HomeMy WebLinkAbout2008 04-29 SpecialMeridian Citv Council Special Meetinq April 29, 2008
The Meridian City Council special meefiing was called to order at 5:35 P.M. on
, Tuesday, April 29, 2008 by President Charlie Rountree.
Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd, Keith Bird, David Zaremba, Charlie
Rountree and Joe Borton.
; Staff Present: Robert Simison, Steve Siddoway, Stacy Kilchenmann, Tom Barry,
Bill Nary, Phil Stiffler, Josh Grant, Mike Tanner, Ron Anderson, Tara Green.
Item 1. Roll-call Attendance:
Roil call.
X David Zaremba X Joe Borton
X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
Item 2. Adoption of the Agenda:
Bird: Mr. President.
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we adopt the agenda as published.
Zaremba: Second.
Rountree: It has been moved and seconded to adopt the agenda as published.
All those in favor say aye. Opposed? ~
ALL AYES. MOTION CARRIED.
Item 3. Consent Agenda:
A. Approve Beer and Liquor License Transfer of
Owner from Dave Edmark to Rudy's Beverage
Concession at 2310 Overland Road #150:
B. Approve Beer and Liquor License Renewal for
Rudy's Beverage Concession at 2310 Overland
Road #150:
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C. Approve Beer and Liquor License Renewal for
Corona Village at 21 East Fairview Avenue:
D. Approve Beer and Liquor License Renewal for
Blue Ribbon Artisan at 1441 N. Eagle Road:
Bird: Mr. President.
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I take it, Madame Clerk fhat everything is signed and sealed on all of these
licenses?
Green: I believe a couple of them are waiting for State and County.
Bird: But, we have taken care of all of ours?
Green: Yeah.
Bird: I would move that we approve the Consent Agenda as published, the
Mayor to sign and the Clerk to attest.
Zaremba: Second.
Rountree: It has been moved and seconded to adopt the Consent Agenda.
Roll Call Vote: Bird, aye; Zaremba, aye; Rountree, aye; Borton, aye.
ALL AYES. MOTION CARR1'ED.
Item 4. Discussion Items:
A. Agreement for Joint Use of Heritage Middle
' School Softball Complex with Joint School
District No. 2 and the City of Meridian:
Rounfiree: The first one is the Agreement for Joint Use of Heritage Middle
School. I fhink everyone has had a chance to review that.
~ De Weerd: It is signed?
Siddoway: It is signed by the City Glerk.
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~ Bird: Mr. President for the 20 years?
' Siddoway: 20 years with a 10 year (inaudible).
Rountree: I think those were the questions that came up that I saw.
Bird: I didn't know. I had not heard back on that.
, Rountree: Quesfiion? Any comments firom you Steve?
Siddoway: It does match what the Council had talked about.
~ Bird: Mr. President I move we approve the Agreement with the Joint School
District No. 2 for the Heritage Middle School and the Mayor to sign and the Clerk
to attest.
Zaremba: Second.
Rountree: It has been moved and seconded to approve the Agreement with the
School District for fhe Heritage Middle School Softball Complex.
Roll Call Vote: Bird, aye; Rountree, aye; Zaremba, aye; Borton, aye.
ALL AYES. MOTION CARRIED.
B. Budget Amendment for Heritage Middle School
Ball Fields for $2,500.00:
Rountree: Steve do you want to present that?
, Siddoway: Sure. Mr. President and Members of the Council this is the
amendment that would go along with the Agreement that you just approved. The
~, amount that was discussed at the last Council meeting was $218,500. Dave
Zaremba and I did meet and go over the available funds. We have fhe $200,000
from the ball field lights line item; we have the $7,000 for the emergency access
road line item; we have $9,000 that we can pull for the bleachers and dug out
benches leaving a balance of $2,500, which is fhe amount that this proposed
, amendment requests and I would stand for any questionS,
Rountree: Any questions for Mr. S'iddoway? Comments? Further discussion?
Zaremba: Mr. President I move we accept the budget amendment for Heritage
Middle School ball fieid for $2,500.
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Borton: Second.
Rountree: It has been moved and seconded for acceptance of the budget
~ amendment for $2,500.
Roll Call Vote: Zaremba, aye; Bird, nay; Borton, aye; Rountree, nay;
De Weerd: Mayor says aye.
' TWO AYES. TWO NAYS. TIE BREAKER, AYE. MOTfDN CARRIED.
Item 5. Ordinance / Policy Review:
A. Precious Metals Dealers License:
Nary: Mr. President, Madame Mayor and Members of the Council we have had a
discussion about this particular item previously and we currently have a city
ordinance that requires a license for any person that sells second hand jewelry
that is not a pawn broker or any type of precious metals including silver and gold.
What we found is that we had not consistently enforced this ordinance. I did at
your direction discuss that wifh the Police Department personnel and they also,
one didn't know we had such a license for some of them and also felt that it was
duplicate of the pawn brokers license and that it seemed to really capture the
same type of market. With the revision of the pawn broker license a year and
one half ago, they felt it was unnecessary to have this license as well. With your
permission I will bring back the repeal ordinance next week and repeal that
particular section of the licensing code.
Rountree: Any discussion or direction?
Zaremba: Mr. President, I fihink that fhat is a good idea, but then in the pawn
brokers code I would then add to the tifle that it is also a precious metals dealers
license or -
Nary: Councilman Zaremba in the definition of the types of wares that they sell, it
includes the things that are in this ordinance.
Rountree: Any other discussion or direction? Direction of Council is to move
forward with this to repeal it and bring it back next week.
De Weerd: Now, please note for fhe record that they are removing something.
(lnaudible discussion)
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Item 6. Strategic Planning:
,
A. Meridian Strategic Alignment:
B.
~ C.
D
Identity - Premiere Place 2020:
Financial Strategy:
Specific Actions Forward:
' 1- Defining the 2020 Vision
2 - Priorities
3 - Fiscal Strategy
4 - Department Strategies/Presentations
Stiffler: Madame Mayor and Members of the Council I have been asked to help
~, facilitate part of this discussion tonight between the Council and the Leadership
, and I do want to make sure - do we have Anna on the phone? We were asked
to call her. I guess since the phone was there.
Green: We will call her. What button do I push forspeaker?
: De Weerd: Why don't I call her and she can just call that number.
` (Anna Canning on speaker phone)
De Weerd: Okay, we are ready for your presentafiion any time you are.
Canning: Oh, nobody told me about that part.
De Weerd: You were going to give us a financial overview.
Stiffler: For the purpose of moving on, Anna this is Phil and I want to make sure
we got you on the phone on time, but I would like to defer initially to the Mayor
before we actually discuss the strategic alignment side. A handout has been
handed out, which Anna could speak to too and you will notice the main four
strategic focus areas that have been identified for the city over the last few years
with a little added clarification regarding the alignment. But, to set the stage for
tonight's discussion, I guess what I was asked was to make sure that we do get
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engagement and discussion and I believe that all directors would like to make
sure that all Councilmen have the opportunity to give their input and information
in that kind of engagement and discussion on the various topics and some of the
questions that have been asked. First we will defer to the Mayor to set the stage
for that with regard to where we are at and where we are going and kind of the
intent to have this kind of workshop engagement.
De Weerd: Thank you Mr. President. We are here in front of you today kind of
hoping to garner good discussion to look at how we move forward and start
looking longer term at the direction and how we can start crafting our plans
towards fhat 20 year out vision. So, we hope to use this strategic planning
meeting to set fihat stage and to begin those plans. The vision articulated today
will give the directors the ability to begin crafting their plans that will bring
character, identity, uniqueness and other attributes or amenities that the city
should provide and that is what we hope to identify today. First they will draft a
plan and bring it back to you to make sure they have accurately captured your
thoughts and to assure that we are aligned with the vision that we desire to move
forward. Then the departments will bring forward a plan and funding strategy in
how to meet the shared vision. The end product will be a long term vision that
will guide our departments in planning and the annual budget. This plan will be
important to help guide the decision making in the projects that come before
Council during the annual budget process or as budget amendments are
considered. Our departments will remain focused on achieving priorities that
were laid out last year as we met together then we reaffirmed our mission, vision
and values as well as our sfirategic areas. So we want to include in that the
adequate public facilities ordinance, identify economic development districts and
assuring a plan in is place for downtown, which some of the activities that we
have done over fhis last year since we met in our strategic planning last year.
That is really focusing on the long term. So today is that 30,000 foot level to
begin focusing our planning for the long term future in the city. So with that I will
just go ahead and turn it back over to Phil.
Stiffler: Mr. President, Madame Mayor and Members of the Council I guess first I
would like to is just for the purposes of assuring on our discussion the actual
handout that was given to you on the strategic alignment and reinforcement on
what the Mayor kind of set the stage. As I am sure you are aware of those four
focus areas that are there, but I guess I would say that Anna is on the phone too
and she was the one kind of responsible of coming up with this. Anna I don't
know where you got it; I don't know if there was proprietary rights (inaudible) with
the wheel or the alignment of it, but I guess I would say that any clarification that
any of the Councilmen may want to discuss that, but that was an overview fihe
directors and leadership looked at to kind of propose the idea and having that
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kind of alignment in the area that the Mayor looked at in that 20 to 30,000 foot
, level and going forward.
De Weerd: So Anna you might walk us through your beautiful creation.
~ Canning: Well one of the concepts from (inaudible) was fhe concept of fhe
~ flywheel and the consistent pressure needed to move that and although these
aren't flywheels necessarily, but it is the same kind of concepts and all I wanted
' to do was to take those strategic posifions that the Council had developed a few
years back and really bring it to the forefront of everyone's attenfion again
~ because I think that it kind of took a second place to the mission, vision and
values for years and the care until everybody was familiar with that. I thought
they were really good inifiatives and I wanted to make sure that I kept them in
mind when we went through the strategic planning. As we started to think about
the inter-relationship between those and that is where this diagram came in and
that they are all really connecting and overlapping and fit together that is the
community and the connections and the stewardship and really what kind of
~ pushes that; what puts the energy into that cause moving is the strategic
. alignment and that really is the organizational at the staff level. So that is where
my diagram came from and I just thought it was a nice way to visually represent
those items that Council had come up with in previous years.
De Weerd: Yeah, kind of the where we have been.
Stiffler: I guess I would defer to any of the Council if there is any discussion that
Council or the Mayor would like to have in regard to the -
Rountree: (lnaudible--) and talked about the illustration and the physics there
and it seems that the community drives fihe other two communities moving faster
fhan the other two are moving so. Is that meant to be?
' Canning: Councilman Rountree is reading more into than I intended.
(Inaudible discussion)
De Weerd: Look at the graphics not the mechanics, okay?
Stiffler: If there are no further comments I would like to move forward. I believe
the handout that everyone has three pages and indication on fhat is identity and I
believe everyone was handed that ahead of time, but to clarify this is part of that
first step of engagement of getting input from Council, reference looking at what
' would the city look like 20 years from now. What is this identity? And actually the
idea if you look at fhe basic preamble paragraph there it is kind of aligning that
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looking at getting insight on just a few of those questions, which means it may
lead to other questions, lead to other engagements or discussions, but as part of
the leadership they put togefher this group of questions to be a catalyst for that
kind of discussion. So with that I guess I would take it down - I would say that to
enter into the first one of what would the city look like in 20 years? What is this
identity? It is a fairly broad area, a broad picture, but I believe that leadership
would like to see how Council views that; how they see that in that light. So I
would defer to any one of the Councilmen maybe first as a comment to that one
and would start with David.
Zaremba: This is very broad, but 20 years from now I would like to see Meridian
as the central jewel in this Valley. I think we have the opportunity, not to dismiss
Boise, but to move fhe center of attention closer to us to have a center of the
Valley that attracts people to come and do business here, to attend cultural
~ events here, to attend other activities here and to think of Meridian as a central
~, place they want to go to, just not a place that they drive through that is in their
way. They need to see this as a destination for a whole lot of reasons and we
need to be proud of it. That is not a lot of specifics is it?
Stiffler: I would also interchange we ask the Council (inaudible) any of the
leadership (inaudible--) is if you want to add some other questions to any of the
' Councilmen, please interject or if you want further clarification, please do it now.
Councilman Borton?
Borton: One thing to add onto David's comments that I would like to see and
~ hope to see completed in 20 years is fhe vision with some of the districting is to
' intend and create both the medical and Ten Mile, those two in particular. I would
love to see both of those built out successful as the planning has intended them
,j to be. Those are probably the top two.
De Weerd: That is because you road with me and had to hear my speech.
Stiffler: I think fhose are some excellent priorities.
~ Borton: Those are some unique opportunities the city has that are in front of it to
create that other communities don't have and set it aside -
De Weerd: Downtown. You said downtown at the health sites.
' Stiffler: At Ten Mile:
Zaremba: It reminds me of the question that I have been wanting to ask. We
have apparently finro law schools that are talking about locating in Boise. Has
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Meridian made any move to see if one of them might want to locate in Meridian
instead?
Bird: We don't want more lawyers.
Rountree: That is a great question, but let me interject. Everybody tonight is
wanting to get through this strategic planning and to me fhat question needs to
be answered, but it is not a part of this process. I think David somebody is
looking at that.
De Weerd: We are working wifh fhe business developers.
Borton: Just one more thing. When we talk about its identity and what the city is
I would add the one thing that I would like the city to not be a component of its
identities is the traffic issues. In particular phase 1 and phase 2 and have fhat be
completed with success. Cherry Lane, engineering being decided and
completed with success. You talk about what the identity of a community is so
it's not that particular problem.
Stiffler: Councilman Bird?
Bird: I hope we have a very viable mile square downtown that is very pedestrian
friendly. I hope the people don't consider us a city. I hope they call us a
community. And, you know looking back over the last 20 years, we had no idea
, what we would be getting into, you know? And we are so much better prepared
now because of going through it; even though most of the time - with Charlie's
first term and Ron and my first term, we just swam real hard just to keep our
head above the water before we drowned. But I think we learned a lot on it and I
hope we use fhat knowledge as we go forward. I am like David I want to see this
. as the hub of the Valley and there isn't any reason why it can't be and get a
downtown with the cultural things that will bring people down and I just envision
downtown as being one large bike park. That is what I would like to see in 20
years and of course, we are going to have our residential stuff and I know we
can't do it, but I would like to see us get to bigger lots again.
Anderson: Can I ask a question? Joe you talked about us not being a product of
fhe traffic problem, I guess - what do you guys see as things as city staff that we
can do to I guess help us so that we are not just the end product of the traffic
congestion. How can we assist the city, eliminating some of those traffic
problems? That is one of the things that I felt when I was on the Council is that
we don't necessarily control our traffic destination. It is controlled by ITD and
Ada County Highway District and it seems like everybody else but us and so are
there some things that you guys are thinking of as far as helping with funding or
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fihings that we can do with planning and that kind of stuff to assist in not having
us be the product of the traffic congestion and those kinds of issues?
Borton: Mr. President that is a great question. It is a million dollar question. It is
not a lot that we can do direcfly other than from a group perspective as being
consistent in our message with ACHD or ITD and whether it is a phase 1 or
phase 2 downtown transportation solutions that we all tend to talk in the same
script and I am not necessarily saying that we are not; it seems that there is with
budgetary constraints any opportunity fhere to be to refocus their resources,
ofher areas and not have them be directed towards a solution to Meridian. I think
fhose entities welcome the opportunity. I am not so sure there is a budget
specific --
Stiffler: I think there may be other Councilmen wifh ideas. Mr. Zaremba?
Zaremba: Just a comment and this applies to fire and police probably as well.
As we try and move forward and continue to explain the need for the split corridor
phase 1 and phase 2 and eventually the Linder overpass and all the things that is
happening with Ten Mile and stuff we have the opportunity with the recent
opening of Locust Grove to publicize what it has done for us in response fiimes,
the change of activity or if there has been change of activity in criminal behavior
that we have been able to stop because the police could get there quicker or the
tire and EMT has been able to get there quicker and any of those things that we
could capitalize - we have known the difference of before it was open and now
that it is open and if some how we could extrapolate those into justificafion for
why we need to continue to push for Linder overpass and some of the other
improvements that need to be made to solve traffic problems because it is a
safety issue as much as anything. That would help.
Anderson: I guess I am thinking on a staff level, like when we see plans for
subdivisions we try to push for the interconnectivity and private stub streets
because we know that the land adjacent to it is going to develop at some point,
but when those projects come before Council, a lot of times if that stub street
happens to require that they build a bridge to get across the canal then they are
always well we really don't want to do that and then they come to you guys and
say can we not build that stub street? On some of the commercial projects, too,
do we try to discourage it on some of the roadways where we are already maxed
out? I m.ean those are some of the things that I am thinking that we as staff
maybe ought to try and assist in the direction -
Rountree: With respect to saying no because the roads are already at capacity, I
am hoping we would address fhat with adequate public facilities ordinance or
something like that. I think staff can always look for interconnectivity and that is
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something hopefully that we embrace and continue to look forward to and know it
is somefhing going on in larger communities across the nation. Continuity and
consistency - for instance, Franklin Road. My trip down Franklin Road tonight
was in speed limits trom 50 miles an hour to 35 miles an hour -
De Weerd: Well, we are working on it.
Rountree: -- and something in between and that is a problem for the traveling
public. It is a problem for (inaudible) because we got to (inaudible) if they got to
issue a citation - you know because if it changes every mile or half a mile. Some
of those things create (inaudible). Get that stuff identified, get fhat to us and
when we bring it up to ACHD and so come and support it with statistics and
information that you have got. You have got a lot of good information now and
IeYs see it. I think the PD does too, but we only see it maybe quarterly. But that
kind of stuff is (inaudible) and when you have got informafion and facts you can't
dispute it when you go to ACHD who controls our future and I am not going to let
Tom speak on fhis particular issue because I know where he is going to go. The
last comment I am going to make is staff and all of us need to start thinking about
transportation system. It is just like our circulatory system in our body. We have
got to start thinking about the system. It is not just cars and lanes. Somehow we
have got to figure out as we grow these development areas, districts some cross
connectivity wifh bus or pathways or whatever, something ofher than having to
jump into your sedan and going two blocks and that is an interconnectivity piece
where some places if you could get to you would, but you can't. You have to go
back out onto an arterial and then come back around to get in it. I guess fhose
are some of my thoughts. The bottom line is it is all going to be about money.
But, as you guys see things that don't quite look right, let us know. If we are not
smart enough to listen to you fhen let us know.
Stiffler: I guess I would defer to Tom. Did you want to have a comment at this
time?
De Weerd: No, we are at the vision point. You are the facilitator not the trouble
maker.
Stiffler: I understand - I believe what Mr. President has told me and that we are
going to keep it at the 20,000 plus level and would prefer to get down to
specifics, but I meant from the overview did you have a comment?
Barry: I have several initial comments, but they may be better served speaking
at a different level where I can get a better understanding of the regional issues
that approaches from working with our Council and to get that understanding also
from the Mayor as well. There is certainly a lot of opportunity centered around
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fhe transportation issues that we are working toward identifying as well as
~ embracing and I just ask fihat staff be given some of that latitude with regard to
, continuing to broach strategies that we could bring to the Council for
; considerafion in the future.
De Weerd: And he is working with (inaudible) as well.
Stiffler: I would say one thing, Mr. President, one thing I have heard from all of
the Council is fihey are saying open and requesting and asking staff to engage
and bring any of those recommendations or issues that they think to your
attention wifh regard to also providing data or any sort of initiative regarding
transportation. Mr. President did you get a chance to answer any of the other -
as far as that question one?
Rountree: As far as question one goes, I will preface my comment on what the
city looks like in 20 years depends on what we do in the next five. If we don't get
some of the things we need to do in the next five, it is going to look completely
different than what - well, maybe it is going to look just like it does today. But,
my vision 20 years from now is we have got a 98 percent new downtown that is a
cultural living center, much like what we came up with on our initial downtown
revitalization study and this is to just restate what everybody else has said,
satellite activity business centers fhat reflect the business districts and fhose
representatives. So whefher it is a gym or a cultural center or whatever, but it is
downtown and downtown is a place of gathering. The city is a place of doing
business in such a way that you can live, you can do your business and you can
recreate and chances are you can get it done on most extremes by riding a
bicycle, but generally speaking you can do it (inaudible).
~ Stiffler: Any other comments, references because what I would like to do is -
, De Weerd: Well, can I tell you my visions or --?
Stiffler: Yes.
De Weerd: Just because I am part of the team. I like your summary. You just
summarized all of my talking points, but we are fhe number one healfih science
service provider fhrough our healfh, science and technology corridor in the state
' and fhe pacific northwest; that we offer high wage jobs close to where people live
; and a diversity of housing choices; that our public schools and institutions of
hiring learning are of the highest standards and challenge and engage our
~ children, including professional development opportunities; that we are a safe
; place for our businesses and neighborhoods and have quality public and health -
, quality public and safety health services; that we have parks, natural areas and
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open spaces with amenities for all ages; facilities that nourish their souls; a
friendly small town feel. You know I think that is the unique thing that continues
to be Meridian today and we would like to maintain that that no matter how we
grow, continue to have that small town feel; that we do not become a big town
attitude; that we have a healthy, vibrant downtown that has visual and performing
arts; community events and recreation programs and fhat we are known as a"to"
destination, not a"through" destination in our downtown; a transportation system
that serves the entire region that gets us where we need to go effectively and
efficiently and that as a city, we are good stewards of not only our financial
resources, but our environmental resources and that we protect the assets that
we have today so that our kids can enjoy them as well.
Kilchenmann: Is that all?
De Weerd: No. I have urban, experiences with the pedestrian friendly sidewalks
(inaudible), a community center, but I am keeping it at fihe 30,000 foot level. I did
need (inaudible).
Stiffler: Thank you Madame Mayor.
Zaremba: I.f we are ready to move on, just before we do -
Stiffler: Go right ahead.
Zaremba: You made a comment right before - you asked fhe directors if you
knew how they could support the vision and the thoughts of the Council and fhat
is very nice. It feels good to have support. I always like that, but I consider the
,~ expertise of our department heads - we have excellent department heads whose
experfise it is in their fields where it isn't my expertise. I think I have some good
expertise in a couple of limited fields, but certainly not all of what our excellent
' directors do. This is one Councilman, who would very much appreciate along
~ with your support on my good ideas that you come to me and tell me when I have
had a dumb idea or something is wrong with what I am thinking. I want to hear it,
please. ~
Canning: (Inaudible--).
Stiffler: I think fhat Mayor and Councilman Bird had something in line when you
said you wanted to maintain being a community and you with the fine part of
what (inaudible--).
Anderson: I have just a clarification that I think I need. I am somewhat confused
on what the direcfion - I heard Councilman Rountree talks about he envisions
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kind of 98 percent new downtown area and residential living, but then also I
heard the Mayor talk about preserving that small town feel and I guess fhere is
always kind of a conflict in my mind between preserving that small town feel and
some of that historical structures and fhe small kind of mom pop type of
businesses and then also creating a new downtown with 98 percent business -
Rountree: My intent on that comment is there is not much historic stuff
downtown, but what is there can be renovated and worked into the concept that
we come up with originally for downtown be done. But, most of the new stuff is
also being done with that kind of feel in mind; at least I hope that is what MDC
has done with their design. I am not talking about moving away from that design
idea at all. But, most of the stuff that is being downtown might look old is going
to be new. Even the old stuff is going to be new.
Anderson: So when you say that the things that are worth preserving then would
it be helpful to just kind of idenfify what those are so fhat we can work to preserve
those if it is kind of fhe character of the north end of Main Street that we want to
,protect or what parts do you like that we should try and protect and keep the
same?
De Weerd: Well, Mr. Facilitator, if we could keep it at the 1,000 foot level, but
that is an excellent question and probably something that we have to have
dialogue as we get to the different pieces that we want to fill in and give greater
detail and that sort of thing and I think that we will. be having that in particular for
what we do on Main Sfireet, Carlton and those kind of things that we will have to
have a separate kind of discussion about. What does that mean? If fhis is the
long term vision of Council, you know, in 20 years down the road that is where
we would come back wifh more details and then have fhat dialogue more in-
depth discussion.
Rountree: (Inaudible--) reflections on fhe plans that are in place today. I believe
that fhey are all sfill plans -
Canning: Charlie, could you speak up just a bit?
Rountree: I am having a tough time even talking. Sorry. Anna, my comment
back to Ron is fhat any comment I might have is not a reflection of changing the
plans fhat are in place now. Most of my comments are based on what those
plans said and that we implement them continually. He was questioning about
my comment about 98 percent new downtown. They could have been 93 or 78;
whatever remains downtown that is restorable and historic needs to be done.
But even fhe old stuff that is restored is going to be mostly new. The community
or the old town feel is still in place.
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~ Nary: It seemed to me what I was understanding is the direction that what is
preservable or restorable is the desire of what the Council would like to see.
~ What the specific buildings are. Whether that is the Heritage building or the
' Farmers and Merchants Bank building is probably not where we are at tonight,
~ but that may be something that we are going to bring back in saying you know
, here is part of that vision, you know, where the downtown should be, whether it is
, the north end of Main Street, Meridian Road or whatever. Is that correct?
Rountree: Sure.
Stiffler: Frank.
' Thomason: I think that Chief and Charlie are both correct. Meridian unlike Boise
; does not have a historic district or enough buildings adjacent or near enough to
each other to constitute an historic district. So we will have a 94 percent or better
new city, but that is even more incumbent upon Meridian, especially Council as
' the guiding agency to make sure that new development is consistent with and
; generally agreed upon historic designs. I understand that the old (inaudible)
~ building, the faCade cannot be saved is the latest that I heard; across the street is
the Hub. That is very exciting and used to be a parking hall and used to be
~ dancing upstairs and from the comments being made tonight fit in with this
~ general concept of open air boutiques and this is consistent with a pattern of
approved projects that do form, if you will, a new historic district based upon
~ designs and a vision that this Council and the department heads, I believe do
share. I fihink they are compatible, move forward and you have already
demonstrated great leadership in many areas. I think that Council and not just
fhe Historic Preservation Commission, which is only an arm of the Council needs
~ to be more proactive in thinking in terms of how can we make it consistent with
our vision of a new historic district because we really have to be inventive in
Meridian because many of the buildings are not salvageable and that is just the
way it is. You can compensate to a great extent. The new City Hall is a
wonderful opportunity and a literal catalyst for this concept and spread of east
~ and across Main Street from the new project. So I expect that will happen under
this Council and this Mayor with the direction that you are providing and I thank
~ you for having this discussion.
, Stiffler: Thank you Frank.
, Bird: Mr. President I would add to that that we have got a few historical houses
downtown, but maybe we will be able to preserve those, but if we and MDC is
~ moving this way, which when you were on there, Ron, you know that and we
want to have even with the new building some kind of older look, different look
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because there isn't much down there. I mean if you call a 1967 building fhat
Farmers and Merchants is an old building, we are in trouble. But, we can, I think,
by setting a standard and working on it and I know Anna has worked on it that we
can make it look its own look that will look historic, we hope and I think that is -
the houses that we can salvage, I am all for that 100 percent. I hope we can do
it.
Anderson: {Inaudible--).
De Weerd: Well you know I guess it is that clarification too that sets the direction
for us that if it is identifying those old homes or a street of homes or a block or
whatever, it makes it even more important looking at our building codes to help
us assist that renovation instead of the demolition of buildings where we can
make them work with the owners to restore whefher than demolish and those are
the areas fhat we need to look at.
Bird: You hit on fhe thing that I think was very important in Boise and I think they
still do is their historical preservation group comes up with grants and stuff to
help. I don't know how many windows that I didn't change out - the old wood
windows that didn't fall apart, so we made aluminum or even had wood windows
fabricated that looked like it and changed them out and we got these through the
grants and I hope one of these days we have these types of grants that help
people and I think that is a perfect idea that you just stated.
Sfiffler: Unless there is other discussion I would like to move forward. I am going
to skip to number three and pass over number two only because I believe what
only the Council has voiced, I would say there has been already some discussion
about looking what might be distinguishing, but there are other items and I am
kind of combining one and three "a" there because I think that maybe you have
already identified some of the things fhat distinguish. If there are other things
that answer that question that you feel you haven't mentioned or if anybody in the
Leadership team would like to ask a question to Council, I would leave that open.
Bird: The only thing that I would add to that and I think that the city fihrough our
directors and through our elected officials are kind of taking the charge in traffic
problems. I mean we belong to COMPASS and (inaudible) and I think we are the
most area that is hit the hardest because we are the hub where everybody
comes fhrough us and I think we should be leaders and I think we have stepped
forward on that, not that we can't probably step farther forward, but Ron you hit it
on fhe head, we don't get to call all of the shots.
Rountree: So I guess my comment on fhat in terms of distinguishing in the city,
the other things that we have talked about are more quality or look. In my mind
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what is going to make us or not is something to bring people here and that is
easy to do business and having multiple choices and flexibility, rigidity is just
going to move people out of here. So our plans have to be flexible and be fleet
of foot to capture the right things at the right time. To me that is what is going to
make a unity is to just hunker down and say it is going to be this.
Stiffler: Go ahead, Steve.
Siddoway: I was just going to ask what is it about Meridian Parks and Recreation
in thinking 20 years down the road that distinguishes our parks and recreation
program from others. What would you like to see it be 20 years from now?
Zaremba: I don't know whether this is competing with the Arts Commission, but I
would like to see cultural programs as well as - I love what you are doing already
~ and things are going on of course more of it is fine, but if we have a real cultural
arts center at some point in combination with the Arts Commission I think Parks
~ aould run cultural programs and putting on plays and maybe not mimicking the
Shakespeare Festival, but different kinds of things that would be a community
, activity and draw people from other communities in as well.
Rountree: Steve I don't know how you do this 20 years for recreation, especially
when we have no idea what it is going to be, but at some point and time we are
, going to have to get into the virtual business and however we get into the virtual
business of be done in such a way to get kids active and get fhem off of their
butts instead of two and three or fours hours using their thumbs. Look at what
, your boys would do if given the choice? My grandkids, if you give them the
' choice, they will sit in front of the high tech electronic stuff and play games and
they would probably go crazy. You could do evecything virtually, but you need
something, recreation component, a parks component that can get groups in the
community engaged, whether it is gardening or - I don't know what it is going to
be in 20 years.
De Weerd: Well, I think the speaker that COMPASS had and said that that will
be the greatest challenge in the next 10 to 20 years is pulling people out of their
houses. So, your jobs become even more important in drawing people out and
giving fhem activifiies.
Siddoway: Being a community.
Stiffler: There has been a lot of things written in that trend compared to
recreation department programs have been more reactive to (inaudible). It will
be reemphasized in that time period that the President is mentioning of having to
be totally proacfiive to forward people out as it goes forward.
.
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Rountree: And it may be that your direction is more encouraging and
emphasizing in teaching social skills because if we do get more housebound,
social skills are going to be (inaudible--) how the tone will be put in our electronic
messaging. Which to date is not very good.
Nary: It seems like part of that vision for doing that is trying to find a way to make
those recreational opportunities available and accessible. You know, I live a
block from a neighborhood park so we use it often, but if you live five miles from
a park and you have got to drive there, which we all recognize is the
transportation issue, you don't have another means to get there, generally,
besides your car because there is no pathway to get there. That seems like the
challenge to me for the Parks Department is if you want to provide a recreational
opportunity whether it is classes, cultural or whatever you have got to have a
place people can get to, kind of like Councilman Rountree said wifh the
downtown, they don't have to drive their car just to go to the park, go to the class
or just to go to something. So that accessibility may mean from a parks
perspective fhey have got to look at how to put different size, different things
within a reachable distance to people and I don't know what that is going to be in
20 years, but whatever that reachable distance is, you know we have a lot of
neighborhood HOA parks and are they still going to be around in 10 to 15 years?
Some of them don't like to keep that; some of them don't like to maintain them
anymore. Is that an issue for the city or not? I don't know.
' Bird: I think you hit it and i fhink it is either the city or Western Ada or between
~ the two of them. You are right, the regional park, we have got the nice regional
; park. We have got some large nice parks, but it is like Bill says if you have got a
~ park within youur neighborhood, you will go out and use it a lot more than if you
' have to get into your car, load fhe kids in, particularly now that they have to have
. bumper seats or whatever you call fhem and takes five minutes to get the kids,
~ grandkids in the car. So, they are not going to use it as much if they walk across
fhe block or a couple of blocks down. So I would think that - I wished I had the
, answer, but some of these HOA parks, if they offer them to us and they are large
enough, we are going to have to take them. Eifiher us or Western Ada, one or
the two and take it over. I think in the future they are going to be the deal. I think
~ the regional parks - if you look at Boise, they have finro regional parks, Julia
Davis and Ann Morrison for years and they get used. I tell you what they have
; got the willow lane and (inaudible) alliance parks and some of these are used a
lot more because they are closer.
Borton: Mr. President, Stacy and I would' like to see a shark tank, please. She
wanted a shark tank. Let me tell you one thing that would be neat to see in 20
: years and that is an "AA" ball field and hotel complex for the City of Meridian. I
' Meridian City Council Special Wockshop
April 29, 2008
Page 19 of 51
know it is a big project, big idea; but to kind of rain on the parade a little bit when
I look at what the city provides in 20 years at its ultimate course, it is running
water, flushing toilets, police and fire and open space and true essential city
~ services and it is tempting to think big and broad and let's have 25 brand new
different types of amenities and programs and departments and we can do
~ anything in the world, but just because you can doesn't mean you should. It is
the role of the city, I think might be more limited - this is what I mean about
raining on the parade - more limited than we talk about or what we want to
provide. For me, the most important parts of the city are those true essential
~ services and have the absolute best police, fire, water, wastewater, open space
opportunities, accounting departments, finance, IT.
Stiffler: Mr. President I would like to bring only one other comment that I think is
Steve's question and then after Councilman Borton's comments. I think that
opportunities by the basis of what the Council has already established in
relationships with fhe School District and with other entities fhat we see
happening. I think sometimes with the essential services it is the opportunity for
partnering. A lot of the things that I am talking at the 20,000 foot level, the
partnering with the School District and recreation programs and with ISU and the
well science programs and the things that we are already doing do encourage
proactively to get what President Rountree indicated of how do we get the kids
out there. There is a lot of opportunity to partner with a lot of those other entities
who we already have excellent relafionships and a proactive side that can help in
that. Moving on. Is there any other comments that anyone would like to add to
the quesfion 3a reference? I think there has been a lot of issues and elements
that have been brought up and are disfiinguishing things and a commitment there.
Is there any other comments, Madame Mayor or --?
De Weerd: I guess I would just give kudos to our staff today. I think our staff has
been the leaders for some time in innovation and meeting service demands with
the resources that we have and continue to blaze trails for others that desire to
follow because they see the success of these programs and certainly I believe
fihat it is allowed because fhey do have the firust and confidence of Council and
they are given the latitude to think outside the tradifional norm that find ourselves
in. So I guess when you ask what will distinguish the City of Meridian from other
cities, it is just more of what we are doing in setting and raising the bar and
reaching to higher standards.
Nary: One thing I was going to say and maybe so Phil feels like he came here
for a reason is the 3a which may be a segment to question 2 is I think for the city
from the IT perspective is that connectivity liked we have talked about and some
of that is technology to get interaction, whefher it is a better website, but more
interactive opportunity through the website. You know we won an award last
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April 29, 2008
Page 20 of 51
year at AIC for having the wireless downtown because no other city in the state
promoted doing fhat. I think we will find in five years lots of cities doing that.
That is not very unique anymore. So, where are we, like the Mayor just said, in
trying to be the leaders in these areas how do we draw more people in? We
know everyone uses the internet way more than they read the paper, go to the ~
library or watch television anymore. So we know people want that in some
fashion and I think maybe that that is part of what we can bring as departments
to you as well as the direction from the Council of where would you like to see it
go? I think the possibilities are large for us to be able to get more people
engaged to our city through the electronic forum more fihan you may get than to
get them to come into City Hall. I can't envision in 20 years as many people
walking in to pay their water bill as there might be today. But, there probably will
be some, but we have progressed technology wise in the last five years and I
would just think that we would continue to do that, you know. The only difficulty
that we had in this discussion with the IT folks is that most of the things that will
exist in 20 years, some third grader hasn't invented it yet. Because it just doesn't
even exist. The first time I got a cell phone I couldn't imagine having a
blackberry 10 years ago, now I can't imagine working wifhout it, but 10 years
from now I probably won't need it. So that seems to me from our end, the IT side
an area to continue to progress, to try to keep the city heading fihat direction to
connect our citizens to us whether accessing the internet at a Council meeting,
whefher it is before or after the meeting, during the meeting, whether it is to be
able to get online to sign up for city programs, city shelters. I mean we already
pay the water bill, but can we do most of city services on the internet? Not yet,
but we would like to get there.~
De Weerd: Anna are you in a pool?
Canning: No.
Nary: I heard you say double down. Does that make sense though?
Rountree: My comment on technology and I think you are right Bill that we need
to maintain our efforts to maintain and keep up with technology, but I am not
supportive (inaudible). Let's let somebody develop it and if it looks like a good
idea, like a wifi range within the city or whatever it might be then yeah IeYs do it
once it becomes a(inaudible) and we can take it off of the shelf and put it into
place. Maybe doing it before somebody else does, but that is not starting it.
Stiffler: I would say from Bill's kind of preamble related to question 2 I guess I
would say still keeping it at the bigger picture level rafiher than specifics. I think
that President Rountree (inaudible) the leading edge let's look at the utilization of
that that's already there. Are there other comments from the Councilmen on the
Meridian City Council Special Wockshop
April 29, 2008
Page 21 of 51
bigger picture of technology as it relates to you viewing going forward that you
feel is important to share?
Rountree: I'll say this. LeYs not lose pace with that demographic that is not
technologically oriented. Some days I feel that I do fhat.
De Weerd: I know I do by the hour.
Zaremba: I would only comment on the philosophical thing and maybe it's
because I'm slow to incorporate technology as I get older. I'm not sure that we
need to be in on whaYs called the bleeding edge of the newest technology every
time. Where was I at - the fire meefing where you were describing something
we were the first people in the world to buy and now we're two generations
behind or something like that? I do like the idea of incorporating new technology
but we probably need to be the 10~h people to buy it instead of the first people to
buy it so that some of the bugs have been worked out of it. I don't want to be the
last one to, buy it either but just not be on what's called the bleeding edge
necessarily of the latest and greatest.
De Weerd: I agree to a aertain extent but where it makes sense it makes
competitive sense you look at downtowns across the country right now and the
type of population that live in downtowns we do have to be aware of what kind of
city infrastructure is needed be it fiber or even fiber to our business parks to
make sure as technology improves that we have the infrastructure in place. I
guess there's a line drawn. Do we have to have the (inaudible) probably not but
do we have to have the infrastructure fhat others can utilize or as private industry
can provide it that we have the dialogue and the foresight to coordinate so that
those things are incorporated into long term plans. I think thaYs some of it.
Stiffler: Any other comment from any of the other leadership in regards to where
they feel technology may be impacted in fihe same from public safety side
anything else to share in the bigger picture? Anyone frorn Public Works?
Barry: I don't have a comment regarding the technology I guess ofiher than just
to say do we want technology driving what we do or does what we do drive our
needs for technology is kind of the question.
Rountree: Technology is good to drive our business (inaudible) not the other
way around.
Barry: I did have a different comment actually related to sort of the bigger
picture. We talk about Question 3A what will distinguish the City of Meridian from
other cifies in the Treasure Valley. Councilman Borton you had said that you see
Meridian City Council Special Workshop
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Page 22 of 51
essential city services in 20 years as being critically important in your vision. You
~ - said water, wastewater, fire, police and other sorts of essential city services - I
~ guess the question I would have for the Council is how do we see the service
delivery in each of those areas. Do we see the service delivery at the local level?
Do we see the service delivery at a different level say the regional level
transportation or fire or wastewater or water? Just from an infrastructure
standpoint what - we want to keep things at the local level with regards to
service delivery or regionalize our services to a regional level. That goes a long
~ way in driving identity and character and also at the fiscal planning and
, positioning as it relates to overall city services in the next couple of decades.
Borton: Mr. President. Where I was coming from was not regional. It wasn't
necessarily a regional approach there are components to that that we don't
, control. (Inaudible) I asked a former director this question is for your department
you can ask (inaudible) within this state what would make Meridian's Fire
Department be the absolute best number one department. If there's a way to
rank what would make Meridian number one? If they're not one now how do you
get there?
Kilchenmann: A ladder truck.
Anderson: I've got them trained. They're answering for me.
Borton: You know kind of start there and the metrics might change it might
become an insurmountable obstacle to get you there but I don't know fihe
answers to fhose questions. In the simplest form to have the absolute best in
every sense Police Department, Fire Department, Public Works Department,
Parks, Accounting -
Canning: Planning.
Borton: I didn't hear that part you're breaking up. In the top 20 Planning. Find
out what the needs are. ThaYs one of the questions that I would want to know
that says you know put our money where our mouth is and be the absolute - you
can have the best Fire Department. I'm not saying we're not it's going to require
new stations who knows. There might be some hurdles that we can't get to but
why not ask those questions so when someone is asking me what's in Meridian
why is Meridian so cool? What's the greatest place you say IeYs talk about
Police and Fire these essenfial city services that we provide. Why are they the
greatest?
Rountree: I don't disagree with that but I would say that it appears that the
regulatory environment may drive us to regional approaches sooner as opposed
Meridian Ciry Council Special Woricshop
April 29, 2008
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to later. I think everybody needs to keep that on their plate. I don't know if we
can plan for that in 20 years (inaudible) there might not be such a thing making
everybody start to come together and (inaudible) fire protection county wide or
emergency services EMS or whatever. I don't think iYs out of the question. I
think we need to be open and flexible to it but I don't know that we necessarily
chart a path based on the acceptance of that philosophy of our neighbors
because I don't see them talking about us.
Stiffler: I guess I would interject. I hear -- from hearing from Councilman Borton
what President Rountree said is that the reality is that you're still saying that iYs a
requirement iYs essential to plan a posifion and make sure the city takes care of
those essential infrastructure services and sfill rely on being open to other
options that could be beneficial in that position or standpoint because there is no
control over what may happen and I know you're familiar with Washington State I
think Ron is you're seeing some regionalized fire stuff starting there in certain
areas. Yes, each one of those cities that I know of where I worked with on the
planning, they took care of fheir services. They thought that was their essential
standpoint that they needed to do and when those options came up then they
needed to be considered and evaluated on that basis. Councilman Zaremba.
Zaremba: I was just going to comment. We actually already have examples of
where fire and police and the Planning Department in particular have taken the
lead on setting the benchmark for what either others want to copy or what can
become a regional system. ~I hadn't thought about regionai public works services
but again, I certainly would be open to it like President Rountree. There may
even be some efficiency that means fhat we ought to take fhe lead in becoming
that regional facility. I would like to see that explored. The first point is we have
to provide for our own basis. If there's away that we can do that and take the
lead on helping everybody in the valley meet their requirements so much the
better. We have already become known as the leaders on some things and
that's another area fhat hadn't occurred to me.
De Weerd: And maybe thaf's something that we can bring back is looking at
where those opportunities or regulatory type of actions might present itself to
have that anticipatory fhinking but I just had a discussion with another water
provider and they were talking about conservation and education programs and
doesn't it make better sense fhat instead of each of us doing our own that you all
collectively get together and do that as a whole. Those are our opportunities and
those are the things I think that we need to work to identify and bring back for
further discussion for Council and have more detail.
Anderson: This I want to share with you. A good example is this new EMS
system that Councilman Bird and I have been working on for about the last year
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April 29, 2008
Page 24 of 51
and a haif and we're going to back up to the point where we change state
statutes and we will require regional participation in this EMS system but yet it
will still allow you to keep your own local identity and your own loaal control and it
will give you more voice but it will make consistency occur in the training and the
level of care and protocols and all of those things. I think you can actually do
bofh things on some occasions. This EMS thing when we finally get it adopted
and worked out we're hoping to go to the legislature next year and get the state
law changed. I think it is a great example of the work you guys are talking about
here.
De Weerd: Looking at uniformity but not losing your identity.
Anderson: Yes. You're part of the system and a voice in the system but it
improves fhe level of service across the board.
Bird: Weil I think we have - that's why we have the POST and stuff like that with
our police officers. They all get basic training throughout the region but each
department has their own training too. You have your own identity but you still
can intermingle with regional other law enforcement officers and still have the
same laws and do the same procedures am I right Jeff.
Lavey: Well to a degree. We still operate in our own identities and our own
separate policies. We don't have shared policies or procedures or anything else
~ so we still operate separately. You can look at some areas that might improve
efficiency but you need to make sure that you don't lose who you are and some
of those things that are important to the - that I heard some of the Mayor and
Council say as far as who we are, what we represent and how we are to our
community. You lose some of that if you go and regionalize and so that's just
, one thing I caution for too. There's also a uniqueness as far as some of the labor
laws and everything else that are the difference between the police agencies that
you don't often see in the fire services so it's a little'harder for us to join forces.
, IYs challenging more challenging.
, Stiffler: I would like to move forward with - actually IeYs forward to question 3A
as you will note fhe next question that the leadership group put together had to
do with almost defining potentially distinguishment having to do with what might
' be considered as unique services or types of services for those related
questions. I fhink we have already heard some input with regard to the Council's
view with regard. to the core surfaces and the requirements that you look at. I
guess I would ask related to if there's any identity to what you consider to be
unique services looking out that you feel are important to bring up or in the area
of more types of services to help define where you think that may be going. Not
so much just in the distinguishment but the identity of the services such that
Meridian Ciry Council Special Workshop
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Fage 25 of 51
maybe have not been discussed or brought up. I guess I would - that could also
be - if there are some ideas from the leadership group when that was identified if
there's something you wanted to question or ask about. Did Anna say
something?
De Weerd: No she's just moving.
Canning: Sorry my phone is running out I have to plug it in so I had to move my
chair.
Rountree: I thought you were roJling dice or shoving food in your mouth. Remind
me never to call in.
Stiffler: So I guess - make sure my clarification or question I'm kind of skipping.
I'm leaving 3D out I'm just saying to make sure if there's anything in fhat bigger
picture that you perceive related to unique or additional services that in this
planning going forward that we think we need to be thinking about or looking at
for leadership responding to you to meet those potential needs.
Rountree: Phil, my comment in that area is - and I'll be working with Tom as we
work through his reorganization structure but there's some specifics that I'm
going to want them to explore that I think would certainly be unique particularly in
the building services area as it relates to our command control mentality on
permitting inspection versus acceptance of professional engineering and
professional architecture and that sort of thing. We will be working at a very low
level and I'm not going to (inaudible) but just fhe idea of being open to those
kinds of discussions then the investigation of has it worked some place else and
if it has been tried and hasn't worked I want to know that. If it hasn't been tried I'll
want to know also that (inaudible) jump out into the bleeding edge again but I
hope that the liaisons with various departments have fhose kinds of ideas and
the department heads are open to at least being cordiai with the dialogues and
fhen tell us we're crazy but that's okay too.
Stiffler: I would say President Rountree I kind of view that also as kind of
(inaudible) ask the Councilman too as a matter of looking at that liaison or the
discussions and looking at any opportunities of what we might call continuous
process improvement an ability that's an ongoing fiscal responsibility kind of ties
into the focus areas to look at where those opportunities may be for that ongoing
continuous process improvement and what's going on.
Zaremba: It's maybe a different way of saying the same thing but the way I
describe that is as we grow, or any organization but this city in particular as we
grow we step a little higher on the ladder which means we can see a little farther
Meridian City Council Special Workshop
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over the horizon and we get a litfle bigger and we take another step up the ladder
not only are we maybe not able to identify today something that we'll see very
clearly 10 years from now that we should be doing the continuous improvement
is something that will keep identifying those (inaudible) but we also need to each
department in their own areas. As we get bigger and bigger we cross thresholds
that require federal requirements and other local practices maybe a better way of
doing business for 100,000 people than you would have done it for 10,000
people. Just asking the directors to keep watching for those things that need to
change as we evolve and that's exactly what you said continuous process
improvement. My point was you see new horizons you step higher.
Stiffler: Any other discussion or comments referencing particularly 36 and 3C?
The last question there is it that we will have a different approach to providing
these services? I guess that question begs itself as a different approach. I think
we've talked a little bit about the approach right now just in what Councilman
Zaremba said. I said does anybody have any other comment regarding that? I
think if's intended to be an approach that you think gets the best end result and is
ongoing as the level goes up to try to say how do we continue to maintain. Are
there any other comments? Before we skip past identity we would like to take a
quick break.
De Weerd: Why did we skip question 2?
Stiffler: We did it.
De Weerd: Kind of. I don't know I guess I really want to see how we could start
using technology to keep even the elected that are informed like an information
dashboard or somefhing that can keep (inaudible) upon crime statistics for fire
calls or flows. I guess as you look at how you can use technology to keep your
elected officials informed so that as a citizen might direct a question their way
they have an ability to have more instant information instead of calling someone.
They have to gather the data just even building permits. Okay well what is the
building permit count and how is that related to the year before?
Rountree: My comment to that is to me that's all stuff that could be part of the
webpage as public information. Why should it be just for us to analyze. I don't
want to analyze if for somebody who asked the question I want to say iYs all
public document it's on the webpage take a look at it for yourself.
De Weerd: Yes but there is a way to present it to you guys versus having it out
there on the web. There's going to be different needs for that. I guess just
looking at information accelerated (inaudible) that can give us the tools as - and
certainly we need to bring those things to you when we make decisions but you
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have those at your fingertips as well and always looking at the efficiencies too.
It's kind of like fhe meter reading. Now that you can radio read them that you
don't have to have extra personnel to go out there where can we find those
efficiencies and that is a technology accelerator that we need to be considering
as well. I don't know if they're necessarily new technology but iYs bringing ideas
to the discussion that make sense to a vision of I guess more accessibility or
connectiveness to our citizens. They don't necessarily have to come to city hall
to get the information it is available online and vice versa to our different workers
fihat are out in the field. That technology is there with them so they reduce the
number of trips they have to come back to the off.ice or what have you. I'm sorry
I kind of missed the (inaudible).
Nary: I was going to say Mayor, maybe to follow up on my earlier comment of
what you just said. I agree with the Council. We are the government we are
rarely going to be the first people to do anything. That's just the nature of the
beast somefiimes in government. We may be the first governmental entity to do
something. Someone else will amend it, we edit it we try to make it flow the
citizens' needs and make use of it that way but I would - I think from the IT
perspective that's what we would continue to try to do. To follow up with your
comment Mayor I think part of it is really educating fhe public and educating the
elected officials. So many times we talk to the public about something that they
don't understand and they are very frustrated about whether iYs traffic where the
school is located or whether it's why that pathway is here or that park is there or
whatever. We have lots and lots of information and sometimes we don't share it
enough with the elected officials so they can tell that story to their constituence
we don't always know the means to share it to the public to educate them that
the decisions for these weren't made in a vacuum we didn't try to do this to upset
their lives. we did it because it made logical sense from the cifies business
perspective but we didn't always have the opportunity to share it or we didn't
know how to share it better. Maybe that's one of the things with IT that we could
help provide all of you with better information in some fashion. I don't know what
that is today but some way because many times you folks get bombarded with
things from consfituents or other agencies that we just haven't given you the
information. You can go back and get it from us but we need to find a better way
to get fhat into your hands sooner fhe same thing with the public. Many times
when you do educate people about it I mean other than the people that live right
next to it and don't like it, it doesn't matter what you tell them, when you educate
people about it and they understand all of the thought process that went into it
they don't get quite as upset anymore. They kind of get it. They understand.
They might not like the outcome but they understand that their concerns weren't
thrown away or ignored but really did go into the big picture and you still try to
make a decision.
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De Weerd: Well we just need a user friendly website. We need -
Nary: More information and better access to it.
Stiffler: I guess something to summarize. I think that just to quickly kind of move
on as I see that as far as looking at technology from an information base looking
to leadership to come back with any recommendations that may be there to
enhance that as Bill outlined. I also think the finro connect also as I heard from
Council that they were saying also the same as process improvement if you can
bring technology, we're not looking at developing technology but we working
technology enhance the productivity of what we do opportunifies within the
operations of services that enhance that.
Bird: Mr. President.
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Can I follow up on something that Bill said. Bill I want to tell you I think
right now that we are getting fhe most (inaudible) facts and figures from all of the
departments that we have ever gotten. I'm very appreciative of it. Your office
certainly keeps us informed on anything thaYs confidential. We usually get that
out in one day. Ron and Stacy and the Billing Department and all of that we get
monthly reports on that. I think the Chief is quarterly on the poiice. I feel that I'm
probably fhe best informed elected official in the valley because of it. We'll go
back to Charlie. We have a nice website and if we get it out on that - if we can't
explain it to them all we have to tell them is go to it because we want people to
use that website. As somebody earlier said, I'll guarantee by 2015 very few
checks will be going over a counter at city hall. They will be being paid through
the intemet. I think all departments have been very open which I highly
appreciate and I truthfully believe we're the best informed elected officials and
how we handle it fhaYs our problem. I think we get to the website as Charlie said
- we get a nice website and its all public record. I have nothing but compliments
on the way the information gets to me from every department.
Tanner: Actually if I could add one other thing. One of the big things we're
looking at is adding an enterprise level software system and with doing that one
of the big problems we have right now is in the public departments being able to
communicate togefher quick enough or (inaudible) communication at all. We're
hoping with that to be able to get the departmenta to talk to one another better
and the same thing we'll get that same information back to the public like doing
things like permitting and that kind of stuff (inaudible) do them online and have
them come into the system. Then all of the different departments in the city can
actually see those permits and work on them and work them all the way through
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Page 29 of 51
~ where right now it kind of goes to one department and no one else can see
whaYs going on. We're hoping that it will reaily improve things.
De Weerd: Well and it's more efficient. There's less duplicafiion that you're not
all inputting or having to touch it fhat many times as well. Same wifh HR and
~ accounting and payroll so it is finding efficiencies through not single user
' programs but that you have multi-user ones.
Rounfiree: Back here at 7:15.
Canning: Do you want me to just call again at 7:15?
De Weerd: Yes
Break
Rountree: We're ready to move onto economic strategy.
Nary: This is all Stacy has been waiting for.
Stiffler: Again this was intended to be at the bigger level of looking at the overall
strategy if's not intended to get down to the nitty gritty. ThaYs for future reference
and again as I just reiterated that we go through fhis step and like to get the
discussion going back and forth of any comments or any questions of leadership.
Then the last item next steps is not what we're going through tonight that's more
of the next steps for leadership to come back and respond to this taken from your
input. I would have to say in fhe second paragraph there under economic
strategy there were several financial strategies that leadership brought forward
and just for discussion points having to do with fees support the full impacted
growth, existing rate payer support growth, manage growfih concurrent with the
available capacity and partnerships to fund smaller identified projects. Those
were just more in the broader picture. I think Tom and Anna - I don't know if
Anna is still on the phone or not -
Nary: She is supposed to call back. I'm just sending her an email saying we're
back on so she should call in a second.
Stiffler: But when those were identified I think those were just meant to be more
of - because Tom you were part of that we were looking at options to kind of - to
engage some discussion about what Council may view about some of those
things. Those questions all do kind of beg and some of those strategies they beg
to also looking down through 4A, 4B, 4C and 4D. I guess the fiirst question and
maybe that - considering how this city should financially accommodate future
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growth. I would ask that - ask for any comment as it related to kind of the bigger
picture strategies that could be impacfing that.
De Weerd: Anna?
Canning: Yes.
De Weerd: Hi.
Canning: Hi.
Rountree: We're going over economic strategies Anna.
Canning: Pardon.
Rountree: We're going over economic strategies and Phil has just asked us if
there are any comments on the approach to financial strategies to accommodate
growth.
Canning: Okay.
B'ird: I'm sure you've got an answer to that.
Rountree: We just started so if anybody - I guess I'll give you my thoughts. You
have given us the basic four strategies in your little white paper here. It seems to
me that all of those are essentially strategies and you've said what I'm going to
say you have to (inaudible) strategies depending on the situation and the
department you are wifih. I#'s how innovative you can get with those strategies. I
don't see the city getting in a business where we're going to have a profit unless
some of the services that we have we want to sell for awhile and / or do we have
some infrastructure that we want to sell and put the money in the bank or those
kinds of things but short of the normal taxing fees impact fees hopefully at some
point in time the locai option, revenues, bonding if need be, LtD's, CI'D's if we
have the possibility of CID's. How do you bury a multitude of those to do
whatever it is we want to do?
Kilchenmann: I see bonding as being major and LID's like you said.
Rountree: Yes I think they are in my opinion implying impact fees if you will.
De Weerd: I think one of the things that will be helpful when we bring a detailed
plan back is to detail the tools that we do have and what they can be used for. I
think we have to have a better grasp of the type of funding tools we do have as
Meridian City Council Special Workshop
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Fage 31 of 51
we explore some of this. I do know there were some specific questions on this
and Council you have four different considerations there. To us some of it
depends on what the issue is we're looking at funding for as you have
characterized. Is there anyfihing you wouldn't ever want us to consider or do you
have strong feelings in any particular direcfion? I guess that's what we need to -
we need to know what your side boards are.
Rountree: I guess my side boards and this is probably foreseen (inaudible) is in
terms of strategic planning I don't know that we necessarily ought to be relying
on increase in property tax. Now we can rely on increasing property values and
the tax generated there but not significantly altering the property tax.
De Weerd: And that's exactly what we're looking for.
~
B'ird: Mr. President. I agree wholeheartedly. I think to go back unless there's
our economic strategy is one of our big zoning points is our taxes. When
businesses come in we not only have a good climate here but we have the
lowest taxes. I'm like what Charlie brought up on fees, we're not to make a profit
but we've got to eover the cost. So many times in the past our fees have not
covered even the cost and you're entitled to cover your cost. Your cost also
includes maintenance, inflation and some reserve that you can also put in. Our
biggest downfall has been that we as elected officials, and I'm talking about
seven of us in the room here that have sat on the Council at one time in the
Mayor's place, we haven't checked them enough. We need to review these
every year.
De Weerd: And we are.
Bird: We are now Tammy but we're still - we can still catch up. That's the
problem you get 10 years behind and you just can't go out and catch up in one
year because they would kill us. I think Charlie said last time we brought those
fees forward one of the statements that were made was yes we need this but we
don't dare put it in right now. I think the main thing is we make sure we get our
costs and sure we don't need to have a 25 or 30 percent profit but we need to
make sure we get our costs. Everything that we just discussed is costs.
Rountree: I think the other strategy from my point of view on fine actions is we all
need to keep our eyes and ears open on whaYs happening in the nation at the
local level. If there is a modification to an existing statute in the state or any
statue in the state with a new mechanism we all need to be ambassadors
through AIC to get at least a hearing at the legislature because I think the
message we have given them over the past few years is in order to have
sustainability you need tools and in order to move away from the cry about
Meridian City Council Special Woricshop
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increases in property taxes you need tools. We all have to do our due diligence
there. The directors and everyone else because quite frankly the directors are
the ones that are going to hear about the innovative solutions out there and your
networking first. By all means don't hesitate bringing it forward for a discussion.
If they catch fire I know I'll support it with AfC and get on committees to move
things forward and I suspect the rest of us would as well.
De Weerd: I think it's too, if you seek new regulatory changes that are going to
have real negative cost impacts we need to immediately be recognizing that and
be talking to our congressman to our state officials as well and communicating
fhat these unfunded band aids what kind of financial impact it really has. I know
everyone is sfiruggling with that but iYs more again going back to that anticipatory
thinking and how we can be better advocates for our community for the fiscal
impacts fhat will be coming down. I imagine most of those Tom, are going to be
more in your rental but we need to know those as you do.
Kilchenmann: Mr. Rountree I just wanted to remind everybody that on fhe
internet we do have our revenue manual that describes all the sources of
revenue fhat we have now and we'll just be releasing the '09 one next week so
that one will be online.
Rountree: That's on our webpage?
Kilchenmann: Yes.
Rountree: David.
Zaremba: I was just going to comment its good that we have a lot of different
sources too, of revenue and any tax or fee that you look at, if you look at only
that tax or only that fee it has good effects and bad effects and it will help some
people or hurt some people. The issue to me is to use all of the tools a little bit
so that we don't load all of the city costs into property tax or all of it into a fee.
We need to get a little bit from each one of those because they hit the users and
the citizens differently and we try not to load all of the pain into one of fihem. I am
in favor of using as many of the tools that we can specifically on the impact fees
just a reminder that generally I think by state law those have to be tied to a
capital improvements plan and my point there is to the directors and to ourselves,
make sure that your capital improvements plan aren't short selling us. Being
sure that you're thinking of things that we need and may need out in the future
that we don't need today but if we're ever going to attach an impact fee to them
they have to be in the capital improvements plan and just make fhat connection.
One is a question. I probably should know this answer but when we all move into
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city hall are we going to have some gain or savings from not leasing a lot of
places?
Kilchenmann: No.
Zaremba: No?
Kilchenmann: The additional costs to the city hall will offset the leasing.
Anderson: (lnaudible) utilities and that or do they increase enough that it would
make up the lease?
Kilchenmann: Yes by the time the utilities and the janitorial and the maintenance
person and all the ofher costs. Actually you'll see that because we're going to
account for it different we're going to put it - instead of splitting it up into the all of
the departmenfis we're going to put it in another government fund that will just be
split equally in the funds to be able to look at one department and you will see
those base costs. You know grounds keeping and so forth so when you look at
; the '09 budget you will see ail of those costs together.
Borton: Mr. President. One comment on the other side of the impact fee
~ discussion is to be sensitive to the impact of the impact fee for example on
; economic development and to make sure while we want to capture our costs we
. still focus on our own internal efficiencies. IYs easy to be inefficient which
; creates cost (inaudible) and just throw it on the applicator or developer or what
not in fact we might be able to -- and we need to make sure we have the
discipline to be focused to improve our own internal efficiencies because we can
load up a capital improvement plan wifh so many gidgets, gadgets and projects
that we actually stifle growth and actually prevent funding the capital
improvements we intended to create. There's a balance there.
Rountree: I appreciate that. That's a legifimate point in the process that we
make is are we discouraging people because of our fees. We might have the
lowest taxes but by the time we pencil it all out it costs more to come to Meridian.
Bird: Mr. President I don't disagree. I agree wholeheartedly with that but I also
think that we need to make sure that we are very efficient within our departments
and we also need to make sure we cut a lot of red tape. Red tape will run
developers away faster than fees.
Stiffler: I would like to interchange just a little bit. What Councilman Bird said is I
think and I know Anna is on the other side of fhe phone. I'm looking at Tom here
and I would say this is one of the biggest compliments related to the economic
Meridian City Council Special Workshop
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development side and looking and talking with people is the appreciative nature
kind of which Joe was saying that balance but they appreciate nature that what
the staff has actually been doing. Because we all know that developers time is
money and that time is money and I would say Anna is on the other side of the
phone but I would say right now we have a very solid reputation as a community
for trying to eliminate that red tape and giving people the answers to what they
need to get done in a very timely fashion professionally. I would also say with
what Joe has said, recent experiences pointed out to ~us that difference when
somebody is evaluating our community, it isn't just that one item iYs that multiple
of items and we need to be able to be compefiitive in that nature to sustain where
we really want to be. I think right now, we need to maintain what we're doing and
that still means continuing to be as efficient as we possibly can in what we do
because that's fhe responsibility that allows us to be competitive in that nature.
Bird:. Mr. President. Phil, I think one thing fhat also drives the deal. We have to
be efficient because right now Meridian is becoming the second Boise in land
price. We got building in the 90's because our land prices were cheap and
Boise's was high. Now Nampa and Caldwell is getting a lot of looks because of
simple land prices. If you can go buy a lot over there for $30,000 and you have
70 or $80,000 if makes a difference so that's why we have to be efficient and do
our job right. We certainly can't compete on the land prices anymore.
De Weerd: And we can't Keith but one of the things that we found when this
most recent large inquirer fhat we had hoped would come to the Treasure Valley
as we work with Ada County and I'm sorry I'm standing behind you but I needed
a wall, as we work with Ada County versus Canyon County we found that to look
at that small business employer growth incentive that the state has that our tax
base versus Canyon County - in Canyon County they recoup their 15 million
dollars in three years of property taxes. It took five years in Ada County to
recoup fhat so that's the vast difference. You may pay less in property but over
fime you are actually going to pay a lot more so that's our story to tell and we
certainly have to make sure that it's told appropriately. Those are the things that
we do point out and that you can tout because that is a long term business
expense and that definitely impacts those larger businesses.
Bird: And I'll be the first to tell you that I know Nampa is very, very embarrassed
with their growth I mean very embarrassed and rightfully so.
Stiffler: They definitely were when we actually did the variety of the finro cast flow
protections because I did the ones for - that I provided to Ada County and I did
those and present value and then they did theirs and I can tell you our response
was very posifive in comparison and fhey didn't - it was a little bit embarrassing
as Keith would say because it was a significant difference.
Meridian City Council Special Workshop
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Bird: They will be the first to tell you.
De Weerd: No they won't be the first to tell you they won't be able to figure it out.
Bird: They were very embarrassed over it.
Stiffler: To move forward I guess a little bit past I think we covered potentially
some of the strategies and some of the commentaries I think as it relates to a
bigger picture vision that Council is giving to staff. I guess is fhere any question
from leadership that would help to clarify anything within 4A right now that you
feel you would - Ron?
Anderson: I just wanted to - I think I hear what they're saying but again I think
it's kind of a deal where Keith and Charlie all mentioned that it is really balancing
and for me because Police and Fire obviously are the two biggest strains on the
city's budget. We don't bring in much income but we're two of the essential
services that the city provides and we understand that. We've done certain
things within the Fire Department like our partnership with the Rural District that
considerably helps out the city financially. My question I guess for you guys is
we have the ability through state law to collect fees for our services and so how
aggressive do you want us to get with that is my question? Because we can
charge people for every time we do auto extrication. We can charge people who
do not live in our district. We can have a fee every time they have a car wreck all
those kinds of things and we can charge people when they have mulfiple fire
alarms. My question is and iYs kind of like Joe was talking about is we need to
balance that. If you want me to collect every fee fhat I can collect out there I
mean I might be able to generate another $100,000 but is it worth all of the
people that you make mad and all of the businesses you drive off because you're
nickel and diming them to death. I guess the philosophy is what I would like to
hear from you guys do you want us to go after every fee fihat we can or would
you like us to maintain that balance so that they can (inaudible) talk about that
makes fhis community people still want to come to.
Bird: Mr. President.
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
B'ird: I think Charlie said it Ron fihat we're not out to make a big profit. You know
you say we could pick up $100,000 I hate to guess - she would have to hire a full
time person and collectors and everything else. I think we - and I think
taxpayers know that fire and police thaYs what our taxes pay for. You guys have
got your impacts for capital improvements and you know and thank goodness in
Meridian Ciry Council Special Workshop
April 29, 2008
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fhe Fire Department we do have the rural and it's been a very very good
partnership with us. As we get bigger they are going to get smaller. I think there
are some fees you want to leave alone. They're like grants some grants cost you
more than you get.
Lavey: Mr. President. Just to add onto what Ron said is that the Police
Department does charge for false alarms when you exceed a certain amount and
that was mainly for annoyance taken away from critical services when they're
needed elsewhere. We didn't start doing it until it became so burdensome that
90 percent of the false alarms were even higher or 90 percent were false. ThaYs
the only service that we charge for other than paper copies and that sort of thing.
One of the things you need to look at is your ability to collect even if you do
charge, and how much of that time does it take to actually charge for fihose
services. ThaYs the same argument that we've done here recently is change
some of the way we do things because the staff time was so great fhat we were
actually spending more in staff time than the actual savings that we were doing.
That's one thing that we need to look at too. With Ron and I we've had that
discussion as far as we are public servants and we are supposed to serve the
public but at what cost does that come. It comes in your property taxes and all of
the other taxes that you pay and yes there's that discussion that well is it fair if
someone out of the city becomes a vicfiim or needs our services while in our city.
I guess that whoever's in our city at that time fihey are ours to take care of. It
doesn't matter if fhey live here or not that's the type of community that we want to
be. I just think it's kind of silly to start doing that.
Bird: Well it's the same token that if I'm in Boise and have a heart attack I sure
hope the Boise Fire comes to save me instead of sending me to Meridian. I
agree.
Nary: I guess I would say from our end because we're in the general fund as
well. What my expectation always is is that the elected officials ~of the city want
me as a department director to be looking out for the cities best interest and
where fees are appropriate if we believe there is a fee that is appropriate like for
example the development agreement fee that is part of the planning fees that we
just passed. We eat up a lot of our time on that we probably make up for some
on the fee and probably lose a little on some of the other peoples of the fee but
we overall are trying to recapture some of that cost so my expectation or
understanding from the elected officials is what you want from us is that input
and that expertise and that recommendafion and yet fihis is one we should be
charging for or no this is really what we believe is a city service that really isn't
tax payer sort of a general service that they would expect not to have to pay a
fee for. My experience has been sometimes if we try to capture too many of
them it just makes it uncomfortable for everybody. It makes it uncomfortable for
Meridian City Council Special Woricshop
April 29, 2008
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' us to collect it it makes it difficult for us to collect it it makes it uncomfortable for
you in the Mayor's office to enforce fhat, explain it and educate people and public
~ safety arena. I wrote an ordinance 10 years ago for the City of Boise to charge
~ people when they rescue them on the river because fhey're too stupid to know
' not to go on the river and I wrote it twice, they passed it both times and then they
repealed it both items. If's very difficult for them to want to charge people for
~ certain types of emergency services and I understand that. I think thaYs - I
, guess my expectation on our strategy list is your desire is we'll be open to it if we
~~ think there is a necessity or an appropriateness to it we bring that to you, bring a
+ recommendation and bring fhat fee back. Is that fair? Does that make sense?
~ Rountree: That was going to be my comment to Ron you know the Fire
~ Department always implies to me that you are there for a public service to put out
; fiires. Most of your mission anymore is medical services. If you look at part of
~ those medical services through Ada County, they charge you to transport you.
~ They want to make a monopoly out of it as best they could. If for instance, you're
: on a wreck and you have to use your extractors etc. is that a billable charge that
~ you bill to the insurance company? Just like the guard rail that gets taken out or
~ the sign that gets taken out or whatever if they have liability or collision whatever
in damages to insure those I can tell you right now that the county and the state
~ ~ go after it - after that cost to fix whatever structure was damaged. Again I just
' throw it out to you. If in fact it pencils out the cost of collecting is not so
~ horrendous that they actually make enough money to buy that ladder truck I don't
, know or buy updated extracting equipment or better training or whatever with
~ hybrid vehicle and all kinds of stuff you run into now you know potentially killing
your folks or (inaudible) I don't know. I would be open to it if you brought it
~ forward. There again I agree with what Stacy said we don't want to create an
: accounting nightmare.
Anderson: (Inaudible) answer your question yes we could bill for some of those
fees but if you look at like Ada County EMS for example they are running on the
people fhat fhey bill or they're running on 45 percent (inaudible--------------------).
' De Weerd: I guess what it comes down to is if we want to continue to have that
; small town feel those are areas unless you see some cost benefit to even justify
' it.
Rountree: And you do hear from people that come from larger areas when
they're (inaudible). ~
Anderson: That's why we've been selective and you look at the rural city
partnership that brought in some substantial money. The impact fees that brings
in substantial money but we're not coming to you with all of those. If we had the
Meridian Ciry Council Special Workshop
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opportunity to pick up a good grant that doesn't have a lot of strings attached and
bring that to you too.
De Weerd: You do good Ron.
Sti .ffler: David you had a comment?
Zaremba: It's been said.
Sfiffler: IYs been said. Okay. I think that when Ron brought that up as an
example covers a couple of questions (inaudible) to what other strategies or what
other things could be done or maybe the emphasis or what not to consider. I
think there's been a general discussion about keeping that community feel but
still be open to bring something to your attention if they think it will still fit within
those guidelines and be appropriate for consideration by Council. I would - I
guess question 4D I think that Charlie - or excuse me President Rountree made
a comment on the integrated strategies by department or fund kind of integrated
in each area that there is a question there that I think leadership put down does
your preference vary by department or by fund? I guess that question still is out
there for any clarification. Go ahead Stacy.
Kilchenmann: I interrupted in nature of the funds that's kind of answered. I'm not
sure who had the question but the enterprise fund by its nature is self supporting
so the way we do - I mean we could structure it so fhe general fund - it's not a
great strategy but the general fund can't support the enterprise fund legally.
Bird: It can't legally but -
Kilchenmann: We've never chosen that strategy so they by nature are self
supporting where certain - the main corrections of the general fund by nature are
not self supporting but considered to be services for the general public fhey pay
, for through taxing_ I would say one of our - the second largest source of general
fund after property tax is sales tax so President Rountree's comment about
staying really involved with the legislature and being right on top of fiscal impact
so changes are really crucial because that is our second - fhat's like 17 or 18
' percent of our general fund budget. We have a development services fund we
kind of fhink of it as self supporting because in the past it has been but when we
show you '09 it isn't. It really is technically its part of fhe general fund we have
~ just chosen by ordinance to set that aside.
Rountree: The question is whether you get the financial strategies even if the
, funds are separate by their nature. I don't care what strategies you guys use to
build that fun whatever works if if's a fee or by an impact fee or some other fee
~ Meridian Ciry Council Special Workshop
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~ Page 39 of 51
~ charged for the service fine. If it works if its user fee based or hook up fee based
or however it is set up whatever works for the situation. You got a question here
~ about parks or about pathways how do we get them all integrated probably a
~ multiple combination of some of these things to move forth and do it. (Inaudible)
~ a CID now that we have the ability city wide or impact area wide that identifies
: fhe capital infrastructure improvements in the pathway that need to be done and
~ what iYs going to cost and what it costs each household. Bond to do it I don't
know. Thaf's the way to do it or I mean you could look at well we can alter
alternative compliance for various fhings that people could do in the development
and then they could make a payment into a pafhway fund for alternative
compliance and at some, point in time the funds that I think - I don't know IeYs be
creafive and figure out how we can make these things work.
Stiffler: I guess that would go back to fhe comment when the Mayor mentioned
about tool box. I guess I'm hearing from you is that also -
, Rountree: LeYs back down a bit.
, Stiffler: But I guess I'm just saying from the bigger picture saying being creative
to look at some of those other tools that can be in the tool box both by the virtue
of even proactive polifiically within whaYs going on in the state and the other
issues that have been brought up. Any other comments about question 4D or
any comments from any of the other Councilman or the Mayor? I'm going to
move to question 5 then having to do with how does the Council want to
• approach partnerships in the future. We have already had some discussions
' about partnerships and I sense there is a view of a little bit of looking at
opportunities to be able to do that. I would say that looking at even from both
leadership or from Council is there any emphasis or examples of where you see
future other partnering opportunities or what could have an appropriate impact in
~ fhe strategies in the future.
, Borton: Mr. President. There isn't a list that we haven't already addressed to
some extent its ofher government agencies state local it's the school district, iYs
` public private development which is in it infancy here but there's opportunities in
~~ the next 12 monfhs to really develop that with COMPASS, DMV, etc. utilizing
some mixed use development of UP there's always discussion. I don't know that
, there's a partnership that we want to turn away from. The school district that is
~ one at least for me that just jumps out as a huge opportunity with what Steve is
trying to do with the Parks and Recreation Program and starting to get that
formalized a little bit.
Rountree: I don't disagree with Joe's comment. I fhink we should be open to
every partnership but IeYs make a list of things required. Let's not redo some of
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these things that we've got ourselves involved in and ended up costing us more
than we anticipated. It doesn't matter whether it's Heritage or Bittercreek or you
name it we have warts on all of them that have ended up costing us time and
money and a lot of fime and in some cases a lot of money. Let's, make sure that
we have that laundry list of things to include in contracts and agreements. As we
learn more will come up and we'll get more in there but let's at least learn from
where we have gone.
Bird: Mr. President. Let's make it a partnership, partner ship.
Rountree: I agree.
Bird: LeYs don't be the money pockets for somebody to use. I tell you and I've
brought this up a thousand times and everybody is sick of it but a partnership to
me is what Optimist Football is with Boise City Parks. That was a true - they
gave us the land that is a partnership. If we're going to go out and build
somefhing for somebody that is something else. ~
De Weerd: But Keith you know you also say time and time again we're not
Boise.
Bird: That's right.
De Weerd: We don't have the historical roots that some of fhese programs or
communities have that can have the luxury of fhe expectation like the Optimist
Football Field. That was phenomenal and I would love to find examples of where
those actually do work in other situations especially in a new community like
Meridian is with its growth. We also have to have some realities too, on what
those expectations can and should be. Those are the things that we need to
find. ~
Bird: You have one park the biggest part developed without a penny of taxpayer
dollar or even purchased. The back part of Storey's Park the city doesn't have a
penny in it.
De Weerd: And how oid is it?
Bird: American Legion Baseball did one and Walt Morrow did the other one.
There can be partnerships and iYs not just beaause we are new. Fuller Park is a
good example. Not a lot of taxpayer dollars fhere. That's not to me an excuse
I'm just saying if we're going to have a partnership it's a partnership. If not IeYs
don't call it a partnership.
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Anderson: I think the problem for us as Directors though, partnerships take on
so many different looks and feel and so we have to just listen to what somebody
has that they want to present to us. If they want to build a restroom in fihe park
which isn't much but is that a partnership that you value and that you want to
take on. We're just kind of the messengers sometimes bringing to you guys
here's what somebody has presented to us and we would be more than glad to
give you our take on it. We think this is a good partnership or a bad partnership
or whatever but ultimately you guys are the ones who decide if you want to take
on fihat partnership. We can't always bring you I guess the perfect deal that you
guys envision that here's a 50 / 50 partnership because they don't all present
themselves that way.
Bird: But Ron that person is building that toilet or that playground and isn't
expecting exclusive rights.
De Weerd: They want to be fhe first to play on it.
Bird: But what I'm talking about is somebody that wants exclusive rights to it.
Zaremba: Mr. President. I would just say in considering partnerships we do
need to consider whether or not - even if there is some gift involved in it to the
city or whatever whether getting it accomplished the end result is going to mean
more contract administration on our staffs time and follow up and investigation
and oversight than it would be to just do it ourselves. If somebody offers
something and we say gee we can save $50,000 by having them do and then we
put $50,000 into watching them and making sure it gets done right it's a higher
maintenance cost later or something then that isn't a help. I like partnerships but
we do need to investigate to make sure that it isn't going to cost more to run it.
, Borton; Mr. President. The comment to that from me - my concern isn't so
much the quid pro quo and equality of the exchange as the viability of our
partnership. That's the biggest hurdle is the concept and relationship can sound
great and can sound equal but if the other side - and I need help at least to
stepping that out and knowing who really can step up to the line and get it done
because I could seeing us getting stuck where the partnership is going to look
~ great, we perform and they can't, oh shucks we tried and wanted to do great can
'' you help us out? We're already too late and the ability to perform is key.
Stiffler: I think I agree. I would just add that the ability to perform as Joe
' indicated is we'll say that I've been involved with a few ofher cities but because of
a circumstance like you said I'm going to donate you this go cart track and then
they find out it's great the donation but on the other hand it's costing them x
amount of dollars to look at them doing it. In taking a priva#e enterprise approach
Meridian Ciry Council Special Workshop
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Page 42 of 51
when partnerships are brought up the quid pro quo what it maybe is there saying
is let's understand the ability to perform the same as you and look at it legally as
partners coming together. What are both partners bringing to the table and
what's the financial analysis of the impact of that and what are the parties ability
to perform under that so at least when it comes to you as Council as best as you
can is it's almost a requirement which is in fhe good faith of the partnership is to
understand both parties capabilities in related to what is being brought there.
Then you can evaluate the same as if you were in fhe private enterprise segment
of it~.
De Weerd: That's what we need to bring to the Council is very fair to do that.
However, you also need to factor in the residual benefits as well and involve
community if it's a community build and man it takes just as much time
supervising them than if I just did it myself but it is fhe community involvement it's
the by in. You have a residual intangible benefit there that you would never be
able to buy. There are those things too fhat we also have to put on the table too
when Council considers what those partnerships are so that when you make a
decision all of those things are mapped out in front of you.
Bird: Mr. President. I don't think the only partnerships that we can have within
the city is with the Parks Department. I think fhere are a lot of other partnerships
we can come into with the private. We have in the past had lots of partnerships.
De Weerd; Yes the K-9 Facility.
Bird: The K-9 Facility is a good example. Landscaping and not only that we
have a lot of sewage put in by developers. Generations so partnerships don't
just come in parks though. I think we need to just look at everyone on a case by
case basis.
' Stiffler: Any other questions from leadership relating to that partnership
question? I'm going to move on to Question Number 6 which I think we acfiually
- there was some discussion President Rountree mentioned about the possibility
~ related about the Pathways Plan. I guess I would ask - I guess that first question
is more of an overall question thaf's being asked by leadership. Does Council
want development to drive the identity character the community or fihe city drive
the developed amenities? I guess thaYs the question that was put together. Any
response?
Siddoway: If I can give just 30 seconds of background too. We now have the
Meridian Master Pathways Plan in place. It was recently adopted. It does have
in it as I've reviewed it, a list of pathway conneations that would need to be city
funded because it's in already built out areas and another list that would be
~ Meridian City Council Special Workshop
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Page 43 of 51
~~ development driven. We have lists existing for both of those but the question is
how soon do we want to jump in and start developing and building some of those
city funded ones or do we just wait until we have more of the development driven
system in place.
Bird: (Inaudible) we would have to purchase the right of ways and what if we
can't. Bill, if we're going through - our pathways through an existing
, development and the people that own that ground don't want 10 or 15 feet of
their backyard taken out? What are we going to do?
Nary: Well I think that's - I think you're probably going to have to develop a fairly
comprehensive strategy to approach all of fhem. First you have to identify what
' you have and how you're going to get them. Boise, when the greenbelt when it
was at its final stages that's exactly how they decided. First they had to identify
what they had and how would they get it. First step they tried to do was donate.
For many of the people that was fine. They could use the tax right off. It was
' either going to be fenced off to them so they didn't have to worry about people in
their yards or they didn't - fhey could see the greater good. You're not likely to
get an imminent domain to go fhrough for a pathway and you're probably not
going to want to do that anyway. I mean that may not be very comfortable. You
may end up in a situation where I think Boise ended up with where they are trying
to buy. If not than they have to bypass it and look around and thaYs what they
had to do. I think you have to look at which pieces and parts you have left and
thaYs - fhe first challenge is to figure out what point you have to decide what you
~ have and what you need to get and then decide how to we get there. Certainly
like I said there are a lot of folks especially when you're dealing with Parks and
, Pathways that are interested in donating 15 feet of their backyard that they don't
~ use. There are others you don't want people walking in your backyard not matter
what you do. That's the challenge. You have that testimony regarding the
. pathway along the ditch bank over near Chateau Park. None of those people
' want it but they're not going to live fhere forever either. There are things to do
that but yes; I don't think you would get there other than through just a normal
real estate transaction process.
Kilchenmann: Did Boise start that before a lot of the development was there is
that why they were able to do it?
Nary: It depends on the area. Certainly some of it was undeveloped or
transitioned and some of it was new development. Some of it was done when
some of the apartments that is along the greenbelt between Julia Davis and
Municipal Park for example. A lot of those wanted to come in building apartment
complexes and things and so they were more than happy to want to get rid of
some of that. Some of that was done - one of the people that did that was Marty
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Page 44 of 51
Igo who we've use he did a lot of fhat. But also they had a person with the Parks
Department also that worked through the different irrigation districts. It was an
education process to the irrigafiion districts to let people walk along the ditch
banks because they would prefer, as you mostly know, in Meridian, they don't
want any one out there they would prefer that. They figured out they could have
people walking along those areas that wouldn't interfere with them it wouldn't
interfere with the water delivery but it was just meeting with them, figuring out
what would work for them, which areas and now I think they're a lot more
educated so we don't have to start it from scratch like they did 10, 15 or 20 years
ago. There's at least some mindset to do it but again, it's really just building
those relationships and getting those folks interested in what could work for them
pieces and parts along the way.
Rountree: I guess my response to the question is if we zero it down to the
pathway system fhen we're back down to ground zero. If the (inaudible)
requesfing is developed to drive the character of our community or this
community try to be flexible enough to give development to reflect what the
community is because fhat's what we do here. If we have a plan for something,
whefiher iYs downtown redevelopment or pathways, then we try to get
~ development done in such a way that we have continuity in those plans. If we
have a plan in place and there are things in the city that need to be done the
development isn't going to take care of on voids in fhe pathway system. If we
~ have a plan in place and we want a pathway system then we ought to be
legitimate with them at least making an effort to try to make some of those
systems work that is a whole lot easier to tell the developer you know that we're
` wanting to make it work and we're spending money to make it work we want you
again, to provide this portion of the pathway. At some point in time, it will be a
, while but we'll make it work. It's not like it's just going to sit there and be open
forever but if we have a plan in place and we're not a working plan fihen whaYs
the point in having a plan. We approved the plan so I guess that's something we
~ want to do if iYs not something we want to do then we didn't have it on the books.
Zaremba: I think to me the question goes to how aggressive do we want to be in
; #he areas that are already developed. My understanding is from the
, development that comes in fhat we're doing a good job of beating them up for the
pafhways that we need but retrofitting areas where we desire a pathway where
~ fhere is a few gaps in it how aggressive do we want to be about connecting that
gap and to me it may be kind of a percentage. If we had 80 percent of that
pathway except for two people's properties I probably would feel more
aggressive about that. If we were still only at 20 percent of the pathway I'm not
sure we're justified in being that aggressive but that's just my opinion.
De Weerd: We do it with the easement requirements for sewer and water.
Meridian City Council Special Workshop
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, Page 45 of 51
Zaremba: That's true.
De Weerd: We just have a plan and iYs executed over time and iYs just going to
take pafience. I think it has already been stated that if we have a plan we have
to start working it and we have to bring a plan of prioritization back to you all to
say this is kind of what we're thinking as we have looked at what is currenfly
developed what has been at least dedicated, and where our gaps are and these
are - this is going to be our plan to work and start filling those gaps.
' Rountree: And back to ground zero (inaudible) 30,000 feet. You have
community projects through ACHD that none of them have any pathways being
; requested with that million dollar pot of money. (Inaudible) problem on it when
then you hit the state level for bikes to school walk to school on activity. I don't
, know if we have an application for that (inaudible) but if that's what we want to do
; there's a couple hundred thousand dollars a year that potentially we could start
, closing a couple of small gaps in our system without even going to the general
; fund. That's one financial creative way to do it. (Inaudible) no strings attached. I
~ suspect there are probably some other national grant programs for fitness for
, kids that you can~ get more money to make sure you get more continuity bike
walking facilities in parks and school playgrounds so we can keep the kids up off
~ the couch and from in front of the TV. Anyway thaYs part of the high level stuff -
we've got a high level plan IeYs work the plan. How are we going to work the
~ plan? Well we're not here tonight to do that but at least sort it out and work the
, darn plan.
Anderson: Just follow the plan.
, Rountree: Follow the plan. Make them work.
. De Weerd: I guess the overall premise for that question is do you wait until it
comes to you or do you go out and start aggressively seeking it and planning it
, and fhose kinds of things. In fhe past we've just waited until it happened.
~
; Rountree: What are we talking about? Are we talking about the pathway or are
~ we talking about stuff in general?
, De Weerd: Stuff in general.
Rountree: Don't talk about the pathway because we aggressively planned it.
De Weerd: You've already gone down that path huh?
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Fage 46 of 51
Stiffler: Unless there are other comments referenced the overall economic
strategy that anybody would like to bring back up or anything to clarify I would
say we would move forward.
De Weerd: For fhat? Heck no. I'm not bringing anything up are you?
Stiffler: I just would on Page 3 just to clarify where we go from here on the next
step that given part of the information derived from and everything the intent is as
indicated there that basically leadership can look at taking into that look and bring
that vision they looked at back to Council and then being able to look at how that
aligns I guess from the front part of the original alignment positioning. Also look
at calendaring the kind of schedule to make sure' to bring forth for each
department sfill related (inaudible) looking at this overall strategy going forward
and really how they look at that process. It's really coming back to give you more
of the specifics of I'll say how to work the plan and what the impacts of that plan
working it would be so Council can look at that.
Kilchenmann: Good plan.
Rountree: I think you have thumbs up on the direction to go and the next steps
staff, directors and Phil. You got our support.
Borton: That's the only thing. Did we give enough information or not?
Rountree: We've given enough direction which is fine. If we didn't that's what
we're here for. '
Borton: ThaYs a big - before tonight looking at this topic no questions would
come up -
Rountree: As you start to put this stuff together (inaudible) if we need to we
make another workshop out of it.
De Weerd: Well we need to make it - workshop topics as we start moving in that
direction. I have - I can't remember who I talked to. I think that at some point as
the directors we would like to get more information to you. I appreciated Keith's'
comment that he feels like the information is flowing and you do feel good about
that. What I would like to suggest as well as an opportunity on the monthly
workshop is maybe an hour set for department reports. It's just an informational;
not everyone will have a report that night but if there are issues that just an
update just to get information just to let you know whaYs going on in our various
departments. We kind of took that element out of our directors workshops and
Mecidian City Council Special Workshop
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Page 47 of 51
we find that we have this information void now of not really knowing what's going
on in each others departments.
Rountree: Well I think that was the intent of the workshops. (Inaudible).
De Weerd: But I think iYs more Charlie a good news piece or just a heads up
piece not something fhat we thought you needed an official report on or that we
had a problem we needed to solve. This is just an FYI these are the good things
that are going on in our departments.
Rountree: I would rather you do that on a monthly basis as things come up that
draw your staff there once a year and put together a half an hour, 45 minute or
hour long that this is what we did for a year. Do it in a timely manner. If it's 15
minutes on the workshop -- personally and I don't know about the rest of fihe
Council but I would rather see it when it happens and then this is the excitement
and this is the good stuff that we did as opposed to trying to accumulate that and
spending staff time to put together (inaudible) which drives the staff crazy.
De Weerd: Yes. I would like that opportunity Charlie. It is when a new
employee starts or someone completes their certifications for wastewater
operator you know those are fhe things that we want to bring.
Rountree: When we see them we can recognize them -
Bird: We used to this like Charlie said this is what the workshops were set up for.
Nary: I'll take the time to introduce him. That was Mike Tanner our programmer
fhat was here tonight. I didn't know you didn't know that so I apologize. I
apologize that I thought after he left most of you didn't know that. Mike's the
programmer and has been for fhe last couple of monfhs.
Item 7. Waiver of Fees for Good Sam's Club Temporary Use Permit:
Bird: Mr. President if we're done I forgot to add something to fhe agenda if you
want me to bring up something.
Rountree: Go right ahead.
Bird: We have a club called the Good Sam's Club that has a yearly garage sale
for what do you ca11 those things. At the Pioneer Credit Union on Meridian - and
this is nothing new. They went in to get a- what was it Tara?
Green; Temporary Use Permit.
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Page 48 of 51
Bird: A Temporary Use Permit. They didn't know it was going to cost and all of
this. The guy that went in there acted like a horses' butt and I told him so. I told
him it wasn't acceptable and it wouldn't happen again or he would go out in
handcuffs.
De Weerd: We won't even charge for that.
Bird: But anyway they can't move fheir areas. Now this is the club that when we
had break-ins at Seftlers and we needed people to take their cameras and stay
the nights out there they did that. This is the club that takes care of the rose
garden in Storey Park but our girls - Tara cannot waive a fee. There are four
people here that can waive a fee and I'm a member I would just assume abstain
from voting but I would ask that we consider waiving fhe fee for them this year.
The benefit of it all goes to Seeing Eye Dogs.
Nary: Mr. President Members of fhe Council whatever you choose to do on that
thaYs fine. What I was going to suggest is Ms. Kane and the Clerk's Sta .ff and
the Code Enforcement Staff are meeting this week to help address some of
these issues. Maybe at our next workshop we will have an opportunity to have a
discussion about that. We have had a lot of people have issues with it but we will
all have that discussion wifih you and with planning staff prior. You won't get -
what I'm trying to avoid from the legal side as well as the Clerk's Office with Ms.
Holman is fhe entire world coming to you for a fee waiver every week. What I
have suggested to Mr. Simison since the Clerk's Office is now part of the Mayor's
Office is that if folks have an issue fhey certainly have the ability to write to you
and explain their concerns with it and maybe at our next one we can talk about
that a little more so that we can have a more uniform response to folks because it
does - Mr. Bird I think one of the things you said earlier one of the - again not
about this particular one I don't particularly care the reason that we charge a fee
is because it costs us time. It costs us time and money. Whether iYs for a non
profit organization or for profit organizafion it is costing the city money. To
develop a particular protocol would certainly be helpful. I think it would help the
Clerk's Office it would certainly help you folks in responding to the public and
maybe thaYs something after tonight we can plan to have a discussion at your
next workshop about some recommendations and such. Since they're going to
meet this Friday and talk about these issues from the service delivery side from
the Clerk's Office we can also help formulate maybe some recommendations
back to you. Now the recommendafion to you may be that it's fine it should stay
the way it is or maybe something else but I just wanted to throw that out that
you've probably have gotten some calls or you may see some lefters come
through. It is a change and so people are certainly responsive to tha#. This
particular one was certainly more responsive fhan others and so I want to make
Meridian City Council Special Woricshop
April 29, 2008
Page 49 of 51
sure you have enough informafion both from the legal side and Ms. Holman and I
talked about it and Robert and I talked about it to bring back to you maybe in a
couple of weeks at your next workshop to talk about it.
Bird: Bill the only problem is they need to know now.
Nary: Right and fhis one doesn't have a time element. I mean this one has a
time limit.
Bird: If it wasn't for the gentlemen that came in there I would tell you if he was
going to be there to double charge him. He truly was a horses' patoot to our girls
and I assure you that what I just said I told him.
Nary: Of course we won't charge double fee since we do record this. We
wouldn't want to do that. I understand. There is a time limit because it is this
weekend so I know this one is different.
Bird: I just brought it forward people. I need to let them know.
Rountree: Any further discussion on - I guess my comment is if anytime we
consider it there ought to be a legitimate basis for it for consideration. It seems
to me the in lieu of aspect is the nick of time and services to the city ought to be
one they take into consideration. When you have that discussion on Friday and
then in this case where they have and I do recognize that they do spend a lot of
time helping us with the park and that tough time we were having.
De Weerd: And that can be part of the messaging.
Rountree: Yes and that should be the message.
Bird: (Inaudible) rose garden.
Rountree: So wifh that, this wasn't calendared on the agenda. Can we actually
take aation on fhis Bill?
Nary: Mr. President Member of the Council yes. It's a pretty minor issue. I'm
not real concerned if you want to add this. Since there is a time limit there really
, wasn't a way to add that.
Rountree: I'll take a motion.
Zaremba: How much is the fee?
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' Page 50 of 51
Nary: $133.00.
Rountree: You have to pay it.
Zaremba: I think with fhe expiration that this is an organization that does good
for us that I would move that we waive the fee on this one specifically.
Borton: Second.
~ Rountree: IYs been moved and seconded to waive fhe temporary use fee for the
annual garage sale for Good Sam's club. Does this need a roll call vote?
Nary: Voice vote is fine.
Rountree: All those in favor.
ALL AYES: MOTION CARRIED
Borton: Discussion. That was a way for this to get -
Rountree: This particular one.
Nary: And probabiy to make note for the record. Mr. Bird abstained.
Zaremba: Mr. Bird abstained yes.
Rountree: Comments questions?
Nary: Mr. President if you are at the end of your agenda - Mr. President
Members of the Council and Madam Mayor this is Mr. Bird's 10th anniversary with
' the city this past January. We just got the certificate back acknowledging 10
years with the city. I wanted to make sure to give that to you tonight.
Zaremba: Speech.
Rountree: I got one of those a long time ago. Any further business? I entertain
a motion.
Zaremba: Mr. President I move we adjourn.
Borton; Second.
Meridian Ciry Council Special Workshop
April 29, 2008
Page 51 of 51
Rountree: It's been moved and seconded to adjourn. All those in favor?
Opposed?
ALL AYES: MOTION CARRIED
MEETfNG ADJOURNED AT 8:25 P.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
APPROVED:
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TAMMY DE EERD, MAYOR DATE APPROVED
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