HomeMy WebLinkAbout2008 06-24Meridian Citv Council Meetinq June 24, 2008
A meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order af 7:00 p.m., Tuesday, June
24, 2008, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd, Charlie Rountree, Keith Bird, and David
Zaremba.
Members Absent: Joe Borton.
Others Present: Bill Nary, Jaycee Holman, Anna Canning, Tom Barry, Kyle Radek, Ron
Anderson, Bob Stowe, Steve Siddoway, Sarah Wheeler, Keith Watts and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
X David Zaremba Joe Borton
X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
De Weerd: Okay. I will go ahead and call tonight's meeting to order. For the public
record it is Tuesday, June 24th. I#'s a few minutes after 7:00 o'clock. Welcome. And
we will start tonight's meeting with roll call attendance.
Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance:
De Weerd: Thank you. Item No. 2 is our Pledge of Allegiance. If you will all, please,
rise and join us in the pledge.
(Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
Itern 3: Community Invocation by John Wheeler with LDS Church:
De Weerd: Item No. 3 is our community invocation. Tonight we will be led by Bishop
John Wheeler. He's with the Paramount LDS ward_ If you will, please, join us in the
community invocation or take this as an opportunity for a moment of reflection. Bishop.
Wheeler: Our Heavenly Father, this evening we gather together and bow our heads
before thee and give thanks unto thee for the many blessings which thou hast bestowed
upon this community. We are so grateful for the City of Meridian and for the blessings
and fihe opportunities that are before us here. So grateful for our Mayor and for our City
Council and for all who support and work with them, so that we can function as a
community and wrestle with the challenges that are before us. We are grateful for their
time and for their efforts and for their service. Father, we pray at this -- at the beginning
of this session that thou would bless us with thy Spirit, that thou would be with those
who have prepared items for discussion, that thou would bless with wisdom all who
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June 24, 2008
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participate therein and that the decisions that are made would be for fhe betterment of
this community and would be pleasing in thy site. We are so grateful for fhe men and
women in the armed services and for their sacrifices in defense of our country and pray
fhat thou would watch over and bless and sustain them and that we may know how we
can -- how we can support them as well. We love thee. We love this wonderful land
that we live in and for the freedoms that we enjoy. Would fhou bless, again, watch over
the proceedings of this Council meeting this evening and we dedicate this meeting unto
thee and do so in the name of thy son, Jesus Christ, amen.
De Weerd: Thank you, Bishop Wheeler. And I have a new City of Meridian pin to
present to you and thank you for joining us.
4. Adoption of the Agenda:
De Weerd: Okay. Item No. 4 is adoption of the agenda.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Just a few notes on fhe Consent Agenda, Item 5-E, for the record the amount
of the contract is 2,500 dollars. To the agenda we wish to add, under Department
Reports, an Item 6-B, which will be a Planning Department report on the letter to the
Kuna City Council. Item 15, the National Electric Code, has been requested to vacate
and come back to us on July 8th. So, we are not discussing that tonight. Item 16, the
proposed ordinance number is 08-0371. With those changes I move that we adopt the
agenda.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to approve the agenda as amended.
All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 5: Consent Agenda:
A. Approve Minutes of June 10, 2008 City Council Special Workshop
Meeting:
B. Sanitarv Sewer and Water Main Easement Aqreement for
Kennedv Commercial Subdivision by DBSI Meridian I-84, LLC:
C. Sanitarv Sewer Easement Apreement for Kennedv Commercial
Subdivision by DBSI Meridian I-84, LLC:
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June 24, 2008
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D. Water Main Easernent Aqreement for Kennedv Commercial
Subdivision by DBSI Meridian I-84, LLC:
~ E. Professional Services Contract with Delta James ~ Sage for
Public Art Selection:
De Weerd: Item 5 is our Consent Agenda.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Noting, again, that Item 5-E, the contract amount is 2,500 dollars, I move that
we adopt the Consent Agenda -- acaept the Consent Agenda and for the Mayor to sign
and the clerk to attest.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda. If
~ there is no discussion, Madam Clerk, will you, please, call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, absent.
De Weerd: Okay. All ayes.
MOTION CARRI'ED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 6: Department Reports:
A. Public Works Department:
1. Budqet Amendment for Lead WWTP Operator:
2. Budaet Amendment for Capital Proiects Manaqer:
3. Discussion of Five Mile Creek Restoration Proiect:
De Weerd: Item 6 under A, we have our Public Works Department. I'll turn this over to
Mr. Barry.
Barry: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Tom Barry, Public Works
Department. We have three items on the agenda this evening for your consideration.
The first is a budget amendment for the reclassificafion of the two wastewater treatment
operator positions to lead wastewater operators at the wastewater treatment plant.
These particular positions would provide us an opportunity in the wastewater treatment
plant to supervise and evaluate and schedule the duties, along with the existing duties
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June 24, 2008
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at the treafiment plant. This would increase our ability to provide better quality service
as it relates to fihe operations of the treatment plant. The reclassification of the two
operator positions into lead position is also meant to allow us to reduce the span of
confirol for the chief operators at the treatment plant, thus, allowing more guide as it
relates to the operation of the treatment plant. The posifiions that -- these are not new
positions. These are, again, just reclassifications of two existing positions. The budget
amendment request is for 4,394 dollars. This is for three and a half months of the fiscal
year '08, after which these two positions would be rolled into the base budget of the
wastewater utility on an ongoing basis. So, ther.efore, a hundred percent of the funding
for these positions come from the enterprise fund. Keep in mind that these positions
were necessitated in part due to some of the reorganization that we had accomplished
earlier in the year. So, with that I will take any questions or comments you might have.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions?
Rountree: I have none.
Bird: I have none.
Zaremba: No.
De Weerd: Okay. You do have a request in front of you. Do I have a motion?
Rountree: Madam Mayor'?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move fhat we approve the budget amendment for the lead operators in the
amount of 4,394 dollars.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to approve the budget amendment
request. Is fhere any discussion? Madam Clerk, roll call.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, absent.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd: Mr. Barry, Item No. 6-A-2.
Barry: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Mr. President, Members of the Council, our second
item before you in Public Works is another budget amendment. This is for the position
of construction project manager, which has been re-titled now contract project manager.
This is a position we brought before you a couple of times and had discussion about as
it relates to the need for the city to better align itself wifh the management of capital
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June 24, 2008
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construction projects. The position itself will plan and coordinate, direct and oversee a
wide variety of citywide capital construction projects, services, and activities. The
position would also provide construction related oversight services for all departments
within the city, insuring that projects are coordinated and completed within time
schedules and within budgets, while adhering to all local, state, and federal standards,
environmental and construction safety guidelines, as well as best management
practices. The city currently, as you know, out sources construcfiion project
management on a project-by-project basis. This practice is costly and leads to
inconsistencies in standards and oftentimes missed opportunities for the coordination of
multiple capital projects. Bringing the service in-house will insure that city wide projects
are coordinated, and uniform standards of service levels are consistently applied and
we believe will save our citizens money. The amount for the request for the fiscal year
'08 is $29,747.09. This is, again, for three months of service, after which the position
would be absorbed into the overall operational budget for the fiscal year '09 and for
years after that. A job description has been provided for you as amended from
meetings that we have had earlier in the last couple of weeks, as it relates to Council's
last direction to revise the job description and insure that various tasks and
responsibilities were clearly identified. So, that has been done. The job description has
been routed to -- and reviewed and approved by the Parks Director, Public Works staff,
and various divisions. Also the purchasing agent and other.s who are associated with
having an interest in or insight as to the posifion. So, with that I will take any questions
or comments you have. ~
De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Rountree: I have none.
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I'll just make a comment. We have seen this a couple times
and there has been occasionally some confusion. I think we finally reached -- or at
least in my opinion with Public Works and the other two departments that would ufiilize
this extensively -- agreement that this is not construction management, but, in fact, it is
contract administration -- more towards contract administration and contract
development in oversight and management of those contracts, to make sure that we are
getting what it is we specify, as opposed to what we had been thinking in terms of
construction management per se.
De Weerd: That's correct. Do I have a motion?
Rountree: Well, if there is no further comments, Madam Mayor, I move fhat we approve
the budget amendment for the capital project manager in the amount of $29,747.09.
Zaremba: Second.
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June 24, 2008
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De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Madam Clerk, will
you call roll.
Ro11-Call: Bird, nay; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, absent.
De Weerd: Okay. Well, the majority rules. That motion carries.
MOT10N CARRIED: TWO AYES. ONE NAY. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd: Okay. Item 6-A-3.
Radek: Madam Mayor, Council Members, the intent of this presentation is to secure
approval to sign an agreement with Nampa-Meridian Irrigation District for a license to do
work on fhis project and to secure approval for an agreement with the Idaho
Transportafion Department to provide funding for this project. The project is located just
west of the intersection of Locust Grove and Franklin Roads. It involves earth work and
native plantings on about 680 linear feet of Five Mile Creek. The project also serves as
a mitigation site for fihe I-84 - Garrity interchange to Meridian interchange project. I will
have a few of our partners provide a detailed description of the project. First, I'd like to
show you a list of the partners on the project. If I can get to the next slide I will. As you
can see, the list of partners is extensive. I'd like to highlight the folks that are here
tonight. First and foremost, we have the property owner poug Tamura here. Mary
McGowen from the Idaho Department of Water Resources could not be here, but she
wanted to express her support for the project, as an example of a-- of pro-active
floodpiain management. John Anderson is here from Nampa-Meridian Irrigation District.
Skip Vetten is here from the Natural Resources Conservation Service. And Kurt Wald is
here from Connecfing Idaho Partners. And I would like to have Skip Vetten come up
and provide some additional detail on the project.
De Weerd: Thank you, Kyle.
Vetten: Thanks, Kyle. Thank you, Madam Mayor and Councilmen. A little bit on the
project description here. I guess I would ask did you have time to review your handouts
that we had delivered to your office? I know Kyle had brought some over. Okay. That's
good.
De Weerd: You know, most of it's on that poster board I really like, so --
Vetten: That's right. Kurt did that for us. That's out front, is it?
De Weerd: Uh-huh. It is.
Vetten: Well, this slide and the poster board are just a more concise viewing of what
you saw in your handouts, but, basically, as Kyle said, the project there is just off of
Franklin and Locust Grove. It looked like an opportunity to have a very nice amenity, to
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June 24, 2008
Page 7 of 60 •
make some stream improvements, put the stream in a more natural appearance, and
~ maybe improve the function to more of a native or historic kind of use of the creek or
. ability for the creek to operate that way and at the same time provide for the needs that
~ the Nampa-Meridian Irrigation District has for their water delivery and that's a very
important mandate that they have. So, that's -- basically, the project will involve some
earth work to create some sinuosity in the creek and that's a fairly simple thing to do,
the way that it's designed. It's not a big project per se and creating some of that
~ sinuosity back, fairly simple to do; and, then, the re-vegetation work that will take place
will be in the uplands for grasses, herbaceous type vegetation. Here on the cross-
section you can see it a little bit better. This site right here --
De Weerd: Skip, if you can take that mike right there. Thank you.
Vetten: Can you hear this?
De Weerd: Yes.
Vetten: This is the east side right here. Of course, Doug Tamura, the landowner, owns
both sides. This is the west side. The proposed pathway that goes with the Meridian
master plan is on the east side of the areek. This would also be the access road for
Nampa-Meridian Irrigation District. You aan see the creek channel right here. A little
rendition of the vegetation would be herbaceous, hydrophilic vegetation along fhe creek
and it would transition back into some willow vegetation off of the creek and, then, in the
upland areas fhere would be some drought tolerant shrubbery type vegetation. And the
detail on that, as far as the pathway would go, is not fully decided yet, depending on
how the city would want to develop their pathway. But we would put vegetation in there
and, then, work around that after the fact when the city's ready to put in fhe pathway.
Mr. Tamura has suggested that perhaps he may choose to put in a small walking path
on the west side of the creek and that would be at his own discretion at a later date.
Anyway, quick overview of the project there. Any questions on any of that so far?
Bird: I have none, Mayor.
De Weerd: Okay. No? Thank you.
Vetten: Okay. Briefily I'll just talk a little bit about the benefits. There are several. You
can see them up there. Public safety issue as far as the floodplain and a floodway.
Avoiding steep banks. Providing separation for the path users. I think this is a very nice
example of the stewardship of the natural resources, not only for the city, but other
partners like Nampa-Meridian and certainly Mr. Tamura. Goes well with the master plan
for Meridian for the parks department. And beneficial management, urban irrigation
facility, improves the surface water quality and the habitat -- wildlife habitat opportunities
out fhere. A couple of other things that I think could be added up there are -- there is
always opportunities for public education with amenities like this and our agency and
the Conversation District promote fihat a lot. In addition to that, it can improve the
esthetics of fhe site. And the whole premise here is just to not interfere with Nampa-
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June 24, 2008
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Meridian Irrigation District's responsibilifiies of their water delivery. All right. Quickly on
the next slide, just a little bit of information here. I work for the Natural Resources
Conversation Service here in Meridian and that's U.S. Department of Agriculture and
our agency is working with Kyle and the city to design and plan this project. Our
services come at no cost. But we have a lot of time and interest and effort into it and we
want to continue that kind partnership in the fufiure. Anyway, fihe more important part is
the people with the money and that's Kurt. They are the important part.
Wald: Mayor and Council, thanks for the opportunity to bring fhis project before.
Unfortunately, it's not Kurt's money, it's the money appropriated to the state of Idaho
through the GARVEE fund initiative.
De Weerd: If you can just say your full name and who you're with.
Wald: Okay. My name is Kurt Wald and I'm representing Connecting Idaho Partners,
which is a joint venture-ship between two local consulfing firms to deliver the GARVEE
transportation program.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Wald: The -- S'kip's agency in the development of the project put together an engineer's
estimate based on the plans and specifications for the project and there was -- I think it
was just under 40,000 dollars was the engineer's estimate. We decided to put a little bit
of contingency amount in there to try to give fihe opportunity to fhe City of Meridian to
have a little contingency or cushion at the end to potentially address a few first years of
maintenance or some issues in potential bids over the engineer's estimate. So, fhis
effort's been coordinated through a state-local agreement through the GARVEE office
and ITD, reviewed by their staff and legal counsel, and we set the budget at 40,000
bucks, the engineer's estimate, plus a little bit extra, and that money is being directly
appropriated out of the GARVEE construction dollars for the Garrity interchange to the
Meridian interchange project, which, obviously, in driving here tonight you can see there
is two projects that have gone to bid, both P&E packages have been out to bid, the
contractor's been on site. We have another one -- obviously, the contractor just moved
onto the site here and is beginning to work on a big chunk of work and there is one or
fwo other additional packages that will be released here in the next few weeks to go to
bid and for construction. This mitigation is offsetting the wetlands impacts from all that
construction on the interstate between Garrity and Meridian. The mitigation is being
required by the Federal Highway Adminisfiration under an executive order that requires
no net loss to wetlands under federally funded projects. So, this mifigafiion is offsetting
all those impacts and has set the stage for all fhat construction. One interesting note is
that typically the 404 and Clean Water Act permitting for these kinds of projects does
take a little bit of time. I don't know how we did it, but we.got ahead of the eight ball
there and we actually have fhe entire project already permitted through the Clean Water
Act and IDWR and water quality certification. So, pending the approval of the state-
local agreement, the license agreement, and conservation easement execution and the
contract going to bid, there is, essentially, nothing left as far as loose ends to buckle up
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June 24, 2008
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to have the project go to construction. And with that I think I'll let Mr. Siddoway take
over. Or maybe Kyle.
Radek: I'm going to segway to Mr. Siddoway by just saying that the project is also
congruent wifh the master pathways plan.
Siddoway: Thank you. Madam Mayor --
De Weerd: Nice segway.
Siddoway: -- Mr. President. I'll concur that it is in harmony with the pathways master
plan. What you have on the slide in front you is a piece out of the -- the adopted master
plan. The line on the map is the Five Mile Creek pafhway. This is the Five Mile Creek.
It is planned in this area that that pathway will be consfiructed along the northeast side
of the creek as their cross-seations have shown. So, do concur that this is in harmony
with it. It's my understanding fhat this project does not actually build the pathway, but
the wetlands enhancement that they are doing adjacent to the future pathway location
will certainly be an amenity for that pathway when it is built. The next question for me
was what does it cost, because we are also to be asked to take over the maintenance of
this. What I have before you is what I believe to be a worst case scenario. An hour a
week for 35 weeks of the year for a total of 2,625 dollars. That includes trash pickup,
hand weeding, herbicide application and weed eating, the material to do those things,
another 850, for a total of just under 3,500 dollars as an annual cost to us. I'm told by
Skip Vetten fhat often these take less maintenance, but this is my foreman's estimate
and that's what I'm comfortable bringing forward to Council. Other issues that we have
talked about and are being incorporated into the discussions, include making sure that
fhere is a sufficient time period at the beginning for establishments before we have to
take it over for maintenance and we have some concerns about some of the upland
areas that aren't irrigated, what happens if something doesn't live, do we have to
replace those by federal statutes? I'm told that that's not the case. So, we can and
would take this over for maintenance and believe it would be an added benefit to our
pathway system.
Radek: Thank you. So, this project requires, essentially, three agreements and
documents to enable the construction. First is a license agreement with
Nampa-Meridian Irrigation District to do work in their easement. Second, a state-local
agreement, which will provide funding. And the third is a conservation easement
granted by the property owner that will insure the longevity of the project. The property
owner has agreement in wrifing to grant the conservation easement once the state-local
agreement is signed. So, we have kind of chicken and egg thing there. But, again, fhe
task for Council tonight -- the decision to Council tonight is to approve the license
agreement for this project with Nampa-Meridian Irrigation District and to approve the
state-local agreement with ITD. And wifh that we will open it up for discussion and
questions.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any quesfions?
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June 24, 2008
Page 10 of 60
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: Madam Mayor'?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: On fhe two agreements that would require the city's signature on approval,
have those agreements been run through legal?
Radek: Yes, sir, they have.
Rountree: Okay. Any comments from Mr. Nary?
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, we have reviewed them. I don't have
any comment. They are pretty standard.
Rounfree: Thank you.
De Weerd: We don't pay you by the word, do we?
Nary: Thankfully, no.
De Weerd: Thankfully. Yeah.
Rounfree: Additional questions, Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: Yes, sir.
Rountree: I know Steve mentioned fhe idea of having to maintain this and fheir
question about what happens with the uplands area if it just doesn't happen to work
quite like it's planned. I guess my concern is that a lot of these wetland re-vegetation
reclamafion projects don't quite work as well as they are planned and is there something
in the agreement that if, in fact, it fails, which is not unusual, we no longer are obliged to
maintain a failure? Or something less than what is anticipated.
Wald: I'll speak to that a little bit. I'll make two points fhere. One is that in the uplands
area -- well, let me back up. The only components of the design of the project that are
required to sustain their functioning components are the pieces that are within the
bottom component of the channel. Anything that's in the uplands is outside of that.
Skip and his design team, obviously -- and he may want to make a couple comments to
this end, but the idea is to pick the low hanging fruit and to try to establish the site in a
self-sustaining location where there is sufficient hydrology so support that and without
any disturbance in fhat channel it's virtually wetlands now, with a little bit of
modifications. We have a pretty good indication that that condition will be self-
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June 24, 2008
Page 11 of 60
sustaining and the maintenance costs over time will probably be more front-end loaded
and less on fhe back end.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Rountree: I appreciate your comments. I understand your comments. But my question
is if it doesn't work as planned, is the city still on the hook to maintain something that
didn't work as planned by fihe agreement that we are proposing to be entering into?
Wald: I believe that's the case. I believe that that agreement does put forth a
severance of liability to the ITD.
Rountree: Or to the City of Meridian.
Wald: I believe the City of Meridian assumes that liability.
Radek: Kurt, let's just say for fhe sake of argument we were tasked to just maintain
what's there now. Would fhat satisfy -- I mean that almost satisfies fhe requirements of
the mitigation, does it not?
Wald: No, not quite. Actually, the -- the law states fhat it has to be a no net loss and
you have to put additional functioning wetlands out on the ground beyond what's
already fhere.
Radek: And we are talking about .6 --
Wald: Yeah. .5.
Radek: .5 acres.
Rountree: Skip.
Vetten: I would offer -- Councilmen, if you like. The agreement -- correct me if I'm
wrong here, Kurt, but the agreement for the wetland mitigation part of this is contained
pretty much in the channel there where we are going to have the sponge action of the
water into the soil. The restoration there has a very high likelihood of success and I
agree with you, the upland areas, without irrigation, they have a high likelihood of
failure. But fhose areas are not part of the mitigation requirement that Idaho
Transportation Department has. The reason the herbaceous and woody material that's
planted in the uplands is partly for erosion control, partly because it's good planning.
Partly because it's esthetics and there is likelihood that fhose things can fail and it's not
uncommon. But that liability of replacement of that is not part of the mitigation
agreement that would be outside of that wetland zone. If that helps any. And just to
add a little bit, if there is failure in those uplands on the -- the drought tolerant shrubs
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;' June 24, 2008
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• and grasses and so forth, that could be as fhe city chooses to leave it until development
takes over there and there -- there could be a lot of disturbance on all of that re-
vegetation anyway as Mr. Tamura develops his property and certainly as the pathway
would go in, there would be disturbance there anyway. And that disturbance might be
, in some material that didn't survive. But in the interest of erosion control and good
pianning, it is in the plan.
. Wald: And I may want to just color that up a little bit in terms of the sustainability and
~ achievability of the site. Skip has a success on a site very proximal to this location, a
; virtually mirror image of this sort of project, and that site seems to be functioning quite
well and with virtually no maintenance, essenfially, on that site.
Vetten: The grass gets to tall and we have to mow it down once in awhile, because it's
to lush.
De Weerd: Did that address your concerns?
Rountree: I still hear that there is a transference of liability for fhis wetland from ITD,
who is responsible for obtaining the 404 permit for this activity. This to me is really
foreign that ITD would transfer . a mitigation site to another public entity. I fully
understand what they do with the landscape projects, but it seems to me fhat they have
the continued liability of sustaining this wetland and I don't know what the city's
involvement of this is at this point.
, Wald: I agree with you. I think that's a nuance in there. From the eyes of the Corps of
~ Engineers who issues the application and the -- ITD is still ultimately on the hook,
because it -- they can't pass that -- that liability off from the federal government to you.
The agreement, essentially, takes the -- how should I say -- the -- the dollar amount
relates to the plans and specifications and transfers the liability to bid, build, and
construct and maintain and monitor in perpetuity. If a giant flood came washing through
there and stripped everything out and the EPA come out and said, ITD, you haven't met
your mitigation requirement; ITD would still be on the hook to reset that template. If that
makes it more clear.
De Weerd: Is that stated in the agreement, though?
~ Bird: There is your agreement right there --
, Rountree: I can read it, but I believe Mr. Nary --
Nary: That wasn't what I recall, so let me look. You might carry on with more and I will
come back to -- ~
Rountree: I have no more. That's just a point I would make and I'm not sure why -- why
' the liability of maintaining mitigation that ITD needs to do in order to build the road is the
responsibility of the City of Meridian. Can you help me with that, Kyle?
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June 24, 2008
Page 13 of 60
Radek: I believe the responsibility is with ITD, but fihey have found a solution here with
the City of Meridian as a partner. I don't know if we are going to avoid any kind of
liability with this transaction. We are getting 40,000 dollars and is there a guarantee
that it's going to be successful, I don't fhink it's going to be a hundred percent
guaranteed, but I fhink it's a good project and a good risk to take.
Wa1d: I would agree with that. I would say in terms of the -- you know, the severance of
the liability between the federal code requiring ITD to do that, there is only one
mechanism to hand that off and this is not that. That would be a mitigation bank and
this is not that. The severance of liability is essentially asking Meridian to a license
agreement -- a maintenance agreement, rafher to bid the project to the final
specifications with the 40,000 bucks and taking on the maintenance and monitoring in
perpetuity, where ITD is -- you know, for some reason the site, ITD will still be on the
hook for the no net loss compensatory offset, but it's the liability of letting ITD pay the
City of Meridian and let fhe parks department take over that maintenance monitoring
and they don't need to come out and write monitoring reports, they just transfer that to
the city. Not that the city would need to write monitoring reports either, but --
De Weerd: Who writes the monitoring reports?
Wald: There wouldn't -- that was just maybe a poor example. There wouldn't be a
requirement to write monitoring reports, but --
De Weerd: So, alls we take on is the maintenance, but not the ultimate liability?
Wald: That's correct. Yeah. There is only one mechanism and in -- in law, which just
went into effect July 9fh, to physically transfer that compensatory offset law requirement
and this is not that. This is only the transference of ITD's liability to maintain and
monitor in perpetuity.
De Weerd: So, we just want to make sure that would be clear in the agreement.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, that's not what the agreement says.
This agreement says we will indemnify and hold ITD harmless from any and all claims
and our responsibility is the maintenance of this forever. To bill -- and for that the
exchange is 40,000 dollars. So, that doesn't sound like what you said.
Wald: That does not sound like what I said?
Nary: No. That doesn't sound like what you said at all. You said ITD was responsible
and could not transfer that responsibility and always would maintain it and we are just
doing maintenance. That sounds like mowing the grass. We are not mowing the grass,
we are responsible for building it, keeping it, maintaining it and holding you harmless
from it forever.
Meridian City Council
June 24, 2008
Page 14 of 60
Wald: Right. That's true. But it's not fhe severance of the liability of ITD's requirement
to provide the mitigation. ~
Nary: Right. But you are transferring it. What this agreement says is by transferring
40,000 dollars to the city, the city now takes on your responsibility.
Wald: To maintain and monitor it -- and to construct it to the plans and specifications.
Nary: And for long-term maintenance and -- I mean -- but, again, it's the indemnification
that -- if this fails, I think. as Councilmember Rountree was stating, if this fails, this initial
construct is done by ITD and for whatever reason the actual hundred year flood actually
comes and this fails, who is responsible?
Wald: ITD.
Nary: Not by this agreement.
Rountree: Not by the agreement.
Nary: This says we are.
Wald: Yeah. I think the intent of that language was to indemnify ITD from the perpetual
maintenance and monitoring and the job would be bid and constructed to the plans and
specifications.
Nary: Well, but fhat's not what it says. It says indemnify and hold ITD harmless from
any claims, demands, or acfions for damages to property or injury to persons or other
damages arising out of fhe performance of this agreement. So, when you perForm in
this agreement and you give us 40,000 dollars, we are holding you harmless from
anything that happens. If it's done incorrectly. If it fails, as Councilmember Rountree
says, that's what this agreement says, is that the city is responsible for it, if you are
going to tender it back to the city to pay for those claims. That isn't what you said. That
may be what you meant, but that isn't what this says. And maybe that's what we need
to have a little more discussion about.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I-- just a comment and that's the concern I have and I would
like to understand fhe benefit to the city. I can see cleaning this up and making it a
legitimate visual experience as a benefit to the city and I'm not opposed to being a
partner in these kinds of activities, but it seems to me it needs to be a fair partnership
and there is no action being taken by the -- on the part of the city to require any of this
to be done. It's a mitigation requirement that ITD has to do in order to move forward
with a construction project. It's not a landscaping project that necessarily beautifies the
city that we would typically take on for a long term maintenance activity. Again, it's a
mitigation requirement that they have to do. So, I'm confused about the partnership
aspect and what it is we really get and it seems to me that language of the agreement is
we get something more than what we think we are bargaining for.
Meridiam City Council
June 24, 2008
Page 15 of 60
Radek: So, would it be a recommendation to go back there and renegotiate the state-
local agreement based on your comments?
Rountree: That certainly would be my recommendation, but we have the rest of the
Councif to comment as well.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I wonder if it would -- it would require renegotiating, but I wonder if it would
help to try and go along the lines of instead of making this agreement in perpetuity or
forever or that sort of thing, to make an agreement that either has a one year life or a
five year life, renewable a year at a time or fiive years at a time or forever. But that
clearly leaves the responsibility on ITD and they are contracting wifh us to maintain it.
And they could some year contract with somebody else to maintain it.
De Weerd: I guess, Mr. Nary, is that something that you can take up with ITD's attorney
to -- to clarify some of fhis to find acceptable language? Certainly, the agreement that is
in front of you tonight is not even signed by ITD yet, so we would want to have you
perhaps work to clarify some of fihe language in the intent and, fhen, bring it back.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, and Councilmember Zaremba and
Rountree, I think -- I think we all understand what ITD's maybe intent is and so I don't
think it would be that difficult to have this discussion, because I think what you're saying
is I think what the Council could be agreeable to, is just the language doesn't reflect
fhat. And we have license agreements like with ITD -- or ACHD that are exactly like
Councilman Zaremba is talking about that really are maintenance agreements. They
are not liability agreements. And that's -- I think fhat's really fhe hang up. So, if fhe
Council wants that, we could certainly have further discussion on that point and see if
we can come to a better -- better language I guess that we are all comfortable with.
Wald: I would note that the agreement was signed by ITD. It may not be the particular
one that you have, but their disfirict engineer and -- out of district three and Steve
Hutchinson executed the agreement, so for what that's worth.
De Weerd: Okay. Well, it sounds like the agreement as it's presented to Council is --
needs to have the further clarifiication and I'm sure, then, you would need to have a new
signature, then. But if -- if appropriate, turn this over to Mr. Nary and yourself to work
those details out.
Nary: Right. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, we can certainly do that. And I
would use part of the packet and we could get to you as well for your engineering staff
is the ACHD agreement and in there the city does take on liability, but only for acts that
we do. So, if our staff, in doing maintenance, causes harm that, then, harms other folks,
Meridian City Council
June 24, 2008
Page 16 of 60
we are responsible for that. But since we didn't construct it, it wasn't our responsibility
to build it, they maintain that liability for that portion that, then, we maintain liability for
anything that we do in the maintenance and it's a perpetuation of that. So, I think that's
what the city would be most comfortable wifh.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I think if you look in the -- fhe deal, we do -- after they give us the money and give
us the specifications and fihe plans and everything, we do send it out and hire a
contractor. So, we are, actually, building it.
Nary: Well, that might be different, then.
Bird.: That's -- if you look at --
Nary: Yeah. Yeah. I saw that on here, too.
Bird: I happened to run by that, so -- and we haven't even discussed the
Nampa-Meridian one.
Nary: Right.
De Weerd: Well -- and I see that John's here tonight, so we can see -- if there is any
questions regarding that contract and certainly ask Mr. Anderson if he would like to
make comment. You already saw that you beat up the last guy. He doesn't want to get
up here.
Rountree: I don't think we could get the job.
Wald: I would make note that, unfortunately, I don't have the authority to act as an
agent for ITD, I'm simply the messenger in the store here, obviously. So, it may be
helpful and in the best interest of time to make contact befinreen Mr. Nary and the ITD
Council to recommend language changes and I can act as a facilitator in those
communications.
De Weerd: Okay. Certainly we can contact Mr. Wald or his assigns.
Wald: Yeah.
De Weerd: Okay. And fhat sounds fine. I think this is a great project and certainly one
that we need to get further clarification on. Council, did you have any specific quesfions
regarding the Nampa-Meridian license agreement? ~
Bird: Madam Mayor, I haven't read it a hundred percent, so --
Meridian City Council
June 24, 2008
Page 17 of 60
Radek: Madam Mayor, Council Members, I would recommend if we are going to go
back and reconsider the language in fhe state-local agreement, that we just wait on the
Nampa-Meridian license agreement as well. No point in having a license agreement if
we don't have the project, so --
De Weerd: Well -- and that's correct. But if -- if we have issues with it, now would be
the time to know.
Radek: Yes, ma'am.
Anderson: The agreement that our attorneys prepared --
De Weerd: If you will, please, state your name for the record.
Anderson: Oh. My name is John Anderson. I represent the Nampa-Meridian Irrigation
District.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Anderson: The agreement that the district's come before the Council with is similar to
all the rest of ours, they are pretty one-sided to protect us, just like you guys are working
for your protecfion. This project is ground breaking, earth shattering for the district to go
along with something like that and our board's very cautious on this whole project, but
they are willing to support it if fhings go properly. So, that's all I had to say.
~ De Weerd: Well, Mr. Anderson, we do know it's ground breaking for Nampa-Meridian
and we appreciate you being at the table on this and so we will keep you apprised as to
, how this is moving forward and appreciate your participation.
~~ Anderson: You bet. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Mr. Tamura, do you have any comment? We sure
' appreciate your -- your agreement and the role that you're playing in this as well. I
agree with Kyle and this is an amazing project and I believe there is just a couple of
' questions that we need to have worked out. But it will be a nice amenity and certainly it
is something that really hasn't been seen. So, we -- we -- I personally am excited about
this project and I'm sure we can get things worked out. Council, any other questions?
' Mr. Zaremba?
Zaremba: It's a similar comment. I know that there has been a lot of hard work and
partnership going on in this already for quite some time and it shows and I believe it will
be a very good and welcome project that we will eventually be happy with. I support the
idea of reworking some of the wording a little bit, but just want to -- at this point already
thank everybody for what fhey have already put into it and our goal is to make it
happen.
Meridian City Council
June 24, 2008
Page 18 of 60
De Weerd: And, Kyle, since I always give all credit to you anyway, since I thought you
did the poster board, but we certainly have appreciated the leadership that you have
shown and thank you for that.
Radek: Thank you, Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: Council, any other questions?
Rounfiree: I have none.
De Weerd: Any ofher comments. No? Well, thank you for being here with us tonight.
We appreciate all of you coming and showing your support. We look forward to seeing
this moved forward.
B. Planning Department - Letter to Kuna City Council:
De Weerd: Okay. Okay. Item 6-B under our Planning Department. I will turn this over
to Anna.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, you received a letter today, a draft of
a letter with -- for Council and the Mayor's signature to the Kuna city council and I have
an earlier draft. I may not have the draft you have, but I think I have a close enough
one that I think I can address any comments and concerns you may have. We were
hoping for Council signature on that item and discussion tonight and, then, signature
prior to the July 1 st hearing for the Kuna city council.
De Weerd: Council, any concerns regarding the letter as presented?
Rountree: Madam Mayor'?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I just have to say this. I don't have any concerns about the letter, but it
seems like every time we have correspondence fhings get more out of hand. So,
hopefully, this will have some effect other fhan that.
De Weerd: Well, Council, this is for the public hearing that is at the same time as our
City Council meeting next week. Staff does have a-- kind of a plan and assignments as
to who is going, who will be presenting what, and are in the hopes that maybe
Councilman Rountree will be able to join them.
Rountree: Oh, boy. Thank you.
De Weerd: I think we will have a quorum without you. Was that a public way of really
putting him on the spot?
Meridian City Council
June 24, 2008 ~
Page 19 of 60
Canning: Thank you, Mayor.
De Weerd: You're welcome.
Rountree: Sorry I brought the subject up.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I would be happy to be one of those signing the letter. I would only --
probably under the copy sent to, as a courtesy I would send a copy to Ada County
Commissioner Fred Tilman.
Rountree: Definitely.
De Weerd: As chair and also as the commissioner present at -- when we thought we
decided on these lines.
Zaremba: That's what I was thinking.
De Weerd: Okay. Okay. Any other comments or additions to the letter? Okay.
Robert, if we could go ahead and print it up, we can have Council sign it as -- before
they leave tonight. Okay. Okay. Nothing further on that item, Council? Okay. Okay.
Thank you, Anna. And thank Pete for putting that together.
Item 7: Items Moved from Consent Agenda:
De Weerd: Okay. There were no items moved from the Consent Agenda.
ltem 8: Continued Public Hearing from June 17, 2008: AZ 06-063 Request for
Annexation and Zoning of 38.68 acres from RUT and R-1 zones to C-G
zones for Waltman Propertv (aka Browninq Plaza) by Waltman, LLC -
505, 521, 615 and 675 Waltman Lane:
Item 9: Continued Public Hearing from June 17, 2008: PP 08-001 Request for
Preliminary Plat approval of 52 commercial / office lots and 1 common lot
on 38.21 acres in a proposed C-G zoning district for Browninq Plaza (aka
Waltman Propertv) by SLN Planning, Inc. - 505, 521, 615 and 675 W.
Waltman Lane:
De Weerd: Item No. 8 and 9 are continued public hearings from June 17th on AZ 06-
063 and PP 08-011 -- or 001.
Meridian City Council
June 24, 2008
Page 20 of 60
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, you heard this last week, so I`m not
going to go through much of a review for you. I did want to show you some new
exhibits fhat the applicant has provided, so that, one, you know what we have and he
knows what we have. This is a revised concept plan. Here were two other versions of
that fihat they sent to us. Some typical street sections. I think this is what they are
proposing, aiong with the big box. And that was it. And you have also received a letter
from Ms. Little regarding the ACHD traffic study and what was reviewed for the split
corridor study and all the information related to traffic coming in and out of the adjoining
neighborhood to the west as well. With that I would recommend that you allow those
individuals to speak and I can answer any questions you have. I haven't done anything
with regard to this, other than put the exhibits in the presentation for you tonight.
De Weerd: Well, I guess since the majority of the questions were responded to by Ms.
Little, I would love her to come up under the staff section and give us a summary in
English. You know, I looked at fhat letter and I really tried hard to -- to not fall asleep or
-- if you will just give us a reader's digest summary of your letter.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Rountree: Before Christie starts, I just wanted to thank her for the efforts she put into it
and I did understand it and it did answer the questions I asked.
De Weerd: Well, I'm glad you did.
Rountree: And I knew she could do it, just needed another week. Thank you.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor, I would add that I found it very helpful and thank you for
doing that.
Bird: And I'll say amen to fhat.
De Weerd: Okay. Everyone but me.
Little: Madam Mayor, Council Members, Christie Little representing Ada County
Highway District at 3775 North Adams Street in Garden City. And I do have to say that I
don't understand it all either and this was composed with a lot of help from our traffic
engineer, so -- so, I will just kind of summarize the key points that were raised last week
at the Council meeting. I know one of the concerns had to do with when we were
designing the split corridor and the intersection of Waltman, Main, and Meridian, what
did we assume for development of fhis particular area and it was assume through the
traffic study that was conducted by Six Mile Engineering, starting back in 2006 and
working with the city and ACHD and other project team members, that the
demographics would be similar to that of fhe west side where there is Home Depot and
WinCo and other big box stores. So, the demographics were altered with the TAV to
Meridian City Council
June 24, 2008
Page 21 of 60
match that type of commercial intensity for development. So, this was planned for in the
design of the split corridor. One of Councilmember Rountree's concerns had to do with
level of service at the intersection, specifically the capacity of the intersection, and the
numbers really are quite high as far as what that capacity is and from the traffic study it
indicates that traffic from this proposed development will be accommodated by this
design. Again, this intersection is to be constructed beginning in February of '09. So,
that information was added in fihere as well. And, then, perhaps some of the biggest
questions and question marks have to do with this connection to the stub street and
residential subdivision to the west and we talked about the firaffic engineer's estimate,
Pat Dolby that was hired by the applicant. Our traffic engineer and~ I sat down and
looked at this again and it really is difficult to quantify, but the end result was even if
there is a significant amount of traffic from the residential subdivision out to Meridian
Road and the Waltman intersection, it -- Waltman will still be well under the threshold for
the need for five lanes. So, we did examine the five lane need and potential. The traffic
study report that was conducted by Six Mile also examined that and that report indicates
that because Waltman doesn't extend straight through to Linder, it's really not feasible
to have that as a five lane roadway. And, again, perhaps something I didn't
communicate well last week was that when the corporate drive extension is connected
south to Waltman that will provide another access and another means of traffic
distribution in the area. So, hopefully, I answered all of your questions and I apologize
that it wasn't maybe in plain English, but I think I hit everything.
De Weerd: Well, no'w that you summarized it, I fhink I understood more than I fhought.
If you can also perhaps summarize when -- when is it recommended by ACHD to have
a connection to Corporate?
Little: Madam Mayor, Council Members, the ACHD requirement for the preliminary plat
states that after the site generates 8,000 vehicle firips per day, the extension to
Corporate Drive has to be constructed before anymore building permits can be issued.
De Weerd: So, how are those trips per day measured?
Little: We had part of this discussion last week, is it based on square foofiage or is it
based on ACHD trips and we didn't go into that detail, but certainly -- I mean if we were
looking at it, as soon as one building permit came in we would start tracking. If it was
for a big box store, fhat might be the full 8,000. If it was for some smaller retail building,
fhen, we would just have to start tcacking and keeping track of the estimated trips per
day. And fhat's what it would be based on would be based on the Institute of
Transportation Engineers guidelines for trip generation.
De Weerd: And you will oversee ihat, then, permit by permit?
Little: That's correct.
De Weerd: Okay. And, lastly, I know that you did talk about extraordinary impact fees
from their property line to where the intersection of the phase one is being done. Where
Meridian City Council
June 24, 2008
Page 22 of 60
exactly is fhat property line? Is that before or after the bridge? It looks like it's after the
bridge and how much of a section is that and were you going to charge extraordinary
impact fees in fhat area to help reimburse?
Little: Madam Mayor, the bridge is on the applicant's site and so they are required to
make improvements to that. Any of their frontage improvements are not extraordinary
impact eligible. What would be eligible is the off-site improvements and as soon as we
start working with the applicant and looking at their phasing plans, that's when we would
start looking at some cost estimates for construction of Waltman and Corporate and
start assessing that extraordinary impact fee on development in this -- not only
' subdivision, but this general area.
; De Weerd: Okay. So, you can charge the extraordinary impact fees for the extension
~ to Corporate, too?
Little: Madam Mayor, that's correct. And what we would do, we would set up an impact
fee boundary. One of the most successful one we had in some regards is at Magic
~ View where we just charged an extraordinary fee based on trips in that particular case
to get that roadway and signal constructed out to Eagle Road. So, this would be similar.
, We would just establish a geographic area and, then, assign an additional fee on top of
the regular impact fee.
~ De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions?
\ Bird: I have none.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: The original concept that was seen and heard by your commission would
bring traffic probably from here and also from there in a pattern that would connect
directly to Corporate eventually. Would you venture a guess as to how your
commission would perceive the alternate, which would make Waltman more the -- it
would make Waltman the more obvious road to use for people and actually make
Corporate a side street. Can you venture an opinion on -- while I like that alternate as
far as only this property is concerned, how does that work in the neighborhood?
Little: Sure. Madam Mayor, Councilmember Zaremba, Council Members --
Zaremba: What we are viewing now is what the commission saw; right? They have
seen nothing besides this?
Little: That's correct. And if the Council were to approve the revised layout, I don't
believe it would need to go back to the ACHD commission. All of the requirements of
the streets are still being met. You know, traffic coming from that subdivision -- folks
Meridian City Council
June 24, 2008
Page 23 of 60
may be traveling to get to downtown via Meridian and Main and so those folks going
into downtown are going to use the Corporate connection and avoid the
Waltman-Meridian connection. Those people trying to get to the freeway or other areas
south of the freeway will also use that connection. So, I do believe regardless of where
that Corporate Drive intersection is, we are still going to see it functioning as it needs to
function based on direcfion of travel. So, if the Council were to approve either site plan
tonight it would still meet the requirements of the ACHD commission approval.
Zaremba: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Anything else from Council at this point?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay.
Little: Madam Mayor, I also just wanted
included this evening, the applicant did run
our requirements from fhe staff report.
to add that the street secfions that were
those by our staff last week and fihey meet
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Okay. Would the applicant like to comment?
Nickel: Good evening, again, Madam Mayor and Council. Shawn Nickel. 6223 North
Discovery Way, Suite 200, in Boise.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Nickel: Here tonight representing Browning Plaza Subdivision. ACHD did, obviously, a
great job at explaining basically what you wanted them to go back and research and I
hope that did -- did answer your question. I also have our engineer Ross Erickson here
who worked with Gary Inselman at ACHD and came up with those street sections, if
staff could -- those street sections right there, both of Corporate Drive and Waltman
Lane within that existing easement right of way that's there right now and what those will
both look like and Ross can come up here and give you the details, if that's necessary,
exacfly how those will -- or especially Waltman, how that will funcfion, both now and in
fhe future. We also provided a better detail of that -- that second conceptual plan that
we presented at the last meeting right there and, again, when we discussed this
connection to Corporate with ACHD staff, they also indicated to us that that wasn't
necessarily their insistence on having fhat connect directly onto Corporate. That this
alternate would work. Again, we understand this -- this aoncept right here would have
to go back in front of ACHD as part of a preliminary plat for their -- for their review and
we are willing to do that. What we are asking for tonight or in this -- with this application
is fhis be the second -- the second concept plan become part of the development
agreement fhat does show the big box concept further to the southwest of the property
and a hotel on fhe southeast portion, more in the plaza. In fact, they seemed to like fihat
and we can discuss that. We canvassed the neighbor, had another neighborhood
Meridian City Council
June 24, 2008
Page 24 of 60
meeting last night and no one showed up from the -- the western neighborhood. We did
provide fhis concept plan in fihe letter this time, so they saw exactly what we were
proposing, hoping for a litfle more input from them. There doesn't seem to be any
concern from fhat western boundary out there. So, the conditions of approval that we --
or that I proposed last week that I believe helps to protect residents, even though they
don't seem to care right now, if someone does move in there that does, we have got
conditions in place that we feel will meet the -- any concerns with noise, with lighting,
wifh trash compactors, whatever. We did go around and do an inventory of four other
shopping centers. I do have those right here if you'd like to look at them.
Canning: Mr. Nickel, are fhose -- is fhis what you're handing Council?
Nickel: Yes. I did -- very lately, but I did get staff copies of these, so she could put
them on the screen and what this does show is some of the newer developments in the
area. This would be a Target at Chinden and Eagle and even though we know it's not in
the City of Meridian, it does point out some sefibacks and compatibility with the -- in this
case this was Hobble Creek, which was an existing subdivision when the Target went
in. It does show how fhis Target, for example, kind of sits in that corner.
De Weerd: I guess, Shawn, too, on the other one, isn't that the loading area, so -- and it
seems like on this --
Nickel: Well, actually, they --
De Weerd: Right there.
Nickel: Yeah.
De Weerd: So, I guess on this it seems like your loading dock is on the neighborhood
side, so if you could throw that -- not throw it, but it would be better on the site that goes
towards the freeway, if that's --
Nickel: And, again, keep in mind that as part of the conditions that we are proposing, if
this building -- and in this case it's well over a hundred thousand square feet, if it is
within a hundred feet of that western boundary, we would come back in for a conditional
use permit and have staff be able to look at that, hold a Public Hearing at that fime and
look at those details a little more precisely.
De Weerd: Well -- but would like expectations from them on --
Nickel: I understand. And if you could go to another --
De Weerd: Because it seemed like even on the Lowe's, that's one of the fhings that
Council spent a lot of time and attention to is making sure that back side wasn't -- wasn't
where deliveries and dumpsters, that kind of thing --
Meridian Ciry Council
June 24, 2008
Page 25 of 60
Nickel: In fhis case I believe this is their loading area right here, backing up right in this
area. Right here.
Canning: Madam Mayor, you're thinking of the project to west of here. Council didn't
have an opportunity to -- we had limited ability to influence the Lowe's property.
De Weerd: Because it was already permitted.
Nickel: I guess the reason for showing these examples is that we can design these
developments -- and specifically the developer that is looking at this property has been
in business for over 50 years and knows how to build these type of shopping centers
and so --
De Weerd: So did Lowe's, but they --
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Zaremba: On the same subject that -- the discussions that we had when the other
Lowe's -- the one at Ustick and Eagle went in, that loading dock ended up on the south
end of the building facing Ustick, not the residences. In addition to that, I believe there
was some treatment along the back of the building and also on the other side of the
street -- the buildings -- I can't think of it now. It's TJ Maxx, but another store like that
that's there and the Joe's and other things, have some treatment. They are not just
plain on the back, they are viewable from the residences that are back there and I think
those are elements that would want to be discussed and involved, but -- if you were to
put a big box in that location. And as Director Canning pointed out, the buildings to the
west of the one that we are looking at right now, we also had quite a bit of discussion
about what would face the residences and would be the kind of things we would be
looking at.
Nickel: And those are both very valid concerns and I think we can definitely address
those in conditions and make sure that everyone is --
De Weerd: Well, we learn lessons along the way and my office gets all the phone calls,
so a little bit sensitive.
Nickel: I don't -- don't doubt fhat.
Zaremba: You can call forward to his number, though.
De Weerd: We will learn how.
Nickel: So, Madam Mayor and Council, that's all I have. If you'd like to get the engineer
-- my engineer up to discuss fhose street sections, this would be the time to do that and,
Meridian City Council
June 24, 2008
Page 26 of 60
then, my client would also like to get up and speak very briefly and thank you for your
time again.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Erickson: Madam Mayor, Members of Council, I'm Ross Erickson at 1854 East Lanark
Street here in Meridian. I'm here tonight representing the developer. I'm a civil
engineer. And based on your direction last week we went back and redrew some
typical sections for the project. The top two sections that you see on the exhibit are
standard ACHD road sections. The top one is for Corporate Drive. It's a 40 foot
commercial collector with 54 feet of right of way. Along with that, 20 foot street buffers
will be constructed along the east side of the road. The next section down is the
Waltman Lane roadway typical section that fronts the site. Because we have got more
right of way in our property to work with along the frontage, we can build the entire 46
foot collector in the 64 feet of right of way that's required to .do it. So, at that location
that's a section that would be built. The section that's kind of out of the ordinary is the
section that's from our east property line to the new intersection at the split corridor. So,
last week I went in and met with Gary Inselman and we kind of thought about what's the
best way to do it. There really isn't a need for a left turn lane on this section as it sits,
even with the development of the Waltman property, because there is no trip generators
to the south or to the norfh that will be using fhe road. So, what we came up with is a
27 foot roadway section that ultimately would be built to a 46 foot collector and match
the section above, fhat would utilize fhe existing prescriptive right of way such that the
south edge of pavement of this section along the existing residents, would be one foot
north of the existing edge of pavement. Does that make sense? So, last week there
was some concerns with the neighbors, what are we going to do with their wells, what
are we going to do with their irrigation facilities, our trees. What I just said means that
we won't be impacting those, so -- then, in the fiuture when those properties sell to a
developer, that developer will be required to come back in and construct the balance of
this 46 foot roadway section. We thought that was probably the best way to do it to
minimize impacts to the adjacent landowners and, then, also still provide the -- you
know, a little heftier roadway section that was improved with sidewalk on the north side
to access our development. So, with that I guess I'll stand for any questions that you
may have on the -- on the roadway sections.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions? Mr. Rountree?
Rountree: Madam Mayor, my eyesight's not quite what it used to be, but give me some
dimensions on the -- on fhe half secfion. Lane widths and are there or are there not
sidewalks and --
Erickson: Madam Mayor, Councilmember Rountree, the -- that typical section is 27 feet
measured from the back of curb that will be constructed on the north line -- or the north
boundary of the roadway section to the edge of pavement on the south line of the
roadway secfion. Along the north boundary of that curb there will be a seven foot
sidewalk constructed and, basically, what that provides is a method for us to
Meridian City Council
June 24, 2008
Page 27 of 60
accommodate our drainage on that road, because we can slope all but, you know,
maybe two feet or so to the north and design and construct drainage facilities to
accommodate what we are doing. There is already -- right now the width of Waltman
Lane varies 22 to 24 feet of pavement, you know, kind of a crown, kind of not, but half of
it already drains to the south, so in a sense we are actually going to be decreasing the
amount of the drainage that goes to the south. So, there is not really a need to do
drainage improvements on that side of the roadway either until fhe roadway is widened.
With that 27 feet it allows for two travel lanes, with a little bit of extra.
Rountree: And whaYs the -- what's the easement?
Erickson: The easement. There is 25 feet of right of way on the north.
Rountree: From center line?
Erickson: I'm sorry?
Rountree: From center line?
Erickson: Yeah. From center line there is 25 feet of right of way north. So, we can't --
we can't center the 64 foot right of way -- not get right of way from both sides. It would
be to fhe south, when the developer come in it will be addressed at that time.
Canning: Madam Mayor, President Rountree, iYs not any clearer, but it is bigger.
Rountree: Just as muddy.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions from Council?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Erickson: Thank you.
De Weerd: Saved the best for last.
Wiener: I will try. Robert Wiener, 2730 South Mayflower, Boise. 83709. First of all, I'd
like to thank you all for taking the time with the project and allowing us to come back.
We understand we have got a unique property. We understand we have a unique
location. We have unique access issues. We don't have drive-by traffic to our north.
We have to have visibility from the south. We have to have visibility from Meridian
Road. This is going to be a destination oriented project. We have demonstrated our
willingness to work with ACHD. We have offered to participate in road construction,
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June 24, 2008
Page 28 of 60
giving up part of our property. Ruddy Lane, connecting that so that it will help traffic
flow. We want to build an attractive center. That's what we are after. We need
flexibility in regards to specific designs. We are trying to show some different concepts
here of what it can look like, how it will all connect. Obviously, as we, Trammell Crow
company, hopefully, gains some tenants, they will have some more definitive site plans,
but it looks like what fihey have shown now is pretty close to where they are going to be.
Putting the box in the southwest corner is a very important part of this -- a very
important part of this project. If we designed the center and we don't have our largest
draw at the furthest point away, how will we ever bring people to that end of the
property? So, if we stopped them here, what would bring tenants to want to go over
here? Our fear, then, would be a vacant center that wouldn't work, that wouldn't have
good firaffic flow. What our design is here is bring fihem in, let them pass the smaller
stores, fhey shop here, they leave, fihey see everything else, they stop here, they shop,
they stop here, they shop. If we stop them here and no one ever shops here, all we are
going to have is vacancy problems and problems with the center ever having good
traffic flow. So, this is thought out as far as how do you make it flow through and how
do you make people come to where you want them to be and, then, filow out and shop
throughout, so that you have a successful center. Poorly designed struggles. Poorly
designed doesn't create the tax base that we all want. It doesn't create the ability for
people to be successful in their businesses. The Trammell Crow Company has been
around since 1948. I give them pretty good credit for following fihrough with what they
have asked of us so far. They have been more than helpful and I think that fhey design
a nice shopping center. So, with that I would just ask that you all consider this and they
do understand the neighbors' concerns to fhe west. They are going to be willing to work
with Council and with the city to plan how to limit the amount of noise back there, but
the one thing that I will ask you all to, please, think about -- I-84 runs right here. These
neighbors have been listening to huge amounts of noise. When I'm out there irrigating,
if my phone rings, I can't talk on the phone out there. A building blocking noise coming
down the interstate can't be that much worse than interstate noise and the center seems
to me that these guys are used to a lot of noise and this can't do anything but help by
having this block and some sound barrier of some sort. There is not that much traffic
that goes behind that store, whether it's for getting to or from unloading -- I'm not exactly
sure how it will end up loading, but my opinion is that in the long run they have got a
wall versus open site of interstate, shot noise, whatever you want to call it. So, that's
just my thoughts after driving around and looking at other centers, is that maybe it's not
a bad thing. So, any questions for me?
De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Rountree: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Wiener: I rambled long enough.
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June 24, 2008
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De Weerd: Okay. I had a couple of people that have signed up and if you will lirnit your
testimony to the information fhat it was continued for tonight. This -- I have Donna
Aldridge signed up for and against. And Kathy Floyd signed up against.
Aldridge: My name is Donna Aldridge. I live at 355 Waltman Lane. The reason I didn't
go to that meeting last night, I'm under doctor care. My blood pressure is really high
and she had to put me some special medication and I didn't want to go get myself any
upset more than I am and have a stroke. But, anyway, the traffic flow, they are going to
come down Waltman Lane. I mean people are just waiting for that road to be opened
again, like it was 20 years ago at that bridge, and there is no way you can keep those
people from coming down there. And it is a peaceful lane. I know he's not -- he comes
there once in awhile in his land, you know, and everything and it is peaceful down there.
It's a dead end road and we have people walk through with their kids and their pets and
stuff, but I took a little survey on my own and there is probably about a dozen that lives
down there and maybe there is 25 trips a day, you know, for people that goes up and
down and it is a headache to get out of there. I mean when you go up to that corner,
you pray that you make it through without getting killed. So, when I get down there to
go to town I always make sure I get all of my business done.. I'm not trying to be mean
about this project. I mean I can see where they are coming from. I know they are
wanfing to do this project, but they are not really doing it right. I mean they need some
better way fhan just coming out on Waltman Lane for all that traffic, because it is going
to be a total chaotic mess, because people are going to be coming down that lane and I
won't be able to get out of my driveway, like I said 20 years ago. There is no way on
God's green earth this is going to go through unless they do something better than what
they have got planned. It is going to be a headache for the police department and
everyfhing, because, like I said, they had that one wagon down there, they had
policemen, and it's not going to be any better when this project comes through, unless
they do something better to get these people -- and it's not going to be good for them,
for us, o:r anybody fhat's in that development, unless they can do something better to
get fhis traffic flow better than what they have got planned.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Kathy.
Floyd: Hi. My name is Kathy. I live at 520 Waltman Lane. I don't have too much -- I
mean I have already commented on this a lot and the only things I have to say are the
example fhat they~showed -- the developer showed as what this could be were on major
crossroads, Eagle, Chinden, Overland, Meridian and we are talking about a dead end
lane here, so I don't fhink their comparison is very -- apples to oranges. Well, apples to
trucks. It's not even close. So, I think the major problem is when you open up the
subdivision, if you're going .to now have five lanes and, then, it goes down to finro, you're
-- fhat's going to cause problems. You have to have fhe roads there and the
infrastructure set before you allow any building or you're going to really end up with a
big, big mess. That's all I have.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Is there any further testimony? Yes, sir.
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June 24, 2008
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Lee: Curtis Lee. 365 Waltman Lane. Comment was made earlier about the one road
that's going to be connecting -- what's it going to be called? The one they are going to
bring through? ,
Bird: Corporate.
De Weerd: Corporate.
Lee: People are not going to use Corporate, it's just going to be an access road,
basically, because they are going to Waltman Lane, especially during peak hours, they
are going to go to the corner closest to the freeway. During peak hours people are
going to Boise or Nampa, they want the interstate. I do not know where they -- how
they figured -- really figured their numbers. They said across the west side there they
looked at their traffic. Well, this is 38 acres, with more offices than they are going to
have over there and stores, plus I don't think they have taken into account the west side
of Waltman Lane, that development that they are going to be developing. So, that's,
what, about 80 acres of development and I don't think with their survey that they did
fhey have taken any of that into consideration, that ofher development part. For
Browning Plaza, yeah, there would be -- that would be enough for them, but not for the
corner up there, the rest of that land. So, they needed Waltman all the way through to
make it four lanes, because people are not going to use Corporate, they are going to
use Waltman to get to the interstate to go to work. And that's it. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Any further testimony? Yes, sir.
Lorcher: Joe Lorcher. 740 Waltman Lane.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Lorcher: I'm the landowner of this property right up here that Corporate Drive is
supposed to go fihrough and I still have not been contacted at all by Ada County
Highway District. The only person I have talked to about the right of way for that
property is the developer and I just think it's -- I just want to make a statement on the
record fhat Ada County Highway District has not contacted me at all or -- or we have
talked about that property, selling for the road, and I agree with -- with this new
proposai, the cars are just going to zoom right down here, go right down to Waltman
Lane and the new intersection to get to fihe freeway. Corporate Drive won't be
completely taken out of the picture with the new way to -- they took away that
intersection. Thanks.
De Weerd: Thank you. Yes, sir.
Haddock: Ed Haddock. 480 Waltman Lane. And I had a question about the -- the
intersection up there that they are going to construct. What it's -- which one of those is
actually going to be Waltman Lane? I wasn't quite sure how fhat was going to look.
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June 24, 2008
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Zaremba: On that drawing Waltman Lane goes up this way.
Haddock: So, that's Waltman Lane going straight up?
Zaremba: And this one goes that way. Yeafi. This one is turned sideways.
Haddock: Okay. So, fhe one that goes up is the one that actually goes to Waltman
Lane. Okay. Where we come in presently from Waltman Lane, is that going to be all
blocked off? There isn't going to be any access where we normally come in at the
present?
Rountree: No.
Haddock: Okay. Well, that was my concern exactly what that's going to look like.
Okay. Thank you for -- my main concern has been access to the property the whole
time and, you know, if you can solve the problem, so that everyone can live with it, I will
will be happy. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I guess on that point, it's a fully signalized intersection at
Waltman Lane, so --
De Weerd: Yeah. That's been an intersection that's needed improvement for years.
And years. Since you guys have lived there, you must realize that. Sir in the back.
Swenson: Michael Swenson. 815 Waltman Lane. I won't go through the traffic woes,
because you have heard them 650 million times. I'll give you a couple of maybe
possible suggestions that, one, where Ruddy connects to Waltman Lane we put a stop
sign. You know, fhat might help the traffic flow to be so continuous that it's going to
wipe out any chance of us actually getting on the road. And maybe have like a 25 mile
an hour speed limit on that road, because it's going to be a short little piece of road
anyway and I don't think you're going to want people going very fast there. That's about
all I have to say. Thanks.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
R.Haddock: I'm Rob Haddock. 650 Waltman Lane. I was out of town last week, so I
missed that one, but I have been to several others. My biggest concern with the new
plan -- if we could get it back up, the one we were just on. Yes. Thank you. This is our
residence right here. I just started shaking. We are right here. 520 Waltman Lane is
right fhere. 480 Waltman Lane is right there. Currently our driveways just come out
there. It's a dead end lane. With this new road is this connection going to be made? Is
fhat going to be blocked off? I think 480 Waltman's driveway is right there at the corner.
Thaf's going to be an ugly one to get in and out of. 520 is right there. Mine's about right
here. 650. And so that's -- that's my concern. I don't know -- I don't know what this --
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June 24, 2008
Page 32 of 60
this doesn't really show an intersection at the present time, so I just don't -- I can't
visualize that. My other concern is every fime we come iYs a different plan. I voiced a
concern that Joe Borton is involved in this whole thing and, you know, have been to a
lot of these meetings and I haven't seen the type of patience I have seen with fhis
project given to others. The last meeting I was at fhey talked about no retail period
along this boundary, now we are talking big box retail. So, you know, from my viewpoint
I think it should go back to Planning and Zoning and they should get another shot at it,
because if's changed so drastically -- I fihink this is the third time now since it's been to
City Council. And traffic. Traffic. Traffic. And I agree with Kathy that this is not a major
intersection, if's a dead end street and you can improve the intersection, but you're not
-- you know, it doesn't make -- make it a major thoroughfare. My other concern is the
road. It sounds like they don't have the right of way to the east and so they are planning
to have nice big intersection, shrink it down to a little tiny alley and, then, widen it back
up when a project comes. It seems silly to me. Thanks for your time.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Any further testimony?
N.Swenson: Nancy Swenson. 815 Waltman Lane. I guess I partly wanted to get a little
closer look at this stuff, because from where I was sitting I wasn't certain how the end of
fhe lane was going to get through. And a closer look isn't really giving me a whole lot to
go on. How are the people, of which I'm one, down here at the very end, going to be
able to connect into all this mess? Is there going to be a yield sign here for the people
coming out of there? Is there going to be a stop sign to let the few of us -- and there is
just a few of us -- keep from being trampled by what I know is going to be rush hour
mess, because right now the only way I get off of the current intersection of Waltman,.
Meridian, Main is when the light stops and if people know how to read the sign that says
do not block intersection, then, I can get out. Otherwise, it is very, very difficult. It's a lot
of traffic going through that intersection that we currently have. When you pull -- and I
know that they will be coming out of the subdivision up here. They are not going to
want to go up any possible Corporate. They are not going to want to go up Linder and
down Franklin, like they are doing. I wouldn't either if I were living down here. I would
be coming zooming out there. Another concern that ~I have is their numbers. Eight
thousand vehicle trips. She just said that one big box store might contain that number
of trips. Does that take into any consideration the number that might be coming out of
any possible development to the east? Does that mean fhat if we bring in one big box
store and these guys cannot develop fhe properties that have also got signs on it
wanting to be developed -- I realize fihat ACHD said that the new intersection should be
able to handle adequately the flow, but, then, she kept bringing up again the 8,000
vehicle trips before Corporate had to be expanded. So, I am a liftle concerned and a
little confused.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Any further testimony? Okay. Would the applicant like
to wrap things up?
Nickel: Thank you, again, Madam Mayor and Council. For fhe record, Shawn Nickel.
Just to remind every body, the intersection of Waltman and Meridian Road will be fully
Meridian Ciry Council
June 24, 2008
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constructed before we can pull any building permits on -- on our site. So, that conflict
that exists -- exists now is not going to be there when we pull our building permits and I
fhink fhat's important to understand, because as it sits today, it's a very bad intersection
and we all understand that. The example fhat I showed you earlier of the existing
shopping centers were just to demonstrate the transition from the shopping centers to
existing residential. It wasn't to demonstrate traffic patterns or anything else. I do
realize fhat those centers were on major corridors. That was just to demonstrate how
we would be compatible with the western boundary and how that all transitions. So, I
wanted to point that out. We do not -- well, I guess the -- at the last meeting the Council
sent us back to provide more detail on this conceptual plan. I just need to point out that
it is conceptual in nature. We will have to go back in front of ACHD and modify our --
both the preliminary plat we have in front of you now, because, as you know, that plat
foilows the first origina9 concept plan. So, fihese issues of Corporate connection and
how we are going to bring Waltman Lane in and transition it into our new Waltman will
all be taken care of at that time. We will have another neighborhood meeting, we will
work with the neighbors like we have before on the first plan and make sure everyone
understands where the stop signs are, where their accesses are going to be, buffering
and all that, will be handled if we decide to go with this concept plan. So, right now we
do not know exactly where Corporate will line up, other than in talking to ACHD, their
indication was that this does not -- that this concept is okay, but, again, they are going
to look at it again and make that determination in more detail, which will, obviously,
come back to the city for review. And, then, regarding the ofher properties that will no
doubt develop some day to the east of this site, I believe that's where the extraordinary
impact fee district would come into play to speed along these improvements if there is
more development that's going to occur to the east of this property. We understand
what is being presented now is this center and the specific conditions that are being
placed on this center regarding when Corporate gets built and some of those other off-
site improvements. So, with that I will stand for any questions.
De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: If Shawn or possibly his engineer -- and I know this is design detail and it's
something that we understand necessarily, but maybe the public doesn't -- in terms of
local access that would take access off of Waltman and how they are going to be
accommodated and how they have to be accommodated, since it is a public road.
Nickel: Right. If -- staff, can you go back to the original site plan? Yeah. In the case of
the site plan that we have detailed, because it does match our preliminary plat, those
issues were -- were looked at and provisions were made for accesses into those
existing dwellings or those existing houses, transition of Waltman in this area down to
where Corporate would come in where that intersection would be, those are all details
Meridian City Council
June 24, 2008
Page 34 of 60
that you will see if Chat other concept plan goes into play. Does that answer your
question, Council Member?
Rountree: It answers mine, yeah. Thank you.
De Weerd: Shawn, how -- on either of those plans how do you accommodate the
traffic? Are you going to do a roundabout there or is that going to be a light? I mean
how do you get from Waltman onto Ruddy or Corporate and --
Nickel: The intersection right there?
De Weerd: Uh-huh. Or even the ofher one, for that matter.
Nickel: I would imagine this would be a stop sign here and -- we just didn't get into that
detail with -- wifih ACHD on it. They were going to have a-- have stop signs, four-way
stop, or it was going to be two way. I guess -- you know, I guess those are details I--
just weren't worked out. But, obviously, if this was a-- if this was a two way stop, that
would send more traffic onto Corporate when it was built. I mean those things are --
those could affect traffic.
De Weerd: Council, any other questions?
Bird: I have none. Mr. Zaremba? No? Okay. Thank you.
Nickei: Thank you.
De Weerd: Council, anymore information needed from staff? Or applicant?
Canning: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I have no idea how Council's voting
tonight, but in the event you do want to consider the alternative concept plan -- I think at
the last hearing I made fhe statement that it -- I would consider it consistent with the
approved preliminary plat. I think the neighbors have brought up a lot of concerns with
regard to -- to fhe driveway locations and at that last hearing I did state if it changes -- if
it affects those adjoining property owners, then, it would need to be a new preliminary
plat before -- before you all and in listening to the testimony tonight I would be inclined
to think that we should have a new preliminary plat to give them ample opportunity to
discuss that before ACHD and before the Commission and Council. But I would, of
course, look for Council's guidance on such things. It's just --
De Weerd: Well -- and that's consistent with if a road grid changes at all and it would
have some -- some significant changes to it. I still don't understand why traffic circles
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June 24, 2008
Page 35 of 60
aren't used more often than stop signs. I hate stop signs. So, you're asking Council if
they choose to approve this, fhat they also choose one of the conceptual plans?
C'anning: Madam Mayor, Members of the -- Madam Mayor, Council Members, not
necessarily, but just make it clear that the alternative concept plan would required a new
plat.
De Weerd: Okay. Okay. Council, what would you like to do?
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I would offer a motion to close the public hearings on Items 8
and 9.
Bird: I would second it.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to close fhe public hearings on Items 8
and 9. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried. .
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd: Okay. Any discussion?
Rountree: I would echo what Anna just said in terms how we are going to go this
evening, but it seems to me that if -- if we go with denial, then, that's fairly straight
forward. If we tend towards approval, I just made a laundry list of about 12 or 13 things
fhat I have heard that -- keep hearing again that are in fhe form of mitigation or whatnot
to address some of the issues that we and fhe citizens have with fhis particular
application. I would like to see that list and more that is excised out of all of the
testimony fhat we have received and make sure that all of that stuff is included in a
motion that would be towards approval of this annexation. So, just a point of
discussion, I don't know about how anybody else feels about moving forward with this or
denying it, but if we move forward with it, I think in my opinion it's not tonight, it's after
we get this list of conditions that need to be in the DA or whatnot that follows with
annexafion. May need to be rounded up and put in a form that everybody understands
what's going to be done.
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Nary, then, if Council chooses to move forward, would a
development agreement -- usually thaYs signed before annexation is -- moves forward.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, that's correct. That's certainly an option
that we have used a number of times.
De Weerd: So, to meet the objective, if the other Council Members agree with Mr.
Rountree, what would the process be?
Nary: Well, we can articulate fhese for the development agreement. I guess the issue
is going to be is -- because the development agreement is, essentially, a contract and
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June 24, 2008
Page 36 of 60
we've had a number -- a lot of testimony now we have closed testimony before we
identified those particular items, I don't have any idea if the developer is willing to meet
some of fhose fihings. So, I don't want to go through the process of creating a DA and
they are not really interested in being annexed at this time with those conditions.
Maybe there is an alternat~ive they would propose, whether its, again, return to P&Z with
these direcfions to be evaluated -- I think Mrs. Canning can talk a little bit about, again,
some reevaluation of some of the changes that have been made, thaf's certainly a
different option. I don't want to run into a situation that we have seen occasionally
where we have created a development agreement and at that point the other party is no
longer interested in being annexed under those condifiions.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Nary.
Canning: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Canning: I believe what President Rountree was asking for is we could do a revised
staff report to include all the testimony thus far to incorporate -- we have to do it at some
point for the findings, so it would just be a revised staff report that would detail out any
condifions that Council wanted to add to the development agreement and/or the
preliminary plat.
De Weerd: I guess if that were the case, it -- we would need to reopen the Public
Hearing so that that revised staff report could be entered in as part of the record.
Canning: Yes, ma'am.
De Weerd: Okay.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Make it clear for me -- I don't believe we have ever had a DA without first passing
or denying the application. You know, you got to move forward with the application, I
think, don't we? I have never -- to my knowledge don't ever remember doing a DA
without enacting upon the application of annexation --
De Weerd: And that's correct, Mr. Bird.
Bird: -- without it, so --
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I guess to add confusion to what I was trying to clarify, there
is a lot -- and I'm not -- I'm not going to ground that hasn't either been suggested by or
agreed to, from what I have heard, from fhe developer. But just to get that all in one
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June 24, 2008
Page 37 of 60
spot, so I know when a motion is made to approve or deny this annexation, that all of
that stuff is considered and included in the motion and -- I mean there was a
recommendation at some point in time last week by the developer that we not connect
Ruddy Lane and -- is that something we want to include or not if we move forward. But
because we -- typically we say and all the comments of, et cetera, et cetera, so --
De Weerd: That drives the staff crazy, by the way.
Nary: Madam Mayor. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, maybe I-- if I
understand both from what Mrs. Canning is stating and what Council President
Rountree is stafiing, I mean maybe what we need is to reopen the Public Hearing, for
you to list the items that you believe are the outstanding issues that maybe need
clarification in a revised staff report, that can be incorporated into a development
agreement, continue that for one week or two weeks or whatever Mrs. Canning needs
to put into that report, so that what I think I-- if I understand what you're asking is when
you make a motion on this project, the documents in front of you that you are
comfortable wifih going forward is going to become part of this development agreement
and not that it's based on the testimony in pieces and parts and which makes it difficult
for staff to identify specifically what you're -- or you or the rest of the Council's specific
concerns are. So, we are really wanting, essentially, a revised staff report and, then, a
motion for -- I guess approval based upon that and if there is any issues that are
outstanding -- obviously, the developer certainly would have an additional opportunity to
correct that with fhe staff. But what you get in front of you in one or two weeks --
probably two, is fhat ~all of the revisions we have listened to in the last three public
hearings on this project.
De Weerd: Well, I guess -- usually, if there is specifics you make~ those specifics in your
motion if -- if approved those are specifics that are specified and certainly if it's
approved with those specifics or if it's denied, the developer always has an opportunity
to appeal, so -- and state the basis of what that appeal would be about. Are we asking
for an extra step that we usually haven't?
Nary: Well, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, appeal would be a little more
problematic in this case, just because it is an annexation request and not just a
preliminary plat or a CUP. It is an extra step, but this is a fairly complicated project. We
have had three public hearings here, lots of varied testimony, lots of changes or
revisions to the proposed plan, where the location of the road -- public, private, where is
the center, where is it not, where is the term, where is the -- I mean lots of information
that I guess from what I'm hearing is wanting some clarity in front of the Council to, then,
move forward on. And, yes, that is an additional step, maybe fihis has involved enough
project to warrant that.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay.
Rountree: Madam Mayor -- and the only reason I made that comment is this is a unique
application. Typically, they aren't this complicated as it relates to firansportation issues
Meridian Ciry Council
June 24, 2008
Page 38 of 60
and whether or not it comes or doesn't come or how it's going to be funded or not and
those sorts of things. And an original concept and a new -- maybe second alternative
concept and so there is just a lot of information and I think -- I personally would want to
be boiled down if I were to make a motion. That's just my point of view.
De Weerd: Thank you. Well, we have heard one point of view. Anyone else want to
offer any thoughts or a motion to do somefhing, either open the Public Hearing or
approve or deny. So, fhose are your choices. I'm just here to run your meeting.
Zaremba: Well, Madam Mayor, I probably would offer two opposing points of view
De Weerd: Okay. ~
Zaremba: I have not resolved this myself yet.
De Weerd: Okay.
Zaremba: One is fhat I'm happy to see some activity beginning in this area. It's a spot
that needs commercial activity available to the interstate. I can see huge benefits to the
City of Meridian, including all the people that live around it, by having something happen
here. My inclination would be that we act only on the concept plan that the ACHD
commission has seen and that our Planning and Zoning Commission has seen and
however it is worded, encourage them to bring the alternate back either as variation or a
new plat or something that would also require a Public Hearing. That Public Hearing
would be on the configuration, not -- not on the annexation, if we move ahead. On that
same side, I have been involved in fhe approval of many of the residences that are just
to the west of this, holding my nose waiting for this connection to be made, through
Waltman over to Meridian and hoping that we have no disaster before this comes. So,
for all of those reasons I would very much like to have this happen. The other side of it
is the transportation infrastructure around it is not there yet and regardless of what is
done on fhis property, I understand the promises fhat are made to help the other pieces
of the transportation infrastructure get done -- it's difficult, because I think where I would
go on my opposing, which I'm giving now, is that the property to the east of this needs to
be developed in conjunction with this one, so that all of Waltman Lane is solved and
what the traffic flows -- what the traffic needs are going to be. It's not helping, but I
aould be convinced either way.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Nary.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilmember Zaremba, the only
caution I would tell you is that if you annex the property without those conditions that
concern you the most, being part of that annexafion, you may find it difficult later to
impose fhose conditions. And so the City Council back in 2002 thought exactly like you
did in trying to annex property at the corner of Ustick and Eagle on the southwest side
Meridian City Council
June 24, 2008
Page 39 of 60
of fhat and because it was conceptual and because it was not tied up very tighfily,
because with the -- what you were anticipafing what happened didn't happen, we spent
a long time trying to get that property to conform with what the needs of fhe city are.
So, I would just be cautious if you want to do that. You might be wiser as a Council to
address your concerns on the record, make those -- bring those up and send it back to
Planning and Zoning for addressing those specific things, so that it does get ironed out,
because there has been a lot of give and take and discussion in front of you that
Planning and Zoning didn't hear. Just a caution. That's all.
Zaremba: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Zaremba, I guess I'm trying to understand -- fhe property to the
east of this is annexed and they weren't required to do any road improvements. So, that
is why you're in the conundrum that you're in today. ~
Zaremba: East of this is already in?
De Weerd: Yeah.
Zaremba: The other square? I didn't realize that.
De Weerd: Yeah.
Rountree: The state property isn't.
Nary: All the residential parcels have been.
Zaremba: Yeah. You're right. Some of it is.
De Weerd: So, what would you like to do?
Rountree: Well, Madam Mayor, at fhis point, given the information from ACHD and all
of the things that I have heard in terms of mitigation and/or timing, I'm inclined to want to
get that list put together that can be included in a motion, so the specificity for a motion
to approve the annexation would include that. Were I inclined to be opposed to this
project right now I would have already made that motion.
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Rountree, would you like to open the Public Hearing, so that we
can clarify the items and the information that you wish to be assembled for a concise
motion? Okay. I'm just trying to figure out what you want. But I have got all night, so --
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Meridian City Council
June 24, 2008
Page 40 of 60
Zaremba: I think I would support the idea of reopening the hearing to do exacfly as you
described, to have President Rountree discuss the list and, then, continue it probably for
two weeks to have Planning and Zoning review the list and maybe add anything that
they need to out of it, so fihat we have a new staff report. That does not mean that I
would promise fhat we would approve it when we got there, but I would like to have that
list and it would go a long way to helping me decide which way to go.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Councilman Zaremba, you said you wanted Planning and Zoning to look at the
list? In other words, you're proposing to send this back to Planning and Zoning?
Zaremba: I didn't mean the Commission, I meant the staff. I'm sorry.
Bird: Okay. Because I'm going, no, I don't think I want it sent back.
Zaremba: I think we can make the decision.
Bird: Yeah. Okay. We better.
Zaremba: I don't see the director being very happy about that.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I think these folks have gone to
enough Planning and Zoning and City Council meetings that their views have been
represented at numerous occasions. I'm not sure they want to go to more Planning and
Zoning Commission hearings, so -- I think we can do as Council has asked.
Zaremba: Yeah. I did mean for the decision to be made by Council two weeks from
now one way or the other.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we reopen the public hearings on Items 8 and 9.
Zaremba: I second that.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to reopen the pubiic hearings on Item
8 and 9. All those in favor say aye. Those opposed?
Bird: Aye. Same signal, only under no.
Rountree: He's no.
Meridian City Cowncil
June 24, 2008
Page 41 of 60
De Weerd: Okay. Okay. The Public Hearing has been reopened.
MOTION CARRIED: TWO AYES. ONE NAY. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd: Mr. Rounfiree.
Rountree: Do we need a motion or just a direction to staff?
De Weerd: A direction to staff.
Rountree: Bill?
Nary: Yeah. Just a direction is fine and, then, a motion to continue to July 8th or --
Rountree: Okay.
De Weerd: Anna, will you need a week or two weeks?
Canning; Well, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, if all Council wants is for us to
draft a motion so they could t~ke care of all the changes, we can have that in a week,
but to do that revised staff report I'm probably going to need two weeks
De Weerd: Okay. So, depending on what you need.
Rountree: I think wifih that explanation, Madam Mayor, one week would be sufficient.
De Weerd: Okay.
Rountree: So, I'm going to make a recommendation to staff that they prepare the
motion that articulates the discussion and direction on the project being timed such that
fhe split corridor intersection improvement is done. That a CU would be required for
any square footage greater than 100,000. That architectural design elements on the
structures will continue all the way around the structures, similar to the example
provided by the applicant at Target. That there is a completion of Waltman -- that
Waltman Lane half section as provided this evening. The landscape barrier to the north
-- and I believe it was specific to or on either side of and including the Haddocks'
property, would be include as committed. If an alternate plan is decided, then, a new
preliminary plat would have to be presented that would show the plat and vehicular
access. No building permits would be issued after 8,000 vehicle trip generation, as
calculated by ACHD and the reason I asked for staff to review the testimony is thafs
where my list ends, but I know there is other things that need to be added to that list.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, if Councilmember Rountree could
comment on the applicant's proposals to buffer the residential properties to the west as
noted in the memo before Council last week.
Meridian City Council
June 24, 2008
Page 42 of 60
Rounfiree: Yes.
Canning: And if Councilmember Rountree could comment on the proposed cap on the
number of cattle allowed as an interim agriculture use.
Rountree: I believe that the comment was 25.
Zaremba: And one horse.
De Weerd: Plus the horse.
Rountree: And a horse.
Canning: And, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, President Rountree, the start
time with regard to the uses adjoining the residential, the applicant committed to an end
time, but never stipulated a beginning fime in fhat letter, there may have been testimony
last week and I have forgotten what it was for the beginning time.
Rountree: I believe there was and I think it was like 8:00 o'clock.
Canning: Okay. And, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, that's all I had in my
notes that I could recall. I fhink Mr. Nickel summarized a lot of the proposed
modifications in his memo last week, so we can pull those and integrate them into the
motion for Council.
Rountree: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Anything fiurther?
Zaremba: I would second that and I have a question.
De Weerd: Well, it wasn't a motion.
Zaremba: It wasn't a motion?
Rountree: I# was just direction.
Zaremba: I would support that concept, then.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Zaremba: And I do have a quesfion. Would the requiring of a platting process for the
alternate concept trigger a Public Hearing?
Rountree: Uh-huh.
Meridian City Council
June 24, 2008
Page 43 of 60
Zaremba: Then, I'm in favor of that
De Weerd: Okay.
Canning: And Councilmember Rountree, Members of the Council, if I could ask for one
more clarification. Typically, in our -- you said no building permits issued after the 8,000
trip count. Typically, the way the process works is they come into the Planning
Department, they get a certificate of zoning compliance. We send the certificate of
zoning compliance off to ACHD. They work with the applicant kind of independently,
kind of at the same time that the building permit stage is going on. I would recommend
in this case that we try and get that approval from ACHD prior to initiating the certificate
of zoning compliance. Okay.
Bird: I think -- Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Bird: I think Christie stated that in her testimony that they would --
Rountree: Yeah. They would hold off.
Bird: They would hold off. When they got to the trips they would shut it down.
De Weerd: Well -- and I guess what that allows is you can get your CZC, have ACHD
do their review, you just couldn't get a building permit. I mean your building permit can
be reviewed, you just wouldn't be able to get a building permit, unless ACHD signed off.
Bird: That's right.
Canning: And, Madam Mayor, maybe -- perhaps Mrs. Little could comment on how
they integrate their comments into that, because I'm not sure once we issue the CZC, at
what point they have leverage, so --
De Weerd: Okay.
Canning: We could work on that fihis week and get back to you. How is that?
De Weerd: Okay. That can be brought back.
Canning: Yes.
De Weerd: Okay.
Rountree: Very good.
Meridian City Council
June 24, 2008
Page 44 of 60
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Zaremba: I don't know if this is the appropriate time to ask this question or not. In the
new intersection configuration, how do these fiive properties get access? They currently
use this little thing here that I think will go away to get there.
Canning: Madam Mayor, I-- my memory may be a little faulty, but I think what they did
is -- I believe they looped something back kind of like this or then --
Zaremba: Okay. So, they will still be able to get there?
Canning: I believe so. It was just one property and I know it was addressed. I can't
state that much with confidence, but I know that they did look at that and address it in
some fashion.
De Weerd: They would have to.
Canning: Yeah.
Zaremba: Thank you.
Rountree: Do it or buy it.
De Weerd: Okay. Anything further from Council? If not, do I have a motion to continue
this Public Hearing?
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I move that we continue the Public Hearing for Items 8 and 9
until our next regularly scheduled meeting, which would be July 1 st.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, the concern --
Rountree: Oh, we have issues, don't we?
De Weerd: Yeah. With that is -- you are the third vote and unless you're first on Kuna's
agenda, which we don't know what fheir agenda looks like.
Rountree: Maybe that would be a good reason for me not to go to Kuna.
Bird: It sounds like you had that all lined out.
De Weerd: I guess it is your decision.
Rountree: July 8th.
Meridian City Council
June 24, 2008
Page 45 of 60
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: I have a mofion and a second to continue this Public Hearing to July 8th.
All those in favor say aye. Any opposed? All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd: Okay. Item 10 is a Public Hearing -- Council, we are going to call a five
minute break.
(Recess.)
Item 10: Public Hearing: Draft 2008 Annual Action Plan, Community
Development Block Grant (CDBG) program:
De Weerd: Okay. Let's go. I'll go ahead and call this meeting to order again. Item No.
10 is a Public Hearing on the draft 2008 Annual Action Plan Community Development
Block Grant program.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I would like to formally introduce you
to Mrs. Sarah Wheeler. Some of you met her at the bowling alley. This is her first time
before Council.
Nary: As part of a fundraiser.
Canning: Yeah.
De Weerd: They were an awesome fundraising team.
Canning: Yeah. Yes, we were. And I'm going to turn it over to Sarah. I just wanted to
introduce her and point her out as our shining new star in the planning department.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Wheeler: Thank you, Anna.
De Weerd: And welcome, Sarah.
Wheeler: Thank you, Mayor and Members of fihe Council. I'm going to keep this short,
sweet, and simple and fast, so if I'm speaking too fast, please, slow me down. Just a
brief background of why we are -- oh. The City of Meridian, as you know, was
designated an entitlement community by the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban
Development and as such it can directly receive entitlement grants that a Community
Development Block Grant program or CDBG as I'll just refer to it for the rest of the
presentation, basically allocates some of that to cities to develop viable communities.
Now, they are somewhat limited in scope due to federal restrictions, obviously,
Meridian City Council
June 24, 2008
Page 46 of 60
complexity of administration and, of course, activity costs, but it is a good program that
can help the city. tn January of 2008 Meridian's first consolidated plan and action plan
was approved thanks to the hard work Emily Kane and, basically, the consolidated plan
functions as a framework for -- and dictates how the city's actions should continue for
the next five years. So, why are we here? Well, according to the CDBG regulations,
entitlement communities must develop an action plan each year in order to receive
funding. The plan, obviously, must go through a public hearing process and, then,
obtain Council approvai before it can be submitted to HUD. In February of this year
HUD informed the city fhat they would be receiving approximately 237,000 dollars for
the program year '08 action plan, which runs from October 1 st, 2008, until September
30th, 2009. So, it's kind of a liftle bit off from Meridian's fiiscal year. So, in order to
receive CDBG funding, the City of Meridian must submit this annual action plan by
August 15th, 2008. This is just a public hearing. It will go before City Council approval
hopefully on July 29th for the official approval. We held a town hall meeting on April
30fh to go through kind of our ideas, send out fliers, press release, and whatnot. On
June 11th we published a notice in the Statesman and the Valley Times just to bring
attention to this meefing. And the draft plan is available online on the Meridian Planning
Department main page and, then, hard copies are at Meridian City Hall, at Meridian
senior center, the public library and the Meridian Planning Department for the public to
view. Before we open to public comment, just kind of what can the funds be used for.
The funds are limited to address three of HUD's national objectiyes, which the first being
decent housing. The second suitable living environment. And the third economic
development. Now, 70 percent of these funds have to address the needs of low and
moderate income persons. We have spent a lot of the 2007 -- well, allocated a lot of the
2007 funds for fhe development of -- well, the renewing of slum and blight, basically,
within Meridian. So, that wasn't part of that 70 percent, so we really need a target that --
with fhis action plan and thaYs what we have tried to do. So, Meridian LMI districts are
kind of up above right fihere. We have -- Meridian is an exceptional criteria community
in the fact that we do not have a lot of low to moderate income consensus blocks and so
as an exceptional criteria we were able to drop the standard to 45 percent LMI, instead
of the 51 required by federal regulations. So, that entitled us to three different census
blocks, which are seen on the screen. Just to put that in context, these are the three
census blocks in relationship to the urban renewal district and the City of Meridian,
which includes the downtown area. All right. So, just briefly, these are the allocations
that we feel would be appropriate for the program year '08 action plan. First, the
housing component was fhe main goal of the Meridian CDBG consolidated plan.
Housing itself is creating it. New housing is kind of problematic, because the city is not
allowed to build new housing units. Because of this barrier, we felt that joining with
ofiher agencies would be our most valuable asset. So, we contacted the habitat for
humanity and they were on board with us purchasing a potential lot for them to build on,
kind of like we did I believe last year with the school district. So, that would be a great
partnership there. So, that was 60,000 dollars. Another 50,000 dollars -- we talked to
Boise city, Ada County Housing Authority, and they have programs where they help low,
moderate income families buy down mortgages, help with down payment assistance, so
we could have more home ownership within the Meridian city limits, which would be a
great program. The second component of the CDBG, basically, revolves around
Meridian City Council
June 24, 2008
Page 47 of 60
creating a suitable living environment and we have kind of outlined and we kind of
allocated 80,000 dollars towards those goals. We propose 40,000 dollars going
towards the Meridian Boys and Girls Glub to help in fhe new, new gymnasium design,
because we all know they are growing and fhey are a very valuable asset to the youth in
Meridian. Secondly, 20,000 dollars to Meridian Senior Center. They could definitely
use some floor renovations and, then, updating their phone systems, so they have
modern capabilities, such as voicemail. We definitely believe that would a great asset
to enhancing services to our seniors and so would really like to see that go forward.
Third, obviously, code enforcement. We'd like to continue some funding code
enforcement for specifically those low, moderate income areas, so they can help
decrease the deteriorafiion going on in those areas. And, then, economic development
-- we don't have anything allocated towards that this year. The 2007 were kind of -- was
kind of focused on that and so we felt that it would be a good idea to focus on the
housing component and the suitable living environment. We feel that these projects will
not only bring multiple agencies together and kind of create a good working relationship,
but they do provide great opportunities for Meridian to enhance housing and create a
better environment for its residents. With fhat I'd like to open for any questions or
comments by Council.
De Weerd: Thank you, Sarah. Council, any questions?
Bird: 1 have none.
Rounfree: I missed the math here, but this shows 190,000 and you were talking we
were eligible for 234,000 -- or something like that.
Wheeler: Correct. What's not on there -- I guess I should have put on there -- is the
administrative funding. That equals the rest of the portion and that's to administer the
grant.
Rountree: Okay. Okay. Thank you.
Canning: And, Madam Mayor, along those lines, Mrs. Wheeler is spending about two-
thirds of her time getting up to speed on the Community Development Block Grant
entitlement process, so she -- the other one-third of the time is spent trying to learn how
to be a planner in the office as well. So, we are keeping her very busy. But in -- she
was afraid you would ask how she came about selecting these particular projects and I
did want to focus on the fact that we had tried to pick ones that are -- require as little
administration as possible and that we feel we can learn how to administer these
projects and get them done. We may come to you wifh more complicated projects as
time goes by, but we are trying to stick to the simplest, easiest ones to administer that
we can come up wifh. And so that was a huge criteria in how we selected these
programs.
De Weerd: I think maybe better said is the low hanging fruit.
Meridian City Council
June 24, 2008
Page 48 of 60
Canning: Yes. Exactly.
Rountree: And all very deserving.
De Weerd: Very much so.
Canning: Yes.
De Weerd: Very much so. Yes. Thank you. This is a Public Hearing. Is there anyone
who would like to provide testimony on this item? You know how to pack a room. So
do we. We know how to clear a room.
Rountree: Madam Mayor? .
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we close the Public Hearing on Item No. 10.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have --
Rountree: Or do we leave it open until fihe public hearing's done?
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I-- Sarah would know, but I think we -- I
don't think we can close the Public Hearing. Don't we have to leave it open, because
we are going to receive comment between now and fihe closing period. So, I think we
have to confinue it to --
De Weerd: So, we are not meeting July 29th? Is that what I understand?
Bird: That's right.
De Weerd: So --
Nary: Isn't that correct? Don't we have to do it that way?
Wheeler: Oh. Correct. Yes.
Nary: Okay.
Rountree: So, we --
De Weerd: So, we can -- we can continue this Public Hearing on a week-by-week basis
or until August 5th?
Meridian City Council
June 24, 2008
Page 49 of 60
Nary: I fhink we can do it until August 5th. I don't think we have to hold it weekly,
because they can accept comment befinreen now and then.
De Weerd: Yes. It can be written.
Wheeler: Precisely. They just need 31 days from tonight.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, with all that help, I moved that we continue this Public
Hearing until August 5th.
Bird: I second that.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to continue fhis Public Hearing until
August 5th. All those in favor say aye.
MOTION CARRfED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 11: Public Hearing: MI 08-005 Request for a Miscellaneous application to
amend the existing Development Agreement to allow the construction of
the four eight-plexes prior to the construction of the Pine/Ten Mile
Intersection for Sommersbv Subdivision by Liberty Partners, Inc. -
Northeast Corner of West Pine Avenue and North Ten Mile Road:
De Weerd: Okay. Item 11 is a Public Hearing on MI 08-005. I will open this Public
Hearing wifh staff comments.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council -- let me get the right slide show up
for you. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is the Sommersby Subdivision
project. It's located at the northeast corner of Pine Avenue and Ten Mile Road. The
application before you tonight is a development agreement modificafion and that
modification is shown in your staff report. They are, basically, requesting that they be
allowed to construct the four eight-plexes that were originally proposed prior to the
widening of the Ten Mile and the construction of the Pine - Ten Mile intersection. And
one of the main concerns regarding this project in 2004 was the traffic that would be
contributing to the already congested Pine - Ten Mile intersection. ACHD is in the
process of completing the interim changes and that's a temporary signal and left turn
lanes to the Franklin - Ten Mile intersection scheduled for completion in mid July.
ACHD aiso added two left turn lanes, one from Ten Mile to Pine and the other from Pine
to Ten Mile to help alleviate congestion at that intersection. Staff contacted AGHD for
traffic count information and was informed the last firaffic count, which was conducted in
2006, for Pine Avenue east of Ten Mile, generated approximately 4,000 trips and is
currenfly operating at an acceptable level of service. Do have elevations tonight. This
is the location of the four eight-plex lots and this is the elevation of the unit. And this is,
actually, a.four-plex, so the eight-plex would just be two of these put together. So, staff
Meridian Ciry Council
June 24, 2008
, Page 50 of 60
has recommended some specific wording. They took -- as the applicant had requested,
they took out the prohibition on the four eight-plex buildings, but they added a new
condition stating that the Lots 43 through 50 as shown on the preliminary plat of the
, Sommersby Subdivision, shall be recorded prior to issuance of occupancy for the first
eight-plex building. So, the idea was that we get that final plat recorded before we issue
~ those building permits. Or any building permit. And with that I will answer any
questions Council may have.
De Weerd: Council, questions for staff?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
. Bird: Anna, they -- they have got some buildings up out there, don't they?
Canning: Yes, sir. They have everything but the eight-plexes and the o~ce lot.
Bird: Okay. They --
Rountree: All fhe four-plexes are in.
Canning: All the four-plexes --
Zaremba: The ones that are built are these.
Canning: Yes.
~ Bird: Not all of them.
' Zaremba: Well, not all of them are there yet.
Rountree: Just the center.
. Bird: There is three or four buildings there.
Zaremba: Yeah.
Rountree: There is more than that.
De Weerd: Yeah. There is more than that. Okay. Any other questions? Mr.
Rountree?
Rountree: Yeah, I guess I do have a question. Can we get them to be a different color?
Nary: They are all different colors.
Meridian City Council
June 24, 2008
Page 51 of 60
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, because they are modifying the DA
the whole DA is open, so if you want to make suggestions and additions to the
development agreement, I think that that's certainly what's being discussed tonight.
De Weerd: Only if they can improve the sidewalk and property across the street from
them.
Canning: Madam Mayor, I know that Mr. Over -- or Lieutenant Overton -- I can never
remember his rank -- is working on that. Did I get it wrong again? Yeah. Is working --
he was working on that today.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Any other questions from Council? Okay. Would the
applicant like to comment? On the color. I just -- I just think this is so ironic. I was not
here when this was approved, but I was here when it was in front of Council when you
were the planning director and you know the riots that happened in the street on this
one, so --
Stiles: Not since we have been doing the project.
De Weerd: If you will, please, state your name and address for the record.
Stiles: Sheri Stiles. Engineering Solutions. 1029 North Rosario Street in Meridian.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Stiles: I don't really have anything to add. We are in agreement with staff's conditions
of approval. I thought they had some variafion in some of the colors out there. They
are all earth tones.
De Weerd: He's color blind, so --
Bird: They are all in the modern color.
Rountree: They are all really brown.
Stiles: Bright?
Rountree: No. Brown.
Stiles: Oh, brown? Well, that was what they got approved. Well, I'll ask him if he'd like
to do some variations and get with staff and see if there is something they can do with
fihose colors.
Bird: Tell him to put a pink one on and --
Meridian City Council
June 24, 2008
Page 52 of 60
De Weerd: You know, I don't -- I don't know if -- is Lieutenant Stowe sitting over there?
Stiles: Lime green.
De Weerd: Have we had some vandalism or little fires going on in that area? You
know, can -- is there any recommendations from the police department on how we can
create a safer building environment out there? I know you hide around the corner there
for a reason, but --
Stowe: Madam Mayor, Members of Council, I haven't seen the entire application, so I'm
not familiar with what recommendations Lieutenant Overton has made on this.
However, we have had some incidents of arson out there. What we really want to
maintain is a lot of natural surveillance and we want to make sure there is some open
areas that we can -- if these type of incidents occur, we do have eyes on them or we at
least have the opportunity to have eyes on it and not only discourage it, but to at least
see it when it happens. So, right now that's about as specific as I can get.
De Weerd: Yeah. But we have had problems out fhere, Sheri, and I-- I guess if there
is anything that the developers can do to -- to help with security in that area, it would be
very helpful. And I know it's their property loss, too, so -- .
Stiles: Madam Mayor, Council Members, I wasn't aware of -- was it arson of an existing
building going up or is it fire of the weeds or --
De Weerd: I think there has been damage to the structures themselves
Stowe: There has been structural damage.
Stiles: I do know fhat Mr. Collister has a relative living in fhe house now, to not only
kind of be a caretaker, but just because he needed the help with a place to live, so --
they done their landscaping and it looks pretty nice to me. I mean maybe Mr. Stowe
wasn't aware of the whole development that -- it has been approved, the configuration,
everything, but we do need to get with both you and the fire department to make sure
our development, in putting in those four eight-plexes, gives you the sight and the
security you need for fire suppression, too.
Stowe: And, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, just to go a little bit further, we
have been working with the fire department out there in that general area, putting more
patrols out there and we haven't had any recent incidents. Most of the incidents now
are at least I believe a month old.
Stiles: Thank you.
Nary: And at least these are a aolor. I mean the project across the street is all one
color.
Meridian City Council
June 24, 2008
Page 53 of 60
De Weerd: Yeah. Weeds. Weed color.
Bird: I was going to say, those across the street --
Nary: And the other project behind D&B is all one color, so -- at least these are
varieties of colors.
Stiles: Do you have any questions of ine?
De Weerd: Any other quesfions, Council? Or any questions? Thank you. Okay. This
is a Public Hearing. Is there anyone who would like to provide testimony on this
application? Seeing none, Council?
Rountree: Madam Mayor'?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we close the Public Hearing on Item No. 11.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to close the Public Hearing. All those
in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd: Okay.
Canning: Madam Mayor, just to clarify that record, the comment regarding Lieutenant
Overton was with regard to the properties south of here, not to this one.
De Weerd: I understood it. Okay. Council, what would you like to do?
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I move that we approve the DA amendment with the
conditions as specified by staff in their staff report and agreed by fhe applicant.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have motion and a second. Any discussion? Hearing none,
Madam Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, absent.
De Weerd: Okay. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Meridian City Council
June 24, 2008
Page 54 of 60
Item 12: Public Hearing: VAC 08-005 Request for a Vacation of the 10-foot wide
public utility easement located along the south property boundary of Lot 3,
Block 1 of Devon Park Subdivision No. 2(aka Fairview Lakes) by
Fairview Lakes, LLC -%2 mile east of North Meridian Road and north side
of East Fairview Avenue:
De Weerd: Item 12 is a Public Hearing on VAC 08-005. I will open this Public Hearing
wifh staff comments.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, fihis is the Devon Park Subdivision
No. 2, aka Fairview Lakes project. It's a vacation. It's located midway between
Meridian and Locust Grove on fihe north side of Fairview -- actually, on Lakes Place.
De Weerd: We haven't seen this application for awhile.
Canning: At least a month. The request before you tonight is for a ten foot wide public
ufiility easement located on southern boundary of Lot 3, Block 1, in Devon Park
Subdivision No. 2. The easement is proposed to be relocated within a drive aisle and
platted with Devon Park Subdivision. So, this is the location of the current easement.
My understanding from Mr. Steckline is that fhey actually are going to vacate the entire
easement and, then, re-plat an easement for this front portion, because there are
existing utilities there. To our knowledge, with regard to the vacafion, there are no
outstanding issues before Council. Councilmember Zaremba did ask us about previous
commitments to include amenities for the project as a whole and I can provide some
information on that. But staff is recommending approval of the vacation. We have
received all the necessary relinquishment.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: I have none.
De Weerd: No?
Zaremba: Not for staff.
De Weerd: You survived. Hi.
Tamura: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, my name is Doug Tamura, we are
fhe developers of Fairview Lakes. What that was is it was just a-- a standard ten foot
ufility easement when we did the subdivision -- or Devon Park Sub No. 1 and Sub No. 2.
What we have done is we went ahead and did kind of a mirror image of -- of the office
complex on the east side of the road. So, all of the infrastructure for this next phase is
in and so at fhe last -- we got kind of a chicken and the egg. The last requirement for us
Meridian City Council
June 24, 2008
Page 55 of 60
to be able to plat Devon Park No. 3 is the vacation of this easement and so we have
already put all the utilities in. We have -- we have given all the required easements to
the utility companies and so it's just a formality to vacate this common easement.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor. It's nice to see you again. You know I'm going to ask about
the amenities. This area down here is supposed to have two amenities and I don't see
them happening. What -- what are fhey going to be?
Tamura: On the -- well, you know, our main amenity is we -- we continued the
pedestrian path through the whole project, so one of the discussions that we had was
the pedestrian pathway and what we did in the original project is it was to follow the
Jackson Drain and so the Jackson Drain ran diagonally through our project. Oh, here is
a pointer. The Jackson Drain ran through the park, through here, and, then, it ran
through here and it was -- it was our observation that the only way that people could
cross Fairview was at the stop light that we put at fhe intersection of North Lakes and
Fairview. So, we have got a ten foot pedestrian path that runs up through -- well, it runs
fhrough here and, fhen, originally we had it designed where it went through the back
yards of fihe -- along our fence line here and, then, ran diagonally, you know, out of our
project. But we had such a strong opposition from our neighborhood over here that we
moved the pedestrian path so it runs up here; comes up here through here and runs
across here and, then, comes back out and,.then, ties in. So, this has all been installed.
The other thing is we came before Planning and Zoning and so we have got kind of our
-- we have been kind of crawling along on our retail, so we have got a little retail strip
here and, then, there is going to be -- when we get ready to do the next phase of the
retail strip here, we have got kind of a-- a patio and a water feature planned, so that
when you come into this project here you will have a nice water feature and landscaping
and a patio that's located in this area right here. So, we have got that approved at
Planning and Zoning on our conditional use. So, those are kind of our two amenities
that we have got planned.
Zaremba: You made me very happy. Thank you.
Tamura: Thank you.
Canning: And -- Madam Mayor, can I follow up on that? Mrs. Watters went to go
inspect that CU for Fairview Lakes retail building number one and two about a month
ago. She did not sign off for occupancy, because the site plan did not match the
approved conditional use plan. The structure design, the parking, and the landscaping
were all different than what was shown on the original. She told Mr. Tamura to submit
revised plans that match what had actually been constructed on the site. He did submit
a revised certificate of zoning compliance application on June 11th wifh an alternative
compliance, proposed an 18 foot wide patio area and a bike rack, instead of the planter
islands with a row of parking in front of the building. Mrs. Watters reviewed the revised
plans in relation to the previously approved CUP site plan and found that they were
Meridian City Council
June 24, 2008
Page 56 of 60
substantially different. So, she did call Mr. Tamura today and left him a message that
he needed to apply for a conditional use modifiication, which in this case is, basically, a
new Conditional Use Permit. So, we do have an outstanding Conditional Use Permit on
fhat retail site with the amenity.
Zaremba: Did it include the amenity?
Canning: Well, we -- my understanding is that the amenity is proposed in a future
phase, that's on the very most eastern boundary that we haven't seen yet. The phase
that's being modified now -- or will need to be modified in this area and I believe that the
amenity is waiting until we have this approval before the Planning and Zoning
Commission.
Tamura: Do you want me to speak to that? It's not part of this application, but I can
kind of explain to you what happened. And I don't know if Sonya's seen -- what
happened is we have done so many modifications to -- particularly to the retail, because
-- because of the market we are constantly trying to shift and, you know, adjust to what's
going on. What we have is a mid block development, so where all the retailers have
wanted to go to Eagle Road, you know, for us to compete with that competition, you
know, one is we are trying to do a nice project, but keep our rents more modest. The
other thing is, you know, like you have suggested, you know, have a nicer project. So, I
think that the quality of what we are doing has been good, but we still haven't been able
to attract tenants. So, one of the things that we are doing is -- is -- since we have
changed it so much that Anna wanted us to come back in -- well, the -- the CZC that I
showed to Sonya had been revised again, so what I need to do is look at our modified
CU, because we ran anofiher modified CU and that approved drive-up windows for this
corner and for this corner down here. Plus it showed the concept of what we were
going to do in phase three and it also showed the amenity of the water feature and the
landscaping in fhis kind focal area here. What we didn't do is fhat in this phase when
we showed this strip retail, the only thing that our CZC showed was that we would have
landscaping here, landscaping here, and then -- and, then, we'd have landscaping in
this third phase. Well, unbeknownst to me is since we went by the CZC we put our
landscaping here and we put our landscaping here, but we didn't put any landscaping in
front of our building. Well, when we did the Hastings building it was similar, you know, it
didn't have any landscaping in the front of our Hastings building, so I didn't know that it
was a city requirement. Well, then, when Sonya came back and she said, well, you
need to put a planter in here and so what I had proposed, since we -- you know, it's
already asphalted and the sidewalks are in and it would be almost -- we would have to
tear up our parking lot to try to get water to a planter in there, that we opted to go ahead
and add an additional patio and bike rack, you know, plus we'd still do the water feature
and fhe landscaping as a focal point here, just to break up the parking that was in front
of this little retail building that's existing. So, it's kind of a separate issue above and
beyond -- what I need to do is look at what we did because we have modified this
condifional use again, so we wouldn't have to come before, you know, the Commission
and Council, because we have been here so often and that we are hoping that we could
paint a big enough picture that the Planning and Zoning would have some flexibility
Meridian City Council
June 24, 2008
Page 57 of 60
staff-wise that they could just waive it on through without us, you know, constantly
coming back. But that's something we can just kind of -- you know, I'll address that with
staff this week and see what we can get figured out. But fhat's kind of above and
beyond this vacation. So, what we are doing tonight is just to vacate the utility
easement.
Zaremba: But you knew that I would ask this question every time you came
Tamura: Oh, yeah.
Zaremba: I'm glad to hear that it is identified and planned for and -- fihat's a big step
forward.
Tamura: Yeah. So, our goal this summer is to work on, you know, getting, you know„
three or four little office buildings built. You know, the retail market right now is very
difficult and we have some interest on our -- on this front area that we are potentially are
going to have to come back in to Planning and Zoning again, but at this point we don't
have anything signed, so --
De Weerd: Thank you.
Tamura: Thank you. Thanks for your time.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Okay. Council? Yes.
Zaremba: I move we close the Public Hearing on VAC 08-005.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the Public Hearing on Item 12. All
fhose in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Zaremba: I move we approve VAC 08-005, to include all staff comments.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 12. If there is no discussion,
Madam Clerk, will you call roll.
Meridian City Council
Jume 24, 2008
Page 58 of 60
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, absent.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 13: Continued Public Hearing from June 17, 2008: Covered Load
Ordinance
Item 14; Ordinance No. 08-1369 : Covered Load Ordinance (2nd of 3
Readings):
De Weerd: Okay. Item 13 is a continue Public Hearing on covered load ordinance.
Madam Glerk, will you, please, read this ordinance by title only.
Holman: City of Meridian Ordinance No. 08-1369, an ordinance of the City of Meridian
adding a new section, Section 13, to Title 7, Chapter 1, Meridian City Code, prohibiting
uncovered loads and providing an effective date.
De Weerd: Okay. You have heard this -- it's the second of three readings. Council?
It's scheduled next week for the third reading, unless you want to pass it tonight with
suspension of rules.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, since you have noticed it as the second
reading and not a third, I wouldn't recommend you suspend the rules at this point.
De Weerd: Okay. We will have it on agenda next week for the third reading.
~ Item 15: Ordinance No. : 2008 National Electric Code
Amendment:
De Weerd: Okay. Item 15 was requested to vacate to July 8th. I would need a motion
to do so.
Rountree: So moved.
Bird: Second.
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to vacate this item to July 8fh. All those in
favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
r
Meridian City Council
June 24, 2008
Page 59 of 60
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 16: Ordinance No. Citizen's Use Permittinq
Process Reaardinq Insurance Policv Requirement:
De Weerd: Item 16 is Ordinance 08-1371. I'll ask the clerk to, please, read this by title
only.
Holman: Thank you, Madam Mayor. City of Meridian Ordinance No. 08-1371, an
ordinance of fhe City of Meridian amending Title 3, Chapter 4, Meridian City Code,
relating insurance policy requirements of the Meridian Citizens Use Permitting process,
providing for a waiver of the reading rules and providing an effective date.
De Weerd: Okay. You have heard this read by title only. Since no one's in our
audience to ask if anyone would like to hear it read in its entirety, it seems moot.
Council?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Bird: I move we approve Ordinance 08-1371, with suspension of rules.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. t have a motion and a second to approve this ordinance, Item 16. If
there is no discussion; Madam Clerk, will you, please, call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, absent.
MOTION CARRfED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 17: Executive Session per ldaho State Code 67-2345(1)(d) -(to consider
records that are exempt from disclosure as provided in chapter 3, title 9,
Idaho Code) &(fl -(to consider and advise its legal representatives in
pending litigation) &(j) To engage in communications with a
representative of the public agency's risk manager or insurance provider
to discuss the adjustment of a pending claim or prevention of a claim
imminently likely to be filed. The mere presence of a representative of the
public agency's risk manager or insurance provider at an executive
session does not satisfy this requirement.
De Weerd: Item 17 is an Executive Session. Do I have a motion?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
Meridian Ciry Council
June 24, 2008
Page 60 of 60
De Weerd: Yes.
Bird: I move we go into Executive Session as per ldaho State Code 67-2345(1)(d)(f)(j).
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to adjourn into Executive Session.
Madam Clerk, will you, please, call roll.
Roll-Cail: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, absent.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
EXECUTIVE SESSION:
De Weerd: I need a motion to come out of Executive Session.
Rountree: So moved.
Bird: Second.
.
De Weerd: All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Rountree: Move to adjourn.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd.: All fhose in favor?
MOTION CARRtED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 10:57 P.M.
(TAPE%ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
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