HomeMy WebLinkAbout2008 04-15Meridian Citv Council Meetin~ April 15, 2008
A meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 7:15 p.m., Tuesday, April
15, 2008, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd, Charlie Rountree, Keith Bird, Joe Borton,
and David Zaremba.
Others Present: Bill Nary, Jaycee Holman, Anna Canning, Jeff Lavey, Joe Silva, Tom
Barry, Clint Dolsby, Mark Niemeyer, Steve Siddoway and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
X David Zaremba X Joe Borton
Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
De Weerd: Okay. Okay. I will go ahead and start tonight's meeting. Sorry for the late
start. We were having technology issues. So, we appreciate you all being here with us.
It is, for the record, Tuesday, April 15th. It's 7:15. We will start tonight's meeting with
roll call attendance.
Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance: Boy Scout Troop #461:
De Weerd: Item No. 2. I'd like to welcome finro of our Boy Scout troops. We do have
Troop 129 here with us. Their leader is Mike Walls and they are sponsored by the Ward
-- 3rd Ward -- Meridian 3rd Ward of the Church of Jesus Christ, LDS, and tonight we will
be led in the pledge by Boy Scout Troop No. 461. They are led by leader Mike
Campbell and they are sponsored by the LDS church Lochsa Falls Ward. They are
working on their citizenship for community merit badge. If you will all rise and join them
in the pledge.
(Pledge of allegiance recited.)
De Weerd: We do have pencils for the Boy Scouts and their leaders that our City Clerk
will hand out to you. So, again, thank you for joining us. We appreciate you being here.
And good luck on your merit badges.
Item 3: Community Invocation by Pastor Ken Redford with Meridian Friends
Church:
De Weerd: Item No. 3 is our community invocation. Tonight we will be led by Pastor
Ken Redford. He is with the Meridian Friends Church. We go through a rotation of
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April 15, 2008
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different churches in our community. We appreciate this kind of start to our City Council
meetings. Pastor Redford, thank you for joining us.
Redford: Shall we pray. Most Holy God, tonight we want to begin by pausing our
attention and our thoughts before you. We want to recognize the many blessings that
you have given to us being part of this great country and citizens of this community. We
thank you, Lord, for your goodness in every way. On a day like April 15th, we are
reminded of our responsibility to our government and, Lord, we recognize that with
blessing come responsibility. We thank you for each person here, for public servants,
for their willingness to serve this city in this way. As decisions are reached tonight, we
would ask that you would impress on each mind and each part a concern for fairness
and goodness and unity. You alone are perFect in wisdom and truth and so we pause
before you to ask your blessing. Amen.
Item 4: Adoption of the Agenda:
De Weerd: Thank you so much for being here with us. Item No. 4 is adoption of the
agenda.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: On the agenda tonight on the Consent Agenda it's been asked to take 5-X and
table that to the 22nd of April 2008. And also Item 9 on the regular agenda has been
asked to be continued to 4/22/08. And also under the Mayor's office, the Meridian Arts
Commission update has been asked to be brought on April 22nd, 2008. And with that I
move that we --
De Weerd: Mr. Bird?
Bird: Yes. Oh, I --
De Weerd: Dr. Clark couldn't join us tonight, so we'd like Item 6-B-1 also moved to
the --
Bird: The Mayor's complete office report be tabled until 4/28 or 4/22?
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Bird: And we got one ordinance. Eighteen. Which would be 08-1355. With that I move
we approve the revised agenda.
Rountree: Second.
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April 15, 2008
Page 3 of 81
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to approve the agenda as revised. All
those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 5: Consent Agenda:
A. Approve Minutes of January 7, 2008 City Council Special / Joint
Workshop Meeting:
B. Approve Minutes of March 4, 2008 City Council Regular Meeting:
C. Approve Minutes of March 11, 2008 City Council Special Workshop
Meeting:
D. Approve Minutes of March 18, 2008 City Council Special Meeting:
E. Approve Minutes of March 24, 2008 City Council Special Meeting:
F. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law or Approval: RZ 07-
021 Request for a Rezone of 27.89 acres from R-4 to C-N (2.75
acres) and L-O (25.14 acres) for the property located on the
southeast corner of North Locust Grove Road and East Leigh Field
Drive for Education Campus Commercial by Joint School District
No. 2- Southeast Corner of North Locust Grove Road and East
Leigh Field Drive:
G. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: PP 07-
025 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 7 commercial building
lots on 25.87 acres in proposed L-O and C-N zones for Education
Campus Commercial by Joint School District No. 2- Southeast
Corner of North Locust Grove Road and East Leigh Field Drive:
H. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: CUP
07-022 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a medical office in
the O-T zoning district that does not meet the criteria of the
Downtown Meridian Design Guidelines for Meridian Eve Care by
Dr. Dan Thieme -125 West Cherry Lane:
I. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: AZ 08-
002 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 3 acres from RUT to an
R-15 (Medium High Density Residential) zone for Villas Cca Lochsa
Falls by D.T. Campbell Investments - 5555 North Linder Road:
J. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: PP 08-
002 Request for a Preliminary Plat approval with 1 residential
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April 15, 2008
Page 4 of 81
building lot and 1 common lot in a proposed R-15 zone for Villas
Lochsa Falls by D.T. Campbell Investments - 5555 North Linder
Road:
K. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: CUP
08-003 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for 21 multi-family
dwelling units in a proposed R-15 zone on approximately 3 acres
for Villas Ca~ Lochsa Falls by D.T. Campbell Investments - 5555
North Linder Road:
L. Water Main Easement A~reement for Famous Dave's BBQ by
Idaho Dave's BBQ, Inc.:
M. Water Main Easement Aareement for ldaho Pulmonarv by
Aspen Grove Development:
N. Sanitarv Sewer and Water Main Easement A~reement for
Paramount Commercial by Ustick Marketplace, LLC:
O. Sanitarv Sewer and Water Main Easement Aareement for
Pinebridae by DMB Investments, LLC:
P. Sanitarv Sewer and Water Main Easement AQreement for
Devon Park No. 3 by Fairview Lakes, LLC:
Q. Chanue Order No. 1 for the Black Cat Trunk Sewer Phase 4
Schedule B&C (Construction) with Knife River for $12,021.08:
R. Chans~e Order No. 2 of Contract with Treasure Valley DriNin~
for Construction of Well 27 for Additional Well Development,
Test Pumping and Mud-Weighting Material for $27,000:
S. Task Order 0732a with Civit Survey Consultants, Inc. for Well
14 Pump Replacement Desiqn for a Cost Not to Exceed
$8,500.00:
T. Task Order 0726a for Water Division Facility Phase 2(Desian)
with Civil Survev Consultants for $2,420.00:
U. South Area Lift Station and Pipeline Proiect Amendment No. 4
with CH2M HILL for $86,000:
V. Pressurized Irriqation Memorandum of A~reement with
Briqhton Corporation for Paramount Commercial Southwest
Subdivision No. 1:
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April 15, 2008
Page 5 of 81
W. Economic Development Coordinator Aa_reement between the
Citv of Meridian and Virtus Enterurises, LLC:
X. Award Bid for Grant for Sr. Citizen Center Phase 2 ICDBG-04-
III-01-SR for Window Replacement with Western Siding for
$4,620.00:
Y. Ratification of Bid Awards Approved on April 8, 2008 with
Petra for the New City Hall Plaza:
Z. Approve Beer, Wine and Liquor License Renewals:
Carrabbas 3285 E. Pine Ave. Beer & Liquor
Super Pollo 2031 E. Fairview Ave. Beer
New Frontier 116 E. Broadway Ave. Beer & Liquor
Fiesta Guadalajara 704 E. Fairview Ave. Beer & Liquor
Pizza Hut #2165 675 S. Progress Beer
Pizza Hut #2166 1752 W. Cherry Ln. Beer
Baja Fresh 1440 N. Eagle Rd. Beer
Harvest Buffet 48 E. Fairview Ave. Beer & Wine
Ustick Chevron 770 W. Ustick Ave. Beer & Wine
Fred Meyer 1850 E. Fairview Ave. Beer & Wine
Round Table 499 Main St. Beer & Wine
Health Nuts 1756 W. Cherry Ln. Beer & Wine
Tobacco Conn. 450 S. Meridian Rd. Beer & Wine
Chicago Conn. 1629 N. Main St. Beer & Wine
Ghicago Conn. 1935 S. Eagle Rd. Beer & Wine
Siam Thai 2951 E. Overland Rd. Beer & Wine
Quick Stuff 3010 Goldstone Dr. Beer & Wine
Strikers 324 S. Meridian Rd. Beer & Liquor
Busted Shovel 704 N. Main St. Beer & Liquor
Goodwood 1140 N. Eagle Rd. Beer & Liquor
JB's 1565 S. Meridian Rd. Beer & Liquor
Idaho Steakhouse 3560 N. Eagle Rd. Beer & Liquor
Texas Roadhouse 3801 E. Fairview Qve. Beer & Liquor
Epi's 1115 N. Main St. Beer & Wine
Wingers 1701 E. Fairview Ave. Beer ~ Wine
Divine Wine 2310 E. Overland Rd. Beer & Wine
127 Club 127 E. Idaho Ave. Beer 8~ Liquor
St. Lukes 520 S. Eagle Rd. Beer & Wine
Cafe Indigo 1789 S. Eagle Rd. Beer & Liquor
AA. Bud~et Amendment for IT for Network Infrastructure for
the New City Hall:
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April 15, 2008
Page 6 of 81
De Weerd: Okay. Item 5 is the Consent Agenda and, Council, I would note that on
Item Z on the beer, wine, and liquor license approvals, these have been reviewed and
approved by Deputy Chief Joe Silva.
Bird: And all the proper paperwork is done? Okay. Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: On the Consent Agenda, as I noted earlier, Item 5-X has been asked to be tabled
to the 22nd of April 2008. And with that I move that we approve all the rest of the
Consent Agenda and for the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to attest on all papers.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda as amended.
Any discussion? Seeing none, Madam Clerk, will you, please, call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 6: Department Reports
A. Legal Department
1. Precious Metal Dealers License:
De Weerd: Okay. Item 6, under Department Reports, I will turn this over to Mr. Nary
with the legal department.
Nary: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I have a
couple of different things for you and I will try to be quick, since there is a full house
tonight. The first item, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, is just a short
discussion item regarding precious metal dealers' license. The City Clerk's Office had
contacted me the other day, we had a person that came in to inquire about our
requirements for a precious metal dealer and we haven't issued one since 2003, so they
were a little curious about the process, because we hadn't had anybody request this
before. In my offices review of this ordinance, we believe that most of the concerns that
were trying to be addressed in this ordinance are now being addressed in the pawn
broker ordinance. If you recall a couple years ago, in conjunction with the police
department, we revised our pawn broker ordinance and requirements for licensing and
such. This particular ordinance, the way it's currently drafted, addresses -- addresses
people that deal in secondhand jeweiry, precious metals, and including gold and silver,
as well as precious gems. So, the last one that was issued for the Diamond Import
Store that's up on Main Street was the last one we issued, but yet we have never
actually required that a license be issued for Lee Reed Jewelers or Fred Meyer, even
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Page 7 of 81
though it may apply to this type of thing. What I'd like to do with your direction is get
with the police. I did mention to Chief Lavey and his cursory review felt we probably
had covered our concerns in the pawn broker license of what this is trying to address.
He asked that ~ contact both Lieutenant Overton with our community services division,
as well as lieutenant Basterrechea with CID, just to make sure we don't have any other
gaps that exist that we have a concern with, so we may be bringing this back to you in
finro to three weeks requesting we repeal it, because we feel it's adequately covered, but
I wanted to give you a heads up and if you have had a concern with that, obviously, to
take your direction on that particular issue. Is there any other questions about that
item?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: No. Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Rountree: Anytime we have an opportunity to repeal a regulation I'm for it. Especially
on April 15th.
2. SWAC Committee Member Changes:
a. Add New Billing Manager
3. SWAC Recommendation for Recyclin~t Proiects:
a. Sawtooth Middle School for Reader Board for
$17,000.00
b. Heritage Middle School for Bleachers for
$6,000.00
c. Meridian Youth Baseball Complex for Bleachers
for $15,000.00
d. Ponderosa Elementary School for Gazebo for
$6,000.00
Nary: Your position is noted. Thank you. Councilman Rountree. The next item is the
Solid Waste Advisory Committee. With the change in the utility billing department, we
have a new utility building manager who started work yesterday, Shelly Gallagher. She
-- the utility billing manager has been a regular member of this city committee, I believe
since its inception. So, we would ask your permission to include Mrs. Gallagher on the
committee. Ms. Holman, in her transition to City Clerk, has stayed on the committee in
the interim to provide that continuity, but I think she probably has better things to do
than attend another meeting and in our discussion with Mayor de Weerd the other day,
we really would like to take back to the next committee meeting I guess an opportunity
for discussion amongst the committee members to get more citizen involvement. We
currently have two private citizens that are involved in the committee, that's Chair Nancy
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April 15, 2008
Page 8 of 81
Mann, who has been the chair I think since its inception, and Josh Moss, who actually
came to the committee as a volunteer. He was working here in the community. He
actually began a recycling program at his former work. He has started a recycling
program at his new employment and he is very actively interested in recycling. In this
community and for a lot of the folks in the audience that may not know what the solid
waste advisory committee is, the committee was set up by you as the Council and the
Mayor back in -- I think our -- I think as far back as we could find was either '98 or 2000,
and Councilmen Rountree may recall, but somewhere in that --
Rountree: I think it was '98.
De Weerd: Yeah. So, 1998. And the purpose of the committee originally was to just
deal primarily with the recycling funds, all recycling funds that are collected within the
city from residential and now the commercial recycling, all the money after the expenses
of the program are covered from that cost, all of that goes into a fund that is given back
to the city for community projects. We budget out through the finance department
annually in your budget process. This current fiscal year we have 55,000 dollars
budgeted in that fund for community projects and, actually, in last year's calendar year, I
believe Mr. Sedlacek reported to the solid waste committee that they actually had
forwarded 100,000 dollars to the city last year. So, over and above what the city
already budgets for, they have actuaNy been able to do that through the efforts of the
citizens in our community. All of these four projects that are on your agenda tonight
were recommended by the Solid Waste Advisory Committee for funding by -- out of this
fund and I can maybe just take a brief moment to explain each one of them. The first
one, item A, Sawtooth Middle School reader board, is an exciting new and different
opportunity than we have had before for recycling effort. Sawtooth Middle School has
come and, actually, the principal had spoke to me on a number of occasions and one of
things they were looking for was a community partnership of this type. What the
principal had said was for a school, if they want to go out and get an item like this, they
generally have to go through parent teacher associations, which is what they have done
here, to raise up half of the money and that's one of the requirements of this program, is
that haif the money or haif the cost of the project has to be funded from the applicant or
through some other source. But what he stated was for a school, many times they can
fund these types of projects through some local vendor, like Pepsi Cola or Coke Cola
and those kind of things and what he felt was that that was not the right message to the
kids. And Sawtooth Middle School Is located on Linder Road, it's a very visible location,
and he felt that it was a better opportunity if they could partner with the city, that they
could promote recycling, both through the construction of the sign, which is a general
requirement of the committee is that the project that's actually constructed, that at least
as much as possible was constructed out of recycled material. The -- but, secondarily,
that they could provide better information both on the sign and on the reader board
message to people to promote recycling efforts, so they could really, truly, make it a
community reader board and a community of some community value. The committee
felt because of the visibility of Sawtooth on Linder and the busyness of that record, and
especially with Rocky Mountain High School going in and opening in the fall, that that
was a great opportunity to promote recycling in a different manner than we have ever
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April 15, 2008
Page 9 of 81
had an opportunity before. So, that was the reason the committee was in favor of that,
but the up to 17,000, which is the -- in your documents was because that's the
estimated cost of half of the sign. Obviously, it may be a little bit less, but that was the
max that the committee recommended. The bleachers for Heritage Middle School and
for the Meridian Youth Baseball Complex were requests from the parks department.
Both of these facilities are in desperate need of bleachers. The parks department has
limited funds to provide bleachers for either of these sites. The Meridian Youth Baseball
was able to raise 15 -- or committed to raising 15 thousand dollars for a total -- they
believe it's going to end up being 42,000 dollars worth of bleachers that are necessary
for the youth baseball complex. They have raised or committed to raising 15,000 by this
summer to get these bleachers installed. The solid waste committee felt that was a
worthy project, along with Heritage to be able to commit the half of those monies that
are dedicated to that. Mr. Siddoway did indicate he may be either looking for additional
sources or may come back for a second application for the remaining bleachers for the
baseball complexes if other sources can't be found, but he would leave that to another
day. But the committee felt these were worthy. We have funded these. It had been
about four years since the city had actually funded a park project. Normally, the
projects have other sources or other requests and it had been a number of years since
a park project had actually been funded, so the commission felt that was appropriate.
The last one, Ponderosa Elementary, the solid waste committee had provided benches
along -- they have a walking path at Ponderosa and if any of you have ever been there,
they have a huge -- they have a huge program for walking and running for kids that they
do actually during the school year and they have a large running -- running and walking
path on the school grounds. The solid waste committee had helped fund through the
parent-teachers association benches along that pathway. Probably for the teachers and
parents that walk with the kids. I have never seen the kids sit down while they were
walking when I have been out there, but I think it's the parents that sometimes do. They
asked for a gazebo, again, to promote recycling. It will have information on it how it was
provided. We felt it would be a nice amenity to that site and, again, the committee felt
that was a worthy cause to want to do that. So, all of those are on there for your
approval and if you have any other questions I hope I can answer them for you.
De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none
Rountree: I have none.
De Weerd: Thank you, Bill. And the -- just a point of information on the Meridian youth
baseball complex. The bleachers that they have are really not appropriate for that new
park. They are rather dangerous and so this was a nice way to bring those up to safety
standards and I appreciate the committee bringing that back. Okay. Council, we are
seeking your direction and approval on the recommendations by our SWAC.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
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April 15, 2008
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De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we approve the recommendations of the four recycled projects
brought for this by SWAC.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to approve the recommendation by
the SWAC as presented tonight. Any discussion? Madam Clerk, will you, please, call
roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRtED: ALL AYES.
B. Mayor's Office
1. Discussion of Heritage Ball Fields:
2. Meridian Arts Commission Update:
Item 7: Items Moved from Consent Agenda:
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Nary. There were no items moved from the Consent
Agenda.
Item 8: MFP 08-001 Request for Modification of the 6-foot vinyl perimeter fencing
approved with the Final Plat landscaping plan for Cardiqan Bav
Subdivision (FP 06-040) by Liberty Associates, LLC - north of East
McMillan Road, south of East Chinden Boulevard and west of North
Locust Grove Road:
De Weerd: So, we will move to Item 8, MFP 08-001. I will note that we did have a letter
from the applicant. However, there is an outstanding issue on the fencing. Did staff
agree with that?
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I just put under the outstanding
issues what the applicant was requesting a change to -- it's not really an outstanding
issue. This is good to go, if Council agrees with the proposed change.
De Weerd: So, staff did agree with that?
Canning: Yes.
De Weerd: Okay. Council?
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April 15, 2008
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Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Anna, can you give me just a skosh more background on the chain link fence
and how that's not problematic?
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilmen Borton, the approved
sign -- or the approved landscape plans for the final plat show vinyl fencing along the
perimeter, so it would be everywhere in red. The -- the property boundary on the north,
the vinyl fence was put in by Madilyn Estates and on the south it was put in by another
subdivision that's called out in this yellow triangle that for some reason is not showing
up. And, then, there is an existing chain link fence along the east boundary in back of
the -- it was installed by the LDS church there. So, all they are asking is not to put up
duplicate fences everywhere. They are all existing fences in these red areas. That is
the requested modification to the final plat.
Borton: Okay.
De Weerd: Any additional questions from Council?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Is the applicant here this evening? Okay. Any comments? No.
Rountree: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, do I have a motion?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move we approve Item 8, MFP 0-8001.
Borton: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to approve Item 8. If there is no
discussion, Madam Clerk, will you, please, call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 9: MFP 08-002 Request to Modify Final Plat (FP 07-028) from the approved
landscape plan to eliminate trees from drainage swales in the center
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April 15, 2008
Page 12 of 81
islands of the roadway and near the detention pond in response to ACHD
requirements. Additional trees will be placed within the common area
along W. Ustick Road and one tree planted on each individual residential
lot (home builder responsibility) for Southwick Subdivision by Gemstar
Properties, LLC - 1255 West Ustick Road:
De Weerd: Okay. Item 9 was requested to continue to April 22nd. Do I have a motion?
Rountree: Madam Mayor'?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we table Item 9 until April 22nd.
Bird: Second.
Rountree: I have a motion and a second to continue Item 9 to 4/22. All those in favor
say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 10: VAC 08-002 Request to Vacate the existing right-of-way of Nola Road for
Nola Road Vacation by Doug Tamura - north of Lanark Street and east
of Locust Grove Road:
De Weerd: Okay. Item 10 is VAC 08-002. And staff.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is a vacation for Nola Road. It's
the portion of Nola Road just south of the railroad tracks. I just realized at this moment
that I don't have a graphic up there for you, so I apologize. I can pull up the staff report
if you would like me to. But it's the short segment from Lanark going up to the railroad
where they have relocated -- they have taken away the access across the railroad and
relocated it to Locust Grove. So, the right of way is no longer needed. So, the adjoining
properties are asking that it be vacated. We have all the necessary relinquishments.
There are finro conditions of approval noted in your staff report. One is with regard to
emergency access for the fire trucks and the other one is with regard to easements.
Now, you're not the approving authority on this vacation. Ada County Highway District
would be the approval body. So, the only thing we ask is that if you do decide to
recommend approval of this vacation, that you ask that ACHD incorporate the finro
conditions noted in the staff report in the letter that you send to them.
De Weerd: Thank you, Anna. Any questions for Mrs. Canning?
Rountree: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Do you have comment? No? Yes?
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April 15, 2008
Page 13 of 81
Tamura: Mayor, Members of the Council, my name is Doug Tamura. My office is at
112 Port Santa Maria in Boise. And we are the applicant. The reason we are
requesting this vacation is our neighbor to the east of Nola came to us and he had done
an addition and the highway district had put conditions on him to do some street
improvements along Nola and those are believed that it would be in the best interest of
the highway district to go ahead and vacate it, so we jointly requested to the highway
district. And in regards to the emergency vehicle access, I met with -- with the City of
Meridian's fire department Joe Silva and discussed options. So, we have kind of three
alternatives. One is the parking lot to the west, it's kind of the northwest corner, is large
enough to provide a hammer head turnaround. The other thing is during there daily
operations the gates are open, so it provides a full access around the building. And,
then, in the future we believe real strongly on shared joint access, so depending on
development of what we do with our property to the west, we don't have a problem of
providing the joint access, you know, through our parking lot, and particularly since we
are going to have to provide utilities for the sewer and water lines that are in Nola
anyway, so it probably would make sense, but until we get to that point we know we
can't do that. So, the other things as far as the easements, we will work with Public
Works on providing 20 foot access easements. I mean 20 foot utility easements for the
utilities. But we will get that put together before we make our application before the
highway district.
De Weerd: Thank you, Doug. Any questions for the applicant?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Our staff comment with respect to emergency vehicles was to provide a
vehicle turnaround and you're suggesting that you would provide for emergency vehicle
and not necessarily a turnaround?
Tamura: The -- when I met with Mr. Silva, the concern was -- is that parking lot in the
northwest corner of the existing building and I went out and measured it and it qualifies
for a hammer head tumaround within that existing parking lot.
Rountree: Okay.
Tamura: So --
Rountree: So, you're not opposed to providing that?
Tamura: No.
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April 15, 2008
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Rountree: Okay.
Tamura: Yeah. I met with Zeke Johnson, the owner of the property, and he's fine with
that, too.
Rountree: Okay.
De Weerd: Is that Record Steel? Is that Record Steel?
Rountree: Record Steel? Yeah.
De Weerd: Okay.
Rountree: I don't have anymore questions.
De Weerd: Anything further, Council?
Tamura: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Council, any further information needed on this item?
Bird: I need none.
Rountree: I don't need anything. Madam Mayor'?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we forward a letter of recommendation to Ada County Highway
District indicating the agreed to accommodations for emergency vehicles and that
provisions need to be made for utility easements.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. 1 have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Mr. Nary, do we
need a roll call on this?
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, it probably would be better.
De Weerd: Okay. Madam Clerk.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 11: Public Hearing: AZ 07-016 Request for Annexation and Zoning of
224.29 acres from RR to R-2 zone (45.14 acres) and R-8 zone (179.16
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April 15, 2008
Page 15 of 81
acres) for Castle Rock by Providence Development Group, LLC - south
of East Amity Road and west of South Eagle Road:
Item 12: Public Hearing: PP 07-020 Request for Preliminary Plat approval
consisting of 794 residential building lots and 86 common / other lots on
181.11 acres in proposed R-2 and R-8 zones for Castle Rock by
Providence Development Group, LLC - south of East Amity Road and
west of South Eagle Road:
Item 13: Public Hearing: PUD 07-001 Request for approval of a Planned Unit
Development for deviations from district requirements to provide an
opportunity for exemplary site development for Castle Rock by
Providence Development Group, LLC - south of East Amity Road and
west of South Eagle Road:
De Weerd: Okay. Item 11, 12 and 13 are public hearings on AZ 07-016, PP 07-020,
and PUD 07-001. I will open these three public hearings with staff comments.
Nary: Madam Mayor'?
De Weerd: Yes.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, our stenographer tonight was going to
be delayed because he had to cover a deposition and I don't know if he told Mrs.
Holman, specifically a time or just a generalized time that he would be here. This is a
fairly lengthy hearing that you're going into and I know there is certainly a lot of people,
so I don't want us to delay it very long. It's -- I know in the past in the Council's comfort
to have that done. Now, Mrs. Holman is recording this both digitally, as well as on tape,
so I know we can certainly cover that if necessary, but if you don't mind delaying a few
minutes -- I guess if Mrs. Holman has maybe a better idea on specific time
Holman: Councilman Rountree, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Dean just
called me and said that he was going to be I believe in a deposition. He did not know
how long it was going to take, but he would be delayed. He didn't expect it to be more
than I thought a half hour or up to an hour. But there is no time frame on that.
Nary: No. It's certainly up to you, Madam Mayor and Council Members. Again, I know
we are recording it in two forms, so we certainly have the means to create the
transcribe-able record, which is required, obviously, by statute. So, it's just up to you. I
just wanted to point it out.
De Weerd: Council, we have a relatively short agenda after this. Would you like to
table these four and consider the rest of the items and, then, come back to this?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor'?
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April 15, 2008
Page 16 of 81
De Weerd: Yes.
Zaremba: I move we continue Items 11, 12 and 13 to after Item 18.
Bird: I would second that.
De Weerd: Okay. And I do have a motion to put these to the end of our agenda. All
those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 14: Public Hearing: TE 08-003 Request for approval of an 18-month Time
Extension to obtain the City Engineer's signature on the Final Plat and
commence the use in accordance with the conditions of approval of AZ
05-016, PP 05-023, CUP 05-024, FP 06-011, PS 07-003 and TE 07-004
for Umbria Subdivision (aka Silver Oaks) by Ten Mile Development,
LLC - north side of West Franklin Road, approximately '/ mile west of
North Ten Mile Road:
De Weerd: And we know most of you are here tonight for that. We should not be too
long in getting through our agenda. Item 14 is a Public Hearing on TE OS-003. I will
open this Public Hearing with staff comments.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is the Umbria project. It's
located at Ten Mile and Franklin just west of the future church site. The applications
before you tonight are for a time extension for final plat and a Conditional Use Permit.
This is the approved final plat. It's a rather simple plat. And, then, this is the site plan
for the Conditional Use Permit. The approved final plat consists of one multi-family
residential building lot, one commercial building lot, and one irrigation lot. The approved
Conditional Use Permit consists of a planned development for 70 multi-family structures
and those were four-plex structures on a single lot with private clubhouse and park and
multi-use pathways, zoned R-15. And, then, there is also one commercial lot for a day
care or office buildings, zoned L-O. The preliminary plat and the Conditional Use
Permits were approved by City Council on October of 2005 and, then, the planning
director approved a 12 month time extension for the plat and Conditional Use Permit in
March of 2007. As a condition of granting the previous time extension, I required the
applicant to comply with four additional conditions of approval based on the current
UDC requirements that were not in effect at the time that this project was approved. So,
this was approved prior to the re-haul of the zoning ordinance. The final plat was
approved by City Council on March 21 st of 2006. This time extension will expire on the
April -- or did expire on April 11th. They did get the paperwork to us in time. Actually,
they got it to us on February 27th. And they are asking for an additional 18 month
extension for both the final plat recordation and commencement of the conditional use.
The applicant is requesting the time extension, because the developer went bankrupt
after the first time extension was approved and the new owner received the property
back in foreclosure about two months ago. And the owner needs additional time to find
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April 15, 2008
Page 17 of 81
a buyer. With all extensions the city may require compliance with current provisions of
the UDC as a condition for granting a time extension. The gross residential density of
this project is just around ten units per acre. So, staff has recommended approval
based on the code. You're going to start seeing a lot of time extensions before you and
it is an opportunity to evaluate whether or not you want to approve them.
De Weerd: Thank you. Any questions for Mrs. Canning?
Bird: I have none.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor'?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: This came through while I was still on the Planning and Zoning Commission
and I'm not sure that I ever knew the end result of a discussion that was around here.
At the Planning and Zoning Commission I believe we wanted them to require to bond for
half of the bridge across this canal. Would you have any recollection whether the City
Council required that?
Canning: No. And I did not bring a copy of the original permit with me tonight. So, I
may be able to pull up -- find the file if I-- given some time, but I can't answer off the top
of my head.
Zaremba: I know that's a challenge to do that.
Canning: It was awhile ago, sir, so I--
Zaremba: Yes, it was.
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Madam Mayor. Question for Anna. At the time of the initial approval were
there any -- was there a development agreement and are there any design
requirements associated with this particular application?
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I do recall that there was four
different elevations given to you of the type of product and the Conditional Use Permit
was tied to those elevations.
Rountree: Okay. Thank you.
De Weerd: And, actually, if you recall, those elevations came back a second time after
a modification.
Bird: That's right.
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April 15, 2008
Page 18 of 81
Rountree: That's right. I remember now.
De Weerd: So -- if there is no further questions by Council, I would ask if the applicant
has comments.
Erhart: Madam Mayor and City Council, I'm Milt Erhart and I'm representing as an
agent for the developer.
De Weerd: Mr. Erhart, will you, please, state your address for the record.
Erhart: My address is 9540 West Pebble Brook Lane, Garden City.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Erhart: All right. Basically, Anna has given you the details. I really can't add much to it.
There are a number of potential buyers at this point in time for the development, so I
think if the time extension is granted that probably you're going to see this thing coming
in for some building permits sometime in the next six months to get this thing moving.
So, to my knowledge the -- the owners, who got this property back unsuspectingly, they
-- that's the way it happened, basically, they needed -- they need this extension to get
the appropriate buyer in the door.
De Weerd: Thank you. Any questions for the applicanYs representative?
Rountree: I have none.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor'?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I would ask you the same question. Are you aware if there is a requirement
to --?
Erhart: I'm not aware, but I-- I wouldn't think that that would be a major problem.
That's not a major expense.
Zaremba: Okay.
Erhart: But I-- I'm speaking a little out of turn, but I don't see that as a big issue.
Zaremba: Thank you.
Meridian Ciry Council
April 15, 2008
Page 19 of 81
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilmember Zaremba, there was
a DA required and it does say that the applicant shall be responsible for all associated
with piping the Kennedy Lateral, unless otherwise specifically waived by
Nampa-Meridian. The plat -- I wasn't able to quickly see anything regarding a bridge.
So, I don't believe there was a requirement, other than as a requirement to pipe the
Kenney Lateral, which would facilitate cross-access across to that other property.
Zaremba: And the issue, Madam Mayor -- the issue raised at the Planning and Zoning
Commission was the connectivity and whether or not people would have to go back out
onto Franklin, which is the arterial that this abuts, in order to gain access to the church,
which will be just to the east of this and they have -- the church has considerable
property that could be developed into additional things besides the church and
interconnectivity with whatever property develops to the west. My recollection is the
Planning and Zoning Commission thought that that connection was important and the
only way to get it would be for the applicant to bond for half of it. It apparently didn't --
the City Council, apparently, did not make that requirement. I am asking to raise that as
an issue again.
De Weerd: Mr. Nary, I guess I would ask you in consideration for a time extension, is
this something that could be added to the conditions?
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I mean for the time -- the time extension
itself -- the time extension is just for the -- the plat, not for the development agreement.
So, you certainly can do that, but I guess I would be more -- I'm more comfortable if you
were going to do that, to, then, notice it up for a hearing, so they have an opportunity to
come and respond. Until Councilmember Zaremba raised the question it certainly didn't
ring a bell with me, but I seem to recall a lengthy discussion and I-- and maybe this is
just my recollection -- I don't believe anybody has ever come here and offered to pay for
half of a bridge, because of the general expense of that and because the other property
-- the adjacent property of the triangle there was no development on that parcel, so the
logic of where it would be and whether or not that was a reasonable connection at that
time, I don't believe they agreed to that. And that's why it's not in the DA. So, besides
the time extension, you're going to have to also amend the development agreement if
you want to include that and, therefore, you need a Public Hearing. So, I would be
hesitant to just grant a time extension and condition something like that without a
hearing.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Nary. I recall this application, because I wasn't really fond
of it and that was one of the reasons, but --
Zaremba: Well, Madam Mayor, my suggestion, in light of what Mr. Nary has said, would
be perhaps to deny the time extension, which would mean a new application.
De Weerd: I would probably ask the applicant if he has comments and I would imagine
he does.
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April 15, 2008
Page 20 of 81
Erhart: I do have. Yes, i do, Madam Mayor and City Council. First of all, probably 80
percent of the infrastructure is already in place in this development. You're going to
create a lot of havoc if you deny this time extension. Also, as far as the Ten Mile
Christian Church is concerned, now I'm not sure of your question there, because they lie
adjoining and I'm not aware of any water befinreen those two. In fact, the street adjoins
and there is an agreement between the church and the developer to develop the street
together that goes in there. So, that's -- that's issue is there. And --
Zaremba: Just on that subject if I may, Madam Mayor. The water is on the other side.
Over here.
Erhart: Right.
Zaremba: The church is to the east.
Erhart: Right.
Zaremba: And I understand there is a common street or driveway going to be
developed, but the -- the issue is on the other side, although these people, when that
develops, would need access to this property.
Erhart: And -- may I?
De Weerd: Yes.
Erhart: As you see this development, unlike a lot of developments, virtually all of the
curb is in on all of those streets. I would say 80 percent of the curb is in. The sewer is
in. The water is in. So, those streets have all of that in at this point in time. So,
changing the mix would be very interesting. In fact, I'm not sure -- I think it would
jeopardize getting this development done in the near future at all in, my opinion.
De Weerd: So, construction has begun, then, on --
Erhart: Oh, yes. There has been probably I would say maybe a million dollars worth of
infrastructure is already in out there. At least.
De Weerd: Thank you for that clarification. Okay. This is a Public Hearing. Is there
anyone from the public who would like to offer testimony on this application? Council
any questions? Staff, additional comments?
Rountree: I have none.
Bird: I have none.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilmember Zaremba brought up
the -- the interconnectivity issues and I just wanted to show you that just the simplistic
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April 15, 2008
Page 27 of 81
diagram that was done with the Ten Mile plan at this property. This is the property in
question.
De Weerd: So, that blue line is not the canal, but it's a-- it's a connector?
Canning: This -- the canal runs along this property line.
De Weerd: Right.
Canning: This was a collector road, yes.
De Weerd: So, there was a bridge required or a connection to the west over that canal
at some point?
Canning: This was just the -- the thoughts on providing access to those northem
properties as -- as depicted in the Ten Mile plan. It doesn't reflect any prior approvals.
De Weerd: But, Anna, I guess in that -- in the plat I would imagine those were private
roads, weren't they, or were they?
Zaremba: Well -- and, Madam Mayor, that blue line doesn't exist on their plat.
De Weerd: Yeah.
Canning: I believe this was public.
Zaremba: Yes.
Canning: From here down to here was public.
De Weerd: So, there is an intent that that will connect at some point? If not required in
the DA, any additional bonding for that cost?
Canning: Not that I could find quickly.
De Weerd: I would imagine that cost would be on the adjoining property owner if they
desire to develop. Okay.
Zaremba: Okay.
De Weerd: Any additional questions or comments from Council?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Meridian City Council
April 15, 2008
Page 22 of 81
Rountree: I think the Ten Mile plan is an indication that since we first saw this not
months ago, years ago, things have changed. Granted, there is infrastructure placed,
but I assume that that was on the back of the people that lost the property and not the
people who got the property back. Is that correct, Mr. Erhart?
Erhart: Yes. That would be correct.
Rountree: Okay. So, you know, do we stick with it because of that or do we take a look
at it -- we have conditions for any time extension, re-platting or extensions, are subject
to changes that are recurrent in that period of time. The UDC design requirements now
would have the Ten Mile plan in place, which indicates that it would be beneficial to the
transportation network out there to have some kind of a corridor in there. I just make
that statement now trying to think where I'm going with this application, so that's not a
mystery to anybody.
De Weerd: Mr. Erhart.
Erhart: Well, if I could respond. In meeting with staff, I discussed the possibility of
doing patio homes and it was my understanding that the City Council and the Ten Mile
plan really wanted much higher density than that. So, this plan, as I understand it,
fulfills what you're wanting out there as far as the urban zoning. So, if you are changing
that, that would be a significant change and I think going away from what apparently is
your Ten Mile plan, as I see it. This fits the Ten Mile plan, because in approaching them
about the possibility of -- if I were to take to over, for instance, of doing the patio homes,
there is a question whether that would comply and the other reason why -- you know,
the bridge is one thing to have -- have walkway access, but if you're going to have street
access, one of the things that people are asking in today's world is security. You know,
this subdivision could -- could have a private gate. It could be a very nice upscale
subdivision. So, if you're going different than that, then, I would have to ask are you
deviating from your Ten Mile plan in the urban corridor that you're looking at?
Rountree: I don't remember that in my comments I said anything about density. It's
whether or not this plat is consistent with what we envision out there. I don't disagree
with you in terms of its density. As far as security, one of the issues on this particular
application was, in fact, security and public safety. And being able to get in there and
serve that many units with basically one access road and that's still a concern that I
have, but that's a few months over the bridge. Anyway, appreciate your comments.
Erhart: One comment. I believe there are actually two accesses, one down here and,
then, your main one that goes up and all the way through. Thank you.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Nary.
Meridian City Council
April 15, 2008
Page 23 of 81
Nary: Madam Mayor, I don't know if this is of any help to Members of the Council, but I
think Councilmen Rountree raised the exact issue why these time -- why these time
conditions exist is because circumstances change, plans change, codes change. This
particular project it just happens to be sort of caught in that circumstance where many
things have happened in this particular area since this plan and project was approved,
Thus, the reason those time extensions are necessary to come back in front of you
because of those conditions. I think what Councilmember Rountree said and what Mr.
Erhart was trying to address is the piece that is somewhat missing. The analysis hasn't
been done as to how it relates to the current plans or the current codes. It really is an
extension of what was already granted three or four years ago. That maybe something
the Council -- if you want that, that's certainly something you can direct staff to do, but,
you know, these situations, as Director Canning has stated, you may see more of these
where they have allowed these things to lapse or merely lapse before they come
forward and they are three or four years time gap and this one I think has had a prior
extension previously. So, there is a fairly long time period that has passed. So -- and I
don't think it's unreasonable from the Council's perspective to want to look at all of those
circumstances that have come since this was approved. To simply just grant this again
-- you know, I don't think where you're going is certainly unreasonable or un-defendable.
It's not required. It is a discretionary decision. The fact that those -- those
infrastructures are in place is certainly compelling information, but it doesn't mandate
that you have to grant the time extension either.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Any final comments from the applicant? You are
allowed the last word.
Erhart: Thank you. The only reason this project is attractive to any developer is the fact
that the infrastructure is in and in this economic environment that we are in right now
where housing is really up against it, getting that cost point down is the only way you
can make the thing work. So, if the owner has to start from square one, my opinion is
that that particular corridor is not going to get developed for awhile. Now, I can't say --
you know, I'm one of the individuals bidding on this. If I end up getting it, this is going to
be a-- it's going to be a green project and it's going to be as close to is a zero Idaho
Power meter as anyone can get. So, really going to go the second and third mile to
achieve that which I think could be an absolute boom to the City of Meridian. I can't
assure you that at this point in time. A lot has to do with what you decide tonight
whether I will even end up being the developer. But that's where I would take this thing
as far as a project and it in my opinion could be an exciting project, but, quite candidly, if
you turn it down, I know I'm not going to go forward because it raises the cost just too
high to -- to change everything around again, so --
De Weerd: But I guess, Mr. Erhart, you -- you raise a question that we were dependant
on whoever it is that purchases it and does the right kind of project. And I guess that's
what the Council is most likely grappling with is can you maybe make some
requirements to come back for Public Hearing on the DA, so that the successful bidder
is standing in front of us and talking about the project that he would be -- he or she
Meridian City Council
April 15, 2008
Page 24 of 81
would be recommending to build to be an asset to our community, rather than take the
roll of the dice and depend on chance to make sure it's the right person that's doing it?
Erhart: Well, that's certainly your prerogative and I might say that the owners of this
project have the bank letters of credit in place, the Ada County letter of credit, which I
think is 160,000. I think the other two letters of credit are over 500. So, they have
complied with all of that to try to keep this project alive. So, financially they have taken
all those steps to -- to be in compliance here tonight as we are meeting. But you
certainly have the right to require design review to come back before the Council.
De Weerd: Any questions for Mr. Erhart? Thank you.
Borton: Madam Mayor'?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Borton.
Borton: Just sort of cut to the chase. I have got a suggestion and Mr. Nary maybe can
tell me if and how we can get there. As it sits right now, I'm not in favor of the extension
in light of everything that's gone on and sensitive of the concerns of this particular
property and what's happened with the prior owner. But if there is a means for us to --
to utilize the Public Hearing process and I don't know how many weeks out it would
have to be set to review the time extension in conjunction with potential DA
modifications -- the one that jumps out was the bonding for -- for half the crossing,
which it sounded like that particular issue might not be a concern. If that allows the
applicant to meet with staff and see if -- if any and all current UDC provisions should
also be applied and one of the suggestions might come forward that we would tie to an
extension, then, we can have this conversation and it gives the applicant a fair
opportunity to see what might be additionally imposed upon them and we can decide at
that time.
De Weerd: Mrs. Canning?
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the question to ask would be -- or
just to clarify on that one is the applicant responsible for submitting for development
agreement modification? Is that what you would like to see? If it is, we probably need
about a month to bring that back to you to get that application complete and bring it
back to you. I'm not sure that you can't place that condition upon the CU. It used to be
that if their project did have a conditional use we didn't always require a development
agreement -- it's not an off site, it's still an on-site condition or to place it upon the plat
would be a possibility as well. I believe. I'm looking at Mr. Nary for --
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Thank you. Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. It appears to
me the stick you have is this time extension. So, it sounds to me like you should go one
of two ways. If you want some opportunity for the staff and the applicant to meet to see
Meridian City Council
April 15, 2008
Page 25 of 81
-- because I think the concern Mr. Erhart raised is that if the project, essentially, starts
completely over, there is no -- at least for him and maybe other potential buyers, no
practical reason to want to do that. It's too costly and too time consuming to do that.
That may not necessarily be the staff s recommendation. There may be a lot of what is
accomplished is consistent. I don't know that answer and I don't know if Mrs. Canning
tonight is comfortable with that answer. So, you could certainly continue this for finro
weeks to have that opportunity for the staff and the applicant to have this discussion to
see I guess a generalized analysis of where we would go with this. Again, still holding
that time extension. tf you, then, think after that report that this is a-- significant
changes are necessary or significant changes are not, then, you can make that decision
of either granting a time extension, because you can condition those minor changes to
that extension, or they are major changes and you don't feel comfortable that there is
adequate time to get that done with a time extension and, therefore, you would like the
project to begin further back in the process. But I guess I don't have enough information
tonight to tell you one works better than that other. I think we need -- I think the staff
needs a little more time to analyze it and you may need a little bit better information and,
again, Mrs. Canning certainly is free to disagree with me, but I don't think we have any
-- enough information tonight to tell you which is probably better to go. But I think you
want to hold that time extension at least for the moment until you have that answer, to,
then, decide do you tie it to it because the development agreement process does
require an amendment or the CU process requires a Public Hearing for an amendment.
And that would take about a month.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Nary.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: This is a Public Hearing, but it's not noticed for that purpose, is that the
problem?
Nary: That's correct.
De Weerd: That's correct.
Zaremba: Okay.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, in granting the director time
extension, we did require that the multi-family portion meet all the multi-family
requirements in the UDC. That was -- those were the conditions added. What the staff
report doesn't do -- and it limited itself to the UDC. It did not look to the Ten Mile plan.
So, you had no analysis before you of how this complies or does not comply with the
Ten Mile plan and that seems to be the missing piece.
Meridian City Council
April 15, 2008
Page 26 of 81
De Weerd: Now, can you do those comparisons to the Ten Mile specific area plan
under this current application?
Canning: I believe so. The authority given for time extensions basically gives Council
the authority to add any conditions you please based on either new plans or new
standards, so I believe it gives you that flexibility to look at that plan certainly. I can pull
up the code, so we can all look at it.
De Weerd: So, Mr. Nary, can this be continued for that evaluation and consideration to
bring back to the Council to make an informed decision?
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I believe you can and, then, you at least
would have more information than I think we have -- I think the staff s focus and my
focus in looking at this was whether it technically qualifies for a time extension and if
you want to grant that what conditions you can place on it. But as we have discussed
this, we have gone I guess beyond some of the routine types of add-ons that we do for
time extensions to ones where we may want to amend the CU, amend the development
agreement. That may change the complexion of what the approvals and entitlements
are and I just want to be sure that the applicant has adequate time to respond to that. I
feel for Mr. Erhart, because that may not have been why he came here tonight and that
may have been what he was prepared to respond to. There may be a lot more
information that he may need to gather or staff may need to gather and that might be
the fairest way to do that.
De Weerd: Well -- and I imagine it sounds like a lot of this evaluation could be done
under this current time extension application, rather than back under a DA modification.
Correct?
Nary: That is correct. I mean I agree with Mrs. Canning that within -- and maybe this is
kind of the lawyer part of ine. Within reason I think we can add on other conditions.
De Weerd: That's why we love you.
Nary: Yeah. And within reason we can add them on. I think it, obviously, takes some
agreement to get there and I just think there is probably a little gap there to getting that
agreement tonight, but if we have some opportunity to work with the applicant we may
be a little closer than we are today.
De Weerd: Mr. Nary, what time frame are we looking at?
Nary: I-- Mrs. Canning and certainly my office or myself can work with them as well. I
certainly think two weeks is more than enough time. I don't know whether or not there is
time -- a week continuance normally means Thursday. So, that really doesn't give us
very much time for Mr. Erhart to get in to have a real conversation or for the staff, so I'm
just thinking two weeks might be better.
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April 15, 2008
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Rountree: Madam Mayor?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
Nary: Oh, there is no meeting on that night, is there?
De Weerd: No.
Zaremba: That's what I was going to ask.
Bird: We might --
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: No. That wouldn't -- Mr. Borton.
Borton: Milt, can you tell us what week's best for you to that have meeting and come on
back?
Erhart: I still have a mother that's in assisted living and family issues to take care of in
the home state of Kansas and I will be gone two weeks from tonight. But three weeks
from now or four weeks from now I would certainly work with you. I'm sorry. Not finro
weeks.
De Weerd: Four weeks would work for you?
Erhart: Yeah. Three or four weeks. Whatever would work for you.
De Weerd: Okay.
Erhart: The two weeks I just can't be here.
De Weerd: That's fine. Thank you. Okay. Council?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor'?
De Weerd: Oh, Mrs. Canning, did you have any additional comment?
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I did find the code on the Conditionai
Use time extension and it does say that approval of the request for time extension to an
approved Conditional Use shall be determined by the decision making body at a Public
Hearing and will not be granted if any of the following conditions exist. Significant
amendments to the Comprehensive Plan or Unified Development Code have been
adopted that change the basis under which the Conditional Use Permit was granted.
Significant changes in land use that occurred in an area that will impact or impacted by
the project. Hazardous conditions. Community facilities. And, then, just a blanket one,
Meridian City Council
April 15, 2008
Page 28 of 81
the Commission play place additional requirements, modify the previous approval or
deny the request.
De Weerd: Okay. Council?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: In my earlier comments I guess I am sensitive and should note that it's not
necessarily Mr. Erhart's fault that there has been delays in continuation. I think he
probably takes the brunt of having to come up here and get a second extension. But,
hopefully, it's clear what we are trying to -- trying to do, just to make sure that the end
result is right. So, if the applicant's okay with a four week delay, staff can fit that within
their time frame to have these discussions and see how close we are or not close we
are, let's do that. So, I--
De Weerd: Mr. Borton, I guess a three week delay would bring it to May 6, but the 13th
is a workshop. So -- and I think the applicant mentioned three weeks worked as well.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor, while I would like to see this issue resolved, I don't see the
need to unduly delay it. If it can be done in three weeks I certainly would promote that.
Rountree: Right now there is room on the agenda, so --
De Weerd: Okay.
Borton: Madam Mayor, that's fine, as long as it is sensitive to family concerns. If May
6th works, move that we continue Item 14, TE 08-003, to the May 6th agenda.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to continue Item 14 to May 6th. All
those in favor say aye. Okay. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, is that to prepare an analysis to the
Ten Mile plan or --
De Weerd: And also to work with the applicant on the comment that Councilman
Zaremba made regarding the bridge funding.
Zaremba: That's to the west.
Canning: Okay. Thank you for the clarification.
Meridian City Council
April 15, 2008
Page 29 of 81
De Weerd: Okay. And I guess -- Council, I guess I would seek your desire on maybe
looking at anticipated similar situations and how to deal with those as they should arise.
Nary: Madam Mayor, maybe that would be a good discussion topic for the 13th
workshop.
De Weerd: Okay.
Nary: I mean if that's adequate time for Mrs. Canning. Not to volunteer her efforts, but
that might be a great discussion and one of the items we could have a discussion on the
13th.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Anna, thank you for volunteering for the topic.
Canning: For'?
De Weerd: To discuss process or procedure should these time extensions arise and
what kind of evaluation process would you recommend.
Canning: Okay.
Item 15: Continued Public Hearing from April 1, 2008: Outdoor Sales and
Temporary Use Permit Ordinance:
De Weerd: And our stenographer is still not here, so, Council, I would go to -- Item 15 is
a continued Public Hearing from April 1 st on the outdoor sales and temporary use
permit ordinance. Anna.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is a continue Public Hearing, so
I will just give you the update since the last hearing. Mrs. Kane did speak with Mr.
Siddoway, the parks director, and made the necessary changes to the Title 3 document.
We also discovered an edit that was necessary within the Title 11 document, the UDC,
and I sent over a memorandum -- a revised memo that Mr. Hood had originally sent and
it's got some bolds and double underlines. It's in your packet. So, what we needed to
do was acknowledge community events occurring at public parks as accessory uses as
well. So, the UDC just needed to acknowledge that some events that occur at parks
aren't required to get temporary use permits. But I think we have got all the issues
worked out with regard to the parks department. I know Mr. Siddoway is pretty
comfortable with it. I know that you do have some folks here tonight to testify with
regard to the mobile vendor provision in the Title 3 document.
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April 15, 2008
Page 30 of 81
Nary: Is your mike on? Is that mike on? Okay.
De Weerd: Well, now that sounded like it was on.
Canning: I wasn't very far away. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, do I need to
repeat anything given that comment? Okay.
De Weerd: Hopefully the tape picked it all up. Okay.
Canning: I do -- I have the copy of the -- I know that there are some folks here to testify
on the mobile vendors. I forgot to grab a copy of the latest one. I have a digital copy of
the one that was before you at your first April hearing. Those co-provisions for mobile
vendors have not changed, but it has Ms. Sackman's edit next to it. I can bring those up
while they are testifying. I believe they are still here. And with that I will answer any
questions Council may have.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Council, any questions for Mrs. Canning?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: None.
De Weerd: Okay. I do have a number of people who have signed up indicating their
support for this ordinance. If, when I call your name, you would like to provide
testimony, I would ask you to come forward at that time. Angel Lopez signed up for. If
you will, please, state your name and address for the record.
Sera: Hi, Members of the Council and Mayor. My name is Lou Sera and I'm here to
help Angel to translate.
De Weerd: Okay.
Sera: And he's going to ask what he needs. So, thank you for your time.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Sera: Well, he has his mobile truck. It's on the corner of south Meridian and Victory
and would use a time frame of one to four hours complete was from 11:00 to 8:00 and,
then, the permit he got this year is from 11:00 to 3:00. And he is questioning is if he can
get more time for the evening to stay in the hours if he stays on the premises.
Nary: Madam Mayor, could we get his name and address?
De Weerd: We got the translator's name and address. Could we also get Mr. Lopez's.
Meridian City Council
April 15, 2008
Page 31 of 81
Sera: Yes. His name is Angel
street name is K-i-p as Peter,
Way. In Nampa, Idaho. 83651.
Lopez and his address is 11286 West -- I will spell the
. as is Lilly, I is in Idaho, N as in no, G as in George
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. And so he's curious as to if you can extend the hours
beyond the four hour time frame; is that correct?
Sera: It's from 11:00 to 8:00. He's currently from 11:00 to 3:00.
De Weerd: Okay. Okay. And we will ask the planning director to answer that. Mrs.
Canning.
Canning: Sorry.
De Weerd: Okay.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I have to admit I'm not very familiar
with the mobile licensing, so I'm looking it up. I believe that the time limitation is listed in
the definition, so I am going back to the definitions. Angela is how I know him, so I'm
sorry, I missed his last name, but he has been in our office now and diligently following
this and has gotten the necessary temporary use approvals. When he first came in to
our office a couple years ago we didn't have very good or very well defined standards
for kind of traveling restaurants, just for lack of a better name. Those have been -- that
was one of the reasons we wanted to look at amendments to the Unified Development
Code is to address those. As you will recall when I first introduced this to you, one of
the guidelines we felt we had been given was to assist those temporary uses associated
with established uses that had put investments to that -- the property, as opposed to
ones that were perhaps competing with other businesses. Unfortunately, the kind of
traveling restaurants are more on the second side. Now, my understanding of this
vendor at this location is that he actually pulls people into the Double D as well, so it's a
very beneficial relationship. There is not a lot of restaurants in that area. The
landscape workers will come and -- come to the taco -- or the restaurant and they go
and pick up supplies at Double D, so it's a very beneficial relationship. But, again, it's --
the idea of all the temporary uses was to kind of limit those where they weren't making a
real investment in the property and so the time restriction has been pulled back because
we knew we were looking at this upcoming code change when he came in this year for
another temporary use, we limited his hours of operation back from the original basically
two meals to just one meal, so it was the four hour provision. The mobile sales unit
would limit him to only two hours at a location. So, it's going to be further restricted with
this ordinance.
De Weerd: And -- okay. Anna, what was the thoughts behind the further restriction,
outside of the -- now, this -- as I understand it, though, this location is an improved area,
is it not?
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April 15, 2008
Page 32 of 81
Canning: Yes, ma'am, it is, but the -- the truck pulls into just a parking area. It's not
defined as a separate area. A lot of people ask me, well, what's the difference between
this and the Chicago or -- yeah. The Chicago hot dog stand at Rite-Aid? Well, that one
had a permanent CZC. We anticipated it would be there. We put it in an area where it's
not -- where it's not temporary and I guess that's the -- that's the struggle we had
coming up with universal guidelines for these things where we are temporary uses. Do
you want temporary restaurants all over the city? This particular case is very beneficial.
We understand that. We acknowledge that he's been very diligent in coming in and
talking to staff and doing what he needs to do in getting the proper approval, but it's not
always appropriate and it's -- I mean it's -- it's Council's call on this. It's just we were
trying to come up with a consistent way and that's where we are.
De Weerd: Okay. So, you --
Nary: Madam Mayor'?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Sorry, Madam Mayor. I didn't mean to interrupt you. Madam Mayor, Members of
the Council, I mean I guess to supplement what Mrs. Canning said, when we have had
this discussion, I have talked with Mrs. Kane, I mean we have worked trying to create a
difference between essentially a fixed site, like the Chicago hot dog stand, that's
adjacent to Rite-Aid or the accessory use that the -- the food vendor has with Home
Depot that were at fixed locations, versus these mobile units. We were having a
problem from an enforcement standpoint of trying to address mobile units. Not with this
gentleman's business, certainly, but with -- you know, I guess this gentleman's business
is caught in a case where we have many people who -- that time limit is the only thing
we have to capture that type of business and not have it just keep setting up shop in a
different spot every single day. That there -- if you extend it to eight hours every day,
they are going to be all -- all over in place and if that's what the Council's direction is,
that's certainly what we can do. But we are trying to differentiate between truly the
mobile sites that are -- that are going to locations that are setting up for a lunch hour or
two, setting up and leaving and setting up and leaving and that's what we are trying to
capture differently than those that are fixed to the site that are, essentially, accessory to
the site that's there, like those other examples. So, you know, I understand where he's
talking about, that he wants to just be there longer and, again, it's your direction, but you
will, then, have many of these folks wanting to be there longer, four hours, eight hours,
there is not much difference when you start trying to differentiate befinreen eight hours,
ten hours, 12 hours, to them moving it off the site once a day. I mean it makes it really
difficult to try to enforce that later without some distinction between those things. So,
that was the rationale that we were trying to use in crafting those definitions.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor'?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Meridian City Council
April 15, 2008
Page 33 of 81
Zaremba: Is the difference befinreen this gentleman's business and the example you
gave of the hot dog stand outside of Home Depot, the fact that his business has wheels
and he takes the kitchen home to restock every day? I guess my question is does he
stop in two or three locations throughout the city or is this just one location?
Sera: It's one location every day and he has Sunday's off. So, he's in the same place
every day.
Zaremba: So, certainly what I would call a truly mobile vendor who stops by a
construction site for 20 minutes and, then, moves onto another construction site for 20
minutes is a different animal than what this gentleman is doing.
Nary: But, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilman Zaremba, his business
model today is to be at one place every day.
Zaremba: Yes.
Nary: That's how he operates his business. Those other ones don't move. I guess to
be physically -- if it was a trailer that was parked next to Double D every day and didn't
move, that would be more like what's at home Depot, you know, but this one moves.
They all move and when they start moving, that's -- the problem is that they aren't
always in one location. He happens to have a relationship with Double D that he can be
there, but many of these will be on Eagle Road today, Franklin tomorrow, Meridian
Road another day, they are all over the place and it is very difficult to keep track of that
when they are hopping from one to another. So, it just happens to be how he can
choose to do it. It doesn't mean he's required to do it that way.
Zaremba: Could we condition his permit such that it's this address and says that's the
only location the permit's good?
Nary: Mrs. Canning, 1 don't recall discussing that, if that's the only location we would
allow it to be if you wanted to exceed that.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilmember Zaremba, no, we
had not considered conditions to the mobile vendor permit. Angel is still under the UDC
right now, so that permit is under Title 11 and that gives the planning department some
authority to do that, but that will be gone upon adoption of this document. The struggle
that I think you're having is the difference befinreen a temporary use and a permanent
use. And that was one of the struggles we had as well in developing this. There are
some uses that want to come in for a temporary use approval because they were not
prepared to make the investment in the property. And the UDC allowed those before,
but the current code does not. We have talked to this gentleman about getting a
permanent CZC and that's really what's appropriate. If he wants to be there for two
meals a day or for more than two hours a day, we need to get a permanent site for him.
Whether that's a permanent place for him to bring in his on a separate landscape island,
so that he's not taking up -- I mean so that it looks kind of like it was more than just
Meridian City Council
April 15, 2008
Page 34 of 81
pulling into an existing parking space, I think we could do that. Unfortunately, he
doesn't have the resources at this time to accomplish that. But those -- I think that that's
what Council is -- the struggle you're seeing here is that it's a good thing, why can't it
stay. But it's not really a temporary use is the concern. Once it's there for all day, how
is -- it's no longer a temporary use.
De Weerd: It's an interesting scenario. As you can see, it's a difficult one, because it is
unique. And it kind of falls in befinreen.
Sera: Yeah. One comment I have need to do is last year he was leaving the vehicle at
the place and this year he applied for a permit again that he has to do every year. He
was told he's a mobile and now he has to have four hours because he's a mobile. So,
now that it's hard for him to take the vehicle home or somewhere else every day and
bring it back every day. As it used to be that he used to leave it there last year, so I
think that's why he -- that's how he got the permit last year that he was -- I don't know if
he filled out the wrong form for this permit this year maybe as one --
De Weerd: Well, it sounds like that he's either temporary or permanent. If he's
permanent he can park it there, but he would have to make certain improvements. He
could not do those improvements, so they said the easiest way for him to continue
business there is as temporary. But now that temporary would be limited under this
new code. So, I-- did I answer that correctly? It sounds like he had finro choices there,
either he's permanent, he keeps it there, but if he keeps it there he has certain
conditions to -- for improvements as a condition of keeping it there. If he chooses not to
do that, then, he would be considered temporary, he's right now allowed the four hours,
but under the new code it would be two hours. So, that's the choice.
Zaremba: I might -- Madam Mayor, I might add one other question. That would be
whether the property owner might help him make improvements. He's being beneficial
to them.
Sera: He was very happy with him, by the way, the owner of the property. He's very
happy with him, because he brought business to his business by having the truck there,
people stop there and they always get gas and stuff like that, so --
De Weerd: Council, any other questions for Mr. Lopez?
Rountree: I have none.
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Thank you. Certainly Council will take the comments under advisement as
they look at this ordinance.
Sera: Can I make one last comment?
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April 15, 2008
Page 35 of 81
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Sera: He wants to also tell the Council and your place in Meridian he's going over here
and see if he can operate in the evening in a different location. That's what he was told
as well.
De Weerd: It sounds like that would be consistent with what's being proposed.
Canning: And Madam Mayor Members of the Council, the way the code reads is that
he's not -- he can't remain within any 300 square foot area, which isn't a very big area.
So, he just has to move it every couple of hours is what it is, but he had talked about --
he had talked about being at Double D and, then, at Lowe's during the evening and
that's certainly permissible. He can travel all over the city with the mobile vendor permit.
He's not limited to one site. Now, he could -- he could stop at a construction site on the
way to Lowe's and set up shop for a little bit there. So, there is a lot of different
opportunities afforded by the mobile vendor license than what he's got now, but it does
require him to move about a bit.
De Weerd: Well, certainly we are always open for other ideas, Council, so -- thank you
so much.
Zaremba: The other idea is permanent and that requires a couple of improvements.
Sera: In order to get those permanent requirements who would he need to see -- to see
what is required for him to be a permanent?
De Weerd: Well, sir, right now this is a proposal in front of the Council.
Sera: Okay.
De Weerd: And they can certainly approve it as proposed, they can consider
modifications to it, and that's what the testimony being sought tonight is about.
Sera: Thank you very much.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Thank you so much. And Erica is also part of the
group? Okay. Thank you. Is there any other testimony on this issue? Okay. Anna?
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this perhaps is the only remaining
issue. If Council would like us to -- would like to provide direction on what they'd like to
see. Otherwise, I think we have resolved all the issues and have the support of the
Chamber of Commerce and we are ready to go.
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Meridian City Council
April 15, 2008
Page 36 of 81
Zaremba: I think just my personal opinion is I would like to see him qualify for the
permanent position.
Canning: And Mrs. Najoua has talked to him about that. It's just -- I think it is a financial
burden at this point, but --
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I believe you said this is at Double D?
Isn't that correct?
De Weerd: Yes.
Nary: Yeah. And if you recall, Giuseppe's came with the same issue. He had a coffee
stand there, has the same problem in -- trying to get the permanent improvements to
the site were problematic. But for pouble D and the way their operation works, as well
as him financially as well, so, you know, I think the concern is that maybe what Mr.
Lopez -- in the past he was allowed to be in the parking lot and that the problem is what
we are trying to get away from is people camping, essentially, in the parking lot all over
different spots of town for four hours, six hours, eight hours and just setting up shop in a
parking lot and we are trying to get away from that, which is why, as Mrs. Canning
stated, like in the Taste of Chicago, we strongly encouraged that they movie,
essentially, up against the building for that very reason, so that they would be out of the
parking lot, they would be more accessory to the business. Same thing with Home
Depot and the like. So, we were trying to, again, draw that distinction for permanent
fixed locations that they were, essentially, more of a-- of a site that's not mobile, not in
the parking 1ot, not just taking up one parking space or two parking spaces, if you recall
back, Taste of Chicago had tables and chairs and umbrellas and stands and fences alt
in the parking lot, all of a sudden the parking lot wasn't for parking anymore. And so
that's where -- that's why we are trying to draw this distinction is to -- to eliminate that
type of operation. If they were going to be permanent, then, they would have to have
some improvements that really made them more fixed to the business.
De Weerd: It seems that there is a desire to figure out how this can be different, since it
is in an improved area and there is a permanency to a certain degree to it, just can't
park it on the sidewalk, because the site probably isn't conducive to that. Is there
something that can be bumped back perhaps if --
Canning: Well, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, if -- I don't think you're talking
about changes to the mobile vendors, I think you're asking is there a way for Angel to
have a permanent CZC and that's a very different question than the one that's before
you right now. I think we tried to minimize what we could, but we can work with him --
we can continue to work with him on that. Mrs. Najoua has been working with him. I
Meridian City Council
April 15, 2008
Page 37 of 81
can't remember exactly what we told him at this point, but I can get involved again and
we can see what we can do to make him permanent.
De Weerd: And that would not be influenced by this particular ordinance.
Canning: No.
De Weerd: Okay.
Canning: And we have encouraged him to move that way.
De Weerd: Okay. And you are telling him what that discussion was? Okay. Council,
any other questions?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: I have none.
De Weerd: Is there any additional testimony? Okay. Sounds like a concluding remark
to me. Council, any -- or, staff, any further comments? Okay. Council?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I move we close the Public Hearing on the outdoor sales temporary use
permit ordinance.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to close Item 15. All those in favor
say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 16: Ordinance No. 08-1354 : Outdoor Sales and Temporarv Use
Permit Ordinance (3rd Reading):
De Weerd: Okay. Item 16 is Ordinance No 08-1354. Madam Clerk, will you, please,
read this ordinance by title only.
Holman: Thank you, Madam Mayor. This is the third reading of City of Meridian
Ordinance No. 08-1354. An ordinance of the City of Meridian replacing Chapter 4, Title
3 of the Meridian City Code relating to outdoor sales and temporary uses. Providing for
definitions, regulating mobile sales units, regulating temporary uses, providing for a
citizens use permit, and providing for a savings clause.
Meridian City Council
April 15, 2008
Page 38 of 81
De Weerd: Okay. You have heard this ordinance read by title only. Is there anyone
who would like to hear it read in its entirety? Okay. Seeing none, this is the third
reading. Council?
Bird: Madam Mayor, I move we approve Ordinance 08-1354.
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to approve this ordinance under Item
16. Any discussion? Hearing none, Madam Clerk, will you, please, call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 11: Public Hearing: AZ 07-016 Request for Annexation and Zoning of
224.29 acres from RR to R-2 zone (45.14 acres) and R-8 zone (179.16
acres) for Castle Rock by Providence Development Group, LLC - south
of East Amity Road and west of South Eagle Road:
Item 12: Public Hearing: PP 07-020 Request for Preliminary Plat approval
consisting of 794 residential building lots and 86 common / other lots on
181.11 acres in proposed R-2 and R-8 zones for Castle Rock by
Providence Development Group, LLC - south of East Amity Road and
west of South Eagle Road:
Item 13: Public Hearing: PUD 07-001 Request for approval of a Planned Unit
Development for deviations from district requirements to provide an
opportunity for exemplary site development for Castle Rock by
Providence Development Group, LLC - south of East Amity Road and
west of South Eagle Road:
De Weerd: Okay. Council, it doesn't look like we will have a stenographer anytime
soon, so let's go ahead and consider Items 11, 12 and 13. I will reopen these public
hearings and ask for staff comments.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is the Castle Rock project. It is
located on the west side of Eagle Road -- hey, there you go. Located on the west side
of Eagle Road befinreen Amity and Lake Hazel. The applications before you tonight are
annexation, preliminary plat, and planned unit development. Here is an aerial. I'm
going to skip forward a little bit. What happened to our -- I apologize, I thought there
was one of the annexation versus the plat area. Oh. It was on the first map. I'm sorry.
As you will notice, the annexation area includes the existing subdivision. The plat area
is just -- it excludes those. The applicant is requesting approval of annexation of 224.29
to R-2, which would be 45 acres, and R-8 with -- at 179 acres. The preliminary plat
Meridian City Council
April 15, 2008
Page 39 of 81
consists of 794 single family residential building lots and 99 common lots on 182 acres
in those proposed R-2 and R-8 districts. The planned unit development is for deviations
from the R-8 district requirements pertaining to lot size, street frontage, and building
setbacks. The gross residential density is 4.38 dwelling units per acre overall, which
means for the annexation area that I showed you before. No? I'm being told that's for
the plat. I apologize. 3.7 for the annexation area. The dimensional standards for the
PUD you haven't talked about these ever before, so you have not had many planned
unit developments. I gave you -- or in your staff report was a list of -- table of the Castle
Rock dimensional standards. Basically, they were asking for reduced setback for living
areas from the street, as well as living areas to alleys, and a reduction in the minimum
lot size and, then, a reduction in the lots. I did want to point out that their lot frontage,
because of the coving concept that was introduced to you at previous hearings, they do
meet the frontage -- our UDC frontage requirement at the setback line, but they don't
meet it at street, because of the curved nature of those streets.
Holman: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, do you mind if we pause for just a
moment, so I can change the tape? I'd like to have tape recordings of this without the
stenographer here. Okay. Go ahead.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Canning: The proposed site amenities -- there are eight of them and they include the
following: The applicant is providing almost 40 acres of usable open space, which is
about 21.7 percent of the total development area. Also, they have -- there is pathways
and micro paths that were proposed within the common areas, some of which connect
to the multi-use pathway along the Ten Mile Creek and you run along the Beasley
Lateral. There is a neighborhood park proposed that contains a gazebo, tot lot, and
basketball court. There is also a gazebo proposed within the common areas within the
subdivision. There is a pocket park proposed that would have a tot lot and, then, there
is another pocket park proposed that would have a tot lot and a pond. And, then, there
are picnic tables proposed throughout the common areas and, then, finally, they are
proposing an 8.8 acre park that is intended to be dedicated to the city as part of the
development. ACHD did submit conditions of approval for the project and they included
a signal that would be required at Teconic and Eagle intersection when the signal
warrants are met. After -- let's see. When the signal warrants are met based on signal
analysis submitted to the district each final plat after the final platting of the 400th lot.
So, once they hit 400 lots they have to start doing analysis with each final plat to
determine when the signal is warranted. And, then, the Amity-Eagle intersection will
need to be fully improved as identified in the district's capital improvement plan prior to
final platting of the 127th lot. I did want to note for Council's recollection, I suppose, the
Council did remand this project back to the Commission and ask for the Commission to
specifically consider the following items: One, to make a new recommendation based
on the revised plat and they have done that for you. Two, to consider the traffic impact
of this development on Eagle Road between the site in the interchange, specifically the
Eagle-Victory intersection. Three, to consider not only the maintenance, but the
ownership of the coved areas and who has the right to do or not to do what within the
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coved areas. Four. Reconsideration of the revised densities in relationship to the
Comprehensive Plan and the recently approved south Meridian area plan. And, five,
consider requiring South Carlisle Way to stub to the east property boundary across the
Ten Mile Creek for connectivity on future development of the property across the creek.
The applicant has provided elevations and I'm sure they will go through these in more
detail. But we have elevations for the three different series, Cottage, Legend, and
village. And, then, there are some custom homes proposed within the larger lot areas.
There was a-- there is a DA proposed with this. The kind of site specific conditions of
that DA include that only uses allowed on the property are single family detached
homes and allowed accessory uses in the R-2 and the R-8 zoning districts. A ten foot
wide multi-use pathway shall be constructed on the site on the south side of the Ten
Mile Creek and, then, the applicant shall construct a minimum 8.8 acre neighborhood
park on the site and dedicate that to the city. Construction materials used on the wall
surfaces of the structure shall incorporate a minimum of three different types of
materials and those materials may include the following: Vertical and horizontal siding.
Board and batten. Shingles. Shakes. Hard board. scallops. Stucco. Brick. Or stone.
And those are per the Castle Rock design guidelines. But noted that balustrades, which
were originafly proposed as a wall material, were not approved or recommended for
approval. And, then, all structure shall substantially comply with the building elevations.
The parks department did send you a letter, I believe it's in your staff report, and I
believe that the parks director is going to testify. So, I will let him do that after I'm done.
The Commission did recommend approval at their March 6th, 2008, Public Hearing.
Jerry Armstrong from Providence Development Group spoke in favor of the application.
Martin Fabricius, Carol Jarvis, Ray Eggleston, Justin Thiel, Don Cantrell, Tom -- Tim
Foster. There we go. Tom Sylvester. And Tim Taylor signed up in opposition of the
project, but did not offer testimony. And, then, Pat Fabricius -- sorry Pat. It was an
inadvertent slip of the tongue. Dan Lisberry and another person whose name was
illegible, also testified or signed up. Commenting were none. Written testimony was
provided by Russ Fulcher, Larry Wickham, and Debbie Wickham. Jerry Smith and
Martin Fabricius, all in opposition. Key issues of discussion by the Commission were
the outstanding issues from Council on their January 22nd hearing. Landscaping and
maintenance responsibility at the coved public areas on the individual homeowner lots,
the depth and flow of the lateral and pond adjacent to the tot lot in relation to the
children's safety. The use and benefit agreement for the Village units, allowing property
owners to use the adjacent side yards for a larger yard area. And, then, the extension
of South Carlisle Way to the east stubbing at the canal. The key Commission changes
were that they added a condition of approval for the applicant to provide a 42 foot wide
easement for the extension of South Carlisle Way to the west property boundary for
access to the Fulcher property. They added a condition of approval for the applicant to
work with staff to relocate the tot lot depicted on Lot 27, Block 43, away from the lateral
and the pond and they added a condition of approval for the applicant to install fencing
along the south property boundary adjacent to the Don Cantrell property. Outstanding
issues for the City Council. The Council should determine if an easement for the future
extension of South Carlisle Way is appropriate or if Carlisle should be extended as a
public street to the east property boundary with development of the subdivision. The
applicant has not yet contacted staff for the relocation of the tot lot depicted on Lot 27
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away from the lateral and pond. And, then, with regard to written testimony, since the
staff did part, Sheri Ewing sent an e-mail expressing concerns about the inability of the
road system to handle the anticipated traffic from the development and, then, the parks
and recreation department noting the decision of the parks and recreation commission,
which I mentioned previously. And with that I will answer any questions that Council
may have and Mayor.
De Weerd: Council, I guess I would note also for the record Justin Thiel has sent an e-
mail today, which is copied in front of you, we also received a letter from Senator
Fulcher, Monte and Jackie Anderson, and Lee and Karen Adams you all have copies of.
Bird: Madam Mayor'?
De Weerd: Yes.
Bird: I also received an e-mail From senator Fulcher.
De Weerd: Okay.
Rountree: We all have it.
De Weerd: Okay.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I also received an e-mail from Senator Fulcher, but it, essentia{{y, conveyed
the letter that you have already talked about.
De Weerd: Okay. Okay. Any questions for staff at this time?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Seeing none, the applicant --
Zaremba: Oh, Madam Mayor'?
De Weerd: Yes. Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Is staff complete? I thought the parks director was going to make a
comment.
De Weerd: Oh, I'm sorry.
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Canning: Madam Mayor, members of the Council, we are going to rely on the
applicant's picture of the park, though, so that's okay. Yeah.
Siddoway: Madam Mayor, members of the Council, the proposed neighborhood park in
this subdivision did go before the parks and recreation commission at their March 12th
meeting. At that meeting the proposal from the applicant was reviewed in detail and the
Commission does recommend approved of the proposed neighborhood park, as
proposed by the applicant. They also forwarded, as part of their discussion, two specific
options for the Council to consider in relation to the park. One regarding the timing of
construction and the second regarding the financial roles and responsibilities befinreen
the developer and the city. Regarding the timing of construction, the proposal from the
developer was to construct the park in conjunction with the 300th building permit.
According to calculations that is the point at which the city will have received enough
park impact fees from this development to cover the anticipated costs incurred by the
city for the construction of the park. However, we have also had, you know, issues with
previous parks, as I understand, such as Seasons Park where the development went in
first and the park was held back to future phases and there were issues with neighbors
always wanting to know when is that park going to be built. So, the Commission does
recommend that that park be funded and phased as early as possible and the developer
was agreeable to that. Second, on the financial roles and responsibilities, the
Commission is in favor of the arrangement as proposed by the applicant, with -- with an
estimated value from Hubble Homes of about 1.4 million dollars and Meridian Parks
Department contributions of about 400,000. The -- as noted in the recommendation,
there are some changes in relation to the responsibilities. When you compare it to the
one that was forwarded back in, I believe, November of last year, most notably in that
original -- in the original proposal the parking lot, pathways, and trees were part of the
developer's responsibility. Under the current proposal those responsibilities are shifting
to the city. In response to the larger park acreage that's being offered -- previously, they
were offering about 7.2 acres, they are currently offering about 8.8 acres. So, the
option that the Commission sent forward is to, A, either go with the revised roles as
proposed by the developer or, B, we could shift the parking lot, pathways, and trees
back to Hubble Homes' responsibility and offer to pay an appraised value for the
additional 1.6 acres. Those are the finro options that were forwarded by the Commission
and I would stand for any questions.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Siddoway. Any questions from Council?
Bird: Not at this time.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Sorry. Would the applicant like to come forward?
Armstrong: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, my name is Jerry Armstrong. 701
Allen Street, Meridian, Idaho. I'm vice-president of planning and land development for
the Provident Development Group. I will be really brief this evening and not do a lot of
redundancy that you have already seen. But what's important in this latest concept that
you have not seen and the last time you saw it the park was located over here, we have
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worked with the parks commission in building a larger park, moving it over to this area,
which is more central. This is a half mile section from Eagle Road, so it will be more
central to everybody within that square mile is the neighborhood park. The other thing
that we have added are custom lots. We have our Legend series here, which is an
upgraded unit, as well as our patio homes here. And, then, our alley-loaded product
down here. Next. Okay. What I wanted to address were the five concerns that came
up from the last City Council members. One was that you requested that the Planning
and Zoning Commission make a recommendation based on the revised layout, which
they have. Review the impact of the development specifically on Eagle and Victory
intersection. And, then, talk about the maintenance and ownership of the coved area,
as well as the project density as it relates not only to the vested Comprehensive Plan,
but also the south Meridian area study, as well as the stub street connection on South
Carlisle Way. So, address these one at a time. Planning and Zoning recommendation,
they reviewed this revised layout, which incorporates the City Council's five concerns.
The Commission was pleased with the redesigned plan and the effort by Hubble Homes
to provide an innovative, exciting, and more affordable project in this area of Meridian.
On March 6th, 2008, the Planning and Zoning Commission voted to recommend
approval of Castle Rock to this City Council. Next. Second was the impact of -- the
second one was the impacts on Eagle Road, specifically Eagle and Victory intersection.
What we are proposing in off-site improvements at our own cost at the 400th lot that, we
would put in the full signalized intersection at Eagle and Teconic. If a study after the
hundredth lot proves that we need it sooner, we will do it at a sooner time. The interim
signal, again, would go in at Amity and Eagle and, then, the other condition was we
voluntarily are contributing 300,000 dollars to the light at Eagle and Victory. The reason
for that is because one of the concerns of this Council was to get a time commitment on
when that would be constructed. So, what we committed to in writing is that the ACHD
would build that in 2010 when we make the 300,000 dollar donation. Just know this is
our impact fees. Other than the traffic lights that will go to solve a lot of the issues out
there along that road, for the 794 units, we will be contributing 2,610 dollars per lot.
That is a little over two million dollars and that money has to be spent specifically in this
yellow area, which will help solve problems in that area. Transportation -- we have the
connection at the 50th lot through White Bark Subdivision, which connects this to Amity
Road, that gives us the second road. The site is located within bicycle distance, three
miles of major employment and commercial developments on Eagle Road. This is per
the staff report. On site recreational opportunities, we will reduce the number of vehicle
trips per day generated by this development through the recreational opportunities
provided. There is a possibility of a Valley Ride shuttle in cooperation with St. Luke's. A
program they currently -- what they call an employee transportation alternatives
program, which is nationally recognized, and we are working with other major
employers in the near vicinity. A future Valley Ride transit stop to be located on Eagle
Road will be constructed within the first phase of this project. Staff, again, is very
supportive of the proposed bus stop and other transit opportunities available with this
development for the staff report. Ownership and maintenance of the coved area, we
discussed this last time. The coved areas and all front yards will be landscaped by the
developer prior to closing. All coved areas will be owned and maintained by the
individual property owners. The coved areas will receive special attention in the
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CC&R's and weekly monitoring by a property management firm will insure the upkeep of
these unique lots. If you look in this blowup of the coving, which we didn't show last
time, you notice how the sidewalk meanders through this green area. The only
difference is -- is most sidewalks you usually attach out here at the curb, but, again, the
lawn and the maintenance in front of those homes is maintained by the individual
owners. What this does is create a natural open space in front of each of those homes,
so from the street it appears as if it's much larger lots, more like the quarter, half acre
lots that you normally see. Meridian's Comprehensive Plan as approved in October
2006 allows for three units per acre in this green area. That's outside of the Black Rock
area. We are proposing 2.98. We redesigned it for that. In the additional area that
that's approved for three to eight units, we are at a density of a little over five units per
acre. If you add the two properties together, the overall density is around 4.38 units per
acre. Castle Rock is vested under the Comprehensive Plan that was adopted by the
city in 2006. Excluding Black Rock, the proposed Castle Rock development is allowed
1,246 lots. Our proposal for 794 lots is well below the allowed density for this project.
Even in taking into consideration the south Meridian Comprehensive Plan, which was
recently adopted, it allows for -- in the total area at three units per acre, which is this
green area that's showing in this overall vicinity map here. Under your current one we
are allowed 540 units. In the yellow area we are allowed to develop up to eight units
per acre. That's 354, which is a total of 894. The recently adopted Comprehensive
Plan allows for the 894. We are asking for 694, plus if you include the 44 Black Rock,
that comes out to 838. And that's all been programmed into your new Comprehensive
Plan for transportation needs and public facilities in that area. Therefore, the overall
density for the annexation requested is 3.7 units per acre. Castle Rock is consistent
with your vision for this area of the city as approved by this Council in February of this
year. Carlisle easement. We have shown on the preliminary plat for this application a
42 foot access easement in favor of the Fulcher family. We are also going to provide,
as was suggested by Councilman Zaremba, a sign indicating future extension of road
will be placed at this location. Revised neighborhood park. The 8.8 acres, as it's
relocated here, is central to the square mile section and it provides unique opportunities
based on topography that's not found in any other Meridian park. The new location has
fewer building lots along its perimeter, which was an issue in the previous idea. The
finai design was approved by the parks commission on March 12th, 2008. This is that
park. What it offers is it's backed up against this hill. We have about 40 foot difference
in elevation that provides us with an opportunity to add an amphitheater that would be
also used in the winter, because it faces to the north, wouid be a siedding hill for young
kids. There would be a shelter here as a warm-up hut for them to do winter activities.
There is also restrooms. There is a teenage playing area. There is tot lots in here. As
well as life trail stations around this. We also have backing up to that play field sledding
hill going down, so people watching soccer games or football games can be sitting on
the side slopes. This was an item that was -- we recommended to -- to the parks
commission was 8.8 acres and so the donation by Hubble Homes is 1.462 million
dollars. The parks department contribution will be around 400,000. Just a reminder,
the impact fees from the parks for the 794 lots at 1,384 dollars, will generate almost 1.1
million dollars, well in excess. This is a similar scenario based on the original proposal,
which was 7.19 acres, with doing more options in here. Again, the total donation is
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April 15, 2008
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around 1.4 million dollars and the parks, then, would purchase the added property as
1.6 acres for, again, around 476,000 dollars for their share. And was told to you by the
parks director, we are interested and we would offer this up right at the beginning if you
want to do -- if you want to come up with your part of that contribution, we will start the
park in the first phase. Open space amenities. Again, there is almost 40 acres on this
site. 8.8 acres, which is a donation to the city. We have village green pocket parks,
gazebos, it's a walk-able health-oriented community. We have provided the lateral
linear park along the Beasley lateral, as well as landscape buffers along Ten Mile Creek
and the spine road. Again, recreational opportunities for all ages. Staff, again, is very
supportive of the open space common area proposed in this development and believes
that it will be an asset or assist providing a great sense of community in the
neighborhood. That's from their staff report. Trail system and connectivity. We have
offered up to provide the ten foot wide regional path that will be extended clear to Eagle
Road. And you can see it here in the dark green, which is different than what we had
last time. Over five miles of paths and trails, clear internal lengths, so you're not walking
alongside roads. Thirty-nine acres of connected open space. Again, staff believes that
the proposed land use concepts, such as coving, clustering, and interconnectivity, the
pathway system throughout the common area, should provide a unique type of
development, with many recreational opportunities available to the residents. Creative
architecture. Again, four distinctive housing styles. I'm not going to go through them.
They all have front porches, corner elevations, facade modulation, a variety of
materials, a minimum of three housing diversity comprehensive design guidelines.
Again, staff has reviewed these guidelines and found them to represent exemplary
design features that will result in a unique and innovative residential development. This
is out of their staff report. Again, this is the Legend neighborhood. You can see they
have front porches. They have rock. They have facade modulation. And all the
facades are different. Cottage. What happens here is the living area is out in front of
the garage space. Here is a map of the street relationship. Here you can see the
modulation. The yellow is represented where the garage will be and these are just five
different housing styles. The living space will actually come out in front of that garage.
You can see that in kind of the brown. And also by a porch and it extends out a
minimum of ten feet in front of the plane of the garage, so the garages are all located
behind the front plane by ten feet. Front porch and living areas are in that area. We
drew on the design principals by Blueprint For Good Growth. These are actual
statements, these are the goals right out of Blueprint For Good Growth. Densities at
this level help to support future transit system in the area and provides a range of
densities, housing types, and price levels, promotes strong community identity through
unique design and community values. Meets marketing demand and provides much
needed affordable housing the public is demanding. Pedestrian friendly neighborhood
located in proximity to green space and public amenities. Again, from your staff report
more density subdivisions, such as proposed, along with design futures, such as coving,
allow for a more efficient and cost-effective provision of public services. Approvals.
City staff recommends approval of Castle Rock and we are in full agreement with the
staff report conditions of approval. The ACHD board of commissioners approved Castle
Rock on December 12th, 2007. Your Planning and Zoning Commission recommended
approval to the City Council on March 6th, 2008. And your parks commission has
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recommended approval to the City Council for Castle Rock on March 12th of 2008.
Why here? There is an opportunity to provide more affordable workforce housing within
close proximity to jobs. Proximity to Lake Hazel and Eagle Roads, which are major
east-west, north-south connections in the Treasure Valley. More affordable housing in
this area of the city will help job housing balance in Meridian. You can see the location
of Castle Rock here. You're within two miles of major employers here. St. Luke's three
miles, which currently over 80 percent of their employees live outside of Meridian. Blue
Cross, 87 percent of their -- or 83 percent of their people live outside of Meridian,
because there is not affordable housing choices. You have approved in your new
Comprehensive Plan a future neighborhood center, which will be right next door. It's
walk-able to Castle Rock. Also future commercial within one mile of Castle Rock, which
is all walk-able. Why now? Adequate public facilities are being provided by the
development through -- by us extending the sewer and water and neighborhood park
and major transportation contributions. Market forces and high land values are creating
the need for quality single family homes on smaller more affordable lots. The approvals
for this project will guarantee intersection improvements along Eagle Road that
otherwise will not occur for many years.
De Weerd: Mr. Armstrong, can you summarize.
Armstrong: This is it. Opportunity for Meridian to step forward in its desire to create
more affordable housing choices for its employers and residents. So, we thank you for
your favorable consideration.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions at this point?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: On the -- what's currently being called an easement for the extension of
South Carlisle, would you be able to make that a natural stub street? The issue to me is
in order to make that usable, who is going to build the street? If -- if at sometime the
neighboring property needs that access, they are not likely to come onto your property
and build a street. ACHD doesn't voluntarily build streets over easements, they accept
streets that are already existing, and what I originally envisioned was that that would be
a stub street that would go all the way to the property line. Is that a doable thing?
Armstrong: Madam Mayor, Commissioner -- or Councilman Zaremba, yes, we would be
willing to do it as a stub street. It's an easement which would be in favor of the -- of the
Fulchers, so that they could come on and build that. But we would be happy to build a
stub street. If you -- if that's your preference to see that, rather than landscaping there,
we would be happy to do it.
Zaremba: Thank you.
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Aprii 15, 2008
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De Weerd: Okay. Council, any other questions?
Rountree: Not at this time.
Bird: I have none at this time.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: If I may, before we take up public testimony, I'd like to refer to Senator
Fulcher's letter and, actually, pick the brains of our City Attorney Mr. Nary. Senator
Fulcher mentioned a bill that changed annexation laws and, if possible, could you give it
a description of how that changed and did it affect voluntary annexation such as this?
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilmember Zaremba, what the --
what the state legislature did in House Bill 545, which was cite by Senator Fulcher, was
they -- the prior language in category A annexation, which were the voluntary
annexations in the state code, the prior language said -- or the language that's in place
until July 1 st of this year was that annexation where all private land owners raise no
objection to annexation. What now the court -- the law will say after July 1 st is all
private land owners that have consented. So, they have to have specific consent. The
issue had been in other sections of the state is what was -- what consent existed.
Sometimes, like in Meridian, we get a specific consent to annex as part of offering
services to that particular homeowner. In other jurisdictions the state -- the staff used to
have what was termed implied consent where they had -- services were hooked up and
the statute as it was read back then -- or I guess prior to July 1 st of this year, said that
having services hooked up was implied consent. Now, the statute will say that you have
to have specific consent. So, I don't think the circumstances of Castle Rock and what
Senator Fulcher's talking about, about being outside of the city area of impact have
changed at all. The language is exactly the same in regards to that. The only issue is
now the consent must be specific, rather than implied. There was a case out of eastem
Idaho that the court ruled that on exactly that point, that merely having services was not
enough, that you needed specific approval from a property owner. So, that's all been
cleared up. I hope that answers your question.
Zaremba: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Anything further from Council? I do have a number of
people who have signed up. I will read your name, if you would like to provide
testimony at that time, please, come forward. Sheri Ewing go signed up against.
Harvey Cappel signed up against. Brad Hofhines signed up against.
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Hofhines: Madam Mayor, City Council, I'm Brad Hofhines. I presently live in Black
Rock Subdivision. 2495 East Sinai.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Hofhines: I would tell you I have lived there since October and this was my first notice
that I have received about this subdivision we just got last month. So, I apologize for --
maybe it's too late for me to say what I want to say, if this is done. There are three
other homeowners up there at this time, two of them have received a notice, others
have not. I can tell you they are against this. Here is my concerns. I moved out of a
neighborhood in Kuna in October because we were surrounded by Hubble Homes. And
what we started to find is the neighborhood -- I want to say started to go downhill.
There was about three homes that I know of that ended up with finro to four families
living in those homes. Many of these homes started to become rentals and the
properties were not taken care of. We started to find kids roaming that neighborhood
late at night causing a lot of noise. We backed up to the Hubble subdivision. We
started having concerns about damage being done. So, that was one of the biggest
reasons that we decided to leave. I'm concerned what this neighborhood is going to
look like in a couple of years. I have a nephew that is in Charter Point and this sounds
like it's going to be a lot like Charter Point. He has been there two years and his was a
newer home, but he has already made comment that he sees the neighborhood going
down and they are looking to move. But he's in one of those -- I don't know what you
call those homes where the garage is behind the house there. So, he's already finding
a concern. Certainly I have a concern where we are in Black Rock, you know, these are
-- you know, our home is over 600,000. They were going to be all homes of that
amount. I'm concerned what our property value is going to do when all of that gets built
in there. Certainly concerned about the traffic. I come up Eagle and Victory and that
already takes -- I'm sure you're all aware takes me ten to 15 minutes to get just from the
fire station to Victory Road. So, certainly, there is those concerns. But, you know, that's
-- I guess that was my biggest concern is just what that neighborhood is going to turn
out to be like in the future and, you know, our -- believe me, { want everybody to have
affordable housing, I have two sons right now, 21 and 24, that are looking for homes.
So, I can tell you both of them are adamant they will not be in a Hubble Home
Subdivision, because they have seen what they do down the road. So, I'm adamantly
against it. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Darwin McKay or Ann Miller signed up against.
Miller: I am Mary Ann Miller. My address is 14210 Cyprus Ballscott Drive, Cyprus,
Texas. I'm a little away from home, but I have property right next to this subdivision. I
own a fair amount -- I'm a part owner of a fair amount of property next to the
subdivision. I'm adamantly against this subdivision. I have several concerns. Number
one concern is the fact that my father owned this property and he was a life long
member of the Meridian community. He lived on that property for over 64 years. He
sold that to Mr. McMasters and they had an agreement on what that subdivision would
become. And I know that the Fulchers had also sold land and I don't know what their
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Apri- 15, 2008
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agreement was, but I know what our agreement was with Mr. McMasters and that
subdivision was to have homes and acreage anywhere from a quarter -- most of them
were going to be half acre to an acre, acre and a half home lots. There were to be
trails. There was to be nature trails. There would be other things. That subdivision got
started and, then, it was sold to Hubble Homes. That was not my father's intent and he
would never have sold it had it been. The other question I have -- and I do not know if
you as the City Council and as Mayor have considered this, but we have already heard
of one subdivision that has gone under because of financing. Have you really looked at
Hubble Homes financing and can they even go ahead and do what they even propose?
One of the things that really concerns me is that because I have seen some of the other
plots and their proposed ideas for this -- they had considerably larger areas, more
frontage, bigger areas for the homes and they have made it more dense even since
then, which tells me that financially that they have issues and problems and I think that's
something that really needs to be looked into. For them to get something like that
started and not be able to complete that would be very detrimental, but I believe that
that property and what they are doing to it is not within keeping of what my father
wanted and certainly not within keeping of what those people that are buying their lots
up on the hill are -- some who have bought their lots, what it was supposed to have
been. I'm also very concerned about what it will do to our property value of our property
that we still have there and also what it will do to the traffic and other things in that area.
I think it will considerably devalue that entire area and I don't think that's what the City of
Meridian really wants it to do. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Rountree: I have a question for Mrs. Miller.
Miller: Yes.
Rountree: You made references multiple times that your family had sold this property
with the intent of something different. Was that sale contractually bound by some deed
restriction or was it just a hand shake deal?
Miller: It was a hand -- it was a hand shake deal and it was a verbal deal of intent. And
to me and to my father that was as good as gold and there was some of the things in
that contract of -- was that it -- there was in the original contract that we had of how that
would be formed and would they would do and I still have that copy. I don't have it with
me. But we do have a copy of that and they -- and it was specifically stated in there that
they would honor dad's wishes in that original contract. And that they would make it
something of value to him and to that area. And that was in the original contract when
the land was sold.
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April 15, 2008
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De Weerd: Did that answer your question?
Rountree: Sure.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Miller: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Did you wish to provide testimony? Okay. Bonnie Cappel signed up
against.
Cappel: Madam Mayor, Council, my name is Bonnie Cappel.
De Weerd: I'm sorry.
Cappel: We live on -- right near the corner of Amity and Locust Grove. We are 20
acres befinreen that and that subdivision and it's my understanding that you are not
required to notify anyone when you change things unless it's within 300 feet. However,
when D.J. McKay was going to propose a gravel pit on that bridge several years ago,
whenever that was, they did notify everyone all around and because of the testimony
and public hearings they did not do that. But we never got any notification on this at all
and I'm disappointed in that, because I feel like that neighborhood and the area has a
right to talk and to have some input on this. But that's neither here nor there. I am very
much against this subdivision, because of the density and because, like Mary Ann said,
we saw a subdivision platted out, Councilman Rountree, and everything was trails,
ponds, very low density and we were a11 for it. And then -- and, then, we heard it was
sold and approved and now all of a sudden we heard Hubble Homes had bought it.
And now, again, there is another thing with more density and I know I'm new to the
process, but I guess my request would be couldn't the people in the neighborhood have
a notification of this, so we would know what was going on? And my concern also is
right below me, north of Amity, all of our neighbors there sold that property and they did
not sell that to Hubble Homes and I'm not against them per se, it's just the methodology
that they use. That was proposed and we talked it all over and the neighbors and we
thought, well, you know, that's fine and, then, all of a sudden here is a Hubble Homes
sign and they are putting up their homes and it just seems to me a bit underhanded and
we have been a little flim flammed out there because of the modus operandi that they
are using to come in there and it's probably neither here nor there with you, but I just
wanted to tell you how I feel about it. The other thing is how do we protect in the
CC&Rs that this won't turn into a rental community? And, you know, you have a
subdivision that you have all kinds of problems just because of the demographics of the
area and I'm concerned that we protect that, so that it doesn't just go to heck, quite
frankly. Anyway, the only other thing I had is that I did have these two letters and I
notice that you mentioned the one from Lonnie Anderson, who lives just right through
the fence from us. And another one from Karen and Lee Adams and they both have
those. Right? I just wanted them to be sure to be on the public record. Thank you for
listening to me and I appreciate your time.
Meridian City Council
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De Weerd: Well, I would like to let you know that your testimony does make a
difference and the law requires the 300 foot requirement. We also ask that big signs be
put out there, so those that are not publicly noticed in the mail do have an opportunity to
see it. We have tried to make those requirements more visible and it's hard to go above
and beyond that, but I don't think anyone purposefully is trying to exclude anyone from
that noticing.
Cappel: I understand that, but you're doing the best you can. I guess the thing that
bothers me is that they are sold and approved to one developer and, then, all of a
sudden it seems a bit underhanded to me. That's all. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. I guess I would say that it concerns us, too, and I'll leave it at
that. Okay. Barbara Fulcher signed up against.
Fulcher: Ma'am de Weerd, Council, my name is Barbara Fulcher --
De Weerd: Pull that down a little bit.
Fulcher: Thank you. Is that better'?
De Weerd: That's excellent. Thank you.
Fulcher: I live at 5215 South Eagle Road. Our property borders the property that is
being developed. I want to pass out the testimony that I prepared.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Fulcher: And, then, I listened to these other people and I want to say I mean the same
thing happened to us exactly. And so I'd like to say he sat at my table and drank my
coffee and ate my cookies and promised me that we were -- we bought this under
county rules and, Mrs. Fulcher, you can't change a county rule. There will not be any
development there. And if there is we are going to build you a Banbury. Hey, this
sounded pretty good to us. So, anyway, just as -- just to preface what I have written. I
realized this is a rerun of all the past hearings. Our concerns are still the same. I must
challenge the Hubble Homes, also known as Provident Development Group's, claim that
they desire to be good neighbors. They keep coming back with the same basic plan,
changing nothing or taking into account the continuous protests to their development. I
assume they are planning on wearing the existing neighborhood down until there is no
longer a resistance. Number one, the first concern is traffic. We are now in the soccer
season and I am assuming there are maybe an additional 200 cars on Eagle Road that
are not ordinarily there, but it is impossible to get out of our driveway. What will an
additional 1,600 cars added to the traffic pattern do from this proposed development?
Number two. The second concern is the density. Now, there is no provision for storage
for RV's, boat parking, and so forth. They would have to be parked on the streets, they
would have to be on the streets -- they would have to be on the streets making clutter
Meridian City Council
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an accepted fact. There are no provisions for family life. Oh, yes. They have added
pocket parks and regardless of the parks department recommendations, I respectFully
disagree with what the actual use of these parks are. They are also an ideal provision
for drug traffic or for a place for perverts to hang out. And if you read the papers you
know that we have both. These parks are secluded without any open space, all hidden
behind foliage. The third concern is the esthetic effect on our neighborhood. We have
beautiful homes gracing the bluff overlooking the area in question. On the flats we have
spacious ranch style homes on acreages, which border the Hubble property. This is not
a compatible combination with the high density low income homes. Am I through?
De Weerd: You can get 30 additional seconds.
Fulcher: So, what is acceptable to us? Well, this development should not even be
considered until Eagle Road is widened to accommodate the added traffic. If the
Hubble development causes us, the Fulchers, unavailability to access Eagle Road, they
should build a bridge and I know that they mentioned something, but I don't know
whether that included that bridge or not -- across Ten Mile Creek, so that we have
access to their stop light. Otherwise, we will never go anyplace. There should be some
storage facility available for those who need it to eliminate the junky appearance.
These lots should be large enough to accommodate family supervised back lawns. This
cannot be done with eight houses to the acre. This development should meet with the
quality homes that were already in this area. Quality living conditions should
predominate over the bottom line profit for the developer. Thank you for listening to me.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Borton: Mrs. Fulcher, I didn't catch at the very start and I have to ask who was it that
sat down with you in your house and --
Fulcher: It was Dan Wood. We sold to the same people that -- it was the -- what was it
called?
Rountree: He 's sitting right behind you.
Fulcher: But it was called Triple D Livestock Development I think. And we were -- we
were given the same song and dance, I can see that after speaking to Mary Ann,
because none of us would have voluntarily have sold into this. And, you know,
sometime I'd like for Mr. Hubble to know what he got it for, so he knows exactly what he
got taken for.
Rountree: Thank you.
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April 15, 2008
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Fulcher: Is there any --
De Weerd: No. Thank you. Tim Foster signed up against.
Foster: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, my name is Tim Foster. I own the
property up in Black Rock Subdivision at 5805 Graphite Way. Sorry. I'm probably not
going to be too personable here, because I have got a lot to say real quick.
Holman: Oh.
De Weerd: Oh, your time is up. You have 30 seconds.
Bird: You're in trouble.
Foster: Okay. I have some concerns that need to be looked at before you guys make a
decision on this subdivision. I have got about six of them I'd like to go through. The first
one is the coving. Since the last meeting they say that the coving issue has been
resolved. It really hasn't. As it stands, the coving area is owners' property; it will be up
to the management company to enforce the rules. We all know everywhere that
management companies around this valley cannot enforce issues like this or even stop
people from parking trailers out on the side of the road for so long. How is their
management company going to change what no one else can? By the time
management companies go after things like this by starting liens and all that type of
process, the homeowners will have already cut their grass and make it look a lot better.
Plus I want it noted -- I want you guys to go back to their coving areas, they finally
showed a depiction of the driveways and it shows two houses sharing one driveway in
this coving unit, which I feel would be very unattractive. Next is the alley lots. This was
brought up by Planning and Zoning Commissioner Joe Marshall that alley-loaded lots,
the Village area, might have some problems with the lot lines. The interior houses on
one side will be five feet from their lot line. The next house will have an easement to be
able to use that five feet for their front lawn. That way their front lawns will be
approximately 25 feet at the longest side and approximately ten feet near their porch --
front porch area. There is two issues that come up with this. One, that's a five foot
easement, which is technically not the user's property, so who is going to maintain that?
Is the user or is the homeowner going to take care of that? Also whose sprinkler
system will water that area? Again, is it a homeowner or is it is user. We got to figure
out what's going to happen in that area. The second issue -- and this is a larger one,
what happens at the end lots of these ally loaded subdivision -- areas? Mr. Armstrong
will tell you that they will be able to flip flop houses, that there won't be any issues with
lot lines. But we need to see some pictures to prove this. If you stack their housing
either way, at some point there is either going to be five feet total between finro houses
or one of the houses will be five feet right up against the next road. When we get into
phasing, with our current phasing and the current housing trends, the lots that Planning
and Zoning and you guys have fought so hard to change are going to be several years
out. As it stands, the park won't be installed until phase three, unless the City of
Meridian comes up with 400,000 dollars to get this thing going. You know, a project like
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April 15, 2008
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this with the way the current market is, is going to turn into a 15 to 20 year project.
What happens when they want to revise these phases in ten years? We don't know
what's going to happen. What can we do? And that doesn't even bring in the time line
for arterial roads or streetlights and things like that. Really?
De Weerd: If --
Foster: Okay. I will finish with that and I got a lot more, so my wife signed up next.
De Weerd: Okay.
Foster Yes. So, if there is any questions on what I have said so far I would be more
than happy to answer them.
De Weerd: Thank you. You want to get to the end of the paragraph at least.
Foster: That happened to be the end of that paragraph. Yes.
De Weerd: It was great timing, then.
Foster: Yeah. Well, no, I got more.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions?
Rountree: I have none.
Bird: I have none.
Foster: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Jenny Foster, either that, Jenny, or you can give your husband
your time.
J.Foster: Can 1 give him my time?
De Weerd: You bet.
J.Foster: Okay. I am giving him my time.
De Weerd: There you go.
J.Foster: Thank you.
De Weerd: Anything for unity in a marriage. There you go.
Foster: Do you need her information, ma'am?
Meridian City Council
April 15, 2008
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De Weerd: No. I trust that you probabiy have the same address.
Foster: Yeah. Okay. So, the fourth issue I have is on the City of Meridian future land
use land act. I know that legally Castle Rock Subdivision is grandfathered into the old
land use map and if you take their totals with the total amount of land, yes, they do meet
into the guidelines, but you guys changed that for a reason and that area has been
changed and if you guys changed it, we should stick with what you want. Fifth is the
donations, 300,000 dollars for Eagle and Victory Road, which, mind you, is just for that
road, not anything else. So, if they don't want to -- ACHD doesn't want to do that, they
were not going to give that money. Plus, the 1.4 million dollar park, which is going to
cost you guys 400,000 dollars. Stop lights -- you know, donations are great, but they
shouldn't be used to sway one's idea's for a community. And if they are allowed to
donate like this, the general public should be given the same right, if all it does is take
money to change this, give us the chance to donate, give us the chance to, you know,
created a fundraiser to change this. Because if that's what it does, you know, we should
be able to decline this -- this project and unless the community will come up with it. And
six is the morality. The last one. This is the most important one. Commissioner
O'Brien from the Planning and Zoning Commission brought up this and i feel it's the
best way for all of us. You know, is this subdivision really the moral thing to do to
approve it. We all agree that Hubble is trying to make an attempt to meet your
guidelines and I would say, you know, they probably have with some gray areas. But
just because they meet these guidelines and they are willing to donate money, is it
really the moral thing? I mean this development is at the edge of a very rural area.
There isn't any real transition befinreen them and the 20 acres that butt up against them
on all sorts of different sides, you know, they meet your guidelines, but it's at the very
edge. You know, they -- you have a density guideline that's three houses per acre and
they are at 2.98 and that's using the parks and walkways and all this other stuff. You
know, we all agree that a subdivision will be here sometime and it will -- more than likely
will be, you know, Mr. Hubble 's subdivision, but is this area ready for a large one like
that? I know I'm not. And I know that everyone that lives around there isn't ready for it
either. And, remember, you guys have already denied their plans that have had fewer
homes in this area. So, you know, like all Planning and Zoning Commissioners said at
the last meeting, they said is it right -- is it the right time for this? And I would ask you
guys, is it really the right time for this large of a project. And that's all I have.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: I have none.
Foster: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. And thank you, Jenny. Carol Jarvis signed up against.
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Jarvis: I'm Carol Jarvis. I live at 1875 Susanne Drive. My property abuts the west side
of the subdivision there. Right where they will have a little path for the people in the
community to walk around and as I think about this, who is going to buy these homes
will be people with one, two, or three kids and possibly there could be as many as -- we
could have 2,500 to 3,500 people in that area, in that small area, which is as many
people -- more people than were in Meridian when we came here. But people move to
the country they think the kids should be able to, you know, have a little freedom space
area. So, I see a lot of problems and as one of the other gentlemen mentioned before,
they were going to be going through his fence and where his cattle are, but we don't
have any cattle in there full time, but at times there is and right now there is no mention
of putting a big fence on our side of the property. They, you know, offered to do it on
the south side, but nothing came up on -- I thought that on the west side there. Also, he
was talking about not other affordable housing being built and I have a map that shows
that there are --
Nary: You need to be on the mike.
De Weerd: Mrs. Jarvis, if you can, please, talk in the mike.
Jarvis: Okay. There are R-2 or R-8 properties all along the middle of the mile befinreen
Amity and Victory where there are going to be a number of lots in that size and look like
quite small -- small lots also. I don't have enough detail on the map I have to really tell
exactly. Most of them I think will end up being out on Eagle Road also. But most of
those are either in construction or haven't been built yet. The question I had was when
this area is not -- was not even in the area of impact for Meridian, why would they have
an R-8 even there? It wasn't even in the impact area of the city. I mean that's a
question I'm asking. I would like to know.
De Weerd: Well, we will ask him all the questions at --
Jarvis: Okay. That's all I think I have tonight.
De Weerd: Thank you so much, Mrs. Jarvis. Don Cantrell signed up against. Cantrell.
Sorry. I thought it was an R. Thank you.
Cantrell: Madam Mayor, City Council Members, my name is Don Cantrell and I live at
3000 East Lake Hazel. I got the 35 acres on the south side of the property there. I will
ditto everybody, but I'll just try to cut it short. Obviously, not only the concerns with the
traffic, but with over 6,000 homes being listed in Treasure Valley there is, what,
approximately 600 just in Meridian alone that are still available. On the 40 acres that I
have got back in '96 when we were able to get ten acres subdivided on the Lake Hazel
side on the far end of it, they would only allow five lots on the ten acres. Either one acre
to 2.7 acres and I was under the impression that we had a moratorium on the other
acres for 15 years. And I-- which means that I still got another two, three years before
we could even consider doing anything, other than the cattle and the agriculture which I
don't plan on doing anything for a period of time. But with that being said, we are -- we
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April 15, 2008
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have got four to six houses to an acre plus, because, obviously, the 3.8 acres
constitutes with the roads and the parks, I believe the smallest house is going to be 800
square feet. So, it sounds like to me you can get about eight lots to an acre. So,
anyway, there is just that concern. And with that being said, I'll leave it to the next.
Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Shannon Cobert signed up against.
Cobert: Good evening, Madam Mayor and Members of the Council. I apologize, I had
a letter I was going to get into you guys before tonight, but time escaped me, so I'm
going to read it.
De Weerd: If you can state your name and address.
Cobert: Oh. I'm sorry. Shannon Cobert. 2371 East Sinai, which is located in the Black
Rock Subdivision.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Cobert: I currently live in the Black Rock Subdivision, recently established off of Eagle
and Amity intersection. My husband and I purchased our property in April of 2007 and
we have been attending city hearings ever since in regards to Providence Development.
Please know that we are not opposed to a subdivision, as we know it will eventually
happen. However, we are opposed to the amount of homes and the fact that Hubble
Homes does not have a reputation as a quality builder, keeping maintenance properties
for long term homeownership. We have always known that the city would eventually
reach our country setting home, but with Hubble Homes Subdivisions being already
having two subdivisions less than five miles away, it brings thoughts to an over pouring
amount of dwellings, crowding of roads, new schools, tax issues, for property
maintenance, and the overuse of land that would keep our country -- that would not
keep our country living possible. It also brings a concern of a decrease in property
value for all surrounding homes and property owners. I'm concerned that if this is
approved it would cause a decline in the beautification to Meridian versus the growth of
Meridian. The City of Meridian has looked long and hard to keep the community feeling
which keeps Boise, the big city, and Nampa, the living style that they were hoping to
avoid. It would be sad to see this allowed and as we would probably -- it would truly not
show that Meridian is a community where we live beside our neighbors, not on top of
each other. I feel, as I believe many do, that it comes down to the fact that there are
just too many homes for the amount of land and that does not match the outlying
properties established. If this were to be approved, I only ask that it stay within the
types of residential living in the area that it was originally intended for. When we
purchased the property we did not know that Providence Group was linked to Hubble
Homes, nor that they had intentions of converting the turf fields into a high density
jungle of mixed homes. Although Hubble feels a small amount of the area proposed for
a public park should suffice us and the surrounding community, it is really obvious in the
other Hubble subs and even the Black Rock Subdivision that wasn't given a family park,
Meridian City Council
April 15, 2008
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that they were -- they are not the community, but in so -- sorry. They are not -- sorry.
That they were not about community, but for self advancement, which they market their
many homes and properties available now for low income families, first time home
buyers, and even grants for the city, et cetera, to help them achieve those homes. I
believe at some point in our lives we have all bought our first home, had little to no
funds in our bank account, yet we have all moved up the ladder in life. You put yourself
in our shoes of the current homes and properties and owners already in these
established areas and our future community growth. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Justin Griffith signed up for.
Griffith: I'm Justin Griffith. 2988 South Slay Creek Meridian, Idaho. And I have got
some property -- 26 acres on Lake Hazel Road just about a quarter mile from this
project and been to all the hearings over the last number of months and years looking at
the south Meridian Comprehensive Plan changes and have tried to be a participate in
those. As I have looked at this I think that this project plays an integral part of the South
Eagle Road corridor with annexation and bringing city services to that area. Presently
we have recently got a subdivision, Ridge Line Subdivision, which you guys approved
city water to off of Eagle Road recently. We want to be annexed into the City of
Meridian as soon as we can get sewer services to that area. This is going to bring city
-- sewer services very close or down that Eagle corridor, which will allow future
developments in that south comprehensive Eagle Road area. And so I look forward to
the annexation to Meridian in the near future. I look forward to that line of annexation to
occur. I think it's -- the density is what you guys are looking for and so that's what you
guys are requesting and so it's not higher density that you want. I don't think that's an
issue. I think Hubble is also going above and beyond by putting extra -- I did not even
realize they are putting in the stop lights under amenities which will, again, as I develop
my property, further just makes it that much better for me in the future. And so I think
it's good that they are doing that and being proactive getting the sewer down in that
area, so we can develop that area further as the services are brought to us.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Griffith: You bet.
De Weerd: Angela Comish. And, I'm sorry, if I ruin any of your names, I apologize after
the fact.
Comish: Angela Comish, 600 East Susanne Street, Boise, Idaho. And I own property
at 6740 South Eagle Road, which is right near where Justin's property is and I would
echo his sentiments. I'm looking forward to sewer being down in our area. I'm not only
a property owner in the area, but I also am a licensed civil engineer and I design
subdivisions and, personally, I think this is a very well designed subdivision. It offers a
variety of housing types, pathways and trails, numerous parks. It's supportive of a
future transit system, which I think is really valuable. It's consistent with the south
Meridian comprehensive plan, which you guys have been working on for the last couple
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April 15, 2008
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of years. I have been a party, too, I have been to the meetings, so I think it's been well
done and I think they are doing it right and I support their project.
De Weerd: Thank you. That is the names that have signed up to indicate their support
or opposition. Is there anyone eise who would like to provide testimony? Mr. Wood.
Wood: Yes. Madam Mayor, Council Members, my name is Dan Wood. I live at 2025
East Chateau, Meridian.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Wood: I will go through what I want to say, because I'm sure you're going to have
questions for me when I'm done. I hope anyway. I'm in support of the project and my
thoughts are -- is your current Comp Plan supports this project and we do desperately
need affordable housing at this time. What is this project going to bring to the
community of Meridian -- I mean the developer is providing a city park, numerous
pathways, what -- street lights, lots of open space, multiple levels of property ownership.
I mean he's providing quite a bit it seems like. So, I think the City of Meridian really
needs affordable housing at this time. So, I'm in support of that. I have got some
history here, if you want me to go through some of the things.
De Weerd: You do have history.
Rountree: You certainly do.
Bird: We'd like to hear it.
Wood: Okay. So, Council Members, some of you were here when I was before you I'd
say roughly in the spring of 2005. A little history here. Mrs. Fulcher, I did sit down and
talk with her. She's correct in some things, but -- okay. When we purchased the ground
from the Fulchers, which was in May -- no. Excuse me. March of 2003, it was under a
county zone. All that was allowed was a cluster development, which is why you see
Black Rock, which is where the 44 lots -- that's all that was allowed to be approved. In
August of 2004, a little ahead, we also purchased McKay's property. With those finro
pieces it allowed up to do Black Rock. Came before the City Council starting in 2005 to
see if there was a way we could work something out with sewer. Ultimately, you know,
we came before you guys with the understanding that we were going to do two and a
half to three houses to the acre, because that's what the city wanted to see and there
wouldn't be any annexation to our property until the city grew that way -- grew that far,
as well as that the -- there was approval for the GARVEE bill for the off ramp. So, at
that point, you know, this is why we went back to the Fulchers and said, hey, there is
not going to be a major development out here for probably eight years. Eight to ten
years. We all know what the market has done in the last few years. This right now --
here we are at 2008, yes, we are off, we are off two or three years. ~ But, ultimately,
current Comp Plan has changed from what we met with different levels here, we are
under the understanding that they would rather see two and a half to three, but,
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April 15, 2008
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ultimately, the current Comp Plan allows for higher density than what we were led to
believe. But at the same token it was disclosed to the current owners what the city
wanted to see and it was disclosed to them prior to them purchasing the property. So,
they were aware of it, but they also worked with you guys to see if the Comprehensive
Plan would be adjusted to allow higher density. So, ultimately -- there is my three
minutes. But I guess in closing, you know, I'm a little puzzled, I was under the
impression part of the agreement I worked out with the city to provide sewer to Black
Rock with the -- that the deeds on the lots in Black Rock would have to be disclosed
that there -- that there was going to be, you know, future growth and that they would be
annexed. I can't say that for sure, but that's what our agreement was. We started
construction on Black Rock in the fall of 2005, late fall, and January 5th of 2006 is when
Hubble Homes proposed their offer and purchased the property. So, there was a three
year span of time -- from the time we bought it from the Fulchers to the time Hubble
Homes purchased it and closed. My time is up.
De Weerd: Council, questions for Mr. Wood?
Bird: He's answered mine.
De Weerd: Well, then, I will --
Wood: Okay.
De Weerd: Because I was on Council when you came in front of us and you told us this
would be a development we would be proud of. It would be unique to the area. It
would be up scale. You know, I remember this discussion, so I can -- I understand what
the two sellers you were saying.
Wood: Sure.
De Weerd: And I can say that I'm very disappointed. I can say just like the property
owners, we were sold a vision for that area and even though I think that is -- is a nice
layout, that is not the vision that I was sold --
Wood: Okay.
De Weerd: -- when we agreed to put water out there and the eventual extension of
service.
Wood: Sure. Madam Mayor, I--
De Weerd: So, I can understand exactly what the sellers of that property are saying.
Wood: So, Madam Mayor, I don't disagree with you. I agree with what you're saying.
That's exactly what I got up here and told you. But I'm also confused by the fact that
your current Comp Plan that you guys adopted allows for them to do this. So,
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ultimately, it kind of puts us in a situation where we disclosed to them what we had told
you, two and a half to three houses to the acre. They did their due diligence to follow up
through -- to follow through with that. Ultimately, they chose to purchase that, realizing
that it was public record what we had told you and this Council. They still chose to
purchase it. But, then, the confusing portion is when you turn around and the current
Comp Plan allows them to present what they are presenting tonight. And, by the way, it
is creating a lot of benefits to the City of Meridian. So, that's my side of the story.
De Weerd: Anything else, Council?
Rountree: I have nothing.
Bird: I have nothing.
De Weerd: Okay. Further testimony? Oh, yes. Christie.
Little: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. I have a name change
tonight. For the record, Christie Little, representing the Ada County Highway District,
3775 Adams Street in Garden City.
De Weerd: What's your last name?
Little: Little.
Zaremba: That's new.
Little: It's old.
De Weerd: Okay.
Little: I just wanted to read into the record tonight a letter in response to Mr.
Armstrong's proposal to donate 300,000 dollars to the signal at Eagle and Victory. So,
this letter was sent in response to their offer. It's dated March 5th and it's to Mr.
Armstrong from Gary Inselman, manager of right of way and development services.
Dear Mr. Armstrong: ACHD shares the concerns of Hubble Homes over the timing of
the improvements to the intersection of Eagle Road and Victory Road. While ACHD
cannot insure the timing of a project beyond the current budget year, the generous
donation from Hubble Homes of 300,000 dollars towards this important capital
improvement project will go a long way in providing ACHD incentive to begin the
construction of this project in 2010 as currently planned. ACHD appreciates the efforts
of Hubble Homes to address the traffic impacts of the proposed Castle Rock
Subdivision and the offer to contribute funds toward the Eagle Road - Victory Road
intersection. So, I just wanted to clarify. Mr. Armstrong's slide said that the 300,000
dollars would be contributed if the signal was constructed in 2010 and we can't
guarantee that the signal will be constructed in 2010. That's just where it is planned.
Meridian Ciry Counci~
April 15, 2008
Page 62 of 81
De Weerd: It has been a moving target.
Little: I just wanted to clarify.
De Weerd: Much to our chagrin I might add. Any questions from Council?
Bird: If they can find -- with 300,000 sitting on the table, I hope they can find the rest of
it. You don't get that thrown at you all the time.
Zaremba: Never mind. I'll ask the applicant.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further testimony?
Ross: Madam Mayor, Council. My name is Barbara Ross. I live at 21 Waverly Drive in
Horseshoe Bend, Idaho. I live in Horseshoe Bend, IdahQ, because I lived in Meridian
and when it took me 45 minutes to get downtown from Linder Road and I counted 17
fast food restaurants, Gene and I moved out of -- out of Ada County, which is a story in
its own. I-- you know, I grew up across the street from this subdivision, across Eagle
Road. I'm currently a trustee for the property across the road. My sisters and I have sat
silently at these meetings. I grew up across the road -- across the road, grew up with
one generation of Fulchers, watched the second generation grow up, and grew up with
the McKay kids. When the McKay's and the Fulchers made the agreement with Dan
Woods and whoever it was you talked to, that group, they came and they talked to my
mom and they talked -- and, then, mom talked to us and what they were talking about
was fine with us. We went to the county meetings. What's being proposed now is not
okay with us. It's too much too fast. Four hundred units and they are going to put in a
stop light, that's going to be 800 more cars on the road. You can drive -- watch any bus
pull up to any bus stop -- people aren't going to ride the bus, they are all one or three or
nine people in a bus. I don't buy what they are saying. So, I thank you for your time.
De Weerd: Okay. Any additional testimony? Yes, sir.
Fabricius: My name is Mark Fabricius. I live at 1800 Susanne Drive, Meridian.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Fabricius: I testified at the last Planning and Zoning Commission. I-- the main reason
I'm up here right now -- I wrote a rather lengthy letter that I hope provides some food for
thought for you people and my letter wasn't mentioned. So, I hope that you have
received it.
De Weerd: It was mentioned in the introduction.
Fabricius: The Planning and Zoning letter was mentioned, but not -- not the letter to you
-- the City Council.
Meridian City Council
April 15, 2008
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De Weerd: It has been received, sir.
Fabricius: All right. All right. Thank you very much.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Anything further'? I will ask at this time for the -- would
Council like to hear further from Mrs. Miller?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Borton: She's here from Texas. It's okay to give her --
De Weerd: It's the distance you travel.
Miller: Thank you, Madam Mayor and Council.
De Weerd: Thank you. If you will state your name again for the record.
Miller: Mary Ann Miller from Houston, Texas. or Cyprus, Texas, to be correct. To go
back to the original, when I-- when City Councilman Rountree asked me if we had
really received anything in -- in concrete about what the acreage would amount to and
what the subdivision would be like, we actually did receive and still have the original
plats -- besides the original comments that I made before, we actually received the -- a
preliminary plat of what the entire thing was going to be and that we received from --
from them and I think that that should be noted from the record and -- and I think that
was what was proposed to you that you mentioned before and, as you said before, what
we see up there is not what was proposed and that is why it is so disheartening to all of
us. Thank you for your time.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. I will ask the applicant to come with wrap-up remarks.
Armstrong: Madam Mayor, Members of the City Council, I'll go through these in the
order --
De Weerd: If you will state your name again.
Armstrong: Oh, I'm sorry. Jerry Armstrong. 701 Allen Street, Meridian, Idaho.
De Weerd: Thanks.
Armstrong: First of all, regarding Senator Fulcher's letter, the specific consent means
that we do have an annexation path to this property, so we can be annexed. The law
change really added validity to what we are proposing here before you this evening.
The other thing I wanted to add -- you will notice that Cheri Ewing, even though she
provided comment, she chose not to testify tonight, because I had explained to her in
Meridian City Council
April 15, 2008
Page 64 of 81
the hallway that we were adding the -- the light at Amity and Eagle, as well as the one at
Amity and Victory that we were contributing money towards that, so she was satisfied,
that took care of her issues. I will talk about Mr. Brad Hofhines. He talked about rentals
and what we do -- when we do a contract and sell a home, that what we have in our
contract is that it will be their primary residence for one family and it will also be a
minimum of one year. The other issue was -- he talked about Hubble Homes. Just note
that the reason we provided design guidelines for the upgrade architecture was to
demonstrate to you that we are not building the same product that we had that he
referred to out at Charter Point. We are building a new upgraded series. We just got
approved -- we redid our preliminary plat at Charter Point where we are doing the new
upgraded architecture. We will start building it in June of this year.
Borton: Madam Mayor? Can I interrupt real quick; because you just made comment on
it. I have one question on -- on what you had said with regards to the rental issue. How
would that work -- if I buy a property and there is that restriction in the contract and I
have closed and I go rent it? So, you're not -- I mean Hubble is not going to sue me.
Who is going prevent me from doing that? I don't understand.
Armstrong: Well, it's part of the original contract that they have to demonstrate that -- in
other words, it wouldn't go to a rental agency, if they wanted to come in and purchase
one of our homes. They have to actually occupy the residence.
De Weerd: But if it's a second buyer how do you --
Armstrong: You don't. The second buyer you don't.
De Weerd: I think that -- that was your question.
Borton: Well --
Armstrong: Plus, you know, the other issue is on renters -- I mean I don't consider them
any different than any of us.
Borton: And I-- Madam Mayor. And I'm not saying one way or the other. I don't
necessarily disagree. I was just trying to figure out -- I'm not sure mechanically if I,
individual homeowner, buy the house and I individually go rent it out, that there really
isn't any way to prevent me from doing it.
Armstrong: Well, one of the problems that we had in this market was we had a rash of
people who were coming in and buying four and five houses. Well, they can't buy four
or five houses from us. They can buy one. But they can't buy a series of them. And
that's what happened to the market. What happened is investors from California were
coming in here and because of the inexpensive housing they were buying five and six of
them. So, we know who the owners are and who's buying these.
Borton: Okay.
Meridian City Council
April 15, 2008
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Armstrong: Mary Ann Miller -- you know, the history on this -- I think Dan Woods kind of
explained how that was. She questioned Hubble's financing issues. I would just like to
remind her that even though we are in a tough time in the housing market and in spite of
what you read in the Idaho Statesman, this whole last fall we went through a tough time
in -- in August through December we were selling at the rate of 40 houses a month.
Our sales rate, since we have done the improved architecture on our homes and a lot of
it in Meridian, we have gone up to 60 houses a month. So, since January we are selling
60 houses a month. That's pretty brisk. We are anticipating ten to 14 houses a month
at this particular site. There is also -- she mentioned the idea of larger lots. I can te11
her that what is selling are smaller lots. Out at Charter Point we ran out of smaller lots
and the reason we went back and re-platted something that we already had the
entitlement to was the fact that market is shifting towards a smaller lot and what the --
what the market is asking for -- not only smaller lots, but what they want is more open
space and more recreational and trail-ways through the housing developments, rather
than them taking care of all that lawn themselves. Bonnie Cappel inquired about the
notification of 300 feet. I just wanted to c{arify that Ada County, where the gravef pit is,
has different requirements. Theirs is a thousand feet notification and that's by Ada
County ordinance. She also talked about renters and I just want to remind her that
renters are still people, they are important people, they are important citizens. About 33
percent of the people who live in Ada County are renters. Barbara Fulcher talked about
soccer and the impact on Eagle Road. I just want to remind her soccer is important to
our youth in the community. They should have the opportunity to play soccer. Density.
She talked about CC&Rs for RVs parked in driveways. Our CC&Rs do not allow for any
RVs or pickups or cars to be parked in the driveway. Drug trafficking. I just don't think -
- that's a non-issue. Eagle should be widened. I just want to remind her that impact
fees other than what we are providing on the traffic lights, we are providing an additional
two million dollars through impact fees, those fees that are necessary to the health and
well being of ACHD are determined by that agency and whatever that number is that's
what we will provide through this development to take care of those issues. Tim Foster
brought up coving ownership and about the management. The other issue he didn't talk
about was that we would do -- commit to weekly inspections and just a reminder that
those coves are for a purpose, they add additional greening within the development and
add larger front yards to all those lots, which is a good thing. It makes the appearance
of the community a lot better. He also talked about the interior lot lines and what he's
talking about is the use and benefit easement and that's on the alley-loaded product and
what -- we had feedback from our project at Charter Point that we didn't have enough
side yard, so we have widened those lots out at Charter Point. They were 35 feet wide.
We have widened them to 40 feet, plus the five foot easement, which gives us an
additional ten feet in side yard. So, we have anywhere from 16 to 20 feet of side yard
on those lots. He also talked about that the phases would probably take 20 years to
build out. At our project sales rate, even in the -- given the current market, this project
would probably bui{d out in a minimum of ten years. The Comprehensive Plan has
been changed by this Council and we meet it. He talked about allowing a donation. I
guess that's the nice thing about the private enterprises, we have the opportunity, if we
would like to donate to the community, and I think we are good stewards to the
Meridian City Council
April 15, 2008
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community. Cheryl Jarvis talked about the kids. We are planning on having families
move into this community. She mentioned a fence on the west side. If she would like,
we would be happy to put in a fence on the west side, if that is desirous of this Council,
you can make that as a condition of approval. She talked about Tuscany providing
affordable housing and I don't think anything over 260,000 is affordable housing by my
definition. The -- Don Cantrell -- let's see. Had the 35 acres on the south. He talked
about the smallest house being 800 square feet. I just wanted to correct that. Our
smallest home is -- starts at 950 square feet. That's a good thing. Shannon Colbert,
who lives in Black Rock, is opposed to Hubble. I just want to remind those property
owners at Black Rock that we did disclose to them that we were going to be building
and proposing this subdivision. Also, I'll remind them that we have put design
guidelines that are part of our development agreement and the other fact I want to
remind those people that live in Black Rock is that we still own 22 lots up there, so we
are concerned what the community looks like and, hopefully, can sell those lots. Justin
Griffith talked about -- was supportive by bringing sewer and water and looking forward
to the annexation and, then, we had Angela who talked about, again, the well designed
project and offering future transit connection. And, then, Dan Wood talked about the
need for affordable housing and how times have changed since 2003 and he went
through that whole history. I was pleased that he did that. And Christie certainly
clarified what our agreement is with Ada County Highway District, which we agree with
that letter. And Barbara Ross talked about growing up across the street. Times do
change. And I think that was all the comments that I had, unless this Commission has
any other questions of ine.
De Weerd: Council, do you have questions?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor'?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: A clarification again on the 300 dollars -- 300,000 dollar donation to the
signal at Eagle and -- which one is that? Victory?
De Weerd: Yeah.
Zaremba: Is that offer withdrawn if it's not built in 2010?
Armstrong: No. The offer -- let's see. Let me get the letter. Again, what it states is the
300,000 is towards this important capital improvement project will go a long way in
providing ACHD the incentive to begin the construction of this project in 2010, as
currently planned. They already have the construction documents drawn for that
improvement to that intersection, as well as the traffic light. What we were trying to do
was push it up in the planning, because it wasn't planned within the five year horizon.
So, what we were trying to do was encourage them and we see the urgency of getting
that light in earlier than later, because it's always been in their -- I think it's in their ten
year work plan. But certainly when private contributions come in and they are short
Meridian City Council
April 15, 2008
Page 67 of 81
money, they are certainly going to look at that as a positive thing and it pushes those
projects up. We have done that on other development projects to get projects done
ahead of time is by the developer donating money. They have -- a bird in the hand is
worth two in the bush. So, that's an honest contribution, if we are entitled.
Zaremba: I understand the intent. I guess my question is there are no strings attached
that say this is a 300,000 dollar contribution regardless of when they build this signal; is
that correct?
Armstrong: The only string attached is whether or not you approve it, get us entitled.
If we don't get the land entitled, then, the 300,000 goes away. That was -- that was our
letter to them.
Zaremba: Okay.
Armstrong: But assuming it gets entitled, yeah, we give them the 300,000.
Zaremba: I think that answers my question.
Armstrong: The whole goal was to get it moved up to 2010, rather than in the later date.
That is what this letter says. It doesn't go away. The money -- the commitment is there.
The 300,000 dollars is a commitment.
Zaremba: Thank you. That's the piece I was looking for.
Bird: Madam Mayor'?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Jerry, what kind of finish are you going to use on your -- I know you're going to
use a variety of different sidings and stuff. What type do you plan on using in the
subdivision?
Armstrong: Councilman Bird, we committed to a minimum of three materials for the
front facade of every housing unit within the development and those were read by staff,
but includes rock, brick, horizontal siding, vertical siding, scallops, shingles -- there is a
variety of building materials, different sidings, different colors.
Bird: Is vinyl siding included in that?
Armstrong: Yes.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Meridian City Council
April 15, 2008
Page 68 of 81
Zaremba: Did we ever clarify whether lawns and sprinkler systems would be in before
the house was sold?
Armstrong: Absolutely. We made that commitment.
Zaremba: Okay.
Armstrong: That is part of the development agreement.
Zaremba: I remember the discussion, I didn't remember the outcome.
Armstrong: Yes. Yes. Sprinklers and front lawns.
De Weerd: And what is the percent of the accent? The accent -- the architectural
accent?
Armstrong: I don't think there was a percentage.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, while Mr. Armstrong is getting that, I
thought I could clarify at least my earlier statement and with Mrs. Canning's help as I
read through the legislation further -- and it doesn't change what Mr. Armstrong said and
I agree with him. Senator Fulcher's statement regarding clearing up a discrepancy in
the code, that is an issue that Senator Fulcher had raised at previous testimony was
about the difference when property was adjacent to the city, but within the area of
impact. Now, after Ju1y 1 it needs to -- it can still be outside your area of impact, but it
has to be within your comp plan. So, that's a little -- a little gap that existed previously
that now they have clarified more specifically. You know, I didn't -- I didn't see that until
after Mrs. Canning pointed it out that that was another little nuance they had changed.
So, I wanted to make sure you knew that. It doesn't change what Mr. Armstrong said, it
doesn't change this project, it doesn't change your ability to annex it, but it was just a
little addition that was included and I wanted to be sure you knew that.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Armstrong: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I have the design guidelines in
front of ine and what it says is for wall surface treatment, the front surface area of the
building shall have balustrades, bricks, stone or stucco accent. Other appropriate wall
surface treatments include vertical, horizontal, board and bat and shingles, shake, hard
board, and stucco. A minimum of three material types will be required on all front
elevations and the one issue that the staff is saying that we can't count the balustrades,
in the staff report, as one of the materials.
Meridian City Council
April 15, 2008
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De Weerd: Anna, have you also addressed the back sides on collectors?
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, as I understand the design
guidelines have rear elevations as well. I can scroll down and -- corner elevations.
Front and corner and here is rear. Front and corner. Rear. Front corner, corner, and
rear. So, the design guidelines do address all elevations. Well, not anterior side, but
front, rear, and corner.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any further questions?
Bird: I have none, Mayor.
Rountree: I have none.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor'?
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Zaremba: Two. One is an outstanding issue from staff about relocating a tot lot away
from the lateral and a pond. Is that happening? Or do you know what I'm talking
about? Lot 27, Block 43.
Armstrong: Madam Mayor, Councilman Zaremba, that's a condition of approval that we
have to meet with staff to get that relocated. So, we are planning on complying with that
condition of approval.
Zaremba: Okay. And, then, back to the stub street, which would be an extension of
South Carlisle. I think the way I stated it was to the property line and now that I think of
it, the property line is in the middle of a-- of Ten Mile Creek. Is that correct, center line
of the creek?
Armstrong: That's true.
Zaremba: So, this would be another case where we would be talking about bonding for
half the bridge. Is that part of the agreement?
Armstrong: That's fine with us if that's what you want.
Zaremba: Okay.
Borton: Madam Mayor'?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Meridian City Council
April 15, 2008
Page 70 of 81
Borton: Parks question for you. If I recall the slide, there was a commitment -- a very
generous -- generous one, excuse me, to provide real property and improvements that
combined about 1.4 million dollars, does that --
Armstrong: That's correct.
Borton: Does that sound about right? Would it be your commitment to do so in the
context of the 8 point -- is it 8.8? In the context of the real property donation of the 8.8,
that that property donation be appraised and the difference befinreen the appraised
value and the 1.4 be provided in the improvements. So, should it come in at 800,000
dollars for those -- for that real property, that the additional 600,000 be utilized for the on
site improvements, so there is an accurate reflection of the real price, whatever it may
be. And if it's higher, then, there is fewer improvements, too.
Armstrong: Okay. Councilman Borton, let me try to explain this the best I can. Our
commitment that we have proposed to the parks commission is concept A, which will
provide the 8.8 acres, which our purchase price for that land -- our purchase price is
125,000 an acre. In addition to that, we have proposed providing 8.8 acres worth of turF
and sprinklers, as well as providing the concept and design drawings, as well as the
construction management. Our total contribution is 1.462. Okay. Then, Meridian would
provide the parking, pathways, trees, restrooms, shelter, dah, dah, dah. The second
scenario -- let's go to concept B. The only difference in this is our original commitment
to the 7.19 acres. Then, whatever the land is appraised at the 1.61 that the city would
be purchasing, which is in addition to our original offer -- it doesn't matter if it's 50,000
an acre, that's your contribution. Our contribution still shown on the left-hand side of it,
so it doesn't change that. Our contribution is still close to the 1.4 million dollars.
Borton: Madam Mayor'?
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Borton: And I appreciate your understanding. It sounds like the answer is no, because
what I was describing was a modified version of that that would reflect -- maybe not so
much the purchase price that you have in the property, but the actual value of the
donation, whatever that might be. And that's okay. I was just proposing that --
Armstrong: Councilman Borton, it's your decision on what you want to do. We are
agreeable to both. The reason we proposed concept A is because it's clean, we don't
have to appraise ground. We don't have to exchange it. We don't have to -- you know,
cities usually have to go through disposition of property and those kinds of issues and
auction and lowest bidder and all those kinds of things. We were just trying to save you
the pain of going through -- through and so we tried to come up with a solution that we
were offering the same amount of money and at the end of the day the contribution by
the city is pretty much the same either way, even if the property is not valued at that, it's
what it is and --
Meridian City Council
April 15, 2008
Page 71 of 81
Borton: Okay. Thanks.
De Weerd: Any other questions, Council?
Bird: I have none, Mayor.
De Weerd: I guess my question is -- is it was a couple years ago that the City Council
turned this project down from Hubble. What has changed since then? You know, the
primary concern was the timing, the lack of the sidewalks along the road as you
urbanize that area, that we are putting kids out on that -- those roads. You mentioned in
your presentation it's three miles from the business parks by bike. I would hate to ride a
bike out there with the traffic the way it is. And those road improvements aren't on the
plan. You know, there is not too much except what has happened since that time is the
intersection improvement at South Eagle Road and Victory has been delayed even
longer. So, what has really changed? I'm afraid that you're going to be improving the
intersection -- lighting that intersection at Amity and South Eagle before we get an
intersection improvement at South Eagle and Victory, because that seems to be a
favorite project to continue to delay. So, I'm just asking you what has changed?
Armstrong: Well, Madam Mayor, I can't really speak to that, except that that last I guess
denial from this Council was made last year, I believe. Maybe it was April of last year. I
was not at Hubble Homes at that time. A lot has changed. We have changed our
staffing. We have changed our approach to projects. Instead of doing subdivisions, we
have committed to doing communities.
De Weerd: And, Jerry, you know, I agree with that. But what has changed as far as the
timing elements and the traffic and the urbanization of that area and not having
adequate infrastructure to provide safety for the kids and the people on the road that we
are going to be putting out there?
Armstrong: Well, Madam Mayor, one of the reasons in doing community building, you
provide on-site sidewalks; you provide opportunities for recreation on site, so you don't
have to go off. The second is by increasing the density, which the original proposal
didn't have this density, we provide higher impact fees, so that the Ada County Highway
District is responsible for putting the sidewalks on Eagle Road. We don't own the land.
It's a public right of way that's owned by ACHD. We don't have the control, but we are
providing them with additional funds to do that. We are also providing them with
additional funds to do the traffic lights. If you would rather see that money put into
sidewalks or some other improvement, I would suggest we sit down with ACHD and
negotiate that. The money is on the table. We are providing the money. So, if that's a
preference for this Council, then, let's go and sit down with them and they have been
agreeable to all the terms that we have -- we have offered to this date and we would be
happy to help facilitate that discussion with them. And it's doable. We sat down with
them with the light. We didn't think that was possible either, but they are accepting our
money.
Meridian City Council
April 15, 2008
Page 72 of 81
De Weerd: Well -- and they will. But that doesn't mean it's going to go into the
infrastructure supporting your development. And that's my concern. I know you
showed that the impact fees for the road you will generate is over finro million dollars.
That's pretty substantial. But that's based on all of those houses being in there and that
would be on the premise that they'd actually spend that money on that road and we all
know that's not really how reality works.
Armstrong: Well, Madam Mayor, I can't address ACHD's policy. They have their own
policies of where they spend their money, so --
De Weerd: But, Jerry, that's my concern and --
Armstrong: I know. I know. I understand and I understand the frustration, but I don't
have any control, other than we can go in and offer up ideas and work with ACHD to
educate them, so that where those priorities are, you get what you want at the end of
the day. It takes the true public-private partnership to do that. And we'll be right at the
table with you.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, anything further'?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Council? Okay. Any further information needed by the
Council?
Rountree: I need no more.
De Weerd: Okay. I would entertain a motion to close the public hearings on Item 11,
12 and 13.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I move to close the public hearings on Items 12, 13 and 14.
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: Well, how about 11, 12 and 13.
Rountree: Eleven, finrelve and thirteen.
Zaremba: Second agrees.
De Weerd: Because we already continued 14.
Rountree: Eleven, twelve and thirteen. It's getting late.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second. Second agrees to 11, 12 and 13?
Mr. Zaremba, did you second that?
Meridian City Council
April 15, 2008
Page 73 of 81
Zaremba: I did second it and I agree with the change.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Okay. What's your pleasure?
Rountree: Madam Mayor, my comments are as follows: This is the third time I think we
have heard this and boil it down to what I see are the issues that continue to come forth
with this particular project. Density, traffic, timing and quality. The density issue I think
is consistent with our Comprehensive Plan. The applicant has attempted to address the
traffic issues, but there are still going to be additional issues in terms infrastructure and
that ties into timing. When is the right time for this particular area to develop? I will go
back to my old saying that I'm not necessarily in that big of a hurry to annex areas into
the City of Meridian if we can't accommodate them very well. But the one item that
continues to come forth -- and it's even more so tonight than it has been in the past is
quality and I made a comment about quality at the last hearing and I will make the
quality again. It seems that there is a-- a feeling, a sense of the community -- and not
just this group -- but Hubble Homes -- and they certainly provide a portion of the market
that's needed, but they have built a reputation that they are really having difficulty to get
around. And with this particular application I think they have done a wonderFul job of
trying to do that, but they are asking us to accept what I feel is somewhat of an
experiment on their part to change and I have heard that they are attempting change
this in another subdivision, but an experiment of some 792 lots big and if it doesn't work,
that leaves us with even more issues than we have with some of the issues that have
been created already with the reputation that's -- that comes with this housing. So, I'm
having a hard time changing my opinion yet that I have held in the previous times this
has been before the Council. So, that's where I am at this point.
De Weerd: Thank you. Other comments from Council? Okay.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I have -- I appreciate that each time we say no we see a little bit of an
improvement the next time. But I agree with the question, what are we doing to solve
Eagle Road and this -- that issue, which was one of the major issues that I voted to
deny this subdivision the last time, still exists. That condition has not changed. Even
though there are parts of this that do align with the Comprehensive Plan, the overriding
consideration is whether or not this is in the best interest of Meridian for all of the
citizens and for all of our residents. And as Councilman Rountree said, some of that is
an issue of timing. I don't think we have the facilities in place for this to be the right time
and I don't feel that enough has changed in the right direction, since we heard this the
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April 15, 2008
Page 74 of 81
last time. And, granted, there have been a lot of improvements. I appreciate some of
the promises and offers that are being made. I still think we are stuck with this is not yet
in the best interest of Meridian.
De Weerd: Thank you. Any further comments? Any additional comment? Okay. If
there is no further comment, do I have a motion?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I don't have a motion, but I do have a comment or two, I guess. Same one I have
offered up about three times. Same testimony we have heard. Did have a couple of
new ones this time, thank God. I hate to judge on quality, because we got finro guys
sitting side by side here that don't agree on what quaiity building is. Everything's to their
own, what they like and what they don't like. I realize that Hubble probably has some
kind of a reputation that isn't, but being in the construction trade for 42 years, how many
do you want me to name don't have a good reputation.
Rountree: Don't start.
Bird: I won't start. But that I think is a-- is a feeble deal. The market's going to
determine what you build. As far as -- I think Councilman Borton brought up a good
point. You're not going to control rentals. I mean if I buy a place and I want to rent it out
and it's my property, I'm going to rent it out. We hope that that -- what was being done
is not being done so much because of the little bit of recession we are going through
and California don't have quite enough money to buy nine and ten -- well, they can't rent
out the nine and ten they are buying. So, the part I-- I think I'm most embarrassed
about is we keep -- every time we told them to go back and do this and do this and we
lined out the things and they went and done this done and done this and done this. So,
I don't know when it stops, whether you -- you know, I stated last time we either up it or
we down it, don't go back for more deals. Now, we decide to go back for more. They
come back, did everything that was asked now. So, that's enough. So, that's my say.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Real briefly. I don't disagree with really any of the comments here. It's a tough
balancing act. But as l have tracked the progress of this development over time I have
noticed and appreciate while some concerns are alleviated, a lot of concerns are and
there is lots of -- quite frankly, lots of positives with a difficult project in this difficult
process has improved it a great deal. There are a couple hurdles that I wrestle with.
Transportation really rises to the top. The timing and breadth of the improvements that
are going to be created and I know there is not unlimited resources in the developer's
tool chest to do everything and anything immediately, but that's a tough concern and,
Meridian City Council
April 15, 2008
Page 75 of 81
quite frankly, the park issue is one that 1 wrestled with in what's being provided and
what's being asked of the city. I'm appreciative and supportive of the overall concept,
but those are two of my primary reservations with the project.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Okay. Council, I will ask for your direction through a
motion.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: To move this along and to see how this goes, I move that we deny Item 11,
request for annexation and zoning.
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to deny Item 11. Is there any
discussion? Hearing none, Madam C{erk.
Roll-Call: Bird, nay; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, nay.
De Weerd: Madam Mayor tie breaker is aye.
MOTION CARRIED: TWO AYES. TWO NAYS. MAYOR AYE.
De Weerd: Item 12, PP 07-20 --
Bird: You didn't annex it. You don't even have to pass --
Nary: You still have to take up the others and deal with them.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I move that we not approve Item 12 and Item 13 for Castle
Rock Subdivision preliminary plat and planned unit development.
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second on Items 12 and 13 to deny based on not
annexed in the city. If there is no discussion, Madam Clerk, will you, please, call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, nay; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, nay.
De Weerd: Mayor aye.
MOTION CARRIED: TWO AYES. TWO NAYS. MAYOR AYE.
Meridian City Council
April 15, 2008
Page 76 of 81
Item 17: Public Hearing: ZOA 07-002 Request for a Zoning Ordinance
Amendment to amend the current provisions in Chapter 3, Article E
(Temporary Use Requirements) of the UDC (Title 11) and the definition of
Temporary Use found in Chapter 1, Article A for Temporarv Use UDC
Text Amendment by the Meridian City Planning Department:
De Weerd: Okay. Item 17 is a Public Hearing on ZOA 07-002.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I wasn't clear if we opened this
Public Hearing on the previous Public Hearing. No. I'm sorry. I did provide testimony
with regard to that. There was a memo in your packet from me. It was originally from
Mr. Hood and, then, I revised it. It added some additional language with regard to the
Parks Department and community events of the parks department. So, with that I
believe you have the corrected text in front of you. There is just one paragraph that's
being revised. The bulk of it is being deleted. And I believe Mrs. Kane has the
resolution ready to go. I'm not sure if it was in your packet for today or not.
Nary: Madam Mayor'?
Canning: It's not on the agenda, but --
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, because this was set for the hearing and
there was a change to the -- if the Council recalls, you have heard this before and you
asked to bring it back once the other ordinance had been approved. So, this is the
fastest clean up amendment you will ever get to have it on the same night, but because
there was a change we only noticed the hearing. There is the actual ordinance in your
packet. You certainly could pass it tonight, but I'd recommend we just put it on next
week, so we can notice it -- we can notice it as the actual ordinance, more consistent
with past process. That would probably make the most sense.
De Weerd: Okay.
Canning: Madam Mayor, did you have questions? You looked confused earlier.
Actually, all of you looked confused earlier. No? Okay.
De Weerd: Okay. Well, I'd entertain a motion to continue this item until next week,
which is the 22nd.
Bird: I move we continue Items 17 and 18, which are the same item to --
Nary: No. No. Eighteen.
Rountree: No. Eighteen's different.
Bird: Eighteen's an ordinance -- oh. Open your eyes, Keith. I move we continue Public
Hearing on ZOA 07-002 until April --
Meridian Ciry Council
April 15, 2008
Page 77 of 81
De Weerd: 22nd.
Bird: 22nd.
Rountree: 22nd.
Bird: -- 2002. Or 2008. Geez.
Nary: Madam Mayor'?
De Weerd: Can I have a second first?
Nary: Oh, sorry.
Zaremba: I'll second.
De Weerd: We don't have discussion during these kind of inenus or --
Nary: So sorry.
De Weerd: But what?
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, with your pleasure we will bring it back
for a waiver of the reading rules, since, again, this is really a clean-up amendment in
relation to the other one, unless you'd prefer to go through with the reading. That's your
-- that's your preference. But we certainfy can bring it back for a waiver.
De Weerd: Okay. I have motion and a second to continue to next week. All those in
favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 18: Ordinance No. RZ 07-023 Request for Rezone of
0.62 acres from R-4 to an R-8 zone for Blackstone No. 2 by Landmark
Engineering and Planning, Inc. - 4700 West Aspen Creek Street:
De Weerd: Okay. Item 18 is Ordinance No. 08-1355. Madam Clerk, will you, please,
read this ordinance by title only.
Holman: Thank you, Madam Mayor. City of Meridian Ordinance No. 08-1355, an
ordinance finding that Projects West, Inc., the owner of certain real property has made a
written request for rezone of the zoning classification RZ 07-023, Blackstone
Subdivision No. 2, for real property being a parcel of land in the northwest one quarter
of Section 10, Township 3 North, Range 1 West of the Boise Meridian, Ada County,
Idaho, as described in Attachment A of this ordinance and rezoning certain lands and
Meridian City Council
April 15, 2008
Page 78 of 81
territory situated in Ada County, Idaho, and within the corporate limits of the City of
Meridian, and rezoning the land use zoning classification of said lands from R-- low
density residential district to R-8 medium density residential district in the Meridian City
Code, providing that copies of this ordinance shall be filed with the Ada County
assessor, the Ada County recorder, and the Idaho State Tax Commission, as required
by law, and providing for a summary of the ordinance and providing for a waiver of the
reading rules and providing an effective date.
De Weerd: Thank you. You have heard this ordinance read by title only. Is there
anyone left here that wants it heard in its entirety? Ms. Little? Okay. Seeing none, do I
have an ordinance to -- I mean a motion to approve?
Bird: Madam Mayor, I move we approve Ordinance 08-1355 with suspension of rules.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to approve Item 18. If there is no
discussion, Madam Clerk, will you, please, call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, just a couple of dates to throw at you. April 16th, which is
actually tomorrow, we have our 3rd Street alignment study from 4:00 to 6:30 at Meridian
police department. Also, I do apologize for Monday, that we didn't have strategic
planning meeting with you, but I would like to propose two dates, April 29 or May 13th
from 5:00 to 9:00 -- or 5:30 to 9:30 for the strategic planning. The 29th is the fifth
Tuesday, which we normally would not meet. We are -- those that are going to the
leadership conference in Sun Valley would be returning on that day and we would be
there in time.
Bird: Oh, heavens, yeah. We always have been.
De Weerd: Or the 13th is already a workshop that's set aside. What we are trying to do
is do it when you regularly set your evenings aside, so we can have you all there. And
so I would look for your direction on when we could reset this.
Bird: Madam Mayor'?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: My preference is just hit it the 29th, because I think we have already got
something on the workshop, don't we? The 13th?
De Weerd: Yeah. Something was just suggested.
Meridian City Council
April 15, 2008
Page 79 of 81
Bird: And this is something that we need to spend a good finro or three or four hours.
Strictly on. I'd go for the 29th myself, if everybody else is.
De Weerd: Are others good with that?
Zaremba: Works for me.
De Weerd: The 29th?
Rountree: Fine by me.
Zaremba: That should be plenty of time to get back.
De Weerd: Okay. And --
Zaremba: At what time?
Rountree: 5:30.
De Weerd: And -- 5:30. And, again, I apologize for Monday, but --
Zaremba: And would we do that here or at the police department?
De Weerd: Okay. And, Council, we did refine the topics of discussion. We don't need
comments back. We will get those cleaned up and get them out to you. Budget
hearings, I would like to remind you the enterprise budget hearings are on June 24th
and that is from 8:00 to noon. And July 9th is general fund and special services and
that's all day.
Zaremba: July 9th?
De Weerd: July 9th. So, June 24th from 8:00 to noon and July 9th all day. Okay. How
are you on the 17th? How am I on the 17th? How is everyone on the 17th?
Zaremba: What day of the week is that?
De Weerd: That's a Tuesday. And that would be from 8:00 to noon. We can check.
We will say all of Council is available, so, hopefully, accounting and public works can
be, too.
Rountree: My comment was if we are going to schedule the budget meeting on the
17th, the Council meeting day, we ought to maybe consider having it in the evening,
because we are always wondering how to get people here to participate and see what's
going on. Maybe they would show up in the evening, opposed to the day time, so --
Meridian Ciry Council
April 15, 2008
Page 80 of 81
De Weerd: Well, they need four hours and that would preclude I guess any
applications.
Rountree: Yeah. We wouldn't schedule anything else on that --
Zaremba: 7:00 to 11:00. Or earlier.
Bird: How about 6:00 to 10:00?
Rountree: I just throw that out to think about.
De Weerd: Well --
Rountree: We don't have to decide tonight. But the 17th we are going to do something
on the budget, whether it's in the afternoon or in the evening.
De Weerd: And, remember, you would have, then, staff here after hours.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, just so you know, I'm looking at the
budget -- the budget calendar and they don't show anything on that week. I would -- I
think as you talked about it and looking at it, I don't know if Mrs. Kilchenmann has any
issues of compressing that back a week, so --
Rountree: That's true.
Nary: -- there is nothing scheduled at the moment for -- that's due. The last thing on
here prior to the 24th is budget dollars that work for the department. So, I think that's a-
- must be a workshop that they are doing. So, just so you know.
De Weerd: So, we will run that by Stacy. We will schedule the Council strategic
planning workshop for April 29th and, please, note that the Mayor's prayer breakfast is
on the 24th. That is 6:45 a.m. and we would love to see you there. I think probably
Peggy is looking for RSVPs, I would imagine, Robert. Okay. And just to update Council
on the Meridian Food Bank, I have been in discussions with Jay Schweitcer with the
Ada County Highway District about the property on Bower and they won't be renewing
that lease and they have asked that the Meridian Food Bank call them the first week of
May and they can start discussions. So, did want to give you an update on that. With
that I would entertain a motion to adjourn.
Rountree: So moved.
Bird: Second.
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April 15, 2008
Page 81 of 81
De Weerd: All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 11:08 P.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEED GS)
~~~~
MAYOR TAMMY WEERD
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