HomeMy WebLinkAbout2007 12-18Meridian City Council Meetin4 December 18, 2007
A meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 7:10 p.m., Tuesday,
December 18, 2007, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd., Keith Bird, Charlie Rountree, Joe Gorton
and David Zaremba.
Others Present: Bill Nary, Will Berg, Caleb Hood, Tracy Basterrechea, Mark Niemeyer,
Clint Dolsby, Keith Watts, Steve Siddoway, Elroy Huff, Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call..
X David Zaremba X Joe Borton
X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
De Weerd: Okay. I'll go ahead and start tonight's meeting. Thank you for your patience.
We got late in our pre-meeting and so we appreciate you all being here with us tonight.
We will start tonight's meeting. It is Tuesday, December 18th -- it's ten minutes after
7:00 -- with roll call attendance. Mr. Berg.
Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance:
De Weerd: Item No. 2 is the pledge of allegiance.. Tonight we will be led in the pledge by
Alex and Taylor. They are with Troop 191 and it's sponsored by the LDS Hunter Ward..
Please rise.
(Pledge of allegiance recited.)
Item 3: Community Invocation by Pastor Darrell Taylor with Cherry Lane:
De Weerd: Good luck with your citizen badges. Okay. Item No. 3 is our community
invocation. We will be led tonight by Pastor Darrell Taylor. He is with Ten Mile Christian
Church. If you will all join us in the community invocation or take this as an opportunity
for a moment of reflection.
Taylor: Well, gracious Father in Heaven, we are truly thank for the many blessings you
have given us. Just thinking about the scouts that are -- that led us in the prayer or the
allegiance, and, Father, what a blessing it is to be in this country, the freedoms that we
have. Father, ask your blessings upon this meeting. Father ask that your wisdom will
prevail and that the meeting will go well, Father, for the rain and the snow. We just
thank you., Lord, for this time when we think back in a time in Bethlehem when the little
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December 18, 2007
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baby that has turned this world upside down, for love and for compassion for those here
in this land and we just thank you, in Jesus' name, amen.
Item 4: Adoption of the Agenda:
De Weerd: Thank you, Pastor Taylor. Okay. Item 4 is adoption of the agenda.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: We have a couple of adjustments to the agenda and that would on the
Consent Agenda, Item J, the resolution number is 07-590. Item K, the resolution
number is 07-791. On Item AA, on page four, if anybody's following, Item AA, the
amount of the contract is 2,425 dollars. Item CC has been requested to pull from the
Consent Agenda and be put on the regular agenda at Item 7. Under Department
Reports, Item 6, there is a request to add an Item 6-D, a report from the Mayor's office
regarding the state of the city sponsorship levels. Item 7 we will add what was
previously Item CC -- 5-CC. And at the end of the agenda we will add an Item 18, which
is an Executive Session per Idaho State Code 67-2345(1)(a). And I believe that
constitutes the agenda.
Bird'.: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Bird: Before I second that, on the Consent Agenda, the maker of the motion, Item I has
been asked by staff to be brought to 7-I also.
Zaremba: Okay. An additional change. Item 5-1 will become 7-I
De Weerd: Okay. With that do I have a second?
Bird: I second it.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to approve the agenda as changed.. All
those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 5: Consent Agenda:
A. Approve Minutes of November 20, 2007 Pre-Council Meeting:
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December 18, 2007
Page 3 of 87
B. Approve Minutes of November 27, 2007 City Council Meeting:
C. Approve Minutes of December 4, 2007 City Council Special
Meeting:
D. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: RZ 07-
016 Request for Rezone of 3.66 acres from R-15 zone to TN-R
zone for Gramercy Townhome Subdivision by Tuscany
Development, Inc. -south of East Overland Road and west of
South Eagle Road,:
E. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: PP 07-
018 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 38 single-family
attached residential lots on 2.81 acres for Gramercy Townhome
Subdivision by Tuscany Development, Inc. -south of East
Overland Road and west of South Eagle Road:
F. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: CUP
07-018 Request for Conditional Use Permit for 31 multi-family
dwelling units on 4 lots in an existing R-15 zone on 2.93 acres for
Gramercy Townhome Subdivision by Tuscany Development, Inc.
- south of East Overland Road and west of South Eagle Road:
G. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: SHP
07-008 Request for Short Plat approval to create 2 building lots on
4.86 acres in a C-G zone for Gramercy by Kenai Partners, LLC -
1925 South Wells Avenue:
H. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: SHP
07-009 Request for Short Plat approval to create 4 units in 1
commercial building lot on 0.20 of an acre in a C-G zone for
Newton's .Nook Condominiums by Penwood III, LLC - 429
southwest 5 Avenue:
J. Resolution No. Donate Computer
Equipment to the Big Brothers /Bia Sisters of Southwest
Idaho:
K. Resolution No. CPA 07-010 Request to
amend the Comprehensive Plan Future Land Use Map for the north
Meridian area to include 645 acres north of the Phyllis Canal and
south of the Boise River from Linder Road to approximately'/ mile
west of Black Cat for North .Phyllis Canal Proiect by Sherrie
Ewing:
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December 18, 2007
Page 4 of 87
L. License Agreement with Narnpa Meridian Irrigation District for
10-inch water Main Crossing as Part of the Lanark /
Commercial Water Line Connections Proiect:
M. Budget Amendment for Floodplain Development
Mitigation for Public Works Department for $60,000:
N. Approve Task Order / Agreement with Civil Survey
Consultants, Inc. for the Design of sewer and water
improvements to be constructed in Conjunction with ACHD
project No. 506040 for Meridian Road and Main Street Split
Corridor for $30,470.00:
O. License Agreement with Nampa Meridian Irrigation District for
the North Black Cat Trunk Sewer:
P. Water Main Easement Agreement for Fuddrucker's by Grant
Grace Meridian, LLC:
Q. Task Order 0733a with Civil Survey Consultants, Inc. for
Design of City Well #28 Pumping Facilities for an amount not
to exceed $28,000:
R. Sanitary Sewer Easement Agreement for Bearwood
Subdivision with Tuscany Development and the Craig &
Rebecca Groves Foundation:
S. Reimbursement Agreement between the City of Meridian and
Capital Development, Inc. for Off-Site and Oversized Sewer
Lines Built in Settlement Bridge Phases 1, 4, and 6 for
$183,889:
T. Approval of Bid for Water System Improvements in
Coniunction with the Intersection Linder & McMillan Roadway
Proiect for $66,950:
U. Approve Bid and Standard Form of Agreement with Knife River
for the Construction of the Black Cat Trunk Sewer Phase 4
Schedule B8~C in Bear Creek Subdivision for $626,979.20:
V. Approve Pawnbroker's License Renewal for Terry Stewart /
Bennv's Pawn at 451 North Main Street:
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December 18, 2007
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W. Approve Pawnbroker's License Renewal for Paul Watson,
LRB, Inc. /Meridian Coin & Pawn at 1550 North Main Street:
X. Approve New Beer ~ Wine License for Qdoba Mexican Grill
#474 located at 3319 North Eagle Road:
Y. Approve Beeri Wine & Liquor License Transfer for Rick's
Press Room located at 130 East Idaho Avenue:
Z. Amendment to the Standard Operating Policy and Procedure
Manual Regarding. Executive Personnel Benefits Program:
AA. Professional Services Contract with Sage Community
Resources for Meridian Arts Commission Strategic Planning
and Grant Writing Services:
BB. Professional Services Agreement with LCA Architects P.A. for
Police Facility Expansion Design Services for the not to
exceed amount of $20,000.00:
De Weerd: Item 5, Consent Agenda.
Zaremba: Okay. Madam Mayor, on the Consent Agenda, as previously mentioned, Item
5-I has been pulled to the regular agenda. Item 5-CC has been pulled to the regular
agenda. And Items J, the resolution number is 07-590. Item K, the resolution number is
07-591 and with that motion I ask that we approve the Consent Agenda and for the
Mayor to sign and the Clerk to attest.
Rountree: Second..
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda as
changed. If there is no discussion, Mr. Berg, will you call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird., yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Gorton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 6: Department Reports:
A. City Council Member Keith Bird
1. Update on Pine Street School Relocation Project:
De Weerd: Okay. Under 6-A I will turn this over to Councilmember Bird.
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December 18, 2007
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Bird.: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Regarding the Pine Street school relocation project, we
finally got the right plat. Being in Old Town it was hard coming up with a good plat, but
we have got the site drawings and the school -- Wayne Hammer at the school has got it
now and putting their approval on them and once they get that done, we will draw the
elevations and we will get going. Get them through. But they are at the school right now
getting approved, the site.
De Weerd: And do we have any idea on the time line?
Bird: He said he's trying to get the thing back to me Thursday and we will have a deal,
so I would say right after the first of the year we should be able to start the foundation.
De Weerd: Any other questions, Council?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor, Councilman Bird., I was under the impression that we had a
hanging question about the city's contribution to that. I noticed in the notes that the cost
of the project is $65,248.49.
Bird: No. We had a motion to approve up to 55,000. That's already been done.
Zaremba: Thank you.
Bird: And we have already had the demolition done and have paid that, so --
Zaremba; Cool. Thank you.
Bird: -- we are going right along.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions?
Rountree: I have none.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Bird. Okay. Item 6 --
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes. Sorry.
Bird: I want to thank Mr. Berg for getting -- finally getting a decent plat that we are able
work on. This Old Town I'm sure we are going to find out as we redevelop a lot of stuff,
some of these plats weren't really really good down here. Anyway, thank you.
B. Public Works Department
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December 18, 2007
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1. Approve Partial Reimbursement Payrnent of 80 Percent
of the Value of Substantially Completed Sewer
Improvements for the 27 and 30 inch Black Cat Sewer
Trunk Lines Due to Change of Conditions Delaying
Completion of the Projects for $430,000:
De Weerd: Thanks, Will. Okay. Under 6-B, I will turn this over to Clint.
Dolsby: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, we are requesting a reimbursement of
80 percent of the hundred percent that we originally approved to Brown Construction for
the construction of the sewer that runs through South Ridge and Bearwood. They are
unable to complete the project right now, because there are improvements going out at
the Ten Mile overpass that are preventing them from getting into Linder Road. So, we
would like to pay them for the amount that they have done now and., then, once they are
finished with those improvements on the overpass, then, they will be able to go over
and finish up the project. They have also posted a bond for the remainder of the project,
which dropped off yesterday.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird..
Bird: I move we approve the partial reimbursement for 430,000 to Brown Construction
for the improvements at the Black Cat sewer trunk lines.
Zaremba: Second.
Borton: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to approve the Public Works request in
front of you. Is there any discussion? Mr. Berg, will you call roll.
Roil-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
C. Finance Department
1. Multiple Change Orders for New City Hall Building:
Change Order No. 1 for ICWP for <$5,479.66>:
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December 18, 2007
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Change Order No. 2 for Sidewalks, LLC for $4,371.00:
Change Order No. 3 for Sidewalks, LLC for $23,550.00:
Change Order No. 1 for Suncrest Co. for $267.75:
Change Order No. 1 for ABS for $7,952.00:
Change Order No. 2 for ABS for $5,420.00:
Change Order for Hobson Fabrication Corp. for
$1,335.00:
Change Order No. 1 for Rule Steel Change for $35,766:
Change Order No. 2 for TMC, Inc. for $324.00:
Change Order No. 1 for American Wall Cover for
$7,665.30:
De Weerd: Okay. 6-C, our finance department. I'll turn this over to Keith.
Watts: Good evening, Mayor and Council members. I have Gene Bennett from Petra
here to review the list of change orders that was -- that are in your package tonight. We
have quite a few. I will grab Gene and -- there he is. If you have any questions we are
both here to answer, so --
Bennett: Good evening..
De Weerd.: Hi, Gene.
Bennett: My name is Gene Bennett. I'm with Petra, Incorporated. 1097 North Rosario,
Meridian, Idaho. I have here a summary sheet that tells you in detail what these change
orders involve and I will give those to Will to hand out. The amounts are the same
amounts that are identified in your financial report. Attached to this is a description of
what was involved in each of these. Some are credits. Some are additions. The overall
total is an addition of 81,171.39. This total amount is covered in your current budget for
the overall project and these changes are a variety of changes. Be glad to go through
those in detail if you would like.
De Weerd: Thank you, Gene. Keith, these changes are a result of architectural --
Watts: Correct. These changes are due to the ASI, which is the Architectural
Supplemental Instructions that come from the architect. They are not changes driven
necessarily by the construction site, but due to the change in the specifications in the
plans from the architect.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions for Gene?
Bird: I have none.
Gorton: No.
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December 18, 2007
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De Weerd: Thank you.
Bennett: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, I will need a motion to approve.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd..: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move that we approve the change orders. It looks like nine add change orders
and one deduct change order, for a total of $81,171.39.
Borton: Second...
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to approve the change orders in front of
you. Any discussion? Mr. Berg, please, call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
D. Mayor's Office -Robert Simison
1. State of the City Sponsorship Donations:
De Weerd: Okay. Item 6-D. Is Robert Simison. There you are.
Simison: Madam Mayor, and Members of the Council, thanks for the opportunity to
come before you tonight. We come ,here with a request to approve sponsorship levels
for the 2008 State of the City address. After last year's state of the city, we had
someone approach the city offering to -- would like to be the title sponsor event at a
higher cost. With that in mind and with that other sponsorship levels, we wanted
increase all the sponsorship levels in accordance with that request to sponsor at a
higher level. In addition, we wanted to keep the cost of the event at ten dollars per ticket
for people to attend. We do anticipate additional costs for the Taste of Meridian
reception of three or four thousand dollars and we can put these additional revenues
from the sponsorship will help us keep that cost at the ten dollars for the general public
to attend. So, with that our request is for 3,000 for the title sponsor, 1,500 for tier one
sponsors, and 500 for tier two sponsors. I'll stand for any questions.
De Weerd: Council, we did not change the ticket price for this February 6 event, so we
would like your approval.
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December 18, 200.7
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Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd.: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I guess I have a question for counsel. Do we just need a motion to approve?
Do we need a resolution? Do we need to amend anything previously that we have
established here? Okay. Thank you. Madam Mayor, I move that we approve the
recommended sponsorship rates for the state of the city --
Zaremba: Second..
Rountree: -- February 6th.
Zaremba: Oops. Now I second..
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. I have a motion to approve. All those in favor say aye. All
ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 7: Items Moved from Consent Agenda:
I. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: PP 07-
014 Request for Preliminary Plat approval for 34 commercial /retail
building lots and 1 common lot on 17.84 acres within the C-G zone
for Emerson Park Commercial by Kuna Victory, LLC - 2910 &
3030 South Meridian Road and 110 East Victory Road:
De Weerd: Thank you, Robert. Okay. Moved from the Consent Agenda was 7-I or Item
I. Mr. Bird, who asked for that to be removed?
Hood: Madam Mayor?
Bird: Madam Mayor, it was asked for by Caleb.
De Weerd: Okay.
Hood.: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, we did ask that Item I be pulled from the
Consent Agenda. After those findings were sent to the city clerk for distribution into your
packets, the applicant did comment back to us that they would like to change those
findings, so a change has been made to condition of approval 1.1.12 for Emerson Park
to better reflect the motion made by Councilman Bird at the hearing on December 4th,
2007. I'll read that change just quickly. The access driveway at the north end of this site
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December 18, 2007
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to Meridian Road that is currently being used for loading for Victory Greens shall be
removed and the use disconnected prior to signature on the final plat for phase two of
development as depicted on the phasing shown in Exhibit A-2. The way that the
wording was currently -- some semantics here, but it said second final plat phase. So,
we have amended that and the applicant feels more comfortable with this language, so
staff recommends that the Council approve the findings of approval with the above -- or
before-mentioned change.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you, Caleb. Any questions from Council?
Rountree: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve the findings of approval on -- for Emerson Park.
Rountree: Second..
De Weerd.: Okay. I have a motion and a second to approve the findings. If there is no
discussion, Mr. Berg, will you call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea. call
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
CC. Professional Services Agreement with The Land
Group for Settler's Village Square Design for the
not to exceed amount of $97,800.00:
De Weerd: Okay. Item CC was also moved to Item 7 and I'll ask Mr. Watts.
Watts: Mayor, this was removed at the Council's request, so I guess I'm here to answer
any questions you may have.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Oh. Mr. Bird..
Bird.: I do have some questions. When was this bid and when was the bid accepted and
when was the contract signed?
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December 1.8, 2007
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Watts: There has not been a contract signed. The bid was issued on March 5th of 2007.
The bids were due -- the bids were due March 14th of 2007.
Bird.: And it wasn't -- it wasn't actually a bid, it was -- as I understand it was a request for
proposal?
Watts: Yes. It was a request for proposal. That is correct.
Bird: And we -- well, then, why -- why -- have they done some work? And as I
understand we have been billed for some work.
Watts: That is correct.
Bird.: This has never been approved by the Council.
Watts: That is correct. The bid -- or the -- excuse me. The proposal was received from
the Land Group, which was our only responder to the RFP. The original proposal was
more than the amount that was in the budget for the parks department at the time. We
had a sit down negotiation meeting with them and came to a revised scope and revised
amount for the project. The contractor was to get back to us with a revised proposal and
scope. At that point I left the project to the parks department and did not hear back from
anybody and we subsequently have received an invoice and it got sent through and was
returned back to the parks department, because we did not have a contract or a PO
signed. I can't speak for how the contractor got started. My best guess is the former
parks director probably gave them a go ahead before we had a contract. That is my
guess. And that's where we are at at this point.
Bird: When did you see the contract, Mr. Watts?
Watts: I, actually, put the contract together today and had the contractor sign it.
Bird: And they have been doing work all this time?
Watts: I'm not sure --
Bird: Did we carry -- did we carry this money through for fiscal year'08? Because I don't
recall, but that don't mean nothing.
Watts: We did, Mr. Berg -- or Mr. Bird, Council members. I did go speak with our finance
department today and verify that those funds were carried forward. So, we have a
hundred thousand dollars that was actually budgeted for this. The contract amount is for
97,800 --
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December 18, 2007
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Bird:: Not to exceed.
Watts: Not to exceed. Correct, sir.
Bird: That isn't -- that isn't an actual contract cost, it's just not to exceed.
Watts: It's a not to exceed. Correct.
Bird: Oh, brother. And I certainly know it's not anybody's fault that this fell through the
cracks that are here, but this is something that I can't believe we'd hang a company out
on a limb like that, to be truthful with you, because no work should be done until this
Council approves something like that.
Watts: Agreed. From what I can tell it --
Bird: And I -- you know. Anyway, I have had my say.
Watts: Any other questions, Madam Mayor, Council members?
De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I -- Keith, if you could just give me an idea how much time's
been spent and invoice amount.
Watts: I can let Steve give you a rundown on that.
Siddoway: Madam Mayor -- excuse me. Madam Mayor and Councilman Rountree,
about 48,000 dollars -- about half of the contract amount has been done to date. And I
can say I did also meet with Rita, verified that it was 100,000 line item approved in the
budget -- for the '07 budget and that amount was carried forward in the '08 budget. But
clearly it's backwards. The contract needs to be approved before the -- the work is
done.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Gorton.
Borton: The fault really, you know, falls on us, really. It doesn't make a lot of sense to go
through it again now, other than the fact that I appreciate you, Steve and Keith, catching
it and fixing it, getting it signed and righted going forward. I guess we all learn from the
process going forward that it doesn't happen again. But it's a miss on our end. So, if
there is no further discussion, I'd move we approve the professional services agreement
with the Land Group in an amount not to exceed 97,800, which would be inclusive of the
work already performed to date, as referenced by Mr. Siddoway.
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December 18, 2007
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Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd.: I have a motion and a second to approve the contract. Mr. Berg, will you call
roll.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Rountree: Before I can vote on that motion I need to have a question answered by
either Keith or Steve. Has the work that's been performed to date been satisfactory,
been within the scope of work that apparently the direction was issued under?
Siddoway: If it's all right, I would ask Elroy to respond to that, as he'd been the one
meeting with the Land Group on that, those services.
Huff: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the scope of work is correct and all the
work that they have done has been what has been in the scope what we have asked
for. Just as a point of classification, it did get lost and I'm partly responsible for that and
got lost on it, too. So, it's kind of a three way deal. But certainly offer no excuses for it,
so -- but it is right.
Rountree: Thank you.
Watts: And Council members, Madam Mayor, I would like to also add that all of the
purchasing .policy and the rules that we have -- everything was followed. The bid was
advertised and I do have all that backup information for this project.
Rountree: Okay.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further discussion? Okay. Mr. Berg.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea.; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 8: Continued Public Hearing from November 27, 2007: AP 07-009
Request for City Council Review of an Appeal of the Planning and Zoning
Commission's approval of the Selwav Apartments (CUP 07-016) by Glen
Tiderman and Tracy Fries -west of Goddard Creek Way, north of
McMillan Road and east of Ten Mile Road:
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De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Item 8 is a continued Public Hearing from November 27th
on AP 07-09. We continued this item for specific reasons. I'll ask staff to give an
overview.
Hood: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. I was not here at the
November 27th hearing on this item, but I did read through the minutes and I have
come to a brief summary and I'll just read that real quick and kind of go back through a
little bit of how we got to here. We have an appellant that has requested City Council
review of a Planning and Zoning Commission decision on a Conditional Use Permit.
Architectural materials, density, traffic and compatibility with the surrounding residences
seem to be the primary concerns of the appellant. This project was continued from
November 27th, so the Council could review revised elevations that show a minimum
stone work or accent of 50 percent and greater modulation on the carriage units. Two,
who will be responsible for installing no parking signs on Goddard Creek. Three,
providing cross-access easements to property to the south. Four, across-section
showing the screening for the headlights on the north boundary. Five, if the existing
pathway to the north is not extended into the site, what is the plan for that area where
the pathway currently exists. And, finally, so all parties could review the written minutes
from the 27th. The hearing was continued and the appellant, applicant, and public
should be allowed an opportunity discuss only the items listed above. However, I do
understand that the fire department has been in some discussions and some questions
may be raised. I'll leave that up to the discretion of the Council, if you're going to accept
any public testimony regarding that, but that was not one of the things that this item was
continued to discuss. I do have an update for you on the five items that were mentioned
that I just listed. One, the applicant has prepared revised elevations and will present
those just after I'm done with my presentation. Two, ACRD staff, Christie Richardson,
submitted an a-mail requesting a condition be added stating the developer shall install
no parking signs on Goddard Creek Way from Wapoot Way to the south for a location to
be determined by ACHD traffic services. The cost associated with the signs and the
installation shall be at developer's cost. There was some associated. roadway striping
pavement marking that needs to occur with the installation of the signage. ACHD will
pay for and conduct that work, but the developer shall coordinate the scheduling of the
sign installation with traffic services, so that the pavement marking can occur at the
appropriate time.. In regards item three, staff -- planning staff recommends that the City
Council add a condition to the CUP requiring cross-access be provided to the properties
to the south in two locations. Let me just jump to the site plan real quick. One of the
locations is the shared private street access point that they have coming in off of
Goddard Creek and, then, the property to the south. So, across-access agreement
here, as well as the extension and providing cross-access of that drive aisle there in the
southwest portion of the site. Staff recommends that the condition be added that reads
as follows: Prior to issuance of the fourth building permit, provide planning staff with a
copy of a recorded cross-access ingress-egress easement to the property to the south.
Said easement shall provide vehicular access to the property to the south in two
locations shown on the site plan to Goddard Creek Way. And, then, in regards to item
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four, the applicant has submitted across-section showing screening to the north. And,
again, I'll let the applicant present that after I'm done with my presentation. And, then,
finally, I did contact the appellant today and talked with them about potential plans, if the
-- there is an existing pathway stub, a micro pathway stub to this site in this location
here. There was some discussions about that pathway not being extended into the site
and continuing through the development as part of the pedestrian network system. I will,
again, defer that answer to the appellant when they get up and testify. The interim parks
director is also here. That was part of the minutes last time. I believe it was Mr. Nary
mentioned that -- that Mr. Siddoway maybe could comment on implications if that
pathway isn't extended and he is here today. Finally, I have received two forms of
written testimony since the last year. One was a letter from Dorothy Pathow, dated
November 30th, and an a-mail with attachments from AI Wallace dated December 14th.
With that I'll turn the mike over to Steve Siddoway, unless the Council has questions.
De Weerd: Council, any questions for Caleb?
Bird: I have none.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd.: Yes.
Borton: Caleb, looking at the staff report, is there also a rezone application that's being
resolved today in conjunction with the appeal?
Siddoway: Madam Mayor, Councilman Borton, no, the applicant has filed a rezone
application for this site, but that has not even been to the Planning and Zoning
Commission yet.
Borton: Okay.
De Weerd: Okay. Anything else, Council? Steve.
Siddoway: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, it's my understanding there were
some questions at the last hearing looking for some input from park's perspective about
the proposed micropath on the north part of this site. The closest city park to this project
is Heroes Park, which sits approximately a half mile to the north. What -- and there is an
existing micropath stub from the -- the subdivision north of it connecting to the -- to the
site. Heroes Park sits just off the -- off the map up here. But the existing micropath stub,
being extended to the site, one, would allow residents of this subdivision to get onto the
sidewalk system and up to the -- the park, should they so choose, or it could also
function as an access for residents of the subdivision to get through this project to the
commercial that's proposed to the south of it. Finally, the -- if someone living in the
Lochsa Falls Subdivision were to have a friend that lived in this development and they
Meridian City Council
December 18, 2007
Page 17 of 87
wanted to access it, you know, they would have the ability to connect to it through that
micropath without going out and around and in. But that's -- that's the function that the
micropath would serve from my -- from our perspective. Without it, the folks living in this
development would go out to the street and up to the park that way or folks would go
down to the commercial access to the south using sidewalks along the collector road,
as opposed to through the project. And with that I'll stand for any questions.
De Weerd: Council., any questions?
Rountree: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Siddoway: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. We will ask the developer to present first, so the appellant has an
opportunity to know what they are responding to. And each will be given ten minutes.
If you can face it towards the audience, we can generally see.
Thowless: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, my name is Wayne Thowless, LKV
Architects, 2400 East Riverwalk Drive, Boise, representing Rudeen Development.
Thank you for the opportunity to respond to the conditions set at the last Public Hearing.
I'd like to start tonight first by calling your attention to the materials I handed out. The
color rendition on those is not real accurate, because they are reduced so much, but I
do want you to have those in your hands, since there are so many buildings involved..
As you have questions you can refer to those. The color rendition in the Powerpoint
images is also not real accurate, so I have these large boards here, which I will speak to
shortly. I'd like to start tonight by showing you a few photographs of the neighborhood
and the architecture that we are trying to be sensitive to and emulate in the apartment
buildings of the Selway development. all these photographs were taken, except for the
few at the end, of other apartment complexes within just a couple blocks of the subject
site. Please note the different siding materials. There is vertical board and batten and
this particular house there is some shingle treatment, horizontal wood siding and
masonry accents typically in the form of stone. Some of the homes have some brick.
Next slide, please. Most of the homes are wood siding on the sides and the back, with
stucco and/or stone accents on the front. This home is right across the street from the
proposed apartment project and it utilizes, as you can see, a mixture of stucco and
stone. More common pallet is stone or stucco on the front with siding on the other side.
Next slide, please. Here is a case where to comply with the covenants within the Kelly
Creek area, the homeowner or builder utilized stucco as the single accent material. The
covenants give the option of stone, brick, or stucco. You can see it is strictly an accent.
Most of the siding of the walls is a wood material. Next slide. Another case. Notice the
stone accent. I won't debate whether it's 40 percent or not as the covenants require, but
the rest of the siding is different wood materials. Please note the corballing, the little
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December 1'8, 2007
Page 18 of 87
projecting elements. That will be germane to my discussion in a few minutes. Next,
please. Here is the typical back and side of the homes in the area. Typically, one color
and one material. Next slide, please. Another home very close proximity to the project.
The slides that we just viewed, you noticed all of the colors were greens and that is not
an uncommon accent color or full color of the homes in the area. Here is a home
directly across North Goddard Creek Way from our site. Notice the lack of any accent
materials or colors on the side. This, acfiually, faces the street. But it is the side of the
home. Next, please. Another home across from the subject site. Again, all siding on the
sides and the rear, single color, with the exception of the trim. The homes that are due
north of the project, again, same comments as before for the most part. Next slide.
There was conversation and discussion last week about the apartment complex in
Hobble Creek and the amount of masonry material on those buildings. This is a
photograph of a typical three story building there. It does have accents up those gabled
projecting portions of the building adjacent to the balconies and at the entrance
element. Next, please. The side elevations, some of them have some masonry material
as you can see here. Next, please. And some do not have anything. Next slide. This is a
rather high end apartment complex in Boise. It's on Park Center Drive right hear the
Albertson's headquarters and I show this to you, because this is a -- as I say, very high
quality project, but you will notice there are no accent materials whatsoever. The color
of the trim., the siding, everything is monochromatic. There are some differences in
siding material and pattern, but it's an attractive project that has no masonry or stucco
on it at all. We took very seriously the comments and the discussion of Council from the
last Public Hearing, as well as the neighbors. We went back to the drawing board, so to
speak, and we have revised the exterior elevations of every building in the project from
those elevations that have been previously submitted and discussed. Those elevations
are up here. As I said before, the color rendition is off on anything that we project, so
with Council's approval, I would like to put this board up to where you can see them and
can speak to the actual colors, if I may.
De Weerd: Council, if we have them put it over on this easel and use the highlighter.
Thowless: Would you prefer over there?
De Weerd: Yeah. Because, then, everyone can see it.
Thowless: Well, unfortunately, the light's not very good over there either, but we will do
our best. What we have done is our -this is one of the typical three story buildings.
Previously, we have stone accents at this location and this location and at the
breezeway entry element. In response to Council's request, we have increased the
amount of stone significantly by taking it up the entire element here adjacent to the
balconies, very much like you saw on the apartments at Hobble Creek. On the fronts of
the buildings, those that face the driveways that the user, the tenants will enter into the
breezeway and access their units, we have also placed stone around the patio area that
flanks the entrance, because that's the most highly visible portion of the building as
Meridian City Council
December 1'8, 2007
Page ?9 of 87
you're approaching it. On the back side of the building we have always had stone, but,
again, we have extended it all the way up those elements. Because people do not
typically come and go through the breezeways on the back side, we have also -- instead
of putting stone at those adjacent patio areas, we have put it on the ends of the building
and extended it around the corners of the first floor only. If we could go to the next slide,
please. This is another three story building. There are four total. There are two of these
buildings and they are not located adjacent to one another. This one has board and
batten accents, but the stone is in the same place as on the previous building. Next
slide, please. This one has -- back to horizontal siding, but the -- you will notice that the
colors are opposite of the previous building that we just looked at. Stone again. The
same locations and around the corners. I'd like to make the -- the point here that as you
saw in the pictures of the homes in the area, the architectural treatment and the nice
materials are typically limited to the front of the majority of those homes. At your request
and because we are endeavoring to do a quality project and we are taking your
comments and the neighbors concerns seriously, we are proposing accent colors,
alternating siding treatments, and some use of stone on all sides of all buildings. At the
Renaissance or the Hobble Creek apartments, there are garage buildings that have no
accent materials whatsoever. And as you saw there are some end elevations that have
no accentuation either. Next slide, please. This is one of the two story building types.
Again, it has the board and batten accents. Has stone on these elements adjacent to
the balconies at the breezeway entrance. At flanking bedrooms on the first floor. Similar
treatment on the back side. And stone wraps around on the side elevations a part of the
way. Next slide. This is one of the other two story buildings. Again, the color scheme is
different. The siding treatments are different. The stone is, basically, in the same areas.
Next slide. This is the two carriage unit buildings. We did a second design, so that all six
of them would not be identical. This was the original building here and this was the
alternate design that moved the balcony from the side to the elevation facing the
driveways. You notice in this building we have stone on the entire first floor between
and above the garage doors.. We have stone accents on the back of the building. In
response to feeling that the buildings were too simple and rectangular, we increased the
number of gable roof elements to add architectural interest on both buildings, both front
and back. On this building here we put the stone in the center, taking it all the way up
both first floor and second floor. Stone accents on the rear. And, there is some stone on
the side elevations as well. With regard to this building, there was concern, I believe,
from Councilman Rountree that the building didn't have as much massing articulation as
some of the larger ones. Hopefully, what we have done with the roof lines and the
different materials and colors is satisfactory, but if it is not, we would be willing to
actually do an offset on these buildings where one apartment unit and the three garages
below it would remain in its present location and the other half of the building could be
shifted back two, three, four feet. We don't -- we aren't able to move any part of the
building forward, but we could move it back. And if that would be the Council's desire,
we would be happy to do that as well. The one caveat is, of course, that at least behind
that portion of those buildings that we might shift, it would reduce the landscape buffer
behind. But we would be happy to entertain that. Back to the slides of the buildings. This
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December 18, 2007
Page 20 of 87
is the clubhouse, manager's unit building. A lot of stone on the front. Stone accents on
all other sides, as well as various siding treatments and the two tone color scheme.
Next slide. In the storage building -- our lowly storage buildings have added stone
accents to all four sides. I would like to mention that we did meet with three of the
neighbors who have been representing the neighborhood association today, this
afternoon. We showed them our work, these revised elevations. One suggestion was
made that perhaps this roof could incorporate another gable. We would be happy to do
that in response to their suggestion, if that pleased the Council. I'd like to go on record
again as stating that we are proposing to use hardy plank siding, both a narrow plank
and a wide plank, plus the vertical board and batten. We have the two tone color
scheme with a third color trim, as you see in the elevations. In response to the
neighbors' concerns about roofing, we have agreed to change the color to black and to
use architectural grade shingles, as opposed to standard three tab shingles. Next slide,
please. Okay. Do you not have on that CD the slide of the section? I can speak to the
board if you'd like, Caleb. I have got a board of it. Are you able to rotate it? There we go.
Thank you. This is an end view or a side view of one of the carriage units along the
north property line. You can see the section -- where the section is cut right there. One
of the concerns of the neighbors was headlight intrusion into their backyards. This is the
five foot fence that presently exists on the north property line. What we have done in
response to that concern is we took -- we have kept our same mixture of deciduous and
evergreen trees in the landscape buffer, but we have concentrated the evergreen trees
between the buildings, behind the parking stalls. We, actually, have typically Austrian
pines along the fence line. That's the tall tree illustrated here.. In front of that we have a
Mugo pine, not the dwarf variety, but a full Mugo pine. And immediately in front of the
parking spaces we have incorporated Japanese holly, which is a broad leaf shrub, but it
does not lose its leaves. So, we have, basically, four levels of buffering for those
headlights and the parking spaces and in the driveways. And as you can see from that
-- that lane there which represents the top of the headlight beam, even when the trees
are relatively young and haven't reached mature height, they will still afford some
degree of buffering and all the materials are evergreen in nature, not deciduous. As you
heard in the staffs report, ACHD has requested that there be a condition of approval
that the developer provide the no parking signs on the street. The developer is happy to
do so. As we have stated in the past relative to the micropath that connects the
apartment project to the neighborhood That time north, if the city desires that, that's fine
with us. If the city does not desire that, that's fine with us. We can go either way on that
issue. I think I have covered the major design modifications that we have made. We
believe that we have responded to the intent of the Council. There is a tabulafiion as
requested of the percentage of stone on each elevation at the back of your packet. We
have not achieved the 50 percent that was requested, but we believe that we have met
the intent of Council's request and looking at these buildings on the whole relative to the
neighboring homes, we believe that we have enhanced the project and have sensitively
related to the materials, the colors on the residential architecture in the area. So, we
would respectfully request approval of the design changes that we have made.
Meridian City Council
December 18, 2007
Page 21 of 87
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd.: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Caleb, if you could go back to the carriage homes. It really doesn't have
anything to do with the desire per se, but the function.
Thowless: Okay.
Rountree: The garages associated with these units, will those be rented with those units
or will they be handled similar to the garage spaces in the individual garage units? In
other words, if I have got a young aspiring musician and I live around the corner and I
can rent one of those, so that I can have a garage band., is that going to happen?
Thowless: Iwas -- Councilman Rountree, I was about to acknowledge that you were on
the right track until you parted the part about the aspiring young musician with a rock
band.. The garages are not specifically designated to go with the units above. They will
be rented to the renters in the units above, if those renters want to rent a garage or
garages. But they are also open to be rented by other renters in the apartment complex.
And I think it is safe to say that Rudeen Development will limit the use of those garages
to what garages are intended for, the storing of vehicles and belongings and not jam
sessions.
Rountree: Thank you. Another question, Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Rountree: I believe it was on the garage units itself or your storage buildings, you
indicated there was some discussion with the neighbors for some additional alteration of
the roof line. In what way and in what location were the discussions headed for those
changes?
Thowless: Councilman Rountree, Madam Mayor, I believe what they were looking at
was the long., unbroken nature of these roof plains that face east and west. In this
particular graphic the building is actually condensed. It's, actually, longer than that. And
I think what they were thinking might be a good attractive addition would be a gable
element on those long, unbroken roof planes and we would be happy to do that.
Rountree: Along the lines of a dormer?
Thowless: Yes. A dormer would be another way of referring to it. Uh-huh. Similar to the
elements that we added to the roof line on the carriage units themselves.
Meridian City Council
December 48, 2007
Page 22 of 87
Rountree: Would that be one per unit or one per building or --
Thowless: Councilman Rountree, there is only one of that building type.
Rountree: Okay.
Thowless: There is one storage building on the site. It's this purple building there. And
so it would only be a modification to that one building.
Rountree: How many dormers would you propose?
Thowless: One on each side. One on the east, one on the west.
De Weerd: Okay. Anything further?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: If you addressed it, I failed to catch it, I'm sorry, but the one issue of the
cross-access agreements that would be necessary here and here you will attempt to
provide those?
Thowless: Absolutely.
Zaremba: Okay.
De Weerd: You know, I guess I didn't know that those garage units were not associated
with the residents that would be in the building, which -- I don't know if the fire
department is concerned, but if those units have no property at risk, you know, do you
require -- do you have restrictions on what they can put in the garages, who oversees
that? I guess that would be my concern is maybe there is not a jam session going on in
the garage, but there may be hazardous materials, flammable material. We know a lot
of our house fires are started in the garage, in particular during fireworks season, but I
guess I just would say is there any oversight to that and how do you oversee that?
Thowless: Madam Mayor, I think I'd like to defer to Rud,een Development on that
question, if you'd like to post it to them. We do have representatives of the company
here and they could speak -- that sounds like a management type of question and
issue.
De Weerd: Okay. Since I didn't articulate it too well, I would imagine they will remember
my question that I asked. But, Council, any other questions at this point?
Meridian City Council
December 18, 2007
Page 23 of 87
Bird: I have none at this point.
Rountree: I have none.
De Weerd: Yeah. If we could have one of Rudeen's -- if you will, please, state your
name and address for the record.
Capen: Yeah. My name is Kurt Capen. I work for Rudeen Development and my address
would 4707 East Upriver Drive, Spokane, Washington. That's where I office out of.
De Weerd: Okay.
Capen: To address your question, we do have onsite managers that control that. We
have lease agreements. We can -- we patrol it the best we can. Just like in a home you
can't always control what someone is storing in their garage. We try and police it as
cars, that's what we tell them, it's not meant for storage, it's meant for cars. We have
parking requirements is part of our parking requirements, we try to add amenities for
garages for tenants. We typically -- which Wayne doesn't necessarily know, but we
typically have one of these units go to the carriage unit, but the other two below each
carriage unit are not assigned to that one. But we do usually assign one to the unit
above that's usually under the master bedroom. They are protected with the -- you
know, fire safety breaks per code that would be. We certainly do have people to go
through, maintenance guys, you see them when they are open. When you see people
storing stuff in there, we contact them or write them a violation, we say you got to fix it.
You can do -- we comply with the laws that you have, it's either comply or vacate, and
you give them notice that you need to go with what is in your lease, which is that's a car
spot, not a spot for storage and flammable materials. So, we manage it by your on-site
manager being active in the neighborhood to kind of police, if you will, the whole area
and that's where our start is on keeping control on all the apartments we have is we
usually have an on-site manager that lives there and takes control of it and full-time
staff, meaning six days a week, if not sometimes on Sundays, depending on the market,
not just three or four hours a day here and there. Usually it's a full eight or ten hour day,
six days a week, because our goal is, obviously, to be open for renters, so that also
means you have someone there policing the site all the time. That's how we have done
it on a lot of the projects that we have in the past. Does that answer your question about
it, I mean how we police it? It's in your lease agreements, it's -- we try to enforce that
the best you can. We don't always go in and break open doors and try and check it, but
when you see it as people go and come, we police it and write them up for that and ask
them to vacate it.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
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December 18, 2007
Page 24 of 87
Rountree: Along those lines -- and it was a question that came up previously about the
maintenance of the facility and I assume that any questions about maintenance of this
facility, if it were to happen, will be handled similar to what you just said?
Capen: As far as your ongoing maintenance, yes, your --
Rountree: Exterior maintenance and --
Capen: Yes.
Rountree: -- maintaining the landscaping, the condition of the buildings, that sort of
thing?
Capen: Correct. Our on-site manager would be responsible for that as well, daily
walking, picking up any garbage or trash that my blow out of something. Watching for
any gutters that slowly deteriorate or fall off, you fix them. It is our goal as well to have a
good looking project, because that is how we benefit as well, having good tenants stay
in there. It doesn't do us any good to have all kinds of tenants come in that don't care
about where they live. We enforce rules and make them care.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, follow up.
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Rountree.: Do you establish any guidelines, criteria, standards, evaluation techniques,
checklists, et cetera, for your maintenance manager type folks so there is some quality
assurance?
Capen: Most of our -- you're talking about our -- in staff that will work there. All of our
staff would go through the same criteria as far as criminal checks that we do with any
tenant, we check every tenant and all of our staff for criminal, any history of good
stature per person, if that's what you're talking about, and as far as their quality of work,
we, obviously, would check references much like you would with any job application, we
don't have 30 or 40 people that we are going to just bring here, we would have to go out
and apply and find out who's out there and probably go to other communities that we
think are good and look at recruiting those folks or finding out by word of mouth who is
good in this industry. And that's how you do it is you just go through an interview
process and -- to find your quality of maintenance person and it usually starts with your
on-site manager, which directs -- works directly with my boss., the owner, and myself
and other staff, to make sure that the project is always in top shape. So, that, again, is
our main goal as far as it providing an attractive place for people to come and rent.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
Meridian City council
December 18, 2007
Page 25 of 87
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Rountree: Now I'm safe, what quality assurance -- my question is does your corporation,
your company, have in place architectural guidelines, cleanliness guidelines, clean and
green guidelines for what the place looks like and how it's going to be maintained, that
your managers are bound to and that they will implement?
Capen; We do have a manual, if you will, because we believe every project is different
in its own way. We have different projects in different areas. We have a continual
supervision of the owner or owners representative on site quite often, I would say on our
projects in Spokane it's three times a week. Down here I would imagine you'd probably
at least two or three times a month that we have the owners -- one of the owner
representatives on site and that's probably more active than a lot of apartments out
there. We do come to Boise quite often, so --
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Rountree: When you first started discussing what it is you do, you used the word you
usually do these things. Do you unusually not do them?
Capen: No, sir. I'm not actually -- we have two different sides of the company. We have
the development side, which has between 20 some employees and I am the CFO of
that company and I work that. We also have a management side that I know how they
operate., because I worked for them for 12 years and I see what they do, but I am not on
the management side, so I cannot exactly address what is in the leases, but I know
what they -- the intent is and I know with being around them and working with them, that
they do have leases. So, I'm saying usually, because I am not the -- I don't know the
exact letter of the law in the leases., but we do enforce those issues and we have leases
that are supposed to, but as far as the garages that you're going back to, I think to
enforce that they are for car parks.
Rountree: Madam Mayor? Then, would you or your company be opposed if the city put
some kind of stipulation that it's not a usual, but it will happen in the development
agreement that would -- or the Conditional Use Permit that would -- could be issued on
this project?
Capen: As far as which one those of parts? What I'm trying to say is are you saying you
would like to tell us how to maintain our project or just make sure that we enforce in the
leases that people do not do other activities, other than store a vehicle on a garage,
because I don't think we have a problem with that. That is our intent in our lease as well,
as far as the garages. They may also store a TV or a box or something, but the main
Meridian City Council
December t8, 2007
Page 26 of 87
goal is save room for your car, because that's where it's supposed to park. I don't think
we have a problem with that.
Rountree: And that you will have on-site managers and those sorts of things?
Capen: This is -- we do have on-site managers on probably 90 percent of projects. If
you have a good manager and they have their own home, I'm certainly probably not
going to disqualify them because they don't live on site. I don't know if that's legal, plus I
wouldn't want to turn a good person away because they have their own home. But it is
our intent to have an on-site management staff, like we do 90 percent of our stuff.
Rountree: Thank you.
Capen: Any other questions?
De Weerd: Council?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor, before we move onto the appellant, I guess we are saying,
somewhere in there I thought there was a suggestion that some new issues were raised
by the fire department. Could we have comment on that either yeah or nay.
Niemeyer: Madam Mayor, I believe that the concerns raised would be from the public.
We have no concerns regarding this development. I have been in contact with Chief
Silva, the fire marshall. He has been in contact with Wayne today and according to him
all those issues have been resolved.
Zaremba: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Anything else, Council?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Would the appellant like to come forward?
Titerman: Thank you, Madam Mayor. My name is Glen Titerman. I live at 2432 West
Los Flores Drive here in Meridian. Thank you.
De Weerd.: Thank you.
Meridian City Council
December 18, 2007
Page 27 of 87
Titerman: I'll have to admit that these drawings are -- they go a lot farther in the idea
that we had for this development. Unfortunately, we still have 171 units, but that just
may be a discussion for another day. The fire -- the fire concerns -- I don't know if you
would be willing to open that up to a moment of discussion, but we have a resident who
is a local paramedic who has had some discussion with one of the fire chiefs, I believe,
in the area about a ladder truck that's on -- scheduled to be ordered. We have had
some concerns about -- in the past whefher a ladder truck would be able to get in there
and get to the third floor effectively if that were, you know, something that -- that they
saw that it's important. One thing that I would say in the testimony for the carriage
houses., Wayne mentioned that the ability to maybe split those apart and offset by a few
feet, split into -- instead of one group of six garage doors on the bottom, two groups of
three. We would oppose that on a couple of issues. One is it's going to crowd the
homes behind it a little bit more by a few feet. The other is -- as I see it, it's going to
leave a few more feet in front of those garage doors for them to possibly try to sneak in
a vehicle and potentially impede on the fire safety zone as well. So, I would ask that that
not be a choice that you would agree to on that. Let's see. The only other thing -- it
came up in the last meeting. I haven't heard it this time around and maybe it's
something that's not possible, is we'd still like to see a right turn out of the Goddard
Creek entrance, sort of to protect Apgar being the straight shot over to Linder. That
would be something that we'd like to see. And, again, if you would be not opposed to
hearing what Brian has to say about the ladder truck, maybe some his testimony if -- it's
up to you.
De Weerd: Yeah. We can hear that. But I did have aquestion -- unless Tracy was going
to --
Titerman: No. Tracy has a lot to cover as well. She's got a bit and I've got a bit. So,
maybe Tracy could cover what she has and, then, you could ask questions of both of
us, if that would work. .
De Weerd: Okay.
Fries: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Tracy Fries, 2787 West Wapoot,
Meridian. A couple of things. Like Glen said., the revised elevations are an obvious
improvement. We did meet with the -- with representatives from Rudeen this afternoon.
Much improved elevations. I would like to note, however, the pictures that Wayne
showed., while they are .representative of our community, they are selected
representations of our communities and many of the homes do have much more in the
way of rock and stucco and do have it on multiple sides, my home being one of those,
and I would like you to take that into consideration when you look what they presented,
compared to what you requested. The ACHD changes regarding the parking -- no
parking on Goddard, we appreciate that. That's very helpful. The south access, to cross-
access, excellent, we do appreciate that. As far as the cross-sections, the screen to the
north, Wayne had a nice cross-section drawing there showing the landscape and how .
Meridian City Council
December 18, 2007
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that has been changed to -- thank you, Caleb. To more appropriately address the
parking areas. We would just like to reiterate that we would hope that that will not
detract from the landscaping behind those apartments -- those carriage houses, that we
will be looking in those windows and such right into the homes in the backyards. We
understand it's a transfer of the deciduous and evergreen trees, but we'd like to make
sure that that screening is not lost on the other areas as well. As far as the pathway to
the north, I spoke with Mike Farlow from Valley Property Management, we are in a bit of
a unique situation right now in that Kelly Creek has just now been turned over to the
homeowners. Our board has not had an opportunity to meet in full yet, there are three
members. They will be meeting in January. The only -- so Mike cannot make a decision,
the board has to make a decision at this point, but they have not yet had that
opportunity. The only concern would be cost to that and how we would -- we would
absorb that cost. The general consensus of the community is that they would like to see
that pathway closed off. In the meeting this afternoon -- I'm not sure -- I believe it may
have been Kevin Rudeen, perhaps I'm incorrect, but one of them indicated that they
would be willing to pay for the fencing to cross that off, to close off that section. I
understand Mr. Siddoway's comments -- oh, he's gone. Comments regarding the park
access. As he did show -- do we have a pointer? Okay. Somebody show me -- is this
our access right here? Okay. This will go through into Kelly Creek. One reason would
be that it would allow access to the park right up here. Another would be that it would
allow these community members access to this proposed commercial in the future. I
don't think it's going to help us out much, because even if we come through here we still
have to go down and around their entire property to get through to that commercial.
Really no benefit to the community members in Kelly Creek or coming out of Verona
into Kelly Creek. I don't think it's asking too much to access -- there is sidewalks -- a
sidewalk system in place and beautifully landscaped right along here on Goddard.. The
only community members who would have a further walk would be these ones right
here in those carriage homes. So, we are looking at one, two, three, four -- eight
residences that rather than being able to access there, can go out to Goddard where
you can access the sidewalk system. Then, those of us who are residents of Wapoot
do not have to worry about those late night parking visitors that are going to park on our
street and cut through to those apartments, the big concern for many of the families that
have young children on that street. Like I said, Rudeen said they are willing to pay for
the fencing to close that off and the Kelly Creek homeowners association board will be
meeting in January and they can give you a detailed explanation as to how they would
handle that property. But as it stands they currently take care of the landscaping and
upkeep, it's just a matter of the sidewalk, whether that would stay or be removed and
whether or not that property would be kept as part of the community property or folded
into the two existing home sites that are there at this point. Also, would like to note that
we appreciate Kevin Rudeen and representative agreeing to the architectural singles.
One concern we did have is that in the staff report -- Caleb, perhaps you can help me
out on this. There is a point where -- perhaps you can help me out, Glen. There is a
point where something was deleted by Planning and Zoning. We were comfortable with
that, but the deletion went too far and it crossed out the minimum three inch caliper for
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December 18, 2007
Page 29 of 87
trees and that was not the intent of that meeting, according to the minutes. And we'd like
to insure that that is not a loophole that eventually we wind up paying the price for as a
community. So, if somebody could just insure that the landscape -- it is, actually, the
landscaping to be in place prior to occupancy and Rudeen asked that it be just on a
building by building basis, rather than completely along the north and west boundary
and I believe the deletion was just accidentally carried too far and if we could address
that as a community we would be much more comfortable. And (believe -- other than
like Glen said, the 171 units, which this is not the forum for, that concludes the concerns
that I had..
Titerman: I have one other that I forgot.
De Weerd: Just for the record --
Titerman: Glen Titerman.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Titerman: We have asked the gentlemen at Rudeen and Wayne about the colors. We
would just, again, reiterate that we would ask that they either choose colors from the
current Bridgetower color pallets for this plan or submit their colors choices to the Kelly
Creek association for -- for approval, which is either/or is exactly what we all had to do
as homeowners. So, not to criticize their color choice in any way, we would just like to
see that that is agreed upon either by the association or chosen from an existing color
pallet. And (guess --
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Hey, Glen, why don't -- before we have additional testimony, that we ask
Council if they have any questions for you all. We can ask him to testify under his --
Titerman: Fair enough. Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions for Glen or Tracy?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Rountree: Question for Tracy. And you lost me with your comments about the
landscaping and the three caliper and the north and south -- or north and west to be
done prior to occupancy, what was the point you were making?
Meridian City Council
December 18, 2007
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Fries:: Excellent, Councilman Rountree. Thank you, Caleb. I appreciate your finding that.
If you note on -- it looks like is it -- my eyes are a little bit older than the rest of me.
Hood: It's the first bullet point in condition 1.1.4 near the end. And I believe that -- Bill
Parsons prepared these -- these regs and I believe that you're correct that he just got a
little too strike through happy with that. The -- but those were deleted by the Planning
and Zoning Commission. However, the three inch caliper, which is the second half of
that sentence, should be still intact as a condition. So, if the Council so chooses to
approve this project, we will amend that condition to reflect that they do need some
three inch caliper trees in there. That was just an error on staffs part preparing the
recommendation for the Planning and Zoning Commission.
Fries: Thank you, Caleb. Does that clarify that issue?
Rountree: Well, yes, it clarifies that point. Now, I believe the testimony was made by
Rudeens last meeting that they had indicated three inch caliper materials.
Fries: Excellent. Thank you.
De Weerd: Any other questions from Council?
Bird: I have none.
Boston: No.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Fries: Thank you.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Okay. Yes.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this hearing was continued for only those
specific purposes that were raised, so you can't take new testimony on new evidence.
We can only do it on what was continued for the purpose of what was brought up by the
planning staff and what's been addressed by the applicant and the appellant. So, the
issue that's being proposed to be presented now isn't appropriate for this hearing.
Person: I believe the fire chief was asked questions and this speaks directly to the fire.
De Weerd: I'm sorry, at this point I don't know what I'm supposed to do.
Person: This speaks directly to the fire department and that was --
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December t8, 2007
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Nary: No, you can't bring it up.
De Weerd: I'm sorry, sir, you can't comment yet.
Nary: It wasn't brought up -- it wasn't -- the purpose of this hearing was for the five
.points that were articulated by the planning staff. The only reason Deputy Chief
Niemeyer was asked that was because it was the belief of the Council that there was an
issue from fire. He said there isn't an issue from fire, so there isn't any testimony
necessary and that's not what it was continued for, so they can't take new testimony on
different issues than what was -- it was continued for.
Bird: Madam Mayor, this was the exact thing I said is we'd get this thing open and it
would be another six hour public testimony. We -- specifically what we were going to
talk about and that's it, so -- and wasn't part of it.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I guess on this particular topic, it is an important topic and I
don't think we need to make light of it. However, our fire chief and our assistant fire chief
and our additional assistant fire chief have assured us that all fire code will be met, all
fire requirements will be met, all fire issues will be met by the applicant before the
application would more forward. So, that's been testified by our own staff. All three of
our chiefs and assistant chiefs, so I'm comfortable that they know what they are doing.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. And I apologize. Okay. We will accept testimony based on
the five items that it was continued on, so -- I do have a number of people that did sign
up to indicate their opposition of this project. Rather than reading off each name, I will
enter it into the record.. I would ask if anyone has testimony to, please, come forward at
this time. If you will, please, state your name and address for the record.
C.Fries: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Chris Fries, 2787 West Wapoot. Was
one of the individuals present today at the meeting with Rudeen. I did find that they did
make a large effort to improve the building -- the outsides to the community. They also
kept commenting that it's in regards to -- you know, it's comparison to what we have
now. I feel it is similar, but taking what you all have said at the prior meeting, requesting
50 percent stone or stucco, in looking by -- at these numbers that you guys all have,
some of these buildings only have seven percent stone or stucco on one side. I feel that
they could have gone a little farther into it. You know, they have made the comment that
they looked like a castle if they went with too much stone and that is fine, but I think they
could have also gone a lot more with stucco. If you look at all the commercial that is
being developed right now in the area -- and I know that this is, quote, unquote,
residential, but it's commercial to these people.. This is a business, this is how they
make money, and I feel that it needs to be better than what is there now. It needs to
stand out and above that, because, you know, I know they said they wanted it to blend
in, but three story apartment buildings are not going to blend in with any of the
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December 18, 2007
Page 32 of 87
surroundings. And that's -- you know, Ijust -- I'm going by what you all have asked from
the developer and I don't see that on any one of their buildings -- on any side of the
buildings, for that matter. I would just -- you know, I guess my request is that you uphold
what you requested from them and, you know, as a service to the community to make
this better than anything that has been built here to this point. Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay, sir.
Hessing: My name is Matt Hessing, 2745 West Wapoot Drive, Meridian.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Hessing: I'd like to reiterate the comments that I made in the last session about the path
-- the access path to the north from the proposed project. There has been a lot of great
testimony about it. I know that Rudeen is -- is willing to forego the path. I'd just like to
make the voice heard again from the neighbors, especially the large majority of
neighbors that have small children. The main concern is the amount of traffic that will
come onto Wapoot of cars being parked from visitors and the majority of people that
would be using the path from the apartment project. It is a concern to the neighbors. We
have small children and it's very difficult to keep tabs on them as it is. If the path were to
be there, I feel that it would cause some severe discomfort to me and my family, as well
as our neighbors with our children. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, Matt. Okay. Any further testimony? Okay. Will ask for wrap-up
remarks first by the developer and, then, final word to the appellant.
Thowless: Wayne Thowless, LKV Architects, 2400 East Riverwalk Drive, Boise. Madam
Mayor, Members of the Council, regarding a few of the neighbors' comments that have
been made, first, let me address the issue of percentage of stone or masonry or stucco
accents. We are not proposing any stucco on the buildings. The reason for that is that
stucco is an expensive material, like stone or like brick, but it does not hold up as well
as stone or brick and it does incur -- entail ongoing maintenance. Stone or brick does
not. So, we made the conscious decision that all of the accent material that we wanted
to propose would be stone to look better and require less maintenance over time.. To
increase significantly those percentages beyond what we have shown, we do believe
would be -- create architecture that would be out of character with the neighborhood
and would be castle or fortress looking. There is such a thing as too much of a good
thing and generally in this region of the country, when stone and masonry is used on
buildings, it's used as an accent, not a primary construction material, like brick is back
east where they build whole buildings out it typically. With regard to the color issue and
the request that our final color choices be subject to the review of the homeowners
association or be limited specifically to the specific colors that are mentioned in the
CC&Rs of the surrounding subdivision, I just respectfully remind Council that the
CC&Rs do not apply to our project. We believe that from day one the color pallet that
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December T8, 2007
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we have chosen is complimentary to the colors that are being used in the adjacent
neighborhoods and we would respectfully request that if you agree with that, that you
approve our elevations and design as submitted and that we not be subjected to
another level of approval of our project. I would like to also reiterate that it is with great
expense that we are willing to take the architectural treatments on these buildings to all
four sides of all buildings, whether they face a property line or the neighborhood or a
street or not, that is something that you typically do not see in single residential
architecture, multi-family residential architecture, commercial architecture. The
emphasis and the money is spent on the sides of facilities that face the public way. And
we are going way beyond that in our proposal and we are doing it willingly and we
believe in the interest of making it a better quality project, making it harmonize with the
neighborhood and in response to your specific requests of us. We believe that we have
come up with an architectural concept that may not meet the letter of your request to us,
but definitely meets the spirit of it and results in a better quality architecture than if we
had just simply gone by the numbers and put enough stone on there to achieve your
request of us. I'd be happy to stand for any further questions.
De Weerd: Council? Yes, Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Madam Mayor. It was stated apparently during a meeting this afternoon that
there was a willingness on your part to fence the north pathway if it were determined
that that north pathway was no longer needed.
Thowless: Absolutely. That is correct, Councilman Rountree.
Rountree: Okay. And with respect to your comments on color -- just anticipating. Who
would judge the complimentary aspect of color? The complimentary color chart? Would
that be something the city staff would have a hand in -- I'm not saying that because I
don't trust you, because if it happens and it becomes an issue, then, that's a question,
who's the judge.
Thowless: Councilman Rountree, Madam Mayor, we have previously submitted a large
color board with actual physical samples of materials and colors on them. Since the last
Public Hearing, since we have been asked to come back, the elevations that we have
shown you have toned down those colors just slightly. The tan is a little more tope than
we are showing now. The green is a little more gray than that color board. But we would
have -- we would be happy to work with staff through the certificate of zoning
compliance process or the building permit application process, show them new physical
samples, show them that they meet the intent of what went through Planning and
Zoning and would have been shown to the neighbors previously and handle it that way.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, there was a comment made that there might be a potential to
lose the screening to the north behind the carriage homes. I didn't see that in your -- in
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December 18, 2007
Page 34 of 87
your drawing. That's not an intent with the change in the shrubbery that you have
proposed?
Thowless: Madam Mayor, Councilman Rountree -- Caleb, could we have that section
graphic back, if it's not too difficult. Within the landscape buffer along the north and west
property lines we have not changed the -- our pallet in terms of the mixture of trees or
the quantity of trees in any way. All we have done reposition with the majority of the
evergreens being between buildings and more deciduous behind the buildings. I guess
that can be argued whether that was an appropriate decision, but the -- there are very
few windows on the north side of those carriage units. The bedrooms, the living room,
the dining room, all face into the project, not toward the homes. There is a small
bathroom window. There is one small bedroom window that looks out that way, but the
primary concern seems to be headlights and within the parking lot and the parking stalls
and so we addressed that concern.
Rountree: Thank you.
Thowless: Thank you.
De Weerd.: I guess I did have a question on the carriage houses, which are the buildings
that are the least in rock accent, because most of it's garage doors., but -- so, we did see
another project recently that used different treatment in the garage doors as more their
accent and can -- can you maybe bring some of that accent through the garage doors --
and Idon't know, I'm still stuck on the safety of those garages and if you put windows in
them, which that's for Mr. Bird. If you put windows in anything it's better; right? But you
do add to the ability to see in there and that's okay if you want to answer it, rather than
your representative. So, I would ask if that would be another way of accomplishing that.
Thowless: Madam Mayor, if I may ask for clarification. If I understand what you're asking
is whether we would be willing, instead of having a rather plain utilitarian garage door on
those units, to --
De Weerd: I couldn't have said it better myself.
Thowless: -- to use a more decorative garage door in a color that's complimentary to the
buildings and consider the incorporation of a small amount of glass lights., so that there
could be visibility into the unit if somebody was suspicions of something being in there
that shouldn't. Does that summarize your concern?
De Weerd: Perfectly said..
Thowless: Okay. Rudeen Development would be willing to -- to do that, yes.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any other questions?
Meridian City Council
December t8, 2007
Page 35 of 87
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay.
Thowless: Thank you.
De Weerd.: Thank you.
Titerman: Excuse me. Madam Mayor, Councilmen. Glen Titerman. We just want to
thank you for your time on this issue and we trust that you will make the best decision
and we leave it in your hands. Thank you very much.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Council, would you like to have discussion before you
close the Public Hearing, just in case you might need further information?
Rountree.: Just in case we might need to. That would be fine.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd.: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I guess I could express some opinions on what has been presented. I think
the revised elevations are a considerable improvement over what we saw before. I do
understand that we asked them to present something to us that showed at least 50
percent stone work. The element that would satisfy me about this, even though they
have not achieved the 50 percent stonework, it isn't that 31 percent of it is stonework
and 69 percent of it is exactly the same on the rest of it. There are, within the remainder
that's not architectural or accent stone, other materials that vary and so I -- they have
achieved the variety that I would be looking for, even though it isn't 50 percent stone.
There are varieties of articulation, varieties of materials. I'll have to admit that the
Renaissance apartments at Hobble Creek are not particularly attractive to me. I think
that's too much brick. So, on the one subject I'm not so stuck that we have to go all the
way to 50 percent, I think they have done other things that do that variation. I like the
Mayor's idea that there should be windows on the garage doors in the carriage units. I
like the applicant's offer to have gables or dormers along the long roof plane of the
maintenance building. Applicant has agreed that they will be the installers of the no
parking signs along Goddard at their cost and as directed by ACHD. They have agreed
to provide the cross-access agreements. They have provided by re-arranging the
landscaping I think better screening of headlights to the north. And I do agree that -- I
generally would come down on the side of saying we need to have the pathway
connections and I understand the reason for them. In this particular case, I go the other
way. I can see the problem with people wanting to park in front of the larger homes and
just walk through the pathway and I could see that becoming a problem, who's
Meridian City Council
December 18, 2007
Page 36 of 87
accessing back and forth through that at what hours of the night. If it were just the
purpose -- if you could limit it to just children that needed to walk toward the park, that's
necessary. But the opposite problem that is presented makes me consider this an
exception and I would support the idea of the applicant putting a fence across there and
closing that access. I think that's my opinion on the subjects.
De Weerd: Additional comment? Discussion?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd.: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Looking through my pages of notes and issues and concerns and I do think
that a number of the concerns that I expressed last time have been addressed. I still
have a bit of concern on quality assurance and continued quality maintenance --
De Weerd: I'm sorry, your time is up.
Rountree: Thank you, Madam Mayor. It's time for a break. So, that I believe is
something that if we move forward with this we need to craft some language that -- that
-- and possibly the -- Rudeen has language to that effect in their corporate structure.
There have been some things brought up this evening, paying for the fence on the north
pathway. I am a firm believer in interconnectability of neighborhoods. I'm really torn
about do you have them or not in this situation. I guess I could side the way Dave did.,
that it not happen and we have got a commitment from Rudeen that they would fence
that off. I assume in a like fence. There has been comments made about adding
additional -- either dormers or dormer-like additions onto their storage building. I think
that would help that particular plain building, even though there is only one and it
probably is only internal to the project. I concur with the Mayor's comments about the
garage doors and I think some of the garage doors we see nowadays are -- on homes
are actually nicer looking than some of the homes they are on. So, I think there is a
possibility to improve that particular facade. I'm a little concerned about the availability
of a space underneath a rental property that could be .rented to someone else that's not
living space. I can see that that could created multiple problems. I'd like to hear more
about that at some point in time or research more about that at some point in time to
see if they really are problems, but, apparently, as the applicant has indicated, at least
one of those units is usually lease -- in the lease agreement. I would say that in this
particular case at least one of those units will be if it moves forward. I think a good
number, if not all, with the exception of color, have been addressed as far as the design
elements. The landscaping and the cross-sections helped explain to me what it was you
were trying to accomplish. Thank you. One thing that was brought up at the last hearing
and is not actually part of this hearing, but a part of our discussion is the concern of
construction workers in a construction site management and construction equipment --
equipment and material storage and there was an indication that there would be either
Meridian City Council
December 18, 2007
Page 37 of 87
an easement or an agreement reached on the property to the south that would
accommodate that. I would certainly ask that that be included in the CUP to make sure
that the construction workers, if it goes forward, would be required to park in that area
and not on street in the neighborhood. I can't and apparently a previous Council did
already address the density in this particular application. I think the question was asked
about a right turn only on Goddard, even though you could paint and island and raise
berm and median and all that sort of thing, but you can't stop it, they are public streets.
Mr. Inselman is here tonight, if we want to hear about public streets. There is public
safety issues with the streets, there are engineering design problems with streets,
ACHD will take care of those, ACHD will do the design and engineering and operations
and maintenance and City of Meridian's public safety, traffic safety commission, which
ultimately would report to the City Council and it's through the police department on
speeding issues. In my mind those are always issues. They are issues in everybody's
neighborhoods. They are issues that every neighborhood needs to consider and it's not
just the new people in the neighborhood, it's all of you here this evening and it's all of
your neighbors that will either make that successful or not. So, you can engineer all you
want and you can paint all you want, but it's not going to go away. I guess that's all I
have to say in terms of discussion and things that I have seen and observed, heard.
Madam Mayor -- and I very much appreciate the public on this particular application and
process. It's tough for them and I got to tell you it's tougher for us. But the way you have
approached the Council, very professionally, very open. Hopefully, we have been open
and professional with you. Sometimes I get a little caustic with people, but that's me.
just want to get to the answers that satisfy my questions. But, again, all of you folks -- i
don't know what the outcome's going to be, we will probably know in the next half an
hour, but I appreciate the way you have handled yourself, both the citizens of Meridian
and the folks that are interested in providing another housing medium for the City of
Meridian. So, that's my last comment.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird,.
Bird: First of all, I don't believe I have ever seen an applicant come back and come as
close to what we have asked and I certainly appreciate that and I -- I certainly
understand. I'm like Charlie, I appreciate the public coming out. They have been very
professional about it and we all don't like it in our backyards, you know. I happen to be
an oldtimer that's had 1,800 people here when I moved to Meridian and I have seen a
lot of not in my backyard. I do think they have dressed it up. I almost wish that we could,
on demand on houses, as much stone and brick as we are demanding on these people,
because while a lot of homes do have a lot of brick, a lot of them don't. Or stone. So,
that's up to everybody's own taste. Trafficwise, being from Old Town, we have traffic
speeding problems and don't have any new developments. That all comes -- and the
Meridian City Council
December 18, 2007
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more you get in, the more you`re going to have. You have already got it out there and
I'm sure with 171 units you're going to have a little more of it. That's what our police are
for, to stop it down. But I just want to thank the public and the applicant for being so
professional about getting this done and it isn't easy to sit up here and say yea or nay.
But we -- I feel I have to do what I feel is best for the community as a whole. That's all I
have got.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Gorton: There is not much left to say. You know, I do agree with the remarks of all three
Councilmen up here and in particular praise for the public. For those that don't come
every Tuesday, sometimes there is applications that come before us and we hear an
applicant say,-- they promised X and the public say, no, when we met they promised Y,
and it seems silly, but that's a problem we are faced with a lot and this project we didn't
hear that. We haven't heard that type of disagreement and allegations of dishonesty.
think Glen and Tracy in particular I applaud your efforts to work on this project on behalf
of the community and those in the room. I think there has been some great
improvements. Councilman Zaremba and Rountree in particular listed, quite frankly, a
laundry list of improvements that when we continued this matter there was two ways
this could have gone and one is could have been continued disagreement and come
back fighting or some progress. So, it sounds like both parties are to be commended for
the progress. You know, of the list of issues for me, the connectivity on the pathway is --
didn't expect that to be as difficult an issue. I am really really supportive of as much
connectivity in this entire city as possible. And you could argue this one either way. You
really could. It's a tough one. After Councilman Zaremba's comments I envisioned
asking Rudeen to install a little person with a little arm that says if you're taller than this
you can't pass by. Something theme park oriented for it. As silly as that is, it's really --
that's the only thing you could do to try and keep its use for its intended purpose. So,
that's a tough one. The pathway. Because I am -- I'm supportive of it, but I understand
the public's concerns. I appreciate the applicant's willingness to do whatever this
Council deems appropriate. So, those are my comments at the time.
De Weerd: Council, I guess I just have a couple of comments and maybe, first, a
quesfiion for Caleb. On the landscaping and fencing around the perimeter, is this
installed before the first building permit?
Hood: Madam Mayor, Council members, I had that up. Let me pull that condition up to
see exactly how that's worded currently, based on the Planning and Zoning
Commission's conditions.
De Weerd: Okay. And I guess just a point to reaffirm something I said last -- earlier this
month. And that was regarding the circulation and the number of buildings before
Meridian City Council
December 18, 2007
Page 39 of 87
another access was put in and I know the fire department has agreed that an
emergency access on Goddard -- or Goddard, whatever it's called -- is sufficient. I think
we need to look at that as a city, because I disagree and I'm not the fire official, but it
does concern me the emergency access is on the same road as the primary and that
we don't have any restriction for another access on a different road when you look at the
number of buildings and the number of units that are going to go in there. That is a
concern to me and I would like to see a requirement that there is another access
through one of the stubs to the south, but I don't think -- well, Council can do that if they
deem it possible, but that is a concern. And the last piece is also something I brought up
at the last one. We did asked the ACRD to make comment on the improvements in that
area of the intersections at McMillan and Linder and the intersection improvement at
McMillan and Ten Mile. I do think there needs to be a coordination of the timing of those
improvements, because they are in the near future and occupancy of these apartments.
So, I will limit my own comments to just those for your consideration as you look to
approve this and it looks like Caleb has found it.
Hood: Yeah. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, if you -- I don't know if you can
see that or not. I'll read it to you. It's condition 1.1.20 and it does say prior to obtaining
the first certificate of occupancy all landscaping along the north and west property lines
shall be installed. And, then, it goes on. Prior to obtaining any occupancy for any
building, all development improvements, such as irrigation, parking and landscaping
shall be installed on that building site. So, basically, the perimeter stuff needs to be in
before the first occupancy, then, the landscaping and parking and such around each
building needs to be in before that particular building receives a certificate of
occupancy.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you, Caleb. Okay. Council, any additional information or
discussion?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird.: Hearing none, I move we close the Public Hearing on AP 07-009.
Rountree: Second..
De Weerd.: Okay. I have a motion and a second to close the Public Hearing on this. All
those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
Meridian City Council
December 1'8, 200.7
Page 40 of 87
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: If I might ask counsel for general information. What -- what form of motion are
we -- we would either reject the Conditional Use Permit. We would accept the Planning
and Zoning's conditions. We would create new conditions or we would modify Planning
and Zoning conditions. Am I right on all of those?
Nary: Councilmember Rountree, you're right on all of those.
Rountree: Okay.
Nary: The Council's decision point now -- this was an appeal of the Planning and Zoning
-- or, excuse me, a review of the Planning and Zoning, so the Conditional Use Permit is
in front of you.. The option of this Council is to move to approve with the conditions as
were presented by Planning and Zoning and the staff, to move for approval with the
conditions modified as you wish, based on the testimony that you received both tonight
and at the prior hearing in front of you. Or move to deny with direction to the applicant
as to what conditions they just need to be approved. So, you have three choices.
De Weerd: You guys are better at waiting than I am. Is there any additional information
needed or --
Zaremba: I believe we are waiting for Councilman Rountree to take the stab at it.
Rountree: I'm stabbing away. Just give me a minute.
Zaremba: You can't see it, but he's furiously making notes.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we approve the Conditional Use Permit conditions made by
Planning and Zoning with modifications specific to the commitments made by Rudeen,
comments made by Council and staff addressing the concerns of the citizens and on
those areas that there has not been a decision, that the Council not require the
connection of the north pathway and that would be -- that pathway from Wapoot Street
would be fenced at the expense of Rudeen. The modification of the roof elevation for
the Building H, I believe is its moniker -- Building H to add either a dormer or alterations
to the gable as discussed with the neighborhood. That the CUP require off-site parking
and storage of construction materials and equipment in -- for parking to the south of this
site. The removing of the stricken portion of the landscape requirement and putting back
in the findings -- or the permit the requirement of a three inch caliper material. And that
the applicant provide staff its business plan, its maintenance guidelines, and assurance
Meridian City Council
December 18, 2007
Page 41 of 87
that there will be an on-site -- that there will be an on-site presence, not necessarily
living, but presence of facilities operation staff and facilities maintenance staff at least
six days a week. That the ground level garage -- one ground level garage unit below the
carriage house will be part of the lease to the upper level carriage home. Madam Mayor,
believe everything else that we discussed was agreed to, so that would be part of the
first part of my motion, so --
Bird: Mr. Rountree, before I second this, the date of the elevations that we are going on
is December 7th, 2007, am I not right?
Rountree: That's the correct date on the elevations and that those elevations need to be
included as part of a Conditional Use Permit.
Bird: Okay. I will second it, then.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Discussion. I did not hear the addition of -- or requirement of windows on the
garage doors on the carriage units.
Rountree: I believe we had testimony to the effect that that will be done.. That was part
of my motion.
De Weerd,: Okay. Any additional discussion?
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Council Members, Councilmember Rountree, the -- Madam Mayor
had brought up the intersection improvements and that was discussed at the prior
hearing. Is that part of your motion? I don't believe those were part of the staffs
recommendation, so I didn't know if you wanted that included or not.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, Iwould -- I would add to my motion that staff work with the
fire department to establish the maximum number of units that could be occupied before
an established secondary access to the south is created. As far as the intersection
improvements, those are already agreed to by other applicants and Ada County
Highway District, so I don't make that part of my motion.
Bird: Second agrees.
Meridian City Council
December t8, 2007
Page 42 of 87
De Weerd.: Okay. Anything further from Council? Okay. Mr. Beg, will you call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Council, I'll call a ten minute recess.
(Recess.)
Item 9: Public Hearing: CPA 07-012 Request for an amendment to the
Comprehensive Plan Future Land Use Map to change the land use
designation from Low Density Residential to Commercial for Strada
Bellissima Commercial by Strada Bellissima Commercial, LLC -NWC of
Meridian Road and Victory Road at 114 and 156 West Victory Road (Lots
2 & 3, Block 2, Strada Bellissima No. 1 Subdivision):
Item 10: Public Hearing: RZ 07-013 Request for a Rezone of 1.76 acres from L-O
to C-N zone for Strada Bellissima Commercial by Strada Bellissima
Commercial, LLC -NWC of Meridian Road and Victory Road at 114 and
156 West Victory Road (Lots 2 & 3, Block 2, Strada Bellissima No. 1
Subdivision):
De Weerd: Okay. I'll go ahead and continue the meeting tonight. Our next public
hearings are Items 9 and 10 on CPA 07-012 and RZ 07-013. I will open these two public
hearings with staff comments.
Hood: Thank you, Madam Mayor and Members of the Council. The subject 1.76 acre
site is located on the north side of Victory Road just west of Meridian Road.. The
property is currently zoned L-O and designated for low density residential on the future
land use map, which you can see on this map, which is our Comp Plan currently. This
property, as well as the surrounding properties are all designated low density residential
and that is, as you mentioned earlier, one of the applications the applicant is seeking to
change their designation. Here is the zoning map for the subject site. The site is
currently zoned L-O, as I mentioned, as well as the frontage lots along Meridian Road
there in the Strada Bellissima project and those lots are developing out with office,
professional office space. I believe they are a little more than half built right now. There
is -- they continue to pull building permits through the city. The other adjacent land uses
are primarily single family homes in Strada Bellissima in various phases. Phase one is
to the north. To the south there are some vacant properties and some properties that
have homes in the county. You see the white properties, they are still Ada county and
have not been annexed into the city. To the east across Meridian Road is Double D and
the Emerson Park project, which those findings were on earlier tonight. Again, the
applications are a Comprehensive Plan map amendment to change the future land use
Meridian City Council
December 18, 2007
Page 43 of 87
designation from low density residential to commercial and a concurrent rezone request
from L-O to C-N, which is our neighborhood business district. The applicant is
requesting the rezone to allow retail and restaurant uses on this site. Just a little bit of
history on this site and how we got to where are we now. In 2004 the City Council
granted approval for the annexation and zoning of approximately 44 acres to R-4 and L-
O. There is a preliminary plat associated with that in 2004, as well for 90 residential lots
and 14 office lots and a Conditional Use Permit for a mixed use planned development.
In 2006 the City Council approved the annexation and zoning of .43 acres L-O for an
out-parcel, which is a portion of the subject site. You can kind of see on this map -- and
let's if I can hold this pointer straight enough -- this .43 acres was an out-parcel that was
never part of the original Strada Bellissima project that was annexed, again, a couple of
years later. The office uses that were approved along here were part of the 20 percent
use exception that the city used to use to allow land uses that weren't consistent with
the Comprehensive Plan. Similar to the Selway project. So, the city does not do that
anymore, but that's how those offices got there, when, in fact, it's shown for low density
on our land use map. The access into the site will be provided from a local street,
Galvani Drive. No access is permitted onto Victory Road and none is proposed. All
internal streets and access points are already constructed for the subject property. On
November 1st the Planning and Zoning Commission voted to recommend approval of
the subject applications. The applicant testified in favor of. We did not have any
opposition in testimony or written testimony at that hearing and the key issues of
discussion were the potential for adrive-thru establishment to go into the site and, then,
impact that that could have on the surrounding neighborhood. We did note to the
Commission at that time and I'll note to the Council as well, that with the requested
zoning adrive-thru could not be a principally permitted use in the requested zone. If
they were to want to put adrive-thru in, that would need to go through the Conditional
Use Permit process and would require another hearing. I don't think they would
probably do that, because they have heard negatives since day one about putting a
driveway -- or drive-thru restaurant even adrive-thru business on this site.. But just so
you're aware, that would require another Public Hearing should they go that direction.
There were no key changes to staff recommendation at the Commission hearing and I
have not received any additional written testimony since that hearing. However, Bill
Parsons, who was the assigned planner on this project, has had a couple people call
him on the phone and I believe one came into the office and inquired about this project.
So, I believe that they are mainly concerned about the potential for the commercial uses
and increased traffic in the neighborhood. With that I will stand for any questions that
you may have. The staff and the Commission are recommending approval.
De Weerd: Thank you, Caleb.. Any questions at this point, Council?
Bird: I don't, Mayor.
De Weerd: Okay. Is the applicant here?
Meridian City Council
December 18, 2007
Page 44 of 87
Crawford: Madam Mayor, Council. My name is Michael Crawford with Pinnacle
Engineers, 12552 West Executive Drive. We have read through the report, staff report,
and understand and agree with it. We do not have any current applications in, it's
merely we are looking at some marketing possibilities, so we are -- is why we are
looking for the zoning change to have some different uses available for that. Yes, we do
very well understand the drive-thru question and that probably won't be a problem at all..
Again, there is no specific request that we have at this point in time. We don't have a
specific customer for it, just looking at different marketing possibilities with it. I'd stand
for questions.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: I have none at this point.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. This is a Public Hearing. Is there anyone who would like
to provide testimony on this application?
Gardner: My name is Nathan Gardner. I live at 3041 South Alfani Way in Strada
Bellissima Subdivision. And., again, I just would like to point out that most of the lots --
well, (shouldn't say -- a significant number of the lots are not built at this time and so I'm
certain that if there were lots there in there, there would be a lot more against this than
have signed up. I think there is a significant portion of actual residents that have signed
against this proposal. We moved to our home a little less than a year ago on South
Alfani Way and it's a significant investment for us. We got a lot of money tied up into our
home. We -- it's a lot bigger than our previous home and before we chose to move there
we -- my wife called Planning and Zoning to see what -- what uses could -- were
available -- or could be put into this area. And we would not have bought our home if it
would have been changed. The land use designation would have been changed from
low density residential to commercial and the zoning would have been C-N. So, I heard
the applicant say that there -- this is going to help them marketingwise and I can
understand that, but their gain is my loss, because I think that's going to hurt my
property value and my home, which is a significant investment for me. So, that's one of
the reasons why I'm against it. And I will try to be brief as well, but the most important
reason and the reason near and dear to my heart, I guess, why I'm against this
proposal, is I do believe it will increase traffic, there is -- just on our end of the street
there is probably 20 kids. They are good friends. They are out playing in the yards all
the time and I think this is going to increase traffic not only during the day, but in the
evening hours, as well as noise. And that's -- safety is a big issue for me and my family.
And, oh, my wife also wrote her comments. She couldn't come tonight,so I'll give those
to --
De Weerd: Thank you. Yes.
Meridian City Council
December 18, 2007
Page 45 of 87
Gunsweiller: Madam Mayor and City Councilmen. One of the biggest --
De Weerd: If you will, please, state your name and address for the record.
Gunsweiller: Kelly Gunsweiller, 2989 South Alfani Way in Meridian. 83642.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Gunsweiller: Thank you for hearing me tonight. The biggest issue with this is really the
point of access. I mean, one, we definitely do not want retail in the neighborhood at all.
But the point of access is -- I don't know -- there are just lots of issues and I think the
planning -- and I don't know how -- how this has happened., but there is a church here
that has no point of access but strictly through this road right here. What is it? Maestra.
So, we now have all church traffic coming up into our neighborhood and -- I'm shaking.
sorry. But there is no -- so, there is discussion that people getting out of church will not
be able to make aright-hand turn or a left-hand turn at Meridian. So, now the church is
forcing all of the traffic straight down Alfani Way out here to turn at the light at Victory
and Meridian. So, there is a ton of increased traffic already here, which was not
planned. There is no point of access for the church. I don't know what -- there is another
subdivision going in here. I don't know the point of access, but now all these people are
now going to have to come in through our subdivision to get to this retail. So, Alfani Way
has now turned into another main street between the two points on either side and it's
just -- it's just getting crazy and the children and everything on the street and it's just
insanity Sunday. Let along with soccer practice, they are saying having it at the church
and it just -- there needs to be some access points or something. The retail, the drive-
thu, all that is -- it's just -- it's inappropriate for the number of homes.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Gunsweiller: Thank you.
James: Kathy James. 2825 South Garibaldi. Basically I want to say that I agree with
both the two previous testimonies that were given. Right now if you allow this change --
the reason the developer has said that he wants to make this change is to give him
more opportunities for -- I assume leasing. But if you make a zoning change, the zoning
is there in perpetuity, whereas the real estate market, by and .large, because I used to
be in it, is cyclical. It will come back. He may have to wait, but that is something that he,
as a developer, should know ahead of time. In addition, my husband and I feel the same
way as the Gardners, that we would not have bought in this subdivision had we known
that something commercial was going in. We did know about the office designation.
That was perfectly fine. The developer, I think, is in a sense trying to do a bait and
switch, because right now the homeowners association, to the best of my knowledge,
has -- is not in full operation. I believe the developer is still the declarant. And the
Meridian City council
December 18, 2007
Page 46 of 87
notification that was given to the people in the subdivision was only the official 300 feet
around and, yes, because we aren't a completed subdivision, a lot of the lots are still
undeveloped -- I mean unbuilt on and., yes, that has impacted the number of people who
knew that this was moving forward to voice their objections. Lastly, the traffic is a huge
impact. In addition to the church, which is being funneled into -- down Alfani to Victory,
we right now have them not only parking in the church parking lot, but they are already
parking in the office area just off of Maestra on the north side and the -- now that the
development Shepherd Creek has gone forward., we are finding -- we live on Garibaldi,
we are finding that people from Bear Creek are using Garibaldi now to come up to get to
Victory or to get to Meridian Road, both Garibaldi and also through Orso. So, we are to
the point where the traffic is really -- everyfhing is being funneled through our little
subdivision, so my -- what I wish is that this can be completely denied and left as it
originally was proposed. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Bingham: Julie Bingham. 3007 South Alfani Way. L, too, live on Alfani. We are the third
house in from this proposed change. I have five small children of my own. I'm very
concerned and I think that the developer would be wise to not. He's heard testimony
now from everybody saying that if they would known that it was commercial, that they
would not have bought in here. I think you're going to have a really hard time to sell the
rest of the lots that are not sold yet. They are trying to sell them, but to change that to
commercial would really be a detriment, I think, because nobody would buy in there with
children, which I think that with the park -- there is a park in our neighborhood. Families
were looking for something to become a tight close community and have their children
come out and play and with the increased traffic I think that that will be a real detriment
to our neighborhood and to our children and like was said, there are about 22 children
within about nine houses and that's not including around the corner where there are
more. So, I would like to make my statement to oppose changing that zoning. Thank
you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Steves: Madam Mayor -- oh, I'm Kelly Steves at 3058 South Alfani Way. Madam Mayor
and City Council members, I live within that 300 foot supposed area where we should
have been notified.. This -- if it wasn't for Shannon Gardner's letter, I would still know
nothing about this. I haven't received anything from the City of Meridian on this. Maybe I
fell through the loophole, like a project did earlier tonight on -- on an end. I don't know --
Idon't know the proper procedure for this, but does Ada -- do you guys know what the
traffic count is for Ada county to access an approach -- a couple approaches for the
church? Because what I have heard from the church was they wanted four accesses off
their parking lot onto Meridian Road and Ada county denied that. Is this the time to ask
that question or not?
Meridian City Council
December 18, 2007
Page 47 of 87
Rountree: It's not Ada county's road.
De Weerd..: Yeah, It's ITD.
Steves: It's ITD's?
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Steves: Okay.
De Weerd: And., yes, they --
Steves: So, that's the -- I guess that's the history that I have gotten from the church. So,
the church opens up. There was a guy standing on the corner of Maestra directing
traffic right up South. Alfani, right up through the houses, close accidents, and it was just
kind of a circus. But just solid bumper to bumper cars. We did receive a letter from the
church stating that there were -- they apologized for the amount of traffic going up the
street, because the first Sunday at church being open they had over a thousand
parishioners and like this man said, the overflow parking -- their parking lot isn't even big
enough for the amount parishioners there. They are parking in the business, parking in
behind the house. That's another time, but it's -- the parking lot isn't big enough. I'm
sure there is a fire code or something -- some sort of safety issue is being violated
there. Not definitely. But the parking lot isn't big enough for how many people are in
there going to church, unless everybody, including kids, are driving their vehicles. A lot
more traffic. If this were to go -- I strongly am opposed to any sort of commercial
property in behind the house. Grew up in a real small town in Wyoming, moved to the
big city here, and I don't want it my backyard. Thank you very much.
De Weerd: Thank you. Is there any further testimony? Okay. Would the developer like
to have the final word?
Crawford: Pardon me, It certainly won't be the final word. Mike Crawford again with
Pinnacle Engineers, 12552 West Executive. I'm a little caught off guard and I apologize
for that. Through the previous Public Hearing and neighborhood notifications and so
forth we had no response, so I'm a little caught off on some of these issues. Number
one, we had no idea that another property was funneling their traffic through our
subdivisions and we will be finding out about that real quickly. I think maybe there is a
little misunderstanding about the type of commercial that we are looking at. This C-N
designation is a neighborhood commercial. We're talking about a small mom and pop
type store, we are not looking at putting in a Wal-Mart or something. But, actually, we --
one of the things we had envisioned was that would be something that would serve the
neighborhood, Bear Creek and Strada Bellissima and be a place where they could
potentially shop and cut down traffic, looking at pulling in traffic from everywhere else.
Again, with the neighborhood commercial. Again, there is no specific commercial entity
Meridian City Council
December t8, 2007
Page 48 of 87
we have right now that's applied and we would be going through another Public Hearing
process involved in taking out that application, right, Caleb?
De Weerd.: Is there another active application?
Crawford.: No. I mean if -- if we did have a client on a commercial project come in, even
if we had the C-N designation, we would still be looking at public hearings when we
applied for that.
De Weerd: No. Once it's permitted -- unless it falls under the category of -- it would have
to be under a conditional use, but once it's rezoned it is permitted.
Crawford: Okay. That's all I have.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, questions?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Caleb, could you run through quickly the potential uses that would be
covered by a C-N.
Hood: You mean like principally permitted, conditionally allowed, or both or -- I can do
principally permitted first and, then, conditional allowed..
Rountree: Please.
Crawford..: Okay. So, in the requested C-N principally permitted uses are an animal care
facility, so a vet clinic. An artist studio. Arts, entertainment, or recreation facility indoors.
A church. Day care. Health care or social service. Information industry. Laundromat.
Park. Professional office or professional services. So, spa or something of the like.
Public or quasi-public use. Public utility minor. Restaurant. Retail store. And wireless
communication facility. Some of those do have specific use standards, too, associated
with them, like the wireless. They can just put up a cell tower. There is certain general
requirements that they need to meet. Now, conditionally allowed uses include arts,
entertainment, or recreation facility outdoors. Building material, garden equipment and
supplies. Civic, social or fraternal organizations. Adrive-thru establishment. A private
education institution. A public education institution. A fuel sales facility. A gas station. A
hotel, motel. Mortuary. Nursery or urban farm. Nursing or residential care facility. Public
parking facility. Parks, public and private. I'm sorry, that was principally permitted. Public
infrastructure. Vehicle washing facility. A vertically integrated residential product. That's
it.
Meridian City Council
December 18, 2007
Page 49 of 87
Rountree: Thank you.
De Weerd: Any further questions?
Rountree: I have none. Thank you.
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd.: Anyone else? Okay.
Crawford: One other comment I would like to make is that the lots -- the little half round
dome, if you will, was an out-parcel that we are bringing in and incorporating it into
those two lots. So, the lots are staying basically the same size as they are now and we
realize that whatever business we are looking at, we do have some restrictions in terms
of the amount of parking that is available. So, again, we are not looking for a major retail
usage, but a smaller neighborhood usage.
De Weerd: Okay. Caleb, I guess I would have a question of you on -- if this was
rezoned, is there a building size restriction. I know total square footage there is, but is
that by building?
Hood: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council -- excuse me, I'm trying to get over a
cold., too, so my throat is a little bit dry, obviously, but, yeah, in that requested zone
there is a maximum 6,000 square foot building without -- before we have to go through
our design review process. So, you could potentially construct a larger building than
that. However, this is only a 1.6, I think, acre site. It's fairly small. I could see maybe a
couple of sites -- maybe a couple of users going on there, but, again, nothing in the
neighborhood of Wal-Mart or big box or anything like that. Once you have parking,
landscaping., it just won't accommodate it at this scale.
De Weerd.: Well, your list was kind of intimidating.
Hood.: And they don't take into account size of property. So, obviously, a Home Depot,
something that would be, you know, conditionally allowed, is not going to fit on there.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Thank you, sir.
Crawford: Thank you.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd.: Yes, Mr. Zaremba.
Meridian City Council
December 18, 2007
Page 50 of 87
Zaremba: I guess another question for Mr. Hood and that is it's currently zoned L-O,
which means there cannot be residential on this property now. Is that correct?
Hood: Madam Mayor, Commissioner Zaremba, I believe with a Conditional Use Permit
they could actually put in multi-family on the site in the existing L-O zone, but that would
require a Conditional Use Permit. But single family is not allowed in L-O.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Caleb, I'm going to keep you talking. I'm sorry you're not feeling well and we
keep asking you questions. In the pre-application meeting notes there is a comment --
and it doesn't make reference to which planning staff member made it, but I'll read it and
see if you can flush it out a little bit for us. It talks about the original L-O zone for this --
forthis property and the sentence is the L-O is justified to buffer the residential in Strada
from highway. C-N is higher intense use and there will be nothing to buffer residential
from commercial. Can you elaborate on that a little bit, at least with regards to the
original intent on the L-O and -- it sounds like the C-N is -- removes the buffer that we
intended this to serve.
Hood: Yeah. Madam Mayor, Commissioner Borton -- Councilmember Borton, the L-O
zone is, you know, intended for light office. A lesser intense non-residential use and
when this was approved I was just actually starting on with Meridian planning at the time
and like I mentioned earlier, it was approved as a 20 percent use exception and quite
common today we do use L-O as kind of that transitional zone between either higher
intensity commercial or highway. Sticking single family residences up to a highway
doesn't make much sense either, so you kind of use that as your buffer, if you will,
between uses. And in that pre-application meeting staff wasn't overly supportive of the
applicant's request and we saw this .being quite the change. I mean another step up in
intensity being this close to residential. So, at that point in time we hadn't made our --
we hadn't formulated our full recommendation and were kind of on the fence about, you
know, this is going to take some work on your part to convince us that this is in the best
interest of the city. So, I believe that's where that comment's going. Now, some things
have come into -- that we have to account for today are if you look at it -- and I'm sorry I
don't have something that goes in a little bit closer, we have roads on three sides. You
have got Victory Road here, you have got -- and this name escapes me of this road
here and you have got Alfani and here. So, really, there aren't any residential directly
abutting this site anyway, so the -- any landscape buffering is going to be the same
regardless of use that goes in here. So, that aspect of it really hasn't changed. And,
then, to kind of take that a step further, we have four zoning classifications, I'm sure you
all know that, but maybe for the general public. L-O is our least intense. The next step
up is C-N. We have two more that are more intense that than. This is the next step up.
It's not -- it's not C-C and it's not C-D, which is our most intense commercial and staff --
Meridian City Council
December Y8, 2007
Page 51 of 87
you know, this wasn't an easy recommendation for us, but it does seem to make sense
and looking at the services that are out there now and what may be the oversupply of
office, maybe a restaurant could be a good fit here if they can market it and find
someone that works and we looked again at the scale of this one and a half acres. What
could they do? Yeah, they could technically put in a Wal-Mart there with a Conditional
Use Permit, but we didn't see that being feasible. I think the market will kind of control
what -- at least from staff we thought that the market would control and it would be
something smaller scale neighborhood serving.
Borton: Okay. Thank you, Caleb.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions, Council?
Rountree: I have none.
Bird: I have none, Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: Okay. If there is no further questions, what would you like to do?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Rountree: I move that we close the public hearings on Item No 9 and Item No. 10 for
Strada Bellissima.
Bird: Second.
Borton: Second..
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion to close Items 9 and 10. All those in favor say aye. All
ayes, motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor'?
De Weerd.: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I'll stick my foot in, I guess, to begin with. I would have to say that I'm in favor
of the Comprehensive Plan amendment. When this project came forward I was on the
Planning and Zoning Commission and we felt that it -- with the future of Meridian Road,
which doesn't look it even yet, but some day will be carrying the kind of traffic that Eagle
Road does, we felt it wasn't appropriate to have residences on Meridian Road or for
Meridian Ciry Council
December 18, 2007
Page 52 of 87
them to have access to Meridian Road in the way that residences would.. At the time --
I'll call it archaic, but at the time the process that Mr. Hood mentioned of having a 20
percent use exception, when this entire subdivision came in and not just this
subdivision, it was common in other planned developments, the 20 percent use
exception meant that even though in many cases retained underlying zone or retained
the Comprehensive Plan zone, a different use was permitted. In this case it did happen
to get zoned to the L-O zone and even though the Comprehensive Plan was not
changed, it still showed that the entire project was a residential project, the use
exception allowed this portion of it to be zoned L-O. The project that we talked about
before this, the Selway Apartments, fell into the same kind of a gap and, unfortunately,
when -- when residents go to do research on a property that went through the old
system, it's difficult to discover that there was a use exception. One of the first things
that our director did when she came on board was to change that process, so that we
don't do it that way anymore, we do zone them to what the intended use is. So, I think
we have fixed that on a going forward basis, but I have the feeling there shouldn't be
that many of them left out there and at some point somebody needs to go looking for
them on the staff and get them changed., so the zone -- so that we don't keep having a
hidden use that it's difficult for people to discover. So, where I was go with that is I do
agree with the Comprehensive Plan amendment, because that, actually, identifies the
property as the use that has already been approved for it. Whether or not I would
change it from L-O to C-N, I could go either way on that. When it originally came
through I was happy with the L-O. I suppose I could be talked into the either one.
De Weerd.: Thank you. Any additional comments from Council?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: I have none. Do you want to take a run at it?
Zaremba: All right. Madam Mayor, I move that we approve CPA 07-012 regarding
Strada Bellissima commercial to include all staff comments.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I'll second that for discussion.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to approve Item 9. Discussion?
Hood: Madam Mayor, before you go into discussion, if I may, I may have been hacking
up a lung over here, but I believe the Public Hearing is still open, unless I missed that,
so --
Bird: Yeah. We did close it. Yeah. Charlie did.
De Weerd: I thought we closed it.
Meridian City Council
December 18, 2007
Page 53 of 87
Hood: I may have just missed it.
De Weerd.: I thought I was losing it.
Rountree: It's your cold, Caleb. It's the cold.
De Weerd: You know, Council, I guess I understand the buffering of the office, but with
the configuration and the odd topography in that area, I do believe that the light office is
lower intensity use and is appropriate as that transition. It does have some traffic
challenges in that area and to increase it, I -- it will be complicated and it's not that far
away from the intersection, you're not going to get a light there, so I would be concerned
about the increase in traffic because of the commercial designation. Light office has a
lesser impact.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: That's my two cents worth. Yes, Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I could easily agree with you. That, however, is my next motion.. I only made it
-- I purposely separated them. I only made the motion on the Comprehensive Plan
amendment.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd.: Yes, Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I can agree with where Councilman Zaremba is going, but I would suggest
that to change from low density residential, which is shown on the map, to commercial
L-O designation on that particular item and that address the rezoning as no change,
which would be Item 10.
Zaremba.: If I understood that correctly, Madam Mayor and Councilman Rountree, you
would wish to add to the motion, not just changing the designation from low density
residential to commercial, but changing it to commercial, specifically L-O on the
Comprehensive Plan.
Rountree: Because that's how it's zoned already.
Zaremba: The maker of the motion will accept that. Will make that change. Although I'm
not sure we do that on --
Rountree: Do we have a color that does that?
Zaremba: -- we don't actually specify zoning.
Meridian City Council
December 18, 2007
Page 54 of 87
Hood: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, if I may, we have an actual purple
designation that is for office, so that makes it a lot easier than doing it commercial and,
then, calling it office. We do have a land use designation..
Rountree: So, let's just call it office, so we don't get the item yet confused again.
Zaremba: All right. The maker of the motion would change CPA 07-012 to approve the
change of land use designation on the map from low density residential -- why can't I
say that -- low density residential to office uses.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. We already had a motion out there.
Rountree: He amended his motion.
Zaremba: I was modifying the motion.
De Weerd: Oh. Okay. And --
Rountree: I agree with him --
De Weerd.: -- second agrees. Okay.
Zaremba: I can start from scratch and restate the motion.
De Weerd: Thank you for the clarification on your first motion.
Zaremba: Okay. Madam Mayor --
De Weerd: No. You're good. Does everyone know what the motion is? More importantly
does the attorney.
Nary: Absolutely.
Zaremba: I would be happy to restate it from scratch if that's desirable.
De Weerd: I think that would be great.
Zaremba: Okay. Madam Mayor, my motion is that we approve CPA 07-012 relating to
Strada Bellissima commercial, to include all staff comments with the one change and
that change is that we are approving the change of land use designation on the map
from low density residential to office uses.
Meridian City Council
December 18, 2007
Page 55 of 87
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. Is there any discussion? Hearing none, Mr. Berg, will you call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Okay. Item 10. Yes, Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I would move that we deny Item 10, RZ 07-013, the request to change the
zone from L-O to C-N and to reaffirm that it should remain L-O.
Rountree: Second..
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to deny Item No. 10. Discussion,
Council? Seeing none, Mr. Berg.
Roll-Call.: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 11: Public Hearing: CPA 07-011 Request fora Comprehensive Plan
Amendment to modify the Future Land Use Map to change the land use
designation on 38.7 acres from Medium Density Residential to Mixed Use
Community to include Office /Retail, Private School and Patio Homes for
Dean Property by David J. Dean - 6380 North Locust Grove Road
(southeast Corner of North Locust Grove and East Chinden):
Item 12: Public Hearing: AZ 07-017 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 40.4
acres from RUT to C-C zone (21.3 acres), R-8 zone (6.27 acres) and R-2
(12.87 acres) for Three Corners by David Dean - 6380 North Locust
Grove Road:
Item 13: Public Hearing: PP 07-021 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 54
lots including: 33 residential lots, 11 commercial lots and 10 common lots
on 40.4 acres in the proposed C-C, R-8 and R-2 zoning districts for Three
Corners by David Dean - 6380 North Locust Grove Road:
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Items 11, 12 and 13 are related. Mr. Nary, would I open
them all at the same time?
Nary: Yes, Madam Mayor, as long as the Council acts on Item 11 prior to the others.
Meridian City Council
December 18, 2007
Page 56 of 87
De Weerd: Okay. So, I will open up the public hearings on Items CPA 07-011, AZ 07-
017and PP 07-021 with staff comments.
Hood.: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. The subject applications
before you are three. The first one, the Comprehensive Plan amendment, does carry a
different name than the other two, the development applications, but they all are going
to be presented simultaneously as legal counsel just mentioned., if you could act on the
CPA first before acting on the annexation and plat, that would be appreciated.. So, the
subject site is located at 6380 North Locust Grove Road. It's approximately 40 acres in
size and it's currently zoned RUT in Ada county. Now, this map shows the current future
land use map designation and that is medium density residential, which is our yellow
designation. There is a -- just as a point of reference, there is the purple L-O right there.
Anyways, my pointer went out. But that's what it will look like at Strada Bellissima, so --
and this is a current existing designation for the subject site. To the north of the site are
single family residential homes in Banbury No. 6. That is within the City of Eagle. To the
south are single family residences in Dunwoody Subdivision. That's currently -- all of
those lots are in Ada county. To the west is a church site and Central Academy High
School. Those are also county zoned. And to the east are single family residential,
Fuller Ranchette Subdivision zoned R-1 in Ada county. So, you can see there is a small
piece of the property that does have city limits -- Meridian city limits adjacent to it in the
southwest corner there, that's where the -- the school is, the school site is. The rest of
the properties are in other jurisdictions. The applications are an annexation and zoning
and preliminary plat and an alternative compliance request for commercial street
landscaping. And there is the aerial view -- just cruise right through that one. The
applicant is requesting to amend the future land use map of the Comprehensive Plan
from medium density to mixed use community. The subject site is expected to develop
with a private school, commercial uses along Chinden Boulevard, and patio homes and
estate lots adjacent to the proposed commercial development. The proposed residential
portion of the development will transition from higher density residential patio homes
located internally, to approximately three-quarter acre estate lots adjacent to the
existing county subdivisions that contain the larger lots. So, let me kind of orient you a
little bit here. Locust Grove, Chinden. Their main access is here. There is a nice median
in the middle and they have continued that streetscape through their main boulevard
here. That's what the alternative request is for, by the way. These buildings are pulled
closer to the sidewalks and in commercial -- along commercial streets we require there
beaten foot wide landscape buffer. What they have done is, essentially, take that
landscape buffer that would be required in front of the buildings and move it to the
center of the street. Staff likes that. It does kind of have a new urbanism look -- new
urbanist look and you can -- the front doors for these buildings will be over here.
Pedestrian -- it's very pedestrian friendly. It helps with the architecture being two, three,
and four sided buildings. So, we really were supportive of that -- that requested
alternative compliance request. So, let me jump back to overall. So, here is the main
entrance. There is a pad site located up in the corner of Chinden and Locust Grove.
Meridian City Council
December 18, 2007
Page 57 of 87
mean you have office and retail pads kind of shown throughout the rest of this -- the
remainder portion on the north side -- on the north side of that entry road. Then you
have a patio home complex around this -- this loop road here. And I'll get to some
elevations of those in a second., as well as some elevations for the retail component.
And, then, you have got about three-quarter acre size lots that is a good portion of this
project. And, again, those are adjacent to the Dunwoody and Fuller Ranchettes that are
typically one, two, and three acre size lots. So, it's a pretty good transition from those.
And, then, here is your future private school site. There are -- I'm going to go to the next
exhibit. There are 33 non-residential -- or 33 residential lots. There are 11 nonresidential
lots. That equates to 44 total building lots. And ten common lots. The preliminary plat
shows the full access driveway on Locust Grove Road for the school site. So, I pointed
out the main entrance. There is also a curb cut for the private school shown here and,
then, they will have another access up here and I have another site plan that I can kind
of show as an inset for what that's going to look like. The applicant -- the public street is
located 240 feet south of Chinden Boulevard. No direct lot access to Chinden is
proposed. And I don't get to say that very often, if you want to commend the applicant
on that, they haven't proposed any access to Chinden. The internal public streets are all
public. There is approximately 40 percent of the commercial and future school site that
will be landscaped. Of course, the majority of that 40 percent is for ball fields and your
landscape buffers, but 40 percent of the site dedicated to landscaping. There will be 35
foot landscape buffers along Locust Grove and Chinden. And in the residential portion
of the development the applicant is providing 13 percent open space, so that exceeds
our minimum of ten percent for residential subdivisions. Here is the landscape plan that
mentioned. You can see it's pretty densely populated along the streets with trees, as
well as the landscape buffer along Chinden and Locust Grove. Let's see. There is a --
some sewer and water, I believe, are coming up along this way. I'll maybe let the
applicant talk about that if you have any questions. Here is the conceptual or anticipated
phasing plan. I know they are itching to get going on the private school. I anticipate we
will see that application, assuming this gets approved here tonight. By the way, here is
the inset school site that I talked about previously. So, again, there is that driveway
coming directly off of Locust Grove and here is one off of their internal public street. I do
have some elevations that I'll show you, too, but I just wanted to show you how their
building layout, parking lot, play fields kind of orient on that site and, then, I'm going to
jump to the elevations, if you all have that. So, here's kind of a bird's eye view and, then,
here are the office elevations and I can run through elevations as slowly or as quickly as
you'd like. I think I`II probably jump through them pretty quickly and if you have
questions, I'll go back. Here are the patio home elevations. So, again, this is internal to
the site. I don't recall exactly how many lots were the townhouse variety or how many
were the three-quarter acre variety. I can maybe find that information and follow up if
you -- they do list construction materials. We have tied that -- tied them to those in the
development agreement and I'll touch on that opposite in just a second.. So, let's do that
right now. So, the proposed development requirements -- there are several. I'm going to
touch on just a few that I think are the biggest ones. We have our standard ones about
hooking up to sewer and water and those types of things. We are requiring a minimum
Meridian City Council
December 18, 2007
Page 58 of 87
of eight buildings., with no one building exceeding 33,600 square feet in the commercial
section. And there is a cap on the maximum allowed nonresidential in this project to not
exceed 100,000 square feet. So, regardless of -- you know, so you take the cumulative
of all these buildings and that can exceed 100,000 square feet is what staff is proposing
in the development agreement. They are required to provide the amenities as shown,
including the picnic shelters and barbecues, entry features, a common pathway along
the perimeter and throughout the development and an additional -- additional plaza area
within the commercial portion of the development, to include sitting benches and water
feature.. Windows, awnings, or arcades totaling at least 30 percent of the length of a
facade shall be provided for facades that are viewable from other structures. Exterior
building walls shall demonstrate the appearance of high quality materials of stone, brick,
wood or other native materials. A commercial building design shall incorporate at least
two changes in color, texture, and material. The roof line shall demonstrate two or more
of the following: Overhang eaves, swept roofs, two or more roof planes, varying parapet
heights, and cornaces. And, then, we did require them to clearly define the front
entrances of the buildings with some architectural overhangs over the doors, some
relieve if it's raining, things like that that call people to the front door. On November 1st
the Commission acted on the Comprehensive Plan aspect this report -- or this
application. And, then, two weeks later on November 15 they acted on the annexation
and preliminary plat aspect of this development. At the Public Hearing the applicant
testified in favor and John and Patricia Greiger also testified in favor. There were no --
there was no testimony in opposition or any commenting and didn't receive any written
testimony. The key issues discussed by the Commission were the width of the proposed
center medians and those have grown I think a foot since what was proposed earlier. I
think they went from eight to nine or from eight to ten, right around there. And, then,
there was a question about -- there is a barn out here and it's a real nice barn. It's
associated with the house that's off site in Dunwoody Subdivision. And staff doesn't
necessarily have a problem with the barn staying and., in fact, the Planning and Zoning
Commission allowed that to stay until such time as this area is included in the final plat.
City code does not allow accessory structures to be the only structure on a lot, so they
would need to have a house in order to keep the barn. So, once there is a final plat they
need to find a .new house for the barn or -- yeah, that's., essentially, what it comes down
to is when this lot is final platted the barn needs to go somewhere else. That was
discussed and the Commission discussed an entryway feature located at the center
median and the patio home portion of the development, rather than a water feature. So,
that was a slight change. I think it was here, that it went from water feature to some
other type of amenity -- visual amenity there. I think that's it. I -- the applicant has
submitted an a-mail to staff stating that they don't have any concerns with the staff
report. I don't have any additional hearing that we received. We didn't have ACHD's
comments and conditions at the time this went to the Planning and Zoning Commission,
so those have been inserted into the recommendations document that you reviewed..
Other than that, the staff report is, essentially, the same with the Commission changes.
So, I will stand for any questions you may have.
Meridian City Council
December 18, 2007
Page 59 of 87
De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird.: Caleb, where does that main road go? Does it go all the way out to McMillan?
Hood.: Madam Mayor, Councilmember Bird., this main road right now stubs to about
another -- I believe it's 40 acres or so. Let me go to --
Bird.: Okay. It stops.
Hood: -- a vicinity -- yeah. There is this undeveloped portion back here behind
Dunwoody Subdivision, which was -- a majority of the open space that was platted with
Dunwoody back 15, 20 years ago, whenever that subdivision was done. And we fully
anticipate that that will some day tie into some of these local roads that are stubbed to
that property already. I think there is five that are currently stubbed to this -- to this
property and we are adding a sixth one now. But that will be discussed at a later date
and it will be extended.. Right now they have a temporary turnaround until that time. So,
I think that shows up on the plat. Yeah, you can see the temporary turnaround.
Bird: Follow-up, Mayor.
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Bird: Caleb, that brings up -- that entry, then, is that right-in, right-out only? Only being
240 feet south of Chinden, I believe you said, that isn't a full access, I hope.
Hood: Madam Mayor, Councilmember Bird, I can look at ACHD's staff report and verify.
The applicant may even know off the top of their head, but I will look at ACHD's report. I
don't remember that being a topic of discussion. But, you're right, 220 usually is a right-
in, right-out and they are only 20 feet further than a typical right-in, right-out. So, I will
look up that information.
Bird.: We got Gary right here if you want.
De Weerd.: I'm sure the applicant knows.
Bird..: Yeah. That's all I had.
De Weerd: Anything further from Council?
Rountree: Not at this time.
Meridian City Council
December 18, 2007
Page 60 of 87
De Weerd.: Does the applicant's representative want to come forward? Hi.
Mockwa: Hi. My name is Tim Mockwa with Toothman Orton Engineering, 9777 Chinden
Boulevard. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I don't really have a whole lot to
add, other than what staff has already gone over. I will try to answer a couple of your
questions. The issue with the access drive, it's my understanding -- and I don't have a
copy of AGHD's report right in front of me, but this is intended to be a full access drive
over a public road on Locust Grove. The location of the road was coordinated with staff,
ACHD staff, in that it aligns with this driveway to the property to the west and we are
also -- one of the requirements for ACHD was that we add additional right of way in this
first -- I believe it was 200 feet south of the intersection with Chinden, so that we can
add a left turn lane into this property. So, that alone tells you that it's a -- their tension all
long was that it's a full access. We did submit to the highway district a full traffic study
for the property. In fact, at the time it was submitted it included this 31 acre piece that
staff had pointed out earlier. So, it had even a greater amount of traffic contemplated at
the time we originally submitted it.
Bird.: Thank you.
Mockwa: Other than that, Ireally -- like I said, I don't have anything to add. We are
excited about the project and we think it's a -- it's a pretty creative and innovative
approach and a nice mixed use in this area that really transitions well from these two
busy streets through to some of the lower density residential surrounding us, so with
that I would be happy to answer any additional questions that you might have.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: No.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Mockwa: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. This is a Public Hearing. Is there anyone who like to provide
testimony on this application?
Hood.: If someone wants to come forward,
question.. I found ACHD's staff report and
about 450 feet --
I'm going to answer Councilmember Bird's
have received some of that information, it's
Bird: Oh. Okay.
Meridian City Council
December 18, 2007
Page 61 of 87
Hood: -- to there, so --
Bird: Makes a little difference.
Hood: Yeah. I don't know where the 240 came from, but it is -- it is 450 as conditioned in
ACHD's staff report there. So, I apologize for stating that incorrectly.
Bird: No problem.
De Weerd: Thank you, Caleb. Okay. No members of the public wanting to testify on this
application, any additional remarks from the applicant? Okay.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we close the public hearings on Items 11 --
Zaremba: Second.
Rountree: -- 12 and 13.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion to close the Public Hearing on Items 11 through 13.
All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Okay. Do I have a motion on Item 11 or is there additional comment,
information, or discussion needed?
Rountree: I have nothing.
De Weerd: Okay.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree.: I move we approve Item No. 11, CPA 07-001, subject to staff and applicant
testimony.
Meridian City council
December 18, 2007
Page 62 of 87
Bird.: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to approve Item 11. If there is no
discussion, Mr. Berg.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea.; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Thank you. Item 12.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird.: I move we approve AZ 07-017, request for annexation on three corners by David
Dean and to include all staff and applicant and public testimony.
Rountree:: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to approve Item 12. Mr. Berg, will you,
please, call ro11.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Thank you. Mr. Bird, Item 13.
Bird: I move we approve PP 07-021 and to include all staff, applicant, and public
testimony.
Rountree: Second..
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to approve Item 13. Mr. Berg.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 14: Public Hearing.: AZ 07-015 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 1.88
acres from RUT to an R-2 zone for the property located at 1650
Dunwoody for Dunwoody Property by Marshall Williams - 1650
Dunwoody:
Meridian City Council
December 18, 2007
Page 63 of 87
De Weerd: Thank you. Item 14 is a Public Hearing on AZ 07-015. I'll open this Public
Hearing with staff comments.
Hood: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Item 14 is known as the
Dunwoody property annexation. It's located at 1650 Dunwoody Court, so just a couple
parcels south of the last site. It is a 1.88 acre size -- site and is currently zoned RUT in
the Ada county. The adjacent land uses -- as you can see from the map it's still pretty
rural residential in nature. There are to the north RUT properties in Ada county. To the
east, again, is the Dunwoody Subdivision, which this is also a part of Dunwoody. To the
south are rural residential properties zoned RUT. And Madeline Estates, zoned R-4 is
further down. To the west is the recently approved Reserve Subdivision. You can kind
of see some of that -- the reserve of the Madeline Estates, which is to the southwest.
So, those are the two city approved developments nearest the subject site. A house
was recently constructed on this site and the home received city services and as a
condition of receiving those services the applicant had to apply for -- to annex the
property once contiguous. No new development is proposed for the site. Access to the
site is currently provided from Dunwoody Court. Direct lot access to Locust Grove Road
is being prohibited. Staff is not proposing a DA for this annexation request only. If the
property does redevelop in the future, it will have to be done in accordance with the R-2
zoning district, which is the city's most restrictive and least intense zoning district.
History on this site -- as I mentioned earlier, the site is platted in Dunwoody Subdivision.
It's Lot 1, Block 1. That was an Ada county project. The Meridian Planning and Zoning
Commission did hear this item on November 15th. At that Public Hearing they
recommended approval. In favor was the owner-applicant Marshall Williams. In
opposition were Kent Borgman, Patricia Greiger and Bill Weiser. Written testimony was
received from Don and Sally Atkin, Richard Price and Maureen Miller, John and Patricia
Greiger, Michael and Kim Callahan., David and Luann Dean, Kent Borgman and Terry
Copple. Sonya Wafters was the staff person presenting. The key issue at the Planning
and Zoning Commission was based on the public testimony and that had to do with
whether or not a development agreement should be required, which would prohibit the
property from being further subdivided in the future. The Commission, after discussing
that, decided that the existing CC&Rs for Dunwoody adequately did that and they
decided that it wouldn't be appropriate for the city to also require fihose same
restrictions. So, the staff made no changes to staff recommendation. I already
mentioned the -- the letters that were received and the people that wrote those letters
in. The primary concern, again, was the ability of this property to be resubdivided if it's
annexed,. And that is the -- truly the outstanding issue before you tonight. So, with that --
again, no new development. It's an annexation of the property, because it is receiving
services from the City of Meridian and I will stand for any questions that you may have.
De Weerd: Thank you, Caleb. Any questions at this point, Council?
Bird: Not at this time, Mayor.
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December T8, 2007
Page 64 of 87
Rountree: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Is the applicant here? If you will, please, state your name and address
for the record.
Williams: Marshall Williams, also of Markhard Design and Construction at 2065 East
Fairview and the owner of 1650 Dunwoody Drive, which is the house that you see there.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Williams: First, Ada county permit is what I used, but to do that I had to have a services
permit. Went to Central Health and they said you got to go to Meridian. I said okay.
Anyway, so to go to Meridian, I hook up to city services, which is in Locust Grove Street
and that provided me with sewer and water. Next thing we built the home. And the
property is now being marketed as a single residence on an acreage and that's what we
applied for for annexation is a single residence on acreage. So, there was some
confusion of subdividing, those type of things going on that -- that's not what we applied
for and that's what we are not -- what we are asking for tonight. I did get the permits
back in February. It has taken a -- somewhat some time to do that and I want to thank
Public Works to allow me with a water meter, so I could finish the home and get it
marketed and that about covers it. Mr. Hood has covered most everything that I was
going to talk about.
De Weerd.: Okay. Thank you. Council., any questions?
Bird': I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. I have some people that have signed up to indicate their
opposition or support of this application. When I call your name, if you would like to
provide testimony, please, come forward at that time, otherwise, I will enter into the
record your preference. John Greiger is signed up against.
Greiger: Can my wife testify with me? We'd like to testify together.
De Weerd: Sure. We have John and Patricia Greiger and if you will introduce yourself,
so we can enter you into the record.
Greiger: My name is John Greiger. My wife Patricia. We reside at 1682 East Dunwoody
Court and we are adjacent to the property in question.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Meridian City council
December 18, 2007
Page 65 of 87
Greiger: We'd like to clarify a few points that have been misleading throughout the
whole application and annexation and rezoning process of the property located at 1650
Dunwoody Court. Mr. Williams was not up front at the public meeting held at the
Dunwoody property dealing with information given to the residents who attended.. He
stated that he was requesting annexation and city services from the City of Meridian,
but made no mention of request for a zone change from RUT to R-2.
P.Greiger: My name is Patricia Greiger and I also live at 1682 East Dunwoody Court. In
addition to that statement about the meeting, we wanted to continue on with some other
fallacies of the situation. At the Planning and Zoning meeting held on November 15th,
Mr. Williams more or less asked the panel to believe that there were some situations --
for instance, a home that is directly north of his at 5930, that they had city services and
were annexed to the city. They have had city services since 2005 and are still not
annexed, nor has their zoning changed and they are not part of Dunwoody Subdivision.
They are a separate little lot in between some Dunwoody property. So, they are not
under the CC&Rs of Dunwoody Sub to begin with. And., thirdly, we have no objection to
the annexation to the City of Meridian. We understand the situation that Mr. Williams
was in in order to build this home. But we are in opposition and as many of our
neighbors in the zoning change to R-2 from RUT and the main reason is -- I know there
is legalities within the city. However, approval -- if the approval were given to change
the zoning in that one house within our subdivision of only 15 homes -- 15 to 17 homes,
it would be an incremental step in the process of the approval of Mr. Williams obtaining
approval for subdividing in the future. And as Mr. Hood stated, that once a zoning
change is made, further application doesn't have to be made. However, if that -- if that
zoning is approved by the City Council, it is totally against the CC&Rs of our small little
subdivision that Mr. Williams, when he purchased the property, he agreed to the CC&Rs
of that subdivision as well as we did and the other members of our association. And so
in closing., we as the immediate next door neighbors to this property would urge you to
consider the fact that if you bought apiece -- a home on an acre and a half and paid the
additional money to have that space next to another property that was more than an
acre and a half, would you assume that the zoning would not change within less than a
year -- a little over a year and that you would consider your situation and if you were
ever to drive down our street you would see how the homes are set up and the property
was developed with that -- that idea in mind. And so we would like you to really consider
that zoning change before you vote yes on this matter and -- did you want to add
something?
Greiger: One other item.. With the approval would like -- Mr. Mockwa agreed that if it is
rezoned and annexed that he won't divide the lot any smaller than it is. We would like
that to be one of the considerations.
De Weerd: Thank you. And just a comment. He was asked to annex and be brought into
the city because he is going to receive city services. We do not have an RUT
designation. The R-2 is the .lowest designation that the city has. So, that's -- that's not
Meridian City Council
December 18, 2007
Page 66 of 87
something that was his choice, because we don't have an RUT designation, the only
other choice was the lowest and that was the R-2. So, he didn't misinform you. That was
the only choice that .really was available to you. I guess I would ask our attorney -- can
you put a condition on it that they can't subdivide? Would it have to have a development
agreement?
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, that would certainly be an unusual -- to
have this discussion at the Planning and Zoning Commission that would be a fairly
unusual condition to try to place on the property. The size of the property, the location,
the Planning and Zoning Commission when they pondered it, you have got two different
enforcement issues here that you're trying to address. One is city rules and ordinances
on whether that would be allowed. They would have to come back in another
application. They certainly would have another Public Hearing if they were to do that
and that's where the Planning and Zoning Commission -- sort of rests with their
decision. As all of you know and maybe some of the members of the Dunwoody Estates
know, the CC&R conditions are a completely separate private action. If a person buys
that property, they buy it with whatever conditions are on it at the time they purchased it.
The CC&Rs are applicable to them. That's a private action that's enforceable by the
homeowners association, not by the city. They also buy -- if they annex into the city,
they buy it with -- or they annex it in with whatever conditions the city places on them.
But it would be fairly unusual to then -- to rezone the property R-2 and., then, place
conditions on it that didn't allow them whatever uses other properties would have with
the same designations of the city. So, I couldn't tell you you can't, it certainly is not
something I'm familiar of certainly this city doing in the past with other annexation
requests. There would be opportunity of public hearings, but it is not the city's role to be
enforcing covenants that are private contracts between those -- the owners and the
property owner.
Greiger: Thank you, Madam Mayor, and Councilmen.
De Weerd: Thank you.
P.Greiger: Thank you very much. But, in addition, the president of our association, Kent
Borgman, is out of town on business this evening, so he was unable to attend., but he
did write something up and we were actually going to read it, but we heard earlier that it
could can be passed onto --
De Weerd: Yes. If you want to give it to our clerk, he will make -- he will pass it along so
we can see it. Thank you. Mr. Nary, I guess I do have a question regarding -- if it's
zoned R-2 and because you would have less than, what is it, four or six lots, you can --
do you have to go through the process or can you subdivide without going through a
public process?
Meridian City Council
December 48, 2007
Page 67 of 87
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, probably Mr. Hood can answer that
better. I don't know that you can short plat a residential parcel. So, I don't think they
could -- I don't think they intensify this use or subdivide the property without another
hearing, but maybe Mr. Hood has a better perspective.
De Weerd: That's correct, uh?
Hood: Madam Mayor. You have got it. Yes, you have to be commercially zoned to
utilize the short plat, so any residential properties -- the shortest form would be a
combined preliminary/final plat, but even that is a Public Hearing, so -- but would require
a Public Hearing for any residential zone in the city.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. I had Richard Galloway signed up indicating against.
Galloway: Yes, Madam Mayor and Members of the City Council, my name is Richard
Galloway, I live at 1714 East Dunwoody Court, which is adjacent to the Greigers,
approximately 50 feet away from that property. And I have concerns for a couple of
reasons. One of them being the way that this has all taken place. I heard a comment
earlier tonight about how the Council had not properly followed up on a contract that
was made and my question is how it is that somebody can get city services before they
go through this procedure that we are going through tonight? This should have all been
done before the house was built and before those services were provided to that lot, in
my opinion. The other question that I have that has not been dealt with is immediately to
the north of this property is a house on an acre that is not part of Dunwoody association.
That lot has also been required to have city services, has not been annexed.
Immediately to the north of that is a vacant lot of approximately an acre that is part of
Dunwoody association. Now, my question is is what -- if somebody takes all three of
those lots, now we have got three acres there that are not entirely part of the Dunwoody
association, how does this all fit into what the legalities of what can be subdivided and
what cannot. I don't understand how that works and guess that that's what we are really
concerned about as an association is the domino -- possible domino effect here of all of
a sudden we have multiple housing in an area that we did not want it and I guess if we
could all be assured that that was not going to happen, we would not be testifying here
tonight. And so I think if we could come up with an answer that would satisfy us for
those particular questions, we would be very happy to have them as neighbors and this
discussion would not even have to taken place any further. I think that's the only
comment that I have. If there is any questions for me I would be glad to ask them,
otherwise, I'll take a seat.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I just have a question for you. What assurance do you have
other neighbors in your subdivision won't do the same thing that you're speculating
these folks would do.
Meridian City Council
December 18, 2007
Page 68 of 87
Galloway: Well, it's my understanding that they cannot build on -- on those lots. How
can they subdivide their lots. Idon't -- the association was very specific about that not
being -- taking place.
Rountree: So, you have answered your question.
Galloway: But if it goes to an R-2 zone -- see, that is the question that we have had in
our minds is how does that happen. And., here again, the lot directly to the north of that
is a whole other matter. So, I don't know, we are confused and perhaps we are
confused for a reason we shouldn't be. If those fears can be put to rest, then, the matter
is taken care of. Any questions?
De Weerd: No. Thank you.
Galloway: Thank you for your time.
De Weerd: Michelle Borgman signed up against. Thank you. Toby Merriman signed up
against. I think.
Merriman: I'm sorry?
De Weerd: It is Merriman?
Merriman: It's Merriman.
De Weerd.: Okay.
Merriman: I'm Toby Merriman. 1938 Dunwoody. Madam Mayor, City Councilman. I
apologize for my naiveness. I think this is probably the second time in my life I have
actually acted like a grown up, so I apologize. This is kind of all new to me.
Rountree: Don't start now.
Merriman: And I'm a new -- I'm a new member to the Dunwoody community, I have
been there about three months and so I guess I'm just kind of a little confused on what's
going on. I got there and started getting messages from the homeowners association,
as well as from attorneys and people talking about attorneys, about this whole situation.
And I'm just kind of curious about actually what's going on and how this all -- how this all
happened. You know, being a member of the community and going into it -- and I have
read the covenants pretty well and I was under the impression to be a part of this
community they were all single family homes on large acreages, that had to have well
water. And so I guess just don't understand the process of annexation. It kind of goes
back to the gentleman before me was saying, it just kind of seems like some of this is,
you know, the cart before the horse and Iguess Ijust -- my concern is I -- you know,
Meridian City Council
December 18, 2007
Page 69 of 87
now living the dream in Idaho, got the acreage, have the opportunity to have horses and
this property, move by business to Meridian and this is where I want to be and I want to
maintain the integrity of that and to have those opportunities now that I have been able
to find this place and I just want to make sure that, you know, that's not at all
jeopardized and I guess I'm just a little bit confused as to how we all got here and, you
know, why this is even an issue.
Rountree.: Me, too.
De Weerd: Well, I'll take a stab at it, because I'm good at guessing. If I'm wrong, correct
me.
Nary: Don't worry.
De Weerd.: When Central District Health has someone that applies for a building permit
and they want to put in a septic and a well., if they are next to city services, they will not
let them. They ask that that -- they ask that those property owners hook up to city
services. One of our requirements to extending city services is to annex if you're
contiguous. The other lot probably was not yet annexed, because they are not
contiguous yet. This lot will make them contiguous and they will probably be triggered to
have to annex that lot as well, because they were granted city services. So, we don't
extend services to properties that are not annexed and if they have to, because of
extenuating circumstances, we do put in a provision to extend the services if they are
available and to have them annex when that annexation route is there. So, that's
probably why you're here tonight, because they are receiving city services.
Merriman: And how does that affect the rest of us, I guess.
Rountree: It doesn't.
De Weerd: Well, your CC&Rs are -- those are private contracts that -- it's something the
city doesn't enforce or maintain. It's something that is your subdivision's thing. This
shouldn't affect any of you. They are asking for one house on one lot and they have to
do this, because they have city services. If they want to do anything different, they will
have to come through a public process again and notification would go out to the 300
feet radius and you would start this process all over again. But that's not what they are
asking and I don't think if they put a house up there already that that would be
forthcoming. But I have been wrong before. But you would be notified if they did.
Merriman: Well, thank you for your time and explanation. I certainly appreciate it. That
clarifies it a little bit, so --
De Weerd.: Okay. Thank you.
Meridian City Council
December 18, 2007
Page 70 of 87
Nary: Sounded just like a lawyer, Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: Oh, that's really frightening. I'm sorry I sounded like an attorney. I apologize.
Okay. Darwin Porter signed up against.
Porter: Madam. Mayor, City Council members, Darwin Porter. I'm at 5780 North Locust
Grove and I am directly to the south. We have got the five acres to the south of the
property that we are talking about and I'm in opposition to the rezoning for the same
reasons that have been stated before. I have a question about the lot to the north. Is it
considered RUT or is it R-2? The one acre lot to the north of the property that we are
talking about.
De Weerd: It's probably still RUT, because it has not been annexed.
Porter: Still RUT? Because it has not been annexed. Okay.
De Weerd: That's a county designation.
Porter: Okay. So, with that in mind.., then, I guess our concern is that the domino effect,
possibly, those three lots could get together and possibly put in a smaller size
development and I would just oppose that. So, I guess I understand at this point you
can't give city services unless it's an R-2 designation, is that how it -- is that the case?
De Weerd: It's our lowest density designation.
Porter: So, how did they get city services without it being R-2?
De Weerd: They are applying -- they are applying for that.
Porter: They are applying for that, but they have city services now. How did they acquire
those without it being R-2?
De Weerd.: I'll let the attorney answer that.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, when you apply to build a building in a
county zone, Central District Health requires that you either build a septic tank or if city
services are within 300 feet, that you hook to city services.
Porter: I understand.
Nary: So, you come to the city. The engineer by ordinance has authority to grant access
to the sewer system for that purpose.
Porter: Okay.
Meridian City Council
December 48, 2007
Page 71 of 87
Nary: Central District Health tries to limit the amount of septic systems in the county.
Porter: I understand that.
Nary: So, as long as it's within 300 feet it doesn't have to be contiguous to the city. Our
requirement is is once they do have services, when they become contiguous they are
required to apply for annexation.
Porter: Okay. And so --
Nary: That's why they get the services prior to being annexed into the city --
Porter: Okay.
Nary: -- is because they either need to build the property, which is I think what the
circumstances here --
Porter: Okay.
Nary: -- or they have a failed system, which may have been the circumstances with the
other one. I don't know. But one of those two situations requires them to go to Central
District Health to ask for apermit --
Porter: Sure.
Nary: -- and if it's within 300 feet, then, they have to go to the city.
Porter: Am I incorrect in stating that this was already annexed? Has it not been
annexed?
Nary: It has not been.
Porter: It has not been. Okay. I thought it had been annexed and, then, it was now being
rezoned R-2.
Nary: No.
Porter: So, it has not been annexed.
Nary: And the term gets thrown around commonly, because when you annex it's
required by state code that we designate a zone.
Porter: I understand.
Meridian City Council
December 18, 2007
Page 72 of 87
Nary: So, because that's the lowest residential property zone we have --
Porter: Okay.
Nary: -- that's what planning chose and that's what the application is for.
Porter: It makes sense. It's a beautiful home. We hope they put horses and cows back
there, so -- thank you.
De Weerd: Well, unfortunately, they can't, because they will be in the city. Just thought I
would tell you that. You can have cats and dogs. lalso -- the last person signed up is
Carla Williams, signed up in favor. Is there anyone else that would like to provide
testimony on this application? Would the applicant like to have wrap-up remarks?
Williams: Madam Mayor, Council, Marshall Williams, 1650 Dunwoody. There has been
some confusion, I must admit. Of course, I was kind of caught in the middle here, not
knowing that it would cause so much confusion. Anyway, what I have here is a -- a plot
plan showing where the house is and as I stated before, we are advertising it for sale as
a single family residence on an acreage. Has nothing stated that it could be more than
one parcel. And, then, also, if I may -- the first page is -- it shows the home where it's
located and as you can see, trying to subdivide the lot would be almost impossible,
because of the location of the home. You would no way near get a driveway passed the
house under your requirements, anyway, to get to that back area and same way off of
Locust Grove. That's a berm going down the left-hand side there, the landscape berm of
the subdivision, which is also part of my property, but it's not like you're going to be
putting a driveway through there onto Locust Grove. ACRD wouldn't allow that. And.,
then, of course, the next page is just our listing stating it is a single home. And, then, the
fourth page is part of the covenants of Dunwoody and what it says is Section 5.17,
sewer disposal, until public sewer serves Dunwoody Subdivision, all sewage disposal
for each lot shall be a private septic tank. Well, that line right there tells me that if the
homeowners association would read this page and this article, that they would have an
idea that one day there will be public sewer to the Dunwoody Subdivision. So, what I
have done is just followed the requirements of the city to put in my sewer and water and
to get my services, annexation, through the city. Our intent was not to mislead anyone.
Maybe it was -- as I think of being annexation, that the zoning would change, possibly
those that aren't involved as much as we are on projects like this, didn't realize that
there was a zoning change, which is automatic. And I apologize to them for that
misunderstanding, if there was the concept of thinking that annexation meant that the
zoning would stay the same. Other than that, I'd like to get this behind me, be able to
have my city services and thank you for your time. Any questions?
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions? No, I don't see any. Thank you..
Meridian City Council
December t8, 2007
Page 73 of 87
Williams: All right. Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any further information needed?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I move we close the Public Hearing on AZ 07-015.
Borton: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion to close the Public Hearing on Item 14. All those in
favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor'?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I move we approve AZ 07-015, the Dunwoody property to include all staff
comments.
Borton: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to approve Item 14. Any discussion?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd.: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Would the maker of the motion include applicant's comments, too, not just staff?
Zaremba: Yes. Applicant's agreement and staff comments and further comments made.
Borton: Second agrees.
De Weerd: Thank you. Mr. Berg, will you, please, call roll.
Roil-Call: Bird, yea.; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Meridian City Council
December 18, 2007
Page 74 of 87
Item 15: Public Hearing: CPA 07-014 Request for a Comprehensive Plan Land
Use Map Amendment of 7.43 acres from Medium Density Residential to
Mixed Use -Community for Woodland Springs by Morgan Development,
Inc. - 1630 & 1720 East McMillan Road:
Item 16: Public Hearing: AZ 07-014 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 7.55
acres from RUT and R1 to a C-C zone for Woodland Springs by Morgan
Development -Northeast Corner of McMillan Road and Locust Grove
Road:
Item 17: Public Hearing: PP 07-019 Request for Preliminary Plat approval for 4
commercial lots on 7.55 acres in a proposed C-C zoning district for
Woodland Springs by Morgan Development -Northeast Corner of
McMillan Road and Locust Grove Road:
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Item 15, 16, and 17 our public hearings on CPA 07-014,
AZ 07-014 and PP 07-019. I will open these public hearings with staff comments.
Hood: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. We are moving down Locust
Grove a little bit further to the south. We are now on the northeast intersection of
McMillan and Locust Grove. The subject site is seven and a half acres. This property is
currently zoned RUT and R-1 in Ada county and currently it's designated for medium
density residential land use in the future land use map of the Comprehensive Plan. The
adjacent land uses include a single family residence zoned RUT in Ada county. To the
south is an Idaho Power substation and McMillan Road. To the east are future single
family homes in the Portico Place Subdivision. That was approved at the zoning
designation of R-8. And to the west are single family homes zoned RUT in Ada county.
You may recall in late 2006 an annexation application was submitted for 2.4 acres of the
subject seven and a half acre property. That annexation application requested L-O
zoning. The City Council denied that application on February 13th of 2007. And that
application included just this 2.4 acre parcel right on the corner. Since that time the
applicant has acquired the approximately five acres surrounding that previous
application and is bringing the whole thing before the Council tonight. The applicant has
submitted a conceptual site plan how the site may be developed with a convenience
store, gas station, amedical-dental-professional office building and amulti-tenant
commercial building. I guess I should back up and note that the applicant is requesting.,
similar to the other two applications that had Comp Plan amendments tonight, a change
to the map designation from medium density to mixed use community and also an
annexation of 7.55 acres to C-C and a preliminary plat for four commercial lots. On this
submitted conceptual plan, the applicant has depicted one full access driveway to
Locust Grove Road.. It's right here. And no access to McMillan. What the applicant is
proposing to do is at Portico Place Subdivision, that I mentioned earlier that was zoned
R-8, is directly at the east property boundary, so what this applicant will be required to
do is finish off that portion of Beethoven Street that lies on their property, finish off that
Meridian City Council
December 18, 2007
Page 75 of 87
street section, and, then, take another driveway access off of Beethoven. The applicant
is proposing to landscape approximately 25 percent of the site. There are 25 foot wide
buffers along Locust Grove and a 35 foot wide landscape buffer required along
McMillan.. Further there are land use buffer requirements. Again, there are single family
homes that are existing in the county or proposed in Portico Place and depending on
the zone., either a 20 or 25 foot wide land use buffer will be required. As I mentioned
earlier, the applicant requested C-C zoning and community commercial designation on
the future land use map. In staffs analysis of this report, we thought it would be in the
best interest of the city and the surrounding properties to actually designate this
property to neighborhood commercial and zone the site to C-N, which we talked about
earlier tonight. It's a little bit more neighborhood friendly. Does call for the buildings to
be smaller in size without having -- or -- and requiring design review and you still get the
nice land use buffers to nonresidential uses. So, that is a change from the original
applicant's request when they submitted their application. They are in agreement with
the revised zoning proposed by staff and the Planning and Zoning Commission. I do
want to run through quickly -- I know you guys have executive session next, but I do
quickly want to run through some of the development agreements that staff is proposing
and that the Commission also agreed to. One of those is to provide a truss structure, a
picnic table, and landscaping within a plaza area near the center of the development.
Now, the exact details of this will be determined at a later time when this Lot 2 comes in
and I'll touch on that here in just a second, too. But they do have this nice plaza, open
space area shown in the middle of their commercial development. This is a little trellis
resting area with a couple benches that are shown in the center of that. Again, the
design will be worked out, but it does need to be consistent with this concept plan
showing that trellis structure in the middle of the development. I think the site plan does
a little bit better job of showing access to that, too, and how it really is in the center of
this project. You can see there are pedestrian walkways tying sidewalks on McMillan, to
and through, up and out to Locust Grove in front of the buildings, even out to Beethoven
and the residential subdivision. They have done a really good job with -- with making
this site very pedestrian friendly, with some stamped or scored concrete and some other
things that will kind of designate some of those pedestrian ways, too, so I did want to
call that out. They also have little benches -- excuse me -- a little bench area in front of
this office building -- professional office building and in staffs report we did limit the
hours of operation for these two buildings specifically, because they are so close to the
residents, to be from 6:00 to 11:00 -- 6:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. And that restriction
includes the deliveries and trash compacting and, then, I told you I'd get back to this.
They are proposing a C-Store with some fuel stations here. That is not a principally
permitted use in the C-N zone. That will require a future Conditional Use Permit. At that
time we will further evaluate if this is an appropriate location for this use. What that
building should look like and if the hours of operation need to be limited and to what
hours they are. So, right now they can build professional offices and retail and things
like that, but this use is not approved with the subject application and would require
another Conditional Use Permit. All other permitted and accessory uses in the C-N zone
are condition -- are principally permitted, so no further public hearings. And., then, all
Meridian City Council
December 18, 2007
Page 76 of 87
buildings in the development are subject to the administrative design review process
stated it the UDC. We want them to construct the pedestrian walkways and paths
shown and all the buildings need to substantially comply with the submitted elevations. I
do have some elevations I believe in here that I can show you as well. Here are -- this
one, I believe, is the L-shaped building that we looked at just real quick. This is the
same building., I believe, and they showed a couple different variations of what those
buildings may look like. Some of the materials on the buildings include cultured stone,
faux timbers and beams, stucco and stucco accents, and metal standing seam roofing.
The applicant did also submit a picture of an existing Maverick store. I have left that out
of the presentation, just because, again, that wouldn't be principally permitted in the
zone. I can let you know, though, that that Maverick did have a metal roof. The colors, if
I recall correctly, the roof I think was red, actually. And we weren't -- I wasn't overly
excited about the color scheme that they had going on, but it was a fairly nice building.
But I have let that -- that slide out, again, because that really isn't on the table. So, the
elevations are really geared more towards the L-shape building and the other smaller --
about 4,500 square foot building located further to the south. The Commission did
recommend approval at their November 1st, 2007, Public Hearing. Testifying in favor of
the project was Todd Meyers, Matt Morgan., Don Lillyquist and Doug and Clyde
Brennegar signed up for, but they didn't testify. There was no opposition to the project
and the only written testimony that I have received on this project is from the applicant,
the applicant's representative. In fact, that's -- well, in my presentation is with the most
recent correspondence that they had with the applicant -- let me back up for a second.
The Planning and Zoning Commission did -- one of the changes they made was they
did require an eight foot tall vinyl fence around the perimeter of the site and the
perimeter was defined as abutting the residential, essentially, not along the arterial
streets. That was a change. The applicant is now requesting that that cannot be
amended to reflect a six foot tall fence, rather an eight foot tall fence. And staff also will
clean up condition 7.3 in Exhibit D, which is ACHD's conditions. They have a new dollar
amount required for the road trust for the McMillan Road sidewalk. It's going to change
from 11,000 -- or a firm 15.,650 to 11,375. So, staff will make that change in the staff
report and will leave the fencing discussion up to the applicant and Council and any
other public that may want to testify on that. With that I will stand for any questions you
may have.
De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none, Mayor.
De Weerd: Okay. Does the applicant want to make comment?
Meyers: Thank you. Todd Meyers. 645 Hickory Lane, Idaho Falls. I am with Morgan
Construction and, first of all, I'd like to thank you for staying up late and hearing this
tonight. We appreciate that. If we could go back to the aerial photo. As mentioned
earlier, this project originally came with the corner piece that was there and went
Meridian City Council
December 18, 2007
Page 77 of 87
through Planning Commission with quite a bit of debate, was my understanding and,
then, went to City Council and was denied. And that's about the time, then, that I get
hired and so I have to go back through the city records and try to figure out exactly why
did it get denied. Before this -- taking this job I had a very similar job to Caleb, except for
the city of Idaho Falls, and so I was able to look at it more as a city planning issue and
try to understand what took place. And as I looked at it, first of all, you have this piece
right here that reaches down -- it is just to the east of the original site. Immediately east
of that is a street called Beethoven. Well, that kind of creates a weird piece of land that
the city is going to have to deal with in the future. Also, with the size of it, it had some
problems with how do you meet the requirements for access? Are you going to have to
amend the standard requirements for the highway district and, then, also landscaping.
McMillan is an entryway corridor street. With that there is 35 feet of landscaping and so
you start throwing on some of these different requirements and, basically, I don't believe
the project -- the size of that property was large enough. About that same time Morgan
Development had a neighborhood meeting, because they were going to make
resubmittal and the woman that owned the kind of L-shaped property showed up to that
neighborhood meeting and in the past my understanding is always kind of chased them
off. Do not talk to me. I don't want to hear it. She had changed her mind and she came
to the neighborhood meeting wanting to talk about her property being purchased.. And
so I think it all worked out well and I do feel that this new project probably now is in the
best interest of the city and before I'd have to acknowledge that I don't think it was. If we
could go onto the landscape plan. I have a few things I want to talk about. First of all,
the site. The site is the corner of two arterial streets, McMillan being the corridor
gateway street into the city and Locust Grove, of course, now connects over the
interstate. Because of this we feel that there is going to be additional traffic and this is a
very visible property and we think that it has some good value, not only to commuters,
but also to residents in the area to provide neighborhood services. As Caleb said, the
request was originally C-C and that's what we had talked about in our original meeting
with the planning department, but after making the application they did call us and said
that they did not feel comfortable with that. When you look at the type of uses that are
allowed in the C- zone -- and this is going to be right next to residential. Our property
doesn't include those uses, so why have the possibility of those uses. You know,
whether it be redevelopment or whatever takes place. And so the restricted use is, I feel
is very appropriate for this area. Along with that, there are some additional
requirements, such as with the size of our buildings we are going to have to go through
a design review. Again, we are right next to residential. That's pretty appropriate for us
to have that. The convenience store, we have -- had lots of discussions with Maverick.
They were going -- they, of course, were very happy with a C-C, because that doesn't
require a Conditional Use Permit. Well, they are happy now -- I mean they understand
that this is what it' going to take in order to make this a good win-win for both. the city
and also the developer. Some of the -- we had numerous meetings with the planning
staff and a-mails and so forth going back and forth and they have done a super job of
communicating to us, basically, the city's Comprehensive Plan. And one of the things
we did point out is that this property on the west side of Locust Grove and on the south
Meridian City Council
December 18, 2007
Page 78 of 87
side of McMillan there is a planned pathway that would go through and so it's very
appropriate, then, for us to access going through our property. And so they did a great
job on giving us some tips on that. There is -- and it's mentioned in the staff report this
access here -- really love that pedestrian access coming in off McMillan. As a matter of
fact, an earlier plan we had aright-in, right-out right here, which we are hoping would
limit how much access would go over to Beethoven. And at that point this corner here,
Lots 3 and 4, was designed differently. When the project went to the Ada County
Highway District, even though that right-in, right-out met the 220 foot requirement and it
also kept Beethoven in compliance, because it's just a little over 500, that access was
denied and I think a lot of it comes down to is they haven't designed that street and
when that canal gets moved from the south side to the north side, they don't know if that
canal is going to be covered or un -- however that's going to end up being. And so if it's
uncovered, that would cause quite an additional cost for a bridge to go through there.
We offered to pay for it, they said no. And so in the staff report it does mention that if
that is left open, that this access we would need to move it and most likely where we
would put that is just going right off the edge of the sidewalk above Lot No. 2 the
Maverick site.. As you look at our pedestrian pathways, what we have tried to use is
those landscape islands as much as possible. We think, first of all, it's easier for
vehicles to identify where those pedestrian pathways are going to be, because there will
be landscape there, but also those landscape islands will have curb and gutter, which
means they will be about six inches up higher than if it just was normal pavement going
through there and so, hopefully, that will help pedestrians. And, then, we have kind of
brought them in, as Caleb I believe mentioned right here, Lot No. 4 just right off their
front door, we do have two benches. Morgan Development, our bread and butter is
medical dental buildings. I think we are going to do somewhere between 15 and 20 of
them this year alone in southern Idaho and we do have a dentist that is looking quite a
bit at that lot number four and just it just made sense to us, so let's go ahead and kind of
open their lobby up outside and let them be able to sit out on those benches, but also
when you come in from Beethoven, I mean we have just kind of angled that sidewalk
coming right on in there. So, we feel that's pretty good benefit there. Landscaping, if you
-- if you go off the city ordinances for the buffer requirement, we would be required to
have 34 trees. However, we have some trees and you can see on this landscape plan
there is three right in that L-shaped building, there is one or two -- let's see, it looks like
two down on the convenience store site. Those have 24 inch calipers, which means we
have got to replace a lot of trees. And so that puts it up to about 86 trees. And so as you
look at the site, you can see there is lots and lots of trees and where I want to go into
that is it's back to the fence issue. I was asked to enter into the public record at Planning
Commission whether or not we would put up a fence and I said yes. It was about 12:30
at night and I said an eight foot fence. Didn't realize it until after I had sat down and the
Planning Commission said, hey, you have committed, that's where it is. And I have
every intention to live up to that. However, I have been calling around and at this point
have not found anybody that provides either a wood or a vinyl fence that is eight foot.
And some of the reason why is wind loads. The wind can just blow those things apart.
What I would ask that we would do is that we would take maybe some of these trees,
Meridian City Council
December t8, 2007
Page 79 of 87
work with the city forester to figure out how many trees we could put along the north and
east side, but not so many that our trees end up being overgrown and -- I want them
healthy trees back there. But I'm sure the city forester can help us with that. The reason
I noted four of them on here, I'm hoping that I could talk you into reducing that fence
size. First of all, as I mentioned., we are going to reduce that zone, so it is uses in the
Comprehensive Plan, you know, the N-C --the zone that you put next to residential and,
of course, we are agreed to that and more than supportive. You also have -- the hours
of operation have been limited in the development agreement. My understanding is that
that's probably something that's going to be added to this N-C zone in the future anyway
and so it just keeps in line with that future zone and that we are more supportive of that.
The other thing that we have done is that we have taken this building and we have lined
it up so that I -- I feel the building does a pretty good job of shielding the residential from
the noise and lights that happen within the parking lot. You have your doors that would
be mainly on this with the -- facing into this development and also, you know, it's this
street -- traffic continues, you're going to have the noise and headlights of cars. And
think, again, our buildings do a pretty good job of buffering that. Just wanted to -- just
out of time there.
Borton: Keep going.
Meyers: Can I go?
De Weerd: Yes. I'll tell you.
Meyers: Okay. Phase one would be Lot No. 2, the convenience store and that will be
sold off --
De Weerd: You are now out of time. If you would just wrap up.
Meyers: Wrap up? Phase one and two, the office buildings and the convenience stores
would be -- would be built at the same time and the office could also have some limited
retail and that would include the access off of Beethoven and up towards Locust Grove.
In the staff -- staff asked that we also include an access easement to make sure that
each of these properties will have access and as you come in this private drive, this will
be shown on the plat, it will go up the lot line that separates two and three and just north
of two out to Locust Grove will all be shown as an access easement. So, each lot will
have two accesses, so they can get out to both streets.
De Weerd: Okay.
Meyer: And I think that's everything.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Council, any questions?
Meridian City Council
December 1'8, 2007
Page 80 of 87
Bird.: I have none.
De Weerd: None? Okay
Rountree: Madam Mayor, a question, suggestion, comment. You have quite a forest
that you're proposing and you do have a bunch of trees. I'm wondering have you
considered the possibility of putting some trees randomly in some of the planning boxes
that you have in the parking lot?
Meyer: Yes. Yes. Each of these landscape islands will definitely have trees. You can
see there is a big one here and also some out in front of those buildings.
Rountree: Okay.
De Weerd: You know, just as an FYI, we have found an eight foot tall vinyl fence.
Meyer: Can I get the company from the staff, then?
De Weerd: You can get it from Robert in the back.
Meyer: Oh, good..
De Weerd: We are now experts at vinyl eight foot high fences. So, that was just an FYI..
I have no questions. Any other comments, questions? Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor, I just had a comment. How fortunate you are that the property
owner of the L-shaped piece of property came to you. When this came before us earlier
or when I was on the Planning and Zoning Commission, it came before us before it
came to Council. The applicant at that time, for only the smaller piece, made it very
clear that the homeowner was almost violent about chasing people off her property and
not wanting to sell. You're very fortunate that that attitude changed. I think this is a much
better project than the little piece could have done. Much better accesses for certain.
Meyer: And all of the access -- I mean all of our discussions with her were limited to her
attorney. She still wanted her attorney only to chat with us.
Zaremba: Okay.
De Weerd.: Okay. If there is nothing further -- thank you. I did have one other person
signed up and it's Corey Stanfield signed up against. Is that you. No?
Zaremba: Gave up.
De Weerd: I know you're Gary. Okay.
Meridian City Council
December 18, 2007
Page 81 of 87
Zaremba: Does anybody anticipate having any questions for ACHD? Can he go home?
De Weerd: You're excused, Gary.
Zaremba; Thank you for hanging in there.
De Weerd: Is there any further testimony on this application? Any additional comment?
Okay. Council, any further information needed?
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I don't need any additional information. Depending on how we
go with this, if it is approved, I would want signs immediately put on that particular
property out there that that's, in fact, what it is and what's going to be there, potentially,
and I'd also like stipulations that there wouldn't be a car wash in there.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: If we take the staff recommendation that this be zoned to C-N, instead of
C-C, would that preclude the car wash?
Bird: You'd have to go with a CUP.
Rountree: Caleb's on top of that. He'll tell us.
De Weerd: I think even a car wash requires a CUP, doesn't it?
Bird: Yeah.
Hood: Correct, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. In the C-N zone a vehicle
washing facility requires a Conditional Use Permit, but you could -- if there is a
development agreement you could cut that off before they even apply for the CUP and
just say it's not allowed, so -- if you so choose.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor, I would pose it as a question. Are we in favor of the C-N
designation? I am.
Rountree: Given the location I think it fits with the power station across the way and a
major intersection. So, are we going to close the hearing and let David make a motion
or --
Bird.: Madam Mayor?
Meridian City Council
December 18, 2007
Page 82 of 87
De Weerd'.: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we close the Public Hearing on CPA 07-014, AZ 07-014 --
Zaremba: Second.
Bird: -- and PP 07-019.
Rountree: Second..
Zaremba: Second..
Borton: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and asecond -- are we all getting rummy? -- to close
the Public Hearing in Items 15, 16 and 17. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion
carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor, actually, I did have a question for staff. Somewhere in the
staff report it mentioned that -- I don't know how to put this. This may not be the plat the
way the Planning and Zoning Commission saw it, but there has been a revision to it and
my question would be -- I couldn't find the date for the amended plat that I would like to
reference as I make the motion.
Rountree: You can't read that on there?
Bird: I can't either, David. I was looking at that. I couldn't find it on my computer.
Hood,: Madam Mayor, Commissioner Zaremba, the date that I have on this one is
8/19/07. So, August 19th, '07. Let me see if I have a revised --
Bird: I was going to say, is there a revised note?
Hood: -- date on here. I'm not seeing it anywhere. That very well may be the same date
that was put on the original one that was submitted, too, so typically, you know, the
professional will update that date. I don't know that that's the case here. Let me just
check the original and see what date. Okay. That one's dated 8/19 as well.
Meridian City Council
December 1'8, 2007
Page 83 of 87
Zaremba: I may have an answer to that. If you would tell Mr. Hood. Unfortunately, we
have closed the hearing., so you can't tell us, but if you'd tell Mr. Hood he can tell us.
Details.
Hood: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the date's the same on both of them, the
old and the new. We can tell you what the changes were. The changes were the right of
way requirement change from ACHD along McMillan and, then, as the applicant
mentioned in their testimony, the buildings on Lots 3 and 4 kind of moved up a little bit
based on that driveway going away. Unfortunately, though, the only way to reference it
is the 8/19 date. There is nothing on these that separate anywhere to tell the difference
between the two, other than those things.
Zaremba: Okay.
Bird.: Madam Mayor, follow up on that. I mean how would you have a revised deal with
the same date?
Hood.: Madam Mayor, Councilmember Bird, I don't know -- you probably can't see it
from there. This is how I do it, I put on there revised and old on this one. So, basically,
do not use., old, and, then, I -- but that's -- like I said, typically, the engineer or whoever
is preparing this will put a revised date on here, some way to call this out that this is
different from that or --
Bird: You can write that, but what is the engineer going to say if it goes to court?
Hood: Well, I can show a plat that has that date, too, what the city's --
Rountree: It's on the plat, if it's revised..
Zaremba: Mr. Hood., is there a stamped received by the clerk date on there by any
chance?
Hood.: Not on my copy. This was submitted directly to our office. Let's see if our office
stamped it.
Bird: You surely stamp it.
Hood.: Yeah, our office should -- in this case this one didn't get stamped. But the clerk's
office would have that same chronological order, too, whatever, was submitted with the
application will have a received date from the clerk and, then, when the revised comes it
will have a later date it was received, so you can tell it's -- if it's not the exact same plat,
it was received later on in the process. Not an ideal situation, not typical, but we can tell
the difference anyways.
Meridian City Council
December 18, 2007
Page 84 of 87
Zaremba: I'll make it up when I get there. Did we discuss the six or eight foot fence? Do
we -- I, actually, thought our ordinances specified six foot fences and didn't allow eight
foot fences.
Bird: As many trees as you have got going around there, six foot will be fine. You won't
see the fence anyway.
De Weerd: It can be allowed..
Zaremba: What's the Council's preference?
Bird: Six foot is fine with me.
Rountree: Make a motion.
Bird: Make the motion.
Zaremba: Okay. I'm just trying to get the details in. All right. In that case -- Madam
Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Zaremba: I move that we approve CPA 07-014, request for a Comprehensive Plan land
use amendment -- map amendment of 7.43 acres from medium density residential to
mixed use neighborhood for Woodland Springs. That's a change from community to
neighborhood.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second on Item 15. Any discussion? Hearing
none, Mr. Berg.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRfED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Okay. Item 16.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor, I move that we approve AZ 07-014 to include all staff
comments and including the changed designated by staff that this be a C-N zone. I'm
sorry, was there a development agreement attached to that for the hours or --
De Weerd: Yes.
Meridian City Council
December 18, 2007
Page 85 of 87
Borton: Yes. And use.
Zaremba: And that among the items included in the development agreement, as per the
staff, that the hours be limited to 6:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. And that the fence -- the
perimeter fence be allowed to be a six foot fence. And I believe that's the end of the AZ
motion.
Bird.: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second on Item 16 to approve with the
conditions. Any additional comment?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Would the maker of the motion add to the development agreement that no
car wash would be permitted?
Zaremba: That is an excellent idea. Yes, I would add that to the motion.
Bird: Second would agree.
De Weerd: Okay.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Is that -- is the intent astand-alone car wash or accessory to a service station or
either?
Rountree: Either way.
Borton: Okay.
Zaremba: In discussion., the C-N zone and the hours that we have don't preclude them
doing a Conditional Use Permit for the Maverick; right?
Rountree: No.
Bird: No.
Meridian City Council
December 1'8, 2007
Page 86 of 87
Zaremba: They would be able to do that, but it would require a conditional use. Okay.
All right. Then, the motion stands.
De Weerd.: Okay. No further discussion, Mr. Berg, will you call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird., yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea.; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd.: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I move that we approve PP 07-019 for Woodland Springs and refer to the
latest version of the plat received by the clerk October 26, 2007.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd': Okay. I have a motion and a second. If there is no discussion, Mr. Berg, will
you, please, call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 18: Executive Session per Idaho State Code 67-2345(1)(a) - (to consider
hiring a public officer, employee, staff member or individual agent, not to
include. This paragraph does not apply to filling a vacancy in an elective
office):
De Weerd.: Okay. Council, we have an Executive Session for five minutes.
Bird:: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we go into Executive Session as per Idaho State Code 67-2345(1)(a).
Gorton: Second.
Rountree.: Five minutes.
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Berg, will you, please, call roll.
Meridian City Council
December 18, 2007
Page 87 of 87
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
EXECUTIVE SESSION:
Borton; I move we come out of Executive Session.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: All those in favor say aye.
ALL AYES. MOTION CARRIED.
De Weerd: A motion to adjourn?
Borton: So moved,.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd.: All those in favor.
ALL AYES. MOTION CARRIED.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 12:15 P.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
APPROVED:
MAYOR TAM ~ De WEERD
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