HomeMy WebLinkAboutCherry Lane Golf Course Minutes~ . .~ . . ~
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCI'L MEETING JUNE 15 1999
The regular meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 7:30 p.m. on
June 15, 1999 by Mayor Corrie.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Ron Anderson, Keith Bird, Glenn Bentley, Charlie Rountree.
OTHERS PRESENT: Mayor Bob Corrie, Will Berg, Bill Gigray, Bill Gordon, Gary Smith,
Kenny Bowers, Tom Kuntz, Shari Stiles.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor I move that we move public hearing item number 17 to the top of
the regular agenda.
Bird: I'il second that.
Corrie: Motion is made by Mr. Rountree second by Mr. Bird to rearrange the agenda to
have item number 17 which is a public hearing to be the first item. Any further
discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRI:ED: ALL AYES.
17. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A
GOLF COURSE C'LUBHOUSE, PARKING LOT AND TEMPORARY
CLUBHOUSE BY CHERRY LANE RECREATION INC-4200 TALAMORE
BLVD:
Corrie: I'll open the -
Bentley: Mr. Mayor, before we get into this, I need to make a disclosure. My sixteen
year old son works part time as a summer job at Cherry Lane Golf Course. I don't feel
that fihis will have any problems with me rendering decisions on fhis, but I leave it up to
the Council.
Rountree: The way that boy eats, you probably need him working.
Bird: I have no problem with it.
Corrie: Mr. Rountree?
Rountree: Not a problem.
Anderson: No concerns.
Corrie: Okay, you're in for the full duration tonight. Since fihis is a public hearing, we'll
first hear from the staff. Staff, is there any recommendations from the Planning and
Zoning to the City Council that staff has any problems with?
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, you have their recommendation dated, well the cover
letter is dated May 26, 1999. One of our recommendations was deleted by action of the
Planning and Zoning Commission and that was the need to have sidewalks constructed
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Meridian City Council Meeting
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adjacent to the current roadways and future roadways and they deleted that due to the
applicant's statement that that woufd be part of other subdivisions' requirements to do
the roads and the sidewalks. That maybe the case on the one road. That plat has not
been finalized yet. It's still in the process of some revision and it will be some time
before that roadway is completed. So the staff still would recommend that our original
comment fhat those sidewalks be constructed remain. I believe you have in your
packets, have you all received a set of these plans? They're a little more detailed than
what was seen by Planning and Zoning Commission. I did receive a letter today from
Johnson Land Surveying that you may also have a copy of that in your packets
indicating who their consultants would be and there was a little confusion about some of
the notes that were made on the plans we received. They referred to Stucco and then
when we received these plans, it was referring to a rigid foam that nobody was really
familiar with and I see that Mr. Johnson in his letter dated today does indicate it wiff be
drivot so if the Council has any concerns about any of the architectural details or I guess
this would be the forum to bring those up, so since it will be a city facility and owned by
the city.
Corrie: Any other staff comments? This is a public hearing. What I would like to do -
I'm sure, Wally are you going to be the representative for the - no? Okay, we'll have
the developer or the applicant for the conditional use permit to speak first. One
question fhat I have. We have received a petition to the Meridian City Council for
approval of the conditional use permit at Cherry Lane Recreation Assoaiation. Does
everyone have a copy of this thing? Would you like to have that put in this record?
Yost: Mr. Mayor I would.
Corrie: Okay. This is stating that the petitioners recommended this be based upon fihe
assumption that all phases of the conditional use permit, parking lot, recreation location
of the temporary clubhouse and completion of the permanent clubhouse will be
completed in the time frame described at the Planning and Zoning and they do
recommend that we accept that, so we'll make that part of the record then. So City
Clerk if you will do so.
Bird: Mr. Mayor, let's make sure that he identifies that these plans dated 5/18/99 with
no revisions are the plans we are talking about; is that not right?
Yost: I believe that's correct.
Bird: Okay.
Corrie: I'll have you identify yourself and I have one question for you.
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Meridian City Council Meeting
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Yost: Mr. Mayor, Councilmen, my name is James A. Yost, and I'm here tonight as a
spokesperson for Cherry Lane Recreation, Inc. I reside at 2638 N. Sea Cove, Meridian,
Idaho.
Corrie: Do you have any specific questions about the recommendations that was given
to us by the Planning and Zoning Commission? Have you seen those?
Yost: Mr. Mayor, I have.
Corrie: Do you have any particular questions on any of fhose?
Yost: Mr. Mayor and Councilmen, we have been questioned repeatedly for the last
couple of weeks on information. We're willing to supply whatever information was
requested by Planning and Zoning Commission or individuals and we've been trying to
do that. I have a different job that I work at most of the time has kept me busy, so I'm
not sure exactly what the status of those conditions are. The homeowners association
and the principals that I'm speaking for tonight approve of the Planning and Zoning
conditions. We will comply with whatever conditions on that parking lot that the city
requests and I'll go through that in my opening statements.
Corrie: Okay thank you.
Yost: As stated, Mr. Mayor and Councilmen, I'm here tonight to represent Cherry Lane
Recreation, Inc. The principals would seek your approval of the Planning and Zoning
Commission's recommendations and to approve the conditional use permit which
basically follows three basic categories. The first condition would be the completion of
the parking lot that exists there west of the current driving range off from Talamore. The
second condition or request would be the relocation of the temporary clubhouse from its
current location to a location west of the number two hole tee box area which is
adjacent to the proposed site of the new facility and thirdly, the ability by the principals
to apply for the necessary permits and conditions required to begin construction of the
new clubhouse facility and as stated earlier the applicants will agree to various
conditions that were imposed by Planning and Zoning Commission and expect to
comply wifih those conditions. With that objective, please allow me to further explain
that the intent, the plans, the information has never changed on behalf of the plaintiffs.
The recommendation suggestions and conditions requested by Planning and Zoning
and other members and individuals have been and will agree to be agreed to by the
plaintiffs. They're not trying to hold anything back. They're trying to present all the
information they have. It has been confiusing at times for the plaintiffs. They may be a
bit unaccustomed to the regulatory process and the bureaucracy which it does serve a
purpose and is duly recognized. So there was a bit of confusion fhere. In an attempt to
clarify that and to provide the additional information that has been requested by various
individuals is the Cherry Lane Recreation, Inc. has employed the following folks for
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structurai engineering, they employed Staply Engineering. For mechanical, they've
employed Musgrove Engineering. For electrical, 1"aylor Engineering and for
landscaping, The Land Group. Civil Engineering Services are provided by Johnson
Engineering, but allow me to continue. There's been some issues and some
discussions about the shrubbery in the parking lot and the comments that it contained a
large spruce tree or some evergreen and there's no problem with removing that tree. I
think it's been removed in the plans at this time. Any and all changes that the city
wants on the landscaping and the vegetation of that parking lot will be complied with.
The landscape architect will work with you and the city folks, Planning and Zoning or the
City Engineer. We'll provide the proper vegetation and the other conditions for that
parking lot without exception. There are three issues that have come up dealing with
the new clubhouse that may clarify some of fihe information that's going around. First of
all the principals failed to fully understand that the complete plans architectural plans,
mechanical engineering components would be required at fhe Planning and Zoning
Commission. They thought that would perhaps come in the building permit side of the
thing after fhe conditional use permit was provided. So the request for information have
become more detailed so we have gone ahead and provided fihe proper engineering
and for structural design, mehcanical design, those types of things now. But one of the
issues that came up was the issue about the stucco and on the original plans, we
decided they put just stucco. However when questions were asked, they provided a
more definite definition of a stucco like substance that is now used on Spurwing and
Banbury clubhouses and fihat is particularly called exterior insulation and finish systems.
It's a stucco type finish. If there's a problem with that, it can easily be resolved, but I
think you'll fiind that for this area it's a particularly good construction material. Other
construcfion materials have been questioned or more information has been requested
by the principals is that the - dealt wifih the flooring materials for fire protection, two
sheets of 5/8 sheet rock was requested. The city wants or desires one inch of concrete.
There's no problem with the principals on doing that. If you have a preference over the
type of building materials that go into your building, the principals are very
accommodating as to how you want it done or how you want it constructed. We'll take
those things into consideration. But we need to know what you want if that is the issue,
and even thought they will construct the facility, you are deeply entitled to some
preferences that you may want to select and they will not be a big issue with the
principals. The final component questioned was the ventilation of the underground golf
cart storage area. We didn't - I think originally they didn't think that was going to be a
problem, but in lieu of the questions and concerns about that, we hired Musgrove
Engineering who have provided similar service engineering at Spurwing, Hillcrest and
Banbury where they provide the same type of ventilation services. We'll install that
same system. If fhat isn't appropriate you tell us what - if you have a preference on the
ventilation system, we will accommodate that request. In any event, on the construction
of the clubhouse, the parking lot and moving the temporary facility to fhe new location,
the Cherry Lane Recreation, Inc. will abide by all of the Idaho Codes, city and county
codes. We have no intention of taking any shortcuts or not compiying with any of those
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codes. It's a bit - it may have been a bit of a challenge to begin with, but I think the
principals are now geared up and ready to fulfill whatever requests may come of them
at this particular time. The financing has been arranged for this process and as agreed
to by the Planning and Zoning Commission report that after they receive their final
permits they will have a new clubhouse constructed within that six month requirement of
the Planning and Zoning Commission. There isn't - in conclusion the principats request
fihat tonight that if you have questions about the clubhouse structure in and of itself, that
there maybe some questions fhere fihat you're not comfortable with and we would
provide and work with you on any additional information, but tonight specifically we
request thaf at least you give the conditional use permit to finish the parking lot and
move the temporary facility. It seems to be in the way of some ofiher building
arrangements in the area. So that we specifically request for tonight. I thank you for
your attention and I'll stand for questions Mr. Mayor and Councilmen.
Corrie: Any questions?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: I have none.
Corrie: Thank you. We'll take these in order of those who are in favor of approving the
conditional use permit here tonight. If you will limit it to about three minutes, your
comments, and then we'll have those who are objecfing to it and then we'll have the last
again will be Mr. Yost if he's still here will answer any questions that might come up
during the testimony here tonight. So is there anybody here now that would like to
testify in favor of the conditional use permit that are on the Council's agenda. Yes, sir.
Grant: My name is Jim Grant. I reside at 3979 W. Harbor Point Drive in Meridian. My
wife and I are charter members of the Cherry Lane Golf Club Associations having joined
those groups in 1978, the first year of the Meridian Municipal nine hole Cherry Lane
Golf Course. We were pleased to see the second nine holes constructed and then
dedicated in September of 1997. Up to this point in time, golfers at Cherry Lane have
always operated from a temporary clubhouse a limited parking and a remote driving
range. The present application to build a permanent clubhouse and parking lot is
based on the originally planned site and is the logical next step now that 18 holes are
available. After the recent Planning and Zoning Commission public hearing and positive
response, we encourage the City Council to give a rapid approval to the application of
Cherry Lane Recreation, Inc. Naturally fhere should be some conditions placed on that
approval. The new parking lot probably should be completed prior to moving the
temporary clubhouse to the new site. A time limitation should be placed on comptetion
of fhe new clubhouse and then the removal of the temporary clubhouse. The City of
Meridian owns this land, the City of Meridian owns the golf course. Completion of the
permanent clubhouse and parking lot would be a great asset to the Meridian Municipat
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Cherry Lane Golf Course. An asset also to the surrounding residential subdivisions. I
believe time is of the essence and the City Council should not throw up roadblocks or
delays, but instead show a decisive effort to get this project approved and completed
and behind us. Thank you.
Corrie: Thank you, Jim. Any questions of Jim?
Bentley: I have none.
Corrie: Anyone else? Yes, sir.
Shelly: I'm a resident of N. Sea Cove Way 2566 and in my hands here I have a letter
that I'm authorized to read from the Lake at Cherry Lane Homeowners Association, Inc.
Corrie: Can I get your name one more time?
Shelly: James Shelly. I'II give you a copy of this for your records after I'm finished
reading it. This was dated June 15th., but Mayor and City Council, City of Meridian,
reference construction of the permanent clubhouse at the Cherry Lane Golf Course.
Dear Sirs, at a special meeting of the homeowners association held on May 13, 1999
the following motion was made from the floor. Be it resolved that the Lake at Cherry
Lane Homeowners Association hereby goes on record as approving the construction of
a permanent golf course at the Cherry Lane Golf Course. The motion was unanimously
carried. The president of the association was directed to prepare a letter to the
Meridian City Council expressing the association's feeling on this matter. The
secretary, who is myself, of the association was asked to read the letter into the record
at the meeting June 15th, 1999. Now our association right now has approximately 116
to 120 families. There was 80 families that were represented at that association's
meeting.
Corrie: One question. Okay, you said approval of the golf course clubhouse.
Shelly: Yes.
Corrie: Thank you.
Kingsford: Mr. Mayor, my name is Grant Kingsford. I currently reside at 4304 W.
Whiteash Drive Meridian. I recognize that things change. I have been gone for three
and a half years and the applicant was not called the plaintiff I guess. IYs a little bit
frightening for me to be here.
Corrie: I had the same concerns, Grant.
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Rountree: You're always in trouble.
Kingsford: I just wanted to make a couple of comments with regard to the golf course
having been here since the city took it over in I guess 1978. After the second
(inaudible) Cherry Lane Rec. took it over. I was involved with it before that when Mr.
Lovan and I were on fhe golf committee and we received' numerous phone calls at city
hall that people didn't want the city to operate a golf course and so at that time the
Mayor pon Storey said it would be a good idea if we could lease that rascal and so we
did have one person that was a little bit interested that never came forward. So Mr.
Lovan decided that he would do that to make sure fhat it worked and I fihink he had no
idea that he would still be trying to operate a nine hole golf course in 1997. In any event
we had the opportunity to expand the golf course. It's coming along I think fairly nicely
for the Iimited funds that we put into it, but it's a nice playable golf course. Mr. Lovan
also expected as all of us did that at the time that golf course was built that the city
would have a clubhouse for it. At the time it was originally conceived Leavett New
Pacific built the first nine holes, donated that to the city, and promised that we would
receive another nine holes completed and a golf course clubhouse as well. None of
that was forthcoming. As a result Mr. Lovan has never been able to operate a
clubhouse on the city's property. Now we have that opportunity. Finally the deeds are
completed and so forth and I would urge fhe City Council to move along posthaste to
see that that is completed. It's an opportunity that the city has to receive roughly a half
million dollar clubhouse at no expense to the city. I didn't have to strong arm Mr. Lovan
too hard to get him to agree to that. Just over about a 20 what period beating him
rather severely on some holes and losing to him on others, he come to the thinking that
it would be a good idea and I certainly think it would as well and hope you guys concur.
Thank you. Are there any questions because I do know it all.
Corrie: I'm finding, Grant, that Mayors don't know it all. Anyone else would like to
testify?
Margulieux: My name is Gordon Margulieux and I live at 2040 Interlachen Way. I'm
about 50 feet from the existing temporary clubhouse and actually I am in favor of the
new clubhouse but I would like to have the Council consider an option or restriction for
the new clubhouse. The current clubhouse isn't quite adequate for parties or anything
like that. Therefore fhey don't have a lot of parties. Sometimes they do and sometimes
they go late into the night. Sometimes past 12:00. For particular instance now there is
an ordinance part of the - I'm trying to think of the name of it but that does limit the time
that you can actually be making a lot of noise and it's 11:00 but fhis is in the middle of a
residential area. I've looked at the plans. There are no•sound deadening materials they
are planning on using. They are planning on raising the clubhouse six feet above the
ground. My fence according to my covenants can't be above six feet, but their
clubhouse is going to be six feet above the ground. They will have the facilities for
banquets, for parties; for things that may make it go late into the night. This is a family
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subdivision around there. There are kids that go to school. Chaparral is a year round
school. Tomorrow morning there will be kids going to Chaparral. If the weather is like it
is today and they decide that they want to open the doors to the clubhouse while they
have a live band or have a live band maybe not today because it's raining out there, but
have a live band out there. They can have it until 11:00. My kids don't stay up on
school nights until 11:00 but they would be forced to if the noise was loud enough and in
the past it has been. Of course we're only 50 feet. I can throw a golf ball from where
the clubhouse is proposed to be to the closest house on Harbor Point and it goes over
the top of the lake too so the lake will carry it and I don't about you but I've pulled up
next to a number of cars at stop lights where I can hear the music blaring with the
windows rolled up because it's not the music you hear, but you hear the beat. And
that's what we're going to hear at night at 11:00 and then they don't have to shut off
unless I call or somebody else calls and tells them that it's too noisy and I want to file a
complaint. That's the only way it will stop because they can stay open unfil the bar
closes and they do have a bar and I've been witness to bar fights outside of fhe existing
clubhouse. Now the clubhouse is going to be open later past the normal operating of
fhe - so I just - what my proposal is and iYs a very simple one is that they limit outdoor
bands and music past 10:00. Now that's only one hour short of what is already allowed
for the sort of noise ordinance that they have right now. That's my proposal and I would
like you to think about it. Any questions? Thank you very much.
Santi: My name is Ron Santi. I live at 1503 Northgate Avenue. I'm the
secretary/treasurer of the Cherry Lane Golf Association. We have approximately 190
members right now, and our men's association has been growing because the golf
course is getting a lot better and i feel that the opinion of almost all of these golfers is
that we could have a very nice association with the approval of the City Council for the
new golf course so our recommendation is that you do approve this conditional use
permit. Thank you.
Cooper: Good evening. My name is Deleta Cooper. I'm one of the senior members of
Cherry Lane Golf Course. I'd like to address this fhat I have never heard any late
parties going on at fhe golf course. I play there almost every day. I play more games in
Idaho than any woman for the last three years. I'm also associated in helping Jennifer
and my husband in the junior. We have a great junior program and if you've got people
to come tomorrow to support your community you have to support fhe kids so they won't
get in trouble. We keep them very, very busy and they're good kids. I would like you to
approve all fhe bills that are on the agenda tonight for the clubhouse. Thank you.
Lovan-Holloway: Mayor, Councilmen, my name is Jennifer Lovan-Holloway. I am the
general manager of the Cherry Lane Recreation and I would like it just to be stated on
record I'm not sure what the gentleman's name was that was here earlier. It is in our
lease agreement with the city fhat we have to close the golf course at 11:00 so we
cannot keep our hours until 2:00. The party that he was referring to it is on public
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record at the police department that it was shut down at 10:28 so if there is any question
to that, it will be on record for you to look at. Thank you.
Corrie: Anyone else?
Parton: Mayor, Councilmen, I don't have any golf course affiliation here. My name is
Ross Parton. I live at 4219 W. Plumrose here in Meridian. I'm a recent resident here to
Meridian and I just wanted to encourage you to approve this application as it's been
submitted based on fhe fact that I consider this a tremendous asset to the city and to
the residents of this community. Thank you.
Corrie: Anyone else?
Johnson: Dick Johnson 9225 Chinden Boulevard. I'm the surveyor and designer on
the project. We in earlier testimony stated we have no problems with the conditions as
set forth with Planning and Zoning and we want to affirm that. We don't have any
problems whatsoever. We'll work with Planning and Zoning in any way and the Council
in any way which you require for us to construct this clubhouse, the parking lot and
move the temporary clubhouse. And I'm here to answer any questions you may have.
Bird: I have none.
Johnson: Thank you.
Corrie: Anyone else want to testify in favor? Is there anyone here who would like to
testify against the conditional use permit?
McRae: My name is Russ McRae. I reside at 3757 W. Harbor Point. I haven't been a
party to some of the previous proceedings. Is there a time frame set on the construction
of the permanent clubhouse?
Corrie: That will be discussed tonight.
McRae: Okay, in my points I have two concerns. One is that is the utilization of Harbor
Point as a feeder for the clubhouse? Harbor Point to my knowledge is not designed as
an aterial feeder for the number of parking spaces currently designated in this parking
lot and certainly not with the numbers that are designated for the future. I think that's an
exceptional and a dangerous load for strictly a residential driveway in that location.
Secondarily, I do not oppose this project. I simply ask for reason to take place within it.
The second component of that being the timely construction of a permanent clubhouse
and maybe first and foremost that no temporary clubhouse be allowed until a permanent
one is set. And the current clubhouse was a temporary clubhouse which as we've
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Meridian City Council Meeting
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heard tonight is a 21 year project and I think what we need to see is a permanent site
fhere not anot~her 21 years of temporary clubhouse.
Corrie: One question I have. What are they going to do for six months while there's
construction going on? I don't think that a pickup with a bathroom in the back end of it
and a cash register is going to make it and there's a lot of people who have paid money
to play out there and we need something.
McRae: They have a clubhouse now. That will do.
Corrie: All right.
McRae: I mean you've already got a clubhouse that servicing. Let them do 18 holes
with this clubhouse then that apparently met with your approval previously. I don't
understand your objection.
Bentley: The problem is with a temporary clubhouse, there's construction going on.
That land doesn't belong to the city. It belongs to Steiner and they're ready to build on
that lot is why the temporary clubhouse needs to be moved.
McRae: Well that would appear to be a timing problem. But not one to go on the
backs of approving a project with an untimely time frame in itself. I don't think that's for
us to just do another bandage on what needs to accomplish.
Bird: I think in the Planning and Zoning Recommendation on 1.20, which they have
agreed to go to, the temporary clubhouse shall be in use for a period not to exceed six
months. So the existing one would only be moved down there for six months and at
that time the new one would be up and running.
McRae: Thank you, Mr. Bird and that's why I asked the question initially and I didn't
receive an answer. You didn't tell me it was not going to be another 21 years.
Corrie: I'm sorry I misunderstood you.
McRae: So I certainly withdraw my concern about that now knowing this piece of data.
But yes a fimely construction which is required of any other building built within the city
would seem to be prudent. Any other questions? I do have a very genuine concern
about Harbor Point being used, because fhat would be used from several different traffic
patterns I feel in the current design and iYs not designed to handle that kind of traffic. ~
People find a shortcut to some place and then that's it.
Corrie: Thank you. Anyone else?
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Gasaway: My name is Ellen Gasaway. I live at 1950 Incline Way and I just have a
question because I was at Planning and Zoning's and they said six months, but I,
thought that two of those months was for this approval that we're having like tonight and
fihat the clubhouse would be built in four months. Am I wrong on that?
Corrie: Well actually I think if we gave them six months, it would probably be until
January 1St. That would be the construction time. What the engineers have told us it
takes about 30 days for concrete to set and be ready to do. The rest of it can go up
pretty fast. They do have the different structural, mechanical, electrical and landscape
engineers that are going to be following fhe procedures here and that was one of my
main thoughts was I want to make sure of the protection of the golf course and also the
houses around and also for Wally to make sure that everything is correct and as far as
mechanical and electrical and all that by the engineering so I'm sure they will set a limit
on how long the clubhouse. I can't say, I don't vote, but I think that that's probably what
it would come out at. .
Gasaway: Will there also be some kind of a penalty clause in there that if it's not
completed?
Corrie: It's possible. Again I can't get in their heads, but they may.
Gasaway: I'd like to see that aspect because since 1982 we've had a temporary and I
think it's long past - 20 years. Thank you.
Corrie: Anyone else?
Yost: My name is Eva Gay Yost and I reside at 2638 N. Sea Cove Way. One of the
things that I think that everybody has neglected to mention because we're fairly new in
this area. We've lived here less than two years. We're from Boise and so we didn't
really know too much about the golf course or what had gone on here, but I've heard so
many people talk about this 21 year lapse that Wally should have had this clubhouse
built. I've read some minutes from 1978 where Wally was asked a specific question,
how long do you think it would be following the completion of the second nine holes of
the golf course before you would have the clubhouse completed and he said very
plainly within two years. That will be September of 1999. Now I think we're pretty
close on that time frame and I don't think that we need to expect that if's going to be
another 21 years before the clubhouse is finished. There are some things that have to
be gone through here obviously with permits and so forth, but my theory is IeYs get on
with it, let's get going and not just sit here and nit pick about what should have
happened 21 years ago. It would be very difficult to justify a clubhouse and all the
amenities with a nine hole golf course. It's very difficult. The other thing about Harbor
Point is that Talamore is suppose to be the entrance into the golf course. It's been
designed and set up that way. There are no houses facing Talamore and I don't know
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Meridian City Council Meeting
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what the concern is so much about Harbor Point because Harbor Point is the same size
as Interlachen and Interlachen has entertained this traffic for the last how ever many
years it's been there, so that seems to have worked out just fine. So the way that it is
set up with Black Cat and Talamore as being the designed entrance to the golf course
and my understanding was that the sign would indicate that then I don't think that all the
traffic is going to come from Ten Mile through Harbor Point to get to the golf course
because iYs not going to be indicated that way, and a lot of people are not going to
know how to wind their way through the subdivision anyhow and one last thing I just
wanted to mention about the petitions that were turned in. There were approximately
266 names on those petitions and I would appreciate it if that number would be entered
into fhe record.
Bird: Just did.
Corrie: Any questions? Thank you. Any other comments? I want to thank everybody
for keeping it under three minutes. You're a wonderful group. Mr. Yost, do you want to
have anyfhing to say on the as far as the one we had the utilization of Harbor Point as a
feeder for cars as adequate of what was just said by - is that your husband? See,
Grant, we don't know everything and I wasn't about to marry you here in this chamber
tonight. Mr. Yost.
Yost: Mr. Mayor, Councilmen, I defer to my wife.
Corrie: Good point.
Yost: Mr. Mayor and Councilmen, one issue that could be clarified. I stated previously
that financial arrangements had been secured and we will provide a six months letter of
credit for the complete construction costs so that this will be and we'll forfeit that if that is
not done, so we will secure - we'll post a letter of credit for the entire construction
amount. Financing has been secured.
Corrie: Thank you.
Bird: I got one question. You have no problem with the six months? And when does
the six months start? If it takes six weeks to get through our planning to get a permit.
Yost: Mr. Mayor, Councilmen, I'll trust your fairness on this issue. At the best, our folks
are telling us they can construct the facility in four months. If it takes finro months for you
to give us a final permits to go ahead, it's cutting it pretty close, we'll trust on your
fairness on that thing. We think we can complete it in six months. We'd like to have it
finished by the first of the year. At least four months for the construction of the facility.
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Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 13
Corrie: I think probably one of the things that would speed it up a lot is to make sure all
those plans get into the building department and I think with the different engineering
companies it's going to be a lot faster and a lot of questions are going to be taken care
of here, so the quicker they get into the building department and approved then they
can go ahead with the building on that. Anybody else questions? At this point having a
public hearing, I'll entertain a motion if you woufd like. Mr. Rountree?
Rountree: I have some questions for staff. Shari, on the Planning and Zoning
Recommendations item 1.20, it's been mentioned here tonight that clause to me is
unclear. I've worked for the last two years with Wally on issues that are unclear, trying
to get them resolved wifh developers and the city and I think we've made some head
way but I think he needs some more dumped on him. The period of six months. We
need to establish when that starts. Was fhere - and there was considerable discussion
with Planning and Zoning. Does staff have a recommendation of when the timing might
start fhe countdown on this six months?
Stiles: Well I think with Council's action tonight, if they have a favorable
recommendation, the Findings would need to be prepared. I would that with your action
tonight, they could immediately get those plans ready to be submitted or hopefully they
could do that within the three weeks it will be before the Findings are prepared and
maybe we should make it more specific that plans be submitted for building permit
within three weeks. Is that workable?
(Inaudible)
Johnson: I can't speak for the other engineers that were retained to do the structural,
mechanical and electrical. I do know a couple of them said it would be two to three
weeks out before they would be in full operation on the project. They wanted time to
review the plans fhat we've been given by the architect and by my design plans and
then they would proceed on. It may take them (End of Tape)
Johnson: ...you know to have everything in place to turn into you as far as the actual
building plans on the clubhouse. As far as on the temporary structure, moving it over,
the parking lot, a couple of weeks is more than ample time for that.
Bird: Mr. Mayor would you have him identify himself for the record this time.
Johnson: Dick Johnson.
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, I think then we would ask them to get the plans in within
one month from today and maybe give them a total of seven months for the permanent
structure to be complete. That would a total of eight months, but maybe it would a- I
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Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 14
would hate to have it so restrictive that six months came down and somebody says they
are in violation of their conditional use permit and we've got another problem.
Corrie: I think probably if they're willing to - if they're going to do it I mean they're
setting up a bond here. If they don't we would so I don't you know we don't want to
restrict them to the point like you say that they're in violation but we do need some kind
of a guideline for them to get it done.
Gigray: Mr. Mayor and members of the Council for purposes of discussion is I see the
recommendation to the City Council from Planning and Zoning, this request for
conditional use permit not only for the construction of the new clubhouse, but - excuse
me. Not only for the construction of the new clubhouse but also for the temporary
clubhouse at this new location. One of the things if you choose to include as a condition
a little clarification of 1.20 could be that fhe six month period would start to commence
at the time the temporary clubhouse was moved to the new location under this
conditional use permit which probably I don't know when that would be, but that would
probably put you pretty close to the first of the year when that six month period would
start to commence.
Corrie: Mr. Johnson, when is the temporary have to have moved before they knock it
down? They're so close now out there?
Johnson: The 30th of the month is final. ThaYs my understanding. Originally it was set
for the 25ih. There's some talk of maybe the 30th, but the 25th is the court date.
Corrie: So they're pretty well limiting themselves on that. Okay.
Johnson: ThaYs correct.
Corrie: Mr. Rountree, you still have the floor.
Rountree: Well let me get my notes taken here. The other point in that paragraph talks
about and I've heard what the applicant is saying, but it doesn't say that in this point. It
just says a letter of credit or cash should be received by the city as a guarantee for
completion of the permanent. Should it state in there the amount?
Stiles: We have received some quotes from them. They're not complete, but they've
knocked around the half million dollar price. I don't know -
Rountree: I'm not worried about the dollars and cents, but some verbiage in there to fhe
value of the building or some kind of an explanation of what that means.
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Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 15
Stiles: I would hope that the half million dollars would guarantee that. The quotes that I
did see and what I added up was roughly $300,000. That didn't include landscaping
and irrigation system or windows, but it did include restaurant equipment, sprinklers,
framing, roofing, the parking lot.
Johnson: If I may, we're waiting on an appraisal right now which will establish the value
of the structure.
Rountree: Okay, thanks.
Stiles: That would be great.
Rountree: Shari, you also had a comment about sidewalks. Would you direct me to the
staff comment, is it staff comment number 8 that you wanted reinserted in the
recommendations of P & Z?
Stiles: Under general, it would be under 8. We got a little more specific under site
specific comments number 7. Those roadways are not built at this time. I'm a little
concerned also that we don't have any comments from Ada County Highway District,
but I would think in order to complete the parking lot satisfactorily they should have the
sidewalks completed at the same time.
Johnson: If I may again, we have met with Ada County Highway District in session,
have been approved. The parking lot itself has been approved. The sidewalks were a
portion of an additional subdivision going in and at that time, they said we would not be
putting in the sidewalks. The subdivision I believe iYs number eight would be
responsible for that. .
Sfiles: I don't believe that will be completed yet fhis year. It shows existing streetlights.
I was wondering -
Johnson: Talamore is constructed.
Stiles: It's all totally constructed with curb, gutter sidewalk.
Johnson: Curb, gufter, sidewalk, island streetlights, everything.
Stiles: So Harbor Point Drive is the only side -
Johnson: Is the side in question.
Stiles: Okay. And it woutd be part of Lakes at Cherry Lane No. 8. There is a little bit of
a hang up on that project. I'm not sure when that will be completed. I guess if Ada
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Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 16
County Highway District thinks you can complete the parking lot and you can complete
the landscaping to our satisfaction without a sidewalk, I think that would be a little
difficult to do though.
Johnson: Well if we have to do it, we will do it.
Stiles: Okay sounds good.
Johnson: We have met with fhe developer and he has told us that we can enter into an
agreement wifh him if we are required to do that. We would be reimbursed.
Stiles: Great.
Johnson: It's your pleasure.
Rountree: Thank you Shari.
Johnson: I do have one question if I may and that's getting back to tonight. Should we
get approval, when can we submit and start on the parking lot and move the temporary
clubhouse?
Corrie: Well we have to do Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law yet to approve
those, but -
Stiles: I would think they could start on getting those calculations done. At least get
them in the cue so that Brad Watson can review your drainage. How soon can the Land
Group get their landscape plan completed?
Johnson: We're hoping within a week on that. As far as the stuff for Brad, it's sitting on
the desk so it's ready to go.
Stiles: Okay, so basically you just need the landscape plan and the drainage
calculations for Brad to be able to review so that you can get started on that.
Johnson: Correct.
Stiles: As soon as you can get it in, we can at least start reviewing it.
Johnson: Thank you.
Rountree: That's it Mr. Mayor, thank you.
Corrie: Any questions, comments?
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Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 17
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: All right, I'll entertain a motion to close the public hearing.
Bentley: So moved.
Rountree: Second.
Corrie: Motion made and second to close the public hearing. All those in favor of the
motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Corrie: Discussion?
Rountree: Mr. Mayor, given the testimony and the unclear issues as it relates to the
move, the timing of the move, and the amount of potential guarantee for the completion
of that move, and staff's concern for the sidewalk, I would suggest some modifications
to the conditions that Planning and Zoning provided and those would be adding staff
comments specific comment number 7 into the recommendations which would be 1.34
and modifying the recommendation 1.20 with language to the effect that the temporary
clubhouse shall be used for a period not to exceed - I'm just going to put in seven
months for discussion from the date of the physical moving of the current temporary
clubhouse. Prior to moving fhe temporary clubhouse, a letter of credit or cash in the
amount of fhe appraised value of the new clubhouse will be received by the City of
Meridian as a guarantee for completion of the permanent clubhouse and parking lot. I
have no other suggestions in terms of corrections or additions.
Bird: Mr. Mayor, Charlie, I don't agree with the appraised value because I don't think
anybody is going to go out and give them an appraisal on it.
Rountree: It's my understanding from Mr. Johnson that they're in the process of getting
an appraisal on the -
Bird: An appraised value or a cost estimate?
(Inaudible)
Corrie: Hang on folks. We got a dilemma here. Do you want - we'll have to reopen the
public hearing to hear any more testimony? Can you agree on something between
your Council?
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Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 18
Bird: How are we going to you know appraised value means one of us are going to hire
an appraiser to go out and appraise it before we get a-
Rountree: How do you get financing on something like this without -
Bird: Well the financing don't have nothing to do with the appraisal. I mean if they got
the financing. They don't have to have an appraisal. They got a cost estimate, but I
don't think they have an off.icial appraisal.
Rountree: Cost of construction.
Bird: Yeah. I just think we -
Rountree: Give me a better word.
Bird: I'm trying to think of one, Charlie. I don't like appraisal, but -
Rountree: Mr. Mayor maybe Mr. Gigray has some verbiage that would hold up in court.
Gigray: Given the evidence presented at the hearing which you have to go from, I
mean there was a figure of a half million and I didn't hear any objection on the part of
the applicant to that figure which the staff felt I think covered what they saw in the
information that they had. I guess you could leave it nebulous that it would be subject to
an amount subject to the approval of the Planning and Zoning Administrator and then I
guess if they get a hiatus over whether that approval is appropriate or not, then the
applicant could come back to the City Council and seek an amendment of that
condition. I think you could go either of those two ways.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor, Mr. Bird, in the amount not to exceed one half million dollars.
Bird: ThaYs fine with me.
Corrie: That puts a figure to it. Any other comments on the changes or additions to the
recommendation of the Planning and Zoning?
Gigray: Mr. Mayor just a point of question. Councilman Rountree with your proposal,
would we substitute staff comment number 7 for the recommendation of Planning and
Zoning at 1.8 because it references a five foot sidewalk.
Rountree: It references the sidewalk, excuse me Mr. Mayor. It references the sidewalk
but does not name the street specifically as number 7 does, so -
Gigray: Right with your permission I'll probably put those together.
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Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 19
Rountree: That would be fine.
Corrie: Any further discussion? Hearing, none, I'll entertain a motion to have the
attorney draw up the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law.
Anderson: So moved.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: It's been moved by Mr. Anderson second by Mr. Bird to have the attorney draw
up the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law and bring them back to us on July 6~n
We're at the 15th, and then July 6~h. Any further discussion?
Rountree: Mr. Rountree, am I to assume that that motion includes the suggested
changes that were discussed? Okay, thank you.
Bird: Mr. Mayor, will this allow them to move the temporary over there by the 30tn~
Gigray: Point of information. In light of Councilman Bird's question, it would be my
advice that one of the purposes for which we sought the conditional use permit in light
of the history of this particular facility and the need to get a conditional use permit under
existing ordinances part of that is to allow the moving of this temporary structure so my
advice to the Council would be no, they could not move that until an order was signed
granfing the permit. If this is a major problem then the Council should consider having a
special meeting to adopt fhose Findings. We can prepare them for you for your
consideration at an earlier meeting, but I wouldn't recommend fhat be allowed until an
order was signed.
Bird: That's what I wanted to clear up.
Corrie: Mr. Rountree when are you going to have your planning meeting? We could
have a special meeting first and then if you wanted to on that combine the two of them.
Rountree: We could do it on the 22"d. That would be the normal time.
Bentley: Mr. Mayor, I believe both myself and I think Mr. Anderson are out of town that
whole week. You'll be back? Okay, I'll be gone.
Rountree: We can do it on the 22"a
Bird: We need to do it ear~y enough to give them time to get the arrangements made to
get that moved out. That isn't an overnight move.
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Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 20
Corrie: Based on Mr. Johnson's reply here, they have to be at least by the 30th so if we
had it on the meeting on the 22"d and approved the Findings of Facts that would give
them a week and a day. I can't open the public hearing, but does that sound okay? I
mean it's kind of stupid what I'm asking you, but -
Bird: Mr. Mayor, let me ask a question. Is there any way that we can approve the
removal of the temporary at this meeting without doing fihat? I think there is. I don't
know how, but I think there is.
Rountree: We're always open for a good story Mr. Bird.
Corrie: I know the Council can do just about anything they want to within reason and
the law, but is there a way we can do that?
Gigray: Mr. Mayor and members of the Council my advice would be not to allow it until
the order is signed because as part and parcel of the whole process and I think you
impune your own process by doing it without those steps. ThaYs my advice. Now
whether you follow it or not will be up to you. My suggestion is also if there is a need,
we will try to accommodate the need by preparing these Findings as soon as possible
and if you wanted to have a special meeting even sooner than the 22"d, we would try to
do that for you.
Corrie: Well with all the activity with Dairy Days going on, it would be a Monday or a
Tuesday so one day I don't think is going to make a big difference there. The testimony
is they can do it. Glenn will be gone. You're going to be gone? Well that takes care of
that.
Gigray: Well my advice also is that they could take whatever necessary steps they
need in the meantime and fihe staff could process whatever other permits knowing that
these findings will be signed so everything is in place by the 22"d. But we can have
them ready for you by the 22"a
Rountree: Is it possible to have the order as it relates to the move by tomorrow?
Gigray: It's all together so it's all going to be done at one point.
Bentley: I think what he's asking is what are you doing tonight?
Gigray: You set the meeting. We just have to meet your request.
Bird: Does it all have to be under one order?
Gigray: It's more work - it will all be done in one -
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Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 21
, Rountree: Can we meet the notice requirements?
Gigray: Well you're going to have to call a special meeting and then we're under a 24
hour notice provision under the open meeting law.
Bird: Mr. Mayor, if we had it the 22"d, there's no reason then they can't be getting ready
to go and move in. When we pass it the 22"d, what do they have to do then to be
allowed to move the temporary? Anything firom Planning and Zoning?
Stiles: Wasn't the parking lot going to be built first?
Bird: Yes.
Stiles: Well fhey won't have that done by the 22"a
Bird: You're right. Forgot about the parking lot.
Corrie: Okay, I've been told we need to maybe open up the hearing once more just for
a couple of comments and I think that thaYs a pretty good idea, so if I could have a
motion to do that.
Bird: I pull my second.
Bentley: We need to remove the -
Corrie: We need to remove the motion, right?
Bird: I remove my second.
Corrie: Okay motion has been removed. The second (inaudible).
Rountree: Mr. Mayor, I move that we reopen the hearing for item number 1.
Bentley: Second.
Corrie: Motion made and second that we reopen the hearing for comments on item
number one. Any further comments? All in favor say aye.
~ MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Corrie: For clarification who wants to be first on this? Dick?
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Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
~ Page 22
Johnson: My name is Dick Johnson. I heard something about the 22"d. It will be fine.
Corrie: 22"d, the parking lot and the whole thing?
Johnson: We'll certainly be trying. That's a lot of work between now and then.
Corrie: We want it done right.
, Johnson: Right, it's almost impossible. We need to get our plans approved through
Public Works. I can't swear that the - promise you that the landscape plan would be
done by that time, but the landscape is part of the parking lot and you know we will have
landscape according to the city's wishes. It's going to be really tough to get a parking
lot in there, the underground in and move the structure.
Benfley: Mr. Mayor, question for Shari. Your comments on what Mr. Johnson has to
say.
Stiles: I'm sorry Mr. Campbell was interrupting my listening.
Johnson: I said I'd be Superman.
Stiles: The 22"d would be super?
Johnson: I don't feel that it will work, but we will certainly try to accomplish this on that
~ schedule. That's not practical.
Corrie: I don't think iYs going to get through in time. I reafly don't.
Stiles: Obviously you're not going to be able to move it by the 22"d. Right?
Bird: No, they got until the 30th. Just a second.
Stiles: The parking lot is not going to be constructed. The parking lot will take finro
weeks to construct.
Johnson: Once we have approval, we're expecting a week yes from the time we start
our underground footing and the storm drainage system and get the sleeves in under
the driveways and get leveling courses on. First we have to get the engineer's
approval.
Bird: Mr. Mayor, --
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Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 23
Corrie: Dick can I have you - this is not very good, but can I have you step aside just a
second. I think we might have something here that you have to tell us Doug.
Campbell: I really didn't want to do this, but here I am. I think what we need
Bird: Identify yourself.
Campbell: My name is Doug Campbell, address 4085 W. Ustick, Meridian, 83642. I
think where we have to direct this thing is have the Council go ahead and have that
special meeting on the 22"d so we have fhe order to when the parking lot is completed,
if iYs the 1St, the 2"d, the 3~d, we can move it. We're flexible. We can - we don't have to
say Wally we're going to tear down the trailer on the 30th, but we want to go ahead and
get the 22"d get the approval and then we'll start scheduling and get this trailer and like I
say it's probably going to take a week or finro weeks to get approval and probably two
weeks to build the parking lot. At least we're taking the ri~qht direction and we're not
waiting until the facts and findings are approved on the 6t and then start it from there.
At least this thing is working simultaneously.
Corrie: As long as iYs done right is what I think we're concerned about. Everybody
here is concerned that it's done right.
Campbell: I'm not hiring, Steiner is not, but Wally will be hiring the contractors and put
in specifications.
Corrie: Okay. Let me ask a question to Council. Is everybody but Glenn going to be
here the 22"a~
Bird: Yes.
1 Corrie: Okay so we will have a quorum then.
Bird: I've got a question for Gary. On the parking lot Gary, why can't they start the
underground and stuff now if you can approve the thing before the 22nd? If Brad can
get the plans approved if the plans have been turned in, submitted, complete?
(Inaudible)
Bird: I understood they were. Have the plans not been turned in? I understood from
Mr. Johnson they had.
Smith: Councilman, I don't know.
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Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 24
Johnson: Preliminary plans are turned in, the final draft was presented to him today
about 3:00. They are still stamped preliminary until after this meeting at which time we
would take the preliminary stamp and sign seal them by the engineer and deliver them
sometime tomorrow morning.
Bird: Can some of the preliminary work be done for the underground and stuff on that?
Smith: By preliminary I don't know what you mean.
Bird: I don't either. No, what I mean is can't you start putting the underground drainage
and stuff in, getting the compaction down and stuff like that?
Smith: That's part of the plans. I mean thaYs going to be part of the approval is the
sizing of the drainage beds and sizing of the piping and so forth. That's part of the
approvals.
Bird: If's the same plans we have then which we are approving now. All we're asking
for is Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law and that's what we're going to pass, but
the plans aren't going to change. They've met all this staff things already so why can't
you start doing the preliminary work out there if the plans meet our Public Works
specifications?
Smith: Well I guess as soon as we can review the plans, yes.
Bird: Okay.
Corrie: But we don't have the plans in yet.
Bird: You will have them tomorrow morning.
Johnson: We will have them tomorrow morning. I've been working with Brad all along
on this. We gave him what he and I think are the final draft plans today, so that we can
move along on this. According to Brad, it's not going to be a long time out before he
gets them approved. It could be you know tomorrow afternoon. All the calculations
have been done, checked, everything over the period of the last two or three, four
weeks.
Corrie: I# sounds like we could go ahead and do it fhe 22"d Council have a special
meeting, and with what Mr. Campbell said they can go a little longer whatever the case
may be and that will still give you time to do your parking lot. That gives our staff some
time. I don't want to shove it down their throat. So iYs going to be done right. I'm sure
everybody wants it done right so is that all right Gary I mean as long as you have the
time.
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Meridian City Council Meeting
June 15, 1999
Page 25
Smith: We can move ahead as fast as we can on the drainage part, but we're still going
to have to have a completed site plan with the landscaping and everything else thaf's
required for that. Whatever Shari's requirements are is going to have to be part of the
site plan approval. I guess they could start on the subsurface works as soon as we
have it approved, as soon as approve what they have. I mean I understand the
necessity for moving as fast as we can. But it always seems like every time.we move
fast, we get tripped up some place. We'll process it as quick as we can.
Corrie: Was there anybody else that had information for us that wanted to - Wally you
have anything you want to say I mean you don't have to, but I think we're going on the
right road here and getting things done. We're just trying to find out the dates and get
everything put together with staff. Thank you.
Bentley: I move we close the public hearing.
Bird: I second it.
Corrie: Motion made and second to close the public hearing, all in favor say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Corrie: Now, do we want to have that meeting the 22"d then and go ahead with that?
Okay, I'll entertain a motion.
Bird: Are you going to add that to your existing motion? Mr. Anderson?
(Inaudible)
Rountree: Mr. Mayor I move that we instruct the city attorney to prepare Findings of
Fact and Conclusions of Law and Order of Decision to include the recommendations
from the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission with changes on item 1.20 as
discussed previously and the combining of staff's specific comment 7 with item 1.8, and
that upon completion of the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law that the city hold a
special meeting for consideration of those on June 22"d at 7:30 p.m.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Rountree and second by Mr. Bird to have the attorney draw
up the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law with the recommendations and
changes as stated in fhe discussion and hold a special meeting to June 22"d at 7:30
p.m. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion say aye.
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Meridian City Council Meeting
' June 15, 1999
~~ Page 26
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Corrie: So we'll be back the 22"d at 7:30 and we'll sign the rest of it.
Bentley: Mr. Mayor I move we take a ten minute break.
Bird: I second that.
Corrie: Motion made and second to break. All those in favor say aye.
MOTION CARRI'ED: ALL AYES.
(TEN MINUTE RECESS WAS TAKEN)
i ~
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission
May 11, 1999
Page 12
MacCoy: Let me ask the attorney about this one because the letter we received is th~at
they're pulling it off entirely.
Rossman: They're withdrawing their application in its entirety?
IVIacCoy: Well they're certainly entitled to do that. I don't think it's appropriate to
continue it. It's just a-
MacCoy: I don't either.
Borup: Wasn't that the motion to withdraw it?
De Weerd: Yes.
Rossman: Just to withdraw it in its entirety and it won't be brought back before the
Commission.
MacCoy: No, it won't come back, so it's a continued public hearing and they're asking
that they - what they're telling us they're solved their problem. They don't need the
thing to go on.
De Weerd: Right, so I moved to withdraw.
MacCoy: Second on that.
Borup: Second.
MacCoy: All in favor.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
MacCoy: I'm going to stop here for a moment . I want to ask the question from fhe
audience. We have a full house here. How many of you are here item 15? I suggest
that at this moment in time we move item number 15 forward to the next slot so you
people can get a chance to get this completed and go home. Otherwise you'll be here
until at least 10:30 tonigh#. Some of you people are standing up. I don't think you want
to stand that long. ~
ITEM NO. 15: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT
FOR A GOLF COURSE CLUBHOUSE, PARKING LOT AND TEMPORARY
CLUBHOUSE BY CHERRY LANE RECREATIOPI INC-4200 TALAMORE BLVD:
MacCoy: Staff what do you have to say about that?
• •
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission
May 11, 1999
Page 13
Stiles: Chairman MacCoy, Commissioners, we have reviewed the application that was
submitted. This permit application was required because of the fact that a clubhouse is
not a permitted use in the zone. In fact the golf course is not a permitted use in the
zone . There was temporary conditional use permit granted for the modular home back
in 1982. Apparently the conditions for the future site have just become ready for them
to have access to it and have the sewer and water. Those areas are just now being
platted. They apparently do have sewer and water to the site at this time. But though
the application itself doesn't indicate the temporary building, it doesn't indicate
anywhere in the narrative that they're requesting a temporary building. It is shown on
the site plan, and so if there was any misunderstanding by any of the people out here
that may have reviewed the application and only looked at the written portion of it. It
would have been confusing to you, but that's basically where we stand. We have made
comments as far as our recommendations for some modifications to the site, and I'm
sure you'll hear lots of other testimony here tonight about what they would like to see in
their neighborhood.
MacCoy: Thank you. Bruce, do you have anything? Okay, is the applicant here? Oh,
great. All right, we'll start off the other way then. Not having an applicant present, all
those who would like to speak in favor of the request, you can come one at a time
forward.
JAMES A. YOST 2638 N. SEA COVE, MERIDIAN, kDAHO
Yost: My name is James C. Yost. I live at 2638 N. Sea Cove. I would like to speak in
support of the operation of the permit to allow them to move their temporary clubhouse
to the construction site of the new clubhouse and then we can get the new clubhouse
constructed and then the temporary clubhouse can be removed and we'll have us a new
clubhouse and we'll finally have everything where it belongs having a Cherry Lane Golf
Course. I know that it's been difficult for some folks out there. I think the traffic situation
will be much better with the access coming in to the golf course and a parking lot that's
paved and more functional. If it comes in from Black Cat Road. Right now Interlachen
is about the only way to get in there. I think the traffic will be much easier on everyone
once we get that new parking tot built over there. I think it's something that needs to be
done and I know there's been a lot of struggle with getting power to the site, working
with the irrigation districts, working with the power companies, the gas companies and
everyone. I think we're finally in a stage to do that. I recommend that you support this
and allow the operator to get on with finishing up that facility. It will be asset not only to
the community that we live in there, but to the entire City of Meridian. I think it will be
something that we can be proud of. It will generate revenue to the city and those of us
fhat constructed in the area waited a long time for an 18 hole golf course to be
constructed. We waited a long time to move out of that temporary facility where it is,
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Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission
May 11, 1999
Page 14
and we're anxious to get a new facility constructed and do away with the temporary
things and get back to a permanent life there. Thank you.
MacCoy: All right, stay right there a moment. Commissioners, do you have any
questions of him?
De Weerd: I have none.
Borup: None.
MacCoy: Okay, thank you very much. Anyone else who would like to speak in favor or
support of this applicant? Okay, let me turn it around the other way. Anybody here that
would like to speak in the other direction? Yes, go ahead.
MIKE KESLER 3450 W. WOODMONT DRIVE, MERIDIAN
Kesler: My name is Mike Kesler. I live at 3450 W. Woodmont Drive, and I'm opposed
to the temporary structure. I'm certainly not opposed to a permanent structure on the
new site. I first looked at Cherry Lane Village 11 years ago, and oh you bet. There's .
going to be a permanent facility there. It's going to be there just a few years. Well it
was placed in '82 by this P& Z Commission and is still there and it's going to get moved
again and it may be fhere for the next 15 years. So maybe whoever buys my house will
have the same cherishable rights that I've had just dreaming about a new clubhouse. If
it is moved, I fihink there should be some very strict requirements that is replaced within
"x" months. I certainly wouldn't go out years. It only takes about two hundred days to
build the clubhouse. If they can build a house in 120 days, I'm sure fihey can build a
clubhouse in 200. So I'm opposed to moving a temporary facility. I suggest that the
person that individuals or company that has the use of that the rights of that golf course
proceed with a permanent clubhouse to match the rest of the zoning in that area, which
his permanent. We do not allow movable residences in the areas. So why should we
have a movable clubhouse?
MacCoy: Good point.
Borup: Mr. Chairman, I have a question. Sir, then are you proposing to leave the
temporary trailer where if's at until the new clubhouse is built or close down the golf
course?
Kesler: I don't know when they have to have that build by.
Borup: I'm not sure, but they need to operate out of something. What's your proposal
besides - I understand what you're saying. Let's not have another temporary thing
there for going on forever, and that makes -
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Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission
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Page 15
Kesler: There is a temporary you know to meet other - i can't understand why the
planning was done for the other plat before this was done. I guess I could ask that
question, Mr. Borup. Meaning it's kind of the cart before the horse. It's almost like the
residents out there you know you're dog gone if you do and dog gone if you don't.
Borup: Well no that's what I'm trying to figure out is what do you see as the ideal
solution to keep the course operating while the new building is being built?
Kesler: Certainly and I think the thing is fhat there is a restriction of no more than so
many days and certainly less than a year to have normal construction done. We're
coming up on the prime construction months as you well know.
MacCoy: We don't disagree with that, but we've understood that I'm going to have the
applicant has been called. He'll be here quickly that Steiner Corporation which owns
that property has asked them to be moved out as of the last of April and now we're into
May already and we're living or they're living on a borrowed time situation. That's the
reason the temporary situation has come up to light because now -
Kesler: How long ago was the occupant notified that he had to move?
MacCoy: I'm not sure. I'm not sure of the details. I was hoping that they would have
somebody here that can answer that question because I hear various things.
Kesler: It's a good way to chase the commission.
MacCoy: Well we look at it as this is a new commission compared to what the date on
this thing is because they've had this thing in operation 17 years, and we're wondering
come it took them this long to wake up fhe fact that they had to get moved, so we had
our problems too.
Kesler: Right.
MacCoy: Okay we'll get some answers. Thank you.
Barbeiro: Mr. Kesler, I had a question for you. So that I can clarify your opinion, you do
not object to fhe moving of the temporary clubhouse to its new location on the premise
fhat a permanent be in place wifhin one year.
Kesler: Less than one year.
Barbeiro: Okay thank you.
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Meridian Flanning and Zoning Commission
May 11, 1999
Page 16 ~
MacCoy: I understand now my message that the applicant is here. Will he come
forward? He or she, I don't know who is going to speak. Is Wally here?
WALLY LOVAN LESSEE OF CHERRY LANE GOLF COURSE, MERIDIAN
Lovan: I would like to try to answer the question someone has. I came here this
evening to ask for a temporary permit to move the clubhouse existing clubhouse to get
our parking lot going. That is the number one thing to move the clubhouse. We have to
have the parking lot done and to also start construction of the new clubhouse. I would
like to have Mr. Dick Brown be my speaker. He knows all these things. He's been
working with me for almost a year now. He is a surveyor and has a company that does
some of the engineering for him so he's very, very knowledgeable of the technical
things that you people might want to ask. I'd be most happy to try to answer any
questions that anyone has now.
De Weerd: Mr. Chairman, I guess I would just have a question as far as what is your
time frame?
Lovan: My time frame right now here the first of March, I had all my subcontractors
already lined up.
Borup: Have you applied for a permit? It looks like you got a full set of construction
plans. Have you applied for the building permit yet?
Lovan: Yes.
De Weerd: No, I just wanted to know the time frame when you think construction will be
compieted.
Lovan: I would say within four months of the date of starting.
De Weerd: And thaYs the parking lot and the building itself?
Lovan: Yes.
De Weerd: Okay, that's the only question I had.
MacCoy: Okay, Mr. Lovan just to clarify in my mind here, I have read some material
and I have heard about some of this where you presently have your trailer, Steiner
wants that land back and he indicated that he had given you an eviction notice the end
of April.
Lovan: Yes.
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Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission
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Page 17
MacCoy: And you're living on borrowed time now.
Lovan: I am.
~
MacCoy: Is he willing to let you sit there a little longer because I hate to move a
temporary unit. I'd like to see you build the new unit where it is and we don't have to
fiddle with the temporary unit.
Lovan: I would prefer not to move the unit. I'm not sure that he would wait as long as
another four months or so.
MacCoy: He wants ihat land back I guess to build on is what he's talking about.
Lovan: He has already started part of the construction.
MacCoy: Oh, he has.
Lovan: He's constructing the roadways now.
MacCoy: I've seen equipment out there. I was wondering what was going on. So the
reason you're asking to move your temporary operation is because the very fact that he
wants you ouf of there and otherwise you would be preferred to stay where you are until
you finish your final building, right?
Lovan: Yes.
MacCoy: Okay, I just wanted a clarification.
Lovan: One of the reason the clubhouse itself is now sixteen, seventeen years old, but
it is wired so that we can do our rental carts, and all we have to do is move it and have it
hooked up and we can service in all our rental carts. We have 52 rental carts now.
MacCoy: We're working to actually a legal case here from the standpoint that you're
going to have to move it because of the owner of the property says you must be off of it.
Lovan: Yes.
MacCoy: So that's the reason the board will have to look at making a temporary
change to a permanent change. Okay, can Mr. Brown come forward?
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Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission
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Page 18
Borup: Mr. Chairman, maybe I'd like to just reiterate maybe what Mr. Lovan has said~.
At this point, your application, your building permit is applied for. Is it ready? Have they
approved it yet or are they still reviewing?
Lovan: I really don't know.
Borup: But it's in the process? So it's your intention fhen would be to start construction
as soon as you have approval from the city to begin?
Lovan: Yes. My number one thing is to get the parking lot done, and we have all the
plans in. We have the -
Borup: You need that done to even use the temporary building.
Lovan: Yes, right.
Borup: And then as soon as the city has approval on the plans and the building permit
received then you're ready to start immediately on construction.
Lovan: Right.
Borup: I think that probably would answer a lot of their concerns that other people here
have.
Lovan: I guarantee you that as soon as we get the new clubhouse open that we will get
rid of that mobile home.
MacCoy: Commissioner Borup, we have a staff comment coming up here.
Borup: Okay, I fhink that is all the questions I had.
Stiles: I just wanted to clarify for you no building permit has been submitted for anything
on this project. The plans we got the revised plans that you got in your packets which
are dated May 1999 we got Friday. So this has not gone - they would need to have a
certificate of zoning compliance before they could start processing the building permit
application, and they can't get a certificate of zoning compliance unless they receive a
conditional use permit and they comply with those conditions.
Borup: So you're saying they can't even turn it in until it gets through this process?
Stiles: Right.
Borup: Okay.
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Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission
May 11, 1999
Fage 19
Stiles: Once it gets through your possibly once it gets through Planning and Zoning
Department, it goes to City Council prior to findings. There's a possibility that they may
consider starting to process it based on all of the conditions of approval but we don't
know what those conditions are right now so we can't issue a certificate of zoning
compliance.
Borup: That makes sense. So you're saying if everything looks good, they could
maybe start on the parking lot. Perhaps not the building, but get the parking lot going.
Stiles: Well at least once they get through at least through the council at their public
hearing.
Borup: Right, okay.
Stiles: Which normally we would wait clear until the findings were done and approved
so that would save them some time.
Borup: So the faster this gets approved, the faster they can start building.
De Weerd: Shari, does that mean probably July until it gets through the process?
MacCoy: If's hard to tell.
Stiles: It could be June or possibly the first meeting in July.
De Weerd: Okay.
MacCoy: All right, can we have Mr. Brown come forward please.
Lovan: I would like to ask one question. If we cannot get this done and Mr. Steiner
gives us an eviction notice, what do we do then? How do we operate the golf course?
MacCoy: Well that's what we're trying to work out for you from our side here, so we're
not disagreeing wifh you. We're trying to get the job done for you in the proper format.
DICK JOHNSDN
Johnson: My name is Dick Johnson. Dr. Brown is my golf partner. My address is 9225
Chinden Boulevard and I can try to answer any questions you might have or we can go
through the conditional use permit whichever you wish.
MacCoy: The items that - you've received fhe staff's comments?
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Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission
May 11, 1999
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Johnson: Yes, we have.
MacCoy: Okay, all right let's start with those
Johnson: On the CU comments themselves, we have no problems with items 1 and 2.
Item number three, the sewer and water, if I may put my glasses on here. No utilities
are shown on the site plans and how the temporary structure will be serviced (End of
Tape)
Johnson: ...permitted, installed, inspected and all approved prior to this meeting. It
happened about three months ago that we put in the utilities for the temporary
clubhouse structure. The gas, power and telephone are not in place. They are
pending the power company's time table. The telephone company has said they would
put in a temporary phone for us. Item number four we have no problem with. Item
number five as far as signage, there is a sign proposed on fhe drawing. It's a 4 x 8
redwood sign. It is out of the site area for the traffic. There again it would be four foot
high. A request will be made for a future sign at the intersection of Talamore at Black
Cat Road which we anticipate to be a stone an engraved stone set in the median there
if we can get that approved. There's an existing sign on Cherry Lane indicating where
the present clubhouse is. We would like to leave that in place for sixty days. That
would give us time to notify the public that the clubhouse has been moved. And
drainage plans for item number six are complete and ready to be submitted. We're just
holding under the outcome of this meeting.
MacCoy: I'm looking for a diagram of fhe sign.
Johnson: Oh you want to see a picture of the sign?
MacCoy: Yes. We need fhat to take a look to see what you're going to say.
Johnson: Yeah, it just say Cherry Lane Golf Course.
MacCoy: We have to know how big and wha# it looks like and so on.
Johnson: Okay.
MacCoy: Go on.
Johnson: That was under conditional use comments for general requirements. There
again for items number one, irrigation ditches what have you, we agree with that. Item
number two domestic wells, we agree with that. It's not applicable for this project.
Number three the off street parking will be provided in accordance with the local
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Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission
May 11, 1999
Page 21
ordinances. We concur with that. The parking lot, landscaping, lighting, drainage, ~
traffic flow, what have you are all designed and ready for submittal. Items 4, paving and
striping, we agree with that. That is shown on the plans.
Borup: Mr. Johnson, I don't want to interrupt you, but at least for my benefit, I would
rather you just went through and mentioned items that you maybe didn't agree with.
Johnson: Items we don't agree with.
Borup: Or something you had a concern with because we've read all the others, so if
there's any --
Johnson: Site specific, I had one question on the 45 trees required. In a previous
conversation with Shari Stiles, we talked about the tree count including the area around
the clubhouse lying east of the Eight Mile Lateral, and I wanted to make sure that was
still part of the firee count.
Stiles: If we can count what is shown on the plan, east the Eight Mile Lateral takes in a
lot of territory over there, so -
Johnson: No, only within the bounds of the project. The line shown in there, Shari.
Stiles: If they meet our requirements for a three inch caliper tree. The spruces would
not be included as meeting that requirement. They need to be at least six to eight feet
high_ No conifers of that size, three inch.
Johnson: We have no problems with that. My next question would be with the
sidewalk. There's a comment in here about installing number 8, providing 5 foot wide
sidewalk in accordance with the city ordinance. This project is already part of the Lakes
No. 4 Subdivision and they are required to put in curb, gutter, sidewalk, full street
restoration through there. We are prepared to get with them and widen the sidewalk to
five feet. That's not a problem.
Borup: They~should already be five feet.
Johnson: Pardon?
Borup: Aren't they already five feet?
Johnson: The ones on Talamore are. Talamore is constructed. On Harbor Point Drive
that is not constructed. The plans were signed February -
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Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission
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Page 22
Borup: Okay, you're saying that the developer is putting in streets, curb, gutter, ~
sidewalk and you're doing the developing within the site. Is that what you are saying?
Johnson: The developer of the Lakes -
Borup: Yes, is doing all the roads.
Johnson: Yes.
Borup: Okay.
MacCoy: He's required to put in five foot as it is.
Barbeiro: Mr. Johnson, when will the W. Harbor Point Drive be operational?
Johnson: I tried to find that out today, but they didn't have a time schedule that they
could tell me. Hopefully -
Barbeiro: Within a year?
Johnson: Oh, yes. Plans have been approved and everything. They just preparing for
construction now.
MacCoy: Okay moving on what else did you have comment?
Johnson: We don't have a problem with anything on that. I just wanted to clarify the
points on the tree count and the sidewalk. As far as Mr. Lovan's comments about when
we're ready to start consfiruction, the parking lot is designed, ready to submit this week
upon approval of that, we're ready to start paving. Like I said we have the underground
utilities in for the temporary site and there was a comment in there about six months
maximum for the temporary clubhouse. We feel that's more than enough.
MacCoy: Okay you're saying that you wouldn't have to have it that long in other words,
right?
Johnson: Well we would certainly hope not. It depends on the approval process.
MacCoy: I understand that yes. That's the part you can't control and neither do we.
Johnson: And how soon he gets kicked off the current site.
MacCoy: Yeah, I realize that.
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Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission
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De Weerd: Mr. Chairman, one other comment I would like Mr. Johnson to remark on
would be the fire chiefs comments.
Johnson: Regarding the fire hydrant?
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Johnson: There's an eight inch currently stubbed out to the property line. That eight
inch in order to be taken over to the east side of the canal has to be engineered
showing the valve structures and the bends in fhe pipe. Once the pipe is over there we
just put the fire hydrant on it right there and then once the clubhouse is actually
operational we remove the temporary clubhouse then that eight inch line will connect to
the existing clubhouse with the backflow prevention valves and we'll have sprinklers in
the clubhouse.
De Weerd: But you will have an adequate hydrant for the temporary?
Johnson: Yes, yes.
MacCoy: And you understand the requirement for sprinklers in the building?
Johnson: Yes.
MacCoy: Basement.
Johnson: Yes, it will be throughout the building both levels.
MacCoy: That's for your protection as well as the code.
Johnson: Sure.
MacCoy: You got anything else on that? Staff, do you have anything at this moment?
Freckleton: Mr. Chairman, members of the commission, I just wanted to make a couple
of points of clarification. Site specific comment number three, we talked about
repayment of late comers fees. I learned today that the clubhouse area was not
included in the late comer service area, so they will not be subject to those fees. So just
want to clarify that point and then on site specific item number seven the sidewalk -
those sidewalks are included in the planning for Lake at Cherry Lane No. 8 so they will
be built.
Johnson: That's correct. I did say number four, didn't I?
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Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission
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Page 24
Barbeiro: ~ Mr. Johnson, assuming that you had a building permit tomorrow, how quickly
could you have parking and clubhouse constructed and ready for operation?
Johnson: If we had the building permit tomorrow, the contractor is prepared to start
tomorrow on the parking lot. Once the parking lot is in place, we can move the
temporary structure over. We're ready to break ground if funding is available and you
know we have to have the approval of the actual building plans, but then we'd be
underway and we are hoping for four months from beginning to completion.
Barbeiro: 120 days of construction from - that's for the building alone. What I'd like to
know is it's a bare piece of land now, parking lot, clubhouse operational. If you had your
building permit tomorrow for everyfhing.
Johnson: Maximum five months.
Barbeiro: Thank you.
MacCoy: Staff do you happen to have a set of drawings yet other than the stuff we
have right now? Okay how soon will we -
Johnson: Which drawings is that, sir?
MacCoy: Well all I have so far is this set right here which is very difficult one to read. I
am looking for a set of drawings that we can take a look at, the building material, the
structures and everything else. So I'm looking for when can we see something like
that?
Johnson: We will approach or get a hold of the contractor or the architect right away
and ask him for a full set of 24 x 36 (inaudible).
MacCoy: Ship them down to the Planning and Zoning Department.
Johnson: Oh yeah.
MacCoy: All right thank you. You can take a seat I guess now at this point. All right,
where were we? Is there anyone else that would like to make a statement for this? Let
me go back to that point right now since we interrupted our run. Okay, anybody else
here would like to make a statement to in the opposite direction against this operafiion?
PAUL NEWCOMB 3837 W. HARBOR POINT DRIVE, MERIDIAN
Newcomb: I'd like to make several points on this. I'd like to start when I first received
the notice from the City about this hearing, I concoc#ed my own letter and spread it out
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Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission
May 11, 1999
Page 25
amongst the area residents and spoke with numerous residents and request they give
me their written were they not able to make it to this meeting. I'd like to submit these to
the commission for your perusal at a later date. Now absolving myself as the
spokesman for those people, I'd like to change my hat back to Paul Newcomb, zealot
and make a few points here. The contract between Cherry Lane Recreation and the
City of Meridian was nudge, nudge, wink, wink signed on the 3~d day of October, 1978. I
believe at that time the director of Cherry Lane Recreation probably had an inclination
that he needed a structure to operate out of and a conditional use permit was let in 1982
allowing the current trailer house to be sited at its current location and for the last 17
years, the trailer house has been the primary operating facility. The information that
was given by Cherry Lane Recreation tonight makes me extremely concerned. They
seem to be very evasive as far as a start date. The question that was posed to them
numerous times was how long from the day that you have your building permit in hand,
how soon will you have a structure made. Well it depends on funding, it depends on
this, it depends on that. I would question the commission on a couple of issues. I've
reviewed the conditional use permit. There is no mention in it anywhere of a concrete
time line. They will have the temporary structure out in 120 days. They'll have the
temporary structure out in 180 days. There is no mention of that anywhere in the
conditional use permit.
Borup: Mr. Newcomb a permit hasn't even been issued yet.
Newcomb: In the application, excuse me.
Borup: This commission would put restrictions on it.
Newcomb: I understand that. It just occurs to me fhat this process has been drug out
seventeen years through conditions and circumstances which Cherry Lane Recreation
has really done nothing to mitigate and it would very much be my request that were the
commission to approve it that they put extremely strict time lines and if possible a
monetary bond be put up or a monetary fund be enforced should that time line be
violated. My personal preference is here is that the City take the opportunity to right a
wrong that was written on October 13th of 1978 allowing me a moment to read the
paragraph three from the agreement of lease befinreen the City of Meridian and the
Cherry Lane Recreation regarding rental. In lieu of paying any monetary rental until the
second nine hole golf course is constructed and leased to the lessee, lessee shall at its
own cost and wifhout any obligation liability or indebtedness of the lessor, and within a
reasonable time operate, conduct and carry on a golf course upon the leased premises
for the use and benefit of the public generally in accordance with the objects or purpose
of its incorporation. Lessee, meaning Cherry Lane Recreation shall pay the sum of
$6,000 per year in advance as rental. This annual payment shall first become due on
the first day of October next following the date upon which an additional nine hole golf
course shaH have been constructed by or on befiaif of lessor and leased by it to lessee
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Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission
May 11, 1999
Page 26
herein on substantially the same terms and conditions as contained in this agreement.
Since the day the Cherry Lane Golf Course was opened, Cherry Lane Recreation did
not pay the City one single dime in revenue in any way, shape or form. It was not until
the second nine was opened up that the rental clause in the lease actually came into
effect, and I believe that was September of '97. Would someone please correct me if
I'm wrong. I believe that we as a city have the opportunity to correct this wrong. I can
tell you the obvious not having figures to recite, but having researched it to some
degree, $6,000 for an 18 hole golf course is a lease payment that anyone would love to
have, myself included. But it's not realistic for a municipal golf course to only be
receiving $6,000 in rent. I would request that the Commission deny the conditional use
permit application, allow the golf course the current lessor to be evicted from the
temporary facilities, allow the golf course to be shut down, which would cause the
lessee to be in default according to paragraph nine page 4 of the agreement of lease
and at that point, the City would be able to take over ownership and management of the
Cherry Lane Golf Course and receive the monetary reimbursements that are due with
an 18 hole course for the City. Any questions?
Borup: Just a comment. Do you realize you're talking to the wrong body? We don't
have the authority to -
Newcomb: You do have the authority to decline - you have the authority to recommend
that the conditional use permit not be granted. At that point then it's up to the rest of us
to go to fhe City Council.
Borup: It goes to City Council and they're the ones that negotiated the lease and the
whoJe thing anyway.
Newcomb: I understand that. All we're looking for is your recommendation that the
conditional use permit not be granted.
Borup: So your recommendation is to shut down the golf course essentially.
Newcomb: No, my recommendation is for you to -
Borup: I mean your preference is for the golf course cease business and a new -
Newcomb: My preference was to allow the golf course to shut down to correct an error
which could have been fixed 17 years ago, and allow the City to number one take
control of the revenue which the golf course generates.
Borup: Again those are issues that we can't address, so as far as
(InaudibJe)
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Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission
May 11, 1999
Page 27
Borup: You're asking us to deny the request.
Newcomb: Yes, I am.
Borup: Okay, thank you.
De Weerd: Mr. Newcomb, what would that - your recommendafion to deny based on
what?
Newcomb: Based purely on the fact that the city has the opportunity to -
De Weerd: I know but we can't take that into account. We can't look at those factors.
What is your recommendation?
Newcomb: Cherry Lane Recreation had a conditional use permit granted in 1982 that is
17 years ago. Cherry Lane Recreation has a history of ignoring the obvious. They
know the conditional use permit is conditional. They have ignored the obvious that they
need to have a permanent structure. Not until they received an eviction notice from
their landlord did it actually inspire them to actually do something to mitigate the
problem. It is my opinion that given the opportunity Cherry Lane Recreation would
move the trailer house to the end of what is now number two and leave it there for
another 17 years. I would recommend that this commission does not take Cherry Lane
Recreation's application as it currently stands. As there is no enforceable way to
prevent them from leaving it sit there for another 17 years as the application is written,
there is no enforceable way to prevent them from leaving the temporary structure there
for 17 years.
MacCoy: Let me tell you a little bit here. We have the date that you talk about. We
have it in stacked here. We have the history, we have everything and this commission
is a different commission than allowed this to happen before and we have been in
consultation for the last couple of months on the legality of all this and how we can
straighten it out. We agree with a lot of the people here that it has been 17 years. That
should never have happened, and so we can't talk about the history. We can talk about
fhe future and that starts now.
Newcomb: I am merely that as the P& Z Commission, you have an opportunity to
make a recommendation to the City Council and then you leave it to us to go to the City
Council and make our views known to them in the same light.
MacCoy: And you will because that's the way the system works.
Newcomb: Yes.
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Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission
May 11, 1999
Page 28
Barbeiro: Mr. Newcomb, speaking from the present and the future, it's fair to say that
you have little faith in the word of Cherry Lane Recreation.
Newcomb: Yes.
Barbeiro: Your recommendation is not necessarily one that is operational, but one that
is procedural. It is your recommendation and correct me that we decline the temporary
use permit, that procedurally that would not allow the golf course to continue operations
under the lease with Cherry Lane Recreation. At that point Cherry Lane Recreation
would be in default of the lease and would allow it or open it up to either the City or
other bidders to be -
Newcomb: According to the lease, if the lessee is in default, it automatically reverts the
City's ownership and management.
Barbeiro: Okay that opens it up to either fhe City operating it or the City putting out to
bid shall we say and which would also allow Cherry Lane to be amongst the bidders to
operate the facility.
Newcomb: Correct.
Barbeiro: Thank you.
Rossman: I think it's important before we have any further testimony to keep this
proceeding from exploding into issues that are not relevant for this proceeding, and
relevant issues for this proceeding are whether or not this applicafion for a conditional
use permit for a temporary clubhouse and a permanent clubhouse comply with the
Meridian Planning and Zoning ordinance and are compatible with the standards set
forth within the ordinance regarding conditional use permits. Whether or not the golf
course is an efficient outlet for the City of Meridian is not a relevant issue for this
proceeding. Is the clubhouse and the application consistent with the standards and the
ordinance are the only relevant issues in this proceeding, and obviously delay as to
whether or not they are going to actively construct this facility once the zoning is
permitted and the building permit is issued is certainly a relevant issue.
(Inaudible)
De Weerd: Mr. Kesler.
MacCoy: Do you want to come fonrvard here?
(Inaudible)
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Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission
May 11, 1999
Page 29
MacCoy: Wait a minute. You got to get up to the mike here, because it's got to be
(inaudible).
Kesler: Okay, just one question. You were going to wait to answer and that was when
was the eviction notice provided to the present tenant?
MacCoy: You'll have to ask them, but my understanding was that it was in the month of
April and it gave the date as the end of fihe month of April. I don't know when they
received it. I don't have that information.
Rossman: The City didn't issue that notice, sir.
MacCoy: Steiner issued it because it's their property.
Kester: Okay.
MacCoy: All right come on up here.
Tucker: I agree with Mr. Newcomb, but what I'm concerned about is the parking area.
It shows an entrance or exit on the W. Harbor Point. I don't know if you have the same
drawing.
MacCoy: Excuse me, would you state your name again for the record.
Tucker: Dave Tucker and I tive at 4014 W. Harbor Point. This schematic that I have of
the - is this what you have? It shows the parking area and the main entrance is on the
boulevard, the Talamore Boulevard, but it shows another entrance or exit on W. Harbor
Point. What I would like is that eliminated because on W. Harbor Point, there are
retirees and down the street if people go that way and there will be a lot of traffic.
There's a lot of little kids down there. But if you eliminate that entrance or exit from that
parking area on Harbor Point, all traffic will be on fhe boulevard.
MacCoy: Okay good point.
Tucker: Very good point, thank you.
Borup: I have a question Mr. Chairman. Yes, you were saying there's - where are the
residents on Harbor Point? I assume that it's further down the street north and east.
Tucker: If you go east on Harbor Point, there's no homes right there just east of the
canal yet, but there will be. But as you go east on Harbor Point, there are a lot of
retirees who bought homes -
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Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission
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Borup: Well I guess my question would be why would that other exit put more traffic on
W. Harbor Point?
Tucker: I'm saying if you get rid of that, there will be no traffic on Harbor Point.
Borup: Well yes it intersects down there with Talamore. The same cars can still go.
Tucker: Right, but that.'s the boulevard and they will be heading out towards Black Cat.
Borup: And so if they turn in on Harbor Point, they won't go to Black Cat if that's where
they want to go?
Tucker: Well they may, but they might turn right too, so what I'm telling you is as a
citizen I don't want that there.
Borup: Well I'm saying it's not going to make any difference. People are going to go
where they want to go.
Tucker: Yeah, thaf's true.
Borup: And if someone lives on W. Harbor Point, they are not going to drive to Black
Cat and come around -
Tucker: I'm not talking about the people that live there, and I think you know that.
Borup: But people are going to go the shortest and most convenient way, and whether
they have to come out on Talamore and circle around to W. Harbor, they are still going
to go there and I don't know, maybe I- there may be some - I think there's probably
some ofher issues on the amount of exits that are required on a project this size.
MacCoy: Yes, I think there is. We have to take a look at that, but he's raised the
question so it's fine.
Borup: Most of the homes are to the east though. Is there anything directly across the
street was what I was wondering really.
Tucker: On Harbor Point? No.
Borup: Okay thank you.
MacCoy: Anyone else?
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Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission
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SHIRLEY TUCKER
Tucker: My name is Shirley Tucker and I'm at 4014 W. Harbor Point, and I just want to
clarify something that my husband had brought up. What we're talking about is on W.
Harbor Point Drive all the houses face the road. We have a setback of I don't know
what it is.
MacCoy: About 20 feet.
Tucker: Yeah. We all face the road. We have children, we have family things going on
there. Talamore does not have any houses facing the road. It's a boulevard. It's all
just a greenway through there. What we were thinking is if they could open up if they
closed this and open up another exit here, it would naturally flow all the traffic or the
majority of the traffic towards Talamore and back on Black Cat. Now you get someone
who lives there, they're going to be aware of the way the houses are on W. Harbor Point
Drive and they will go slow. We have a problem with speeding now, but it's mainly the
construction guys. So we're kind of looking at people who get lost, people who you
know, it's a very easy thing just to come in Talamore and if the exit flows back out
Talamore, they won't get lost where it goes out Harbor Point, they're going to sit there
and go now which way did I come in? I don't know maybe men don't do that, but
women do. And so we were thinking that it might just be a better traffic flow if you had
them come in and go out another exit right on the same boulevard where there no
houses facing and less chance of children running out there. Thank you. Any
questions?
MacCoy: I guess not. Thank you. Anyone else would like to speak at this time in our
open pubiic hearing?
JACK FROST
Frost: My name is Jack Frost. I live at 2200 Oak Hills Drive. I'm wearing two hats here
tonigh#. The first one is I'm president of the Cherry Lane Homeowners Association 3, 4
and 5, which is (Inaudible) and Oak Hills and Woodmont and (Inaudible) and Birdie
Drive and Tupelo and all that area in there. Speaking for the president and not of all the
homeowners, what I'm concerned about is making sure that we do have a professional
and good clubhouse and outbuildings that are new. That's our biggest concern so that
our property value stays the same, not increases and iYs a beautiful area out there and
we want to keep it that way. I know there are new homes going in on Lake Harbor or-f
think that was the street and on Talamore and all that area out there. We do-we are
concerned about that and want something professional in there. A long time coming
and we're glad to see the clubhouse is going to be built. My other hat is an individual on
Oak Hills Drive. I do approve and would approve a conditional use permit, but I do not
approve of moving the trailer house over there. I don't even see how iYs going to make
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Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission
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it when they (Inaudible). To answer the question, what's the alternative, I don't know
what the alternative is. He's had 17 years to think about fhis and so that's-I don't
know, but if you do approve it and let him move that trailer over there, there better be
some restrictions for removal within 60 days, or whatever. I'm with the gentleman who
was up here earlier. If there-if he does not comply with the building conditions in four
months, or five months, whatever it is, but that (Inaudible) clause be included. IYs a
long time coming, nothing personal against Mr. Lovan, I like Mr. Lovan and a lot of
people that work there, but I think we ought to move on and let's get that sucker built
and make it professional.
MacCoy: We agree, maybe to ease your mind, one of the things I just asked for earlier
was the drawings because we agree collectively that we want a quality place out there,
if we are going to have a house, let's make it right.
Frost: Yeah, Mr. Lovan showed me the drawing and it looks real nice.
MacCoy: Yeah, we still have a lot of questions yet. We are going to be looking at it
pretty tightly. Any other questions for him?
De Weerd: I have none.
MacCoy: Any other person out here who would like to feel inclined to come up and say
something? Come ahead.
GORDON MARGULIUX, 2040 INTERLACHEN WAY, MERIDIAN.
Marguliux: I'm actually less than 50 feet from the clubhouse right now. My concern, I
just got here, I don't know what else other people have mentioned. My sole concern
right now, because it's actually to my benefiit because the traffic will cut down drastically.
We often have traffic parking on our street for the golf course, so I'm glad to see they
have a lot of parking over here. There is a lot of things that they've done well, but my
concern is the noise that will come from the new clubhouse, not in the sense from the
golfers, but from the sense-the fact that they have a new clubhouse and will want to
have things in it like parties and things like that. Over the course of ten years where we
have lived we have had a couple instances where the golf course has had parties and in
those cases we've felt the brunt of the vindictiveness of the Lovans for our concern
about the noise that they generate. A number of times we've had to go out there after
midnight to ask them to turn down their amplifiers, and we've done it nicely, we're not
ranting and raving out there, but we have gone down and found Wally and asked him.
I've had, I've felt the vindictiveness the following day from Wally, my kids have felt the
vindictiveness, my wife has felt the vindictiveness. At one time, they even had a
wedding which the police came, we didn't call them, but the police came and had to
break it up because of a fight between the bride and groom, but what we did in each
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Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission
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case, the following day or following week, we've gotten some (Inaudible) from the ~
Lovans showing their discomfort with our apparently in being there, as in fhe case with
the wedding, which we didn't call at all. There is no as far as I know, no noise
ordinance in Meridian-there is now? We called on the second time, since they didn't
seem to want to do anything about it. We called the police and they told us that there
was no noise ordinance and because they owned a liquor license they could go a lot
later than 12:00. So my concern is that in the middle of the summer fime when the
weather is really nice out there and they open the doors and they come onto the golf
course and the band is playing and the school children who have to go to Chaparral, a
year round school and trying to get some sleep and they could care less. This is an
open golf course, there is no barriers. They are going to build this thing six feet above
the ground. My fence can't be over six feet above the ground, but they are going to put
this thing six feet above the ground and taper it off in the direction of the golf course, or
across these houses. I can throw a golf ball from where they want to have it over to the
first house on Lot 18 on Harbor Point. My concern is that they don't care, they haven't
cared in the past, and they won't care in the future and if you give them a nice golf
course clubhouse, they will want to do that. What my proposal is that they use sound
deadening material which is not specified right now in there that they make the windows
smaller, they have big pane glass windows which will just carry that sound through
there, that they will have a curfew that at 10:00 which is not unreasonable, that 10:00
there will be no outside activities at the golf course, I don't care if they play golf, that's
never been a problem, but I think if you look at fhe plans, their plans are set up with a
dining area that faces that lake, which there is no noise barriers there. All they have
that keep-is used as a buffer, they have three trees, three inch diameter Ash trees that
they are going to have in there. So thaYs my concern. Any questions?
MacCoy: No, anyone else? Come ahead.
DICK JOHNSON.
Johnson: I just have, I have to comment on a couple of things that have been said. It
keeps coming back to the 17 years of this clubhouse being there. In 1982 at the
Planning and Zoning Commission hearing, Mr. Lovan said he would move that
clubhouse the day the road was in and utilities were there, that happened in 1997. We
have taken a year to do the design. We are ready to start. The parking lot was not
owned by the city until 1995. Therefore, no construction could have been started in
there prior to that time. Parts of the clubhouse site (Inaudible) were not deeded to the
city unfil 1997. Thus establishing a complete clubhouse site. Just one other thing about
that old clubhouse, believe me, Wally and every player out there wants it gone as soon
as possible. Once we are allowed to start our construction, we will get in there and we'll
get it done and we will get rid of that clubhouse.
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Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission
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Borup: Mr. Johnson, the site that this application is for, is that the site that had been
planed for the clubhouse from the beginning?
Johnson: Since 1975, yes.
Borup: Okay, so it was just waiting for the roads to get in?
Johnson: For the roads to get in place and the infrastructure as far as power, sewer,
water, that became available in the fall of 1997, we started on the project in 1998.
Borup: So this was the original site that was planned all along? Thank you.
Johnson: Yes, we just didn't have parking or the area for the parking lot.
MacCoy: Somebody back here wanted to have a say.
LOREE LOVAN.
Lovan: It's probably not for the benefit of the commission here, just for my own
knowledge, I work with ReMax professionals, we've had to have party permits and noise
permits and that. There is a noise ordinance at 11:00 P.M. So I just wanted to clarify
that for those of you who don't know-if a permit is issued by the police department,
that is when you shut down and that's when we have always shut down out there, if not
before, as in the case of the wedding and that was a half an hour before at 10:30.
MacCoy: Anyone else at this point? Do you see anybody else? Here comes Mr.
Grant.
GRANT KINGSFORD, 4304 W. WHITEASH, MERIDIAN.
Kingsford: With regard to-I didn't come in at the very beginning and I don't know
everything that has been said, but this has been a project that has been a pain in the
butt probably for everyone involved. For most the people surrounding the golf course,
and I can assure you it was a pain in the butt for myself. We have a situation here that
in 1977 when the first nine was built, the developer was going to build a clubhouse and
he was going to exercise his options, build the next nine all of which would be deeded to
the city. At that time, I had just got elected to the council, I didn't start to serve till that
January, this was in November. The economy went up side down, and that developer
bless his heart went back to Seattle, which I could think of a few places that I would've
rather he gone. But any event, the project was never able to be built, the clubhouse
and those sorts of fhings because we didn't own the land where it needed to go. Mr.
Borup is exactly correct, it had always been planned and designed to be where it is
going to go now. We didn't have those other nine holes and the area that the clubhouse
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IVleridian Planning and Zoning Commission
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will occupy, those things didn't take place until 1997 and 1998. Really the Lovans nor
the City of Meridian had an accurate legal descripfion as to where it went until this year.
So to have that project go forward, while everybody has been frustrated, I think the
Lovans have been as frustrated as anyone. Certainly, of the things that I tried to do
while I was at this city, I'll have to admit this was the most frustrating. It was a situation
where the city owned a piece of land, we had a developer with the original nine that had
some control over that, th~ Aires to Lewvitt-NuPacific, you had a pair of old farmers
that owned some land, you had developers that then optioned those pieces of land,
some of those options had switched hands during that time. I'll tell you, if you could
have a legal and real estate nightmare, there is one there, but I don't think you can hoist
that off to the Lovans. I think probably if there were errors made, maybe the city made
them. When we annexed that property, the design was to be annexed for a golf course,
that whole section of land was designed, prior to my occupation with the city, while I
was teaching school here but hadn't moved into town, it was designed and annexed to
be a golf course, an 18 hole golf course. The owners of the property that is now being
developed as the back nine both came to me and said the development, the economy is
up side down, let us build some other things, let us have a nursing home, let us have a
hospital, let us have a racquet and swim club and I said let us have what you annexed
fhe property for, a golf course. So we stuck to our guns and finally some twenty plus
years later, we have an 18 hole golf course. Hopefully, we can have a clubhouse that
people can check in and have a sandwich, on rare occasion maybe have a beverage
after they played. Certainly an issue, let's not be pointing fingers at who is to blarne,
probably I would like to point fingers at attorney's, I always like to pick on them. Surely,
don't like him and I don't even know him. I used to sit up here and really bash him. I've
gotten out of that habit. I think what we have is a situation where we have new legal
counsel in the city and the reason that the lawyers do so well is there is so many of
them. We used to have one in town, boy I tell you he could barely live and they got finro
and they did a little better and now my God, they are doing real well. I think the issue is
now we have a different legal counsel and they are saying the zone is not right. It was
right as early-as recently as a year ago, but we have a different attorney. So things
have changed, so don't be pointing fingers at each other, IeYs get the damn thing zoned
and built. Thank you very kindly for your indulgence.
MacCoy: Is there anyone else who would like to add to this?
De Weerd: Was Mr. Kingsford for or against?
MacCoy: We are trying to get this thing finished correctly, go ahead.
Lovan: I would like to get this thing consummated too. IYs been one of the most
frustrating things I've ever had happen to me. To stand up here and listen to people,
some are for it, some are against it. (Inaudible) That is not the issue, the issue is that
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Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission
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this thing has sat under being fhere in 1975. That's when it first started, it was a dream
of a couple of farmers there. I became involved in this thing in (End of Tape)
Lovan: I finally took over this golf course and I was going to operate it because
nobody else wanted to do it. The city had no money, the one percent thing went on the
ballot, there was no money anywhere. I did not want the thing to go by the waste side.
Every good city must have a good golf course. I've done my best to make it a good golf
course. I think I have done a pretty good job. We are right now, in the later years of
getting this thing finished. We need a little push right now. The place where I'm at right
now, Mr. Steiner, he wants to develop it. He's wanting us off of there. In order to make
it work for him and for me, I would like to move that mobile home for another four
months or so. At that point in time, I will have built a club house of about 8,000 square
feet and this was never in my lease agreement. I'm doing this now for my town. You
better believe it, this is my town. I went to school here, I sent my kids to school here, I
have my granddaughter going to school now and it is all of our towns. There is nobody
here who has worked as hard for so many years tried to do something and make our
town better. So all I need now is just a little help to get us through this little period here.
Mr. Steiner who owns the property that our clubhouse is on now, he would like to
develop it. So all I'm asking for is the club house, temporary clubhouse that I have right
now. I agree with everybody, it is getting tattered now. It was never supposed to have
been used as long as it has, but I've been moving as fast as I possibly could to have it
completed. It will be completed by the end of this year if I have cooperation. That's it.
MacCoy: Thank you very much, any questions for him before he walks away. Anyone
else? I think we've pretty well exhausted the material. Staff do you have anything you
want to add at this time? Commissioners, what is the verdict? What do you want to
do?
De Weerd: Mr. Chairman, I guess I would like to ask staff a question. Shari, during the
testimony I believe the Tuckers brought up fhe suggestion to close off one exit and
perhaps add another curb cut on Talamore Boulevard, is that a possibility? I guess I
should be asking the developers as well.
Stiles: It would need to be addressed by Ada County Highway District, there is also the
issue of the landscape island that exists in that road or is planned to be in the road. It's
there? That would make that hard to do unless you removed part of it.
De Weerd: Have we received comments from ACHD? Perhaps Mr. Johnson can
answer that.
Johnson: Ada County Highway District required 24 foot paved entry on Talamore and
on Harbor Point each place, and iYs also for fire access for access for the fire truck to
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Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission
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come in (Inaudible). This was approved by Ada County Highway District about a month
ago.
MacCoy: Sounds reasonable because the code requires two entrances.
Borup: Mr. Johnson, it looks like the design is indicating that the entrance exit on
Talamore would be the major enfirance. It looks like it's designed that way and thaYs
the intention?
Johnson: That is the intention, that's the highest traffic count road, so that would be the
main entry.
Borup: Thank you.
MacCoy: Commissioner De Weerd did he answer your question?
De Weerd: Yes, thank you.
MacCoy: Okay, all right, the commissioners, do you want to continue the hearing or do
you want to close the hearing or what do you want to do?
Borup: Mr. Chairman, I move that we close this public hearing.
De Weerd: Second.
MacCoy: All in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: All ayes.
MacCoy: What's your motion?
Barbeiro: I have a question if I may. As I read here their request says conditional use
permit for a golf course clubhouse, parking lot and temporary clubhouse. If we approve
this, we are approving all three.
MacCoy: That's what you are doing yes. So how do you want to phrase it? You can
break it up, you've been given this as one item, but you can break it down.
Borup: I think there is one staff recommendation that seems to be well in line with what
most of the public testimony was and that is the time frame. Shari's suggestion on item
no. 12 that maximum time frame of six months on fhe temporary clubhouse. Most of
those who talked were talking even up to 12 months. The letters were saying, that we
read, that were 6-12 months. The six months seems to be in line with what the
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Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission
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applicant says would work for them. I think that would be an appropriate condition to
leave in there, to include in...
De Weerd: Do you want to finish reading that paragraph because the rest of that also
addresses some other comments.
Borup: IT says the maximum time frame of six months needs to be established for
allowing the temporary clubhouse, prior to moving the temporary clubhouse a letter of
credit or cash should be received by the City of Meridian as guarantee for completion of
permanent clubhouse and parking lot. The applicant did say that they had no problem
with any of the conditions and that was one of them, so I guess that was included. That
was one of the site specific. I think the only thing that needs to be worked out with staff
is the amount of the letter of credit or bond.
MacCoy: As long as you put that in your motion.
Borup: The motion will include all staff comments would handle that.
MacCoy: Let's make sure that come in there.
Barbeiro: Okay, my concern is that according to the owners representative, the building
and parking lot could be built in no less than five months. The permitting process based
upon their having a complete set of drawings available today would be finro months.
There is seven months. (Inaudible) itself, this could not be built from today, where it sits
today in six months.
Borup: I had the same concerns, in fact I wrote down a note that six months from the
time of issuance of building permit. Maybe we need to put a timeframe on that too on
when the permit is applied for. They have testified they are ready, they are needing the
approval before they can submit for the permit.
De Weerd: It's too bad that we didn't ask someone out there if they could give us an
idea of when that trailer needs to be moved. I was going to ask it, but didn't want to put
him on the spot. It would be nice to have that information.
MacCoy: When they are going to move the trailer? They can't move it anyplace
because there is no agreement to move it.
De Weerd: When that trailer needs to be off it's current spot.
MacCoy: Well, their eviction notice is already passed. IYs like off now. ThaYs one of
the things that has been concerning the Lovans because they are at a point of shutting
down the golf course.
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Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission
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De Weerd: Well, as I read it, it's six months after the approval of this CUP. It sounds
like they can do that. Shari, what kind of time frame is it to get a building permit?
Stiles: Commercial building permits I fhink are typically taking them about 4-6 weeks
from the time that they start the process.
De Weerd: And do they need a building permit before they put in a parking lot?
Stiles: They need to have an approved plan.
Borup: Approved by the building department?
Stiles: It goes through the public works department.
Borup: For the parking lot?
Stiles: But fhe use itself is not currently permitted.
Borup: I fhink what Tammy is wondering can the parking-construction of parking lot
can start prior to the issuance of the building permit on the buildin g?
Stifes: It could. I mean once it goes fihrough City Council. If council directs us to do
that.
Borup: 1"hen commissioners, is the question is when does the six months start? Isn't
that what you were leading to as a problem?
De Weerd: That would certainly be my question.
Barbeiro: Well, as I read it, it says six months and I'm reading it from the day that we
approve the conditional use permit. We've already established that there is no way they
can build this in six months.
Borup: Right.
Rossman: But you are not really approving the condifiional use permit. You are
recommending approval. What I think the staff recommendation is directed to is six
months from the approvaf of the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law by the City
Council.
Borup: I think Tom is wondering if that's...
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Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission
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Rossman: That may not be sufficient, that's up to you.
Borup: Well if you are talking six weeks for a building permit, now we are down to four
in a half months.
De Weerd: They said they could build it in four. So lets go, lets do it.
Borup: You know how some of fhose contractors are.
MacCoy: I know Keith. You have the best feel for that, where do you want to sit down
for timing?
Borup: I think six months from the issuance of the building permit gives plenty of
leeway there. Then maybe we need to say six or eight weeks from the approval to have
the building permit. Or just go eight months from the time of approval. That would be a
month and a half or so for approval of permit and six months to have the construction.
Barbeiro: In addressing the letter of credit or cash, do you want to continue with a
specific recommendation? We can do a performance bond, we could do a...
De Weerd: I would prefer to leave that up to staff.
Borup: Me too.
Barbeiro: Okay.
MacCoy: Okay, do you got a motion?
Rossman: Please include within any motion if there are any staff recommendations that
you don't want to-well, just what your direction is with regard to the staff
recommendations.
De Weerd: Such as omitting three and seven of site specific comments.
Rossman: ThaYs fine.
Borup: Oh, something else just hit me on how this...
De Weerd: Were those right Bruce?
Freckleton: Yes.
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Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission
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Borup: Staff recommendations were no more than six months for the temporary ~
clubhouse. The temporary clubhouse wasn't going to move in my understanding until
after the parking lot was built. Is that correct?
MacCoy: That was said, but he is going to have to move that.
Borup: He's not going to move it until there is parking at the new site. Was the
testimony that I heard.
MacCoy: That's what happens, if he's got a house out there, a temporary house, and
he can't park the car, he's stuck anyway.
Borup: Okay, so then I don't know that six months is a problem. That's after the trailer
is moved, you are talking six months. Isn't going to move until the parking lot is built.
MacCoy: Well that's what he said anyway. We've got a limbo state here that has been.
De Weerd: I'm hoping the powers that be are working it out back there.
(END OF TAPE)
Borup: Well I believe that was how I heard earlier, so I don't know that we needed to
change anything on staff comments other than what was already mentioned. We are
not talking about six months from now, we are talking about having the temporary
clubhouse foc, six months and that time doesn't start until it's moved. Isn't that correct?
We are not talking about giving-so the six months will start from the time that the
clubhouse is moved and how fast that happens is going to be up to...
MacCoy: It's a chain reaction.
Borup: Well no, but they've got some control there. So I don't think we have a concern.
De Weerd: Well it first has to clear tonight, let's just get this going.
Barbeiro: Yeah, what I see as a problem and I'd like to ask the staff this, as it stands,
we do not have permits or anyfhing operational available for them to build the parking
lot yet.
De Weerd: No.
Barbeiro: So we need a parking lot first and then they can move the temporary building
to it's site, we are still two months out before they can even have a parking lot going.
Borup: That's what they are going to have to work out with their landlord or sit down.
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Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission
May 11, 1999
Page 42 ~
MacCoy: We have no control over that.
Barbeiro: Now established a time frame, thank you.
De Weerd: Mr. Chairman, I move that we approve a conditional use permit for a golf
course clubhouse, parking lot and temporary clubhouse to omit comments site specific
comments 3 and 7 and to underline comments number 12.
Borup: Your motion was to recommend approval? Okay, second that.
MacCoy: Discussion?
Barbeiro: Point of clarification, there has been a discussion of the operations of the new
clubhouse that perhaps if I were to infer that it is operational during daylight operations
only during the time that active golfers would be on the course and returning off the
course. Do we have the right to establish the recommendafiion that the clubhouse be
operational during daylight hours or golfing hours.
MacCoy: I don't see where that comes into our jurisdiction.
De Weerd: Does Bruce have a comment?
Freckleton: Mr. Chairman, members of the commission, I just wanted to make one
small point of clarification on site specific item no. 3. The latecomer fees is the only
portion of that comment that we need to strike, the requirement for the...
De Weerd: Entering into an assessment agreement. Okay.
Freckleton: Still needs to be in there.
Borup: Actually we probably don't need to strike that, it says may be charged, it doesn't
say will be charged anyway.
De Weerd: Okay, well I would amend my motion to include site specific comment no. 3.
Borup: Second.
MacCoy: Any more discussion now?
De Weerd: No.
MacCoy: Okay, I'm going to cail for the vote. All in favor?
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Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission
May 11, 1999
Page 43
MOTION CARRIED: All ayes.
MacCoy: All right, thank you for coming this evening and putting your two bits in. It
makes it easier for us believe it or not. It's 9:00 let's take a break right now and
reconvene in 15 minutes.
(BREAK)
MacCoy: The commissioners and they've decided to go the distance tonight so we may
be here till along time, we request that you work with us and we can get this thing done
fast. Item 3 now, having completed item 15, it's a continued public hearing.
ITEM NO. 3: REQUEST FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A MULTI-BUILDING
COMMERCIAL OFFICE INCLUDING BANK FACILITY WITH DRIVE-THRU
(TREASURE VALLEY BUSINESS CENTER) BY CLARK DEVELOPMENT-
SOUTHWEST CORNER OF EAGLE RD & FAIRVIEW AVE:
Stiles: Mr. Chairman, commissioners, we did receive a revised plan, we got that late
Friday and was put in the packets and put in your boxes on Monday I believe. I have
not had time to review it. I feel like they are perfectly willing to meet all their
requirements, however, without having any time to review it, I don't feel comfortable
making comment on the adequacy of the existing plan. Apparently we still do not have
any utilities shown. Bruce has indicated that he does need to see that. The response
was that the utilities are existing, but we don't know where those are, they are all private
lines and I think as part of Bruce's review he does want to see that and I'm not sure
whether waiting till the building permit application is submitted is adequate. Other fhan
that, without having like I say the actual time to do a review of ordinance requirements, I
can't comment that I would recommend this to go forward tonight.
MacCoy: Bruce do you have anything? Is the applicant here, after all this? Come
forward and state your name.
BILL CLARK, 479 MAIN STREET.
Clark: Commissioners based on what Shari just told you, I wonder if you might want to
wait until she has had a chance and the rest of the staff to review the revised plans put
together. Just as a general comment I think that we have complied in these revised
plans with the concerns that were brought out in the initial staff report and with respect
to the utifities, these utilities are part of those that have already been approved and
installed for Treasure Valley Business Center who are simply hooking in to those and so
those have already been approved and reviewed and accepted by the highway district
and City of Meridian. I guess that's our view of it. It would be something that we would
expect to be dealt with at least for the portion to be developed onto our site to hook into