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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes Meridian City Council September 17, 1996 Page 16 Corrie: Is this the general feeling from the Council? Morrow: Would you amend the motion to reflect that please? Rountree: I will withdraw my second. Bentley: Mr. Mayor I would move that we table this until October 1 and notify the applicant if there is no one representing them present it will be dropped from the agenda. Rountree: Second Corrie: Motion made that we table to October 1 for the notification on the request, any further discussion? All those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea ITEM #5: FINAL PLAT FOR BEDFORD PLACE SUBDIVISION NO. 3 BY BRIGHTON CORPORATION: Corrie: I will entertain a motion for table. Tolsma: So moved Rountree: Second Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Tolsma, second by Mr. Rountree to table to October 1 meeting on item 5 the Bedford Place Subdivision final plat, any further discussion? All those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea ITEM #6: FINAL PLAT FOR THE LAKE AT CHERRY LANE NO. 5 SUBDIVISION BY STEINER DEVELOPMENT: Corrie: Is there a representative from Steiner Development here? Bradbury: Mr. Mayor and members of the Council my name is Steve Bradbury I am here to present the final plat for the Lake at Cherry Lane No. 5. I assume that you have plats in front of you, if you don't or if it would be more convenient to look at 8 1 /2 by 11's I have some that I can pass out if you would like them. If you have eyes like me you won't be able to see that one anyway. Mr. Mayor and members of the Council this is the final plat • ~ Meridian City Council October 15, 1996 Page 2 ITEM #1: TABLED OCTOBER 1, 1996: FINAL PLAT FOR BEDFORD PLACE SUBDIVISION N0. 3 BY BRIGHTON CORPORATION: Corrie: Council, we have received a transmittal that they would like to table that until the meeting of November 5. Morrow: So moved Bentley: Second Corrie: Motion made and seconded that that we table item 1 until November 5, any further discussion? Rountree: That would actually be November 6 would it not? Corrie: They said the 5th but it would be the 6th, they made a mistake on theirs. Rountree: Well Election day is the 5th, they wouldn't have known that we weren't going to have a meeting on the 5th. Corrie: You are right, that is election day. Any further discussion? All those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea ITEM #2: FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW FOR VARIANCE FOR TURTLE CREEK SUBDIVISION N0. 1 BY JON STEELE: Corrie: Council you have those findings of fact in front of you tonight. Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I would move that we approve the findings of fact and conclusions of law as written. Rountree: Second Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Morrow, second by Mr. Rountree that we approve the findings of fact and conclusions of law as written, any further discussion? Roll call vote ROLL CALL VOTE: Morrow -Yea, Bentley -Yea, Rountree -Yea, Tolsma -Yea MOTION CARRIED: All Yea • Meridian City Council October 1, 1996 Page 5 Morrow: That is what we have a zoning enforcement officer for. Berg: But he knows he is supposed to get approval. Corrie: Any further discussion? All those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea ITEM #3: TABLED SEPTEMBER 17, 1996: FINAL PLAT FOR BEDFORD PLACE SUBDIVISION N0. 3 BY BRIGHTON CORPORATION: Corrie: We have a request that be tabled by Gene Smith the engineer for that corporation, entertain a motion. Rountree: So moved Tolsma: Second Morrow: Do we have a date? Corrie: No we don't have a date until October 15. Motion made that we table the final plat for Bedford Place Subdivision No. 3 to the October 15 meeting, any further discussion? All those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea ITEM #4: TABLED SEPTEMBER 17, 1996: MERIDIAN PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH REQUEST HOOKUP TO CITY WATER AND SEWER: Corrie: That was tabled for further study of the detailed sewer end water problems guess Mr. Smith Smith: Mr. Mayor and Council members I believe that extension of the sewer in Ustick Road from Meridian Road west is not going to be a feasible situation for even the park site. I wasn't able to confirm that with my assistant but in talking to Mr. Hoffman tonight that is the information that he got from Brad my assistant. So it doesn't appear that the extension of the sewer in Ustick Road for this particular development is appropriate. This piece of property can be served by an extension of a service line from Meridian Road that is presently stubbed out to this property. And that service line will be property of the developer of the church it won't be a City line. It will have to be installed in accordance with the Uniform Plumbing Code and inspected by our plumbing inspector. In terms of the ,_ ~ • • MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL NOVEMBER 6. 1996 The regular meeting of the Meridian City Council -was called to order by Mayor Robert D. Corrie at 7:30 P.M.: MEMBERS PRESENT: Walt Morrow, Glenn Bentley, Charlie Rountree, Ron Tolsma: OTHERS PRESENT: Will Berg, Shari Stiles, Bruce Freckleton, Chief Gordon, Tiger Cub Scouts Den #3, Steve Simmons, Garth Jenson, Bill Simons: MINUTES OF PREVIOUS MEETING HELD OCTOBER 15, 1996: Corrie: Before we start I want to welcome the Tiger Scouts Den #3 this evening and their parents and those that are helping with the cubs. Welcome to City Hall and to the meeting. I hope you had a nice tour and I hope you see how the City government works here tonight, it is going to be kind of a short meeting but there are a few changes on the agenda but we will go through it as we let you know as we go through it. Council members you have the minutes of the meeting held October 15, 1996, are there any corrections or alterations to those minutes? Entertain a motion that we accept the minutes. Rountree: So moved Morrow: Second Corrie: Motion made and seconded that we accept the minutes of the meeting held October 15, 1996 as approved, all those in favor say aye? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea ITEM #1: TABLED OCTOBER 15, 1996: FINAL PLAT FOR BEDFORD PLACE SUBDIVISION NO. 3 BY BRIGHTON CORPORATION: Corrie: Shari, do you want to kind of fill the Council in on what is happening here? Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council after 5:00 today we got a written response to our comments and I also. received today a sketch but I would like to have time to review that and talk to Nampa Meridian and make sure that they have no problems with their proposal. Morrow: That being the case Mr. Mayor I would move that we table to our next meeting which would be the 19th of November. Bentley: Second Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Morrow, second by Mr. Bentley that we table the final plat for Bedford Place Subdivision No. 3 until the meeting on November 19, any further ,.. _ Meridian City Council November 6, 1996 Page 2 discussion? All those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea ITEM #2: FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A FAMILY ENTERTAINMENT CENTER BY SELECT DEVELOPMENT AND CONTRACTING INC.: Corrie: Council you have those findings. Bentley: Mr. Mayor, I would have a question for Becky Bowcutt, have you received copies of the findings? Bowcutt: Yes sir we have. Bentley: And you understand all of the changes that they are requiring to be made? Bowcutt: Yes we have. Bentley: Are they acceptable? Bowcutt: We will have to live with them, it is the will of the Council. Bentley: That is all I have. Morrow: Mr. Mayor I would move that we adopt and approve the findings of fact and conclusions of law as written. Rountree: Second Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Morrow, second by Mr. Rountree that we approve the findings of fact and conclusions of law as written, any further discussion? Hearing none, roll call vote. ROLL CALL VOTE: Morrow -Yea, Bentley -Yea, Rountree -Yea, Tolsma -Yea MOTION CARRIED: All Yea Corrie: Motion on the decision? Morrovv: Mr. Mayor, the City of Meridian hereby decides that the conditional use permit for • ., r Meridian City Council November 19, 1996 Page 6 discussion? All those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: 1 No, 3 Yea Morrow: Point of question, I would assume by the motion then the Council has not chosen to have any mitigation in terms of adopting the letters or that kind of thing? Corrie: Counselor? Rountree: I believe a considerable amount of that is in the findings, but specifically to that letter Crookston: The findings have already been approved, you an reopen it and request that letter or those letters be included in the findings and adopted within those findings. Rountree: Just by motion without Crookston: You would have to bring it back up. Rountree: Well I can't bring it back up because I voted against the findings, but I don't have an objection to it being brought back up. Corrie: You can bring it back up and we can vale to put the comment of Mr. Forrey into the Bentley: So moved, I make a motion we bring that back. Tolsma: Second Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bentley, second by Mr. Tolsma that we incorporate the three conditions (ina~.adible) Masonry company to be put in the findings of facet and conclusions, any further discussion? All those in favor of the motion? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea ITEM #3: TABLED NOVEMBER 6, 1996: FINAL PLAT FOR BEDFORD PLACE SUBDIVISION N0. 3 BY BRIGHTON CORPORATION: Morrow: Mr. Mayor, questions in our packet, the only information we had was a letter dated November 1 from Shari talking about Bruce Freckleton and she had met with David Turnbull and Mike Tanner on October 16 to discuss our comments and concerns regarding the above referenced plat. The main issues are the pedestrian pathway, Nampa Meridian Meridian City Council November 19, 1996 Page 7 Irrigation (inaudible) nor have we received a revised plat. I would ask Shari to bring us up to date and Bruce up to date with where that is. Stiles: Mayor and Council and Councilman Morrow we did receive response to our comments, also in your packet you should have a proposed sketch for the pedestrian pathway. Morrow: Is that the one that is dated today that was in our box tonight? Stiles: Yes, that is what they are proposing to do. They are showing the pathway on Finch Creek property. While it would not be the preferred pathway it is at least something. John Anderson from Nampa Meridian Irrigation District was in here, I don't know if he would be able to comment on it. The major problem that I have with that proposed layout is the 90 degree turns, people maneuvering bicycles perhaps. I wouldn't have any problem if Council approves of that layout as shown as long as it is conditioned on all staff and agency comments, Nampa Meridian Irrigation District approval and the property owner approval. I have no indication from the owner of that parcel that they would allow that walkway to be part of their lot. Morrow: Bruce, issues that you had? Freckleton: Councilman Morrow, I believe that the rest of the questions that we did have were answered with the written response. So this I believe is the only hang up we have. Morrow: The pathway? Freckleton: Yes Morrow: And the issue there is the owners permission in the Finch Creek area? Freckleton: Yes that is true, Finch Creek Subdivision is a recorded subdivision on record. There is a house under construction right now on the tot that this pathway would cross. Morrow: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, can we have a response to those comments by Mr. Turnbull who is a developer of Bedford Place please? Tumbull: Mr. Mayor, members of the Council my name is David Tumbull, we did meet with Shari and Bruce back in the latter part of October and discussed some remedies. I guess when we went through the revised preliminary plat of Bedford Place Subdivision it wasn't brought to our attention that there was a pathway stubbing in from the Finch Creek Subdivision. In either the case the pathway that was proposed in our revises and ., , L~ Meridian City Council November 19, 1996 Page 8 • approved preliminary plat versus the one that we have here now, neither one of them exactly lined up with that pathway. So we have gone back to the Borup's who are the developers of the Finch Creek Subdivision as well as the people to whom. they sold the lot which is under construction now. Suggested some revisions which we met with Shari and Bruce about and they were all in favor of those revisions. It does make a lot of sense for the neighbor in that the wide arc swing of the Finch Lateral is straightened out they are able to reclaim more of their back yard. So there would be less of a no roan's land back there that is really not usable to anyone. They were interested in having this revision made. Also, the place where the path does jog actually covers and easement or at least it is an outlet for the storm drainage for the Finch Creek subdivision. So it goes right over that underground piping and seems to make sense to everybody involved. So if you have any other concerns or questions about it I would be glad to answer it. I would note that Shari I think still has an interest in continuing that pathway along the Finch Creek lateral. I don't know if that would ever come to pass but if it did then this would probably make an excellent connection in that respect since it straightens that area out as well. With that I will answer any questions you may have. Rountree: You indicated that you had discussed this with the property owner? Turnbull: Yes with both John Anderson of Nampa Meridian and the adjacent property owners. I talked with Shari this morning she wanted to receive some sort of written confirmation and I said we are happy to provide that and it would be acceptable to us to have the approval of this final plat conditioned upon us providing those kind of license agreements and written confirmation from the adjacent property owner. Is that correct Shari? Stiles: Yes, and I wanted to make sure that if this doesn't work out that Mr. Turnbull you are aware that you may be providing that through that present lot that you show there. T~.~mbull: It may have to come back but we have had thcse discussions with the adjacent property owners and Nampa Meridian, I think everything is in order. So we will go ahead if this final plat is approved and get that written confirmation and provide it to Shari. Corrie: David, that fence over the Nampa Meridian Irrigation easement, that has been okayed by them? Turnbull: Yes I believe so. Corrie: So you have that in writing as well? Turnbull: There is a license agreement already in place regarding that fence. ~~ Meridian City Council November 19, 1996 Page 9 Corrie: Any further questions? Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I noticed that John Anderson is here now, can we have his comments with respect to that issue in terms of Shari's request? Anderson: I was outside, on Bedford regarding the entrance and exit? Stiles: Mr. Turnbull just indicated that he had a license agreement in place for that fencing as it is shown on his proposal? Anderson: That is tnae, I don't believe that is (inaudible) we have all the details worked out where I am satisfied that (inaudible). Once the Board signs it I can't second guess them I can't see any reason why they won't sign that, probably at their next meeting. Stiles: So John that pathway will not just run straight into that inlet structure? Anderson: No, the plan is to run the, where the inlet structure is now is to box that all in and run the pipe line on the Finch Lateral south slough up another 50 feet. It will go behind a fence in -the gate so nobody will run into that. It shouldn't be a problem. Stiles: So you are satisfied safety will be met there. Anderson: If it is all done yes, if it is done just like the plan says. Morrow: Thank you Mr. Mayor, thank you John. Corrie: Any further comments from Council? Entertain a motion on the final plat. Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I would move that we approve the final plat for Bedford Place Subdivision No. 3 subject to written confirmation (inaudible) Mr. Anderson has alluded to and other staff conditions and requirements as required by our staff and ACHD and other staff. Rountree: Second Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Morrow, second by Mr. Rountree that the final plat for Bedford Place Subdivision No. 3 be approved subject to the conditions of the motion, any further discussion? All those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea •. ~ y • " ~ Meridian City Council April 15, 1997 Page 33 Hill: (Inaudible) Corrie: So you can make your application if you would like, again we are not saying yea or nea at this point until we get, but it would be May 20tH Hill: (Inaudible) Corrie: Anything else Shari? Stiles: Mr. Tanner made it into the building so we can go on with this. This is on Bedford Place Subdivision No. 3. One of the conditions of the application was that they work out the pedestrian, one of the conditions of the final plat was that they work out the pedestrian walkway that is already in existence in the Finch Creek Subdivision. They made this proposal at that time. Nampa Meridian Irrigation District threw John Anderson nodding his head in the audience that he thought that this would work. When Mike Tanner of Brighton Corporation went before the board of Nampa Meridian Irrigation District Mr. Anderson had changed his mind and they denied this concept. I guess the only choices we really have are that I am aware of. They could go in and try to do it without Nampa Meridian's blessing and see how long it lasted. But in order to do that they would have to extend this piping and move the head wall structure because currently it would be where this pathway is that is where the existing head wall structure is. Of course they would have to get Nampa Meridian's permission to do that. Another option wrould be that they continue the walkway through was they had proposed as a buildable lot, lot #28 and stay off of this non-encroachable easement. It seems the problem the irrigation district has is they do not want their trucks and pedestrians sharing the same area. The other option that I don't think is appropriate is to eliminate the walkway altogether. There does need to be this connection through. I guess I would like Mr. Tanner to come up now and see if he has got any other ideas. They are waiting to have their final plat signed and we can't sign it until we have this issue taken care of. Tanner: Thank you Mayor Corrie and members of the Council, Mr. Crookston, Mr. Berg, I appreciate the opportunity to talk for a minute. We are kind of in a catch 22, and I would like to just give, I only have two copies here but maybe if tvvo groups of you could look at what I have highlighted here. You may have something similar to this on a report from Shari already. Shari just simply shows that jog in our tie with Finch Creek. As you look at this you can see our Bedford Place Subdivision and we have a 25 foot non- encroachable and to Nampa Meridian non-encroachable means that you can't encroach with structures or large trees or something that would impede their ability to operate and maintain a canal. Right now we have piped that canal that irrigation ditch in 36 inch concrete pipe up to the border of our property and right at the boundary of our property as we border Finch Creek Subdivision we have got a head wall structure. You can see even over in Finch Creek Subdivision and I also brought a copy of the recorded plat and I will (inaudible) Maybe pass that around, you can see on the copy that I left you and on the recorded plat what I left is simply a copy of the recorded plat. -But the Nampa Meridian Irrigation District easement curves upward and actually. encloses the -half of the Meridian City Council ~ • April 15, 1997 Page 34 walkway designated by Finch Creek. We were going to try, we have tried to tie these two walkways together, the Borups and ourselves. We have agreed we can do that physically between the two of us. The thing that stands in the way is Nampa Meridian Irrigation District. They have an easement there to operate and maintain an irrigation ditch right now that is tiled. What we propose to do is to extend the tiling another 64 feet upstream back to the east on that ditch. Put in a new head wall structure and then in yellow as you can see highlighted in yellow to make a walkway there to tie those two subdivisions together. John Anderson as Shari said sat right in this meeting and said that sounds good to us. We met with their attomeys Ringert Clark and met with John and John again, he was concerned at that meeting, didn't think we could do it. He was concerned about liability for a walk way. They consider and if, I think this Council is probably familiar with their issues. But they feel like that it is an attractive nuisance. If you put a pathway you have got an attractive nuisance. There is a liability you are attracting people into the area and they are going to be liable and they want somebody to accept that liability. Well they don't own this ground we own it. It is an easement, they don't have any exclusive easement they simply have an easement to offer operate and maintain. We can do what we need to do with that ground as long as we don't interfere with what they do. We do however have to extend that pipe line in their ditch, we have to place a head wall structure. We are willing to do that, we expressed in the meeting with their attorneys they said, John said okay what about the liability, we said listen every owners association that we organize we take out a million dollar liability. He wasn't real thrilled because he wanted an organization like a City or an agency that is stronger and going to be here forever. But finally consented and agreed okay you take out a million dollar policy and with your owners association to maintain that common area and that walkway and we will do it. Just the day before the meeting with the board John called me up on the phone, he says nothing personal but I have to oppose you on this thing. I don't know how we can do this, we are opening Pandora's box, gosh if you do it then everybody can do it. We just don't like these pathways. Our trucks have got to go down these things and here you have got walkers and bikers on it. Well my own opinion is 25 feet is plenty wide to put it, we can put a 6 foot walkway on that thing and shoot they can ride their trucks on one side and we can walk on the other. But that isn't the issue and I think this Council knows. So we are caught, I need some help from this Council. I have a plat that is ready to be signed and we have done the work and done everything that we know how to do. Borup's are in concurrence with Finch Creek they are willing to do it. But we have both got an easement here that really covers both of the walkways and it wouldn't matter whether we put it in this location or whether we moved it north 50, 60, 70 feet, it is still covered by their easement. So I really need some direction and help here. Shari, I think somebody whether you or the highway district up north in the next phase, phase 4, we have got to tie a stub road that stubs to that property back to the east. Of course we can tie the subdivisions there with sidewalks and stub roads. But, this is a bad spot, I don't know. Rountree: What have you found with your conferencing with those folks? Meridian City Council ~ • April 15, 1997 Page 35 Morrow. Well this is, as we will find out in our Tuesday night meeting when we have discussion concerning the irrigation issue. This is a prime example of we had initially started from the standpoint that maybe it was a great idea to deed these lots to Nampa Meridian. We have come now full circle in using this as an example. Shari and I went to the job site, reviewed it from all standpoints. This is a (inaudible). I think the bottom line from our committee's stand point if this would have been deeded to Nampa Meridian and we as a City would have been shut out of usage on this we wouldn't be having this presentation at all. I think we need to as a Mayor and Council Tuesday next after the presentation where we have prepared for you have a discussion about what it is we want to do. We had been led to believe that Nampa Meridian would be amenable to bike paths, walking paths on top of these lots that we have (inaudible) to them. The (inaudible) would be performed by Nampa Meridian. I guess where I am at today personally is that this demonstrates to me that probably doesn't work that way. I think that if we follow a procedure like that we end up being held hostage as a City and that the reality is that we probably end up with no bike paths or walking paths of any kind. If we opt to go that way. In this particular area there is a half of an S curve that ditch follows that would be straightened out by this additional (inaudible). So no matter how you look at it (inaudible) the bottom line is as a Mayor and Council is to determine if we wish to go ahead, recognizing this is going to be (inaudible) to our staff, to Mr. Tanner, Mr. Turnbull of what it is they want done. I think that the points Mr. Tanner has raised about easements and the exclusive use and so on and so forth are valid and (inaudible) in this case I believe it is the homeowners association that would own this (inaudible). So I think what it boils down to is that we now need to make a decision as to what direction we want to go in as a City. This is a (inaudible) was it not also, was it not a request by Nampa Meridian that the City do the license agreement with them and we take the liability or potential liability for that. I guess my question to that Counselor is how can we subcontract the liability if we don't anything there? Crookston: The bigger question is can you get insurance for something you do not own. I don't believe you can. You have to have an insurable risk. Corrie: That is right, (Inaudible) Morrow. So therefore we couldn't execute a license agreement (inaudible) Crookston: That is correct. Morrow So I think that presents the facts as we have discussed them and that leads us (inaudible) Rountree: My personal opinion Nampa Meridian Irrigation district itself and its staff are probably a minimum of 50 years out of step with what is going on in the world today. I think they have got to recognize that in an urban environment where they are going to be doing most of their business in the next 20 years they are going to have to get with some of these things. As far as I am concerned we ought to press on with this and see Meridian City Council • • April 15, 1997 Page 36 what happens and support advancing the multiple uses of these corridors in our City. They have no other value then as a transportation facility be it water or pedestrian. They are an attractive nuisance the way they are now. 1 think they are probably less attractive if there are some improvements made and people recognize we are not going to climb fences and play in the water we are probably going to ride our bikes down and know what is there. I don't know what the remedy is but I think we as a City should take a strong stand with Nampa Meridian Irrigation district and maybe help them understand that things are different then they were 50 years ago. I guess the other point is these folks own this property. I don't think they have given up their right to use the property so I think they are in a much stronger position then maybe they feel they are. Morrow. I think what Nampa Meridian is requesting of us as a City is to have the property owner give up the right to usage. Rountree: I would oppose that at all, I can see exactly what you are saying happening, in fact that has happened in other communities, not with Nampa Meridian but with other irrigation districts where fees are then charged for access or no access is allowed at all. I don't offer a remedy but I think whatever can be done to advance getting this pathway built. Having the homeowners association accept the care and (inaudible) as if it were a common lot. I think that is how it was (inaudible). I guess we all stand back and take our (inaudible). I don't know what kind of position we are in, we really, like I said we don't own anything. Tolsma: We are having the same problem with our pathway project in Tully Park. Rountree: Well I think we have a remedy for that. Tolsma: (Inaudible) Bentley: I would agree, I think we need to take a stand on this. These things don't get taken care of they wind up being eye sores anyway. We have a chance to make something that is not usable. I just think it is time for them to come around to the 1990's. Morrow. What are your thoughts Bob? Tolsma: I fully concur with that, I believe what Charlie says is they are just (inaudible) they are not thinking of the future. This dead ground (inaudible) want to do the same thing, they want to put a gravel road on top of it (inaudible) with no traffic (inaudible). I think that is our area, I think it needs to be developed and used. It is better than having a gravel road. Bob: (Inaudible) Tanner: Mayor, as I just think in my mind about a procedure to go forward if the Council were to sign our plat allow us to bond .for this work because there is now water in the Meridian City Council ~ • April 15, 1997 Page 37 ditches we probably can't extend this pipe until October. At that point then when the water is cut out we can extend the pipe, we can build a head wall structure and we can put a pathway. Put a 6 foot pathway on one side of this and gravel the rest of it for Nampa Meridian Irrigation. Shari isn't it 6 foot wide, isn't that your ordinance width for a pathway, is that the width? Stiles: The pathway would be ten feet only five of it would need to be paved. Tanner: (Inaudible) the question that I have at some point in this thing if they get an injunction against us saying that is our ditch and you don't have our permission to put the in it and build a new head wall structure and fence it and go forward with whatever you are doing. Rountree: Then I guess you enjoin their actions against you, it is you property and they don't have any right for telling you how to use it. Tanner: They do have, there is a state law now that says that any organized ditch company you have to have their permission to the or reroute their ditch. It was 3 years ago or two years ago that was passed by the legislature so that is now law. So I am really caught, I guess I can do it and call their bluff but they can sure, I know a statute that is on their side. So I throw that out as a realistic. I guess. if push came to shove and everybody wanted to push this to the top I just want to be able to go forward. Corrie: You would be the one going to court (inaudible). Tanner: If they win the case then it is my hope that the City is going to back off and say we can't require you to do what we are trying to require you to do. Morrow. Let me ask to this Mr. Tanner, the portion that you would be tiling would fall within, does that fall within Finch Creek Subdivision? Tanner: Yes, but we have agreed with Borup's who own Finch Creek Subdivision at our expense they own that, but we have agreed at our expense to tile. Take that S curve Mr. Morrow that you referred to and exactly and Nampa Meridian was just thrilled when this was originally presented. Because now we have a straight road and we don't have this windy thing going all over and then this pathway got hooked into it. They just backed off on everything like 50 years behind the times.. It is on their property, it is on the Finch Creek Subdivision. property. The head wall structure would be, the tiling would be, part of the pathway. Of course part of the pathway is on our property. Morrow. Well from the City's standpoint do we not require a hook up there of Finch Creek folk so there is a certain portion that has to be tiled to allow that hook up to take place does it not? Meridian City Council ~ • April 15, 1997 Page 38 Stiles: Hook up of the pathway? It is already a dedicated platted lot in Finch Creek. Unless they ran that through exactly where it is adjacent to the property there. If they do go ahead and get this. platted recorded I would like there to be a note on the plat that this is anon-buildable lot until such time as that pathway is constructed. Morrow. Well I don't have any problem with any of that Shari, t guess my question here what I am trying to find out is that on this portion where we would put in or Mr. Tanner would put in the new covered ditch to allow the access to the gate for Nampa Meridian we could require or have required that to be tiled by the Finch Creek folk for their part of the pathway. Stiles: They were not required to the that no. Morrow. Were they required to put the pathway in this configuration? Stiles: In this configuration no. Where you see the 10 foot walkway that lot 9 where it hits the eastern boundary of Bedford Place that is the extent of their dedication on their plat. Morrow: Well I guess from my perspective is it seems to me it makes sense to sign the plat and go ahead and have them bond and see how the issue comes out in October. Rountree: I agree, just move on with it. Stiles: Just go ahead and have Finch Creek, the owner of this property, I am not sure that the Borup's still own that lot there. Tanner: Well the last, they had retained ownership and Shari I can't tell you today. As of a month ago they owned it and they were waiting for the license agreement from Nampa Meridian because they also have a license agreement with Nampa Meridian Irrigation District. They were waiting for this to happen so that they could they have agreed to pave the pathway on their property and fence on their property. And we would pave and fence on our property and what we agreed to do what go ahead and work with Nampa Meridian extend the pipe line and the head wall structure. Stiles: We would want to make sure all of that is bonded (End of Tape) fence that and do as much as they could. Tanner: I don't think that they have done any of that construction Shari at this point. To my knowledge they have not. I haven't looked at it for a month. Stiles: We would need a bond and we would need to make sure those easements were in place because they are not they are only to that boundary there. When you start going south there is not easement there. Meridian City Council ~ • April 15, 1997 Page 39 Tanner: They have agreed, Mayor and Council, they have agreed to grant the easement probably in favor of the owners association because that is the association that will own it and maintain it. Corrie: What do we need to move on here. Morrow: I think just instruct staff (inaudible) Tanner: One last comment Mayor and Council, what bothers me a little bit about this. I am concerned about losing a lot. We are now in the process and have extended water and sewer and we will extend the balance of utilities. I am really not excited about losing a lot or having a lot withheld for a reason that someone else won't allow me to perform. I will do everything that is within my power to do and I have represented that. The financial isn't an object of it but if somebody prohibits me from doing something that you require I don't, I would ask this Council not to prohibit me from building on a lot that otherwise is approved. Corrie: What happens if it doesn't work out the way you are looking at it here and lot 28 is sold then how are you going to connect? We are having (inaudible) we have to do something to get your pathway together. But if we don't at least have a way to get it across there other than (inaudible) where are we going to go? Tanner: That is a good question, it is a question that the Borup's and Finch Creek have is as difficult as mine. They would have to change, there is a plat that really that the pathway isn't a valid pathway either. Tough question, I understand. Morrow: If I might respond Mike I think that is a part of the gamble one takes. I guess if it were I in your shoes I would service lot and plan on it being a sellable lot. But I wouldn't sell it until I got this done. Because the back up card here is that the whole world turns upside down, the back up card is it goes on the other side of the lot and ties in on a portion of what would be the southeast comer of Lot 28. Nampa Meridian can figure out how they heck they are going to access the easement. Tanner: Their own easement? Morrow. Their own easement, my point is that if in the event that this ideal configuration goes away this moves over to this location and accesses to (inaudible) At that point in time on this side at that point in time that is a fall back position. The ideal is what we have seen now. I don't think that in all candor that as a councilman I wouldn't be willing to tell you to sell lot 28 and then put the City in the position of never having those two things hook up. What the heck is the point of even having (inaudible). Somehow we have got to have the things hook up one direction or the other. The preferred direction is this proposal that we are talking about right now. But if that goes away and it can't be done then there can't be an alternate. The only alternate that I can see is through lot 28. 1 ~ ~ Meridian City Council ~ • April 15, 1997 Page 40 Tanner: And you understand that even the west end of Finch Creek's easement there for a pathway is within Nampa Meridian Irrigation District's. There is no guarantee that even they can come to meet, that they can even bring a pathway to my property line let alone me if I were to give up all of lot 28 and say okay I lost that lot. Here we go I will run a pathway right through what you see as the middle of it and Iwill -run it right over and stub it to my property. I am still in Nampa Meridian's easement and their easement is still. Morrow: I understand that, I don't have a problem with that. I think that as a Council we have addressed. I think what we are talking about now is that if the inability to get the ditch covered and the head works in would be what precludes in my mind this configuration. If that turns south then the configuration of how these hook up to each other would have to change somewhat. But from my perspective we are leaving these two things hooked up irregardless of whether they are in an easement or not because we are on good ground in that case. I think the only thing that is tentative in my mind is the tiling of that 64 foot of ditch and the headwork's. I think there -might be the weak point. Tanner: I agree it is, and in my mind it is as well. Morrow. If we have a problem then there is another method by which we can tie those two together. But they will hook up because you own the ground, the Borup's own the ground, you can affect an easement for those areas to create those two paths to connect to each as the homeowners association (inaudible). That is how I see this. I think having said that don't sell lot 28 in this configuration until (inaudible). Tanner: So we withhold that from construction from sale until this tie is made and then at that point then it is released. Morrow: (Inaudible) Tanner: And we work that detail out with the staff. (Inaudible). Corrie: Thank you, anything else Shari? Lieutenant? Counselor? Crookston: I have nothing to present. Corrie: Mr. Morrow? Morrow. Really the only thing is we are going to do the executive session in a moment. Actually two things. One is that for non-revenue departments through the first 6 months of the construction season or fiscal year our residential income in the building department is down 27%. In commercial we are up $6 million, the net drop is or gross revenues is 15% for $10 worth of valuation. I think that means that those budgets for non-revenue departments need to be closely looked and closely monitored because