HomeMy WebLinkAbout2008 02-26Meridian City Council Meeting February 26, 2008
A meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 7:20 p.m., Tuesday,
February 26, 2008, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd..
Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd, Keith Bird, Charlie Rountree, and David
Zaremba.
Members Absent: Joe Borton.
Others Present: Bill Nary, Will Berg, Jaycee Holman, Anna Canning, Jeff Lavey, Ron
Anderson, Steve Siddoway, Jeff Lavey, Bob Stowe, Pete Friedman, Elroy Huff, Clint
Dolsby, Keith Watts, and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
X David Zaremba 0 Joe Gorton
X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
De Weerd: Okay. Council, I will go ahead and call this meeting to order. Thank you all
for being here tonight. Sorry for the late start. It is, for the record, Tuesday, February
26. It's 20 minutes after 7:00. We will start tonight's meeting with roll call attendance.
Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance:
De Weerd: Item No. 2 is the pledge of allegiance. Tonight we will be led in the pledge
by Tyler Signmont. If you will all rise and join us in the pledge.
(Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
Item 3: Community Invocation by Bishop Wayne Nichols of the Lochsa Falls
Ward of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints:
De Weerd: Tyler, I do have a City of Meridian pin to thank you for joining us and
leading us in the pledge. Thank you. Hopefully, your parents give you extra credit or
you get some benefit by doing that. Okay. Item No. 3 is our community invocation.
Tonight we will be led by Bishop Wayne Nichols. He is of the Lochsa Falls Ward of the
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. If you will all join us in the community
invocation or take this as an opportunity for a moment of reflection. Bishop.
Nichols: Our Father in Heaven, in gratitude we come before thee this evening at the
beginning of this meeting. We wish to thank thee for the many kind blessings that we all
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 2 of 81
enjoy at thy hand, for the opportunity to live in this wonderful community. We ask thee
to bless the people who serve diligently in our behalf as citizens. Wilt thou bless them
with wisdom and understanding in making the decisions that come before them. We
ask thee., Father, that those who will speak here tonight may do so clearly and
effectively to convey their message and those who are listening might do so clearly with
discernment and understanding. We ask thee to bless the families of those who are
here while they are separated from them, that no harm or accident may come to them.
These favors and blessings, Father, we ask and do in the name of thy son, Jesus
Christ, amen.
Item 4: Adoption of the Agenda:
De Weerd: Bishop, we'd like to thank you again for joining us. Okay. Item No. 4 is
adoption of the agenda.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I would ask that we note that on Item F of the Consent Agenda, the grand
total that we are being asked to approve is four times the amount printed for 125,944
dollars. And with that I move that we approve the agenda as published.
Rountree: Second..
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to approve the agenda as amended.
All those favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIES: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 5: Consent Agenda:
A. Approve Minutes of January 22, 2008 Pre-Council Meeting:
B. Approve Minutes of February 1, 2008 City Council Special
Meeting:
C. Approve Pedestrian Pathway Easement Aareement with Ten
Mile Center LLC for McNelis Subdivision:
D. Water Main Easement Aareement for Hickory Office by Hickory
Land Partners, LLC:
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 3 of 81
E. Task Order No 21 for the Ten Mile Creek Crossing
Replacement with JUB Engineers, Inc. for $13,270.
F. Black Cat Water Main Reimbursement Agreement. with
Primeland Development, Keego Springs, Pole Creek
Properties, and Dyver Development for $31,486 each.
G. Task Order 0733 with Hvdro Logic,. LLC for Well 28 Test and
Production Well Design, Development and Inspection for a
Cost Not to Exceed $57,420:
H. Task Order 0732 with Hvdro Logic, LLC for Well 14
Rehabilitation Design for a Cost Not to Exceed $25,000.
De Weerd.: Item 5 is the Consent Agenda.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Again, with a note that Item F is for a grand total of 125,944 dollars, I move
that we adopt the Consent Agenda and for the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to attest.
Rountree: Second..
De Weerd.: Okay. I have a motion and a second to adopt the Consent Agenda as
noted. If there is no discussion, Madam Clerk, will you, please, call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, absent.
MOTION CARRIES: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 6: Department Reports
A. Legal Department /Police Department:
Tabled from February 19, 2008: Presentation on Police
Pay Plan by Bill Nary and Jeff Lavey:
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Item 6 under Department Reports. We'll kick it off with
legal.
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 4 of 81
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this actually is an HR report with the
police. This matter was set over from last week for you to have some opportunity to
review the report that was submitted to you, as well as the comparisons and the pay
schedule that we were looking at. The chief could probably give more of the detail, but
this is an opportunity for you to have some time to review the report and formulate any
questions or issues or concerns that you may have for us to do and., then, I think the
chief maybe can have a discussion or conversation with you about implementation of
this plan, if that's your direction to go forward.
Lavey: Madam Mayor and Council, we were here last week to discuss the pay
proposal. And, then, we tabled it for a week so you could review your documentation
and in that documentation it kind of talks about how we got to where we are at here
today and I guess I'm here to answer any questions that you may have come up with
over the week's time. But, basically, what our plan would be is to adopt this new pay
schedule and to implement it as fast as we probably could.. We have talked with finance
-- HR and myself have talked with finance as far as how to implement it -- implement the
plan. Also, we are looking to do it in stages. One would be the pay adjustments and
the longevity portion of it would be immediately and the specialty pay, work assignment
pay, and those sort of things would be adopted into FY-09 budget. And we do have the
monies available to implement it and I believe those are in front of you as well. It would
cost 90,000 dollars to implement it as of March 21st and carry us through the rest of the
fiscal year. I do not know what the figures are. You have it spelled out, but it's about
1.3 million dollars over a five year period, which is about 300 and some thousand would
be FY-09 to implement the plan. ha nwe knewathere wasl some issues. reWe did hsome
are here in the first place was t
unofficial checking and, then, with the Council's direction we hired a consultant and the
consultant has brought some figures in front of you. But also the -- the other thing is to
kind of market Meridian police department and fill the open positions that we have had
for a long time. What we are finding is that the police work is inherently more
dangerous today than it ever has been and we are also finding that the type of job now
a lot of people don't care for and it's the kind of profession where if you need help they
are the first person that you want to see and if you are causing that trouble, you're the
last person they want to see and sotuallkl hiref hAnd asttof t daydl gcualren ly have ten
wash more people out than we ac y
openings and I have not been able to fill those openings. It seems like as soon as we
fill them that we are losing other people. And so that's of kind where we are at and if
you'd look at the figures, I believe they are reasonable. If you compare it to the average
it gives us a little bit above average based on everybody that we had analyzed, but it
still puts us at number four here in the valley. So, I believe the request is also
reasonable. And with that being said -- unless Mr. Nary has some information I may
have missed, I am open to questions and just the discussion.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you., chief. Any questions?
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 5 of 81
Rountree: Madam Mayor. Chief, you indicated a cost for five years of 1.3 million.
That's at the current staffing level or is that at projected increase in staff?
Lavey: That would be at current projected staffing level of 80.
Rountree: Okay.
Lavey: So, any -- any planning of the future., then, it would definitely be higher than that.
Rountree: And was any thought given to what the increase would do to impact fees for
police?
Lavey: No, it was not, I do not believe. I don't believe impact fees can be used for --
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilmember Rountree, because it's
personnel, impact fees don't cover personnel, they only cover capital improvements.
So, the impact fees wouldn't cover any costs regarding personnel.
Bird: And certain capital improvement, as I understand.
Nary: Correct. Just certain capital improvements.
Rountree: Other than the capital improvements that might be required for additional
police officers.
Nary: Correct. Yeah. And that wasn't factored in, expanding the building, or those
types of things, no. That wasn't factored into this particular number, no.
Rountree: And one last question, Madam Mayor. Were benefit packages factored into
this analysis or is it strictly --
Lavey: Benefit package as well. The three hundred and some thousand per year
includes all benefits.
Rountree: Okay.
Lavey: That 90,000 for this year also includes all benefits.
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Yes. Chief, first, can we implement this at the end of the March -- starting of April
pay period or -- because we are probably too late to start in March, aren't we?
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 6 of 81
Lavey: When we discussed it with finance, if we would have done it last week we could
have implemented it for March 21st. There is still a possibility to -- I was shooting for
April 1st and finance wants to do it at the start of the pay period., which is March 21st,
which is what we are going to shoot for if it's approved today. And if we can't make it by
then, then, we will just do the next pay cycle. But we are going to implement it on the
pay cycle, not on the first of the month.
Bird: And my second follow-up question, Madam Mayor, is this has been explained to
all officers, because a couple years from now all they will get is their COLAs, some of
the officers, because they will be at the top and they all have been -- this has all been
explained to them as I understand.
Lavey: Yes. You can actually look at it to the point -- there is one figure in there where
it's -- it's actually a pretty good benefit to the city.
Bird: I know.
Lavey: And it's -- it has been explained to them and just to let you know how we got to
where we are at is we put a group of officers in place and those officers were some
veteran officers and some new officers and the figures that you have in front of you was
taken to them with the mind set that this is what we are proposing and this is what
you're going to get and this is only what you're going to get and they are good with that,
because a couple different things is that it's going to shorten it up, so they are going to
get more sooner, less later. But the other things it's giving them is a couple areas that
they don't have currently, which is a couple different certification levels. We have
always had basic, intermediate, and advanced and we added -- Council added a couple
years ago a masters level, but we had about six people eligible for that masters level,
but we never gave it to them and, then, they weren't going to get it for another six years.
So, there would be -- of our officers that currently have masters certificates, they are
going to move into that slot. And, then, with our supervisors, you can actually get
supervisory certificates and management certificates that we have never paid for as
well. These are in -- and so these are some areas of additional monies. The whole
thought process on the longevity was to accommodate that, where you're not going to
be getting anything else on your pay -- or on the pay unless you go into a specialty area
or unless you go through a promotion, but you're going to get something for the years of
service that you have given to the city. Fortunately for us is there is only 12 people,
including myself, that have over ten years of experience here -- or ten years with
Meridian and six people that have longevity of 15 years, and so the longevity costs are
pretty insignificant, 6,100 dollars. Over time it would be a great cost. They are aware of
it. The one thing that HR has said is that over the course of the years we will evaluate
the current levels that we are paying and adjustments may or may not happen. So,
that's -- they are aware of that.
Bird: Well, I think that's only smart to take a look at it over the years.
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 7 of 81
Nary: In fact, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilmember Bird, one of the
things that I think was the flaw of the prior system was that the system itself wasn't bad,
it was there was no maintenance of the system. No one evaluated it after a period of
time that it was still valid and it was still marketable, that it was being kept current with
the local economy. And that's not our intent. And that's -- but it has been the
discussion with the officers and I have certainly offered to Chief Lavey between now
and whenever we implement this, that him, myself, whoever he would like to be a part of
that, to have those one on ones or group sessions with officers, I'm happy to do that. I
certainly don't want two or three years from now people concerned that it's still not
meeting their needs, but I don't anticipate that. But we did have this lengthy discussion
at a number of these meetings with the employees that other than the potential of,
essentially, maintenance costs for keeping it current from that five year mark until the
ten year mark, there were no other increases built into the system. That's not
uncommon in the industry and that's not uncommon in the local marketplace. So, that
wasn't foreign to them. They did understand that and they were comfortable with that
and they did look at -- at least the people on the committee really looked at this. This
was an attempt to really make some adjustments to get the pay program where it
should be, where it was comfortable and competitive with other agencies in the valley,
not to say they -- you know, they may not be coming in another budget year for
increases or some changes, I think that's inevitable, but I think we are trying to put
together a program that could allow for that. It made it simpler to understand than what
you have today. Some of us recall a few years ago with out general employees pay we
did the same thing. We changed it to make it simpler and understandable for folks and,
then, we still make -- make a lot of efforts to make sure we keep current. That's our
intent with this.
Lavey: And also just to add to that is that it compares to everybody else around the
area. So, when they are having that late night side by side chat, they are talking apples
to apples pretty much now because of the -- the makeup of this scale. And the other
thing that I bring before you is -- and it's probably of less interest to you and more
interest to HR and myself is the administrative guidelines. One of the things that I found
when I took over the roll of chief is that we had people in positions in -- that we couldn't
explain why they were in the positions they were at and so I asked for some -- basically
a play book, a roll book, that says this is how you got to where you're at. It will also
cover with the certified officers as well. There is no mistaking where you fall into the
pay scale and if there is any doubt you just look at the words that we have written down
and so it kind of helps us now, so Mr. Nary and myself are not pulling our hair out trying
to figure how we got to -- how they got to where they are at.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Zaremba.
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 8 of 81
Zaremba: That raises the question are there any individuals that are likely to be paid
less than they were the week before once this goes into effect?
Lavey: What we have done is we made the administrative decision to insure that
nobody loses any money, but there is a couple groups of people that get substantially
less of an increase, but, then, I was quick to point out last year Council had made an
adjustment and that's why the increase is much less, is that we have already taken care
of some of the issues, just not all of the issues. And so we are actually talking about
like a half a percent increase, yes. But nobody will get zero.
Zaremba: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Either you or Bill and probably Bill. I'll preface this by saying I'm not a real
fan of longevity, but I don't understand the situation here as it relates to just a statement
that there will be longevity that recognizes ten years or more of service. So, explain
what the intent is.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilmember Rountree, I mean what
part of the plan that we were looking at -- initially, the chief had been looking at phasing
in different aspects of this, doing pay adjustments maybe in this budget year, if the
financial means were there to do that and., then, looking at some other enhancements to
it. What we found is in longevity that providing some additional compensation for
officers at the ten, 15, and 20 year mark of a per hour increase was a marketable type
of program that was consistent with other departments in the valley, so that was a
means for retention. We don't want to lose ten year officers. We have invested a lot of
money to that point in the officer to, then, have them leave for another agency would be
really a loss to the city. So, finding a way to create some retention in that was what we
were looking for. What we found is we still have a fairly young department and so the
cost of that is something that we could incorporate now and that's -- that was the intent
is that -- to try to bring some of those folks that have waited a long time for some
increases that have not been kept current as they probably should have been over the
years to be able to make those adjustments now. The expense was fairly small and so
when the chief and I and finance talked about it, we found it was -- it was doable to
propose to do that in this current budget with the dollars that are saved and the long-
term impact was still a plus to the city, because, again, we have a fairly young
department. I mean as the chief stated., we only have a certain number of officers that
would even be eligible for that. But it does provide an incentive at the ten year mark,
fifteen year mark for folks that don't have other options maybe at that point. It may not
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 9 of 81
be practical for some of the specialty pay, may not necessarily be reasonable, but it
does provide a retention method.
Lavey: In the -- in the old scale we actually covered from zero to 121 percent increases
over the length of the scale and it was kind of an idea that we will scale that back to 59
percent, so from start to finish is 59 percent, and instead of going up to the 121 percent,
that we put in some sort of longevity plan. Longevity is something that they recognize
as far as when we are marketing other agencies they have longevity plan in place and
that's one of the questions that's asked of us and so it was kind of a give-take thing.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Rountree: My concern is that -- and it -- maybe it's just how it comes across to me -- is
that longevity in a pay system implies to me an entitlement, whether you perform or not,
you know, if you show up for ten years you get increase, as opposed to defining it
something along the lines of a market adjustment or retention adjustment or something
of that nature that equates to me as a reasonable thing to do for somebody is you`re
going to lose them. There may be people that have ten years that if you lose them is
not going to be critical. So, I -- that's where I come from.
Lavey: And I understand that and I respect that.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird.: I, for one, like the longevity, because if -- and if you let them get ten years there
and they are not -- they are not worth being there, then, that's administrations fault. Us
four Councilmen and the chief of police's fault in Meridian. I think you should award
people that would stay -- somebody that's been there ten years has got to be more
valuable to the department than somebody that's been there six months or a year or two
years. So, I like the longevity. I think it's fair pay for the people. My main concern --
and you answered it, which I'll renew, that nobody takes -- nobody takes a pay cut and
I'm definitely -- not ever want to see that happen.
Lavey: I wouldn't to go in front of those 80 officers and tell them that I'm going to cut
their pay.
Bird: I like the program.
Rountree: They all carry guns.
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 10 of 81
Lavey: I'd have to -- yeah, but I'd have to -- I would have to find my gun first.
Bird: I think I'd want more than a pistol.
De Weerd: And you're not bringing the Mayor with you either.
Bird.: I think it's a good plan. I think it's something that is doable. And I'm for getting on
with it as fast as we can.
De Weerd.: Any other questions from Council?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor, just a comment. It appears to be well thought out and
apparently supported by the troops and if it helps in recruiting ten more people, I think
it's great.
Lavey: Well.., I hope it's well thought out and if it's not, it's Bill's fault.
Zaremba: There we go.
De Weerd: Now, I would have blamed it on the members from your department that
served on it, so --
Lavey: Oh, no, no, no.
De Weerd: We appreciated their involvement and time, because there was
considerable time and debate that went on, but they stuck with it and I think they came
up with a good final product.
Lavey: They are mentioned in the executive summary and I would like to take note that
they did do a great job.
De Weerd: Okay. Council?
Rountree: Madam Mayor, just a final comment that the retention, as well as the
vacancies that we have managed to maintain for too many months was a critical issue
in the hiring of a new chief and if this helps the new chief accomplish full compliment,
then, I'm all for it. We need to get those ten filled and maintain afull -- full service.
De Weerd: I think that the premise that this was happening has allowed us not to have
more openings to fill, so we appreciate that.
Lavey: That and I do have certified officers that are interested in coming. Three are
currently going through the process. And they have an idea of where we are trying to
go, but I have several more that have been inquiring and are just kind of sitting back
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 11 of 81
and watching what happens tonight and I'm confident that we will get several more
certified officers to Meridian Police Department, which will also help us with that
youngness of our department.
Bird.: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird..
Bird:: If everybody is done discussing, I'd make a motion that we accept the new pay
scale and implement it for the pay period starting March 21st.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second.. Any discussion? Madam Clerk, will
you, please, call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, absent.
De Weerd: All ayes.
MOTION CARRLES: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
B. Parks Department
1. Discussion of Heroes Park Construction:
De Weerd: Okay. And thank you, chief. Thank you, Mr. Nary. Okay. Item 6-B is our
Parks Department. I'll turn this over to Mr. Siddoway.
Siddoway: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. First off tonight is a
discussion of the Heroes Park construction project that we'd like your direction on.
Heroes Park is located along Ten Mile Road at the intersection with Malta Drive on the
west side of Lochsa Falls Subdivision, under construction with an agreement or in
partnership with PAL. As you know, we have been working out the agreement side of
issues on this project and our direction has been to continue moving forward and
making progress with the park while the details of the agreement are worked out. Just
some general orientation through the park. Along Malta Drive you have the main
parking lot and to the east of that you have got an area that could be used in the future,
a portion of it, for overflow parking and this area where that circle is is the playground or
tot lot area. The irrigation pond sits over against Ten Mile. Storm drainage. And., then,
the majority of the park itself is used for soccer. Last fall we went into the parking lot as
the department -- and, Anna, if you could bring up the Powerpoint. Last fall we made
the improvements to the parking lot. The trees and the grass and shrubs that are -- in
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 12 of 81
the entry of the parking lot are complete at this time and were done last fall. There are
still remaining improvements to that front area, landscaping that are remaining and yet
to be done. The area to the east of the parking lot is currently dirt, needs to be graded.
The irrigation system needs to be completed. There is an area between the parking lot
and where the grass is for the ball fields, a strip of grass there between -- next to the
pathway or sidewalk area that needs irrigation and grass. The concrete pad -- I don't
know if I can -- the concrete pad is in this area. It's currently there as overflow parking,
but just dirt and we would be paving that as well.. And., then, the curbing around the --
that parking area would also be added. Trees could be done as part of this project, but
we could save some money by having them done by staff. So, we can either add the
trees as an addendum or have them planted after the grass and the irrigation and such
are installed. We do have a current budget already in place for Heroes Park. That
budget of 175,000 dollars was approved for the shelter in the park, trash cans, drinking
fountains., tables and trees. We estimate that for the improvements that we are
proposing, our current construction estimate that we received around 146,000, the
remaining leftover budget would be used for the -- to get the trash cans, trees, and park
signage into the park, but we would need to come back to you, if we did this, to
rebudget for the shelter, the tables, and the fountain, because we would be using the
money that had been budgeted for that shelter to make improvements to the -- the
landscaping and getting that finished. So, we are seeking your direction as to whether
we should move forward with this project, sending it out to bid using our existing budget
and., then, in order to keep those improvements moving forward and, then, we would
come back to you to reestablish funds for the shelter and related improvements. And
with that I would seek your direction and stand for questions.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Siddoway. Any questions for staff?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird.: Steve, can you go back to the picture?
Siddoway: Oh, yeah. The picture.
Bird: Right there. I have got some real concern on -- on parking there, with the amount
of fields. You got 16 fields and I realize some of them are little ones, but tell me if I'm
wrong, but the little teams probably have the same amount of kids as the bigger teams,
don't they? I don't know --
De Weerd: They have fewer players.
Rountree: Fewer players, but more parents.
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 13 of 81
Bird: More parents. There is 16 and I don't know, is there -- I hate to take up any of
their fields, but I'm afraid for parking. I can see our police department being out there
along that subdivision and settling fights, disputes, and everything else. every Saturday
or whenever they have it. I wish we could find more ways to -- more area to park. But
at the same token I don't want to give up the playground equipment or anything like that
either. I'm kind of selfish that way, too.
De Weerd: Mr. Bird, they have -- the police have been out there that have helped with
some parking on neighborhood streets. The PAL board responded by putting up
signage that did help. They also helped by scheduling their games a little bit different
and they do limit the number of games going at any particular time. Additionally, the city
has worked with the church that is up in the northwest corner that allows parking on
their property. So, there is a number of things that our staff, the police department, and
the neighboring subdivisions have worked on to try and mitigate the impact of Saturday
soccer games. Steve, do you have anything you want to add?
Siddoway: Yes, Madam Mayor. Two things. One is that we are -- in our discussions
with PAL actively working on having them extend their playing time on Saturdays, so
that they have fewer games scheduled at the same time, so that we can alleviate some
of the parking issues. They have also agreed to purchase some additional signs for the
area south -- currently, they sign the residents requesting their patrons not to park in
front of the residences on the east side. They have agreed to do the same along the
south. And, then, if -- if, as we move on, we continually find that we do not have
additional -- or we do not have enough parking, there is area in here that is reserved
that could be used for future parking and (believe -- how many spaces is that? Around
60 spaces could be added in the future without having to move the playground..
Bird: Okay. Yeah. That's --
De Weerd: And it was believed that, Mr. Bird., some of the people were choosing to
park on the streets, even though there were -- there was parking in the lot.
Bird: Surprise. Surprise.
De Weerd: So, by buying the additional signage, we are hopeful that that will help some
of the circulation issues. Any other questions?
Siddoway: I would just seek your direction, then, in whether we should move forward in
sending this landscape project out to bid.
Rountree: Yes.
Bird: Can't leave it sitting there.
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 14 of 81
De Weerd: Do you have a motion?
Zaremba: I would move that we move ahead with sending the bid out to the landscape
department -- or to a landscape bidder.
Rountree: Second
De Weerd: Was that not to exceed or --
Siddoway: I think it's just not to exceed our current budget. I mean we have an
approved budget for this item for the park. We are just wanting to make sure we have
Council's authority to use funds that were approved for a shelter and other amenities
towards these improvements.
Zaremba: Yeah.
Siddoway: And that that's upfront and clear.
De Weerd: Okay. So, I have a motion and a second to approve the reallocation to
these other items. Any discussion? Madam Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, absent.
MOTION CARRIES: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
2. Discussion of Adventure Island Playground Phase 4:
Siddoway: Okay. Thank you. The second item is just informational. Adventure Island
Playground, it's in our current budget. The phase four -- or if I can bring up a site plan
of this one for you as well. While she's bringing up the site plan, there is three main
components to this next phase. The tree of hope. And this area is to just north of the
existing playground. It's got the sound garden and climbing areas. The funds are
already approved in the current budget, so I'm not here seeking any additional funds. I
simply wanted to let the Commission know -- or the Commission -- the Council know
that we are moving forward on this. It's currently out for bid.. Boy, the lines aren't
showing up very well on there. But just to orient you, this is the edge of the existing
parking lot. You can come in to the play structure that's in here. The tree of hope will
sit right in the center. This area to the right will be the sound garden and will have play
activities that are related to music and sound. The area to the left of the tree of hope is
where the climbing rocks will be. And this was all designed previously and budgeted,
but just wanted to let you know that this project is moving forward. It's out to bid. We
hope to be before you in a couple of weeks with a successful bidder and moving this
project toward construction. And with that I'll stand for any questions.
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 15 of 81
De Weerd: Thank you.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Rountree: Steve, this hasn't got a thing to do with this project, but what's the status of
the tennis court project?
Siddoway: The tennis court project is Settler's Village Square. It is currently budgeted
for construction documents. Those construction documents are approximately 80
percent complete. Elroy and I reviewed a set of those a couple of weeks ago and sent
comments back to The Land Group for their response.
Rountree: So, help me understand what you just said. You said it was budgeted for the
construction documents. My recollection is it was budgeted for construction documents
and construction this year.
Siddoway: All the information I'm -- I may need to dig into this further to come back to
you, but my understanding right now is that the construction documents are budgeted.
We have some funds for the green up of the corner in grass for this year. But the actual
construction of the horseshoes and the tennis courts are not budgeted currently, is my
current understanding now. I will -- I guess I need to look into the last budget cycle.
Rountree: Please do.
Siddoway: Okay.
De Weerd: It's always the new guy thing; right?
Siddoway: I'm sorry, Mayor?
De Weerd: It's the new guy thing.
Siddoway: Yes. I will -- I will dig into that one.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Anything further, Council?
Bird: I have none..
Rountree: I have nothing.
De Weerd: Thank you, Steve and Elroy.
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page T6 of 81
Item 7: Items Moved from Consent Agenda:
De Weerd: Okay. There were no items moved from the Consent Agenda.
Item 8: Continued Public Hearing from February 19, 2008: Proposed Fee
Increase for Planning Department:
De Weerd..: So, we will move to Item 8, continued Public Hearing from February 19th
and turn this over to Mrs. Canning..
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the first item before you tonight is
the proposed fee increase and I have provided information in the packets. If you'd like
for me to put my spreadsheet up on the overhead I can. But I think I'll forego that at this
time and just talk a little bit about the history of where our fees are right now. I think I
have explained this before. We adopted the current fee schedule as part of the new
Unified Code in 2005 and I have not adjusted them since that time. That fee structure
was significantly different than our former fee structure in that there was no per acre or
per square foot charge. We wanted to give it a little time to work itself out and see how
those new fees worked.. We switched away from that, because of the -- a little easier to
-- for folks to understand -- our customers to understand what the fee schedule was and
to have a more predictable and, hopefully, more rational fee when they came in. So, we
have gone for two years now. If I look back at -- at the applications we did during those
two years and kind of compare the two fee schedules, we are getting a lot less money
than we would have under the previous fee schedule. So, I felt it important to come
back to you to propose some modifications to that. The modifications that you're seeing
tonight are a result of two major things. One was Public Works and Planning going
back and reevaluating the estimates we have done in the original fee schedule on how
much time it takes to actually practice -- process a kind of typical application. The big
change there was the time that it takes to get that application complete and off to the
clerk's office. Sometimes it can take us up to four hours to gain a complete applicant
that we weren't counting into the process previously. The other big change comes
about on hearing items more than anything else and that's because we accounted for
the time of the attorney's office and for the clerks, so that we are covering some -- and
the stenographer, so that we are covering some of those hard costs that we -- that are
passed along to our department. The goal here is to have the current planning division
-- not the whole planning department, but the current planning division recoup most of
the fees necessary for running that department. We do not want to become a burden to
the general fund as far as the planning staff goes, so we do want to have that current
planning staff that is there primarily to process development applications supported by
the development fee. Okay. Let me go through some of the new fees. There are three
new fees. One is a development agreement, development modification, and surety fee.
Currently we just charge a miscellaneous application fee to the -- for the development
agreements. So, that miscellaneous fee is 459 dollars. For a new development
agreement we are proposing a fee of 303 dollars, so it's actually a decrease. And for a
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 17 of 81
modification we are proposing 502. That may seem like it should be reversed, but it,
actually, takes us more time to do a modification, because we have to go research the
entire previous development agreement and the hearings that went on behind that.
Surety fee we just currently don't charge one. They do take quite a bit of time for us to
process, so we are looking to institute that fee. There are two other fees that we are
proposing a decrease. They are modest decreases for accessory use for a day care or
a home occupation. The other one is a director determination. Then, we had a few
fees that were just a modest increase in fees. Those were inspections, planned unit
developments, sign -- planned sign programs and zoning verification letters. And those,
really, are about seven percent, which is about to change. It reflects the cost -- or the
change in our average wage over the last two years. I think the big question for Council
is often how does this compare to other cities and in your packet I provided a
comparison to Boise city, Eagle city, Nampa, Middleton, Kuna, and Ada County. And
did have a chance to follow up with either the current planning manager or the planning
director for those communities or several of them. Talked to Boise city and they felt that
-- in general they just felt that they weren't recouping the fees necessary to cover the
time that it takes to process those applications. They had not had direction from
Council and it had been awhile since they updated their fees. So, they just didn't reflect
that time necessary. All of the people I talked to were interested in my methodology
and what we had talked about, because I think they all are mindful of budget these days
and looking to work on it. For other communities it was -- the fees -- it's -- it's a lot of
comparing apples and oranges, because some communities charge -- or send out
separate bills for the engineering review. So, like where Eagle city looks like we are
about the same as Eagle or a little bit more expensive than the city of Eagle, actually,
they get a bill for an engineering fee that's anywhere like 300 dollars for a lot line
adjustment to 1,300 dollars or 500 dollars. I mean most of them varied between 500
and 1,000 dollars. So, there is significant other fees that they pay. And we all are
structured differently. Public works does take in a fee when they review a construction
plan. So, it's really hard to compare apples and oranges just for the planning
department, because some of them tie in more, some of them tie in less. and Ada
County was kind of that way, too. I noticed Ada County fees are a little bit less on the
ones that involve engineering and I think it's because there is not the loop of the Ada
County engineer in the process. So, they tended to have -- be a little bit cheaper on the
things that required engineering review. Talked to the planning director for the city of
Caldwell. He was just told when he did his fee increases to not be more than Nampa.
So, you know, there is competitive advantage sometimes that goes into these fees, it's
not always cost based. But the methodology that I have presented to you is cost based,
it was justifiable and I think it's important that we started looking at -- at some of those
fees that make -- or some of that time and commitment we put into it that we are not
recovering from the attorneys office, from the clerk's office, from our stenographer. I
think that the development community gets a great benefit from having those word-by-
word minutes that they can go back to and look at, as do all of us. So, with that I'll
answer any of your specific questions Council may have. Or Mayor.
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 18 of 81
De Weerd.: Okay. Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. This is a Public Hearing. Is there anyone who would like to provide
testimony on this item? If you will, please, state your name and address for the record.
Kunz: Joe Kunz with the Building Contractors Association at 6206 Discovery Way in
Boise.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Kunz: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Council Members. It is a pleasure to be here with
you this evening. Upon review of the proposed fee increase, the BCA - SWI did note
the discrepancy in revenues collected by the planning department between the fiscal
years 2005 and 2007, during which time the city processed a similar number of
applications. And we also see the problems associated with that decline in revenue.
However, if the fee adopted at the end of 2005 with fihe UDC was based upon time of
process applications, as was part of that factoring, then, it would be reasonable to
assume that there was a decrease in the number of hours worked with that decrease in
revenue. But we also recognize the importance of the fees that we pay and we do -- we
are supportive of a formula to calculate fees according to the time that it takes the city to
process those fees. But we are leery of a fee increase because the calculation does not
recoup as much as the previous fee structure does. So, off the top we -- we were
concerned about that. We did invite Mrs. Canning to our developers council and she
went through the process, eased some of those concerns, but also, as you are aware,
there has been a significant down turn in the housing market, both locally and
nationwide and this situation has required all of our builder developers to reevaluate the
way they are doing business and to even lay off some employees to meet the bottom
line and we, as a building industry, don't feel this down turn should -- should only rest
upon -- should not just affect us as builders and developers, but should affect all those
agencies that rely upon our industry and as you are contemplating a fee increase we'
also ask the city to evaluate the way that they do business during this downturn and
before asking a currently struggling fee increase to insure that their departments are
operating efficiently. Not saying that the department is not. Meridian has always been
excellent in operations and run a -- run a good department, but it is a tough time and
everything affects our builders and developers, especially at this time. Also, as the
association and as I have stated to you and to the city through previous letters, at
previous council meetings, and through conversations that have been had, any increase
in fees does affect the bottom line of a home and, in turn, affects the affordability of that
home. And we at the Building Contractors Association feel it is a mandate by our
customers to provide homes -- quality homes at an affordable rate and these fees do
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 49 of 81
affect that affordability. However, we do realize the -- that the fees are necessary and
that our industry should pay its equitable share of the growth cost. So, it is a delicate
balance that is there and a decision that policy makers like you get to make. I don't
envy you for your task and -- but I do thank you for your service as you -- as you do
serve the cities and do have to make these tough decisions and so I would be glad to
stand for any questions.
De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none..
Rountree: Thanks, Joe.
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I will begin with a comment that I always appreciate the BCA's participation in
all of these kinds of subjects. It's good to have perspective sometimes that differs from
our own. As Director Canning mentioned, it sounds like every jurisdiction in the valley
has a different method of figuring out their fees and I guess my pinpoint question to you
would be are you supportive of the methodology that came up with these fees for us?
Kunz: We are supportive of a cost base per time spent on the application. Yes. It
causes a little bit of hesitation wondering two years ago it was a similar methodology
and came up very far off. And so not that this methodology is not correct now, it may be
the correct methodology, but it causes doubt into our minds as to whether or not it is
needed or if it will be -- need to be adjusted again in two more years.
De Weerd: Well, I hate to tell you this, but I have asked staff to annually review fees, so
that you don't get hit with big increases. So, you have an opportunity annually to stand
in front of us I think.
Kunz: And it seems more than annually.
De Weerd: Oh, come on.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Zaremba: Just as sort of a follow up. Is there any other system or methodology that
you have -- as a group would -- that you like better? I'm sure one that comes out
cheaper I'm sure, but is there somebody who is simpler or --
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 20 of 81
Kunz: I mean as Anna said., it's comparing apples to oranges and I don't know that
there is one silver bullet. This is the right way that it should be. Every -- every city does
it differently and we do commend Anna and the planning department for trying to tie
those fees directly to the cost of service. Our builders and developers are not anti-fee.
They aren't opposed to paying -- to paying fees, they just want to feel that they are
getting value out of the fee that they are paying and a fee related to the cost of service
is our preferred method.
Zaremba: Great. Thank you.
De Weerd: Well, we hope we add value, because the fee gives staff time to be one of
the fastest in the valley and most efficient. I would say more most efficient. So, that
should add value, because it does affect the bottom line. Okay. Anything else,
Council? No?
Rountree: I have no questions for Joe. Thank you, Joe.
De Weerd: Thank you. Any additional testimony? Okay.
Canning: Madam Mayor? Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I did want to say
you don't -- the BCA was very kind to me when I went over there as well. They are --
you know, they are very supportive. I understand the reluctance to not comment on a
fee increase. I did want to point out for BCA's benefit, as well as some of Council may
not know this, but since I went to talk to BCA, I have resigned one of the current
planning staff to -- to not, essentially, be current planning. She's an assistant planner.
Instead of an associate, replacing our associate planner. We hired an assistant planner
and., then, I volunteered that assistant planner up to be the community development
block grant administrator. So, most of her salary for this year will come out of the
CDBG funds, instead of the current planning division funding -- or enterprise funding.
So, I have accommodated that slow down in that way and we have, essentially, lost one
of our current planning staff to -- to other duties.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Council, any additional information needed?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: I have none.
De Weerd.: Your questions have been answered?
Zaremba: They have. Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. No further testimony? Council, I would entertain a motion on this
item.
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 21 of 81
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Zaremba: I move we close the Public Hearing on the proposed fee increase for the
planning department.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to close the Public Hearing on this
item. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries..
MOTION CARRIES: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Zaremba: I move we approve the proposed fee increase for the planning department as
published.
Rountree.: Second..
De Weerd: And to draw up the appropriate paperwork?
Nary: Resolution.
Rountree: Resolution.
De Weerd: Yes. Resolution.
Zaremba: That's part of the motion, yes.
De Weerd: Okay.
Bird: And date certain?
De Weerd: It's been agreed. When is the effective date?
Zaremba: Should we make the effective date April 1st?
Rountree: April 1st.
De Weerd: Anna, is there an effective date that you're seeking?
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 22 of 81
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is where I always get a little
confused on these items. I think the resolution needs to be adopted first, so that could
be done next week. So, April 1st would make logical sense, then.
De Weerd: That would make it April Fool's Day.
Canning: I will wear a jester's hat all day if anybody would like. me to.
De Weerd: Okay. Second agrees?
Rountree: Yes.
De Weerd: Any discussion?
Rountree: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Madam Clerk, will you, please, call roll on this item.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, absent.
MOTION CARRIES: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 9: Public Hearing: CPA 07-013 Request for a Comprehensive Plan
Amendment to modify the Future Land Use Map to change four nodes
with land use designations of Light Industrial to Commercial, two nodes
from Commercial to Light Industrial and one node from Light Industrial to
Public /Quasi Public for a future school site. The amendments are
intended to bring the City's Future Land Use Map into conformance with
the City's Zoning Map. An additional request is to remove the Urban
Service Planning Area (USPA) designation from the map legend and
replace it with the Area of City Impact (AOCI) Boundary by the City of
Meridian Planning Department -two parcels north of Northwest 10th Place
and west of Taylor Street; north of East Franklin Road and east of Taylor
Street; two parcels north of East Overland Road and east of South Teare
Avenue; east of South Locust Grove and north of East Overland Road;
two parcels northwest corner of North Eagle Road and East Lanark Street;
six parcels west of North Eagle Road and north of East Florence Street;
three parcels west of North Eagle Road and south of East Florence Street;
Paddington and Elliott Park Subdivisions south of East Wilson Lane and
east of North Locust Grove Road:
De Weerd: Okay. Item 9 is a Public Hearing CPA 07-013. I will open this Public
Hearing with staff comments.
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 23 of 81
Friedman: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Councih These are
amendments to the Comprehensive Plan land use map that were initiated by staff.
They are essentially housekeeping measures. Seven of them are intended to bring our
Comprehensive Plan map more into a consistency or parody with our zoning map. The
two changes are to kind of accurately portray the location of two schools and, then, the
tenth item is for the removal of the designation of the urban service planning boundary
that currently exists on the Comprehensive Plan land use -- future land use map. A
description of the individual changes is contained in your staff report, but I will go over
them briefly with you just to kind of give you the intent of what was being proposed..
And these were a -- reviewed by the Planning and Zoning Commission at a Public
Hearing on November 1st. There was no testimony either for or against. Notice of both
the Planning Commission's hearing on the changes, as well as tonight's hearing, has
been sent to the individual property owners. So, kind of contrary to what we do with a
lot of comp plan amendments, because of the limited nature of this, we were able to
notify the individual property owners. There has really been -- I've only had one
communication and that was from Brad Miller with Van Auker Properties and they were
fine with it. They really didn't have any comments. So, briefly, changes one and two
are changing the land use designations from commercial to industrial and that is to
reflect the current zoning on the property. Change three is a change from industrial to
high density residential, again, to reflect the zoning on the property and also the current
use of the property as a high density residential. I believe that's the Paddington project.
Oops, I can't mention that. Sorry. Please ignore that last comment. Change number
four and number five, again, are a reflection of both the current use of the properties
and the zoning actions, particularly in number four, even though the current
Comprehensive Plan designation shows the area as industrial, because it was part of a
planned development there is a significant amount of commercial development and
retail development adjacent to Eagle Road. So, we felt it was more appropriate that that
be designated commercial to reflect the true use of the property. Number five was a
rezone that occurred approximately a year, year and a half ago, from industrial to
commercial. Let's see what we have down here. Number six is a change from
industrial to quasi-public and commercial. The quasi-public reflects the ownership of
the property by a church and the commercial for the small piece that you probably can't
make out, which is right down there, again, is a reflection of the current zoning for the
property and number seven is a change in the designation from industrial to
commercial, again, to reflect the current zoning on the property. And, then, the number
two school designations were moved. As you know, we generally locate schools in
areas where we feel it's appropriate to serve the area and this is an adjustment that was
made to reflect the location of two schools that were now committed to those properties.
And, finally, the one that you can't see on the map is the removal of the Urban Service
Planning area. We currently have Urban Service Planning area that is shown on our
future land use map, but it hasn't kept up with some of our changes in our area of city
impact, plus we do planning outside that area, our sewer plans and our water plans
reflect -- have examined areas beyond that. So, rather than have to go change it every
time we amend a sewer or water plan, we felt it was appropriate to take that designation
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 24 of 81
off and also we took it off because we were mindful of the conversations that are going
on through Blueprint For Good Growth in establishing a planning area. So, it really is, in
effect, irrelevant at this point. So, in conclusion, the Planning and Zoning Commission
has recommended approval of these changes. Again, no testimony either for or
against, other than staff recommendation for approval and if you have any questions I
would be happy to answer them.
De Weerd.: Thank you, Pete. Any questions for staff?
Zaremba.: Madam Mayor. On the subject of the Urban Service Planning Area, I think
there are references to that in the UDC and always in the staff reports the Public Works
Department makes reference to them. Are those being searched out and expunged as
well?
Friedman: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Councilman. We will have to go through that. I
know there is a couple of references in the Comprehensive Plan to that and we will be
looking at those and making changes, because under the actual heading of Urban
Service Planning Area it says that and., then, it goes on and proceeds to talk about the
area of city impact. So, yeah, we will make appropriate text amendments to follow that.
Zaremba: Thank you.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilmember Zaremba, if need
be, if we need an Urban Service Planning Area, we can always put it on a separate map
on the Comprehensive Plan. The problem with having it on the land use map is that it
limits the amount of time that we can modify it and it's much more rigorous than if it's
somewhere else in the text. So, it may be that we end up putting additional graphics in,
but in other places of the Comprehensive Plan.
Zaremba.: Okay.
Canning: Or separately adopted.
Zaremba: I just didn't want to have conflicting ordinances.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions from Council? This is a Public. Hearing. Is
there anyone who would like to provide testimony on this application?
Rountree.: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Rountree: Seeing no further desire for testimony, I move that we close the Public
Hearing on Item No. 9.
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 25 of 81
Zaremba: Second..
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to close the Public Hearing on Item 9.
All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIES: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd: Okay. Any discussion?
Rountree: Just a question, Madam Mayor. On any action we take does this require a
resolution, ordinance, or both?
Nary: Resolution.
Rountree: Resolution. Okay. Madam Mayor, I move that we approve Item No. 9, the
Comprehensive Plan amendment, and instruct staff to prepare a resolution that
indicates approval of these changes. Is there a statutory effective date required on
that?
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilmember Rountree, we will make
it effective on approval of the resolution.
Rountree: Okay.
Nary: Since this is a text amendment -- or map.
Rountree: That's my intent, then.
De Weerd: Okay. Second agree?
Zaremba: Second agrees.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further discussion? Madam Clerk, will you, please, call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, absent.
MOTION CARRIES: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd: Okay. Anna, I guess I would ask. This is the end of the Comprehensive
Plan amendments, can we get updated maps in all the appropriate places?
Canning: We have a list.
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 26 of 81
Friedman: Yes, Madam Mayor, Council Members, we will be meeting with our GIS folks
probably next week and we will sit down. We have a number of amendments that we
need to add to our map, so --
De Weerd: It will be exciting to see a new one and that it exists for a little while.
Friedman: Thank you. We have already had a volunteer to hand carry the new prints
over here, so -
Item 10: Public Hearing: RZ 07-017 Request for Rezone of 5.29 acres from R-8
zone to C-G zone (1.62 acres) and L-O zone (3.67 acres) for Verona
Commercial by Primeland Development Group, LLC -Northeast Corner
of West McMillan Road and North Ten Mile Road.:
Item 11: Public Hearing: PP 07-022 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 12
commercial lots and 2 other lots on 18.82 acres in the proposed C-G and
L-O zoning districts for Verona Commercial by Primeland Development
Group, LLC -Northeast Corner of West McMillan Road and North Ten
Mile Road:
Item 12: Public Hearing: MI 07-013 Request for Miscellaneous application to
modify the Recorded Development Agreement for Verona Commercial
by Primeland Development Group, LLC -Northeast Corner of West
McMillan Road and North Ten Mile Road.:
Item 13: Public Hearing: RZ 07-018 Request for a Rezone of 12.64 acres from R-
4 to an L-O zone for Bridgetower Crossing Office by Primeland
Development Group, LLC -Southwest Corner of West McMillan Road and
North Linder Road.:
Item 14: Public Hearing: PP 07-023 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 11
commercial lots and 2 other lots on 10.2 acres in the proposed L-O zoning
district for Bridgetower Crossing Office by Primeland Development
Group, LLC -Southwest Corner of West McMillan Road and North Linder
Road:
Item 15: Public Hearing: MI 07-014 Request for a Miscellaneous application to
modify the recorded Development Agreement for Bridgetower Crossing
Office by Primeland Development Group, LLC -Southwest Corner of
West McMillan Road and North Linder Road:
Item 16: Public Hearing: RZ 07-022 Request for a Rezone of 7.37 acres from C-
G and R-4 to C-N zones and a Rezone of 5.88 acres from R-4 to L-O
zones for Bridgetower Crossing Commercial by Primeland
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 27 of 81
Development Group., LLC -east of North Ten Mile Road and south of
West McMillan Road.:
Item 17: Public Hearing: PP 07-026 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 8
commercial lots and 1 other lot in the proposed C-N zone for Bridg_etower
Crossing Commercial by Primeland Development Group, LLC -east of
North Ten Mile Road and south of West McMillan Road.:
De Weerd: All right. Okay. Our next items are 10, 11 -- 10 through 17 and it's RZ 07-
017, PP 07-022, MI 07-013, RZ 07-018, PP 07-023, MI 07-014, RZ 07-022 and PP 07-
026. I will open these public hearings with staff comments.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, thank you for opening all those
items. For the benefit of any public that may have snuck in that I didn't get a chance to
talk to, we did ask Mayor and Council to consider all of these, because the development
agreements are intertwined and we didn't want to have to repeat testimony with regard
to the development agreements. I will go through each project one by one, so you will
have three projects and three discussions on appropriate development agreements for
those, so -- having said that, we are going to start with the Verona Commercial project.
It's located at the northeast corner of Ten Mile and McMillan. It's 18.82 acres and the
existing zoning is C-G and R-8, as you can see on a small portion of the property right
there. The applications before you tonight are a rezone and preliminary plat. The
proposed development includes 12 nonresidential building lots and two others on the
18.82 acres and there are ten buildings shown on the submitted concept plan. The
Comprehensive Plan designation is both commercial and office. We are proposing a
new development agreement specifically for this area, so that we don't have to
reference the old Verona planned development agreements, so that we are asking for a
brand new one that applies only to this area. Just to back up a little bit on those
histories of the DA -- so, this area was proposed as commercial area and was originally
subject to both the Bridgetower Crossing DA and those are the properties currently
zoned C-G and the Corona DA. Those are the properties currently zoned R-8. And
they are currently proposed for both L-O on the east side and, then, C-G on the west
side of those R-8 areas. Staff is tying the developer to the elevations submitted with the
application and those same elevations will be used for each development agreement
that we have discussed tonight. By developing a new DA for this commercial and office
area, staff believes it will allow for more efficient implementation of the DA and more
consistent implementation of the DA over time. So, we are recommending a new
development agreement for this area and it would contain the following provisions: The
proposed commercial and office building shall be constructed with high quality
materials, including, but not limited to, stucco, wood and brick, with substantial stone
accents, four-sided architecture, highlighted main entrances, stamped decorative
concrete, composite or the roofing material, variations in color, roof planes, and parapet
heights. And those are related to the elevations that we will show you that -- we have
six photos. So, those are kind of sample elevations that led to that list, but they will be
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 28 of 81
tied to these elevations as well. And, then, for this project a minimum of nine buildings
with no one building exceeding 50,000 square feet, shall be constructed on -- within this
area and the maximum allowable nonresidential square footage for the development
shall be 225,000 square feet. And the development of the site shall generally conform
to the site plan. Okay. That's the recommendation that's coming forward from the
Planning and Zoning Commission, who did recommend approval at their December 6,
2007, Public Hearing.. Chuck Christensen spoke for the applicant. Gary Payne, a
resident of Verona Subdivision spoke in opposition. There was no one else
commenting and no written testimony. Key issues of discussion by the Commission
were they discussed the impacts of the through traffic entering the surrounding
residential neighborhoods and those were concerns raised by Mr. Payne. The majority
of the Commission felt the commercial project would not impact the residential
neighborhoods. Furthermore, it would provide access for the residents of the Verona
community, rather than forcing them out onto arterials to access the commercial
development. They also discussed the access points along Ten Mile and McMillan, the
history of the commercial lots for the proposed development, and the planned
intersection improvements at Linder and McMillan. The key Commission changes to
the staff recommendation -- they modified condition 2.15 and deleted the reference to
the Fair Housing Act, since there is no housing in this project. The outstanding issues
before City Council -- currently, the DA provisions read that the applicant should
construct a minimum of nine buildings. The applicant would like that number decreased
to five buildings. And staff is recommending that the Commission -- or the Council add
an additional provision to this DA that drive access needs to be stubbed to the eastern
property line for the two office lots for future connectivity. Let me get an overall -- these
lots are all approved office lots with -- they still have R-8 zoning on them, but these are
approved for office uses. They do -- there is about four or five lots there that were
preliminary platted and, then, just for reference, because I know this was an issue, the
Selway Apartments are on the property just to the north of that. So, we are
recommending that the two lots here on the east have drive aisle access that connects
to those L-O lots, so that we get future connectivity. The applicant did call me today
about this issue and it is an outstanding issue. We do try and get cross-access where
ever possible. One consideration may be that maybe we just get one of those lots, the
southern lot, to provide that cross-access and not worry about the northern lot, which is
closer to the residential development. So, if we could get cross-access at least on this
south lot it would be beneficial to get through traffic among the commercial
development. And with that I will answer any other questions Council may have.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, questions on this item?
Bird: I have none at this point.
De Weerd: Okay. Do you want to go through all of these or you want to do them item
by item? Okay. Is there public testimony on this application? I didn't show anyone as
signing up, but is there any testimony desired?
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 29 of 81
Canning: Madam Mayor, you might ask the applicant.
De Weerd: Oh. Well., they didn't jump up and down either. That's right. I guess I do
have to ask the applicant, uh. Would the applicant like to come forward at this time.
I always thought it was so strange that no one was standing forward.
Larsen.: Madam Mayor, Members of the City Council, my name is Cornell Larsen.
Address is 210 Murray in Garden City. I'm here tonight representing the application on
this project. A lot of our comments that were -- are pretty well directed to all of the
projects. A lot of the staff conditions carry through from each project and they go on for
-- for the three hearings you have before you tonight, so I could certainly address those
now or at the end, but in this particular case I can take this one and, then, come back
again and repeat the testimony for each subsequent one after or I can do it once,
whatever you would prefer to -- to do.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: It would probably be helpful, Cornell, if you could do it -- the specifics on
each one --
Larsen: On each one?
De Weerd: -- as they are presented.
Larsen: Okay.
Zaremba: Thank you.
Larsen: Be happy to do that.
De Weerd: Okay.
Larsen: We have read the staff report and I also have -- just so you know, I have Chuck
Christensen here who is with me tonight with Quadrant and he may need to answer
some questions, if you have questions on platting, because I'm not sure I'm up to speed
on that, but I am on the rest of the project. So, he may need to come up and visit with
you if you have a question there. We have looked at the staff report and we wanted to
suggest some modifications to the conditions -- to the bullet points under the Verona
development agreement. First, I'd like to talk about the building materials. We
submitted many photos to staff and they had picked the ones that you have seen in the
staff report, but we actually submitted probably 30 or 40 photos. So, the photos that are
in the packet are not necessarily consistent with what our long range plan is. We would
like to have a little more flexibility in the materials and type of design of the buildings.
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 30 of 81
Those buildings were geared towards a smaller user and as we move through the
Verona project we may have the bigger buildings that may have one or two entries, may
have common areas, may have other things, so we would like to have some flexibility
on the types of materials that we might use in the building and, again, we did submit
quite a few photos and staff has selected some good looking buildings and we did some
upgraded buildings on that site and -- in an effort to attract some users to a new retail
area. What we would like to suggest is that we -- after the word four-sided architecture
we add the term where needed. There may be instances where we have a building that
may not need four-sided architecture, it may need -- may not need glass on all four
sides.. But it may need some decoration or some relief on all four sides. So, we'd like to
add the words where needed.. The stamp and decorative concrete, we'd certainly like to
use that selectively, not everywhere. We would like some flexibility on the roofing. If it
all has to be composite roofing and the roofing, that, in itself, won't work for us, because
we will probably have some flat roofs and some -- maybe even some metal accents.
So, we'd like you to consider changing that to also allow us to do some flat roofs and
maybe some metal accent roofing. As far as the elevations conforming to the photos
that we have submitted, again, we would just like to have a little more flexibility in those
particular buildings. I believe we submitted pictures from various projects, including
Silverstone, EI Dorado, Boise Research Center and a lot of the buildings in those
projects are fairly nice and would be fine in this facility as we move forward with this
development. I think staff recommended five -- a minimum of five buildings with no
building exceeding 50,000 square feet and we are okay with that change. What we
were trying not to do is get a whole bunch of small buildings on the site and we would
like to make sure that the minimum number of buildings does give us flexibility for size.
As you probably all know at Silverstone and EI Dorado and some of the other projects I
have been involved in, we have made many lot splits and many lot line adjustments.
Commercial development, unfortunately, is a little different than residential and we have
to adjust to the user and as a result of that we have to adjust the lot lines according to
some of the users we get. So, that reducing the minimum number of lots will help us to
-- required minimum number of lots will help us to make sure that we can adjust
accordingly. There was a comment on generally conforming to the concept plan. Sort
of as I just explained, as you know, I don't know that our concept plan for Silverstone
and EI Dorado has came out exactly or even close to what he had initially submitted, so
we want to make sure that you understand that it is a concept plan and we do need the
flexibility in order to move forward with a commercial development, so we'd like to have
you add some wording in there that may state that we must meet the requirements of
the current UDC, so that we can have a little bit of flexibility in the -- in the concept plan
and not be locked into it as it's currently designed. Then, the last comment we had was
on the connection to the adjacent property. We have made over time commitments to
the people that have bought in Bridgetower that we would try not to connect those
properties together for traffic reasons and for circulation through the project. We
understand connectivity, but we would -- we might suggest that we make a connection
with a pathway system and it might be in this general area right here. We have an
easement through there that we could certainly make a pathway connection that might
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 31 of 81
allow users from the adjacent property to come over into this -- into the facility itself and
use whatever buildings or services are in that project. Just a brief overview of the
master plan. We had potentially looked at a gas station facility here: We were
exploring a car wash here. We have some interest in a couple of drive-thru banks,
smaller fast food retail has looked at it. Up in this particular area we do have a
commitment for some medical. We thought we might be able to track down some
health club type uses on the site, potentially. So, those are some of the things we are
looking at on this site to maybe give you a feel for the overall concept that we are in
search of there. I believe in a couple of the earlier staff reports staff had suggested that
we move a couple of these buildings out to the street and we agree to do that, so we get
a little bit more connectivity to the street and a little bit more variety of design. I would
be happy to answer any questions if you have concerns or comments.
De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Bird.: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Bird.
Bird.: Cornell, with the material that we have listed in here, would that, in your opinion,
disallow tilt up buildings? As I read it, it would disallow tilt ups, which you said EI
Dorado and -- and you took a lot of your pictures out of EI Dorado and Silverstone and
Turnbull's project over there at BRC and most of those are tilt ups.
Larsen: Madam Mayor, Councilman Bird, we have done quite a few tilt up buildings, but
we have usually tried to create a variety of materials on those buildings from the rock to
stone to glass, heavy cornice, a lot of different elements to try to break those -- those
buildings up, so they didn't look like a concrete building and., in general, a lot of times we
put a textured coating on the building, so it looks more like a stucco project. So, we
would hope staff wouldn't eliminate that flexibility, as those have been fairly economical
buildings and pretty good energy buildings as well.
Bird: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Addifional questions?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Cornell, you suggested some additional words in one of the recommended
comments from staff on the DA and one of them was four-sided architecture as needed
and that always puts us on the spot, because I would interpret that as needed to be
determined by staff and you would interpret it as to be as needed as determined by you
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 32 of 81
or your client. So, I know we attempt to wordsmith these things to make them sound
and do what we all agree to do, but that doesn't do it for me. So, we need some better
words there, so you and/or your client and/or our staff have an expectation of what's
going to happen there. So, I don't have a problem with what you're saying that there is
some flexibility there, but when we just make a statement like that it gets us all in a
position of being really angry with one another.
Larsen: Madam Mayor, Councilman Rountree, I understand your concerns. I guess
where we are coming from is that, you know, on occasions we have retail buildings that
have backs to them and we really want to be careful about addressing the backs to
make sure that they look decent. We have other buildings that may have service
entries or locations where we need to get trucks up to them or for whatever reason and
we want to be careful that we don't get into trying to design a bunch of costly facades
that really is of no benefit to -- to the end user. In other words, we have double loaded
retail buildings with glass on both sides, it's very tough for a retail user to have a back
room, a store room, those kind of issues. So, we are concerned, we want the buildings
in the City of Meridian to look very nice, be first class. We do not want to get into a
situation where we are in disagreement with staff, but we wouldn't like to use all
buildings -- we try to design all buildings with four-sided architecture., but sometimes the
sites don't need to be as well done as maybe three of the sides on the building. And I'm
not sure that I have answered your question, but Iunderstand --
Rountree: Iunderstand your intent and I would ask Anna if she has maybe a better way
of stating that to where everybody knows what's going on.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilmember Rountree -- or
President Rountree, perhaps it could be for retail uses or those that require loading
areas, one facade may be screened in lieu of facade treatment or something like that.
Larsen: Yeah. We are open for that -- any kind of language on that that gives us some
flexibility where we have service equipment or vehicles or we may have an office
building, for example, that may have some generators on the ground, some equipment,
some things like that that we don't necessarily have to spend a lot of money on the
building, because we have got a lot of equipment right next to the building. So, we
would like a little flexibility on that and I think we could work with staff on some verbiage.
Rountree: Thank you. Are you comfortable with that, Anna?
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, yes, I am. I think the reason the
four-sided is in there is related to the concept plan. The concept plan does show very --
kind of open site plan with individual buildings that kind of would need fairly -- most of
them would require four-sided architecture the way it's currently drawn. I did want to
comment on the need for flexibility in the concept plan and I know that this is difficult for
the development community to commit to a concept plan and we are very mindful of
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 33 of 81
that. We do try to be very flexible in our interpretation of what's consistent with that
concept plan. Our problem is if you just tie it to the UDC there is nothing to say that
they couldn't come back with one building that's partitioned into five -- you know, one
massive building that's perhaps partitioned into five and that would be consistent with
their DA, but clearly not consistent with what was presented tonight. And I'm not trying
to say that Mr. Vareille will propose that, it's just that those are the kind of issues that
come up when we don't have something to fall back on that says, well, you kind of told
us you were going to distribute this around the site and not just have a sea of parking
and one large building. So, that's why we do ask that you tie it to the concept plan and
not just the provisions of the UDC. We commit to developers on a regular basis that we
will provide them every sort of flexibility that -- that we can afford to help them get
toward the end.
Larsen: Madam Mayor, may I address that for just a minute? We -- when we have a
building in a situation like this regarding the four-side architecture, a lot of times those
are tenant buildings and they may be loaded from two or three sides as a result of how
the building's leasing and so in a case where we have a building out on its own like that
surrounded by parking or if it's out -- one side is up next to the street and it has parking
on three sides, we assume that we are going to need four-sided architecture there in
order to attract tenants and make sure that they are all on a level plane. A lot of tenants
that lease space in buildings now they want to have their own separate identify and they
don't want to look different than the tenant next to them. So, it's important that we do
have the four-sided architecture on a lot of that product. The other item with regard to
Anna's comments on the concept plan, staff has been very flexible with us in the past on
allowing us to do things to the concept plan that generally conform to it and we have
had pretty good -- pretty good luck in working with them through those issues. Several
of things that Silverstone and EI Dorado have all had to be brought back in for staff to
look at it and it's gone fairly well.
Rountree: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Anything further, Council?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Zaremba.: I was just going to add to the same discussion that the flexibility in the roofing
materials, it would be the same discussion that we already had, but it's the same as the
facades.
De Weerd: Okay.
Larsen: Thank you.
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 34 of 81
De Weerd: Thank you.
Larsen: Now, if you have questions on platting, I would defer to Chuck. Did we have
any issues on -- I guess there is no issues on platting or any of the subdivision stuff, so
we are okay with those.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Larsen: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. At this point -- at this time we are taking testimony on Verona, the
commercial aspect. Is there anyone who would like to provide testimony on this
application? Okay. Seeing none, Anna, we will just go ahead and go to the next item.
Canning; Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I think you can take action, if you'd
like to, on the --
De Weerd,: Ten and eleven?
Canning: On ten and eleven and, then., we will come back to the development
agreement. I think all the changes that were requested were in the development
agreement, so you can make those modifications later if you want to take up that item
later.
De Weerd.: Okay. So, there is no public testimony on either Items 10 or 11? No further
comment by the applicant? Okay.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Council, any further information? Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I would like to discuss the subject of the drive aisle to the east. We had
asked the developers of the property to the east to provide more connectivity than they
intended to. They seem to have been resistant to that and, apparently, they have
conveyed that to the current applicant as well. But I feel the connectivity is important in
spite of the fact that the neighbor is not in favor of it and I would support the staffs
request for a drive aisle connection to the east. It's fine with me if it's on the lower
property or the southern most property. I'm supportive of the staffs request on that.
De Weerd: Council, any further comment on that?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 35 of 81
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Anna, show us where you -- where the staff kind of has plans to have an access
out.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the staff report says that each drive
aisle should have some sort of stub currently. I guess as a -- as a proffer, I would say,
you know, if we could at least get one, I think that that would be beneficial. And
somewhere on this southern lot would seem to make more sense, because you do have
residential up here. So, bringing that traffic any -- somewhere away from the residential
makes sense. It could come in anywhere along this -- that boundary.
Bird: Put up -- excuse me, Madam Mayor. Anna, put up a site for the whole area. Isn't
there a road that goes right up there?
Canning: No. It looks like that. It's an irrigation feature that's been tiled..
Bird: Oh, that's the irrigation deal? So, you want it to dump over in that --
Canning: This is the road. I'm sorry. That's a road..
Bird:: That's what I thought.
Canning; That's that road.
Bird: Yeah.
Canning: But, then, you have two lots to the east of it. So what we are trying to do is
get this office traffic to have across-access all along here, so that they are not having to
go onto the arterial roadway and it's very typical from commercial development to
commercial development we try and get cross-access where ever we can.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor. We did -- what we required of Selway is that they have a
western stub from the apartment section into what will be the commercial section and it
would make sense that that would connect to something on the eastern end of this
property.
Bird: Do they come down to the top of that, though? Does Selway come down to the --
north of this project?
Zaremba: It's not the entire thing, but it's about --
Bird,: I think it goes right across there, don't it?
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 36 of 81
Zaremba: Oh. I'm sorry. It ends at Apgar Creek.
Bird: Yeah. So, it goes -- it actually don't butt up to this project at all, so what we
required them to go to the west is up in that subdivision.
Canning: No. We required anorth-south street along the western edge of their
property --development.
Bird: Okay. North-south.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilmember Bird, you're correct,
this would not connect directly to Selway Apartments.
Zaremba: It would go through the other owner's commercial property.
Canning: Correct.
De Weerd.: So, will that other property have access out onto McMillan?
Canning: The preliminary plat for the office lots currently show I believe three access
points to McMillan.
De Weerd: Okay.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Bird: My concern is that -- is that North Goddard Creek Way road is -- you're dumping
everything out on that, why not just let it dump -- let this project dump out on that one
road between McMillan and Ten Mile? I don't know why you wanted to go out back
through there. And that other project's got all kinds of frontage along McMillan.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, as ACRD progresses in their efforts
we are seeing access controls at the arterial roadways. Possibility of more medians to
control that access where you have driveways versus public streets, we are really trying
to get folks to the public streets, so that they don't have to take the -- necessarily take
the arterial roadway. If, for some reason, you have a dentist here and you want to go
pick up milk at the -- the Rite-Aid there or something, you don't want to have to get out
onto the arterial roadway and that's always staffs goal in asking for the cross-access is
to relieve the congestion on the arterial roadways.
De Weerd: Would the applicant care to comment on this?
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 37 of 81
Larsen: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Cornell Larsen again.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Larsen: I was just curious. Anna, d'id you say there was a road that would just come
down along that boundary of the property?
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Mr. Larsen, it's not right along the
boundary, it's a couple hundred feet, probably, a stub. It's about a -- maybe a quarter of
the way over.
Larsen: Madam Mayor, I guess our biggest concern is just the -- I guess our biggest
concern was just that the residents that have purchased from Bridgetower in the past
have been really concerned about that connection and the flow-through traffic and they
have not desired that and we were here expressing their wishes tonight as well, so --
De Weerd: So, these are representations that were provided through your
neighborhood meeting, then?
Larsen: Through the owner, as he's developed these parcels, he's trying to not allow
this through traffic or has indicated to the neighbors that he would prefer not to have
that traffic through there and -- as it feels like it does end up being a detriment to his
neighborhood... And the applicant has indicated to me that they have also discussed that
at the neighborhood meetings.
De Weerd: Okay. Any questions, Council?
Bird.: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Larsen: Thank you.
De Weerd: Council?
Rountree: Madam Mayor. Anna, would you put up the site plan.
Canning: That one or this one?
Rountree: Okay. So, on the eastern boundary of the two commercial lots, I don't see
any provision for a fence or landscaping or whatever. If we are talking about access or
no access, it seems to me if there is no access there ought to be some kind of a barrier
there.
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 38 of 81
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, we -- they seem to be depicting a
five foot landscape buffer for the parking lot.
Rountree: Is that indicated on the plat?
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, no, because we don't usually put just
parking lot landscaping on the plat that the -- landscape easements that we general
show on the plats are either street buffers or land use buffers. So, this wouldn't be one
of those times that we ask for that. It would allow a little more flexibility in the design of
the building.
Rountree: So, I guess what I'm getting at -- I'm confused on the landscaping
requirements. If this was an industrial site it would be required to be landscaped with a
buffer.
Canning: Yes. They would have to have a buffer to residential uses. We are not -- it's
an unusual situation. It's zoned R-8, but it's approved for L-O, so we tend to treat it as if
it's nonresidential use.
Rountree: Okay.
Canning: So, we did not require the land used buffer to those properties, because they
are approved for office uses.
Rountree.: Okay. Thank you.
De Weerd: But how about on the north side of that? Isn't that residential?
Canning.: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, yes, it is. I suspect that the staff
report already notes that there is a land use buffer required there. I can verify. But
there is a land use buffer required there.
De Weerd: Okay.
Larsen: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Larsen: Cornell Larsen again. There is a planted buffer along there already currently
existing.
De Weerd: Oh. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Anything further, Council? If there is
nothing further, I would entertain a motion to close the public hearings on Items 10, 11
and 12.
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 39 of 81
Bird: No. No. Not 12.
Rountree: ten and eleven.
De Weerd: Ten and eleven.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Rountree: I move that we close public hearings on Items 10 and 1.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd.: Okay. I have a motion and a second to close the public hearings on Items
10 and 11. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIES: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Anna, on the rezone, it had nothing to do with the development agreement, so all
we are doing there is going from a minimum of nine to five; is that right?
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the DA is associated with the
rezone, but you could take action on the rezone without worrying about the DA
agreement at this time.
Bird.: I thought the DA come down on the 12. Maybe I misunderstood..
Canning: Correct. So, the rezone -- we can for the development, because there is a
rezone application before you, but the two aren't --
Bird,: Where would you prefer it?
Canning: It needs to be in the DA discussion.
Bird: In what?
Canning: The DA discussion.
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 40 of 81
Rountree: Item 12.
Bird.: In Item 12.
Canning: Yes, sir.
Bird: Right. Okay. So, RZ is just the rezone from five to -- or from nine to five. And
from C-G -- or R-8 to C-G and L-O; right?
Canning: Correct. The lafter. Yes.
Bird: Okay. Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move that we approve RZ 07-017, the rezone of 5.29 acres from R-8 to C-G and
L-O zone for Verona Commercial by Primeland Development Group and to include all
staff, applicant, and public testimony.
Rountree: Second..
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to approve Item 10. Is there any
discussion or clarification needed? Seeing none, Madam Clerk, will you, please, call
roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, absent.
MOTION CARRIES: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd: Okay. Item 11.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve PP 07-022, preliminary plat approval for Verona Commercial
by Primeland Development Group, LLC.
Rountree: Second..
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to approve Verona, Item 11.
Discussion?
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 41 of 81
Zaremba: Madam Mayor, again, this is a question of where is it appropriate. Would it
be the preliminary plat where we decide whether there will be access to the east or not?
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, if we knew -- Councilmember
Zaremba, if we knew exactly where it needed to be on the plat we could, but I don't think
-- staff didn't have that specificity at this time. We'd like to leave the developer that
ability to move it, so it would be better as a DA provision.
Zaremba: Okay. Thank you.
De Weerd.: Okay. Any further discussion? Hearing none, Madam Clerk, will you,
please, call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, absent.
MOTION CARRIES: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd.: Okay. Items 13 and 14.
Rountree: Twelve.
De Weerd: Did you want to do the DA's at the end of all of these?
Canning: Yes, ma'am.
Bird: We are going to move 12?
De Weerd: Yes. We are going to consider it at the end of all of these discussions..
Twelve and fifteen we will consider after Item 17.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, one of the things I forgot to mention
when I get to the last presentation is part of the reason we are asking you to defer on
those, the reason they are still intertwined is because although we proposing new DA's
for these projects that are before you tonight, the existing DA remains for the properties
that are not under not the applicant's control. So, that's why they are -- still go on. So,
they are just -- the only complicated thing about this is the development agreements
and so they --
De Weerd: The only complicated.
Bird: Don't confuse me.
Canning: I'm sorry. Okay. We are going to move onto -- we are going to move onto
Bridgetower Crossing Office. This is -- we switched roads on this one. We have moved
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 42 of 81
over about a mile to the east. It's the southwest corner of Linder and McMillan. This
project is 12.64 acres and the existing zoning is R-4. The applications before you
tonight are a rezone and preliminary plat. They are asking for 11 nonresidential lots,
which would be -- and, actually, 12 buildings as shown on the submitted concept plan.
The Comprehensive Plan designation for this property is office, reflecting its planned
development approval in years past. We shift aspects here, so north is going to the --
the left side of the page -- or the screen. The Planning Commission has recommended
a new development agreement specifically for this area and the discussion with regard
to the materials is the same as the previous one and the elevations are the same as
previously proposed. The development -- the other site specific comment would be that
the development of the property shall generally comply, as determined by the planning
director, with the concept site plan submitted as you see before you. Minimum of --
there is the concept plan. Minimum of eight buildings with no one building exceeding
15,000 square feet shall be constructed on the lots associated with the Bridgetower
Crossing Office Subdivision. The maximum allowable nonresidential square footage for
this development shall be 137,640 square feet. The Commission recommended
approval at their January 3rd, 2008, Public Hearing. Chuck Christensen spoke in favor
of the application. No one spoke in opposition or commented or provided written
testimony. Key issues of discussion by the Commission were tiling the Settler's Canal
along the northern property boundary, which, again, is toward the left of your page -- of
your screen. Limiting the number of access points on Linder Road. In the key
Commission changes to staff recommendation were the portion of the Settler's Canal
along McMillan Road and west of Bellagio Way is not expected to be tiled. So, that
would be this portion. Outstanding issues for the Council -- in the Bridgetower Crossing
DA modification section it reads that to remove the properties shown in Exhibit C and it
says pages nine to 14. It just should say pages seven to 14. That's just clerical edit
that we would ask Council to put on the record. With that, I will answer any questions
Council may have with regard to this application.
De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Zaremba: In the section where the waterway would not be tiled is there still -- it looks
like this is depicting sidewalk. Am I correct that there is sideway there?
Canning: I believe so. It's already platted as residential, as you can see from the --
from the photo. So, I -- I'm sure the applicant will address that in his testimony.
Zaremba: Okay. Thank you.
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 43 of 81
De Weerd: Okay. We will ask that of the applicant. Okay. Anything else for staff at
this point? Okay. Would the applicant like to comment?
Larsen: Madam Mayor, Members of the City Council, my name is Cornell Larsen,
address is 210 Murray Street, Garden City. This under the development agreement had
the same bullet points as we had on the previous application.. However, we wanted to
suggest a couple of modifications on that as well and, then, in addition to the -- I'll give
you a little insight on the Settlers Canal. We tiled a portion of this to widen the road and
to have access at this point. The Settlers Canal requested that we not the the rest of it.
There is a walkway, a fence way, and., then, an open ditch, I believe, along the -- along
the boundary of McMillan. And so that's what currently exists there at this point in time.
Under the bullet points in the development agreement we had already mentioned are
concerns about the materials. Second bullet point was the elevations. Under the third
bullet point it required a minimum of eight building lots and we were going to request
that we'd like to see that made five building lots and when we met with staff on the
Verona project we had talked to them about 25 percent coverage being kind of a normal
coverage that we shoot for on the -- on the projects and so that's how they got to the
137,650 number that's in your report. We'd like to see if you would consider that going
to 155,00 square feet, instead of the 137,650. And. part of the reason for doing that is
some of the buildings that we do actually have a little better coverage than 25 percent.
We get a little better land use and some buildings that we do, don't, and it sort of
depends on the use. For example, a medical facility we may put quite a bit more
parking on it, because of their use and the number of patients they have coming and
going, whereas an office building that may have a lot of offices and have very little
parking., we could actually get a little more coverage on it. So, we'd like to see that
number potentially up in the 155 range. And., then, on the last bullet point it would be
our same concerns, we would like you to make sure that you know that this is a concept
plan and there will be changes to it as a result of the type of project that it is. And
would be happy to answer any questions if you have those.
De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Bird.: I have none.
De Weerd: I just -- so, you want a minimum of five?
Larsen: Minimum of five lots.
De Weerd: And no one --
Larsen.: Five buildings. Excuse me.
De Weerd: Buildings.
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 44 of 81
Larsen: Five buildings.
De Weerd: And no one building exceeding --
Larsen: Fifteen thousand square feet is okay. That's what staff had asked for.
De Weerd: Okay. And., then, you have 155,000 square feet.
Larsen: For the total square footage.
De Weerd: Okay.
Larsen: That gives us a little bit of flexibility, we can only get on there what we can, but
if we are locked into 25, we can't -- percent coverage we may not be able to exceed that
on a given site and we want to be sure we have got a little flexibility.
De Weerd: Okay.
Larsen: And I believe staff does have some flexibility in the ordinance, too. I think they
can have a little flexibility as well.
De Weerd: Okay. So, Council, anything further? Thank you.
Larsen: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. This is a Public Hearing. I would accept public testimony on Items
13 and 14. Okay. Seeing none. Council, any further information needed?
Rountree: Madam Mayor. Anna, if you would put the aerial back up, I just need to --
and., then, if you would -- one of the items for discussion was minimize access on
Linder. Are we talking about the need for this particular street?
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, because that one lines up directly
across the street I don't think it was, but --
Rountree: I think they both apparently line up, so --
Canning: Yeah. I'd have to -- I would have to peruse the minutes. I'm not sure. This
cushion may have actually been that they are consolidating the access on those public
streets and it may have been more of a positive comment than the way it appears in the
bulleted items.
Rountree: Okay.
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 45 of 81
Canning: And, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I don't have any concerns with
the changes proposed by the applicant.
Bird: Thank you.
De Weerd.: Okay. If there isn't anything further --
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes., Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Having heard staff and applicant testimony and given the opportunity to the
public to testify, I move we close the public hearings on Items 13 and 14.
Bird.: Second..
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to close the public hearings on Items
13 and 14. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRCES: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Canning: Okay. Any discussion?
Zaremba: And, again, I would clarify that the changes that Mr. Larsen mentioned would
be appropriate to the DA motion later; right? In that case, Madam Mayor, I move that
we approve RZ 07-018, request for a rezone, and at the same time approve PP 07-023,
request for preliminary plat approval., both relating to Bridgetower Crossing Office.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to approve Items 13 and 14. Any
discussion? Hearing none --
Zaremba: And part of the motion was to include all staff comments and --
Rountree: I agree.
De Weerd: Okay. Madam Clerk.
Roll-Call.: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, absent.
MOTION CARRfES: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 46 of 81
De Weerd: Okay. And, finally, Items 16 and 17.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, we are back over toward the Verona
side of life and we have Bridgetower Crossing Commercial and it is located on the east
side of Ten Mile Road and approximately 400 feet south of McMillan Road. It's 7.37
acres, the preliminary plat is, and the existing zoning is C-G and., again, a residential
designation of R-4. The applications before you tonight are a rezone and preliminary
plat and a development agreement, of course. The highlights of the proposed
development are eight nonresidential building lots and one other lot with two to seven
buildings as shown on the submitted concept plan. So, we have quite a few for this
one. Let me tell you what the recommended DA provisions are and., then, we will get
into some of the issues for the end again. Again, the same quality of materials, same
elevations, same concept plan comments. Minimum of four buildings with no one
building exceeding 33,725 square feet shall be constructed on lots within this
subdivision and the maximum allowable nonresidential square footage for the
development shall be 80,260 square feet. Again, our aspect has shifted. I think north is
to the right side of the screen now. It's still to the left? Okay. I'm sorry. Now, they are
back at the top.. North is back at the top. So, these were the concept plans submitted
with the application. The applicant's preference is shown to the left there. The concept
plan that the Planning and Zoning Commission approved was kind of a hybrid of a
couple of those, so this is the Planning and Zoning recommended plan. The Planning
and Zoning Commission did recommend approval at their January 3rd Public Hearing.
Chuck Christensen spoke in favor of the application. No one spoke in opposition, nor
commented, nor provided written testimony. Key issues of discussion by the
Commission forwarding the project to City Council without the Ada County Highway
District staff report. Tiling of the White Drain along the southern boundary of the project.
The combination of concept plan one and three to allow the larger building pads north of
Capris Street and transition to smaller buildings south of Capris Street and that's the
concept plan you see before you. Key Commission changes to staff recommendation.
They didn't require two mains to Locust Grove within the Public Works Department.
And the concept plan was -- as shown before you tonight was recommended forward.
So, the outstanding issues -- the applicant is very concerned about this concept plan as
recommended by Planning and Zoning Commission. They are working on a project
immediately across the street to the west. They are re-thinking the approved
commercial project to the west of this site and that would have a number of smaller
uses as shown on the recommended site plan for the south of Capris Street. So, they
are concerned that these will compete with the project they are working on across the
street. The applicant prefers the concept plan that allows the one larger tenant, as
noted as the applicant's preference. When the Council acts on this one for the
development agreement, you will need to specify which concept plan or plans should be
included in the DA. All of them work to some extent and all could be included or they --
the Council can select one, if you would like. And with that I'll answer any questions you
may have about this project.
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 47 of 81
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions?
Zaremba: Not at this time.
Rountree: Not right now.
De Weerd: Would the applicant like to comment?
Larsen: Madam Mayor, Members of the City Council, my name is Cornell Larsen, 210
Murray Street, Garden City. I'd like to take a minute and maybe walk you through this
project a little more. If Anna would be so kind as to go back to kind of the overall aerial
that shows the zoning. That one would be good.. Thank you. We've -- as Anna, said,
we have been looking at developing a project here, as well as up in this particular area
and when we started through this project over here we were trying to keep the White
Drain open, use that as an amenity for the back side of some buildings that would be
along a streetscape and they would be smaller buildings, maybe in the same form as
Ballen Crossing, we would be looking for some smaller tenants, a little bit more of a
streetscape design and as we started looking at that project and, then, realizing that we
had a good deal of product in this area that was small and we felt like it would be
advantageous to the overall area to have a couple of larger sites that we could use for a
-- for example, a garden store or an office store, craft store, something like that that
would allow us -- maybe even a hardware store that would allow us to have a larger
user in that particular area that may benefit the residences. So, when we picked the
larger buildings for these sites we were looking at a couple of things. There is a fairly
large 100 foot landscape barrier between these residences and the roadway that
separates these buildings. I believe the Bridgetower waterfall and water features in this
area and, then, it wraps up clear up into here. So, we felt like that with that extended
buffer, with the street buffer, we could potentially support a few larger users on that site
without being detrimental to the adjacent residential area. And with what we were doing
in the proposed adjacent property that we will have before you in the near future -- and
we have shown that concept to staff, they have looked at -- at our proposed overall
project, and we felt like that we needed some -- some bigger builders. Now, we did -- at
staffs request submit three or four different concept plans, but the one we preferred was
the two building concept. And so with that I could go through the bullet points again on
the development agreement. That's kind of how we got to where we are on that
particular project. As far as tiling the White Drain, the White Drain -- we are finding the
same situation we are in Settlers, they wanted us to leave that open and we have had
that before the Planning and Zoning Commission and City Council before and as a
request we are continuing to leave that open, we would like to do so. We hope to be
able to utilize that as an amenity as we move over onto the other project, as I mentioned
before, so -- but under bullet point -- the first bullet point we would, again, pretty much
the same comments as we had on Verona regarding the building materials. Bullet point
two, same comments on the elevation, so we'd like to see a little flexibility in the
elevations. Minimum buildings, we would like to change that from what it is down to
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 48 of 81
two, I think, would be acceptable to us for minimum buildings. We are okay with the
size of the 33,725. And, again, we'd like to have a little more flexibility than 25 percent
coverage and would like to suggest 90,000 square feet for the development. And, then,
once again, our concerns about the concept plan that we have flexibility in that. And
with that I would be happy to answer any questions you might have.
De Weerd: Council, any questions? Mr. Zaremba?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor. I didn't do the math on the other ones, but this one is fairly
simple. If you have two buildings that don't exceed 33,700, you're not going to be
anywhere near 90,000 --
Larsen: Correct.
Zaremba: -- square feet.
Larsen: Correct.
Zaremba: So, you're saying that you may possibly put three buildings there and that
might be up to 90.
Larsen: Correct. Madam Mayor, Councilman Zaremba that would be correct. We
could put three buildings on there. We could -- we could work around the 90,000
number or the 33,000 number on the two sites. So, it does give us flexibility and we
may only have 33,000 on each site as it develops out., as we know what the user is and
know what the parking requirements are. But we were willing to live with it. The down
side, too, if that occurred, we just needed to -- we thought we needed to have some
larger users there for marketability and services in the area. Thank you.
De Weerd: Anything further, Council?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay.
Larsen: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. This is a Public Hearing. Is there any public testimony
on Item 16 or 17? Okay. Staff, any additional information?
Canning: No, ma'am.
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 49 of 81
De Weerd: Council, any further information needed?
Rountree: Madam Mayor, just a question for Anna. On the photos that were submitted
and apparently we just saw a portion of them, were there any buildings of the magnitude
that have been described here for these two presented for consideration?
Canning: I'll have to check the file, sir.
Rountree: And maybe Cornell has one in his portfolio. I don't know.
Larsen: Madam Mayor, President Rountree, We took several pictures of buildings out
in Silverstone and EI Dorado and a lot of those buildings are in the 20 to 40 thousand
square foot range as their average size, but we do have smaller ones, obviously, but a
lot of the commercial office buildings or -- and, actually, a couple of the retail buildings
along the street are in the 18 to 20 thousand range..
De Weerd: Yeah. I looked through my packet and (couldn't --
Bird: I didn't see it.
De Weerd: I only saw the ones that were --
Rountree: Give me a name on a couple of those, so I can have a point of reference, if
you would, please.
Larsen: Let's see. The building that is called EI Dorado One Retail Building, which is at
the corner of Bonito and Eagle Road is about 21,000 square feet. Fairly good sized
building. The building that is in Silverstone, which would be right at the gate on
Overland Road., is about 40,000 square foot building. That is on what I'd call the
intersection of Silverstone and Overland. It would be on the southwest side of Overland
and it was the very first building that went up in that project.
De Weerd: Who's in that?
Larsen: I know Pioneer Title was in it for awhile, but they have moved out. I'm not sure
who's -- they kind of blend together after awhile.
De Weerd: Ooh, I don't think they would like to hear that.
Bird: Him they do.
Larsen: Yeah.
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 50 of 81
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, anticipating -- or I suspect that
Councilmember Rountree is asking for examples so that we can reference them in the
DA. Maybe one thing we can do is you do act on the DA separately from tonight. You
approve it separately. We could work with the applicant to get additional photos to
include in the DA and just make sure we point them out to Council before you approve
that development agreement.
Rountree: Thank you.
Larsen: Madam Mayor, President Rountree, another building that might be a good
example would be an Office Max is about 25,000 square feet. GI Joe's was about
50,000 square feet over in Centre Pointe.. That might give you another feel for scale.
Rountree: I have a sense of scale. I don't have a sense of the architecture at that
scale.
Larsen: No.
De Weerd: Those two examples of scale are kind of scary on the residential side.
Larsen: Yeah.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Just in trying to mull over the concept plan that the Planning and Zoning
Commission moved forward with a recommendation, the difference seems to be in the
southern portion that they were liking the buildings closer to the street. I can see the
practicality of that with the smaller buildings, but would it be appropriate to have a single
large building move forward like that? Would you do that or would you want to set that
back?
Larsen: Madam Mayor, Councilman Zaremba, we would probably prefer to set that
back. We'd like to keep the parking away from the residential area, probably keep the
back of the building with some -- some four-sided architecture, if you will, but try to keep
traffic and noise off of the side that would be facing the residential area.
De Weerd: Anything further, Council?
Rountree: I have nothing.
De Weerd: Okay.
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 51 of 81
Larsen: Thank you very much for all the trips and listening.
Rountree: Got your exercise.
De Weerd: Good exercise.
Bird: You're not done yet.
De Weerd: If there is no further public testimony or staff comments, Council., I'd
entertain a motion to close the Public Hearing on Items 16 and 17.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird..
Bird: I move we close the Public Hearing on RZ 07-022 and PP 07-026.
Zaremba: Second..
De Weerd: I have a motion to close Items 16 and 17. All those in favor say aye. All
ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIES: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd: Okay. Discussion or comments?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Hearing no discussion, I move we approve RZ 07-022 and PP 07-026 with
applicant and staff comment.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second. Council -- oh, is it in the DA that you would
want the specifics on the buildings?
Bird.: Yes.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Hearing none,
Madam Clerk.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, absent.
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 52 of 81
MOTION CARRIES: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd: Okay.
Canning: Madam Mayor, on the remaining two items, what I would recommend is that
can guide you -- kind of facilitate a discussion on the five development agreements that
are really before you tonight and, then, you could make a motion based on staff,
applicant, and public comments.
Bird: We need the help.
Canning: I think the first issue of discussion for the Council and Mayor is are you in
favor of removing the properties that you have discussed tonight from the existing
Verona and Bridgetower Crossing development agreements.
Rountree: I believe so.
De Weerd: It looks like it.
Canning: Okay.
Rountree: Do we need a motion to that effect or --
Canning: Well, it's -- as long as --
Rountree: We already moved to include that with the plats.
Canning.: Pardon, sir?
Rountree: We already made a motion to essentially, approve that when we approved
the plats.
Canning; It's just a development agreement discussion. These were the -- the issues
that were raised in the miscellaneous applications before you tonight. So, the first one
is a larger one of -- we are just recommending that you get new DAs for these and just
remove them from the existing development agreements. So, it sounds like there is
consensus that that's the appropriate approach to take.
Rountree: I believe so.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 53 of 81
Zaremba: I would say yes, but just to confirm, the old DA still applies to all the
remaining property?
Canning; Yes, sir, it does.
Zaremba: That we have not specifically talked about tonight.
Canning: Correct. They will remain in effect and we will continue to try and get those
rezoned from R-4 to an appropriate commercial designation. But it will remain in effect
for those properties.
Zaremba: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay.
Canning: Okay. The second issue -- I think these are the general provisions that are
common to all three development agreements that I'm anticipating you'll want the same
treatment for all three DA's, but if you don't, just, please, let me know. One was the
building materials. What I -- and at this point I'm not sure if you want me to summarize
what I have heard or if one of the Council members wants to recommend language with
regard to these items.
De Weerd: Council, would you like Anna to paraphrase what she's heard?
Rountree: That would be good.
Canning: With regard to building materials, I have heard that stamped decorative
concrete is expected, but not with every project. But it is -- selectively I wasn't quite
sure what to do with that, so it sounds like it should be an accent within the
development pattern.
Rountree: Madam Mayor -- and a point on Anna. The way that paragraph reads to me
is that these are suggested items, but not limited to. So, if they use a combination of
these, it doesn't mean they need to use all of them, but these are the kinds of materials
that represent the high quality materials we would expect.
Canning: Okay.
Rountree: So, I don't know that I would interpret that that they have to have that.
Canning: With that clarification, then, I think all we need to do is add flat roofs and
accent metal roofing or metal roofs, as an example, within that list.
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 54 of 81
Zaremba: I would agree with that, but, then, add the end of the sentence that additional
variations may be approved by the director.
Canning: And I believe it already says that. It says including, but not limited to.
Zaremba: Okay.
Canning: So, I think that gives that kind of flexibility.
Zaremba: My point was to decide who it is that's going to decide.
Canning: Ah. As determined by the director?
Zaremba: Yes.
Canning: Excuse my pause. Sorry. With regard to four-sided architecture, I believe
that the discussion was for retail development, one side may not need full facade
treatments if there is screening for loading areas. With regard to elevations, the
applicant will submit -- or the applicant and staff will work on examples of larger
buildings to include in the development agreement and those will be shown to Council
prior to approval of the DA?
Rountree: Okay.
Zaremba: Works for me.
Canning: And the last one was with regard to the concept plan. I believe that the
applicant has the flexibility he's looking for. I understand that -- the hesitancy on the
part of the development community on just relying on the fact that I'm going to be good
to them. I mean I know that's difficult. But I don't know if Council wants to make a
statement with regard to the need for flexibility in concept plans or not. That's -- that's
something I -- I feel it's there, but if you want to make a statement with regard to that,
that's fine, too.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: We are trusting them in building materials, so they can trust you; right?
Yes.
Zaremba: I would just express an opinion that a concept plan is a concept, it isn't
necessarily etched to be exactly the same, but there is some point at which a concept
isn't being followed. If they are proposing offices and., them, some day they come in
and say, well, we want this to be an airport, they clearly haven't followed the concept.
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 55 of 81
But if it's just a different kind of office or a different kind of retail or a different shape, that
still, to me, within the concept.
De Weerd: Anna, maybe you can kind of give a summary of the things that -- that you
really look for that would be a substantial difference.
Canning: Certainly, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. I typically look at the
relationship of the buildings to the surrounding property owners, if they have changed
significantly. If there was, you know, 50 feet of landscaping and now there is five feet of
landscaping and a hundred foot concrete block wall with no fenestration on it. That
would be a significant change in my book, because it affects the surrounding property
owners significantly. If they took -- if the concept plan were for a distributed max'ing of
individual buildings and they came in with a strip mall that would be something where I
would call their bluff, basically. Well, not call their bluff, but say, no, I won't approve this
and they'd have to appeal it up to you and I have done that before. So, those are kind
of the big scale changes that we are looking for. If, for some reason the access points
change significantly or the traffic flow was significantly different and it's an impact to
surrounding property owners, I would probably bring -- raise concerns with that as well.
So, those are typically the things I am looking for. With regard to the number of
buildings and the square foot and the overall square foot, those are spelled out in more
concrete terms and there is certainly flexibility there. I mean you can't state it as a
concept plan and have only two buildings. I mean it's not going to work. Or the ones
where they have ten lots and asked for the flexibility of five buildings. Obviously, there
is flexibilities open to those parameters as well.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I just was going to comment to what Anna was saying.
There is a great deal of latitude that we allow the director. I think in approving a concept
plan of this nature there is a lot of trust on both sides of this that what we want and what
you want will be accomplished. It's when that trust is violated that things really get
uncomfortable on both sides. I agree with Anna, what she explained in terms of
conceptually we see a smattering of buildings on this particular property. If you want to
twist and turn them or whatever, as long as you don't put five Walgreens on your
property, I'm fine with it.
De Weerd: Probably even if you don't put two. Maybe even one.
Rountree: So -- but, you know, there is a lot of give and take with these things that are
somewhat nebulous. The other extreme, I guess, is that we could require that this be
platted and engineered and we'd know what the building -- each building is going to look
like and who is going to be in it and that doesn't do these guys any good. It doesn't do
the community any good, because we don't know what we are going to get, then, either.
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 56 of 81
So, I think as long as we can play together well we will be just fine and our trust and our
mutual respect remains high and I think in this particular application it's there.
De Weerd: Well, this applicant has had a great track record, so --
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Zaremba: I would support that comment. The only issue I have with being too liberal is
that it is possible for the applicant sell it to somebody who we might not have quite as
good a relationship with and that has burned us a couple times before.
Rountree: That's why we are getting a little more specific all the time.
De Weerd..: We know his address.
Canning: All right. Madam Mayor, moving on to the other -- on the new Verona DA, the
two access -- the two issues I heard were reducing from nine buildings to five buildings
and, then, the Council needs to address the cross-access issue.
Zaremba: I'm in favor of the access.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, having visited a community in southern California recently
and a very upscale community, I was very disappointed at seeing -- I was excited about
the access control that went on in the community. I was excited about the signage that
was not allowed in the community. But what I found very disappointing is that as the
traveling public that you would be controlled accessed into a rather large parking lot and
see a retail or commercial establishment that you wanted to get to and you couldn't,
because there was no cross-access. Every -- almost every store or every site you
drove into you were contained to that particular development and all the other
developments around it, you either had to go in it right in or right out or find an access to
an arterial and go around the block and get to it. So, I strongly support cross-access in
these kinds of situations and I know it may not happen, but I think the DA ought to be
written in such a way as that it be investigated and be required to be dealt with not only
with this parcel and the future development of the one adjacent to it. Unfortunately, they
are not occurring at the same time. I don't know how we can tell them to put your cross-
access at this point out into a vacant field when we don't know what kind of retail and
what kind of concept we are going to see next door. But I think when that happens we
need to have these parties come together and understand that they are going to allow
cross-access amongst one another, so people can get from their establishments to the
other ones and from the other one to theirs without having to go on an arterial. So,
support it, but I don't know how you word it when you -- we have a preliminary plat, but
we don't have specifics, we have a concept. We have an adjacent use that's a similar
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 57 of 81
use, but no concept or preliminary plat, so it's really tough to say you're going to put it
here..
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, President Rountree, typically what
we do is at the time of the CZC approval we just require that they get to -- who's ever in
first, basically, selects where the cross-access goes. If you want to apply it to the
southern lot or the north and south lot, we would just get it when they come in for a
building permit and just say, you know, you can put it where you want, but -- and., then,
the next guy just hooks up to it.
Rountree: Well, my preference would be the southern lot, but if that doesn't fit with their
concept, then, where they decide to put it I'm okay with that as well. But I would think
one would be sufficient.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other comment?
Canning: Okay. Moving on to the new Bridgetower Crossing Office. The amendments
to the DAs I heard there were from -- requiring eight buildings down to five, from limiting
square feet to 137,650, bumping that up to 155,000. And, then, this was the one that
has the edits that instead of pages nine to 14, it should be pages seven of 14. And
don't think any of those were contested or -- those were all fine with staff, if Council is
okay with those amendments as well.
De Weerd.: Okay.
Canning: And finally --
De Weerd: Hold on. Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: And we are okay with them not tiling the -- what was it, Settlers?
Bird: And the Settlers Canal.
Rountree: Settlers Canal.
Canning: I believe that's the way it's currently written, so -- and, then, moving on,
finally, to new Bridgetower Crossing Commercial. The changes I heard were four
buildings down to two buildings and -- or a minimum of two buildings and instead of
80,260 square feet, they'd like a maximum cap of 90,000 square feet.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Bird..
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 58 of 81
Bird: Anna, what number is the MI for the Bridgetower Crossing Commercial? Twelve
is for Verona -- Verona and 15 is just Bridgetower Crossing Office.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the whole reason we started off by
opening all of these is because the DAs are very entertained at this point. So, what we
are suggesting is that a new DA be developed for the commercial areas that's currently,
actually, part of Bridgetower DA, I believe.
Bird: With the south -- the southwest corner of the Ten Mile and McMillan you want a
new DA for it completely?
Canning: Yes. We want new DAs for all of the projects.
Bird.: Well, new DAs for all of them, but we have already got two and this other one
intertwined.
Canning: And, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, that's why I suggested that the
Council approval just reflect all of the conversation that went on, because it's, really, the
same for both miscellaneous applications that are before you tonight, since they are
both --one's just -- they are all tied together.
De Weerd: Okay.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd.: Yes.
Zaremba: And on this one there was a discussion of which concept plan we would --
De Weerd: Oh, yes, sir. Thank you. I forgot that. Yeah. The concept plan. One, two,
three or all four or --
Zaremba: Hybrid or not or --
Canning: Right.
Zaremba: Frankly, I don't have an opinion.
Bird.: Frankly, I'm for whatever the market allows them to do.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, if we have a minimum of two buildings that it seems to me to
incorporate all the concepts that have been presented -- I think there was one that didn't
seem to do much for me and it was the one where the -- the middle one where it
seemed to be -- I have a tough time figuring out how you're going to get around that
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 59 of 81
middle one. Get in and out of those parking spaces between those buildings. So,
would think either the one on the left or the one on the right work forme.
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba.: I agree with Councilman Rountree, the middle one is not attractive or
probably not good circulation, but would we want to allow them the flexibility to choose
version one or version three or the lower portion of one or the other, just exclude
version two, to mix the versions. Is that too much flexibility?
Rountree: I think they have got that flexibility if either one of them are okay.
Canning: Okay. Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Those were all
the issues, I believe., with regard to the two miscellaneous applications.
De Weerd,: Okay. Those two public hearings are open. Applicant comments? No?
Any public testimony? Okay. Council, any further information needed? If not, I'd
entertain a motion to close the public hearings on Item 12 and 15.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba; Having heard all staff and applicant testimony and giving the public the
opportunity to testify, I move that we close the public hearings on Items 12 and 15.
Rountree: Second..
De Weerd.:: Okay. I have a motion and a second to close the public hearings on items
12 and 15. All those in favor say aye. Okay. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRfES: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Canning: If there isn't any further discussion, I would entertain a motion on these two
items.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd:: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I move that we approve MI 07-013 and MI 07-014 and the related
development agreements that will relate to Verona Commercial, Bridgetower Crossing
Office, and Bridgetower Crossing Commercial with all of the changes that the staff has
just read to us.
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 60 of 81
De Weerd: Okay. Any discussion?
Rountree: I have none.
Bird.: Did we have a second?
De Weerd: Did we have a second?
Rountree: No.
De Weerd.: Yes.
Bird: Are you going to second it?
Rountree: Second it.
Bird: Okay. Discussion now. Did that -- did that include the applicant's testimony,
public testimony also?
Zaremba: Yes.
De Weerd: But it was clarified in the questioning that Anna walked Council through.
Zaremba: I believe the applicant's response was they didn't have any changes to what
Director Canning was --
Bird: Well, they had already testified earlier is what they have testified on, is what I was
getting at. To include that.
De Weerd: Okay. Anything further?
Rountree: I have nothing.
De Weerd.: Madam Clerk, will you, please, call roil.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, absent.
MOTION CARRIES: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd.: Okay.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, thanks. Sorry that one was a little
convoluted, but thank you for sticking with us on that.
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 61 of 81
Item 18: Public Hearing: RZ 07-019 Request for a Rezone of 0.602 of an acre
from I-L to C-G zone for Rockin KB Saloon by Patrick McKeegan - 3163
East Lanark:
Item 19; Public Hearing: CUP 07-019 Request for Conditional Use Permit
approval of a drinking establishment in a proposed C-G zone for Rockin
KB Saloon by Patrick McKeegan - 3163 East Lanark:
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Items 18 and 19 are public hearings on RZ 07-019 and
CUP 07-019. I will open these two public hearings with staff comments.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is the Rockin KB Saloon project.
It's located at 3163 East Lanark Street on the southwest corner of Eagle Road and
Lanark. The applications before you tonight include a rezone and conditional use
approval. The highlights of the proposed development are the rezone of 2.20 acres
from I-L to C-G zoning and the Conditional Use Permit for the operation of a drinking
establishment in the proposed C-G district. The gross square footage of the structure is
8,042 square feet. It an existing structure. The Comprehensive Plan designation is
currently for industrial. The property just north of this was just today approved for
commercial designation, so it's surrounded pretty much by commercial. The proposed
DA requirements, we aren't recommending a DA or the planning commission has not
recommended a DA. The Conditional Use Permit would take care of any conditional
requirements necessary for the drinking establishment. We do have elevations of the
structure. And this is the floor plan. The floor plan does -- or the proposal does include
a portion of the adjoining structure, that's where they would have some of their storage
maintenance and bathroom facilities. I believe it's these two sections. The Commission
recommended approval at their January 3rd, 2008, Public Hearing. The -- Patrick
McKeegan spoke in favor of the applicant representing the -- spoke in favor of the
application., representing the applicant. And Kevin Kelly, who is the applicant, also
spoke. No one spoke in opposition. Ron Van Auker commented about the parking
concerns. And written testimony was provided by Bradley Miller, also of Van Auker
Properties. And those written testimonies, we have letters dated December 19th,
January 3rd., and February 25th, all with regard to the parking issue. Key issues of
discussion by the Commission were the adequacy of the off-street parking for the
proposed use. The location of the restroom in the adjacent building and the
landscaping sidewalk, what's in the street buffer along Eagle Road.. The key
Commission changes to staff recommendation, they add a condition of approval for the
restroom facilities in the adjacent building to remain available as a condition of the
Conditional Use Permit. And they added a condition of approval for a copy of the cross-
parking agreement for the 69 off-street parking spaces to be provided with the certificate
of zoning compliance application and remain in force as condition of the CUP. The
outstanding issues for City Council -- parking remains an issue as raised in letters from
Mr. Miller, again, dated February 25th, 2008. With that I'll answer any questions that the
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 62 of 81
Council may have. I believe you got a copy of that letter in your packet today or in front
of you today.
De Weerd: I'm sorry. I'm pulling it up. You have to flip through 61 pages.
Canning: I'm sorry. The outstanding issue is the parking. I'll summarize it. The UDC is
just a per square footage basis, so with this use we would only require 16 parking
spaces. They do have 69 spaces provided, but that includes shared parking with the
adjacent site. They felt that the times would stagger on that, but the seating capacity for
the use as stated in the application is 243. So, there is some question as to -- although
the UDC doesn't require it, it certainly allows the Commission and Council the flexibility
to consider parking -- the adequacy of the parking with relationship to the application..
De Weerd: So, Anna, how many total parking spaces, then?
Canning: Will they have?
De Weerd..: Uh-huh.
Canning: Sixty-nine.
De Weerd: Okay. So, tell me -- we have parking issues all the time with bars and
Rudy's is our most recent one, where we are severely underparked. It's had negative
affects on other business owners out there and I don't know what the answer is. Do you
think -- and those aren't as big as this. So, do you think that's enough parking?
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, no. The situation you have here is
you have a street section for an industrial property where you don't have curb, gutter, or
sidewalk or improved edges to the street in this instance. I think there are instances
where a bar should not need to provide necessarily all the parking that it may generate,
but they could walk from a distance, but in this case the neighborhood just isn't set up
well to receive parking on the street. There is just -- those facilities aren't built on those
streets yet and they are industrial properties. So, I do believe there is a concern.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Any questions, Council?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree I have none at this point
De Weerd: Okay.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 63 of 81
De Weerd.: Yes.
Zaremba: It's not actually a question, but can you display a site plan again? Just to
look at it.
Canning: This is the structure where the saloon would be housed and, then, these are
the facilities within the adjoining structure. And this is Eagle Road. Significant change
in elevations here.
Zaremba: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Is the applicant here? If you will, please, state your name and
address for the record.
McKeegan: Madam Mayor, Council, my name is Patrick McKeegan. I'm an architect for
the applicant in this item. My address is 280 North Latah, Suite 100, Boise, Idaho. And
are we addressing both of them right now or just the rezone?
De Weerd: Both.
McKeegan: Both at once? Okay. What you have before you are two -- are, really, two
applications. We are asking for the rezone, because the use of the property and the
development of Eagle Road for the properties contiguous to Eagle Road are more
conducive to the commercial zoning, than the industrial zoning.. I have been associated
with this property for about five years from when it was the original -- the previous
structure. We remodeled that to make it more of a -- to bring it more in line with -- with
the commercial type uses than the industrial uses. The owner has -- consistently, the
types of uses that have come into it have been more of a retail office type nature than
an industrial nature and we feel that this -- the rezone -- the zoning is going to be
appropriate for that. Getting to the -- to the conditional use. In our -- before the
Planning and Zoning Commission, we addressed parking. As stated, in the -- you
know, we have 69 spaces available on our property. The other uses for the property
are a company that makes blinds for your windows and a furniture store, which is going
to be coming online. Those uses are daytime uses. The proposed use for the Rockin
KB Saloon is a nighttime use. It will start out at about 5:30 and go until to 2:00 a.m. So,
there may be a little bit of overlap, but based on previous tenants and their current --
tenant parking census, we don't anticipate as significant number of parking of the
parking spaces after 5:00 o'clock, you used for -- the uses in the north building. As
stated, a required number of parking spaces, per the ordinance is 16. We would agree
that that's slow. We feel that the 69 is adequate. If you look at -- at Lanark Street,
which we did -- if you go 300 feet down the street, there are 29 on -- legal on-site
spaces available and the road continues another 600 feet. So, while we are not allowed
to consider off-site, on-street parking as a part of the application. In this case it is
available. The other unique factor we have in this case is if that is an industrial zone.
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 64 of 81
For the most part, after the business day, except for some loading and unloading
activities at some of the businesses, that street is vacant and it's not like we are -- it's
not like a residential zone where there is people there and there is a lot of traffic on that
street, so could anticipate that people utilizing that on-street parking as not a -- without a
problem. Mr. Kelly, the tenant is going to offer some words about how he -- how his
business is going to operate. It's not really fair to compare this to a -- I have heard of
Rudy's. I don't know what it is. But this is more if an entertainment venue where you
would have -- instead of having one person in a car coming, we are anticipating you're
going to have, you know, two people, four people, coming. The inside of the building --
it's not wall to wall seats, actually, 33 to about 40 percent of the area inside the building
is not core seating, it's for a stage., there is bull riding area, there is some other
entertainment venues that are going to be in there, which Mr. -- Mr. Kelly will -- will
elaborate on later. So, we believe that that's going to -- the parking will not be a
problem. Specifically, getting to the details in the -- in the staff report and the conditions
of approval for the conditional use, there is a recommendation that the sidewalks on
Lanark Street be five feet wide. We went out and measured them, the ones that were
installed as part of the previous application were five feet and they are five feet. There
is one little corner in the northwest corner of the property -- if you can bring up the site
plan -- if you look at the northwest corner of the property, there is about a six foot
section between the driveway and our property line, which we did not put a sidewalk in
or -- because it just -- it doesn't connect to anything. There aren't sidewalks currently on
Eagle Road and there is no connection up to -- up to Eagle -- Eagle Road.. But we'd be
glad to put that six or eight foot section in if that's -- if that's a requirement of approval.
Regarding -- there is a condition of approval asking for amulti-use path along -- along
Eagle Road.. We have been in communication. with ITD, both on this project and on
previous projects and we have consistently told that with the lifestyle center
development that's happening north of here on Fairview Avenue, that there is going to
be redevelopment of Eagle Road from Fairview south and at this point in time ITD has
not determined what that -- what the details of that are going to be, except that it's going
to require some widening of Eagle Road in this location. They have some conceptual
plans, which I'm going to hand out. The first page I just handed out is sheet two of
seven of ITD's conceptual plan, which is for the right of way -- or for the improvements
along -- along the road. The second page is a blowup of the area at the corner of
Lanark and Eagle Road and what you will notice is north is towards the bottom of the
sheet, that the ten foot pathway, which is the two red lines, actually ends on south -- on
the north side of Lanark and, then, from the north side of Lanark there is a single red
line, which indicates a sidewalk up to -- from .Lanark Street to -- to Franklin Road. The
reason for that is the same conclusion that we had and the same thing that we have
been making a point of is at the north side of our property -- from our property line up to
Eagle Road there is about a four foot elevation change. At the south side of our
property you're anywhere from 18 to -- Eagle Road is at that point anywhere from 18 to
20 feet above our property. So, the road slopes off. There isn't a lot of room. And as
they -- you can see that as they get closer to Franklin they are actually going to be --
they are planning on adding two lanes, one will be a dedicated turn lane onto Franklin
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 65 of 81
and they are going to add a third through lane for traffic going -- going south on Eagle
Road towards the -- towards the freeway. So, I think what they are -- what I'm seeing
here, what I'm indicating here is that -- or the interpretation I have here is that the ten
foot path is in an area where you're flat and you have the ability to have a ten foot path
and you would maybe see pedestrians in that, but as you go up the hill and towards the
road., they want to bring that down to a standard sidewalk size, because of the -- of the
slope and the grading and not wanting to come in and having to put in the expensive
retaining walls and everything that they are going to have if they were to put the full ten
foot lane there. If we come down on our property, if you look at our site plan, we have
13 feet of landscaping between our parking lot and our -- or between our driveway and
our -- and our parking lot -- or our property line. That was approved at the last
conditional use hearing. When we built the south building as a trade off, we are
providing more landscaping in the parking -- in the parking lot. We actually pulled the
sidewalk and the paving away from the building and we put landscaping against the
building, because, again, at that point, as stated in the staff report you have before you,
the 35 foot buffer that you normally see around Eagle Road doesn't make any sense,
because it drops off so fast that when you're in your car you can't even see the slope.
And so we wanted to put the landscaping in the parking lot and that. If we were to come
in that 13 foot wide buffer and use ten feet of that for alane -- or a pedestrian lane,
then, we would really -- we would end up with no landscaping on the east side there,
which is -- we don't want to do. We had had communications with ITD. They have
requested that in regards to the ten foot -- in regards to the ten foot pedestrian lane and
also any lighting that's been requested along there, that we defer that at this time,
because they don't know what the specific designs are and they are concerned that if
we go in and start just building things and they are going to be in there in two or three
years tearing them out and moving them around.. And so that's what we would like to
request is that requirement not be enforced at this time, because we don't know what's
going there, ITD doesn't know what's going there and it really isn't -- isn't feasible to the
topography of the -- of the land.. Regarding the conditions for landscaping, we are in
agreement that the ten foot space along -- landscaping buffer along Lanark Street is not
adequate and we are going to be beefing that up, adding trees and adding landscaping
in accordance with the revised -- with the ordinance. In the parking lot we are going to
be replacing some of the gravel with ground covers and additional planting materials to
bring that into compliance with the stated requirements. There is one interior planter in
the parking lot that was not constructed to the five foot width. We are going to correct
that by moving the curb. And, then, there was a request for an addition of a -- of a
landscape island next to the proposed outdoor seating. At this point in time we have
decided not to go -- even though it's being recommended as a condition of approval and
we would like to have the condition remain, at this time we don't anticipate putting in that
outdoor seating and, therefore, the planter would not be required because we'd just
keep the parking that's there and there is already a planter at the end of that parking on
the southern property line. What we would accept is an editing of that, that if we were to
ever put in the outdoor seating that, then, we would be required to put in the landscape
island at that -- at that point in time. There was also -- it was also pointed out to us that
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 66 of 81
the trash enclosure needs to be upgraded from the chain link to a material compatible
with the building. What we are proposing is the building is stucco and stone and we are
proposing a tan colored split face masonry enclosure with metal gates to match the -- to
be a -- to compliment the -- the building. There is also two -- two additional
requirements. One that the restrooms be allowed -- because they are in another
building, that we have some kind of an agreement in place. Basically, the agreement in
place is a lease between the lease holder and the owner. The lease states that the -- if,
for some reason, the property was to change ownership or the buildings were to change
ownership or something, that as long as the -- as long as the -- the entertainment use is
in -- is in use and has alease -- and has that, that the -- they also -- the lease goes with
the -- with the property and that the owner of the north building could not change the
terms of that without -- really just couldn't. It's a legal document. And also we are --
thought we had the cross-parking agreement already recorded with the previous
application, but apparently we don't, so we are in the process of getting that put
together. And, finally, there is a requirement for us to work with staff on alternate
compliance for a pathway from Eagle Road to the building. We already have a sidewalk
along Lanark Street, which connects to a sidewalk, which connects to all the front doors
of the buildings and, again, at this time, since Eagle Road is not improved at this time
with any kind of a sidewalk or a walkway and ITD does not know exactly what form
that's going to take., we would ask that that be deferred until we have some kind of an
idea of what they are going to do and, then, we can react -- react to it. At this time I
would just stand for any questions and I'd like to give the tenant, Mr. Kelly, an
opportunity to actually speak about the business and what he's going to be doing there.
De Weerd: Okay.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd.: Yes.
Bird: Anna, would you go back to the floor plan. What is that, about six foot walkway
between the two buildings?
McKeegan: It's actually -- it's aten -- Madam Mayor, Councilman Bird, it's a ten foot
area walkway between the two.
Bird: It's ten foot?
McKeegan: Yes. And it's -- what isn't shown on that plan is there will no be direct
access from -- from the public right of way back into the -- into that restroom area. We
are going to put in a gate that exists only out, so they can maintain control of the people
coming into the facility. They don't want people walking up there and coming in the
back door. All the people -- all the customers will enter at the -- at the front door on the
angled portion, on the lower right-hand corner in our drawing and, then, if they want to
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 67 of 81
go to the restroom, they will go out the double doors over to the restroom and, then,
back through that way. But we will have a --
Bird: But you're going to have some kind of gate there --
McKeegan: Right. With a --
Bird.: -- at the east end of that and probably at the west end, too?
McKeegan: At the west -- at the west end we are going to enclose that off completely.
there was some concerned at the Public Hearing about -- about -- well, it's -- on the
west end you're five feet off the property line, looking at --
Bird: I got some real safety concerns on that, going out there between --
McKeegan: Well, it will -- the gate will have a detach unit on it, it will be operable from
the inside.
Bird: How much lighting are you going to have there?
McKeegan: It's all lit up right .now. We have -- we -- at one time when we designed the
building, the building was designed so that the back part of this building could actually
be a separate tenant, so we provided more than enough lighting back there to keep it
from being a tunnel or a cave. Plus the other previous tenants had -- had to have
access also.
Bird: And the one restroom has got a door that goes out to the west?
McKeegan: No. That's in the -- that's a secondary exist for the office area. And that
will be only accessed by -- by the --
Bird: You mean that isn't one restroom there, that's two restrooms? That's a mens and
a womens in that one location?
McKeegan: There is, actually, about -- there is actually one, two, three, four, five, six,
seven -- fourteen toilets and urinals in there.
Bird:: Yeah. But one's women and one men; right?
McKeegan: Yes.
Bird.: Okay.
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 68 of 81
McKeegan: And we -- before -- when we first put this together, we checked with the fire
marshal and the building department to make sure that -- because it was -- quite frankly,
it was an area that I had never been in either and the area between the buildings is
adequate. We have adequate separation. Our exit widths are -- are satisfactory and it
would be just like a -- just like a door with the panic on it in a shopping center. It's not
really any different than the -- than the front. The buildings are fully fire sprinkler.
De Weerd: But who monitors -- I mean it's not like someone monitors a bathroom, but
when it's in a different building and you don't have doors -- you have doors to the stalls,
but who's to say that someone is just not going to walk around the corner. That's weird.
Bird: Show me the route in there.
McKeegan: Okay. If you're a customer, you come here, there is a checkpoint where
they check ID and, then, you're free to go into the facility. If you need to use the
restroom, you come through this door, you go through this door and., then, you go into
either the men's or the women's facility. And these are not -- and these are not -- these
are not -- we don't want to have enclosed restrooms in this type of facility. The building
code and the Americans With Disability Act allows for remote restrooms. A good
analogy of this would be like a mall. The mall does not -- not every business in the mall
has a restroom. You have public restrooms. The only -- this is very similar to that. We
have -- we have the restrooms in a -- in a separate building. About this location right
here is going to be a fence with a door and if you were in this area and something
happens or if you want to -- if you want to leave, you walk up to that door, you will push
on a paddle and it's just like the back door in a retail store, an alarm will sound, so they
will know this door is opening. One of the people will go there and determine what the
problem is. If it's fire, in 15 seconds the door opens and you're -- and you come down
this -- down this corridor and you're in the public right of way.
De Weerd: Okay. But what kind of monitoring -- I mean -- I don't want monitoring in the
bathrooms, but say I'm the only woman in there and some drunk guy walks into the
women's room and you scream, you're in a different building than anyone else is, what
happens?
McKeegan: I -- I don't know. What happens if you're the only woman at the mall and
you go down that long corridor -- I'm thinking of Boise Town Square --
De Weerd: I'm not -- I don't have any responsibility for Boise Town Square.
McKeegan: Right.
De Weerd: I do for Meridian, Idaho. So, I'm just asking a scenario question that I think
is an issue, because there is no one over there -- if there is only two people over there,
something happens, who is going to do something?
Meridian city Council
February 26, 2008
Page 69 of 81
McKeegan: I think Mr. Kelly can address that.
De Weerd: Okay. I will wait until he's up here and ask him.
McKeegan: Because that's what -- and he looks like he's chomping at the bit to -- being
the cowboy he is, to discuss how his operation is going to work and how security is
going to work.
De Weerd: Okay.
McKeegan: So, if there is -- if I would like -- if there is any other questions, I'd like -- I'd
answer them, if not I'd like to let him --
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I do. On the subject of parking, the 69 spaces you said that your outdoor
seating and the landscape that would be required because of the outdoor seating,
currently are parking spaces?
McKeegan: Right. Currently this -- the whole front of the building here has parking. Mr.
Kelly wanted us to allow for some outdoor seating in this area., which means that -- and
currently this is landscaped right here. The City of Meridian has an ordinance that any
landscape -- any parking area has to have landscaping at either end. We did not show
additional landscaping at this area to take care of this parking right here.
Zaremba: Would that seating area take some of the 69 spaces or does the 69 not count
that area?
McKeegan: The 69 does not count that. Those weren't in the -- were not included in
that.
Zaremba: Okay. So, at the moment, if you don't do the outdoor seating, there is
actually more than 69 spaces?
McKeegan: We are gaining three spaces back, I believe.
Zaremba: Okay.
McKeegan: I believe that's about 21 feet.
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 70 of 81
Zaremba: Then, you mentioned Lanark Street, which, as Director Canning pointed out,
does not have sidewalk or curb and gutter and all that sort of stuff. Do you know if it
has lighting?
McKeegan: Have I driven down there at night? I know we have lighting at our parking
lot at the entrance. I believe the -- I believe the other businesses that have parking in
front of their buildings do have lighting, but Ican't --
Zaremba: But it's not street lighting, that's parking lot lighting.
McKeegan: I can't answer that question, if it is or not. I have only been down there
once at night to --
Zaremba: Okay. All right. Thank you.
De Weerd: Well, I guess just to -- to kind of take off where he left behind is if you don't
have an improved street, so you don't have sidewalks, how -- I guess the intention
would be that the patrons would walk down the middle of the road to get to the saloon or
the facility?
McKeegan: If there was overflow parking on the street.
De Weerd: And you're not sure if there is lighting.
McKeegan: I'm not sure. No, I'm -- I haven't been out there -- I have only been out
there once at night and I -- I can't remember. I can't answer the question.
De Weerd: Okay. Can you tell me if Lanark -- I anticipate I already know the answer to
this, but is there a signalization intended on Lanark?
McKeegan: At this point in time there is no signalization and ITD has not indicated to us
that they intend on doing that.
De Weerd: Okay. And I don't know if this is going to be for you or Mr. Kelly, but you
have a saloon here and it's -- it's what you're saying more entertainment than drinking,
but the speed there is 50 miles an hour. You're at the bottom of an incline, why -- where
are the safety precautions you're putting in place by allowing that kind of intense traffic
onto a high speed road? What are the precautions you're putting in there, if that's not
going to be a lit intersection?
McKeegan: We have three -- three lights on our -- on our property and I don't know if
they -- I know they aren't supposed to go onto the street, but Idon't --
De Weerd: Okay. I mean a signal light. How about a signal light?
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 71 of 81
McKeegan: A signal light. Well, it's -- it's -- the street is -- the street is -- coming down
Franklin Road there is the light there and I don't know if everybody can hit -- can hit 50
miles an hour in -- in the, you know, 300, 600 feet of coming down the hill. Coming from
the other way -- I don't know the answer to the question. I -- ACRD has reviewed it and
they have determined that a signal is not required there. They haven't asked for one.
They didn't ask for one in their -- in their report on it, but Iknow I -- I used to attend a
karate studio there in the evening at this -- and my class started at 6:30 and I was there
until 9:00 o'clock and I never felt that I had a problem getting in or out of the facility at
those hours, because Ithink -- I don't know what the traffic count at 10:00 o'clock or
11:00 o'clock or 2:00 o'clock is at -- on -- on the roadway.
De Weerd: But you hadn't been drinking.
McKeegan: That's correct.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
McKeegan: You know -- and,, again., maybe Mr. Kelly can address how he's going to
monitor that.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: None.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Zaremba: You asked them.
De Weerd: Mr. Kelly.
Kelly: Madam Mayor, Council Members, Kevin Kelly, 580 West Meridian Road, Kuna.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Kelly: Don't know where to start. I guess we will start with the parking issue. The 69
parking spots -- you try to compare us with Rudy's, which isn't quite fair. Rudy's has
three or four businesses in that same complex that are open as long as Rudy's is, so
they are competing for the same parking spaces. In our building where we would be,
we would get all 69 spaces. The other business closes at 5:00 o'clock. They are not --
they are not open later than that. As far as the street parking goes, there are sidewalks
down the street of Lanark, not directly out the turn, but a couple hundred feet down and.,
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 72 of 81
then., there is sidewalks on both sides of the road. I assume we are afforded the same
parking rights as the businesses that are already there that park there all day long, as
Mrs. Canning .mentioned. It is an industrial street, but if you go down there during the
day those businesses park their vehicles out on the street during the day. They got
trucks and cars and everything else there. So, I assume we would be afforded the
same rights at nighttime. The parking lot is lit up quite well. There is -- real well,
actually. And going out into the Eagle Road -- granted, some of these people will be
drinking, there is no doubt about that, but it's not any different than right across the road
from R.C. Willey, who their customers come out at nighttime the same spot, and the
same 50 mile an hour road. So, I don't know if that would be different, other than the
fact that they will be dancing here and probably will have a couple beers or something..
But to get back to the setup there, the bathrooms we are talking about, it's going to be
closed on both ends -- and don't know how to operate this thing. Or if it operates. That
will beaten foot wall on that end., so no one will go that way. There will be another wall
here, as you mentioned earlier, with a gate. We are going to have a security camera on
the wall here to monitor that and it's hooked up to our point of sale system, so they can
monitor it all the time. As well as this is a smoking area. That's we decided to have our
bathroom on this side, because we didn't want smoking inside. We had a courtyard
outside, so we made it this way so that they can come out and smoke here and the
bathrooms are across the way. This also is an office. We have -- since this is a
doorway to the bathrooms and the smoking area, we are going to have a security guy
stand here at this -- this door, as well as the other doors. But as you mentioned, if
someone would scream or there is an occurrence over there, we would have on our
point of sale system on our camera, as well as our security guy here. And, then,
anybody that would be in this area smoking, which seems like lots of people smoke
now, would likely have several people out there was well. This isn't going to happen, so
we would have those spaces available. We just -- this isn't really the thought we had in
mind anyhow. We thought we had a ten foot walkway there and we thought we could
put a couple of tables out on the walkway and still give ourselves the four foot walkway
required out front. The whole point of this is -- is not a drinking establishment, although
we fall under that category, just like a restaurant down the street that has a bar also and
you sit and watch TV, watch ball games. This primarily is -- our vision was -- is that
people would make a .night of it. They'd go downtown to the restaurants right down the
street to the fine restaurants they have and, then, after having dinner they come down
and dance here. We have live music one night a week and., then, sound system music
the rest of the time. So, we are just trying to add entertainment to Meridian. We are not
looking at it as a -- it's going to be an upscale entertainment facility, it's not a bar like
you might think where you see people go in and just slump over the bar in a dark cave
and so they think. This is more of an entertainment added value to Meridian and we are
trying to keep upscale. That's our -- I know the bar thing gets into a lot of connotation.
We are trying to stay away from that and try to value the entertainment part of it, so -- I'll
take any questions if you have any.
De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 73 of 81
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Will there be food served?
Kelly: We didn't want to serve -- we are going to have snacks, like peanuts and
pretzels, things like that, but we didn't want to compete with the fine restaurants right a
quarter mile down the road. We hope that their customers would have dinner and, then,
come down and dance with us. So, we didn't -- we didn't see that there was any need
to compete with the kitchen facilities and the -- they have a dozen or more real good
restaurants within a quarter of a mile of the -- of this place. So, we didn't see any need
to compete with that and hoped it would intertwine with the same thing, same
customers.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Are you going to have a cover charge if you -- at the door if you're going to be
upscaled and --
Kelly: We are going to have a cover charge at the door only on the nights that we have
a live band, which would be --
Bird: Oh, I thought you were going to have a live band every night.
Kelly: No. No. One night a week. Most likely a Saturday night. And, then, the rest of
the time they can come in and dance and -- we have -- actually, we have three events.
This right here is a quick draw -- laser type quick draw pistols. You compete against
one another for time. This right here is actually a calf roping machine. It's a -- you sit
on a fiberglass horse and a calf comes out from under it and they can rope it. And this
is just amechanical -- just a mechanical bull that you see -- I think there is one other
place in Boise that actually has one. And this would be our dance floor, which is about
a 1,200 square foot dance floor. That's our primary entertainment is what we are trying
to base it on.
Bird.: That's a pretty good size dance floor.
Kelly: I hope we can fill it with dancers.
Bird.: Most people don't make money on a dance floor.
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 74 of 81
Kelly: No. It's the entertainment.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions, Council? Thank you. You have the last word.
It is a Public Hearing. There might be someone else who would like to provide
testimony. This would be the time to do it. Anyone?
Van Auker: That's a long wait. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Ron Van
Auker, 3084 East Lanark Street, just across from the proposed entertainment
establishment. Not going to beat it to death. We all know -- in my opinion, parking -- in
our opinion, parking is a serious issue. That was the bulk of our letter that we have sent
out to the other tenants on the street, as well as the Council and the Planning
Department. With the capacity of 243 people, it seems ridiculous that 69 spaces would
be adequate parking. I know .there is on-street parking, but on a street with no
sidewalks and no way to get the people from the end of the street to the bar, it just
poses kind of a safety issue. We all know about Rudy's Bar and Grill. We actually own
the property -- the 40 acres to the east of that bar and had to spend 15,000 dollars to
put a chain link fence up from Overland Road to the freeway, because the trucks were
loading the restaurant from the rear and we are trying to keep a -- a tax status of
agriculture on that property, because we all know the tax guy likes to hit us up whenever
he can, so -- but if you do choose to approve this project, we'd like to see as a condition
of the approval that the operating hours are strictly enforced from 5:00 to 2:00 a.m. and
in order that the parking issue does not conflict with the other industrial uses in the
subdivision. So, with that -- oh, the other one issue -- well, no, I won't say that. That's
another parking thing and we have talked about parking enough, so -- if anybody has
any questions I would be happy to answer them.
De Weerd: So, Ron, you mentioned there are not sidewalks along that road?
Van Auker: From Eagle Road to just beyond YMC there is no -- there is no sidewalks.
And I guess it's Olson -- Olson Road that heads up towards Franklin, that's the point
where the sidewalks start. We installed those.
De Weerd: So, you have sidewalks that begin after --
Bird: After YMC.
Van Auker: Right. Where Marv's Insulation -- there is a building right here that we built
for Marv's. There is sidewalk from that point on all the way down to the cul-de-sac.
De Weerd: Okay. But closer to Eagle Road there it's unimproved..
Van Auker: Correct.
De Weerd: Is there street lighting in that area where there is no sidewalks?
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 75 of 81
Van Auker: No. Along this side of the street there is not -- I couldn't tell you a hundred
percent sure if there is on this side, but I don't think there is.
Bird: YMC's got some of their lot in there.
Van Auker: Yeah. We -- our building sits right here. We have wall packs all the way
around the building, just to -- for security. But that lights to the parking lot to about right
there, so --
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions?
Bird.: I have none.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Any other public testimony? Okay. You can wrap up
with your remarks.
McKeegan: Mr. Sigmont pointed out to me an answer to the question about the turning.
If you look on the -- on the second page of this document, this is the -- again, the long
range plan for this intersection. If you look out in Eagle Road you will see that there are
the red lines. Those are going to be in the future. Those are going to be raised
medians. So, what you can see is, basically, from our property it will be right --aright
turn out only and from the R.C. Willey property it's going to be a right turn out only. And
If you're coming into our property, as people coming down will be accelerating, they will
turn into a protected entry and, then, come in. So -- and I -- I cannot tell you that there
is a deceleration lane going up the road or an acceleration lane going up the road or --
because this thing is in such a hard scale, but it appears to me like there may be an
acceleration lane when you turn out to allow you to accelerate up the -- up the road on
that. So, it looks to me like they are not planning on signalizing this intersection, but
they are going to severely limit the left turning movements, because of the problems.
And I -- and it appears if you look at the rest of the document they are going to be going
that on down Eagle Road as they head north towards Fairview. So, I just wanted to
offer that -- that clarification. Getting back to the parking and the numbers, at 70
spaces, if you have three people per car, that gets us up to 210 people. If you have four
people per car that gets us up to 280 people. So, granted, not every -- not every car is
going to have four people in it, but, again, the way that Mr. Kelly's configured this as an
entertainment, he's not anticipating that every car is going to have one person in it,
either. So, I think that -- I think it's going to be adequate. The philosophy behind -- at
least I have been told the philosophy behind Meridian's parking ordinance was not to
make it so -- so menu driven or numbers driven, that it -- that it placed a burden on the
business, that it was up to the business to have agood -- a good business plan and a
good understanding of what they felt was going to be adequate and, then, to let them,
you know, live with that or work. But I -- my -- you know, we think the 69 spaces are
going to be adequate for the anticipated use. With that I'll stop and take any questions.
Meridian City council
February 26, 2008
Page 76 of 81
Bird: Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: Thank you. Mr. Bird.
Bird.: Patrick, what -- did you say there is a furniture store and what else in the rest of
the building?
McKeegan: There is a company that sells blinds for your windows.
Bird.: A bind company. Yeah.
McKeegan: Shutters.
Bird: And they both close at 5:00 o'clock?
McKeegan: I believe the blind guy closes at 5:00. I think the furniture store -- what's
the new hours of the --
Bird: Is it a manufacture or retail?
McKeegan.: Retail...
Bird.: And you can't -- and they are going to close at 5:00 o'clock? They would be the
first --
McKeegan; Before they were closing around 7:00, just because they -- when Everton
was in there they would -- they were closing at round 7:00 or 8:00 o'clock, because they
just didn't have any -- any customers. Again., when I -- when I went there -- I went there
for karate for a year and we would come out at -- you know, I would get there at 6:30
and there would be -- and that side of the parking lot there would be like three cars and
I'm pretty sure all of them belong to the guys that were working there. When I came out
the parking lot was deserted, except for those of us that were coming out of the studio.
And Iknow --
Bird: My biggest concern, not only is safety along -- parking along Lanark because of
no lighting and stuff, but also the trash that's going to be out there every morning for the
people to clean up and stuff like that. You know, a guy parking there from 7:00 to 4:00
at work at YMC or Van Aukers or someplace is a lot different than some guy that sits in
a bar for four or five hours and, then, hauls out and, you know, usually can carry a bottle
out with him or something.. I mean, you know, I have some real concern over that, the
problems it's going to raise there. Even with the explanation of that bathroom, Istill -- I
don't -- I wouldn't want to write the insurance, let's put it that way.
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 77 of 81
De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions from Council?
Rountree: I have none.
De Weerd: No? Thank you.
McKeegan: Okay. Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, the applicant has had his concluding remarks. There is no
further public testimony. Any additional staff comments?
Canning: No, ma'am.
De Weerd.: Does police or fire have any comment on this?
Bird: I want police to comment.
Stowe: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, obviously, with any drinking
establishment it's going to increase calls for service.. However, with that said we are not
categorically against drinking establishments. I don't know if it's been addressed in staff
comments, there were some areas of concern I had just looking at the layout of the
establishment as far as natural surveillance goes and where a patrol car driving by
would be able to look down into certain areas to be able to see if people were actually in
a safe position. It looked like there was a lot of closed off areas to me that we would not
be able to actually have visual surveillance of it and that concerns me. The location
itself, there are some concerns with the people after drinking going out onto Eagle
Road. However, overall, this is a much better location than say near a residential area,
because of the industrial location where there are no other businesses or residences
that would maybe complain of noise or other disturbances in the area. So, with that I
would answer any questions, but that's just my concerns looking at it from just this one
evening.
De Weerd: Thank you, Lieutenant. Any further questions? Council, if there is no
further information needed, I would entertain a motion to close.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird..
Bird: I move we close the Public Hearing on RZ 07-019 and CUP 07-019.
Zaremba: Second..
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 78 of 81
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion to close Items 18 and 19. All those in favor say aye.
All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRfES: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd: Any discussion? If not, do I have a motion?
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, before you make a motion, I did
want to point out it's been awhile since the introductory testimony from the applicant, but
you do have two very different applications before you. One is the rezone and the
question of the appropriateness of the rezone and the other is the conditional use,
which would be allowed by the rezone.
De Weerd: Thank you..
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird..
Bird.: Yeah. The rezone -- you have to pass it to make the CUP applicable. Madam
Mayor, I'll try a deal. I move that we approve RZ 07-019, rezone of .602 acres from I-L
to C-G for Rockin KB Saloon.
De Weerd: I have a motion to approve Item 18. Do I have a second?
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I`II second for discussion purposes.
De Weerd: Okay. So, discussion.
Rountree: It's amazing what you learn sitting up here. We have heard tonight that the
Rockin KB Saloon and entertainment results in people, essentially, car pooling. I don't
see that. It doesn't happen anyplace else. We also learn that it's a saloon and there
will be dancing and you might go in there and probably have a couple beers. I get real
concerned when I hear those kinds of comments from applicants, because I don't think
that's really the case. But none of those are issues with me. The issue with me --and I
have been consistent, is that industrial zoning in this city is being chiseled away bit by
bit, day by day, and at some point in time when we need industrial zoning, we are not
going to have it. I'm not in favor of this rezone. And I'm not against the Rockin KB
Saloon, but I would hope that it would be portrayed in the light in which it's being
marketed at some point in time in the future. So, my vote on the motion would be no for
the rezone.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further discussion?
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 79 of 81
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I can see that there could be -- that this particular venue could find a place in
Meridian where it would add another thing for people to do. I'm very uncomfortable with
this location for it. And along with Councilman Rountree, I also feel that the current
zoning of this area as industrial is appropriate. Those are the uses that should be here.
That doesn't mean I wouldn't be happy to approve such a use in a different location, but
I feel this is -- speaking to the CUP as well, I don't feel this is the correct location for this
and I, too, would not be in favor of the rezone.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd.: Any discussion? Mr. Bird.
Bird: I, too, don't like -- and I know we need as much industrial zone as we do, but we
seem -- we don't seem to think twice about taking 20 or 30 or 40 acres in out of
industrial and putting it in as high density residential. So, I didn't think .602 of an acre
would really take a lot of industrial out of that. I don't see a big building being built on
that, but I -- I hate to tell anybody about their business, but Idon't -- I don't think -- to be
truthful with you, I don't know whether -- the location don't bother me as much as the
layout. I hate restrooms being away from the main building. I don't care how many
security cameras you have out there or how many things doing and -- I don't know. It
just don't feel right to me. Anyway, call for the question.
De Weerd: Okay. Madam Clerk, will you, please, call roll on this motion. And the
motion is to approve Item 18.
Roll-Call: Bird, nay; Rountree, nay; Zaremba, nay; Borton, absent.
MOTION FAILED: THREE NAYS. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd: Okay. Item 19 --
Rountree: We still haven't done anything with 18.
De Weerd: Oh, that's right.
Rountree: We haven't approved, but we haven't denied it. Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Rountree.
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 80 of 81
Rountree: I move that we deny the request for rezone in Item 18.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to deny the request on Item 18. If
there is no discussion, Madam Clerk, will you, please, call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird., yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, absent.
De Weerd.: ALI ayes.
MOTION CARRIES: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd: The CUP would still need to be voted on, even though it's not allowed in the
current zoning; correct?
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the findings we would process for the
CUP, based on your motion on the prior application, would be that it's not in the
appropriate zone. It's not zoned for that use. But we would need to make a motion to
move to deny it.
Bird:: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we deny CUP 07-019.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to deny Item 19. If there is no
discussion, Madam Clerk, please, call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, absent.
MOTION CARRIES: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd.: Okay. Council, we are at the end of our agenda. I would entertain a motion
to adjourn.
Bird.: Before you do, Madam Mayor, may I say something?
Meridian City Council
February 26, 2008
Page 81 of 81
De Weerd: Yes.
Bird: I want to compliment a gentleman back there that -- we got an article in the
Statesman that is finally positive and it couldn't have -- it couldn't have been on a -- for a
better person, Frank.
De Weerd: Nice picture, too.
Bird: And I'm very very proud of you and I'm very proud of Jennifer who wrote it. The
stock -- my stock in the Statesman went up about a hundred percent when I read that
this morning and I'm like Councilman Rountree, what a nice positive article and couldn't
have happened to a better guy.
Rountree: Congratulations. Move the adjourn.
Bird: Second..
De Weerd: All those in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd.: Thank you.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 10:57 P.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
s~~
MAYOR TA De WEERD
ATTESTED:~~
JAYC
DATE AP~~'b ''~
r ~=.
_~
~` ~~ ~°
d
L. HOLMAN,
.~
.~
~ ```
L
IT CLERK
~ p
,,