HomeMy WebLinkAbout2007 10-23 PreMeridian City Pre-Council Meeting ,_. ~ctob~r 23, 2001
The Meridian City Pre-Council meeting was called to order at 5:32 P.M. on
Tuesday, October 23, 2001 byVice-President Councilman Charlie Rountree.
Members Present: Keith Bird, David Zaremba and Charlie Rountree.
Members Absent; Joe Borton, Mayor De Weerd arrived at 5:50 p.m.}
Staff Present: Bill Nary, John Overton, Matt Ellsworth, Anna Canning, Pete
Friedman and 111Ji11 Berg.
Item 1. Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
X David Zaremba ~ Joe Borton
X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
Mayor Tammy de Weerd ~~~~~~~ at ~:~a ~.m.~
Item 2. Adoption of the Agenda:
Bird: Mr. Vice-President.
Rountree: her. Bird.
Bird: I move we adopt the agenda as published.
Zaremba: Second.
Rountree: All those in favor.
THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT. 1~4T14N CARRIED.
Item 3. Discussion of Five Year Work Plan for recommendation on
projects for inclusion in the FYWP.
Rountree: Matt you are going to lead us into that. So it is yours.
Ellsworth: Thank you mister acting President, acting Mayor and Members of the
Council. ACRD is in the process of updating a five year work program again and
coming into this year's update - as they usually do they requested that the cities
prepare a prioritized list of project requests for their use in factoring along with
their technical criteria to determine what projects to prioritize in the update. In
addition at the same time right now COMPASS is requesting city's to prioritize a
list of corridors that were included in Communities in hllotion and that is to
~1leridian City Pre-Council Meeting
October 23, 2001
Page 2 of 23
determine the use of future STPTMA dollars. So there are two lists of roadway
projects that I am bringing to you for your consideration this evening. Diving into
the five year work plan -- based on the current funding situation, ACHD has
requested that cities only include the projects that they submitted last year; to
take another look at those and to reprioritize those if cities feel that that is
appropriate. Moving forward right now, ACHD has also determined that the best
course of action is to adhere to the prioritization process that they used in years
past. There was some question earlier on about involving the proposed
inaudible} alliance and the ACHD Commission had apre-commission workshop
meeting about that. Several weeks ago they decided that because that alliance
is still in very much an infant phase, trying to bring that together and get
everybody on the same page to weigh in on this process was unrealistic within
the time constraints that ACHD has to operate. So again this is the same list that
the Transportation Task Force has forwarded to the Council for consideration in
the past. There weren't too many major changes from last year's list that was
forwarded from the Task Force to the Council, but again ACHD will receive these
lists and factor those into their technical criteria in determining what projects fall
where in the 2009-013 Five Year Work Plan. As far as list number one is
concerned, as you can see in the color coded spreadsheet that is in your packet ~~'
there, project number one is the Ten tlllile Interchange; project number two is the
split corridor; project number three is Ten Mile Road, Franklin to Ustick; number
four Fr' ~nklin Road, Linder to Black Cat; number five Linder Ustick intersection
and number six in the Rlieridian Interchange rebuild and so on and so forth. If it is
okay with the Council, I would like to approach these one at a time and we can
dive into any discussion about the Five Year Work Plan list that was forwarded
from the Transportation Task Force, if the Council feels that that is an
appropriate way to move forward.
Rountree: Council's pleasure?
Bird: That is fine with me.
Zaremba: Do you have a way to display them? Do you have a hard copy that
could be projected?
Ellsworth: Members of the Council, I did not bring a digital version. I only have
these hard copies. If anybody has any specific questions or if Council would like
forme to continue reading through the list, I can certainly do so. Would you like
forme to --?
Zaremba: No that is fine. I just thought that it would be convenient for people to
see it.
Rountree: Go ahead h~att and Anna will project it as we run through.
Meridian City Pre-Council hlfeeting
October 23, 2001
Page 3 of 23
Ellsworth: That sounds good. ~n any event, the color coding here -the projects
in green are projects on State Highway system; the projects in the red are ACHD
roadway projects; the projects in yellow are ACHD intersections projects. The
way that ACRD is going to take the list into consideration is by giving each cities
number one request ten points, which will go into like I said the more technical
criteria that they use. The city's second priorities received eight points; third
priorities received six points and so forth for the top five requests from each city.
So the very important ones for Council to consider are the top five roadway and
the top five intersection projects. Those are the ones where the points will be
allocated. This year in addition to weighing into the Five Year Work Plan process
there is a good chance that ACHD is going to look to these lists in making
budgeting decisions; as you know ACHD's budget for FY09 is approximately $1fi
million short. The bottom line is that a lot of the projects that are currently slated
for construction in 2009 are going to have shift around and potentially fall out into
2010. ACHD will likely use these lists for consideration in that process as well.
Zaremba: I~r. Chairman.
Rountree: While they are arranging this I would just comment that I serve an the
Transportation Task Force and what you are seeing is the recommendation that
the Task Force is making to the Council for recommending onto ACRD and ITD;
what Matt is presenting is the Transportation Task Force, which I have seen
before and have already agreed to this order. ~~
Ellsworth: Members of the Council in addition another discussion that we had at
a Task Force meeting and this is a subcomponent of this first list. They wanted
some recognition from the city of the fact that the list that will be forwarded on is
not a wish list of projects that would be nice if those could be programmed into
the Five Year Work Plan. These are really -this is just a prioritization of the
absolute most essential needs. For that reason, I drafted a letter for Council's
consideration to forward along with the final prioritized list and that is in your
packet there as well. It should be right after the spreadsheet. The paragraph in
that letter is the third one, which is "with ACHD's budget stretching increasingly
thin due to construction costs over runs, this year's request list is an identification
of the greatest existing needs as perceived by the city. Every project on the list
is important, so please do not construe low ranking as an indication of non-
priority by the city". So that one paragraph there is the main reason that
thought it was appropriate to draft a letter to submit to ACRD along with this
prioritized fist.
Rountree: Very good.
Zaremba: 1111r. Vice-President.
Rountree: Mr. Zaremba.
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
October 23, 2001
Page 4 of 23
Zaremba: I would ask whether we would want to make an even stronger
statement. I personally consider all of these current deficiencies. They are not a
wish list. To me, the already are deficiencies -Matt often says the right thing,
but i am wondering whether we might want to offer something even stronger?
Just a question.
Rountree: Comments? hllatt I assume you will provide us that letter in draft form
for signature? Mlle have got it in our packet, I see. Yeah, I don't need it in draft
form.
Ellsworth: On looking forward on this, ACHD requested the city submit requests
by the 26th of this month. That will allow them enough time then to pre are draft
p
plans, go through the typical ~inaudible~ process that they have in past years as
far as issuing drafts allowing public comment and so forth. I will be back to
provide updates as that process moves forward and the target date for adoption
is early next year; I believe January is what ACHD is shooting for. That is how
things are anticipated to unfold from here.
Bird: Mr. Vice-President.
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I think this letter to me is sufficient. There are a lot of things that we can't
foresee on their next year's budgets. Some might have to be dropped next year
if their budget comes in as short as it did this year, you know, unless things turn
around with the economy, I can see that happening again for another year or so.
But, I think this letter states the facts of what the Task Force and this City
Councilman would like to set forth to ACHD and COMPASS.
Rountree: Mr. Zaremba?
Zaremba: I can support that happily.
Rountree: I am fine given our previous position and previous position and
previous letter to ACHD about where we stand with prioritization and project
selection, so I think this is firm enough and to the point and we will go with it and
see what happens this year with the funding aspect. Any comments about the
priority ranking itself?
Bird: I like it.
Rountree: Everybody is comfortable with that - I am not sure what the hllayor's
position is, but I suspect she will tell us,
Ellsworth: Okay, thank you Members of the Council. ~4oving onto the second list
for consideration. Like I said this list is being circulated by COMPASS and they
hrleridian City Pre-Council Meeting
October 23, 2001
Page 5 of 23
are soliciting cities' input as to the top priorities. The use of this list will be to
direct COMPASS Board in determining how to spend future STPT~IA dollars.
That source of federal funds equates to approximately $5 to $6 million annually
into northern Ada County -federal dollars distributed to areas based on
population and C~t~IPASS recently adjusted their prioritization process for the
use of these funds and what they are doing is shifting more of those dollars to
specific corridor improvements and so what they did is took a look at the different
corridors that were included in Communities in Motion. They handed those over
to the cities and asked that the cities rank those in priority order and so this is
taking a look at it a little bit more from the regional perspective; the
Transportation Task Force also considered this list in the discussion a couple of
changes that are noted in your packet there. The number one priority for the
Task Force of Meridian Road from Waltman to Chinden -the northern terminus
of that project is outlined in Communities in Motion is Ustick Road. The Task
Force felt that Chinden Boulevard is a more appropriate terminus for that project
and to adjust it such that the plan is forfive lanes on the northern segment of that
from Fairview up to Chinden Boulevard. In addition on that number one priority,
the Task Force felt that it was important that the city convey to COMPASS that
that project is not appropriate for the use of federal funds; that project
encompasses phase two of the split corridor, which is already being worked
through ACHD's process. We know that there are some additional requirements
that come along with federal funding and the Task Force felt that it was
appropriate to bypass those if at all possible. The second project priority that the
Task Force identified is Ten nllile from Lake Hazel to Chinden followed by US
Zo126 from Exit 29 to Eagle and then you can see there are several others that
were prioritized there. At the Transportation Task Force meeting COMPASS
staff attended and indicated, well two things; on the one hand that most other
communities really aren't looking past their top three priorities as far as
forwarding these back along to COMPASS and number two and the reason for
number one is again the fact that it is $5 to $6 million and when we are talking
about corridor level projects, just constructing one of these is going to take
several years of working its way through. I would ask in particular the Council
consider those top three projects and I would open it up to you for any questions
that you have or suggestions about the list.
Rountree: Council any comments on those three?
Bird: I have none.
Zaremba: I would comment again that I was on the Task Force that is
recommending this to the City Council. This isn't exactly the list that I started
with, but after discussion of the Transportation Task Force it seems to be the
best choice and the comments that Matt has made modifying different elements
of it are good comments. I am appreciative that corridors and the larger picture
are being considered. Often ACHD asks us to consider mile segments or half
mile segments and I am thrilled that the community is now looking at full
~1leridian City Pre-Council Meeting
October 23, ZOOl
Page 6 of 23
corridors. I think this is an excellent idea. I have already bought off on the list as
you see it.
Rountree: My only question would be on the third project. It seems to me that
there are some other projects that are under ACHD's total control that might
benefit with more roadway sooner than 20126, even though that certainly is a
significant corridor and we all want to do amazing things with, but I am not sure
how that is going to happen. There are some other things being talked about in
terms of ways to finance that as well. i am out voted at this point on the list, but
would certainly entertain some more discussion and thought on the third project.
~lnaudible discussion
Rountree: Thank you Mr, Bird. I was just going to announce that the Mayor has
arrived and here with us for the rest of the evening, I hope. Cllr. Zaremba?
Zaremba: ~Illr. Vice-President, I would just ask that since I am open minded, what
order would you suggest?
Rountree: Not that I would want to upset our neighbors to the east, but I would
put Ustick as number three.
Zaremba: i am pretty sure that I did on my original list, so inaudible--~.
Rountree: For Gary's benefit, I wil! say that last weekend I had the opporkunity to
drive Overland from Vista to where it is being realigned and thank you very
much. We get four or five more of those and maybe we can see some reduction
of traffic on some of the north south routes. But, anyway, that is great. What a
treat.
Zaremba: Mr. Vice~President you have identified my issue. I ranked Ustick
much higher as well, but went along with the rest of the group. So I am open to
opinions.
De Weerd: Mr. Vice-President.
Rountree: Madame Mayor.
De Weerd: I guess I will be the one that disagrees.
Rountree: No, I am the ane disagreeing, so go right ahead.
De Weerd: 20126 is one of those regional projects that have been underway for
what a couple of years we have been doing the corridor planning for it? I think
we finally agreed to something this last meeting and I guess in terms of the
regional significance, however, Ustick does, but if you look to the east side there
Meridian City Pre-Council K+4eeting
October 23, 2001
Page 7 of 23
has been improvements to Eagle. It is the kind of corridor that we could
advocate that is east west that is the closest one that would have a connection
so that you would have that full flow of traffic. So I guess that is why it was one
of those improvements that I thought of and frankly the traffic that would travel it
then would find Ustick and would be traveling through our city just to get to the
next one. Chinden is a better corridor to do that and right now I-84 as you have
pointed out Mr. Vice-President is the only functional east west corridor and it is
not real functional right now. We need a functional one. Our neighbors all are
committed to it as well -Highway Districts, I mean everyone seems to be on the
same page that this one because of that collaborative approach and that
everyone seems to be in agreement would be --would fit right there.
Rountree: Madame Mayor I don't disagree with what you said. The problem I
have is the agreement is on the ultimate, not what is going to happen with the
transition. I think there is still some confusion on the part of the folks in the
Nampa, Caldwell area of what it is going to look like on an interim basis. 1Ne
have heard and Board Member McClure is trying to stay awake in the back of the
room, but I suspect that he would confirm that there is na money at the state
level and it seems to me those federal funds come into the region might yield
more miles of laying on the local system as opposed to the state system in some
time unless there is an opportunity to see some state match for that as well. I
just point that out. 1Ne need them all, but we need some things to get completed
and that is my only hesitancy is that I don't see 20126 being completed in a long
time.
De Weerd: Just a follow up. Right now if we could get Franklin completed going
east west and get Chinden, it will take pressure and keep it off of the roads that
have multiple access onto it and again, I understand every road we have going
east west and north south have a regional significance to them, but right now
20126 seems to be the next logical one that will absolutely move traffic and not
get so stuck up in the urban traffic that it won't move traffic as efficiently as the
other corridors and I guess Franklin would be that next one that has the number
of section improvements that is the next one that would be ready as well. We
really should also check with Canyon County. I don't know where Ustick fits on
their plan, but I think Franklin and Chinden are higher on their priorities as well.
Bird: i~llr. Vice-President.
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I have got to agree with Councilman Rountree on that. I think Franklin to
me are the last priorities. I mean it only starts from over at Teak's Corner and
you don't even get through Nampa, let alone Caldwell where Ustick inaudible}
from the river all the way to Boise. Ustick has always been in my opinion, the
one that is in a major east west -- not that 20126 shouldn't be and isn't, but I
would like to see it in a better priority than fifth. 1 think it is definitely ahead of
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
October 23, 2007
Page 8 of 23
Franklin. I am not too sure if -~ the number one priority from Waltman to Chinden,
don't know if that has to be that high of a priority or not. We worry about north
and south, but we need to worry about east and west and until I-84 gets widened
and it is going to be years before that is being done because of the finances, but
would like to see Ustick up in one of the top three myself.
~Jt
Rountree: hllatt, again what is the drop dead date on comments?
Ellsworth: Mr. Vice-President, Members of the Council both CCM~ASS and
ACRD requested city responses by the 26th of this month. So it is coming up
here on us Friday and as far as the second list of projects is concerned, again, it
is -- with the STPTMA dollars, they have current projects they are working their
way through that funding mechanism right now for the next several years. This
list as received by COMPASS from constituent municipalities will be factored into
the 2013 STP update. So it is not coming down immediately in the next several
years. It is going to be for use further down the road.
Rountree: So the possibility somewhere between $30 and $40 million could be
accumulated in terms of federal aid on that particular project, if it can be
obligated somewhere inaudible}through the process?
Ellsworth: ~Mr. Vice-President, Members of the Council as I understand it and
Tony can correct me if I am wrong, but the dollars that will come into the area
between now and 2013 are already programmed for other projects. So starting
in 2013 C~~IPASS is going to shift to this carridor identification and begin
funding those at the corridor level and working them through that way. So
between now and then there wouldn't be any accumulation of un-programmed
federal funds.
Rountree: So at this point, Matt, with this priority list what will be done on these
projects? Completion of the initial design?
Ellsworth: Mr. Vice-President, Itllembers of the Council, that is a question that
has been tossed around a bit at our inaudible}and it comes down to the fact that
$5 to $6 million, when you are talking about a 15, 20 mile roadway segment is
not going to get you all that far. As I understand it the idea is to presumably start
in with that sort of preconstruction activity and just chip away at those corridors,
rather than peppering the district with smaller projects that are more within the
realm of possibility as far as that source of funds is - as far as that can take us.
De Weerd: Mr. Vice-President.
Rountree: Madame Mayor.
De weerd: Matt do we have to make a decision tonight?
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
October 23, 2001
Page 9 of 23
Ellsworth: Mr. Vice-President, Members of the Council, Madame 1U~ayor no. A
decision does not need to come forward on the second list this evening, so if this
is something that you would like for me to bring back to you in a week or two
wauld be happy to do so.
De Weerd: Mr. Vice-President, I guess I would like to see how these priorities ~-
if we are looking for an affective east west corridor and no one has it on their
priority list, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense as one of the top priorities if we
want to start connecting corridors. So what I would like to request is that you
contact Nampa and find out what their thoughts are. So whether it influences the
Council or not that they have that information so they know if we are out there
advocating for a road priority that won't be because no one else is trying to
connect to it yet.
Ellsworth: Mr. Vice-President, Madame IV~ayor, Members of the Council I would
be happy to do so and I can coordinate with COMPASS staff and staffs of
neighboring jurisdictions to see where the priorities lie for our neighbors and
report back to you next week or in two weeks or whatever would be appropriate
for you guys.
~~
Rountree: It would be two weeks. We aren't meeting next week so -- and I am
comfortable with that. David?
Zaremba: That is fine with me if that is okay with COMPASS if they don't hear
from us for two weeks.
Bird: Well, this is list two.
Rountree: This is the second list.
Bird: List one is what they need by the 26th and we agreed upon that, didn't we,
the one that was up here?
Rountree: Yeah we have already agreed with that one.
Zaremba: Well I am comfortable with both those answers.
Rountree: Matt, you will get us some information then on the 6th or -the 7th?
You might get us some information on the 6th too, I don't know - at least the
Mayor. Thank you.
Ellsworth: Thank you.
Rountree: Any further comments?
Bird: I have none.
Meridian City Pre-Council hrleeting
October 23, 2001
Page 10 of 23
Zaremba: 4n that side subject, Mr. Vice-President just to confirm -because
Tuesday the 6th our normal meeting date is an election date, our meetin moves
9
to Wednesday, is that correct?
Rountree: That is correct.
Item 4. GARVEE Presentation:
Friedman: Just briefly. Mr. Vice-President, Madame Mayor and Members of the
Council representatives from the GARVEE office are here tonight to give you an
update on the program. This meeting is a follow up to the meeting that we had
with the Mayor last spring where we were discussing some of our concerns about
Ten Mile and how we could faster support for the GARVEE program and move it
into the future and out of that meeting there was a commitment by the GARVEE
office to meet with the city on a regular basis to update us on the status of the
program as it moves forward. So that is the purpose of tonight's meeting. I will
turn it over to them to give the presentation to the Council,
Rountree: Thank you, Pete. Nester are you going to kick this off? And thank
you all for coming this evening from the GARVEE office and Board Member
McClure, District Engineer Jones. Thank you.
Fernandez: Vice-President, Mayor and Council Members I wanted to introduce
myself. My name is Nester Fernandez. I am the GARVEE program
Administrator with the Idaho Transportation Department. f am going to try to fill
inaudible} - I think he is late due to traffic, so bare with me as he was preparing
this and has all of the information. A couple of things that I want to let you know.
Last month the Idaho Transportation Department made a presentation to the
Board regarding the upcoming request to the legislature. That one is about $134
million that we are going to proceed for next year's legislature and I want to give
you an update on in general what the projects are and what are we looking as
what is going to be funded with the next request. We have a regional called the
inaudible}that has been approved by the legislature in the last year and the year
before. ~f course we are talking about north Idaho probably. We are not
touching every single one. I want to just let you know that we are talking about
Highway 16 and I-84, Caldwell to Meridian corridor in the inaudible-}. If you
want me to I can probably expand to talk a little bit about the GARVEE and the
inaudible}, but pretty much the presentation is going to be on the Valley
corridors. The first one that I have here is for the corridor 16; everybody has
heard about that. Right now we have about inaudible--~ $4.2 million right now
that we have allocated the current bonding. As you may know about a year ago,
the legislature inaudible} $100 million for bonding. We have sold those bonds.
They were done last year in Rllay. This year we have a inaudible} for $250
million. They want to proceed with that. At this point, we haven't sold any of the
bonds that have been approved by the legislature of this year. We will start
working on that ane, potentially the beginning of the year we were looking at the
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
October 23, 2001
Page 11 of 23
first issue of bonds out of the second inaudible}. On that part we have about
$4.2 million~Fallocated for dealing with environmental documentation and finish the
design. On that project we have allocated about $2. ~ million to buy some right-
of-way ~- this corridor, the section from the State Highway 44 all the way to I-84
corridor section. One thing that I wanted to let you know is we have some
information about Highway ~6 right now and we are in the process of the
environmental document and there is going to be a public information meeting
that is upcoming in November first. We got some information on the back of the
table for you if you would like to take and obtain and would like to hear your
comments on that one. We have additional funding that is going to be requested
in the future. Right now we are looking at the future inaudible} about $96.6
million needed. This additional funding would complete the right-of-way
purchases for the section between Highway 44 in US 20126 and will finish the
final design and inaudible} the construction of that project between that section.
There is nothing on the GARVEE program right now that has been projected or
on the program from this section of US 20126 to I-84. That section is the only
thing that have we have is complete environmental document and preliminary
engineering on that portion. Vice-President and Council Members don't hesitate
to ask any questions as we go along.
~~~
De Weerd: Mr. Vice-President. The GARVEE program does that only anticipate
this connection between Highway ~ 6 at State Highway 44 and to State Highway
20126 and does not connect then to I-84?
Fernandez: Mr. Vice-President, Mayor that is correct. Right now the GARVEE
program has only funding allocated if the program would be funded to the full
inaudible} million dollars. Right now it has only the construction between 44 and
US 20126.
De Weerd: But they are planning at least a corridor from 20126 to I-84?
Fernandez: That is correct. That is park of the environmental document and
preliminary engineering.
De Weerd: Okay, thank you.
Fernandez: In this corridor is the I-84 west Caldwell to Meridian corridor. This is
very popular. There is several projects that are going on this corridor right now.
We have right now inaudible--} the decision to complete the environmental and
the final design for the Garrity to Meridian - is a six mile section that we are
going to be working. We have funded right now $200 million to do the
preliminary engineering, environmental and final design of the Ten Mile
Interchange. We also on the approved operation of this past January - we had
about $8~.5 million for the construction of the section from Garrity to Meridian
construction of the overpasses at the Black Cat and Robinson overpass. What
this is going to complete is going to add a third lane on each direction between
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
October 23, 2001
Page 12 of 23
Garrity and 'Meridian -naturally there is going to be four lanes. we are going to
have the four lanes constructed at that time, but we won't be able to use it until
we have the environmental document completed and until the bridges are
replaced for the Black Cat and the Robinson. There is going to be one kind of
exception, the Ten Mile Interchange. There is no funding for construction, so
there is inaudible} restriction. Right now we have what we call a inaudible} to
be able to accommodate three lanes under the Ten ~Illile structure. we would be
able to construct four lanes, but we are going to have to be sure of the
Interchange to add the four lanes and that is going to have to be completed
under the construction of the Ten Mile to be able to add the four lanes because
right now the piers - inaudible--} and the two piers in the middle are right now
are in the way of the four lane.
De weerd: M~. Vice-President.
Rountree: Madame Mayor.
De weerd: 4n the overpass reconstruction with Black Cat and Robinson what
are they going to be improved to? Are they looking at the future width of that
corridor? Haw wide are they going to be?
Fernandez: Vice-President and Il~ayor at this point those bridges the Robinson
and the Black Cat will replace in inaudible} the same - it would be again, two
lanes. There would be the inaudible} with one pier in the middle, of course to
accommodate the four lanes, but the bridges are going to be designed that in the
way in the future if there is any kind of expansion that needs to be done along
that corridor those bridges can be expanded. But, right now it is going to be just
as presented with two lane per bridge -one each direction.
De weerd: But they wilt be designed to widen?
Fernandez: Yes, if in the future there is a need to widen those bridges there
would be the opportunity at that time.
Rountree: I don't know if it is "if', but more of a matter of "when"?
Zaremba: Mr. Vice-President and along with what Madame Mayor added, my
concern would be whether it is cost effective to build them to two lanes when it is
pretty sure that pretty soon they are going to need to be four lanes and certainly
well within their lifetime there will need to be four lanes and I don't know the cost
differences between building them as four lanes now or adding two more lanes
ten years from now. It would seem to me more efficient to do them now and
cheaper in the long run, It is not cheaper today, but ten years from now we
would look back and say that was the right thing to do.
Meridian City Pre-Council 14~eeting
October 23, 2007
Page 13 of 23
Fernandez: Mr. Vice-President, Council Member 1 agree with you. l think it
would be wise to go ahead and build the structures to accommodate four lanes
right now. Right now the GARVEE program really has a limit of funds. We have
approved by the Board $998 million. Some of the corridors would accomplish
some work and we have to really actually kind inaudible--} on each one of the
corridors. So with the limited funding that we have right now, we have got to be
able to go ahead and inaudible--}. The advantage of doing that right now is that
we are going to be able to accommodate the four lanes each direction on the
Interstate. I think that is the advantage and that is where we are looking right
now and be able to da that so we can utilize the Interstate route. I agree it would
be wise to go ahead and inaudible} those; unfortunately funding wise we don't
have that at this point underthe GARVEE program.
Zaremba: I was going to say that I do at least appreciate what you said earlier
that you are designing them so that adding two more lanes would be cheaper
than if we didn't consider that. I still see it as more expensive than doing it now,
but I do appreciate that the design is intended forthe additions.
Fernandez: One of the things that I probably want to talk about on these is of
course the Eagle Road off ramp. You have seen that off ramp already built. It is
open to the public. I think you can see how much help has gone to the Interstate
and actually also a portion of Eagle Road to be able to complete that. If you
have driven through that, it really is a two lane off ramp. Once you get to the top
of the ramp there is four lanes; two left turns and two right turns. That is
something that l think we are happy that it has happened and it is moving along.
Another project that we are working right now is on the Franklin Interchange in
Nampa. That will be constructed inaudible}the other half of the bridge. We built
the first half, I believe in 1999 was constructed with this funding and ~inaudibie--}
we will go ahead and design and construct the second half of the Franklin
Interchange in Nampa. Also we have funding right now out of this inaudible--} to
proceed with the final design of the section between Garrity and Franklin. What
is going to be is that we are going to be able to add a third lane between Garrity
and Franklin, So the ultimate that you would see out of the program would be
that we would have four lanes each direction pretty much from ~Ileridian all the
way to Garrity and at Garrity it would go from four to three lanes each direction
inaudible} Franklin it would be into two lanes all the way to Caldwell right now.
We are working also on the environmental document for the whole corridor that
would help us to be able to utilize the four lanes once the environmental
document is clear and that environmental is covered from the Karcher
Interchange all the way to about the Five h~lile Road section and we are working
on that one. There is going to be a public information meeting on that
environmental document on November 6th, so we also encourage if you could
attend to participate on that one, we would appreciate that. One more thing
inaudible--} is one I want to point out on the kind of maroon color - as you can
see that is the construction of the Ten Mile Interchange. That is one of the
requests that is coming for next year's legislation -- $60.9 million to construct the
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
October 23, 2007
Page 14 of 23
Ten Mile Interchange and we are going to talk more about that. A couple of
photos and sometimes I think that a picture is worth a thousand words. So, we
have a section of the Eagle off ramp. As you can see the work that we are doing
this past spring and summer. This is kind of the final picture. How does it look
Pike? It really has helped the traffic in that section. I drive everyday from Boise to
Nampa and I want to tell you that section gets pretty easy. A little bit of the
congestion might be when there is the bottleneck going from three lanes into two
lanes at Meridian. This is another shot of the Eagle off ramp to show you how it
looks like. It really gave a lot of enhancement to that area by bringing the lane all
the way almost to the canal. So, really traffic is kind of starting to pull out to the
right as soon as they pass the canal. Capacity wise it has improved a lot for the
lnterchange. The last section 1 want to talk about in the Valley is the I-84 East,
the Orchard lnterchange to the Isaacs -- they call it inaudible} too, so 1 can use
those at the same time. Right now we have -well one thing that I want to talk
about is that we are already on their construction on this section of Broadway to
Eisman. Right now we are resurfacing the existing pavement. We are doing a
kind of crack and inaudible}. At this point, we come with the concrete and we
have a crack and inaudible} and then we come with a level which we call the
inaudible} level. It is kind of a leveling course that we use and then combine
with a plan mix overlay. That is really going to improve the riding on that section;
safety especially. I don't know if you have driven that section going east, but it is
going to be inaudible} and Western Construction is doing that project. They say
the potential that they are going to be finished inaudible--} of overlay these by
the end of this year prior to the end of the year and they are going to come back
next spring and just finalize the third layer inaudible--} and completing that one.
Also we are right now working on - bringing a consultant on board to start the
design of the Orchard Interchange and the Vista lnterchange. We have already
two firms t~at~ are on the process to negotiate and start the design on that
portion. Right now part of the plan would be inaudible} we are going to do the
final design in Broadway between Orchard all the way to Broadway - we are
going to be working on the final design and inaudible--}, ~lnaudible--}. We are
working right now on the inaudible} on the north side of the Interstate between
Orchard all of the way to Broadway. That project we expect it to go to
construction next spring of 2009.
(Tape turned over)
Fernandez: -- environmental document and we are just waiting for the
inaudible} of an environmental document and then we can proceed to finalize
the design on that one. One thing that I mentioned on this one is in maroon--are
the next request and we are asking for $40 million and that would be for right-of-
way and construction of the Orchard Interchange. If yQu look at the Vista, we will
be asking for additional funding to buy and complete the purchase of the right-of-
way on the Vista lnterchange. On this plan right now -
De Weerd: Mr. Vice-President.
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
October 23, 2007
Page 15 of 23
Rountree: Madame 'Mayor.
De Weerd: I am sorry to interrupt you. !don't mean this as a parochial
comment, but in looking at rebuilding some of those interchanges on the east
side, what are their traffic numbers compared to Meridian Road and why are they
being rebuilt before Meridian Interchange is built?
Fernandez: Mr. Vice-President and ~Illayor. I don't have that information with me
to actually give you an accurate as to what is the capacity of each one of the
interchanges verses the Meridian - I would be willing to provide you with that
information, but from the top of my head I cannot remember right now and 1 don't
want to mislead you.
De ~IlJeerd: I appreciate good information. So, I can wait.
Fernandez: Yes, I want to give you the right and accurate information.
Bird: Mr. Vice-President.
Rountree: l~1r. Bird.
Bird: Mr. Fernandez on that Broadway to Ivy Canyon, the redo which is going to
be two layers, of overlay as I understand -you are going to float something on
top of the existing and then put another overlay on top of that once it levels out?
Is that -how many years are we going to get out of that? fs there any kind of
guarantee or--?
Fernandez: Yes, the estimate of life right now will be inaudible--}. As we work
with the development of -- Mr. Vice-President, Council Members, sorry about that
- as we move into the design and one of the sections, one of the portions of the
design is look at the materials before, which is the actual pavement design and
looking at the pavement design we are coming with actually three layers of
asphalt. There are two layers that are being put together right now and then we
are going to come out with a third one. Right now the life cycle cost on the base
report is about twenty years that we are going to get out of that section of the
construction of the pavement.
Bird: The roughness and stuff is going to be guaranteed if it isn't going to
conform to all of the upheavals and stuff that is in the existing concrete? I don't
know-what are we talking about, six inches of overlay ortwo inches?
Fernandez: I believe it is about seven inches of overlay.
Bird: And inaudible--}?
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
October 23, 2001
Page 1 fi of 23
Fernandez: Mr. Vice-President, Council Members maybe I want to use
inaudible} the District Engineer, Dave Jones and maybe he might have a more
detail of information.
Jones: Mr. Vice-President, ~4embers of the Council, Mayor. That is going to be
six inches. The design, which we believe our consulting engineering firm is
staking their reputation on that design, tells us that that will give us twenty years.
It is six inches. V`le basically put a bind breaker between the concrete and the
asphalt and by breaking it up the design tells us that that road will survive. Now
the question is a valid one and it is a question that we in the District have had,
but like every project we do in this district when the engineering services that we
hire tell us that that is what is going to happen and then we give them the benefit
of the doubt. It has been reviewed by our headquarters materials section. They
have concurred with that design so we have every belief that we will get 20 years
out of it. That may not mean that I don't have to go back out and chip seal it or
maybe do a little grinding here and there. It is not going to be a reconstruction,
Councilman Bird. It isthe best we could do.
Bird: I understand that. Anything is better than what it is out there now. The
dentist might argue because it is pretty good when all of your fillings fall out of
your teeth. I understand where you are going. I just have got some real
concerns of doing a temporary patch or something because I don't think there is
probably any roads in this state that gets any heavier traffic than that road does.
Jones: Mr. Vice-President, Council Members and Mayor, the same process has
been used on I-90 in Northern Idaho and we have had pretty good success with
that up there in the Coeur d'Alene area. It isn't perfect. It isn't a reconstruction,
but we anticipate that the 20 year life is a fairly reasonable statement and based
on other uses across the state.
Bird: Thank you very much.
Fernandez: Again, one of the things that is going to be needed is additional
funding in order to complete this corridor is we are going ~o need future funding
to construct the third lane, potentially four lane I think is going to be between
orchard all the way to Broadway. That has to be funded with additional funding
and will depend on the legislature inaudible--} as we move along on that one.
One thing that I want to point on this map and in black you see these
environmental by ITD. The Department has been working on the environmental
document on this section and that is being paved with the regular formula at this
point.
Inaudible discussion}
Fernandez: A couple of pictures from this section from Broadway to Eisman.
This is one of the equipment that they use to go ahead and break the actual
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
October 23, 2001
Page 17 of 23
concrete. The go over and start breaking it in little pieces, like I mentioned
before they come by with kind of a layer like SALSA, the kind of chips they put
inaudible--} Mexican restaurant. Maybe Dave can tell us what the SALSA
stands for; l think its stabilize, absorbent, layer and strictly asphalt. There we go.
This is just a shot of one to see how we are working over there right now. You
can see on the right side of the picture you can see the SALSA and on the other
side you can see the overlay already being worked. Again, UVestern
Construction is moving real quick into getting this project at least to two levels
this year. Another shot just to give you inaudible} a picture of the work. We are
very happy to see that is going to be open for smooth riding for this winter on that
section. We are looking at this one right here, west -from the Eisman, Canyon
interchange. This just kind of summarizes what the Idaho Transportation Board
approved last month. This is the 2009 plan inaudible} request, which include
again the I-84 Caldwell to Meridian for $61 million. That would include the
construction of the Ten chile Interchange. Again, it is expected to begin
construction in 2009. The orchard to inaudible} Canyon would be $47 million.
Again it would be right-of-way for the orchard and Vista Interchange, plus
construction of the orchard Interchange at that point. The last one would be the
US 30 inaudible} to Soda Springs, $26 million. That would be to construct the
inaudible} bridges section that we have right now. The designer right now is
working with the railroad company and to make sure that we can go ahead and
expedite that. If something happened we might be able to trade the construction
of that bridge early if we can acquire the permits with the railroad company. This
is just a quick picture about the bonding and how we look at the GARVEE
transportation program put together. As I said, we have the $200 million for
about $13 million that we anticipate to be in interest of $213. we just have the
authorization of $250 million for a total of $463 million. You can see the $463
right now kind of on top of the bar -you know we have the green and blue, kind
of brown and yellow colors. Again in this next year, authorization request will be
about $134 million that we would be looking at. Future funding would have to be
needed to complete the program -that would be $299 that would be for FY10
and then we will go up to the next year with about $102 and that is kind of the
plan. This is kind of the projections on the commitment or contract commitment -
that is actually .the amount of money - if you can see the kind of dark area and a
solid line -that is the actual commitment that we have right now in contracts and
then we can see the forecast as we move along into that one. The other line
right here is the actual expenditures that we have -again at the beginning we
inaudible} actual expenditures - we have about $52 million - or $55 million
expended at this time. VIJe estimated about - to continue the expenditures, the
forecast -one thing that I want to bring this one is a question about how come
there is a difference with that one and one of the things that we need -the
commitment is one thing is that we have a contract for construction of the sign.
That contract might have a two year's life, so cash wise would not go equally as
the commitment. So I think it is something that I would like to just bring why is it
different between the forecast for cash flow, which is the actual expenditure
verses the commitment.
Meridian City Pre-Council i~leeting
October 23, 20Q1
Page ~8 of 23
Bird: ~Ilr. Vice-President.
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Mr. Fernandez, on your spending 1 just have a question here. Does that
include your engineering fee and everything because I am sure at this point the
majority of your funds have been spent for engineering and upfront costs and is
that included in that or is that actually to the pavement money?
Fernandez: Mr. Vice-President, Council Member Bird that cost right now
includes all costs in the project from engineering, program management to
construction. That is the actual expenditure at this point. Dave do you
remember how much is committed at this point? Was it $l2 million? Okay, yes.
Dave would you like to address anything else here?
Jones: Yes, members of the Council, sorry 1 was late, but of that $55 million
about $30 million of that is construction stuff. $15 million on inaudible} North;
$12 million on US 30, southeastern part and Eagle off ramp was $2.4 million and
then out of that $55 million about $1 million had been expended an that I-84
Broadway to Isaacs; that was just after they got started so this next month they
probably spent $8 or $9 million getting that asphalt down. That will go up quickly.
Bird: Thank you.
Fernandez: Mr. Vice-President, Council Members and 1~layor this has pretty
concluded the presentation and I would like to open it for any other questions that
you may have.
Rountree: Any questions Council, Mayor?
Bird: Answered most of mine.
Zaremba: hllr. Vice-President.
Rountree: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I would just comment that it is very helpful for us to have actual
information from the source as opposed to going on rumors and speculation and
I very much appreciate that you have come to tell us what is going on and how
this works. That is very helpful to me. I believe I am speaking for all of us, we
have begun to understand that the transportation agencies that are working for
us, ITD and ACRD and Valley Regional Transit here locally, we can't leave you
guys out there to stand alone. When you are pushing for things that we need;
that we need to be right next to you saying yes this is right and when it is
assumed that the legislature wil! probably question doing GARVEE again the
Mayor has offered and I believe we all agree with that to stand right next to you
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
October 23, 2001
Page 7 9 of 23
as you make that request because they are important not only to us but to our
region and we feel that this is an important region of the state that helps the
whole rest of the state as well. we understand there are needs alf over the state
and we are not necessarily trying to make ourselves special, but I appreciate that
we are having now two way communications and I for one appreciate this
presentation and you bringing it to us.
Fernandez: Mr. Vice-President, Council Member I appreciate your comments.
Thank you very much and I also want to thank you for the opportunity to present
to you and I appreciate the opportunity to comment to present to you to give you
information about the GARVEE program. VIJe are going to make sure that we
can continue these updates as we move into the program. One thing that maybe
I would want to ask of Board Member 1111cClure to see if he would like to have
something to add or comment on the GARVEE program?
McClure: ~11r. Vice-President, Council and Mayor the onl comment that I would
Y
make is to follow up on Councilman Zaremba's comment. We on the Board
really appreciate the support that we are getting from you, in particular because
you are one of the first ones to step up in support. It was getting kind of lonely
when you looked over your shoulder and there was nobody back there. Now we
are getting our network. You know that commercial on T.V. I have got my
network? It is growing and people are starting to understand the funding
problems that the Transportation Department has and we are starting to get
support and the quicker we get that support from your level of government the
quicker the guys downtown, the legislature will understand that there is a serious
problem out there that needs to be fixed. One graph that Nester didn't put up
there that I redly like and it is a pi graph that shows all of the years of the
GARVEE program and where the money is spent in those years. In the first two
years the money is alf -not all, but a big piece of the pie is being spent for
design and right-of way and those kinds of things as we go out through the
program. That gets down to a tiny little slice that is just administration. That
really graphically to me shows what we have been doing for two years and what
it will look like when it gets into the last three years of the program. That is one
of the questions the legislators are going to ask us. we have given you $450
million and you have only spent $55; by legislature time I hope that that is
considerably higher and it will be, but still it is going to be an issue and I think this
graph will really help that.
De Vlleerd: Mr. Vice-President I just want to comment on your first to stand and
support and we will be the last to fall, too. VUe are here for the duration and I
appreciate this piece of your story, but I think we do need to be able to better tell
your story and I think I have said that before. If you can provide the communities
that support you, as they turn in their resolutions of support you have returned
your story to them so they can be telling it to their legislators. But, I would also
like to thank your team because I realize that keeping the Ten Mile Interchange
on track has been something that people have had to work diligently to do and
~Ileridian City Pre-Council Meeting
Qctober 23, 2007
Page 20 of 23
we do appreciate that and you know we have been vigilant in watching it, but
again, that is part of our job. But, we do want to support you through this
upcoming session and if you know more effective ways that we can do so, please
let us know.
McClure: Thank you very much.
Bird: Monty I think and I am sure that the legislature gets hit the same as
everyone of us -you know, we have got GARVEE to the tune of $2oa million
right that first year and we are not seeing nothing done. Where is the money
going? Pi charts like that need to get out to the public because a lot of people
that is not in construction do not realize that your upfront costs, you incur them
right off the start and construction isn't going to come right after the bonds are
out. But, I think that would help with the legislature, too, because l am sure they
are getting these same questions of how come we are not seeing pavement on
the ground?
McClure: Mr. Vice-President and Council this series of charts that Dave and
Nester put together, the ones you saw previously and this one are really very
story telling charts. I really like those. I really was proud of the way they put
those together. There is another series that shows on each corridor exactly what
years the money is going to be spent for what and out of which bond
authorization that money is coming and those are nice too. But, they are a little
bit busier and a little bit harder to understand. These you can look at that and in
3o seconds you have got a picture.
Rountree: I have a question and it relates to the pi charts and the comment that
you made and some other observations, but you have issued the $200 million
worth of bonds and have, what about $144 or $155 million obligated with the
remainder? Hopefully obligated soon and this is purely speculation, but I agree
that it has been a hard sell, not just the GARVEE program but getting the
GARVEE program talked about was a hard sell. As you go into the legislature
this year and potentially don't have all of that first bond obligated and haven't yet
started or yet issued the second group of bonds is there going to be - do you
sense some hesitancy, even more hesitancy or more excuses that well maybe
we will think about this next year and we will get out of town early? Is that
something that the Board is fearful with and if so how can we help come up with
a story ~br how are you coming up with a story to address that because to me that
is a big issue?
McClure: Mr. Vice-President, Members of the Council you are absolutely right
and we are fearful of that. We are developing and I think these charts will go a
long ways towards showing that. The previous chart that showed -the bar chart
that showed the bond authorizations and the lines that went up to for the
commitment and the actual expenditure I think those are going to be invaluable
when we get to the legislature to tell that story because we on the Board will not
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
October 23, 2001
Page 21 of 23
authorize or commit to any expenditure of any money unless we have got that
money in the bank. So that, I think, if people will sit down long enough to think
about that and you see that you also have to have the money ahead of the
commitment just Pike you have to have the design and the right-of-way ahead of
the construction. I don't know other than to say that exactly how to answer your
question, but we are cognizant of that and it is going to be a problem. There is
no doubt in my mind that there is going to be a problem. But, I think we have
developed a story here that may be theywill understand.
De Weerd: Mr. Vice-President.
Rountree: Madame Mayor.
De Weerd: I guess what would be helpful for us to tell the story is and to answer
~Ilr. Bird's point that he brought up is if you had a chart or not a chart, but a list
showing the money that they have committed and almost project and a grouping
of how much that is allocated to do that particular project and where it is at in
spending it. They can go in and say okay, well in authorization two you said you
would be doing these things, but are those things on track, under way and ready
to spend that money? That is what I have told our legislators that in compiling
your list for this year's projects, you know that these projects are projects that are
on track and that they will be on track to use those funds with that allocation. But
it is hard to hear it and not see it. So if you could almost do an itemized billing
with associated timeline that helps them connect the dots and really that is what
we are trying to do. We are trying to connect the dots far them. That is all about
telling the story. ~.
McClure: Mr. Vice-President, Mayor and Council the data -Dave has all of the
data and I think he can probably fill the room full of charts. We can build any kind
of chart that - I am sure that we can build any kind of chart that we need. Dave
do you want to speak to this I don't want to get you in trouble, either?
Jones: 'Madame Mayor I think what you are talking about is the other version of
instead of the maps, we have got it by month or year and whether it is designed
right away or construction and what projects and that kind of fills in those gaps.
can't remember if we left it on this PawerPoint or not, but we do have that and we
were just concerned that it was a little too detailed in its overview at this point.
De Weerd: Well if we could get a copy of that PowerPoint and that detail that
would be great.
McClure: Those charts are by corridor. So if you want to even break it down
further by project, for example, like Meridian to Garrity, Ten Mile I am sure you
can do that level of detail also. What I am saying is the data is there and we can
develop anything that makes it easierforyou to tell the story.
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
October 23, 2001
Page 22 of 23
Rountree: I guess to add to that, probably for Dave or for Monty, either one.
Don't forget your friends and the information that you heard at the last Board
meeting about the commitment that has been made at feast in our particular
instance on Ten hllile at the local level. There has been a lot of money spent. A
lot of priorities changed in order for that to happen at the local level. Everything
from a lot of money on planning to a lot of money on projects that are
programmed to a lot of money already spent on the ground. So, hopefully you
can factor that as yet another salient pint to make with the legislature that the
communities are behind this. They have committed funds. They have committed
priorities. They have committed plans. The development community has
committed to it. It is a work in progress and it is a partnership and they have to
come into play and make it happen.
McClure: Mr. Vice-President and Council that is absolutely right and I am sure
that Julie and the crew that does the lobbying up there will have all of that
information, but it also really helps when you guys are there telling the legislature
what you have spent; what you have done to make this whole transportation
system work, not just what we have done and what we know that you have done.
If you tell that same story, it goes a long ways as you well know.
Rountree: Any other comments, questions? Thank you all for coming out and
sharing an evening with us. I appreciate your camments and your information.
Anything we can do, call the Mayor.
Fernandez: Mr. Vice-President I want to leave some handouts for you to look at.
It is pretty good it summarizes kind of the whole Valley right here anc~gives great
information regarding the projects.
De Weerd: Dave, I want your cell phone number. It is not on your card.
Jones: My cell phone number?
De Weerd: Yeah. Isn't that a betterway of getting a hold of you?
Jones: Most of the time I have it off anyway, but you know where to find me.
Rountree: If there is na further business again thank you for being here, I would
accept a motion to adjourn.
Bird: So moved.
Zaremba: Second.
Rountree: Moved and seconded to adjourn the Pre-Council meeting. Ali those in
favor.
Meridian City Pre-Council Meting
October 23, 2001
Page 23 of 23
THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT. M~T14N CARRIED.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 6:54 P.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
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