HomeMy WebLinkAbout2008 07-01Meridian City Council Meetina July 1, 2008
A meefing of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 7:13 p.m., Tuesday, July
1, 2008, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd, Joe Borton, Keith Bird, and David
Zaremba.
Members Absent: Charlie Rountree.
Others Present: Ted Baird, Jaycee Holman, Caleb Hood, Kyle Radek, Bill Johnson,
Tracy Basterrechea, Steve Siddoway and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
X David Zaremba X Joe Borton
Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
De Weerd: Okay. We'd like to welcome you all here. It is Tuesday, July 1 st. What a
great day. It's ten ~minutes after 7:00 -- or 13 minutes after 7:00. We will start tonight's
meeting with roll call attendance.
Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance:
De Weerd: Okay. Item No. 2 is the Pledge of Allegiance. If you will all raise and join us
in the pledge.
(Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
Item 3: Community Invocation by Pastor Burton Roberts with Meridian
Gospel Tabernacle:
De Weerd: Okay. Item No. 3 is our community invocafion. Tonight we will be led by
Pastor Burton Roberts. He is the retired pastor wifh Meridian Gospei Tabernacle. We
would ask fhat you join us in the community invocation or take this as an opportunity for
a moment of refilection. It's nice seeing you again, pastor.
Roberts: Thank you. It's good to be here and I appreciate the opportunity, once again,
to come before the Mayor and Council at this time. Let us pray. Most gracious and kind
Heavenly Father, it is always wiih joy that we take this moment to come before you and
ask for your blessings. But, Father, tonight I would like to pause, first of all, to say thank
you, God, for all fhat you have done for each one of us, for each one of our lives, the
many blessings that you have poured out upon us, for the privilege that we each one
have of being a part of the City of Meridian we thank you. So, Father, we ask that as
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July 1, 2008
Page 2 of 34
we continue to look forward to the years ahead and ail fhe wonderful things that you
have planned for each one of this city, that -- that we would be able to ask for you
wisdom, our guidance to be present at each time that we come together, that you would
cause all of our hearts and our minds to be able to turn towards you, realizing that in --
in days such as we.live, if there was ever a day that we need your guidance and help,
it's these days. And so, Father, we just know that we can ask of that and receive. So,
bless our Mayor and the Council and all the workers of the City of Meridian and cause
all of our hearts to be joined together in a special unity of your spirit for furtherance of all
the wonderful things that you have planned for us. We ask now your full blessing upon
this night and ask it in Jesus' mighty name, amen.
De Weerd: Thank you so much. Okay. Pastor Burton, we have new City of Meridian
pins. So, I would love to present you with one of our pins to thank you for joining us
today.
Roberts: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. It's also an honor that I'm a new grandmother. My daughter
delivered my first baby girl granddaughter on Sunday.
Zaremba: Congratulations.
De Weerd.: Bella. And she is beautiful, so --
Zaremba: We can all call you Nana?
De Weerd: Nana is good.
Bird: Grandma.
De Weerd: Grandma sounds way too old.
Bird: Will's going to have to give up his name.
Item 4: Adoption of the Agenda:
De Weerd: Okay. Item No. 4, adoption of the agenda.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: On the Consent Agenda, Item F, the resolution number is proposed to be 08-
612. I'm reading from a revised updated agenda. There is an Item I on the Consent
Agenda and that is proposed to be resolution 08-613. On the regular agenda, Item 8
has been asked to be confiinued to -- or removed, rather, to be heard on July 22nd,
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July 1, 2008
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2008, and so we won't do that.
request to move Items 12 and
replace Item 8 with Items 12
modified.
Bird: Second.
11em 13 is Ordinance No. 08-1369 and there has been a
13 to earlier in the agenda tonight and I will move that we
and 13. With that I move that we adopt the agenda as
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda as amended. All
those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTfON CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 5: Consent Agenda:
A. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: RZ 08-
001 Request to Rezone 0.32 acres from R-4 to O-T zone for Trinity
Assisted Livinq by Elisha Ricky - 1353 West 1 St Street:
B. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: CUP
08-005 Request for Conditional Use Permit to operate a 24-hour
Nursing Care Facility in a proposed O-T zoning district and
conditional use approval for a site and building that does not meet
the criteria of the Downtown Meridian Design Guidelines for Trinity
Assisted Livina by Elisha Ricky - 1353 West 1 St Street:
C. License Aqreement with Nampa Meridian Irriqation District for
the Black Cat Trunk Sewer Phase 4 Schedule B8~C:
D. Water Main Easement Aqreement for Monev Tree by Katsam,
LLC:
E. Cooperative Construction and Reimbursement Aqreement with
Primeland Development Co., LLP for $22,349.95:
F. Resolution No. : VAC 08-005 Request for
a Vacation of the 10-foot wide public utility easement located along
fhe south property boundary of Lot 3, Block 1 of Devon Park
Subdivision No. 2(aka Fairview Lakes) by Fairview Lakes, LLC -
'/2 mile east of North Meridian Road and north side of East Fairview
Avenue
G. Approval of Contract Amendment for Senske Lawn ~ Tree
Care, Inc. for the addition of services to the Water Division
Building and Fire Station #5 for $24,925.00 over the 3 year
contract term:
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July 1, 2008
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H. Chanqe Order No.1 for Black Cat Road Water Main Extension
Phase 1& 2(Construction) with Brown Construction, Inc. for
$44,164.50:
Resolution No.
Parkinq Committee:
De Weerd: Item 5 is our Consent Agenda.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor'?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Downtown Meridian
Zaremba: Noting that Item F is resolution number 08-612 and Item I is resolution
number 08-613, I move that we adopt the -- fhat we adopt the Consent Agenda and for
the Mayor to sign and the clerk to attest.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda. If
there is no discussion, Madam Clerk, will you, please, ca11 roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, absent; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 6: Department Reports:
De Weerd: Okay. There is no department reports.
Item 7: Items Moved from Consent Agenda:
De Weerd: And no items moved from the Consent Agenda.
Item 8: MFP 08-005 Request to Modify the previously approved Final Plat (FP 05-
076) by removing the requirement for a 5-foot detached sidewalk along
Lots 54-66, Block 5, which are located on the south side of E. Deerhill
Street between Montague Way and Genoard Avenue for Messina
Meadows by Tuscany Development, Inc. -'h mile west of S. Eagle Road
and '/2 mile south of E. Victory Road:
De Weerd: I#em 8 has been requested to vacate until July 22nd, so we will go ahead --
Zaremba: Madam Mayor, do we need a motion for that?
De Weerd: Do we?
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July 1, 2008
Page 5 of 34
Baird: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, it's not a public hearing. It does need to
be continued. You have already noted on the record that ifs vacated and reset. So,
unless anybody wants to add some formality to it, I think you have set the record. As I
understand it, it's a public item, but not a public hearing.
Item 12: Continued Public Hearing from June 24, 2008: Covered Load
Ordinance:
Item 13: Ordinance No. 08-1369 : Covered Load Ordinance (3rd of 3
Readings):
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Item 12 was moved into this slot and we do have a
continued public hearing on the covered load ordinance. Madam Clerk, will you, please,
read this ordinance by title only.
Holman: Thank you, ~ Madam Mayor. City of Meridian Ordinance No. 08-1369. An
ordinance of the City of Meridian adding a new secfion, Section 13, to Title 7, Chapter 1,
Meridian City Code, prohibiting uncovered loads and providing an effective date.
De Weerd: Okay. This is a public hearing. Is there anyone who would like to~ provide
testimony on this appliaation? Or on this ordinance. Okay. Seeing none, Council?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we close the public hearing on the covered load ordinance.
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close Item No. 12. All fhose in favor say
aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd: Okay. We are in the third of three readings on this. Council, I would look
for your motion.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve ordinance 08-1369.
Zaremba: Second.
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July 1, 2008
Page 6 of 34
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve the covered load ordinance. Is
there any discussion? Hearing none, Madam Clerk, will you call roll.
Ro11-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, absent; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 9: Public Hearing: SHP 08-004 Request for a Short Plat to amend existing
4-unit condominium, Building E on a commercial building lot in a C-N zone
for Quenzer Commons Condominium Amendment No. 2 by Brighton
Commercial, Inc. - 1545 E. Leigh Field Drive:
De Weerd: Thank you all. Okay. Item 9 is a public hearing on SHP 08-004. I will open
this public hearing with staff comments.
Hood: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Item No. 9 is a short plat.
Essentially, short and sweet. This is a revised short plat. They are doing a
condominium on fhis building and the original condominium, the walls -- the dimensions
of the wall areas and the descriptions now have to be amended, so they are back
before us for a revised short plat. It just has to do, again, with the internal dimensions of
the wall space in the four lease areas -- or for sale areas in Quenzer Commons
condominium -- excuse me -- on short plat number two. It's off of Leighfield Drive in
Quenzer Commons. I do have a letter from the applicant agreeing to all the conditions
in the staff report and I will stand for any questions you may have.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none.
Borton: No.
Zaremba: No.
De Weerd: Okay. This is a public hearing. Is there anyone who would like to provide
testimony on this application? Like the applicant. No. Okay.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Borton.
Borton: I move fhat we close the public hearing on Item 9, SHP 08-004.
Zaremba: Second.
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July 1, 2008
Page 7 of 34
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing on Item 9. All
those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTIDN CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I move we approve Item 9, SHP 08-004.
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 9. Is there any discussion?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Roll call vote.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, absent; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 10: Public Hearing: SHP 08-005 Request for Short Plat approval to create 2
building lots on 1.05 acres in an L-O zone for Cammann Park
Subdivision by Todd Meyers - NEC of NW 8th Street and Cherry Lane:
De Weerd: Okay. Item 10 is a public hearing on SHP 08-005. I will open this public
hearing with staff comments.
Hood: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Item No. 10 is also a short
plat for the Cammann Park Subdivision. It's located on the northeast corner of
Northwest 8Yh Street and Cherry Lane. Here is an aerial view of fhe site. As you can
see, one of the areas of the short plat -- one of the lots is already developed with an
existing professional office building. They are proposing to develop the remainder area
wifh another professional office building just to the east in this general vicinity here.
They will be using this driveway as a shared access, as well as that -- excuse me -- fhat
ofiher driveway over to 8th Street for both lots wifihin the proposed subdivision. This
does have the two lots. Staff is recommending approval. We did receive testimony
today from Ada County Highway District, a memo from Christie Rich -- or Christie Little,
excuse me. And the memo states fhat they may in the future restrict one or both of
these access points to the adjacent roadway due to traffic volumes and/or injuries.
They are approving them at this point, but fhey just wanted to put that out there, that
they may restrict those in the future. Really, the only issue that we have for you tonight
is the question of landscaping adjacent to the existing lot. The landscape plan that staff
received only included fhis lot within the plan, so there wasn't a plan showing what
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July 1, 2008
Page 8 of 34
landscaping existed along the other required street buffers along the street and the
applicant is requesting that that existing landscaping just be remain to stay. So, that's a
question, I guess, for Council. That condition of staff is included in the staff report as
Condition 7-A, which has to do wifh landscaping. And the applicant is here tonight and
they did submit written comments to that effect, too. The other two comments they
have in their letter, I think we have worked through and can accommodate those
requests and with that I will sfand for any questions you may have.
De Weerd: Council, any questions for staff at this time?
Bird: I have none, Mayor.
De Weerd: Okay. Is the applicant here? Hi.
Meyers: Thank you, Mayor.
De Weerd: If you would, please, state your. name and addresses for the record.
Meyers: Todd Meyers. 645 Hickory Lane. I work for Morgan Development and we are
the ones that are developing the -- what would be fhe new lot. This parcel was put
together, oh, roughly 20 years ago and that's when Meridian Dental was built in the mid
'80s and as you can see they do have some landscaping, which exceeded fhe
requirements at the time, but they do not meet today's requirements. And so I do have
some photos that I'd like to talk about that. The first lot here is 7/10ths of an acre and,
then, the one that has just been weeds and dirt for the last 25 years, is roughly about
4/10ths of an acre. And so you have a family dentist that will be right next to an
endodontist. So, the root canal doctor will be there. As you have seen on the plat, in
addition to the two lots, we did plat in easements that -- so, that we will use the existing
access. 'No additional access will be required. There is also, for Lot 2, it will be granted
access going across in front of Lot No. 1 to get out to 8th Street and, then, through
number two is the access for Lot No. 1 to access on through, just in case those access
points are ever changed, it has more filexibility or even just if the property further to the
east ever redevelops it gives the city more opfions as far as how to handle traffic flow
there. The other easement here is for parking for Lot No. 1, as may be seen on the
photo fhat that's where they have been parking on top of that dirt for the last however
many years. Being a family dentist, fihey need a lot of parking. The endodontist has its
required parking and all of its parking it needs near the street frontage. As mentioned
earlier, the lot number one's parking does not meet -- or landscaping does not meet
today's standards. I did go over and take some photos and so I'd like to enter those into
the record, if I could.
De Weerd: Okay. Can you put those up on the overhead?
Bird: Madam Mayor'?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
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ti July 1, 2008
~ Page 9 of 34
~
Bird: Could I ask Mr. Meyers a question?
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Meyers: Yes.
Bird: Your drive through, that is a-- that's a driveway for the duplex or four-plex there
next to it. You will shut that off on the east end there, won't you? There is no way they
can come out right there?
Meyers: There is -- there is a chain link fence that goes right there, Councilman.
Bird: You will leave that there so they can't come out?
Meyer: Yes.
Hood: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I'll still work on #his. I have got it to pop
up, I just need to figure out how to get it on the screen up there and with these dual
monitors I haven't worked that in awhile, so give me a second or if you have -- I can
pass these around as well. I will work on it, but it may take a minute if I'm able to make
it work.
De Weerd: Okay.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
~ De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Bird.
Bird: While he's standing up here, I-- I am quite familiar with this corner. Their existing
landscaping on that dentist office there I fhink is very nice. I realize it don't -- isn't up,
, probably, to our standards of today, but I think iYs very nice and very attractive corner
for us. I know you're going to landscape over in front of Lot 2. Do that up to standards
at this point.
i
Meyers: Yes. Councilman, on Lot No. 2 I believe we were required to have about two
trees going across here. We have four trees and, really, close to about a hundred
bushes fhat go in that area. To the north we have four more trees. And there is only
two windows fihat look to the north, but those four trees will do a greaf job buffering the
residential to fhe north. ,
Bird: Personally, I have no problem wifh the existing landscaping on Lot 1. Lot 2 they
can bring it up to our existing standards now as fhey do it.
De Weerd: While you're trying to figure that out, if you will kind of tell us what you're
requesting for consideration.
Meridian City Council
July 1, 2008
Page 10 of 34
Meyers: As you look at those photos, of course, you will see that it doesn't meet the
widths that you would have today. However, the nice thing is they are 25 year old trees
and so you may not have the landscaping on the ground, but you definitely have it up in
the air. And so you're going to be able to see fhe ones fhat are going along that ten foot
wide strip along the sidewalk. Those trees overhang the cars. Now, how nice would
that have been over this past weekend with how hot that sun was to have been parked
underneafh shade. And, fhen, on the corners you can see here -- this is at the corner of
8th Street and Cherry, you can see there we do meet the requirement and we exceed it
and it also helps wifih clear sight triangle. A little bit harder to see off of the east
entrance, but, again, that landscape island comes all fhe way to fhe rear of that car and,
again, there is a big mature tree there. So, as you're driving down Cherry, you're going
to have, basically, the image of a larger landscaped area. The mature trees in this area
here, you can see fhem off this photo, if you look real close, you can see that they
overhang the rear of those cars. In addition, there is mature landscaping in front of the
building, which -- I mean I guess if there was -- if we had to change, we'd end up
removing fhose trees to push everything to the north, so that we could get the
landscaping down here along the street. But I think what -- how the trees have
matured, it really has come out looking very nice. The other thing you can't see
because of the red line here, is there are some large evergreen bushes and so as
vehicles pull in here, especially during the wintertime when you have dark more
firequently, headlights are going to hit those bushes and so it really does a nice job to
buffer the residenfiial.
Bird: Madam Mayor'?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: That's at least ten feet there before you hit the parking lot, if not maybe a little
more.
Meyers: Yeah. It's --
Bird: And we want to remember that corner is very -- during the school year is
pedestrian occupied pretty heavy, because fhat is -- a middle school sits right across --
caddy corner across from that building and that corner is. So, they have got that
cleaned, so you can see -- you have good, good view to the northwest coming from the
east and, of course, from the west you got good views. So, I think it's attractive,.
according to myself. ~
Meyers: The other thing, if I could, Councilman, is on 8th Street, which leads into the
residential area, we do exceed the requirement and, again, we have mature trees that
are over on that side of the building. ,
Bird; You're all grass back there, aren't you?
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July 1, 2008
Page 11 of 34
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: My comments would be along the same lines as Councilman Bird. While I
agree with the current code, and its applicability where. ever we can get it, this already
does have mature landscaping that fits in nicely. To really solve the problem and bring
it up, you'd almost have to have them move the building back about ten feet. So, I don't
think there is anything gained by changing fhat portion and I agree with -- on building lot
two, if that's what you call it, but that should comply, but I'm happy to waive it on Lot 1, if
that's what you have offered.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, we will go ahead and if -- do you have any further
comments? We will go ahead and hear the rest of the public testimony, if there is any,
and if we can get what you had to show up on the screen, we will try to continue to do
that. Okay. This is a publia hearing. Is there anyone who would like to provide
testimony on this application? ,
Baird: Madam Mayor, perhaps we should offer to show those pictures to anybody who
wants to see them, so we can just move forward and then --
Zaremba: We did have the opportunity to see the hard copies and they are right here
with fhe clerk, if anybody wants to see them.
De Weerd: Is there any member who would like to see these pictures?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Having heard staff and applicant testimony and given the public the
opportunity to testify, I move that we close the public hearing on Item 10, SHP 08-005.
Borton: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to close fihe public hearing on Item 10.
All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd: Any discussion? If not, do I have a motion?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
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July 1, 2008
Page 12 of 34
Zaremba: I move we approve SHP 08-005 with the note that fhe landscaping on the
existing lot may be kept up in its current condition,
Borton: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve. Any discussion? Okay. Madam
Clerk, roll call.
Ro11-Call: Bicd, yea; Rountree, absent; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd: Item 11 is a public hearing on --
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
Basterrechea: Madam Mayor`?
Zaremba: Before you open that, I believe we have a police matter to deal with.
Basterrechea: Lieutenant Colaianni just came in and I have been notified that we are in
violation of an ordinance. Apparently we have a 49 year old grandmother who really
should be celebrating her birthday at home with her family and they are actually waiting
outside for you. So, if we have to escort you out, we will, but we don't want it to come to
that.
' Borton: She's resisting.
De Weerd: What a railroad job is that.
Zaremba: I think she needs the full attention.
Bird: Get out.
Borton: Come get her.
Bird: Good-bye.
De Weerd: Was that a choice?
Basterrechea: I had Lieutenant Colaianni bring his tazer just in case.
Bird: Have a good time.
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July 1, 2008
Page 13 of 34
Zaremba: Happy birthday and congratulations.
De Weerd: Okay. Since I haven't opened the publia hearing, I would say that Council,
just for the record, I am in favor of it.
Item 11: Public Hearing: AP 08-003 Request for City Council Review for an
Appeal of Director's Determination to deny alternative compliance to allow
a portion of the former ldaho Truss site to be used for shared parking for
the Broadwav Inteqrated Proiect (CZC 08-018) by Ward Schwider - 130
E. Broadway Avenue:
Zaremba: Okay. Now that we are in compliance, I will open the public hearing on Item
No. 11, AP 08-003. We will begin with the staff report. Mr. Hood.
Hood: Thank you, Mr. Vice-President, Members of the Council. This item is an
application to appeal Anna's determinafiion for some off-site shared parking in Old
Town. As you can see on the map, we have highlighted the two sites that are in
question. The one in red actually includes the adjacent parcel, 130 and 132 East
Broadway and they are proposing to use some parking at the old Idaho Trust -- Idaho
Trust site for -- to meet the required parking. The applicant applied for the alternative
compliance, because they didn't want to provide the required on-site parking for the
subject mixed use project. The planning director denied the alternative compliance
request, because in Old Town the alternative to providing the on-site parking is to pay
the MDC in lieu fees. Anna was given the direcfiion by the Council and through the
resolution that was adopted last year to require all Old Town projects to either provide a
combination of providing on site and in lieu fees or just provide all on site. That is the
alternative in Old Town. So, her decision was based on that -- those finro things.
Shared off-site parking was not an option, so she denied the application. The applicant
has appealed that decision to the City Council. So, with that I will stand for any
questions.
Zaremba: Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none.
Zaremba: All right. Thank you. Is the applicant here? It's your turn. If you will, please,
begin by stating your name and your address for the record.
Schwider: Hi. My name is Ward Schwider. I'm the applicant, the owner of 130 and 132
projects in downtown Meridian. My address is 1716 North 32nd in Boise. The question
here -- the issue here is the fact that we have finro sites, 130 and 132, in downtown
Meridian. 132 is the old McFadden Market and the Meridian Exchange Bank and it's an
existing building that -- I guess I have a picture right here. And we want to rehab this
existing -- existing building right here and, then, add on 130, which is a new four story
building right next to it. We have all the engineering done and we want to get that under
construction. But the in lieu fees -- well, my partner is a co-owner of the property across
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July 1, 2008
Page 14 of 34
the street, fhe Idaho Trust property, which is to the soufh of us. We hold control of 230
car parking spaces. We wish to park -- t'his building required parking on that site and
such. We would kind of maintain the urban character of Broadway. We would have,
you know, the old historic buildings and this new 30 foot wide new building on that
street. The goals of the urban development that -- as I see it in Meridian, is that you
want to develop a, you know, compact downtown core. You don't want to have a
building and, then, a parking lot and, then, a building and, then, a parking lot. And we
have the parking. It's across the street to the south against fhe railroad tracks. We see
that that's really our opportunity to put the parking against the railroad and do a parking
garage or just share it with fhe -- with the theater. We have, you know, two uses that
are going to be pretty complimentary across the street. And the site that we have, the
130 site, lends itself really well to a retail development, not a parking lot. It's only 30
feet wide. It could hardly park any cars, because you need 44 feet to get an economy
of parking spaces. So, I really wish that we could park across the street there and,
fhen, build that site up and make it kind of fit the urban character of downtown. So,
that's kind of my hopes on this property. And I'll let my partner speak and he will give
you more information about the Union Pacific leasehold and some of those other
details.
McCarthy: Hi. I'm John McCarthy, 7204 Brentwood Drive in Boise, Idaho. I'm a part
owner of the fee simple property that's across the street. As well, I'm a managing
member of the LLC that is in control of the Idaho Trust property. They are partners with
Idaho Trust of the Union Pacific leasehold. What we have submitted to Planning and
Zoning was parking with a shared parking -- provide parking for fhe 130 building and
provide within that leasehold is never taken away for any reason, that within that shared
parking agreement was a stipulation that the in lieu fees that were already agreed upon
through MDC, would have to be paid. So, in our mind we have that requirement for the
parking covered in case the leasehold for any reason -- I know there is questions about
how long the leasehold actually is, whefher it's -- right now if's one year with an
automatic renewal, although there is a clause within the -- the boilerplate lease that gets
down to 30 days. And that's up for -- although that lease has been in place -- Idaho
Trust has had it for 30 years and nothing's ever happened. But, anyway, back to the --
back to the parking agreement. If that was ever to happen that the owners of 130, 132,
and Meridian Exchange Bank building, would have 60 days to pay MDC the in lieu fees.
So, that's kind of -- and all we are asking for as owners within Old Town is that we
would have the right as everybody else in the City of Meridian to use the alternafive
compliance procedures in the code, which is 11-3-C-7, to provide an alternative
compliance, instead of what the resolution says that you guys -- 07-583.
Bird: Mr. Presidenf?
Zaremba: Councilman Bird.
Bird: Mr. McCarthy, I got a couple of questions. Has Union Pacific given whoever is
willing to -- has this property or -- whether it's Idaho Trust, whoever has the lease with
them for the one year with a 30 day pull out -- written approval of this for parking?
Meridian City Council
July 1, 2008
Page 15 of 34
McCarthy: Oh, yeah. They understand. I--
Bird: You have got it written. You have got written --
McCarthy: I have not received it yet. I gave them a proposal back in March that I
actually wanted a 25 year lease with a 25 year renewal.
Bird: But you have not got it back.
McCarthy: Not yet.
Bird: Okay. So, you're, basically, working under ldaho Trust, which is one year, with a
30 day default.
McCarthy: And that's exacfly what shared parking --
~ Bird: And, fhen, they can pull out. Okay. The in lieu fee is quite heavy. You say that if
' UP pulls out, you'll have -- you will, then, pay the in lieu.
McCarthy: Within the shared parking agreement on --
Bird: Are we going to put fhis in a trust, so that -- here is what happens. What happens
if we get down the road, sign that kind of deal, UP pulls that thing, you got a building up,
you have got tenants in there, and the cash flow isn't to where you can pay the in lieu.
And it's -- I can't remember what it is. I'll state right up firont I never voted for in lieu
parking. I think it stinks, but that's my personal opinion.
McCarthy: That's the -- Councilman Bird, the -- on that one, because we got lucky
because there is so much exisfing, it's only 120,000 dollars. For example, The Hub
that's next door that has the parking attached, if fhey ever go -- that in lieu fee will be
over 500 grand. And wifhin the in lieu fee is that the city has requested the developer to
pay that up front, before even zoning compliance, which we think is an undue burden.
Now, if something has to be worked up to how that -- fhose funds are paid, there is a lot
of -- there is a lot of city's around the country have them staggered on installments.
Then, if UP ever pulled back, which they haven't yet in 30 years, there is some
precedent there, then, the funds will be there.
Bird: But in the same token, right now that property is under agreement that UP could
pull it within 30 days. I mean even though you have applied for fihe 25 year lease or
whatever it is --
McCarthy: I'm not an attorney, but that's how I--
Bird: And I'm not an attorney either.
Meridiam City Council
July 1, 2008
Page 18 of 34
McCarfhy: I'd have to defer to Mr. Baird.
Bird: B'ut I-- I would feel a lot lot lot more comfortable if you had that 25 year written
deal from UP.
McCarfhy: Well --
Bird: Because UP pretty well can do what UP wants to do.
McCarthy: Well, Councilman Bird, it's not even fhe 25 years in my mind, if we are going
to talk about it. It's the -- actually, it's 13-B, which is the 30 day. If that's goes away, to
request of them that they adjust ~that somehow to where it does not say 30 days, which
is making everybody uncomfortable, the one year least with automatic renewal, is good,
too. Not good for me to get financing at all, you know, and they have told us that that 25
year probably won't be fhere. So, there is going to be -- I have been told that it probably
will be somewhere in between, from an existing one year least, automatic renewals, to
-- not to 25 year. For example, in the past Lumber's had a five year lease. They had a
five year lease with automatic renewals.
Bird: But they still had fihe 30 day --
McCarthy: And I would agree with you on --
Bird: And you're trying to get rid of the 30 days.
McCarthy: Yes. But that's a secondary issue tied to the appeal. We don't want to just
have the right -- you're telling -- if the Council tells me that if that goes away, at least I
have the right through the -- that resolution that we changed it that Anna can say, well,
okay, you do have an alternative compliance procedure. Right now the people in Old
Town do not -- if I had a fee simple -- if that was fee simple property across the street, I
couldn't use it for parking.
Bird: I agree.
McCarthy: That's -- fihere is two issues. That's one issue. The second one is, granted,
the 30 day clause. It's not really fhe lease term, it's the clause.
Borton: Mr. Zaremba, question.
Zaremba: Go ahead.
Borton: I think it's awesome what you're trying to and you really are boxed in. This is a
tough one. And I agree with Councilman Bird. Unfortunately, this -- the circumstances
here and -- and we are just fooling ourselves if we don't acknowledge the problem that
Councilman Bird suggested could happen if -- I mean it's real and it's -- there is no way
-- there is no way out of it short of you trusting fhe funds. Now, one option could be --
Meridian Ciry Council
July 1, 2008
Page 17 of 34
my comfortable level could change, if you can -- fhey have responded back to you and
you have indicated that you think fhey are going to provide -- you know, one and 25
years. That's a huge improvement issue. I mean to accomplish that would be amazing,
because it improves our comfort level and the property across the street would remain
as viable parking. I mean I think you have identified an interesting concern with it.
Granted, you know, is there another alternative compliance? The intent is the in lieu of
fee. It serves a specific purpose. I know Mr. Wardle, with the downtown development
corporafiion is here. He might add comment to fhat. You know, fhe concern that
Councilman Bird raised is -- I don't know how to get through it, you know. If the property
goes away across the street, the ownership of this project has gone, you have tenants
in there, who pays fhe fee, short of it being trusted. So, that's got -- I just throw that out.
That's what I'm wrestling with it.
McCarthy: Well, then, I would come back -- then, the Council is telling me and all the
other owners in Old Town, that 11-3 alternative compliance in your ordinance doesn't
exist for us, that we can't come to the Planning Commission and ask for an alternative
compliance to provide, even if that was fee simple across the street. I can't do that,
because your resolution says it's on-site parking or in lieu fees. So, that means all
those homeowners in the Old Town district do not have the right to use 11-3-C-7. It
doesn't exist. You guys wiped it off. That's all we are asking for. There is two points.
Give us the right to use that ordinance, then, should -- then, we can address the other
problem. It's two stages. , I understand there is a problem with the 30 day lease, but
give us the right to provide some alternative compliance as well.
Borton: Mr. Vice-President. And I agree that is probably another way to look at it, but
the difference is what you have is you don't own fhis ground. This isn't a property owner
who has got, you know, sole and specifiic control over an adjacent parcel and want to
, use that parcel and maybe we need to craft some solufions for those situations. I think
you're right. I wish this were that case and if there wasn't a structure to try to allow that,
maybe we can look into doing it. But we don't have that here. And I wish we did.
~ You're close. You might get -- you know, a longer leasehold will get you closer. It's not
fee simple. It's not the best. But, you know, 25 years is phenomenal. With what you
have right now -- and maybe this gets tabled and let you continue to work through UP
and -- and let you try and resolve that, but if that -- I don't disagree with you. I
~ understand the problem. At least just talking to myself. But under these circumstances
I don't know how you clear that hurdle today.
McCarthy: I guess procedurally, then, if -- 130 would have to come back through again
with a CZC application if the lease term -- lease terms were different and go through the
whole procedure again, because that's what this is about, the 130 building. We are set
-- Ward has designed it -- we are going to move ahead with the bank and the market
and fhere will be a parking lot for 130. There will not be a building there, because we --
because we are restoring that bank and that market, we have enough parking for fhe
condos and it's ready to go ahead. That CZC has been approved and we are ready to
go to permit, so, then, the city is going to look at a parking lot, a 30 foot wide strip sitting
in fihere until this issue can be solved. Not only the alternative compliance issue, but
Meridian City Council
July 1, 2008
Page 18 of 34
also the Union Pacific issue. So, if tabling this is the best thing to do, then, I'm sure we
will be agreeable with that.
Zaremba: I think you said this, but tell me again -- on the Idaho Trust property or lease
hold or whatever it is, you had notified Union Pacific that non-Idaho Trust people will be
parking there and they have not responded yet or that's okay with them?
McCarthy: I sent them a proposal in March, what we intended to do with the property.
. The exisfiing building is here. They would have the majority of the parking and use fhe
rest of it for public or private parking and I'm waiting for that response. If's gone up and
down the chain of command at UP I guess a lot of times.
Zaremba: I know other people that have tried to deal wifh them and it's not easy.
McCarthy: Yeah. They said it's coming. I don't know -- I don't know when. It could be
-- it could be tomorrow, it could be two weeks from now.
Borton: Mr. Vice-President?
Zaremba: Councilman Borton.
Borton: Mr. McCarthy, I don't -- I don't know if I gave you the chance to -- or I might
have skipped it if you said it -- to answer the question that Councilman Bird brought up
with. There is a unique fact situation which makes this one problematic, you know,
unless you can help us craft some solufion that addresses it, other than, you know, just
take a risk and try it. And one of the examples was -- was trust in the -- in the -- I don't
know whether it was a letter of credit of whatnot, the in lieu of fees, I mean if that's an
option, that changes things. At least it helps answer fhe unanswered question. So, I
don't know if I gave you a chance to answer that. I'd love to have you try and help
there.
McCarthy: Well, I have some problems with -- I guess that's another discussion for
another day with MDC, I guess, on the in lieu fees.
Borton: Okay.
McCarthy: If I'm providing parking on a piece of property that I eifher have a fee simple
ownership of or a leasehold interest in, I don't think I should not have to be paying in lieu
fees, if I'm providing the parking for it. Almost exactly like The Hub that was approved --
The Hub -- they have a parking lot next door. They are not paying in lieu fees. They
will if fhat parking lot ever goes away, but right now, since that lot is contiguous to his
development, he's not paying in lieu fees. Now, whether fee simple or a leasehold
interest, it's an interest and I have the same right as any other development. I think if
the leasehold was different -- if the 30 day -- let's say the 30 day clause goes away, I
Meridian City Council
July 1, 2008
Page 19 of 34
have fihe same rights, leasehold right, or same rights to parking as The Hub does,
though he's fee simple and mine's leasehold.
Zaremba: One of the things we consistently struggle wifh is how to administer things
fhat turn out to be out the odds ducks. It's nice if everything followed the ordinance and
could be smooth like that, but maybe I need some help either from Mr. Baird or Mr.
Hood. If we were to go saying that you could use this alternative for now, but you had
to have a clause that if this alternative went away, then, you owed the in lieu, what
mechanism would there be to administer or trigger that or for anybody to know that that
was in there six and a half years from now or ten years from now?
Baird: Mr. Vice-President, Members of the Council, I have had a conversation with the
~ planning department about this. I have reviewed a proposed shared parking agreement
and that's the big question with the planning department and with the legal department
is how do you track it, how do you catch it, how do you enforce it when it's clearly going
to provide a hardship after the building has been penciled out and pro formed without
, including these fees and, then, you have got tenants and it's a huge additional expense.
It has to ~ be provided up front and I think Councilmember Bird proposed the only
~ reasonable solution is to trust it or some other letter of credit that could be extended.
And while I have the floor, I wanted to clear up a legal matter regarding Resolution 07-
583. That resolution I have in front of ine, it merely provides direction to the planning
director regarding granting of alternative compliance. It directs her to only use those
two alternatives of on site or in lieu fee. The appeal right exists as you have it before
~' you tonight. It's within your power to provide those alternative compliance with the facts
~ that are in front of you. So, nobody's rights to alternative compliance has been taken
~ away, it's just elevated to you as a decision maker in cases like this. So, I just -- I
, wanted to take that legal issue and give you our -- how we view it.
Zaremba; Thank you.
Baird: If anyone wants to look at the resolution, I have a copy of it here.
Zaremba: Any other questions for fhe applicant?
Bird: I would and I'd like to hear some other public testimony.
Zaremba: Thank you. This is a public hearing and welcome anybody else that would
like to -- I have a sign-up sheet. Claire Bowman would be next.
Bowman: Good evening, Members of the Council. I'm Claire Bowman. I live at 4400
West Legacy Lane, Meridian. I am one of the two managing partners, along with John
McCarfhy, for fhe Meridian Historic OId Town, LLC, which is a partnership among Idaho
Trust, John McCarthy's company Ironac, and, mine Avalon Ventures. I have several
points to make. I'd like to make them from a larger perspective than focusing in on
these two pieces of ground for the moment. We all recognize that parking is critically
short in downtown. When I was the administrator for the urban renewal agency, solving
Meridian City Council
July 1, 2008
Page 20 of 34
that parking issue was fihe number one to do item on my list for the entire two years --
two and a half years I worked in that role. The day on which Councilman Borton made
fhe mofion to adopt fhe in lieu of fees, presentation and fhe entire discussion was that
this was to be offered as an additional alternative for downtown development, not as
exclusive alternative. I believe if you read the preamble to that -- to fhat resolution, you
will find fhat it says that in the preamble. Your resolution is contradictory. What that
resolution accomplishes, whether it's -- whether it's rights taken away or not, it restricts
the opportunities of -- if it's enforced or if it's applied, as you gave your guidance to the
planning director, it operates as if it eliminates some of the other alternatives that a
developer out on the corner of Fairview and Eagle has the option, if he wants to put
parking passed down let's say Fairview, passed someone else's property, that would be
an altecnative compliance where he is able to do that. Or at least he would have the
option of convincing Anna that it is right to do that. We want the same option. We want
the option of trying to convince her fhat we can solve these legal issues that we are
talking about here. Right now her denial is not on the merits of the issue, it's on the
legalities related to that resolution. Our request is that you remand fhis to the planning
director for rehearing or reassessment without the limitations that in lieu fees are the
only alternative compliance. Let me go a bit further. The ground that Idaho Trust is on
is zoned Old Town. There will not be anymore industrial uses on that property now that
Idaho Trust has moved out. If they were to abandon their lease, they would be
required, within a certain period of time, to take down all the buildings on it and leave
the ground as it was 30 plus year ago. They currently carry the value of those buildings
as a major piece of their asset portfolio. So, they cannot afford not to pay the lease
right now. They are in a difficult situation. They lose a significant portion of their asset
base and they have to pay to get rid of it if they don't follow fhrough on that lease. The
30 day clause, as I understand it -- Counsel Baird can correct me if I'm wrong, but that
30 day clause is only triggered in the event that the railroad wants to reclaim fihe
property for railroad uses. Romans have had the Frontier Tire since the early 1950s.
Lumberman's 1960. Lumberman's have had theirs for 40 plus years in the earlier
manifestations as well, at least some portions of that. The railroad has not opted to take
fhat action to require that to be done. Our work with Union Pacific -- John was much
more silent about the options than I would choose to be and that is why we have had a
number of ongoing discussions with the folks from the regional office of UP. Two weeks
ago we were promised a letter fhat would state the -- their willingness to negotiation or
willingness to resef some terms. Last week we were promised it again. And last Friday
we were promised it this week. The fact that they are willing to make those promises
now and put a very short trigger on it, tells us that we are close to the break through
point on that. Clearly, if we had a 50 year lease on this property, the Council should not
have an issue wifh any shared parking arrangement on there. We have a one year
lease. That's a problem. I understand that. We think if's a problem. It's a problem for
financing. But yesterday morning we had a banker tell us that within -- with a five year
one time renewable lease, he fihought we aould get bank financing on the theater
complex to redo that. We could certainly get private financing with those terms. We are
that close. But we need to have our proposals heard on the merits of fhe proposal,
rather than on the denial of the option to use shared parking. That's enough. I think I
have gone over my time and I apologize.
Meridian City Council
July 1., 2008
Page 21 of 34
Zaremba: Council, any questions?
Borton: No.
Bird: I have no questions.
Zaremba: Thank you. Also signed up, Dolores Lisby. From the audience she says
she's been covered. All right. Thank you. This is a public hearing. Anybody else care
to testify? If I may put the executive director of the MDC on the spot, would you
comment, please.
Wardle: Thank you, Mr. Vice-Chairman. Shawn Wardle with Meridian Development
Corporation, 2239 East Greiner Street in Meridian.. At your request I'll provide just a
little bit of addifional information. I want to clear up a couple of items and the first of
which is the applicant stated, they currently have the ability to move forward with their
project without providing parking on site by paying an in lieu fee to the Meridian
Development Corporation. So, that is currently their option. The planning director has
made the determination that that is their only option and so that's the issue, really,
before this body. I can tell you that both from fhe Development Corporafion standpoint
and the planning director's standpoint, it will help to have that clear decision on that
specific issue. As you know, the current in lieu fee is 10,000 dollars per parking space
and we process that at the level. I can tell you that 130 and 132 East Broadway have
asked for a variance. There is a specific requirement in our in lieu fee policy that no one
property owner can ask for more fhan 50 percent of their parking to be waived with the
fee. We have processed that application and they have the proper procedures in place
to be able to pay the in lieu fee as of today. So, the specific issue at question, I think,
which both the Development Corporation and staff would like to know is are the other
alternative compliance avenues available to property owners within fihe downtown core.
And, then, a separate issue, which I don't -- that Claire and John have both really
delineated is -- is a leasehold interest on this specific property available for that
alternative compliance and I think that's a direction that the planning department is --
would consider if direction were given that were alternative compliance measures
available. I would like to clear up just one additional item and that is reference to a
project across the street at 2nd and Broadway known as The Hub project is -- provides
all required parking spaces on site as part of the development, so fhat the issue of in
lieu is not necessarily applicable to phase one of the proposed project. They have
proposed spaces and, in addition, some others that MDC is considering for public
parking. Wifh fhat~ I'd stand for any questions.
Zaremba: Thank you. Would you state a preference as to whether you and Meridian
Development Corp would prefer to see the property 130 be a parking lot or another new
building.
Wardle: I can tell you that given the downtown design guidelines, fhe streetscape
standards, that we would prefer to see all properties fronting the public right of way as
Meridian City Council
July 1, 2008
Page 22 of 34
dense as possible and providing opportunities for live, work, and play. The one thing
that we are going through currently that I can tell you is fhe downtown design guidelines
do not call for parking to be adjacent to the sidewalk. In fact, we are processing some
conditional use permits, because the preference is actually to have that parking either
behind the building or in some other location. And so our preference at the
Development Corporation would be to see a viable building full of tenants, people doing
business, living, and participating in downtown. Was that clear enough?
Zaremba: With parking behind it.
Wardle: The downtown -- I didn't give you a preference on parking. The downtown
design guidelines call for if there is any parking for it to be behind.
Zaremba: So, they couldn't do that on 130, though. If they need 130 to be the parking
for 132, it sounded like that whole piece of property would be a parking lot. There
wouldn't be a building on the front of it and parking at the back.
Wardle: I don't know that --
Zaremba: I'll call you back up in a minute, but -- okay.
Wardle: I guess your question is we would prefer to have buildings --
Zaremba: Have a building.
Wardle: -- have a building with businesses operating or people living there, as opposed
to surface parking lots. The ultimate goal is to have density and, then, at some point to
have some elevated or additional parking available.
Zaremba: That does answer my question.
Wardle: Okay.
Zaremba: Thank you. Councilman Borton.
Borton: Thank you, Mr. Vice-President. I think I missed the focus of the question and
the request. For me it is very clear that the in lieu fee is specifically an additional
opportunity. It is not in -- to replace other -- I think Claire mentioned it. He's right on the
money. That was the intent and I remember MDC there was a discussion that really all
fihis is is an additional tool. You don't have to use it, but it's just something else. Really,
there is no harm to development, it just provides another way to try to satisfy the parking
requirements. So, to the extent that's the question and that's vague -- and I think it
might be when I read fhat, that there is one provision in the resolution which I could
understand why the planning department -- yeah, I think you're referencing number
three -- could see it being, you know, on street or in lieu, as either/or. I don't think that
Meridian Giry Council
July 1, 2008
Page 23 of 34
was the ~intent. That's at least my recollection and I think that's why the preamble
makes reference to the desire to create an additional opportunity to address parking.
Zaremba: And Mr. Baird appears to have a comment.
Baird: Thank you, Mr. Vice-President and Members of the Council, Councilmember
Borton. Like I mentioned, this is merely a resolution. It doesn't have the force of
ordinance. It doesn't overrule your in lieu -- or your alternative compliance provisions of
your ordinance, it mereiy gives direction to fhe pianning director that at her level, either
these of two choices. If the applicant doesn't like those choices, the appeal is here in
front of you to make a choice to either remand it with specific instructions or to fashion
alternative compliance right here from the dias. That's fihe way I see it.
Borton: Mr. Vice-President. Is going forward -- I would either -- does the resolution get
amended or if that needs to be clarified, I can see how the staff wouldn't have the right
direction to address that, but if our goal is to make sure that developers know that the in
lieu of fee is truly an additional opportunity and not as this or that -- I mean what would
be the mechanism if we went that way to clarify that?
Hood: Mr. Vice-President, if I may hopefully answer Councilman Borton's question.
With it being just the direction, I fhink it's going to be very hard for the director -- if I'm
looking at this as an alternative compliance to approve anything, knowing that there is
another alternative being the in lieu fee. So, even if the resolution is amended to not
say in black and white either provide it on site or you pay fhe in lieu, it's going to be
really hard to convince us that whatever you're proposing is better than an in lieu fee. If
it's not on site, what's better than on site? Nothing. But an in lieu fee, in my mind,
would be the next best choice probably pretty much in every instance. So, you're going
to be seeing these anyways on appeal, even if you change the resolution, in my mind.
It's going to be -- again, it's just going to be difficult for us to approve any other type of
alternative. I can't envision an alternative that's going to be better than on site or in lieu.
That's just my opinion. So, maybe there is something, but --
Borton: Mr. Vice-President?
Zaremba: Councilman Borton.
Borton: I guess to answer the second part of the question, which might answer that, if
the in lieu of fee is an additional opportunity and it gets remanded with a gray area back
to staff to try to determine, you know -- if it's not in lieu of, what the heck is it? If there is
going to be any bright line rules, you know, a 30 day lease doesn't get there and that's,
you know, where we are today, maybe that gets fixed and that would be great and
maybe it's a year or five years, you know, if this were a fee simple developer across the
street, we might be having a totally different discussion. There might be an opportunity
for an alternative compliance using property across the street. A 25 year lease gets you
pretty close. A 30 day doesn't get you there. So, I'm just thinking out loud telling you
my perspective. If it got remanded, the planning department understood that alternative
Meridian City Council
July 1, 2008
Page 24 of 34
or in lieu of fee isn't the only other option. What they have now doesn't -- doesn't satisfy
my interest and my concerns and the concerns that Councilman Bird raised.
Zaremba: I would guess -- and maybe this is a question for Mr. Wardle -- that at some
point alternative compliance would run out as an option. I mean there is only so many
parking spaces that somebody can get across the street or down the street to be
alternafive and the 10th or 12th developer is going to run into a brick wall on that and
either have to have it on site or pay the in lieu of, but -- am I thinking of that correctly?
Wardle: Mr. Vice-President, I think to address your question -- the one thing that I
would say is the in lieu of fee, when it was adopted by the Meridian Development
Corporation, was -- was looked at as a tool for developers that were specifically
landlocked at their property, but wanted to build denser projects, which is a goal for the
Development Corporation within the downtown core is to have additional densities in
downtown. And so the fee would allow fhem, rather than to go out and acquire
addifional sites or take some portion of their property as has been proposed here and
create a parking space fhat they could, then, pay that fee. And fhe Development
Corporation would, at some point in time, provide additional spaces. Now, the one thing
about fhe in lieu of fee is it doesn't necessarily mean that those spaces are provided to
that specific development. I mean it doesn't mean that those spaces are provided
instantaneously, that~ the fee does not get the developer a parking space right away.
So, it's more of an overall picture. And that's really what it was designed for, it was
those people who eifher, one, chose to go with a denser project or for those that were in
a difficult situation and could not provide additional parking, that's what the fee was
really designed for. Did I answer your question?
Zaremba: Uh-huh.
Hood: And, Mr. Vice-President, just to maybe follow up on that point, I think -- there is a
limited supply of parking downtown and that's why, again, probably at this point,
anyways, the Council should be the decision making body, because I don't know what
other direction you could give the planning department to say in this case do that, in that
case do this. I don't know what it is. So, it really does need to be appealed, we will do
the best we can at our level, but if they are not happy with eifher providing it on site or --
they can come and they can explain to you why it makes more sense to do whatever
fhey are doing and you can look at it on a case-by-case basis. And I think that's why
the system isn't broke the way it's set up now. They are having their day to explain
something better and if you say, you know what, that money is not befter spent. Across
the street would be great if you own the property in fihis case or whatever, you know,
ofher cases may be. Again, if fihey are fhree blocks away, do we approve them for
parking? And, then, we have to track that we approved six spaces over there and four
spaces over hear and ten over there -- I mean it could be a nightmare. So, I just don't
know how you -- if you can give us that direction, that's great, but I don't know how you
craft language like that.
Meridian City Coumcil
July 1, 2008
Page 25 of 34
Zaremba: Thank you. Before fhe applicant returns, any other testimony from anybody?
Sir, come ahead. You need to be on the microphone. And if you would, start with your
name and address.
Nielson: I'm sorry. My name is Roger Nielson and I live at 5377 EI Gato out here in
Meridian. I happen to be the property owner just north of 132 on the alley way adjacent
to the 127 Club and Meridian Electronics. I have run a machine shop in fhere for 20
years. And I personally have been blindsided by this in lieu of fee. It's getting to the
point where I'm taking medical retirement and I'm trying to get an equity out of my
business. Okay. This whole downtown development project has almost devoided my
20 years of work. I am totally landlocked where I'm at. Okay. So, alterna#ive parking is
an absolute necessity. There is only 4,000 square feet on the portion of lot that I own.
There is no way to provide -- other than the couple of spots that we have in the
driveway now for overhead door access -- those are the only finro spots that are
available and if it was to turn to retail you couldn't have cars parked that close to the
front door of retail. And so the idea of totally eliminating fhe ability to have alternative
ideas, other than doubling the price of construction, you know, by this in lieu of fee,
okay, is extremely damaging to the guys that have been down here working -- you
know, the Murray brothers have owned their building for a couple of generations.
Kenny Thompson across the street, him and his dad have owned that building for a
couple generations. Kenny's in a little bit worse shape than I am. You know, he gave
up his parking space with some promises and -- and he's been left hanging. Now, he's
on a small little island and the value of his place, according to this project that's going on
down here that we are all trying to bring up to speed in our own minds, has left us in a
terrible shape and has taken huge amounts of equity out of our pocket that we have
worked for years to try to attain. And so I don't have any solufions, other fhan for those
of us who don't have the opportunity to lease something -across the street or anything
and we are isolated in our own little patch, we are stuck, we are landlocked, and
whatever alternafive you come up with, would be really nice if -- I mean landowners like
us and business owners like us would be taken into considerafion. Okay. Any
questions? I don't have any solution for you, but --
Zaremba: Thank you. Anybody else care to testify? All right. We will have the
applicant come back up again .and -- talk into the microphone and state your name
again, please.
Schwider: Ward Schwider again. I'm the owner of 132 and 130. I have before you a
diagram of what our plan is. Okay. Here we go. Here is -- our game plan right now is
t~he parking is really right off of the alley right here for the condos above and right now
the building, the 130 that's fhere, we are going to demolish it and just make it into just a
patio space right now, so we don't really have a building, but fhat's what we want is four
stories of vertical integrated, you know, condos and people living down here. What we
have right now is just a dumpster and a driveway. That's all it is right now. And so what
we are asking for is that the 3-C-7 -- I mean it's already in the code, that we can use the
off-site parking that's already in fihe code.
Meridian City Coumcil
July 1, 2008
Page 26 of 34
McCarthy: This is zoning compliance --
Zaremba: Speak into the microphone, please.
McCarthy: This is the -- this is the zoning compliance. There was two of them that went
wifh these two properties. The one that was tonight, which was zoning compliance for
130. The zoning compliance for these finro pieces of property has been approved. This
plan is already going on it, so that's the way it is until I guess your acfion, I don't know
what the procedure is after that.
Zaremba: Just a question if I may while you're here. And the last speaker kind of
helped me think of this. I see an opportunity for a lot more parking on the Idaho Trust
property. Is there any thought that you might make it available to your neighbors for a
smail fee or are you able to do that or does that confuse Union Pacific too much?
McCarthy: No. That's the intent of the shared parking agreement. That's goes to --
Zaremba: Yeah: But you have presented it for your own building, but there is other
buildings wifhin walking distance of that property, like the fellow that just tesfiified and --
McCarthy: Yeah. 11-3-C-7 say anywhere alternative compliance and parking within a
fhousand feet, so -- and our long-term plan, given the lease term of UP, is to put parking
structures against the railroad tracks, so -- public and private parking.
Zaremba: Thank you.
Holman: Just a moment. I'm sorry. Excuse me. Vice-President, could we get a copy --
since that plan was discussed on the record, what you're showing, we are going to need
a copy of that or ifi we can have that one for the record.
Zaremba: Everything that's presented to Council we have to keep.
Holman: Yeah. Thank you.
Zaremba: If you show it to us we keep it, so -- Councilman Bird.
Bird:: I don't care which one answers it, but I'm in favor of your project. Your parking
across the street scares me. You know, it might go along for two or three years and,
then, UP gets something else. I could -- I could be fairly comfortable if you come back
in with fhis 30 day eviction notice gone from your lease and stuff like that. As it sits right
now, we -- we really don't have any guarantee down there. I'm probably the most
lenient person in town as far as parking, because I realize that a lot of these old
buildings and locations -- these small lots, 30 foot by 120 foot, was -- was a Meridian
downtown lot. Not going to get much parking on there. We want to jump start
downtown Meridian. In the same taken, the in lieu fee probably puts the cost of
construction to the point that it's not feasible to do, but I was voted down at both
Meridian City Council
July 1, 2008
Page 27 of 34
locations and so that's what we got. That's the law. Majority rules. So, if you could
come back with a guarantee from UP with that 30 day eviction notice gone, I could
certainly take a hard look at it.
Borton: Mr. Vice-President?
Zaremba: Councilman Borton.
Borton: To dove tail on that, if you came back wifh a letter of credit for the in lieu of fee,
I-- you could have a 30 day. I mean --
Bird: I agree with that, too.
Borton: Getting it from UP is pretty tough. I mean I-- I support the project and would
love it to go forward, but, you know, where we are sitting right now, you know, I'm still
stuck. And, again, I don't think in lieu of fee is the only alternative and it might be a
situation that these get appealed continually on a case by case and come back to us.
So, it clarifiies that, at least it's an additional level. It's not required, but if there is a way
to trust that, I think that's great. That might be a heck of a lot easier, unfortunately, than
getting anyfhing out of UP would. That would be my preference.
Zaremba: If we were to put this off again, continue it for a week or three weeks would
be the choices. Our meeting ~two weeks from now is a workshop where we wouldn't
have a public hearing, but --
McCarthy: Considering -- considering I have been talking to Union Pacific for almost
two years now, I think three weeks would be --
Zaremba: I didn't hear that. I'm sorry.
McCarthy: Considering I have been talking to Union Pacific for two years almost, I
would go for three weeks, instead of a week. Please.
Bird: They don't get excited.
Borton: Mr. Vice-President?
Zaremba: Councilman Borton.
Borton: Continuing it to try and get some of these things worked out, if that's three
weeks -- if that's the request.
McCarthy: That's fiine.
Zaremba: It would be July 22nd.
Meridian City Council
July 1, 2008
Page 28 of 34
Borton: July 22nd. I guess from my perspective I-- if the -- there is two ways to try and
resolve it is a long term lease with UP, which even a year might not be long enough for
me to feel comfortable, quite frankly. I think Claire mentioned maybe five, which might
allow financing to make this whole place blow up well, which would be great. So, just to
let you know up front, the longer the better. A year is pretty short, because it still is up
to what Councilman Bird said. On the other hand, if fhere is that trust, if there is that
letter of credit for in lieu of fees, then, a year is perfect. Thirty days, quite frankly.
Because, really, what you have done is you have secured the alternative compliance
and you're good to go by me. So, just to give you a heads up of where I'd love to see it
go is that letter of credit or a trust.
Zaremba: Just to chime in, that would certainly work for me.
Bird: Me, too.
Zaremba: Do we wish to have another comment from Mr. Wardle?
Wardle: Thank you, Mr. Vice-Chairman -- or Vice-President. Shaun Wardle, Meridian
Development Corporation. I think in terms of -- and not speaking for planning staff, but
I believe the applicanf's appeal was on a specific issue in terms of is this the only
alternative compliance and so to the extent that I understand the other issue with the
property and whether this is a proper alternative compliance, I believe the planning
director's determination was made simply because it was not in lieu of fee and so if you
can give at least some direcfion in this public setting -- I believe I heard Mr. Borton say
that it was only designed to be a tool in addition to certain things in the alternative
compliance code. If -- I think it would help planning staff, as well as the Development
Corporation, to understand that -- that the rest of the alternatives are opened up and I
believe that gets the applicant to where they need to be to work with planning staff, if I'm
getting a head nod, if you're so inclined. Rather than continue this entire item for three
weeks. Does that make sense?
Borton: Mr. Vice-President?
Zaremba: Councilman Borton.
Borton: It does procedurally. What we wouldn't want to do, I don't think, is -- is make a
determination here that says -- that grants the appeal and says in lieu of fees are not
the only means of alternative compliance. Off-site parking can be. Remand it back to
staff and staff says we don't know what the heck that means, because Council didn't
give us any guidance, so yo,u're denied, fhen, they appeal, and they come back to us
and say here is what we did -- so, in lieu of trying to go back and have it punt back up to
us, procedurally we can just continue it -- I mean I see what you're saying, but to get us
there and not have them have to go meet and set up staff to have meetings to go I don't
know what Council wants, should be a fair response.
Zaremba: My sense is that we are not answering that question tonight.
Meridian City Council
July 1, 2008
Page 29 of 34
Wardle: Okay. Thank you.
Zaremba: Guidance is suspended for finro weeks -- three weeks.
Bird: Mr. Vice-President?
Zaremba: Councilman Bird.
Bird: If the applicant don't need the last deal, I'll --
Zaremba: You do have the opportunity to have the last word always. Enough's been
said.
Bird: I would move that we continue this public hearing to July 22nd, 2008.
Borton: Second.
Zaremba: We have a motion and a second. All in favor say aye. Any opposed? That
was unanimous. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Zaremba: Thank you very much. Hopefully, we will have new information three weeks
from now. That -- gentlemen, that was the last item on our agenda for tonight. Is there
another one?
Bird: Mr. Vice-President, before we adjourn, we need to --
Zaremba: Oh, yes.
Bird: We need to discuss August 5th, I believe it is. Am I not right?
Borton: August 5th.
Bird: National Night Out.
Zaremba: Oh, yes. Okay.
Bird: Which traditionally we have not had any Council meetings. We do have a grant --
fhe block grant that we continued until then. I understand that we could continue that to
the 12th and still be okay, as long as we don't have any problems, because it has to be
turned in by the 15th. That's the reason we had set it as the 5th. So, city clerk, Jaycee,
came up wifih the idea of either continuing it there or coming in a little bit early for 15, 20
minutes and taking care of that one business on the 5th. National Night Out does start
Meridian City Council
July 1, 2008
Page 30 of 34
in Boise this year. So, we would have to come probably at 4:00, hit that, and, then, be
in Boise. It's your pleasure if --
Zaremba: We did something similar to that --
Bird: -- the city clerk would like to jump in on this, I'd appreciate it.
Zaremba: We didn't quit that early, but we did something similar to fhat --
B'ird: Yeah. Because we started in Boise. Yeah.
Zaremba: -- and, fhen, disseminated. Madam Clerk.
Holman: Vice-President, Council Members, my question -- so we would just convene
for a few minutes that night to continue it to the 12th or to hear it on the 5th?
Bird: That would be if we have no problems, I thought --
Holman: Okay.
Bird: -- that we would probably just pass it and get it out of the way.
Holman: Okay.
Bird: It's a public hearing and we have to keep it open to fhat point.
Hoiman: Okay. So, #hen, I would need some guidance as to what time -- if we were
going to do that, what time, so we can do a special nofice to meet at a different time.
Bird: And you know --
Zaremba: I like the idea of not putting it all the way off to the 12th. I think that's too
close to fhe 15th.
Bird: That's what I'm scared of, if some glitch of something comes up, we lose this for
this year because we can't get it in on time.
Zaremba: If we needed to meet at 4:00 o'clock or if we need to meet that early, I'm sure
we can do it.
Bird: Mr. Baird has a--
Baird: Yeah. I'm genuflecfiing over here. Thank you. Mr. Vice-President. I saw an e-
mail on this today. I didn't know that a direction had been determined or recommended
by the legal office. I have a concern that it's been continued on the~record to a-- not
only a date certain, but a time certain and if you convene early -- I want to make sure
Meridian City Council
July 1, 2008
Page 31 of 34
before we do that that we are still within the federal requirement. So, I'd urge you not to
make a decision tonight, you don't have to make a decision tonight. The issue's on the
table. Lefs look into what the alternafiives are and, then, maybe act on that next week
or the week after.
Borton: Good idea.
Baird: Does that sound fair?
Zaremba: For guidance, I would lean towards trying to keep it on the 5th if we can, so
that would be appreciated.
Bird: I don't believe we have anything else.
Zaremba: We also need to talk about the budget -- the enterprise budget.
Bird: Enterprise.
Zaremba: You're not available on the 8th; is that correct?
Borton: Well, we have the 9fh --
Zaremba: Okay. You're on the 9th for the regular budget discussion.
Borton: Right.
Zaremba; But we couldn't do -- so, the suggestion was made either doing it in the
evening and for me fhat would have to be either Monday or Thursday.
Bird: Oh. I told Jaycee that -- set the date, I'd make myself available for it. I'm
fortunate; I don't have to work, so --
Borton: The 14 and 15th, I'm really --
Holman: If I can interject for a moment. We did -- I came up with a time on Tuesday,
the 8th, from 1:00 to 5:00 that everyone can make it to, except for Councilman Borton.
This was just if there -- if Councilman Borton had some available time in the evening
before the 9th, we could set an evening date, because Tom Barry said he's doing a five
year history on all of this and where -- the direction it's headed, he really, really wanted
everybody to see it and listen to it. I have made the offer to Councilman Borton that if
he's not able to be there, we will burn the audio to a disk, he can listen to it and follow
up with Tom later, but --
Bird: Mr. Vice-President.
Zaremba: Councilman Bird.
Meridian City Council
July 1, 2008
Page 32 of 34
Bird: Being fhere for the budget, I think we need -- all should be there. So, we need to
work with what Mr. Borton can -- Joe, are you available the -- Monday, then, in the
evening?
Borton: The 14th and 15th -- I know the deadline's coming up. Is the 14fh too late?
Holman: Vice-President Zaremba, Council Members, what I had gotten from
accounting is they are saying -- they want everything by the 9th, so they can have
everything done by August 5th, which is our published public hearing day for the
budget. They really don't want to go beyond that, because they don't want to push
themseives. So, they were hoping for Public Works to be before the 9th. And that's -- I
can't speak for them, but that was just what I-- when I discussed it with them today
what I got out of the conversation.
Borton: Mr. Vice-President, I mean that's -- iYs a tough -- that's -- now it's an additional
-- I don't know when we were -- well, I guess it's three days after the 9th.
Zaremba: It was supposed to be yesterday.
Borton: Right. I guess it was the original intent that that be done, they would be
working on the Public Works part, finance would, while they are getting ready for -- to do
the big one on the 9fh.
Bird: Mr. Vice-President. I think, Jaycee, IeYs go back and see about the 14th. If Joe's
available on fhe 14th -- we are not pushing them that far 6ack and they are a good
crew, they'll get it ready. They will get it ready.
Holman: Okay. I can do that.
Zaremba: I'm pretty sure I should be available on the 14th. I'd have to double check,
but I don't think of anything why I'm not.
Borton: Or the 15th.
Holman: Do we have any indication --
Bird: The 15th is our regular meeting. It's our workshop. That -- over in Caldwell the
14th --
Zaremba; Yeah. The 14th is --
Bird: That's just a couple hours in the morning. We could still hit the afternoon.
Zaremba: Yeah. They did want us to come back for the evening open house at 4:00
o'clock, but we could skip that, the evening.
Meridian Ciry Council
July 1, 2008
Page 33 of 34
Bird: Well, we -- yeah. We don't need to go back. I think fhis budget -- if we can get --
if we can convince finance that we are not twisting their arm too bad to go back to the
14th, I think we should try. We want to make it so that everybody is comfortable with it.
Staff. Council. Mayor. Everybody.
Holman: Okay. And this will be contingent upon Councilman Rountree also and the
Mayor's schedule, because I don't know what she has on her schedule for the 14th or
15th.
Bird: I do know both of them have fhat morning. IYs 9:00 o'clock to 11:00, isn't it? For
the public officials? Over in Caldwell.
Zaremba: It may be one hour or two hours.
Bird: It's that transportation -- ITD deal.
Zaremba: Governor Otter's transportation funding meeting.
Borton: So, that afternoon?
Bird: I would be -- I'll make myself available.
Zaremba: Yeah.
Hoiman: Okay. The afternoon of the 14th. I'll check with the Mayor and Councilman
Rountree and I'll get back to everybody by tomorrow.
Zaremba: And shall we say the 15th as a fall back.
Bird: Yeah. I'd have no problem coming in early on the 15th.
Zaremba: Okay.
Holman: Okay.
Bird: But now you have got to go convince Stacy.
Zaremba: All right. Thank you. That's another consensus. So, final motion.
Bird: Mr. Vice-President, I move we adjourn.
Borton: Second.
Zaremba; We have a motion and a second. All in favor say aye. Any oppose? Motion
carries.
Meridian City Council
July 1, 2008
Page 34 of 34
MOTIDN CARRI'ED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Zaremba: We are adjourned at 8:42.
MEETtNG ADJOURNED AT 8:42 P.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
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