HomeMy WebLinkAboutDecember 18, 2007 C/C MinutesMeridian City Council
December 18, 2007
Page 14 of 87
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve the contract. Mr. Berg, will you call
roll.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Rountree: Before I can vote on that motion I need to have a question answered by
either Keith or Steve. Has the work that's been performed to date been satisfactory,
been within the scope of work that apparently the direction was issued under?
Siddoway: If it's all right, I would ask Elroy to respond to that, as he'd been the one
meeting with the Land Group on that, those services.
Huff: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the scope of work is correct and all the
work that they have done has been what has been in the scope what we have asked
for. Just as a point of classification, it did get lost and I'm partly responsible for that and I
got lost on it, too. So, it's kind of a three way deal. But certainly offer no excuses for it,
so -- but it is right.
Rountree: Thank you.
Watts: And Council members, Madam Mayor, I would like to also add that all of the
purchasing policy and the rules that we have -- everything was followed. The bid was
advertised and I do have all that backup information for this project.
Rountree: Okay.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further discussion? Okay. Mr. Berg.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 8: Continued Public Hearing from November 27, 2007: AP 07-009
Request for City Council Review of an Appeal of the Planning and Zoning
Commission's approval of the Selway Apartments (CUP 07-016) by Glen
Tiderman and Tracy Fries -west of Goddard Creek Way, north of
McMillan Road and east of Ten Mile Road:
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De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Item 8 is a continued Public Hearing from November 27th
on AP 07-09. We continued this item for specific reasons. I'll ask staff to give an
overview.
Hood: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. I was not here at the
November 27th hearing on this item, but I did read through the minutes and I have
come to a brief summary and I'll just read that real quick and kind of go back through a
little bit of how we got to here. We have an appellant that has requested City Council
review of a Planning and Zoning Commission decision on a Conditional Use Permit.
Architectural materials, density, traffic and compatibility with the surrounding residences
seem to be the primary concerns of the appellant. This project was continued from
November 27th, so the Council could review revised elevations that show a minimum
stone work or accent of 50 percent and greater modulation on the carriage units. Two,
who will be responsible for installing no parking signs on Goddard Creek. Three,
providing cross-access easements to property to the south. Four, across-section
showing the screening for the headlights on the north boundary. Five, if the existing
pathway to the north is not extended into the site, what is the plan for that area where
the pathway currently exists. And, finally, so all parties could review the written minutes
from the 27th. The hearing was continued and the appellant, applicant, and public
should be allowed an opportunity discuss only the items listed above. However, I do
understand that the fire department has been in some discussions and some questions
may be raised. I'll leave that up to the discretion of the Council, if you're going to accept
any public testimony regarding that, but that was not one of the things that this item was
continued to discuss. I do have an update for you on the five items that were mentioned
that I just listed. One, the applicant has prepared revised elevations and will present
those just after I'm done with my presentation. Two, ACHD staff, Christie Richardson,
submitted an a-mail requesting a condition be added stating the developer shall install
no parking signs on Goddard Creek Way from Wapoot Way to the south for a location to
be determined by ACHD traffic services. The cost associated with the signs and the
installation shall be at developer's cost. There was some associated roadway striping
pavement marking that needs to occur with the installation of the signage. ACHD will
pay for and conduct that work, but the developer shall coordinate the scheduling of the
sign installation with traffic services, so that the pavement marking can occur at the
appropriate time. In regards item three, staff -- planning staff recommends that the City
Council add a condition to the CUP requiring cross-access be provided to the properties
to the south in two locations. Let me just jump to the site plan real quick. One of the
locations is the shared private street access point that they have coming in off of
Goddard Creek and, then, the property to the south. So, across-access agreement
here, as well as the extension and providing cross-access of that drive aisle there in the
southwest portion of the site. Staff recommends that the condition be added that reads
as follows: Prior to issuance of the fourth building permit, provide planning staff with a
copy of a recorded cross-access ingress-egress easement to the property to the south.
Said easement shall provide vehicular access to the property to the south in two
locations shown on the site plan to Goddard Creek Way. And, then, in regards to item
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four, the applicant has submitted across-section showing screening to the north. And,
again, I'll let the applicant present that after I'm done with my presentation. And, then,
finally, I did contact the appellant today and talked with them about potential plans, if the
-- there is an existing pathway stub, a micro pathway stub to this site in this location
here. There was some discussions about that pathway not being extended into the site
and continuing through the development as part of the pedestrian network system. I will,
again, defer that answer to the appellant when they get up and testify. The interim parks
director is also here. That was part of the minutes last time. I believe it was Mr. Nary
mentioned that -- that Mr. Siddoway maybe could comment on implications if that
pathway isn't extended and he is here today. Finally, I have received two forms of
written testimony since the last year. One was a letter from Dorothy Pathow, dated
November 30th, and an a-mail with attachments from AI Wallace dated December 14th.
With that I'll turn the mike over to Steve Siddoway, unless the Council has questions.
De Weerd: Council, any questions for Caleb?
Bird: I have none.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Borton: Caleb, looking at the staff report, is there also a rezone application that's being
resolved today in conjunction with the appeal?
Siddoway: Madam Mayor, Councilman Borton, no, the applicant has filed a rezone
application for this site, but that has not even been to the Planning and Zoning
Commission yet.
Borton: Okay.
De Weerd: Okay. Anything else, Council? Steve.
Siddoway: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, it's my understanding there were
some questions at the last hearing looking for some input from park's perspective about
the proposed micropath on the north part of this site. The closest city park to this project
is Heroes Park, which sits approximately a half mile to the north. What -- and there is an
existing micropath stub from the -- the subdivision north of it connecting to the -- to the
site. Heroes Park sits just off the -- off the map up here. But the existing micropath stub,
being extended to the site, one, would allow residents of this subdivision to get onto the
sidewalk system and up to the -- the park, should they so choose, or it could also
function as an access for residents of the subdivision to get through this project to the
commercial that's proposed to the south of it. Finally, the -- if someone living in the
Lochsa Falls Subdivision were to have a friend that lived in this development and they
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December 18, 2007
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wanted to access it, you know, they would have the ability to connect to it through that
micropath without going out and around and in. But that's -- that's the function that the
micropath would serve from my --from our perspective. Without it, the folks living in this
development would go out to the street and up to the park that way or folks would go
down to the commercial access to the south using sidewalks along the collector road,
as opposed to through the project. And with that I'll stand for any questions.
De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Rountree: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Siddoway: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. We will ask the developer to present first, so the appellant has an
opportunity to know what they are responding to. And each will be given ten minutes.
If you can face it towards the audience, we can generally see.
Thowless: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, my name is Wayne Thowless, LKV
Architects, 2400 East Riverwalk Drive, Boise, representing Rudeen Development.
Thank you for the opportunity to respond to the conditions set at the last Public Hearing.
I'd like to start tonight first by calling your attention to the materials I handed out. The
color rendition on those is not real accurate, because they are reduced so much, but I
do want you to have those in your hands, since there are so many buildings involved.
As you have questions you can refer to those. The color rendition in the Powerpoint
images is also not real accurate, so I have these large boards here, which I will speak to
shortly. I'd like to start tonight by showing you a few photographs of the neighborhood
and the architecture that we are trying to be sensitive to and .emulate in the apartment
buildings of the Selway development. all these photographs were taken, except for the
few at the end, of other apartment complexes within just a couple blocks of the subject
site. Please note the different siding materials. There is vertical board and batten and
this particular house there is some shingle treatment, horizontal wood siding and
masonry accents typically in the form of stone. Some of the homes have some brick.
Next slide, please. Most of the homes are wood siding on the sides and the back, with
stucco and/or stone accents on the front. This home is right across the street from the
proposed apartment project and it utilizes, as you can see, a .mixture of stucco and
stone. More common pallet is stone or stucco on the front with siding on the other side.
Next slide, please. Here is a case where to comply with the covenants within the Kelly
Creek area, the homeowner or builder utilized stucco as the single accent material. The
covenants give the option of stone, brick, or stucco. You can see it is strictly an accent.
Most of the siding of the walls is a wood material. Next slide. Another case. Notice the
stone accent. I won't debate whether it's 40 percent or not as the covenants require, but
the rest of the siding is different wood materials. Please note the corballing, the little
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December 18, 2007
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projecting elements. That will be germane to my discussion in a few minutes. Next,
please. Here is the typical back and side of the homes in the area. Typically, one color
and one material. Next slide, please. Another home very close proximity to the project.
The slides that we just viewed, you noticed all of the colors were greens and that is not
an .uncommon accent color or full color of the homes in the area. Here is a home
directly across North Goddard Creek Way from our site. Notice the lack of any accent
materials or colors on the side. This, actually, faces the street. But it is the side of the
home. Next, please. Another home across from the subject site. Again, all siding on the
sides and the rear, single color, with the exception of the trim. The homes that are due
north of the project, again, same comments as before for the most part. Next slide.
There was conversation and discussion last week about the apartment complex in
Hobble Creek and the amount of masonry material on those buildings. This is a
photograph of a typical three story building there. It does have accents up those gabled
projecting portions of the building adjacent to the balconies and at the entrance
element. Next, please. The side elevations, some of them have some masonry material
as you can see here. Next, please. And some do not have anything. Next slide. This is a
rather high end apartment complex in Boise. It's on Park Center Drive right hear the
Albertson's headquarters and I show this to you, because this is a -- as I say, very high
quality project, but you will notice there are no accent materials whatsoever. The color
of the trim, the siding, everything is monochromatic. There are some differences in
siding material and pattern, but it's an attractive project that has no masonry or stucco
on it at all. We took very seriously the comments and the discussion of Council from the
last Public Hearing, as well as the neighbors. We went back to the drawing board, so to
speak, and we have revised the exterior elevations of every building in the project from
those elevations that have been previously submitted and discussed. Those elevations
are up here. As I said before, the color rendition is off on anything that we project, so
with Council's approval, I would like to put this board up to where you can see them and
can speak to the actual colors, if I may.
De Weerd: Council, if we have them put it over on this easel and use the highlighter.
Thowless: Would you prefer over there?
De Weerd: Yeah. Because, then, everyone can see it.
Thowless: Well, unfortunately, the light's not very good over there either, but we will do
our best. What we have done is our -this is one of the typical three story buildings.
Previously, we have stone accents at this location and this location and at the
breezeway entry element. In response to Council's request, we have increased the
amount of stone significantly by taking it up the entire element here adjacent to the
balconies, very much like you saw on the apartments at Hobble Creek. On the fronts of
the buildings, those that face the driveways that the user, the tenants will enter into the
breezeway and access their units, we have also placed stone around the patio area that
flanks the entrance, because that's the most highly visible portion of the building as
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December 18, 2007
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you're approaching it. On the back side of the building we have always had stone, but,
again, we have extended it all the way up those elements. Because people do not
typically come and go through the breezeways on the back side, we have also -- instead
of putting stone at those adjacent patio areas, we have put it on the ends of the building
and extended it around the corners of the first floor only. If we could go to the next slide,
please. This is another three story building. There are four total. There are two of these
buildings and they are not located adjacent to one another. This one has board and
batten accents, but the stone is in the same place as on the previous building. Next
slide, please. This one has -- back to horizontal siding, but the -- you will notice that the
colors are opposite of the previous building that we just looked at. Stone again. The
same locations and around the corners. I'd like to make the -- the point here that as you
saw in the pictures of the homes in the area, the architectural treatment and the nice
materials are typically limited to the front of the majority of those homes. At your request
and because we are endeavoring to do a quality project and we are taking your
comments and the neighbors concerns seriously, we are proposing accent colors,
alternating siding treatments, and some use of stone on all sides of all buildings. At the
Renaissance or the Hobble Creek apartments, there are garage buildings that have no
accent materials whatsoever. And as you saw there are some end elevations that have
no accentuation either. Next slide, please. This is one of the two story building types.
Again, it has the board and batten accents. Has stone on these elements adjacent to
the balconies at the breezeway entrance. At flanking bedrooms on the first floor. Similar
treatment on the back side. And stone wraps around on the side elevations a part of the
way. Next slide. This is one of the other two story buildings. Again, the color scheme is
different. The siding treatments are different. The stone is, basically, in the same areas.
Next slide. This is the two carriage unit buildings. We did a second design, so that all six
of them would not be identical. This was the original building here and this was the
alternate design that moved the balcony from the side to the elevation facing the
driveways. You notice in this building we have stone on the entire first floor between
and above the garage doors. We have stone accents on the back of the building. In
response to feeling that the buildings were too simple and rectangular, we increased the
number of gable roof elements to add architectural interest on both buildings, both front
and back. On this building here we put the stone in the center, taking it all the way up
both first floor and second floor. Stone accents on the rear. And, there is some stone on
the side elevations as well. With regard to this building, there was concern, I believe,
from Councilman Rountree that the building didn't have as much massing articulation as
some of the larger ones. Hopefully, what we have done with the roof lines and the
different materials and colors is satisfactory, but if it is not, we would be willing to
actually do an offset on these buildings where one apartment unit and the three garages
below it would remain in its present location and the other half of the building could be
shifted back two, three, four feet. We don't -- we aren't able to move any part of the
building forward, but we could move it back. And if that would be the Council's desire,
we would be happy to do that as well. The one caveat is, of course, that at least behind
that portion of those buildings that we might shift, it would reduce the landscape buffer
behind. But we would be happy to entertain that. Back to the slides of the buildings. This
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is the clubhouse, manager's unit building. A lot of stone on the front. Stone accents on
all other sides, as well as various siding treatments and the two tone color scheme.
Next slide. In the storage building -- our lowly storage buildings have added stone
accents to all four sides. I would like to mention that we did meet with three of the
neighbors who have been representing the neighborhood association today, this
afternoon. We showed them our work, these revised elevations. One suggestion was
made that perhaps this roof could incorporate another gable. We would be happy to do
that in response to their suggestion, if that pleased the Council. I'd like to go on record
again as stating that we are proposing to use hardy plank siding, both a narrow plank
and a wide plank, plus the vertical board and batten. We have the two tone color
scheme with a third color trim, as you see in the elevations. In response to the
neighbors' concerns about roofing, we have agreed to change the color to black and to
use architectural grade shingles, as opposed to standard three tab shingles. Next slide,
please. Okay. Do you not have on that CD the slide of the section? I can speak to the
board if you'd like, Caleb. I have got a board of it. Are you able to rotate it? There we go.
Thank you. This is an end view or a side view of one of the carriage units along the
north property line. You can see the section -- where the section is cut right there. One
of the concerns of the neighbors was headlight intrusion into their backyards. This is the
five foot fence that presently exists on the north property line. What we have done in
response to that concern is we took -- we have kept our same mixture of deciduous and
evergreen trees in the landscape buffer, but we have concentrated the evergreen trees
between the buildings, behind the parking stalls. We, actually, have typically Austrian
pines along the fence line. That's the tall tree illustrated here. In front of that we have a
Mugo pine, not the dwarf variety, but a full Mugo pine. And immediately in front of the
parking spaces we have incorporated Japanese holly, which is a broad leaf shrub, but it
does not lose its leaves. So, we have, basically, four levels of buffering for those
headlights and the parking spaces and in the driveways. And as you can see from that
-- that lane there which represents the top of the headlight beam, even when the trees
are relatively young and haven't reached mature height, they will still afford some
degree of buffering and all the materials are evergreen in nature, not deciduous. As you
heard in the staffs report, ACHD has requested that there be a condition of approval
that the developer provide the no parking signs on the street. The developer is happy to
do so. As we have stated in the past relative to the micropath that connects the
apartment project to the neighborhood that time north, if the city desires that, that's fine
with us. tf the city does not desire that, that's fine with us. We can go either way on that
issue. I think I have covered the major design modifications that we have made. We
believe that we have responded to the intent of the Council. There is a tabulation as
requested of the percentage of stone on each elevation at the back of your packet. We
have not achieved the 50 percent that was requested, but we believe that we have met
the intent of Council's request and looking at these buildings on the whole relative to the
neighboring homes, we believe that we have enhanced the project and have sensitively
related to the materials, the colors on the residential architecture in the area. So, we
would respectfully request approval of the design changes that we have made.
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De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Caleb, if you could go back to the carriage homes. It really doesn't have
anything to do with the desire per se, but the function.
Thowless: Okay.
Rountree: The garages associated with these units, will those be rented with those units
or will they be handled similar to the garage spaces in the individual garage units? In
other words, if I have got a young aspiring musician and I live around the corner and I
can rent one of those, so that I can have a garage band, is that going to happen?
Thowless: Iwas -- Councilman Rountree, I was about to acknowledge that you were on
the right track until you parted the part about the aspiring young musician with a rock
band. The garages are not specifically designated to go with the units above. They will
be rented to the renters in the units above, if those renters want to rent a garage or
garages. But they are also open to be rented by other renters in the apartment complex.
And I think it is safe to say that Rudeen Development will limit the use of those garages
to what garages are intended for, the storing of vehicles and belongings and not jam
sessions.
Rountree: Thank you. Another question, Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Rountree: I believe it was on the garage units itself or your storage buildings, you
indicated there was some discussion with the neighbors for some additional alteration of
the roof line. In what way and in what location were the discussions headed for those
changes?
Thowless: Councilman Rountree, Madam Mayor, I believe what they were looking at
was the long, unbroken nature of these roof plains that face east and west. In this
particular graphic the building is actually condensed. It's, actually, longer than that. And
I think what they were thinking might be a good attractive addition would be a gable
element on those long, unbroken roof planes and we would be happy to do that.
Rountree: Along the lines of a dormer?
Thowless: Yes. A dormer would be another way of referring to it. Uh-huh. Similar to the
elements that we added to the roof line on the carriage units themselves.
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Rountree: Would that be one per unit or one per building or --
Thowless: Councilman Rountree, there is only one of that building type.
Rountree: Okay.
Thowless: There is one storage building on the site. It's this purple building there. And
so it would only be a modification to that one building.
Rountree: How many dormers would you propose?
Thowless: One on each side. One on the east, one on the west.
De Weerd: Okay. Anything further?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: If you addressed it, I failed to catch it, I'm sorry, but the one issue of the
cross-access agreements that would be necessary here and here you will attempt to
provide those?
Thowless: Absolutely.
Zaremba: Okay.
De Weerd: You know, I guess I didn't know that those garage units were not associated
with the residents that would be in the building, which -- I don't know if the fire
department is concerned, but if those units have no property at risk, you know, do you
require -- do you have restrictions on what they can put in the garages, who oversees
that? I guess that would be my concern is maybe there is not a jam session going on in
the garage, but there may be hazardous materials, flammable material. We know a lot
of our house fires are started in the garage, in particular during fireworks season, but I
guess I just would say is there any oversight to that and how do you oversee that?
Thowless: Madam Mayor, I think I'd like to defer to Rudeen Development on that
question, if you'd like to post it to them. We do have representatives of the company
here and they could speak -- that sounds like a management type of question and
issue.
De Weerd: Okay. Since I didn't articulate it too well, I would imagine they will remember
my question that I asked. But, Council, any other questions at this point?
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Bird: I have none at this point.
Rountree: I have none.
De Weerd: Yeah. If we could have one of Rudeen's -- if you will, please, state your
name and address for the record.
Capen: Yeah. My name is Kurt Capen.. I work for Rudeen Development and my address
would 4707 East Upriver Drive, Spokane, Washington. That's where I office out of.
De Weerd: Okay.
Capen: To address your question, we do have onsite managers that control that. We
have lease agreements. We can -- we patrol it the best we can. Just like in a home you
can't always control what someone is storing in their garage. We try and police it as
cars, that's what we tell them, it's not meant for storage, it's meant for cars. We have
parking requirements is part of our parking requirements, we try to add amenities for
garages for tenants. We typically -- which Wayne doesn't necessarily know, but we
typically have one of these units go to the carriage unit, but the other two below each
carriage unit are not assigned to that one. But we do usually assign one to the unit
above that's usually under the master bedroom. They are protected with the -- you
know, fire safety breaks per code that would be. We certainly do have people to go
through, maintenance guys, you see them when they are open. When you see people
storing stuff in there, we contact them or write them a violation, we say you got to fix it:
You can do -- we comply with the laws that you have, it's either comply or vacate, and
you give them notice that you need to go with what is in your lease, which is that's a car
spot, not a spot for storage and flammable materials. So, we manage it by your on-site
manager being active in the neighborhood to kind of police, if you will, the whole area
and that's where our start is on keeping control on all the apartments we have is we
usually have an on-site manager that lives there and takes control of it and full-time
staff, meaning six days a week, if not sometimes on Sundays, depending on the market,
not just three or four hours a day here and there. Usually it's a full eight or ten hour day,
six days a week, because our goal is, obviously, to be open for renters, so that also
means you have someone there policing the site all the time. That's how we have done
it on a lot of the projects that we have in the past. Does that answer your question about
it, I mean how we police it? It's in your lease agreements, it's -- we try to enforce that
the, best you can. We don't always go in and break open doors and try and check it, but
when you see it as people go and come, we police it and write them up for that and ask
them to vacate it.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
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December 18, 2007
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Rountree: Along those lines -- and it was a question that came up previously about the
maintenance of the facility and I assume that any questions about maintenance of this
facility, if it were to happen, will be handled similar to what you just said?
Capen: As far as your ongoing maintenance, yes, your --
Rountree: Exterior maintenance and --
Capen: Yes.
Rountree: -- maintaining the landscaping, the condition of the buildings, that sort of
thing?
Capen: Correct. Our on-site manager would be responsible for that as well, daily
walking, picking up any garbage or trash that my blow out of something. Watching for
any gutters that slowly deteriorate or fall off, you fix them. It is our goal as well to have a
good looking project, because that is how we benefit as well, having good tenants stay
in there. It doesn't do us any good to have all kinds of tenants come in that don't care
about where they live. We enforce rules and make them care.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, follow up.
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Rountree: Do you establish any guidelines, criteria, standards, evaluation techniques,
checklists, et cetera, for your maintenance manager type folks so there is some quality
assurance?
Capen: Most of our -- you're talking about our -- in staff that will work there. All of our
staff would go through the. same criteria as far as criminal checks that we do with any
tenant, we check every tenant and all of our staff for criminal, any history of good
stature per person, if that's what you're talking about, and as far as their quality of work,
we, obviously, would check references much like you would with any job application, we
don't have 30 or 40 people that we are going to just bring here, we would have to go out
and apply and find out who's out there and probably go to other communities that we
think are good and look at recruiting those folks or finding out by word of mouth who is
good in this industry. And that's how you do it is you just go through an interview
process and -- to find your quality of maintenance person and it usually starts with your
on-site manager, which directs -- works directly with my boss, the owner, and myself
and other staff, to make sure that the project is always in top shape. So, that, again, is
our main goal as far as it providing an attractive place for people to come and rent.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
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December 18, 2007
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De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Rountree: Now I'm safe, what quality assurance -- my question is does your corporation,
your company, have in place architectural guidelines, cleanliness guidelines, clean and
green guidelines for what the place looks like and how it's going to be maintained, that
your managers are bound to and that they will implement?
Capen: We do have a manual, if you will, because we believe every project is different
in its own way. We have different projects in different areas. We have a continual
supervision of the owner or owners representative on site quite often, I would say on our
projects in Spokane it's three times a week. Down here I would imagine you'd probably
at least two or three times a month that we have the owners -- one of the owner
representatives on site and that's probably more active than a lot of apartments out
there. We do come to Boise quite often, so --
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Rountree: When you first started discussing what it is you do, you used the word you
usually do these things. Do you unusually not do them?
Capen: No, sir. I'm not actually -- we have two different sides of the company. We have
the development side, which has between 20 some employees and I am the CFO of
that company and I work that. We also have a management side that I know how they
operate, because I worked for them for 12 years and I see what they do, but I am not on
the management side, so I cannot exactly address what is in the leases, but I know
what they -- the intent is and I know with being around them and working with them, that
they do have leases. So, I'm saying usually, because I am not the -- I don't know the
exact letter of the law in the leases, but we do enforce those issues and we have leases
that are supposed to, but as far as the garages that you're going back to, I think to
enforce that they are for car parks.
Rountree: Madam Mayor? Then, would you or your company be opposed if the city put
some kind of stipulation that it's not a usual, but it will happen in the development
agreement that would -- or the Conditional Use Permit that would -- could be issued on
this project?
Capen: As far as which one those of parts? What I'm trying to say is are you saying you
would like to tell us how to maintain our project or just make sure that we enforce in the
leases that people do not do other activities, other than store a vehicle on a garage,
because I don't think we have a problem with that. That is our intent in our lease as well,
as far as the garages. They may also store a TV or a box or something, but the main
Meridian City Council
December 18, 2007
Page 26 of 87
goal is save room for your car, because that's where it's supposed to park. I don't think
we have a problem with that.
Rountree: And that you will have on-site managers and those sorts of things?
Capen: This is -- we do have on-site managers on probably 90 percent of projects. If
you have a good manager and they have their own home, I'm certainly probably not
going to disqualify them because they don't live on site. I don't know if that's legal, plus
wouldn't want to turn a good person away because they have their own home. But it is
our intent to have an on-site management staff, like we do 90 percent of our stuff.
Rountree: Thank you.
Capen: Any other questions?
De Weerd: Council?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor, before we move onto the appellant, I guess we are saying,
somewhere in there I thought there was a suggestion that some new issues were raised
by the fire department. Could we have comment on that either yeah or nay.
Niemeyer: Madam Mayor, I believe that the concerns raised would be from the public.
We have no concerns regarding this development. I have been in contact with Chief
Silva, the fire marshall. He has been in contact with Wayne today and according to him
all those issues have been resolved.
Zaremba: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Anything else, Council?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Would the appellant like to come forward?
Titerman: Thank you, Madam Mayor. My name is Glen Titerman. I live at 2432 West
Los Flores Drive here in Meridian. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Meridian City Council
December 18, 2007
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Titerman: I'll have to admit that these drawings are -- they go a lot farther in the idea
that we had for this development. Unfortunately, we still have 171 units, but that just
may be a discussion for another day. The fire -- the fire concerns -- I don't know if you
would be willing to open that up to a moment of discussion, but we have a resident who
is a local paramedic who has had some discussion with one of the fire chiefs, I believe,
in the area about a ladder truck that's on -- scheduled to be ordered. We have had
some concerns about -- in the past whether a ladder truck would be able to get in there
and get to the third floor effectively if that were, you know, something that -- that they
saw that it's important. One thing that I would say in the testimony for the carriage
houses, Wayne mentioned that the ability to maybe split those apart and offset by a few
feet, split into -- instead of one group of six garage doors on the bottom, two groups of
three. We would oppose that on a couple of issues. One is it's going to crowd the
homes behind it a little bit more by a few feet. The other is -- as I see it, it's going to
leave a few more feet in front of those garage doors for them to possibly try to sneak in
a vehicle and potentially impede on the fire safety zone as well. So, I would ask that that
not be a choice that you would agree to on that. Let's see. The only other thing -- it
came up in the last meeting. I haven't heard it this time around and maybe it's
something that's not possible, is we'd still like to see a right turn out of the Goddard
Creek entrance, sort of to protect Apgar being the straight shot over to Linder. That
would be something that we'd like to see. And, again, if you would be not opposed to
hearing what Brian has to say about the ladder truck, maybe some his testimony if -- it's
up to you.
De Weerd: Yeah. We can hear that. But I did have aquestion -- unless Tracy was going
to --
Titerman: No. Tracy has a lot to cover as well. She's got a bit and I've got a bit. So,
maybe Tracy could cover what she has and, then, you could ask questions of both of
us, if that would work.
De Weerd: Okay.
Fries: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Tracy Fries, 2787 West Wapoot,
Meridian. A couple of things. Like Glen said, the revised elevations are an obvious
improvement. We did meet with the -- with representatives from Rudeen this afternoon.
Much improved elevations. I would like to note, however, the pictures that Wayne
showed, while they are representative of our community, they are selected
representations of our communities and many of the homes do have much more in the
way of rock and stucco and do have it on multiple sides, my home being one of those,
and I would like you to take that into consideration when you look what they presented,
compared to what you requested. The ACHD changes regarding the parking -- no
parking on Goddard, we appreciate that. That's very helpful. The south access, to cross-
access, excellent, we do appreciate that. As far as the cross-sections, the screen to the
north, Wayne had a nice cross-section drawing there showing the landscape and how
Meridian City Council
December 18, 2007
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that has been changed to -- thank you, Caleb. To more appropriately address the
parking areas. We would just like to reiterate that we would hope that that will not
detract from the landscaping behind those apartments -- those carriage houses, that we
will be looking in those windows and such right into the homes in the backyards. We
understand it's a transfer of the deciduous and evergreen trees, but we'd like to make
sure that that screening is not lost on the other areas as well. As far as the pathway to
the north, I spoke with Mike Farlow from Valley Property Management, we are in a bit of
a unique situation right now in that Kelly Creek has just now been turned over to the
homeowners. Our board has not had an opportunity to meet in full yet, there are three
members. They will be meeting in January. The only -- so Mike cannot make a decision,
the board has to make a decision at this point, but they have not yet had that
opportunity. The only concern would be cost to that and how we would -- we would
absorb that cost. The general consensus of the community is that they would like to see
that pathway closed off. In the meeting this afternoon -- I'm not sure -- I believe it may
have been Kevin Rudeen; perhaps I'm incorrect, but one of them indicated that they
would be willing to pay for the fencing to cross that off, to close- off that section.
understand Mr. Siddoway's comments -- oh, he's gone. Comments regarding the park
access. As he did show -- do we have a pointer? Okay. Somebody show me -- is this
our access right here? Okay. This will go through into Kelly Creek. One reason would
be that it would allow access to the park right up here. Another would be that it would
allow these community members access to this proposed commercial in the future. I
don't think it's going to help us out much, because even if we come through here we still
have to go down and around their entire property to get through to that commercial.
Really no benefit to the community members in Kelly Creek or coming out of Verona
into Kelly Creek. I don't think it's asking too much to access -- there is sidewalks -- a
sidewalk system in place and beautifully landscaped right along here on Goddard. The
only community members who would have a further walk would be these ones .right
here in those carriage homes. So, we are looking at one, two, three, four -- eight
residences that rather than being able to access there, can go out to Goddard where
you can access the sidewalk system. Then, those of us who are residents of Wapoot
do not have to worry about those late night parking visitors that are going to park on our
street and cut through to those apartments, the big concern for many of the families that
have young children on that street. Like I said, Rudeen said they are willing to pay for
the fencing to close that off and the Kelly Creek homeowners association board will be
meeting in January and they can give you a detailed explanation as to how they would
handle that property. But as it stands they currently take care of the landscaping and
upkeep, it's just a matter of the sidewalk, whether that would stay or be removed and
whether or not that property would be kept as part of the community property or folded
into the two existing home sites that are there at this point. Also, would like to note that
we appreciate Kevin Rudeen and representative agreeing to the architectural singles.
One concern we did have is that in the staff report -- Caleb, perhaps you can help me
out on this. There is a point where -- perhaps you can help me out, Glen. There is a
point where something was deleted by Planning and Zoning. We were comfortable with
that, but the deletion went too far and it crossed out the minimum three inch caliper for
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December 18, 2007
Page 29 of 87
trees and that was not the intent of that meeting, according to the minutes. And we'd like
to insure that that is not a loophole that eventually we wind up paying the price for as a
community. So, if somebody could just insure that the landscape -- it is, actually, the
landscaping to be in place prior to occupancy and Rudeen asked that it be just on a
building by building basis, rather than completely along the north and west boundary
and I believe the deletion was just accidentally carried too far and if we could address
that as a community we would be much more comfortable. And (believe -- other than
like Glen said, the 171 units, which this is not the forum for, that concludes the concerns
that I had.
Titerman: I have one other that I forgot.
De Weerd: Just for the record --
Titerman: Glen Titerman.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Titerman: We have asked the gentlemen at Rudeen and Wayne about the colors. We
would just, again, reiterate that we would ask that they either choose colors from the
current Bridgetower color pallets for this plan or submit their colors choices to the Kelly
Creek association for -- for approval, which is either/or is exactly what we all had to do
as homeowners. So, not to criticize their color choice in any way, we would just like to
see that that is agreed upon either by the association or chosen from an existing color
pallet. And (guess --
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Hey, Glen, why don't -- before we have additional testimony, that we ask
Council if they have any questions for you all. We can ask him to testify under his --
Titerman: Fair enough. Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions for Glen or Tracy?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Rountree: Question for Tracy. And you lost me with your comments about the
Landscaping and the three caliper and the north and south -- or north and west to be
done prior to occupancy, what was the point you were making?
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December 18, 2007
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Fries: Excellent, Councilman Rountree. Thank you, Caleb. I appreciate your finding that.
If you note on -- it looks like is it -- my eyes are a little bit older than the rest of me.
Hood: It's the first bullet point in condition 1.1.4 near the end. And I believe that -- Bill
Parsons prepared these -- these regs and I believe that you're correct that he just got a
little too strike through happy with that. The -- but those were deleted by the Planning
and Zoning Commission. However, the three inch caliper, which is the second half of
that sentence, should be still intact as a condition. So, if the Council so chooses to
approve this project, we will amend that condition to reflect that they do need some
three inch caliper trees in there. That was just an error on staffs part preparing the
recommendation for the Planning and Zoning Commission.
Fries: Thank you, Caleb. Does that clarify that issue?
Rountree: Well, yes, it clarifies that point. Now, I believe the testimony was made by
Rudeens last meeting that they had indicated three inch caliper materials.
Fries: Excellent. Thank you.
De Weerd: Any other questions from Council?
Bird: I have none.
Borton: No.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Fries: Thank you.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Okay. Yes.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this hearing was continued for only those
specific purposes that were raised, so you can't take new testimony on new evidence.
We can only do it on what was continued for the purpose of what was brought up by the
planning staff and what's been addressed by the applicant and the appellant. So, the
issue that's being proposed to be presented now isn't appropriate for this hearing.
Person: I believe the fire chief was asked questions and this speaks directly to the fire.
De Weerd: I'm sorry, at this point I don't know what I'm supposed to do.
Person: This speaks directly to the fire department and that was --
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December 18, 2007
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Nary: No, you can't bring it up.
De Weerd: I'm sorry; sir, you can't comment yet.
Nary: It wasn't brought up -- it wasn't -- the purpose of this hearing was for the five
points that were articulated by the planning staff. The only reason Deputy Chief
Niemeyer was asked that was because it was the belief of the Council that there was an
issue from fire. He said there isn't an issue from fire, so there isn't any testimony
necessary and that's not what it was continued for, so they can't take new testimony on
different issues than what was -- it was continued for.
Bird: Madam Mayor, this was the exact thing I said is we'd get this thing open and it
would be another six hour public testimony. We -- specifically what we were going to
talk about and that's it, so -- and wasn't part of it.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I guess on this particular topic, it is an important topic and I
don't think we need to make light of it. However, our fire chief and our assistant fire chief
and our additional assistant fire chief have assured us that all fire code will be met, all
fire requirements will be met, all fire issues will be met by the applicant before the
application would more forward. So, that's been testified by our own staff. All three of
our chiefs and assistant chiefs, so I'm comfortable that they know what they are doing.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. And I apologize. Okay. We will accept testimony based on
the five items that it was continued on, so -- I do have a number of people that did sign
up to indicate their opposition of this project. Rather than reading off each name, I will
enter it into the record. I would ask if anyone has testimony to, please, come forward at
this time. If you will, please, state your name and address for the record.
C.Fries: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Chris Fries, 2787 West Wapoot. Was
one of the individuals present today at the meeting with Rudeen. I did find that they did
make a large effort to improve the building -- the outsides to the community. They also
kept commenting that it's in regards to -- you know, it's comparison to what we have
now. I feel it is similar, but taking what you all have said at the prior meeting, requesting
50 percent stone or stucco, in looking by -- at these numbers that you guys all have,
some of these buildings only have seven percent stone or stucco on one side. I feel that
they could have gone a little farther into it. You know, they have made the comment that
they looked like a castle if they went with too much stone and that is fine, but I think they
could have also gone a lot more with stucco. If you look at all the commercial that is
being developed right now in the area -- and I know that this is, quote, unquote,
residential, but it's commercial to these people. This is a business, this is how they
make money, and I feel that it needs to be better than what is there now. It needs to
stand out and above that, because, you know, I know they said they wanted it to blend
in, but three story apartment buildings are not going to blend in with any of the
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December 18, 2007
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surroundings. And that's -- you know, Ijust -- I'm going by what you all have asked from
the developer and I don't see that on any one of their buildings -- on any side of the
buildings, for that matter. I would just -- you know, I guess my request is that you uphold
what you requested from them and, you know, as a service to the community to make
this better than anything that has been built here to this point. Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay, sir.
Hessing: My name is Matt Hessing, 2745 West Wapoot Drive, Meridian.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Hessing: I'd like to reiterate the comments that I made in the last session about the path
-- the access path to the north from the proposed project. There has been a lot of great
testimony about it. I know that Rudeen is -- is willing to forego the path. I'd just like to
make the voice heard again from the neighbors, especially the large majority of
neighbors that have small children. The main concern is the amount of traffic that will
come onto Wapoot of cars being parked from visitors and the majority of people that
would be using the path from the apartment project. It is a concern to the neighbors. We
have small children and it's very difficult to keep tabs on them as it is. If the path were to
be there, I feel that it would cause some severe discomfort to me and my family, as well
as our neighbors with our children. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, Matt. Okay. Any further testimony? Okay. Will ask for wrap-up
remarks first by the developer and, then, final word to the appellant.
Thowless: Wayne Thowless, LKV Architects, 2400 East Riverwalk Drive, Boise. Madam
Mayor, Members of the Council, regarding a few of the neighbors' comments that have
been made, first, let me address the issue of percentage of stone or masonry or stucco
accents. We are not proposing any stucco on the buildings. The reason for that is that
stucco is an expensive material, like stone or like brick, but it does not hold up as well
as stone or brick and it does incur -- entail ongoing maintenance. Stone or brick does
not. So, we made the conscious decision that all of the accent material that we wanted
to propose would be stone to look better and require less maintenance over time. To
increase significantly those percentages beyond what we have shown, we do believe
would be -- create architecture that would be out of character with the neighborhood
and would be castle or fortress looking. There is such a thing as too much of a good
thing and generally in this region of the country, when stone and masonry is used on
buildings, it's used as an accent, not a primary construction material, like brick is back
east where they build whole buildings out it typically. With regard to the color issue and
the request that our final color choices be subject to the review of the homeowners
association or be limited specifically to the specific colors that are mentioned in the
CC&Rs of the surrounding subdivision, I just respectfully remind Council that the
CC&Rs do not apply to our project. We believe that from day one the color pallet that
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December 18, 2007
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we have chosen is complimentary to the colors that are being used in the adjacent
neighborhoods and we would respectfully request that if you agree with that, that you
approve our elevations and design as submitted and that we not be subjected to
another level of approval of our project. I would like to also reiterate that it is with great
expense that we are willing to take the architectural treatments on these buildings to all
four sides of all buildings, whether they face a property line or the neighborhood or a
street or not, that is something that you typically do not see in single residential
architecture, multi-family residential architecture, commercial architecture. The
emphasis and the money is spent on the sides of facilities that face the public way. And
we are going way beyond that in our proposal and we are doing it willingly and we
believe in the interest of making it a better quality project, making it harmonize with the
neighborhood and in response to your specific requests of us. We believe that we have
come up with an architectural concept that may not meet the letter of your request to us,
but definitely meets the spirit of it and results in a better quality architecture than if we
had just simply gone by the numbers and put enough stone on there to achieve your
request of us. I'd be happy to stand for any further questions.
De Weerd: Council? Yes, Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Madam Mayor. It was stated apparently during a meeting this afternoon that
there was a willingness on your part to fence the north pathway if it were determined
that that north pathway was no longer needed.
Thowless: Absolutely. That is correct, Councilman Rountree.
Rountree: Okay. And with respect to your comments on color -- just anticipating. Who
would judge the complimentary aspect of color? The complimentary color chart? Would
that be something the city staff would have a hand in -- I'm not saying that because I
don't trust you, because if it happens and it becomes an issue, then, that's a question,
who's the judge.
Thowless: Councilman Rountree, Madam Mayor, we have previously submitted a large
color board with actual physical samples of materials and colors on them. Since the last
Public Hearing, since we have been asked to come back, the elevations that we have
shown you have toned down those colors just slightly. The tan is a little more tope than
we are showing now. The green is a little more gray than that color board. But we would
have -- we would be happy to work with staff through the certificate of zoning
compliance process or the building permit application process, show them new physical
samples, show them that they meet the intent of what went through Planning and
Zoning and would have been shown to the neighbors previously and handle it that way.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, there was a comment made that there might be a potential to
lose the screening to the north behind the carriage homes. I didn't see that in your -- in
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December 18, 2007
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your drawing. That's not an intent with the change in the shrubbery that you have
proposed?
Thowless: Madam Mayor, Councilman Rountree -- Caleb, could we have that section
graphic back, if it's not too difficult. Within the landscape buffer along the north and west
property lines we have not changed the -- our pallet in terms. of the mixture of trees or
the quantity of trees in any way. All we have done reposition with, the majority of the
evergreens being between buildings and more deciduous behind the buildings. I guess
that can be argued whether that was an appropriate decision, but the -- there are very
few windows on the north side of those carriage units. The bedrooms, the living room,
the dining room, all face into the project, not toward the homes. There is a small
bathroom window. There is one small bedroom window that looks out that way, but the
primary concern seems to be headlights and within the parking lot and the parking stalls
and so we addressed that concern.
Rountree: Thank you
Thowless: Thank you.
De Weerd: I guess I did have a question on the carriage houses, which are the buildings
that are the least in rock accent, because most of it's garage doors, but -- so, we did see
another project recently that used different treatment in the garage doors as more their
accent and can -- can you maybe bring some of that accent through the garage doors --
and Idon't know, I'm still stuck on the safety of those garages and if you put windows in
them, which that's for Mr. Bird. If you put windows in anything it's better; right? But you
do add to the ability to see in there and that's okay if you want to answer it, rather than
your representative. So, I would ask if that would be another way of accomplishing that.
Thowless: Madam Mayor, if I may ask for clarification. If I understand what you're asking
is whether we would be willing, instead of having a rather plain utilitarian garage door on
those units, to --
De Weerd: I couldn't have said it better myself.
Thowless: -- to use a more decorative garage door in a color that's complimentary to the
buildings and consider the incorporation of a small amount of glass lights, so that there
could be visibility into the unit if somebody was suspicions of something being in there
that shouldn't. Does that summarize your concern?
De Weerd: Perfectly said.
Thowless: Okay. Rudeen Development would be willing to -- to do that, yes.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any other questions?
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December 18, 2007
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Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay.
Thowless: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Titerman: Excuse me. Madam Mayor, Councilmen. Glen Titerman. We just want to
thank you for your time on this issue and we trust that you will make the best decision
and we leave it in your hands. Thank you very much.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Council, would you like to have discussion before you
close the Public Hearing, just in case you might need further information?
Rountree: Just in case we might need to. That would be fine.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I guess I could express some opinions on what has been presented. I think
the revised elevations are a considerable improvement over what we saw before. I do
understand that we asked them to present something to us that showed at least 50
percent stone work. The element that would satisfy me about this, even though they
have not achieved the 50 percent stonework, it isn't that 31 percent of it is stonework
and 69 percent of it is exactly the same on the rest of it. There are, within the remainder
that's not architectural or accent stone, other materials that vary and so I -- they have
achieved the variety that I would be looking for, even though it isn't 50 percent stone.
There are varieties of articulation, varieties of materials. I'll have to admit that the
Renaissance apartments at Hobble Creek are not particularly attractive to me. I think
that's too much brick. So, on the one subject I'm not so stuck that we have to go all the
way to 50 percent, I think they have done other things that do that variation. I like the
Mayor's idea that there should be windows on the garage doors in the carriage units. I
like the applicant's offer to have gables or dormers along the long roof plane of the
maintenance building. Applicant has agreed that they will be the installers of the no
parking signs along Goddard at their cost and as directed by ACHD. They have agreed
to provide the cross-access agreements. They have provided by re-arranging the
landscaping I think better screening of headlights to the north., And I do agree that -- I
generally would come down on the side of saying we need to have the pathway
connections and I understand the reason for them. In this particular case, I go the other
way. I can see the problem with people wanting to park in front of the larger homes and
just walk through the pathway and I could see that becoming a problem, who's
Meridian City Council
December 18, 2007
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accessing back and forth through that at what hours of the night. If it were just the
purpose -- if you could limit it to just children that needed to walk toward the park, that's
necessary. But the opposite problem that is presented makes me consider this an
exception and I would support the idea of the applicant putting a fence across there and
closing that access. I think that's my opinion on the subjects.
De Weerd: Additional comment? Discussion?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Looking through my pages of notes and issues and concerns and I do think
that a number of the concerns that I expressed last time have been addressed. I still
have a bit of concern on quality assurance and continued quality maintenance --
De Weerd: I'm sorry, your time is up.
Rountree: Thank you, Madam Mayor. It's time for a break. So, that I believe is
something that if we move forward with this we need to craft some language that -- that
-- and possibly the -- Rudeen has language to that effect in their corporate structure.
There have been some things brought up this evening, paying for the fence on the north
pathway. I am a firm believer in interconnectability of neighborhoods. I'm really torn
about do you have them or not in this situation. I guess I could side the way Dave did,
that it not happen and we have got a commitment from Rudeen that they would fence
that off. I assume in a like fence. There has been comments made about adding
additional -- either dormers or dormer-like additions onto their storage building. I think
that would help that particular plain building, even though there is only one and it
probably is only internal to the project. I concur with the Mayor's comments about the
garage doors and I think some of the garage doors we see nowadays are -- on homes
are actually nicer looking than some of the homes they are on. So, I think there is a
possibility to improve that particular facade. I'm a little concerned about the availability
of a space underneath a rental property that could be rented to someone else that's not
living space. I can see that that could created multiple problems. I'd like to hear more
about that at some point in time or research more about that at some point in time to
see if they really are problems, but, apparently, as the applicant has indicated, at least
one of those units is usually lease -- in the lease agreement. I would say that in this
particular case at least one of those units will be if it moves forward. I think a good
number, if not all, with the exception of color, have been addressed as far as the design
elements. The landscaping and the cross-sections helped explain to me what it was you
were trying to accomplish. Thank you. One thing that was brought up at the last hearing
and is not actually part of this hearing, but a part of our discussion is the concern of
construction workers in a construction site management and construction equipment --
equipment and material storage and there was an indication that there would be either
Meridian City Council
December 18, 2007
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an easement or an agreement reached on the property to the south that would
accommodate that. I would certainly ask that that be included in the CUP to make sure
that the construction workers, if it goes forward, would be required to park in that area
and not on street in the neighborhood. I can't and apparently a previous Council did
already address the density in this particular application. I think the question was asked
about a right turn only on Goddard, even though you could paint and island and raise
berm and median and all that sort of thing, but you can't stop it, they are public streets.
Mr. Inselman is here tonight, if we want to hear about public streets. There is public
safety issues with the streets, there are engineering design problems with streets,
ACRD will take care of those, ACHD will do the design and engineering and operations
and maintenance and City of Meridian's public safety, traffic safety commission, which
ultimately would report to the City Council and it's through the police department on
speeding issues. In my mind those are always issues. They are issues in everybody's
neighborhoods. They are issues that every neighborhood needs to consider and it's not
just the new people in the neighborhood, it's all of you here this evening and it's all of
your neighbors that will either make that successful or not. So, you can engineer all you
want and you can paint all you want, but it's not going to go away. I guess that's all I
have to say in terms of discussion and things that I have seen and observed, heard.
Madam Mayor -- and I very much appreciate the public on this particular application and
process. It's tough for them and I got to tell you it's tougher for us. But the way you have
approached the Council, very professionally, very open. Hopefully, we have been open
and professional with you. Sometimes I get a little caustic with people, but that's me. I
just want to get to the answers that satisfy my questions. But, again, all of you folks -- i
don't know what the outcome's going to be, we will probably know in the next half an
hour, but I appreciate the way you have handled yourself, both the citizens of Meridian
and the folks that are interested in providing another housing medium for the City of
Meridian. So, .that's my last comment.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: First of all, I don't believe I have ever seen an applicant come back and come as
close to what we have asked and I certainly appreciate that and I -- I certainly
understand. I'm like Charlie, I appreciate the public coming out. They have been very
professional about it and we all don't like it in our backyards, you know. I happen to be
an oldtimer that's had 1,800 people here when I moved to Meridian and I have seen a
lot of not in my backyard. I do think they have dressed it up. I almost wish that we could,
on demand on houses, as much stone and brick as we are demanding on these people,
because while a lot of homes do have a lot of brick, a lot of them don't. Or stone. So,
that's up to everybody's own taste. Trafficwise, being from Old Town, we have traffic
speeding problems and don't have any new developments. That all comes -- and the
Meridian City Council
December 18, 2007
Page 38 of 87
more you get in, the more you're going to have. You have already got it out there and
I'm sure with 171 units you're going to have a little more of it. That's what our police are
for, to stop it down. But I just want to thank the public and the applicant for being so
professional about getting this done and it isn't easy to sit up here and say yea or nay.
But we -- I feel I have to do what I feel is best for the community as a whole. That's all I
have got.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: There is not much left to say. You know, I do agree with the remarks of all three
Councilmen up here and in particular praise for the public. For those that don't come
every Tuesday, sometimes there is applications that come before us and we hear an
applicant say -- they promised X and the public say, no, when we met they promised Y,
and it seems silly, but that's a problem we are faced with a lot and this project we didn't
hear that. We haven't heard that type of disagreement and allegations of dishonesty. I
think Glen and Tracy in particular I applaud your efforts to work on this project on behalf
of the community and those in the room. I think there has been some great
improvements. Councilman Zaremba and Rountree in particular listed, quite frankly, a
laundry list of improvements that when we continued this matter there was two ways
this could have gone and one is could have been continued disagreement and come
back fighting or some progress. So, it sounds like both parties are to be commended for
the progress. You know, of the list of issues for me, the connectivity on the pathway is --
I didn't expect that to be as difficult an issue. I am really really supportive of as much
connectivity in this entire city as possible. And you could argue this one either way. You
really could. It's a tough one. After Councilman Zaremba's comments I envisioned
asking Rudeen to install a little person with a little arm that says if you're taller than this
you can't pass by. Something theme park oriented for it. As silly as that is, it's really --
that's the only thing you could do to try and keep its use for its intended purpose. So,
that's a tough one. The pathway. Because I am -- I'm supportive of it, but I understand
the public's concerns. I appreciate the applicant's willingness to do whatever this
Council deems appropriate. So, those are my comments at the time.
De Weerd: Council, I guess I just have a couple of comments and maybe, first, a
question for Caleb. On the landscaping and fencing around the perimeter, is this
installed before the first building permit?
Hood: Madam Mayor, Council members, I had that up. Let me pull that condition up to
see exactly how that's worded currently, based on the Planning and Zoning
Commission's conditions.
De Weerd: Okay. And I guess just a point to reaffirm something I said last -- earlier this
month. And that was regarding the circulation and the number of buildings before
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December 18, 2007
Page 39 of 87
another access was put in and I know the fire department has agreed that an
emergency access on Goddard -- or Goddard, whatever it's called -- is sufficient. I think
we need to look at that as a city, because I disagree and I'm not the fire official, but it
does concern me the emergency access is on the same road as the primary and that
we don't have any restriction for another access on a different road when you look at the
number of buildings and the number of units that are going to go in there. That is a
concern to me and I would like to see a requirement that there is another access
through one of the stubs to the south, but I don't think -- well, Council can do that if they
deem it possible, but that is a concern. And the last piece is also something I brought up
at the last one. We did asked the ACHD to make comment on the improvements in that
area of the intersections at McMillan and Linder and the intersection improvement at
McMillan and Ten Mile. I do think there needs to be a coordination of the timing of those
improvements, because they are in the near future and occupancy of these apartments.
So, I will limit my own comments to just those for your consideration as you look to
approve this and it looks like Caleb has found it.
Hood: Yeah. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, if you -- I don't know if you can
see that or not. I'll read it to you. It's condition 1.1.20 and it does say prior to obtaining
the first certificate of occupancy all landscaping along the north and west property lines
shall be installed. And, then, it goes on. Prior to obtaining any occupancy for any
building, all development improvements, such as irrigation, parking and landscaping
shall be installed on that building site. So, basically, the perimeter stuff needs to be in
before the first occupancy, then, the landscaping and parking and such around each
building needs to be in before that particular building receives a certificate of
occupancy.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you, Caleb. Okay. Council, any additional information or
discussion?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Hearing none, I move we close the Public Hearing on AP 07-009.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to close the Public Hearing on this. All
those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
Meridian City Council
December 18, 2007
Page 40 of 87
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: If I might ask counsel for general information. What -- what form of motion are
we -- we would either reject the Conditional Use Permit. We would accept the Planning
and Zoning's conditions. We would create new conditions or we would modify Planning
and Zoning conditions. Am I right on all of those?
Nary: Councilmember Rountree, you're right on all of those.
Rountree: Okay.
Nary: The Council's decision point now -- this was an appeal of the Planning and Zoning
-- or, excuse me, a review of the Planning and Zoning, so the Conditional Use Permit is
in front of you. The option of this Council is to move to approve with the conditions as
were presented by Planning and Zoning and the staff, to move for approval with the
conditions modified as you wish, based on the testimony that you received both tonight
and at the prior hearing irr front of you. Or move to deny with direction to the applicant
as to what conditions they just need to be approved. So, you have three choices.
De Weerd: You guys are better at waiting than I am. Is there any additional information
needed or --
Zaremba: I believe we are waiting for Councilman Rountree to take the stab at it.
Rountree: I'm stabbing away. Just give me a minute.
Zaremba: You can't see it, but he's furiously making notes.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we approve the Conditional Use Permit conditions made by
Planning and Zoning with modifications specific to the commitments made by Rudeen,
comments made by Council and staff addressing the concerns of the citizens and on
those areas that there has not been a decision, that the Council not require the
connection of the north pathway and that would be -- that pathway from Wapoot Street
would be fenced at the expense of Rudeen. The modification of the roof elevation for
the Building H, I believe is its moniker -- Building H to add either a dormer or alterations
to the gable as discussed with the neighborhood. That the CUP require off-site parking
and storage of construction materials and equipment in -- for parking to the south of this
site. The removing of the stricken portion of the landscape requirement and putting back
in the findings -- or the permit the requirement of a three inch caliper .material. And that
the applicant provide staff its business plan, its maintenance guidelines, and assurance
Meridian City Council
December 18, 2007
Page 41 of 87
that there will be an on-site -- that there will be an on-site presence, not necessarily
living, but presence of facilities operation staff and facilities maintenance staff at least
six days a week. That the ground level garage -- one ground level garage unit below the
carriage house will be part of the lease to the upper level carriage home. Madam Mayor,
I believe everything else that we discussed was agreed to, so that would be part of the
first part of my motion, so --
Bird: Mr. Rountree, before I second this, the date of the elevations that we are going on
is December 7th, 2007, am I not right?
Rountree: That's the correct date on the elevations and that those elevations need to be
included as part of a Conditional Use Permit.
Bird: Okay. I will second it, then.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Discussion. I did not hear the addition of -- or requirement of windows on the
garage doors on the carriage units.
Rountree: I believe we had testimony to the effect that that will be done. That was part
of my motion.
De Weerd: Okay. Any additional discussion?
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Council Members, Councilmember Rountree, the -- Madam Mayor
had brought up the intersection improvements and that was discussed at the prior
hearing. Is that part of your motion? I don't believe those were part of the staffs
recommendation, so I didn't know if you wanted that included or not.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, Iwould -- I would add to my motion that staff work with the
fire department to establish the maximum number of units that could be occupied before
an established secondary access to the south is created. As far as the intersection
improvements, those are already agreed to by other applicants and Ada County
Highway District, so I don't make that part of my motion.
Bird: Second agrees.
Meridian City Council
December 18, 2007
Page 42 of 87
De Weerd: Okay. Anything further from Council? Okay. Mr. Beg, will you call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Council, I'll call a ten minute recess.
(Recess.)
Item 9: Public Hearing: CPA 07-012 Request for an amendment to the
Comprehensive Plan Future Land Use Map to change the land use
designation from Low Density Residential to Commercial for Strada
Bellissima Commercial by Strada Bellissima Commercial, LLC -NWC of
Meridian Road and Victory Road at 114 and 156 West Victory Road (Lots
2 & 3, Block 2, Strada Bellissima No. 1 Subdivision):
Item 10: Public Hearing: IZZ 07-013 Request for a Rezone of 1.76 acres from L-O
to C-N zone for Strada Bellissima Commercial by Strada Bellissima
Commercial, LLC -NWC of Meridian Road and Victory Road at 114 and
156 West Victory Road (Lots 2 & 3, Block 2, Strada Bellissima No. 1
Subdivision):
De Weerd: Okay. I'll go ahead and continue the meeting tonight. Our next public
hearings are Items 9 and 10 on CPA 07-012 and RZ 07-013. I will open these two public
hearings with staff comments.
Hood: Thank you, Madam Mayor and Members of the Council. The subject 1.76 acre
site is located on the north side of Victory Road just west of Meridian Road. The
property is currently zoned L-O and designated for low density residential on the future
land use map, which you can see on this map, which is our Comp Plan currently. This
property, as well as the surrounding properties are all designated low density residential
and that is, as you mentioned earlier, one of the applications the applicant is seeking to
change their designation. Here is the zoning map for the subject site. The site is
currently zoned L-O, as I mentioned, as well as the frontage lots along Meridian Road
there in the Strada Bellissima project and those lots are developing out with office,
professional office space. I believe they are a little more than half built right now. There
is -- they continue to pull building permits through the city. The other adjacent land uses
are, primarily single family homes in Strada Bellissima in various phases. Phase one is
to the north. To the south there are some vacant properties and some properties that
have homes in the county. You see the white properties, they are still Ada county and
have not been annexed into the city. To the east across Meridian Road is Double D and
the Emerson Park project, which those findings were on earlier tonight. Again, the
applications are a Comprehensive Plan map amendment to change the future land use