HomeMy WebLinkAboutJune 5, 2008 P&Z MinutesMeridian Planning & Zoning
June 5, 2008
Page 26 of 43
Moe: Is there anyone else out in the audience that would like to speak in regards to this
-- okay. No one else. So, I'm sure you don't want to come back up and say the same
thing you just said; right? So, we are okay there. Having said that, now, Commissioner
Newton-Huckabay.
Newton-Huckabay: Mr. Chair, I recommend we close the Public Hearing on AZ 08-006.
Rohm: Second.
Moe: It's been moved and seconded to close the Public Hearing on AZ 08-006. A{I
those in favor say aye. Opposed? That motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Newton-Huckabay: After considering all staff, applicant, and public testimony, I move to
recommend approval to the City Council of file number AZ 08-006 as presented in the
staff report for the hearing date of June 5th, 2008, with no modifications. End of motion.
Marshall: Second.
Moe: It's been moved and seconded to approve AZ 08-006 for Alter Properties. All
those in favor'? Opposed? That motion carries. Thank you very much.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 8: Public Hearing: RZ 08-002 Request for Rezone of 0.55 of an acre from
the R-4 to L-O zoning district for Meridian Library Parking Lot
Expansion by the Meridian Library District - 1727 N. Leisure Lane:
Moe: I would now like to open the Public Hearing on RZ 08-002 for Meridian Library
Parking Lot Expansion and hear the staff report.
Watters: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission. The application
before you is a request for a rezone of .58 of an acre of land from R-4, medium low
density residential, to L-O, limited office. The property is located at 1727 North Leisure
Lane, north of Cherry Lane, on the west side of Leisure Lane, approximately a quarter
mile east of North Linder Road. This is an aerial view of the property. Residential
property zoned R-4 exists to the north of the site. To the east is an office, zoned L-O
and R-4. To the south is a library parking lot and vacant building, zoned L-O. And to
the west is an existing library parking lot, zoned L-O. The applicant proposes to
construct a new parking lot for the library on this site. The conceptual site plan
submitted with the application shows how the subject property and the existing parking
lot to the west of the site will redevelop as one new parking lot, with associated
landscaping. One two-way access driveway to the proposed parking lot is shown from
Cherry Lane via Leisure Lane. Two one-way drive -- driveways enter from and exit into
Meridian Planning & Zoning
June 5, 2008
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the library property where the library is located west of this site from the proposed
parking lot. That's the two drives right here. A possible driveway connection to the
existing library parking lot to the south is also depicted on the plan. No new access
points to Cherry Lane are proposed with this application. The requested L-O zoning
district complies with the Comprehensive Plan future land use map designation of office
for this property. The proposed use as a parking lot for the library is considered a
public/quasi-public use and as such is a permitted use in the L-O district. The adjacent
properties owned by the Meridian Library District are all zoned L-O. This property is
unique in that it encompasses all of Leisure Lane, a private street at the east boundary
south of Cherry Land. You can see here on the aerial. Leisure Lane is an existing
private street that is used for access to the subject property, the property to the east,
and residences north of the site. The residential property owners to the north own the
land to the center of Leisure Lane. Leisure Lane is located within an easement north of
the site. Leisure Lane is currently improved on this site with approximately 22 feet of
asphalt, no curb, no gutter, and no sidewalk. A raised curb exists along the east
boundary adjacent to the office property that separates a five foot wide area that serves
as a sidewalk, but is the same level as the street. Leisure Lane is considered a
substandard street and all of the residential properties to the north are, therefore,
considered nonconforming properties, because they are single family homes without
public street frontage. Staff believes that Leisure Lane should be improved as a public
street as a provision of rezoning this property. If Leisure Lane is improved as a public
street, then, all of the properties that have access to Leisure Lane can some day
redevelop in conformance with city code. If the improvement and dedication of Leisure
Lane on this property does not occur, staff believes that there will be a negative impact
on the adjacent neighbors. Staff is recommending as a development agreement
provision that the applicant improve and dedicate right of way for Leisure Lane as the
public street consistent with ACHD standards from Cherry Lane to the north boundary of
the site. This improvement and dedication shall occur prior to approval of the certificate
of zoning compliance for the parking lot expansion. Additionally, staff is including a
development agreement provision for the parking lot lighting to be shielded, so that no
direct light shines into adjacent residential properties. Staff is cecommending approval
of the subject rezone request to L-O with the development agreement as stated in the
staff report. And staff will stand for any questions the Commission may have at this
time.
Moe: Any questions of staff? Would the applicant like to come forward.
Daniels: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission -- Sonya, I was wondering if you
could go to the aeriaL
Moe: Name and address, please.
Daniels: Sorry. Ed Daniels, 2785 Bogus Basin Road in Boise.
Moe: Thank you.
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June 5, 2008
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Daniels: Currently the library is located here. The library district has purchased this
property. They are utilizing the existing parking lot and they are utilizing the existing
office building for staff and some administration. The property that we are requesting
for rezone is back over in here. Right now the library district has got a significant
demand for patrons and children and everybody coming to the library, such that they
have -- they have expanded into this for the parking lot and -- even with that parking lot
expansion, there is still a high demand for parking. So, currently what happens when
the library parking lot gets full is that we have parents parking in subdivisions and
needing their children to walk along Cherry Lane. I'm sure everybody's familiar with
Cherry Lane. As you can see from the aerial, there is no landscape buffer befinreen
Cherry Lane and the sidewalk and it becomes a major hazard for these -- for these
children coming into the library. So, with the -- with the parking lot addition our hope is
that we -- we mitigate any of the safety concerns that we currently have of where the
parents have to park for their children. We are, however -- this is a very unique piece of
property in that it does encompass a portion of Leisure Lane and I'm not seeing this
right now on the aerial, but ACHD owns eight feet between their property and this
property here and we haven't really got a definitive answer why that property exists or
what ACHD really anticipates doing with it. Currently by making this a public road -- or,
for one thing, it really straps the library financially in making this project feasible. You
know, in order to try to do the right thing for the students and the patrons and the
children as well. Also by making this a private lane -- I'm not sure what the intention is
or if there is any -- going to be any contiguous private road that would maybe stop here
and, then, the public would end there. So, I guess the question to maybe the staff is
what was the intent to have half of a public -- half of a public road and, then, half of a
private road when someday these may or may not be developed at any date and time.
So, that's kind of the project and I guess our request would be to eliminate any
requirements we have for a public road and any of the improvements that come with
that, as well as the conditions of approval for water and sewer in here, I'm not sure what
the intent is on there as well. I'd stand for questions.
Moe: Any questions? Thank you very much. Okay. On the sign-up sheet there is a
Bob Wallett. It says by proxy. Okay. For the record. Okay. Next on the list is Margaret
Wallett.
Wallett: Thank you. My name is Margaret Wallet. I live at 1838 Leisure Lane, which is
the second property on the right.
Moe: There should be a pointer there on --
Wallett: I don't know how to use it. Oh, there we go. Right there is my property.
Moe: Okay.
Wallett: It goes up all the way here and there -- that right there. I am all for the parking
lot itself. I realize that there is a problem. The problem that I have -- and the reason I
said no to this and my husband also, who is at home sick, is the entrance onto Leisure
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June 5, 2008
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Lane. I have pictures of Leisure Lane. The potholes that have been created from -- just
from the dentist office on the corner and, then, when it was -- the counseling office and,
then, they tore the fence down and made an exit onto Leisure Lane. I do have --
somewhere here I have pictures of the potholes that were created from too much traffic.
Here we go. Right here.
Moe: You'll need to give that to the clerk to put into the record.
Wallett: Thank you. As you can see, there -- it's not a good road and it's because of
the extra traffic. One reason that we chose to buy the house was because it was on a
private iane, which means not so much traffic. We do get traffic from the dentist office,
people looking for a place to turn around and that's usually my driveway or the Layton's
driveway or Mr. Weeks' driveway, which Laytons are right here and Mr. Weeks is right
here. And I'm right there. I have health issues. I have asthma and I also have COPD.
One of the triggers for the COPD, as well as the asthma, is the fumes from traffic, which
is one reason why we chose that property, because the fumes don't get there. But if
there is going to be that much traffic finro doors down it's going to be a health problem
for me and I'm going to end up selling, moving somewhere else, just because the traffic
coming in and out. And I can guarantee you people will not turn to go to Cherry Lane,
they will turn to come back down thinking they can get out, even though it says dead
end. And that's a given. I mean that's just the way it is. So, I am opposed to the exit --
entrance-exit on Leisure Lane, but t'm all for the parking lot, as long as they have their
entrance and things off of Cherry Lane. Thank you for your time.
Moe: Any questions? Thank you very much.
Wallett: Thank you.
Moe: Shirley Ratcliff. From the audience she has nothing more to say. Allen. Can you
pronounce the fast name for me.
Garratt: Allen Garratt.
Moe: Garratt.
Garratt: 1917 Leisure Lane. My property is where the R-4 is, these two pieces of
property right here. I, again, choose to live in this neighborhood, only having moved
there about three years ago for a very specific reason, I wanted live in an area where I
had that country lane feel, but I'm also in the middle of Meridian. I don't really want
Leisure Lane to become a city street. If I did I would have lived in any one of a number
of fine subdivisions that Meridian has to offer. I want to live in the country area. I'm not
opposed to the parking lot for library per se, but I do not want to have the exit onto --
onto Cherry Lane for the very same -- the very same reasons. It's just -- it's too much
traffic. There is already enough traffic racing up and down that street as it is. I have got
a small two and a half year old child and there is cars going up and down that street, I
can't let my child out in my front yard in the daytime, because of folks thinking they can
Meridian Planning & Zoning
June 5, 2008
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get -- take a shortcut -- shortcut to nowhere. Again, I'm not opposed to the project, just
don't want it to exit onto Cherry Lane -- onto Leisure Lane. On Cherry Lane would be
fine through the existing building right -- through that existing building right there, that
would be fine with me.
Moe: Okay. Any questions? Okay. Charles Fellows. Charles Fellows? Okay. Thank
you very much. Terry -- is it Layton?
Layton: Commissioners, my name is Terry Layton. I live at 1811 Leisure Lane, which,
as was stated earlier, is the property just to the north of that library's current parking lot
and the proposed one. I, myself, am in -- and my wife are in favor of the parking lot.
We had a meeting with the library awhile ago and they showed us a preliminary -- we,
for the most part, were in favor of the design. Some of our requests that they
addressed and they agreed to comply with I have a concern, because in the staff report
it addressed that there was no irrigation problems and our yard is fed by an irrigation
ditch that would be going through the new parking area and they said they would take
care of it, but staff said that they didn't address it, so I'd like to be on record that that
would be taken care of. Like I said, I am in favor of the parking lot. Their design I think
is nice. They have agreed to have a six foot buffer against my property line, so the
headlights are not shining in my bedroom window, which they all angle right there, but
they have -- with that six foot buffer. Another question I addressed to the landscape
architect at that is all those trees look great, but when they did that last time on the
property right there -- well, actually just to the north that the library owns, Idaho Power --
well, it's just the current property right here -- they put all these nice beautiful trees that
they agreed to last time and about five years later ldaho Power came and cut them all
down with neither of us having anything to say. So, somehow we have to address that
problem, that they be low growing trees or something. And as far as the traffic, of
course, I would like it if it didn't go onto Leisure Lane, but if that's going to be their only
access, I would much rather have that be a controlled environment and controlled by
them, than if -- can you, please, put that picture up that was the overhead. Currently --
on, no. The overhead one, please. Yeah. That one. Currently this is their property
and you can see, as addressed in staff s notes, we have a five foot curb right here.
Well, these guys all parked on this private property and we have very limited access
here. So, if it is their property, hopefully, we can -- even though they have taken down
the signs that the library put up there, no parking, we can somehow control that as well
with this. So, if we can exit here and that's where the Commission agrees, that would
be great, but if not, we -- I would like to see that somehow controlled as prior property.
And is there any questions for me?
Moe: Any questions?
Newton-Huckabay: I have none.
Layton: Okay. Thank you for your time.
Moe: Commissioner Newton-Huckabay, did you say you had one?
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June 5, 2008
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Newton-Huckabay: I said I have none.
Moe: Oh, I'm sorry. Thank you. Tino and Janet Sanchez.
Sanchez: My name is Janet Sanchez. I reside at 1929 Leisure Lane, which is -- the
other picture. At the very end of the Leisure Lane. And for -- speaking for both my
husband and I are right here at the very end of the lane. We have no objections to the
library's plan as it stands and as Mr. Layton mentioned, the library did work with us
previously, showed us their plan and answered all of our questions and concerns. The
only concern we have with the current plan is the recommendation by staff that Leisure
Lane become a public road for that section and we also supported keeping Leisure
Lane as a private lane and private property. We currently have an easement clear to
Leisure Lane, which was a bit confusing. I thought in the staff report it indicated that it
was a private lane to a certain point and, then, there was an easement north of their
property. The easement does, indeed, go all the way to Cherry Lane, and we support
keeping it that way and not making it a pubfic road. Concerns with that are as everyone
else has mentioned that the traffic that's on it and controlling that traffic and just
changing the signs to say it's a public road, instead of a private road is going to
encourage more people to come down and use our road and give us less control over
what happens with that road.
Moe: Any questions?
Newton-Huckabay: I have none.
Moe: Thank you very much. That's all that signed up and pretty much everybody that's
in here, so -- so, no one else. Questions? Comments?
Rohm: I think it's appropriate to close the Public Hearing. We have heard all the
testimony we need.
Newton-Huckabay: Rebuttal.
Rohm: Oh. Yeah. I guess rebuttal.
Newton-Huckabay: Mr. Chair, before the applicant has a chance for rebuttal, everybody
seems to be in agreement that they don't want Leisure Lane to develop from a private
street to a public street. Why is it not feasible just to take the access off of Leisure
Lane, if the library agrees to -- to eliminate that access, take the access to the south to
the piece of property that they bought that already has access to Cherry Lane and -- I
mean it could almost sound like the library is asking -- they want their cake and they
want to eat it, too. We don't want to develop Leisure Lane, but we still want to drive
onto it and we still want our through access to our parking lot. So, is it feasible to not
have access onto Leisure Lane, put that south access onto the parking lot and access
that parking lot through the west and the south, rather than the east?
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Moe: That would be a question that the applicant --
Newton-Huckabay: That would be my question is what a{{ the -- if the library doesn't
want to pay for a public street, neighbors don't want a public street, where is the middle
ground? That was --
Moe: Very good comment. Would the applicant like to come back up.
Daniels: Sonya, if you could go to that aerial again. Thank you. The library district is
not opposed to doing minor improvements to Leisure Lane. Of course, fixing the
potholes and everything else that may come along with that. And so that was the intent
of this project, because it is part of the library district's property, is that they would come
back and they would, you know, repair it to a little bit better condition than what it is
now. In regards to the -- in regards to the site circulation, currently the library has got --
they have finro access points here, here and here. The sign for the library is back over
in here, so the primary entrance for the library is here. As people come in, they look for
a parking spot, they are kind of doing this circle, they will circle the building and, then,
we have an exit that comes out here. The intent on the design for the circulation is that
we would maintain the same circulation as they have now and maybe we can flip
befinreen the existing parking lot and maybe that new parcel as well. So, the intent is to
have this as the main entrance to the library. People would come up and they would
realize any parking that may be available here, if there is not a parking spot available,
they can merely loop around, come back, either loop the building, or loop the building
back over in here. So, that was the intent of the design. So, as far as having mass
congestion of cars off Leisure Lane, that was not the intent and I think that with proper
signage I think that we could limit the amount of access on Leisure Lane from the new
parking lot. However, the library district feels pretty strong, because it is their property,
they would be maintaining the road that they are allowed some sort of access onto
Leisure Lane. Obviously, the neighborhood supports this as being a private road. The
library district, as well as the neighbor, they support this as being a private road as well
and that's the way that we would like to see it done here as well. The irrigation -- I
believe there is a{ateral that runs north-south in here and we woufd, obviously, make
that a continuous -- I don't know if it's a lateral, but it's a ditch and so we would definitely
address any irrigation that flows through the property and we would pipe it accordingly.
I'm not sure what the -- what the deal was with the Idaho Power cutting down these
trees, they are, actually, really nice trees. They were nice trees. We would provide
trees in there that would be slow, low growing, and so they would not have to be
chopped down by Idaho Power for whatever reason, I assume because they were too
tall. And so we would try to maintain that across that -- across that irrigation. So, with
that I could certainly stand for any questions that the Commission may have.
Moe: Any questions?
Newton-Huckabay: Mr. Daniels? Mr. Chair?
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June 5, 2008
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Moe: Yes.
Newton-Huckabay: Mr. Daniels, on your plat drawing or -- you showed a potential
access to the south. There it looks like it's somewhere around 37 and -- parking lot
stalls 37 and 38, is that --
Daniels: Uh-huh.
Newton-Huckabay: And if that access to the property were you have your offices on the
south, you also have access to Cherry Lane through that property; right?
Daniels: Through the south property.
Newton-Huckabay: Yeah.
Daniels: I don't know -- I believe there is a driveway -- there is no driveway to Cherry
Lane. There is? Yes, there is.
Newton-Huckabay: Okay. Why do you have that just depicted as potential versus an
actual?
Daniels: For here?
Newton-Huckabay: Yeah.
Daniels: Well, currently the library district occupies this house in here and they have
offices. They have some parking around here. We want to have the opportunity and
the flexibility to connect any parking that we may have in here to certain days. So, it's a
matter of just trying to get your parking lot a little more continuous in here and so maybe
they are not using this Cherry Lane as much, because, as you know, with Leisure Lane,
this driveway -- this neighbor's driveway, the entrance into the library and the other
entrance back over in here, this becomes pretty busy and so --
Newton-Huckabay: That's a lot of curb cuts.
Daniels: I'm sorry?
Newton-Huckabay: That's a lot of curb cuts.
Daniels: That's a lot of curb cuts. So, the Idea is that this could potentially come in and
we could utilize this parking, just to make it a little more contiguous. For that same
reason we would want to take the access off of Cherry Lane, but I think it would be a
little more convenient for this parking lot to some day to be continuous, because the
library district does own both pieces of the property.
Newton-Huckabay: Uh-huh.
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June 5, 2008
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Daniels: Did that answer your question?
Newton-Huckabay: Yeah.
Daniels: In a long winded way?
Newton-Huckabay: It wasn't the answer I was looking for, but I'm not totally certain
what answer I was looking for, Mr. Daniels.
Daniels: Just tell me what you were looking for and I'll tell you.
Moe: Are there any other questions? Thank you very much. Mr. Rohm, you look like
you're searching for something.
Rohm: Oh, I just was trying to find -- I don't know. The public street, I think that it would
be better being a public street, but I can certainly see where everyone from the
audience wants it to remain private and so I don't know where to go with it myself.
Newton-Huckabay: Mr. Chair?
Moe: Yes.
Newton-Huckabay: I'm kind of Commissioner Rohm, I mean I-- I have a hard time with
putting those kinds of funds to the library district to pay for a public street --
Rohm: That nobody wants.
Moe: Exactly.
Newton-Huckabay: But I don't know that -- I mean we have 45 parking stalls in there
and we are going to figure half of those will exit or enter onto Leisure Lane once it's
known, maybe? So, you're routing -- I think I'm in favor of leaving it a private street with
improvements.
Moe: Because we are still in open hearing, I guess I would like the applicant -- I have
got one question for the applicant. Basically, what you're looking for to have access to
Leisure Lane is just because you want access, as opposed to closing that in and
making sure that all your traffic is going back towards the parking lot -- or the library
itself. Basically, having to go back to the west. You're parking there and, then, you're
going back out west, as opposed to having any access off of Leisure Lane.
Daniels: Yeah. Mr. Chair, the -- hopefully to answer your question, is that we do have
one exit out of here, but in the event we have, you know, a large venue happening,
which -- which may happen, we want to have the opportunity to have that overflow
parking come out at two points onto Cherry Lane, rather than just the one. Because, as
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June 5, 2008
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you can see, with all the parking, it can become very congested and I think very unsafe
for everybody if we don't have more than one exit point onto Cherry Lane, so --
Moe: Thank you very much.
Newton-Huckabay: Mr. Chair. Is it appropriate that that would be an exit only? A right-
out only or do you have to do right-in, right-out -- or right-in, right-out? Somebody stop
me if I'm out of control here.
Rohm: Well, about the only thing I would say to that is the existing residence as it
currently exists don't have any limitations to ingress-egress. I don't think there is a
right-in, right-out currently and I'm pretty sure none of them would be in support of not
being able to access from the west, I guess, so --
Newton-Huckabay: No. Just onto Leisure Lane.
Rohm: Yeah. That's what I'm saying is --
Newton-Huckabay: Right-in, right-out.
Rohm: Yeah. Right now it's not right-in, right-out, it's full access, I would bet, and to
limit the existing residence to a right-in, right-out might be as much of an annoyance as
making it a public street.
Newton-Huckabay: Well, I wasn't talking about the existing residence, I was talking
about the library property.
Rohm: Well -- but they are all affected by the same thought process.
Newton-Huckabay: If you could only go right-in or right-out into the library parking lot --
Rohm: Oh, I thought you meant out onto Cherry Lane off of Leisure.
Newton-Huckabay: No. No. No.
Marshall: It would have to be a left in, right out.
Newton-Huckabay: If you did a right-in, anybody who lived on Leisure Lane heading
south could go into the library. If you did a right out --
Marshall: Excuse me. May I?
Moe: Yes.
Marshall: Mr. Chair.
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June 5, 2008
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Newton-Huckabay: By all means.
Marshall: A right-in would have to come from the north.
Newton-Huckabay: Right.
Rohm: That's what she's saying. And so the only access into the parking lot off of
Leisure into it would be from the north and it wouldn't congest the traffic --
Newton-Huckabay: Beyond the library parking lot.
Rohm: -- beyond the library parking 1ot, but you --
Newton-Huckabay: In theory.
Rohm: -- but you could exit out of that parking lot and take a right out to Cherry Lane.
That's -- that's not a bad idea. You see what she's saying?
Marshall: Yeah. I --
Newton-Huckabay: Oh-oh, I have created a-- just a moment, please.
Marshall: May I ask for some clarification here?
Newton-Huckabay: Certainly. I have a pointer now.
Marshall: Okay. Please --
Newton-Huckabay: Oh, you want me to clarify. I'm saying that if you were coming from
the north it would be a right-in. If you were coming from the south, you couldn't. But,
then, you might -- this is what I'm guessing, it's going to create a bunch of people up
here wanting to turn around. Got you. Okay. Okay. Fair enough. Okay. Scrap that.
Moe: But, at the same time, that brings up another point that I'm struggling with on
whether or not we keep it private or you go public and that is you have made the
statement that you are looking for another egress point out of the parking lots out of the
library, so, therefore, that private lane is going to get warn out a lot faster, basically,
than it would otherwise. You go ahead and you develop it back into a public -- you're
going to have a better road system. You're only taking it to the north side of your
property -- of the library property, so I find it strange that the neighbors don't want a
public street to the north side of the library, simply because it will be a heck of a lot
better road.
Marshall: Mr. Chair, just asking because of the cross-access easement and a lot of
homeowners associations having private roads, everybody having access to that road is
required for the maintenance of that road or, in this case, is it different, is the library only
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June 5, 2008
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maintaining that section of road? I mean who is responsible for the maintenance of that
private road --
Newton-Huckabay: Everybody who lives on here.
Marshall: Right. And, therefore, it's seems that the public section of the road up to this
point would make sense, where the public wouid maintain that road and, then, privately
it would be maintained after this point.
Moe: Yes.
Newton-Huckabay: Mr. Chair -- and that's where my comment was, Commissioner
Marshall, that if they don't want to make this a public road and the library doesn't want
to pay for a public road, which I'm not sure I would necessarily support, then, I think that
the library should get up this access to it for public use, because, in essence, that's what
it would be. You would be allowing public use on a private street without the benefit of
-- you're putting a burden -- you're putting the public's burden on everybody who lives
north of this property, including the library who owns it. So, I don't think they should get
to do that. I don't think the Library should get to put that burden on, but I would be in
support of -- you can keep this a private street as far as I'm concerned, but you can't
use it for public use. So, I would not be in support of this access.
Moe: You'd close -- you'd close off the access.
Newton-Huckabay: Yes.
Moe: That's what I was --
Newton-Huckabay: And, then, you exit here and you exit here and that's what I was
saying, you exit to the west and you exit to the south, and -- unless if you want this
access for public use, then, yes, I think you should have to pay for the benefit of public
use and not burden the neighbors to the north. But it sounds like the library wants their
cake and they want to eat it, too. And they want public use and they want access and
that's where I think we have our conundrum that we have to solve, either this is a public
street up to here, so you can have public use, or you don't get this access and you can
put your access right here. Is that where we are all going with this?
Marshall: Absolutely. Thank you.
Newton-Huckabay: You're welcome.
Moe: Sir, the testimony has been taken. Thank you very much. Do you have another
comment?
Daniels: I do, actually. The -- I was wondering if you could go to that aerial that shows
where the property boundaries are, Sonya. Thank you. As you can see, this -- like t
Meridian Planning & Zoning
June 5, 2008
Page 38 of 43
said before, it's a very unique piece of property. I'm not sure why it is the way it is,
because none of the property lines where the residents are up here or anything like this,
to where the library district currently owns that part of Leisure Lane and so we kind of
felt that there is a little bit of maybe entitlement to utilize their own property for access
onto Cherry Lane. And with that I guess my question would be being this is a new
parking lot, if it did not loop out onto Leisure Lane, what would be the difference of not
accessing it right here. To me this is a little more safety, whereas if we are forced to
have another access onto Cherry Lane, we have got this existing curb cut in here that
the library district, I would assume, would -- would be entitled to use as well. So, what
we are really trying to do is make a little bit safer environment to where you're not
having traffic at this point, this point, and that point.
Newton-Huckabay: But you haven't given up that access.
Daniels: Here?
Newton-Huckabay: Yeah.
Daniels: Not in this plan.
Newton-Huckabay: Okay. Close the Public Hearing?
Marshall: What I-- I would ask you is that I understand the thought of entitlement to the
piece of property, but seeing how it's a cross-access easement for everybody that lives
beyond there, who, then, is responsible for the maintenance of that?
Daniels: You know, honestly, I don't know if I could answer that, because of the way the
agreement's written for Leisure Lane and a certain percentage of the neighborhood
association participates in that. I don't think I can answer that tonight in a good way. I
could make something up, but I wouldn't be right. But I don't know.
Marshall: My concern, then, if you can understand it, is that we are, then, putting an
undue burden on all of those people that live behind there for public access to that
parking lot to maintain this strip of road. If, in fact, they are helping to pay to maintain
that strip of road.
Daniels: Yeah. I see can the point.
Moe: Any other questions, Commissioners? Thank you very much, sir.
Rohm: Before -- I have one question that just came to mind. I'm sorry.
Newton-Huckabay: Welcome back to the hearing.
Moe: Commissioner Rohm.
Meridian Planning & Zoning
June 5, 2008
Page 39 of 43
Rohm: Well, I have been thinking. What my question is is -- is if -- if you had an
either/or -- either develop the road to -- and dedicate it to Ada County and have your
access from the parking lot onto Leisure Lane, as is in the staff report, as one
alternative, or no access to Leisure Lane off of -- out of the parking lot, which would be
your preference?
Daniels: To be honest with you, I think I would probably have to take it to the library
directors to answer that. I don't know if I can make that decision for them.
Rohm: Okay. Well, I think that this Commission is kind of leaning -- if you have one,
you got the other. If the road's to be utilized, it's going to be a public thoroughfare, as
our recommendation on to City Council and that's why I asked you if you had your
chance which way would you prefer and you're saying you'd have to go back to your
board?
Daniels: That's correct. Uh-huh.
Rohm: Thank you.
Marshall: Mr. Chair, if I may.
Moe: Yes. Commissioner Marshall.
Marshall: Did you not earlier -- if -- I'm trying to follow up here -- make the comment that
you felt that making the improvements and turning that into a public right of way was
somewhat cost prohibitive based on the resources of the library district?
Daniels: That's correct.
Marshall: Thank you.
Moe: Okay.
Hood: Mr. Chair, if I may just real quick.
Moe: Yes.
Hood: If, in fact, you want to go with what Commissioner Rohm just offered up, you
certainly could put an either/or in the condition or if you want to move this forward
tonight, not knowing what the library district may want to do, you could have a condition
that says either you construct this as a public street or you -- I mean you can craft a
condition that way, if you so choose. I just wanted to throw that out there as an option if
that's where you guys want to go.
Rohm: Good. Thank you.
Meridian Planning & Zoning
June 5, 2008
Page 40 of 43
Moe: Well, having said that, I guess a little bit more discussion. That's what I'd like to
see happen. Because, quite frankly, I understand that the cost involved to make that a
public street, there is a cost to bear, and, therefore, I mean if they can do without the
access, then, I think that they should have the opportunity to do that. They would have
to get that resolved prior to City Council, so that when they -- before, then, they can tell
them which way they'd go.
Newton-Huckabay: Well, I think it would be a good opportunity for them to talk with the
neighbors, too. And -- I mean there is -- with a private street you have the situation
where you have a lot more stake holders per se than you would normally have on this
type of thing and I want to make sure that the owners of Leisure Lane and the library, as
one of those owners, all understand how they want to move forward, so I don't recall
ever drafting an either/or recommendation to City Council before. I'm not opposed to it,
though. Provided the attorney doesn't step in and say, no, don't do that. And he's ever
silent.
Nary: Mr. Chair, Members of the Commission, I don't think there is anything prohibiting
you from doing that. I think -- I guess part of ine says that part of your charge as this
Commission is to give your recommendation to the Council and an either/or really isn't
that. But you certainly have the ability to do it. There are some unanswered questions
from your discussion. You certainly can -- as you have done on other occasions, allow
the applicant and the parties to take your information you have had tonight and come
back in two weeks to see if some of those issues can, to, then, help you be able to
make a decision that you all feel comfortable with and, then, if you still feel at that point
that there really is an either/or -- and I would say there are occasions where you have
said a specific recommendation and maybe just not quite as pronounced as this where
you would have really one or a second alternative that are wholly different. But you
certainly have sometimes given some options to the Council, but not one quite maybe
as dramatic as one from column A and one from column B, so --
Rohm: Have we closed?
Moe: No.
Rohm: Okay.
Newton-Huckabay: Mr. Chair'? I might say we could continue this as well.
Moe: Well, that's what I'd like to find out from the applicant if he's -- would the applicant
come forward again. Mr. Daniels, based upon what -- the discussion we are having
here, would you like to have the opportunity to get with your folks and present the
request that Mr. Rohm has brought forward and, basically, continue this hearing until
the 19th of June?
Rohm: It would have to be July 3rd, because --
Meridian Planning & Zoning
June 5, 2008
Page 41 of 43
Moe: Oh, that's right. I'm sorry. July the 3rd. Excuse me.
Daniels: Is that the only option?
Moe: It's that option or whoever makes a motion here is going to tell us what -- what we
might be able to do. It's either going to be one or the other.
Newton-Huckabay: Mr. Chair, I'm going to make a motion, Mr. Daniel, if no one else
does, if I beat them to the microphone, and my recommendation is going to be to
eliminate access to Leisure Lane. If my motion will carry I don't know.
Daniels: Yeah. I think any opportunity that I could have to meet with the client and
maybe give them -- give them the options and discuss that as well. One more thing that
I'd like to maybe bring up real quick, if it's appropriate, is currently there is -- there is a
dentist office in here and he has got finro access points onto a private street. I believe
he brings in a lot of the -- a lot of public as well. So, it's one issue that f have really
brought to the table as far as -- as far as the public accessing Leisure Lane. There is no
access onto Cherry Lane, also, to Leisure Lane for him. So, I'm not sure if anybody's
got an answer for that.
Newton-Huckabay: Mr. Chair?
Moe: Commissioner Newton-Huckabay.
Newton-Huckabay: That's a fair statement and I wasn't sitting on the Commission when
that office was approved and I would ask that same question, how they got -- got that --
those two easements. But we can't undo what's already done there, but we can,
hopefully, eliminate making the same mistake twice or correcting them.
Nary: Mr. Chairman?
Moe: Yes, Mr. Nary.
Nary: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, I mean I don't know the specifics of
that. I did have a discussion with the counsel that represents that dentist office about --
about some of the issues around this particular parcel, but they certainly have an
easement there, but that's really relative to the library. They are asking this an
annexation. Those are conditions -- those are considerations that the city could make
at this time as to where the accesses can be; what type of access that can be done.
So, whether or not he has an existing easement and the right to use Leisure Lane to
access his business really doesn't matter for this Commission's decision or the Council's
on whether or not to allow access for this addition that the library wants to do. So, you
can bring it up, but it does not really matter.
Rohm: Thank you. So, are you going to make that motion to continue?
Meridian Planning & Zoning
June 5, 2008
Page 42 of 43
Newton-Huckabay: Sure.
Rohm: Okay. All right. Thank you.
Daniels: Thank you.
Newton-Huckabay: After considering all staff, application, and public testimony, I move
to continue file number RZ 08-002 to the hearing date of July 3rd, 2008, for the following
~reasons: It gives an opportunity for the applicant to discuss the potential options of not
having access to Leisure Lane or converting Leisure Lane into a public street and also
continuing some discussions with the other owners of what is Leisure Lane as it's
designed to be.
Rohm: Second.
Moe: There is a motion to continue AZ -- excuse me -- RZ 08-002 for the Meridian
Library Parking Lot Expansion to the regularly scheduled Planning and Zoning meeting
of July the 3rd, 2008, to discuss the access to the parking lot off of Leisure Lane for the
public street at Leisure Lane to the north side of the property of the library. All those in
favor'? Opposed same sign? That motion carries. That will be continued until July 3rd.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Hood: Mr. Chair, just a point of clarification. We had one of -- a similar motion recently
and I just want to make sure that everyone in the audience and the record's clear, that
the maker of the motion was intending that not only the applicant gets to speak, but any
of the property owners down Leisure Lane can come and testify again at that hearing on
any new information that they may have regarding the subject application. Correct?
Newton-Huckabay: Yes.
Hood: Okay. Thank you.
Item 9: Public Hearing: AZ 08-004 Request for Annexation and Zoning of
318.74 acres from RUT to R-4 (69.72 acres), R-8 (192.20 acres) and R-15
(56.82 acres) for Oakcreek by Norpac, LLC - east of N. McDermott Road,
west of N. Black Cat Road, south of Chinden Boulevard & north of Ustick
Road including the southeast and northeast corners of W. McMillan Road
and N. McDermott; and near the southwest corner of W. McMillan Road
and N. Black Cat Road:
Item 10: Public Hearing: PP 08-003 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 139
lots including: 118 residential lots and 21 common lots on 30.72 acres in
the proposed R-8 zoning district for Oakcreek by Norpac, LLC - east of N.
McDermott Road, west of N. Black Cat Road, south of Chinden Boulevard
& north of Ustick Road including the southeast and northeast corners of