asec~ upon those potential levels. That is the
significance, I think, of the statement from Meridian
financial services that they are willing to proceed
ahe~cD based on thos~ lEt~ers.
And never be~ore have we had an
acknoc~~ledgrn~:nt where r~development in downtown Boise
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w~s f a tal .
~~~ presid~nt of the Chanber of Commerce I
ap~ointeci a sp~cial task force to study Meridian's
thr~e shopping center sites. On Vdednesday, t-1ay 29 of
'B5 that committee rendered a written report to the
boarr~ of directors. Ancf I have be~n charged by the
boarr~ of c~irectars to read thc following statement as
the pasition of the Chamber. (Reading.)
t~e believe that all three current sites,
Fai rv i~w and Eagl e Road, Eagl e Road anci I-84 , t~ier idian
Road and I-~4 are excellent locations for a regional
shopping center. And that the City of t4eridian sha11
op~ n all doors pos~ible ta each c~eveloper.
It is our opinion that the free enterprise
sys~~r~ shoula be allowec~ ta dictate the location of
that c~nter. W~ support any one of these three sites
anci encaurage the city cauncil to make any necessary
camprehensive ~lan chang~ tn allow that system to work
and not to take a prnt~ctiv~ attitude toward any
particular site. (End reading.)
I~ubmit this as testimony for the city
COUTICI]. •
I ~~ould adc~ that the report was unanimously
ap~roved by the committe~ whos~ names appear thereon
anc~i ur~animously ~~proved by the Chamber boarc7 members
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who wer~ presen~t at that meeting.
In that r~gar~ I have no problem commit~ing
to ynu tonight thait the P•Ieridian Chamber of Commerce
stanus ready to close ranks with you and to participate
fully in any investigation of the concerns that have
b~en exPressed.
~•~1e, as the business benef iciaries of those
concerns, at l~a5t in fire protection, cost of taxes to
our comrnercial property, especially in the advent of
th~ 50/50 initiative are the people who benefit or get
paid th~ lion's share of it.
I know that the councilmen who sit on this
council are businessmen and understand that very well.
t~Te are equ~lly concerned with you about the
price that will be paic~ for police, fire, quick
respons~, water and s~wer C4ats. ~ae are concerned
al~aut ~.71e pravic~ing of ad~quate police, fire response,
water anc~ sewer protection.
t~~e are also interesteci in the revenues that
will be generated from the 100 plus million addition to
our a5sessed valuatian in this community, to the taxing
aistrict such as aur city, to the Pleridian School
District, to the t~Ieridian Free Library District, to the
t~testern Ada County R~creation District, to the i~~eridian
Cemet~ry District.
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1 P~Iembers of the Chamber of Commerce have,
2 withaut doubt, a vested interest in the decision you
3 make tonight. t•~Iany of us, like you, have invested our
4 families, our businesses, our professional lives and
5 our assets in t~Teric~ian.
6 Your decision tonight and in weeks ahead
7 are cruci~l to us. T~~Te do not rely on support from
€3 c~ther outside sources, k~ut rather our businesses. ~ae
9 cio not and are nat recently arrived f rom other states
10 and locales ta com~ here to tell you how to run our
11 city.
12 We have not chosen to locate our residence
13 outside the City of h~I~ridian as some who persuade you
1~ tonic~ht have dane or attempt to persuade you. The
15 entire Treasure Valley and those beyond tonight, as
16 ca~ll as your citizenry anr~ the people that you
17 repr~aent, are v~atchinc~ ~to see what you will do.
1~ Same are hoping ~hat you will turn down
1~ this application, I'm sure, and are anxious to jump at
20 the chance of it.
21 I'm convinced if we c7o not act positively
22, and in a favorable manner, this development will go
23 sam~where else in the Tr~asure Valley.
24 t~~ field tirnidity ag~inst failure, and I
25 ask you not to fail us, the members of the business
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conrnunity. V~e ask you to act responsibily, to work to
protect all of our interests, but let's not slam the
c7oar on this chance because we' re af raid to act or
pursue the answers together.
Know that if we work together we can and we
will r~solve the problens that need to be resolved.
And we will emerge stronc~~r and more unified than when
we began this process.
Finally, we in the business community are
prepar~d to accept and share in the risks that a
regional mall will bring. We simply ask you to a11ow
us to share in the opportunities also.
~~•de are not afraid o£ competition. ti~Te're
afr~ici of lack of growth. You do not stand still; you
either mov~ ahead or you go behind.
As t~2r. Davis said earlier it is our sense
that we've been going behind. I hop~ that we don't
have to have this conv~rsation in a,nother five years
dnd our constituency is do~~~n to r7r. Davis and I.
I ask you to approve the application that
is before you this evening.
PZAYOR KIAIGSFORD: bTr. Foley, for the record and
in th~ in~erest of fairness tonight, I'd appreciate it
if yau' d al so state your a£ f il iation with the
applicant, please.
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T~iR. FOLEY: I'm a partner in the firm of
Fol~y & Lance, and we represent Claremont Development
Company and the Pric~ Company.
rli1~Y0R KIPJGSFORD: Thank you. The next speaker
is Bobbi Layne followec~ by Robert Gass.
BOBBI LAYtdE,
having been first duly sworn, gave the following
statement:
P~2~2S. LAYNE : Fi r st of al l, I' d 1 ike to say that
this letter is put together by my husband and myself.
It has been endorsed by two other homeowners in our
subdivision, one being Loren Sanderson, the other b~ing
F:ay~ and Howie ~~Tatson. 6~~ live about one-half mile
from the proposect sit~ of ~he shopping cent~r on Eagle
Roa d and t~~ontvue Dr ive.
t~le ~re well aware of the fact that once the
connector is buil t, it will become comrnercially
attractive. Eag1e Road is already a state highway and
will be the main li.nk bringing the interstate to north
Ic~ahcs I -- Highway 55.
Boise is not goinq to have a downtown
shoppi ng ce nter. P~iany of us knew that 1 ong bef or e they
did. Eagle Road is not that far to c7rive to shop, but
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p~ople would think twic~ if they had to drive to
I•Ieridian and a~ternpt the eltreme congestion that would
certainly come to downto4~n Meridian.
There is no way of making room for the
traffic that I can see without tearing out businesses
~xisting on First Street. The downtown area of
I~~eridian cannot handle with ease the traffic they have
ri0 W ~
j~hat kind of congestion would be created if
people trying to get to the shopping mall from Fairvi~w
Avenu~ had ta com~: through t~7eridian to get there?
~~ith the access to ~he f reeway and the
widening of Eag1e Road i~ seems to me that that site
would run a lot smoo~her ~nd be a lot more attractive
to sl~op~~~rs.
'~he noise associated with
cent~r could be minimized by required
~s birches, shrubbery and fencing. I
prefer cahat Price Development is prop
som~~ahere do~an the road maybe looking
going in.
the shopping
landscaping such
certainly would
~sing opposed to
at a truck stop
Eagle F.oad ha~ already been discovered for
its commercial value. ti•lhat with some wholesaler on one
side, Alb~rtson's center on the other anc7 the ultimate
d~velopment going in at Fairview and Eagle Road.
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Pe~ople living in the affected area of Eagle
~.oaa ~uch as ourselves and critics cannot isolate
ourselves and expect to have Eagle Road to Franklin and
Overlana all ta ourselves. That would be a huge
investment for the State of Idaho and for the few
pc~ opl e 1 iving between those two points.
Finally, it should b~ noted that Eagle Raod
bec~me a prime target for development the day it openec3
the freeF~ay with through traffic.
Thank y ou.
TJiAYOR I:IPdGSFORD: Robert Gass followerl by
Lelanc! Hansen.
F.OI3 ERT GAS S,
h~ving bc;en first duly sworn, gave the following
s~tat~r~~n~t:
hiR. GASS: Ladies and gentlemen, as a new
businessman in this community and having quite a few
peapl~ ~aarking for me, whom have all heard the stories
tha~ are involved with this mall and believe me, they
~re all excit2d about it. I'm excited about it. I
think it is good far the cammunity. And I hope that
the council will give this site at Eagle Road and I-84
most -- utmost consideration. I think it is cvell worth
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~h~ ~rouble. And we want it. Thank you.
I~ZAYOR KIidGSFORD: Lelancl Hansen followec3 by
Stcven Smar~.
LELAZ~D HAi1SEN~
having Ueen first duly sworn, gave the following
stat~m~nt:
T`iR. HANSEid: t~I~yor Kingsford and members of the
city council, I f~el som~what like Peggy Lee after the
presentation we have heard here tonight from the Price
and Claremant people and their famous song, Is that all
there is?
6~Te have been played with how many years?
G~~as it 20? 20 years of development of the regional
r~1~11 in ~this area, .and here we're talking about
something that can be put toqether in a matter of
week~.
From the looks of things and the way it has
b~en present~d here tonight som~thing could be put
tog~ther with the decision being mac3e rather quickly.
And I commend those that have macle the presentations
for the factual information they have prese nted.
I only hav~ a couple of questions th~t come
to my mind, anc3 I' m sur e they can be answer2d. The
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qu~stions, of course, have ta do with the proximity of
~he mall ~o the city services. I think that is
probably our major concern that I hear coming from
many, many sourc~s here tonight.
6~ithout knowing the details and not knowing
the facts, those are the c~uestions that I would like to
s~e answered. How much more feasible is it to go with
the I-84/Eagle Roac1 site as compar~d to the propose~l
gald~n opportunity site.
The only thing that I have to say is this:
I have the curiosi~y; I don't see the word cautious up
there. I just hope you have the courage. And I urge
you -- urge the P~ieridian City Council to act in favor
of aMending the comprehensive plan for a regional
shopping ceriter.
Thank you.
I~~AYOR KINGSFORD: Steven Smart followeci by
F:~nny a3~wers.
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STEVEPI St~1ART~
h~ving been first duly sworn, gave the following
s~atement:
~~iR. SP~TART: l~~ayor, council of the City of
~~leridian, I'm pleased to be able to attend your public
hearing tanigh+t. I have been aware of a number of
concerns, I guess, mostly seconc~ and tnirdhand, for
three or four years.
I was f irst approached by P~Zr. YJorkman
(phonetic) in the City of Chubbuck, and I'm not sure
haw long ago it ~aav, two, three, four years ago about a
tl~~n cleveloper who praposed a development, I believe it
was at his site.
And he was c~uite interested in the impacts
th at that development -- or Price's development in the
City r~f Chubbuclt had on us. And so I would 1 ike to
shar~ with you soMe of our experiences.
And on~ of the presentations that -- by the
Claremont-Price people they indicated that the Chubbuck
~:xperi~nce was positive. And it was indeed.
I started to work wi+th the City of Chubbuck
in 197~. And abou't that time Price Development began
the nec~ssary approval and zone change procedures to
d~velap a 50-acre site within the city limits of
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Chubbuck. An~ that -- that site has direct access to
Interatate ~4, ~nd is a current regional shop~ing
cen~er d~veloped by the Price people.
It's yeah because it is -- or to our
si~ua~tion, I guess, b~caus~ it is the largest business
comr~unity we have in the City of Chubbuck by far. And
it sits -- it borders our city, adjace nt to the City of
Pocatello, those who of you are not familiar with the
geoc~raphy of Chubbuck and Port Hope.
Again it is larger than any of the -- any
sho~ping mall in that metropolitan area. Utilities
were already at the site, water anc7 sewer. And the
dev~laper m~r~ly hac~ to connect ta them, pay the
n~ces~ary co~ts for s~rvice fees, connections and so
on, which th~y gla~ly dic~.
One industry that f ronts the site is the .
stat~ highw ay and you'll see the City of Chubbuck and
thus th~ department of highways was involved in
ap~rovals and so on.
All during the approval proce~s, the
prelirninary pracess we had positive -- a good positive
ex~~rience with the Price people. They are very
professional ancl we fe1~t good about them.
ti~7~ had a great deal of concerns, just as
I'm sure you clo, as to just e:cactly what impact it is
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goinc~ to have. V7e hac3 nowhere to turn really tn
d~t~rmine what impact it woula have.
And so we ul~imately faced the Price people
~s b~s~. we cauld, up front, ancl began following all the
n~cessary arrangements.
There were some concerna at the time about
our police and fire departmerit. T~a~ had a volunteer
fire departm~nt as you do. The volunteer fire
c.ie~artment is about 21 or so, 21 or 22 volunteer paid
m~mb~rs. Some of them are paid volunteers, but they
are paic~ a nominal f~e based on their time that they --
that they serve the fir~.
t~Tell, anyway, Price Development came in and
th~y built this mall shortly after a couple of large
r~atels built. And those businesses, the motels and th~
mall bU51h@5S convinced the fire c7epartment and the
city council that a-- one more piece of fire apparatus
added ~o six others would be necessary and that would
be a 75-foot ladder truck, pumper truck. .
And we have six pieces of apparatus because
w~ have t~ao county contracts. ~~le contract to two
county fire districts and so that necessitates some
~xt,ra pieces of ec~ui~~ment.
[~Tell, that is about the only effect that we
have sec~n so far on our fire department is the additian
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of one large piece of ec~uipment. And it is indeed
expensive. In r~tros~ect th~ city council would
prob~Uly li}c~ to have approached Price in some
con~ideratiQn in helping to acquire that piece of
ec~uipment. But we did it on our own and without the
help of Price.
Our polic~ department had a total of nine
m~n at the tim~. Thos~ were detective and patrolmen
type people. About six of them were on patrol,
d~penciing on the work loac3 and so on.
After the mall opened in 1981, one more
detective was addeci to ~h~ force. One more man
ess~n~ially spans the primary workplace, doing kinds of
things that I believe your chief or your acting chief
adclr~ssed; chasing checks and shog~lifting, and things
af those ty~e.
The police ciepartment prepared a mall team,
an alarm t~am to -- to converge on the site if any
burglar alarms were t~ be set off. And this alarm team
is mac~e up of volunteers who essentially serve as
off-c~uty policeM~n. And they are all in the radio
comnunication and have some means to be alerted to the
~larm and canverge on-site in terms o~ the alarm.
Thps~ really, ar~ the primary impacts of
th~ primary mall in the City af Chubbuck as far as the
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~alice are concerned. Granted, thi~re are a lot of
crim~s that w~re given to you, you knaw, here by your
chief .
Bu~ the bottom line in the City of Chubbuck
has been the addition of one man on the police force.
t~ae feel very fortunate. I'm sure that as far as the
vie~a of ~the security of the syst~m, the mall has of
course o~her mall operations.
The additional revenue brought in by the
mall was minimal. Anci I believe the economic anal•ysis
that yUU heard as far as the presentation was fairly
accurate, because it represents probably a true
praportion compared ta ours.
Th~ revenues w~re very srnall under current
~a~~ law. Su~c as w~ try ~c~ br~~k clc~c~n ancl have talks to
th~ ci.~y, i~. also c~e~~s not h~v~: ~ larg~ impact compared
ta the rest o~ the tax base that it supports and helps.
ti~~e have had very good positive strings with
Pric~. They have been doing business in the city for
nearly four years, besic~es the three years of -- two or
three years that they were going through the
app].icatian ~rocess.
~hey have been good to work with, had
positive ~:xperience, and they have done things that
th~y promised they wauld, they have b~en up front with
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their dev~lo~ment and in the ap~aroval process. ~~~e felt
good about it and confid~nt in being able to deal with
t h ~n1.
I~nd I guess I would like to l~ave you with
that irnpression of Price thernselves. They have built a
very attractive and well managed shopping center that
cae' re proucl to have in the city.
Anc~ I' m sure the Ci~ty of Pocatello was
prauc3 to have it also. It is a very nice addition.
I don' t bel ieve I have any rnore to add at
this time. I appreciate the time you have given me.
f~iAYOR f:IIdGSFORD: P~Ir. Smart, Nir. Tolsma has a
c~u~:stion.
P~i~2. TOLSt~~iA: How far away is the Chubbuck
volunteer fir~ department from the mall?
T~iR. SMART: About three-quarters of a mile.
PiR. TOLSti~A: How far away is the full-time
Pocat~llo Fire D~p~rtmcn~t from the ma11?
I~~3R. SNiART: Probably three miles would be the
nearest station. I couldn't tell you f or sure.
P•~R. TOLSt~7A: Could you check on that for --
I'~1F.. 5A'lART: Y~s.
i1F.. t~1YE~S ; FIow big i s that ma11?
P~iR. SA~~RT: I coulan' t tell you square footage.
I r~ally can't tell you any other cletails.
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F~R. I~IYE~RS: I j ust wanted to knaw com~a r~d to
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what this one --
NiR. Sf~IART: I' m sure ther~ it would be smaller.
t7AY0R KIi1GSFORD: One question I just have. I
guess I wasn't cl~~ar with an early speaker, either
t~ir. Davidson or t~~r. Rasmussen. They said you were
going to speak on yaur own. ~dhat is your motivation
far coming over?
t1R. SP~~aART: I was invited by Price to give you
our impressions and our experience with Price, Price
D~v~lopment. ~nd try to relate to the City of Meridian
anr~ citizens our experience and the impact it has had
on us.
~~~IAYO£~ I:IZ3GSFORD: I ju~t caa~n't clear on that.
~ny ath~r questions?
( P1o response. )
Ti~YOR IiINGSFORD: Thank you. Kenny Bowers
fallowec7 by St~ve Gratton.
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10 ~4
i~ETdhIY B0~"IEF.S,
h~ving b~~n first duly sworn, gave the follawing
st~tem~nt:
r•IP.. BOG•IERS: To the P~Iayor and councilmen, this
stuc3y, these figur~:s that I have for you tonight are
no't strictly for the Claremont Dev~lopm~nt area. This
is for any area that you guys are interested in putting
in a mall.
''i'o the I~iayor and councilmen, with a
propose~l shopping mall within the T~~eridian area, as
P~~i~ric3ian fire chi~f of the ~Z~ridian City Rural
Voiunt~eer Fire D~partment, we believe we w~uld not be
abl~ to provide the necessary fire and medical
~rotectfon that this develog~ment waulct recuire.
~dith the current s~tr~in on the volunteers
w~ f~~l th~ adc~itirrn of full-tim~ personnel to solve
this strair~ with pay and volunteer department. ti~lith a
mall this size, this coulc~ increase aur calls 15 to 20
percent annually.
With the influx of people and developments,
these figures could increase dramatically. In order
for the T•Zeridian City Rural Valunteer Fire Departm~nt
~o m~intain a high lev~l of servic~ with the increase
in calls, c~~~ saould need ~o increase the personnel and
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~c;uipn~~:Ynt.
Sc~rne of th~m project cos~ts of trying ta
ma~intain th~ sarn~ levels of servic~ are listed below.
A new east sid~ fire station, remodel and add upstairs
tr~ ~xisting station, spare hose and miscellaneous
ec~ui~~ment, 1500 gallon GPM pumper truck, one
tela-squirt truck, one squad truck f or medical, two
~c~uipp~d cars, 15 fir~ figtzters and officers, secretary
with wages and b~nef its.
Our annual budg~t will be approximately
$E00,000 plus if the above project is implemented.
T~~IR. ~RE~7EIt: That 800,000 you are talking about,
Kenny, would that includ~ wh~t your present budget is
or is ~izat ar~clitinnal buc~get?
t~iR. ~O~~~ERS: That caould include our present
budget.
i~iPo. BREG^dER: ~~~hat is the present budget right
noc~~ ?
t~IR. ~C7T~aERS: 100,000 right now. Very low for
the square mi1~s t ha~ we ha ve to protect. Yes,
P~Tr. Giesle r?
i~SP.. GIESLER: C~~here did you come up with your
informa~tio n?
fi~~R. BO~~~~ERS: Okay. On the trucks, on the
equiprnent ~hat we are gning to have to need, came from
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~he Iclalifl Grading ~iure~u, they propase -- since we will
b~ three mil~s away from our home station, that we
woulc~ need ta add another engine, another tela-squirt,
possibly another medical unit because of our response
time from our station at 728 P~leridian Street.
~iP.. BREti~1ER: K~nny, in that meeting was it not
also determined, though, that none af this would have
ta take place if the shopping center could enjoy an
eight firc rating?
~•ii~. BO~~ERS: Out in that area at this tim~, I
believe the fire rating is a nine.
P~R. BP.E~•dEF.: Yes.
I,1R. BO~~JERS: From my understanding, maybe I got
it wror~g from Vick TZorrow ancl Doug Gillen (phonetic)
their rating, even wi°~h this equipment, woulc~ still
a~ay at a nine.
I rnight b~ misunderstanding, but that is
~~ha~ I~.hough~ h~ said, Bill.
tiR. BREC°~ER: They w~re talking eight and a half,
nine, in ~there. And did they alsa say that t~teridian
would continue to enjoy the five that we have at this
tim~?
t•IR. 130tldERS: As you and I both understood this
an~ tal~:ing with some other people, they didn't know
that if that area would come in as a nine ratinq fire
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insurance, that otYier parts of the City of ~~eridian
stay five. Anci that is what I understood -- I took him
ta und~rstanc~. The other areas in the city would stay
a f ive.
T•iR. BP.EPd~P : Thank you.
t~IAYOR F:IidGSFORD: Other que5tions?
(No response.)
t1AY0R KINGSFORD: Thank you. Steve Gratton
folloeaed by Dick t~~illiams.
STEVE GRATTON~
having been first duly sworn, gave the following
s~atement:
AIR. GRATT0~1: I~~ayor, members of the tyleridian
City Cnuncil, as you are aware the issue before you
tonight is the proposed amenr~ment to the comprehensive
g~1~n, nat the ann~~~atic~n ay~d zoniny af th~ site.
Y b~liev~ most of ~h~ valid concerns that
h~ve been voiced here tonight can be resolved or at
least addressed with the pre-annexatian agreement
negotiations.
I believe that by the testimony that has
been pres~n~ted h~re tonight it is proven that this sit~
ct~serves further consic~eration by the city. I would
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th~r~f ore urge you to favorbly approve of ~this
amendm~n~ to the comprehen~ive plan and begin
n~gotiations of a pre-annexation agreement for the
develo~ment.
Thank you.
F~AYOR KIIJGSFORD: Dick ~~Jilliams followed by
t~~:slee Haalst. t~~ight I ask, pl~ase, those people in
the back, if yau wish to discuss this, would you please
go outside?
RICHARD ~aILLIAT~IS,
having been first duly sworn, gave the following
statemen~:
P~aP.. ~^1ILL IAP~Ji~ : It' s ge tti ng 1~te, hav ing f un. Piy
name is Dick Williams. I spen~t six years on the city
council, ~nd I have been in the saMe situation you
g~ntlemen have.
I guess my concern over this proposal is --
I do hav~ a number of concerns. Bob Davis, for
exam~l~, spok~ about businesses that were clasec3 in the
City of t~2~ridian in the last few years. Now, that is a
problem. Unfortunately it is going to continue to be a
problem, not only i.n r~ieridian but throughout the
cauntry.
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t~iy concern in that regard is that in all
the testimony that w~ have heard tonight regarding this
com~rehensiv~ ~~lan change or what a boom this mall will
be, I really haven't heard any commitment from
t~Tr. Price or the gentl~man that is Claremont as to what
th~y are going to do to help downtown Meridian.
If you move ~ reyional mall three miles out
of town, it is gning to have an adverse effect upon the
busine~ses of t~a7eridian.
Ta{ce for eYample, Fruitland, Idaho. How
m~ny of you have ever b~en through Fruitland and seen
the businesses there? It is bypassed. I have a
fe~ling that ~voulc~ happen in Ialericlian. I'm concerned
abaut th~ property values, about the existing
buainesses in I+Ieridian. How will they survive? Will
they survive? Or will they jus~t pack up and go perhaps
tr~ I-~4 and E~gl~ P.oar~?
Th~ revenue proj~ctions of Mr. Price by his
own acimission sho~~~ec3 S10 million in revenues, all
en~cities of government. It was a very interesting
~ca nomic analysis, but what the development -- or what
the developer project is paying in taxes, won't go to
t~Ieridian, it will go to everybody but tileridian.
By his o~~n ac7mission, right now if this
mall were built the city w~uld be upside do<<~n in terms
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oF cas~s and r~venues anywhe~re from 500 to 5750,000 a
y~ar by th~ develop~r's own admission.
~y this he projected -- what he has said is
that it wi11 cosc the city, and I believe this is
T~Ir. Hansnn's t~stimony, 5750,000 to S1 million a ysar.
In his addition he has said that the City
of I~~ieridian will net $200,000 in taxes from all
~ources. e~aho's going to pay the c3ifference? ~~e can't
cr~ate r~oney as a city or as a state even.
Unfortunately only Uncle Sam can print
rnoney and h~'s ~arinting too much of that himsel~. This
will b~ intere~ting to see how the city of t•ieridian
incr~~ses their tax revenues by $750,000 a year, when
your a~ valorErn ta~:es right now are about 5350,000.
In oth~r wc~rcls, you are going to get more
than tripl~ ~tax2s in order to brea.k even. I just say,
~°~~11, we can't do that. It is im~~ossible. It puts the
city in an economically -- from a government standpoint
upsicie do~,~n, sevarely upside down.
~i'hey wer~ sup~osed to have resolved these
dollars and cents issues before tonight. Yet we hav~
talkcr~ about, ~~ae' 11 sit down ancl neqotiate; we' 11 sit
dawn ancl talk. Their plans ar~ very nebulous; their
commitments are: v~ry nebulous.
It is thiy're determining your needs and
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you' re not, anc~ this is a backwards situation. You
have got to determin~ the ne~ds. we have heard from
the palic~ departm~nt. ti•~e have heard from the fire
c7epartment as to what the costs are going to be. But
nawhere tonight have we heard what the develaper is
going to pay. Som~body has got to come up with this
money, gentl era~n. The taxpayers c~n' t. And you can' t
af f or c1 to ask them to do that.
I r~a11y didn't think that from an economic
stanc3point tha~ this site makes much sens~. I can see
the frustration af ~eople out in the audience over the
testimony; w~ have been wnrkinc~ on this for 20 years.
tve hav~ been working on this for -- that is true. And
nobociy is gding to deny it.
Baise is fatal c~n dc~wntowwn, ancl I think
thr~t wa~ a far~gan~ cc~nclu~ion years ago.
The point of the matter is that we just
can't keep jum~inq from the frying pan into the fire
and ex~ect to come out whole.
I woulcl really urge this council to tak~ a
very harc~ look a~ the econor~ic issues that have been
proposed, sort thern out from th~ emotional issues, the
pressure you hav~ seen in the last 10 c7ays. Put your
rollaways away and look at this -- if the businesses
cteclin~ -- we're talking about a business decision.
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You hav~ ta mab.c a business decision.
You have to make a business decision basec3
upon what Lhis city can afford and what it can't afford
in terms of t~e revenu~s and costs that have been
~aroj ectc~d. Thank you.
P~~11~YOR RIT3GSFORD: T~J~~lee Ho~lst followed by
A1 ~Iarsa~n.
~3E5LEE HOAL~T,
having been first cluly swarn, gave the following
stat~rn~nt:
I~IR. HOALST: I just spe~ak before you on for two
r:~asons, rirat, I've a r~sidence in P~Tontvue Drive.
Right h~re (indicating). I'm impacted by this also.
I'm also a businessman in t=~eridian at 1434 North
I~~~er idian. Contrary to al1 I have hearci, I real ly won' t
get rich by this big development because I really don't
have a thing to do with it.
There i5 -- I look at it from the
standpoint that this interchange that is going to go in
is already d~cided, the four-lan~ or five-lane road is
alr~ady decided. So it is a high visibility area. It
is going to be a business section no matter what we as
r~sidents would hav~ to say about it.
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A truck stap, you can look at it very
f~.vorably. Evidenc~ of this is Flying J, whicn for a
trucl~ to get in is a very, v~ry difficult situation to
g~t to Flying J.
1~na the ancillary businesses that have
projectec~ off of that, it certainly doesn't attract to
a n~ighborhood.
ri~Iy reason f or hav ing a shoppi ng mal l is
that th~y have rnade ~ubl ic coinrnitments that they wil l
givc it landscaping, that it does have management.
Tne~e anchor stores will not stay in a shopping mall
that is not well managed anc~ well kept.
t~d~ can view that in Seattle and Portland or
in sam~ of °~he other ar~as that have these shopping
m~lls, no~. on].y Price' ~, but o~h~r~. Th~y rnaintain a
got~d ar~a or the anchar stor~s will not put up wi~th it.
So it has to be, attractive in order to attract people.
ti°7e really have no choice or option in the
rn~tter of wh~ther it is going to be -- I would like
nothing ~etter than to step out the back door ancl shoot
~ pheasant in thc fall, because it is open land. But
that is not my option at this time. It is going to be
dev~lopeci because of f.he -- of a commercial area.
So I have no reason -- I really love my
are~ anc~ I 1c~ve my neighbors. It is a beautiful
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n~ighborhooc3. But I see no other way in which we can
go ~xcept to ~try ta have a little bit of input into the
type of riev~lopment that it wi11 be. Because right in
my uacfcyarct is where the development area wiZl have to
be.
There is no developrnent that is not without
its price. If our developnlent at t~:eridian and the
interst~te should occur with the impact of traffic
throu~h the Ci'ty of Meridian, taxes would have to be
paid in order to widen the streets, maybe two one-way
stre~:ts through the city.
Residences would hav~ to be -- or a lot of
yards c~ould have ~to be cut docan because of the widening
of th~ streets. So if ~ae shoula have a t4eridian Road
an~i in~erstate devel.opment, we would certainly see the
imp~ct in r~ieridian itself.
The increas~d fir~ costs, the increased
police costs is going to be whether it is at P~teridian
~oad or whether it is out at Eagle Road or wherever it
nigl7t be. D~velopinent is goinq to occur because it is
a busin~ss sit~. :
So in my appeal to the council and to the
maypr that yau look favorably upon this as being an
appartuni~y that f~Ieridian has not been afforded at any
o~:her t~,me.
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Thank you very much.
FIAYOR KIT~GSFORD: A1 t~iarsden fallowed by
Davic7 Davenport (phonetic) .
AL A~~RSDEI3~
having been first duly sworn, gave the following
s~tat~r,t~nt:
L~iR. I~9ARSDEN: C~~ayor, members of the council, and
lac~i~s and gentlemen, I'm here to talk about same of
the ir~lpacts that will occur in this particular area of
ti~r idian.
In the past I have prepared a document for
yc~u -- I hav~ pr~par~c~ a docum~nt for you that would
indicate in your comprehensive planning process and I
would ic~entify what impacts wou~d occur in this
communi~y with or without a regional shapping center.
I'c~ lik~ to go over those mat~ers with you now.
If you look at this diagram, we have
P~er idian Raad, Eagl~ Road ~nc~ the f reeway, and
Claverc~~le Road. Based upon the regional impacts or
the things that are currently underway with the
d~velopment of the f reeway, the building of two
ac3clitional interchanges at Eagle Road anc7 Cloverdale
Ro~c~ with the impact of the location on the railroad
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tracks -- tihere is a set of railroad tracks th~re --
anc~ the rnajor arterials at these locations is, without
a doubt, that development will nccur in these
locations.
Around these interchanges primarily
regional activities will occur araund Cloverdale,
around Eagl~ Road and around P~ieridian Road without or
e~i~th th~ shopping center ancl you c3ecide upon any one of
tln~se locatzons.
In addition to it, because the location of
the I~7~ridian area within an entire regian we expect
that major and manufacturing employnent lacations will
occur at the -- along the railroad tracks at Cloverdale
anc~ Eagle and ar~as between.
Eecause of ~hi~ activity that will occur
av~r a~~rit~ci of time, t~~~ridian wi11 experience growth
in ~hes~ locatians. If you decide a regional shopping
center is to occur at Eagl~e F.aad or P~eridian Roac3, no
matter what, these activities will occur here at these
locations with or without the decision that you make
here tonight. : ~
Th~ reasan they will occur, because urban
dynamics of your community are in such a position that
becaus~ of freeway interchanges, because of railroad
tracks, b~caus~ of arterials, because of the o'ther
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influ~nc~s and items that cut off growth, this c~rnwth
will occur.
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Somebody ha~s mentianec3 an urban sprawl may
occur if you develop an urban or regional shopping
c~nter at Eagl~ or t~Zeridian or Cloverdale. And I am to
t~11 you right no~•~ that it could not be def ined as
urban sprawl, because urban spracal is basically when
you have haphazarr~ development and c~evelopment that
caus~s undu~ burc~en on a community.
That kind of activity will not occur
b~cause anybody on the city council that should be
rc~aking prop~r decisions will make sure that those
things do n~t occur.
Thes~ activities, ev~n though they will
accur in th~ future, it is important for ynu to make
sure that the services wi11 go along with it ancl
ac~~quately serve ~hese functions. And over time these
s~rvic~s will b~ available.
t~notYier poin~ I' d 1 ik~ t~ make, is that you
have conc~rns of public services. If I were a resid~nt
of i~l~ridian I woulc~ be concerned about the costs of
providing-services to a regional shopping center also.
But as a planner I sugg~st i~ you take this
procedur~, first, change th~ comprehensive plan. And
5~condly, whcn yau clevelop in nt~gotiating with Price or
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~om~ oth~r shoppinc~ c~nter develaper, you get into the
n~gotiations of what services should be provided and
who should provide those services at the time.
The logical way, as I suggest, you change
the comprehensive plan to a11oU~ this community to grow
anc~ develop and allow these kinds of activities to grow
and develop on a controller3 basis where you have
control of the zoning and development process very
car~f u11y.
Thank y au.
t71~Y0R KI~dGSFORD: David Davenport followed by
Delores Samuelson. Is David not still here?
(No response.)
MAYOR KIi1GSFORD: 6~~ wi11 move on to
D~lar~s s~mu~lsan.
(No rFSponse.)
t~7~1Y0R KINGSFO~D: we~ 1.1 mov~ right along.
Alan Lance I s~e is still here. Alan Lance followec3 by
Steven Anderson.
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~L AZ~I L APJ CE ,
having been first duly sworn, gave the following
statement:
t~IR. LAri1CE : Ladies and gentlemen, my name is
A1 Lance, I'm an attorney here in P~teridian, Idaho.
And unl~ss Nir. ICingsford asks m~ who I represent, I
re~resent Clar~mont Developm~nt Corporation and
John Price Company.
I am in fact in partnership with
tl~r. Howard Fol~y who spoke here previously on behalf of
himself and th~ t~Ieridian Chamber of Commerce. Unless
anyone thinks that there is any affiliation there, I'd
like to give you the following facts.
In 1980 Presid~nt Richard Terrell and his
board of clirectors at the P~leridian Chamber of Commerce
en~ars~d th~ first si~.e that could praduce a shopping
cent~r here in T~~ieridian.
In 1~81 Presiclent Steve Gratton and his
board of directors endorsed th~ first site that could
~roduce tenants anc~ build a site here in the City of
r~er idian.
In 1952 President Bill Brewer of the
Chamber of Commerce and his board of ciirectors would
~nclorse the first site to builc! a shopping center here
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in the City of t~2eridian.
In 1983 myself and my board of directors
mac~~ the same endars~m~nt. In 1984 Terry Smith anc3 his
board af directors made the same endorsement.
The position of the t~eridian Chamber of
Commerce has been consistent for the last five years
and P~~r. Foley was here ta t~ll you that this evening.
I ~~ould like to take this opportunity Go
correct the r~cord in three respects. Number 1, we
did, Price Development Corporation did invite their
engineers. ~^~e dic~ invite every resident of the t~tontvue
group to meet witlz us. t~Irs. Ruyf was invited as was
her husband Gerry. Gerry c~lled me u~a and respectfully
c3eclined, but T~irs. Ruyf was present.
If they call that a closei~ meeting, I don't
think it purports with the facts. L~dies and
gentl~men, I suggest to you that my clients are very
solicitous of their neighbors ancl w~ i~ave asked for
their positiv~ input. Sc~ to call that a closed meetinc~
dn~s not purport with the facts.
C~uncilman -- former Councilman
~ic9s ti~Tilliams has testifir:d h~r~ this evening. Yes,
Dick in 137a was an avid supporter of the Nahas site at
fiE'~' '1C~lc~ri ROaC~.
~l~hat h~ dic~ this evening, how~ver, was I
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bc~li~ve reveal the authorship of thi~ or~nge propaganda
pamphl~~ that many of you have seen floating around
~own. TheSe numbers and facts misstate grossly the
situation as it exists here in Ib~l~ric~ian.
tr7~ have also heard him misstate the numbers
this evening. The tax r~venues to the City of Meridian
in the first y~ar are 1.~ million dollars. That does
rzot r~present a shortf~ll based upon the testimony
present~ef, that is a surplus based upon the testimony
pr~se nt~d.
Anc~ I understand that T~iz. ~{~illiams had to
drive in from his rur~l residence, and I understand
tha~ he hac~ to drive in from the business of Boise,
Idaho, ~o te~~ify here tonight; ancl I think we should
appreciate that.
V~e hav~ h~ard i.evin ~?abertson who was the
actinq ~~olice chief t~s~ify that his police force wou~.ci
require be~fing u~ for any regional mall site in the
City of teleridian, not the Eagle Road site, but for any
site in the City of t~t~ridian. ~
Fire Chi.ef Ken Bow~rs testified to the same
effect for any site in the City of I~Yeridian. I suggest
to ynu that if h1r. Nahas h~d tenant commitments that my
cli~nts h~ve, he would start building out there
tornorro~~a af~ernoon by applying for a building permit,
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and w~ c~o not hav~ th~ opportunity to negotiate police
d~~aartment and f ire protection with T•Zr. Nahas.
~ae do have that opportunity with my
cli~nts, if you ~aoulc3 read th~ application you would
find that they have agreed to advance to reach a
pr~-annexation agreement with the City of Nieridian
dealing with fire protection, police protection,
prc~paid tax~s and a whole host of other issues that yet
n~~d to be decic~ed.
And I stand here this evening to tell you
that they r~main committed to that pledge. I would
c~.ution you, the City of Meridian does not have
for~ver, for the next 12 years to make its decision.
ta~ have granted t1r. Nahas at 1~leridian Road
a monopoly for the last five years, our long run.
Since 1978 there is one place you can build a regianal
ma11 in the City af ~~ieridian and that is that site.
T~Ir. Ruyf suggested that by sitting c7own
tr;r. l7el Simon ~nd riZr. R. T. Nahas can strike up a
uusiness deal ovcrnight. And I suggest to you that I
doub~ seriously thafi t~7x. Ruyf has ever constructed a
mall caorth $100 million as we are suggesting this
evening.
Therefore, I ~vould ask the city council and
mayor to, this evening, favorably entertain the request
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before you ta c~rant the comprehensive plan change and
l~t' s proce~d with negc~tiations.
Thank y ou all very much for your kind
at t~nti on.
r•~AYOR KIr1G5FORD: T~ir. Steve Anderson followed by
ti~1es j°Torcester.
A VOICE : vdes took af f.
I~IAYOR KI2dGSFORD: Your name is?
P~IP.. FZLIN~: Alvin Kline.
t~1AY0R KINGSFORD: Okay. Then following StEVe
will be Doris Oliason.
STEVE ANDERSON,
~aving b~;~n first duly sworn, gave the fallowing
~~.atem~nt :
T~1R. ANDERSON: First, t~ayor and Councilmen, I
have b~en a~ked by some of the folks in attendance to
deliv~r these this evening, folks that aren't speaking.
They ar~ som~ letters, folks asking you to look
favorably on that. And also a petition that has gone
around the cammunity over the last couple of days. I
believe there is about 300 signatures here asking you
to a~,~prave this applica~ion as submitted.
First, I'd like ta speak as a Chamber
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mernber anc~ the one who is chairman of the site
cammittee that work~d very dilic~ently over the last
nin~ days soliciting information from our community.
th~ d~velopers, the city council and mayor, and
reemphasize that our recommendation to you unanimously
was to look favorably on this application.
Secandly, I would like to speak as a member
af the community and a businessman here for some 12
years, I'm very interes~ed in the economic and future
growth of this cnmmunity. And I would hope that you
would act favorably on this application. And I say
let' s go for it.
Thank you.
t~f~YOI~ KIPJGSFORD; Doris Oliason followed by
Niilt 5utherland (phon~tic) .
DORIS OL IA50N,
having been first duly sworn, gave the following
statement:
MRS. OLIASON: T1y nam~ is Doris Oliason. I'm at
603 Pine in the county, just right outside of the city
limir~, it is on my fence line.
I caould like to point out just -- how do
yau get this thing off h~re? Just pull it off?
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ti~YOR KITIGSFOP.D; Pull it off.
t~IRS. OLIASON: Thank you. I would like to point
out to you folks tonight a f~w little bits of
informa'tian that perhaps you already know, but perhaps
you need to be refreshed upon.
A long time ago 33,000 peopl~ signed their
names to petitions statewide asking for the right to
vote upon urban renewal. Perhaps some of you sitting
hE~re tonight had your signature on one of those
p~titians.
It didn't make any difference whether
33,000 people wanted the right to vote on urban renewal
because this cvas turnec~ down in the Idaho State
Legislature in the House. Representative John
0'Riorcian held all the~e pe titions up and he was turned
down b~cause a couple of other legislators said, We
cannot l~t th~ p~ople vate because they would turn down
the urban renewal co ncept.
t~aell, that was a long time ago and Boise,
Idaho, has now b~come a bedroom com munity apparently
for P~ieridian from all th~ testimony ancl the desires of
the people that want something done here.
I would like to point out something else to
you briefly. In 1977, when the reappraisal was done of
~11 properti~s in Ada County, I have her~ a document
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~,~re~ared by the assessor's office here in Ada County,
which shoca: that in 1~77, the urban renewal land at
that tirne which was tar, exempt could have and should
~nave generatec~ 55,781,000 cahich the people in the
county, that is a11. the property taxpayers -- now when
I say property taxpayers, we have had to pay the taxes
that cloe~ntown Boise is ~xemp~ from by court order by
Juage Durtschi.
Now, if Boise doesn't develop, we are going
to continu~ to pay thos~ taxes, and folks, that is not
right. ~~Ie have a tax load that we have to bear all the
tim~ so that it is going to be an ac~ditional burden.
Ana depene~ing on the taxinq district that you are in
and hoie many ta<,~s you are going to have to pay and how
much af the Iioise dov~nta~an taxea you are going to have
~o ~~.y. But it is amounts to millions anc~ billians of
dollars aince the proj~ct was s~arfed 20 years ago.
Now, this has got to stop.
Now, for thes~ reasons, I will have to say
that this praject must go if it possibly can.
The economy is bac1; it is not qood, could
go down. Banks are failing, savings & loans, farmers
going out, sa on and so forth. But you have to have
hc~p~ in America.
~1oc~, another thing that you should know is
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` 127
this. ~i~hat you hav~ to have your e~;haust systems
t~sted now, don't you, in order to drive your car?
Okay. You will remember that a few years ago the State
of Idaha did -- would not grant a variance to the City
af ~oise to build a downtown parking garage.
Seattle~ EPA testifiecl and said it would not
allow Boise to have a variance to build a downtown
parkiny garage. Okay, all of a sudden i~1r. Andrews was
appoint~d Secretary of the Int~rior, a job in
~~~ashinc~ton, D. C.
Al1 of a sudde n the state comes uncler,
Se~~.tle cam~s under, the variance was kaput. So then,
therefore, HUD came along and granted Baise letters of
credi~ which are still in a federal reserve bank in
San Francisco, which were supposed to be used for
building und~rground parking garages. Whitmore was
going to do this.
Because of ~he $6 million that HUD set
aside for downtown Boise parking garages you have had
to have your cars inspected for exhaust. Because Boise
specified -- I mean the EPA specified that Boise,
Idaho, anci -- well, Boise, Idaho, had to come up with
some kind oF an air quality program.
So ~he Ada Planning Association and the
Boise Ci~.y officials and so farth decid~d that testing
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your car, t~sting the exhaust system of your car was
~h~ best way to go.
P1o~~, [~~hitmore is gone and you are still
having to test your car, because the outgoing county
commissioners passed an ordinance that said you had to.
No~v, thi~ is S10 that you have to put out,
~~ith ~7 going ta the stations ancl S3 to the EPA -- or
~to the air quality program.
t1ow, the air quality is another agency of
bur~aucracy that we don't need, folks, just in order
for Boise ta g~t unc3ergraund parlcing garages. ~9e don't
knaw what cae're gaing to qet now in Boise, Idaho. But
still you are going to have your cars -- you are being
~enaliz~d far downtown Bois~.
I~3ow, ~h+~ sta~ernent w~s made tonight by
T~3r. Davis abou~ all these businesses going out in
f~~~ridian. Gooc~ heavens, I live here; I c3idn't know
that. That is shocking, that is amazing.
I'm wondering how many businesses are going
out in Boise, Idaho, if this many are going out in this
1i~.tle city af Tfieridian. This is really shocking. I
c~idn' t know this.
Now, I want to point out something else.
Some of us wer~ opposed ~to ~the Meridian school bond. I
wa~ featur~ci on Chann~l 7 along with one of the
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t~:er idian scl~aol ai str ic~, of f icial s, I came in seco nd
b~s~.
He indicated that w~ were putting out false
information in our fire we put out, misleading and so
on ancl so forth. So therefore, we were discredited, I
fe~;l, unfairly.
The school district put ouit 22,500
outgrocath fliers -- or newspapers, plus 5,000 more
fliers to counter~xct our flier.
I want to te11 you folks something and this
is serious. t~Then the $12 million bond was passed to
consc~lidate some other bonds passed earlier in 1978,
wh~n that bond i~ paid out in 1998 you will have paid
S36 million.
No~~, thia new bond that was passed when it
is paid out it wi12 be over S17 million. Now, you add
those two together. Anc~ f rom 1~7 8 to the year 200I the
patrons, that is ~he tapayer who has property -- now
this is a property taxpayer, it is not everybody who
voter7 has to pay by any means. You will have paid out
by the year 2001 for those two bonds $53 million
dollar: .
I~ow, you see th~y dicin' t tell you this.
This is nat f~ir and this is not right. And you people
sYYOUIci lsnaw this b~:f orc ynu go ta the polls.
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lJow, we n~c:c~ son~ help out here., folks, to
pay thesE bills. Now, our ow n private taxes, personal
taxes just ~or school alone will be 51,090. That is a
lot of maney.
So ther~fore, if this clevelapment can help
praduc~ rnore income to help pay these bills, then we
b~tter ge~ som~ n~l~.
PZow, I w~nt to also mention for those of
you who probably aI reaciy know and those of who don' t,
our farm is locatec~ on the interchange side of Eagle
Roac~. Some of you will say, Aha, she' s going to come
out a millionaire.
It just sa happens that the Department af
Transportation is going to b~ where it will level our
farmhnu~e ~nd ~ur buildinys for the interchange because
society c~icta~ecl they wanted an interchang~ there
whether we wanited one or not.
So if I make a buck, T tell you this, I'm
going to go to the sh~pping cent~r and buy myself a
bathinc~ suit and I'm going to go to som~ island out in
the South Pacific.
I don't like an interchange where our farm
ia; I like that place. But you see the public wanted
it. So you might say we're goners. We haven't given
an a~~~ian to anybody. Vle haven' t made a deal with
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anybociy. ~~~~e do not know what the appraised value will
be on our place by the Department of Transportation,
but we da kno~~ th~y are going to take it.
So therefor~, forget about us having
sp~cial interests. I still have an interest in
P~I~ric~ian. I have an interest in ~oise. Sometimes I ga
do~an there and I get picked up for making a wrong turn
or something and I get in line with all those other $40
criminals.
But I will say ~his, these people seem a
little more human than ~.ho~e people in downtown Boise,
ia~cause I fought sn m~ny battles with th~ bureaucracy
~that way, I'm coming back home, gEntlemen.
Thank you very much.
T~I~~YOR F~:IT~IGSFO~tD: The last speaker that I have
sign~~i up is P~iel Sutherlanc~. Is t~i~l still here?
(No response.)
P~ir~YO~ I.IPdGSFORD: Tha~. concluc3es thase peoplE
~hat I have as 1ist~c7 to give testimony. Councilmen,
c7o you hav~ any questions, comments?
F~IR. TOLSt41A: I have just a couple.
(Discussian had off the record between
cnuncilm~n. )
I~YAYOR I{ITdGSFOP.D: I wauld at this time be remiss
if I didn' t t~3ank you all for takinq your time anc1
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giving testirElony, thase of you who took ~he time to
give testimony and thnse of you who came just to
listen.
I would like to, at this time, apologize to
~rir. L~wis, my remarks to him in trying to hold the line
~:o three minutes was totally unsuccessful. I realize
a~ he w~s going along, ~~r. Lewis, I apologize. It was
nothing agains~t you, individually. I thought I would
inclucie that.
P~i~2. TOLSP•~A: Ladies and gentlemen, I have
listened to th~ te~timony ~or and against the proposal
on Eagle Ro~cl anci I-84, the revenue projections they
~res~ntecf as costly and not v~stec~ are a long ways away
frr~m the cost the city has projectec3 for the mall.
W~ r~ceivec~ ac~vice from stat~s survey and
rating bureau as stated by our fire chief for the fire,
the water ane~ sew~~r costs af their awn departments.
Th~ police d~,~~,r~m~n~t you heara from earlier.
In regarcl to the previous testimony, we
have a real fir~ c3epartment in Meridian. It is totally
volunteer except for the nart-time fire chief. ti~ae have
the bes~ rating a volunteer fire department can have in
th~ State of Idaha. Vde h~ve some of the best equipm~nt
~hat is availab~.e and best volunteers that are around.
But the fact r~mains that the mall and
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cc~ats u~aulci be~ the straw that breaks the camel's back
wh~n it comes to the volunteer or partial full-time
de~artment.
Sn at this time before I could approve or
clisapprave of ~he mall, I need to see a cost stucly done
on the casts ta th~: city. I for one do nat want to see
th~: City of I~~eridian go into a massive deficit or the
ci~izens of P~Seridi.an to be ta~ed more than they are
today.
If the study sho~as that we can afford the
mall, tllen let's get it underway.
Thank you.
t~IR. BREE~TER: ~~ell, I have a few comments as
we11. t7e hav~ hac~ ta list~n to all of you people; now
yc~u have to list~n to us.
I think the may or and the council would all
agree that the letters that have come in that were
pr~sent~d by C1ar~mvnt-Price developers are not what we
~sk~d for and r~c~uest~d as far as their contacts go.
However, to me their letters are
encauraging. The phane calls to tenants tor]ay that
stay ed an, were, I feel, very sincere and encouraging.
In light of the r~cent events in downtown
Boise anc~ having had nothing but promises from
~~~r. T1a~ias, wham I res~ect very dearly, he' s an
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e..trem~ly ~rafessianal ~erson, I feel at this time ~o
o~e.n our mi.nds ~nc! tak~ on another directian.
I feel we should accept ~Zr. Price's offer
ta fun~ a study, such as P~Ir. Tolsma mentioned, whereby
w~ ~~cpena the funds, the City of t~~Ieridian would try its
very best, hopeful.ly, to select a grou~ of people or
firm ~hat wauld do a very hanest as far as both sides'
inter~sf;.s are conc~rned, as to exactly what costs . are.
There were cost projections again tonight
af~er these many years that I feel are again distorted
maybe fram what ~h~ facts really are. Anc3 it is going
tn hav~ to b~ c]one in a very professional, honest,
manne r.
t~7e, of course, would want to address most
of th~ problems financially that have been mentioned
tnnight in r~garc[s to th~ police, fire and to the city
its~lf.
I~m kinc7 of curious as to what the Boise
Cii~y Cauncil would do if they were sitting in our
position tonight. How c~uickly they would rule on this.
A VOIC£: t~~e are not in IInise.
T~1F.. BF.E~~dER: In fairness -- no, we are not in
~ois~. But it is interesting to kind of try to figure
out what i~hey would be doing. ti~Te'rE always playinq
ba11 with one anather.
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Th~ t^~~at~ark or Cloverdale location, I
c~on't b~lieve, are cor~petitive locations at all when
you comp~r~ them to the advantages of the Eagle Road
sit~. Anc~ I' m convincec7 the maj or tenants want Eagle
Roac1 and I-8~ at this timE.
L~t's all worlc together. Let's get this
ma11 issue se~tlea. However, in fairness to my fellow
cout~cilmen, I'm not at this time willing to make the
motion that I r~ally wanted to make.
I get the feeling that they want to back
off a little anc7 have some studies done. Anc] we' 11 see
c~ahat they might want to do this evening.
Than1~ you. Thank you all for coming.
T~IR. GIESLEI;: I'd just like to say this is my
first tirne and this has really been something else. I
have liv~d in this community from almost day one and
tha~t means an awful lot to m~, as I'm sure it does to
an awful lot of you.
And I'm ~lso a businessman in this
car:lmunity. I don' i~ know exactly what the right and
wrong is in this. I've seen this past study and some
nevr studi~s rnad~, anc~ I re~lly feel that the Price
p~ople maybe have something going. And I really feel
that maybe w~ ought to give th~m an opportunity.
T also f~el that th~: peo~~lE that have built
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this cornmuni~y hav~ a right to do what they -- that --
that th~y have worl•;ed so hard for, that it stays that
way, ~hat we c~on' ~ get ourselves into a problem.
t~~e ~r~ talkinq of a period of 20 years that
w~ hav~ been working on this. l~nd what I seem to hear
~onight, there rnust be a race between Boise and
T•i~ridian. I woulu lav~ to have it here in Taleridian,
don't g~t me wrong.
I think there i~ sorne real advanitages anci
:orae real c~isa~vantages. I thir~k the advantages
outw~igh the disac~vantages, especially after this
ev~:ning. But I feel that we owe it to our -- th~
~aeople in I~:~ridian tonight that we have th~~e finc~ings
~~r~par~:d.
I c~on' t know ~that it i: in the best
.iri~~r~st td nak~ ~ f~vora}~1~ or a cleni~l tonight. I
thi.n}; it is som~thiny that if w~ coulci have a study
rnuc~~ -- I cfon"~ think it would take ver1 long.
Anc~ I think if we we're very sincere on
this, we' 11 wor}. toc;ether in putting this study
tog~fih~r wa.th the Chamb~r, the Price and Claremont
~copl~ anc~ ourselves ~to get this thing out jus~ as
rapidly as ~~J~ can.
Anc~ if I see that this thing will work,
b~>caus~ th~s~ figures letely different than I have ever
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~~:~n b~far~.~, ana I f~el they c~eservc~ the opportunity
anu so ~o the citizens that have built this community.
Anci I v~nuld like to see this study made as quickly as
we can to sec if that' s-- that is the new figures tha~
w~ have now ana they ar~ correct, then, I think it
woulc~ b~: fan~a~tic.
~nd I hope you all uncierstand, and I know
not everyone will b~ happy in making this decision, but
I f~~l that we, owe it to this cor~munity.
This is probably the largest decision that
wi11 ever b~ rnade possibly in this valley far many
y~ars to cor~~e. Anc- I don' t think that we can make this
in a nlatter of ~hr~e ta four hours. Since we have seen
all thia anct heard from a11 of you.
t^le hav~ heard from rnany business people
tonight; ancl I would ask them to maybe look ahead at
what we're up against and try to understand where we're
cGming f rom.
I clan' ~ feel that we can make an absolute
d~cision one way or th~ ather tonight, but I feel real
good about tonight. A lot bett~r than I did going in
tonight.
I guGss that is where I'11 leave it.
t~~1~Y0R FiIidGSFORD: Is it the desire of the
couneil ~o eontir,ue for written testimony? Or clo you
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~vish to have thi~ public hearing closed? [~dhat is your
desire?
t~7~.. I~,YERS: I would think tha~ we have heard a
lot of testimony. ti~~~ hav~ heara a lot of t~stimony anc~
~here has been a lot of for and a lot against. Some
emotianal, anu that is the thing we have to take into
consiaeration, the facts, nat the emotions and the
testimony.
But I would think that -- I kind of agree
~~ith Ba}a, I'm not sur~ I can mak~ a decision one way or
~he other tonight on what we have got here, because I
haven't had a chance to l~ok at a lot of this. And
these fiqures we ~~e toniqht, I think that we ought to
have a cost study clane as soon as possible so we, can
cl~ciae ~hi~, That i~ the thing 'tY~at concerns me the
rnost, is the cost ta I~Ieridia.n, to the people in
t~1er idian.
Ana granted, there is a lot of business
p~opl~ in t~Ieridian that were really in favor of this
~hing, an~ I really appr~:ciate that. And there is a
lot of taxpayers that are outside of P~ieridian that are
in favor of that, and there are a lot of taxpayers
insic~e the City of rleridian that are in favor for --
far anc~ against. So, it is not a light decision.
But I~~ould say, my recommendation would be
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~ta h~ld the public he~ring open for a couple more weeks
for written testimony only, until about the -- when is
n~.~~ council meeting? Two w~eks from the l~th? No,
the 17ith. So rnaybe hold this open until the 14th.
And then we coula get toqether and have a
wor lc~hop. By that pe r iad of time, I' m not sur e hoa~
long it would take to put the cost5 together, but I
would hop~ it could be put together by that time. And
then ~,~e coul~ set a team schedule or workshop to go
through all this compiled information.
That woulu be my recommEndatian.
I•~t~YOR KIr?GSFORD: I5 that a motion?
t•~iF. MYERS: I would make that a formal motion.
tsl~. BREW~R: I woula seconcl that motion.
I~IAYOR hINGSFORD: It h~s been moved and seconded
ta lceep the public hearing for written testimony only
open uni~il Jun~ 14. Those of you wishing to submit
written tes~imony, then, would have that opportunity to
pass on the d~sir~ of council.
i~~~~ have a motion and a s~cond. All. those
in favor?
(~111 responcl aye. )
r~3r~Y0R E:IPdGSFOI~D: Oppased.
(No response.)
til~YO~. KIt~.GSFORD: Hearing no s~cond, we' 11
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acceL~t written te~timony then through 5:00 ~.m. on
Jun~ l~ . At tha~ tirne then, P•Tr. t~~Iyers, is it your
c~esir~ to have a special workshop, or ciid you want ta
resci~e~dule that workshop at the council meeting set for
the 17 th?
P~iR. TIYERS: ~Vell, I think w~ have to have time
ta talc~ a look at that. So the weelc of the 17th
preferably if it's on the wri~t~n council meeting, that
would b~ fine.
Y~iR. GIESLER: I would r~commend that we don' t
pastpone this any longer than we hav~ to. I'c1 like to
s~+~ us work a littl~ harder and get this handled right
a~~~ay. I think they c~eserve to have an answer just as
quic4: as possible.
~~IAYOR KINGSFORU: At this time then I'l1 close
the public hearing for or~l tes~imony. And again, the
writt~n testirnany wi11 rem~in open un~til June 14, at
5: 00 p. rn. , 19 €35 .
I~~R. BREy~~ER: t~7r. t~iayor, I would like to request
of th~ council that we make at this time a re~uest from
Pric~ Develcprnent Company th~ funds to promote a study
on our own ancl at our chaice.
Is Price Development Com~~any ready to
cornrnit to that thi~ evening?
PiP.. P.ASI~~USSETJ: Thank you v~ry much, l~~r. Brewer,
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T~ppr~:ci~t~ ~.~~at c~u~~~ion. I~hinl~ the straight
an~~ver to your question is, ye~, we are r~ady to corimit
th~ f und~ f or tl7at. I th ink we' d 1 ike to see a
sel~ction committee from the Chamber and the merabers of
the cammunity.
I~nd we' d like the process to move along as
quickly as possible. Anc3 then unclerstand the schedule
from ~h~ tirn~ that study is campl~ted so we can work on
it anc~ adclress the specific questians that are raised
in this study.
If that answers your questian.
P~IP. . B P. E~°d E R: I t d O~ s.
I~i11Y0R F~IiJGSFORD: Is it the council's desire ~o
~ut that in ~ formal mntion to accept those funds to
proce~r~? Do w~ have a motion?
f~R. d~iYE~S: I have a questivn. I3ow would we get
a-- or wt~o wauld set up this com mittee? Wou1d that
b~ -- I would think that you coulcl do that, couldn' t
you, i.1r. T~~iayc~r?
ti~1~11, with the assistance of the Chamber af
Cornm~rce this would be a very viable farce ta put
tcgether -- I don't think you want 14 people or 15
people on th~ comMit~ee., T think three woula be plenty.
I~:AYOR F:IidGSFORD: ti'7~11, with all due respeCt to
~.h~ Char~b~r of Cornmerce, I thinlc that this is a
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c~~cisian thafi, has ~o b~ mad~ by city council. And I' c7
cer~ainly rather s~e th~ city council, through its
staff, decicle who and how it is to b~ done.
I~think the complaint af the developer has
bc~n, that they hav~ b~cn biased opinions before. And
I think ~aithaut ques~ian the Chamber af Commerce is
biased. And I think that since the city government
daes represent the peopl~, I'ct certainly like to -- i~
a study is c3one at who~ver' s expense.
If you are not interested in funding in
tha~. fashion, then I think the city better find some
fun~s and do it themselves.
~gain, I woulc~ ask, what is your desire?
~o you want tc~ mak~ a motion ~o prac~ed with this?
It's your shaw.
T•IP.. BF.Et°TER: P~Ir. I~4ayor, I wauld make a motion
that we as}: th~ Price Dev~lapment Com~,~any to furnish
the City of t>ieridian an appropriate amoun~ af the
func~s. They r~lay want to within the next f~w days put a
lid on that. And that the city council remain in
control of th~ selectiQn of the people who will make
ti~is study.
T71lYOR Y.I~IGSFORD: Is there a second?
ti~2. T~LSI~iF~; I second.
T~I~~YOR RIIIGSFORD: It has been moved and secondee~
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to ask th~ Price D~velapment Company for a reasonable
~n~ount o~ funds --
t~iR. ~ASi~iUSS~I~: sen bucks be okay? I figure
that ii is worth about as much as that arange sheet
tha~t can~~ out. I think we would to like work with you
an this to put a lid on it.
A~AYOR F:It~GSFORI7: Okay. And at that point
Caunci,lmen Brew~r woulc! work with him on a lid. And
that these funcls then will be~ controlleci directly by
th~ city council. All those in favor?
t f~l l re spond ay e. )
tIAYOR ~tIrICSFORD: Opposed?
t I1o r~spons~. )
I~ir'~YOR tCI~1GSFORD: P~iotion carries. With your
inaulgencE, th~n, that car~cludes this portion of agenda
F1e~. 4. Those of you ~~hc~ datz' t want ta ui ~ through th~
c~c~~artment re~orts and woulc~ like to vacate, you have
my bl~ssing.
Than}c you v~ry n~uch for your attention.
Ladi~s anc~ gentlemen, we still have a few matters and
i~ you ~aould do your discussians outside, I would
appreciat~ it greatly.
(Public hearing conclud~d.)
P~3AYOP. Y.II~TGSFORD : D~pa r tm~nt repor ts.
(IJo c~epar~tment reports.)
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N~AVOR FiTT~3GaFORD: God, thi5 is wonderful.
~ny~hinc~ else? t~irr. Tolsma.
T~iR. TOLSNiA: I have some. I way qoinc~ to ask a
qu~stion ot the city clerk about th~ proposed trail~r
~~rk that ~ae have over there across from Zamzow's. I
s~~ ~.h~re is one hom~ access th~re and one is sitting
on blocl~s with conn~:ctions to the ~railer, anc3 I was
wondering if we had establi~hec~ something there while I
wa~ out.
Y~~iR. T3IEP~~AP~T~I: I' 11 g~t ~ack to you on that.
t~IAYOR Y.ITJGS~'ORD: P1eas~ pass that alang to the
apprapri~te councilmen.
FtiR. GTESLER: t-Je' 11 loak into it.
r~R. BP,~°~E£:: T have nothinq.
PIAYOR KIr3GSFORD: It you are c3ane, aqain I' 11
annc~unc~ the las~ meeting will meet to crack the
k~udgets. taost nf ycau have -- several of you have
alr~ady talked to me ~bout that.
i~iR. i<~YERS: ti°1~ wiii be h~re.
PiAZ'OR KIT~IGSFORD: It has been moved we adjourn.
Ts there a secand?
t•ZR. TOLS~•IA: I seconc~.
iY1AYOR KIT3GSFORD: It has been mov~d and seconded
'~a adjourn. All in favor?
(1~11 res~ ond ay~. )
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I'i~YOR I:ITZGSFORD: O~g~os~c~?
t~?o res~onse.)
riAYORi:INGSF~RD: i~iotion carries. j~1e are
adj ournec~.
tH~aring ac~journed at 11:00 p.m.)
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~2EPORT~I:' S CF,F.TIFJCI~TE
I, Stephanie t•iichels, an Idaho Certified
Sharthanr3 Reporter, do hereby certify:
That I'm t~e reporter who kook the
~raceeclings had in the ai~ov~-entitlecl action in
machine shorthand anu thereafter the same wa5 reducea
in~.o type~~~riting uncler my ciirect sup~rvision; anc~
That the foregoing reporter's transcript
con~ains a full, true, and accurate record of the
pracc~dings had in the above ancl foregoing cause,
Wt11Ci1 was hearc~ at Boise, Idaho.
Ir~ ~~7ITP~3E55 ti^1HEI~EOF I have hereunto s~t my
h~xnc~ this 12th day of June, 1~85.
S~eph nie llichels, Co rt Reporter
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b~~2945~
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ORDINANCE NO. I~jl7j g
7'"~'~
FENSTEi~PiA~:~R ANNEXATION
AN ORDINANCE ANNEYII~iG AND ZONING CERTAIN REAL PROPERTY LVHICH IS
DESCRIBED AS A PART OF THE NE1jQ, SE1/4., SECTION 11, TOWIVSHIP 3
NORTH, RANGE 1 WEST, BOISE-MERIDIAN, F.,.DA COUNTY,IDAHO; AND PROVIDINti
1~N EFFECTIVE DATE.
WHEREAS, the City Council and the r~ayor of the City of Meridiar
have concluced that it is in the best interest of said City to anne~
to the said City real property w?~ich is hereinbelov~~ described:
FENSTE~MAY.ER ANPIEXATION
PARCEL l
Part of the SE1/4 of Section 11, Township 3 North, Range 1
taest of the Boise Meridian, in Ada County, Idaho, more
particularly described as follows:
CorTunencing at a point ~ahich is 25 feet ~aest of the NE corner
of the SE1/4 of said Section 11; thence
j.est, 130 feet to the REAL POINT OF BEGINNING: thence
South, 283 feet; thence
G1est, 225 feet; thence
North, 80 feet; thence
East, 100 feet; thence
North, 203 feet; thence
East, 125 feet to the REAL POINT OF BEC~NNING.
PARCEL 2
Part of the NEl/4 SE1/4, Section 11, Towns~ip 3 North, Range
1 West, Boise ~I~~ridian, Ada County, Idaho, described as follouT ~
a.
AMBROSE,
FITZGERALD
B~CROOKSTON
APtorneya and
Counseloro
P.O. Box 427
Meridlan, ldaho
83642
Yelep~one 888-4467
Beginning at a point 124' South of the Tlorth line of said NE1/
~ SE1/4 280' West of the NE corner of said NE1/4 SElj4, the REAL
. PQIidT OF BEGcINr1INJ, thence South 79'.; tience lr~est 5.5' to a
point 285.5' GVest of the East line of said PdEl/4 -SE1/4; thence
; North 79' to a point.124'Sbuth': of the North line of said NE1~
SE1/~ v~hicn is 2~5.5' ~~?est of the East line of said. NE1/4
S~1j4; thence;Ea,st 5.5' along a line which is 124' South of th
: North line of said NE1/4 SEl/4 to the REAL POINT OF~BEGINNIN~:
N06~7, THERE~'ODE, BE IT O~.DAI~IED BY THE MAYOR AND THE CITY
COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF r~4ERIDIAN, P_DA COUNTY, IDAHO:
Section 1: That the above described and referenced real
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property is hereby annexed to the City of!N~ridian, and shall be
zoned as follows: R-4 Residential.
Section 2c That the City Clerk shall cause one (lj copy of
the legal description and_map which shall plainly and clearly
designate the boundaries of said property, to be filed with the
Ada County Recorder, Ada County Assessor, and the State Tax
Commission within ten (10) days following the effective date of
this Ordinance.
Section 3: This~Ordinance shall be in full force and eff.ect
from and after its passage, approval and publication as required
by law. ~
PASSED by the City Council and App,roved by the Pqayor of the
City of r•~ridian, Ada'County, Idaho, this~~day of .-..{y~`. ,I98~
APPROVED:
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AMBROSE,
F{TZGERALD
3CROOKSTON
Attorneys and
Counaeloro
P.9. Box ~27
Moridlan, IdaAo
83642
Telephone 888-4481
'.;,. -
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~F
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'S A~.'E ~OF IDAHO , )
. ss.
County of Ada, )
I, JACK NIEMArTN, City Clerk of the City of ~Ierid.ian, Ada Count
Idaho, do hereby certify that the above and foregoing is a true,
full and correct copy of an Ordinance entitled "AN ORDIrdANCE
ANNEXING AND ZONING CERTAIN REAL PROPERTY WHICH,IS DESCRIIIED AS A
PART OF THE NEl/4,SE1/4, SECTION 11, TOWNSHIP 3~NORTH, RANGE 1 T~IEST
BOISE-MERIDIAN, ADA COUNTY, IDAHO; -~1VD PROVIDINC~ AN E~FECTIVE DATE ~
passed as Ordinance No. ~~~ by the City Council and t~4~yor
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of the City of Meridian, on th F-~ day of June, 1985.
~-
' DATED this~day of ~ `r~r/~ ,1985.
rk of tYie ty of *A~ridian,
ty, Idaho
,~
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AMBROSE,
FITZGERALD
SCROOKSTON
Attomeya and
CounSeloro
P.O. Box 427
Merid~an, ldaho
83642
Telephone 888~4481
STATE 0~~ IDAHO, )
~ ss.
County of Ada, )
ON this~~ day of -~J ,1985, before me, the under-
siqned, a Nota~y Public i and for the said State, personally
appeared JACK NIEI~NN, known to me to be the person who subscribed
his name ~o the within and foregoing instrument, and acknowledged tc
me that he executed the same.
~ IN WITNESS-WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand and affixed my
official seal the day and year in this certificate first above
written.
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N-otary Put~lic tor daho
Residing at P~eridi , Idaho
Ad~ County. {cl~ho, s.
Requect ofi G ~ `+-L
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Tin+s~ 9 ; i °j " at.
DATE /~ - G '~Sr
JO~{M ~AS9'iD
RECORDE
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