Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAbout2008 01-15 Joint MDCMeridian City Council Special Workshop Meeting January 15, 2008 A meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:00 p.m., Tuesday, January 15, 2008, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd. Members Present: Tammy de Weerd, David Zaremba, Keith Bird., Charlie Rountree, and Joe Borton. Others Present: Ted Baird, Will Berg, Anna Canning, Len Grady, Jeff Lavey, Steve Siddoway, Elroy Huff, Stacy Kilchenmann, Pete Friedman and Dean Willis. MDC Board Members Present: Craig Slocum, Scott Turlington, Kirk Morris, Clarence Jones, Ryan Armbruster, and Shaun Wardle. Item 1: Roll-call Attendance: Roll call. X David Zaremba X Joe Borton X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird . X Mayor Tammy de Weerd De Weerd: I'll go ahead and call this meeting to order. We will start with roll call attendance. Item 2: Adoption of the Agenda: De Weerd: Thank you. Our first -- Item 1 is adoption of the agenda. Borton: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Borton. Borton: I move we adopt the agenda as published. Bird: Second.. De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda as presented.. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries: MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 3: COMMUNITY ITEMS /PRESENTATIONS: Meridian City County / MDC Woricsfiop January 15, 2008 Page 2 of 30 (a) Update on New City Hall Building Construction -Petra Inc. Gene Bennett, Jon Anderson & Adam Johnson -Progress Update. De Weerd: Item 3. We do have an outline and we will start with an update on the City Hall project building. We had our talking event today. Shaun, you were there; correct? No? Wardle: I was inside the -- De Weerd; You were in the building. Wardle: I was in the vicinity. De Weerd: It was very nice and I would certainly like to thank Will and Shelly, my office staff, for putting that all together. So, Gene, I'll turn this over to you. Bennett: Thank you. I have passed out our monthly report and I will briefly go through it. Joining me today is Jon Anderson, superintendent, and I will have Jon go through the schedule. And, then, in addition, if you have any questions, Adam Johnson is here as well. I will briefly take you through the book and., then, I'll let Jon expand on the schedule itself. As far as the schedule is concerned, the project is on schedule on the south half of the building. We are a little bit behind on the north half, since we have gone through some pretty bad weather here in the last three weeks. The south half of the building is in the dry. For those that have walked through the building you see the -- the rough-ins going in. The north half of the building is partially enclosed and partially roughed in. Section three deals with Leeds. Right now we are targeted for 34 points of a range of 33 to 38 for silver. So, that's still the goal for the building is a Leeds accredited silver building. There is a meeting coming up next week to review those in detail, again, with the mechanical-electrical engineers and the architect. On the financial side of the project, currently the plaza has been partially redesigned. That bid package will go out here at the end of January, will bid in February. That package is targeted at 1.7 to 2.2 million dollars, bringing your total building budget to 19.9 to 20.4 million dollars. Currently the project is 46 percent build to date. ASIs, there are, actually, a total of 60 in place at this point. The total of those 60 ASIs have resulted in a 27 day schedule requested additional time and we are reviewing that. We have not approved it at this point. RFIs, 74 to date, who are active. Submittals on your materials, 167 to date, 14 are yet to be approved, the other 153 are approved. To go through the schedule in a little bit of detail, I'll let Jon take it from there. The schedule is tab number two in your booklet. The first sheet is the detailed mechanical-electrical sheet. Your overall schedule is on the second page. And, Jon, I'll let you take it from there. Meridian City County / MDC Workshop January 15, 2008 Page 3 of 30 Anderson: The first sheet, which is the schedule with the trades, to date, as we drop down, the first floor rough in is complete and we have drops with our weather. We have enclosed the south half of the building. We are moving item 36, which will reflect on the next schedule for next month. The second floor rough in is going in and it's almost complete. Third floor rough in, item 38, will actually move in third place as we go through this flooring activity and that is the actual putting the floor down, the computer floor. So, we are actually moving the north half of the building behind the south half of the building, because we have control at this point in time in the south half with our weather. So, enclose the north half and get our roof on, the steel buttoned up, so we can install the rest of the roof. The north half of the building will lag a couple weeks behind this schedule. It's been kind of hard to follow, but when we get through the flooring activity, which is the middle to the end of February, on the second sheet, which is how it ties together -- on the next sheet back, which is our .master schedule, the CPM schedule, when you go down to the access flooring, which is item number 29 on the second sheet, that access flooring we anticipate wrapping up by the end of February on the north half of the building. The next item down, partition walls, is actually being pulled ahead, partition walls on the first floor, south half of the building, will start next week. We will follow into third floor, so on and so forth. So, where we do have control we are dragging those activities ahead to maintain the schedule with anticipation of finishing as early as we possibly can, Mayor. Critical path on the main facility at this point, again, it's getting the floor down, getting the partition walls framed, which is the bulk of the walls inside the building. Walls roughed in, drywall, and, then, finishing up the drywall activities about the middle of May. The paint following that. The mill work and so on and so forth. So, we are still in a little bit limbo, but I'm still pushing as hard as I can here to obtain this access flooring and finishing up at the end of February, which allows us the ability to take off the petition walls. So, what I'm saying, the access floor fiinishing, that will be third floor north section. So, as we build the south end, the first floor, second floor, third floor, we will have to drop back and, then, completing the first floor north, second floor north, and third floor north as it was originally scheduled.. So, I have had to move things around based what we actually have control of the weather and the building. Other activities on site, our utilities are all to the building. We have water, power, gas. The phone is a matter a couple conduits getting to the building. Our main switch gear is inside and we are in the process of piping it. So, we should have permanent power within the next six to eight weeks when we will actually have permanent power. From there the brick itself has started on the south elevation. By the end of next week it should be topped out on the south half of the building and they are starting set that there on that north elevation. So, once the brick goes up on the top and the north, we can connect the two together in the center, because the south and north portions are brick and the center section is mainly your stone, Meridian City County /MDC workshop January 15, 2008 Page 4 of 30 with your accent on brick. So, we are, actually, moving that around. So, anyway, again, schedule-wise, the access flooring is driving where we are at and petition walls are moving ahead., wall rough-ins are moving ahead, with anticipated date of, again, the end of February for access flooring to wrap up, so -- the plaza will bid.. As soon as the plaza comes back we will start the plaza activity the first of March, the middle of March, and the masons should be out of the way so we can start the whole plaza activity, so we do have an entrance into the building when it opens. That's where we are at. De Weerd: Council, any questions for either Gene or Jon? Any questions from our MDC Board? Jones: Looking great. De Weerd: I did ask Will to -- we do have a new elevation and the interior samples, if you would like to see that. They did change some of the front elevation to add the colored stripes, accents, whatever the terminology is. Banding. Rountree: The Mayor's stripes. De Weerd.: You have to tell everything, And.., then, this is the color pallet, the interior colors on the floors, the wall colors, bathrooms, wallpaper, et cetera. Jones: Very nice. De Weerd: Thank you. Slocum: Since we didn't have the luxury of the report, I'll ask the 64,000 dollar question. So, when are we intending occupancy? Bird.: October 1st -- August 1st we will start moving in. Right, Jon? Anderson: That is the target date. And we strive for that target date every day. Berg: We are not going to move in until it's ready to be moved into, but -- Anderson: At the very end of the project it's important to remember that we do have aflush-out period and that is built into the schedule as well. We are allowed to do some minor punch list activities and That will be when the punch list activities are wrapped up. But as far as after construction, we have to be complete and we turn on the air handlers and actually flush the building out. Once we flush for the volume of air that's required per square foot, at that point in Meridian City County / MDC Workshop January 15, 2008 Page 5 of 30 time -- and through the process we are changing the filters on the air handlers to insure the quality of the air for capturing the particulates. With the change of filters we have to flush the volume of air being flushed and we actually set up monitoring inside the building to check for BLTs and check for particulates and we check for different things in the air to insure the air quality. This is a major part of the Leed process. So, that aspect, which is at the very end of the job, will encroach into some of the activities as far as punch list, putting signs up, but all the mill work, all the facias, have to be intact before we start the flush. And that insures, again, the quality of the building. Bird: We have got the month of July set aside for that, don't we? Anderson: No comment. De Weerd.: See, it's not just the Mayor. Anderson: It will be a little warm in there. But we are taking every avenue we can and that's why I've had to, on the south, get back where we can have control, and once we have it enclosed, then, we can spread back out. All the trades that we have on site right now have more forces than they are willing to dedicate to them to it until we can get them back in on the site, so -- De Weerd: You know, certainly, the site has proved to be a challenge with the contamination that we have found and some other surprises as well. We had some issues with our still and now weather. But they have been making up time where they can and so I know they will make a good faith effort to meet Mr. Bird's and my time frame, but we will -- Bird.: They will meet it. De Weerd: We will be reasonable, too. Any questions? Berg: Madam Mayor, not to say we haven't thought about it, but we have talked about scheduling with Jon's expertise about what departments do we move in first in the building and how we want to arrange that move in, because we are not all going to move in at once, so we need to take care of the first floor, so things are contained and people coming in, they don't be wondering all over. So, we have talked about how seeing other ones, like at the courthouse and a few others, how we can maybe move in and structure that move in, so we are not walking over each other. We have kind of looked at that and so -- Bird: It will be nice. Meridian City County /MDC workshop January 15, 2008 Page 6 of 30 De Weerd: We also just saw a redesign of the plaza, our final redesign. One of the things that wasn't taken into consideration was the cross-access for Buich's piece and so we needed a drive aisle from the alley to Broadway, so -- but the plaza looks really nice and certainly none of the -- the intended goals with the water features, with the historic panels, and the amphitheater and those kind of things, have not been compromised at all. So, it's -- it's still going to be a huge asset in terms of giving a place for people to come and gather. Jones: Wonderful. De Weerd: We appreciate you being here to give this report. And that was a great tour. We got to tour the building. If you had braved the cold you could have, too. Bennett: Thank you. (b) Downtown Development -Shaun Wardle -Len Grady What's on Downtown Old Town District & Current Zoning Infrastructure Issues Next Steps De Weerd: Thanks Will. The next item is our discussion about downtown development. We will start with Mr. Wardle. Mr. Wardle. He's first up. Canning: Mr. Wardle had indicated that he wanted me to go first, so that he could fill in after me. De Weerd: Okay. Wardle: Before we do that, Madam Mayor, for those of you that may not know our two new board members, Kirk Morris, Scott Turlington, are our newest board members. Certainly you know Clarence and Craig, and I believe this is the first formal meeting that our former board member has been at, so he's received his certificate of appreciation and we'd like to thank him again. Sorry, Anna. Canning: I just want to give you -- we do have a couple of new members and I thought I'd give a brief history of the planning department crossing boundaries with MDC here about last five years. I promise it will be brief, so -- so, about -- sometime around the beginning of -- or the middle 2002 the city adopted a Comprehensive Plan that had an Old Town designation on it. And., then, in about the beginning of 2003 just before my tenure -- so, the dates really an issue, but Meridian City County /MDC Workshop January t5, 2008 Page 7 of 30 around the beginning of 2003 the planning department initiated a rezone of all the properties within the Old Town designation to zone them OT at that time. So, we have a Comprehensive Plan designation, as well as a zoning district with the name Old Town. That -- at that initial hearing, with all those owners, they were not encouraging of that rezone, because everything was a conditional use at that time in Old Town, pretty much any use you wanted to do. An ice cream store required conditional use approval, which at the time came out six months -- four to six months. So, the planning department pulled back on that. At this point the MDC was in its mere infancy at that point -- no pun. It was truly a baby. But, then, we worked on the zoning code for the Old Town district and there are a lot of principally permitted uses now. So, that means you can go into the planning department within a matter of -- of a week to two weeks you can get a building permit for -- you can get down to the building permit and accomplish that goal. So, we have one of the tools in place that we need to move forward with -- for Old Town zoning. So, there is a key component missing and that's design guidelines for all of the downtown. As you know, we did work on design guidelines, but right now they are for the historic core and that historic core is shown on the map before you and I will go into more detail on this map for a moment. But I wanted to talk about those design guidelines. So, we have them for that historic core, but we don't have them for the old areas of downtown. But we are working on them and we have our first steering committee meeting on the design guidelines this week -- tomorrow. I think it's tomorrow. Tomorrow. So, that's an exciting move forward on our part and we hope to have those completely done by the end of the year and we can move forward and decide what's appropriate -- if it's the appropriate time to rezone Old Town at that point, after talking with MDC and Council on this matter. So, we are moving very much closer to where we need to be with regard to all those tools in place. Okay. So, having said that, that's the very brief history of Old Town. What you have before you is a map that shows the Old Town Comp Plan designation boundaries or anything that's colored. So, if it's colored it's listed in the Old Town Comprehensive Plan map. And., then, you see there is a number of zoning categories that range from the Old Town zoning, which is the darker brown and the lighter historic core brown. And.., then, you have C-C, which is kind of a -- our mid level commercial district, is the pink one. The red is our. heaviest commercial district. The most -- allows the most intense use of the property. The purple is our limited office district, which is limited to offices. It's A little self-explanatory. and, then, we have an industrial district in gray. You have medium -- low, medium, and medium high residential. So, you have got all different -- three different residential categories within there as well. Each of those districts has a different maximum height limit and those are provided next to that zoning description. You will see the max height and, then, the number of stories that that generally accommodates. So, it's an estimate there. So, we have a variety of things going on there. One that -- of particular note is within that special Meridian City County /MDC Workshop January 15, 2008 Page 8 of 30 district, that downtown historic heart, the zoning code would allow five to six stories, but the design guidelines for that area talk about two to three. Because we knew that the Old Town zoning district would eventually accommodate more than just that historic height -- or historic heart. So, we have a higher height limit. I think there may be a difference in vision between the City Council and the MDC with regard to particularly that block between Main and Meridian and limiting that to three story. And, then, the only other two things that I wanted to go over tonight were to remind you of our in lieu fee arrangement that we have and I think will work really well,. Shaun and I came up with a good solution to that that works efficiently and is easy for folks to understand. And., then, we are also working together on the 3rd Street extension to punch through, the location to make it work. And with that I can answer questions or maybe you want to wait until Shaun fills in all my blanks and, then, you can ask questions. De Weerd: Any questions at this point? Shaun. Wardle: Thanks, Anna. Anna pointed out some challenges that we can talk about in just a minute, but one of the things that I wanted to let the Council know, the Meridian Development Corporation is engaged in a 3-D modeling venture and we kick that off tomorrow morning at 11:00 o'clock with our consultant Visual Genesis. What we will be doing is modeling the urban renewal area in a 3-D fashion, base mapping the ground, so that we can -- we can map up what we think and what we feel downtown will become and one of the things that Anna and I have talked about is the ability for her new staff member that will be doing all of the design guidelines -- is that correct, Anna? To have the ability to take some ideas and paste -- essentially, paste them on buildings to see how they mesh with each other. So, we see that going further, in addition to some of the other things that we have. We are also working on, as Anna mentioned, the 3rd Street corridor. What we are looking for is, really, an alignment from Franklin to Fairview and our continuing down that path with our consultant. The other item of interest is our favorite transportation improvement, the split corridor. Phase one we are working diligently with the planning department and the parks department on our landscaping of the phase one portion of that. In addition to that, tomorrow at 1:00 o'clock ACHD has the phase two kick-off meeting. So, that brings us kind of up to speed on where we are at in terms of partnership with the city. One of the issues that has come up within discussions of the City Council and the urban renewal agency is in our renewal plan we have a number of initiatives to -- that we focus on. One of the major initiatives is infrastructure and so from an infrastructure standpoint, I'm going to talk briefly and., then, I'm going to turn it over to Len, who is going to talk about Public Works sewer and water. To let the Council know, as I expressed at their last meeting, the urban renewal agency's focus has been on property acquisition, particularly when it comes to parking. And so given the limited funds that we have from the Meridian City County /MDC Workshop January 15, 2008 Page 9 of 30 increment, we have not only used those funds, but gone into -- into debt to secure additional properties, and so at this current time the renewal agency's plan has been to find and to facilitate parking as its number one priority. And that leaves us, in terms of funding, a little short on some of the projects that we were thinking about in terms of Public Works. But Len actually has some better news for us. So, Len, if you want to just -- I'll turn it over to you and you can talk about that and, then, we can come back and take any questions that you may have for me. Okay? De Weerd: Council and MDC Board, before we turn this over to Len, we, as our senior management team, saw maybe a possible collision starting to happen in terms of what infrastructure is available here downtown and how are we going to pay for whatever improvements we are going to be needing and we wanted to make sure we had a good consensus that what the city understood is actually the vision that MDC has and that would help us determine a base line for what the service needs are.. We did have a discussion last month with City Council members to -- to take a look at some of the questions that were raised by our senior management team and each of the areas, anywhere from fire, building, infrastructure, design, to really get a good base -- Canning: Alleys. De Weerd: And alleys. I was getting to alleys. That's the funnest. So, I guess some of the clarity we were looking for before we came and had this discussion with the MDC Board., is do we want alleys or not. What we did walk away from is if someone wants to eliminate the alleys, then, they can divert the line -- the sewer line to service that. Because right now our service lines for sewer and water run down the alleyways and that's something that the direction has been if that is the preferred option, that would be put upon the development to take care of and that was a key determination for us in figuring some of this stuff out. So, just kind of with that base line, each of our senior management team is here to respond to any questions you have and that will happen under the issue section. But I did want to let you know that we wanted to make sure that we had all the questions up front, so as we proceed in partnership in your redevelopment efforts, we have clear communication lines, we know the obstacles along the way, so those can be communicated to any potential investors. So, all of this is known up front. Len. Grady: With that Council asked me to look at a couple of scenarios at our last meeting to determine, you know, if we have to go in and do some reclaiming of some of the sewer pipes and upgrade them, what's it going to cost. So, I set out to do that. However, at the same time we were also in the process of updating our sewer model. We have a fairly sophisticated global sewer model, but, Meridian City County / MDC Workshop January 15, 2008 Page 10 of 30 unfortunately, downtown it sort of lacks some of the detail. So, we went out and hired civil surveyors to survey in those manholes and shore up that -- that sewer model and, basically, the results were very encouraging. Where we thought we might have significant problems downtown, we actually have a fair amount of capacity, so it's really good news. I won't bore you with the details, I know you're all really excited about sewer, but figure one is really sort of the tell tail of where we are at with that. On each of -- each of those areas -- unfortunately, the shading between area two and three is a little close there. But we have a fair amount of hook-ups downtown with the existing sewer -- sewer lines in there. We have done some upgrading recently. That's the good news. The bad news is downstream of downtown, in conjunction with all of the rest of what's going on in Meridian, we start getting a bottleneck downtown -- or, sorry, downstream of downtown. So, when you take a look at these numbers you may think, well, yeah, we can go and just add all of those connections. Unfortunately, that's not the case. If we stopped hook-ups right now, you could do this and we would have capacity, but as we have Pinebridge and others hook up, we begin -- and those start collecting into trunks downstream, we start having a sewer capacity problem. So, with our having focused downtown, we now realize that we need to start focusing our efforts downstream, so the next time we meet we will have better information there on what we really can allow downtown. But back to the original question Council asked me is, you know, should we be charging more downtown or less or what have you. Well., given we have probably plenty of capacity for at least quite some time, that question wasn't quite as important. But thought you might be interested in if we did decide to -- for example, spur growth downtown and reduce the hook-up cost say by 50 percent, the rest of the city would probably only have to increase their cost five percent to cover that. So, it's -- you know, because downtown is a fairly small area, although very dense, the rest of the city, it basically gets lost in the noise. So, those numbers are just -- just for your -- just to spark interest, I guess. And I'm not necessarily proposing or anything that we reduce hook-up fees downtown. So, with that are there any questions? De Weerd: Questions? Council, any questions? Bird.: I have none, Mayor. Rountree: I may have after I have had an opportunity read it, but I don't have any right now. De Weerd: Well, Ithink -- Slocum: Did -- having civil surveys and still do the work, they look at capacity, did they look at condition? Meridian City County / MDC Workshop January 1:5, 2008 Page 11 of 30 Grady: Yes. We have some condition problems, In fact, we are in the process of -- we are on a three year cycle to go and camera all the lines and, unfortunately, a lot of that downtown is either in progress of being cameraed or will be cameraed within the next, you know, couple of months. We believe we have some infiltration downtown and there may be an opportunity after we get that information to go in and fix that. Save treatment costs down the road, so -- Slocum: Thank you. De Weerd: Len, you might explain the next step. Grady: Well, we are going to -- we are going to continue to work on the model. We update the model yearly, like I said., more on a global basis. We are in that process now of updating that model and will get -- we will get much more detail downtown and all of the areas surrounding downtown and be able to give you better answers on how much we can and can't allow, without going in and doing major upgrades. De Weerd: But the next step as well is looking at the downstream and how we can divert some of these other regions to different lines. Grady: Yeah. De Weerd: Stacy, do you want to say anything about financial modeling or -- Kilchenmann: Well, I -- the city is currently -- basically spent our -- the fund that they built up through the period of growth in order finance the right of way and wastewater expansion, so we kind of at a -- at a zero point right now. So, that was one of our big concerns, I guess, and why we really needed to discuss this and figure out what we are going to do. And I listed some various ways that the city could generate money externally, not just through growth, which most of those are bonding, if the city does any kind of debt we need take on, we pretty much have to do through a public vote. So, we are looking at -- that's why we kind of said to have this discussion about the Greenfield thing and so forth and trying to narrow this down and get some numbers put to it, so we can discuss ways if we need to change our fees. You know, if we do take on debt, we would need to -- we have to show that we can recover that through our operating expenses and that takes quite a bit of planning. So, I think that's kind of a real immediate focus for us to try to put some hard numbers and do some planning. De Weerd: Okay. Meridian City County /MDC Workshop January 15, 2008 Page 12 of 30 Kilchenmann: And we will tender them to MDC staff, depending on how much money we have, but we are not -- De Weerd: There is no ask here. If you're wondering when the other shoe is dropped.. I know Ron isn't here. Jeff, did you have anything you wanted to bring up? Lavey: No. I think it's all been addressed. We just talked about -- you know our feeling about alleys and that's the only issue, so -- De Weerd: Sorry. I asked.. Slocum: Is it worth sharing with MDC? Lavey: We can share it. Slocum: I didn't mean to open a can of worms. Lavey: You know, it's one of those things that -- it's one of those things as far as -- there is an issue as far as you're running sewer lines into the alleyways or into the street and we always run them in the alleyways and part of what we do in planning and our recommendations is to design -- or at least offer opinions based upon crime prevention and alleys attract crime and so one of the biggest things that we can do to prevent crime is to eliminate alleys. Well, you have to balance that on a needs of is that -- is that practical and that's -- we just address that each and every time, so -- and., then, also not just crime, but as far as traffic flows and that sort of thing and do you have people trying to cut through the alleys, creating risk, or do you have those parked in the street and those are subjected to off loading. So, those are all questions you have to ask each and every time and just find where that balance is. So, I think that about a 30 second nutshell. De Weerd: Now, you see the debate that goes on at our meetings. Lavey: We compromise and -- Wardle: And if I can -- I guess maybe the -- our board of commissioners haven't heard the alley sort of discussion we've had. The real discussion came as I meet with the developers and they talk about consolidation of properties in the downtown core, one of the things that they strive to do is .maximize their site and because the sewer is currently in the alleys, they have been asking are there ways to remove the sewer so that we can maximize that site. Can alleys be vacated because they are not being utilized for their transportation purposes and so one of the things that Public Works said is I mean you can do anything, it just Meridian City County /MDC Workshop January 15, 2008 Page 13 of 30 costs money to move -- to move those sorts of things and so the planning perspective is there are purposes for alleys that give opportunities for -- I'll let Anna expand on that in terms of it gives an opportunity not only for transportation, but for interesting places and so that's kind of where this alley -- I won't call it a debate, but this alley issue came up between MDC and the city and all the other agencies. Lavey: Madam Mayor, I want to -- De Weerd: It probably is a debate. Lavey: If this is going to be on the record I shouldn't say this, but one of the things that we will -- we look at this way, though, is that you have an issue of having buildings to where there is only a small separation, instead of the alleys, say three feet or four feet or whatever. That's worse. And., then, when you actually have buildings that adjoin each other -- and I think the fire department is going to sit there and say that's even worse. And so we recognize the fact that the alleys give the fire separation. The alleys do give some sort of access to travel and it's not a confined space that creates an even greater danger without lights and issues and everything else. And so we state for the record what our feelings are on alleys, but we recognize that we found a balance that's probably slightly beneficial. Slocum: That's on the record. De Weerd: That is on the record. Lavey: We don't say that quite as much as -- we need certain people to -- right, Anna? De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba. Zaremba: I would only comment that to build City Hall we asked to vacate an alley and I can certainly see developers wanting to build across that space. Lavey: But we also moved the sewer. Bird: And we also moved the sewer. Berg: And utilities. Bird: And utilities and we paid for it. Meridian City County / MDC Workshop January 15, 2008 Page 14 of 30 De Weerd: Anything else regarding alleys? Craig, did you have something? Yes, David.. Zaremba: If we are sort of done with that subject, I have another infrastructure and finance comment to pass onto everybody. At a meeting of ACHD's Capital Investment Citizens Advisory Committee, which -- which I attend, the CICAC was apprised of the fact that the city of Boise at some point is going to go to the legislature and ask that all urban renewal districts in the state be exempted from impact fees for the purpose of providing an incentive to anybody that would develop there and., you know, to make in-fill and renewal projects easier, that's Boise take on it. ACHD has the opinion that that doesn't really have legs, that it's not going to go anywhere. I would lean towards ACHD's opinion, because it means that in an urban renewal district ACRD would have, essentially, no funding.. So, I just wanted to put that on everybody's radar, that that is a possible thing that the city of Boise may be proposing. I'm not in favor of it in person, but just wanted people to be thinking about it. De Weerd: And it does have major concerns as they face two portions of the downtown transportation plan is impact fee eligible. So, if you stopped paying impact fees downtown, that money has to come from somewhere, so -- Turlington: What is the ACHD's current impact fee for commercial per square foot? Zaremba: Based on square footage and it's different for retail and uses, it's very use based and very flexible. Turlington: The high end I have heard could be eight bucks. Is that right or -- Bird.: How much? Turlington: Eight. Is it that high? Slocum: Drive-thru, seems like 12,000 per thousand square foot. Zaremba: It is published and it could be gotten, but it's -- it's a very big chart. Wardle: David,, if I might ask just a question. One of the issues that dealt with just recently in one of our new businesses downtown is a reuse and a subsequent fee paid for that. Is that something the committee -- I can understand their -- their resistance to an outright impact fee being deleted for urban renewal areas, but have they looked at the reuse of -- of existing buildings? We had a situation on Idaho Street where an existing building was Meridian City County /MDC Workshop January Y5, 2008 Page Y5 of 30 adaptively reused.., kept in an historic nature, and upgraded, in our opinion, and fees were significant for that use. Has that been talked about, do you know? Zaremba: CICAC has not talked about -- whether ACRD staff has had discussions I don't know. But I'm -- I'm certain they would have discussions if it was brought up to them. Wardle: And one of the things that Anna and Ihave -- have worked together to -- to base our in lieu of fee is there really is an incentive to save the historic nature of buildings, to get credit for that square footage and don't, essentially, have to pay the in lieu of fee if they keep or reuse that space. So, we are doing some at the local level. There is -- Zaremba: I can see the sense to that. De Weerd: And that's different from, I think, the intent of this other one. This is scraping and constructing new. I guess one of the things that staff has also been tasked with is looking at those buildings that are trying to be restored and looking at our building codes to see how they will apply in Old Town and so trying to make it so it's not so cumbersome, seeing where there is flexibility in the code, in particular to remodeling, to make it reasonable and not so cost prohibitive. So, they are evaluating that as well. Steve. Siddoway: I think the issue for downtown development for the parks department is primarily the downtown streetscape. Right now the parks department is in charge of maintaining the existing tree wells and irrigation, cleaning up the banners that you see down there. And as the downtown redevelops -- and I know MDC has been working on new streetscape standards and that grows to the extent that downtown will be adding additional maintenance and more banners, adding flower pots, more hardscape, more irrigation, trees, pruning, things like that. So, I have had Elroy working on unit cost for those items and think what we are ready to do is pull together a meeting between the parks department and MDC representative, look at what the likely future cost of that maintenance are and, then., we need to figure out, you know, will the parks department continue to be responsible for maintenance of the new streetscape. Will MDC be putting funds towards the additional maintenance that's above and beyond what's out there today and we need to investigate some of those items and bring it to City Council. De Weerd: I guess, Steve, one of the things that MDC can't do is maintenance, so we are -- I guess -- Meridian City County / MDC Workshop January 15, 2008 Page 16 of 30 Siddoway: So, there will be additional maintenance and we need to figure out how that relationship looks like. De Weerd: What we will do is put the cost to it, so as the improvements are made, those considerations are certainly taken into account as to the impact on the city's general fund.. Just like the discussion with the Greenfield and how we can shift some of that to Greenfield for redevelopment in downtown, we are shifting resources from other areas and putting them downtown as things redevelop and it is a cost. So, we are pulling together that information, so -- as information for the board and that we can work in concert together to make sure that as you bring projects online., that is considered in our next year's budget on the maintenance side. I think Council did suggest at our discussion last month that the city would incur those costs in hopes that at some point maybe the business -- downtown business association, as they do in Boise, takes some of that cost on. It's just an FYI at this point, but we do want to have those discussions with you. Wardle: And any of our new board members who haven't met Steve Siddoway, the new parks director, Steve was formerly with the planning department and worked diligently on urban renewal from its inception. So, I actually learned a lot more from urban renewal -- about urban renewal from Steve than I do about parks and he's been a great resource for us. So, you have a soft spot in your heart for downtown; right? Siddoway: Areal soft spot for downtown and I couldn't be more happy that these types of discussions are ongoing and the downtown redevelopment is progressing. De Weerd: Okay. Len. Grady: Mayor, one of the things that I failed to talk about is water. I had my sewer hat on. We do have quite a bit of water available downtown. We have got good flow from multiple places. However, we do have areas with very small water lines, some, unfortunately, two inch, three inch, four inch water lines. So, you might ask, well, why don't we just go and up-size those. Well, if we up-size them to an eight inch and we put a super large building there that needs a lot of fire flow, we will have to rip it out and put in a ten or a 12 inch. The water is very easy to put in. It's fairly straight forward.. Not a lot of issues there, but -- and, like say, we do have agood -- good surrounding system that provides as much fire flows of what we need out there, it's just a question of up-grading those pipes once we are absolutely sure we know what's going downtown, so -- Meridian City County /MDC Workshop January 1'S, 2008 Page 17 of 30 De Weerd: Thank you, Len. Any further questions? Staff, have you been able to identify all your issues? Bird: Downtown issues. De Weerd: Boy, did I open a can of worms. Bird: Yeah. I was going to say -- De Weerd: As it relates to downtown. The key discussion points you wanted to have. Canning..: Well, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Members of the MDC Board, if there is a different division for the block between Main and Meridian Street, I guess we need to come forward with some idea on how to resolve that conflict and some direction from Council and MDC would be helpful on that. Boston: Madam Mayor? De Weerd.: Yes. Borton: To add onto that, I was just going to bring that up. We talked about that to give MDC an opportunity to share, you know, their vision on that issue and also I think the rail corridor was talked about as well and types of uses and building height issues and hear what MDC has comments, thoughts, about that, whether it's aligned or not aligned or -- Canning: I think we are closer on the rail corridors, because we are not part of that historic part and Ithink Ihad -- when I presented to Council I may not have had it quite a clear as it was later made to me, but it does -- it does allow for taller stories right next to the rail corridors, but, then, the police department -- or the fire department had comments on that one. So, that was more I think internal, rather than with MDC Board. Borton: And you said they wanted to weigh in -- Canning: Yeah. Borton: -- on the topic -- Canning: Definitely. Wardle: Craig just asked if I could sort of frame the issue for the board. Meridian City County / MDC Workshop January 1.5, 2008 Page 18 of 30 De Weerd: Yes. Wardle: So, I'll frame the rail corridor area issue, because I think it's less complicated. Chief Anderson brought up the -- the subject of potential volumes of traffic on the rail corridor, hauling. items that may not be conducive to urban living and so one of those issues was what -- if you front up a lot of density on that corridor, specifically right along the corridor, what happens if you have a derailment. What happens if you have some sort of an emergency and one of the things that he asked for everyone to think about is if you step that off a number of bocks or a block, does that help the safety of the corridor. So, that was a discussion along the rail. I think the urban planning vision has really -- most of the time been front up as much against these as you can along the corridor, because that provides an opportunity for light rail and, then, some of those things. The real issue, I think, here in the rail corridor is we are not sure what our transit mode is going to be. The rail corridor continues to function as a thoroughfare for goods right now. That could change in the future, but right now it's not at that -- at that element. The Main -Meridian -- did I get that, Anna? Okay. The Main -Meridian discussion that we've had is -- is really as the split corridors goes in and we have five lanes of traffic along Meridian Road, the current design standards call for no more than three stories, is that -- Bird: It's five. Wardle: With a step back core, but the height is the issue in terms of -- we've had some property owners and some people looking at -- at the scope of downtown and wondering if they can take advantage of more of that traffic and vertically integrate it to potentially higher than four stories. That's the discussion, really, between Main and Meridian as it relates, essentially, from the tracks all the way to Fairview Avenue and Cherry Lane. So, that the -- Canning: Madam Mayor, President Slocum had -- or Chairman Slocum. Slocum; President. I like that. Canning: And the issue of the taller building is -- when you have a taller building, usually, you have less of the site developed as building, because you have got to have the parking somewhere on it, unless it's subterranean or built into the design. So, there is an issue about how much of the lot is covered is one of them, because we're looking for kind of a solid building facade along those streets, particularly along Main Street, because we want to make it pedestrian friendly. And the other thing was with over three or four steps -- four stories is that you create wind tunnels and so the environment becomes generally less Meridian City County / MDC Workshop January 15, 2008 Page 19 of 30 friendly to pedestrians. You know, you can go to downtown Boise and walk the different streets and you will get a different feeling for those that have the taller buildings and a different climate, a different feel. So, that's kind of the different provisions that we .have heard expressed thus far. De Weerd: Well, I guess that makes it if the building height is such it makes it more critical that you have surface parking in strategic places throughout downtown. So, again, it's one of coordination and if the buildings are taller, what do we -- how do we replace that parking element. So, those are future discussion points. Just want to plant the bug in your ear and make sure it's on your radar as well. I guess the other connection that -- on that Main to Meridian corridor, if you look just north of Washington or north of Carlson, that is kind of in that area that the Historic Preservation Commission is looking at and what homes that they'd like to work on encouraging preservation, looking at what can be placed out there, so that that look can be preserved, but we know it is not the highest and best use and so those are -- that's another area that needs further discussion and they have started those discussions. But as you can see with the green line that -- those are the sewer lines. That shows you that -- that they are not -- they are not in the street and most of Old Town area they are in the alleys or on the property -- on the back property line. So, that particular area on that north side between Main and Meridian has been a topic of conversation certainly with. staff, as is the area between Main and probably 2nd 1/2 as well. Does that kind of sum up some of the issue pieces that we talked about, Anna or Len? Grady: Yeah. De Weerd: Yes? No? Gorton: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes. Gorton: Len, can you give a quick explanation on this -- Grady: I wasn't -- I really wasn't aware that that was going to be passed it out, but -- De Weerd: Well, I know, because it has my notes on it. Grady: All that is is that's -- that's just work that shows which direction the sewer flows, so -- to get a handle on the -- and color is size, yes. Green is -- green is eight inch and the -- anything non-green is big. And blue is ten and I don't remember the colors. Actually, I know red is 12. Meridian City County /MDC Workshop January 15, 2008 Page 20 of 30 Bird: And what is -- is yellow eight? Grady: It's going to be eight or more -- thereabouts, so -- and we highlighted phase one on what you thought would develop first. Of course, now we have an 18 inch running right through that, so we should be -- we should be fine. Wardle: One of the things we looked at on the sewer capacity was where -- where did MDC feel that the largest consolidation of growth in the downtown core would stem from, so that's what you see in phase one and that's -- that was the area from which all of the subject studies sort of grew in terms of what is our capacity here, when will it be absorbed... Canning: Madam Mayor, I'm sorry, I missed your question the first time. I didn't hear it. De Weerd: Just the discussion about the preservation of some of the houses on Main Street or the Carlson -- the issues with the sewer line between Main and Meridian and also Main and 2nd 1/2 Street. Those are areas that have been identified as issues. Canning: And we are -- with regard to preservation of the homes, we have worked on the design guidelines for those areas and we will try and come up with additional incentives for maintaining those, converting them to office uses, but maintaining those to make a little more financial feasible -- I think there is opportunity for us to do that, similar to what we did with the in lieu fees, you know. Basically, the in lieu fees, they are not having to provide parking for any existing square footage. That's the big incentive. And that will continue in that area as well, but we could look for other things, too. Slocum: Anna, could I clarify? Is that planning staffs desires to maintain those homes or is that Council's desire? Canning: It was an issue that was bought up during the 2002 hearing. Ct is not something we are going to mandate, but it's something we want to at least accommodate for those folks that want to make it ,possible for them to maintain those. De Weerd: It was bought up in 2002. It has been a community priority and it's also been a concern, because the design guidelines bring the buildings to the sidewalk and you're going to have a little patchwork look if somehow to, then, encourage to redevelop or if some houses redevelop to the highest and best use versus those that are gutted and improved as is. So, it really was the desired Meridian City County /MDC Workshop January 15, 2008 Page 21 of 30 look in that area, .how can you build consistent incentives to encourage the desired look, not to prohibit the highest and best use, but to achieve the desired look. So, I guess that we see as a real issue. Certainly the Historic Preservation Commission would like to see those preserved. They have no legal basis. mean even if you're on the historical preservation list, there is nothing regulatory on that. So, it's what is the desired look for that area and how can we create incentives to achieve that. Borton: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes. Borton: Anna, are we -- we are not setting ourselves up for a situation where there is sort of alternative compliance where we could have one parcel build to the property line and the next one would be a house and have a really inconsistent look? De Weerd: That's our fear and that's what we still need to have further discussion in -- Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council for MDC, we don't have design guidelines for that area. That's going to -- that's going to be a tricky area for us, because it's kind of a subset of that urban core there, but I don't know that we do want to bring buildings up to the front and it will be an interesting discussion when we get to that point. You know, once you get out of that historical house part of the city where it's intended to be pedestrian traffic, what -- where do you want those buildings placed. Do we want some separation between those or do we want a solid facade -- I don't think we have ever had those discussions in depth and it's certainly something we need to work on. Wardle: If I can just point out the current zone is C-C, which would be, I think, probably inconsistent to the vision that we are talking about of more saving of historic areas, would that be a correct assumption, Anna? Canning: Well -- Wardle: The more -- the more intensive business uses that are currently principally permitted in this -- in this area than would -- probably we would see if they kept the homes -- or the structures and -- Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Members of the MDC, I can't visualize the two zoning districts in my head right now, but Old Town has quite a few number of principally permitted uses, probably similar to most of -- of any Meridian City County /MDC Workshop January 15, 2008 Page 22 of 30 other district would be C-C. So, they probably are fairly similar in the nature of the uses they allow -- now, the character of development clearly would be different, but in the Old Town planning designation the thought is that, eventually, that would be zoned Old Town to correspond with the Comprehensive Plan designation. De Weerd: Well -- and., actually, the definition, because it wasn't included in the design standards down here, is what is the appropriate scale. So, I think there is just a lot of questions in those areas and we will want to work closely together on developing that vision, to make sure we are all talking off the same sheet. Jones: Right. Well, Madam Mayor and City Council, other members of the MDC Board, I'm just thinking more and more about the challenge we have of providing adequate parking for downtown. I think the real deterrent right now to try to get a business to come downtown is the parking. I'm meeting tomorrow with a potential buyer for the Nazarene church, but he says without a parking structure nearby, I don't see how I can make this thing work. And that is a challenge we are going to have. You know, to afford a parking structure today -- or course Keith and I have talked about it many times -- I don't know -- we can't justify it today, unless someone steps up and takes a very low interest rate loan and we have people wanting to pay 50 bucks a month to park. I think that's a challenge we are going to have to get downtown developed is to find adequate parking for those people who will locate a business downtown. And I don't know what the solution is. If we had a parking structure it would be great, but the fellow that wants to buy the Nazarene church, he said a parking structure going in the back where those parking places are now would be great, but how do you finance a parking structure and make it work. I don't know what the solution is. I look at the one in Bend., Oregon. They built a nice parking structure with the down floor - - main floor is all retail, but, you know, it hasn't leased out yet. There is a post office in there and about half the down floor, downstairs, is empty. And, you know, downtown Bend is a vibrant little town, but -- Bird.: The parking structure come after the business come down. Jones: The parking structure -- it's not cash flowing. You know, they have got two floors above the retail for parking and it's not cash flowing and that's -- they got a problem there feeding that thing, so I guess we are going to have a problem downtown Meridian finding parking that's adequate for the downtown businesses that want to locate downtown. I just see it as a big challenge. I know Shaun has worked on it and we are working it and working it. Meridian City County /MDC Workshop January Y5, 2008 Page 23 of 30 Wardle: We are working diligently and we have a request in. I met with a member of senior loan committee members at one of our community banks that had expressed some interest in looking at that at a low interest rate, so -- Jones: Like zero, uh? Wardle: You know the bank well and I don't think that it's a zero arrangement. Jones: I'm afraid not. But that is a big challenge we have, Mayor and Council, MDC is -- the more I talk to people that want to come downtown, that issue comes up quite often, where am I going to have my clients park and I really haven't been able to give them an answer yet. I know we are working on it, but it's got to be convenient parking for the clients, so -- that's my two bits worth. Canning: Of course, a governmental entity is having a similar problem downtown -- Jones: I think so. Rountree: Minor detail. Jones: You know, Mayor, one more comment. The Greenfield versus the Old Town hook-up fees, you know, I'd like to see us go with the lower fee for downtown to try to encourage businesses to come downtown. You have got a 50 percent fee, it's not that much in dollars and cents, but it might be a little more enticement to try to bring development to downtown, which we are so desperately trying to do. So, you know, I'd just like to see maybe a little lower hook-up fees for the downtown core. Slocum: Yeah. I have been asked if anything -- you know, we, as an urban renewal agency of the city can do to incentivize coming downtown versus some other city or some other location. I don't know if you have been presented before with a plan, but -- Rountree: We have. Turlington: I was also really sort of intrigued with your comments, Councilman, on ACRD -- the city of Boise, rather, perhaps bringing legislation that would exempt urban renewal districts from impact fees. You know, certainly, you know, that should be an indefinite period, but if there is discussion, it would be interesting to see how that's framed and if there is, you know, a one year or two year window where it could be presented to businesses that, you know, here is your opportunity get in now and,, then, understand what that impact fee might be Meridian City County / MDC Workshop January 15, 2008 Page 24 of 30 to ACRD, the impact off of impact fees and, then, really, how does that affect their ability to provide services throughout the rest of the district. So, that's a really interesting -- especially if you're in the five to ten to 12 dollars for a commercial building, that gets really pricey and if there is a window open for some businesses to come down and come in and build something and have that not on the balance sheet, it could be make a big difference. But, in the end, you know, there has to be a lot of facts put on the table, obviously. Jones: Scott and others have -- and I agree with you, I think if we can have a lower impact fee, make sure in the short run, but in the long run we are way ahead to get development going and get them on the tax rolls, because we will make it up down the road. On the short end of it, it's better to have a low impact fee, so you would bring people into the urban renewal agency, that district. Rountree: Madam Mayor, I might comment on that issue. I think, yeah, it has merit, but it also has a potential to backfire, given the mood and tenor of the legislature and their feelings for urban renewal districts at this point. So, I think if that issue is forced it could have -- Jones: True. Rountree: -- ramifications on whether or not we even have urban renewal districts. Turlington: It would be great if we could shift that mood and tenor and their dislike towards urban renewal districts to ACHD. De Weerd: Bite your tongue. Bird: It's not only ACHD, but Nampa and -- Madam Mayor? I realize that the parking is probably very major and impact fees and all that and I'm for encouraging anything we can get downtown, because it's pretty hard in an economy right now that's down, that I'm going to come down and pay in excess of 25 dollars a square foot when I can go out to an EI Dorado or to a Centre Pointe and have all kinds of room for five to seven dollars a square foot. I think our big challenge is to figure out -- is to make it that people want to come downtown. Right now we have nothing to bring them downtown. Hopefully, that's -- I know that was Tammy and I's dream for City Hall at least sparking some to be coming downtown, because let's all face the facts, we could have went one mile to the east and paid a lot less money and had a lot more ground. But we made a commitment back in '98 when we first come on board that we were going to stay downtown with the City Hall. So, we could sit and debate and we can give lower hook-up fees, which might help., but I don't think -- I don't think Meridian City County /MDC Workshop January 15, 2008 Page 25 of 30 that's your underselling deal. Your parking's not underselling -- you have something -- you got to have a reason to have a parking structure. CCDC and -- didn't have a parking first, they got the business down there and., then, they made the parking structure they had built and be paid for. Shaun's working his tail off to get us some on-surface parking, which I think that would really help. But we -- we need to have something to encourage the people to downtown, because we not only have small lots -- and I see MDC as being a tool to go buy some ground, so that a developer can come down and he can buy -- if we have got a hundred thousand square foot or so -- I mean of land, we don't tell him to go out and buy 60 different properties, we have already got it taken care of, because downtown is very small lots and you have got to go buy -- we got to have the land if we want to encourage people down and I -- I think there is numerous areas that we have to work on. And I, for one, am willing to work diligently to get the people downtown. I want to see our downtown grow, but I don't think a parking structure is going to bring people down. I don't think impact fee relief is going to bring people down. I wish I had a crystal ball and could know what was going to bring them down. That's my two cents worth. I think we just need to really work and, hopefully, September 1st when we are all set up in City Hall, people will start coming down and maybe we can get the little shops in and I know Shaun's working his tail off to get some interest downtown there and we are not going to get -- we are not going to get the big financial deals, we are not going to get a Washington Square or BoDos or anything like that, but if we could get an enlarged Hyde Street, I would be -- Hyde Park, I would be happy. Zaremba: Just one quick thought. The downtown marketing plan study identified a number of things that could be done and I think most people have bought into them. One of the simplest things they suggested that we have not done yet -- and maybe I'll call it low hanging fruit -- is put up signs around and point to downtown. That's cheap. That's something we could do pretty easy, pretty quick: Wardle: Good idea. I'm writing it down. I have just one other -- one other issue - - and I know Len just presented this in terms of Greenfield versus -- versus lower for downtown and he used the term I think five percent, Len? If fees were reduced 50 percent in the urban renewal area, but they would only increase five percent in the city wide -- and here is where I think today our focus -- today our focus is parking, retail, and office, but I think when we look at the types of housing -- and I know it's not our focus current, but if we look to the future, that may be an incentive that would drive higher density work force affordability in terms of housing. That is something that I know developers plug in and they plug in not only ACHD's impact fees, but they plug in sewer -- sewer connection, water connection and -- Meridian City County / MDC Workshop January Y5, 2008 Page 26 of 30 Zaremba: Parks. Wardle: -- and park connection fees and it may be an opportunity to look to -- that that one issue may swing a project in terms of the affordability of their housing. We have talked that we don't think Meridian in the short term will become a 600,000 dollar condo market downtown Meridian, so if we are looking for more affordable work force housing, that may be a tool that could be researched further. De Weerd: Anything further? Borton: Madam Mayor? Is there correlation between what MDC's doing with Visual Genesis and some of that modeling and the underlying infrastructure data that -- that Len in his report talks about, so when a project wants to come in and develop project X on this parcel, not only could visually explain how it fits in the zoning, but also how it impact existing infrastructure, sewer capacity, as an example. This makes reference to -- doesn't talk about the impact of development outside the core on downtown capacity. Is there some overlay that -- that allows that to be presented? Grady: Well, certainly, if there any -- any information they have that would improve the knowledge we have of what's going to happen downtown, we would use -- and be able to fine tune to get better information. So, I think, unfortunately, there is probably not -- not too much we can send your direction. Slocum: I think that it would -- I don't know if Joe's headed where I'm heading, but, you know, as an architect we do projects in vicinities where we can pull up 3- Dmapping and turn on the layer that shows where sewer lines are, what capacity they have; water lines, what capacity they have, so that in a very short time a developer can determine what the scope of my project is. If the information you have provided today is in a format that we can layer it in our Visual Genesis, it would be very helpful Grady: The problem I have, though., is we approved Pinebridge, which is up there., yeah, and that relieves you of that capacity. Slocum: Yeah. And maybe it's not the detail of specific capacity, maybe it's lines and line location, line size, so that I'm looking at, you know, compiling five pieces and I know I'm going to have to relocate a ten inch sewer main, I'd rather know it up front and build it into my .project or I know I have to move a building here and not have do it, those kinds of things. Meridian City County / MDC Workshop January 15, 2008 Page 27 of 30 Grady: I guess what I'm saying is that we can probably get our GIS people in touch and, you know, and figure out if there is overlap for their information. Borton: Madam Mayor? Is it too early in what you guys are doing with Visual Genesis to talk about -- maybe that's way outside the scope of what they are doing in the first phase, but -- Wardle: What we are doing right now is we are base -- we are base mapping the urban renewal area and so that will provide us, really, the ability to add layers, as was talked about. And we will talk tomorrow about -- with our consultant what that means. But as I understand it, this has become a tool that architects and engineers, if we give them the keys, they can take it out and you can color everything pink and make it 20 stories for purposes of looking at what that would look like, if -- once we have the tools in place. So, there is a very real possibility and we will take that into consideration. Grady: How long do you think before the tool would be in place? In other words, once you start it, a six month model or -- Wardle: I would think a couple months. Josh? Grant: I think in a couple months. I'd like to have it six months -- Grady: And the reason I'm asking is we are going to update the sewer model, we are going to get better information and that's probably what we would want to utilize. Bird: Len, is there any way on the Five Mile Trunk that some of that at the northern edge of it could be diverted into White Trunk -- Grady: I think there are -- Bird.: -- and give us more capacity at Five Mile? Grady: I think are opportunities upstream and downstream to -- Bird: At one time when we looked at it I thought -- De Weerd: And that's what the survey is looking at. Bird: Yeah.. That's what we -- at one time that was brought up. De Weerd: In phase two. Meridian Ciry County /MDC Workshop January 15, 2008 Page 28 of 30 Bird: Yes. De Weerd: Charlie? Rountree: Madam Mayor, I know we have talked about this sewer subject in the middle of town and have the opportunity yet, again, to maybe explorer some possibilities with development. With the industry that was there out, I don't know if it's time to look at maybe rezoning that if we can, if that's appropriate. I know the railroad's lost their personal representative in this area. I don't know if a new one's been appointed or hired at this point in time, nor do I know if they are going to do that. I have no idea what Meridian did to the railroad to have them not receptive to anything that we are proposing to them, but I think now is not a bad time to see if we can't open up a dialogue with the railroad to see if there is something that they would like to partner with us and clean up the mess that they have created in our downtown. I think between Bank of the Cascades, the city's investment, and some other things that we talked about coming into downtown, maybe the railroad can take a look at what they have created down there or let happen down there. Maybe there is -- maybe we are in a situation where maybe they can get a little more out of that property by partnering with the city or partnering with MDC. I know there is all kinds of feelings that have been hatched -- already hatched., but to me those deals are not going to come to fruition unless the railroad let's it happen. I think we have got to approach them to see if there is some way that they can work with the City of Meridian. I don't think they are selling it at this point in time, but I would think that it would be appropriate to -- and they certainly could be a better citizen and a better neighbor to the City of Meridian, given the investment going on in downtown and the direction we want to go. I don't know if they have heard our story again or need to hear our story again, but I think we need to sell our story again and we need to get at the right body. De Weerd: Ted., do you have any thoughts you want to share? Baird: I think maybe Councilman Rountree is trying to -- De Weerd.: I was sort of thinking the same thing. Baird.: In all seriousness, there is -- they are really hard to read. Rountree: I understand that. Baird: But the situation you described there is probably an opportunity to re- approach them and we might be surprised -- Meridian City County /MDC Workshop January 15, 2008 Page 29 of 30 Rountree: Well, I'm looking at MDC, looking at -- you know, Clarence has got a fair amount of clout in the financial community and experience and connections. He certainly can be part of the ambassador group that can talk to the railroad representing MDC and the concerns of the city, part of a major investment group that sees downtown Meridian as something other than a derelict site for old railroad cars and old dilapidated buildings. So, I would start there and build a team of folks that could strategize and put together an approach to first deal with the new state representative, that personal representative -- if there is one. have not heard of a replacement for Charlie Clark at this point in time. I don't know if there is. Have you heard, Clarence? Jones: I haven't, Charlie. Baird.: Ryan, is there one? Rountree: I think we need -- you know, I just hate to give up. To me, it's really an opportunity for the railroad to shine. Baird: Madam Mayor? Rountree: And they don't shine well in Idaho right now, quite frankly, because they told commerce in Idaho that we are not going to help your commerce with additional rail capacity unless you have way more units per month than anything industry can provide from the state of Idaho. So, they are losing the political clout that they used to have. Baird.: Madam Mayor, Member of the Council, and MDC Commission, I think Councilmember Rountree's point is a good one. They, for whatever reason, that when the city speaks it falls on deaf ears at the railroad.. Money is important to them, but if they are approached by the local businesses with a solid plan, it's probably going to be better received than partnership that we have been seeking in the past that are foreign words to them. That's all I have to add at this point. Zaremba: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba. Zaremba: I would just comment on two experiences that probably everybody knows about. Valley Regional Transit and its previous version Via Transit and everything else has been trying to work with the railroad for many many years and has been having pretty much the same experience that Meridian has. In their initial contacts when the railroad thought nobody wanted the land, it was Meridian Ciry County / MDC Workshop January 15, 2008 Page 30 of 30 going to be cheap, but when they showed interest all of a sudden -- you know, they'd give it away if nobody wanted it, but when you looked like you wanted it, all of a sudden the price skyrockets. That's a similar bad experience that's been going on and certainly the. railroad has heard from people in this area, because they are hearing from Valley Regional Transit. But on the good side of the experience, somehow Boise managed to buy -- I don't know how much, a couple miles -- several miles of that railroad track. I don't remember exactly where it is. think it starts about where Micron is and., then, goes farther out for another couple of miles. But whoever Boise worked that deal out with, maybe we should get some advice from, unless we already have. De Weerd: Well, in consideration of time, maybe Ted and Shaun, you can put your heads together and identify an ambassador's team -- Wardle: We will. De Weerd: If the timing is right and I think that the city experienced considerable delay and an unfortunate situation happened and it seemed like all of a sudden we got a lease. So, maybe the timing is right to start those discussions. So, if there is nothing further from either board., I would entertain a motion to close. Bird: So moved. Rountree: Second. De Weerd: We have a motion to close. All those in favor say aye. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. De Weerd: Thank you. MEETING ADJOURNED AT 7:42 P.M. (TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) ATTESTED: G~~:l~~e~ y~ MAYOR T MY De WEERD ATTESTED: 2 / 1`1 / 0~,,,,,,~;~~~t~,~,,,,,,,,, DATE APPROVED \~,.~~,~ ~ ~~'~~~;~~'%,~~~~ ~ -. F o PE~R~-dR., CITY (~E K ~~~~' _1~ Cep ~U~IYI~~r. ~ °~`~ ~ ~, ,, ,. ~ '~~rrrrrrrn n~c~~~~~~