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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2008 07-01 PreMeridian Citv Pre-Council Meetina July 1, 2008 A meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:30 p.m., Tuesday, July 1, 2008, by President Charlie Rountree. Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd, Charlie Rountree, Keith Bird, Joe Borton, and David Zaremba. Others Present: Bill Nary, Jaycee Holman, and Keith Watts. Item 1: Roll-call Attendance: Roll call. X David Zaremba X Joe Borton X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird X Mayor Tammy de Weerd Rountree: I'm going to open the Tuesday, July 1 st, Pre-Council meeting with the roll call attendance, please. Item 2: Adoption of the Agenda: Rountree: Next item on the agenda is an item to adopt the agenda. B'ird: Mr. President? Rounfiree: Mr. Bird. Rountree: From the published agenda we need to add an Item No. 5, would be an Executive Session as per ldaho State Code 67-2345(1)(f) -- I thought they changed that to an (e) -- to (1)(b) as (f). (f). Okay. With that I move that we approve that revised agenda. Borton: Second. Rountree: Moved and seconded to approve the agenda with the revision. All those in favor? It's passed. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. De Weerd: It's going to be a long night. Rountree: I hope not. Bird: Better not. Meridian City Council Pre-Council July 1, 2008 Page 2 of 13 Item 4: Discussion of Concrete Surfacing on Lower Part of the New City Hall Building: Rountree: I#em 3 is a tour of City Hall. But do we have some stuff you want to present to us first? Or, Gene, do you want to -- okay. What's the Council's pleasure? Do you want to get an idea of some of the interior stuff before you go see it? Zaremba: Yes. Watts: President Rountree, Madam Mayor, Council Members, we did have two different partition walls for you to take a look at, just to get an idea of what we might be bidding today -- or bidding for the Q walls in the future. I know we discussed it last time, but we wanted to bring something before you, so you could take a look at it and also we have a couple of color samples for you to take a look at. Rountree: Okay. Let's do that. Thank you. If you'd lead us through that. Moser: Certainly. Thank you. First of all, we had been asked to layout the larger chairs on the side partifions of the City Council chambers, so we will pass that around. That is a drawing showing the placement of the seating. We feel that is -- that gives you adequate space based on that size chair, if you would like to proceed with that. De Weerd: Looks good. Moser: Thank you. Bird: Looks good to me. Moser: Secondly, we talked about the fabric covering for that chair. Carrie will pass around -- we talked about black and maybe some other options. This would be a non-PVC vinyl, rather than leather, for cost factors and durability. De Weerd: PVC? Moser: Non-PVC. So, fhere is no PVC. The old vinyls would have a PVC off gas. This is a newer polyurethane product that's available. Bird: Is the durability pretty good? Moser: Yes, it is? Watts: Madam Mayor and Council -- oh, excuse me. Madam Mayor and Council Members, there was about a 350 to 400 dollar difference between that and leather and that's why we went with fhat. Meridian City Council Pre-Council July 1, 2008 Page 3 of t3 Bird: As long as the durability is there I have no problem, but I love that color. De Weerd: So, it will be mocha. Brown. And brown goes with all of the stuff? Okay. Moser: As Keith mentioned, we also have the sample panels for you to take a look at. This is a sample of the style of panel that we will be bidding with approximately three to four different products. Basically this gives you an idea of the tack-able fabric panel insert. It will not necessarily be this color, but this is just a sample that we had. And Carrie is going to show you what approximately 66 inches looks like for that panel. So, these are a little bit shorter fihan what we would actually be using in the majority of the spaces. Zaremba: The fabric panel absorbs some sounds? Moser: They do. They do. They provide acoustical value, as well as adding a pane of class versus just having the opened, as we discussed -- as we discussed last time. The 42 inch -- what we have for you in your handout shows a vision panel that we would -- typical of what you would tend to see in these open office workstations where you have a 42 inch high fabric covered panel with a clear glazing above it for view and daylight. And, again, this is -- this is to enhance the user satisfaction within that cubicle, so we are providing the acoustical and the privacy fihat they have requested, while at the same trying to meet our LEED points for daylight and view. Watts: Madam Mayor and Council Members, I still want to bring up the fact that the windows are just above desk height, roughly. So, we sfill have the privacy being where you're going to be seeing people sitting around you and I know Anna Canning had issues with that as -- as we discussed last week. I thought we had direction from you to do just the above 12 inches of glass on the top of the partition walls. Bird: I don't -- Rountree: I don't remember that, Keith. Watts: Okay. Rountree: I don't know that we gave any specificity in terms of -- of that, but, one, what fhe directors needed to do their job and, two, what we needed to accomplish the LEEDS point. Moser: Yeah. In fact, we have got -- we were working out our calculation last time we talked, so we did bring our diagrams for the different areas for the LEED points. Simmons: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Steve Simmons, LCA Architects. What this is is a ray diagram and there is two points that we are going to try to actively pursue. We hadn't originaily in the update that we have been giving, you know, on a monthly basis with Petra, we were not trying to . pursue, actively, anyway, the day- Meridian City Council Pre-Council July 1, 2008 Page 4 of 13 lighfing and the view corridor -- the view areas, but they are points that are certainly obtainable and, as you know, we need all fhe point opportunities that we can. So, what this is illustrating -- and the blue rays are -- and you can see the red diagrams as well. Those cubicles, if they are full height virtually, there is no -- nothing you can see out of those. So, we have lost the view opportunities. So, there is two different points, day- lighting, which we feel pretty comfortable we can obtain, because you need 75 percent of the occupied stations to have daylight, natural daylight attributes. But the challenge is the view and if we put in those solid partitions, number one, we have lost that view. Twelve inches down from 66 inches allows day-lighting in, but there is no view opportunities. So, literally, you would have to have windows like that starting above desk height at 42, roughly, to allow when a person would be sitting that you have that range to be able to at least look out and have contact with an outs'ide window, of course. In the photographs that you have there. Bird: You have a 24 inch panel, then. Simmons: Yes, sir. And there is no guarantee, but we'd like to be able to offer, then, and try to obtain that, just so there is another issue of esthetics. Part of the overall feel that we are all trying to achieve from fhe get go of this facility is LEED day-lighting, all those sorts of healthy environments, so having the glass and have sort of a lighting opportunity for this open area was essential to achieving that, so I personally feel that if we -- if we put up solid partitions full height we have shot fhat down and we at least eliminated the opportunity to try to get the view point. Day-lighting, yes, but view would be gone. The only other challenge we have with the view is the Council chambers itself. City Council chambers you see is in gray. Right now we are going to have to probably argue that point and go to the council -- the Green Building Council, because they somewhat interpret fhat space as a-- somewhat used like a conference room, which, in reality you don't use this room like a conference room and we envision this to be more secure in the new facility, so people wouldn't have the ability to just walk in and have an impromptu conference in that room. So, we would challenge that point under the view -- the view point, if you will. Right now that 3,000 feet or whatever it is plus, shoots down the opportunity to even get the view point, but we are going to challenge that and we feel pretty strongly tha# we can at least make a pretty good case for that, because that is not -- it's a fairly unique space. This space is not something fihat's utilized by employees every day, seven, eight hours a day. It's specific reasons. And the reason is because there is no windows in it and there is a reason there is no windows, so when we have projection systems and things fhat we have. They tend to look at it, well, you can put blinds, you can do other things. Well, you can't really do that that well in a room of that size. So, there is a reason for that. But what they are proposing, what everybody has been looking at is a mixture of glass and partitions, solid panels like you have in front of you, to at least allow us the opportunity to try to pursue that point, so -- De Weerd: Mr. President? Rountree: Madam Mayor. Meridian City Council Pre-Council July 1, 2008 Page 5 of 13 De Weerd: I guess, Steve, my question would be do they have to have it -- that view corridor sitting down or -- it is where they are sitting at their desk? Moser: Point is -- De Weerd: Because I believe Director Canning's issue was as her staff is trying to focus on development applications and that the sort of thing, the distraction of movement and all of that is what she's concerned about and disrupting -- Simmons: Part of that I would counter, Mayor, Members of the Council, is also that particular -- I'll take the other side of the truck. That particular area has more enclosed offices than any other office space. In a different programming standpoint, because I understood and I agreed with -- with her at the onset, they have -- this source of many of them kind of do -- need that kind of enclosed space to do what they need to do and they are on the phones a lot and we understand that. In fact, a lot of those enclosed offices are on the perimeter as it says and whether these are the same way, I can't answer fihat, she aan. But we still feel we can provide some privacy, but, you know, it goes counter to what the vision of the building was going to be by putting solid partifiions up all over. At least it eliminates the opportunity. If's your choice. Moser: If I may pass this around, I have done an isometric here of a revised cubicle showing high glass and, then, the low glass at the corners and so you actually have a concentration work zone within your own space, so you have got an area that does have windows that you can scoot your chair_ over to achieve daylight, but also at the ~ same time you do need that heads down fime where nobody's bothering you and if it turns out that we cannot achieve that view point fhat we want, we have the option for ribbed glass fhat's the same cost as fhe clear class for privacy issues, if we don't -- if we can't get the view. And I'll pass this around. Zaremba: Mr. President? Rountree: Dave. Zaremba: One of the other issues, besides the distraction of the windows, was that Planning and Zoning as a group need to hang large things on fheir wall, like -- like the map fhat's leaning against our wall over there -- in order to work with the people that are in there doing stuff. Do we lose points if they use stickers and put things on the glass? Simmons: How you use the space is up to you. Zaremba: Okay. Simmons: The diagrams and the calculations don't take that into account, they do the square footage of glass and area (unintelligible). Zaremba: Because they need wall space and -- okay. :Meridian City Council Pre-Council July 1, 2008 Page 6 of 13 Borton: Mr. President? Rountree: We are not setting ourselves up for a situation -- it sounded like you go wifh clear glass and if it doesn't work you go with this -- I mean it doesn't make sense to divide two different versions and -- did I misunderstand you? Moser: No. V1/e need to finish our calculafiions for the view points. He mentioned t~he City Council room. If we can get that -- argue for that point, if fihey will give us that point, we will do clear glass and if they don't -- so, you're not going to be buying finro. It will be either/or. Simmons: I guess -- I guess what it would mean, fhough, is what these diagrams don't show yet is just if you like the overall concept we are talking with the glass in the corners, like in the diagram she just showed you, fhe isometric she drew, we need to go back and take this diagram and be able to do our rays out of those cubicles. You see right now they are just red. We haven't done it, because we weren't sure if it was a solid partition or you were going to allow us to have some glass in those. If we can agree that at 42 inches we can put a window -- and we will mark where these windows go and we will do these things for the diagrams and be able to tell you where to purchase them to get wifh this -- we have no chance at all to do what we want. You know, so we~would know fihat here real soon. We just need to be able to work with Elizabeth and. now this -- today we figured out if (unintelligible) windows strategically in those cubicles, so you can have that view corridor. So, fhere again, at least we can strive for the point and, hopefully, that's one we can get, so -- either way we sfill have to argue on t'he Council chambers. That doesn't matter. If we are going to try to get that. Rountree: Okay. Any other questions? Zaremba: Yeah. Rountree: David. Zaremba: I know you said it a couple times, but I'm still not quite understanding the Council ehambers. It's not really desira6le to have a view -- Simmons: Absolutely. Zaremba: -- in the Council chambers. I'm not understanding what fhe point -- Simmons: This USB Building Council sees it black and white. You should have daylight into all meeting spaces where a worker or somebody is going to be and they look at that like a big conference room. Well, in fact, it's not. So, we have to write an argument. We submit for our views and for our day-lighfing and submit that room -- Zaremba: A room to be exempt from being counted or something. Meridian City Council Pre-Council July 1, 2008 Page 7 of 13 Simmons: Now, they can turn it down, but we are going to try to make the argument -- and fhey allow for fihat. There is a methodology to do that, but -- so, I guess the point is, Councilman Zaremba, is that we could go with the clear glass, besides what we are asking you, but it's contingent on thai room being accepted as well. And they could turn the room down and this is -- but, there again, we feel strongly -- this creates the overall feel regardless, you know. I#'s a much better environment having glass, having people that have connections to the outside environment, which is what the building was striving to do anyway, versus solid partitions up to 66 inches, so -- De Weerd: And the red glass that qualifies for fhat view -- Simmons: It does not. It does not. So, we will have this put to bed to allow Keith, when he goes out and we put our bid packages together one way or the other, so -- Borton: Mr. President? Rounfiree: Joe. Borton: This might have come up last week. Maybe Keith can answer it. Was there some overwhelming favor one way or the other with -- with staff? And not just planning staff, but all users of City Hall in regards to the partition? Rountree: We had meeting wifih the directors last week after the presentation -- and Keith can give you a rundown on what's going on -- Watts: Councilman Borton, Madam Mayor, Council Members, most of the staff would rather naturally have the -- fhe higher walls with the glass and you also have to realize that our -- our general population are not looking at getting a LEED point. That's not in their realm. They are considering what's best for each individual worker. The workers would prefer to have fhe higher walls. The employees would. So, it's -- the bottom line would be whefiher the -- if we had to go with the -- with LEED point and we will have to dictate to fhem we will put the glass in where we are required in order to get that LEED point or we will decide not to get the LEED point and in fihat case, fhen, we will instruct LCA to write the specs in that direction. Simmons: And, then, we could use the 12 inch glass on top above that if we wanted to. Watts: Yes. If we choose not to go that -- Simmons: We have high ceilings in there, too, which is nice. Watts: I think what we will need is a decision from Council as whether we want to obtain that LEED point, to go for that LEED point. Rountree: Thanks, Keith. Meridian City Council Pre-Council July 1, 2008 Page 8 of 13 Borton: Mr. President? Rountree: Joe. Borton: Any chance you could do partitions in Council chambers, maybe between Council members? De Weerd: Amen, brother. Rountree: Do you need that direction this evening? Watts: I guess I would ask Steve. Rountree: Do you need it? Watts: We can get the spec written and get it out to bid. Rountree: Okay. Simmons: I.guess what I would ask is just let us figure out the raise -- let's assume we are going to put the glass in and go through the exercise of just seeing what our view opportunities out of these cubicles and -- what's that, a day or two, probably. And, then, come back to you and advise Keith yea or nay. I mean if it doesn't look like we are really going to do it anyway, then, we may as well just take. them off and make everybody happy, I guess. Watts: Madam Mayor and Council Members, I would probably prefer to have that decision made now, so we don't have to come back next week and ask again and we can just move forward. If he's able to get the LEED point and you want to go with it, we will let the specs that way. If they are not obtainable, then, it's a non-issue and we will go with the 12 inch on top, is what I would suggest. I'm just firying to eliminate having to come back to Council again for this decision. B'ird: Mr. President? Rountree: Mr. Bird. Bird: My two cents worfh is I'd like to see them have the full -- after 42 inches have 24 inches of glass. A light office is a much pleasant -- more pleasant office to work in than a dark one. I think that -- I think everybody, once it was set up, would like it. Twelve inches is not much. By the time you get -- you're going up seven foot partitions that way and by the time you get your aluminum surround; you're probably down to at least eight inch of glass is all. So, I would like to state it -- what these are like and this height I know is very -- used quite often throughout the office world and has been very successful. That's my two cents. Meridian City Council Pre-Council July 1, 2008 Page 9 of 1'3 Borton: Mr. President? Rountree: Joe. Borton: I could probably be persuaded either way, but my -- my initial reaction is probably the opposite. The point itself, it sounds like we have a map laid out to get us points needed without this element. It would be nice, you can't have too many, and it's a nice safety point to try and get the -- you know. But we are talking about the preferences of the work environment of those that are going to be sitting here day to day. We have got fhese in our office and they are low and they are not preferred. But I'm sure fhere are some great examples, which you could provide where it works best. I'd probably lean to go the other way and have glass on top. Watts: Council Members, I would like to reiterate what Councilman Bird did say, that, you know, you're going to have approximately fhree or four inches of a frame around that glass, so if we do go with the 24, then, we will end up with 18, 16 inches of glass. I'm guessing. LCA can verify that. A 12 inch is probably going to only give you like an eight or a nine inch piece of glass. B'ird: Yeah. Watts: Which would be -- fhe one thing is the lower glass probably -- I'm not sure -- will that cover the top of a 17 or a 20 inch monitor? I'm not sure if it will even cover the tops of monitors, but LCA aan address that as well. Moser: Yes. Yes. We can adjust -- we can put the glass at a certain -- there are different increments and we can raise it up and make it above 42 if we need to, make the lower panel 54. Although the glazing portion of it, what we would like to try to do is minimize the amount of glazing necessary to get the view point and I think that sample that I passed around, that sheet wifih the glass on the outer corner is probably our best bet for fhat. De Weerd: Do you have those samples you want to give back? Borton: Mr. President, I'm not necessarily, you know, stuck in stone on having it higher. And I don't disagree with Councilman Bird. But from my limited experience (unintelligible) for now. Moser: I'm passing around, again, that -- the diagram of the partition that shows the glass on the exterior and based on our views, all I really need is a line from where somebody is sitting out to a window and I may be able to accomplish that in a 24 inch wide by 36 inch high piece of glazing. Borton: Mr. President? Meridian City Council Pre-Council July 1, 2008 Page 10 of t3 Rountree: Joe. Borton: Looking at this diagram that eifher I skipped over and didn't understand. It seems as though this -- doing the glass, as Councilman Bird describes, still affords the privacy and the head down work space, so -- I don't know why I missed it. So, that makes more sense. I apologize. Bird: Want to see that, Charlie? Rountree: No. I saw that and I would concur with what Mr. Bird said. Short of not being able to accomplish it after you do your analysis, then, I would follow Keith Watts' recommendation and finish the analysis. If it's -- if it's a go, move the direction to get the view. If isn't going to work anyway, procedure as Keith recommended. That way you can get a spec and don't have to come back to Council and get going. Moser: You'd rather me do that than keep -- keep -- maintain the panel, with the glazing view and swap out the glazing? Rountree: To that -- Moser: Clear to this. That would just -- to terrace that as a little esthetic element into it, still maintaining privacy, rather than doing a full height fabric panel, where you would have no window. Is that acceptable? ~ Rountree: You can't see through the -- the -- whatever you call fihat glass. Moser: Glazing. Bird: You can see -- the obscure glass. You can see -- Rountree: Shadows. B'ird: You can see shadows, but you can't see -- Rountree: So -- Watts: President Rountree, Councilmen, I would like to also offer the -- for information ~ that if we do go wifh that glazing, it will add a cost over than just a standard fabric panel and I'm not sure if -- maybe Gary from Correctional Industries could get us an idea of -- a rough estimate per panel. Moser: Oh, I don't have that rough esfimate per panel, but I do -- we do have the glazing built into the budget that you have. Rountree: Good. Meridian City Council Pre-Council July 1, 2008 Page 11 of 13 Bird: It looks nice. Rountree: So, did you get what you needed? All right. Moser: Thank you. Yes. Bird: Move it forward. No excuses. Rountree: That's all you needed? Okay. So, before we break for the tour, our friends at Meridian Heights and Kentucky Ridge want to get back together and I've explained to them what the Council's position was and I fihink they recognize what the position is. They might want the Council to consider a scheduling or a timing of how to implement some kind of an activity out there. My quesfion to you is do you want to hear that in a workshop-type environment, because there could be a lot of stuff thrown around. Or would you want it in a regular meeting? Because I have no idea how long it could go. Borton: Mr. President? I don't know when the last meeting was, but I had met wifh -- with Mr. Grady and one of their representatives, which is somebody new some time ago, but it was the last meeting that I was aware of and it was effective. It didn't take that much time, but allowed us to remind them the questions that we needed answered and we hadn't heard anyfhing back. So, I guess my sense would be sort of coming in and having a full Council meeting, is you have one of fhose again, I would be glad to go -- maybe Mr. Barry will want to come with me to see where they are coming in and find out the scope of the request or if they have done anymore work. And, then, report back to Council. Rountree: I could go work through Public Works on that particular item or just schedule them for a workshop piece of August, then, they could come in with Public Works and some of the scenarios they want to present and move forward that way, in the August -- workshop. Is that agreeable? Bird: Fine with me, Charlie. Item 3: Tour of New City Hall Building: Rountree: Okay. Tha#'s all I needed. We will get back to them, tell them that's what we will do for them. One more time. Thank you. Let's adjourn to the tour after Gene tells us what we are going to do. Bennett: Thank you. Some of us you see all of the time and some of us you don't. So, Sherry and Tom, you see them all the time. Some of the people that you don't see all the time, Laura is assistant LEED. She's an architectural student at Moscow and -- De Weerd: Moscow. Bennett: Moscow. I stand corrected. Meridian City Council Pre-Council July 1, 2008 Page 12 of 13 Bird: You were correct. Bennett; Matt is a project superintendent. He's pushing the site. And Scott is NEP superintendent, mechanical-electrical. He's in charge of systems start-up on a very technical building. Thank my lucky stars for Scott Rainer. So, we are ready to go. Rountree: Okay. Bennett: You won't need hard hats. You won't need anything. There is nobody on site, so -- (Recess.) Zaremba: Okay. We will reconvene the Pre-Council meeting. We have had Item 3, the tour of the City Hall building and while we were there we covered Item 4, discussing of the concrete surfacing. ~ Item 5: Executive Session per ldaho State Code 67-2345(1)(fl -(to consider and advise its legal representatives in pending litigation): Zaremba: And now we will move onto Item 5, which it is -- for those of you that weren't here earlier, is a item that was added. We moved the Executive Session from the regular meeting into this Pre-Council meeting and if we have a motion -- Bird: Mr. Vice-President? Zaremba: Mr. Bird. Bird: I move we go into Executive Session as per ldaho State Code 67-2345(1)(f). Borton: Second. Zaremba: We have a motion and a second. Lef's see. That I believe is a roll call vote. Madam Clerk. Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, absent; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea. MOTION CARRf'ED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT. De Weerd: All right. We are into Executive Session. EXECUTIVE SESSION: Zaremba: Okay. I would entertain a motion to come out of Executive Session. Meridian City Council Pre-Council July 1, 2008 Page 13 of 13 Bird: So moved. Borton: Second. Zaremba: We have a motion and a second. All in favor say aye. Any opposed? That motion carries. MOTIDN CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT. Zaremba: I would entertain a motion to adjourn the Pre-Council meeting. Bird: So moved. Borton: Second. Zaremba: We have a motion and a second. All favor in say aye. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT. MEETING ADJOURNED AT 7:00 P.M. (TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDI'NGS) ~ ~~ / 2 ~ / ~~ TAMMY ;DE ERD, MAYOR DATE APPROVED \~~ .,,,~~~~~~~~,,,,,.,. .~`~~~\ ~ ~~~''% ATTEST: ' '~y "~- ., JAYCE L. HOLMAN? CIT LERK o ' = S~AL = ; 9~~ ,~ ;: ~=9 r~s~• ,~P.~ ,,,,,,, /'''''/, ~ 1``````````,,,. ~ ~P ~v -~-~.~~-,,