MinutesMeridian City Council Meetin~
December 18, 2001
Page 57
RECONVENED AT 9:31 P.M.
Item 16. Public Hearing: CUP 04-033 Request for a Conditional Use
Permit for a Group Day Care with approximately six children in an
R-8 zone for Virginia L. Beberness by Virginia L. Beberness -Lot
14, Block 3 of Tremont Subdivision:
Corrie: All right. I will reconvene the City Council and we are on Item No. 16,
which is a Public Hearing request for a Conditional Use Permit for a Group Day
Care with approximately 6 children in an R-8 zone for Virginia L. Beberness, Lot
14, Block 3, of the Tremont Subdivision. So at this time I will open the Public
Hearing and do we have staff or have they all gone home?
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, this is for a property located in the Tremont Place
Subdivision and the request for the day care, I believe she would like to have up
to 6 children, but the Conditional Use Permit allows from 6 to 12 children and
right behind the house here is Nine Mile Creek. The developer of the subdivision
did put a sidewalk in on the northern boundary of Nine Mile Creek. There is a
church here. It's mostly just the front portion of the property next to Pine that's
being developed. This is pretty open back here. Vacant land. And then the
home is surrounded by other lots within the Tremont Place Subdivision. We
have our staff comments on this and the Planning and Zoning Commission's
recommendation. It has been brought to my attention that there has been a 6
foot fence installed behind the chain link fence. There was a condition of the
subdivision that they not exceed the four foot height requirement along Nine Mile
Creek in accordance with our landscape ordinance, but there is now a solid 6
foot wooden fence. I would like the applicant to speak on whether that received
a building permit or how that was put up and also the fact that this was -- the
fence requirement is on the recorded- plat and I guess if the Planning -- or of the
Council -- City Council elects to approve the Conditional Use Permit as is, that
there will be some requirement to -- if not reduce that to four feet -- I know it
becomes a safety problem, then, for the children, then -- if nobody's out there
watching them, anyway, that at least the fence be cut down to four feet and a
see-through fence, perhaps some lattice type construction be added to the fence
for the other two feet, but we will have that problem throughout this whole
subdivision if we don't take care of it now, so other than that, I'd recommend
approval, but that's the only issue that I could see with that.
Corrie: Okay. Any questions from staff? Okay. Is the applicant here then?
Beberness: My name is Virginia Beberness, 918 West Broadway Avenue. The
house has been constructed and the fence is all the way around, all the
paperwork is done to be constructed, so I just wanted to clarify that. I'm not sure
I understand about the fence. The fence is pretty high up. It's wood and I
understood from the beginning #hat it needed to be constructed in order to be
able to even apply for the day care, obviously, for the safety of the children. So
Meridian City Council Meetin~ •
December 18, 2001
Page 58
I'm not understanding what she means about the fence, what I need to change
about it.
Corrie: You want to answer that or I can.
Stiles: We have a landscape ordinance that deals with construction of these
pathways and these creeks and for the safety and visibility back there, our
requirement is placed in the conditions of the plat and in this case it is also
shown on your recorded plat that no fence can exceed four feet in height on that
back boundary.
Beberness: Okay. So in the back where it backs, up to the creek, I need to
reduce it to four feet and then the rest of it see through or it has to go down to
four feet?
Stiles: Well, that's up to Council of what they want to do with that, but the main
issue is -- I know you want to have your children safe in your backyard and four
feet would probably allow somebody to jump over the fence pretty quickly and,
you know, who knows, but we don't want to see just a solid wall of fences back
there that leads to the rest of it to be just a no man's land that nobody ever looks
at, it becomes a crime area. If people don't tend to see the weeds that growing
back there, then they don't complain or they don't do anything about it and they
just become high for other people, those types of things. That's the reason for
the four foot restriction, so -
Beberness: Okay. So then it would be okay to make it four feet with the wood
and then something see through?
Stiles: Well, I'm just putting that out as an option. If Council thinks that's a good
compromise or -- you know, we don't want to have to deal with this every place
down the road, that they all want to put up a six foot fence and then we have lost
what our intent was to begin with.
Beberness: Right. The only issue I would have is the homeowners. They seem
to have an issue about everything we do there. A bush. A tree. So I don't knew
how that's going to go. The reason I put up that fence is because I understood
that that's what I needed to do, having invested $3,000 on that fence. So now
I'm told different. Which, obviously --and this is what I do, I take care of children.
I have been doing it for three years in San Diego. I miss them. I want to
continue. I'm willing to do whatever I need to do, but I'd like to keep the height,
because, obviously, I don't need children climbing over fences and, you know,
not that they are out there by themselves, but I mean I'm not perfect either, I can
turn my head and a child could jump the fence in a heartbeat, so --
Corrie: Are you the only one that has a six foot fence there?
Meridian City Council Meetin~ •
Dec~nber 18, 2001
Page 59
Beberness: Yes. Nobody seems to have any grass or fences or anything
around their houses right now.
Corrie: I would think they would be more apt to -- I guess if you have a fence and
nobody else has one, but --
Beberness: I think -- yeah. I think they have issues with how much the fence
cost, because a lot of the neighbors have approached me to found out who did
the fencing when they find out the price of it they are like, oh, no. So I would be
more concerned about what homeowners are going to say as far as their image
of the neighborhood.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: Now it says in here that you're going to watch up to six kids, in
addition to your own. How many kids do you have?
Beberness: I have three children of my own.
De Weerd: Okay. Not seven?
Beberness: Right. No, not seven.
De Weerd: Okay. So if we were to ask that you put the see through -- two feet
of the see through, you would be able to do that?
Beberness: Yes. Before I would open up for children, obviously, I have to have
that for when my licensing comes through for a walk through, they want to see
what I'm actually going to be using. So that would have to be prior, just -- in
order to meet with homeowners, I would think, if they would be okay. Maybe the
wood fence that has the crisscrossing you can still see through, you know,
through the holes that are, you know, so big, if that would be okay, just to keep
the wood image, the look.
Corrie: Any other --
Bird: I have nothing.
Corrie: Okay. Thank you.
Beberness: I have one more question. I don't know if this is even important, but
on the paperwork I received, again, it says Block 3 and it's actually Block 2. I just
wanted to make sure that that's right.
Meridian City Council MeeQin~ •
December 1 S, 2001
Page 60
Corrie: That does make a difference for our attorney.
Beberness: And that's it.
Corrie: He'll be getting somebody else's permit.
Beberness: Yeah. I don't think they want me to do day care in their home.
Bird: Surprise them.
Beberness: Thank you.
Corrie: Thank you. Is there anyone here who would like to issue testimony in
favor? Neutral? Opposed? All right.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I move we close the Public Hearing.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion made and second to close the Public Hearing. Any further
discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor say aye. All ayes. Closed.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Corrie: Council, discussion?
De Weerd: I have none.
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Okay. I'll entertain a motion for the request for a Conditional Use Permit.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Ms. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I move we approve the request for a Conditional Use Permit for a
Group Day Care Home with approximately -- well, in an R-8 zone for Virginia
Beberness and on Lot 14, Block 2, of Tremont Subdivision, to also include the
stipulation that the fence on the back properly line be brought down to four feet
and to allow it to maintain a six foot height, but with see through material.
Meridian Cily council Meetin~ •
December 18, 2001
Page 61
McCandless: Second.
Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded to approve the Conditional Use
Permit with the stipulation of the fence. Any further discussion?
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: That would include staff comments, too.
Corrie: Okay. Any further discussion?
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Roll call, vote, please.
Role Call: Bird, aye; de Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Anderson, absent.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Corrie: Boy, I'll tell you, we have got a tough attorney.
Bird: That's what we pay him all them big bucks for.
Item 17. Public Hearing: CUP 01-034 Request for a Conditional Use
Permit for an alternative school for Middle School and High School
age students in an R-4 zone for Joint School District No. 2 by
Joint School District No. 2 - 930 West Pine Street:
Corrie: Item 17 has been pulled off the agenda by the request of the School
District.
Item 18. Public Hearing: AZ 01-017 Request for annexation and zoning of
.193 acres from RUT to R-4 zones for Packard Acres No. 1 by
Packard Estates Developers, LLC -east of North Wingate Lane
and south of East Ustick Road:
Corrie: So we will go to Item 18, which is a Public Hearing, request for
annexation and zoning of .193 acres from RUT to R-4 zone for Packard
Subdivision No. 1 by Packard Estates Developers, east of North Wingate and
south of East Ustick Road. At this time I will open the Public Hearing and staff
comments.
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, this is to correct a problem with the recorded
Final Plat for this property. The initial annexation included a certain area and
Meridian Planning and Zoning Coil~rission N~eting •
November 15, 2001
Page 3
Borup:We have had some -- Commissioners, some discussion perhaps
adjusting the agenda a little bit this evening. We have a motion to -- discuss a motion to
that effect or should I go ahead and --
Norton: Why don't you go ahead.
Borup: Okay. Maybe we ought to clarify. We are assuming the majority of
the people here are on the school district; is that correct? Okay. We thought it might be
appropriate to move that up on the agenda, so you don't have to wait all night. Is that
okay? So what we'd like to handle is the next item, it would be Item No. 4 with -- we'd
like to do the conditional use for the Group Day Care first. Is Virginia Beberness here?
Okay. So we'll handle that next and then after that go to Item No. 9, then we'll move up
to Item No. 5.
Centers: 6 is first, is it not?
Borup: Yes. Item No. 6 would be first and then we'll go to Item 5. And then the rest of it
will proceed as, in the order that it is. So we'd like to begin with opening --
Nary: Need a motion to amend the agenda.
Borup: Okay.
Nary: I would so move to amend the agenda to reflect that Item 6 be moved as the first
item to be heard. Item 9 will be made the second item to be heard. And then the agenda
to follow after that in the published sequence, Items 4, 5 and 7 and so on.
Centers: Second.
Nary: All in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 6. Public Hearing: CUP 01-033 Request for a Conditional Use
Permit for a Group Day Care with approximately six children in
an R-8 zone for Virginia L. Beberness by Virginia L. Beberness -
Lot 14, Block 3 of Tremont Subdivision.
Borup: Okay. We'd like to open the Public Hearing on CUP 01-033, request for
Conditional Use Permit for a Group Day Care with approximately 6 children in an R-8
zone for Virginia L. Beberness. Did I pronounce that right? Begin with the staff report.
Hawkins-Clark: Thank you, Chairman Borup. You should have received the staff
comments dated October 5, 2001, from Bruce Freckleton and David McKinnon. We just
ask that the conditions site specific in there be included in your motion. The screen
shows the subject property. The staff report does not discuss the surrounding uses, our
apologies for that, but, as you can see, it is located in the Tremont Place Subdivision off
Meridian Planning and Zoning C Fission Meeting
November 15, 2001
Page 4
of West Broadway Avenue there on the north side, West Broadway, that this area here
is the Nine Mile Creek easement, 100 feet wide, that her property backs up to. This is
an elevation of the house as it currently is, which your packet should have the
floor plan. The only thing I would point in addition to our comments, the building official
did reference that the second floor uses in these zones in terms of the Uniform Building
Code would require several changes and maybe Mrs. Beberness could address that. I
don't think that she's proposing second floor uses for the day care, but she can confirm
that. The application that she submitted just showed first floor uses for the day care. I
think the rest of our conditions are there. The applicant will need to meet all of the
licensing requirements of the state of Idaho prior to beginning operation and submit a
copy of that state license to the clerk's office. That's item number 6 of our conditions. I
think that's all I have on that one.
Borup: Any questions from the Commissioners? Would the applicant like to come
forward? Anything else you'd like to add? Okay. We may have some questions, too. I
guess first see if you have had a chance to read the staff report and if you had any
questions or disagreements with anything they said there.
Beberness: No.
Borup: You need to start with your name and address, please.
Beberness: My name is Virginia Beberness. 918 W. Broadway, Meridian, Idaho. 83642.
In the Tremont Subdivision.
Borup: Okay.
Beberness: The only course and concern I have is from the application I actually
submitted to what you guys have printed here in front. It says 6 children in an R-8 zone.
I had put in my application 6 children, not including my own, which I guess my children
in this state would be included, so that would be 9 children and they did not put that in
here. I did go in yesterday and talk to somebody about that, but they just said to bring it
up.
Borup: Okay. The -- then our -- the front page in ours says 6 to 12.
Beberness: Correct.
Borup: Brad, was that in there? So that would cover that for her own children?
Hawkins-Clark: Correct. 6 to 12 would be inclusive of her own. Right.
Borup: Right.
Beberness: Okay. That's --
Borup: Okay. Then you were not planning on anything on the upper floor?
Meridian Planning and Zoning Col'I~Rfission Meeting
November 15, 2001
Page 5
Beberness: No. No. Absolutely not.
Borup: Okay. Any other questions from the Commissioners?
Centers: I have one question. When did you make application?
Beberness: For the Planning and Zoning?
Centers: Yes. For this.
Beberness: Oh.
Centers: Because it says home to be built.
Beberness: Oh. Yes. I think I started this when I was still living in California and this was
back in April that I started to work on it.
Centers: And your application with the city was when?
Beberness: It must have been about May.
Centers: Okay.
Beberness: But it kept coming back and forth because of -- the building kept changing
from spots.
Centers: Okay.
Borup: Commissioner Norton.
Norton: Yes. I just have a few questions. That did answer my one question. I wanted to
know how many children you owned yourself. So you have 3 children?
Beberness: Yes. I have 3 boys.
Norton: How many children do you own.Then your hours of operation are what?
Beberness: They are still open. I don't know what the laws are here in Idaho with child
care. I have always been 24 hours as needed, not exceeding more than 12 hours per
child at a time. But I have been used to working with military children, so I was thinking
more along the lines of about 5:30 in the morning until like 7:00 at night.
Norton: That's very generous. There is some people that would like have that. You state
you were licensed in California and have run a day care for 3 years and there is a
structured environment?
Meridian Planning and Zoning CoiSlllGssion N~eRing
November 15, 2001
Page 6
Beberness: Yes, I do.
Norton: Okay. Sounds good to me. Thanks.
Borup: Any other questions? Thank you, ma'am. Do we have anyone here to testify on
this application? Seeing none, thank you. Commissioners?
Norton: Mr. Chairman.
Borup: Commissioner Norton.
Norton: Move to close the Public Hearing.
Centers: I would second that.
Borup: Motion and second to close Public Hearing. All in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Norton: Mr. Chairman?
Borup: Commissioner Norton.
Norton: I would like to move to approve CUP Q1 --
Centers: Could I comment first, Commissioner Norton?
Norfipn: Sure.
Centers: I'm going to be right there with a second. What I was looking for was the
property owners and notification of and there was -- certainly all the notifications were
given. I didn't see any opposition. No one was here to oppose the day care, so I don't
see why we wouldn't go forward.
Norton: There is a huge sign on her front door saying about the publjc notice. So
everybody is aware. She has a full six foot ceder fence jn the backyard. She's ready to
go on day care. She's done all the rules, she's done all the --
Centers: Excuse me. Go right ahead.
Norton: I'd like to recommend approval of CUP 01-033, request for a Conditional Use
Permit for a Group Day Care with, a Group Day Care facility for 6 to 12 children in an R-
8zone for Virginia Beberness, Lot 14, Block 3 of Tremont Subdivision.
Centers: I would second that.
Borup: Motion and second. Any other discussion? All in favor?