HomeMy WebLinkAbout2008 05-13Meridian Citv Council Special Workshop Meetina Mav 13, 2008
A meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:00 p.m., Tuesday, May
13, 2008, by President Charlie Rountree.
Members Present: Tammy de Weerd, David Zaremba, Keith Bird, and Charlie
Rountree.
Members Absent: Joe Borton.
Others Present: B'ill Nary, Jaycee Holman, Jeff Lavey, John Overton, Will Berg, Steve
Siddoway, Keifh Watts, Joe Silva, Tom Barry, and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
X David Zaremba Joe Borton
X Charlie Rountree X Keifh Bird
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
Rountree: I will open the Special Workshop Meeting of March 13th. The time is 6:00
o'clock. Roll call vote, please. Or attendance. Vote, fine, either way.
Item 2: Adoption of the Agenda:
Rountree: Second item is the adoption of the agenda.
Bird: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: It has been requested by the Public Works and by the attorney to add Item 7, an
Execufive Session as per ldaho State Code 67-23459(1)(f). With that I move that we
accept the revised agenda as published.
Zaremba: Second.
Rountree: IYs been moved and seconded to accept fhe revised agenda. All those in
favor? Motion passes.
MOTfON CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 3: CONSENT AGENDA
(a) Approve Amended Minutes of the January 8, 2008 City Council
Minutes
Meridian Ciry Council Special Workshop
May 13, 2008
Page 2 of 68
(b) Change Order No. 6 for WWTP Expansion with JC Constructors for
$87,480.75
(c) Change Orders No. 9, 10 & 11 for the North Black Cat Trunk with
Brown Construction for $23,755.00
(d) Amendment No. 1 to Task Order 2.5 - Filter 4 Final Design with
CH2M HILL for $37,500
Rountree: Next item is the Consent Agenda.
Bird: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve the Consent Agenda and I believe that all the facts and figures
are on the Consent Agenda as published and for the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to
attest.
Zaremba: Second.
Rountree: Moved and seconded to approve fihe Consent Agenda. All those in favor?
Motion passes.
MOTION CARRFED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 4: UPDATE ON NEW CITY HALL BUILDING CONSTRUCTION:
(a) Update from Petra
(b) Discussion on Parking
(c) Discussion on Sign Package
Rountree: Next item. Update on City Hall. Gene, take it away.
Bennett: Members of City Council, Madam Mayor, my name is Gene Bennett and I'm
with Petra, Incorporated, 1097 North Rosario, Meridian, Idaho. You have in front of you
the monthly report and I will take you through the Executive Summary. The schedule is
still scheduled as completion of October 15th and Jack Vaughn, our project
superintendent, will walk you through fhe detail on that. Adam will take you through the
Leeds. And, financial, Tom will take you through that. As a brief note, the project is
being air tested right now on the first floor. That's one of the major items that has to be
accomplished as we work our way fihrough the building. That is in progress and that's
good news. Wifh that I will turn it over to Jack Vaughn, project superintendent, to briefly
walk you through Section No. 2, which is your detail schedules.
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May 13, 2008
Page 3 of 68
Vaughn: Madam Mayor and Councilmen, thank you allowing me to introduce myself.
My name is Jack Vaughn, senior superintendent for Petra. The initial schedule is the
master production schedule, which you have seen roufiinely. Red line indicates
beginning of May progress. We are -- obviously, the check marks on the second
column from the left indicate items that are substantially complete. Roof systems,
exterior masonry, store front systems are still pending, lines 19, 20, and 21. Nearly
finished. Access floor is nearly finished. Line 29. And we are getting a good start on
the elevators. Drywall, interior pain#. As we finish in these finishes here, we are,
actually, a little ahead of schedule. You will see there the dark lines indicating our
current progress versus fhe proposed schedule. No major concerns on the master
schedule. I'd like turn to the next page, which will take this master schedule and break it
down into a three week schedule we use to help our trades in production. This breaks
down by floor and area. First floor is primarily done. We are beginning to do trim out.
Ceilings are moving along nicely. As you can see the dark black line coming down is
the May 1 st report date. We are a little behind there. However, not to any concern. We
are doing fhe same progress on second floor south. We are progressing well there.
First floor norfih, we have hung sheetrock. We are into our ceiling work. We are well
painted-. We are progressing well fihere. Second floor north, which starts on line 29, we
are right on schedule there. Drywall is progressing. We are actually quite into our
painting by now, which is where we need to be. The last two sections there that start
with line 40 and also line 51, they indicate third floor south and third floor north. At the
time of this report printing, which was May 2nd, we are a little behind; however, we have
caught that back up. We have been able to get back on schedule there, so we are in
fairly good shape as far as our fhree week schedule is concerned. I'd like to go ahead
and proceed on with the next three sheets, actually, will be new to your review and our
comments. They involve the latest contract that was issued out involving the plaza and
site work. This is broken down over the next three pages into multiple categories and
we broke this down as basically each building or each item pertaining to that area. As
you can see, street parking, toilet building, amphitheater, entry pools and so forth. The
dark heavy line that you see is the actual.duration of that particular entity of that site
and, then, the lines direcfly below that indicate the progress of each of those individual
items. We were supposed to start with May 12th, which was, as you know, yesterday,
so we have no indication line on there and everything is started fine. We have, actually,
got a little jump on the gun a little bit, a couple days. We have poured footings. We
have already stood walls up. So, we are in good shape there as well. This schedule
will take us -- as you see on fhe third page, going to line 97, we finished up with
landscaping and we are expected to finish the third week of September with the site
work and plaza improvements currently. If there is any questions?
Rounfiree: No particular questions. Thank you.
Vaughn: Thank you.
Johnson: Good evening, folks. I'll run through Tab 3, the Leeds section.
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Page 4 of 68
Rountree: Excuse me. If you would give us your name, please.
Johnson: Yeah. Adam Johnson. Petra. Forgot about that.
Rountree: Thank you.
Johnson: Jumping the gun here. So excited about the Leeds stuff here.
Rountree: We are, too.
Johnson: So, just kind of run through the same rigmarole we are going through. We
are still at 36 points. Five additional points, which we are working on, gets a finalization
to see if we can move those to our yes column or our no column. So, we are leaning for
the yes. Right now, jump down to the third bullet item, our air pressure testing on fhe
access floor. V1/e are hot and heavy in the first floor south, getting that pressure going
to the floor, have everything sealed up, so we can see what air loss is. Right now we
are sitting at 12 percent. We are in the range of where we need to be. We are pretty
dang close. So, fine tuning that, get everything buttoned up fhere and, then, we will
have a procedure in place. We are working with Heery International, our commissioning
agent, and going through their procedures to make sure everything's documented and
we are getting all that taken care of.
De Weerd: Mr. Chairman?
Rountree: Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: Adam, has fhere been any problem since there has been a change with the
subcontractor on the Leeds thing? Is there any problems with that?
Johnson: As in --
De Weerd: With Heery.
Johnson: With losing Tim, our commissioning agent?
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Johnson: We still -- we have gotten a new local contact. She stepped in, got me a little
more documentation that I had been missing on that, so ifs just paperwork catch up on
my end to pick up, but we are still right on track wifh where we need to be. She's on the
site at least once, if not twice a week, helping us out and, then, we had the executive
commissioning agent from their main office fly in this morning and he visited the site
briefly and he's going to come out again I think next week and visit with us on that. So,
we are still trucking right along. He's -- it's just a few papers fhat I just need to fill out.
So, that's the only change in that, so --
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May 13, 2008
Page 5 of 68
De Weerd: Okay.
Johnson: If that makes sense. Other than that, page two, we are at a recycling update.
Right now we are pushing 79.7 percent, so right at 80 percent. So, that gets us an
additional Leed from our maybe column that we are feeling pretty confident about. So,
that's pretty impressive to date, 80 percent diverted from the land fill. So, very
impressive. A lot of contractors are wondering how we are doing it. So, giving tips out
on that, so they can proceed with the same. Other than that, any other Leed questions
you guys might have?
Rountree: Don't see any, Adam. Thank you.
Johnson: Okay. Thanks.
Coglin: Counsel, Mayor, I'm Tom Coglin with Petra. Section four relates to the financial
aspects of the project. The building budget remains unchanged, 20, 24, two. Basically,
the same as it was November last year. Phase two and three, the building itself is
approximately 84 percent built out as of the end of April. And the third and fourth sheet
and your section four tab outlines the status of the contingency, the improved change
orders to date. As of May 1 st there were 22 contractor change orders. Some have
since been approved. There remain some outstanding. Those amounts are all included
in the budget. There is nothing outside the already stated budget amount. And, then,
on the second page there is some projections of where we stand with stuff still to be
submitted. Any questions?
Rountree: I see no questions, Tom. Thank you.
Coglin: Thank you.
Rountree: Gene, you want to wrap up?
Bennett: Thank you. In closing, fhe job is progressing on schedule and within the
financial budgets that were set last December. We will have coffee next Wednesday for
anyone that would like to walk the building at 7:30 in the morning and will be a short half
hour session.
De Weerd: Why don't we do it at the end of the day?
Bennett: We can move it to fhe end the day.
Bird: No, let's keep it in the morning.
Bennett: Well, we will do it at 7:30 next Wednesday and we will do it at 4:30 the
following month. Okay. Thank you very much.
Rountree: The art of compromise. Thank you.
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May 13, 2008
Page 6 of 68
De Weerd: Very politically correct, Gene.
Rountree: Next item on fhe agenda is the department reports. Police Department.
Watts: Madam Mayor, Council Members --
Rountree: Oh. Yeah. Right. Will and Keith. Excuse me.
Bird: And Steve.
Rountree: Or Steve.
Watts: We will have Steve go --
Rountree: Okay.
Simmons: President Rountree, Mayor, Members of the Council, my name is Steve
Simmons with LCA Architects, Boise, Idaho. Today I think you should have before you
some parking options for that northeast property. We laid out several concept plans for
that. Does everyone need a copy or do you have one?
De Weerd: We have one.
Rountree: We have it.
Simmons: We met last week with the Mayor to give her an update and look at several --
and looked at these three --. two options, A and B, which you have in front of you,
hopefully, and that ended up with a hybrid C, which is the one that's -- the latter, which
is this one. It's not really lettered, as you can see. A lot of fhe input was based on
information -- there was an exchange of e-mails with fhe planning director, she was
looking at that and giving her input as well and we ended up wifh this Option C. It's kind
of a hybrid of everyfhing and fhe best of both worlds. Still having access off of
Broadway, diagonal directional parking there adjacent to the current property and, then,
exiting out onto Main Street. I have had discussions with Jeanie at ACHD regarding this
alley and the maintaining of that alley and we are currently still showing a 16 foot
asphalt width t~here, which allows, technically, by their standards, finro way access in that
alley, although we had preferred to have one way. Their original response to that
several monfhs was -- from their director was they prefer two way. Now, that was prior
to the city acquiring the property. So, they are still trying to analyze their direction on
that and perhaps with the proper signage we can still achieve that, but even under this
design, although there could be some safety impacts there, perhaps, it allows for that
currently to happen. Option C does allow for 46 additional spots -- parking stalls on fihe
property proper. We still have the directional parking along fihe very western edge
there, as well as it also allows directional parking off of -- diagonal parking, I should say,
off of Broadway. So, we pick up quite a few stalls in total there and maximize the
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Page 7 of 68
property. The one -- one of the comments that came out of the session with the Mayor
last week was we have been discussing quite a bit about the clock that was going to be
in the plaza area as you enter the property. Perhaps one location for that -- and I throw
fhat out for input to the Council would be relocating that towards the corner, towards this
northeast corner, and if you go to Option A, which is the first one there, it actually
implies somewhat of a clock or a kiosk feature, if you will, and that would be kind of a
nice little area to perhaps have a hybrid of Option A at the corner and maybe Option C
for parking aspects and I would just throw that out for comments for you to evaluate,
realizing there is a light pole -- or, excuse me, a traffic light fixture that's going in
currently, so we have to coordinate some of that, but it's kind of a nice little amenity
there as well. So, I guess what we are asking for tonight is direction on Option C to be
able to pursue that. We do have to prepare the package, if everything looks okay, next
week, submit it to the city for conditional use. At the same time, if the city so desires,
we could march on with the working drawings for that as well. Currently, just by way of
information, last week, with Ted's assistance, we did turn in the temporary licensing
agreement with ACHD. That package has gone to them and it's in their hands for
evaluation, minus the improvements to the alley and fhis parking lot. The alley will be
submitted wifhin the next week or so and that's fine with them and, then, the parking lot
will go in as a separate package when we are completed. So, any questions?
Rountree: Any questions for Steve?
Bird: I have none
Watts: I would just like to add that we have had an asbestos survey done on the gas
station and there are some small amounts of asbestos that we will need to remove.
Ideal Demolition is on board, they ~have filed their ten day notice, and I believe, if we get
the report back, hopefully, from MTI tomorrow, he's planning on -- he's able to at least
empty the oil tanks that are on site. We are not going to remove them at this time, we
are just going to drain them and, then, start the demolition -- or the abatement of the
asbestos.
Rountree: Any further quesfions, comments? Thank you, Steve.
Simmons: Thank you.
Rountree: We need some direction on C.
Bird: Yeah, we do. Mr. President?
Rounfiree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I like the C layout and I-- I think moving the clock out there is -- is a fantastic idea.
We go to a four face clock, which, as I always thought, was the way it was designed
anyway and I think fhat's the ideal location for the nice clock to be out there and Opfion
C gives us some awful good parking.
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Rountree: David, any comments? Concur in that?
Zaremba: That sounds good to me.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: You bet.
Rountree: I think you have your direction.
De Weerd: That was the discussion.
Rountree: And that's to move forward as well with the drawings?
Bird: Yes.
Rountree: Yes. So, move forward with the drawings and with C. Okay. It's your turn
now, Will.
Berg: Thank you, Mr. President, Members of fihe Council. Further back on those
pages, like the last two, are some drawings for monument sign that several of us had
been working on and that is kind of the final conceptual drawing. I don't know if you --
the packet that was previously laid on your table, the last couple of pages.
Rountree: We have got them.
Berg: If you'd flip further back, there is a diagram of the wall with the brushed aluminum
lettering. We originally kind of had gold, but Steve Simmons suggested that maybe to
match the building, which is all brushed aluminum, fhe roof and the window frames, that
that would -- and according to kind of the drawing on the concept here it shows that it
probably shows up pretty good. We have added the -- the address, because we
needed to put the address somewhere on site, and that seemed to be about the best
place to put it. Steve's going to look at that a little bit carefully and make sure that is a
good location. And, then, the last concept is -- this next page is the illuminated lettering,
which is on top of the City Hall building on the face where the doors are at the very top.
It will be illuminated, but it will have the brushed aluminum look and I'm sure Steve will
look at that as -- make sure it stands out. The sign people assured me that it will look
really nice when it's lit up at night and it will be illuminated from the back, so -- and,
then, the last one was just showing where we would have to put some lettering on the
doors -- above the doors. So, I guess if there is any questions, comments, or direction
to go ahead with these kind of concepts, we will get started with it.
Rountree: Thank you, Will. Comments? Direction?
De Weerd: Mr. Chair'?
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Rountree: Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: I guess there is still the remaining question on fhe wall sign in the plaza. Do
you want City Hall or -- and the address or do you want just the address with City Hall
on the face of fhe building? That's kind of what we came down to is -- you have two
opfions fhere with the City Hall on the wall with the address or address only.
Rountree: Mr. Bird?
Bird: Oh. I prefer to have City Hail to the address and not have anyfhing on the face of
the building, but I'm sure I'm in the minority on that.
Berg: Mr. President, if I could just make a few just suggestions as we look at this in a
perspective. The Mayor was correct; we talked about this several times. If you're
coming down Main Street and looking at the building, you're going to see the face of the
building, with City Hall above the doors, you'd see that sign. If you come down
Broadway you wouldn't necessarily see the lettering on the City Hall building, you would
see fhis wall. And, then, when you come down Meridian Road you would see the
monument sign. So, try and cover the fhree sides and, you're right, I mean you could
put a lot more signage or a lot less, but that's what we were looking at as we were trying
to address the different west, east, and north views.
Rountree: Okay.
Bird: Sure.
De Weerd: Okay.
Rountree: Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: Mr. Chairman. Will, on fhe face of that wall, is that -- can you -- which --
which wall section are you talking about, this one or -- or this one? This one or that
one? This long one; right?
Bird: On the face is nortti. In the plaza.
De Weerd: See, here -- here is the wall. Which one? Right here or that? Yeah. So,
you can't really see that from Broadway either. It's this one. Just fhought I'd ask -- no,
you wouldn't be able to see that from the road.
Rountree: So, the clarification would be a signage wall that would be facing the street.
De Weerd: 1t's on that water feature.
Bird: Yeah.
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May 13, 2008
Page 10 of 68
Rountree: It's on the water feature.
De Weerd: But I guess if -- if you can see it at that angle, you would be seeing the City
Hall on the building as well. I guess that's Keith's -- Council Bird's point is --
Watts: I think the reasoning for -- my belief from our discussions, the reasoning for the
sign on the top of the building is if you were coming south on Main Street you wouldn't
have any signage. That was -- that was the thought process.
De Weerd: And fihe direction is the big building.
Watts: Kind of hard to miss.
B'ird: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: And, you know, on the building, it's probably right, because when we get the split
option it will -- you will be able to see it as you're going across the -- over -- I can -- I
don't know how much those letters cost, but I do -- I think the letters on the end wall
there really are attractive and I suppose we need to put letters, as bad as I hate to
fuddle up fihe nice looking stone on the building, too. I don't know if -- I don't know if we
need it there or just the address. I'll let Keith, Will, and Tammy decide.
Rountree: Mr. Zaremba, any comments?
Zaremba: I hesitate to bring up it, but we have City Hall three places and only one of
fhem does it say Meridian. Don't we want to say Meridian City Hall?
De Weerd: I hope they would know they are in Meridian.
Zaremba: They should know they are in the city, but -- I'm just thinking photo opps. I
mean if we are ever on the nafiional news with the Mayor standing in front of the
building, nothing on fhe building says Meridian.
Rountree: And that might be a good thing.
De Weerd: I'm going to take that as a compliment.
Zaremba: Other than that I'm happy with it.
Bird: Do you want to leave the signage on both -- the wall?
Zaremba: You mean I was supposed to actually make a decision, other than what I'm
looking at?
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De Weerd: Well, do you want City Hall on the building? Do you want City Hall on the
wall? Do you want just the address on the wall?
Bird: What do you want?
Zaremba: I'd kind of like to have City Hall both places.
De Weerd: Okay. You good with fihat? City Hall both places?
Rountree: It seems to me like on the wall it's redundant if you're going to have it in the
front of the building, but --
De Weerd: Yeah. I don't think it's needed on the wall. I'm for the address on the wall
and the City Hall on the building.
Rountree: That makes sense to me.
Zaremba: I don't feel strongly either way.
De Weerd: Okay.
B'ird: It sure don't bother me.
De Weerd: Okay.
Rountree: And, fhen, the --
Bird: The sign with the reader board in it.
Rountree: And the illuminated monument sign is okay with everybody?
Bird: Boy, that's my --
Rountree: Thumbs up on that? So, if you can repeat what our obtuse direction was,
Will, make sure we understand you understand what --
Berg: Well, I think the only correction is this sign right here, we will just take City Hall off
and we will probably make the lettering a little bit bigger for the address.
De Weerd: Okay.
Rountree: Good. Thank you.
Bird: We need to get the sign company to layout for the electrical out there.
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Page 12 of 68
De Weerd: And, Will and Keith, you will figure out if -- how we bid it out and all of that?
Watts: Yes. We will take care of that. Yes, Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: Okay.
Item 5: DEPARTMENT REPORTS:
(a) Police Department
1. Introduction of New Employees
(b) Fire Department
1. Memorandum of Mutual Intent with Rural Fire District
(c) Public Works Dept
1. Budget Amendment to Increase WWTP Operation Assistance
Agreement with CH2M HfLL OMI for $11,000
2. Budget Amendment for Construction Project Manager
(d) Parks & Recreation Dept.
1. Meridian Youth Baseball (MYB) Complex Closeout
2. Settlers Village Square Phasing
(e) Legal/Human Resources
1. Drug and Alcohol Policy Hiring Procedures
Rountree: Thanks, Will. Next item on the agenda is now Department Reports. Police
Department. Chief Lavey. Welcome.
Lavey: Thank you. Mr. President, Madam Mayor, Council, every year May 15th is
Police Officer Memorial Day and the purpose of that day is to thank the officers that
have given the ulfimate sacrifice to the line of duty and they lost their lives. Also fihe
preceding week, which is this week, is Police Week. So, I couldn't think of a more
appropriate fime to actually introduce a few people that have dedicated their lives to this
city and serve this city well and we used to have a ceremony here and introduce the
officers and ~this is -- fhe purpose of today is to right a wrong. For whatever reason we
have gotten extremely busy and we forgot that important part and I went back a year
and, unfortunately, I couldn't bring everybody here, maybe when we get the next Gity
Hall we will have more room. And, for the record, I don't want to be on the national
news. But today what I'd like to do is recognize a few officers, tell a little bit about them,
give you a chance to ask questions if you so desire and, then, also introduce a few of
our recent promotions. So, with that being said, you're going to see the new officers on
your right and the promotions on your left. And I was able to do that without -- without a
mirror. Brandon Frazier. Brandon Frazier -- you might raise your hand so they know
who you are. Brandon Frazier, actually, started with the Meridian Police Department in
June of 2007. Brandon comes to us from Canyon County Sheriff s Office where he
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Page 13 of 68
worked two additional years. So, Brandon has three years of law enforcement
experience. Richard Lee. Richard Lee came from the Meridian -- or came to the
Meridian Police Department in 2007. He has a total of seven years of law enforcement
experience. He worked a time for the Canyon County Sheriff's Office, for the Boise
Police Department, for fihe Caldwell Police Department, and he also worked as a
firefighter until he came onto the good side.
De Weerd: We are glad you found your home.
Lavey: Justin Northway. Justin Northway came to fhe Meridian Police Department in
June of 2007. Justin has no ofher law enforcement experience. Chris Siems. Chris
came to the police department March of 2008. Chris has 14 years of law enforcement
experience. He actually was a reserve officer for the city of Emmeft. He actually served
as a police officer for the city of Emmett. He actually was serving as a corporal with the
Idaho State Police at the time fhat he came to our department. Dan Vogt. Dan started
with fihe police department in October 2007. Dan has a total seven years experience.
He actually worked for the Canyon County Sheriff s Office as a marine deputy before
going up to Moscow where he served wifh Moscow for -- until 2007 and, then, decided
to come back and join Meridian. Did Kevin show up? There you go. Kevin, actually,
was working out there. He was on a call. Kevin actually started with Meridian in
October of 2007. Kevin has a total of six years law enforcement experience. Prior to
coming to the Meridian Police Department Kevin served as a motor officer with the
Idaho State Police.
De Weerd: Does Kevin have a last name?
Lavey: Wilson.
De Weerd: Wilson.
Lavey: Kevin Wilson.
De Weerd: Thank you. Hi, Kevin.
Lavey: My apologies. Karen Ziolkowski. Karen actually came to fhe Meridian Police
Department in June of 2007. Karen has no other law enforcement experience. Jeff
Fuller. Jeff actually came to Meridian Police Department in March of 2008. He served
a time with fihe Canyon County Sheriff's Office on the good side. He actually worked for
the Boise Police Department out at the airport and, then, came to us in 2008. And Jeff
also served us in another capacity as a Marine in the armed forces. Tom Nesbitt. I
have a little bit more information on Tom, because I believe it needs to be recognized,
and Tom is one of those -- those great hires and I won't tell any stories on him -- Tom, I
promise. Tom actually started in 1990 as a marine deputy with the Gem County
Sheriff's Office. He also worked in the jail at Gem County. In 1992 he actually went to
the -- to patrol and served as a road deputy and worked his way up to the rank of
lieutenant. Then, in 1996 he actually transferred to the Idaho State Police where he
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Page 14 of 68
served four years in their forensics science unit working on fingerprints. When he
actually left the forensics, he was a senior latent print examiner. And I actually recall
him struggling wifh that decision to go onto the road, because thaf's the time that I
actually came to Meridian in 1997. But he actually became an expert witness in crime
scene investigations, but he made that hard decision, he actually went on the road. He
went on fihe road as a state trooper, became a master corporal in the patrol division. He
actually also worked on a motorcycle and came to Yhe Meridian Police Department in
2008. And I believe he's going to wonder why I left his name to the last, he probably
thinks it's suspicious, but I passed over him. Chris Siems. Chris Siems came to fhe
Meridian Police Department March of 2008. Chris actually has 14 years of law
enforcement experience -- did I give -- okay. See. You know what, Chris has a big
head and it would just make it bigger.
Rountree: He's going to have an encore.
Lavey: Actually, he should wonder why he's always on my mind. Did I cover all the
new officers? I believe this is the safest place in the city today, too. There is so many
police officers here that -- on my other side. One of the -- one of the pleasures that I
have is -- is promoting new people through the ranks of the police department. We start
out with the rank of corporal and we work on up to sergeant and lieutenant and such.
This month we are actually testing for lieutenant and so I will probably be back. But
some of the recent promotions that I wanted to talk about were corporals and sergeants.
Branden Fiscus. Branden is actually a Marine as well and has se~rved our country.
Branden actually started in the Meridian Police Department in June of 2005. Branden
has a total of 12 years law enforcement experience. He actually worked at Blaine
county, Hailey Police Department, Boise City Police Department, before he finally
decided to come stay with us. Terry Hodges. Terry started with the Meridian Police
department in November 2005. Terry has a total of seven years law enforcement
experience and he actually came from the Hailey Police Department as well. Brian
Lueddeke started with the Meridian Police Department in 2003. He has no other law
enforcement experience, however, he has experience in dealing with law enforcement
products. Motorola. I think we gave more money to Motorola #han we do to salaries.
Some of the -- those are fhe new corporals. The new sergeants as of April 21 st of this
year. Sergeant Mark Taylor comes to us from the Boise city airport in 1999. He came
to -- he was -- excuse me. He was promoted to corporal in 2005 and in April of this year
he was promoted to sergeant. Sergeant Stokes. Sergeant Stokes came to the
Meridian Police Department in 2003. Since fhat fime he's actually secved as a field
training officer, a K-9 handler, a patrol corporal and he's now patrol sergeant. Before he
came to the Meridian Police Department he actually worked for the State of Idaho as a
probation and parole officer from 1998 to 2003. He actually is the handler that took Tiko
after I was promoted through the ranks. That is all for that. I'd like to introduce you to
the newest members of the Meridian Police Department, going back to March of 2007,
and I would like to thank them for their dedication that they give to the city and instruct
them that anytime they see any of these people up here in front, they need to wave at
them. Wifh all fingers.
Meridian City Council Special Workshop
May 13, 2008
Page 45 of 68
De Weerd: You know, fhat is a rating on his past, so --
Lavey: That's why I got the chuckle.
De Weerd: I# was the all fingers thing that I added to it.
Bird: Make sure it isn't her IQ.
Lavey: That is my report. Thank you.
Bird: Thank you.
Rountree: Thank you, chief. And welcome to all you new folks, lady, and gentlemen. I
hope I don't ever have to see you, but I would really appreciate the wave and,
gentlemen, congratulations on your promotions. And thank you all for choosing and
staying with Meridian. You are our best and our finest. Thanks for being part of our
community.
De Weerd: Mr. President?
Rountree: Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: I appreciate the chief doing this. I kind of reminded him that it's been a long
time since we have seen our officers here in this Council chambers and there is a lot of
new faces that we have added over the last several years and, fortunately, I haven't met
each and every one of you through my daughter, but I was starting to believe I was
meeting the entire police force through her. So, I'm glad I'm meeting you in better
circumstances. But we appreciate what you do every day. On behalf of our citizens, we
value the service that you gave our community, that you give our citizens a feeling of
safety and we are seeing over studies how much people not only choose a community
in which they want to live in, but can really relate and identify with that community,
because of that feeling of safety. It's first and foremost in their minds, certainly as
parents, but also our -- our aging community as well. So, I'd like to thank you for your --
what you do for our community and I did get a wave the other day, unsolicited, and so I
told Jeff fhings are looking good. But we appreciate you coming down.
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Mr. President. I had the pleasure of riding along with Mr. Vogt there and when
they offer to take you on a bar cfieck, either get ear plugs or don't go anymore. It's
pretty wild. I can tell you we have got some awful good officers. I'm glad they are with
our city.
De Weerd: Not awful officers, but --
Meridian City Council Special Workshop
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Bird: They are awful good. Very, very good officers. And we got a Sergeant Fuchs that
don't mind pulling me over when he needs to. Anyway, thank you, gentlemen. I
enjoyed riding with you and I'm going to ride with you more. You guys are first class
employees and I appreciate your work. Thank you.
Zaremba: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I just want to, one, welcome you all to Meridian and congratulations on your
promotions. But also thank you all for choosing Meridian and staying with Meridian.
We are very proud to have you and every time ~I pass one of you on the street going
someplace, you always look professional. and on business and, like I say, I'm proud to
have you all here. Thank you all.
De Weerd: Mr. President, I--
Rountree: Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: -- guess closing statement, I see next time I see Sheriff Smifih I will duck,
because it sounds like a number of you are from Canyon County. I will watch myself
when I go to Blaine County in case I have retaliation from fhere. And ISP, I'm starting
get a little paranoid as I go out in the world. But ifs nice to see the experience and --
that you had. You had good training grounds to bring those talents to our community.
So, again, welcome.
Rountree: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Again, thank you all. Chief, you may want to
have some kind of a raffle and the prize is the officers can draw lots and see which
councilman fhey want to take on a ride.
De Weerd: That's not the loser.
Rountree: That's not the loser.
De Weerd: Winners.
Rountree: Maybe for them, but we are winners. It's difficult I know fime-wise for us to
find you, schedule fime, whatever, but I know Councilman B'ird has done that. I would
like to do that. And I think the rest of the councilmen would as well. So, if you would
take the lead fhat and --
Lavey: I can do that.
Rountree: -- and get us -- get us a date wit~h an exciting evening that would be great.
Meridian City Council Special Workshop
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Page 17 of 68
Lavey: I can do that and there is no real fime limit that -- you actually can do an hour.
You can actually come sit in briefing if that's all you want to do. Or you can ride all night
long if you fall asleep. If you start to fall asleep, fhey won't take you through the bars.
One last fhing I'd like to point out is it's because of the leadership from this group in front
of ine, fhe Mayor and Council, that we have the quality officers that we have. Due to
some -- you know, some recent changes and not so recent changes, it's given me the
ability to not only attract good quality people, but to keep them. So, I believe that we
also owe you fhanks as well. So, thank you.
Rountree: Well -- and I`II fhrow that back. It's because of your information and our
ability to communicate that makes it happen. And that's what we are here for.
Lavey: Then, it's us working together to make it happen. Thank you.
Bird: Thank you all.
De Weerd: You don't have to stay the entire meeting.
Rountree: You're certainly welcome to.
Bird: Now you have to go to work.
De Weerd: Alfhough Mark Taylor does -- thank you.
Rountree: Next item, the Fire Department. Chief.
Silva: Good evening, Mayor, Members of the Council. What we'd like to do is provide
you with a briefing of a memorandum of mutual intent that the rural fire district has acted
upon and we would like to share the content of that intent. Essentially, to kind of just
give you a quick overview and I'm sure Bill Nary wil
essentially, as'you know, that the rural district has b
building of our fire stations three, four, and fi~
Traditionally, they have participated to the extent of
budget has come from our rural district and if we wer
used -- the funding formula that's been used in
population assessed value, if they were really trying
actual percentage participation that they would be
want to kind ot build on this, but,
;en a major funding partner in the
e and also our training tower.
20 percent of the fire department
; to look at the formula that's been
rhe past, which is a function of
to look at that very carefully, that
required to participate would be
roughly 17 percent. So, again, the Meridian Rural Fire District has been a very
important funding partner and led to the success of the Meridian Fire Department and
with that, what we are requesting is the consideration and the presentation of a
memorandum of intent, that in the event that as the rural district is absorbed into the city
through annexations and the assessed value swings toward fhe -- toward the city as
those areas are absorbed and annexed into the city, it may become more difficult in the
future for fhe Meridian rural district to participate at that level in the future. With that
understanding, they would like to make sure that it's an intent of this seated Council and
the intent of the present rural fire district commissioners that there is an intent that the
Meridian City Council Special Workshop
May 13, 2008
Page 18 of 68 '
city would, then, at some point perhaps be willing to entertain the concept of trading
those real assets for future services to the remaining portions of the district when it
becomes difficult for the Meridian Rural Fire District to maintain that percentage
participation in our funding. So, that's kind of a brief overview on what the -- what the
intent of this resolution that's being presented before you this evening and I'm sure that
Chairman Rich Green would like to elaborate just a little bit on the intent of that
memorandum.
Rountree: Thank you. Rich.
Green: Madam Mayor, Members of Gity Council, my name is Rich Green, I'm the
chairman of the rural fire protection district. Basically, the memorandum of intent kind of
covers what we have been talking about. It has always been the goal of the
commission to find a way to assist the city in building, you know, buildings and stations
and manpower, always with the intent that if it got to the point where we could no longer
sustain services, fhat we would, then, intend to sell back to the city fhe stations and
equipment, so that we could continue service to the outlying areas that may not ever be
taken into fhe city. That's pretty much in a nutshell what we are talking about. I'll
answer any questions if you have them. I know that John Fitzgerald and Bill Nary have
been in communication, so --
Rountree: Any questions of Rich?
Bird: I have none.
Zaremba: It's not a quesfion, just an observation as I'm learning more and more about
the relationship. We -- fhe city has been a beneficiary of more than -- than generosity
on the part of the rural fire district and I think it is wise for both parties to have the
memorandum of understanding, so that the history is established and people know at a
future time what we were thinking at this time.
Green: And ifs never -- it's not the intent to bind anybody to anything. We understand
that, you know, you can't obligate other councils or other commissioners, it's just
historically -- to have something historically fihere that shows what the -- what the
thought process was during these years when we are building stations and adding
equipment and manpower.
Rountree: Bill, you had a comment?
Nary: Mr. President, I was, actually, just going to comment on what Commissioner
Green just said. I mean when I reviewed fihe document and contacted Mr. Fitzgerald,
their counsel, you know, that was our -- firom the city's perspective that would be my
only concern was that long term obligation. That is not what this document's about. It is
-- it really is to establish an historical precedent for what has gone on in this relationship
and what the future intent is today of continuing with that relationship. It doesn't mean
that the percentages may not change and the amount of financial responsibility of the
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Page 19 of 68
district won't change, but how that's paid, the intent is today to simply establish that, that
can be compensated to the city in equipment, personal property, real estate, or
whatever to make that difference, because there will always -- almost always a
likelihood will exist that portions of the district will be outside the city limits and so there
will always be the need to maintain that relationship, but this doesn't bind the city into
anyfhing, it simply just establishes from the district's perspective and the city's what the
parties' intent were and I think it's a logical next step in this partnership. I think it seems
like a reasonable step from where we have been to where we are going to the future.
Rountree: Any further comments, questions? This is for discussion. The next action
on this is to see a memorandum or a resolution or both?
Nary: Mr. President, Members of the Council, Madam Mayor, yeah, we would bring this
memorandum back after the district commissioners have approved it and signed off on
it and we bring that back in front of the Council.
Rountree: Okay. Very good.
Green: Thank you very much for your time. I appreciate it.
Rountree: Thank you. Next item on the agenda. Public Works. Tom.
Barry: Thank you, Mr. President, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Tom Barry
with the Public Works Department. I have two budget amendments before you this
evening for your consideration. The first budget amendment, to increase the
wastewater treatment plant operafional and maintenance services with CH2M Hill OMI.
This contract was approved in -- on April 1 st by the Council of this year for operation
and maintenance services for the wastewater treatment plant. The original agreement
was -- for approval was for 35,000 dollars for such services. The Public Works
Department is requesting an increase by 11,000 dollars to this contract to a maximum
not to exceed of 46,000 dollars for the overall contract. This would allow management
for the duration of the -- of this month, May, and provide some training for staff at the
treatment plant in -- in reference to fihe services provided under the scope. With that, I
will ask if there is any questions with regard to the budget amendment and be happy to
address those.
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: Any questions? No questions?
Bird: I can make a motion if you want me to.
Rountree: Go ahead.
Bird: Mr. President?
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Rountree: Mr. B'ird.
Bird: I move that we approve the budget amendment for wastewater treatment plant
operation assistance with CH2M Hill for 11,000 dollars.
Zaremba: Second.
Rountree: It's been moved and seconded to approve the budget amendment for 11,000
dollars to a total amount not to exceed 46,000 dollars. All those in favor? Opposed?
Oh, we better do roll call.
Bird: Yeah, I was going to say --
Rountree: Roll call vote, please.
Roil-Call: B'ird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, absent.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Rountree: Next item, Tom.
Barry: Thank you, Mr. President. The second budget amendment Public Works has for
your consideration is an amendment to create a city-wide construction project manager
position. This position would plan, coordinate, direct and oversee a wide variety of city-
wide capital construction projects, services, and activities. Would also provide
construction related over-sight services for all departments within the city. It would
insure that those projects are coordinated and completed within schedules and budgets,
while adhering to local, state, and federal standards, environmental and construction
and safety guidelines and best management practices. The city currently outsources
much of its construction project management on a project-by-project basis. This
practice is costly and leads to inconsistencies in standards often and in missed
opportunities for coordination of multiple capital projects. We believe that bringing this
service in-house will insure tha# city-wide projects are coordinated, that uniform
standards of service levels are consistently applied and we believe will save our citizens
money. The position would be managed by Public Works. The funding for the position
would be split between a variety of different departments ufilizing the services of the
construction project manager. Amount for 2008 would be for $29,747.09 for a three
month period of service for the fiscal year 2008, after which the fiscal year '09 budget
base would be adjusted for ongoing operating expenses for this position. With fhat I will
turn it over for questions for the Council.
Rountree: Any questions for Tom?
Rountree: No questions.
Bird: Mr. President?
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Page 21 of 68
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Yeah. I don't have really a question, I have -- I have some concern on this. I think
construction manager putting up a 100,000 square foot building is not the
knowledgeable guy that's out running a hundred foot of sewer. You're talking about two
different types of construction. I don't know if you're going to find one person that can
do this type of stuff and my thought on construction management would be strictly on
the wastewater treatment deal and some kind of an engineering person that knew
infrastructure from the sewer and water side and -- because that's where your -- most of
your building is going. After City Hall's done we probably will have an addition to -- to
the police stafion and maybe a-- a firing range, but I don't see in the Fire Department
they built anymore -- if it's like -- been like the last three, the rural has done that and
they have hired it and everybody is satisfied with fihe way they have been doing it and
been saving money. So, I don't know if we -- I don't know if we want to go in and call
this a city-wide project manager, because I-- you don't see the same contractor or fhe
same architectural professionals or engineering professionals on building projects that
you do on infrastructure projects. It's always been my idea to have somebody at Public
Works to oversee all fhe sewer and the wastewater treatment plant additions and stuff,
but I don't think that same person, unless we are very lucky, is going to be qualified to
oversee 100,000 square foot building. That's my only concern. I do believe we need
one, don't get me wrong, but where -- what's his scope of work I do have a question on.
Rountree: Tom.
Barry: Mr. President. Mr. Bird, I appreciate your comments. Hopefully, this will provide
some clarification that the consfiruction manager would not be doing design or
engineering and also would not be doing inspection. Those would be conducted --
those activities would be conducted by different personnel within the city, particularly
Public Works. We have staff for that. This position would be geared more towards
managing the overall project to meet fime schedule, budget issues, to coordinate
resources, to coordinate against other projects, other agencies, and I believe that would
be consistent aaross a variety of different disciplines, because this person isn't -- isn't
going to be doing the design and engineering and inspection, there are -- there is a lot
of opportunity for us to have a single individual to coordinate those activities at a project
management live that are separate from the engineering design, construction -- or not
construction, but inspection components. So, you're right, it does take a talented
individual to be able to manage those projects, but the elements of project
management, in and of itself, are applicable across disciplines and that's kind of how I
see this position being -- it's managing the projects, not necessarily design -- or not
designing and not inspecting or engineering them.
Bird: But -- Mr. President.
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Meridian City Council Special Woricshop
May 13, 2008
Page 22 of 68
Bird: And maybe we are -- maybe I'm going a little deep -- and I agree, they are not
going to do any of the design or any of that kind of stuff, but as a project manager, if we
were building this over here, they would be running the subs and stuff. Well, that takes
-- fhat's a different type of building fihan the guy that's out there running the wastewater
treatment plant or running five or six miles of sewer. That was what I was going at. And
I realize they wouldn't be doing any of the design or anything like that, you sfill have
your professional people doing that. But they would be overseeing your subcontractors.
Barry: Correct.
Bird: And there is different subcontractors. Building a building is a lot different than
putting infrastructure in.
De Weerd: Mr. President?
Rountree: Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: I guess when we talked about this last fall, it -- it really was not to
necessarily be the general contractor, it's going to be more an oversight in the time
schedules and the contracts and the budgeting aspect and those and I believe fhat's
what Tom is talking about and not the detail, I believe, Keith, is what you're talking
about. There would still be that general contractor on hand that their person would hold
accountable to fhose subcontractors. So, you have a different level of experience, Mr.
Bird, than certainly I do, but one of the things we really wanted to address were
someone fhat was knowledgeable to the construction arena in contracts and having that
contract oversight and making sure that change orders were followed and adhered to,
knew what those change orders were about technically and was kind of that clearing
house fo that. That was my understanding of the -- fihe project managing fhat would be
going on. Is that --
Barry: Yes, Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: Okay.
Bird: So, what -- Mr. President, I'm sorry.
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: So, what you're talking about is this guy is just another layer of bureaucracy. We
actually will hire a construction manager to build a building or to run a-- a general
contractor to run a-- the plant or a building out there or the infrastructure or something;
am I-- is that what I'm getting?
Barry: No, sir, fihat would not be the intent.
Bird: See, that's -- to me it says a construction project manager.
Mecidian City Council Special Workshop
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Page 23 of 68
Barry: Right.
Bird: That's exactly what Pefira is supposed to be doing over here. And that -- we are
going to hire one guy to do that; right?
Barry: Well, Mr. Bird, I appreciate your comments. I would ask that you liken it to the
services that our purchasing agent provides as it relates to being a liaison befinreen the
city and our design team and our construcfiion team as it relates to putting all those
pieces in place and bringing forward those project components and keeping the project
on sehedule and on time and on budget and insuring that standards are met and
insuring that all of the components associated with the project are done in a timely
fashion and move us toward an outcome as it relates to overall project. A construction
manager -- maybe ifs just a difference in understanding from the terms. As I see it, it is
the individual that would -- we wouldn't be doing fhe design, we would take the design --
say, for example, the construction manager would provide -- would pick up the project
from say fihe Parks Department and the Parks Department might have a playground that
they want to construct or a ball fiield that they want to construct. What they would do is
go out and design that, either in-house with services or consult that out. They get the
design, potentially turn that over to the Publia Works, for example, to this position, who
would, then, go after maybe easements, permits, seek rights of way, those sorts of
things, put together the bid documents, go out for bid wifh fhe help of the purchasing
agent, manage the consultant -- the construcfion documents, manage the change
orders, insure that the resources are on staff and that the requirements for construction
management are met by the contractors and subcontractors. Depending upon the size
and seope of the project, you might have a situation where you have a city construction
project manager and, then, a liaison with a general, for example. That's conceivable.
The City Hall project is a good example of that. I don't know that we will be having a
project that large come through in the foreseeable future, but certainly there seems to
be some overall need in the city to consolidate and coordinate our construction activities
on a city-wide basis and that's the intent for the position.
Zaremba: Mr. President?
Rountree: Further comments?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: My instinct is fhat this is a position that will help alleviate -- and I realize the
City Hall is, probably, as you say, one of the biggest projects that we will do all at once.
But during that process there was a time where, for lack of a better word, what I would
call just contract administration was taking up almost fhe full fime of Ted Baird, Will
Berg, and Keith Watts, all three of them, just doing contract administration kind of stuff
and my instinct is that this it is not necessarily adding another layer of bureaucracy, but
Meridian City Council Special Workshop
May 13, 2008
Page 24 of 68
having a focused, dedicated person that can understand processes, has some
knowledge of construction practices, whether they, in fact, go out and lay pipe or wire or
not, but they have knowledge of those and is really a point person for any general or
subconfiractor that we hire. Am I interpreting fhat correctly?
Barry: Yes. Yes, sir.
Zaremba: Okay. I certainly see the need for that.
Rountree: Steve, you had a comment?
Siddoway: Thank you, Mr. President. Just a comment. I believe that this position could
be a great benefit to the Parks and Recreation Department, if it is a shared position.
When I came on, one of the discussion items was the construction management side of
things for park-related projects and if fihis position were shared, certainly, I would see
this person as someone who could do some construction management on fhose
projects. In one of our next agenda items we are going to be talking about the Settler's
Village Square project and I was directed in the earliest part of that process to budget
for construction -- a construction manager as part of that project. Just looking over the
three phrases I'm going to present to you tonight, fhe first phase has construction
management at ten percent of the total as 47,000, phase finro at 88,900, and phase
three at 76,000 just for the consfiruction management services alone and those would
be savings to fhis project if there was a construction manager in house that could take
those on. So, I just wanted to offer that up based on some previous discussions that I
thought we could share this position, rather than try and bring someone specifically into
the parks department for this, but this was an opportunity for a shared venture that
someone could be housed ~in Public Works and that would serve their needs, as well as
my own. So, thank you.
Rountree: Thank you. Mr. Bird.
Bird: Oh.
Rountree: Any further comment?
Bird: No.
Rountree: I'm going to chime in at this point. It seems to me there is some confusion
here. And, honestly, I'm having a struggle with this. If we are intending to support
Steve as he indicated --
Bird: That's a full-time deal.
Rountree: -- that's a full-time job. Again, you get back into this situation are you the
construction manager going out and getting subs, making sure that they are doing the
work, or are we working wifih the contractor, or is fhis just a-- strict a fiscal person. My
Meridian City Council Special Workshop
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Page 25 of 68 '
direcfion at this point would be if we are going here wifih this kind of project, I think our
message needs to be more clear. I think we need more precision as to what the job
function is going to be and I think we need a different title. I think what I'm hearing, a lot
of this is related to fiscal and accountability. The other thing that I kind of heard a tweak
of in the beginning of the discussion is -- is expediting contracts, possibly. I would like
to put another twist on that is maybe expediting applications. Something for our
customers to take advantage of. So, my recommendation is let's -- let's give this a little
more thought, let's put a little finer pencil on what it is we are trying to accomplish and
bring it back. That would be my recommendation. Any comments, ridicule, whatever?
Bird: I agree with you. I'm not voting for it tonight. It's a no vote on my part.
De Weerd: Mr. President?
Rountree: Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: I guess we will dust off the notes from last fall and where we talked about
fhe value of this and ask Mr. Watts to make sure he's here to participafe in the
discussion and would love to -- to refresh the memory of --
Rountree: All of us.
De Weerd: -- why we started down this road to begin with.
Rountree: I think that would be good.
De Weerd: Certainly we can bring a couple of examples of where this -- this particular
type of a posifion cannot only expedite the time line on a project, but also streamline the
process and I think, though, if you ask on an internal or external, those are two different
things. I don't see how this could influence it, but we will certainly sit down and talk
about that, too.
Rountree: Okay.
Zaremba: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Would it be -- is it a matter of the title? Would it be -- would it be more
acceptable to call it something like the contract administrator'?
Rountree: Mr. Zaremba, from my observation and hearing tonight, that's one
component. But I'm hearing different people explain different job activities of this
person. So, folks have a different understanding of what this person may or may not do
and I want to make sure that we don't have any false expectations.
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Page 26 of 68
Barry:. Mr. President?
Rountree: Tom.
Barry: I would be happy to pull a job description for fhis particular position. I think that
would add some clarification for the Council and the Mayor regarding the services this
position might be able to provide the city, as well as various departments within the city.
We -- we have a preliminary draft put together. We are still refining that. I'm happy to
work with other department leads in making sure that's reflective of -- of exactly the
specificity that you're after and, then,. present that to you at a later date for
consideration.
Rountree: Appreciate it. Thank you.
Barry: My pleasure.
Rountree: Further comments? Very good. Thanks, Tom.
Barry: Thank you, sir.
Rountree: Next item. Parks and Rec, Meridian Youth Baseball. Mr. Siddoway.
Welcome, Trace. Are you going to get up here, too?~
Leighton: When it's my fiurn.
Rountree: Okay.
De Weerd: Yeah. He loves public speaking.
Siddoway: Mr. President, Mayor, Members of the Council, Trace Leighton and I are
here tonight to talk about the Meridian Youth Baseball project. One of the things I was
asked to do by the Council at a previous presentation was to get my arms around the
project and come back to you with a report on the cost associated with this project, as
well as the donafiions that have been acquired as part of this project. Next slide, please.
There we go. Just a reminder, it's in Settler's Park and over on the west side. Settler's
Park you see the complex of eight baseball and softball fields that is the complex that
we are talking about. It was built in partnership with Meridian Youth Baseball and
softball with Trace Leighton here at the head of that effort. Next. Our budget for
construction -- I guess you got to hit it one more time -- was just over 2.2 million dollars
was the budget that had been put toward this over the last several years. Next slide,
please. Our total expenses that have gone foward fhis project, the majority of it was
toward the McAlvain construction project -- keep going, please. At 2,031,385 dollars.
There was a Ustick Road improvement done a couple of years ago out in front of this
project at 60,860 dollars. There is miscellaneous items, mostly utility related, Idaho
Power, ACHD permits, the design work, surveying, soil testing, signage, for 41,596, for
a total spent to date on fhis project of 2,133,841 dollars. So, we are under budget. This
Meridian City Council Special Workshop
May 13, 2008
Page 27 of 68
is the slide that impresses me the most, to be honest. The donations to this project to
date on top of the amount that you saw spent in expenses is just over 1.4 million dollars.
There has been just over 380,000 dollars donated in cash donations. The remainder
has been in-kind donations of just over a million dollars. They go for labor -- if you will
keep going -- materials and architeature and equipment use. So, if you -- I'm going to
let Trace talk here, because this is the list of individuals and organizations that make up
that 1.4 million dollar donation toward this project and it's -- it's a pretty impressive list of
people who rallied to support this cause. So, would you take a moment, Trace.
Leighton: You guys want me to read fhem all and tell you what they did or do you want
to just sit there and read them.
Bird: Not really.
Leighton: A lot of these people -- the majority of them don't want -- that's why it's in this
form where there is no money next to them. A lot of them don't want it public how much
money some of them donated. Some of them donated hundreds of thousands of dollars
to it, some of them donated 5,000 dollars to it, depending on what their scope of work
was. The reason why they don't want that public is they don't want to get hit by every
charity in the world saying, hey, you donated 200 grand to Meridian Youth Baseball and
expect fhem to do it to their organization. A lot of these --
Bird: Idaho Sporting Goods is one fhat --
Leighton: Idaho Sporting Goods, I'll tell you what they did, they donated all fhe bases,
pitching rubbers, home plates, at cost, which turned out to be about 4,800 bucks. So, I
mean it all -- it all adds up and a lot of these companies and people and stuff, a lot of
this went into the buildings out there. Some of it went into fhe field construction, some
of it went into both, and to be honest with you, a lot of these people are business
acquaintances of mine or friends of mine and a lot of them don't even want to see me
coming anymore, so --
De Weerd: It's not because of this project, Trace.
Leighton: Yes, it is.
Siddoway: So, if you add up our total expenses with the donations, what we have out
there is a complex with a value of over 3.5 million dollars and it cost the city just over
2.1 million dollars to construct it. That means that over -- that about 40 percent of the
value of that complex was donated and to me that's a-- that's a tremendous statement
and an incredible value for the taxpayers of this community. Next.
Leighton: I just got an e-mail from a friend of mine that lives down in Utah and I can't
remember what town it is down fihere by Salt Lake, but they are proposing to build a
complex and he sent it to me as a joke of, hey, if you want to build another one you can
get on board with fihis. They just put out the' bid, a seven field complex with concession
Meridian Ciry Council Special Workshop
May 13, 2008
Page 28 of 68
buildings and bathrooms -- fhe land's already purchased. The parking lot's bigger,
about double our parking lot, but their proposed budget for that project right now is five
million bucks and that just kind of tells you where we are at.
Siddoway: One of the quesfions was about the schedule and how it relates to the
original contract, so I have gone back and looked at the original agreement. It did show
phase two, which was behind schedule that was supposed to have been completed by
September of '07 that includes the landscaping and the first restroom/concessions
building. That -- the landscaping is now complete and the restroom/concessions
building is nearly complete. I think the story to take away here, though, is that second
bullet fhat the phase three, which was not scheduled until September of 2009, is on
track to be finished later this year. And Trace has been working hard and agreed to
step up and move that -- fhat clubhouse building where the maintenance facility is and
the additional restroom and concessions up ahead. So, overall, we are on track to be
completed ahead of schedule.
Leighton: Yeah. We are pretty done with the concession buildings. Well, I-- the
concession -- the big one is done, minus the bathrooms. We have _got to put the
bathroom fixtures in. We have got all the bathroom fixtures to go in, I have got
everything, except for the -- and I just remembered this the other day, that toilet paper
and stuff like that. Holders. We are just -- I'm trying to find a plumber that I can beg to
hook all that stuff up for me for nothing. So, if you guys got any suggestions -- Mr. Bird.
Bird: I might. To be serious, I might.
Leighton: Oh. Sorry. Extravaganza. We hosted that April 26. We have got over 1,400
kids -- I don't know the exact number, but we have got over 1,400 kids in fhe league this
year and them and the kids and all their families attended that and it was -- we have
always hosted it at Fuller Park when that was our home deal, but we had run out of
room and we would always get complaints from the neighbors about parking and so this
year when I agreed to let them have it here -- we weren't supposed to open the other
fields or any of that until May 1 st and I agreed to let them host it there and fhey like
tripled the size of the amount of blow up jump -- kids jump things and slides and all that
and we kind of guessed maybe we had over 5,000 people there and, personally, I think
that I saw close to a hundred people that didn't even belong to our league that came
either out of fhe neighborhood or were driving down fihe road and saw those big jumps
and just came in fhere and had a great time. So, I did get a lot of comments from
people that had been in our league for a long time and new people to the league how
impressed they are with the facility fhat we have got built there, so --
Siddoway: So, our next steps -- we need to complete the restroom/concessions
buildings that are out there. We have got some warranty items that we are following up
on with McAlvain on some of the asphalt and landscaping. We have got a flag pole to
install out there. We are going to be adding -- adding bleachers. So, there is odds and
ends that are moving forward, but by and large we have a completed facility out there
and I'm certainly pleased to come on board and see this type of partnership. I think it's
Meridian Ciry Council Special Workshop
May 13, 2008
Page 29 of 68
an incredible value. I can tell you we have been working this last week on an
application to submit this project for an AIC award and as we looked around for
comparable facilities we had to go as far away as Washington to find anything
comparable for tournament style facilities and already having this here and open just
this year, is attracting tournaments that are bringing people to Meridian from not only all
over ldaho, but from other states as well. And I don't know if you want to talk about
some of them that are coming this summer --
Leighton: Well, I warned you, Tammy, that if we built this we'd get a lot of tournaments.
So far this year we are going to have a tournament Memorial weekend that I think is
going to be about 60 to 90 teams. Depends on if the legion board jumps on and takes
the older kids. That's a new tournament for the league. We are going to have the Dairy
Days tournament, which will be probably close to a hundred teams again. We were
awarded state tournaments for -- shoot -- 13 to 15 -- and I think 11 year olds -- boys.
State tournaments, which will bring in approximately 20 teams from throughout the state
for fihose two tournaments. We were awarded regionals for ten year old boys, ten year
old girls, 12 year old girls, and 14 year old girls, which those tournaments will bring in
close to 50 teams from -- and that's regionals. And so throughout Washington, Canada,
Oregon, Montana, Wyoming -- I think that might be it. So, I think the hotels and the
restaurants and stuff will be happy and very busy through -- starting Memorial Day, but
especially throughout the middle of July when all those regional tournaments are here.
Bird: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I want to ask a question. How many kids did you say you got going this year?
Leighton: Over 1,400. I`m not sure the exact count. I'm not supposed to be part of the
board anymore, but I am.
Bird: What age -- are we talking about Babe Rufh down?
Leighton: Four through 15.
Bird: Four through 15?
Leighton: Boys and girls. I know that our softball program has got huge. You know,
when I first started in fhe league we had like 24 teams and, then, we went down to as
few as three and I have heard that they have got 22 teams again now. So, it's -- softball
is really kicking in. Boise State is starting their -- you know, their own softball team has
really gotten girls pumped up to want to start doing that.
Bird: Fourteen hundred kids, approximately, for the whole program?
Leighton: Over 1,400.
Meridian City Council Special Workshop
May 13, 2008
Page 30 of 68
Siddoway: That's our presentation and we will stand for any questions you might have.
Rountree: Thanks, Steve and Trace, again. Can't thank you enough for what you.and
your family have done and for your time to get this accomplished. Add anofher to your
hundred people that didn't have folks in your league that was there. I was there. Your
extravaganza was great. It was a terrific event. Kids were having a great time. Their
parents were having a great time. And heard comments about, you know, how nice it
was and it really and truly was. It reminded me that one of the concepts we had for that
area when we jumped into it was potenfially a farmer's market or that sort of thing in that
center area when it wasn't being utilized for baseball and it would work perfectly for that
as well. So, anot~her side benefit after the baseball season is over. But, again, thank
you for all your effort.
Leighton: Thanks, Charlie. I want to thank you guys -- some of you guys were here
when we started this, some of you are new since then, but you guys have done nothing
but supported me and Meridian Youth Baseball of doing it and, you know, I don't how
many of you guys know Jerron Moore. I know Keith knows him, but, you know, he's -- I
have seen him a couple times and he's commented to me that he's the one that built the
Opfiimist complex for the city of Boise and he's commented to me a couple times how he
wishes the city of Boise's city council and mayor would have got behind him at the
Optimist field as much as -- you know, financially as much as you guys have and I mean
just the coolest thing and the only way I can have you guys actually see what really is
the coolest thing to me is go out there on a Saturday and just walk through there and
see, you know -- not 1,400 kids at once, but see all eight of those fields going and just
the litfle brofhers and sisters playing out in the grass, you know, that aren't old enough
to play yet and it's just an awesome deal to be able to go out there for me and I want to
thank all you guys very much for that.
Bird: Trace, I agree with you on that. I appreciate what you have done and brought
forward. Boise has stepped to the plate this time, our second bunch, to 300,000, but
that was a true partnership that we went and raised the money and I know that's what
you wanted to do here, too, and it -- right now raising money is pretty dang tough, so --
but what you did I appreciate very much so. We have got a nice complex out there that
we can be very very proud of. I will tell you that more than 1,400 kids from Meridian,
Idaho, use the Optimist football fields, I will tell you that, and this Councilman is one for
helping the Optimists, too.
De Weerd: Mr. President?
Rountree: Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: I guess something I said before and bears repeating is because of the
tenacity of Trace and certainly his family, this project is where it is today and it's the
quality of project that it turned out. So, again, our hat's off to you. You had a dream
and you worked your butt off making sure that it came to fruition and I think I can speak
Meridian City Council Special Workshop
May 13, 2008
Page 31 of 68
on behalf of everyone up here and the parks department, it's been greatly appreciated,
the energy and compassion, the things that motivated you to stick with it, thank you,
Trace. It was -- it's an amazing facility.
Bird: I agree.
Leighton; And for you guys that don't know -- I don't know if it was Keith's deal, but
Keith -- I looked back, Keith, and I think it was 2002 you and Kuntz came to our board
meeting and the ones that got me --
De Weerd: I was there, too.
Leighton: Were you there? Yeah. Tammy was there. That's right. The three of them
came and that's what got me fired up and -- yeah. At the time we had 15 members fired
up and we got her done.
Bird: Well, you know, Trace, to go back to it -- excuse me. Mr. President
Rountree: Go ahead, Mr. Bird.
Bird: That's what -- fhat's what the Setter's was built for, because we knew we was
outgrowing -- thanks to this guy right here, we had Fuller Park and, of course, our group
built the legion field and we had that, but we knew we was outgrowing it and so when
we had a chance to buy Settler's -- and I wish we -- I wish the people would come in
and offer us 58 acres at that price again, you know, but I don't think we will ever see
that. And that's what it was supposed to be was a sports complex and, then, you know,
we come out and I had a dream, you definitely, you definitely had a dream, and you
took it and did it and fhat's -- I appreciate it. I can't thank you enough. I mean as a
cifiizen of Meridian. That's 1,400 bucks -- or 1.4 million that you spent is taxpayer
savings and I appreciate it, Trace, for everyfhing you have done. And I know your kids
are through, but you will one of these days have grand kids going through.
Leighton: Hopefully not for awhile.
Bird: Not for awhile.-
Leighton: Well, fhank you again.
Rountree: Thank you. You bet.
Siddoway: I was at a game just last night, because my son's one of the ones -- one of
the 1,400 in the league, so -- next, please. The next item that we are moving onto is
discussion about the Settler's Village Square project. I know that is one that I was
asked to look into by Councilman Rountree, Councilman Bird, and Dave Zaremba to
look into this and the funds were allocated to this as part of the -- the last budget cycle
and so we have -- I have been working on that since that discussion. So, next slide,
Meridian City Council Special Workshop
May 13, 2008
Page 32 of 68
please. Again, back to our Setfler's Park master plan. We are now talking about the
area down in fihe soufheast corner, including -- well, if you can go to the next slide, I
have a blow up of it. The tournament style horseshoe pits, fhe tennis courts, and public
plaza and water features and things that are put in on the corner there at Ustick and
Meridian Road. I'm sure you are probably -- possibly even more familiar with this than I
am. This seems to have a history going back several years in the development of the
concept plan that have led to the construction documents that I now have. Next slide.
So, this spring we have been working on those construction documents and receiving
detailed cost estimates based on those. We have also, if you have been out to that
corner recently, noticed that a portion of those funds for this year were dedicated to the
barn removal and since the actual corner improvements of the plaza are probably a few
years away, we have put in the grass to at least get that greened up, so it wasn't just
sitting in dirt for several years.
De Weerd: That's appreciated.
Siddoway: So, we now have -
documents for -- for that area.
Square project is just over 2.8 mil
fact that I currently have 459,000
done is just taken a first cut a
discussion and some direction aft~
pencils and come back to you wit
work in phases from east -- or, sc
Youth Baseball parking lot, which
as the horseshoe pits and, fhen, p
Next slide. please. You have -- I
• we have just recently received the construction
The approximate total cost for the Settler's Village
ion dollars. Next. So, I have been looking into the
and how do I-- how do I phase this. What I have
id I'm only hoping tonight to just generate some
~r which Councilman Zaremba and I will sharpen our
~ a final proposal. But the proposal in concept is to
rry, from west to east, up against the new Meridian
~its here. Get the first set of tennis courts in, as well
iase that in over the next few years toward the east.
qut on each of vour chairs at the beqinninq of fihis
meeting a detailed descripfion of fhese -- these phases, but we do have detailed cost
esfimates for them. As currently drawn, fhat phase one would be about 603,000,
second phase about 1.2 million, and the third phase just over one million, for a total of
about 2.8 million dollars. Just to point out, I have discovered that there has been
discussion about a structure as part of that plaza area, possibly in the future, and that
structure is not part of these cost esfiimates. The current estimate I have for that
structure -- it all depends on the size and scope of fhat structure, but if we were to do
somefhing to the -- along fhe lines of a facility that's in Barber Park, that would be about
a finro million,doilar structure. Next slide, please.
Bird: Mr. President, before he goes on.
Siddoway: Yeah.
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Steve, at phase one you have got the finro tennis courts. Those aren't -- are fhey
the lighted ones?
Meridian City Council Special Workshop
May 13, 2008
Page 33 of 68
Siddoway: They are not. Let's see. Can we go back to the overall -- right here. This is
fine. This is the competition -- or the championship court that would have the lights and
the additional bleachers sitting right here. It's just a single court, though.
Bird: Okay. And you say you have got four hundred and some fhousand?
Siddoway: Yes.
Bird: And it's 602,000? Have we had anymore impact fees come in -- of course, we are
down on revenue.
Siddoway: Yeah. We have not had enough additional -- to cover it at this point.
Somefhing that -- you know, if you -- that I think maybe that we should look into as -- in
order to bring something back -- that's an answer I would want to have, because option
one is do we cut things down to match the existing budget and option two is do we
increase the budget to match the logical phase.
Bird: I think we need to get started on phase one, to be truthful with you, and how we
can finance is -- if you have got 400,000, we can pick up a couple hundred thousand.
Charlie and I have got a dear friend that wants --
Rountree: Tennis player.
Bird: -- tennis courts. And every time we see him --
De Weerd: I want a new house.
Bird: So do I, but --
De Weerd: I want a swimming pool.
Zaremba: I was just wondering if there is a Meridian youth tennis league.
Siddoway: There certainly is tennis organizations within fihe community and we are
partnered with one of them to -- as part of our summer activity guide to do tennis
lessons and they are certainly looking for a home. They .will be using school district
facilities this summer to teach their lessons. But some.thing like this certainly will have a
demand.
Zaremba: I was looking for donations the same way --
Siddoway: Ah, yes.
Zaremba: -- the youth baseball league --
Rountree: Steve?
Meridian City Council Special Workshop
May 13, 2008
Page 34 of 68
Siddoway: Yes.
Rountree: I'm wondering about the competition horseshoe area. What kind of demand
is fhere for that type of facility? I know there is some -- not necessarily competition type
pits at Storey Park and there is some -- we have some at Fuller Park and I never see
anybody using them. I never have seen anybody in any of those things, so --
Siddoway: I know there is a demand, but I'd want to come back to you to really have
fhe answer to that. I know that there is a genfleman who is in fairly constant contact
with our office who has at least a regional, if not a national tournament that he's trying to
bring here for horseshoes and he continues to ask when will that facility be available.
But in terms of the -- the ongoing demand for that, that's something I could bring back to
you as part of a future discussion.
Rountree: I'd like to have an idea of what that investment is going to yield for us.
Siddoway: Okay.
Rountree: I don't see a lot of interest -- I don't see a lot of interest that Julia Davis has.
I would think probably the competition pits there in association with their tennis courts
and very rarely do you see much use of those when you're driving through fhat area.
So, just curious.
Siddoway: Okay. I will look into that.
Bird: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: On fhat same lines, I agree with -- with Charlie and he's right, I'd look into Boise
and also call Nampa. Their Lakeview they used to have competition horseshoes and it
was used quite a bit, but I never see it used anymore. In fact, I don't even know if the
pits are still there. So, check around. I-- I know one guy wants -- and I know who you
are talking about, I have been in contact with the guy that wants to throw a regional
tournament, but to spend all the money for one regional tournament might not be in our
best -- it might not be our best investment. I'm like Councilman Rountree, I'd like to
have a little more detail on the use of that.
S'iddoway: I can fell you that as far as what we have budgeted in phase one, it does not
include the roof structures and things that are envisioned for fihe horseshoe pits. We
have scaled those back a little bit, so that fhey are functional horseshoe pits, but don't
have all of the -- the night lighting and the canopies and things like that. We would see
those coming in the second phase as we have currently drawn it up. But right now we
are just building the courts and having them as functionai courts as part of the phase
one. ~
Meridian Ciry Council Special Workshop
May 13, 2008
Page 35 of 68
Bird: Steve, I like your phasing: I think this is a very good plan to get something done.
Siddoway: Could you go forward a couple slides, please? So, for phase one, the
current estimate is at 603,000 dollars. The budget for 2008 is 459,000 dollars. The
difference is 143,000. Actually, be slightly more fhan fhat, because in the green -- the
green up that we have done and the barn removal has -- is about 12,000 dollars. But
this gives you a good sense of the ballpark of the numbers we are dealing with. And I
have put some thought into, okay, how -- what can we do to make up that difference.
One would be to -- to see if there are some additional impact fees we could put towards
it. But if we need to go the other direction -- if you will go to the next slide, please. I
have a line item of 47,650 dollars for construction management in -- as part of that
600,000. If -- if the construction manager -- an external construction manager were not
needed, then, that would -- I would be able to save that amount. There is a shelter in
phase one that's 88,000 dollars. Those two together are the majority of that difference
at 136,000. Another idea to make up any difference that might be there -- I'm less
comfortable with it, but it's certainly a possibility, is removing some of the electrical work.
We could still run the conduit, but not place the area lights and pull out some of that, but
still run the conduit to the project. But if I could build that phase with the -- the area
lighting and things that it's designed to have, it would make me more comfortable. So, I
think the next slide is fhe last one. I'm just here to solicit some discussion and to, one,
give you an update on the work that I have done on trying to think about, you know, how
do we phase this, how do we use the budget fhat Council did appropriate towards this
project as part of this fiscal year. Would you like me to work with Councilman Zaremba,
sharpen our pencil, to meet the current budget? Would you like us to look into an
enhancement to build the full 600,000 dollar phase? Should I plan on an external
construction manager'? Would you like to -- are you willing to see the shelter removed
out of phase one, have it built in phase two? Questions like tha#. So, I would just seek
any comments you'd like to give me and, then, I will keep working and come back to you
with a proposal.
De Weerd: Mr. President?
Rountree: Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: I know that shelter is a pretty big savings, but there is just one shelter out at
that huge park and, you know, I-- I think that shelter -- the shelter is used quite often
and with all of the activity that's going at that park, I-- the shelters have great value and
so I would appreciate it if you and Councilman Zaremba could kind of take fhis and look
under rocks and bring back a recommendation to Council on how best to balance the
different needs of serving a pretty large park population.
Bird: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Meridian Ciry Council Special Workshop
May 13, 2008
Page 36 of 68
Bird: Steve, I would like to see -- I don't know how current your pricing is, but excluding
anything thaf's oil based, like your asphalt and stuff like thaf's going to not be cheap, but
everybody I have talked to -- and we found this out with our plaza bid, we come in way
under budget and I'm like the Mayor, I think you have got it phased perfect and I don't
want to see us short change anything. I really don't. I'd sooner -- I don't want to wait,
but, yet, in fhe same token, I'd sooner wait and get the phasing done right, each
phasing, because I think you have got it lined out perfect and -- but I think that we could
-- you know, the way bidding is going now -- and I see this continuing at least for
another six, eight months, this real slow down, there is a lot of contractors out there
fhat's very, very hungry and maybe we could do it. But I'm also like the Mayor, you and
Councilman Zaremba get together and let's see if we can't sharpen our pencil and
somehow make this fly.
Siddoway: Okay. But you'd like to see, though, the full phase one as currently drawn
up built?
Bird: Yeah.
Siddoway: Okay.
B'ird: I don't want to short change the phases.
Siddoway: Okay.
Bird: Because pretty soon you just start falling back and you're behind, you come to
phase three and you're finishing phase two.
Zaremba: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Just to chime in on that subject, that I know there are exceptions, but my
general instinct is if you can do everything that needs to be done in one area at once,
it's usually cheaper than trying to come back and retrofit it. Yeah, you can leave lights
out, but it's cheaper to do them as part of a project than it is to do it as a separate
contract a year from now. So, I appreciate thinking that a complete package should be
worked out somehow.
Siddoway: Okay.
Rountree: I concur in what's been said. I think we are fooling ourselves that we will get
it completed if we continue to do it incrementally. We are going to do it incrementally
anyway, but let's do an increment that works. And it's not going to be any cheaper than
the 604,000 a year from now.
Meridian City Council Special Workshop
May 13, 2008
Page 37 of 68
Siddoway: Right. Okay. Well, I will work on that. I will work with Tom Barry on the
construction manager slash contracts manager side of this and we will be back in front
of you, Thank you.
Item 6: CITY ORDINANCE / CODE REVIEW:
(a) Discussion of MCC 9-4-34 (Point of Liability for Maintenance)
(b) Discussion of Potential Vapor Capture Ordinance:
(c) Discussion of Covered Loads Ordinance
(d) Outdated Ordinances
(e) Animals wifhin City Limits
(fl Parking on City Streets
(g) Reconsideration Procedures
(h) Exemptions/Waivers of Licensing Fees
Rountree: Very good. If the Council will indulge me, I would like to move Item 6-B and
C up next. We have guests here this evening that probably don't want to have to sit
fhrough all the rest of this. So, if that's okay --
De Weerd: He's a Meridian resident.
Rountree: I know.
De Weerd: So I know he's been educated as all get out, uh?
Rountree: Come on up.
Herr: Yeah. Please.
Rountree: Every Tuesday night you're welcome.
Herr: There you go.
De Weerd: Mr. President?
Rountree: Madam Mayor. I guess I would introduce fhis. I know that Emily in our legal
department has been working on the covered load ordinance and also looking at the
vapor recovery, has been in communicafiion with Leonard and took direction to move
ahead and see how fihe city can take fihe lead in making sure the -- for new construction
Meridian City Council Special Workshop
May fi3, 2008
Page 38 of 68
for any -- any gas stations that are constructed from this day forward, have the
appropriate mechanisms on there to meet both phase one and phase -- or stage one,
stage two of the vapor recovery, rather than having to go back, eventually, whenever it
is in place to retrofit and absorbing additional costs at that point. Emily has started --
certainly we are well underway on the covered loads and since I wasn't at the Treasure
Valley Partnership, maybe Leonard can update us on his impression of how things went
on that. But also on the stage one fhat's going on with negotiated rule making with the
DEQ.
Rountree: Thank you. It's all yours.
Kerr: Madam Mayor, Mr. President and Members of the Council, thanks. For those who
don't know me, my name is Leonard Herr, I work for DEQ, I'm the air shed manager. I
guess first with the covered load ordinance, I was at the Treasure Valley partnership at
fheir last meeting where they presented a draft ordinance. There was a representative
from the -- I believe Associated General Contractors there. They had a few concerns
about it. They recognized a need for a covered load ordinance. They were a little
concerned about the impact on the general -- the impression I got from the mayors and
the commissioners was that this was going to go forward anyway. It was a recognized
need for it. There were uncovered loads driving by as they were talking, so that kind of
helped, too. So, I assume fhis is going to go forward quickly. That was my impression
from that. DEQ certainly is supportive of that ordinance. There is a somewhat vaguely
worded state law that's not enforced, so we see this as a very good public service. We
can't enforce that state law; we don't have the staff available to do that. As far as the
vapor recovery, we are in negotiative rule making to do a stage one vapor recovery
regulation in Idaho. The earliest this would take effect would be next summer. We see
the vapor recovery for gasoline stafiions as a huge issue in fihis valley. As you may
know, we have some very pressing ozone issues in the valley. We are in imminent
danger of violating the federal standard and it's probably going to occur, actually, this
year. Now, we do have a couple years where we can pull that standard back down and
maybe avoid a not attainment designation from the federal government and vapors from
gasoline is one of fhe prime components that form ozone. So, anything we can do to
get rid of fhose vapors is very good. And stage -- gasoline vapors from retail gasoline
stations makes up a significant component of those vapors. So, on stage one vapor
recovery is a very common control measure. We are one of five states in the country
that don't have that regulation, so this is a very mature technology. As the Mayor said, if
you do this when you install the tanks, it's very affordable. In fact, it could be little to no
cost. If they have to go back, typically the tanks are set up nowadays, if it's a new tank,
to do it anyway, but the way these tanks -- the way this system works is -- the best way
to work is with what's called a dual point system. You have one drop hole for the
gasoline to go in and one drop hole for it -- for the fumes to come and if it's not required
in that area, sometimes they will pave over that second one. So, if they have to go back
after a rule is made, you know, chop through the concrete and open tha# back up, it's an
extra added cost. So, I think you would be doing any new stations a favor by having an
ordinance in place before the state gets their ordinance -- their regulation in place,
because as I said, at fhe earliest it would probably be next year before we could get an
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ordinance out the door. We are currently working on trying to get some voluntary
monies to move this up, so we can get it going this summer, because we see that as
important, but we are going to have to go through rule making to do that. So, at a
minimum we will be giving a regulation to the legislature next legislative session and,
then, still at a minimum it would take effect at fhe beginning of July and I believe you
guys could probably do that a little quicker than we can. Now, as far as the stage two --
stage one is the underground tanks when tracks drop the load at the underground
tanks, capture the vapors coming out of those underground tanks. Stage two captures
the vapors from the gasoline tank in the vehicle and takes it back into the underground
tank. Newer cars actually have what's called on board vapor recovery. When you fill
your car there is that plate on the fuel cap that's supposed to fit snug up against there.
Of course, it makes it click off half the fime. But the purpose of fhat is to push those
vapors back down the sleeve on the outside of the fill pipe in the car and shove them
back to a carbon can'ister back in the car and capture those vapors. It's been around
since the late '90s. You're not seeing a lot of areas implementing stage two because of
that, because, eventually, the fleet will be new enough that that's not going to be really
required, the on board will take care of that. It is a more expensive technology. A lot of
times you will need equipment to actually pull those vapors from around the fuel port
there, so -- and it has underground piping and control technology. We are currently not
looking at making a regulation for that. It certainly would help, because, you know,
that's going to capture some fuel vapors, too. But it's not something we are looking at
moving forward with at this moment. And I would be happy to answer any questions
you might have on the whys and the where's of all this.
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Leonard, how come -- I realize your tanker drop has more accumulated vapors at
one solid time, but all that gas has gone back -- usually if you -- most of the time gas is -
- in the tanks are delivered in the mornings when it's cooler. But all during the day when
it's real hot it's going and I know phase two is very expensive, but isn't that part of
coming up wifh the hose in that -- attachment to the hose that takes that vapor back if
your car don't have that -- and those things are pains in the rear, they flip you off all the
time, you're -- they shut your gas off, you know.
Kerr: Yes. That's stage two. They have a bellows a lot of times and you have to
compress the bellows to make them work and I actually had experience doing -- when I
worked in California for a time, up in northern California, and we implemented both
stage one and stage finro -- this would have been in the -- about 1990. And the stage
one is a very simple system, it's just a balance system, it works by itself. Stage two
there is a lot of problems. They have improved the technology a lot since then, but, you
know, yeah, they can be a little cumbersome to use.
Bird: What kind of reception have you been getting from the gasoline retailers?
Kerr: We have -- as I said, we have been doing negotiated rule making, which means
we bring the rule -- the retailers in, the affected public, and work wifh them as we
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develop the regulation. They have no issue with the regulation. Of course, they would
like to see funding for it. Being businessmen, they would like to see as much funding as
possible. They may get some. Where, like I said, we are going to look at trying to get
some voluntary cooperation with this to get it going really fast, because we'd like to see
it implemented this summer and by regulatory means we can't do that. So, we may
come up wifh a half and half match where they pay half, we will pay half. We are
looking at funding fo.r that. If we don't we are just going to require it anyway. They
certainly recognize the reason for this, that it's common in other states. They want to
make sure that we require a dual point system, because you could also do this with a
coaxial system where you have a hose within a hose, but that slows down the draw
considerably. You have a smaller hole, basically, through the same -- you know, same
amount of gasoline. And it's up to like 50 percent longer for those drops and that
severely impacts the retail -- or fhe wholesaler. The station doesn't necessarily care,
but the wholesaler are very concerned that we only allow the dual point, so as not to
impact their -- their delivery. Because you have to add trucks. And so we are -- we are
supportive of that, because we don't want to add trucks, that's going to add more air
pollution, not less. So, that's their main concern and, of course, you know, funding.
Bird: Okay.
Kerr: But other than that, they are fine.
Bird: There is no talk of adding funding to the price of gas for -- to recapture this cost, is
there?
Kerr: No. These systems -- I mean, you know, any cost to a retailer, they are going to
have to pay for it somehow.
Bird: Well, yeah.
Kerr: But the cost for these, even on the existing station -- an old exisfing station, is
max maybe four or five thousand dollar tank and so you're not talking a lot of money.
Newer stations, for the most part, will be already ready for it. We just need a rule that
says you will use this thing. At most fhey may have to uncover that cap that they
covered over. And, then, if you had -- with any brand new stations, you just make sure
they know that this regulation is going to be there, that they have to use this equipment.
The trucks are already equipped to use it, because the bulk plants are already required
to do it. So, it doesn't really impact the trucks and the bulk plants at all.
Bird: Well, it's an awful good safety feafiure, too, isn't it? By capturing those vapors you
have less chance of -- of static fire.
Kerr: Sure. There is a couple safety features with it. One is you don't have the vapors
filoating all over fihe neighborhood. They do have to install these to the Uniform Fire
Code. There is some issues with the pressure caps on the risers that come out of them.
Also, it's a toxics issue. You know, we are promoting this because it's an ozone forming
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gas, but gasoline itself has Benzine in it and in other areas of the country -- in fact,
where I worked in California the reason I went -- when I worked the reason we put that
in was not because of ozone, we were up in the redwoods, we were up in the far north,
there was no ozone problem, it was a toxics issue from Benzine and gasoline. There is
always a toxic hot spot around a gasoline station when you don't have vapor recovery,
because when they drop those fumes, if you have ever driven by when fihey are
dropping fumes, you will smell it.
Bird: Oh, yeah.
Kerr: And if anybody lives within that scale neighborhood, they are getting quite high
Benzine exposure. So, it will remove -- you know, 99 efficient. It's very efficient control
technology. And it's very cheap, too. That's one of the real attractive qualities of that,
because we figure, you know, on average it's probably going to be about 1,500 dollars a
tank and that's taking into account the people who won't have to spend anything
compared to fhe ones that will have to spend three or four thousand to actually put a
hole in that old tank, because they don't have a dual point already set up.
Bird: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. B'ird.
Bird: I have a follow up. What would phase finro -- do you have an estimate of what that
would cost if we was to implement that, too?
Kerr: Sure. Well, I know --
Bird: Or pump or however you do it.
Kerr: Well, I know 15, 20 years ago it was, you know, looking around 50 to 60 grand to
retrofit a couple tanks in a gasoline station. I assume you're looking a double that. You
have to put in dedicated return lines from the pump to the underground tank, so you're
digging up lots of concrete, making sure those lines go right -- usually you're putting in
some kind of assist system where you have a vacuum pump, which has to be, of
course, explosion proof, because you're dealing with gasoline vapors, that pulls those
vapors off. And, then, all those hoses with the bellows are all special hoses and
bellows. Stage one doesn't require all that kind of stuff. So, it's a significantly higher
investment.
Bird: But if they are putting in a new station --
Kerr: It's much cheaper.
Bird: I was going to say, is it worth requiring phase two setup?
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Kerr: From an air quality perspective, sure. You know, we would get better controls
from that. The benefit of that will decrease over time as more and more cars have the
onboard, so -- which is why you're not seeing a lot of it done, you know, in places that
doesn't already have it. The inspection side of it is also another kind of difficult issue to
deal with. With stage one you basically -- do they have submerged fill -- to use as a
submerged fill pipe and are they using it. You can just look and see if fhey are using it
or not. Wifh stage two you have to go out there and inspect the hoses, see if there is
rips and there is tears, do pressure tests, make sure it's all working correcfly. So, it's a
little more -- from a regulatory side a little more difficult to deal with, too. But with a
brand new station it certainly would be a lot cheaper. You already have fihe concrete up
and that's the big one is putting those lines in. The hoses and bellows aren't really that
expensive compared to regular ones.
Bird: Thank you very much.
Rountree: Any other questions?
Zaremba: Mr. Presi.dent, just to clarify, though, you're saying that the stage two over
time will not provide that much benefit, because the cars themselves will be doing it,
which some already are, but as -- as more and more of the fleet are the newer cars, you
lose the benefit from having it do that at the pump.
Kerr: Right. And the cars will do it fhemselves. Which is why DEQ is not pursuing that
right now, because it's -- you know, from a cost benefit perspective, it's going to lose its
value in the not too distant future -- you know, within ten years or so fhe majority of cars
will have onboard vapor recovery. So, whereas the underground, you know, it's -- that's
a permanent fix it, it won't be fixed in any other fashion.
Zaremba: thank you.
Rountree: Further comments, questions?
De Weerd: Mr. President?
Rountree: Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: I guess we are at the beginning of a summer season that gives DEQ night
tremors, I think, in anticipation of the exceeding the standards and, you know, I also
believe in the non-attainment aspects that anything fhat we can do as a community now
can lead to fhe argument that fhe area is doing what it can and perhaps we can -- at
least if we still get the nonattainment, we do it with a little bit more control over some of
fhe outcomes. So, I feel strongly that the city needs to be a part of the solution and not
sit back and wait until we are told what we have to do.
Bird: I agree with you.
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De Weerd: We -- we are progressing very -- I think as a Treasure Valley in getting
these covered loads underway and maybe Bill can tell us if our ordinance is kind of at
the stage we can present it officially to Council and start that process.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I think fhere is -- in your packet there
was a memo that Emily prepared kind of on where we are and I think we could certainly
-- if that's the Council's direction, we can certainly, in conjunction with Treasure Valley
Partners, put an ordinance together. I fihink Mr. Dunham, the Association of General
Confiractors, is a tiny bit more supportive, maybe, than they were before and i fhink
there is still some work to be done, but I think we can certainly be moving progressing
towards that. I don't know if Mr. Kerr has a different perspective, but that's the way I
read her memo and thought that's the understanding of kind of where we are at, that
there is still some conversation to be had, but I think we could be moving forward to
bring you something back in front of you.
Rountree: Does that answer your question, Mr. Zaremba?
Zaremba: Yes. Well, I thought we had already seen a draft of that. I thought we had
one in the works.
De Weerd: We have.
Bird: We have.
De Weerd: You have seen the draft. It did get through all of your attachments. You did
get a copy of the AGCs letter that they wrote to the Treasure Valley Partners and we
are just looking for your direction on if you feel we are ready to present this officially.
Bird: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr.6ird.
Bird: Mr. President, on that we need -- we need to make sure that from the state down
to the smallest community has fhe same ordinance. I mean I just -- Steinbach just got
about probably 1,500 dollars worth of work out of my cars from the freeway, an
uncovered load threw a piece of sheetrock into the plastic bumper of my stupid car, but
we got to make sure it's enforceable and they are all the same. And I think that's what
you guys are doing at Treasure Valley, isn't it, Mayor, making sure that we all write the
same thing and, then, we got to make sure the state and the county are on board, too,
with the same --
De Weerd: Mr. President?
Rountree: Madam Mayor.
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De Weerd: I appreciate that, Mr. Bird. That's fhe intent of the Treasure Valley
Partnership is to have something thaYs consistent and, really, the -- the affected
stakeholders are interested in that consistency as well. You know, if fhey are going to
have to do it for one community, they know that they don't want to cover when they get
to one city limits, uncover or have to do it differently. So, this is somewhat like fhe
Sudafedrin ordinance that we initiated, because it -- the state was not quite there yet.
This will be something fhat helps the dialogue even at the state level I believe, that it
might be the thing that gets it moving.
Bird: I hope so.
De Weerd: And, certainly, we can challenge at the AIC conference others to -- to also
in those areas that fihey are not too far behind us with air quality and there are a couple
of other regions in the state, that I think could be beneficiaries of looking at this and,
again, it's not just air quality, we are looking at it as a safety aspect as well and fhat
certainly cannot be ignored eifher. So, I would like to see that we move forward with
this. If there is no objection from Council that we bring it back for your official
consideration.
Rountree: Madam Mayor'?
De Weerd: Yes -- I mean it's your meeting. Sorry.
Rountree: I know. I'm going to interrupt you or add to it. It seems to me you're asking
is it the direction of the Council that we support the covered load ordinance. I'm not
sure -- your comment to bring it back to us until it is in such a form that there is some
support across the Treasure Valley Partnership as a document, that it -- I'm not sure I
want to act on it until I know that's the case. I don't want to be acting on that and, then,
have to come back and act on anofher one, because somebody's made a modification.
Bird: I agree wifh you, Charlie.
Rountree: If we are to a point where somebody needs to break the ice, I don't mind
doing that either, if we are comfortable with the ordinance, but I fhink you're here and
that we support the ordinance and that effort and I would welcome us being the first
ones, as long as we have some assurances that there will be followers.
De Weerd: Okay.
Nary: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Mr. President, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, we can do a couple of
things. I think Madam Mayor has had a number of discussions with Treasure Valley
Partners and I guess that's -- fhat's a piece we are not a part of, but certainly my office -
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- we can communicate our draft ordinance to the other attorneys. That was one of the
problems we seemed to run into with the Sudafedrin ordinance. We thought we had a
very good workable document and everybody else would like to draft their own, you
know how lawyers are. And as big of valley as we live in, I actually ran into Mark
Dunham at the grocery store and he said he wanted to visit with me about his letter and
their comments and some of those things, so I told him I would do that when we got to
that point, that we needed to bring it a little bit further along the road. So, I will contact
him and set up that meeting, so we can at least maybe get, again, more of their
participation in that or at least fheir understanding of where we are going. They may not
necessarily agree wholeheartedly, but they may at least understand that the city -- the
city's side of that. So, we can always initiate those things and, then, fihrough Madam
Mayor's work with the Treasure Valley Partners we, hopefully, can get something back
in front of you in a short time, that everybody is at least on the same page of that.
Rountree: Any other comments on that particular one?
Zaremba: I just -- to pick on the second part of one of your sentences, I would be
perfectly happy if Meridian were the ice breaker and took the lead. I think bofh on the
covered loads ordinance and at stage one of the vapor recovery and even if we adopted
an ordinance knowing that at some point we may need to adjust the ordinance to match
ofher jurisdictions or whatever happens at fhe state, I don't have a problem being the
leader in it. I feel there is a number of things, like our fireworks ordinance, that helped a
lot of other people say let's move forward on this and I certainly will go along with the
group, but I`m ready to move it forward and adopt it even if we need to adjust it after
ofher people adopt it.
De Weerd: Mr. President?
Rountree: Madam Mayor, do you have enough direction?
De Weerd: Yes, I do have enough direction. When you see it on our agenda you will
know that we did what we needed to do.
Rountree: It was close.
De Weerd: And I would appreciate, Leonard, if you can work with Emily in moving
forward on the stage one ordinance for any new construction that is coming our way
with our gas stations. I think it makes good business sense and stewardship to -- to
layout our expectations. We do know fhat even though one of our Council Members will
-- might soon be an elected officer at the state level, I don't always depend on them
passing legislation in the fashion or in the timely fashion that we think it should be, so
even with the ramifications that we could have with the nonattainment. So, I think it's
good stewardship on behalf of the city, since this is an expectation that is coming
sooner or later, I don't -- I don't want to see the taxpayers or the cost of retrofitting on
something that we can anticipate today would be a requirement.
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Kerr: We are certainly on board with the city on helping them draft your vapor recovery
ordinance and I think we can pretty much insure that you won't have to go back. We --
because we already know what this is going to look like, unless the legislature gives us
a surprise, which I would doubt on this one. So, I think we can work with you to develop
an ordinance that will mesh with any state rule that comes out in the future.
De Weerd: Okay.
Zaremba: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Didn't mean to interrupt you. Just to throw one other item in for discussion
and -- I'm trying to remember what the outcome of some of the discussion was at the air
quality board when we were talking about similar things. If we also were to ask existing
stations to retrofit, are there some funds available to help them do that?
Kerr: We are actively pursuing that. There may be some funds.
Zaremba: Okay.
Kerr: And we haven't got an answer from that. It depends on whether this funding
source could be made available for this purpose. We hope #o find that out pretty soon,
because we'd like to get rolling on that pretty quick. If the funds are available, it will be a
match funding, 50/50 probably, with the station operators, so they can get half of the bill.
One of the parameters of that funding source is that it can't be used to comply with the
regulation. So, we need to, you know, voluntarily get it moving along pretty quick. We
are going to have a regulation at some point here. So, we will know that pretty soon.
And, fhen, if it's not available, then, we are just going to move ahead with a large
regulation that will cover everything.
Zaremba: Thank you.
Rountree: Along those same lines, Leonard, I'm thinking if we -- if we go the ordinance
direction, which I believe we will, are there some grants that would be available that -- I
mean you just made a statement that says if we pass an ordinance there aren't going to
be any funds, but are fhere some carrots out there for communities that take a positive
proactive step in his area that could be and if there are how do we go about applying for
them?
Kerr: There may be. There are some communities -- particularly with toxics.
Remember I said the benefits is a toxics reduction. There are some community toxics
grants that are strucfiured very good for small communities -- for smaller communities to
address toxics issues and this would certainly be one. One of the problems with looking
for grant funding for this parficular control technology is that most of the states in the
country did fhis a long fime ago and there was grant money back then. Now, it's kind of
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not even on the radar screen and when we ask for money they say, well, for what, you
didn't do this in 1972 and so it's a tough sell.
Rountree: It's probably sitting in the bank somewhere.
Kerr: Yeah. It could be. Yeah.
De Weerd; We are a little bit behind the timeline, but, again, the ordinance that I'm
recommending to bring to you at this point is for new construction and there is very little,
if at all, cost difference between installing at this time. It does save them money having
to go back to retrofit if they don't do it. So, it should be as close to a wash as we can.
Kerr: Right. And any funding we come up with probably will not be directed at new
construction.
De Weerd: Right.
Kerr: We are looking for retrofits. And if you pass the ordinance, as the Mayor
discussed, fhat wouldn't take out all your existing stations, they could still --
Rountree: Still retrofit.
Kerr: -- use this funding and we would be more than glad to help them out.
De Weerd: And, Mr. Chair, I guess the -- finro of the larger gas providers in this area
had talked to our chair at the Treasure Valley Air Quality Council and he indicated that
they were supportive, certainly looking for the incentives to voluntarily retrofit, hopefully,
this summer, but they were on board and one of those is a large provider in our
community. In faat, their corporate headquarters are here. So, it has been received as
-- he does it with all of his other stations in the other states, so it was just waiting for it to
happen.
Zaremba: But would he beat us up for an access to his station off of Eagle.
Rountree: No.
De Weerd: I'm not going there.
Rountree: Any further questions, comments?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: Thank you, Leonard. Appreciate it. Thanks for the offer to help with that
ordinance. '
Kerr: Sure. Anytime.
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De Weerd: Oh. We -- I did invite Leonard to write an article for our city news for what
we can each be doing as individuals in the upcoming summer session with ozone
issues and looking into a link to fiheir website on air quality, the readings and looking for
possible partnerships, Tom, with getting out on our education and conservation
outreach that this air quality education would be a part of -- of that as well. So, just
looking at ways we can partner on education. Thanks, Leonard.
Rountree: Bill, you're anticipating the next item, but I would like to take maybe a five
minute recess. We have been here for about two and a half hours.
(Recess.)
Rountree: That five is now ten, but I'm going to reconvene the special workshop. Mr.
Nary, you're going to start with Item 5-E?
Nary: Mr. President, Members of the Council, yes. Okay. I thought my computer had
more juice in it, but it doesn't, but that's okay. This is the best part. I`m sorry all the
officers couldn't stay. I mean I think the policy and ordinance part is fhe biggest part of
the night, but, obviously, they had more police business to do. The first one I have
provided to you is a copy of a policy. We have had the directors all review it. This is
under the drug and alcohol policy. What this originated from, these changes and sort of
rearrangement of this policy to some degree was the 9th Circuit Court recently ruled
that government could not impose drug tests on pre-employment applicants -- on all
pre-employment applicants. That's what our practice has been since I have been here
and prior to me coming we have required that on every pre-employment application.
We no longer can do that, at least until the U.S. Supreme Court weighs in differently,
the 9th Circuit is controlling in our area. It was a case out of the state of Oregon where
a library page was required to have a pre-employment drug -- a part-time library page
was required to have a pre-employment drug test, sued the city for not taking it and not
getting hired and the 9fh Circuit upheld that it was not a position that they qualify as a
safety sensitive position. Even though there are children in the library, they felt that
their interaction with children was no different than most other workers and that the
language that they used in the case law is similar to what we have in our policy, which is
safety sensifive are people that carry firearms, have custodial responsibility for illegal
drugs, perform emergency medical life saving, or fire suppression activities, supervise
children in the absence of their parents and they didn't feel a library page really had that
level of responsibility. If they have access into people's homes or businesses, they
handle hazardous materials, like weed killer and those types of things, and that they
work in the water or wastewater system, because of the danger there, as well as having
a CDL or operating heavy machinery. So, what fhe court decided was that you can only
pre-employment test people who are required to have fhat type of tesfing at any point in
their -- in their working career with your city. So, we had to eliminate that practice. We
did that about a month ago and, then, we revisited our policy and one of the things, as I
reviewed our policy, we take a very strong stand as a city against people who engage in
illegal drug use and that's a good thing. We don't take a very strong stand on people
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who engage in illegal alcohol use. We do include it, if you certainly are drinking on the
job, if you get -- a reasonable suspicion testing on the job and you're caught with having
been drinking alcohol while at work, we do take some severe steps in having people
going through counseling and the like for that. But we don't really have any
ramifications for folks who engage in illegal activity off the job if it's alcohol related, but
we do if it's drug related. And in my thinking that doesn't send the right -- the same
message to folks. It's not illegal to drink and drive. I agree with that. I was a prosecutor
for 17 years. I recognize that drinking and driying by itself is not illegal, but drinking to
excess and driving a car is equally as dangerous as people who engage in drug activity
off the job. In our current policy we state to employees that if they engage in illegal drug
activity off duty, they are subject to discipline, up to including termination. If they can't
perForm their job because they are in jail, if they can't perform their job because of the
nature of what they are doing or where they are doing it or how they are doing it in
relation to drug activity,.they are subject to being disciplined in their job. It doesn't seem
unreasonable to me for the city to send the same message about abusing alcohol off
duty. So, fihat's the significant change probably to our policy. It's clarifying that. In the
past we have had employees who have had these types of issues and, generally, we
have always directed them towards treatment, which I think is the right step. But we
also have had situations where we felt that it was more significant than that, yet our
policy didn't really support us addressing that in any fashion. Our policy really only
addressed that the person's job or disciplinary action could be taken if it was drugs and
not alcohol. And I didn't think that was correct. I did make these changes. I did run
those by the directors, they all agreed that it was the right message, that if we are going
to be a drug free workplace, that we include fhat as -- at least, again, I changed the
language to make sure it said may. We are not going to say everybody who gets
caught with off-duty DUI or off-duty providing alcohol to minors, are going to be
terminated or even necessarily disciplined, but they have to understand that if they
engage in that activity it can impact their employment and that it can sometimes,
because they can't come to work because they are in jail. They can't do their job
because they are suspended. They can't do their job because they have to have
somebody else drive them and my position as the HR director has always been it is not
the city's responsibility to make sure you can get to work or that you can drive around if
thaYs part of your job. If you can't do your job, you may not have a job. I felt it was
important that we enhance that information in our policy so people, again, understood
we are not trying to penalize people for drinking off fhe job, it is legal, but it isn't legal to
drink and drive to excess. It isn't legal to be out driving under the influence. Questions?
Concerns? ~
Rountree: I concur.
Bird: I concur a hundred percent.
Zaremba: I'm with you 120 percent. I would only ask one step farther. It only includes
drivers that need a commercial driver's license. I would assume we have a lot of people
driving city vehicles that don't need a commercial license to do that. Shouldn't we
include that as well?
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Nary: Those are just the people that have to be in the random pool.
Zaremba: Okay.
Nary: So, we have a pool of people who are subject to random drug tests and that the
courts have defined for us and the courts at least to this .point haven't said anyone who
has to drive. But if you have to drive for your job and it's impacted by off-duty conduct,
you're still subject to discipline --
Zaremba: Okay.
Nary: -- up to and including termination. IYs just the difference between what's the
random pool, which has volunteers -- I think all of fhe Council Members and all the
directors have volunteered to be in the pool, but only those specific jobs have courts
said they -- the city can mandate that they in a random pool. They haven't said we have
gone far enough to say anybody who has to drive has to be in that. It's a lawyer-judge
thing. It's just a lawyer thing.
Zaremba: I know. I'm just -- if we are going that direction, I can see an employee, for
some reason, drinking on their lunch hour driving a car back to the office hit somebody,
the city would be liable, I assume.
Nary: Maybe, maybe not. We are not necessarily subject -- if they are DUI -- say an
employee commits a criminal act, we are not responsible for that. We are not required
to anticipate somebody committing a crime. The other thing that's different in the policy
-- if you fail fhe drug test, if you get -- eifiher in a random test or a reasonable suspicion
test and you fail, currently under our policy only if you fail for drugs are you, then,
subject to random testing in fihe future. Now, the policy says if you fail for alcohol, then,
you're also subject to random testing in the future. It also says that if you -- if you fail
the pre-employment test, if you're at least one of the people in the random pool that has
to have that, our current policy says you can apply tomorrow and we start over. Well,
now it says -- I think it's a year before you come back and reapply. So, it's trying to,
again, send a stronger message to folks that that's the type of employer we choose to
be and -- but we are bound by -- because we are the government, we are bound more
by fhe Fourth Amendment and the search and seizure requirements of that and that's
why we can't be maybe as strict as a private employer could be in saying if you fail we
will never hire you -- if you fail once we will terminate you, we do have a little bit more
that we have to do to get to that type of action. But at least this puts people more on
notice that they are going to be held to more of a responsible standard.
Zaremba: Thank you.
Nary: All right. So, unless you have questions or concerns, I will probably bring fhat
back, fhen, in the next week or two for your finals approval to add that to our employee
policy.
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Rountree: Very good.
Bird: I'm for it a hundred percent.
Nary: The other one I have included is not -- sorry. The other one I have included is
not a policy and I don't necessarily want to make it a policy, this is really to make you
aware -- we had a question that came up in the departments and sometimes the hiring
process of the city is somewhat a mystery to departments in how we do it. If fhey do it
all the time, they get used to how we process fihe paper and when employees have to
come for pre-employment screening, how we do the background checks and all those
things. If they do it once in a great while it doesn't take much of a refresher, but if it's
kind of in .between those, we have found with departments that they didn't always
understand the process and so what we did is working through my staff, as well as the
departments, really tried to encapsulate in this document the steps and process that we
go through, so that they understand it better. Our intent is not to put it in a policy
manual, because if we find a step doesn't work, I don't want to spend a month trying to
just take a step out of the process. I really think it's just a procedural step. But I wanted
you to be aware what we were working on, really more of a heads up, and our intent is
to, fhen, put this on the intranet so that if a department has any questions in a hiring
process. We are very actively involved firom the human resources and the hiring
process. There are certain areas that we don't get real engaged, we really try to train
the department and let them handle it themselves. Seasonal's are the ones that we
probably -- they will take as much of an active role with the department if we really try to
train them. The more permanent positions we tend to be more engaged in in actually
being part of the decision process and flexion. But this was just really a heads up to
you to know what we were working on and that our intent was to put it on the intranet.
So, unless you had questions about that. The last one I had asked yesterday to just
include this and this, again, is more of a heads up. We found in the introductory period
of employment we made a couple of changes a few years ago, to make it clear to folks
that. although we are an at-will employer, there are some threshold levels of what does
that mean for employees. Well, one of the things I found for me and my staff, we
seemed to have had in various departments for various reasons employees who have
only been here for two months, fhree months, that we seem to spend a lot of manage
time trying to get them to understand how to do their jobs and meet expectations and
the like and what I find frustrating is that under our current policy we afford them the
same level of due process that we afford a 20 year employee and it's not necessary
legally to do that. I mean you can create some threshold between that sort of
probationary period is usually the term people use and, then, one, they pass over that
into being a regular employee and, then, they have different levels of scrutiny before
they were to be disciplined. To be honest -- and, again, I'm not -- I'm saying I'm
certainly an advocate of just not trying to help employees assimilate into the job, but
when we spend the first three months and we spend hours and~ time meeting with the
department director and the managers over one employee's problem who doesn't seem
to understand what their needs and expectations are, it seems to me like a lot of effort
for a person we haven't invested a great amount of time into yet and rather than go
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through a very lengthy process of dealing with fhat, many times I have said to the
manager or the director why is this person still here. I mean they don't seem to want to
be here very much, you have talked to them plenty, we have documented all this stuff,
and now I have fhree pages of problems that they are causing in your workplace, why
don't we just let them go. Well, there was a perception in the way the policy has been
crafted that fhey really couldn't do that and what I wanted to make clear to the
depart~ments -- you can do that. I mean we still need to take time and we need to make
sure people understand what their jobs are and we are not going to -- it's an expensive
process to hire folks, but I don't necessarily want us to spend as much time trying to
assimilate them. If they are not really the right fit for us, then, we need to move on
before we have spent more and more and more time just trying to do that. So, that was
fhe intent of the policy and the changes in it. It's not a significant change; it really is the
pracfice that we have had. I think it's hopefully clarified for the departments. Any
questions on that one? I know you have only had really a day to look at that, so if you
have any other questions, I certainly don't have to bring that back for awhile, I just
wanted to clarify some questions to the departments that we have had.
Zaremba: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: And I absolutely agree. I mea
probationary periods. Do we want to call
introductory policy or something like fhat.
n it's perfectly reasonable and typical to have
it a probationary policy? I think the title was
Nary: Right.
Zaremba: Do we want to put a different nail on it?
Nary: Well, Councilmember Zaremba and Mr. President, Madam Mayor, the reason --
fhe reason we chose that terminology is because that threshold of six months fhat you
have or one year if you`re in the public safety arena, doesn't get you a great deal more.
It's still an at-will employer and we didn't want to make sure -- we didn't want anyone to
believe that even after that six months that they weren't still at-will, I mean they still had
to perform their job and there is some process fhey are entitled to -- it's a real lengthy
process, but it's just -- but I just wanted to avoid that, that they thought there was
something magic to six months and all of a sudden there was -- I guess more
entitlement to their position than in reality they do have.
Zaremba: Yeah.
Nary: So, that was the only reason that we have used that introductory period of
employment language instead.
Zaremba: Thank you.
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Page 53 of 68
Nary: If there is nothing else, I'll move onto the city ordinance section and code review
that we have listed. The first one is one I don't -- in fact, Mr. Barry may have some input
about. A 9-4-34 is the point of liability for maintenance and this came to my attention
from Council President Rountree and, then, I have had some conversations with Mr.
Putzier at the wastewater treatment plant, who is -- part of his responsibility is to deal
with this service responsibility. I look back and I have asked fhe Clerk's Office to do a
little bit more research. This particular ordinance 9-4-34 was amended and passed on
October 5fh of 2004. I reviewed the minutes, we didn't discuss it at all, and I looked
back at the past minutes for that summer preceding it and couldn't find where we had
discussed what the rational was for this ordinance or the change. From talking with Mr.
Putzier, the prior practice of the city was the user, the homeowner, was responsible for
their service line repair from their home to the point of contact with the main, which,
generally, is somewhere out in fihe middle of the street. Sometimes it's in the alley,
depending on where they are in the town, but if they are anywhere fhat's fairly new, they
are out in the street. This says they are only responsible for their line from their
property to fhe edge of their property and fhey are not responsible for the ~right of way.
Now, again, when I spoke to Mr. Putzier, his view was we don't -- we don't do this
enough and we either have to fund this more or we need to figure out a different way to
do it and his only understanding of why this was discussed and changed was
sometimes it's very difficult. Well, this usually comes up where there is slight service
line breaks when there is new construction. So, there is new construction, they are
putting the road in, fhey put the lines in first, they put the road in, they put the sidewalk
in, they put in a whole bunch of other infrastructure and at some point of that, with all
the trucks they run over fhe top of it, they'll get some slight breaks in the line and since
sometimes, really, we don't have a property owner or a homeowner at that point, we
really just have a developer or a contractor, his belief was the discussion was it's not --
it's just as practical for us to do it as them, if that was the case. And his comment to me
was if that was fhe only case that's probably okay, it wouldn't be that significant. The
problem is is when it's an older line or it's a house that's already established and how
you have got roadways and sidewalk to tear up, but the cost to the city can be hugely
significant to do that, of course, now you folks have to wrestle with the fact that it's
hugely significant to the homeowner as well. They don't have any means to really come
up with 20 or 30 thousand dollars that it might cost to dig up the road, they don't know
how to do it, they don't know who to contact, and they don't really have the means to do
it, yet we still have a break and someone's got to fix it. So, I have asked the clerk's
office to see if we can figure out why we got to this point. I wasn't asking if you had any
solutions, unless you do, but I think it's something we wanted to bring up, but I spoke
with Councilmember Rountree and Mr. Putzier that I think we want to put in front of you,
to at least start considering what do we do, do we just fund this more, do we look at
some other alternative? How do we address this problem that appears to becoming
more and more of a problem? I don't know if Mr. Barry has any thoughts. I don't know
if he's even had any opportunity to have any discussion on this item, but --
Barry: Thank you, Mr. Nary. I have not reviewed the ordinance. I am familiar with the
challenges the ordinance presents. However, in talking with staff at the treatment plant,
we, based on my experience, approached it at least previously to this ordinance, how to
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approach this just a little bit more uniquely than as been my experience. The current
ordinance as it has with regard to service, such that the city would repair breaks or
service lines up to the property line, is consistent with the generally -- generally and
widely accepted industry standards. Most of that goes to right of ways. For example,
the uniqueness here is that we don't own or maintain our right of ways necessarily,
because of the transportation district is in possession of that. So, it sort of creates a
gray area for us or a unique situation for us whereby fihere is this -- you know, who is in
charge of service lines under and in -- within or contained within fhe right of way. So,
I'm happy to have more discussion about that. I think Mr. Nary's presented very good
informafiion regarding the overall situation and we look forward to exploring this more
and providing you some recommendations and alternatives for considerafion.
Rountree: Bill, I've been talking to folks about this and, like you, I can't find what the
genesis of the change was. Obviously, the quick remedy is to revert back to our
previous ordinance, which didn't make that provision. The other thought I have had --
and I have not explored it with anybody and possibly you can with somebody like Steve
Price, is -- is there a reason they don't want private individuals in their right of way and
was fhat somefhing that they requested that we put in our ordinance back then? I don't
recall that, but that's the only thing I can fhink of as to why we would have done it.
Eifher that or we took an example like Tom just mentioned from anofher city, Iifted it and
put it in ours, not realizing that the ofher city actually owned and operated the right of
way, where we have no jurisdiction in, either on the private property or in the street or
the alley, for that matter. The only place we would have jurisdicfion would be in those
places where we have easements.
Nary: Yeah, Mr. President, Madam Mayor, Council members, I think we can do a little
bit more research, because I can certainly envision the problem here, is you're going to
have property owners who are going to say it's not fheir pipe, it's not on ~their property,
they didn't install it, they didn't damage it, they didn't do anything to cause this problem,
and they don't have 20,000 dollars, you know. So, how do we get this done, but yet it's -
- why is it the city's cost eifher'? Most of the times we won't be able to figure out what
caused the break or caused the damage, it may simply be old pipes. It may simply be
ground tremors, it may be something else that caused that. So, we will do a little more
research with Mr. Barry. I'll contact ACHD and see if they have at least a position on
that and, fhen, we will bring it back again for further discussion.
Rountree: At some point in time we have required sewers to be stubbed out to the
property line, so that connection and the pipe typically behind the sidewalk to the new
lot is something that the developer installed and we inspected. Now, that certainly isn't
the case probably at some point in time in fhe '80s previously, but from that point
forward that's how we have done business. So, that also is another wrinkle that, you
know, we have required that and the homeowner or the builder or whoever hooked up,
hooked up to fhat stub out. They did not make fhe connecfion wifih the sewer line. So,
that's something to think about in how you put it together.
De Weerd: Mr. President?
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Rountree: Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: And I think that's probably a discussion for a later time.
Rountree: I do, too.
De Weerd: It seems that -- I don't know if this was done about the same time we had
some issues in Old Town.
Nary: Don't know.
De Weerd: I don't know if Bruce Freckleton or maybe we could even contact Brad
Watson and see if fhey have recall to it, but I guess my quesfion is -- is this a part of the
formula of establishing fees and depreciated lines and maintenance and, you know,
that's -- that's something I don't expect an answer for right now, but certainly as we
bring this back on, you know, should we or shouldn't we, we do need to know if this is a
cost that we figured into our rates, then, it's something that we should be doing. If it's
not something we figured into our rates, it brings up another scenario and -- and I don't
know.
Bird: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. B'ird.
Bird: I'm glad the Mayor brought that up, because it was in the back of my mind that
this is over Old Town when we were going -- remember through the alley and out on the
street and sleeving those and stuff, I think this is when this was bought and I-- don't ask
me why, I don't remember that, but I think it related to Old Town. And I'm like the
Mayor, I want to ~know if our fee change included this maintenance and if it didn't we
better get it.
Nary: Well, Mr. President, Madam Mayor, we will do more research, more than
anything I wanted to get this in front of you for your thoughts and, then, we will do some
more research with Mr. Barry and we will see if we can come up with at least a
proposal. There are, obviously, significant issues on bofih sides of this discussion. So,
we will see if we can come up with a recommendation for you. The next item is some
outdated ordinances. I told you at a recent discussion that we would be bringing some
suggestions for outdated ordinances. I don't have the ordinances in front of ine tonight
for you to review the specifics, but we do -- as we were going through the recent
changes with the temporary vendors and the mobile vendors licensing, we did notice, in
Title 3, which is our licensing section, that we have a lot of licenses fhat we don't
necessarily appear to need any longer. We do have an amusement license that
requires if you have a bowling alley, a pool table, fuss-ball, air hockey or a juke box that
you have to have a license. I know there are some in town and I-- fhe clerk's office has
not issued a license for this, they don't even know why it exists, I don't either. It seemed
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like something out of the early 1900s to me, other than fuss-ball and air hockey is not
very old. It didn't seem to be real necessary any longer. Escorts and escort bureau
licenses, prostitution is already illegal in the state of Idaho, so it appears escort -- we
don't have any escorts and we don't have any escort bureaus and no one seems to
come and ask for this, so I'm not sure we need it any longer. Adult entertainment
license. We are looking at -- with the Planning Department -- originally they did not
include adult entertainment in the UDC in creating standards, because we had this
license, but no one gets this license, because no one does, so we fhink it belongs more
in the development code. Most of the courts have supported development code
requirements around adult oriented businesses located in certain areas, separating
them from schools or churches and other things by distances. It's more logical in the
UDC and in talking with Mrs. Canning she agreed, she just didn't include it, because we
already had it covered, but as we looked at it, we found it didn't really make much sense
in fhe licensing section and no one has that. The last one is mobile home park licenses.
There are no mobile home park licenses currently issued in the city, yet we do have
mobile home parks. In looking at this, my assumption is this ordinance came about in
1971 and the planning code I think originally -- was originally adopted in 1974. So, this
probably was to fill that gap at that particular time. Most of our mobile home parks
today probably are from about 1971 or prior and so this probably isn't necessary, but it
will probably come back once we get these standards of what a mobile home park
would have to be in the UDC as well. We think thafs a more appropriate place for it.
There are a lot of things in this licensing that we don't really have the means from the
Clerk's Office or code enforcement to go out and inspect or capture. So, the last two will
probably come back in some other form, so we wouldn't be looking to repeal those until
that was completed. The other two -- certainly at your pleasure we can bring back a
repeal on either of those at any particular point , so --
Rountree: Comments? Direction? I'd say bring the two back as soon as you can.
Nary: Okay. We will do that. The next one, animals within fhe city limits. This one's
kind of funny and 851, it's kind of funny to read on some of these. But this is meant to
capture a couple of different things. This animal control ordinance -- there is an issue
regarding livestock. In some of the UDC amendments that have gone through livestock
isn't clearly defined any longer as prohibited in the city. Now, we don't have this very
often of people having cows and chickens and pigs in the city, but there is still some of
this and there is a desire to maybe not allow -- not to continue to allow livestock. Now, if
you annex property, we generally deal with that at that particular point. How many
horses or how many animals they have and they may be allowed to either keep those
specific animals or animals of that nature for a specific period of time and we normally
handle that through the annexation process. What this also does is there is a little bit of
clean up that we did on the dogs at large section. There is a little bit of clean up we did
on the vicious dog section, there is a little bit of clean up we did on the hobby kennels,
about the number of dogs that you could have on your property, so that we don't -- we
have had some issues with some -- hobby kennel is probably too nice a word. We have
probably had puppy mills of type in town that have been difficult to address. One of
them had a lot of wolves or wolf hybrids. Not exactly what you normally would have in
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an urban environment. So, we don't have fhose at the moment. We think this is an
opportune time to address those. The one that's probably, again, a little bit humorous,
but also something to think about -- again, I'll take your direction, is fhe list of animals
that we would prefer not to have in our city and Mrs. Canning said -- and I totally agree
with her -- having lived through this with anofher city, I guarantee you somebody in town
has an animal like one of these things and fhinks it's perfectly reasonable and sane to
have a guerilla or a fiiger or something in fheir backyard. So, it may be controversial to
some, it may not be at all, but we seem to always have folks that have very weird tastes
in animals and they tend to come out of the woodwork, if you want to pass that, so there
is a lot of discussion over the list and what should be there, what shouldn't be there.
We are certainly willing to listen, we just think from talking with our animal control folks,
they run into very strange circumstances quite often and it is things that seem
incompatible with an urban environment and although we still have a rural environment
within our borders, because of county enclaves, fhere are areas that we think maybe
within the city limits having seals and skunks as pets and poisonous snakes and things
like that is probably not appropriate. But, anyway, I leave that to you folks, whatever
direction you want us to do wifih that. I# you'd like us to bring all the sections but that, we
can certainly do that. If you want to bring it all and talk about those lists and see where
it goes, we are certainly subject to whatever you would like.
Rountree: We may have to wait until we have a New City Hall, because that will fill up
the Council chambers.
Bird: Yeah.
Nary: I guarantee you, somebody has something on this list that I would never think
somebody would have in their back yard and they think it's perfectly logical.
Bird: Especially snakes in fhe house, you know.
Nary: Snakes and pot bellied pigs always seem to bring out a lot of folks, so --
De Weerd: And those are typical.
Nary: So, if you would like, we can certainly excise that section out and bring in the
other ones that we think are probably more important to do immediately, with dealing
with livestock in the city and some of the other clean up stuff and we can save the exotic
animals for anofher day. It just seems to recur annually from police's interaction with
different members of our public and that's the reason it's there.
Rountree: Bill, is that exotic animal section compatible and consistent with our
surrounding communities and the count or is it far reaching?
Nary: Mr. President, I don't recall. Like I said, when I worked for the City of Boise we
did the same thing and everybody and their dog -- no pun intended -- come out on this
particular issue and I think at fhat particular point the Council decided not to do it. I
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don't know if that's changed. So, we can certainly do that before we come forward to
see what's fhe surrounding climate in the community.
Rountree: I think that would be good on that particular element.
Nary: Okay.
Rountree: Moving forward with the rest of it to get it consistent with some ordinances
that have been removed that we thought we had in place would be good.
De Weerd: Mr. President?
Rountree: Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: I guess, too, on -- you know, numbers and that sort of thing, we do have a
pretfy strong volunteer group out at the animal shelter and perhaps -- I don't know, a
task force could be created to really make that determination. Because, you know, our
office seems to get a sprinkling of both sides of the issues, where you have too many
dogs, which to fhe neighbors on the other side of the fence they are dealing with the
smell, the noise, and all of that and, you know, we have had a couple of scenarios that
probably weren't all that pleasant if you lived on the other side of the fence. So, you
know, I guess I would just say we want to make sure that fhose that have been serving
our community and are animal lovers are part of that discussion.
Nary: Okay. Madam Mayor, that seems like a good place to start. So, we will at least
contact Mrs. Peterson and, then, see if we can at least have that initial discussion with
them, because, like I said, snakes and pot bellied pigs seem to always be the issue and
as we discussed at our reason code enforcement meeting, you know, I don't think most
of us would have a big concern about someone that had a boa constrictor fhat was two
or three feet long, but there are people that have 25 foot boa constrictors that can kill
animals and children. So, that's a little bit different.
De Wee'rd: Do they take fhem out for a walk or what?
Nary: No. But they can get out.
Bird: They can get out.
Nary: You know, that's the problem, they can get out from their enclosures.
Rountree: Take them out for a slither.
Nary: Yeah. I don't know fhat we have a lot of bears or walruses or sloths and ant-
eaters in the city as often, but --
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De Weerd: We had a badger in our -- a little girl kept telling her mom there is a monster
in her sandbox and she was going: It's okay, honey, you know. Kind of poo pooing it.
And certainly fhere was a monster in her sandbox. It happened to be a badger that dug
a hole down in there and Brenda went out and had to trap it.
Nary: We have a lot of badgers in the city. We have a lot of those, so -- all right. Well,
we will do some work with the public group and we will bring back one that just deals
with the real pressing problems and try to get that in front of you here in the next few
weeks. The next one is parking on city streets. Yes, I'm sure fihis looks familiar to all of
you. We have talked about this parking ordinance off and on for varieties of reasons
and, actually, we found last week our code enforcement folks have been enforcing it,
but we haven't passed it yet. So, with Lieutenant Overton's help, we will bring this back,
make sure we clean up whatever the issues have been, and get this back in front of you
in short order. I mean most of this stuff is really the practice we have been engaged in
anyway, but it did come to a surprise to our code enforcement that we hadn't passed
this and it's just one of those that had gotten away from us, because we had made so
many changes and tinkered with it so often that we just kept putting it off to really
finalize it, but I will work with Lieutenant Overton and his staff to make sure we have
everything in here as clear as we can and, then, bring it back in front of you here in
short order, unless you have any other concerns.
Bird: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Bill, my biggest concern is -- is semis parking on streets. We have got some
dangerous streets that you drive down, you got semis parked on both and while I
respect and like firuckers and they are a big part of our backbone of our economy, I think
they can -- at least if fhey are going to spend -- stay overnight, find a parking lot to park
in it off the street and especially in the residential areas or stuff where they have got
those refrigeration units going all night, they can -- they can be quite noisy. So, we just
got to have some teeth, so -- because the officers tell me they can't stop them from
parking there and we need to make sure that we can do that.
Nary: Mr. President, Madam Mayor, Councilmember Bird, that was actuaily the genesis
of why we started revisiting this, because it was never very clear. So, what we tried to
do was make it as clear as we could, certain vehicles two hours, certain vehicles 72
hours. Trailers that were attached could be parked on the streets longer than trailers
fhat were unattached. The practice from the police department had been to -- to
interpret it that way, because unattached trailers could stay there for a long time.
Usually they were attached, they were a camper or somebody's either loading it or
unloading it, they were usually leaving within a day or two, but if they are unattached --
but if they were over the 12,000 pounds, they couldn't be parked on the street anyway.
So -- so, that was why we started it. So, that's why we will get it back in front of you
shortly.
Meridian Ciry Council Special Workshop
May 13, 2008
Page 60 of 68
De Weerd: Mr. President?
Rountree: Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: You know, it's the unattached trailers and it's usually the construction ones
that -- I mean I have almost seen people plow into those things, those flatbeds, they are
black, they have very low reflection on them, and they are very dangerous on some of
these -- these heavily traveled streets, so -- especially when they are around a corner.
It's -- so I-- and I don't know how you gauge some of it, but there is a safety factor in
many of these items, especially the black things that seem to blend in with the darkness
of the night and they are not properly reflective or anything else. It's scary.
Nary: We will try to address that as best we can, so that we can get this back in front of
you for final approval. The next one is one that has been talked about for quite awhile
and this is on reconsideration. I know ifs one of your favorite things that you folks get to
deal with and what we tried to do is capture, essentially, the process we have been
foilowing, but put it in ordinance. It's much cleaner and clearer to the public that want to
ask for reconsideration what the requirements are. So, that's what we tried to capture.
What I did do in crafting it was it isn't required, if somebody wants to go to court and he
wants to exercise their righf under the local Land Use Planning Act, they can do that.
They are not required to go through this process. The hope is and how this has been
used, which I honestly think has been used pretty wisely most of the time, is to clear up
those discrepancies or very minor issues and it saves the city and the applicant a lot of
time when it's one very small thing. It's a small fix that they didn't get a chance to
address, it's a very small issue that fhey could probably fix, because that's what you
would like it to look like and, then, we don't have to go to court and bring it back and we
don't have to go through a really long, expensive process for a very simple fix. So, what
I did was in capturing really the process, allows that reconsideration be requested by
anybody who was either the party, so that that could be the city, it could be the
applicant, it could be the property owner -- there could be someone that actually
testified, either in writing or in person, they can ask for it. Only once, so that we don't
have multiple people asking for these. Now, fortunately, we haven't had that yet, but we
probably will. So, it's just one time and it doesn't matter who it is, there is just only one
reconsiderafion. What we did want to make sure -- because sometimes, as you have
probably experienced, sometimes they get up here and they want to talk a whole lot
about the project again and that's not really the appropriate place to do that. All they
are doing is asking and raising to you whatever issues they think are important for you
to consider to give fhem one more opportunity to hear it again and you can approve or
deny that request. So, it says specifically they aren't there to testify, they are supposed
to provide it in writing, they have a time period in which to do it, you can review that
written request within a certain time period, they have to pay the fee, the rehearing fee,
if they don't pay the fee within that time period, then, the matter would come back to you
to rescind that direction and issue your final order and they can go to court. All the
noticing is done the same, the hearing is held the same, all of that, it really, hopefully, I
think, tries to capture the process we have been doing anyway, but just in an ordinance
form. Question?
Meridian City Council Special Workshop
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Page 61 of 68
Bird: No, I have none.
Rountree: No. Good.
De Weerd: Bring that ASAP.
Nary: We will bring that ASAP. The last one is one we have been working on for
awhile, as I said, in dealing with the temporary use and fhe mobile vendor's license, I'm
sure Ms. Holman can give you some feedback from the clerk's office, but we have been
trying to address a lot of these issues and as with any comprehensive ordinance, there
is always a few little glitches and things that come in front of you and one of fhem is
trying to figure out what makes the most sense for an exemption, if any. My
recommendation is to have a very limited waiver. If you want to waive fees, recognize
fhat most of the fiime if you're waiving fees, the work is having to get done and no one's
paying for it. And that's probably not what you'd like to see happen. An exemption is
different. An exemption creates some clear threshold of what they have to meet, you
know, whether it's a 501(c)(3) or they are a governmental entity or it's on a
governmental entity property, like it's on the school district's property, if -- whatever your
criteria is, if they can meet that and prove that to fhe clerk or -- you know, to the clerk,
probably, they can tell fhem you don't need a license, no work is performed by fhem,
nothing has to get issued to them. We don't expend a lot of fime and effort of the city in
granting fhem an exemption from the ordinance. It's a little easier to administer and it
doesn't cost as much. So, in looking at that, you know, I think the folks that -- the ones
that you see predominately are going to be nonprofits and school aativities. Now, there
may be others, but those are the ones that you will probably see the most and it's up to
you folks as to how you want us to handle fhat. Do you want us to create exemptions
for those things? You know, if they -- I'm sorry. The third one I'm thinking of is
churches. You know, the church -- you know -- and it's one thing if they are holding a
church activity on church property, it's another if if's a church activity in the Wells Fargo
parking lot. It's harder for us from a legal perspective to distinguish why a church group
that's out in the Wells Fargo or Albertson's parking lot is really any different than a for
profit group that's out fhere holding a garage sale for something or other. The other
ones that are a little harder for us to try to distinguish, but we will certainly do whatever
we can, but, really, what I had committed to you in our last meeting that we had this
discussion was we'd bring together some recommendations. But those are the ones we
see and, Ms. Holman, I don't know if you have had any ofher folks in your office that
have had concerns about the fees, but it seems like mostly it's school groups, church
groups, and nonprofits.
Holman: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, no, we have just had a lot of people
-- the churches, the schools, calling to ask if they can have some form of exemption and
we just really would like some form of direction as to whether, you know, you're wanting
them to come before the Council and you decide it on a case-by-case basis or if they
are allowed an exemption.
Meridian City Council Special Workshop
May t3, 2008
Page 62 of 68
Nary: What I have tried to discourage and told the Clerk's Office is the way the current
ordinance is written, they don't have the authority to waive fees, but what -- what I didn't
want is we don't have in the ordinance some fee waiver process, what I was not wanting
everybody is lining up here every Tuesday night with every group in town asking for a
waiver. So, what I have told the Clerk's Office what to advise folks is currently the fee is
133 dollars. That's what it costs for the time and effort that goes into getting these
issued. If they are unhappy with that, then, they need to express that to you in writing,
to the Mayor's office or to you that they are unhappy with it, but fhey can't -- right now
they can't have it -- they can't have a license without paying the fee. If you would like us
to create exemptions, we can do that.
Bird: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Bill, I don't know how you have a straight exemption. I'd like to say yes to that, but
-- but to be truthful with you, there is a lot of nonprofits running around out there that
aren't really for nonprofit. They call themselves nonprofit to beat things like this. I don't
know why we can't -- and I don't want to put this on an employee -- I certainly don't want
to see a line up every Tuesday up here in front of us. In the same -- in the same token,
I don't know why we can't have a small three person, kind of like our hearing board, that
we never use --
De Weerd: Forget it.
Bird: That we never use. And here is the one I'm going to suggest.
Rountree: Mr. Bird has the floor.
Bird: I'm going to suggest the Mayor, the Council President, and one -- somebody else,
one clerk person can be on it. And that's -- I'd just like to -- some way that they don't
have to come here, but fhere should be an exemption, but I don't know how you just
make a flat exemption, Bill, because I have seen nonprofits that aren't really nonprofits.
Nary: Well, fhe problem you have is you have nonprofits who have a 501(c)(3) and
that's easy, fhey can show their certificate, they can show proof, you know, if we want
assurance -- to make sure they have insurance, they can show us that. What you have
a lot of is not for profit. So, you have people who -- they are not really -- they don't
qualify or they have never come in and got an actual exemption, but they may qualify
and, again, most of those are school groups and things. Or churches or homeowners
associations fhat they don't necessarily -- haven't gone through a11 of those things. But,
again, they cost us money, but, again, it's hard -- the harder and harder it is trying to
carve that out when you're saying -- you know, if you're holding it in the Albertson's
parking lot, why is a school group any different running a car wash there than a for profit
group that wants to raise money for a particular thing. Why is that different? Again, we
try to put the fee -- and I know for some folks 133 dollars seems like a lot, but our fees
Meridian City Council Special Workshop
May 13, 2008
Page 63 of 68
are really based on just the time it takes to process all this stuff. And I don't know how
to do that. I think if you create a board I think what you will end up with is, to be honest
with you, Councilmember Bird, you will end up like the fence waiver board, people will
disagree with fhat and they will want to appeal to you.
Bird: And I sat on that thing for four years and I don't want anymore of fhat.
Nary: You don't have to have a decision tonight. You know, like I said, Mrs. Kane has
worked diligently on this -- on these ordinances and putting them into place and I think --
I fhink you folks need some time to figure out what makes sense and what's fair. Like I
said, if they were on the school property, that seem easy to me, but I don't want the
school property to become open season for everybody else either, that just puts it back
on somebody else's -- somebody else's property. It's sfill a problem. I mean what you
want fhe city to look like on a Saturday afternoon is really within your folks' aufhority to
decide.
Rountree: Bill, I like the idea of looking at exemptions as it relates to nonprofits and
also as it relates to their own property or places of doing business or nonprofit activities.
And I will go back to what I said the last time we talked about this, to me it's an
enforcement issue and it's an issue that most of these activities are going to occur
without a license and we aren't going to be in an enforcement mode. We don't have
enforcement people working on the weekends. The only place it's going to happen is
when there is a complaint and I don't know how often we have a complaint with those
sorts of things. So, to me fhe exemption is fhe way to -- the way to start. We can deal
with -- we can deal with fhe Rock Shop issues later.
Nary: Well, why don't we do this. We will come up with some more specific examples
for you and we will start with that. We will start with the nonprofits and try to capture the
school groups. Like I said, you know, you folks know how it is, I don't want to create an
exception that swallows fhe entire ordinance --
Rountree: We don't either.
Nary: -- and everybody qualifies. Or we have to def.end ourselves to every other for
profit group that it's unfair, that we have created an exemption for these real small
niches of folks that -- so, there is a lot of case law out there. We will see what we can
come up with for you and we will bring it back again for probably a department report in
the next few weeks and we will talk with -- again, with Lieutenant Overton. I would tell
you that, Councilman Rountree, I know code enforcement works on Saturday now.
Rountree: Oh, do they?
Nary: Yeah. They work on Saturdays. Because of the number of complaints that we
have had. Usually about real estate signs. They have been working on Saturdays. So,
they do -- they are complaint driven certainly on a lot of things, but they do work on the
weekends. I don't know if fhey work on Sunday, but I know they work on Saturday.
Meridian City Council Special Workshop
May 13, 2008
Page 64 of 68
Rountree: Just Saturday. Okay.
De Weerd: Mr. President?
Rountree: Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: I guess just to cite one other example -- and it may not be on anyone's
radar screen, it's just something that crossed my desk and I thought -- wow. We have
an upcoming charity event being done by one of our for profit businesses. It's a
motorcycle tour. They are in our city limits for ten minutes. They are gathering at
Harley Davidson, will be driving down their drive aisle out onto Overland and, fhen, hit I-
84 and for that fhey got to pay 133 dollars, because -- and our police are not their
escorts, actually, we have Boise police and Ada County Sheriff's Department that are
escorting them out of our community. So, that was just an example that probably
wouldn't have showed up on anyone's radar screen. I don't know if they complained or
they did everything they were required to do, but I thought they are in our -- on the
roads for ten minutes and fhey got to pay 133 dollars for that.
Rountree: Well, wait a minute, they ought to get a good citizen's award for doing that. I
mean I agree, there has got to be a way to --
De Weerd: So, you know -- and we will have some of those probably that's an anomaly,
those are rare, probably far and few between, but those are the things that you fihink,
wow. So, just wanted to give you one more sampie.
Nary: Unfortunately, there is lots of those, you know, and what I want to avoid is that
we are really enforcing as against everybody who asks us and those fhat don't get away
with it and those that are honest enough to want to inquire and, then, are upset by it are
really the only people fhat suffer for it. We want to make it fair. We recognize that in
trying to make it fair there are going to be people who fall into those cracks that are just
going to have to pay the fee or they will take their chances in going without it. I mean
there is not really any way I can do more than that. But .we wanted to at least make
sure ifs fair. I mean you folks don't need to hear complaint after complaint and feel that
the city that you represent is being unfair to the citizens. We are trying to make it fair for
everybody. So, we will work with staff and we will try to bring back some more logical
things that we think are defendable and aren't going to, hopefully, open the flood gates
to everything else.
Holman: Madam Mayor, Members of.the Council, one thing that Bill brought up in the
agenda meeting on Friday morning when we discussed it was in the case of having
something that possibly has an exemption, having a recommended set of guidelines for
how it's supposed to be handled and thafs something that as people were to contact
the clerk's office, we could give them -- provide that information to them of how an event
like that needs to be handled and so I-- maybe you can expand on that a little bit
further, Bill.
Meridian City Council Special Workshop
May 13, 2008
Page 65 of 68
Nary: Yeah. What we were hoping to do is that if we could create a more logical set of
exemptions and side boards to that, then, when they did contact the clerk's office they
would have to make a very simple inquiry, this is what you're doing, okay, if you follow
these guidelines you're fine. If you're within those guidelines you're going to need a
permit. So, to try to make it as clear as we can to folks, so that we don't keep running
into fhese same issues over and over again and that seems to be the problem is it's a
change for folks and I understand that's part of the growing pains we have. Many things
in our city, because of the size of our city and the way things have operated you're able
to do lots of things without really any regulation. The problem is as we get larger and
we have more commercial areas that people can do things in, they want to do that and
so we are trying to figure out that balance, but it is going to put some people -- and we
have told -- as some of you have, we have told nonprofits, like the Youth Ranch and like
that -- some of the different foundations, you're going to have to pay the fee like
everybody else. I mean that's just fihe way it is, because it's a service that we are still
providing to you. So, we are trying to figure out, again, what's fair and we will bring
back some recommendations to you in a short period of time.
Bird: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Bill, the only thing I can see is we want to make sure that we are fair and we are
not causing people to break the law, you know, by being so deal. I like your -- I like the
idea you just come up with having a set of rules and fhe gal can say, this, this and this
and if they can say yes, yes, yes, you're exempt.
Nary: Yeah. That's what we are trying to get to. So, we will do what we can and bring
it back to you.
Bird: Yeah.
Holman: Okay. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I would like to draw your
aftenfion to the lady sitting at the back of the room in the purple. Her name is Shelly
Gallagher and she is our new billing manager for the city. So, wanted to welcome her.
De Weerd:: She must be a masochist, too.
Rountree: Welcome and thanks for putting up with us for this long.
Bird: I couldn't figure out why she was sitting there.
Nary: Trying to figure out what that lady must be mad about.
Bird: No, I knew who she was --
Meridian Ciry Council Special Workshop
May 13, 2008
Page 66 of 68
Rountree: What's her complaint.
Bird: -- I have been introduced to her a couple times, so --
Nary: That's all I had for those, so we will take that direction and bring it back.
Rountree: Thank you, Bill.
Bird: Thank you.
Rountree: And with that introduction, Shelly, would you like to make a comment or --
De Weerd: You need to say it on our public record.
Rountree: Come up here and introduce yourself.
Gallagher: Okay. I am Shelly Gallagher and I'm the new utility billing manager and,
really, if's an honor to work for the City of Meridian and be back in Idaho, my home
state, and I'm really grateful for this opportunity to serve the citizens of your city, so
that's all I have to say.
Rountree: Very good.
De Weerd: And your city, too.
Gallagher: And my city now, too. It is.
Rountree: Excellent.
Gallagher: You know, my feet are just finally hitting the ground. I have been here like
three weeks now. This is my fourth week I think, so -- and I can kind of find things in my
home now a little bit and some of fhe boxes are unpacked and the garage is kind of
cleaned out and things like fhat. So, yeah, it's starting to feel like I have come home.
So, thank you. I'm really grateful for the opportunity.
Rountree: You'll get a double treat tonight, then, you get to watch Council and, then,
you get to go into executive session. ,
Gallagher: Oh, yes, that will be interesting. I have never got -- I have never gotten to
do that. I have actually been in front of council meetings at Gardena, fhe city I worked
for in California and, then, at the city of Hailey also, I worked there for five years. Thank
you. -
Rountree: Welcome again. The last item, Item 7, Executive Session.
Bird: Mr. President?
Meridian Ciry Council Special Workshop
May 13, 2008
Page 67 of 68
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we go into Executive Session as per ldaho State Code 67-2345(1)(f).
Zaremba: Second.
Rountree: It's been moved and seconded to go into Executive Session. Roll call vote.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, absent.
MOTION CARR'I'ED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
EXECUTIVE SESSION:
Rountree: For the record, we have come out of Executive Session. I need a motion to
do that.
Bird: So moved.
Zaremba: Second.
Rountree: Moved and seconded to come out of Executive Session. All those in favor?
Opposed? Motion passes.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Rountree: We are out of Executive Session.
Bird: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: We have a situation out on Mustang Drive, a Mr. Bailey, and the instrucfions are
that the utility billing through the Attorney's Office is to write a letter requesting back
monthly payments for the last three years on the sewer. Anything else?
Zaremba: Is that three years specifiically or to whenever we discovered he stopped
paying?
Bird: Whenever the services had stopped being billed.
Zaremba: Yeah. I'll second that.
Rountree; It's been moved and seconded to send a letter to Mr. Bailey indicating as
explained in terms of billing. All those in favor? Opposed? Okay.
Meridian Ciry Council Special Workshop
May 13, 2008
Page 68 of 68
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Rountree: Okay. Need another motion.
Bird: Mr. President, I move we adjourn.
Zaremba: Second.
Rountree: Moved and seconded to adjourn. All fhose in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Rountree: We are adjourned.
MEET1'NG ADJOURNED AT 10:16 P.M.
(TAPE ON FiLE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
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