HomeMy WebLinkAbout2008 04-07 Joint ACHDMeridian Citv Council / ACHD Commissioners Joint Meetina April 7, 2008
The Meridian City Council / Ada County Highway District Commissioners joint
meeting was called to order at 12:00 P.M. on Monday, April 7, 2008 at ACHD
Auditorium by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd, Keith Bird and David Zaremba.
Members Absent: Charlie Rountree and Joe Borton
ACHD Commissioners Present: Carol McKee, Sherry Huber and Rebecca
Arnold.
Staff Present: Bill Nary, Kyle Radek, Matt Ellsworth, Pete Friedman and Jaycee
Holman.
Item 1. Update on Split Corridor Phase I 8~ II
Zaragoza: -- just a general overlay and the MDC and the city must review and
approve the landscape bid alternates prior to bid award. Right-of-way status, we
are scheduled to be complete by June 1 St. We are approximately 15 percent
complete with the final 11 properties under negotiation. Bid and construction
schedule, final bid plans and specs, August, 2008; bid opening and approvals in
October and construction right now is scheduled for February 2009 and August
2009. Phase II, design completion schedufed for the summer of 2007 - project
limits are Franklin to Fairview / Cherry Lane and we are scheduled for our first
open house in August 2008. The Fairview, Main and Fairview, Meridian
intersections - Fairview Avenue has been identified as a mobility corridor and
preserved for seven lanes and recent discussion has come about on whether or
not five or seven lanes are needed in this section between Main and Meridian.
Traffic numbers support the seven lanes and those are coming from COMPASS,
for the forecast of demand and the long range transportation plans. The
Meridian and Main and 3`d Street intersections all operate satisfactory within the
seven lanes and within a week if we don't get a decision on this design, we will
be delayed. An approximate time, we don't know, but we need to have a
decision within the next week. 3~d Street extension is sponsored by the city and
we are a separate party that is working with them and with the 3~d Street
extension that does change the signal locations between Meridian and Main.
Phase II of the schedule load, preliminary and design for January 2009 -- final
design for the summer of 2009, right-of-way, 2010 and 2011 and construction in
2012. With that I will stand for questions.
Speaker unknown: Quick question, who do you need a decision from in a week
about the design? I just saw a whole bunch of elected officials here just kind of
glaze over thinking how does that happen.
Meridian City Council/ACHD Commissioners Joint Meeting
April 7, 2008
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Zaragoza: What we are looking for is a joint decision between elected officials
here to move forward within these limits at seven lanes. Just within these limits.
Huber: What does the model show for the traffic volume?
Zaragoza: It is around 45,000 adt.
Huber: That would require the seven lanes and that is from COMPASS? Do you
know if most of the traffic increase is coming from the west? I am assuming they
did, but I don't know. Meaning so that we all understand where the growth is
being created that would cause this 45,000 because I think that would be
important.
Zaragoza: Ms. Huber you are correct, most of that traffic is coming from the west
(inaudible).
Huber: Okay, so it really depends on Meridian's (inaudible) basically to the west
to get that to come to fruition and what was the timeframe for that 45,000?
Zaragoza: 2030.
McKee: Any other questions?
De Weerd: And those are also with improved corridors at McMillan, Ustick and
the rail corridor'?
Zaragoza: That is correct.
De Weerd: And that is with the rail corridor as well?
Zaragoza: I may stand corrected here, but Matt Ellsworth is coming up.
Ellsworth: Madame Mayor, Madame President, Council and Commissioners, just
to clarify briefly a couple of things relating to the rail corridor and (inaudible) had
questions over at COMPASS indicated that the numbers that are feeding in a
bottle are based on Communities in Motion and Communities in Motion are
fiscally constrained plans. There are no dollars on the table right now for a
transit system and does not have anything built in for removal of truss from the
arterial nefinrork onto the rail corridor. She did also mention that during
Communities in Motion when they were bringing that plan together they took a
look at some of the possible impacts of a rapid transit system or some type of
another rail and (inaudible) indicated that the mitigation of that would - just a
decrease in trips on the arterial network was somewhat negligible, meaning that
it will be used, but the impacts you might end up seeing on the arterial roads
wouldn't be as substantial as one might think. I just follow up briefly on the
direction that Adam was looking for today. As I understood it he was not looking
Meridian City Council/ACHD Commissioners Joint Meeting
April 7, 2008
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for concrete, set in stone decision as to whether Fairview should be five or seven
lanes. At staff level, anyway, we had discussed that it seemed more appropriate
to check some of those different approaches further on the Fairview study, which
is in the process right now, preferably earlier in that process than later, but for the
purposes of discussion today, we were interested in the assumptions feeding into
the design for the Meridian, Fairview intersection, which as Anna indicated,
ACHD staff, the consultant and city staff, for those purposes feels that
considering seven rather than five may be the way to go with the understanding
that if it needs to be scaled back at some point in the future that is going to be a
lot easier to do from a corridor preservation and a right-of-way standpoint than
trying to build a larger intersection.
McKee: So this is just Meridian and Fairview that you are talking about?
Ellsworth: Correct.
McKee: Any other questions?
Huber: So if we picked seven, then we would preserve for seven and if in the
interim while we are doing the studies somebody came in with some kind of
application, is that --?
Zaragoza: Can you repeat the question, Ms. Huber, I don't understand?
Huber: If we said seven as you said you could scale it down later, but the
biggest reason to say seven is to preserve the right-of-way that in the event
interim level of final decisions being made that we would purchase the greater
that could be scaled down? Or are you saying you don't even think they will be
purchasing at that time, it is just a planning tool --? I mean if somebody comes in
with some new thing that we don't know about -
Goodell: Maybe we could put this in a bigger context, the question about five or
seven lanes - we need to have that discussion for Fairview overall. And we sent
the letter to Mayor De Weerd asking for finro representatives to sit on the policy
committee with some of our Commissioners and the City of Boise.
De Weerd: It will be these finro, Keith and David.
Goodell: Oh, excellent.
De Weerd: We are drafting the letter.
Goodell: Oh, good, thank you very much. We will tackle that question. The
seven lane question right now we can expect to (inaudible--) the design of those
intersections (inaudible) and what we don't want to do is we don't want to go
about (inaudible) design with a certain set of assumptions and then go back and
Meridian City Council/ACHD Commissioners Joint Meeting
April 7, 2008
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redesign. That is not a good use of taxpayer money. So, if Meridian is
comfortable with saying we think this should be seven lanes in this one segment
for the purpose of the design then we can go high with it. If we need to let this
policy group have this conversation a little bit and then - it would mean that we
would put design on hold temporarily on that project because of the long term
schedule - we probably would have - it would delay design - but, we wouldn't
want to delay the design very long.
(Inaudible discussion)
Bird: If you push it back for design then you start pushing everything else back.
(Inaudible discussion)
McKee: Mr. Zaremba had a question?
Zaremba: Yes, thank you. I have volunteered to be on the group. Not to
prejudge what that group may come up with, but consider what the alternatives
is. It is unlikely that that group is going to say no, we need nine lanes. I tend to
think it is unlikely to think that that group is going to say five is okay because we
have got four now and it is not working and I realize a lot of things are going to
change when we do the rest of the split corridor, but I would feel safe designing
that intersection to be a seven by five. That would be my opinion, not wanting to
precast what the group is going to come up with, but that would seem safe to me.
McKee: Is that what you all are pretty happy with?
Bird: Well, it is five already, so -
Zaremba: Meridian for five.
Bird: Well, Meridian for five, but Fairview is already five and Cherry Lane, so
yeah.
De Weerd: We will have an answer by next week.
McKee: Bruce Mills has a comment to make.
Mills: Well, just to answer Commissioner Huber's question, currently the existing
CIP as this portion of Fairview for seven lanes, we are preserving right-of-way
when it comes to design for seven lanes. That is not changing at this point.
Huber: So it is really only this design right now that we don't want to have to
change twice?
McKee: Okay, then we will be looking (inaudible), right?
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April 7, 2008
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De Weerd: Well, we don't have a quorum, so we will just bring it up tomorrow
night.
McKee: Okay. And we have our two members for our committee.
Huber: So, in order to keep it on schedule, you are saying that there would need
to be some decision made within this week?
Zaragoza: That is correct.
(Inaudible discussion)
McKee: So are we finished with the split corridor? We need to move onto our
interagency coordination.
Item 2. Discussion - Interagency Coordination
McKee: And what are we doing with interagency coordination?
Friedman: Thank you Madame President, Madame Mayor, Council and
Commissioners. I just wanted to give you a little update on what we have been
doing at staff level and try to bring together some better communication befinreen
our two staffs. Anna, Christy, Gary and I met a few weeks ago and worked out a
protocol and we are going to start involving our staff (inaudible) and try to work
more closely at some of our comment meetings (inaudible) on some of the larger,
as we call them, traffic challenged projects. And so we are kind of getting ahead
of the ball if you will rather than waiting for you to respond to our comment
requests and us to respond to yours and try to bring things a little bit closer
together so Caleb and Mindy are working out timeline schedules so your staff
can attend some of our meetings and our staff can attend some of your comment
meetings. That was one idea. I know Councilman Rountree also had some
ideas about how as elected officials you could start coordinating. I think some of
this conversation is occurring as part of the alliance conversations and
particularly the Five Year Work Program and CIP programs and communications
because as you know we are pretty active in tracking the development of the
Five Year Work Plan and sometimes we get the feeling that we are running to
catch up and so we are trying to work out ways, both at the staff level as well as
the Commission and Council level, where we can more efficiently get our desires,
our comments and so forth. So I realize that that is going to probably be one of
the primary focuses on the next alliance discussion, I mean that really is the
proximity. That is why we put this on here and had it on here to see if there were
any other concerns or questions they we could advise in terms of how we can
help get the information to you and your staff.
Meridian City Council/ACHD Commissioners Joint Meeting
April 7, 2008
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McKee: Well, I think it is a great idea. We appreciate it. Are there any
comments or questions?
Zaremba: I know I always, well not always, but in the last several years felt there
was very good cooperation befinreen our two entities and we appreciate having
Christy show up at our Council meetings on a regular basis and there until the
last (inaudible--). I need to apologize for one thing. At the last alliance meeting, I
represented Meridian in saying that April 14th was okay for the next meeting and
then discovered that we were scheduled for an all day strategic planning session
that day and I don't know if the decision has been made, it could be that people
be here representing us -
McKee: We have rescheduled that for the 23`d. It is on our Wednesday evening
meeting, so we are going to have that meeting before our evening meeting.
Zaremba: You can tell I haven't read too many of my emails lately.
McKee: Well that is okay and that is why we have these meetings.
Zaremba: Sorry I am behind.
De Weerd: Well, we appreciate the confession anyway.
(Inaudible discussion)
Friedman: Madame Mayor and Madame President, just one other item I
neglected to mention, not only are the development review staffs are trying to
coordinate together, but we meet with Christy and (inaudible) for planning
session and we are trying to work and get the district's staff and our staff working
together earlier in the process on the longer range issues. I think we met with
you (inaudible) about South Meridian and that was good representation on how
we were able to work together. But, we have some discussions with Chris and
how we can start getting them involved as we start developing (inaudible) and
annexations and rezone levels and getting comments earlier. If anything, it is a
work in process and we are working in a positive direction.
McKee: Any other questions or comments?
Huber: I just wanted to tell you that you have brought up Christy being at your
meetings. After each meeting, each one of our liaisons runs a report about what
happened and sends it to the Commission. So on a weekly basis we get to find
out first hand what you guys are up to.
(Inaudible discussion)
Meridian Ciry Council/ACHD Commissioners Joint Meeting
April 7, 2008
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Huber: Anyway, we appreciate all of our liaisons because we know they stay
there until late at night and that they type up a report and we are all very happy to
read those.
McKee: Okay, if there is nothing else.
Item 3. MDC Downtown Striping Plan
Wardle: Just a brief update on the downtown striping plan. The Development
Corporation hired Keller Associates to put together strategy plan this fall and we
received comments from traffic - I have one clarification and maybe Terry can
help me out in terms of it appears that we need to form a committee to address
some accessibility issues in terms of our striping plan. And my question is is that
something that the Development Corporation is going to undertake? Does it
need to be a city sponsored event? I am sort of unclear as to who the regulating
body is.
Little: Sabrina has done this over in Nampa. Do you know Sabrina?
Bowman: I believe it needs to be the cities.
Little: Basically what this is is you can go by Idaho Code, which defines a block
and the linear projection from intersection to intersection on both sides of the
street or you can go with a committee and define it as the four block faces, your
mobility impaired requirements of having spaces and access to those spaces is
connected to that definition and you can see the difference between having four
faces verses finro to have to meet. It means you are going to have to have a lot
more spaces and access points to the sidewalk if you go by the existing code
and what Boise City and Nampa City have done is they set up this committee
and said yeah this is really adequate this type of thing and the ability to reduce
the requirements so you are not required to put as many spaces in and access
points.
Wardle: Well, the challenge that we are working with in Meridian is there are in
our downtown core, there are some challenges in terms of getting close enough
to ramp some accessible sidewalks to make it feasible. We can put them
wherever, but if they are not feasible and they are not usable, it doesn't really
make any sense. And so that is what we really try to do with the study. So now I
have got clarification on which agency to work with and ask Mayor and Council
with your permission and ask to work with Matt to set that committee up and
revise our plan and hopefully we will get this done - I think we are shooting for
the fall in terms of the abstract.
McKee: Sounds good.
Meridian City Council/ACHD Commissioners Joint Meeting
April 7, 2008
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Bird: We have been waiting long enough to get this started down there. Let's
get it going.
McKee: Okay, if there are no other questions, we will move to the next item.
Item 4. Update on 3~d Street Alignment Study
Ellsworth: Thank you Madame President, Madame Mayor, Council and
Commissioners. The 3~d Street extension alignment study is moving forward and
we are on schedule right now to have (inaudible) with recommendations
sometime in the summer. So far we sat down in February with area stakeholders
that would be impacted directly with one of the three alignments that we are
currently analyzing and to set the parameters (inaudible) moving into the study.
We are scheduled for a public involvement meeting on April 16th and that has
been moved to the Meridian Police Department from 4 to 6:30. It is going to be
for the broader public to soak in what is going on so far and take a look at the
conceptual cross section that the consultant has been developing just to provide
a(inaudible--). Craig Herndon from Planning and Programming has been closely
involved in this, attended the stakeholder meetings and we have appreciated his
support and his perspectives. (Inaudible--) brings to the table (inaudible) and
thanks to him and appreciate his being on board with this. I would stand for any
questions.
McKee: Any questions?
Huber: What is the potential end date for time-wise --?
Ellsworth: I don't know that we have targeted a specific end date, just the
contract goes through mid July (inaudible) and the consultant has indicated that
assuming no little speed bumps come up between now and then but it should be
anytime.
De Weerd: The Fire Department doesn't like speed bumps.
McKee: Okay, any other comments or questions?
Zaremba: The public meeting is on the 16th, correct?
(Inaudible discussion)
Item 5. South Meridian Plan Amendment
Friedman: Madame President, Madame Mayor, Council and Commission
Members I just wanted to update the Commission. The City Council on March 4th
of this year adopted South Meridian Comprehensive Plan Amendment and that
was a planning process of almost two years in the making and involved about
Meridian City Council/ACHD Commissioners Joint Meeting
April 7, 2008
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500 people and it went through about three different iterations on the future land
use map. As I mentioned a little while ago we worked pretty closely and we
timed it with the development of your South Meridian transportation plan. I think
one of the interesting things about this amendment is it had two key benefacts.
One is it added approximately 14 acres to the area, which the city is now to go to
Ada County and request an area of impact expansion. The other thing it did was
it dropped out over 5,000 acres of land that was actually folded into your South
Meridian transportation plan. If you look at the map there is an area to the west
that is referred to as a future planning area; an area of referral and during our
initial planning for this amendment, we had a variety of planned use designations
that have been going back and looking at the numbers factors, including the
existing inventory of undeveloped lots in the cities and the cities ability to provide
services, preferences of the residents and the landowners out there and the lack
of services. We had recommended to both Planning Commissioners and Council
that there really wasn't a strong need for us to push into that area at this time and
that we could come back and visit it in the future when the conditions has
changed. I assume one of those conditions would be the Ten Mile Interchange
(inaudible), but we really are going to be focusing our efforts in other parts of the
city, specifically those that were identified by the City Councif and the Mayor at
their strategic planning last summer. So, the South Meridian Transportation Plan
was models based on a land use alternative that we had taken originally to the
Planning and Zoning Commission and it included land use designations for all of
that area. That has all been backed out now and potentially the cities (inaudible-)
as is sort of status quo at least in the near future and Craig I noticed here we
haven't had a chance to kind of work that path through, but it does have a pretty
significant effect on what that transportation plan would look like today.
(Inaudible discussion)
Huber: So the wide study area is south of Lake Hazel, which isn't (inaudible)? Is
that right?
Friedman: Yes, Commissioner really right now the new line that was adopted is
actually south of Columbia, this jot there and that also is a line that we developed
after our discussions with Mayor powdy and the Kuna Planning staff and as a
result of Commissioner (inaudible) efforts last winter in trying to get cities to
identify future boundaries.
McKee: Okay, Craig did you have anything that you needed to say? It is just
that you are signed up on my agenda so I thought I would be polite and ask.
Herndon: Madame Mayor, Madame President, Councilmen and Commissioners
I gave you a brief update after last week's meeting on staff's intent to update the
South Meridian Transportation Plans taking into account the effected changes
that we approved for the adopted land use assumptions have (inaudible--)
account on the study compared to what we had originally modeled. The maps
Meridian City Council/ACHD Commissioners Joint Meeting
April 7, 2008
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that I handed out to you have just a quick review of the study area we looked at.
The first map or the second page is what the study was actually - the
demographics used for the study and then the third page was, I want to say close
to adopted version of and that was presented to Council and Council made a few
minor changes to that land use map and that was what was adopted and so
those are what those (inaudible) maps are. My hope is to have another contract
in about another month and the update will take about three months to do and we
will come back at that time with the updated version; it is our intent to work with
the City of Meridian Planning staff so that we can make sure that we move
forward and (inaudible). It is difficult to come before you and tell you I have to do
an update on the study and tell you that the study that there were many
successes out of it that brought to mind the cooperation with the city and keep
things going and (inaudible).
McKee: Any questions for Craig? Mayor?
De Weerd: I guess as you look at this and because it is still central, it's
influenced by what happens in Canyon County to the west and Kuna to the south
are some of the considerations as to what is happening west and south taken
into consideration in this study area?
Herndon: Madame Mayor, Madame President, Councilmen and Commissioners
the (inaudible) begins with the bad is this is based on the Communities in Motion
model that went through the City of Meridian's land use changes and applied
those demographics into the model to come up with the projections. We are
getting some projections of increase from Kuna and from the west and as part of
that I don't know necessarily what you are contemplating, but it is within the
model being increased.
De Weerd: Madame President, I guess I ask that is that it doubled the land mass
and it wasn't in Communities in Motion and certainly those cars aren't going to
stay south of Kuna. They will travel through Meridian, so I just - that is one of
the reasons I asked that question is some of these changes that are incurring is
how will it influence the study that was recently done when we didn't have that
data?
Herndon: Madame Mayor, Madame President, Councilmen and Commissioners
that is the same type of situation that we are running into with our Kuna Morris
study, our southwest Boise study. Communities in Motion, if you took the
community choices model, even the south Meridian area wasn't really included.
If you take the trend, you get some of it, but you still don't get the representation
of what all of the expected impacts, all the planned communities that are
planned, you know, further to the south that would go into this. For the
southwest Boise study and the Kuna Morris study we tried to account for some
(inaudible) in the demographics that were applying into it and if its sort of one of
those up in the air things exactly how much you apply for this area, especially for
Meridian City Council/ACHD Commissioners Joint Meeting
April 7, 2008
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like Kuna that is expanding into some of the area. I know that within the model
itself it accounts for some of it and the surmountable growth that is going on
down there.
Huber: Craig do we know when Communities in Motion is going to update their
model to include all of this use and activity? And recent, I mean (inaudible) in
Kuna a couple of days ago, but do you know how long it is going to take them to
get that all into the model?
Herndon: Commissioner Huber, President McKee, the last 1 heard on it is there
is an imminent update to Communities in Motion, exactly whether that is coming
this year, next year, two years down the road one of the concerns have been
brought to COMASS, but t don't know for sure when the update is planned.
Huber: Definitely the concern, we will read about it in the papers, but (inaudible).
De Weerd: Will this be something that as a potentially causing the public
facilities model so that if things like this are added that they enlist and help
mitigate the downstream effects?
McKee: You know I am not sure about that because the model, I think
(inaudible) public facilities -
Huber: Yeah, if we don't have the correct modeling information then everything
else - if we don't have it and there are 10,000 cars that come from the south -
well, they are coming right through that area and we can't do an extraordinary
impact fee; we can't - the model has always been the issue. The modeling is too
slow. I don't know why and apparently it can't be fixed, but we need to insist it is
fixed.
McKee: Well, maybe that is what we need to work on at the alliance.
Huber: Well, it all comes back to COMPASS. It has got to react. It has to.
Friedman: In preparation, I think we get back to the previous question.
COMPASS, in preparation for the update for the long range transportation plan,
we are already starting to look at those forecasts and assumptions next year and
preparations for next year and preparation for the plan the following year. The
Demographic Advisory Committee is already looking at the forecast and updated
forecasts because everybody, I think, recognizes the forecast (inaudible--). But, I
think the Mayor brings up a good point. That really is - I think one of the major
focal points or efforts for the alliance was to kind of bring those land use to
Planning and Zoning (inaudible--) to the forefront (inaudible--). The challenge will
be how do we get our arms around an unforeseen annexation (inaudible--) from
what I read in the paper, is that they didn't necessarily apply land use
designations to that area, I think they gave it a base agricultural designation and
Meridian City Council/ACHD Commissioners Joint Meeting
April 7, 2008
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they will go back. So you are still are playing with an unknown quantity there and
so (inaudible--).
Huber: Well, and maybe this has changed, but I always had an issue with the
demographics and how they get divided up because many years ago, I asked
one of the components do you ever look at the cost of land because the lower
cost land is where the development is going to happen first. So, I am thinking
back on where we are doing more (inaudible) and now there is such activity in
the south and land prices at that time were not even looked at and even if you
take a generic one, there is in my mind a significant difference now between the
cost of the land in the north and the cost of land in the south and I know that
some of that desert ground has sold very reasonable compared to some of the
farm ground. So where do you think they are going to push to have it go? If you
can (inaudible) 12,000 as opposed to 80,000? Where are you going to put your
houses?
Friedman: (Inaudible) as the Mayor was indicating the whole question as to the
public facilities and then you have your planning community, which is also a wild
card in the whole mix because if the City of Kuna, the City of Meridian and the
City of Boise say well this is where we are taking our utilities and I am sorry that
you are not there and you have public facilities ordinance in place and you
sincerely want to do something out there then you had better pony up. I haven't
had a chance - what is the (inaudible) in public improvement districts in terms of
where development may or may not occur, like the infrastructure and so forth?
So there are a number of things that we as a local government need to look at as
we are doing this planning and influence where that deveiopment is going to go.
Huber: (Inaudible) really tricky. Somebody else's growth is somebody else's
headache and I think the tricky part for you maybe guys, Kuna and maybe even
Star is that (inaudible) if you make the cost of developing in your area higher than
the cost of developing in another area and maybe it would bounce off the land, I
don't know. But, it seems to me that we especially need to position at a minimum
extra impact fees while we are in the process of all of this.
(Inaudible discussion)
McKee: Well, and we still have the issue of Canyon County. I know I have been
speaking with Commissioner (inaudible) ever since he took office and he keeps
telling me we are slowing down, but we are still approving subdivisions and they
know those cars are all going to go on the freeway (inaudible). So our first joint
meeting with the Canyon County Commissioners and the Canyon County
Highway District is going to be this month and we are going to set up those
meetings very much like the city meets. So we can actually find out what those
numbers are. Steve said he would be very happy to provide those to us, but
again those numbers are not feeding into the COMPASS model fast enough and
we really don't have a clue yet of what they are and how much they are. Slowing
Meridian Ciry Council/ACHD Commissioners Joint Meeting
April 7, 2008
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down is fine, but as Steve said, they just approved another four. So we probably
have to start (inaudible--) and the Highway District (inaudible--).
Bird: Canyon County puts more load on Ustick's developments, Amity, 20/26,
Franklin than they do on the freeway because when you look at it you would be
surprised how many of west comes through Fairview. That is why I want seven
lanes there eventually and that is why Ustick has to be widened and improved all
the way in because they don't always get on the freeway and you have Middleton
that I know everybody is down with the economy down turn, but once they get
going back, Sherry hit it right on the head, they are going to develop where the
cost of ground is cheaper. That is why Meridian got a lot of development 15
years ago because our development ground at that time was a lot cheaper than
Boise's and Nampa has consequently been cheaper than us and so they have
got a lot of people over there. Kuna is a good example of what we will do with
development (inaudible--). Anyway, I think that is the main thing and I think we
have got a very good commission (inaudible--). The only problem they have got
is they have got seven different highway districts.
(Inaudible discussion)
Huber: (Inaudible--) so few direct routes to the freeway, so say from Middleton,
so as he said with (inaudible) closed, people find their own routes and they end
up coming right through Meridian; just because they don't have those routes and
the one that he is trying to work on of course, ITD is going to have to build for
them. They have just been flat told don't worry about this for five to ten years.
So where are those people going to continue to go? Traffic is just (inaudible--)
cluttered. If they can't easily get to the freeway then they are just going to come
down our little two lane farm roads, Star or Eagle or whatever, but they are
coming.
(Inaudible discussion)
McKee: Okay, anything else about the South Meridian plan because we have a
time for other and the Mayor has brought us a letter about speeds on Meridian
roadways and Terry can you help us out with this?
Item 6. Other (Timing Permitting)
Little: The issue was someone who had moved back to Meridian and has gotten
a few tickets where the speed limits don't seem to make a lot of sense. Speed
limits are treated individually in the sense that you look at the conditions on the
road, the speed that people are traveling at, the measure of (inaudible), speed
related accidents and traffic controls and driveways and those kinds of things and
that figures into the speed limit. Sometimes it doesn't make much sense on a
system basis, but we will take a look at that as much as we can on a system
Meridian City Council/ACHD Commissioners Joint Meeting
April 7, 2008
Page 14 of 16
basis. Perhaps Locust Grove is what is referred to there; I think it is still 35
through there with the improvements.
(Speaker unknown): I think, Sherry, part of that issue that I read on that letter is
the same stretch of road and we have a speed limit change and it might be
appropriate from the (inaudible) perspective, but it seems to me that when we
were talking about this is maybe we need to look at when there is a speed limit
change within a mile or something of alerting those people in a different way
because if you come through and it is 35 and then it goes 25 and you are still
going 35. If there is a way that we can alert them that there is a speed change,
especially if it is on the same strip and maybe that is not possible, but you see
what I am saying that if in fact there is some good traffic reason in your
perspective to drop it 10 miles - because I have the same gripe on Orchard. I
got a ticket there once a long time ago. Because as you are coming up Orchard,
it is not a consistent speed limit there either and I know Kuna has the same
issue.
De Weerd: Well, I think Pine Street is a great example because it is 35 through
most of it until you hit an old town section that it lowers down to 25. And you
know -
Bird: Well, there is a school there too.
De Weerd: Well, not on the other side of Main Street.
Bird: You have got a lot of kids walking down there. Personally I think -
De Weerd: But Keith it may make sense, you are driving down the corridor and
you don't know that it has changed. Maybe there is a designation (inaudible--). I
don't know what it could be. Franklin Road is another one where you go from 45
to 35 and at somewhere it is 40 and it is a number of different speeds and it is
just trying to - where there is a reason for the speed change that you have a red
flat or something. I don't know.
(Inaudible discussion)
Zaremba: There are also speed reduction a head signs. We should use those
more liberally.
De Weerd: I don't know people aren't seeing them.
(Inaudible discussion)
De Weerd: I think it took me five years to see the one on Pine Street. If you see
one limit, why would you look for more?
Meridian City Council/ACHD Commissioners Joint Meeting
April 7, 2008
Page 15 of 16
Little: When we put in a new speed limit, we put flags on it. I will look and see
what is being done nationally in terms of the alerting advance of signs. Now we
do some of them - like we do more than ten mile an hour because you need a
little time to break that in - somebody had to move out away so they are away
from the signalized intersections. We have got some of those permissive
intersections where you have somebody coming in at 50, the other guy thinking
that this is 35, turns left on a green light and there are some concerns there. I
will take a look at what is being done nationally in terms of any additional
warnings.
McKee: Well, wouldn't it help you if they could identify the streets because it is
really hard because (inaudible) and if somebody sees a street and alerts us
because I think it is really difficult.
(Inaudible discussion)
Huber: I am talking about from Chinden to Fairview.
(Inaudible discussion)
Huber: We are the one that posts the speed limit signs and we have no ability to
get any (inaudible).
(Inaudible discussion)
McKee: Do we have any other?
Arnold: I just wanted to talk about the email we got from Christy from last week's
City of Meridian Council meeting. I was confused about which parcel you are
talking about where they wanted to tax sidewalk and whether or not (inaudible).
The sidewalks (inaudible--) who is willing to proVide an easement (inaudible--).
Richardson: (Inaudible--) and Council really did try to get that; unfortunately the
timing is an issue and there is an existing house there right now and just because
it is a preliminary plat and they got approved. So the property owner intends to
stay there until they start doing some grading and construction and so we had to
accommodate the person and the residents there even though they may not be
there in six months. We had to do the same thing for (inaudible). So in this case
it was just the timing.
Arnold: Was the property owner part of the subdivision application?
Richardson: No, the property owner is selling?
Arnold: So it was not a part of the subdivision application? It was confusing to
me which property owner had an issue with it. (Inaudible--).
Meridian City Council/ACHD Commissioners Joint Meeting
April 7, 2008
Page 16 of 16
Zaremba: What we would really like to have happen is have applicants to just
come in in order.
Huber: Well, it is just like the infill projects, too. They are just becoming a
nightmare.
(Inaudible discussion)
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 1:30 P.M.
(DIGITAL RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
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