HomeMy WebLinkAbout2008 06-03Meridian Citv Council Meetinq June 3, 2008
A meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 7:00 p.m., Tuesday, June
3, 2008, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd, Charlie Rountree, Keith Bird, Joe Borton,
and David Zaremba, ~
Ofihers Present: Ted Baird, Jaycee Holman, Anna Canning, Kyle Radek, Bill Johnson,
Bob Stowe, Steve Siddoway, and Dean Willis.
Item 4: Roll-call Attendance:
Ro11 call.
X David Zaremba X Joe Borton
X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
De Weerd: Okay. I will go ahead and call tonight's meeting to order. We'd like to
welcome you here this evening on this raining evening. We thank you for braving the
wetness. It is Tuesday, June 3rd, for the record. It's 7:00 o'clock. We will start tonight's
meeting with roll call attendance.
Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance:
De Weerd: Item No. 2 is the Pledge of Allegiance. If you will all rise and join us in the
piedge.
(Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
Item 3: Community Invocation by Pastor Darrell Taylor with Cherry Lane
Christian Church:
De Weerd: Item No. 3 is our community invocation. Tonight we will be led by Pastor
Darrell Taylor. He's with Ten Mile Christian Church. I would invite you to join us in the
invocation or take this as an opportunity for a moment of reflection. Pastor.
Taylor: Let us pray. Gracious Heavenly Father, thank you for this country that we live
in, for fhe freedoms that we have. Father, ask that you will protect the great men and
women in uniform that are defending fhis freedom. We ask Lord that you will guide and
direct our nation's leaders and thank you, Lord, for the men and women here tonight
that have dedicated their time and effort to make this community a community we can
be proud of. Give the wisdom, Lord, to make the decisions necessary for a safe place
to raise our children and grandchildren. Father, I ask this in your name, amen.
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June 3, 2008
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De Weerd: Thank you, Pastor Taylor, and I appreciate you coming out on a rainy
evening to lead us.
Item 4: Adoption of the Agenda:
De Weerd: Okay. Item No. 4 is adoption of the agenda.
Bird: Madam Mayor'?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: On fhe agenda, Item F under the Consent is resolution number 08-611. Item No.
K on the Consent, we would like to pull 7-K on the regular agenda. And under -- on the
regular agenda under the Executive Session, we no longer need (1)(b), ifs just -- the
Executive Session will be under (1)(c) only. With fhat I move we approve the revised
agenda.
De Weerd: Mr. Bird?
Bird: Yes.
De Weerd: I guess I would like to keep (b) on there just -- just in case.
B'ird: Leave it on?
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Bird: I have no problem with that.
De Weerd: Okay.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor, second and discussion.
De Weerd: Okay.
Zaremba: Item 14 there is a proposed ordinance number that we could add.
Bird: 08-1368. Yes.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Zaremba: Second accepts that.
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June 3, 2008
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De Weerd: Okay. You have a mofiion and a second. All those in favor say aye. All
ayes. Mofion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 5: Consent Agenda:
A. Approve Minutes of May 20, 2008 Pre-Council Meeting:
B. Approve Minutes of May 20, 2008 City Council Regular Meeting:
C. Approve Minutes of May 27, 2008 City Council Regular Meeting:
D. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: SHP
08-003 Request for Short Plat approval to create 4 condominiums
in an existing 4-plex unit on 1 residential building lot on 0.15 acres
in an O-T zone for Noe Vallev Condominiums by James McLean
and Karen Swett - 121 East King Street:
E. Water Main Easement AQreement for Arch Rock Subdivision
by CTD Development, LLC:
F. Resolution No. : VAC 08-004 Request for
a Vacation of a portion of the public utility easements platted with
Verona Nos. 2 and 3 Subdivision for Verona Nos. 2 and 3 by
Primeland Development - Northeast Corner of West McMillan
Road and North Ten Mile Road:
G. Developrnent Agreement: AZ 07-020 Request for Annexation
and Zoning of 21..81 acres from RUT to R-15 zone for Ghalet
Marseilles by RC Meridian Partners, LLC - Northwest Corner of
East Ustick Road and North Locust Grove Road:
H. Chanqe Order No. 2 to Aqreement. for Professional Services
with Civil Survev Consultants, Inc. for $4900.00:
I. Standard Form of Aqreement with Star Construction, LLC for
Class A Reclaimed Wastewater Disinfection and Distribution
Improvements for $79,790.00:
J. Cross Access Easement Apreement for Emera_encv Services
with Ten Mile Christian Church:
De Weerd: Item 5 is the Consent Agenda.
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Jwne 3, 2008
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B'ird: Madam Mayor`?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: On the Consent Agenda, Item F is resolution number 08-611 and Item 6-K has
been moved -- would like to be moved to 7-K in the regular agenda and with that I move
we approve the revised Consent Agenda and for the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to
attest ail papers.
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. That was a motion and a second to move 5-K to seven and the rest
as stated. Discussion? Madam Clerk, will you, please, call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 6: Department Reports:
A. Finance Department:
1. Chanqe Order No. 2 with Hobson Fabricatinq
Corporation for a Not to Exceed Amount of $9,941.00:
2. Chanqe Order No. 2 with Simplex Grinnell for a Not to
Exceed Amount of $19,499.28:
De Weerd: Item 6 we have Department Reports. Under the finance department -- we
don't have anyone here. Our --
Holman: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Keith Bird will not be here this --
Keith Bird. Keith Watts, I'm sorry, will not be here this evening, because he's sick.
De Weerd: Yes. He did have the flu.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I have went over both these. These are -- these are not -- these are change
orders to the contract, but they are -- they are additional work that's been added, not --
not something that was left off the plans or anything like that. Ifs a different type. So, if
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June 3, 2008
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you would like, I would move that we approve change order with Hobson Fabricating,
not to exceed 9,941 dollars and for change order with Simplex Grinnell for not to exceed
amount of $19,499.28.
Rounfiree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second and we will look at how to better list
these on fhe agenda to reflect those kind of things. And I know that you do have a
chance to look at those before they are put on the agenda, so I appreciate your
comments. Okay. If there is no question, I would ask fhe clerk to, please, call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTfON CARRIED: ALL AYES.
B. Public Works Department:
1. Line Item Reallocation Request for Unexpected Costs
Associated with Wellness Rehab for $119,735:
De Weerd: Okay. Under Public Works Department. Kyle.
Radek: Madam Mayor, Council Members, I prepared a few slides, so that you could
see a picture of the project we are talking about, Well 14 rehabilitation. Well 14 has
been in service for 15 years without any rehabilitation. Originally, the scope of the
construction of the rehab was what you see in front of you there, a pretty small laundry
list for 25,000 dollars. And I'm going to take you into the well right here, 334 feet down
into the well casing and you can see it should be nice and smooth and shiny around the
edges and it's -- it's generally not. At 420 feet down you can see the steel casings
compromised and at 434 feet down you're looking at the connection between the casing
and the stainless steel screen in fihe well. And, there again, the casing is compromised.
What we, essentially, have is a hole in the ground, instead of a well. So, this is what
has become of the rehabilitation plan for fhat well and it is no longer a 25,000 dollar job,
it is a 106,000 dollar job that we bid out and I wasn't going to show that slide, but that
was for when fhe right question was asked. But, essentially, the job has gotten much
more complex and it's, essentially -- if we want to have a well again it's stuff that has to
be done.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions for staff?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
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June 3, 2008
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Zaremba: Just a thought on fhe PVC casing -- and I may be way off on fhis, but there
are different kinds of PVC, as sometimes you don't want to drink water that goes
through PVC pipes, but fhere are ofiher kinds that are inert or something like that.
Radek: Most of our -- I should say virtually all of the water pipe we install is Class C900
water pipe for our -- for our water firansmission lines and this would be the same type of
PVC.
Zaremba: Okay.
Radek: It's a little different shape, because it's a well casing, I think it's a little thicker
and it fits together a little differently, but I don't know that there is any difference
between the PVC and this well casing and fihe PVC that we use in our transmission
lines.
Zaremba: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Bird.
Bird: You're asking for a line item of 119,735, but you're telling us it only costs 106.
What is the other 13,735 going for?
Radek: Councilman Bird, that's what this next slide was for. There are other projects
that are going along at the same time as -- that was just the construction project and
along with construction you have design of the well rehab, design of the pumping plant
rehab, design of the pumping plant piping and the list kind of goes on with a well project.
So, there is extra costs in virtually all of those things.
Bird: I understand that.
De Weerd: Thank you. You were not going to stump him tonight. Any other questions?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Two quick questions. With the reconstruction cost and the other effort costs,
what was the original 25 allocated for on Well 14?
Radek: Essentially -- Councilmember Borton, Madam Mayor, essentially, the first rehab
effort was just to pretty much clean fihe well, scrub out the casing and the screens and
in rehab we are putting in a new pump plan if it was required. But iYs something that is
pretty commonly done in wells and you will have encrustafiions in the wells after a few
years and they won't pump as well. So, essentially, the first project was pretty much
clean it out and get it going again and after half of that money or a little more than half
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June 3, 2008
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that money was spent, we cleaned it out and found that we had a clean broken well,
so --
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Borton: So, is there any component of that 25 that's still remaining that can be allocated
to some of these new costs?
Radek: There actually is about 11,500 dollars of that original 25,000, but, then, like I
said, we have fhose other -- those other projects that are, you know, all gafhered into
this same Well 14 effort and we didn't want to come back for another line item allocation
request, so we put a little cushion in there as well, so --
Borton: Okay. Thanks.
De Weerd: You put a little cushion in there.
Radek: Because of the nature of this project, we added up the money we have
allocated now or we have obligation for this and, then, I think we added 5,000 dollars to
it, Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: Okay. Council?
Rountree: For contingencies.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Borton.
Borton: And I-- can I-- I don't mean to peck and I don't doubt fihe need to do the -- the
full reaonstruction that you're describing, but if it's, you know, 106 to do the
reconstruction and, then, as Councilman Bird pointed out, there is an extra 13 to try and
accomplish some of these and, then, fihere is also 11 other thousand that was
previously budgeted, but not spent, my gut reaction would be to allocate 119, less the
11,000 savings, I guess you have maintained. I wouldn't necessarily want to budget this
full .amount if there is sfill 11,000 budgeted. See what I mean? Unless I'm missing the
math, it looks like you got fihe extra 13 to accomplish these goals, but there is still
11,000 in addition to this still remaining.
Radek: Councilmember Borton, Madam Mayor -- and we did account for that extra
11,000 that hadn't been spent as well when we looked at all these other things we have
going on. So, I don't believe fhere is going to be 11,000 on the table when we are done.
Borton: It's spent to accomplish some of fhis stuff?
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Radek: That's correct, sir.
Borton: Okay.
De Weerd: Five thousand is not accounted for. That's the buffer.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions? Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Hopefully a final question, but when we are done we will have a functioning
well; correct?
Radek: That is correct, sir.
Rountree: That's the outcome we want.
De Weerd: The bottom line.
- Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree_.
Rountree: I would move that we approve fhe line item reallocation of 119,735 dollars for
the rehabilitation of Well No. 14.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to approve. And, Kyle, if we could, at
the end of this project, bring back to Council just as an FYI, a final accounting.
Radek: Yes, ma'am.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Any discussion on this mofion? Okay. Roll call, please.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
C. Fire Department:
1. Budqet Amendment for Reimbursement from Southern
California Wild Fires:
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June 3, 2008
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De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Next item is our fire department. I see Chief Johnson
there.
Johnson: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the reason for our budget
amendment request is we finally received our reimbursement for the southern California
wild fires, which we sent a crew down to and an engine back in October, November of
2007. The check that we received was for 94,252 dollars and under our operating
expenditures the way we'd like to put that back into our budget is 71,601 dollars into our
overtime budget, which we expended covering the cost for those guys while they were
down there in California and the other 22,651 dollars into our vehicle maintenance fund,
which was, basically, the rental of the fiire truck while it was down fhere and Chief
Anderson felt that was an appropriate place to put it as one of our aging fire trucks has
required a lot more maintenance on it than we had budgeted for and that would help
offset some of our overages there.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions on this budget amendment?
Rountree: I have none.
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Do I have a motion?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor'?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I move we approve the budget amendment for the reimbursement from the
southern California wild fires in the amount 94,252.
Bird.: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to approve the request. If there is no
discussion, Madam Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
D. Parks Department:
1. Parks 8~ Recreation Commission Meetinq Time Change
Ordinance:
De Weerd: Okay. Item D. Mr. Siddoway.
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Siddoway: Thank you, Madam Mayor. For more than six months now the Parks and
Recreation Commission has been holding special meetings for their subcommittees
beginning at 6:00 p.m. and their regular meeting started at 7:00 p.m. What you have
before you is an ordinance that would amend Title 2, Chapter 2 of Meridian City Code
fhat formally changes our start times from 7:00 p.m. to 6:00 p.m., so that we will, in
effect, no longer have to notice a special meeting every month and fhe 6:00 p.m. start
time will just become our regular meeting time. And with that I would stand for any
quesfions.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any quesfions?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: .I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Zaremba?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor. I move we adopt the Parks and Recreation Commission
meeting fime change as an ordinance and does that mean that needs to come back to
us with an ordinance number? Oh, it already is an ordinance.
Baird: Madam Mayor?
Zaremba: It's a change to an existing ordinance.
Baird: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, fhis is just an opportunity for you to be
brought up to speed on the matter and give any input that you have. If it's your desire to
move forward, then, the direction would be to bring it back on the agenda as an
ordinance next week.
Zaremba: So moved.
Borton: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to bring this back in ordinance form
next week. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
E. Mayors Office:
1. Line Item Reallocation Request for Transfer of Funds for
1 500.00:
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June 3, 2008
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De Weerd: Okay. Item 6-E under the Mayor's office. This is a line item reallocation
request to transfer funds from the Mayor's office to fhe Arts Commission line. Is there
any questions from Council? If not, do I have a motion to approve the transfer`?
Rountree: Madam Mayor'?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we approve the line item reallocation of 1,500 dollars from the
Mayor's office to the Arts Commission.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second. Madam Clerk, will you, please, call
rolL
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 7: Items Moved from Consent Agenda:
K. New Beer and Wine License Application for Von Smith dba
Corkscrews Wine Shop and Pub at 729 North Main Street:
De Weerd:. Okay. Council, we did remove an item from Consent Agenda. It's Item --
what's listed on the regular agenda as Item 5-K. I will ask for staff comments. Mr.
Baird.
Baird: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this was put on at the last minute last
week at the request of the operator of a new establishment in downtown Meridian.
They were given until today to bring forth all the matters that would be required to get
that liquor permit. So, what I suggested that we do is see if anyone is in the audience
from Corkscrews who can tell us if you have met those requirements. If not, I'd suggest
that we vacate this matter from the agenda.
De Weerd: Okay. If you will, please, come forward. Thank you for joining us this
evening, If you will state your name and address for the record.
Smifh: My name is Marla Smith. I live at 347 South Moonstone Way, Meridian, Idaho.
De Weerd: Thank you. Mr. Baird, were there missing items?
Baird: Yes, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. A certificate of occupancy was
needed and, you know, quite frankly, I'm at a loss. I'm hoping that the presenter can tell
you-what was required and what she has.
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De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Smith: Okay. We have a certificate of occupancy. I don't -- we picked up a copy of it
yesterday.
De Weerd: Okay. So, you were issued the CO yesterday.
Smith: Uh-huh.
De Weerd: And were you required anyfhing else in order to get this permit?
Smith: I think we have a-- fhe fire department has signed off on a temporary license for
us. We have some ongoing things with the business -- with the building owners, but
they did authorize a temporary one, so I think fihat was the only other issue.
De Weerd: Okay. And do you have your county permit as well?
Smith: You should have a copy of that. I dropped it --
De Weerd: Okay. Well -- Mr. Baird?
Baird: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, it sounds like everything's in order. If all
those documents can be provided to the clerk's office and once they are verified, then,
we would be looking for a motion to -- from the Council to issue that permit.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you so much.
Smith: Thank you.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Bird.
Bird: I got one question. How do we give a temporary -- or a CO with a temporary fire
permit? Wo.uld fihe fire department like to explain that?
Johnson: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I will try to the best of my ability.
What the situation here is this business occupies a portion of the building and as such
there is some ongoing concerns with a monitoring of a fire alarm system is the number
one thing and so what I believe Deputy Chief Silva and Chief Anderson came up with
was to give them the time to get this in order with the building owner, as well as fhe
business owner. It does not have any forbearance, typically, on the fire protection of the
building, just the monitoring of the alarm system, as well as some local alarm stuff, as
gongs and notification, to the best of my knowledge on this. And it has been in the past
-- I know temporary occupancy permits have been given before, not necessarily in this
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June 3, 2008
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situation, but in others where there was some stuff that didn't have a major life safety
concern.
De Weerd: And this had never been required for this particular tenant space, so it --
they are giving them some time to remedy it.
Bird: What kind of time limit?
Johnson: I do believe it was either July 1 st or July 31 st. Don't know the exact one on
fhat for sure, Councilman Bird.
Bird: Okay.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Not sure to who ask the foilow-up question of, but if it's not completed by
then, their permit is invalid at that point?
Baird: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilmember Zaremba, are you
asking is the liquor permit invalid? We can't -- we can't condition the permit. Now is
your chance to eifher approve it or put it off until you can get this matter resolved.
Zaremba: The certificate of occupancy would be invalid.
Baird: That would be a question for Mr. Radek, I believe. Or possibly someone else at
the table. Wrong department.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of fhe Council, if the -- the certificate of occupancy,
if it's only signed as a temporary release from the fire department, then, they will just
receive a temporary occupancy from the building department is what should have
happened. So, they will reevaluate that at the time. If they are not able to meet those
conditions, conceivably you could pull the certificate of occupancy and because the
liquor license is tied to the space, it would, in effect, null the liquor -- or the beer and
wine license. But I think fhat fihere is other preventions in place, rather fhan -- than
having fhe condition or feel like you need to condition the beer and wine license.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor, I think that satisfies my question, which was is there a
hammer, and, apparently, there is.
De Weerd: There is a hammer.
Zaremba: Okay.
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June 3, 2008
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Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, there is also a conditional use on the
property, so there are other opportunifies, other hammers.
Zaremba: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, I have a request in front of you. Do I have a motion?
Bird: Madam Mayor`?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
B'ird: I move we approve the new beer and wine license for Vaughn Smith doing
business as Corkscrews Wine Shop and Pub at 729 North Main Street.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to approve 7-K. Madam Clerk, will
you, please, call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
De Weerd: Okay. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARR1'ED: ALL AYES.
Item 8: Request for an Appeal of Denial from the Citv Clerk for TNT
Fireworks:
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Item 8 is a request for an appeal of the denial from the
city clerk for TNT Fireworks. Madam Clerk, do you want to introduce this and, then, I'd
ask for Mr. White, who is appealing, to comment.
Holman: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Madam Mayor, Members of fihe Council, this is an
appeal from TNT Fireworks to add -- well, it's an appeal of a denial, but what they are
requesting is to add a sixth location to their existing application. Their existing
application was five locations throughout Meridian and at the fime of the April 15th cutoff
they were under the understanding that their lease had expired at this other location that
they want to have. It's up here at fhe Albertson's at the Cherry Plaza. After the -- soon
after the April 15th deadline I was contacted by Annie Premo from their headquarters
and she said they had realized fhat their lease had, in fact, not expired with Albertson's,
it was listed under a different name. So, she contacted me asking what she could do
and I said, technically, she could give me another application -- give an application for
that sixth location, I would have to deny it, because it's past the April 15th deadline
listed in fihe ordinance. She would, then, have to f.ile a letter to appeal the denial and,
then, bring it before the Mayor and the Council to make a decision on whether they
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June 3, 2008
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would accept that or not. She has all of -- TNT Fireworks has all of their paperwork in.
This is an amendment to that original application to add this other location. If you grant
the appeal of the denial, what we are looking for is some guidance as to how to handle
this in the future if this comes up again. Say, for instance, maybe next year it's
someone who has one application and, then, maybe it's a month before and they want
to add f.ive other locations. TNT Fireworks has been excellent to deal with. She's
communicated everything with me on time. This is just a hiccup, I think, that happened
and they realized it fairly soon after the deadline. So, we are looking for guidance. And
I believe -- his name is -- Wade White is here, he's the local rep for TNT and he would
like to come up and talk to you about the appeal.
De Weerd: Thank you. Mr. White.
White: Madam Mayor --
De Weerd: Hi.
White: How are you doing?
De Weerd: If you will state your name and address for the record.
White: My name is Wade White, 1545 Loggers Creek Lane, Boise, Idaho.
De Weerd: Thank you.
White: If I would -- I wish you would reconsider for -- I'm representing not only TNT, but
also the Bodensteiners, which run the stand. They ran it last year and did an excellent
job. And, of course, they use this as a source of income. They are retired folks. And
they'd really appreciate it. They tried to be here tonight, but she just had knee surgery,
so I suggested she stay home and I'd represent fhem, so --
De Weerd: That's good advice.
White: Yeah.
De Weerd: Council, do you have any questions regarding this request?
Bird: I don't.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
Rountree: Madam Maypr, I just would like to affirm that -- the guidance fhat the
planning administrator gave to us in terms of this -- correct?
White: Yes.
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Rountree: And you agree with them?
White: Yes.
Rountree: Thank you.
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I just was curious -- how many years has this same operation been in the
same location? You said at least one. Has it been longer?
White: Yeah. They were there last year and --
Zaremba: Okay. I thought it had been longer than that.
White: I think they ha've run that one, but they have run ofher ones for us before, so --
and they use it as a source of income to them and their family, so --
Zaremba: Thank you.
De Weerd: This is just a part of the process, since staff can only adhere to the policies
as -- as created by Council. Council has the authority to approve appeals. So, it's just
part of the process.
White: I understand.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any further information needed on this item?
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I need some information as to what fhe meaning of the item
is. It says it's a request from appeal. Or is this, actually, an appeal of --
De Weerd: To appeal. It's a request to appeal the denial; is that correct?
Rountree: That isn't what my agenda says.
Bird: No.
Holman: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilman Rountree, yes, it's in a--
they are appealing the denial. I may not have made that wording very clear, but it is an
appeal of a denial.
Rountree: Okay.
De Weerd: Okay. Anything else from Council?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
Meridian Ciry Council
June 3, 2008
Page 17 of 56•
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I would just express a personal opinion, I appreciate the way the clerk has
handled this. I believe that was properly liandled. Personally, 1'm inclined to say all is
well and we should approve the appeal of the denial, meaning that we should overturn
the denial. I can understand the circumstances behind it. The second part of it is I
would not want that to establish a precedent. It would be followed in the future by other
applicants. So, I would separate those two thoughts of whether or not this is
appropriate in this case. I probably would say that if anyfhing like this or similar
happened again, it would, again, be an individual decision of fhe Council. Personal
opinion.
De Weerd: And that is the intent of the process.
Zaremba: Okay. So --
De Weerd: So, anything further? Any further comments?
White: No, ma'am.
De Weerd: Council?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I would move that we grant the appeal of the denial, by which I mean that it
would be a11 right for them to operate the sixth loeation, as applied for, and, again,
reiterate that this is not to establish any kind of a precedent.
Borton: Second for discussion.
De Weerd: Okay. Discussion.
Borton: Maybe it's being hyper technical, but would the motion maker amend it to -- to
grant the appeal, but allow fhe clerk's office to accept the application, not necessarily
rendering a decision that it's accepted and they can operate, merely allowing the clerk
to accept it and process it. It might be a fine detail, but I think that's what's being asked.
Zaremba: Yes. That's fine.
Borton: Okay.
Meridian City Council
June 3, 2008
Page 18 of 56
De Weerd: Okay. So, the motion is to accept the -- to approve the appeal of the denial
to the accept, the applicafion from TNT for the sixth station. Well, I think fhat's what you
said.
Rountree: Sounds good to me.
De Weerd: If it was confusing --
Zaremba: He snowed me, but I just agreed wifh him whatever he said. I think we are
all going the same direction.
Borton: The clerk can accept it. The clerk can accept it.
De Weerd. Okay. The clerk can accept it. Okay. Any discussion from Council?
Rountree: I have none.
De Weerd: Any clarification on that motion? If not, Madam Glerk, will you, please, call
roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 9: MFP 08-003 Request for Final Plat Modificafion (FP 08-005) from the
approved Site Specific Condition Number 5, page 2, to delete the last
sentence and read: All fencing installed on the site must be in compliance
with UDC 11-3A-6 and 11-3A-7. Temporary construcfion fencing to
contain debris shall be installed at the subdivision boundary where
permanent fencing does not exist or construction debris shall be regularly
removed in accordance with an approved trash management agreement
for Paramount Subdivision No. 16 by Paramount Development, Inc. -
west of North Meridian Road and north of West McMillan Road:
De Weerd: Okay. Request granted. Okay. Item 9 is MFP 08-003. The applicant has
provided -- staff comments or --
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the staff is recommending that we
accept the applicant's request. So, they did provide a letter saying that they received
fhe staff report and appreciated staff s recommendation.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions for staff?
Bird: I have none.
Meridian City Council
June 3, 2008
Page 19 of 56
Rountree: No.
De Weerd: Okay. Do I have a motion?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Go ahead. I'm way ahead of myself here.
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor, I move that we approve MFP 08-003, which is a request for a
modifieation of FP 08-005, as stated in Item 9.
De Weerd: Do I have a second?
Borton: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have motion and a second. Any discussion? Hearing none,
Madam Clerk, will you call roll.
Ro11-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRfED: ALL AYES.
Item 10: Continued Public Hearing from May 27, 2008: ZOA 08-001 Request for
a Zoning Ordinance / Unified Development Code (UDC) Text Amendment
to modify, clean up and add specific sections to the UDC (see application
for details of all secfions proposed for amendments) for Unified
Development Code Text Amendment #4 by the City of Meridian
Planning Department: ~
De Weerd; Okay. Item 10 is a continued Public Hearing on ZOA 08-001. We will ask
for staff comments.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I presented this to you last week and
there was a few comments, so I'd like to go through those and, then, answer any other
questions you may have. There was some testimony -- written testimony provided by
Mr. Jim Jewett with regard to the TN-C district. We have .gone through and
inaorporated the spirit of those comments. We took exact language and made sure it
can fit in with the code as we saw most appropriate. We did forward those to Mr.
Jewett. I don't see him in the audience tonight and we have not heard from him, so I'm
Meridian City Council
June 3, 2008
Page 20 of 56
assuming that he is agreeable to those modifications we made. And I did want to just
go on the record -- my only concern with these modifications is that we will likely need to
modify them again shortly to incorporate the design guidelines. So, I just wanted to -- I
really don't have any concern with them right now, but we may come back in another
couple of months and suggest other modifications. With regard to politicai signs, there
was a section in there that pulled out political signs in residential districts to remove any
time and date restrictions on those political signs. There has been concern expressed
about the proliferation of signs, so what we did, instead of the previous method, we
went baak fihrough and took out any content references in the temporary signs in
residential districts and because there is no discrimination as to the content, then, the
time and place restrictions can remain, because it applies to all signs in residential
districts. If you really want more informafion on that, I can provide it, but that's the short
answer.
De Weerd: Okay.
Canning: Then, there was -- Councilmember Rountree expressed some concern about
landscaping in industrial districts. I did go through and look at the code today and have
one short new addition to the alternative compliance landscaping standards that we
aould add with regard to fhat. As I testified last week, I have been doing this as an
alternative compliance. I'm more comfortable doing it that way than doing a relaxed
standard for all industrial properties, because it's difficult to accommodate those
changes and uses where it goes -- where it adjoins residential or commercial or streets.
So, t felt more comfortable just making it clear in the alternative compliance section that
you could ask for alternative compliance with regard to the truck maneuvering areas
and the use of chain link for fencing within industrial districts for screening, chain link
with slats for screening within industrial districts. So, I did add fhat one. And, then, the
final thing was you asked fhat I go back and add gated communities or gates for private
streets. There were some recent changes done by ACHD with regard to a minor street
section that would replace our current private streets, so that, coupled with the gate
question, I felt would be better served doing a separate ordinance amendment for that
and I will follow up on that, but I felt the scope of it was a little too broad for the nofiicing
that we have done so far and that it really should be noticed and perhaps even
remanded back to the Planning and Zoning Commission. So, I felt it was better just to
move forward and come back through and follow up with the a private street
amendment. So, there may be additional items Council wanted to talk about. It was
late last week. We didn't discuss much, so, please, let me know if there is anything else
and I can address that, I can bring up fhe staff report that has the list of the full changes,
if you so desire. There was also -- we received written testimony from Gary Inselman
with Ada County Highway District with regard to the access to streets provision in
support of that.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. You have heard staff comments. Any questions from
Council?
Rountree: I have none.
Meridian City Council
June 3, 2008
Page 21 of 56
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Borton.
Borton: Anna, I had a quesfion on the landscaping in industrial districts part, the 11-5B-
56-3. And when I looked at the list of potential uses, first thought was that -- to just -- to
pull from that amending provision the last sentence, the part where it says are within an
industrial district and/or. So, you can -- so, fhe thought would be you can utilize that
chain link with slating when it's near adjoining properties that are industrial uses, not
merely are within an industrial disfirict, because some of those uses in the district aren't
really industrial. So, just throw that out for --
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, any -- the current code provisions
generaily require buffers to industrial uses, rather than industrial zoning districts,
aatually. We went through and looked at that. That being fhat there are some industrial
or -- usually it's just the opposite, it's non-industrial uses. So, really, any use in an
industrial district would be an industrial use. There are some industrial uses that aren't
in industrial districts, either because they are in the county or they are mis-zoned or they
are kind of a-- have nonconforming zoning currently. So, we did look -- we did think
about just using uses. We did think about just using districts. We can do either.
Because it was alternative compliance, I wasn't too concerned about putting both,
because it's still a judgment call as to whether or not I feel it's appropriate, rather than a
standard. And this was one of the reasons I didn't want it to be a strict standard,
because it does require a lot of just common sense and good judgment in applying it.
Borton: Okay. Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Borton: With that understanding that it's, you know, directed towards alternative
compliance, I see some obvious uses within a zone which you probably would clearly
pick out aren't appropriate to utilize that type of screening.
Canning: Yes.
Borton: So, as long as it gives you the flexibility to deny it where it's not appropriate.
That was my only question. Thanks.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further questions for staff?
B'ird: I have none.
Rountree: Not right now.
Meridian City Council
June 3, 2008
Page 22 of 56
De Weerd: Is there any public testimony on this application? Yes, sir. Sir, even. If you
will, please, state your name and address for the record.
Morrow: Walt Morrow. 2340 West Franklin Road, Meridian.
De Weerd: Okay. You want to pull the microphone close -- closer.
Morrow: Is that close enough?
De Weerd: Yes. Thank you.
Morrow: Okay. Thank you. I have some questions or some comments with reflect to --
and Anna and I have talked about this -- five foot landscaping requirements on interior
lot iines within an industrial district. The issue there is that they don't make any sense
from the standpoint of maintaining them when you have them back to back on each side
of the property line, you have inter-growth amongst trees, it denies both properties the
use of that. We have problems maintaining them from the standpoint of tractor-trailers,
delivery trucks, those types of things, breaking the curbs, running over trees, breaking
trees -- it is an expense, needless to say, that you don't recapture in terms of having the
industrial user maximizing fhe potential of fhe lot, which is -- is the job there. So, I don't
have any problem with landscaping along street lines. I do think those landscapes in
industrial areas ought to be ten to fifteen feet and not necessarily more like 50 feet
adjacent to a freeway. Certainly if that were the case when Western Equipment and
Cesco and all those folks were there -- built their projects along the freeway, then, may
preclude those folks from even being in there within fhe community. So, in the quest of
trying to bring jobs and industry to the area and we compete with other areas, it seems
to me that we have to understand fhat the maximum use of the dirt thaYs there creates
the income and the aapabilifiy of the companies to be there and the maintenance long
term of the interior lot lines, landscaping, is problematic. Alternative landscaping is --
can be arbitrary. It seems to me that it's just another step that we don't need to do, but
we have no landscaping ~required in terms of the interior lot lines and we have company
backing to -- company backing and have fhe fencing in befinreen. There is probably no
better example of the things that I'm talking about than in Railside Subdivision, which is
at Pine and Locust Grove, as you drive through there, iYs now about a five or six years
old subdivision, you can begin to see the overgrowth of back-to-back landscaping. You
can see the difficulties that companies have with screening fences and chain link fences
that aren't screening and maintenance and the fact that you lose the use of the dirt that
can be put to better use in terms of making those businesses more aggressive -- more
profitable and less maintenance. So, fhat's how I-- thaYs how Anna and I differ in terms
of the interior lot lines. Any questions?
De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor'?
Mecidian City Council
June 3, 2008
Page 23 of 56
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: He makes an extremely valid point, I believe, and I think others have made a
similar point way back in my memory firom times on the Planning and Zoning
Commission. I fhink I have heard the same sensible comment. Part of the reason for
the landscaping requirements are not just to make them pretty, but the landscaping
helps clean the air, helps cool areas, and I think fhe intent is not to have vast areas that
have no landscaping. So, I guess my question isn't really for you, it's for staff, Director
Canning, and that would be the solution to the problem here would be alternative
compliance, but since this has come up several times in my recollection for the same
reason in -- always in an industrial zone, might we just want to say that we could
eliminate it on the interior lot lines and make the requirement more stringent. along the
public road line -- if we figured out what the alternative compliance usually would be
and, then, change the ordinance to say you have to put all alternate compliance in front
of your building or something and, fihen, we didn't have to struggle with this every fime.
Is that workable or is that difficult?
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of fhe Council, we actually, don't have a
landscaping requirement on interior lot lines. Where the requirement kicks in is
because we have a requirement for a five foot landscape buffer adjoining an;y drive aisle
areas. So, any vehicle driving areas I think is how it's worded. So, where that ends up
happening is parking lots and, then, these truck maneuvering areas and the parking lots
I think Mr. Morrow and I perhaps agree to disagree that -- that -- I~ still think they are
necessary along just the parking lots, where they have provided vehicle parking spaces
for customers coming to the -- to the building, I think that those are still appropriate in
those locations. The other areas which can be a large portion of fhe site, are the
vehicle maneuvering areas and that's why I specifiically reference them in fihe language
I'm proposing, is because we do get -- it just doesn't make sense sometimes, I will
agree on that one, that there are instances where it's just asphalt for the purpose of
moving those trucks in and out. There is no customers going back there or it's just
maneuvering areas along with storage areas and the landscaping has little benefit to the
actual storage of materials within the property. So, that's why I called those out for
alternative compliance. But a lot of it depends on how that individual property is being
used in relationship to the adjoining properties as to what makes sense and, again,
that's why I would prefer that it stay within alternative compliance, rather than a more
lenient standard.
Zaremba: Thank you.
Morrow: If I might, Mr. Zaremba, I would also suggest to you that the vast majority of
these sites, in terms of fhe building lots, are acre to an acre and a half in size, with ten
to 15 to 20 thousand square foot buildings. And so in that generally you have organized
parking along the street frontage areas and ~the rest of the lot is primarily overhead
doors that you're backing into and out of delivering, plus driving around the building,
plus storage areas, so the interior lot lines in some cases maybe used for some
Meridian Ciry Council
June 3, 2008
Page 24 of 56
incidental parking, but the primary parking is along street frontages where we already
have landscaping available. So, it's a matter of these sites are fairly -- are small sites.
We are not talking about five acre sites, which, obviously, different standards should
apply, because of fhe sheer size of the them and I'm sensifiive to the argument about
cleaning up the air and so on and so forth, because you can do it by size there. But on
these particular subdivisions and sizes, there is just not a lot of room there and we are
spending part of it for this use. That doesn't make a lot of sense. If that helps.
Zaremba: Thank you.
De Weerd: Well, what it muddies is what development do we -- do we account public
parking on -- on the street in the allowance?
Canning: Madam Mayor, I think Mr. Morrow means that it -- it backs up to the public
street. That you have your street buffer and, then, you have your parking.
De Weerd: Okay.
Morrow: And, then, typically where ever you have your street buffer, you also have your
parking and, then, the other finro or three sides of the lot, either utilizing within the usage
of the building.
De Weerd: Okay.
Morrow: And that's the problematic area. I'm totally on board with the street.
De Weerd: Okay. Any questions for Mr. Morrow. Okay.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Borton.
Borton: It's not a question. I agree wholeheartedly with what you're saying and I
wouldn't put it up in the front, I wouldn't -- I wouldn't try and -- you know, if you take
away that requirement and pose somefhing.else somewhere else, just for the sake of
doing it, I would be inclined just to remove it, but, procedurally, I don't see -- and I'm
looking through everything on this topic, I don't see fhis particular issue as being one
that is up for the Public Hearing, which we could address through this process. It might
be one that we need to fix. But assuming we wanted to go that way -- I might, but if
everyone else did, can you do that for fhis process or does that need to be done
another time?
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilman Borton, I forgot to look
that up. Let me check. Hold on.
Borton: Kind of a long way to ask fhat question. I didn't see it.
Meridian City Council
June 3, 2008
Page 25 of 56
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Well, I was just going to make that comment. I don't believe it was included
in our original public notice. It was added because of my comment last week. I think
this paragraph that Anna has provided us tonight is -- is -- or could be an inferim until
we get to fhe issue and maybe make the modifications next go around. But for now I
think Anna attempted to do what she could on this item as this was advertised in
hearings presented last week. A question for Mr. Morrow. I think fhat -- had a lot of
schooling here, visited a lot of sites. It is an issue. I think it's somefhing that we need to
get on the agenda and talk about. But for Mr. Morrow, I think on an interim basis that at
least having something written about truck maneuvering areas and chain link is a step
forward and, hopefully, makes fihe process a little less arbitrary and I think Anna used
the words common sense and I always go back to that comment that whose common
sense are we using. And if it's Anna's, okay. If, however, Anna, has to give that
common sense to each and every staff member as applications come through, fhen, I
think we ought to get this on the agenda, get it taken care of. So, I'm just asking you for
an interim as an approach that -- you can wait and --
Morrow: That's fine, as long as you continue to get to the point, because to something
-- because we are rapidly running out of industrial or light industrial ground within the
city. We need that in terms of a job base. The city's goal, in my opinion, needs to be to
try to create cities in Treasure Valley that are job neutral, so we don't have quite as
much commuter -- commuter traffic, those kinds of things. There is lots of positives
about continuing to pursue industrial development and as long as the standards make
for usable lots, then, we will attain that. I would have no problem with the interim steps,
as well as we progress towards fhe ultimate goal.
De Weerd: Well, even ifi you did we couldn't do it right now.
Rountree: I fihink that's what Anna is going to tell us.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, actually, you can. We did -- part of
the original was to modify the alternafive compliance section. So, that is a section that
we noticed for changes. So, you can make those changes. I would suggest that it
would be appropriate at this time and as Mr. Morrow develops some properties, IeYs see
if it helps us in moving toward that. If it achieves those goals, again, I think that -- I
really think that it's going to be too difficult to write a standard to replace common sense
in this instance. So, for the interim I would like to suggest that we just go wifh this for a
long interim until we can figure out if it's working.
De Weerd: Well -- and I think you could define it as the -- it's the director's call and,
then, that answers your quesfion, Mr. Rountree, on whose common sense. It's the one
that's answerable to you.
Bird: Madam Mayor'?
Meridian City Council
June 3, 2008
Page 26 of 56
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I just soon have a law written that's clear and to the point than to have alternative
concepts every fime we have something come down the tube. Because we have very
few to do idenfical applications and if it's a law written in there, fhen, that's the way it
goes and the people don't have to worry about what fihe alternative concept's going to
be all out. They know what is allowed and what isn't allowed by that. So, I would
sooner see us get hard facts and set the law in place than -- and have no judgment left
for it myself. I think you got to also look at the land -- the setbacks. Very much so.
Industrial is different that retail. And we are losing industrial ground in Meridian. We
are losing industrial business that is going to the west of us. So, we need to get after it.
Borton: Madam Mayor? Oh.
De Weerd: I don't think that's always a result of not lack of I-L or landscaping. It might
have something to do wifh ownership, so -- Mr. Borton.
Borton: Madam Mayor, I don't -- I don't have issues with any of the other amendments,
but if -- and I can't find, Anna, the -- and maybe this is the language you're putting up
here, which -- which fits and allows the option to try and make this change to this
process. I know this process takes some time and if this is fixable, I'd just as soon table
it a week to get language on this particular issue that addresses at least what
Councilman Bird's talking about, if there is a way to have some more concrete
guidance, again, on this one issue. Bring that forward. All the other changes I'm fine
with. If that means we table it a week, I'd rather do that than require a separate UDC
text amendment application to come forward and all the time and hassle with that and
delay, so --
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I-- I don't believe that -- well, the text
I was showing before was a portion of fhe alternative compliance secfion. So, that was
something we had notified. I'm not sure that we made changes to the landscaping
provisions that would need to be changed to make this a permanent -- and that's what
I'm trying to look up now. I just wanted to make sure that if we delay it a week to make
permanent changes, it may require re-noticing anyway. But we can do that if you'd like.
I-- again, I'm very nervous about a permanent change to not require any landscaping
adjoining truck maneuvering areas without some -- you know, that they could take up
right to the property line of an already developed property. There may be trees on the
adjoining property that need to be protected.
Borton: Madam Mayor`?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Anna, you -- if we went that route you might be right. I mean I guess it also
invites the opportunity for you to put together the list of why that idea is just dead wrong.
Meridian City Council
June 3, 2008
Page 27 of 56
My reaction right now is it's the right thing to do. I could be wrong. But I guess that
allows us to craft language and understand that issue a little more. I just -- it's just an
idea. I might be by myself on this.
De Weerd: Well, certainly, Council, it's your cail. I think Anna has a point where there
is some -- if you rush this through it can't be well fihought through and if Mr. Morrow was
okay to move forward with what has been suggested so far, he can be part of the new
language and look at it as a complete picture where we can anticipate unintended
consequences from action that might be done hasfily. So, it certainly is discussion and
your decision. And I won't ask for it right now, because this is a Public Hearing and
there may be someone else who wants to testify. Mr. Morrow, anything else? .
Morrow: No, thank you, ma'am.
De Weerd: I think you have caused enough trouble. Is there any other public testimony
on this applicafion? I did have one other signed up. Mr. Forrest -- okay. Thank you,
sir. Okay. Seeing no other public comment, Council, what is your direction?
Zaremba; Madam Mayor'?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I would just chime in with what I think has been said. Other parts of fhis are
coming together and developing into their supposedly final form, but I could agree with
continuing this for a week to get some of the language on this subject, if that's what
other people are saying.
Rountree: Next week is a workshop. Madam Mayor, if we do -- continue fhis, we would
have to do it I fhink until at least the 17th. I'm not sure that we would have time on the
10th during the workshop to address this.
De Weerd: Huh-uh.
Bird: No.
De Weerd: Perhaps we should ask Council or staff if they have time to bring it back,
then, by fhe 17th. On just that one issue. At least a recommendation and your -- your
best advice on if you can deat with it under the current parameters of the changes as
fhey are or if it does need to come back in a different format.
Canning: Certainly, ma'am.
De Weerd: Okay.
Canning: I could probably provide that within five minutes time by looking at -- at the
code briefly. If the Council's desire is by the 17th to have new language, I guess I'm still
Meridian City Council
June 3, 2008
Page 28 of 56
a little unclear on who all I need to consult -- am I working with Mr. Morrow? Am I
working with -- there is -- there are finro industrial owners that talk to us regularly, Mr.
Morrow is one and Mr. Van Auker's representative is the other, so I--
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I'll chime in. It might help that I would suggest that you work ~
with your liaison.
Bird: Be glad to.
De Weerd: And I'm sure the industrial users that you know of, they would be good to
consult. ,
Bird: That's right.
Canning: And have spoken to Mr. Morrow in the past. He's drug me on many a site
visit at this point. And I did call Mr. Miller today to talk to him about the issues as well.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I did want to clarify to make sure fhat my remarks were not misconstrued to
say that changing the language was the only option. I certainly understand the reason
for fhe request and it sounds like a reasonable request, but I'm also open to staff
providing a defense of what's already there.
Canning: And between the --
Zaremba: I didn't mean to say the thing I wanted to hear was new language.
Canning: No. And, Madam Mayor, Members of fhe Council, there was actually a
difference of opinion between the finro individuals I spoke to wifih regard to the -- the five
foot landscape buffer, so --
Rountree: I can't imagine that.
Zaremba: Imagine that.
De Weerd: Okay. So, I-- it looks like fhe 17th will be an interesting discussion to
continue this on. Just that one subject.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I would move that we continue Item 10 until our regularly
scheduled meeting June 17th, to address specifically Item 11-56-56-3.
Bird: Second.
Meridian City Council
June 3, 2008
Page 29 of 56
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to continue this until June 17th. All
those in favor say aye. All ayes. Mofion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 11: Continued Public Hearing from May 20, 2008: VAR 08-004 Request for
a Variance to UDC 11-3H-4B.2.a, which prohibits new approaches directly
accessing a state highway to allow a temporary access to SH 55/Eagle
Road for Great Wall Restaurant by Kinsan Chan - 2590 North Eagle
Road:
De Weerd: Okay. Item 11 is also a continued Public Hearing on VAR 08-004. I will ask
for sta .ff comments at this time.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, you may recall I gave the full
presentafiion on this Public Hearing item and, then, the applicant requested tabling it
after my presentation. So, I will not go through fhe full presentation, unless you would
like to rehear it.
De Weerd: Council, you did get a briefing at one time. Is there -- would you like to have
it refreshed?
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I just want confirmation that though there was anticipated
change, nothing's changed.
Canning: Correct, sir.
Rountree: Okay.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you, Anna. Is the applicant here this evening? Thank you. If
you will state your name and address for the record.
Fairchild: My name is Mike Fairchild, I'm the architect representing Mr. Kin Sun Chan.
My address is 1518 Mulligan Street in Middleton, Idaho.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Fairchild: Madam Mayor and Members of the Council, we have been working on this
site for quite some time, anficipating that we would get access to this site through the
property to the east, Boyd Homes or something like fihat.
De Weerd: Bach Homes.
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June 3, 2008
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Fairchild: Yeah. Bach Homes. . And -- but it looks like that's been delayed many times
and it's been delayed again. They have removed fheir temporary access request. And
also -- and it's getting down to where he really needs to get to going on this site. It's just
wasted time for him. He's got a site he can't use. We have got -- we have got all the
different applications and all fhe different processes done to get this site going, except
for we have no access to it to get going. And the site plan that we see -- you can see
towards the east we definitely have plans for the future, as soon as there is access to
the north and to the south on a frontage road that we would definitely be removing the
temporary access and going to those accesses to the south and to the north. So, this
definitely would be a temporary access until those others could be used. What I
understand is that property -- fhis piece of property alone was annexed into the city at
the same time as the properties to the north over the slough. Yeah. See that red line
and you can see my -- our property fhat's outlined there. They were annexed at the
same time. As what I understand it, those -- that annexafion became a part of the city
before the ordinance to limit access to the Eagle Road was adopted. So, because of
the hardships that it puts on my client and the fact that it was annexed in before the
adoption of fhe ordinance, we would -- we would definitely ask that we could use that
temporary access. It's going to take quite awhile just to build the building, so we won't
have public going in and out of that very much until probably six months, almost a year
before we get it actually finished up. So, wifh that we'd ask that you would grant us a
variance to fhat ordinance to be available to use a temporary access unfil the others are
available.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none, Mayor.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: On April 18th you were directed by the Idaho Transportation Department or
given guidance that you needed to apply for an access permit. Have you done that and
have you received an access permit?
Fairchild: No, we have not, sir. We have not -- no, we have not applied for it.
Rountree: Okay.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions firom Council? Okay. Thank you.
Fairchild: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. This is a Public Hearing. Is there any member from the public who
would like to testify on fhis application? Okay. Seeing none, Council, any further
questions for staff or fhe applicant?
Mecidian Ciry Council
June 3, 2008
Page 31 of 56
Bird: I have none, Mayor.
Canning: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Canning: Members of the Council, I forgot to note that you did receive additional
testimony from Mr. Joe Silva with regard to access -- how that should be configured, if
Council chooses to grant the variance.
De Weerd: Okay. Anna, I guess I have a question. And I-- it relates to -- this parcel
was part of Red Feather?
Canning: Yes, ma'am.
De Weerd: And I don't recall the application itself. What was the plan at that time for
access? Was it to access through the existing development or --
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the access and fhe future
development of the other Red Feather commercial property were not an item of
discussion during any of the hearings. There was no concept plan. There was very
litfle thought given to them, other than they all required conditional use approval prior to
any development. So, upon granting the variance, Mr. Chan I believe was his name,
will need to obtain conditional use approval as well.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Borton; Madam Mayor'?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Can I ask a question of the applicant again. Anna reminded me about the fire
departmenf's comments that -- I presume you have seen those concerning the request
fhat if a variance is granted that it be limited to a right-in, right-out only?
Fairchild: I haven't seen that report from the transportation department.
Borton: So, if the -- Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Borton: If the request was that should an access be granted it would be limited to right-
in, right-out And the access to be 24 feet wide to accommodate finro-way traffic, with an
inside turning radius of 28 feet and an outside turning radius of 48 feet. With those
recommendations from the fire department are you acceptable to that?
Meridian Ciry Council
June 3, 2008
Page 32 of 56
Fairchild: Yes, we would accept those.
Borton: Okay.
Fairchild: And I believe we already have a condifional use. I think we have already
went through that, haven't we? We have been so long at this project I forget a lot of it.
Borton: Understand. Okay.
Fairchild: Thank you.
Borton: Thank you.
De Weerd: Sir, I guess I-- I don't know if I have a question, more a statement.
Oftentimes when these parcels come in we usually don't approve them without a plat
and this is one of the reasons why. And it came under a time when we were evaluating
the access management along this corridor, because the accesses start to be so many
you start creating a hazard and one of the things that this Council takes very serious is
their public safety that -- public safety of their jobs. Even granting a temporary access
or a variance to provide or allow for a temporary access, it does create a public hazard
and even though you say that there won't be a number of trips, because it won't be
open for business, there will be construction traffic, which sometimes is slower than car
traffic and entering and existing Eagle Road is a hazard and I think our safety personnel
can -- can verify how much time and resources we put out on fhat -- that transportation
corridor, because of some of the hazards that exist today and that is why this Council
found it fit to limit the access to the half mile or even in some cases at the quarter mile,
because it does present a hazard to the traveling public, both entering and existing
properties, but also to the through traffic in that -- in that transportation corridor. So,
there is reasons why new ordinances are created after properties are zoned and they,
then, are subject to the new ordinances. And maybe what wasn't in existence then,
they are now for -- for specific reasons and I do understand your client's position, but
you need to understand our position, too, in that they have to look for the public safety
aspect and for the good of all, not just one property owner. So, they don't want to
necessarily create those public hazards. And so those are the things they need to
balance. So, I appreciate the situation. You're representing your client, but I just want
you to see the other side of fhat, too. And appreciate your time. Council, any
comments or questions? And anything further from the applicant? Okay. Thank you,
sir. Okay. Council, what would you like to do?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I would move that we close fhe Public Hearing on Item 11, VAR 08-004.
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June 3, 2008
Page 33 of 56
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the Public Hearing on Item 11. All
those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRI'ED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Okay. Discussion? If fhere is no discussion, do I have a mofion?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Vtleerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I will throw out a motion. I would move that we approve Item 11, VAR 08-004,
consistent with fhe comments of the fire department in their specific request that it be
limited to right-in, right-out only and to the extent it can be included in a mofion, that by
right-in, right-out we don't mean the little two foot by four foot triangle that, actually,
doesn't prevent left turn movements. Hopefully, it would be designed to be a true no
kidd'ing right-in, right-out to completely prohibit any of those left turns. And to be
compliant with the measurements as directed by the fire department and as the
applicant has testified he is in agreement to. And that single.access be temporary until
the first available public access to the north, soufh, or east, I guess.
De Weerd: Okay.. I have a motion to approve the request on Item 11. Do I have a
second?
Bird: I'll second it for discussion.
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Bird seconds. Do I have discussion?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor'?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: If -- for a second fihere you skipped by a view that I don't remember seeing.
It's either before this one or after this one. Yes. May I just study that for a second,
please. Okay. Thank you. Madam Mayor, I guess my question is what sort of a tickler
or how do we administer knowing when that temporary needs to be removed? Is that
something we have a system for?
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, generally it is difficult to have the
temporary access points go away. In this case we do have a conditional use where we
may be able to put in some triggers within the conditional use. For example, you could
set it -- or the Planning Commission, as they consider it, could consider a two year
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June 3, 2008
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renewal or a fwo year evaluation schedule or something that would look to whether
there was access available and whefher that needed to be closed down and, then, the
landscaping installed to kind of complete that closure. So, that's one opportunity. The
Planning Commission can put time limits on their conditional uses.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Per Anna's comment and fihe testimony, fhere is no CUP at this point?
Canning: No, sir. I looked through all our applications. I don't see any record of them
filing fhe Conditional Use Permit yet. It -- they are -- I believe what Mr. Fairchild is
remembering is that they filed the conditional use application, but we needed to have
the variance approved. So, fhey decided to go forward with the variance first and see if
they gained the access and, then, they will go forward with the Conditional Use Permit.
But we haven't accepted it for processing yet.
Rountree: Thank you. If the maker of the motion, Madam Mayor, would add to his
motion that we would direct Flanning and Zoning to add the provision in the conditional
use, if approved, that upon fhe expiration of this temporary permit, which is conditioned
on acaess being obtained either north or south or bofih, that, then, they would remove
the temporary access and complete the landscape buffer required along Eagle Road.
And that failure to do so would prompt the initiafion of the revocation of the CUP.
Borton: Motion maker agrees.
Bird: Second agrees.
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Baird, I just want to verify that this is the -- the motion is within
the bounds -- within the limits of what we can put on a variance.
Baird: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, yes, you certainly can condition a
variance and if the CUP were not also out there, I would be more concerned, because
you don't have the hammer, you don't have a way to catch it, but the CUP approval, if
you include such a provision that revocation proceedings would be initiated, once the
alternative -- or the permanent access is available, I think you have got a way to catch
it. So, the way the motion is crafted does create a way to legally accomplish granting a
temporary access and revoking it at such time the permanent access is available.
De Weerd: Okay.
Canning: And, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the way I understood the
mofion is you're really not condifioning this variance, you're just directing the Planning
and Zoning Commission to add a condition to their consideration for the project.
Meridian City Council
June 3, 2008
Page 35 of 56
Rountree: Correct.
Canning: And I can let you know if they don't do that. I would imagine they would,
but --
De Weerd: If they don't do that I imagine our planning director would appeal it to this
body.
Canning: Yes, ma'am.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further discussion on this motion to approve the request for the
variance? Okay. Madam Clerk, will you, please, call ro11.
Roil-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, a final comment to the applicant that because we did vary
our ordinance, which relates to access on state highways, the state highway department
is the authority here and until you're issued a permit you still don't have access.
De Weerd: And staff can make it clear on our recommendation, it is for temporary until
that permanent can be made, because of fihe situation of fhis parcel being landlocked.
Canning: We will do that, ma'am. And we have talked to ITD staff. They seemed
inclined to follow the city's recommendation for final decision on this matter, so --
Item 12: Public Hearing: AP 08-002 Request for City Council Review for an
Appeal of the Planning and Zoning Commission's denial of Sonic
Southern Springs (CUP 08-002) for Sonic Southern Sprinqs by Boise
Food Service - 1870 Soufh Meridian Road:
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Thank you. .Okay. Item 12 is a Public Hearing on AP
08-002. I will ask -- open this Public Hearing and ask for staff comments.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is fhe Sonic Soufhern Springs
project. That's the tongue twister for the night. It's located on Lot 11, Block 1, of
Southern Springs Subdivision No. 2, which is near the southeast corner of Meridian
Road and Overland Road. The application before you tonight is a City Council review,
also known,as an appeal, of Planning and Zoning Commission's denial of a Conditional
Use Permit for drive-thru establishment within 300 feet of another drive-thru
establishment and concurrent design review for a structure located adjacent to an
entryway corridor. The applicant is proposing to construct a fast food restaurant, Sonic,
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June 3, 2008
Page 36 of 56
with a drive-thru window on the site. The building is 1,526 square feet and I do have
elevations. This is the landscape plan. These are the elevations that were considered
at the Planning and Zoning Commission. I have another set that the applicant has
provided for tonight's hearing. The main difference is on this elevation. You will notice
here that they have this kind of an arched roof shelter over the menu board, where in
the new elevations they have aftached it to the building wall and incorporated it more
into the design of the structure. And, then, these were the -- again, this goes back to
the P&Z hearing, but this was the only rendering we had where it's a little easier to see
the building. This is the view that would face Meridian Road. This is for the applicant's
use regarding shared parking and I will get into that diseussion. The Commission acted
on this application and moved to deny it at their April 3rd Public Hearing. Joe
Thompson, the applicant's representative, spoke in favor, as did to Skip Hoffenberg,
Lawrence Ross, and Dave Roberts. In opposition were Darrell and Linda Thomlinson,
Mary Jane Bennett, Rawley and Myrna Bunch, Gary Phillips, and Barry Jardine.
Commenting, there was no one. Written testimony Blaine and Mary Jane Bennett
provided written testimony in opposition. Key issues of discussion by the Commission
were the site plan and elevations for the site. The hours of operation for the drive-thru
establishment. Other alternatives ,for redesigning the site in line with the city's design
review guidelines. Previous approvals for projects within the Southern Spring
Development, color rendering of fhe rear of the building referenced in Exhibit A. These
renderings. Nofice and posting of the site. Employee parking on the site and possibility
of shared parking with the development north of the subject site. And that was that brief
site plan I showed you. Key Commission changes to staff's initial recommendation, the
Planning and Zoning Commission denied the project because of orientation of the
building facing Meridian Road was not in compliance with the design review guidelines
and the site provided inadequate employee parking. Written testimony since the
Planning Commission hearing, the applicant has submitted a shared parking -- it's not
really an agreement, but a letter discussing shared parking with the properties to the
north and revised elevations fhat I showed you just a moment ago. And those were
submitted with the appeal application. Outstanding issues before City Council -- I just
wanted to remind you -- we don't do too many of these, usually it's not as a Planning
Commission decision, it's usually my decision, but this is a de novo hearing for the City
Council, so if you choose to overrule the Planning and Zoning Commission, you will
need to direct staff to go back and prepare findings and reference any applicable
conditions that you may want in that -- those findings. The staff report is included as
part of your packet. The conditions were just done for -- the Planning Department
conditions were just struck out. The other conditions are still noted there, but they --
you can view those conditions f.rom the previous staff report. And with that i will answer
any questions Council may have.
De Weerd: Council, do you have any questions at this point?
Rountree: I have none right now.
De Weerd: Okay. Applicant.
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June 3, 2008
Page 37 of 56
Strite: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Billy Ray Strite. 1010 Allante, Boise,
Idaho. Long time no see.
De Weerd: Yeah.
Strite: I'm going to start fhis out -- it's a little more unusual. We e-mailed a colored
elevation to Bill, which I think would be more representafiive. If I might, I will present this
to the -- it's the only one I have, because that colored elevation is -- and I believe -- the
fact is I have the e-mail that we had sent to Bill wifih that revised elevation. But having
said that, I think the -- what I'd like to first start with is it's -- I'm here along with Skip
Hoffenberg, who is representing Sonic -- oh, I'm sorry. No. I was looking for the
colored elevation that she could put up on the wall.
De Weerd: And they will.
Strite: Oh. Okay. If she can do that, fine. Thank you. Madam Mayor, I'm here along
wifh Skip Hoffenberg from Sonic. I'm here also with Lawrence Ross, the master
developer of Southern Springs. And Dave Roberts and myself. And we are here in
support of fhis application and, hopefully, we can get your consideration in reversing the
P&Z Commission's denial of 4/3. I think if's evident to me -- I was not here at the
hearing, but it's evident that there were two germane issues in fheir mind. One being
the lack of adequate parking in fheir mind and the second had to do with the building
elevation -- conjecture on the building elevation and that was based upon site
orientation. I think it's probably best if I start with the -- the parking, because it's pretty
definite. I think it's easy explainable. First of all, as you know, by ordinance the Sonic
as originally proposed was greatly over-parked by virtue of the ordinance. However, I
think that the neighborhood, as well as the Planning and Zoning Commission, had some
very important comments. I think they lay credence to the fact that perhaps we should
investigate potential long-term parking arrangements. The applicant did so, went to the
developer, and has received an additional six spaces that brings the total number of
spaces to this site to 27. Those new spaces are immediately adjacent on the north
parcel -- bordering the north boundary of the Sonic site itself. You should have in your
packet not only a-- this agreement for shared parking, but also a shared parking site
plan, which was requested by Mr. Hood that delineates the parking count on the existing
units to the north, as well as that to the Sonic. I think in our mind the bigger issue is a
concern for the building orientation and the esthetics. Obviously, it's evident from
testimony, it's evident from the planning staff and fihe Planning Commission, that this
site is ideal for this use. I don't fhink anybody questions that. The problem that we have
here is this particular site -- and I might also add that the master plan did, in fact -- was
approved with two drive-thru restaurants. So, I don't think it's a case of whether this use
is -- is -- is appropriate here, I think from the staff comments it's really why is it oriented
the way it is. That site that the Sonic sits on has approximately 39,000 square feet.
Fifteen thousand square feet plus is made up of the drive access, drainage ditch,
drainage easements, utility easements, and setbacks. That's 44 percent of the site. I
would suggest to you that anything that goes on this site, specially a drive-thru
restaurant, is going to have a strange configuration. The Sonic, as I'm sure you're all
Meridian City Council
June 3, 2008
Page 38 of 56
familiar with, has a one way traffic pattern. We find it to be the safest, the most efficient
traffic pattern. This results in placing what we refer to as a street side elevation to the
west. This has benefits in that, number one, it puts the outdoor patio area away from
the noise from Meridian Road. It also puts the speaker systems as far west as possible
and as far as you can get them away from the residential neighborhoods, which are
approximately 200 feet to the east of this site. And although we find that the -- all the
units south of this, there is three additional buildings south of the Sonic, all of which
have their non-entry elevations facing the roadway. We believe,that our solution with
the -- with the new wing walls that we have put up there actually does a greater job in --
in buffering the utilities and the minutia that you normally find on a building of this type
and we believe that this elevation in itself, in shape, color -- I think that there is no
question that it mimics the entry elevation and in our opinion should be considered
appropriate. I would hope that -- t~hat you would take that into consideration, that there
were a couple of comments also made by the neighbors, which I think should be
mentioned here and that -- that had to do primarily -- again, I wasn't here, I'm reading
this solely from fhe minutes -- had to do with the traffic on Calderwood. Please be
advised fhat Calderwood is 700 feet or two city blocks south of the sight. So, I don't
fhink that this particular use is going to have any effect on that, but I do want to make
certain that I have addressed the comments made by the neighborhoods. Another
comment made was the noticing, which I believe the Planning and Zoning Commission
was -- was very well in deciding and I believe it was Mr. Baird who identified that this
site was, in fact, notified properly and that the signage was as required by ordinance.
Anofher issue that I think was brought up by the neighborhood, as is always the case I
think when you have a commercial development adjacent to a residential neighborhood,
is what is it going to do about noise? How is noise going to be affected? Well, as I
have already mentioned, we have moved the speaker system to the west side and, you
know, if you think about it, Meridian Road has probably an ambient road noise of 55 to
60 decibels, so in my mind I doubt that from there the 300 feei from Meridian Road to
the neighborhood will make much~ difference whether you're another hundred feet closer
with -- with the front of fhe Sonic building. So, I would hope fhat you could reconsider
and perhaps reverse the decision by the Planning and Zoning Commission and I would
be more than happy to stand for any questions and, hopefully, be allowed to come back
for rebuttal.
De Weerd: Okay. You are allowed the last word. Council, any questions at this time?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Borton: One quick question. Sir, your elevations don't do it justice. Clearly it's not a
cinder block building, is it?
Strite: Councilman Borton, no, sir. This -- that is -- it's Naticchia. It is a concrete panel,
a smooth concrete panel. The wing walls on the back are -- if approved, of course, are
going to be constructed of honed or polished concrete masonry blocks. The will mimic
Meridian City Council
June 3, 2008
Page 39 of 56
the trash enclosure, which is kind of a hard surface. I think iYs exciting. I think it's
exciting. I think it's colorful. And it's a hard surface, which I think kind of gives Sonic its
identify.
Borton: Okay.
De Weerd: So, yeah, kind of? I don't understand your question. It's not cinder block,
but it's concrete?
Strite: No. They are -- they are concrete panels. You're referring -- I'm sorry, Madam
Mayor. If you're referring to the wall panel system, it is a concrete -- modular concrete
panel system. They are 18 by 36 inch. They are an inch and a half wide. And fihey are
attached just like you would normally do a masonry building. I'm referring to the wing
walls that we placed on the west side that outline the colored arch there. Those
particular wing walls are built of honed masonry, which is a smooth faced block. Does
that make sense? Did I get it right fhat time?
De Weerd: You know, I'm just a rookie here and it kind of just sounds all fhe same to
me, so --
Strite: Well, I think the material pallet is very nice and I think, obviously, it's part of the
corporate image and in our mind certainly does meet the design review standards.
De Weerd: Okay. Okay. Any further questions from the Council?
Rountree: I have none at this point.
De Weerd: Okay.
Strite: Thank you.
De Weerd: I do have a number of people that are signed up on the sign-up sheet. If
you would like to provide testimony at the time I call your name, please, come forward
at that time. If not, I will read your in favor or opposition, which, from what I see, most of
it is opposition. Betty Mansky. And if I say your name wrong, I apologize in advance.
Betty Mansky sign up against. Okay. Lois Nidge and Darrell Nidge. Signed up against.
Okay. Sheryl Anderson signed up against. Thank you.
Anderson: I guess you need my name and address.
De Weerd: Yes, please.
Anderson: Sheryl Anderson. 2242 South Blackspur Way in Meridian.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Meridian City Council
June 3, 2008
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Anderson: Personally I find this whole concept a little inconsistent with the architecture
that's already there in that destination shopping strip. So, I don't see that that is
consistent with the types of businesses that are already there. The businesses that are
there are quiet, small businesses. Their hours of operation are early in the morning to
maybe, you know, 7:00 o'clock at night. There might be one or two that are a little later.
Sonic advertises that it's open unfil midnight. I think that's inconsistent with the rest of
fhe businesses in there and not partiaularly desirable to be in a neighborhood so close
to residents. There was an article in the newspaper about two weeks ago about a
gentleman -- a policeman, some kind of a law enforcer, up at the new veterans
cemetery who was telling kids fhat they couldn't ride their bicycles through the cemetery
across the graves and when he stopped them from doing that, they looked at him and
said, well, what's wrong with it? Why should he have to be telling kids what's wrong
with riding bicycles across graves? I see some opportunities for fihat kind of behavior in
this area. First, if you exit out the street -- and I can't remember the street's name that
runs parallel to Meridian-Kuna Road, to the east of that. If you exit out and you turn
south, you're there at Calderwood. At that intersection of Calderwood you're 50 feet
from a senior living center. Now, I-- and the workers -- not only would I be concerned
about interrupting their operations there, but their workers park along the entrance to
our subdivision, Larkspur, and, of course, they are leaving fhere late at night. I think
that adds to their safety issue in coming out the back of that building and into fheir
street, if there is more traffic for -- I hate to say this, but young kids who would be out
cruising -- and, believe it or not, I was young once~, but who might be cruising and
stopping at Sonic at midnight and, then, turning south and seeing opportunities with
those parked cars there or people leaving their business at that time of the night. I also
want to talk about the noise. From our subdivision we hear the noise from the
speedway. What we would be looking for something is that's as tall as the other
buildings and something that would deaden the noise off of Meridian-Kuna Road. The
ofher buildings that are there I quite like. They are tall. They are straight. They are
going to reflect the noise back. I'm not looking for something fhat is low enough and
would add noise from the traffic, even though the speakers might be well placed on the
other end, I don't see anything there to stopping the noise, that it's something -- some
ofher building that would be inconsistent -- that would be consistent with the others that
are built along there. And fhat's just it. I guess I'm against. it. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Pat Jennings signed up against. Thank you. Sam
Jennings signed up against. Thank you, sir. Barry Jardine signed up against.
Jardine: My name is Barry Jardine. Address 2565 West Ballagio Drive, Meridian.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Jardine: If you wouldn't mind if -- Madam Mayor, if we could go to the parking depiction
up there, please. I'll try to keep it brief.
Canning: Did you want this one, sir, or the one with all three properties?
Meridian City Council
June 3, 2008
Page 41 of 56
Jardine: Thank you. This one here I-- first off, I'm a dentist next door. I am adjacent to
this location. I do -- we do share shared access to our property and this proposed Sonic
property. One of my major concerns right now -- according to this depiction there are
only four employee parking spaces. All of the other ones to the north and the south are
covered parking spaces -- we have all been to Sonics, we know how their typical
covered parking is. And so according to fhis drawing there is only four employee
parking spaces. One of which, I would assume, would be handicapped and so that
would leave three. Also, they have talked about access with additional parking to the
north, which --.if we could go to that other parking, please. If you look at where the site
for the Sonic is, it's a one way entrance into this -- excuse me. The entrance is right
here.
De Weerd: Sir.
Bird: Grab this mike right here.
De Weerd: Yes.
Canning: Or, sir, there is probably a laser pointer at fhe podium, if you would like to use
that.
De Weerd: Whichever you're most comfortable with.
Jardine: This is a one-way access into this area here, so in order to get in here you
need to come in through this area and, then, park along here and, then, come back out
this direction there, which, to me, if I was going to Sonic, would be very inconvenient for
me to have to park in that location. Also, if -- should people want to park in this area
over here, this shared parking, fihey would need to walk here across this sidewalk and
the only way to access it by foot traffic is through here, directly through the drive-thru
traffic, through, basically, fhe one-way traffic of people exiting through these -- these
stalls where they receive their meals, and so my concern is the parking is -- you know,
as a neighbor I would prefer fhat people going to the Sonic do not use our parking lot
and fill our spaces for our patients. And also the safety issue wifih people. Here is the
outdoor eafing area. They show a sidewalk going to the street. There is no sidewalk
access along here and so I don't quite understand what this sidewalk access to the
street is here. Anofher concern of mine is the dumpster here is on the street side. Most
of the ofher businesses along the area, the dumpsters are to the back of the buildings.
The other buitdings that are down over here are also are to -- you know, not on the road
side and so, therefore, reasonings we are against it. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, sir. Jason Howell is signed up against.
Howell: Madam Mayor, my name is Jason Howell and I-- my address is 827 West Blue
Downs --
De Weerd: Thank you.
Meridian City Council
June 3, 2008
Page 42 of 56
Howell: -- Meridian, Idaho. I'm also against. I share the adjacent building to where this
proposed Sonic is going to go up, with Dr. Jardine. Not to add or go through what he --
what he talked about -- you know, I did just a little investigating myself of Sonic and
went around to some of the different Sonics on Saturdays and, you know, on Friday,
and just kind of see how each one of those worked and, you know, found to be quite
busy and, you know, I'm not against Sonic at all, I just think that the location itself is just
-- you know, it's just a traffic nightmare. They -- the other Sonics on Overland had 13
parking spots'for employees and for customers that weren't parking in to order direcfly
and there was only two people that were actually eating there and I-- you know, pretty
much all except two parking spots were filled. So, I'm assuming those four parking
spots would probably be filled, you know, at least -- and I would say there would
probably be anofher three or four employees that need to park somewhere else. You
know, a concern could be just the fact that 12:00 o'clock at night you're getting off the
shift and you got to -- you have to cross the road where you have oncoming traffic from
Meridian and just fhe hazard in itself of crossing that road and, you know, obviously, as
an adjacent business, which we don't mind -- we don't mind a business opening up next
to us, we just think that as far as the planning and the traffic flow could be a lot better.
IYs just -- we have one access and the main access is right to the right of the main
building there and both our businesses firom 2:00 to 5:00 o'clock are very busy. I
assume Sonic's probably fairly busy during that time, probably even busy a little bit later
on. But, you know, as far as we are concerned, it's -- we know that as far as the
parking, that not everybody's going to park -- you know, just in your own mind an
average person, unless you're an employee, you're not going to park across the street,
you're going to park on the other side. You're going to park to fhe adjacent business
where accessibility is there. So, therefore, I'm against it.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Howe11: Thank you.
De Weerd: Biaine Bennett signed up against.
Bennett: My name is Blaine Bennett. I live on 343 Calderwood Drive. Madam Mayor
and Council Members, I'm not going to do a lot of rehash about what's already been
said, but I'd just like to voice our concern about the noise, the traffic, and the trash that
usually accompanies a fast food facility. We have already seen some of that with the --
when they opened that up -- that whole development up and traffic is -- in the morning
when you try to back out to go to work, oftentimes it's really hard to get out because of
the traffic coming fihrough. And I think this is only going to add to it. I think that the lady
that first spoke really covered all of our concerns, but I just wanted to publicly say that
we are really against that development.
De Weerd: Thank you, sir. Okay. Mary Jane Bennett also signed up against. Okay.
Gary Phillips signed up against.
Meridian City Council
June 3, 2008
Page 43 of 56
Phillips: My name is Gary Phillips. I live at 332 East Calderwood Drive.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Phillips: I pretty much agree wifih everything -- I'm against the project myself. The one
thing I didn't find -- I didn't quite understand, when he was talking about the speaker
system, I assumed ifs a drive-in speaker which is on the Meridian side of the building or
the back part of the building, so fhat it's away from the -- fhe neighbors to the east. But
what I don't -- in these Sonics each of the -- the parking spots where they eat have
speakers of fheir own and I don't hear anything -- any concerns about those speakers.
Anyway, that's -- that's about all I have to say.
De Weerd: Thank you. Richard Jewell signed up against.
Jewell: My name is Richard Jewell, 1729 South Marshwood Place, Meridian, idaho.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Jewell: First of all, I appreciate the opportunity to come before the Council. We live in
the subdivision right east -- directly east of the development there and we -- our
property actually backs the development. What I'd like to do is I'd like to present some
photographs that I have taken of the facilities that are in the development at this time.
May I present them?
De Weerd: Yes. If you will turn it into Madam Clerk. Thank you.
Jewell: And I would like to refer to those pictures a litfle bit, if you don't mind. One of
our primary concerns is -- as what was mentioned before is the noise and from where
we lived there you can and do hear Roaring Springs all the time and they are way down
on Overland Road. And, then, also is what was mentioned, the Meridian Speedway.
So, even with the speakers on the left side -- or the west side there, the noise is still
going to carry from that and I don't have any concern with it earlier in the day, but night
hours are a real problem. The second item would be lighting and most of these pictures
are in reference to that. One of fihe issues is the yard lighting. Nothing has been
mentioned yet as far as the project of the Sonic's yard lighting that they propose to
have. I know that a lot of the lighting that is required is supposed to be not shining
upwards, but they are supposed to also have limitations on what they project out. From
my bedroom, sleeping in bed, I can look over and I can see those lights, the actual
lenses of the lights, not only in the yard lights, but also on the buildings, the security
lights and so forth. Some of these lights that are shining are -- most all of them along
the properties along there shine in through fihe people's bedroom and sitting in my
bedroom I can hold my hand up and actually cast a shadow from the lights that are
projected from this development. And with Sonic coming in there, it should -- only going
to add to it. If =- and regard to the pictures, if you -- picture number one is the Southern
Springs development sign. Pictures finro through five are pictures that was actually
taken from my back deck of my property and all the other properties along this -- the
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June 3, 2008
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back side fhere pretty much see the same things fhat I do. Pictures two to five are, as I
mentioned, the back deck. Picture two is the street light and car -- a headlight and,
again, that was visible from my back deck and I was not holding the camera in the air
when I shot fhat. That was at eye level. Item number -- or picture number three is
Clothes Line Cleaners with their lit canopy, which is an issue that will be coming before
the Council in coming months. And these back lights that I mentioned on picture
number four, those are just, basically, security lights, but they are very obnoxious and
they do cause very much of a problem.
De Weerd: Okay. Sir, if you can summarize your comments.
Jewell: We don't want the lights out that way. We are concerned about the signs. The
signs that are out fhere I believe are in the -- against code for the directions they face. I
don't know -- I didn't see the back of the sign on fhe Sonics, but it's all very much of a
concern and it's already a problem out there and I believe Sonics would just add to it.
Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, sir. Mr. Skip Hoffenberg.
Hoffenberg: I`m Skip Hoffenberg. P.O. Box 8986, Boise, Idaho. I am the Sonic
franchisee and we do already have one unit in Meridian and we went through the
Planning and Zoning and City Council with that and fhat store is located 2160 East
Fairview and we are less than a hundred feet from a community -- from the housing and
we made adjustments that they could live with as far as the noise level and Fairview
Avenue is somewhat like the Meridian Road where it's, you know, 55 decibels and they
don't hear us at all. I mean it's the road that -- where is the problem. So, you talk -- you
oan talk about speakers -- these speakers are less than two decibels and fihey do all
face Meridian Road, even though the ones the gentleman that talked about there at the
-- each of the stalls, they all face west. So, they are facing out. The other fhing is
behind it we are going to have another row of development behind us, which is
commercial offices or businesses like the dentist next to us, which I believe they are
probably closed at 5:00 o'clock or 6:00 o'clock, not open on weekends, and I know they
were talking about noise on Saturday, but, you know, if you're not there, you're not
there. We did get additional parking with the agreement with the developers. We are
over-parked at what we are. The one thing you have to keep in mind, we do run
somewhere between 62 and 68 percent of our business through the drive-thru. The
stalls we have people park in those stalls, use it, get out to go to the patio. We do have
employees that park in fhe stalls, because if you look at our very first store, is the
Overland store, which fihey talk about, there is 29 stalls and the extra 17 parks and this
one here I believe is 17 stalls. So, it's just not needed. The parking and all the extra is
not needed, because we do utilize the stalls for the patio, our employees. We now have
a rule for safety for our employees that they need to park on fhe lot after 8:00 o'clock.
So, when fhat much of your business is through the drive-thru, a third of it is in the
stalls, we are down to where 17 stalls, as opposed to the Overland store, which is 29
stalls. So, parking is adequate for this site. I know they talk about the lights. We have
another unit that's on Usfick 'Road. We are 52 feet from the back of a house to the back
Meridian City Cowncil
June 3, 2008
Page 45 of 56
of our building. We put up a retaining wall for them. We try to be neighbor friendly as
much as possible, with requirements. We moved our speakers. The lighting, which
somebody talked about, we used low, slim line fixtures up underneath the canopies and
the canopy has this, so the light does shine down this way, doesn't go out like he talks
like some of the other buildings that are high. And the canopies are only -- up
underneath the canopy is nine foot. So, the lighting is not an issue when it's shining
down and, like I say, you're going to have anofiher development behind us that is offices
and/or retail fhat will, you know, close early. As far as hours, yeah, Sonic does
advertise that we are open unfil midnight, some are open until 2:00, some of the
corporate stores are 24 hours through the drive-thru. I know our Meridian store can't be
open past 11:00 p.m. We made the deal with the city for that, for the people. Neighbor-
friendly. Because we are close to the residential areas and we realize fhat. We want --
we try to be a good neighbor. So, we kept our hours. We'd like to see midnight here,
but if 11:00 we could live with 11:00. We open at 6:00 a.m. and close at 11:00 at the
Meridian store and that was at the request of the neighbors and we do it, but, you know,
like I say, we try to be neighbor friendly and fit in with everybody. I know there is some
comments --
De Weerd: Sir, can you --
Hoffenberg: Pardon me?
De Weerd: I'm sorry. Can you summarize your comments?
Hoffenberg: You bet. One other comment about how the building is different than the
other architecture. I don't think there was any requirements that was met that had to be
all the buildings the same in there, so -- but with that, I appreciate it, Madam Mayor and
Council Members, for the consideration and we'd like to be at this location. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions? Okay. Mr. Forsgren, who has signed
up against.
Forsgren: Hi. My name is Harvey Forsgren. I live at 431 East Calderwood Drive.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Forsgren: Commonly known as the second Meridian Speedway. It's being used as a
speed cut through. The traffic there is horrendous. I think you heard Mr. Bennett say
that he sometimes has a hard time getting out of his driveway and -- with total disregard
of any traffic signs or stop signs or anything like that. We do have a lot of children in
this subdivision. It seems to make no never mind to the people cutting through. And to
sum this up a little bit, I think that the traffic, as far as I'm concerned, is the big concern
and a fast food restaurant there would just exacerbate the problem. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, sir. Lawrence Ross signed up for.
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June 3, 2008
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Ross: My name is Lawrence Ross. I am at 1684 East Braemere in Boise.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Ross: Madam Mayor, Members of fhe Council. Myself and my partner are basically the
original developers on this project and what we have done is assembled three different
parcels and tried to kind of work with a development that kind of ties in, you know --
access on a state highway, with two ofher access and, basically, do a-- more of a new
urbanism type development, which is the direction that the city has tried to go, which is
one of the issues fhey have with getting a Sonic figured out as far as layout. I'd like to
address -- address maybe three or four quick issues just to kind of confirm, number one,
that -- that we also have the shopping center fihat's adjacent to it that we developed.
We are over-parked. We are about seven parks per thousand. I think city code
requires four or five per thousand on a retail building, So, we have got plenty of surplus
parking. And we have -- we have offered them the use of six spaces if they need it to
eliminate what I'm told won't be a parking issue, but that's available to them if they need
it, so -- and maybe I-- maybe I can address also some of the -- we have tried to work
with the neighbors fhrough this whole approval process. We have put in, you know,
through fhe -- through the development process we have put in a greenbelt, we put in a
fence, we have tried to buffer them as much as we possibly can. But, ultimately, this
property has been zoned commercial for 20 or 30 years. Probably even prior to the
existence of those subdivisions. It was zoned commercial when we started through the
approval process and we did actually rezone I think two pieces of which this is not part
of. But firied to work with them as much as we possibly -- as possibly could to eliminate
the concerns of a commercial development, which inevitably. is going to be there. And
I'm still more than willing to work with them as far as lighting goes, as far as, you know,
any complaints they have as far as what's happening there. It sounds like to date they
have been fairly pleased with it, but this type of use was inevitable and was shown on
our master development plan as far as having two drive-thru restaurants about the
same size as Sonic, with the same type of use. Additionally, I think a lot of these issues
they are having right now with traffic and lights will be minimized when we get the
second row of commercial built in there, because what you`re going to see there is
you're going to see property -- you're going to see buildings that back up to them, where
they are looking more at fhe back of the buildings where the parking and accessibility is
going to be in the front. And I hope that will -- that will help to buffer any issues they
have with the commercial, more so than the open spaces .there befinreen the first row of
commercial and where their residences are located. Finally, I guess the other issue I'd
like to address is just -- as far as the design of all the buildings, we have no design
criteria, other than that it's a professional-looking building. We don't want all the
buildings to look the same, have the same quality of -- you know, this color rock and
everything. We'd like to have a-- you know, more of a general, you know, mixed -- nice
buildings, but everybody have their own architectural building to do what they'd like to
do, as long as it's professional and that's been how we have reviewed the properties
that we have approved through our design criteria ourselves, so -- I appreciate your
time. Thank you.
Meridian City Council
June 3, 2008
Page 47 of 56
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. This is a Public Hearing. Is there any additional public
testimony on this application? Council, would you consider a second testimony?
Rountree: Sure. I would.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor, I believe his tesfimony was much shorter than three minutes.
De Weerd: It sure was.
Zaremba: I don't believe he used his entire time. I'm willing to have him complete it.
De Weerd: We like those short and sweet. Yes, sir. You would need to come forward.
Don't talk on your way up. We need it all on the record. If you will just restate your
name. You don't need to tell us your address.
Forsgren: Harvey Forsgren.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Forsgren: And I live in Meridian. And what I really wanted to say is the real problem is
-- and I think that if we have a Sonic there and they have good hamburgers, but they
also have a heck of a lot of traffic and the problem is the intersection of Meridian Road
and Overland, when things start to back up, guess where they go, they go on our street
on Calderwood Drive. So, I just fhink that fhat additional traffic would just make it
worse_ Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, sir. Okay. Any further testimony? Thank you. Okay. Yes,
ma'am. If you will, please, state your name and address.
Jennings: I'm Pat Jennings and I live at 2210 South Blackspur Way and do like Sonic,
don't get me wrong, because I do, but as the gentleman said, I leave home at 6:30 in
the morning and I go out Calderwood to Meridian Road to get on the freeway. I work in
rural Canyon County. And he's right, people do go through Calderwood to get around
Overland to avoid going up to the stop sign to turn. But the other thing that happens is
right where the people are going to be coming out of the Sonic, that goes into fhree
lanes for a right turn and so people are trying to turn, they are going to come out of
fhere and they either are going to come to Calderwood and try to make a left, if they are
going towards Kuna, or they are going to turn right and, then, what's going to happen is
you just got this mess of people trying to go and they already use the suicide lane to
merge, rather than, you know, doing it right. So, turning left back onto Calderwood to
go home at 5:00 o'clock is very difficult. So, that's the main time that this traffic is going
to be happening. I can just see a lot of accidents happening there. That's all. And I
know that that's an Ada County issue, but, you know, before you were talking about the
Eagle Road issue about controlling traffic. Well, we are having the same issues here
and kids, you know, are the main uses and we also have a trash issue already blowing
into the -- into that field that's south on Calderwood up next to Meridian Road and we
Meridian City Council
June 3, 2008
Page 48 of 56
can see more trash going in there, because what do you do when you leave, you throw
your trash out the window, rather than putting it in fhe container. So, those are issues
that we have as -- as neighbors in here. So, that's all I have to say. Thank you. ~
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. If there is no furfher tesfiimony, I would ask the
applicant's representative for concluding remarks.
Strite: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Billy Ray Strite once again. I think it's hard to -- hard
to discuss traffic with a neighborhood like this and I certainly understand fheir position. I
think that most people would be -- that is not to think that fast food restaurants generally
capture traffic. I think fhat that's fihe whole nature of the beast. I don't think that they
are a destination use. The traffic is fhere. It's going to be there whatever goes on this
site. And I certainly can understand the neighbors' concern. I'm not sure exactly how
that traffic system -- to me I'd have to have a satellite system to get myself from
Calderwood back to Overland Road, but, apparently, it must be fairly easy for traffic
problems. My thinking is that the majority of the users here coming to Overland would
turn around and go back out to fhe north. However, I'm not a traffic expert; I just play
one on the -- in front of you folks. The other thing I'd like to suggest is -- I think we have
to keep in mind that this is a commercial site. This is an allowed use. You know, the
ordinance has -- has allowed fhis use for some time and as the master plan was being
developed, certainly most of it perhaps prior to the neighborhood development, and,
again, as I think Mr. Ross pointed out, they were part of the original approval, all of
which included more than one fast food restaurant. So, there had to be some
considerafion in -- that traffic, in effect, would be created, whether it be by the Sonic
user or any user that goes on that site. So, I think fhat I certainly understand the
arguments of the neighbors, but on the other hand I understand what we are allowed to
do by ordinance and I would ask for your concurrence in reversing the Planning and
Zoning Commission and eventual approval.
De Weerd: Council, questions for Mr. Strite?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I'm going to ask a question, actually, of the director, if I may. And that would
be to go to an overall site plan of the subdivision. Or at least one that showed more of
the buildings. I don't think we had the whole subdivision, but we had one that showed
more of the buildings. That would do. A couple times it's been mentioned that fhe
subdivision was approved for finro drive-thrus and I see finro existing already. One there
and one there. This would be a fhird, which makes me believe fhat it's not automatic.
You know, I don't -- it could be that a restaurant use here is, essentially, preapproved,
but I don't see how the drive-thru use is. Am I interpreting something right or wrong?
Meridian City Council
June 3, 2008
Page 49 of 56
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I Chink there is actually even three
existing. I believe fhis structure already has two -- or was planned for two. The -- the
original concept plan -- I do believe is being shown to you. However, I think that --
De Weerd: Can we show it on the -- the overhead, so the rest of us can see it? I mean
I'm glad Mr. Zaremba got to see it, but I--
Zaremba: . I'm fhe only one. I'm going to keep it.
De Weerd: I'm nosey enough that I think we all should get to see it.
Strite: While she's doing it, if I might comment to Councilman Zaremba. I was not
referring to drive-thrus, I was referring to drive-thru restaurants. Those that are there
now are not drive-thru restaurants, but -- and I think fhat's the important difference here
in terms of traffic generation, which you well know.
Zaremba: I'm not understanding. You say fhat they serve no food or consumables that
-- like a drive-thru drycleaners or something?
Strite: I'll tell you, I don't go to the coffee shop, but I think they do sell donuts, so, yes,
they do have consumables. ~
De Weerd: I guess a drive-thru is a drive-thru. And I believe fihat's why --
Strite: Well, that's correct. But I wanted to clarify my position as originally approved as
a drive-fhru restaurant.
De Weerd: And I guess fhat's why they are also a conditional use.
Strite: Referred to as fast foods.
De Weerd: Okay.
Strite: Affectionately, I might add.
Zaremba: And why the 300 foot separation is -- makes it a need for consideration.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, it's been some time since Southern
Springs went through, but I do not believe that we fied them to the uses shown on their
concept plan. I do believe that fhey asked for more flexibility, so I don't -- I don't think
we specifically called out those uses as only being appropriate within this development.
Likewise, I don't think we guaranteed those uses would be appropriate in those
locations. We didn't go into that kind of detail with that approval.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions, Mr. Zaremba?
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June 3, 2008
Page 50 of 56
Zaremba: Thank you. No.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any other questions? You know -- if you will go to the -- the
pad site, Anna. Can you tell me, Mr. Strite -- I guess I noticed that this drive-thru has
the headlights pointing towards fhe neighborhood on -- on fhis particular thing.
Strite: The headlights would, actually, be pointing towards the west entering. Exiting,
you're entirely right. They, obviously, would be exiting back to the east. But they enter
from the east, proceeding west, go southerly --
De Weerd: And where do fhe pick up their food? They pick up their food as they are
pointed east.
Strite: Right there.
De Weerd: Okay. So, they are sitting there waiting for fheir food.
Strite: They come in this way, it's a one-way pattern, they come around like fhis, they sit
right here, they pick up their food, they exit out. And I believe they go this way, but I
certainly wouldn't argue with the neighbors that maybe fhis is faster. I have never
driven it, so I couldn't say.
De Weerd: And so what shields the headlights?
Strite: Well, we have a landscape area there, but if you will also notice in the master
plan there is another building that goes right here.
De Weerd: Okay. So, what happens until fhat?
Strite: Well --
De Weerd: You know, I know that's not your problem, but it is a problem.
Strite: Well, we can probably take fhis landscape area right here and thicken it and put
it -- you know, certainly there is adequate room to put large enough plant material that
would be above headlight view, if that's what you're considering. When they are sitting
parallel with fhe building, you're absolutely correct; those lights are going to go direct
this way. When they pull out of here, like any user along here, they are going to be
coming easterly and going one way or the way, regardless of what the use might be.
But certainly in this area right here we can provide adequate screening, if that's the
desire of the Council.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor, on the same subject, while they are placing their order their
headlights would be facing the opposite direction on Meridian Road.
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June 3, 2008
Page 51 of 56
Strite: It would be facing the trash enclosure. That's correct. They are placing their
order, they are sitfing -- they are -- actually, when they are placing their order they are
right here. Excuse me. But you're absolutely right, if you had three or four cars waiting,
one car, but only one, would be facing down traffic, but it would be facing the trash
enclosure. And there is some -- there is 35 feet of landscaping there.
Zaremba: Another question is that a good place for the trash enclosure. I realize fihat's
probably where Sanitary Services would be easiest to access it, but that's not very
attractive.
Strite: That's where SSC asked us to place it, actually when we suggested that that
would be the better place. They have one at Schucks as well on the same location,
only their access over here, they pull into their trash enclosure directly from the east, as
opposed to us pulling in southerly, if you will. And ours is that --
Zaremba: The plan is to dress it up. Is it going to look better than a trash enclosure?
Strite: Well, I think it looks better with the honed block, but that's a personal opinion,
yes. Certainly we have gone to lengths to design it to look a lot better than the standard
trash enclosure.
De Weerd: Any other questions firom Council? Okay. Any further comments?
Strite: I have no further comments.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Strite: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, is there further information needed f.rom staff at this point or
do you have all the information you need?
Canning; Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I wanted to express an issue that
perhaps is coming up now. I don't know. I have always viewed the Sonic as really
more than one -- this -- this window, fhat pick-up window isn't really the only -- I'm sorry,
I don't have a pointer. That pick-up window that was being discussed previously isn't
really the only drive-thru. I mean our code calls a drive-thru an establishment providing
drive-thru service and including the stacking lane, speaker and/or order area, pick-up
windows and exit lane, so I have some question as to whether all the stalls are -- are
the drive-thru areas as well, because there is an ordering area there. There is a pick-up
area there. So, I just had that question in my head. I don't know if it was adequately
addressed by the Planning and Zoning Commission, but I didn't want to -- for you all to
forget that there are other order areas associated with this and ofher pick-up areas.
That's all. I didn't express that very well, I apologize, but --
Meridian City Council
June 3, 2008
Page 52 of 56
De Weerd: Council, any further questions, comments, before you close the Public
Hearing?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: We should address the subject of hours that has been brought up a couple of
times. Hours of operation. I-- I think I could be comfortable with the midnight hour if
the other buildings across the street were already built, but I wonder if it would be
possible to make it more limited hours until they are built. I can buy that they will buffer
the sound once the other buildings are fihere, but -- and fhat seems pretty late until there
are buildings there. Just a comment. No ofher opinions?
De Weerd: It doesn't look like anyone's jumping on --
Rounfiree: I think if fhe direcfion is to reverse the Planning and Zoning, then, certainly
timing is appropriate to discuss.
Zaremba: And I'm not convinced we are going fhat direction, so --
Rountree: I -- yeah.
De Weerd: Okay. Certainly fhat would be a topic of discussion if that were to happen.
So, any other comments from Council?
Rountree: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. If there are none, do I have a motion to close?
Rountree: Madam Mayor'?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we close the Public Hearing for AP 08-002.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to close the Public Hearing on Item
12. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Okay. Any discussion? If there is no discussion, do I have a motion?
Meridian City Council
June 3, 2008
Page 53 of 56
Rountree: Madam Mayor, for -- just to generate some discussion I would move that we
do not reverse the denial decision of Planning and Zoning.
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a.second. Is there discussion? Seeing none, I
would ask the clerk to, please, call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, nay; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
De Weerd: Okay: Three ayes. One nay. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE NAY.
Item 13: Ordinance No. 08-1366 : Reconsideration for Final Decision
Ordinance (3rd of 3 Readings):
De Weerd: Okay. Okay. Ordinance No. 08-1366. I would -- this is the third reading of
three readings. I would ask the clerk to, please, read fhis by title only.
Holman: Thank you, Madam Mayor. City of Meridian Ordinance No. 08-1366, an
ordinance adding Title 1, Chapter 7, Section 10, Meridian City Code, regarding request
for reconsideration for final decisions of the Meridian City Council of the City of Meridian
and providing an effective date.
De Weerd: Okay. We have had fhe three readings of this particular ordinance. I would
ask if is there anyone in the audience who would like to hear it read in its entirety?
Seeing no indication of interest, Council, do I have a motion to approve this ordinance?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I move we approve Ordinance 08-1366.
De Weerd: Okay. Do I have a second?
Borton: Second.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Meridian City Council
June 3, 2008
Page 54 of 56
Zaremba: Do I need to say suspension of rules or we have actually followed all fhe
rules.
De Weerd: We have followed the rules.
Zaremba: Okay. In that case --
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to approve Item 13 for those of you
that might not have been paying attention.
Rountree: I was listening.
Bird: We were listening. We know what --
De Weerd: Madam Clerk, will you, please, call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 14: Ordinance No. AZ 07-020 Request for
Annexation and Zoning of 21.81 acres from RUT to R-15 zone for Chalet
Marseilles by RC Meridian Partners, LLC - Northwest Corner of East
Ustick Road and North Locust Grove Road:
De Weerd: Okay. ~Item 14 is Ordinance No. 08-1368. I would ask the clerk to, please,
read this by title only.
Holman: Thank you, Madam Mayor. City of Meridian Ordinance No. 08-1369, an
ordinance AZ 07-020, Chalet Marseilles for annexation of a parcel of land being that
portion of the soufiheast one quarter of the southeast one quarter of Section 31,
Township 4 North, Range 1 East, Boise Meridian, Ada County, Idaho, as described in
Attachment A and annexing certain lands and territories situated in Ada County, Idaho,
and adjacent and contiguous to the corporate limits of the City of Meridian, as requested
by the City of Meridian, establishing and determining the land use zoning classification
of said lands from RUT, Ada County, to R-15, Medium Density Residential District, in
the Meridian City Code, providing that copies of this ordinance shall be filed with the
Ada County Assessor, the Ada County Recorder, and the Idaho State Tax Commission,
as required by law, and providing for a summary of the ordinance and providing for a
waiver of the reading rules and providing an effective date.
De Weerd: Thank you. You have heard this ordinance read by title only. 1s fhere
anyone who would like to hear it read in it's entirety?. Seeing none, Council?
Meridian Ciry Council
June 3, 2008
Page 55 of 56
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would move that we pass Ordinance 08-1368 with suspension of rules.
Rounfiree: Second.
De Weerd: Thank you. I have a motion and a second to approve Item 14. Madam
Glerk, will you, please, call roll.
Ro11-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 15: Executive Session per ldaho State Code ~67-2345(1)(b) -(to consider
the evaluation, dismissal or disciplining of, or to hear complaints or
charges brought against, a public officer, employee, staff member or
individual agent, or public school student &(c) -(to conduct deliberations
concerning labor negotiations or to acquire an interest in real property,
which is not owned by a public agency):
De Weerd: Item 16 is Executive Session. I would entertain a motion to adjourn into
Executive Session. ~
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we go into Executive Session as per ldaho State Code 67-2345(1)(b) and
(1)(c).
Rounfiree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. A motion and a second. Madam Clerk, will you, please, call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
EXECUTIVE SESSION:
De Weerd: Okay. I'd entertain a motion to come out of Executive Session.
Meridian City Council
June 3, 2008
Page 56 of 56
Rountree: So moved.
Borton: Second.
De Weerd: All those in favor say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Okay. Take a motion to adjourn.
Rountree: So moved.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: All those in favor'? Thank you. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 10:11 P.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
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MAYOR TAM e WEERD DATE APPROVED
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