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HomeMy WebLinkAboutFebruary 26, 2008 C/C MinutesMeridian City Council February 26, 2008 Page 58 of 77 MOTION CARRIES: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT. De Weerd: Okay. Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, thanks. Sorry that one was a little convoluted, but thank you for sticking with us on that. Item 18: Public Hearing: IZZ 07-019 Request for a Rezone of 0.602 of an acre from I-L to C-G zone for Rockin KB Saloon by Patrick McKeegan - 3163 East Lanark: Item 19; Public Hearing: CUP 07-019 Request for Conditional Use Permit approval of a drinking establishment in a proposed C-G zone for Rockin KB Saloon by Patrick McKeegan - 3163 East Lanark: De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Items 18 and 19 are public hearings on RZ 07-019 and CUP 07-019. I will open these two public hearings with staff comments. Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is the Rockin KB Saloon project. It's located at 3163 .East Lanark Street on the southwest corner of Eagle Road and Lanark. The applications before you tonight include a rezone and conditional use approval. The highlights of the proposed development are the rezone of 2.20 acres from 1-L to C-G zoning and the Conditional Use Permit for the operation of a drinking establishment in the proposed C-G district. The gross square footage of the structure is 8,.042 square feet. It an existing structure. The Comprehensive Plan designation is currently for industrial. The property just north of this was just today approved for commercial designation, so it's surrounded pretty much by commercial. The proposed DA requirements, we aren't recommending a DA or the planning commission has not recommended a DA. The Conditional Use Permit would take care of any conditional requirements necessary for the drinking establishment. We do have elevations of the structure. And this is the floor plan. The floor plan does -- or the proposal does include a portion of the adjoining structure, that's where they would have some of their storage maintenance and bathroom facilities. I believe it's these two sections. The Commission recommended approval at their January 3rd, 2008, Public Hearing. The -- Patrick McKeegan spoke in favor of the applicant representing the -- spoke in favor of the application, representing the applicant. And Kevin Kelly, who is the applicant, also spoke. No one spoke in opposition. Ron Van Auker commented about the parking concerns. And written testimony was provided by Bradley Miller, also of Van Auker Properties. And those written testimonies, we have letters dated December 19th, January 3rd, and February 25th, all with regard to the parking issue. Key issues of discussion by the Commission were the adequacy of the off-street parking for the proposed use. The location of the restroom in the adjacent building and the landscaping sidewalk, what's in the street buffer along Eagle Road. The key Commission changes to staff recommendation., they add a condition of approval for the restroom facilities in the adjacent building to remain available as a condition of the Conditional Use Permit. And Meridian City Council February 26, 2008 Page 59 of 77 they added a condition of approval for a copy of the cross-parking agreement for the 69 off-street parking spaces to be provided with the certificate of zoning compliance application and remain in force as condition of the CUP. The outstanding issues for City Council -- parking remains an issue as raised in letters from Mr. Miller, again, dated February 25th, 2008. With that I'll answer any questions that the Council may have. I believe you got a copy of that letter in your packet today or in front of you today. De Weerd: I'm sorry. I'm pulling it up. You have to flip through 61 pages. Canning: I'm sorry. The outstanding issue is the parking. I'll summarize it. The UDC is just a per square footage basis, so with this use we would only require 16 parking spaces. They do have 69 spaces provided, but that includes shared parking with the adjacent site. They felt that the times would stagger on that, but the seating capacity for the use as stated in the application is 243. So, there is some question as to -- although the UDC doesn't require it, it certainly allows the Commission and Council the flexibility to consider parking -- the adequacy of the parking with relationship to the application.. De Weerd: So, Anna, how many total parking spaces, then? Canning: Will they have? De Weerd.: Uh-huh. Canning: Sixty-nine. De Weerd: Okay. So, tell me -- we have parking issues all the time with bars and Rudy's is our most recent one, where we are severely underparked. It's had negative affects on other business owners out there and I don't know what the answer is. Do you think -- and those aren't as big as this. So, do you think that's enough parking? Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, no. The situation you have here is you have a street section for an industrial property where you don't have curb, gutter, or sidewalk or improved edges to the street in this instance. I think there are instances where a bar should not need to provide necessarily all the parking that it may generate, but they could walk from a distance, but in this case the neighborhood just isn't set up well to receive parking on the street. There is just -- those facilities aren't built on those streets yet and they are industrial properties. So, I do believe there is a concern. De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Any questions, Council? Bird: I have none. Rountree I have none at this point. De Weerd: Okay. Meridian City Council February 26, 2008 Page 60 of 77 Zaremba: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes. Zaremba: It's not actually a question, but can you display a site plan again? Just to look at it. Canning: This is the structure where the saloon would be housed and, then, these are the facilities within the adjoining structure. And this is Eagle Road. Significant change in elevations here. Zaremba: Thank you. De Weerd: Thank you. Is the applicant here? If you will, please, state your name and address for the record. McKeegan: Madam Mayor, Council, my name is Patrick McKeegan. I'm an architect for the applicant in this item. My address is 280 North Latah, Suite 100, Boise, Idaho. And are we addressing both of them right now or just the rezone? De Weerd.: Both. McKeegan: Both at once? Okay. What you have before you are two -- are, really, two applications. We are asking for the rezone, because the use of the property and the development of Eagle Road for the properties contiguous to Eagle Road are more conducive to the commercial zoning, than the industrial zoning. I have been associated with this property for about five years from when it was the original -- the previous structure. We remodeled that to make it more of a -- to bring it more in line with -- with the commercial type uses than the industrial uses. The owner has -- consistently, the types of uses that have come into it have been more of a retail office type nature than an industrial nature and we feel that this -- the rezone -- the zoning is going to be appropriate for that. Getting to the -- to the conditional use. In our -- before the Planning and Zoning Commission, we addressed parking. As stated, in the -- you know, we have 69 spaces available on our property. The other uses for the property are a company that makes blinds for your windows and a furniture store, which is going to be coming online. Those uses are daytime uses. The proposed use for the Rockin KB Saloon is a nighttime use. It will start out at about 5:30 and go until to 2':00 a.m. So, there may be a little bit of overlap, but based on previous tenants and their current -- tenant parking census, we don't anticipate as significant number of parking of the parking spaces after 5:00 o'clock, you used for -- the uses in the north building. As stated, a required number of parking spaces, per the ordinance is 16. We would agree that that's slow. We feel that the 69 is adequate. If you look at -- at Lanark Street, which we did -- if you go 300 feet down the street, there are 29 on -- legal on-site spaces available and the road continues another 600 feet. So, while we are not allowed to consider off-site, on-street parking as a part of the application. In this case it is available. The ofiher unique factor we have in this case is if that is an industrial zone. For the most part, after the business Meridian City Council February 26, 2008 Page 61 of 77 day, except for some loading and unloading activities at some of the businesses, that street is vacant and it's not like we are -- it's not like a residential zone where there is people there and there is a lot of traffic on that street, so could anticipate that people utilizing that on-street parking as not a -- without a problem. Mr. Kelly, the tenant is going to offer some words about how he -- how his business is going to operate. It's not really fair to compare this to a -- I have heard of Rudy's. I don't know what it is. But this is more if an entertainment venue where you would have -- instead of having one person in a car coming, we are anticipating you're going to have, you know, two people, four people, coming. The inside of the building -- it's not wall to wall seats, actually, 33 to about 40 percent of the area inside the building is not core seating, it's for a stage, there is bull riding area, there is some other entertainment venues that are going to be in there, which Mr. -- Mr. Kelly will -- will elaborate on later. So, we believe that that's going to -- the parking will not be a problem. Specifically, getting to the details in the -- in the staff report and the conditions of approval for the conditional use, there is a recommendation that the sidewalks on Lanark Street be five feet wide. We went out and measured them, the ones that were installed as part of the previous application were five feet and they are five feet. There is one little corner in the northwest corner of the property -- if you can bring up the site plan -- if you look at the northwest corner of the property, there is about a six foot section between the driveway and our property line, which we did not put a sidewalk in or -- because it just -- it doesn't connect to anything. There aren't sidewalks currently on Eagle Road and there is no connection up to -- up to Eagle -- Eagle Road. But we'd be glad to put that six or eight foot section in if that's -- if that's a requirement of approval. Regarding -- there is a condition of approval asking for a multi-use path along -- along Eagle Road. We have been in communication with ITD, both on this project and on previous projects and we have consistently told that with the lifestyle center development that's happening north of here on Fairview Avenue, that there is going to be redevelopment of Eagle Road from Fairview south and at this point in time ITD has not determined what that -- what the details of that are going to be, except that it's going to require some widening of Eagle Road in this location. They have some conceptual plans, which I'm going to hand out. The first page I just handed out is sheet two of seven of ITD's conceptual plan, which is for the right of way -- or for the improvements along -- along the road.. The second page is a blowup of the area at the corner of Lanark and Eagle Road and what you will notice is north is towards the bottom of the sheet, that the ten foot pathway, which is the two red lines, actually ends on south -- on the north side of Lanark and.., then, from the north side of Lanark there is a single red line, which indicates a sidewalk up to -- from Lanark Street to -- to Franklin Road.. The reason for that is the same conclusion that we had and the same thing that we have been making a point of is at the north side of our property -- from our property line up to Eagle Road there is about a four foot elevation change. At the south side of our property you're anywhere from 18 to -- Eagle Road is at that point anywhere from 18 to 20 feet above our property. So, the road slopes off. There isn't a lot of room. And as they -- you can see that as they get closer to Franklin they are actually going to be -- they are planning on adding two lanes, one will be a dedicated turn lane onto Franklin and they are going to add a third through lane for traffic going -- going south on Eagle Road towards the -- towards the freeway. So, I think what they are -- what I'm seeing here, what I'm indicating here is that -- or the interpretation I have here is that the ten Meridian City Council February 26, 2008 Page 62 of 77 foot path is in an area where you're flat and you have the ability to have a ten foot path and you would maybe see pedestrians in that, but as you go up the hill and towards the road., they want to bring that down to a standard sidewalk size, because of the -- of the slope and the grading and not wanting to come in and having to put in the expensive retaining walls and everything that they are going to have if they were to put the full ten foot lane there. If we come down on our property, if you look at our site plan, we have 13 feet of landscaping between our parking lot and our -- or between our driveway and our -- and our parking lot -- or our property line. That was approved at the last conditional use hearing. When we built the south building as a trade off, we are providing more landscaping in the parking -- in the parking lot. We actually pulled the sidewalk and the paving away from the building and we put landscaping against the building, because, again, at that point, as stated in the staff report you have before you, the 35 foot buffer that you normally see around Eagle Road doesn't make any sense, because it drops off so fast that when you're in your car you can't even see the slope. And so we wanted to put the landscaping in the parking lot and that. If we were to come in that 13 foot wide buffer and use ten feet of that for alane -- or a pedestrian lane, then, we would really -- we would end up with no landscaping on the east side there, which is -- we don't want to do. We had had communications with ITD. They have requested that in regards to the ten foot -- in regards to the ten foot pedestrian lane and also any lighting that's been requested along there, that we defer that at this time, because they don't know what the specific designs are and they are concerned that if we go in and start just building things and they are going to be in there in two or three years tearing them out and moving them around. And so that's what we would like to request is that requirement not be enforced at this time, because we don't know what's going there, ITD doesn't know what's going there and it really isn't -- isn't feasible to the topography of the -- of the land. Regarding the conditions for landscaping, we are in agreement that the ten foot space along -- landscaping buffer along Lanark Street is not adequate and we are going to be beefing that up, adding trees and adding landscaping in accordance with the revised -- with the ordinance. In the parking lot we are going to be replacing some of the gravel with ground covers and additional planting materials to bring that into compliance with the stated requirements. There is one interior planter in the parking lot that was not constructed to the five foot width. We are going to correct that by moving the curb. And, then, there was a request for an addition of a -- of a landscape island next to the proposed outdoor seating. At this point in time we have decided not to go -- even though it's being recommended as a condition of approval and we would like to have the condition remain, at this time we don't anticipate putting in that outdoor seating and., therefore., the planter would not be .required because we'd just keep the parking that's there and there is already a planter at the end of that parking on the southern property line. What we would accept is an editing of that, that if we were to ever put in the outdoor seating that, then, we would be required to put in the landscape island at that -- at that point in time. There was also -- it was also pointed out to us that the trash enclosure needs to be upgraded from the chain link to a material compatible with the building. What we are proposing is the building is stucco and stone and we are proposing a tan colored split face masonry enclosure with metal gates to match the -- to be a -- to compliment the -- the building. There is also two -- two additional requirements. One that the restrooms be allowed -- because they are in another Meridian City Council February 26, 2008 Page 63 of 77 building., that we have some kind of an agreement in place. Basically, the agreement in place is a lease between the lease holder and the owner. The lease states that the -- if, for some reason, the property was to change ownership or the buildings were to change ownership or something., that as long as the -- as long as the -- the entertainment use is in -- is in use and has alease -- and has that, that the -- they also -- the lease goes with the -- with the property and that the owner of the north building could not change the terms of that without -- really just couldn't. It's a legal document. And also we are -- I thought we had the cross-parking agreement already recorded with the previous application, but apparently we don't, so we are in the process of getting that put together. And, finally, there is a requirement for us to work with staff on alternate compliance for a pathway from Eagle Road to the building. We already have a sidewalk along Lanark Street, which connects to a sidewalk, which connects to all the front doors of the buildings and, again, at this time, since Eagle Road is not improved at this time with any kind of a sidewalk or a walkway and ITD does not know exactly what form that's going to take, we would ask that that be deferred until we have some kind of an idea of what they are going to do and., then, we can react -- react to it. At this time I would just stand for any questions and I'd like to give the tenant, Mr. Kelly, an opportunity to actually speak about the business and what he's going to be doing there. De Weerd: Okay. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes. Bird: Anna, would you go back to the floor plan. What is that, about six foot walkway between the two buildings? McKeegan: It's actually -- it's aten -- Madam Mayor, Councilman Bird, it's a ten foot area walkway between the two. Bird: It's ten foot? McKeegan: Yes. And it's -- what isn't shown on that plan is there will no be direct access from -- from the public right of way back into the -- into that restroom area. We are going to put in a gate that exists only out, so they can maintain control of the people coming into the facility. They don't want people walking up there and coming in the back door. All the people -- all the customers will enter at the -- at the front door on the angled portion, on the lower right-hand corner in our drawing and, then, if they want to go to the restroom, they will go out the double doors over to the restroom and, then, back through that way. But we will have a -- Bird: B'ut you're going to have some kind of gate there -- McKeegan: Right. With a -- Meridian City Council February 26, 2008 Page 64 of 77 Bird.: -- at the east end of that and probably at the west end, too? McKeegan: At the west -- at the west end we are going to enclose that off completely. there was some concerned at the Public Hearing about -- about -- well, it's -- on the west end you're five feet off the property line., looking at -- Bird: I got some real safety concerns on that, going out there between -- McKeegan: Well, it will -- the gate will have a detach unit on it, it will be operable from the inside. Bird: How much lighting are you going to have there? McKeegan: It's all lit up right now. We have -- we -- at one time when we designed the .building, the building was designed so that the back part of this building could actually be a separate tenant, so we provided more than enough lighting back there to keep it from being a tunnel or a cave. Plus the other previous tenants had -- had to have access also. Bird.: And the one restroom has got a door that goes out to the west? McKeegan: No. That's in the -- that's a secondary exist for the office area. And that will be only accessed by -- by the -- Bird: You mean that isn't one restroom there, that's two restrooms? That's a mens and a women in that one location? McKeegan: There is, actually, about -- there is actually one, two, three, four, five, six, seven -- fourteen toilets and urinals in there. Bird: Yeah. But one's women and one men; right? McKeegan: Yes. Bird: Okay. McKeegan: And we -- before -- when we first put this together, we checked with the fire marshal and the building department to make sure that -- because it was -- quite frankly, it was an area that I had never been in either and the area between the buildings is adequate. We have adequate separation. Our exit widths are -- are satisfactory and it would be just like a -- just like a door with the panic on it in a shopping center. It's not really any different than the -- than the front. The buildings are fully fire sprinkler. De Weerd: But who monitors -- I mean it's not like someone monitors a bathroom, but when it's in a different building and you don't have doors -- you have doors to the stalls, but who's to say that someone is just not going to walk around the corner. That's weird. Meridian City Council February 26, 2008 Page 65 of 77 Bird: Show me the route in there. McKeegan: Okay. If you're a customer, you come here, there is a checkpoint where they check ID and., then, you're free to go into the facility. If you need to use the restroom, you come through this door, you go through this door and, then, you go into either the men's or the women's facility. And these are not -- and these are not -- these are not -- we don't want to have enclosed restrooms in this type of facility. The building code and the Americans With Disability Act allows for remote restrooms. A good analogy of this would be like a mall. The mall does not -- not every business in the mall has a restroom. You have public restrooms. The only -- this is very similar to that. We have -- we have the restrooms in a -- in a separate building. About this location right here is going to be a fence with a door and if you were in this area and something happens or if you want to -- if you want to leave, you walk up to that door, you will push on a paddle and it's just like the back door in a retail store, an alarm will sound, so they will know this door is opening. One of the people will go there and determine what the problem is. If it's fire, in 15 seconds the door opens and you're -- and you come down this -- down this corridor and you're in the public right of way. De Weerd: Okay. But what kind of monitoring -- I mean -- I don't want monitoring in the bathrooms, but say I'm the only woman in there and some drunk guy walks into the women's room and you scream, you're in a different building than anyone else is, what happens? McKeegan: I -- I don't know. What happens if you're the only woman at the mall and you go down that long corridor -- I'm thinking of Boise Town Square -- De Weerd: I'm not -- I don't have any responsibility for Boise Town Square. McKeegan: Right. De Weerd:: I do for Meridian, Idaho. So, I'm just asking a scenario question that I think is an issue, because there is no one over there -- if there is only two people over there., something happens, who is going to do something? McKeegan: I think Mr. Kelly can address that. De Weerd: Okay. I will wait until he's up here and ask him. McKeegan: Because that's what -- and he looks like he's chomping at the bit to -- being the cowboy he is, to discuss how his operation is going to work and how security is going to work. De Weerd.: Okay. Meridian City Council February 26, 2008 Page 66 of 77 McKeegan: So, if there is -- if I would like -- if there is any other questions, I'd like -- I'd answer them, if not I'd like to let him -- Zaremba: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Zaremba. Zaremba: I do. On the subject of parking, seating and the landscape that would be currently are parking spaces? the 69 spaces you said that your outdoor required because of the outdoor seating, McKeegan: Right. Currently this -- the whole front of the building here has parking. Mr. Kelly wanted us to allow for some outdoor seating in this area, which means that -- and currently this is landscaped right here. The City of Meridian has an ordinance that any landscape -- any parking area has to have landscaping at either end. We did not show additional landscaping at this area to take care of this parking right here. Zaremba: Would that seating area take some of the 69 spaces or does the 69 not count that area? McKeegan: The 69 does not count that. Those weren't in the -- were not included in that. Zaremba: Okay. So, at the moment, if you don't do the outdoor seating, there is actually more than 69 spaces? McKeegan: We are gaining three spaces back, I believe. Zaremba: Okay. McKeegan: I believe that's about 21 feet. Zaremba: Then, you mentioned Lanark Street, which, as Director Canning pointed out, does not have sidewalk or curb and gutter and all that sort of stuff. Do you know if it has lighting? McKeegan: Have I driven down there at night? I know we have lighting at our parking lot at the entrance. I believe the -- I believe the other businesses that have parking in front of their buildings do have lighting, but Ican't -- Zaremba: But it's not street lighting, that's parking lot lighting. McKeegan: I can't answer that question, if it is or not. I have only been down there once at night to -- Zaremba: Okay. All right. Thank you. Meridian city Council February 26, 2008 Page 67 of 77 De Weerd: Well, I guess just to -- to kind of take off where he left behind is if you don't have an improved street, so you don't have sidewalks, how -- I guess the intention would be that the patrons would walk down the middle of the road to get to the saloon or the facility? McKeegan: If there was overflow parking on the street. De Weerd: And you're not sure if there is lighting. McKeegan: I'm not sure. No, I'm -- I haven't been out there -- I have only been out there once at night and I -- I can't remember. I can't answer the question. De Weerd: Okay. Can you tell me if Lanark -- I anticipate I already know the answer to this, but is there a signalization intended on Lanark? McKeegan: At this point in time there is no signalization and ITD has not indicated to us that they intend on doing that. De Weerd: Okay. And I don't know if this is going to be for you or Mr. Kelly, but you have a saloon here and it's -- it's what you're saying more entertainment than drinking, but the speed there is 50 miles an hour. You're at the bottom of an incline, why -- where are the safety precautions you're putting in place by allowing that kind of intense traffic onto a high speed road? What are the precautions you're putting in there, if that's not going to be a lit intersection? McKeegan: We have three -- three lights on our -- on our property and I don't know if they -- I know they aren't supposed to go onto the street, but Idon't -- De Weerd: Okay. I mean a signal light. How about a signal light? McKeegan: A signal light.. Well, it's -- it's -- the street is -- the street is -- coming down Franklin Road there is the light there and I don't know if everybody can hit -- can hit 50 miles an hour in -- in the, you know, 300, 600 feet of coming down the hill. Coming from the other way -- I don't know the answer to the question. I -- ACHD has reviewed it and they have determined that a signal is not required there. They haven't asked for one. They didn't ask for one in their -- in their report on it, but Iknow I -- I used to attend a karate studio there in the evening at this -- and my class started at 6:30 and I was there until 9:00 o'clock and I never felt that I had a problem getting in or out of the facility at those hours, because Ithink -- I don't know what the traffic count at 10:00 o'clock or 11:00 o'clock or 2:00 o'clock is at -- on -- on the roadway. De Weerd: Bvt you hadn't been drinking. McKeegan: That's correct. Meridian City Council February 26, 2008 Page 68 of 77 De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. McKeegan: You know -- and, again, maybe Mr. Kelly can address how he's going to monitor that. De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions? Bird.: I have none. Rountree: None. De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Zaremba: You asked them. De Weerd: Mr. Kelly. Kelly: Madam Mayor, Council Members, Kevin Kelly, 580 West Meridian Road, Kuna. De Weerd: Thank you. Kelly: Don't know where to start. I guess we will start with the parking issue. The 69 parking spots -- you try to compare us with Rudy's, which isn't quite fair. Rudy's has three or four businesses in that same complex that are open as long as Rudy's is, so they are competing for the same parking spaces. In our building where we would be, we would get all 69 spaces. The other business closes at 5:00 o'clock. They are not -- they are not open later than that. As far as the street parking goes, there are sidewalks down the street of Lanark, not directly out the turn, but a couple hundred feet down and., then, there is sidewalks on both sides of the road.. I assume we are afforded the same parking rights as the businesses that are already there that park there all day long, as Mrs. Canning mentioned. It is an industrial street, but if you go down there during the day those businesses park their vehicles out on the street during the day. They got trucks and cars and everything else there. So, I assume we would be afforded the same rights at nighttime. The parking lot is lit up quite well. There is -- real well, actually. And going out into the Eagle Road -- granted, some of these people will be drinking, there is no doubt about that, but it's not any different than right across the road from R.C. Willey, who their customers come out at nighttime the same spot, and the same 50 mile an hour road. So, I don't know if that would be different, other than the fact that they will be dancing here and probably will have a couple beers or something. But to get back to the setup there, the bathrooms we are talking about, it's going to be closed on both ends -- and don't know how to operate this thing. Or if it operates. That will beaten foot wall on that end., so no one will go that way. There will be another wall here, as you mentioned earlier, with a gate. We are going to have a security camera on the wall here to monitor that and it's hooked up to our point of sale system, so they can monitor it all the time. As well as this is a smoking area. That's we decided to have our bathroom on this side, because we didn't want smoking inside. We had a courtyard outside, so we made it this Meridian City Council February 26, 2008 Page 69 of 77 way so that they can come out and smoke here and the bathrooms are across the way. This also is an office. We have -- since this is a doorway to the bathrooms and the smoking area, we are going to have a security guy stand here at this -- this door, as well as the other doors. But as you mentioned, if someone would scream or there is an occurrence over there, we would have on our point of sale system on our camera, as well as our security guy here. And., then, anybody that would be in this area smoking, which seems like lots of people smoke now, would likely have several people out there was well. This isn't going to happen, so we would have those spaces available. We just -- this isn't really the thought we had in mind anyhow. We thought we had a ten foot walkway there and we thought we could put a couple of tables out on the walkway and still give ourselves the four foot walkway required out front. The whole point of this is -- is not a drinking establishment, although we fall under that category, just like a restaurant down the street that has a bar also and you sit and watch TV, watch ball games. This primarily is -- our vision was -- is that people would make a night of it. They'd go downtown to the restaurants right down the street to the fine restaurants they have and., then, after having dinner they come down and dance here. We have live music one night a week and, then, sound system music the rest of the time. So, we are just trying to add entertainment to Meridian. We are not looking at it as a -- it's going to be an upscale entertainment facility, it's not a bar like you might think where you see people go in and just slump over the bar in a dark cave and so they think. This is more of an entertainment added value to Meridian and we are trying to keep upscale. That's our -- I know the bar thing gets into a lot of connotation. We are trying to stay away from that and try to value the entertainment part of it, so -- I'll take any questions if you have any. De Weerd: Council, any questions? Zaremba: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba. Zaremba: Will there be food served? Kelly: We didn't want to serve -- we are going to have snacks, like peanuts and pretzels, things like that, but we didn't want to compete with the fine restaurants right a quarter mile down the road. We hope that their customers would have dinner and, then, come down and dance with us. So, we didn't -- we didn't see that there was any need to compete with the kitchen facilities and the -- they have a dozen or more real good restaurants within a quarter of a mile of the -- of this place. So, we didn't see any need to compete with that and hoped it would intertwine with the same thing, same customers. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd.: Mr. Bird. Meridian City Council February 26, 2008 Page 70 of 77 Bird: Are you going to have a cover charge if you -- at the door if you're going to be upscaled and -- Kelly: We are going to have a cover charge at the door only on the nights that we have a live band., which would be -- Bird: Oh, I thought you was going to have a live band every night. Kelly: No. No. One night a week. Most likely a Saturday night. And, then, the rest of the time they can come in and dance and -- we have -- actually, we have three events. This right here is a quick draw -- laser type quick draw pistols. You compete against one another for time. This right here is actually a calf roping machine. It's a -- you sit on a fiberglass horse and a calf comes out from under it and they can rope it. And this is just a mechanical -- just a mechanical bull that you see -- I think there is one other place in Boise that actually has one. And this would be our dance floor, which is about a 1,200 square foot dance floor. That's our primary entertainment is what we are trying to base it on. Bird.: That's a pretty good size dance floor. Kelly: I hope we can fill it with dancers. Bird: Most people don't make money on a dance floor. Kelly: No. It's the entertainment. De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions, Council? Thank you. You have the last word. It is a Public Hearing. There might be someone else who would like to provide testimony. This would be the time to do it. Anyone? Van Auker: That's a long wait. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Ron Van Auker, 3084 East Lanark Street, just across from the proposed entertainment establishment. Not going to beat it to death. We all know -- in my opinion, parking -- in our opinion, parking is a serious issue. That was the bulk of our letter that we have sent out to the other tenants on the street, as well as the Council and the planning department. With the capacity of 243 people, it seems ridiculous that 69 spaces would be adequate parking. I know there is on-street parking, but on a street with no sidewalks and no way to get the people from the end of the street to the bar, it just poses kind of a safety issue. We all know about Rudy's bar and grill. We actually own the property -- the 40 acres to the east of that bar and had to spend 15,000 dollars to put a chain link fence up from Overland Road to the freeway, because the trucks were loading the restaurant from the rear and we are trying to keep a -- a tax status of agriculture on that property, because we all know the tax guy likes to hit us up whenever he can, so -- but if you do choose to approve this project, we'd like to see as a condition of the approval that the operating hours are strictly enforced from 5:00 to 2:00 a.m. and in order that the parking issue does not conflict with the other industrial uses in the subdivision. So, with that -- Meridian City Council February 26, 2008 Page 71 of 77 oh, the other one issue -- well, no, I won't say that. That's another parking thing and we have talked about parking enough., so -- if anybody has any questions I would be happy to answer them. De Weerd: So, Ron, you mentioned there are not sidewalks along that road? Van Auker: From Eagle Road to just beyond YMC there is no -- there is no sidewalks. And I guess it's Olson -- Olson Road that heads up towards Franklin, that's the point where the sidewalks start. We installed those. De Weerd: So, you have sidewalks that begin after -- Bird.: After YMC. Van Auker: Right. Where Marv's Insulation -- there is a building right here that we built for Marv's. There is sidewalk from that point on all the way down to the cul-de-sac. De Weerd: Okay. But closer to Eagle Road there it's unimproved. Van Auker: Correct. De Weerd: Is there street lighting in that area where there is no sidewalks? Van Auker: No. Along this side of the street there is not -- I couldn't tell you a hundred percent sure if there is on this side, but I don't think there is. Bird: YMC's got some of their lot in there. Van Auker: Yeah. We -- our building sits right here. We have wall packs all the way around the building, just to -- for security. But that lights to the parking lot to about right there, so -- De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions? Bird': I have none. De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Any other public testimony? Okay. You can wrap up with your remarks. McKeegan: Mr. Sigmont pointed out to me an answer to the question about the turning. If you look on the -- on the second page of this document, this is the -- again, the long range plan for this intersection. If you look out in Eagle Road you will see that there are the red lines. Those are going to be in the future. Those are going to be raised medians. So, what you can see is, basically, from our property it will be right --aright turn out only and from the R.C. Willey property it's going to be a right turn out only. And If you're coming into our property, as people coming down will be accelerating, they will turn into Meridian City Council February 26, 2008 Page 72 of 77 a protected entry and, then, come in. So -- and I -- I cannot tell you that there is a deceleration lane going up the road or an acceleration lane going up the road or -- because this thing is in such a hard scale, but it appears to me like there may be an acceleration lane when you turn out to allow you to accelerate up the -- up the road on that. So, it looks to me like they are not planning on signalizing this intersection, but they are going to severely limit the left turning movements, because of the problems. And I -- and it appears if you look at the rest of the document they are going to be going that on down Eagle Road as they head north towards Fairview. So, I just wanted to offer that -- that clarification. Getting back to the parking and the numbers, at 70 spaces, if you have three people per car, that gets us up to 210 people. If you have four people per car that gets us up to 280 people. So, granted, not every -- not every car is going to have four people in it, but, again, the way that Mr. Kelly's configured this as an entertainment, he's not anticipating that every car is going to have one person in it, either. So, I think that -- I think it's going to be adequate. The philosophy behind -- at least I have been told the philosophy behind Meridian's parking ordinance was not to make it so -- so menu driven or numbers driven, that it -- that it placed a burden on the business, that it was up to the business to have agood -- a good business plan and a good understanding of what they felt was going to be adequate and., then, to let them, you know, live with that or work. But I -- my -- you know, we think the 69 spaces are going to be adequate for the anticipated use. With that I'll stop and take any questions. Bird.: Madam Mayor. De Weerd': Thank you. Mr. Bird.. Bird: Patrick, what -- did you say there is a furniture store and what else in the rest of the building? McKeegan: There is a company that sells blinds for your windows. Bird: A bind company. Yeah. McKeegan: Shutters. Bird: And they both close at 5:00 o'clock? McKeegan; I believe the blind guy closes at 5:00. I think the furniture store -- what's the new hours of the -- Bird.: Is it a manufacture or retail? McKeegan: Retail. Bird.: And you can't -- and they are going to close at 5;00 o'clock? They would be the first -- , Meridian City Council February 26, 2008 Page 73 of 77 McKeegan: Before they were closing around 7:00, just because they -- when Everton was in there they would -- they were closing at round 7:00 or 8:00 o'clock, because they just didn't have any -- any customers. Again, when I -- when I went there -- I went there for karate for a year and we would come out at -- you know, I would get there at 6:30 and there would be -- and that side of the parking lot there would be like three cars and I'm pretty sure all of them belong to the guys that were working there. When I came out the parking lot was deserted., except for those of us that were coming out of the studio. And Iknow -- Bird: My biggest concern., not only is safety along -- parking along Lanark because of no lighting and stuff, but also the trash that's going to be out there every morning for the people to clean up and stuff like that. You know, a guy parking there from 7:00 to 4:00 at work at YMC or Van Aukers or someplace is a lot different than some guy that sits in a bar for four or five hours and, then, hauls out and, you know, usually can carry a bottle out with him or something. I mean., you know, I have some real concern over that, the problems it's going to raise there. Even with the explanation of that bathroom, Istill -- don't -- I wouldn't want to write the insurance, let's put it that way. De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions from Council? Rountree: I have none. De Weerd.: No? Thank you. McKeegan: Okay. Thank you. be Weerd: Okay. Council, the applicant has had his concluding remarks. There is no further public testimony. Any additional staff comments? Canning: No, ma'am. De Weerd: Does police or fire have any comment on this? Bird: I want police to comment. Stowe: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, obviously, with any drinking establishment it's going to increase calls for service. However, with that said we are not categorically against drinking establishments. Idon't know if it's been addressed in staff comments, there were some areas of concern I had just looking at the layout of the establishment as far as natural surveillance goes and where a patrol car driving by would be able to look down into certain areas to be able to see if people were actually in a safe position. It looked like there was a lot of closed off areas to me that we would not be able to actually have visual surveillance of it and that concerns me. The location itself, there are some concerns with the people after drinking going out onto Eagle Road.. However, overall, this is a much better location than. say near a residential area, because of the industrial location where there are no other businesses or residences Meridian City Council February 26, 2008 Page 74 of 77 that would maybe complain of noise or other disturbances in the area. So, with that would answer any questions, but that's just my concerns looking at it from just this one evening. De Weerd: Thank you, Lieutenant. Any further questions? Council, if there is no further information needed, I would entertain a motion to close. Bird.: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: I move we close the Public Hearing on RZ 07-019 and CUP 07-019. Zaremba: Second. De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion to close Items 18 and 19. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries. MOTION CARRIES: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT. De Weerd.: Any discussion? If not, do I have a motion? Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, before you make a motion, I did want to point out it's been awhile since the introductory testimony from the applicant, but you do have two very different applications before you. One is the rezone and the question of the appropriateness of the rezone and the other is the conditional use, which would be allowed by the rezone. De Weerd: Thank you. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird..: Yeah. The rezone -- you have to pass it to make the CUP applicable. Madam Mayor, I'll try a deal. I move that we approve RZ 07-019, rezone of .602 acres from I-L to C-G for Rockin KB Saloon. De Weerd.: I have a motion to approve Item 18. Do I have a second? Rountree: Madam Mayor, I'll second for discussion purposes. De Weerd: Okay. So, discussion. Rountree: It's amazing what you learn sitting up here. We have heard tonight that the Rockin KB Saloon and entertainment results in people, essentially, car pooling. I don't Meridian City Council February 26, 2008 Page 75 of 77 see that. It doesn't happen anyplace else. We also learn that it's a saloon and there will be dancing and you might go in there and probably have a couple beers. I get real concerned when I hear those kinds of comments from applicants, because I don't think that's really the case. But none of those are issues with me. The issue with me -- and I have been consistent, is that industrial zoning in this city is being chiseled away bit by bit, day by day, and at some point in time when we need industrial zoning, we are not going to have it. I'm not in favor of this rezone. And I'm not against the Rockin KB Saloon, but I would hope that it would be portrayed in the light in which it's being marketed at some point in time in the future. So, my vote on the motion would be no for the rezone. De Weerd: Okay. Any further discussion? Zaremba: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba. Zaremba: I can see that there could be -- that this particular venue could find a place in Meridian where it would add another thing for people to do. I'm very uncomfortable with this location for it. And along with Councilman Rountree, I also feel that the current zoning of this area as industrial is appropriate. Those are the uses that should be here. That doesn't mean I wouldn't be happy to approve such a use in a different location, but feel this is -- speaking to the CUP as well., I don't feel this is the correct location for this and I, too, would not be in favor of the rezone. Bird.: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Any discussion? Mr. Bird. Bird: I, too, don't like -- and I know we need as much industrial zone as we do, but we seem -- we don't seem to think twice about taking 20 or 30 or 40 acres in out of industrial and putting it in as high density residential. So, I didn't think .602 of an acre would really take a lot of industrial out of that. I don't see a big building being built on that, but I -- I hate to tell anybody about their business, but Idon't -- I don't think -- to be truthful with you, I don't know whether -- the location don't bother me as much as the layout. I hate restrooms being away from the main building. I don't care how many security cameras you have out there or how many things doing and -- I don't know. It just don't feel right to me. Anyway, call for the question. De Weerd: Okay. Madam Clerk, will you, please, call roll on this motion. And the motion is to approve Item 18. Roll-Call: Bird, nay; Rountree, nay; Zaremba, nay; Borton, absent. MOTION FAILED: THREE NAYS. ONE ABSENT. Meridian City Council February 26, 2008 Page 76 of 77 De Weerd: Okay. Item 19 -- Rountree: We still haven't done anything with 18. De Weerd: Oh, that's right. Rountree: We haven't approved., but we haven't denied it. Madam Mayor? De Weerd:: Yes, Mr. Rountree. Rountree.: I move that we deny the request for rezone in Item 18. Bird: Second. De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to deny the request on Item 48. If there is no discussion, Madam Clerk, will you, please, call roll. Roll-Call: Bird., yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, absent. De Weerd: All ayes. MOTION CARRfES: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT. De Weerd: The CUP would still need to be voted on, even though it's not allowed in the current zoning; correct? Nary: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes. Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the findings we would process for the CUP, based on your motion on the prior application, would be that it's not in the appropriate zone. It's not zoned for that use. But we would need to make a motion to move to deny it. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Bird. Bird: I move we deny CUP 07-019. Rountree: Second. De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to deny Item 19. If there is no discussion, Madam Clerk, please, call roll. Meridian City Council February 26, 2008 Page 77 of 77 Roll-Call: Bird., yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, absent. MOTION CARRfES: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT. De Weerd.: Okay. Council, we are at the end of our agenda. I would entertain a motion to adjourn. Bird: Before you do, Madam Mayor, may I say something? De Weerd.: Yes. Bird: I want to compliment a gentleman back there that -- we got an article in the Statesman that is finally positive and it couldn't have -- it couldn't have been on a -- for a better person, Frank. De Weerd: Nice picture, too. Bird: And I'm very very proud of you and I'm very proud of Jennifer who wrote it. The stock -- my stock in the Statesman went up about a hundred percent when I read that this morning and I'm like Councilman Rountree, what a nice positive article and couldn't have happened to a better guy. Rountree: Congratulations. Move the adjourn. Bird: Second. De Weerd: All those in favor? MOTION CARRfED: ALL AYES. De Weerd: Thank you. MEETING ADJOURNED AT 10:57 P.M. (TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) / / MAYOR TAMMY De WEERD DATE APPROVED ATTEST: WILL BERG, C1TY CLERK