HomeMy WebLinkAbout1994 02-15~ •
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL
AGENDA
TIJESDAY, FEBRUARY 15, 1994 - 7:30 P.M.
CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS
MINUTES OF PREVIOUS MEETING HELD FEBRUARY 1, 1994:
(APPROVED)
1. JIM BONNER: COMPLAINT CONCERNING INSURANCE DECISION OF COVERAGE:
TABLED AT FEBRUARY 1, 1994 MEETING: (REQUEST DENIED)
Z. FINAL PLAT: HUNTS BLUFF #2 SUBDIVISON BY FARWEST DEVELOPERS AND
ROYLANCE AND ASSOCIATES:(APPROVED)
FINAL PLAT: ENGLEWOOD CREEK SUBDIVISON BY GLENN L. JOHNSON AND
ROYLANCE AND ASSOCIATES:(TABLED UNTIL MARCH 1, 1994)
4. FINAL PLAT: SPORTSMAN POINTE #5 SUBDIVISION BY THE WESTPARK CO.
AND J.J. HOWARD ENGINEERS:(TABLED UNTIL MARCH i, 1994,
ATTORNEY TO PREPARE ORDINANCE)
5. PUBLIC HEARING: VARIANCE REQUEST FOR LANDFALL SUBDIVISON BY
GOLDSMITH CHARTER:(CITY ATTORNEY TO PREPARE FINDINGS
FACT ~ND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW)
6. PUBLIC HEARING: VARIANCE REQUEST FOR KING STREET STATION
SUBDIVISON BY D. J. INVESTMENTS AND BRIGGS ENGINEERING:
(CITY ATTORNEY TO PREPARE FINDINGS OF FACT AND
CONCLUSIONS OF LAW)
7. PUBLIC HEARING: VARIANCE REQUEST FOR SCOTTSDALE ESTATES
SUBDIVISION BY ROBERT AND VERNA CHRISTENSEN AND
BRIGGS ENGINEERING: (CITY ATTORNEY TU PREPARE FINDINGS
FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW)
8. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERNIIT FOR A
DAY CARE BY LESLIE PALMER: (APPROVED)
9. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR ANNEXATION AND ZONING WITH A
CONDIITONAL USE PERMIT FOR KING STREET STATION
SUBDIVISION BY D.J. INVESTMENTS AND BRIGGS EINGINEERING:
(CITY ATTORNEY TO PREPARE FINDINGS OF FACT AND
CONCLUSIONS OF LAW)
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10. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR ANNEXATION AND ZONING WITH A
PRELIMINARY PLAT FOR SCOTSDALE ESTATES BY ROBERT AND
VERNA CHRISTENSEN AND BRIGGS ENGINEERING:(CITY
ATTORNEY TO PREPARE FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS
OF LAW}
11. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR ANNEXATION AND ZONIl~iG WITH A
PRELIMINARY PLAT FOR VALERI HEIGHTS SUBDIVISION BY
VICKIE WELKER AND HtJBBLE EINGINEERING:(APPROVED, CITY
ATTORNEY TO PREPARE ORDINANCE)
12. PROCLAMATION: PRAYER VIGIL WEEK:
13 PROCLAMATION: FFA WEEK:
14. BRIAN THREET: REQUEST FOR TEMPORARY SALES TRAII,OR IN CONIFER
SUBDIVISION LOCATED ON N. TALL PINE PLACE, LOT l, BLOCK l:
(APPROVED)
15. REQUEST BY TED HUTCHINSON OF TEALY'S LAND SURVEYING TO MODIFY
THE AREA OF IMPACT BOUNDARY NEXT TO THE RIDENBAUGH
CANAL FOR PROPERTY OWNED BY PACIFIC NORTHWEST
ELECTRIC , CO.:(PREPARE LETTER)
16. DEPARTMENT REFORTS:
A. SHARI STILES - PLANNING DIRECTOR:
1. ZONING AND DEVELOPMENT CHECKLIST
2. REVISED APPLICATIONS
B. WAYNE S. FORREY:
l. UPDATE ON DEVELOPMENT COMPLIANCE
2. UPDATE ON MAJOR PROJECTS
3. DISCUSSION OF URBAN TRRIGATION
C. RON TOLSMA:
1. SOFTBALL LEAGUE
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MERIDIAN CITY C~UNCIL FEBRUARY 15. 1994
The regular meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order by Mayor
Grant Kingsford at 7:30 P. M.:
Members Present: Ron Tolsma, Bob Corrie, Walt Morrow, Max Yerrington:
Others Present: Will Berg, Wayne Crookston, Wayne Forrey, Bruce Freckleton,
Marty Goldsmith, Richard Jewel, Kent Shepard, Joe Simunich, J. R. Kellogg, Kathy
Simunich, Ralph Patey, Becky Bowcutt, Vickie Welker, Coe Parker, Dave Fuller,
Brian Threet, Chief Gordon, Jim Johnson, Shari Stiles, Jim Bonner:
MINUTES OF PREVIOUS MEETING HELD FEBRUARY 1, 1994:
Kingsford: Are there any corrections or deletions to those minutes?
Tolsma: Mr. Mayor, I move they be approved as written.
Yerrington: Second
Kingsford: Moved and seconded to approve the February 1 st minutes, all those in
favar? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
ITEM #1: JIM BONNER: COMPLAINT CONCERNING INSURANCE DECISION OF
COVERAGE: TABLED AT FEBRUARY 1, 1994 MEETING:
Kingsford: Is the Council prepared to take action on that issue?
Morrow : Mr. Mayor, I was absent the last meeting, but I've read the minutes and
I've visited the site. t kind of strongty feel that we are each responsible for our
own actions. I don't see where the City has any liability there, I would be
opposed to spending any of the tax payers dollars in reimbursement of whatever
happened. I think that I'd like to move that we not reimburse Mr. Bonner any of
his insurance coverage in repairing his vehicle.
Tolsma: Second
Kingsford: Its moved by Walt, second by Ron to deny the request my Mr. Jim
Bonner, any discussion, seei~g none all those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All yea
ITEM #2: FINAL PLAT: HUNTS BLUFF #2 SUBDIVISION BY FARWEST
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DEVELOPERS AND ROYLANCE AND ASSOCIATES:
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Kingsford: Council members do you have any questions of staff or engineering?
Morrow: Mr. Mayor, i have a question of Bruce. According to your note in todays
box you haven't had time ta thoroughly review this project, is that correct?
Freckleton: Right
Morrow: Has Gary had time?
Freckteton: No, Gary just came back Monday and we just didn't have the time to
do a thorough enough review late Friday afternoon. (Inaudible)
Kingsford: In the past Bruce, the Council has granted approval pending the City
Engineer's approval, he has to sign the plat, you and Gary comfortable with that.
Freckleton: That would be fine, I think that is what I've got in my memo.
Kingsford: Any other questions, Mr. Crookston.
Crookston: This is a matter where a development agreement is called for in the
Findings, and I have no idea what the status of that is.
Kingsford: What is the status Mr. Craokston, of the blanket, when might we
expect that?
Crookston: I'm still working on that, hopefully by our meeting next Tuesday.
Kingsford: We have several developments now that we need to get that
agreement ironed out with.
Crookston: On the agenda tonight items #2, 3, and 4 att have that situation.
Kingsford: 1 think we have some others that we approved.
Crookston: There are.
Kingsford: So that would also be a condition of approval is that is the Councit's
desire. Is Council prepared to take any action?
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Meridian City Council
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Morrow: I have a question here, so if I understand what we are doing here, the
City Engineer's department has not had adequate time to review this project, the
City Attorney has not had time to draw up the development agreement.
Crookston: But we haven't decided whether or not the City is going to be doing it
or whether we are expecting the developer to do it.
Kingsford: What I had brought to Mr. Crookston's attention was a boiler point
type ofi a development agreement we might be able to push around on a word
processor to fit each particular agreement. That hasn't been achieved some of the
ones we have approved I think the Council has anticipated the developer would
come in with that agreement for our review and adjustment that has not happened
on some of the ones we've approved. With regard, I guess I would stipulate with
regard to the City Engineer I think we probably had time to review because of
some of the circumstances we haven't gotten that done.
Morrow: I'm sensitive to that, I understand that and so I guess my question here
is that I don't have a problem with going ahead and approving these things subject
to the other things being completed, but I don't think its, I don't want to see the
things tabled because f don't think its necessarily fair to the public that they be
tabled while we get our house in order. And so I think that would be the
perspective that I'm looking at this from. And the question that t have is do we
have information in our department heads comfortable with approving these
projects subject to the City Engineer and the City Attorney and the development
agreement.
Kingsford: Well, I think particu{arly the department heads, the City Engineer and
City Clerk have to sign the plats in order for that to take place they are going to
assert that we have met the requirements that the Council has asked and are
concerned about.
Morrow: Okay, fine I have no further questions.
Kingsford: Mr. Corrie, you look as if you are going to say something.
Corrie: I think that is going to based Walt, on an individual basis here because
there are some, and I'm not too convinced that they are ready for it either. I
would move that we approve the Final plat then of Hunts Bluff NO. 2 subdivision
with the contingent that a complete file review of all the minutes of varying
compliances with all the development issues before they are signed by the
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Meridian City Council
February 15, 1994
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different department heads, City Engineer and City Clerk excuse me and the
Zoning Administrator.
Morrow: Second
Kingsford: Moved by Bob, second by Walt to approve the Final plat of Hunts Bluff
subject review of all the minutes and agreements and that the department heads
approve of those before signing off, all those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All yea
ITEM #3: FINAL PLAT: EINGLEWOOD CREEK SUBD{VISION BY GLENN L.
JOHNSON AND ROYLANCE AND ASSOCIATES:
Kingsford: Questions for the engineer or for the department heads.
Corrie: Mr. Mayor, I have some for the developer if he is here. One of the
questions I have, in the original submission of your asking for the Final plat you
had the (inaudible~ Lot 2, Block 5 is to be dedicated for a City well, then on you~
mapping it stated that the City Well was going to be on Lot 2, Bfock 1, which is
it?
Jewel: The lots and blocks were re-numbered a little bit from the preliminary plat
to the final. If I may, here is Ustick Road, its this corner lot, this one here.
Morrow: So its Lot 2, Block 5?
Jewel: And now its re-numbered, its Lot 4, same lot.
Corrie: Is this a different plat than what you have?
Jewel: Well, I'm not sure how it got re-numbered, but its the same lot.
Corrie: Okay, but this is the one we are talking about right here. And I have one
other question Mr. Mayor it is in reference to Niemann Drive. What is happening
here, are you going to cover that for the street, I'm a little confused on the
mapping here. What is going to happen there?
Jewel: I don't understand your question?
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Meridian City Councii
February 15, 1994
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Corrie: Okay, is this ridged for traffic?
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Jewel: This is supposed to be in the second phase, the cu{vert, which was agreed
on the pretiminary plat. However, there has been a request from the City Engineer
that we eliminate this portion of the road and not have that crossing at all.
Kingsford: Are you aware of the existing associations here letter of (inaudible)
and it is a significant change and should be reviewed by all the agencies?
Jewel: That is right.
Kingsford: Any other questions Council?
Jewe1: Excuse me, may I ask a question? Regarding the Weil lot, apparently there
is still a concern on whether it has to be dedicated for a well lot or a fire sta#ion
and I would like to ask the City if we might be able to resolve that among
themselves, apparently that is still in question.
Kingsford: I think one of the things we are looking at this moment is with our
hydrologist to determine if that is a satisfactory wetl lot then also to determine if
that is an appropriate place for a stock fire station. So, certainly that is something
the city would resolve.
Jewel: We spoke with both Gary Smith and Wayne Forrey in the past not going
either way that they are aware of.
Kingsford: Mr. Freckleton, your letter of yesterday, do you feel its a subsidy
change that it ought to be re-submitted to the department heads?
Freckleton: Mr. Mayor, and Council, Mr. Jewel indicated to me that he was
concerned with the time frame turn around on this issue of the significant change
whether it would take them sometime to re-draft the plat and this sort of thing.
He didn't want to see it get dragged out for another month or so that was an issue
he did bring up with me.
Kingsford: Well, I think, at a minimum you are going to see it drag out for 2
weeks, it will be at the next Council meeting, but I think the department heads
ought to have opportunity to review that final plat. It would be my
recommendation to Council that they table that until next meeting and Mr. Jewel
you need to get those in welf in advance of next meeting so the department heads
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can review them and so the Council can look at them. Mr. Berg says not later
than tomorrow maybe. Does that meet with your schedule?
Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I would move we table this until our next meeting because
there are so many things here that are undetermined as of yet.
Corrie: Second
Kingsford: Moved by Walt, second by Bob to table Englewood Creek Subdivision
ur~til the next regular meeting, all those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
ITEM #4: FINAL PLAT: SPORTSMAN POINTE #5 SUBDIVISION BY THE
WESTPARK CO. AND J.J. HOWARD ENGINEERS:
Kingsford: Does Council have any questions for the developer or his engineer or
staff? Council has comments from Mr. Freckleton with regards to this.
Tolsma: I have a question for Mr. Forrey on the letter he has.
Forrey: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Tolsma, my comments pertaining to this project
center on the fact that I haven't been able to personally verify if they have
complied with the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law or if there is a
development agreement required and I've been going back through the hearing at
P&Z and city Council and I was unable to find all of the complete files on this
project at the time I wrote the memorandum. So I would ask for a little more time
and also to meet with Wayne Crookston and Gary Smith because Bruce is not
familiar with this project and I didn't have a chance to meet with Gary last week.
So, I hate to see something tabled but at least if the Council was to approve it
with the understanding that at this point I don't know exactly what we are
approving. I'm just not famitiar enough with this project neither is Bruce that we
can make a firm recommendation one way or another.
Kingsford: Similar to Hunt's Bluff I think again the satisfaction of the City Clerks
and City Engineers signature on the plat.
Forrey: Do you have anything to add Bruce?
Johnson: I'm Greg Johnson, I represent the Westpark company, when we turned
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Meridian City Council
February 15, 1994
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this plat in there were significant questions of staff and on it we didn't know how
to proceed with it either. If you will recall when we submitted the preliminary plat
an Sportsman Pointe this is in the portion of ground that was not in the Urban
Service Planning Area at the time. 1 can't remember what that date was, since
then that has been put in the Urban service Planning Area but it is my
understanding that at that time this portion was tabled until that happened and F
think we need to un-table that annexation and zoning actually needs to take place,
that is my recollection. Although, we were told at that time we wpuldn't have to
go through any public hearings or anything, but it still is not part of this City at this
point, I don't think. Untess that was done in the past but I wasn't aware of.
Kingsford: Well, that is certainly something we would have to research that file.
Johnson: So, whatever needs to be done, we've been trying to get it done over
this past winter but, if that needs to be a vote for that to take place and then
those readings of annexation we need to get them done as soon as we can. We
would like to proceed with construction in mid-March if we can if these things can
be taken care of. Any questions on the actual plat?
Kingsford: I suppose its the appropriate thing to do is to table this until the next
meeting, ask staff to review that. If in fact proper hearings were held, probably it
would be appropriate for the Council then to direct the City Engineer to prepare an
Ordinance for annexation if that be the case. Does that seem reasonable
Counselor?
Crookston: Might as well have the City Attorney do it instead of the Engineer.
Kingsford: Oh, probably the first time in 10 years that 1've made a mistake, I
stand corrected.
Crookston: Gary can do it if he wants to.
Yerrington: 1'll make a motion for the table.
Corrie: Second
Kingsford: Moved and seconded to table Sportsman Pointe until next meeting, and
research the files and review its annexation status, all those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRtED: All yea
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Meridian City Council
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Kingsford: Do you want to, Wayne would it be appropriate to direct you to
prepare that Ordinance if in fact we've held this up, if that be the case would it be
the Council's desire to have that Ordinance prepared if in fact we have met those,
can I have a motion to that effect?
Morrow: So moved
Corrie: Second
Kingsford: Moved by Walt, second by Bob to have the City Attorney prepare an
Ordinance for annexation and zoning if that is the appropriate thing with regard to
hearings, all those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
ITEM#5: PUBLIC HEARING: VARIANCE REQUEST FOR LANDFALL SUBDIVISION
BY GOLDSMITH CHARTER:
Kingsford: At this time I will open the public hearing and invite the owner or his
representative to speak first.
Marty Goldsmith, 4550 West State Street, Boise, was sworn by the Attorney.
Crookston: Just to start out with, would you state the previous name of this
subdivision?
Goldsmith: It was Upland Meadows and that was disapproved by John Priester, I
believe Landfall is also out, so it also needs to be known Landfall has been
approved as Salmon Rapids.
Kingsford: I'm not sure I like that one, will you come up with a different one?
Goldsmith: No problem.
Kingsford: Salmon Rapids
Goldsmith: Mr. Mayor and Council, we're going to talk about the tiling of the
Eight Mile Lateral, it is a very similar situation that we have gone through with
Hunts Bluff #2. It is the same ditch, it is not very far downstream and it is
carrying the same water flow. So, I'm proposing to fence it and as per Wayne
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Meridian City Council
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Forrey's suggestions I'm in compliance with the City of Meridian we've had a
license agreement drawn up with Nampa Meridian Irrigation District and will be
providing not only a fence on the Eight Mile Lateral, gates across the crossings on
the Eight Mil~ Lateral that will be locked and they will be to their standards and we
are still working those out. That is about it, {'ve got some vicinity maps if those
are too small to see I can pinpoint it for you.
Kingsford: I think the Council is familiar with it, any questions?
Morrow: I have a question, in Wayne Forrey's comments he is calling for suitable
fencing, what does suitable fencing mean?
Goldsmith: Once again that is per the license agreement with the Nampa Meridian
Irrigation District.
Morraw: Is that 6 foot chain link?
Goldsmith: The license agreement calls for cedar fencing.
Morrow: Cedar fencing, will that be protected from burning when the ditch banks
are bermed?
Goldsmith: That is what they have approved and I would be more than happy to
re-submit that to Nampa Meridian Irrigation District for chain link. This license
agreement was drawn up probably 4 months ago, and in fact everything that I had
seen had been in cedar fencing to that point. Mr. Tolsma, 1 believe has been in
touch with Nampa Meridian Irrigation District since then and has come forward
with the chain link, that is what we are going to do at the Hunts Bluff #2.
Kingsford: I think not only the burn issue but the fact that the boards have a
tendency to come loose, get kicked out and our big concern is the safety of
children in that area. So certainly it would be my recommendation that there be a
chain fink.
Goldsmith: Would rod iron be acceptable?
Kingsford: I would think that would be even more acceptable depending on its,
you know what its mesh might be.
Goldsmith: I don't have a problem re-doing that agreement and I don't think
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Meridian City Council
February 15, 1994
Page 10
Nampa Meridian would either.
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Morrow: I think I would have to be in favor of that because the issue here is that
we are doing away with the culvert for a safety issue because its a 60 inch culvert
for that ditch we are going to change the Ordinance down to 48 inches. With a
reasonably short period of time, meaning 5 years or less typically cedar fences
wouldn't provide that safety net that I think that we are after. And so I would
personally like to see either a chain link or a rod iron type of fence that is more ting
term and that the Homeowners Association that ultimately is responsible for caring
for it doesn't get eaten ative in annual installments to fix the fence. So, in order
for me to support it you would have to have that type of fencing.
Corrie: Mr. Mayor, I would like to suggest that perhaps we could get it all alike
along there if at all possible. Like you said in Hunts Bluff #2 and now this one
Goldsmith: Actually the first phase of Hunts #1 was done in cedar fencing, so I'm
more thank happy to switch over for you, whatever I can for you. The license
agreement is stating that this side of the Eight Mile Lateral which would be
northeast side is going to be paraltel with the ditch and it was calling out for there
to be each individual lot backing up into that having a fence run off the ditch
perpendicufar as well. So that is to be put around (inaudible), do you guys have
that license agreement, need it, I can send it over. I don't know if it is before
you?
Kingsford: I don't think 1 have seen it.
Berg: Its in the file
Kingsfiord: It is in the file. we didn't make copies of it which is typical, but we
have a copy.
Goldsmith: So whatever you guys need as far as alignment and whatever you
need as far as material not a probtem.
Kingsford: Any other questions for Mr. Goldsmith? Thank you, 1'll invite anyone
else from the public that would like to offer testimony on this issue. That is
Landfall, formerly Upland Meadows now Satmon Rapids. Seeing none I'll close the
public hearing, Council members.
Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I can support the Findings given the suitable fencing.
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Meridian City Council
February 15, 1994
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Kingsford: The appropriate motion then would be to catl for Findings of Fact and
Conclusions of Law.
Morrow: So Moved
Tolsma: Second
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Kingsford: Moved by Walt, second by Ron to have the City Attorney draw
Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law on the issue of Salmon Rapids, all those
in favor? Opposed?
MOTiON CARRIED: All yea
ITEM #13: PROCLAMATI~N: FFA WEEK:
Kingsford: I'm going to take a little executive privilege here and vary from the
agenda, I'd hat to keep the young man from the FFA up late. I'd like to proclaim
this week as FFA week. Whereas, the Future Farmers of America with vocational
agriculture education is a strong force for America's agriculture; and Whereas,
members of the FFA are playing an outstanding role in assuring the future progress
and prosperity of our nation; and Whereas, the FFA motto--"Learning to do, doing
to learn; earning to live, living to serve"-- gives direction of purpose to these future
leaders for tomorrow's agriculture; and Whereas, the FFA performs the valuable
service of developing leadership, encouraging cooperation, promoting good
citizenship, teaching modern information, and inspiring patriotism among its
members. Now, therefore t, Grant Kingsford, Mayor of Meridian declare the week
of February 18 - 22, 1994 as FFA Week and encourage everyone to do so and
remind the Council that the FFA is sponsoring a breakfast Friday morning 6:00 to
8:00 and encourage you to be there. Would you like to come forward and get
your proclamation.
ITEM #6 AND #9: PUBLIC HEARING: VARIANCE REQUEST AND REQUEST FOR
ANNEXATION AND ZONING WITH A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR KING
STREET STATION SUBDIVISION BY D.J. INVESTMENTS AND BRIGGS
ENGINEER{NG:
Kingsf~rd: 1'tt open the public hearing on items #6 & 9 with regard to King Street
Station. Item #6 a variance request for King Street Station and item #9 is a
request for annexation and zoning with a Conditional Use permit for King Street
Station submitted by D.J. Investments and Briggs Engineering. At this time I'll
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Meridian City Council
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invite the owner or his representative to begin first in the public hearing.
Crookston: I'm questioning the comment that this is an annexation, this in not an
annexation it is already in the City limits. I don't think you mis read that I think
that is what it reads, but I don't think that is correct.
Kingsford: Strike the annexation and zoning.
Crookston: Its a Conditional use what they are asking for.
Kingsford: ~kay, so the rest of that is relevant.
Crookston: The reason its a conditional use is that it is in Old Town and all uses
require a conditional use.
Kingsford: So does that require a preliminary plat? It doesn't, so everything else
on the agenda with regard to this public hearing is right, strike annexation and
zoning. So at this time the public hearing is open.
Becky Bowcut, Briggs Engineering, 1111 South Orchard, was sworn by the
Attorney.
Bowcut: Good evening Mr. Mayor and members of the Council. Basically what
we are proposing here is 20 units total which consists of 5 4-plex units and we
have submitted a conditional use application because it does lie within the Old
Town zone. The Old Town zone under its purpose statement allows medium to
high density multi-family and other mixed type commercial development. We are
proposing that each one of these units be platted as a single unit, its called pad
ptat where you would plat each unit so that potentially a person could buy lot 2
and they would own that unit. And the walls here would meet all the applicable
fire codes for fire walls. The code requires that we have 2 parking spaces per
dwelling which we do meet th~t with 40 total. originally when we submitted this
the Highway District stated that they did not want any connection to William
Street and so we submitted it without any connection here or at the street back
into Meridian Road. Then in mid-stream they changed their minds so we modified
the plan to reflect their change of heart. Instead they indicated William Street
does exist but we don't want it to proceed through Meridian Road and the reason
being is the close proximity of the Franklin and Meridian intersection. They don't
want another approach there for safety reasons. And because Meridian road is
going to be upgraded to a collector standard street and it my understanding that
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Meridian City Council
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the City has promoted that collector status. So what they said is since William
Street is paved for only a short distance, let's bring that up to minimum standards,
we'll require that you pave it from this point on up to where the existing asphalt
lies. which is roughly around a 100 feet. Then they will allow us one approach
here on King Street which is a local street and we have that entrance as far as we
can get it away from the intersection of King and Meridian road. Basically we are
utilizing about 10,800 square feet of building area and common area which will be
the landscaped areas here we are at 22,108 square feet approximately and then
we've got 17,811 square feet in hard surface. This would just be an access drive
and this there would be no connection here to Meridian road in any fashion and we
could landscape right through here. We did provide one handicapped parking
space I couldn't find that it was required in the code but we went ahead and did it
anyway. The developer plans on landscaping all along the perimeter here and
obviously on these islands. I kept the parking at least at a minimum of 5 feet from
adjoining unrelated parcels. As you can see here this building that lies right next
to us is almost on our property line so I've shifted that over to put a landscaping
strip through there. Now the Highway district was asking for a 45 foot dedication
from centerline of Meridian road, but when you come back 45 feet this building
sits at 40 feet, so it is going to take out this building right here. When I discussed
that with Mr. Sale they were unaware of how close that sat to the right of way.
So they changed their mind and said give us 40 feet from centerline of Meridian
road and as we clear these buildings here then have that taper down for the
intersection in the event that they ever improve the intersection. We do meet the
visual triangle here for the intersection with our structures and we will have to met
that standard with our landscaping so we don't plant something that would
prohibit visibility for someone pulling out on Meridian road. Now, in your code
there is no mention of any type of zero lot line type of development as far as a
subdivision is concerned and have your apartments which area zero lot tine but
somebody owns the entire building or a 4-plex which is similar. So, what we are
proposing here is, according to Mr. Forrey kind of new to the City of Meridian its
commonly done in other jurisdictions, normally through a conditional use or
planned unit development and it allows a little variety as far as housing is
concerned. Someone would own their own unit, they have a Homeowners
association with protective covenants, and they pay monthly dues or some pay
those on a yearly basis and that covers the cost of the maintenance of your
parking areas, your landscaping and so forth. And we will provide Mr. Crookston
with a copy of the protective covenants to make sure that all of these common
areas will be cared for and maintained properly and that the protective covenants
will assure that. One of the other things I wanted to mention, when I read through
Gary's comments, Gary made a comment to the effect that a conditional use
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Meridian City Councii
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Page 14
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permit is requested in difference to the Ordinance requirement for duplexes
requiring 800 square feet per unit with each unit having a 2 car garage. Each unit
is 2 story and they wiH have 1053 square feet if you combine both stories and
there is a colored rendering right there of the project and that is what the
structures wil{ look like from the front. Now when we met with Mr. Forrey one of
the things he was concerned with was the aesthetics to the rear of the buitding. If
we were to face the rear of this building, obviousfy these units face each other, he
wanted this since this was one of the entryways into the City to be aesthetically
pleasing so we have provided the City Clerk's office with elevation showing front
and rear and the rear isn't just a flat wall. I think I have that in my file and I can
show you that. As you can see they are reaf nice units, if everyone owns their
own it won't be just an apartment . Considering the mixed use in the area, we've
got some cammercia{ development over here, this is commerciaf here, this is a
contractors yard, there is some residential over here and I think in the Findings of
Fact and Conc{usions of Law an office was here at one time, a computer sales
office or something along that line. So it is a mixed area, I think this will fit in
wrell, it is compatibfe. We did have some site constraints that we had to deai with.
One of them is we have an overhead power line that runs through the site right
through here, and you can see this power pote here and here. I talked with Idaho
Power in length about what they were proposing to do with that or what they
would let us do with that. They indicated that we needed a horizontal clearance
from our structures 15 feet and we meet or exceed that at this time. And if we
were to move that structure because of that po1e, say we shifted it away from the
buildings then what happens is we shift it closer to this building and these
duplexes which tie right here. So there is no opportunity and its a transmission
line not a service line. So their recommendation was leave that transmission line
where its at and try work around it. The site doesn't have a lot of depth in it so
we have some constraints as far as getting our parking and our driveway in
through here. Now your code mentions that parking areas, 90 degree parking
areas will be 9 x 19 and I think this drawing is 9 x 18 but we can squeeze another
foot out of it. And then it indicates that the width of a driveway pile is 25 feet.
We're at 24 from this point to this point, and I think Gary referenced that as 44
foot total width so it incfudes the 25 foot travel iste and the 19 foot parking. But I
guess by argument that I think 24 foot would be adequate is there calculating
parking when you've peopte backing directly our here. Our parking has no parking
on the other side of it with the exception of these 2 here. These are the only ones
that are in alignment. So t think the 24 foot would be adequate, we've got local
access points for the fire Department they can get access here and here, they can
park here on King or here on Meridian Road. So it has access galore and f don't
think fire safety would be an issue with this type of development based on its
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Meridian City Council
February 15, 1994
Page 15
location at the intersection. One of the other issues was brought that Planning &
Zoning Commission was they seemed to be a little confused about the 2 car
garage. That has been brought up multiple times, and in your code under the
residential section, it references the 2 car garages but it stipulates all single family
detached housing units shall have a garage capable of housing 2 standard
automobiles and then under duplexes it states, duplex shall have a garage capable
of handling 2 standard sized automobites. l guess what I contend here is we are
not doing detached single family dwellings, nor are we doing duplexes but these
are very similar to an apartment building or a four-plex. So, 1 don't think the 2 car
garage standard is applicable under any of these circumstances, Now Planning &
Zoning Commission they seem to be confused about it and I think one of their
conditions was if this body deemed it necessary for 2 car garages and it required
any re-design that they wanted us remanded back foc their review, but I just don't
see #hat the 2 car garage is applicable. If covered parking is an issue, I can talk to
the developers concerning some carports so they woufd have some covered
parking for some of the units. There is sewer and water to the site in fact there is
a line coming across right here through the mid-section. There is an existing
hydrant, we will meet the requirements under the Ordinance for streetlights within
our tEnd of Tape). for the sidewafk along Meridian Road because ACHD has
Meridian Road upgrade on their 5 year plan so we will have to trust fund for the
expense of this sidewalk when they go in to re-do this the doftars will be fior the 5
foot sidewalk and then we will be required to expand King Street so that is meets
a minimum street width of a locat section which is 36 feet. And we will have to
put curb, gutter and sidewalk. Any ditches on the site we will have to pipe to
make sure that irrigation or drainage water that traverses will proceed on. As far
as ~ny site drainage we will retain that on site. Do you have any questions?
Kingsford: I have 2 or 3 comments or questions. Did you research William Street,
my recollection and this dates back some time ago so this might no be as sound
as I'd like to think. I think this body vacated William Street for a fairly long
portion, I think maybe the portion you are talking about improving, has that been
researched?
Bowcut: The Highway District indicated that there is public right of way there.
Now there was an old alley that ran through this site which ACHD said they had
no desire to u#ilize.
Kingsford: I thought that this body had vacated that street all the way to Meridian
road, which would just necessitate you being sure and if in fact it hasn't been I
don't believe you control part of that so that would be a major stumbling block for
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Meridian City Councii
February 15, 1994
Page 16
you.
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Bowcut: They ciaim that William Street which abuts the parcel has 60 feet of
right of way and is unimproved for approximately 100 feet east to the boundary
of this project. I can confirm that.
Kingsford: I'm on a bad roll, I've made 2 mistakes, this could be a 3rd one.
Bowcut: I'll make a note to make sure that I check that out.
Kingsfiord: A couple of comments, you had mentioned the common walls meeting
at least the building code, you need to also make sure there is separate water and
sewer service to each one of those. We do in fact have a zero lot line, not
necessarily a code, but the City has approved that, we re-did on Idaho and maybe
about 7th, those apartments and they went in and did a condominium.
Bowcut: This is very similar to a condominium, except they own the land under
the structure.
Kingsford: But that is basically what the classification would be.
Bowcut: That is what the concept is yes.
Kingsford: Any other questions Council?
Tolsma: 1 have one, how far is your asphalt on the south of the property?
Bowcut: It is roughly, it looks like its about 5 feet in through and then it narrows
up a little bit. Its about 4 here and then it transitions down to 2 and half at its
nose.
Tolsma: Would it be feasible to put up a barricade across there so that the
vehicles backing out of that do not back into the building across the way?
Bowcut: Yes you can do that with an extruded curb.
Tolsma: I have a property owner over there that mentioned it, that owns that
building across there that said he wasn't too sure how everything was going to be.
Bowcut: We could, you see we've got this large area right here, we could shift
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Meridian City Council
February 15, 1994
Page 17
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this because the parking could be closer to the transmission line, just the
structures can't. We could shift this over, normally what you want to see is a 5
foot so that you don't have any cars running into adjacent structures or
landscaping. We could shift this here and then expand that and then just bring
that curve just a little tighter.
Tolsma: He was concerned about somebody sticking a bumper into the wall of his
building or something like that.
Bowcut: We could go ahead and put an extruded curve there too and prohibit that
and the ext~uded curve would run like this to keep it from ~unning out on Meridian
road.
Tolsma: Now, your street then will utilize William Street then the way it sets right
now?
Bowcut: Basically the way its laid out is the main entrance is here and this is what
we want to promote the King Street entrance, but this would be like a secondary
access or emergency access. You know I can't say that somebody wouldn't if
they wanted to go to the grocery store over here possibly take that as a shortcut.
Tolsma: One other question, the City Police Department said he would like to
know about security lights.
Bowcut: Yes, we will be providing them , the code states says we have to
provide streetlights and gives standards for all parking areas. And so what we will
do is we'tt have to submit a plan to Gary indicating where our hydrants are focated
and our sewer and water and our streetlight locations.
Tolsma: The comments he had were on a 2 story building that they would be
really dark between the 2 sto~y building and that building to the south.
Bowcut: In through here?
Tolsma: Well, more on the other end of the parking area down here, he indicated
there that anywhere the lighting was that is could be a very dark area there and
was worried about it being too dark in there at night.
Bowcut: We'll discuss that with Gary and make sure we've got adequate lighting.
And they are going to have to have some paths through here and I'm not sure how
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Meridian City Council
February 15, 1994
Page 18
we are going to deal with those, if those are going to be concrete or some type of
brick path. And this doesn't reflect that but they will come and wind through the
entrance, come along here so they will have paths to walk out to their cars.
Corrie: Mr. Mayor, I would also suggest that you have no parking anywhere other
than the designated parking areas, because if you have cars parked along here you
will never get a fire truck through there.
Bowcut: A condition of approval for no parking signs would be acceptable based
on the width.
Kingsford: Any other questions from the Council?
Morrow: Yes, I want to re-visit the south property line, did you say you would
have a 5 foot setback there with an extruded curve.
Bowcut: Right here, yes we can shift this over so we've got adequate room to
shift and we can meet 5 feet.
Morrow: With an extruded curve
Bowcut: Yes
Kingsford: Any other questions from the Council? Counselor
Crookston: Becky, would you explain how your meeting the 35 foot setback along
Meridian road?
Bowcut: Now, I saw that in your Findings and Conclusions and basically from the
proposed right of way we are sitting at 15 on these to structures and this is at 10,
now how did you arrive at the 35?
Crookston: That is in our Comprehensive Plan
Bowcut: From Meridian road?
Crookston: For entrance ways to Meridian
Bowcut: Can we provide some type of landscaping plan for review by staff that
would be
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Meridian City Council
February 15, 1994
Page 19
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Crookston: The 35 feet apparently is going to cause you a little bit of hardship.
Bowcut: Its only 150 feet deep, I don't know where I'm going to get 35 feet I'll
put it that way.
Crookston: Well that is up to the Council but that would be my recommendation.
Bowcut: I saw that in there and I wondered where that was derived from.
Morrow: Your saying the buildings need to be set back 35 feet from the edge of
Meridian Road.
Crookston: 35 foot setback from the road right of way on entry way roads.
Meridian Road, Fairview, Cherry Lane, entry way corridors.
Bowcut: If you come back 35 feet from edge of right of way that would put it
right there. It would take up at least a third of that site as far as the 150 is
concerned.
Tolsma: What if we put the road in front.
Crookston: I beg your pardon
Kingsford: Their access
Bowcut: You mean put this here?
Tolsma: Reverse the plat, flip flop it
Bowcut: So then you would have a frontage road running parallel with Meridian
road~
Morrow: Well, you would have your parking lot and your driveway on the
Meridian road side and your buildings would be on the back side of your property
line. Just flopping the plan over.
Corrie: If they would allow you the entrance that close to Meridian Road.
Bowcut: We are sitting right now at about 160 feet from center to center from the
intersection. And 1 think that is the minimum requirement on a collector and local
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Meridian City Council
February 15, 1994
Page 20
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intersection. On the locals it is 125 and I'm trying to expand it.
Kingsford: One thing to consider is as you go along Meridian road the numbers of
those that are encroaching that 35 feet already, my suspicion is the bowling alley
is in the neighborhood of 20 feet, 25 fieet maximum there are others that are along
there. Certainly the new photography shop on the corner by Waltman Lane. Even
as you go across the tracks over here those buildings are significantly closer than
20 feet.
Bowcut: We wouldn't' be as close as the existing building here, which I don't
think has any landscaping along Meridian road. I think we could compensate with
landscaping to provide something that is pleasing to the eye.
Crookston: The reason I brought it up is because of the Comprehensive Plan and
we hav~ just adopted it but it needs to be addressed. We are requiring on new
developments where it is applicable. Just occurred in a hearing on Cherry Lane on
Linder on a rezone in that area, but they probably have room to do it. I just
wanted to raise thafi question before the Council so they can consider it.
Tolsma: Woufd ~this be applicable if the plan was submitted before the
Comprehensive Plan was adopted?
Crookston: No
Kingsford: Any other questions or comments from the Council? Thank you Becky,
anyone else from the public that would like to offer testimony on this issue?
Seeing none I wilt close the public hearing. Council members you need to direct
for findings.
Crookston: You do need findings on the variance.
Kingsford: I would suspect even on #he conditional use based on some of the
things the Council has brought up, even the 2 car garage issue.
Tolsma: So moved
Corrie: Second
Kingsford: Moved by Ron, second by Bob to have the Attorney prepare Findings
of Fact and Conclusions of Law on the variance request and conditional use
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Meridian City Council
February 15, 1994
Page 21
request for King Street Station,
!
Morrow: I have a question, are we dealing now with one variance, or I kind of
counted basically 4 variances that we are after here, the zero lot line, if we are
going have the street width less than Ordinance in terms of the 24 feet to the 23
feet to staH instead of 18 to 19, and then the 2 car garages, so we are really doing
4 variances.
Kingsford: And the setback issue, those variances. Any other discussion, all
those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All yea
ITEM #7 & 10: PUBLIC HEARING: VARIANCE REQUEST FOR SCOTTSDALE
ESTATES SUBDIVISION BY ROBERT AND VERNA CHRISTENSEN AND BRIGGS
ENGINEERING; PUBLIC HEARING: ANNEXATION AND ZONING WfTH A
PRELIMINARY PLAT FOR SCOTSDALE ESTATES SUBDIVISION BY ROBERT AND
VERNA CHRISTENSEN AND BRIGGS ENGINEERING:
Kingsford: At this time I'll open the public hearing and invite the owner or his
designee to speak first.
Bowcut: This is the proposed Scotsdale Estates Subdivision, we have 27 lots,
there is approximatety 5.78 acres on the site. The property is located on Franklin
road right here in this cross hatched area. The adjacent development here, these
are all 4-plex units, we have some duplexes and then some single family dwellings
and then across the street we have some commercial and there is a mini storage
as you go east on Franklin road. Initially we talked to Mr. Forrey about what we
envisioned on this parcel and he indicated that he saw some type of residential
that would be compatible with what is out there. Basically as you head west it
turns into just straight residential development and that the Comprehensive Plan
would not promote any commercial development even though we did have
commercial across the street. So the developer and his sons decided that they
would go with a patio home and try to create what they called a retirement
community. The existing R-4 zone would not accommodate the smatler lot sizes
that we would need so we are ~equssting a rezone from R-4 to R-15. However we
are not utilizing the density that they R-15 allows. Basically, we also had to do a
variance on this one too for the zero lot line. They would build a patio home that
would sit it would meet the front and rear setbacks and one of the sideyard
setbacks. And the patio home would sit on a lot basically in this fashion and then
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Meridian City Council
February 15, 1994
Page 22
a person would purchase this particular lot. They are going to be one story units
for retired senior citizens on a smaller lot, the lots range in about 5300 square feet
so they wouldn't have a lot of yard to take care of. We are proposing public
streets, curb, gutter, sidewalk. There is sewer over here and water and there is
water out here on Franklin Road. There is an existing stub street here from these
4 plexes which {ie alf along our east boundary. We would connect to the stub
street and then extend it on up to Franklin road. There is an existing house on the
property which will remain on this larger lot here and then this shop will obviously
be removed. There is the Eight Mile Drain used to traverse this property through
here, when they put in these 4-plexes here they put in a 52 inch concrete pipe and
that pipe runs right through here and comes here and then it goes into a concrete
structure and there is a retaining wall and then goes under Franklin road. Now I
hope we wouldn't have problem trying to pipe this here with that existing
concrete culvert. I'm not sure how your tiling requirement would be applicable.
Any of the other ditches which traverse the parcel will be piped and there is a
ditch that runs down this east boundary it tooks like it comes out here and then it
says bury ditch here and it looks iike it goes under Franklin road and heads to the
north. So we will make sure any irrigation water will proceed on. I think that this
is going to be a nice development, it adds a little diversity out there since we do
have some 4-plexes here and we have duplexes here and single family are
compatible. We are asking for this rezone to R-15 and are not taking advantage of
that density by any means. Now when we originally submitted this one of the
concerns af Planning and Zoning Commission was the assurance that these lots
because they are only 53 feet wide they wanted the assurance that this would be
what we are proposing. That the developer wouldn't sell each one of these and
then have some builder come to the City of Meridian and say I want to put a
house here but I can't make the setback on the sideyard. So basically violate the
intent ofi the development. The developer is the Christnesen brothers and they
build homes in this area and they will be building all of these units. So basically to
assure the Planning & Zoning Commission that it wouidn't happen I agreed to
design review prior to the issuance of any permits so that they can be assured the
patio homes will be built in compliance with what we proposed originally. The
developers did have one request when I brought this in we indicated 27 lots, and
because of the odd shape of the parcel we have these lots right here and here and
here. We ended up with kind of an odd number with culdesac lots, so they asked
me ~fter the Planning & Zoning Commission hearing can we put a duplex on one of
these lots since they are so large, I've got one that is 10,000, these are 7,000 and
this 8,200 and 8,900 and I think in that R-15 zone it requires a minimum lot size
of 2,400 square feet which would be 54 square feet per unit. Now I'm not sure,
our application states 27 units so basically they have asked for 5 additional units
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Meridian City Council
February 15, 1994
Page 23
and I'm not sure the City of Meridian will handle that. I did talk to Mr. Forrey
about it later and he said to discuss that with Council at this time. The zoning for
the R-15 would allow it but the units would be more than what we represented.
we'd still be hovering at 4.6 units to the acre and I think it puts us at 5.5 or
something like that. So we still have pretty low density and I guess that would be
a decision that Council would have to make.
Kingsford: Well, I think the concern that I would have there is you are making a
transition from a higher density to a lower density and then you are coming back
up with duplexes. As you look to the west there, all your condos, duplexes I think
they are townhouses. And so you would be putting up against a nice
condominium or townhouse you'd be putting up a duplex which ~ think is poor
zoning.
Morrow: I think my comments with respect to that are if you are looking to add 5
additional units it ought to go back through the whole process and let Planning &
Zoning because it does substantially change the characteristics of the project.
Bowcut: It does basically what we represented when we submitted was the zero
lot line and I indicated that we did have some odd lots which would accommodate
some single family which would be these larger lots. And they in mid-stream kind
of changed their mind.
Morrow: I don't think I'd be willing to go along with any change to get it out on
the table is for 2 reasons. One is in protection of the units to the west in terms of
transition and secondly if it is going to be changed it ought to be rightfully re-
submitted through the process and let J+m's guys have a shot at it and go from
there.
Bowcut: That is acceptable and I will relay that information to them.
Kingsford: Anymore questions for Ms. Bowcut?
Morrow: I have a question, now your setbacks on Franklin road, your aware of
the design work that is going on now and that design incorporates the design for
Franklin Road?
Bowcut: We've got this is, from this point to this point is 45 feet from center line
and our tots start 60 from center line. And we can afford to shift if we have to
shift those lots. I need to discuss this easement with Nampa Meridian Irrigation
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Meridian City Council
February 15, 1994
Page 24
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District about that pipe. They may need a little additional room and like I said I've
got a large lot here and we can shift that down.
Morrow: I just need you to be sensitive to the fact that the design contract for th~
redesign of Franklin road has been faid and those guys are now working on that,
the design proposal for that. So Larry Sale or Steve Specklemier would be the
ones most familiar with what is going on with Franklin road.
Bowcut: Larry reviewed the project and did a staff report and indicated that woutd
be upgraded and asked for trust funding for sidewalk on Franklin road.
Kingsford: Any other questions Council? Thank you, is there anyone else from
the public that would like to offer testimony on this issue?
Ralph Patey, 1000 Crestwood Circle, was sworn by the Attorney.
Patey: Mr. Mayor and members of the Council, I'd like to point out something that
perhaps is already history and concrete which is too bad. This the only size of this
development that I can show you, but if you will look on here you will see
something called Fenway Park. Which is all of this development here, over here
the Crestwood Estates. Between what is already laid out and what is being
developed at the present time by Fenway Park clear out to the end of this you are
looking at over 215 homes. That area there is the next phase of Fenway Park,
right now its a blank, but you can see (inaudible) street comes along here, there is
an established sewer line that exists right across here. The developer of Fenway
Park has already tied onto that sewer. You can see that we've got a tremendous
number of homes here, there are 50 units, single family units in Crestwood #1,
and 2 and on 3, 4 and 5 takes in a11 of this. The problem that we are seeing is in
(inaudible) for 200 hundred single family homes. Many of these homes have
children, in Crestwood #1, Block number 18 here is a public park dedicated
common area. Lots 14 and 15 are dedicated as common area, they are mowed
grass playgrounds both of those. The only way out of this whole mess is that
little lane right there through us. This street here which heads southeast called
Fenwood and goes out over here and stubs out against a field and then you can
take 7th and get to Franklin and your other option is find your way and all the cars
that are coming from there right now with very few exceptions unless they are
going to Nampa or have business westward are all coming out 12th. Now this
street here as we understand it as I say truncated at this point because that is as
far as he's got permission to cut lots, but that street there is aimed right at this as
an egress. So, that alt of this is going to come up that ittly bitty lane and pass
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Meridian City Gouncii
February 15, 1994
Page 25
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those 2 playgrounds, kids are running across the streets all the time its a quiet
neighborhood, really a great neighborhood as it is. Over here comes a
development next to us and there is no connection between this and that very few
people (inaudible) Boise and come back every night they have to come if they are
going out this way fine, they aren't going to be going southwest to get back
north. That is a safety lane that is about all that thing could be called right there a
safety lane in case you've got an obstruction here. So, there is no way out of atl
of those 215 houses unless somebody wants fio go all the way to Linder and then
up to Franklin and then back and how many are going to do #hat, darn few. We
have President of Crestwood 3, 4 and 5 Jack Edwards, he is sitting back there.
He happens to live right here on this lot and when he heads for town he goes that
way to 12th and he is clear over here. So, (inaudiblel that close to that situation
he still uses these, I do too, that is a natural thing, t'm trying to go eastward. The
only way out for this whole mess is down that itty bitty artery that you see on that
map and what we are talking about now is why in the world can't there be some
other way to get out of here. This Penwood thing is a joke, it might serve a few
homes right in here to get onta 7th, but we talking from 7th to 12th that is 5
blocks with not egress. From the fire stations standpoint, safety of any kind that
is poor, that is bad. If there was any kind of an emergency in that neighborhood
and one of the street was obstructed you've got some reat big problems, real harry
problems. So, I think you need to take another took at this. The second thing I'd
like to point out is and you raised it earlier with one of your earlier hearings is the
ditch all the way across here is unfenced, no protection for kids and this is a flock
of kids neighborhood. Why that is that way, I have no idea but I just point that
out as another problem that exists. That is all I have to say, I can answer any
questions.
Kingsford: Ralph, your proposal then basically is to have another street go out of
your subdivision.
Patey: Some way get some more egress to Franklin, that is what we are talking
about.
Kingsford: Thank you, anyone else from the public?
Kent Shepard, 104 Crestwood, was sworn by the Attorney.
Shepard: I just have basically one point of interest that I wanted to concentrate
on with he development. We've lived on the property its a newly developed home
for about 2 years. Our property lines, the paperwork shows that the property line
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Meridian City Council
February 15, 9 994
Page 26
stands about 10 feet past a small drainage ditch that runs down the westside of
the property and my concern is that when the new property is developed will we
be able to retain that property. Currently I erected a fence along the ditch line to
keep my children from playing in the irrigation ditch, it is a small ditch but it
occasionally does bring in back up water or something of that nature. I wanted to
get a ctarification on that and to know whether or not this ditch will be piped and
if I will be able to obtain the last 10 feet of my property iine.
Kingsford: Ms. Bowcut you said that all the ditches would be piped on that in the
interior is that right?
Bowcut: Yes, he is talking about the west side?
Shepard: Yes, it is approximately behind you've got on the west side properties
#4 and 5, we are right along here.
Bowcut: I show a ditch but that is outside our boundary. When we did our
boundary we matched up what, we got a copy of your subdivision plat and
matched our legal description with that.
Shepard: There are some stakes now along the property line and then there are a
bunch of trees along that ditch line and it was my understanding that we could
not, that the drainage ditch had to have public access and so we've placed that
fence line along our side of the ditch instead of covering part of that ditch. Is this
ditch going to be my responsibility to go ahead and pipe in and fill in.
Kingsford: Well, its solely on your property as I understand this discussion, so its
your property with an easement in favor of the users of that ditch.
Shepard: And the users of the ditch apparently are the landscapers so to my
understanding we'll be able to go ahead and pipe in that ditch at least our portion.
Kingsford: I would remind under our Ordinance that it is your obligation to keep
that ditch clear whether its piped or open. You have to clear it but you can
certainly pipe it.
Shepard: That is all I have.
Morrow: Excuse me Mr. Mayor, I have a question, if this is a drainage ditch does
it drain the properties adjacent to it? The question would be on a drainage ditch
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Meridian City Council
February 15, 1994
Page 27
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whether you can pipe a drainage ditch if that surface drainage from the adjacent
propertiss.
Shepard: I don't know if it actually drains or if it is irrigation it comes off of the
large ditch that runs along.
Kingsford: My recollection is that it is at the surface, its not going to take water in
if that is your question from drainage. I think he is saying that basically it drains
the water that collects up stream.
Shepard: Correct and its just coming down and in fact it had water just twice this
last spring it wasn't during a rainy time or anything, it was a dry time of the year
and it had some back up water come into it from the main ditch line.
Kingsford: This shouldn't be a drain ditch if it is designated a drain ditch you
would have to have a permit for you to pipe on the top.
Shepard: Okay, thank you
Morrow: You might suggest to him that the people he needs to talk to about that
would be Nampa Meridian.
Kingsford: They handle both drainage and water ditches. Anyone else that would
like to offer testimony on this variance request? Seeing none t will close the
public hearing, Council members.
Crookston: There is additional testimony on this, you need new findings.
Tolsma: So moved
Corrie: Second
Kingsford: Moved by Ron, second by Bob to prepare Findings of Fact and
Conclusions of Law any discussion? All those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
Kingsford: Becky, wasn't this going to be a fish pond at one time? It feels like
the Council had a hearing on this once before and we're going to have a fishing
pond out there, whatever happened to that thing? I was thinking about going
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Meridian City Council
February 15, 1994
Page 28
back into fishing. The action is the Attorney will prepare Findings of Fact based
on all of the testimony including the new testimony this evening. Those will then
be considered at the next regular Council meeting.
{TEM #8: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A
DAY CARE BY LESLIE PALMER:
Kingsford: At this time I'll invite Leslie Palmer to come forward and begin the
testimony and open the public hearing.
Leslie Palmer,1524 Meridian Road, was sworn by the Attorney.
Palmer: Good evening, what I am planning on doing is opening a day care center
and providing a service for pre-school aged children from 2 1/2 to kindergarten
age. What I would like to do is license for 40 but I would like my full capacity to
be at 30, I just want that extra leeway for my own children. We are just going to
take kindergartners that go to the Meridian Elementary because we are going to be
so small we are not going to be transporting all over the place. I'm probably going
to have 3 to 4 care givers working for me.
Kingsford: Any questions of Mrs. Palmer?
Yerrington: Do you run another business out of this location?
Palmer: I have a built in vacuum business, and we just have an office there, but it
is mostly telephone and a shop in the back that we keep our inventory in. It is
completely separate from the day care from the house area.
Kingsford: Is it your intention then to fence the front part of that to use for that?
Pa{mer: The front, we have talked with Larry and got everything they need from
us at Ada County Highway District. The front will just be parking and drive so it
wili be off the street, the back is already fenced with 6 foot cedar fencing and it is
completely separate where there is no way that children can get out. My own can
not get out, so it is already separate.
Kingsford: Any other questions?
Yerrington: How deep is your lot?
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Meridian City Council
February 15, 1994
Page 29
Palmer: My lot is 200 feet deep.
Yerrington: Fine, thank you.
Kingsford: Thank you, anyone else from the public that would like to offer
testimony on this conditional use permit? Seeing none I will close the public
hearing.
Tolsma: Mr. Mayor, I move we approve the Findings of Fact and Conctusions of
Law.
Yerrington: Second
Kingsford: Moved by Ron, second by Max to approve the Findings of Fact and
Conclusions of Law prepared for P& Z, roll call vote.
ROLL CALL VOTE: Morrow: Yea, Yerrington: Yea, Corrie: Yea, Tolsma: Yea
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
Kingsford: Is there a motion on the Conditional Use?
Morrow: Move the approve.
Tolsma: Second
Kingsford: Moved by Walt, second by Ron to approve the Conditional Use permit
for Leslie Palmer, roll call vote.
ROLL CALL VOTE: Morrow: Yea, Yerrington: Yea, Corrie: Yea, Tolsma: Yea
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
ITEM #11: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR ANNEXATION AND ZONING WITH
A PRELIMINARY PLAT FOR VALERI HEIGHTS SUBDIVISION BY VICKIE WELKER
AND HUBBLE ENG{NEERING:
Kingsford: I"II now open the public hearing on that issue and invite Vickie to come
forward and begin the testimony.
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Meridian City Council
February 15, 1994
Page 30
Vickie Welker, 1145 West State, was sworn by the Attorney.
Welker: I have a number of issues on this apptication i'd iike to address. The
original intention of this subdivision we submitted this application on the first day
of the moratorium last May or June. The original intention of this subdivision is for
it to be a small private exclusive subdivision with a park in the middle to be
maintained by a Homeowners Association and the use of the park to be only for
homeowners. This will be 16 lots, a minimum of 10,000 square foot lots going up
to 20,000 and the homes will be the larger higher end homes much of what you
see in the parade o# homes. The first issue I would like to ask the Mayor, I am
required in the preliminary plat requirements to tile the ditch, I was going to put in
an application for the variance such as they did on Park side Creek but I
understand you are in the process of putting together an amendment to amend the
Ordinance so the applications are no longer necessary, so I needed to ask am I
supposed to do an application or is that being taken care for me or what it your
wish?
Kingsford: I would suggest that you probably go ahead with the application, so
you would be that far along when we get that Ordinance changed. What is the
size of that ditch Vickie7
Welker: Its over 48 inches, so it comes under the fencing requirements that you
are now doing. It is the Eight Mile Lateral. Its the same one that Parkside Creek
had, I'm just on the other side of Ten Mite from that. So, it is my intention not to
tite, it is my intention to fience it and we do plan to use a 6 foot chain link fence,
however I might tell you that chain link is easier for kids to get across because I
used to do it as a kid.
Kingsford: I think though technically a kid that can get across a chain link fence is
also going to be able to better handle a ditch. We are more concerned with the
younger ones.
Welker: Well that is what our intention is to do the chain link and f don't have a
problem with doing a concrete foundation along the bottom of it where kids can't
or animals cannot dig under it if so requested. The park is planned to have
parking, we do not plan to put a sidewalk because it is a private park for the use
of the homeowners only. We do plan to 1et the homeowners park around it
because its for the use of the homeowners and their own parking only. I do not
have a problem with putting no parking signs on the corners where access to the
main entrances are so that the visibifity is not deterred for that purpose, if that is
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Meridian City Council
February 15, 1994
Page 31
what you want done. Do you want me to point out the locations that I have in
mind?
Corrie: This is not a sidewalk here, this is a sidewalk here, but there is nothing
here? So its 36 feet from the sidewafk to the edge of the park (End of Tape)
Kingsford: Is that the same plat Vickie as we have?
Welker: Yes
Kingsford: We're having a reaf prob(em with some of these submitails in that the
maps keep changing.
Corrie: This is the other one we had, there was no park on it at that time. So,
what do you have coming up here, just nothing?
Welker: Just nothing, we were going to put a curve around it but not a sidewalk,
because the owners want natural landscaping (inaudibley and potentially put a
pond and a fountain in the park area for the residents.
Tolsma: Its another 7 feet from here to here then.
Welker: If you feel the road is too narrow, I suppose we can discuss that.
Because its private we didn't feel it needed to be a larger road because we are not
planning on anyone going through it from the other subdivision and that is the next
stage to discuss.
Corrie: So this is a private road not dedicated to the County?
Welker: No, it is dedicated to the County.
Corrie: Well, its not a private road then.
Welker: I mean private use of the subdivision, its not a private road. Because you
only have residents on one side atl the way around, its not intended that there
would be public parking out there, it would only be if the residents park there.
Kingsford: Well, virtually sidewalks are on both sides when you look at it from
that standpoint.
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Meridian City Council
February 15, 1994
Page 32
Corrie: Are you going to have gate type of entrance ta keep it private?
Welker: I don't know if it will have a closed gate, but it will be I'm planning on
(inaudible) with very tall tower type gate looking entrance so it looks private and
very exclusive. I do intend to put chain link fence around the entire subdivision
not just the ditch area.
Kingsford: Certainly, if its a public street you wouldn't be able to
Welker: Right, but we could fence it, it has to remain open. It will F~ave the look
as if it could be done that way. It is what we are planning. So, we don't want to
use the sidewalk for the park, and we do not a problem with no parking signs.
(Inaudible) on these corners here so that (inaudible) onto the main road is not cut
off. I don't see any other spot than these 3 corners.
Kingsford: What is the normal culdesac radius?
Tolsma: Well, we are 50 feet from south to here, there is a curve in there 3 feet
wide.
Welker: On the culdesac we would put no parking signs there, we wouldn't want
anybody parking on the inside of that culdesac. And we have reduced the size of
the culdesac by 3 feet to accommodate the concerns of the fire department and
the disposal trucks as well.
Morrow: You are talking on the radius on what amounts to block 1, a 50 foot
radius for the overall culdesac and the interior deal is a 20 faot radius. So that
leaves the effective use of the road at 30 feet.
Weiker: No, 23 I fihink.
Morrow: So, your 50 foot is to the back of the sidewalk7
Welker: Yes, so it should be a sufficient turnaround there. We wanted a larger
culdesac again for landscaping purposes. Now, with regard to the request with
the Highway District on the south stub street, this was discussed with Larry Sale
at the last Planning and Zoning meeting and also discussed with Planning and
Zoning because of the exclusive use we want to the subdivision we do not want a
stub street to the south and this has been discussed with Mr. Fuller who is the
owner to the south and he does not request or require a stub street to his
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Meridian City Council
February 15, 1994
Page 33
property. currently he owns 14 acres on the corner of Ten Mile and Pine, he is
planning on holding 10 acres for future development and because he has access to
both roads he does not need a stub street into our subdivision. We do not want
public access in there except off of Ten Mile because of the planning that we are
trying to do the Marketing theory that we are trying to use for this subdivision. I
would however not have an objection in taiking to Wayne Forrey this afternoon, I
would not have an objection to having a 10 foot easement between some of the
lots there or between 2 of the lots there to provide pedestrian or bicycle pathway
so the children can go through that on through to the next subdivision when
developed to get over to the high school on Pine Street rather than going down ten
Mile to Pine. I don't have a problem with doing that. And also I do have to work
out the fencing and requirements with Mr. Fuller with regard to the ditch that he
has that runs on the south side of our property. He has a little ditch that is on his
property which would not be affected by us but we would make sure that our
fence was far enough back from that so he doesn't have difficulty keeping the
weeds down and keeping care of that. And I will work with him to show him
what kind of a fence we are going to put in and how that is going to be done and
whether or not we would need to concrete under it or just exactly how we would
do that to satisfy him. The sewer easement we have already provided, there has
been a discussion of access to the gentleman to the east of us who has the
property east of the Eight Mile Laterat and we are providing a 20 foot sewer
easement that will be fenced and will be in accordance with my discussion with
Gary Smith, we will be putting pit run and gravel in there but it is a finished
easement and it will be fenced off and we will provide a manhole out by the
Lateral so that when the sewer needs ta come across there the manhole is already
there and they don't have to dig up that easement or that area to provide for it. I
was to work with Gary on the final engineering, I would however like to make, I
don't have a problem with that being a condition of this approval but I would like
to request that if during the final engineering design we find that the landowner
has made arrangements or finds access to sewer from another direction that my
easement if it is not required by him if he doesn't need it. Which would make our
lots larger again and not have to do that improvement if it is not needed by his
property. He does have access to other properties, whoever inserts sewer and its
also the whatever comes first situation. We will have a homeowners association
which will take care of the maintenance of weeds and the 30 foot easement out to
the road, we have already provided the 40 foot right of way from the center of
Ten Mile for the Highway District, 20 feet of which we would be maintaining until
they are ready to use it and 15 feet additionally that we have for our own
easement where we will put our own landscaping and entry fence to make the
project more exclusive. I have a question in here, it was noted on the Highway
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Meridian City Council
February 15, 1994
Page 34
~
District letter that says the site is across Ten Mile from the (inaudible) new
elementary school and the access layout for the school could be compromised due
to my entrance. No one has brought that up to me and I don't know whether that
is a problem if it has been resolved or what, perhaps you could bring me up to
speed on that.
Kingsford: Do you have a comment on that either Wayne or Bruce?
Forrey: Mr. Mayor, members of the Council, in a meeting with Dan Mabe this
morning at 9:00 he indicated that would probably have that school developed
within the next 5 years and sooner if the demand presented itself, but that was on
th~ schedule. Sometime between now and the next 5 years it would be there so
at least from the school district standpoint that issue is resolved. They have a site
and they have a schedule.
Kingsford: How did it fit in with relationship to this plat, again with regard to foot
traffic is that the proper place for that foot traffic?
Forrey: Yes it would be, the layout here is fine for the school because it is on the
other side of Ten Mile road. Our concern on the south was for the high school
future linkage onto the property on the south side to go between subdivisions
because there is not stub street shown to the south in this revised layout.
Although that was a point of discussion at the Planning and Zoning Commission.
Welker: I'm sorry I thought they were talking about the new school across the
street on Ten Mile as opposed to the south, so I misunderstood that.
Kingsford: Does that answer your question then?
Welker: Yes, it does. Okay, last but not least is the with the stub street to the
south that the last Planning & Zoning hearing Larry Sale said that tF~e Highway
District would not have a problem with eliminating the south stub street as long as
the City Council was in agreement that what we were doing satisfied them. So
that is my request. Any questions?
Kingsford: Questions from the Council? Mr. Morrow
Morrow: Yes, I want to revisit this so that it is clear in my mind on this item #7
underneath the Findings of ~act, this side is across Ten Mile road from the
proposed new elementary school and if this proposed street location is approved
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Meridian City Councii
February 15, 1994
Page 35
•
the access layout for the school could be compromised due to the intersection off
set requirements. The City of Meridian shauld coordinate with school district for
the school access layout and determine whether they want to allow the layout for
this project to be apposed. Now if I'm interpreting that correctly what the
discussion Mr. Forrey just had this is that the 2 roads don't line up directly, we
were talking with respect to paths or something like that. And if the school is
going to locate a site there sometime between now and 5 years do they have a
layout for their entry road to the school site and so how does that apply to item
#7? If she is going to do her project first then the school would have to design
their access around what she has atready got, is that correct?
Forrey: That would be correct.
Morrow: So that is how we as a City would choose to handle it, she is there first
so the school comes later and they can design to her project. That is the only
question I have.
Kingsford: Any other questions? Is there anyone etse from the public that would
like to offer testimony?
Coe Parker, 2930 West Pine, was sworn by the Attorney.
Parker: I have the property that is directly across the Eight Mile Lateral and my
concern is that t have a piece of land tocked property here and I wanted to make
sure I have an access to the sewer and water. I had Hubble Engineering draw up
a proposed preliminary ptat and he I think is also the engineer that did the Valeri
Heights subdivision and I hadn't seen this until today when he drew it for me but I
would like to show you. This is the Lateral and this is my property here. ! have a
lane here that is just an easement, f don't own the property. Haven Cove is here
and (inaudible) is here. So I'm completely land locked here and I need access to
sewer and water is.
Kingsford: When you say land locked your just talking about land locked in regard
to sewer.
Parker: (Inaudible) they have a stub street here but I think its down here
someplace. This property (inaudible).
Kingsford: Hubble has shown this exit out at this point here.
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Meridian City Council
February 15, 1994
Page 36
C~
Parker: Yes, I need some sort of exit out of this property here and something
here. I talked to Eddy and he says he has no problem with it, but there is a street
here someptace but 1'm not sure where it is.
Corrie: It doesn't line up with Haven Cove where you have it at the top?
Parker: I don't think its here.
Corrie: So, in other words you could adjust your lots to go to that.
Parker: This property has a stub street into it.
Kingsford: Most likely then what we would ask you to do with regard to the
sewer easement is do the same thing as Valeri Heights is proposing is have a
graveled aecess, easement for the City to operate a sewer line if it goes between
lots. We are very skeptical of sewer between lots, w must have plenty access and
something we don't have a weed problam with.
Freckleton: Mr. Mayor, one thi~g w have special requirements, we don't allow
easements we require 20 foot wide lot that is owned and maintained by the
homeowners association.
Kingsford: Well, it would stitl have tb b~ an ~~serrier~t, I rri~ari if itS ~ h6ririe6w~i~r~s
lot w~ ~till Nav~ td Fiave ar~ e~~~rr~erit tc~ ~~~~~~ it. Coun~il h~v~ any ~u~sti~ns f~r
Cbe?
Mbrrow: 1 have one c~u~~tibn, ybu Fi~ve no bbj~~ti6ri tb th~ del~tior~ bf tt~e stu~i
str'eet as ~~r the re[~uest fc~r Val~ri H~ight~?
Parker': To the south, no.
Kingsford: Any~r~e ~Ise from th~ pu151i~ tt~2~t wbuld like tb offer testiriri~riy br~ tl~is
issue?
D~ve Fuiler, 890 Ten Mil~, w~s sw~rn by th~ Attb~r~~y.
Fuller: I'rr~ the c~r~~ th~y ~r~ talking ab~ut th~t is sdutt~ ~f tF~~ pr~iperty that ~t~e
w~nts tb d~v~top. I wr6t~ her ~ tetter s~yir~g th~t I didn't ~are ~bout stu~ibing tY~e
~tre~t ir~ or ~ny#hinc~, k~ut if y~u guy~ ~tudy tt~i~ property ari~! ev~rytNi~ig its gdirtg
to develop and its gc~ir~g tb dev~lop ~~or~. If st~e builds r`~al ~xp~nsiv~ horri~s her~
r1
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Meridian City Cauncil
February 15, 1994
Page 37
•
and the we don't ptan on it in the future they are not all going to be reai expensive
homes in that area. If you looked at all of them around in that area a lot of them
are mid-range homes I would say. So, I would just request that you guys look
over this and plan Parkers deal, and I've got a big corner there. There is another
gentleman here that is a neighbor that he is going to have property to develop too.
And I don't have any paperwork to show you right off the bat but you just need to
plan what is best for the City on this deal, keep it in mind because that whole
corner is going to develop. With the school and with the traffic and if she wants
to put in a gate so the kids can walk through the subdivisions that is fine with me
but the streets is kind of what I'm concerned about, its going to happen quick and
should have some planning done to it. Not just on individual subdivision basis
maybe it should have more of a comprehensive type deal for the whole corner.
That is all I have, any questions?
Tolsma: I have one, your property abuts Pine Street and Ten Mile?
Fuller: Yes, I have the largest portion on the corner.
Tolsma: So you have ingress and egress on your property, that is what I thought
it was.
Futler: So they can back the subdivisions up back to back if you want without
having through streets if that is in the Comprehensive Plan. Its up to you guys,
from what this other gentleman gave an instance earlier about a different situation
you didn't have enough ins and outs, I'm kind of concerned a little bit about that
too. She did say she would work with me on the fencing, I operate a small farm
there right now and there is going to be a big easement field, so 1 have to work
out something with Nampa Meridian Irrigation. Where they put the fence or bury
the ditch on whoever's side it is is going to be up to them to take care o# it. They
are going to have to work with us on that, she said she would.
Corrie: Mr. Mayor, a minor question. Do you plan on devefoping that yourself or
selling it and having it developed, because you mentioned size of homes and cost
of homes, are you planning on doing that yourself?
Fuller: Yes, I have plans for the property other than residential, but the Council
doesn't really like that, 1 wanted storage buildings. So I know it is going
residential, 1'm just saying if you put them real fancy homes there, when we go to
develop, I've already offered it to some developers at a price to sell so it is going
to happen and if they try to stop me from developing in the future because they've
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Meridian City Councii
February 15, 1994
Page 38
got real fancy homes and the other developers want to put in more smaller homes
and smaller lots I'm just concerned about what your overall plan is. It needs to be
taken into account.
Morrow: If I could make a comment there, quite frankly there is no way that we
as the City Council can mandate what type of housing goes in what area from our
City standpoint it is nice to have some more upper scale housing. We've got a ton
of entry level housing and that type of thing and from the tax base and those
areas it would be nice to have upper scale stuff. The people who basically make
that judgement call would be you the landowner or the developer you choose to
sell to and his operation. So actually you would have more control of that than do
we. It would nice from our standpoint to see a continuation of upper scale
housing in that area or at least middle income and up type of housing. So, I think
with the size that Ten Mile will ultimately be as a street and the fact that I believe
Pine Street is designated a collector that we won't see the types of problems with
respect that we are seeing in the center valley area that the gentleman earlier was
referring to. Also there is a major redesign of Franklin road being done as speak
now and so that will solve a lot of the issues with respect to that area too.
Fuller: I guess what I was referring to was if you build a 5200,000 lot right next
one they want to build maybe a S 120,000 onto this association that is going to be
there already in place is going to come back over and say no. There is going to be
some rebuttal there and the S120,000 that you thought maybe entry level in
California but a lot of people here that all they can afford that is high standard. so
I wanted to bring that to your attention, planning for the area for the future.
Kingsford: Your viewpoint is well taken there Dave. I've had experience that the
neighbors are in and what they typically like to see is more expensive and not less
expensive. I think what Walt is saying is their zoning might be R-4 they will have
to meet those zoning requirements whatever it is, but we can't dictate the price
level.
Fuller: I understand that
Kingsford: Now we might have something happen as has happened in the area
south of the freeway that maybe there would be a rural transition or something of
that nature, but certainly we will try to work those out as compatible as possible.
Fuller: Just a question to you then with her private type subdivision which you
know I kind of like myself but that's what I will be putting in too, a private type
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Meridian City Council
February 15, 1994
Page 39
subdivision that in non-connecting it will probably loop clear around from Pine to
Ten Mile in a loop type situation but as the City Council and the streets go, you've
got to make that decision I can't.
Kingsford: And of course we will look at that as well as the Highway district and
also with some real concern about land locking anybody. Anyone else from the
public?
Welker: Just an additional comment perhaps for City Council's information as well
as Mr. Fuller's when a developer decides to put in a very exclusive subdivision and
you are not sure what is going to go around you it is more my obligation or
responsibility to buffer against that as I plan with my amenities and putting my
buffers so that my homeowners don't have a problem with what comes in the
future regardless of what it might be, because I can't control that. That will be
more my job to do as a developer than it will be the next developer to buffer
against me.
Kingsford: Certainly your sales depend on that. Anyone else from the public.
Seeing none I will close the public hearing, Council members.
Morrow: My major concerns here are with respect to the size of the island and
culdesac, I think that we can sit here at a design level and say that everything is
going to work out in terms of subtracting and adding feet. From a practical
standpoint I think that the landscaped island it too big to make the culdesac on a
daily basis function for both our emergency services and our praticals and so I
think I'd like to see more net road with than the 23 feet that we are talking about
in terms of her presentation. I'm not totally convinced having done things in
Spring Meadow and River Run where those types of culdesacs have been done.
The net effect of those is after the projects are done they are not very functional.
It is always kind of a hassle getting not only emergency vehicles but just the
neighborhood cars and neighborhood usage done. It looks great on paper but in
the real world it doesn't work too well. So I think my preference would be we
have more distance there maybe even consider not having the tittle landscaped
deal in the center of the culdesac. And that is all that I have with respect to this
project.
Kingsford: Any other comments Council?
Tolsma: I think t agree with Walt's sympathies on that because the garbage trucks
or the trash trucks in town are going to have to circle that culdesac for the trash
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Meridian City Council
February 15, 1994
Page 40
•
and if anybody parks in there, even if there are no parking signs or not if they park
there they can't get through there. The 22 feet is pretty narrow.
Kingsford: Of course you still have that outside radius looks to me like the thing
that heavy equipment is going to be working against anyway not the interior. I
share Walt's comment with regard to the vegetation after what it looks like maybe
after the fact, but I think there are some neat things that could be done. I will
defer to your better judgement, I've not worked with one of those. What is the
Councii's pleasure with regard to the annexation and zoning, is your desire to have
the City Attorney do an Ordinance for Annexation and Zoning?
Corrie: I would so move Mr. Mayor.
Yerrington: Second
Kingsford: Moved by Bob, second by Max to have the City Attorney prepare an
Ordinance for annexation and zoning, all those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All yea
Kingsford: Is there a motion on the preliminary plat? Wayne
Crookston: Are you going to approve the Findings of Fact?
Kingsford: I suppose I better.
Morrow: So moved
Crookston: There was different testimony but not necessarily detract.
Kingsford: Entertain a motion on the Findings.
Morrow: So moved
Yerrington: Second
Kingsford: Moved by Walt, second by Max to approve the Findings of Fact and
Conclusions of Law on the annexation and zoning request for Valeri Heights
subdivi~ion, roll call vote.
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Meridian City Council
February 15, 1994
Page 41
ROLL CALL VOTE: Morrow: Yea, Yercington: Yea, Corrie: Yea, Tolsma: Yea
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
Kingsford: The next item with regard to Valeri Heights is the preliminary plat, is it
the desire of the Council to approve the preliminary plat or is your desire to re-
negotiate the radius of the culdesac?
Morrow: I'll propose the motion that we change the turning radius within the
culdesac, possibly eliminating the center island or down sizing it.
Kingsford: I think the correct approach is to approve the preliminary plat subject
to substantive review of the culdesac.
Morrow: Well stated, so moved
Corrie: Second
Kingsford: Moved by Walt, second by Bob to approve the preliminary ptat subject
to substantive review of the culdesac interior, all those in favor? Opposed?
Mt}TION CARRIED: All Yea
ITEM #12: PROCLAMATION: PRAYER VIGIL WEEK:
Kingsford: Whereas, the American Mothers, Inc., places great emphasis on the
importance of motherhood and strengthening the mora! and spiritual foundations of
the home; and Whereas, stability in families and communities lies in the moral
values of the people; and Whereas, these values basically are learned in the home
through teaching and through examples set by parents and family members; and
Whereas, mothers and fathers, both young and old, are aware of the awesome
responsibility they have to teach moral and spiritual values; and Whereas since
Idaho is experiencing significant population growth with accompanying social
problems, prayers are especially needed to fortify the morat foundation of our
homes and children; Now, therefore, I Grant Kingsford, Mayor of Meridian do
hereby proclaim February 25 through March 6, 1994 to be Prayer Vigil Week.
1TEM #14: BRIAN THREET: REQUEST FOR TEMPORARY SALES TRAILER IN
CONIFER SUBDIVISION LOCATED ON NORTH TALL PINE PLACE, LOT 1, BLOCK
1:
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Meridian City Council
February 15, 1994
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Threet: Good evening Mr. Mayor, Council members, I brought with me a
subdivison layout here of Conifer Subdivision located off of West Pine on North
Tall Pine Place. We've obtained tots in the subdivison and are currently under
construction and are here to request permission to set a sales trailor on the first lot
there, Lot 1, Block 1, used as a sales office/construction office for the temporary
use throughout the construction process there.
KKingsford Its typical w grant only 6 manth one and if it needs to be extended
you need to come back before the Council. Any questions of Brian?
Morrow: Your temporary sales office will be done in a presentable manor so that it
has landscaping and its not just a shop shack.
Threet: Exactly, I've got a picture, that is the size of trailor that we are going to
be getting and kind of the same layout that we are going to do, with a redwood
deck and some shrubbery around it.
Morrow: If its done in that manor I have no objection.
Tolsma: Is it going to be hooked to City sewer and water?
Threet: It will.
Kingsford: It think that is something that you would need to deal with the
engineer and building department with regard to those hook up fees and how you
expect to see those recouped i the sale of that lot.
Threet: They kind of already let us know how that works, that is not a problem.
Yerrington: I make a motion that we give this request for 6 months.
Tolsma: Second
Kingsford: Moved by Max, second by Ron to approve the request for a temporary
sales office trailor in Conifer subdivision, Lot 1 Block 1, all those in favor?
Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All yea
ITEM #15: REQUEST BY TED HUTCHINSON OF TEALY'S LAND SURVEYING TO
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Meridian City Council
February 15, 1994
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MODIFY THE AREA OF IMPACT BOUNDARY NEXT TO THE RIDENBAUGH CANAL
FOR PROPERTY OWNED BY PACIFIC NORTHWEST ELECTRIC, CO.:
Hutchinson: Mr. Mayor, members of the Council, I am Ted Hutchinson with
Tealy's Land Surveying, office address 109 South 4th street in Boise. We
represent Pacific Northwest Electric and Edmunds Construction Company. We're
asking for an amendment to the Meridian Area of Impact Boundary. On January
3rd I mailed the letter to Mr. Forrey concerning this particular item, 1 believe we
were scheduled to discuss this with the City Council at one time after that letter
was sent. However, because of the similar project which encountered the same
problem which was Edgeview Estates which is iying on the north side of lnterstate
84 which is down the east side of Cloverdale road and west side by the
Ridenbaugh Canal. We have a similar problem in our property lies south of
Interstate 84 in fact is adjacent to the Interstate is bounded on the east side by
Cloverdale Road and on the west side by Ridenbaugh Canal. When the Council
reviewed Bedleco and their request for an amendment to the Area of Impact is was
determined by the Council that the City of Meridian would be unable to
economically provide service to the development and therefore granted the request
of Bedelco to be excluded from the Meridian Area of Impact for inclusion of the
Boise Area of Impact. We are asking for the same consideration. !n essence we
are an identical project, we are bounded by the canal which wilt prevent the
reasonable and economic provision of sewer service for a small portion of our site.
Now the Bedelco site had approximately 15 or 20 acres that was involved our site
has approximately 7 acres which lies outside of the Boise Area of Impact and then
the Meridian Area of Impact. The Boise Public Works department won't be able to
provide sewer to us, sewer is in Cloverdale Road and it is the intent to connect the
development to public sewer. However because that portion of the site which lies
west of a quarter mite west of Cloverdale road is outside of the impact area for the
City , the City of Boise will not provide service. What we need is approval from
the City of Meridian so that we can prepare an amendment application to the City
of Boise and the County so we can amend the Area of City Impact for Meridian
and for the City of Boise. So that we can exclude from your Area of City Impact
and include it into the Boise Area of Impact. I believe Mr. Mayor that you
requested that we contact the other property owners who are similarly affected,
there were only 8 of those property owners that lie in Cloverdale Acres Estates
and Rolling Hills Subdivision which was immediately south of it.
Kingsford: I was more concerned Ted, with the north side of the Freeway where
there, I hate for us to keep being around these small, there is a natural barrier
indifference to what you said. We weren't as concerned about sewer service as
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Meridian City Council
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we were about economics that developer having to split that, half being Meridian
half being Bill Bridges. My concern is as you look at your parcel or the R-8 section
between Edgewood Estates there is a portion of that ought to realistically go to
Meridian. And just between the freeway and that portion there is another little
sliver that should go to Boise. I'd like it if we could do all that in one pass.
Hutchinson: Mr. Mayor, when I spoke with the representative with Bedleco to find
out what they did for the process, she indicated that because that stuff lies north
of the freeway but east of the Canal is under the Bedelco project and will be
platted as Edgeview Estates. I understood from her that it was accomp{ished but
the maps don't show that particular amendment. I would imagine that there
would be no problem, again I didn't contact those because it was my
understanding that
Kingsford: (Inaudible) considerably fewer acres but I just bother this bother with
the City of Boise, just take care of it in one fall swoop.
Hutchinson: In fact the people I contacted are south of our property which are
effected, of the 8 that I contacted, 4 responded, 1 was adamantly opposed, 1
didn't really care, 1 was more or less unaffected because the majority of his
property already lies in the Boise Area of Impact and they will be able to provide
service.
Kingsford: Again, I'm not all that concerned about the portion to the south just
that on the north side of the freeway.
Hutchinson: I can contact Bedelco to see if they would be, I believe they are
going to be the property owner, !'ll confirm that portion of it. Now, the little sliver
that is irnmediately north of the freeway, I believe most of that would be taken up
by the right of way by the canal. I believe they have considerable right of way in
that.
Kingsford: Well, still its going to be an easement it just as well that just won't be
transferred to Boise as well so we don't have to mess with it. At least that is my
opinion Councit.
Corrie: I don't know what is going, I'm sorry. I don't know what you are talking
about.
Tolsma: (Inaudible)
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Meridian City Council
February 15, 1994
Page 45
Hutchinson: Yes, #here are some of those who own property south of our site in
Cloverdale Acres Subdivision is which prefer to remaining where they are they
don't anything to do with the City of Boise.
Kingsford: I think logically those that are in that subdivision untess the issue is
pressed so hardly by Boise they are not going to be
Hutchinson: Eventuatty when sewer becomes available and it becomes necessary
for them, I believe they will be very interested.
Kingsford: 1 know 2 or 3 parties in there and their system is working and they are
not at al{ interested.
Hutchinson: That was the general consensus.
Kingsford: But those on the north, so we don't deat with this twice more, I think
the request of the our planner was some time ago that it be accomplished in the
same effort.
Hutchinson: I wifl make contact with them but we are under a bit of a time
constraint and would like to proceed as quickly as possible. We are asking that he
Council grant approval so that we can proceed to the City of Boise and Ada
County.
Crookston: I believe that we would have to have an apptication into the City of
Meridian to delete that, to amend our Comprehensive Plan to change our Area of
Impact.
Hutchinson: Mr. Mayor, Mr. Crookston, I would direct your attention to your
comprehensive Plan map which has beer~ recently adopted. This is the area right
here which has already been excluded.
Kingsford: The County hasn't approved that, we approved that. So, all I think he
is asking is a letter.
Crookston: is that part of Bedetco's, we atready defeted that?
Hutchinson: That particutar portion south of the freeway is our site and that has
already been excluded in your Comprehensive Plan again it has not been adopted
by Ada County yet.
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Meridian City Council
February 15, 1994
Page 46
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Crookston: I did not recall that we deleted more than what Bedleco asked for.
Hutchinson: I believe it was in recognition of the same situation that Bedleco was
in.
Kingsford: So, you were asking just for a letter to the City of Boise
Hutchinson: The City of Boise will not accept our application for amendment
before we have something from.
Kingsford: If the Council is amenable let's direct a letter to the City of Boise of
such and request that they also withdraw that one portion from their Area of
Impact for the City of Meridian which is also in our Comprehensive Plan.
Morrow: 1'm generally in opposition of the philosophy of the quarter of a mile
west of the center line of the road. I don't think that it makes good planning from
this standpoint, I understand where the quarter of a mile came about, but I think
what we are finding out in dealing with the Fire department and other
governmental agencies is that we are spending lots of the taxpayers dollars in
duplication and in terms of problems with addresses and so on and so forth. The
rightful boundary between any city is the center of a major road and so
philosophically I would be in opposition to making that any more difficult in terms
of ins and outs of subdivisions in the center of the road. So when you send the
letter say it wasn't unanimous.
Kingsford: Indifference to Mr. Morrow, that already that quarter line, one thing
was the sewer and water issue, another thing was the fire district dating to well
before my time in this area.
Morrow: The fire district is the center of Cloverdale road now.
Kingsfard: No, it is a quarter mile west, that is why ~inaudible) negotiated that line
with Mr. Ergly a good number of years ago.
Morrow: Still was a mistake.
Kingsford: What is the Council's pleasure, we have already withdrawn it in terms
of this map, Mr. Forrey.
Forrey: One other point of clarification Mayor and Council, after we received the
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Meridian City Council
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letter from the County Commissioners adopting the Comprehensive Plan, but in
that same letter they said no further expansion of the Impact Area at this time,
then in the next paragraph I think it said the City of Meridian should initiate a
request to continue our negotiations and justify this expanded boundary. (End of
Tape1 So after the Council adopted the Comprehensive Plan, 1 contacted the
Commissioners and said what are you looking for we need to get on with this
larger boundary because of all the development around the city. They said they
needed to start those negotiations, so I submitted a letter which summarizes our
Impact boundary and discusses those 2 sections that we have excluded. That
latter might suffice, 1 guess we should review. That might be a letter we could
use because I did summarize the justification of the boundary and those 2 areas
that are out as shown on that map, so that we could get back to the negotiation
table with the commissioners. Because the lack of us adopting and them not
adopting has left a lot of folks in a state of confusion.
Kingsford: Well, I'm not sure that the County Commissioners haven't left a lot of
folks in a state of confusion.
Morrow: If it was the center of Cloverdale Road there would be no confusion.
Kingsford: I don't know I might be confused on that.
Corrie: I guess the letter has already been sent we don't need to send another one
the way it sounds.
Kingsford: Well that was sent to the County, I believe they are asking it to be sent
to the City of Boise, so I think this Council needs to make a yea or nea with regard
to what we have already adopted in our comprehensive plan.
Corrie: I move that we send a letter to the City of Boise and contend with our
adopted Comprehensive Plan and move it on to the City of Boise.
Yerrington: I'll second for Walt
Kingsford: Moved by Bob, second by Max to send that letter to the City of Boise,
all those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: 3 YEAS, 1 NEA
ITEM #16: DEPARTMENT REPORTS:
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Meridian City Council
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Page 48
Kingsford: Chief
Gordon: Nothing
Kingsford: Mr..lohnson
Johnson: I have one thing, with respect to this workshop that we have scheduled
for February 22nd, in the past year or so it has become obvious that some of
Ordinances, things need to be re-worked and looked at. One of the things we
should initially focus in on is the landscape ordinance, so we set this workshop up
for that purpose. It is surprising to me in fooking at this agenda that we now have
5 items on here. The only one I agreed to add to that was pressurized irrigation
and I don't think we can accomplish what we set out to do on revising that
landscape ordinance. We were looking at a 3 or 4 hour intense meeting. I have a
couple options, I would suggest that we drop that landscape ordinance from the
agenda and visit that at a different time.
Kingsford: Well, I think certainly Mr. Chairman we can prioritize those, I'd be very
willing to re-set that priority. What our gluteus maximuses can't handle anymore
we will adjourn and set another meeting.
Johnson: We have looked at a lot of things and we have looked at a lot together,
a lot of materia{ on that one specific item and I just don't think we can (inaudible~.
Kingsford: Point well taken, anything else. Shari
Stiles: Thank Mayor and Council members, I'm happy to be part of the City of
Meridian now. I've got a lot of things on my agenda. Wayne puts more things on
them everyday. One thing I want to be focusing on besides helping with the
amending the Zoning and Development Ordinance, in reviewing some of the
applications this week 1 see a great need for coming up with a Zoning and
Development checklist so the developers have no question of what is required and
it woutd lessen the ambiguity of some of our present policies. Afso, I would like
to revise the application so we get a consistent product each time from the
developer and we're not having to make 30- copies of something, that kind of
thing. I received a call from Mr. Joe Simunich this afternoon and he had some
concerns about the City's policy on irrigation and I told him he could have a couple
of minutes to explain his concern, thank you.
Simunich: I'm Joe Simunich and I live a 955 West Ustick road and I'm more or
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Meridian City Councii
February 15, 1994
Page 49
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less here to represent the owners of approximately 190 acres that receive water
below or through the Lansbury Subdivision. For 3 weeks now I have been trying
to get a compiete set of plans for the irrigation sysfiem and work this out with the
developer and the engineer. Finally today I got a plan that shows an 18 inch pipe
with some irrigations boxes it is very vague no trash racks, there is a diversion
structure in this pipe line that is to divert water to a neighbor. There is no drawing
as to how it is going to work, we get told by the owner of this subdivision that he
is going to have professionals do this and its going to work. I've seen so many of
these specialty irrigation systems that don't work that have been put in by the
professionals. Here we've got nothing other than just saying it will work. There is
no easement shown here for access to maintain this line and I'm just wondering
what is the City policy for this type of a system.
Kingsford: Our ordinance speaks to if it is plugged that the peopte that it goes
through their property have to unplug it, it is their duty to do that whether is it is a
live ditch or a pipe ditch going through their property.
Simunich: Well, to the west of ine the City has approved a subdivision, my wife
cleans the trash out each day because somebody put a little trash rack a big as a 5
gallon bucket down in the bottom of the whole. This stuff has got to be designed
and approved by the users. The Council doesn't irrigate, your City Engineer
doesn't irrigate, its the people below there, the 1990 acres that get water from
this and these ditches need to addressed and these boxes and whatever is being
built, other than let the devetoper put in what he thinks is good for him.
Kingsford: I think the appropriate thing Joe, is for you to work with the
engineering staff. Your absolutely right the Council doesn't irrigate, I don't have a
clue how it would work, but you need to work in conjunction with the engineering
staff to see that it does work for you.
Simunieh: Which engineering staff?
Kingsford: Ours, the City's, because we have the approvals.
Simunich: Well I understand that Gary Smith approved this, he said its all
approved, I didn't get the plans until today and there is nothing o~ it that shows
an adequate irrigation system.
Kingsford: I guess you need to go ta the engineer and work that out, see what
you can do.
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Meridian City Council
February 15, 7 994
Page 50
Sim~nich: To Gary Smith
•
Kingsford: ts that ditch awned by the users or is that st+ll Nampa Meridian's ditch?
Simunich: No this is a users ditch, this is a user la#eral~ #hey haven't asked us a#
all what we need to function. And #here is another man here who has a more
serious problem than we have on this same ditch.
Stiles: I would just like to show you Mr. Simunich that I will work with you and
Gary Smi#h and Dave Collins and we'I! take care of your concerns.
Simunieh: It is a very poor set of plans and I'm surprised that they have gotten
this far and 1'd like to get a hold of them and see what is going on.
Morrow: Has this subdivision been approved by us or is it beginning, the
subdivision that he is referring to?
Kingsford: Its approved, I'm not sure that the final phases are all approved on
that.
Forrey: The finat plat has not been signed but is about ready to be signed pending
a development agreement.
Morrow: This was obv'sously done before my time, rruhat parce{ of ground are we
#alking about?
Forrey: This is property Councilman that is north of the south slough along
Meridian road south of Ustick just north o# (inaudible).
Morrow: And who is the subdivider here?
Forrey: Chris Wiltiams
Morrow: Nobody within the City or the engineering staff has done any research
with respect to the proper sizing of the irrigation pipe or was #hat s#uff done and it
was certi#ied Mr. Forrey?
Forrey: I don't mean to upstage Shari, but she may not be aware of this, I did ask
Dave Collins how he arrived at this whatever size it is, the size was determined by
the number of minor inches of water that the Nampa Meridian Irrigation told Dave
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Meridian City Council
February 15, 1994
Page 51
Collins that they deliver to the head gate. Based on that amount of water de
designed the pipe.
Simunich: Excuse me Wayne, I think the pipe is alright but we've no
specifications as to what they are going to put, whether its going to be a stove
pipe, concrete pipe, plastic pipe. There are no covers on the irrigation boxes, the
irrigation boxes in the back of these lots its a good place to dump lawn clipping in
and anything else you want to get rid of. It will suck it right down there, it will
even take kids down through this pipe with 250 inches. Its just not on the plans.
Forrey: So, the size may be adequate its just the overall design.
Simunich: Mr. Cole, they have given him a smaller pipe he is supposed to get aN
the water also.
Cole: Thsy made mine down into a 9 2 inch pipe buried it under the street without
by approval, under the street that is running east and west, the new street that
they are putting in. All I know is one end of it if you look in the manhole
(inaudible) I don't know what the other end is and I can't get the full head of
water that has been delivered to this property for the last 50 years or more, I can't
get it through the 12 inch pipe. So its either going to back up into a neighbor, we
don't know what is going to happen.
Kingsford: You get the same head of water on your rotation as the 15 or 18 inch
pipe supplies.
Cole: Yes
Kingsford: So, it needs to be the same size pipe.
Cole: Well, it seems that it should be yes, because where is the water going to
go?
Forrey: I think Shari had the answer, its a good follow up project to work with
Gary or Bruce and we will get back to you on that and make sure Dave Collins has
something in the design that is appropriate.
Tolsma: Well that could be part of the development agreement also then.
Forrey: I'm sure its in the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law. Our
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Meridian City Council
February 15, 1994
Page 52
ordinance is very specific it has to be a quality tiling project, we can't have open
boxes and not have appropriate trash racks that type of thing. There are Nampa
Meridian Standards and well as City standards.
Morrow: I think what I would like to see is we've done some projects at teast
form the transportation standpoint that Mr. Collins has been a part of and quite
frankty the district has had some probfems in terms of the actual design work and
the construction and I'm referring specifically to the case on Cherry Lane and so I
think I'd like to see the development agreement that all these little issues that we
are talking about are covered there so we leave nothing to their interpretation.
Kingsford: You will contact Mr. Collins. Mr. For~ey
Forrey: Thank you Mayor, a couple of things. Item 1 on development compliance
I'm really pteased to report that I had a very good conversation with Mr. John
Wardle, Idaho Athletic Club. He has enclosed the trash container, he is right now
getting bids for the 6 foot screening fence behind the athletic club, he has installed
blinds in the winds on that upper story that overlooks those homes. When I talked
to him t reminded him that my letter was invite the property owners on the north
side up to satisfy themselves that the blinds were adequate. The ladies that were
here have indicated that he invited them up so I think that is on the right track.
One issue though that we stitl have to resolve and that is landscaping, I spoke to
his architect today and we are going to still work that out. We've got some time.
On Maws addition, the fence is up now so things are moving along there. As far
as update on major projects, the Five Mile Trunk Sewer is under design by
Roylance, i think some of you might know the St. Lukes Hospital project is driving
that so that is under way. Meridian Energy project has been submitted fior
Conditional Use and witl be the March 8 Planning & Zoning Commission agenda.
Mr, Chairman, I think there are 3 public hearings scheduled for that evening. 1
guess we made command decision without consulting you. The CMAQ funding,
Meridian is eligible for the 1994-5 grant program. We submitted a letter of intent
for 2 projects, first priority was the interchange landscaping, second priority was a
purchase of an etectric or alternative fuel vehicle as a demonstration project for a
pub4ic utility vehicle to show other cities and counties an alternative fuef or electric
vehicle could blend well into a meter reading operation or a public works vehicle,
one that Councilman Tolsma fiad experience with in California. That is an eligible
project so we submitted that, APA has indicated those are both eligible projects
we are going to compete but as the weeks go by we will be applying for those
funds. The third item, discussion of urban irrigation, Dennis Baker who I think was
one of the first developers years ago to put in pressurized irrigation in east Boise
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Meridian City Council
February 15, 1994
Page 53
a
along Boise Avenue and along the canal there. He had kind of an ideal situation
there, his project is right below the canal, he had a lot of head and its pretty easy
to tap into a canal and put in pressurized irrigation, but he is saying along with
other developers i# is not working, this Nampa Meridian Irrigation program, its just
not there yet. And he actually feels that the city of Meridian is in the leadership
position in the whole valley because the ordinance you used to have and then the
coordination that you have with Nampa Meridian Irrigation at the Council fevel, I
guess the other cities haven't reached that tevel of cooperation yet. Dennis
wanted to be here tonight, he was unable he called just about 5:15 tonight. So,
what he asked Mayor is that maybe he could meet with Councilman Yerrington
and yourself, he's got some ideas, they want to get serious about this pressurized
irrigation. I didn't know that was on the agenda for the special workshop, I hadn't
seen that agenda Mr. Chairman, so maybe we ought to get Dennis Baker and Max
Boesiger and others involved if that is a big issue. IN any case he would like to
meet with you Mayor and discuss it.
Kingsford: That particular item Mr. Yerrington has reviewed that, he is serving
that committee and asked that those people be invited over to address it briefly.
They've got considerably new information since the Council last visited them.
Forrey: We now have the new colored Comprehensive Plan maps, we have a
large, a medium size and a small. You have the smalt one, help yourself in the
Council room there, there are lots of maps so use them. Here is a draft letter to
the Highway district, just a suggested format, I'll hand it to everyone. Read it in
the next couple of days and take a red pen to it, if you feel its appropriate or
inappropr+ate please mark. There has been some comment that the City should go
on record to the Highway district commissioners asking for their staff to re-
evaluate the fee imbalance between Boise versus Meridian. Here is just a letter
that introduces the subject and asks the commissioners to instruct their staff to re-
evaluate and work with Meridian City Council.
Morrow: If I might shed some light on that Wayne, in the committee that I chair
that 1 represent the City of Meridian on which is the Citizen's Advisory Committee
for the Highway district that committee some months ago initiated the re-study of
that entire thing and that process is pretty well underway. And where it has gone
through, it has gone through the individual cities in the other western cities have
joined the City of Meridian in requesting that those commercial, retail and industrial
uses all have the same impact fees county wide and so this issue has gone from a
Meridian issue to a western Ada County issue and all the cities have joined us in
supporting that equalization. Certainly a letter from the City Council will be helpful
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Meridian City Council
February 15, 1994
Page 54
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to the Commissioners in terms of advancing our position, but Larry Sale is kind of
heading up changing that. We are asking for some help from APA with respect to
trip Isngth studies, but that is supporting help. I think the concept there is we are
going to get that thing changed and that it will be changed reasonably soon.
Now it appears that there may be some legal stumbling blocks the way the thing
was set up by the State Legislature, but I think that is also going to be addressed.
So I would encourage the fellow Council members and Mr. Mayor to d~aft a letter
of support for that to show our unanimity.
Forrey; That is probabty a better way of doing it, this letter didn't really take that
approach. So it needs to be totally re-written to endorse and support that. We
know that Larry Sale was re-evaluating some of those fees. I understood they
were waiting for APA trip length data before they would re-evaluate.
Morrow: Everything is being re-evaluated with the exception of residential, we're
waiting for the APA stuff.
Kingsford: I think it would probably be appropriate Walt if you concur then let's
have a motion to that effect that we draft a letter stating the unanimity of the
Council on that issue so that it is the desire of the entire Council.
Morrow: So moved
Yerrington: Second
Kingsford: Moved by Watt, second by Max to approve of that letter be supportive
of the entire Council and Mayor, all those in favor? Opposed?
M(3TION CARRIED: All yea
Kingsford: We could maybe include a couple of those comments and they get the
draft to the Council and have a day or 2 to respond and then get a final product
possibly within a week. I have one request of the Council, Mr. Crookston has
finished the contract with Ada County with regard to the licensing department. 1'd
like to have a motion to authorize the Mayor and the City Clerk to sign that
document and send it back to them.
Yerrington: So moved
Morrow: Second
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Meridian City Council
February 15, 1994
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Kingsford: Moved by Max, second by Walt to have the Mayor and the City Clerk
sign the agreement with the County on the licensing department, all those in
favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All yea
Kingsford: Mr. Crookston
Crookston: Nothing
Kingsford: Bruce
Freckleton: Nothing
Kingsford: Mr. Morrow
Morrow: My only observation is having been to the third meeting, we are getting
a little long on meetings, maybe its time we considered as a Councif of going to a
3 meetings per month instead of 2 meetings per month. If this type of work load
is going to continue and that is an observation at this poin#, I'll throw it out on the
table for people to think about, that is it.
Kingsford: Max
Yerrington: Nothing
ICingsford: Bob
Corrie: Yes, Mr. Mayor, we have a new print out fire department of the response
calls per district, times, alarms, types and numbers if anyone would like to see that
it will be in the Council room, you get a pretty good indication where the fire
department is headed and 1 might add its the right way. We are coming down on
response times and also the QRU type calls are going up the fires are going down.
1 let the paper moguf over here know about it the other day, there was an accident
in front of the fire department and a lady and gentleman was hurt not too bad, but
we called in the accident and actually dispatch we were there before it was
actually dispatched which gives us a good time on our statistics, but what I
wanted to say was one of the littie 4 year old grandson wrote a real nice thank
you to the fireman and said thanks for taking care of my grandma and grandpa and
gave him a little box of mm's. I'm through now Mr. Mayor.
• !
Meridian City Council
February 15, 1994
Page 56
Kingsford: Mr. President
Tolsma: Yes, I have gotten some calls, some concerns from softball players and
the leagues of the City of Meridian. The Boise City proposa! right now, it said
1995, out of the Meridian players only 2% of the players from outside Boise City
limits will be allowed to play on the Boise City Softball field, so their proposal was
they have money, time, labor to donate in the construction of a ball field if the City
of Meridian can acquire the ground to put these ball fields on and I told them I
proposed Tulley park out here with the ball fields to be installed in that and they
are willing to work with us any shape or form including money, time, building
materials, expertise whatever in helping to construct and maintain these ball fields.
Also to look for land that could be acquired by park grants to construct other
fields of play for the citizens of the City of Meridian. Right now Vern Bisterteldt is
heading up a committee over there to see about trading County land as a land
swap for land that is in close proximity to the City limits or inside the City of
Impacts that we could work with developers on changing around. So right now
I'm pursuing that with Mr. Bisterfeldt to see how to go about acquiring some
desert land or trade for land that is closer to the City of Meridian. It is getting to
be a hassle. There are probabty 8,000 people in the Boise valley right now that
play softball and the fields that they have right now they run 5 days a week, 3
leagues a day. And they are becoming more all the time with the people moving in
here. That is not including soccer fields and tee ball and everything else. So that
is something to look at.
Yerrington: How many fields do they figure we are behind right now?
Tolsma: They figure we could use 24 more ball fields right now and they are reaNy
crowded.
Kingsford: 24, you are talking about the Treasure Valley?
Tolsma: Ada County area, Boise city and Meridian.
Morrow: Might I suggest that you work with Western Ada Recreation District and
begin effecting that common goal and consummation of the two and begin to
solve the problem. That is a legitimate problem and if we are going to be a viable
City we need to look after getting something done along these lines.
Tolsma: Well, the park man said I think he was going to have Mr. Forrey look into
that. That is what we are looking fior now, I know the development of Tulley Park
• •
Meridian City Council
February 15, 1994
Page 57
is going to have to proceed post haste this spring when time is available and also
part of the land back here by the speedway will probably start converting into
more ball fields or soccer fields. The American Legion when they set in to build a
hardball field out here they went after boy, they got the lighting up and fences up
and the grandstands.
Kingsford: That was certainly brought about by the failure of the bond issue in
Boise which I guess in many respects didn't surprise me as far as society where
our values lie. I have some real problems with Boise taking that approach that
they are not going to let people outside the city of Boise into the recreation
leagues. I think they need to evaluate and we certainly need to try to provide
more ball fields as well. I think Boise needs to re-evaluate that position and
recognize that people that work for corporations that are housed inside Boise those
corporations pay huge amounts of taxes to the City of Boise and certainly their
employees ought to be given consideration as if they lived in the city of Boise.
Unfortunately w didn't get the Towne Square Mall, we didn't get the Outlet Mall,
we don't have the Boise Cascade or Morrison Knudson buildings. I think they
have an obligation as being the recipient of all those taxes of providing recreation
for all those people. I don't know maybe a letter ta that effect to the Mayor's
office in Boise would be appropriate.
Morrow: I think at least a joint meeting with him those are very sound issues and
from what I understand that some of the negative feeiing about the bad vote
totally missed the point. Most of those folks are voting their pocket books and
they haven't got a lot left in their pocket books and it didn't have a lot to do with
not Maving desire for parks it had a lot to do without having the money to pay for
the things. They are barely making it from payday to payday now. I think some
of that interpretation by the City Council or by the Mayors office with respect none
of our folks playing on their fields is a little negative in terms of backlash.
Kingsford: Of course they had done that last year as well, they took that policy
last year prior to that vote. 1 agree with you, there are limited resources out there
and its not going to get any easier to come up with those dollars.
Corrie: I think its a situation we need to handle now, and I got some calls in
reference to Mr. Bisterfeldt trading the land and they said why don't we get some
of that ad you got the same phone calls I'm sure. I agree that maybe we should
get a letter or something to the Mayor of Boise showing our concern about this
whole thing.
~ •
Meridian City Council
February 15, 1994
Page 58
Kingsford: I think I have a meeting with him next week on transportation and that
might be a good opportunity. Mr. Forrey
Forrey: One thing to throw in the equation that you are talking about is housing is
recognized as on the the critical components of economic development so for
Boise or any other community to have quality economic development there has to
be housing and you look at the statistics we're providing the housing for Boise's
economic development, so there is a definite partnership there already recognized
or not we are in a partnership and that just needs to be carried through in
recreation as well as housing.
Kingsford: Maybe if you wouldn't mind, you and Shari could work on a draft of a
letter for me and I will try to give you some information to put in it.
Stiles: I know that the Jerome map has received a lot (inaudible).
Kingsford: Mr. Berg
Berg: Nothing
Kingsford: Entertain a motion.
Morrow: So moved
Corrie: Second
Kingsford: Moved and seconded to adjourn, all those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All yea
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 10:22 P.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
GRA T P. KINGSFO , MA
ATTE T:
•, ~ ,, .. ~i /~~ _ ~
~ .----~.X7~ 1~=~- '~ i L,
WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., TY CLERK
~ ~
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCII,
AGENDA
TUESDAY, FLBRUARY 15, 1994 - 7:30 P.M.
CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS
MINUTES OF PREVIOUS MEETING HELD FEBRUARY 1, 1994:
~L~n~at~ l. JIM BONNER: COMPLAINT CONC~RNIlVG INSURANCE DECISION OF COVERAGE:
TABLED AT FEBRUARY l, 1994 MEETING:
~~~. 2. FINAL PLAT: HUNTS BLUFF #2 SUBDIVISON BY FARWEST DEVELOPERS AND
ROYLANCE AND ASSOCIATES:
' I o,~~. / 3. FINAL PLAT: ENGLEWOOD CREEK SUBDIVISON BY GLENN L. JOHNSON AND
~_~~.~ ROYLANCE AND ASSOCIATES:
~1~¢.~ ~ 4. FINAL PLAT: SPORTSMAN POINTE #5 SUBDIVISION BY THE WESTPARK CO.
~~ AND J.J. HOWARD ENGINEERS:
~~ CL 5. PUBLIC HEARING: VARIANCE REQUEST FOR LANDFALL SUBDIVISON BY
~ GOLDSMITH CHARTER:
~ 6. PUBLIC HEARING: VARIANCE REQUEST FOR KING STREET STATION
SUBDIVISON BY D. J. INVESTMENTS AND BRIGGS ENGINEERING:
~'~L L
7. PUBLIC HEARING: VARIANCE REQUEST FOR SCOTTSDALE ESTATES
.~ SUBDIVISION BY ROBERT AND VERNA CHRISTENSEN AND
~'~~cl- BRIGGS ENGINEERING:
~~~ 8. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERNIIT FOR A
DAY CARE BY LESLIE PALMER:
~~GL 9~ P~LIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR ANNEXATION AND ZONING WITH A
CONDIITONAL USE PERMIT FOR KING STREET STATION
SUBDIVISION BY D.J. INVESTMENTS AND BRIGGS EINGINEERING:
~ 10. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR ANNEXATION AND ZOIVING WITH A
~~GL P~LIlVIINARY PLAT FOR SCOTSDALE ESTATES BY ROBERT AND
VERNA CHRISTENSEN AND BRIGGS ENGINEERING:
~ 11. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUE5T FOR ANNEXATION AND ZONII~TG WITH A
~. PRELIMINARY PLAT FOR VALERI HEIGHTS SUBDIVISION BY
~
VICKIE WELKER AND HUBBLE EINGINEERING:
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~
PUBLIC MEETING SIGN-UP SHEET
NAME:
PHONE NUMBER:
-°1~6
~
~
HUB OF TEASURE YALLEY
A GOOD PLACE TO LIVE
CITY OF MERIDIAN
33 EAST IDAHO
MERIDIAN, IDAHO 83642
GRANT P. KINGSFORD
MAYOR
PROCLAMATION
WHEREAS, the American Mothers, Inc., places great emphasis on the importance of
motherhood and strengthening the moral and spiritual foundations of the home; and
WHEREAS, stability in families and communiries lies in the moral values of the
people; and
WHEREAS, these values basically are learned in the home through teaching and
through the examples set by parents and family members; and
WHEREAS, mothers and fathers, both young and old, are aware of the awesome
responsability they have to teach moral and spiritual values; and
WHEREAS, since Idaho is experiencing significant population growth with
accompanying social problems, prayers are especially needed to fortify the moral foundation of
our homes and children;
NOW, THEREFORE, I, GRANT P. KINGSFORD, Mayor of Meridian, Idaho, do
hereby proclaim February 25 through March 6, 1994, to be
PRAYER VIGIL WEEK
in Meridian, and I urge churches of a11 faiths to enlist their membership to join in prayer
during this week asking divine strength for not only mothers and fathers, but for all who work
with or have influence on our children and youth so they may be successful in instilling moral
precepts into these young people's liv ~ h will help thenn to become happy, productive
and successful adults. ~,~ ~i1~,,
~1T P. KI:
MAYOR
•
HUB OF TREASURE VALLEY
A GOOD PLACE TO LIVE
CITY OF MERIDIAN
33 EAST IDAHO
MERIDIAN, IDAHO 83642
GRANT P. KINGSFORD
MAYOR
PR4CLAMATION
WHEREAS, the Future Farmers of America with vocational agricuiture,
education is a strong force for America`s agriculture; and
WHEREAS, members of the FFA are playing an outstanding role in assuring
the future progress and prosperity of our nation; and
WHEREAS, the FFA motto -- "Learning to do, doing to learn; earning to live,
living to serve" -- gives direction of purpose to these future leaders for tomorrow's
agriculture; and
WHEREAS, the FFA performs the valuable service of developing leadership,
encouraging cooperation, promoting good citizenship, teaching modern
information, and inspiring patriotism among its members,
NOW, THEREFORE, I, GRANT P. KINGSFORD, Mayor of Meridian, Idaho, do
hereby designate the week of February 18 - 22, 1994, as
FFA WEEK
,
~~ ~~~
~4 qDUp pQr GRANT P. K N S R
~, ~~.~° ~.~ '` eo ~ MAYOR
C~
~ ~ ~~~~~ ~ ~
~ ,~~ ;. .~ ~
~J~ ~~T ;~i• ,;10
~ ~~~
~i~g ~ ~'t , ~'
~
HUB OF TEASURE VALLEY
A GOOD PLACE TO LIVE
CITY OF MERIDIAN
33 EAST IDAHO
MERIDIAN, IDAHO 83642
GRANT P. KINGSFORD
MAYOR
PROCLAMATION
WHEREAS, the American Mothers, Inc., places great emphasis on the importance of
motherhood and strengthening the moral and spiritual foundarions of the home; and
WHEREAS, stability in families and communiries lies in the moral values of the
people; and
WHEREAS, these values basically are learned in the home through teaching and
through the examples set by parents and family members; and
WHEREAS, mothers and fathers, both young and old, are aware of the awesome
responsability they have to teach moral and spiritual values; and
WHEREAS, since Idaho is experiencing significant population growth with
accompanying social problems, prayers are especially needed to fortify the moral foundation of
our homes and children;
NOW, THEREFORE, I, GRANT P. KINGSFORD, Mayor of Meridian, Idaho, do
hereby proclaim February 25 through March 6, 1994, to be
PRAYER VIGIL WEEK
in Meridian, and I urge churches of all faiths to enlist their membership to join in prayer
during this week asking divine strength for not only mothers and fathers, but for all who work
with or have influence on our children and youth so they may be successful in instilling moral
precepts into these young people's lives which will help them to become happy, productive
and successful adults.
~
GRANT P. S
MAYOR
FROM : A~1 HERITAGE ~ PNONE I~. : 208 A55 0387 ~ Feb. 09 1994 09:43AM P2
~~-~~ ~ 94 1S o 33 1 b: AMER i CAN HER i TAGE TEL I~O: Si0-830-6"705 ~611 P01 -~---~-~---r
~~~~~~~~
F~ 8 - :~ 1~~~~
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4a9s LMke Avtnve, C~1dwd1, Ydah~ q34DZ 'fol~phones (30d) ~Sl~-9~~,i prx~ (Z4A? ~t~-9l11'J Lll I~~~~~~-
Fe~aruary $, ~.9~4
~Oili S~~z ~
Ci~y ot M~ridian
a~ar t~x. Ss~n:
I am writing ~i,v lat~ar Eo y~u ~r aur ti4~.Aphb'~M1~ GC~riVd~'~~~Sb~'!
an aa/os/~a.
Re~por-dir,g the c~~y a€ Msridian ap rov~i requizem~ri~s ~or the
u~a c~t tamporary F;al,~~ Trnil~re~ o~ ~ubd~V~~~.bn~~ tae wauld liks ~h~
oppar~unity to pramont ~o thg ~ity Counail our qat~o~pti o~ ~e~tSnq
e ti~mpo~c~ry 5~iss C~fine on our Con~fer subdivisicyn iac~tod at ~.
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CASfLLE
, l-. _ ____~__. C,.Fr...~ro Cnl.irions
OFFICIALS
~
WIILIAM G. BERG, JR., City Clerk
JANICE ~. GASS, City Treasurer
GARY D. SMITH, P.E. City Engineer
BRUCE D. STUART, Water Works Supt.
JOHN T. SHAWCROFT, Waste Water Supt.
KENNY W. BOWERS, Fire Chfef
W.L. "BILI° GORDON, Police Chiet
WAYNE G. GROOKSTON, JR., Attorney
~ HUB OF TREASURE VALLEY
,~~~~iUeQ.' C/~C ~''1f~
~ 2-~5 =~~
A Good Place to Live
CITY OF MERIDIAN
33 EAST IDAHO
MERIDIAN, IDAHO 83642
Phone (208) 888~433 • FAX (?A8) 887-4813
Public Works/Building Department (?A8) 887-2211
GRANT P. KINGSFORD
Mayor
Letter to All ACHD Commissioners
February 15, 1994
Ada County Highway District
3I8 East 37th Street
Boise, ID 83714
Dear Commissioners,
COUNCIL MEMBERS
RONALD R. TOLSMA
MAX YERRINGTON
ROBERT D. CORRIE
WALT W. MORROW
WAYNE S. FORREY, AICP
Planner 8 Zoning Administrator
JIM JOHNSON
Chafrman - Planninq & Zoning
d~a ~-~' lQ~~ ~ ~_
. ~
{~QU, ~
The City of Meridian is desperately trying to diversify our economic development pattern
and support business expansion within our community. Our Commercial and Industrial land uses
are substantially less than they should be given the size of our community and our need to balance
business uses with residential development. Meridian has adequate land and available utilities for
economic development and we are actively promoting new business in our community.
Our adopted Comprehensive Plan reaf~'irms City policy to take necessary and appropriate
action to stimulate Commercial and Industrial development and balance our land use pattern and
corresponding tax revenue. Everyday we meet with business interests and try to meet their needs
with zoning, utilities, and efficient development permits. During most of these discussions, we
have found that the Highway District's Impact Fee actually discourages potential business from
Iocating in Meridian. This is due to your Impact Fee Formula which lowers the fee for Boise and
raises it for businesses locating in Meridian. This formula needs to be re-analyzed because it is
forcing Meridian into a"bedroom community" which is exactly what we are trying to prevent.
ACHD and the City can each benefit from a revised Impact Fee formula that is based on a
level playing field. If the Impact Fee formula is revised, the Highway District would benefit
because we could attract new industry to Meridian and reduce commuter trips into Boise.
Meridian would benefit because we could then diversify our tax base and enhance our community
identity.
The City understands the theory behind this fee formula, but we also know that practical
sense and balance need to be included in the fee analysis. We ask that you direct your staffto re-
analyze your current formulas and balance the fees to allow equal business development for
Meridian. Also, please schedule a work session with the Commission and your staffthat several
of our Council members can attend and help describe our needs and findings.
~
~
' We sincerely need your help. One of the best ways that ACHD can reduce commuter
traffic and help balance growth within the metropolitan area is to put your Impact Fees on a level
playing field. We look forward to working with you!
Sincerely,
City of Meridian
Mayor Grant Kingsford
Councilman Ron Tolsma
Councilman Bob Corrie
Councilman Wa1t Morrow
Councilman Max Yerrington