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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2001 01-09• • ,CITY OF MERI~~T CITY COUNCIL STRATEGIC PLANNING SESSION /WORKSHOP AGENDA ITEMS FOR DISCUSSION Tuesday, January 9, 2001, at 6:30 P.M. City Council Chambers Roll Call.• Tammy deWeerd Cherie McCandless Ron Anderson Keith Bird Mayor Robert Cowie Issue #1 Discussion with the Meridian Development Committee Issue #2 Discussion of Cooperative Agreement with ITD, ACHD, and the City of Meridian Issue #3 Discussion of Investigation of Applican# Ordinance Issue #4 Discussion of Background Check for Fire Fighters Applicants Issue #5 Discussion of H R Department Ordinance Issue #6 Discussion of Fee Structure for P & Z Applications, Permits, etc. Issue #7 Discussion of Sewer & Water Connections Outside the Cify Limits Issue #8 Discussion of Permissive Encroachment Agreement Issue #9 Discussion of Revenues from Parking Fines, Animal Confro! Fines and Idaho Power Franchise Fees Issue #10 Discussion of Back Flow /Cross Connection Ordinance Issue #11 Discussion of Financing Documents for Police Building Issue #12 Discussion of Future Topics Meridian City Counal Agerula - January s9, 2000 Page 1 of 1 All materials preaerrted at public me~ings shall become property of the City of Meridian. Anyone desiring accaranod~iar for d~abil~ies rated to documents and/or hearings, ple~e contact the City Clerk's Office at 889-4433 at lest 48 hours prior to the public meting. • ~ CITY OF MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL STRATEGIC PLANNING SESSION /WORKSHOP AGENDA ITEMS FOR DISCUSSION Tuesday, January 9, 2001, at 6:30 P.M. City Council Chambers Roll Call.• Tammy deWeerd Cherie McCandless Ron Anderson Keith Bird ~~Mayor Robert Corrie Issue #1 Discussion with the Meridian Development Committee Issue #2 Discussion of Cooperative Agreement with ITD, ACHD, and the City of Meridian Issue #3 Discussion of Investigation of Applicant Ordinance Issue #4 Discussion of Background Check for Fire Fighters Applicants Issue #5 Discussion of H R Department Ordinance Issue #6 Discussion of Fee Structure for P & Z Applications, Permits, etc. Issue #7 Discussion of Sewer & Water Connections Outside the City Limits Issue. #8 Discussion of Pennissive Encroachment Agreement Issue #9 Discussion of Revenues from Parking Fines, Animal Control Fines and Idaho Power Franchise Fees Issue #10 Discussion of Back Flow /Cross Connection Ordinance Issue #11 Discussion of Financing Documents for Police Building Issue #12 Discussion of Future Topics Meridian City Council Agenda -January 9, 2000 Page 1 of 1 All mnterfals presented ~ public meetings shall became property of the City of Meridian. Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities mated to documents andlor hearings, pl~se contact the City ClerKs Office at 88&4433 at I~st 48 hours prior to the public meeting. • • MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL WORKSHOP JANUARY 9. 2001 The regularly City Council Workshop of the City of Meridian was called to order at 6:32 p.m. on Tuesday, January 9, 2001, by Council President Keith Bird. Members present: Robert Corrie, Keith Bird, Tammy de Weerd, Cherie McCandless, Ron Anderson. Others present: Bill Nichols, Shari Stiles, Janice Smith, Ken Bowers, Gary Smith, Tom Kuntz, Bill Gordon, Joe Silva, Will Berg. Bird: Okay it's 6:32, I'm going to call the Strategic Planning Session Workshop for the City Council to order. The Mayor and three other Councilmen, with the exception of Ron Anderson are present. We've got the agenda set up and Council, with your permission, Mr. Kuntz wants about two minutes to show us the historical panels that are going to be set up at Generation Plaza. Is that okay with you guys, Mayor? Kuntz: Thank you Mayor and Council, Mr. President. The six panels that will be mounted behind the fountain on the plaster walls down there now have been completed. I set them up in front of the Council booth here. I would like you to look at them when you have time sometime tonight. We'll leave them here for a couple of days and then pick them up on Monday for storage. They will be mounted sometime this spring and then we plan a grand opening of Generations Plaza too, sometime towards the end of May or the first part of June. Of course we will send invitations out to everyone. Thank you for your time. Bird: Thank you Tom. Any questions? De Weerd: Mr. President, Tom, did you find out if they have a warranty? Kuntz: I did not, I was not able to reach Noel today but I will check into that. De Weerd: Maybe Terry even might know. Bird: Come forward onto the tape. T. Smith: We had discussed Lila Hill and I had discussed that type of thing with Noel Weber of Classic Signs. There was an element of protection there but I haven't been thinking about this and I can't recall exactly what it was. He will have the art work all in computer so if there is damage and it has to be replaced, it's not going to be the time consuming, rigorous effort that's got into getting to this point. There is some element of protection there, but I can't, from memory, recall what it was. Bird: It's the coating that is on the outside (inaudible) Kerry that day we were Meridian City Council Worksho~ January 9, 2001 Page 2 down there, when I went down with you and Lila. It's the coating on the outside? The way it's put on and stuff for protection? T. Smith: The way the coating is put on there it's going to protect the surface a great deal. Still, since it's a metal product, a sledgehammer or rock is going to make a dent in the product. De Weerd: We found a nail file could probably do it too. T. Smith: They are not indestructible. Neal is providing some element of help in the event of damage but I can't recall what was agreed upon at this point. De Weerd: Terry, I would like to know -they look wonderful and I know you and Lila spent considerable time and effort on this. It shows it's a very nice product. T. Smith: Thank you. It could have been finished a long time ago but it wouldn't have been near as accurate or it wouldn't have been the combination of photos that we ended up with. De Weerd: Thank you. Bird: Thank you Tom thanks Terry. Corrie: Mr. President, I would like to thank the Downtown Redevelopment Committee for being here this evening. I haven't attended all of your meetings and the ones I haven't I apologize for. You're doing a fantastic job. I just wanted to tell you that before we get started, then I'll tell you again after you get through. You're doing a great job so thank you very much. Thank you Mr. President. Bird: Thank you. Issue #1 Discussion with the Meridian Development Committee Bird: We will go into Item No. 1, which is the discussion with the Meridian Development Committee. I think Chairman Johnson wants to -Jim Johnson. Would you like to introduce your Committee there, Mr. Johnson? Johnson: Sure, I planned to do that. Thank you. Mayor, President of the Council, City Council people, interested City officials and whoever else might be here. I would like to first introduce your Committee since it's the City you appointed. Malcolm McCoy, Rich Allison -most of these names are familiar to you, Steve Siddoway - I hope everybody knows him. Meg Peters, Ann Marie, Omair Shamm, I believe I got that right didn't I? Clair Bowman's not a member of our Committee but he's been to many of our meetings, and he's been a very helpful and lending expertise that we need, past experience. Teri Sackman's our secretary, Clarence Jones, his wife Laurie Jones, Terry Smith, and Gary Benoit. Meridian City Council Worksho~ January 9, 2001 Page 3 That's our entire Committee so I think we have 100 percent attendance here. The attendance at the meeting has been very good. Anyway, I thought what I would do is give you just a brief overview of where we're at and how we got there. Then answer specific questions. The people on the Committee will be able to answer questions I can't answer. At least help with that process so that it's not all of my burden here. Just to give you a brief history, in April of the year 2000, April 18th to be exact, this City Council appointed the Downtown Development Committee. We have since dropped the Downtown in that name so we're gong by MDC, Meridian Development Committee. It consists of the 11 members we have here. One ex-official member, who is Keith Bird, he has been attending our meetings. As I mentioned before, Clair Bowman, the Planning Specialist has also attended many of our meetings. Our first meeting was held in May. We have held monthly meetings since then and we haven't missed a month. Tonight's meeting will be our 10th such get together. I'm kind of reading here from an outline that I've prepared so bare with me on that. Meetings to date have been to explore the process, invite people with expertise in Urban Renewal, to provide us with their insight, answer questions, etc. As a Committee, we are now ready to take the next crucial and required steps to move forward with a plan. We ask for and received from the Mayor, permission for Mr. Nichols, the City Attorney, to review the Urban Renewal Law; he's done so. In his January 2nd memorandum -- which I hope all of you have a copy of -- is an excellent summary of the law and the steps necessary to establish the agency, which will then proceed with the process and the project. Additionally the Committee has reviewed Urban Renewal Projects past and present, within the states and in other states. Particularly cities that have challenges similar to those we face in Meridian. To name a few, we have gathered information on projects in Twin Falls, Pocatello, Idaho Falls, Buhl, Emmett, Cascade and others. As well as out of state cities, such as Englewood, Colorado. We have spent a good deal of time picking the brains of others in order to avoid some of the problems encountered by these groups and that are typical obstacles through renewal processes. We have certain steps now that we must achieve before we can move on. We're really at an impasse with any ability to do anything further. With the consented advice of the Council, the Mayor now must appoint a board of commissioners - not less than three and not more than nine, the terms of each to be staggered. The Mayor may, but is not required to appoint achairman, a co-chairman for a term of one year. There after the Commissioners elect those positions, our Committee would like to offer our input and provide you with a list of what we consider to be suitable candidates for that Commission. We would be glad to give you a biographical sketch on those candidates. The Commission then would -after that process is over -the Commission would begin to exercise its powers within the agency, within the State Law. The first thing we would need to do would be to adopt bylaws. It is important to emphasize at this point, and all through this process, that anything we do cannot be done without the full approval of the City Council. We are in the process of establishing an area and a plan. It would be premature for us to bring a plan to you at this time and designate a specific area. We need to do our homework, your homework, get Meridian City Council Worksho~ January 9, 2001 Page 4 sanction formally with the board then we can proceed with that. We are talking about some specific areas in Meridian -particularly in Old Town that would meet the criteria of a deteriorated or a deteriorating situation. Once that's in place then the Public Hearing process would commence -there again that's all set by law - a funding vehicle would be put forth. An idea probably something like tax increment financing, which seems to be the most successful way of doing these types of projects. That's with - in short that's tax-exempt bonds that are sold to the public and areas designated as the Revenue Allocation District. In effect, taxes are frozen at that point - in other words we will have to provide view and with the officials involved a listing of the taxes at a certain date collected on those properties. Any new development in that area would create additional taxes, and those taxes, until the project is completed would come to the Urban Renewal Agency. That gets rather involved but there are people here that know a lot more about Tax Increment Financing than I do. Basically that's it, that's where we are. I appreciate all of the work of the Committee; they've been very attentive. We've brought in a lot of outside help, expertise, we have picked the brains of people that have put CCDC together and are presently running that in the City of Boise. We've had some financing people come in from Wells Fargo Bank that are very familiar with the type of financing we will probably use. We're prepared to go. What we need from you now at this point, to reiterate is formal sanction and appointment of board. At this point that's my presentation, and I will try to answer questions or ask people from the Committee to respond to your questions at this time. Bird: Council, any questions for Mr. Johnson or any of the Committee? De Weerd: Mr. President, now on our side of it you're asking tonight just for a formal sanction? That would be through official bylaws and setting up a board? Johnson: Initially it would be just the establishment of the board, as I understand it. De Weerd: Through an Ordinance? Johnson: Followed, but the bylaws. Nichols: Mr. President, Mayor, members of the Council, members of the Committee, the first step is a resolution passed by the Council which establishes that there are deteriorated or deteriorating areas within the City. Rehab of those areas is necessary in the public health, safety, etc. and that there's a need for an Urban Renewal Agency to function in the City. Though (inaudible) that's the first step is a resolution. The second step is the appointment of the Commission itself as far as how large the board is and who is on that board. Bird: Any other questions? Meridian City Council Worksho~ January 9, 2001 Page 5 Anderson: Mr. President, Jim I guess I'm just not familiar enough with these Urban Renewal Districts to actually have an opinion one way or another at this point. I do have some questions about what it might do to our existing budget and the tax moneys and things that we're able to collect now. I guess kind of on the future -I've heard a little bit about how it can affect some of these smaller Taxing Districts because you had mentioned that it freezes them at the level now. Meridian has a very low mail levy rate right now so I'm concerned about how this might impact us long term for budgeting in the City. I don't know if you can answer those questions or somebody else. Johnson: I can tell you what we've been told. Correct me, any of you if I'm wrong on this or off base on this. With the establishment of the 3 percent cap, which the City of Meridian has to live under, there is no longer the possibility of increased revenues not going to the other taxing entities such as School Districts, cities etc. There's no loss in revenue. Would (sic) anyone like to elaborate on that? Allison: It used to be back before 1995 that there would be a change in the (inaudible) of course everyone heard about that, that there was reduction in tax revenues to the City? That did take place up until 1995 whereas the stated changed the law. Now the City receives the exact same amount as well as all departments including fire, school, ACHD and others. They're not in a position where they want to object like they used to. Because of that change, the City gets the same amount of money as they would before. That's basically your question. Johnson: We do have a concern, right now our mail levy is - I forget the number now, like 3.2 or somewhere around that. 3.1, something. There is a provision in the state code that would allow us through a vote of the people to raise our mail levy to a 4.0. It's something that we've been considering as a City to help us assist with the rapid growth that we have and the need to expand public safety, and parks and everything else. I'm kind of curious how this might affect our ability to still do that, and I don't know if you're familiar with that allowance in the stated code that allows you to do that? Allison: I'm not knowledgeable about that specific code. I do know based on what we were informed from the experts we had. If we were to form this District and set up a tax increment financing area that the funds that we would receive would be over and above the normal funds that the City would receive or ACHD or anybody else. It might raise the taxes slightly in that area. Is that correct Mr. Weber? Weber: No. Allison: It does not raise the taxes at all? Meridian City Council Worksho~ January 9, 2001 Page 6 (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members.) Anderson: That might be helpful for me. Allison: If you were to take the creamery it would probably be a good example. Currently the creamery, I think it's probably worth in tax money, maybe $200,000 whatever it is. You would have a no levy set. At the time that we were created, and we created a Tax Increment Financing District, they would assess it and say it's $6,000 a year or whatever it is. That $6,000 a year would remain the same even after we were formed, any additional improvements that might be done on the creamery property if it were developed. Say it was a $5,000,000 project on the creamery and the original value was $200,000. 4.8 million dollars would be taxed at the same rate and we would receive our share of that money over and above the original assessed value that was set at the time that we were formed. That money is the money that we used to (inaudible). Now if you wanted to raise it to four rather than 3.2 as far as the City, I don't know if that would change it, I don't think it would. As far as this specific district, once it was set I think it stays set is the way I understood it. Maybe it wouldn't affect this specific Downtown Core District which we're developing. You have to keep in mind that we cannot have greater than 10 percent of the total City assets in our Redevelopment Agency budget. No more than that and it will probably be less than that. Anderson: How do they determine what your mill levy is going to be initially? Do you do some type of assessment about what your need is? Allison: There is no mill levy involved. Our income is for that improvement that's done within the district, over and above the original assessment. We go back to the $200,000 figure on the creamery where they create a $5,000,000 project. We get the additional money over and above the $200,000 that was originally set at the time it was appraised when our Committee had it appraised. It would be a specific date that we would set where the County Assessor assesses everything within the district that we're going to work with, any additional improvements that are done in that same area, not the City but just that area. Any additional improvements we would get the additional income. That's what we would use to operate and improve the entire downtown core. It's sort of like where you create one new building, say where the creamery is, and then others around the creamery would want to put in new facilities to that service, whomever might be at the creamery. De Weerd: Mr. President, Rich is it based on the property values then rather than a mill levy rate, it's on the property values? Allison: Exactly that's correct. De Weerd: They assess the properties as of the time you set your Urban Renewal District. Any improvements that would increase the value of that Meridian City Council Worksho~ January 9, 2001 Page 7 property, that tax difference then would go to the district. Allison: Correct and you can still raise it to 4 percent. In the whole City it wouldn't really make any difference as I see it. Anderson: So how does that - I think I'm starting to understand. How does that track with - I understand you have mill. levy. I understand it doesn't lower anybody's existing mill levy. How does that track as - as we get new growth in the City of Meridian each year? At budget time we get to consider that new growth in our - we take our previous years mill levy times that new growth? Does that eliminate that for us? Bird: Yes it does. Allison: Only in the area that we're working with which would be the Core District that would not probably generate new major construction unless we were to create a Renewal District. In other words we're going to take blithe, like the Cray meat or other areas within the Core District. Not historic buildings but blithe. Renew it, create apartments, office buildings, retail, restaurants, everything within this Core District that will bring other people in. They will also renew their property as well as the existing property owners that might renew their property as well. Of course through the City we would have a plan to create an image of what we want downtown. Be it historic like Eagle, or something like downtown Boise or some other community that created a specific kind of image that they want their downtown to look like when you get all through. An existing owner of property would look at a plan and he could renew his building to be consisted with what we want the City to look at in some point in the future. Bird: Ron, I believe the best way to answer that, as they bring up the value and do it, we still stay where we are. The other taxing entities get the value raised for their tax dollars to put back in it. Anderson: I don't think that's true. I think any Taxing Districts are all frozen. Bird: They're frozen but if you bring in a new building within that district -unless I misunderstood Phil the other day - if we were to put up a new $10,000,000 building down here we would get part of that, the City and them would. Allison: Let's have Clair Bowman answer that question for us. Bowman: Thank you Mr. President, members of the Council, Mayor. Perhaps the best way is to use a real example. If you have a piece of paper you might scratch down some numbers. Lets use the example that Rich talked about where a piece of property in the area would be currently be worth $200,000, and let's presume for a moment that you're total applicable tax rate is 1.8 percent. I think you're a little bit less than that but I used that as a round off. That would Meridian City Council Worksho~ January 9, 2001 Page 8 have a current tax bill of $3600 on it. That's total tax. That $3600 is split between the City, the school, the County, the Misquito Abatement District, and Emergency Medical Services. You've got two others, ACHD, and the Library District. Bird: The Ada Rec. Bowman: Yes, you have eight here don't you. It's split among those eight or nine Taxing Districts. I only have seven on -south here. Now lets suppose that that properties developed in the same way that Rich proposed it. The new assessed evaluation is 5 million dollars. Apply the 1.8-percent tax rate that generates a tax bill of $60,000 now. From that $60,000 they take $3600 and distribute it exactly as the $3600 is currently distributed. It goes to the school, the City, the County, ACHD and all of those in exactly the same proportions that it went to them before. The additional $56,400 goes to the Urban Renewal Agency for such period of time as the life of the Agency. If that life is fixed at 10 years then for 10 years they get that $56,400 or the appreciative value of that $56,400 if the property appraises more highly over the ten year period. At the end of the 10 years, let's say it has not appreciated, so we're talking still about a $60,000 a year tax bill for purposes of simplification. At the end of the 10 years in the 11th year, the $60,000 is now distributed back to the school, the City, the County, the Highway District, the Misquito Abatement District and so on. In the same proportion as they're - as their mill levy's are in the 11th year. That's how the distribution for a single property takes place. If there is only one property involved in the Urban Renewal District, that is the entire impact. Obviously that will not be the case, it will be more than that. It is the increment in the assessed evaluation that goes to the Urban Renewal Agency. All other agencies are frozen in terms of the receipts they get at the dollar amount that was in affect the day before -technically the day before, but in reality the assessed period before the Urban Renewal Agency is established. Bird: What about new buildings? 9th and Idaho is a good example. Bowman: New buildings, Mr. President will always be built on land that already has an evaluation to it. They would be treated essentially the same way. Bird: The City gets no part of the actual structure, they just get what the land was assessed at? Bowman: They get whatever the value was at the entry point into the Urban Renewal project district. You had the right term awhile ago Jim, Revenue Allocation District. Bird: Any questions? Anderson: No more questions I guess it's just a comment. I guess as I'm Meridian City Council Worksho~ January 9, 2001 Page 9 beginning to understand this a little better, what my concern about these Urban Renewal Districts is, is I understand that it's a good method to get something jump started and get something going in an area that's run down and needs revitalized. My concern is, as you bring in new development that that new developmen# requires services. It puts additional burden on the existing services that are out there from public safety to all the other things that are said he provides. The City doesn't get any additional revenues for these additional items. Does the Urban Renewal District then somehow help out with some of those additional needs that are generated from those new buildings and new developments that are occurring in that district. Johnson: They can. Whether they will or not in the initial stages who knows. If you have read the recent write up in the Statesman on CCDC and their successes, in there it mentions specifically money being paid back that they did not use on specific projects. Would we become a lending agency to the City? Probably not, I know no historical records for that happening. Unless our money is used then there are obligations to give that money back and there's pressures put on to give that money back. Can you lend anything to that? Nichols: Mr. Johnson, President Bird, Mayor, members of the Council, I'm not sure about the payback thing I'll take Mr. Johnson's comment as being true because he's a truthful fellow. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members.) Nichols: I retract that Statement Mr. President. If Kendra's writing it then it's accurate. I would say this though, I think one of the things that are important in looking at this whole subject and the process is that you form the Urban Renewal Agency first and they do their work. They have to come #o the Council with a plan. They have to come to the Council with a proposed Revenue Allocation Area. There have to be economic feasibility studies, there are -some places have taken the approach that they have avery -they cast a very large net. It's a wide net that goes out for the Revenue Allocation Area to take in all of this new growth and to drive the revenue from that new growth to fund the Urban Renewal Projects. Other places take more of a rifle shot approach and say we're going to have a Revenue Allocation Area that's smaller because our project is specific. We have this type of an area, here's what we thinks going to happen, here's how we are going to use the money, it's on a specific project. Nampa's proven renewal area -Revenue Allocation Area is huge. They have used those funds for a lot of different projects. It wasn't a rifle shot approach. Twin Falls, as I understand it; I don't have the specifics. Twin Falls has used this for different projects so they have a specific Revenue Allocation Area for a specific project. The Council also has some control over how these things are done because you can pass an Ordinance that basically says you are the board. You can unseat the Urban Renewal Board and say you're it. There are some controls that the City has over how these things are done. As far as -part of this is conceptual Meridian City Council Worksho~ January 9, 2001 Page 10 now in how the rubber meets the road, it is something the Committee or Commission would have to work on and come up with and say this is what we would like to do. Councilman Anderson is correct, that new growth would not be available as revenue for the City in its general fund until there is the expiration of that particular Revenue Allocation Area as part of a Urban Renewal Plan. Johnson: That's right and if I might add to that this case in point. The City of Boise has just launched their fourth Allocation District. Starting small, seeing the success, and then choosing another area when that's pretty well built out. They've even gone so far as to go outside City limits with their project. Speaking of a rifle shot, the best example that I know of and I don't know very many examples because I'm new at this as well -- we are all being educated in this process -- was Englewood Colorado. It was a very successful project. They took a dilapidated shopping center, which, because of competition became vacant. The last tenant there Montgomery Wards finally moved out and they took the rifle shot at that shopping center for their initial allocation area and totally developed that. It's a tremendous success story with lots of different buildings, and lots of multi-uses. We're not at the point where we can tell you what area we want specifically. We have heard that pit falls of getting too large of an area. We've also heard the down side to having too small of an area, for obvious reasons. If you have an area that's too small, there won't be enough growth to generate enough revenue to do anything. If your area's too big, then the City isn't going to benefit from the growth that would naturally take place because its market driven. That's why Urban Renewal, by law is specific about the criteria for eligibility. It has to be a deteriorating area or a deteriorated area of the City, and I think we can find those in Meridian. Corrie: Mr. President, at Cinderella City, my wife lived right across the street from where it was. Last time I was there -that is a beautiful place, that example that you use is very good. One of the things that I'm pressed is the fact that this Committee has gone to the CCDC. Phil, who I think talked to you before, gave you some ideas of pitfalls that you can see and also from Mr. (inaudible) has given you from Wells Fargo -- what it can be done. I would encourage the Council not to be afraid of Urban Renewal, be cautious like you are. I think if - with all the safeguards that's come (inaudible) -Meridian is growing and we do need this very badly I think. I think I would encourage you to look with somewhat of a favorable eye on this Committee that's being set up with the resolution as such. Bird: Mr. Johnson would any of your other members like to comment? Add, subtract? Johnson: Probably not at this point. We want to move forward, we can't move forward without your sanction. The resolution must be apparently the first thing and then followed up with the Appointment of a Board. With your blessing we would like to assume we're going to get the resolution and start providing you Meridian City Council Worksho~ January 9, 2001 Page 11 • with candidates for that bored, at least some. You wouldn't be bound by those only but we would like to see a board of somewhere between - in the area of five or six members. A workable board, not too small, not too large and people that are dedicated and interested in following the project for a few years. We're talking long term project here. There will be turnover in Board Members and certainly chairman. Anything else? Bird: Council you got any more? If not thank you Jim and your Committee. Johnson: Thank you for your time. Bird: We can't proceed on anything but we can certainly get started on it if that's the Council's desire. De Weerd: Mr. President, I think there has been an obvious commitment from the City Council because your Committee was formed. I know that it was a discussion that the City Council is interested in renewal in our old town area. I think that should be a sign of the commitment of the City that - I do believe too that we have monetarily supported it as well. The signs are there that we support it, we can't act today but I've read most of your minutes. I'm very impressed and all the background, and all of the effort you've been through. I like the Mayor has already done would like to thank you for all of the research and the information that we didn't know about that Rich came up with. It all shows a lot of promise and it just shows what can be done. It's pretty exciting. I would like to thank you all. Bird: Thank you Tammy. Council after talking to Mr. Nichols, I would like to, if we have no objections, I would like to see the attorney draft a resolution for our review. If there is no objections - I will ask that if there is no objections from you folks. De Weerd: I have none. Anderson: Mr. Chairman, I really don't have an objection. I guess I'm still just new enough to this and just learning enough about this tonight and I'm kind of taking some of the Mayors advice there. It sounds on the surface like this is a good thing and this is something that we want to proceed with. I'm a little bit optimistic and I want to move slowly and make sure that it is the right thing and make sure that it doesn't hamper the City or tie our hands in any other areas that we may be moving in. I would offer my support for the resolution and I want the Committee to push forward. I would like to know more about the specific size of the district we're talking about. I would like to know what it is -what our goal is. What we're trying to accomplish what areas are we trying to revitalize? Are we talking about a 10-year deal and then that expiring or are we talking about something that's going to continue on forever? There are just a lot of unknowns still in my mind. If the resolution will allow them to push forward without a full Meridian City Council Worksho~ January 9, 2001 Page 12 committal at this time, that's kind of what - Bird: The resolution just sets up your board, as I understand it. The Mayor appoints and we confirm the board and then they go ahead with what you're talking about. Each project Ron, has to be passed by the Council. De Weerd: Mr. President, one thing I would like to add to that Ron. In reading the minutes it looks like a lot of the renewal can be done through Ordinance changes, Committee processes, our permitted uses in the area. All of that will be taken into consideration when they draw their boundaries. What can be used and updating in our Comprehensive Plan, our Ordinances and our processes versus the actual establishment of the district? That needs more than just the changes to your Comprehensive Plan and Ordinances. I think they've already been spending and identifying a lot of that so again, they are doing some awesome homework and research. I have confidence -we'll be able to look at this more critically when they come back. Bird: With that we'll - if you'd do that Mr. Nichols. Thank you again Committee, very much. I appreciate all of the hard work and time spent. Issue #2 Discussion of Cooperative Agreement with ITD, ACHD and City of Meridian Bird: We'll go to Item No. 2 which is the Cooperative Agreement with ITD, ACHD and City of Meridian. That's on the Locust Grove overpass by the way. In your deals you've each got a contract sent to us by, I guess ITD. I don't know if anybody - we had received this -anybody had a chance. I don't know about you guys but Section 2, I didn't recall that we agreed to pay 1.8 million up front. It was up to 1.8 million for right-of-way. Right-of-way costs 1 million that's all we were going to pay. If it went over 1.8 they were going to pick it up. I didn't say we were going to all of a sudden just hand it to them. Corrie: That's correct we did not say that we were going to give them 1.8 million dollars up front. We said we'd use that to buy right-of-way. We can use the interest ourselves to make the right-of-way. I made that pretty plain to ACHD and how this one got in there this way I don't know. I think if the Council agrees with me, I think we better make sure that they got that change in the verbiage Bird: Before I would ever have an affirmative vote, Isure -it's not going to be like that. I think you had responded to the letter (inaudible) stating that. Evidently it didn't get. to the right people or this contract was already made up. Ron, do you recall that we said we would give 1.8 upfront? I thought it was up to 1.8 unless they purchased the right-of-way. Anderson: Mr. President, I had some real concerns when I saw this. I will admit that I've missed some of the meetings with ACRD. My recollection was that Meridian City Council Worksho! January 9, 2001 Page 13 • when we had been talking about an overpass at Locust Grove, the conversation had come up that the state was much more receptive if a partnership could be formed. You were more likely to get your project pushed forward on the agenda if you were willing to commit some funds. The number that kept sticking in my mind had been around 1 million dollars. My thought was, at the time we were talking about approval of some projects like Jabil and some of those types of projects. We were going to be asking them to dedicate some right-of-way and I was -not dedicate, donate. My thought was that it would be kind of an inkind match from the City of Meridian and that we could use some of that donated right-of-way as part of our commitment towards making this happen. I don't know as we've made those approvals of Jabil and some of those types of things, whether that right-of-way has been asked for or anything's been donated. I was really shocked when all of a sudden this came out and said that we were willing to commit 1.8 million dollars. Frankly I don't think we have 1.8 million dollars that we could just hand over to somebody. We have a tremendous amount of need in the City of Meridian that 1.8 million dollars could have gone a long way to solving those other things. I am very reluctant to sign this contract. I want an overpass at Locust Grove as much as anybody else but I think there needs to be some more discussion go on on this thing and see what other options are out there. We don't even know at this point what year it would be planned. How do we budget for something like that, what is our commitment going to be? Is it all going to be due upfront? Is it at the end of the project, all those types of things? I don't know whom we need to be talking to whether it's the state or ACHD but I have a lot of concerns about signing this contract. Bird: Cherie, what's your - McCandless: My recollection is up to 1.8 million but we didn't say that we would pay the full 1.8 million. Bird: Are you aye or naye on this contract? McCandless: I'm naye on the contract. Bird: Tammy (sic) aye or naye? De Weerd: Naye. Bird: Mayor I think you got your - Corrie: Well I think Mr. President -I've already sent a letter to the ACHD stating the very same thing and we're not going to give them a lump sum to the district or the right-of-way. I have a question for Gary if I may. Gary, that right-of-way may not even be 1.8 million or it may be that. When you and I were sitting down and figuring this out at one time I think 1.8 million was a little high. I still have a meeting with Jabil to talk with them to see if they would like to kick in some Meridian City Council Worksho~ January 9, 2001 Page 14 money as well for right-of-way purchase. They are going to be a beneficiary of that road as well and that avenue of approach is still coming. Bird: -- And Pete O'Neill, too; aren't you? Corrie: Yes I don't know whether we would get anywhere with Pete O'Niell but we might. I would be happy to talk to him. Jabil's the one I have a meeting with, with Dave Nubbins as well. We might be able to fix something but if I'm not mistaken Gary, we were looking at that right-of-way cost. It was somewhere, I thought maybe less than 1.8 million as on right-of-way purchase. Am I dreaming? Smith: Mr. Mayor and Council members, the only thing that I remember was (inaudible) prepared some information for us that showed the values of the properties adjacent to Locust Grove. There was some rough calculations done by ACHD's right-of-way department. They indicated that, I believe at the meeting we had with the ITD board, that morning at the main office on State Street, that the 1.8 million would be more than adequate in their opinion. The Highway District's opinion to purchase the necessary right-of-way for the structure and for the roadway. The biggest costs, as I understand it will be the embankment encroachment of the overpass to the existing residential property on the East Side of Locust Grove north of the interstate. A requirement for frontage road, and or possible buys out of those properties. That's a major expense but I don't know what the percentage of the total cost is. Bird: Anymore Mayor? Corrie: To be quite honest with you I wouldn't sign it anyway. Bird: I don't think we would pass on it with your recommendation. Corrie: Even if you passed on it I wouldn't sign it. Nichols: Mr. President, Mayor, members of the Council if I can, just to clarify, because if this is not acceptable -- the Highway District and ITD are going to want to know what is acceptable and I can't recall if I've seen your letter Mayor. For example, a concept that the City would reserve that amount and allow draws to be taken upon it as right-of-way was acquired, would that concept be acceptable to the Council members? Anderson: I would still like us to be able to trade in kind some other options. Other than just strictly cash from the City of Meridian, whether it's donated right- of-way that may come from future projects along that road or it's a contribution from Jabil itself. l wold like to see us have other options than just cash put up by the City of Meridian. Meridian City Council Worksh~ January 9, 2001 Page 15 • Bird: I agree with Ron. This was discussed at that meeting that if we could get inkind donations or get donations from that stuff - in fact we talked about the police property coming on through there getting those guys when the road comes on through to donate their right-of-way. That would be taken off any obligation money wise that we had. I ditto Ron's thoughts 100 percent. I don't think that we have to be tied up to exact dollars. I think that if we can find somebody that will donate their frontage, that should go as credit towards our - De Weerd: So in cash or donations? Bird: -- in cash or donations. Nichols: Council members, Mayor. What I'm looking for is, the Mayor has got to put something in writing back to ITD with this contract and say what's not acceptable and what would be acceptable, If - up to 1.8 million dollars in the form of cash and/or donations, dedications, or inkind contributions. With further provision that the City would reserve a certain amount perhaps, and allow draws upon that as right-of-way was acquired might be something that then you can do. If Jabil donates something that's worth $200,000, assuming the total right-of-way acquisition cost was 1.8 if they donate something that's worth $200,000. Now that acquisition cost has dropped to 1.6. You're correct, you don't want to have - here's a check for 1.8 million dollars, it's still the up to figure. It's still tied to this specific project, and to the extent you can get donations or reduction in -we'll take half of that in cash, and half of it in -we'll donate -take it at a reduced thing in order to get the tax write off, that sort of thing. We need some mechanism in the letter from the Mayor back to ITD so when they go to redraft that thing they're not trying to read the City's mind. That's why I'm asking for further clarification. Anderson: Mr. President, I think the way you worded that Bill, that would be fine with me. That it could be up to a dollar amount with cash or inkind donations. The other thing that I'm concerned about is the time frame in which they ask for that money. I believe the right-of-way is one of the first costs that you put, even before the design or anything else. I think as a City, what we need is some lead time, we need to know at least, in my opinion, two years in advance of when they're going to start to be doing any of those draws. If we sign this thing tomorrow and they come to us six months from now and say we're ready to buy all of that land we need your money, rather we have the ability to do that. At this point, there's no commitment from them on what year they're going to put up any money for the design of the project. There's no commitment from them on the year that they would build the project. We are expected or being expected to put up the money upfront for the land acquisition. Nichols: Mr. President, Councilman Anderson, Mayor, members of the Council, Gary might be able to fill us in on this. I think the process is this, if I recall I have heard before. They have to design it first in order to know what they have to acquire. Design comes first, acquisition is second, and the actual construction is Meridian City Council Worksho~ January 9, 2001 Page 16 third. That's why it's athree-year process from the time they start the design to the completion of the project. Did I recall that correctly Gary? Smith: Yes. Bird: If I might interject, the last I heard on that, that is federal money now. That's going to take it to a four-year project because it takes longer to design it because there's federal money involved in it? That's what we were told Gary, am I misunderstanding? Smith: I don't recall the time period based on the federal requirements but it is a more involved process there's no doubt about that. Part of this project is going to have to be designed under the metric requirements because of the federal funding. They haven't established the scope yet for the design and so they haven't established the cost of the design. With the federal requirements or the federal money the requirements go up. Along with that you can tie time to it. Bird: I think somewhere, they said it at a meeting I was at or something that it would go instead of a three year project it would be a four year. Maybe this was at the meeting that yourself and the Mayor and I were at with ITD and ACHD down there that one day last spring. That if the federal come in - I agree with Councilman Anderson that why should we let them take our 1.8 million and sit in their reserve fund and draw interest on it. It's gong to be two years down the road before they ever buy a piece of ground. Nichols: Mr. President, Mayor, members of the Council, then maybe something that's in the Mayor's letter in there has to be a definitive time, line on the part of ITD and ACHD as to when they expect to begin their right-of-way acquisition process. Bird: True. I think you and the Mayor can decide something. Corrie: I'm sure that the attorney can write a good letter, I'll scrutinize it. Bird: Do we have any other discussion on this, Council, Mayor? Issue #3 Discussion of Investigation of Applicant Ordinance Bird: We'll go onto Item No. 3, the Investigation of Applicant Ordinance believe that would be you Mr. Nichols. Nichols: Mr. President, Mayor, members of the Council, this is something that's been kicking around for quite along time. There are actually a couple of them and it may - I have to refresh my memory here. It looks to me like what we've simply done with this one, and Pauline can correct me if I'm wrong. It seems to me that what we've done in this particular Ordinance is simply add or actually Meridian City Council Worksho~ January 9, 2001 Page 17 we've just taken out the all new City Employees Provision and renumbered everything. Is that correct Pauline? It's just an amendment of the existing ordinance? Skeggs: Yes, which is correct, that all City employees excluding the Police Law Enforcement are put into HR Ordinance. They took it out of all City employees and they put it in the Ordinance, which I think it's number 5. Bird: It's No. 8. Nichols: President Bird, I think what she's referring to may be No. 5 on the agenda. Skeggs: Issue No. 5 on the agenda. Bird: The rest stays in Pauline? Skeggs: Yes, the rest stays in. That's done through the Police Department. The only thing they took out was all new City employees. De Weerd: I want to know what No. 8 is. Bird: Pauline, would you explain No. 8 to us? (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Bird: Council, you got any questions for this, the change of it is evidently just to eliminate that all new City employees which goes into the HR Ordinance? De Weerd: I have nothing. Bird: Council Anderson do you have anything? Anderson: No. Bird: Councilwoman McCandless? McCandless: Nope Bird: Councilwoman De Weerd? De Weerd: I still don't have anything. Bird: Mayor? Corrie: Sounds good. Meridian City Council Worksho~ January 9, 2001 Page 18 Bird: Get this retyped and taken care of. Issue #4 Discussion of Background Check for Fire Fighters Applicants Bird: Item No. 4, discussion of Background Check for Fire Fighter applicants. I believe - do you want to handle that, Pauline? Skeggs: That also will be covered in Item No. 5. Bird: So we can skip to Item 5. Issue #5 Discussion of H R Department Ordinance Bird: Item No. 5, that's the HR Ordinance. Now you're on the hook. Skeggs: Mayor, Council members, the HR Ordinance was done last year and we had made changes to it. Then it was put on hold in June because of the budget process. We never got around to putting it on a Council meeting agenda for approval. Since we're in the process of recruiting Fire Fighters and as part of that process, Chief Bowers wants the criminal background check for his applicants who are made in offer of employment. We need to get this approved because in order for me to set it up with the Idaho State Police to do the background checks, we have to have an Ordinance in place. Bird: Counselor you got anything that we should look for in this Ordinance that could bite us? Nichols: Mr. President, Mayor, members of the Council, again this is one that's been kicking around for quite a long time. I think the first draft was done by Mr. Gigray and then there were - I think one of the next changes was to essentially segregate out the Law Enforcement personnel checks and give that to the Chief of Police for him to do those. The Police Officers are a different category. This actually should have been done quite a long time ago. It creates the position of Human Resources Director and sets out some of those duties in the Ordinance. The second part of that is how the criminal background check -how those are going to be done. It sounds like Chief Bowers wants added -well we've got under (inaudible) positions require an employee to work on or around fire vehicles and/or patient care. We added that in. Bird: Are we ready to go then? Nichols: I believe it is other than changing the date on the last page. De Weerd: Kenny, have you looked at this? Is everything, you want in it? Meridian City Council Worksho~ January 9, 2001 Page 19 Bowers: This is the first time I've seen this to my knowledge that sentence there. Bird: That's what you want to see? Skeggs: Kenny that was one that Joe had written on it. He had gotten a copy from the Mayor and made that change and so I added that in because I knew we were going to put it on the agenda. Bowers: Thank you Pauline. Bird: Council? Mr. Anderson do you want to put it forward as it is? Anderson: We can't act on it tonight. Bird: We can ask the Mayor tonight to put it on the agenda for the 16t", if you have no objections. Anderson: I have no problems, I'm sorry. Bird: Councilwomen McCandless, any objections? McCandless: So far none. De Weerd: I have none. Bird: Mayor? Corrie: I'll put it on. Bird: Would you put it on the 16tn~ Corrie: You got it. Issue #6 Discussion of Fee Structure for P & Z Applications, Permits, etc. Bird: Item No. 6, discussion of Fee Structure for Planning and Zoning Applications, Permits, et cetera. I believe we got that Fee Structure handed out to us tonight is that it Shari? Would you like to take the microphone? Stiles: Mr. President, Mayor and Council, the first page of your three-sheet handout is the existing fee that we charge currently. The next two pages are their proposed fees, with the exception of one line on the accessory use permit. If it's underlined it's a new fee, if just the dollar amount is underlined that's a new fee. If the entire line is underlined, that's a whole new fee that we haven't previously collected any money for and have no applications for. Probably the biggest change would be the Planned Developments because we're getting such Meridian City Council Worksho~ January 9, 2001 Page 20 a -most of the projects coming in even the residential projects are the Planned Developments. They take significantly more time for our staff to review. We've learned with Woodbridge that practically every home on the lot is requiring additional review by both our staff and the Building Department staff. That would be the biggest increase. We want to start charging for the certificate of Zoning Compliance as other jurisdictions do. We have done a review of our existing fees in regard to our budget expenses and when you bring in the $9,750 a month with the attorneys fee I don't believe there's any way possible you can recoup all of your costs through fees. We do get money through the Building Department, through the Building Permit Fees and we can balance out our budget that way. When it came to trying to actually equate these to an actual dollar cost it became very difficult to do that. It's more a reflection of competitive prices in relation to Boise City, Ada County and what they are charging on their application. That's where most of these numbers came from. I just ask that you maybe review them. I'm not asking for any kind of approval I know we have to go through the Public Hearing process. Maybe after Gary gets a chance to look at it, he can think of something that he thinks should be added or taken out or handled through the Building Department. This is our shot at it. If you have any input for me and want to see some more detail on how these are broken out, what our costs were maybe over the last year, the number of applications we had and the fees that were charged, I can do that too. It's kind of a simplistic approach I've taken to it but I just want to hear - Bird: Shari, I think that for our Public Hearing, and I appreciate this, your work and effort of getting this out, that you will need to have the backup formula. However you do it, or something for the public if - I'm sure that will be brought forward and as you know by states statues we can only, we've got to back up - if we raise the fees over. Thank you again, I appreciate this. It's very nice. De Weerd: Mr. President, I do know this kind of came up in the (inaudible) meetings and maybe that's a group or through the BCA that you can run some of these recommendations through. I do know that with our Landscape Ordinance that they came in the 11th hour once we got it through Public Hearings. I would much rather have all of that debated before we go into that so we have a really good firm foundation to support these fees, if you can run that through them. Stiles: I will. Bird: Councilman Anderson, do you have anything? Anderson: Yes, I just had a question. What is a sign program, and what's the $150 fee there? Stiles: That would be in lieu of going through the Conditional Use Process when they came there to have all of their signs detailed as part of that Conditional Use Process that I know that you aren't particularly interested in looking at signs. Meridian City Council Worksho~ January 9, 2001 Page 21 Maybe you are Ron. It would be mostly for a planned development for a commercial center, for an industrial park, for a review of the signs for the entire development rather than going through part of the public hearing process. It would just be a staff level review. Anderson: Is there some type of criteria? I'm just thinking of the little mom-and-pop guy that just has a real simple sign that isn't going to require any significant amount of staff time. That you would be charging him $150 to go, yeah, that's great. Fine. Stiles: No, it would be for larger developments, it wouldn't be for individual signs. The sign permit would still apply for individual signs. This would be like the Family Center, the Crossroads Center, probably something like where Western Electronics is. Something with some acreage that - De Weerd: Multiple signs. Stiles: Yes, so that they can get it all approved in one fell swoop instead of having to come through one sign at a time. Bird: Any other questions for Shari? Berg: Shari, I just have a question. We took away the certified mailing add-ons, are we not charging them for any of the other first class mailing? Stiles: We wanted to get rid of individual -right now we're charging 34 cents per mailing so we have to count up how many mailings it will be, is it one or two mailings. It takes us more time to figure out how much they owe than you get from it. That's another reason for the increase is lumping those mailing fees in with the whole filing fee so they won't have to figure out an additional charge. Berg: It's also more labor intense, the more mailings you have. (Inaudible). Stiles: The other jurisdictions don't charge separately for mailing. Berg: The other question is the notices in the paper. The increase takes care of that, and the final publication for the Annexation Ordinance is all lumped in to that? Stiles: That should be part of it yes. Berg: Thank you. Stiles: I am still waiting for some breakdown of the attorney's fees so I can come up with some justification for these fees too. Even though it's not going to be a total payback, something that breaks down those fees so we can show where Meridian City Council Worksho~ January 9, 2001 Page 22 that money's going and where the time's being spent for Planning and Zoning. Bird: Mrs. McCandless do you have any questions? McCandless: Not at the moment. Bird: Mayor? Mayor: No. Bird: Councilwoman de Weerd? De Weerd: No. Bird: Thank you Shari very much. If you would get me another copy, I'll give my copy to the attorney so that he could look it over. Stiles: Okay. Issue #7 Discussion of Sewer & Water Connections Outside the City Limits Bird: Discussion of Water and Sewer Connections outside the City limits. Is that Mr. Smith? Smith: Thank you Mr. President, Mayor and Council. At one of our workshops, Councilman Anderson asked that I prepare a Proposed Amendment to the existing Ordinance concerning approval of sewer and water connections typically to single-family residential units outside of the City limits of Meridian. Presently, the Ordinance requires that the person requesting connection, present their request to City Council for approval. You have in, most all cases that I can recall, approve these connections based on recommendations from the Public Works Department. Councilman Anderson's request had to do with eliminating the need to bring this before the Council for your approval or for your decision and leave the decision in the Public Works Department. I made a copy of the Ordinance existing for this connection and lined out some parts of the Ordinance that would remove the necessity to bring this before the City Council for approval and place that decision making process in the Public Works Department with the Public Works Director. Bird: Thank you Gary. Any questions Council? De Weerd: Mr. President, I just noted that at the end you did say add an appeal process? Smith: Yes ma'am. Meridian City Council Worksho~ January 9, 2001 Page 23 De Weerd: That would take care of anything that people had in addition to, if you denied it? Smith: Yes, correct. De Weerd: Thank you. Corrie: Mr. President, is this just water? Smith: Water and sewer Mr. Mayor. Corrie: This doesn't address sewer, I suppose it will have to address sewer but you're addressing only water in this I see. Bird: Mine says sewer service. Corrie: I know but it's addressing - in here it's only addressing water. Smith: Correct, Icopied -Ordinance No. 852 addresses both sewer and water. When I copied this and split the Ordinance up and put it in my codebook, I just copied the portion of water for the water use section of the Ordinance and the portion for sewer for the sewer use section. Unfortunately I just copied one of those to give to you so you're correct Mr. Mayor, that should be water and sewer. Corrie: I have one other question. Being water and sewer is this only on private residence, not commercial land? We've got one coming to the Council, it's commercial and it's outside the City limits. Would that eliminate the Council from hearing that? You can say aye or naye and they can appeal it but is this just - I think my recollection was correct. Mr. Anderson correct me if I'm wrong, but this was primarily for each individual places that had problems, they didn't have to come to the Council each time. Does this Ordinance bypass all of that and say anybody that wants to do that? I guess that's where I'm coming from. Bird: You're asking if a development and I don't believe - a development would come through and that water and sewer at that time would be in the development plan that would come forward. Am I not right? Smith: Mr. President, Mayor and Council, if it's in the County we wouldn't' see it. They could, of course petition us for service, and I think you're right Mr. Mayor, that's probably something that should not be left at my desk. Corrie: I wouldn't think you'd want it. Smith: Right, and I think what we were trying to accomplish with this change is to eliminate a need for an individual residential unit presently on sewer septic tank or domestic well that needs to connect to a City sewer or water system that's Meridian City Council Worksho~ January 9, 2001 Page 24 adjacent to their property. Bird: I was going to say that it's already there by it, not running the sewer to it. Smith: Correct. Summer's Funeral Home may be a good example of the issue that you're raising Mr. Mayor, where we had to extend a water line to them and allow their connection there in the County. Corrie: Right, but also by doing this Ordinance, Counselor, does that repeal Ordinance 852 and then make this one take it's place then everything falls upon the director of the waste water -- Public Director? What I'm thinking, we have got one coming up, it's - Mr. Ferd knows what I'm talking about. It's coming up that they're going to be in the County not in the City limits but they're going to request water and sewer that's going right by the property. Does that say that the Council can't make that decision or it's being made by the Public Works Director? Nichols: Mr. Mayor, Mr. President, members of the Council, this would put it all at the Public Works Director's desk in this current draft. There is, perhaps a different approach that we could take to this and that would be to put in a special section which is limited to residents' of not more than four ERU's or something like that that would be a shorter process. I apologize to Gary -for not looking at this before tonight. That might be a way to do it to where we say, for the individual like the Pemberton's that came, and say that one Gary can approve. Somebody else that comes in that's got a larger development that still has to come to the Council. That's going to eliminate all of these littler ones, Grandma's septic system that's failed, but still allow the Council to review the ones that would have a greater impact. l think we could also, one of the ways that we could do it would be that you could give the Public Works Director the discretion to say, I'm not going to pass on this one, it's going to have to go to the Council. He could say, I'm not sure about this one and I want the Council to review it. Gary and I probably better sit down and see if we can rework this. I guess the question is, do you like the concept here of Gary being able to sign off on single residents or a duplex or something like that? Bird: Councilman Anderson can tell me if I'm offbase but I as I understood it when he brought this forward he was saying the ones we've approved already that's come before us, the mom and pops, they've already got the water and sewer line running down the street to them. What the Mayor's talking about is this development is going to ask for us to come across and expand our sewer to their deal so they can have access. As I understood it, Councilman Anderson, that if the sewer and water was already there, there's no sense to bring it to us. The Public Works Director should be able to say aye or naye right? Is that what you had in mind? It wasn't to run sewer or water to an area? Anderson: Right, I think I was looking more at the single residential use. That may include an actual extension of the sewer but it may be at the cost of the Meridian City Council Worksho~ . January 9, 2001 Page 25 homeowners or something else through a latecomer. Bird: Yes, but not a 3 or 400 footer a three mile - Anderson: Yes but we're not talking about great distances. I was just trying to think as the Mayor brought up that topic, whether that could be extended to some commercial businesses. If it was just a single business and wasn't a large use, I really wouldn't have any problem with it on a commercial business with the same criteria. We're telling them that as soon as -possibly you have to apply for annexation and if you're contiguous, be annexed into the City. I think in those cases where they're not, if somebody wants us to extend it outside the City and their not contiguous in those decisions there ought to be a provision in this Ordinance. Like the Counselor said, allow that to come before the City Council. Bird: I believe that Gary and Bill can get together and write up one for us to review, I'm sure that would be acceptable. Any other questions? Smith: Mr. President, we would need to include the agreement for annexation as part of this Ordinance I would think too so they know. Thank you. Issue #8 Discussion of Permissive Encroachment Agreement Bird: The Permissive Encroachment Agreement. Who's handling that? Anderson: Who knows what it is? Bird: I know what it is, but are you taking care of that, Mr. Nichols? Nichols: Yes, the file is so thick I can't even get it out of the box. This is the - you will recall the Generations Plaza. The building that encroached a whole four inches at one end of the lot line, and I think an inch and three quarters at the other end of the lot line. The stem wall was already, the foundation was in and the wall was going up. I was directed to prepare an Encroachment Agreement whereby -it's like a Party Wall Agreement that would allow this building to be in the same place. Now it's extended all the way out to the alley, but essentially the same line where the old building was which slightly encroaches on to City property. That's what I've done, I've prepared that permissive encroachment agreement. That's it, that's was pursued to your direction. Bird: Council? Anderson: I'm just glad to have it. Bird: Me too. Mayor, if we can't get anything out of the Council, maybe the Mayor can say something. Meridian City Council Worksho~ January 9, 2001 Page 26 Corrie: I read it, I think it's (inaudible) appropriate. De Weerd: No comment. Bird: No comment? Would you guys put that down on record? Tammy didn't have a comment. Do we need to get that on the agenda? Nichols: Mr. President, Mayor, members of the Council. I think what we had in mind was that now you've had a chance to look at it we can put it on the Consent Agenda. We can do that, we can send it to them for signature, they're happy with it and then when the signed one's back it's on the Consent Agenda and we can approve it. Bird: Okay Mayor? Corrie: Yes. Issue #9 Discussion of Revenues from Parking Fines, Animal Control Fines and Idaho Power Franchise Fees Bird: Next Item, Discussion of Revenues from Parking Fines, Animal Control Fines and Idaho Power Franchise Fees. Janice is that your expertise? Smith: I brought some history. De Weerd: We knew you must be sticking around for something. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members.) Bird: Janice if you would like to explain some things. J. Smith: I didn't put this on the agenda so I don't know if the police are here but I brought some history. I saw it on this agenda so I showed up. Bird: I believe that the Chief and -Shari was that to ask about this? Stiles: Yes. Bird: Which one of you want to? Gordon: Mr. Mayor and Council, President, this was an issue. A couple of these points were issues two years ago with the parking fines and the Animal Control fines being used to fund some of the expenses on the pound and also on the Parking Ordinances. It just kind of never went anywhere and I was curious how do you want to proceed? It was of interest two years ago. There was going to be a resolution drawn up the last that I remember it and that just never took Meridian City Council Worksho. January 9, 2001 Page 27 place. I guess where I'm at now is, yes we have some things out at the pound that need to be fixed in addition to budget items. Using the money that we collect to fix those items would probably be money well spent. It's revenue now, and it is accounted for on my budget. I guess I'm just looking for direction here. How do you guys want to proceed with that? Do you want to do that or do you want to just leave it the way it is? Anderson: I'm curious what you're asking for. You're asking for additional money above your budget? Gordon: No -well, yes, I would be. That would be the money that comes in on the fines would go -well like the franchise fee, it's dedicated money and it's split between the fire and police. This would be -the fined money for the animal controls fines would be marked strictly for animal control, which would be building maintenance. Bird: This would be like the $21,000 that you received this year's revenue? Dogs license and impound fees? You want that taken out and just strictly out of the budget and just go into maintenance? Gordon: Yes. Bird: Electric -and then the franchise fee the same way from the Idaho Power? Gordon: The franchise fee, originally, the way I understood it was to be set aside for police and fire, just like the Fire Truck Fund was and to be used for one time purchases. It didn't -there was either an error in the Ordinance or something when it was drawn up. The way it turned out is that money goes into the general fund and offsets our budgets. Anderson: In my understanding was that it would be dedicated for public safety but I don't recall anything about one-time purchases. It was just that it would be specifically used for public safety. Bird: That it would be split and go in that public safety to budgets and that was revenue shown in their budgets that was not specified for (inaudible). That's the way I understood it. Gordon: The one time purchase I was looking at, the Fire Truck Fund. Single items that were more than what you would budget for in a one-year period. Like the building would be a good example or the generator or something for the police building. Somehow the Ordinance didn't get done the way it was intended to be done. It goes into the general fund and it's used to offset our existing budgets, both fire and police. I guess my question is there, are we going to leave it that way or do you want to put it back the way, I can't say originally intended because I don't know what your wishes are. It's up to this Council. Meridian City Council Worksho• January 9, 2001 Page 28 Bird: Well I would have to read the Ordinance, Chief, myself. I never interpreted and I did vote on it as Ron voted on it, on the Franchise Fee now the other ones - that was just to make sure that any Idaho Power Franchise Fee that came in was split as revenue for the fire and police evenly. That's the way I understood it. They weren't for one -it's just like the Fire Fund, Kenneth takes so much out of his budget each year to put that in, it doesn't (sic) come from any special fund or anything like that, it's a budgeted item for Fire Truck Fund or replacement part. That's the way I understood it, and that's the way, I believe the Ordinance reads. That's the way it was presented to me. Gordon: That's the way you intended it to be but correct me if I wrong Janice, but that's not the way it was written up. Smith: The way it's written up it's Ordinance No. 800. It is to go for the Fire and Police Emergency Area. As we talked the last two years it's in there as revenue, it has to be in on your budget and know that. We've set with the Police Department this year and we did separate it this year showing that much for police and that much for the fire. If you have a dedicated purpose for it, you need to set it aside like Kenny has on the Fire Truck Fund itself. It's for operating, it does not say set aside for a special purpose. I've also got copies of some comments in here too that I could make copies and give to the -because I've researched this and it's never said to set aside. It's not restricted funding. It's for operating, personnel, whatever you as your department say. I know maybe it's big -- $54,000 maybe it's (inaudible). Gordon: (inaudible) and that's what I'm saying. Originally it was designed as a Fire Truck Fund, that was the way I understood it was going to. J. Smith: Then you would have to put in there if you wanted to, put an expense number for police fund or whatever to set it aside. Like Kenny's is set aside for the Fire Truck Fund and it's built up until they can have enough money. If you have a dedicated purpose maybe you and your commissioner there would have a dedicated purpose for it being a big capital expense to set it aside in the future. The Council would have to approve that. Gordon: Yes, and that would be a budgeted item which would be operating and offset my budget. I guess the way I see it is we're using it to supplant taxes and that was - I don't believe that was the understanding of the Franchise Ordinance when it was passed. Bird: That's what I understood it as. I understood it as whatever extra we were going to throw into the budget, to the budget revenue of the police and fire out of the Franchise Fee. We could have taken the Franchise fee and threw it into the parks but we said that with this Franchise which Glenn Bentley brought forward that motion was to throw it in 50-50 into the revenue. I didn't recall anything Meridian City Council Worksho• January 9, 2001 _ Page 29 • being aone-time purchase or extra revenue for your budget or anything else. It was part of the revenue within the budget that's the way I understood it Chief. Corrie: The one time purchases, let's throw that out. Gordon: I guess the way I've always viewed and the way Kenny and I have done the budgets is that both the police and fire -we're never going to bring in as much income as what it costs to operate our department. When you look at the total income of fire, on this sheet it shows $701,000, and police is $572,000 but when you look at our budgets they're much higher than that. The fire this year is $2,586,000 and police is $7,000,000. The argument can be made that every bit of that Franchise Fee is going into operating the Police and Fire Department. Every bit of your revenues that you collect and any fees for the dog pound or anything else are going in there plus a whole bunch of tax dollars and sales tax and everything else to supplement that. I never really viewed it that anything that we make in our department should be an extra dollar amount that we should get above and beyond our normal budgets, I guess is kind of how I've always done the budgeting. I was here when we had that other motion and when Glenn made the motion. There was nothing specifically about a Capital Improvement fund or a dedicated fund other than it would go towards police and fire. I think it is plus a lot more. That's my opinion of it. Corrie: l think they could have dedicated it to the Mayor's office for $108,000 and then they wouldn't have to give me any money. It would be $108,000 in my office whether I use it or not. It's all coming from the general fund. It all depends on how you look at it Chief. De Weerd: What are you asking for? Bird: I know we should have given it to the Council. Corrie: It makes no difference who we give it to but it all comes out of (inaudible) because it's all tax money. Anderson: To me it's just an extra book keeping thing so if we said okay well you collected a certain (sic) amount for the Dog Fees alright we'll give you those but we're going to not use that same dollar amount of property taxes to fund your department too. It would be offsetting. The money is being used in your department plus a whole bunch more. It's difficult to say any money that we make we ought to get in addition because we're definitely, we're not abreak- even revenue for the City, Police Department. De Weerd: Mr. President, Chief, I think right now with the substation coming in the new Police Department being built, it's an ideal time to start evaluating a safety impact fee. That's all on existing -that would go only to capital, that's a dedicated fund. That's something that the two of your departments might Meridian City Council Worksho~ • January 9, 2001 Page 30 consider starting to work on and research. It is being done in the state of Idaho, and that might be something that could help you achieve some of those things that you need to do capital wise, and one time expenditures and building. Particular with substations Kenny, it would be probably something that would be helpful for your department in particular. Yours, for capital expenditures, that's what it's for. That is a dedicated fund like a fire truck fund or the park impact fee. It's something that you may want to do some research on, the two of your departments and see if there's a way that might be a possibility. Corrie: Do it within the next two weeks, I'm having a committee meet and we're going to discuss Police and Fire Impact Fees. If you would like to have it let me know before next week. McCandless: Mr. President, I have a question of Janice. You have the Parking Fines and forfeitures listed as police revenue. You don't have anything listed on the dog-licensed etc. J. Smith: Yes, it's listed right below it. McCandless: It's right below it but I just didn't see the police revenue after it. J. Smith: Police revenue? McCandless: Well it is on the Parking Fines. J. Smith: Everything's added together. McCandless: Okay, sorry. Bird: Did you have something? J. Smith: No. If they had any questions on this - we had problems with our printer. I was going to do some graphs but our printer wasn't working. Anderson: Mr. Mayor? McCandless: That's Mr. President. Anderson: No I wanted to talk to Mr. Mayor, I'm not confused about who I want to talk to. You indicated that you have a Committee meeting in the next couple of weeks on that? Corrie: The Impact Fee Committee. Anderson: Could I be involved in that, I'm extremely interested in it. Meridian City Council Worksho~ January 9, 2001 Page 31 Corrie: Sure you can sit in on it. If you want to be on the Committee, I was on the Committee ahead of time. We can have one Councilperson if you would like to do that I certainly will. They're going to be on the Committee, I'll tell you the time. Anderson: You'll let me know who they are and .what time? Corrie: Yes. De Weerd: Mr. President, Ron the Impact Fee Committee that's meeting is one to oversee all Impact Fees. On particular it was set up to oversee the Park Impact Fee. I think what the Mayor referred to is it will look at the possibility of new Impact Fees and the Safety Impact Fee is certainly one that we need to be looking at. I don't want to be there. Bird: While we're on Impact Fees how are we coming on our Ada County park Impact Fee that was encrusted for Mr. Kuntz to do a year ago. Do you have any idea Mr. Mayor? Corrie: I think it's in the hands of the Commissioner, I'll find out tomorrow. I already talked to Roger Simmons and also Grant Kingsford about it. It's in their hands so I'll call them in the morning. Bird: Thank you. Gordon: Are you done with me, you answered my question. McCandless: I just had one question is that -are your questions answered on this particular one. Gordon: We started, I say we the Council started on this like I say a couple of years ago and it just never went anywhere. I think you answered it tonight, it was unfinished business. J. Smith: Excuse me Mr. President, Members of the Council, Mayor. Is this Impact Fee meeting -will it address or can it address Capital Expenditures for. Sewer and Water Facilities? Has that ever been discussed? Corrie: No, this is just strictly Impact Fees on parks and also police and fire. That's all it takes into account by the state. That's the only Impact Fees you can charge for right now. J. Smith: Is that by the State Legislature? That's State Law, so sewer and water are excluded from Impact Fees? Corrie: Yes, from that particular fee. You have a fee that you charge sewer hookups, water hookups, and all of that that comes in a different form. This is on Meridian City Council Worksho~ January 9, 2001 Page 32 r~ the development for each lot that there's an Impact Fee. Parks Impact Fee that they must pay for every lot that comes on line. We can also have it for police and fire but we did it a few years ago (sic), it wouldn't pay us. It cost us more almost to do it as what we were getting. Now I think it's maybe turned around, that's what the Committee's going to look at, the state formula and go and see if it's feasible to charge those fees and give us more money. It's only in those three things. J. Smith: has there been any discussion about sewer and water Impact Fees for - Corrie: On that Committee? J. Smith: -- in the State Legislature? Corrie: In the State? I don't know, I don't think so. You're already set up for Water and Sewer Impact Fees. You charge an Impact Fee. Bird: No, they charge a Trunk Fee. Trunk Line Fee and you can - a hookup - Boise charges their Trunk Line Fee on every building permit regardless of what area it's in. De Weerd: And the hookup? Bird: Not the hookup. They have a Trunk Line Fee; I don't know what it's called. I think Gary's got the formula it's a different deal. That's what we need to get implemented in Meridian. J. Smith: We've been doing a lot of investigating on that and there are some problems with that as we see it. I was just curious about the word Impact Fee because it's a new development requirement. Corrie: It's not a requirement unless the City does it. They don't have to pay any fee unless the City implements a Park Impact Fee to help build new parks. They can't do this for old parks but any new parks, and same way with the police and fire. New fire buildings, new trucks and that type of thing. That's all this Committee does. It's all that's in charge there from the State. I'll check on it for you Gary, Idon't - I guess I can call one of the Legislative Offices and see if there's any such thing as Impact Fees on water and sewer. I can do that. They're in session so I'll call them. Bird: Any other questions? Issue #10 Discussion of Back Flow /Cross Connection Ordinance Bird: If not we'll move onto the Back Flow and Cross Connection Ordinance. I Meridian City Council Worksho~ January 9, 2001 J Page 33 think that's you or do you want Joel? J. Smith: I think Joel is prepared to make a presentation today Mr. President and Council members. De Weerd: I thought he was just here to be entertained. Corrie: At least you don't snore if you go to sleep. We had one back there one night that was snoring. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Herron: Mr. President, Mr. Mayor, members of the Council, I sent in July a request for an Ordinance change to legal. That's what has been presented to you tonight to look at. In those requests, I'll address each one of those line by line and explain why I feel that those are necessary to change. I'll try to give you the Reader's-Digest version. Anytime you talk to an engineer or a specialist you know how they can become so I'll try to give you the Reader's Digest version of this material. Hopefully the requests that I made to - I just got this information this morning they told me that I was going to do this tonight so if I'm not quite as prepared as I should be I apologize. The first thing that t asked for was an adoption of the Pacific Northwest AWWA Cross Connection Control Manual as part of our Ordinance. The reason why I ask that is in the Clean Water Regulations, they have adopted the Pacific Northwest AWWA as part of their requirements to Water Operators. The State Plumbing Bureau has also adopted the Pacific Northwest AWWA as part of their regulations for plumbers. I had a long conversation with Joe Meyer today from the State Plumbing Board. Meridian is very, very unique as we have our own Plumbing Inspector rather than State doing our inspections. The way theirs is written (sic) up, we need to adopt that into ours so we become compliant with their regulations. That's why I have asked for that request. It's more of a housekeeping thing than anything else. The second item we needed to change is where, in our Ordinance we have back- flow preventors that can be located in vaults. Since the time that this was adopted back in the 80's or whenever it was adopted, I don't have all of the original dates. Vaults have become almost in-existent. There are a number of things that happen with vaults. Vaults by nature of vaults become very volatile. They build up gases, which (sic) are a real problem. OSHA has now got huge standards for vault in confined space requirements. What I would like to see is the vault part of our Ordinance changed. A prime example of this which Kenny and I have just had to address. We have a relatively new facility, two-year-old in our community, large corporate facility. We sent them out their test notices that we are required to do by DEQ, they didn't even know this device existed. We finally located the vault, the vaults stand full of water, has equipment hooked up to the test caulks, and they had to spend almost $1500 before they could even climb into the vault to test the device. The owner ,asked me for my recommendations and my instant recommendation was to get rid of the vault. It's Meridian City Council Worksho~ January 9, 2001 Page 34 very, very dangerous and it needed to be done away with, this is atwo-year-old facility. We have one other one in the community and it too has serious problems, which I have not addressed yet but will as time allows. That's why I'm asking for that second requirement. We can go to hot boxes; the units are above ground. When they're getting ready to do the fire test annually on it each year, they can get to it very easily. Their Cross Connection Control people can come in and do the testing on it very easily. What was going to be close to $1500 to test it by the time they got done this year, next year can be done for $2250. It gravely reduces the cost to the citizens, the business people of our community and it's - to me again it's a housekeeping thing. We just need to clean up for the future. It also deals with all of the OSHA standards. The third item that we have is the capability to terminate. DEQ, and I'll pass this information out to you, submit a copy of it so you have it for your records. This also addresses the original Item No. 1 as far as publications. The first page talks about the reference manuals, they have adopted it therefore we just come into that and we adopt it into ours as well. Again, you can see on page two, it talks about the AWWA. Page three, I'm going to spend a little bit of time on this, or it's actually page 34 in the book but It's page three in the material handout. As I put together a Cross Connection Control Program for the City, these are the requirements that I have from DEQ. Cross Connection, all suppliers of water for community water systems shall implement a Cross Connection Control Program to prevent the entrance of toxic or hazard substances to the system. The program will include; inspection once a year of all facilities listed in subsection 900.02, table two to locate Cross Connections and determine required suitable protection. As part of my program we are now and many of you have probably heard by now, that we're doing site surveys. It's caught the public by surprise to say the least. Many of our corporate people are now becoming aware that this is part of our program, many of them are very familiar with it because they've come from larger communities. We're now getting invitations from corporate people in the community to do surveys in their facilities. They want it done immediately. Jabil has called me, the minute that they take over their plant they want me in there. They want to make absolutely sure that their people are protected, their system is protected. We just finished a major survey with another one of our corporate people and they asked us to remain anonymous. We wound up putting 14 devices in that facility and it's two years old. Cross Connection Control is something that people do not understand but need to take very, very seriously. That's why you've hired me to do it. Item No. 3 on (inaudible) Item B, requires installation and operation of adequate back-flow prevention devices, a list of minimum recommended devices for various facilities is also provided in subsection 900.02. When I do a survey, I make a recommendation of those people, of what equipment is necessary, and then we give them a time frame that that equipment needs to be installed within. That equipment then has to be tested, that also is in compliance with AWWA standards. The minute that piece of equipment goes in, AWWA says it must be tested. The last item there says the discontinuance of service to any facility or suitable back-flow protection has not been provided for Cross Connection. This is something our Ordinance didn't Meridian City Council Worksho~ January 9, 2001 Page 35 give us. As many of you have probably heard by now, we've run up against this. We're mandated by DEQ to terminate them to protect our system. I'd need to have you add that to the Ordinance, so I've got our legal process covered on that, so we've addressed it from an Ordinance standpoint. It's not something where I just come off the wall one day and say you got -we're going to shut your water off because. We need to have a legal process for that. The process I'm currently using on a testing purpose is I give the people 90 days, there are three notices within that 90 days. At the 90 day period I send them a 10-day termination letter, let them know what day we will be terminating service. We've had two in eight months that wanted to push it right to the end. Typically people come into compliance far before we reach that point. We do need to have that in the process and I would like to see that addressed. I believe that's all of the Ordinance changes. I have enough paperwork to drown you so I'm trying to be very, very careful here. Is that all of the ones that addressed the actual Ordinance itself? Bird: Council, any questions for Joel? Herron: I do have one other thing I need to address before we're done. De Weerd: I know DEQ's going to be coming out with some more restrictive requirements. Will these changes adequately address what is upcoming? Herron: As in -that is not completely public information. I do not know whether it will be addressed, but definitely part of it will be. I talked to Dick Swager from DEQ for about an hour and a half today. The thing that's very, very tricky about this whole thing is what I do is not really cut and dried in any (inaudible) Ordinance. For DEQ, AWWA, or our Ordinance, what I do is blend everything together that I'm required to do to make it an offer-able program. Basically DEQ does not mandate me to make and put a device in, it only demands me to turn the water off if they don't. AWWA recommends what equipment needs to go in there, and when the plumber puts it in they also mandate how it has to be put in. The State plumbing codes then mandates - so it becomes a real, real tricky area. That's why my job is what it is. The thing that know has become really critical, is we've got to make a determination of how we're going run our program. We have basically two options available to us. In my mind we only have one but there are two options available. One is just containment all we do is isolate certain commercial facilities. (Inaudible conversation amongst Council members) Herron: With that AWWA, the Pacific Northwest if we adopt it, it is a little more stringent than just the AWWA. I also have a copy of theirs if you'd like it. If you look at Item No. 2, I believe, if I may borrow your copies for the second time. My apology it's Item No. 5, on an autopsy table. AWWA only requires an atmospheric vacuum breaker. It's not a device that's been processed through Meridian City Council Worksho~ January 9, 2001 Page 36 the University of Southern California. It's anon-testable piece of equipment and we're dealing with something that the only that stands between the water system and whatever was in that human corpse. The only thing that protects it is a device that has never been approved or certified by USC. AWWA Pacific Northwest addresses that and says no you're going to put an RP on it so it's more stringent. That's the big reason why DEQ and the -lots of tricky equipment. You'll see stuff on that list that you don't even have a clue what it is. Fortunately, I do. De Weerd: I want to know why a baptismal fountain is so high in health hazards. Herron: Anytime that you have a human body, you have a risk of disease. Let's say you get a person in there - De Weerd: We just put little bit on the forehead, we don't emerge ourselves. Herron: Some do, see this is where this gets tricky. This is where it becomes the responsibility of the Cross Connection Control Specialist to look at each one of those. That's why nobody cuts and dries this, they leave it very open to the Water proveyer to look at these facilities. The baptismal, it's like a washing machine, here's a real prime example that I get to pick on our Fire Department today. We were invited out there. They have a washing machine for washing their uniforms for the fireman. We get out there, it's just a washing machine, and we all have washing machines. The piece of equipment that he has is this piece of equipment has an under the rim washing machine. This tub doesn't top load like ours does it front loads. The fill is below the rim. The sewer connection to it, someone hooked the sewer connection to it right hard-piped it right directly to the sewer. If we get an incident from the sewage backing up it will go right straight into the washing machine from the sewer, right straight into our domestic drinking water. This is why -one washing machine is fine, the next washing machine is not. The Inspector has to be able to look at those on a one on one basis. You cannot say all washing machines so it leaves it very, very open. Baptismal is the same way. What happens with it, some churches do submerse. The churches that do, what (sic) if you have someone who is an AIDS patient or is carrying another communal disease? You're baptizing, the Fire Department goes in there and hooks up a fire truck. All of a sudden it back siphons that water out of that baptismal right back into the drinking water system. We now have a major problem. That's why a baptismal, to answer your question is such a high risk. It's only a high risk under certain conditions and all of the Cross Connection Control is all under certain conditions. The City of Meridian also has another thing that we have to address if we look at (inaudible) containments. I don't look at the baptismal. I don't look at any of the rest of this equipment. All we do is isolate the building and it somebody else's problem. I really disagree with even the philosophy of thinking about containment. The other thing too with that, is if we're going to practice containment how do we address our pressurized irrigation? We live in a community and it has large amounts of pressurized Meridian City Council Worksho~ January 9, 2001 Page 37 irrigation, we've now got ditch water on pump systems with greater pressure than our domestic water system. De Weerd: On some of them you have two. You have both to hook up to the irrigation and - Herron: We've had literally over a thousand of them that I've located in the last eight months. Out of that thousand over one hundred of those were improperly connected. Some of them had no back-flow preventors, others had atmospheric vacuum breakers, others had pressure vacuum breakers and it's mandated that they're an RP. If we are going to do just containment, I can't touch those so as -- - Idon't know I would really like the Council to tell me what direction Gary and I need to go because we don't have a defined direction to go with this. I don't want to go in any directions without a recommendation from Council of what we're going to do with this. If we want to look at some kind of a highbred system where we do both -- to me it just needs - my personal professional opinion is it just needs to be isolation. We need to go through that and isolate every piece of equipment in that facility. De Weerd: I saw a presentation you did a year or two ago to Council on back- flow on the irrigation systems I think it was. Didn't we have something like that a year or two ago? Bird: Yes we did, a workshop. Herron: It's something that we need to address. One of the things that you have mentioned about things that are upcoming, we were going to wind up taking responsibility to a certain point for these Pressurized Irrigation Systems to make sure that they're posted with pink purple tags, that it's non potable water. There's a whole pile of regulations coming down on that that we're going to see in the future. We really are going to have to address the whole thing as a package. I would really like -the Council to digest that for awhile, and give me a determination of what direction you would like to go with that. At this point I'll shutup and answer questions you may have. Bird: Any questions Council? McCandless: Mr. President, I guess this is the first time I've heard anything like this presentation. To go along with what Tammy was talking about irrigation systems is that says sprinkler systems? Herron: Yes, lawn sprinkler systems. McCandless: Do you investigate every single home? Herron: Correct, in the last eight months I've looked at over 1,000 homes. Meridian City Council Worksho~ January 9, 2001 Page 38 • Basically 1,000 out of 13,000 services I've currently looked at within the last eight months. I absolutely feel it's absolutely brutal we look at every service that we have. My original estimate, when I was hired by John, was within three years we need to look at every facility that we've got, commercial and residential as far irrigation. If we can protect it the very best that we can, my estimate is that we will be 98 percent protected. We will never be 100 percent protected. What this is all about is minimizing our liability. As a Water Proveyer, where we provide the water to the customer, we have to protect our system the best we possibly can. The thing that really drives me to leave me to isolation is if we've done everything we can possible do and we still have an incident, then we really have minimized our liability. This is about liability, it's all this is about is protecting peoples health and protecting our liability. If we just do containment all of the lawsuits that I've studied, all of the Water Proveyers, all of the conferences that I've went to in the last nine years, if you only do containment your liability is staggering. They say you knew better, and you chose to do nothing about it. That really concerns me, it makes my job extremely easy if we only do containment but it really concerns me about the liability of this City. That's why I lean so hard for isolation. McCandless: The reason I asked that question, is I've heard people bragging about the fact that if their irrigation water goes off their sprinkler system, they can just switch it and go into City water. I understood that that was illegal. Herron: This is where it gets real tricky again with Meridian and why you've got to look at each one separately. Currently there's a list published. If you're in certain subdivisions you cannot be hooked to pressurized irrigation and City. The older subdivisions, the Sportsman, Meridian Greens, those areas over in there, were hooked up to City prior to being hooked to pressurized irrigation. It was so mixed up that our policy then became, we can't get rid of both connections but we can make them put on RP's. I reached out there a little ways out of realm of authorization and we made all of those folks that didn't have RP's, put in RP's. Now we've got a protected system. Yes they still can use City water but we do not have to worry about that getting back into our domestic system. They may have a $4,000 water bill where they fed to pressurized irrigation, which we've had several of those. The City decided to negotiate that, however they choose to negotiate it. After two or three of those people smarted up real quick. Corrie: They turn the valve. Herron: Yes, they go out and turn that valve off. As time allows, I'll be back before this Council to ask for some other modifications. First I have to get my house in order. I would like to see that on all pressurized irrigation that there's a dual check installed on the pressurized irrigation side. It doesn't have to be a double check, a double check is a testable device, and a dual check is a non- testable device. What it will do for these people is to stop them from these atrocious water bills and the millions of gallons of water that is consumed each year through the Pressurized Irrigation Systems that are not checked against City Meridian City Council Worksho~ January 9, 2001 Page 39 water. We can protect our system. We can also stop them from the high water bills. I think on out new facilities, this is something I can work out with Gary, whether he even wants to have it back before you. They may be able to address that through public works. You're right, there are a lot of people who are, there are a lot of subdivisions that do allow to be hooked into City, but they're mostly old subdivisions. The new subdivisions, if I find them they're coming back out. The criteria that I was given initially was this list. If they're in the subdivisions that say you cannot be dual hooked up, we make them dig them up and take them out. Some of them have opted to disconnect from the City water. They don't want to go to the cost of putting in RP. Currently I've got a file on my program where I track those. We just call it a PISCA file. It's a Pressurized Irrigation System that's capped. Once a year I check those. If they hook back up to City water, they're instantly terminated, there's no questions, they've wrote me letters and they understand that they cannot hook back up to City water without pulling a permit and putting in the appropriate device. Some of those people I've got about 85 of those who have just disconnected because they knew they had a problem and they didn't' want to correct it so they just disconnected. What we have to do is watch it very carefully that they don't try to bootleg it back in. He's gone, he's done a survey and he's gone away. It doesn't work that way. Once I do the survey, they're in my database and we watch them very carefully. Bird: Council any other questions, Mayor? Mayor: I think Gary, you talked about the possibility of charging, and well we'll go into that later. Everybody in the City has to be on it, there's a charge fee we can go into that another time. Herron: I brought that up initially again to John when I came on board. One of the things that I felt was very important is Cross Connection Control equipment protects every citizen in our community. The cost of operating the testing side of that is something that, to me the burden needed to be shared by everybody in the Community. That's why I ask if they have to be done, is the testers who are testing out there have some real huge battles with the customers. If we're paying the contractor, we still haven't taken on the liability of the testing. They get to choose the contractor they're using. What we do is pay the tester a fixed fee per year to test that device. That's why I initiated that, what it will do is eliminate the uproar that we get about the cost of testing that device. That's why I initially proposed that. The City of Garden City runs a program. They added a dollar to the dollar bill of every water user in their community. The only thing that they did that I do not want to get involved in is they also hired the contractors and said you go test this one and this one and this one. That's a liability that I do not want any part of. I wanted to stay on the open free market. New tester comes along, and he has a right to a piece of that business. I did require that all testers in our community have current certification, they are re-certified every two years, and they must carry a $500,000 liability policy. A lot of them instantly say I don't want to do that, then I don't want them testing my community. If they don't want o Meridian Cily Caincil worksha~ January 9, 2001 P~qe 40 accept any of the responsibility, Idon't want them testing. We were able to get rid of some of the fly by night operators that were really going to cause us heartache later by doing that. The 29th of this month I'm having a meeting with all of our testers to cover all of the things that I have required them to do. The test caulks have to be plugged on all double checks under ground. There's a lot of criteria, little things that can be addressed between me and the contractors but by having the limited number of contractors I'm able to really work with them on a one on one and make our program an incredible program. That's where I'm headed with this program, hopefully that's given you a little insight in what I've done in the last eight months and where we're heading in the future. De Weerd: Thank you. Bird: Thank you Joel, very well (sic). Looks like we need to have some work on that Ordinance, Gary maybe Joel and Bill and you can present something in an Ordinance form to us here, get it taken care of. Issue #11 Discussion of Finance Documents for Police Building Bird: Council, discussion on the Financing Documents for the Police Building. I think Mr. Nichols probably -- you want to take it through the process? What is being done, how it's done? Nichols: Mr. President, Mayor, members of the Council. I previously have gotten a memo from Bud Way on some of the steps that have to be gone through in order to get these Judicial Confirmation premises off the ground. You will recall that the first step was to review, or have proposed financing documents. I believe Mayor, didn't you get a copy of these documents -I've been through them, I've talked to Mr. Skinner. There are a couple of minor revisions or changes in them. You can see that what the essence of this financing would be is this. The City would act as an agent for the trustee, which in this case is First Security Bank and I don't know if they're still going to be know as First Security Bank by the time we get to that point. First Fargo or Wells Security or whatever it might be. Anyway, the City acts as the agent of the trustee as far as all of the construction on this building. There are requirements in these financing documents with regard to things that have to be in the Construction Contracts. Everything from insurance to whom improves draws to a variety of things on a construction side. When it's all said and done in this case the police property, the real property would be owned by the City. The building would be owned by the trustee and would be leased by the City for the period of time that we determine for the financing. I think the current projection was about aten-year financing period. The trustee takes the -before the construction begins, goes out and goes on the market to obtain funds from investors through these certificates of participation. Those certificates then have specific redemption dates, specific interest rates and so on. One of the things that's negotiated with the investors is can you pay these off early or can you pay it off any sooner than Meridian City Council Worksh~ January 9, 2001 Page 41 five years, three years? There's probably a certain period of time in which you can't pay this off early. In other words all of a sudden, somehow the city is a benefactor of a huge grant or something that could pay it off you might be delayed in being actually able to do that without paying a penalty. These investors put up their money for a -with at least some anticipation that they would recover that for a period of time. That's one of the things that are in here. That `s the essence of it, the City would lease the building on the land the City owns. We would have a judicially confirmed multi-year obligation. Mr. Skinner says primarily the investor's look at the Judicial Confirmation Decree as really their security. It's the good faith and credit of the City on an authorized multi-year obligation that's their primary security. They also have the security in terms of their certificates of participation, which in a sense is a piece of ownership of the building until the end of the lease when the City buys it for one dollar. It's a lease purchase. The purchase at the end of the ten-year period would be for one dollar or whenever those certificates were redeemed if they were redeemed early. You have the Financing Documents and that part (inaudible). There are a couple of little things that I talked with Skinner about today. The next step is to schedule a Public Hearing so that we can put to the public why we proposed to go through the Judicial Confirmation process, why we want to petition for Judicial Confirmation of this multi year obligation. Why it's an ordinary and necessary expenses so that all needs to be covered at the Public Hearing. .You have to have at least 15 days advanced notice of that hearing by law from the time it's published in the newspaper. We've got these documents now that show the essence of the -it's not filled in, in terms of the dollar amount but we have in essence this part of the structure. We need to schedule the Public Hearing and prepare for that. Go through the Public Hearing, then you have to wait a period of time after the Public Hearing before you can pass your resolution that says file the petition, get a hearing on the petition and proceed. McCandless: How long? After the Public Hearing how long do we have to wait? Nichols: I think it was another 15 days, I believe it was. McCandless: Does this Public Hearing have to be part of a Council meeting? Bird: No, you can do it anytime. Nichols: It's 14 days before you adopt the resolution to authorize the filing of the petition. You have the Public Hearing. You have to wait at least two weeks then you have a meeting, pass the resolution. Presumably the next day the petition is filed, we'll have the draft of the resolution and get that stuff put together ahead of time. You file it, you get a date specific for the hearing in front of the judge, it has to be -you have to publish the notice and it has to be at least beginning 30 days before the hearing and post those notices. It's at least 30 days then after, the petition is filed before you can have the hearing. You have the hearing and as soon as the judge makes the decision and issues the decree, assuming a Meridian City Council Worksho~ January 9, 2001 Page 42 favorable one then there's a 42 day appeal period which, statutorily it's a six week appeal period. As soon as that appeal period is gone then the decree is set and it's non-appealable and it's all put together. We need to do this as soon as we can in order to keep stuff rolling. One of the other parts of the puzzle of course would be the architect (inaudible) got to give us some input in terms of what the estimate on the cost of the building will be. What's part of this process is say we're going to spend up to x million dollars based upon our best estimates from the architect with regard to the current concept and those sorts of things. We need to get the Public Hearing set. De Weerd: Mr. President, Mr. Nichols, could we get that outline that you just explained to us maybe in writing? Bird: You had it. It was in your box. Corrie: I'll give it to you again if you don't have it. De Weerd: Could we perhaps attach some dates to it so that we can really keep focused and make sure we stay on track? (Inaudible). Nichols: Councilwomen de Weerd, what I was referring to, I think it came to you in two forms. One was the same outline came to you from Bud Way and myself about the same time I think. If you want us to do a timeline we can do that but it would start with you setting the date for the Public Hearing. That's really the first date. We set the date for the Public Hearing, we have to issue and publish the notice. The soonest we could pass a resolution would be 14 days after that Public Hearing then we file the petition. We wouldn't have as much control over the date for the hearing because it has to do with the court's availability and the docket. De Weerd: I know, where you have tangible dates. In order to set this Public Hearing do we need the total amount? Do we need anything before we get to that Public Meeting so it's assessable to public and that sort of thing? Nichols: Let me read to you essentially, the Public Hearing without the date in it, the notice of Public Hearing that has to be published. It just reads, notices hereby given that the City of Meridian Idaho, the City, will hold a hearing on blank 2001 at the hour blank p.m. at City Council chambers at Meridian City Hall. 33 East Idaho, Meridian Idaho to determine whether to proceed with acquisition and construction on certain Law Enforcement facilities called the project: Whether to enter into a Lease and Trust Agreement, the agreement in order to finance the project and whether to file it's petition pursuant to the Idaho Judicial Confirmation Law, Idaho code section 7-1301 at sequetur. Describing the project in the agreement and requesting a Judicial Confirmation of the power in the authority of the City under the constitution and the laws of Idaho to approve entering into the agreement and related documents in order to provide for the acquisition in Meridian City Council Worksho~ January 9, 2001 Page 43 construction (inaudible) project. Persons wishing to examine copies of these documents or requesting other information may contact and you would indicate who the contact person -could be probably City Clerk at 33 East Idaho, Meridian, Idaho. De Weerd: Bill, who would be doing the presentation of the Public Hearing. What would be presented? Nichols: Councilwoman de Weerd, I'm just more or less guessing because I haven't gone through this process before. Based upon - my understanding would be I guess it would probably be multi-facetted. It would be the Police Chief listing the inadequacies of the current facility. It would include reference to the study the City paid for which projected building needs for the City based upon certain projected populations and so forth. It would include the Police Chief I presume, or somebody on behalf of the department, it doesn't have to be the Chief. It could be somebody that says look, this is what we are planning for it's approximately a 35,000 square foot building which would include space for this and this and this and this. It would have expandability features, all of the good things about what's been proposed. We would have, I presume, some representative from Wells Fargo there to be able to explain the financing arrangement if anyone had questions about that to describe the structure of the financing a whole lot better than t did and how this would be paid for. Essentially to lay out your case, I don't know that is has to be quite that detailed because the decision, the resolution itself -the decision of the Council to proceed is not really an appealable thing, it's not subject to Judicial Review. You really lay your evidence in heavy in the briefing that goes together with the petition before the hearing in front of the judge. That's' the person you have to convince. The reason for the Public Hearing is so people understand what's going on. There's at least a basic structure but we could use the Public Hearing as kind of a dry run for the things that we would eventually want to put in the petition and the affidavits in accompanying briefing documents and so forth. Bird: When can we set the - we can't set the Public Hearing until the 16th can we? Can we do it tonight? Corrie: Do we have the costs and everything down? Do we have the architect all down? Bird: Well the Public Hearing -- we don't have to have that down to set our Public Hearing Mayor. Nichols: We would need to have some estimate of the cost by the time of Public Hearing. Bird: You need to post it and have 15 days post before we can have it. We need to get it posted and I'll guarantee 15 days Russ Moorehead or Steve Simmons Meridian City Council Worksh~ January 9, 2001 Page 44 can come up with a cost. Corrie: I think we've already got that, because it's always (inaudible). De Weerd: I would like to know too Chief if we've gotten the bids out for Construction Management. Gordon: I can't do that until we get the approval on the money. If we hire a Construction Manager and then the financing doesn't come through that's part of the money. Bird: Once you get through the Judicial. Gordon: We have to wait till Judicial Confirmation's done. Russ Moorehead and Mike Thomas were here earlier and this is the scale down (inaudible). This is 35,000 square feet. De Weerd: Pretty. Gordon: The bad news is that's 4 million. What they propose is make it a flat roof, eliminate the two wings, the public meeting rooms, and parole/probation. Cut it down to $30,000 square foot. Their construction estimate now is $100 a square foot. They said it's going to go up even more as we go along because all of the School Districts and the School Bonds. They're going to be building schools and you're not going to be able to get your contractors. Construction costs are going to go up. Right now he said that was as of today. If we do away with the public meeting rooms, and parole/probation, that's 5,000 square foot that drops it to 300 which is exactly 3 million at $100 a square foot. I guess what I'm asking -instead of me telling you how much it's going to cost, are you going to hold me right to that 3.5? Is that the line that I need to work with and then I will just build a building inside of that with the architects? Bird: I think there's a lot of sugar on there that could certainly be -the sloped roofs are nice but they cost a lot. Gordon: That's what Russ says. Bird: Ada County courthouse, which is a good thing, is very plain but it looks nice. They're getting it built for less than $100 a square foot but they don't have sloped roofs and they don't have this and that, they don't have that. I don't mind the deal, I think the one thing - I don't know where my book went because I haven't got it back but if I recall 80,000 people, a population of 80,000 was 32,000 square feet if I recall. The population of 80,000 said we would then need Gordon: 20-20 Meridian City Council Worksh~ January 9, 2001 Page 45 Bird: What? We would need 32,000 and we're putting up 35 now with our population of 35,000. Gordon: That's with parole/probation and meeting rooms. Bird: The parole/probation, I'm not billing for the State of Idaho personally. If we have extra room and want to lease to them, we'll have a leasing agent do it. I think, and I have no problem with the 35,000. Corrie: You're not going to get 35,000 at that price. Bird: I think you can. Gordon: The $100 a square foot was with the flat roof and you're going to have to take that up with Russ Moorehead because that's what he told me this evening. That would be like me trying to tell you how thick safety glass has to be. Bird: I don't have any doubt about that Bill. $100 a square foot with the flat roof. Gordon: Right now. Bird: Like that or with the flat roof? Gordon: Either way, $100 a square foot on 35 -and the roof - Bird: With 35,000 square feet? That's 3.5 million. Gordon: Let me finish Keith. 35,000 square foot with that roof at $100 a square foot and the extra costs on those roofs is $4,000,000. You cut the roof to a flat roof that's $500,000 he said. Right off of the top. Bird: That's down to 3.5. Gordon: Right, but you're still 3.5 but that doesn't allow for groundwork or moving earth or anything else. Preparation doesn't account for landscaping, tests. He said that $500,000 plus Planning and Zoning now is talking about tiling that ditch that's $30,000. That would come out of that $500,000 so he said the $500,000 on just ground preparation is just about what you want to look at. De Weerd: Why do we have to the a ditch? Gordon: That's one of the City Ordinances. Anderson: I think that Ordinance, because we got into on the Fire Station reads Meridian City Council Worksh~ January 9, 2001 Page 46 • that it either has to be tiled or has to be in amenity and that's what we did,. we made it an amenity. I would think you could do the same thing with the park part of it. McCandless: That's what we wanted to do. Gordon: That was my next question that's one of the questions that I have for you guys. We have to file a waiver for that ditch, and I thought we were going to do an amenity too. Planning and Zoning was pretty strict and they didn't even address the issue, they passed it onto you guys. Do you want me to file a waiver on the ditch? Anderson: What do you mean like variance? Gordon: A variance yes. Then just make it an amenity. Anderson: That's what I would like to see it. Gordon: I would too. Anderson: I guess on the building, my preference would be build it that -we've been planning 3.5 million dollars and that's what we've got all of our estimates on as far as a lease and all of those things. That's how we set our budget up so I would say build as much building as you can for that and that we just give you the perimeter that we want you to stay after that. Gordon: That answered my question right there. Anderson: That's my preference. Bird: That's my preference. Corrie: (Inaudible) 3.5 million and get what you can out of it. Bird: I think you can get a lot more square footage by taking some of the sugar coating off on the outside. That does look nice, don't get me wrong. Gordon: This was kind of staying in line with the Fire Department with this one over here. It's a good looking building in a similar design. The only difference is it's considerably larger. Bird: You've got a lot more brick, which I think is smart. Gordon: That's going to have to go. Bird: I know some of it's going to have to go. Meridian City Council Worksh~ January 9, 2001 Page 47 • Gordon: Councilmen Anderson answered my question. If it's the 3.5 million then that's the cost of the building and we will draw into 3.5. According to Russ, the way construction is taking off, and he said this year is going to be even worse. It's going to continue to go up. As the cost continues to go up, the square footage is going to have to come down. I'll just keep it within the 3 million on the building and the $500,000 for land preparation. Bird: $500,000 for land preparation? Gordon: That's what he said. Bird: I would like to see some of those given to a couple of construction managers to do a - Gordon: It has. Bird: -- whom did he give it to? Gordon: I don't know, he said he had Construction Management getting these figures today. Bird: I'll call Steve and ask him whom they gave it to. Gordon: I have a 1:30 appointment tomorrow in my office if you would like to be there. Bird: No thank you. Gordon: I would like to have you there but you've given me my marching orders. The cost of the building is going to be 3.5 million plain and simple. De Weerd: Within that 3.5 million can you still keep the community meeting room? Gordon: No. McCandless: I wander how Caldwell is getting by with 5 million with their building. Bird: I don't know. McCandless: They've got 30,000 just barely. Bird: 30,000 square feet? Meridian City Council Worksh~ January 9, 2001 Page 48 McCandless: No, population. Bird: I don't know, they passed the bond -and plus that fact is they're putting their City Hall in it. They're going to have their meeting rooms and stuff. McCandless: I wasn't sure what they had done. Bird: That's what I understand. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Gordon: There's asix-foot slope on the property from top to the end. De Weerd: That's not a mountain. Anderson: What is it? (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Corrie: That's why they get that (inaudible) outside the highway. Gordon: That was one of the things that I think it was Sally Norton on Planning and Zoning? She was really hot on the Public Meeting rooms. De Weerd: Well I know every Civic Organization in town is too. Including the (inaudible) because there's no meeting anywhere. Gordon: I know but I can't do it under the 3 million according to Russ. Bird: Let me ask you a question. What kind of (inaudible) do you got for carpet and the and all of that stuff? Gordon: We haven't even gotten into that yet. Bird: That had to be figured in the 100 dollars. Gordon: He's got an estimated cost on the construction equipment, the specifications on equipment stuff for this building. I don't know what it is. It's just all figured in there Keith. Bird: Okay Bill. Gordon: It's not expensive stuff, I assure you. Bird: I think it needs to be practical stuff. Meridian City Council Worksh~ January 9, 2001 Page 49 (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Corrie: (Inaudible) architect tells us what they're going to do for that then we can come back in. Gordon: I would rather bill smaller and quality then bigger and cheap. Corrie: We can second guess an architect and let him tell you what it is, then you can tell him what you are going to do. Gordon: 3.5 million that's the cost of the building. Bird: It will be a nice one. Gordon: It will. Bird: It will be nice. Gordon: Did that answer your questions? Bird: It did mine, that's no problem. I have no problem at all. Nichols: Mr. President, Mayor, and members of the Council, we still have to set date specific for the hearing. That would mean - we can fill out this notice of the hearing; we can have it ready for Will to get the newspaper tomorrow. Will they publish something sooner than Friday or not? Berg: We missed Friday's deadline which ends today at noon. Nichols: Unless we buy it as a display ad? Berg: Yes. Bird: When can we have our meeting then, Will? Berg: When can you have your meeting for what? Bird: Fifteen days if we get it published? Nichols: We could probably have it published on Thursday as a display. Can we get a display ad that quickly, Will, you think or not? Not pay - I'm not sure if that works for a public hearing notice. De Weerd: Can we just set a special date for it? Bird: Yes. That would be nice just to have that on a Public Hearing, get in and Meridian City Council Worksh~ January 9, 2001 Page 50 get out and not have it part of our Regular Agenda. McCandless: What about Monday the 5tn~ Bird: When? McCandless: Monday the Stn. You can't send it in for publishing until the 19tH but you have to have it in by the 17tH, that's too late for the 10tH Corrie: That would be Monday the Stn Bird: Public Hearing for Monday the 5tn~ Corrie: I say if you get it in the paper the 20tH did you say? Berg: The 19tH. That's not a problem. Corrie: Okay the 19tH, that's Friday the 2nd McCandless: Yes, but you don't really want to have a Public Hearing on a Friday. Berg: Does the Code just say so many days prior to the hearing or does it say it has to be exactly? Nichols: It's at least 15 days. McCandless: So the Stn Berg: I don't know what's going on the Stn, (inaudible) the School District meeting the 1St (inaudible). Bird: If we can get it in this week then we can have our regular scheduled Tuesday night that we're having the workshop. We can have that ahead of that and then have our workshop afterwards. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Corrie: You're having a workshop the 30t" (inaudible)? Bird: Yeah with Planning and Zoning. I can't see this Public Hearing lasting very long. I don't see any opposition to it. De Weerd: I don't see it either. Berg: So I have to have it in by the 16tn~ Meridian City Council Worksh~ January 9, 2001 Page 51 Bird: You have to have it in by what? Berg: The 16tH to get the 15 days prior post filled? Bird: Today's the Stn, which is a Tuesday. If you take it down Wednesday when would they publish it? Nichols: No, the 16tH is too late, if you're going to have it on the 30tH it has to be published no later than Sunday the 14tH Berg: It can't be published -they count the 30tH as a day. Nichols: I don't think you can count the day of the hearing as a day. It's 15 days prior to so you have to count backwards. Corrie: Monday the 15tH is a holiday would that make any difference? Bird: No. Berg: The Statesman seems to be ruling what we do and don't do. We can't fax it down; we have to a-mail it down. That's how they give their - we talked about that earlier. They tell us when our day is which is Friday but if we get it so many days prior I don't see why we can't have it in the Sunday's paper or Saturday's paper. Nichols: Council, I don't see anything wrong with you setting a date and say we'll have a Public Hearing on January 30tH at such and such time if Will can get the Statesman to publish the notice no later than January 15tH. If they won't publish the notice until the 19tH of January, then we would have to have it on the 6tH That's our regular (inaudible) meeting? Bird: I just say keep it away from our normal meeting. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Bird: I don't know why Will can't get it published; he can pull something with Kendra. She can put it in an article. Council, seeing how we can't vote on anything, but would that be a (inaudible) Mr. Anderson with you? Anderson: Works for me. Bird: Mrs. McCandless? McCandless: Works for me. Meridian City Caancil Worksh~ January 9, 2001 Page 52 Bird: Mrs. De Weerd? De Weerd: Works for me. Bird: Works for me, so Mayor, it's yours. Corrie: You got it, let's do it and see where we go. • Bird: Last item #12 Future Topics, and by we're going to get out of here by 9:30. De Weerd: I think that (inaudible) have a couple of uniformed Police Officers outside on the Public Hearing day. Bird: Why? De Weerd: They can qualify who can come in. Bird: I don't think you'll have any problem. Anybody that doesn't believe we need one all we have to do is go walk through the old one. De Weerd: We could give tours first. I'm not kidding. Corrie: I think they've already toured it: Bird: I think they've already toured it. I think Kendra's written (sic) a couple of articles. De Weerd: We could even get Kendra to write an article and invite them. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Bird: Anybody have anything to add to tonight. Corrie: Not tonight's - I think you need to probably have an Executive Session on the night I'm not here -Pacific railroad, whether you want to go in with that option, you discuss it. Bird: You're getting out of stuff. Corrie: I don't want to do it tonight, I want to go home too. Bird: Let me ask you another question Mayor, what is processing with the Fire property? Corrie: Bill, what's our next procedure? We've got the appraisal; now, the next processing we have to go to all of the City Departments to make sure it's not Meridian City Council Worksh~ • January 9, 2001 Page 53 wanted or is the (inaudible) at the procedure? Nichols: Mr. Mayor, members of the Council, I know Council member Anderson raised the issue that there really needs to be a decision on the part of the Council that that building and the property it sits on is surplused. There needs to be discussion, different departments need to have their input if they choose to put any input into it as to do we really need this building and the land it sits on. Yes or no because the Council has to make a determination that is not necessary for City purposes. Once the Council makes that determination then we jump through all of the hoops. We've got the appraisal, which is one of them, but we jump through the hoops to go ahead and put it up for sale. It has to go out by Public Auction. The opening price is the appraisal price. If nobody bids on it at that price then the Council is free to negotiate a sale of the building with a private party through the usual process of offering it for sale and looking at an offer and deciding whether you want to take it. Bird: They can actually - at Nampa, they actually, even though it was appraised at this value they could actually take it at this if they just had one offer? Nichols: What happened was they had it appraised at whatever the number was, they put it up for Public Auction. The Finance Director or the Mayor, I can't remember which was there to call the auction and there were no bidders. At that point the City is free to sell it on the open market and to entertain offers that come in whether to take them or not. You're not obligated to take the only offer, you can look at it and say that's too cheap. Then you're not bound to the appraisal price, if people are interested in it and there is bidding at the Public Auctions, once that opening bid price is met then wherever it ends it ends. Bird: You're not required to stay within a percent of the appraisal before you can sell it. Nichols: No, you just have the determince and the best interest of the City to sell it for that price. Anderson: Mr. President, I just wanted to give everybody a little briefing on this. Kenny gave me this today. It's a Preliminary Report from Idaho Survey and Rating Bureau and I imagine Kenny will probably want to meet with us and explain it a little bit more later or maybe Survey and Rating might want to come out. Every seven years the Survey and Rating Bureau assesses the Fire Department and they look at the manpower you have, the equipment you have, the stations, your response times, your water supply, your dispatch services, all of those types of things and then they rate you. That's how people's insurance premiums for Fire Insurance are typically determined and they're not bound by that insurance company but that's typically what they quote off of. The City of Meridian has been for the last seven years a class five. We had delayed them just as long as we could try to get station two built and that manpower on board Meridian City Council Workshd• January 9, 2001 Page 54 because we knew that would have an impact on our rating. They wouldn't wait any longer so they came out and rated us. Meridian is again a five but we are very close, we are like a point and a half off from being a four. When station two goes online with that additional station and the manpower that will come on board because of that we can then ask for a re-rate. They will come out prior to the seven-year thing and they would do a re-rate, if we can go to a four that would save a lot of taxpayers some money on some insurance premiums. I just wanted to give everybody a little briefing on that and I don't know if you've seen this report yet? Bird: Cherie you have anything? McCandless: No. Bird: Tammy? De Weerd: You hate to really get to me, don't you? (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) De Weerd: I'll give you my list for future topics, but after our ACHD meeting, they somewhat wanted some clarification on our 5, 6, and 7 the rebuild Meridian Road, rebuild Linder Road, and the rebuild Ten Mile. If we want them in that order because the conversation kind of led that Ten-Mile might be of higher importance. If we did have some readjustments on that they needed to know that because they will go directly off of this. They also suggested that perhaps, when we look at these, what we've done is mainly in two-mile increments. Of course Franklin and Overland, we have the same with Locust Grove. Ten Mile, Linder and Meridian these are all two-mile requests so when we start looking at this we have to keep those in mind if we have a mile preference and that sort of thing. If Ten Mile is more important than Meridian and Linder, Ten Mile needs to move up on this list. I think probably on Ten Mile the most important piece is from Franklin to Cherry because the overlay they did, was it last year? Bird: Two years ago. You mean our one project? De Weerd: (Inaudible) so if it's more the Franklin to Cherry that's what we need to know. Bird: Is that where we're going to get another overlay? De Weerd: No. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members.) Bird: It depends on what Boise wants. Meridian City Council Worksh~ January 9, 2001 Page 55 De Weerd: If we want to clarify that Ten Mile - I know we were focusing really on Franklin, Overland and Locust Grove but that Ten Mile comes into play as do we want to make note that it's not 7. I think Ten Mile's more important than Linder and I drive that everyday. They kind of got conflicting signals from our conversations and just wanted some clarification on that. They are going to start working on those priority sheets. Anderson: My thoughts are that Linder, Meridian and Locust Grove because the build out is already there that those are more important then we shouldn't really change any of those priorities. Ten Mile should come last and there are subdivisions out there so there are fewer (sic) people feeding onto that at this point. McCandless: What about that Apartment Complex? Bird: Valeri Heights? They're supposed to do a lot of that work for us. I haven't seen any ground broken yet Cherie. McCandless: What? Bird: I haven't seen any ground broken yet. McCandless: I haven't either they've still got the sale pending signs. I don't think you're going to see that. Bird: Gary did you have something? Smith: Yes I did when you get a minute. Bird: Go ahead. Smith: I've got a draft on some fees that I just want to pass out to you tonight for Public Works review of plans. You can staple them to the one that Shari gave you. I've got some holes still to fill in but we're working on it to get some fee schedules put together for reviews. De Weerd: Speaking of fees, our Parks Department schedule came out, activity schedule. We can hold Public Hearings on it. Bird: Did it go over the percent? De Weerd: Any new classes you really need to - we need to really carefully define that. Bill if you can help our Recreation Superintendent understand what needs to go to Public Hearing. I know in Boise, all of their classes are pretty established. They really do all of their offerings during their annual budget Meridian City Council Worksh~ January 9, 2001 Page 56 • session so they don't have to hold all of these separate Public Hearings. Our programs are really new so that kind of has more opportunities for the need of Public Hearings. I think Cherie, and Will and I are much more aware of these things now that we've taken our class. Nichols: Councilwoman de Weerd, Mayor, members of the Council, maybe one approach would be to come up with some sort of a fee schedule for classes that would range from x to x depending upon something or other. Will do you think maybe something like that would work for Parks and Recreation classes? We could do it once a year, or only have a hearing if it changed. Berg: Mr. Mayor, members of the Council, my understanding of that Ordinance is, if it changes, increases more than five percent, you have to have a hearing. If you have new fees you have to have a hearing. De Weerd: New fees would mean, new class offerings? Berg: That's the way we've been interpreting. If you have a new Water Rafting Class that's a new fee. I'll check around and see if there's any kind of way that we could blanket them. My understanding is kind of generalized in blanket. I haven't seen any ranges unless this is for a specific purpose but I will check some other cities. Nichols: If you look at the existing fees that they charge maybe there's a Class Fee and there's a Lab Fee and if you've got a certain amount to cover. If there's certain things that are pass through such as whatever fee you have to pay to get to Cross Country Skiing at the Nordic Center on Bogus Basin is an addition to your class fee. You don't have to say change it every year because they've increased their fees up there. There are certain things that are in addition. Anderson: Nampa does a lot of them. They don't collect the money. You don't write the check to the City of Nampa and then them pay them, you write it directly to whoever is providing that service. If it's a Pottery Class or a Skiing Class you're writing the check directly to those people so you don't have to have a Public Hearing on those. Bird: I think Boise does a lot of theirs through community schools, which is handled through the School System. What recreation programs does Boise City offer? Like pottery and stuff like that? De Weerd: We had this one class that would want the Public Hearing, can you do it after the fact? I think we learned that once you're aware of something you need to take care of it. Otherwise you can be ignorant for 60 days and if no one challenges you then you're okay. Bird: Why did you bring it up. Meridian City Council Workshd~ January 9, 2001 Page 57 De Weerd: Because I know it. Bird: You're blonde you'll get by. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Corrie: ,Bill what you need to do is check with Tom and see what that is and where it falls in that. We are going to have to get our legal opinion from our attorney so he's the guy that we do that for and see if we need to do it. If we do then we better (inaudible) do it so we can check with Tom. What's the class do you know? De Weerd: No, we discussed it in Committee yesterday. Bird: No problem. Mayor do you have anything? Mayor: Not right now. Bird: Gary, Will, Mr. Nichols? Nichols: Just one Mr. President, one of our prosecutors has asked that we amend the Ordinance on minor in consumption or possession. The current Ordinance only applies to beer. He thought it might be a good idea to expand the definition either that or Meridian will have a new business which is wine buyers for minors. Anyway, I know and we know that you don't' want to have something come up in front of you that we haven't run passes you before. This is a clean up deal like we did with concealed weapons and so forth. I just want you to know I'm going to be getting it to Will so we'll get it on an agenda unless you tell me not to. Just so you know that it's coming. Bird: Do you know that Chief? Did you know our Ordinance was just for beer? Gordon: No (inaudible). Bird: We are still covered by the State then, but we need to clean ours up. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Bird: That's why we need to say the Ordinance so we can get the fine. Do you have. anything Chief? Gordon: I probably need to get together with Mr. Nichols on this getting ready for this Public Hearing. Bird: I think Mr. Skinner would come, didn't he offer to come to the Public Meridian City Council Worksh~ January 9, 2001 Page 58 Hearing? Gordon: Garden City went through that and I've already talked to Chief Parker and he's going to give me the outline (inaudible). Bird: They had no problem at all, I talked to John Evans the Council President and he said they absolutely - I don't see any problems, but I know Bud or Jim will be here. Anderson: Mr. President, I make a motion to adjourn. McCandless: Second. Bird: All in favor? Bird: Are you done now Walt? MEETING ADJOURNED AT 9:41 P.M. (TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) APPROVED: D. CORRIE, MAYOR y;~~s~t~erilr~ ~~ ~.~ ~~ ~ ~, WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., C ERK ~.~ .~ 4+ l 4 4T M