HomeMy WebLinkAbout2008 04-01Meridian Cit Council Meetin Aril 1 2008
A meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 7:00 p.m., Tuesday, April
1, 2008, by Vice-President David Zaremba.
Members Present: Keith Bird, Joe Borton, and David Zaremba.
Members Absent: Mayor Tammy de Weerd (arrived at 8:25), Charlie Rountree.
Others Present: Bill Nary, Jaycee Holman, Anna Canning, Bob Stowe, Bill Johnson,
Tom Barry and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance:
Rvll call.
X David Zaremba X Joe Borton
O Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
O Mayor Tammy de Weerd (arrived ac s:zs~
Zaremba: Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. I'll call to order this regular meeting of
the Meridian City Council for April 1st, 2008. It is approximately 7:00 p.m. and we will
begin with roll call attendance.
Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance:
Zaremba: All right. We do have a quorum, so we will proceed. Item 2 an our agenda
is the pledge of allegiance. If you will all, please, rise.
(Pledge of allegiance recited.)
Item 3: Community Invocation by Pastor Gordon Slyter with Treasure Valley
Worship Center:
Zaremba: Thank you. Item 3 is the community invocation by Pastor Gordan Slyter of
the Treasure Valley Worship Center. As he comes forward we invite you to join us in
the invocation or take this as a moment of personal reflection.
Slyter: Let's pray. Our Father, we thank you for your daily provision for our needs. We
thank you for your faithful sustenance for our community and all of our citizens. And we
thank you for your grace, amazing grace, that lovingly extends to us a first chance and a
second chance and a third chance to walk in right relationship with you and with our
fellow man. We pray, oh, Lord, that you would continue to keep our city under your
protection and in your good favor. Please, bless these proceedings here tonight. May
Meridian City Council
April 1, 2008
Page 2 of 52
kindness, understanding, equity, righteousness and justice prevail. Thank you for these
things we pray through Christ our Lord, amen.
Zaremba: Thank you, Pastor. The Mayor often hands aut a pin. I don't know if I have
access to her drawer or not.
Bird: You bet you do.
Item 4: Adoption of the Agenda:
Zaremba: You're set already. All right. Thank you very much. I'm going to keep yours.
Thank you very much. I don't have one of those. Okay. Item 4 on our agenda is the
adoption of the agenda.
Bird: Mr. Vice-president?
Zaremba: Mr. Bird.
Bird: On the Consent Agenda we need to remove Items H and I, the budget
amendment, and bring them back next week under department reports, I believe, is the
-- the issues of the Council and -- Planning and Zoning need to redo that. Item K, our
resolution number is 08-605. And under Item M, vacate the beer, wine, and liquor
license for Corona Village. In the regular agenda Item No. 21 is ordinance number 08-
1354. And Item 22 has been asked to be added by the city attorney for an Executive
Session under 67-2345(1)(f). And we have also been asked, if Council would want,
under 6-A, Planning and Zoning would like to have a little talk on collecting fees for DA,
if you want to do that, yr if you want to wait until next week when all -- when Charlie's
back or the whole Council is here -- Mayor and the whole Council.
Zaremba: Does it involve budget, is that what you're talking about?
Bird: No, it don't involved budget, just fees. I had no problem with letting her do that if
she'd like.
Zaremba: Let's add it to today.
Bird: Okay. We add 6-A, then, Planning and Zoning. With that I move we approve the
revised agenda.
Borton: Second.
Zaremba: Thank you. We have a motion and a second to approve the agenda as
revised. All in favor say aye. Any opposed? That motion carries. Thank you.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
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April 1, 2008
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Item 5: Consent Agenda:
A. Approve Minutes of February 26, 2008 City Council Regular
Meeting:
B. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Denial: RZ 07-
020 Request for Rezone of 10.1 acres from R-4 to R-40 zoning
district for Selway Apartments by Meridian Apartments, LLC -
west of North Goddard Creek Road and north of McMillan Road:
C. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: RZ 07-
023 Request far Rezone of 0.62 acres from R-4 to an R-8 zone for
Blackstone No. 2 by Landmark Engineering and Planning, Inc. -
4700 West Aspen Creek Street:
D. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: PFP
07-004 Request for Combined Preliminary /Final Plat approval of 3
residential lots on 0.59 of an acre located in the R-4 zoning district
for Blackstone No. 2 by Landmark Engineering and Planning,
Inc. - 4700 West Aspen Creek Street:
E. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: AZ 07-
020 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 21.81 acres from RUT
to R-15 zone for Chalet Marseilles by RC Meridian Partners, LLC
- Northwest Corner of East Ustick Road and North Locust Grove
Road:
F. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: PP 07-
027 Request fora Preliminary Plat approval with 3 residential
building lots and 1 common lot in a proposed R-15 zone for Chalet
Marseilles by RC Meridian Partners, LLC -Northwest Corner of
East Ustick Road and North Locust Grove Road:
G. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: CUP
07-023 Request for Conditional Use Permit for 122 multi-family
dwelling units in a proposed R-15 zone an approximately 21.5
acres for Chalet Marseilles by RC Meridian Partners, LLC -
Northwest Corner of East Ustick Road and North Locust Grove
Road:
J. Water Main Easement Agreement for EI Dorado Buil_ding No.
7 by Kimball Properties, LP:
K. Resolution No. Travel Policy:
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April 1, 2008
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L.
M.
Water Main Easement,,,, Agreement for CPA Investments
Building by Kimball Properties, LP:
Approve Beer, Wine and Liquor License„,Renewals:
Sizzler #215 3380 N. Eagle Rd. Beer & Wine
The Big Smoke 234 W. Franklin Rd. Beer 8~ Wine
Red Robin 1475 N. Eagle Rd. Beer 81 Liquor
Applebees Grill 1460 N. Eagle Rd. Beer ~ Liquor
Sa-wad-dee 1890 E. Fairview Ave. Beer $~ Liquor
Jacksons #1 412 Fairview Ave. Beer & Wine
Jacksons #11 1585 Me ridian Rd. Beer & Wine
Jacksons #35 522 W. Cherry Lane Beer 8~ Wine
Jacksons #56 66 E. State St. Beer 8~ Wine
Jacksons #97 3100 E. Magic View Beer ~ Wine
Jacksons #98 1950 E. Fairview Ave. Beer 8~ Wine
Jacksons #99 180 E. Central Dr. Beer 8: Wine
Jacksons #105 3291 E. Pine St. Beer 8~ Wlne
Jacksons #118 1651 W. Franklin Rd. Beer & Wine
Wal-Mart #2862 4051 E. Fairview Ave. Beer $< Wine
N. Approve. Beer, Wine Transfer of Owner. License Application
from Sidelines to Firehouse ,Pub and Grill. LLC, 1767 W.
Franklin Rd., Suite 180, Meridian, 83642:
O. Permanent Easement Contract for the Sewer Main Extension at
Powers Residence Pro'ect with Lyle H. Powers for $10,076.85:
Zaremba: Next item on the agenda is the Consent Agenda.
Bird: Mr. Vice-president?
Zaremba: Councilman Bird.
Bird: I move that we approve the agenda -- Consent Agenda with the removal of H and
to next week's budget to department. Item K is -- the number resolution is 08-605.
Vacate the Corona Village beer, wine and liquor license from M. And with that I move
that we approve the revised Consent Agenda and far the Vice-president to sign and
Clerk to attest.
Borton: Second.
Zaremba: Okay. We have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda as
amended. I don't know if I caught it, but to clarify, the one that's being removed from
Item M is Corona Village.
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April 1, 2008
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Bird: Yes.
Zaremba: Okay. All in favor say aye. Any opposed? Motion carries. Thank you.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 6: Department Reports:
A. Planning Department
1. Collecting Fees for Development Agreements:
Zaremba: That does bring us to our budget reports. Item 6-A is a report from P&Z.
Director Canning.
Canning: Vice-president Zaremba, no, actually, the Planning Department report was on
a different issue. The budget items were just vacated, so we can fix them and bring
them back.
Zaremba: Oh.
Bird: Yeah. They were vacated until next week under department reports.
Zaremba: I didn't realize you were talking about the same thing. Okay.
Canning: Thank you for allowing me this brief department report. You recently
approved new fee schedule and one of the new fees that I mentioned to you was a fee
for development agreements and we have been racking our brains trying to figure out
when and where and how to collect this and we have run into kind of two major choices
and we just wanted to know from Council which way you would like to go. They are --
it's just something we could use guidance on. The two choices would appear to be to
collect it at the time of application for any annexation and rezone and, practically, we
are having a DA with any annexation or rezone these days. If that were ever to change
we could, of course, change when we collect it, but that would seem to be the easiest.
We could, then, refund the fee if there was na development agreement needed in the
end. But I do think that that would be a rare instance currently. We recommend -- if
that's the approach you'd like take, we could recommend that any projects in process
would not be subject to the DA fee, but that any new annexation and rezones we will
just collect the development agreement fee and implement it that way. The other choice
would be to do it prior to adoption of the ordinance -- or prior to you approving the DA.
And this would require some very careful coordination between the clerks, the
attorneys, and the planning department all at the same time and we are just a little
worried it might get a little too confusing and that we might miss some fees or slow
down a project and we never like to do that, sa -- but if that's the scenario you'd like to
ga, then, we'd recommend that we will start informing applicants on projects from today
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April 1, 2008
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forward that have a DA that they will be subject to that DA fee. So, those were kind of
the two options and we just wanted to get Council's feel on which way they'd like to go.
Zaremba: Council?
Nary: Mr. Vice-president?
Zaremba: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Mr. Vice-president, Members of the Council, hadn't had a chance to talk with Mrs.
Canning prior to the meeting. My only -- my concern isn't if we collect them up front
and refund them, I think finance may have a bigger heartburn in trying to do that. And
only because I think it's a tracking issue for them. I mean you're collecting a large fee -
- Iguess Ilook at it like a big piece of pie. You're going to collect this whole big piece
of pie and, then, you're going to save one sliver and, then, decide if you end up giving it
back and it -- from a tracking perspective that may be cumbersome. Now, I didn't
discuss it with finance, maybe Mrs. Canning did. I just have a feeling in my experience
with the finance department they -- they don't like to refund flees if they don't have to. It
hasn't been a problem, I think, if we collect the fees at the time the Council directs that a
development agreement is required. When I spoke with Mr. Baird, who was at the
meeting earlier today with Mrs. Canning to discuss this, the feeling at the time that he
had was that sometimes at that portion of the project it feels like we have sort of
squeezed a lot of toothpaste out of the tube at that point and trying to get more fees
may seem a little troubling. But the folks who are asking for annexation or rezones,
they don't seem to have a problem calling my office about 14 times to see if that
development agreement is done. So, I don't have a problem in requiring that they get
the fee paid, too, and that they can pay that through the clerk's office, they can get a
receipt, you know, they can -- they can get that taken care of and we can process the --
I think we have been fairly successful at processing development agreements
reasonably quickly once they have been approved and required. Usually it's not -- it's
not my department or my staff that holds it up, it's usually sitting on a developer's desk
until they are reading to sign it. But I think that was the real discussion, at least from Mr.
Baird's perspective and I'm just concerned that finance is probably going to having a
concern about trying to refund fees later and I don't think it's that troubling to collect the
fees later, so --
Bird: Mr. Vice-president?
Zaremba: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I agree and I believe we can collect fees -- if we collect -- make sure they are
collected before we sign it -- I believe we sign it after they do, am I not right?
Nary: Yep.
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April 1, 2008
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Bird: And so I dan't see any prablem. It would be a nightmare for finance to have to
come back and pull out a dime when you charge a dollar.
Nary: And, actually, Mr. Vice-president and Members of the Council, unless you tell me
different, my preference would be that they pay the fee before we prepare it. I don't
really want to expend my staff -- the fees are to cover their time, so I really don't want to
expend the staff time to do that until they have paid the fee and that's not -- that's not
going to be too difficult I don't think.
Bird: I don't see a problem at all.
Zaremba: I agree with that part of it is that it gives them more incentive to sign it quickly
on their part and get it back. If it sits on their desk waiting for a signature, knowing that
the minute they sign it they are going to have to pay something, it may sit there longer.
So, to expedite it I agree that I would just as soon the fee be before our legal
department starts to work on it, if that's doable.
Canning: We will make it so.
Zaremba: 1 do have one question, though, if I may.
Canning: Yes, sir.
Zaremba: I felt that the new Unified Development Code was supposed to eliminate
most of the development agreements. Are we still having a lot of them?
Canning: Every annexation and rezone pretty much has a development agreement for
the purpose of tying elevations and site plans to them. It's really just the elevations and
site plans.
Zaremba: If that's a consistent thing, can we get that into the UDC somehow?
Canning: You're not Madam Mayor. Vice-president Zaremba, we are working on the
design guidelines, which as they get implemented and Council gets mare comfortable
with the results of those guidelines, we hope to see a drop in the need far the
development agreements, but until we have those up and fully running we anticipate
development agreements attached to almost every annexation or rezone.
Zaremba: So, I don't think we need a vote, but if you to a consensus, I think we are
saying that at the time the attorney would start being involved is when we would collect
them.
Canning: We will do that, then.
Zaremba: If that's workable.
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April 1, 2008
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Bird: Mr. Vice-president? Anna, I'd also suggest that you write up a little policy and
make sure all developers are handed that to start with far the first month or so until they
get use to it.
Canning: I will do that. That's a great suggestion. Thank you.
Item 7: Items Moved from Consent Agenda:
Zaremba: All right. Thank you. Then, our next item is Item 7, items moved from the
Consent Agenda. There were Wane of those.
Item 8: FP 08-003 Request for Final Plat approval far 3 commercial building lots
and 3 common lots on 4.52 acres in a C-N zoning district for Woodland
Springs Subdivision by Landmark Engineering & Planning, Inc. -
Northwest Corner of Locust Grove Road and McMillan Road:
Zaremba: So, we will proceed on to Item 8 and that is a request for final plat 08-003
and we will start with the director.
Canning: I have got to talk to them, so you got to give me thumbs up or thumbs down.
Thumbs down. Okay. The applicant has just asked me to pull this item and continue it
until next week.
Zaremba: Do we need a motion to do that?
Barton: Mr. Vice-president?
Zaremba: Councilman Borton.
Borton: I'd move that we move Item 8, FP 08-003 to the next regularly scheduled
Council meeting on April 8th.
Bird: Second.
Canning: Is it time for discussion?
Barton: It is.
Canning: That is one of your workshop hearings.
Zaremba: I was going to ask if that was a workshop.
Borton: April 15th.
Zaremba: April 15th.
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April 1, 2008
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Bird: Second agrees.
Zaremba: Okay. We have a motion and a second to move this -- continue it to April
15th. We actually haven't opened the hearing. If you would pass your concern to
Director Canning she can --
Canning: ,All right. The applicant asks that now that you hear -- that you take action on
the item tonight. If you'd like to -- you have already continued it, so you would have to
vacate your current motion and he asks that he hear it -- that you take an actian on it
tonight.
Zaremba: Okay.
Bird: I pull my second.
Borton: And pull the motion.
Zaremba: Okay. The motion has been withdrawn, which means we stand to proceed
with Item 8, which is FP 08-003 and we will deal with that tonight.
Canning: Vice-president Zaremba, we have a letter from the applicant stating they are
in agreement with the conditions of approval and we recommend approval of this final
plat.
Zaremba: Okay. Let's see. This is not a Public Hearing, but any comments from the
Council?
Bird: I have Wane.
Zaremba: Okay. In that case (believe --
Borton: Mr. Vice-president?
Zaremba: -- a motion is in order. Councilman Borton.
Borton: Anna, are you cvmfartable going forward? I mean from the thumbs up and
thumbs down that were just moments ago.
Canning: Yes, sir. The applicant spoke to me just before the hearing asking if he could
move a lot line. I said no. So, he's not sure if they really want to go forward with it or if
they need they will come back and do a modification while they are in the process of
getting their signatures, but they want to be able to move forward and get going on their
signatures.
Borton: Okay.
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April 1, 20D8
Page 1 D of 52
Canning: So, I am comfortable.
Borton: Mr. Vice-president?
Zaremba: Councilman Borton.
Borton: I would move that we approve Item 8, FP 08-003 with staff and applicant's
comment and approval.
Bird: Second.
Zaremba: We have a motion and a second. All in favor say aye. Any opposed? I'm
sorry, do we need a roll call vote on that one?
Bird: Yeah.
Holman: I believe that's a roll call vote.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, absent; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
Zaremba: The motion passes. Thank you.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 9: FP 08-005 Request for Final Plat approval for 33 residential building lots
and 1 common lot on 7.61 acres in an R-8 zone for Paramount
Subdivision No. 16 by Paramount, LLC -west of North Meridian Road
and north of West McMillan Road:
Zaremba: All right. Then, we are ready for Item 9, which is a final plat 08-005 for
Paramount Subdivision.
Canning: Vice-president Zaremba, we also have a letter from the applicant stating they
are in agreement with the conditions of approval. I do need you to reference in your
motion the latest a-mail from Jenny Veatch. I think you have gotten a couple probably
from the clerks on this one and it's just refining a couple of the conditions of approval
with regard to fencing is --
Zaremba: Okay. Again, this is not a Public Hearing, but, Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none.
Zaremba: Okay. I would entertain a motion including the clarification that Director
Canning asked for.
Barton: Mr. Vice-president?
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April 1, 2008
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Zaremba: Councilman Borton.
Borton: I'd move that we approve Item 9 FP 08-005, inclusive of the noted a-mail
change and remarks by Jenny Veatch.
Bird: Second.
Zaremba: We have a motion and a second. May I have a roll call vote, please.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, absent; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
Zaremba: That motion passes. Thank you.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 10: FP 07-032 Request for Final Plat approval for 192 multi-family units on 48
building lots and 1 common lot on 13.99 acres in an R-15 zone for
Canterbury Commons Subdivision by Canterbury Commons, LLC -
south of West Pine Avenue and east of North Ten Mile Road:
De Weerd: We move onto Item 10, which is final plat 07-032 for Canterbury Commons
Subdivision. Director Canning.
Canning: Vice-president Zaremba, we also have a letter from the applicant stating they
are in agreement with the conditions of approval. You may have some comments in
your packet and these were related tv some desire on the applicant to do a surety,
instead of placing things, but those don't affect the final plat conditions at all. We can
deal with them later. But there is a discussion chain about landscaping requirements.
But, otherwise, it's ready to go.
Zaremba: Okay. Thank you. Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none.
Zaremba: Okay. We are ready for a motion on that one, then.
Borton: Mr. Vice-president?
Zaremba: Councilman Borton.
Barton: I move that we approve Item 10, FP 07-032.
Bird: Secand.
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April 1, 2008
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Zaremba: Okay: We have a motion and a second. May we have a roll call vote,
please.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, absent; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
Zaremba: That motion passes. Thank you.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 11: Continued Public Hearing from March 4, 2008: RZ 07-021 Request for
a Rezone of 27.89 acres from R-4 to C-N (2.75 acres) and L-O (25.14
acres) for the property located on the southeast corner of North Locust
Grove Road and East Leigh Field Drive for Education Campus
Commercial by Joint School District No. 2 -Southeast Corner of North
Locust Grove Road and East Leigh Field Drive:
Item 12: Continued Public Hearing from March 4, 2008: PP 07-025 Request for
Preliminary Plat approval of 7 commercial building lots on 25.$7 acres in
proposed L-O and C-N zones for Education Campus, Commercial by
Joint School District No. 2 -Southeast Corner of North Locust Grove
Road and East Leigh Field Drive:
Item 13: Continued Public Hearing from March 4, 2008: MI 08-002 Request for
a Miscellaneous application to modify the existing Development
Agreement for Education Campus Commercial by Joint School District
No. 2 -Southeast Corner of North Locust Grove Road and East Leigh
Field Drive:
Zaremba: Okay. Items 11, 12 and 13 are RZ 07-021, PP 07-025, and MI 08-002, all
relating to Education Campus Commercial. I will re-open the continued public hearings
from March 4th and begin with the staff report.
Canning: Vice-president Zaremba, Members of the Council, this is the -- as you
mentioned, the continued hearing for the Education Campus Commercial. At your last
hearing you asked the applicant to return to address a few issues. One was appropriate
design standards, another safe walkways and crossings for students -- if you remember
that discussion. Third was the location of a private road. And, fourth, I believe there
was a request and it was very minor, but I believe there was some request to go
through and look at L-O and C-N uses and decide if same of them were more
appropriate than others or if any were inappropriate far that area, given it's proximity to
all the schools. Sa, since the hearing you do have written testimony from Becky McKay
and it answers the first three questions, but, again, there was a little bit of disagreement
an the question about the uses. Not disagreement, but they may have additional
testimony with regard to appropriate uses or may nat. With that they have
recommended a change to condition 4.1.10 and I believe that's spelled out specifically
in the letter and it is consistent with what they are proposing. They did meet with staff.
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April 1, 2008
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We feel they have addressed your concerns with regard to the safe pathway, the design
standards, and the crossing for students and the locatian of the private road. Those are
all addressed in the letter. And with that I will answer any questions. The motion
should include those changes to -- if Council is sa inclined to 4.1.10.
Zaremba: Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none.
Zaremba: All right. In that case, we will hear from the applicant if we may.
McKay: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Members of the Council. Becky McKay,
Engineering Solutions, 1029 North Rosario, Meridian. As Anna indicated, we -- we did
send a letter. We met with the staff as instructed by the Council here a few weeks ago.
The school district was present, myself, Anna, and same of her staff to, obviously,
discuss the concerns that the Council brought up and to make sure that we could come
to some agreement on how we were going to handle same of these issues. One of the
things that in reading through the minutes of the last hearing, there was some confusion
concerning the pedestrian -- existing pedestrian facilities and we created -- I don't know
-- Anna, do you have it? Oh, there it is. We created the map, which delineates what is
existing and, then, what would be future. As you can see in the red there is a very
extensive pathway network that already exists out at that facility. We have existing
sidewalk all along Locust Grave. It's detached from the roadway. We have a paved
asphalt path that links to it and, then, there is a little short stretch here, so that the
Summerfield kids can came here and come down this path. It goes to this charter
school here, comes around. There is a crossing guard that is stationed at this locatian.
There is also a pedestrian friendly signage and a crossing and we did ga vut and take
photographs and we did a-mail that to your staff. There is another pedestrian friendly
crossing here and, then, there is detached sidewalk all along Leighfield on the south
side and, then, there is an attached walk along the north side of Leighfield. Currently
there is this L-shape here and one of the questions was -- as far as treating that as a
private road, I believe Councilman Rountree -- his primary concern about the private
road was -- the issue is could it go on through and in my discussions with the school
district and staff, the private road would just consist of this L-shaped here and it's more
like a private drive than it is a roadway. The district has no intentions of extending it
through. Right now there is just kind of like -- I believe this little gravel emergency
access here and they indicated if -- if there were some interconnectivity from this portion
of Leighfield to the private road, that they would put up some type of bollards or gates or
something, so that this did not become a thoroughfare, because their intent is,
obviously, that, you know, this traffic continue to use Leighfield as a collector as it was
designed. We show in blue -- one of the things that staff brought to our attention was
the fact that in order to meet the standards for a private road we would have to install
sidewalk on one -- at least one side of this stretch. There is already existing sidewalk
along this stretch here with pedestrian friendly crossings, so we would have to -- where
you see the blue and the blue pedestrian friendly crossing that would be the
improvements that we would need to make. Naw, in evaluating the site there are
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April 1, 2008
Page 14 of 52
existing streetlights along here, existing trees, so we would like the option of installing
sidewalk either on the west or east portion of that roadway, because it may conflict with
some of the existing improvements they have in there. There may not be enough
room. It also appeared they had some storm drainage facilities. So, we do need that
flexibility. We talked about -- I know there was a discussion concerning pedestrian
friendly pavers and so forth. The school district has signage up at all of the existing
crossings. They are clearly striped and the district felt that the children are accustomed
to the striping for these pedestrian crosswalks and to go in and put pavers or colored
concrete stamped pavers, they are going to end up just striping over the top of them.
So, any esthetics beauty would be diminished as they paint aver the top of it and they
do cost about 10,000 dollars each to go in and retro fit. They are a spendy item,
because we have had some projects where we did that. So, the district feels that they
have a good pedestrian circulation. out there and that they will go in and fill in the gap
that -- that we have right through this area and complete that. One of the other things
that was brought up concerning the pedestrian traffic is their intersection with vehicular
traffic. The schools here are on a different schedule than the elementary. Their day
begins before the elementary, so those cars are already there parked, the kids are in
their classrooms when the elementary kids head to -- to school and these facilities also
get out earlier than the elementary. So, they feel that, you know, they don't have that
vehicular pedestrian overlap that was of concern. As far as the design standards, we
did talk with Anna. We are in agreement to meet all design standards of the current
UDC and we didn't feel that that was an issue. We did ask for one modification on our
condition 4.1.10 and staff was in agreement with that. Now, Anna did bring up the issue
of the uses. We didn't discuss that when we met with her, but it kind of cropped up
here. I read through the minutes and there was, as Anna indicated, just kind of a brief
reference to compatibility of the uses. Well, obviously, with the L-O designation and C-
N, that C-N, you know, is neighborhood commercial. The uses are geared to coexist
with residential uses, office uses. We are not asking for, you know, an intensive
commercial use. This is just a neighborhood commercial zone. The L-O is also a
zoning that's compatible with schools, residences. We have C-N directly across the
street at Quenzer Commons or Heritage Commons I think as they market it. They have
a C-N zoning designation. We have Brockton Office complex that's located across the
street. They have an L-O designation. So, I guess the district is not asking for
anything greater than what is across the street and they feel that -- that this is an
appropriate zone and the uses as outlined in the UDC would be able to be compatible
and coexist with the existing uses. And Eric Exline is here from the district. Wendell's
out of town. And he can answer any further questions that you may have. Thank you.
Zaremba: Thank you. Council, any questions of Mrs. McKay?
Bird: I have none.
Borton: No.
Zaremba: Thank you. Eric, do you have anything tv add yr -- okay. Ladies and
gentlemen, this is a Public Hearing. We didn't have anybody else signed up to speak,
Meridian City Council
April 1, 2008
Page 15 of 52
but this is your opportunity if you have an opinion to give us one way or the other.
Seeing none, Council, what's your pleasure?
Canning: Vice-president Zaremba?
Zaremba: I'm sorry. Director Canning.
Bird: I think Anna's got something.
Canning: I wanted to show you the allowed uses for the C-N zone. You know, Idon't --
think there are just a couple uses that may not be appropriate. One would be a drive-
thru, given that there are a lot of kids in the area, even if they are not driving -- walking
by the C-N area, adding more traffic to that may not be appropriate. And the only other
one would be the drinking establishment. It's conditionally allowed, but through the
development agreement it would be pretty easy to -- I think it would be just outside the
-- or may just be outside the limited where they could have one based on the thousand
foot, but I'm not sure. That might be a nice one to remove, but in general, you know, the
C-N uses are very neighborhood compatible, but just given its proximity I think maybe
thinking about those two uses may be appropriate.
Zaremba: Bath of those that you mentioned would require a CUP anyhow, wouldn"t
they? We'd have the opportunity to --
Canning: Na. The drive-thru, depending on its proximity to the residential, may not.
Zaremba: Okay. I agree with your instinct that it probably ought to not be allowed.
Does the applicant have any comment on that? On the microphone if you would,
please, sir. State your name for the record, please.
Exline: Eric Exline, public information, Meridian School District. If you were able to
preclude those, we wouldn't have objection.
Zaremba: Okay.
Borton: Mr. Vice-president?
Zaremba: Yes.
Borton: And maybe with that comment it's not necessary, but could you have the
requirement far a CUP for any drive-thru, regardless of its proximity. It allows us to look
at it. It doesn't necessarily preclude its use on this property, just requires them to come
back no matter what.
Canning: We could do that.
Meridian City Council
April 1, 20Q$
Page 16 of 52
Exline: So, that, then, the school district would have the opportunity to comment on
whatever the use would be. That would be terrific.
Borton: Okay.
Zaremba: Thank you.
Bird: I would prefer that myself.
Zaremba: That sounds good it me. Any further comments from anybody?
Bird: I have none.
Zaremba: Okay. Council?
Borton: Mr. Vice-president?
Zaremba: Councilman Borton.
Borton: If there is no other comment, I'd move that we close the Public Hearing on
items 11, 12 and 13.
Bird: Second.
Zaremba: Okay. We have a motion and a second close the public hearing. All in favor
say aye. Any opposed? Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Borton: Mr. Vice-president?
Zaremba: Councilman Barton.
Borton: I would move -- a question for legal. Do these -- can these be addressed in a
single motion?
Nary: Yes.
Borton: Okay. I would move that we approve Item 11, RZ 07-021, Item 12, PP 07-025,
and Item 13, MI O8-002, to include staff and applicant's comments and with regards to
the drive-thru in the C-N zone, that a CUP be required for any drive-thru use upon the
property.
Zaremba: Regardless of its distance.
Barton: Regardless of it's proximity to the school.
Meridian City Council
April 1, 2008
Page 17 of 52
Zaremba: Since that seems to be the modifying factor.
Barton: And that condition 4.1.10 be modified as requested by the applicant concerning
design standards.
Zaremba: We have a motion. Is there a second?
Bird: I second it. I was just waiting to see if he was done.
Borton: I'm done.
Zaremba: All right. Thank you. We do have a motion and a second and we will ask for
a roll call vote, please.
Bird: Anna's got something.
Canning: Just to clarify, Council.
Zaremba: Some discussion?
Canning: I'm sorry. Did you want -- you didn't want to address drinking
establishments? I just want to clarify.
Bird: That's --
Borton: It's my take is it's a condltlonal use -- or a CUP required, we'd see it again,
state statute regulates the proximity to schools. I don't think there is a place on this
property where you could put one anyway. Nonetheless, it would come back.
Bird: I don't think there is a place.
Canning: Okay.
Borton: Unless Council wants to modify it just to preclude drinking establishments --
Bird: It's a CUP and I don't think -- with the schools there I don't think there is any piece
of that property that's far enough away that you could have drinking. And it has to come
back for a CUP anyway.
Borton: Unless the district would like to request that it be removed.
Zaremba: We did close the Public Hearing. If you would pass that information to
Director Canning, she can discuss it with us.
Borton: This would be with regards just to the drinking establishment.
Meridian City Council
April 1, 2008
Page 18 of 52
Canning: I think the applicant is in favor of having it precluded. He said that would be
fine.
Barton: Okay. I would modify the motion to include removing the drinking
establishment from an available use in this C-N zone.
Bird: Second agrees.
Zaremba: Okay. Now, we have a complete motion and, again, we will ask for a roll call
vote, please.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, absent; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
Zaremba: Those three items pass.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 14: Continued Public Hearing from March 25, 2008: CUP 07-022 Request
for a Conditional Use Permit for a medical office in the O-T zoning district
that does not meet the criteria of the Downtown Meridian Design
Guidelines for Meridian Eve Care by Dr. Dan Thieme - 125 West Cherry
Lane:
Item 15: Continued Public Hearing from March 25, 2008: MI 08-001 Request
for a Miscellaneous application to modify the Development Agreement to
remove the requirement for cross_access between the properties located
at 125 W. Cherry Lane and 1645 W. 1St Street for Mittleider by Dr.
Dan Thieme - 125 West Cherry Lane:
Zaremba: All right. We move on. Thank you all. We will move on to Item 14, which is
a Public Hearing, CUP 07-022, for Meridian Eye Care Center. And this is a continued
Public Hearing from March 25th, 2008.
Bird: Mr. Vice-president, I believe 15 is also the same thing, isn't it?
Canning: Yes, sir, it is.
Bird: Can we open both of them, Anna?
Canning: Thank you for catching that.
Zaremba: Yes. Fifteen does seem to be related, so we will also open the continued
Public Hearing for MI 08-001, also continued from March 28 -- both those hearings, 14
and 15, are open.
Meridian City Council
April 1, 200$
Page 19 of 52
Canning: Thank you, Vice-president Zaremba. This is the Meridian Eye Care, which
also has the associated modification to the Mittleider Development Agreement. It's
located at 125 West Cherry Lane on the southeast corner of Cherry and West 2nd and
the application before you tonight is conditional use approval and a modification to the
development agreement. The subject property is about point three-fourths of an acre
and it is currently zoned Old Town. Conditional use approval is for the construction of a
new medical office in the OT zoning district, but does not meet all the design criteria of
the downtown Meridian design guidelines. The DA modification is concurrently
requested to remove the requirement for cross-access between the subject property
and the property directly to the east. They originally came in together and there was a
cross-access requirement and that address is 1645 West 1st Street. The DA that was -
- the DA also allows a shared access with the property to the east to Cherry Lane, just
so you know, the former DA. They are proposing one 3,600 square foot building. This
does comply with the Comprehensive Plan, which is for Old Town. This is their site
plan. So, you will see the building precludes any cross-access. So, really, the first
question before Council is are you in favor of not having cross-access to the property
and, then, the questions with regard to the design review come into play. We do have
elevations for you. So, again, these guidelines don't -- the guidelines are primarily
addressed for retail establishments, multi-use structures within the downtown core.
This is still the Old Town area, but these take on a suburban look to them. The
Planning and Zoning Commission heard ,this item on February 21st and have
recommended approval. James Gibson spoke in favor of the applicant_ No one spoke
in opposition or commented. We did receive written testimony from the Historic
Preservation Commission. They were not in favor of reducing the design standards in
the Old Town district for this property. Key issues of discussion by the Commission
were the no access to Cherry Lane once the property is redeveloped and as you see
they only have a sidewalk going out to Cheny Lane. And whether or not the Old Town
architectural design guidelines should be applicable to the subject property, because of
its location on the periphery of the Old Town district. It is right at the edge. Excuse me.
There is a frog in my throat. It won't go away. There were no changes to staffs -- key
changes to staffs initial recommendation. So, the outstanding issues before City
Council are really whether or not the cross-access is necessary if the DA is appropriate
and, then, if you do approve of the project that's before you tonight we also ask that
when you modify the DA that it also include a restriction to access to Cherry Lane and I
will show you that. This was the original DA that had the cross-access and they had a
shared access to Cherry Lane. Sa, the new site plan is just on this half. And they are,
obviously, not taking access to Cherry Lane. But just to make it clear, that the property
on the -- the east shouldn't take access to Cherry Lane, we ask that you modify the
development agreement to state that, since there is no longer a shared access. And
with that I will answer any questions you may have.
Zaremba: Council, any questions?
Barton: Mr. Vice-president?
Zaremba: Councilman Borton.
Meridian City Council
April 1, 2008
Page 20 of.52
Borton: Anna, did you have conversations with the Historic Preservation Commission --
and Isee the letter talking about it not -- they didn't think the -- I don't know what they
saw -- the design didn't reflect the historic esthetics the city's seeking in the Old Tawn
district. Was there anything specifically discussed in that regard?
Canning: I did not have conversations with them directly. I believe our only testimony
has been through that written letter.
Borton: Okay.
Zaremba: All right. Thank you. Next is the applicant. Mr. Gibson.
Gibson: Thank you, Council Members. My name is James Gibson. My address is P.O.
Box 219 in Eagle. I am the project architect representing this project. We feel that we
have worked pretty closely with the -- your staff and they have been very, very helpful in
giving us guidance and we think that quite a number of potential issues have been
settled and we appreciate their help. We also feel that we had a good experience with
Planning and Zoning. They seemed to understand the project well and there was a
positive discussion there and they did approve this unanimously without undue concern.
We have also had good communication with the neighbors and at the required
neighborhood meeting and we have had communication with a couple of the neighbors
who are very much in support of this application, I believe largely because it greatly
improves the appearance of the neighborhood there. The question about the
development agreement was well explained by your staff. The site is physically too
small to get a building on with the original requirement for the cross-access agreement.
That requirement I believe originally came up before it was realized the amount of the
additional property that ACRD was going to require along Cherry Lane. That made the
property in a north-south direction physically too small to get a building there and have
that same arrangement. It would just be a useless sliver of a building. That's really
what happened there. So, we earnestly request the approval of deleting that cross-
access requirement. Also, as staff has mentioned, we don't want any access onto
Cherry Lane, for the obvious reasons that it's inconvenient and somewhat dangerous
and there is ample appropriate access for this property and for the property to the east
to the other streets. So, we think that would be in the public interest and intend to do it
that way. The question of design compatibility, certainly the building proposed is not a
building that is historically what one would see in the Old Town area of Meridian or any
town for that matter. However, this -- although this property is zoned Old Town, it has
never been in the Old Town part of Meridian and it would be very difficult to completely
comply with the Old Town requirements, simply because of the size of the site, locating
the required parking on the site, it simply doesn't work. The appearance of the building,
frankly, would be, in my opinion, and I believe in the staffs and the neighbor's opinion, it
would be rather strange to construct a building architecturally in strict compliance with
the Old Town design guidelines. It would seem rather out of place in this location.
Therefore, we agree strongly with the staff's recommendation, the Planning and Zoning,
and the neighbors' opinion that it -- the building be approved as it's designed here. I
Meridian City Council
April 1, 2008
Page 21 of 52
don't think that we have any other issues. All of the proposed conditions are very
acceptable. We are not anticipating any difficulty at all. There is one question. One of
the neighbors has requested that a large existing tree at the southwest corner of this
property, which -- it's at the lower left. There is a large existing tree -- requested that
that tree be removed, because he perceives it as troublesome to his property. Our
intent, of course, was to preserve as many trees as possible on the site and save this
rather large tree, partly because we think that that's the intent of the city ordinance to
save the big trees that are there that are in reasonably good condition. We have had a
couple of meetings with Mr. Huff regarding this tree and he's indicated that the -- he
believes the tree is in salvageable condition and there would be a fairly significant
mitigation fee associated with removing the tree. With respect and consideration to the
neighbors' comment on desiring to remove the tree, our position has to be we don't --
we don't care, we are willing to remove the tree, but we sure don't want to remove it if
we have to pay a mitigation fee. So, that question is, then, in your hands. This
applicant is willing to remove the tree in order to meet the -- to satisfy the neighbor, but
not desiring to remove the tree in order to have to pay for removing the tree, if that is
understandable. Sa, those are the only issues that we perceive before you. Thank you.
Zaremba: Thank you. I appreciate that you have spoken to the neighbors about this.
My memory of the 2004 discussion of this at the time I was on the Planning and Zoning
Commission, the neighbors actually asked that the driveway be along the south
property line, so that they were buffered from this and if you have since talked to them
and had gotten them to buy into this change design -- and I understand at that time we
didn't know that ACRD was going to take more for Cherry Lane, but if you have talked to
the neighbors, that's a good thing and I appreciate that. Are you able to speak for the
other half of the property that's to the east of this and confirm that the restriction that no
access to Cherry Lane is acceptable on this whole set of properties?
Gibson: I can only -- shall we say personally and unofficially speak to that, because I
am not connected with that property. I'm the architect only for this property, which is
before you. Yes, we have had communication there and there has been no indication of
a concern and my understanding of intent for the development of that eastern property
is that there would be no crass-access agreement required and the access would be to
the other street not to Cherry Lane. So, I see no problem, no indication of a problem
there. However, I emphasize that I am not the architect for that project and can't speak
officially to that. That's only vur observation.
Zaremba: Okay. Thank you.
Gibson: Thank you.
Zaremba: Either Director Canning or Mr. Nary, the development agreement covers all
of the properties; is that right?
Canning: Yes, sir. And I know that Mr. Hood has been in touch with the neighbor to the
east and they have not submitted any testimony in opposition.
Meridian City Council
April 1, 2008
Page 22 of 52
Zaremba: Okay. Council, any other questions?
Bird: I have none. Is there any other testimony?
Canning: Vice-president Zaremba, before you take additional testimony, just so I might
comment on the tree issue. If the city arborist determines that the tree is unsalvageable,
which I would prefer that the city arborist be able to make that call, then, there is no
mitigation required. If it's not a healthy tree we don't require mitigation. If it is a healthy
tree, then, we would require mitigation.
Zaremba: I took from the applicant's testimony that Mr. Huff has already looked at it
and that it is healthy enough that it should stay. Is that accurate? He's nodding his
head yes.
Canning: I was thinking Huff was the property owner to the south. Sorry, sir. I
completely missed that one.
Zaremba: We could give the property owner to the south the opportunity to pay the
mitigation fee, I suppose, but -- I'm not sure that if it's healthy we need to put that on this
applicant. That's a personal opinion.
Canning: The required mitigation is additional trees on the site, is generally what it is.
And I suspect they have difficulty getting enough caliper inches on this one site. It's -- it
is extensive. We have seen other people donate trees to the parks department as an
appropriate mitigation at times, but, generally, we do like to see the big ones saved.
Zaremba: One person's opinion, with all due respect to the neighbor, is that I would
save this tree. I think that's the intent of the ordinance is to save mature trees where
ever we can. All right. If no other comment at this point, this is a Public Hearing. No
one else was signed up, but if we could have other testimony now is the time.
Thomason: Mr. Vice-chairman, Members of the Council. I'm Frank Thomason far the
record. I'm a member of the Historic Preservation Commission. And far the record the
commission is also in favor of saving trees as per the ordinance. Mr. Gibson, I believe,
remarked that this site has never been in Old Town or a part of Old Town. The voting
by the commission to recommend that the design standards for Old Town be adhered to
in this application is based upon our belief that relaxation of the design standards would
weaken the definition and parameters of the Old Town zoning district. That, in fact, the
periphery or the edge actually defines the center. I am not an architect, but the two
members of the commission, including the chairman, are and that was our concern and
that we are not necessarily looking for strict compliance with Old Town design
standards, but perhaps some concession in the design of the building to make it more
compatible, at least in appearance, with an entryway site into Old Town, if you will.
And I would stand for any questions if you have any.
Meridian City Council
April 1, 2008
Page 23 of 52
Zaremba: Council?
Borton: Mr. Vice-president?
Zaremba: Councilman Borton.
Borton: 1=rank, has your commission had a chance to sit down with the applicant and
have that exact discussion?
Thomason: No. And that's probably a very goad idea, although it's maybe a little late
at this paint, but we simply wanted to have some kind of input into the process and have
that recognized, but our commission was -- was a unanimous vote and we were
interested in having the Council be aware of our position. And, again, we weren't
necessarily looking for very strict compliance with Old Town design standards, just
something that would indicate mare of a conformity or compatibility with Old Tawn,
especially since we feel that the entryways are just as important in defining Old Town as
the center itself. Without one you really can't have the other.
Zaremba: Off the top of your head are there cosmetic changes that could be made that
would be helpful?
Thomason: There was some discussion about that at our meeting and our two
architects, who are members, including our chairman Walter Lindgren, would certainly
be happy to do that, if the applicant were amenable to that. We are not looking for an
expensive modification to the application, just something that would preserve the -- the
concept of Old Town on the periphery, because that's really where the definition starts.
Zaremba: Councilman Bird?
Bird: No. I just -- was it in materials, Frank? Do you think material or -- I mean, really,
you can't change the design of the building to make it look Qld Town and I -- and I
agree, I don't care whether -- if it's Old Town, whether it's on the edge or whether it's in
the middle, it's still Old Town and should adhere to the standards.
Thomason: Right.
Bird: Just because it's on the edge don't give it something that we don't allow downtown
or in the middle, so -- but what kind of a -- what kind of a change are you guys looking
at with this? I mean I think this is a very nice designed building. Is it material or is it the
design or what --
Thomason: Councilman Bird, our discussion was very general and as I recall it simply
had to do with making some kind of concession or indicating same kind of feature and
since Meridian does not have what you call an historic district, it would be more in the
nature of a cosmetic appearance of the -- of the building itself where something --
maybe same kind of appurtenance to the roof, something -- and the Commission would
Meridian City Council
April 1, 2008
Page 24 of 52
be very interested in discussing that with the applicant. It might be something as simply
as a -- more of a compatibility in design with the new City Hall -- and we didn't really get
into that much detail in our discussion, we just noted that the location of this -- of this
site is a part of Old Town in the since that it's the periphery -- we call it an entryway and
it's the same concept as you have for the whale city itself. But we didn't get into any
specifics. And we did agree it was a very nice design. And I have known Mr. Gibson
for many, many years and he does very quality work.
Bird: And he's been down this road many times over --
Thomason: Many times.
Bird: -- and he knows, so --
Thomason: We just want to get our position on the record and have the Council be
aware of that and, arguably, the Commission should have taken a more proactive role in
contacting the applicant, but that's a -- doesn't happen very often in these kinds of
things. Perhaps not as often as it should.
Bird: I appreciate the work you guys do, Frank.
Thomason: Thank you. Any other questions?
Zaremba: Thank you.
Thomason: Thank you.
Zaremba: Is there any other public testimony? Okay. We have the opportunity, then,
for the applicant to have the final word. And, actually, I would start that off with a
question. Would you be willing to have us mandate, I guess, that you get together with
the historic commission and perhaps consider some cosmetic changes?
Gibson: Well, of course, we would, because we want to do something that is perceived
as appropriate and compatible, so, yes, we would welcome that opportunity. Frankly,
we are hoping that we don't have to go back and start from square one with the project
and it would have been a lot easier if we had done this before getting to the very last
square, so to speak. However, yes, we are very willing to do that and see specifically
what -- what we might do to make this more compatible. If that be the desire of the
Council, if that could be created as a condition, rather than delaying the project several
months or whatever it might take, we would greatly appreciate that.
Zaremba: That was my thinking.
Bird: I agree.
Zaremba: I see Councilman Bird shaking his head yes.
Meridian City Council
April 1, 2008
Page 25 of 52
Gibson: It would see appropriate. Thank you.
Zaremba: Any other final concluding remarks that you care to make?
Gibson: No. I think the discussion has been compatible with what we have intended to
do here. Don't have any other concern.
Zaremba: Thank you. Director Canning.
Canning: Every once in awhile when you do something you ask me to tell you never to
let .you do that again, so I just have to say that the only concern with making it a
requirement that they work with the Historic Preservation Council is that the staff is
never quite sure if they have -- they have satisfied Council's conditions with regard to
that. It often puts us in a very unfavorable position between two parties that we can't
resolve personally. So, we have to bring it back up to you. A lot of the design
standards that this project doesn't meet are related to the site design and entrances,
which I think are probably non-negotiable and the other big one that it doesn't meet is
the percent of glazing on the facades and this is an ophthalmologist's office, so you
can't have that kind of -- that many lights -- that many windows in the office and have it
still function. So, there are things like that, although I'm not trying to discourage you
from having the two groups work together, I'm just trying to not have me in the middle of
them, so -- I'm not sure how you want to --
Zaremba: Would it help solve the problem to say that the three groups, including staff,
need to be consulting together?
Bird: No.
Zaremba: That doesn't help?
Canning: No.
Zaremba: Okay.
Canning: This is always a difficult question and you can -- really, you can either -- what
works best is to either make it a condition and have them bring it back to you or to not
make it a condition and let the applicant know that you expect them to do that, but to not
make it a condition of approval.
Bird: Mr. Vice-president?
Zaremba: Thank you. Councilman Bird.
Bird: That's what -- I would agree with what Anna said there, let's not make It a -- make
it an absolute condition, but make it a very strong recommendation and I know Mr.
Meridian City Council
April 1, 2008
Page 26 of 52
Gibson's work, I will assure you that he will get with them and the occupancy of the
building does dictate a lot what they can do and what they can't and they don't have a
real large site to play with, so it's gat to be -- we have got to be -- and I think the Historic
Preservation Council understands that also, but we can make a very strong
recommendation that he gets with them and see if there is something they can do, but
I'm like Anna, I don't want to see it drug through and have to come back to us or
anything else. And I don't want to put the -- put it on the staff to have to referee
something. So, I would just say instead of a condition, make it a recommendation.
That would be my -- is that --
Canning: Yes. And Vice-president Zaremba, Members of the Council -- and to allow
staff some flexibility to approve an alternative design to the structure if they come to an
agreement with regard to that. That would be helpful.
Zaremba:. That sounds like a good way to put it. Thank you for supplying the wording.
Bird: Joe's taking this all down for a motion, aren't you?
Boston: Right.
Zaremba: Gentlemen, first off, the Public Hearing is still open. Is there a motion or any
further discussion? Councilman Borton?
Borton: No.
Zaremba: Okay.
Borton: Mr. Vice-president?
Zaremba: Councilman Borton.
Borton: I would move that we close the public hearings on Items 14, CUP 07-022 and,
15, M 108-001.
Bird: Second.
Canning: We have a motion and a second to close the public hearings. All in favor say
aye. Any opposed? Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Barton: Mr. Vice-president?
Zaremba: Councilman Borton.
Meridian City Council
April 1, 2008
Page 27 of 52
Borton: I appreciate Mr. Gibson's efforts to try and get everybody involved and I agree
with Councilman Bird that the recommendation in this particular case is the way to go to
have that dialogue with the Historic Preservation Commission. In future instances I'd
love to see that dialogue required. You know, staff giving the applicants real heads up
that we are going to be asking about that and I agree with all parties that the Old Town
standards on the fringe are important as on the center and I think the applicant's tried to
blend -- blend that need and concern. 50, I'm supportive of the miscellaneous
application and the CUP, inclusive of the staff and the applicant's comments, inclusive
of keeping the tree, dealing with it through mitigation at the staff level as they see fit and
allowing staff the opportunity to address any of the architectural alterations that they
think suffices the meeting that's going to take place with the applicant and the Historic
Preservation Commission.
Bird: I second it.
Zaremba: And are you --
Borton: That was a motion.
Bird: That was a motion. I --
Borton: I was getting there.
Zaremba: I know you refierenced staff comments, but you're specifically including the
eliminating any access to Cherry Lane?
Borton: Correct.
Zaremba: All right. We have a motion and a second. And we will ask for roll call.
Gorton: Discussion real quick.
Zaremba: I'm sorry. Discussion from Director Canning.
Canning: I'm sorry, sirs. Was that a motion on just the Meridian Eye Care? Because
the development agreement is the one where you should mention the no access to
Cherry Lane.
Bird: So, the next one is where we do that. Yeah.
Borton: Okay. Thanks, Anna.
Zaremba: We are only doing the first one. This is Item 14. And a roll call vote, please.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, absent; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
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April 1, 2008
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Zaremba: Motion carries. All in favor.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Burton: Mr. Vice-president?
Zaremba: Go ahead.
Gorton: Item 15, the Public Hearing, is already closed. I would move that we approve
MI 08-001, the DA modification to remove the cross-access requirement between the
properties and the access to Gherry Lane.
Bird: Second.
Zaremba: Okay. For clarification, we intend that the access from bath properties, this
one and the one to the east, be eliminated to Cherry Lane.
Bird: Yes.
Burton: Correct.
Zaremba: Okay.
Bird: No access to Cherry Lane period.
Zaremba: Yeah. Thank you. Then we have a motion and a second and roll call vote,
please.
Rall-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, absent; Zaremba, yea; Burton, yea.
Zaremba: Thafi motion carries. Thank you.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 16: Public Hearing: TE 08-002 Request for Approval of an 18-month Time
Extension to receive the City Engineer's signature on the Final Plat for
Kin sbrid a Subdivision No. 2 by Randal Clarnd -Kingsbridge Drive
and South Eagle Road:
Zaremba: Next we have a new Public Hearing and this is TE 08-002 for Kingsbridge
Subdivision No. 2 and we will begin with the staff report.
Canning: Vice-president Zaremba, Members of the Council. This is Kingsbridge
Subdivision No. 2 final -- or time extension request for the final plat and they are
requesting an 18 month time extension to obtain the city engineer's signature on
Kingsbridge Subdivision No. 2. That plat consists of 50 single family residences and 13
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April 1, 2008
Page 29 of 52
common lots an 23.97 acres in an R-2 zoning. The preliminary plat was approved by
City Council on May 3rd. The administrative time extension granted an March 28th,
2007, expired an March 14th, which initiated the request for this time extension. The
applicant states the primary reason for the time extension is because of the lack of
financing and delay in the construction and sale of lots in Kingsbridge Subdivision No.
1. Staff believes there are no additional conditions that should be added to those
approved by the City Council with the final plat for the subdivision. Previous plat
conditions should be complied with as part of the subject approval. So, staff believes
it's -- it's good to ga.
Zaremba: Okay. Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none.
Zaremba: All right. And may we have the applicant, please.
Bates: I'm Gordan Bates. Working address is 661 South Rivershore Lane, Suite 120,
Eagle, Idaho. We are in agreement with the staff report and would stand for any
questions the Council may have.
Zaremba: Thank you. Council?
Bird: I have none.
Borton: No.
Zaremba: All right. Thank you.
Bates: Thank you, sir.
Zaremba: He was the only one signed up, but this is a Public Hearing. Is there
anybody else who would care to comment on this application? Seeing nobody moving,
Council, any discussion?
Bird: I have none.
Borton: No.
Zaremba: Okay.
Bird: Mr. Vice-president?
Zaremba: Councilman Bird.
Bird: Hearing no comments, I would move that we close TE 08-002, Public Hearing.
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April 1, 2008
Page 30 of 52
Borton: Second.
Zaremba: We have a motion. Is there a second?
Borton: Second.
Canning: We have a motion and a second. All in favor say aye. Any opposed?
Motion carries. The Public Hearing is closed.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Bird: Mr. Vice-president?
Zaremba: Councilman Bird.
Bird: I move we approve TE 008-002, the request for an 18 month time extension for
Kingsbridge Subdivision No. 2.
Borton: Second.
Zaremba: We have a motion and a second. May we have a roll call vote, please?
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, absent; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
Zaremba: Motion carries. Thank you again.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 17: Public Hearing: AZ 07-002 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 3
acres from RUT to an R-15 (Medium High Density Residential) zone for
Villas ~ Lochsa Falls by D.T. Campbell Investments - 5555 North
Linder Road:
Item 18 Public Hearing: PP 08-OOZ Request for a Preliminary Plat approval with
1 residential building lot and 1 common lot in a proposed R-15 zone for
Villas ,~ Lochsa Falls by D.T. Campbell Investments - 5555 North
Linder Road:
Item 19: Public Hearing: CUP 08-003 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for
21 multi-family dwelling units in a proposed R-15 zone on approximately 3
acres for Villas_ Lcd Lochsa Falls by D.T. Campbell Investments - 5555
North Linder Road:
Zaremba: All right. We will open -- the next Public Hearing is going to include 17, 18
and 19 for the Villas @Lochsa Falls. That is opening AZ 07-002, PP 08-002, and CUP
08-003. And we will begin with the staff report.
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Barton: Mr. Vice-president?
Zaremba: Councilman Borton.
Borton: We are missing staff.
Zaremba: Oh.
Borton: Mr. Johnson is --
Zaremba: We absolutely are.
Johnson: Mrs. Canning had stepped away just --
Zaremba: Called away unexpectedly.
Johnson: Yeah. She had to step out far just a minute. She should be back shortly.
Zaremba: Okay.
Canning: Did you miss me?
Zaremba: We await with bated breath.
Canning: Thank you. Sorry, Council. The next Public Hearing is for the Villas @
Lochsa Falls and it is located at 5555 North Linder Road. The applications before you
tonight are annexation, preliminary plat, Conditional Use Permit, private street, and
alternative compliance. Because there are so many applications I'm going to go
through them one by one. The annexation is a request to annex and zone three acres
to R-15. The Planning and Zoning recommended a DA provision that restrict the
development of this property to a maximum of 21 units and to comply with the
conceptual site plan and elevations submitted with the conditional use approval, which
we will get to in just a moment. The preliminary plat is to plat one residential lot and
one common lot. The Conditional Use Permit is to construct amulti-family development
consisting of 21 condominium units and an exercise cabana. The units range in size
from 1,500 to 1,750 square feet. The proposed dwelling types include five individual
detached buildings and eight dual unit buildings, for a total of 13 buildings on site,
excluding the cabana. They are different floor plans, but all units will have three
bedrooms and two and a half baths. The private street application is -- there are three
private streets within the proposed development and the alternative compliance is from
two UDC standards. One is to allow for an alternative design to the 20-by-20 parking
pad requirement and the second alternative design -- or request for alternative
compliance is for alternative design for the five foot landscape strip adjacent to
pathways. Regarding the first one, the proposed units will feature two car -- two car
attached garages located at the rear of the home units, except for the four detached
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units internal to the development. And I'll let the applicant point those kinds of things
out for you. The applicant is proposing tandem parking, instead of the 20-by-20
parking pad and, then, they will provide ten guest parking stalls far the four internal units
that do not have any parking pads in front of their garages. The gross residential
density is seven dwelling units per acre. The outstanding -- I'm sorry. We do have
some elevations far you. The Planning Commission heard this item on March 6, 2008,
and they have recommended approval. Evelyn Grime spoke in favor of the applicant
and Scott Stanfield as well. No one spoke in opposition or commented or provided
written testimony. Key issues of the discussion by the Commission were the
requirement for additional common open .space along the northern boundary. And the
key -- the key Commission changes to staffs initial recommendation -- there were three
of them. One, the applicant updated the site plan to reflect the Planning and Zoning
Commission recommendation to increase the common open space on site. And that's
what you see before you now. There was a modification to condition 1.1.2, which were
the DA provisions to construct a maximum of 21 units. And, then, a modification to
1.4.1 to allow a maximum of 21 units and increase the amount of open space from ten
feet to 20 feet, measured from the apron of the pool to the west and also include a
barbecue pit area. So, that's with regard to the open spaces. And, again, I'll let the
applicant describe those -- where those changes occur. The outstanding issue for City
Council -- I think there is same question as to whether there is an appropriate amount of
open space on the property for the site. It strictly meets the definition of the multi-family,
but a lot of the open space is pretty narrow. Doesn't provide large -- large amounts of
space. And with that I'll answer any questions Council may have.
Bird: I have none.
Zaremba: Council? Could you go back to the first slide you showed, which was an
area locater. Maybe it was the one right after that. Yes. There. No.
Canning: That one?
Zaremba: That one. Are we only talking about the upper half of the white area that
what -- my question is there appears to be a stub street. Does that run into the center
of this property or the south border of this property?
Canning: It's appears to be split half and half. And what they are proposing to do --
think you can see it a little better on the plat. They are taking their half stub and putting
a fire department turnaround at that location and, then, should the other parcel ever
come in, there is an opportunity for them to take advantage of private streets as well.
The public street will end up ending there, unless they come back and are able to
acquire right of way from these folks.
Zaremba: Okay. I'm understanding the location. Would you go back to the slide again,
please? There. All right. So, I see no need for that street to -- for that stub street to go
through to Linder, so --okay. I understand what we are doing.
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April 1, 2008
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Canning: It's a similarly sized parcel. It won't ever have all that many units on it that
they couldn't be served by a private street if they are multi-family units or if it's done as a
multi-family development.
Zaremba: Thank you. In that case, we are ready for the applicant, please.
Grime: Good evening, Members of Council. My name is Evelyn Grime and my
company is Place Design and Planning and I'm the architect and planner for this project.
My client is Campbell Investments. And to start with the site plan that Anna has put up,
this was our original site plan, so this is before our open space revisions. Just kind of
dive right in, answer some of the questions that came up during Anna's presentation
and, then, I can kind of show you the key points. I'd like to show you an animation that
we have that I think illustrates the neighborhood really well and, then, come back and
answer questions. So, the Planning and Zoning Commission had a lot of questions and
we talked in depth about the edge conditions and the only question that still came up
was this idea of open space and the gathering outdoor open space for the community
versus private backyards, front yards, and private living spaces was that public
gathering space and so this plan shows an original area with a fitness pool, a cabana,
and some gathering space. This is about a 22 foot by 15 foot trellis porch or a patio
area and there is another slide that's black and white revised site plan that illustrates our
immediate responses to Planning and Zoning -- the first one, Anna. Back, please.
There.
Canning: That one?
Grime: Uh-huh. This was our immediate response to staff and the Planning and Zoning
Commission, showing that we could, in fact, redesign this single family detached home
at Lot 3 to provide 20 feet of open grassy space here, keep our fitness pool, still have a
16 and a half foot by about 20 foot trellis to patio area, a 240 square foot exercise
cabana and include a nice barbecue and maybe a fire pit here. So, this becomes a
multi-function gathering space. It was never intended to be a municipal pool, but, you
know, this is still going to handle about 20 people if you have got all the kids in. So,
this was the primary change between what we presented originally to Planning and
Zoning Commission and what we are showing you tonight. The -- the other question
from Councilmember Zaremba about the front entrance. Anna, there is I think in the
staff report a site plan -- enlarged plan that shows the knuckle and how it works and on
some of the files that I brought it's a file called the expanded knuckle and it shows traffic
flow and directional traffic flaw, the plan that we put together to address Mr. Overton's
concerns, as well as Mr. Silva's concerns from fire and police. So, I think at some point
it would be really nice to be able to look at that. When we talk about our open space,
while Anna's hopefully searching and finding, we talk about our open space. The open
space requirement is determined by staff for the overall project is 7,000 square feet of
open space. That isn't to say that it has to happen in one location. So, to give you our
current math for this parcel of open space here, that parcel is 3,145 square feet in one
location. And, then, if we go back to the colored site plan, please, Anna. When I was
designing this, one of the code allowances that you have is that you can include area of
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April 1, 2p08
Page 34 of 52
a landscape buffer as part of outdoor open space if you have a four foot separate --
vertical separation. So, the idea -- a design idea behind this is to create this walking
path for the neighborhood that traveled like this and other drawings that you have
already seen flash a little bit, but we will look at them in mare detail, is to use the berm
and a retaining wall to create a protected walking path along here, as well as have the
sidewalk along Linder. And, then, we have two points of connection where this
neighborhood can interact and not be completely closed with the neighborhood, but,
then, also, again, have a protected walking path, which is a recreational amenity just for
the neighborhood. So, if you take this area, this area, this walking path as it comes
here, those three total 7,900 square feet. The other part -- hello, Madam Mayor. The
other part that we have is private backyards. So, this section shared by four homes is
fenced into four quadrants. The average backyard size is between 400 and 650 square
feet. That's private backyard space over and above private courtyards and front
parches. That's not -- that private backyard open space is something we can count
specifically towards one number. However, I would like to point out that if we include
the backyard open spaces that number is at 7,000 square feet. If we take the 7,000
square feet of the backyard private open spaces and we combine it with what I have
presented as common outdoor open spaces, just in the minimum requirement, we have
13,000 square feet of open space. If we were aver five acres we would have to provide
ten percent private out -- or common outdoor open space. I'm just trying to say we
balance the intent -- it's -- 13,000 is over ten percent of three acres. So, we are just
achieving it in different ways, using different tools, because the whole premise of this
development is to create a single family housing neighborhood with the few different
design tools that you have in your Planning and Zoning code. Did you have any luck
finding that, Anna? No, it's -- I think it's specifically called knuckle. So, maybe --
Zaremba: While we are finding that, may I comment for the record that Mayor de
Weerd has joined us and I will turn the meeting over to her.
Grime: Hi.
De Weerd: Hi.
Grime: Welcome.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Grime: So, our -- our overall density here is seven units per acre. Across Linder to the
east is our new high school. To the west we have three homes, which are part of
Lochsa Falls and to the north we have three homes. In working with staff over the last
year, we have worked to create a neighborhood that has -- we couldn't provide alley
with rear loaded garage. The site wasn't conducive to that. But we tried very hard to
make all the garages recessed and not the focal point, bringing the building mass and
the front porches to each of the private streets to create this neighborhood where front
door faces front doors and the architectural look of each home -- each one of these
twins, as I call them, because I have twins, I can say that, is -- reads like a single family
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Aprll 1, 2008
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house. And the idea also is you have eight twins, each one of these has a different
architectural elevation. And, then, you have five single family detached homes, again,
with individual architecture. So, you're next door to single family housing with distinctive
architecture. You're coming into higher density, but you're repeating the language and
the character of the surrounding neighborhood, plus these three homes meet with three
homes and these three homes on this side at least meet with three home building
structures. This density is more intense, but the way this has been designed is to insure
privacy for the existing neighbors and privacy for these neighbors, because privacy is a
two way street. So, the dark green in the site plan represents the private outdoor open
spaces. The light green is public common or front yards and, then, the way that the
homes are shadowed, this darker color indicates where the two story section is and the
lighter color indicates the one story. Sa, even along the southern boundary we have
one story and, then, between the second story and the property line on both the north
and south borders, there is 30 feet. Also, if we look at the rear elevations -- I think we
can slip to here. The way the rear one story comes up, the roof slopes back dawn here
to meet the second story. 50, we have a full egress window on this back wall, but
you're using the roof to provide privacy for those bedrooms and also privacy for the
neighboring yards. So, it's through those types of design tools that we try to incorporate
a higher density, but to make it compatible with the existing neighborhood and to make
it really neighbor friendly. So, again, this is an example of different elevations that can
be seen. It's conceivable, I think, to come up with four more, five more, and have all of
them be very distinctive. Do you want to do the animation perhaps ar -- oh, here we go.
There is music that goes with this, but I won't sing for you and I understand that you
can't hear the music, so this is a -- just under two minutes. And we are starting looking
at our directional travel entrance. This is like a roundabout, so this car coming out can
only go to the opposite side. You drive around a tree island to come in. This is public
right of way. At this point we are crossing onto a private street. This is single family
detached. This is single family detached. This is a twin. And this is the pergola onto
Linder for the southern side. Here is a twin and here is a twin. When you're looking at
one of these you can only see one front door. So, now we are on Linder Raad. This is
the sidewalk along Linder. Here is the southern pergola entry. Along the backside of
the rock wall is the interior walking path for the neighborhood. This is the walking path
along Linder. This is a plaza area with a fountain on the other side. It's a place to stop
and talk. Play in the water if you have kids. This is the second pergola entry on the
north side. Again, this is a twin. And we are approaching -- here is our example of our
driveway. Garage is in the back. Here is our pool and cabana area. Barbecues in
the back here. I think this will probably restart itself. Villas @ Lochsa Falls. Anna, if
you have that menu up, I would really like to show that knuckle. I think there is some
questions about that. This one. The enlarged travel plan knuckle right here. Please.
Okay. So, what we have drawn here is the Cedar Grove coming in. These are the
existing driveways, as best I could do with the aerial photograph. This is Moose Creek.
believe there is a stop sign here. And so there are -- there is 30 feet of lineal frontage
for the right of way into this property. This property remains un-annexed and as it is
currently in use for single family residence. After talking with John Overton, police, and
Mr. Silva, fire, talked about adding striping just to indicate to the driver that this is
narrowing down. There is a fence here. But the idea is you would drive in, single lane
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April 1, 2008
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direction, drive around. If you were to come out or drive through if you were to go in.
This is some of the guest parking for the interior homes that don't have the guest
parking tandem style like we have proposed. And, then, again coming out, if you're
here you have got the ability to see all the way through from a vision triangle. So, the
vision triangles, turning radiuses, traveling slow, coming in and out, all of these things
were taken into account with design and we have tried to address those things as well.
So, again, our context was we have a school. We have neighborhood commercial
dawn the street. We have L-O up the street. We are next to Linder. We can't have
access from Linder. I believe that's a good thing. We are trying to be a good neighbor
to Lochsa Falls, but be distinctive, but carry the building and quality tradition that that
neighborhood has already established and try to create rear loaded garages without
being able to rear load and also create several amenities for neighbors living here.
Again, we have our -- our walking path which we have talked about. We have a plaza
here with a fountain. We have our exercise and gathering area here and a clear
distinction between public and private. Front doors facing front doors. Backyards faces
-- each home again has a private courtyard far that intermediate outdoor-indoor space.
Strong front porches for people to get to know each other. Be happy to stand for
questions.
De Weerd: Council, questions?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Is there any chance that we could get a detached meandering sidewalk on the
Linder Raad side, like is up and down the road there? Do you have enough room to do
that?
Grime: What I'm showing here is -- this is a detached walk and Iwould -- Scott
Stanfield, our civil engineer, is here as well and I believe what we have drawn is what is
currently being built, but I'm not sure. Can you address that question or -- what I know
is that Linder Road is currently under construction by ACHD for improvement. So, could
you answer that question that I --
De Weerd: We will ask Jay to come up when you're done.
Bird: When you're done.
Grime: Okay. That will work. That would be the best way. Most concise way to da
that. There is -- in my opinion, there is roam to meander that with the landscaping that
we are proposing and not push into or alter the design solution here with this idea of a
berm and in your staff report and also with Anna's files, I do have cross-sections of what
that berm looks like when you're walking down, if you want to understand those special
relationships, so --
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April 1, 20D8
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De Weerd: Any other questions?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: First, I'd like to comment that the fly through graphics, really good -- give a
good concept of scale and appearance and depicting a few people in it, you know.
Grime: They even moved. Did you see that?
Zaremba: Yeah. I saw that. That's not only fascinating, but very helpful. I think that's
a neat use of technology. Two -- well, actually one question and, then, a suggestion.
I'll make the suggestion first. You may find at some time that you might want a small
attractive sign there that says private street, no outlet, or something like that at that
point, so that you don't get a lot of people driving in and getting stuck.
Grime: Trying to get to Linder.
Zaremba: And, then, the question is has this distance been measured to make sure it
satisfies the cul-de-sac length for fire department and whatever the length is that they
don't want to go any further than?
Grime: Cauncilmember Zaremba, Madam Mayor, absolutely.
Zaremba: Okay.
Grime: We wouldn't have gotten near this far without going through all those technical
hoops. Yeah.
Zaremba: I figured it had been done.
Grime: Yeah. We have got it dialed in as closely as we know how.
Zaremba: Thank you.
De Weerd: So, you pass the muster on fire trucks. Did you also pass the muster on
garbage trucks?
Grime: According to the staff report, yes, but I haven't received any specific comments
telling me no. So, we do meet the inside and outside turning radiuses for fire trucks and
vehicles. If the garbage truck requires more than a 48 or less than a 2$, I'm not aware
of it. I believe we do unless they have got standards that I'm unaware of.
De Weerd: And you will be using individual toters or totes?
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April 1, 2008
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Grime: Uh-huh. It would be a curb side pickup.
De Weerd: So, if I have a party there or a picnic or a barbecue, where are my friends
going to park? Now, I saw you had two different areas with six parking spots each.
have more than that -- I have more friends than that. Where are they going to park?
Well, I pretend I have more friends. Okay. Let's just make believe I have more friends
than that.
Grime: Okay. I'll come.
De Weerd: Okay.
Grime: So, the idea is there is a parking island here and there is a parking island here
for guests. If I live in this home, then, I -- and I park in -- and also with the CC&Rs for
the neighborhood, which there would be as part of the condominium plat, as well as the
development agreement, I have my two cars parked here. I have parking -- if you
measure this there is actually parking for three, but the idea that there is parking two
tandem here, I get the teenagers that park sideways -- we are really looking at this.
And, then, friends come over and they -- and they park here or here. This being guest
parking specifically for events or for people visiting, it is not for overnight. That is where
you park. The street parking is restricted based on ACRD requirements regardless of
the private street factor. These are 24 feet, plus the four foot walkway. You know,
you're too narrow to park on either side of this street. So, parking does occur either
here at the home or here in these -- these guest pockets. This is no parking. And the
private streets are no parking. In the event that you're going to have a very large party,
I think maybe the CC&Rs could address that you need to let your neighbors know, so
you don't have more than one large party at a time.
De Weerd: Well, certainly everyone there will have to schedule their parties with each
other, because there won't be very much parking from the looks of it.
Grime: Yeah. I live in an old single family neighborhood with a lot of in-fill and most of
the parking we get is far garage sales on Saturdays. We just -- I think it depends
probably on your -- you know, who is living there, how often are you going to have a
large gathering. I think you could coordinate it with your neighbors. I think we exceed
what the code requests for guest parking. It's not a community event center, I agree.
De Weerd: Any other questions, Council?
Bird: I have none, Mayor.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Jay?
Walker: Madam Mayor and Council, Jay Walker, Brighton Corporation, 12601 West
Explorer Drive, Suite 200, Boise, Idaho.
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April 1, 2008
Page 39 of 52
De Weerd: Thank you.
Walker: To address where we are on that roadway improvement project -- and Christie
Richardson from ACHD is here and she also is the project manager on this project and
has been a great help. We are improving that area and providing quite a nice face lift
to the whole region, including two signals on either end of this. If I understand, 555
North Linder Road -- is that 5555 North? So, that's right across from the Rocky
Mountain High School and Katherine -- Ms. Katherine Nelson's property. Is that where
we are discussing? In our agreement with them ACRD committed to a seven foot
attached sidewalk to have the least amount of impact to her property as possible. We
have -- we have done some preliminary preparation work bringing in three-quarter -- it is
prepped in rough stage right now. We will be -- well, we are kind of waiting for the
weather to warm up just a bit more, so we don't have to use blankets and increase cast
there. So, I perceive pouring that sidewalk here in the next week. If there is going to
be a change it needs to happen very quickly if you want it detached. But currently on
Ms. Nelson's property at her request and the negotiation between ACHD asking her that
is on that out parcel an attached sidewalk, seven foot, so -- but we can certainly make a
change if the city requested that. Not too late.
Bird: I just think it looks nice, Madam Mayor, but --
Walker: It's detached on either side.
Bird: If it's detached and if that's what the neighbor wants, I mean I don't have a
problem with it. I just like the detached where you wander, you know, and I think it's
safer, too. Even though there is a bike lane across there, how many -- between it and
the cars -- you go back to that last one, it's right at the bike lanes there and, then, you're
out in the traffic. Right there. And, then, you're at the sidewalk, seven foot sidewalk.
Walker: And we are attached directly to the north of Ms. Nelson's property and -- did I
say attached? I meant detached. We are detached directly to the north and attached
on the Lukehart property.
Bird: I knew you were detached north.
Walker: Directly south.
Bird: I know you're detached north of it. That's all I was asking and it's -- it's -- it's not a
decision maker forme, so --
Walker: Okay.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. This is a Public Hearing. Is there anyone who would
like to provide testimony on this application? Okay.
Stanfield: Real quick. Scott Stanfield with --
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April 1, 2008
Page 40 of 52
De Weerd: I'm sorry, Scott, can you say that --
Stanfield: In the mike?
De Weerd: -- in the mike, please. Not on the way up.
Stanfield: Scott Stanfield of Mason Stanfield Engineering, 314 Badiola in Caldwell,
project engineer. Really nothing to add. I'm must here if you have any engineering
questions. You talked to Jay about the detached versus attached walk. There are no
unresolved engineering issues that come to my mind and 1 will add we have got several
hundred parking places across the street, far what it's worth with the school.
De Weerd: So, you want them to jaywalk?
Stanfield: No. We have a signals north and south of us.
De Weerd: Jay, that was no pun intended.
Stanfield: So, with that I'll stand for any questions on behalf of the applicant.
Bird: We don't want jaywalkers out there, uh?
Stanfield: We do have signals north and south of us.
De Weerd: Council, any questions for Scott?
Borton: No. Thanks, Scott.
Stanfield: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. If you will, please, state your name and address for the record.
Rennison: Madam Mayor and Council Members, John Rennison, 430 East State
Street, Suite 14, in Eagle. Just -- so, I'm here representing the Renny Lukehart to the
south and we just had a -- some questions, I think, on the -- about the circulation.
Canning: The --
Rennison: Yeah. The knuckle. Knuckle slide there. I guess one of the questions we
have is we are just -- actually, probably need to apologize a little bit, we are not quite up
to speed here on all the details, which is okay, but we are looking at some of the
information here for the first time here this evening. but, generally, not in opposition to
the application here, just trying to discern more certain information. So, who the heck
can tell me if the knuckle is public or private? Is that -- it's all public? Okay. So, I think
that was one of our main concerns, just -- I heard somebody mention private and
Meridian City Council
April 1, 2008
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wanted to make sure that they dan't preclude the Lukeharts from being able to do
private or public to the south for the parcel and I think that's really --
De Weerd: I believe that the private starts right there.
Rennison: Okay. Great. So --
De Weerd: All of that is public to the road.
Rennison: Great. Great. And I knave they have -- it looks like pretty hard to not impact
the Lukeharts' use, which, you know, they don't presently have plans to develop that,
but, of course, you know, one of the comments would just be that -- that in consideration
of that design that we don't -- we don't back them into a corner there on trying to marry
in with that and I don't know what the answer is, just looking at it for the first time, but
I'm sure that these guys know what they are doing and we won't end up with that
situation. But if we could add that to the record. Thank you.
De Weerd: 50, they have that piece right there?
Rennison: That's correct. That's correct. That's the Lukeharts. Correct. So, we just
want to preserve the building to do either/or and I think it can be accommodated by this
design, but just haven't studied it enough to know for sure, so -- maybe Scott could
answer that directly already. Thanks.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Bird: Madam Mayor`? Sir.
De Weerd: I'm sorry. Mr. Bird.
Bird: Daes that go -- does Lukeharts go down to the corner'?
Rennison: That's -- yeah, there is -- so this is --
Bird: They go down to the corner?
Rennison: -- about three acres and they own three acres to the south.
Bird: And it gaes right to the corner? Okay.
Rennison: Well, which corner are you referring to?
Bird: McMillan.
Rennison: No. No, it does not. It's just -- just --just three acres. So, if we -- it's the
other white piece --
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April 1, 2008
Page 42 of 52
Bird: That's -- okay. It's right there.
Rennison: Yeah. If we get back to that other -- to your zoning slide, it's the other RUT.
There you ga. There you go. That's -- that piece.
Bird: Okay. ,
De Weerd: Thank you.
Rennison: Thanks.
De Weerd: Okay. Is there anyone else who would like to provide testimony?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: This is just on the last comment. The one thing that would, essentially, be
etched in stone is that their access would be a portion of what we have already looked
at. They -- the southern most property will not have any access. You'd end up taking
the striping and candles away and extending this across and that would be where the
access to it would be.
Bird: No. They got another one. Go back to the site -- right there, Anna. See, they
got -- they got a couple of roads south of it. They got a --
De Weerd: No.
Bird: Yeah. Right there on the -- that's a road right there.
Zaremba: That's a cul-de-sac.
Bird: Comes around --
De Weerd: No. I think the knuckle's intended to give them their access. That's -- in
your concluding remarks that would be good.
Rennison: Yeah. This parcel doesn't -- doesn't -- this is a -- would be a primary access.
De Weerd: That would be their access.
Rennison: That's correct. So, again, just -- there just needs to be same thought put into
haw that would be -- how that would possibly be expanded to the south. It looks like we
are pretty darn close, but we just don't want to preclude being able to do either/or, public
or private, into the development. That's the primary concern.
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De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions?
Rennison: No.
De Weerd: Okay. Final wrap up remarks.
Grime: Again, Evelyn Grime. And realize earlier I didn't state my address. My
company is Place Design and Planning. Address is 100 Main Street, 83702.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Grime: So, talk about our knuckle, which is an Evelyn term, not an ACRD term, not a
code term, Ijust -- it looks like a knuckle to me. So, the idea is that this is all public
right of way. This tree island would exist under license agreement with ACHD and this
right of way length to the public right of way Cedar Grave, remains in effect specifically
so that should they choose to develop their property differently than its existing
condition, the striping would go away and the design of this knuckle would, then,
expand, whether it kept the same radius or had to modify slightly, depending on how
you took access into this parcel. Now, we have chosen to come in and take access at
a 45 degree angle. That is -- that does not say that they have to do the same thing.
But their access would come off of this public right of way. At that point a full cul-de-
sac or circle. And at that time this tree island could be revisited by ACHD through
license agreement to either expand to continue to control this traffic or if there was a
safety concern at any point -- again, under a license agreement it could be taken away.
My concern as a planner and a driver is that if I have got a straight shot across this, I'm
not going to slow down for much. If I have something to Zook at, I have something in my
way and I go around it, I'm going to slow dawn; I'm going to pay a little more attention.
Also, I think it's a really nice feature. I admit as an architect I'm just not so crazy about
asphalt. So, when I'm looking at 110 feet across of asphalt, I always think, boy, we
could da something there in the middle that would be so much nicer.
De Weerd: Having driven with a planner I understand your statement.
Grime: And I think one other question, if I may, Madam Mayor, is Councilmember Bird
asked about the meandering sidewalk; correct? Okay. And if we could switch back to
the landscape plan, perhaps. I think there is opportunity and surely Scott and I can put
our heads together and come up with a solution for you. But I think there is opportunity
at the ends of this landscape buffer to take this sidewalk perhaps and, you know, meet
it. You definitely want to meet and be consistent. And maybe it meanders into this
paint and, then, it comes down and straightens out, remains in a detached fashion, in
my opinion, simple because of safety and appeal. Nice to have that nice landscaping,
especially if you're an your bike and you fall. I like that landscape cushion. But there
is an opportunity here and here to meander that and to continue that effect and just
softly straighten it out along the center part and, then, go back. I think there is a design
solution in there that could be worked on, if we -- given approval and given the
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April 1, 20p8
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confidence to move ahead, I suspect we would want to move with -- work with ACRD
very quickly to maybe implement some of those changes.
De Weerd: It sounds like you would need to quickly implement those changes. I guess
we'd have to ask Christie on that. I guess I agree with Councilman Bird. Anytime we
can get a detached sidewalk -- I watch kids on Fairview walking to school and it's
frightening. And I know they are middle school students and not as mature as high
school students, but I have also seen high school students walk to school as well on
Linder. And so, you know that -- that is a concern and certainly the additional buffer is
helpful.
Grime: Better. And I have actually been graceful enough to fall on my bike. So, grass
is always a good thing.
De Weerd: Okay.
Grime: Any other questions?
De Weerd: No. Thank you.
Canning: Madam Mayor? Oh.
De Weerd: We better have Christie make a comment.
Richardson: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Christie Richardson
representing the Ada County Highway District, 3775 Adams Street, Garden City. '
De Weerd: Thank you.
Richardson: We are at a point where I do think it's too late to change the design for the
sidewalk, because the Nelson property, which is this property we are talking about this
evening and the Lukehart property, were both out parcels. ACRD did have to work with
the property owners, not the developers, to acquire right of way and in doing so we
could only go with the minimum amount, which would be for the seven foot attached
sidewalk. And so there is a possibility of that north end, as Evelyn suggested, that we
could detach a little bit to swing out, which we might be doing in that design already.
On the south end, though, it's the Lukehart property where it will remain an attached
sidewalk, again, because it was an outparcel and we had to acquire that right of way.
So, we can certainly look at the north end to see where we can work, which I'm
assuming is already in the design plans anyway, but the south end we can't make any
changes to.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
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April 1, 2008
Page 45 of 52
Borton: Christie, does the south end -- is it the Lukehart property?
Richardson: Uh-huh.
Borton: Is it detached at Lochsa Falls south of that, right -- is this detached?
Richardson: That's detached sidewalk. Correct. So, we just have these two small
segments -- two properties with the attached and for the most part the rest of the project
is all detached sidewalk.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Borton: Was the intent to connect the attached to the detached on that southern
portion --
Richardson: Correct.
Borton: Okay.
Bird: We tried.
Richardson: Thank you.
De Weerd:. Thank you. It was nice that the developer had an interest in working with
Mr. Bird there. Anna; did you have an additional comment?
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I just wanted to comment on Mr.
Rennison's comments. I did misspeak during the presentation and I wasn't sure if this
was public or private. There are clearly two options for the south property. One is to
come in and do the full cul-de-sac as Mrs. Grimes mentioned, but a true knuckle --
which we actually use that term in our ordinance -- would be one where you would see
almost a 90 degree turn and, then, this -- just this portion becomes the knuckle up there.
So, they even bring a public street in at an angle or -- there is a lot of flexibility there,
given their current of right way that exists on their property. So, I think there is plenty of
opportunity to have either a private road system or a public road coming into the
property.
De Weerd: Plenty of choices.
Canning: And landscape islands are required in knuckles also, so --
De Weerd: Okay. Any further questions from Council? And the applicant has said
their final word; correct? Okay. Well, Council, if there is no more testimony do I have a
motion to close?
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April 1, 2008
Page 46 of 52
Bird: Madam Mayarf?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we close AZ 07-002, PP 08-002, and CUP 08-003.
Borton: Second.
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to close the Public Hearing on Items
17, 18 and 19. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd: Okay.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve AZ 07-002, request for annexation and zoning and to include
all staff, applicant, and public testimony.
Borton: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to approve Item 17. Is there any
discussion? Madam clerk, will you, please, call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, absent; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd: Item 18.
Bird: Madam Mayor, before I make the motion, this is where we would add the -- modify
1.1.2 and 1.4.1 is in the preliminary plat, wouldn't it be?
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilmember Bird, no that was
already done. That was done before between Planning Commission and --
Bird: Okay. Then -- Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
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April 1, 2008
Page 47 of 52
Bird: I move we approve PP 08-002, the preliminary plat, and to include all staff,
applicant, and public testimony.
Barton: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to approve Item 18. If is there no
discussion, Madam Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, absent; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd: Okay. Item 19.
Bird: Madam Mayor'?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve CUP 08-003, the request for a Conditional Use Permit, and to
include all staff, applicant, and public testimony.
Borton: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 19. Seeing there is no
discussion, Madam Clerk.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, absent; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
De Weerd: Thank you. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 20: Public Hearing: Outdoor Sales and Temporary Use Permit
Ordinance:
Item 21: Ordinance No. Outdoor Sales and
Temporary Use Permit Ordinance (1S Reading):
De Weerd: Item 20 is a Public Hearing on outdoor sales and temporary use permit
ordinance. I will open this Public Hearing and ask for staff comments.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I packed up, I was ready to go
home. I'm sorry. Forgot there was one additional item on the agenda.
De Weerd: Yeah. You're not eager or anything, are you?
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April 1, 2008
Page 48 of 52
Canning: You have had a presentation two times about the temporary sales -- outdoor
sales and temporary use permit ordinance. If there are folks in the audience that are
new to it, I can give a presentation, but, otherwise, I was going to pass. And there are a
few people --
De Weerd: Is there anyone in the audience who would like to hear the full presentation
on temporary use outdoor sales? Nope.
Canning: Okay. Well, with that --
De Weerd: How about you, Ralph? You're good to go.
Canning: With that I would note that at your last hearing we had a lengthy discussion
about some of the remaining issues. We did work -- the primary one was coming up
with a one stop shop for the temporary use permits and we have done that. The clerk's
office volunteered for that to be within the clerk's office and, then, what we will have
them do is run it up to planning for a site plan approval, so that they can take advantage
of our staff s expertise on the ability to just read site plans. So, we will do that part of it
and they will run it up to the parks department with regard to any conditions that the
parks director may have. With regard to parks, they are -- currently the newest draft of
the ordinance references -- let me read it. References any and all licenses, permit,
inspections, and/or certifications required by Title 13 of the Meridian City Code and/or
policies of the Meridian Parks and Recreation Department. So, what that means is
when they go up to get the parks department approval right now, they can -- anything
that the parks department has in place right now will apply. Now, those aren't codified
yet. They do have standards, they are just not yet codified. But Mrs. Kane will work
with the parks department to codify those and we believe that this language will suffice
even after that's codified. But if we do need to change this a little bit, we will do it when
those get codified.. But it works for right now. There is no statutory conflicts and we
will make sure to keep an eye on that in the future as well. So, that was the only
remaining issue, really, with regard -- you received a letter from Ms. Backman saying
that she was -- felt that it was a good ordinance and she didn't have any outstanding
issues with it. So, we were very glad to see that. We worked really hard with Teri and
she provided a ton of input on this, to the point where I think she thought she was
bothering us, but, really, she was the one that knows these better than any of us. So,
she gave great input and we are glad to have that recommendation for approval from
her. The UDC text amendment, we did reschedule -- or we have the reconsideration
hearing before you on April 15th and the two ordinances should be adopted that night.
So, if this is the first reading, if you wouldn't mind having a second reading next week
during your presentation one, that could be the second meeting, but you wouldn't
necessarily need to take any public testimony and, then, at the third reading we -- you
could, if you want to, have additional public input and, then, hopefully pass it that night.
So, that would be the 15th. And with that -- oh, there is one change. One unresolved
issue. It's not really unresolved. Ms. Backman pointed out that one portion of the
ordinance states written permission and the other states just permission and we would
recommend that we just go with permission of the property owner to post a sign there.
Meridian City Council
April 1, 2008
Page 49 of 52
We don't need the written permission. So, that's Section 3-4-3A-8. So; that's the only
change that needs to be made. And with that I will answer any questions you may
have.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you, Anna. Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none, Mayor.
Gorton: No.
De Weerd: Anna, I would certainly like to recognize your efforts in working in
collaboration with the various stake holders that have a perceived or a real impact with
the changes and appreciate that you have tried to look at how we can address each of
those one by one and -- you and Emily, we recognize the efforts of both of your offices.
So, thank you so much.
Canning: Thank you. And I'm tickled that we have got this done again, because when
we passed the UDC I knew the temporary use stuff -- quite frankly, I knew it wasn't right,
but I couldn't get my arms around it and get it in my head how to make it right and I
really think we have gat it right now or close to it. Much closer than we were before, so
I'm excited.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. This is a Public Hearing. Is there anyone who would
like to provide testimony on this application? Since I know all the faces out there, kind
of, doesn't look like it. Council, any comments during this Public Hearing section? Mr.
Nary.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I guess your direction is what I was
seeking. Do you want this on for a second reading and a third reading or do you want
to accelerate it to a second and third reading on the next -- on the 15th? Do you want to
list it as a reading on the 9th, even though it's just a special meeting workshop, and,
then, third reading on the 15th? Because we do have to bring the other ordinance back.
Whatever your preference is.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: The workshop meeting is open to the public. I suggest we have the second
reading then and the third reading on 15th at a Public Hearing.
Nary: Okay.
Bird: I agree.
Nary: Thank you.
Meridian City Council
April 1, 2008
Page 5D of 52
De Weerd: Okay. Very good.
Bird: Do we just continue the Public Hearing?
Nary: It will just be listed as a second reading next time, so --
De Weerd: So, you can close the Public Hearing and continue to read it or do you want
to continue the Public Hearing for the next two weeks?
Nary: Well, let's -- Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, let's go ahead and continue
the Public Hearing. If there is comment, I think the intent of the Council is if there is
any other comment -- I think we have exhausted the comment as much as I think there
is, but I mean in case there is anything else certainly that's not a problem.
De Weerd: Okay.
Bird: Madam Mayor'?
De Weerd: Yes.
Bird: Can we -- we can read the ordinance, even though the --during the -- right in with
the Public Hearing, can't we, Bill?
Nary: Yes.
De Weerd: Okay. Madam Clerk, will you, please, read Ordinance No. 08-1354 by title
only.
Holman: Madam Mayor, City of Meridian Ordinance No. 08-1354, an ordinance of the
City of Meridian replacing Chapter 4, Title 3 of the Meridian City Code relating to
outdoor sales and temporary uses. Providing far definitions, regulating mobile sales
units, regulating temporary uses, and providing for a citizen's use permit and providing
for a savings clause.
De Weerd: Thank you. You have heard this ordinance by title only. Is there anyone
who would like to hear it read in its entirety? Seeing none, Council, I would ask for
continued -- continuation on Item 20.
Borton: Madam Mayor'?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I would move that we continue the Public Hearing on Item 20, the temporary
use permit ordinance, to April 8th.
Meridian City Council
April 1, 2008
Page 51 of 52
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to continue Item 20 to next week. All
those in favar say aye. All ayes. Mation carried.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd: Item 21 will have its second reading as well next week.
Item 21: Executive Session: Idaho State Code 67-2345(1)0.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Not on your calendar, but we added it on you. We do have an Item 22.
De Weerd: Okay.
Bird: An Executive Session. I move we go into Executive Session as per Idaho State
Code 67-2345(1)(f).
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to adjourn into Executive Session.
Madam Clerk, will you, please, call roll.
Rall-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, absent; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
EXECUTIVE SESSION:
De Weerd: Council I would enterkain a motion to come out of Executive Session.
Bird: So moved.
Borton: Second.
De Weerd: All those in favor say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Meridian City Council
April 1, 20D8
Page 52 of 52
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 10:30 P.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
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MAYOR TAMMY De EERD
~~~~~~
DATE APPROVED
ATTEST:
JAYCEE L. OLMAN, C
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