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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMarch 6, 2006 P&Z MInutesMeridian Planning & Zoning March 6, 2008 Page 60 of 80 Moe: It's been moved and seconded to continue the Public Hearing CUP 08-002 for Sonic Southern Springs to the regularly scheduled meeting of the 20th of March. Newton-Huckabay: Aye. Rohm: Do you need a motion? Moe: Yeah. Rohm: Mr. Chairman, I move that we continue Item No. CUP 08-002 to the regularly scheduled meeting of March 20th. Moe: I think we probably moved it twice. That's good. Rohm: Well, I think we did. Moe: Could I get a second again? Newton-Huckabay: Second. Moe: All those in favor say aye. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 10: Public Hearing: AZ 07-020 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 3 acres from RUT to an R-15 (Medium High Density Residential) zone for Villas ~ Lochsa Falls by D.T. Campbell Investments - 5555 North Linder Road: Item 11: Public Hearing: PP 08-002 Request for a Preliminary Plat approval with 1 residential building lot and 1 common lot in a proposed R-15 zone for Villas ~ Lochsa Falls by D.T. Campbell Investments - 5555 North Linder Road: Item 12: Public Hearing: CUP 08-003 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for 21 multi-family dwelling units in a proposed R-15 zone on approximately 3 acres for Villas ~ Lochsa Falls by D.T. Campbell Investments - 5555 North Linder Road: Moe: Okay. I'd like to open the Public Hearing AZ 07-002, PP 08-002 and CUP 08-003 for the Villas @Lochsa Falls and start with the staff report, please. O'Brien: Mr. Chairman? Mr. Chairman, you said Public Hearing AZ 07-002, instead of 020. Meridian Planning & Zoning March 6, 2008 Page 61 of 80 Moe: I'm sorry about that. 002. That was AZ 07-020. O'Brien: Thank you. Parsons: No. Excuse me, Mr. Chairman. It's supposed to be AZ 08-002 for the annexation. Newton-Huckabay: A misprint. Moe: What's that? Newton-Huckabay: A misprint. Moe: It was a misprint. Okay. So, it should have been 08-020 is what you're saying; right? Marshall: 002. Moe: Okay. Well, let's open that thing, along with the other two. Newton-Huckabay: Mr. Chair? Mr. Chair, there is -- one confusion. Is it AZ 08-002 or - - because on the agenda it says 020, on the report it says 002. Parsons: It is 002. Moe: And that, I do believe is -- it does say 020. Okay. Let's start again. We are going to open the Public Hearing on AZ 08-002 -- correct? Okay. And PP 08-002 and CUP 08-003. And now the staff report. Parsons: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission. The applications before you tonight are an annexation and zoning of three acres from RUT Ada County to R-15, medium high density residential. Concurrently the applicant has submitted for preliminary plat approval of one residential lot and one common lot. Conditional Use Permit approval to construct amulti-family development consisting of 21 condominium units and 120 square foot cabana. A private street application for three private streets within the proposed development and alternative compliance for two UDC standards of one to allow for an alternative design from the 20-by-20 parking pad requirement and the other is to allow for an alternative design for the five foot landscape strip adjacent to pathways. The site is located at 5555 North Linder Road, approximately a half mile north of McMillan Road on the west side of the Linder Road. The property is bordered to the north by Lochsa Falls No. 1. To south with a single family residence, zoned Ada County -- Ada County RUT. To the east of the site is Rocky Mountain High School, zoned R-8. And., again, to the west of the site is Lochsa Falls Subdivision No. 1, zoned R-4. Move to the aerial. The site currently contains an existing single family home with associated out buildings. The submitted plans indicate all existing buildings are to be removed to make way for the proposed multi-family developments. So, here you can Meridian Planning & Zoning March 6, 2008 Page 62 of 80 see the site is pretty much built out around it, except for this parcel here. The map's a little dated. This is under construction now. And one thing I'd like to point out, too, is this section or roadway is also under construction -- ACHD construction right now. The applicant is requesting approval of two lots consisting of one residential lot and one common lot. The UDC requires all residential street buffers to be on a common lot. On a submitted preliminary plat the applicant does not show the street buffer landscaping within a common lot. In addition, the site connection to the existing Lochsa Falls sidewalk on Cedar Grove in the southwest corner of this site tapers from five feet to two feet. Staff has conditioned the applicant to revise the plat to show the landscape buffer in a common lot and the extension of the sidewalk, maintain a five foot width to the property line prior to submitting for final plat. So, here is the plat that they submit. Here is where that 25 foot landscape buffer is located and it's not indicated there and., then, this is what staff is recommending here as far as the tapering down from five to two feet here and connecting to that existing sidewalk.. Primary access to the site is from Cedar Grove, a half street section via a cul-de-sac that will be dedicated to ACHD and will be extended if and when the parcel to the south annexes into the city. In conjunction with the public streets, the applicant is proposing to construct three private streets to provide access and circulation within this development. The proposed private streets are all internal to the development and are to be constructed as a 24 foot street section that includes a four foot wide sidewalk on one side. So, here is kind of the entrance way into the development. Here is the partial cul-de-sac that will be dedicated to ACRD. And, then, entrance into the site will be through this 26 foot throat and, then, the private street's kind of going in an I shaped to T shaped if you will. The applicant is proposing several different structures on this site. The site is expected to develop with 14 buildings, including the exercise cabana. The mix of the buildings include five single detached buildings and eight bi-unit buildings, totaling 21 units. The product type will range in size from 1,500 to 1,750 square feet. All of the units will be three bedrooms, two and a half baths, with attached two-car garages. The applicant is proposing an alternative to the 20 by 20 parking pad in front of the garages as required by code. The parking pads located in front of the garages are 20 feet wide and tape down to ten feet. The roll into the driveway is at least 40 feet and the first 20 feet incorporates a five foot landscape strip with a decorative trellis that highlights the entrance of the driveway. The four detached units. internal to the development do not have the expanded driveway, but have the trellis integrated into the front facade of the garages. Ten guest parking stalls have been provided for the four internal units to provide additional parking for the development. Staff is supportive of the applicant's request. So, here is where they are locating their guest parking here and also north of -- of the internal units. These are the four internal units that I had mentioned earlier without having the parking pads. I know in past projects we have discussed this issue quite a bit about having the two car parks or the two garage car parks and a 20-by-20 pad when they came into condo the project, so that applicant's have come in with aunique -- I guess alternative to what code requires and so they actually provide this pad space here and, then, you know, additional pad space behind there, so tandem parking. Again, you can see where they had the landscape strip and there is where the trellis is located to highlight the entrance into the garage. The landscape buffer and proposed plantings around the foundation of the units comply with the UDC. However, the UDC requires a five foot landscaping strip Meridian Planning & Zoning March 6, 2008 Page 63 of 80 along both sides of walkways with trees planted every 35 linear feet. The applicant has requested alternative compliance from this standard. By requiring the five foot walking path along the west side of their property, would either be placed along the existing fence of the single family residences or adjacent to the garages of the two units that parallel the pathway. For the esthetics of the project the applicant is proposing to vary the widths of the landscaping strips along the pathway to allow five feet for the planting of trees and narrow to three feet in areas to be planted with shrubs and plants, while maintaining the five foot pathway. Portions of the path -- walking paths would still be at the back of the residential fence, however, the impact is less than having the entire fencing located along the west property boundary's fence line. Staff believes this is a better alternative, because it limits the impact to the residents on the west and meets the intent of the landscaping ordinance. So, again., this is the walking path that staff is referencing. You can seek how the applicant has varied the landscaping width here to allow for the trees to be planted, so you have it five feet here, opens up five feet here, opens five feet there, five feet here, and, then, opens there for five feet to allow the required trees. And., then, along the property boundary here it narrows to three feet in there to allow for shrubs and other plantings. The applicant is required to provide amenities for the multi-family development. Amenities on the site include a walking path throughout the development, berm landscaping along North Linder Road, with a central plaza and water fountain. A neighborhood fitness pool and an excise cabana with outdoor patio area. So, amenities are provided here. Here is the walking path around the development. There is where the cabana is located.. Outdoor seating area. And, then, of course, the fitness pool here. Again, here is where that fountain is located with the plaza for residents to use. One other thing to mention, the applicant's also provided that 80 foot -- 80 square feet of private usable space and., in addition, they try to incorporate private usable backyards for future residents of the development as well. Those average roughly 400 square feet. Because the site is less than five acres, the qualifying open space requirements of the UDC -- of UDC 11-3G-3 are not applicable. However, the multi-family standards require a minimum area of outdoor common open space of 350 square feet for each unit containing more than 1,200 square feet of living area. The units for the proposed multi-family development range in size from 1,500 square feet to 1,750 square feet. The minimum amount of open space required for this development is 7,350 square feet and private usable open space is not considered common open space. Currently, the applicant does not comply with the UDC. Staff recommends the applicant lose one of the northern units adjacent to the cabana and incorporate this area into a common area lot. If one lot -- one unit is lost, the applicant will have to provide 7,000 square feet of open space. In addition to providing an additional common area around the proposed cabana and pool area, staff recommends that the applicant provide an additional amenity, including., but not limited to a gazebo, barbecue area. Furthermore, staff recommends that the square footage of the exercise cabana increase from 120 square feet to 240 square feet to provide for a more usable space. If these changes are made, staff is supportive of the common open space for the site.. So, what staff is actually proposing is one of these -- preferably one of these units to move or either rotate, turn, and try to just provide some more usable space here. The applicant has provided staff with an additional rendering that we passed out for you tonight. I'll let them do a job of explaining that to you, to kind of go with what Meridian Planning & Zoning March 6, 2008 Page 64 of 80 they are proposing to do with that. But right now staff has asked that one of these units be removed and additional open space be provided. The applicant has submitted front, side, and rear building elevations for the housing types and the cabana. Building materials are to include stucco, stone., and masonry, wood siding, rough sawn -- rough sawn timber, stained black, brown, Carmel or natural finish and fiberglass shingles. All of the homes will be two stories with covered porches, private courtyards, and own private backyards enclosed with six foot Cedar or vinyl fencing. The cabana is to be constructed of shingle -- stucco with slate the banding along the top and bottom of the structure. The same architectural shingles will be used as proposed by multi-family units. In the narrative submitted with the application, the applicant states the project does not propose to repeat two exterior styles side by side. Staff is supportive of the varying -- staff is supportive of varying the exterior styles and elevations and has conditioned the project as such in Exhibit B of the staff report. And that's also been included in the development agreement for the site. Staff likes the appearance of the proposed buildings and any future buildings on this site shall substantially comply with the construction material and' design elements shown on these elevations. Staff is recommending approval of the Villas @Lochsa Falls with conditions in Exhibit B of the staff reporter. With that I will stand for questions. Moe: Any questions of staff? Rohm: No, sir. Moe: Okay. Would the applicant like to come forward? Grime: Good evening. It's still evening. My name is Evelyn Grime. I'm the architect. I'm the architect and planner on this project. My address is Place Design and Planning, 100 Main Street, Suite 201, Boise. 83702. Nice to be here. And my coach turns into a pumpkin, too. So_, I have amended my comments just to stay as short as I can and would encourage you to ask lots of questions. There is a lot of detail in this project, there is a lot going on on three acres, and we have spent a good almost a year exploring different layouts and approaches and design schemes, anything from a standard subdivision to what you see in front of you today. We have had four pre- application meetings and we have really tried hard to work with staff before we ever got in front of you tonight to see if we have got a winner. There is one other thing I'd like to pass out and I'd like to do it now before getting into the discussion of our features. So, if I may, I'll give this to Nancy. And just quickly, what I'm handing out is an enlarged plan of our entrance knuckle coming from Cedar Grove.. Two of the items that I have included with this plan are a shaded box representing a car as it can travel around this directional island and into the private streets. In addition to that there are some 45 degree angle lines near the T intersection showing you the vision triangles. So, I think that will be a handy reference when we get to that part of our discussion. I have two other boards I'd like to put up. And my only concern here is I don't know how well Commissioner O'Brien can see and so if I need to move out of the way or if you want me to pull something up, I would be happy to do so. And my caffeine probably has not worn off, so let me introduce you to the Villas @Lochsa Falls. What we have tried to do Meridian Planning & Zoning March 6, 2008 Page 65 of 80 here is look at our context and our context says that Comprehensive Plan shows that this could be, you know, up to an R-8 in density. Part of the reasons we have combined this with an R-15 condominium plat private street application is our ultimate goal was to be as -- condense the hard-scape as much as possible, condense the streets, and open up the open space as much so we have a neighborhood feel and rather than coming in here with a public street, which we tried different -- different layouts and every time we tried the public street approach it took up so much of the site and created a very unpleasant condition for any of the neighbors, because you would end up with a street running north-south right along the western property line here, which is very unfriendly to the three neighbors. Now, I'd ask you to look at this plan. You have three neighbors along your western boundary and you have three neighbors along your northern boundary. Across Linder Road you have got Rocky Mountain High and this lot remains a tree farm, I think. So, the design goal here was to integrate with the existing Lochsa Falls and to be similar to the existing Lochsa Falls as far as buildings next door, massing of structure, heights, architectural finishes. And our solution to this created a knuckle here where you come in at a directional travel and you go around a tree island and you come into the site -- this is where the private roads start. The next design tool is to take these twins and complete the architecture of these twins in such a way that they look like a single family home from the street from either direction. So, if we look at this home, one of the front doors is here, coming in directly from the street. If we look at this one, the front door enters from the side. So, when you look at this front elevation you see a single family home. Another design to take apair -- or I call them twins. I have twins. That's why. And put it next to a single. So, at any point in the development, except right here, you don't have any pairs that are side by side. This is some of the way that we go away from that look of row homes. I heard Mr. O'Brien's comment earlier that he doesn't really like the look of row homes, but my goal as an architect is always to say this lives and breathes like two homes, but it looks like a single family on the street. And based on what it's next to, it also reads like a single family home. The other design tool that we use were these driveways. One of our challenges, given by staff and one that all of us agree with are recess the garages. Well, when you come in with a public street here or you try to lay this out in a standard traditional plat, you force your design into front loaded garages. By using the private street layout and by pairing these homes, we are able to push the garage to the back, have a ten foot wide drive here, this is an old fashioned ribbon strip driveway, with the landscaping in the center, but you can still go to the back here and flair out and have a full two car garage. But the emphasis is on the front door and the front porch and on trellises that, again., bring the attention away from the garage, but say, you know, welcome into my side yard. In this plat what I have done is all of the light green is public outdoor open space or front yards that's not private space. Everything that is dark green is meant to indicate that private outdoor space, as you would find in a single family home. To talk about the different amenities and follow up on Bill's presentation, I think starting, again, from our entrance, what makes this unique is we have a way of coming in and traffic calming this, you know, what would otherwise be a very wide straight shot through, by putting a tree island in the middle we are able to direct traffic around, slow it down, at this entry. Another amenity is the walking path that he mentioned and this is where we are asking for alternative compliance here. The idea Meridian Planning & Zoning March 6, 2008 Page 66 of 80 was to connect this neighborhood in a more traditional fashion as you walk along the sidewalk and you greet your neighbors. So, there is a dedicated walking path this way. And this four foot pathway is in addition to the 24 foot wide private street. And I think when Bill described that earlier it almost sounded like it was 24 feet, including the sidewalk. It's actually 24 feet plus the four foot walking path. And, then, when you reach the intersection of this T street, the surface area of that walking path changes just to say pay attention, you're coming to an intersection. When we come towards Linder Road, you know, whenever you have a landscape buffer here you have a choice of saying we want a ten foot buffer and we want to ignore the rest of the world... That's not our choice here. What we'd like to do is integrate and connect with Rocky Mountain High School and the rest of the world, but do it in a softer way. So, what we have is a three foot berm, plus a rock wall fence that runs the length of this and I have included tonight -- Bill was so kind to put these in with his report as well -- sections of this berm to show you how the pathway works. Thank you, Bill -- with our area. So, if we look here at my board, this landscape berm picture is heading north and south, this happens at the north end section and at the south end section where there isn't a pathway and what you have is Linder Road, it's proposed with a bike lane, a detached sidewalk. These are based on ACRD plans and Scott with Mason Stanfield can correct me if I have this incorrect. I think this is the most current plan. And., then, we raised a three foot berm and, then, this -- a rock wall that takes this separation -- this vertical separation to four feet at this point. And, then, that berm falls back towards the structure. And this berm all along here can be landscaped with trees and bushes and shrubs. When we move forward to where the walking path occupies part of that landscape buffer, this is what it looks like. So, again, you have got your Linder Road bike lane, sidewalk, that berm comes up to three feet, this is a rock wall that comes up one foot above the top of the berm, plus another foot of wrought iron. And this pergola structure that you see in the background, there are two, there are these entry pergolas here and, then, a central fountain pergola here. So, what you're looking at in this picture is the fountain pergola you were walking along the sidewalk towards that fountain area. Now, for open space requirements, part of what the code says is that you can -- you're required to have this landscape buffer along an arterial, but in order to count that -- and I counted this towards the open space requirement, because we have a greater than four foot vertical separation between the road and the walking path, because at this point this rock wall, plus the wrought iron is five feet. However, the wrought iron, I personally still like, because now walking along this path I can still look out across Linder Road, I can still look at the high school. I don't feel like I'm walking in a tunnel. And the idea is to open this up and create a very nicely landscaped parking -- you know, parkway path. The third point of our berm section is right here at the pergola over the fountain., which I have drawn here, we have our Linder sidewalk and our berm and now this wall is curving out to create this semi circle plaza. The pergola is above it. In here would be the fountain and now, you know, you have got a larger gathering space. You know, this gathering space is -- you know, if you were to take this curved section, plus the sidewalk, is about 500 square feet. You know, it's not a courtyard size, it's large enough to have a group of people stop and sit and talk. So, I imagine you will have some questions about the berm, because I had some questions about the berm as I was designing it, but we come back to any of those as you like. Bill, if we could go back to the elevations, please. Meridian Planning '8 Zoning March 6, 2008 Page 67 of 80 What I'd like to point out on the elevations, because this is another really key component with our design -- in respect to neighbor privacy -- and privacy goes two directions -- the upstairs building footprints are darker than the one story footprints. So, what I've tried to illustrate with this rendering is the upstairs massing steps back considerably from the property line in all directions. So, if we are along the western boundary, you have got your -- a one story garage and, then, your second story starts here, so that between this property line and your home is close to 30 feet. And the same thing happens along this northern boundary. The distance from the property line to the one story residential area, not the garage, but the master bath, actually, is 18 feet and by the time they get to the second story, again, you're close to 30 feet. And this is a design tool to keep this compatible with the neighbors, which are a lower density, but we are trying to make it look and breath and feel similar in density. So, if we look at elevations, this illustrates our side elevation where the garage is one story and, then, you go to that second story mark, these are the interior courtyards that every home has and, then, this is the front porch. And this is a front porch that shows that door coming from the side. In the rear this dashed line shows where the six foot fence would ride. These windows are true, because if you look at this roof line, this is coming back down, which lets us put a full side window in here for bedroom egress, but from the back side protects the privacy of that bedroom and protects the privacy of the neighboring property owner. So, if we look at this elevation or any of these, you could imagine that this is my property line, I come over ten feet, here is my garage, now I'm close to 30 feet. Here is my second story. So, to go through those items I hope that it illustrates just how much thought we have tried to work into this and meet all of the different code requirements, but still have something that I think is unique and that doesn't just give up the landscape buffer along Linder to the car. That's another -- I think that's a personal thing that I bring to this that just says we are creating neighborhoods here, we are creating avenues of ears. So, I really like that in the code where you could say I can still use the space for people space if I have four foot vertical separations and there is our walking path. So, aside from that, I would rather just go right into questions, because we are short on time and energy. I think I clarified the street widths. ACHD is already constructing Linder Road and our preliminary plat -- originally when we submitted it we thought, well, it would all be one common lot and after we submitted it was pointed out that we needed to separate the buffer lot from the residential lot. So, I do have that shown on this plan and I know that Scott's already addressed that on his plan back at the office and I don't think that's an issue. If you look at this streetscape here, this is looking directly -- directly from Linder Road this is the straight elevation, but it also can show you -- here is my property line. There is the massing step back and I step down, here is that entry pergola that allows some pedestrian connection through a gate to Linder Road., so it doesn't completely block my connections with the outside neighbor, besides Lochsa Falls. And., then, I have two homes here. This is our central garden and plaza pergola. And., again, then, this is our second access pergola to Linder Road.. Now, the streets that you see in the I shape, they are happening right here, so, you know, this a to scale real depiction of the space we have between our buildings. And, again, we do actually want to design every elevation different where there wouldn't be any repetition, not just repetition side by side. And Dustin just reminded me that our major topic of discussion is the idea of our open space with the cabana and if you have Meridian Planning & Zoning March 6, 2008 Page 68 of 80 the site plans that Bill passed out, this side plan study -- so let me briefly say how I came up with the open space math. From my perspective I felt we had met the requirements, because I was including this section of area along this walking path, plus the area about the cabana, plus this section of the walking path, because it completes our recreational walking path around the neighborhood.. So, I added all that up and came close to -- well, I think I was about a thousand square feet shy of what Bill said needed to come up with, so I said, okay, well, how about we add to this area and we meet the other requirements of enlarging the cabana and enlarging our outdoor amenity space and that's the plan that you have in front of you in an enlarged plan. The differences are this: This home has gotten smaller. One parking space has gone away. To meet our parking we are required to have eight, with ten, so I don't believe the loss of one space here is a detriment. And in your plan you will see the cabana has moved forward to meet the ten foot setback as requested and it has been expanded to 240 square feet. The trellis area has shortened this way, but enlarged to the side and this is a location that would be a great opportunity for a barbecue pit or something else that would increase the gathering space amenity. The pool has remained the same size, but there is more open green space here. So, if I do the same calculation with this area and this is just -- when. I do that calculation I'm just following the line of that wall, I'm not including this. So, if I take this area, the expanded area, and this section, we are actually 50 square feet over -- 49 and a half square feet over the 7,350. So, one thing that the code doesn't allow us to do is count these private backyard spaces in any way. So, I can say that this site plan is 30 percent landscaping -- 30 percent soft compared to a lot of this density that wouldn't reach that by any means. In addition to not being able to count these, though, I feel we are meeting our outdoor open space with this change and doing so in a way that doesn't require the loss of a home. So, what I would ask you to do is give us an opportunity to take this to Council, understand that we are going to continue to work with staff and come to a compromise that we are all happy with and I'd like to stand for questions. And, forgive me, I'm tired to, so I'm really trying not to ramble, but -- O'Brien: Mr. Chairman, I have one. Moe: Yes. O'Brien: The fire egress, did they have any questions about the fact that these garages right here could potentially be a problem of interference with vehicles -- Grime: Actually, no, because -- I'm sorry, Mr. Chairman, Commissioner O'Brien, I'm tired.. I have sat down -- and, actually, Scott Stanfield has also sat down with Joe Silva on some different occasions here and these are private streets and anything narrower than 29 feet has to be posted no parking. So, parking is not allowed on these streets just because they are 24 feet wide, plus -- technically, they are 28 feet wide, but there is no parking allowed on either side of the street, hence, the guest parking is a must. In addition to that, when I spoke with Joe Silva and John Overton, we also talked about including signs for towing and this something I think has been recently done where the homeowners association just steps up and says we have a towing agent on retainer and Meridian Planning & Zoning March 6, 2008 Page 69 of 80 if my neighbor doesn't like where someone else is parked or there is a problem, you call the towing company, you don't have to work with the city or call code enforcement or that type of thing and if you come out and your car is gone, you call the towing company. The number is right there. It's kind of aself-serving thing. And so far as emergency service vehicles, you know, the idea is, actually, you could park three cars in many of these tandem driveways -- interesting to see who draws the short straw, but, you know, there is -- there are places to park that are -- don't require you to park on the street and the other concern I know that Joe Silva has just been verified that we meet the minimum maximum turning radiuses for emergency vehicles and we actually have several drawings now that show that we do, in fact, meet that. I think it's a matter of testing the built product in the end that -- on paper it's working very nicely. And that's one of the reasons I included this enlarged plan, too, showing the parking and the vision triangles, just to give you a sense of it, because you look at this and you think, well, that's not very big. Well, you know, this is 53 feet from there to there and only ten's taken up by landscaping, so in most of the cases this is 29 feet here and it just gets wider from there. O'Brien: That's all I have. Thank you.. Moe: I'm kind of curious, this area right here, is that new open space here or what is that right there? Grime: In this first plan that was private space for this home, with their front porch being here and a little bit of a front yard., but I felt that with parking here it might be kind of obnoxious, so originally it was fenced yard with a private space. Under the new plan this is reduced, but this could be a four foot fence, not a six foot fence, but it's still private yard space to this home and in your new plan it's moved over about this much. So, if you take this first parking stall, move your sidewalk over to there, and all of that area now has gone into that public open space. Does that answer your question? Moe: Well -- and, then, what kind of square footage are we speaking of in there? Where I'm getting that, I understand that your making the common space all over your project, but I'm not seeing any dedicated space for a gathering spot for any sizable group, other than on, you know, pavement and whatnot, no real big green space. That's what I'm looking for. Grime: Okay. So, to answer that, in the amended plan that you have in front of you, this area -- going from memory here, but I believe this is 2,.675 square feet and this whole side of it here, there is a large patio for gathering space and, then, as fhe trellis wraps around, there is a large area here for gathering space. Moe: Plan of the trellis looks like it really starts going towards the home quite a bit. Okay. Well, we can review that. Grime: And I think those are some of the finer details that we can -- we can continue to refine. Meridian Planning & Zoning March 6, 2008 Page 70 of 80 Moe: Are there any other questions of the applicant? O'Brien: I have none. Moe: Okay. Thank you very much. Grime: Thank you. Moe: There was no one signed up, but if there is someone that would like to speak, you're more than welcome to come forward. One coming up. Stanfield: I'll make it real quick. Scott Stanfield, Mason Stanfield Engineering, 314 Badiola in Caldwell, Idaho. Two things. In our neighbor meeting there was no opposition to this. Second of all, on a condo plat we are controlled by state code and anything that is not aunit -- in other words, a living unit in this case, is automatically a common area, so you don't differentiate a landscape common area along Linder Road. The whole thing is a common area, except for the living unit. So, we are pretty sure the county surveyor will bounce it back if he sees a lot line right there on the common plat. So, that's why the preliminary plat doesn't show a dedicated common lot, because it's not a unit there, it's a common area. That's it. Moe: Any questions? Thank you. Anyone else that would like to come up. Okay. No one's coming forward. Any questions of staff, Commissioners? Bill, I guess I would ask based upon the new plan that you received in regards -- I'm just trying to get a handle on the open space. What is staffs recommendation based upon the new plan? Parsons: Chairman Moe, Commissioners, staff still. would be supportive of having -- you know, maybe not losing a unit, but still having some kind of open space if they were able to maybe turn that building 90 degrees that one single unit there, turn that somehow and make it still work and provide additional open space on that side -- on the -- I guess the west side of the cabana and pool site and try to have some kind of additional open space for residents in the area to congregate. Other than that we still feel like there should be some additional open space, even with the revised plan that they provided. Moe: Okay. Thank you very much. Newton-Huckabay: Mr. Chair? Moe: Commissioner Newton-Huckabay. Newton-Huckabay: So, the personal -- the dark green -- the dark green areas here in between these --these four units -- this is for all four residents? Moe: Yeah. That's basically private space inside, it's not common space. Meridian Planning & Zoning March 6, 2008 Page 71 of 80 Newton-Huckabay: Well, I understand that. But it's for the use of everyone who lives in -- either here, here, here, or here. It's fenced -- it's private yards. Oh. Moe: From the audience the applicant said it was private. Newton-Huckabay: Sorry. Okay. I would be in favor of a little more obvious green gathering area, as Bill stated, too. That is my only problem. It's a lot going on on this small piece of property, but I think it works really well. I'd just like to see a little picnic area, something like that I think would be really -- really nice there. But I do like what you did with the berm along Linder. That's very nice. Moe: Commissioner O'Brien. O'Brien: Yeah. Along with that I think that if you expand -- if you expand that area, I'm concerned about the lack of parking there for guests that may want to utilize this with the owners of the -- or residents there. I still -- I think that's -- the number of parking -- excess parking is lacking. I don't know what the number is, but if you add more space and have more functions in the larger functions, where are they going to park? Moe: But per the code they only need eight and they have got ten. O'Brien: I agree. That's just an observation. Newton-Huckabay: Are you thinking -- Mr. Chair? Moe: Yes. Newton-Huckabay: Commissioner O'Brien, are you thinking that like these people are going to drive up here? O'Brien: Oh, that could be, but -- Newton-Huckabay: Rather than walk? O'Brien: I don't know. But if they -- if you have a function going on and people from the outside that are family or friends stop by, I'm just saying -- suggesting that along with normal visitors you're going to have an influx and they can't park on the street, so they have to park outside of the residences or -- I don't know. It's just a question. It's just a concern, I guess. But if it meets code, it meets code. Newton-Huckabay: They could park over at Rocky Mountain and take this regional path. O'Brien: There you go. There you go. I'll shut up. Meridian Planning & Zoning March 6, 2008 Page 72 of 80 Newton-Huckabay: No. That's good. Moe: Are there any other comments from the Commissioners? Marshall: Comments? Moe: Comments. Marshall: I'm especially -- I especially like the way the garages and things are setback. I really like that. I like the streetscape. I don't have a problem with the parking. I think that's a very good point that Rocky Mountain has a huge parking lot over there and it is right across the street. I am concerned about the open space, because I used to -- mean this is a pathway, this is not a gathering spot to me. I think -- I like this, but I'm not going to gather next to somebody's garage to sit and talk to my neighbors and stuff. You know, if this -- if you had a large area where there was a barbecue pit and stuff like that, but your new shows more space here, your new design, but that ten foot if there is any kids in there, you're still in the splash Zone. I mean this -- I would want to be back away from that pool if I wanted to sit and watch kids in the pool or something like that. -- again, I would like to see a little larger gathering space. I really like the architecture and the way the garages are setback and I really like that, but -- I guess that's all I have. Moe: Okay. Thank you. Mr. Rohm, do you have any comment? Rohm: None. Moe: Okay. That was quick enough. Quite frankly, I really like the project. It's got a great look to it and everything else, but I, too, I have one major problem and that is the gathering space, you know, there is just -- something needs to be done up there. I don't know whether we -- you know, this building turns, therefore, allowing additional space here. I don't know whether you can do that. We are still open, if you could come up, maybe, and address that I would appreciate that. Grime: Love to. Evelyn Grime again. And, actually, there are -- I'm a firm believer that we can solve everything through design. So, again, we can take the plan that we have already started to amend and just keep working with it. As far as the area here for this square footage of home, we can still meet our promised goals of three bedroom, two and a half bath, master bedroom down by changing the footprint on this. Originally I was trying to keep this wall back at this 18 foot line, simply for being considerate of the northern neighbor. But we can go over the garage a little bit and we can come a little bit closer and square this building up, as opposed to making it elongated and still have very good private outdoor open space., a great front porch and front entry and I think we can do it with only losing one parking space and adding quite a bit of green space to the pool and cabana area. I think the plan that you're looking at that shows the expanded ,trellis -- and a part of that trellis is over landscaped area, too, and that patio -- I'm going from memory here, because I don't have it front of me. The patio is this way and that plan is 13 feet to the apron. It's still another five feet to the pool. But now it's close to -- Meridian Planning 8~ Zoning March 6, 2008 Page 73 of 80 I want to say 20 feet wide and that's just in this area. And when you come around the side, it's showing a ten foot section of landscaping that can be widened., because this can turn and this building footprint can change and so when this changes, this goes from dark green to light green and, then, we achieve that gathering space. The parking -- I'd like to address Commissioner O'Brien's question -- and I think it's a good question of any neighborhood, you know, what do you do when you have a party. The idea here is, you know, these four guest spaces are to compensate for these four homes -- these four and four of these, so that these have guest parking spaces within 75 feet of their front door. However, you know, the likelihood of everyone having a party at the same time is kind of remote. So, I think that, you know, parking here and parking here is available for those types of occasions, plus if I -- if I come over and see this guy and I have been here before, I know that I can park in this driveway and walk over if one of these isn't open, and I can come from across the street. So, I really do think that through the redesign of this home we can achieve a really nice open space here that retains the intimacy of the neighborhood, but still -- you know, you could have 30 people. I don't think we are too far away from that with the site plan that you have in front of you. If we -- you know, to take us out of the splash zone we could also scoot the pool over. You know, this pool is intended as a small pool, an exercise pool, you know, get wet, have some fun. It's not a municipal pool. So, with that in mind., those dimensions in the standard industry are, you know ten to 12 feet wide and 30 -- about 30 feet long, still plenty of room for kids to play and -- you know, or for you to do a few laps. Moe: Okay. What kind of a time frame would it take you to see what you could do and, then, show us a new site plan with that? Grime.: Well, my concern is this: I know -- and I'll just be candid, I think my client -- again, we have spent so much time in some of our four pre-application meetings in really looking at different options that, you know, their option on the property, we are running up against a deadline and that's why if there was any way to say keep working on it, this is the condition, go onto Council, knowing that we are going to keep working on it as we have illustrated, we would ask for that, because we are running into our option deadline here. And so I asked this earlier and they said., yeah, two weeks puts us into trouble with that. Moe: Well, let me ask staff. I'm kind of curious of one thing. Bill, do you have an area as far as the square footage -- additional area that you would be looking for? In that area where we are at. I guess my point being if anything we could do a condition that they require an additional X amount of square footage and that be shown prior to Council Hood: Mr. Chair, if you don't mind me fielding that one. I guess I'd put it maybe back on the applicant with the revised, layout of that house, where does that put the -- for the east -- you know, property or building line, so how much room, then, are we talking between that building line and the trellis area or what's available there. I mean you're looking at a small yard for whoever is going to take that -- in fact., they will probably have Meridian Planning & Zoning March 6, 2008 Page 74 of 80 virtually no front yard and no rear yard.. But they will back up -- they will be right next to a common area, so -- but that's the dimension we really need is when you go with livable above the garage, how far over are you going, because I'd like to see all of that, then, included into the -- the open space, whatever is available outside of that. Grime.: So, looking at this revised plan, the open -- just to clarify the revised plan, the open space between the apron of the pool and the fence of the home number three -- you know, that's like 12 feet. So, if we were to take that another five feet, that gives us, you know, a considerable area of open space beside the pool. Also, we can take the pool and we can push it a little bit further to the right to increase the green space between the pool and the parking and the fence line of the home. And., Caleb, I think that the back yard space, even if we push that rear building wall to the north a little bit, you know, I wouldn't feel comfortable going with less than 15 feet, which in an urban condition is a backyard.. So, I think they still can have a very nice private backyard and I think we can still create a great front porch., front yard., with this court yard effect, you know, still happening, but give another five -- probably no more than ten feet, but I think five to seven is easy and still maintain the quality of living around home number three. But, again, realize that between the apron of the pool and the fence right now there is 12 feet, so if you add another five feet, that's 17 feet. Hood: And, Mr. Chair, just to kind of put this in context to some of our other code and most of it revolves around subdivisions, but for it to even qualify as open space in our residential stuff it needs to be at least 20 feet wide before we even start to count it. And I'm thinking of -- you know, if I want to go toss a frisbee with my buddy, where am I going to go. Something 20 feet wide maybe, 25 is probably ideal by the length of that from parking stall to the north. So, you just asked what we would be looking for, that's what I would be looking for is something that's usable, maybe something in there. Because it really isn't anywhere like that on the site. So, if we can get a couple more feet, you know, again, from the edge of the pool or the decking of the pool, 20 to 25 feet of green space in there, if that's possible, I mean I think that's -- that's ideal from a use standpoint. I'm just saying if I lived in there I would want something like that. And I don't know what the length is of that from parking stall to your north property boundary or what that gives you in square footage, but -- Grime: May I .answer? Moe: Yes. Grime: Okay. So, actually, from our north boundary from -- not from the parking stall, but if you look at this from the street, you know, you have got 40 feet there by the time you come to the trellis and, then, again, I think we can go wider. I would like to point out, kind of like the parking condition, we have got Rocky Mountain High School across the street, if you really want to throw your frisbee or play football, I'm probably going to go across the street. But for a quick run around play tag with the little ones, I think we are close to a solution there. I am trying to keep it so that we have enough frontage for home number three and have that master bedroom down, just from a house plan design Meridian Planning & Zoning March 6, 2008 Page 75 of 80 point of view. I'm just trying to make sure I can still deliver on that promise. However, you know, I think we are really close. Again, we could create that 20 feet of grassy area by moving the pool to the right, maybe we even bring the pool down a little narrower, make it a smaller size width of pool to increase our grassy space to the left and the apron -- standard apron is three feet wide. So, that's a safety concern, because that needs to remain three feet wide, but you can still take your pool to the right and increase your grassy area to the left by modifying home number three and I would say, you know, if we could achieve an area here that's 20 feet wide between the apron and the fence line for the home of number three, you know, that provides one large area space, we could shift the parking lot to the left also. One reason I did not do that is my pathways look so pretty here, but, you know, really, that can be done, the whole -- that whole section can shift over and we still have enough room there for a class two tree, possibly a class three. Moe: I guess my biggest concern -- Grime: And have a nice front point entry. Moe: -- right now is -- is that we are not able to really define what we are going to do to resolve this, so, therefore, you know, I think we are going to have to continue this thing. Grime: Okay. Moe: That would be a recommendation that I would give the rest of the Commission.., would be to consider a continuance if, in fact, you think you can make this work, you know -- Grime: Or could we suggest that we will meet 20 feet clear between the apron of the pool and home number three, the grassy area, as a condition, because I think we can meet that by the adjustments that I have mentioned. And if we can't meet it, then, we are going to be back here to see you anyway. But I mean just~working through that, you know, give me half an hour and I can draw it for you, too. I think we are fhat close. But I guess Caleb and Bill would want to concur if 20 feet clear grassy area would work for you. Moe: We are speaking of 20 foot and,, then, all the way up. Grime:: I understand.. Moe: From the parking all the way -- Grime: Correct. And I would even adjust the parking. If I can bring it all the way to the street I'll do that, too. Without losing anymore parking. Meridian Planning & Zoning March 6, 2008 Page 76 of 80 Moe: Well, again., on most projects that come through here, any type of site change and whatnot, this Commission has not gone ahead and approved things without seeing the revision prior to going to City Council. Grime: I understand. Moe: So, I'm going to ask the other Commissioners what their opinion is of this before we -- because I'm only one. And I will just go down the line.. Newton-Huckabay: I don't really have any issue. If we get a commitment for -- I'd say we get a commitment of total square footage or total foot, move on with it, they have done a great job designing the rest of the site, I'm pretty confident that whatever house three -- the footprint's going to be fine, because I don't have any problem really moving it forward. It would be one thing if we were moving a lot of buildings and that kind of thing, but -- Moe: Okay. Commissioner Rohm. Rohm: I think that I would concur with Commission Newton-Huckabay, as long as we get a definition from staff to what their expectations are and as long as they can make their architectural changes that match the staffs stipulation, then, I have no problem moving it forward either. Moe: Commissioner Marshall? Marshall: I am of the same mind. Moe: Okay. Commissioner O'Brien. O'Brien: I, too. I think there is a myriad of possibilities there of getting that much space and I don't see there is any issue at all. Moe: Okay. Thank you very much. I would actually agree and I'm just -- I am just wanting to get staff to give us a little bit of direction, so that when someone makes a motion we know where we are going. Newton-Huckabay: Mr. Chair? Moe: Yes. Newton-Huckabay: Could we recommend if we form a motion in a form that the applicant will add an additional ten feet to the -- to the existing open space or increase the existing ten feet from the apron of the pool to 20 feet to the west, would that be sufficient? That will give us the 20 foot -- Marshall: Through the latest -- Meridian Planning & Zoning March 6, 2008 Page 77 of 80 Parsons: Mr. Chairman? Newton-Huckabay: Yes. I'm sorry. This revision. Parsons: Mr. Chairman, Commissioners, staff originally just request that we remove the whole -- one unit altogether and so if you guys are so inclined, feel that you want to add that provision to that, we will let you decide on that. But right now it's -- we leave it up to our -- we don't design the projects, we -- basically, we are just saying, okay, this is the easiest way to go with it, remove a unit and provide an additional amenity and the applicant didn't want to lose that additional unit, so -- and that's understandable. I mean they spent a lot of time and effort on this project. So, I -- at this time I can't picture if you guys are so inclined to do that, I guess we will do that, but I'll leave it in your court. Moe: Any recommendation right now, it's -- it's to delete one. Parsons: That's how I wrote the staff report, yes. Rohm: We are not closed yet, so -- Moe: No, we are not. Grime: So, I wonder if that condition can be amended through the motion to -- you know, along the lines that if the additional open space if 20 feet of open grassy area on the west side of the pool can be provided, then, a unit doesn't have to be taken out, along those lines. I don't know if you can do that and in your motion amend that condition. I don't know -- so, that be would my -- my thought is can we take that condition and amend it so that we are not taking a unit out as a solution, but rather. providing an alternative solution with a minimum of 20 feet of grassy open area to the west side of the pool. You know, modifying unit number three as necessary. Newton-Huckabay: I'm okay with that, just with the exception of I don't want to see the pool moved to get that. Grime: Okay. Newton-Huckabay: I want to see you gain the ten extra feet from this revision, but I don't want you to get that by getting five of it by pushing the pool over. Grime.: I wouldn't have that much anyway. Talking inches. Hood: I'm sorry, Mr. Chair, I'm just going to jump in real quick and comments have been made about the open space -- it needs to be common open space. That's the whole driving thing that everyone -- it shouldn't just be a rear or side yard for that building three, it needs to be open for the general community to use. So, if you could Meridian Planning & Zoning March 6, 2008 Page 78 of 80 use that language, common open area of at least 20 feet wide, so it's not their backyard or side yard or however that units going to be reoriented. Grime: That's certainly my intent., yeah.. Marshall: An expansion of the current common area? Newton-Huckabay: Okay. Is everyone in agreement with that verbiage, basically where we -- Rohm.: I like that. Marshall: I think so. O'Brien: Yes. Moe: Bill, do you know what condition that is in your report that would need to be revised? Newton-Huckabay: I don't have this one printed out. Rohm.: While we are doing it, let's close the Public Hearing, do you want to? Newton-Huckabay:. Yeah, go ahead. Rohm: All right. Mr. Chairman? Moe: Yes, Mr. Rohm. Rohm: I move we close the Public Hearing on AZ 07-020 -- well, excuse me. It's, actually, AZ 08-002 and PP 08-002 and CUP 08-003. Moe: Love to if I can get a second.. Newton-Huckabay: Second. Moe: It's been moved and seconded to close the Public Hearing on AZ 08-002, PP 08- 002 and CUP 08-003. All those in favor say aye. Opposed same sign? That motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Newton-Huckabay: I'm still looking for that condition, so bear with me just a minute. Moe: We are bearing. Meridian Planning & Zoning March 6, 2008 Page 79 of 80 Parsons: Mr. Chairman., Commissioners, one bullet point is in the development agreement requirement provisions. We said construct a maximum of 20 units. That's condition 1.1.2. Newton-Huckabay: If I amend that one will that cover it? 1.1.2? Parsons: Yes. And., then, also in the Conditional Use Permit section, condition 1.4.1, bullet number one, it also references removing the one unit to the north and incorporate more open space around the pool and cabana area. Newton-Huckabay: Okay. Parsons: So, if we can change that to say 21 units, possibly, in the DA and, then, just revise That to an additional 20 -- your 20 foot common area, to the cabana area. Newton-Huckabay: Okay. Will do. Parsons: And I'd also like to point out which are you preferring that additional amenity, too, as far as the picnic area or anything in that open space? Or do you want to strike that requirement as well? Newton-Huckabay: No. Afire pit and kind of -- a barbecue area Marshall: A barbecue area of something like that. Newton-Huckabay: Okay. Marshall: An additional amenity. Newton-Huckabay: Additional amenity. After considering all staff and applicant testimony, I move the approval of file numbers AZ 08-002., PP 08-002, and CUP 08-003. Do we reference the two -- the public street and the alternative -- it's not -- as presented in the staff report for the hearing date of March 6, 2008, with the following modifications: On bullet point number 1.1.2 in the annexation and zoning conditions of approval, bullet number one., construct a maximum of 20 units on this site and comply with the site landscape plan and elevations submitted with the CUP, should read construct a maximum of 21 units. Okay. And on the Conditional Use Permit, bullet 1.1.4, revise that bullet to read that the applicant will increase the open -- common open space in the northeast area of the property by increasing the area. from the apron of the pool from ten foot to -- from ten to 20 foot west. Is that clear enough, everybody? And, then, bullet one that reads revise the site plan by removing one of the units along the north boundary and incorporate the area into common open space around the cabana and pool area, a maximum 20 units are approved, a minimum of 7,000 square feet of common open space shall be provided. Change that to a maximum of 20 units are approved -- 21. And strike the first sentence, revise the site plan by removing one of the units along the north boundary. And change that to -- Meridian Planning 8 Zoning March 6, 2008 Page 80 of 80 Moe: And the amenity? Newton-Huckabay: And, then, I guess a third bullet there would be to add an additional amenity in that area such as a barbecue pit or -- is that what we -- such as, but not limited to, a barbecue pit. Rohm: Second.. Newton-Huckabay: I do believe that's the end of my motion. Moe: Are you done with your motion. Is there a second? It's been moved and seconded to move onto City Council approving AZ 08-002, PP 08-002, and CUP 08- 003., including all staff comments and modification as noted.. All those in favor say aye. Opposed same sign? That motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Marshaih Mr. Chairman, I'd like to move that we adjourn. Rohm: Second. Newton-Huckabay: Second. Moe: It's been moved and second to adjourn. In favor? Opposed? Motion carries MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Moe: 11:50. We are adjourned. MEETLNG ADJOURNED AT 11:50 P.M. (TAPE ON FfLE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS.) APPROVED DAVID MOE - CHAfRMAN I DATE APPROVED ATTEST: JAYCEE HOLMAN, CITY CLERK