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HomeMy WebLinkAboutFebruary 6, 2003 Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting February 6, 2003 Page 42 of 106 Borup: Motion and second, Any discussion? All in favor? Anyopposed? Thank you, MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES Borup: Okay, Commissioners, would we like to go ahead with the next hearing or would you like a break at this time? Any comment on that? Would you like a short break right now? . Zaremba: Sure. Centers: Second. Borup: Okay. We will have a short break at this time. (Recess) Item 11. Item 12. Public Hearing: AZ 02.Q31 Request for annexation and zoning of 39.05 acres from RUT to R-8 zones for proposed Castle brook Subdivision No. 2 by Crestline Development, LLC - 4000 West Pine Avenue, east of North Black Cat Road and south of West Cherry Lane: Public Hearing: PP 02.Q32 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 148 building lots and 9 other lots on 39.05 acres in a proposed R-8 zone for proposed Castlebrook Subdivision No.2 by Crestline Development, LLC - 4000 West Pine Avenue, east of North Black Cat Road and south of West Cherry Lane: Borup: Okay. We'd like to reconvene our Public Hearings this evening. Start with Item Numbers 11 and 12, Public Hearing AZ 02-031, request for annexation and zoning of 39.05 acres from RUT to R-8 zones for the proposed Castlebrook Subdivision No.2 by Crestline Development. It's on 4000 West Pine Avenue. Public Hearing PP 02-032, request for Preliminary Plat approval of 148 building lots and nine other lots on the same project. This is a projectwe do not have the staff comments on. I understand that you have preliminary draft comments, so we are not sure how much we are going to be able to -- I guess, Mr. Siddoway, we will leave it to you to -- whatever extent you can do on the staff report. Siddoway: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I can give you a brief overview. Castlebrook Subdivision is just over 39 acres. They are requesting annexation to go from RUT to R- 8 zoning in the city. You recently saw Castlebrook No.1 Subdivision adjacent to it. This would be a continuation of t hat previous development. You can see the aerial photo. It's currently undeveloped agricultural land. This is a rendering of the proposed plat that has been submitted to our office and should be in your packets. It does include 148 building lots and nine other lots. T his is their Landscape Plan, the larger open space feature in the center, and Ten Mile Creek coursing along the north property. The only staff - report you received at this time is dated February 6th, which, basically, requests t hat it be tabled. I f there a re members of the public here who a re here to Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission MeetIng February 6. 2003 Page 43 of 106 testify, we may want to open the Public Hearing and continue it, as opposed to table it. I also believe the applicant would like to get in some input from the Commission, if they have reviewed the application and have any specific comments themselves. The major issues on this are Public Works issues, so I'm going to turn some time over to Bruce to talk about those. Freckleton: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, we do have some fairly large hurdles to get over with respect to this project. The City of Meridian has apgroved a contract with JUB Engineers -- we approved that contract on January 28. Their responsibility is to conduct a study and do design for the Black Cat Sewer Trunk. That's the sewer trunk that's going to be able to take this whole area in. The project is just getting kicked off. There is a lot of - there is a lot of fact finding that needs to be done, a lot of preliminary design that needs to be done. There are a lot of elevations that are unknown at this point in time. Here is -- the current proposal, I believe, from this applicant is to try and utilize the existing lift station that's part of the - was part of the English Gardens Subdivision, now Coral Creek, Blackstone. That lift station pumps to a line that gravity flows north to what is another lift station in Ashford Greens Subdivision. The City of Meridian in our planning, we are planning for another regional lift station that will be south of Cherry Lane -- somewhere south of Cherry Lane in this area. Land has not been targeted we don't know where that's going to be or the size of it, that sort of thing. A more appropriate location for this subdivision to sewer would be to that regional lift station. Borup: Bruce, is that that regional station that would pump into the new Black Cat or into the existing? Freckleton: It would pump to a new line in Black Cat. Borup: Okay. Freckleton: Correct. Borup: The new Black Cat Trunk Line. Freckleton: Correct. Borup: Okay. Freckleton: We did some preliminary water modeling on the area and we have determined that this development will require a second water main feed. That feed is going to have to come in from the east, it's going to have to be a 12 inch line extended allthe way in from Ten Mile Road down to Pine Street, extended all the way out to Ten Mile Road. Easements would need to be secured. At the same time that easements need to be - are secured for the water main, we would also need to have easements secured for the sewer trunk line extension as well. That pretty much covers the big issues. We have got a lot of unknowns right now that Public Works and the applicant need to work through and that is the reason that we have requested the continuance. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting February 6, 2003 Page 44 of 106 Zaremba: Refresh my memory, if you would. W hen we recommended approval of Castle brook Subdivision One, they were providing some kind of a temporary sewer arrangement, I think, and the sense was that was temporary and they were as much as that arrangement could handle. In other words, this couldn't be added to that. Freckleton: The solution for Castlebrook One was to sewer to the existing lift station in the Blackstone, Coral Creek Subdivision. Zaremba: And was that a temporary solution until this other major lift station is built? That was my recollection. It was not a permanent solution. Freckleton: It is temporary. The lift station that is in the Coral Creek, Blackstone area is a temporary lift station. Zaremba: Oh. Okay. Freckleton: It is not a permanent station so, the regional station is what JUB is going to be working on, and that will be a permanent station. Zaremba: And an additional subdivision Number 2 would overwhelm that capacity, I take it? Freckleton: That's what we need to -- we need to work on those details. Are there any other questions? Borup: Okay. Are there any other staff comments? Does the applicant have anything they'd like to add? Amar: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Commissioners. My name is Kevin Amar, representing Crestline Development. My address is 114 East Idaho, Suite 230. I thank you for hearing this application tonight. I know you don't have a staff report and that puts you at a little bit of a disadvantage. We will try to go over some of these issues that we do have. Also the neighbors are here and we have been having discussions with them, so I appreciate the opportunity to be heard also. We have been trying to work with them. This project is a continuance of -- and I'm going to refer to this vicinity map -- a continuance of Castlebrook NO.1. Castlebrook No. 1 was approved the fall of last year. It is off of Black Cat Road. This will be a continuance of Castlebrook No.1 or subdivision number one, done in phases. It will be done in accordance with the fire department in order to provide secondary access at all times. EI Gato or Pine, whatever you may want to call it, which is in this location, will be extended along with the subdivision, That road will be built out as per ACHD's requirements of half plus 12 feet of additional road for a two way travel lane along the entire southern boundary when it is entirely built out. This Castlebrook No. 1 was provided sewer through an existing temporary lift station in Coral Creek. That did have capacity for Castlebrook NO.1. We feel that it also has capacity for Castlebrook No.2, something that we are able to or will work out with the City Engineering Department to assure that they do have capacity for that. I understand that is an issue and, obviously, something we need to address or we Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting February 6, 2003 Page 45 of 106 don't have a project, whether you give us approval or not. If we don't have sewer, we can't build it and we understand that. Borup: Have there been any calculations done at this time? Amar: There have been -- Gene Smith is our engineer. He has done calculations. It's my understanding he has gotten those back to Brad, although I don't know that for sure, and they need to review those calculations. In conversations with Brad and Bruce, they are extremely busy and anticipate meeting with them hopefully next week to discuss that. Centers: How many lots in the Castlebrook One? Amar: There are 120 lots in Castlebrook No.1. Centers: So you're going to double it. Amar: There are 104 -- there are 150 lots in Castle brook No.2. Centers: Okay. More than double. Amar: Yes. Castlebrook two does have a hundred -- initially there was 148 lots -- could I get you top ut up the Landscape Plan? With this subdivision we a re requesting a couple of variances with respect to block length. When we initially proposed this subdivision, these two blocks are below the 500-foot minimum due to the design of the subdivision. We are requesting a variance of that. These blocks are above the 1,000 square foot minimum. We discussed it with staff and I think they were willing to support those variances. One other change that we did make at the request of staff was to connect this cul-d-sac that you see here and this cul-d-sac, creating a through street. Let me show the vicinity map. Oh, this map. Yeah. As you can see here. In doing so, there was an addition of two lots. Staff suggested that we add those two lots and make reference to that here, if that is something that you wish to approve, that you note also that there were two additional lots added to the project. The variances that we are requesting have to do with -- there was a question by one of the neighbors is we requesting setback Variances. We are not requesting building variances, as much as lot -- or block length variances, Those block lengths are supported by staff. The entrance -- the main entrance into the subdivision, we have one entrance that goes directly into the park, it's a two acre park space, that entrance -- at one time we explored the option of moving and having two separate entrances. After discussions with staff, it was determined that one entrance would be a better point for entering, it provides better access directly to the back of the subdivision without houses fronting along and entering an entrance road and they support that also. With respect to the subdivision itself, we have on the -- I'm going to refer to this vicinity map that Susan Wildwood is holding. I like to make her hold it. I can't boss her around too often. Directly to the north of our project is a park, Tulley Park, owned and operated by Western Ada Park -- I don't know exactly what they call themselves. Recreation district. Thank you. As part of that and as part of the city's trail plan, there is a pathway down the north side of that Ten Mile Creek. We propose -- Susan, could you flip it over? Actually, I want to look at this one. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting February 6, 2003 Page 46 of 106 We propose to put also a pathway -- a private pathway for the subdivision to be owned and maintained by the homeowners association on the south side of Ten Mile Creek also. That would connect Castlebrook No. 1 to this and we are also proposing a footbridge across -- it's actually a culvert -- across the Ten Mile Creek. We have been in conversations with Bill Henson at Nampa-Meridian Irrigation District. He is generally in agreement and he wants to see plans as far as landscaping and our plans for the pathway. Right now, we propose a five-foot wide paved pathway and he is generally in agreement with that. It will require a License Agreement, which we are more than happy to do. One thing that that will give this subdivision -- the easement, if you will, essentially, an owned lot by the Irrigation District, will not need to be maintained by that Irrigation District, it won't be a blight, as many of the pathways are. I brought pictures of the existing pathway on the north side of the canal. The north side of the canal, if we look here, as you can see, this is at the point where Coral Creek, Castlebrook No.1, Castlebrook No.2, and Parkside Creek meet. As you can see, it's a narrow spot, but there is no landscaping on either side of that. The weeds grow up -- I understand that's a pathway that is being developed as it goes, so maybe in the future that will be developed and it will be landscaped. What we want to do is provide a pathway immediately that looks nice and will be pleasing, as well as easily maintained for better visual effect for some of the neighbors. Along this pathway, also and along all the common areas we are proposing to put a four-foot high vinyl fence, four-foot maximum height in order to not create a visual barrier, so that is a safety corridor and can be seen by the neighbors. We are also proposing to put a four-foot high vinylfence on -- around this park. It will be a sandstone vinyl. Along the Pine or EI Gato we propose -- obviously, the landscaping will be done in accordance with the City of Meridian's Landscape Plan. It will be a six-foot high sandstone vinyl fence. We do all this -- the less maintenance that the homeowners association has to do and stain that fence every year, the easier and the better look it gets in the long run and in the short term. Zaremba: The fence around the common area, the park area that you have, is that sight obscuring or non-sight obscuring? Amar: It's four-foot height - four-foot high maximum height sight obscuring. You can still see over the top of it, but it allows people that have dogs in the backward without them barking at you every time you go by, hopefully. It will provide a better effect. Zaremba: Is that okay? Siddoway: The - are you asking about the four-foot vinyl? Zaremba: I know the four-foot is appropriate, but sight obscuring or non-sight obscuring? Siddoway: Four-foot is the maximum for sight obscuring so four-foot is fine for sight obscuring, yes. Zaremba: Okay. Thank you both. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting February 6, 2003 Page 47 of 106 Amar: The CC&Rs we have a packet -- did you give them a packet? In your packet we have in here a -- requested as conditions of approval the highlights of the CC&Rs that we will be - that we will be using in this subdivision. All of our houses are required to have landscaping. T hat I andscaping would be front yard sod, underground sprinkler system, and front yard fencing, as to block the view into the backyard. It will also have a number of trees and shrubs that are required. Around those trees and shrubs we will also have a tree ring, so that maintains that quality look throughout the time. There will also be a front yard light that will be installed on each house. This is not in any way meant to replace the streetlights, the streetlights will also be used, and it just gives a little more character to the subdivision. You can see some of those yard lights in -- this is a picture of -- I don't know if you can see it -- but there is a yard light here. Those will be on a photocell, so at night, they do turn on and we hire a management company to maintain those CC&Rs and enforce those CC&Rs. He drives through at night and -- there is one in my own subdivision and my lights have been burnt out and he calls me the next morning and says your light's burnt out, replace it. Then, they send these nasty letters if you don't. We do provide also a management company - or hire a management company to enforce those CC&Rs. There still is a homeowners association, but that gets away from the neighbors having to tell on their neighbors, so to speak. All the roofing material will be a 25-year black architectural composition shingle, the upgraded shingle. The roof pitch will be a minimum of 6/12 pitch. The minimum house size is as in the R-8 zone, where the majority of the subdivision will a minimum of 1,300 - I think it's 1,301 square feet. I'm not sure why it's one, but we will make sure that extra on gets in. 1,301 square feet. Those lots that border the Ten Mile Creek, we have increased those sizes as to provide the ability to put a larger house. Also if people did want to put three-car garages, it's very easy to do that. Those minimum lot sizes -- or house sizes, rather, will be 1,600 square feet, as to provide a better buffer f or those neighbors t hat back up to that. T he neighbors -- the nearest neighbor to this from Parkside Creek will be approximately 300 feet away, when you take into account the easement and the existing pathway from the Fuller Park. There is a significant visual barrier or visual buffer, I should say, between one neighbor and the other and it creates a nice look. I have taken pictures out at t he site itself a nd the parkway or the pathway. These pictures were taken from Fuller Park. There is a pond in Fuller Park, looking back at those houses. This is actually standing from on top of the canal bank, as close to the canal that -- or the drain as I could get looking back at those houses. You can see there is quite a distance back to those houses before you even get to the far edge or the north edge of that canal and there is another approximately 75 feet before you get to the nearest backyard of the house. There is a significant buffer zone there. This is actually the site now, as it exists for reference, if you had any questions. I will go over quickly the requested -- and I know you don't have a staff - the requested conditions, site-specific conditions of approval, try to address those and give you an idea of what we are agreeing to. We have no problems with the staff report. We understand there are issues with sewer. We understand there are issues with water. We are confident that we can work these out with the engineering department. As I said, if we don't, we don't have a project, so -- the other things are we will be providing an under ground pressurized irrigation system. We have already spoken with Nampa- Meridian Irrigation District. We may actually be utilizing an existing system that they have, upgrading that system. They want to maximize the number of houses per system, so they have to maintain one system, rather than others -- rather than many. Meridian PlannIng and Zoning Commission Meeting February 6, 2003 Page 48 of 106 We will have a Fencing Plan on that plat that is in accordance with the City of Meridian's policies. I will skip through these. A lot of them are fairly standard. Again, as I say, we are requesting the Variances for block length requirements only. We will be revising the Preliminary Plat with any changes that are necessary although I think what we have in front of us tonight has been revised. We have to pick the FEMA line. We can do that and that FEMA line does not - if it affects any of the lots, we can still obtain -- there is not a f100dway -- there may be a flood plane in some of the lots. I believe it is down in this a rea. I twas just 0 n the back of them. T hose would be required to have flood insurance by any lender so that canal is fairly deep. If it's flooding there, I think everybody is in trouble, not just the people that are living along that Ten Mile Creek. I think that is all that I have. We did have a neighborhood meeting on January 29th and I know that's something that's required by the City of Meridian, but we did want to try to resolve some of the concerns. Some of the changes that we have before us tonight came out of that neighborhood meeting. They had requested larger houses be put on that, requested other things also, but we did make some of these changes. We are assuring them as long as we can get approval with Nampa-Meridian Irrigation District, that that bank will be maintained by the homeowners association, so it's visually pleasing. We increased the housing sizes in the portion of the project, also to make it more visually pleasing, and the addition of vinyl fence, rather than some other style of fencing. With that I would stand for any questions. Borup: Questions from the Commissioners? Okay. I want to say we appreciate you having the neighborhood meeting. We find it makes a big difference on questions that people have and even though it isn't required, the new ordinance is going to highly recommend it. In same cases if we felt it was necessary and it wasn't held, we would probably be continuing the hearing without even holding it. Amar: We had the neighborhood meeting in this case and noticed all those neighbors within a 300-foot radius and we had six people that showed up so I think it did help. We were able to answer some questions. Some of those same people are here tonight so - Borup: Appreciate you doing that. Rohm: I just had one question. On this common area, the block four-- Amar: Yes. Okay. Rohm: That area. Where will you have like parking, so that people can actually use that area? It seems like the adjacent lots to it, will be very user friendly to them, but the balance of the subdivision, it doesn't seem like there is access to it that well. Amar: We have tried to provide -- the common area we -- first of all, we centered it in the subdivision, but we have also tried to provide a number of accesses into it also. There is a pathway here and a pathway here, so people can actually walk to that common area. It's been done in other subdivisions throughout the City of Meridian, I have seen people use them I have actually used many of them myself. We feel that this is located in such a way -- yes, we do have houses backing up to it, but it's located in Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting February 6. 2003 Page 49 of 106 such a position that people will be able to access it easily and more walking than driving that's located less than a quarter of a mile from any house in that subdivision. That's what we try to do with our common areas is locate them in a position where people don't have to walk more than a quarter of a mile to it to enjoy it. Zaremba: Do you envision any amenities in there or is it just all grass? Amar: I'm sorry. Yes. It will be grass. What we find is -- and especially with this size. This size of common area will open up to a variety of uses. When I grew up everybody liked to play baseball and now it seems like everybody lies to play soccer. In any event, they can go both of those on this. We also have provided in another subdivision and we anticipate in this subdivision a recreation area for children to slide and swing and play tag or whatever they may play. I enjoy playing it. My kid is old enough to play tag and he always wins. He can run faster than I can. Centers: Is that also your subdivision drain area? Amar: It will be utilized also as drainage. Centers: And it's a lower elevation? Amar: Yes. Centers: Have you done -- have you done your water table testing? Amar: We have and at this location the water table is approximately six feet. Below that, the depression on that will be approximately a foot deep, so we still will be five feet above that water table and - Centers: Is that why you put that park there, because it's a central location for the drain? Amar: Well, luckily, on this one it was a central location for the drain, but we -- like on Castlebrook No. 1 -- Castlebrook No.1 is not in the low area. The park for Castlebrook No. 1 is in this location, not at the lower area. We try to put those parks in the center of the subdivision. In this case we can use it for drainage. Centers: I guess I have to be honest with you. I'm reluctant to comment in any way until I see the staff report. Amar: That's fine. One desire for bringing it before you tonight is we understand there are engineering issues and we think we can resolve those. We understand we are going to be continued until a later meeting. We also hope we could get some comment from Planning and Zoning, so if there is questions, we can address those prior to the next meeting also. Borup: So you'd like to know the concern that this Commission may have? Amar: Yes, sir. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting February 6, 2003 Page 50 of 106 Borup: And I would think if we have some serious concerns, we should be able to express those, even without staff comments. Amar: I'm going to speak to staff and they can nod yes or no. I think generally staff supports this project and the layout. It definitely meets the Comprehensive Plan. Centers: Oh, I'm aware of that. One is approved just to the west of it you know, so -- Amar: Yes. Zaremba: Well, the overall concept seems to be a good one just the trouble is always in the details. Amar: Yes. Zaremba: That's what we depend on staff for. Amar: I understand. Borup: I think one of the questions -- Zaremba: But for a sense of it, the overall concept -- Borup: One of the questions we may have is how much time do you think you need to work out some of those details, specifically the sewer and the water? Amar: A lot of that depends on when we meet with Brad or Bruce. We feel like we have a lot of the answers now. We would need to confirm those, give that information to engineering department, so they can confirm our numbers, butwe feel like within two weeks we could probably do that. Borup: Meet with them within two weeks? Amar: Yes. Borup: Okay. Zaremba: I had one question about the main road, assuming that it's going to connect with Pine on the east end - no, not your subdivision road, but the major east-west road. Amar: Yes. Zaremba: Wouldn't it make more sense to name that Pine? Amar: You'd think. I don't know what we will call it. When we did Castlebrook No.1 across the street EI Gato is the public road and so we have been told we are going to Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting February 6, 2003 Page 51 of 106 call it EI Gato. At some point there is going to be a transition from Pine to EI Gato. If you want me to call it David Zaremba Street, I will be happy to call it that. Zaremba: I'd rather not. Amar: But yes. we will call it what COMPASS and the City of Meridian would ask us to call it. At this time we have been directed to name it EI Gato. Borup: By the Street Name Committee or -- they are going to have to decide that, eventually, aren't they? Amar: And fire. I know we spoke initially with the Fire Department and they weren't too -- they said name it EI Gato for now. When we get to Final Plat stage, we will determine the final name. Borup: Okay. Thank you. Okay. We would like to have any other -- did you have some more staff -- or more applicant comments that's pertinent? Okay. Nichols: Mr. Chairman and Commissioners, thank you. Shawn Nichols, Land Consultants, 52 North 2nd Street in Eagle. I will be brief. I just wanted to talk about the Comprehensive Plan real fast. Again, you're going to get that in your staff report some day, the staffs analysis, but just to briefly -- to briefly summarize, we do meet the intent of the Comprehensive Plan. As you know, that was approved, finally, in 2002 and there is a - the area where we are located is right here, which is medium density residential future land use designation. The zoning we are asking for is R-8, which is also medium density, which allows for three to eight dwelling units per acre. We are more on the lower side of that with 3.8 dwelling units per acre, with the addition of those two lots from that redesign that Kevin spoke of. We do meet the policy and goals of the plan, specifically, the land use, housing, recreation open space, goals and policies of the Comprehensive Plan as it is currently written. We are compatible with the surrounding reSidential uses, specifically, the Castlebrook No.1, which is approved. That's all I have. Borup: Okay. Thank you. Okay. We would like to have public testimony, realizing this is going to be continued, but we'd like to give anyone opportunity to testify here that may not have the time to do that. Oh, did you still have comments, Susan? Okay. Sorry. Wildwood: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. For the record, my name is Susan Wildwood, I'm an attorney, and I'm here on behalf of the applicant. Actually, I put together the packets that you have before you and I -- actually, the - very, very briefly, you were provided a lot count comparison and that is the coloration that exists on this map. One of the reasons that we do this is so that you have an opportunity to see the lot distribution across the project. Sometimes it's hard look up here and see exactly where the lots are. This gives you a graphic idea of the lot distribution. It isn't all in one chunk. That key exists on that lot count. The photographs that you have in there, this is Wilkins Ranch, a similar entryway that we would be proposing, utilizing this house, this house, and house are all in excess of 1,600 feet -- or, actually, in Oakhurst and Autumn Faire, those are minimum floor requirements and we - those particularly subdivisions are actually Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting February 6. 2003 Page 52 of 106 1,400 square feet. That gives you an idea even with the 1,400 square foot minimums you will find houses on lot sizes similar to what we actually have in here. I just wanted to go over that and see if you had any questions, I would be happy to stand for any questions, but I didn't have anything else other than that. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Borup: Questions? Centers: I appreciate the color code. I remember that from the past. Wildwood: Thank you, sir, Borup: Okay. Thank you. Okay, sir. Glines: My name is Mark Glines and I'm a resident of Parkside Creek. Do I have access to a -- we have a couple of concerns. First off, I live right about here and they have addressed one of the concerns about maintaining this side of the creek there. As Western Ada Recreation District is doing some improvements over here, we have a problem whether we are going to be able to get the creek maintained. Nampa-Meridian does not maintain it for sight, it maintains it just for water flow, and with the improvements that have been done by Western Ada at Fuller Park, and it has left the site situation a mess. The development that was done here by Corey Barton and this one here has left this entire creek area here a horrible eye sore. This was supposed to have been at least put under the maintenance of the City Parks Department and nothing has been done about it. I'm concerned that if -- once this is all closed up here, that this ditch part here will not be able to be maintained properly, because there is half on this side that's too close to the ridge of the ditch, literally three feet from the top of it, and done without full compliance with Nampa-Meridian Irrigation. Then, there is no access through here. In fact, we have a rather stiff corner here to be able to get any kind of access through. I'm concerned, one, about that, that we will be able to maintain the site across here. A second concern I have is that - you know, even this area here is our drainage dump. We have standing water in there almost all year long and that's not very deeply down in there. This area here, when the property owner was farming it for hay, if he flooded it too much, was a horrible mosquito nest environment, because it didn't drain well, and even though they say they have done the test and I -- you know, you do the test once and not find necessarily what the long-term reality is. I'm concerned that when they put the park in here, if that is where they are going to be draining to, that it may become more of a mosquito issue like we are having up here. The third concern I have is the fact that over here -- this is R-4, this is R-3, this is R-8, and this is the eye sore of the neighborhood. We would like to see this R-4, so that we can lower the density have a little bit higher level of homes there, without the kind of jam it in. Park all your motor homes and park all your trailers type of an issue that has made this the eye -- made the -- this is not wanting to go on -- made the Coral Creek and the Blackstone the problem that it is. Those are the issues I'm concerned about. This whole area looking south is just a little bit below the Parkside Creek area, so it is pretty much a look over sight line and so the view of it is something that is important when you're seeing roofs and looking at the backyards, they become m ore obvious. One thing we were asking is if they could put a height restriction on their perimeter homes, especially the ones that back up to Ten Mile, so that the tallest homes were at least one Meridian PlannIng and Zoning Commission Mealing February 6, 2003 Page 53 of 106 lot into the development, so that we don't have the tall homes right at the perimeter, something that -- let me go over to the map and I will show you. Right here we have two homes that have a really nice view from the front, but from the backside, they are 30- foot high walls. You know, it would be nice to see some of the -- if we are going to be having to deal with some of those things, see some architectural improvements to the homes that break up that stark look. We have a property right here that was built with a room above the garage, so it's got 30 feet of roof. If you look at it from the side view, we have got 70 percent roof, bare roof, a nd it really does not fit with a ny kind of visual presentation that's acceptable. We are concerned that the homes in here -- the cheapest home in here is worth about 180,000 dollars and that was a depressed property sold at foreclosure. I'm concerned that if this is allowed to be R-8, if some of the other issues aren't mitigated by making sure that the play area is going to have good drainage, making sure that we have access keeping the ditch maintained and cleaned, that it's going to have a negative impact on our property values. We have, you know, one of the nicer neighborhoods in Meridian here at Parkside Creek, this could very easily continue this style of high quality neighborhood, and so that's what our concerns are. It would be nice some day to see some better cooperation between the Fuller Park Operators and the city, because they seem to add to the lack of betterment to our neighborhood. This issue of being able to deal with the maintenance here is important to us. Borup: Mr, Glines, could you point out where your house is located? Glines: Right there. I'm semi-retired, so I'm out on this property all the time and I'm out with my dogs. I'm -- you know, we have had quite an increase in foot traffic along here since the path was paved through. With that, there is more of a concern that it's in a maintainable state. Just when they finished -- when Fuller Park was finished putting the path in, the weekend before Thanksgiving, traffic on this path has probably gone up four fold and yet there is nothing being done to maintain the esthetics .around it. Borup: Okay. Any questions? Zaremba: In your subdivision along this south property line, are there any height restrictions on those homes? Glines: There are no height restrictions, but the way the homes have been built, there are none of them that have that stark height here. They are in an architectural style where there is a build up and that's a drastically different look than a two-story flat wall that's, you know, a lot wide on these lots over here. Borup: The back of the homes have a build up? Glines: Well, you might have a patio that's lower and, then, if it's a second story, it's not right at the back of the building, and that breaks the look up. It gives a much more esthetic appearance and so that's what we are asking that -- in this area we have at least some sort of a -- don't build us a 35 high, 40-foot wide flat wall, but, instead, put some breaks in it, maybe -- and you can see the house in here. Yes. Yes. There are the ones further over towards -- Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting February 6, 2003 Page 54 of 106 Borup: But this is in your subdivision? Glines: Yes. Borup: This one showing a full height wall with no windows or anything in it. Glines: Well, that's the - that's the only one on the entire -- on the entire area that does that. Borup: Okay. Glines: Okay. As you can see here, see, we have a pond there that isn't even maintained. Yet, we have what could be an extremely beautiful and useful park, the Fuller Park people choose to make the pond inaccessible for anybody to fish or whatever else, because they just don't want people using that part of the park and what's the pond for? With the additional children we are going to have here, which I have nothing against children - in fact, I used to go out here and play with the kids in the ditch, because we used to get crawdads together and things. The kids would have great science lessons out there. It would be great if we could somehow get some of these improvements done, so that the kids can have realistic things to do, besides just the swing sets and open space. If we could sort of bring the things together and my concern is that if we don't bring them together now while there is access to all directions on the properties there, Fuller Park and the creek and such, that it will never happen. Okay? Borup: I think that ought to be really good. You do realize that this developer is going to be restricted to the properties they own and what they can do. Glines: So, the issue I have at that point is that what was thought to be access to clean the creek from their side is going to be blocked by the setback that they have to put the path there. What the district needs -- the water district wants 18 feet, well, they are going to have to rely upon where the paved area is on the other side to maintain the ditch and one of the concerns I have is that the ditch get as much maintenance done prior to the development. Afterwards it can maybe be maintained without the heavy shovels, so that we don't get stuck in this thing of nobody wants to come in and tear up the asphalt until finally they have to and now they have got to destroy the -- Borup: We will get some clarification on that, because I think Nampa-Meridian is pretty strict on their maintenance requirements and they are going to -- Glines: That's the problem that -- Borup: They are going to need to comply with what they want. Glines: Both Fuller and the two develops up here basically didn't maintain their agreements with Nampa-Meridian and my concern is that -- you know, that this be done prior to development, that's it's got -- there is enough improvement in it, so we don't Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting February 6, 2003 Page 55 of 106 have to worry about who we are going to get to do it, because Nampa-Meridian doesn't have the funds to do anything of an esthetic value. Borup: Okay. Thank you. Bravo: Good evening. My name is Steve Bravo and I reside .at 3715 West Pine, which is adjacent to the proposed development there. I didn't have a problem down here until just a few minutes ago when I was talking to some of these folks and they mentioned water mains coming in from T en Mile over to that subdivision. My concern and my neighbors' concern are what kind of services are they going to punch through on the road? It is a private lane. It's only a 20-foot wide road at that point from Ten Mile to the point where that subdivision will end and so we are concerned about what kind of services they want to put through there or try to put through there. It is considered a private lane at this point. We understand it's been deeded to the county, but not accepted by the county for over 40 years, so we don't know -- I'm a little curious about that at this point. The other concern we have is since they will be paving and running Pine down the backside of the subdivision. We would like some insurances that where it ends at the subdivision there will be a permanent or semi-permanent blockage, so that people will not be forcing their way through there then, using our private lane as access to the subdivision for short trips to the store or whatever. You have Albertson's right up at the corner, that would -- it would be very tempting, because of the -- it would cut off quite a bit of driving distance for -- you know, to get to a store up there. Borup: So EI Gato does connect to Pine? Bravo: Pardon me? Borup: I mean it does connect -- Bravo: To Black Cat. Borup: To Black Cat. Well, where does it go to the west -- or to the east? Bravo: Well, it would come -- wherever it stops at the east, which is at the back of my neighbor's property there, right off of Ten Mile Drain. Borup: I was confused on which sections that you were concerned about them using. Okay. That's what I'm saying. To the east-- Bravo: Yes. Borup: - of the development. Bravo: And I have seen that work, even subdivisions right in town where there is some blocked areas where people have torn down the wooden barricades and they are driving through there over the dirt and the mud and -- Borup: So that does connect to Ten Mile at this point, then? Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meetlng February 6, 2003 Page 56 of 106 Bravo: Yes. That's our access to our property back there. Borup: And you get to it from Ten Mile? Bravo: Yes that's our entrance but once that's developed, the two roads will be connected. Borup: And they are not at this point? Bravo: No. It goes out in the field there. It ends at my property -- my neighbor's property where this solid line is here on the east side. There is an access, a single lane access road going to that property, but they have just -- that they are trying to develop right now and it's -- so right now this - this property right here, the road extends passed here and it winds up around here. There is a -- there was a mobile home complex back here and there is some little stuff back there now, but the road -- there is a single lane road going all the way through off of Ten Mile. That's how all of us back here get access. We are worried about what kind of services they want to extend down the private lane. There is an issue of who actually owns that road. It's never been settled that I know of. They will not issue anymore permits or anything back here, because of the size of the road, and what we are worried about is if this becomes a paved road and it dead ends right here. There is not anything to -- some kind of permanent fix of some sort, we are going to have people punching through there and using that small 22-foot wide lane as a -- Borup: Okay. We will get an answer on that. Bravo: So that's our chief concerns and all we have as property owners in that area. Borup: Thank you, sir. Do we have anyone else? Fackelman: I'm John Fackelman, 1291 North Sawcreek Way. I live right here. I own these five acres that lay here. Of course, I'm concerned about the sewage. Now, what I understand is there is a 12-inch temporary line running up here and I don't know how these people can sewer, these people can sewer, these people can sewer, these people can sewer and this new development can sewer in a 12-inch line. I just don't know how you calculate that much stuff going through a 12-inch line. That is a 12-inch line? Freckleton: M r. Chairman, Members 0 f t he Commission, Mr. F ackelman, that - - it is currently a 12-inch line in Black Cat. We are -- JUB Engineers is currently working on plans for the design for a new trunk line that will be in Black Cat Road that will be -- I believe it is a 36-inch line. Yes 36-inch line. That will be the trunk that will be extended down through to service the service area from Black Cat. Fackelman: Well, that makes sense, but how you could approve this today with the situation the way it is, sounds unrealistic until -- Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting February 6, 2003 Page 57 of 106 Borup: How many homes should be able to access a 12-inch line? I'm asking you. Fackelman: A 12-inch line is like this. Borup: No. How many homes can that accommodate? Fackelman: I don't know. Borup: Well -- and I think that was the point of -- we, as a Commission, don't know either. That's why -- we, as a Commission don't know, that's something that is determined by the engineers. That was why staff was saying this needs to be . continued, because that needs to be determined. Fackelman: Yes. Borup: So, I think they have the same concerns you do. Fackelman: Yes and I have a concern that this land, when it gets developed, is going to dump right into that sewer line there and the way it is now, I don't think that would be possible to go over to Black Cat. It looks like we are waiting on the funds and all -- to put that new sewer line in. The way it sits today, I don't think you could do that. Thank you. Borup: Yes and that was the staff's concern is determine what it really will handle. Do we have anyone else? Jewett: My name is Jim Jewett. My address is 3654 South Rustler in Meridian. I have been asked to come here tonight by a close friend that lives directly east of this property. She called me on this about a week ago right before they had the neighborhood meeting and asked me some questions, because, for some of you that don't know, I am a developer as well. I said I would look into it to see that -- to answer some of her questions and I do compliment the developer for having a neighborhood meeting. I think it's a good thing and I told her to go to it and asked her questions and -- Borup: And did she do that? Jewett: Excuse me? Borup: Did she do that? Jewett: Yes, she did do that. She had some questions, she asked and she couldn't be here tonight, she's out of town. She asked me to come and just -- just to get some answers. I don't think she wants to oppose any development she just wants to get some answers. It seems like there is a lot of answers that need to be answered yet and for me to make an analysis for her, I'd have to see the same thing you guys see. What I -- a question that did come up in talking to her -- and I just wanted to bring it up to the Commission, is that when the first phase went in, she wasn't notified, obviously, because she was over 300 feet. That set a trend and, like I said to her, when Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting February 6, 2003 Page 58 of 106 something goes in an R-8 on the first one, why shouldn't it go on the second one. It just points out kind of a fundamental problem that you need to look at an entire area when deciding a land use, how it should go, not just for one particular piece. When you look at this piece, what I'm going to -- what I would ask you to look at is look at the fact there is another piece - large piece to the south of this that will probably go what this one does and what's it appropriate use? It's closer to a railroad track. It most likely should go higher density. Maybe this piece is more suited for an R-4 development that would be more of a buffer between the Parkside Creek and the railroad track, you know, so we can get some more mixed use diversity in here, because I think this Comp Plan calls for diversity. The plan that I saw looked a little cookie cutter. I do like the fact it wasn't a cul-d-sac. I do like that. I don't like cul-d-sacs. I think that's a trend we need to move away from. The other thing I like to bring up is an issue - and if you could, Steve, the layout -- when I went down to meet with staff on it, that's not the way I saw staff and now they are telling us it's 150 lots, so I'm questioning if there is a bad notice here. Borup: Were you here earlier when they talked about that? The original had two cul-d- sacs coming together and they have joined the two. Jewett: But did the notice go out at 148 lots or 150? Borup: I'm not sure. Are you concerned about two lots? Jewett: Well, I'm just concerned that if somebody does want to question, the subdivision is two lots and an issue that could put this - is it an issue of a notice. And I don't know of any other jurisdiction in the county that would allow an increase in density to go without a new notice. Kirkpatrick: Commissioners, I can answer that, if you have a question. Borup: Please do, Wendy. Kirkpatrick: We notice at 148 and we considered it -- the addition of the additional two lots to be something that came up here at the hearing. It's another option for them -- a way for them to reconfigure the subdivision. It's not official yet, that's why it's okay to go with the notice at 148 lots. Borup: There was a previous one with the two cul-d-sacs that you like. Jewett: Right. That's the one that I saw. I think the other layout is probably best, but I haven't been able to analyze it, because there is no staff report. I just want to bring up the issues of -- this is - this subdivision is at the bare minimum for open space for the five percent. It has a lot of 65-foot wide lots and I think that the Commission needs to look at how the rest of this area might develop out when deciding the appropriate zoning for this property. I would like to reserve the right to testify again once I see a staff report and am able to look at it and - the issue of the sewer should actually be left to the engineers. I think that -- I think everyone has a right to develop. I want to make that clear. I think that they should go forward and I tried to explain to my friends that sometimes the higher the density is, the more valuable their property might become. Meridian Planning and ZonIng Commission Meeting February 6, 2003 Page 59 of 106 You know, they don't really want to move, but that's inevitable and -- but I just want to see quality development come towards them and reasonable, so that they are not infringed on too greatly. Other than that, I'd stand for any questions. Borup: Any questions? Thank you. Anyone else like to testify? Okay final comments, Kevin? Amar: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Commissioners. With regards to some of the questions that come up tonight, I will try to address them in order as I wrote them down. If I missed some, remind me what I missed and I will address those. Borup: Okay. Amar: Mr. Glines' comments with respect to the creek maintenance and the water modeling -- could we go to the color map, please? On the creek maintenance -- and I did speak with Bill Henson with Nampa-Meridian Irrigation District and - yes, Bill Henson. He -- his first comment was are we going to have enough room on the top of the bank to maintain our creek and that was something he wanted to be assured of and that was one of the reasons for the License Agreement. As you can see here - and I don't know that this will be the final location of the path -- that pathway is actually set off at the top of the bank. They need a minimum of 15 feet, prefer 18 feet, from the top of bank in order to do their maintenance. That 18 feet is something that we will plant in grass, but it is also something that they can drive their track hoe down or their tractor down or whatever they need to drive down there in order to maintain their creek. Borup: So the maintenance would come from the south side? Amar: It can come from the south side. Borup: I mean that's their intention. Amar: They want to be able to maintain it and Mr. Glines is correct, on the north side of the creek they did build that pathway right at the edge of the bank. In fact, I have got pictures showing that. In this one -- and I tried to take it - you can see the other bank there is actually road tracks up there if you look close enough. They will be able to maintain it on the south side of the creek. They will also be able to access the south side of the creek through the Castlebrook No, 1 Subdivision, as there is a common area right in that corner. Access would be important not only for us and the existing neighbors, but definitely important for Nampa-Meridian Irrigation District and that's something we will maintain, largely because they will require it our License Agreement and be built accordingly. As such, I'm sure the City of Meridian during construction will also be interested that we are building in accordance with N ampa-Meridian Irrigation District. With respect to the water modeling and what is out there, when we did dig those test holes, it was at the height of irrigation season. However, we also installed piezometer, so they can monitor those -- the water table throughout the year. By the time this develops we will have about a year's worth of monitoring and so we will know if the ground water fluctuates or if it was just a one day occurrence at the level it was at. The firm we hired, Materials Testing, does go out once a month, takes measurements, Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting February 6, 2003 Page 60 of 106 and determines what the water level is, so we get an annual water level. With respect to the home sizes, it was requested at the neighborhood meeting to restrict these lots to a single story home. After looking at what is in the area and what we see on larger lots, our lots are big enough to put a single story home and still meet our minimum size. This is project -- I think Mr. Glines' house is this one -- not that one? Anyway, there are a number of homes along there that are two-story. Also, there are a number of homes that are single story. That will give it the architectural relief that I think he has achieved or we are trying to achieve. With regards to Mr. Crowler -- Fackelman. Sorry. The services down Pine, if any of those will be water services -- I understand we will need to talk to those neighbors, that's something we will be doing. We do not propose sending any vehicle down there. When we did have our neighborhood meeting, Mr. and Mrs. Boslin, I believe their names are, who actually Mr. Jewett represents this evening, that was a concern of theirs. May we go to the vicinity map that you have? The roadway right now basically stops here. There is a bridge that -- the first time I crossed it I got out of my truck and made sure I could actually get back across that before I crossed it. We don't want people going across that bridge. It's not rated for vehicles to be used continuously. It's rated for that house. Borup: So are you going to have a barricade, then, at the edge of your subdivision? Amar: We are definitely going to have a type three barricade. We would also like to put in some Jersey barricades, some cement barricade, in order to do a complete block of that road. We don't propose putting any vehicle traffic down it. All our emergency access -- we are providing two ways in and two ways out off of North Black Cat Road, so we don't need it as a secondary emergency access either. The only caveat with that, we would have to pass that by the Fire Department, although, with this bridge here, I'm fairly confident a fire truck is not going to cross that b ridge. We will barricade that. Again, we do not want people traveling down that road, that is a liability for us on those neighbors, and we will try to force all those people back out by putting type three Jersey barricades -- for that matter, if you want a pile here to -- we will do whatever it takes to keep people off of t hat road. With respect toM r. F ackelman and the sewer, that is something we are looking at and I think Mr. Borup addressed that issue. That's something we will determine. Mr. Jewett, his comment on looking at the entire area for development, I believe that's what the Comprehensive Plan does. That was the intent of the Comprehensive Plan. I think it took three years to adopt. We are looking at the entire area for development and consistency with that Comprehensive Plan and feel that the project that we are bringing before you will be of benefit to the neighborhood. I think those were the issues that I saw. Borup: That's the same notes I have. Does anyone else have any other questions? Centers: Yes I had a question, Mr. Chairman but are you going to improve the road down to here? Amar: Yes, sir. The entire -- Centers: Then, you're going to have a barricade here? Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting February 6, 2003 Page 61 of 106 Amar: Correct. Centers: Okay. Zaremba: Are you providing the whole road or half plus 12? Amar: Half plus 12. Zaremba: Yes and are you still barricading it? Amar: And still barricading it. Borup: Is ACHD going to want a turn around down there or anything? Amar: I don't know. I know that there is no access off of the point up at that end of the road. If they do want a turn around, that's something we will have to put in. Borup: It's not a normal -- Amar: That wasn't a requirement that they made in there -- Borup: That's not normally where they would require a turn around. That's why I was wondering. Amar: That was not a requirement when we -- this project has been in front of ACHD and was approved and it was not required at that time. Borup: I guess if they want it, they will let you know. Amar: Yes. They are pretty good at that. Borup: Okay. Is there anything else, Commissioners? Zaremba: Well, the solution to that -- there is no reason for anybody to go down there. Would there be -- Borup: Put the barricade up -- Zaremba: -- real barricades there and put another kind of temporary barricade up here. Amar: 1ft hat's acceptable to A CHD and the city, t hat's acceptable to us. We want people to travel to there. Pass that point they have no need of continuing down. The entire length will be improved half plus 12, as we will landscape the entire length. In the future when that road does extend, it will be ready to be extended. There will be no cost that would need to be out laid by ACHD or the City of Meridian. Borup: Anything else, Commissioners? Probably one item for discussion and that would be a date to continue to. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission MeeUng February 6, 2003 Page 62 of 106 Centers: The second meeting in March or-- Amar: Can I bring up one other thing? Borup: Yes. Amar: There was one other item of the 148 or 150 lots. I believe staff addressed that, but that is something we want to put on record. That was a change requested by staff, putting that road through and doing that we picked up two additional lots. If we could get comment when we do get around to making a decision after our next hearing, if we could have comment and make a decision on that also. Borup: I'm surprised it wasn't designed that way anyway. You get two extra lots. Amar: Different cities, different places. Some people like cul-d-sacs and some people don't so you try to throw that dart and hopefully hit what people will like. In this case, it wasn't that. We have redesigned it based on the staff comments. Zaremba: Well, I think for future reference, I would be comfortable with this configuration. I think it's a good one and I think - my major question is how long does it take you to get all the engineering answers that -- Borup: Previously they said a couple of weeks, which would mean we would have to go into March, then. Centers: Well, I know March -- our first meeting in March is booked. Borup: Right. Yes and the second meeting is when we try to set aside for continued hearings. We do have regular hearings scheduled for our second meeting, because the first one was filled up. It is not completely jammed, so that probably would be an appropriate time. Zaremba: March 20th would be that date March 20lh. Amar: If there are no other questions -- Centers: Mr. Chairman, you have a hand raised out here. Borup: Okay. I assume you're not planning to come back next meeting to ask any other questions, you mean? Okay. Could you state your name again? Glines: Mark Glines. You pointed out that this area here is going to have the turfed area and the path and that that's licensed -- that will be license arranged with the Irrigation District. I'm concerned that when the Irrigation District does access that, they use a track vehicle that is really rough on the environment. Not only do they do that, but when they pull the sludge out of here they pack it up on top of the berm there and so have they discussed ways to mitigate the damage and haul away the Sludge that's Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting February 6, 2003 Page 63 of 106 going to get hauled out of there? That's something that - whether it be homeowners association is going to put together a building fund to take care of having to restore the landscaping here, whether they are going to provide a way to actually, maybe from the opposite side, have a truck that could get loaded with the sludge and get hauled out -- you know, that's worth considering. You know, that's going to be down the road five years after -- if the maintain it right away, then, if they can push it out a little further before they have come through and do the sludge removal -- Borup: It will eventually have to be done. Glines: But that needs to be addressed long term. Borup: Okay. Yes. Wildwood: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, if I might address that, since I'm the person who is responsible for drafting those agreements and working with Meridian. Borup: Again, that's Susan Wildwood speaking. Wildwood: Yes. Sorry. Thank you, sir for the record, Susan Wildwood. The License Agreements that are done with Nampa-Meridian Irrigation District, as well Pioneer and any other Irrigation Districts that work with the developers include the requirements for removal of what are called canal soils. It's not sludge. It is called canal spoils. Typically, it's sand, but it is the material that they use if they have to dredge out the canal area. That's always a part of the agreement, so that that's written in as far as maintenance, requirements for maintenance, and the fact that it's not the -- it would be the homeowners association's requirement to remove that material because this path would be maintained under that License Agreement. The way Nampa-Meridian and the other Irrigation Districts work is if they have to come through and do a spoils removal, they contact the homeowners association, and they work in coordination with them to do the spoils removal from the ditch. It depends on which side they really need to access it from. They would take whichever side is going to be the most convenient for their equipment and where ever they need to do the clean outs. The spoils are, then removed and they can either be removed into a truck, they can be actually spread in some cases. If it's thin enough, in the past that they have actually spread it out over some of the areas and, then, if it needs to be reseeded or if it can go out thin enough, the grass is going to come back up through. It's a variety of things, but that's typically worked out as part of that License Agreement with Nampa-Meridian, as well as the other districts. Borup: Okay so, then, they do require something done, it's not just piled up and left? Wildwood: That's correct. Borup: I think that was his concern. All right. Thank you. Is there any other discussion? Are we ready to continue this? Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting February 6, 2003 Page 64 of 106 Centers: Well, the only comment I would like to make -- and, then, I would propose that we continue it -- is that regarding the R-4, I can't say that I disagree. I have heard a number of builders say the same thing that this city is getting full of R-8 we just approved one earlier tonight. Two weeks ago. However, it's not up to this body, in my opinion, to make that decision, because it does meet the Comprehensive Plan and it is up to the City Council if they want to draw the line. I can't say that I disagree with that. I have talked to a number of builders that feel the same way and a number of residents of the City of Meridian that feel the same way, that we have a glut of cookie cutter R-8. That's just telling it like it is. Anyway, I would move that we continue -- Borup: I'd like to comment on that, too, because I agree, I mean my preference is an R- 4 and in the past, the R-4's have all been more cookie cutter, 8,OOO-foot lots, and 80 by 100. Also, in the past R-8 have all been the minimum, 65 by 100. The one thing I do like about the new trend is the new R-8 we are getting a variety of lot sizes. They are not all at the minimum, we are getting the larger lots mixed in, and I see that as a positive thing. I don't know which I'd rather see, cookie cutter R-4 or a variety R-8, I don't know, but I do see that as positive of a variety of lot sizes, rather than all at the minimum. Centers: Well, as I said, I don't think we can draw the line. It's not up to us. If it meets the Comp Plan and -- Borup: Right. Centers: You know it's out of our hands, in my opinion. Zaremba: Well, just to chime in with an opinion, I agree, I like R-4's, but I think R-8's are also appropriate. This development particular, the homes -- the homes that appear to be along here probably wouldn't qualify as R-4's. Borup: The lot sizes are there, most of them. Zaremba: They would be larger and so those are the ones that are facing the R-4 zone over here. Borup: And, actually, the minimum square footage you're talking is larger than the normal R-4. Zaremba: Yes. The flip side of that is the higher densities do two things. They chew up less farmland, so that you have a higher density on a property closer to the center of town, rather than continuing to sprawl. They make eventual mass transportation more attractive, so I kind of side for the higher densities. Borup: If this was all minimum lot size, R-8, I would really not be too excited about it. Zaremba: Oh, I like the variety. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting February 6, 2003 Page 65 of 106 Borup: Okay. Commissioner Centers, you were about ready to make a motion, believe. Centers: Yes. I would move that we continue the Public Hearing Number 11 and 12 on our agenda, specifically AZ 02-031 and PP 02-032, to our second scheduled meeting in March, which would be March 20th. Zaremba: I will second that. Borup: Motion and second. Any discussion? All in favor? Anyopposed? Thank you. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES Borup: Okay. Thank you, everyone, for being here. This meeting -- or this hearing has been continued to March 20th. Item 13. Public Hearing: AZ 02-030 Request for annexation and zoning of 38.65 acres from RUT to R-4 zones for proposed Silverleaf Subdivision by Crestline Development, LLC - 2683 West Chinden Boulevard: Public Hearing: PP 02-031 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 72 building lots and 8 other lots on 38.65 acres in a proposed R-4 zone for proposed Silverleaf Subdivision by Crestline Development, LLC - 2683 West Chinden Boulevard: Item 14. Borup: Okay. The next Public Hearings are Numbers 13 and 14, AZ 02-030, request for annexation and zoning of 38.65 acres from RUT to R-4 in a proposed Silverleaf Subdivision by Crestline Development and Public Hearing PP 02-031, request for Preliminary Plat approval of 72 building lots and 8 other lots on the same 38.65 acres in a proposed R-4 zone. We would like to open both these Public Hearings at this time and start with the staff report. Siddoway: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The proposed Silverleaf Subdivision is up on Chinden Boulevard, up at the northern edge of our area of impact. It is adjacent to the northern portion of the recently approved Lochsa Falls Subdivision. It does encompass 38.65 acres. They are requesting an R-4 zone. This is a -- it shows the current proposed layout of that subdivision. The large green area shown in this layout is the proposed school site to be purchased by the Meridian School District. This is the proposed Landscape Plan for the landscape areas that are within the subdivision and the street buffer out on Chinden Boulevard. You should have a staff report dated January 2ih from David McKinnon and Bruce Freckleton. In general, I can tell you that the major issues with this have been related to access, water, and sewer. I'm going to have Bruce talk about some of these here in a minute. I'm going to start at the back of this staff report with the recommendation. The first one, the paragraph starts with the recommendation for denial, because of the water, sewer, and road issues. I have got information tonight from the applicant that they may be able to address the timing of those things in a manner that would not cause it to be denied. The reason for the denial -- recommendation for denial is because of - the timing seems so far outfor those